CCPC Minutes 09/07/2006 R
September 7, 2006
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION
Naples, Florida September 7, 2006
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Planning
Commission in and for the County of Collier, having conducted
business herein, met on this date at 8:30 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION
in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida,
with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Mark Strain (Absent)
Lindy Adelstein
Donna Reed Caron
Tor Kolf1at
Paul Midney
Robert Murray
Brad Schiffer
Russell Tuff
Robert Vigliotti (Absent)
ALSO PRESENT:
Ray Bellows, Zoning & Land Dev. Review
Joseph Schmitt, Community Dev. & Env. Services
Marjorie Student-Stirling, Assistant County Attorney
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AGENDA
COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION WILL MEET AT 8:30 A.M., THURSDAY, SEPTEMBER 7, 2006, IN
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS MEETING ROOM, ADMINISTRATION BUILDING, COUNTY.
GOVERNMENT CENTER, 3301 TAMIAMI TRAIL EAST, NAPLES, FLORIDA:
NOTE: INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS WILL BE LIMITED TO 5 MINUTES ON ANY
ITEM. INDIVIDUALS SELECTED TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF AN
ORGANIZATION OR GROUP ARE ENCOURAGED AND MAYBE ALLOTTED 10
MINUTES TO SPEAK ON AN ITEM IF SO RECOGNIZED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
PERSONS WISHING TO HAVE WRITTEN OR GRAPHIC MATERIALS INCLUDED
IN THE CCPC AGENDA PACKETS MUST SUBMIT SAID MATERIAL A MINIMUM
OF 10 DAYS PRIOR TO THE RESPECTIVE PUBLIC HEARING. IN ANY CASE,
WRITTEN MATERIALS INTENDED TO BE CONSIDERED BY THE CCPC SHALL
BE SUBMITTED TO THE APPROPRIATE COUNTY STAFF A MINIMUM OF
SEVEN DAYS PRIOR TO THE PUBLIC HEARING. ALL MATERIAL USED IN
PRESENTATIONS BEFORE THE CCPC WILL BECOME A PERMANENT PART OF
THE RECORD AND WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR PRESENTATION TO THE BOARD
OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS IF APPLICABLE.
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THE CCPC WILL
NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND
THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBA TIM RECORD OF THE
PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE TESTIMONY AND
EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
1. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
2. ROLL CALL BY CLERK
3. ADDENDA TO THE AGENDA
4. PLANNING COMMISSION ABSENCES
5. APPROV AL OF MINUTES - JULY 6,2006, REGULAR MEETING; JULY 20,2006, REGULAR MEETING
6. BCC REPORT- RECAPS - JULY 25, 2006, REGULAR MEETING
7. CHAIRMAN'S REPORT
8. ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. Petition: PUDZ-2005-AR-7834, Black Bear Properties of FL, LLC, represented by Tim Hancock, Planning
Director of Davidson Engineering, Inc., is requesting a rezone from the Estates, Wellfield Risk Management
Special Treatment Overlay Zone W-l zoning district (E-ST/WSI) to the Commercial Planned Unit
Development (CPUD) zoning district for C-3 Intermediate Commercial land uses, which can provide a
variety of services with a common architectural theme, as regulated in the Neighborhood Commercial
Center of the Golden Gate Are Master Plan (GGAMP). The subject property, consisting of 4.86 acres, is
located at the southwest corner of the intersection of Golden Gate Boulevard and Wilson Boulevard, in
Section 9, Township 49 South, Range 27 East, Collier County, Florida. (Coordinator: Mike DeRuntz)
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September 7,2006
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: The meeting will come to
order. All rise for the Pledge of Allegiance.
(Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Commissioner Caron, would
you read the roll, please.
COMMISSIONER CARON: Mr. Kolf1at?
COMMISSIONER KOLFLAT: Here.
COMMISSIONER CARON: Mr. Schiffer?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Here.
COMMISSIONER CARON: Mr. Midney?
COMMISSIONER MIDNEY: Here.
COMMISSIONER CARON: Mr. Strain is absent today.
Mr. Adelstein?
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Here.
COMMISSIONER CARON: Mr. Murray?
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Here.
COMMISSIONER CARON: And Mr. Tuff?
COMMISSIONER TUFF: Here.
COMMISSIONER CARON: And Mr. Vigliotti is out as well.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Mr. B, would you have the
people fix this? It's not working again.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Mine neither, Ray.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: And I'm going to need it. I
don't have my equipment with me.
Item #3
ADDENDA TO THE AGENDA
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: We're all set?
Addenda for the agenda. After the completion of AR-7834, we
will try to complete the second hearing of the LDC Amendments after
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September 7, 2006
that PUD is finished.
Planning Commission absences.
(No response.)
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Are there none? Good.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: I'm here.
Item #5
MINUTES OF THE JULY 6, 2006 AND JULY 20, 2006 CCPC
REGULAR MEETING
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Approval of the minutes of
July 6th, 2006 Regular Meeting. Are there any changes?
(N 0 response.)
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Ifnot, could I have a
motion?
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Moved.
COMMISSIONER TUFF: Second.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: All in favor?
COMMISSIONER CARON: Aye.
COMMISSIONER MIDNEY: Aye.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Aye.
COMMISSIONER TUFF: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Aye.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOLFLAT: Aye.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Approved.
Approve the minutes of July 20th, 2006 Regular Meeting. Are
there any changes?
(No response.)
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Ifnot, is there a motion?
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Moved.
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September 7,2006
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Second?
COMMISSIONER TUFF: Second.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: All in favor?
COMMISSIONER CARON: Aye.
COMMISSIONER MIDNEY: Aye.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Aye.
COMMISSIONER TUFF: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Aye.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOLFLAT: Aye.
Item #6
BCC-REPORTS-RECAPS JULY 25~ 2006 REGULAR MEETING
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Thank you.
BCC Report. Recap, July 26th. Are there any -- are they ready
for us, Ray?
MR. BELLOWS: There are no recaps since their last meeting.
The board is on vacation, so there was no hearing.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: It said it was a Regular
Meeting. That's fine.
MR. BELLOWS: Yeah, the July 25th one should be in your
packet, the recaps. You didn't get them?
COMMISSIONER CARON: I did not get it.
MR. BELLOWS: I'll have those forwarded to you.
Item #7
CHAIRMAN'S REPORT
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Thank you.
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September 7, 2006
There will be no chairman's report.
Item #8A
PETITION PUDZ-2005-AR-7834
Petition PUDZ-2005-AR-7834.
All those participating, please stand to be sworn in.
(Speakers were duly sworn.)
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Black Bear Properties of
Florida, LLC, represented by Tim Hancock.
Mr. Hancock, you've got the floor.
MR. HANCOCK: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of
the Planning Commission. My name is Tim Hancock with Davidson
Engineering, here today as agent for the applicant. The applicant, Mr.
Mike Shiller (phonetic) with Black Bear Properties is here seated to
my left. To his right and your left is Mr. Mike Volpe, attorney for the
applicant.
Also here today, Carrie Ann Haviland (phonetic) with Ram
Development, which is the Walgreen's developer for this particular
site. Probably fighting traffic on her way south.
