CLB Minutes 03/15/2006 R
March 15,2006
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
CONTRACTOR LICENSING BOARD
Naples, Florida
March 15, 2006
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Contractor Licensing Board
in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein,
met on this date at 9:00 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building
"F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the
following members present:
CHAIRMAN:
Les Dickson
David Beswick
Sid Blum
Michael Boyd
Eric Guite'
Lee Horn
Richard Joslin
Anne Keller
William Lewis
ALSO PRESENT:
Patrick Neale, Attorney for the Board
Robert Zachary, Assistant County Attorney
Tom Bartoe, Licensing Compliance Officer
Michael Ossorio, Licensing Compliance Officer
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AGENDA
COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD
DATE: MARCH 15,2006
TIME: 9:00 A.M.
W. HARMON TURNER BUILDING
(ADMINISTRATION BUILDING)
COURTHOUSE COMPLEX
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE
PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM
RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THAT TESTIMONY AND
EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
I. ROLL CALL
II. ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS:
III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
DATE: February 15, 2006
V. DISCUSSION:
VI. NEW BUSINESS:
VII. OLD BUSINESS:
VIII PUBLIC HEARINGS:
Case # 2006-05
IX. REPORTS:
X. NEXT MEETING DATE:
Collier County vs George W. Gareau
D/B/A The Aluminum Store
Wednesday, April 19, 2006
March 15, 2006
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good morning. I'd like to call to
order the meeting of the Collier County Contractor Licensing Board
for March 15th, 2006.
Anybody who would like to appeal a decision of this board will
need a verbatim record of what transpires here, which is being made
for you.
I'd like to start off first with roll call to my right.
MR. LEWIS: William Lewis.
MR. BLUM: Sidney Blum.
MS. KELLER: Anne Keller.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Les Dickson.
MR. JOSLIN: Richard Joslin.
MR. HORN: Lee Horn.
MR. BOYD: Michael Boyd.
MR. GUITE': Eric Guite'.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: This is an appropriate time. So that
all of you are aware, Mr. Beswick sent a letter to us on March 10th.
He has accepted a manager's position in Fort Lauderdale, and he is
moving the morning of March 15th. This is David Beswick, our
other member. And of course he's moving today.
He had some nice comments. He said I really miss serving on
such an important board and will miss working with the ladies and
gentlemen of this department. You folks taught me a lot about good
government, and I will employ that knowledge in my new position.
To all of you, thank you for the opportunity and best regards to
everybody. David Beswick.
And which we hate to lose him. But we do have an opening on
the board.
What did he fill, Mr. Bartoe? What position?
MR. BARTOE: He was consumer. And I notified Sue Filson,
I'm sure she'll be advertising.
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March 15, 2006
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. And if anyone's interested in
serving on the board, it is a consumer position that has no connection,
past or present, with the construction industry.
Minutes of the last meeting. Has everyone had a chance to look
at them? Go ahead and do those, then I'll come back to Mr. Bartoe.
Approval of the minutes?
MR. BLUM: So moved.
MR. JOSLIN: Second, Joslin.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor?
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MS. KELLER: Aye.
MR. JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
So done.
The agenda. Mr. Bartoe, any changes?
MR. BARTOE: Yeah, I should add for the record, my name's
Tom Bartoe, Collier County Licensing Compliance Officer.
We have a new addition who is actually an old addition that left
and is back. Mr. Guite' decided to apply for the opening that he
created when his term expired June 30th. And rumor has it he heard
the pay doubled, that's why he came back.
And staff has one addition to the agenda. And I don't see that
person here, but office staff Maggie told me the man was anxious to
get on the agenda. Mr. Jorge Gutierrez last month, the board told him
to return with a completed application. He's the gentleman who
scored a 74 on the roofing exam and questioned that exam. So I
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March 15, 2006
would like to add him to the agenda and hopefully he will make it in
the next few minutes.
MR. NEALE: He's probably still driving around the courthouse.
MR. BARTOE: Probably.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Even ifhe doesn't, we can handle this
in his absence.
MR. BARTOE: I believe it's possible, yes.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I have something from the state that
came to me the day after our meeting last month which specifically
addressed his contention, and he was absolutely correct, on the test.
So that's the only addition?
MR. BARTOE: You might want to glance at his packet for a
minute. I did not have much time to look at it. We were in a hurry to
get it here because of his request.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We will.
MR. BARTOE: The only thing missing is insurance, and office
staff will not issue a license until we have the proper insurance.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Do I have a motion to approve
the agenda as changed?
