BCC Minutes 12/14/2006 S (LDC Amendments)
December 14, 2006
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, December 14, 2006
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as the
Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board( s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 5:05 p.m. in SPECIAL
SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples,
Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN:
Frank Halas
Fred Coyle
Jim Coletta
Donna Fiala
Tom Henning
ALSO PRESENT:
Joseph Schmitt, Community Dev. & Env. Services
Catherine Fabacher, Principal Planner
Jeffrey Klatzkow, Assistant County Attorney
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COLLIER COUNTY
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
~
LDC AGENDA
December 14, 2006
5:05 p.m.
SPECIAL MEETING
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON ANY AGENDA ITEM
MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO SPEAKING. SPEAKERS MUST REGISTER
WITH THE COUNTY MANAGER PRIOR TO THE PRESENTATION OF THE
AGENDA ITEM TO BE ADDRESSED.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 2004-05 REQUIRES THAT ALL
LOBBYISTS SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES
(INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE
BOARD AT THE BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
REQUESTS TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON SUBJECTS WHICH ARE NOT ON
THIS AGENDA MUST BE SUBMITTED IN WRITING WITH EXPLANATION
TO THE COUNTY MANAGER AT LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF
THE MEETING AND WILL BE HEARD UNDER "PUBLIC PETITIONS".
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD
WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO,
AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD
OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE
TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
ALL REGISTERED PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL BE LIMITED TO FIVE (5)
MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY
ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING,
YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, TO THE PROVISION OF
CERTAIN ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY
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December 14, 2006
FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT LOCATED AT 3301 EAST
T AMIAMI TRAIL, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112, (239) 774-8380; ASSISTED
LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN
THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' OFFICE.
1. INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
2. THE BOARD TO CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING
ORDINANCE NUMBER 04-41, AS AMENDED, THE COLLIER COUNTY
LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, WHICH INCLUDES THE
COMPREHENSIVE REGULATIONS FOR THE UNINCORPORATED
AREA OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA.
3. ADJOURN
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December 14, 2006
December 14, 2006
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen.
This is a continuation of the Land Development Code's 2006 Cycle 1.
And we're finishing up on the second hearing of these Land
Development Codes.
If each of you would like to rise and we'll say the pledge.
(Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
ORDINANCE 2006-63: THE BOARD TO CONSIDER AN
ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NUMBER 04-41, AS
AMENDED, THE COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT
CODE, WHICH INCLUDES THE COMPREHENSIVE
REGULATIONS FOR THE UNINCORPORATED AREA OF
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA - ADOPTED W/CHANGES
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you very much.
Catherine, if you can lead us off here. I believe that --
MS. FABACHER: Yes, sir. We have a couple of people in the
audience. I think Director Arnold would like to go first for Code
Enforcement.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay.
MS. FABACHER: And that is in Page CC of your summary
sheet.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm sorry, I don't think the mic's
working. I can't hear you.
MR. SCHMITT: You've got to speak into it.
Catherine, would you highlight for the record this is the second
hearing?
MS. FABACHER: The second meeting of the final hearing.
MR. SCHMITT: Second meeting of the final hearing, thank you.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: What again? What page again?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: CC on the --
MS. F ABACHER: CC on the summary sheet on Page 217 in
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December 14,2006
your green book.
And I might remind Commissioners that this is the definitions of
commercial equipment, commercial vehicle that we're returning as an
omission from the code, from the re-codification. And there were
some questions raised about lawnmowers. And Mrs. Arnold has some
text changes for you.
MS. ARNOLD: Yes. For the record, Michelle Arnold, Code
Enforcement Director.
I understand that there was some concerns about how this would
be enforced with regard to the normal everyday citizen, whether or not
it would apply to just the generallawnmower that is left out in the
yard.
And just to avoid confusion, we've stricken that. We're
recommending striking that language out of there.
This is language that has been previously in the code. It was
omitted with the codification of the LDC. And we just want to put it
back in for clarification. It's not intended to apply to just the, you
know, everyday citizen with a lawnmower.
If the board had any other questions, I'd be happy to answer
them.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Are you recommending any text
change to this, or not?
MS. ARNOLD: What we would be recommending in response
to your concern was to strike through lawnmowers, paren. push type
or tractor.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Henning, can I ask a
question?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: What's this in relation to, tractors and
lawnmowers? Can you --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, this is a definition for
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December 14, 2006
enforcing the commercial vehicle ordinance.
MS. ARNOLD: Commercial vehicle and equipment portion of
the LDC.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes.
MS. ARNOLD: And we're putting -- the language was left into
the Land Development Code with regard to what is a commercial
vehicle and equipment, or what the regulations and where they could
be stored on property. But the definition was omitted, so we are
asking to put the definition back in.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: I take it this is for people who have a
riding lawnmower or lawnmowers that they can keep them on their
property?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay, the commercial vehicle
equipment and -- commercial vehicle and equipment ordinance doesn't
allow for storage of vehicles of nature in a residential zoning without
properly being screened.
The definition that -- Ms. Arnold is absolutely right, this is the
same language that was in the original LDC before the codification.
And her recommendation is to strike lawnmower and like.
But I might have a better suggestion, if you don't mind?
MS. ARNOLD: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Can we -- commercial
equipment. Commercial equipment commonly used --
MS. ARNOLD: The language says any equipment commonly
used in a commercial business, regardless of if the equipment is
actually owned or utilized by a business. Commercial equipment shall
include the following.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Ifwe remove the word
"commonly" and say any equipment used in commercial businesses
regarding equipment.
MS. ARNOLD: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And then you could leave in the
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December 14,2006
other stuff.
MS. ARNOLD: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Because actually, if you have a
trailer --
MS. ARNOLD: Right.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- with push lawnmowers on it,
by striking this you're saying it's okay, and we don't want to do that.
But if you just remove that word, it catches everything.
