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CLB Minutes 10/31/2005 E October 31, 2005 TRANSCRIPT OF THE EMERGENCY MEETING OF THE CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD Naples, Florida, October 31, 2005 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Contractors' Licensing Board, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9 a.m., in an EMERGENCY SESSION at the Collier County Development Services Building, Conference Room C, 2800 North Horseshoe Drive, Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: LES DICKSON RICHARD JOSLIN LEE HORN SYD BLUM MIKE BOYD BILL LEWIS ANN KELLER ALSO PRESENT: PATRICK NEALE, Attorney for the Board THOMAS BARTOE, License Compliance Officer PAUL BALZANO, Licensing Supervisor BILL HAMMOND, Director of Building Review & Permitting Page 1 AGENDA COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD EMERGENCY MEETING DATE: October 31, 2005 TIME: 9:00 A.M. COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BUILDING 2800 N. HORSESHOE DR. NAPLES, FL 34104 ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THAT TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED. I. ROLL CALL II. ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS: III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA: IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: DATE: NONE V. DISCUSSION: VI. NEW BUSINESS: Declare contractor shortages of designated categories due to the effects of hurricane Wilma. VII. OLD BUSINESS: VIII PUBLIC HEARINGS: IX. REPORTS: X. NEXT MEETING DATE: Wednesday, December 21,2005 October 31,2005 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'd like to call the order and emergency meeting of the Collier County Licensing Board to discuss emergency licenses for hurricane repairs as a result of hurricane damage. Do I need to do roll call or do you have everybody? THE COURT REPORTER: I have everyone but you might want to do it for the record. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'll just start here and we'll go around the table. Les Dickson, chairman. MR. JOSLIN: Richard Joslin, vice chairman. MR. HORN: Lee Horn. MR. BLUM: Syd Blum. MR. BOYD: Mike Boyd. MR. BAR TOE: Tom Bartoe, Collier County Licensing Investigator. MR. NEALE: Patrick Neale, attorney to the board. MR. BALZANO: Paul Balzano, Collier County Supervisor for contractor licensing. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And this gentleman here. MR. HAMMAND: I'm Bill Hammond. I'm the Director of the Building Review and Permitting Department for Collier County. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Before we get going we have statutes for this in our codes that I'd like to get Mr. Neale to read. MR. NEALE: Yeah. This meeting's called and the board is convening pursuant to Section 22-190 of the Collier County Ordinances. And it states in part that in the event of a declaration of a state of emergency in Collier County by the Board of County Commissioners or in the city by the city council in which substantial damage has occurred to buildings and structures so as to call all shortage of available persons in the contracting trades for which there are Collier County or city certificates of competency, the Collier Page 2 October 31, 2005 County Contractors' Licensing Board is hereby authorized to (1) declare an emergency contracting trade shortage of designated categories of contractors in or subcontractors listed in this article. The declaration shall be for a period of time not to exceed six months. And (2) authorize the contractor or licensing supervisor to prepare and regulate the selection of contractors and/or subcontractors from other jurisdictions whose licensing requirements are substantially comparable to those licensed in the county. The contractor selected must be licensed in the jurisdiction whose testing and licensing requirements have been predetermined by the Contractors' Licensing Board to be substantially comparable to the county requirements. It's my interpretation of this that this board, No.1, and today we'll have to determine jurisdictions whose requirements are substantially comparable. And, No.2, determine which -- which testing requirements are determined to be substantially comparable. So two things, you have to find the jurisdictions whose requirements are substantially comparable and predetermine that. So this board should find today based on recommendation of staff or whatever those jurisdictions who have substantially comparable requirements for the relevant trades. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. And Paul Balzano is chief inspector for the licensing -- contractor licensing. Tell us what the county's wanting to do. MR. BALZANO: What we started last week because there was a need for it is we've been licensing out of jurisdiction and some from out-of-state tree services. And they've shown Collier County is unique. We're probably one of the only counties that actually has a license and a test for tree trimming. Most of the others are strictly an occupational license to be in business. So we've had them show a current occupational license or a -- if their county did require testing, a competency card, current insurance, liability insurance. We've done, what, 50 already, Tom? Page 3 October 31, 2005 MR. BARTOE: We have 50 temporary licenses in here. Almost all of them tree trimming. MR. BALZANO: Tree trimming and removal. And some of them have come down from Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana. And they're regular tree services. I mean, they've got the regular equipment and we have had a number of haulers come in which we sent to the county that's going to regulate the removal of the debris so then we don't license them. So then all we've licensed actually is tree trimming and tree removal contractors. And we took a copy of their driver's license. We have a copy of their occupational license. We have a certificate of insurance. So we can -- the damage -- damage they're going to do, if any, I mean, most of what they're doing is cutting up what's on the ground. And the county's going to do the removal and haul away the debris so... MR. NEALE: Just for the board's information, the requirements under our tree removal and trimming contractors' licensing requires 12 months of experience with a passing grade on a two-hour business and law test. And that means those who are qualified to trim and remove trees and stems. So there's no specific test for tree removal and trimming. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What other licenses do you want to look at? MR. BALZANO: I feel that it would be a call for aluminum from what I've seen. And we had talked of aluminum. The ones we're going to throw out, we sat down with Mr. Schmitt and Mr. Hammond was roofing, aluminum, cost of tree service, general contractors, building contractors and residential contractors if they're needed. And right now I don't know if -- how much of a need there is for a glass and glazing, how many, you know, high risers, windows and signs. I don't know how many signs are down or if we have enough people in the county to handle the signs. Page 4 October 31,2005 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. So we're not looking at any unlicensed contractors from out of state like Governor Bush did after the four hurricanes last year? MR. NEALE: No. Under our ordinance that's not permitted. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Hallelujah. MR. BARTOE: Other than our tree license we require tests on some other stuff. And, you know, as Paul said we felt we had looking at it from that aspect an emergency on our hands and we had to get some of these people if they were licensed somewhere else licensed here to get some of this removal in progress. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But your key was they were licensed somewhere else within the state? MR. BALZANO: No. Some of them were out of the state. MS. KELLER: Other states. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. But then we're talking tree removal like Asplundh and people like that? MR. NEALE: It was M&M, All-Pro, some big companies. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Big companies that travel with FP&L. THE COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry. I need to plug my writer In. (Brief recess was taken.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Let's address these one by one. Tree services, are we pretty much in agreement that what you're doing right now we don't have a problem with and we approve? I mean, cutting down a tree and hauling it away as long as they're in business somewhere else, I don't see a problem. You're checking insurance. Okay. Do we want to make a motion, Mr. Neale, to approve? MR. NEALE: I think we need a motion that basically says that the county -- the county staff has the discretion to determine comparable licensure and determine which jurisdictions have such comparable licensure -- Page 5 October 31, 2005 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: For tree -- MR. NEALE: -- for tree trimming and removal. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Someone want to take that motion? MR. HORN: Do we need a time frame on that motion? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Six months. MR. JOSLIN: I'll make the motion. That we allow this tree service and removal companies to work here for a period of six months, provided they have proper insurance, proper workmen's comp for -- from all out-of-state applicants. They should come before staff and reviewed by staff. If staff feels they're qualified, then it's okay for them to work. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I hear a second? MR. BOYD: Second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Tree services approved. Now, signs. I want to hear from our sign contractor member. How do you feel about the sign situation? MR. BOYD: Well, I've already got most of my customers cleaned up. Driving around, I mean, I don't think there's any real serious damage. If you want to allow state registered to come in temporarily that's fine with me. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is there a state certified? Page 6 October 31, 2005 MR. BOYD: There's a state certified and state registered. State certified can work anywhere. State approved has to be approved by the municipality. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you think there's a need for it? MR. BOYD: If you're state-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I mean, state certified you can't stop-- they can come automatically? MR. BALZANO: We haven't had any-- MR. BOYD: I think with -- yeah, with the number of people in Fort Myers and here, I don't think we really need it, but -- MS. KELLER: Well, if you're not overloaded with calls. I mean, I can't imagine. MR. BOYD: Well, I've got plenty of calls. MR. BARTOE: As Paul said, we at the county have not had any requests from any sign contractors to get licensed here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Then if they're state certified, if they want to come in the doors are open. You can't -- MR. BOYD: What's the process if they are still state registered -- what's the process of state registered, they've just got to -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Same thing. MR. BARTO E: If their testing is similar to ours -- MR. BOYD: Okay. MR. BAR TOE: -- it would be a complete application. MR. NEALE: Where this allows them to avoid the complete application. MR. JOSLIN: I think it would be something that has a basis. If there's a demand for it, I think staff could probably handle who they allow to work and who not to rather than to put it into a real motion if that's the case unless somebody knows more about signs than what he's saying. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. So we'll just leave signs alone. Is that in agreement? Page 7 October 31, 2005 (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We don't need a motion for that. Roofing. I've been all through the county. I haven't seen any structural damage which -- I worked Ivan after -- or I worked Pensacola after Ivan. I had offices in Orlando and Coco after Charlie and Jean and Francis. I had an office in Miami after Andrew. I've always made the statement that the finest building in the state is in Collier County. And that's not because I live here but it really is. Collier County held up beautifully except for mobile homes and trailers and a couple of eface walls and a couple of high rises that weren't done correctly, there is no structural damage in Collier County. And what I'm seeing in roofing, 98 percent of it is cosmetic. It's a few tiles off, a few shingles off. It's all cosmetic. There were some that were stripped, but the ones that are stripped, I've already seen dried in by contractors. And we've had a tremendous influx of state-certified roofing contractors. From what I'm seeing in signs, if the state-certified numbers are good on their signs, which I assume they are. Could we use some help? If they're licensed and they meet our testing and our testing is harder than other counties, so if it's a passing grade of75 in Collier and they got a lower test grade and were approved somewhere else, do we allow them in? But I'll be honest with you on -- on roofing, I don't think there's that big a need either. There are major companies outside of state -- Texas, Michigan, Illinois -- that have state-certified roofing licenses and they're in Florida and they're already here. I'm talking large companies that have thousands of employees. Unless someone can tell me that