Agenda 10/13/2020 Item # 2B (9/03/2020 Meeting Minutes)10/13/2020
COLLIER COUNTY
Board of County Commissioners
Item Number: 2.B
Item Summary: September 3, 2020 BCC - Special Meeting Mask Sunsetting Minutes
Meeting Date: 10/13/2020
Prepared by:
Title: Executive Secretary to County Manager – County Manager's Office
Name: MaryJo Brock
09/17/2020 8:31 AM
Submitted by:
Title: County Manager – County Manager's Office
Name: Leo E. Ochs
09/17/2020 8:31 AM
Approved By:
Review:
County Manager's Office Nick Casalanguida County Manager Review Completed 10/03/2020 12:12 PM
Board of County Commissioners MaryJo Brock Meeting Pending 10/13/2020 9:00 AM
2.B
Packet Pg. 16
September 3, 2020
Page 1
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, September 3, 2020
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 1:00 p.m., in SPECIAL
SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples,
Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Burt L. Saunders
Andy Solis
William L. McDaniel, Jr.
Donna Fiala
Penny Taylor
ALSO PRESENT:
Leo Ochs, County Manager
Nick Casalanguida, Deputy County Manager
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Crystal K. Kinzel, Clerk of the Circuit Court & Comptroller
Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations
September 3, 2020
Page 2
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ladies and gentlemen, the
meeting of the County Commission will please come to order.
I'm going to ask our County Manager if he would lead us in an
invocation, and then I'll ask Mr. McDaniel if he'll lead us in the
Pledge.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Be happy to.
Item #1
INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE - INVOCATION
GIVEN
MR. OCHS: Please rise.
Our Heavenly Father, we ask your blessings on these
proceedings and all who are gathered here today. We ask this, a
special blessing, on this Board of County Commissioners. Guide
them in their deliberations; grant them wisdom and vision to meet the
trials of this day and the days to come.
Bless us now as we undertake the business of Collier County
and its citizens and that our actions will serve the greater good of all
citizens and be acceptable in your sight.
These things we pray in your name. Amen.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: With me, ladies and
gentlemen.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Ochs, let's go ahead and set
the agenda, and we'll have a motion on that. I understand that you
have an add-on.
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And what I'd like to do -- and I'll
ask this as kind of a question for the Commission. One of the things
September 3, 2020
Page 3
we have to do, and I think it won't take but a few minutes, is the issue
of legal counsel for individual members. I'd like to dispose of that
issue first.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: That's a good idea.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And then we'll get into the update
from the Department of Health, and then we'll get into the add-on
item, and then we'll get into the issue of the order concerning the
wearing of masks.
MR. OCHS: Very good. That would be appreciated, sir.
And, Commissioners, and for the public's knowledge, we do
have one add-on item to today's agenda. It will be Item 2B on the
agenda. It's a recommendation to declare an emergency
procurement condition and to approve the purchase of a mobile
testing unit and future vaccination site for the use by the Collier
County Department of Public Health.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Without objection, then
we'll add that to the agenda, and we'll begin the proceedings.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Do you need a motion to --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If there's no objection, we can do
a motion. All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, I did want to make you aware we do
have some registered speakers on the legal representation item. We
have one in person and I think it's, like, 15 remotely. I'm efforting
September 3, 2020
Page 4
[sic] that number right now.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Fifteen on the legal issue?
MR. MILLER: Yes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Well --
MR. MILLER: And I'll go ahead and ask my Zoom captain to
try to communicate with them to confirm that is, in fact, what they
want to speak about.
Item #2A
EXECUTIVE ORDER 2020-06: EXTENDING EXECUTIVE
ORDER 2020-05, EMERGENCY EXECUTIVE ORDER OF THE
BCC OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, MANDATING THE
INDIVIDUALS WEAR A FACE COVERING IN PUBLIC IN
CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES – MOTION TO EXTEND UNTIL
OCTOBER 22, 2020 – APPROVED
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Let's start off, I guess,
Mr. Klatzkow, if you would kind of explain what the issue is and
why we need to proceed in that manner.
MR. KLATZKOW: As far as the legal representation goes?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, sir.
MR. KLATZKOW: I think it's healthy for people to have
disagreements with the Board as to policy. That's the essence of
democracy. It's very different, though, when a board makes a policy
decision that you disagree with to lash out in an act, in my opinion, of
vindictiveness, and sue those commissioners who made that decision.
I think that that strikes the core of democracy, and I think it needs to
be dealt with in as serious a manner as can be, quite frankly.
And I would strongly recommend that the Board hire outside
counsel at the county's expense for the three commissioners who
September 3, 2020
Page 5
were, in my opinion, wrongly brought into this lawsuit.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Any discussion from
the Commission before we go to the public comment?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. County Attorney?
MR. KLATZKOW: Sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: In your opinion, with regard
to the litigation, if there were no mandate, what is the validity of the
lawsuit against the Board and my colleagues?
MR. KLATZKOW: You mean if the Board were to decide to
withdraw the current order? That would be up to Mr. Oakes as to
whether or not he wanted to pursue the remedies that he might have
for the order while it existed.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct. And so with that
thought process, in the event that there were no mandate, what is the
potentiality of the continuance of the lawsuit and/or the necessity to
hire outside counsel?
MR. KLATZKOW: If the Board were to remove this, at that
point in time there would be less of a need for it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, the lawsuit -- in the lawsuit
there's a request for damages --
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- for a variety of different things.
So it's not just the setting aside of the order. So our -- if we set aside
the order, that does not end the lawsuit. There are several claims in
there dealing with damages.
MR. KLATZKOW: It would be up to Mr. Oakes to decide
whether or not he wanted to pursue this.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So my request will be to permit
September 3, 2020
Page 6
the Board to hire outside counsel in light of that. If the case is
dismissed, that will minimize that need.
Commissioner Taylor.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yeah. It's my understanding,
at least my experience within government, that where an officer of
the government, in this case it would be commissioners, act in sitting
in the chair of that government in a discussion that has been brought
before the Commission and have made a decision, that any suit that
arises from that would be covered by the taxpayer because they are
acting in the -- in their official duty as a commissioner.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's go ahead and get to the
public comment, then make a decision on the issue.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Say that again, please.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I said, let's go ahead and get to the
public comment so we can --
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, I have an update. It turns out it was
only one remote speaker who wanted to speak on this item, and at
this point she's not responding, so let me try the one registered in
person, and that's Steve Bracci. I don't see him in the room. He
might be in the hallway.
MR. OCHS: He's here.
MR. MILLER: And if you're online, Susan Trescott, you
would be our next speaker.
MR. BRACCI: Am I speaking from here or here or either?
MR. OCHS: You can speak.
MR. BRACCI: Okay. Good afternoon, Commissioners. My
name is Steve Bracci.
I'm speaking today as a private citizen, notwithstanding the fact
that I am also the attorney for Oakes Farms in the lawsuit.
I just want to point out that this resolution that the county's
relying upon to have attorneys be hired and attorney’s fees be paid
September 3, 2020
Page 7
for the specifically named individual defendant board members is a
bit heavy handed itself.
And sort of to counteract Mr. Klatzkow's narrative about how
it's the worst of the government to basically -- the worst of public
citizenry to file a lawsuit. Mr. Klatzkow, that's what this country is
all about. That's why we don't have rioting in the streets, or we
shouldn't have rioting in the streets, is to pursue your recourses
orderly in a court of law.
So to suggest that a private citizen facing a mandate that they
viscerally agree with -- disagree with, I should say, on a matter of
significant constitutional usurpation as in this case, something so
personal as to put a mask or a muzzle on individuals, covering their
facial expressions, covering their humanity and, frankly,
covering -- it's -- for you to characterize that the way you just did, it
needs to be put in proper perspective.
If you listen to this -- if you read this resolution that you guys
are relying on, it says that the reason you want to have counsel for
these folks -- and I'm not going to make issue of whether you hire
counsel for these folks or not, but it says here it's so as to allow them
as commissioners to conduct in the public interest while reducing the
threat, intimidation, and chilling effects on performance of official
duties created by potential personal liability for county
commissioners.
I want the public to know that the county commissioners feel
that filing a lawsuit against them when they go so far as
to -- Mr. Solis orchestrating a TDC meeting or Commissioner Taylor
suddenly a few days after voting no suddenly votes yes. I mean, I
don't know what intimidation or threats she may have been subject to
during those periods -- that period of time, but to suggest that Oakes
Farms and my client, Mr. Oakes, is somehow, you know, reducing to
threats or intimidation or chilling effect by filing a lawsuit in a court
September 3, 2020
Page 8
of law, that's egregious. This resolution that you're relying on is a
joke. It's been around since the 1990s, and it should be dispatched
with.
MR. KLATZKOW: And our Constitution's been around for
200 years, and I don't think you'd want to dispatch with that either.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh, gentlemen, let's --
MR. BRACCI: You're absolutely right, Mr. Klatzkow, and
that's why we're going to go to court, federal court, and have that
discussion.
So I would suggest again, repeating back to the comments that
you made at the beginning, they're completing out of line.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Bracci, thank you for your
comments.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, as it turns out, we have two
people registered for this item online. They both appear to be on.
Susan Trescott will be followed by Richard Conrath.
Ms. Trescott, are you there with us? Just a minute, sir. I may
have an audio issue on this computer. Give me just a second.
All right. Ms. Trescott, are you with us?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Trescott?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: All right. Mr. Conrath, Richard Conrath, are
you with us, sir?
(No response.)
MS. CONRATH: Hello.
MR. MILLER: Okay. Mr. Conrath, you have three minutes,
sir. Please begin.
MS. CONRATH: Actually, my name is Karen Conrath. I'm
taking my husband's spot. Can you hear me okay?
MR. MILLER: Yes, ma'am. Please. You have three minutes.
September 3, 2020
Page 9
Please begin.
MS. CONRATH: I won't take much longer.
I just find it really appalling that people like Mr. Oakes and
his -- and his attorney, who's not wearing a mask, in fact, would stand
there and blame commissioners for a job that they're supposed to be
doing in order -- in order to help our people who are staying at home
left to their own device unable to go anywhere, that they would then
come and sue these very people.
If every time Mr. Oakes decided that something did not go
toward the way he likes it and he would sue, I think this is a scary
country. And it's very important for us, the people standing behind
the county commissioners, to make our voices heard. It's absolutely
imperative that the county and the taxpayers pay for the bravery and
the loyalty of these three county commissioners. And I thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you,
Ms. Conrath.
Any other speakers?
MR. MILLER: Yeah. Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry, the people
that registered online are now joining online. We have Barbara
Goldenziel or Goldenziel (pronunciation), and she'll be followed by
Judith Belmont.
Barbara, are you with us?
MS. GOLDENZIEL: Yes, I am.
MR. MILLER: You have three minutes, ma'am. Please begin.
MS. GOLDENZIEL: Well, first of all, I want to thank you for
the opportunity to express myself.
I believe that Commissioner [sic] Oakes was totally out of the
line at the initial meeting which, unfortunately, I did not speak, and I
believe that Commissioner Solis and some of our other
commissioners have really made our case to help protect the citizens
of Collier County and the businesses of Collier County as well.
September 3, 2020
Page 10
I'm currently located in Nelson County in Virginia and want to
tell you that people take masking here very, very seriously and they
also -- not only do they take the masking seriously, but they take
commerce seriously and, therefore, the commerce here has continued.
So when you talk about having somebody like Andy [sic] Oakes
sue our other commissioners because our other commissioners have
protected both our lives and our commerce it is, as Karen said,
appalling and much more than appalling to us, okay.
To me it's a travesty of justice that you would use and abuse the
legal system the way he is trying to do that and, therefore, I feel that
as citizens we must protect the commissioners who have done their
job to protect us.
Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Judith Belmont, and after
that we'll try Susan Trescott one more time. Judith Belmont, are you
with us, ma'am?
MS. BELMONT: Yes, I am.
MR. MILLER: You have three minutes, ma'am. Please begin.
MS. BELMONT: I just want to actually support what Barb
Goldenziel and Karen Conrath said. I respect the three
commissioners that are standing up for what is the public safety and
science and sensibility. And people who cannot leave their home
because they're too afraid of people who are inconsiderate to others
so worried about their own personal rights that they don't mind
harming others. They are standing up for us.
And I really think it is a travesty, I agree with Barb, that Alfie
Oakes and his lawyer are so belligerent about this that the
commissioners are basically standing up for our public health and our
human rights. And I think it really is disgraceful the kind of
behavior that Alfie Oakes and his lawyer has shown in these
September 3, 2020
Page 11
hearings, and it really makes me very sad that our fellow Americans
are not really in this together.
I know that there's this saying "we're all in it together." I don't
feel like I'm in it together with people who are these anti-maskers,
particularly ones who are going to sue commissioners because they
are trying to protect their citizens. I think it's really disgraceful.
And thank you to the three commissioners that are really trying
to help keep us safe. I am coming back from New Jersey that is
mask mandated everywhere. It's absolutely wonderful. And I'm a
little afraid next month of coming back to Florida, but I am a resident
in Collier County. And I would really appreciate the mask mandates
being continued as well as the commissioners not having to hassle
with such frivolous lawsuits. But I do support using public money
for it. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chair, we're going to try Susan Trescott
online one more time, and then I'm told Mr. Oakes actually wanted to
speak on this item. His slip says mask mandate. So, we'll have him
after Ms. Trescott.
Ms. Trescott, are you with us, ma'am?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: Ms. Trescott, last call.
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: All right. Apparently, we're having an issue
with her, so we'll move on to our final registered speaker for this
item, Alfie Oakes.
MR. OCHS: Is he remote? Okay.
MR. OAKES: Okay. How's everyone doing today?
First of all, I'd like to say that I heard the word "vindictiveness."
There is not an -- not a shred of vindictiveness in my heart for any
one of you sitting up there. It's a lot of work to be on the
September 3, 2020
Page 12
Commission, and I applaud every one of you for the job that you do.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Will you take the signs down then
where you're calling us socialists and communists? If that's not
vindictive, I'm not sure what is. Don't count that towards his time.
That's a rhetorical question. I'm sorry.
MR. OAKES: I'm not vindictive against socialists.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Go ahead and start his timer.
You've got three minutes.
MR. OAKES: Okay. Yeah, so I'm not vindictive against
socialists or anybody, actually. I think that we are all -- we are all of
a spiritual nature in whatever body we are. It doesn't matter what
your political affiliation is, and I love everybody.
Honestly, if I saw Andy or Penny -- and I swear to this on my
children. If I see you on the side of the road in the rain with a flat
tire, I'm going to stop and help you. There's no vindictiveness.
There's no hatred in my heart for anyone. It's just a difference of the
way that we see our country moving forward.
I don't want to see our country moving forward with socialism.
Many people in this country do. That's -- look at what's going on
here. Are you acting like you're in a bubble? Do you not see what
the left is coming -- with what's going on here?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: The issue is whether or not we're
hiring legal counsel. If --
MR. OAKES: Yeah, yeah, okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- you could comment on that
issue. You'll have an opportunity to talk about the mask.
MR. OAKES: You know, I think that that -- you know, my
belief in suing everyone personally is because I think that you're
personally infringing on the rights that I was given.
The Second Amendment actually affords us even greater
opportunity than -- that's the reason it was in place -- think about
September 3, 2020
Page 13
that -- to go against tyrants. I'm trying to do this through the legal
system the very -- the very -- you know, the easiest way that you
would ever try to resolve any situation. It's certainly not in a
malicious nature.
But when the tyrants start to come after us, we have to, as
citizens, fight back. And as my attorney said, we're trying to do it in
the very most respectful manner through the court of law.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Posters are a great respectful way
to handle it, I think. Just a comment.
MR. OAKES: Well, I've got a lot of really positive feedback
on them.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Sure, you have.
MR. OAKES: And believe me, I wish that we didn't have any
socialists in our country, but it's a free country, so.
Thanks everyone for their time.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Were you able to get
ahold of the other speaker?
MR. MILLER: No, sir, we have not. So that concludes all the
registered speakers for that item.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We'll close the public hearing.
Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: This -- it's kind of fun,
because I haven't been here. I just got here late yesterday afternoon,
and you're talking about signs and posters. I don't even know what
you're talking about, and don't tell me. I don't even want to know.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: You've got to see the poster
because it's funny.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: It's so much fun because it's an
absolutely fresh and unadulterated opinion. I'm just looking at
September 3, 2020
Page 14
things as commissioners. And we've given the -- been given right
or -- well, it is said that all of our bills, our legal bills should be paid
if we're working on behalf of the people in the community. Whether
I agree or disagree is not the point. The point is, that's what we're
supposed to be doing is paying for their legal fees, and I say that we
should move forward with that.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Is that a motion?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Mr. Klatzkow, in terms
of the motion itself, do we need anything else in terms of that motion
in terms of the legal counsel that we're looking to hire, or is it simply
we tell you at that point, and they're on board?
MR. KLATZKOW: No, sir. The motion is sufficient on its
own.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Any discussion on the
motion? Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. I have a procedural
question as well. And, again, are we acting on previous policy by
expending taxpayer money to hire independent counsel? Is there a
specific policy with regard to this, or is this just common practice?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: This is common practice, but I'll
ask Mr. Klatzkow --
MR. KLATZKOW: It is a Board resolution that authorizes
this, and in the time, I've been here, the Board has unanimously done
this both with commissioners who were sued and staff who were sued
during the conduct of their county business.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm having trouble. I'm
having trouble with it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And, Mr. McDaniel, I understand
you're having trouble with it. I just want to say one thing. You
September 3, 2020
Page 15
weren't sued in this matter, but there may be another item, another
time when you are, and that may change your attitude a little bit.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Potentially.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So, I'm suggesting that we're all
kind of in this political boat together. And we're not going to need
your vote.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, I can count noses right
now. I'm just -- I'm having trouble on the rationale that we're about
to expend more taxpayer money in defense against a lawsuit,
frivolous or not, when we could be spending our taxpayers' money in
a positive manner.
One of my requests today, sir, is to -- because after you passed
the mandate, Commissioner Saunders, after you passed the mandate,
then you made a motion to expend our taxpayers' money to reimburse
proprietors -- and I don't know if Alfie's sent in a bill for his sign or
not. But you made a motion to spend $25,000 to reimburse our
business community for that expense.
I would rather we take positive steps and not put good money
after bad. I would rather we try to do positive things for the overall
benefit and health of our community. And I am certain that, without
a mandate, or the lifting of the mandate, there's no reason to expend
the taxpayers' funds.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Taylor.
I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And, necessarily, I'm done.
I just -- I don't -- I'm really struggling with this. I understand the
pretense when we're acting in a public capacity trying to do the
government's work and so on and so forth and the rationale of hiring
independent counsel, but on the same token, it's --
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: What is it? I'm curious.
September 3, 2020
Page 16
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Rewarding bad behavior.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Commissioner Taylor.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No comment on that one. I'm
not going to even answer that one.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Any other comments
before we go to the vote?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All in favor of the motion, signify
by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let the record reflect that
Commissioner McDaniel has voted in the negative.
Mr. Ochs?
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir. That takes us to the presentation by the
Collier County Department of Public Health. Ms. Vick.
MS. VICK: Good afternoon.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good morning -- or good
afternoon, rather. I'm sorry.
MS. VICK: Yeah. We usually do it in the morning, huh?
I have a number of other speakers with me today. I have
Dr. Lindner and Dr. Quintero from the NCH. I have Dr. Bernard,
who is representing the Medical Society. I have Dr. Patton, who is
here from the School District. And I did have Scott Lowe, but he
had an urgent thing that came up, so I will be just communicating to
you a little bit of information later on that he sent.
So, I'd like to start out -- because we're here to talk about masks
September 3, 2020
Page 17
today. Hello? It doesn't want to go.
MR. MILLER: There you go.
MS. VICK: Okay. So just to start off with, right now as was
reported this morning, we have 11,853 cases total that have been
found since we began testing in Collier County. Of those, 105 are
nonresident. So, most of those are residents in the county.
We've had --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'm just asking. Is it mandated
you wear a mask -- I mean, you're not close to anybody -- when
you're talking? It would be so much easier to understand what
you're saying.
MS. VICK: I'll talk a little louder, okay?
We also have 180 resident deaths. Can you hear me better?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes.
MS. VICK: Okay. And we've had 651 cases in our
long-term-care facilities out of those 11,000-and-some cases, okay.
So, the chart that you have in front of is a rolling number,
average numbers of our cases since the end of March, early April.
And so you can see we had a huge number of cases start building.
Well, it started early June, but then it just started to go up and up and
up, and it peaked and started to come down just a little bit, but then
around the 25th of July, is that correct, is when we enacted the mask
order. And you can see that there was a significant decline since
then in number of cases that have been found.
The positivity rate over time has also followed the case rate in
that we had a large peak up around the end of June, beginning of
July, 4th of July, and then we started coming down a little bit, and
then we really started coming down towards the end of July and into
August.
So, here's the positivity rate since the mask mandate went in.
So, the mask mandate was July the 25th. The next time we did it, it
September 3, 2020
Page 18
was lower, 13.5 percent. The next time it was 12 percent. And, you
know, we wanted to stay under 10 percent. We kept shooting for
that target after we surpassed it, and we finally made it there towards
the end of August.
And as of the 29th, when we did this chart, the rate was 6.4. As
of yesterday, when we calculated the two-week rate, it was 6.1. It
continues to drop.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yesterday what? Say that again,
please.
MS. VICK: The positivity rate continues to drop. As of
yesterday, it was 6.1 percent. All right.
Hospitalizations of both hospital systems, you can see here how
it went over time from the end of March, early April, and then all the
way into July. Once our cases went up and once our positivity rate
went up, we also had a large number of admissions in the hospital.
So, I just wanted to show you recent numbers as far as the kind
of difference that we believe that the mask mandate has made. So
for a rolling two-week period -- and "rolling" means, you know, if I
go August 1st to August 14th and I do a rate. Well, the next time I
do August 7th to August 21st. So, there's always the end of the last
two-week period in the next two-week period. That's rolling, okay.
So, for August 9th to 22nd, we had 896 new cases. The
positivity rate was 7.9 percent. And the number of hospital
admissions overall for the county was 115.
For the 16th through the 29th, it was 627 new cases, 6.4
positivity rate, and 100 new admissions.
So, the percent change of new cases was 30 percent less,
19 percent less in the positivity rate, and 13 percent less in the
hospital admissions.
Now I'd like to have Dr. Lindner and Dr. Quintero speak. And
I would just ask if you could wait till the end of the presentations to
September 3, 2020
Page 19
ask questions. Okay.
Dr. Lindner.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: If the masks work, you don't
have to clean that.
MS. VICK: It's just extra precaution.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: So is being healthy.
DR. LINDNER: Good afternoon. I wish to thank Ms. Vick
and the County Commission again for their kind invitation back to
share our insights and data on masking today, and especially for the
County Commission for their leadership in this issue.
In way of introduction, my name is Dr. David Lindner. I am
the COVID medical director for the NCH Healthcare System, the
subdivision head, and an intensivist in pulmonary and critical care in
the ICU, an instructor of medicine for the Mayo School of Medicine
and associate professor of medicine in the University of Central
Florida and, also, we are engaged in active research with COVID-19.
From a masking perspective, today we are, again, engaged in a
discussion on masking. I'd like to bring you a very brief vignette
from history. In 1910, there was a severe outbreak of the bubonic
plague which carried over a 99 percent mortality rate. This was the
first time it was recognized that a virus could be spread by aerosol
droplets, the mode of transmission being very similar to which we
have in COVID-19.
