BCC Minutes 03/27/2020 E (Covid-19)March 27, 2020
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TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, March 27, 2020
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 1:00 p.m., in
EMERGENCY SESSION in Building "F" of the Government
Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Burt L. Saunders (via speakerphone)
Andy Solis
William L. McDaniel, Jr.
Donna Fiala (via speakerphone)
Penny Taylor
ALSO PRESENT:
Leo Ochs, County Manager
Nick Casalanguida, Deputy County Manager
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Crystal K. Kinzel, Clerk of the Circuit Court & Comptroller
Troy Miller, Communications & Customer Relations
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March 27, 2020
COLLIER COUNTY
Board of County Commissioners
Community Redevelopment Agency Board (CRAB)
Airport Authority
Emergency Special Meeting to Discuss Responses to
COVID-19 and Consider Declaration of Local State of Emergency
AGENDA
Board of County Commission Chambers
Collier County Government Center
3299 Tamiami Trail East, 3rd Floor
Naples, FL 34112
March 27, 2020
1:00 P.M.
Commissioner Burt Saunders, District 3 – Chair
Commissioner Andy Solis, District 2 – Vice-Chair
Commissioner Donna Fiala, District 1: CRAB Co-Chair
Commissioner Penny Taylor, District 4
Commissioner William L. McDaniel, Jr., District 5; CRAB Co-Chair
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON AGENDA ITEMS MUST
REGISTER PRIOR TO PRESENTATION OF THE AGENDA ITEM TO BE
ADDRESSED. ALL REGISTERED SPEAKERS WILL RECEIVE UP TO THREE
(3) MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
REQUESTS TO PETITION THE BOARD ON SUBJECTS WHICH ARE NOT ON
THIS AGENDA MUST BE SUBMITTED IN WRITING WITH EXPLANATION
TO THE COUNTY MANAGER AT LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF
THE MEETING AND WILL BE HEARD UNDER “PUBLIC PETITIONS.”
PUBLIC PETITIONS ARE LIMITED TO THE PRESENTER, WITH A
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March 27, 2020
MAXIMUM TIME OF TEN MINUTES.
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD
WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDING PERTAINING THERETO,
AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD
OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE
TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 2003-53 AS AMENDED BY
ORDINANCE 2004-05 AND 2007-24, REQUIRES THAT ALL LOBBYISTS
SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES (INCLUDING
BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE BOARD AT THE
BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY
ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING,
YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, THE PROVISION OF CERTAIN
ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY FACILITIES
MANAGEMENT DIVISION LOCATED AT 3335 EAST TAMIAMI TRAIL,
SUITE 1, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112-5356, (239) 252-8380; ASSISTED
LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN
THE FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DIVISION.
LUNCH RECESS SCHEDULED FOR 12:00 NOON TO 1:00 P.M.
1. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
A. Commissioner McDaniel gave the invocation
2. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
A. Update and Discussion on Responses to COVID-19 (Dan Summers, Bureau
of Emergency Services and Stephanie Vick, Director Collier County Health
Department). (All Districts)
Kathleen Marr – Presented for the Department of Health
Dan Summers – Emergency Services update
Paul Hiltz – President & CEO of NCH update, 300 beds available,
drive-up testing will resume on Monday, March 30, 2020
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March 27, 2020
Dr. Zubin Pachori – Premier Patient Partner at NCH & Physicians
Regional asks to pass this resolution to prevent deaths
Dr. Cesar DeLeon – Collier County Medical Society is in favor of a ‘stay
at home” order (membership of 650 doctors)
Dr. Monica Woodward – wants the BCC to say no to the resolution
Sheriff Rambosk – Update; FWC will close Keewaydin Island; anyone
violating orders there is a $500 fine and up to 60 days in jail
Public Comment:
Patricia Drow – Vote no on this order and use common sense
Crystal Gabbard – Right to life
Alfie Oaks – Not in favor of the order
Steve Bracci – Governmental Limits of Authority
Sam Saad III – Reconsider by adding Real Estate businesses to the order
Chris Riching – Section 8, I – Appliance repair
Lauren Melo – NABOR not in favor of the order
Patrick Dearborn – Reserves his right to speak
Rep. Byron Donalds – The order not constitutionally sound
Tom Conroy – Not in favor of the order
Keith Flaugh – Not in favor of the order
Rich Yovanovich – Business needs to go on in a safe way
Bob Rommel – Not in favor of the order
Thomas Turner – Not in favor of the order
Jacob Winge – Balance the need for the medical community as well as the
economic community
Carolyn Johnson – Goodwill Industries offering to help with distribution and
keep them as an essential service
Terri Caspersen – Medical needs for the public
Dean Sarns – Medical Equipment
Derek Verderamo – First Pawn and Pine Ridge Pawn Section 8, G
John Dalia – Pawn Ridge Pawn
Jose Nunez – Not in favor of the order, Pawn Shops are essential services
Eric Solomon – First Pawn
Tom Henning – Not in favor of the order and allow the governor to decide
Antonia Demornay – Suspend mortgage and rent payments for those
employees out of work
B. Recommendation to Consider Declaring a Local State of Emergency for
Collier County. (All Districts)
Motion to do away with any Stay at home order and follow the CDC &
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March 27, 2020
Governor’s guidelines - Approved 5/0
3. ADJOURN - Consensus
Inquiries concerning changes to the Board’s Agenda should be made to the County
Manager’s Office at 252-8383.
March 27, 2020
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MR. OCHS: It's time to call the meeting to order, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right, Mr. Ochs and members
of the Commission. The emergency meeting will please come to
order.
We're going to start off as we normally do with the pledge.
Before we do that, Mr. Solis, you're in the room there and you're vice
chair, and I think when we get to the public hearing part of this, I
want to hand the gavel over to you to conduct the public hearing.
Then once you close the public hearing, I will retrieve the gravel.
But I think your being in the room will make the public aspect of this
go much, much more smoothly than if I tried to it do from the phone.
Is that acceptable to you?
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Absolutely. Thank you. Be glad
to.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
MR. OCHS: Mr. Chairman, just so you know, we have three
members of the Commission physically present in the room.
Commissioner Solis, Commissioner McDaniel, Commissioner
Taylor, and I believe Commissioner Fiala has joined by telephone; is
that correct, Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. Okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. So we have all five of us
present. Then let's start off, Commissioner McDaniel, if you're
willing to do a prayer, I think that would be most appropriate under
the circumstances, and then lead us in the pledge.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: If you'd all bow your heads
with me, please.
Heavenly Father, we ask for your blessings upon our
proceedings. Father, we ask for you to continue to remind us that it is
with your guidance that we will maintain humility, that you have a
greater plan for us, and that with your guidance we will be managing
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through these circumstances as a humanity.
Father, we ask us -- we ask that you continue to remind us to be
thankful for the many blessings that you bestow upon us every single
day. And, as always, Father, please keep close our first responders,
our military, and the people who are on the fight -- on the front lines
fighting this invisible enemy. And in Thy name I pray. Amen.
With me, ladies and gentlemen.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you very much,
Commissioner McDaniel.
There are two items on our agenda, and it's very important that
we continue to update the public on things that are happening, and so
we've asked Dan Summers to provide a report, and Kathleen Marr,
who is the preparedness coordinator for the Department of Health,
will be assisting and making comments on behalf of the Department
of Health. And we do have Ms. Vick, Stacey [sic] Vick on the phone
in case there's anything that we need to ask of her as well.
So with that, I'll turn this over to you, Mr. Ochs, to coordinate
the presentation of our staff and the Department of Health.
MR. OCHS: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll move directly to
Mr. Summers to begin the briefing.
MR. SUMMERS: Commissioners, good afternoon. For the
record, Dan Summers, Director of Collier County Bureau of
Emergency Services and Emergency Management.
As we have in our routine, I'll, today, pass this over to Kathleen
Marr who manages our emergency preparedness and speaking for
Department of Health Collier, and speaking with and in coordination
with Administrator Vick.
So, Kathleen.
MS. MARR: Good afternoon. Kathleen Marr for Department
of Health Collier.
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I'm just going to go ahead and give a situation update on our
current status in Collier. It's a little bit different than the slide. I can
tell you that currently as of 12:00 p.m., we have 81 cases in Collier
County; 71 of those are current residents, and 10 are nonresidents.
We have 29 travel related, 31 are definitely community acquired, and
25 still to be determined.
In that age group, it extends anywhere from age 17 to 93 with
the average age being 56. The total Florida resident cases are
2,765 -- excuse me. Thirty-five are total Florida deaths documented.
In the United States we're at 86,012 with total deaths at 1,301.
Obviously, our current strategy is to do the best we can to slow
the spread of this particular virus in our community. We are actively
testing individuals who are symptomatic who meet the high-exposure
criteria on DOH and, obviously, we're making recommendations for
social distancing.
Other social behavior that we are actually strongly encouraging
is what we're doing today in this room, is having people at least
separate by six feet. We determine close contact as within six feet for
more than 30 minutes. We want people not to meet in groups greater
than 10 in a closed space in meetings such as this.
Frequent washing of hands, and we mean really washing your
hands, the top of your hands, in between the fingers and also thumbs.
This particular virus does not like soap. That's one of the simplest
things that every resident in this county can do. If soap and water is
not available, hand sanitizer at least 60 percent alcohol.
We want to make sure you cover your coughs and sneeze. If
that's now -- if you do not have available tissue there, go ahead and
cough into your sleeve. This virus dies faster on fabric versus hard
surfaces. But if you cough or sneeze, it can land on a hard surface,
and it can last there for days. So cleaning your space is important,
too.
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I saw people bumping elbows today. Nobody was shaking
hands, and I applaud you all for that.
Most-at-risk individuals of great concern, especially for Collier
County with our elderly population, individuals over age 65 with
what we call comorbidities, so if you have any cardiac disease, lung
disease, if you are immunocompromised, particularly those under
treatment for cancer. We plan to continue testing with the help of our
local partners and the hospitals that are testing and also at our
community center, the Healthcare Network of Southwest Florida.
We are trying to test as many people as we can.
Obviously, we have significant outreach on the education
component. Our PIO officer has been actually submitting reports
twice a day with information that's on the State of Florida DOH
website.
Significant challenges are -- for us in this county is personal
protective equipment. We are fortunate to have some local caches.
We've been able to support the first responder and receiver
community and also our own public health first responders, which are
our DOH staff, which are working seven days a week right now.
Also, we are working with referrals from the medical
community to improve testing that might be available at the hospital
testing sites.
Our contact investigation continues. Our Department of
Epidemiology is working seven days a week in order to do what we
call contact tracing. Each person must be actually interviewed to
determine who they had close contact with, and that can take hours
and hours to complete that. We are also augmenting that department
with additional staff.
We have a local phone bank that is staffed by registered nurses
and our health educators helping to screen and also to take many,
many calls from the worried well.
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Our Emergency Support Function 8, which is health and medical
for the county, is staffed by Department of Health Monday through --
I'm sorry. Now it's seven days a week from 8:00 to 5:00.
Obviously, there is significant fear in the community that we're
trying to mitigate with education and also testing when we have the
available equipment. We did receive a shipment of swabs this
weekend, and our testing has increased.
We are recommending isolation in certain cases aside from
social distancing. The CDC does have this site that we have linked to
on our FloridaCOVID19.gov site. If you do have symptoms, that is a
good site to go to and can help you make a decision on what you
should do.
That's it for me.
Dan?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And let me interrupt for just a
quick second as Dan Summers is prepared.
I understand that there may be someone, potentially Paul Hiltz,
from Naples Community Hospital there to present some evidence and
some concerns. And so if there's a representative of NCH or any of
the -- you know, any other hospital, Physicians Regional, if they
could come forward and be part of the early presentation. We want
to certainly get those folks back to their respective facilities.
So as Dan is making his presentation, if there's anyone that is
going to be making a presentation on behalf of the Medical Society,
on behalf of Physicians Regional, or on behalf of NCH, please come
forward to be part of the presentation; of course, maintaining your
6-foot separation.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: This is Dr. Susan --
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's fine.
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MR. OCHS: After the briefing, as I understand it.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: After the briefing, yeah.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I will send a text to Paul
to find out if he's coming himself as well.
MR. OCHS: Dan?
MR. SUMMERS: Commissioners, thank you. Just a quick
reminder that we've been on this as well from day one, as well as the
Florida Division of Emergency Management, our state director.
They are doing everything humanly possible with bulk buying
purchases. They, too, are struggling a little bit in the marketplace, as
you would expect, between areas that CDC and FEMA are
attempting to addressing -- or attempting to address, rather, with their
supply cache.
We are working with them. We have received a few small
partial orders, and we were fortunate to have resources here internally
that have bought us some much-needed time.
There is a tremendous effort going on around the clock in
Orlando. The National Guard is typically used in some cases to haul
this equipment. So we just want to let you know that their mission is
logistics related. There's no one carrying sidearms or anything along
those lines whatsoever. The National Guard is also augmenting some
of the screening done at the airports, again, with their medical
personnel from the National Guard working with Florida Department
of Health. So that's the component associated with the Military
support.
We want to remind you as well that another tool in our toolbox
is mass notification resources, and we're using those. We will let you
know, if and when we use those, if any additional information needs
to go out. But we do have that as well as our social media outlets,
our press outlets, et cetera.
The ongoing effort for PPE has been immense. We continue to
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look in the marketplace now. We continue to work with our state
partners. The community has done an excellent job of supporting our
hospitals, and we thank the community for that.
Without a doubt, I think as these PPE issues become
challenging, the state and the feds are saying, hey, look, you may
have to improvise. And I know a lot of volunteers around the
community have improvised with some alternatives to the
conventional masking and surgical masks and those type of things,
and that's still not off the table as we work to address this particular
demand.
So a lot of agencies supporting the hospitals. That's a good
thing. And we're also working with a number of private-sector
partners to see what else might be in inventory outside of what
FEMA, the state, and the national stockpile are attempting to provide.
Again, a great news story with what's gone on at Collier schools
with the food service. They were able to expand that service and
even do some mobile drop-offs in some of our community locations
that were transportation impaired. They've done a great job. They're
keeping great visibility. They're also passing out -- we put 6,000
flyers in their hands in order to use the lunch pickup location as
another location to provide emergency information for the families.
So a great job going on there and, certainly, along with their online
education efforts as well.
I'm not going to read to you the recap. We went over this the
other day, the general operations in terms of things that were open
and closed. Local states of emergency, we have posted that on
websites. That's been repeatedly shared around the community as
well with most of our operations being limited, as you are well aware.
Just a couple of great partnership efforts continuing of an
intensive blitz especially in the Immokalee community with
information, working lots of strategies. We have daily calls with the
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partners. Not everybody is happy about the -- you know, do we have
an overnight success story there, an overnight plan? It is certainly
evolving, but we have had all sites working really, really hard in
communicating and listening and explaining to partners preventative
health measures in Immokalee, and I think that's working really well.
Community Foundation, the Healthcare Coalitions have
provided hand sanitizing kits in Immokalee. And we continue to
partner with the Sheriff and our Road and Bridge Department for
message boards. That's going very well, and we continue to look at
additional sources for managing information re -- capability, rather,
in Immokalee.
I'll stop right here with the important phone numbers are
reposted again. Kathleen's team is certainly working this incredibly
hard, and we are -- I don't want to say we're steady state. We're
steady state in an incredible pace right now to make sure that,
logistically, we're supporting the community with the resources that
we can get as single-point ordering for the county. We're managing
that pretty well.
I've got the supplies and the commitment. I have no unmet
needs at the given -- at this present time, and we're working very hard
to support the community.
We have supported 58 agencies in Collier County with some
level of supplies, both internal from public health and internal from
emergency management to the tune of around 40-some thousand
masks have been distributed by our office in the joint efforts with
Department of Health. And I say "our office." We're a team. We
work down the hall from each other, so we're closely embedded in
partnership and working together.
So I'll stop right there, Mr. Ochs. Thank you.
MR. OCHS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Before we get to County
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Commission comments or questions concerning that presentation, is
there anyone from one of the health providers that has come forward?
MR. MILLER: Chairman Saunders, yes. Paul Hiltz has come
in the room, and I have a slip from him. I think you wanted to hear
from him.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes. And I want to make sure that
the medical providers have whatever time they need to deal with
what they want to present. So if it takes more than three minutes,
we're not going to cut those folks off. That's part of our presentation
on the current situation.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: And, Mr. Chairman, it's Andy Solis.
Also, I just want to make sure that Dr. Deleon is here from the
Medical Society as well, just to make sure he's in there.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes.
MR. MILLER: Yeah. I don't know that we have a slip from
him, but we were going to call him up anyway. I do have one other
slip. I'm told it's a Dr. Monica Woodward. Yeah. And I will check
for Mr. Deleon, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay.
MR. MILLER: And Dr. Pachori is also in the hall. So we'll
make sure I have a slip for him as well, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. Let's get some of those
folks, and then we'll get them back to their medical practices.
MR. HILTZ: Thank you, Commissioners, and thank you for the
invitation. My name is Paul Hiltz. I'm the CEO of NCH. And I
wanted to just give a quick update on our status as it relates to
coronavirus.
So far we've treated 20 patients since the outbreak. We have
discharged four from the Emergency Department and four from our
in-patient hospital all to home to self-isolate as they continue to
recover. We have 12 currently in the hospital.
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Our current status of supplies, our biggest need right now, we
think, is going to be for widespread community testing. The test kits
have been very difficult to get. The supply of those has been very
uneven, so we've been judicious in how we do community
screenings. So far we've not run out of test kits, but the supply is
low.
Our PPE equipment, again, we're being very judicious in terms
of how we use that, but our biggest concern is protection of the
physicians and the staff taking care of these patients. We're
continuing to get supplies in PPE donations and what we're
purchasing. I've been incredibly impressed by this community in
terms of the amount of people that have stepped up to donate masks,
gloves, and gowns, and so that's been very heartwarming. The
community has also rallied around the caregivers with lunches and all
kinds of donations, and it's been something to really see.
We have been advocating all along for social distancing, and we
continue to emphasize social distancing, hand washing, all the things
we just heard about here. And, as I said, we're interested in taking
care of the community and, at the same time, keeping our caregivers
safe.
Be glad to answer any questions if anybody has any. I know
there's a few doctors out here that would more -- have a little bit more
detailed knowledge.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's see if there are any
questions for Paul Hiltz, and then that way we can send you on your
way back to the hospital.
Commissioner Fiala, do you have any questions of Paul Hiltz?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No, no, I don't. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Solis.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I did want to ask, though, Mr. Hiltz
was saying something about we are really in need of masks and
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things. Didn't we just give a bunch of them, 150 or something like
that, to Lee County?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Ochs?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: They were test kits.
MR. OCHS: My information is those were test kits,
Commissioner Fiala, not masks or gowns. I'm seeing a confirming
nod from our Department of Health officials.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. Well, I'm sure if we did, it
was for good reason. But I just wanted to ask about it.
MR. OCHS: No, we didn't.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Solis, do you have
any questions for Mr. Hiltz?
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I do. I think one of the toughest --
well, I think the issue, at least for me, is -- in making a decision on
what we're going to do today, is getting enough information from the
experts, you know, that we need to rely upon. None of us are
physicians or hospital administrators -- for making the best decision
that we can.
