BCC Minutes 06/02/2020 S (Covid-19)June 2, 2020
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TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, June 2, 2020
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in SPECIAL
SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples,
Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Burt L. Saunders
Andy Solis
William L. McDaniel, Jr.
Donna Fiala
Penny Taylor
ALSO PRESENT:
Leo Ochs, County Manager
Nick Casalanguida, Deputy County Manager
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Crystal K. Kinzel, Clerk of the Circuit Court & Comptroller
Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations
June 2, 2020
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CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Ladies and gentlemen, the meeting
of the County Commission will please come to order.
As has been on our tradition during this pandemic, we've had
Commissioner McDaniel lead us in an invocation and pledge, and
we'll continue with that this morning, please.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Good morning, everybody. If
you'd please bow your head.
Heavenly Father, we want to thank you for the many blessings
that you bestow upon us. Father, there's a lot of things going on in
this world. Please, with your guidance, help us find the good in our
society. Help us through these trying times with our community.
Help us to remember, Father, on a regular -- on a regular basis you
bless us. Help us to be grateful for those blessings.
Father, as always, keep our first responders, our nurses, and doctors
in your constant care.
In thy holy name I pray. Amen.
With me, ladies and gentlemen.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. And I do see a few
people in the audience wearing a mask, and thank you for doing that.
The masks are to protect not only yourselves but people you come in
contact with. So I tend to wear my mask wherever I enter a building,
and I think it's just a safe thing to do. So I want to continue to
encourage all of you in the public that may be listening that wearing
masks in these times is the responsible thing to do.
So, Mr. Manager?
MR. OCHS: Good morning, Mr. Chairman and Commissioners.
We're going to begin staff presentation today to cover two items that
the Board asked us to address this morning. The first is the question
of re-opening of the Collier County beaches and, secondly, we'll
address the recommendation from the staff to conduct a limit ed 4th of
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July celebration at your new Paradise Coast Sports and Special
Events Complex.
So I'd ask Mr. Carnell, your Public Services Department Head,
to begin the presentation.
Steve?
MR. CARNELL: Good morning, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good morning.
MR. CARNELL: Steve Carnell, Public Services Department
Head.
This is just to briefly update you on where we are regarding
county beaches and plans moving forward.
I'm not getting cooperation here, Troy.
As you all know, we are operating on weekend beach hours right
now. Here we go. And back on May 12th you adopted an executive
order for limited weekend hours and limited parking access to
county -- Collier County residents, those with Collier County/City of
Naples beach parking permits.
We've now gone through three weekends under that executive
order and have found it to be very manageable in terms of traffic on
the beaches. And, again, the cooperation continues to be at a very
high level from our citizens and visitors.
Just quickly to update you, the Miami-Dade County and
Broward, we've had quite a bit of discussions about their beaches. I'll
start with Broward. Their beaches opened last Tuesday. And this is
information I've gotten from their parks and recreation director.
They re-opened last Tuesday under several restrictions. On
Friday several of their -- many of those restrictions were peeled back.
And, specifically, now, if you go to the beach in Broward County,
you can bring your umbrella, your coolers, your chairs, and you're
allowed to sunbathe, picnic, sit on the beach. All those things were
very limited when they initially opened. They've now pulled those
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restrictions off.
Organized sports are still not permitted. And, of course, they're
adhering to social distancing and group size limits of 10.
The county is under a nighttime curfew as a result of the social unrest
over the weekend, and they've not prescribed an end date. I think it's
going to be visited at the end of the week. But it has no impact on
daytime beach operation hours. The beaches are open in Broward
during daytime hours.
Miami-Dade was -- as you-all know, were planning to re-open
their beaches yesterday and postponed that because of the social
unrest, and they have a curfew as well very similar to Broward's with
one big distinction. They have closed -- they have kept daytime
hours closed. So the beaches remain closed in Miami-Dade. And
from what I heard from what the Mayor was saying, it's a staffing
issue at this point in terms of being able to support and protect the
beaches as well as tend to everything else they have to tend to with
regard to the curfew at this time.
So Miami-Dade has not reopened. They look -- it appears
they're going to revisit it toward the end of the week in terms of
where they go with the curfew and, of course, the beaches. So that's
where those two counties are at present.
So we'll return to the three previous thoughts that we had given
you at the last board meeting as to what we see are the basic options
going forward. Leave the current executive order -- and I'm referring
to the Collier County executive order that you placed -- in place at
least through June 9th, June 9th being next Tuesday's Board of
County Commissioners' meeting, or consider returning to regular
hours for the coming weekend starting this coming weekend, and
then -- or a third option would be to direct the County Manager to
restore full weekend hours after the East Coast beaches are fully
open.
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So with that, I'll answer any questions.
MR. OCHS: Commissioners, I will say that the staff
recommendation remains as it was the last time we talked about this,
and that is that we believe we're ready to re-open the beaches to
regular hours and activities as well as the parking facilities.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Well, I'll open it up to
discussion from the Board.
Just to remind the audience, the reason that we scheduled this
meeting was the anticipation that Miami would be opening up on
June 1st, and we didn't want to delay anything in Collier County any
longer than necessary, and so we decided to schedule this meeting to
discuss what we thought would be different circumstances.
Do you want to hear from the audience first before Commission
comments?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah, let's do it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Do we have any
registered speakers? Just -- Commissioner Solis?
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I was wondering, the Department of
Health, are we going to get a ny kind of update from --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We're going to get, I think, a --
MR. OCHS: No, sir. We can do that on the 9th. I was going to
do that next Tuesday as part of your regular agenda. But when the
Board published this meeting, they specifically said they wanted to
talk about only two items, the beaches and the 4th of July.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It looks like you've got a report,
though, so you can give us some information on that as we go
through this.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Okay.
MR. MILLER: We had one preregistered remote public
speaker. They have not joined the meeting yet. I don't have any
speaker slips from anyone here in the room. I will keep you posted if
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they do join.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner
McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Let's move this right along.
I'll make a motion that we abide by staff's recommendations.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Commissioner Solis?
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Well, the reason I was hoping to
hear from the Department of Health today was -- I mean, it all relates
to public safety. And looking at the -- at the last report, I mean, we
appear to have more cases in the hospital than we have ever had; 81
as of yesterday. And the -- so, I mean, I was hoping to get some
clarity as to what -- the feeling of the Department of Health in terms
of the numbers where we're going up or down in terms of the gating
criteria, so that was my hope.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. And just -- I also spoke with
Dr. Antonucci at Lee Health, and they were having the same
experience, an uptick in hospitalizations. But in both systems there
was no indication of a lack of resources, just that there's an uptick in
cases.
Commissioner McDaniel, you had a --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And, Commissioner
Solis, I get reports directly from NCH and Physicians Regional and
Lee Health monitoring the asset basis that are there, and the Health
Department is lagging with their data. Oftentimes -- and I found it to
be a cumulative total with regard to the hospitalizations not
accounting for those that have recovered and/or those that have been
discharged from the hospital.
So I don't know where you got that report that says there are 81.
Did it come from --
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: It's the one that we get from the
State.
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. That's from the
Health Department.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I mean, I understand what you're
saying, and I understand that --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm just sharing -- I'm not
arguing with you. I'm just sharing that there are --
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I understand. I mean --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We've got a court reporter trying to
take this down, so we're going to sort of try to do this one at a time.
