CLB Minutes 02/19/2020 February 19,2020
MINUTES
OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD
February 19, 2020
Naples, Florida
LET IT BE REMEMBERED that the Collier County Contractors' Licensing
Board, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 AM in
REGULAR SESSION in Administrative Building "F," 3rd Floor, Collier County
Government Complex,Naples, Florida, with the following Members present:
Chairman: Matthew Nolton
Vice Chair: Terry Jerulle
Members: Kyle E. Lantz
Robert P. Meister
John P. Nuzzo
Patrick G. White
Excused: Michael Boyd
Richard E. Joslin
ALSO PRESENT:
Michael Ossorio —Director, Code Enforcement
Tim Crofts— Supervisor, Contractors' Licensing Office
Michelle Ramkissoon— Supervisor - Operations, Contractors' Licensing Office
Kevin Noell, Esq. —Assistant Collier County Attorney
Jed Schneck, Esq. —Attorney for the Contractors' Licensing Board
Ivan Afanador— Contractors' Licensing Compliance Officer
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February 19,2020
• After the recession in the building industry, her husband worked alone and no
longer had an administrative staff to assist him
• Some of the problems were administrative in nature—a system was not in place
for her husband to utilize
• "My husband is a plumber—he is not a paperwork person"
• Due to illness with both Mr. and Mrs. Marchetti's respective parents,they were
each spending a great deal of time caring for their parents and away from the
business
• She admitted to a lack of oversight by not follow-up on various issues
• Although her husband could not appear due to previously scheduled
appointments, she stated he did not intentionally or willfully violate the building
code.
• Mr. Marchetti was called in to only unhook the old bathtub—there was another
contractor who had been hired for the bathroom work by the homeowner who
also purchased the bathtub.
• Mr. Marchetti was hired to remove tile from the walls and to clean the tiles for
re-use. He disconnected the old tub and connected the new tub. He did not feel
the work he was performing necessitated a permit.
• He now understands that a permit was required and not obtaining one was a
mistake on his part. Lee County had been called in error to verify if a permit was
required—it is not in Lee County while it is in Collier County.
• When he was hired, he discussed pulling a permit with the homeowner and she
refused to pay the additional $250. He worked for four hours plus travel time but
only charged the homeowner$500.
• When the permit was obtained,the cost was $450, and plumbing was required.
• When Code Enforcement contacted Mr. Marchetti, he called the homeowner and
stated she could obtain a permit, but she refused ... even after she was notified of
the violation.
• She stated they paid for permit and have made four trips back to the property and
the plumbing issues were completely abated.
• Mrs. Marchetti stated she is still receiving phone calls from the homeowner
complaining about how much money she was charged.
• Mrs. Marchetti stated the complaint cited the work resulted in flooding to a unit
located below the homeowner's unit. She noted her husband was never notified
of any plumbing issues. If he had been, he would have fixed the problem in the
other unit.
• She stated as soon as her husband received an email from the State, he complied
with everything he was requested to do.
• Mrs. Marchetti stated she received a document(email) from the State indicating
their investigation into the case had been closed.
Michael Ossorio stated he spoke State's Administration in the Fort Myers Office who
told him the case was still pending. He stated the lesson to be learned was that all
Contractors should consult the County to determine if a permit is required and what area
the fees for such permits. There are no exemptions when working in a condominium.
6
February 19,2020
He further stated the Contractor was updating his contact information with the County,
and he had no issues with this Contractor working in Collier County in the future.
Julie Marchetti: My husband could not find his copy of the invoice, but he thought he
had written on it that if a permit was required, the customer would be charged the fee to
obtain it. She stated her husband paid the fee for the permit. We don't do a lot of work
in Collier County—we are a small company in Bonita Springs. We hare strictly word of
mouth—we haven't advertised in ten years so when we do work in Collier County, it is
for people who know us and trust the integrity of our work.
Vice Chairman Jerulle questioned Ms. Marchetti:
Q. Can you summarize for the Board what steps you have taken to prevent this from
happening again? Are you back working as the Administrator of the company or
whatever your title was?
A. I am working my way back into it, yes. I am putting in part-time hours. I went back
to school—an Entrepreneur program—so I can get myself up to speed on running
the business. After being away for 20 years—with the new technology—I am a little
bit rusty. The goal is for me to work full time as the Administrator for the company.
Q. If I call you to do some plumbing work on my house, what steps are you going to
take to find out if you need a permit or not?
A. When I was working with a customer, I spoke to Robert Cornetta, your Chief
Plumbing/Mechanical Inspector, and asked him for the document that I will pass to
you now. (Distributed a two-page document to the Board)
Patrick White: Mr. Chairman, when we get to deliberating on this, I would ask if
Page 129 could be viewed on the screen. It the portion of the Order that I think will
Detail what authority we have and how, procedurally, we can resolve this case.
A. I spoke with Mr. Cornetta and asked him to clarify for me exactly what it is that
does require permitting because the information that covers this is very broad. It's
impractical for people who are doing plumbing and repair work—the way it's been
portrayed to us is anything you do in this County requires a permit. He gave me a
list in an email, and I printed it for you.
• 1. Repair/replace work performed that does not exceed $1,500.00—our job
was for$500.
He gave some very specific things ... repair/replace water closet or a sink, or a
residential disposal ...
Q. You don't have to go through the list ... you've answered my question. And that's
what I was looking for ... that if you have uncertainty, you do know who to call.