MR. JOSLIN: So moved, Joslin.
MR. BLUM: Second.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor?
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MS. KELLER: Aye.
MR. JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. Done.
Discussion, none. New business, none. This is wonderful.
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March 15,2006
Mr. Neale?
MR. NEALE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Should we go -- under old business,
you want to go straight to Mr. Gutierrez or wait?
MR. NEALE: It's the board's pleasure, but you can certainly go
to Mr. Gutierrez at this point.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you'll all take a minute to review
the packet real quick. If you'll remember, Mr. Gutierrez was here, he
had taken the test for a roofing contractor license, and he was
specifically arguing a couple of the questions on the test which he felt
he had answered correctly, and took issue with the testing board that
their answers were incorrect.
And having nothing to do with this case, I got a letter from the
state association and state board the very next day.
Bill, if you remember, he was talking about valleys.
And what happened is the Building Officials Association of
Florida addressed this area and the answer that they have on the test
is correct, applies to wind zones that are under 100 miles an hour,
which there are none in the State of Florida. And his answer was
correct for wind zones exceeding 100 miles an hour.
So they have since corrected this on the test and his answer was
correct on those two questions, which would have put him -- I don't
know what the value of each question was, but that would have put
him above the 75, which Collier County requires.
MR. LEWIS: I think each question is two points.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is it two points? So he would really
have a 78 on the test. Business and law was fine, it was in the
nineties or something. So if you want to review the packet.
You had some other questions on it, didn't you, Bill? No,
just that?
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March 15, 2006
MR. LEWIS : Well, just the experience and the test
requirements. He wanted us to waive the test requirements. That
was due to the fact that he didn't present us any experience other than
verbalizing. In the packet he has done so. He's presented us
evidence of his experience.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: They did go further in here to say
Florida Building Code volume -- Building Volume Chapter 15 would
govern in those two questions, which was the valley metal, the width
of it. He was correct in his response.
So how do you all feel about it?
MR. LEWIS: I feel like the man needs to be licensed in Collier
County.
MR. JOSLIN: I don't think he would have had to come before us
in the beginning if this would have happened.
MR. LEWIS: That's right, he wouldn't have had to.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I hear a motion to waive the 74
score --
MR. BLUM: So moved.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- in this particular case?
MS. KELLER: Do we need to do that, if the score's going to be
revised?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, they think we do.
MR. NEALE: They probably won't revise his score. They tend
not to admit error. So we probably -- I would suggest that the board
still do the waiver, even though, you know, ifhe took the test today it
would be correct. But they're not going to go back and probably
change the scores on a previous test.
MR. JOSLIN: I second Mr. Blum's motion.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So we have a motion to approve or
waive the 74 as a passing grade. Any discussion?
(No response.)
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March 15, 2006
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor?
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MS. KELLER: Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
MR. JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed?
(N 0 response.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Done. Takes care of old business.
He'll be thrilled when he walks in.
I'm going to postpone this letter we got until the end of the
meeting.
With that, we'll go into public hearings. Case No. 2006-05,
Collier County versus George W. Gareau -- I'm probably saying that
incorrectly, I apologize -- d/b/a, The Aluminum Store.
Is everybody present?
Mr. Zachary, are you going to handle this, or is Michael going
to?
MR. ZACHARY: No, I think I'll just let Mr. Ossorio present his
case, since he is the petitioner.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Just let me give you a brief outline of
how this is handled. We'll start with Mr. Ossorio making an opening
statement. How do you say -- Mr. Gareau, you'll be then allowed to
make an opening statement, very brief. And then the county will
present their case. You will be able to ask questions of any witnesses
that the county brings.
Once they finish -- and it's informal, it's quasi judicial. Once
they finish then you'll be able to present your case. There will be a
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March 15,2006
closing statement by both of you. Then we will close the public
hearing. Basically you're done. But we will deliberate verbally. You
can hear everything we say. And that's how the case will run. Okay?
Mr. Ossorio?
MR.OSSORIO: Good morning, Mr. Chairman. For the record,
Michael Ossorio, Collier County Contractor Licensing Compliance
Officer.
At this time I would like to go ahead and submit Exhibit --
composite Exhibit A on the record.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I have a motion to do that?
MR. JOSLIN: So moved, Joslin.
MR. BLUM: Second, Blum.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor?
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MS. KELLER: Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
MR. JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
MR.OSSORIO: And I'd like to be sworn in.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MR. OSSORIO: And before we get started, I'd like to go ahead
and have -- recognize one of our finest employees, Gary Harrison.