The healthcare community, obviously, in 1910 was lacking the
technology and therapeutics that we have today, and they turned to
the physician who was leading the response and, in 1910, the initial
response was to proceed with masking, social distancing, hand
hygiene, and quarantining of active cases.
Using these basics of public health, essentially, the group which
was the foundation of what soon became international response to
healthcare crisises, including the W.H.O., as well as many of the
September 3, 2020
Page 20
organizations within our own county, basically eliminated the lethal
bubonic plague of 1910.
Dr. Wu subsequently then received the 1935 nomination for the
Nobel Prize in medicine. He did this for his scholarly work and
publications on masking.
Essentially, now we fast forward 110 years, and we are, again,
having the exact same debate for the same reason; that is, we have a
pandemic, albeit, of less lethality but, namely, it's because of the
inconvenience of wearing a mask despite its efficacy.
We at the NCH Healthcare System have engaged in active
research on this issue and have now submitted this research for
publication and peer review. This search was specifically -- and I'm
not sure how to advance slides. Does somebody do that?
MR. MILLER: Just a space bar.
DR. LINDNER: Space bar. Thank you. There we go.
So we'll -- having engaged in research on, basically, healthcare
providers, and the major difference between those of us who are
working in the healthcare facilities and those of the community is that
we are actually working within a COVID environment with that.
To gain perspective, New York University Langone published,
just in the last couple weeks, their data on this exact process showing
a 13.4 percent healthcare provider positivity rate. This occurred in
the absence of an initial mask mandate of staff-on-staff encounters, in
addition to the staff-on-patients.
And as was well publicized in the media, we all understand, and
with that, that there were many of those staff crying out for masks
and appropriate protective equipment with it.
Our data, which we are going to present with Dr. Quintero, with
the principal authors of Dr. Witherell, Dr. Gueery, Dr. Quintero, and
myself, show that masking led to a 1.1 percent transmission rate.
This was a significant difference in that of what was transpiring
September 3, 2020
Page 21
elsewhere.
My very simple message today is that masking works. To be
really effective, there needs to be a nearly 80 percent compliance.
We look forward to Dr. Bernard from the Collier County Medical
Society further review and presentation on this issue, but it is
important to note, and I wish to say that, I wear a mask to protect
you, you wear a mask to protect me.
I urge the Commission to review and renew the mask ordinance,
essentially, for the major and most important reason, not from the
lesson from history but from the lesson from our own data here, it is
working. It is protecting the population. It is allowing commerce
and our community to reengage in business and personal activity. It
avoids the need for a potential repeat shutdown. Places where it is
being relaxed across the world, we are seeing surges.
The key point is that this is for local control of our pandemic,
and it does and will save lives.
We're going to present our data, and then our colleagues from
the Collier County Medical Society will also present their
perspectives on this issue. And, obviously, at the end I will be
happy to entertain any further questions from the commission. And,
again, I want to thank you for your kind invocation and ability to
address you on this important matter. And I'm going to turn over the
presentation to Dr. Quintero, who will also present some of the
additional data.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Dr. Lindner, before you leave the
microphone, I want to thank you. There were a couple quotes in the
Naples Daily News, and I'm just going to read those; very short.
These are what you stated. When you were here the last time, NCH
was around 60 percent occupied with COVID patients, said Dr.
David Lindner, the COVID-19 medical director at NCH.
At this point in time we're around 22 to 25 percent occupied
September 3, 2020
Page 22
with COVID-19 patients. Dr. Lindner said that the decreased
hospitalizations directly correlates with the mask mandate passed by
Collier County Board of County Commissioners, even though it has
been described as bad behavior by one of our colleagues.
There are -- there are additional studies now that show that in
areas that have introduced a mask mandate, that you see almost a
2 percent reduction daily in COVID. So I want to thank you for
those comments.
DR. LINDNER: You're very welcome. I stated them because
I believe them to be true.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Ladies and gentlemen,
please, we don't have any comments coming from the audience.
You'll have an opportunity to speak if you'd like to.
DR. QUINTERO: Good afternoon and thank you for allowing
me to speak on behalf of NCH Healthcare System and over 600
physicians that I practice with.
My name is Carlos Quintero. I'm a resident of Naples for the
past 14 years. I'm the chief quality officer and department chair of
internal medicine at NCH Healthcare System as well as a practicing
physician that sees COVID patients daily.
First of all, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for the
prior mask mandate from July 21st and for caring about our
community.
We have seen significant improvements in our hospital statistics.
We have seen a decrease in COVID patients admitted, as you can see
by this graph that's here. We're down to 33 patients as of yesterday
from a maximum of 144 patients admitted at one time at both
campuses in the middle of July.
Positivity rates are also on the downtrend. Our seven-day
average is down to 4.36 percent when previously it was much higher,
meaning that out of 100 patients tested, only 4 percent were positive
September 3, 2020
Page 23
or four out of the 100. And this graph shows the steady decline
since July.
Our daily admissions are also down. Yesterday, over the past
24 hours, we only had one positive admission, one positive COVID
patient, out of the 100 admissions, and that's a good thing. We don't
want COVID patients in the hospital.
Our system established early on a mandatory mask policy. Due
to this policy in our system, we have protected our patients and our
colleagues. To date, we have never had a patient transmit COVID to
any other patient in the NCH facility despite thousands of patient and
staff member interactions. We have -- excuse me. We have only
ever had one employee get infected due to work-related exposure.
That's one over the entire pandemic early on in March before we
initiated this policy. We credit that exceptional statistic to
mask-wearing and other safety protocols we have in place.
We have shown at NCH that masks work. Personally, I wear a
mask all day at work and when I'm in public. Due to our mask
policies we've put in place at NCH, I feel just as safe or safer at work
than I do out in the community. By continuing the basics of social
distancing, hand washing and, perhaps, most importantly,
mask-wearing, we have made our community a much better place.
Our businesses are opening. Our schools just started where I have
three children. And we recently -- we're recently now getting back
to a new normal.
COVID will not go away any time soon, and the best we can do
for the health of our community is not to let our guard down and to
continue to social distance, practice good hand washing, and wear
masks whenever we're in public. By keeping our COVID numbers
as low as possible, we keep our community safe from this disease but
also from other diseases.
Nationwide, we have seen an increase in the severity of other
September 3, 2020
Page 24
ailments such as heart disease, strokes, and cancers. These patients
are afraid to seek medical attention in our hospitals because of the
high numbers of COVID patients.
If we as a community can keep our COVID numbers low, we as
a hospital system can keep up with the capacity of care for not just
our COVID-positive patients but for the thousands of other patients
with other diseases who are also sick. By doing so, our community
hospital will be able to continue to help the community live a longer,
happier, and healthy live.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
DR. QUINTERO: This last slide was just referring to
Dr. Lindner's statistics about our study. We had tested over 4,700
employees at the hospital over one month between May 23rd and
May 26th and July 3rd. Out of those 4,700 employees tested, only
56 of them had positive antibodies, so we know that protection in the
hospital works.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Taylor.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Doctor, just one question, this is
part of -- it was mentioned at the beginning you published a paper.
Is this -- this is what's --
DR. QUINTERO: This is the paper that we just submitted for
publication this week, yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Thank you very much. And
where can you read that paper?
DR. QUINTERO: Well, we submitted it to the Journal of
Hospital Infectious Disease. So as soon as it's -- as soon as we
publish it, we'll make sure we let everybody know.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Thank you very much.
DR. QUINTERO: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
September 3, 2020
Page 25
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And, first of all, thank
you for doing what you're doing. You're the ones that are on the line
every single day. I've applauded the leadership of NCH and their
capacity to be able to treat our public and allow people to feel safe
coming and taking care of their illnesses that they, in fact, have.
And, by all means, the practices within the hospital need to be
far more restrictive than anywhere else on the planet.
The question I have for you, Stephanie, is --
MS. VICK: Questions at the end. Not now.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I thought we were done.
MS. VICK: No. We've got three more -- two more speakers.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you can hold your question till
the end, that will be fine.
MS. VICK: Darn it anyway.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, I thought you were
done. Those were fine presentations.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's kind of move on.
Mr. McDaniel, if you need to ask a question, go ahead. If you can
wait, that's fine as well. So, it's up to you.
MS. VICK: Well, is it going to take a long time?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You know what, my -- it
won't take a long time.
MS. VICK: All right. Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Are you looking at any other
communities that don't have stay-at-home orders or mask mandates
and comparing those to what are currently going on in Collier
County?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. And just for the record,
we do not have a stay-at-home order --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I know we don't.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- in Collier County. But when
September 3, 2020
Page 26
you make the statement and ask the question, that could leave a
wrong impression with the public. So, I'm going to simply clarify:
We have a mask mandate. We do not have any other issues --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: That's right.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- dealing with COVID from this
commission.
Ms. Vick?
MS. VICK: And to answer your question, yes, we look, but no
we don't compare because every county is different. Every county
has different positivity rates, different demographics in their county
which affect, then, what happens with the population and how they
intermingle and all the things. So, we're concerned about what's
happening here in Collier County. Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No further questions.
MS. VICK: So, Scott Lowe, as I told you, was unable to come.
He had an emergency come up. But he wanted me to share this
information. And I wanted to be sure that you were hearing from
both of the hospital systems as well.
But he wanted you to know that in July they did a total of 1,896
COVID tests with people that came in, and 447 of them were
positive, and that gave them a 23.6 positivity rate.
In August they did 1,586 tests. One hundred sixty of them were
positive, and that gave them a 10.1 percent. So, it cut it
almost -- well, more than half.
And he said, we have seen a consistent decline in
COVID-positive in-patients across the healthcare system since the
high of 73 on July the 21st. Current census of COVID-positive
patients admitted across the two campuses is 23, with only three of
those being in the ICU. While there remains significant uncertainty
about the virus, the one common that is universally accepted by all
reputable healthcare systems is that masks reduce virus spread.
September 3, 2020
Page 27
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay.
MS. VICK: And now we'll hear from Dr. Rebekah Bernard.
DR. BERNARD: Hello. I'm Dr. Rebekah Bernard. I'm a
family physician, and I'm president of the Collier County Medical
Society. I'm here upon the request of Ms. Stephanie Vick. Thank
you for having us. And we are supporting the mask mandate.
We're asking for an extension for the next three months, and I'm
going to tell you why we're asking for that.
Of course, we know that masking is not the only strategy that is
necessary, but we know it's an important strategy, and the reality is
that masks protect others from droplets and that viral shedding can
occur before a person develops symptoms. This is what's so critical
to understand.
Yes, healthy people are not going to transmit the virus, but you
don't know at what point you're harboring an illness. Everyone has
had that experience where they felt great, and then all of a sudden
they start feeling very ill. You get a fever. You have a terrible sore
throat. Well, you are actually infectious about 12 hours before you
showed those symptoms. This is the point of wearing the mask.
We don't know when that's going to occur.
The other thing that's important to keep in mind is what I hear a
lot is that healthy people don't have to worry about this virus.
They're not dying from it. Well, the question is: What is the
definition of healthy? Well, one of the comorbidities is
hypertension. Fifty percent of all Americans have hypertension.
You feel that you're healthy. You say, I feel great. But guess what?
You're considered at higher risk simply because you have a diagnosis
of high blood pressure. Even if it's perfectly controlled.
A third of Americans are obese. That is an independent risk
factor for dying from COVID. So, this is the justification for
wearing a mask even if you feel that you're healthy and that you don't
September 3, 2020
Page 28
have any symptoms whatsoever.
Studies have shown that masks do reduce the risk of transferring
virus. It's been shown multiple times, including cloth masks.
Studies have shown that universal masking has declined the rates of
COVID-19 positivity and that states that have enacted mask
mandates have seen a decrease in COVID. JAMA just produced a
study a few weeks ago that said that there was an ethical justification
for the mandate of face coverings to prevent the transmission of
serious disease to the community.
A real-life study, two hair dressers in Missouri with COVID-19
positive and symptoms wore a mask while they treated their clients.
No cases were transferred to those clients, yet people that lived in the
home with the hair stylists did contract COVID-19. So real-life
studies showing that this is effective.
Here's the truth everyone. Masks will not lower your oxygen
levels. They will not raise your carbon dioxide levels.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Hold on just a second.
Ma'am, you'll have an opportunity to speak, but, please, we're
not going to have any shouting from the audience. And I'm going to
ask you one more time, please show some respect for the speakers,
and we'll show respect for you when you're up here, but no shouting
or communicating from the audience to the Board here.
DR. BERNARD: Thank you.
Masks will not lower your oxygen levels or raise your carbon
dioxide levels. It's just not a fact. They will not make you sicker
because you're re-breathing your own germs. That is untrue. And
they will not weaken your immune system and make it harder for you
to fight disease. Those are not truths.
Of course, you've seen this slide. These are just the rates of
COVID-19. But this is an important one, and this is the death rate in
Florida. It is starting to come down, but it's still there. Patients are
September 3, 2020
Page 29
dying every day in our state of COVID-19. This is not the time to
start to slack off on our protections that we need to take. People are
at risk. They feel healthy, and they think they're healthy, but it turns
out that they actually have a predisposing condition, something as
innocent as high blood pressure.
Just to point out, one criticism I've heard is that patients aren't
actually dying of COVID-19; that they're dying of other things. I
want to explain to everyone here that when physicians fill out a death
certificate, and I filled out many, we have to list the immediate cause
of death. So if a person has COVID-19, they get pneumonia from
some other -- bacterial pneumonia on top of that and they die, the
first thing we're going to write is that they died of pneumonia, but
below that we're going to write a contributing factor was COVID-19.
So when you hear it talked that 6 percent of people only had just
COVID, well, that doctor may not have even filled out the death
certificate right, because we wouldn't just write COVID-19 as the
cause of death. We would say they died of something else that was
caused by -- or COVID-19 was a predisposing factor.
Just to be aware of the symptoms, of course, because people
need to self-quarantine, and that's another very important factor in
reducing the spread of the disease. But, most importantly, we do
believe that the continued use of masks is helpful and will protect our
community.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ms. Vick, does that conclude
your --
MS. VICK: Certainly last, but not least, there's one other
person I would like you to hear from, and that is Dr. Kamela Patton
from the School District, so -- and then that will complete -- conclude
the presentation, and ask away.
DR. PATTON: So good afternoon, Chairman Saunders,
Commissioners, both the County and Deputy Manager.
September 3, 2020
Page 30
We're welcoming the opportunity to speak with you here today
on this very important topic. And let me say how very grateful we
are to the Department of Health. They've been on speed dial daily,
nightly, on weekends just over these last months making sure that we
develop a very comprehensive plan but simple so that kids can
follow, parents can follow. We're very grateful for them and the
colleagues that are all from the Department of Health.
Stephanie Vick, a big thanks to you personally, and then our
local medical professionals, all of whom you heard speak today, have
come together at different times to also help develop our plans. So
we thank them.
So we have more than 50 campuses, as you know. I've
personally been able to visit 18 between Monday, Tuesday, and
Wednesday. It's one thing to have a plan. It's another to be able to
go and actually see it in action. So we're very grateful to that.
It's been nice to have kids back on campus. The most important
thing we do is offer choice. Choice is a big-time word right now in
this community and these times so that parents can decide what's best
for their kids. We have parents that have split households. Some
come in person and some are at home virtually. So it's an interesting
time in the year.
So I know that you know that the school system's not included
in your definition of the businesses but, nevertheless, we very
carefully followed what we know are the guidelines for health and
safety and really made sure that we've put in play a mask and social
distancing that helps greatly reduce the transmission of both the
transmission and the positivity rates.
So, on this next slide you can see -- let me get to that. All right.
So, on campus we have 61 percent. You can see the picture on the
left. These are basically how a classroom would look with the kids
spread out, everybody facing forward with their masks on. And then
September 3, 2020
Page 31
on the right you can see its 39 percent virtual. So that nice little
young man is a kindergartener who his parent chose to start his first
day of his school career for 13 years at home. So, we joined little
Alex at his house. So that was a very unique time for us.
This next slide just shows you a few pictures of the first three
days of school and just a variety of shots from our little pre-K and
kindergarteners to the middle-aged kids, and then up to our high
schoolers with their orchestra classes all ready to go. All with -- you
see following our guidelines of wearing masks and social distancing,
again, to reduce the risks.
So, helping train our kids. You've heard a phrase here today
that we captured which is that we've taken different actions and
precautions with the idea of the best of safety and wellness in the
interest of our kids and created some messaging. So, this is one,
again, that my mask protects you, your mask protects me. And here
we're helping kids think of others first, right, in protecting other
people and then protecting me. Always working on kindness with
our kids.
Another message that we have out and, again, trying to keep it
as simple as we can for students, that COVID-19 stops with me.
And what does that mean? They look -- and we're asking them to
challenge themselves to say, am I practicing healthy habits at home,
at school, and in the community?
Children model behaviors from when they see what adults do.
There's no question to that. That's true in many aspects of life.
When they see Mom and Dad and what they do and what they see
other community members doing, like wearing masks, it does
reinforce and helps reinforce kids' messaging. That's why keeping
your emergency order in place will help us all.
We want you to be mindful, it isn't about what we did to get
schools open. It's about what we're continuing to do to keep them
September 3, 2020
Page 32
open, to keep kids learning, having that option of coming face to
face. I think, you know, that we have 55 percent of our kids that
come from homes where English is not the first language spoken.
That's about 30,000 kids. It's very tough for our kids to have to have
their parents try and be their actual teacher.
So, it's about keeping it open and also allowing our parents,
then, to get back out into the working world.
So, we elicit lots of different help, including our school mascots.
So up here on the top left is a high school's bears mascot in their
courtyard right across from some of our other elementary and middle
school mascots that are, again, trying to just help kids see things a
different way. And, again, it's that long-range goal that we have, and
that is to keep school open.
When we look and say we're very grateful for our community
that has a great trust in our schools and our district staff who's
intensely working to make sure that -- our student achievement, that
we've worked hard to rise from 33rd to tying for 5th in nine years, but
to keep that moving in these very unique times.
So, what we simply say, as we wind up, is to say thank you.
Thank you for doing your part to help reduce the risk of the
transmission as we teach our kids the limited -- to limit the spread of
the virus and that it's really a shared responsibility. It's not just our
kids and our employees, which make up 7,000 people in the
community. But it is a shared responsibility. So we say thank you.
Thank you for extending, hopefully, this emergency executive order
that can help to protect our entire community.
So thank you for your time and letting us have a moment to
share what's happening with the School District.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Congratulations on
how great a job you've done with the schools.
DR. PATTON: Thank you.
September 3, 2020
Page 33
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Both with the COVID-19, but
historically.
DR. PATTON: Well, it's a great community and everybody
helping in the same direction.
MR. OCHS: All right. Now is the time for questions.
MS. VICK: Right. That concludes the presentation.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I have a question. I don't see
anybody's light lit up. And I think this probably would go to
Dr. Lindner. And I may be wrong on that, so whoever is willing to
answer this.
The focus has been about the number of deaths. And we've had
180 deaths in Collier County. Quite frankly, I don't know if that's a
big number or a little number. It's hard to grasp just a number. It
sounds like a lot to me. But the question I have is, what about the
people that survive this? We've had, I think, approximately 1,000
hospitalizations, plus or minus.
MS. VICK: Yes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: What happens to those people that
get this disease, get sick, and survive?
DR. LINDNER: We're beginning to see a significant increase
in people with post-COVID complications. And I have -- and there's
now a term of these long players or long-termers. Of the five
COVID I have right now in the unit, I also have, unfortunately,
people who are hanging on there and have been there for sometimes
30-plus days. Several of these people are probably not going to
survive. Even though now, the COVID is no longer present, they are
dying from the complications of the disease.
The cardiologists are beginning to see people who may have
long-term cardiac effects. I'm having people come back, and we're
now beginning to wrestle with the problems on the long-term
pulmonary effects. We continue to see other long-term effects.
September 3, 2020
Page 34
The real problem is, in a disease that started in December of
2019, you are now asking, you know, whether or not we have the
expertise and knowledge of all of these processes and what-all we
need to do for them, and that is the -- the two big remaining questions
of COVID are what do we do with the people who have survived and
have long-term effects of this disease? That is going to be an area
that is going to evolve and take much work; and the second thing is,
how are we going to both process and implement a vaccination
strategy that will hopefully ultimately help us achieve a significant
immunity? Those two questions are going to be exceptionally
hot-button issues for all of us.
But, yes, we are seeing additional deaths. Once again, quoting
from New York, the big issue is is that actuarial data of deaths is well
studied. This is what allows insurance companies, obviously, to
cover you, because they have an idea of how many people in a
population are going to die.
What we are seeing right now is that during this epidemic, we
have seen an actual increase in non-COVID-related deaths. We have
no other explanation for this at this point in time other than the
pandemic is also causing the secondary deaths from either people not
seeking healthcare, which is the probably most likely, to other effects
to some of those people may have not been appropriately diagnosed.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner
McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And, you know, you
said it very well, Doc. I mean, you know, we went through a period
of time where we were discontinuing elective surgeries and elective
procedures, and there was an enormous part of our population
that -- and then fear-mongering came along the lines with the media
exemplifying the potentiality and the contagiousness and so on and so
forth where people -- you can't imagine the conversations that I had
September 3, 2020
Page 35
with folks that were fearful to take a loved one to the hospital
because they might catch the virus. And, again, as I said at the
beginning, the hospitals are some of the safest places, and you've
proven it with your data and your information of your employees.
It's some of the safest places we can actually go and not be fearful of
the virus.
Thank you. I don't have any questions for the doc. If
somebody else does -- does somebody else? Is somebody else lit up,
Mr. Chair?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, I'll --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: My question's for Stephanie.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Go ahead. You're up.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I just -- at your earliest
convenience, maybe by next week if you're coming back to give
another report to us, I do look at other municipalities. I do look at
other communities that have the stay-at-home orders, Mr. Chair. I
do look at those that have the mandates and don't, and I compare the
data that comes from them. And everyone is necessarily on the same
curve. Everyone is necessarily -- I mean, there's idiosyncrasies with
demographics and population and where the Health Department of
that particular community tests and where they don't test. I mean,
we alone in Collier County have tested 75,000, plus or minus. Yes?
MS. VICK: About that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right. And we're pushing
20,000 of those tests, necessarily, in Immokalee proper.
MS. VICK: Uh-hmm.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So, we've really done -- close
to 25 or 30 percent of the overall testing of a population of 360,000
people has been accomplished on less than 10 percent of our
population. So it can be managed based -- not on purpose but, I
mean -- and I really applaud -- by the way, our Health Department
September 3, 2020
Page 36
has done an amazing job helping with the education of our
population, providing for care, the wraparound services our County
Manager -- I don't want to take away from our senior staff and what
we've done, but it's just really important as you're looking at this data
that you don't just blindly look at the data that's put in front of you.
There is similar numbers. I get a report every single day from
the Healthcare Network in Lee County, or the Lee Health Systems. I
get a report from -- I don't want to say his name on the record,
because then everybody else will want to talk to him, too. But I get
a report from them every single day that talks about the total number
of hospitalizations, talks about the total number of people they have
in-patient they have under observation, talks about the total number
of people that they have treated and, in fact, released, and their
numbers are going just, in fact, like ours. Mandate; no mandate.
Stay-at-home order; no stay-at-home order.
So I think it's really important for us to give consideration to the
comparison of the communities without just saying the mandate's
working. There is zero argument from me -- and you and I have
talked about this, Stephanie -- about the potentiality and the
percentage reduction of wearing a mask and spreading the virus or
not. There's no argument that the data is there that there is a
percentage reduction. There's no argument.
