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BCC Minutes 12/14/2006 S (LDC Amendments) December 14, 2006 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS Naples, Florida, December 14, 2006 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County Commissioners in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board( s) of such special districts as have been created according to law and having conducted business herein, met on this date at 5:05 p.m. in SPECIAL SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: Frank Halas Fred Coyle Jim Coletta Donna Fiala Tom Henning ALSO PRESENT: Joseph Schmitt, Community Dev. & Env. Services Catherine Fabacher, Principal Planner Jeffrey Klatzkow, Assistant County Attorney Page 1 COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ~ LDC AGENDA December 14, 2006 5:05 p.m. SPECIAL MEETING NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON ANY AGENDA ITEM MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO SPEAKING. SPEAKERS MUST REGISTER WITH THE COUNTY MANAGER PRIOR TO THE PRESENTATION OF THE AGENDA ITEM TO BE ADDRESSED. COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 2004-05 REQUIRES THAT ALL LOBBYISTS SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE BOARD AT THE BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT. REQUESTS TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON SUBJECTS WHICH ARE NOT ON THIS AGENDA MUST BE SUBMITTED IN WRITING WITH EXPLANATION TO THE COUNTY MANAGER AT LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF THE MEETING AND WILL BE HEARD UNDER "PUBLIC PETITIONS". ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED. ALL REGISTERED PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL BE LIMITED TO FIVE (5) MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN. IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING, YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, TO THE PROVISION OF CERTAIN ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY 1 December 14, 2006 FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT LOCATED AT 3301 EAST T AMIAMI TRAIL, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112, (239) 774-8380; ASSISTED LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' OFFICE. 1. INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE 2. THE BOARD TO CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NUMBER 04-41, AS AMENDED, THE COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, WHICH INCLUDES THE COMPREHENSIVE REGULATIONS FOR THE UNINCORPORATED AREA OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA. 3. ADJOURN 2 December 14, 2006 December 14, 2006 CHAIRMAN HALAS: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. This is a continuation of the Land Development Code's 2006 Cycle 1. And we're finishing up on the second hearing of these Land Development Codes. If each of you would like to rise and we'll say the pledge. (Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.) ORDINANCE 2006-63: THE BOARD TO CONSIDER AN ORDINANCE AMENDING ORDINANCE NUMBER 04-41, AS AMENDED, THE COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE, WHICH INCLUDES THE COMPREHENSIVE REGULATIONS FOR THE UNINCORPORATED AREA OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA - ADOPTED W/CHANGES CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you very much. Catherine, if you can lead us off here. I believe that -- MS. FABACHER: Yes, sir. We have a couple of people in the audience. I think Director Arnold would like to go first for Code Enforcement. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. MS. FABACHER: And that is in Page CC of your summary sheet. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm sorry, I don't think the mic's working. I can't hear you. MR. SCHMITT: You've got to speak into it. Catherine, would you highlight for the record this is the second hearing? MS. FABACHER: The second meeting of the final hearing. MR. SCHMITT: Second meeting of the final hearing, thank you. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: What again? What page again? COMMISSIONER COYLE: CC on the -- MS. F ABACHER: CC on the summary sheet on Page 217 in Page 2 December 14,2006 your green book. And I might remind Commissioners that this is the definitions of commercial equipment, commercial vehicle that we're returning as an omission from the code, from the re-codification. And there were some questions raised about lawnmowers. And Mrs. Arnold has some text changes for you. MS. ARNOLD: Yes. For the record, Michelle Arnold, Code Enforcement Director. I understand that there was some concerns about how this would be enforced with regard to the normal everyday citizen, whether or not it would apply to just the generallawnmower that is left out in the yard. And just to avoid confusion, we've stricken that. We're recommending striking that language out of there. This is language that has been previously in the code. It was omitted with the codification of the LDC. And we just want to put it back in for clarification. It's not intended to apply to just the, you know, everyday citizen with a lawnmower. If the board had any other questions, I'd be happy to answer them. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Henning? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Are you recommending any text change to this, or not? MS. ARNOLD: What we would be recommending in response to your concern was to strike through lawnmowers, paren. push type or tractor. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Henning, can I ask a question? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes. CHAIRMAN HALAS: What's this in relation to, tractors and lawnmowers? Can you -- COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, this is a definition for Page 3 December 14, 2006 enforcing the commercial vehicle ordinance. MS. ARNOLD: Commercial vehicle and equipment portion of the LDC. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes. MS. ARNOLD: And we're putting -- the language was left into the Land Development Code with regard to what is a commercial vehicle and equipment, or what the regulations and where they could be stored on property. But the definition was omitted, so we are asking to put the definition back in. CHAIRMAN HALAS: I take it this is for people who have a riding lawnmower or lawnmowers that they can keep them on their property? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay, the commercial vehicle equipment and -- commercial vehicle and equipment ordinance doesn't allow for storage of vehicles of nature in a residential zoning without properly being screened. The definition that -- Ms. Arnold is absolutely right, this is the same language that was in the original LDC before the codification. And her recommendation is to strike lawnmower and like. But I might have a better suggestion, if you don't mind? MS. ARNOLD: Okay. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Can we -- commercial equipment. Commercial equipment commonly used -- MS. ARNOLD: The language says any equipment commonly used in a commercial business, regardless of if the equipment is actually owned or utilized by a business. Commercial equipment shall include the following. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Ifwe remove the word "commonly" and say any equipment used in commercial businesses regarding equipment. MS. ARNOLD: Okay. COMMISSIONER HENNING: And then you could leave in the Page 4 December 14,2006 other stuff. MS. ARNOLD: Okay. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Because actually, if you have a trailer -- MS. ARNOLD: Right. COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- with push lawnmowers on it, by striking this you're saying it's okay, and we don't want to do that. But if you just remove that word, it catches everything. MS. ARNOLD: Commonly. Okay, so remove the word commonly only, and leave back in lawnmowers, paren., push type or tractor. We could live with that. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is that okay? MR. SCHMITT: It works. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you for the clarification. Appreciate that, Commissioner. MS. F ABACHER: Commissioner, did you want to go ahead and vote on these as we go through them? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve as amended. This one is LDC 1.5, definition Section 1.08.02. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Page 217, right? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, 217, as amended, by removing the word in the first paragraph, "commonly". COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, we have a motion on the floor by Commissioner Henning and a second by Commissioner Fiala to approve this definition as amended. Any further discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hearing none, I'll call the question. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. Page 5 December 14, 2006 CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign. (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries 5-0. MS. FABACHER: Great. Commissioners, now I think we have two speakers on Stan's amendment which was -- which is on Page L of your summary sheet. It's Section 4.03.05, subdivision design regulations. And it's on Page 85 in your green book. Add a maximum limit on the height of fill pads for single residential single-family houses. MR. CHRZANOWSKI: Yes, good evening, Commissioners. Stan Chrzanowski with Engineering Review. This is the second time you're hearing this amendment. What this is about is to limit the height of fill pads under homes. Because as a fill pad gets higher, like any pyramid, as the pyramid gets taller the base of the pyramid gets wider. And if we let them go too high, the base gets very wide and it takes up a lot more of usually floodplain storage, water storage. We have a problem with the runoff onto adjacent lots. I can go into it in more depth, but I think you probably remember it from last time, and I can stop right here. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Could we -- sure, go ahead. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes, thank you. CHAIRMAN HALAS: I think we got public speakers on this, too? MS. FABACHER: Yes, we do. And Commissioners, may I state for the record that there should be two, an A and a B in your text that didn't get into this copy here. And it's -- I'm on Page 86, house pad height limit requirements. And it says -- let's see, I'm down on the fourth line. Permit or Page 6 December 14,2006 environmental resource permit, ERP, and that do not also have A, a central backbone, stormwater runoff collection, and B, treatment system. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, gotcha. MS. FABACHER: I apologize for that. MR. CHRZANOWSKI: Actually the B should be in a different spot. Central -- that do not have a central backbone stormwater runoff collection and treatment system, swales and lakes or retention areas. Oh, no. MS. FABACHER: That's what I said, B. MR. CHRZANOWSKI: Oh, I'm sorry. You're right. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay, so A is just the central backbone stormwater runoff collection? A in parenthesis, right? CHAIRMAN HALAS: And what was the B part? MS. FABACHER: It was the treatment system. MR. CHRZANOWSKI: It was the treatment system. Swales and lakes or retention areas. So you have to have both. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. Commissioner Coletta has a question here. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes. Stan, this doesn't in any way bring people down so they're going to end up being in a floodplain. This still -- we're still requiring them to be built at a certain height. It's just that they have to use something other than fill to get to that height. MR. CHRZANOWSKI: At the risk of playing with words, they're in the floodplain already if they're in an A zone. So there's a couple of ways to get out of the floodplain. You can build a very large mound and put in for a letter of map amendment and have yourself removed from the floodplain, but that doesn't solve the problem that you're putting fill into the floodplain and raising the water on other people and in some cases shedding water on other people. Page 7 December 14,2006 You can still build a stem wall and build your first -- you can build up on piles and build your first finished floor 10 feet above the flood elevation. This doesn't -- as a matter of fact, I think we've got something coming up in the flood or watershed management plan that says we want you to have a foot of free board above the floodplain base flood elevation to your first finished floor. This has no effect on finished floor. You can come up on stem wall and build as high as you want. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And this isn't the answer to everything we're trying to accomplish out there. You still have other things in the works you're going to be bringing forward. MR. CHRZANOWSKI: Yes, sir, mega houses this cycle. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay, thank you. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Henning? COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'm going to make a motion to approve, but I do have a question. What do you do with those lots in Golden Gate Estates that are lower than others? Some people call them wetlands. Do you just put in extra blocks to get to your height? MR. CHRZANOWSKI: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Yeah. I think this is a great amendment. As older neighborhoods become redeveloped, what's happening in not only in Naples Park and Palm River and also Pine Ridge is that the flood elevations, people are building up to the point where when the runoff -- the neighbor in the back or the neighbor on the side ends up as a retention pond. And so I think this is a great step forward in trying to eliminate runoff onto adjacent properties. And-- MR. CHRZANOWSKI: If I could add one thing. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Sure. MR. CHRZANOWSKI: There's a paragraph in here, exceptions to the section can be sought based on a site stormwater retention Page 8 December 14,2006 design done by a professional engineer, et cetera. If a lot of people go with that, we're going to -- we already have a request in for a couple more engineers. Like everybody, we're claiming we don't have enough staff to do our job right now. We're going to be adding to our job right now. And I would just as soon prefer to put this off a bit as far as enforcement goes. But that's up to Joe. If Joe thinks we can handle it, I guess we will. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Well, when would these take effect? ASAP? MR. CHRZANOWSKI: I think they take effect as soon as you approve them. MR. SCHMITT: Within-- MS. FABACHER: The effective date-- MR. SCHMITT: -- 10 days. MS. F ABACHER: -- once it's filed with the Department of State. CHAIRMAN HALAS: And how long does that take? MS. F ABACHER: Generally 10 days after you sign it. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. MR. CHRZANOWSKI: We might be giving ourselves a lot more work. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Well, I think it's work that -- I understand where you're coming from, but I think it's work that needs to be done. Because I know in my district, and I'm sure that Commissioner Fiala has run in the same problem, and Commissioner Coletta, whereby we're having a problem, huge problem with stormwater runoff, especially with these huge mega homes. And some of these pads are being built up as high as four and five feet and then they start building the home. And of course the people around there who were built back in the Page 9 December 14, 2006 Sixties and Seventies and even the Eighties, there was no real FEMA requirement. So they may be only eight or 10 inches above the crown of the road and the next thing they know, they have a swimming pool. So, I mean, that's what our problems are. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: May I? CHAIRMAN HALAS: Sure. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes, this is a good opportunity to tell the commissioners about the meeting that took place last night, the flood meeting. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Why don't we -- can we -- COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, I just wanted to make a short point. That if we're going to get to where we need to be, we're going to have to have a workshop eventually with the Big Cypress Basin. And I'll bring that up at the first meeting of next year. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. So we have a motion on the floor by Commissioner Henning -- MS. FABACHER: Excuse me. Commissioner, excuse me, I think we have two public speakers, unless they want to -- do you guys want to talk still? No? CHAIRMAN HALAS: Public speakers, do you want to -- so we have a motion on the floor by Commissioner Henning. And who was the second? Was it you? COMMISSIONER COLETTA: It will be, if you can't remember who. I can't remember either. I'll be second. COMMISSIONER FIALA: You made the motion. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Commissioner Henning made the motion. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Somebody's got to the write this down. CHAIRMAN HALAS: I did. I will. And who seconded it? COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'll second it. Page 10 December 14, 2006 CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. Commissioner Fiala seconds this motion. Any further discussion before we call the vote on this? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, all those in favor, signify by saYIng aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries. Thank you. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN HALAS: Yes. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Do we have to talk about an implementation date? I think Mr. Schmitt has to come to us for a budget amendment and then advertise for the positions and then fill them. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Yes, we could do that right now. Why don't we go ahead and maybe -- Joe, what's your best guess of when you could handle this particular amendment? Would it be January 30th? MR. SCHMITT: Coming back to the board at the next board meeting in January -- CHAIRMAN HALAS: That's the 9th. MR. SCHMITT: -- we'll talk about additional staff. Of course I need to hire that staff, which is usually a four to six-month process. And especially -- and I talk 30-day advertisement. It may be less. It just depends if anybody responds. These are jobs requiring a registered professional engineer. Stan, do we have anybody in the wings for this? I can't think of anyone. Page 11 December 14,2006 MR. CHRZANOWSKI: No, sir. But I expect we'll get a few internal applicants. MR. SCHMITT: Yeah, we probably will. MR. CHRZANOWSKI: We always have interest. CHAIRMAN HALAS: I'd like to see this the sooner the better to get implemented. MR. SCHMITT: This is only the first piece of this. The other one we were talking about is the individual homes having stormwater management. This is only if they are requesting a deviation from the stem wall construction would they submit this design. What do you think, how many do you think you will get a year on -- or initially on this? MR. CHRZANOWSKI: I have no idea. MR. SCHMITT: Neither do 1. I think to be safe, we would put a 1 March -- an effective date of 1 March. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Can it be done any sooner than that? MR. SCHMITT: I'll put down 1 February. MR. CHRZANOWSKI: I think that's reasonable. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. I just want to make sure that we can try to address this loophole, because it is pretty serious as far as what's happening out there. MR. SCHMITT: This is a review, plus it also will require a site inspection. CHAIRMAN HALAS: County Attorney, did you have something to offer to this? MR. KLATZKOW: You can always get somebody outside to do this. If you want to get this done right now but you're concerned about personnel, you can get somebody outside to initially check up on this, or we can do an effective date. What's your pleasure? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Wow, that's creative. Privatizing. Page 12 December 14, 2006 MS. MURRA Y-ISTENES: Jeff, I'm sorry, do we need to amend the amendment to put that 45-day effective date in there? MR. KLATZKOW: It's whatever effective date the board wants. CHAIRMAN HALAS: We're open for discussion on this. MS. FABACHER: Excuse me, Commissioner, we have delayed implementation of the color chart for nine months past the effective date. You'll recall next color chart. It would take that long to get it into effect. And I think we've given ourselves a 60-day effective date delay on the boat lift canopy process, because we have to do a bunch of paperwork and get it all -- you know, get it figured out between us and building. CHAIRMAN HALAS: So is 60 days doable? MR. SCHMITT: Commissioner, if I could recommend, I think that is appropriate. Because if there's people in design right now who are, for instance, ready to submit, it does give them enough time for folks to know that this is coming into effect. They know certainly through the -- CHAIRMAN HALAS: How about 90 days then, if the people are in design work? MR. SCHMITT: Yeah, that way they wouldn't have to go back and -- CHAIRMAN HALAS: And redesign. MR. SCHMITT: -- modify it. But I think the date that we said, 1 February, is sufficient time. That's -- CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, 1 February? MR. SCHMITT: Yes. So whatever that count date is, 45 days or whatever that may be. COMMISSIONER HENNING: I make that motion that we not implement this new language for 60 days. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second. CHAIRMAN HALAS: All right. Page 13 December 14, 2006 MR. KLATZKOW: To February 1st. Date certain February 1st? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Let me get my calendar out. MS. F ABACHER: Well, if we pass this tonight, then it will become effective in about 10 days. Well, with the Christmas and all, I'm not sure. But we plan to get it in three or four days to the Department of State in Tallahassee. Once they file it, it's effective. So to proj ect that exact date -- COMMISSIONER FIALA: Why don't you say February 1st, huh? Is that easier? MS. FABACHER: That's about 60 days, yeah. COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's fine, I'll settle with that. I'll change it to February 1 st. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second. CHAIRMAN HALAS: The motion is made to be February 1st, and it's seconded by Commissioner Fiala. Any further discussion? Commissioner Coyle, you've been awful quiet. Okay, I won't wake you. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Don't wake me up. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Let the sleeping dog lie. CHAIRMAN HALAS: If there's no further discussion, I'll call the question on this. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign. (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries. Thank you very much. MS. FABACHER: Okay, Commissioners, if you'll turn to Page Page 14 December 14, 2006 Q of your summary sheets, we'll start where we left off. And we have just -- before environmental, we have just one more zoning and land development regulation amendment to look at. And that is on Page 117 in your green book. It is Section 10.02.13, PUD procedures. This is where Ray came and spoke to you last time, Ray Bellows, about we're reformatting our PUD document so it's just not so onerous on the applicant. And instead of having him restate everything that's already in the LDC, all they're going to state is the deviations. I think Ray covered it. If you have any questions? CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioners do you have any questions? COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion to approve. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Is there a second? COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second it. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, I have a motion on the floor by Commissioner Coletta and a second by Commissioner Coyle. Not hearing any further discussion, I'll call the question. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign. (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries. MS. FABACHER: Now, Commissioners, I think we're going to begin our environmental amendments, which is on Page R of the summary sheet. And we'll begin on Page 123 in the green book. And the first amendment is the -- a definition for passive recreation. You'll recall that we struck the Conservation Collier information Page 15 December 14, 2006 that we had put in other areas about hunting and motorized vehicle access, and your direction was to put that in the Conservation Collier ordinance so that all we're left with is purely the definition, which Compo Planning and Environmental Services both need still beyond Conservation Collier. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Is there any other discussion on this? COMMISSIONER COLETTA: If you would, please. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Henning I think is trying to push his button. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I didn't see that. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Henning? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Are you saying there's no hunting? MS. FABACHER: No, sir, I'm saying that we dropped any discussion of it whatsoever, and your direction was to address that issue in the Conservation Collier lands ordinance, which is a separate document that exists. Which we bring up next cycle or bring up when you review the ordinance and you can discuss the issue of the hunting. COMMISSIONER HENNING: You mean within this amendment -- definition 1.08? MS. FABACHER: Yes, sir. 1.08.02 on Page 124. COMMISSIONER HENNING: So we can -- MS. FABACHER: It has nothing about -- we'll have to take that up either with the Conservation Collier lands ordinance or come back the next cycle and fully vet that. MR. SCHMITT: Catherine, I need to explain. You'll recall when we brought this to you last time, we had the passive recreation definition. And also included were additional pages, two or three pages that related to Conservation Collier and some of the language in the LDC. That has all been removed at the direction of the board. You asked that that not -- COMMISSIONER HENNING: I remember that. Page 16 December 14, 2006 MR. SCHMITT: Yes. COMMISSIONER HENNING: But that wasn't my question. MR. SCHMITT: Yes, okay. COMMISSIONER HENNING: We have a definition. Is the definition saying? MS. FABACHER: Yes, sir. I mean, if you vote for it. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Was this -- but we're saying that we cannot do hunting? MS. F ABACHER: We're just saying that hunting is not considered an activity that is characterized by non-destructive and so forth activities. Deemed to have minimal negative impacts on natural resources or consistent with preservation enhancement, restoration and maintenance goals for the purpose of habitat conservation. It doesn't mean that they can't hunting as a management tool. But for passive recreation to work for the environmental folks and for compo planning folks, we can't have hunting and -- they don't want hunting in their preserves, they don't want motorized access in their preserves. MR. SCHMITT: But that is not related to this. This is just a definition of passive recreation. Hunting activities and wherever else COMMISSIONER HENNING: For preserves. MS. F ABACHER: It's just across the board. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Across the board. MS. F ABACHER: Wherever the LDC uses the term passive recreation. It's in there in many places, mainly in environmental and in compo planning. COMMISSIONER HENNING: This is not going to be applied to the rural stewardship lands? MS. FABACHER: I'm sorry, the what? COMMISSIONER HENNING: The rural stewardship area? MS. FABACHER: You'd have to ask David Weeks, because he's Page 17 December 14, 2006 worked with us on this, and he's the one who's given us the guidance. He needs it. He's not here, sorry. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Would this be applied to the rural fringe? Don't they have their own amendments, LDC amendments? Is that yes? MS. F ABACHER: Wherever those amendments references passive recreation, we would now have a definition of what passive recreation means. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I know that in the rural stewardship area preserve lands are allowed hunting in hunting camps. So that's -- MS. FABACHER: Ifit says that in the regulations, that's fine. CHAIRMAN HALAS: That doesn't supersede -- MS. F ABACHER: This doesn't prohibit it. You can state any use you want. See, the Conservation Collier people wanted to put originally hunting and vehicular motor use into this definition, but it wouldn't work for compo planning and it wouldn't work for the environmental folks. Because they allow some passive recreation in their preserves, but they certainly don't want you hunting or taking your four-wheel drive vehicles in there. So we had to find a definition that would fit everybody. And Conservation Collier will have to come up with its own language next cycle to do whatever it is they want to do with the hunting and the -- COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Coletta? COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No, it's not okay. All the different times that we had discussions on this subj ect, we brought up the idea of hunting, I never heard the def -- someone come up and say we don't want hunting in our preserve. Now all of a sudden we're not going to put it in but we're not going to include it either. We're going to playa little game of cat and mouse with this. How about if it had something in there, when appropriate hunting Page 18 December 14, 2006 would be allowed? We don't know what we're going to have in the future. Everything we have at this point in time is at the urban area. Basically hunting is not allowed. We know that. MS. F ABACHER: Exactly to the point, sir. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: It is. But what's to say we're not going to have a large clot of land come into our inventory that will be outside of the urban area that would be maybe conducive because it's next to the Picayune Forest and it would lend itself to this? So by having the language in there, we're not excluding anything that comes into Collier lands for hunting. MS. FABACHER: Correct, sir. You're exactly right. And I think that your direction, the board's direction, was to put it in the Conservation Collier ordinance because it would be easier to change the uses more quickly than having to wait a year for an LDC amendment to change a use. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: What would be the harm of saying, when appropriate? MS. FABACHER: Well, we had that in there and you asked that it be removed. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: It didn't say when appropriate, it just said -- MS. FABACHER: It said where approved -- in an approved land management plan for that site. That's what was in there. But-- CHAIRMAN HALAS: County Attorney, can you offer some guidance here? MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah. All I can say is we've lived without this definition for many years in Collier County. And if you're concerned about unintended consequences, don't vote for it. Because I can't tell you what's going to happen with this and how people are going to interpret it. It's throughout the LDC, this definition. And some people may take a hard line and say no hunting, Page 19 December 14, 2006 I don't know. I don't think anybody ever really discussed in depth this issue throughout this entire process. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Can we put this on the next cycle, just to have -- hopefully David Weeks will be here. MR. KLATZKOW: Absolutely. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. Because I think we need to find out what the author -- what his intentions were. Obviously he's the one that put so much time and energy into this thing, and I know that he's out ill. So if we could put this off to the next cycle so that he could at least address the issues and concerns that are there. MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah. I mean, my thought, Commissioners, when in doubt, do nothing. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you, Commissioner Halas. COMMISSIONER COYLE: That means we won't be meeting at all. COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's not a bad idea. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, Commissioner Henning? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, just one thing, and I wanted to give an example on this: In the rural fringe, let's say in the setting area somebody wants to strip their property of their density, transfer their density, and they decided they wanted a hunting camp on a large tract of land. This may prohibit it. CHAIRMAN HALAS: That's where I think we really need to have the author here. COMMISSIONER HENNING: And I'm just saying, I want to throw that out. I don't want to prohibit that use. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Coyle? MR. SCHMITT: Commissioner, I honestly do not think it prohibits it. This -- and I'm looking -- CHAIRMAN HALAS: Well, we don't know, the author's not Page 20 December 14, 2006 here tonight, okay, so I don't think we -- so do we need to vote on this to continue this to the next cycle? MR. KLATZKOW: You can do it that way or you can vote it down, however you prefer. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I vote to continue. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Let's vote to continue. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion to continue. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, I'll second that. Any further discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: All those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Those against it, like sign. (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you. MS. FABACHER: Commissioners, the next amendment is section 3.05.02 on Page R of your summary sheet. It's entitled exemptions from requirements for vegetative protection and preservation. It's on Page 129 in your green book. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Any discussion from my fellow commissioners? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, looks like it's changing-- thank you. MS. FABACHER: Commissioners, at the December 7th meeting you requested that we remove canals. On Page 132, after publicly owned right-of-way, and it used to say or publicly owned canals. And you'll recall the discussion about not wanting people to Page 21 ---_.~,.- '''---"-'~-'-''-' December 14, 2006 clear-cut along the canals, do you remember, and you asked us to take that out? So that's what we're doing -- that's what we've done. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second. CHAIRMAN HALAS: We have a motion on the floor by Commissioner Henning and a second by Commissioner Fiala. Any further discussion? COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Again, just one quick question. I'm sorry to have to do this, but this doesn't prohibit water management from clearing in the right-of-way along their canals? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right, that's what the memo -- MS. MASON: Good evening. For the record, Susan Mason, Environmental Services. No, it does not. We would have to evaluate their application for removing vegetation in their right-of-ways under the current exiting rules. They have the right to clear in their canal right-of-way. There are state laws that would prohibit us from preventing them from doing that. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, they would trump us. There's no way we could regulate that. MS. MASON: We're going to have to look into that. We've got copies of the state statute. But it's pretty clear about county -- the county or local government's ability to regulate their clearing and their right-of-ways. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, motion on the floor by Commissioner Henning, seconded by Commissioner Fiala. No further questions, I'll call the vote. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. Page 22 December 14,2006 CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign. (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries. MS. FABACHER: All right, Commissioners, on Page S of your summary sheet, the next page, we're going to look at amendment to Section 5.03.06, protection of sea grass beds. That's on Page 139 in your green book. This was the one we just explained once before. It's just that a lot of times you don't need to go out. If you visited the dock next door when they built it, you look at the aerial maps, you can tell -- an experienced examiner can tell whether there's sea grass there or not. So a site visit is not always needed. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. Motion to approve. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, any further discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, there's a motion on the floor by Commissioner Halas, second by Commissioner Coletta. If there's no further question or concerns, I'll call the question. All those in favor, say aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign. (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries. MS. FABACHER: Thank you, Commissioners. Sorry. Page 23 December 14,2006 CHAIRMAN HALAS: We're on page-- MS. FABACHER: That was 5-0, right? We're going to move to Page T on the summary sheets. It's going to be Page 141 in your green book. And this is an amendment to Sections 8.06.03, 8.06.04, and adding Section 8.06.10. And this all has to do with the environmental advisory committee. And you directed that they add -- because they had trouble making a quorum, you directed that they add two alternate members, which they're doing. There's also a provision under the power and duties that you advised that we could leave in that if we ever get the stormwater and the preserves going, this would give the EAC an opportunity to remove the stormwater being put into the preserves. And then the final portion of this amendment is the appeals section which Mr. Klatzkow wrote. And I believe we had a bit of discussion on that. But I don't know if he wants to say anything about it, or you have any questions. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Coletta? COMMISSIONER COLETTA: My question -- I like what I see here very much. Jeff, can you tell me, can we use this alternate member may be requested to attend meetings when regular members have notified staff when they will be absent for such things as the affordable housing commission? They had a meeting today and they were short. MR. KLATZKOW: We can certainly do that for any of your boards, if you desire, add alternate members. Certainly. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'd kind of like to think that we could bring this up to the different boards and offer that alternative. There's nothing more discouraging to a person that blocks their time out to come to a meeting and when they get to the meeting they find one person short of a quorum. Page 24 December 14, 2006 I'd like to -- I don't know if the direction of the commission here would be to offer this to all of them, but I'd like to see that happen. CHAIRMAN HALAS: We could put it in this one and then we can bring it back to a full discussion at one of our meetings. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Which would mean then that they would be able to vote as well, right? CHAIRMAN HALAS: Only if there was an absent normal person. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, that's what I meant. But I meant not only would they complete the quorum, but then they would be able to vote, too. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Correct. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Definitely. MR. KLATZKOW: I will tell you that there's an issue that for reasons which sort of escape me, we have -- a lot of our boards are created through the Land Development Code. If you want to make changes to the board, it's going to require a Land Development Code mandate. So this may take a little longer than simply next session. This might be next cycle. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Can you do it by like an ordinance or something? MR. KLATZKOW: Ifwe had it in this book, we could, but it's in this book, so we can't. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion to approve. CHAIRMAN HALAS: All right. Do I have a second? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, second. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion on the floor by Commissioner Coletta and a second by Commissioner Fiala. Any further discussion? (N 0 response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hearing none, I'll call the question. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. Page 25 December 14,2006 COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign. (N 0 response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimous. MS. FABACHER: All right, Commissioners, we have one more environmental, and this is going to be on Page U of your summary sheet and Page 145 in your green book. This is going to be Section 10.02 .02, submittal requirements for all applications. And this is a simple one where we eliminated the requirement for an EIS for just straight rezones that don't require the approval of a site development plan. Just to kind of give the applicant a break. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, we have a motion. Do I have a second? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second. CHAIRMAN HALAS: We have a motion on the floor by Commissioner Henning and a second by Commissioner Fiala. Any further discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hearing none, I call the question. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign. Page 26 December 14, 2006 (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimous. MS. FABACHER: Okay, Commissioners, the next amendment is on summary sheet U, and it's on Page 151 in your green book. And the title of -- the section is Section 1.08.01, abbreviations. And our newest planning commissioner, Mr. Kolflat, has a very thorough job of trying to find all the words, the acronyms that he doesn't -- isn't familiar with in the LDC and try to incorporate them. It's a very good idea for the layman reader. CHAIRMAN HALAS: No kidding. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion to approve. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, any further discussion? This is a great idea. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Just one question. Can I pull this out of the book and put it in with my book? Thank you. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Don't tear it out. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I just asked. I got permission. CHAIRMAN HALAS: This is the -- you can put it in with holes in it. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's the way you people on the coast do it. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Any further discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hearing none, we have a motion on the floor by Commissioner Coletta and a second by Commissioner Fiala. No further discussion, all those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. Page 27 December 14,2006 CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign. (N 0 response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimously. And by the way, I just want to say, Catherine, that this idea that you have with the green book and separate foldout works immensely. It works great. COMMISSIONER FIALA: So much easier. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you. MS. F ABACHER: I'd like to take credit, but it was Joe's idea. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Joe, all right there. COMMISSIONER COYLE: In that case, it's terrible. MR. SCHMITT: And I take credit for that. THE COURT: This works very well. You can follow along real easy. MS. FABACHER: Okay, Commissioners, now we're going to go to Page V of your summary sheets and Page 155 in the green book, Section 1.08.02, definitions, mansard sign. And Diana Compagnone is here to -- she's been here for many days and nights now waiting to answer any questions that you may have. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Second that. COMMISSIONER FIALA: We should give her some reason to answer questions so she hasn't wasted her time. MS. FABACHER: Commissioners, she has several more. She has plenty of opportunity. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Do you have anything to add to this? If not -- MS. COMPAGNONE: Not really. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, see, now she had a reason to speak. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion on the floor by Commissioner Page 28 December 14, 2006 Coyle and seconded by Commissioner Halas. Any further discussion on this? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: All those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign. (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimously. MS. F ABACHER: Don't go far, Diana. I'm going to just go in order, but you'll be coming up again. Thank you. Okay, Commissioners, we are on summary Page V, and we're on Page 159 in the green book. And this is a really simple clarification. Jean Jordan doesn't -- works for David Jackson now, but she had written it. And it just -- there are locational criteria for conditional uses in the GMP, and that was not carried over into our table of conditional uses. So what we've done then is just add that in as a footnote to the table. On 159 it says A at the top, I think if you see the Estates, on Page 161, if you look at the top of that chart, there's E for Estates and then there's an A footnote. And then if you look down at the bottom of the Page 161, for Estates zoning within the Golden Gate Estates subdivision, the Golden Gate area master plan restricts the location of conditional uses. So-- COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second. CHAIRMAN HALAS: I have a motion and a second. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Question. CHAIRMAN HALAS: And question by Commissioner Page 29 December 14, 2006 Henning. COMMISSIONER HENNING: We're restricting conditional uses? MS. FABACHER: The Golden Gate Area Master Plan -- I'm sorry, yeah, Golden Gate Estates subdivision, Golden Gate Area Master Plan already does. MS. MURRA Y-ISTENES: I think she's just -- I'm sorry, Susan Istenes for the record. I think she's just putting the footnote in there as a point of clarification. So anybody looking through that table will notice that footnote and then go to that and recognize that they need to go check the Golden Gate master plan to make sure there's no restrictions. The restrictions are already in place, it's just to try and help the reader what should apply or what shouldn't. COMMISSIONER HENNING: And that applies to fire stations and -- MS. MURRA Y-ISTENES: Well, no, we had that discussion last time. But there are other restrictions in the Golden Gate Estates master plan locational-wise for other conditional uses. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Question. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Sure, go ahead. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you. I just want to make sure, this is the Golden Gate master plan as the Golden Gate Master Plan Committee has put together and this commission has already agreed to; is that correct? MS. FABACHER: Yes, sir, it's in the GMP and been voted on. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Right. And this is just a further clarification of it. MS. F ABACHER: Well, this is just so that somebody doesn't read this and forget to read the master plan and they think they can do Page 30 December 14,2006 something, but they can't under the GMP. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I hate to be repetitive, but I just want to make -- MS. FABACHER: No, no, that's-- COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- sure we got it. Thank you. MS. FABACHER: Okay, sure. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Coyle I believe made the motion, and was it Commissioner Fiala seconded that? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. We have a motion on the floor by Commissioner Coyle, seconded by Commissioner Fiala. Any further discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hearing none, I'll call the question. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign. (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries. MS. FABACHER: Thank you, Commissioner. We're now turned to summary sheet W. And there's two amendments on here that are both clarifications. Section 2.03.07 and Section 10.03.05. And this has to do with some word-smithing, tweaking that we did to Bayshore and the Gateway Triangle mixed use district overlays. It's pretty minor. But David Jackson's here. He was here last time to answer some questions. CHAIRMAN HALAS: David, do you have anything to add to Page 31 December 14, 2006 this? MR. JACKSON: No, sir. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second. CHAIRMAN HALAS: All right, we have a motion on the floor by Commissioner Coyle, seconded by Commissioner Henning. MS. FABACHER: Excuse me, sir, is this for both of these amendments? COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Is your motion for -- COMMISSIONER COYLE: It's for all of the remainder. Does that make it easier? MS. FABACHER: It works for me. COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'll second that. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, hearing no further discussion, I'll call the question. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign. (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimously. MS. FABACHER: Thank. Thank you, David. All right, on the next, Page X of the summary sheet, and Page 183 of your green book, this is going to be Section 2.03.07 also. And this has to do with the Golden Gate Area Master Plan, or the overlay. Several years ago Michelle Mosca told me -- it's on 183 -- or several amendment cycles ago they amended the GMP -- I'm trying to find it, 183 -- amended the GMP. So we're actually on 184 and 185. Page 32 December 14,2006 It's a map change that they did in the GMP a couple of years ago, but it never got translated through to the GMP. So they changed the boundary and moved it over a block, and they did that a couple of years ago, but somehow it didn't get codified in the LDC. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. Do I have a second? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion on the floor by Commissioner Coyle and a second by Commissioner Fiala. Any further discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hearing none, I'll call the question. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Any opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: We only have four people on the commission at this point in time. MS. FABACHER: All right. Next one is Page X of your summary sheet. It's Section 4.06.05, general landscaping requirements. This is really kind of a scrivener's error. When they wrote the last cycle, when they wrote the amendments for raw water wells, I think we had a -- county hired a consultant to write it. There was a typo and they wanted to space the palms around the structures 30 -- they meant to say 30 feet on center, but they said 30 inches on center. So-- COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion to approve. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second. Page 33 December 14, 2006 COMMISSIONER FIALA: That's a big one. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, we have a motion on the floor by Commissioner Coletta, and I believe I heard Commissioner Fiala come in with a second. COMMISSIONER FIALA: And you did, sir. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Is there any other discussion on this? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hearing none, I'll call the question. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. Opposed by like sign. (N 0 response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. MS. FABACHER: All right, Commissioners, we're on Page Y of the summary sheet. The first clarification item is Section 4.06.05, general landscaping requirements. It's Page 191 in your green book. And we gave Mike Sawyer the night off, but all he did was he moved -- what it says, he relocates the landscape requirements for natural and artificial water bodies to go with the rest of the stormwater facilities, all the water stuff within that chapter. So it was out of place, he moved it. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second. CHAIRMAN HALAS: We have a motion on the floor by Commissioner Coyle, seconded by Commissioner Fiala. Any further discussion? (N 0 response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hearing none, I'll call the question. All Page 34 December 14,2006 those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. Those not in favor by like sign. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimous. MS. FABACHER: Mr. Henning, did you vote on that one? COMMISSIONER HENNING: I made a motion -- I seconded a motion to approve all of them. I don't know why we're still here. MS. FABACHER: But Cherie' had put down 4-0. I just thought you did vote on that one. COMMISSIONER HENNING: I voted on all of them already. CHAIRMAN HALAS: I think that was in jest here. COMMISSIONER COYLE: No, I was dead serious. MS. FABACHER: Well, moving along pretty fast. Okay, so-- COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve the remainder of the Land Development Code changes for the cycle of 2006. CHAIRMAN HALAS: I think that we need to go through each and every one of these. We don't have that much longer to go, and -- COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's fine, Mr. Chairman. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Just two hours. MS. FABACHER: No, no, no, this is quick. CHAIRMAN HALAS: No, we'll be less than two hours. MS. FABACHER: This is quick. CHAIRMAN HALAS: I think we'll be out of here before-- slightly after 6:00. MS. FABACHER: Diane is giving me the signal, hurry up. On Page Y of your summary sheet, Page 193 in the green book, this is Sections 4.07.04, Section 5.06.02, Section 5.06.04, Section Page 35 December 14, 2006 5.06.06, Section 10.02.03. All of this to remove a reference to a unified sign plan, which is not something we do anymore. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, we have a motion on the floor by Commissioner Coyle, seconded by Commissioner Coletta. Any further discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hearing none, I'll call the question. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign. (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimous. MS. FABACHER: Okay, Commissioners, on Page Z of your summary sheet, on Page 201 in your green book -- COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion to approve. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Diana, you're doing a great job. CHAIRMAN HALAS: We have a motion on the floor by Commissioner Coletta, seconded by Commissioner Coy Ie. Any further discussion? (N 0 response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: All those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. Page 36 December 14,2006 COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: It was actually Commissioner Coletta who seconded it. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No, I motioned it. I don't care, whatever it is. I'll be first, second. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Whatever you have in the record. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Whatever you typed is fine. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hold on. Let's get it straight. (Whereupon, the court reporter read a portion of the record.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you very much for the correction. Commissioner Coletta made the motion, and it was seconded by Commissioner Henning. MS. FABACHER: All right, Commissioners, we're on Page Z of the summary sheet, the amendment right below the one we just voted on. This is Section 5.06.04, Page 203 in the green book, and it sets out standards for signage on multi-story buildings, and also restricts the distance that a sign may proj ect from a mansard roof facade, which used to be in the mansard roof definition. And so Diana wanted to put it in with the provisions -- the operational provisions and take it out of the definitions. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, we have a motion on the floor by Commissioner Coyle, seconded by Commissioner Fiala. Any further discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hearing none, all those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. Page 37 December 14, 2006 COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign. (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimously. MS. FABACHER: Okay, Commissioners, the next one is on Page AA of the summary sheets. Same section, 5.06.04, sign standards for specific situations. And it adds -- it's Page 207 in your green book. I'm trying to think, did we -- we changed it out in there, didn't we? MS. COMPAGNONE: The new green book has the corrected language. MS. FABACHER: Pardon me for a second. No, that's correct. Okay, thank you. At the last session, September 7th, you had kind of reorganized this for us, this amendment. It's a signage for public facilities, and there was a lot of discussion on it, so Diana is bringing back the language that you directed. And I don't know if you have questions on it or -- CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioners, do we have any questions on that signage issue? COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, I'll second that. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign. (No response.) Page 38 December 14,2006 CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries. MS. FABACHER: All right. Next amendment on sheet AA is another sign amendment, Section 5.06.04. Changes where we measure the elevation, the height of menu signs at drive-throughs. Instead of the adjacent street grade, we measure it right there next to the sign. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Motion to approve. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion on the floor by Commissioner Fiala. Do I have a second? COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Coletta seconded the motion. Any further discussion? (N 0 response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: All those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign. (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimous. MS. FABACHER: Thank you, Commissioners. All right, I move to Page BB in your summary sheet, Page 211 in the green book, Section 5.06.04, sign standards for specific situations. Change of citation for requirements for window signs at automobile stations. And if you have questions, I'm going to ask Diana to address them, because I don't remember this one at all. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second. CHAIRMAN HALAS: We have a motion on the floor by Page 39 December 14, 2006 Commissioner Coyle, seconded by Commissioner Henning. If there's no further questions, I'll call the question. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign. (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimously. Okay. MS. FABACHER: All right, sorry, right with you. Okay, next one is going to be on Page BB of the summary sheet, Page 213, Section 9.04.04, specific requirements for after-the-fact encroachments. I think you remember, I think it was the Douty (phonetic) variance that the county attorney's office was of the opinion that these encroachments didn't apply -- applied only -- or the deviations that you can give applied only to primary structures and not to accessory structures. MS. MURRA Y -ISTENES: Yeah, it was administrative variances was the word you were searching for. MS. FABACHER: Thanks, Susan. And another thing that we did was it put back some language that was omitted during re-codification, which says -- which language makes no sense without it. Let's see, where is it? COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second. MS. FABACHER: It just said you have to pick four out of these five criteria. You have to meet four out of these five. COMMISSIONER COYLE: I just thought you had fallen Page 40 December 14, 2006 asleep, that's all. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Coletta? COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, I just wanted to find out, what was one of the people from the Planning Commission that voted against it, do you know what the reason was? CHAIRMAN HALAS: Just one person, wasn't it? COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I know that, but it's a bit unusual. It was continuously 7-0, now this suddenly popped up. If you don't know, don't worry about it. Just trying to see what kind of objection, this seemed kind of benign to me. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, we got a-- MS. MURRAY-ISTENES: Sorry. I'm not sure there was even discussion. But do you recall, Catherine? MS. FABACHER: There might have been one person that wanted to make it less than the cri -- make it meet three out of five instead of four out of five but the other disagreed with making that change. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, motion on -- MS. FABACHER: Susan? MS. MURRA Y-ISTENES: Go ahead, I'm sorry. Yeah, I think you're referring to the boat dock ordinance, not administrative -- MS. FABACHER: No it was on this, too. Oh, you may be right. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, are you-- COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm satisfied. CHAIRMAN HALAS: You're comfortable. Motion on the floor by Commissioner Coyle, second by Commissioner Henning. No further discussion, all those if favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. Page 41 December 14,2006 COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign. (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries. MS. FABACHER: Okay, we are on Page CC of the summary sheet. Section 1.08.02. Dock facilities, Page 218 in the green book. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second. CHAIRMAN HALAS: No further discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion on the floor by Commissioner Henning, seconded by Commissioner Coyle. Hearing no further discussion, all those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign. (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimously. MS. FABACHER: Okay, we're on the last sheet of the summary sheets, DD. And-- MS. MURRA Y-ISTENES: I think Jeff was going to speak to that. MR. KLATZKOW: This was the -- the Planning Commission, or at least some of the commission members, had issues with these amendments. I spoke with Mr. Schmitt. My immediate reaction was simply let's just go back word for word comma, comma what we had before the old code and worry about any changes later. Page 42 December 14,2006 I then met with Susan earlier today and Ray and Catherine, and we were going through and it wasn't as simple as that. We changed a lot of different versions of the old code into the new code, including yard width and everything else. And it just got more and more complicated. And it was my advice just to pull it at this point in time, and so we can go back next time and get the full Planning Commission to take a good hard look at this issue and just get it right. I'd rather get it right than to get it wrong. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Move to continue. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Move to continue, did you say? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Um-hum. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay, second. MS. FABACHER: To the next cycle. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Right, to the next cycle. That's in your motion, right? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, there's a motion on the floor to continue this to the next cycle by Commissioner Henning and seconded by Commissioner Fiala. Hearing no further discussion, I'll call the question. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign. (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries unanimously. Okay, anything that we need to wrap up on this? Page 43 December 14,2006 MS. FABACHER: Well, there's one more amendment. And I apologize, Susan, you're right, this was the one with the three out of five. . Last one is Section 5.03.06(G). Dock facilities on Page 223. And that was the one where it had the phrase where I told you it needed to be so many criteria that was left out in re-codification. So that's the same deal. In order for the planning commission to approve the boat dock extension, it must determine at least four of the five primary criteria should be met. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Move to approve. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, we have a motion on the floor by Commissioner Henning, second by Commissioner Coyle. Any further discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Hearing none, I'll call the question. All those if favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed by like sign. (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Motion carries. Thank you very much, Commissioners. I know that we all want to get out of here, but I just felt that we want to make sure that everything was put on the record and it was straightforward. And if we don't meet again, I want to wish each and every one of you and all of staff a happy holiday and happy New Year's. COMMISSIONER COYLE: We will be meeting again on Monday. Page 44 December 14,2006 CHAIRMAN HALAS: Well, we're not going to be meeting in this office, or here on the dais, but I know we'll be meeting with the City Council, so -- COMMISSIONER HENNING: And merry Christmas, right? COMMISSIONER FIALA: And merry Christmas. CHAIRMAN HALAS: And merry Christmas. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Merry Christmas. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Happy New Year. MS. FABACHER: Commissioner, if I could make one observation. These two books, this one's easier to change, this one isn't. Look at the size. CHAIRMAN HALAS: I understand. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Now why is that? CHAIRMAN HALAS: If there's no further discussion, we are adjourned. Page 45 December 14, 2006 ***** There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 6:05 p.m. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL --/~ F~~an ATTEST: These minutes approved by the Board on \ -~ - 0'0 D ~ as presented ~ or as corrected , TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT REPORTING SERVICE, INC. BY CHERIE' NOTTINGHAM. Page 46