He is the chief structural inspector for Collier County Building
Department. He's in the blue. And he took Jeffs position. And if
you have any questions for him, he's available in the next few
minutes.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Could I -- Mr. Gutierrez?
MR. NEALE: That's not him.
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March 15, 2006
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's not him? Okay, never mind.
Go ahead.
MR. OSSORIO: Just for quick housekeeping, I believe Mr.
Gareau from The Aluminum Store does want to stipulate on record
that he understands that he violated the section of 4.18, proceeding on
the job without obtaining applicable building permits, and he wishes
to have no defense. That's something that maybe we can discuss
before proceeding to the case. Ifnot, then the county's ready to
proceed.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Neale?
MR. NEALE: He can certainly do that, if he wishes.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I mean, if that's the case, there's no
sense going through this.
MR. NEALE: No. I mean, ifhe's willing to stipulate that, then
you can go directly to the penalty phase.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Gutierrez (sic.), if you would
come up to this podium, please?
MR. NEALE: Gareau.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I got you confused with the other.
I need for you to state your name and then I'll have you sworn in,
SIr.
MR. GAREAU: George Gareau.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Are you wanting to do that, stipulate
that you --
MR. GAREAU: Yes.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- are in violation of that?
MR. GAREAU: Yes.
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Dickson, for the record, I would like to
have Mr. Gareau go ahead and testify to the fact that what he did
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March 15,2006
on that particular day did require building permits, so at least we'll let
him recant his story of what happened, what transpired. So we can
get that on the record.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, go ahead.
MR. GAREAU: We were installing replacement windows at
this house. I had a contract for that. And also I had a contract for
storm shutters. And I hadn't pulled the permit yet. We tended to put
them in together and I didn't have my --
MR. LEWIS: Excuse me, as a point of order, we need to get
him sworn in.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We did.
MR. LEWIS: You did?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes.
MR. LEWIS: My apologies.
MR. GAREAU: I started ahead of the permit. Basically the job
was in two phases. I have the storm panels on order. They're still not
In.
I have since obtained permits for both the windows and the storm
panels. I have permits for it now. That's basically it.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Just an oversight? You've
never had this problem before?
MR. GAREAU: No. 21 years in business, same location, and
I'm the first time here.
MR. OSSORIO: Well, this is the first time in the licensing
board, but you've been in my office several times.
MR. GAREAU: I was in your office a few years ago, yes.
MR. JOSLIN: The same offense?
MR.OSSORIO: We had approximately -- we looked on line
today and we had about six cases: Three citations and a couple
of verbal warnings about not pulling building permits.
MR. BLUM: What's the most recent indiscretion?
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March 15, 2006
MR. BARTOE: I had one last month. And that permit is now
applied for. And as Mr. Ossorio said, that was on my part a verbal
warning. No citation issued on that one.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So he's paid double permit fees a
couple of times; is that safe to assume?
MR. BARTOE: Correct.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. And we just want to bring this
home?
MR. JOSLIN: I'd like to hear, just for the record, is there a
reason that these six times you have been cited why you haven't
pulled --
MR. GAREAU: I don't know how far back they've gone for the
six times. I've had the company for 10 years and I worked for the
same company 11 years before that. I don't know how far -- it's been
in my name since 1996, and I don't know how far back the six go.
MR. OSSORIO: I believe it starts sometime in '02. There was
an issue over in an RV park, and I'm sure Mr. Gareau probably
doesn't want to get into something that's out of the scope of what
we're here to today, but there were some issues, and we addressed
them at the time sometime in '02. And then it's been an ongoing
problem in '06, so --
MR. JOSLIN: Still doesn't answer the question, though.
Is there some reason that you have that you are not going to pull
permits before you do the work?
MR. GAREAU: No. I pull permits every week. I don't know
if -- in the case of the mobile home work, I didn't think they required
a permit. They were small enclosures underneath. They were
portable. They were takedown, what you call temporary underneath
the canvas awning. There was three of those and I didn't think they
needed a permit. I don't know what the other -- I know what Tom's
case is, but I don't know what all six are.
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March 15, 2006
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Gutierrez?
MR. GUTIERREZ: Yes, sir?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Come here, I'll give you this.
MR. GUTIERREZ: Sorry I'm late, traffic was murder and I
live out in the Estates.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I enjoy getting to see your kids.
That came to my office the day after our meeting. You're
welcome to take that with you. That's why it was done so quickly.
MR. GUTIERREZ: I appreciate it.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good luck to you.
Sorry for the interruption.
So what do you want to -- what's your recommendation?