All I've ever asked for and what I've talked about is tolerance for
the choice.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Is there a question there?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. Well, the question
was, I would like to see comparative data for other communities that
do and don't -- I could be a lot less verbose, couldn't I?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I won't answer that question.
MS. VICK: I will take a look at what would be appropriate to
show.
September 3, 2020
Page 37
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MS. VICK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And you and I can talk about
how we get there.
MS. VICK: Yeah. There's one thing that I want to say to all
of you. And I certainly -- I am an agent of the State, the Department
of Health. As such, I cannot advocate either way. I can only tell
you what the facts are and whether the rate went down since you did
the mask order or whether it didn't and what I think the impact was.
But I can tell you this: I've heard you a number of times talk
about education. You'd like to see us put more into education. We
were doing that from the very beginning, and we kept ramping it,
ramping it up, ramping it up everywhere, particularly in Immokalee,
and the rates still went up. They didn't start heading down until right
around the time the mask order was put into place. And you said
that you felt the people could be self-responsible but, obviously, they
weren't before that point.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah. I don't know if I'm asking
the same questions or not, so please forgive.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Use your microphone.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you very much. Thank
you.
So, I understand that the City of Naples does not have a mask
ordinance.
MS. VICK: That is true.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: The City of Marco Island does not
have a mask ordinance. Lee County does not have a mask
ordinance. Have their rates gone up while we have our mask
ordinance?
MS. VICK: Marco -- when Marco was limiting the number of
September 3, 2020
Page 38
people that were coming to their beaches and we were still
allowing -- we were still allowing people from the East Coast to
come to other Collier County beaches, Marco was showing a much
more small incremental growth in their number of cases. They've
been small all along, but they are growing in cases.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: They're not going down. They're
going up, but everybody else is going down; is that what you're
saying?
MS. VICK: The county overall is going down.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Say that again.
MS. VICK: The county overall is going down but, yes, we see
an increase in their cases. You can look at the dashboard report that
comes out, and it names the different towns. And you can watch
their number of cases going up just for that area. But it's hard to
make that comparison.
I would tell you, though, if both the cities did a mask
mandate -- and what's helping them is the businesses are doing masks
on their own.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Say that again.
MS. VICK: They're asking people to wear mask in their --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Doing what? Mask what?
MS. VICK: They're asking people to wear a mask in their
business on their own without a mandate from the city, is what
they're doing. And that's what's helping them. But I can tell you, if
they were to do a mask mandate, we, as a county, might be able to get
our rate down into the 2 percent range. But we'll see. Because,
obviously, not everybody is going to abide by the rule. There is still
some personal responsibility in there.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. I had understood, and
maybe I'm wrong -- I've been out of town. I had understood that
everybody's rates were going down whether they had a mask
September 3, 2020
Page 39
ordinance or not, and so that's why I was asking you this. Because
that isn't the information I had received. You're telling me that's
wrong?
MS. VICK: I'm telling you that when the Governor gets up
there and says the state of Florida is 5.5 positivity, and the rates are
going down, way down, Collier County does not represent that
number. We play into that number. We are a part of the state of
Florida. Just like Naples and Marco are part of Collier County. So
when we give you a rate that Collier County is going down, that does
not mean that every single area in the county is going way down.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. Then tell me, is Lee
County going down?
MS. VICK: I think they are.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. But they don't have a mask
ordinance, right?
MS. VICK: They don't.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay, fine.
The second thing I want to ask was, sometimes some of the
information we get -- and I'm only -- for anybody who doesn't know
me, I'm a baseball fan, especially the Cleveland Indians, so that's all I
know about. And when I was watching the Cleveland Indians the
past weeks and weeks, they were -- one whole segment of the
baseball, like the national league or something, they had to stop
playing. They canceled all kinds because everybody tested positive.
Well, two days later they found that they didn't really test positive
after all, so then everything had to start back up. So that was really a
problem. Oh, you remember that, yeah. And so, you know,
sometimes tests aren't believable.
And the third thing I wanted to say, not pertaining to this, but
about masks. I've just been in Amish country. The Amish are
terrified of masks. They feel they're dangerous because you keep
September 3, 2020
Page 40
breathing your own things. Whatever's caught in your mask, you're
breathing in the rest of the day. They will not wear them.
So the Governor then asked, put a -- put an order that everybody
that should wear masks except if it's against your religion, and
that's -- that eliminated the Amish. And the Amish then would have
signs on their stores and their restaurants: "Our people do not wear
masks. If you're uncomfortable, please wear a mask." In other
words, you know, use your own self-guidance. You don't have to
wear it; just do it if you feel right.
And then it says, if you don't feel comfortable with our people
not wearing masks, we'll bring something out to you. So they -- you
know, they are kind of like working with everybody. You know, if
the mask doesn't fit, don't wear it, type of a thing. And I think all in
all, when you boil it all down, we have to use our own head. We
have to give some -- use some positive input into your own head,
what's right and what isn't right.
(Applause.)
MS. VICK: Commissioner. Commissioner.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Again, I'm going to please ask the
audience to -- please, no applause. I mean, that's just going to delay
things. Things are going to take longer. You're going to hear me
say the same thing over and over again, and it's just going to take that
much longer. So please be respectful. We don't permit applause
from the audience and that sort of thing.
Commissioner Fiala, are you finished?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: She was just answering me.
MS. VICK: Yes. I just -- you can give anecdotal stories of all
sorts of thing.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Pardon me?
MS. VICK: You can give anecdotal stories of all sorts of
things.
September 3, 2020
Page 41
Yes, we're aware that sometimes the testing results are messed
up. In fact, in the charts that I showed you today, we took out the
results from the 24th when we were calculating the overall rate
because we knew that the tests that came in that day jacked up our
positivity rate because of a lot of old positive results that were
dumped into the system that day. We removed it, okay. So, it is
known that testing can not be accurate all the time.
As far as businesses, you know, trying to work things out so that
they serve people, there are a lot of businesses that have done
curbside service, and they still have only been able to serve
50 percent of what they were serving over the past year, and they're
biting the dust. We want to help the health of the county and
commerce.
So, thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Solis. And before
you start, Commissioner Solis, let me talk be a little bit about the
scheduling. We're going to take a break here in just a few minutes, a
court reporter break. We have a budget that we have to do this
evening. We have a hearing scheduled at 5:05. So at 4:30 I'm
going to recess the discussion on masks and take a 30-minute break
so staff can get ready for the 5:00 hearing. We'll have the 5:00
budget hearing. And if we're not finished the mask thing by 4:30,
we'll finish it after the budget. Does anybody have any problem
with that?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You're the boss.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. So that will give
everybody notice as to what kind of schedule we're going to be on.
MS. VICK: Okay.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: How many speakers do we have,
do you know?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Troy?
September 3, 2020
Page 42
MR. MILLER: I have 44 in person and another 20 registered
that are currently online or at least online were online 15 minutes
ago.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: For the speakers, what we've done
the last two times or three times that we've had this issue, we've
limited speakers to two minutes. As we get close to 4:30, we'll try
to --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You go on for an hour and 15
minutes, tell us we don't get our time. Are you kidding me?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Speakers will have two
minutes.
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We did that before. And if it gets
too late, we may have to go to the one minute.
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So everybody's on notice of that.
Commissioner Solis?
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Yeah. I would just like to thank
Ms. Vick for everything that she's been doing. I know it's been a
long road for you and everyone at the Department of Health.
And since it was brought up in terms of what the pandemic and
the infection rates and everything mean in terms of our economy, I
would like to read a statement that I received today from Michael
Dalby, president and CEO of the Greater Naples Chamber of
Commerce.
And it says, Dear Chairman Saunders and Board of County
Commissioners, we respectfully ask -- this is from Jenna
Buzzacco-Foerster asking me to read this, so...
We respectfully ask you to read the following statement from
Chamber president and CEO, Michael Dalby, into the record.
The Greater Naples Chamber continues to support measures
September 3, 2020
Page 43
including mask requirements that keep our economy open. We have
received little negative feedback on the current masking
requirements. The vast majority of employers adapted to the
requirements and are willing to do their part to ensure the economy
stays open.
With COVID-19 positivity rate -- with the COVID-19 positivity
rate trending in the right direction, schools reopening, and a long
holiday weekend on the horizon, we believe it makes good sense to
continue the masking requirement for the time being.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
This is -- this is the Greater Naples Chamber of Commerce
supporting, from an economic standpoint, that the mask requirement
has had a positive effect on businesses. It keeps employees safe.
Businesses can be open.
I've had conversations with other of the major employers.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Solis -- and I
apologize, but let me interrupt. We're kind of in questions now. In
terms of the debate on the issue, I think it would be more appropriate
at the end. But if you have questions for Ms. Vick or the presenters,
this is --
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: No. I would just -- I just was
bringing this up now because she referenced that this whole effort is
also about trying to keep our economy open. So, I'm just reading it
now. But that's -- that's fine. I just wanted to thank you for
bringing that up, because there is a lot of support for this.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just a couple of things. And
I -- I've been acutely aware as to what's been going on in Immokalee,
and education is, in fact, the key. Positive case management is, in
fact, the key. I think, as you've already said, it's imperative for us to
have information on a comparative basis as to what other
September 3, 2020
Page 44
communities are experiencing.
I could look -- I'm looking at the dashboard right now, and
Marco's a different color than the entire part of this county
irrespective of what you just got done saying. Two different ZIP
codes in Commissioner Solis' district are different colors. So, I think
it's imperative from an advocation standpoint, which you're not
supposed to be doing, to share information from a factual base so that
we can, in fact, make educated decisions.
MS. VICK: Sure.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Taylor.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Just one quick thing.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm sorry. Commissioner Fiala,
Commissioner Taylor was next.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I'd like to speak. I have a
question for Superintendent Patton, Dr. Patton.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Dr. Patton, if you could
come on up.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Thank you. Talk to me about
what's happening -- because we've heard so much about the parents,
especially parents of high school kids and athletics. What's
happening with that?
DR. PATTON: Yeah. So, actually, that's a big thanks to you
and your executive order. So, we've worked with, again, Stephanie
Vick, because we had such a high positivity rate in Collier County,
that our athletes were not going to get the opportunity to have
athletics. Then we were able to at least get them out practicing.
Then the State -- the Florida High School Athletic Association put
out theirs which, again, caused a big scur around the state, you know.
And, again, with the whole idea of working with your
local -- because it's been stated different places have different issues.
We're so big, and you know this as well as I do, that 2,300 square
September 3, 2020
Page 45
miles, we're the size of the state of Delaware. So we can have an
area here in Collier that is having an issue and another area that's not,
but -- and always trying to work with equity for our kids, we really
wanted sports to try and stay the same where we could.
So, when we first started talking about it, we were a no-go, but
then with the masks and the mandates, we saw that dramatic dip. So
as of just two nights ago, we're clear to actually have our -- not only
kids play and participate, but, more importantly, hit where Stephanie
felt we're okay now to invite just each player and two people within
their households. So, parents, because if parents live in different
households, they cannot come to the game and sit together. It has to
be a household.
So that's a hurdle for us. It's actually really -- we weren't going
to mention that till tomorrow. So, we were telling the principals just
this morning.
But it is, it's a big thing for us. So that's why we, again, say we
don't want to not have parents in the stands. It was hard enough to
not have seniors have a graduation across the state, which I'm sure all
of us had that opportunity. Virtual graduation was wonderful, but it
is not the same. It's a moment that 30 percent of our kids will never
go to college and universities, so those 30 percent will never get to
walk across the stage.
But the athletics -- we want to keep that down. Again, it's been
staying open and having this. So even our athletics -- you're going
to see pictures soon. The first football game's September 17th.
You'll see, it's every six feet is a mask and six feet apart. The
households can sit two, and then six feet from there.
Our volleyball will have the 15 -- and it's only the home kids,
too. We don't have enough room to have home and visitors. But
then also the volleyball. That's our other big season right now for
the girls. So, it's still the 15 girls.
September 3, 2020
Page 46
And then the home team has their 30 times two. That's it. It's
not that the gym can't hold more, but that rule is 50 people or more.
So, we're doing the best we can to comply with those rules.
So, we really do appreciate the masks because it's helping keep
that -- not only did it drive it down, but it can help us keep that.
Athletics is a big part. It's what we often say, is that athletics
are really the best dropout prevention we have for many of our kids
because it maintains an attendance rate, a GPA that they have to have
and everything else, so thank you for your question.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah. You know, you're kind of
talking about common sense, and I think this is what it all boils down
to is common sense rather than a hammer. Today at lunchtime I
went to a restaurant right here in East Naples, and she was -- she
came over to the -- the owner came over to the table and was
saying -- she said, you see how many people we have here? She
said, but in the City of Naples where Dalby is, she said, they have
plenty of people because they don't have a mask ordinance, but here
we do, and they don't want to come into our restaurants.
And, you know, I can understand Michael Dalby. He
represents the City of Naples, and they don't have a mask ordinance,
but we do here. And maybe -- maybe common sense ought to be
entered into this thing.
I just -- you know, sit six feet apart, you know, wear your mask
if you want to, but if you -- if you don't, if it bothers you or makes
you sick inside, don't wear it.
DR. PATTON: Well, but to be honest, that's not an option for
us.
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, that's good. You're talking
September 3, 2020
Page 47
about our children --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
DR. PATTON: Just like our board meeting. That's another
one. It's a public building, so that's our rule, so...
COMMISSIONER FIALA: That's fine.
DR. PATTON: You know, people have been great. They've
all shown up to our board meetings.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'm getting out of schools now, I'm
sorry, and into restaurants.
DR. PATTON: Okay. All right. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Just so the public understand, the
ordinance that we have in place, once you're in a restaurant and
seated, you don't have to wear a mask, obviously. So that -- it does
require the employees to do so.
We're going to take a 15-minute break, and we'll come back at
2:40.
(A brief recess was had from 2:23 p.m. to 2:40 p.m.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ladies and gentlemen, the
meeting of the County Commission will please come to order. If
you'll please take your seats.
I think we're at the public portion of this; is that correct,
Mr. Ochs? Anything else in the staff --
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh. There are a couple things, I
think, you were going to --
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir. Mr. Chairman, we're going to move, I
believe, to Item 2B. This was the add-on item –
Item #2B
DECLARE THE EXISTENCE OF AN EMERGENCY
September 3, 2020
Page 48
PROCUREMENT CONDITION AND APPROVE THE
PURCHASE OF A RECREATIONAL VEHICLE ACQUIRED TO
SERVE AS A MOBILE TESTING UNIT AND FUTURE
VACCINATION SITE WITH CARES FUNDING FOR USE BY
THE COLLIER COUNTY HEALTH DEPARTMENT –
APPROVED
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's right.
MR. OCHS: -- to deal with.
This is a recommendation to declare the existence of an
emergency procurement condition and approve the purchase of a
vehicle acquired to serve as a mobile testing unit and future
vaccination sites to be funded with CARES Act funding for use by
the Collier County Health Department.
Mr. Carnell can make a very brief presentation on this, unless
there's questions.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let me ask. I don't know if you
briefed all the commissioners. Is everyone aware of what this issue
is?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I haven't heard it at all. I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay.
MR. CARNELL: For the record, Steve Carnell, Public
Services department head.
Your Health Department has made a request to us to help
them/assist them in funding the acquisition of a recreational vehicle
that could be deployed for remote COVID testing in Collier County
and eventually will be deployed and used for vaccination distribution
of the vaccine when it's available.
Staff has gone out and obtained quotes, price quotes, from RV
dealers, and we've come up with a vehicle that meets their needs
that's located in Fort Myers for a price of $117,958.
September 3, 2020
Page 49
The vehicle is ready to go. We can get it off the lot as soon as
we can get authorized visa the Board through the Clerk. And this is
something the Health Department needs to continue to enhance its
COVID response. And I'll answer any further questions.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Are there any
questions? Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. Is it going to be stationed at
one place? Driving around to different places? How is it going to
operate? Because you've got such far places, Immokalee, and then
you go to Marco Island. How are you going to do that?
MR. CARNELL: We're going to drive the vehicle to each of
those places.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I mean, you station it one day one
place or --
MR. CARNELL: Well, it will depend on their programming
and what their need is. And, yes, Commissioner, they'll station it in
different locations when they have scheduled testing days in different
elements of the community, and the same will happen later in the
vaccine stage delivery.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And just as a further
explanation, Commissioner Fiala, I've had numerous conversations
with Stephanie, our director of our Health Department, about
this -- about this item, and they really feel it's going to -- there are a
lot of areas in our community where the barriers are difficult for our
residents to come and get tested: Language barriers, housing
barriers, employment, documentation and the like. This facility's
going to assist our Health Department all throughout our community
to be able to -- to be able to better enhance our efforts on doing
the -- on doing the testing. So, I'd like --
September 3, 2020
Page 50
COMMISSIONER FIALA: So, it's going to actually be for the
Health Department?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. Yes, ma'am. And I'd
like to move for approval, please.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Is there a second?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion and
second. Any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Seeing none, all in favor, signify
by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
Item #3A
PURSUANT TO COLLIER COUNTY RESOLUTION NO. 95-632,
THAT THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
AUTHORIZE THE COUNTY ATTORNEY TO HELP SELECT
AND RETAIN OUTSIDE COUNSEL TO REPRESENT
CCOMMISSIONERS ANDREW SOLIS, BURT SAUNDERS, AND
PENNY TAYLOR, WHO ARE ALL BEING SUED IN THEIR
INDIVIDUAL CAPACITIES IN THE CASE STYLED FRANCIS
A. OAKES, III, OAKES FARMS, INC. D/B/A SEED TO TABLE,
AND SEED TO TABLE, LLC v. COLLIER COUNTY, ANDREW
SOLIS, BURT SAUNDERS, AND PENNY TAYLOR, CASE NO.
2:20-CV-568, UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE
September 3, 2020
Page 51
MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA, FORT MYERS DIVISION,
AND INADDITION TO EXEMPT THE SELECTION OF
OUTSIDE COUNSEL FROM THE COMPETITIVE PROCESS AS
PERMITTED UNDER SECTION EIGHT, SUBSECTION SEVEN
OF COLLIER COUNTY PURCHASING ORDINANCE NO. 2017-
08, AS AMENDED – APPROVED
All right. We'll get into Item 3A [sic], Mr. Ochs. I think you
are prepared to give us a little report on the enforcement issue, the
Code Enforcement summary. If you could give us that, and then
we'll get into the discussion and the public hearing.
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir.
Commissioners, over the past 43 days, the Code Enforcement
Division has received 98 verified complaints regarding the
emergency mask order. I'm happy to report that in most cases, upon
site visits and education and discussion, there's been very good
compliance to date with the mask order.
There has been only five citations issued so far with regard to
those 98 complaints that have been filed. So that's a fairly low ratio,
and those represent, really, only two businesses that we have had an
issue and actual violation to at this point.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. So, on the other 93
cases, there's been voluntary compliance. Is that --
MR. OCHS: That's correct, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. All right. We're now on
Item 3A, which is the question of whether or not we're going to --
MR. OCHS: 2A, sir. I'm sorry. Item 2A, right?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm looking at
my notes here.
We're on the issue of the mask ordinance. I'll turn this over to
Commissioner Solis. I think, if you would give us a little quick
September 3, 2020
Page 52
introduction as to where you'd like to see this go.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Okay. Well, as I started saying
before, my discussions with both the Chamber of Commerce, which
represents all of Collier County, not just Naples, and major
employers, the fact that schools are reopening, college students are
returning to college is a big unknown. It's a big question mark how
that's going to impact our rates, our positivity rates in Collier County.
And we've seen any number of reports from any number of
places from the country that that has had an impact on the positivity
rates.
So, having said that, the fact that also the schools are -- the
public schools are reopening is of very much concern, because we
need the schools to stay open.
It's been expressed to me that if in-person school is shut down
because of high positivity rates, then it's significantly going to be
impacting major employers because, their employees, one of them
may have to stay home.
It's -- this is an issue that impacts businesses, employees,
manufacturing businesses across the board. And the businesses I've
talked to have -- and I think the proof is in the pudding again that, as
Mr. Ochs was saying, if there's been a complaint filed, by and large,
the businesses have complied. Our rates are going down. And we
should be prudent and continue to make sure that our rates continue
to go down, because I don't think that we should take a gamble on
next season.
The emails I get from many constituents that are now up north is
to please continue the ordinance because they want to come down in
the season. I don't think anybody will disagree that not having
another season would be very detrimental to every business in Collier
County.
So, at this point, with such big variables and unknowns facing us
September 3, 2020
Page 53
right now -- schools opened on Monday. I think it would be most
prudent to continue the mask requirement, and we can discuss what
that time frame would be in order to protect our season, in order to
protect the economy, in order to make sure that the schools can
remain open because all this works together. And if people don't
feel safe, they're not coming down.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Any other comments
before we go to the public hearing?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Again, the speakers
will have two minutes.
MR. MILLER: Yes, Mr. Chairman --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Mr. Chairman, our previous
conversation was moving our congressman ahead.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm glad you
reminded me, because I told you remind me in case I forgot.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, you did, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Congressman-to-be,
congratulations. And I know you've got important public business
and, I think, a funeral, if I'm not mistaken, to attend. So we'll have
you go first, and then we'll proceed from that. And, again,
congratulations on your accomplishment.
REPRESENTATIVE DONALDS: Thank you. Commissioner
Saunders, Chairman Saunders.
Members of the Commission, it's good seeing you guys again.
Look, I'll be brief.
I was in a -- I was in a presentation in Cape Coral two nights ago
with the Florida Restaurant and Lodging Association. They stated
very clearly in their presentation that the occupancy rate for hotels in
Lee County has increased over the last month, six weeks. One of the
reasons that Lee County's FRLA cites that is because of the mask
September 3, 2020
Page 54
ordinance in Collier County and, you know, people who are
bypassing our county going to Lee County and renting hotels there.
The second thing I will relay to you is a brief story. I was in a
local business here. They had the plexiglass up for the workers,
similar to what Mr. Ochs has right here. There was three people in
the store. I was one of the three two days after you passed this mask
ordinance. I didn't walk in with a mask.
The owner of that shop wanted their customers to wear masks,
but there was three people in the store, a store that was about 2,000
square feet.
So I understand what you're trying to do, but the reality of what's
happening on the ground is that people have lost common sense to try
to comply with a mask ordinance that is, frankly, very difficult to
comply with. It's put a lot of pressure on a lot of business owners in
the county. I'm quite sure that they're more upset than to email you
about it, but they're very upset.
I went to a restaurant here also in Collier County. There was
nobody in the restaurant. I walked in with my wife. The table was
literally 15 feet away from the door, and nobody was between us and
the door. The store manager said, can you please wear a mask?
Here's the reality. Wear a mask for what? There was nobody there.
We're walking 15 feet to the table where then we can sit down.
The last thing I will share with you -- and I've said this
before -- is I don't believe you guys have the legal authority to do
this. I've reviewed some of the cases that have come up across the
state, and in reading the opinions, the one that comes to mind is the
Gadsden County opinion where the judge that turned -- that actually
struck down the lawsuit, the logic was, frankly, ridiculous logic. It
made no sense where they were actually drawing a legal opinion
from to say that the mask mandate should be supported other than to
say that the business owner that filed suit wasn't harmed in any
September 3, 2020
Page 55
particular way.
Sorry. Two minutes goes fast.
Last thing I'll tell you -- and I'm going to respect your time.
But the last thing I will tell you is Marco Island doesn't have a mask
mandate. The City of Naples does not have a mask mandate.
Commissioner Taylor, who lives in the City of Naples, doesn't even
have to -- doesn't even have to live under the mandate that she would
apply to the rest of Collier County. That is not an appropriate use of
governmental power, in my opinion.