Somebody had said to me today that, you know, it's an easy
decision to -- it's an easy decision to overreact. Well, I don't know
about the rest of you, but I don't think there's -- none of this is an easy
decision either way for us.
So, I mean, from the hospital administration standpoint, can you
help me understand whether or not, at least in your opinion -- and I'm
putting you on the spot, and I apologize, but this is where we're at. Is
taking additional steps something that will lower the risk of the
healthcare system not functioning if there's a spike in the infection
rate and hospitalizations? I mean, this is the question for me.
MR. HILTZ: Really complicated question for sure, and I know
the clinical people are going to weigh it.
What we've been trying to do is keep nonessential people home
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away from the hospital and encourage all the prevention things that
we've seen here and to do it in a way that doesn't backfire on
workforce and our ability to take care of the staff. And there's all
these moving pieces around that topic of how do you make sure that
we can take care of our doctors, nurses, and caregivers that take care
of people with all the other moving pieces around businesses either
being open or closed?
And that's why -- I think it would be helpful -- you'll hear from
the doctors, I think, and get a little bit more detailed clinical
information. But we've continued to say that we really would like to
see a lot more community testing so we would know where the
outbreaks are, and we are going to continue to push to try to get more
and more PPE so that we're ready in case a surge happens.
Right now we're okay, but we're just trying to anticipate what
could -- the models are just all over the board right now. So we're,
you know, preparing for the worst and hoping for the best.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Taylor.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes. And I'm sure you're
familiar with Dr. Fauci's -- could you please explain what you took
from what he wrote about the change in the way we're looking at this
disease.
MR. HILTZ: Well, I haven't seen within the last couple hours
Dr. Fauci's -- and, again, these models seem to be moving a little bit
right now. New York is looking at different -- what's driving these
spikes in what they're calling the epicenter of this disease in New
York and in New Orleans. And that's -- but I haven't seen anything in
this last few hours.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No. It would have been earlier
this week. I mean, I understand that now they've changed or
relooked at again -- the CDC is looking at maybe reducing their
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estimate of morbidity or mortality for this disease; is that correct?
Did I read it incorrect -- did I read it correctly? You're the expert
here.
MR. HILTZ: Well, the mortality is the difficult thing to
pinpoint, because with the limited testing, it's so hard to know. If we
could test more people, we'd know what the mortality was. And
that's been one of the biggest question marks to me and to a lot of us
in the healthcare field is, what is the true mortality? Because we're
using these statistical models right now out of Pennsylvania. That
seems to be one of the models that people are -- but the -- but the
projections vary wildly. And just from my narrow point of view, I'm
trying to just make sure we've got everything we need in case it really
takes off.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Proactive stance?
MR. HILTZ: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Thank you. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And forgive me,
Mr. Hiltz, I may have missed it, but did you say how many beds you
currently have available?
MR. HILTZ: We've got about 300 beds available.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Plus or minus. And, again,
there's no absolutes with this. This is -- as you and I have spoken
before, there's a lot of fluidity with this entire process and
information streaming at us.
If you would care to address, there was an article that came out
about a quarantine for some of the employees of Naples Community
Hospital. It was represented, I think, in the paper of 80 people.
MR. HILTZ: That's around the right number. We've got some
of those people back now after they went through the 14-day
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self-isolation, and we're down now to around 50 employees that
we've got quarantined.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And the -- and if I recall,
the -- a large portion of those folks were from the first two positive
cases that came to the hospital before we had all of the necessary
protection procedures in place.
MR. HILTZ: Right. That was early on, and we've gotten a lot
better at this now with the tents outside the emergency departments
and treating more people as if they are, in fact, infected.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And one last question before
you go. And I'm -- with regard to the data -- and you and I have
talked about with regularly -- and the necessity for mass testing.
How is NCH prepared in the advent that those mass tests start to
become available? Do you have the equipment, staff, and capacity,
or do you, as Commissioner Saunders said, need to get to taking care
of our community?
MR. HILTZ: Well, I think we would love to be a part of it. I
don't think NCH could be the entire solution to mass testing. But we
have a process. We've got some of the personnel, and we've got
some tests. But if we want to do widespread community testing, it
would probably need to be a joint effort.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Very good.
MR. HILTZ: And we'd love -- we're here to serve the
community. We'll do whatever we can to help. And, again, I
appreciate the invitation to be here and appreciate what you're doing
for this community.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I have just a couple quick
questions. In terms of ICU, intensive care units, I had a conversation
with the Paul earlier today, and my understanding is that you have
generally about a 70 percent occupancy with your typical ICU beds
March 27, 2020
Page 16
because of just regular folks being ill, and then you have the ability to
open up 54 more ICU beds, which would give you about 70 or so
available ICU beds. I want to make sure that we understand that
number. And then the second part of this question is in terms of
ventilators. My understanding is that you are pretty well stocked
with ventilators for any major illnesses that may develop.
So if you could comment a little bit on ICU beds and ventilators,
because I think that's critically important to folks that may come
down with this.
MR. HILTZ: Right. Thank you for that. So, yes, right at the
present time we do have capacity in the ICU and actually have --
we've just ordered more ventilators and we had, again, some nice
community members step up and have donated the money to
purchase, even, some additional ventilators. And, again, we're trying
to prepare for the worst. But right at the present time, we're in good
shape as it relates to ICU beds and ventilators.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. And I really appreciate your
being here. And unless there are any other comments or questions
from the Commission, I would suggest that you head on back to
NCH.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Could I ask one more question?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Sure.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I don't know if he'll have the
answer, but are both hospitals testing, or is only NCH doing the
testing?
MR. HILTZ: We have suspended at both hospitals the testing
but we will resume the drive-up testing on Monday because we got
more test kits in, so...
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I meant "both" meaning also
Physicians Regional. Are they testing?
MR. HILTZ: I don't believe they are testing.
March 27, 2020
Page 17
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: So just to clarify, Mr. Chairman, so
there's no testing until Monday?
MR. HILTZ: No drive-up testing.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: No drive-up testing.
MR. HILTZ: Yes. So these would be what we call the worried
well or people that would like a drive-up testing. We did it as a
community service for free. We did 40 a day with appointment, but
we were trying to -- we're trying to manage our testing -- free testing
with our supply chain. As we've gotten more test kits in, we're going
to open that back up for another week, and we'll continue to monitor
the supply of the testing kits.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: So there's still testing going on in
the hospital if somebody meets the criteria or --
MR. HILTZ: Oh, yes, yes. That's why we suspended. We
wanted to make sure we had test availability for people that were
truly sick and symptomatic in the hospital.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Sorry. Mr. Chairman, with all
due respect.
So the drive-in testing were for folks that just were worried
about whether -- they didn't have a prescription in hand?
MR. HILTZ: They did have a prescription. But the term has
been used, the "worried well." They had a prescription, but they
weren't in a hospital.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay. Very good.
MR. HILTZ: So I used a term there that's maybe not that
accurate, so...
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That's fine.
MR. HILTZ: But thank you.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: They had a prescription from a
doctor, correct?
March 27, 2020
Page 18
MR. HILTZ: They had a prescription from their doctor.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That is still a requisite of
getting a test.
MR. HILTZ: Yes.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You prequalify with your own
physician or healthcare --
MR. HILTZ: And that's really, again, to manage a limited
supply of testing to be prudent about what we're doing.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you, Paul.
MR. HILTZ: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, Troy Miller, for the record.
Yeah, we have another doctor. I'm going to not say the last name
right. Pachori. He's on his way in from the hallway now.
Please, Doctor, right here.
And for our court reporter that's doing this remotely, could you
spell your first and last name, please.
DR. PACHORI: Yes. First name is Zubin; that's Z-u-b-i-n.
Last name is Pachori, P-a-c-h-o-r-i.
MR. MILLER: Into the mic, please.
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir. Please pull that microphone closer.
Thank you.
DR. PACHORI: So thank you for having me on. I appreciate it.
I actually rounded this morning; saw patients in the hospital. Came
here to give my viewpoint from the front line, so to speak, of dealing
with this disease.
Zubin Pachori. I'm Managing Partner for Premiere Inpatient
Partners. We are a hospital medicine group that provides inpatient
care for patients at NCH and at Physicians Regional, so at all four
hospitals in the county.
March 27, 2020
Page 19
We are the ones who will take the patients when they come into
the ER, and the ER physician says, hey, look, this patient is sick
enough to be admitted to the hospital. So docs, myself, are the ones
who get called to take care of these patients, and we take care of them
with the rest of our hospital team, our ICU docs, our specialists, and
our fantastic nurses and techs.
I've been reading in the community about a lot of falsehoods that
are commonplace. I hear them from my own family. I hear them
from my own friends and neighbors. And I'm trying to educate them
about what little we do know about the corona/SARS virus two,
COVID-19, whatever you want to call it.
Unfortunately, the science of pandemic and epidemics is not an
exact science. By the time you have all the answers in place to
answer all the questions we have, it's too late. You've killed
20 million people like the 1918 flu.
The science and treating this thing is you overreact because you
don't have the answers. You don't know.
We're hearing a lot of the euphemisms. I'm preparing for the
worst but hoping for the best. What's the worst? What's your worst?
What's my worst? What's his worst? The worst that we're seeing
from places like China, from Italy are horrifying, and we're no
different.
We're going to see this happen here, we're seeing it happening in
New York right now, we're going to see it happen in Louisiana, we're
going to see it happen in California, and I fear it's going to happen in
Florida.
So what is the worst? If we don't do anything, we're looking at
about 2.2 million American deaths by the end of the year according
to the Imperial College data from in London.
These models are changing. No model's perfect. There's a lot of
this information out there. It's tough to keep up with everything
March 27, 2020
Page 20
because a lot of this is changing so quickly, but we have to have an
idea of, hey, what is the worst that we're preparing for. If you look
around our county, we have a higher average age.
The very first hotspot in the country was in Kirkland, in
Washington, which is at a skilled nursing facility. We have about a
dozen of those in this county. If one or two of those get it, our ERs,
our ICUs, our hospitals are done. We're full. Forget the heart
attacks. Forget the strokes. Forget the commonplace stuff.
So that's why we're advocating for us to pass this resolution. I
don't know how long we're going to need to do this. This is going to
evolve as the science evolves. But right now if we don't take the
steps that we need to take we're going to be facing a disaster.
The average time span people are spending on the vent is about
10 days. That is three times normal than your average patient in the
ICU. So not only are they coming in sick, but they're sitting in the
ICU sicker.
I have a patient -- I got the very first coronavirus patient at
Physicians Regional. I had sent this patient home. He came back
crashing, ended up in the ICU, still there, okay. He's sick. He's
slowly improving, thankfully. But this is -- this is a disease that's
taking longer. And it's -- it's horrifying watching what's happening,
because we don't have any effective treatment.
This is not like influenza. If you're hearing that, that's incorrect.
That's one of the facts we know now. This is more infective. This
has a higher mortality rate than influenza. That's for sure. Not the
flu.
We've missed the time span and the window of opportunity we
had, like Korea, to do the things that South Korea did. That's gone.
That's why we're having to take more draconian measures of asking
to close down businesses, of social isolation, of quarantining because
we missed that opportunity already.
March 27, 2020
Page 21
The question shouldn't be whether we shut down businesses.
The question should be how long and for -- and how strict do we get
with this, not if we do it. The "if" shouldn't be a part of this anymore.
Questions?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's see if there are any
questions from the Commission. Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Solis?
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: No, thanks. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Taylor?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes, thank you. Have you read
the resolution before us?
DR. PACHORI: It was on -- I read a summary of it from the
CCMS, because I'm a part of the CCMS as well.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: How do we -- I mean, my job is
to protect the health, safety, and welfare of the people of Collier
County. That's number one. How do we protect people when we
have exempted -- we've allowed to stay open 37 business categories?
And that's umpty, umpty, umpty-ump businesses connected to each
category. How do we do that with this, what's before us?
DR. PACHORI: So I think the question to ask is how many
people are going to get infected and how do you do it? If you take
even a place like South Korea right now, they have infections.
You're not going to be able to stop a virus completely. What we're
looking to do is to slow it down, slow it down to a level where we
can manage it.
If I get two corona patients a day versus 20 corona patients a
day, it's a gigantic difference. That's what we're asking for is to slow
down the virus enough that not only can we deal with it in the
hospitals, but the science behind it, the studies, the treatment
protocols catch up so that we can effectively treat this.
March 27, 2020
Page 22
If we leave everything open, you're going to have a skyrocketing
amount of admissions in the hospital that overwhelm us, and then
simple things are going to start killing patients. If we can control
this, we can deal with it. You can eat an elephant in small pieces.
You can't eat him all at once. That's what we're asking for is to slow
this down enough so that we can deal with it.
That's what's happening in Korea. They're still having an
increasing number of cases. If you watch the number, they're still
getting cases out there. They're not going to be able to stop a virus,
but they've slowed it down enough that their medical system can
handle it easily, keep the mortality rates low, keep their ICUs free
and open and deal with whatever's coming their way.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. Doctor -- and, again,
you know, I've cautioned our folks on a regular basis about their
information sources.
I read an article yesterday that that scientist, I believe his name
was Neil Ferguson, has already retracted his original estimations of
that two-plus million fatality rate attributable to this virus.
And, again, we all have to be very, very careful. And I certainly
have the utmost respect for taking as many precautions as we
necessarily can. But there are already procedures in place to assist
with slowing this curve to lower the spread of this virus with the
CDC's recommendations and our governor's recommendations now
and the actions our community has already, in fact, taken.
Have you read that article, or are you aware that that scientist
who --
DR. PACHORI: So Neil Ferguson did change his estimates
based on an Oxford study that came out. Now, the Oxford study is
claiming that 50 percent of people in UK already infected, which I
March 27, 2020
Page 23
don't believe is backed up by data in places that have effective
testing. There's very few places on the planet that have that.
South Korea is one of them. South Korea got the infection
before UK did. South Korea's doing a lot more testing per capita
than the United Kingdom is doing. And they're showing a lot more
negative than positive. If you're expecting 50-plus percent of your
population to be already infected, then your data would back that up.
In other countries like Bahrain, which also has a high per capita
testing, and Iceland, which also has a very high level of testing,
you're not seeing that. This was a guess made by Oxford.
I'm not sure why Mr. Ferguson pulled back on his estimates, but
I think that study had something to do with it. And I don't agree with
some of the results of the Oxford study, because there really isn't
enough testing right now, and that's what we're seeing. We don't
know.
I don't think -- I think you can pick and choose your data. What
we do know is that in -- this is not influenza. This is more infective
than influenza. This is worse than influenza. A bad influenza year is
already a tax on our hospital systems. This is a compound on top of
it that's going to take a heavy toll in this county if we don't enact
some measures above and beyond what we're seeing in places that
already have hot spots, like New York.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you, sir.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Mr. Chairman, I've got a follow-up
question, if I can.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, Commissioner Solis. You're
recognized.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: So -- and I wasn't aware of this
study. I mean, the numbers -- Mr. Ferguson's estimates were reduced
by how much, or do we know?
DR. PACHORI: So the latest estimate that we're using from
March 27, 2020
Page 24
University of Washington is about 300,000 by August, and then that's
all they've been able to predict up to. They're predicting another
increase in cases in winter when -- so we don't know --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yeah.
DR. PACHORI: -- what that number's going to look like.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Excuse me. That's cases. That's
not mortalities.
DR. PACHORI: That's mortalities.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: This is -- I'm not sure if this is a
question or kind of a comment on this. I had seen different estimates
where the highest prediction was about 2.2 million, and on the low
side, using all methods for social distancing, that 200,000 would be
on the low side. So that is probably not too far off from what was
just stated about the potential for 300,000 deaths by the end of
August.
Do you -- I'm assuming, based on what you have said, that your
recommendation is that it would be better to err on being overly
restrictive and flattening the curve as it would be to not be restrictive
enough and have a surge of these cases. Is that a pretty good
summary of what you're telling us?
DR. PACHORI: So, yes. You know, what we're looking for is
this is not permanent. As the data changes, as it gets better, as testing
improves, we can -- we're going to revisit this, and we're going to be
like, okay, take the foot off the brake.
But right now we don't know what's in front of us, and we need
to brake. The estimates are all over the place. We're all quoting
numbers. We're all citing studies. But what we're seeing in actuality
in places like Northern Italy, which is one of the richest places in
Europe, it's an industrial zone in Europe that has excellent fact --
March 27, 2020
Page 25
excellent hospitals, we're seeing an enormous death toll.
Fifty percent of the people getting tested there -- and they're testing
only the sick -- are getting admitted into the hospital, and they're
having a very high mortality rate because they can't deal with it.
In countries that can deal with it, the mortality rate is low. Let
us deal with it in a way we can handle it. There's going to be
coronavirus cases here in Collier County. We just need to slow it
down enough that we can deal with it.
And once we -- once we know that, okay, we can -- we've got
some medications, we've got a vaccine on the way, if we have more
data, then, okay, let's get back to business as normal. As of right
now, we don't know that.
And another thing, we are actually testing at Physicians
Regional as well. We're testing in the emergency room. We don't
have a drive-up testing right now, but for our patients that are coming
in sick into the hospital, testing is there as well.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you, Doc.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. If there are no other
questions, thank you very much for your appearance --
DR. PACHORI: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- and we really appreciate
everything that the medical providers are doing. You guys are the
real heroes in all of this, and thank you for your service there.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, Troy Miller again, for the
record. We also have Cesar Deleon from the Collier County Medical
Society, as president, is making his way to the podium right now.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Great. Thank you.
DR. DELEON: Good afternoon. Thank you for the
opportunity. Past president of the Collier County Medical Society in
favor of a stay-at-home order. And the professional medical opinion
believes that COVID-19 is much different and much worse than the
March 27, 2020
Page 26
known yearly flu for the following reasons:
One, much more contagious with an average of two people
getting infected by every person who gets it. Pace of infection being
much more rapid than what we're used to. One of the reasons, we've
already seen hospitals in other areas become overwhelmed very
quickly;
Two, we have no vaccine to prevent it; therefore, more citizens
will fall ill. It is estimated that about 50 to 60 percent of us will catch
it;
Three, we do not have enough tests to know who is infected;
therefore, many infected patients are walking around our streets
without diagnosis despite the current recommendations;
Four, death rate is estimated between 2.5 to 10 percent, as it is
the current state in Spain and Italy. So it is very difficult to assess
300,000, 2.2 million. Every country has been different, from China
to Italy. If we expect to have any numbers in between, numbers
could be very wild.
Influenza kills 0.1 percent, to let you know. So even if it was
1 percent, it will be 10 times more. The Spanish flu had a death rate
of 2 percent. So we're looking up to a death rate of 10 percent as it is
in Italy and Spain;
Five, we currently do not have any medications to treat it;
Number six, it is more difficult to diagnose as it presents from
asymptomatic to full-blown respiratory distress and everything
between. I actually have had two patients that presented with
sinusitis. I happened to miss it. They ended up in the emergency
room because, after my 20 years of medical professional opinion,
they presented as something else. So there's a lot of people walking
around who actually may have it;
Eight, it will cripple our current healthcare system. It is already
at the brink of collapse with the lack of PPEs. We're not able to -- if
March 27, 2020
Page 27
we're not able to flatten the curve of infection. Presently, a
30-year-old nurse on a ventilator at Gulf Coast is -- on a ventilator
from being exposed at work. We cannot allow that to happen to our
healthcare professionals;
Nine, it affects the elderly worse but also affects the young.
