Allura - minutes from the Jan 17th Planning meeting
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Allura - minutes from the Jan 17th Planning meeting
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Allura - minutes from the Jan 17th Planning meeting
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Subject: Allura - minutes from the Jan 17th Planning meeting
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Tim Diegel
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Allura - minutes from the Jan 17th Planning meeting
Hi Commissioner, here are 2 pages from the minutes regarding the effect of the traffic from Allura according to the developer. Elsewhere they stated that there would be no significant
increase in traffic from Allura. Basically it says that only 25% of the 600+ residents will leave during the 2 hour rush hour. Commissioner Strain debated this with the representative
and never received a credible answer. He and others voted against Allura. For some reason, others voted for it probably due to personal reasons. Thanks, Tim Diegel
Begin forwarded message:
From: Tim Diegel <timdiegel@mac.com <mailto:timdiegel@mac.com> >
Subject: Traffic
Date: March 9, 2019 at 7:08:03 AM EST
To: Tim Diegel <timdiegel@mac.com <mailto:timdiegel@mac.com> >
5A82905615405F44AE1E585A12D063F4@colliergov.net
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Michael.Brownlee@colliercountyfl.gov
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Tim Diegel
Tim Diegel
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Tim Diegel
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1-17-2019 CCPC minutes (dragged).pdf
January 17,2019 MR. TREESH: Good morning, Ted Treesh with TR Transportation Consultants. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Good morning. MR. TREESH: Good morning. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: You have a peak hour
of 176, and you used ITE manual 221 to get there. MR. TREESH: That's correct. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: If you've got 350 units and you've got2.46 persons per households, that's 861 persons.
Now, this is supposed to be a working essential -- or not essential, but working professional type operation, so I'm assuming all these people are going to go to work. And if they do,
generally work hours are two hours in the morning for peak hour and two hours in the afternoon. So your peak hour is 176, which is only 25 percent of the 861 persons anticipated to
move there by your calculations. So how do you get only 25 percent are hitting the road at peak hour? Because the traffic is one of the driving forces behind this. MR. TREESH: I wish
I could say this is my calculations, but these are the Institute of Transportation Engineers' calculations which we're required to use per the county requirements in terms of trip generation
for this use. ITE, which is Institute of Transportation Engineers, just came out with their 1Oth edition of the ITE Trip Generation Report. And with that 10th edition, they split the
multifamily uses into different land-use codes based on the height of the building because that was determined through the surveys that were conducted, and submitted to ITE to have
an impact on the trip generation. So, again, we're not making these numbers up. These are numbers that were nationally accepted, locally accepted and the estimates that we're required
to use at this time. And I would like to point out that a multifamily use generates -- an apartment use generates significantly less traffic than a single-family use. I mean, it's a
pretty common-sense assumption, but if you think about it, the number of vehicles per unit, the number of persons per unit are significantly less in a rental community than it is in
a single-family detached home and on the realm of almost half in terms of the daily trips. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Did you use land-use 22l,multifamily housing, mid-rise for your calculation?
MR. TREESH: That's correct, yes. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. The fourth paragraph of land-use 221 from the manual says, "For the six sites for which both the number of residents and the
number of occupied dwelling units were available, there were an average of 2.46 residents per occupied dwelling units." So, okay, if you've got two-and-a-half people, which is average,
let's say you've got two working people. I mean, at the price range you're in, you probably would need two working people. That's still going to get you to 700 persons, which 25 percent
of that is 176. What happens to the other 75 percent of the people who leave at the peak hour to go to work each day and come back in that apartment complex when you're only saying
a quarter of them are on the road? I just don't know how you get there. And if you're the traffic expert and you can't answer it, then maybe our staff can when I bring them up. MR.
TREESH: Perhaps. But, again, you're asking me to delve into data that was collected and assimilated by ITE, and they don't survey every single resident of a community. They survey the
driveways going into and out, and these are the traffic characteristics that this type of use exhibits. Where those specific people go at what time of the day, I mean, there's many
answers. I mean, people can work different shifts where they don't leave during the peak hours. There's all kinds of answers to that question that would -- but as with any land use
in ITE, the data that is in there is based on actual surveys of these land uses, and that's the data that is in there and what we Page 40 of 79
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January 17,2019 use. So the specific answers as to how those trips are distributed throughout the day and into the peak hour can vary, and the answers could be very wide ranging. CHAIRMAN
STRAIN: Did you realize that the traffic might be an issue for this project in its determination for today's hearing? MR. TREESH: What project -CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Allura, the one we're
talking about. MR. TREESH: What project is traffic not an issue? CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. So you expected traffic questions today. Obviously, that's why you're here. MR. TREESH: Yes.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Why wouldn't we have wanted to know how you got to that number based on the population of that project and why it differs? I mean, you're looking at only a quarter
of the people, and I'm just wondering what analysis you might have done to do that. And a second analysis I was wondering if you did, obviously, when we have apartments for working
people, professionals, whatever you want to call them, living in the urban area closer to where they work, that's going to take traffic off other sections of our roads -MR. TREESH:
That's correct. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: -- which desperately needs that done. But did you do a survey to determine where your market is for these people and the distances that we -- they're
going to be driving, road segments affected by them, and things like that? Would anybody do an analysis of that magnitude to get there today? MR. TREESH: I did not as part of this application,
no. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Go ahead, Ned. COMMISSIONER FRYER: Is it fair to say that the l0th edition of the ITE tells us nothing whatsoever about Segment 42.1 of Immokalee Road and
the real conditions that are on that segment, correct? MR. TREESH: ITE is the simply the resource we use to -COMMISSIONER FRYER: I know what it is. (Multiple speakers speaking.) MR.
TREESH: -- estimate traffic generation. No, there's not data in ITE about -COMMISSIONER FRYER: It tells us nothing about that segment. Thank you. MR. TREESH: Correct. That's what the
purpose ofthe Traffic Impact Statement is, to assimilate all the data together, and then analyze the roadway links pursuant to the county requirements. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. And the
county requirements, basically, accept the22l and accept the 176 as a multiplier that you used to come to that conclusion that that's how many people will be on the road from that apartment
complex -MR. TREESH: That's correct. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: -- during the peak time of day? MR. TREESH: That is correct. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Well, then I'll have to ask staff how they
come to that conclusion, because I'm kind of puzzled by it, one of the numbers, really. I didn't really understand what was going on as far as quantities go until I read the 221 TIS
piece that was included in our report. And when I saw that persons per household, I got to think, well, how can that many people, all of them -- just a quarter of them leave? I just
don't know how you got there, and I didn't pick that up, and that's the piece I'll need explained. So thank you. MR. TREESH: Thank you. CFIAIRMAN STRAIN: And does anybody else have
anything? Page 4l of 79
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