So, Commissioner McDaniel, you've completed your --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I've completed my comments.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Solis.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I mean, I understand. We can -- but
we have experts, and we're supposed to -- we pay these people to tell
us and give us the data as it's supposed to be given to us.
So, again, I'm not going to -- I'm not an expert, and I'm not
going to pretend to come up with my own data and decide what it
means, because I'm not an expert in public health.
So, you know, I'm just going to note for the record that based
upon what we get from the Department of Health, that's what we're
being told. So I was hoping to hear a little more because I'm -- you
know, my concern is the overall public health of the county and being
as cautious as we can.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. I was just wondering if
possibly that increased figure has anything to do with the Immokalee
people. They found, you know, so many over there, and they had to
take them all to hospitals. And so -- and I guess they would get into
Lee as well as Collier. So that might be the real reason behind that
increase.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I think you're probably right about
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that. That probably is a significant part of it.
Commissioner Taylor.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Well, I think the reason that
we're concerned is basically -- or my concern has always been the
proximity of Miami-Dade and Broward to our beaches. And, clearly,
we've run that test and found out it's not that far away. And if they're
keeping their breaches closed in Miami-Dade, I think it's prudent to
keep our beaches closed and look at it again June the 9th. So I know
there's a motion on the table. I'm not sure there's a second.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I've not asked for a second
yet, so...
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay. I'm not going to make a
motion, but I think everyone knows what my motion's going to be.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, let's start off and see if
there's a second to Commissioner McDaniel's motion, which is to
accept the staff report to go back to normal operations at our beaches.
Is there a second to that motion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If not, I'll make a second to that
motion, and I'll explain my rationale when we get to that.
Commissioner Solis, I see you're lit up again.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: My sign -- my number over here
looks like a --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yeah, mine looks like fireworks.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: -- flashing warning sign. I think
we're having a --
MR. MILLER: Let me reboot the system.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I was trying to turn it off.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, that was not an invitation to
speak if you didn't want to. I just recognized that your light was on.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Here it is.
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COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: That's much better. It's like
fireworks.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Anybody else? Commissioner
McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I would like to reiterate, I
hope you, Commissioner Solis, were not interpreting anything I was
saying as aggressive or that I care any less than you with regard to
our community and our health circumstances.
By no means am I an expert either. I just have information that
is different from that that I see from the State. I look at the
information from the State. I meant no -- I meant nothing negative
with regard to that.
Commissioner Fiala, and anybody who's looking, has been
seeing what's been going on in Immokalee. We have been
appropriating -- I had a very nice conversation with Stephanie Vick
yesterday. We've been appropriating assets to our community in
Immokalee. We've been increasing tests.
My messaging -- not "my." The messaging has been going out.
I have promised for months no one would be deported if they took a
test. No one would be denied care if they -- irrespective of their
capacity to pay. And I think that message -- those messages are
finally transitioning through the community and folks are actually
utilizing the services and the assets that our facilities has.
I've actually even -- when I spoke with Stephanie
yesterday -- because Immokalee doesn't have a hospital, and it is
equidistant between Fort Myers and Naples, I've brought in the Lee
Health asset facility with regard to the hospital, ICU beds, ventilators,
and the like because, equidistant, folks can come from Immokalee to
Fort Myers or Naples.
So there potentially is an increase in people seeking assistance in
hospitalization just because of that messaging that our staff -- that our
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partners in Immokalee, the coalition of Immokalee workers,
Guadalupe, RCMA, Unmet Needs Coalition, that messaging is
continuously going on. So I'm -- I do agree with what you're talking
about there, so...
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Solis.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: No, no. And, Commissioner
McDaniel, I understand. I didn't -- I wasn't taking that as any kind of
offense. I understand what you're saying. I just personally feel that,
you know, we have to rely on our experts. They're our experts.
I will point out another issue that I find alarming in the report
that we got, which is one of the key factors I think we're always told
to look at is the number per hundred thousand residents. We are now
second with 430 per hundred thousand. We're ahead of Palm Beach
and Broward. I find that troubling.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Hospitalizations?
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: For cases per hundred thousand.
And, you know, again, these are the numbers we're given. These are
the numbers I feel obligated to look at. So I think -- I think caution,
so...
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm going to explain why I
seconded the motion, and then I'll call Mr. McDaniel again.
The economy's opening up. I'm not sure if we're getting into
Phase 2 or how that's all working at the state level but, clearly,
everything is opening up, and there's no question that we're going to
get an uptick in cases. You know, we've typically had 40 or 50
hospitalizations at one time. That's ticked up to about 80, I think, is
the current number. And there's no surprise.
If we decide we're going to keep our beaches closed until there's
no uptick in cases and there's no uptick in hospitalizations, we could
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keep our beaches closed for a long time. And so I think it's time now
to recognize that the economy's open.
I went to Tigertail Beach on Sunday. I got there at 3:30. I just
wanted to see what was happening. There were one or two cars in
front of me that were turned around. County staff was very, very
polite letting people know that the beaches were closed.
I went over to Caxambas. That area was -- the parking lot was
completely filled, but people were exercising social distancing to
some extent. But there were a lot of families out there jet skiing and
all of those things that you do at Caxambas.
I went over to Lely Barefoot Beach in the -- after 5:00 on
Sunday, and I think on the whole beach there were probably 10
people. The place was completely deserted.
And I just -- I've been down to the Naples Beach during the
hours when the beaches were closed and also in the hours when the
beaches were open. I just think it's time to recognize that we're
actually depriving our citizens of the ability to spend time at the
beach during the week on Saturdays and Sundays. And we're not
going to stop the uptick in cases by keeping our beaches closed.
That's going to continue. I think it's going to continue to get worse
just because people are ignoring the social distancing.
We saw that in downtown Naples. I know the Sheriff is going to
give us a report on the demonstrations last night. But I was down
there for a while; couldn't get over to Fifth Avenue because
everything was blocked off, but I was watching people, and no social
distancing. That's all over the country.
And I just think it's time for us to recognize that we're not going
to stop or slow down the spread of COVID by keeping our beaches
closed on the weekend. That's my rationale for seconding the
motion.
Commissioner McDaniel, then Solis.
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COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I just would like to ask
Commissioner Solis, the representation of 300- and-some-odd per
hundred thousand population; is that what you --
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Four hundred thirty.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You are aware that that is a
cumulative total since the beginning of this outbreak, that -- of all of
the people that have been tested, that is a cumulative total, and that it
is statistically impossible for 100 percent of those people to continue
to remain infected?
As Commissioner Solis just said -- or, excuse me -- Solis.
Commissioner Saunders just said, there has never been an effort to
stop the virus. It has always been slow the spread, slow the spread,
allow our assets, our hospital assets to be enhanced. We were direly
deficient in this country. Those predictive models that you and I
were looking at back in March rattled even me; 83,000 ICU beds shy
in these United States; 7- to 9,000 people a day expiring. Certainly
reason to take pause.
But the data that we're looking at is a cumulative amount of
people who have tested positive with regard to this. And then,
necessarily, they have never -- and Stephanie and I talked about this
yesterday. They have not ever removed a person off of the list who,
statistically, has to have recovered.