MR. OSSORIO: Recommendation would be probation for one
year and a $2,000 penalty. That's the county's recommendation.
It's been confirmed with Mr. Gareau as well.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You're in agreement with that?
MR. GAREAU: Yes.
MR. BLUM: Mr. Dickson?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes.
MR. BLUM: The homeowner, are there any complaints from
the homeowner? Was the work done okay, she paid her bills, she's
happy with the price, she's happy with the job?
MR. OSSORIO: I don't know if she's happy with the job, but we
did communicate and she's satisfied at this time with The Aluminum
Store. I haven't heard any complaints from the homeowner, no.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: This is probably one of the easiest
cases we've had.
MR. NEALE: Yeah, I mean, I could go through the whole
charge to the board and everything and penalty phase, but the board's
heard it a number of times. You understand what your charge is and
what your responsibilities are.
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March 15,2006
The board will need to vote first to find him in violation and then
vote on the penalty. So those two steps still need to be taken. But
because he's admitted liability, finding him in violation is relatively
simple, and then it's the board's prerogative to decide on penalty.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any more comments?
MR. GAREAU: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, go ahead and take a seat.
Do I hear a -- does anyone have any further questions?
(N 0 response.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I hear a motion to close public
hearing?
MR. BLUM: So moved.
MR. JOSLIN: Second, Joslin.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor?
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MS. KELLER: Aye.
MR. JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
Opposed?
(N 0 response.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, so what we need to do, same
routine that you're used to. First thing is the charge. I need a motion
on the charge and we'll address that and then go into the penalty
phase.
MR. BLUM: I make a motion that we accept the county's
recommendation on the charge as a guilty plea.
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March 15,2006
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, it probably came from the
license holder that he --
MR. BLUM: Yeah, the license holder admits culpability and
that he wishes to plead guilty.
MR. JOSLIN: I'll second the motion.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor?
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MS. KELLER: Aye.
MR. JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
Collier County Contracting Board, Licensing Board, real quick,
just some -- Board of Collier County Commissioners as the Petitioner
versus George Gareau, d/b/a The Aluminum Store, Case No. 2006-
05, license number 18108.
This cause came before public hearing on March 15th, 2006
before the Contractor Licensing Board for consideration of the
complaint filed against George Gareau.
Service of the complaint was made by certified mail in
accordance with Ordinance No. 90-105, as amended. Board, having
heard testimony under oath, receiving evidence, heard arguments to
all appropriate matters, thereupon issues its findings of fact,
conclusion of law and order the board as follows: Finding of fact
that, George Gareau -- I got it, maybe; we'll see the next time I read it
-- is the holder of record of certificate of competency No. 18108.
Number two, that the Board of Collier County Commissioners of
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March 15,2006
Collier County, Florida is the complainant in this matter. That the
board has jurisdiction of the respondent. And that Mr. Gareau was
present -- how did I do -- and was not represented by counsel.
Number four, all notices required by Ordinance No. 90-105, as
amended, have been properly issued. Allegations of fact as set forth
in the administrative complaint are approved and adopted and
incorporated in as findings of fact. Count -- one count, 4.1.8,
proceeding on any job without obtaining permits or inspections from
the city building and zoning division or the county building review
and permitting department.
Based upon the order of the board, based upon the foregoing
findings of fact pursuant to the authority granted in
Chapter 489, Florida Statutes, by a vote of 8-0, was found in
violation of this charge.
Mr. Neale, do we need to read what's available to us, or you
think we can skip that?
MR. NEALE: I think you can just skip and go to the penalty
phase.
MR.OSSORIO: Mr. Dickson, just to clarify. You said 4.1.8.
It's 4.1.18.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you, sir. 4.1.18, yes.
Okay, penalty phase. Discussion.
MR. JOSLIN: I think we ought to take staffs
recommendation. And Mr. Gareau's already agreed to it.
MS. KELLER: Can you repeat the staff recommendation?
MR. JOSLIN: It's a $2,000 fine.
MS. KELLER: Can I just ask a question? When you don't pull a
permit and you go in to pull it after the fact, you said something
about double fees?
MR.OSSORIO: There is a process in the building department
that when a contractor does not pull a building permit, or homeowner
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March 15,2006
for that matter that doesn't pull the necessary requirements under the
building code -- and if Gary Harrison was here he could probably
elaborate a little more about the fees -- but you do pay four times the
amount. So if the permit was $100, you might pay 400. I don't think
he was issued four times the amount of this permit. We did not red
flag him into the system, so he is not paying four times the amount of
this permit.
