Backup Documents 05/10/2011 Item # 8A
, '1
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1.
2.
3.
4. Jeffrey A, Klatzkow, County Attorney County Attorney JAK 5/1 1/201 1
5. Ian Mitchell, Executive Manager BCC Board of County Commissioners A..-- ~((( 1((
6. Minutes and Records Clerk ofCoUlt's Office
(The primary contact is the holder of the original document pending BCC approval. Normally the primary contact is the person who created/prepared the executive
summary, Primary contact information is needed in the event one of the addressees above, including Ian Mitchell needs to contact staff for additional or missing
information. All original documents needing the BCC Chainnan's signature are to be delivered to the BCC office only after the BCC has acted to approve the
item.)
Name of Primary Staff Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Contact
Agenda Date Item was 5/10/11
Approved by the BCC
Type of Document
Attached
PRIMARY CONTACT INFORMATION
Phone Number
Agenda Item Number
Ordinance amending" Ordinance 75-16
6(Qll- \
Number of Original
Documents Attached
252-8400
\~
eA
1.
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'''-One
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I: Forms! County Forms! BCC Forms! Original Documents Routing Slip WWS Original 9,03,04, Revised 1.26,05, Revised 2.24,05
08-MGR-00132/33
Date:
To:
From:
Re:
MEMORANDUM
May 20,2011
JeffKlatzkow, County Attorney
County Attorney's Office
Ann J ennej 000, Deputy Clerk
Minutes & Records Department
Ordinance 2011-17: Amending Ordinance No. 1975-16,
as amended, relating to placement and presentation of
matters on the official agenda
8A
Attached for your records, please find a copy of the Ordinance referenced above,
(Item #8A) adopted by the Board of County Commissioners on May 10, 2011.
If you have any questions, please call me at 252-8406.
Thank you.
Attachment
l i.~~
t' ,- .....
Date:
To:
From:
Re:
MEMORANDUM
May 20,2011
Ernie Kerskie, Director
Property Appraiser's Office
Ann Jennejohn, Deputy Clerk
Minutes & Records Department
Ordinance 2011-17: Amending Ordinance No. 1975-16,
as amended, relating to placement and presentation of
matters on the official agenda -
8A
Attached for your records, please find a copy of the Ordinance referenced above,
adopted by the Board of County Commissioners on May 10, 2011.
rfyou have any questions, please call me at 252-8406.
Thank you.
Attachment
SA
ORDINANCE NO. 2011-..1L
AN ORDINANCE OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, AMENDING SECTION ONE OF
ORDINANCE NO. 75-16, AS AMENDED, "MEETINGS OF THE BOARD
OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS," BY ADDING PROVISIONS
RELATING TO THE PRESENTATION OF MATTERS PLACED ON THE
OFFICIAL AGENDA; PROVIDING FOR CONFLICT AND
SEVERABILITY; PROVIDING FOR INCLUSION IN THE CODE OF
LAWS AND ORDINANCES; AND PROVIDING FOR AN EFFECTIVE
DATE.
WHEREAS, on April 22, 1975, the Board of County Commissioners (Board) adopted
Ordinance No. 75-16 which established the time, place and conduct of its meetings; and
WHEREAS, subsequent amendments to Ordinance No. 75-16 reflect the evolving
practices and procedures relating to the meetings of the Board of County Commissioners; and
WHEREAS, the Board desires to amend Ordinance No. 75-16, as amended, in order to
establish minimum requirements relating to the placement of back-up material to items on the
official agenda; and
WHEREAS, the intent of this change is to ensure that the Board's deliberation of any
matter is based on the most accurate and comprehensive information available and to aid the
public in understanding the issues presented; and
WHEREAS, so as not to impede the progress of an agenda item that is time sensitive or
of significant public importance, the Board also desires a process whereby these requirements
may be waived by a majority vote.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT ORDAINED BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, that:
...
SECTION ONE: AMENDMENT TO SECTION ONE OF ORDINANCE NO. 75-16, AS
AMENDED.
Section One is hereby amended as follows:
1. Meetings of the Board of County Commissioners:
* * * * * *
Words Underlined are added; Words Struck Throl:1gh are deleted.
Page 1 00
8A
(c) Agenda. There shall be an official agenda for each meeting of the Board,
which shall determine the order of business conducted at the meeting.
(1) The Board shall not take action upon any matter, proposal, report or item of
business not listed upon the official agenda, unless a majority of the Board
present consents.
(2) The County Manager shall prepare each agenda in appropriate form approved
by the Board. Matters may be placed on the agenda by the County Manager,
any County Commissioner, the Clerk, the County Attorney, and the
constitutional officers. The agenda shall be prepared and distributed not later
than four days preceding the regular meeting.
(3) Prior to the publishing of the agenda. matters placed on the agenda should
include as much supporting documents. information. and materials as is
needed to aid the Board in its preparation and deliberation of the agenda item.
