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BCC Minutes 04/17/2006 S (House Bill 905 & Vanderbilt Beach Road Extention Alternatives) April 17, 2006 TRANSCRIPT OF THE SPECIAL MEETING OF OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS APRIL 17,2006 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County Commissioners in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as the Board of Zoning Appeals and the governing board( s) of such special districts as have been created according to law and having conducted business herein, met on this date at 5:00 p.m. in SPECIAL SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: Frank Halas Fred Coyle Jim Coletta Donna Fiala Tom Henning ALSO PRESENT: Jim Mudd, County Manager Leo Ochs, Deputy County Manager David Weigel, County Attorney Mike Pettit, Assistant County Attorney Page 1 COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS tI^"^'- 0......._. '~..", \, ._-~. ~'^..,,-""., AGENDA April 17, 2006 5:00 PM Frank Halas, Chairman, District 2 Jim Coletta, Vice-Chairman, District 5 Donna Fiala, Commissioner, District 1 Tom Henning, Commissioner, District 3 Fred W. Coyle, Commissioner, District 4 NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON ANY AGENDA ITEM MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO SPEAKING. SPEAKERS MUST REGISTER WITH THE COUNTY MANAGER PRIOR TO THE PRESENTATION OF THE AGENDA ITEM TO BE ADDRESSED. ALL REGISTERED PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL RECEIVE UP TO THREE (3) MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN. 1. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE 2. HOUSE BILL 905 3. VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD EXTENSION ALTERNATIVES 4. ADJOURN April 17, 2006 MR. MUDD: Ladies and gentlemen, if you'd please take your seats. As an administrative note, there is overflow seating out in the hallway, plus we have the HR room that's set for at least 60 people, and they've got a large screen TV that you can monitor. And if your name gets called, you will always know if you're on deck or not; then you can walk over in order to speak. With that, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. It's a pleasure to see each and every one of you. We're here to discuss a couple of issues tonight, but I'd like to announce that anyone who has a cell phone or pager, if you would please be so kind as to shut that off, we'd greatly appreciate it. At this time, we'll rise for the Pledge of Allegiance. (Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.) I tern #2 HOUSE BILL 905 : REPRESENTATIVE GOODLETTE'S EFFORTS TO GET THE LANGUAGE (SENATOR BENNETT'S LANGUAGE) INTO THE HOUSE DRI COMPANION BILL AND TO SUPPORT THE "STAND ALONE" BILLS BY SENATOR SAUNDERS AND REPRESENTATIVE GOODLETTE- APPROVED CHAIRMAN HALAS: We're going to begin this evening's meeting with something that was advertised ahead of time, and that's in regards to House Bill 905. It should take nothing more -- we hope nothing more than a few minutes here in discussion, and then we'll get right into the -- what we're all here for this evening, and that's the Vanderbilt Beach Road extension and all the different alternatives that Page 2 April 17, 2006 are available. MR. MUDD: Commissioner, this is an item, it's a recommendation to consider language recommended by the Florida Department of Community Affairs and presented to the Board of County Commissioners by Representative J. Dudley Goodlette, that addresses growth management concurrencies issues in House Bill 905, which is different from language previously approved by the board and transmitted to the state legislators for inclusion in that legislation. If you remember correctly, Commissioners, when we talked about doing the agenda and things like that, if there was anything that came up hot, I asked the board how they would like me to proceed, and you basically said well, if it becomes a very contentious issue and it's very hot and it gets to be very timely you can call a special meeting. Well, this meeting was already set as a special meeting. And what I propose to do in consult with the county attorney's office was to put this as an agenda item. I'm sorry that we had to put it on, but we needed a decision by the Board of County Commissioners. That's all I have, sir. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you very much. At this time I'm going to ask Commissioner Fred Coyle ifhe could update us in regards to some of the information that -- conversations that him and Representative Dudley Goodlette have had in regards to the language on this bill. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to make a few introductory comments so the public will understand what we're talking about. The Florida state legislature last session passed a growth management bill which essentially gutted our concurrency management system in Collier County. And by concurrency management system, I mean that our ability to provide roads -- and it's relevant to this meeting -- ability to provide roads prior to the impacts Page 3 April 17, 2006 of development. We had implemented a concurrency management system which was showing promise. The state legislature decided to eliminate those opportunities for counties, and under some circumstances permit developers merely to pay a fee, a proportionate fair share, and proceed with their development whether roads existed or not. We think that's an intolerable situation, and we have been fighting that legislation for the last eight months or more. And we have gotten some support in Tallahassee, particularly from our local delegation. And Representative Goodlette has sponsored a bill in the House to permit us to retain a more restrictive concurrency management system than the state allows. Senator Saunders has sponsored a similar bill in the Senate. We have even been able to persuade Senator Bennett in the Senate, who was one of the major proponents of this provision, to provide some relief for Collier County so we can manage growth more effectively, particularly transportation. But now, much to our surprise, the Department of Community Affairs, who approves growth management plan provisions in most of the things we do with respect to growth management locally has expressed opposition to our language. So all of those efforts now are in danger of failing. Representative Goodlette has told me he doubts that his bill will make it through without either being vetoed by the Governor, or maybe it won't even go through the House. The House equivalent of Senator Bennett's DRI bill, development of regional impact bill, does not have our language in it. So we have to make some decisions as to what we are going to do. So here is the latest information on those efforts. It appears that the general counsel for the Department of Community Affairs in Tallahassee is prepared, perhaps, we haven't seen it yet, but is perhaps Page 4 April 17, 2006 prepared to issue a ruling that will say that counties have the right to implement a more stringent concurrency management system than that specified by law. But it still permits the proportionate fair share to trump concurrency. Okay. So the other alternative is that we can continue our efforts to get Representative Dudley Goodlette's bill and Representative Saunders' bill -- or Senator Saunders' bill and Senator Bennett's bill all passed. And I would suggest we continue to do that. We also should try to get the language that is in Senator Bennett's bill in the Senate into the companion bill in the house, the companion DRI bill. If the Department of Community Affairs continues to oppose our language, then they will probably recommend that Governor Bush veto the bill. It will be far more difficult to justify a veto for the DR! bill than it will be to justify a veto for our stand-alone bill. So basically that's where we are. So if we can convince -- and I've asked Representative Goodlette to talk with Representative Traviesa, who is the sponsor of the house DR! bill, to see ifhe would be willing to put our language in his bill to make it consistent with Senator Bennett's bill. If that's the case, there is a very good chance this will succeed. But if we can't do that, there is substantially reduced opportunity to be successful. So that's pretty much where we are. There are people who are trying to reason, or will be trying to reason with DCA that -- I've just received notice that that legal opinion from the general counsel of DCA has in fact been received, which says we can have a more stringent concurrency management system than the state allows. There are a couple of uncertainties -- no, there's no -- there's no uncertainty about this. Proportionate fair share still trumps concurrency. And secondly, there is uncertainty about the fact that we have the Page 5 April 17, 2006 right to do it, or whether it must be approved by DCA. We'll have to examine that language very closely to find out if it provides us a right to have a more stringent concurrency management system, or if DCA has to approve a more stringent concurrency management system. But nevertheless, speaking quite frankly, anything DCA tells me I have great concerns with. But I don't think that solves our problem. I think we need to proceed with our legislative alternatives. And if that fails, then we have this to fall back on. So that's pretty much where we are. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Do you have any recommendations at this time? COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, I would recommend that we continue to support Representative Goodlette in trying to get our language, Senator Bennett's language, into the House DR! companion bill, and that we continue to push forward with the stand-alone bills by Senator Saunders and Representative Goodlette. And that way we've got two alternative legislative paths that we can follow. And then we just follow those to a conclusion. I don't think it's to our best advantage or the interest of the people of Collier County for us just to abandon our efforts to provide transportation network and road capacity before we approve additional capacity. And right now we don't have that authority. We cannot stop the development if road capacity doesn't exist. It's just an intolerable situation for everybody in Collier County. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'll second your motion. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Henning? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is anybody working on a prop share ordinance? MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER HENNING: If so, how far are we before we bring it to the board? MR. MUDD: Norman is -- Mr. Feder is -- we've talked about it. Page 6 April 17, 2006 He's coming back to the board to go out and work on -- to bring in two experts in that particular field. One to work on the prop share side of the house and the next to help us with the legal pieces for growth management. And I believe he's going to come to the board with that in May. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. CHAIRMAN HALAS: So do -- MR. MUDD: Because our prop share ordinance needs to be in effect by 1 December, 2006. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, if there's no further discussion, I believe we have a motion on the floor by Commissioner Coyle and seconded by Commissioner Coletta. If there's no further discussion, I'll call the question. All those in favor of supporting the legislation by Senator Saunders -- excuse me, Representative Goodlette and also to support the companion bill by our other legislators up in Tallahassee, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Opposed, by like sign. (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. That takes care of that issue off the table. Item #3 V ANDERBIL T BEACH ROAD EXTENSION AL TERNA TIVES: MOTION TO ACCEPT STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION _ APPROVED Page 7 _ " _,...._.....,_'__.__,..~o,..,.".....,'_____"" ___,,~ _ April 17, 2006 I just want to say that I want to thank each and every one of you for being here this evening. This is probably one of the hardest decisions that I'll be making tonight as a county commissioner, and I'm sure that I'm speaking on behalf of my fellow commissioners up here. We will listen to each one of you intently, and we will give each of you three minutes to speak. If there's a continuation of the same subject matter, I ask that you waive your time for someone else that may have some other issues that need to be brought forth so that we have a good flavor of all of the different problems or concerns, so that we can sit here and address them. At this point in time, I would ask that anybody that plans to speak, to make sure that you have your speaker slips in at this point in time. Because after we start the proceeding, we will not take any more speaker slips. So I hope that everybody that plans to speak has addressed that issue. Commissioner Coyle? COMMISSIONER COYLE: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to correct something that I said earlier. I misspoke. There has been no legal opinion received from DCA. I said there had been a legal -- the note specifically says that no legal opinion has been received as of this time. So I did misspeak. So I'd like to correct the record. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. Well, that shouldn't have anything to do with regards to our vote. COMMISSIONER COYLE: That's correct. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you very much. Okay, at this point in time -- yes? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Where do you get the speaker slips? CHAIRMAN HALAS: Where do you get the speaker slips? The speaker slips are outside -- MR. MUDD: On the table right outside the doors. Page 8 April 17, 2006 CHAIRMAN HALAS: -- right outside the room out here. Okay, so at this time we'll start the proceedings. And I believe we start off with the Transportation Department. And I'm going to turn this over to you. We're going to listen very intently. This is the first time that all of us have been gathered here to have an understanding of exactly what's taking place out there. Thank you very much. MR. QUINTY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For the record, Joe Quinty, Principal Planner with the Transportation Planning Department. Also project manager for the study for almost two years. First off, I want to thank the commissioners. I know there's been a big public push throughout this process that when you make a decision, to have this be an evening meeting, so I appreciate you working through schedules to make this a reality. I'm here today with Don Scott, director of transportation planning; Norman Feder, transportation administrator; Bill Gramer with the consulting firm CH2M Hill, who is the lead firm for this project, he's their project manager; Jeff Perry, subconsultant with Wilson-Miller. He and Mr. Gramer will be giving part of the presentation today, as well. And also, hopefully, Mr. Bill Reeve with Coastal Engineering, who did a lot of our right-of-way analysis for today. On the screen, to get everyone familiar, I know most of the folks here in attendance know exactly what we're talking about, but just to give everybody an idea of where we're looking, currently Vanderbilt Beach Road extension ends a little over a mile east of 951. County maintenance ends at the entrance to Vanderbilt Country Club. The shaded area is the study area. It goes all the way out to DeSoto Boulevard. It's about a 10-mile-long corridor, approximately two miles wide. Again, it's something we've been looking at throughout this period. Even though realistically -- you see the study area goes down to Page 9 April 17, 2006 Golden Gate Boulevard. Even though there weren't any realistic options going down that far, the possibility to connect up all the north-south streets extending down to Golden Gate Boulevard was a possibility throughout this, so we wanted to make sure that they were included in this study throughout. What exactly is a corridor study? In some ways -- a lot of folks are familiar with the state's PD&E process, which stands for project development and environment study. That's a process you go through to try to get state and federal funds. The county traditionally in a project like this where we aren't seeking state or federal funds; we go through a similar process but not quite as stringent. As I, you know, hit one more time, we are not seeking state or federal funds. We did volunteer early on, we put this project through the process called the ETDM, which is a new fancy FDOT acronym for efficient transportation decision-making process, where you throw it into a big GIS process that all the permitting agencies review. It's basically an effort to get very early feedback from them. You're very aware that permitting problems, when you get to the design and construction phases, since it was nothing more than a concept, start getting feedback very early from them. That's something we did. Basically, you know, it's almost a mini PD&E is what we're working you through, looking at the traffic, looking at -- you know, putting together alignments that we think are workable. You know, public involvement is a huge part of that process, something I'll be touching on a little bit later. Trying to balance all the issues that we're facing: The environmental, the social, cultural, fiscal. You're looking at the cost, you're looking at homes, you're looking at changing the environment of the folks, people are in. That's something that you're trying to balance and in some cases trying to put the numbers to balance out all Page 10 April 17, 2006 these issues. And in the end putting together a final report and having a forum such as this so that we can provide this information to you to make a policy decision. One thing we've really tried to stress to the public in recent weeks is what my thoughts or what the consultant's thoughts are about this study process are immaterial, it comes in the end to you to make a final decision. We have come up with a preferred alternative. We're going to walk you through different alternatives besides that one. But again, it comes down to a policy decision that in the end that you're making tonight. I wanted to walk everyone through -- this thing has been going on for a while. I've been working on this since the early part of 2004, putting a scope of services together. We went through the purchasing department and procurement process. We issued the RFP in June of 2004. We got feedback from a number of consultants. We selected __ we had an interesting process, we had a two-way tie with our consultants. We had to come back for presentations. So that was decided in September. We brought this before this board in January of2005 for your approval. The contract amount is just under 600,000. We started the formal study process in February, with the consultant getting to work promptly. First and foremost putting together a public involvement plan so that notifying all of __ notifying you first and foremost again, adjoining municipalities, state and federal agencies, any permitting agencies, a number of civic organizations, trying to get everybody in the loop as far as what we're thinking about. Immediately went into the field, started looking at the existing conditions. We had to start talking to some landowners, saying if you see some guys snooping around the backside of your property, it's guys doing environmental work, you know, endangered species, Page 11 April 17, 2006 looking at the plant life, et cetera, trying to cover all those issues, getting more familiar, aerial photography, of course, doing all the traffic analysis. Then we started putting together some draft ideas of what sort of alternatives would try to meet this need, being that we kind of are in a unique situation here that our study process overlapped two different long-range plans. You've got two different traffic models we're using, you've got interim years. Jeff will cover a lot of that later in this presentation. Everyone first really started hearing about this in September when we had our big public workshop. We got a lot of feedback across the board at that time. Then we started refining all these alternatives, trying to follow suggestions, getting more answers for all these. Came back with a second huge workshop in January. Working since that time to get more detailed answers. And then now in recent weeks bring it to a couple of community groups and then to you here today. Public involvement I've been stressing. That's something that I care a lot about, I think the number of e-mails.calls.This is a very controversial issue, we understand that. And we think it's best, instead of trying to do this in a vacuum, trying to get a lot of public input. You see from this list we started off by sending over 2,000 newsletters to folks throughout the study corridor. We started getting feedback right after the first workshop where we did have over 200 attendees, that a lot of people were saying I live in the corridor or I own property, I didn't get a newsletter. Went through the property appraiser's site again. Went through, trying to go through all the return to sender, making sure that for the second time around everyone gets the proper information. Started gathering getting e-mail lists. Everyone who signed __ came to the meeting got put on a distribution list. Anyone who e-mailed me at any point with any questions, put into a distribution Page 12 April 17, 2006 list. That's something we tried to stay active with throughout. Started with the Estates Civic Association, being that it's always been a difficult process for us in working with the Estates. Besides them, there hasn't always been a lot of formal organizations to work through. That changed a little bit throughout this process. And you see late down the list that the concerned citizens group formed, and they've been very active in this process as well. As I stressed earlier, overlapping with the long-range plan process provided extra opportunities for input. You see a lot of open houses that -- you know, being that that was the first time we really looked in depth at Estates issues, even if we were doing an East Naples or North Naples workshop, the bulk of the attendees and the bulk of the questions were regarding the Estates and this project in particular. As we move forward, got through the second workshop where we had one of the highest attendance rates of any similar function, almost 300. Then we had a couple of forums with the Estates Civic Association, with the concerned citizens group again, and wanted to make sure that they were presented with this information first. And we did have our final findings of what we thought the preferred alternative was. Let them hear it from the horse's mouth. THE COURT REPORTER: Please slow down. MR. QUINTY: I'll try, thanks. And of course, there are a lot of stakeholders in this process. You've got the schools, you've got the parks, you've got utilities, tried keeping them in the loop. So we have been really meeting with a lot of folks and, you know, the culmination of all that is here tonight with you. Just to provide a little bit of history before we really get into the nuts and bolts of this. This project originated in the 2025 long-range plan. The MPO adopted this in 2001, in January. It was worked on throughout the year 2000. Page 13 April 17, 2006 One interesting note about the 2025 plan is west of 951 it's a pretty good plan. It had the population right, it sawall the needs correctly, it projected revenue fairly well. East of 951 it really left a lot to be desired. Any growth that they foresaw in the Estates was only out to Wilson. They really didn't foresee anything else really happening beyond that. One thing to really note in the plan is Vanderbilt Beach Road extension is in that plan out to Wilson Boulevard. East of Wilson Boulevard you don't see really anything all that helpful in this network. One of the keys I'll note, Golden Gate Boulevard itself east of Wilson, which is a huge problem for us right now and is high on our priority list, was not slated to be widened beyond two lanes by the year 2025, according to that plan. We all know that that needed to be widened yesterday. So it's something that -- you know, just to see how far, you know, we're trying to play catch-up on this. 2030 process, which you're all actively involved in, the focus really was the Estates, because seeing the rapid population growth, we had to really investigate a lot of new concepts. And Vanderbilt Beach Road, we thought the logical extension for that was, since you see so much growth in the northeastern part of the Estates, let's try to get that out to DeSoto. You see a whole new north Belle Meade network that evolved from the north Belle Meade area corridor study . You've got connections between Randall and Oil W ell. You've got widening shifted from Immokalee to Oil Well, so you see some rapid changes. But one thing we also stressed to everybody throughout this process is the long-range plan just lays out things conceptually. If there's a new alignment or major widening project in there, often cases you have to go through this corridor study type of process before it gets formal approval from this body. Another thing that we've really struggled with throughout this process is trying to layout exactly what the shorter term proj ects are Page 14 April 17, 2006 in the Estates area. You know, when you talk about 20, 25 years out, you see people's eyes start glazing over. People say, oh, I'm not going to be alive by then, I'm going to be someplace else by then, I don't really care about that. When you're talking five-year window, you get a lot more interest. You see Immokalee Road, Collier Boulevard are high on our list. The Boulevard, Golden Gate Boulevard east of Wilson, we got the good news last week through your approval process that the design . . process IS now ongoIng. But we've been accused throughout this process of focusing on Vanderbilt first before a lot of these other widening projects. And as you can tell from this map, just about every major boulevard in the Estates is in the pipeline. Just a little bit more detailed information on these projects. As you all know, Immokalee Road, every stretch of Immokalee Road basically from u.s. 41 out to Oil Well is under construction. The stretch east of 951 is the most urgent to the folks in this room. You've got 951, the northern portion, going to bid again this year. Oil Well is ongoing. The Boulevard we're thrilled about, but every project on this list below Oil Well has its host of issues. The Boulevard east of Wilson, there are a lot of homes set close to the road. We're looking at the idea of definitely widening to four. Should -- we'll be thinking about a six-lane right-of-way in the future to meet that need to try to get you to Wilson with some new options in the future. Not going to be an easy process there either. Here at Vanderbilt Beach Road extension, you've got houses, you've got golf courses, you've got wells, you've got canals; a whole mess of issues that you're going to hear about tonight that we're trying to juggle. I - 7 5 at Everglades, something that we're thrilled about the level of public support, we're thrilled about your support for this. Unfortunately there are a lot of state and federal hurdles that you have Page 15 April 17, 2006 to go through to make that reality. That feasibility study is underway. There's a huge interchange justification report process we have to go through. So there's a lot of steps to go on that. Everglades is tied to that process. We see some portions of Everglades, regardless of what happens, that's got to be widened. If you're going to hook up an interchange to it, we'd better start thinking a lot more seriously about six lanes. And in many portions of Everglades, a six-lane right-of-way, the way houses are oriented toward it is a scary proposition. Randall, Wilson, Wilson extension, Green. Randall and Wilson themselves are more short-term, relatively near-term projects. Wilson extension has a whole host of problems. That's something that you might be hearing from the rock mining folks in the next couple of months. As those concerns are raised today, we're ready to address those. And Green is something that's been added to the mix of this whole process. And quite honestly, as you can tell from this list of projects, that's last in the pipeline. That's nothing more than a concept. It was something that was included in that wider scale north Belle Meade effort. And it's something that again is going to have to go through this more detailed corridor study effort like we're doing for Vanderbilt before that becomes reality. So let me take a deep breath and ask any questions of you on the process or anything I've spoken about thus far. CHAIRMAN HALAS: I have a question. I want to get some clarification. When was this first put on the radar screen of the transportation department in regards to pushing out Vanderbilt? MR. QUINTY: 2000. It was in discussions as far as getting into the long-range plan. As part of the 2030 plan, that was discussed throughout. The first that we threw out for public review had it going out to DeSoto. So it's, you know, been a little bit under the radar as far -- you know, Page 16 April 17, 2006 as you're aware, unfortunately the long-range plan doesn't get people very, very interested. When you get more serious about lines on a map, that's when you get this outpouring of interest. But it's been in the pipeline for at least five, six years and more seriously in recent years. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you. I wanted to get that clarified where we were on this. MR. QUINTY: And with thatI'll turn it over to -- if there's no more questions, I'll to turn it over to Jeff Perry to discuss the traffic issues in more detail. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Are there any questions from Commissioners before we proceed on? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Please proceed. MR. PERRY: Good evening, Commissioners. For the record, my name is Jeff Perry, Transportation Planning Manager with Wilson-Miller. Our role in this particular project was to analyze the traffic to identify and essentially confirm whether or not there was a need for this particular facility. Joe has mentioned in the broader context, this has been discussed for a number of years in the long-range planning process, but whenever you undertake a corridor study of this type, you begin to focus in on a particular corridor, different alignments, different alternatives, different lane calls, for instance, two lanes versus four lanes versus six lanes. Different intersecting roadways, specific alignments that might take a roadway one way or another. In this particular study effort we ended up using two different models, computer model sets. Early on in the process when we started, we had the adopted 2025 model and its companion 2010 model. Late in the process we were given the 2015 and 2030 models. The importance of that is having a second set of computerized Page 17 April 17, 2006 simulations to look at and compare, to sort of validate whether or not your first set of assumptions were correct. The travel models are basically two parts. You have highway networks and you have land use. The highway networks and the land use can be changed, and that's how you get different models. You're able to adjust a particular model for -- by adding a road or by deleting a road. You're able to adjust the land use growth in a particular model to go from 2010 to 2015 to 2025. I'm going to walk you through a few examples of that. Some of the very same graphics and exhibits we talked about at our public workshops with the public. We looked at four different horizon years. We looked at 2010, which initially was considered to be the opening year. We also looked at 2025 of that same model set. We later came back and looked at 2015 and 2030. During the course of the study, we looked at -- our firm looked at 14 different alternatives, using both of those models. When I say alternatives, I'm talking about extending from one point to another, from Collier Boulevard all the way to 13th, Collier Boulevard to Wilson, Collier Boulevard out to Everglades or DeSoto Boulevard. And in every instance we analyzed the no-build or the do nothing alternative, because that in fact is the one you compare everything else to. And we're going to show you some examples of that. In just a moment I'm going to show you a summary table of those 14 alternatives. I will tell you that as late as last week the county's long-range planning consultant also used their models to analyze seven other refinements to those networks, looking at some of the other intricacies of the Belle Meade models connecting to Wilson, the 1-75 connections and the like. So there was more than 21 different model assignments used to analyze traffic in this particular project study. During the course of running a model, what you end up with, Page 18 April 17, 2006 once the computer simulates the traffic coming from one area to another called traffic zones, it actually assigns that traffic to the individual roadways that you have programmed in the network. So when you have a particular roadway system that has two-lane roadways or four-lane roadways, the model uses those roadways to actually send traffic along its merry way from one traffic zone to the next. This is an example of the 2004 existing conditions model, which actually looks at those volumes and capacities of the roadway. When we're talking about capacities or service volumes, we're actually talking about the adopted standard of service, what your county comprehensive plan says is acceptable from a capacity standpoint. What we do is we compare the volume of traffic, whether it's actually measured by those two counters that you drive across, measuring real traffic, compare that against the roadway's capacity, or we can actually, looking out into the future, examine a future projection of traffic and compare that to the level of service. And we end up with what we call the volume capacity ratio, how much of your roadway capacity is actually being consumed by individual traffic assignments. One other technique we often use is to be able to look at corridors in the context of multiple roadways. We're talking about east-west movements here. We're talking about a brand new east-west corridor that will, in part, help the east-west movements along Golden Gate Boulevard, along Immokalee Road and any other east-west roadways that currently carry traffic. To do this we look in the aggregate form, adding the volumes together on all of the different east-west roads to see how many people are moving in the east-west direction and comparing that individually from one assignment to the next or also collectively to see how much capacity you have in a network with two or three roads compared to the amount of traffic that you want to use. That's very important, because that's going to be what I'm going to be Page 19 April 17, 2006 showing you in the sample. Let me show you a couple of other examples. The previous example, color coded for levels of service, was the existing conditions. This is the 2025 no-build scenario, the do nothing option, if you will. And you can see in the blowup here that along Golden Gate Boulevard, if we do not have a Vanderbilt Beach Road extension, we end up with over 47,000 vehicles a day traveling that particular stretch of highway. We also end up with about 68,000 vehicles along Immokalee Road in that particular area, and both of those roads become deficient, become level of service problems. The same alternative year, 2025, with Vanderbilt Beach Road built into the model -- as you can see, it's that little second pair of yellow roadways there, the Golden Gate Boulevard is the southern one, Vanderbilt Beach Road extending all the way out to DeSoto Boulevard -- are operating at reasonable levels of service. The further east you go, the less volumes you have, they're operating at better levels of service. These two assignments, 25.3 and 25.4, are essentially identical with the exception of the I - 7 5 interchange. We analyzed most of the alternatives with and without a new interchange at I-75, because long-range that's where the county wants to be headed. So we want to make sure that we're accounting for it. We also, during the very end of the study, began to use the -- look at the most current, up-to-date, validated 2015 and 2030 models that the county had available to it. This is important because these are the most refined, the best land uses. As Joe indicated, there were some very detailed land use analyses done for Golden Gate Estates as part of the 2030 long-range update. 2015 was sort of an interim year model that was developed. This one shows you how be broke the Vanderbilt Beach link which is in that model to actually show no traffic on that particular roadway, to see how the other roads load up. Page 20 April 17, 2006 This is the same model with Vanderbilt Beach Road completely built in there, carrying traffic along its entire length. And I'm going to show you the sort of a summary of all of these different assignments on this particular table. It bears a little bit of explanation. If you'll bear with me, I'll just kind of explain how we've organized it here, because I think it's going to give you a summary of what we found. On the left-hand side, the left-most column are all of the 14 assignments plus the existing conditions daily traffic. Each one is assignment -- 10.0 stands for 2010-0, 2010-1, 2010-2, numerical sequence. Each of these models has a no-build alternative. To the right we have three columns that list the -- at the top list the capacity of the roadway in the model and also list the respective volume that was generated by the model for Vanderbilt Beach Road extension, Golden Gate Boulevard, Immokalee Road. All of these particular volumes are basically just east of Collier Boulevard, okay? We would have a similar set of these screen line volumes at any point on the roadway. We've chosen here, since it's the worst end of the roadway, so to speak, it's where the highest volumes are, we've chosen to reflect them here as an example. We've also included a collection of roadway, it's called White 16th extension Wilson to Landfill. They only appear in the 2030 model. As Joe indicated, there was a refinement of that model that included that Belle Meade network of roadways, including a southern extension of Wilson down to Landfill just north of 1-75, collected out to Collier Boulevard. That adds additional capacity to the system. So we've measured it here, both in capacity and also in the volume. The last three columns -- the first two east-west corridor screen line volumes, that is the sum of the other volumes to the left. That's simply, if you're reading from left to right, you simply add up those volumes and it's the sum of all the east-west movements. The next column to the right is called the screen line capacity, Page 21 April 17, 2006 and that is what your adopted levels of service are, basically. It's the capacity that you're providing in these models for people to travel in an east-west direction. To the right of that is the volume capacity ratio. It's simply one divided by the other to yield a fraction of the amount of capacity consumed. As an example, if you focus on 15.0 and 15.1, the latest model, 15.0 is the no-build which does not have Vanderbilt Beach Road carrying any traffic in it, 15.1 extends all the way from Collier Boulevard all the way out to DeSoto. You'll notice that VBR in 2015 expects to carry about 13,000 vehicles a day. Golden Gate Boulevard at the same time in 15.1 is carrying about 15,500. Immokalee Road's carrying about 55,600. The line right above it, if you don't build Vanderbilt Beach Road, obviously there's nothing being carried on Vanderbilt Beach Road, 26,000 vehicles a day on Golden Gate Boulevard, 57,000, almost 58,000 on Immokalee Road. All the way over to the right, you'll see at the very last column, .96 means that without Vanderbilt Beach extension, the no-build alternative will be operating -- your east-west corridors will be operating at capacity by 2015. With Vanderbilt Beach Road, you will be at about 70 percent of your capacity available to travelers. If you carry this down all the way to the 25 and 30 assignments, 2025 and 2030 assignments, you'll see again the no-build scenario, everything is badly over capacity. 1.41, in other words, more than 41 percent of over capacity. Only if you build the roadway do you get to at least a point in 2025 where you have an operating level of service that is basically at capacity, .99 or 1.01. It's only if you build the other roadways in 2030, 16th, Green, 16th connection, Wilson Boulevard down to Landfill, put all of those roadway network improvement in there, you stay below the 1.0. In other words, you have adequate capacity in all your east-west movements to carry people into and out of Golden Gate Estates as Page 22 April 17, 2006 long as you build Vanderbilt Beach Road. Without it goes upside down again with 1.09. That's in 2030. This is the kind of analysis -- this analysis that we did for all of the alternatives, looking at all of the various options, extending it, building two lanes, building four lanes for all of the different 14 alternatives. What we found in conclusion is that a minimum of four lanes is necessary to meet the requirements for 2015, 2025 and 2030 traffic demands. Four lanes on Vanderbilt Beach extension. We would suspect, based on the 2030 assignments, that without it you would need a six-lane facility to carry you beyond 2030, simply because of the volume capacity ratios that you have at 2030. We all know that there is growth and development after 2030. As a result of this set of findings, we would suggest that a 200- foot wide six -lane corridor be analyzed the entire length all the way out to DeSoto Boulevard. Do you have any questions about the traffic work that we did? I'll be glad to answer them now, or perhaps take questions after the speakers. CHAIRMAN HALAS: I have -- Commissioner Henning would like to ask a question. COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's being said that this road is being built for Ave Maria and the other special districts. Have you studied the traffic patterns way out Eastern Collier County? And how -- where the traffic is coming from? So I can understand that. MR. PERRY: The traffic is coming -- first of all, the Ave Maria project and other projects that are in the county's adopted long-range model are in there. The amount of traffic that actually finds its way onto one particular road can be traced. In other words, you can find exactly how much traffic is coming from one zone to another. We didn't specifically look at one or any other zones in terms of which zone Page 23 April 17, 2006 was generating more traffic on a particular roadway. I would suspect and I would tell you that the majority of traffic coming from north Golden Gate Estates, Orangetree and projects to the east of that, being Ave Maria, that is coming to the west is going to be traveling down Immokalee Road, some of it will travel down Everglades Boulevard down to points, Golden Gate Boulevard and so forth. Traffic has a tendency to balance itself, to find the shortest, fastest way of travel from one point to another. So my answer to you would be we didn't specially look at it, but I would tell you that there is probably a mix of traffic within each of these roadway corridors. The bulk of the Ave Maria traffic, Orangetree traffic, north Golden Gate Estates traffic is probably going to be using Immokalee Road. This particular corridor will be sharing the load from Immokalee Road as well from the traffic that's now using Golden Gate Boulevard. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, the -- you have to justify the traffic and where they're generated. And I just want to know where the call is for this improvement. Is it because of those two districts, is it because of the platted lands in Golden Gate Estates' vested rights, or is it a combination? MR. QUINTY: Good comparison is -- (Audience disruption.) COMMISSIONER HENNING: Wait a minute, wait a minute, we're going to get the answer. We're going to get the answer. MR. QUINTY: The 2025 model does not have Ave Maria or anything east of DeSoto and the Boulevard besides right around urban Immokalee. The 2030 model does. And in fact what we did through a late phase of our long-range plan process is that consultant ran a trip trace of where Golden Gate Estates traffic analysis zones, what percentage of various road segments has Estates residents on it in the future years. That's something I can put on the visualizer for you. Page 24 April 17, 2006 Basically what we're showing is anything in red on this shows -- has over 50 percent Estates traffic only, and smaller percentages. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: What year is it? MR. QUINTY: That's the 2015 network, using the Ave Maria. 2030 here has even more red, and it's something -- I know on the visualizer it might be hard to see. I could pass it up to you for your reVIew. Then they looked at the existing plus committed networks. Basically you've got anything east of 951, regardless of all these other things being included, basically over half the traffic is Estates residents driving on Estates' roads. COMMISSIONER HENNING: I know that community development did a study not too long ago about what's been built in Golden Gate Estates and what's being projected. Did you use any of that data? MR. QUINTY: That was -- raised a lot of headlines a few months back. That was a very quick and simple analysis of looking at a straight line projection for a couple of peak years and seeing what the build-out would be for the Estates itself. That got a lot of people's attention. As far as a more detailed effort doing so, we've got a build-out study that's coming to you in the next month or so, and we use some of those assumptions as part of our analysis where, not just looking at the Estates where that quick and dirty analysis was hey, if it goes at this rate every lot in the Estates is going to build out by 2016. Do I think or hope that happens? I certainly don't think so, that's not what our 2030 network assumed. But when we're looking at buildout 2030 and beyond and more realistic, it's looking at both the Estates and all the lands around it. And that's what really scares us. And that's not included in what -- those red lines that you see right there. COMMISSIONER HENNING: So the growth in Golden Gate Page 25 April 17, 2006 Estates, if it keeps on going like it has been historically, we're not going to hit the target for providing the infrastructure; is that what you're saying? MR. QUINTY: Correct. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Wow. I mean, we're talking Vanderbilt, Everglades, of course naturally Golden Gate Boulevard, Wilson Boulevard south, all those roads, we're not going to hit the target. MR. QUINTY: No. That's the -- we've been playing so much catch-up in the urban area, you know, we're still kind of paying the price for that stretch during the Nineties where we were growing and didn't build the network to accommodate it, so -- and we're still working on roads like Immokalee, like Vanderbilt west of 951, where we should already be out ahead of it, we should already have been doing the Boulevard and looking at some of these other networks. And unfortunately here we think we're doing some smart long-range planning for Vanderbilt but then you look -- to really make it function, you don't just need Vanderbilt, you need everything that's being talked about. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is there any way -- well, I know we talked to this, these platted lands is hard to stop people from building on. MR. QUINTY: Correct. I know environmental permitting for individual lots can be challenging, but as far as -- you know, that's not subj ect to concurrency. Future commercial in the Estates would be, but the single-family homes platted lands is not. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Thank you. CHAIRMAN HALAS: This is a question I'd like Wilson-Miller to -- representative from Wilson-Miller, Jeff. How long has Wilson-Miller been doing traffic studies here in Collier County? And then the next question I have to follow up on that, with your modeling characteristics that you use, what is the plus or minus Page 26 April 17, 2006 percentage of accuracy in your modeling? So there's two questions there. MR. PERRY: Jeff Perry. Wilson-Miller, I joined the firm in 1998, as you may know, after a 23-year career with Collier County. Wilson-Miller prior to that time I don't believe did a lot of transportation planning work. They did a lot of engineering design work. Our planning exercises began after I joined the firm. The level of accuracy, it's very hard to predict how accurate a model will be because so many of the variables change. The growth rates change. What we suggest to you today is going to happen in 2025, you know, I can't even begin to give you an answer as to whether or not we're within five or 10 percent. I can tell you, I've been living in Collier County and working in Collier County since 1973. I would suggest to you that our modeling effort can never really anticipate the amount of growth -- could never have anticipated the amount of growth that we've experienced on our roadways and our land uses in the past 25 years. It never, as Joe indicated in the long-range planning exercise, never could have anticipated those market fluctuations, those rapid growth kind of situations. The model accuracy itself, when it's validated, I can tell you when a model is validated for in this case the year 2000, it's within three percent accuracy. CHAIRMAN HALAS: That's the answer I'm looking for. MR. PERRY: The future of it is really based on how we good we do our projections of future land use growth and anticipate that growth over time. One other point I wanted to make before we get off the issue of the other models. The 2025 model, as Joe said, did not have Ave Maria or the other special district. The 2030 model has Ave Maria in it but it has no development of that special district. There is nothing Page 27 April 17, 2006 approved and there's a small amount of land use out there that the county has anticipated, but it's not generating any of the traffic volumes that we're talking about here. That's that area immediately to the east of Golden Gate Estates. CHAIRMAN HALAS: I have one last question and that is, did your firm have anything to do as far as the modeling of Livingston? MR. PERRY: Livingston Road? I was part of Livingston Road when I was at the county, so I'm not exactly sure how to answer the question. When I was with Wilson-Miller in my early years, we were responsible for doing the modeling that got the county about $9 million worth of grants for Livingston Road, to improve the need for that particular road. So yes, I would say we did have something to do with Livingston Road. CHAIRMAN HALAS: And where I'm leading this -- where I'm going with this questioning is the fact that as we know today, I don't know if anybody's really projected, had a projection of what Livingston was going to carry in the short period of time that it's been open. Can you verify that? Maybe our Transportation Department? MR. SCOTT: The volumes that we carry right now are above what was projected, at least in the 2025, in the 2010 models we're, you know, anywhere from five to seven years ahead of schedule. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Five to seven years ahead of schedule -- MR. SCOTT: Yes. CHAIRMAN HALAS: -- since we opened it up. And that's been about what, 18 months ago? MR. SCOTT: All the way through, yeah. And it's not with the connections all the way to Lee County, which I think we'll see greater numbers in the future. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Coletta? COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, I've been here for about 22 years now and have seen projections in the past that tell me Page 28 April 17, 2006 historically -- I don't know if anyone standing up there can really answer this -- historically have our projections been on or have they always been short? MR. FEDER: For the record, Norman Feder, Transportation Administrator. For the record, unfortunately they've typically been short. One thing we're asked to do is look at the modeling in the past. And quite often the beginning of the modeling process is your population control total, and we've never assumed a level of population in control that has met the actual growth that this area has experienced. And what I mean by that is essentially the population that we assumed in 20-year planning in prior models basically was realized after about 12 years. So obviously we were understating the demands and the needs. And typically you end up understating in a fast growth area like we're experiencing. ^ COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, I'm becoming more concerned as this conversation goes on. If I may, and please tell me you did, this modeling that we've got coming up is taking into effect the fact that we're going to have the baby boomers coming in on the next 10 years and it's going to be a big spike in the population? Please tell me that's been added into the model. MR. FEDER: You have a higher level of population, considerably higher than was used in the last model for 2025. It's still using basically out of the University of Florida, we're using the high in the beginning and then towards the middle range, and so you're not overstating it. If anything, as I said, historically we've been understating. As was noted, even in our 2030 model, while we have Ave Maria, we didn't have it in 2025, and even then it showed the need for the Vanderbilt Beach Road extension at least to Wilson. With Ave Maria, with the other growth that we've had out there, shows the need out to DeSoto. Page 29 April 17, 2006 So what I'm telling you, if anything, it is a little bit understated, because we know right now that the Big Cypress community development district is looming, other development. And what you'll see a little bit later is what I call the measle map, something that shows that just in the -- between the year, year and a half since we started this study and had the aerials, all the growth has been occurring out along this corridor, a very fast-growing area. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Any other questions? Ifnot, we'll continue. (No response.) MR. GRAMER: I'm Bill Gramer with CH2M Hill. I'm project manager for this particular corridor study. What we've done, and what you just heard Jeff talk about, is the need to build this corridor. And what we did for purposes of this corridor study is we determined that we'd use a six-lane ultimate corridor study, which will give the worst case scenarios for all the impacts. And so any information or any revisions to this study would yield better results or less impact results, rather, than worse results. So as we went along, we used the six-lane corridor, you know, also taking into consideration a potential initial four-lane corridor within that six-lane segment. The environmental issues I'm going to walk you through just a little bit. We looked at the corridor as a whole, the entire project area, 15 different alternatives, 23 different roadway segments to determine environmental impacts to this corridor. We went through wetland impacts, uplands, protected species, the need for wildlife crossings, contamination, both noise and air quality, as well as potential impacts to threatened and endangered species. The good news is for this corridor, regardless of what alternative we take, the environmental impacts as a whole, relatively speaking, are pretty minor. Regardless of the different corridors that may be looked at as part Page 30 April 17, 2006 of this study, the impacts in terms of overall impacts to the corridor, threatened and endangered species were found to be minimal. The wetland impacts range from anywhere from 10 acres to a total of potentially 60 some-odd acres, and that's over a 10-mile corridor. Right-of-way and traffic issues: We already talked about traffic issues. The right-of-way was a huge concern of ours during this corridor study. Determine impacts to vacant parcels that are out there today, determine residential impacts, potential residential displacements, as well as business impacts. We looked at, you know, potential access management issues with the different corridors, as well as determine the roadway benefits and the cons associated with each of these different alternatives. We looked at these impacts at the beginning of the study as soon as we got started, and then as late as last month we finalized all the impacts again, looked at all the new homes that were built out there. From the time we started this study, approximately January 2005 until now, there has been an addition of approximately 108 homes that are either already built, under construction or have been permitted along the different various segments of this corridor. And that's with the unknown, the build or no-build alternative that's been out there for the last year and a half that people are knowing about. So the corridor is growing fast. And one of the reasons we tried to expedite this schedule is to get a decision, build or no-build, done as quickly as possible, to get rid of the veil of unknown. And that's what a lot of the comments from the public meeting dealt with is, you know, we want an answer. One way or the other, we want an answer. So that's how we went along. What I'm going to do now,is I'm going to walk you down portions of the corridor, and I assume -- you know, this could be a good interactive portion of the presentation because we're going to walk down the whole 10 miles of the corridor and talk about the various impacts in each segment. So feel free to stop me as we go Page 3 1 April 17, 2006 along. It's going to be hard to remember things as we get towards the end. What we used is an alternatives evaluation matrix which is used in most corridor studies and PD&E studies, like we talked about, where a lot of different alternatives are loaded into the matrix to start with. And as you go through the public involvement process and the refinement process of the feasible alternatives, you reduce those corridors down to a few corridors. And then at the very end of the study you come up with a preferred alternative as far as the study goes. And this preferred alternative in the corridors is what we're presenting to the board today. This is a small version of the matrix that we put together. In it, it shows the 23 corridor segments that we looked at. And these corridor segments were broken up by either geographic locations or some physical site restraints or potential phasing of the project such as stopping at Wilson Boulevard for the initial phase of the project and continuing it out to DeSoto Boulevard. And what you see here, the impacts that we looked at are business impacts, residential impacts, both special land use impacts, other corridor impacts, right-of-way impacts and natural environmental impacts. And we looked at these by each different segment of the corridor in each 23 segments as we went along. What we did is, to make things a little more manageable we combined these 23 segments into 15 feasible corridors. And what I mean by feasible corridors is once you start along a different corridor determination, whether it's north of the canal, south of the canal, whatever, which way we go, or down an existing road or perhaps a back lot line, you usually don't vary too much jumping from north of the canal to south of the canal as you go out. There's just too many impacts, too much of a right-of-way concerns, there's safety issues and there's also geometric issues concerned with designing a roadway for a 50-mile-an-hour design speed potentially. Page 32 April 17, 2006 So as you can see here, these are just a few of the different alternatives, the alternative alignments that have been shown to the public at the first public meeting and also at the second public meeting. What we're going to do now is jump through a little bit of a different view of these corridors and walk you down the corridors, starting from the west end of the project where it aligns with Collier Boulevard. The exhibits you see here are the exhibits that were shown at the two public meetings. Right here on the screen you see segment A, which was pretty much the only alternative in this area. You have -- it connects up with Collier Boulevard right, where the existing Vanderbilt Beach project which is currently under construction stops. Heads towards the east. You can see due to the existing church on the north side that's being constructed right now and also the water treatment plant, Collier County's water treatment plant, it pretty much dictated that the alignment would go south, would go on top of the existing roadway and then towards the south in this one area. As you move further to the east, you could see segments BA, BB and BC. And this was one of the areas that proved the -- you know, we put the most time into with these different alternatives. I'll start with the BA alternative. And the BA simply stands for segment B, A being above the canal. As you go along the top portion of the road, you see there's numerous things to be considered: There's the Vanderbilt Beach, there's the Vanderbilt Country Club homes that are in the upper left corner of your screen. There are some well sites that run along the entire north section of the roadway. And those well sites are deep injection wells. Impacts to those wells run in the neighborhood of between 1.75 and $3 million to replace or relocate those wells. Those are considered as part of the study. Along the BA alignment there's nine potential well impacts. Page 33 April 17, 2006 There's two home impacts, two residential displacements with the BA alternatives. Also with the BA alternatives you have impact to both the Golf Club of the Everglades and Old Florida Golf Club. We took those impacts into consideration and worked with the golf clubs and their golf architects to determine what potential impacts may be, which I included in the executive summary. And as you can see in this area with the two golf clubs, we're looking at an impact difference of about 45 to $50 million between going on the north side of the canal to the south side -- (Audience disruption.