(Applause.)
REPRESENTATIVE DONALDS: And, so, I would hope that
what you would do is make sure that business owners have the right
information.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Congressman, hang on one
second. You will have some more time.
REPRESENTATIVE DONALDS: But that you repeal the
mandate.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I said this before. I'm going to
say it again. We're going to break at 4:30. And every time the
audience starts to applaud and interrupt, I'm going to do the same
thing. I'm going to make the same statement, so you're going to
have to sit here that much longer. So I'm going to ask you to,
please -- we don't do any hollering from the audience. We don't do
the applause. And if you keep doing that, I'm going to keep doing
the same thing, and you're going to wind up sitting here that much
longer.
Congressman.
REPRESENTATIVE DONALDS: My last point. And, with
all due respect to Dr. Banyai -- we'll figure that out on November 3rd.
But my last point is this, Commissioner Taylor, like I said, in
most of your district, there is no mask mandate. So, in my view, it
September 3, 2020
Page 56
isn't appropriate to basically force the rest of the county that you do
not actually represent when in the place where you do represent there
is no mask mandate. I do find that to be inappropriate.
As a commission on a whole, I would hope that you guys would
change your mind and not continue with this mask mandate, because
one thing is clear, if you look at the data across the entire state of
Florida, positivity rate is decreasing every single day in our state.
That's irrespective of if there is a mask mandate or not in the state of
Florida.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you very much.
REPRESENTATIVE DONALDS: Thank you, guys.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And also, just as you called next
speaker, Commissioner Taylor represents District 4, I believe, which
encompasses a significantly larger area than the City of Naples and,
also, she represents, actually, the entire county. So it's not just
Commissioner Taylor living in the city and representing only in the
city.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, I've been trying -- I want
to -- we have 45 registered speakers here in person, but as I've gone
through my list, there's been quite a few duplicates; people have
dropped off slips for people and so forth. I've tried to weed them
out.
We have 22 people online currently. As per always, we take
the speakers in the order that they come. We will alternate between
in-person and remote.
Your first speaker will be Patrick Dearborn. He will be
followed by David Edel, then Jim Boatman, and then Erika Smith.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Continue to advise them that they
have the two minutes.
MR. MILLER: Yes. And for those listening online, the
speaking limit now is two minutes.
September 3, 2020
Page 57
Mr. Dearborn, two minutes, sir.
MR. DEARBORN: Thank you, guys. Thanks
Commissioners.
Two things: One, I'm going to spend 30 seconds. When I first
arrived here, we've only got a few designated public seats for the
public. This is a public hearing. I've never seen it before as we
continue to see seats being occupied and reserved for VIPs. I know
they were doctors they came to speak. You've got doctors outside.
You've got citizens that have every right to be in this room, and
they're not allowed in this room because people came in here, ripped
off public seat -- ripped off the public seats that you-all and your staff
put up, and then posted their own little stickers here, and now those
folks are gone. Meanwhile, people are out in their cars, they're home
on Zoom, and they're out in the hallway not social distancing.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You're using up your two minutes.
MR. DEARBORN: I can use my time however I want to, sir.
Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No, I understand.
MR. DEARBORN: So I'm just telling you it's not right. That's
part of the problem.
Number two, you guys have to get your story straight. I'm
being told by the -- God bless our school board chairman. She's
talking about choices. It's all about choices. If it's all about
choices, why can't we make up our own mind as grown adults and
veterans and proud citizens of this county not having three of you-all
out of fear telling me what I've got to do.
You heard Byron Donalds tell you. You-all have thrown
common sense out the door.
Lee County. No mask mandate. Numbers are lower than ours.
Fact. Please fact check me.
Marco Island, City of Naples where Penny Taylor has been seen
September 3, 2020
Page 58
without wearing a mask, lower numbers. We're okay. We've got
faith over fear. We've got this.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is David Edel. He will be
followed by Jim Boatman, Erika Smith, and then Dan Cook.
Mr. Edel, are you with us, sir?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: David Edel, are you with us, sir?
(No response.)
MR. OCHS: Next.
MR. MILLER: All right. Let's try Erika Smith. Ms. Smith?
MR. EDEL: I'm here.
Oh, wait. Is that you, Mr. Edel?
MR. EDEL: Yes, it is.
MR. MILLER: Thank you. You have two minutes, sir.
Please begin.
MR. EDEL: Thank you.
The doctors and the lady in red with the charts really proved
nothing. They don't realize that correlation does not equal causation.
The average death in America is 78 years old. The average age
of COVID-19 deaths is 78 years old.
The CDC on their website now says 94 percent of COVID-19
deaths have an average of 2.6 comorbidities. Only 6 percent were
COVID alone. That makes the death total less than 10,000
nationwide.
We need to step back away from the hyper, the inflated death
count, the false positive test results, and the media fear-mongering.
This whole thing is more like a social engineering experiment to
control the population through fear alone.
There are some who only follow science when it fits their
narrative. There is not a single randomized controlled test that
September 3, 2020
Page 59
proves face masks are effective. On the contrary, there have been a
number of randomized controlled studies with at least one published
in the Journal of American Medical Association that indicate
breathing in our own waste and touching the mask can increase
infection. And now dentists are reporting what they call mask
mouth with increased cavities and gingivitis spikes. Masks are
lowering the immune system of our community.
The entire slide that the lady showed about the myths is the
biggest myth of all. Anyone can buy an oximeter on Amazon for
about $20 to test the oxygen in their blood, and you will find that
blood oxygen level will drop about 7 percentage points in less than
20 minutes.
Speaking of tests, my first cousin was waiting in line in her car
to get her COVID test. She could not wait any long, so she drove
away. Within a week, she got the results of her test. It was
positive. She never took the test.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you very much,
sir.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jim Boatman. He will be
followed by Erika Smith and then Daniel Cook.
Mr. Boatman?
MR. BOATMAN: If it's okay, I would like to switch my
name --
MR. MILLER: We do not cede time on this meeting, sir. I'm
sorry.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: He just wants to switch.
MR. MILLER: Oh, switch time. Okay.
MR. BOATMAN: I want to switch. Thank you, sir.
MR. MILLER: I will move you swap you with Mr. Oakes, sir.
MR. BOATMAN: Thank you, sir.
MR. OAKES: Yeah. I'd just like to address what, you know,
September 3, 2020
Page 60
Stephanie Vick said. She's not choosing sides, but anybody with the
least bit of sanity can see that she's representing what is clearly a
political activist group known as the Health Department. A lot of
the things that the Health Department tells us are not true. What
they think about proper health is not true. You can see it by the
people that represent the Health Department many times.
You know, I don't want to call people out, but I came in here
this morning at 8:30, and Penny Taylor came out -- I was holding the
door for her, and she wasn't wearing a mask, but now she's wearing a
mask.
We're seeing this all over the country. We're seeing -- you
know, I saw Nancy Pelosi at the hair salon with not wearing a mask
in a place where all the salons have to be closed out there and
everyone has to wear a mask.
And I think, you know, I'm speaking for the silent majority of
people here that are really fed up of this hypocrisy that's coming from
our governing leaders, and it's disgraceful.
For me, you can keep the mask mandate for the next 15 years if
I'm talking about my personal best interest, because I'm doing great.
This whole COVID thing and our business has flourished better than
it ever has before. I almost feel guilty.
I'm not up here because -- I'm not championing for my own self.
This is for the people. This is for my children. And I would wear
handcuffs before I would wear a mask, and I promise you that, but I
would also wear a mask proudly if you would take the masks off the
kids in school, because there's nothing more disgraceful than making
these young kids go to school wearing these masks. I'm appalled
that we've come to this.
This is a total farce what's going on here, and I cannot believe
that as intelligent as I would expect you folks to be up there, that you
can't see through this. It's mind-boggling to me.
September 3, 2020
Page 61
So I hope you just think about what you're doing up there.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Erika Smith. She will be
followed by Daniel Cook, Judi Palay, and then Daija Hinojosa.
Ms. Smith, are you with us?
MS. SMITH: Yes, I am.
MR. MILLER: You have two minutes. Please begin, ma'am.
MS. SMITH: Listen, with my biologist experience and being in
the medical field, my first instinct is to speak against these mask
mandates using scientific evidence and research studies facts and data
to prove that the benefits of using the masks are, at best,
inconclusive, but I do agree with the CDC that only 6 percent of them
only died solely of COVID, and this data clearly states that our
pandemic is a chronic disease pandemic and not a virus pandemic.
The reality is, though, that I have stated facts, and so many
others have done that. We have quoted study after study, fact after
fact that goes against using a mask, and still it goes unheard.
This council and many school boards keep quoting and using as
a base for the county and school mask mandates one single study
done in a hair salon. One single medical group speaking on the
subject. No alternative medicine representation. No psychology
fieldwork representation.
It seems only what serves the mask mandate is represented,
because there's plenty of research from the scientific and medical
community that demonstrates a different point of view.
Since facts and data provided by the scientific community going
against the mask mandate seem to fall on deaf ears, today I'd like to
speak of my personal experience to demonstrate how this mask
mandate is destroying our community. A week and a half ago my
10-year-old had a dental appointment, and I was prohibited from
being in the building. I pleaded with her and asked the doctor and
other patients' permission to be in the treatment room because my son
September 3, 2020
Page 62
was so nervous that he asked me to be there.
She stated it didn't matter what I thought because I wasn't even
allowed to be in the waiting area. I implored with her, how could
this be possible? My son was only 10 years old. Why would I not
be allowed? I was wearing a mask. I was not six feet from her and
other people in the office.
Twice I implored with her. He is 10. He is a child, and yet she
continued to utilize the mask mandate COVID regulations to get their
way.
I called the Health Department after the appointment and got
informed that it is my parental right not only to be in the office but be
in the treating room regardless of COVID, regardless of HIPAA,
regardless of whatever.
Mask mandates perpetuate these kinds of behaviors. My
parental rights were violated for the first time, all the while using
your mandate as a supporting standard. These measures have just
turned people against each other. It has given people the idea that
they have --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm sorry.
MS. SMITH: -- some sort of power over others. They do not.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Your time is up.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Daniel Cook. He will be
followed by Judi Palay, Daija Hinojosa -- I hope I'm saying that
right -- and Linda Oberhaus.
Mr. Cook, you have two minutes, sir.
MR. COOK: Mr. Chairman, we really have got to stop meeting
like this.
So about six months ago I looked you in the eye up here
warning you about the unintended consequences of the government's
policies, i.e., the lockdown. I would not have guessed that it would
lead to this moment now where I feel like I am duty-bound to defend
September 3, 2020
Page 63
my right to breath freely.
So on behalf of the hundreds of Collier County citizens who
signed the first round of petitions, plus the 178 autographs collected
in the past week for this petition, I hereby lawfully and formally
serve this petition for redress of grievances.
Whereas, Article 1, Section 1 of the Florida Constitution states,
all political power is inherent in the people. Article 1, Section 5 of
the Florida Constitution states that the people shall have the right to
peaceably assemble to instruct their government and to petition for a
redress of grievances.
Whereas, we the free people living in Collier County do not
consent to the continuance of this mask mandate.
We, therefore, lawfully and formally instruct you, the County
Commissioners, not to continue this mask mandate.
And I hear a lot of arguments about the health aspect of it but,
from my perspective, this is about our rights. I actually agree with
the superintendent about the options. We're imploring, asking you to
allow the citizens to continue to have the option whether to put a
mask on or not.
I'm not even going to get into the health -- negative health
aspects of what wearing a mask does to me and, believe me, it does
some bad things.
But I just want to end with this, that if you, indeed, do vote to
extend this mask mandate, I believe that is evidence that you are
governing without the consent of the governed. And if you continue
to do that, then I call -- I think that is grounds for resignation if you
do decide to continue to govern that way.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Judi Palay. She will be
followed by Daija Hinojosa, and then Linda Oberhaus, and then
Chadwin Taylor.
September 3, 2020
Page 64
Ms. Palay, are you with us?
MS. PALAY: Yes, I am.
MR. MILLER: You have two minutes, ma'am. Please begin.
MS. PALAY: Thank you.
I am not an expert, so I listen to experts. Epidemiologists, not
radiologists.
I'm sharing information found on the AMA public health site,
August 4th, 2020. New knowledge, new reasons to mask up.
Dr. Fauci added that these recommendations are reinforced by
new information emerging about how SARS COVID-2 may be
transmitted through the air.
We usually say that regular particles from coughing and
sneezing that are greater than five micrometers fall to the ground
within three to six feet, Dr. Fauci noted. But what you find out from
aerosol particle scholars is they say you know there are particles that
are larger that are floating around a lot longer and don't always fall to
the ground.
The notion is something we need to re-examine, Dr. Fauci said,
noting that he and his colleagues are looking to learn more from these
scholars about SARS COVID-2 airborne transmission. Even the
experts talk with experts.
The one thing it really does tell us is that you better wear a
mask, Dr. Fauci said. It also tells us something about the indoor
versus outdoors. It tells us something about the circulation or
recirculation of air. If you have any degree of area solization [sic], if
you're in an indoor space where the air is being recirculated, it makes
sense to assume that there's a much greater risk than if you are
outside.
We've got to get these numbers down, stressed Dr. Fauci, a
member of the White House Coronavirus Task Force and director of
NIH's National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease. If we
September 3, 2020
Page 65
don't get them down, we're going to have a really bad situation in the
fall as you go indoors and you get the complications of influenza
season.
The goal is to get the daily nationwide caseload between [sic]
10,000 before September. As of a week ago there were 33,684 new
cases.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you very much. Your time
is up. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Daija Hinojosa, followed
by Linda Oberhaus, then Chadwin Taylor, and then Marcia Maloni.
I hope I've been at least close on your name.
MS. HINOJOSA: Nope, not at all. That is quite all right,
though.
Okay. It's actually Daija Hinojosa, for the record.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Say that again. I'm sorry.
MS. HINOJOSA: Daija Hinojosa. Silent H.
I speak for thousands when I say that we have not complied to
your mask mandates and we will continue to not comply to your
unlawful mask mandates.
You are seeing decreased cases with a large number of the
population not wearing masks, as you have heard.
I believe that this is not about health. This is about compliance.
And I have a hard time taking government officials seriously when I
see them exempt from the mandate that they are in favor of, like
Penny Taylor who was out in the City of Naples not wearing her
mask, or Nancy Pelosi getting her hair done without her mask.
We, the people, do not give consent to forced unlawful mandates
onto us, and we do not live in fear, and we do not listen to
independent agencies.
Robert Kennedy said it best: The only thing a government
needs to make people enslaved is fear. If you can get them to live in
September 3, 2020
Page 66
fear, you can get them to do anything.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Linda Oberhaus. She
will be followed by Chadwin Taylor, Marcia Maloni, and then
Falynne Miller.
Ms. Oberhaus, are you with us?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: Linda Oberhaus, are you with us?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: All right. Let's try Marcia Maloni then, Oscar.
Marcia Maloni, please. Are you with us, Ms. Maloni?
MS. OBERHAUS: I'm sorry, sir. I was muted. This is Linda
Oberhaus, and I'm here.
MR. MILLER: Thank you, Ms. Oberhaus. You have two
minutes. Please begin, ma'am.
MS. OBERHAUS: Thank you. Good afternoon. For the
record, my name is Linda Oberhaus, and I'm the CEO at the Shelter
for Abused Women and Children. I'd like to thank Chairman
Saunders and the rest of the Board for the opportunity to speak today.
I'm in favor of the mask ordinance and believe we should follow
the science, especially with the schools just reopening and with the
Labor Day holiday weekend approaching.
Collier County, as we heard earlier, has had close to 12,000
cases of COVID. And although we are seeing cases decline in
Florida, this could easily be reversed if we loosen precautions too
soon.
As an individual who operates a communal living facility for
victims of abuse, anything we can do to decrease the likelihood of
additional cases in our community will also decrease the likelihood of
cases in our shelter which serves vulnerable populations including the
elderly, children, and pregnant women.
September 3, 2020
Page 67
I believe that wearing a mask during a pandemic is a social
responsibility. It's not about me. It's about protecting and being
respectful of my fellow citizens.
In closing, I hope the Commission will vote to continue the
mask ordinance until such time that local and national health officials
determine that it is safe to do so.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Chadwin Taylor. He will
be followed by Marcia Maloni, Falynne Miller, and then Deborah
Cruise.
Mr. Taylor, you have two minutes.
MR. TAYLOR: Commissioner McDaniel, Commissioner
Fiala, thank you for standing on the side of truth and freedom on this
issue.
To our other Commissioners, as a former United Stated Marine,
I'm ashamed at your cowardice. Strong, sensible leadership is
required in a crisis, and you crumbled to mainstream media
propaganda.
You admitted in the last meeting that this ordinance was based
on the perception of safety. Stop driving the headlines and read the
data. Ninety-nine percent of the people who get COVID survive.
Whatever happened to personal responsibility? If you're at risk,
if you're scared, if you're fearful, stay home. Stop expecting
everyone else to coddle you by putting on a mask.
This was never designed to prevent the spread of infectious
diseases. And I'll quote, on the mask issued by the school system as
we just saw, warning, not intended to prevent or eliminate exposure
to any disease, infection, or communicable disease. Interesting.
And I find it interesting as well that Dr. Patton, Dr. Lindner, or
Stephanie Vick over here did not quote the same study that was used
in CCPC press conference, on the same day of the mandate, mind
September 3, 2020
Page 68
you, that was used to justify the masks. They did not quote that.
In fact, I get an email from the Florida Health Department from
Stephanie Vick's office that the study they used in that press
conference was not finalized, and it was not peer reviewed, and it was
not published.
The only thing you've done over the last six weeks is perpetuate
fear. Mark my words, Commissioners, we are organizing and we are
building.
Take off your masks, and get rid of this ridiculous mandate. If
not, I can promise you that this lunacy will not continue much longer.
And to my fellow citizens, are we busy living, or are we busy
dying?
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Marcia Maloni. She'll be
followed by Falynne Miller and then Deborah Cruise and Carol
Moore.
If you have another audio source going in your room there, Ms.
Maloni, you will have to mute that. If your TV is on, you need to
mute it or else you're going to get feedback. Ms. Maloni, are you
with us?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: Ms. Maloni, are you there?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's go to the next speaker; we'll
come back to her.
MR. MILLER: Sure. Deborah Cruise, are you with us online?
Ms. Cruise, if you can un-mute. Are you with us, Ms. Cruise?
MS. CRUISE: Yes, I'm here.
MR. MILLER: All right. Ms. Cruise, you have two minutes,
please.
MS. CRUISE: I'd like to comment on what Mr. McDaniel said
about hospitals being among the safest places to be. This truth was
September 3, 2020
Page 69
supported by the doctor from NCH that there has only been one case
documented of a staff member catching COVID at work, and that
was way back in March before masking was taken so seriously at the
hospitals.
Keep in mind, too, that how safe it is at hospitals is in spite of
the fact that they have a concentration of COVID cases.
While Mr. McDaniel has, himself, pointed out how safe
hospitals are, and it's because of masks, he is not wearing a mask.
This tells me that education and common sense will not work to stem
the spread of COVID. Masks prevent the spread.
Please keep the mask mandate in place. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Falynne Miller. She'll be
followed by Marcia Maloni, Carol Moore, and then Dylan Mokowitz.
Ms. Miller, you have two minutes.
MS. MILLER: Thank you.
I'm watching the slide and hearing the numbers that are
presented, and they paint quite a compelling picture. But if
somebody with just a little bit of thinking power can see that there are
holes in the demonstration.
All of Collier County is represented in these numbers, and yet a
large portion of them are not under the mandate and they don't
comply, and even more percentage, one that has not been quantified,
don't comply anyway. I being one of thousands who will not
comply, and yet our numbers are decreasing. They are falling.
You can overlay the graphs county over county over county, and
we follow the same trajectory; that peak in July and then the
decrease. Mask mandate or no mask mandate, we follow the same
trajectory. This does nothing.
And the thing that the mainstream medical community and
scientists galore have been screaming for years is correlation does not
equal causation. Correlation does not equal causation and, yet, we
September 3, 2020
Page 70
are taking a muddied dataset and saying, look, there's a direct
correlation; it must be working.
It's not. You're feeding into fear and propaganda. You're
following lockstep into this fear porn that's pervading the entire
country.
We see elected officials go out in spite of and in direct
contravention with the rules and laws and ordinances that they put in
place. You think you're above the law. You're not. This is not a
law. I do not concede that it is. But, come on. We are adults.
We have common sense. Open your eyes and look around at what's
going on not only locally but across the entire country.
This is ridiculous and it needs to stop, and you need to end it
now. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Marcia Maloni, followed
by Carol Moore, Dylan Moskowitz, and Mr. Bracci -- yes, and then
Steven Bracci.
Marcia, are you with us? Ms. Maloni?
MS. MALONI: Yes, I am with you. Can you hear me?
MR. MILLER: Yes, ma'am. You have two minutes. Please
begin.
MS. MALONI: Okay. Bear with me, because there's a point
here. There's a famous black-and-white photo from the era of the
Third Reich. It is a picture taken in Hamburg, Germany, in 1936, of
shipboard workers, 100 or more facing the same direction in the light
of the sun.
They are all piling in unison, their right arms rigid and
outstretched, allegiance to the furor. If you look closely, you can see
a man in the upper right who is different from the others. He is
surrounded by fellow citizens caught under the spell of the Nazis.
He keeps his arms folded to his chest as the stiff palms of the
others hover just inches from him. He is alone and refusing to
September 3, 2020
Page 71
salute. He is the one man standing against the tide. He is the only
person in the entire scene who is on the right side of history.
Everyone around him is tragically, fatefully, categorically wrong. In
that moment, only he can see it.
In a regime such as that of the Third Reich, it was an act of
bravery to stand firm against the ocean [sic].
We would like to believe that we would have taken the more
difficult path of standing up for what is right. But unless people are
willing to transcend their fears, endure discomfort and derision,
suffer the scorn of constituents and neighbors and coworkers and
friends, fall into disfavor of perhaps everyone they know, face
exclusion and even banishment, it would be numerically impossible,
humanly impossible for everyone to be that man.
What would it take to be him in any era? What would it take to
be him now? I think those of who you voted for a mask mandate are
him today. You are the heroes.
And I want to just say something interesting. Today Fox did a
poll -- and I know we talk about we're two Americas, but -- and how
politically divided we are. But Trump's supporters, those who are
supporting him and going to vote for him and are going to vote for
him are for him except for two things --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm sorry, ma'am. Your time is
up. Thank you, ma'am.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Carol Moore. She will
be followed by Iris Shur, Steven Bracci, and Judit Price.
Ms. Moore, you have two minutes.
MS. MOORE: Thank you.
I'm Carol Donahue Moore, Collier County resident since 1992.
I'm grateful to speak up for my family, my very, very large family,
and my community.
Many speakers today have and will give you many compelling
September 3, 2020
Page 72
reasons why you should not renew the mask mandate. I'd simple
like to say the last six months have shed a lot of light on the true
stripes of many elected officials in our country, including you three,
all of you.
The mayors and governors of Seattle and Portland allow their
cities to be destroyed, to be destroyed by left-wing terrorists. You
are responsible for Collier County's being destroyed economically. I
never in a million years thought that a solid Republican county like
Collier would ever be subject to its elected and, clearly, RINO
officials flexing their overreaching and interfering muscles to impose
an inane economy-killing unhealthy mask mandate.