Documents. information and materials will not be accepted by the Board
following publication of the agenda. Should additional documents.
information and materials be presented to the Board following publication. the
Board may, by a majority vote of those present. elect to either continue the
agenda item to a future Board meeting, or waive this requirement and hear the
matter if it determines that the agenda item is of significant public importance
and should not be postponed.
~ ill All requests for a continuance of an agenda item, including matters advertised
for a public hearing, require Board of County Commission approval. No
person shall be entitled to rely for any reason upon any assurances that an
agenda item or public hearing will be continued. A continuance shall only be
granted by an affirmative vote of the majority of the Board Members present.
******
SECTION TWO: CONFLICT AND SEVERABILITY.
In the event this Ordinance conflicts with any other ordinance of Collier County or other
applicable law, the more restrictive shall apply. If any phrase or portion of the Ordinance is held
Words Underlined are added; Words Struck Tlrroubh are deleted.
Page 2 00
8A
invalid or unconstitutional by any court of competent jurisdiction, such portion shall be deemed a
separate, distinct and independent provision and such holding shall not affect the validity of the
remaining portion.
SECTION THREE: INCLUSION IN THE CODE OF LAWS AND ORDINANCES.
The provisions of this Ordinance shall become and be made a part of the Code of Laws and
Ordinances of Collier County, Florida. The sections of the Ordinances may be renumbered or
relettered to accomplish such, and the word "ordinance" may be changed to "section," "article,"
or any other appropriate word.
SECTION FOUR: EFFECTIVE DATE.
This Ordinance shall be effective upon filing with the Department of State.
PASSED AND DULY ADOPTED by the Board of County Commissioners of Collier
County, Florida, this ~ day of ~ 2011,
.~,.~;~',,_~_r-l~iJ
A-r::r:?~~1':Bwj.1rt:;""" BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
I;}~:rqE:'F'E',.~~C~,CLERK COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA
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and e fficiency:
By: ~W,~
FRED W. COYLE, C .
Words Underlined are added; Words Struck Through are deleted.
Page 3 00
8A
STATE OF FLORIDA)
COUNTY OF COLLIER)
I, DWIGHT E. BROCK, Clerk of Courts in and for the
Twentieth Judicial Circuit, Collier County, Florida, do
hereby certify that the foregoing is a true and correct
copy of:
ORDINANCE 2011-17
Which was adopted by the Board of County Commissioners
on the 10th day of May, 2011, during Regular Session.
WITNESS my hand and the official seal of the Board of
County Commissioners of Collier County, Florida, this 12th
day of May, 2011.
DWIGHT E. BROCK
Clerk of Courts and Clerk
Ex-officio to Boarci.-,.Q'.f.....
County commis~iq.zii~~~~~',~!":': #': ::9
, 9~ll
Teresa Pola ":IL.'~'::.':":':~'t~/j~ .'
Q~'r.:j. ~-!t\...
Deputy Clerk :~.u:.' ......,' . '
----------------- -~-
Agenda Item #: "S A Meeting Date : ~ liS 8 A
Presented bY(:... , l..ll L L '2\1...
(3) Prior to the publishing of the agenda. whoever places the
item on the agenda should include as much supporting
documents. information. and materials as is needed to aid
the Board in its preparation and deliberation of the agenda
item.
Agenda Item #: ~ Meeting Date: 5/' 0
~8A
I Presented by: Cb~MISSIDrJe{Z. ,l~tl.(=~. I April 12-13, 2011
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, April 12-13, 2011
------~----_._~_._--------
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board( s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN:
Fred Coyle
Jim Coletta
Donna Fiala
Georgia Hiller
Tom Henning
ALSO PRESENT:
Leo Ochs, County Manager
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Crystal Kinzel, Office of the Clerk of Courts
Ian Mitchell, BCC Executive Manager
Mike Sheffield, Business Operations Manager - CMO
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April 12-13, 2011
MR.. THOMAS: Commissioner Coyle, I'll see you this weekend.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: You're going to have the Irish dancers
there? Good, okay.
MR. THOMAS: See you this weekend.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Are we ready?