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Ladies and gentlemen, if you would refrain. You're going to have your chance to speak, okay? We just want to get through the process here. I'd appreciate it very, very much, your cooperation. MR. GRAMER: That's the Delta difference, after the -- to answer this lady's question -- after the consideration of what the home impacts may be for some residential displacements on the south side of the canal. But I'll talk about those in a second. So on the north side of the canal, impacts to the golf courses were considerable. Also things that we considered for those impacts were loss of jobs for about 12 to 15 months for a good percentage of the golf course staff. For the Golf Club of the Everglades, one of the considerations that was taken into discussion was the fact that if we did have impacts to this golf course, it may no longer be able to function as a golf course. We didn't take that to a full monetary consideration, so the numbers that I'm using are pretty much the minimal to average numbers of what the potential impacts could be. Also to be brought up is also the impacts to the golf courses, potentially each of them individually owned, with membership running in 175 members for one golf club and 275 for the other golf Page 34 April 17, 2006 club. So there would be considerable coordination and negotiations associated with that. As you move further to the east on the north alignment with the BA alternative, you can see it pretty much -- once you get past the golf courses, we're into what's considered the county's -- the school zone where the future schoolway is going to go, up in the upper right-hand portion of your screen, as well as a potential passive recreational -- passive and active recreational park that the county's considering in that area. In that area of the corridor, the BA corridor still runs on the north side of the canal. What I would like to talk about now is go through the two other alternatives, which is the BB -- start with the BB alternative, which completely runs on the south side of the canal. Impacts to homes in this area: The residential displacements are approximately 13 residential displacements in here. There's no impacts to any of the wellfields. There is a -_ regardless of whether you -- whether you choose the BA or the BB alternative, there are still home impacts with each one of them. This is significant impacts in the one area where we do have the largest number of residential or potential residential displacements, and so we focused a lot on this area. The other alternative that you see on here, which is the BC alternative, was a revision and a refinement of a combination of the BA and the BB alternatives, which minimized the amount of homes that were impacted and also minimized the amount of impacts to the wellfields that were shown in there. And with that alternative, it reduces the amount of home takes and reduces the amount of impacts to the wellfield. So as you can see in the transition area on the west, and also as you get further east, you can see the transitions, once you get past approximately the outside of the golf courses and the first Conservation Collier parcel, we start to transition back to the north Page 35 April 17, 2006 and run through the schools and the park properties. Are there any comments on -- or any questions on the B alignments or the B segments of this corridor before we move to the next board? CHAIRMAN HALAS: Yes. I'd like to have a better definition of the wells. What type of wells are these? MR. GRAMER: These are deep injection water wells which take care of the water supply. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, they're not -- we're not injecting water into them, we're actually pumping water-- MR. GRAMER: I'm sorry, you're pumping water from the wells, that's correct. CHAIRMAN HALAS: I think Jim DeLony, the Director of Utilities, is here. Jim, you can leave your coat off. MR. DeLONY: Thank you, sir. Good evening, sir and gentlemen, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Jim DeLony, Public Utilities Administrator. Sir, would you ask your question one more time so I can answer it correctly? CHAIRMAN HALAS: Well, there was a discussion that these were deep injection wells, and I thought that they were water supply wells. MR. DeLONY: That's correct, sir. They are deep wells, though, that's where they're coming down there. They're deep Hawthorne wells from the Hawthorne aquifer. And so that's probably where that confusion is coming from. But these indeed are production water wells. CHAIRMAN HALAS: What is the average depth of these wells? Do you have -- MR. DeLONY: In this area, somewhere between 700 and 900 feet. So these are deep wells in that sense, and that's what we classify Page 36 April 17, 2006 as a deep well. CHAIRMAN HALAS: And what would you say is the projected value of each of these wells? Do you have some-- MR. DeLONY: Yes, sir, we do. We actually ran some numbers that we provided to the delivery team. I don't know if you put those to chart or not. But the bottom line of this thing, under the allocation, there are three wells that were affected under these route considerations that you were briefed on. Route Well4N, 12N and 13N were the three wells that were under this route for consideration. We looked at them, and the impact is not on the specific well sites themselves but also on the underlying pipelines associated with these wells and bringing that raw water back to the plant. Depending on which scenario we go with, for example, the relocation costs for Well 4N, all N, this would be the full relocation with the thought just moving it to the north and procuring the real estate and doing the relocation is about $3.2 million for We1l4N. Ifwe relocate 12N and 13N, which were the far wells to the east, I believe, on this alignment, these are the furthest ones to the east, relocating those two wells together is about $3.8 million. And if you locate all three, the addition is about $11 million for all three wells relocated, to include the transmission mains, the actual property acquisition, the permits and anything else associated with that well abandonment that we would make on those three wells. Sir, did I answer your question? CHAIRMAN HALAS: Yes, you did. Commissioner Fiala? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. If you wanted to go around those wells, how far away do you need to stay from those wells? MR. DeLONY: Just far enough for us to be able to operate and maintain them. And as far as influence to those, being the fact that they're deep wells, we're not concerned about any surface water Page 37 April 17, 2006 interface because they're very, very deep and those aquifers are sealed. So there's not a potential with regard to the use of the well to cure raw water, but the concerns of course would be setbacks so we can get in there and operate them and maintain them. And so we have a footprint actually in the Land Development Code that provides for what those setbacks ought to be, and we would look to try to maintain those for the safety and the safe operation of those wells as well as protect the people that would be working on them. COMMISSIONER FIALA: So give me a guess with feet? Ten feet? MR. DeLONY: Anywhere from 50 to 150 feet is our typical square, postage stamp size for these wells. So we'd want them to stand back from any rights-of-way -- within the rights-of-way, but certainly from any traveled way at least 50, preferably 100 feet so there's a good standoff from that well to the road. COMMISSIONER FIALA: From the center of the well, you need 50 feet? MR. DeLONY: At least that, yes, ma'am. Something like that, , yes, ma am. And it would be site specific and we would work with the alignment team as to how that would actually come out. The tougher piece of this is to make sure that we don't put any pipes underneath the road. Any pipes that would be in that right-of-way that would have to be relocated outside of the traveled way, so we could maintain them. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Coletta? COMMISSIONER COLETTA: When were these wells put in? MR. DeLONY: Oh, gosh. I don't -- I mean, it's not within the last year or two. I'm trying to go back in time. I believe -- Jim, help me out. But I believe all these came in around 2000; 1999, 2000, somewhere in that area there. A couple of them, yeah. Page 38 April 17, 2006 COMMISSIONER COLETTA: What I'm curious about is-- MR. DeLONY: Yes, sir? COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- when you first started contemplating Vanderbilt Beach Road, playing with the lines on the map, these wells went in prior to that or did they go in after that? MR. DeLONY: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I mean, I'm not aware of any rights-of-way associated with corridor planning for roads that were in. The rights-of-way that were in, currently those easements were South Florida Management easements or easements we procured either from the school board or from our parks and recs folks, or from the adjacent landowners, the -- either the people to the south on the canal or the people on the north side of the canal, for each one of these well sites. I don't know of any transportation rights-of-way that we were in right now. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, Commissioner Fiala's question was a good one. If you located the road to the north of the well field and you didn't impact the wellfield and you wouldn't have the cost of the wellfield, what would that do, would it drive up the cost or would the cost come down? MR. DeLONY: For? COMMISSIONER COLETTA: For the road itself. MR. DeLONY: I'd have to defer that to these guys. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: You're going to need more of the golf course, undoubtedly, then. What would that mean? How would that translate? MR. GRAMER: Okay, one of the things we did, and the three wells that Mr. DeLony was talking about are associated with the BC alignment. If you went with the BA alignment, which is the alternative that runs completely on the north side of the canal, you're talking about nine wells. So about three times the $11 million estimate that Mr. DeLony put out there. Ifwe moved -- to answer your question, if we moved it Page 39 April 17, 2006 completely north of the wellfield to stay out of that area too, there would be severe -- more severe impacts to both of the golf courses in the neighborhood of what would be -- it would definitely put the one golf course out of business at a cost of approximately $46 million. And the other golf course would severely limit its capabilities for any kind of expansion that they've had planned since they purchased the land. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: You're saying the cost wouldn't be less, it would be more? MR. GRAMER: That's correct. By the time you added the right-of-way and the additional impacts to the golf course, which would be substantial. One of the other alternatives that we did look at this at the request of the public was potentially placing the whole entire canal in a box culvert and placing the road on top of it. Unfortunately the costs associated with that were pretty substantial, running about $33 million a mile. So for the 30,000 lineal foot of this corridor that could potentially parallel the canal, you're talking in the neighborhood of $200 million just to box culvert the canal. It does not take into consideration any permitting or environmental impacts that that would have, which environmentally would be substantial, due to the loss of wildlife that would be done, as well as the constructibility and maintenance issues associated with having basically a box culvert that's a five-barrel, 12 by 12 box culvert 60 feet wide and 12 feet high under the middle of your roadway. It would be almost impossible to maintain. CHAIRMAN HALAS: When you were talking about the impact of the golf course, what are we really talking about here? Are we talking about the equity membership? Is this also factored into this, or is this just the cost of the land? Can you be a little more specific on this? MR. GRAMER: Yeah. What we did, to the dismay of the golf Page 40 April 17, 2006 course, is we did not factor in what I call the soft costs, which is potential loss of membership, the fact that the golf courses will be not in operation for 12 to 15 months and what impact that may have on the golfers and the residents -- the owners of the golf course and the players of the golf course, where would they go, where would they play. (Audience disruption.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Quiet, please. MR. GRAMER: Soft costs like that, I did not put a -- I did not quantify those, because those are definitely an opinionated cost, so they were not included, but they are an impact and it would be an impact to the cost of this. CHAIRMAN HALAS: When you say this $45 million or $50 million and you're looking at the people that have memberships there, are you factoring in the equity membership, the cost of that? I mean, let's not talk about playing golf and all this other thing, I want to know the actuals in regards to why it's 40 to $45 million, okay? Can you tell me that? MR. GRAMER: Yes. What it impacts is you impact with each of the golf courses pretty much or one of the golf courses the maintenance facility, as well as two of the holes that are parallel to the roadway. By doing that, to reconfigure the golf course you'd impact approximately seven holes for each of the corridor at a cost of approximately $2 million apiece to reconfigure all of those holes. Add to that the cost of the wages that would have to be paid to the people. You can't just let -- fire 75 people for 15 months and expect them to come back 15 months later. Also put into consideration was the right-of-way costs that would actually be __ have to be taken into consideration. Also taken into consideration was the fact that one of the golf courses estimated at $46 million if it was impacted. But if we went in and bought mitigation credits and put Page 41 April 17, 2006 some of the holes out on wetlands or mitigated properties right now they'd have to obviously pay into a mitigation bank. Approximately $3 million was added to that cost; otherwise, the cost would have been higher for the two golf courses than the $45 million total. So you're talking about 20 to 25 million per golf course. CHAIRMAN HALAS: So what you're telling me is when you move the physical area of the golf course, that is where we're incurring the cost of the $45 million, because it's a wetland area. So that we have to end up paying the mitigation cost; is that what you're tying to get across to me? MR. GRAMER: That's an option. And that's actually the cheapest option that we came up with in terms of doing that. The option that the golf course actually had was substantially higher, which was basically trying to buy land outside of what they already own, from adjacent property owners, which there are a couple locations that they could potential do that. But it's hard to, you know, quantify that potential. You know, there's a lot of assumptions that would have to be made. And so what I tried to do is just stick with the basic facts. And if it was my golf course and I had to reconfigure this the cheapest way possible, what it would actually cost to do within reason. CHAIRMAN HALAS: But where did you come up with the 45 to $50 million? I mean, you had to use -- there had to be some nexus to this. MR. GRAMER: Yeah, the construction costs that were broken down in the right-of-way impacts-- COMMISSIONER COYLE: Mr. Chairman, could I make a comment about -- CHAIRMAN HALAS: I'm sorry, yes. COMMISSIONER COYLE: I just thought it might be helpful in that respect. Under law, whenever we seize or take anyone's property, whether Page 42 April 17, 2006 it's residential property or commercial property, and we cause harm to it, we have to pay damages in addition to the actual cost of the property that we take. So if it's a business and we cause harm to the business, we have to calculate the costs associated with that harm, and that is a cost of the acquisition of the land. You will recall that we took some land in front of a fire station and we had to pay a substantial amount of money to settle that. Although the fire station still remained operational, we had to pay money, because we had impacted their ability to operate. We had to do the same thing with Wal-Mart. So when we take property, it's not just the actual price of the land that we're taking, we have to appreciate -- or we have to calculate the damages that are caused to the business or to the homeowner for our taking of that land. And I think -- am I correct about that calculation? Is that what you essentially did when you took into consideration all these other factors? MR. GRAMER: That's correct. One of the things we did take into consideration was the loss of revenue for shutting down the golf courses for a period of 12 to 15 months for each of the different golf courses. COMMISSIONER COYLE: And that's something we have to do by law. That's not something we're just throwing out there to be nice people. MR. GRAMER: That's correct. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay, thank you. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you very much for your clarification, Commissioner. Are there any other questions? If not, we'll continue on. (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: What we're going to do is we'll go for another 10 minutes, and then I'd like to give the court reporter a Page 43 April 17, 2006 10-minute break. And I ask that the commissioners make sure that they return promptly after the 10-minute break so we can continue on, hopefully address all the concerns and let all the people talk as this unfolds in front of us. So continue on. MR. GRAMER: Thank you. As you get to the next board that's shown here, we go from the B alternatives to the C alternatives. And as you can see here, there's many potentials in this one area. Both potentials that we looked at are running the existing streets such as 12th or 10th; running down the existing corridors and doing widenings to those; running the back lot line, which is shown in the red between 10th and 12th, which is the alignment C- 2 and C-2A. And then running on the north side of the canal, which is shown by the C-4 alternative and then the south side of the canal, which shown on the C-5 alternative. Starting from the top right off the bat, the C-l and the C-3 alternatives were rejected pretty early in the process, due to a couple of factors: One being safety and access management and having to have every single one of those corridors with residential access to a six-lane facility. And then the other thing was when the facility was finally built, the location of the existing homes that are out there, in most cases were built closer to the front of the property lines, and so the impacts would be substantial to them. The roadway would be pretty much right on top of their front doors with no potential way to mitigate any of these impacts, either from a noise or from a visual standpoint for the homeowners. So in talking to staff and actually input from the public, those alternatives were rejected. The fact that there's existing 22 feet of pavement out there is not a benefit to any of the corridors because, due to the fact we're going to be potentially building an urban six -lane section, all the that existing pavement would be thrown away and be lost in the future. So those alternatives were thrown out. Page 44 April 17, 2006 The C-2 alternative you see here, which also at this point reflects the preferred alternative, runs the back lot line between 10th and 12th Avenue. While it has the most impacts to the number of parcels, it has the least amount of residential displacements in this section of the corridor, with the C alternative having two residential displacements, the C-2 alternative, along the entire approximately two miles of this segment. As you can see here also, we refined the alternatives and came up with the C-2A alignment which runs through the future parks and recreation property. And we've worked with the parks and rec department to determine where a preferred alternative would go in that one area. Also in this area, the future connections to the school sites and to the park sites and to a potential north-south corridor that would run from Vanderbilt Beach Road up to Immokalee Road, which is shown just a little bit -- was shown on the other board a little bit to the left of the left side of your screen, needed to be taken into consideration from an access management standpoint and what would be best for traffic flow. As you move down this corridor, the C-2 alternative is the preferred alternative in terms of traffic flow, because it will allow the most volume of traffic to be moved with the least number of impacts and the least amount of intersections to be joined into. The negative with the C-2 alternative, however, is it doesn't connect up to a lot of the streets, which we would like to do because it's on the north side of the canal. And so all the streets on the south side of the canal would not be connected to this roadway. Some of the considerations that were given besides the Wilson Boulevard connection is connections to potentially 8th and 16th in this area; they make the most logical sense as you go down the corridor. And then on the west side of this picture, right before you go up into the schools connections, either 15th, 13th and 11th, potentially Page 45 April 17, 2006 across the canal to help facilitate the movement of traffic in a north-south direction, as well as to the schools and to the park. The C-4 alignment ranked pretty high on the alternatives list due to the limited number of residential impacts. Again, it runs the back lot lines for the homes that are located on 1 Oth Avenue. It has essentially the same impacts to the number of parcels due to the fact that they run perpendicular to the corridor. Had approximately three residential displacements on the north side, so it ranked pretty highly. The C-5 alternative, which is the one that runs south of the canal, scored high in a lot of the categories; however, it scored low in the categories a lot of the public was concerned about, where they'd like the circulation and the ability for traffic flow but they don't prefer to have every one of the streets connected up. So they would be connected on both the north side of their streets to Vanderbilt extension and the south side of their streets to Golden Gate Boulevard. In terms of wetlands impacts, the C-2 alternative had the most wetland impacts in this area. But again, it ranked the highest because it had the least amount of residential displacements. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Are we at a good spot that we can take a 10-minute break, sir? MR. GRAMER: This would probably be good, because you're at Wilson Boulevard, which is primarily the first phase of this project that's being considered. CHAIRMAN HALAS: We have pretty much covered up to Wilson Boulevard at this point in time? MR. GRAMER: That's correct. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Let's take a 10-minute break and we'll try to be back here at 6:39. Thank you very much for your patience. (A brief recess was taken.) MR. MUDD: Ladies and gentlemen, if you'd please take your seats. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Ladies and gentlemen, we are now back Page 46 April 17, 2006 in session. If I could have everyone please take their seats so we can get started and move on. Thank you very much. Please proceed, sir. MR. GRAMER: Thank you. Before we move forward at this point, I'd like to introduce Bill Reeve from Coastal Engineering. He's the one that performed the right-of-way analysis on this corridor, as well as he'd like to just discuss the impacts to the golf courses for one second. Just to clarify something. MR. REEVE: Thank you, Bill. As he said, my name is Bill Reeve, I'm the Director for the Real Estate Division for Coastal Engineering. And for some of you that are here that are not familiar with the eminent domain process, this state is rather unique. It's one of only seven states that works this way. The eminent domain process, in the acquisition of private property or business land or anything else, you have the right to fight them in court with your attorneys, your individuals, your expert witnesses, everyone that deals with it on your side of the fence. In the case of the golf course, it's not just a matter of taking and moving a hole on a golf course. I can tell you that if the other side -- if the property owners' eminent domain attorneys were sitting in here, it would be a different process than what we just went through. In taking a hole away from a golf course, there are two, maybe three now case laws, that I won't drag you through. But if you have damages to that golf course, you can't go back on that parent tract, the parent tract being the entire 600 acres, 700 acres and effect a cure to fix that golf course, because you've essentially doubled the damages on the site. It's not quite as simple, whether it be your house or whether it be golf course, it's not quite as simple as it may appear to move one of the holes. Page 47 April 17, 2006 And I think from an eminent domain perspective, if you look at it, the property corridors that your commissioners are going to vote on and the corridors that are recommended by staff -- in my particular scope, I was not to mention at all which corridor I thought would be the most effective corridor from a financial standpoint. It's a moving target in the eminent domain side until the corridor is selected and in turn the appraisal firm, whoever that may be, is selected to do the appraisals, where they come out to your property and every blade of grass, every sprinkler head, every square foot of house, everything that is touched or affected by the eminent domain action you're paid for. You don't agree with the numbers, you go to court. There are going to be some issues here where the road, depending upon the corridor that's chosen, it actually doesn't touch any land, it's a flyover. From an appraisal standpoint it usually ends up being what we call uneconomic remainder. You can't get to it, you can't build on it, so for all intents and purposes, it's a total take. When Bill Gramer speaks of perpendiculars and parallels, he's talking about the way the property is in juxtaposition to the corridor alignment. And most of you realize that the properties that are on the south side of the canal are parallel. So if you're going to take 200 feet off the south of the canal, you're going to take most of that property. If you have any remainders left, they may be too small to build houses on. But the numbers that are mentioned here are going to be very, very specific as we move through the process -- well, not me, as the appraisers move through the process and come out on whatever corridor it happens to be, if the commissioners decide to go forward with VBR extension. It's not quite as easy as it looks. The damages are staggering. The 49 million was a minor, minor dollar. I would imagine it's going to be a lot more than that when you start touching the golf course. I guess there's going to be times for questions later on. Page 48 April 17, 2006 CHAIRMAN HALAS: Yes, there is. MR. REEVE: If you need me to respond, I'll be more than happy. Thank you for your time. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you very much. I appreciate your clarification of that particular issue. If we can continue on and wrap this up so we can -- I think we have a number of speakers and I want to get through the list here. MR. GRAMER: So we're pretty much, starting from Wilson Boulevard heading to the east, you're running on the D alternatives. D-1 and D-3 has been rejected. D-2, again, runs the back corridor line between 10th and 12th. Like I mentioned before, once you do start out on an alternative roadway, you pretty stick to that alternative roadway from the beginning of the project to the end. D-2 has the most impacts in terms of wetlands and potential parcel impacts; however, the least amount of displacements. Whereas if you look at the D-4 alternative that's located on the south side of these Estates parcels but north of the canal, the parcels still here run perpendicular to the corridor. The impacts in here range from anywhere between 180 to 200 feet, which is what the swath is here. Least amount of wetland impacts; however, there are issues. If you did want to connect up to roads to the south, you would have to connect up -- put bridges at all these corridors at a cost of about 750,000 to a million dollars apiece. D-5 alternative, which runs the south side of the corridor, is the least impacts to parcels and to wetlands. However, it's the most impacts to the residential properties and has the most displacements, which is one of the reasons why it scored so low in those categories. As you move further east, we get into the E alternatives, which you get a couple more alternatives on the south side of the canal, just due to the fact that the canal actually stops. However, there's no benefits from the E-6 or E- 7 corridors, and so we're pretty much Page 49 April 17, 2006 sticking with the two, four and five alternatives, which is the E-2 __ sorry, the E-5 -- the E-2, the E-4 and the E-5 alternatives. Same impacts as there was before, same issues with connectivity and traffic flow. E-2 providing the best traffic flow, however, the least amount of connectivity. And then the E-4 and E-5 alternatives in this area are located without a canal in between them so they could have minimal right-of-way impacts. However, the connectivity to the roadway isn't the same west of the Golden Gate canal due to the fact that in this area the parcels start to run perpendicular as opposed to parallel to the corridor. That's pretty much the displays that we're going to talk about. And I'll just walk you through the end of the process and what we did with these alternatives. When we were done with all the field evaluation, we loaded these alternatives into the matrix again, based on corridors as you see shown from one to 15. Immediately, the corridors that you see that are shown in red were rej ected corridors due to access management issues, safety, and due to impacts to parcels and people's homes and potential displacements. The remaining corridors that you see are alternatives three, six, seven, 12 and 15. As you can see here, these alternatives were loaded back into the original matrix where we went out and we field verified in March what the impacts would be so we could present accurate numbers and most up-to-date numbers to the Commission. Now, those five corridors were ranked based on impacts; one being the least amount of impacts, it was given a rating of one; five being the most amount of impacts for these corridors. And in each of the different categories, the business, residential, other land use, right-of-way, natural environmental impacts, and both traffic Page 50 April 17, 2006 circulation from a traffic flow standpoint as well as from a connectivity standpoint, were evaluated, as well as the project cost, on a scale of one to five. These numbers were then put in a weighting matrix where each of those corridor criteria that I discussed before was assigned a certain percentage of weighting, from zero to could be potentially 100 percent. Now, these weightings were shown in the original public meeting to the public at a different scale and at a -- basically a starting point. After the first public meeting these numbers and the weighting criteria associated with this were adjusted, based on what the public considered important. Number one being residential impacts and displacements, which, between the residential partial impacts and the number of displacements was given a total weighting of approximately 35 percent of the entire study. The project costs came in second, with approximately 25 percent of the study. And then business damages and traffic flow came in third, with 10 percent of the study, with the remaining elements at about five percent. Once you loaded in the ranking from the previous slide into this weighting criteria and multiplied it out, you came up with a total number at the bottom. The lower the number, the better the score of the corridor. As you can see here, the alternative 12, which is the A, BC, C-2, D-2, E-2 alignment came in as the number one ranking of the corridors based on this criteria and based on the amount of impacts, with alternatives number seven and 15 coming in two and three, and then alternatives number three and six coming in four and five in the overall evaluation. Pretty much concludes the evaluation process and how we evaluated the entire corridors. And at this time, open it up for questions. Page 51 April 17, 2006 CHAIRMAN HALAS: Yes, I'm going to ask if there's any questions by the commissioners. Commissioner Henning? COMMISSIONER HENNING: The 200-foot right-of-way, does that take care of all the needs of the road right-of-ways? MR. GRAMER: Yes, it would. It's the worst case scenario in terms of what would be needed for the roadway corridor as well as the slopes. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Stormwater? MR. GRAMER: Stormwater. And some of the areas where there are some right-of-way -- potential right-of-way acquisitions or home displacements, we'd be looking at areas, you know, that the remaining parcels could be used for water and stormwater retention and detention. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay, so it's -- it could be more than a 200-foot right-of-way need for this project? MR. GRAMER: The typical section of the corridor would be 200 feet. And then every once in a while there would be required a pond parcel, which may extend that right-of-way need out. Approximately, you know, one per every mile and a half. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Did you take a look at -- as far as the impacts of these different residential lots, knowing that you're going to have to have pond sites, did you take a look at just impacting less parcels as possible? You see what I'm asking? Or you know what I'm asking? The question is, we all know that you need stormwater storage in the roadways required by law. MR. GRAMER: Correct. COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's going to be more than the 200-foot right-of-way, correct? MR. GRAMER: That's correct. COMMISSIONER HENNING: So couldn't you do something Page 52 April 17, 2006 like a linear ditch or the parcels that you're going to be impacting, put a pond site in strategic locations so you have less of an impact on individual parcels? MR. GRAMER: Yeah, that was considered during the process and in terms of, you know, depending on what alternative gets selected, whether north or south of the canal and depending on what typical section gets selected, if anything, you know, two lanes, four lanes, six lanes, will lead us to -- the resulting end will be we'll know how much right-of-way is left over for things like lineal ponds. If it's not -- you know, as Bill mentioned before, you get the residual parcels when you have an impact to a home, that maybe take the home where there's a lot -- you know, there's many more acres available. Some people have one house on a five-acre parcel, and when you take the home, you could take the entire five-acre parcel and use some of it for the roadway corridor and some of it will be remaining that you can use for a pond site. So those have worked into the numbers and also into the project cost where we added money in there for potential pond sites. We show the worst case scenario, so it should get better from this, not any worse. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I know your particular field is studying alignments, but it's not designing roads. When you consulted your -- the cubicle next door, the guy that designs the roads, was the question ever asked, let's see what we can do about impacting less? I would just hate to see -- come back when this road is designed and say well, we're going to have to acquire more land for stormwater storage. MR. GRAMER: Actually, one of the hats that I wear at CH2M Hill, I'm a roadway project manager. And for Collier County, I've designed about 45 miles of road from start to finish, as well as __ COMMISSIONER HENNING: I apologize. So you did take Page 53 April 17, 2006 that into consideration. MR. GRAMER: We did take that into consideration. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you very much. MR. GRAMER: Joe's the alignment guy. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, thank you. CHAIRMAN HALAS: If there's any other questions from our commissioners? If not, we'll start the public hearing process. How many people do we have signed up to be speakers? MR. PETTIT: I believe 61. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. Obviously we don't want to stay here all night. So I ask that as we go through the process, if the particular item has been covered, if you would just waive, and so because there's probably one of your neighbors that has some other information that they would like to bring forward, and we need as much information, new information as possible so that we can come up with a decision here tonight. So at that, if we could start with the -- COMMISSIONER HENNING: Commissioner, may I say something before we start? CHAIRMAN HALAS: Sure. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Folks, the Board of Commissioners of Collier County charged our staff and the consultants to look at this alignment. So the anger that you feel should be on the elected officials and not our staff. They've did what we asked them to do. And I can tell you, when the public speaks, I would either like some direction, some alternatives, but what I don't like, and you lose me, when you attack our staff. If you want to attack the numbers, if you want to attack the alignment or if you want to attack the Board of Commissioners, I think that's fair play. Just not Commissioner Fiala, please. So again, I think our staff has did exactly what we told them to Page 54 April 17, 2006 do, and if you don't like it, you know where the blame should go. Thank you. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you. If you would call the first name and then the second person, if that person would be ready to take over when the first speaker finishes. Each speaker will have three minutes. So at that, we'll start off with the first speaker, followed by making sure the second person that's going to speak is in line. MR. PETTIT: Mr. Chairman, the first speaker is Bob Shafto, and he will be followed by Maurice Kelley. MR. SHAFTO: Mr. Chairman, my name is Bob Shafto. I'm a resident of Quail Creek and I'm speaking on behalf of Quail Creek property owners. The Metropolitan Planning Organization has some information on the Internet that provides some perspective. This graph was helpful. It shows with the red 100 dwellings and with the green ^ 100 employers. And you can see the growth along the western side of the county . And the work that the county's done in providing -- extending Livingston and widening Goodlette, the north-south work that you've done has been very helpful. Those roads are working quite well now. If you look to the east of 1-75, the north-south roads, I understand you're going to widen 951 and extend Logan. I'm a little disappointed you're not going to extend it to four lanes instead of two, but I understand that's underway. But Metropolitan Planning Organization shows an awful lot of growth to the northeast. This is another copy of the Internet Metropolitan Planning Organization showing the growth of single- family dwellings to the northeast, and this is the growth of multi-family dwellings. Now, as you know, in the 2005 build-out study says the majority of the population, once Collier County is completely built out, 55 Page 55 ^----,..,-"'~.. "'^"_c_"~'~ April 17, 2006 percent of it is going to be east of 951, putting a lot of pressure on the only four roads that go east and west. This east county area has a lot of growth, as we all know, but the most pressure is going to be on Immokalee and on Vanderbilt. Immokalee Road -- this is a picture I've taken recently, right outside of our community -- is going to be expanded to six lanes and is under development right now. But unfortunately, 1-75 exchange, all the retail outlet, the growth to the northeast with Ave Maria and all the other developments is going to continue to put pressure on that road. Vanderbilt Beach is going to be extended and widened to six lanes. I took this picture just literally a few days ago, about 8 :00 in the mornIng. Now, we can't eliminate all the congestion just by adding lanes to our highways. That's helpful but not the total solution. We've got to provide options and balance the traffic. And that's where this extension I think comes in. The east-west traffic can bypass by using this extension, Immokalee, and thus bypass 1-75 and bypass all the outlets that __ retail outlets. And it will help reduce, and in many cases substantially reduce, the traffic on Immokalee and I - 7 5. We think it seems like on the surface it should also help Golden Gate, Pine Ridge and 951. Thank you for your attention. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you, sir. Next speaker, please? MR. PETTIT: The next speaker will be Maurice Kelley, and he will be followed by Danny Mullaly. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Danny, if you'd get in line so we can-- thank you. MR. KELLEY: I'm Maurice Kelley and I'm a resident of Golden Gate Estates. Golden Gate Estates was conceived as a rural environment that Page 56 April 17, 2006 would allow those who desire to live closer to nature than Naples proper. If this road is implemented, it will destroy this lifestyle choice for the northern portion of Golden Gate Estates. It's a giant step towards the Miami-zation of the west coast of Florida. This is the wrong road at the wrong location at the wrong cost. $20 million a mile? The primary beneficiaries of this road will be those landowners who would develop their land east of DeSoto Boulevard. There are other road solutions that could be developed with much less human suffering, much less cost and with much greater utility to Golden Gate Estates residents. I would also like to add that the road traffic studies that we've been requesting for six months were denied us until this meeting. It's the first time we have seen those, it's the first time we have seen the computer simulations of all the alternates. And I think just from the brief glimpse that we got of them that there are other alternates that should be exposed to the computer simulations. We must also face the probability that this road will be vigorously litigated. The financial and political repercussions will become of great interest beyond the borders of Collier County. Thank you for your time and your attention. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you, sir. Next speaker, please? MR. MULLALY: My name is Danny Mullaly and I'm a Golden Gate Estates resident and I'm also the General Manager at Golf Club of the Everglades. I've been there since 2000, since we opened, and currently we have 51 employees at Golf Club of the Everglades, counting myself. Of the 51, 50 of them are Collier County residents. We also have 12 to 15 caddies that are employed there, make their living there during season. If the road is built and the alignment goes north of the canal, I'm Page 57 April 17, 2006 going to have the distinct pleasure of going to work tomorrow and telling 50 other employees that they no longer have a job. And even worse than that, they're going to have to go home and tell their families, their wives and husbands and children that they no longer have a job. So we hope that you take that into consideration in deciding the route of this road. I myself, I like the no-build option, but -- (Audience applause.) MR. MULLALY: Also, I want to vote against the northern route, going north of the canal. Thank you for your time. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you, sir. MR. PETTIT: Your next speaker will be Don Stone, and he will be followed by Raymond Colvet. MR. STONE: Good evening. My name is Don Stone. I am the most recent -- one of the recent past presidents of Quail Creek Property Owners Association. I'm also representing tonight the Quail Creek Village Property Owners Association. And its president Bob Myers is here. If you'd raise your hand, Bob. We support the county's recommendation to extend Vanderbilt Beach Road. I'd like to thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the opportunity to comment to you and the other commissioners. And just as a way of reference for the others here who do not know, our two communities are just east of the 75 overpass on Immokalee Road. We are well aware of traffic problems and have been for a number of years. It appears to us that the county Department of Transportation has come up with a realistic plan to provide a traffic grid for the east-west roads that is direly needed. Obviously Mr. Shafto has pointed out, as has the Department of Transportation people, the growth of the county is going to be east of 75 to a large extent. We need those east-west corridors to complete the traffic grid throughout the county to complement all the traffic Page 58 April 17, 2006 needs of all the county residents. We feel that this extension of Vanderbilt Beach Road is a necessity. Thank you for your time and would respectfully ask that you give your transportation department reasonable favorable consideration to their request. Thank you. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you, sir. MR. PETTIT: Raymond Colvet, followed by Lauren Melo. MR. COL VET: Good evening. I appreciate you letting me speak in front of your commission like this. I'm a native Floridian and a Native American. I moved to your county because I suffered from acute anxiety. That's why I decided to live out in the Estates area, to alleviate -- to be out of congested areas, such as downtown Naples and stuff. It took me a long time to find a home out there. My personal opinion on the road that's coming in there, you're talking about bringing urbanization through a rural community, and it will be coming a hundred foot off the back of my house, which will take into consideration my family and my well-being because of my heal th issues. I feel that something like this, that you as elected officials should take the community into perspective instead of the roads that you guys are projecting to come through right behind people's homes. There's other alternatives that alleviate this problem that you have out there in the Estates. You're bringing roads that are going to -- coming to 951 that are just going to bottleneck in there anyway. The majority of the people that live in the Estates are trying to reach 1-75 to get out of the county to work. If you took the money and diverted it to try to open up 1-75 and focus those kind of issues, you would have a less congestion out there, because the majority of people are trying to hit there. If you go down Immokalee Road, most of the -- I know I'm not no road engineer, but Page 59 April 17, 2006 I'm a person that lives out here and sees what goes on every day. And what I suggest is a no-build. And you need to vote with your hearts and for the people that have voted you guys into your positions. And that's who you need to consider. Not the golf course people that don't live here six months out of the year, people that are just come play golf and stuff. And the wells, those wells were built after they had this designed and in their plans and knowing that this was going to come on . But you need to vote with your hearts and not with the pocketbooks. Thank you. (Audience applause.) MR. PETTIT: The next speaker is Lauren Melo, and she will be followed by Lori Hilliard. MS. MELO: Good evening, Commissioners, county staff and residents. My name is Lauren Melo and I serve on the board for the Southwest Florida Truckers Association. Many of our members are residents of Golden Gate Estates and have voiced their concerns over the cost and actual necessity of the Vanderbilt Beach Road extension. Our members are vehemently opposed to eminent domain. We are asking our commissioners to vote a no-build option for Vanderbilt Beach Road and reprioritize the road projects, such as Wilson Boulevard south to Landfill Road and the widening of Golden Gate Boulevard to DeSoto Boulevard, to the top of the project list. These two projects will immediately relieve some of the traffic flow in the Golden Gate Estates area. We further ask that the permits for the two suggested quarry operations in the Belle Meade area be fast-tracked for approval. Allowing our road builders to utilize local mining sources will benefit all of our taxpaying citizens by reducing the cost of material hauling and will keep the fuel taxes in our county. It is no secret that building materials such as fill and hard rock Page 60 April 17, 2006 are being imported from Lee as far as Charlotte County. Reducing the cost of the building materials will also reduce the total price for future transportation infrastructure. Let us concentrate on improving our existing roadways and permitting local material resources. We may find a six-lane footprint for Vanderbilt Beach Road and taking of 19 homes is not a necessity or a true benefit to the residents of Golden Gate Estates. Thank you. (Audience applause.) MR. PETTIT: Lori Hilliard, and she will be followed by Cat Chiaradonna. MS. HILLIARD: Commissioners, my name is Lori Hilliard and I live on 1 Oth Avenue Northeast. I bought my lot 22 months ago and moved into my home September of last year. I have been a resident of Naples since March of 1979. There was no disclosure made to me concerning plans for Vanderbilt Beach extension, which the Collier County Transportation Department is telling us has been in the works for the past five years. I am currently seeking attorney's advice on what I should do. I stand here before you believing in your wisdom that you will not let someone talk you into wasting 150 to $200 million on a road that no one wants built through their neighborhood, especially since none of the right-of-ways that are currently available have been used to their potential. I believe you are attempting to do the right thing. However, I strongly believe that an additional multi-laned road approximately two miles south and one mile north of existing multi-laned roads is not the answer. Turning dead end streets and peaceful neighborhoods into grid-style street network is not what we're looking for. Other communities within the county have asked and received from you the ability to have limited access. We currently have some limited access and we're only asking you to grant us the same consideration. Page 61 April 17, 2006 This September my daughter and my son-in-law are going to give me my first grandchild. I have a big, beautiful, quiet safe backyard for us to enjoy with him that I hope, believe him and us can have many happy memories. The current plan of this road will take that away from us and many families as well. Thank you. (Audience applause.) MS. CHIARADONNA: Hello, Commissioners, Collier County residents. My name is Catherine Chiaradonna. I currently live on 12th Avenue Northeast, which is on the east side of Everglades Boulevard. My husband and I purchased our home six years ago on a five-acre lot and we -- my husband checked into being a -- he checked into whether any road expansions would be coming through or whether our property would be in jeopardy at that time prior to pulling any permits. He was verbally assured by county officials that there were no plans at that time. Our home, pool and spa, shed are situated far back on the land for the sole purpose in mind as to be as far away as possible from the traffic and the road and to take pleasure in the natural environment. This proposed route brings a thoroughway (sic) within 80 feet of our house, destroys our privacy and frightens off our precious deer and other wild animals, including Florida panthers. Mr. Quinty and Mr. Feder informed us that they won't even know if they're actually taking our home for an estimated year and a half, until 60 percent of this design is complete. This is outrageous to be stuck in limbo for this long. I lost my place. Okay. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Take your time. MS. CHIARADONNA: The scenario on our home is tearing away from our hearts the very privacy and beauty we struggled financially to gain. No dollar amount is going to take away our dreams and the reason we went out there. Our property houses a serene habitat for a myriad of wildlife including deer, Florida panther, which now the Florida panther is an Page 62 April 17, 2006 endangered species. I would like to challenge the transportation board with the facts that abolishing this wooded land on our property further diminishes this habitat. Not constructing the extension on a preexisting road is nothing short of thoughtless and reckless. It's not just how many homes you are destroying, but it's about how many people's lives you are annihilating by removing the only value this land truly possesses, its privacy, its natural habitat and its wildlife. We have personally preserved and protected three quarters of our five acres by refraining to build, and we have spared the natural vegetation necessary to sustain this neighboring wildlife. This proj ect needs to be reevaluated. It lacks ingenuity, impartiality, and it blatantly neglects to safeguard our endangered animals. As for our two and a quarter lot which holds its value because it's buildable, it no longer becomes buildable. That is our retirement. This transportation board said to us that they will check into it. Investigations with this route are incomplete and utterly irresponsible towards innocent residents. The Vanderbilt extension project is only appropriate being expanded on already existing roads such as Golden Gate Boulevard, Immokalee Road, Wilson Road, Everglades Road or Oil Well Road or DeSoto Boulevard. Prior to unnecessarily demolishing the back properties of homeowners, the houses and peaceful countryside, finish constructing the roads that have already been started before you move forward with this project which promotes the deplorable indifference towards the lives it will ruin. I have not even addressed the monetary losses or the runoff from the roads and where that will go. Thank you. I truly hope that God is in your hearts and you Page 63 April 17, 2006 remember that this land is grounded in freedom and the declaration that all people are created equal. And we hope that you remember that impartiality when you cast your votes. Thank you. (Audience applause.) MR. PETTIT: Mr. Chairman, the next speaker is Terry Ogden, and he will be followed by Rita Caskey. Terry Ogden? MR. OGDEN: I waive. CHAIRMAN HALAS: He waived. MR. PETTIT: Rita Caskey will be your next speaker, followed by George Gruszewski. MS. CASKEY: Good evening, Commissioners. My name is Rita Caskey, and I've lived in Naples for 36 years and I've worked as an interior designer. My livelihood actually benefits by growth, but growth like this I feel is entirely wrong. Late last summer I was reading the newspaper and I saw an article about a proposed project of at least 1,600 homes to be built off Immokalee Road. It explained the land was on the south side across from Twin Eagles. As I looked at the plan, I saw how far south it reached, and it looked like it was coming right to my backyard. So I called the contact person and I found out that I was almost right, it was just about at my backyard. And this was really big. But the lady at the office that day, she also told me there's a lot of things going on in that area, she said. So I called the transportation department and I spoke with Joe Quinty. I asked him if I could see the plans and the things they were working on. I feared that this new development would want a southern entrance into their project from my street, which is 13th. Well, Mr. Quinty told me the plan and everything was being so big he couldn't even e-mail it to me, but I was welcome to come to his office. Page 64 April 17, 2006 When I saw the plan, I was in shock. I couldn't believe -- who designed this? I couldn't believe my eyes. I drove up and down every single street where the canal-front homes were. I jotted down all the addresses on the mailboxes of all the homes on the canal. I came home and I began to search on the Collier appraiser data base. That was late in the summer. We still didn't know anything. We decided to host an informal meeting at our house with all the canal-front homeowners. We printed fliers and we put them in all the mailboxes. Every one of the canal-front homeowners from Collier to Wilson came. It was news to everyone. Everyone was livid. No one could believe that this was happening. We hadn't even received formal notice. By September the transportation department did host the first meeting at Oak Ridge. Since that time we've gathered with so many people from 10th and 12th and as far south as Belle Meade. We've joined the civic association and we've formed a concerned citizens road group. We've attended every workshop, every presentation. We've had private meetings, public meetings, and a group of over 50 of us who e-mail each other regularly. We have not heard anyone say that they have asked for this road or even want this road. I used to