To give you an overview of the property, the subject property
located at the southwest corner of Golden Gate Boulevard and Wilson
Boulevard is 4.19 acres in size. It is currently zoned Estates with an
ST or special treatment overlay, and also a WS-1 designation, which
refers to level one in the Wellfield Protection Ordinance.
Northeast of the project is an existing convenience store, and I'm
kind of rolling over that with a curser on your screen. And
immediately across Wilson Boulevard to the east is a zoned
commercial development called the Wilson Boulevard Center.
The property is designated on the Growth Management Plan,
and more specifically in the Golden Gate Area Future Land Use
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Element or Future Land Use Map, as the neighborhood center
subdistrict, and is located pretty much in the center of the map as I'm
indicating here for you.
The criteria required for projects in the neighborhood center
subdistrict, as contained in the Golden Gate master plan, in part are as
follows: And I'm going to list these for the specific purpose of
expressing how this project complies with those conditions.
Number one: They must provide basic goods, services and
amenities to Estate residents. The Snowy Egret CPUD contains uses
that mirror this requirement. The property is under contract for the
specific purpose of developing a Walgreen's drugstore. And that
makes things a lot easier on the applicant when we start talking about
specific conditions as they relate to the zoning. Obviously this use
meets the particular needs and the intent of the district.
As you'll see later in the site plan, there is a small parcel of land
to the rear of the Walgreen's. Development of that site is undecided.
However, the uses contained in the PUD are C-l through C- 3 uses,
which are the listed uses in the neighborhood center subdistrict.
No single use proj ect within the district may utilize more than 50
percent of the total allowable commercial acreage. The size of this
project equates to approximately 16 percent of the total neighborhood
center subdistrict.
Access within the subdistrict is restricted to one per 180 linear
feet along each street frontage. As you can see from the PUD Master
Plan, we are proposing only one access point on Golden Gate
Boulevard, and one access point along Wilson Boulevard. The access
on Golden Gate is to the bottom left of your screen; the access on
Wilson is actually to the top -- I'm sorry, I stand corrected. The top
right is the access to Golden Gate Boulevard and the bottom middle is
the access to Wilson.
The access to Golden Gate Boulevard has been moved as far to
the west as practical, recognizing their buffer requirements within the
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subdistrict. And the access on Wilson Boulevard has been designed to
line up with the proposed access with the commercial center across the
street.
There is a 25- foot buffer requirement along the external
rights-of-way, which would be along Wilson Boulevard to the bottom
of the plan, and along Golden Gate Boulevard, which is to the right of
the plan is you look at it.
There are planting requirements within these 25 feet. And as
you've probably noticed going through the staff report, if one issue,
and I believe only one issue crops up on that staff report, it is a
potential conflict between a transportation need for future
right-of-way along Wilson Boulevard and this buffer. We believe
we've resolved that conflict, and if you'll bear with me I'll complete
the presentation and we'll address that issue as the last item.
All buildings within the neighborhood center subdistrict must
meet architectural requirements that are actually in excess or in
addition to, if you will, the county's commercial architectural
guidelines.
What you see here, and we're entering for the record, this is the
proposed elevation, and I'm compelled to say conceptual elevation at
this point. As you know, until the building permit is approved nothing
can be nailed down. This project will have to go through the site
development plan approval process, as well as the building permit.
However, we're fairly confident that what is shown here, with
the exception of some additional landscaping will meet not just the
intent but the letter of that code, is intended to mimic an old Florida
style with a metal roof over a covered walkway, muted colors and
earth tones. And again, these are elements contained in the
neighborhood center subdistrict.
One question that has -- that Mr. Teaters with the Civic
Association has raised is what you see in the kind of center of this
elevation is a tower element, which is a requirement of the code.
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That element in some degrees is exempt from the 35-foot height
limitation.
What I've asked Mr. Teaters, and we have agreed to come back
to them with the elevation, if they feel that that tower is out of
proportion with the balance of the building, we've agreed to kind of
work with them on that. I think architecturally it works here, but I
don't want to speak for the association, they have not really reviewed
this and had time to take action on it. But we're comfortable that we've
accomplished that objective here. If that tower needs to be changed a
couple of feet one way or the other, that's just not really an issue for
us.
The building height, the lighting for the site and pedestrian
connections as well as any fencing is items that will be addressed in
more specificity as we go through with the site development plan
approval process. But the neighborhood center subdistrict does require
those items be addressed, and compliance with that will be through the
SDP.
While this store will have a drive-through lane for the pharmacy,
it is not deemed a drive-through establishment, which is a prohibited
Use within the district. And I think when you think of drive-through
establishments I think of things such as Checker's, for example, that
makes its living on the drive-through business.
So the drive-through lanes you'll see later on the site plan is
actually behind the building. You won't see it from Wilson
Boulevard at all. And we find that that's kind of necessary element
when putting a pharmacy in a well traveled and high trafficked area
such as this.
A 75-foot buffer has been provided along the adjacent
properties to the west and to the south. That is again a requirement of
the center subdistrict.
Important to note, and it is noted in your staff report, that the
property immediately to the west has applied for a Growth
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Management Plan amendment to be included in the center. At this
point, however, we're compelled to treat it as it is today. There's no
guarantee that that will or won't be approved. So we're under today's
rules and complying with those rules as moving forward.
The applicant does agree with the staff conclusions and findings
contained in their staff report, including the consistency of the
proposed CPUD with the Golden Gate master plan, with the following
minor clarifications. And they are in my opinion strictly
clarifications: Under finding number six on Page 13 of the staff
report, under the con. section, the section we as consultants need to
have to read, staff states that the building massing will be out of
character with nearby residential uses. While they correctly state --
and Mr. DeRuntz has done a good job in the staff report -- that in the
findings, that the neighborhood center criteria does address this issue
through buffering, primarily.
I'd like to point out specifically in the Walgreen's plan, and I
mentioned this earlier, the building as you can see sits here a little
forward of center of the site. This is the entrance coming off of Wilson
Boulevard. And to the left of that is a small parcel that remains
developable within this plan.
Whether that's to be a bank, which is the hoped use, or another
C-l through C-3 use, it's going to be a building that's smaller in
nature, smaller in character. We believe that when combined with the
required buffering to the rear and a smaller building to the south, what
you're going to see is a very clear transitioning element. The larger
building of Walgreen's, which is still only 14,000 square feet, to a
smaller building, to then a 75-foot buffer and residential.
So we feel that that transitioning element has been achieved
within the plan at the development of the site that will be ferreted out.
Also on Page 13 of the staff report, staff indicated that the
project may have a slight negative impact to the existing roadway.
And I think we all know, any time you build anything, there's the
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chance for a slight negative impact to the roadway it sits on.
But it does give me the opportunity to tap one of the strengths of
this CPUD, which is that contained within the trip generation report,
the number of trips generated by the proj ect, which is a little over
2,000, 68 percent are estimated to be drive-by trips.