Item #9F
AMENDMENTS TO ORDINANCE NO. 75-16, AS AMENDED,
RELATING TO THE MEETINGS OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS THAT WILL
INTRODUCE RULES OF DECORUM AND CIVILITY - MOTION
TO AMEND MEETING ORDINANCE REGARDING
AGENDA/MEETING PROCEDURES AND COUNTY
ATTORNEY TO BRING BACK FOR REVIEW - APPROVED;
STAFF TO INCLUDE ON THE AGENDA CHANGE SHEET WHY
AN ITEM WAS PULLED, CONTINUED OR WITHDRA WN ON A
TRIAL BASIS; COUNTY ATTORNEY TO BRING BACK
RESOLUTION OF WHAT DEFINES A CONSENT AGENDA
ITEM FOR THE BCC TO UPDATE DUE TO THE AGE OF THE
CURRENT ONE
MR.OCHS: Yes, sir. That would take us back to Item 9 on your
agenda, 9F. It's a recommendation to discuss possible amendments to
Ordinance No. 75-16 as amended, relating to the meetings of the
Collier County Board of County Commissioners that will introduce
rules of decorum and civility, and Commissioner Henning brought this
item forward.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you. This item is not to
point any fingers at one commissioner, because I know that finger
pointing only points four back at myself:
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April 12-13, 2011
And also on the way down to the meeting today, I was listening
to Moody's radio station and thought about Matthews 7:3, so I'm not
going to be hypocritical of anybody.
This item on the agenda, the request of the maj ority of the board
present at a past meeting, that is why it's on the agenda.
Nor am I going to -- I want any -- any of this item on today's
agenda for any commissioner to have more power than any other,
because I know that it is a representative form of government.
Nor do I want to limit any commissioner at any time with the
county manager, because I know this is against Florida law.
Nor am I going to ask any of my colleagues to swear on a Bible,
because whatever you state is your opinion.
And at the end of the meeting, members present agreed that I
would place this item on the agenda, and that's why it is on the
agenda.
Commissioners, you read the backup material on today's agenda.
It is my opinion that we don't need any more language to tell us how
to govern ourselves individually and as a representative of your
district, but I know that in the community there are several comments
on how we conduct ourselves, and that's really all I have to say.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Thank you very much.
Commissioner Coletta, you had distributed a one-way communication
indicating some things you wanted to discuss under this item. I think
you've got some good ideas.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, they're basically ideas. I
see that we have certain things here we could do better when it comes
to doing the people's business. Sometimes we have a tendency to get
bogged down without any controls in place.
And I sent you this ahead of time hoping you've had some time to
read it. I know there hasn't been a lot of time. This is one of the
things that's big to me is about notifying somebody ahead of time.
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April 12-13, 2011
Now, you haven't had a lot of notice on this, but at least I got it mailed
to you, like, the day before.
But if you go through this thing piece by piece -- and just for
discussion purposes to see where it's going to take us. One item that
needs to be resolved is how commissioner items are placed on the
agenda and commissioners' use of the county manager's staff time and
other members of the county staff on such items.
At the beginning of a board meeting, prior to the approval of the
agenda, commissioners can question any agenda item for clarity
and/or substance to promote passing such an agenda item. Ifa
commissioner recommends an item be removed from the consent
agenda, that item would have to be approved by a simple majority on
the regular agenda.
Flagler County meeting order of business states the following:
"Removal of an agenda item, any commissioner, the county
administrator, or county attorney may request that an item be pulled
from the agenda, and the commissioners shall vote by consensus
whether or not to delete the item from the agenda."
Now, the way this could be avoided would be simply to involve
staff in a meaningful way so that we can make sure that they're
prepared for it and possibly a position paper put along -- put out there
with it and enough backup so that we know what we're dealing with at
the beginning.
I mean, it's very disturbing to come to an item on the agenda and
try to second guess exactly where the item's supposed to take you.
And only the person that placed it on the agenda has the knowledge in
the direction they want to go. I think a lot more detail should be given
to that.
Also, staff time is a valuable limited resource that shouldn't be
nominated by -- dominated by anyone commissioner without the prior
approval of simple majority of the board.
Prior to eliciting the assistance of staff through the county
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April 12-13, 2011
manager, commissioners should seek approval from the board on all
issues that will require more than one hour of staff time. At no time
can the scope of work differ from what the board authorized by a
majority vote.
Commissioner aides do not work under the county manager and
would be exempt from this restriction. Staff time up to one hour can
be granted by either the county manager for his staff, or the CRA
directors, or the director of the Airport Authority, the MPO director, or
the BCC office manager for his resources.
And, of course, the reason for that, too, is to make sure that our
staff time is being utilized fully and truly what it is. Many times I
come to you beforehand and I tell you what my visions are and what
I'd like to do before I proceed to be able to make sure I can have staff
time for it.
Probably three out of four times you say yes, and one out of four
times you tell me to go away and leave you alone, and I do so
because, I mean, we're here to work as a group to come to some sort of
consensus on many different issues out there.
Chairman's protocol for the right of commissioners to have the
floor. The chairman should be authorized to interrupt a board member
who has the floor if the board member is being repetitive or if another
board member calls a question and receives a second.
Ambush debates by commissioners is strongly discouraged. That
is when a commissioner engages in a major discussion point without
first conferring with the appropriate staff to first get an answer to the
question and/or preparing a position paper that will accompany the
agenda item so that all board members and interested parties may
prepare in advance.