someone's wide open and they're not getting covered up -- MR. HAMMOND: I would just like to say from the -- from doing the same thing, looking at virtually the entire county from a worm's-eye view and bird's-eye view that -- that there's a significant amount of roof damage out there. You're right. Most of it is -- most Page 8 October 31,2005 of it is ridge tiles. A lot of built-up roofs on the older buildings that got stripped back. Got a lot of shingles that are gone, a lot of shingle roofing. And those -- and those buildings that that has happened to are in the hundreds, probably close to thousands. All I can say is that anything we can do that -- that allows those roofs to be closed up more quickly, even though we are going into the driest month, it only takes one rainy day to amplify or exacerbate those open roofs. So whatever the board can do to allow us to expand the -- the pool of licensed roofers to come in here, I think that's -- that's something I would like to see. We'll -- we'll follow the dictates of the ordinance in that regard, but my impression from everything I've seen around the county, like I say, from the ground and from the air is that there's a lot of roofs out there that need to be worked on. And one day of rain can add a lot of problems to the compromising of those roofs and -- and added insurance payouts and out-of-pocket payouts to everybody in the county . So I would ask that the board be, you know, thoughtful of that with whatever we can do to stay within the ordinance and expand that pool of licensed contractors that can come in. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I don't have a problem with it and I'm not jealous of it. I don't think they'll stay here long because I don't think there's that much work here for them. And I can't tell you how many jobs I got to within two days and by the time I got there in two days they already have another contractor doing the work. MR. BLUM: We don't want to leave ourselves open. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: The one person that's flooded-- MR. BLUM: They're going to use that as an excuse whether true or not. We can't -- MS. KELLER: The other thing is -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: One at a time now. She's recording, so, yeah, I agree. Page 9 October 31, 2005 MR. BLUM: One rainstorm, one guy says, Well, if you'd let outside contractors in, it wouldn't have happened. True or not true. You can't let it be said. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I don't have a problem with this ordinance. It's written beautifully. MR. BLUM: Yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Where we got in trouble in the state last year, and I love him to death, but it's when Jeb Bush let unlicensed contractors from out of state in here. We already have 6,000 complaints statewide with improperly installed materials that have to be torn off and redone. And the contractors have left the state and they're gone. Good luck. That's a terrific liability for the state. So if they're licensed, I don't have a problem with letting them in. MR. JOSLIN: Are these repairs that you're talking about like a major repair where you require a permit to redo or -- MR. HAMMOND: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. The only thing that doesn't require a permit is an immediate action to stop further damage from occurring which is basically covering up with a tarp or putting up plywood over a door or a window. But as soon as you go back into a building material, we require a permit for that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Are we using -- are we using the threshold of$l,OOO? MR. HAMMOND: That's -- no, we're not, not in this regard. Basically we're using pretty much what the ordinance says under the -- under the bill-back policy. That you can -- you can affect something to stop further damage. You can cover a roof with a tarp. You can put plywood or something similar over a door or window. You can stabilize an unsafe structure to stop it, you know, from falling down or whatever. But if you go beyond that you go into a permit area. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is there any way to expedite those? MR. HAMMOND: The permits? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: There are so many of them. Could we Page 10 October 31, 2005 do an on-line permit or something like that? MR. HAMMOND: We're doing them over-the-counter as fast as they walk in. We're even giving permit books to inspectors and code enforcement out in the field to go ahead and issue permits in the field. And right now we're working off a flat fee for that process. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Can I buy a book of them? MR. HAMMOND: Certainly you may. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you. That is a big problem. MR. HAMMOND: Understood. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It really slows us down. I have no problem approving comparable licensed -- MR. BALZANO: In the state. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- in the state, not out of state. The problem I have with out of state versus tree service is they're not familiar with Florida codes. I don't want to jeopardize our codes. MR. BALZANO: These two gentlemen were in our office earlier and I told them we were having a public hearing. And if you want to, he'd like to speak. They're from out of state, but -- MR. HARDY: I've lived down here. I've been down here for two years, but I'm a contractor up north in New Hampshire. And all I'm trying to do is help -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Would you state your name? MR. HARDY: Kim Hardy. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Go ahead. MR. HARDY: My folks live over in Sunrise III. They can't get any roofers over there and all it is is patching. It's just asphalt, patching here, patching there. The caps are gone on them. And that's just basically I want to go over and help them out. There's going to be a lot of damage over there because there is -- all the caps are gone on it. And we're supposed to be getting rain tomorrow. They're saying a 60 percent chance tomorrow, 30 percent the next day. And all those condos are going to be destroyed inside. Page 11 October 31, 2005 MR. NEALE: The ordinance specifically requires that they be licensed contractors deemed to be equivalent to a Collier County license. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So they could be out of state by the ordinance? MR. NEALE: Whatever jurisdiction is deemed to be substantially -- have substantially comparable requirements. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So they must have testing. MR. NEALE: Whatever is substantially comparable based on either the board or delegated to the staff, a staff decision. MR. JOSLIN: What if this is a licensed -- contractors that are already licensed doing work as a business in their particular state they're living in now? Does that still apply as a company I'm talking about? MR. NEALE: Yeah. The way -- the way the ordinance is written they have to be licensed where they came from and their testing and licensing requirements there have to be determined by this board to be substantially comparable to Collier County requirements. MR. BLUM: Let this be a staff issue. Staff is well aware of this. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We have to deal with out of state like this gentleman here. Are you licensed? MR. HARDY: We register with the state. We have a Federal ID number, but they don't have a test like what you have down here. That's just the way the state is. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I've got a real problem with that. MR. BARTOE: It's not similar. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm turning people loose to do work. MR. JOSLIN: We don't even know what you do or how you do it. MR. HARDY: I understand where you guys are coming from. MR. LEWIS: William Lewis, Contractor Licensing Board. One of the problems that I have with the out-of-state licensees whether Page 12 October 31, 2005 they're licensed or they're not is just like you said. They're going to come in here, wham, bam and it's out the door. And like you said, we've got over 6,000 registered complaints right now. It doesn't mean __ total re-dos, the insurance companies aren't going to pay for it. The people aren't going to pay for it. Our position is to protect the public here. And I think like -- like this gentleman from out of state said, if he wants to help them out, go tarp it. Tarp it. Protect it. That's what the ordinance says. That's what we need to do. I don't see a problem with what the ordinance says. As far as in-state licensed contractors coming in on a temporary permit, I think we need to definitely consider that because it is -- it is a real problem with roofing. You know what the situation is. I know what it is. I've got ten customers out there with no roofs so, you know, I can't find them. I can't get a contractor to answer my phone calls and these are guys I've worked with for 30 years. So in reference to that I definitely think that we need in-state licensees, although I'm not real comfortable with that because they're going to be the ones that take advantage of people too. But we're just going to have to depend on our faith here in our staff and our contractor licensing enforcement officers to make sure these things get done right. But as far as out-of-state guys, if they want to come in, I don't see any problem with them doing a temporary deal. They don't have to be licensed to temporary it, I don't think. There's -- the ordinance says whatever you got to do to protect your property, do it. So, I mean, that's pretty simple. I can live with blue tarp. MR. JOSLIN: Is there any type of a -- I don't know how to say this, is there any type of temporary type license that can be given to a contractor, say this gentleman here, say, and he's a general contractor here in another state, allow him to do temporary repairs, not major -- major roof repairs? Page 13 October 31, 2005 MR. HAMMOND: If I may speak again, I think -- I think that there's a lot of good and sound judgment written into the LDC in that it requires us to meet the comparable test. If we can't meet the comparable test, it doesn't matter where they're from. Unfortunately, for this gentleman just by the fact that they don't test would -- would preclude us from, you know, allowing him to do that licensure. So I think -- I think that as close as we can stay to the spirit and intent of the LDC is where I would -- where I would like -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I agree 100 percent because -- I'll get to you -- this gentleman doesn't have liability or workers' compo And we're opening up the public to lawsuits if they get hurt on the job. MR. BLUM: There's another inherent issue here. We as a board and the county have now been told of a particular problem that many, many people in our county, we've been apprised of it, okay, if we don't see to it that those people are taken care of before damage occurs, we are negligent. Now, I understand and I agree with everything that's said here, but now we have an obligation to see to it and see that these people are taken care of. We've been told straight up what's going on and we've got to see to it. MR. HAMMOND: And I understand that as well, but I would like to say I am of the opinion and certainly Mr. Neale can opine on as well, that we are not granted any authority to lessen any requirement under this ordinance that's granted to the board. We're just -- we're just -- you're just granted the authority to work within the definitions. MR. BLUM: I'm not saying we should do it and overstep the code. MR. HAMMOND: Understood. MR. BLUM: That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is we have the responsibility now to find someone to deal with those people that have a problem. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let me throw --let me throw in an Page 14 October 31, 2005 avenue at you. Bill Lewis, general contractor. General contractors and residential contractors by state statute are allowed to do asphalt, shingles and wood shingles on buildings they are building under their license. They don't have to have a licensed roofing contractor. All he has to do is hire those people under his payroll -- MR. BLUM: Mr. Neale -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: --let me finish -- in a roofing category. What I would feel a whole lot more comfortable with is letting -- is an emergency clause to allow general contractors to do repairs. Then -- then I've got a licensed contractor who's here locally. MR. LEWIS: I agree with what you're saying except for -- you know as well as I do -- there's no qualified help out there that a GC in this town is going to hire. I wouldn't hire any because I don't want the responsibility. Number one, I don't want the payroll responsibility or the workers' comp responsibility. And you don't have -- you don't have -- there's no people out there. You know that, Les. MR. JOSLIN: Somebody off the street. MR. LEWIS: That's it. I'm going to hire this guy from out of town and put him up there on a roof. I'm going to have to stand there and watch him to make sure it gets done right. GCs aren't going to do that. So -- and what you're saying, yeah, I think it's a wonderful idea. There might be a few guys out there that might to do it, but we're opening up a whole other bailiwick of problems that can happen. And I don't know, again, whether we have the power to do that. We may make a suggestion to the county board of commissioners that they do an emergency document like that, but I don't think the board has the ability to do that. MR. BALZANO: Governor Bush already did it. General contractors and building contractors and residential can do repairs on anybody, not just -- MR. LEWIS: When did he do that? Page 15 October 31,2005 MR. BALZANO: He told the DPR this morning. There was two of them down here. I was talking to these gentlemen and she interrupted. MR. LEWIS: I don't know whether the state overrules the county or not. MR. BALZANO: It's the same thing as -- that's allowed on either license but you can do it on any piece of property. Where before it was just on new construction or warranty work. MR. LEWIS : We basically become a roofing contractor, GCs. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And in that case someone like that you could hire and the comp deal is not as bad because now roofing is lower than your carpentry rate. MR. LEWIS: Really? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. We're, like, 34. MR. LEWIS: No kidding. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's because all the GCs put roofers in the carpentry rate and that's where all the injuries were and so the carpentry went up. MR. LEWIS: Mine's 42 percent. Can't win for losing. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I -- I suggest we stay with the county ordinance and the fact that the general and residential contractors can now do it. That's got to be sufficient. MR. HAMMOND: That expands the pool which, again, I think anything that expands the pool and follows the intent of the LDC, that's what we're asking for. MR. JOSLIN: What type of permitting are you looking at right now that are coming in asking for roof repairs and contractors that are coming in that are wanting to do those repairs right now? MR. HAMMOND: Well, it's been -- it's been significant. I think -- I think you'll see the incidents increase a little bit as more mobilization, you know, goes on. I mean -- through, I mean through everything below South Florida. It's the same thing going on on the Page 16 October 31, 2005 east coast as well now too. So if -- you know -- you know, if -- you know, if the demand -- if the demand slackens off, then, you know, all the better. MR. JOSLIN: So it doesn't seem to be anything really earthshaking that there's that many people that are coming in that are unlicensed or needing permits for roofs that they're doing or repairs that they're doing right now anyway? MR. HAMMOND: Well, there is -- there is a business. We just want -- you know, we want -- we want to ensure, as you do, that they come in -- they come in because they can come in. And they don't do it because they know if they do, we'll tell them no, you know, so... CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Paul. MR. BALZANO: I've had four or five general contractors call that they have built homes but they have, like in Quail West, he had another contract to do the tile roofs on the house. Well, now those people are calling him because they can't get a roofer and asking me if they can do repairs on the tile which under their license says they can't. And most of it is bridge caps blown off and stuff like that. And they were asking me and I said, It's up to the board. They just want to make a repair on them. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Bridge caps are not going to cause leaks. MR. LEWIS: Not unless there's damage underneath of it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I haven't seen any yet. MR. LEWIS: That and you get one of my guys up on the roof, you're going to cause leaks just for having him walk on it. Seriously, it's -- you know, they're not professionals in that field and if you're not trained to do that, it's not -- it's not an easy profession. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I really don't want a lot of people up there. I've already got two customers in the hospital because they've tried to repair their own roofs. MR. LEWIS: Yeah. And, again, to keep in mind with -- with Page 1 7 October 31, 2005 our ordinances in place that we have. I think we have a great structure in all our ordinances. I think we need to follow those. Also I need -- I need to know that the county commission has accepted and approved whatever Governor Bush has said. I mean, that's their position to do that, not ours I don't think. So I think, you know, if that's what Governor Bush has done, I haven't heard that yet this morning on the news, but if that's what he's done and you did it, do it before and it was all accepted and that was fine, then I think it's up to the county commission to accept that or deny it and then we can follow suit with it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Right here. Yes. MR. BLUM: Can something -- I mean, we've got a particular need here, again, that we're aware of. These guys are going to walk out of here and they can't fix their friends and family members in a community that there are many problems. MR. LEWIS: They can protect it, though. MR. BLUM: Okay. But the people there are calling these fellows down for a need and we're saying no. If they decide it's not in their purview to put on blue tarps and nobody says they have to, okay, what happens to all those people that are going to have water damage? MR. LEWIS: That would be their decision. MR. BLUM: Well, no, because it's liable to come back to us. I think somebody needs to call there, management, maintenance company, somebody and make them aware that that can be done that way, that the outside guys can't do it. I just want to protect us. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: State your name. MR. MORENO: My name's Keith Moreno. What if we had out-of-state license or -- I'm from Chicago. I've got roofers down there that are licensed that are required to take a state license exam. Can they come down and do repairs for a month, two months just to take care of that particular problem with people calling in and saying, Things aren't done the way they should be just for a short period of Page 18 October 31, 2005 time? My neighborhood has roofs -- shingled roofs all over, not tile roofs, shingles, simple repairs. But once it rains, the water's going to go inside and now you've got interior damage, mold damage. You've got all kinds of issues. You know, I don't know what the right thing to do is because you guys deal with this more than I do. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But you fall into a category if we include out-of-state comparable license and insurance. As far as this situation back here, we have a lot more liability if one of them gets killed on that roof. MR. BLUM: I agree. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Then the state sues the whole condo association and we approved it. MR. BLUM: I'm not arguing any of the stuff. I totally agree. MS. KELLER: Is the insurance coverage by state or would the insurance cover you if you were working in Florida? Do you know? MR. MORENO: Are you speaking to me? MS. KELLER: Yeah. MR. MORENO: Out-of-state roofers -- roofers in Illinois, they have to take an exam. They have to have insurance. They've got to be licensed in the county. They've got to be preapproved in those counties or municipalities. Okay. So, for instance, if this was in Illinois state, you'd go in there and you'd show them your Illinois license and then they look it up and they say, Okay, this is fine. I don't know how all the other states -- I'm sure they've all got it. General contractors in Illinois don't have a written exam. They don't have a written exam. They're just -- you're going -- I'm a general contractor. Here's your permit. Roofers are a different story. Right now roofing is the only thing I see as an emergency. MR. BLUM: What she's asking is, does your workrnens' comp cover you down here is the question. MR. MORENO: Yes. Page 19 October 31,2005 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No, it doesn't. Not unless he has-- not unless he has a Florida rider, it will not cover him in Florida. MR. NEALE: I'd just emphasize one thing that's in the ordinance is that this board can authorize the contractor licensing supervisor to prepare and regulate the selection of the contractors and/or subcontractors from other jurisdictions whose licensing requirements are substantially comparable. It would be my interpretation that the regulation would mean this contractor licensing staff could require under that regulation that they carry -- that anyone permitted to work here has to carry appropriate insurance. MR. HAMMOND: Really, if I may, all the board need to do is authorize the contractor licensing department to regulate out-of-jurisdiction contractors under -- under the guidance of the LDC. That's really all the board need do in this matter. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I agree. MR. NEALE: And it does need to designate the categories. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm trying to do them individually. Let's just follow the emergency code. Do you all agree? MR. JOSLIN: Yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Which includes the insurance and comparable licensing. Motion anybody? Bob. Paul, I'm sorry. MR. BALZANO: A lot of the out of state do take -- if they're in a state that requires testing, it's been done by Block or it's been done by Experior or Prometric which we use. They do the same ones. There are people from Tennessee, Kentucky that have taken a Block test. And we've gotten ahold of Block and it's the same test and we call them and ask them, Is it similar to what we're using? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: There are a lot of seasonal out of San Antonio is in here, a major company. Century out of Pennsylvania is in here, a major company. They all hold state certified licenses in Florida. So if we follow these guidelines for the others, then we protect the county or protect the citizens, but I don't think there's going Page 20 October 31, 2005 to be that much work for them. It's going to go so fast. Bill. MR. LEWIS: That and just another comment. Keep in mind just like you're saying, you know, your tile delivery is six months out. So if you've got a tile roof up there that needs replacement, all you can do is secure it and make it -- make it waterproof until the tile comes in which is an aesthetic property, anyway. So, you know, it's not going to be something that where somebody from Chicago can come down here and say, Oh, yeah. There's a bunch of tile problems. I'm going to go up there and put them up. Unless they're laying on the ground in whole pieces, that's the only way you could do it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Now a year. MR. LEWIS: Now a year? It'll probably be 17 months before long. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Materials are in extremely short supply. If you're not an established company, they stopped counter sales. MR. LEWIS: That's another thing for GCs, my best bet is to go to Home Depot or Lowe's. Sunnyland won't even call me anymore, which is a supplier -- local supplier. So like Les said, unless you're an established account with them and buy on a regular basis and show a general account with them, they're not even going to talk to you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I hear a motion? MR. LEWIS: I move to -- that the board approve the emergency ordinances that are in place in the LDC for the licensing of the out-of-state contractors as written. MR. JOSLIN: Second, Joslin. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You want to specify you're doing it for all of them? MR. JOSLIN: Yeah. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I would like to specify roofing. MR. LEWIS: You just want roofing? Page 21 October 31, 2005 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. Because we've got to get to aluminum. MR. LEWIS: Okay. MR. HAMMOND: Well, can -- I'm sorry. Can the motion include all the licenses we want to -- want to be covered under this? MR. NEALE: Mr. Dickson has indicated he wanted to do them one by one. MR. HAMMOND: Oh, I'm sorry. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because we've got to talk about aluminum. We've got two categories. MR. LEWIS: All right. I'd like to amend my motion for it to include roofing contractors only at this point. MR. JOSLIN: I'll make my second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All in favor? Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Passed. Let's do aluminum. Tell us the two licenses. Aluminum is going to be the mobile home and modular home. MR. BALZANO: Both alurninums are identical. One guy pours footers in concrete. The other can only put -- do aluminum. I doubt many of the slabs came out of the ground. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. Okay. MR. LEWIS: So really the only difference is one can pour Page 22 ,.....~-~-..__._~_.*_._"_..- October 31, 2005 concrete. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: These are all mobile homes. MR. BALZANO: Anything that has aluminum they can pour, screen enclosures. MR. NEALE: This is -- it says two different. One's aluminum including concrete and just plain aluminum. The aluminum section of it is identical. The only thing that's added is with concrete these contractors may form, place on grade, re-enforcing steel, miscellaneous steel, pour, place and finish nonstructural concrete on grade only incidental to an aluminum accessory structure and/or screen enclosures. MR. BLUM: It doesn't cement so any aluminum would be okay. Like he says, we don't have cement problems. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We're desperate for screen enclosures. MR. JOSLIN: Wait one second. What about the mobile homes that are blown off the foundations? MR. BALZANO: Most of them are just on tie-downs. MR. NEALE: Mobile homes come under a separate category anyway. MR. BALZANO: And the only thing that collapsed in the hurricane -- MR. NEALE: And mobile home -- mobile home replacement is a state license. And by a person with Jim Walter basically anybody that can fog a mirror can put up a mobile home so... MR. BALZANO: It comes under the Department of Motor Vehicles their license. MR. JOSLIN: Okay. MR. BARTOE: And I'm sorry, I cited a guy for unlicensed-- MR. BALZANO: Not having proper permits. MR. BARTOE: -- permits -- permits for installing a mobile home and the state threatened with getting them fired. They told me they had no business messing with state licenses. Page 23 October 31, 2005 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: These -- these guys, they're desperate because no roofing contractor will work on a mobile home that I'm aware of. It's a totally different ball game. I'm getting calls right and left and I'm turning the people down that have nobody to recommend to them. They're desperate. MR. JOSLIN: Have any of those come through the county yet permitting-wise? MR. HAMMOND: A couple. Based on -- you know, certainly based on, you know, how widespread that particular type of damage is. You know, I think once we make it known that -- that we are expanding out of jurisdiction, you know, contractors who need -- who meet the proper requirements, based on the availability of the commodity which is aluminum, I'm sure we'll get some -- we'll get some applications. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Once again-- MR. JOSLIN: Can I make a comment? MR. HAMMOND: I'd just say, once again, it falls -- it falls into the -- the same arena as the roofing. There's -- you know, I would like __ I would like to see the board just allow us to increase that pool of qualified contractors as much as -- as much as the ordinance allows. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, let's discuss one more before we do a motion so we can close it out with one. We've also discussed general contractors outside jurisdictions coming in. Do you see a need for that? MR. LEWIS: I really -- I see a need for it, but I don't see a purpose for it. I don't think it's going to happen. You know, like we discussed. I don't think that a GC is going to be able to, No.1, accept the responsibility, get the materials and do what they need to do. As far as temporary placement oftarps and stuff, a GC can do that. Anybody can do that really. So in my book, I'm not going to do it. I just won't do it even for my established customers. I'm not going to do it because I can't accept the liability for it. Page 24 October 31, 2005 And another question and Patrick maybe can help us here, I don't know if we have the power as the board to authorize that type of work to be done by the general contractor. I don't know if we can change the scope of the ordinance even in an emergency situation. MR. NEALE: The only scope you really have is to authorize additional persons from outside this jurisdiction who have comparable licensing who have met comparable licensing requirements to come in and do work in this jurisdiction. That's really the scope of the board's authority . MR. LEWIS : Yeah. So we really -- we don't have the ability to allow that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Isn't all residential and general contractors licensed under the state anyway? MR. LEWIS: Not all of them, no. MR. BAR TOE: We have our local. MR. HAMMOND: Once again, if I may, I think -- I think the executive order has already laid out what -- what extra or special allowance the governor would allow general contractors, building contractors, and residential contractors to do. If I -- if I capture it, I think all this board need do is allow that to be out of jurisdiction and regulate it by contractor licensing. MS. KELLER: Do you have the wording from Governor Bush to allow us to see what he -- exactly what he said? MR. HAMMOND: I think it was the Executive Order 05-182. We can -- certainly we can get that. It's-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Would you fax those to the board members? MR. HAMMOND: Certainly we will, yes. MR. LEWIS: Still, another question that I pose at this point: Does the board have the authority to do -- to accept that executive order or is it the purpose of the Board of County Commissioners? MR. NEALE: Well, it really essentially supersedes any authority Page 25 October 31, 2005 because it's statewide -- state of emergency and the governor has the authority to do under that pretty much whatever. MR. LEWIS: Okay. So we really don't have to accept it anyway? MR. NEALE: No. MR. BALZANO: If the governor's saying -- is saying a state-licensed contractor can do this, we can't tell them they can't is the way I'm looking at it. MR. LEWIS: So we really -- really -- the only approval that we would have would be locally licensed to contract. MR. HAMMOND: Versus out of jurisdiction. That's correct, sir. MS. KELLER: Well, so if a state-licensed general contractor wanted to be doing some of this work that you're not interested in doing, if they were state licensed they would be allowed to under this decree? MR. LEWIS: Executive order, yes. MR. BARTOE: They could even do it without this executive order. If they're state licensed, all they need to do is come see us and register to pull permits, $10, and they're in business. MR. BLUM: Getting back to this other gentleman here, if he can call his insurance company and get a Florida rider, it should be done with a phone call and it's doable, he's okay, right? That's really all he needs subject to all the other things. But right now -- MR. NEALE: Subject to discretion of other staff. MR. BLUM: The only thing that stops somebody like them is a Florida insurance rider. So, you know, I mean, you know how easy it is to do that. He calls his local insurance agent and faxes it down here and it's a done deal, right? MR. LEWIS: What -- what type of steps would be used to proof of similar testing requirements? How are they going to present that or approve that? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We already answered that. Page 26 October 31, 2005 MR. BLUM: Staffs got to look at that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: They've been calling. MR. NEALE: Pursuant to the ordinance it does say that the Contractor Licensing Board is the one to determine those jurisdictions, but it certainly is within the purview of the Contractor Licensing Board to delegate that to staff and suggest that that's probably the most appropriate since staff has a much better idea of where -- where there are comparable requirements and where there are not. You have a question? MR. MORENO: Why don't you make it mandatory that the contractor supply you with information on the license and make your job simpler? MR. BALZANO: We do that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's already mandatory. MR. MORENO: And you can call the state up and then it's just a phone call. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Same way with insurance. All that's __ I think we just -- well, we could have done this with a blanket, but I'm glad we talked it out. Let's just do a blanket approval for contractors and they -- if they meet county emergency codes, let the county run. MR. BLUM: Just the deal-- the motion to include the rest. MR. JOSLIN: That's acceptable. MR. LEWIS: I'd propose to amend my previous -- can we do that? We've already accepted it. Let's just do another one. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Just do another one. MR. LEWIS: I propose to accept the ordinance as written for the emergency state of operations to allow out-of-jurisdiction contractors as stated in the ordinance and justified by the staff as to licensing requirements and insurance requirements. MR. NEALE: If it's a blanket motion, the motion should include language that there is an emergency contracting trades shortage -- it Page 27 ._--_...._-'~~' October 31, 2005 says designated categories, but that can be designated -- delegated to staff as to what designated categories. And it needs to have a time certain on it, say a period of time not greater than six months. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Six months. MR. LEWIS: Okay. So this proposal will include categories of licensing as staff so determines outside the jurisdiction, local jurisdiction. And also to be granted for a period of not longer than six months and this is due to an emergency requirement of out-of-jurisdiction contractors needed in the area. MR. JOSLIN: Second the motion, Joslin. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (N 0 response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good. Any other discussion? Anybody else here want to say anything? Tom. MR. HAMMOND: I'd like to thank the board for coming in and helping in this regard. I very much appreciate that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'd like to thank the county and your office and the other people that do this. MR. BAR TOE: I have a question for Mr. Neale. Do we have to get the blessing of the board on the 50 licenses already issued here that I have here? MR. BLUM: No. Page 28 October 31,2005 MR. NEALE: No. The board's already delegated you the authority. MS. KELLER: Second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: There's another question? MS. KELLER: I have a suggestion that if there's any way to communicate this to the public because a lot of people are really confused. I've had people knocking at my door, giving mailers. You know, and I think if you can do some sort of press release to get it in the Naples Daily News because people want to do the right thing. They don't want to put themselves in jeopardy hiring someone. MR. NEALE: I think that's especially important because there's been so many warnings about hiring -- not hiring unlicensed contractors. This way people can understand that it's even more emphatic that you don't hire an unlicensed contractor because the county has given the ability to license whoever needs to be licensed. I think that's -- that's a good point is that probably a press release should MR. HAMMAND: I'll get with public information just as soon as I can on that one. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Tell her, too, in that release that the Department of Professional and Business -- DPR, that they're -- that they have teams down here. MR. HAMMOND: They are here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I mean, they're going through whole neighborhoods. MR. MORENO: On the press release if you put down a little direction for the homeowners to check their insurance and make sure they give them a little direction to call their insurance. MS. KELLER: All they have to do is check with the board. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: One at a time. We're still being recorded. MR. BLUM: This gentleman just come in. Do you have Page 29 October 31,2005 something? MR. SILGUERO: Maybe I'm in the wrong place. I heard through the wind there was a meeting for licensed contractors. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: This is it. It's about over. MR. SILGUERO: I hit a lot of traffic. I came from Immokalee. MR. BARTOE: Would you state your name for the record? MR. SILGUERO: Gene Silguero. THE COURT REPORTER: Spell your last name, please. MR. SILGUERO: S as in "Sam," i-l-g-u-e-r-o. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What we've done is the board has approved under our emergency clause licensing existing contractors with licenses outside of this jurisdiction. It is not an emergency approval of unlicensed contractors. Unlicensed contractors are still subject to prosecution. Which I might state, the first violation is a fine of how much? MR. BARTOE: Three hundred. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Second violation by state law is a felony. MR. SILGUERO: Good. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And it will be actively pursued especially in an emergency zone. Unlicensed contractors in Charlotte after Charlie last year were receiving one year imprisonment so don't do it. MR. JOSLIN: What trade are you? MR. SILGUERO: I'm a general contractor. MR. BARTOE: In Florida? MR. SILGUERO: Yeah. I'm from Naples. I come from Immokalee, but -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: He is a general contractor. He can tell you what changes have affected them. MR. SILGUERO: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Anybody else? Page 30 October 31, 2005 MR. BAR TOE: Staff would like to thank on this short notice of all board members being able to make it except one who's in New York. He will be back later today or he would have been here also. And Mr. Neale also. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Ann came because she wants me to look at her roof. MR. BLUM: She's no dummy. MR. NEALE: I need John to work on my pool. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I hear a motion to adjourn? MR. LEWIS: So moved. MR. JOSLIN: Second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All in favor? Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's unanimous. ***** There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 10:05 a.m. CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD LES DICKSON, CHAIRMAN TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT REPORTING, INC., BY CAROLYN J. FORD, RPR Page 3 1