BCC Minutes 12/04/1979 W
December 4. 1979
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County Commissioners in and for
thp County of Collier, and also ac~ing as the Governing Board(s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having conducted
business herein, met on this date at 1:35 P.M. in Conference Session in
Building "F" of the Courthouse Complex with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Clifford Wenzel
VICE-CHAIRMAN: Thomas P. Archer
John A. Pistor
C. R. "Russ" Wimer
David C. Brown (1:45 P.M.)
ALSO PRESENT; William J. Reagan, Clerk; Harold L. Hall, Chief Deputy
Clerk/Fiscal Officer; C. William Norman, County Manager; Clifford Barksdale,
Public Works Administrator/Engineer; Anthony Pires, Assistant County
Attorney; Fred Marks, Data Processing Director; Irving Berzon, Utility
Director~ Lee Layne. Planner; Mary Morgan, Administrative Aide to the Board;
Deputy Chief Raymond Barnett, Sheriff's Department; and Edna Brenneman.
Deputy Cl erk.
AGENDA
1. Workshop discussion of East Naples Sewer
Project and alternatives
DISCUSSION OF EAST NAPLES SEWER PROJECT AND ALTERNATIVES (SEE OFFIC!AL ACTION
TAKEN DURING REGULAR SESSION THIS DATE)
Continuing with the discussion regarding the East Naples Sewer
Project which began during the Regular Session this date, prior to the
noon recess, the matter of the costs of the final engineering plans and
the method of paying for su~h costs were brought up for deliberation.
Consulting Engineer Ted Smallwood estimated that the costs for bringing
the plans to the point of bidding the project would be between four
and five-hundred thousand dollars; however, he pointed out that these
engineering plans should not be authorized until the bonds are validated
because the Board may be committing themselves to an expenditure that
may take years to pay for because of some difficulty in validating
the bonds, noting that once they are validated, there would be no
obstacle in moving ahead with the project.
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December 4, 1979
Chairman Wenzel, referring to the costs expended in the Immokalee
District for engineering expenses w':ich llave not been repaid, questioned
the methodology for repayment of the co;,ts under discussion. Clerk
William Reagan said that it would depend on whether or not the
engineering costs are considered preliminary costs. which must be
determined by the appropriate persons. Utility Director Berzon said
that, in good conscience. the final engineering costs cannot be considered
preliminary costs, and said that, in his orinion, the only way that these
costs can be repaid, that he is aware of, is to levy a special tax on the
area to recover the estimated one-hal f mill ion dollars. Then, said Mr.
Berzon, there would be a set of plans that some day would be useful.
Responding to Chairman Wenzel, Mr. Berzon said that in the eventuality
that the costs for completing the project would be prohibitive and the
project could not proceed, the funds expended could be recovered by levying
a special tax against the subject area which he said could be paid off over
a two or three-year period. Fiscal Officer Harold Hall explained that the
costs can be ab<,orbed in one of two ways under Chapter 153.2 - the General
Fund can pay for the preliminbry planning and engineering, as was done in
Immokalee for instance.
Chairman Wenzel questioned, in the event the project cannot proceed,
if it ~ould be possible to prohibit any further building in the area,
where septic tanks a-e used, because of pollution, and the 1 ike. Assistant
County Attorney Pires stated that he would not like to express an opinion,
without the opportunity to research the matter, which could mislead the
Board.
A further matter addressed by Chairman Wenzel was whether or not,
under the present rules and regulations, the County can make property
owners rectify deficiencies in their present systems. It was the opinion
of both Mr. Pires and Mr. Berzon that the Health Department would have to
rule on whether or not there is a health hazard existing.
Chairman Wenzel inquired of the Financial Consultants present if the
entire project could be paid for by "stretchi"g out" payments over a
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December 4, 1979
thirty or fourty-year period. Mr. Ro:'''rt Hagner, of Southeastern Municipal
Bonds, Inc., stated that he does not !r:lirve the time period can go beyond
twenty years on the asses:>.nenti howev",'. he added that "you can go certainly
thirty, thirty-five, or forty on YOtlr rr"/enues".
The matter of estimated asseSS~t(:n t $ and monthly charges was discussed
at length, together with the matter of [Jossible financial assistance through
grants. Mr. Berzon pointed out that the pressure, in large part, for
installing the sewer is primarily bein~ applied by the Department of
Environmental Regulation, with Chairc:.1n Henzel noting that DER does not give
grants. Mr. Smallwood cOlmlented th,~ t the Environmental Protection Agency
provides grants but that EPA is not f!lfHJing collection systems at this time
due to their commitments for treatment plants, and the like.