A. Yes.
Michael Ossorio reminded Ms. Marchetti that the Chief Plumbing Inspector was not
the Chief Building Inspector and it she has a question concerning whether a permit is
is required, she should consult the Chief Building Inspector's office. The exemptions
that Ms. Marchetti mentioned applied only to residential properties. A condominium
is considered "commercial." If a homeowner lives in a condominium, a permit
is required for any work to be done. For a residential property,the Florida Code has
7
•
February 19,2020
exempted some things, such as minor, inconsequential repairs. The list that you have
has nothing to do with the Building Official.
Vice Chairman Jerulle questioned Ms. Marchetti:
Q. I understand that, but the answer I was looking for—my question was: "What are
you going to do moving forward?" I need assurances that, if I do vote to give her
license back, she will check with somebody to see if a permit is required or not.
That was my question and I think it was answered.
Patrick White: To your business and other businesses, in a condominium, Owner-
Builder permit pulling does not exist.
Julia Marchetti: I discovered that.
Patrick White: So, in addition to the idea that the list you have is great for single-
family residences—hopefully, everyone is getting the message—it is not applicable
within the"multi-family/condominium"type of construction. And though I am sitting as
the City of Naples Consumer Advocate representative on this Board, I find the position
of the consumer to be a little bit challenging to be blunt.
Julia Marchetti: My customer?
Patrick White: Your customer.
Julia Marchetti: Yes, it was very challenging.
Patrick White: So, I put that on the record, and I appreciate having Page 129 being
seen.
Chairman Nolton: And, again, as I understand it, the previous case is done. What's
before that Board now is a Contractor coming back to the Board requesting that we
return his permit pulling privileges in Collier County.
Patrick White: And that why, Mr. Chairman, we looked at the Board's Order, seen on
the screen ... in (b),we definitely revoked the Contractor's ability to pull a building
permit in Collier County, and in (c), we denied the issuance of any building permit
applications until the Board—and here are the key words in my mind—rescinds or
amends the Order. I believe that the action we're being asked to take today is to either
rescind or amend the Order. So, it is not—in my mind—a"rehearing"where we're
going to delve into information and weigh facts—it's simply ... does what we've heard
today warrant us to rescind or amend the previously-issued Order.
Chairman Nolton: I'm sorry—does not ...?
Patrick White: We're here today, I believe, to either act upon rescinding or amending
the Order. We can choose to rescind or amend it, or not.
Chairman Nolton: Okay. So, any discussion on taking action on this?
Patrick White: If we're there, I'm prepared to make a motion.
Chairman Nolton: Please do.
Patrick White moved to approve the Board amending its previously issued Order to
remove restrictions as stated in Paragraphs(b) and(c) such that the Contractor's
ability to obtain a building permit is reinstated. The Order will be amended
accordingly.
Kyle Lantz: And we're still recommending ...
8
February 19,2020
Patrick White: I'm not touching anything to do with the Construction Industry
Licensing Board("CILB"). If they've done what they want to do—that's fine, and if
they haven't reviewed the issue—as Mr. Ossorio has said—that's up to them. It was a
recommendation only from us and it is not binding. I don't think we have to touch it.
I think we only have to amend our Order, as I moved, relative to (b) and (c).
Attorney Jeb Schneck,Attorney for the Board: Mr. Chairman, I agree with the
Board's discussion. The only recommendation I would make is a limited Finding of
Fact that the Respondent has made full restitution and has resolved the subject
violation.
Patrick White amended his motion to include that the Respondent has made full
restitution and has resolved the subject violation.
Patrick White noted both Mr. Ossorio and Mrs. Marchetti stated that restitution had
been made.
Julia Marchetti: I have the documentation here if you want to see that as well.
Patrick White: I am fine with your testimony as evidence.
Chairman Nolton: Is there a Second?
John Nuzzo offered a Second in support of the motion.
Discussion:
• Kyle Lantz: In my opinion, I think we should change—I don't feel comfortable
—even though it's not binding—now that the problem has been abated, I don't
feel comfortable recommending a$5,000 fine and a suspension for the maximum
amount of time. Clearly, we don't have a"say" on what the CILB will do,but
our recommendation needs to be changed ... but that's just my opinion.
• Patrick White: I would say that if we had any authority—then maybe so,but
more to the point,we want the CILB to pay attention to what we said. Once this
motion passes, it's a matter of public record and anyone is free to show it to the
CILB's Investigators—whether it's Mr. Ossorio or Ms. Marchetti.
• Julia Marchetti: I appreciate it. I think that the State is ready to close it.
• Attorney Schneck: Mr. Chairman, I believe that this Order—once adopted—
will be sent to the State the way the original Order was.
• Patrick White: I think the State will infer, Mr. Schneck, that we were
comfortable to amend the Order to reinstate his permit pulling privileges and it
will be up to the CILB whether it chooses to do anything or not.
• Vice Chairman Jerulle: I am disappointed—Julia, I appreciate you're being
here, and I didn't ask the question is you are an officer of the company or not—
but I wish that the license holder had been here. This is the second meeting that
he has missed. I just want to go on record. It's that important—I believe he
should have been here.
• Julia Marchetti: I understand completely.
Chairman Nolton called for a vote on the motion. Carried unanimously, 6—0.
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February 19,2020
Michael Ossorio confirmed the Board is allowed to place a Restriction on a state-
certified Contractor's license—such as requiring a Contractor to contact the Building
Official before pulling a permit—but cannot place a state-certified Contractor on
probation.