live in Lakewood, off of Davis Boulevard. When Livingston was being planned, I wished that it would head south all the way to Davis so I could have another route and head north. But could I ask Foxfire if I could destroy their neighborhood? No. I know my time's up, but anyway, then -- we just want to know why would anyone dream of this idea? Why would they think that they could bulldoze right through our neighborhood when we haven't been able to bulldoze through all these other neighborhoods for roads? (Audience applause.) MR. PETTIT: George Gruszewski, to be followed by Sarah Calabrese. MS. CALABRESE: I waive my time. Page 65 April 17, 2006 CHAIRMAN HALAS: You waive your time, ma'am? Thank you very much. MR. PETTIT: After Ms. Calabrese then would be Andre LeCrone. MR. GRUSZEWSKI: Good evening, Commissioners. My name is George Gruszewski and I retired to the Estates in 1994. A few years ago Collier County purchased 200-plus acres across the canal from my home. They knew the property they have purchased was landlocked. They should have made provisions for a right-of-way on the north side of the canal to access schools and parks. All they needed was two lanes to get to their property; however, they're using 13th Street for all their activities. I live on 13th Street and on the canal. And on every given day except Sunday, there are hordes of dump trucks, service vehicles across the canal. My whole property and house has a thin coat of white dust. Same goes for my neighbors along the canal. It stinks. And I really feel sorry for the people on 10th and 12th and all my neighbors. No matter which way the road goes, hundreds of us are going to be hurt. I hope that you understand. And I feel that it is unjust for so many people that own property. Our problem is from 951 heading west. Ask anybody. There is nothing more sacred than a person's home. The fact that someone can work hard to purchase a home or land of their dreams and then know that no matter what, the government could take it away at any given time is very threatening and un-American. If you read the 90-page MPO plan, you will find that consideration for the upcoming community of Ave Maria must be planned. There is a platted 22,000 homes around the university, and the Colliers have 55,000 homes at Big Cypress Basin coming. I know that they say they're self-contained, but don't you think that everyone wants to go to the beach, go out on fine dinings and go down to the Page 66 April 17, 2006 fancy shops downtown? This road is fueled by developers and special interest groups. Thank you. (Audience applause.) MR. PETTIT: Your next speaker is Andre LeCrone. Is Mr. LeCrone here? And followed by Patrick Leon. MR. LeCRONE: Good evening. There's been a lot of things from the different consultants, specifically the gentleman from Coastal Engineering talked about golf course reconstruction. I've done about 15 golf courses in Lee and Collier County, constructed them, been involved in them and been a builder's representative on them. About ninety days, one hole may be $350,000. This board shows the current 2025 plan, the original 2025 plan, same as out in the lobby there. These are the current traffic problems dashed on there. One is just east of Wilson. The other one kind of divides Wilson a little bit west, a little bit east. The major portion of these problems, current problems, bottlenecking on Golden Gate Boulevard, traffic signals being located too close together and not timed properly. Having talked to staff they said yeah, we're going to address this problem. This problem has existed for five years now. I used to live in Orangetree. I moved to 12th Avenue Northwest six months ago. My own fault, personally, that I moved to a place where there could possibly be a roadway. But having also done transportation projects in this county also for the Board of County Commissioners, I never dreamt that it would veer off that far off a section line. Staff is saying a majority of the funding is from impact fees for this roadway. You know the Big Cypress stewardship district has an interlocal agreement with the county. And one that I think Governor Jeb Bush knows about, too, that states that they won't have to pay impact fees to the county. All their -- most of their impact fees will be Page 67 April 17, 2006 contained inside that stewardship district. So if they're going to pay for some of this road, don't count on it. If you look at the county transportation website, you will see the grading criteria that was chosen for this alignment. Now take a look at the alignment. If you grade it out, it doesn't match up. This alignment was presented a while back -- the grading criteria, excuse me, was presented a while back, and it listed the percentages that they looked at. If you look at the current alignment, it doesn't even match what is on the website. So if you have interchangeable criteria, you can make the road go anywhere you want to. DOT follows a certain grading criteria, no matter what, and it is under the Federal Highway Administration, same one they use. We don't use that, we have our own set of rules, I guess. Has the staff looked at the current long-range housing situation? Do they know the current long-range real estate market? No. They're going by a university study that has been modified three times in the past year alone. You're going to buy all of this property for something that is going to be aborted when they figure out the market didn't hold from the previous four-year boom, and eminent domain displaced and impacted numerous Estates residents. Before you vote, make sure the facts are right, number one, and remember that these are current county taxpayers and voters. (Audience applause.) MR. PETTIT: Mr. Leon will be followed by Dorothy Wagner. MR. LEON: I have a lot to say, but I won't be able to get it all in, so I'm just going to start in the middle. I'm retired with a meager fixed income. I have health problems that necessitate a warm climate. My first home was in Willoughby Acres, and that area started to grow, Immokalee was four-Ianed, I-75 was brought through. And that's all well and good, but it got a little Page 68 April 17, 2006 more congested. I purchased where I did for the peace and quiet and the out-of-the-way location. I purchased the adjoining lot to preserve my privacy, later to be used for one of my children's homes. There I have seen all kinds of wildlife, from bears to rabbits and owls. Rattlesnakes, too. My property is almost paid for. I'm so close to that objective in my life that it is my place of solace where I can sit and relax and entertain the grandkids in a safe environment. This is not only some property, it is my life. A road of this magnitude across the back section of the two properties would completely destroy my planned way of life. It would cause security concerns, noise issues, water retention, et cetera. My son wouldn't have a place to build his home, unless he wants to put it between two major highways. My daughter has already left the area with two of my grandchildren, so this project has already affected me. I would not be able to relocate in the same general area due to the cost factor of housing, which would necessitate me to have another mortgage, higher taxes, et cetera. I have been a resident here since the Seventies. Are you asking me to leave Collier County? And what can we do in this circumstance? What are any of us to do? I respectfully implore the Commission to vote a no-build on this project and to request that the transportation department immediately act on upgrading the existing infrastructure of the Estates roadways, especially the north-south routes, which I understand they were supposed to present at this meeting on the Wilson Boulevard project but somehow Vanderbilt got fast-tracked and took its place. For the safety and concern of existing residents in Golden Gate Estates, I again implore you to vote a no-build on this project and to direct the transportation department to work on the north-south corridors. Thank you. Page 69 April 17, 2006 (Audience applause.) MR. PETTIT: Your next speaker is Dorothy Wagner, and Ms. Wagner will be followed by Maria Giovine. MS. WAGNER: Good evening, Commissioners. I too am a -- I'm a relatively new resident of Golden Gate Estates, although it took me a year and a half looking in the Estates to find a piece of property. I'm currently employed off of Airport Road and in fact lived right across the street. I'm close to retirement age. Don't golf, don't play tennis and don't boat and purchased this property specifically as my retirement proj ect. At the time I built, naturally housing prices were high. I picked something that was -- something that I could work on. I've put about $100,000 into the property, and am in total shock to find out that I'm going to lose 100 feet off the back, after putting in all this time and effort. I've dealt with Hurricane Wilma, spent a lot of time cleaning up, shed a lot of tears, and this is just making me physically ill. I knew that I was going to have to leave the house every morning at 6:30 to make it to my job on time. I didn't mind that because the peace and quiet of the whole thing was worth it all. I have pictures with me of the bear in the area, the rattlesnakes in the area, which aren't the pleasantest things. But I too pray for the no-build of Vanderbilt Beach Road. I think this road is strictly being planned for future development. These are the people that live here. We don't want it there. I ask you again, no build. (Audience applause.) MR. PETTIT: Maria Giovine will be followed by Linda Hartman. MS. GIOVINE: Hello. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. I came tonight with a list of objections to the building of this Page 70 April 17, 2006 road, the extending of the road, with the hope that it would not be extended at all. But I left those behind because a lot of those points have been touched on already. Sitting here for the last couple of hours, I've had an impression, and I'd like to make a distinction that I don't think has been made. I don't think it has anyway tonight. I don't live in the Estates. I don't even -- I don't think I've ever been there. I'm fairly new to Collier County. My husband and I still own our home up north and we plan eventually to have more time . down here when we're both fully retired. I live in North Naples. We raised our children and worked up in another community. We contributed to that cOllllhunity, we were loyal to that community, and we are down here in our golden years. I believe that we've been talking about people tonight. We've been talking about two kinds of people. We've been talking about the people who will be using these roads, the people yet to come, people like me who are coming for their retirement, who will be part-time citizens, people who will be enjoying these roads, who will need the space for their cars. We're also talking about other people, the people that I've been sitting among, many of whom have young families, they are still working, contributing to the community, they're loyal to the community, they're raising their families here. Or other people who are maybe a little older who have been here for many more years than the people certainly that we are trying to accommodate. I urge you please, don't do this to your people. Because these are -- this is the salt of the earth here that you are harming, that you are potentially harming by either taking their homes or disrupting their community. And I don't think that it's the right thing to do, and that's my small opinion. Thank you. (Audience applause.) MR. PETTIT: Ms. Hartman will be followed by Ralph Leonard. Page 71 April 17, 2006 MS. HARTMAN: Hi, Commissioners. Linda Hartman. Tonight I'm coming to you as a homeowner and a resident of Golden Gate Estates. I've lived out in the Estates, as most of you know, and been involved deeply and caringly in my community for the last 20 years. I've worked on the master plan committee. I've worked on many committees, been president of the Estates Civic and tried to help out my community as best I can. I've been there when people have been so scared because they couldn't get out because there were no roads in the Estates that they couldn't get to their animals to protect them. They were worried about getting out for the hurricanes, worried about getting out for the fires. I've been there and I've seen that. I've -- the hurricanes. What happens to us, we're having such a hard time getting that interchange opened at Everglades, we've been fighting really hard. They told us that would never happen. Thank God our commissioners have been working towards it and it's going to. It looks like it's going to. But we have to prove that we need to take care of ourselves also. Then we come up to, guess where I live? I live on the end of 17th Street, right on where Vanderbilt Beach Road is going to go. In fact, of the eight or nine houses that are going to go, it's going to be me and it's going to be my daughters. Can I come up here and say now, let's see, because it's my house, oops, I changed my mind, I don't care about my community anymore, I don't care if they can get out for a fire. No, I can't say that. So what I'm asking you today, I don't -- I lived at the end of the canal because it was nice and tranquil. And I had the golf course on the other side that of course no one would ever take, so I didn't have to worry, they'd never build a road out by me, foolish as I was. But I see the need for the road. I see the need for not just that Page 72 April 17, 2006 road, the need for a few roads. I see the community growing so fast and how can we stop growth? We were allowed to build here. It took me a year and a half, because I owned the land, but I had to wait until I could build. How can I stop my neighbor from building on their home that they've waited so long for to get? All I ask for is I don't want to live next to a busy highway, that's not why I moved out there. I moved on the end of my road so that I could have my privacy. So I've -- in the last five years that I've known about this, I've come to the conclusion that okay, if I have to move, then I don't want to live next to the busy highway, just make it so that I can afford to live and stay in my community that I love so much, and just make something comparable for it. And make sure that I don't get killed in taxes, that I can afford to stay there, because I'm ready to retire in about eight years, too. And that's where I'm coming from on it. And I am a resident at the end, and I do care. Thank you. (Audience applause.) MR. PETTIT: Following Mr. Leonard will be Eileen Leonard. MRS. LEONARD: I waive. MR. LEONARD: My name is Ralph Leonard, and while I'm not directly affected by the road and the proposed right-of-way issues, I am a resident of the Estates. Any benefit that I might gain by the proposed road is not worth the loss of one of my neighbor's homes, let alone 19 of them. Nor is it worth the intrusion into the back yards and the loss of privacy to another 190 properties. For the most part we're not talking about retirees, we're talking about the people who make up the working class. The same people that you are desperately trying to find affordable housing for are the very people who will bear the brunt of this unneeded road. To add insult to injury, instead of following the existing path of the present road which provides easy access to the Golf Club of the Everglades or the Old Florida Golf Club, the planners have chosen to swerve the road to the south side of the canal until it passes the golf Page 73 April 17, 2006 clubs before swerving back to the original, more logical route. The homeowners on the south side of the canal could never have expected a road on their side of the canal. The golf course designers, however, should certainly have considered some expansion to the road when laying out their courses. The planners who decided on the course of the water pipelines also gave little thought to the future road expansion. N ow we're told that it will cost us 45 million more to stay on the north side of the canal. The Golf Club of the Everglades consists of 260 acres with a taxable land value of$5 million, or 19,000 an acre. They paid 800,000 for those acres. The Old Florida Golf Club has 299 acres with a taxable value of 10,000 per acre. They paid two million two- fifty for their property. The two courses combined have little less than 8,000 feet of frontage, of which at least 2,000 feet is undeveloped woodland. The Golf Club of the Everglades would lose two percent of their property, while the Old Florida Golf Club would give about four percent of their property. This compares with anywhere from 15 percent to 100 percent loss by all the impacted residents. Really, none of this should be an issue, if you ought not to proceed with the plans. Finally, the use of eminent domain for the benefit of private developers is a hot topic at both the national and state level. I believe county leaders should be aware of this so that we the taxpayers are not picking up the tab for lawsuits resulting from errors in judgment. MR. PETTIT: Mr. Chairman, your next speaker is Richard Willi -- I'm not sure how to pronounce this -- Willias, and he will be followed by Teri Clemente. MR. WILLIAMS: For the record, it's Richard Williams. I live at 29th Northwest, all the way at the very end. I've been a Collier County homeowner for 22 years. I knew what I was getting into when I moved out in the Estates. Page 74 April 17, 2006 It doesn't matter how long it takes me to get to work. I used to work as a marine mechanic in town for 13 years. I'm also a Native American. My property means a very lot to me. I own a little over five acres. I have bear, also I have horned owls and endangered screech ow Is on my property. Those are protected by the federal government and Florida state law. You cannot just come in and move them, as well as myself. If you build this road on the south side, myself, I will have -- I would lose part of my property. I would have a six-lane highway at my bedroom window. That is not what I lived so long and paid so much to live out in the Estates. I hear oh, we've done studies, environmental studies. No one has ever come to my property, ever wanted to even talk to me about my property, what I had, what I was preserving all this time for. The impact on the well pumps themselves, everybody thinks the well comes straight up through the pump house. It does not. There's a pipeline to those well pump houses. You can also move a pump house anywhere you want to and repipe it. It's not that complicated. If you would actually drive out there and look at the pump houses, look at the golf courses, I have looked at them, I have gone on the property and looked. There's only very little impacted. Two sand traps is what I see. A clubhouse. You can move those a lot better than you can displace all of our homes that we've worked so hard in this county to achieve. Thank you. (Audience applause.) MR. PETTIT: Teri Clemente. He'll be followed by Valerie Syren. MS. CLEMENTE: Hi. My home will be saved. So I'm here for these other people that aren't as lucky. Eminent domain is really drastic. Before you even think of Page 75 April 17, 2006 something like that, you have to think do you really have the support to do that? And I've been talking to a lot of people, I don't think you do. I don't think Collier County wants you to do this. So I just want to stand up for these people and say that they're not alone. And even though my home will be saved, that other people care that they're still in jeopardy. And nobody's going to believe that this isn't for anything but future development. And suppose it's wrong? Suppose that development doesn't pan out the way everyone's thinking. These people will be displaced or lose their homes for no reason. That's all. MS. SYREN: Good evening, Commissioners. I am Val. A lot of what I was going to say tonight has already been said, so I'm going to say something else. As you can all see, I'm wearing my Boycott Domino's T-shirt because of my stance against the unnecessary development of Ave Maria. But I was just informed tonight that the founder of Ave Maria and Domino's Pizza sold Domino's Pizza years ago. So now I look like an idiot because I didn't do all the research that I thought I should have done. And that's what I feel like is going on with this road extension. I don't feel like enough research was done until now . Now you're hearing their opinions. We are the people that live here. We don't want this impacting our lives, our homes or the wildlife near us. So many of us feel that since this road probably won't be for us, that it's got to be for future development. And that is not right. We know that if you did control that development, which should really be done, it wouldn't bring more money into the county, but is the county controlling the developers or the developers controlling the county? So when you make your decision tonight, I really hope that your concern is for protecting your people and not your pockets. (Audience applause.) MR. PETTIT: The next speaker, Mr. Chairman, is Jean Werner, Page 76 April 17, 2006 followed by Allan Stencil. MS. WERNER: Hi. My name's Jean Werner, and that's kind of a hard act to follow, but I'll do my best. I've lived on 11th Street Northwest for 26 years. I've raised my children there. We were out there -- we actually bought out there because it was affordable. We came here, the roads were all dirt. The reason our road was paved first is because they put the detention center on the end of the street, the juvenile detention center, which we had a lot of problems with, but the road got paved. And trust me, I would rather have had the dirt. I think -- I really can't elaborate. A lot of things have been said here tonight. I think you're really left with a very hard decision. I think if this is the first time you've seen all these numbers and all these figures, your head must be spinning. My head's spinning, and I've seen them in the last couple of months. I've written to Mr. Feder and he never really wrote me back, he butted me to Joe Quinty. And the one question I asked all along, show me the figures, show me how much it's going to cost to go south of the canal, how much it's going to cost to go north of the canal. To this date I have not received any of those figures. And I know a couple of you tonight, Mr. Henning, definitely tried to get that point across. What are we talking about? The pumps, moving the pumps? I mean, I really don't want you to build the road at all. I'm really for a no-build. I think you really have to look at this and see what really you're doing. I won't be directly affected, but my street will, because I'll live on a four-lane highway on one end and a four-lane highway on the other end. And where else in Collier County do you have two four-lane, possibly six -lane roads a mile apart? I mean, I don't think any place in the county has them that close. And you've got so many roads that aren't finished yet.o Page 77 April 17, 2006 The reason those pictures look so good for the Quail West gentleman or Quail Creek gentleman that was here is because those traffic lights on Immokalee Road have needed to be in sync forever and they're still not. I drove all the way back from North Carolina last Monday night and got here at 5 :00 in the morning, came off the Interstate at Immokalee Road and had to wait and wait and wait for a red light that there was nobody there. You know, I mean, I understand that's a real issue. And I think you really can't take these people's homes. I mean, we're the working infrastructure of Collier County. I'm a nurse, I've been at the hospital for 26 years, and I'm considering leaving Collier County if this happens. And trust me, I work in critical care, and if you get sick, you would want to see me there. (Audience applause.) MR. PETTIT: Allan Stencil will be followed by Elaine Phillips. MR. STENCIL: You've heard most of this, so I'll try to keep it brief. I'm afraid of two things: One is that you have your mind -- you may have your minds made up yet already. The other thing I'm afraid of is that you'll look at me as a not in my backyard complainer. I hope you look at me as a constituent and as a fellow human being who has legitimate worries. I tried to look at this project as if I was a Commissioner. If I was a Commissioner, I'd be responsible for more people than just affected by this road for budgets for the future. So it seems that the easy and quick answer would be put in a road at least cost, regardless of how many people get hurt, regrettable as that may be. It's kind of like the question the philosophers argue. Is it okay to destroy one person if by doing so you save 10 others? If -- the other side of the coin is look at this from the standpoint of let's not destroy lives. And as people have pointed out, it's more Page 78 April 17, 2006 than just 10 or 20 or 30 people whose homes will be bulldozed, it's maybe a couple hundred whose quality of life will be destroyed by a six -lane highway roaring through their neighborhood, in addition to those who are sandwiched between Golden Gate Boulevard and the six-lane highway. So my looking at this from the standpoint of a human side would be to ask you, please don't pave over Golden Gate Estates. Don't east coast Collier County. By the way, the answer to the philosopher -- the moral answer to the philosopher's question is that it is never okay to destroy a person's life. (Audience applause.) MS. PHILLIPS: Good evening. My name is Elaine Phillips. I've lived in Collier County since 1981. I'm a registered nurse. I've worked at Naples Community Hospital for 24 years, and I also work in the critical care area. By the way, there is a nursing shortage. My house is one of the houses that you would destroy if you allow this road to go through. I'm asking you to support a no-build policy concerning the Vanderbilt Beach extension corridor. We who have built our homes, our lives out in this area of the Estates chose to do so because we appreciate the indigenous plants and trees. We love living close to wildlife and we need space around us. Something will have gone out of us as a people if we ever let the remaining acres be destroyed. If we permit the last natural habitat to be turned into roads, if we drive the few remaining members of the wild species into zoos or to extinction, if we pollute the last clean air and dirty the last clean streams and push our paved roads through the last of the silence so that never again will Neapolitans be free in their own homes from the noise, the exhausts, the stinks of human automotive wastes. And so that never again can we have the chance to see ourselves as single, Page 79 April 17, 2006 separate, vertical and individual in the world, part of the environment of trees and rocks and soil, brother to the other animals, part of the natural world and competent to belong in it. We have been taught to identify the sacred primarily with cathedrals, churches and temples. The rest of the earth is considered real estate, a mere "it" to be used as a resource for our benefit. This effort to desacralize the world, dispel its sacred aura is what has made possible our commercial relationship to the land. It has allowed us to plunder the natural world, destroying places of more power and beauty than we will ever be able to recreate. Houses do not become homes overnight. Yards do not become gardens overnight. Fruit trees do not become fruit-bearing trees overnight. Neighbors do not become trusted friends overnight. Neighborhoods take years to develop. I implore you to ask yourselves what it is you truly value in this world. All of us who will be displaced or whose homes will be impacted will have been robbed of the place that we have created, loved, invested in on so many levels, a place where we've been able to replenish our spirits and to feel peace and joy. Please do not take this away from us all. Find another way. Thank you. (Audience applause.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Court reporter, do you need to change a tape or something? It will take just a second. A little break here, just enough to get the tape changed? Okay, thank you. MR. PETTIT: Mr. Chairman, while she's doing that, Tim Pratt is the next speaker, followed by Carol Pratt. (A brief break was taken.