COOJnissioner Archer inquired as to ~Ihat will happen in the event the
City of Naples cannot accept the sewo~c generated. Mr. Smallwood said that
the City has to expand its treatment plant to provide for the normal growth
in the sys tem and tha t it appears th,) t they will have to improve the effl uent
disposal system of the plant to comr1,/ ',lith the new DER and EPA requirements.
Further, said Mr. Smallwood, the City ,lOuld not be in a position to build a
3 million gallon-a-day addition to their plant if the East Naples Sewer Pro-
ject is not gOing to proceed hand-in-hand with that program.
The matter of assessing properties was touched upon with Mr. Smallwood
pointing out that the allegations that some properties would be benefited
without paying for such benefit are not valid, explaining the reasons why
this is so. By referring to the map displayed. Mr. Smallwood illu3trated
the layout of the system by areas and observed that each could be developed
independently. one at a time. When questioned concerning the use of regional
package plants, Mr. Smallwood said that the costs involved would be the same
as for the District.
Returning to the matter of financing, Chairman Wenzel questioned why,
since the construction costs are the ~Jme. the City can only obtain a ten-
year bond issue and the County twenty years. Attorney David Rynders, the
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December 4, 1979
City of Naples, explained that the City is limited by Charter and the
provisions of Chapter 170 to a ten-year repayment program on assessments.
He <Hided that twenty yea r:. can be taken to pay back bonds; however, he
said that does not do the public "any good".
Chairman Wenzel, commenting on the results of the recent referendum,
said that approximately 75% of the affected residents and/or property
owners "showed little interest in stopping the project". Mr. Bud Winkler,
of the East Naples Civic Association, agreed that the Chairman's statement
was true. However, Mr. Winkler stated his desire to provide the Board
with some of his own observations - among them, the fact that the Con-
servancy Report was the crux of the demand for the sewer project and
advised that there is a study ongoing of the Report which will bear re-evalu-
ation of the Report. Mr. Berzon disagreed with Mr. Winkler's statement
wi th regard to the timing of the Report, noting that it was coincidental
with the problem in East Naples. noting the events which have taken place
dur-i'1g the year, comnencing with a meeting held the early part of the
CIJrr-cnt year and concluding with the requirement by FmHA that a referendum
be Iwld. He said that the County Corrmission's schedule did not look to
the Rel'ort for any support.
Commissioner Wimer stated that, in his opinion, the time of the Report
was a contributing factor leading to the defeat of the referendum. He said
that it is his belief that there would have been a much more affirmative
vote of the East Naples people if the Conservancy, and the City of Naples,
"had never sllid a word", their feeling being that the project was being
"forced down their throats". He said that the latter is not true. Mr.
Winkler concurred with a part of the Commissioner's statement and said
that the people felt that they were being coerced and threatened by the City
and that they did not want the City "telling them what to do". Another
preval ent thought, said Mr. Winkler, was that "if we don't vote, we're
goinl) to get it ~ay" and that is why many persons did not vote. Corrmissioner
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Oecember 4, 1979
Archer also observed that the project was under discussion and a resolution
dra f tr'd for cons i dera t i on by the County and the City to accept the bul k
seW<1je from Ea"t Naples at least five years ago.
Alllong other observations put forth by Mr. Winkler were the estimated
16% f,lilure of septic tanks in the area which he said is a temporary failure
lastin~ five or ten minutes at most; the money involved for the consultants;
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why tile portion of Sewer District B below the Airport, which is City property,
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was 1I0t. included in the project; the omission of the Coconut Crr!ek area from
the liI'oject; and the several big landowners along the northern boundary
who will not be paying for the service. although benefited. Chairman Wenzel
noted that the boundaries were settled between the City and the County several
year;, back, explaining briefly the terms of the Agreement pertaining thereto.
(ontinuin~ Mr. Winkler mentioned the fact that there is a sewer plant
exist.illg which could serve a certain area, and which has no effect on Naples
8,1Y. dlld that there is a permit in existence for expansion of the plant to
8 mill ion gallons by 1983. When questioned by Mr. Berzon, Mr. Winkler said
tha t hc> has not seen the subject permit.