MS. KELLER: And what would this permit cost?
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Gareau, can you elaborate on what
permits cost for glass and glazing?
MR. GAREAU: They're about $53 each. Fifty-three for the
replacement of windows and 53 for the shutters. They were express
permits.
MR. OSSORIO: So you're talking about $53 for a building
permit, which he has paid. He didn't pay four times the amount.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Don't they have express permits or
coupon books for him?
MR. OSSORIO: I don't think for glass and glazing they do, no,
because --
MR. BLUM: He said --
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Express is different.
MR. OSSORIO: It's different. Because I believe on these you
still have to have a notice of commencement.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because they're over 2,500.
MR.OSSORIO: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. Because several of us are
allowed to buy coupon books.
MR. OSSORIO: Yeah, roofers and air conditioning, that's part
of the realm of coupons.
MR. JOSLIN: Roofers can do that? We've got to put a stop to
that.
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March 15,2006
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you stop hurricanes, I'll be happy.
Any other discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I need a motion, if there isn't.
MR. JOSLIN: I'll make the motion that we, having found
Mr. Gareau guilty of the charge, that he be placed on one year
probation, that he be fined $2,000 to be paid back within 30 days.
MR. BLUM: I'll second it, Blum.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor?
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MS. KELLER: Aye.
MR. JOSLIN: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE': Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
Opposed?
(N 0 response.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Done.
One more bit of homework here. Based upon the foregoing
findings of fact, conclusions of law and pursuant to our authority in
489, Florida Statute, Collier County Ordinance No. 90-105 by a vote
of 8-0, it is hereby ordered that the following disciplinary sanctions
and related order are hereby imposed upon the holder of Contractor
Certificate of Competency No. 10108:
Number one, probation for one year for his license.
Number two, a $2,000 fine to be paid within 30 days. And
that's it.
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March 15, 2006
Okay, Mr. Gareau?
MR. GAREAU: Yes.
MR. BLUM: Can I ask a question of Mr. Ossorio?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes, go ahead.
MR. BLUM: Michael?
MR.OSSORIO: Yes, sir.
MR. BLUM: Okay, he's on probation for two years.
MS. KELLER: One year.
MR. BLUM: One year, excuse me, one year.
In the event that he's cited for failing to pull a permit again, what
would be the process?
MR. OSSORIO: He immediately goes in front of the licensing
board for sanctions.
MS. KELLER: You don't want to come back.
MR. JOSLIN: That's right, don't come back.
MR. GAREAU: I understand.
MR. BLUM: That's why I asked the question.
MR.OSSORIO: This company's been in town for a long time,
and I'm sure that Mr. Gareau is still going to be in business for many
years to come.
This is not a pound of flesh. This is more of we're trying to be
more consistent how we conduct our business down in the office
referencing contractors due to the hurricane, because there are a lot of
contractors out there that are bypassing the notice of commencements
and are not pulling building permits. Because it's a lot easier just to
order the materials and go on the job and get it done. And it seems to
be a recurring problem. So this is maybe one of many this year.
Roofers are included.
MR. JOSLIN: Filing a notice of commencement, though, doesn't
take but probably 30 minutes of time.
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March 15, 2006
MR. OSSORIO: No. But getting the homeowner together,
signing, explaining what the notice of commencement is, going in
front of the courthouse and getting it recorded, it's a process.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: While we're on this subject, let me
bring something up. Because I'm guilty of this. I've been on the
board for 17 years. For the longest time -- and this goes back to I
think even before when you were there, Tom -- there was an
understanding when after Hurricane Andrew that there was a
threshold of $750. And later the building department raised that
threshold to $1,000. And a majority of contractors in this townhave
been working under that assumption that minor repairs not exceeding
$1,000 are not required to have a permit. Otherwise, you'd be doing
15 permits a day.
Where's the county stand on that?
MR. OSSORIO: I believe it's going to be up to the building
director. We do bring to his attention some cases that meet that
threshold, over $1,000. But I think in the building code it does
stipulate that if it's considered repair work, minor, inconsequential,
no matter what the number of the money is or the value, no permit is
required. Obviously if you're doing $1,000 for a contractor, price is
not much. You don't get a lot of bang for your buck for $1,000.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, I've even used coupons on
minor repairs, because it's so ambiguous. For example, Marco
Island, they require no permits for hurricane repairs. For repairs.
MR.OSSORIO: We have the same stipulation for the county.
If it's screen enclosures less than 50 percent damage, no permit's
required. Or if you're repairing the shingles, no permit's required.
But if you're actually doing a reroof, that's requires an inspection.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Of course.