MS. ARNOLD: Commonly. Okay, so remove the word
commonly only, and leave back in lawnmowers, paren., push type or
tractor. We could live with that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is that okay?
MR. SCHMITT: It works.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you for the clarification.
Appreciate that, Commissioner.
MS. F ABACHER: Commissioner, did you want to go ahead and
vote on these as we go through them?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve as amended.
This one is LDC 1.5, definition Section 1.08.02.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Page 217, right?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, 217, as amended, by
removing the word in the first paragraph, "commonly".
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, we have a motion on the floor by
Commissioner Henning and a second by Commissioner Fiala to
approve this definition as amended.
Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hearing none, I'll call the question. All
those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
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December 14, 2006
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries 5-0.
MS. FABACHER: Great.
Commissioners, now I think we have two speakers on Stan's
amendment which was -- which is on Page L of your summary sheet.
It's Section 4.03.05, subdivision design regulations. And it's on Page
85 in your green book. Add a maximum limit on the height of fill
pads for single residential single-family houses.
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: Yes, good evening, Commissioners.
Stan Chrzanowski with Engineering Review.
This is the second time you're hearing this amendment. What
this is about is to limit the height of fill pads under homes. Because as
a fill pad gets higher, like any pyramid, as the pyramid gets taller the
base of the pyramid gets wider. And if we let them go too high, the
base gets very wide and it takes up a lot more of usually floodplain
storage, water storage.
We have a problem with the runoff onto adjacent lots. I can go
into it in more depth, but I think you probably remember it from last
time, and I can stop right here.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Could we -- sure, go ahead.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes, thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: I think we got public speakers on this,
too?
MS. FABACHER: Yes, we do.
And Commissioners, may I state for the record that there should
be two, an A and a B in your text that didn't get into this copy here.
And it's -- I'm on Page 86, house pad height limit requirements.
And it says -- let's see, I'm down on the fourth line. Permit or
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environmental resource permit, ERP, and that do not also have A, a
central backbone, stormwater runoff collection, and B, treatment
system.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, gotcha.
MS. FABACHER: I apologize for that.
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: Actually the B should be in a different
spot. Central -- that do not have a central backbone stormwater runoff
collection and treatment system, swales and lakes or retention areas.
Oh, no.
MS. FABACHER: That's what I said, B.
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: Oh, I'm sorry. You're right.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay, so A is just the central
backbone stormwater runoff collection? A in parenthesis, right?
CHAIRMAN HALAS: And what was the B part?
MS. FABACHER: It was the treatment system.
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: It was the treatment system. Swales and
lakes or retention areas. So you have to have both.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. Commissioner Coletta has a
question here.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes. Stan, this doesn't in any
way bring people down so they're going to end up being in a
floodplain. This still -- we're still requiring them to be built at a
certain height. It's just that they have to use something other than fill
to get to that height.
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: At the risk of playing with words,
they're in the floodplain already if they're in an A zone.
So there's a couple of ways to get out of the floodplain. You can
build a very large mound and put in for a letter of map amendment
and have yourself removed from the floodplain, but that doesn't solve
the problem that you're putting fill into the floodplain and raising the
water on other people and in some cases shedding water on other
people.
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You can still build a stem wall and build your first -- you can
build up on piles and build your first finished floor 10 feet above the
flood elevation. This doesn't -- as a matter of fact, I think we've got
something coming up in the flood or watershed management plan that
says we want you to have a foot of free board above the floodplain
base flood elevation to your first finished floor. This has no effect on
finished floor. You can come up on stem wall and build as high as
you want.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And this isn't the answer to
everything we're trying to accomplish out there. You still have other
things in the works you're going to be bringing forward.
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: Yes, sir, mega houses this cycle.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay, thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'm going to make a motion to
approve, but I do have a question.
What do you do with those lots in Golden Gate Estates that are
lower than others? Some people call them wetlands. Do you just put
in extra blocks to get to your height?
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Yeah.
I think this is a great amendment. As older neighborhoods
become redeveloped, what's happening in not only in Naples Park and
Palm River and also Pine Ridge is that the flood elevations, people are
building up to the point where when the runoff -- the neighbor in the
back or the neighbor on the side ends up as a retention pond. And so I
think this is a great step forward in trying to eliminate runoff onto
adjacent properties. And--
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: If I could add one thing.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Sure.
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: There's a paragraph in here, exceptions
to the section can be sought based on a site stormwater retention
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design done by a professional engineer, et cetera.
If a lot of people go with that, we're going to -- we already have a
request in for a couple more engineers. Like everybody, we're
claiming we don't have enough staff to do our job right now. We're
going to be adding to our job right now.
And I would just as soon prefer to put this off a bit as far as
enforcement goes. But that's up to Joe. If Joe thinks we can handle it,
I guess we will.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Well, when would these take effect?
ASAP?
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: I think they take effect as soon as you
approve them.
MR. SCHMITT: Within--
MS. FABACHER: The effective date--
MR. SCHMITT: -- 10 days.
MS. F ABACHER: -- once it's filed with the Department of
State.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: And how long does that take?
MS. F ABACHER: Generally 10 days after you sign it.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay.
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: We might be giving ourselves a lot
more work.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Well, I think it's work that -- I
understand where you're coming from, but I think it's work that needs
to be done.
Because I know in my district, and I'm sure that Commissioner
Fiala has run in the same problem, and Commissioner Coletta,
whereby we're having a problem, huge problem with stormwater
runoff, especially with these huge mega homes. And some of these
pads are being built up as high as four and five feet and then they start
building the home.
And of course the people around there who were built back in the
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Sixties and Seventies and even the Eighties, there was no real FEMA
requirement. So they may be only eight or 10 inches above the crown
of the road and the next thing they know, they have a swimming pool.
So, I mean, that's what our problems are.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: May I?