Average age in our county is 57. We have been fortunate to have no
death so far, but this can change very quickly if we don't contain the
spread.
I highly respect our business community. We all depend on
them. But if we do not protect the health of our employees and
customers, they will not be there in the future to protect the integrity
of our businesses. If we don't protect our healthcare workers, they
won't be there -- there won't be anyone to care for the community
when the community members become ill. There's no future without
people. It is a healthcare crisis, not a financial crisis.
What will you do if you or your staff or your family get
COVID-19? Who will you -- how will you feel if the healthcare
workers can't take care of you because they are overwhelmed,
hospitals overcrowded with no PPE or sick?
Construction companies, my recommendation would be to
donate their PPEs to the healthcare providers instead of requesting us
to continue risking our lives.
We almost do anything and everything that's possible to save
lives. Money can be replaced after the crisis passes. We have
already done it multiple times in the past.
God bless you for what you do. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Same to you, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's see if there are any
questions from the Commission.
Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Excuse me. I had to release that
March 27, 2020
Page 28
button. No, no questions. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Solis?
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: No. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Taylor?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No. No, thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Just thank you, Doctor, for
what you're doing.
DR. DELEON: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And let me just -- you're speaking
on behalf of the Collier County Medical Society?
DR. DELEON: Correct.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. And what is the
membership there? That's 650 doctors?
DR. DELEON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. I want to thank you as well
for your service and get you back to your practice there. So thank
you very much.
DR. DELEON: Thank you. Blessed day.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, Troy Miller again, for the record
again. I have one other slip submitted from a Dr. Monica Woodward.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's go ahead and hear
that, and then we'll move on.
MR. MILLER: And then, yeah, that is the last, that I know of,
medical professional I have here in the room.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And then the Sheriff first.
DR. WOODWARD: I'm representing myself as a member of
the community. I have a medical practice in Collier County, so I'll
read what I have.
I would like you -- to encourage you to vote no for Resolution
2020-50. I'm a board-certified internal medicine, pulmonary
March 27, 2020
Page 29
medicine, sleep medicine, and formerly critical care medicine.
As an intern, I was required to work on an HIV floor in Newark,
New Jersey, and am very familiar with PPE.
I completed residency at UMDNJ in Newark and fellowship
trained at Jackson Memorial Hospital. I was there the busiest night in
the ER in Newark in the city hospital due to overdoses and suicide
attempts, which was sadly Father's Day, and not a bed could be had
on that annual event.
I have been responsible for 200 critical-care beds at Jackson
Memorial Hospital in Miami, and on some nights, as a senior fellow,
was required, due to staff shortages, to manage those 200 beds and
also had to clear 40 critical-care beds in one night for a cruise ship
fire many years ago. The engine room caught fire on a cruise ship
with at least 40 engineers and crew who were sent for critical care.
I was trained by a German professor who taught us, "Always tell the
truth, speak your mind, and say you don't know when you don't
know."
I moved to Collier County in 2003 and have been proud to say I
have been a resident and practicing physician here in Naples for 17
years. Full disclosure: I'm married to Mark Woodward of
Woodward, Pires, Lombardo firm, to whom Tony Pires is well
known to the commissioners.
Suffice it to say, I have many years of experience working with
ventilators, pulmonary patients, and critically ill.
In regards to the COVID-19 crisis, we are on about Day 11 of
the stay-at-home measures, school closures, church closures, and the
one-week restaurant closures. The beaches were also closed this
week, and I have observed that many of my patients are cautious, and
the community has been respectful of the 6-foot social distancing
measures and avoidance of large groups.
In medicine, we risk-stratify patients before they go to surgery
March 27, 2020
Page 30
as mild, moderate, high risk for perioperative complications. So for
this outbreak, we're not severe risk, because we're not New York
City, and we're not at mild risk, because we're not in Ozark, Missouri,
with a population of 20,000. And from the data I can see from the
Department of Health, we are probably at mild to moderate risk for
having an increased outbreak here mainly due to people coming in
from out of the area.
Future risk stratification is subject to CDC, and that's an ongoing
conversation with Dr. Fauci.
As many of you know, the 2018/2019 influenza season, there
were more than 490,000 hospitalizations and 34,000 deaths in the
U.S., but no one's up in arms about that.
If the goal of the commissioners is to avoid an attractive
nuisance, which is a legal term, you should have closed the beaches
sooner, and that would avoid the spring breakers from coming to our
beaches on Vanderbilt Beach.
A suggestion to deal with a public area like Keewaydin Island
may be posting on social media two sheriffs in riot gear under tents at
Keewaydin Island, which would be an excellent deterrent to keep
young people from congregating. And I heard this was effectively
done at the Great Dock Canoe Race one year.
I am aware that some of my Collier County Medical Society
members and colleagues in the hospitals are pushing for this order to
be passed, but from what I can see, most citizens in the county have
followed CDC and state guidelines, and few have tested positive for
COVID-19 relative to other areas.
Personal responsibility will be the best strategy to limit the risk
of infections anywhere, including Naples, Florida. We're all
practicing CDC guidelines, and we tell our patients, if you're sick,
stay home. Don't go to work. If you have chronic medical issues,
stay away from public areas. Maybe at home you're best. And if
March 27, 2020
Page 31
you're 65 and older, the governor has already given them a
shelter-in-place order. This will -- adding the order here will not add
to public health and may, instead, cause more unintentional
consequences like depression and isolation.
The hospitals should continue to test more, and we need more
data to make better decisions. You can always enact a
shelter-in-place order in the future, but for now I can't see that this
can add to the public health. And I know that each and every one of
you want to save every single life, but even when everything is
perfect, that is not always possible.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you. Let's see if there are
any questions. Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No, no questions. But I do want to
ask -- it probably wouldn't be this doctor, but one of the doctors --
how many people -- they always tell us how many people are ill now,
and it's up to -- to the 80s now. How many have recovered?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, we told the physicians after
they made their testimony that -- to go back and continue healing
patients in their practices, so I don't know that there are any of the
physicians still there other than Dr. Woodward.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Mr. Chair?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, I would love to know that
piece of advice, because if we know how many have already
recovered, you know, it would give us a good idea as to we've got a
way to treat them and we're doing a good job at it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Could Kathleen Marr answer that
question?
MR. OCHS: She's coming to the podium, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: While she's coming, let's see if
March 27, 2020
Page 32
there are any more questions for Dr. Woodward.
Commissioner Taylor?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Oh, Commissioner Solis?
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Nothing from me.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Commissioner Taylor?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Nothing from me. I just thank
you very much for coming in here.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Absolutely. Thank you again.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And also, I want to thank you for
your service as well.
Then let's see if we can get an answer to Commissioner Fiala's
question.
And, Dr. Woodward, thank you, and best wishes in terms of
staying healthy and treating your patients. Thank you.
MS. MARR: Hi. I want to remind -- Commissioner Fiala, I'm
going to try to answer your question. The Department of Health
twice a day releases a 55-page document that gives quite a bit of
detail on the number of cases that have been tested who were
reviewing and also, obviously, the deaths in the state.
There is some detail also on the CD -- excuse me -- the FDOH
dashboard, which is on our FLHealth.gov website.
I also would like to answer the question about the modeling that
the doctors have been referring to. I can tell you that yesterday our
surgeon general stated they are working very closely with the CDC to
identify a specific Florida model that should help us with some of
these concerns and estimates.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: That's correct. I saw that
same information.
MS. MARR: Okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you very much.
March 27, 2020
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MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, I'm sorry. Troy Miller, for the
record. Dr. Pachori is coming back in the room, I think, to try to
answer Commissioner Fiala's question.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right.
DR. PACHORI: Yes, we have had people who have recovered
from this after being diagnosed. But part of this is also -- some of
this is -- we're talking about mortality rates, but we're not talking
about morbidity rates. Morbidity rates are people who are going to
have permanent lasting effects from this, and this is probably going to
be your younger patients who are going to come in, get intubated.
They will survive the ICU stay, but they're going to have permanent
medical harm from this virus. So we don't know those yet, and we're
going to start seeing those in the future when we see our younger
patients affected by this, which is happening.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you, Doc.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you.
All right. I know we have a lot of people that are going to want
to speak in the public hearing part of this --
MR. OCHS: Mr. Chairman, excuse me. It's the manager. We
have Sheriff Rambosk here who would also like to address the Board
before you move into your public speakers.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Well, no, we're not going to
move into the public speaking until after we open up the ordinances
and have the County Attorney explain the ordinance. So we're a little
bit off from that. But if Sheriff Rambosk wants to speak now, that's
fine.
MR. OCHS: Thank you.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Good afternoon, Chairman, members of
the Board. Kevin Rambosk, Collier County Sheriff's Office, and I'm
providing you an update as part of the unified command along with
the Department of Health and Emergency Management.
March 27, 2020
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I just wanted to take a minute to give you an update on
observations and information that we have gathered since the last
time we met on Tuesday.
We've seen a reduced traffic on our roadways, at times
somewhat less than even out of season. Our businesses have been
complying, particularly restaurants, with the orders that they've been
given to close; restaurants and bars particularly.
We've had a very strong implemented plan by the Collier
County Public School system, and with the help of teachers, parents,
and guardians, our school-aged kids are learning now online, and
they are not in the streets. So that's important for all of us.
Keewaydin Island, as you remember, that was one of the areas
that we had significant concern last week. We've been in contact
with Florida DEP. They have given us a verbal notification of
closure of the island for this weekend. We'll be assisting FWC with
that closure. We will respond in our normal fashion. However, we
still remind people, as we mentioned the other day, that doesn't mean
you can hook up 100 boats five feet off the island. You should still
use common sense in what you're doing.
We continue to fly and observe the beaches daily. Our most
recent was yesterday, on March 26th. Other than a few stragglers
who, when we contacted them and explained what was in place, they
complied, there is broad compliance throughout the county.
I already touched on the bars and nightclubs. I want to really
thank the owners for their participation and cooperation with that.
General orders and guidance. In general, relative to the governor's
orders or even the CDC, once people understand what they're being
asked to do, for the most part, we gain compliance. In the few
instances that we haven't, when we've provided them more
information and what the options were, they have complied.
So, really, the bottom line for us is, you know, if you choose not
March 27, 2020
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to be compliant with any or all of the orders in place, there's a $500
fine and up to 60 days in jail. So there is teeth to where we are. And
that's the completion of my update for the moment.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, Sheriff.
Let's see if there are any questions.
Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No, no questions. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And, Commissioner Solis.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Just curious if you've actually
imposed any fines.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: We haven't had to yet.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Okay. Good.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Taylor?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Thank you very much.
I think you, sir, Sheriff Rambosk have a really, sort of,
boots-on-the-ground view of our community, and I'm very proud of
our community from what you just reported. That's fantastic.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: So are we.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner McDaniel.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. And thank you, Sheriff.
When you spoke to us on Tuesday, you were talking about regularly
flying the drones, and people seemed to be adhering to the social
distancing side of things. And I am glad to hear that we are
reminding folks that they're not supposed to be on the beaches at all.
So I thank you for that, number one.
Number two, how are you and our first responders doing with
reward to PPEs and contact with regard to cases and such? That's
question one.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: We're fully equipped with PPEs for
now. We, of course, keep continuing to look for them. We've
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probably got a month-and-a-half to two-months' supply, and we have
been supported by Emergency Management midweek last week for
additional things.
As far as coming in contact, we have very strict rules. We're
working together with Fire Rescue, and particularly EMS, who
follows those specifics so that we don't all encounter an individual
who may test positive and contaminate everybody.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Amen. And the last question,
if you -- and it's only been a few days, but if you recall on Tuesday
you reported that you've seen a 30 percent increase in domestic
violence since the -- since these closures have started?
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Well, over the weekend -- that was the
weekend report. We had seen an increase. That has gotten back to
normal throughout the middle of the week. We've actually done
work with the shelter and did some information out. And I want to
thank Linda Oberhaus for that. She's done a great job. So, yes, we
have moved forward with that.
And, again, sometimes, unfortunately, the weekends -- by the
end of the weekend, we see a lot more disturbances than we do on a
normal week. But we're going to continue to push that, and so far
we're back down to normal.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And, again, I can't say -- my
personal thank you, sir, for your leadership and what you're doing for
our community.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yeah, thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Sheriff, just one quick question.
At our last conversation on Tuesday you had indicated that -- I
believe the number was 80 firefighters and EMS, first responders,
had been sidelined because of exposure to the virus. Is that number
still valid, or has that changed one way or the other?
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: I believe that will be down. We
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haven't -- we have a call later this afternoon, and we will refresh that.
But I know that we had some of our members that have been released
out of that hold and back to work, so it's probably not as many. But
I'm still sure we're 50-plus at this point waiting for tests.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Well, I want to join my
colleagues in thanking you and the men and women that are first
responders that are doing a yeoman's job in this. As a lot of people
have said, you guys are the real heros keeping us safe. So thank you
for what you do.
SHERIFF RAMBOSK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Mr. Ochs, before we get into a
public hearing, I wanted to go through a couple comments and then
have Mr. Klatzkow spend a few minutes, or however long you need
to spend, to explain what's in the order, because that may alleviate
some of the concerns that some speakers may have. And so let me
start off by just saying that I did ask the County Attorney to draft this
order, and I want to thank the County Attorney's Office for their
responsiveness and the County Manager for his responsiveness.
And I believe that it's important that we listen to our medical
experts and do what we can to protect the public health, safety, and
welfare. And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to have this
hearing was so that we could hear from the medical experts. We've
seen the letter from NCH. We've heard from the Medical Society,
and we've seen their letter urging more steps for social distancing.
I want to -- this is a little bit old, but I want to read just one
sentence from Dr. Fauci. Now, this was on March 20th, and, of
course, things have changed to some extent. I don't think they've
changed dramatically in terms of what his position would be. But he
said, and I'm just going to quote, "I think we should do everything we
possibly can do, I mean, in all sectors because, obviously, as I've said
so many times, when you think you may be overreacting, you
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probably are not acting as forcefully as you should. So as we've
always said, we've got to try very much to stay ahead of the curve."
And we've heard from our medical folks that there is some -- this is
some concern.
Now, the benefit of this meeting is twofold. First of all, we're
letting the public know how important this issue is and how
important social distancing is. And I know a lot of people are
watching and paying attention to what we do. And the other thing
that is important just to keep in mind, we're elected to make hard
decisions, and this is one of those hard decisions.
If we go forward with the order, there are consequences, and we
have a bit of an understanding of what those consequences are.
They're economic consequences, and there are potentially benefits
from slowing or flattening the curve.
If we don't go forward with the order, there are consequences as
well. And we don't know what those consequences are, necessarily,
because we won't know what the infection rates are and those sorts of
things until after the fact. And so I felt that it was important for us to
consider all of these issues early on as opposed to waiting and trying
to catch up as the virus spreads.
So as I've said, I'd rather err on the side of being overly
restrictive than err on the side of not being restrictive enough.
The -- Commissioner Taylor you mentioned, you know, how do
we -- how does this improve things if you've got 30-some-odd
exceptions? And I want the County Attorney to explain what's in this
order, though we haven't had a lot of time to read it. It was sent out
yesterday. But I think the County Attorney can go through it, and
with your concurrence, I'd like for the County Attorney to spend a
little bit of time -- or not a little bit of time, but whatever time's
necessary, to explain what's in the proposed order.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Mr. Chair?
March 27, 2020
Page 39
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Before we switch gears -- I've got a
list of questions that I'd like to pose to the Department of Health,
before we switch gears from, you know, the medical issues and what
the medical professionals and public health people are saying to us.
Can I do that now before we get into the wording of the ordinance?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, absolutely. I thought we'd
already had those questions asked and answered. But if the Health
Department can get back up to the podium along with Dan Summers,
Kathleen Marr and Dan Summers, if they'd be available, again,
standing six feet apart, to answer Commissioner Solis' questions.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Thank you. I know that we were
trying to get the doctors back to work, so I was going to delay it,
but -- and I'll try to run through those really quickly, because I think
for me these are very relevant questions in terms of, you know, the
decision we're going to make. One is, where do we stand in terms of
the infection rate per capita compared to, say, like, Dade -- the places
where it's the worst? Dade County. And I'm assuming that is a
relevant issue.
MS. MARR: Well, we base it on population. What I can tell
you is that we are actively testing every day, so the expectation is our
cases will increase. So we try to plan for that scenario where the
cases would increase and what we could do now to help prevent the
additional spread.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: So -- I mean, so there's -- you can't
give us a number in terms of what our infection rate is compared to
the other areas where it's obviously much more significant than it is
here, is that what you're saying? We can't know that?
MS. MARR: What I can -- what I can do is I can get that
answer for you from our epidemiology experts at the Department of
Health, and we can get that information back to you today.
March 27, 2020
Page 40
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Okay. One of the things that
concerned me -- and correct me if I'm wrong, but the numbers that
you reported today, this is the first time that the community
transmission number is greater than the travel-related number.
MS. MARR: Correct, sir. It is in our community.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: And that is of great concern.
MS. MARR: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Right?
MS. MARR: Yes. It's easily transmitted.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I mean, that's the worst-case
scenario.
MS. MARR: It's easily spread. It is in our community. And
that's why we are trying to encourage people to please follow the
simple recommendations they can do and why social distancing is so
important, because we also have people that are asymptomatic. They
carry no symptoms with this, so it's hard to know who is actually
carrying the virus and who is not. Not everybody presents with an
obvious symptom.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Okay. And from a public health
standpoint, would a further reduction of interaction between people,
if it's that infectious, decrease the risk of a spike in the number of
infections?
MS. MARR: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: That's all the questions I had. And,
if I can, just -- I would just like to say something before I give up the
floor here.
One is that I think there's -- there are situations that -- around the
country that maybe we don't hear of. I mean, my brother is a surgeon
in Georgia and a hospital in Valdosta Georgia. And there is a small
town west of there, Albany, Georgia. And my discussions with him
this morning is that Albany, Georgia -- and I researched it -- is
March 27, 2020
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overrun with the virus. They are out of ventilators. They are out of
ICU beds.
It spread through the community there, and the medical
community before they could get control of it, and a significant
percentage of the healthcare professionals have now come down with
it, and they have a shortage of healthcare professionals.
So that -- the effect of that specifically to my brother, who's a
peripheral vascular surgeon, is that anyone in the Albany area that
requires surgery or intensive care or anything like that has to be put
in an ambulance and driven to Valdosta hoping they make it, and
some of them have not.
And I think that's the worst-case scenario, I think, that we have
to think about. We cannot disregard that that's a possibility, and
that's what happens when the system gets overloaded, which is what
our hospital administrators and our doctors are telling us is the
danger.
It's not only about those people that have compromised immune
systems. It's not only about the elderly. It is about the other people
that -- it's about, you know, the kid riding his bicycle that falls off,
hits his head and needs to be on a ventilator can't get in to have a
ventilator, you know, because there's no capacity. I mean, these are
the scenarios that I think, while hopefully will never happen, we have
to take into consideration.