Time availability of information. Information that comes to the
commission's attention too late to provide advance notice to other
board members and interested persons may be considered at the
discretion of the board, or the agenda item may be continued so that
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Apri112-13,2011
such information could be reviewed in advance of any discussion on
the item. Even today we were receiving things; people handed it to us
across the dais.
Board member swearing in by court reporter. Now, this may be
contentious, but I still think we need to consider it. Each official
board member (sic) will commence with the board member being
sworn in by the court reporter. I remember somebody brought this up
to me before. They wondered why we were swearing them in when
we weren't sworn in.
lt is recommended that the ethics ordinance be amended so that
any knowingly or willful material, false, fictitious or fraudulent
statements made during an official meeting of the board may subject
the offending board member to a fine not to exceed $500,
imprisonment in the county jail for a term not to exceed 60 days, or
both fine and imprisonment.
Setting of the agenda. Once the agenda is set on the Wednesday
afternoon immediately prior to the next scheduled board meeting, an
item may only be moved from the consent agenda after discussion at
that scheduled meeting with approval by a majority of the Board of
County Commissioners.
So you'd have to get some justification to be able to move it.
And I'm sure that if we've seen enough concern in it, probably most of
the time we wouldn't have a problem, rather than just arbitrarily
moving it when nothing more than a simple question would suffice.
Too many times we've seen it where the question that's asked--
and a couple questions asked could have easily been answered by
staf:f, and they just -- a person either didn't take the time or they
weren't listening when they asked the question.
So there you have it. For what it's worth, that's my suggestions,
my thoughts, and I'd like to hear yours.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. First of all, I think -- going
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April 12-13, 2011
to the issue of the consent agenda, I think the board has historically
used the consent agenda to avoid public debate of items that deserve
public debate, and that's unacceptable.
The consent agenda isn't something that is supposed to catch
everything, and only by exception should things be put on the regular
agenda. The consent agenda is supposed to be for minor issues, issues
that aren't of a material financial concern. For example, recurring
items like, for example, if you have a lease and the lease recurs year
after year and you have to, you know, ensure that you want to renew
that lease for the next year. That's the kind of thing that goes on the
consent agenda where it's not being rebid or anything like that.
So, really, the description that you have in your paper,
Commissioner Coletta, is actually backwards to the way things are
supposed to be done.
The nonmaterial, minor items that are not deserving of public
debate are placed on the consent agenda, and everything else is
supposed to be on the general agenda.
With that, the decision as to, you know, the -- getting permission
to put things on the general agenda and limiting it to approval in the
way that you're describing basically is preclusive of representative
government. I, as a commissioner, who, you know, represents my
constituents, as you do yours, may want to bring something forward
that's, you know, very important to my district, and now all of a
sudden I can't bring it forward because you're going to subject me to a
vote. That's just not an option~,.\,
With respect to staff tipa~ere's a cle'~r statute on, you know,
what the rights of indi~~l commissioners ~re with respect to staff
time~ and I specificallt~ite 125.7~, ~u?sec}j~n 1, Subsection C, and
that IS that we can -- ,\e have the IndIv~dMflI nght to request the
information of the court~tra~ and his staff to the extent
necessary fOf us to make an informed decision, and to limit our ability
to get the information from staff or for the county manager not to
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April 12-13, 2011
provide that information or to provide it selectively goes directly in
the face of statute.
With respect to cutting off debate basically where you're
suggesting that if a board member calls the question and receives a
second, that debate should be cut oft: that violates Robert's Rules, and
Robert's Rules govern us.
In fact, you need, in effect, a supermajority vote to cut off debate,
not a, you know, three-man vote as was exercised in the past when an
attempt was to -- when an attempt was made by this board to cut off
my ability to speak on an issue where I had a differing viewpoint.
In fact, Robert's Rules provides for two rounds of debate, ten
minutes apiece in each round. And I don't think we should do anything
to limit any board member's right pursuant to Robert's Rules to fairly
debate any issue which comes before this board.
The public has the right to hear our representative positions, be
they for or against whatever is presented.
With respect to preparation, you know, and providing supporting
information or a position paper, there are many issues which, you
know, don't require a position paper, and there are many issues where
the information has already been reviewed by this board, and I've
noted, you know, Commissioner Coyle has presented items where
there's nothing, you know, behind the one sentence he has and, quite
frankly, I really don't have a problem with it.
In terms of timing, there really is a problem with, you know, the
timeliness of getting things on the agenda and making that agenda
available to the public. I actually have a concern that the agenda
comes out so late that the public doesn't have the time to inform
themselves of what's going on.
And, you know, maybe we've got too much on these agendas and
n1aybe, you know, the agendas need to come out earlier with the
backup so the public has the right to review it and come and talk to
staff and come and talk to the commissioners.
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April 12-13, 2011
You know, releasing the agenda on Thursday with the meeting
being Tuesday morning doesn't give the public really any opportunity
to set up meetings and come and talk to us and address their concerns
and have us represent them accordingly. So I really do have a problem
with the timing but in a very different fashion.
