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CLB Minutes 02/15/2006 R February 15,2006 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTOR'S LICENSING BOARD Naples, Florida, February 15,2006 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Contractor's Licensing Board in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: Les Dickson William Lewis Sydney Blum Ann Keller Richard Joslin Michael Boyd ALSO PRESENT: Michael Ossorio, Licensing Comp Officer Tom Bartoe, Licensing Comp Officer Patrick Neal, Attorney for the Contractor's Licensing Board Robert Zachary, Assistant County Attorney Page 1 AGENDA COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD DATE: FEBRUARY;15, 2006 TIME: 9:00 A.M. W. HARMON TURNER BUILDING (ADMINISTRATION BUILDING) COURTHOUSE COMPLEX ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THAT TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED. I. ROLL CALL II. ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS: III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA: IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: DATE: January 18, 2006 V. DISCUSSION: VI. NEW BUSINESS: Charles S. Seeker - Request to qualify a 20d entity. Claudia A. Sacacian - Request to qualify a 20d entity. VII. OLD BUSINESS: VIII PUBLIC HEARINGS: Case # 2006-03 Collier County vs Santos G. Guevara, Jr. D/B/A Tropical Shield of Florida Inc. Case # 2006-04 Collier County vs Todd Grupp D/B/A TAG. Professional Carpentry, LLC. IX. REPORTS: X. NEXT MEETING DATE: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 February 15,2006 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good morning to all of you. I'd like to call to order the meeting of the Collier County Contractor Licensing Board for February 15, 2007 -- '06. How about that one. Hope nobody forgot Valentine's Day. Welcome to you. If you want to make an appeal for a case that's heard before this Board, you will need a verbatim record of the -- of the proceedings of this Board, which is being taken. I'd like to start first with roll call to my right. MR. LEWIS: William Lewis. MR. BLUM: Syd Blum. MS. KELLER: Ann Keller. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Les Dickson. MR. JOSLIN: Richard Joslin. MR. BOYD: Michael Boyd. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And next I need Mr. Bartoe. Any additions or deletions to the agenda, sir? MR. BARTOE: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Board members. For the record, my name is Tom Bartoe, Collier County Licensing Compliance Officer. First addition I have is not to the agenda. I want to introduce an addition to staff. We have a new member to replace Juan Lopez, and it's Andrew Wuhrer, and it's W-U-H-R-E-R. Andy, stand up so they can see you. MR. WUHRER: Good morning. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good to meet you, Andrew. Good to have you with us. MR. WUHRER: Good to be here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you. And additions to the agenda under new business, Mr. Balzano and I received a phone call yesterday from a man we want to put on the agenda, George Gutierrez. He wanted to discuss Pro Metrix roofing exam that he took in January. He advised he got a 74, and he advised the one question is wrong. He tried to discuss it with them and there is no discussing it with them. And I checked in the computer, and it did show a 74. It Page 2 February 15,2006 did show a 90 that he got for the business and law. And with alot of our members being roofers, maybe the Board might have the ability to give the man go ahead to proceed to obtain a license. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Tell me the name again. MR. BARTOE: George Gutierrez, G-U-T-I-E-R-R-E-Z. MR. JOSLIN: Was this a case that we heard before possibly? MR. BARTOE: I'm sorry? MR. JOSLIN: Is this a gentleman that came before the board before? MR. BARTOE: Not to my knowledge. He just took this test last month. MR. JOSLIN: I got you. All right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Anything else? MR. BARTOE: And staff has no other additions or deletions. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. I need a motion to approve the agenda as changed. MR. JOSLIN: So moved, Joslin. MR. BLUM: Second, Blum. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Next is the minutes of the last meeting. MR. BARTOE: I have a number of things on the minutes. And I noticed this in a few older minutes also after looking back. You people have become commissioners, if you look at the minutes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Then where is our paycheck? MR. BARTOE: You'll have to ask the people who appointed Page 3 February 15,2006 you, sir, not me. MR. JOSLIN: I want a raise right now. MR. BARTOE: Also in the minutes on page 112, on a motion to find Mr. Bravo guilty on his charges, it has that Ms. Keller voted, and she left -- and she can correct me if I am wrong -- she left before this came up; is that correct, Ms. Keller? MS. KELLER: Yes. MR. BARTOE: And also they show her voting again on page 121, which is wrong. And also page 127, besides Ms. Keller voting to adjourn, Mr. Lewis you did too, and I don't believe you were here. MR. LEWIS: That is correct. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Bartoe, I'm absolutely blown away that you read all the minutes like that. MR. BARTOE: Yes. MS. KELLER: That's what I said. MR. BARTOE: I figured someone had to. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm proud of you. Okay. And unless I'm not aware of it, no, we're not commissioners, but it would be nice to receive a paycheck occasionally. Especially since I show it's Chairman Dickson and the rest of you are commissioners. With those changes, did anybody else find any? That's very thorough. MR. BARTOE: I heard they were going to double your pay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good. Okay. Do I have a motion to approve the minutes as amended? MR. BLUM: So moved. MR. JOSLIN: Joslin, second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. Page 4 February 15,2006 MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Moving right along. MR. JOSLIN: Does that mean that we are not really commissioners? Just checking. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you. What do we call it, just board member? MR. BARTOE: Usually when you read the old minutes it was Mr. Ms. Mrs. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. I don't think we need a title. MS. KELLER: You are chairman though. MR. BARTOE: It would be less typing also. MR instead of Commissioner. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And last name wouldn't offend anybody. There is no discussion. New business, moving right along. Charles Secker, Request to qualify second entity. Are you present? MR. SECKER: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you would come up here to this podium. I need for you to state your name and if you'd spell the last name, and then the court reporter will swear you in. MR. SECKER: Charles Shawn Secker, S-E-C-K-E-R. (Sworn) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Give us a brief overview of what you qualify now, what you're wanting to qualify, and what your reasons are. MR. SECKER: Right now I'm qualifying my electrical contracting business to do new construction, some remodel, and a little service. I'm trying to qualify another business which will be directed towards installing generators, gensets for new businesses and residences. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's a big business now isn't it? MR. SECKER: It looks that way. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Especially when you don't have Page 5 February 15,2006 power for weeks. MR. SECKER: Everybody is crying. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good point. You don't live in the county, do you? MR. SECKER: I just moved up to Punta Gorda in October after I got divorced from my wife. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. JOSLIN: Why do you look familiar? Have you been up here before? MR. SECKER: I've lived here since 1980. I've had my business since '99. MR. JOSLIN: You have never been before this board before? Seen you on the street? MR. SECKER: No. Uh-huh. We know each other through friends, and we have also worked together years ago. MR. JOSLIN: I thought so. Okay. MS. KELLER: I just have a question on page 5K. It says, what percentage of ownership do you have in the present business. You are qualifying. What percentage of ownership will you have in the business you are attempting to qualify. And you put 100 percent. Can you answer that in two parts? MR. SECKER: As far as the business that I currently have, yes, I am the sole owner of Selector Incorporated. MS. KELLER: And the proposed? MR. SECKER: I will be 10 percent owner of that business. MS. KELLER: Ten percent. Okay. MR. BLUM: My question was, you asked -- there's a question about check writing authority for president of the proposed entity, you said, no, you don't have any? MR. SECKER: Not at this time. MR. BLUM: For either one? MR. SECKER: No, no. Only for the new business. Page 6 February 15,2006 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What do you have, an investor? MR. SECKER: Actually, I'm going in partnership with somebody on this new venture. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Any complaints at all with the county against the existing company? MR. BARTOE: What did he say? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Complaints. MR. BARTOE: No, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Credit report looks nice. MR. SECKER: I try to keep it that way. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It does help. MR. JOSLIN: Unless anyone else has any questions, I'll make the motion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Feel free. MR. JOSLIN: I'll make the motion that we approve this application. MR. BLUM: I'll second it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (N 0 response) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Against? You've got unanimous. We wish you very well. MR. SECKER: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You'll do well here. However, all of your records are here, so don't go to the county today. MR. SECKER: Okay. Page 7 February 15, 2006 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: This will apply to the other person that is here as well, but you can go there tomorrow and finalize everything. MR. JOSLIN: One last thing in the packet, I see you have a workman's comp exemption form in there. You do realize that if you have employees, you do have to carry workman's comp? MR. SECKER: Yes, sir. With my present business, I have 12 employees right now, my present business. And even though I'm in that business, I've got workman's comp on myself. MR. JOSLIN: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's cheap for the owner. I've never understood people that exempt the owner. It just makes no sense whatsoever. It's the cheapest insure in the world. MR. SECKER: With this new company, I'm going to be more of the figurehead and overseeing the business aspect of it, so I won't actually be in the field as much like I am with my present business. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Uh-uh. Okay. I hope you do well. MR. SECKER: All right. Thanks. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you. Claude Sacacian? MR. BLUM: Claudia. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Claudia. I'm sorry. I didn't see that. I just saw -- I thought it was an E, that's why I put the glasses on. Excuse me. Claudia. MS. SACACIAN: Good morning. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you would state your name. You can pull that down. Just reach up and pull that down. MS. SACACIAN: Claudia Sacacian, S-A-C-A-C-I-A-N. (Sworn) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If would you, Ms. Sacacian, tell us what you qualify now, and what you want to qualify. MS. SACACIAN: I want to qualify ICB -- yeah, International Carpet and Blinds like a second entity to work under my license. Page 8 February 15,2006 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You're wanting to qualify what? MS. SACACIAN: So they can do it -- they can install floors and all that. I have a license, a tile and marble license, so I want to qualify them so they can install floors. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. So you do -- you qualify carpet and blinds right now, right? MR. NEALE: No. Classics and Designs. MS. SACACIAN: No, Classics and Designs I am, Classics and Designs. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Does that really require your license? Is it flooring? MS. SACACIAN: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. And so now you want to do the marble and stone. Okay. MS. KELLER: I have the same question for you actually on page 4K. It asks what percentage ownership do you have in the present business you're currently qualifying, and that what percentage of ownership will you have in the business you're attempting to qualify. You wrote 50 percent. And there's two questions there. MS. SACACIAN: Yeah, 50 percent. MS. KELLER: For both? MS. SACACIAN: Yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And I assume the husband is the other? MS. SACACIAN: Yeah, yeah. I'm just, you know -- he's in the field all the time, not me. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I got you. Another one of those funny credit reports. What happens with this, Mr. Bartoe, is this one credit report that shades every other line when they make copies of it, we can't read through it. I don't know if hitting a lighter button would help us at all, but essentially for me, maybe you guys have x-ray vision, but it takes out 50 percent of what is on there as being legible. Page 9 ___._.._....___..._. _. 'n_'____,.,_._. February 15,2006 No complaints against this business? MR. BARTOE: No, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Anybody else? MR. LEWIS: Do we have an actual license number? I notice there's not one on the application. MR. BARTOE: There's one written here and her folder is here. The one for Classic Stone is written on the report on the front page, 23539. MR. JOSLIN: Any other questions? I make the motion that we approve the application. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I hear a second? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Got a motion to approve. Do I hear a second? MR. BOYD: Second, Boyd. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You guys ready? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. I have a motion to approve and a second. All those in favor? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (N 0 response) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You're approved. MS. SACACIAN: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Tomorrow remember. MS. SACACIAN: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Hope you do well. Page 10 February 15,2006 MS. SACACIAN: Thanks. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: George Gutierrez. Are you here? MR. GUTIERREZ: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you would come up to the podium and please state your name. And I know she's going to need you to spell your last name for her. MR. GUTIERREZ: Good morning. My name is George Gutierrez. I live in Collier County Florida. My last name is G-U-T-I-E-R-R-E-Z. First name is George. (Sworn) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. You took the test, got a 74, and -- MR. GUTIERREZ: Trade exam. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. I had an issue with-- MR. GUTIERREZ: Experior assessments that was formerly known as -- well, Thompson Prometrix formerly known as Experior. Many of the questions were ambiguous. They asked about on center spacings, thickness of metal. But it did not specify according to what RAS of the Florida building code the question should be pulled from. And I wrote a letter explaining to them that it's hard as a test taker to know, when they ask you what the minimum width of a valley metal is, whether they're talking about a high velocity zone, non-high velocity, NCRA manual, or FBC manual. So a series of these questions in the steep slope section of the exam, I was forced to guess on, and they wont' let me know what I passed and what I did not pass on, but it was so marginal at a 74 that it came down to the portion of a question, being that each question is two points per question. I couldn't get any specificity from them at all. A lot of the questions were ambiguous. I've been in this business for almost 20 years. I moved here from Miami-Dade County Florida. Where, since you know, since Hurricane Andrew in 1992, we've had a massive revision, to not only the South Florida Building Code, but to the Florida Page 11 February 15,2006 building code. And I moved over here with a lot of experience, and I was just disapointed with the particular exam that I took. It's not that I'm a sore loser, it's just that a lot of half the steep slope questions on the exam could have gone one way or the other. They indicated one specific answer and three distracters, however I argue, that there is more than one specific answer with regard to the metal flashing questions, particularly the drip edge, whether it's laid, under, in between, or over the under-Iayments. Depending on different manufacturers Notice of Acceptance approvals from the PCA Board in Miami-Dade County, it can be done a number of ways. It can be done between a 30-90 HOBMOB system, it can be stripped in over the cap sheet or with a new polystick TU, which was recently introduced into the market. It's mandated that the edge metal actually goes over the under-Iayment system to hold down the edge. So, the test did not specify according to what manual to derive your answer from. It just asked vague questions. And it happened to be that portion of the exam that I did the worst on that I happened to know the most of. So I contacted Experior. They sent me back a written response that they stand behind their 74 percent. I spoke to the building official, Paul, and he advised me to come today and possibly get some leniency from the Board to be considered for my roofing license. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Now I know your name from somewhere. You're working with who? MR. GUTIERREZ: I work for a roof tile manufacturer in Miami called Artizano's, Inc, and I'm a material sales representative for Artizano's. I work between roofing contractors and building officials and help explain to people how our system is to be installed. I'm involved in numerous TAS and RAS 120 protocols to have our materials submitted quarterly for testing. And I have been involved in roofing since I was 17 years old. And I've ran crews, I've run installation crews, I've done the office, I've done sales for tile. And I Page 12 February 15,2006 am interested in obtaining my roofing license in Collier. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Are you going to contract, or still stay with Artizano? MR. GUTIERREZ: No. Artizano is owned by state licensed roofing contractor. He's been licensed since 1993. I believe the year following Hurricane Andrew, which I happened to have gone through in Country Walk. A little community which was pretty much wiped off the map. I lived there with my mother and father. And I know what a category six hurricane can do. I've been through one. I was under a mattress in my mom's closet. And I saw the codes at the time and what they represented is our house came down around us. So I understand quality work and what needs to be done. And it's my intention to do just that. And I will not engage in any work that's not beyond my immediate supervision as a qualifying agent. I will not subcontract work out, and I will not perform any work that I'm not directly responsible for supervising, whether it's an hour throughout the day, or the entire day. But it will not be at the control of a telephone call to my superintendant. I will be involved. I will be on the site. And if my name is on it, I will back up what's done. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any questions from the Board? What he's saying is correct. There is a lot of ambiguity. Of course that happens with a GUC license too. MR. LEWIS: Yeah, but how does anybody pass it ifthere's that much ambiguity? Question. Mr. Gutierrez, are you currently licensed in Miami-Dade County? MR. GUTIERREZ: No, sir. MR. LEWIS: Broward County? MR. GUTIERREZ: No, sir. MR. LEWIS: Do you hold any licenses in the State of Florida? MR. GUTIERREZ: No, sir. MR. LEWIS: Thank you. MR. BLUM: I have to look to Mr. Dickson. He's saying this, his Page 13 February 15,2006 -- most of his expertise is in the areas that were controversial, so -- MR. GUTIERREZ: May I just site some things to the Florida Building Code while we're on the subject? If you look at RAS 115 in the Florida Building Code. In Collier County, I'm assuming that we're in a high velocity hurricane zone, being that we're a coastal community such as Miami-Dade County and Broward and Palm Beach. As you all know, as members of the commission, even within the Florida Building Code itself lies different protocols within the State of Florida. Some on center spacings are allowed like in frost proof Florida at two inches. We require here four inches. Shingles can be four, nail -- four nails per shingle throughout different regions of Florida. In Collier County, we require six. Head lapse range from two to four inches depending on what part of the State of Florida you reside in. But the one common denominator is that with most high velocity zones, I understand that coming from Miami-Dade County Florida. And being that I've been involved in this since 1991, I've looked at the RAS 115 protocol, RAS 118 mechanically fastened. By the way, I might add, there was not one single tile question on my exam pertaining to roof tile. There were a lot of questions about cedar shakes and shingles, which I know are not common place in many counties in Florida. They're high maintenance and they're difficult to do. But I was disappointed that I didn't even find on the steep slope portion of the test, I don't recall a single question about roof tile. Concrete, clay, nailed, mortar, pollyfoamed. I spent a lot of time reading these manuals. I've read them page for page. I own the National Roofing Contractor's Association, Fifth Edition manuals one through four. I've read them in their entirety. I've read all the RAS code 115's through 120's. I pretty much -- these all validate my argument that the drip edge metal can be installed a number of ways. According to Thompson Prometrix, there was only one correct answer and there were three distracters, and I just don't agree with that. And I can retake the exam if need be, but being that I scored a 74 and a 90 Page 14 February 15,2006 on the business law, I'm just asking for a little bit ofleniency, even if it's on a probation period or limited in scope of what I can do, but I just want a chance to prove myself. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Speaking as a roofing contractor for the benefit of the Board, and I'm state certified, which is what you should have tried to go for. It really bothers me if Experior doesn't have question on tile, which is the number one cause of damage on other buildings in a hurricane because they become flying missles. I'm not concerned about one question. If he went to Dade County or Broward County he would be mildly approved because their passing grade is 70. Collier County, we do think we're better than anybody else and we require a 75. He made a 90 on his business and law, which is exceptional. So, to hold him, hold him up for one point, I don't really have a problem with it. MS. KELLER: But we also have looked at Experior and we waived in previous cases. But it's kind of concerning that somebody with as much experience and knowledge as you had had trouble with the test. So, I think -- I don't know what you can do about that, but -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, we've approved another testing agency. The state is much -- you should go for your state -- of all the contractors in the State of Florida, ten percent are state certified. That's a shocking figure. But most people just don't go do it. It's not that they couldn't pass it, they just don't do it. So here you are passing through four or five counties, why would you do county license. You can do reciprocity. MR. GUTIERREZ: My intention is to apply for that next. I was going to try for the county exam first with the intent of original -- later on at a later time. It's expensive to take the State exam. It's over $3,000. Even though I purchased the majority of the books, the schools that advise you to take the seminars to prepare you. Because a lot of people say the trade exam doesn't gauge your ability of practical knowledge, it's how fast you can flip through pages to find Page 15 February 15,2006 information. I don't necessarily agree with that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No. MR. GUTIERREZ: But they do tell you how to go through the pages in a fast manner since it is a timed exam. And my father -- by the way, I didn't mention, my father has been state licensed as a general contractor in Florida since 1972. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's not pertinent. MR. GUTIERREZ: He advised me to also take a seminar in the state exam. That's what my point is. Being that that's said, being that it may, it's expensive and it's been considerably more cost wise than the county process has been. And that's why I'm trying to be compliant with the county process and work on later to go for state licence. But I do reside in Collier County. It is my intention to pretty much work within Collier County and, you know, that's what I'm starting out with at first. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Any other questions of the Board? MR. JOSLIN: I think with the comments that you made regarding the testing and the answers if you're telling us -- the questions you took are probably correct in the method that they test, and I don't think I have a problem with making a motion to approve. MR. NEALE: What I suggest to the board because you're going to be modifying the testing requirement here, is that the Board needs to make a finding of fact that the applicant has demonstrated sufficient knowledge that a retaking of the test would be superfluous. I think that finding needs to be made. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. I still need to go forward with a motion though. MR. LEWIS: I was going to suggest that we get some direction in regard to what the requirements are for us in order to waive the testing requirements from Mr. Neale, please. MR. NEALE: It's under the codified Ordinance in Section Page 16 February 15,2006 22-184. And it says that the Board shall take testimony from the applicant, and shall consider other relevant evidence regarding whether the application meets the requirements of this commission. Upon the evidence presented by the applicant and the contractor licensing supervisor, the Board shall determine whether the applicant is qualified or unqualified for the trade in which application has been made. Findings of fact and conclusion of law regarding the approval or denial of the application shall be made by the Board. The Board may consider the applicant's relevant recent experience in the specific trade, and based upon such experience, may waive testing requirements if convinced that the applicant is qualified by experience, whereby such competency testing would be superfluous. MR. BARTOE: Mr. Neale, today the Board with this decision will only be giving him permission to proceed. He has not filled out an application yet or anything. Mr. Palzano and I suggested he come here and possibly he could get this approval and then proceed. MR. NEALE: Yes. It would still require a complete application and the approval of that application. MR. JOSLIN: So at this time all we're doing is allowing him to apply? MR. BARTOE: To proceed, yes. MR. LEWIS: Is it my understanding that after filing a complete application that he would still need to come back before this Board in order to gain the testing requirement waiver? MR. BARTOE: I say no, he wouldn't have to. You're giving him the okay. And as long as staff finds his complete application in order later, staff should be able to issue a license, am I correct? MR. NEALE: Yes. MR. LEWIS: My suggestion to the Board would be to see some proof. Mr. Gutierrez has been very eloquent in his speaking and telling us all the things that he's been through, but we have nothing but his hearsay at this point. Although it is testimony, he is under oath, I Page 17 February 15, 2006 would like to see something in writing. I would not be opposed to granting a waiver, but I would like to see some backup to it, to the requirements. MR. BARTOE: I'm sorry, what do you want to see, sir? MR. LEWIS: Some backup requirements. Some backup paperwork as stated in 22-184. MR. BARTOE: Oh, he'll have to submit a complete application. MR. LEWIS: I don't care about the application. I want to see his MR. BARTOE: Experience? MS. KELLER: Experience. MR BARTOE: That has to be there or he doesn't get a license. That's automatic. The ordinance says for roofing you must show X amount of years experience. I believe it's three years. MR. NEALE: I would agree with Mr. Lewis in that for the board's protection, for this Board to grant the waiver, I think it would be appropriate for the Board to get the Affidavits and such that are required in the ordinance to prove such experience. MR. LEWIS: For the waiver of the testing. MR. NEALE: Yeah. And just under Section 22-183 of the ordinance, it would be, just for your information Mr. Guiterrez, Affidavits from former employers with specifics as to the number of years of experience, work performed, and other relevant information. Copies of other Certificates of Competency, Affidavits from any building director and locations where the applicant worked, and affidavits from any other source within the trade applied for. So, it would be appropriate for the Board to see that kind of information. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Neale? MR. NEALE: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Can we not put that responsibility on county officials? Otherwise it's superfluous for us to take an action. MR. NEALE: Well, the Board is making a determination that Page 18 February 15,2006 the testing requirements can be waived because they would be superfluous. And at this point the Board's only evidence to that point is Mr. Guiterrez very eloquent testimony. I would suggest that the Board may want to review further evidence before they make such determination. Typically this Board in cases similar to this have reviewed fairly extensive information, including written copies of the test results, and other Affidavits of experience and so forth. MR. JOSLIN: I think that would probably be something be, in line -- I think probably if we have to -- going to a motion to grant that he can continue the process, I think I would still like to possibly put him on the agenda for next month and bring a full packet before us and let's take a another look at it before we grant the license. Without just letting -- going through staff. I can see you have some concern. Does that need to be in the form of a motion? MR. NEALE: A motion has be made, but I don't believe a second -- or, you were considering a motion. I don't think you made one. What would be is just the Board can make a statement to Mr. Guiterrez as to what's going on and this can be tabled until next month and staff can be requested to put it on the agenda for next month so there's a time certain for Mr. Gutierrez so he knows when it's going to be heard. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: March 15th, Mr. Guiterrez. MR. GUTIERREZ: Fine. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let's go ahead and do the motion first. MR. JOSLIN: Okay. The motion is going to be to approve his ability to be able to take the test -- oh, I'm sorry -- to apply for his license and we, the Board here, is going to waive the testing requirements for his experience. MR. NEALE: I would suggest that the motion not include the waiver of testing requirements at this point because of the lack of evidence. So I would suggest if you're going to make a motion, make Page 19 February 15,2006 a motion to allow him to proceed with the application and to return to this board for review of the testing portion -- review of the full application at next scheduled meeting. MR. LEWIS: Excuse me. Point of order. I don't think we really need a motion here because the gentleman is just coming up as a discussion question. He was added to the agenda to ask us if he could be able to proceed. I think if the Board so feels, tell Mr. Guitterez to go ahead and proceed with the full application and it will come before the Board next month anyway. MR. JOSLIN: Exactly. That's what I think too. MR. NEALE: I agree with Mr. Lewis on that one. It can just be direction. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: In a nutshell, we're not going to hold you up for the 74, but we want to see the full application. And understand the caution that we take. We do -- we live by 75 percent or better. And if we just flippantly open it up and immediately pass it, we'll have a line out that door. So, next meeting is March 15th. Go ahead and put the whole packet together, and come before us and we'll take action at that time. MR. GUTIERREZ: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. LEWIS: Mr. Gutierrez? Be understanding that we have to be careful here, like the chairman says. Please make sure you have these Affidavits as directed in 22-183 and I think you'll be fine. MR. GUTIERREZ: I will. Thank you. MR. LEWIS: Thank you. MR. GUTIERREZ: I have a silly question. Where do I get the application? MR. BARTOE: At our office on Horseshoe Drive. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Contractor Licensing. MR. GUTIERREZ: It's a generic form, I just go and ask for it and fill it out and submit it? Page 20 February 15, 2006 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It will take you a month to put it together. MR. GUTIERREZ: Okay. Thanks for the month. MR. BARTOE: One thing sir that takes a little bit of time, you have to order a credit report sent to our department. MR. GUTIERREZ: Okay. MR. BARTOE: From a credit reporting agency. MR. LEWIS: Is it not Maggie he needs to see at Contractor Licensing? MR. GUTIERREZ: That's who I usually speak to. MR. BARTOE: Maggie will give you everything necessary. MR. GUTIERREZ: Thank you for your time. I appreciate it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: See you soon. For those that we've already taken -- done something with, we're not as entertaining as Judge Judy, but you're welcome to stay if you want, but you can leave. MR. JOSLIN: We don't yell either. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I say that very carefully because Judge Judy lives here. MR. LEWIS: I was enjoying the company. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: In fact, Judge Judy is welcome any time. Might be an interesting Board meeting. Not that they aren't already. Okay. Moving on to public hearings. Case number 2006-03, Collier County versus Santos Guevara, Jr, D/B/A Tropical Shield of Florida, Incorporated. Are you here? MS. KELLER: That's the letter. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's the letter. Oh boy. We've all got the letter. Mr. Neale, I'll give you the stage, sir. Should I read the letter first, and let you -- MR. NEALE: I don't know whether I've actually brought the letter with me. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let me read the letter. Page 21 February 15,2006 MR. NEALE: Here it is. I've got it. There's a letter from Mr. Robert Vaughn, Esquire, an attorney, representing Mr. Guevara, who states that he represents -- I'll read it for the record, and we'll provide a copy to the court reporter for the record. I represent Santos Guevara, Junior and Tropical Shield of Florida in a Chapter 13 and Chapter 7 bankruptcy respectively. I'm in receipt of your correspondence to my clients dated January 23, 2006 regarding complaints by various individuals. I have enclosed notices which were sent to each individual listed on the aforementioned correspondence. Please review the notice carefully and pay special attention to the box labeled creditors may not take section actions. As you can see, an automatic stay is in place and prevents any action against Mr. Guevara and Tropical Shield of Florida, Inc. Please direct all inquiries and other complaints to legal counsel of their choosing to assist in the understanding of the automatic stay and preparation of the proof of claim. Please be governed accordingly. Mr. Zachary and I both reviewed this over the course of the last month. We did some research and we also analyzed it from a logical and legal point of view, which isn't necessarily the same thing sometimes. It's my opinion, and Mr. Zachary I'm sure will weigh in with his opinion. It's my opinion that an automatic stay granted by the bankruptcy court does not stay licensure application -- actions regarding a person's professional licensure. It might, if he were found in violation of the code and was assessed a fine or other damages, it might stay the collection actions for those damages. But it's my opinion that it would not stay the actual licensure application -- or licensure action. The analogy that I would use is it would be as if a doctor was being pursued for malpractice and he was being pursued by the state DBPR for his license, and that by filing bankruptcy the doctor could stay the action against getting his medical license removed. Or similarly an attorney could stay any action taken by the Bar to disbar him simply by filing a bankruptcy action. It is not the Page 22 February 15,2006 intent of the bankruptcy code in any way that I've ever interpreted it or read it to stay professional licensure actions, or any action such as that. The other analogy that Mr. Zachary and I used, it would be a very convenient way to get out of a murder charge. Is if it stays all actions against a person, then someone could murder someone and simply file for bankruptcy and it would stay the prosecution of the murder charge. So, its our opinion that Mr. Guevara still is subject to the jurisdiction of this Board for actions against his license. Mr. Zachary, you might want to comment. MR. ZACHARY: I just want to add that I'm looking at section 362 of the bankruptcy code and it says -- I'll paraphrase -- that a filing of a petition does not operate as a stay for the withholding, suspension, or restriction of a professional or occupational license. And then it goes on. That in particular is what we're doing here. We're taking an action against his license. We're not trying to enforce any liens or any claims against the estate -- not the estate, but against the bankrupt, the one that filed bankruptcy. So, it's my opinion that we can proceed against his license. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's all I need to hear. And proper service was given as evidenced by the letter from the attorney. And I assume they felt that letter was all they had to do, and they're not going to show up. We are going to hear this case today. And we are going to take action on this case today even though they're absent. However, as chairman of this Board, I'm going to show the courtesy to the people that are here waiting for the next case. And should someone be watching, you need to get in the car and get here real quick, because this case, we're just going to table it for the moment and I'm going to the second case. MR. ZACHARY: Just as a side, Mr. Chairman, I think staffhas been in contact with the attorney subsequent to this letter and informed him that we were -- it was our intention to proceed; is that Page 23 February 15,2006 correct? MR. BARTOE: I'm sorry? MR. ZACHARY: You've been in contact with the attorney? MR. BARTOE: Alan Kennette left a message, I believe, with the attorney yesterday that we definitely do plan to proceed today. MR. ZACHARY: Okay. Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Moving on for the moment. Case number 2006-041 Collier County versus Todd Grup, D/B/A T.A.G. Professional Carpentry, LLC. Are you all present? MR. GRUP: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. If everyone would come forward. Who are your people, Michael? MR. OSSORIO: Good morning, Mr. Chairman. Michael Ossorio, Collier County Contractor Licensing. Before we get -- before we get started -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I just want to know who your people are. I don't want you to start yet. MR. OSSORIO: Well, I just want to make sure we get this into evidence before we proceed. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. OSSORIO: We have -- Mrs. Cruz is here, Mr. Grup is here. But I believe Mr. Grup will probably want to make a statement, an opening statement to the fact that he is -- understands what the ramifications are what he did and he wants to go ahead and go to the penalty phase, if there is such a thing as a penalty phase. MR. JOSLIN: I'd like to hear the evidence before we do that so we know what the penalties are going to be. MR. OSSORIO: Well, ifhe stipulates to the evidence that he violated the section 4.1 -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That will come out. MR. OSSORIO: That will come out in his testimony. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let me gain control here. First of all, Page 24 February 15,2006 the public hearing the way it's held, county will present their evidence -- you both make opening statements. I might go with you first this time. No, I won't. I'll stay with the county in an opening statement so we have an overview, then you can make your opening statement. If you want to admit to the problem and go straight to the penalty phase, that's something we can decide at that time if we want to do. It will be our decision. Then both of you will present your case, introduce witnesses, whatever. You will have a chance to ask questions of any witness and vice versa. Then we'll make closing statements. We will close public hearings. Once we close public hearings we have a discussion here and decide what we're going to do with the case and you just listen. MR. GRUP: Okay. Very good. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So let's do this. Mr. Ossorio, go ahead and give us an opening statement as to the case so we have an understanding of it. MR. OSSORIO: Before we get started with the opening case, can we have this admitted into evidence, please? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. Exhibit A composite, case number 2006-04. Need a motion to introduce this as evidence. MR. JOSLIN: So moved, Joslin. MR. BLUM: Second, Blum. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those approved? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Done. Continue. MR. OSSORIO: Good morning. On January 16, 2006, Mrs. Letich of 320 Neapolitan Way entered into a contract with Page 25 February 15,2006 TAG. Professional Carpentry, LLC. The company was hired to repair the tile roof areas that were damaged by the hurricane. The homeowner was assured by TAG that all permits and inspections would be issued. On January 23,2006, homeowner was notified that T.AG. Professional Carpentry wasn't a licensed state or local roofing contractor and no permits were pulled and no inspections. Indeed Mr. Grup's qualifier of TAG. Professional Carpentry only has a license for cabinet installing, which is a two-hour exam. MR. LEWIS: Mr. Chairman, do we need to have Mr. Ossorio sworn in? MR. NEALE: Uh-huh. Ifhe's going to be giving testimony, which he has just done. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. We have to go ahead and have him sworn (Sworn) MR. OSSORIO: 400 -- Is that it, Mr. Ossorio? MR. OSSORIO: That's it, Mr. Dickson. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Mr. Grup. I'm seeing two spellings here. Is it G-R-U-P-P. MR. GRUP: G-R-U-P, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: GRUP? MR. GRUP: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you would state your name and I'll have you sworn in, sir. MR. GRUP: My name is Todd Grup, G-R-U-P. (Sworn) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Opening statement. Go ahead. MR. GRUP: I would just like to say that we did a few roof repairs after Hurricane Wilma not knowing that our roofing license was required to do the tile repairs. We have a cabinet and millwork license and a handyman license and we were unaware that there was an exam required to repair the tiles. I've since this incident signed up Page 26 February 15,2006 to take the exam on the 18th -- the roofing exam, so that we can comply with the county requirements. That's all I have to say. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So basically you agree that you were working without a license; is that it? MR. GRUP: Yes, I am at fault. But I'd like to add that the work was completed and there was no transfer of payment. The contract was $4,400, and we didn't receive any money for the work. We'd like to continue doing roofing before we take the exam. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Give me an idea of the scope of the work? What was involved? How many tiles? MR. GRUP: The scope of work was repairing the hip and ridge, regluing it, color matching it. Remortoring where necessary on the hip and ridge, and then there were field tiles that were also damaged that were reglued. Number of tiles -- I don't know how many tiles were repaired or replaced. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: How long were you on the job? MR. GRUP: Approximately four days. Four to five days. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: How many men? MR. GRUP: Three men. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. JOSLIN: How was the -- how was the contract arrived at? How did you meet the complainants here? MR. GRUP: At the time I had a salesman that had contracted the work for our company. MR. JOSLIN: So as a cabinet installer you were out trying to canvass work to do roofing repairs? MR. GRUP: That's correct. It was -- after the hurricane we had done a couple repairs for a builder and, unknowingly we thought that our handyman license would cover us to do the minor repairs on tile roofing, and we discovered that that was not the case. All we want to do is comply and continue doing the roof repairs. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I really don't buy that. How would Page 27 February 15,2006 you feel if I as a roofing contractor was doing cabinet work, and I said, oh, I thought my roofing license applied to cabinetry. MR. GRUP: Well, there was a moritorium. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: There is no moritorium. MR. GRUP: Well, I was misunderstood. I thought there was a moritorium. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And I know from my licensing, plus the other contractors up here know from their licensing what their license approves and doesn't approve and what the limitations of their license are. It's pretty weak. Don't say you didn't know, you were out looking for hurricane work outside of the scope of your license. MR. GRUP: I can honestly tell you I didn't know. I didn't know it was required, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And I don't believe that. MR. GRUP: Okay. Very good. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Neale. MR. NEALE: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Direction. Just go ahead and do a finding of fact and without presentation of evidence, since he has admitted that. MR. NEALE: You can. However, you're going to need evidence to decide on the sanctions. So, you know, you can do the findings of fact and I'll, you know -- we can discuss -- you can discuss what the sanctions would be based on the things that need to be considered. If you want, I can go through the charge, if not, you can go straight ahead. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I think I really need to hear more because there's so many questions, like did someone else work on it afterwards? Have there been problems? Does the Board agree? MR. LEWIS: I agree. MR. BLUM: Yeah. I'm curious to know -- I mean, he sounds like he knows a little bit about rooves. He's saying some of the right Page 28 February 15,2006 buzz words here. I mean, where did he get his expertise as a carpenter, framer type of person, and know enough to glue and mortar and ridges and valleys and all those things with tiles, get the tile and match. I mean, he's got to be doing this for a while to know this stuff. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes, sir. MR. OSSORIO: We do have Terry Cruz. She's the granddaughter of the complainant, Ms. Leidich, and she will probably shed some light on that what you're trying to derive at. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let's go ahead and do the case, Mr. Ossorio. MR. OSSORIO: Very well. DICKSON cHAIRMAN: If you would, go ahead and have a seat. At this time the county will come forward and present their evidence. Mr. Grup, you can just have a seat right there if you want. MR. GRUP: Okay. MR. OSSORIO: The county calls Terry Cruz. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mrs. Cruz, if you want, you can come over here to this podium. Michael is going to do this? I need for you, if you would, state your name and then I'll have you sworn m. MS. CRUZ: My name is Terry Lopez Cruz. (Sworn) MR. OSSORIO: Good morning, Ms. Cruz. MS. CRUZ: Good morning. MR. OSSORIO: Ms. Cruz, for the Board members, can you please shed some light on, have you -- do you know TAG. Professional Carpentry, and do you know, did they work on your grandmother's house for a period of time in January oflast year? MS. CRUZ: Yes. I didn't know anything about this company prior to my grandmother calling me and complaining about one of the Page 29 February 15, 2006 representatives harassing her for a payment after they did a job on her roof. So, I contacted the salesperson that was trying to get payment to get an estimate, because she didn't have an estimate or a proposal. And that's when I met with the representative from their company personally and was able to -- he wasn't able to provide me with a copy of the original. So he wrote me out one after the work had already been completed. My grandmother had given the go ahead on the work, and she had asked for the proper permits and credentials and she was assured that she would have this. And when they asked -- when he asked for $1,000 down, she said, well, I'm not going to be able to do that. So she just assumed that the job wasn't going to be done. She came home from the grocery store one day and she said that they were all over her roof and she was surprised to see this. And then after that the representative from TAG was at her house virtually every day asking for payment. I heard that this gentleman over here said that they had spent four days on the roof, and I wasn't there to see this, but, according to my grandmother, they were in and out of there so quickly her head was spinning. And she was in a panic about the way this guy was approaching her for payment afterwards, so, that's when I became involved. I do have another comment to make. And that's, prior to this whole incident, State Farm Insurance Company sent an adjuster __ excuse me -- sent an adjuster out that determined that the whole roof needed to be replaced. And they have awarded her monies to get that done. We are in the process of obtaining estimates for that. MR. JOSLIN: That was after the repair was made? MS. CRUZ: The adjuster made this statement before the repair was made. And right now we're trying to get roofers out there to give us an estimate. MR. OSSORIO: Mrs. Crews, so you're telling the Licensing Board as of January 23rd, TAG professional Carpentry employees, or salesmen, were up and down the street knocking on doors to repair Page 30 February 15,2006 roofs? MS. CRUZ: This is what my grandmother said. I asked her if she thought they were legitimate, and she goes they must be because they're doing the whole neighborhood. So, I said, well, make sure you ask for the proper credentials because this was before she talked to me on the 16th, or somewhere around there, and she said that that's what was going on. And I said, well, make sure they're legitimate. And so she did ask all the right questions. MR. OSSORIO: Thank you, Ms. Cruz. The county has no other questions. MS. CRUZ: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Grup, do you have any questions of the witness? MR. GRUP: No, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Thank you very much. MS. CRUZ: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Ossorio. MR. OSSORIO: We're ready to proceed on to closing argument. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. At this time Mr. Grup, do you have any evidence you want to present? MR. GRUP: No, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Go ahead, Mr. Ossorio. This is going to be a quick one. MR. OSSORIO: On January 24, '06 we had a meeting with Mr. Grup, qualifier for carpentry LLC, T.AG. He was notified that he was in violation of Section of the 2002-21 ordinance of Contractor Licensing Sections 4.1.2. He acknowledges it. He's here today to face his sanctions, and we believe that you should find him guilty of those charges and assess penalties in the penalty phase. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Grup, do you have a closing statement? MR. GRUP: No, sir. Page 31 February 15,2006 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. This is going to be the quickest one on record. I need a motion to -- unless you all have any questions of anyone. Anybody have any questions? I need a motion to close public hearing. MR. LEWIS: So moved. MR. JOSLIN: Second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. At this point basically, we've heard all we're going to hear and we'll just deliberate among ourselves. First issue off the bat, let's look at the charge itself and then we'll go into the penalty. The question I have here -- Mr. Neale jump in here real quick, personally I think this is a state charge. A felony charge of working without a license. MR. NEALE: That's up to the state to bring those charges and-- MR. OSSORIO: This case is going through DBPR but there is, I believe there's going to have to be some kind of financial harm, aspect of money being paid. And that's a good thing for Mr. Grup that he not received any payment for work being done. So with that said, DBPR is probably going to let us handle it from our licensing Board for working out of the scope of his license, and I'm sure the state has many things to do besides this. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. So what we need to do first get the charge. Are we in agreement there? Is that what -- everyone is nodding heads at me. I need a motion then on the charge. MR. JOSLIN: I make the motion that we find Mr. Todd Grup guilty of Count One, Section 4.1.2, contracted to do work outside the Page 32 February 15,2006 scope of his competency as listed in his competency card and defined in this ordinance, whereas restricted by the Contractor Licensing Board. MR. LEWIS: Second, Lewis. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any discussion? Okay. Call for a vote. All those in favor. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? Findings of fact. Let me read it real quick here. Finding of fact. Conclusions of law decision of the Board of Collier County Contractor Licensing Board, case number 2006-04. Board of County Commissioners, Collier County Florida versus Todd Grup, D/B/A TAG. Professional Carpentry, LLC. License number 26457. This cause came on for public hearing before the Contractor Licensing Board on February 15, 2006. Stand by one minute. I've got it Mr. Neale. MR. NEALE: Okay. I can bring it up. MR. BLUM: While you're doing that, can I ask one question of Mr. Grup? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. Oh, we've got to reopen. MR. BLUM: Oh, I'm sorry. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Not now. MR. BLUM: All right. Nevermind. Let me know when. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. NEALE: And I'll address it at the penalty phase once you're finished with the findings phase. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Here we go. For consideration of the administrative complaint filed against Todd A Grup, service of Page 33 February 15,2006 complaint was made by certified mail in accordance with Collier County ordinance 90-105 as amended. The board having heard testimony under oath, received evidence, heard arguments respective to all appropriate matters, thereupon issues its finding of fact conclusions of the Board, in order of the Board, as follows: That Todd A Grup is the holder of Certificate Of Competency number 26457. That Board of Collier County Commissioners of Collier County Florida is the complainant in this matter. That the Board has jurisdiction of the person of the respondent and that Todd Grup was present at the public hearing and was not represented by counsel. All notices required by Collier County ordinance 90-105 as amended have been properly issued. The allegations set forth in the administrative complaint are approved, which are One Count 4.1.2, contracting to do work outside the scope of his competency as listed on the competency card and defined in this ordinance or as restricted by the Collier County licensing Board. Incorporated herein, findings of fact is that he is guilty. Conclusions oflaw allege and set forth in the administrative complaint are approved by a vote of six to zero. Now we can go into the penalty phase. Mr. Neale. MR. NEALE: Right. Since you found the respondent in violation of the Collier County ordinance, the Board must decide the sanctions to be imposed. The sanctions are set out in the codified ordinance in Section 22.203, and in the revised ordinance in Section 4.3.5. The sanctions which may be imposed include one, revocation of the Certificate of Competency; two, suspension of the Certificate of Competency; three, denial of issuance or renewal of a Certificate of Competency; four, probation of a reasonable length, not to exceed two years, during which time the contractors contracting activities shall be under the supervision of the Contractor Licensing Board and/or participation in a duly accredited program of continuing education. Probation may be revoked for cause by the Board at a hearing noticed for such purpose. Five, restitution. Six, a fine not to exceed $5,000. Page 34 February 15,2006 Seven, a public reprimand. Eight, a re-examination requirement. Nine, denial of the issuance of permits orrequiring issuance of permits with conditions. And ten, reasonable legal and investigative costs. In reviewing the sanctions to be imposed, the Contractor Licensing Board shall consider, first the gravity of the violation. Second, the impact of the violation. Third, any actions taken by the violator to correct the violation. Four, any previous violations committed by the violator. And five, any other evidence presented at the hearing by the parties that is relevant as to the sanction that is appropriate for the case given the nature of the violation. The Board also shall issue a recommended penalty to the State Contractor Licensing Board, and that penalty may include a recommendation of no further action, a recommendation of suspension, revocation or restriction of the registration, or a fine to be levied by the board. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Couple of questions, Mr. Neale, that are going to go come up. The license at issue here has nothing to do with the work that's been done. And so how do we react to that? That's one question. And number two, since he was paid nothing, there's no monetary loss. MR. JOSLIN: And three, since their State Farm Insurance has now offered, to, or attempted to do, completely redo the whole roof in it's entirety. There's no damages. MR. NEALE: And the issue is there mayor may not be any monetary damages. That evidence showed -- appears to indicate there were none. However, there was still a violation of the ordinance in that he was operating outside the scope of his license. So, therefore, while restitution may not be appropriate, basically all the other sanctions would be available. MR. BLUM: To my mind, there's a four. He's now applying to be a roofing contractor with another license with another opportunity and I'm troubled by that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. Page 35 February 15, 2006 MR. BLUM: And I don't know what we can do about it, but I'm just raising that spectre, that's all. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I hear that all the time. I don't know if that bridge will ever be crossed. MR. BLUM: I just had to bring it up. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It doesn't eliminate what I think is the gravity of the situation. I've got a group of unlicensed people. I don't care if he has another license. He's unlicensed in this trade. Walking down a street ringing a door bell doing work without a signed proposal, which I never do work without a signed proposal. MR. BLUM: Nobody does. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And then strong arming people for payment when it's a verbal contest as to whether they approved the work. I'm really bothered by that. MR. BLUM: Well, the other part, this gentleman Brian, my initial thought was, maybe Brian just happened on this house and tried to help this lady out unknowingly. I'm giving the guy the benefit all the way down the line. Then I'm hearing that potentially Brian has been canvassing the neighborhood. And Brian's got to know his company does carpentry, it doesn't do rooves. So who is Brian? He's operating with Mr. Grup's knowledge and consent. Is he operating outside the scope? Is he still there? Has he been reprimanded? Has this been a mistake that been taken care of? Brian to me is the key part of this situation. How is he operating? MR. JOSLIN: Maybe that's something we can maybe open the public hearing back up again and hear Mr. Grup's comments. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let's think about it for a minute before we do that. Again, you're just listening to our deliberations. I've already got the license holder admitting that he did it. He's aware of who Brian is. He's aware he was an agent acting on behalf of the license holder. It's a moot issue. MR. BLUM: To my mind the penalty part has got to do with Page 36 February 15, 2006 intent as much as anything else. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But even his testimony said he wasn't paid. MR. BLUM: Not for that job, but how many did he do that he did get paid for that we don't know about? To me that's a lot to do with Brian and how he operated and whose consent was he operating under. That's why I have a problem with it. I don't know what else is done that we don't know about. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, but we don't have that in front of us. MR. BLUM: No, I know. I just got to bring it up. MS. KELLER: I have a problem with the business practice. That you see even if he was licensed, if you were to pass the test and apply for a roofing license, I mean, the business practice of starting work without a contract is just something that really concerns me. MR. JOSLIN: I think if all Board members remember, there was an emergency meeting that was called when this hurricane hit this town. And at that time, I know Contractor Licensing went out and put up signs all over the county that doing unlicensed work in this county was a felony. Now I think that right off the top, this has to be treated just that way. The gentleman was wrong, he knows he was wrong. He admitted he was wrong. So, I don't think there's anything else except to try to impose the penalty as Collier County would want us to do. Or those signs don't mean a thing. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Ossorio, what's the county's recommendation? MR. OSSORIO: $500 penalty, and one year probation. And with that one year, we want to see him get licensed as a roofing contractor. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Or else what? MR OSSORIO: Well, ifhe can't pass the exam, he can't pass the exam. I mean, I'm not a fortune teller. The reason why we brought Page 37 February 15,2006 this case to the Board is we want it to be on TV so people can see it, and ifthere's any concerns that TAG. Carpentry did, maybe we'll shed some more light on that and we'll be back in front of the Board again. You know, he's only one person to me, it's only one person. I'm in the city. I can't canvass the area. I can't knock on every single door, but it's something that needs to be heard and addressed. MS. KELLER: Are there other complaints against him or his company? MR. OSSORIO: Not that I know of. But I know he's done work out there in the past. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm always bothered that someone would contract with someone who knocks on their door. When someone knocks on your door, it just throws up so many red flags. MS. KELLER: But there was no contract. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, but that's it. They knock on your door, why are they knocking on your door? I'm back logged a year as a licensed contractor. They have to be unlicensed. But here, and then they go ahead and do the work without approval. I know what he said he did, but -- And then I've got elderly people that are intimidated and scared when people are trying to strong arm collection. So that's what the county wants on this case, and then you're sending it to the state, is that my understanding? MR OSSORIO: The state has copies. We only can do what we can do. The state has their own method and their own procedures. If they feel that this case will go forward to the State Attorney's Office, they will. It's an uphill battle when there's no payment. There's only advertisement. Advertising without a licenses is a misdemeanor and a felony. Depends if it meets that threshold. But this gentleman is licensed with us. We have a duty to bring it to your attention. He's taken a two hour exam to be a cabinet installer. He's not even a full blown carpentry license contractor. He's a cabinet installer. Millwork, trim. Page 38 February 15,2006 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: My recommendation is, to the Board, that we follow county's recommendation. MR. JOSLIN: I think we ought to follow-- MR. BLUM: I categorically disagree. MR. JOSLIN: The fine should be more. MR. BLUM: Excessively more. Ifthere's some way we can put his yet to be determined roofing license on probation, when and if he does it, I'd like to do that. I certainly want him to be on probation a lot longer than a year, and I positively want a bigger fine. This to me is blatant. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Neale, guidance, legally. MR. NEALE: Yes. Maximum probation is two years. The fines can be up to $5,000, subject to the pleasure of the Board. There is a consideration to be brought in the consideration of sanctions as to the efforts by the violator to correct the violation, which in this case would be getting the roofing license. He's attempting to correct what he did wrong in the future. But certainly it's within the purview of this Board to impose the maximum fine if they so see fit and the maximum probation length. And the Board can also request that, require that any future licensure applications would come before this Board for further reView. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Would you also review what our options are for recommendations to the State? MR. NEALE: Sure. You have three possibilities of recommendation to the state. One is a recommendation of no further action. Second is a recommendation of suspension, revocation or restriction of the registration of his license, or a fine to be levied by the State Construction Industry Licensing Board. Now the state has the ability, because of the amendment to 489, which has not yet been incorporated in Collier County ordinance to impose a fine of up to $10,000 now. MR. BARTOE: If! may. Page 39 February 15,2006 MR. NEALE: Uh-huh. MR. BARTOE: Carpentry license is not registered with the state. MR. NEALE: So they have no jurisdiction over him. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So there is no recommendation to the state in our order? MR. BARTOE: Not in this situation, I believe. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you. MR. OSSORIO: The finding of facts will be delivered to DBPR for their investigation of Mr. Grup being not licensed. But the hurdle is still there because there's no monetary money taken. So, with that said, I'll walk it up to Fort Myers myself and hand deliver it. And we've done that in the past. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm thrilled for your grandparents that no money was exchanged. Okay. MR. JOSLIN: I'm make a motion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Ready for a motion? Let's go. MR. JOSLIN: I'm going to recommend that we go to the full extent of this case. I'm going to recommend that we have a $5,000 fine imposed and his cabinet license be placed on probation for a period of two years, and that any future roofing license, or any other licenses he should apply for will come before this Board before it's approved by staff or anyone else. MR. BLUM: I'll second that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion. MR. LEWIS: Can you run that by my again? Was there any penalty? MR. BLUM: $5,000. MR. JOSLIN: $5,000. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You've maxed everything. That's the maximum in all categories, is it not, Mr. Neale? MR. NEALE: All the relevant ones, yes. Page 40 February 15,2006 MR. JOSLIN: Did I miss anything? MR. NEALE: Nope. MR. BLUM: Good job. MR. LEWIS: Mr. Neale, can you give us one more time the criteria for our consideration in the penalty phase? MR. NEALE: Certainly. The criteria -- the Board has five criteria to consider. The gravity of the violation, the impact of the violation, actions taken to correct the violation, previous violations committed and any other evidence presented by the parties relevant to the sanction that is appropriate to the case, given the nature of the case. MR. LEWIS: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So, repeat, we're calling for a $5,000 fine, which is maximum, two year probation, which is maximum, and the third issue is, review by this Board of any other applications for licenses in other categories. Is that correct? And we cannot make a recommendation to the state because his current license is not something that is covered by the state licensing. MR. BLUM: Mr. Ossorio will make the state aware of our findings. MR. OSSORIO: They will be. MR. BLUM: Absolutely. Thank you. MR. NEALE: And just so this Board knows, every one of these orders gets transmitted to the state, Construction Industry Licensing Board so they get a copy. MR. BLUM: I like the hand delivered to the appropriate authorities. I like that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any further discussion? MR. BOYD: I have some. I have to weigh in on this situation. I think we're on a witch hunt here and I apologize to all the parties involved. But I just don't see it here. That's why I asked Mr. Neale to read again the criteria for our decision. Our decision has to be the Page 4] February 15,2006 gravity. I agree the gravity of the situation here and the committing of the action of working outside the scope of his license is severe and needs to be duly punished. The impact is minimal at best. The lady has a roof. As far as we know, there's no leaks. I can't see from the pictures whether it's good, bad or indifferent. It looks like it's complete. The job was done in a timely fashion and manner. It appears that from case summary that from composite A that the homeowner actually did contract with the quote, unquote contractor at this point with the T.AG. Group to do the roof repairs. Evidently there was a sum discussed. Evidently there was a sum agreed upon. They asked for a down payment. She said she didn't have it. They went ahead and proceeded with the work. I know as a general contractor, I've done that myself. People don't have the down payment, I go ahead and do the work and we'll work it out in the end. So the impact I think is minimal at this point. The action that the gentleman from T.AG. is taking is that he has applied to take a roofing license. He is trying to correct his actions. He swears that he didn't know before, I can't argue that point against him. Previous actions, as far as we're aware, there are no previous actions against him. Nothing has been brought since this notice, or prior to this notice. And we have no other evidence that he's been doing what he's doing except for Mr. Ossorio saying that he's been in the neighborhood, and Ms. Cruz saying that he's been in the neighborhood canvassing the neighborhood. If there was a problem, I think the neighborhood would have found out about it by now and brought it to someone's attention. So I can't see any other impact to the neighborhood. I think what we're doing here, I can't agree with it personally. Five thousand dollar fine. And the fact that he's done the work, evidently it's been done properly because there's no complaint about the work that I've heard, and he's not accepted any monies for it. He's already down $4,400, and I don't see that as an unjust amount of money. Page 42 February 15,2006 MR. JOSLIN: I totally disagree with you. MS. KELLER: Well, he's not down $4,400, because a lot of that was his profit. So what were his materials, and what were his costs. MR. LEWIS: Well, I disagree. If you've got guys running around on the top of a roof for four days, I guarantee you, by the time that you pay -- and I have to assume the man's got his worker's comp because nothing has been brought against us -- or to us that says he doesn't. I have to assume that he has liability insurance because nothing has been brought to us or presented to us that he doesn't. By the time he pays his manpower, pays his insurances, pays his Federal taxes, pays his state unemployment, and all the other things that he has to pay, I'll guarantee you, he doesn't have a whole lot of profit on this job. MS. KELLER: Which actually brings up another point, because if he's not licensed to have the workers up on the roof, does the workman's comp cover if something had happened to one of the people who was injured? MR. LEWIS: It doesn't come into play. It's not part of our charge. MS. KELLER: Actually, there is-- MR. BLUM: Yeah, it is. All relevant information. MR. LEWIS: Contracting outside his competency license. MS. KELLER: And the homeowner was put in a position where people were not covered being on the roof doing work. So, it didn't happen, but it put the homeowner at risk. MR. LEWIS: It's not part of what we're here to hear. We're here to hear Count One 4.1.2 contracting to do work outside the scope of his competency. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If! can weigh in. The old timer on this Board that's been on it for longer than I want to remember, this is the first time I can remember that the Board has gone for a substantially stricter and harsher penalty than what county has Page 43 February 15,2006 requested. In fact, a lot of times we are more lenient than county requests for reasons, but I'm tempted here -- that's why I asked Mr. Ossorio what the County's recommendation was. I want to stay with that recommendation. Specifically that's what the county wants, that's what Mr. Ossorio feels that he needs to proceed on to the state with. And, Bill, your point is well taken also. MR. BOYD: Well, I'll agree with Mr. Lewis. I'll go along with the probation for two years, but I'm not voting for a $5,000 fine, that's just way too -- way too harsh. I mean, the gentleman showed up. He could have just said, you know, thumb his nose and go about his business, but he is here. He admitted he did it. That goes along way with me. I mean, last month we let somebody off that nailed a homeowner for $30,000. We just, you know, let him kind of walk away, and I'll bet he never pays that. Now we've got somebody that's here. He admitted he did wrong. Whether he goes for his roofing license or not, I think he's probably learned his lesson, and I will not vote for $5,000 fine. MR. JOSLIN: Well, I think the fine's got to be more than $500. That's a slap on the wrist for anybody who wants to do work in Collier County here and go do roofing repairs -- go out and do masonry wall and fix a roof, and it's okay and we're going to let it happen. I don't go for it now. I might reduce the motion for the amount, but it's not going to be $500. No way. MR. BLUM: I don't have a problem with the lowering of the dollar amount. To my mind, this was blatant taking advantage of a situation, i.e. hurricane repairs. This man, to my mind, knowingly sent a representative out canvassing a neighborhood -- and we all know where this neighborhood is. It's more or less affluent homes. People can afford to make repairs. Maybe he was a little bit slow. I'm all speculation, I agree. I haven't heard anything to the contrary. And what I hear leads me to think this way. I can't help it. He had to know what his salesman was doing. Mr. Ossorio has indicated that there are Page 44 February 15, 2006 more than one, possibly several that have had this work done. The reason they don't come forward, who knows. They're part-time residents. They're not even here. They don't even know about it. If the roof isn't leaking, they don't give a damn. We've run into this apathy many, many times before. The point that people haven't come forward, doesn't do anything for me. He took advantage of a situation, knowingly and blatantly didn't get a contract, because he couldn't get a permit and everybody knew it. I think this is just a blatant excuse to take advantage of a situation which is what we're here to prevent. MR. JOSLIN: Exactly. I agree with you totally. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. I'm going to go call for the vote. We have a motion on the board -- on the floor and a second. $5,000 fine, two-year probation, and review by this board of any future license applications. MR. BLUM: Maybe Mr. Joslin will lower the dollar amount and that will make it more amenable to all of us. If he wants to lower it to say $1,000 as part of his motion. Would you like to amend your motion? MR. JOSLIN: Tell you what I'll do, for the comments made by Mr. Lewis and Mr. Boyd, I'll go for the benefit of the doubt and split it in half for $2,500. I'm going to make an example of this case, or then I'll be voting the wrong way. That's all. I'm not going to let this slide through. I just can't do it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. I have an amendment for $2,500 fine, everything else stays in place. MR. JOSLIN: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Can I have a second to the amended? MR. BLUM: I second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. Page 45 February 15,2006 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: How many? All those opposed? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It dies for lack of a majority. I need a new motion. I'm going to make a motion. $500 fine, one year probation. I'm not going to say anything about any future licenses, because we have a phenomenal county staff, and they'll take care of that. That's my motion, $500 fine and one year probation. I need a second before we can discuss. MR. LEWIS: I'll second that motion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Otherwise it dies for lack ofa second. Okay. Second. Discussion. MR. LEWIS: Just the discussion on that, I agree with that only to the extent that when I look at the case summary and the evidence presented, I find it hard to believe that within one week's time we can have a $4,000 roofing job done, completed, accepted, and no monies given out to anybody. And then a report made that all of a sudden we have unlicensed contractor activities. It just boggles my mind. Seems like there's more probably to this than meets the eye, or that was presented. Mr. Grup is, like Mike had said, he's here. He's willing to face the penalties. He's accepted whatever the Board determines to him, and I think we're being more than just in all phases. And I don't want this to seem like I'm a very easy person on unlicensed contractor activity. I think certainly the staff can let you know that even as of this morning, I brought in an investigative report that Mr. Bartoe is going to look into of a possible unlicensed activity. So I'm not -- I'm actually quite a hard nose on that. But I think the remedy for this situation is just. MS. KELLER: You said that you think there's more than what we've seen. Can you maybe ask some more questions about that? MR. LEWIS: No, I can't. Page 46 February 15,2006 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No. And I know this -- first of all, I'm a state certified license roofing contractor, I of anybody should be the one most upset. But I know the staff for the licensing Board, Collier County Contractor Licensing, and there is more going on here than what's been presented, and that's why I'm following staffs recommendation because I have so much confidence in them and I'm going to let them handle it. MS. KELLER: I have a problem with that. I can't make a decision at all now, because I've been told that there's something I don't know about, but I'm supposed to made a decision, and I can't do that. MR. NEALE: Well, just to note, the Board has to make the decision solely on the evidence presented at this hearing on this charge, period. MR. BLUM: Not let innuendos -- MR. NEALE: Rumors, innuendos, anything else or something that the Board cannot consider. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But based on all the stuff that Mr. Lewis said also, that's why I couldn't vote for the previous motion. Because there's not a lot of hard data, and there's not a monetary loss. MR. JOSLIN: Actually, good that it's not hard data or monetary loss, because then the fine would have been a whole lot more dollars. Then we'd be talking about damages. MR. LEWIS: I can agree to that. And in this case, there doesn't appear to be any financial loss to the client, only financial gain at this point. MR. BLUM: That doesn't alter the fact that a man obviously knowingly didn't even come close to any of our statutes for licensing, sent a salesman out knowingly to recruit business he was not licensed or insured to do. The fact that this didn't turn into an absolute disaster, is a miracle. And a slap on the wrist and go ahead about your business, sorry, just doesn't do it. Now, maybe we can agree to some kind of a Page 47 February 15,2006 compromise here, but, we're at both ends of the spectrum, and I'm afraid with six people on the Board, the obvious is alot liable to kick into play here. So can we come to some agreement that we can -- all can make to get one more person to go along. That's the way we're headed. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I don't know where it stands right now, but I'm going to call for a vote. Motion on the floor, $500 fine, one year probation. All those in favor. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You and me. Two. All those opposed? MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Four opposed. It's dead. give me one we can fly with. MR. BOYD: I pose a motion, two year probation and $1,000 fine. MR. BLUM: And bring -- can I suggest that we bring before-- any new license before this Board before it's -- I personally would like to review a new license that this gentleman mayor may not get. MR. BOYD: Well, wouldn't we have to do that anyway? MR. BLUM: No, no, no. And it's not that I don't trust staff -- MR. BOYD: Ifhe passes the test, he doesn't have to fill out a packet? MR. BLUM: No. Yeah, he does a packet, he does all that, but staff can review it and approve it. MR. BOYD: Ifhe's under probation, they're going to review it anyway. MR. BLUM: Only the license that he now has. Ifhe gets a new Page 48 February 15,2006 license, we won't have anything on it until and unless he has a problem with. Between you and me, when I see a new license, I want to put that one on probation, or I'd like to at least propose that. I'd like that opportunity is what I'm saying. MR. BOYD: I'll make that part of the motion then. Ifhe does receive a new license, that it is still under, that license would be under probation also. MR. BLUM: He needs to come before us, and then as a Board we need to decide that. That's what we're here to do. So if you can make your motion that his new license application comes before this Board to be approved. MR. BOYD: I'll include that if we can get everybody to agree. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So your motion does include the third? MR. BOYD: Coming before the Board for approval. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Do I have a second? MR. BLUM: I'll second that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Discussion. MR. LEWIS: Just clarify the motion. We've got two year probation, $1,000 fine, and review by the Board of any new license. MR. BLUM: Yes. MR. JOSLIN: Still seems like a slap on the wrist. $1,000 he made probably in ten houses, other houses in other developments I bet he's done on the roof repairs. MR. BLUM: Yup. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It could be on one. All those -- call for the vote. All those in favor. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. Page 49 February 15,2006 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? MR. JOSLIN: Nay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Order of the Board, based upon the foregoing finding of facts and conclusion of law and pursuant to the authority granted in 489 Florida Statute, Collier County ordinance number 90-105, as amended by a vote of five in favor and one opposed, it is hereby ordered that the following disciplinary sanctions in related order are hereby imposed on the holder of contractors certificate of Competency number 26457, one, $1,000 fine; two, one year probation. MR. BLUM: Two years. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm sorry, it was two years. Two year probation. Three, any applications for future licenses come before this Board for review. And that's it. Mr. Grup. MR. GRUP: Pardon me, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Grup, the case is hereby closed. You have heard what the action of the Board was? MR. GRUP: Yes, I did. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Andjust, I know you're probably not doing this anymore. MR. GRUP: Pardon me? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I know you're probably not doing this anymore. MR. GRUP: No, but I intend to when I get my roofing license. I intend to continue doing it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. We thank you for your time. We thank the county for their time. This case is closed. Moving on, public hearing case number 2006-03. Collier County versus Santos G. Guevara, Jr, D/B/A Tropical Shield of Florida, Incorporated. Mr. Ossorio, the county is prepared to present their case? MR. BARTOE: Mr. Chairman, do we want to take a little break Page 50 February 15,2006 to relieve the -- do you need a break reporter? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: This is going to be quick. COURT REPORTER: That's fine. Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. NEALE: Mr. Chairman, you're going to handle that? MR. ZACHARY: I'll handle some of it, and Mr. Balzano will handle some of it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Would you introduce the exhibit, please? MR. ZACHARY: The county will introduce the packet, and since there's no one here, there will be no objection, I assume. No one showed up. This is the packet that's in case indication number 2006-03, Collier County versus Santos G. Guevara, Junior, D/B/A Tropical Shield of Florida, Inc. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And just to reiterate, Mr. Guevara was properly notified. He's represented by counsel. They are aware that we were having this hearing today, and we are moving forward with him being absent. MR. BARTOE: Mr. Chairman, staff would also like to introduce the letter from attorney Robert Vaughn as composite Exhibit B because staff feels that that is proof that they were properly notified because he said they were. He said he is in receipt of the correspondence from Mr. Kennette CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let's do this on the Board. Would someone make a motion to accept composite Exhibit A and the letter which would be Exhibit B. MR. LEWIS: So moved, Lewis. MR. BLUM: Second, Blum. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. Page 5] February 15, 2006 MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Approved. County if you'd proceed. MR. ZACHARY: Mr. Chairman, I'll make a quick opening and then I'd like to call a witness here that has so graciously stayed around for -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I didn't know there were witnesses for this one. MR. ZACHARY: Well, I thought it was going to be 15 minutes, and then a poor judge of time, it turned into 45. I appreciate them staying. Mr. Chairman, from May through August of 2005, Santos Guevara, Junior doing business, or the qualifier for Tropical Shield of Florida Incorporated took deposits from several customers to install hurricane shutters on their homes. Several months have passed since those deposits were taken. To date, no work has been done. As of January, middle of January, the cell phones for the company are out of service and a check was done on the premises where the business is located, and it appears that the unit where the business is located has been vacated. To date, no customers have received any of their deposits back. The county alleges that the company violated Section 4.1.3 of our ordinance, abandoning a construction project which he is engaged, or under contract as a contractor. I will read the whole charge. You have it there in front of you in Count Two section 4.1.8.1, fails to fulfill their contractural obligations to a customer -- contractor has abandoned the customer's job. Basically the county would ask the Board to find this company and this individual guilty of those two counts, and the county at this time would recommend that the license for this company be revoked and any other appropriate fine that might be, or sanction that might be recommended by county staff. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you have a total amount for the restitution? Page 52 February 15,2006 MR. BARTOE: Excuse me. For the record, Tom Bartoe. I believe I should be sworn in along with Mr. Kennette, and -- do we want to swear everybody in at the same time? MR. NEALE: Swear in everybody that's going to testify. MR. ZACHARY: These kind folks that decided to stay, call them first and -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let's do that. Go ahead and call them up. MR. ZACHARY: Mrs. Segal, could you come forward? I think she's the -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you would, state your name, and then I'll have you sworn in, please. MS. SEGAL: My name is Ursula Segal. MR. ZACHARY: Mrs. Segal, did you contact-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Wait. I have to have her sworn (Sworn) MR. ZACHARY: Mrs. Segal-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go ahead. MR. ZACHARY: Mrs. Segal, did you on the 26th of May of 2005 contract with Tropical Shield of Florida to install hurricane shutters on your home? MRS. SEGAL: Yes. MR. ZACHARY: I'm going to show you what's in the packet as E5. Is this the contract, or a copy of the contract? MRS. SEGAL: Yes, this is copy. MR. ZACHARY: And your signature, or your husband's signature? MRS. SEGAL: Yes, my husband's, yes. And this is the salesman. MR. ZACHARY: The salesman. And is this the amount, the $7,850. MRS. SEGAL: $7,850. Page 53 February 15,2006 MR. ZACHARY: Is that the amount you gave them for deposit? MRS. SEGAL: Yes. MR. ZACHARY: And have you received any of that deposit back? MRS. SEGAL: No, never. MR. ZACHARY: Has any work been done at all? MRS. SEGAL: No, nothing was. And we wrote him a lot of times letters, and we tried him to call him, but he never, he never called me back. It was a problem. And he swore -- one time I met him unexpectedly because I was in the morning with my husband and he was in his office, so he swore to me that he was done the job, but he never did it. MR. ZACHARY: Okay. Do you remember about what date that you talked to him? MRS. SEGAL: Yes, it was in November. In November, yes. He gave me a lot of appointments to do that and I wrote him a letter that I would like to have some money back when the job is not done until 10th of December. And I called him a lot of times. Every day sometimes. MR. ZACHARY: Thank you. I don't have any other questions. MRS. SEGAL: He was lying every time. MR. ZACHARY: Does the Board have any questions? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Does the board have any questions of her? (N 0 response) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: First of all, I apologize to both of you. In my effort to try to be kind and not waste your time, I wasted your time. MRS. SEGAL: Yeah, this is okay. He was lying every time. Now I have time because so much money, so -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Sorry. MRS. SEGAL: I think that is a crime because he was lying. And Page 54 February 15,2006 I know that he had about -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Step forward just a little bit. MRS. SEGAL: I know that he, from another worker that he has about 260 estimates and he got about $500,000 now he's done nothing. It's crime I think. MR. ZACHARY: Thank you. Does the board have anything else? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Nothing further? MR. ZACHARY: Nothing further for this witness. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go ahead then. MR. ZACHARY: Mr. Bartoe, the Board will take notice, besides the -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Has Mr. Bartoe been sworn in once? MR. BARTOE: No, I have not been. MR. NEALE: He needs to be sworn (Sworn) MR. ZACHARY: Mr. Bartoe, we have several other estimates from Tropical Shield. Have you -- have you spoken to these other people that have contracted with this company to have their hurricane shutters installed? MR. BARTOE: I have spoken to some ofthem as late as yesterday, and the ones I haven't, Mr. Kennette has. I do want to bring out of the seven that we have in this packet, it totals up to -- total deposits of $24,477.50. And Mr. Kennette and I are like Mr. Ossorio. We can't canvass door to door. God only knows how many of those are out there that never came to us. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Has any ofthe work been done? MR. BARTOE: On these, none. And getting on the computer this morning, the last permits pulled by Tropical Shield were in September, approximately four or five, with absolutely no inspections, other than the day after they were pulled. Next day was a Notice of Commencement and after that nothing. Page 55 February 15,2006 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: This is a condo project? MR. BARTOE: No. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: These are all single family homes? MRBARTOE: Yes. MR. BLUM: September of '05 you're talking about? MR. BARTOE: September '05, yes. MR. BLUM: Nothing since September, no permits at all? MR. BARTOE: No, sir. Plus after that, I myself put him on hold. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: This looks like willful theft. MR. BLUM: No question. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: By section 489.126, if! am right-- MR. BLUM: Wow. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's already defined by Florida state statute that it is theft, because any deposits in excess of 10 percent over the contract amount, permit must be pulled within 60 days and work must be completed within a period of time -- I forget the period of time. So when he took a 50 percent deposit, he was committing theft unless you sign away that regulation. So we have numerous felony charges. MR. NEALE: I can read the statute. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Am I correct? MR. NEALE: You hit it right on by the way. Congratulations. Thank you for helping me find it. Pursuant to 489126 Subsection two, the contractor who receives as initial payment money totaling more than 10 percent of the contract price for repair, restoration, improvement or construction to residential real property must A, apply for permits necessary to do the work within 30 days after the payment is made, except where the work does not require a permit, and B, start the work within 90 days after the date all necessary permits for work are issued. A contractor who receives money for this shall not with intent to defraud the owner, fail or refuse to perform any work within Page 56 February 15,2006 90 days, and if the contractor does not do any of these things, it gives rise to an inference that the money in excess of the value of the work performed was taken with the intent to defraud. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Then it goes on in there to say he's guilty of theft, which all contractors should have this in their contracts. My company does. If I ever have to take a deposit that's more than 10 percent, then I write in there 489.126 that you are aware of that, and you allow this, which there is provision in there that that is allowable if it's explained to the homeowner, or whoever is giving the deposit, and they consent. MR. NEALE: Now, there is a requirement within the statute that a certified letter must be sent to the address of the contractor indicating the contractor has failed to perform any work for a 60 day period, that the failure to perform was not the result of the owner's termination or material breach by the owner, and the contractor must recommence construction within 30 days after the date of the mailing of the letter. So there is a notice provision required of the contractor, which mayor may not have been done in this case. We have no evidence either way. But if a person -- the fourth subsection of this statute is that any person who violates any provision of this section is guilty of theft and shall be prosecuted and punished under Florida statute section 812.014, which I would imagine is the statute for grand theft. I did not research that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So do you have communication with the state on this for future felony charges? MR. BARTOE: We have not up 'till now. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you. MS. KELLER: So, should the homeowners need to send this __ MR. NEALE: In order to fully comply with 489.126, they need to send a certified letter as outlined in the statute to the contractor. Then he has 30 days to do something in this instance. It seems likely that there would be little reaction by the contractor, but we'll maintain Page 57 February 15,2006 the rights and then they would be able to go to the state attorney with it and push the case. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Would you do me a favor and make sure county staff has that requirement? And you can pass it on to these people. Because then we can validate felony charges that the state can follow up on. MR. OSSORIO: No problem. What we'll do is get the finding of fact and ship it to you. Detective White, he's with Economic Crime Unit with Brock's office and we'll coordinate with them. MR. NEALE: Okay. And then if you get the notices, get the ordinance to send notices, then -- MR. OSSORIO: That's fine. MR. NEALE: It's prima facie evidence. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Contractors need to be very, very careful on deposits. If you've got to have a deposit -- I'm saying this because we're on television, but you don't -- you've got to be careful what you take. And it's better not to take any deposits. MRS. SEGAL: This is not possible because -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I know, it's not possible, but not every company requires a deposit. MRS. SEGAL: He had five -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I don't have you on the thing so I can't MRS. SEGAL: Sorry. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. No further evidence? MR. NEALE: Other than just take note of the packet and the deposits were taken, and that none have been returned. No work has been done. No further evidence. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Did you want Mr. Kennette to enter into this? MR. BARTOE: I don't believe he needs to -- I don't think he has anything more to add. If you want to look at E21 through to the end, Page 58 February 15, 2006 it's photographs taken by Mr. Ossorio and I when we were up to his last known address on January 25th, and it was completely vacated, and you can see that the mailbox was full of mail, including certified. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: The question I have though Mr. Bartoe is, in going through this packet in August and in October, this was -- he was acting like a responsible company. MR. BARTOE: I put that in there to show you acting like, yes. Acting. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, that takes some level-- MR. BARTOE: Plus buying time is the way I looked at it. MR. BLUM: Me too. MR. ZACHARY: Mr. Chairman, as an aside, I consulted the Department of State website yesterday or the day before. Tropical Shield Of Florida, Inc. was administratively dissolved on 9/16/05. So the company was no longer registered in the State of Florida at that point. It was a dissolved corporation. MR. BLUM: How do you dissolve a Chapter 7? MR. NEALE: Administratively. MR. ZACHARY: Administratively dissolved for annual report. So evidently he didn't file an annual report for 2005. MR. BLUM: This is premeditated all the way. MR. JOSLIN: Which-- MR. BARTOE: Dissolved in September? MR. ZACHARY: Yes. MR. BARTOE: And then we have these, Mr. Chairman, these letters of October 29th. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: This case is more for criminal court than what we can do here today. MR. BARTOE: Staff -- staff, if found in violation, is not looking for a fine. We're looking for revocation. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I don't think there was ever any question. Page 59 February 15,2006 MR. BARTOE: We're looking for restitution, if that can be awarded, with the Bankruptcy proceedings. You'll have to consult counsel. MR. NEALE: The board could -- it's my opinion, and Mr. Zachary can weigh in. The Board could, in my opinion, find for restitution, then the county would became a creditor on the bankruptcy estate and would have the ability then to file a claim against the bankrupt estate, is my opinion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Can we do -- and we haven't closed public hearing yet. But can we do restitution for future or unknown, or just what's in front of us? MR. NEALE: Pardon me? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We can only do restitution for what's in front of us, correct? MR. NEALE: Correct, you can only do for that which is proven in front of you,and you can also impose a fine. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Any more evidence to present? Any more questions? Do I hear a motion to close the public hearing? MR. JOSLIN: So moved, Joslin. MR. BLUM: Second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let's first go for the charge folks. MR. JOSLIN: Pretty obvious. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Two charges. MR. LEWIS: Three? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. Page 60 February 15,2006 MR. BLUM: I'd like to make a motion. MR. NEALE: That's actually Two Counts. MR. LEWIS: Two counts. MR. BLUM: I make the motion that the Two counts be approved as stated and we find the defendant guilty on all counts. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I hear a second? MR. JOSLIN: Second, Joslin. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So done. Quick, let me do the administration here and we'll move onto the penalty phase, Mr. Neale. Board of Collier County Commissioners is the petitioner versus Santos G. Guevara, Junior, case number 2006-03. License number 25007. This cause came before public hearing before the Contractor Licensing Board on February 15,2006 for consideration of many administrative complaint filed against Santos G. Guevara, service the complaint was made by certified mail which is acknowledged by the attorney representing Mr. Guevara and in accordance with Collier County ordinance 90-105 as amended. The Board having heard testimony under oath, received evidence, heard arguments perspective to all appropriate matters thereupon issues it's finding of fact conclusion of law and order of the Board that one; Santos G. Guevara, Junior is the holder of record of certificate of Competency number 2006-03. Two, that the Board of Collier County Commissioners of Collier County Florida is the complainant in this matter. Three, that the Board had jurisdiction of the person of this respondent and that Mr. Guevara was not present at the hearings, and, therefore, not Page 6] February ]5,2006 represented by counsel. Number four, all notices required by Collier County ordinance number 90-105 as amended have been properly issued. And five, the allegations of fact as set forth in the complaint to include 4.1.3, abandoning a construction project in which he is engaged or under contract as a contractor. Number two for -- I don't have to read the whole thing, do I, Mr. Neale? MR. NEALE: No. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: 4.1.8.1, the contractor fails to fulfill his contractural obligation to a customer, and three, 4.1.8.1B, the contractor has abandoned a customer's job, and the percentage of completion is less than the percentage of the total contract paid to the contractor at the time of abandonment. By a vote of six in favor and zero against, he was found guilty in all three complaints. Next is penalty phase. Mr. Neale, if you'll guide us. MR. BARTOE: Mr. Chairman, one correction. His license number is 25007. You quoted the case number. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you. MR. JOSLIN: Also there's two complaints -- Two Counts. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is it not -- doesn't really count as three. MR. NEALE: No, it's two counts. Because the 4.1.8.1, the first section states that they neglected to do it, and then the following circumstances. The circumstances under which they neglected to pay the creditors and so forth. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I can probably go through 489 and come up with a whole lot mor. MR. NEALE: Well, as noted before, the Board can only find on the violations that are alleged in the complaint. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Exactly. Tell us what we can do. MR. NEALE: Well, this respondent has been found in violation of the ordinance and the Board must decide the sanctions to be imposed. The sanctions which may be imposed include revocation of Page 62 February 15, 2006 the certificate of competency, suspension of the certificate of competency, denial of issuance or renewal of that certificate, probation of a reasonable length, not to exceed two years. Restitution. A fine not to exceed $5,000, a public reprimand, a re-examination requirement, denial of the issuance of permits or requiring issuance of permits with conditions, and reasonable legal and investigative costs. The Board in determining what sanctions to impose, shall consider the gravity of the violation, the impact of the violation, actions taken by the violator to correct the violation, previous violations committed by the violator and any other evidence presented at the hearing by the parties which is relevant as to the sanction that is appropriate for the case given the nature of the violation. The Board shall also issue a recommended penalty to the State Construction Industry Licensing Board. This penalty may include a recommendation of no action, a recommendation of suspension, revocation or restriction of the registration, or a fine to be levied by the State Construction Industry Licensing Board. MR. BARTOE: Mr. Neale, I might add his license is not registered with the state either. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Hurricane shutters? MR. BARTOE: He does not have a hurricane shutter license. This was under an aluminum speciality license and he has failed the hurricane test. MR. BLUM: It gets better and better. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I saw he was not pulling any permits for any of this work either? MR. BARTOE: Not after it came to our attention. MR. NEALE: I would note to the Board that that has been presented as evidence, is in evidence that may be considered by the Board. MR. BLUM: I'm ready to make a motion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go. Page 63 February 15,2006 MR. BLUM: I recommend that we revoke the license for Tropical Shield of Florida, Inc. I recommend a maximum $5,000. I recommend that we do send all the company paperwork to the state in the off chance that this gentleman does decide to go for state license. I'd like to make a side here. This letter that we got says in Chapter 13 and Chapter 7 bankruptcy respectively. Now Tropical Shield is gone. It's a Chapter 7. Creditors get what they get. But Mr. Guevara is only in an Chapter 13, which he can come out of. Which will enable him to put his license on another business. So as part of my motion, I want -- I would like to see his name flagged should he ever decide under Mr. Santos Guevara, Junior to apply for any license in Collier County, it comes before this Board. That's what I'd like to add to my motion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Keep going. You haven't addressed restitution or cost. MR. BLUM: Restitution -- full amount as described by Mr. Zachary. I don't remember the amount. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: $24,400 and change. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: $477.50. MR. BLUM: Exactly. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Cost? MR. BLUM: Estimated cost in the amount of -- MR. BARTOE: Staff would recommend $500. MR. BLUM: $500 in cost. MR. JOSLIN: Is that it? MR. JOSLIN: Second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. I've got -- tell me if! am-- we've got full revocation of the license, revoked, gone. Restitution $24,477.50. And Collier County would be the collector of that for the individuals. A fine of $5,000. Administrative cost of the investigation and the hearing. $500. You guys work cheap. Recommendation to the state to send the entire packet to the state with the recommendation Page 64 February 15,2006 that they review -- help me if I've got this right -- that they review for possibility of a state fine. MR. BLUM: Well, he doesn't have a state license, but my personal recommendation would be that they hold this in abeyance until such time as this gentleman may decide to go for state license since he lost his Collier license. He could go up to the state and look for a license and nobody would know anything about it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We send it to state with the purpose of making them aware of the actions that he has committed down here? MR. BLUM: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And was that all? MR. BLUM: No. And that any future license that he may try to pull in his name be brought to our attention immediately. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: This Licensing Board. Everybody clear? Discussion. Oh, I need a second first. MR. JOSLIN: I did one. You have a second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Got a second. I need discussion? Are we witch hunting, Mr. Myers? MR. LEWIS: Who's Mr. Myers? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I mean, Bill. MR. LEWIS: No. In light of the case that was just before us, as you can see, I think the gravity and the impact of this situation is just ridiculous. And I think the motion is well within reach. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: This borders on premeditated. MR. LEWIS: Exactly. MR. BLUM: Fraud. MS. KELLER: Fraud. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I mean -- MR. LEWIS: It's terrible. I mean, it hurts the consumers, and it's just a shame. I apologize to all the consumers involved. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm sorry. I don't know where I got Myers. Page 65 February 15, 2006 MR. BLUM: I wish there was more we could do. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What scares me is how many -- this company -- you'd be surprised how many people watch this on TV. Must be a bad TV night, but this is Tropical -- when we went prime time -- do you remember that? We got bumped for the impact or something and we were on at 8:00, my gosh, I had more people-- MR. BLUM: My phone rang off the hook. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. I was at Kmart the next day and, I saw you on TV. I just want to repeat the name of this company. Tropical Shields. MR. BLUM: Tropical Shields. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Tropical Shields of Florida, Inc. I've got a feeling there's a ton of people out there that have given deposits and don't even know about this yet. Or hoping that they some day show up and they're not going to show up. The business is dissolved and they filed bankruptcy. So I hope that word can get out to the public. MR. BLUM: My big fear is based on this letter that this guy intends -- why would he do a Chapter 13 in his own name? He's just out there. He did it once he's going to do it again in another name. And we've got to flag it. We've got to know when this guy comes out here in Collier County that we're looking for him. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I would like to -- if there's some way I could get Lisa -- I don't know her last name, who is the public information -- MR. BARTOE: Kohler. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I would like for Lisa Kohler, if she would, to make some kind of release about this case to the news media. MR. BARTOE: We will ask her to do that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So that -- I know what's happening out there is everyone one is backlogged past a year. I've got a ton of Page 66 February 15, 2006 people out there that have given deposits that are still thinking this company is going to show up. So at least get the word out there that they've got a problem. MR. BARTOE: Because in that industry, I do understand, there's a big aluminum shortage also. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. I've got a motion and a second. Any more discussion? All those -- call for the vote, all those in favor? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All right. Opposed? (No response) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's unanimous. Let me read it into the book. I hate it when I lose my place. I've got too many papers up here, Mr. Neale. MR. NEALE: It's one ofthose days. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Here we go. Order of the Board: Based upon the foregoing Findings of Fact and conclusion oflaw and pursuant to the authority granted in Chapter 489 Florida statutes and Collier County ordinance number 90-105 as amended, and by a vote of six in favor and zero opposed, it is hereby ordered that the following disciplinary sanctions and related order are hereby imposed on the holder of contractors certificate of competency number 2 -- MR. JOSLIN: 25007. MR. NEALE: 25007. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: 25007. Number one, this license shall be revoked. Number two, restitution shall be ordered in the amount of $24,477.50. Number three, that a maximum fine of$5,000 be Page 67 February 15,2006 imposed. Number four, that administrative cost for investigation and hearing of $500 be assessed. Number five, that this file be sent on to the State of Florida for their information purposes should any action in the future need to be taken or license application be received by this individual. And number six, that any future licenses or license applications by this individual come before this licensing Board prior to any approval or disapproval. Did I get it all? Case is closed. I got a feeling we got more of these coming. MR. LEWIS: Mr. Chairman, is there some way that staff can notify adjacent counties too, because obviously he must have been licensed in Lee county because his business address is in Lee County? You know, Hendry, DeSoto, Charlotte, all these counties that are looking for these things, we can notify them of our actions here today. MR. BARTOE: Lee County has cases. MR. JOSLIN: He could still go to Lee County ifhis license -- and still be doing work. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You've already talked to Lee County, haven't you? MR. BARTOE: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We appreciate your time. We're very sorry that you probably have lost money. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Ifthere's any way we can help you get it back though, we will. MRS. SEGAL: Yeah, we know that, yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Thank you again very much. MRS. SEGAL: Things happen. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Ladies and gentlemen, I've got a feeling that the two cases we saw today is the tip of the iceberg. MR. BARTOE: We brought those people in so that we had more than just hearsay just in case somebody wanted to argue the fact that hearsay is all we had. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: How are you doing on complaints Page 68 February 15,2006 from Hurricane Wilma? Both of these were pretty much part of it. MR. BARTOE: It doesn't appear to be any bigger work load right now, does it? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's amazing. That's also a lot of preventative patrolling and watching of work that's going on, which you guys have done a wonderful job of. MR. BARTOE: It was a little bit hectic, but it was only for two, three weeks and it calmed down. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And your signs have been phenomenal. There's five of them broken right now on 951 and off of 75. I guess some people got tired oflooking at them. They did the trick, so staff has done a wonderful job. You should be commended. Any other action, comments? March 15th, everybody here? MR. BARTOE: I just want to comment June 21st the meeting date, there will be no meeting. We lost this room for budget workshops. And should it be necessary to have a meeting, we'll find a place up on Horseshoe Drive and notify everybody. As of right now we're planning on no June meeting. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: May 17th, I won't be here. MR. BARTOE: Mr. Joslin? MR. JOSLIN: Yes. MR. BARTOE: You heard him, correct? MR. JOSLIN: Yes, I did. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You will be here? MR. JOSLIN: I will have to be. Where are you going to be? Back in Germany? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No, Italy. Are we meeting in July? I imagine we are? MR. BLUM: Probably. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No June meeting. July is a go. MR. BARTOE: Do we know off the top of our head who expires June 30th? Page 69 February 15,2006 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes, I do. I have the list. MR. ZACHARY: I wouldn't put it that way, Mr. Bartoe. MR. JOSLIN: And I've raised my hand. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Richard Joslin, Sydney Blum. MR. BLUM: Blum. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, you're going to go back on, right? MR. BLUM: If you want me. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We do. And Mr. Lewis is going to reup, isn't he? MR. LEWIS: Am I up in June? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yup. Yeah. MS. KELLER: Time flies. MR. LEWIS: Absolutely. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What I need for all three of you to do is just write a short letter or something to Tom -- or really Sue Filson. MR. BARTOE: To Sue Filson advising that you would be interested in another term serving on the Board. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's just a one liner. She still has to advertise, but she also follows recommendations with what the county wants also. MR. JOSLIN: By the way, Mr. Lewis, after ten years we get a raise for sure. MR. LEWIS: For sure. MR. JOSLIN: Just letting you know. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any other business? Do I hear a motion, if not, to adjourn. MR. LEWIS: Move to adjourn, please. MR. JOSLIN: Second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So moved. That's everybody. ***** Page 70 February 15, 2006 There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 11:12 a.m. CONTRACTOR'S LICENSING BOARD LES DICKSON, Chairman. TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT REPORTING SERVICES, INC., BY DANIELLE AHREN Page 7]