We know for a fact that the virus only incubates for two, maybe
three weeks. So with that 1,500, you really only need to go back to
the first part on March on a daily base. I actually asked her about that
in Immokalee yesterday simply because in Immokalee we're up to
588-some-odd cases as of this morning. But, again, that's a
cumulative total for our ZIP code.
And if I don't -- if we don't have accurate information, it's
difficult to make these decisions with regard to opening up or not
opening, managing our asset basis so that we have, necessarily, the
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proper care afforded for our community.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Solis.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Well, I understand what you're
saying, but you are -- you're wanting me to say that the
information -- or to conclude that the information that we're getting
from the Department of Health, which is the information we're told
by the Governor's Office down to look at is -- one, it's not accurate
and, two, we should disregard it. I'm just -- I'm not willing to do that
because I'm not an expert. I'm not an expert enough to say whether
or not we should disregard it and whether or not -- statistically, what
it means.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let's --
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: So I understand what you're saying,
but these are the numbers. I'm just expressing my view on my role as
one of five votes. I have to base that upon the information I'm given
by our experts.
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- and Andy's not going to
convince you, so --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I'm not trying to convince you
of anything. I don't want to point at you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I don't want you to put words
in my mouth. I never asked you to do anything other than accept my
statement. I didn't tell you to disregard. I didn't tell you to expect
them to be accurate. I just asked you to question the data that you're
looking at.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's move on. The
registered speaker has not --
MR. MILLER: No.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm not going to allow the
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dialogue. I don't know if anybody in the audience wants to chime in
at this point. I'll recognize you if you want to.
We have one person in the back. If you'll come forward and fill
out a speaker card, you'll have three minutes. We don't general do
that, but there's been a lot of dialogue, and I thought I'd give you the
opportunity.
And, Mr. Gonzalez, we recognize -- if you'd step back a little
bit, because we want to keep everybody distant.
MR. GONZALEZ: Thank you very much. I appreciate your
time this morning.
MR. OCHS: Sir, excuse me. Pull that a little closer to you.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: If you'd state your name for the
record as well.
MR. GONZALEZ: Joseph Gonzalez; Joe Gonzalez.
I appreciate the time this morning and appreciate everybody's
involvement in our county and the city.
I am a resident of North Naples. Moved down to Naples a
couple of years ago. Just absolutely love this area. I moved down
here because of some personal beliefs, and I feel like this response
has been -- in terms of the pandemic has been overreaching on the
part of government. And I believe that while we may not have the
expertise, the data really doesn't show that there's any particular
emergency that exists anywhere. You're talking about
.0 -- .004 percent cumulative population. We talk about 400 out of
100,000 people.
And I believe that your job as County Commissioners is really
to look at the ability to write constitutional laws versus
unconstitutional laws. And I think the entirety of business closures,
taking of private property, closing the beaches down, et cetera, really
could amount to unconstitutional and government overreach.
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In light of last night's events and last week, you know -- and,
again, thank you to all the police officers and sheriffs who have kept
order, because I'm not for violence or protests -- violent protests, but
I am for peaceful protests, of course.
And I think if this goes further, then you're looking at further
lockdowns of businesses and people and further infringement upon
our rights.
So I would, on behalf of people who are constitutional and law
abiders, ask that you-all consider opening all of Collier County,
including beaches and businesses, and consider yourselves
personally -- if something were to happen and somebody were to
have a lawsuit against you personally for losses that they may have
incurred through this, are you prepared to defend yourselves
personally for unconstitutional laws?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let me make one thing perfectly
clear to the public. We are not in control in any way in dealing with
our businesses. The only control we have is over our county
facilities. The Governor is in charge of opening or closing
businesses. Just -- I don't want a response from you. I'm just letting
you know that that's not our jurisdiction. Before we take a
vote -- thank you, sir.
MR. GONZALEZ: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Before we take a vote, Colonel
Bloom, Sheriff Rambosk, I don't know if you want to weigh in on the
beach issue. You've told us in the past that whatever we do, you have
the manpower/womanpower to enforce it and that you would be able
to do so.
Sheriff Rambosk, you've heard the motion. Are you prepared to
help with social distancing if we open the beaches?
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Yes. Kevin Rambosk, Collier County
Sheriff.
June 2, 2020
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I had some data and stats for the last three weekends. I won't go
through all of that. I will tell you that most beach operations have
run smoothly. The county staff, as well as deputies, have done a
great job.
We have provided information even to the point of display
boards for visitors coming from other communities as to what's open,
what's not. We've got pamphlets that are handed out to people as
they go to the beach that helps to support social distancing that is
needed. We've had one incident of a person who wanted to make
their feelings known about the closures. But other than that,
operations have been good and smooth with necessary social
distancing. We have the effective staff to effectively take care of
whatever you choose, whether it's fully open and/or remain the way
we are.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you. And
appreciate you being here for a discussion in a few moments about
last night's activities dealing with some demonstrations.
All right. We have a motion and a second. The motion -- and
I'll restate the motion -- is to accept the staff recommendation to open
up our county facilities to normal -- our county beach facilities to
normal operations. We have a motion and second. I'll call for the
vote. All in favor, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed, say no.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: (No verbal response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes, I believe, 4-1; is that
correct? There was only one vote against that.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No. Commissioner Taylor.
June 2, 2020
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CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Did you vote against that?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: (Nods head.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'm sorry. Okay. So the vote was
3-2. Commissioner Taylor and Commissioner Solis voting no.
MR. OCHS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And what I'd like to do, Mr. Ochs,
is on our meeting on June 9th -- this will be the first weekend we've
had our beaches open. I'd like a report on those activities. If you're
doing some drones -- I know the Sheriff does that on a regular basis.
You know, sometime around 4:00 -- apparently that's the busiest time
between 3:00 and 4:00 -- let's see what our beaches look like. If we
can -- we can go back on that if we need to.
All right. Let's move on.
Mr. Ochs?
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir.
Mr. Chairman, now we move to a discussion of staff
recommendation to conduct the limited 4th of July celebration at the
Paradise Coast Sports and Special Events Complex.
Marissa Fahey, your new general operations manager at the
complex, will make the presentation.
Marissa?
MS. FAHEY: Good morning, Commissioners. For the record,
Marissa Fahey, Regional Manager of Paradise Coast Sports Complex.
I'd like to take a moment to introduce Amy Fouty, general manager
of the Paradise Coast Sports Complex with Sports Force.
So we are presenting today to make the recommendation to
move forward with a limited 4th of July celebration, and we will go
over some of the details of the planning process.
Okay. So the welcome bash fireworks event is scheduled to
occur Saturday, July 4th, from 4:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. We are
making the recommendation to move forward because we believe
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that we have the ability to control capacity and manage the event
given the space and the location that we have at the complex.
We have worked alongside Manhattan Construction, Collier
County Sheriff's Office, Risk Management, EMS, and Greate r Naples
Fire District to ensure safety throughout the entirety of the event.
Collier County Sheriff's Office has also offered to take the lead as it
relates to emergency services.
We will also go through some of the operational protocols with
the event.
So to give you some background, we are moving the fireworks
from Sugden Regional Park to Paradise Coast Sports Complex. We
have worked with Greater Naples Fire District to establish safe
fallout zones in mortar sizes for a 15- to 20-minute fireworks show.