This is the whole purpose for the neighborhood center
subdistrict was to locate uses that are necessary uses for folks who
live in the Estates. And this certainly fits that bill. And I think that's
why you see such a high drive-by rate. And I think we can look at a
Walgreen's very differently, or a drugstore very differently than you
would a strip center where you may decide because of the
convenience of a restaurant to go out to eat, but you probably aren't
going to decide because of the convenience of a pharmacy to go get
your prescription filled. It's something you're going to do, the
question is how far you are going to drive to get it done.
So the fact that this is a pharmacy that is leading the
development -- or carrying the development banner for this proj ect we
feel speaks very well for the benefits for the overall transportation
system.
On Page 14 of 20 of the staff report, staff indicates this petition
could adversely affect property values.
When this property or this area was specifically designated for
commercial use in 2003 through the Growth Management Plan
amendment process, in essence the die was cast for commercial use.
We all know that the designation of the Growth Management Plan by
itself does not guarantee zoning.
By the same token, the extensive public process that was
involved in creating these subdistricts, I think the assessment of
whether or not this type of development, whether or not included these
buffers it would have an adverse impact on adj acent properties was
factored in to a high degree in that process.
So to date we have received no negative comments. We had a
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neighborhood information meeting with 45 people in attendance. And
I'd like to clone that neighborhood information meeting and have it
for every one of my proj ects. Because what we found was a high
degree of support in the neighborhood, in the Estates in general. The
only, I guess if you could say negative comment is, you know, have
you talked to Publix? And we have. Unfortunately this site is not
appropriate for a Publix supermarket. And clearly everybody in the
Estates seems to want a grocery store, and I sympathize with that.
But that aside, we got very, very positive feedback on the use,
on the site plans itself. We did have an elevation at that time but, you
know, I wanted again to make sure an elevation was included as a
part of our presentation, so the character of the development was on
display today for everyone to see, because I think it speaks well for
the project.
With those three minor clarifications, I'd like to address the
issue of the right-of-way needs and the buffer requirements that are
mentioned many times in your staff report, and quite honestly are the
only points of contention contained in the staff report from the point
of consistency with the Growth Management Plan.
Initially when the project came in, the county requested a
reservation, and ultimately a donation of right-of-way along both
Golden Gate Boulevard, again to the right of your plan, and along
Wilson, which is to the bottom of the plan in front of you.
That request was ultimately made for up to 25 feet. And the
reason it's up to is the intersection design for Golden Gate Boulevard
and Wilson is not yet to the 30 percent design stage. Because of that,
quite honestly, staffs not really sure what they're going to need. They
know it's not going to be more than 25 feet, but really don't have a lot
of details about that.
Recognizing that, and I'll be candid with you, 25 feet along
Golden Gate Boulevard really just kind of moved the building back a
little bit. We have tried to factor that in. We may run into a little bit of
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conflict, if it is 25 feet, with the entrance off Wilson, but we think we
can make that work. So we have no problem with the reservation of
25 feet along Golden Gate. And in fact, Black Bear Properties has
agreed to donate that right-of-way at no cost to the county.
As we move to Wilson, we get to the critical component of
making this site plan work. And as you view the site plan, I'd like
you to understand that Walgreen's as a national company has
minimum standards. This building is the narrowest building that they
build. So we've already taken that and plugged it into the plan and
tried to gain as much ground as we can.
Along Wilson Boulevard what we have been able to do is to
reserve 15 feet and still protect the 25- foot buffer requirement to the
south. Initially transportation suggested language that should more
than that be necessary, that it would not count against us in the
buffering requirement.
Normally when we're dealing with the Land Development Code
required buffer, that type of deviation is acceptable in a PUD.
Unfortunately for this project that buffer requirement is contained in
the Growth Management Plan. There is no deviation process for the
Growth Management Plan. If there were, I think you'd probably have
a lot more petitions in front of you. So unless there's an amendment to
the Growth Management Plan, we have to provide that 25-foot buffer.
So therein lies the conflict.
Transportation staff may need up to 25 feet, we have to
maintain the 25 feet, and quite honestly, there's not any room left in
the plan based on the buffer requirements to accommodate that.
We have discussed this with transportation, and what we have
agreed to is to -- and we're asking you to forward this with a
recommendation of approval today specifically stating that a
reservation of right-of-way -- a donation of right-of-way, if you will,
of 25 feet along Golden Gate Parkway, and 15 feet along Wilson.
If necessary, if they need an additional easement for water
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management that doesn't affect our buffer, we're happy to work with
them on that. And we'll continue to work with the transportation
department to assist them in any way we can. But we want to limit
that donation of right-of-way to 15 feet along Wilson Boulevard as
we stand here today for the simple sake of making sure this site plan
still works.
With that, and if transportation concurs with that position at this
time, I think that resolves the one key issue that appeared in your staff
report on repeated occasions dealing with consistency with the Growth
Management Plan.
The balance of the site, because of the constraints in the Growth
Management Plan in the subdistrict actually exceeds the vast majority
of your Land Development Code requirements. So we've got a large
buffer area there for consistency.
With that, I would like to conclude my presentation and ask the
Chair for the opportunity to address any issues that are raised by staff
or members of this commission, or any member of the public prior to
the closing of the public hearing. I'd be happy to address any
questions you have at this time.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Mr. Murray?
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Mr. Hancock, I'm looking at
your current picture there, and in the back, as you call it the back,
there is the drive-through window. And I see three arrows and I see
what appears to be the possibility of two service areas for pharmacy
and one bypass; is that true?
MR. HANCOCK: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: How much would you save in
space if you were to reduce the drive-through window to one and a
bypass? Twelve feet?
MR. HANCOCK: Actually, the aisle width for a drive-through
is 10 feet.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: So you'd save 10 feet plus the
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September 7, 2006
physical structure that occupies the surrounding area. So maybe
about 12 feet?
MR. HANCOCK: Potentially, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: So that would be a
consideration that we might want to relate to, because that would
enable the building to drop back some distance and provide you some
additional space that might otherwise not be there. And so I just
bring that to your attention as a thought.
Would you also go to the first ones that you had there? Let's
see. Well, that's pretty much a standard, that one, from what I've seen
around. And it's an attractive building, obviously. And we'll hear
more about that.
Perhaps you could go to the second one. That might be where
my question was.
Well, it might be more appropriate for transportation to answer
this, but I'm going ask the question anyway. You made the point that
the opening on Wilson would be equal to the opening -- and I saw that
in the latest one that you had -- the vehicular opening, the space, the
entrance/exit, would be across the way from the other.
And I was just curious, is that something that you're compelled
to do? Because it strikes me as odd that you'd want people trying to
get across the way to maybe zip across traffic. Is that something that
you're required to do?
MR. HANCOCK: Yes, sir, that is actually a requirement in the
Growth Management Plan.
COMMISSIONER MORRAY: Okay. Then I shall ask the
question of Mr. Casalanguida to find out why that sanity works.
I was fascinated by -- the staff report does clearly indicate a
strong, strong desire to see the buffering in. And I think for good
reason. With that smaller building that you intend, how -- what
would be the maximum size structure that you could put on that other
little piece?
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MR. HANCOCK: Depending on the use, which as you
understand drives the parking, it's going to be maybe as much as five
or 7,000 square feet.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Okay. The reason I asked that
question is when I reviewed all of the SIC code opportunities there, I
said to myself, wow, this is -- I mean, are you really interested in
holding every one of those open for a chance to put a gas station or
whatever?