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Sure.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes, this is a good opportunity
to tell the commissioners about the meeting that took place last night,
the flood meeting.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Why don't we -- can we --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, I just wanted to make a
short point. That if we're going to get to where we need to be, we're
going to have to have a workshop eventually with the Big Cypress
Basin. And I'll bring that up at the first meeting of next year.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. So we have a motion on the floor
by Commissioner Henning --
MS. FABACHER: Excuse me. Commissioner, excuse me, I
think we have two public speakers, unless they want to -- do you guys
want to talk still? No?
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Public speakers, do you want to -- so we
have a motion on the floor by Commissioner Henning. And who was
the second? Was it you?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: It will be, if you can't remember
who. I can't remember either. I'll be second.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You made the motion.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Commissioner Henning made
the motion.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Somebody's got to the write this
down.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: I did. I will.
And who seconded it?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'll second it.
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CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. Commissioner Fiala seconds this
motion.
Any further discussion before we call the vote on this?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, all those in favor, signify by
saYIng aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Chairman?
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Do we have to talk about an
implementation date? I think Mr. Schmitt has to come to us for a
budget amendment and then advertise for the positions and then fill
them.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Yes, we could do that right now. Why
don't we go ahead and maybe -- Joe, what's your best guess of when
you could handle this particular amendment? Would it be January
30th?
MR. SCHMITT: Coming back to the board at the next board
meeting in January --
CHAIRMAN HALAS: That's the 9th.
MR. SCHMITT: -- we'll talk about additional staff. Of course I
need to hire that staff, which is usually a four to six-month process.
And especially -- and I talk 30-day advertisement. It may be less. It
just depends if anybody responds. These are jobs requiring a
registered professional engineer.
Stan, do we have anybody in the wings for this? I can't think of
anyone.
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MR. CHRZANOWSKI: No, sir. But I expect we'll get a few
internal applicants.
MR. SCHMITT: Yeah, we probably will.
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: We always have interest.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: I'd like to see this the sooner the better to
get implemented.
MR. SCHMITT: This is only the first piece of this. The other
one we were talking about is the individual homes having stormwater
management. This is only if they are requesting a deviation from the
stem wall construction would they submit this design.
What do you think, how many do you think you will get a year
on -- or initially on this?
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: I have no idea.
MR. SCHMITT: Neither do 1.
I think to be safe, we would put a 1 March -- an effective date of
1 March.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Can it be done any sooner than that?
MR. SCHMITT: I'll put down 1 February.
MR. CHRZANOWSKI: I think that's reasonable.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. I just want to make sure that we
can try to address this loophole, because it is pretty serious as far as
what's happening out there.
MR. SCHMITT: This is a review, plus it also will require a site
inspection.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: County Attorney, did you have
something to offer to this?
MR. KLATZKOW: You can always get somebody outside to do
this. If you want to get this done right now but you're concerned
about personnel, you can get somebody outside to initially check up
on this, or we can do an effective date. What's your pleasure?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Wow, that's creative.
Privatizing.
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MS. MURRA Y-ISTENES: Jeff, I'm sorry, do we need to amend
the amendment to put that 45-day effective date in there?
MR. KLATZKOW: It's whatever effective date the board wants.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: We're open for discussion on this.
MS. FABACHER: Excuse me, Commissioner, we have delayed
implementation of the color chart for nine months past the effective
date. You'll recall next color chart. It would take that long to get it
into effect.
And I think we've given ourselves a 60-day effective date delay
on the boat lift canopy process, because we have to do a bunch of
paperwork and get it all -- you know, get it figured out between us and
building.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: So is 60 days doable?
MR. SCHMITT: Commissioner, if I could recommend, I think
that is appropriate. Because if there's people in design right now who
are, for instance, ready to submit, it does give them enough time for
folks to know that this is coming into effect. They know certainly
through the --
CHAIRMAN HALAS: How about 90 days then, if the people
are in design work?
MR. SCHMITT: Yeah, that way they wouldn't have to go back
and --
CHAIRMAN HALAS: And redesign.
MR. SCHMITT: -- modify it. But I think the date that we said, 1
February, is sufficient time. That's --
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, 1 February?
MR. SCHMITT: Yes. So whatever that count date is, 45 days or
whatever that may be.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I make that motion that we not
implement this new language for 60 days.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: All right.
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December 14, 2006
MR. KLATZKOW: To February 1st. Date certain February 1st?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Let me get my calendar out.
MS. F ABACHER: Well, if we pass this tonight, then it will
become effective in about 10 days. Well, with the Christmas and all,
I'm not sure. But we plan to get it in three or four days to the
Department of State in Tallahassee. Once they file it, it's effective.
So to proj ect that exact date --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Why don't you say February 1st,
huh? Is that easier?
MS. FABACHER: That's about 60 days, yeah.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's fine, I'll settle with that.
I'll change it to February 1 st.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: The motion is made to be February 1st,
and it's seconded by Commissioner Fiala.
Any further discussion?
Commissioner Coyle, you've been awful quiet. Okay, I won't
wake you.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Don't wake me up.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Let the sleeping dog lie.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: If there's no further discussion, I'll call
the question on this.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries. Thank you very much.
MS. FABACHER: Okay, Commissioners, if you'll turn to Page
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Q of your summary sheets, we'll start where we left off. And we have
just -- before environmental, we have just one more zoning and land
development regulation amendment to look at. And that is on Page
117 in your green book. It is Section 10.02.13, PUD procedures.
This is where Ray came and spoke to you last time, Ray Bellows,
about we're reformatting our PUD document so it's just not so onerous
on the applicant.
And instead of having him restate everything that's already in the
LDC, all they're going to state is the deviations. I think Ray covered
it. If you have any questions?
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioners do you have any
questions?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion to approve.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Is there a second?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second it.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, I have a motion on the floor by
Commissioner Coletta and a second by Commissioner Coyle.
Not hearing any further discussion, I'll call the question. All
those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries.