And the other thing is, there doesn't seem to be a consistent
cut-offwhen things get on the agenda. You know, if the cut-off is
Wednesday -- you know, I was told the cut-off is five o'clock. Well,
you know, I'm anticipating to turn something in at four because I have
meetings in the morning, and something has come to my attention in
that particular day, and all of a sudden I find I can't do it.
I think there needs to be a consistent hour of the day and that it
shouldn't be some floating hour but rather, you know, if we're going to
cut it off at four in the afternoon on Wednesday -- I actually think it
should be earlier, say, the week before, say -- or Monday, say, four
o'clock Monday. That gives the public, you know, an entire week to
vet their concerns. That's certainly a much fairer approach in the
interest of the public's right to know.
With respect to swearing in, well, I think everybody should be
sworn in. I think staff should be sworn in. If we're going to go the
route of swearing in, if we're talking perjury here and if we're saying
that, you know, whatever is being presented is material to our
decisions being made and we're all relying on it, then I think staff
should be sworn in, I think the public should be sworn in, I think we
should be sworn in. I mean, if we're going to take it to that level,
there's nobody above the truth and, quite frankly, it's -- that is really a
debate in and of itself
So as I said, you know, with respect to your last item, setting the
agenda -- and I addressed that a little earlier, should be a time-certain,
should be well ahead. The consent agenda -- oh, another point about
the consent agenda. I'm finding things, you know, show up on the
consent agenda in the last minute where, you know, had I known, I
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Apri112-13,2011
would have maybe pulled that item and put it on the regular agenda,
but because I, you know, received the fmalized agenda with a consent
already set, you know, I basically have lost my right to pull something
without a vote. That's just not an option. That's just not an option.
We -- you know, we really want to preserve the ability to have
the review of what's on consent before the agenda is finalized so we
can recommend to the county manager if we'd like it moved. But,
again, it goes back to, you know, the definition of what should be on
consent, and consent should not be for material items. So, you know,
that issue of whether something should be on consent really should be,
you know, very insignificant.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Commissioner Coletta, were you
next?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No, sir.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Oh, can I mention one last thing?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I mean, obviously, if we're talking
about amending the ordinance, you know, after -- if we go through all
of this and decide somehow the ordinance needs to be amended, then I
think, you know, we would have to, you know, proceed along the
direction for any, you know, formal ordinance amendment, that we
can't do anything with respect to any of this, you know, without a
formal hearing.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Of course.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Commissioner Coletta, were you
next, or was that Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I was just saying the word "of
course" to the last statement. But no, go ahead. I spoke earlier, but I'll
speak again later. Commissioner Henning was next.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And -- well, Commissioner
Fiala, you don't mind?
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Apri112-13,2011
COMNITSSIONER FIALA: No, you're first.
COMNITSSIONER HENNING: Okay. The -- Commissioner, I
-- Coletta, I don't know. who helped you put this together, but I want to
point out the first item that you mention about removing items from
the agenda quoting Flagler County states, "Any commissioner or
county administrator or county attorney may request the item be
pulled from the agenda," and this will be voted on by a consensus of
. .
commISSIoners.
What you're turning that information around is a commissioner
cannot remove an item from the consent agenda and put it on the
regular agenda. So I mean, it really doesn't -- it doesn't match up. But
I know that whoever helped you with that was trying to put it on the
consent.
It was just like last night. I received an email from a constituent
that had a concern on the consent item. After I looked at the concern
and looked at the consent item, I agreed with that constituent, and it is
on the regular agenda. So that refers back to your last item, which the
agenda is set on Wednesday afternoon. Immediately prior to the next
scheduled board meeting, the item may only be moved to the consent
agenda or continued to a future agenda after discussion of a scheduled
meeting and approved by the majority of the board.
Sometimes, like Commissioner Hiller stated, the public doesn't
get to review -- Nicole -- the item until Thursday. Nicole sends me an
email-- no, that's after Wednesday. So I want to address -- have the
opportunity to address Nicole's concerns.
And as far as staff time, that doesn't belong in the County
Commissioners' meeting ordinance. If you want to put it in there, it
needs to be put into the county manager's ordinance. But as
Commissioner Hiller pointed out, it's against state law.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah, it is. Totally against state
law.
COMNITSSIONER HENNING: You know, and my last --
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COMMISSIONER FIALA: What's--
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's against state law.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: To?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: To limit a county
commissioner's ability to learn about things dealing with the county
government, and that is in the front page, Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, I have your stuffhere, but --
and I was just searching for Lee County where they do have a time, so
I was just --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I will cite you the -- you want
me to cite you the Florida statute?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No, that's all right.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. And the last thing --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: If you don't mind, I'd like it.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Let's see. I put this in --
down on a piece of paper. Florida Statute 125.75, the county
administrator's powers and duties, parens 1, C, provide the board or
individual members thereot: upon request, with data or information
concerning county government and to approve in advance
recommendation of the county government operations to the board.