C. Daniel Bingham: Application for Reinstatement of license and Waiver of Exams
(d/b/a: "Dan the Gutterman")
Michael Ossorio stated:
• Mr. Bingham has applied to reinstate his Aluminum Contractor's license and has
requested to waive taking the exams
• He was licensed in 2016 and took/passed the Business Law exam and the
Aluminum Contractors' trade test
• He did not renew his license in 2018—it was suspended and is now null and void
Mr. Ossorio noted that because his license is null and void,Mr. Bingham submitted a
complete application to reinstate his license. He also noted that, historically,the Board
has taken the position that if it has been less than three years since the initial tests were
taken and if re-taking the tests is superfluous to the Contractor performing his/her work,
it has waived the retesting requirement. He stated the Contractors' Licensing Office has
not objection to waiving the exams. He further stated it is important for Mr. Bingham to
explain to the Board what work he has done since 2018—if he has remained active in his
profession—so the Board may determine is re-testing is appropriate.
Daniel Bingham testified:
• I moved my family from Pennsylvania to Collier County four years ago
• He has been active in his trade for the past 25 years
• When his business in Pennsylvania had not yet been sole, he spoke with Everildo
Ybaceta to explain he would not activate his license in Collier County
• Mr. Bingham confirmed to Mr. Ybaceta that he had taken and passed the
required tests
• Mr. Ybaceta signed a document that Mr. Bingham thought was an"escrow"
license but in fact stated that his license was dormant
• He stated he did not receive any notification from Collier County that his license
had been suspended until he spoke with Michelle Ramkissoon
• He stated he didn't let his license lapse intentionally
Chairman Nolton questioned the Applicant:
Q. Mr. Bingham,have you ever installed any gutters here?
A. No, sir.
Q. And that's what you were doing up north then—selling your business?
A. I still owned the company and it's closing in sixty days.
Q. And then you will establish a new business here?
A. Correct.
Q. But you technically had a license here?
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February 19,2020
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And it was active?
A. Yes, sir. It was about—well, I'll tell you how long it was. On August 8th, I got the
approval and on October 4th, I asked if I could put it in escrow.
Patrick White questioned the Applicant:
Q. And that was in 2016?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. I see that your affidavits are from Lackawanna ...
A. County.
Q. Lackawanna County in Pennsylvania.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. What type of work have you been doing relative to this license?
A. I've built carports, I've built sheds, you know—I'm a home improvement contractor.
Q. I wanted to inquire about that—what type of licensure is that and were there any
testing requirements for it?
A. There was a brief test—it was nothing like down here.
Q. What did your license allow you to construct?
A. I could frame a building up to three stories—anything two or less.
Chairman Nolton questioned the Applicant:
Q. How long have you had that business up north?
A. Twenty-five years, sir.
Q. And you've been doing contracting for twenty-five years?
A. Yes.
Chairman Nolton: Is there any further discussion? [no response from the Board]
Chairman Matthew Nolton moved to approve reinstating the Applicant's license as an
Aluminum Contractor and approved waiving the retesting requirement of both
Business and Law and the trades test. Kyle Lantz offered a Second in support of the
motion.
Carried unanimously, 6— 0.
Matthew Ossorio reminded the Applicant that his license will renew in September and
the fee will be $125.00. He explained that if the license is not renewed in September, it
will become delinquent for the remainder of the year and in January of the following
year, it will be suspended for twelve months. After the suspension period ends,the
license then becomes null and void. He noted there is a process for"dormancy"that
allows a Contractor to close the doors to his business in Collier County for a period of
time. He recommended that any Contractor who has a business in Collier County but
wants to conduct business elsewhere should come to the Contractors' Licensing Office
to apply for a dormant license to eliminate the issues that this Contractor had. There is a
fee to be paid every year to maintain the dormant license. The Contractor will be
allowed to keep his license and will not be required to pay Workers' Comp insurance
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February 19,2020
until he reactivates his license in Collier County. The fee to reinstate a dormant license
is nominal. You are now active, welcome back.
Patrick White: I appreciate the further clarification and information about dormancy,
Mr. Ossorio. I would encourage anyone who thinks that being"suspended" is the same
as "dormant,"to be aware.
9. OLD BUSINESS:
(None)
10. PUBLIC HEARING:
(Note: The individuals who testified in the following case under Item 10, "Public
Hearing,"were first sworn in by the Attorney for the Board.)
A. Case #2020—02: Collier County Board of County Commissioners,Plaintiff,
vs. Erol E. Santos-Juarez,Respondent, d/b/a"Kingdom Electric,
LLC," Collier County Licensed Contractor and State—registered
Contractor- Misconduct
Chairman Nolton asked if reading the entire procedures was necessary.
Michael Ossorio concurred it was required since the Public Hearing is a semi judicial
procedure. He stated the portion concerning the Order of the Board is not read into the
record at Code Enforcement or Special Magistrate hearings. He suggested speaking
with the Board's Attorney to see if the procedures could be shortened.
Patrick White stated he did his best during his tenure to truncate the amount of detail
read.
Michael Ossorio clarified once a decision has been reached by the Board,that is the
basis for the Order which is then written, signed, certified and sent to the Respondent.
It then becomes the legal record for any type of appeal. Obviously, a verbatim record
is nice, but the Order speaks for itself. Going forward, he recommended that if the
Board finds that a violation does exist and votes on recommendations, that that stand
on its own.
Chairman Nolton outlined the procedures to be followed for the Public Hearing:
1. This Hearing will be conducted pursuant to the procedures set forth in Collier
County Ordinance#90-105, as amended, and Florida Statutes Chapter 489.
2. The Hearing is quasi-judicial in nature and the Formal Rules of Evidence will
not apply.