So we are currently using CDC, state, and local
recommendations as it relates to the capacity of the event. So as you
can see here, we've allowed for about 200 square feet per individual
or group of 10 people that show up to the event. So we've take n the
areas that we intend to utilize for seating and viewing, and we've
divided that by the 200-square-foot number, giving us about 1,800
attendees. Typically we could fit 3,000 attendees in those spaces.
And just to give you some background, at Sugden they typically
get anywhere from 4,000 to 5,000 people at the event. So we really
are trying to be conservative in the number of attendees that we're
allowing in the sense that we have the space to allow for social
distancing.
So if you look at the picture, we have five areas that we intend
to use for seating. We've got the great lawn, Field 3, and Field 4,
which will be opened initially. Once these areas get full to capacity,
we will then open Fields 1 and 2 for viewing as well.
If you look at the north side of the complex, so up here, we've
got reserved parking, fire, and EMS stations, and a first aid tent with
June 2, 2020
Page 19
a separate access point for the folks on the north end.
Coming down to the south end of the complex, we've got two
public access points into the facility itself, public parking, and the
Collier County Sheriff's Office command center.
The last thing I want to note on this slide is that while we have
two entrances, one on the north side and one on the south side, the
north entrance will be closed to the public, and all patrons will be
directed to the south access point here, and this will be the only entry
and exit for the event. So with that, we believe that that's key in
controlling the capacity and managing the event.
I'd like to hand over the conversation to Amy Fouty who will
talk a little bit more about the operational details.
MS. FOUTY: Good morning, Commissioners. For the record,
my name is Amy Fouty. I'm the General Manager at the new
Paradise Coast Sports Complex.
As you can see, with our initial access point, we will check in all
attendees with their registration at this point. One registration per
car.
Moving on to the next slide, taking a look at our registration
process. We will ask people to go to our website, access the
registration page, provide their name and email. They will then
receive a confirmation that they can present at that initial check -in
point for access.
Registration will open June 5th at 5:00 p.m. We'll also provide
information to Collier County's information line as well as Sugden
for those who may call and ask how to register for the event and
easily direct them with the actual instructions so that they can
register.
SFI, CVB, and Collier County Parks will support the marketing
efforts for this -- through social media for the event as well as we are
looking into broadcasting this live on two different platforms.
June 2, 2020
Page 20
We have a different view here of the complex. Along with
using the CDC guidelines that Marissa spoke of earlier, the nu mber
of attendees per area, you see the -- on the right, the initial access
points into the complex, and the pink stars are the field marshals who
will be keeping count of these areas and directing people to open
areas and open spaces.
With that, I'd like to conclude and recommend that we move
forward with this limited 4th of July celebration at PCSC and ask if
you have any questions.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Are there any questions?
Do we have any registered speakers?
MR. MILLER: I do not, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just one quick question. If
you could just -- good morning, Marissa.
MS. FAHEY: Good morning.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just so you know, I've known
her forever. She used to work at North Collier rec center back when I
coached basketball.
MS. FAHEY: What a pleasure.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Mr. Carnell's son was one of
my kids back on the basketball team back in the day. So I've been
giving her the business for quite some time. So if you see me smile
at her, it's with love.
How are we going to manage the preregistration of letting folks
in and get to capacity? If you could reiterate that and/or explain it
again, please.
MS. FAHEY: Sure. I'm going to defer to Amy on this one for
the operational side.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay.
MS. FOUTY: So people will receive their registration through
June 2, 2020
Page 21
email, so you can present that at the initial check-in point.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: They have to present that in
order to get in?
MS. FOUTY: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: They can't just show up?
MS. FOUTY: They cannot just show up. So everyone will have
the preregistration. We will keep a list -- because this is a basic
registration. We will keep a list, check people off. The first
individual who comes to the access point, we check that name off.
Any further individuals that might show up with that same
registration will not be allowed access.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And when are you going to
open up the registration?
MS. FOUTY: We are planning at this point to open up
registration this coming Friday at 5:00 p.m. We wanted a couple
days just to make sure we incorporated any information from this
meeting as directed.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. That's all the questions
I have.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Solis?
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Just -- can you explain how you're
going to manage the social distancing and all of that. I mean, so
people will park in those designated areas, and then they're going to
be able to sit on the fields, I'm assuming. Are they bringing their
own chairs? Is that -- and then is it going to be marked off with these
200-square-foot areas so that people know what the distances are?
MS. FOUTY: So to answer your question, sir, we have opened
two other SFI facilities, and we are finding that people are naturally
social distancing their groups through just seating themselves in
areas. What we want -- what we would like to do with the help of the
sheriffs is just use our numbers, click people into areas so we know
June 2, 2020
Page 22
what the count is, and move people along. If people feel
uncomfortable, we leave it up to them to move on or sit in a different
area.
But our recommendations are actually quite a bit larger, and our
numbers are very small compared to what we could have in the
complex.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: On this issue, I'm not sure how I'm
going to vote. I know we're going to be doing that here in just a
minute. I'm kind of torn. You have beaches. And I consider having
beaches open as being something that's necessary. You have many,
many families that need that outlet. And so I consider that to be a
very important and necessary county operation at this point.
This isn't necessary. There's no need to have these fireworks.
Obviously, we all want to celebrate the 4th of July, and we want to
celebrate the opening of this park, but it's not something that's
important or needed.
So my voting to open the beaches, if I do vote against this, I'm
not being inconsistent. My rationale is that beaches are critically
important for families to get out to, our parks are, but a fireworks
display is not. We have a 15- to 20-minute display. That's a $25,000
expenditure for that plus whatever cost would be associated with staff
time and all of that that's necessary for that. So maybe that number i s
three or four times greater than the 25,000.
And I'm not so sure that we should be making that expenditure,
though that's not a compelling issue. But we're putting our staff at
risk. We're putting the public at risk for a function that's just not
necessary. And that's -- so I'm kind of torn on this.
I'd like to hear more from the Commission as well. And I know
we don't have any registered speakers, but my inclination is not to
support going forward with this just because I don't think we need to.
June 2, 2020
Page 23
I do believe that all communities are canceling their fireworks
display. Now, Naples is different because you wind up with 20- or
30,000 or more people on the beaches. Totally uncontrollable.
Marco Island, I think, would probably be the same thing. We do
have a situation where we can control access, but I'm just not sure
that we should be doing that just merely because we can.
Commissioner Taylor.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Thank you very much.
We really didn't close our beaches. Our beaches were open all
week long, just different hours on the weekends. We never closed
them shut except at one point.
I believe that our public needs this celebration. I don't think that
it would be dangerous if people use social distancing. I think our
staff would be adequately protected with masks and, frankly, that's
what they -- apparently, I'm understanding Broward County you don't
leave the house without a mask on today, night or day.
I think it's -- it's what we need. It's been a tough row for
everybody, for this whole nation, for the world. And to be able to
celebrate this safely, with order, with understanding how we can
control this, I don't see a downside. So at this point, I'm not
sure -- when it's time I'd like to make a motion that we continue with
the 4th of July celebration at the Sports Park.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Are you going to accept her
motion? Because I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: She didn't make a motion. She
said when it's time, she can make the motion.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Well, I'll make a motion,
then -- I guess it's time, and I'll make that motion.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So we have a motion and second.