MR. OSSORIO: There's an inspection process. So we use a
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March 15,2006
variety of different avenues. One would be does it require inspection,
and if so, then yes, it requires a building permit.
MR. NEALE: And Marco Island, screen enclosure is 25 percent
or less, apparently.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So if it's just repair of hurricane
damage, there is no minor repair permit required.
MR. OSSORIO: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Not really a threshold.
MR.OSSORIO: No, I think that $1,000 comes from - I think it's
in the -- it's in our administrative code, which is adopted by the Board
of County Commissioners in Bill Hammond's office.
I can get that for the next meeting so we can all take a look at it.
I wish Gary Harrison was still here, then he could shoot from the hip
with it.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It would be nice to, because there's so
much confusion about it. I've put coupons on repairs that were over
$1,000, and what you're saying is I didn't need to do that.
MR. OSSORIO: If it's repairs and it's minor, inconsequential, it
doesn't require a building permit, no permit's required. I don't think
we would ever bring a roofer in front of the licensing board or state
board for reshingling half a house from hurricane damage. But if you
stripped it down to the sheeting and get to notice of commencement,
that requires a roofing progress, so we want to make sure that permit
gets done.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I would like to clear that up at the
next meeting, if you don't mind.
MR.OSSORIO: No problem. We'll have it at the next meeting.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Very good. We thank you for your
time, sir. Wish you well.
At this time, do you want to go into this letter that we've
received, Mr. Bartoe, from --
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March 15, 2006
MR. BARTOE: I don't want to go into it at all.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You don't?
MR. BARTOE: Mr. Balzano says it's completely false. And
Mr. Balzano handled the whole thing, so I can't answer for him.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It is completely false. Then that's all
I need to hear. Chief inspector says it's completely false, then I'm not
going to address it. Enough said.
Any other business?
MR. BARTOE: We have to start process of amending the
ordinance, having some workshops. I think Mr. Neale brought that
up last year. And we have a few things that have to be changed in it.
We have -- I'm sure Mr. Neale has some things that have to be
brought up to date to coincide with the state.
We have -- Board of County Commissioners wants us to work
on a change on restitution, which Mr. Zachary has been working on.
And Mr. Neale, I'm assuming we can hold a workshop during a
regular meeting, if we have a short one like this.
MR. NEALE: Yeah, that would be a very good time to do it,
frankly, is if we have a short agenda is to do it during a regular board
meeting. Just make sure that the notice is adequately given that this
is going to be a workshop as well. Because I have a feeling we're
going to have contractors and maybe even the public that would want
to comment on certain areas that the board may be reviewing.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What's the time frame again?
MR. BARTOE: There's no time frame. This ordinance was last
done in 2002, so I'm sure we have some changes.
I remember one that I mentioned we have to look at is changing
our approved testing agencies, which the board has already added
one. And each test as a test and a trade, "X" amount of hours long
and a one-hour business and law test. And we're going to eliminate
the hours because of the different tests, different companies have
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March 15, 2006
different lengths to their tests and the hours are not required in there,
as they currently are.
MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Dickson, just to clarify real quick, we
did -- contractors licensing office did send a memo to the building
director, letting him know that we are going to start amending the
ordinance and we're going to have a meeting with them in a couple of
days. But we want to see it somewhat finished before the hurricane
season starts. Sometime in the next three or four months.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What specific areas -- and Lisa, I'm
going to have you come up, if you would, in a minute. What
specific areas do we need to address so that contractors in those
fields are aware this is going to happen? What do you know that
we need to get into?
MR. BAR TOE: In specific trades, I know of nothing.
Mr. Neale, is there anything to address as far as changes to
comply with the state?
MR. NEALE: There have been some changes in 489, and
particularly the one that we've run into a few times here in hearings,
is the change in the amount of fines that can be levied by the board.
The board now can levy fines up to 10,000, as opposed to 5,000. So
that needs to be put in there.
What I would suggest, just as it may be easier to do is that we
postpone doing an ordinance review until after legislative session is
over this year. Just simply because they always monkey around with
489 somehow, even if it may be trivial.
So legislature is in session right now. They're going to be in
session for another 60 days, or roughly 60 days, 45 days. So what I
would suggest is that we not do an ordinance review until after
legislative session is over so that we can take into account all the
changes they make in this session, rather than sort of doing last year's
session and then having to jump right back into it again in three
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March 15,2006
months and say ah, here's some more changes. So that would be my
only suggestion. I don't know how the board feels.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, because within 30 days, I get a
list of everything they tweaked in 489 --
MR. NEALE: Right.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- as far as building's concerned.