Tile matter of the ballot for the recent referendum was discussed with
Mr. Winkler stating that it is his feeling that it could be declared illegal
beca Wi" one paragraph s ta tes tha t if a property owner was on a sewered area
there would be no charge which promoted a "yes"vote. Also, said Mr. Winkler,
then' 1-I<1S a threat by the City that "if we didn't do it, we're going to get.
it ar:YI"dY"; therefore, he continued, the referendum could be contested, if
anyone desires to do so. Responding to Chairman Wenzel's assumption that
the b,lllot was checked by the Legal Department, Attorney Pires stated that
County Attorney Pickworth checked and approved the ballot.
Mr. Winkler stated that DER put out a report to the effect that the
subject area was not considered by them to be a despoiled area, otherwise
they I-lOuld make grant money available. Mr. Berzon said that the only grant
money that the County could be eligible for is under the "201" Program which
would be for the force mains and lift stations. He said that funding could
be up to as much as 75%, which would be on the $4.000,000 portion of the
loan, \-..hich would have the effect of reducing the monthly charges by as much
as $t,OO or $2.50 - and no reduction of the assessments, which he said are
undispr:tably high.
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December 4, 1979
Commissioner Wim.'r e~,pressed the opinion that, since presumably there
will 00', be an FmHA loan, he cannot vote to put in the same system at a higher
cost, CommissIoner Brown expressed ~he viewpoint that, due to the existing
unsanitary conditions, the East Naples Sewer project should be built.
,:lJafrman Wenzel queried Mr. Berzon on the possibility of obtaining the
grant he mentioned with Mr. Berzon replying that applicaton for it can be
procc,sed while the design work is in progress. He stressed that getting
the Qr~nt is not a certainty; however, in his opinion, he said that the
prosp~cts are better than good and would have the effect of reducing the cost
of thl' $4,000,000 portion of the project down to $3,000,000. Mr. Berzon,
replying to Comnissioner Wimer, said that the only place that the County
might hdve been eligible for a grarlt for the assessment portion of the project
is through FmHA and they have advised that there are no grant funds available.
It Wil', pointed out by Commissioner Wimer that the same situation existed
with r~yard to the North Naples project with Mr. Rerzon concurring with the
COIn!Tlt".~. that after construction had started the project ended up with a grant.
Howev"r, Mr. Berzon said that he could not promote the subject project on
the s t.rength of such possibil ity since the initial offering for a loan
was turned down.
It was suggested by ~1r. 8erzon that some political pressure be exerted
in Wdshington, through the Congressional Delegation, for possible reconsidera-
tion of the loan and that once the County is under the FmHA loan arrangements,
it is in a better position to obtain a grant.
Commissioner Wimer suggested that an attempt be made to obtain grants,
and moved to authorize necessary travel for any staff member or COlOOlissioner
in their attempts to pursue grant funds so that the project can proceed. He
added that he could not vote to put the project in unless he knew that some
additional monies would be forthcoming. No action was taken on the motion.
~;", Smallwood said that it would be appropriate to have the legal staff
proceed with the bond validation so that when a decision is made that funds
December 4, 1979
are ~v~ilable the project could begin without further delays for bond
val irlation wh;ch he said normally t~kes about three to four months.
Conrnissioner Brown moved that the Legal Department proceed with bond
val jr:,ltion. The motion was seconded by Corrrnissioner Archer and carried by
un~1I i'lIouS vote.
Conrnissioner Pistor expressed his feeling that it was unfortunate that
such .j small number of persons voted at the referendum and that, therefore,
it i" IJllknown how the area truthfully feel s wi th respect to putting in the
sewer', He observed that it is the Board's responsibility to see that, if the
sewp,' goes in, it goes in at the lowest cost and that efforts will have to
con:i'llJe to see what can be done to obtain assistance.
Mr. Berzon said that the first order of business is to authorize the
Attrll"/1f'Y to prepare the bond val idatfon, which has been done, and that he
COIH.llrs that nothing :;hould be done with regard to engineering until the
bood v,llidation is accomplished. He said further that, in line with Corrrnis-
siolll'r l~imer's statement, travel should be authorized, wherever necessary, to
see if there is grant money available other than through EPA.
Commissioner Wimer moved that the staff and the Corrrnission be authorized
to l~\/lpnd the necessary monies for travel to try to "1 ine up these grant funds".
The ::Iotion was seconded by Corrrnissioner Archer and unanimously carried.