And it's -- you know, it's not only New York City, and it's not
only New Orleans. It's happening in a lot of different places around
the country. So thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And, Commissioner Solis, that is --
you articulated that very well. Those are the concerns that I raised at
our commission meeting concerning the fact that we want to protect
our healthcare system not only for people that are suffering from
COVID-19 but just our general population that needs medical care on
March 27, 2020
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an ongoing basis.
So let's -- with the Commission's permission, I'd like to have
Mr. Klatzkow go through what the proposed order really does. And
I'm going to give you an example of how this may -- his commentary
may alleviate some concerns. People are concerned about ongoing
and future construction sites, home building, whatever. This order
clearly exempts contractors and construction. We want to keep our
people working as much as possible, and a lot of that is outdoors and
a lot of that is in isolation.
So I think when he goes through this, this may give our
commission members some solace that it's not as much of an
overreach as a lot of people think that it is, and it may also help
people that are waiting to speak to know whether they're covered or
not.
So with that, I'd like to ask Mr. Klatzkow to go through this in
some detail, because I know commission members have had a very
short period of time to review this as well.
MR. KLATZKOW: And I will go through the ordinance with it
on the monitor so that the general public and the people in this room
can see.
Please understand the purpose of the order. The purpose of the
order is to slow the spread of the virus, period.
To do that, what the order says is subject to the exemptions set
forth below, and they are extensive. All persons living within Collier
County are ordered to stay in their homes. Again, the purpose of
ordering people to stay in their homes is to slow the spread of this
virus, understanding that we have over 100,000 Collier County
residents who are 65 years and older.
Since we're asking people to stay at home, the nonessential
businesses would close. There's no point in having people go
someplace that they don't need to be. We are also prohibiting public
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and private gatherings of people as set forth in the order below.
Now, we're asking people to stay at home except for leaving for
essential activities. Essential activities include for your health and
safety. So go for a walk, understanding that when you're going for
your walk, you're trying to keep social distance. Walk your dog.
Again, keeping social distance. If you want to go for a jog, go for a
jog, just don't do it in a group of people.
We understand that you need to go out for necessary supplies
and services. People have to go out and they have to get groceries.
We understand that, and there's a list of businesses that are exempted
from this because we understand people need to go on with their
lives.
We understand you have to take care of your friends and family.
And so if you need to leave your home to take care of someone,
well, of course you do.
We're asking that the essential businesses in Collier County stay
open, and those are defined below. And we're saying that the
essential government functions, the police, the fire, our ambulance
folks, that they stay open.
Paragraph 7 is a nod, quite frankly, to Monroe County. And
understand that this order is put together from another -- a number of
counties that have similar orders.
Monroe County -- and I talked with their county attorney --
recognized their biggest danger was not within Monroe County but
without Monroe County. People coming there. People fleeing
Miami. People fleeing New York and coming to Monroe County and
bringing the disease with them.
And so Paragraph 7 is asking our hotels and just asking our
short-term vacation rentals, please stop renting to people who are out
of town, all right. We understand that, you know, you should be
renting to healthcare professionals. We understand National Guard
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and law enforcement. But please, to the extent that you can, let's shut
Collier County down from people from the outside, because you
know what's going to happen. You read what's happening in New
York City, and people with money in New York City are going to
leave New York City. Where better than Collier County to go?
Paragraph 8, thou starts a rather lengthy list of what the state, in
general, and other states have all deemed to be essential. Healthcare
providers; obviously we want the ability for you to go to your doctor.
Grocery stores; obviously we want you to be able to get food.
Obviously we want people to farm. We want people that provide
shelter to stay home. We want the media to stay open so that people
can understand what's going on about them.
Gas stations we want open because people have to move around.
People have to get to their stores. We want banks and related
financial institutions to stay open, because people need money for
their essential activities, but we're excluding pawn shops because
pawn shops are more of a retail operation, and much of the retail
business will be closed in Collier County because of this.
Your Lowe's and Home Depot we want open. We want people
to continue working to the extent we can. So construction sites will
stay open. We want people to be able to call up to get their air
conditioner fixed. And so, yes, you can call up and get your air
conditioner fixed. If you have a plumbing issue, you can get your
pluming. If your garage door doesn't work, yes, of course, you can
do that. We're trying to prevent groups of people congregating.
Businesses primarily involved in mailing. We want you to use
Amazon Prime to get your goods and services. We want you to be
able to go to your UPS store to get your goods and services. They
intend to be low-populated venues.
Private colleges we're asking to do as much online as you can.
We want the laundromats and dry cleaners to stay open because
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people still need to get their basic, you know, life functions done.
Restaurants is largely now governed by the governor's executive
order. Restaurants stay open for delivery purposes and for people to
walk up to the window and get whatever they need but, otherwise, the
sit-down is no longer part of our lives.
Businesses that primarily supply office supplies. We want you
to work at home. So if you run out of paper, we want you to be able
to get paper. If you run out of copier toner, we want you to be able to
get copier toner.
We want people -- businesses stay open who primarily deliver
groceries. We want people to stay in their house and order from
Grubhub and that type of thing.
Airlines, taxis, buses, and other transportation providers are to
stay open. People need some mobility. Not everybody has a car.
And, frankly, the airlines which, personally, I'd like to see shut down,
you know, is really a federal issue, not ours anyway.
We want businesses engaged in providing home care for seniors
and adults to stay open. I mean, these are populations that need to be
served. Assisted living facilities, of course, you stay open.
Businesses providing necessary legal or accounting need to stay
open. Childcare facilities need to stay open. Warehouses, because
you have to get your goods shipped, need to stay open.
Telecommunication providers; you know, we all rely on cell phones
even more and more these days if we're going to be in our homes.
We want businesses to be able to continue selling propane and
natural gas.
Office space would stay open to the extent that they can, and
there are guidelines in here as to the number of people. Architects
can continue with their businesses. We want the factories and the
manufacturing plants to continue doing business. We're not trying to
shut these down but, again, later on we're asking that they try to keep
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the groups of 10 noted.
Waste management services because, well, you've got to pick up
the garbage; otherwise, it's a severe health issue. We want the hotels
and motels to stay open but, again, we're asking that they stop taking
reservations from outside of Collier County.
Veterinarians and pet stores and boarding facilities should stay
open. Unfortunately, the mortuaries are going to need to stay open.
Businesses providing services to any local, state or federal
government need to stay open because the governments are giving
you essential services, such as your fire.
Any businesses that employs five or fewer people are exempt
from this. Of course, you can stay open. Again, we're trying to keep
groups of people from being together. We just ask that you try to
remember the 6-foot separation rule.
Electrical production and distribution services, there's no harm
there. May as well keep them open. And marinas. Personally, you
want to take a boat onto the gulf by yourself, God bless you. You're
probably safer there than anywhere else.
And those are the guts of the businesses that are staying open.
Some would argue that that's too many, but this is a general
consensus of what people across the country and Florida are doing
who are enacting stay-at-home ordinances.
We're asking that people do remote work, which is Paragraph 9.
I know I have some of my people doing remote work now. I know
the County Manager has some of his people doing remote work right
now to the extent that you can.
We understand that we can't think of everything. And I have
given Leo the terrible task of being the person who would take an
appeal of this. So if somebody's not sure whether or not they're
essential or nonessential, they have to be able to ask somebody. I've
given that to Leo who can designate that to someone else. I can't
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bring the Board of County Commissioners in for a hearing as to
essential/nonessential. There's going to be too many questions. And
I'm happy to work with Leo on this.
We're not -- the order does not affect the Collier County School
Districts or any public utility. It does not affect, again, essential
businesses.
I'm not touching religious services with a 10-foot pole. This
ordinance is going to -- has a -- this ordinance is going to have its
challenges anyway, and religion's one of those things that really gets
people going. But we do ask you that you limit your gatherings to 10
people or less and at least be six feet apart.
We're asking that groups of 10 are discouraged and may be
ordered to disperse. And we're saying these are our minimum
standards. If the municipalities wish to come in and give stricter
standards, that's up to them.
The severability portion basically just says that we understand
that the governor may step in, and we're not going to be inconsistent
with what the governor might have to say.
The order would be effective within, more or less, 24 hours'
notice. And I've basically given it 21 days just -- the Board could
obviously change that. It's in addition to the executive orders issued
by the governor. And at the end of the day, it's a code violation, all
right. That's what we have the power to do. Code violation is a
maximum of $500 with a misdemeanor. It's the most we can do.
And that's the proposed order.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Thank you,
Mr. Klatzkow.
I know that there are going to be a lot of questions and
comments from the Commission. And I've been sort of picking on
Commissioner Fiala since she's representing District 1. So maybe
we'll reverse that, if that's okay with you, Commissioner McDaniel.
March 27, 2020
Page 48
Let's go through what comments that you may have or questions that
you may have.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes. First off, County
Attorney, I want to thank you for preparing this. I know it's not the
funnest thing to actually have to do. And it's certainly -- to quote my
colleague on my right here, I'm not afflicted with the mental illness
called a law degree. But as I'm reading through this, I'm having a
difficult time ascertaining enforceability. The -- the enforceability --
it's -- with the language that it's, in fact -- as it's written, I'm having a
difficult time understanding how we're going to enforce this. Have
you got any comments -- that's my first question.
I have several, Mr. Chair. So if you'll indulge.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Sure. Absolutely.
MR. KLATZKOW: Enforcing -- enforcing would be either by
the Sheriff or by your code enforcement officers.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Okay. There have been some
representations about the constitutionality of this action at all. Do
you have an opinion with regard to that?
MR. KLATZKOW: I do. And I've been talking to a number of
my fellow county attorneys across the state. And this is a very
difficult type of order for us to write, all right. And understand that
there have been a number of counties who have enacted an order like
this. Alachua enacted it, Hillsborough, Orange County, Osceola,
Pinellas, Gadsden. They've all enacted these. So their county
attorneys believe it's lawful.
You have home rule power as a political subdivision of the state
of Florida. Your home rule power allows you to institute
orders/ordinances within Collier County and Collier County alone.
And you can do so so long as the order that you have is not
inconsistent with federal law or state law. Often we call that
preemption. There's nothing in the state law that preempts you.
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As far as the constitutionality goes, quite frankly, the last time
this happened was 1917, all right. I have no law case I can give you
to say that we have the power. There was no home rule power in
1917. Counties were operating under Dillon's rule. Dillon's rule
basically said that a county could only act under the powers expressly
granted by the legislature, all right.
We got rid of Dillon, many, many years but, unfortunately, it
was well past 1917. I could just tell you that at the end of the day,
my concern is that -- and it's kind of curious, my concern. If this
pandemic turns out to be much less than we fear and an order like this
is enacted, you may get litigation. If this pandemic is much worse
than we fear, all right, well, nobody's going to be questioning this. It
comes down to body bags.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: We've already decided that
there's no good answer for the ultimate question --
(Simultaneous crosstalk.)
MR. KLATZKOW: There is no good answer.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And, again, when I started out
by thanking you for having the unenviable job of preparing this
ordinance, it was with -- it was heartfelt, my gratitude for what you're
having to do.
My last question is maybe a little bit easier and it's -- there was a
discussion, I believe, on Tuesday when we granted Commissioner
Saunders to go speak with the Chairman of the Board of Lee County.
Is there a requisite that governors sign off on this stay-at-home order?
MR. KLATZKOW: No, there's not. And, quite frankly, one of
the purposes of all these stay-at-home orders that I've gleaned from
conversations is to hopefully compel the governor to do this
statewide. It would be everybody's desire, from the world that I live
in, that the governor do this stay-at-home --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yeah.
March 27, 2020
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MR. KLATZKOW: -- and make it statewide rather than leaving
it to the -- to local government to do this. It would be much easier for
everybody and much more consistent throughout the state.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And, Commissioner McDaniel,
just so you know, I did speak with Chairman Hamman on Tuesday,
and I expressed to him a concern dealing with our medical facilities
and potential for overwhelming them. And I asked him to speak with
Dr. Larry Antonucci at Lee Health, which he did.
And the Lee County Commission had an emergency meeting, I
believe, on Wednesday at which time Dr. Antonucci and some of his
staff testified and talked about different models for social distancing
and concluded that in Lee County, based on models -- and, you
know, to me, that's kind of voodoo. I don't know anything about how
his models work. But based on his models, that social distancing
accomplishments in Lee County were around 30 percent, and they
needed to get those numbers up higher to around 50 percent and
preferably around 60 percent to avoid a massive spike in medical
problems that would overwhelm the hospital.
Lee -- the Lee Board of County Commissioners didn't take any
action at that time, but they agreed to have another emergency
meeting on Monday morning. So they're having that same
conversation with their medical providers that we are, and they're
dealing with -- they're going to be dealing with can they increase
social distancing as requested but Lee Health. So we're in a similar
situation as to where they are in terms of dealing with increasing or
considering increasing social distancing. I won't try to predict what
Lee County will do, but that's where they are.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yeah. And thank you,
Commissioner Saunders. I was able to watch that actual hearing and
saw that deliberation. So I appreciate you sharing that, though.
March 27, 2020
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CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let's see if there are any
other questions.
Commissioner Taylor?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: No questions right now, but I'd
like to reserve for later. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Oh, absolutely.
Commissioner Solis.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Yes. I'm -- a couple of things have
become clear to me. One is does the exception swallow the rule? I'm
trying to figure out -- if the goal is to increase the social distancing
and that's the purpose of the order, then I'm trying to get my arms
around what businesses would this actually prevent.
MR. KLATZKOW: And it was drafted broadly as far as the
exemptions go because it's easier to take out than to put in. So if any
of these exemptions you deem to be nonessential as a board, then
they should come out.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Well -- and that's -- I'm trying to
figure out what -- we define what -- we state that only essential
services and essential businesses will be allowed to operate,
nonessential ones will not except for a list. And I've -- I'm trying to
think of a business that is actually going to be impacted by this that
doesn't fall into an exception.
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, Bealls, for example. I mean, they've
voluntarily closed, but a Bealls type of store.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Right. So a retail --
MR. KLATZKOW: Your retail stores are nonessential other
than for, like, food and that type of retail.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: The restaurants under this order can
continue doing what they're doing as long as they're complying with
the governor's order --
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes.
March 27, 2020
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COMMISSIONER SOLIS: -- i.e., they can do takeout and that
sort of thing.
MR. KLATZKOW: Takeout.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: So the restaurants are going to be
where they are now?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Bars will remain closed pursuant to
the governor's order.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Gyms will remain closed pursuant
to the governor's order. I think that included movie theaters. All
those things that are already closed this really doesn't have any
impact on because they're closed by the governor's order.
So other than the retail establishments, I'm just -- and most of
those -- I'm going out on a limb and saying "most." But it seems to
me that a lot of them are already closed, and the season is,
unfortunately, already lost. I'm just -- I'm trying to figure out, does
this -- will this accomplish what we wanted it to accomplish and, if
so, how? And I haven't been able to get my arms around that.
There are a number -- and I know we've all gotten them, at least
2,500 emails in the last two days at least; maybe 3,000 emails in the
last 24 hours.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And phone calls.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: And phone calls, but also suggested
revisions to the ordinance. And I've gotten them from -- from our
senator, Kathleen Passidomo, to, you know, engineers, accountants,
and not just letters of opposition or things like that, but actual
revisions. You know, there's -- there's a lot of things in here that I
think are going to merit, from my perspective, a little more thought.
For example, title companies. I mean, closings are tied to financial
institutions, and if the banks are open, and we can't -- but the title
March 27, 2020
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companies aren't allowed to be open because people would come in
to have closings. There's -- there's issues surrounding ILSA, the
Interstate Land Sales Act, and surveyors and closings and when
construction projects start, that if they didn't, then there's penalties
and things.
I'm a little concerned that there's so much of that that I haven't
even been able to read, because of the 3,000 emails, that I don't know
how we do anything to this ordinance on the fly without running the
risk of some -- of either not addressing things that we need to address
or creating a situation that we didn't intend to create.
That's just -- and I'll add to that that as we heard from the
Chairman, Lee County is having another meeting on Monday to
decide what they're going to do.
I think our experience was with the closure of the beaches that
this is -- and this is -- I'm going to steal this from our County
Manager. It's like squeezing a balloon. You squeeze it at one end
and it goes this way, and you squeeze it the other way and it goes the
other way; that unless we tackle this -- if we're going to do this,
unless we do this on a regional basis, we're squeezing the balloon.
If we do this, I know whatever people cannot do at least in my
district, they're going to go to Bonita, right? And if it's the other way
around, the people in South Lee County, Estero, Bonita, if whatever
they need that is actually impacted by whatever ordinance they adopt
in Lee County, they're coming to Collier County to get that.
So I don't feel comfortable doing this on the fly because there's
so many -- there's been so much information provided that there's no
way that I could have read it all and be prepared to make suggestions
here today.
I also think that given the fact that Lee County is going to
reconsider this -- and I'll tell you, the thing that really shocked me
today was the increase to 81, which is a significant increase from the
March 27, 2020
Page 54
last count, which was 65, and that we've exceeded -- the number of
community transmissions has now exceeded travel-related ones. I
think that's a really big deal, because that means it's not that these
people have come back from Italy two weeks ago and it's -- you
know, it's something they caught in Italy. This means that people are
catching it here.
So I think that -- and this is going to be my suggestion,
Mr. Chair, that we've gotten these new numbers. Lee County is
going to revisit this on Monday, and I would like to suggest -- mainly
for the benefit of the business community, because I know the
business community needs some certainty. I mean, the biggest
problem I think the business community has, at least that I've heard,
is the lack of certainty as to what we're going to do.
So to provide some certainty that whether it's Monday or
Tuesday, we will make a decision one way or the other as to whether
or not we're going to follow what the governor and the Department of
Health are doing, or we're going to enact an ordinance. I mean, that,
in and of itself, is more certainty than any of the business community
has right now.
So we will do something on -- whether it's Monday or Tuesday.
I wasn't aware of any conversations with Lee County, and I would
like to know more about what that was. And if there's more that can
be done -- because, again, doing this one on -- if one of the counties
does this on their own, I just -- I think it's -- in some certain respects,
we could be making it worse.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Solis, I think your
comments are well taken.
And in terms of the communication with Lee County in trying to
go together, I will speak again with Chairman Hammond, and we'll
kind of get an understanding of where they are. But I will let them
know, if it's permissible from the Board, that we are concerned and
March 27, 2020
Page 55
we're very serious about trying to do things we can do to enhance
social distancing, and if it means going together, then so be it. That
would be the best way to go. I agree with you that it is like squeezing
a balloon.
They are meeting on Monday, and we can certainly reconvene
or Monday or Tuesday. We do have a significant number of people
that have come to this meeting to speak. I'd like to go through all of
that so we have their comments so they don't have to come back, if
that's permissible with the Commission. Perhaps at this time we'll go
to the public comment, get through that, and then have some
additional discussion on how to go forward. Would that be
acceptable to the Commission?
MR. OCHS: Mr. Chairman, this is the manager. Before you get
that response from the Board, I have to remind you and the Board
that our court reporter is transcribing the meeting remotely, and she's
due for a court reporter break.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good point. With not seeing her in
the room, it's hard to keep remembering that she's there.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And Commissioner Fiala is
not in the room either, Mr. Chair. You have gone through three of us
and not yourself or her.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes. Well, why don't we go ahead
and take a break, because it has been about an hour and 45 minutes.