3. Fundamental fairness and due process shall be observed and shall govern the
proceeding.
4. Irrelevant, immaterial, or inconclusive evidence shall be excluded, but all other
evidence of the type commonly relied upon by reasonably prudent persons in the
conduct of their affairs shall be admissible whether or not such evidence would
be admissible in a trial in the Courts of Florida.
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February 19,2020
5. Hearsay evidence may be used for the purpose of supplementing or explaining
any evidence but shall not be sufficient by itself to support a Finding unless such
hearsay would be admissible or objected to in civil actions in Court.
6. The Rules of Procedure shall be effective to the same extent that they would now
be hereafter recognized in civil actions.
7. The general purpose of the proceeding is for the County to set out its Opening
Statement which details its charges against the Respondent.
8. A Respondent may or may not make his/her Opening Statement setting out in
general terms the defenses to the charges.
9. The County then presents its Case in Chief calling witnesses and presenting
evidence.
10. The Respondent may cross-examine these witnesses.
11. Once the County has closed its Case in Chief, the Respondent may present
his/her defense and may call witnesses, and do all the things described earlier,
that is to call and examine witnesses, to introduce exhibits,to cross-examine
witnesses and impeach any witness regardless of which party called the witness
to testify, and to rebut any evidence presented against the party.
12. After the Respondent has presented his/her case,the County may present a
rebuttal to the Respondent's presentation. When the rebuttal is concluded, each
party may present their closing statement.
13. After the Respondent has presented his/her case,the County may present a
rebuttal to the Respondent's presentation.
14. When the rebuttal is concluded, each party may present its Closing Statement.
15. The County will have a further opportunity to rebut after the Respondent's
Closing Statement.
16. The Board will then close the Public Hearing and will begin its deliberations.
17. Prior to the beginning of any deliberation, the Attorney for the Board will give
the Charge, which is similar to the Charge for a Jury, setting out the parameters
upon which the Board may base its decision.
18. During deliberations, the Board can ask for additional information and
clarification from the parties.
19. The Board will then decide two different issues:
a. First,whether the Respondent is guilty of the offenses as charged in the
Administrative Complaint and a vote will be taken on that matter;
b. If the Respondent has been found guilty,then the Board must decide upon
the Sanctions to be imposed.
The Board's attorney will advise the Board as to the Sanctions which may be
imposed and the factors to be considered. The Board will discuss the Sanctions
and take another vote.
20. After the two matters have been decided, the Chair(or in his/her absence,the
Vice Chair)will read a Summary of the Order to be issued by the Board. The
Summery will set forth a basic outline of the Order, but it may not be the same
language in the Final Order.
21. The Final Order will include the full details that apply under state law.
Chairman Nolton asked for a motion to open the Public Hearing.
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February 19,2020
Chairman Nolton stated the Public Hearing for Case#2020- 02: Collier County
Board of County Commissioners, Plaintiff vs. Erol E. Santos-Juarez,Respondent,
d/b/a "Kingdom Electric, LLC,"Collier County Licensed Contractor and State—
registered Contractor—Misconduct was open.
Ivan Afanador,Licensing Compliance Officer, requested to admit the information
packet contacting the Administrative Complaint into evidence on behalf of Collier
County.
Patrick White moved to approve admitting the information packet in Case#2020-02
into evidence. Kyle Lantz offered a Second in support of the motion.
Carried unanimously, 6—0.
Collier Countv's Opening Statement:
• Erol E. Santos-Juarez, d/b/a Kingdom Electric, LLC, is currently licensed as a
Registered Electrical Contractor(License#201500001335) and is also a State-
Registered Electrical Contractor(#ER 13015132)
• The Respondent is currently the Qualifier and license holder of record.
• The Respondent was contracted to perform and did perform electric work
without obtaining an approved permit for such work.
• He was contracted for and submitted an invoice to Thomas R. Williams, d/b/a
Williams Magical Garden Center& Landscape to provide electrical services
for the installation of a koi pond project at the Kramer residence located at
9126 The Lane,Naples, FL 34104.
Chairman Nolton asked the Respondent if he had an Opening Statement to present to
the Board.
Respondent's Opening Statement:
• I want to start by thanking the Board for the opportunity to be here. My name
is Erol Santos and I am the Qualifier of Kingdom Electric, LLC.
• I have never been in a situation like this before and it is something that I never
thought I would be facing.
• Back in 2018, I was called by a friend who was working for Williams' Magical
Garden Center& Landscape. He said his boss was looking for a licensed
Electrician, which I am.
• I met Dana who was the person who was running that project. I met her onsite
and she asked me if I was a licensed Electrician. I said yes. She introduced me
to the project.
• I saw that the project was not a minor project—it was a really big project.
They had an excavating machine behind the house.
• I sent her a proposal and she approved it.
• We started moving quickly to do the job. I asked her if they were pulling a
permit for the job and she said they were taking care of everything.
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February 19,2020
• I never met the owners of the property. I was paid by Williams' Magical
Garden Center& Landscape—so basically,they hired me.
Patrick White questioned the Respondent:
Q. Which party hired you? Was it the owner?
A. No, it was Williams Magical Garden Center&Landscape.
Q. The Contractor?
A. The Contractor. Honestly, I thought she [Dana] was the Contractor because I
knew in my mind that job required a building permit required—not an electric
permit that I needed to pull. I knew that because of the size of the project, it was
going to need more than one license.