MR. NEALE: So that's --
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And they're already talking about a
couple of items because of the --
MR. NEALE: Hurricane issues.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- influx of hurricanes.
MR. NEALE: So, you know, that's my only suggestion to the
board is that you wait until after the session's over. They never take
up 489 issues in special session, so it will be done at the end of the
regular session. And then the Governor has a period of time to sign
off on them.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Don't they normally close the end of
May?
MR. NEALE: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So the earliest we could do this is
June or July?
MR. NEALE: Yeah, probably the June meeting would be a
good one to do it.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And batten the hatches down for
August and September, right? Or October this year.
Lisa, do you mind coming up? I want everyone to meet you.
Tell her who you are and what you do.
MS. KOEHLER: Lisa Koehler, and I am the public information
coordinator for the community development and environmental
services division.
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March 15, 2006
And I have been attending your meetings because I'm writing
press releases about your decisions, because we've been getting a lot
of attention at our Board of County Commissioners meetings lately
about contractors and some of the problems that homeowners have
been having with contractors.
So I've just been trying to get more interest in the media and out
to the public about contractor licensing, about what staff does that we
can -- you know, that people need to check with our office first
before hiring a contractor, make sure they're licensed. They can
check our files to see if there's been past complaints, if they'd had
problems pulling permits or whatever, sort of kind of acting like the
Better Business Bureau, if you will. So that is why I've been
attending your meetings, so I can get more information to put out to
the public.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And the letter you put out on -- what
was the name of the company that did the -- we had last month with
the hurricane shutters?
MS. KOEHLER: Oh, the press release, you mean?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. What was the name of that
company?
MR. OSSORIO: Tropical Shield.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Tropical Shield out of Fort Myers.
Which I notice you got that press release on the front page of the
business section. Nice job.
MS. KOEHLER: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because we know there's tons of
people out there that have made deposits that are still waiting for
Tropical Shield to show up, and they're never going to show up.
And their money is gone.
MS. KELLER: Were there any more people that responded?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I don't know. Did you have any
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March 15,2006
response from people?
MS. KOEHLER: I did not. But I don't know if you guys did.
MR. BARTOE: No. It was amazing, I did not.
MR. OSSORIO: We did receive complaints from Fort Myers,
and I know that the City of Fort Myers is taking our findings of facts
and proceeding against his license in Fort Myers. So we were the
forefront of actually doing what we needed to do with Tropical
Shield first.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is the Florida Department of Law
Enforcement pursuing felony charges; do you know that?
MR. OSSORIO: I don't know that.
MR. BARTOE: Do not know.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And there's countless cases of grand
fraud.
MR. OSSORIO: It was a good point that you made last meeting
referencing when he closed his business and when he took deposits.
And that was actually brought to their attention by our office about
that. So I know that they are looking into it. I can't specify who and
what division up there in Fort Myers, but that's going to happen.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: In 17 years I've never seen a case like
that before, fortunately, in the county. So I just don't want it to
happen again.
MR. JOSLIN: I have one quick question, Lisa. Does this --
this is in regard to you as far as the television media. When this
board meeting airs, I know it airs in the morning when we are
actually live.
MS. KOEHLER: Right.
MR. JOSLIN: Does it air in the evening at all?
MS. KOEHLER: I think they do replay the meetings.
MR. JOSLIN: Because I got a lot of response when we were on
television in the evening. And a lot of people called.
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March 15,2006
MS. KELLER: That was a special thing because yeah, we got
bumped. I don't know if it does replay.
MS. KOEHLER: I think it depends on what else, you know, that
our staff has got going, other meetings, other projects. You know,
their schedule is not -- isn't always consistent on a weekly basis as far
as what's happening and what's replaying. So if they've got time to
fill, they'll replay this meeting.
Are you wanting them to play it more often?
MR. JOSLIN: I think--
MS. KOEHLER: Because I can certainly put that request in.
MR. JOSLIN: You know, reviewing what we actually do and
the Board of County Commissioners are actually looking at us, then I
would think it might not be a bad idea. If it was to show that the
public would actually see in the evening time when they're home and
off work.