Commissioner Taylor, Solis, Saunders, you have exposed your
lousy decision-making power-mongering tendencies, and because of
your rogue, un-American oppressive mask mandate that incidentally
violates your oath of office, I proclaim here today my commitment
that I will work tirelessly to be sure that none of you three will be
reelected. I suggest you begin to start sending out your resumes.
But for your remaining term, I suggest you listen up and end this
mask nonsense and begin to serve we, the people, that, unfortunately,
elected you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Iris Shur. She'll be
followed by Steven Bracci, Judit Price, and Jason Beal.
Ms. Shur, are you with us? Iris Shur, are you with us, ma'am?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: One more call. Ms. Shur. You
might want to check and make sure you're un-muted.
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: Fine. Let's move to Steven Bracci here in the
room, and then we'll try Iris Shur, and then Jason Bell [sic], and then
Judit Price.
Mr. Bracci, you have two minutes.
September 3, 2020
Page 73
MR. BRACCI: Thank you.
I just want to make one quick point at the beginning about
Dr. Quintero who said that you needed 80 percent mask compliance
in order for them to be effective. So why, then, did the County
Commission, which has jurisdiction over the entire county and was
instructed by their County Attorney at the July 21 meeting, why did
they choose to opt out all the municipalities, including Commissioner
Taylor, which is 50 percent of her own constituency?
On the issue of the ever-moving goal posts, which are
apparently occurring, I want to read from the July 21st transcript.
Commissioner Taylor, talking about infection rate, as of
June 9th, it was 9.9 percent and today it's 15.63 percent. Maybe
that -- maybe that's why we didn't pass any kind of ordinance. We
were resistant to do it because it was 9.9. If it was 9.9, we'd be just
perfect in terms of what -- that's where we need to be, below that
10 percent mark. This is a measure to address a rising COVID
infection, says you, Ms. Taylor.
Commissioner Solis, so I agree, number one, that having a time
frame is good. Actually, before that, Commissioner Taylor
recommends a sunset period.
Commissioner Solis says, I agree, number one, that having a
time frame is good, and I would suggest, let's just put a time frame on
it. You know, the head of the CDC said that if we wore masks for a
certain period of time in the country, that the infection rate would go
down quickly. So I would suggest that -- I have the quote
here -- suggest that we pass six weeks of time frame from today.
And then to Commissioner Taylor -- Commissioner Solis says,
right, if we revisit it. And, obviously, if there's a drastic change in it,
then we could revisit it earlier than the six weeks.
Commissioner Saunders, right. I would suggest we come up
with a date.
September 3, 2020
Page 74
Well, that date is today. Mr. -- it was told that rate went from
15.63 percent down to 4.36 percent. How much greater of a drastic
decrease can you possibly have? And yet you're going to move the
goal post. You want to know when that sign can come down at
Oakes Farms? When you deserve to show that you're not deserving
of that totalitarian label.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Your time is up. Thank you.
MR. BRACCI: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Judit Price. She will be
followed by Jason Beal, and then Rick -- or excuse me -- and then
Paul Kardon, and then Rick LoCastro.
Ms. Price, are you with us, ma'am?
MS. PRICE: Yes.
MR. MILLER: You have two minutes, ma'am. Please begin.
MS. PRICE: Yes. Thank you very much for listening to me,
and thank you very much for doing this hearing today.
I am going to be very brief. First of all, I was so pleased to hear
the medical profession today calling for the mandate and telling us
the truth, what the scientists say.
And I am extremely appalled for the last few people who've
been talking and so much against the mask, so much against science.
It is not the -- they make it so politicized. This is not a political
issue.
I applaud the three commissioners who voted for it and deserve
to be reelected and applaud. And I applaud the full fact of the
mandate, the mandate -- the mask of mandate [sic].
It helped reduce cases, it helped reduce deaths, and we all know
it's because of the mask mandate. It's no other reasons.
And please see if it works and please follow the science and
don't allow the Republicans to make it a political issue.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jason Beal. He will be
September 3, 2020
Page 75
followed by Paul Kardon, Rick LoCastro, and Paul Flowerman.
Mr. Beal, you have two minutes, sir.
MR. BEAL: So, once again, here we are. Mask mandates.
We all know they don't work. We know there's 100 years of clinical
studies they don't work.
Penny, you're a hypocrite. You know they don't work. Here
you are in public without a mask. Same as Pelosi and everybody
else.
You come to this meeting in the morning without a mask. You
go without.
Andy, you ran as a Republican. You're Democrat all the way.
Saunders, Penny, what? What are you doing masking everybody?
It's unhealthy. We know it. People are getting mouth diseases from
it. They're in the hospital. It shows it does nothing ever.
I will not comply. This county will not comply. If we could
re-call you, we would, but we can't. We looked into it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You can re-call -- I believe you
can re-call --
MR. BEAL: We can't. No, we looked into it. You cannot
re-call. You can resign, and I ask all three of you to resign. You're
not Republicans, none of you. And I'll be damned if you run again
as a Republican, because we know who you are. We see you. We
see what you do. We see how hypocritical you are and what you are
and putting people out of business.
People are going to Lee County to eat because they don't want to
be here. Do you think any of these three cities opted in? No, none
of them. And why do you think they didn't? Because it hurts
business. Every business owner I go to is hurt. I've been hurt.
Everybody has been. And this mask mandate does nothing.
You want to go to a place with happy, fun people and someone
who's making money? Go to Seed to Table. Freedom Friday is
September 3, 2020
Page 76
what we call it because it's a freedom of choice and a choice that you
have taken away from us. You are not Republicans. Republicans
believe in choice. Act like it.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Paul Kardon. He will be
followed by Rick LoCastro, and then Paul Flowerman, and then
Kristina Heuser.
Mr. Kardon, are you with us, sir?
MR. KARDON: I am.
MR. MILLER: You have two minutes, sir. Please begin.
MR. KARDON: Okay. Around the country and around the
state of Florida, there's been more legislation mandating the wearing
of masks. Simultaneously, there's been a decrease in the rate of new
COVID-19 cases. Health authorities, epidemiologists all agree
masks have had a significant role in this decrease.
Concerns against personal freedom voiced by the anti-mask
speakers pale when they should be concerned about the patriotism or
of protecting friends and neighbors, known or unknown, child or
elder from the ravages and possible death from COVID-19.
A unanimous vote by you, our elected officials, to continue the
mandate will go a long way to further decrease the spread of
coronavirus among the residents of our community. You will all
earn the respect and support of our community.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Rick LoCastro. He'll be
followed by Paul Flowerman, Kristina Heuser, and then Robert
Gurnitz.
Mr. LoCastro, you have two minutes.
MR. LoCASTRO: I just campaigned for a year to be a
commissioner, and I'm proud to be the Republican nominee for
District 1 and to --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Congratulations.
September 3, 2020
Page 77
MR. LoCASTRO: -- eventually, hopefully, join you-all up
here.
My comments are brief. This is a public hearing. And the
whole year I ran for office I heard from candidates across all the
different races that it's about the people. The most important part of
the meeting today is citizen comments.
People took off from work. There's people sitting patiently out
in the hall and in buildings watching this on TV. But to hear that
they're cut to 120 seconds because we have to get out of here in a
short amount of time -- I can tell you, when I was a commander in the
military and we had a decision that was this important, we weren't on
the clock. I mean, if you have to sit here till midnight to hear people
that elected you into office, then that's what you do.
So I'm really disappointed to hear that the most important part is
cut, public comments, and to hear people shut off when the light turns
red who have -- who elected you and will elect me into office, to not
be heard, I think, is disgraceful.
I want to echo the eloquent comments of Commissioner Fiala
and Commissioner McDaniel when they spoke about comparing to
other counties. I really think that's critical. And so I would just say
at the next meetings, I would love to be able to sit in the audience as
a citizen and hear those comparisons across Florida. Yet, when they
brought up such an important piece that's missing from this meeting,
it was said, well, quote, we could discuss all kinds of anecdotal
stories. I'm here to tell you those aren't anecdotal. Those are facts.
So in Lee County, when there's not a mask mandate and the
numbers are going down, and there's things at Marco Island
that -- our numbers are going down. Those aren't anecdotal stories.
Those are facts, and I would love the citizens like myself to be able to
be in here and not just hear everything packaged in such a way that
supports the mask mandate but we don't get the outside facts as well.
September 3, 2020
Page 78
So I would just invite the Health Department and others to check
with their peers in other counties so that we can get overlapping
information and really have the commissioners here be able to make
smart decisions.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Paul Flowerman. He will
be followed by Chris Hauser and then Robert Gurnitz, and then Dan
Cook.
Mr. Flowerman, are you with us, sir?
MR. FLOWERMAN: Yes, sir.
MR. MILLER: You have two minutes, sir.
MR. FLOWERMAN: Good afternoon, Commissioners.
My wife and I are homeowners in Pelican Bay, and I am so
delighted and grateful to the three board members who've shown the
courage and patriotism in doing the right thing on this mask mandate.
My wife and I are seniors in good health, but we have a high
risk of very serious illness if we contract the COVID. And we help
protect our fellow citizens (unintelligible) even deadly illness and
after effects by wearing a mask. That's patriotism. That's personal
encourage, particularly in the context of the animosity rather than
con-civil discourse that we face. It's patriotism through and through.
We improve the risk-reward equation by wearing that mask.
We empower more people to venture and reengage with the
community. This virus is still among us, and we have to continue to
do everything possible to get our cases further down. University of
Alabama has over a thousand cases. There are 260 cases among
attendees at the --
MR. MILLER: I think we might have lost him.
All right, sir. Let's move on. We -- next speaker here is
Kristina Heuser. She will be followed by Robert Gurnitz, Dan
Cook, and then Stephanie McCloskey.
September 3, 2020
Page 79
You have two minutes, ma'am.
MS. HEUSER: Thank you. I had also intended to remind
Commissioner Taylor of her comments at the July 23rd meeting
where you said that the 10 percent positivity rate was the bar, and if
we were below that threshold, we could do away with this mandate.
So I hope that you'll stand by that.
And although I think it's silly, frankly, for you-all to think that
this mandate had any direct impact on bringing down or reducing the
number of cases, given the fact that a bulk of the county doesn't have
a mandate, or neighboring county doesn't have a mandate, many of us
in this room, including myself, have never complied with your
mandate. But if you -- if it makes you feel good and you want to
give yourselves a pat on the back, by all means, do that.
But now -- it was reported to us today that the county for the last
two weeks has been at a 5.63 positivity rate. It's time to do away
with the mandate. You've done it. Congratulations. Let us all be
free and make choices about our own health.
And with my remaining time -- hopefully, that's not the exit
music -- I would like to share with you something that happened to
my daughter and I yesterday when we were in a store in Collier
County. And it's just representative of many egregious things that
have happened to us over this last six weeks since we will not wear
masks.
We were in a store, and my daughter wanted to look at
something a little distance away from where I was, so I told her go
ahead. And I see a little commotion occurring out of the corner of
my eye. So I look up, and I see an 80-something-year-old man
taking a photograph of my 16-year-old daughter who had just come
from a boxing class, so was wearing athletic clothes, a short sports
bra, and he thinks this is perfectly acceptable conduct because I'm not
sure he was taking that photo to send it to your Code Enforcement
September 3, 2020
Page 80
Board.
So these are implications of your mandate that maybe you're not
seeing, but I hope that you'll take account of these because my
children have, and I, but especially them, have been followed around
stores, chased out of the stores, treated as walking diseases even
though my children are the ones that get the attendance awards at the
end of the year because they're never absent from school because
they're never sick.
So allow us to continue to make choices for our own health,
please.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Robert Gurnitz. He'll be
followed by Dan Cook, Stephen McCloskey, and Kelly Yahl.
Mr. Gurnitz, are you with us, sir?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: Mr. Gurnitz, are you with us, sir? Check to
make sure you're un-muted. I'll call you one more time. Mr.
Gurnitz?
MR. GURNITZ: Can you hear me now?
MR. MILLER: We can barely hear you, sir. Can you speak
up at all?
MR. GURNITZ: Yes. Can you hear me now?
MR. MILLER: Please go ahead, sir. Just speak very loudly
and close to your microphone.
MR. GURNITZ: Okay. My name is Bob Gurnitz. I'm a
resident of Marco Island.
I applaud you on your recent mask requirements vote, and I
would like to strongly encourage you to extend that mandate.
There's no question that wearing masks does reduce the spread of the
virus. I say this having spent a lot of time reviewing the scientific
literature.
September 3, 2020
Page 81
As many as 40 percent of people infected with the virus that
causes COVID-19 may have no symptoms, but when they talk,
cough, or sneeze, they can still spread the virus to others in the form
of respiratory droplets expelled into the air. Those droplets
evaporate into fine particles that may linger. The masks trap these
larger particles before they can evaporate. So wearing a mask
regularly will prevent spreading at the source, even when we don't
know we're sick.
I feel that I am quite qualified to express this overview. I hold
bachelor's, master's, and Ph.D. degrees from MIT with extensive
technical research background. How can anyone debate the fact that
a mask will reduce the spread of ones carrying the virus? People
suggesting the other are not thinking this issue through.
Alternatively, they're not thinking of the community. It is a
very small effort to help improve the health of the community. If we
don't have a healthy community, we'll have no economy.
So it is a win-win to go forward with an extension of the mask
mandate. Please vote yes on the resolution to extend the mandate.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker listed is Dan Cook. Now, I
had Daniel Cook earlier; is this the same?
MR. COOK: Yeah, it's the same. I'm not sure how it got
mixed up. Is it okay if I cede -- allow Mr. Jim Boatman, who gave
up his time a little earlier?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah, he's calling the speakers.
If Mr. Boatman has a schedule problem, we can call him up. But,
otherwise, let's --
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker, then, will be Kelly Yahl,
followed by Stephen McCloskey, Jaime Bollinger, and Karen
Conrath.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I thought -- didn't you say he
September 3, 2020
Page 82
should go first?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No. He's calling the speakers.
Somebody in the audience wanted to change the order. He's going
in the order in which they signed up. If Mr. Boatman has a
particular problem, we'll accommodate him but, otherwise, let's move
forward.
MR. BOATMAN: It would be helpful if I could go because I
do have a meeting.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
MS. YAHL: It's okay with me if he goes first.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Go ahead. If you'd finish your
comments, we'll get to Mr. Boatman. Thank you.
MS. YAHL: Three minutes into two.
Hand washing is and always has been the best way to prevent
infection, and because nobody's washing their hands, every time they
touch their face --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Pull your microphone down so
they can hear you. There you go.
MS. YAHL: And because nobody is washing their hands every
time they touch their mask, they're defeating the purpose of wearing
one.
A mask is a trap, and any virion particles that hit the mask fibers
instead of the space between the fibers is creating a contaminated
environment that you are now carrying around on your face.
Anyone with a medical degree should know that the
electrochemical reactions that take place within the self-facilitating
viral replication occur the most efficiently in an acidic environment.
They should also know that re-breathing Co2, proven in randomized
control studies with laboratory tests to happen increases cellular
acidity.
By wearing a mask, you're not only making a better environment
September 3, 2020
Page 83
for viral replication at the cellular level; you are decreasing oxygen,
increasing cortisol, and depleting your immune response.
In patients with chronic pulmonary, cardiovascular, renal, and
autoimmune disease, wearing a face mask exacerbates their
pathology. In healthy people, it makes it more likely for them to
become infected.
A medically educated person should also further understand,
like urine and feces, expired air is a toxic waste product. Wearing
face masks is very much like wearing a diaper on your face. Not
coincidentally, Dr. Anna Lee Chun from John Hopkins University
Dermatology Department recommends that healthcare workers wear
diaper rash cream on their face to protect themselves from
irritational, infectious, and enzymatic dermatitis. If healthcare
workers can't protect themselves from these things wearing masks,
what makes you think this isn't going to explode among our kids in
schools wearing masks seven to eight hours a day?
Please let this thing expire and don't do it again.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, at your pleasure, Mr. Boatman
will be next, followed by Mr. Stephen McCloskey, and then Jaime
Bollinger, and then Karen Conrath.
MR. BOATMAN: Would it be possible for me to use an
overlay so that I can show some information that I have?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you'll hand that to Mr. Ochs, he
can put it on the overhead.
MR. BOSI: Thank you, sir, very much.
I would like to start with this slide, please.
This seems to be something of a holy grail in that this is actually
a case-by-case comparison of county by county of what we've seen
over the last several weeks, and it includes counties that have the
mask mandate and those that don't. And I think that you will see
that there is a similar precipitous drop in the number of COVID
September 3, 2020
Page 84
cases. How that escapes our Health Department and hasn't been
provided to the decision-makers on this Commission is an omission
that really has to be looked into.
I'm really only here to speak to Commissioner Penny Taylor
because I think she's probably the only one up here who may be
conflicted. Now, I am anti-mask, and I think that when you
voted -- when you flip-flopped and you voted, I think that while you
didn't believe in the mask, when you said the truth doesn't matter,
what you meant to say was, the truth doesn't matter to a bunch of
people that are getting on my phone and calling me who are actually
afraid of something. So why don't we just wear a mask to help them
with their fear.
I think it was heroic of you to flip-flop in some ways, as
misguided as it was, but I hope that you would now, in retrospect,
and in light of the science, that for some reason people think that isn't
out there. We have the most direct science you could have. Those
are actual numbers you can see them -- that in light of this
information, you would make a bold move and shift back to where
you were to a place of conservatism, a place of liberty, a place of
freedom and follow your instincts, because noble
leadership -- history's going to look back and vindicate you. Even if
you have a period of time where there's some political problems, see
it through. Do what you know to be right.
We're watching. The silent and quiet majority, we're here, and
we're patient. And there's plenty of grace on our side of the fence to
let bygones be bygones if you'll do the right thing and vote against
this. I'm begging you.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Stephen McCloskey,
followed by Jaime Bollinger, Karen Conrath, and then Mike Cisek.
Mr. McCloskey, are you with us, sir?
September 3, 2020
Page 85
MR. McCLOSKEY: I am. Can you hear me?
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir. You have two minutes. Please
begin, sir.
MR. McCLOSKEY: Okay. Thank you.
The data shows that the infection rate and positivity rate for
COVID-19 has significantly declined since the emergency order was
passed. This fact shows that the order is working and that it is
having its intended effect to slow the spread of the coronavirus.
All of the public health and medical experts have urged the
adoption of mask orders to help slow the spread of the virus. Why
are they doing that? What is in it for them? Are they in somebody's
pocket? They're hired and they work to protect our interests, our
public health, and they're all saying the same thing, have a mask
mandate.
The studies done today confirm that wearing a mask works to
protect the mask wearer but, even more importantly, it protects those
around the mask wearer.
Wearing a mask in public spaces is now becoming a learned
behavior. I shop at Walmart, Sam's Club, and Publix. The wearing
of masks in those places is universal. Wearing a mask is a sign of
respect for our fellow Collier County residents and guests.
It is a civic duty. Remember when we actually valued civic
duty to protect and help each other? Let's not go backward now but
move forward by extending the order and then reassess the situation
based upon the then prevailing data and the sound advice and
recommendation of our public-health experts. After all, no one has
been shown to have been harmed by wearing a mask.
As today shows, the elevation of ignorance over science and
medicine is truly astounding.
And I just want to say one more thing: Commissioner
McDaniel's comment about Commissioner Saunders, Solis, and
September 3, 2020
Page 86
Taylor suggesting that they want to be rewarded by having their fees
paid for bad behavior is just a mean-spirited comment unworthy of an
elected official.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jaime Bollinger. She'll
be followed by Karen Conrath, Mike Cisek, and Steve Mason.
You have two minutes, ma'am.
MS. BOLLINGER: Thank you.
This mandate is not about an infection. It's about an election.
The commissioners who voted in favor of the mask mandate on
Tuesday, July 21st, specifically Burt Saunders, Andy Solis, Penny
Taylor, are playing politics with our health.
Masks simply do not work from protecting us from the virus,
and the suggestion that they do is both dangerous and negligent.
On July 16th, 2020, Dr. Sherri Tenpenny published an article
where she analyzed medical literature searching for scientific proof
that masks do what we are told they do, stop the spread of the
infection and protect the person who wears the mask from becoming
ill.
After reading 50 articles, this is what Dr. Tenpenny concluded.
There are no randomized controlled trials with verified outcomes that
show a benefit to healthcare workers or community members for
wearing a mask or an N-95 respirator. There is no such definitive
study.
Likewise, no study exists that shows a benefit from a broad
public policy to wear masks. Furthermore, coronavirus particles are
less than 0.125 microns in size. Masks and respirators filter particles
.3 to .8 microns in size. That means the holes in the mask are
between 2.4 times and 6.4 times larger than the virus. To paint a
visual picture, many people have used the analogy that this is like
trying to stop mosquitoes with a chain-link fence.
September 3, 2020
Page 87
So if masks don't work and they pose a threat to our health, why
are you requiring us to wear them? Have you fallen victim to the
propaganda that we're all in this together? Or perhaps you subscribe
to the falsehood that my mask protects you and your mask protects
me. Or maybe you've been bought and paid for by some wealthy
Port Royal elite or hospital, such as NCH.
Whatever your reason is, it is scientifically and morally wrong.
I urge you to examine the facts and your conscience and cast your
vote against extending this asinine mask mandate.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Karen Conrath. She'll be
followed by Mike Cisek, Steven Mason, and Keith Flaugh.
Mr. -- excuse me. Karen Conrath, are you with us, ma'am?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: Ms. Conrath, are you with us? Please make
sure you're un-muted. Last call, Ms. Conrath.
We will move to Mike Cisek here in the room and then Steve
Mason and Keith Flaugh.
MR. CISEK: All right. Thank you, everyone.
Two minutes, okay. Well, this mask mandate, in my eyes, has
always been a solution in search of a problem.
Let's face it, I mean, most people didn't start wearing masks
because they studied available evidence to determine COVID was
high risk or masks were effective. They did it because someone on
TV told them to.
My job is to analyze and publish fact-based peer-reviewed
research. And I can tell you, I'm more of an expert in data analysis
than the people that were paraded around in front of you today and
the people that you see in the news on a daily basis.
You cannot examine data and make decisions with any inherent
bias. This applies to politicians, people in healthcare and, most
importantly, the 20-somethings you see in front of the news and
September 3, 2020
Page 88
behind the cameras on local and national outlets.
I've watched the media stoke fear and hysteria with inaccurate
and irrelevant data points, such as case numbers and conflate things
like rise in overall hospitalizations with those specific to COVID as
well as deaths inside and outside long-term care while ignoring things
like the low morality rates, the inaccuracy of testing, the financial
motivation of hospital administrators to pad numbers to increase
Medicare reimbursements, the near zero mortality rate for
asymptomatic cases and those under 50, the causal link between
comorbidities and death and, most importantly, the fact that there's
correlation between case numbers and death rates outside
long-term-care facilities.
When this all started, the mantra was "facts over fear," but I've
seen decisions based solely out of fear.
So here's the facts: As of September 2, 180 deaths in Collier
County, of which 45.5 or 82 were in long-term case. That means
we're talking about 98 deaths with a mortality rate of .00251 or 24
per hundred K with an average death of 78 years, higher, actually,
than the average life expectancy for a male in the county.
And the mask mandate, since it's passed, 43 people have died.
Higher counts than in April, May, and June; 31 of those were
long-term care.
The CDC, again, that sort of 2.6 conditions per death, when you
look at the seniors in Collier County, comorbidities, 45 percent are
obese, 24 --
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Sir, your time up. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker, we'll try Karen Conrath one
more time, followed by Keith Flaugh, Steve Mason, and Beth
Sherman.
Ms. Conrath, is that you, ma'am?