So individual members has the right to ask questions about county
government.
And, you know, it doesn't say that you have to do it within an
hour. It doesn't say that at all. It might take less than an hour; it might
take more than an hour. But I think we were elected to address -- we
were elected to represent the people, and if it takes -- whatever time it
takes is whatever time it takes.
But looking at this -- and one person did comment to me that -- I
don't know how they got it last night -- that this appears to be an attack
on Commissioner Hiller of her questioning. And in my opinion, if we
start addressing these by making law, there will be ramifications by
doing this. That's my only personal opinion and opinion of somebody
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I talked to last night, so --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner--
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Go ahead.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: First of all, it's been mentioned here
first that the meetings were too long and then there wasn't enough
time, then people didn't have enough time to question or they should
get their advance work done. I, for one person, feel that I would not
want to drag everybody's time on and on and on if I can get my
questions answered beforehand, and then I can bring out any concerns
I have. Once I've done all of my homework, once I've done all of my
research, you know, that to me is very important.
One of the things that we've found, especially if -- and I'm sorry
to just put the finger on you for a minute, but I just have to do this.
One day you went on for about 45 minutes, and somebody told me,
they said, after the first ten minutes, I didn't hear anything else
because it went on for so long. And that is true. I didn't mean to
example you, but that is what happens.
COMMISSIONER IllLLER: Did I speak for 45 minutes?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah, oh, yeah.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER IDLLER: Or was I asking questions?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You know what, after a while we
lost but--
,
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Hiller, don't interrogate
her. Let her speak, please. That's one of the problems we have.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: When you go on too long -- when
you go on too long, actually, you lose the interest of the audience. I
don't care whether you're at a speech -- that's why whenever you go
out to give a speech to a group, you try and keep it to 20 minutes.
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April 12-13, 2011
You don't want to say anything any more than that, because you lose
them. That was one thing I wanted to say.
I personally believe in preparing in advance because -- for the
sake of efficiency. That's my own personal belief I think that that's
important.
I think that we were talking about decorum and, you know -- and
also civility. One of the things that we need to be -- that we need to
keep upmost in our mind, in my opinion -- in my opinion, is respect.
We should always treat each other with respect.
We should never be sarcastic to one another, and we should
never be name calling. We should never make accusations and __
because that's not only unkind, but that isn't even productive. All it
does is incite people.
And what's happened to the people in our audience right now is,
they've gotten very disgusted with us, very disgusted with the
demeanor that we have reduced ourselves to, and that's pretty sad. We
don't need sarcasm; we don't need demeaning remarks.
I think we can conduct business in an upright and honest fashion
and treating each other with respect and with civility and be
considerate of each other at all times. These, to me, are things that we
should be considering all the time.
We should never try and play gotcha. We should never try and
hang somebody out to dry. I mean, that isn't -- what do you
accomplish by that? Maybe you can beat your own chest, "Look what
I've done," but it really hasn't been productive, and it really doesn't
help anything.
So as we talk about civility and decorum, I think that, in my
opinion, that's something that we should most certainly do. And I try
and treat each one of you with respect always. I don't ever want to
treat anybody in any other way, and same with our staff. Our staff
members deserve that, deserve respect and consideration.
And so that's my speech for this moment.
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CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Do I get a chance?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes, you do, sir.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You sure do.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I think we do need -- I think we do need
some changes to the way we conduct the business here. One of the
overriding issues is that we should, of course, do it in a way that is
transparent and in a way that communicates as much information as
we possibly can to the public, and that certainly hasn't occurred in a
number of cases.
So what I would suggest -- and I don't believe this would, in any
way, limit the commissioners in their ability to perform their jobs. I
think it would substantially enhance it, and it would enhance the
efficient, expeditious accomplishment of our service to the public.
And Commissioner Coletta's comments on some of these, most
of these, are right on target, and to bundle them all together and say
that nothing should be on this agenda without adequate backup for the
public, the staf:f, and the other commissioners to review in advance--
when these -- the agenda goes to print on Wednesday afternoon, it
should contain all available information associated with any topic that
any commissioner wants to put on the agenda. That gives the other
commissioners an opportunity to read the backup material, become
informed, and be prepared to reach a resolution and make a decision
when it comes up for debate.
It permits the staff to prepare and provide commissioners with
appropriate information and staff recommendations if they're asked.
It serves no purpose to come into this chamber and throw a bunch
of stuff at the staff or at other commissioners when they're not
forewarned, they're not prepared to respond. No decisions can be
made, so it just lingers there and we have to have another meeting to
resolve the issue. That is highly inefficient, and it serves no purpose
whatsoever.