June 2, 2020
Page 24
Commissioner Solis.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I do have discussion.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh, I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's okay. It's just, I like
what she had to say, I like the motion, and I would second it for
discussion purposes.
And I understand the consternation. I'm having a difficult time,
if anybody hasn't seen that, in this essential /nonessential
activities/businesses. I'm having a difficult time in not affording the
population the credence of intelligent action with regard to how they
do and what they do. I think the education has been phenomenal by
our Health Department with regard to proper activities: Wear a
mask, don't wear a mask; social distancing, don't social distancing.
And I would like to afford that credence to our population.
I think our staff has done a wonderful job with regard to the
preregistration processes. I think that the social distancing aspects of
an area that they've appropriated is more than sufficient to allow us to
do this. I think also, personally, if you want to flip a coin on
essential/nonessential, this is the 4th of July. I don't know what more
you need to say.
So I'm in absolute support of going forward with this as staff has
recommended.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Solis.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Is there going to be anything else
that's going on there in terms of concessions and things, or is it just
the fireworks show and that's it? A 15, 20-minute fireworks show,
and that's it.
MS. FOUTY: We'll have a live DJ playing music throughout
the afternoon. People are allowed to bring their lawn chairs. If they
would choose to bring a Frisbee or something to have a little bit of
time in the park --
June 2, 2020
Page 25
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Okay.
MS. FOUTY: -- that's acceptable. We will follow food -- we
will be selling food.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Okay.
MS. FOUTY: We will follow all CDC guidelines, state and
local guidelines at that time for the distribution of food and beverage.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Okay. So -- okay. So this is -- that
was helpful.
So concessions will be open, and the gate opens when? I mean,
I'm just trying to get an idea of how long an event this is. Because
for a 15-minute fireworks show, I mean, it's -- that's not that much
time if it's just the fireworks show. But I'm trying to get a sense of --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: The gate opens at 4:00.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: At 4:00. And sundown is going to
be around, what 7:00?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Sunset's about 8:15, 8:20.
MR. OCHS: The show won't be till probably 9:00, the
fireworks show.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Say that again, please.
MR. OCHS: The actual fireworks would begin about 9:00 p.m.
MS. FOUTY: That is correct, between 8:30 and 9:00 p.m.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: And what is it going to be? Food
trucks? I'm just trying to get an idea of what's going to go on.
MS. FOUTY: Absolutely. We are looking at having some food
trucks available. Our market will be open. The bar area will be
open. We'll also be -- you know, we will also be selling some 4th of
July items for the kids, some giveaways as well for the kids, and just
providing a space and an opportunity for people to get out and gather
safely.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Okay. So, essentially, the park's
going to be open. It's not just the fireworks show. The park will be
June 2, 2020
Page 26
open?
MS. FOUTY: Correct.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. Thank you.
So how many people do you think you can handle at this park
comfortably, or even not comfortably?
MS. FAHEY: Yeah. I think we can just refer back to the 3,000
number, at least within the areas that we're utilizing.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Three thousand you think can get
into this park, right?
MS. FAHEY: For the area that we're utilizing for the seating
and the viewing, yeah. We're very comfortable with that number.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. Now, do we have any other
parks that will be open, not only the county, but maybe the city's also,
other parks with any fireworks, or is this it?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: The city's -- the city's going to
make a decision tomorrow about the fireworks, but given what
happened at the beach, I doubt that they're going to -- I doubt that
they're going to open for the fireworks.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I see. Okay. Because what I -- I
follow those fireworks, and I love them. But 3,000 seems to be a
very small number compared to how many people usually want to go.
And I'm just wondering, what do we do with all of the rest of the
people that can't get in?
MS. FAHEY: Yeah. So we will also be offering it live online.
So if they don't get the registered ticket, they c an watch it online as
well. We do want to keep the capacity at 1,800, though, for social
distancing.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And will they be using the great
lawn to set their chairs up as well as the stadium chairs?
June 2, 2020
Page 27
MS. FAHEY: Yep, we have the great lawn. They can bring
their own chairs or blankets, and then we will also utilize Fields 3, 4,
1, and 2 for viewing.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I hope 3,000 isn't a -- too small of a
number.
MR. OCHS: Commissioners, it's not going to be 3,000.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Eighteen hundred is the --
MR. OCHS: Eighteen hundred because of the social distancing
requirement.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, okay.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And that's why I lit up.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I just wanted to make that
point. The capacity per the square feet and staff's designation of
proper social distancing space is a maximum of 3,000. They're
actually going below that, if I interpreted what was said correctly, at
1,800 and requiring a preregistration, so...
COMMISSIONER FIALA: We're going to have some people
that are pretty upset that they don't get to see fireworks. That's going
to be tough.
Okay. Thank you. I just wanted to ask those questions.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Again, do we have
any -- we have no registered speakers? Again, anyone in the
audience at this point?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. All right. We have a
motion and a second.
I find myself in that same position I was just a few minutes ago.
I'm not sure how to vote on this thing. If you could flip it -- I think
I'm going to -- you know, again, I'm concerned about the county
setting the right image.
June 2, 2020
Page 28
I do want to ask you a question, because you said something that
struck me as maybe not completely accurate, and you said that the
bar area's going to be open. Now, when you say that, that sounds like
we're selling alcoholic beverages and there's a bar there. Bars are not
open, so I'm not sure what you meant by the bar area would be open.
MS. FOUTY: If bars are not open at that particular time, we
will just be selling water and soda out of that space.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. All right.
All right. We have a motion and a second. All in favor, signify
by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
I believe that was a 2-3 vote, if I'm not mistaken. Commissioner
Solis, Fiala, and myself voted in the negative; is that correct?
(No verbal response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I'm going to -- you
know, my explanation is, as I said, I think that we have to set the
right example. We don't want large crowds, and this is not -- in my
view is not necessary, but I was also concerned about the
expenditure, which leads me to -- the reason I mentioned that, Mr.
Ochs, is at our next meeting I think the Board needs some analysis as
to where things seem to be hitting with our sales tax collections, our
tourists tax collections.
I know that there's going to be a great reduction, and we're going
to -- I think we're going to need to start making sure we're not
spending money that we don't need to spend going forward. So
just -- that's why I mentioned that.
June 2, 2020
Page 29
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir. As you all know, you have your annual
budget workshop here in about two weeks, and we're going to --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay.
MR. OCHS: -- spend quite a bit of time briefing the Board on
all those things at that point, if that's okay, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, sir. That would be fine.
Thank you very much. Sorry for the disappointment.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Mr. Chair?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Solis.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Can I just say something, too?
And I agree with our Chairman's eloquent words there. I mean,
I -- and, you know, it is heartbreaking, because I think this facility's
going to be fantastic. I mean, it is going to be just a one -of-a-kind
thing, and I really want to celebrate it, and I would just suggest that,
you know, when we have more certainty with the future and we know
more definitively that we're out of the woods, so to speak, that we do
have a celebration -- given our fiscal constraints at the time, that we
do have a -- we celebrate this place, because it's fantastic, and it's
going to be a real -- it is already, I think, going to be an asset to the
county and all the residents. So I just wanted to say that, because
I -- I just can't support it either.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have a thought, and it's just
for consideration. I can understand, as I said earlier, the concern and
consternation with the gathering at all, but we have succe ssfully, at
our Collier County Fairgrounds, oversight by our Sheriff's
Department, allowed for church services within people's cars.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Oh --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah, and they actually have
had drive-in movies at the fairgrounds, and they've gone really, really
well, short of a few people getting out and praising our Lord by their
June 2, 2020
Page 30
car. They didn't go too far. But they stayed in their car during the
church service. The broadcast was put over the radio.