MS. FABACHER: Now, Commissioners, I think we're going to
begin our environmental amendments, which is on Page R of the
summary sheet. And we'll begin on Page 123 in the green book. And
the first amendment is the -- a definition for passive recreation.
You'll recall that we struck the Conservation Collier information
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that we had put in other areas about hunting and motorized vehicle
access, and your direction was to put that in the Conservation Collier
ordinance so that all we're left with is purely the definition, which
Compo Planning and Environmental Services both need still beyond
Conservation Collier.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Is there any other discussion on this?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: If you would, please.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Henning I think is trying
to push his button.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I didn't see that.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Are you saying there's no
hunting?
MS. FABACHER: No, sir, I'm saying that we dropped any
discussion of it whatsoever, and your direction was to address that
issue in the Conservation Collier lands ordinance, which is a separate
document that exists. Which we bring up next cycle or bring up when
you review the ordinance and you can discuss the issue of the hunting.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You mean within this
amendment -- definition 1.08?
MS. FABACHER: Yes, sir. 1.08.02 on Page 124.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So we can --
MS. FABACHER: It has nothing about -- we'll have to take that
up either with the Conservation Collier lands ordinance or come back
the next cycle and fully vet that.
MR. SCHMITT: Catherine, I need to explain. You'll recall when
we brought this to you last time, we had the passive recreation
definition. And also included were additional pages, two or three
pages that related to Conservation Collier and some of the language in
the LDC. That has all been removed at the direction of the board.
You asked that that not --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I remember that.
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December 14, 2006
MR. SCHMITT: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: But that wasn't my question.
MR. SCHMITT: Yes, okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We have a definition. Is the
definition saying?
MS. FABACHER: Yes, sir. I mean, if you vote for it.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Was this -- but we're
saying that we cannot do hunting?
MS. F ABACHER: We're just saying that hunting is not
considered an activity that is characterized by non-destructive and so
forth activities. Deemed to have minimal negative impacts on natural
resources or consistent with preservation enhancement, restoration and
maintenance goals for the purpose of habitat conservation.
It doesn't mean that they can't hunting as a management tool. But
for passive recreation to work for the environmental folks and for
compo planning folks, we can't have hunting and -- they don't want
hunting in their preserves, they don't want motorized access in their
preserves.
MR. SCHMITT: But that is not related to this. This is just a
definition of passive recreation. Hunting activities and wherever else
COMMISSIONER HENNING: For preserves.
MS. F ABACHER: It's just across the board.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Across the board.
MS. F ABACHER: Wherever the LDC uses the term passive
recreation. It's in there in many places, mainly in environmental and
in compo planning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: This is not going to be applied
to the rural stewardship lands?
MS. FABACHER: I'm sorry, the what?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The rural stewardship area?
MS. FABACHER: You'd have to ask David Weeks, because he's
Page 17
December 14, 2006
worked with us on this, and he's the one who's given us the guidance.
He needs it. He's not here, sorry.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Would this be applied to
the rural fringe? Don't they have their own amendments, LDC
amendments? Is that yes?
MS. F ABACHER: Wherever those amendments references
passive recreation, we would now have a definition of what passive
recreation means.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I know that in the rural
stewardship area preserve lands are allowed hunting in hunting camps.
So that's --
MS. FABACHER: Ifit says that in the regulations, that's fine.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: That doesn't supersede --
MS. F ABACHER: This doesn't prohibit it. You can state any
use you want. See, the Conservation Collier people wanted to put
originally hunting and vehicular motor use into this definition, but it
wouldn't work for compo planning and it wouldn't work for the
environmental folks. Because they allow some passive recreation in
their preserves, but they certainly don't want you hunting or taking
your four-wheel drive vehicles in there. So we had to find a definition
that would fit everybody. And Conservation Collier will have to come
up with its own language next cycle to do whatever it is they want to
do with the hunting and the --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No, it's not okay.
All the different times that we had discussions on this subj ect, we
brought up the idea of hunting, I never heard the def -- someone come
up and say we don't want hunting in our preserve. Now all of a
sudden we're not going to put it in but we're not going to include it
either. We're going to playa little game of cat and mouse with this.
How about if it had something in there, when appropriate hunting
Page 18
December 14, 2006
would be allowed?
We don't know what we're going to have in the future.
Everything we have at this point in time is at the urban area. Basically
hunting is not allowed. We know that.
MS. F ABACHER: Exactly to the point, sir.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: It is. But what's to say we're not
going to have a large clot of land come into our inventory that will be
outside of the urban area that would be maybe conducive because it's
next to the Picayune Forest and it would lend itself to this?
So by having the language in there, we're not excluding anything
that comes into Collier lands for hunting.
MS. FABACHER: Correct, sir. You're exactly right. And I
think that your direction, the board's direction, was to put it in the
Conservation Collier ordinance because it would be easier to change
the uses more quickly than having to wait a year for an LDC
amendment to change a use.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: What would be the harm of
saying, when appropriate?
MS. FABACHER: Well, we had that in there and you asked that
it be removed.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: It didn't say when appropriate, it
just said --
MS. FABACHER: It said where approved -- in an approved land
management plan for that site. That's what was in there. But--
CHAIRMAN HALAS: County Attorney, can you offer some
guidance here?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah. All I can say is we've lived without
this definition for many years in Collier County.
And if you're concerned about unintended consequences, don't
vote for it. Because I can't tell you what's going to happen with this
and how people are going to interpret it. It's throughout the LDC, this
definition. And some people may take a hard line and say no hunting,
Page 19
December 14, 2006
I don't know.
I don't think anybody ever really discussed in depth this issue
throughout this entire process.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Can we put this on the next cycle, just to
have -- hopefully David Weeks will be here.