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: May I have your attention. We're back in session again. I really appreciate your indulgence in regards to this. And we're going to probably take another 10-minute break for our court reporter at 8: 15. So I just want to let everybody know ahead of time. Page 80 April 17, 2006 MR. PETTIT: Next speaker is Tim Pratt, and he will be followed by Carol Pratt. MR. PRATT: Good evening, Commissioners. I appreciate this opportunity to speak to you tonight. I, like a lot of other people in here, are opposed to the extension of Vanderbilt Road east of County Road 951, because it's not needed. We currently have the existing roads in place that simply needed to be widened. Road planners have said this road is for us, but I've seen traffic in the morning on Golden Gate Boulevard and the section that is four-Ianed flows smoothly. The back-up comes when you try to get on 951 or through the intersection of 951 and Pine Ridge, which is four-laned. If Vanderbilt is built as proposed, this will dump more traffic on 951 at a higher rate. And this road is currently strained to handle the flow it currently has. I've been a property owner and taxpayer since 1989, 17 years. When I bought my property, I bought at the end of a dead end road for a reason. I lived on Golden Gate Parkway and wanted to get away from the noise and traffic that that road provided, and I knew that the traffic on Golden Gate Boulevard would increase some day. When I built my home, the land across the canal from me was wooded and zoned agricultural. So I knew that some day I wouldn't be looking at a wooded lot, but never in my wildest dreams did I think that a six-lane highway would come across the canal and take my neighbor's house and leave me on the corner of a through street and a six -lane highway. My street, as it is now, my neighbors and their children can walk down the road safely due to the low traffic volume. If you allow this proposal to go through, that will all change. Golden Gate Estates is a unique place. Where in Collier County do you have a whole platted subdivision that consists of mostly one and a quarter, two and a half, and five-acre wooded home sites. As far Page 81 April 17, 2006 as I know, we could be unique -- we're unique from anywhere in the State of Florida. One of the simple pleasures my wife and I have is watching a dozen or so squirrels at the squirrel feeder in my back yard. Occasionally we'll have a black bear come through and stop at the bird feeders. If Vanderbilt is allowed to go through, not only will it be detrimental to the wildlife but it will change the whole character of the neighborhood. And not just my street but the whole of Golden Gate Estates. Finally, there's been much publicity about the lack of affordable housing for police, nurses and schoolteachers. My neighbor's a nurse at Naples Community Hospital and is directly in the path of the road. Her house will be bulldozed and she will simply have to move to another county or state where she can afford to build again. As a property owner and taxpayer for the last 1 7 years, my tax dollars would be causing the destruction of my neighbor's house and the depreciation of the house and land that I love. How ironic is that. In closing, we are counting on you to do the right thing and not build this road. Thank you. (Audience applause.) MR. PETTIT: Carol Pratt will be followed by Mark Teaters. MS. PRATT: My name is Carol Pratt. I've lived in Collier County for 39 years. I've lived in Golden Gate Estates for 17 years. The Estates is special. You can have a $2 million home right next to a $200,000 home. We don't playa lot of golf, our community isn't gated, and we work here year around. Many of us know we're fortunate to live in Golden Gate Estates, it's exactly what we were looking for, and we especially know it now when it's getting harder and harder to find a nice affordable place to live. I've gone through three hurricanes and a fire at my house, and the decision tonight terrorizes me far more than any of those events. Page 82 April 17, 2006 Some of the things that were mentioned tonight -- and thank you very much for asking good questions. You all received answers that we have been looking for four months. We've asked questions and not had the answers. Clearly, if you look at a map you can see this road ends at undeveloped property. And I'm sure those developers are anxious to develop that property. It's clearly not for the people of Golden Gate Estates. The road planners say it's for us, they're doing us a favor. Don't do us any favors, we don't need this road. As far as the golf course goes, I'm for the no-build option. But just to show how ridiculous this whole idea is, is that a golf course would take precedence over people's homes and their lives. They talk about being unemployed. Well, at least they'll have their homes. 45 million in the scheme of things is not a lot when you consider the hundreds of millions of dollars we'll spend on roads in this county. But mostly when thinking about the golf course, it's a game. It's a game. It's not people's homes. The price of Vanderbilt Beach Road extension has gone from $200 million down to $150 million, while the price of other things like the wells have gone up and moving the golf course has gone up. So they haven't been consistent in providing us money or anything else. Yes, growth is a reality, but I believe this is a knee jerk reaction to the situation. Taking property and bulldozing is the easy but not right solution. We can do better, but it requires that you have an open mind and the willingness and ability to weather the storm. Collier County needn't become like the east coast. We can improve existing roads where the footprint already exists and we can come up with innovative ideas to address roads, traffic, build-out and growth. No other place in the world is like Collier County . We would be the shining example to every other community. I and many others Page 83 April 17, 2006 would commit to making Collier County the best place to live, if given the opportunity . We're the people that keep this county going, we're the backbone of this county, and we're good people. Please do not abandon us. Please vote against the extension of Vanderbilt Beach Road. Thank you. (Audience applause.) MR. PETTIT: Mr. Teaters will be followed by Tim Nance. MR. TEATERS: She didn't take some of my time too, did she? My name is Mark Teaters. I'm the president of the Golden Gate Estates Area Civic Association. Commissioners, staff, residents and friends, this issue's been part of us since last September. It's difficult and it's emotional for everyone involved. After the first workshop in September, we got busy and we started and we had a general meeting on October 19th where we had the transportation folks in to update everybody. On February 21st we had a special forum partnered with transportation. And on March 10th we had an emergency special meeting where we were able to get face to face with folks that were going to be -- they already knew where the basic corridor they thought was going to go. They had an opportunity to get face-to-face with transportation. I've personally attended three workshops, multiple open houses, met with transportation at transportation, had meetings with the leaders of the concerned citizens for responsible roads. Altogether 17 meetings that we counted today where I've heard both sides. For the record, being proactive, I contacted the leader of the concerned citizens for responsible roads last year to offer to work with them. They said no, they were starting a political action committee, getting other streets involved, collecting money for litigation, all while planning changes in representation in government. The last meeting that I attended, what they asked me to do is to Page 84 April 17, 2006 vote to postpone this for a period of time in the future, which we didn't feel anybody would want to do. Who would want to have something like that hanging over your head? All these folks in here are very concerned about having their houses taken, would they want to wait another year to find out whether that was going to happen? So that obviously wasn't viable either. The main request that we have from the Golden Gate Estates Area Civic Association tonight is if you are going to build this road, please take the least number of homes. Please be sure people are fairly compensated. Please try to transfer the homestead exemption of Save Our Homes. Please make a decision one way or another today. As you know, this issue's been divisive to our community and our civic association. Thank you very much. (Audience applause and booing.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Please, ladies and gentlemen, let's give equal time to both sides, okay? Thank you. MR. NANCE: My name is Tim Nance. I've lived well east in the Estates area about 25 years. The proposal presented tonight is one of three projects presented in the last year suggesting extensive eminent domain through well developed areas of the Estates. This Vanderbilt extension is obviously a six -lane highway that terminates at the doorstep of the coming development in the new stewardship district and the new city of Ave Maria at the expense of Golden Gate Estates. I'm more shocked that before, during and after this proposal invoking the power of eminent domain, I have not heard a single alternative seeking to avoid eminent domain that has been studied, discussed or offered by anyone. Today the Estates is a signature community of Collier County, a tremendous success story for the working people and retirees. Custom forest residence built with sweat equity, guided by the unspoken promise of the Estates, and that is if you can stand the long drive to Page 85 April 17, 2006 and from work, the long drive to and from stores and the minimal roads, you can have your little piece of quiet paradise and a little bit of isolation. This proposal has been met with shock and outrage across the Estates area. At best this proposal will be tied up in litigation for years, and at worse, it will consume all monies needed for real Estates road improvement. The human cost is even greater, and you've heard several people testify to that. And what message does it send to the young professionals, teachers, health care workers and potential public servants we're trying to attract to Collier County? Come to Collier County, but beware, you can be bought out from anywhere, at any time, not for the greater public good, but by the greater future dollar. On behalf of my neighbors and friends, I urge the Commission to reject this proposal. This is clearly not the staff and board's best work. Eminent domain is not justified for future developments. You can and must do better. The residents and community of Golden Gate Estates certainly deserve better. Thank you for your consideration. (Audience applause.) MR. PETTIT: The next speaker will be Jeff Stivers, followed by Roger R. Rieck. MR. STIVERS: Good evening, Commissioners. I'm going to address you based on two assumptions: One that this road is needed or roads are needed, and that you will make a decision to do something about the lack of roads in the Estates. However, when you do that, three points I'd like to make. Take no homes when the alternative is to take a golf course. Direct your staff to take a golf course rather than a single home. And then you as our elected officials need to step up to the plate and find whatever money is necessary to do that and preserve homes. There's no need to take homes when there's a golf course available, okay? Number two, and Mr. Teaters mentioned this: These people who Page 86 April 17, 2006 are going to be bought out are paying taxes based on their homestead from something 10 or 20 years ago. Whatever place they end up in, those homesteads and their tax rate should be the same. These are not people who are trying to move up in the world into a bigger home, they're simply being stuck with the inflation of real estate prices. And when you do take someone's home, don't tax them out of their home and out of the county and out of their job. So that needs to be taken care of. And number three: We've heard a lot from the owners who are going to be losing 100 feet out of their back yards. I would like to see you again step up to the plate with the purse and give any homeowner who will be losing that 100 feet the option of selling you their home at the price and moving out with the same criteria of anyone who is being forced out. Any of those people who decide to stay in their home, even though they're losing it -- and this was mentioned at one of the recent meetings, if they want a noise wall, you put up a 20- foot noise wall. Whatever it costs. We need the road, we're all aware of that, when you get beyond the emotion, but you need to do this equitably for the people who live there for a reason, like I do. We moved out there for the peace and the quiet and the bears, and in my case so my neighbors don't have to see me getting in my hot tub at night. (Audience applause.) MR. PETTIT: Mr. Rieck will be followed by Marlaine Rieck. MR. RIECK: My wife and I are more recent home buyers in Collier County, actually last December. We picked the Estates because we finally wanted to move out like most people did because of its larger lots, trees, wildlife and seclusion, dead end streets. We didn't know about this. We didn't know about the proposal. And this -- we finally found this out from actually people that were our neighbors down at the end that are actually going to be impacted in a much higher way than we are, harsher. And this wooded __ if Page 87 April 17, 2006 could have known what was going to happen, it's very possible we would not have bought the home. Our realtor did not tell us, we did not know about it. The effect on our neighbors down by the -- at the ends of the highways, of course, at the ends of those streets, the north ends, their homes can be taken and demolished. Those people next to them that their homes may not be taken are actually going to be impacted in a very, very harsh way and they may not get the compensation that they should get. If you look at the present situation, we do have two major roads: Immokalee Road and Golden Gate Boulevard. Golden Gate Boulevard is not completed yet. You need to complete that from Wilson Road to the end. This is going to help a lot for those residents who live farther out. Immokalee Road, when it's completed, is going to make a big difference. You're taking a natural corridor, basically a natural corridor, and you're trying to put a road there. I think we should stick where the roads are and upgrade those roads and not pick on somewhere where you have to go in and buy all these right-of-ways and affect people and also the environmental values that we have there. We have -- you're going to take hundreds of trees, you're going to take habitat and the associated wildlife with that. This is going to be something that you really need to consider. The fact that you may -- if you do put Golden Gate extension through, you're going to come out up to 951. That part of Vanderbilt Beach Road that is going up to Logan Road may not be so bad, but when you get farther in, you're still going to have the congestion problems. You're going to have associated construction with this. It's not only going to affect the residents of Golden Gate Estates, but it's also going to put lots of more traffic on the road and affect those people that want to use other parts of the county. Page 88 April 17, 2006 So there is going to be that problem beyond reaching 951 or Collier Boulevard. The two major developments to the east, Ave Maria and the rather mysterious Big Cypress special district, of which thousands of homes may be built, has been considered that because of these areas there will need to be services for them. There will need to be banks, gas stations, restaurants, all of these things associated with them. Has it been considered that people will not need to come to Naples so much, that jobs will follow out there? We should consider this and not believe that everybody has to go west into Naples. And if all of these people will need to travel to Naples on a daily basis, let's certainly hope not, if they do, no Vanderbilt Beach Road extension will get them there without traffic congestion. Vanderbilt Beach Road is not an existing road, it is a green corridor, it has many natural values itself __ CHAIRMAN HALAS: Sir, can you wrap it up? MR. RIECK: I want to just mention that you must consider what is going to be lost there. Keep the roads where the roads are, don't cut through the heart of Everglades Estates. This is a big responsibility that you have and I think you should think very carefully on it before you make a decision. Thank you. (Audience applause.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you, sir. MRS. RIECK: Marlaine Rieck. That was my husband. We're not used to public speaking. Can you hear me? CHAIRMAN HALAS: If you could just get up a little bit closer to the mic there, ma'am. There you go. MRS. RIECK: Can you hear me now? CHAIRMAN HALAS: Yes, we can, thank you. MRS. R!ECK: My name is Marlaine Rieck. That was my husband. Page 89 April 17, 2006 Before I talk about us individually, I'd like to tell you, I think most of us are aware of the old story about the city mouse and the country mouse. Well, just like the city mouse and the country mouse, there are people who love the city and people who love the country . We should have a choice of which of those lifestyles we want. The road people have talked about the noise impact, how people whose lots will have the road going all of 660 feet. The road people are telling us they shouldn't even notice the road. Well, let me say that people who love the city might not mind the noise of traffic. They've trained their ears to shut it out. Can you still hear me? I can't tell. Us country people like to open our ears to the sounds of nature, the birds, the wind in the trees, bees buzzing, a drop of rain on the porch roof. We smell the sweetness of the pine bark on a warm dry day and the smell of fresh rain on the earth. There is a special feeling of peace in the country that can never be found in this city or next to a highway. Now I'm feeling like are we country people going to be the next endangered species? Okay, my husband and I started coming to Naples area back in the -- probably the mid-1980's. We traveled for a number of years, worked seasonally, we spent many winters working in Naples and Naples area. We recently became year-round residents. Since the time we came to Naples, we've always loved Golden Gate Estates. We've always wanted to live there. We finally attained our dream last fall. We bought our house last September. Actually, we kind of moved gradually. We finished moving out of our rented place in December. This is our American dream, to own a home. And I don't feel like it's right to take that away. I searched hard to find a house that fit our criteria, which was a quiet dead end street and yet close enough Page 90 April 17, 2006 that we could still drive to work without being an hour and a half on the road. This is a picture of our house, by the way. We looked at a lot of houses. We wanted one that had a natural setting, privacy, seclusion, and please don't take our dream away. (Audience applause.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: At this time, we'd like to take another 10-minute break for our court reporter. And we'll be back at 8:26, I believe. (A break was taken.) MR. MUDD: Mr. Chairman, you have a hot mic. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, if you'd take your seats so we can proceed. I believe we have -- how many more speakers? MR. PETTIT: I didn't count, Mr. Chairman, but I'm guessing around 24 or so. CHAIRMAN HALAS: If there are any items that have come up prior, we've all -- we've listened to that. So if you would be so kind as to just pass, and we want to hear new items and we want to get on with this so that we're not here till past midnight. I'm sure that all of you would like to get home also. Okay, we'll stay here as long as you want. We're here for you, but let's proceed. MR. PETTIT: The next speaker, Mr. Chairman, is Denise Garafola. MS. GARAFOLA: I pass. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you. MR. PETTIT: The next speaker would be Sara Timmons. Sara Timmons? CHAIRMAN HALAS: Is there a Sara Timmons in the crowd? MR. PETTIT: And following Ms. Timmons is a J. Schwarzwaelder. Page 91 April 17, 2006 MS. SCHW ARZW AELDER: I'll waive. MR. WEIGEL: Who are you? MS. SCHW ARZW AELDER: Jay Schwarzwaelder. You've heard it all. MS. TIMMONS: Yes, you have heard it all. MR. WEIGEL: Your name, please? MS. TIMMONS: I'm Sara Timmons. I live at 850 12th Avenue Northwest. I've put up with the noise from the well being put in at the end of 12th Avenue Northwest when there were times that they were there at 5:30 in the morning and as late as 12:30 at night. And that was nothing in comparison to the noise that will be from a road. I hate to see it happen to us. It's not fair. We live out there, we moved out there for a reason. If you're going to take part of our land, I think as the gentleman said before that yes, you should be willing to buy it all. And I don't mean at some reduced rate because, you know, we've put a lot into it. My thing is please, just don't do it. (Audience applause.) MR. PETTIT: The next speaker is Steve Harrison, followed by Doug Rankin. Steve Harrison? MR. HARRISON: Steve Harrison. I'm a relatively new resident of Golden Gate Estates, and I'd like to take a different view. I praise you for having the courage to deal with the issues of roads which the State of Florida charges you with. Tonight's meeting has probably been repeated several times in the past by generations before us that had the same kinds of emotional feelings. It does not change the reality that there are 500 to 700,000 more Americans who want to enjoy what we have here in Southwest Florida. You're criticizing developers? Criticize your fellow Americans who want to join you in this paradise. Page 92 April 17, 2006 These men have a duty imposed on them by the state -- (audience disruption) listen to me, please -- to responsibly plan for the future of this county. They're doing it, they've done it well. The transportation department has done a very workmanlike job. Our position on this should be to be -- ask to be handled humanely, quickly and generally, and that's it. (Audience disruption.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Please, everybody will have their say, okay? MR. RANKIN: Good evening, Commissioners. My name is Douglas Rankin. I've lived in the Estates for 18 years. I've been in Collier County for 23 years, and I've been on the lower west coast of Florida all my life, and my family's been here for about 80 years. Yes, I've seen this done many times before. There used to be a time when Pine Ridge used to be the middle of nowhere, and Coachhouse Lane used to be the middle of nowhere. I can go on, but I don't have that much time. The bottom line is you now get to make the hard decisions brought upon you by past mistakes. Past mistakes long before you. Like the fact that all the right-of-ways of these major roads they're talking about in the Estates are 100 feet. In the 1960's, you could put a four-lane road in 100 feet. If you'll talk to your transportation department, today it takes somewhere between 150 and 200 feet to put such a road in. So if you want to talk about taking homes, you six-lane the part of the Boulevard that's currently four-Ianed and you're talking 19 homes is going to be a small number. Because unfortunately you have other government agencies out there that to this day are forcing people to build close to the roads. And so when you go into any of these right-of-ways, be they a right-of-way or a new place, you're going to run into this problem. But it has to be done. We have more people in the Estates right now than you do in the Page 93 April 17, 2006 City of Naples, the City of Marco and the City of Everglades put together and then some. And you tell me that the road network we currently have can service that kind of population, not to mention doubling it? And I don't care whether it builds out in 2011 or 2020 or 2025, how in the heck are those people going to get around? And I'm sorry I didn't take a picture of Golden Gate Boulevard between 7:00 and 9:00 in the morning. It looked worse than Immokalee Road there. And you just can't do it. We have -- we need these roads. We need a lot of roads. Yes, I do disagree with taking homes over a golf course, especially when the gentleman from the golf course said the thing was just built in the year 2000. That's another mistake we're having to make up for. Ifit hadn't been for that period back when none of you all were here in the Nineties and we didn't build any roads, this road would have already been in place. That would have still been agricultural land and we wouldn't be talking about taking a golf course. Also, there's another mistake that most people don't realize. About 12 or 15 years ago the original plan was to run Vanderbilt into Golden Gate Boulevard at an angle. But somebody back then decided not to do it and run it straight in. Vanderbilt Beach Road is the only road you have that's going to be six lanes pretty quick, goes all the way to the coast where most of the people in the Estates work. They don't work out on the East Trail, they work in your area, Commissioner Halas, or in your area, Commissioner Coyle, where I work and own property. We don't want to get out to the East Trail. These people are talking about taking down to Wilson and down to Davis and 75. That is the worst intersection you currently have, isn't it? And transportation confirmed this the other day. This is a vested subdivision. You can't prevent development within this subdivision. It's going to go and it's going to go, and we know that all these other items with moratoriums, you can only stop temporarily. Page 94 April 17, 2006 You have really no choice. This is the best of a worst series of options brought upon you by past mistakes. And it must be done, otherwise you're not going to be responsible for the couple of hundred, 300,000 people that are going to live in the Estates, never mind the other developments. (Audience disruption.) MR. PETTIT: Your next speaker is Rick. McAleer, followed by Chris McAleer. MR. McALEER: I was going to get into a video presentation here with the GIS maps, but a lot of this has already been said. My feeling is just don't build the road. Four-lane the boulevards that are there now. Golden Gate Boulevard to DeSoto, DeSoto Boulevard to Everglades Boulevard and Wilson Boulevard. At the end of Wilson, do an 1-75 interchange. At the end of Everglades there's 42nd Avenue Southeast thatruns along 1-75 down to DeSoto, that could be four-laned from DeSoto up to Everglades to that exchange. Everybody can flow right that way out to I - 75 to wherever they want to go in Naples. The Wilson Boulevard to Landfill Road, great idea, but go by Landfill Road, put a Wilson/I-75 interchange. There's ways to do this without putting in the Vanderbilt Beach Road extension. Thank you. MR. PETTIT: Chris McAleer. MS. McALEER: I was going to waive. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you, ma'am. MR. PETTIT: That will be followed by Steve Olivera. MR. OLIVERA: Good evening, Commissioners. Thank you for this evening and the supporting staff. We appreciate this __ CHAIRMAN HALAS: If you could give your name, sir. MR. OLIVERA: Steve Olivera. Thank you for this evening and the supporting staff. We have some petitions of some 638 people that wanted to voice __ CHAIRMAN HALAS: Could you get a little bit closer to the Page 95 April 17, 2006 mic? MR. OLIVERA: We have some petition I'd like to give you. You're familiar with why Mr. Gaddy was unable to attend, so he asked if I could read his statement, and then I would like to contribute also. For Mr. Gaddy. Dear Commissioners: You are sitting here tonight as jury, which must determine the fate of Vanderbilt Beach Road extension. I urge you to deliberate carefully as your decision will affect the lives of hundreds of Estates residents. As in a capital case, lives are at stake. Throughout all the public meetings conducted by transportation staff, not one convincing shred of evidence was produced to support the extension. No traffic studies, no cost benefit analysis, no community impact statements, nothing of persuasion was ever adduced. This is not meant as criticism of the transportation staff, as they have in fact conducted themselves in a competent and professional manner throughout these proceedings. The truth is, the facts simply do not exist that would support the Vanderbilt Beach extension. That is why they have been unable to make the case for the extension. Many Estates residents would willingly sacrifice their homes for the good of the community if they believed the road was really necessary. It's not needed nor wanted. Mr. Peter P. Gaddy. Thank you. I had written something for myself, but I decided to alter it, they're a lot of the same. There was some accusations made about a group. We are concerned citizens, we are individuals. There's no formal group. There has been no collection of money. This is purely grass roots. I hardly know half the people here by name. I recognize them by seeing them. , There was some accusations made. I definitely don't appreciate it. Anything that was spent or paid for came out of individual pockets, and no one asked for reimbursement. Page 96 April 17, 2006 Golden Gate Civic Association does not represent the majority of people in the Estates, and that's -- (Audience applause.) MR. OLIVERA: -- however, in the paper they have rebutted us. And if you live in Marco Island and if you live outside of this area, it would probably be assumed that. So we do truly resent that, and we are doing our best to change what is happening there. There are other options and we haven't explored them. The option we have now is not to build or to put roads. We put in roads, we know we're adding fuel to the fire. Everybody's going to pay. Taxpayers are going to pay now and they're going to pay from what it's going to bring. What about buying the non-conforming lots and perhaps pulling them together and getting rid of a past that were made -- decisions that were made and reduce or try to reduce some of the impacts so that we can all preserve our quality of life. Again, thank you very much. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you very much. (Audience applause.) MR. WEIGEL: Mr. Chairman, the packet of signed petitions of Mr. Olivera will be submitted to the court reporter for the record. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you very much. MR. PETTIT: Mr. Chairman, the next two speakers are Stefani Cohen and Jack Woodward. MS. COHEN: Pass. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Who are you, ma'am? MS. COHEN: Stefani Cohen. MR. PETTIT: Okay, I'm sorry. MR. WOODWARD: I'll pass. CHAIRMAN HALAS: That gentleman also passed. Next speaker. MR. PETTIT: The next speaker then would be Jason Gerlach, Page 97 April 17, 2006 followed by Artex Thomas. MR. GERLACH: Good evening, Commissioners. Thank you for listening to my concerns this morning -- or this evening, rather. My name is Jason Gerlach. I'm a Collier County citizen. My recommendation or what I'd prefer is to see the county choose the no-build option, but if you find it necessary to extend the road, I would ask that you place it on the north side of Cypress Canal. My reasons are twofold. I don't want to have to go to work tomorrow and explain to 21 employees that are under my supervision that they're without a job. And secondly, that would be taking my source of income, but also my wife works at the Golf Club of the Everglades, and that would be 100 percent of our family income. So please take into consideration those two concerns when you make your decision this evening. Thank you. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Next speaker, please? MR. PETTIT: Artex Thomas. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Is Artex Thomas here? (No response.) MR. PETTIT: I'll move on. Drew Conner. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Drew Conner? (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Next speaker. MR. PETTIT: Kim Ellis. MS. ELLIS: Waive. MR. PETTIT: Greg Muirhead. CHAIRMAN HALAS: And the next speaker to follow Greg? MR. PETTIT: The next speaker after Mr. Muirhead would be Reginald Mesimer. MR. MUIRHEAD: Good evening. My name is Greg Muirhead, I'm a golf course architect. I'm doing good so far, I guess. Page 98 April 17, 2006 I've been employed the last 22 years for Reese Jones, and we're the designers of both these golf courses, and I was the project architect for both of the golf courses. I'm also the current president of the American Society of Golf Course Architects. We're the leading group of architects here in North America. And I'm here basically to provide you with my professional opinion of what the impacts on these golf courses would be should you decide to make the decision to expand the road and should you decide to put it on the north side of the canal. And that's really my only purpose here. And there's two separate results of you doing that: The first with Golf Club of the Everglades, I think the other people that stated earlier tonight the golf club would be out of business are correct. The Golf Club of the Everglades simply has no remaining designated upland to absorb the 20 -- plus or minus 20 acres of impact that would be resulting from the road being realigned north of the canal. There's nowhere to put the two holes that would be displaced, as well as the golf clubhouse. There is remaining wetland on the property. But again, my experience over the last 20 years is that their chances of successfully permitting or mitigating to fill 20 acres of wetland is inconceivable and highly unlikely. In terms of Old Florida Golf Club, it's a little bit different scenario. Still impacts two holes, the green and the third hole, the maintenance area and the entry road. I wish it was as simple as some have suggested tonight, to simply cut those two holes off the plan and paste them someplace else on the club's property and have everything be the way it is today. With the time we have to talk about it, I can't really explain to you why that's not possible and why that's difficult to do. Suffice it to say that it is. Despite that, there is still a solution with the Gulf Club of the Everglades -- I'm sorry, with Old Florida, but it involves building a Page 99 April 17, 2006 new nine holes on property that they already own. And that's the only way in my opinion that they could maintain the quality and the integrity of the golf course that they have today. It's a more expensive proposition to build the nine holes, and it also would preclude, as others have noted tonight, their ability to fulfill the original vision of the project, which was to have two golf courses. But that is a solution that exists, should you decide to move the road in that direction. That's it. Thank you. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you. MR. PETTIT: Mr. Mesimer will be followed by David May. MR. MESIMER: Commissioners, good evening. My name is Reginald Mesimer. I'm the president of Mesimer and Associates, Incorporated. I'm a registered Professional Engineer. I'm licensed to practice in the States of Florida, North Carolina and Alabama. I do the same thing that Bill Gramer does. And over the past 20 years I've done numerous corridor studies in all three of those states. Two years ago, on behalf of the Old Florida Golf Club and the Golf Club of the Everglades, my firm began the preparation of an independent corridor study for the extension of Vanderbilt Beach Road. This study was commissioned in effort to predict what the results of your consultant studies would be and to allow both golf businesses the ability to look ahead and plan early for what the future might bring. Our study was completed about a year ago and produced similar recommendations as to the study just completed by CH2M Hill. Our study, like your consultant's study, indicated that the most cost effective alignment would be a routing along the south side of the canal. While we agree with the conclusions with regard to the most desirable alignment, we disagreed with your consultant's conclusions as to the savings to the taxpayer. Page 100 April 17, 2006 With regard to Old Florida Golf Club, I think your consultant estimated total damage of about 25 million. We think it's more like 35 million. Can I put this on the ELMO? MR. MUDD: Sure. MR. MESIMER: And with regard to Golf Club of the Everglades, your consultant estimated a range up to 46 million. We think it's more than 47 million. We don't agree, as Mr. -- the speaker before me, Greg, spoke before, that -- Muirhead, I'm sorry -- that the Golf Club of the Everglades can be fixed. There's simply not enough land. I've prepared this exhibit, which should be up, which shows our opinion of the cost to go on the north side of the canal versus the south side of the canal. As you can see, we don't think it's 45 million, we don't think it's 50 million, we think it's more like 92 million. If the southerly alignment is selected, these $90 million would be saved, providing this money for other projects that are planned in the county . I think it's important to note there's only a very small percentage of the taxpayers of Collier County that are here tonight. It would seem that most of the attendees -- most of the people that are here are those people that are potentially directly affected by this project. The vast majority of the citizens of Collier County are not here because they're depending upon you to do the right thing. We think with regard to the $92 million, if we're wrong, if your consultant's right and we're wrong, it's still at least 45 to $50 million of their money that you'll be saving. Thank you. MR. PETTIT: David May will be followed by Franklin Adams. MR. MAY: Good evening. My name is David May. I'm also a professional engineer. I've been retained by the Golf Club of the Everglades to analyze the particular study that was done for the extension of Vanderbilt Beach Road. I have a transportation background. Some of you may remember Page 101 "-_.~~.,,".~ '~-'~'-"'-"'",,-,,- April 17, 2006 me as the District One Department of Transportation District Secretary that incorporated this area. And in fact, Norman Feder and Don Scott were some of my employees, and we had numerous different corridor studies that were very, very difficult, very, very emotional. And I really understand what you're going through and the tough decisions that you have to make as commissioners and decision-makers. Now, unfortunately you're not going to make everyone happy, particularly the people that will be in the meeting room this evening. There is an obligation that each of us have as decision-makers to make good decisions based upon what's best for the overall group that you're serving. The growth in the area, in the east county area, is impacting this particular -- the Estates group substantially. As it builds out, a lot of the things that they cherish and they really adore in their area will be slowly changing as more and more population takes place. The need for transportation is predicted in the models. It's easy to say fix these particular roadways now, and that's fine, but we're also considering all those roadways being fixed and you still have a tremendous need to do additional efforts. The act of eminent domain is only taken when you don't have enough right-of-way. So a long, long time ago when this area was planned there was not sufficient right-of-way designated for corridors, for roadways, and now difficult decisions have to be made. The character of the area is going to change due to the growth that's occurring, not due to the roadway. The character of the area is going to change also more by having a roadway extension than the particular alignment of the roadway. The alignment of the roadway in the area of the golf course, whether it's $50 million difference or $90 million, it's 50 or $90 million that can go to another transportation improvement that can Page 102 April 17, 2006 help all the citizens of Collier County, all the people that are going to be driving through, all the different people that are going to be represented in Collier County. So it's a very important and very difficult decision to have to make, what type to do, whether you impact the people from their home, which no one wants to do, you don't want to do, no transportation person wants to recommend it, or on the other hand spend $90 million additional, when that's going to impact so many other people that -- 50 to 70 to 80,000 people a day that would travel on that particular section of the roadway. A very difficult decision. I encourage you strongly, support your staffs recommendation. Their study's valid, their traffic recommendations are valid and they've done a good job to give you the information you need to make a very difficult decision. Thank you. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you, sir. MR. PETTIT: Following Mr. Adams will be Kent Carlyle. MR. ADAMS: Good evening, Commissioner Halas, fellow Commissioners. I'm Franklin Adams and I live at 761 15th Street Northwest, at the northwest end of the street on a dead end road. I live there with my wife Kathy and my daughter Heather, who's been a county employee, a Collier County employee for 1 7 years, and she still can't afford to buy her own home, so -- and her son, our grandson, 16-year-old Michael. And so that's the Adams family answer to affordable housing. Much of what I wanted to say, wrote down here, has been said in each individual's own way. Most all of it has been from the heart, with a couple of exceptions. You know, Florida -- there's four generations of Floridians in that house. We bought that property 25 years ago at the end of a rock road because we liked the isolation and we liked the burrowed owls, the rattlesnakes and the deer and the bears. They come from the north Page 103 April 17, 2006 down through the Talon property there, the Bonita Bay property and cross that dirt road now and come onto our property and we get to enjoy seeing them. We sit out there. I'd invite each one of you to come and sit on our back porch some evening. You can see the stars. There's absolutely no traffic sound. You only know when there's an ambulance out there because the dog begins to howl. It's a little bit of heaven. And we're really emotional about it when faced with the prospect of losing what we have out there. It's not just dollars and cents. You know, Florida's been such a mega growth area. You know, what happened to our sense of place? Whatever happened to neighborhoods? What happened to that consideration? There's an awful lot at stake here. Years ago some people, when I was younger and had more of my marbles together, some people came to me and asked me if I would run for the Collier County Commission. And I thought about it and said no, and tonight vindicates that decision. You know, the transportation people in some of the meetings I've gone to have been very accommodating, they've tried to answer my questions, but they were a little misguided when they talked to me, because they told me that if they extended that dead end road I live on across Vanderbilt Beach Road, I would have easy access, I could get out of there quicker and everything. Well, guess what? I, a lot of my neighbors, we like what we have. We'll put up with the inconvenience and the time. We moved out there to preserve that lifestyle. We'll make that accommodation. We may grumble about it, but we've learned to live with it. The future school site and the park site. I think with careful planning and looking at this closely, we can find a way to get into those areas. I have a solution to the cost of the golf courses, the cost to the taxpayers, the cost of the road, the loss of quality of life and all that is no-build. Don't build this road. Page 104 April 17, 2006 (Audience applause.) MR. ADAMS: I know my time's up, but my wife would get on me if I don't tell you this. And this is a quote from Aldo Leopold, who is the father of the land ethic. And Aldo said, "A thing is right when it tends to preserve the integrity, stability and beauty of the neighborhood community. It is wrong when it tends otherwise." Thank you. (Audience applause.) MR. PETTIT: Kent Carlyle, followed by Tina Matte. MR. CARLYLE: My name's Kent Carlyle. I live in Golden Gate Estates and I think this is obviously a sensitive issue. And I think we all agree that we need roads, but I think we need a sensitive design and I'm not seeing the sensitive design. I'm seeing 200- foot right-of-way. You know, I think the road's like Logan and I think of like County Barn Road, they're only two-lane roads, but they flow really good. I don't know why, I don't understand that, but they move good. And they're only two lanes. So I'm wondering if the engineers looked at two lanes on the north side of the canal, maybe two lanes on the south side. You know, I'm just tired of seeing these typical urban cross-sections all over the county. Why don't we do something creative, because we need a creative solution here. It might not be the perfect road, but I think you would still get the connection that you need, you know, it would relieve some traffic and maybe a lot of people's homes could be saved and maybe, you know, maybe that's the way to go. That's all I have. (Audience applause.) MR. PETTIT: After Ms. Matte is Milly Mercado. MS. MATTE: Good evening, Commissioners. My name is Tina Matte, also Matte, whatever you would like it to be. I appreciate the opportunity to be here this evening, and I'm representing the Page 105 - "------"---,-_._.,~-"._-""- "" April 17, 2006 Southwest Florida Transportation Initiative, which is a public-private partnership that represents more than 85 member organizations throughout Southwest Florida. As you may know, we've been advocates of transportation improvements throughout Southwest Florida for nearly eight years now, for funding, for improvements. And very often these issues are highly emotional, as they are this evening, and for very good reason. However, this extension has been studied extensively, it's been considered for a long time, you've hired good staff and good consultants to do these studies and make recommendations to you. And I think on behalf of the members of SWFTI, I would encourage you to go with their recommendation. This is an important east-west link. We have longer and longer commute times, we have road rage, we are losing quality of life. The residents of the entire county are depending on you to make this decision, to provide relief to the overall network. It is very important. I know it's emotional, but we'd encourage you to go with your staff recommendation. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you. MS. MERCADO: Hi. My name is Milly Mercado, and I'm here on behalf of all my friends and neighbors that live in Golden Gate Estates. I live in the agricultural zone, but as -- the same that is happening to them before another road, Garland Road, was threatening my own home also. And I need to speak for them so that -- it is not just in this area, but in other areas. We were in Miami before. I came to Collier County because over there at the same time there was the land being taken away so that the water management could have more water. And so we moved to this area to have a little farm of our own and everything. And I know it's the same thing that all our neighbors are trying to do and have their own peace and quiet and their own animals and everything like that. And in our area, we need that. Page 106 April 17, 2006 And, you know, just like all these other people, I came from New York originally, and just going from bigger places to smaller places to larger places so that you would have more peace and quiet. And I feel bad for all these people that are my neighbors, my friends that they're not going to have their own peace of mind. And I fear that we are in our own, just pushing away and pushing away all that we really worked for and all that Collier County is and all that everybody sees in Collier County. And we need to preserve that. So please, no road. (Audience applause.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Thank you very much. MR. PETTIT: The next speaker is Rick Haylock, to be followed by Ellen Neil. MR. HAYLOCK: Good evening, Commissioners. I want to thank you for allowing me to speak before you this evening and welcome everyone. You know, I was thinking of what some of the persons were saying there, that, you know, that we didn't represent all the county. And, you know, everyone I talked to, at first they said well, you know, we need roads. But then after I told them the fairness of it, just the basic, you know, did we know this road was coming? And we didn't. You know, they said, what happened, who dropped the ball, what's going on? This road was never shown on any of the plans when we came here. We looked at all the maps, we went to the transportation staff: we paid for what they had so that we could look and see where the major roads were going to go, because we wanted to know. We had the same problem in Miami and we weren't going to go through that hell again. So we said where are the roads going to go? Vanderbilt was not on there. These people are innocent. They have been put through hell for something that they didn't even know about. They bought homes, they planned the rest of their lives, they put their nest eggs in here. Page 107 April 17, 2006 And for what? So that they could be paved over with a six-lane highway? I don't think that's fair. And everyone that I talked to, they agreed with me. So I said well, maybe there's more people. So I talked with more. And a lot of the people came here because they had talked to people like me. I said there's something wrong. I don't live there where they're going to pave, I don't live where the houses are going to be taken, but there's something basically wrong in what is happening here. And the people of Collier County and the people of Golden Gate, once they see this they're going to say, this isn't right. And it is a political abyss to vote for this. You can't allow this to go forward, because other people will see the unfairness of it. I mean, I asked the transportation staff questions. We were shown maps, we were shown designs or whatever, but we never got any answers. People came and they looked, but no one was there to tell them anything. They would show them the pretty pictures and then we would ask well, what are the choices here and why . We got no answers, we got no facts, we got no traffic counts, we got no feasibility studies, we got nothing that would let us know why these choices were being made. And finally they come out and they come out with the recommendations, and it won't go through the golf course because it's going to cost a few extra dollars. But when you look at the people's lives that you're going to destroy, how are you going to put a cost analysis on that? There are people there that are nurses, they've talked to you tonight. They've told you, they said where are we going to go? We won't be able to live here in Collier County. We won't be able to take care of you. You know, they're professionals, they've working people, they're people that Collier County needs. And so I think that if you look at it and if you think of the Page 108 April 17, 2006 fairness of it, you will vote no on this road. Thank you. (Audience applause.) MR. PETTIT: Ellen Neil. MS. NEIL: I'll waive. MR. PETTIT: Is there a Gaylord-- MS. NEIL: That was me, thank you. MR. PETTIT: Your next speaker then would be Ron Hueston, to be followed by Meggan Davis. MR. HUESTON: Good evening, everybody. That word Collier County up there, that means something right here in my heart. I've been coming over there a long time. I used to live in Miami. But even though I lived in Miami I've been coming over here since I'm the age of five. I'm 42 years old. And one day I said if I ever get enough money, I'm going to move over to Collier County. And you know what? Eight years ago I did. Eight years ago I did and I bought me a piece of property out in the Estates. And I love every single one of the people who I live out there with. I've busted my ass, I've worked hard, I've built my property up. And one day a road's going to come through my property like it's coming through these people's property. How you all can sit here tonight and talk about going home if it's takes till midnight, at least you all have a home to go to. How you all can sit here tonight and talk about a golf course, go through a golf course, let's get rid of a bunch of people, let's let them lose their jobs, let's make them move somewhere else, let's show them how uninvited they are out in Collier County. But there's that other option. Let's take it all the way through, take all the property, take all the wilderness, take all the wildlife and take 19, 20,25 homes for a cost of$50 billion or whatever it's going to cost this other guy over here, 90 million. Does anybody know what it's going to cost? But to have to go home with that on your minds and get rid of Page 109 April 17, 2006 people. Everything that's happening in this world today, with hurricanes and home displacement and stuff like that, we're no better than anybody else. Here I am at 9:05 at night, sitting here listening to a bunch of people argue and talk about getting rid of jobs and taking people's homes. To me that isn't what this place is about. I'm here for the peace and serenity and beautifulness of Collier County and where I live at. You know, I do a show every Thursday night on Sunshine. Every Thursday night I do a TV show and I commend and I talk about how beautiful Southwest Florida and Collier County is. Am I making a mistake? Am I doing a show every Sunday -- four nights a week talking about how beautiful this place -- am I misinforming people? Am I letting them know that the people of Collier County don't have a heart? All these people, look at them. I've got to be here tonight at 9:00 at night and watch people in tears? Watch people dressed up in business suits and people dressed up like me all arguing with one another over money and a roadway? In my opinion, I believe that's pretty pathetic. That's just me personally. I'm not here in Collier County, and I'm not out there in Golden Gates Estates because I'm here because I want to be here and I enjoy the way I live out there. I come home at night and listen to the birds, wake up in the morning and listen to the birds, listen to the whippoorwills, watch the bears go by, look at the cottontails in the morning, wake up whenever I want and get up and go fishing and enjoy the Everglades. That's why I'm here. I'm here for peace and serenity. And I think that's what everybody in here and on this board needs to think about: A little peace and serenity and saving some people's lives, saving their homes, saving their retirement and saving their jobs. Thank you. (Audience applause.) Page 110 April 17, 2006 MS. DAVIS: Good evening. My name is Meggan Davis and I represent the Longshore Lake Homeowners Association. Longshore Lake is located on Immokalee Road. The decisions you must make this evening will take the wisdom of Solomon. I do not envy you. But the numbers that were given for the increased traffic on Immokalee if nothing is done is also very scary to our community. We support a decision which will provide more east-west corridors and help alleviate the traffic on Immokalee Road. Thank you. MR. PETTIT: Your last speaker is Estela Perez. MS. PEREZ: I'm glad I'm the last one. I am very happy that a Spanish person is the last one to speak up. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Ma'am, just get by the mic. Thank you very much. MS. PEREZ: You know why I'm so excited? CHAIRMAN HALAS: Ma'am, your name? MS. PEREZ: My name is Estela Wynns Perez. I have many, many, many reasons to be here tonight. But more than all my problems that I'm going to face having the road going through my backyard and destroying my whole entire life, the future and the life of my husband with four bypass, we all have forgotten something very important here. In this seal you have back there says, In God We Trust. We are trusting you. Our life. You know why? Because God gave you the power to be sitting there listening to all of us. And more than all of us. This doesn't mean that is all of us here. This is just one percentage or maybe less than one percentage of the people that are going to be hurt by this road. This lady does not speak English, okay? Like her, in Golden Gate Estates I believe there's more than 50 percent of the people that does not speak English and that are not here tonight. And she didn't know that the road was going to pass through her house, which is Page 111 April 17, 2006 facing -- she is in Wilson Boulevard, facing my backyard. She went to make her tax, because I'm a tax maker, I'm a business manager, and I told her, do you know what's going on? She says, no, what? What is going on? I says, your house is right where the road is going to come through. She says, what are you talking about? This was last week. Spanish people don't know -- doesn't have the slightest idea what is going on. And there's so many hard-working people living in the Estates because of the same reason you all have, and I have, and they don't have anybody to speak up for them, okay? This lady is in tears. She is improving her house and she didn't even know what was going on. Okay? Now, the golf course, oh, nice and dandy, I wish I have a golf course in the backyard of my house. But I don't have it. I have the deers in the morning, which refreshes me and give me life. What is all life about? Life is about human beings. Don't you know that life is only one second? My time is up, but I'm the last one, okay? Weare here tonight and we don't know if we are going to be here tomorrow. We have a war out there. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Ma'am, your time is up. MS. PEREZ: We have a lot of souls around. This is our little happiness. This is our world. These people don't know. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Ma'am, your time is up. MS. PEREZ: And I care for them, and I care for me. Please, don't make this road. (Audience applause.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay, at this time the public portion of the speakers is closed and now this -- we'll take questions or we'll-- the staff here will have -- I imagine they have many questions here. And we'll start off with Commissioner Coletta. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you. Page 112 April 17, 2006 Boy, I must say, this has been definitely the most passionate meeting I've ever attended in my life. You all did a wonderful job. Now, Mr. Feder, sometimes, you know, when people repeat things often enough, it almost becomes fact. I want to know what our other road options are. If we don't build Vanderbilt, what are our options to be able to move that traffic? It's there in the Estates now and will be coming there in the future. MR. FEDER: What we've shown you is a long-range plan which includes quite a few corridors, many of which are going to be unfortunately just as difficult as what you've experienced tonight. Without Vanderbilt Beach Road, we can't meet the future demands. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Mr. Feder, there's been numerous references made here tonight of the lack of study, that this had not been studied, it hasn't gone through the process, that transportation has failed us miserably in supplying us with the information that we may need to make an intelligent decision. Would you comment on that? MR. FEDER: Yes. First of all, what I'd like to do is I've gone to quite a few meetings with a lot of the people that are out here tonight, and I want to recognize the passion and the genuine concern that they have. I've come to recognize and get to know quite a few of them. Unfortunately what I need to tell you is that the need is there. Not to address it doesn't make it go away. What I told you in our initial presentation, even in the year course of study since we did the base maps, there's been an awful lot of growth out in the Estates, and that growth is going to continue. Unfortunately what we're facing is if we defer this, we bring another group, many, many more people impacted in front of you in the future. I don't relish, and your staff does not relish, bringing forward this item where we're taking any home. We have not taken that lightly. Page 113 April 17, 2006 We have studied this in great detail. We've had quite a few modeling exercises through different processes that have confirmed the need, confirmed the first statement I made to you, and that is that this road is needed as part of the system. You've heard a lot of statements, why don't you develop the other boulevard streets where the footprint is already out there. And I agree. We're in the process of moving on these. We just went to you with a design to continue Golden Gate Boulevard further out to the east, out to now DeSoto. And the group is very correct, back in '99, 2000,2001 when we had the plan update for the 2025 , Vanderbilt Beach Road was added in out to Wilson. And the thought was not a lot of business, not a lot of growth and impact past Wilson. I would say that any of you that have driven out there have seen very, very quickly that it goes past Wilson, past Everglades, all the way out to DeSoto already. And so that growth is pretty soon going to become the center of this county. And it's a growth that we need to respond to, and we're trying as your staff and as their staff as well, although I realize that the people that are affected directly with this, you heard very genuine concerns and very genuine issues that we've heard as we've tried to figure out an alignment in the study. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Over and over again, the comment was made that these roads are being built not for people in the Estates, they're being built for future development. MR. FEDER: You've got 1,300 additional homes that can be built out in the Estates. As I mentioned, just in the course of about 14 months, it's amazing to see how many homes already were constructed during that period of time or under construction. Lots are being subdivided throughout that area. And so the growth is going on. The statement of 55 percent of our population, whatever that percentage is, it's already bigger, as was pointed out, than the City of Page 114 April 17, 2006 Naples, Everglades City and the others combined, and it's continuing to grow. I realize people who have established a niche -- and many of these people have, so I'm not taking that lightly -- do not want to see that changed. And yet the area is changing around them. The neighbors are coming, they're going to want that access, they're going to want that ability to go basically west in the morning, east in the afternoon. And that is something that we're trying to respond to. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Someone also made the comment that Big Cypress does not have to pay impact fees. I presume they meant for roads. Is that correct? MR. FEDER: That is not correct. Nothing that I'm aware of is that they are not required to pay impact fees. They have to develop the roads within their district, that's what a CDD does. So the roadways within their district they have to develop. But they still have to pay for their impacts, much like Ave Maria had to pay for a lot of the development of Oil Well which is underway. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Can you tell me how I answer people when they tell me that no disclosure was ever made when they bought their homes that Vanderbilt Road would be coming through? MR. FEDER: I don't question it for a minute. What I will tell you, that unfortunately, in spite of us having issues in our long-range plan, people that have called us -- and I heard one and I'm going to try and get with that person, I made a note here -- we have treated people with the information as best we have it. Now, I will tell you, what was interesting in one of the public meetings was the statement that was pretty uniformly supported by the group and that is how could you have let me build my home about a year ago out in here in the Estates knowing that the study was going on, and that as it turns out this individual wasn't impacted, but I might have been impacted. And my answer had to be to them, until I have an alignment Page 115 April 17, 2006 determined, you have those property rights to build and I can't stop you. The unfortunate part about us not making a decision, not establishing an alignment is there's many, many more people that are going to come up to me, come up to you, come up to our successors and say why didn't you tell me you were going to do this. Because I assure you that even in the no-build, the decision not to make a decision tonight is not going to make this need go away. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Ifwe make a decision here tonight and we come up with a route, how can we be assured that future people that buy land out there, get ready to build, will know that there's a road coming by them or through their property? MR. FEDER: We have this and we can require setback and notification identify the lots. We put right-of-way in early. I think one point that you heard that I'm going to tell you from your staff is to be humane, to be quick and to be effective and almost generous. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And financially fair. MR. FEDER: Fair, yes. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's the word I heard. That brings us back to another question: The general assumption is they will not be made financially whole, that they're going to be left holding the bag and be put outdoors and they'll never be able to buy another home within the Golden Gate Estates area again to replace the one they lost. How do you answer something like that? MR. FEDER: I will tell you that Florida has one of the strongest property rights laws. And for people that don't ask to be taken (sic), that's important and it's good. The fact of the matter is, we have to go through a process. And I know a lot of folks have argued, why are you going to use eminent domain, it's not right. The fact of the matter is we don't develop any transportation projects, nor do other counties, states or areas around Page 116 April 17, 2006 the country without the use of eminent domain. But that use of eminent domain is a two-edged sword. In fact, that use of eminent domain is what we try to avoid by making a good and reasonable offer and try to negotiate a settlement. When we go into eminent domain, that means I pay for the attorney, I pay for the appraiser, I pay for the expert witness for them to take us to court, taxpayers to court. And in that situation we have all the court costs and other issues. So eminent domain is also protecting their rights. If we do not respond to the issues, whether it be the tax burdens, whether it be the value of the property, the remainder, the impact on that remainder property or other issues, if we don't respond to them, they have every right, and I assume they will take us to court. We help pay their ability to do it, and then we either arbitrate with a judge, and if that's not successful, they can have a jury trial. So the process is there to cover them as well. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Now, someone made the comment that they won't know if their home's going to be taken until we get to the 50 percent design change. Is that correct? MR. FEDER: What we have right now is we've identified those that are obviously taken on an alignment. Now, having said that, what staff said to you as well is that we've identified a 200-foot corridor. We did that on purpose and we told everybody as we went through this process that we didn't want to surprise anyone. So we went with what we thought is the maximum alignment, maximum corridor. As we go past Wilson, which is interesting, too, because as you've said, the developer issue, we're probably in our five years only going to get out to Wilson. It will be years after that before you get to Everglades and DeSoto, if then, because other projects like Wilson Boulevard desperately needs to be developed in that time frame, as does others, Randall and the like. So in essence we're going to be addressing that, we're going to be Page 117 April 17, 2006 continuing, too. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: The comment was made that the wells were put in after we planned the road. MR. FEDER: Some of them were. The initial wells were on that alignment on that north side of the canal. I don't know if it was about three or four years ago, and Jim DeLony's here but he can possibly shake his head if I say wrong, but essentially there were some additional ones put in I'd say about three years ago. But the issue that we raised then, knowing that this was in our long-range plan, was we didn't want those to go outside of the direct line of the wells that already existed previously. So those additional wells were continued along that same line, not to then create further corridor problems. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Quick question for Mr. DeLony, who's right behind you. If you'd elaborate on that, I'd appreciate it. Also, too, why can't you just move the pump houses, if it takes nothing more than just putting a length of pipe down and moving a cinderblock building? MR. DeLONY: For the record, Jim DeLony, Public Utilities Administrator. Essentially that's what we're going to do. But sir, you have to move the well itself, the hole in the ground, that penetration of the aquifer. We'll have to move it out of the roadway and punch it in the ground, you know, three to 400 feet or 200 feet out of the roadway, outside of the road traveled way. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I mean, why couldn't the well be under the ground and like a 90-degree elbow taking it over to the side MR. DeLONY: We wouldn't be able to -- excuse me, I'm sorry. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: You wouldn't be able to what, sir? Page 118 April 17, 2006 MR. DeLONY: Sir, we would not be able to probably maintain that well. If that well is in the traveled rights-of-way, covered up by road, I can't get in there and work that well, specifically on top of that well to do the kinds of work we do down hole. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'll tell you what my concerns are. We have a number of other corridors that we're going to be looking at. MR. DeLONY: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And people mentioned it here tonight: Everglades Boulevard, DeSoto, Oil Well, Randall. They're all on the books. These are all coming down. I mean, it's going to be a period of time before we get to everything. But are we making provisions there as far as where our wells go? I know on Wilson we didn't really think about it. And all the wells went on the west side of the highway, which forces the whole road onto the east side. When that road gets to go in, we'll undoubtedly have to take homes to be able to build it, hopefully not many. It's going to have a big impact. But are we making some provision for new wells going in to avoid this in the future? MR. DeLONY: Sir, it comes down to this: If I know there's going to be a corridor alignment, I'm going to stay out of that alignment. We're going to put the wells along that alignment to conserve the real estate usage, because there is compatible use there. But I'm not putting wells where Norm's going to put a road if we know for a fact that's where the road's going to go. This Wilson alignment, I think Norm was very clear in his response back to you, sir, that we put the alignment for these wells that came online in the most recent wells along a straight line of the existing wells. So if there was an alignment in this area, a decision as to where the roads go, we wouldn't be in any worse shape than what we already were with the existing well string that was there. Page 119 April 17, 2006 So to answer your question directly, absolutely, we're not putting wells where there is going to be a road. But a lot of times we find that that's exactly where the roads are going to go, and we make those arrangements to make sure that any mitigation I do is the minimum possible. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I know that we now have a pretty good idea where all our future roads are going to go, at least for the next -- to 2030. Can we mark those things out in such a way that when people go to permitting they know that their house has to be back so far, that they are going to have a road there in the future, there won't be a question of them showing up at a meeting to a future commissioner meeting 10 years from now going through the same thing we're going through today? How can we get -- MR. FEDER: With your direction, we would like to require greater setback from established boulevards out in the Estates. They are going to be expanded, they're in the process of being expanded, so we need greater setbacks. One of the problems that we face, interestingly enough, and I think it was raised by some of the folks here tonight, is a lot of the environmental issues are trying to discourage people from moving their homes back from abutting basically those roadways. And so that's something that we need to overcome, because we need that further setback. As you mentioned, Wilson Road, that's what I was trying to tell you, none of the others are going to be getting easier. This one is definitely not easy, and the others will have many of the same issues: Wilson, Randall, Everglades, DeSoto, all of them. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Can you tell me why we can't widen Golden Gate Boulevard from Wilson down to 951? Why we can't make that an eight-lane highway? MR. FEDER: First of all, I don't think I would recommend an eight-lane highway unless it's one that's access-controlled, because you don't get a lot more capacity from six to eight. You have Page 120 April 17, 2006 weaving and safety problems. That's why you don't see a lot of eight-lane other than a continuous turn lane right across the Gordon River Bridge. But why don't we six-lane it? Unfortunately a decision was made to four-lane and development has gone around it very, very tight. One thing we are looking at is possibly the first mile down to the school establishing a third -westbound lane once we have the three southbound lanes south of Golden Gate Boulevard to accept it on 951, would allow that bottleneck to open up a little bit in that intersection to operate a little more efficiently. But we really don't have the room for six lanes as it stands right now without, again, taking quite a few homes and impacting them severely. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Is this the first road you ever built? You build a couple of them in your lifetime? Serious questions. MR. FEDER: Yes. And one of them that is almost deja vu is Livingston Road. I wasn't here when that debate went on. This board wasn't here. But I was with the state and watched it. And I'll tell you what, it's almost deja vu. The same arguments I heard, the same impacts that it would create to the community, the same things it would do to property values. And I'm almost shuddering that I live in the urbanized area, because I think I want to move out to the Estates. But what I will tell you is that has not resulted in those problems. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We had talked to people talking about going to the next step after they leave here. If we put the road in, wherever it goes, that there's going to be serious litigation. Has this been your experience in the past that whenever a road goes in it's followed by a tremendous amount of litigation that ties you up for years? MR. FEDER: You can have it. Typically you don't end up in Page 121 April 17, 2006 that because the process provides for us to respond, and we will follow the process. As a matter of fact, I would hope -- and this is the part that I was mentioning before -- that we get the guidance, especially as we're talking about hitting homes in this area, that we would get the guidance to do some more extraordinary things in trying to buy some of the right-of-way where we can negotiate it early even before I get to the point of 60 percent design plans, and we put right-of-way into our program with that in mind, even ahead of design being 60 or complete. Additionally, the prospect of looking at possibly where we purchased the home, if we're not ready to move on that section yet, or until we are, allowing people to then lease-back or to live in that, depending what the board's direction. I know that was discussed when we were talking about issues on Logan, which is the very first of the Estates roads that we dealt with. And what I'm trying to tell you is it's not going to get any easier. It wasn't easy then, it is definitely not easy now. And the others are going to be much the same issue that unfortunately I'm going to be bringing to you, not that I want to. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Mr. Feder, back when we were doing Santa Barbara, expanding that to six lanes and going through the whole process with a crowd very similar to this one, one of the things that came up was the possibility that if a home is -- if a property is greatly impacted by a road going through, that we would purchase the property in total and then deal with it as we may see necessary, rather than separate it off and leave the homeowner with that part. How does that come into the process? At what point in time will we discussing these types of options? MR. FEDER: These are issues that, as I mentioned, I would like to get direction from the board. Obviously we're not in the real estate business. I'm not going to go out and buy homes to try to resell them on the market. But where we are impacting homes and the feeling is Page 122 April 17, 2006 that they'd rather be bought, and then we can define the roadway and then sell to someone who knows that they're 100 feet away from a roadway, then I think we may have an opportunity. I don't know if I can talk about affordable housing from the prices I was told out there. I can't afford it. But what I would say is I'd try to do it in possibly a resale, and obviously its value would have been discounted by what we paid already for the action. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Another issue that's come up, and this is a big one, I know it would be for me if I was in the midst of this type of turmoil, was the loss of Save Our Homes. It's a tremendous amount of money. I mean, people that bought their homes, like myself, 22 years ago, I believe Save Our Homes came in, what '89 or so? MR. FEDER: About that time. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: What I pay in taxes now, if I move to the same house just down the street, my taxes would triple. That impact is everlasting, it's going to be with them forever. Of course we can't write the tax code, but we can certainly build in a reimbursement that would cover a more than reasonable length of time MR. FEDER: Two things on that: You have legislation being considered in Tallahassee. That legislation is proposing to increase the homestead and also to provide for 100,000 of portability, hopefully within the county, possibly external, to another county in Florida. Regardless of how that goes about, our process, as I said, needs to take in the full impacts into account. If I do not take them into account in my offer, which is the way we'd like to settle it under negotiation, then I am sure I will be addressing that when I end up in condemnation. So whether someone's been there two years or 20 years, the impact of that is something we'll have to take into account. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Another thing that came up Page 123 April 17, 2006 during the conversation -- I apologize to my fellow commissioners. CHAIRMAN HALAS: These are good questions. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I know Commissioner Henning is waiting very patiently and I won't __ COMMISSIONER HENNING: We'll just take a break. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you. Give me your proxy before you leave. The other thing that was very concerning, I mean, people moved out there for the quiet, the peacefulness of it. I imagine there have probably been similar situations right here in the urban area where people also eventually had to catch up on. And we heard people come from Miami that had have had the civilization catch up with them there. I know we've had people in other areas of Collier County having to do it. But the biggest thing is all of a sudden that peace and quiet where you're sitting there quietly at the end of your street, all you hear is maybe an occasional car going up and down the street and now you're going to have that background noise, that continuous rumbling, you know. Not the ATVs that the kids are running wild on, it's the traffic that's going to be continuous. Sound walls. I know that there's a warrant study that we do for sound walls. But I've got to put my fellow commissioners on notice, if we do get to the point that we are going to take people's homes, that we're going to impact the other people that are left around there, I plan to fight every inch of the way for wherever it's appropriate to have sound walls in place, just to warn you ahead of time. I've still got a couple of items, but I could go on forever, but I'm starting to -- I'm wearing out. Commissioner Henning's got his light on. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is this an advertised workshop or advertised public meeting? MR. FEDER: This is a special meeting, duly advertised. Page 124 ._.,'~'___,,~._,_~>o._ ."~ '_'"~"'''''''_._>~,_""" April 17, 2006 MR. PETTIT: This is a special meeting. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. And the portability or the loss of property -- taxation or the portability issue is important. That's why I talked to Commissioner Coyle's favorite Senator Bennett about making sure that we get something on there when government has to do eminent domain, so all the taxing district can share in those reliefs because of eminent domain. But I know there's a lot of people in this room that has lived out there for a number of years, and I'm sure a lot of you remember in the mid-Nineties when the fires were raging in Golden Gate Estates __ UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE: '85. 1985. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right, okay. UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE: My entire street burned, and it was burning -- CHAIRMAN HALAS: Ma'am, we hear you. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I was a fire commissioner in the Nineties, so that's why I particularly remember. So I'm going to finish my story, if you don't mind. Thank you. In Northern Belle Meade the fire was coming along and they closed down Golden Gate Boulevard. I was out there when a mother of -- I think it was, if I remember right -- two wanted to get home because her kids were at home and they couldn't do that, or they'd have to go down Immokalee Road and come in the back way. And there was a lot of people that had livestock that had a similar problem. I don't want to have to do that again. I think your best choice is to have choices to -- whether it be property, animal or especially children. And I know this is a tough decision for Commissioner Coletta, but I'm going to support our staff, because we are charged with health, safety, welfare of the residents here in Collier County. People in Golden Gate Estates, it's not going to stop growing, and it's not fair for you and the residents to come only to depend on certain Page 125 April 17, 2006 roadways. So I don't know if you're ready for a motion, but I'm ready to make a motion. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Fiala? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. And I appreciate that. I so agree with you about the Save Our Homes cap. And I know that that's an issue, and they say you have to have approval from the state. But you know, I think that we can find a way, we can leave no stone unturned until we take that Save Our Homes cap and put it on a new residence. You know, even if you compensate them for a few years, that compensation goes away and still they're paying a higher tax rate. And I feel that there's got to be a way, when it's through no fault of their own, when the property is seized by eminent domain, that we can move that Save Our Homes cap there. That's my first statement. The second thing is I think that, you know, we naturally, you know, when we take appraisals or when we get appraisals, whoever the property owner is has one nice high appraisal and our property appraiser gives a nice low appraisal and then they work something out. I think we ought to go right in there with a nice high appraisal, something more than fair to compensate these people. I think that also is a necessity. Thirdly, I realize that nobody is going to be having to move for a while, but they should be able to live there rent free while they're finding another place, so that they can pay onto this thing so then they can move and we're not hurting them any at all. That's my third concern. I think maybe also there's -- there are maybe ways that we can creatively build Vanderbilt Beach Road __ UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE: Thank you very much; thank you very much. COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- so that we can go around homes so that, you know, like one fellow said, be creative. Well, you know, Page 126 April 17, 2006 there's no reason why we can't be creative. We might have to hit a couple of them, but we don't have to hit them all. And I think that -- you know, yeah, we've got some golf courses in there, and yes, they said we're going to pay a lot of money. I don't believe that we're going to pay that much money. The guys that said they were going to be out of work and they said tomorrow they're going to go in and tell everybody they're fired. Well, we know they're not building a road tomorrow. We know that's a couple years down. That couple years gives them the time to relocate holes so that then their people can continue to work and still we're saving more homes as we go along. So I would love to see some kind of a creative pathway. I know that you've done your best. So if it does a lot of meandering -- you know, one thing about a nice meandering road, it certainly does slow the traffic down a little. So those are my comments. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Coyle? COMMISSIONER COYLE: I second Commissioner Henning's motion. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Okay. Commissioner Coletta? COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, just wanted to bring some facts to it. Out of the eight people that would be impacted if we went to the golf course across the way, I've had three of them now come up to me and tell me not to do it, take their homes, go right down through that area, they'd rather not be across there from the highway. Especially with the water carrying across the canal -- the sound carrying across the canal would be a tremendous impact on them. And as far as meandering, it would even take more homes and expose even more people to it. So I don't know if that would be a reasonable suggestion, you know, to take a six-lane highway and start to meander it, it's going to take out half a block here and there. But it would be real interesting. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, actually, Commissioner Page 127 "~~"'--"''''''''---'--'~~-'" April 17, 2006 Coletta, I've also had a few people in that same situation and they said they would prefer to sell their homes. Either the home is old and they would like to see something new, as long as they get a fair price and as long as they get the affordability of Save our Homes. But I thought I'd throw the other meandering on the table. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Henning, you made a motion. Did you in that motion include whatever -- what particular right-of-way? COMMISSIONER HENNING: The preferred right-of-way. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Preferred right-of-way. COMMISSIONER FIALA: With the Save Our Homes portability, the high appraisal and rent free? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Commissioner, that is going to come back. We need to do the design, we need to go through, give our staff the authorization to negotiate purchases, we need to do eminent domain. There's a long process that will come. Now, as far as the portability of the Save Our Homes under eminent domain, we need to work on our legislators to make that happen. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Commissioner Henning, just to clarify, you're saying, I believe, it's segment number three, proposal number three; is that correct? COMMISSIONER HENNING: Staffs recommendation. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Staffs recommendation. MR. FEDER: Segment number 12, Commissioner. CHAIRMAN HALAS: I'm sorry, okay. So we do have clarification on that then? Okay. Is there any further discussion before I call the question? COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, I'll just throw one more thing in. I think that we all have sat here, but we've all had a great concern. For years now we've been getting letters from angry, angry people in the Estates because there's road congestion, they couldn't get out. Page 128 April 17, 2006 We've been worried sick about how they can get out if there are fires, and we all know that that happens, or hurricanes. And what about ambulances, some child gets hurt and you're trying to rush your child out and you can't even get out of the road. So we're also thinking about the safety of these people. UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE: If they were that concerned, they'd be here tonight. CHAIRMAN HALAS: I just want to say -- I just want to just close by saying that I appreciate each and every one of you that came here tonight -- UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER OF THE AUDIENCE: No, you don't. CHAIRMAN HALAS: -- to basically state your facts and state __ be able to talk in front of us in regards to decisions. This is not an easy decision, I want to tell you. I've lost a lot of sleep over this the last couple of days. We have to make a decision __ (Audience disruption.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: Excuse me, okay? I'm going to -- at this point we'll close it and we'll call the question. If there's no further discussion from my fellow commissioners, all those in favor of the motion that was made by Commissioner Henning and seconded by Commissioner Coy Ie -- and I believe this is segment number 12, this is the staffs recommendation. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye. COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye. CHAIRMAN HALAS: Aye. Opposed, by like sign. (No response.) CHAIRMAN HALAS: It passes unanimously. Thank you very Page 129 April 17, 2006 much. We are adjourned. ***** There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 9:43 p.m. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF SPECIAL DISTRICT UNDER ITS CONTROL 5:".;:--:28/ FRANK HALAS, Chairman TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT REPORTING SERVICE, INC. BY CHERIE' NOTTINGHAM. Page 130