And as an alternative to us saying no today, maybe we could
give consideration -- because we have an enormous parking area over
there as well. So one of the thoughts might be to allow for people to
attend a fireworks show but stay in their vehicle just to greater
provide for the social distancing aspect. And I don't -- that's
something they haven't really thought of yet. Maybe we could bring
it up next Tuesday at our regular board meeting and give
reconsideration.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Certainly, you can bring anything
you want to. I know that they needed a decision by the 1st of June if
they were going to have a fireworks show. So bringing it up next
Tuesday on June 9th, even if it was to be successful, may not be
doable, so...
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: It was a --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Talk to the Manager and bring it
up, and if it's something that's doable, we certainly can consider it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We don't need to go down that
path if the consensus is to not do it at all. We don't need to explore it.
It was something that we have done at the county fair, and it has
functioned and allowed people to gather, so...
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No one's lit up, so I don't think
there are any comments on that right now, so...
All right. Mr. Ochs, I think we're ready for the Sheriff. Is that --
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Sheriff Rambosk, good morning.
And I want to congratulate you and the men and women in your
department. We were -- a lot of us were watching a lot of what was
going on last night. Your officers were extremely professional, kept
the crowds, you know, not doing anything that they shouldn't have
June 2, 2020
Page 31
been doing. But the main thing is your officers were extremely polite
and de-escalated any types of tension, and that's unique for a law
enforcement agency. So I want to congratulate you for that. I know
you've got a report as to how things went.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Thank you, Mr. Chairman and
members of the Commission.
That was how I was going to wind up my update to you, but I
think I'll jump on that right now because the professionalism and
conduct of law enforcement was superior throughout this event. And
there were times of the attempt to engage law enforcement. In fact,
many of them, your deputies, your law enforcement officers, chose
not to do that because we're here to support the right and protect the
First Amendment for demonstration as long as it's peaceful.
You know, we have been watching what has been occurring
since the death of George Floyd, which I can tell you that the
members of the Collier County Sheriff's Office find unacceptable.
And we began our events last night, as you know, at the
courthouse with a demonstration, about 250 people. We want to
thank your security and the manager and his staff for all the help
there in getting organized and supporting this effort. That portion of
the event went very smoothly, very peaceably.
What we didn't know was that there was to be a march to follow.
And when that began and entered the roadways, of course, my
concern is always for the safety of vehicles and pedestrians,
particularly on a highway. So we brought in the necessary staff to
effect a safe corridor for those individuals to walk to downtown.
We worked together with the City of Naples. We had the
highway patrol with us, and we made sure that there was a safe
corridor to and from. We were able to get the group back to the
courthouse and complete probably, I don't know, 11:00, 12:00, I don't
know, something like that by the time it was finally done. Went
June 2, 2020
Page 32
peaceably, and we're looking at the potential for another
demonstration today, although that's not been confirmed, again, here
at the courthouse.
So we'll be working with your staff throughout the day. We
know there are two events in Collier County for tomorrow. One is in
the City of Naples for sure. The other one may be as well in the City
of Naples. So we'll be providing whatever assistance th at they need
to ensure that it is done safely.
Bottom line is in our community, like we have done in all the
other challenges that we've seen in the last three months, we have
created an incident management team. Jim Bloom has been in charge
of that, and that's how we continue to move through each of these
different situations and challenges that we're facing, so...
We did have four arrests. They were for -- three were for
disorderly conduct. It is a minor number of people. One for reckless
driving. Again, vehicular traffic just becomes unpredictable and
difficult to maintain safe for pedestrians, so -- but beyond that,
everything went well.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Any questions or
comments from the Commission?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'll start off by also thanking you
for your comments that were in the paper this morning concerning
the death of George Floyd. Your comments were well taken. I think
anyone looking at that video has to come to the conclusion that tha t
was just an awful intentional act of violence. The murder charges
against the officer are appropriate, and probably criminal charges
against the other three are appropriate. And so I just want to thank
you for your comments in the paper. I certainly e cho those.
Any comments from the Commission?
Commissioner McDaniel.
June 2, 2020
Page 33
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Very brief. Thank you.
I completely concur with what our Chair has said and your efforts.
Our Sheriff's Department has been regularly in communication with
me, because they know I get a lot of questions and things with
regards to what's going on. I just want to say thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Taylor.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I was on Fifth. I'm very, very
proud, first of all, of the way the Sheriff's Office, NPD, and highway
patrol worked together. That's what struck me.
There was -- there was a clear respect, if I may use the word, of
the right of everyone to protest. There was a clear respect of what
they had to say. They may not agree with it, but to me you did us
proud as a community. And your comments this morning are well
taken.
And I think that when this settles, hopefully folks will
understand that there are police forces and sheriff's departments in
different counties and in different states throughout this country, and
they're not all equal. And what you've done and what you started in
the City of Naples with community policing and what you've
continued to do in Collier County, I think, has given us a sense of
security and safety that years and years of your work have given us,
and I wanted to thank you for it, Sheriff Rambosk.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. Just quickly I want to kind of
reiterate what everybody said. You make us feel safe in our house,
on the road, and so forth, and especially when something dynamic
like this happens to our community, I feel comfortable that I'm just
fine.
Somebody called me while it was going on, and she said, "Are
you okay? Are you okay? You're so close to it."
I said, "Well, I didn't have any fears at all" because you guys are
June 2, 2020
Page 34
right there taking care of us, and beautifully. It's too bad you can't
give lessons to other communities. That's all.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: And I'll just reiterate the same
thing.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: You weren't lit up.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Yeah, I'm sorry.
And also, my sense of it was that protesters probably felt safe as
well, which is, I think, equally important. I mean, if -- this is a tough
time in our country, and I think that those that need to express
their -- you know, their right to protest in a -- in a peaceful way, you
know, should feel safe, and I think that's the other side of what a
wonderful job our law enforcement does in Collier County. I think
it's -- again, it's the best place to live.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. That concludes our
agenda. We typically ask if there are any comments from the
Commissioners at the closing. We'll start at this end. I think,
Commissioner Taylor, did you have any --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I do. I wondered if -- I wanted
to refer my commission to a letter that we got from our County
Manager. It was directed to me, but I think everybody was copied on
Friday.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I wondered if there were any
comments, and then I'd like to make comments on it in terms
of -- and it is about the actions of the Clerk Kinzel and her contacting
Florida Gulf Coast University twice.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We've all read the letter, but if you
have comments, this is the time, and we can respond to that if we so
choose.
Commissioner Taylor.
June 2, 2020
Page 35
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I've done some research about
the Inspector General's position and learned that -- and I think Clerk
Kinzel was very open when she was moving towards it and how it
was established, but I've also learned that clerk's offices throughout
the state are looking at establishing an inspector general's position
and that it basically is a -- it's comparable to an audit director or chief
audit executive.