MR. KLATZKOW: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. Because I think we need to find
out what the author -- what his intentions were. Obviously he's the
one that put so much time and energy into this thing, and I know that
he's out ill. So if we could put this off to the next cycle so that he
could at least address the issues and concerns that are there.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah. I mean, my thought, Commissioners,
when in doubt, do nothing.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you, Commissioner
Halas.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That means we won't be meeting at
all.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's not a bad idea.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, just one thing, and I
wanted to give an example on this: In the rural fringe, let's say in the
setting area somebody wants to strip their property of their density,
transfer their density, and they decided they wanted a hunting camp on
a large tract of land. This may prohibit it.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: That's where I think we really need to
have the author here.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And I'm just saying, I want to
throw that out. I don't want to prohibit that use.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Coyle?
MR. SCHMITT: Commissioner, I honestly do not think it
prohibits it. This -- and I'm looking --
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Well, we don't know, the author's not
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December 14, 2006
here tonight, okay, so I don't think we -- so do we need to vote on this
to continue this to the next cycle?
MR. KLATZKOW: You can do it that way or you can vote it
down, however you prefer.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I vote to continue.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Let's vote to continue.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion to continue.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, I'll second that.
Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Those against it, like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you.
MS. FABACHER: Commissioners, the next amendment is
section 3.05.02 on Page R of your summary sheet. It's entitled
exemptions from requirements for vegetative protection and
preservation. It's on Page 129 in your green book.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Any discussion from my fellow
commissioners?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, looks like it's changing--
thank you.
MS. FABACHER: Commissioners, at the December 7th meeting
you requested that we remove canals. On Page 132, after publicly
owned right-of-way, and it used to say or publicly owned canals.
And you'll recall the discussion about not wanting people to
Page 21
---_.~,.- '''---"-'~-'-''-'
December 14, 2006
clear-cut along the canals, do you remember, and you asked us to take
that out? So that's what we're doing -- that's what we've done.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: We have a motion on the floor by
Commissioner Henning and a second by Commissioner Fiala.
Any further discussion?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Again, just one quick question.
I'm sorry to have to do this, but this doesn't prohibit water
management from clearing in the right-of-way along their canals?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right, that's what the memo --
MS. MASON: Good evening. For the record, Susan Mason,
Environmental Services.
No, it does not. We would have to evaluate their application for
removing vegetation in their right-of-ways under the current exiting
rules. They have the right to clear in their canal right-of-way.
There are state laws that would prohibit us from preventing them
from doing that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, they would trump us.
There's no way we could regulate that.
MS. MASON: We're going to have to look into that. We've got
copies of the state statute. But it's pretty clear about county -- the
county or local government's ability to regulate their clearing and their
right-of-ways.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, motion on the floor by
Commissioner Henning, seconded by Commissioner Fiala. No further
questions, I'll call the vote.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
Page 22
December 14,2006
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries.
MS. FABACHER: All right, Commissioners, on Page S of your
summary sheet, the next page, we're going to look at amendment to
Section 5.03.06, protection of sea grass beds. That's on Page 139 in
your green book.
This was the one we just explained once before. It's just that a lot
of times you don't need to go out. If you visited the dock next door
when they built it, you look at the aerial maps, you can tell -- an
experienced examiner can tell whether there's sea grass there or not.
So a site visit is not always needed.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, there's a motion on the floor by
Commissioner Halas, second by Commissioner Coletta.
If there's no further question or concerns, I'll call the question.
All those in favor, say aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries.
MS. FABACHER: Thank you, Commissioners. Sorry.
Page 23
December 14,2006
CHAIRMAN HALAS: We're on page--
MS. FABACHER: That was 5-0, right?
We're going to move to Page T on the summary sheets. It's going
to be Page 141 in your green book.
And this is an amendment to Sections 8.06.03, 8.06.04, and
adding Section 8.06.10. And this all has to do with the environmental
advisory committee.
And you directed that they add -- because they had trouble
making a quorum, you directed that they add two alternate members,
which they're doing.
There's also a provision under the power and duties that you
advised that we could leave in that if we ever get the stormwater and
the preserves going, this would give the EAC an opportunity to
remove the stormwater being put into the preserves.
And then the final portion of this amendment is the appeals
section which Mr. Klatzkow wrote. And I believe we had a bit of
discussion on that. But I don't know if he wants to say anything about
it, or you have any questions.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: My question -- I like what I see
here very much.
Jeff, can you tell me, can we use this alternate member may be
requested to attend meetings when regular members have notified staff
when they will be absent for such things as the affordable housing
commission? They had a meeting today and they were short.
MR. KLATZKOW: We can certainly do that for any of your
boards, if you desire, add alternate members. Certainly.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'd kind of like to think that we
could bring this up to the different boards and offer that alternative.
There's nothing more discouraging to a person that blocks their time
out to come to a meeting and when they get to the meeting they find
one person short of a quorum.
Page 24
December 14, 2006
I'd like to -- I don't know if the direction of the commission here
would be to offer this to all of them, but I'd like to see that happen.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: We could put it in this one and then we
can bring it back to a full discussion at one of our meetings.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Which would mean then that they
would be able to vote as well, right?
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Only if there was an absent normal
person.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, that's what I meant. But I
meant not only would they complete the quorum, but then they would
be able to vote, too.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Correct.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Definitely.
MR. KLATZKOW: I will tell you that there's an issue that for
reasons which sort of escape me, we have -- a lot of our boards are
created through the Land Development Code. If you want to make
changes to the board, it's going to require a Land Development Code
mandate. So this may take a little longer than simply next session.
This might be next cycle.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Can you do it by like an ordinance
or something?
MR. KLATZKOW: Ifwe had it in this book, we could, but it's
in this book, so we can't.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion to approve.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: All right. Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, second.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion on the floor by Commissioner
Coletta and a second by Commissioner Fiala. Any further discussion?
(N 0 response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hearing none, I'll call the question. All
those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
Page 25
December 14,2006
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign.
(N 0 response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimous.