MR. HANCOCK: At this point, if there's a particular use in the
PUD that you feel is objectionable to the site, we're open to
discussing that. What we were trying to do for simplicity sake is
mirror the C-l to C- 3.
And in all candor, when this rezone began, Walgreen's was not
at the forefront. And as the rezone proceeded that was solidified in
assuming successful -- the success of this rezone, the property then
will close to Walgreen's, and it will be their decision. So we're
certainly amenable to discuss that with you.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Well, more so, if I may, I
wonder, and we'll find out when the public speakers get the
opportunity, whether or not they fully understand the impact of
allowing -- or agreeing to the SICs that you have brought forth there,
because it gives you opportunities that may very well be welcome in
the community.
But I would be interested in knowing what the community has to
say about that, because there seems to be very few that you're not
going to do, if given a chance. So the only limitation then would be
the size of the structure possible.
So those are my only two points there. And I'd like you to
evaluate the question I raised with you with regard to that driveway
there, because you could save about 10 or 12 feet, and that would go a
long way to helping you accomplish both ends, I think.
MR. HANCOCK: Yes, sir. Thank you.
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September 7, 2006
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Mr. Schiffer?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Do you have a copy of the site
plan you showed? Not the Exhibit A but the other one.
MR. HANCOCK: The Walgreen's plan?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Yeah, do you have a hard copy,
2436?
MR. HANCOCK: I do not. I have an eight-and-a-halfby 11
that I could put on the visualizer to zoom in, if that helps.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Do you have one I could look
at in my hand?
MR. HANCOCK: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: The visualizer doesn't work.
MR. HANCOCK: Today's technology we've all but eliminated
foam core from our presentations.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Such a pretty piece of paper.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: And that's it. We can go on
with it. Let me just look at this.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Do you have your magnifying
glass, too?
MR. HANCOCK: I will take note that I'll bring at least 11 by
17's in the future.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Are you waiting for me? Oh,
no, don't wait for me. I just wanted to look at it.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Anyone else that wants to
speak on this?
COMMISSIONER CARON: I'll wait until everybody's had a
chance to weigh in.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Seems like it's your chance.
Goon.
COMMISSIONER CARON: I said I'll wait until the public
weighs in.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: I then think we ought to talk
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September 7, 2006
to staff.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Oh, I did have one other
question.
MR. DeRUNTZ: For the record, Mike DeRuntz, Principal
Planner with the Department of Zoning and Land Development
Review.
The -- as was mentioned, that this petition did hold a
neighborhood information meeting and it was well attended. It was on
April 11 th, as mentioned in the staff report, and there was quite a few
questions that was asked. And as was stated, it was well received,
the zoning proposal, and the desire for this type of a service in this
particular area.
Comprehensive Planning has reviewed this rezoning request and
reviewed the document and found it to be consistent. Transportation
has reviewed it and they've also found it consistent with the
transportation impact study -- or generation report that was prepared.
Environmental reviewed it as well. Utilities is requesting that a
well site be proposed, and they have identified that on the plan.
And the -- let's see, I don't think it shows on this slide here, but
-- yeah, this area right here, shaded area here is the proposed well site.
There's an existing well site that adjoins it here, but county utilities is
desiring an additional well site.
I did want to, for the record, say that there is a typographical
error on Page 20, on number six. It should read Snowy Egret Plaza
CPUD instead of Naples Daily News. A typo error.
The staff is -- has recognized that this proposed language in the
transportation section is contrary to the Growth Management Plan
neighborhood center, commercial center requirements in the Golden
Gate master plan, and it is recommending that the planning
commission stand by those requirements and have the 25-foot
requirement for landscaping along both the frontages there.
I do want to also bring it to the Planning Commission's attention
Page 1 7
September 7, 2006
that there may be a conflict also with the drive-through in the
requirements in the Growth Management Plan. It talks about
drive-through establishments shall be limited to banks with no more
than three lanes.
They do state on -- in the PUD document, 5.8E, that -- banks
and pharmacies. We may want to put that as a condition that it be
limited to the banks, but I think that we need to get more clarification
from Comprehensive Planning on that issue, specifically, and we
could report that back to the Planning Commission.
Weare looking right now at the PUD document and not the
Walgreen's site. Although the Walgreen's site is something that's real
important, and that's what the people are really looking for, and the
property owner is -- has made extensive contact with the Walgreen's
and they're wanting to purchase this property and go in there. And
there's definitely a need in the Estates, that's why we have these
neighborhood centers in the Growth Management Plan. But just for
the record, I think that we need to incorporate that as one of the
conditions for clarification.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Mr. Murray?
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Good morning.
MR. DeRUNTZ: Morning.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: There was several issues, and
one of them was massing. And when you spoke of that, of course
you're talking about the entire building occupation, the footprint. But
what is it that should be envisioned for that area? How much of a
reduction; 20, 30, 40 percent? If you had your druthers and you could
have a building on there, what is the delta of the problem, if you will?
MR. DeRUNTZ: It is the area, the lines of the building, the
height and the length. We were looking at, I think -- the intent of this
commercial center area, as identified in the comprehensive plan, was
that it would more or less blend into the area, which is predominantly
residential. And this is more of a larger box instead of broken up in
Page 18
September 7,2006
scale on roof lines. It could possibly, you know, soften that up or
lessen that.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: All right. What I understand
you to say then, the Growth Management Plan intends that there be
mom and pop type of environment or a local limited general store.
But a well-known chain has established its logo, has established its
format. So the Growth Management Plan you're saying in this case
doesn't consider, so it would be an exception or a deviation to put in
a standard product.
Or you are saying to us that you are advocating that we suggest
that they modify it tremendously to reflect more of what the area
intends?
MR. DeRUNTZ: Yes, sir. It's not exempting a chain or
anything like that, a national company coming in there. It's just
fitting into the character of the neighborhood.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Okay. And I think I
understand you now.
I wanted to talk about the wellfield also. The wellfield is
adjacent on the property. Now, you attended a meeting with all of that
team of those individuals, so Mr. DeLony's representative was there.
Did they express a need specifically for that wellfield that they want to
put in there, that parcel of property they want dedicated?
MR. DeRUNTZ: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Why did they do that? What
did they say is their basis?
MR. DeRUNTZ: The need for additional water and the --
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: There's one directly adjacent,
right?
MR. DeRUNTZ: Yes, sir.
And it would increase create the capacity and the demand.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Okay. I'll accept your answer,
even though I question that.
Page 19
September 7, 2006
The single lane and bypass, and you're saying that the GMP
doesn't allow for it, except for banks.
MR. DeRUNTZ: That's what it says.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Also, I think, we want to
facilitate for our community's ease of our operation.
MR. DeRUNTZ: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: So we would have no problem,
if my fellows here agree.
But would you think that, when I raised the question before
about the single lane and the bypass as opposed to the double lane
and bypass would get that space that you need to allow for both the
road and the buffering?
MR. DeRUNTZ: I think that's a good suggestion.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: It's a point that's well taken, is
it?
MR. DeRUNTZ: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Okay. All right, those are my
questions, thank you.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Thank you.
