BCC Minutes 12/18/1978 C
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Naples, Florida, December 18, 1978
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County Commissioners
in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as the Governing
Boardes) of such speoia1 districts as have been created according
to law and having conducted business herein, met on this date at
9105 A.M. in CONFERENCE SESSION in Building "F" of the Courthouse
Complex with the following members presentl
CHAIRMAN: David C. Brown
VICE-CHAIRMAN I Clifford Wenzel
John A. Phtor
C. R. "Russ" Wimer
Thomas P. Archer
ALSO PRESENT I William J. Reagan, Clerk, Harold L. Hall,
Chicf Deputy Clerk/Fiscal Officer, Edna Brenneman, Deputy Clerkl
C. William Norman, County Managerl Donald A. Piokworth, County
AttorneYI and Clifford Barksdale, County Engineer.
AGENDA
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
WORKSHOP AGENDA
December 18, 1978'
1.
Discussion of certain a.pect. of new budget with Clerk Reagan
and Fiscal Officer Hall.
2.
Proposed W.~.I. Solid Waste Collection Service Franchise.
3.
Discussion of Resolution of April 4, 1978 - discontinuance of
County trash pickup.
4.
Senior Citizens Center.
5.
Roport by Library Director on recommended appropriation of
state Library Aid Funds.
800K. ol/.If f~6e'100'
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December 18, 1978
DISCUSSION OF CERTAIN ASPECTS OF CURRENT BUDGET WITH CLERK
t~ILLIAM REAGAN AND FISCAL OFFICER HAROLD HALL, BOARD GIVES
TENTATIVE APPROVAL TO HIRING "BUDGET ANALYST"
Clerk William Reagan prefaced his comments by stating he was
not addressing the Board to discuss the financial status of the
County, noting that the County is in "good shape" finanoially and
that preparation of the Annual Report required by the State is in
process by Fiscal Officer Hall and the Finance Department and will
be completed by December 28, 1978. Mr. Reagan said that, as listed
on the agenda, his purpose is to discuss certain aspeots of budget
preparation which was touched on briefly during the budget hearings
the past summer at which time it was noted that the Board had two
options in this regard, one being to have the budget prepared by
someone other than the Clerk, the other being to continue having
tho Clerk prepare it ~hich he is prepared to do, however, said Mr. Reagar
he will need some aid. He referred to the color-coded chart
previously distributed to the Board members by Mr. Hall to point out
that, despite the growth in operations, the Clerk to the Board staff
under l-lr. Hall has only grown in number from 2S to 28 employees in
tho past four years. Basically, said Mr. Reagan, same amount of
staff is handling double the amount of transactions and work volume.
ContinUing, Mr. Reagan stated that the type of person
required is not a $3.00 per hour indiVidual, but rather someone
in the range of $16,000 annually. He said that during the past
year the Fiscal Offi~er worked more than he should have for
budget preparation, adding that the County has gone past the
point where budgeting is a three-month operation and, in fact,
work is still being done on the current budget even though it
was closed out in September. He said he disliked making the
requastbut if other counties are looked at it will be
noted that they are outdated in this area and that Collier
County has a lot to be proud of with regard to how the accounting
is handled but in the budgeting process which basically assists the
December 18, 1978
Board and management and which will, hopefUlly, reduce some costs
in the coming years, the area needs to be improved and that some
assistance is needed by Mr. Hall.
Chairman Brown stated that the request is not a surprise to
him and that he can see the need for fulfilling the request made.
Commissioner Pistor observed that he also antioipated Mr. Reagan's
request having work~d as closely as he did throughout the bUdgeting
process expressing his concern over the long hours spent by staff
personnel in this regard. Mr. Reagan stated that he does not
want to see that happen in the future, pointing out the reasons
why it was necessary. He said that what is needed is more analysis
of what is being done, adding the comment that budgeting is more
important than just getting all the information together as fast
as possible for presentation to the Board. In further response to
Commissioner Pintor, Mr. Reagan said that what is needed is one
coordinator working directly under Mr. Hall, taking direotions
directly from him, and that once the prooess has been gone through
initially, the overtime will be drastically reduced and the staff
to assist him can be "farmed out within house".
Commissioner Wenzel stated that he has seen the need for a
fiscal assistant for some time. Commissioner Wimer expressed
agreement. Commissioner Archer conourred, noting that he too
understands the need and, in his opinion, the Board should go
along with it.
Further discussion followed with Mr. Reagan referring to the
prepared list of responsibilities and time schedule involved prior
to the time when he is required, by law, to submit the budget to
the Board. Concerning the title to be assigned, it was Mr. Hall's
suggestion that he be considered a Budget Analyst.