MS. CONRATH: Yes, it is.
September 3, 2020
Page 89
MR. MILLER: Okay. You have a second source playing
audio in the room. If that's another computer or a TV, you'll need to
mute one of those, ma'am.
MS. CONRATH: Oh, okay. Hold on. How's that?
MR. MILLER: We'll try it out. You have two minutes.
MS. CONRATH: Is this okay now?
MR. MILLER: No. We're going to mute you and move on
here in the room. I'm going to ask my technician to work with you
online.
Keith Flaugh will be your next speaker, and then we'll move
online to Steve Mason, and then Beth Sherman, and then we'll try
Karen Conrath again.
Mr. Flaugh, you have two minutes, sir.
MR. FLAUGH: My name is Keith Flaugh of Collier County,
Marco Island.
I have two comments, and I'm disappointed that the chairman
isn't here.
Rather than doing another unconstitutional mask mandate, let
me suggest you do something real. Why don't you pass a resolution
to support hydroxychloroquine and then use some of the CARES
money you have to go buy a supply and then put on your website that
you support citizens who wish to have this and advertise the doctors
and the pharmacies who are willing to provide it. How many of you
are taking hydroxychloroquine?
Second, I want to speak to the three who just voted to fund
themselves with the support for your lawsuit. I think it's
unconscionable and it violates your, if not legal, your ethic
responsibility. Every time you have one of these hearings, you're
required to state your conflict of interest. All three of you have a
serious conflict of interest. You're going to benefit personally from
this -- from my taxpayers [sic] going to pay for your lawsuit which
September 3, 2020
Page 90
was, in my view, very unconstitutional to begin with.
So please recuse yourself.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker, we're going to go to Steve
Mason and then Beth Sherman, then we will try Karen Conrath one
more time, and then Scott Sherman.
Mr. Mason, are you with us?
That's not going to work, Oscar.
Steve Mason, are you with us? Do we have Mr. Mason
available?
MR. MASON: Yes.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Mason, you have two minutes, sir. Please
begin.
MR. MALLORY: Thank you. Good afternoon,
Commissioners. I'm a Harvard and Hopkins trained licensed
physician practicing in Collier County. I also did an infectious
disease research fellowship at NIH when Dr. Fauci was head of the
department. I've also recently completed the Hopkins course in
contact tracing for COVID.
I support the Collier County mask regulation.
COVID-19 is a deadly disease. Here are the facts. If people in
their 70s and 80s become infected with the virus, they are 100 times
more likely to die from it than people in their 20s. The science is
absolutely clear that mask-wearing indoors protects the wearer and,
even more, it protects others.
The CDC and W.H.O., internationally recognized bodies,
recommended mask-wearing. Here's a true and recent example. In
Kansas in the 15 counties that followed the governor's mask mandate,
test positivity fell to one-quarter the previous level in over -- just over
six weeks. Positive tests in 90 other Kansas counties that did not
follow the mask mandate persisted at four times higher level.
Coronavirus is predominately transmitted by aerosols and
September 3, 2020
Page 91
droplets that we know can travel farther than six feet and can persist
longer than an hour indoors. Science has proved that spread is
inhibited by mask-wearing.
We all readily accept the restaurant rule: No shirt, no shoes, no
service. We know and accept that driving drunk is a threat to
everyone's health. Mask-wearing in the face of this devastating
pandemic is a public-health issue, a matter of decency, respect, and
civic responsibility. It has nothing to do with politics or the
Constitution.
Collier County citizens are entitled to expect that their leaders
will act responsibly and continue the Collier County mask regulation.
They deserve nothing less. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Beth Sherman, then we
will try Karen Conrath one more time, Scott Sherman, and then
Roanna Handy.
Now, before you begin, sir, Ms. Conrath, if you're listening to
me right now, you can only have one audio source on. So if you
have two computers or a TV and a computer on, you'll need to mute
all of those but one computer. Thank you.
Ms. Sherman, you have two minutes.
MS. SHERMAN: I am thankful to those of you who vote to
continue the mask mandate today because you have exposed
yourselves. It is not your job to police my health, especially as more
and more info and updated statistics from the CDC come out.
It is clear this plan-demic is over. So clear that millions around
the world, in Germany, London, and Canada, are marching and
standing up to this tyranny to end the fake pandemic. People are
waking up. The social experiment on how far you can push us is
over.
Not once did anyone ever suggest how we can protect ourselves
other than these stupid masks and social distancing. Building your
September 3, 2020
Page 92
immunity is the only way to protect yourself. Funny how the media
and the doctors never, ever suggest such a thing. It's our personal
responsibility to take care of these bodies that God gave us. I will
never look to you or anyone else to protect my health.
Yes, many are still hypnotized and waiting on a vaccine, a
vaccine that has the potential to kill many more than the virus. They
are scared, and I understand and have compassion for them.
You are supposed to be leaders of this community, and yet all I
see you doing is taking away our God-given rights; the right to
breathe unrestricted area. You are not elected to govern my health
or anyone else. You are elected to uphold the Constitution of the
State of Florida and the government.
I do not consent and will continue to disobey the
unconstitutional orders that you put in place.
God bless the United States of America where our freedoms and
rights are protected by the Constitution.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker will be Karen Conrath,
followed by Scott Sherman, Roanna Handy, and then Dean Parave.
I think I'm pronouncing that correctly.
Ms. Conrath, are you with us?
(No response.)
MS. CONRATH: Ms. Conrath?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: All right. Oscar, let's -- sorry for the
curveball. Let's move to Roanna Handy, followed by Scott
Sherman, and then Iris Shur, and then Dean Parave.
Ms. Handy, are you with us? Roanna Handy?
MS. HANDY: Correct. I'm here.
MR. MILLER: Please begin. You'll need to speak up as loud
as you can. You'll have two minutes.
MS. HANDY: Hi. Can you hear me?
September 3, 2020
Page 93
MR. MILLER: Yes, ma'am.
MS. HANDY: Hi. Yeah. I live in Pelican Bay, and we have
one of the lowest numbers of cases in all of Collier County, and it's
because people here wore masks way before you passed a mandate.
Before you passed the mandate, people here from Pelican Bay
would not go to other areas for any reason. We wouldn't leave
Pelican Bay because other people were not wearing masks.
I thank you, Commissioners, for voting for the mask mandate.
It has allowed me and my friends to, once again, go out to restaurants
and shops and hairdressers and have a somewhat normal life without
fear of catching this terrible disease.
It is shocking to me that people can be so vitriolic about not
wearing masks.
I thank you again for being so brave and patient to listen to these
horrible people that speak with such ignorance about their rights to
not wear a mask and go around infecting people. We heard the same
nonsense about seat belts.
And so, I implore you, based on science and not rhetoric, to,
once again, vote to keep the mask mandate.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Scott Sherman. He'll be
followed by Iris Shur, and then Dean Parave, and then we'll try Karen
Conrath one more time.
Mr. Sherman, you have two minutes, sir.
MR. SHERMAN: Thank you.
This is the third time I've spoken to this commission on the issue
of masks.
I'm a bioengineer for 36 years, and I'm here a third time hoping
that I can get some basic understanding of microbiology to you guys.
We're covered with trillions of microorganisms, right now,
everyone. They're on every surface you touch or every cubic inch of
September 3, 2020
Page 94
soil and water worldwide. Anyone here -- any medical person will
tell you that.
We're designed to interact with them. We're supposed to be
using our immune system like a muscle. If you don't work out your
muscles, they do not get strong.
Most of these microorganisms actually help us. We need to be
trading microbes with other humans. Do you guys remember Blue
Zones? Everybody was about Blue Zones a year ago. A big portion
of that was social interaction. You need to have social interaction.
And I do not consider someone wearing a big mask to be socially
interacting with me. They're covered up. I can't see them. I can't
see any of you people. Thank you. I love the guys that aren't
wearing a mask.
Let's talk about the CDC. Right now they can only prove that
6 percent of the reported deaths are actually COVID, okay. The
96 percent of those they report are COVID deaths had COVID.
They had two to three comorbidities each. This is data right on the
website.
So what I'm going to do is I'm going to declare that the China
virus right now here is mostly peaceful because the really bad bugs
don't need to be artificially inflated. Look at the thousands of cases
where the people were -- get out of line and they get positive COVID.
It's all inflated. It's all a joke.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Iris Shur. She'll be
followed by Dean Parave. We'll try Karen Conrath, and then
Dr. Donald Malnati.
Ms. Shur, are you with us, ma'am?
MS. SHUR: Can you hear me?
MR. MILLER: Yes, ma'am. You have two minutes. Please
begin.
MS. SHERMAN: Great. I'm very serious about my pro-mask
September 3, 2020
Page 95
position. Perhaps the following will express my stand in a more
light-hearted and memorable way. When checking out the cons and
pros of mask-wearing over your mouth and nose, one major pro
seemed to make the most sense even if you tend to be on the fence.
Our medical experts, and even my GP, said it would protect you and
me. But if you're looking at the other side, the factors seem to be
based on pride.
No doubt the masks mess up our hair and fog up glasses to our
despair. They catch on hearing aids and make breathing tough. For
many of you, those reasons are enough.
I'm sorry. I weighed all sides, and saving a life overrides.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: All right. I guess that was it.
Your next speaker is Dean Parave, to be followed by Karen
Conrath, Dr. Donald Malnati, and then online we have a person that
just gave their first name named Teri.
Dean Parave, you have two minutes, sir.
MR. PARAVE: All right. Thank you.
You know, I'm pretty appalled by what's going on. At first we
sat as concerned citizens, wanted to figure out what's the best way to
navigate through this whole COVID thing. And then we realized it's
not quite as dangerous as we thought it would be.
And I'm appalled at your cowardness that I see with your mask
on. I don't blame you's for wearing a mask. I'd be hiding my face,
too, if I done what you did.
It's absolutely horrendous what you're doing to these people. I
am a business owner, and I'm telling you our families are starving.
You sit here with your jobs, and right now I'm telling you, we are
being peaceful. And you better be happy that we're good, peaceful
citizens, but it's not going to be peaceful much longer. And that's
not a threat. I'm not a criminal. I never was a criminal. But I'm
September 3, 2020
Page 96
telling you, your citizens are going to turn into real concerned
revolutionary citizens real soon.
And no one is going to say that, because I'm probably the only
person that has the balls to tell you this. We're organizing, and we
will work with law enforcements or we'll work without them, and
you're not going to stop us. When time comes -- because our
families are starving. And if you don't hear the seriousness in my
voice, I hope you open your ears and absolutely listen to me what I'm
saying, because there's a million people like me, and you're not going
to stop us.
Open the county. Let us citizens do what we need to do. Let
owners of businesses do what we need to do and feed their families.
Take the mask off. Quit masking and puzzling our children. The
psychological damage that you're doing to these is horrible.
How do you feel about the people that committed suicide
because they lost their jobs? You people are amongst the greatest
hoax ever pulled among the American people.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker -- we're going to try the
Conraths one last time. We had both Karen and Richard Conrath
registered. We're un-muting Richard Conrath right now. He will be
followed by Dr. Donald Malnati, and then Teri, and then Michele
Kelly.
Mr. and Conrath, are either one of you there?
MS. CONRATH: Yes. Can you hear me now?
MR. MILLER: Yes. Just speak up, please, ma'am.
MS. CONRATH: Oh, thank you.
Thank you to the three intelligent and patriotic commissioners
who --
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: It was a video that Alfie sent us all.
MS. CONRATH: In this time of divisive and vicious politics,
September 3, 2020
Page 97
not wearing a mask can become a symbol of Americanism and
wearing one could infer socialism --
MR. MILLER: Ma'am, I don't mean to interrupt you, but we
can barely hear you at this point. Can you speak any louder or closer
to a microphone, please.
MS. CONRATH: Okay. Hold on. I'll turn up my mic. Can
you hear me now?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No.
MR. MILLER: You're going to have to speak louder than that,
or we won't be able to hear you, ma'am. I'm sorry. I've boosted all
levels at this end, ma'am.
MS. CONRATH: Okay. How's this? How's this?
MR. MILLER: No. I'm sorry. The Commissioners cannot
hear you. I will have my technician work with you off-line and see
if we can come up with a different resolution. I'm sorry, ma'am.
Dr. Donald Manalti -- Malnati, excuse me, followed by Teri
online, Michele Kelly, and then we will have a phone-in online.
Mr. Malnati, you will have two minutes -- or, Dr. Malnati, I'm
sorry. You will have two minutes.
DR. MALNATI: You pronounced it perfectly, too. That
means born to work.
And I'm a retired physician. I'm going back to work. But,
anyway.
I'm embarrassed by my profession. We don't really take good
care of people. If you can compare the United States health with
every other industrialized nation, we're dead last. We've been
influenced by big pharma, of course. Anyway.
I had a large clinic in Tampa. The average physician, according
to JAMA, Journal of American Medical Association, says, the
average physician sees 22 new patients a year. I saw 20 new
patients per week. But my job was to keep them out of the hospital,
September 3, 2020
Page 98
and I taught them how to become healthy. I haven't been sick from
anything, not even a cold, since July of 1976, because I do things that
make myself healthy. My whole family never gets sick.
And I should not be healthy. I carry a tuning fork with me
because a gang -- a guy in a gang was so angry with me because my
team beat his team in football that he hit me in the cricoid cartilage,
which is the way gangs kill people. Cricoid cartilage -- if you look it
up in Wikipedia, it's a good example. It has one ring in it that, in
Greek, says it's ring. But that's what cricoid means. I almost died
when he hit me because it -- oh, gee.
Anyway. I have to use this to show how I'm progressing with
it. And if I wear a mask, it actually limits my oxygen and, yet, I
cannot go into a place now without -- without a -- I have to have a
mask? And that's going to kill me.
I even carry an electronic thermometer. I've tested every person
that's ever came to me that said they had tested positive. Wrong.
Not one of them was correct. So the numbers are wrong.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm sorry. Your time is up, but
there are exemptions for people that cannot wear a mask, so
just -- that's -- but, I'm sorry, your time is up. I'm just letting you
know that there are --
DR. MALNATI: Okay.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is remote is --
DR. MALNATI: I'm glad you told me. Because my own
bank --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Check with the County Attorney,
but not right now, all right? Let's move on.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker online is Teri. I do not
have a last name for her; followed by, in person, Michele Kelly; and
then a phone number online ending in 4700. I will not give out your
whole number; and then Dr. Frank Schwerin.
September 3, 2020
Page 99
All right. Teri, are you with us online?
MS. DOLIN: I am.
MR. MILLER: Please, ma'am. You have two minutes. Can
you state your first and last name for the record, please.
MS. DOLIN: Teri Dolin. I'd like my three minutes since I
signed up for three minutes. Can I get my three minutes?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ma'am, we've limited everybody
to two minutes, so please do your best.
MS. DOLIN: You didn't limit all the people in the beginning
that came on here, and so I'd like my three minutes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're going to start the timer.
You have two minutes.
MS. DOLIN: Okay. My husband is a Collier County deputy.
I am tired of hearing that people are saying that just because you
don't want to wear a mask or just don't want to -- you just don't feel
like it, you need to know that your deputies cannot see through their
glasses because they're fogged up because it was 111 heat index
today.
Do you know they cannot communicate very well through the
mask on the radio? There are a lot of things that put them at great
risk, and you need to know about it.
Not only that, you are marginalizing and taking away the
freedom of vulnerable special-needs people, children and adults. I
hear you say there are exceptions, but there aren't exceptions, because
there is mask shaming and all kinds of stuff going on.
What are you going to do, go to the doctor and say, because
someone was trying to rape me and had their hand on my mouth that
I can't wear a mask? There are foster children who have been
abused who have been gagged. There are autism people with
sensory problems. There are people with breathing abnormal -- all
kinds of things.
September 3, 2020
Page 100
I was in the dentist the other day, and an elderly woman came
in. Her teeth were knocked out because she passed out from the
damned mask, and then she had to get her teeth fixed. They were
broken in half.
Don't tell me there aren't problems with the mask. These masks
are dirty. Little kids are taking them off in school, laying them on
the bathroom floor while they go to the bathroom. They're picking
them up and putting them on.
Today the heat index, at a 111. Lely Elementary tried to take
those kids out to recess. Had to bring them in. You know why?
They couldn't breathe. They were out in the heat, and they couldn't
even have recess because of the masks.
There are health risks to the police, to all kinds of people. Now
you're asking the stores to hire people to man the doors so they can't
let people in. Why? They're afraid. Are you funding the extra
people that those people have to pay? They're -- they have to pay
people to stand at the door and be the mask police because you
mandated it.
Penny Taylor, I'm appalled, when I saw the picture of you with
no mask. You all live in Naples, and I hear the doctors and I hear
the people getting on there saying, I live in Pelican Bay. What is
this; about money?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ma'am, thank you. Your time is
up, but I do want to make one comment. There's nothing in this
order that deals with wearing masks outdoors. No one outdoors
under this order has to wear a mask.
MR. BEAL: Kids wear them.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That is the school board. I'm
talking about an order that is in front of us today. It has nothing to
do with the schools.
MR. BEAL: Stop the mandates.
September 3, 2020
Page 101
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It has nothing to do with requiring
people to wear masks outside.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Michele Kelly. She will
be followed by a remote speaker whose phone number, last four
digits are 4700, and then Dr. Frank Schwerin.
Ms. Kelly, you have two minutes.
MS. KELLY: Thank you.
My name is Michele Kelly, and for most of my life I have lived
and paid attention to contradictions. The only thing I see with this
plan-demic is a contradiction. Fauci comes on and he says, wear the
mask. Fauci comes on, he says, don't wear the masks. CDC comes
on and says, these are the numbers, and they go, whoops, we made a
mistake. The tests were correct. So we have quite a bit of
contradictions that are going on.
As an analytical or anecdotal story, for June and July, camps
were -- they were -- they had camps for children. My grandson went
to camp. He's eight years old. His mother was the nurse. There
were no masks. For the two months that everybody was so
concerned, there were no masks. There was also no COVID.
So I think the hype that is coming along with the children going
to school and having masks is unnecessary, and I think it's a
fear-mongering type thing.
Also, the contradiction with the CDC. The CDC members own
more than 50 patents connected to vaccinations. My, my, what a
surprise. And they definitely will benefit from the vaccine.
This mask mandate, as I see it, seems to be only the
steppingstone from the mask to the mandated vaccine. All of the
people who do want to wear the mask and feel that it's -- feel it's
unnecessary, as myself, are not going to want to take the vaccine
either. But if you don't get them to comply and say, yes, we will
obey, you won't get the vaccines done.
September 3, 2020
Page 102
And Mr. Fauci owns half the patent for Moderna's COVID
vaccine. Alan Dershowitz and Robert Kennedy stated as much. So
who's all benefiting monetarily from this mask mandate, soon to
become vaccine mandate? I would like that answer.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is a remote speaker whose
last four digits of their phone number is 4700; she will be followed
by Dr. Frank Schwerin; and then the Conraths have called in on a
phone this time. I will attempt them one last time; and then Lisa
Dimond.
All right. 4700, are you with us?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: 4700, are you with us?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: Last call, 4700.
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: All right. Dr. Frank Schwerin will be next,
followed by the Conraths, and then Lisa Dimond.
DR. SCHWERIN: Thank you, Commissioners, and thank you
for taking this matter very seriously. I appreciate all you've done.
My name's Dr. Frank Schwerin. I only mentioned doctor -- I'm
retired -- because of these so-called medical experts. We're told to
listen to the experts.
I trained at Columbia University College of Physicians and
Surgeons. I did my residency at Stanford University. I've studied
epidemiology.
We need to look at the facts. It concerns me today that your
employees from the Health Department, Ms. Vick and so forth,
refused to answer Commissioner Fiala's very pointed question;
actually gave you a misleading answer. I spoke with her after you
asked the question. The question was, what are the numbers in
September 3, 2020
Page 103
Marco Island? It should be pretty simple. What are the numbers in
the City of Naples?
She was very evasive, which led me to believe that potentially
the numbers are quite low despite two jurisdictions being excluded
from the so-called mask mandate.
The good news is that there's a lot of voluntary compliance if
you believe in masks. Businesses are doing it. Publix is doing it.
Other chain stores, CVS. So it seems to me that my
suggestion/recommendation to Penny Taylor and to the other
commissioners is to change your recommendation to a strong
suggestion to citizens to wear masks but remove the requirement,
which is not being enforced.
I just had a delicious sandwich out front at your food cart. The
guy was serving it without a mask. People were lined up without
masks 20 feet from the front door. So I think that Alfie Oakes being
the only one getting cited is incorrect.
Now, the numbers here show that Lee County has no mask
mandate. Collier County has a mask mandate. But Osceola County
initiated a mask mandate way earlier in April, but there was a
gigantic surge in July. All the curves are superimposed, as was
mentioned earlier. So the proof is there's zero correlation.
Opening the beaches is also correlated with a drop in COVID
cases. So thank you for opening the beaches. Appreciate it.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker -- we will try the Conraths
one more time, followed by Lisa Dimond, and then John -- oh, I'm
having real trouble reading this. Begins with a C. We'll just say
John C.
Mr. and Mrs. Conrath, are you with us?
MS. CONRATH: I am. Can you hear me finally?
MR. MILLER: We hear perfectly, ma'am. You have two
minutes. Thank you.
September 3, 2020
Page 104
MS. CONRATH: Thank you.
Thank you to County Commissioners Solis and Penny and Burt.
I really appreciate your intellectual and patriotic talk.
Well, in this time of divisiveness, in the politics not wearing a
mask has become a symbol of Americanism; whereas, we are being
called socialist and sociopaths if we choose to do so.
People who are sometimes maybe called bullies, who sound off
about they might stop and help someone in the rain to change a tire
and another who tells her fellow residents, just stay home if you're
fearful or at risk. Just stay home. We don't care about what you
would like to do.
I am reminded of a statement I heard four years ago where
someone stated, quote, I could stand on Fifth Avenue and shoot
someone and have nothing happen to me whatsoever. Well, some of
you now, too, could do the same. You could go on to -- you could
go into Naples, stand on Fifth Avenue, don't wear your mask, and
then walk -- people will walk by. You might sneeze, cough, sing,
spit on them, breathe. No need to shoot anyone; your gun is your
mouth.
And many of these patriots also claim the brotherly love for
others; they feel they're moral, good, and righteous, but is this
unwillingness to wear a simple mask used to reduce the risk to others,
not for yourself, as some people have stated, but to get this deadly
disease and put it to sleep and be moral and good and do your part to
protect our -- to protect others.
And I thank you, again, to the three commissioners and for
holding through to try to get us in. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: That was your last remote speaker. We still
have, updated, 19 in-person speakers left. Your next speaker is Lisa
Dimond, followed by John -- I'm going to take a guess
here -- Cunningham, and then Jesenia Martinez.
September 3, 2020
Page 105
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you'll hand those to the --
MS. DIMOND: I'm Lisa. I'm giving her my spot so she can
do --
MR. MILLER: And who is she, ma'am?
MS. DIMOND: Nadia.
MR. MILLER: Pardon me?
MS. BARSAMIAN: Nadia Barsamian. I stand here today
holding 1,500-plus signatures from Collier County residents that
demand that you do not extend this mask mandate.
Commissioner Solis, Saunders, and Taylor, you are infringing
on our property, primarily our right to right -- right of choice to wear
a mask or not. You are also infringing on our pursuit of individual
happiness and the right to enjoy our liberty. You are seizing our
property to make one class of citizens feel safe at the expense of
another class.
The idea that you are forcing individuals to wear masks because
.01 percent of the population is at risk is an arbitrary seizure of
property.