I'd like to talk to the transportation department, Mr. Scott.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Good morning, Commissioners. Nick
Casalanguida. I was the one who reviewed this application, so I may
be able to answer some of your questions.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: I don't really have a
question but one. And that is, do you feel this road is satisfactory for
the job that's being done on it?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Yes, sir, it is. The capacity left on
Golden Gate Boulevard west of Wilson has remaining capacity on it.
And east of Wilson we are currently under the design phase and going
into construction probably end of '08, early '09.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Would there be enough
space for transportation area if the other party decided to do exactly
Page 20
September 7, 2006
the same thing in the same area?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Another party, meaning what, sir?
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: There's another party that's
going to try to do exactly the same thing almost in mirror what this
one has done.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: In one of the other corners?
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Yes, sir.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: If they work with us, there will be
space, sIr.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Okay. That's all I really
wanted to know.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: And I have one question. I
looked at that and I wondered -- I'm familiar with that corner. And
making a left from Golden Gate onto Wilson, and where that east store
is there, that's always a challenge. And I'm just wondering, opening
up that space to allow people to zip across under those traffic
conditions throws me. And you're saying -- the gentleman said that's
in our code that requires that?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: What we've done -- if you talking
about the Wilson access or the Golden Gate Boulevard?
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Wilson.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: I'll go through both of them with you,
because we reviewed both of them with the applicant.
The approach coming eastbound on Golden Gate Boulevard has
been restricted to a right in only, so that wouldn't be set up for a
weave to come out across.
The access point on Wilson Boulevard has been set up to line up
in the current condition with a project that's across the street. And
I've cautioned the applicant that this is only a PUD and we're showing
an access point. We may request that they push farther south.
In the future condition, that turn lane's heading northbound on
Wilson, maybe restrict that median opening to then having only a right
Page 21
September 7, 2006
in, right out.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: But he said -- and I thank you,
but he said that was per code. And I think -- could you just go to that
one, maybe you know how to use that thing there, and go to that one
page where he showed -- I think it's probably the third one down. I'm
not sure which one it is. Might be the third one down, I'm not sure.
Is that it? Yeah, that's it. Thank you.
If you look there at the bottom, it appears that somebody could
move from the south -- I'm sorry, from the east to the west, zip right
across. You're saying that you would not allow that?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: In the future condition, that's going to
be a closed median.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: That's what I wanted to know.
That struck me as awful odd that we would want to encourage that.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: That right now is in a two-lane
condition and there isn't a lot of volume coming up and down.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: I realize that. But once you
widen and once you do what you're going to do, that would be --
okay, then you made me feel better.
MR. SCOTT: Can I add one thing to the comment about
capacity? Obviously this is a PUD rezone. Right now it's consistent.
If at site plan development there isn't capacity for some reason, if the
proj ect doesn't move forward to the east, then we will say no at that
time but--
,
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Yeah. Well, that's an
expectation for concurrency.
MR. SCOTT: Right.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: And I'm sure that the developer
understands that. I'm sure you've made that quite clear.
That's it. Thank you very much.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Do any of the
commissioners have any questions?
Page 22
September 7, 2006
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Yeah, I do.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Nick, the right-of-way that
they're talking about, the future right-of-way, if you did claim that,
what would that be used for? Wouldn't it be mostly for drainage?
Would it be lanes, or what would it be?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Mostly for turn lanes and the
sidewalks that would be constructed as part of the improvement
project.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: The site plan, can you put on --
okay, it is up there. Is that showing the configuration before or after
the dedication you were looking for?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: It shows that right-of-way line is for
the dedication that we've required. But that configuration of the
language that's shown on Wilson is not -- is in the before condition.
But the right-of-way line, that dark line --
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: That line right there?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: -- is the future right-of-way line.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Okay, thank you.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: You're welcome.
Item #11
PUBLIC COMMENT
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Are there any public
speakers?
MR. BELLOWS: Yes, we have two registered speakers. The
first one is Pat Humphries, followed by Mark Teaters.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MS. HUMPHRIES: I'm Pat Humphries from the Golden Gate
Estates Civic Association. Six years ago we came to this board to
Page 23
September 7, 2006
approve a shopping center on the opposite side of the one in question
on the basis that it would be a Walgreen's. Well, it did not turn out to
be a Walgreen's. And here we go again.
I only met with these people once and it was on the site. It was
with my other board members. And at that time they said yes, there
will be a Walgreen's and a bank. Now it seems it can be many, many
other things.
They have not been to any of our meetings. We have very little
information on this shopping center, and we have to have a lot more
information and we have to have a lot more reassurances that this is
going to be what they said it's going to be. Thank you.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Next speaker.
MR. BELLOWS: Mr. Teaters.
MR. TEATERS: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. My
name is Mark Teaters, and I'm the president of the Golden Gate
Estates Area Civic Association. And I wear two hats today . Not only
am I the president of the civic association, but I also live right across
the street, basically, kind of catty-corner, if you can look at the map.
Just south on Wilson -- or just to the south of where this property is,
there's one across the street, there's one house, and mine is the second
house in. So we're going to be looking at this across the street.
We really don't have a problem with the project as it's been
presented.
Now, the people have been great. We went out and we put a
table out on the side of the road at 8:00 one morning and they came
out there and we all had coffee and stood around and looked at what
was going to happen, and they gave us their rendering and a couple of
other things. And we kind of had an agreement at that point in time.
There was going to be a Walgreen's, then there was going to be a
bank. Of course some things have changed a little bit.
I spoke with Mark Strain yesterday, and some of the things that
we're concerned about is the height limit on the tower. There is no
Page 24
September 7, 2006
--according to I guess the Land Development Code, there is no heights
limit for a tower, so we want to have a maximum height limit on that.
And also the old Florida style.
We also want to remove the language that says that the building
sty Ie and the facade would have the approval -- would meet the
approval of the GGEACA. What we want to do is we want to let the
land development -- the Golden Gate master plan component take
care of that. Because it states it. It's fine. It doesn't need to be
decided upon by our group.
Let me see, what else. Oh, the property to the west. We also
have issues with the permitted uses. This is the first time that I've
seen this. Mr. Murray, you were correct. And I would like an
opportunity to go through each one of these before we're done today.
The folks from the group have said that they would do that with
us, and we want to be able to go through -- we do this with every one
of these PUDs, and we've eliminated a lot of these uses before.
They're all pretty similar. Like for example, you've got the gas
stations and some of the other ones that I think are going to be
eliminated because of the wellfield anyway.
But I think there are some other ones in here: Group care
facilities, food stores, eating places with alcoholic beverages. Those
kind of things that are not consistent with being next -- right directly
next to a residential neighborhood, we want to take care of those
today.
So will we get an opportunity to do that here before we finish?
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Go ahead, you're the chair.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: No, I don't think we have an
opportunity to do it that direction. I think you have to deal with them
directly. Because we can't go through it, I don't think.
COMMISSIONER CARON: Well, there's no reason that we
can't continue this, absolutely. If there are issues to be worked out
between the association, and it's already here in their own PUD that
Page 25
September 7,2006
they want to work with the association, there's no reason why it
couldn't be continued.