MS. FABACHER: All right, Commissioners, we have one more
environmental, and this is going to be on Page U of your summary
sheet and Page 145 in your green book.
This is going to be Section 10.02 .02, submittal requirements for
all applications. And this is a simple one where we eliminated the
requirement for an EIS for just straight rezones that don't require the
approval of a site development plan. Just to kind of give the applicant
a break.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, we have a motion. Do I have a
second?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: We have a motion on the floor by
Commissioner Henning and a second by Commissioner Fiala. Any
further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hearing none, I call the question. All
those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign.
Page 26
December 14, 2006
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimous.
MS. FABACHER: Okay, Commissioners, the next amendment
is on summary sheet U, and it's on Page 151 in your green book. And
the title of -- the section is Section 1.08.01, abbreviations. And our
newest planning commissioner, Mr. Kolflat, has a very thorough job
of trying to find all the words, the acronyms that he doesn't -- isn't
familiar with in the LDC and try to incorporate them. It's a very good
idea for the layman reader.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: No kidding.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, any further discussion? This is a
great idea.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Just one question. Can I pull
this out of the book and put it in with my book? Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Don't tear it out.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I just asked. I got permission.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: This is the -- you can put it in with holes
in it.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's the way you people on
the coast do it.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hearing none, we have a motion on the
floor by Commissioner Coletta and a second by Commissioner Fiala.
No further discussion, all those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
Page 27
December 14,2006
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign.
(N 0 response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimously.
And by the way, I just want to say, Catherine, that this idea that
you have with the green book and separate foldout works immensely.
It works great.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: So much easier.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you.
MS. F ABACHER: I'd like to take credit, but it was Joe's idea.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Joe, all right there.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: In that case, it's terrible.
MR. SCHMITT: And I take credit for that.
THE COURT: This works very well. You can follow along real
easy.
MS. FABACHER: Okay, Commissioners, now we're going to
go to Page V of your summary sheets and Page 155 in the green book,
Section 1.08.02, definitions, mansard sign.
And Diana Compagnone is here to -- she's been here for many
days and nights now waiting to answer any questions that you may
have.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Second that.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: We should give her some reason to
answer questions so she hasn't wasted her time.
MS. FABACHER: Commissioners, she has several more. She
has plenty of opportunity.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Do you have anything to add to this? If
not --
MS. COMPAGNONE: Not really.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, see, now she had a reason to
speak.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion on the floor by Commissioner
Page 28
December 14, 2006
Coyle and seconded by Commissioner Halas.
Any further discussion on this?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimously.
MS. F ABACHER: Don't go far, Diana. I'm going to just go in
order, but you'll be coming up again. Thank you.
Okay, Commissioners, we are on summary Page V, and we're on
Page 159 in the green book. And this is a really simple clarification.
Jean Jordan doesn't -- works for David Jackson now, but she had
written it. And it just -- there are locational criteria for conditional
uses in the GMP, and that was not carried over into our table of
conditional uses.
So what we've done then is just add that in as a footnote to the
table. On 159 it says A at the top, I think if you see the Estates, on
Page 161, if you look at the top of that chart, there's E for Estates and
then there's an A footnote. And then if you look down at the bottom
of the Page 161, for Estates zoning within the Golden Gate Estates
subdivision, the Golden Gate area master plan restricts the location of
conditional uses. So--
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: I have a motion and a second.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Question.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: And question by Commissioner
Page 29
December 14, 2006
Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We're restricting conditional
uses?
MS. FABACHER: The Golden Gate Area Master Plan -- I'm
sorry, yeah, Golden Gate Estates subdivision, Golden Gate Area
Master Plan already does.
MS. MURRA Y-ISTENES: I think she's just -- I'm sorry, Susan
Istenes for the record.
I think she's just putting the footnote in there as a point of
clarification. So anybody looking through that table will notice that
footnote and then go to that and recognize that they need to go check
the Golden Gate master plan to make sure there's no restrictions.
The restrictions are already in place, it's just to try and help the
reader what should apply or what shouldn't.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And that applies to fire stations
and --
MS. MURRA Y-ISTENES: Well, no, we had that discussion last
time.
But there are other restrictions in the Golden Gate Estates master
plan locational-wise for other conditional uses.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Question.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Sure, go ahead.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you. I just want to make
sure, this is the Golden Gate master plan as the Golden Gate Master
Plan Committee has put together and this commission has already
agreed to; is that correct?
MS. FABACHER: Yes, sir, it's in the GMP and been voted on.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Right. And this is just a further
clarification of it.
MS. F ABACHER: Well, this is just so that somebody doesn't
read this and forget to read the master plan and they think they can do
Page 30
December 14,2006
something, but they can't under the GMP.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I hate to be repetitive, but I just
want to make --
MS. FABACHER: No, no, that's--
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- sure we got it. Thank you.
MS. FABACHER: Okay, sure.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Coyle I believe made the
motion, and was it Commissioner Fiala seconded that?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. We have a motion on the floor by
Commissioner Coyle, seconded by Commissioner Fiala. Any further
discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hearing none, I'll call the question. All
those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries.
MS. FABACHER: Thank you, Commissioner.
We're now turned to summary sheet W. And there's two
amendments on here that are both clarifications. Section 2.03.07 and
Section 10.03.05.
And this has to do with some word-smithing, tweaking that we
did to Bayshore and the Gateway Triangle mixed use district overlays.
It's pretty minor. But David Jackson's here. He was here last time to
answer some questions.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: David, do you have anything to add to
Page 31
December 14, 2006
this?
MR. JACKSON: No, sir.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: All right, we have a motion on the floor
by Commissioner Coyle, seconded by Commissioner Henning.
MS. FABACHER: Excuse me, sir, is this for both of these
amendments?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Is your motion for --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: It's for all of the remainder. Does
that make it easier?