We'll come back at five minutes to 3:00, if I'm saying that -- yeah, if
I'm saying that right. That would be 2:55. Is that acceptable for
everybody?
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We'll be back in 11
minutes. Thank you.
(A brief recess was had from 2:45 p.m. to 2:55 p.m.)
MR. OCHS: Ladies and gentlemen, if you'd please take your
March 27, 2020
Page 56
seats. Come to order.
Mr. Chairman, are you on?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes, sir, I am. Are we ready to
proceed?
MR. OCHS: Yes.
Commissioner Fiala, are you on?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I am.
MR. OCHS: Thank you, ma'am.
We're ready to go, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. The meeting will please
come back to order.
Before we get into the public comment section, are there any
other questions or comments from the Commission?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And there will be plenty of
opportunity after the public comment as well. So this is not, you
know, the last opportunity. But, Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, thank you very much.
Regarding the RSW Airport, we've -- we're talking about ways
to stop the spread of this stuff, yet we're allowing people to come in
from states that are already having a problem, and here the governor
has stopped five locations from not having planes coming in from
New York or from New Jersey, Connecticut, but he didn't close RSW
to those same standards, and I think that should be something we talk
about.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: I can comment on that. None of
the airports are closed to flights coming in from that three-state area.
There are folks that are testing for temperature, and then they are
requiring them to be quarantined for 14 days, and now that testing is
occurring at RSW as well. It was not occurring up until yesterday, I
believe.
March 27, 2020
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COMMISSIONER FIALA: Good.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: So people are flying in into all the
airports in Florida. That's not been restricted.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, good. Oh, I'm glad to hear
that, because I did not read that. Okay.
The second thing is about businesses. I know someone who
owns some beauty shops. And she said, I don't know. We're just so
scared. We're so scared.
And I said, you own the shop, right? She said, yes.
I said, then close it. If you don't want to keep your business
open, you don't have to. It's your business, and you don't have to stay
open.
And I'm figuring same with people. If they feel that they don't
want to be on the streets or going to different businesses, well, then
stay home. We're all doing a lot of that anyway, staying out of
harm's way, and we have plenty of control over what we do. And so
people can just stay at home rather than go out and travel for a while.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Any other questions
before we go to the -- or comments before we go to the public
hearing?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yes, Mr. Chair. Commissioner
Taylor here.
I would like to show on the visualizer a photograph that was
taken at noon today. This is Fifth Avenue South, ladies and
gentlemen. This is noon. This was sent in to us just before our
meeting. I think we all got this.
It's amazing to me. This is not even in August. This is worse
than August. Worse meaning for the businesses, but the businesses --
there's no one there because the businesses are closed. Waterside is
closed.
Thank you.
March 27, 2020
Page 58
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Anything else?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Commissioner, just one more
addition. I got a call from the Veterinarian Society, and they said that
is something that's essential, because they take care of sick dogs and
so forth, and they would want you to add them to the list of
corporations that are allowed to stay open. Veterinarians.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. They're already on that list.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, I didn't see them. I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yes. Okay. If there's nothing
else --
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Mr. Chair.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- then I'm going to turn the gavel
over to Mr. Solis to conduct the public hearing.
Commissioner -- Mr. Chairman Solis, will you take over at this
point?
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I will, thank you. Although we're
not going to -- are we swearing witnesses? This isn't a public hearing
for an ordinance?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: No, no. This is public comment.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Okay. Well, thank you. And now
that I have the gavel, I guess I'll say something else, and that is,
there's a lot of people here, obviously, that want to speak to the
ordinance. I would just caution that if we're going to take some time
to look at this some more, it may not be the document that you are
actually going to be speaking about by Monday or Tuesday, if we get
to that.
So I'm just trying to get my -- the rest of the commissioners'
temperature on how we proceed, because I think there's going to have
to be some substantial revisions -- not substantial, but some
significant revisions for specific industries and things that maybe
aren't expressly enumerated in there.
March 27, 2020
Page 59
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Yeah. Let me make a suggestion,
if I might. We've got a lot of people that have come.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We don't want them to have to
come back. And so I think, let's let everyone speak that wants to
speak, even though there may be a change to the order. They will
have that order that they can look at and come back if necessary but,
perhaps, by having their piece and saying what they want to say, that
would eliminate the necessity of them coming back. That's the
concern I have is having too many meetings with, you know,
people --
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Sure.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- people congregating. That's a
problem in and of itself. So that's my suggestion --
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Sure.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- going forward.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: And a point well taken. I was just
going to say that if anybody would like to reserve their comments,
you might want to, because I think there's going to be some changes
to it.
So with that said, are we ready for public speakers?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Yeah. And maybe we could find
out how many public speakers we have.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: How many do we have?
MR. MILLER: Thirty-one.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Thirty-one.
MR. MILLER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Very good.
MR. MILLER: And, Mr. Chair, Commissioners, I'm going to
call -- I usually call off two names. I'm going to call off three,
potentially four, because in order to practice safe social distancing,
March 27, 2020
Page 60
we have speakers spread out on several floors here in the building.
So your first speaker will be Patricia Drow. She will be
followed by Crystal Gabbard, who will be followed by Alfie Oakes,
and then Steve Bracci.
Ms. Drow, either podium, and if Ms. Gabbard can come up to
the other podium.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: And I'll just ask if -- for anyone -- if
there's somebody that has said what you've said, please feel free to
join in what the prior speaker had said. We don't need to prolong it
any more than we need to.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Ms. Drow.
MS. DROW: I'm Patricia Drow. I'm just an ordinary citizen
representing myself. I have lived in the state of Florida for 36 years,
however. Full-time permanent resident and resident for many years
of Collier County.
Statistics, as we've all heard this afternoon, can be ad nauseam,
and they can be used for whichever side you are on. So I'm pleading
on my own behalf to vote no for this order, and I believe that
common sense should prevail.
Yes, overkill is overkill. My own particular situation is that I,
like a lot of others, love to exercise. It's a healthy outlet for -- you get
endorphins physically, mentally. I, unfortunately, have a chronic
systemic autoimmune disease which precludes me from being in the
sunshine. I cannot tolerate the heat. Therefore, when the Y closed, I
have started walking at Coastland Mall each day.
Each day I noticed more and more stores have chosen to close.
Currently, Dillard's is still remaining open along with two very, very
small sports athletic shops. The rest, 95 percent, are closed. The
mall is totally void of anybody. It's deserted.
And as a plea to people who cannot go out and exercise outside
March 27, 2020
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in this heatwave -- because it is going to be 93 degrees today -- I'm
pleading that we -- that whoever the owners of the mall are,
Coastland Mall, have chosen to -- for that mall to remain open. I
think if they were going to close it, it would have been done along
with Edison and Coconut Point.
So, therefore, it is a refuge not only for my physical well-being
but for my mental and emotional health.
So I'm pleading for that exception. I notice on my daily walks,
half a dozen people throughout the whole space of the mall. That's
social distancing.
So, again, it would preserve the few jobs that are there and the
businesses that have chosen to remain open and help people like me
that cannot enjoy the outdoors and the outside as I would like to to be
able to have one positive outlet of enjoyment or joy, which also helps
me maintain my physical health.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Thank you.
MS. DROW: Thanks for listening. I am adding -- would like to
add Coastland Mall as an exception that it remain open as long as the
owners of that mall do.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Crystal Gabbard, followed
by Alfie Oakes, then Steve Bracci, then Sam Saad.
Ms. Gabbard.
MS. GABBARD: Thank you, Commissioners. For this
opportunity. I'm here on behalf of our local 40 Days for Life chapter
to offer information in response to 8A, specifically reproductive
healthcare providers as an essential service, specifically regarding the
elective service of abortion, which is outside the scope of the
Executive Order 20-72 issued by Governor DeSantis.
It states, all office surgery centers and practitioners' offices in
the state were prohibited from providing surgery which, if delayed,
March 27, 2020
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does not place the patient's immediate health at risk or will, if
delayed, not contribute to the worsening of a serious or
life-threatening medical condition. They were to immediately cease
performing these elective surgeries. We know that abortion is a
choice; therefore, an elective procedure.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Can you just slow down a little bit?
We have a court reporter that's trying to follow you.
MS. GABBARD: Oh, I'm so, so, so sorry. I'm sorry -- meaning
one that was scheduled in advance because it does not involve a
medical emergency.
And the importance of canceling essential procedures is crucial,
as you heard earlier by our local medical professionals.
The American Association of Pro-Life Obstetricians and
Gynecologists noted in a recent press release, continuing to perform
elective abortions during a pandemic is medically irresponsible.
They use up much-needed resources, masks, gloves, and other
personal protective equipment, and approximately 5 percent of
women who undergo medical, not surgical, abortions will require
evaluations in the hospital, most commonly from hemorrhage.
Our nation is facing a blood shortage at this time. We cannot
afford to potentially generate more patients to be seen in an already
overburdened emergency room. There is no threat to the patient's life
if an abortion is not performed at this time. There is also no added
risk to pregnant women who contract COVID-19 that we know of,
according to CDC. Those at greater risk we know are older than 65
with underlying medical conditions.
There have been no cases in maternal deaths reported.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Slow down.
MS. GABBARD: Women infected with the coronavirus during
pregnancy deliver live babies, according to studies in China. There is
no known threat to the child. There have been no known deaths from
March 27, 2020
Page 63
coronavirus in newborns to date, according to the CDC. There is no
evidence that coronavirus is transferred from mother to baby during
pregnancy, unlike the Zika and Ebola. In fact, I would suggest that
the safest place for a human might be in the womb of its mother at
this time.
As you can see, as pro-lifers, we base our information on
research and scientific facts. With that, we know that abortion hurts
women; however, during this pandemic, it can also hurt our country,
neighbors, and families, those we know and love, do life with.
I'm asking you to recognize abortion as a nonessential procedure
because it is in conflict with the Executive Order 20-72 and, as such,
should be deemed inapplicable and severed from this order according
to Paragraph 16.
I also implore you, for the safety of our local healthcare
providers on the front line, to consider urging such providers to
donate PPE as they have no emergent need to perform procedures.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Alfie Oakes. He's been
ceded three additional minutes from Jeremy Giles and will be
followed by Steve Bracci, Sam Saad, and then Chris Riching.
Mr. Oakes, six minutes.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Mr. Giles is here?
MR. MILLER: Yes. He's right there, sir.
MR. OAKES: Thank you for taking the time to hear me today.
I'd like to say -- one thing is I'm not here in any way to try to save my
own skin. My business does very well. Right now we're doing about
50 percent more business than usual. So I'm not up here for a
personal agenda. I'm here as a patriot because I think this is
tremendous government overreach what's going on here.
You know, the -- I'm going to talk most of the time I'm here
about facts. There's a lot of opinions here. I heard the good doctor
March 27, 2020
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here that comes from the left-wing organization, Collier Medical
Society. So while we're talking about opinions, my opinion is that
maybe some of the things he said were for different reasons other
than maybe our -- what's our best health interest, and after that we'll
get on to the facts.
But the simple facts just do not warrant any type of a
government shutdown when we really look at the factual numbers.
And I know that they're saying, oh, we're not going to compare this to
the flu early on, and back, you know, when I talked to Governor Rick
Scott two weeks, he gave me some compelling arguments of why we
should shut down the government and our businesses and things like
that. But what we've seen in the last couple weeks does not really
reflect of the fear that we originally had.
Right now if we look at the total amount of deaths in Dade and
Broward County, it's six. The total amount of fatalities in Lee and
Collier County combined, it's four.
So we have 10 people with fatalities out of 6.2 million people.
That's very minimal. And believe me, every life is very important to
me. But we can't close down our whole economy based on a very
minimal amount of lost lives.
Right now there's nine people in the Collier County hospitals
with corona. It's very minimal. Obviously, we're afraid that it could
get much worse, but the signs aren't showing us.
Right now -- last night at the White House, Dr. Birx came out
and said that this is trending to be more of a one-tenth of a percent
like -- normal to, like, a normal flu virus versus the 3-and-a-half to
5 percent that they originally, you know, were talking about from the
World Health Organization and the CDC.
And while these people, I'm sure, have great intentions from
those organizations, it's the same -- same people that told us there
was going to be 10 -- a million cases of Ebola that ended up only
March 27, 2020
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being 30,000. So they're always erring on the side of caution.
You know, the truth is we have 1,380 people that have died in
this country so far from the COVID-19. A normal flu season -- this
is not my records. This is CDC. We know that 61,000 people died
from March to October [sic] with the normal flu season, and there
wasn't a word about it. Nothing shut down.
So if we're going to take this stance that we're so worried about
every human life -- and believe me, we are -- that means that we
should just shut our whole Collier County -- you know, businesses all
down every flu season. Between the 15th of October till the 15th of
March, we just need to shut it all down because we're so worried
about every human life that -- and if that's the stance we're going to
take, then let's start closing every business from that time. We'll just
shut it all down.
But at some point you have to look at the long-term
consequences of, you know -- besides economic consequences,
there's -- the suicide rate has doubled. There's a lot of really bad
thing that are happening as a result of the economic tragedy.
You know, if we want to keep -- if we wanted to keep, you
know, going where we're worried so much about lives, there's 2,500
people per day that die of heart disease. So if we're going to take that
stance, then we would say, you know, maybe the government should
decide that it should enact something to close down every fast food
restaurant because that's causing a lot of heart disease. I mean, at
what point does the government overreach take away our civil
liberties to the point where we no longer can make decisions?
We have the choice in this country to make good and bad
decisions. If you eat Big Macs every day, you're probably going to
end up with heart disease, but is that -- you know, at what point does
the overreach, you know, make it to where we no longer have any
liberties left? And that's where I feel like we're going.
March 27, 2020
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I've never felt in my life a time -- you know, when I was
growing up as a young teenager, the first time I ever really started
thinking about how in Nazi Germany could Hitler have persuaded
everybody to do the things he's done? And up until the last two
weeks, it was always kind of mysterious to me how it could happen.
But right now, I kind of can see how it all happened. The
government kind of comes in, and everybody conforms, and it's
really scary. These are scary times for me.
Thank you for listening.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker --
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I've got a question. I mean, if -- I
just have a question for Mr. Oakes. If the numbers aren't enough to
warrant this kind of overreach, tell me what number would be.
MR. OAKES: Maybe a number that got up close to the normal
flu season that we never talk about. So let's say that right now we're
at 13,800, or maybe I would say, probably -- if we're going to really
shut down all the businesses, I would say it would probably be
double the amount of a normal flu season. So if we got up to 120,000
deaths, then that number would be somewhat alarming, maybe
double a normal flu season, and you might start thinking about
closing.
You know, right now we're not really seeing any conclusive
proof that it's going to be worse. It could be. I mean, it could be --
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Thank you.
MR. OAKES: Yeah, thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Steve Bracci, followed by
Sam Saad, Chris Riching, and then Lauren Melo.
MR. BRACCI: Good afternoon, Board. Steve Bracci, Collier
County resident.
To pick up where -- that question from Commissioner Solis just
asked, perhaps the correct number of people would be the number of
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people that is balanced against the other interests, which I'm not
seeing much of today. I see we brought up the physicians, who,
incidentally, are not epidemiologists. They're out of their lane when
they're talking about some of this stuff. They're physicians.
But, you know, we had Sheriff Rambosk here today. Why did
we not ask Sheriff Rambosk if there's been an uptick of mental health
issues, such as suicide, domestic violence? We didn't hear that today.
We just heard from the physicians.
Anyway, I want to get back to my prepared remarks.
Like most Americans, I'm stating the obvious when I say that
I'm an advocate of personal liberty. And we do not like to see it
watered down under the justification of some kind of emergency.
We gave up all of our liberties after 9/11, and 15 years later it
manifested itself in some of the worst abuses by federal government
that we've ever seen in this country.
We need to be careful here. Our Collier County community
should generally oppose any type of mass closing of our local
economy, and to Commissioner Taylor's earlier point, particularly a
resolution such as the one in front of you that seems as watered down
as it is with so many exemptions and caveats that, effectively, it
nullifies any real benefit that it may have to prevent the spread of the
coronavirus.
Given the magnitude of this extraordinary proposed resolution
and the adverse exponential and mental health consequences it could
have on our citizenry, I would think that there would be a careful
legal review conducted by the county on this proposed resolution.
And to that end, this morning I asked the County Attorney to provide
me with any memorandum that had been prepared. He informed me
that there's been none. That's concerning.
This is a big enough issue for us that we should not be relying
on the Gadsden County or the Alachua County Attorney. We don't
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know how much due diligence those guys did when they prepared
theirs. We should have our own. There should be a formal legal
memorandum on these points.
What type of things should we be considering? Well, number
one, what is the limits of authority when the governor has already
declared a state of emergency on these same points and has
implemented his own executive orders?
Number two, you know, we're getting into the area of temporary
takings with closing businesses and, yet, this is so arbitrary as to
which businesses are staying open and which are not.
Commissioner Taylor pointed out, there's 37 enumerated
exceptions here. You know, are we at the risk of not having a
rational basis? Are we at the risk of experiencing civil rights and
equal protection lawsuits for the way this is drafted?
How about vagueness? I, as an attorney, can practice law to the
extent necessary to legally -- implement legally mandated activity.
What is legally mandate activity? What if I'm doing nothing? Is that
mandated? I mean, what does it mean to be legally mandated? It's
internally conflict -- internal conflicts.
Clothing stores, realtors. I mean, if -- government folks -- if the
landscaper --
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Thank you.
MR. BRACCI: All right.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I just -- I want to make a
point of clarification. And you might have been out of the room, but
when Sheriff Rambosk spoke to us earlier, I didn't put him on the
spot for updated information today, but on Tuesday he did report that
in the first two weeks of what we have brought forward, specifically
over -- I think he -- to be specific, over the weekend, he did -- he did
report a 30 percent increase in domestic violence calls that came to
the Sheriff. And I wasn't sure -- you mentioned that earlier. I did ask
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that -- I didn't ask him for update -- I mean, that's only -- today's
Friday. I didn't ask for new news. He did say there had been a
leveling off since then, and there was an increase over the weekend.
But I wanted you to hear that.
MR. BRACCI: Thank you. I did step out. I had to take call.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Sam Saad, followed by
Chris Riching, Lauren Melo, and then commissioner -- Planning
Commissioner Patrick Dearborn.
MR. SAAD: Good afternoon. My name is Sam Saad, III. My
address is 1363 14th Avenue North, Naples, 34102.
I'm here today to ask you to reconsider your emergency order to
clearly include real estate agents and settlement service providers as
essential businesses. Collectively, this industry employs nearly
10,000 people in Collier County, all of whom can do their work
safely and remotely without interacting with the general public
through the use of modern technology.
Please consider real estate transactions and title recordings to be
declared an essential business which should remain active with steps
taken in order to minimize risks to workers. These businesses
provide services that are legally mandated by contract, and they work
with the financial industry in processing escrow payments.