Q. Did you see any permit boards or permit cards on the premises?
A. No, I didn't see anything.
Q. Did you look for it?
A. Honestly, I just went behind the house. I just want to say that back then, I was
operating from my house doing administration because I got my license in 2015
and two years later, I was running the business from my house. I didn't have
anyone helping me out with paperwork or anything like that, but now I do. I have
an office and my wife is 100% involved in the business and she has an assistant—
she is training somebody. That releases me to take care of projects—the
paperwork is not on my shoulders anymore but back then it was.
Respondent's Opening Statement(continued):
• So, I went and saw the size of the job and, honestly, I immediately started
working on that.
• I remember I called her [Dana] after I did the job and asked her if everything
was okay with the inspections and she said everything was okay.
• They were in a hurry to do this job because I received calls and text messages
asking why I was going to start.
• On 99%of the projects that I worked on were always under General
Contractors and I thought this was another one like that.
• Many times what would happen is the GC would call me and after they
completed the rough-in on the job,there is a hold on the project and ask me to
send my affidavit because they could not call for inspections—that's what
happens all the time.
• In this case, it never happened, and, honestly, I didn't follow-up on that. That
was my mistake.
• I am so sorry to be here because I know that was my responsibility to follow-
up on that.
Chairman Nolton: This was your Opening Statement and you've given up a lot of
information. Now we're going to move and let the County present ...
Patrick White: May I ask one question? May I ask the gentleman to summarize his
detailed Opening Statement?Is your Opening Statement saying that you believe you
did commit the violation?
Erol Santos: Not the violation but the mistake on not following the paperwork.
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February 19,2020
Patrick White: Did you obtain a permit?
Erol Santos: No, I didn't because ...
Patrick White: I don't understand why the "because"?
Erol Santos: No, I didn't pull a permit.
Patrick White: But you're still saying, essentially, I'm not guilty.
Erol Santos: I'm guilty of not following up the paperwork.
Patrick White: Well, that's the permit.
Erol Santos: Exactly.
Patrick White: I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. I'm just trying to
understand whether what you're saying is that you accept responsibility—you did it
and you're guilty. Or, that you're saying you should have known better but I'm not
guilty.
Erol Santos: No, I'm guilty.
Patrick White: Thank you. It makes things a lot easier for us, going forward. I
appreciate your honesty and I respect your integrity. Thank you for helping to clarify
that.
Ivan Afanador: Mr. Chairman, from the County's standpoint, there is nothing to add
except that the Respondent admitted to working without pulling a permit. I just want
to make the point that the Building Official stated, under oath, that a building permit
was required.
Patrick White: There was a statement in the packet from the owner that"major
damage"had been caused to the property. What, if anything, does that mean? I
understand it has little to do with whether a permit was pulled or acquired. I'm trying
to understand as we go forward if there's going to be a penalty charged. Now is the
time for me to understand what that harm may have been and whether it has been
rectified.
Michael Ossorio: To clarify the issue ... this is almost like "Regan's Trickle Down"
theory of economics—we heard the companion case to this before with Mr. Williams
and restitution was ordered at that time. The County is not asking for additional
restitution from this Respondent because Mr. Williams is responsible for making full
restitution to the homeowner. This gentleman admitted to the violation and his
admission is on the record. The County has no further testimony to present.
Patrick White: I would be in favor of closing the Public Hearing. Do you have
anything to add, Mr. Santos?
Erol Santos: No, other than I'm sorry to be here. This is not going to happen again
because, like I said, I do have my wife and somebody else handling the paperwork. I
can assure you this will not happen again—we will follow up all the papers and I will
not do anything without the permit.
Patrick White: The easiest way to make sure of that is a permit board with the
documents inside it.
Erol Santos: Yeah.
Patrick White: That will make sure the inspections are checked off and signed.
Erol Santos: Yes—that's basically what my wife is doing---
Patrick White: No, no—I'm talking about the board that is on site ...
Erol Santos: Exactly.
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February 19,2020
Patrick White: ... that's your job. That's not your wife's...
Erol Santos: Exactly.
Kyle Lantz: Yeah, but that's easier said than done.
Patrick White: I understand ...
Kyle Lantz: I've been doing this for a long time. Very, very rarely ... I'm not going
to say very rarely ... but less than 50% of the time, the Inspector doesn't sign the
board.
Patrick White: I understand he may not sign the board but there is a board, and there
are inspections and there's the notification that the subcontractor has that there is a
permit—that's the primary point. Now if he sees that that there was an inspection that
was signed off, he can ask his wife to check online to make sure it was done. That's
the way it gets done. That's my point.
Vice Chairman Jerulle: Not to object to your point, but proper procedure is making
sure that there is a permit on-site, that there is a Notice of Commencement on-site, and
that you have a contract that specifies your scope of work and who is responsible for
the permitting. Those are common, simple business practices to help you [indicating
the Respondent] going forward.
Chairman Nolton: I think Mr. Santos understands that it's how you protect yourself.
Patrick White moved to approve closing the Public Hearing. Vice Chairman Jerulle
offered a Second in support of the motion. Carried unanimously, 6—0.
Patrick White moved to approve finding the Respondent guilty of the violation as set
forth in Count I of the Administrative Complaint. Vice Chairman Jerulle offered a
Second in support of the motion.
Chairman Nolton asked if there was any discussion. Since there was no response
from the members, he called for a vote on the motion.
Motion carried, 5— "Yes"/1— "No." Mr. Lantz was opposed.