Now, Palm Beach has something that's very different. There
was a lot of crime and issues that brought the voters to a point where
they established an inspector general's position. In Palm Beach it's
much stronger. It's -- and it's very independent of the bodies, but
that's not what we have here. It's unique. Palm Beach is unique.
My concern about what happened is -- and I know Ms. Kinzel
wanted to talk to me, but I think we're going to be kind of talking
about it now -- is that right after we as a board approved unanimously
the contract with Florida Gulf Coast University, the very next day
Ms. Kinzel's office called the president's office of Florida Gulf Coast
University to ask for a meeting and to use the Clerk of the Court, and
the Inspector General of Collier County wanted to meet and that this
would -- their meeting would be important because it would
determine whether they would get paid for a contract.
Now, I won't get into that comment yet, but I will say that those
comments bordered, in my basic terms, as bullying. I think it was
intimidating, and I take exception with that.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let me -- let me interrupt you just
for a second.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: May I continue?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I want to interrupt you for just for a
second, because one of the things that we have been very careful
about is not personalizing our comments. And when you say that the
Clerk of Courts -- and I think that's what you said -- was bullying,
June 2, 2020
Page 36
stick to the facts. What you did is fine, but don't accuse our clerk of
bullying. I think that that's making a personal attack that's just not
necessary.
So I'm going to take exception to that, and that's why I
interrupted you.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I'm not accusing her. I'm saying
that it is her actions, and the actions --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, if you can explain to me the
difference between what you just said and what I just said, I'd like to
hear that.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes, sir, I can. I'm not saying
that the Clerk of the Court is a bully. I'm saying her actions gave me
the impression of bullying. There's a huge --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And that's what I'm taking
exception to. Stick to the facts.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: That's your right to take
exceptions to it, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: It's your right to continue; I
understand that. I'm just letting the Clerk know these are your words,
not mine.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: It's common when you audit that
you send out a letter in advance announcing that you want to audit.
It's also common -- it's common practice and practice, I believe, of
inspector generals -- and, again, I took the time to research
this -- within the Clerk's Office to do the same, as an inspector
general within a Clerk's Office is also an audit director or a chief
audit executive.
All clerk's offices have auditors. It's what they do. They protect
taxpayers' money. There's nothing wrong with that. That is probably
the most important part of their job, to make sure that how we spend
money is done with -- to a contract and it's done carefully.
June 2, 2020
Page 37
But when you want to, what I consider, go and meet with an
entity without a contract even starting, when there's nothing to audit,
when there's nothing to -- there's been no expenses, I just -- to me this
is an intimidation technique.
Clearly, when we unanimously approved a contract that we
wanted to do business with FGCU and the next day a call comes
questioning -- asking them for a meeting because meeting with you
might determine whether they're going to get paid or not -- and
again --
THE CLERK: Commissioner Taylor, could I speak on this?
Because I really think something's gone way out of context.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: This is -- this is --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Hang on a second.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: This is -- this is --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Let Commissioner Taylor finish.
We'll get to you.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Again, this is based on a letter
from FGCU. This is not me making it up. It's there. We all got this
letter.
To me, it's -- I think my colleague to my left said it well, we
make policy here. We decide policy, and you audit, and you make
sure that the policy is followed.
And in this case, you've crossed the line, in my opinion. In this
case, I consider it an abuse of your power, and it very saddens me to
say this, because we work together, and I want to continue to work
together. But I must put this on the record.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Solis.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I'm just going to echo what
Commissioner Taylor has said. I mean, the Clerk told us that, based
upon the contract that we approved, that she would not pay. And I
June 2, 2020
Page 38
think that that is a major intrusion into our role as the policymakers.
I mean, we set the policy.
The audit is -- the audit is to the contract. Are we following and
are the payments following the terms of the contract? The audit, I
don't think, should be to something other than what's in the contract
that's approved by the Commission.
So I feel the same way.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
First off, I had to think about your colleague to the left. I had to
make sure it was me.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Which left?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes.
And I'm going to ask a really quick question. Are you going to
pay on the contract that you have in front of you?
THE CLERK: And let me take --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes or no?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's not a yes or a no question --
THE CLERK: No, it isn't.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- because -- and I'm not defending
the Clerk or the Commission. But you're asking a question -- a
hypothetical question, "are you going to pay on a contract?" and it
depends on the performance of the contract. I think everybody,
regardless of the contract, would say the same thing. I can't
guarantee I'm going to pay until I see that there's performance,
whether it's this contract or any other kind of contract. So that's why
I'm saying that it's not a yes or a no question, and I don't want to put
the Clerk on the spot of having to say yes or no to that type of a
question.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I put her on the spot last week
when we talked about this.
June 2, 2020
Page 39
THE CLERK: And let me clarify, I did not say that I would not
pay on this contract. I was very, very careful not to say that, because
I could never make a predetermination without a presentation of an
invoice and interpreting that invoice to the contract.
I think the phone call has been -- I have not seen a letter from
FGCU. I've not seen a letter that I've heard came to some people. I
was never copied on that. But let me clarify for you what occ urred at
our office.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I --
THE CLERK: Well, wait. You asked this -- and there have
been there accusations on here I should at least get to clarify, because
I think we're arguing about something that isn't real. It isn't how it
happened.
So let me explain what we did. After we had this conversation
here in the boardroom -- okay. I'll answer.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We do have a procedure here --
THE CLERK: Okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- and I had recognized
Commissioner McDaniel. I interrupted him because I didn't feel that
a yes or no question was correct. Let's get back to Commissioner
McDaniel.
You'll have a full opportunity to explain whatever you need to
explain.
Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Forgive me. I'm not -- I don't
have that law degree handicap that you two do have with
interpretations of asking questions.
But I didn't personally interpret what the Clerk had to say as she
wasn't [sic] going to not pay on the current contract. I understand full
well that there are legalities with regard to the Clerk's duties to pay
and what they can and can't do.
June 2, 2020
Page 40
I did hear her make an analogous statement with regard to the
numbers as to the appropriation and its validity, and I thought that we
had ensured that it was this board's job to set policy and then make
the determination as to whether to continue with the validity of that
expense based upon the performance under the agreement.
And I didn't hear the Clerk say that she would or would not pay.
I don't think she technically could commit to that for and until the
fulfillment of the legal parameters are, in fact, done.
I just wanted -- that was where I was going with regard to my
perception of what I heard the Clerk say, and -- that's all. There.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. I'm going to make a bit
of a comment, and then I'll ask the Clerk to do the same.
When three of us got elected to this board in 2016, which seems
like a century ago but at the same time almost a minute ago, the
county had been embroiled in very significant, long-standing
litigation with the Clerk's Office, costing the county a lot of money.
That's a matter of public record. I believe that that was probably in
the millions by the time -- if you add it all up.
And I made a commitment that we weren't going to get into that
type of situation ever again, and the reason is that the Clerk and the
Commission are sitting on the same side of the table. We're not
adversaries. The Clerk has a very important role, and that is to make
sure that our expenditures are legal and, quite frankly, I like that,
because if something goes wrong, I can point to the Cle rk. Why did
you make that payment on an illegal contract?