So I would like to ask for the board to make it very, very clear
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April 12-13, 2011
that when we put something on the agenda, and when the staff puts
something on the agenda, all available information should be available
as backup in the agenda, and we shouldn't be hit with information at
the very last minute before we have a chance -- when we don't have
sufficient chance to consider it.
Our job, after all, is to fully evaluate each of those issues in
public, in a public hearing, and let the public know what decision
we're making and why, and we can't do that when we have these
ambush kinds of presentations.
So -- and that pretty much would cover probably three of the
items; it would solve three of the issues that Commissioner Coletta has
suggested in his memo. And I would strongly recommend that we
adopt those changes, if necessary, by ordinance to make sure that
these agenda packets are properly assembled and information
provided to the public and everyone else.
Yes, Commissioner Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes, sir. I'd like to second your
motion.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I went out of order. I should have called
Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Oh, forgive me. Call
Commissioner Henning.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So to summarize what you're
saying is when a commissioner brings something on the agenda, bring
information to read?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Backup information.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Backup information.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yep.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Similar to the census
information?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I don't know.
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COMMISSIONER HENNING: No, the item that I had about the
census bureau and the count in the county?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah, that was fine.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's an example of it.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah. That was an example, a good
examine, of what we should do.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: But there was more information.
I just -- it just kept on coming.
To our best ability, to have all that backup information ahead of
time so we have a -- an idea what the item is about and a clear
direction where we're going to go.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Not just we, but the public, because it --
those agendas are available to the public.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And we need to communicate that
information to everybody as early as we can, and Wednesday evening
is sort of the cut-off: because that's when we start making copies of all
this stuff.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And my last question.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Klatzkow, do you think
that's appropriate to put that amendment into the meeting ordinance?
MR. KLATZKOW: You can do that. It's all board policy. You
can do that by ordinance; you can do that by resolution. It probably
fits best in the ordinance itself.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
MR. KLATZKOW: But--
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I'll make that motion that
we amend the ordinance for items on agenda, have as much backup
material as possible in a clear executive summary, not only for the
board, but the public and the staff.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Executive summary and backup
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April 12-13, 2011
information if backup information is available and appropriate. I
mean, it's not -- it would not be adequate to just write an executive
summary in a very, very vague and abbreviated manner so that people
don't know what you're talking about.
People should be -- come here to this meeting prepared to debate
the issue. They shouldn't come here and have things sprung on the
public and the board and then take another meeting to have an
appropriate response prepared. We need to make sure that staff is
prepared to answer our questions, and they can't be prepared to ask
(sic) our questions if they don't know what the questions are.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. And I think we're saying
the same thing.
MR. KLATZKOW: Yeah. I think I understand. I just --
sometimes these things happen in a very quick manner, and like I was
dealing with Commissioner Henning and these things were going back
and forth, so not everything did hit the agenda.
Do you want to give yourselves the discretion to just -- if
something pops up, just to waive it with three votes so you can hear it?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yes, we should always have the ability;
if something comes up that is of sufficient importance and we don't
think that we are depriving the public or the staff of important
information, then we should have the ability to put it on the agenda.
But too often it has become sort of a practice to come in here and
ambush somebody.
So that's -- I think that sort of thing would solve a lot of the
problems we have with respect to conflicts.
Now, I would be remiss if I didn't bring up one other item which
is clearly going to be a bit contentious, because it happened just a few
moments ago.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We don't have a second to the
motion.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: We do. Yes, we do.
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COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I was waiting for an
opportunity. Go ahead, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Oh, that's right. I'm talking too much.
Go ahead. Let's get that motion--
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: You're doing a fine motion.
And, Commissioner Henning, you're on the right direction,
exactly what I'm thinking. And you are too. You've got to have the
ability to be able to accept new evidence as it comes forward where
everybody says, okay, under these circumstances, we realize this is
important, and because of the fact it's late for this reason, by all
means, let's enter that into the discussion.
But rather than all these handouts coming at the last minute --
there's no way on God's earth you can read four or five pages while
you have the person in front of you. Meanwhile, you've got the
documentation in front of you so they can always claim later, well,
they had the documentation. They didn't read it. It's not my fault.
They did have it in their possession.
So we have to be very careful at all times to make sure when we
do receive something, we understand what we're receiving, and that
gives us the ability to be able to accept something or deny it.
If anybody walks in here and you know they could have been
better prepared and they drop something on the dais going up and
down that's a hundred pages deep, we can refuse to accept it or
continue the meeting till -- that part until another future meeting we
have time to absorb everything. Just a better way of doing business.