Attorney Schneck: The Board has the option to impose one or more of the following
disciplinary Sanctions:
• Revocation of the Respondent's license or suspension of the license;
• Denial of the issuance or renewal of the Respondent's license;
• Probation, not to exceed two years;
• Payment of restitution;
• A fine not to exceed Ten Thousand Dollars ($10,000.00);
• A public reprimand;
• Re-examination requirement;
• Denial of the issuance of Collier County building permits or issuance of
permits with specific conditions;
• Reimbursement to the County of reasonable investigative and legal costs.
Attorney Schneck: I believe the County had made a recommendation of non-
compliance order or something of that nature?
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February 19,2020
Michael Ossorio: No, actually. Under the Code, if the Licensing Supervisor feels
that it warrants a formal charge, which we have done, we will notify the Clerk's Office
or does it warrant a Non-compliance Order when there is no financial harm. While
there was financial harm, it was mostly due to Mr. Williams. You heard his case last
month and the homeowner was significantly damaged by all parties. There could be
more Contractors before the Board in the next few months concerning that property.
Mr. Ossorio continued: The County's recommendation is a fine of$2,500.00;
probation for a period of twenty-four months; no further action to the State's licensing
Board. The Respondent is a state-registered Contractor. I would like Mr. Santos to
meet with me for one hour to review permitting requirements,the Notice of
Commencement,the Notice to Owners, final affidavits for Contractors, and how to file
a lien. Basically, we will review"Contracting 101."
Patrick White: With regard to the County's costs for the prosecution of this matter?
Michael Ossorio: In this case, it was just a matter of paperwork since the leg work
was done for last month's case, so there will be no costs to reimburse.
Attorney Schneck: Mr. Chairman, I would like to quickly read the factors for the
Board to consider when imposing Sanctions:
• The gravity of the violation;
• The impact of the violation on the public's health/safety/welfare;
• Any actions taken by the Violator to correct the violation;
• Any previous violations committed by the Violator;
• Any other evidence presented at the Public Hearing by the parties that is
relevant as to the Sanctions which are appropriate to this case, given the nature
of the violation and the Violator.
Kyle Lantz: Were there any previous violations?
Michael Ossorio: No.
Kyle Lantz: So, how come this case—I see the Compliance Officers driving around
and they give people Citations for doing work without a permit. We've had some
come in here who have had four, five, six, seven Citations for doing work without a
permit before they come to the Board. How come this specific case came before the
Board?
Michael Ossorio: I think I just mentioned, Mr. Lantz, unfortunately the Code does
not allow me to issue a—but you're absolutely right ... if this was a factor where Mr.
Santos-Juarez came into the office and said, "no harm/no foul"—no one was hurt or
maimed—we could issued a Non-compliance Order for the first time.
Kyle Lantz: By Non-compliance, are you saying it's a Citation?
Michael Ossorio: No. The Code says what a Non-compliance Order is—it's a
document written by the Licensing Supervisor -- it is not a Stop Work Order .... it is a
notification that says, `listen, this is what we expect—this is what Collier County
wants ... it requires you to get a building permit for these items and requires you check
the permit board for a Notice of Commencement and if you damage somebody's
property that you notify the property owner,that there is a Notice to Owner, and that
the Contractor knows how to protect himself as a lien process and how many days he
has left' —those are what is called Non-compliance. It is something that is not
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February 19,2020
life/safety—no one got hurt. Unfortunately, he caused or started to cause or did cause
the start of Mr. Kramer's problems. We ae not going to rehash those issues. This was
a situation that Mr. Santos-Juarez was caught in—he should have rectified it by
saying, `here's my Page 2' —he should have signed it and asked to be notified when
the final inspection was done. If he had done that, Mr. Kramer would probably be in a
better position. My thought process was that Mr. Williams was fined $2,500 times
two, I believe. Mr. Santos-Juarez was fined $2,500 for this job and he's learned his
lesson and he should be penalized accordingly.
Kyle Lantz: What is the penalty for a Citation—for the first time, and the second
time?
Michael Ossorio: For a first Citation, it is $1,000.
Patrick White: For a second?
Michael Ossorio: $2,000.
Patrick White: To me, it's similar to a criminal law case where someone pleads Nolo
contendere—basically where a Defendant neither admits nor disputes a charge, it is an
alternative to a pleading of guilty or not guilty. The next layer of enforcement, in my
mind, is the issuance of a Citation. If a Contractor didn't learn the lesson the first
time,the fine goes up to $2,000. For the third strike,the Contractor comes here or
goes before a County Court Judge. The idea is there is an escalation. Here, by the
process, he is required to appear before this Board and that's fine. I'm fine with the
recommendations other than the amount of the fine. I'm sorry.
Kyle Lantz: I feel the fine is excessive.
Patrick White: Do you have a recommendation, Kyle?
Kyle Lantz: I say no fine, but I don't think that's going to fly.
Michael Ossorio: I just want to make sure—there's a big difference between a Non-
compliance Order and a Nolo Contendere as Mr. White explained. Years ago,there
was always a conflict between what's a major violation and what is a minor violation.
Now it's just called a"violation." The Board can mitigate a fine. It's up to the Board
—whatever the Board wants. Mr. Kramer is out$98,000 and he's going to pull tooth
and nail to get his money. Mr. Santo-Juarez was paid $2,500 to do the electrical work,
which was significant, so my thought was he shouldn't be paid for it.
Patrick White: In my mind, if the $2,500 was going to go to ripping out the electrical
work that was put in and restore the conditions to what they were previously—then I
would feel a whole lot more comfortable about that. But the testimony—not
withstanding what brings this before the Board today—is the idea that there was harm.