So whatever we decide today, whatever we do, we're on the
same team, and that's why I objected to the use of the term
"bullying," because I don't necessarily agree that the Clerk should
have made the phone call.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Two phone calls.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I don't care if it was two phone
June 2, 2020
Page 41
calls or three. You know, that's irrelevant. I don't believe that the
Clerk should have made that phone call, but we're going to work this
out so that at the end of the day we're still on the same side of the
table.
Now, I know the Manager took a very strong reaction. I don't
blame the Manager for doing that, because he's got a certain position
to protect. But we're going to maintain this relationship with the
Clerk's Office as long as I'm sitting here, and --
Your turn.
THE CLERK: I appreciate that, Commissioner, because that's
my goal, too.
The only reason I brought the contract forward in my comments
were to communicate with you that I had those concerns.
Now, when we ended the meeting on Tuesday and you approved
the contract that we had, I gave my card to the three representatives
from Florida Gulf Coast, and I said, let's get together so we can work
on the invoicing and understanding the reporting so when you need a
payment I can pay it right away, and those were my words.
The two calls to Florida Gulf Coast were made by my executive
assistant just to get a time frame. I've not spoken to them in any way.
I've never used the term "the Inspector General's coming." My
assistant, I'm sure, wouldn't have used that. I said I wanted to sit
down and work out the elements so that when an invoice was
presented we could process it through the contract. It was totally to
be constructive.
I have since heard about -- and, again, never been copied or told
or had the discussion about some letter. That, I can assure you, was
not my intent. And, since we had all of these blowups in the prior
history, we've taken this a lot of times in working with vendors. On
some of your construction contracts, we meet with the contractors
because we say, this is the backup we're looking for, and they say,
June 2, 2020
Page 42
great, I can get it or no, I can't. If they can't we say, okay, what do
you have that would get us to the same place and the same
validation? And they're usually able to constructively give us
something else.
To use the term "bullying" when it was a secretary/executive
assistance that just phoned to meet with them -- I had told them very
specifically here, handing them my card, I want to work through this.
I want this to be a positive relationship and work through any bumps
we might have based on what the Board passed today.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I'd like for the Manager to get to
the Clerk the letters. They're all public records, and you should have
them anyway.
THE CLERK: And I certainly, Commissioner Taylor, would
apologize to them if they in any way thought that was a bullying
tactic. It was just the opposite. It was try to get all the information
and detail.
And I would hope -- you've known me now for those two years
plus the years before [sic] Dwight was here. I always want to meet
with the people and constructively try to fix it. That's been how I
operate, and that was all I was trying to do in this situation.
So I think this has just been blown so far out of proportion by
maybe a lack of conversation. So I'm glad you brought it up so that
we could have the conversation.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Taylor.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I did speak to the representatives
from FGCU on Friday after I understood that you had made two calls
up there, and they had great concerns, and they are concerned
whether they're going to get paid.
But I would say that given the -- and you and I also had
conversation before the meeting at which point we did discuss your
concerns, and those concerns I wrote out. They were delivered to the
June 2, 2020
Page 43
County Manager's Office. He responded. And the concerns that you
had were addressed except for one, and yet when you delivered your
concerns at the meeting, they were different.
This gives me great angst and concern that -- of a concern that
perhaps you were looking more at policy rather than at your job, very
important job, as the Chief Auditor of Collier County and the
taxpayers' money.
THE CLERK: And --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And I would very much like you
to stay in your lane.
THE CLERK: And, Commissioner, I totally respect that. I am
trying to stay in my lane. The thing I was trying to do was to point
out to you -- and we went over with you every one of those outlined
items that I passed out. I understand the County Manager changed a
couple of items. Commissioner Saunders referred to the 180 days.
Those things had not been changed when the executive summary
came to you, the reporting elements that we discussed and how those
reports needed to be backed up with a goal or objective, not just filing
a simple report. We had discussed every single one of those in your
office.
And I assure you that was my intent, as I spoke with almost
every other commissioner about those concerns. So there was no
intent to sidebar it. What we saw come forward from the County
Manager's Office didn't include corrections to all of those, but I think
we could work through it, and that was my whole intent.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Would you agree, then, to work
through it, you work through the Commission?
THE CLERK: Absolutely. I had asked the County Manager if
we could meet directly with Florida Gulf Coast, because sometimes
when you understand what their intent is in information, we can weed
through and say, ah, that's how we would validate that information.
June 2, 2020
Page 44
So working together is constructive to make sure it's run smoothly,
and we've done that with numerous vendors to avoid confrontati on.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Any other comments on
this particular topic?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: In terms of staying in your lane and
in terms of working through the Commission, I think the way things
have been going has worked. We had a little bump in the road here
on what I think was probably a misunderstanding more than anything
else. So let's, you know, keep doing what you're constitutionally
required to do.
THE CLERK: And I would appreciate if -- Commissioner
Taylor, if you would facilitate, let us all go and make Florida Gulf
Coast happier. I do not want them to be uncomfortable in what
they're doing.
As I started out my conversation on Tuesday, I support
education, I support Florida Gulf Coast, and I support economic
development. So if you and I can get together, maybe we can make
sure things go well.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Well -- and I'd like to respond to
that by saying what would make Florida Gulf Coast happy is for you
to understand that we unanimously passed a contract that is written
and to abide by that contract.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Let's move on.
Commissioner McDaniel, do you have anything for the good of the
order?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I don't know if it's for the
good of the order, but I have a few things.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: As long as they don't relate to the
Clerk's Office, let's hear what they are.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, I think that one there is
June 2, 2020
Page 45
laying down.
Two questions, County Manager. Are park -- are playgrounds
open yet?
MR. OCHS: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's state -- that's a State issue, I
believe.
MR. OCHS: Commissioner, we're actually trying to get those
ready in conjunction with the opening of the summer camps which
will be, I believe, the 8th and the 9th. I see --
Is that right, Steve?
MR. CARNELL: Yes.
MR. OCHS: He's shaking his head "yes."
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I assume we're going to
have a report formally on Tuesday. I just wanted to ask the question.
And then the second I wanted to ask is a favor. We all know we
had some large fires, and at least 12 homes were lost. I would like to
ensure and have an additional report that our EOC has reached out to
those folks that temporary housing if, in fact, it's availed, can be
offered to them, and inspection fees and permitting fees and that are
as lenient as possible, waived if possible just to assist those folks.
And I remember in prior fires we had an issue because some of
the structures weren't permitted legally in the first place, so we were
having to -- we were having impact fee issues and so on.
So I just would like, if you would, please, between now and next
Tuesday, make sure that our -- that our folks reach out to those folks
who did suffer those losses and that accommodations are being
afforded so that no one's left -- no one's left out.
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir. Will do. And, in fact, there's an item on
your agenda dealing with the fee waiver for those re -buildings.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Very good. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Solis?
June 2, 2020
COMMISSIONER S OLI S: Nothing from me.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Nothing.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I have nothing as well.
Unless there's something from the Manager or the Attorney, we
are adjourned.
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 10:23 a.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
Atxt/ese,,.0.--
BURT SAUNDERS, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST
CRYSTAL K. KINZEL, CLERK
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Afitest as t o Q
sign tuGeP jY
These minutes appr ved by the Board or, k t'.2O1Q as
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presented ✓ or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
COURT REPORTING BY TERRI LEWIS, FPR, COURT
REPORTER AND NOTARY PUBLIC.
Page 46