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CLB Minutes 03/15/2006 R March 15,2006 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE CONTRACTOR LICENSING BOARD Naples, Florida March 15, 2006 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Contractor Licensing Board in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: Les Dickson David Beswick Sid Blum Michael Boyd Eric Guite' Lee Horn Richard Joslin Anne Keller William Lewis ALSO PRESENT: Patrick Neale, Attorney for the Board Robert Zachary, Assistant County Attorney Tom Bartoe, Licensing Compliance Officer Michael Ossorio, Licensing Compliance Officer Page 1 AGENDA COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD DATE: MARCH 15,2006 TIME: 9:00 A.M. W. HARMON TURNER BUILDING (ADMINISTRATION BUILDING) COURTHOUSE COMPLEX ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THAT TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED. I. ROLL CALL II. ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS: III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA: IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: DATE: February 15, 2006 V. DISCUSSION: VI. NEW BUSINESS: VII. OLD BUSINESS: VIII PUBLIC HEARINGS: Case # 2006-05 IX. REPORTS: X. NEXT MEETING DATE: Collier County vs George W. Gareau D/B/A The Aluminum Store Wednesday, April 19, 2006 March 15, 2006 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good morning. I'd like to call to order the meeting of the Collier County Contractor Licensing Board for March 15th, 2006. Anybody who would like to appeal a decision of this board will need a verbatim record of what transpires here, which is being made for you. I'd like to start off first with roll call to my right. MR. LEWIS: William Lewis. MR. BLUM: Sidney Blum. MS. KELLER: Anne Keller. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Les Dickson. MR. JOSLIN: Richard Joslin. MR. HORN: Lee Horn. MR. BOYD: Michael Boyd. MR. GUITE': Eric Guite'. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: This is an appropriate time. So that all of you are aware, Mr. Beswick sent a letter to us on March 10th. He has accepted a manager's position in Fort Lauderdale, and he is moving the morning of March 15th. This is David Beswick, our other member. And of course he's moving today. He had some nice comments. He said I really miss serving on such an important board and will miss working with the ladies and gentlemen of this department. You folks taught me a lot about good government, and I will employ that knowledge in my new position. To all of you, thank you for the opportunity and best regards to everybody. David Beswick. And which we hate to lose him. But we do have an opening on the board. What did he fill, Mr. Bartoe? What position? MR. BARTOE: He was consumer. And I notified Sue Filson, I'm sure she'll be advertising. Page 2 March 15, 2006 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. And if anyone's interested in serving on the board, it is a consumer position that has no connection, past or present, with the construction industry. Minutes of the last meeting. Has everyone had a chance to look at them? Go ahead and do those, then I'll come back to Mr. Bartoe. Approval of the minutes? MR. BLUM: So moved. MR. JOSLIN: Second, Joslin. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. So done. The agenda. Mr. Bartoe, any changes? MR. BARTOE: Yeah, I should add for the record, my name's Tom Bartoe, Collier County Licensing Compliance Officer. We have a new addition who is actually an old addition that left and is back. Mr. Guite' decided to apply for the opening that he created when his term expired June 30th. And rumor has it he heard the pay doubled, that's why he came back. And staff has one addition to the agenda. And I don't see that person here, but office staff Maggie told me the man was anxious to get on the agenda. Mr. Jorge Gutierrez last month, the board told him to return with a completed application. He's the gentleman who scored a 74 on the roofing exam and questioned that exam. So I Page 3 March 15, 2006 would like to add him to the agenda and hopefully he will make it in the next few minutes. MR. NEALE: He's probably still driving around the courthouse. MR. BARTOE: Probably. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Even ifhe doesn't, we can handle this in his absence. MR. BARTOE: I believe it's possible, yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I have something from the state that came to me the day after our meeting last month which specifically addressed his contention, and he was absolutely correct, on the test. So that's the only addition? MR. BARTOE: You might want to glance at his packet for a minute. I did not have much time to look at it. We were in a hurry to get it here because of his request. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We will. MR. BARTOE: The only thing missing is insurance, and office staff will not issue a license until we have the proper insurance. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Do I have a motion to approve the agenda as changed? MR. JOSLIN: So moved, Joslin. MR. BLUM: Second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. Done. Discussion, none. New business, none. This is wonderful. Page 4 March 15,2006 Mr. Neale? MR. NEALE: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Should we go -- under old business, you want to go straight to Mr. Gutierrez or wait? MR. NEALE: It's the board's pleasure, but you can certainly go to Mr. Gutierrez at this point. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you'll all take a minute to review the packet real quick. If you'll remember, Mr. Gutierrez was here, he had taken the test for a roofing contractor license, and he was specifically arguing a couple of the questions on the test which he felt he had answered correctly, and took issue with the testing board that their answers were incorrect. And having nothing to do with this case, I got a letter from the state association and state board the very next day. Bill, if you remember, he was talking about valleys. And what happened is the Building Officials Association of Florida addressed this area and the answer that they have on the test is correct, applies to wind zones that are under 100 miles an hour, which there are none in the State of Florida. And his answer was correct for wind zones exceeding 100 miles an hour. So they have since corrected this on the test and his answer was correct on those two questions, which would have put him -- I don't know what the value of each question was, but that would have put him above the 75, which Collier County requires. MR. LEWIS: I think each question is two points. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is it two points? So he would really have a 78 on the test. Business and law was fine, it was in the nineties or something. So if you want to review the packet. You had some other questions on it, didn't you, Bill? No, just that? Page 5 March 15, 2006 MR. LEWIS : Well, just the experience and the test requirements. He wanted us to waive the test requirements. That was due to the fact that he didn't present us any experience other than verbalizing. In the packet he has done so. He's presented us evidence of his experience. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: They did go further in here to say Florida Building Code volume -- Building Volume Chapter 15 would govern in those two questions, which was the valley metal, the width of it. He was correct in his response. So how do you all feel about it? MR. LEWIS: I feel like the man needs to be licensed in Collier County. MR. JOSLIN: I don't think he would have had to come before us in the beginning if this would have happened. MR. LEWIS: That's right, he wouldn't have had to. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I hear a motion to waive the 74 score -- MR. BLUM: So moved. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- in this particular case? MS. KELLER: Do we need to do that, if the score's going to be revised? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, they think we do. MR. NEALE: They probably won't revise his score. They tend not to admit error. So we probably -- I would suggest that the board still do the waiver, even though, you know, ifhe took the test today it would be correct. But they're not going to go back and probably change the scores on a previous test. MR. JOSLIN: I second Mr. Blum's motion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So we have a motion to approve or waive the 74 as a passing grade. Any discussion? (No response.) Page 6 March 15, 2006 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (N 0 response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Done. Takes care of old business. He'll be thrilled when he walks in. I'm going to postpone this letter we got until the end of the meeting. With that, we'll go into public hearings. Case No. 2006-05, Collier County versus George W. Gareau -- I'm probably saying that incorrectly, I apologize -- d/b/a, The Aluminum Store. Is everybody present? Mr. Zachary, are you going to handle this, or is Michael going to? MR. ZACHARY: No, I think I'll just let Mr. Ossorio present his case, since he is the petitioner. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Just let me give you a brief outline of how this is handled. We'll start with Mr. Ossorio making an opening statement. How do you say -- Mr. Gareau, you'll be then allowed to make an opening statement, very brief. And then the county will present their case. You will be able to ask questions of any witnesses that the county brings. Once they finish -- and it's informal, it's quasi judicial. Once they finish then you'll be able to present your case. There will be a Page 7 March 15,2006 closing statement by both of you. Then we will close the public hearing. Basically you're done. But we will deliberate verbally. You can hear everything we say. And that's how the case will run. Okay? Mr. Ossorio? MR.OSSORIO: Good morning, Mr. Chairman. For the record, Michael Ossorio, Collier County Contractor Licensing Compliance Officer. At this time I would like to go ahead and submit Exhibit -- composite Exhibit A on the record. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I have a motion to do that? MR. JOSLIN: So moved, Joslin. MR. BLUM: Second, Blum. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. MR.OSSORIO: And I'd like to be sworn in. (Speaker was duly sworn.) MR. OSSORIO: And before we get started, I'd like to go ahead and have -- recognize one of our finest employees, Gary Harrison. He is the chief structural inspector for Collier County Building Department. He's in the blue. And he took Jeffs position. And if you have any questions for him, he's available in the next few minutes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Could I -- Mr. Gutierrez? MR. NEALE: That's not him. Page 8 March 15, 2006 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's not him? Okay, never mind. Go ahead. MR. OSSORIO: Just for quick housekeeping, I believe Mr. Gareau from The Aluminum Store does want to stipulate on record that he understands that he violated the section of 4.18, proceeding on the job without obtaining applicable building permits, and he wishes to have no defense. That's something that maybe we can discuss before proceeding to the case. Ifnot, then the county's ready to proceed. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Neale? MR. NEALE: He can certainly do that, if he wishes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I mean, if that's the case, there's no sense going through this. MR. NEALE: No. I mean, ifhe's willing to stipulate that, then you can go directly to the penalty phase. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Gutierrez (sic.), if you would come up to this podium, please? MR. NEALE: Gareau. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I got you confused with the other. I need for you to state your name and then I'll have you sworn in, SIr. MR. GAREAU: George Gareau. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Are you wanting to do that, stipulate that you -- MR. GAREAU: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- are in violation of that? MR. GAREAU: Yes. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Dickson, for the record, I would like to have Mr. Gareau go ahead and testify to the fact that what he did Page 9 March 15,2006 on that particular day did require building permits, so at least we'll let him recant his story of what happened, what transpired. So we can get that on the record. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, go ahead. MR. GAREAU: We were installing replacement windows at this house. I had a contract for that. And also I had a contract for storm shutters. And I hadn't pulled the permit yet. We tended to put them in together and I didn't have my -- MR. LEWIS: Excuse me, as a point of order, we need to get him sworn in. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We did. MR. LEWIS: You did? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes. MR. LEWIS: My apologies. MR. GAREAU: I started ahead of the permit. Basically the job was in two phases. I have the storm panels on order. They're still not In. I have since obtained permits for both the windows and the storm panels. I have permits for it now. That's basically it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Just an oversight? You've never had this problem before? MR. GAREAU: No. 21 years in business, same location, and I'm the first time here. MR. OSSORIO: Well, this is the first time in the licensing board, but you've been in my office several times. MR. GAREAU: I was in your office a few years ago, yes. MR. JOSLIN: The same offense? MR.OSSORIO: We had approximately -- we looked on line today and we had about six cases: Three citations and a couple of verbal warnings about not pulling building permits. MR. BLUM: What's the most recent indiscretion? Page 10 March 15, 2006 MR. BARTOE: I had one last month. And that permit is now applied for. And as Mr. Ossorio said, that was on my part a verbal warning. No citation issued on that one. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So he's paid double permit fees a couple of times; is that safe to assume? MR. BARTOE: Correct. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. And we just want to bring this home? MR. JOSLIN: I'd like to hear, just for the record, is there a reason that these six times you have been cited why you haven't pulled -- MR. GAREAU: I don't know how far back they've gone for the six times. I've had the company for 10 years and I worked for the same company 11 years before that. I don't know how far -- it's been in my name since 1996, and I don't know how far back the six go. MR. OSSORIO: I believe it starts sometime in '02. There was an issue over in an RV park, and I'm sure Mr. Gareau probably doesn't want to get into something that's out of the scope of what we're here to today, but there were some issues, and we addressed them at the time sometime in '02. And then it's been an ongoing problem in '06, so -- MR. JOSLIN: Still doesn't answer the question, though. Is there some reason that you have that you are not going to pull permits before you do the work? MR. GAREAU: No. I pull permits every week. I don't know if -- in the case of the mobile home work, I didn't think they required a permit. They were small enclosures underneath. They were portable. They were takedown, what you call temporary underneath the canvas awning. There was three of those and I didn't think they needed a permit. I don't know what the other -- I know what Tom's case is, but I don't know what all six are. Page 11 March 15, 2006 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Gutierrez? MR. GUTIERREZ: Yes, sir? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Come here, I'll give you this. MR. GUTIERREZ: Sorry I'm late, traffic was murder and I live out in the Estates. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I enjoy getting to see your kids. That came to my office the day after our meeting. You're welcome to take that with you. That's why it was done so quickly. MR. GUTIERREZ: I appreciate it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good luck to you. Sorry for the interruption. So what do you want to -- what's your recommendation? MR. OSSORIO: Recommendation would be probation for one year and a $2,000 penalty. That's the county's recommendation. It's been confirmed with Mr. Gareau as well. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You're in agreement with that? MR. GAREAU: Yes. MR. BLUM: Mr. Dickson? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes. MR. BLUM: The homeowner, are there any complaints from the homeowner? Was the work done okay, she paid her bills, she's happy with the price, she's happy with the job? MR. OSSORIO: I don't know if she's happy with the job, but we did communicate and she's satisfied at this time with The Aluminum Store. I haven't heard any complaints from the homeowner, no. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: This is probably one of the easiest cases we've had. MR. NEALE: Yeah, I mean, I could go through the whole charge to the board and everything and penalty phase, but the board's heard it a number of times. You understand what your charge is and what your responsibilities are. Page 12 March 15,2006 The board will need to vote first to find him in violation and then vote on the penalty. So those two steps still need to be taken. But because he's admitted liability, finding him in violation is relatively simple, and then it's the board's prerogative to decide on penalty. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any more comments? MR. GAREAU: No, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, go ahead and take a seat. Do I hear a -- does anyone have any further questions? (N 0 response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I hear a motion to close public hearing? MR. BLUM: So moved. MR. JOSLIN: Second, Joslin. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. Opposed? (N 0 response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, so what we need to do, same routine that you're used to. First thing is the charge. I need a motion on the charge and we'll address that and then go into the penalty phase. MR. BLUM: I make a motion that we accept the county's recommendation on the charge as a guilty plea. Page 13 March 15,2006 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, it probably came from the license holder that he -- MR. BLUM: Yeah, the license holder admits culpability and that he wishes to plead guilty. MR. JOSLIN: I'll second the motion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. Collier County Contracting Board, Licensing Board, real quick, just some -- Board of Collier County Commissioners as the Petitioner versus George Gareau, d/b/a The Aluminum Store, Case No. 2006- 05, license number 18108. This cause came before public hearing on March 15th, 2006 before the Contractor Licensing Board for consideration of the complaint filed against George Gareau. Service of the complaint was made by certified mail in accordance with Ordinance No. 90-105, as amended. Board, having heard testimony under oath, receiving evidence, heard arguments to all appropriate matters, thereupon issues its findings of fact, conclusion of law and order the board as follows: Finding of fact that, George Gareau -- I got it, maybe; we'll see the next time I read it -- is the holder of record of certificate of competency No. 18108. Number two, that the Board of Collier County Commissioners of Page 14 March 15,2006 Collier County, Florida is the complainant in this matter. That the board has jurisdiction of the respondent. And that Mr. Gareau was present -- how did I do -- and was not represented by counsel. Number four, all notices required by Ordinance No. 90-105, as amended, have been properly issued. Allegations of fact as set forth in the administrative complaint are approved and adopted and incorporated in as findings of fact. Count -- one count, 4.1.8, proceeding on any job without obtaining permits or inspections from the city building and zoning division or the county building review and permitting department. Based upon the order of the board, based upon the foregoing findings of fact pursuant to the authority granted in Chapter 489, Florida Statutes, by a vote of 8-0, was found in violation of this charge. Mr. Neale, do we need to read what's available to us, or you think we can skip that? MR. NEALE: I think you can just skip and go to the penalty phase. MR.OSSORIO: Mr. Dickson, just to clarify. You said 4.1.8. It's 4.1.18. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you, sir. 4.1.18, yes. Okay, penalty phase. Discussion. MR. JOSLIN: I think we ought to take staffs recommendation. And Mr. Gareau's already agreed to it. MS. KELLER: Can you repeat the staff recommendation? MR. JOSLIN: It's a $2,000 fine. MS. KELLER: Can I just ask a question? When you don't pull a permit and you go in to pull it after the fact, you said something about double fees? MR.OSSORIO: There is a process in the building department that when a contractor does not pull a building permit, or homeowner Page 15 March 15,2006 for that matter that doesn't pull the necessary requirements under the building code -- and if Gary Harrison was here he could probably elaborate a little more about the fees -- but you do pay four times the amount. So if the permit was $100, you might pay 400. I don't think he was issued four times the amount of this permit. We did not red flag him into the system, so he is not paying four times the amount of this permit. MS. KELLER: And what would this permit cost? MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Gareau, can you elaborate on what permits cost for glass and glazing? MR. GAREAU: They're about $53 each. Fifty-three for the replacement of windows and 53 for the shutters. They were express permits. MR. OSSORIO: So you're talking about $53 for a building permit, which he has paid. He didn't pay four times the amount. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Don't they have express permits or coupon books for him? MR. OSSORIO: I don't think for glass and glazing they do, no, because -- MR. BLUM: He said -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Express is different. MR. OSSORIO: It's different. Because I believe on these you still have to have a notice of commencement. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because they're over 2,500. MR.OSSORIO: Yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. Because several of us are allowed to buy coupon books. MR. OSSORIO: Yeah, roofers and air conditioning, that's part of the realm of coupons. MR. JOSLIN: Roofers can do that? We've got to put a stop to that. Page 16 March 15,2006 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you stop hurricanes, I'll be happy. Any other discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I need a motion, if there isn't. MR. JOSLIN: I'll make the motion that we, having found Mr. Gareau guilty of the charge, that he be placed on one year probation, that he be fined $2,000 to be paid back within 30 days. MR. BLUM: I'll second it, Blum. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any further discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. Opposed? (N 0 response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Done. One more bit of homework here. Based upon the foregoing findings of fact, conclusions of law and pursuant to our authority in 489, Florida Statute, Collier County Ordinance No. 90-105 by a vote of 8-0, it is hereby ordered that the following disciplinary sanctions and related order are hereby imposed upon the holder of Contractor Certificate of Competency No. 10108: Number one, probation for one year for his license. Number two, a $2,000 fine to be paid within 30 days. And that's it. Page 1 7 March 15, 2006 Okay, Mr. Gareau? MR. GAREAU: Yes. MR. BLUM: Can I ask a question of Mr. Ossorio? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes, go ahead. MR. BLUM: Michael? MR.OSSORIO: Yes, sir. MR. BLUM: Okay, he's on probation for two years. MS. KELLER: One year. MR. BLUM: One year, excuse me, one year. In the event that he's cited for failing to pull a permit again, what would be the process? MR. OSSORIO: He immediately goes in front of the licensing board for sanctions. MS. KELLER: You don't want to come back. MR. JOSLIN: That's right, don't come back. MR. GAREAU: I understand. MR. BLUM: That's why I asked the question. MR.OSSORIO: This company's been in town for a long time, and I'm sure that Mr. Gareau is still going to be in business for many years to come. This is not a pound of flesh. This is more of we're trying to be more consistent how we conduct our business down in the office referencing contractors due to the hurricane, because there are a lot of contractors out there that are bypassing the notice of commencements and are not pulling building permits. Because it's a lot easier just to order the materials and go on the job and get it done. And it seems to be a recurring problem. So this is maybe one of many this year. Roofers are included. MR. JOSLIN: Filing a notice of commencement, though, doesn't take but probably 30 minutes of time. Page 18 March 15, 2006 MR. OSSORIO: No. But getting the homeowner together, signing, explaining what the notice of commencement is, going in front of the courthouse and getting it recorded, it's a process. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: While we're on this subject, let me bring something up. Because I'm guilty of this. I've been on the board for 17 years. For the longest time -- and this goes back to I think even before when you were there, Tom -- there was an understanding when after Hurricane Andrew that there was a threshold of $750. And later the building department raised that threshold to $1,000. And a majority of contractors in this townhave been working under that assumption that minor repairs not exceeding $1,000 are not required to have a permit. Otherwise, you'd be doing 15 permits a day. Where's the county stand on that? MR. OSSORIO: I believe it's going to be up to the building director. We do bring to his attention some cases that meet that threshold, over $1,000. But I think in the building code it does stipulate that if it's considered repair work, minor, inconsequential, no matter what the number of the money is or the value, no permit is required. Obviously if you're doing $1,000 for a contractor, price is not much. You don't get a lot of bang for your buck for $1,000. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, I've even used coupons on minor repairs, because it's so ambiguous. For example, Marco Island, they require no permits for hurricane repairs. For repairs. MR.OSSORIO: We have the same stipulation for the county. If it's screen enclosures less than 50 percent damage, no permit's required. Or if you're repairing the shingles, no permit's required. But if you're actually doing a reroof, that's requires an inspection. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Of course. MR. OSSORIO: There's an inspection process. So we use a Page 19 March 15,2006 variety of different avenues. One would be does it require inspection, and if so, then yes, it requires a building permit. MR. NEALE: And Marco Island, screen enclosure is 25 percent or less, apparently. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So if it's just repair of hurricane damage, there is no minor repair permit required. MR. OSSORIO: That's correct. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Not really a threshold. MR.OSSORIO: No, I think that $1,000 comes from - I think it's in the -- it's in our administrative code, which is adopted by the Board of County Commissioners in Bill Hammond's office. I can get that for the next meeting so we can all take a look at it. I wish Gary Harrison was still here, then he could shoot from the hip with it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It would be nice to, because there's so much confusion about it. I've put coupons on repairs that were over $1,000, and what you're saying is I didn't need to do that. MR. OSSORIO: If it's repairs and it's minor, inconsequential, it doesn't require a building permit, no permit's required. I don't think we would ever bring a roofer in front of the licensing board or state board for reshingling half a house from hurricane damage. But if you stripped it down to the sheeting and get to notice of commencement, that requires a roofing progress, so we want to make sure that permit gets done. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I would like to clear that up at the next meeting, if you don't mind. MR.OSSORIO: No problem. We'll have it at the next meeting. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Very good. We thank you for your time, sir. Wish you well. At this time, do you want to go into this letter that we've received, Mr. Bartoe, from -- Page 20 March 15, 2006 MR. BARTOE: I don't want to go into it at all. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You don't? MR. BARTOE: Mr. Balzano says it's completely false. And Mr. Balzano handled the whole thing, so I can't answer for him. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It is completely false. Then that's all I need to hear. Chief inspector says it's completely false, then I'm not going to address it. Enough said. Any other business? MR. BARTOE: We have to start process of amending the ordinance, having some workshops. I think Mr. Neale brought that up last year. And we have a few things that have to be changed in it. We have -- I'm sure Mr. Neale has some things that have to be brought up to date to coincide with the state. We have -- Board of County Commissioners wants us to work on a change on restitution, which Mr. Zachary has been working on. And Mr. Neale, I'm assuming we can hold a workshop during a regular meeting, if we have a short one like this. MR. NEALE: Yeah, that would be a very good time to do it, frankly, is if we have a short agenda is to do it during a regular board meeting. Just make sure that the notice is adequately given that this is going to be a workshop as well. Because I have a feeling we're going to have contractors and maybe even the public that would want to comment on certain areas that the board may be reviewing. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What's the time frame again? MR. BARTOE: There's no time frame. This ordinance was last done in 2002, so I'm sure we have some changes. I remember one that I mentioned we have to look at is changing our approved testing agencies, which the board has already added one. And each test as a test and a trade, "X" amount of hours long and a one-hour business and law test. And we're going to eliminate the hours because of the different tests, different companies have Page 21 March 15, 2006 different lengths to their tests and the hours are not required in there, as they currently are. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Dickson, just to clarify real quick, we did -- contractors licensing office did send a memo to the building director, letting him know that we are going to start amending the ordinance and we're going to have a meeting with them in a couple of days. But we want to see it somewhat finished before the hurricane season starts. Sometime in the next three or four months. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What specific areas -- and Lisa, I'm going to have you come up, if you would, in a minute. What specific areas do we need to address so that contractors in those fields are aware this is going to happen? What do you know that we need to get into? MR. BAR TOE: In specific trades, I know of nothing. Mr. Neale, is there anything to address as far as changes to comply with the state? MR. NEALE: There have been some changes in 489, and particularly the one that we've run into a few times here in hearings, is the change in the amount of fines that can be levied by the board. The board now can levy fines up to 10,000, as opposed to 5,000. So that needs to be put in there. What I would suggest, just as it may be easier to do is that we postpone doing an ordinance review until after legislative session is over this year. Just simply because they always monkey around with 489 somehow, even if it may be trivial. So legislature is in session right now. They're going to be in session for another 60 days, or roughly 60 days, 45 days. So what I would suggest is that we not do an ordinance review until after legislative session is over so that we can take into account all the changes they make in this session, rather than sort of doing last year's session and then having to jump right back into it again in three Page 22 March 15,2006 months and say ah, here's some more changes. So that would be my only suggestion. I don't know how the board feels. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, because within 30 days, I get a list of everything they tweaked in 489 -- MR. NEALE: Right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- as far as building's concerned. MR. NEALE: So that's -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And they're already talking about a couple of items because of the -- MR. NEALE: Hurricane issues. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- influx of hurricanes. MR. NEALE: So, you know, that's my only suggestion to the board is that you wait until after the session's over. They never take up 489 issues in special session, so it will be done at the end of the regular session. And then the Governor has a period of time to sign off on them. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Don't they normally close the end of May? MR. NEALE: Yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So the earliest we could do this is June or July? MR. NEALE: Yeah, probably the June meeting would be a good one to do it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And batten the hatches down for August and September, right? Or October this year. Lisa, do you mind coming up? I want everyone to meet you. Tell her who you are and what you do. MS. KOEHLER: Lisa Koehler, and I am the public information coordinator for the community development and environmental services division. Page 23 March 15, 2006 And I have been attending your meetings because I'm writing press releases about your decisions, because we've been getting a lot of attention at our Board of County Commissioners meetings lately about contractors and some of the problems that homeowners have been having with contractors. So I've just been trying to get more interest in the media and out to the public about contractor licensing, about what staff does that we can -- you know, that people need to check with our office first before hiring a contractor, make sure they're licensed. They can check our files to see if there's been past complaints, if they'd had problems pulling permits or whatever, sort of kind of acting like the Better Business Bureau, if you will. So that is why I've been attending your meetings, so I can get more information to put out to the public. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And the letter you put out on -- what was the name of the company that did the -- we had last month with the hurricane shutters? MS. KOEHLER: Oh, the press release, you mean? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. What was the name of that company? MR. OSSORIO: Tropical Shield. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Tropical Shield out of Fort Myers. Which I notice you got that press release on the front page of the business section. Nice job. MS. KOEHLER: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because we know there's tons of people out there that have made deposits that are still waiting for Tropical Shield to show up, and they're never going to show up. And their money is gone. MS. KELLER: Were there any more people that responded? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I don't know. Did you have any Page 24 March 15,2006 response from people? MS. KOEHLER: I did not. But I don't know if you guys did. MR. BARTOE: No. It was amazing, I did not. MR. OSSORIO: We did receive complaints from Fort Myers, and I know that the City of Fort Myers is taking our findings of facts and proceeding against his license in Fort Myers. So we were the forefront of actually doing what we needed to do with Tropical Shield first. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is the Florida Department of Law Enforcement pursuing felony charges; do you know that? MR. OSSORIO: I don't know that. MR. BARTOE: Do not know. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And there's countless cases of grand fraud. MR. OSSORIO: It was a good point that you made last meeting referencing when he closed his business and when he took deposits. And that was actually brought to their attention by our office about that. So I know that they are looking into it. I can't specify who and what division up there in Fort Myers, but that's going to happen. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: In 17 years I've never seen a case like that before, fortunately, in the county. So I just don't want it to happen again. MR. JOSLIN: I have one quick question, Lisa. Does this -- this is in regard to you as far as the television media. When this board meeting airs, I know it airs in the morning when we are actually live. MS. KOEHLER: Right. MR. JOSLIN: Does it air in the evening at all? MS. KOEHLER: I think they do replay the meetings. MR. JOSLIN: Because I got a lot of response when we were on television in the evening. And a lot of people called. Page 25 March 15,2006 MS. KELLER: That was a special thing because yeah, we got bumped. I don't know if it does replay. MS. KOEHLER: I think it depends on what else, you know, that our staff has got going, other meetings, other projects. You know, their schedule is not -- isn't always consistent on a weekly basis as far as what's happening and what's replaying. So if they've got time to fill, they'll replay this meeting. Are you wanting them to play it more often? MR. JOSLIN: I think-- MS. KOEHLER: Because I can certainly put that request in. MR. JOSLIN: You know, reviewing what we actually do and the Board of County Commissioners are actually looking at us, then I would think it might not be a bad idea. If it was to show that the public would actually see in the evening time when they're home and off work. MS. KOEHLER: The other thing, I think at not yesterday's meeting but the Board of County Commissioners meeting prior to that, Commissioner Henning had asked if we are putting the findings -- or not necessarily the findings, I'm sorry - the decisions that you all make against contractors, if we're putting those on our web page. He asked that we do that. We've got other information about contractor licensing on our web page, but he has asked that we start listing the contractors that are being found guilty on the web page so that consumers can go and see the decisions that you all are making. So I think that's going to be added as well. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But the thing I find that I think needs corrected in dealing with the public every day and different customers that have had problems or have been taken, the public doesn't know about this board. They go out and hire an attorney, or they take their -- they lick their wounds and suffer the financial loss. The thing that County Commission I don't think understands Page 26 March 15,2006 is the fact, the number of complaints that the contractor licensing investigators get, which is somewhere -- you get 400 plus calls a month? And-- MS. KOEHLER: They get a monthly report from staff on -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: On what they do? MS. KOEHLER: On the complaints coming in, citations and restitution. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That they have, what are we, five or six investigators now? MR. BARTOE: Four, and a supervisor. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Four and a supervisor. But we have five investigators that offer the service when something has gone wrong. MS. KOEHLER: Absolutely. It's a great service. And you're right, I don't think a lot of folks know that we're there to help them. So we're trying to get more information out to let people know. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Out of those 400 calls, we maybe get one or two cases a month before the board. Which means they resolved all the rest of them -- MS. KOEHLER: That's right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- prior to them even coming before this board. They do a phenomenal job. MR. NEALE: What I might suggest to the board and to staff for your approval is the report that's given to the Board of County Commissioners which lists number of citations and all that, that it be also given to this board as part of the monthly meeting for this board. Because people do watch these telecasts and they may not watch the County Commission telecast, or the County Commission, when it's not -- you know, it's in their packet, it's not necessarily put up there. MS. KOEHLER: Right, they get it via e-mail. MR. NEALE: So here, if it was given potentially verbally Page 27 March 15, 2006 at the meeting, people would actually hear that, you know, the contractor licensing staff has written, you know, 100 citations this month and that they've fielded 450 complaint calls. So that number would actually be out there in the public and then Lisa could include it in her press -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I would love that. MS. KOEHLER: It's a great idea. I mean, the guys do a fabulous job. They've been tracking I think since 1980 something, Tom? MR. BARTOE: '86, I believe. MS. KOEHLER: '86, over a million dollars back to the citizens of Collier County from contractors. I think that's just -- it's incredible. It's great work. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, we go through a major hurricane and immediately there's signs posted at every entrance into Collier County that it's a felony to work without a license in the State of Florida, which it is. And I've worked other counties with hurricanes, and we didn't have any problems except maybe one or two cases. And I would love to see that report monthly so that we're aware of it. MR. NEALE: And that way the public could actually hear it, too. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, I would read it. But no, the staff is doing a wonderful job. So they should be commended and not criticized. MS. KOEHLER: I agree completely. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's a pleasure to have you here. MS. KOEHLER: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I appreciate the article last month on the one crook we did have. But he was out of Lee County. Page 28 March 15,2006 MR. NEALE: And I have to admit, I did hear -- and I have to say that another praise for the job the public information office is doing is I've heard reports of what this board does on WGCU on NBR on their local news on the radio. So they're picking it up, too. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And we're basically contractors, six contractors, three consumers. And we're not here to take - we don't want to take our fellow contractors' licenses away. But we also don't want crooks in this county or people that won't stand behind their work. And that won't be tolerated in Collier County. Thank you agaIn. MS. KOEHLER: You're welcome. MR. BARTOE: And I believe if we get lucky at a workshop, maybe one workshop will take care of it. Right, Mr. Neale? MR. NEALE: I think it should. There's not a huge number of changes, but there's a lot. And if we can wait until after legislative session, then we can incorporate everything from the last couple of sessions, get it all squared away. There's a couple of tweaking area I think Mr. Zachary and I would like to see done to clarify some issues, so -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, great. MR. BARTOE: I know in the past there have been some ordinance amendments that have taken months and months and months. But hopefully we'll get a lot done. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Anybody have anything else? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Record short meeting. Wonderful. Nice to have you back. MR. GUITE': Thank you, it's good to be back. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's like a good glove. It's like you just came right back in. Good to have you back. If anybody doesn't have anything else, I'll entertain a motion. Page 29 March 15,2006 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Adjourned, thank you. ***** There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 9:44 a.m. COLLIER COUNTY LICENSING BOARD LES DICKSON, CHAIRMAN Transcript prepared on behalf of Gregory Court Reporting Service, Inc., by Cherie' R. Nottingham Page 30