So,the question in my mind is: how much harm did the work done by Mr. Santos-
Juarez cause? The only way that I see that it balances out is by what I just said—to
have him remove what he put in. I tend to see this more like a"first strike" Citation.
That, to me,would seem to be a more appropriate fine. I don't want to pre-determine a
case we might here with another Contractor at some point down the line. I will
mention that I've seen some of those trucks out there—still doing work—Magical
trucks.
Kyle Lantz: So, how about this? I don't agree with the fine at all, but we've already
said we were going to fine him. We've already said that Mr. Kramer deserves
whatever awful number it is to remove the pond, so let's put whatever money we're
charging for a fine and subtract it from the last case and make this apply towards it.
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February 19,2020
Mr. Kramer shouldn't get paid twice for it, but the County shouldn't be making money
off it if we're trying to say we're trying to work on the great financial harm. So
whatever fine he pays goes toward restitution, instead of a fine.
Chairman Nolton: So,you're calling it restitution instead of a fine?
Kyle Lantz: Yes.
Patrick White: He's changing the value of the fine to restitution and it sounds like
the restitution would be made to the property owner.
Kyle Lantz: To the property owner and subtract that amount from the previous case's
balance because the property owner shouldn't be paid twice.
Michael Ossorio: This is strictly Mr. Santos-Juarez. He admitted to the violation, he
caused the violation—the question is what is the appropriate penalty? I would say for
a handyman to install a fan in a condominium,that's a$1,000 fine. But you can see
by the complexity of this project,would it be a$1,000 fine? It's all relative and up to
the Board to decide. Mr. Kramer is happy with what the Board did last month—he is
going forward with a civil proceeding and you'll probably see Mr. Williams back
before this Board and if we find him out there working against the Board's Order,then
we should be out there looking for him. I have nothing more to say except to stick to
the procedures and determine what the appropriate penalty is this contractor.
Vice Chairman Jerulle moved to improve imposing the following Sanctions on the
Respondent:
• A fine of$2,500;
• A probationary period of twenty-four months;
• A one-hour meeting with Michael Ossorio.
Michael Ossorio stated that he would welcome meeting with the Respondent because
issued the license to Mr. Santos-Juarez. He would like to take the opportunity to talk
to the Respondent to make sure that he gets his due process to be able to succeed as a
Contractor.
Patrick White offered a Second in support of the motion, asking if the motion could
be amended to include no further action to the Construction Industry Licensing
Board("CILB").
Vice Chairman Jerulle accepted the amended language.
Chairman Nolton asked for discussion.
Patrick White: I will not be voting in favor of the motion because, no matter how
logical it is, I cannot support it because it seems fundamentally unfair because the
County could chose to take those dollars and give them some value other than as just a
penalty. I understand Mr. Ossorio's point of view.
Vice Chairman Jerulle: I understand yours and I think I understand Mr. Lantz's
position but if someone would have spoken up at a certain time, the homeowner could
have been saved a lot of money.
Patrick White: I don't know.
Vice Chairman Jerulle: No, we don't know. But it was his obligation to get a permit
but if those questions were asked at a certain point in the project,the homeowner
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February 19,2020
could have been saved maybe half of the costs—if you're talking about restitution.
So,that's my thought process. I agree—I don't want to fine him ... I'd rather have the
money go to the homeowner but if he had said something or done something
differently as he should have—it may have stopped the process or stopped the project
and helped the homeowner.
Kyle Lantz: We have testimony that he talked to the people who hired him—the
"Contractor" who hired him—and asked about a permit and they said they were taking
care of it.
Patrick White: He tried but his obligation—in my mind—he was more than just
taking their word for it. He said 98%of the time there was a different process and, in
that process, Page 2 and the inspection card and the permit board should have been
evident, and they weren't. My only real issue is the—the funds are going to come out
of his pocket one way or the other ...the question is how much and who gets it. That's
reason why I won't support it even though I offered a Second for it.
Vice Chairman Jerulle: In my world, as in Mr. Meister's,when we call in an
electrical inspection, we have the Electrician there—so the Electrician knows—and he
walks with the Electrical Inspector. There shouldn't be a question for the Electrician
shouldn't say I didn't know there wasn't a permit.
Kyle Lantz: In your world, how often do you hire an Electrician and the Electrician is
responsible for his/her own permit—or the Plumber is responsible for his/her own
permit?
Vice Chairman Jerulle: A lot of the time. It all depends upon what he/she is doing
on the job and the scope of work.
Kyle Lantz: In my world, if I'm hired by a Contractor,the Contractor is responsible
for all permits. If I am hired by a homeowner, the homeowner is responsible unless
there has been a specific discussion with the Contractor that I have to do it. But it
wouldn't happen unless it was a super high-dollar job, I wouldn't go through the
hassle of pulling a permit.
Vice Chairman Jerulle: We pull permits, but all of our subcontractors are involved
and know about the permits.
Kyle Lantz: No, no—I'm not saying are they on the card ... I'm saying are they
filling out the paperwork to get the permit?
Vice Chairman Jerulle: It depends ... if it's for a generator, they are. For certain
items on a project,they are.
Kyle Lantz: For certain items,they have to be ... anything gas—you're not doing that
or fire sprinklers—you're not doing that. But if you're building a house—if you're
doing a renovation, is the subcontractor doing any of the permit work?
Vice Chairman Jerulle: It all depends ... it all depends. Like I said, there's a permit
board that has to be on-site, it has to be available for the City or County Inspector to
see, there has to be a Notice of Commencement. If there isn't a Notice of
Commencement, all my subs will say where is the Notice of Commencement. It needs
to be on-site. They have to protect themselves. One of the things when you do meet
with Mr. Ossorio—if I can have fifteen minutes to explain some of these other issues
to help him, I would be more than happy to do that.