Commissioner Pistor moved, seconded by Commissioner Wenzel
and carried unanimOUSly 5/0, that Mr. Reagan be authorized to hire
a Budget Analyst.
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December 18, 1978
In response to Commissioner pistor's inquiry about the
receipt of monthly reports, Mr. Reagan said that they are presently
being prepared with Mr. Hall advising that a copy can be routed to
each Commissioner, if desired. Commissioner Pistor observed that
it might be well for the Commissioners to have them.
DISCUSSION OF PROPOSED WMI SOLID WASTE COLLECTION SERVICE FRANCHISE I
STAFF DIRECTED TO WORK WITH APPROPRIATE PERSONS RE DRAFT OF NEW
FRANCHISE CONSIDERING VARIOUS MATTERS DISCUSSED DURING SESSION, REC-
OMMENDATIONS ON LEVELS OF SERVICE TO BE PROVIDED
County Manager Norman reviewed the results of a meeting held
sometime ago with representatives from Waste Management, Inc. and
the consultant engaged by the County with regard to the method of
setting a reasonable rate of return for franchisees in the waste
mAnAgement field of endeavor and the consultant's recommendation
was that, because of the unknowns involved, before a franchise
agreement is entered into, additional information should bp obtained
such as the rate of return being proposed, and the like, inclUding
the level of service being proposed. A further meeting was held
with WMI, said Mr. Norman, in this regard in order to provide the
Board with m~aningful information upon which to determine-the levol
of service upon which an estimate of coot could be based an~ which
could be used when a public hearing is held.
Continuing, Mr. Norman said that suggestions have been made
with regard to the wording of the proposed agreement and that
finalization will not be a major effort, however, it is felt that
the rate of return, the rates, and the level of service are the
major problems to be addressed.
Mr. George Vega, Attorney representing WMI, offered the proposal
that once the agreement has been finalized, that WMI operate under
the old rates in the old contract for a period of approximately
three months in order to permit them to determine an exact cost
basis. He said that during negotiations the question was raised as
to whether or not an increase in rates is anticipated with Mr. Vega
December lB, 1978
pointing out that due to the cost increases over the past four
yoars without an increase in rates, an increase will be needed.
Ho said that by working out the wording of the contract it will
be more than fair to the County since WHI will be taking the "lumps"
for tho interim periOd suggested and that it will then be up to
the Board if an increase is granted.
County Attorney Piokworth commented that he does not feel
that there will be any problem working up the contract, however,
the main problem is the question of rates ~nd rate structure
which the staff feels is part and parcel of granting a franchise.
Hr. Pickworth noted that WHIts position is appreciated also in
thllt they have to rely on information from Yahl Brothersl some
of which probably is not adequate for them to project what their
rato needs will be.
CommisRioner Pistor stated that, in his opinion, it ill
peculiar that Yahl Brothers have not been before the Board re-
questing a rate increase. Mr. Vega stated that a letter was
written to this effect but, upon his advice, was not submitted
for the reason that i~ was felt the matter of tranSferring the
franchise was the more important. Because ol the increase in
labor costs, gasoline, and the like, Mr. Vega stated that they
(Yahl Brothers) definitely wanted an increase.
Mr. Robert Himschoot, Waste Management, Inc. of Florida,
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lIddressed the matter of level of service, noting that it is
being recommended that C~lapter 17.7 of the Florida Statutes,
Florida Administrative Code, be used for guidelines, wherein it
stipulates twice-a-week service which is presently being offered
by Yahl Brothers. He said that it was proposed to the staff that
a change be considered in that twice-a-week service will be
consistent not only because of the subject law, but also because
it facilitates administration of the program. He said that he
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BOCK 044 PA~ .705
December 18, 1978
proposed that the existing program be administered, even offering
the once-a-week service, due to the need for operating experience
in the County area. He said that Bome of the basic costa are
Known due to experience in the ~ort Myers area but that they
do not have their hands on the books in the County and, therefore,
do not know the actual finances, and the like.
Mr. Warren Silverman, Florida CPA, noted that qarbage is part
of his business and stated that there has been some confusion in
terminOlogy. He said that the matter under discussion is a pulling
of interests and that thBre is no diminution of equity interest
on the part of Yahl Brothers but that there is an addition to that
by WMI. Another difference to be dealt with is that Yahl Brothers
havo made no distinction in the type of customer services which
means that WMI has no idea of the costs of operation between com-
mercial service versus service to residential customers and have
gained no experience in making such a distinction to be considered
in rate-making. Commissioner Wenzel inquired as to what guarantee
is involved in signing the agreement to give WMI 90 days' experience
in the operation so that they would not be requestinq a rate dOUble,
for instance, to what is being charged now, noting that the eXisting
franchise has another four or five years to run under present terms.