MR. TEATERS: Well, can we -- is there a way that we could
just take care of this today so that they can move forward? Because I
do know that they want to move forward with this. We need this
badly in the Estates.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Would that be satisfactory
to you?
MR. HANCOCK: Yes, sir, I'd be happy to go through the list
here today and resolve that today.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Go ahead.
MR. TEATERS: Terrific. Okay, very good.
Okay, does everybody have a copy of the list in front of them?
You guys all have a copy of the list of the PUD --
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: We do, but it's rather extensive
and I think it would probably not serve us as well to go through that.
MR. TEA TERS: Could we take a break for 10 minutes and us
go through it and then we could deal the --
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: I would move that we continue
this portion of the meeting for a period equal to the time needed to
review and qualify --
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: We'll continue this meeting
for 15 minutes and give you a chance to get it done.
MR. TEATERS: Terrific. Thank you.
MS. STUDENT-STIRLING: If I might, I just wanted to state on
the record --
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Your microphone.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: We can't hear you.
MS. STUDENT-STIRLING: I'm sorry.
Under architectural, it's not -- it doesn't say that the association
has to give approval before site plan, because there would be a legal
issue about a private entity being involved in governmental approvals.
Page 26
September 7, 2006
It just says the developer shall meet with the Golden Gate Civic
Association to discuss architectural components. That's a policy
decision for you all to make.
MR. TEATERS: Very good. And we've already done that.
We've already had the meeting with them on that, so we're
comfortable with that.
MS. STUDENT-STIRLING: I just wanted to take care of that
MR. TEATERS: Terrific. Very good. Thank you.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: We're going to take a
15-minute break.
(A recess was taken.)
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: The meeting will come to
order.
MR. TEATERS: Thank you very much. We appreciate that.
I think that we have a consensus. We got together out in the
hallway, Mr. Hancock and the group, and we went through the list of
permitted uses, and I think we've eliminated some things that are
pretty common sense. And I'm going to let him go through those with
you.
But I just want to say in closing that we really appreciate these
folks coming and bringing us a service that we do need in that part of
the Estates. That intersection is actually the geographical center of
Collier County. So the nice thing about it is, we're not -- people
aren't going to be making trips going towards the east anymore. We're
going to hopefully have more people doing things -- I mean towards
the west. We're going to have more people doing things towards the
east, which is going to help us with our traffic problem and our road
issues. So thank you very much.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Commissioner Caron?
COMMISSIONER CARON: I just had one question. Did you
also figure out the height of the tower issue? Did you resolve that?
Page 27
September 7, 2006
MR. TEATERS: No, we did not. Mark Strain had suggested
that we go with -- what is the height, the maximum height of the
building, 35 feet?
MR. HANCOCK: That's correct, it's -- for the record, Tim
Hancock.
It's -- 35 feet is the maximum height of the building. If I were to
scale that tower, and I can get back to you with a more exact number,
it looks to be about 42 feet, maybe about a seven-foot elevation
difference.
MR. TEATERS: Mark said 45 feet would be just fine.
MR. HANCOCK: We like Mark.
MR. TEATERS: We like Mark, yeah.
MR. HANCOCK: I think we're well inside of that. And that
would not be problematic from an architectural standpoint.
MR. TEA TERS: Terrific. Whatever makes it easier.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Thank you, gentlemen.
There is another speaker.
COMMISSIONER KOLFLAT: Let's let Mr. Hancock identify
those.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Yeah, I wouldn't mind going
over what you guys did.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: I'm sorry.
MR. HANCOCK: I'm comfortable with any batting order, Mr.
Chairman.
The uses that we have agreed to eliminate and! or modify as
specified here are as follows: Under Section 3.3 of the PUD
document, eliminate Item A-4, automotive services.
Eliminate Item A-I 0 -- I'm sorry, modify Item A-I 0, food
stores, to read food stores, groups 5411-5499, excluding convenience
stores with or without gas.
Eliminate Item A-II, gasoline service stations.
And eliminate Items A-13 and A-17, which deal with group care
Page 28
September 7, 2006
facilities and individual and family social services.
And that's the extent of the modifications.
Oh, I'm sorry, thank you. I left out the dreaded lawnmower
repair. Item A-22 will remain as is with the removal oflawnmower
repair as a permitted use. The lawnmower repair business is sad
throughout the world at this moment.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Do any of the
commissioners have any other questions?
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: I'd like to hear the other public
speaker.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: I'd like to have the last
public speaker, please.
MR. BELLOWS: Linda Woody-McKee.
MS. WOODY-McKEE: Good morning, everyone. My name is
Linda Woody-McKee, and I'm here on behalf of my mother. She has
the parcels of property next to the construction going up. I saw
where, you know, where you have it all dug up and all.
And I understand you're going to put another piece, another
commercial next to her two properties, which is east. And it's unit 13
east, one half of tract 18, which is right next to this parcel. And then
13 west, 180 foot of the tract 19, which she -- my mother would like
to have that zoned commercial. I know you have to go through all
that, you know, to have that done.
But I just wanted to -- you know, we do want this Walgreen's to
go in, if that's what's going to go in. And this property also is going to
be going for sale, so hopefully somebody will purchase this. I'm
going to be putting the sign up today. But -- all right, that's all I
wanted to say.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: I have a question.
MS. WOODY-McKEE: That's it.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Question? Excuse me. What
Page 29
September 7, 2006
did you mean by for sale? What's going for sale?
MS. WOODY-McKEE: Well, these two parcels of property
next to the Walgreen's.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Next to -- not including this
property?
MS. WOODY-McKEE: Pardon?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Not this property. The
property that we're hearing now, that's not the one --
MS. WOODY-McKEE: Well, if you see right here, this one--
if you want to put it on the screen, I'll show you. Here's the project
right here, the Walgreen's. I'm not a very good speaker.
It doesn't have anything to do with this?
MR. HANCOCK: No.
MS. WOODY-McKEE: That's on the opposite side.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: "X" marks this site.
MS. WOODY-McKEE: What is the development going on in
the comer?
MR. DeRUNTZ: That's Wilson Boulevard Center. That's
already been approved in the PUD.
MS. WOODY-McKEE: Oh, well, this is the letter my mother
received in the mail.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: If you're going to speak,
please talk so the court reporter can hear you.
MS. WOODY-McKEE: I'm sorry. I thought it was this
property here. But this is the two parcels here, number five and
number nine. That would end in nine.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Excuse me, I can't hear you
at all so--
,
MS. WOODY-McKEE: Okay, the two parcels I'm talking
about is on Golden Gate Boulevard in Golden Gate Estates. This is
Wilson here. And there's a project going in right here. I don't know
what is planned on going in here. But we are -- we would like to have
Page 30
September 7, 2006
this zoned commercial next to the two proj ects that will be going in on
Golden Gate Boulevard.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Thank you very much.
MS. WOODY-McKEE: Thank you.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: There being no more public
speakers --
MR. BELLOWS: No more have registered.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: -- we will close the meeting.
Do I have any --
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: I have a question.
COMMISSIONER CARON: Are you going to have discussion,
the rest of us ask questions?
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Okay.
COMMISSIONER CARON: Mr. Murray?