MS. FABACHER: It works for me.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, hearing no further discussion, I'll
call the question.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimously.
MS. FABACHER: Thank. Thank you, David.
All right, on the next, Page X of the summary sheet, and Page
183 of your green book, this is going to be Section 2.03.07 also. And
this has to do with the Golden Gate Area Master Plan, or the overlay.
Several years ago Michelle Mosca told me -- it's on 183 -- or
several amendment cycles ago they amended the GMP -- I'm trying to
find it, 183 -- amended the GMP. So we're actually on 184 and 185.
Page 32
December 14,2006
It's a map change that they did in the GMP a couple of years ago, but
it never got translated through to the GMP. So they changed the
boundary and moved it over a block, and they did that a couple of
years ago, but somehow it didn't get codified in the LDC.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion on the floor by Commissioner
Coyle and a second by Commissioner Fiala. Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hearing none, I'll call the question. All
those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: We only have four people on the
commission at this point in time.
MS. FABACHER: All right. Next one is Page X of your
summary sheet. It's Section 4.06.05, general landscaping
requirements. This is really kind of a scrivener's error. When they
wrote the last cycle, when they wrote the amendments for raw water
wells, I think we had a -- county hired a consultant to write it. There
was a typo and they wanted to space the palms around the structures
30 -- they meant to say 30 feet on center, but they said 30 inches on
center. So--
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
Page 33
December 14, 2006
COMMISSIONER FIALA: That's a big one.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, we have a motion on the floor by
Commissioner Coletta, and I believe I heard Commissioner Fiala
come in with a second.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And you did, sir.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Is there any other discussion on this?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hearing none, I'll call the question. All
those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
Opposed by like sign.
(N 0 response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay.
MS. FABACHER: All right, Commissioners, we're on Page Y of
the summary sheet. The first clarification item is Section 4.06.05,
general landscaping requirements. It's Page 191 in your green book.
And we gave Mike Sawyer the night off, but all he did was he
moved -- what it says, he relocates the landscape requirements for
natural and artificial water bodies to go with the rest of the stormwater
facilities, all the water stuff within that chapter. So it was out of place,
he moved it.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: We have a motion on the floor by
Commissioner Coyle, seconded by Commissioner Fiala. Any further
discussion?
(N 0 response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hearing none, I'll call the question. All
Page 34
December 14,2006
those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
Those not in favor by like sign.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimous.
MS. FABACHER: Mr. Henning, did you vote on that one?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I made a motion -- I seconded a
motion to approve all of them. I don't know why we're still here.
MS. FABACHER: But Cherie' had put down 4-0. I just thought
you did vote on that one.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I voted on all of them already.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: I think that was in jest here.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: No, I was dead serious.
MS. FABACHER: Well, moving along pretty fast. Okay, so--
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve the
remainder of the Land Development Code changes for the cycle of
2006.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: I think that we need to go through each
and every one of these. We don't have that much longer to go, and --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's fine, Mr. Chairman.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Just two hours.
MS. FABACHER: No, no, no, this is quick.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: No, we'll be less than two hours.
MS. FABACHER: This is quick.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: I think we'll be out of here before--
slightly after 6:00.
MS. FABACHER: Diane is giving me the signal, hurry up.
On Page Y of your summary sheet, Page 193 in the green book,
this is Sections 4.07.04, Section 5.06.02, Section 5.06.04, Section
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December 14, 2006
5.06.06, Section 10.02.03. All of this to remove a reference to a
unified sign plan, which is not something we do anymore.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, we have a motion on the floor by
Commissioner Coyle, seconded by Commissioner Coletta. Any
further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hearing none, I'll call the question. All
those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimous.
MS. FABACHER: Okay, Commissioners, on Page Z of your
summary sheet, on Page 201 in your green book --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Diana, you're doing a great job.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: We have a motion on the floor by
Commissioner Coletta, seconded by Commissioner Coy Ie. Any
further discussion?
(N 0 response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
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December 14,2006
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: It was actually Commissioner
Coletta who seconded it.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No, I motioned it. I don't care,
whatever it is. I'll be first, second.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Whatever you have in the record.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Whatever you typed is fine.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hold on. Let's get it straight.
(Whereupon, the court reporter read a portion of the record.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you very much for the correction.
Commissioner Coletta made the motion, and it was seconded by
Commissioner Henning.
MS. FABACHER: All right, Commissioners, we're on Page Z of
the summary sheet, the amendment right below the one we just voted
on. This is Section 5.06.04, Page 203 in the green book, and it sets out
standards for signage on multi-story buildings, and also restricts the
distance that a sign may proj ect from a mansard roof facade, which
used to be in the mansard roof definition. And so Diana wanted to put
it in with the provisions -- the operational provisions and take it out of
the definitions.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, we have a motion on the floor by
Commissioner Coyle, seconded by Commissioner Fiala. Any further
discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hearing none, all those in favor, signify
by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
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December 14, 2006
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimously.
MS. FABACHER: Okay, Commissioners, the next one is on
Page AA of the summary sheets. Same section, 5.06.04, sign
standards for specific situations. And it adds -- it's Page 207 in your
green book.
I'm trying to think, did we -- we changed it out in there, didn't
we?
MS. COMPAGNONE: The new green book has the corrected
language.
MS. FABACHER: Pardon me for a second. No, that's correct.
Okay, thank you.
At the last session, September 7th, you had kind of reorganized
this for us, this amendment. It's a signage for public facilities, and
there was a lot of discussion on it, so Diana is bringing back the
language that you directed. And I don't know if you have questions on
it or --
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioners, do we have any
questions on that signage issue?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, I'll second that.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign.
(No response.)
Page 38
December 14,2006
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries.
MS. FABACHER: All right. Next amendment on sheet AA is
another sign amendment, Section 5.06.04. Changes where we measure
the elevation, the height of menu signs at drive-throughs. Instead of
the adjacent street grade, we measure it right there next to the sign.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Motion to approve.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion on the floor by Commissioner
Fiala.