Mr. Silverman responded by saying the new agreement will provide the
same protection ar. in the existinq agreement, commenting that the
Board will sit as a quasi-judicial body to set the rates and determine
if the rates requested are justified. Mr. Pickworth observed that
the Board would have no choice but to grant a high increase if
such is based upon a justifiable fair rate of return.
Commissioner Pis tor expressed concern over using the periOd
of time when the heaviest population is in residence and stated that
he would prefer to see a study made for a '.4.x-or-eight month period
December 18, 1978
when more definite actual costs of operation information could
be obtained. It was suggested by Commissioner Wenzel that since
all of the parties are represented that they execute a tentative
agreement for presentation to the Board, working l~ conjunction
with the consultant to obtain his opinion. Mr. "ega stated that
the propOBftl i. acceptable to him with the recognition that some
of the information will be "educated guesses" for the present and
that after operating the business for a period of time the Board
will be approached for a POssible rate increase based upon more
accurate figures.
Commissioner Wenzel moved that an agreement be drafted following
Commissioner Pistor's suggestion that an eight-month trial periOd
be used as a basis for future negotiations in the deliberations to
take place in discussing the franchise agreement, plus the elimination
of one piCkup per w~ek option. The motion was seconded by CommissioneI
Pistor.
Responding to Chairman Brown's comment that the rates in existence
will remain, Mr. Vega stated this is a misunderstanding in that the
now agreement will reflect a 4\ franchise fee and, therefore, the
agreement will not contain the same rate schedule when brought back
for Board review. The possibility of eliminating that fee was mentione
by Mr. Pickworth. To summarize, Mr. Piokworth stated that the motion
is to direct the staff to negotiate a franchise and come up with an
agreement which will be ready fo= signature and which will include
the initial rate schedule which it is understood will have to be
based upon "educated guesses" on costs, and the like. Further, said
Mr. Pickworth,said agreement will provide that the initial rate
schedule will be in effect for a period of eight months, following
which the franchisee will then be entitled to address the Board to
formally request a rate increase based on experience cost factors.
Commissioner Wimer suggested that if the new agreement is to include
a now rate schedule, in his opinion, the contract should be for one
year rather than an eight month period.
BOC:< 044 'A~ 706
BOCK 044 rA~ 707
December l8, 1978
County Engineer Barksdale pointed out for Board cO\lsideratioll
that approximately 25\ of the customers being served by Yahl
Brothers subscribe to once-a-week service which should be considered
during the deliberations.
Mr. Vega expressed a desire for a less-than-one-year duration
of the new franchise. Further mention was made of the service
schedule and whether or not once-a-week service should be eliminated.
It was suggested that this matter be considered during the discussions
and then the Board be given both options from whioh to choose.
Upon call for the question on the motion whioh inoludes the
eight month provision before further rate review, the motion carried
4/1 with Commissioner Wimer voting in opposition to said provision.
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RECESS I lO:30 A.M. until lOl40 A.M.
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DISCUSSION OF RESOLUTION OF APRIL 4, 1978 RE DISCONTINUANCE OF
COUNTY TRASH PICKUP - RESOLUTION TO REMAIN IN EFFECT UNTIL FURTHER
INFORMATION IS REC3IVED
The question of the County's yearly piCkUp of trash was placed
on the agenda at the request of Commissioner Wenzel which he sug-
gested might be considered when drafting the proposod new franchise
agreement. County Engineer Barksdale concurred with Chairman Brown's
statement that the approximate coct per year is $75,000, adding the
problems encO'tntered by his staff in providing the servioe.
During the discussion which fOllowed, County Manager Norman
reported that this operation was discussed with WMI representatives
with several problems brought out. One of the problems, said Mr.
Norman, is that sinoe the County does not have mandatory collection,
not everyone receiving the benefit would be paying for it. He pointed
out that the WMI operation in Lee County provides unlimited curb-
side pickup and, if the County enters into that level of service,
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December 18, 1978
that would solve a large part of the problem. If an item is
too lar~e to be picked up during the regular c011eotion, continued
Mr. No:C'man, if the firm is called a driver will be sent out for
this pickup and a charge levied.
Commissioner Wenzel inquired if any further thought has been given
to recycling the rubbish ~ollected with Mr. Barksdale responding
that such an operation would not be cost effective.