Furthermore, the federal government considers financial
services essential. I have from -- this came from Wells Fargo this
morning. Wells Fargo is part of the financial service sector identified
as critical infrastructure sector by the U.S. Department of Homeland
Security. Per their bulletin dated March 19th, 2020, the essential
critical infrastructure workforce for the financial sector includes
workers who are needed to process and maintain systems for
processing financial transactions including settlement services and
key third-party providers who deliver core services to provide
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consumers with access to banking and lending services.
I'll add that 90 percent of the work we do is from home or
offices without interacting with the public. With regard to certain
interactions, such as taking pictures in particular units, this could be
done in a safe manner using social distancing. We can take steps to
ensure safety, including permitting -- permitted recording of
documents, only submitting things online and through electronic
platforms or by email or, if they have to be in person, by appointment
with appropriate safeguards for the duration of the crisis.
I'll remind you that in the absence of a functioning real estate
economy and contracts progress would not -- contracts in progress
would not close. Real estate is the single most important leg of our
local economy, and low interest rates are allowing refinances that are
going to be essential for keeping people in their homes as we weather
this crisis.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Chris Riching, followed by
Lauren Melo --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I believe Commissioner Taylor has
a question.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Just a quick question.
Hi, neighbor.
MR. SAAD: Hi, neighbor.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: So, right now you say in your
firm, right, or 90 percent of your workers. How are you operating
now? Are they without -- without anything mandated?
MR. SAAD: We have taken -- unfortunately, our industry is in
a state of flux. The state passed remote online notary effective
January 1, but the technology is not entirely there to complete that
process. So, where possible, we are having zero interaction with the
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public. Where we are required to bring a person into our office, we
have put cleaning procedures in place. They don't meet with anyone
but me. I stay away from everybody else. We wipe everything with
Lysol and Clorox, and are just processing the closing transactions as
best as possible.
I will say that it's been a -- it's been a bit of a challenge, but we
are keeping what I consider an essential part, the financial sector,
moving. I mean, there are people who are desperate to get into
homes. There are people who are desperate to get out of their homes.
It's been a challenge, but we're keeping it moving, and we're keeping
everything clean and away from the public.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And a majority of your
transactions right now today are in the office, or do you --
MR. SAAD: No, they're online.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: They're online.
MR. SAAD: Yeah. So the -- some of my employees are
working -- can work from home because they have the ability -- they
have the computers at home, and everything is online. Some of the
employees are in the office. But the ones that are in the office are not
interacting with the public, and the only public that comes in are, like
I said, required to, like, sign a mortgage.
So if you are a cash buyer, for example, it's entirely an online
process. If you are a seller, the statute requires two witnesses, the
notary, and the notary has to be either in person or complying with
these remote online procedures, and we're just limiting the ability of
people to interact with each other as much as possible. And we have
found it to be very effective.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Chris Riching followed by
Lauren Melo, Planning Commissioner Dearborn, and then State
March 27, 2020
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Representative Byron Donalds.
MR. RICHING: Good afternoon. My name is Chris Riching.
I'm the executive vice president of Bill Smith, Incorporated, and I'm
here on behalf of ownership of the company to discuss not so much
the initiation of a stay-at-home order but to discussing specifics, the
order itself, and specifically Section 8.i. And under Section 8.i,
appliance repair is an essential business established as an essential
business; however, what's absent from this order is appliance sales.
And I can tell you that as we have an incredibly large market
share across the Southwest Florida footprint, we are seeing an
increased demand in certain types of products. Those products are
those things that we need for food preservation, medications to be
preserved in refrigeration, foods, of course, cleaning equipment,
laundry, dishwashers, those things. Obviously they're dominating our
purchase experience at this time.
Our market share is significant, was significant before and is
greater today as we watch Best Buy nationally closing stores. They
are not allowing customers in the store. While they do allow virtual
purchases, they will not bring the product into the home. And no one
in this room is probably capable of taking a refrigerator off the
doorstep and bringing it into the house; other than you.
So due to the fact that we possessed a greater than 15 percent
market share already placing over 1,000 refrigerators this month
alone into the market, over 1,200 laundry units into the homes this
month alone during this crisis, also well over 700 dishwashers and
countless other products people rely upon, we're a self-servicing
dealer, so we see both sides of this.
The service is a small part of the demand that we're seeing. And
please keep in mind, service is a long horizon for a solution. We
have to get to you first. You have to be the next in line. That can
take a few days. We have to diagnose, order parts, return again,
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waiting a few days; easily a seven to 10-day window to get
something. Too often it's too old. It's not worth it money-wise to
perform that repair.
We would like to point to Governor Newsom's California order,
Executive Order N-33-20, which specifically called out appliance
retailers as essential, and the entire state of California's operating
under that premise.
Our data, with Best Buy shut down, with Ferguson's shut down,
with Monark shut down, with Design by Raymond shut down, and
Fuse all shut down, five of our appliance competitors are now closed,
leaves basically Home Depot, Lowe's, Bill Smith, Incorporated.
Home Depot and Lowe's cannot meet the needs of our this, and if we
are not established as an essential business, this community will go
out -- without its vital products and services, which we provide. We
feel it is imperative that Section 8.i include appliance retail sales.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: No, I'm good. Thank you
very much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Laurie Melo, followed by
Planning Commissioner Dearborn, State Representative Byron
Donalds, and then Tom Conroy.
MS. MELO: Good afternoon. For the record, my name is
Lauren Melo. I am the president of the Naples Area Board of
Realtors.
I understand your intent to keep citizens safe and essential
services in place. This involves tough decisions concerning
businesses and professional services that contribute to our local
economy.
That said, on behalf of our 7,000 members, I am before you
today to respectfully request that real estate and settlement services,
including residential leasing, be considered essential businesses.
The housing market has a trickle-down effect into other areas of
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our community. And though we are asking for special consideration,
it comes with my board and our members' dedication to acting
responsible and not put ourselves and those we work with in harm's
way.
I recognize that your consideration of this request is dependent
on details regarding the health and safety of our buyers, sellers, and
the professionals involved at every level of the real estate process.
We understand that everyday function will need to be modified.
Please know that our board, out of an abundance of caution, has
already taken substantial steps to keep our members and those they
work with safe. We have quickly responded and provide updates and
information to our members on how they can conduct business safely
with precaution and without putting either themselves or others in
harm's way.
We have suspended public showings in our MLS system, and
we are urging members to follow CDC guidelines and strongly
encouraging members to continue virtual operations. This means
virtual open houses, virtual showings and, of course, our e-closing, as
Sam Saad referred to.
I would also like to mention, as Sam pointed out, that Sanibel
has just announced that they are not supporting the stay-at-home
and -- on the island of Sanibel.
I would like to thank you for your time and consideration.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Planning Commissioner
Patrick Dearborn, followed by Representative Byron Donalds, Tom
Conroy, and then Keith Flaugh.
MR. DEARBORN: Afternoon, Commissioners. Thank you
guys for this task you've got before you. All county employees. Leo,
all you guys. It's a tough, tough spot to be in, but I know you guys
will see this thing through.
Based on the comments I've heard already -- I've heard some
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great points, especially by Alfie Oakes and our NABOR president,
Sam Saad, et cetera.
I want to reserve my right to speak based on I feel like we're
going to be coming back here again next week to say how some
things play out, which I think's a great idea, and postpone this vote
today. So I'll reserve my right and time for then. And just one last
thought is, thoughts and prayers go out for everybody affected by
this. I don't think anybody in this room is trying to downplay the
effect this is having. I think we're here to talk about the picture of
this ordinance and the need that we don't -- that this should not be
passed as it is. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker, Representative Byron
Donalds, followed by Tom Conroy, then Keith Flaugh, and Rich
Yovanovich.
REPRESENTATIVE DONALDS: Commissioners, how you
guys doing?
First of all, let me just tell you, I know exactly what you're
having to go through, being a member of the legislature. Every now
and again we are faced with questions about legislation we're going
to put through for the entire state of Florida in times of crisis.
So my comments here really are coming from a place where I
know exactly the decision that's in front of you, and I hope that you
take my words in that vein.
The first thing I would say, having got a chance to read this
ordinance, there are many issues with it. The first one is, is I simply
don't think -- and I think the County Attorney alluded to that, that you
don't have the authority to issue a stay-at-home order for citizens of
Collier County.
It is my opinion that such an order should come from the
governor. And if local government is going to take that action -- I
know there are several local governments in the state of Florida who
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have taken this action. I believe they've taken it without proper
authority from the legislature and from the governor.
Point two, I think Section 10 of the ordinance causes major
issues. It puts your County Manager in a bad situation where he is --
he is going to be the arbiter of what is an unessential business that's
allowed to operate under this order, and it puts a time constraint on
him because your order expires on April 17th. So how is he or his
designee going to be -- have the time to vet what's essential -- what
nonessential business is allowed to operate? That part of your
ordinance is very problematic.
But, Commissioners, the largest thing is really the duty that you
hold. It has been said in this room, and rightfully so, that you have a
duty to protect the health, the safety, and the welfare of the citizens of
Collier County. I have that same duty as well. But you also have
another duty, and that is protect the Constitution of the United States
and to uphold the civil liberties of all the citizens of Collier County. I
share that same duty.
And in times like this where we have major issues of crisis, the
Constitution must stand firm, and you have to -- you have to show the
necessary restraint to make sure that we do the things necessary to
protect our citizens, to protect their welfare, and protect their health,
but at the same time their constitutionally protective rights cannot be
eroded in the face of the crisis that we are seeing around us.
My heart goes out to everybody that's having to deal with this
crisis. It is something that we're going to have to work through, and I
think a lot of citizens are already taking the necessary steps in order
to social distance, the picture which was shown about what's
happening on Fifth Avenue right now, today.
But, Commissioners, take great care in what your next steps are.
I know you're going to probably do some additional revisions. I will
tell you that I know that it was said that you might not want to see
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everybody have to come back and repeat what they're going to say,
but I think it's critical that people do come back and repeat what they
have to say, because this affects the everyday lives of the citizens of
Collier County. And I would urge you to either, A, postpone this
vote or vote no today, and I would actually urge you to vote no in the
future.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Tom Conroy, followed by
Keith Flaugh, Rich Yovanovich, and then Roberts Weeks.
MR. CONROY: Good afternoon. My name is Tom Conroy.
I've been a citizen, a resident of Collier County since 1963. I live at
85 Caribbean Road. I would like to speak against the ordinance.
It's my belief that your duty should be to examine how our social
distancing techniques are working presently before we make a
decision to further lock down this community.
Dr. Mark Prysi, who's a physician here in town, indicated to me
today that the Medical Society, the gentleman who spoke earlier
today, did not take any vote, did not send any emails, did not contact
any physicians on a general basis as to their position on this issue.
Dr. Mark Prysi and his colleagues, who he keeps in contact with,
indicates that they are against this lockdown ordinance, and they're
not in favor of it.
You also heard something from one of the physicians who spoke
in favor of this that South Korea had some type of a quarantine and,
as best that I understand, South Korea did not have a quarantine.
They, in fact, had aggressive testing. They tested over 255,000
people and then quarantined those who tested positive.
So even the physician who spoke about trying to quarantine our
community did not understand the South Korea quarantine in the fact
that there was none.
The CEO of the hospital indicated that our hospital is healthy,
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that there are beds available, and that he believes that we're -- he said
the hospital is healthy. I guess he didn't go as far as to say he thinks
we'll be able to manage it. But he said the hospital is healthy. Beds
are available right now.
Sheriff Rambosk indicated that social distancing seems to be
working. We saw a picture of Fifth Avenue. No one's there. I
believe this social distancing is going to work. It's going to be
effective at lowering our incident rate and flattening or curve.
I believe that Commissioner Solis' question of will this lockdown
reduce the transmission rate is not the proper question, with all due
respect. Of course it will reduce the transmission rate. The question
is, what is the cost of that additional reduction?
I believe that we need to have an analysis of how our present
social distancing is going to work, and we need to recognize the costs
that we're already experiencing is immense. I'm a real estate attorney
here in Naples. Already landlords are calling me and telling me that
businesses are not paying their rents. They can't afford to pay their
mortgages. We all know people. If they're not employed, they're not
going to pay their mortgages. We've got severe problems that are
upcoming. I don't believe that locking us down and creating more
businesses that can't pay their rent and more landlords that can't pay
their mortgages is the way that we need to proceed.
So I'd like to encourage a balance. Make sure that our existing
social distancing is not working before we adopt any draconian
lockdown in Collier County.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Keith Flaugh, followed by
Rich Yovanovich, then Robert Weeks, and then Corey -- I'm having
trouble reading this. Craven? Craven maybe?
Mr. Flaugh?
MR. FLAUGH: Good afternoon, Commissioners. I'm here to
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speak to you to urge you to vote no today. It seems to be a foregone
conclusion you're going to do something, and we have to come back.
You've heard some very good arguments. I thought the one from our
state representative on the constitutionality was extremely valid.
But I do think there's a history lesson here that we can all learn
from. I'm reminded of a World War II story for the Battle of
Bastogne. When surrounded by insurmountable odds and
overwhelming German forces, U.S. General McAuliffe responded to
a German demand to surrender his forces, what did he say? Nuts.
Nuts.
I usually try to stay calm and very balanced during these types
of discussions, but if you authorize the shutdown ordering -- that
you're ordering, you are surrendering out of fear and destroying our
economic ability to fight this virus. You have a responsibility to not
do that. I urge you not to contribute to the destruction of our
economy.
I also would reinforce the question on constitutionality. Our
constitution makes it very clear; your single role is to protect the life,
liberty, and pursuit of happiness of all of us, and if you persist with
this, you are failing in that responsibility.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Rich Yovanovich,
followed by Robert Weeks, Corey Cragman. Sorry, I cannot read
your last name, Corey, and then Thomas Turner.
MR. YOVANOVICH: Good afternoon. Rich Yovanovich.
Much of what I going to say has already been said, but I do want
to emphasize a couple of points regarding how important
construction obviously is to Collier County from its economic base.
We experienced it not too long ago when construction did, in fact,
stop for other reasons.
Jeff has, I think, an impossible task in writing an order that truly
addresses all of the situations regarding what should be allowed, what
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shouldn't be allowed as an essential service.
For instance, there's ambiguities in the ordinance, and I didn't
catch all of them when I sent my draft to you on the redline. There's
more I need to make. But with regard to -- there's one place in your
ordinance you say construction can continue but then in another place
it says only engineering and architectural services can continue for
what's currently in place, which would imply that you can't continue
to pull permits for new houses. So there's some ambiguity there that
needs to be taken care of.
I'm glad to see we're going to hopefully take care of residential
closings, or all closings, to make sure that that can all happen, but
you don't even list the ability for people to move into those houses as
an allowed use under this ordinance. So you don't have moving
companies as an essential service here. People are going to buy their
house or close, and they want to move in. There's a lot of things that
are missing in this ordinance.
What I really want to stress, though, is the construction industry
has, in fact, taken this illness very seriously. They are practicing
social distancing on their construction sites. They are mandating that
if people are not feeling well, do not come to work. Keep your
distance. They're doing smaller crews at these different sites to make
sure that they can accommodate social distancing.
My feeling is, I know my own company has been practicing
social distancing. We've got almost 50 employees. I don't meet the
small business exemption of five, but we're practicing social
distancing.
I think it's been effective. It's not perfect, but I do think it's been
effective. The construction industry's doing that. I know the real
estate industry is doing that. A lot of people are doing what is
necessary to make sure we don't get our family members sick. But
we do need to recognize that business needs to go on, and it needs to
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go on in a safe way. I think everybody in this room is committed to
continuing business operations in a safe way.
I know that the clients that I represent that are asking that
construction be allowed to continue will continue to do business in a
safe way and so will the realtor companies that we represent and the
closing agents that we represent.
I think you need -- you've got -- everybody's -- you've got
everybody's attention, which I think was one of your goals. You
need to mandate social distancing is in place, and it's serious
business. I don't know that you can craft a stay-at-home order that
will meet every situation. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Robert Weeks, followed
by Corey, last name begins with a C, and then Thomas Turner, and
then Jacob Winge.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I know Representative Rommel's
here, and I don't know where he --
MR. MILLER: He gave me slip very late, sir. Do you want me
to call him now?
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Yeah. Why don't we just hear
from --
MR. MILLER: Representative Rommel.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Get it out of the way.
REPRESENTATIVE ROMMEL: Thank you, Commissioner. I
thought Priscilla filled out my slip for me.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Are we going to dock her
pay?
REPRESENTATIVE ROMMEL: Well, let's hope not, because
she doesn't get paid enough as it is.
But first of all, you know, I want to thank you guys for taking
this serious, and on a state level we are taking it, you know, very
serious. And, I think because of the actions of the governor, we have
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the results that we have.
We have a very small percentage of the population that has been
infected already. If you compare to, you know, New York or
Washington, much higher percentages. And in the state of Florida,
most of the infected come from two counties on the East Coast.
We've basically shut down the state of Florida, you know.
Commissioner Taylor, that was a great visual there. As a business
owner, you know, not for myself, but Collier County is shut down.
The only people that are going out are people that are going to the
grocery stores. And if we want to have an honest conversation, when
you go to the grocery store, there are people standing within six feet
of each other, especially when they're checking out.
The doctors talked before about the need for PPEs and collection
tests. Yesterday, with one phone call I found 5,000 collection tests
that will get results within 24 hours. So there are supplies out there.
PPEs are definitely a problem because we have to get that on a much
faster pace.
I know the County Attorney talked about in your resolution that
it would be just a mere fine. But I looked up Florida Statute 252-50.
It's a second-degree misdemeanor. So I don't know what due process
that we're going to do to actually charge people with misdemeanors
here. I don't know, you know, what we're going to do.
You know, the county is doing you a great job. You know, the
county actually has some of the lowest numbers in the states, the
county, when you've based it on the size of the population we have.
People are already leaving. People are social distancing, because
we're leaving the county. I mean, people are going back home. They
want to be closer to their families. Whatever's going to happen's
going to happen. But we can't just decide what business can stay
open when we know that the businesses that are open, like Alfie's
market, there's thousands of people there every single day.
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If we're -- if we truly believe this is going to stop the spread,
sorry, Alfie, we're going to have to close your business, too.
And, you know, somehow the National Guard's going to have to
distribute food.
And what about the folks that work at Walgreens? You think
that by closing -- you decide what businesses can stay open or close,
the workers at Walgreens that make 10, 12, $15 an hour, they're
going to feel good about going to work? They're going to be afraid.
We can't instill panic.
I know one of the provisions you had in there, the governor just
has an order that we're going -- that he's going to suspend new
vacation rentals for the next 14 days, so we can take that out of the
provision there.
But we can't -- we can't decide that we're going to take away due
process. We're going to stomp on individual civil liberties because
we think we're going to save, you know, people's lives, and -- you
know, we have to do what we can, but, you know, people are going
out.
People are doing a better job washing. You know, people are --
we have -- I think Commissioner Fiala said it best, too, when she was
talking about her hair salon. We need to let businesses decide if it's
best for them to close down, if it's best for their families to close
down, but we can't, as a business -- as a government decide, you
know, we're going to allow -- architects are going to stay open.
I mean, has the county government decided to furlough all its
nonessential employees yet. We can't do that. We can't take away
people's rights. We're doing a great job in the state, and I know in the
county we're doing a really good job, but, you know, please don't
impose any more, you know.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I have a question.