Do I have a second?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Coletta seconded the
motion. Any further discussion?
(N 0 response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimous.
MS. FABACHER: Thank you, Commissioners.
All right, I move to Page BB in your summary sheet, Page 211 in
the green book, Section 5.06.04, sign standards for specific situations.
Change of citation for requirements for window signs at automobile
stations.
And if you have questions, I'm going to ask Diana to address
them, because I don't remember this one at all.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: We have a motion on the floor by
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December 14, 2006
Commissioner Coyle, seconded by Commissioner Henning. If there's
no further questions, I'll call the question. All those in favor, signify
by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimously.
Okay.
MS. FABACHER: All right, sorry, right with you.
Okay, next one is going to be on Page BB of the summary sheet,
Page 213, Section 9.04.04, specific requirements for after-the-fact
encroachments.
I think you remember, I think it was the Douty (phonetic)
variance that the county attorney's office was of the opinion that these
encroachments didn't apply -- applied only -- or the deviations that
you can give applied only to primary structures and not to accessory
structures.
MS. MURRA Y -ISTENES: Yeah, it was administrative
variances was the word you were searching for.
MS. FABACHER: Thanks, Susan.
And another thing that we did was it put back some language that
was omitted during re-codification, which says -- which language
makes no sense without it. Let's see, where is it?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second.
MS. FABACHER: It just said you have to pick four out of these
five criteria. You have to meet four out of these five.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I just thought you had fallen
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December 14, 2006
asleep, that's all.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, I just wanted to find out,
what was one of the people from the Planning Commission that voted
against it, do you know what the reason was?
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Just one person, wasn't it?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I know that, but it's a bit
unusual. It was continuously 7-0, now this suddenly popped up.
If you don't know, don't worry about it. Just trying to see what
kind of objection, this seemed kind of benign to me.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, we got a--
MS. MURRAY-ISTENES: Sorry.
I'm not sure there was even discussion. But do you recall,
Catherine?
MS. FABACHER: There might have been one person that
wanted to make it less than the cri -- make it meet three out of five
instead of four out of five but the other disagreed with making that
change.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, motion on --
MS. FABACHER: Susan?
MS. MURRA Y-ISTENES: Go ahead, I'm sorry. Yeah, I think
you're referring to the boat dock ordinance, not administrative --
MS. FABACHER: No it was on this, too. Oh, you may be right.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, are you--
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm satisfied.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: You're comfortable.
Motion on the floor by Commissioner Coyle, second by
Commissioner Henning. No further discussion, all those if favor,
signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
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December 14,2006
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries.
MS. FABACHER: Okay, we are on Page CC of the summary
sheet. Section 1.08.02. Dock facilities, Page 218 in the green book.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: No further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion on the floor by Commissioner
Henning, seconded by Commissioner Coyle. Hearing no further
discussion, all those in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimously.
MS. FABACHER: Okay, we're on the last sheet of the summary
sheets, DD. And--
MS. MURRA Y-ISTENES: I think Jeff was going to speak to
that.
MR. KLATZKOW: This was the -- the Planning Commission,
or at least some of the commission members, had issues with these
amendments.
I spoke with Mr. Schmitt. My immediate reaction was simply
let's just go back word for word comma, comma what we had before
the old code and worry about any changes later.
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December 14,2006
I then met with Susan earlier today and Ray and Catherine, and
we were going through and it wasn't as simple as that. We changed a
lot of different versions of the old code into the new code, including
yard width and everything else. And it just got more and more
complicated.
And it was my advice just to pull it at this point in time, and so
we can go back next time and get the full Planning Commission to
take a good hard look at this issue and just get it right. I'd rather get it
right than to get it wrong.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Move to continue.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Move to continue, did you say?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Um-hum.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay, second.
MS. FABACHER: To the next cycle.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Right, to the next cycle. That's in your
motion, right?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, there's a motion on the floor to
continue this to the next cycle by Commissioner Henning and
seconded by Commissioner Fiala.
Hearing no further discussion, I'll call the question. All those in
favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimously.
Okay, anything that we need to wrap up on this?
Page 43
December 14,2006
MS. FABACHER: Well, there's one more amendment.
And I apologize, Susan, you're right, this was the one with the
three out of five. .
Last one is Section 5.03.06(G). Dock facilities on Page 223.
And that was the one where it had the phrase where I told you it
needed to be so many criteria that was left out in re-codification. So
that's the same deal. In order for the planning commission to approve
the boat dock extension, it must determine at least four of the five
primary criteria should be met.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Move to approve.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, we have a motion on the floor by
Commissioner Henning, second by Commissioner Coyle.
Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hearing none, I'll call the question. All
those if favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries.
Thank you very much, Commissioners. I know that we all want
to get out of here, but I just felt that we want to make sure that
everything was put on the record and it was straightforward.
And if we don't meet again, I want to wish each and every one of
you and all of staff a happy holiday and happy New Year's.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We will be meeting again on
Monday.
Page 44
December 14,2006
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Well, we're not going to be meeting in
this office, or here on the dais, but I know we'll be meeting with the
City Council, so --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And merry Christmas, right?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And merry Christmas.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: And merry Christmas.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Merry Christmas.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: Happy New Year.
MS. FABACHER: Commissioner, if I could make one
observation. These two books, this one's easier to change, this one
isn't. Look at the size.
CHAIRMAN HALAS: I understand.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Now why is that?
CHAIRMAN HALAS: If there's no further discussion, we are
adjourned.
Page 45
December 14, 2006
*****
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 6:05 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS
CONTROL
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F~~an
ATTEST:
These minutes approved by the Board on \ -~ - 0'0 D ~
as presented ~ or as corrected
,
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT
REPORTING SERVICE, INC. BY CHERIE' NOTTINGHAM.
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