City Counci lman Wade Schroeder recalled that, according to the Con-
sul LIllt' s conrnents, before grant money can be obtained, the engineering plans
hav!' to be completed; and, according to the Chairman of the East Naples
Civic Association, he will oppose the validation of the bonds. He suggested
that there could be a two-year delay in the project and that he does not
\~alll. to wait that long. Mr. Berzon said that the reason it was recorrrnended
that the val idation be done first is because, otherwise, there will be no way
to PdY back the $500,000 in costs, unless the Board wishes to make a corrrnit-
ment. Corrrnissioner Archer said that he would concur in going ahead with the
planc, simultaneously and, if necessary, a tax can be levied to repay those
expel: :;es.
COlltinuing, Councilman Schroeder said that he feels that the Board should
do till' same thing that the Ci ty has done and that it to make the decision
to ']IJ dhead \~ith the project even if grant money is not obtained. He
reiterated his dislike to see the project delayed another two years.
I<egardiwJ the completion of the plans, Ik. Smallwood said that it
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would take seven or eight months to complete the final engineering plans,
l1ot':ng that the prel iminary design and layout have been done. He said
rurther that approximately $100,~00 to $150,000 would have been expended
in the 90-120 days it will take for the bond validation.
Commissioner Brown moved that CH2M Hill be directed to proceed with
thl' preparation of the final engineering plans. The motion was seconded
hy Commissioner Wimer.
Commissioner Archer inquired if the bonds are contested, if the project
rlllJld be dropped at that point, with Mr. Smallwood stating that that
provision is in the contract.
Crairman Wenzel, in order to clarify the motion, said the motion is to
,1lltl1orize the firm of CH2M Hill, through the Utility Division, to proceed
with the final engineering plans and noted that the contract stipulates
tlldt if the project fails to go ahead, the project will be terminated and
pd)'ment made for the portion of the work which has been done to that point.
Mr. Hall pointed out that if the work is authorized it means that the
Hlldrd is incurring a liability for payment so, at thfs point, it must be
,1',rerta ined from where the funds are coming. He said that an appropriation is
I1perled of the amount of money to pay whatever the expected amount is going to
Ill'. Mr. Berzon suggested an approximate figure of $200,000 be used since
it is unknown at what stage the plans will be in the event there is a
cl1,]llenge of the val idation. Whether or not the funds can be loaned from
tile General Fund, said Mr. Hall, is a legal question. He said that the pro-
j!'r:t does seem to parallel the IllTOOkalee situation where in the money was
advanced from the General Fund and paid and is now "sitting", and that we have
Counsel's opinion in writing that this was a legal expenditure of the General
1'lllId. However, he continued, the mechanics of the way in which it was
done need to be changed in that it is necessary to make the necessary budget
dllH>ndments at this point rather than to come back a year and one-half
l.lter and adjust financial reports. Chairman Wenzel asked Mr. Hall to get
to<]ether with the Attorney and, if necessary, come up with a budget amend-
1I1I'l1t at the next meeting, if possible.
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County Manager Norman urged the Board to give more consideration to
the possibqity of il special ad valorem tax to pay for the final engineering.
1If' said that, in his opinion, a number of arguments can be made where this
would return in benefit to the taxpayers in the reduced costs, since it will
IlL' started earlier, and a lower assessment for the well-being of the area.
MI", Hall pointed out that, if there is to be a taxing district created for
the subject purpose as was done in rrTJllokale@ and Iiarco Island, for instance,
hot.h of which were 153.2 districts, it would be necessary to have it, or
s~ould have it, in Mr. Colding's office by the first of the year.
Upon call for the question the motion on the floor carried by unanimous
vot.e.
Mr. Berzon questioned whether or not it would be appropriate at the
present time to consider a fiscal advisor for the project.
Following brief discussion, Commissioner Wimer moved to designate
tllf> same firms serviQg as financial consultants for the Water System be
t.h:: financial consul tants for the subject sewer system - namely, the combined
firms of Fischer, Johnson, Allen & Burke, Inc. and Southeastern MuniCipal
flonds, Inc. Mr. Berzon suggested that they would serve under the same pro-
visiuns and conditions as currently serving, i.e. they would not be
el igible for the purchase of the bonds. Commissioner Wimer agreed to the
added language in his motion, following which Commissioner Archer seconded
the motion which carried unanimously.
The meeting was adjourned at 2.45 P.M. to reconvene in Regular
Session immediately following.