March 27, 2020
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COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Question.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I may have
misunderstood. Did you say you know where there's an availability
of tests and/or PPEs?
REPRESENTATIVE ROMMEL: Yes, sir, I do, and I talked to
Jamie Cunningham yesterday. I talked to the CEO of --
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: You don't have to say it today.
I mean, you can if you wish. But I just -- I would like to make a
proclamation or a statement that if anybody knows where there's an
availability of any additional test kits and/or PPEs, please get that
information to the officials, your county commission. I'm sure we'll
all accept that information and pass it on, so --
REPRESENTATIVE ROMMEL: We gave -- I gave that
information yesterday to both of them.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Perfect. Thank you very
much. I just -- you brought it up, and I was like, oomph. I want to
make sure that there isn't somebody else sitting out there with a
stockpile somewhere.
REPRESENTATIVE ROMMEL: Thanks.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Robert Weeks, followed
by Corey C-r-a, last name starts. Don't see him either. I do see
Thomas Turner.
Come up on, Mr. Turner.
He's been ceded three additional minutes from Nick Turner, and
because of the rare nature of the day, we just confirmed that the other
Mr. Turner was here when we took the speaker slips. He's probably
just in another room.
So you'll have six minutes. And you'll be followed by Jacob
Winge.
MR. TURNER: It won't take me long. Hey, thank the Board. I
March 27, 2020
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appreciate all you-all. I know it's busy. It's hectic. It's hectic for
everybody. People are definitely nervous about the virus.
I want to thank you-all for letting us continue on with the
construction. I would ask that the county and the city continue on
with the permitting process and being able to let their employees
come and continue evaluating the plans and get them out and get
them done. We did our first virtual inspection yesterday with the
city. It went well. And it has put a lot of pressure on a lot of people,
and I know that people are really concerned about this virus.
Coronavirus has been around for centuries. I don't have to tell
you like a doctor, but if you read on the back of these things, it says
corona, and it didn't get on there yesterday. It's been around for a
while. This is a different strand.
I know that 300 million people died from smallpox. I'm a little
bit older than some of you in here but not as old as some. I'm been
around about 65 years, and I've lived all my life right here in Naples.
And I have went and got every vaccine that has been available that
was done, and my mom dragged me down there, whether it was ones
to get a shot or it was taken by mouth vaccine.
I know that there is -- a lot of the younger people don't believe
in these vaccines. They believe they're detrimental to their children
or hurt them or they get a situation where they don't develop correctly
mentally or physically, but it outweighs not getting it.
I'm standing here today, and I know that without these vaccines,
a lot of you would be not here either today and dying. And so people
need to get the vaccine, and hopefully they'll have one for this. It's
bad.
I don't know the man that stood up here and said that, you know,
two-million-plus people were going to die. That would be 800
people a day going to start falling to get to two million by the end of
the year, and we've already been three months into this.
March 27, 2020
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And most of this virus and stuff, yeah, it's airborne. It's
transmitted by the air, because if it started in China, it didn't jump in
Naples, Florida, by virtually getting in the air and getting here.
People transported themselves to different countries and different
aspects. People have family lives. Chinese people have family lives.
They've been traveling back and forth.
This heavy virus that has hit Italy over there. That's the
Northern District of Italy that Chinese decided to buy out to get into
this clothing line and to different fabrics, and they bought the mills
and stuff. They brought 370,000 people, and they come from that
district of Wu [sic] that you're talking about. Because we've studied
all this to figure out how a lot of this is.
So them people went back and forth since October. So they
flew back and forth to their country. And they're no different than us
as Americans. We love our families. We like to have them ties. We
like to communicate with them. That's how a lot of this virus has got
here to the U.S.
I think that if a lot of the flying stopped today -- and I know it
can't, but if it did, people would stay into the districts that they are
and the counties that they're in.
The county that you talked about in Albany, Georgia, that's
where my uncle, which was Charlie Brown -- they was in the U.S.
Air Force. That's a military area. And you know what happens when
military people travel. Them people there do not too good at
distancing. But with the military, you're going to end up traveling,
and people are going to get exposed.
Two -- a couple of Navy sailors got off over in Vietnam, young
and probably immature. Went into town and ended up picking this
virus up, brought it back to the carrier. They've since took them off.
Thank goodness. You infect 5,000 people on one carrier.
But we need to be careful. And you don't -- you know, I know
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that we love to be -- as Americans we love to go and get together, but
I think that distancing is a criteria for it. But I think that -- I don't
know that shutting all of the counties down, whether it be Collier or
Lee, is going to help. I think that it's only going to be left up to the
physicians and our scientists to find something of a vaccine that
would help.
But you're going to see much more people die. I mean, they're
already infected. If you do the math, you do 15 today, and you get to
the 14th day and he goes over here and another guy hits him, there is
nothing that says that he won't get it 15 more days later. Then he's
got to go into that. He comes out of it, walks out of the hospital,
bumps into his buddy that's come to see his buddy, talks to him, has
communication, 15 more days. We're 45 days in for one person.
They haven't said whether that's going to go away.
You know -- and people are wearing masks, but when people are
speaking, a lot of times there is a certain amount of moisture coming
from your mouth that gets into your eye, and your eye's the most
susceptible place on your body to get stuff and is really contagious.
But thank you for all that you're doing. I'd say right now that I
would relook at all of this before I did a vote, and -- because there's a
lot of people going to get left out, and there's going to be a lot of
lawsuits, you know, and the courthouse will be full of them from just
what we've been told today from people's rights.
Thank you-all for what you-all been doing.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jacob Winge. He'll be
followed by Daniel Wassermann, then Carolyn Johnson, and Terri
Caspersen.
MR. WINGE: Good afternoon. For the record, Jacob Winge.
Thank you, Commissioners, for allowing time to speak today.
I'll be brief, as I think there's going to be a re-convenience on this
issue, and I hope that some of the issues that the people have brought
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up with the ordinance, if you do choose to pass it, that those are
included.
The one thing that I would just ask is that you try to balance the
need to protect those most vulnerable, continue to provide resources
to our healthcare providers, those that are out there, whether it's
medical supply companies trying to get supplies here, logistics and so
forth, while also balancing the need to protect the backbone of our
economy and small businesses.
In a large fashion, if we take more steps than are necessary too
early at a time, I think that we're going to see consequences
economically in our community that are going to be very hard to
repair and step back from.
So thank you again for the time to speak today.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Daniel Wassermann,
followed by Carolyn Johnson, followed by Terri Caspersen.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Maybe you better go out on
more than four.
MR. MILLER: I'm saving some of these names that haven't
responded. We'll go over them again at the end. Shea duPont.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Oh, here's somebody.
MR. MILLER: Are you Ms. Caspersen? Pardon me? Oh,
Carolyn Johnson?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: There she is. Yes.
MR. MILLER: Come right on up. Yes, ma'am. And if David
R. Forward is in the house, you would be on deck, sir.
MS. JOHNSON: Good afternoon. For the record, I am Carolyn
Johnson with Goodwill Industries of Southwest Florida. Thank
you-all for hearing all of our comments today.
I'm here on behalf of Goodwill Industries also to say that for 53
years we have been serving the five-county area of Southwest
Florida, and Collier County, of course, being a very important and
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big part of our mission services. So just letting you-all know that we
are here as we've always been in emergency situations and any type
of situation as a community partner, and we support any decision that
you come and you come to a conclusion with, we're here as a
community partner to help you.
But to bring to light that we do have areas, we do have store
locations where our parking lot, where our drive-through centers
could lend in help of distribution centers in case of emergencies.
Something to think about down the line as we progress through this
situation. So I just wanted to put that out there that we could help in
that way as an emergency partner should you come to that
conclusion.
The other thing that I wanted to let you-all know is that our
CEO, John Nadeau, has been on calls on a regular basis every day
with CEOs across the country, other Goodwill CEOs across the
country. And so we've been on the front lines to see what happens
when people shelter in place, when our stores close, our donation
centers close, and it's really not a pretty site.
So I'm here to bring to light that we have 25 locations in the
Southwest Florida area. We have eight in Collier County. And we
want you to consider that as an essential service that we be able to
stay open and manage those donations.
We get about a thousand donations a day coming in to Collier
County. And what happens is that people do drop things off, and if
it's not managed and attended, you've got a looting problem. You've
got stealing. You've got critters that come in and about. So we really
want to be good stewards. We want to be able to keep our
community safe and be able to manage those donations through this
crisis.
So we ask for your consideration as an essential service to keep
our donation centers open for Collier County.
March 27, 2020
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Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Terri Caspersen, followed
by Shea duPont, David Forward, and then Dean Sarns.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I'm sorry. If any of those
individuals are here, if they could -- the next person could come up to
the microphone so we could --
MR. MILLER: And I've got them trying to bring people down
from the other viewing areas as we have some seats opening up.
Yeah.
MS. CASPERSEN: I'm Terri Caspersen, and as you heard from
the doctors, they recommend overreacting. And my concern is they
talked about two weeks will not end this. How long will it take for it
to end?
And my question to you is, how are the commissioners going to
address the needs of the people that cannot afford their medications,
lifesaving medications?
In my situation, my son is a Type 1 diabetic. And you all know
that insulin has gone up exponentially, and people have been
rationing insulin for -- all across the country. So if we have people
that can't afford it now, what will happen if people go in lockdown
and they can't afford their medications? So I'm just wondering how
you're going to address that.
I have a couple other concerns as well, and I will mention they
talked about shutting down pawn shops. The people that use pawn
shops are the people that need that money. And are you going to
require the pawn shops to let the people that have their items there
get it? Because they have their items there because they're trying to
buy food. I mean, yeah, I'm sure they're trying to buy other things,
too, but a lot of people are in economic hard times as well, and if
the -- you know, the whole tourism industry has affected our servers,
you know, our bartenders.
March 27, 2020
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I'm a dental hygienist. I'm not working now because we're
trying to save the PPEs. But I tried to apply for unemployment. It
took me three days. And I still have to get ahold of unemployment to
confirm my Social Security or my identity. I have not been able to
get through. And you only have a certain amount of time or they're
going to drop your application.
So there's a lot of things that need to be considered here for our
working class here in town as well.
So that's what I had to say. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Shea duPont. David R.
Forward. I've been told we have no more people upstairs. They're all
either here or in the hallway. So I'm thinking some of these people
might have left. Dean Sarns.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: He's here.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Sarns will be followed by Derek
Verderamo, am I saying that right, sir?
MR. SARNS: Thank you for caring about the community.
I'm Dean Sarns. I moved here in '79. I have made medical tools
for many years. And you would not believe the tool misuse I have
seen.
Industrial hygienists are the expert, not doctors. The doctor that
testified today had a beard. A beard makes a PPE ineffective. N95
masks are no good for medical use. If they were, we would not hear
of sick healthcare workers.
They trap 95 percent of the viruses, letting 5 percent through. If
a condom leaked 5 percent, would you call that birth control? A
mask leaking 5 percent viruses will get you sick. Physicians need
P100 filters. If needed, get gas masks from the military. These 95
masks and face shields are filling the landfills.
In the 1970s, Venezuela recleaned and reused tubing sets for
open heart surgery in IV bags. Our hospitals can clean and reuse face
March 27, 2020
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shields that never touch the patient.
The N95 masks need to be used by citizens. Doctors need to use
PARR [sic] battery-powered respirators. It's a helmet with an
integral face shield. And please require people to have some
covering over their mouth in public. I mean, this could be a
bandanna that they could cough through.
And the open businesses, just have them check people's
temperature and don't allow people with fevers in the businesses, and
maybe even consider a roadblock, a roving type roadblock.
And, you know, tips for people like, take vitamin C, deep
breathing. They don't stress this enough because people aren't
breathing deep enough, and your body can't clean these out.
So thank you.
MR. MILLER: Next, Derek Verderamo. Sir, I want to make
sure I understand your wishes. Are -- the other three people under
the list after you, they want to cede time to you, or do they all want to
speak?
MR. VERDERAMO: They want to speak briefly. I'm going to
be very brief.
MR. MILLER: Okay. So you will be followed by John Dalia,
then Jose Nunez.
MR. VERDERAMO: Yes, and then Eric Solomon would be the
other one.
MR. MILLER: Yes, please.
MR. VERDERAMO: My name is Derek Verderamo.
MR. MILLER: On mic, please.
MR. OCHS: Pull that mic a little closer.
MR. VERDERAMO: My name is Derek Verderamo. I'm an
attorney in town. I'm here on behalf of First Pawn Jewelry and Loan,
as well as Pine Ridge Pawn.
I understand that there may be some changes to the proposed
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order that's in place. But I'm here to talk specifically about
Paragraph 8.g, which excludes pawn shops, and to point out -- and
I've sent emails of those 2,500 emails that you guys have. All
commissioners have emails from me, which will include my exhibits
that I'm going to address.
Specifically, Broward County and Miami-Dade County initially
ordered that pawn shops should be excluded from the order, then they
subsequently, a few days later, excluded -- excuse me -- prohibited
changing the language allowing pawn shops to actually be an
essential business. And the basis was -- and I've included -- Mayor
Carlos Giminez from Miami-Dade indicated that under the Patriot
Act they are considered financial institutions.
And, specifically, under Paragraph 16, it would be in direct
conflict of what a federal statutes enables, which is Statute 31,
U.S.C., 5312, which is going to be in your emails. And by doing so,
this order would be in direct conflict of the federal act.
Also draw attention to Commissioner Solis' analogy of the
balloon. Pawn shops are open in Broward County. They're open in
Miami-Dade County. Someone would drive across the Alley, go
pledge an item, come right back. Circumvents the purpose of the
order.
I'm going to have Mr. Solomon as well as Mr. Dalia come up
and speak to you. Specifically, they're the owners of the
establishments and the purpose and what there entails and what they
intend to do. There are three owners in town, and two of them are
here present today.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is John Dalia, followed by
Jose Nunez, then Eric Solomon.
MR. DALIA: Hi. John Dalia. I've been a pawn shop owner for
20 years. Been here through many of hurricanes and helped people
March 27, 2020
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after that.
With the kind of unemployment we're going to see -- and I know
the government's working on getting them people money, but people
are going to fall through the cracks, and we're there for those people.
And hopefully, sooner than later, they'll get a cure for this, and
people are going to need money for that as well.
And you can't walk into BB&T and say I need $50 to get a
prescription. They'll laugh at you. But that's what we provide. We
provide that quick loan service for the unbanked people and the
unemployed people and people a lot of times that get forgotten.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Jose Nunez, followed by
Eric Solomon, and then Michelle Kelly.
MR. NUNEZ: Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for being
here today.
First, I want to say to the county commissioners, none of this is
your fault, as we all know, and I know that you're all trying to do
something about it. I think everyone who's here -- sometimes people
take the position of you're trying to shut down Collier County and,
obviously, you-all are the least interested in doing that. So, thank
you for holding this -- this forum today.
I think that this order is, we've established, and I think all of
you, just by looking at your faces for the last couple hours, I think
agree it's premature, and it's entirely up in the air in the sense that
we're going to create more problems than we are going to solve.
I never would have thought that there was going to be someone here
advocating here on behalf of appliance stores and, sure enough,
several valid concerns.
I think that if the enforcement tool the county's going to use is a
$500 ordinance violation, Alfie Oakes is going to keep all of his
employees open -- I'm sorry -- all of his stores open. He's going to
March 27, 2020
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pay all of his employees, and he's just going to pay the county $500 a
day.
There's no teeth to this, and I don't think also that, even if there
were, this is necessarily the right way to go about it. I find it to be
arbitrary.
Pawn stores, for example -- and the reason that I'm here, as a
member of my firm stated, pawn stores provide an essential service.
The County Attorney referred to it as retail. Walmart's retail. Pawn
stores aren't retail. They may be retail in the sense that if I bring a
TV because I need money to get gas, somebody might come in after
me and get a deal on that TV.
But if we put as many people out of business as we're talking
about putting out of business, pawn stores are going to be an essential
part of keeping this community running. And might I add, it's not
public -- it's not a public assistance program.
If I go into First Florida Integrity Bank and I see my banker, Bill
Growel, and I say, here's my Rolex. Can I have $1,000? Bill's going
to say no. Meanwhile, people who need financial assistance and have
items of value need an outlet in which to sell them.
So I think what we're doing here today is pouring water on a
grease fire. I think we're going to create more problems than we're
solving. With that said, I do believe absolutely that something has to
be done.
My mom is a cancer survivor. She has a compromised immune
system. She hasn't left the house in a few weeks. Something has to
be done, whether it's limiting the number of people who go into
businesses or other such requirements.
I don't know how we decide that it's fair for a dry cleaner to
operate as an essential business but a pawn store isn't, or why we
need pet stores and Walmart. I don't know how you decide one way
or another, and it sounds like Mr. Ochs is going to be that person to
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have to make those decisions and effectively put people out of
business.
And I submit to you that it would be entirely arbitrary what's
essential and what isn't, because to every business owner in this town,
their business is essential.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Eric Solomon, followed by
Michelle Kelly, and then Tom Henning.
MR. SOLOMON: Good afternoon. My name is Eric Solomon.
I live here in Naples. Have for about 15 years.
I own and operate First Pawn Jewelry and Loan. We're open
9:00 to 8:00. We service about 250 people a day. Most actually
come in for a loan. Come to shop, look around a little bit, but we're
not as retail as maybe it was made out to be earlier that the
representative there stated.
Most of what we see are 200 to $300 tickets that are property
that was pledged on behalf of that.
When they come back, they pay a small fee. We have started
setting up a number of things to build a barrier that would probably
be similar to the barriers that Walmart are setting up. That will help
with some of the CDC type regulations and so forth.
Our industry services a clientele base that maybe you don't see
every day, or maybe you do and you don't look their way. They're
your neighbor, quite frankly. I see a lot of people that maybe have
really good jobs, maybe don't have jobs at all.
I just implore you to consider keeping us open. We'd appreciate
your opportunities there.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Michelle Kelly followed
by Tom Henning.
Ms. Kelly?
(No response.)
March 27, 2020
Page 97
MR. MILLER: Mr. Henning, please come up. And after him,
Mr. Chair or Vice Chair, if you don't mind, I'll call these names again
just to make sure, but I do believe they're gone.
Mr. Henning.
MR. HENNING: Good afternoon, Commissioners. Tom
Henning.
I find it quite interesting your last direction was -- and you all
agreed to it -- is to see what Lee County's going to do as a regional
basis for trying to prohibit social distancing -- or create more social
distancing, and you came back as a single county resolution
prohibiting some businesses. I don't understand how that happens.
But it does include the municipalities, and I don't see City Council
from Everglades or Naples here to weigh in on this.
Your county attorney stated he does not know in this resolution
is enforceable. He's still not going to know, if you partnership with
Lee County, if it's legally enforceable. You're exposing the taxpayers
of Collier County, because you know you can't limit rentals, and in
this ordinance, short-term rentals are in there as limiting it.
You just heard that pawn shops is an essential business, but it's
in this ordinance. What else is in this -- not in this ordinance besides
retail businesses?
So what I implore you to do today is vote no not only on this
resolution -- excuse me, not ordinance, resolution -- but let the
governor decide what is in the best interest of all the residents in the
great state of Florida. He has my interest, and he has your interest in
this, everybody's interest. So that's what I really would like you to
do.