You all took an oath to support, protect, and defend the
Constitution of the United States and of the State of Florida. You
did not take an oath to protect the people or to keep the people safe.
The oath is to support, protect, and defend the Constitution of the
country and the state. You are not above the Constitution. You are
subordinate to it. Your orders cannot override the Constitution.
They must be made and compliant to it.
Your mandates are unlawful, which means that you have broken
your oath per the 2012 Florida Statute 350.05, and we, the people of
Collier County, demand that you resign immediately. We also
demand that our County Attorney ensure you no longer continue
making unlawful orders. And make no mistake that if this mandate
is extended, we will work diligently to ensure and demand your
September 3, 2020
Page 106
suspension from our governor for your acts.
Lastly, I do not consent to Commissioner Solis, Saunders, and
Taylor using my, our, tax dollars to pay the legal fees that you have
accrued due to your recent transgressions. You have acted
unlawfully and must personally pay for your transgressions.
Thank you for your time.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is John Cunningham. I
hope I'm getting that right. I'm having a hard time with the
handwriting. Followed by Jesenia Martinez and Joe Gonzales.
Is it, in fact, Cunningham, sir?
MR. CUNNINGHAM: It is, indeed. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Thank you. You have two minutes, sir.
MR. CUNNINGHAM: Good afternoon, Commissioners. My
name is John Cunningham, and I am a resident of Collier County as
well as a business owner. I've been in Naples for about seven years.
I come to you today simply as a concerned citizen. I have tons
of friends, relatives, patrons in the area, and I simply speak from my
voice.
I have heard several times in the last 20 minutes that those of us
that are somewhat impaired are not required to wear a mask. I'm an
asthma sufferer, yet more times than not when I go in a business
without a mask and show them my inhaler, I'm refused service unless
I put on a mask. That's just not fair.
I believe that if we take a look at the statistics that you've been
presented with today, whether it's by the Health Department,
concerned citizens, other experts, that you can find it in your hearts to
make a shift of positions. What that looks like is simply saying, hey,
we were right when we made the decision originally, and today we
feel like the right thing to do is simply to let the mandate die at
midnight tonight and to encourage with a resolution, as was
previously stated, that there is a great opportunity here -- for us here
September 3, 2020
Page 107
in Collier County to continue to fight these things off, whether it's
fear, COVID, or division, which is growing and growing day by day,
by simply stating that we urge you as Collier County residents and
citizens to please wear a mask when you can. It's your choice.
With that, I pass.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jesenia Martinez,
followed by Joe Gonzales, and Allen Biles.
Ma'am, if you'll go to that podium over that, ma'am; it's been
cleaned. Then we can clean this one. If we'll alternate from this
point forward.
Ms. Martinez, you have two minutes.
MS. MARTINEZ: Thank you. I'm here to speak to the mental
health effects of the mask mandate cause. I suffer from PTSD that
has not been verified from a doctor. Being a victim of sexual
battery, I absolutely cannot wear a mask. Due to the mask mandate,
I am harassed in stores by store management which just brings up my
traumatic memories.
I should not have to explain my trauma to random employees at
Walmart and Publix in order not to have to wear my mask while
shopping for my essentials.
Every time I have to explain myself, I have to relive my past
trauma. For what? A mask that does not work? A mask that
plainly says in the description it does not protect against COVID-19.
How is this constitutional?
Mask mandate also gives criminal and people with malicious
intent a way to hide their identity.
Through my past trauma, I have learned to be much more aware
of my surroundings so if there was another crime I would be able to
identify the criminal. If a suspect is wearing a mask, I would not be
able to identify them. This also elevates my anxiety.
I cannot even walk into my bank without seeing people with
September 3, 2020
Page 108
masks on. That is ridiculous.
Let us just say that this remedy does not fit the problem. It only
makes things worse. All of this for a virus so horrible that most
infected never even knew they are sick until they are tested, making a
public -- masking the public for a .009 percent death rate is -- in our
county is unconstitutional. We are fast approaching off season here
in Collier County, which slow down the traffic of snowbirds down
here for a few months. If we continue healthy social distancing, we
will achieve the same goal without masks.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Joe Gonzales, followed by
Allen Biles, and then Sue McCoin.
If you'll come over here, sir, and we'll clean that podium.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: May I speak one moment? I
wanted to thank the last speaker for coming in. Whether I agree
with you or not, it took a lot of courage for you to be here, and thank
you.
(Applause.)
MR. MILLER: Mr. Gonzales, you have two minutes, sir.
MR. GONZALES: Thank you. This is not about masks.
This represents our freedom and your legacy as a politician. You are
the go-between between us and an overreaching government. You
will be remembered as a patriot or communist.
Your role is to uphold the Constitution and our rights. Anytime
you make a rule that goes further -- or allow it further away from our
rights, you're moving towards communism.
This is all obviously a government-created hoax. There is no
emergency, or people would be dropping like flies. The CDC even
says up to 90 percent of the tests are false positives, and 80 percent of
the deaths are greater than age 65, and less than 0.03 percent are
younger than 14 years old. Rest in peace to all of the victims, of
September 3, 2020
Page 109
course.
But let me refute two things that were said here. The Medical
Society said that masks are what is causing the numbers to go down,
without an analysis of herd immunity and without considering the
normal cold and flu season. So how is that science?
Number two, let me refute the Chamber of Commerce and what
he said by Mr. Solis. Business is not up; it can't be. The only facts
are that bankruptcies are way up and the gross domestic product in
our country is down by 32 percent. The government even has to
stimulate the economy to get money velocity.
I believe you are part of a system that is inflicting torture. As
defined by U.S. Code 18, Subsection 2340, torture is an act
committed under color of law specifically intended to inflict severe
physical or mental pain or suffering on another person for the
purpose of conformity.
The big picture is that this torture, they're trying to break us and
to be more dependent upon the government. They are literally
creating a communist/socialist system here in America, and they're
going to be introducing a new financial system as introduced by the
Banking for All Act by Sheriff Brown, which will be introduced
January 2021.
Your personal legal liability should include torture. Here is
what I'm formally requiring you to do.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm sorry. Your time is up.
MR. GONZALES: Okay.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Allen Biles. He will be
followed by Sue McCoin, and Christine O'Dowd.
If you'll go over here, Mr. Biles. Thank you. No. Other
podium, sir, while this one's being cleaned. I'm sorry.
MR. BILES: That's okay.
MR. MILLER: And then, Ms. McCoin, when you come up,
September 3, 2020
Page 110
you'll come up to the podium that's being cleaned now.
Mr. Biles, you have two minutes, sir.
MR. BILES: Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Allen Biles,
and I'm a proud patriot of this country.
I'm here to tell you that you were elected -- as many of the other
people that have been patriots that have been here to speak, have
spoken to you about your duty and oath of office.
I represent a family of American patriots. My son served in the
military, my daughter -- two of my sons, my daughter. My son paid
a tremendous price -- thank God not with his life -- to give us the
freedom of choice. You were not elected -- Mr. Saunders, Mr. Solis,
and Ms. Taylor, you were not elected to worry about my health.
That's my responsibility. Nor is it my responsibility to worry about
your health.
You have an oath of office, and I ask you to please keep that in
mind. There's a lot of people who have said a lot of good things here
today about our personal rights and responsibilities. Please allow
this mandate to end tonight.
We're watching, and we will take action if this does not end.
There are a large group of your citizens in this county that are not
going to stand by for this, okay? So, please, please just let this end.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Sue McCoin. She'll be
followed by Christine O'Dowd and Joseph Milne.
Ms. McCoin, you have two minutes.
MS. McCOIN: Good afternoon.
Commissioners, before this meeting started today, you stood and
you pledged allegiance to that flag over there. The Pledge of
Allegiance is not just a group of words to be memorized and recited.
Here's what the pledge stands for. I pledge
allegiance -- allegiance, meaning loyalty -- to the flag of the United
September 3, 2020
Page 111
States of America, and to the Republic -- Republic, a government in
which the supreme power is held by the people and used by them
directly or indirectly through elected officers and representatives who
are accountable to those citizens that elected them and governing
according to the law -- for which it stands, one Nation under God
indivisible, with liberty -- liberty, the condition of being free from an
oppressive restriction or controlled by government -- and justice for
all.
This is the definition of the Pledge. The freedom that is
represented by that flag did not come without a price. Hundreds of
thousands have fought and have died and have been maimed fighting
for our freedom.
I would ask that today you think about that as you cast your
vote. This is not about commerce. It is not about a virus. It's
about our rights. Let those that want to wear a mask do so. Let
those who can't wear a mask or those who choose not wear one
exercise their rights freely without oppression.
Our rights come from God. They're not to be taken away by
government. I would ask that you truly pledge allegiance that flag
represents -- and please vote to not extend the mask mandate.
And with the time I have left, I want to say I'm a cancer
survivor, recently a cancer survivor. I've had 33 radiation treatments
over my left lung. I cannot breathe when I wear a mask. And you
say, well, health conditions, you don't have to be -- you don't have to
wear a mask. Have you tried going into a store? Have you asked
them -- have you had them say to you, I don't care if you have a
health condition? You cannot come in without a mask. Have you
tried it? Have you tried that? You can say all day long that it does
not matter, that people with health conditions are not discriminated
against, but we are.
So I beg of you, please stand for that flag that people have died
September 3, 2020
Page 112
for. I plead with you. I don't know how else to ask you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Thank you very
much.
(Applause.)
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Christine O'Dowd. She'll
be followed by Joseph Milne and Lisa Freeman.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We have 12 more speakers?
MR. MILLER: That's correct. We're at 12 at this point.
Christine O'Dowd.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's try to get through the
speakers. I don't want to hold --
MR. MILLER: Yeah. That's why I'm trying to move.
Christine O'Dowd?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Then we'll take a short break and
get into the budget hearings.
MR. MILLER: Joseph Milne? Joseph Milne?
MR. MILNE: Right here.
MR. MILLER: Please come up the podium over here. Either
podium, frankly.
Mr. Milne will be followed by Lisa Freeman and then Tara
Cute, if I'm reading that right.
Mr. Milne, you have two minutes, sir.
MR. MILNE: Thank you.
I'm not here today to talk about current county numbers, new
info from the CDC, the endless instances of false reporting, or the
political agenda behind COVID. It is clearly evident that we have
been lied to.
I am here to talk about the power or the right to act, speak, or
think as one wants without hindrance or restraint, otherwise known as
freedom.
These lockdowns and mandates have never been about safety.
September 3, 2020
Page 113
They have been about control. Government force has no place in the
free world. We do not belong to this country. This country belongs
to us, the people. You no longer have our tacit approval on this
mandate or any other proposed mandate in the future. We will not
stand by and let hypocrites make short-term decisions that have
long-term consequences that will gravely harm our businesses, our
communities and, most importantly, our children, not only physically,
but psychologically as well.
To the people of Collier County, for tyrants to be strong, citizens
must be weak. We must not stand for this. We must not be weak.
If they, indeed, vote to extend this mandate, then we must
display civil disobedience and be noncompliant when we are out as it
pertains to this. Freedom is our greatest treasure, and we need to
treat it as such.
And to the Commissioners here today, we have the power to
control our own lives, so let us.
(Applause.)
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Lisa Freeman. She'll be
followed by Tara Cute, and then we will try Christina O'Dowd again.
Ms. Freeman, are you here?
Lisa Freeman?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: Tara Cute; Tara Cute (pronunciation). Either
one.
Christine O'Dowd?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: John Melton. I'm pretty sure Mr. Melton is
here. John Melton, will be -- well, I think I've already called this
name. Byron [sic] Holmes will follow John Melton.
Mr. Melton, you have two minutes, sir.
MR. MELTON: We're here again.
September 3, 2020
Page 114
I'm going to take a little bit of my time, and we're going to do
the Lord's prayer, because I think it really needs to be heard right
now. So, everyone bow your head.
Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name; thy
kingdom come; thy will be done; on earth as it is in heaven. Give us
this day our daily bread. And forgive us our trespasses, as we
forgive those who trespass against us. Lead us not into temptation;
but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom and the power and
the glory forever and ever. Amen.
So I hope that what I say comes from God here today.
I came in here very angry today, but I want to just speak kind
of -- I'm going to speak to you, Penny, because I don't think I can get
to them.
Please, you're storing [sic] a hornet's nest here.
All the people that came down here that, basically, were in favor
of the mask that called in, where are you guys? You called in.
Okay. Maybe -- thank you, one, one -- because you're home scared
to death of death. I'm not scared of death. I know where I'm going.
I don't need you to protect me. I don't need anybody in this room to
protect me. I'm okay. A lot of these people are okay.
Do the right thing, Penny. Let it go. I don't know what got to
you, what changed your mind, but something did.
It's not your job to keep -- you're creating chaos in this county.
Now, look, if people want to take and wear the mask, wear it. If it
works so well, if you're wearing it, you're not going to get sick, right?
I mean, that's what you've been saying here the whole time. If you're
going to wear it, you're not going to get sick. I don't want to wear it.
I haven't worn it. I've been out for seven months since this thing
started. I'm in construction. I can't.
Penny, let it go. It's okay. If you reverse your decision, it's
okay, but you are stirring a hornet's nest. It doesn't need to be this.
September 3, 2020
Page 115
If people want to wear the mask, wear it. Go ahead. But don't
enforce -- and don't tread on me. Don't tread on me. If you want to
wear it, wear it, but don't make -- just make it voluntary. But you
don't have to do this. You are going to cause more problems than
you have even a clue.
Please, ma'am, I beg you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Thank you.
MR. MELTON: Don't do this again.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Lisa Dimond, followed by
Bryan Holmes and Kristen Schroeder.
Ms. Dimond, this podium over here, please. You have two
minutes, ma'am.
MS. DIMOND: Thank you.
Hi, I've been a resident here in Collier County for 17 years, a
property owner for 20. I raised two daughters here. I'm a small
business owner, or I was, until COVID, at a loss of over $70,000, and
really difficult to make that up when people are afraid. And I'm here
today to talk about freedom, fear, and shine a little light on the truth.
So when you create this fear of not being safe without a mask,
you are hurting small businesses because people are making different
choices. And the small businesses are not represented by the
Chamber of Commerce, so their opinion actually means nothing.
Come out and look and see what's happening to these small
businesses, and now you're having them police your mandate. I'm a
cancer survivor of seven years. I had a 36 percent chance to be here
today. We have a 99 percent chance of surviving COVID, and
you're making people wear these stupid masks. You should be
ashamed of yourself.
That's all I have.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Bryan Holmes, to be
followed by Kristen Shroeder and Richard Shroeder.
September 3, 2020
Page 116
Mr. Holmes, you have two minutes, sir. Can you please go to
the other podium. Thank you.
MR. HOLMES: Thank you, Commissioners.
I want to really thank you for listening to all the speakers today.
I was -- you know, there's definitely a lot of -- tensions are high,
to say it lightly. There's been veiled threats of violence. There's
been calls to action of, you know, rising up against. And, you know,
it's just amazing to me that this is happening in my -- in the
community I grew up in. Friendships are being torn apart, you
know. It's just really far from what I know Collier to be, or knew. I
don't know. We'll -- I guess we'll see.
I did want to briefly address specifically one thing that I think
everybody can agree on is that the testing, either it's too -- you know,
the data is either overreporting or underreporting individuals. I don't
think anybody's really that satisfied with the level of testing,
especially 75,000, or 75 -- yeah, 75,000 tests recently within the past
three days being released. And although it was vendors'
responsibility, Quest Diagnostics, to, like, oversee those into the
introduction of those tests, the -- there -- I think there's a higher level
of responsibility that we need to call a regional, like, a collaborative
effort independent of the Department of Health with, like, NCH and
other community health systems in order to share the data more
freely and avoid the restrictions that are being placed even on the
county DOH by the State. I would like to just have people look into
that a little bit.
So, thank you for your time.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Kristen Shroeder, and
she'll be followed by Richard Shroeder. Is it Shroeder or Shroeder
(pronunciation)?
MS. SHROEDER: And it depends on who you talk to.
September 3, 2020
Page 117
MR. MILLER: Okay. And then Valentina Corradi.
MS. SCHROEDER: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: You have two minutes, ma'am.
MS. SCHROEDER: Thank you. Thank you for letting us
speak.
I am a registered pharmacist, and I have done my research, deep
research, real science research.
My conclusion is that the masks deplete the body of oxygen
which is essential for not only your health but for life. To me, the
mandate seems somewhere between medical negligence and criminal
to require kids to wear masks and elderly to wear masks. Every
human body requires oxygens -- oxygen, and re-breathing the carbon
dioxide and the toxins that our body is expelling for a good reason
decreases our immunity and increases the risk of strep and staph and
many other kinds of infections.
Employees need to step up and realize that this masquerade is
stealing their health, and they should refuse to be a part of it. I can't
imagine wearing a mask for an entire shift. I don't know what it is.
Is there something with some dark agenda going on here? What is
the goal besides instilling fear and offering false hope to the
uninformed? To cause division and duality between humanity? To
decrease the population? I just don't get it.
Vote no. Remember, the truth wins. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Richard Shroeder, to be
followed by Valentina Corradi, and then Stephen Schroeder.
Richard Schroeder, Schroeder (pronunciation).
Valentina Corradi?
Oh, wait. Mr. Schroeder is here. Mr. Schroeder. Thank you,
sir. Step right up.
DR. SCHROEDER: Log jam out there.
MR. MILLER: And then, Ms. Corradi, if you're here and
September 3, 2020
Page 118
available, go ahead and wait at the other podium. Thank you.
Mr. Schroeder, you have two minutes.
DR. SCHROEDER: Thank you. Richard Schroeder. I'm a
medical doctor, just recently retired; 75 years of age.
You've heard before a speaker by -- more eloquent speakers than
I about the new release of the CDC data by the New York Times, that
was promulgated in the New York Times showing that the
previous -- showing all of the suggestion that perhaps only 6 percent
of all the COVID deaths are due to COVID that were previously
reported, and this correlates very well with what we see with all the
positive testing at the time of death being due to comorbidities and
the fact that the tests for COVID, particularly the variations of the
PCR, the polymerase chain reaction test, have a high rate of false
positive reactivity. This also explains why most patients testing
positive for COVID are not contagious.
And I also would point out to my multiple colleagues who
testified to the contrary earlier, and it's been pointed out, that
correlation is not causality. And I would add to that that you don't
even have to just stay in Florida. Look at all the places in the states
and in the world that have massively different approaches to the
pandemic, such as the state of South Dakota, that absolutely did not
issue or change a thing, and the same with all the Scandinavian
countries that didn't mask, didn't close down the businesses. COVID
rates, same. It's the same thing all over the world with the possible
exception of Germany, West Germany, that got in there very early
with some measures. They had low rates but, you know, it's still
unexplained, and the Germans can't explain it.
So -- whoops, I blew it there. Okay.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Valentina Corradi,
followed by Stephen Schroeder, and Terry Caspersen.
You have two minutes, ma'am.
September 3, 2020
Page 119
MS. CORRADI: Help me, God, to tell what I wanted to say.
Hello, everyone.
And, meanwhile, in Germany, UK, Ukraine, and other countries,
children are back to school, no masks, no distancing, laughing at us
right now, that we are still being played.
You should stop putting fear into people's heads. You made
your decision before this meeting even started, looks like.
You should stop this masquerade. It's a pure insult to put
muzzles on people faces.
I'm a citizen of America, and we, the people, have this to say:
You have violated your oaths of office, and the first responsibility as
elected officials is to protect, defend, uphold, and secure the rights of
the citizens as defined by both the state and federal constitutions.
Your actions violate the natural and constitutional rights of the people
of Collier County. We call for your resignation.
And those who afraid of plan-demic should put two masks
instead. They have nothing to be afraid of. They will be double
protected.
Thank you for not participating in circus masquerade, two of
you; thank you.
You said it's exemption for health issue, but not, okay. City
Furniture, Ashley Furniture, Michelbob's barbecue, doctors' office,
Jamie Weaver (phonetic), Joint Replacement Institute refuse service
for me, okay. I need surgery. I can't walk. Sometimes when my
bone [sic] just stick out, they refuse service. So it's not true that we
have exemption.
Thank you for your time and hope you do right decision.
Thank you for all citizens of America.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Stephen Schroeder,
followed by Terri Caspersen. That is the last two, Mr. Chairman,
but I would like to call the three people that did not answer
September 3, 2020
Page 120
previously. We have had some people in other rooms.
Mr. Schroeder, you have two minutes, sir.
MR. SCHRODER: Thank you.
The silliness is ironic. I walked into here with my wife, and
they told us that we couldn't sit next to each other. I sleep with her,
and I can't sit next to her. This is silly, okay.
Ms. Taylor, I live in your district, okay.
The current mask mandate decision was likely based on science
and data. Why would you base a decision constantly on changing
information or on constant changing information?
I'm one of thousands of Collier County voters standing for
freedom, maintaining our constitutional rights, and fully standing
against the mask mandate.
Physicians and school board people have presented here today
extended presentations. They spoke on beliefs and presented data
which they're paid to research and report on, right? Their
presentations are proof that there's profit to be made from this.
There's no China virus. If there's no China virus, there's less
profit, especially for hospitals, PPE providers, and the lobbyists and
politicians who work with them. Today the bubonic plague of 1910
was mentioned. You know, the Spanish flu they wore masks. Last
time I checked, that Spanish flu's still here. The masks didn't work
then. They don't work now.
The experts paraded in today were likely chosen because of their
studies and medical acumen. With all this acumen and data, one of
the speakers today admitted to faulty testing, okay. And we know
what was recently recalculated by the CDC.
There's also accomplished politicians, constitutional pastors with
acumen. They have beliefs as well based on studying, right? Why
don't you listen to those scholars? It's all over the place, right?
It's almost like there was a -- and I also find it interesting how
September 3, 2020
Page 121
City of Naples and City of Marco don't have mandates but Collier
County does. It's almost like we're trying to lock down the citizens
and placate to the tourists, okay.
There's people out there we're pacifying fear by the masks.
And the best way to help those that are fearful is to help them
confront their fear.
Citizens of Collier County, yes, pro-masks want us
to -- pro-maskers want us to selfishly put the responsibility to the
healthy.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you could wrap up.
MR. SCHRODER: I respectfully say don't comply.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Terri Caspersen, followed
Lisa Freeman, Tara Cute, and Christine O'Dowd. Now, that is my
last call for those last three names.
Ms. Caspersen, please.
MS. CASPERSON: Hi. My name is Terri Caspersen. My
husband, Leonard Caspersen, is from Denmark. My husband's
family is still in Denmark.
This past weekend we got a call from my brother-in-law to
inform us of the second meeting in Germany. Robert Kennedy, Jr.,
was the keynote speaker. He spoke to the biggest crowd in German
history, approximately two million people. I repeat, two million
people this past Saturday with the same message his uncle, President
John Kennedy, brought on June 26th, 1963, to democratic Germany.
This was the second peaceful protest by Germans.
On August 1st, 2020, 1.2 million Germans entered Berlin to
protest peacefully. Did any of you know that this happened in the
world? A few of us knew, because we shared this information.
But the majority of people, I'm sure most of the citizens in
Collier County, didn't even know it happened. They protested the
September 3, 2020
Page 122
masks. They protested the lockdowns. They protested the new
world order.
Germany will not allow history to repeat itself. They recognize
the signs.
In Robert Kennedy's speech, I quote, this is a
pharmaceutical-driven bio-security agenda to enslave the entire
human race to plunge us into a dystopia nightmare where apocalyptic
forces of ignorance and greed will be ruining our lives and running
our children and destroys all of our dreams of dignity we hope to give
our children.