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: I just asked -- you've had some
time, I think, to speak with your clients with regard to the issue of the
single rather than double pharmacy out, whatever that's called, the
outside service. Is there any problem?
MR. HANCOCK: Actually, Mr. Murray, there is. And the
problem we experience is that, as was spoken earlier, a lot has
occurred to get Walgreen's to the point they are today. If this property
is rezoned in October, it will be sold to Walgreen's in November. So
that's the time frame we're on.
Part of their approval process includes the drive-throughs as
shown on the sheet here today. What I think we have done, and I
think we have accomplished with the transportation staff, is that we
are going to maintain the 25- foot buffer requirement as we're required
to in the compo plan. That will not be reduced. We will remove the
language from the PUD that refers to any reduction or any
compensation for that. And we are reserving for donation the 15 feet
along Wilson.
At this stage, transportation is comfortable with that, and we
Page 3 1
September 7, 2006
will continue to work with them on any other needs that arise in the
future.
So I think we're able to preserve the drive-through lanes, if that
is in fact what gets built, and still maintain the 25-foot buffer. So at
this point I'm reluctant to give that.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Okay. And that's fine. So the
key here then is that the preserves will be maintained and you'll still
be able to work with transportation. That's what the record will
reflect; is that correct?
MR. HANCOCK: That is precisely correct.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: And I'm not certainly going to
push the issue if there's no reason to push it. But keep that in mind
that should there be a problem.
The area of the wellfield, how many square feet is that?
MR. HANCOCK: Actually, the wellfield protection--
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: The one that the county would
like to have you give up.
MR. HANCOCK: I believe it's 20 by 40. I gave my readable
site plan to Mr. Schiffer.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Okay, I have it in mind if it's
20 by 40.
Would that in any way -- if that space were returned to you,
would that in any way impact negatively or would it impact most
positively?
MR. HANCOCK: Because it's located within the 75-foot buffer
requirement, it would have no--
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: No meaning one way or the
other?
MR. HANCOCK: That's why it was so easy to give it up.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Okay. All right. That would be
it, thank you.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Nick, would you come
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September 7, 2006
forward, please.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Yes, sir.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Do you agree with the
statements he has made?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Yes, sir. I think what we're going to
do between now and the board meeting is look at doing a sloping
construction easement in that buffer, and we're going to talk with
compo planning and the county attorney's office. And I think that
would be consistent with the compo plan.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Thank you very much.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: You're welcome.
COMMISSIONER CARON: Excuse me, Nick, before you go,
you're planning on doing it within the 25- foot buffer?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: That buffer is meant as a space
requirement. Ifwe can do a sloping grading easement in that buffer, I
think that would accomplish both purposes and that might be
consistent.
In other words, where the road would end typically we need a
certain amount to grade down and meet, and if we can use that for the
buffer, I think it's consistent to have both uses in that buffer, and I
think it might be okay.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Let me follow up on that, Nick.
So that would mean that you would not need the dedication on
Wilson?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: No, sir, we would still need the 15
feet. But that additional 10 feet that would be required for the
roadway widening might be accomplished as a sloping construction
easement in that buffer.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: All right, go ahead.
COMMISSIONER CARON: I have one more.
If it turns out that that does not work out, would you -- would
transportation like a stipulation similar to what Mr. Murray has
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September 7, 2006
offered, which would be to take a lane away from the drive-through,
and that would give you 10 feet?
MR. CASALANGUIDA: Certainly that would help us. I think
we'll have that answer between now and the board. We're far enough
ahead in our design that we will have that cleared up by the time we
go to the board meeting.
COMMISSIONER CARON: Okay. Well, we can stipulate it
and if it's not necessary then it's not necessary.
MR. CASALANGUIDA: That's fair.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Thank you, Commissioner
Caron.
MR. HANCOCK: Mr. Adelstein, the final item I went to
mention that was raised during Mr. DeRuntz's presentation is there's
some question about the interpretation of drive-throughs, whether
they apply strictly to banks or can be applied to a pharmacy.
The civic association obviously does not have an issue with the
drive-throughs as they relate to this project. However, that may be an
interpretation that the board will have to take up on this petition. So I
don't want to leave that unmentioned.
The second part to that is that there's an application for the
adjacent property. But if it were to be approved out to the future, and
their representative is here today, it would have the effect of reducing
the 75- foot buffer that we have, and would make all these other
issues about right-of-way completely disappear.
So the application before you today is under the current rules.
Should that occur, it could have an impact where we could amend our
master plan to accommodate those things. I want to raise that not
because there's anything we can do about it today, but it's a potential
eventuality that may help solve some of these issues.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Commissioner Schiffer?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Just a question. In the Exhibit
A, you have a meandering berm. If your design doesn't have a
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September 7, 2006
meandering berm, should we remove that from Exhibit A? Or maybe
Mike could answer, would you be held to meandering?
MR. HANCOCK: I want to point out that the master plan is the
governing document that we're looking at here today. We get caught
in this issue of trying to provide as much detail as we can and then
being bitten by that detail.
The Walgreen's site plan and the Walgreen's elevation are shown
for informational purposes. We have committed to basically we have
to meander the berm to avoid or minimize the impact to any
vegetation within that buffer. So we have to have the flexibility to
move in a circuitous way through the preserve as a preservation
exerCIse.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: I mean, I was trying to help
you. I didn't want somebody saying the site plan you presented
certainly doesn't have a meandering berm, therefore, it would not meet
Exhibit A, therefore, you have a problem.
MR. HANCOCK: I can honestly say, it wasn't our idea to put it
in there, but that would not hurt us at all. We're committed to having
to avoid vegetation impacts in that area to the degree that we can, and
that's the purpose for it being there.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Okay.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Commissioner Caron?
COMMISSIONER CARON: Just one point, and that concerns
the other property that is coming forward for GMP amendment. This
board cannot consider that at all because we don't know whether that's
going to happen or not. So that can't reflect on any decision we make
here today.
Secondly, is the master plan, now that we're talking about it, the
one that you gave to Mr. Schiffer or the one that we all got in our
packet?
MR. HANCOCK: Mr. Schiffer requested the Walgreen's site
plan to review. But in your packet is the CPUD Master Plan. That's
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September 7, 2006
the document that will be attached to the Zoning Ordinances.
COMMISSIONER CARON: Then I believe Mr. Murray's
suggestion is a good one --
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER CARON: -- when we get to stipulations.
MR. HANCOCK: I would like to point out that dealing with
issues such as number of drive-through lanes, typically a zoning level
issue, we have to have a 25- foot buffer no matter what. And if staff
says at some point we're taking 10 additional feet of your land, we'll
have to deal with that issue at that time. And the repercussions fall to
the property owner, just as it would if the county were doing any road
proj ect.
What I hear from staff and we've heard today is that they're
willing to work with us with a 15-foot reservation, and that any future
needs we will continue to work on. And so if they come and take that
additional 10 feet, we're going to have to address that.