Let me tell you that -- I have a friend of mine, single mom, two
kids, takes care of her 82-year-old father. She's a hairdresser. She
doesn't work. She's out of a job. And you know what, in the
downturn of the economy, that was the time that she can afford a
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house. She has her own house. How long is she going to keep this --
her own house if she's not working? She's going to get some money
from the federal government.
Now, she's going to pawn off her motorcycle, I'm sure. I don't
know whether it's going to be in Dade County or not.
The girl that cuts my hair is the girl that I went to school with. I
talked to her today and asked her if she had any supplies that I could
provide to her to keep her safe? Her shop closed down Tuesday.
So we are already social distancing from each other and through
businesses, so it's working.
Please, I implore you, let the governor make that decision.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Antonio Dumornay?
MR. DUMORNAY: Good morning, everybody. Good
morning -- afternoon, everybody.
I've been following this whole thing. I've been at work. I'm
here to speak on behalf of a lot of employees.
No disrespect to the business community, but a lot of people are
really freaking out right now. I'm not going to discredit anyone and
whatever they had to say about regular flu seasons and so forth and
things like that.
What we're seeing right now is that a lot of people are out of
work. They're freaking out because they went two weeks without
pay. They're waiting for government to deliver a check of $1,200.
By that time it will be long gone before they're even able to keep up
with anything that they have.
So for the employees, I urge that commissioners here, you
should try to find a way to try to suspend mortgage or rent payments.
A lot of companies and businesses can forward to keep open and
operate while a lot of people who are home, that's employees, they
cannot.
March 27, 2020
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So we have to come to the table with some type of agreement
that can benefit the business company -- the business industry and
small businesses along with employees as well.
I hear a lot of talk about businesses, but I hear so little talk for
the employees that's out of the work right now. It's really freaking a
lot of people out. We see a lot of top officials talk about this
COVID-19 at a very high level, and I feel like we should take, you
know, dramatic measures on assuring people that they, you know,
still can live in their homes. And if any real estate company or
agency tries to put anybody out at this moment would be a shame on
the -- on the part of the county.
And also, I truly don't believe in the shutdown. Why? Because
the governor hasn't done it. Everybody is out here uncoordinated
doing their own thing. How do we look if we shut down and Fort
Myers doesn't? How do we look if we shut down and Key West
doesn't? Everything continues to still move and still spread.
Nobody's in here, not really a doctor or an epidemiologist, so
what are we to do? We look crazy.
So I just wanted to make sure that you guys know on the behalf
of employees that we should focus on suspending rent and mortgage
payments, and also come to an agreeable platform where we can help
businesses and employees at the same time.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, I do believe that's all the
speakers we have here. I'd like to call these one more time.
Michelle Kelly?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: Daniel Wassermann?
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: Robert Weeks?
(No response.)
March 27, 2020
Page 100
MR. MILLER: And Corey, last name begins C-r-a.
(No response.)
MR. MILLER: And we don't have any people in any other
rooms, so I do believe they've left, sir. And that would conclude our
speakers.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Okay. Thank you.
Sir, if you're in the back and you want to speak, you have to fill
out a slip, and I would -- you can find that out later. Thank you.
Okay. Commissioner Saunders, I will turn the gavel back to you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Thank you, Commissioner Solis.
We're at the stage at this point on deciding what is our next step,
if any, quite frankly, in going forward. I really wanted to have this
hearing so that we could at least begin the process, even if we don't
take action on something today, that we would at least hear what the
issues are and be in a position to make some decisions rather rapidly
if it becomes necessary to do so.
And I'll give you an example. My nephew is -- works at Lee
Health, and he just sent me a text. A 39-year-old man just died, one
of his patients, and there's a nurse, a 34-year-old nurse, who's on a
ventilator because of this disease. And my concern, and I've stated
this many times, is we have to flatten that curve and protect the
people that are out there protecting us.
And this proposed order, I agree there are all kinds of issues
with it, and we can fix that, potentially, if there's an appetite on the
Board to move forward with something next week. I can meet with
and speak with Chairman Hamman before and after his meeting next
week to see what they're going to do. But I'd like to convey to them
what our concerns are and where we are on this.
So, you know, I want to get to everyone's comments and then
get to a suggestion as to what we do going forward, whether it be a
continuance, and have another meeting next week.
March 27, 2020
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So I'm going to open it up to the commissioners for your
comments and your thoughts and suggestions. And I'll start off with
Commissioner Fiala and just go down the list again as we have in the
past and just see how -- what your thoughts are.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. I do not agree with this at all,
and I think that we -- the seniors -- people were concerned with
seniors. The seniors are so afraid of this. They're very conscientious.
I think that they're going to stay in if they don't feel right about going
out. I think that there are too many downsides to this, so I would not
want to vote for this at all.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. And what about in terms of
potential considerations after we hear from Lee County; is that
something you would be interested in pursuing or not?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: What kind of considerations?
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Well, again, at our last
conversation about this on Tuesday I had suggested the possibility of
a regional approach. I don't know that Lee County will have an
interest in that, and I don't know that Collier County has an interest in
that, but that's my question. Should we continue to pursue those
conversations? Obviously, nothing is done until both boards meet
and make their independent decisions. But my question is, do you
feel that I should continue to have those conversations with Lee
County?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I feel very confident in our own
home rule, and I prefer not to depend on some other county to make
decisions for us. So, no, I don't agree.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Commissioner Solis.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Just for everyone's information, I'm
on the Canvassing Board, and today is the last meeting for the
primary, the presidential preference primary, so I have to leave at
5:00. Hopefully we'll be done by then.
March 27, 2020
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Again, as I said last Tuesday, I think that being in
communication with Lee County is the right thing to do. We
experienced it with the beach closures, that when Lee County closed
their beaches and the City of Naples closed their beaches, a lot of
people went to Vanderbilt and -- because it was the only thing that
was open. If we -- if something happens that we're not aware of, we
will be caught flatfooted. That's not something that I think we can
take the risk of because of what's at stake.
I think that, yes, I would like the Chairman to continue
conversations with Lee County, see what's -- what they're thinking.
If they're -- if it's imminent and it looks like it's going to happen, at
least we will know about it. I don't know what we'll do about it, but
we will be aware that something's going to happen to the north of us
that is going to impact us.
I think the business community needs some certainty one way or
the other, and we need to, I think, today -- and I'll make this a motion,
that we -- we continue this until Monday or Tuesday -- and I'm open
to either one -- but make the commitment that on Monday or Tuesday
we will decide whether or not we are just going to follow the
governor's lead on how we're dealing with this and what the
governor's executive orders require or we're not, because I think the
uncertainty of we may, we may not, it's -- that is creating damage to
the economy locally in and of itself.
So I would make that a motion that we continue this. We can all
look at all of the testimony that was here today, everything, the 3,000
emails we received, make our suggestions, but -- and my final
comment will be -- so that's my motion, that we do that, and we make
that decision next week once and for all.
If there's some drastic change, obviously, we can always revisit
things, but I think by next week we will have a better idea with what
the numbers are. God willing and the creeks don't rise, the numbers
March 27, 2020
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will not keep going up, and at least we can have some certainty as to
where we're headed, and business owners can start planning that it's
going to happen or it's not going to happen, and all they need to do is
follow the governor. I -- that's my motion.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. We have a motion.
Commissioner Taylor, your comments and thoughts as well.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: I'm going to second that motion
for discussion, okay. I just -- I don't want this to die because there's a
lack of a second, because there's a lot of good --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: We were going to -- believe me,
we weren't going to let the motion die. I just want to give everybody
time.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Because there's a lot of very
good points in what you're saying.
I really think going forward we have to give the business
community certainty. There's no question. If I've heard that over the
last 24 hours, I heard it again. Please, just do -- just give us -- give us
dates.
I am very reluctant -- first of all, let me repeat. My number-one
job is the safety of everybody that lives in Collier County. There is
no question the health, safety, and welfare, that is what's in the
forefront of my mind every day, and this epidemic has made it even
more critical to me and more aware of the decisions we make up here
and what could happen.
But for the -- I just don't understand how when you exempt 35
business types -- and rightly so. We've heard the importance of other
businesses that will support our people here -- how is this going to
protect our people? I don't understand it.
Social distancing is extremely important. I am deemed essential
by the County Attorney. I called him before this meeting, because I
wasn't going to show up. I'm -- look, I'm 70 years old. I'm one of
March 27, 2020
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those people at risk.
And he said I was essential. And I -- I made a decision to be
here because I think it's very important to face the people to say, yes,
there's tremendous fear right now. There is. But we will get through
this. And I think -- for me, I think we need to follow the governor's
lead on this. I don't think -- and if it means what we make a decision,
we meet next week, we have to.
Now, clearly, we closed the beaches -- and I was one of the
people that really wanted to close those beaches because they were
closing them in Miami-Dade, and we knew what was going to happen
and, sure enough, it did. So that was a very important reason, and I
agree with the analogy of the balloon.
So we do have to become cognizant of what our neighbors are
doing. But for those who are worried about closing our roads and
closing our airports because New York and Miami-Dade aren't here, I
probably would ask you to take a look at the license plates driving
around.
Be that as it may, we have to, in this time of crisis, have to have
numbers and directions we depend on. It just can't be -- we can't
make these decisions in a vacuum. And I would urge that we do
follow the governor's lead, that whatever the -- and the CDC, what
the CDC says about social distancing, what they're saying about the
numbers, look at the data every day and make decisions, but not to --
and, again, I would say for your motion, Commissioner Solis, I think
that we -- I think it's a good motion, and I think that the idea of giving
businesses certainty -- but I also would like to say that I think we
need to follow the governor and the CDC's guidelines to help us
through there. They're the experts. We're not.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. Commissioner McDaniel?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Yes, thank you.
March 27, 2020
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I concur with you, Commissioner Taylor. I'm not sure I'm in
support of continuing this. I am not in favor of approving it,
certainly, today.
I've already expressed my concerns with regard to the
constitutionality, the legality with regard to this. I again -- I'm not the
lawyer in the bunch of lawyers, as the case may be, but I can see
contradictions and ambiguities. I can see -- I can see where it's quite
arbitrary as to who we're allowing to pick or not. I can see that there
are issues with regard to the capacity, and it's putting our county
manager in an unenviable position with regard to the discussion of
who can apply out of and not with regard to whether you're not an
essential service or business.
I would like to offer all of residents some certainty. I would like
to -- if our board -- and I concur with Commissioner Fiala. I'm not. I
care about Lee County, but I don't want to base our decisions on
what's going on, but I do think our chairman and our county manager
ought to continue to talk with Lee County, because what have I asked
for since the beginning of time? Since we became aware of this
silent enemy, I have asked for data. When's mass testing going to be
available? When's mass testing going to be available? We need to
have additional data in order to make our decisions.
Certainly -- so I can't -- I can't support the ordinance. I would
rather -- it would -- if it were up to me that we continue this
indefinitely, I would rather that -- and we've already proven today,
Mr. Chairman, that we can whip up a meeting pretty quickly if the
data that's coming at us changes.
I would rather that we continue to follow the CDC's guidelines
and the governor of our state with those -- with those executive
orders to practice social distancing. I would rather we continue to
educate our population on the value of those social distancing
practices and increases in our sanitations and such.
March 27, 2020
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I think it's incumbent upon the government to do that, not
dictate, not pick and choose winners and losers. I think it's our
responsibility. I think from an offering of solidity to our business
community and our residents -- and this is something that's so
important. The humanity that is being dealt with right now is
unfathomable to me.
I spoke to some folks this morning. I'm not personally in the
higher-risk category. I certainly -- I can't even begin to imagine the
level of fear that folks are experiencing that are. But I think an
ordinance like this -- I even said it today. Lee County's suggestion of
a voluntary closure of nonessential businesses creates divisiveness. It
allows for personal choice and personal judgment of morality to be
imposed upon me because of what you -- I'm pointing to you; you're
sitting there -- because of what you perceive as moral with regard to
my conduct and potential exposure to you.
And so with that, if we were feeling the need to do something,
one of the things that I have thought about for quite some time would
be to protect that most -- statistically, the one dataset that no one can
necessarily argue with is there is a percentage of our population who
is highest at risk, and I believe that's our responsibility to protect
those people.
And if -- we should -- it should be incumbent upon us to reach in
and protect our most vulnerable population. And if our board were
interested in doing anything today, I would support a stay-at-home
order for those of the highest-risk category of our population, if that
was even necessary. It's imperative to me, I believe, that we continue
on with our efforts to educate our population. I got a lot of notes
here.
I also -- I also want to say this. I heard -- I can't recall her name
right now, but she's on the task force, and she talked about the
personal responsibility of the individual to impose isolation upon
March 27, 2020
Page 107
themselves should you become symptomatic. It's incumbent upon
the individual, when you become symptomatic, to remove yourself
from your loved ones and your workplace. Don't go visit Grandpa
and Grandma.
We know for a fact there are people that can carry the virus that
are asymptomatic. And until mass testing is, in fact, available, you
can't necessarily tell whether you're carrying it or not.
So it would be my vote today to continue this item. I'll vote for
the continuance till Monday till Tuesday, but I think we're just
kicking the can down the road. I would rather we continue this
indefinitely, and as data continues to flow in, then we make our
decisions accordingly based upon -- based upon fact, based upon
data.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: I just have a question for
Commissioner McDaniel so I understand what he's getting at.
So if the data comes in, we make the decision to do what? To
do an ordinance or -- because it sounds to me like the -- we have an
ordinance. It's got a lot of issues, in my opinion, as well. It's an
exception -- I mean, it's a rule that's swallowed by the exceptions.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Right.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: So are you saying if the data comes
back, we reconsider this, or are we just going to say that we're going
to follow the governor's lead? And on that point, I -- one of the
things I'd like some clarification on -- and maybe this can -- I don't
know who can help me with this, but I vaguely remember the
governor saying that what he didn't want to do was a one-size-fits-all
kind of an order from the governor's office for each county. That's
different than saying the county shouldn't be doing any of it.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I didn't say that.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: No, no. I'm not saying you said
that. This is a question that I have suddenly when I'm thinking about
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this.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: For me or with regard to what
I was saying? Because you went down a different --
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Right. I'm sorry. I'm trying to get
it all in, because I've got to run, and I want to get to this vote. No.
But I'm trying understand if you're saying if the data comes back we
reconsider this order, or do we just put any kind of stay-at-home
order to bed?
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: And I would say if I had to
vote today, I would rather do that. If we had to do -- I would rather
put this to bed now and not have a stay-at-home order put in place. I
believe there's enough -- I believe there are enough protections that
are, in fact, in place with the continued education and the
enforcement -- the ramping up of the law enforcement with regard to
asking people to curtail their activities and the like, we have
sufficiently covered what we need to do.
I would prefer that. Now -- but on the same token, data's
everything. I mean, while we've been sitting here, information's been
flowing at me with regard to decisions that are being made all over
this country.
Yesterday, Governor Cuomo came out and admitted that he's not
quite sure that it was such a great idea to shut down the state,
Commissioner Solis. And so --
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: So let me just -- maybe I can cut
this off then. I will amend my motion to just say that we are not
going to consider this stay-at-home order, and we're going to follow
the governor's recommendations. That's what we're doing today.
And if something changes drastically next week, we'll come back
here on an emergency basis.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: If you would -- I would second
that if you would amend it also by saying the governor's and the
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Page 109
CDC's. Include the CDC.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: And the CDC's as well.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Third.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. Let me interrupt for just
a second. So we have a motion and a second to not move forward
with a stay-at-home order or -- in the material that has been
presented. And what I would suggest is that in terms of a future
meeting, that any member of the County Commission can call for an
emergency meeting.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Correct.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And so I'm going to rely on the
four of you. If there is an emergency that comes up and you feel that
we have to have a meeting, then I want you to free to call that
meeting, and I will feel free to do the same, because I felt free to do --
to call this meeting.
In terms of meeting with Lee County officials, Mr. Solis, I
assume that you would still want me to do that to just keep in touch
with what's going on.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: And I can do that. If that's the
position of the Board, I have no problem. I don't need that as part of
the motion. I'm assuming that that's not going to be a problem for
anybody for me to continue communicating.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: I think that was part of our
motion on Tuesday, Mr. Chair. I don't mean to interrupt, but we gave
you that authority on Tuesday, and I don't remember discontinuing it.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. And, you know, I don't
want to bring everybody back on this issue until there's a change in
position on some of the commissioners' parts. And so I recognize
that this ordinance -- this order was very mushy, and -- but I felt that
this conversation was necessary, that we needed to at least consider
March 27, 2020
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what, if anything, we were going to do.
And I'm proud of this commission for the conduct of the
hearing. I'm proud of the people that came to this meeting and
presented their position. I do personally believe that we need to do
more, but at the same time I recognize that that is a very, very
slippery slope and a very difficult thing to do. And so I would
encourage all of you to keep up with the data, think about what, if
anything, we should or could do down the road if necessary so that if
there is another meeting, you know, we'll be more prepared to do
that.
Unless there are other comments, then I'm going to call for the
vote. Are there any other comments before we vote?
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: One more comment from me --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And one from me.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: -- and I promise that this will be the
last one.
I've changed my motion. And this not coming back here to
consider an order in my opinion's going to depend upon everybody in
Collier County taking responsibility for doing everything each one of
us can to go by the social distancing requirements from the CDC --
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Good point.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: -- and what the governor has --
otherwise, we could be back.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Amen.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Commissioner Taylor?
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: And just one thing, sir. When
you -- when you -- if you could give us a brief, a written brief -- and I
don't expect you to write, you know, chapters on what -- just keep us
up to date in writing on what's going on in Lee County based on your
conversations up there, that would be very helpful.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Okay. I will communicate with
March 27, 2020
Page 111
Mr. Ochs and make sure that there's an email sent out --
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Great.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: -- to everybody.
I will know more about what Lee County's going to do, I think,
at 9:00 on Monday morning. So we will all see that.
I'm going to support this motion because I want there to be a
united front from our commission, but I think it's important. I'm glad
we had this hearing. There are thousands of people that are watching
and are very nervous, and we've gotten some good information out,
and the public knows that if necessary any one of us can call another
meeting at a moment's notice, and Commissioner Solis' comments
about social distancing, if we start to see a peak and we have to take
more drastic measures, then we can revisit all of this.
So with that, all in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER SOLIS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER TAYLOR: Aye.
COMMISSIONER McDANIEL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: That passes unanimously.
Everyone be safe, and thank you for your service, and we'll be
talking, I'm sure, about this for many, many weeks to come.
Unless there's something else for the good of the order --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I just want to say I'm so pleased
with the way we came out. That was good.
CHAIRMAN SAUNDERS: All right. If there's nothing else,
then this meeting is adjourned. Thank you.
March 27, 2020
*****
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 4:43 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
BURT SAUNDERS, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST
CRYSTAL K. KINZEL, CLERK
QC -%.N.Qck- •
a-...OM1
st as to:Cpa n
sig`ire only
These minutes approved by the Board on Li lao la-&o, as
presented or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF FORT MYERS
COURT REPORTING BY TERRI LEWIS, FPR, COURT
REPORTER AND NOTARY PUBLIC.
Page 112