MS. KOEHLER: The other thing, I think at not yesterday's
meeting but the Board of County Commissioners meeting prior to
that, Commissioner Henning had asked if we are putting the
findings -- or not necessarily the findings, I'm sorry - the decisions
that you all make against contractors, if we're putting those on our
web page. He asked that we do that. We've got other information
about contractor licensing on our web page, but he has asked that we
start listing the contractors that are being found guilty on the web
page so that consumers can go and see the decisions that you all are
making. So I think that's going to be added as well.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But the thing I find that I think needs
corrected in dealing with the public every day and different
customers that have had problems or have been taken, the public
doesn't know about this board. They go out and hire an attorney, or
they take their -- they lick their wounds and suffer the financial loss.
The thing that County Commission I don't think understands
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March 15,2006
is the fact, the number of complaints that the contractor licensing
investigators get, which is somewhere -- you get 400 plus calls a
month? And--
MS. KOEHLER: They get a monthly report from staff on --
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: On what they do?
MS. KOEHLER: On the complaints coming in, citations and
restitution.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That they have, what are we, five or
six investigators now?
MR. BARTOE: Four, and a supervisor.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Four and a supervisor. But we have
five investigators that offer the service when something has gone
wrong.
MS. KOEHLER: Absolutely. It's a great service. And you're
right, I don't think a lot of folks know that we're there to help them.
So we're trying to get more information out to let people know.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Out of those 400 calls, we maybe get
one or two cases a month before the board. Which means they
resolved all the rest of them --
MS. KOEHLER: That's right.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- prior to them even coming before
this board. They do a phenomenal job.
MR. NEALE: What I might suggest to the board and to staff for
your approval is the report that's given to the Board of County
Commissioners which lists number of citations and all that, that it be
also given to this board as part of the monthly meeting for this board.
Because people do watch these telecasts and they may not watch the
County Commission telecast, or the County Commission, when it's
not -- you know, it's in their packet, it's not necessarily put up there.
MS. KOEHLER: Right, they get it via e-mail.
MR. NEALE: So here, if it was given potentially verbally
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March 15, 2006
at the meeting, people would actually hear that, you know, the
contractor licensing staff has written, you know, 100 citations this
month and that they've fielded 450 complaint calls. So that number
would actually be out there in the public and then Lisa could include
it in her press --
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I would love that.
MS. KOEHLER: It's a great idea. I mean, the guys do a
fabulous job. They've been tracking I think since 1980 something,
Tom?
MR. BARTOE: '86, I believe.
MS. KOEHLER: '86, over a million dollars back to the citizens
of Collier County from contractors. I think that's just -- it's incredible.
It's great work.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, we go through a major
hurricane and immediately there's signs posted at every entrance into
Collier County that it's a felony to work without a license in the State
of Florida, which it is.
And I've worked other counties with hurricanes, and we didn't
have any problems except maybe one or two cases. And I would love
to see that report monthly so that we're aware of it.
MR. NEALE: And that way the public could actually hear
it, too.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, I would read it.
But no, the staff is doing a wonderful job. So they should be
commended and not criticized.
MS. KOEHLER: I agree completely.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's a pleasure to have you here.
MS. KOEHLER: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I appreciate the article last month on
the one crook we did have. But he was out of Lee County.
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March 15,2006
MR. NEALE: And I have to admit, I did hear -- and I have to
say that another praise for the job the public information office is
doing is I've heard reports of what this board does on WGCU on
NBR on their local news on the radio. So they're picking it up, too.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And we're basically contractors, six
contractors, three consumers. And we're not here to take - we don't
want to take our fellow contractors' licenses away. But we also don't
want crooks in this county or people that won't stand behind their
work. And that won't be tolerated in Collier County. Thank you
agaIn.
MS. KOEHLER: You're welcome.
MR. BARTOE: And I believe if we get lucky at a workshop,
maybe one workshop will take care of it. Right, Mr. Neale?
MR. NEALE: I think it should. There's not a huge number of
changes, but there's a lot. And if we can wait until after legislative
session, then we can incorporate everything from the last couple of
sessions, get it all squared away. There's a couple of tweaking area I
think Mr. Zachary and I would like to see done to clarify some issues,
so --
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, great.
MR. BARTOE: I know in the past there have been some
ordinance amendments that have taken months and months and
months. But hopefully we'll get a lot done.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Anybody have anything else?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Record short meeting. Wonderful.
Nice to have you back.
MR. GUITE': Thank you, it's good to be back.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's like a good glove. It's like you just
came right back in. Good to have you back.
If anybody doesn't have anything else, I'll entertain a motion.
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March 15,2006
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Adjourned, thank you.
*****
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 9:44 a.m.
COLLIER COUNTY LICENSING BOARD
LES DICKSON, CHAIRMAN
Transcript prepared on behalf of Gregory Court Reporting Service,
Inc., by Cherie' R. Nottingham
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