So rather than tying that to a drive-through lane today and
limiting our options, I would simply ask that there be some faith
placed in your transportation staff that they will make sure the county
gets what it needs and will work with us in doing so as we move
forward to the board.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: If I may, Mr. Hancock--
COMMISSIONER CARON: At this point, Mr. Hancock,
you're not even sure that drive-throughs are allowed, period, because
of the Growth Management Plan. So--
MR. HANCOCK: All the more reason to leave it as it is.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: And quite frankly, I'm prepared
to make a stipulation that may satisfy all of our needs. So we'll see
what happens.
MR. HANCOCK: Thank you, Mr. Murray.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: If I see you jump up excitedly,
we'll know I did the wrong thing.
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September 7, 2006
MR. HANCOCK: I'll try to control myself, sir.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: I'm going to close the
meeting and ask for a motion.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: I would make a motion to
recommend approval of PUDZ-2005-AR-7834, known as the Snowy
Egret Plaza CPUD with at least one stipulation, and that is that a
drive-through facility of either one or two use lanes and one bypass
lane be included to permit use by the neighbors benefiting from that --
let me just stop at that point. That would be the one stipulation I see
as being needed at this point.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: I'll second it. But I'd like to
add some stipulations.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: You may request them.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: In that last one, are you -- it
almost sounds like you're requiring them to have a drive-through lane.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: What I -- you're asking me a
question?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: No, well, let me go to the other
one. First one is that the actual height be 45 feet. In our Land
Development Code, actual height means to the top of everything, so
therefore that protects the tower.
That the architectural standards be as per the Growth
Management Plan.
That the uses that they mentioned be moved to prohibited uses, I
guess.
And I think it would be good if we support the pharmacy
drive-through. I know that it's a GMP issue. We can't touch it or --
MS. STUDENT-STIRLING: Well, I just needed to state that if
it turns out that it's inconsistent with the compo plan, then that
requirement would not be legal. But I believe it's up in the air at this
point whether it is or is not consistent. And the applicant is waiting
for some word from the Comprehensive Planning Staff.
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September 7, 2006
So you might want to make your stipulations subject to that
recommendation.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Thank you very much. I was
going to -- I want to amend that to facilitate that.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: You will accept the
amendment?
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: I'm about to modify it and make
the amendment myself. I was the one that made the motion.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: I understand.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: So, my -- subject to Growth
Management Plan approval, my stipulation was: Subject to Growth
Management Plan approval that may be determined at a later point.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Commissioner Caron?
COMMISSIONER CARON: Yes. As concerns the maximum
height, the maximum height of this building, the actual height, is
listed as 35 feet. That should remain. The only thing that goes to 45
feet is the addition of the tower. That gives them the extra 10 feet to
put that tower only on there. It's not that the whole building can
suddenly go to 45 feet.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: I mean, we have a zoned
height, which I assume is what's in the --
COMMISSIONER CARON: Is in their PUD.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: What page is that?
COMMISSIONER CARON: Is the actual height--
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Well, then they should change
the wording on that.
COMMISSIONER CARON: Mr. Hancock?
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Mr. Hancock, what is the
actual height you're building to?
MR. HANCOCK: Actual height of the building is at 35 feet. If
I understand the motion correctly, it's to cap the actual height of the
tower at 45 feet.
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September 7, 2006
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Well, what you probably want
to say is zoned height that's 35 feet, and the actual height is 45 feet.
Zoned height would be the height of the building as per, you know,
depending on the roof line.
But where's your development standards? They were here.
COMMISSIONER CARON: They're on Page 3-5 of the PUD.
MR. HANCOCK: Mr. Schiffer, what I'm --
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Yeah, then I think we should
change 3. 6F to be actual height -- I'm sorry, to be zoned height. And
then add an actual height of 45 feet.
COMMISSIONER CARON: For the tower only.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: For the tower only.
COMMISSIONER CARON: Yes, that's what was agreed upon
by everyone.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Well, what that means is that
the actual height allows any roof structures that are allowed by any
code so--
,
MR. HANCOCK: Mr. Schiffer, if I may, quoting from the
Growth Management Plan, and to ensure consistency, it states on Page
35 of the Golden Gate master plan that building heights shall be
limited to one story with a maximum height of 35 feet. This provision
applies only east of Collier Boulevard, which is what we're subject to.
What Mr. Teaters has raised is that the tower, under our
architectural standards, is not subject to building height. So the
concern was how high the tower itself can be.
So the Growth Management Plan limits our building height to 35
feet. And I think what we're trying to accomplish, and I'm not trying
to speak for you, sir, is that that tower not be more than 45 feet, as
measured the same as the building.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: We're trying to do the same
thing. I'm just trying to use the words in the Land Development
Code.
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September 7, 2006
MR. HANCOCK: Understood. And because there's a Growth
Management Plan limitation to the building height of 35 feet, the
document has to state that consistently. And maybe the easiest way
to do it is to add a caveat for the tower height.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Thank you. I would like to
hear the motion now where it is, so we're all agreed to what we're
doing.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Yes, let me -- I will restate, if
you will, the stipulation: That a drive-through facility by the one or
two use lanes and one bypass lane be included subject to
interpretation of the Growth Management Plan for the Golden Gate
area.
And that building height be no greater than 35 feet, as stipulated
in the Golden Gate Area Master Plan. And that a tower which would
reside within the structure shall not exceed 10 feet in height and be
proportional to the structure of the building.
Does that satisfy everybody?
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Mr. Schiffer?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: The way you worded it it
sounds like we're going to have it -- I think you said 10 feet above
that height. You don't really want a 10- foot tower.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Above 45 feet. Either way
you want to word it.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Within the structure no greater
than 10 feet above the height of 35, would be 45. And proportional to
the structure. So it actually might be less. That was my reason for
putting that on there, qualifier.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Is the motion satisfactory to
you?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Yeah, that's fine.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: And you second it?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Yes.
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September 7, 2006
COMMISSIONER CARON: You need to add the rest of your
stipulations into his motion.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Yeah, you're going to have to
-- I mean, the one about the architectural standards as per the GMP.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Did I not include that?
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: No, you didn't.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: I will include that.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: And then that the uses we
discussed would be moved to prohibitive uses.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: I didn't hear what you said, you
turned away from the microphone.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: The uses we discussed, when
they came back --
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Oh, yes, thank you. The SIC
Code, the restrictions that were placed upon it during this meeting will
become part of the record.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Anyone else?
(No response.)
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: All in favor?
COMMISSIONER CARON: Aye.
COMMISSIONER MIDNEY: Aye.
COMMISSIONER KOLFLAT: Aye.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Aye.
COMMISSIONER TUFF: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SCHIFFER: Aye.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Aye.
Opposed?
(N 0 response.)
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Carried unanimously.
We will take a 10-minute break.
(A recess was taken.)
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September 7, 2006
Item #9
OLD BUSINESS
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Any old business?
(No response.)
Item #10
NEW BUSINESS
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Any new business?
(No response.)
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: I move the meeting be
adjourned.
COMMISSIONER CARON: So moved.
COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Second.
VICE CHAIRMAN ADELSTEIN: Okay. We'll now be
changing our hats.
*****
There being no further business for the good of the County,
the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 11 :00 a.m.
COLLIER COUNTY
PLANNING COMMISSION
LINDY ADELSTEIN, Vice-Chairman
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