It was the consensus of the Board that the staff negotiate
the matter when drafting the proposed franchise with WMI.
Commissioner Wimer moved, seconded by Commisisoner Pistor and
unanimously carried 5/0, that Resoluction 78-53 of April 4, 1978 re
tho discontinuance of County trash pickup remain in effect pending
further negotiating.
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At this time Chairman Brown was called away from the dias,
turning the gavel over to Vice-Chairman Wenzel.
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PROPOSAL FOR SENIOR CITIZENS CENTER - COUNTY MANAGER DIRECTED TO
INVESTIGATE AVAILABILITY OF FUNDS FROM FEDERAL AND/OR STATE AGENCIESI
IF WARRANTED, MATTER TO BE BROUGHT BACK TO BOARD FOR FURTHER REVIEW
Vice-Chairman Wenzel stated that the reason for the matter of
a possible Senior Citizens' Center being addressed by the Board is
duo to the number of requests from senior citizen. who want a center
for their use which would be farily close, and protected from vandalism
and rowdyism. He said that it was assumed at one time that the
Courthouse property would be the best place for such a center, however,
the issue died because most of the funds were going to Little League
activites and the like. Commissioner Pistor stated that when a space
requirement inventory i8 made, as requested, a major capital expendi-
turo in this regard may have to be undertaken and that it is possible
a spaco for recreational activities may be considered for inclusion.
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December la, 1978
Mr. Henry Friedheim, local resident, concurred with the
statements made about the need for a center, however, the most
urgent need is for a cultural center to serve all of the County
residents. He said that, in his opinion, Such a proposal would
be supported by both year-round and winter residents.
Methods of financing such a project were discussed, among
them the possibility of grants and, as was pointed out by Commissioner
^rcher, the County has the option of exeroising a resort tax, noting
that such a plan would have to g~ to a referendum. Methods of
obtaining the necessary land were also disoussed inoluding the
possibility of using and/or selling lands offered by various
developers. Commissioner Archer commented that the developers are
required to provide school sites, and the like, whioh they are
already doing and that it would be difficult to Ask for additional
property.
It was the consensus of the Board that such a facility would
be an asset to the community and a worthwhile project and it was
suggested that petitions be circulated to "get the ball rolling".
The matter of maintaining the proposed bUilding, if one should be
erected, was mentioned as being a costly item and whioh should be
further considered. Vice-Chairman Wenzel observed that there are
two separate projects under discussion - one being a recreational
center and the other a cultural ~enter, the latter probably bcing
too costly to consider without the aid of grants, or the like..
Following further brief discussion, Commissioner Wenzel moved
that the Board instruct the County Manager to see if there are funds
available for such project from Federal and State agencies, and that
if Mr. Norman feels that the situation warrants it, that the matter
be hrought back to the Board, and he then would sponsor a motion to
have the project put on the ballot to let the people make a decision.
Commissioner Pistor seconded the motion which carried unanimously 5/0.
December 18, 1978
*It was noted for the record that Chairman Brown returned at
this point in the Session.
APPROPRIATION OF STATE LIBRARY AID FUNDS, AS RECOMMENDED BY
LIBRARIAN JODER - TENTATIVELY APPROVED
Librarian Richard Joder explained that he is requesting
Board approval for the appropriation of the 1978 State Aid
allocation from the State Library in Tallahassee which he said
had been held pending possible over-runs in constructions costs
for the new branch libraries. He said that, because of the
skillfull handling of the grants by staff, there were no over-
runs, noting that the projects "came in" under budgot, and that
he is requesting that the subject funds bo appropriated in total
now rather than throughout the year. Mr. Joder explained in
detail the projects to be considered which were included in
tho proposed budget amendmentR, copies of which he distributed
to the Commissioners. The largest expenditure, said Mr. JOder,
is for a checkpoint socurity system to safeguard the material in
the headquarters' offices collections. He said that the system
will protect th~ reference book collection consisting of about
25,000 volumes and afford protection in other high risk areas
such as fine arts books and other valuable items.
Responding to Commissioner Wenzel, the system is being
proposed for only the central branch library, noting that there
are losses at other branches but they are not large enough to
warrant the type of security system being proposed.
Following brief discussion, Comn:ilsioner Wenzel moved,
seconded by Commissioner Archer and car.ried unanimously 5/0,
that the Board tentatively approve thp expenditure of State
Library Aid funds for the items designated by Mr. Joder.
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There being no further business to come before the Board, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair - Timel 11,30 A.M.
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