Patrick White: One of the other things that should have tipped him off easily is the
subcontractor has to fill out a subcontractor form to go with the permit.
21
February 19,2020
Kyle Lantz: But not in the City anymore—in Naples,we don't do that anymore. In
the City of Naples,they just put your name on—there's no subcontractor form
anymore.
Chairman Nolton: I think we're getting into the weeds a little bit. We're talking
about the fine—is it justifiable or not. He's already stated—he should have pulled it.
Patrick White: If there's a fine, it should be less ... it's not going to be used in some
fashion to ...
Vice Chairman Jerulle: I made the motion and if somebody else wants to make an
amendment to the motion, I'm willing to hear it but ...
Patrick White: The motion already has a Second. It either goes up or down.
Chairman Nolton: There is no further discussion. I'm calling for a vote on the
motion.
Motion passed, Four— "Yes"/Two— "No." Mr. Lantz and Mr. White were opposed.
Michael Ossorio: Mr. Chairman, my thought process is he should have sixty days to
pay the fine.
Patrick White moved to approve including in the Final Order that the Respondent
shall have sixty days to pay the fine. Vice Chairman Jerulle offered a Second in
support of the motion. Carried unanimously, 6—0.
Michael Ossorio: Mr. Chairman, since you did rule and what we're done before, is
that the Respondent stands and you let him know what the outcome was—about the
penalty and the violation and he would know on the record rather than waiting thirty
days for the Order to come in.
Patrick White: And the word—the technical word-- is "render." When Mr.Nolton
signs the Order, it is rendered.
Chairman Nolton: Mr. Santos, to summarize,the Board found that you are guilty.
For the Sanctions, we talked about placing you on probation for twenty-four months, a
$2,500 fine, no further action by the CILB, and you will meet with Mr. Ossorio for
one hour for education.
Patrick White: And that he will pay the fine within sixty days.
Chairman Nolton: And the fine is to be paid within sixty days. Do you have any
questions for the Board?
Erol Santos: No.
Patrick White: Thank you for coming in today, sir.
Chairman Nolton: So, Mr. Ossorio, in our original discussion this is the part that you
said will be in the Order that is signed, and it will be very specific.
Michael Ossorio: Less is better. Your Board's attorney will render his decision and
you will sign it and it will be the Order in thirty days which will be sent out as well.
Chairman Nolton: So, I'm going to now move that the proceeding is concluded.
22
ADDENDUM TO MINUTES
Ni Gail
•
(no subject)
CornettaRobert<Robert.Cornetta@colliercountyfl.gov> Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 4:32 PM
To: "juliemarchetti339@gmail.com" <juliemarchetti339@gmail.com>
Robert J. Cornetta
Chief Plumbing/Mechanical Inspector
Co Yer County
Building Plan Review&Inspection Division
NOTE:Email Address Has Changed
robert.cornetta@colliercountyfl.gov
2800 N. Horseshoe Dr., Naples Florida 34104
Phone:239-252-2474 Fax: 239.252.3040
How are we doing?
The Building Plan Review and Inspection Division wants to hear from you!
Please take our online SURVEY.
We appreciate your feedback!
Under Florida Law,e-mail addresses are public records If you do not want your e-mail address released in response to a public records request,do not
send electronic mail to this entity.Instead,contact this office by telephone or in writing
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To: OssorioMichael <Michael.Ossorio@colliercountyfl.gov>
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Plumbing
1. Repair/replace work performed by licensed plumbing contractors that does not exceed
$1,500.00 in value of materials and labor.
2. Repair water solar panels by licensed plumbing contractors.
3. Change out of an above ground LP tank 100 lbs or less.
4. Repair irrigation system.
5. Repair domestic water service/lines.
6. Unclog sewer stoppage.
7. Repair sewer line excluding repair or replacement of interceptors, separators by
licensed plumbing contractors.
8. Repair/replace faucets.
9. Repair/replace water closet/bidet/urinal fixtures only.
10. Repair/replace sink/lavatory/drinking fountain fixtures only.
11. Repair/replace residential pool equipment other than pool heater.
12. Repair/replace shut off valve on a domestic water line.
13. Repair/ replace and house pumps not exceeding 2 hp
14. Repair/replace residential disposal.
15. Repair/replace residential dishwasher.
16. Repair/replace like-for-like kind electric water heater up to 52-gallon capacity to
include electrical connection.
17. Repair/replacement of water purification/water softener equipment.
February 19,2020
B. Case#2020-03: Collier County Board of County Commissioners,Plaintiff,
vs. Matthew M. Foster, Respondent, d/b/a "Foster Air Supplies
& Technical Services,Inc." Collier County Licensed Contractor
—Misconduct
(Note: This Case was WITHDRAWN by Collier County, per Amended Agenda)
NEXT MEETING DATE: WEDNESDAY,MARCH 18,2020
BCC Chambers, 3rd Floor—Administrative Building"F,
Government Complex, 3301 E. Tamiami Trail,Naples, FL
There being no further business for the good of the County,the meeting was adjourned at
11:15 AM by order of the Chairman.
COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS'
LICENSING BOARD
airman, Jt
The Minutes were approved by the Chairman or Vice Chairman of the Cojtractors' Licensing Board
onl I 1 ,2020, (Check one) "as submitted" [LA or "as amended" 1 1
23