The world has announced we will not let you take our
democracy. And you have heard President Trump tell you. He's
given you the message. Please listen to President Trump. He's let
you know.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Lisa Freeman, followed
by Tara Cute, and Christine O'Dowd.
Ms. Freeman, you have two minutes, ma'am.
MS. FREEMAN: I'm Lisa Freeman. First, to the woman
calling us horrible people, no, ma'am, we're deplorables.
My husband and I, both proud Marines, were made to wear
mask by Uncle Sam. We wore them because they were tried and
true and would save our lives. Your masks are just a muzzle.
The World Health Organization hasn't even been brought up this
whole day. I've been listening for it. The World Health
Organization does not include masks on their "reduce your risk of
COVID-19" information.
We already know Penny Taylor says the truth doesn't matter, so
we already pretty much know how you're going to vote. And for the
commissioner that said that you don't have to wear a mask outside,
September 3, 2020
Page 123
tell that to our kids. Our kids are having to go to recess and PE with
masks on.
Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Tara Cute, followed by
Christine O'Dowd and Lisa Pasler. That is our last speakers.
MS. CUTE: Good afternoon. This is mainly addressed to the
Three Masketeers. I'm sorry, but those are the people I want to talk
to today.
We're all tired. This isn't how we wanted to spend our
Thursday yet again, but here we are. Myself and a group of
wonderful patriots, we're here to fight against this mask mandate.
But if the good people of this county don't show up to fight for our
freedom, how will we reverse this unlawful, not to mention,
unnecessary muzzle mandate? We are so weary of fighting with
you, our so-called leaders, to do the right thing.
With this mandate, you're perpetuating fear, you're perpetuating
distrust in our immune system, and you're perpetuating hatred from
[sic] those who do not wear masks.
I don't know if you're wearing your mask for me, but I don't
expect it, any more than I expect you to go and jog around the block
for me or for me to practice yoga to make your lives healthier. That
doesn't make sense to me.
I haven't worn a mask this whole time except for one when I had
to have my cat put down. They got me at a low moment. It was
either that or have them do it behind closed doors when I sat in my
car.
I didn't get sick, though. I haven't worn a mask. Am I just
lucky? I see people lined up at the McDonald's drive-through in
their cars with a mask on. They're trying to be healthy? That irony
is not lost on me.
What do we need to say to you in order to get our freedom back?
September 3, 2020
Page 124
What exactly do we need to do to breathe freely again? Please tell
me. We inundated you with facts, figures, with data, and with
science. Truth and proof did nothing to sway you to follow your
oath to protect the constitution.
Marco Island, the City of Naples, and apparently Penny Taylor
do not have mask mandates. Why does Collier still have one?
Let us decide whether or not we want our immune system to
handle being out in public. Give us our freedom back. Give us our
rights back. We aren't going to stop the battle. We aren't going to
give up. We don't comply. We are organizing, we're strengthening,
and our sovereignty will prevail.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Christine O'Dowd. She'll
be followed by Lisa Pasler.
MS. O'DOWD: Hi, my name is Christine O'Dowd. Thank
you for letting me speak.
I'm going to take a completely different approach to this in what
I'm going to tell you. I agree that we do not need a mask mandate.
I am a highly compromised individual; highly. And I have
been tortured by people for not wearing a mask; tortured. And I do
not have -- I have the right not to tell people what's wrong with me.
But I have had to.
What happens to my freedom to not let people know what I have
personally going on? You do not have to help me stay well. I will
do that for myself.
I've been living this since the day I was born and now, because
of what rules you've put through over this whole COVID time, twice
I was not allowed in a hospital because of this; twice. Stop and think
about that.
I am now moved to a heart transplant team because of it. My
life has been altered completely.
My son had to go back up north to my ex-husband where he's
September 3, 2020
Page 125
probably being emotionally destroyed right now so that I could get
my health taken care of now by another team of doctors, because you
pushed me to the end of my health. I was doing fine health-wise
until this started.
Do I catch things? Absolutely, because I'm a compromised
individual, and I know what I have to do. That is my job; not yours.
Don't say that you're helping me, everybody, because you can't help
me. Only I can do that, and my doctors can do it with me. You
don't have the ability to.
Those don't work. I've never worn a mask. The best thing I
can do for myself is to keep up my immune system. When you
make me mask, or anybody else, I'm not getting that interaction, and
my immunity is going down, and that in itself will kill me. Do you
understand, from a health perspective, that you can kill people doing
this?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, your last registered speaker is
Lisa Palser.
MS. PASLER: Thank you so much, Commissioners, and thank
you for squeezing me in. I really, really appreciate it.
I'm in favor of you keeping the mask ordinance. Shush, no
comment from the peanut gallery, please.
For those that have problems wearing masks but feel like they
need to, this is a great option. You can breathe wearing these. You
can have mine if you want it. It might really help you. No, her
behind you, okay.
So, anyway. I would ask you to keep an open mind. I want to
thank you three. Commissioner Saunders, Penny, Andy Solis, thank
you for passing that ordinance the last time, and I hope you'll pass it
again.
Thank you for your time. Thank you for putting up with all
September 3, 2020
Page 126
this. God, I don't know how you do. I hope you have pit bulls at
home guarding your homes.
I haven't heard one person say anything about having a family
member diagnosed with COVID and what it feels like. I've heard
people talk about the vanity associated with having to wear a mask
and the discomfort. But I have had three members of my immediate
family, yes, including my mother, who nearly died within the last
couple of weeks, Mary Cooper, who knows many of you well, had to
be taken to the hospital by ambulance because of a positive COVID
diagnosis.
It's real. It's not a hoax. It's not a joke.
I don't need the backtalk. Can anybody respect what they have
asked you the whole time, to be quiet back there?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Please just address us.
MS. PASLER: All I'm going to say is this: If I'm going to
plant a vegetable garden and I want really successful results, I'm
going to be honored if Alfie Oakes will share his expertise with me
because I'll probably have a really beautiful vegetable garden. If I'm
going to want medical advice or I want to be -- I'm almost done -- or
I want to be really healthy, I'm going to be more inclined to defer to
Dr. David Lindner.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you.
MS. PASLER: Thank you so much for your time.
MR. MILLER: That is all the registered speakers we have, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. I'm going to close the
public hearing. We have no further registered speakers.
We do have a budget hearing that we're supposed to start to
conduct at 5:05, 5:00. Obviously, we need to take a break before we
do that.
Do you want to proceed with the budget and then -- I don't think
that will be a very lengthy -- and then we'll get back to the --
September 3, 2020
Page 127
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Shouldn't we just finish this?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. It's up to the Board.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Everybody's here yet.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We'll take a 15-minute
break, and we'll come back at -- we'll come back at 5:15, and we'll
finish up the discussion on the COVID issue, and then we'll get into
the budget hearing.
Mr. Attorney, I'm assuming there's no legal issues associated
with the delay of the budget hearing.
MR. KLATZKOW: No. It has to be done -- no, it has to be
done in the evening, so we're fine.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. So we are in recess until
5:15.
(A brief recess was had from 5:01 p.m. to 5:15 p.m.)
MR. OCHS: Sir, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ladies and gentlemen, please take
your seats.
Is Mr. Solis here?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, let's go ahead and vote.
We can get it over with.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah. This is a good time.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I know he can hear us.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: All in favor?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You were too slow on making the
motion.
All right. Commissioner Solis, I'm going to turn this over to
you again, but before we do that, I want the County Attorney to
spend a minute kind of explaining what this order does and does not
do. A lot of folks have said that they've had trouble at the hospital.
We have nothing to do with what the hospital does. A lot of people
September 3, 2020
Page 128
have talked about different businesses. There are businesses that
require wearing a mask. Our ordinance, if you have a health issue,
does not require that, but we don't control what the businesses do.
For example, Costco, where I shop quite a bit, everyone wears a
mask.
Mr. Klatzkow, can you kind of just spend a minute --
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- on what this order does and
does not do?
MR. KLATZKOW: Let's talk about the issue with the people
with disabilities first, all right, because I've heard a lot of heartfelt
testimony on that. And I wrote this thing, and I specifically
provided that if -- that's the option of the business owner.
The ordinance -- or the order simply says that -- and it's in
Paragraph 4, all right -- if a customer has some sort of disability that
prevents them from wearing a mask, all right, then it's up to the
business owner whether or not they want to permit them in the
premises, all right. There's no mandate there. There's no mandate
in most stores in Collier County from the Board of County
Commissioners --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Klatzkow --
MR. KLATZKOW: -- quite frankly.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- please, just address us.
MR. KLATZKOW: Quite frankly. Publix has their -- may I?
Because I've been listening to you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Klatzkow.
MR. KLATZKOW: Okay. I've been listening to you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Klatzkow. Mr. Klatzkow,
you're addressing us in a professional way. There's been a lot of
heated argument, and we're not going to have it with our staff. So
just -- I've asked you a question --
September 3, 2020
Page 129
MR. KLATZKOW: My apologies.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- and I just want a simple answer
to that question. I'm going to ask the audience not to shout out or
anything again. It's just going to delay things.
So, please, Mr. Klatzkow.
MR. KLATZKOW: We have nothing to do with the school
board. The rules in the schools are that of the school board, not us.
We have nothing to do with the hospitals. Those are hospital
rules, all right.
We have nothing to do with most businesses in this county.
They have their own voluntary rules that they've put on. They won't
let the people in.
What a Target will do, what a Walmart will do, and others will
do is to say, if you don't want to come in here without wearing a
mask, give us a call, place an order. We'll get you into your car.
We'll accommodate you that way, all right.
We don't tell you you have to wear a mask in a car or outside or
anything else. We're asking you to wear a mask in a public -- in a
public building, such as this, and we're asking you to wear a mask in
a business, although most businesses require it anyway.
This is not a criminal order. There is no critical sanctions
involved. It is a code enforcement issue. The code enforcement
issue would be to cite the business, not the individual not wearing the
mask. We would cite the business owner for allowing people
without masks in the establishment.
As the County Manager explained to you earlier --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let me stop you again.
Please, it's going to just take us that much longer to get through this.
We've been here all day. Well, why don't we take a 15-minutes
recess. Let you calm down. We'll come back at 5:30. Everybody
calm down a little bit. We'll be in recess for 11 --
September 3, 2020
Page 130
(A brief recess was had from 5:18 p.m. to 5:30 p.m.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ladies and gentlemen, the
meeting will please come back to order.
Mr. Klatzkow, you were in the process of telling us what this
order does and does not do. And I'm going to ask you to just direct
your comments to the Commission.
MR. KLATZKOW: There is no -- there is no criminal penalty
associated with the order. The order's enforced by Code
Enforcement.
As the County Manager explained earlier, virtually all the code
enforcement violations have been voluntarily cured. We've had very
few citations. We've had widespread compliance.
Personal opinion, mostly because most businesses are doing this
on their own anyway, all right. So what the order does is for those
few businesses that aren't doing this, it puts them in, essentially,
what's best business practices at this point in this country which is
wear a mask when you're shopping, when you come right down to it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Now, the Manager had indicated
that there were some 98 complaints.
MR. OCHS: Ninety-eight confirmed and verified complaints.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Only five citations, is my
understanding.
MR. OCHS: In the last 43 days, yes, sir; five violations issued.
MR. KLATZKOW: It's been a -- we've had widespread
compliance.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. All right. Any questions
for the County Attorney?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And I overheard, which -- so
I'm going to turn to my colleague. Commissioner Fiala, I thought
you had a great suggestion.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, I don't know what it was. I
September 3, 2020
Page 131
was --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: About -- about making it public,
making it not within this document, sir, but to do --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Here's what I said. First of all,
this ordinance is making some people feel like they're vigilantes, and
some people are tattle-tales. I don't know, sometimes I guess it
makes them feel good that they're reporting people. I don't
understand that.
But what I think we should do is clear it up by just writing down
just, as Jeff was starting to tick off, what this means and what it
doesn't mean, just post a list and, you know, this you have to do, this
you don't have to do, and so forth.
MR. KLATZKOW: And I could work with the County
Manager. We could put something on the website, FAQs with
respect to the order.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Just bullet points, though, Jeff, you
know; not a whole written thing.
MR. KLATZKOW: We can do that.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: In English, not legalese, right?
MR. KLATZKOW: I speak English first and foremost.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I mean, that's if we even extend it.
We haven't voted on that yet.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That is true.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That is correct. We will be
shortly, I would assume, one way or the other.
Any other questions for the County Attorney?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I'm going to turn this
over to Mr. Solis. And we're now on a discussion as to whether or
not to let this order expire at midnight or to extend it. If there is a
desire to extend it, then we would entertain any changes to it, if
September 3, 2020
Page 132
necessary. So, Mr. Solis.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Can we have a question?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Solis, I'm going to
turn this over to you.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Thank you. Well, we've heard
from the public. We've heard pros and cons. As I had said a couple
hours ago, I mean, we have -- we're faced with two unknowns that, as
we've seen from other parts of the country, have created upticks in
infection rates.
And I don't know that we need to debate any further what data
we should listen to. I mean, we have our health professionals.
They're supposed to guide us and help us understand the issues. The
decisions and the votes are, obviously, ours. But we have to rely on
the experts, I think, that we hire.
Our medical community is telling us that this is the way to keep
the virus down. Keeping the virus down will keep our schools open.
It will help us save and allow us to have a season, which all of our
businesses desperately need. Our hoteliers need people to come
down here. And it's going to continue the progress that we've made
and make sure that people feel safe coming to Collier County, doing
business in Collier County.
And given the uncertainty of what will happen now that the
schools are open and college students are coming back, I feel that it's
prudent that we extend the mask requirement for another six weeks
rather than come back in another couple weeks and have another 10
hours worth of testimony, which is the same testimony.
If the opening of the schools or something changes in the data,
in the science, and we're told that all is clear, I would have no
problem coming back and rescinding the order. But until something
like that changes, I just don't feel prudent -- it's not a prudent thing to
do to risk -- the risks associated with it are too great, in my mind,
September 3, 2020
Page 133
economically. People's health. Keeping our schools open.
Keeping the businesses open.
I had a discussion with Dr. Patton. They want to keep the
schools open. They want the kids going to school. But if the
numbers rise, they won't be able to do that.
So I would make a motion that the ordinance, as it's written, be
extended until --
MR. MILLER: October 15th.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Till October 15th.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Is that a meeting day?
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: That's not a meeting day. The
13th is a meeting day, but I think we're going to have a full agenda,
and if we have to do this again, then we'd be -- but, you know, the
15th is another Thursday. So I would make that as a motion.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: There is a motion. On the
motion, I understand needing a date. I would suggest we do have a
meeting date on the 22nd of October. That would give this about six
weeks, so --
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Oh, I'm sorry. The --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Or seven weeks; six or seven.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Seven, okay. That's a Thursday.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. We're going to -- again,
please, we don't permit yelling from the audience.
All right. On the motion, I'm going to read a little
paragraph -- two little paragraphs that I think are somewhat
instructive, because there's been a lot of discussion of constitutional
rights, and we are in the middle of a federal lawsuit that alleges a lot
of constitutional issues.
And there was a Circuit Court judge that dismissed a challenge
to an ordinance, and the judge made a couple comments that I think
are appropriate for our discussion. The judge said, because
September 3, 2020
Page 134
extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures, state and local
governments all over America are enacting emergency laws designed
to protect their citizens from the spread of this deadly virus, just like
they did 100 years ago. Circuit Judge Row wrote in his
adjudgment -- in his judgment, again quoting, this ordinance is
authorized not only by statute but by well-settled case law precedent
dating back over 100 years.
And then the judge made some comments concerning an
allegation of irreparable harm because there was a request for an
emergency ruling to prohibit the enforcement of the ordinance. And
the Court said, this court cannot help but note that the only way the
plaintiff might suffer irreparable harm here is if the city's face mask
ordinance is found unconstitutional and the plaintiff, therefore, is
placed in greater risk of contracting COVID-19 because the citizens
of the land stopped wearing face coverings in public. This was
typical of about six other cases that have been dismissed with the
same type of language that we're dealing with.
I also want to point out something that is somewhat ironic.
This is the Naples Daily News Friday, August 7th. And there's a
picture of a Naples firefighter, and it says, Naples firefighter who
died of COVID-19 remembered. And his name is Mr. Christensen;
worked for the department for 22 years. And right next to it on the
same front page is the headline, Oakes files federal lawsuit dealing
with our mandate. I just thought that the -- kind of the juxtaposition
of those two items was somewhat ironic, and I just wanted to point
that out.
I'm going to second the motion and -- I'm going to second the
motion. And we're open for discussion.
Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. Thank you.
I know when we did this before we said until the numbers came
September 3, 2020
Page 135
down, but we heard today how much they've come down. And I
don't see -- being that they're down to 5 percent, and somebody
actually said 4-something, but I'll go 5. And, I mean, that's a great
deal. That's more than we had even expected to happen, and we saw
the maps where all of the different counties around the state of
Florida all were going down. Not just us. Everybody's going down.
And we've seen it around the United States. Everybody's going
down.
So why are we extending it? Why don't we -- why don't we tell
people to use common sense and go ahead and start seeing what we
can do about getting back to normal life?
But if the business wants you to wear a mask in there, say, for
instance -- maybe the restaurants don't because you walk in with the
mask, and you take it off anyway. So maybe the restaurants say we
don't need to do that. But maybe there are other businesses that want
to. So then they could post that. That would be common sense to
them. And if you want to go in and patronize them with a mask on,
fine. If you don't want to, let that go, too. I would think that that
would be something that we could all live with.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Taylor.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: The reason I'm supporting
extending this mask ordinance --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I can't hear you.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: The reason that I'm supporting
this ordinance is for Mary Cooper, a lady who I went -- I have gone
to church with, a lady that I've known for years, and her husband, and
countless other people. I'm doing it also for the children so they
continue to go to school.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Continue on.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I'm doing it for people that I
don't know that are sick.
September 3, 2020
Page 136
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Taylor, please talk
to us. Continue.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Make your statement. You're
talking to us, not to the audience.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Thank you.
And I think that it's extremely important. We're in a very
divisive time in our society, and very -- and it's actually gone down to
us here in Naples, which is stocking in so many of ways to me.
People don't like what you say, so they shout over you so they can't
hear it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And I find it fascinating that we
have stooped to this level in discourse and in public policy.
But for me, this is extremely important to at least give stability
at this point for numbers that are going down. At least -- I've talked
to enough school folks -- school people that, you know, the mask
ordinance is working. Please, let's keep our kids in school.
There's so many reasons to say -- to support this. I don't -- I
believe that the people that can't wear masks are completely free not
to wear masks. I think if we post this on our website, it will help a
lot to make that understood.
And at this point I'm not asking for it for a year or even -- you
know, even six months. This is really a time -- you see, the fear that
I'm hearing from everybody in this room --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Taylor --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: -- is extraordinary.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- let's just talk about the
ordinance.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: But it is. And so --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I can't hear. Excuse me, but I
September 3, 2020
Page 137
can't hear her over here because you're talking so loud over there.
Please, please, don't.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you would stick to the motion
that's in place.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're having comment on that.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I am going to support the
motion for reasons stated.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Well, I'm not sure I'm going
to do much good, but I'm going to try. And I'm going to suggest that
maybe we do the converse of the extension of the mask mandate
because of the discourse, because of the discontent, because of the
fear.
Our community's in a good place right now. Our numbers are
coming down. We saw substantiation that mandate, no mandate,
stay-at-home order, no stay-at-home order. Everybody's numbers,
systematically, as a general rule, are doing the same thing.
And I feel there's an enormous amount of discontent being
created by this decision to force people, to force businesses, to
require masks that be worn within the -- within the proprietor's
establishment.
We've always, as a Board, supported our businesspeople.
We've always wanted to offer assurances to our businesspeople. Our
businesspeople, the ones that want to enforce and ask folks to wear
the masks can do so. We assured them that, Commissioner Solis,
when we turned down your mandate a month and month-and-a-half
ago. We assured that a proprietor that wanted to enforce the mask
was capable of doing that. It didn't require an additional action by us
or this board.
So my proposition is, rather than -- because I'm quite
September 3, 2020
Page 138
certain -- and it was a little bit inflammatory about -- my comment
about rewarding bad behavior, but it certainly can't be argued that it's
not a prudent expenditure of our taxpayers' money. The
mandate -- the lawsuit goes without a mandate.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: The lawsuit does not go.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: The lawsuit does not go away.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It does not. I mean, I don't know
if you've read it. It's a whole lot more than just the ordinance.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So having said that -- having
said that, with the -- our County Attorney -- and, again, you guys are
the lawyers, I'm not. But our County Attorney has said there's not
much of a case without any kind of a mandate.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: That's not what he said.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Commissioner -- I'm sorry
for interrupting you, Commissioner McDaniel. But I just wanted to
make the record clear that there's more to the lawsuit than just the
enforceability of this order.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I think we all understand that. So
go ahead and finish your comments in reference to the order.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: So my proposition is do the
opposite: Lift the mandate and review the item in the public format
and allow folks to come and speak again. This is not a waste of our
time.
My thoughts are, engage our community, let them come and
speak to us. I mean -- you know, I think that it is the -- it is the -- it's
very, very difficult, by the way -- it's very difficult to maintain our
thoughts and our communication with all this background going on.
Our colleagues -- my colleagues have asked for the respect that
was given to all of you, so please continue on with that respect.
Agree or disagree with what's going on, continue on with the respect
September 3, 2020
Page 139
for the decorum. Even for me it's hard for me to keep my focus.
So my thought is, do the opposite. Our numbers are coming
down. They're -- relatively speaking, there's a decent argument to
support not having the mandate. Allow people the choice to wear or
not wear, allow proprietors the choice to mandate that within their
business, and revisit it at our second meeting in September. Not the
second meeting in October, but a month from now; necessarily less
than a month from now. We'll have had three, four weeks of school
opening.
I don't concur, Commissioner Solis, with the decision of the
schools wanting to stay open or not as the numbers go. There was a
mandate from the State that said schools were open.
I applauded Dr. Patton last night on her methodology in
allowing people to have a choice. Your kids don't have to go to
school and wear a mask. They can stay home.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: But she stated that they make their
own rules. We have nothing to do with it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I understand that. But the
rationale was the choice that was afforded by the school district, and
that's -- that was what -- I applauded her last night when I spoke to
her with regard to what the school's decisions have been made.
And I think that's what we're hearing today. Allow for the
choice. If the proprietor wants to mandate for your patronage, they
can do so. And if you don't want to patronize them, you don't have
to put your mask on; you can go somewhere else or get your
groceries delivered.
But do the opposite of what's being proposed.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Any other comments
from the Commission?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'll just comment.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Fiala.
September 3, 2020
Page 140
COMMISSIONER FIALA: That's so fair. That's just fair. I
don't see why we wouldn't do something like that.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I want to clarify what
the motion says. We have a motion and a second. Is that for the
October 13th or October 22nd?
MR. MILLER: Twenty-second.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Twenty-second.
Is there any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If not, I'll call for the motion. All
in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed, signify by saying no.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: The motion passes 3-2.
Commissioners McDaniel and Fiala in opposition.
We have a budget hearing. We'll start the budget hearing at
6:00.
*****
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 5:48 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
September 3, 2020
Page 141
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
___________________________________
BURT SAUNDERS, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST
CRYSTAL K. KINZEL, CLERK
___________________________
These minutes approved by the Board on ______________________,
as presented ______________ or as corrected _____________.
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
COURT REPORTING BY TERRI LEWIS, FPR, COURT
REPORTER AND NOTARY PUBLIC.