If you take this into consideration in your motion, then I'm there
with you, and I'll give you a second.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I mean, that was already -- that
was already said. But we have stuff given to us by the public and staff
all the time.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And if you start boxing yourself
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April 12-13, 2011
into a comer, it's -- it's going to be contentious. But I hear you. I don't
like those things either. Some of the things that you -- we just need to
accept, that we're going to get stuff ahead of time.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah, I think -- yeah, you're right. I
think we can make common-sense interpretations of that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: You got it.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: If something -- if staffs comes up with
something last-minute, you know, okay we accept it. We don't need
to chastise them about it, but we don't want people intentionally
withholding information. We want it to be available in this book
which is available for public review. And if you want to vote on that
now --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, just one thing. Of course,
the county attorney is going to go back and refer to the ordinances to
find something that already has worked someplace, I'm sure of that,
and we'll be able to view it again --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- to be able to come to some
logical decision.
Do you have enough information on this one particular item?
MR. KLATZKOW: Yes, I understand this one. I think I
understand the direction. Of course, we're not going to advertise the
ordinance. We're going to come back to you for your review of it, and
then it will be modified, then we'll advertise.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And you've got a motion and a
second.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Then all in favor of the motion.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, just a minute.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Oh, I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You were going to say something
else.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I was, but I didn't want to interfere with
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this motion. If we can get this motion passed, then we can go on to
another motion.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, okay.
CHAlRMAN COYLE: If you'd like -- which might fail.
Okay. So all in favor of this motion, please signify by saying
aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any opposed, by like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. It passes unanimously.
Now, I was going to go on and say two other things. One is, I'm
not here, and I don't think the others are here, to try to demonstrate
how smart we think we are. I -- I go to great pains to get my questions
to the staff by email before this meeting certainly no later than Sunday
night and -- so that I don't have to take up the time of this board to
answer questions that I can get answered.
And I would -- I can't see putting this in an ordinance, but I
would just make the request of the board members to please do that. It
bogs things down when we spend a lot of time asking the staff
questions about something that we could have gotten answered before
we ever came into this meeting.
And for that reason, you know, I don't even mention those things.
If the staff has answered my question adequately, the issue never
comes up again for me. It's done. It's solved. I know what it is.
Now, the other thing that I was going to bring up was that a
comment was just made that we have used the consent agenda for the
purpose of avoiding debate on things of great importance. Now, that
might be an opinion of someone, but we can't let that statement stand
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as fact because it is -- fact is untrue.
We go to great lengths to make sure that we give as much public
information as we possibly can. And the evidence of success of that is
demonstrated by the fact that we seldom have anyone in the public
who wants to talk about something that is on the consent agenda. It is
very rare that anybody has a concern with anything on the consent
agenda. Even the commissioners commonly will only pull from the
consent agenda one or two or three items, and I think we should
continue to let the commissioners do that.
But there is no -- no attempt to slip things throug~ in the consent
agenda because we want to conceal it. That simply isn't true. And if
we took time to debate everything that was in the consent agenda, we
would have to plan these meetings for four or five days in length, and
I doubt seriously if there'd be anyone out there who would want to sit
through that and listen to it.
We try to do things efficiently, and I think we've been very, very
successful at doing that in the past.
But we must find a way -- without getting really contentious, we
must find a way of confronting these kinds of remarks and accusations
and correcting them so that the public doesn't think that that's the way
we do business. And that has been a problem now for six months, and
I hope that it will go away, but it may not. And if it doesn't, I think
we're going to have to consider some of the other suggestions that
Commissioner Coletta has recommended.
So I would be very much in support of that. And -- but at the
present time, I think I've gone as far as I want to go. But I think we
should take a good look at your recommendations concerning willful
material, false, fictitious, and fraudulent statements. That's something
I think we might want to keep in mind as we go forward.
So -- nevertheless, now we've got a whole board lit up. They
want to talk. So, Commissioner Fiala, you get to go first.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. Thank you, because I wanted
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to follow you. You'd mentioned about emailing your questions and so
forth, and I think that that's very important, because by emailing our
questions to staff members in advance, everything becomes a matter
of public record. So no matter what questions anybody has
afterwards, they can ask for public-records request, and it's all right
there. It's not done in private or anything. It's all in writing, and
anybody can obtain them, as long as you use your county computer, of
course, and -- which is something I always do.
And so I think that that was something great to say, as well as the
consent agenda. Heck, our meetings are lasting so long now as it is.
If we -- if we didn't have our consent agenda to absorb some of these
things that are minuscule, you know, code-enforcement cases and
satisfaction of liens and, you know, and so forth, my goodness, we
would go on forever and ever, and that was the reason for the consent
agenda in the fITst place.
Now, I don't know about anybody else here, but I read the whole
consent agenda. I always know what's going on there. Not only that,
we get it in advance, because they start preparing this thing well
before it goes to the printer.
So if anybody -- and we can all find it right in our iPads, what's
being planned for the agenda and so forth. If we don't like something,
we can always ask the county manager about it. If we still don't like
it, we can still say, pull it, put it on the regular agenda, before it's even
gone to print or anything. So those are ways that we can deal with it
and still try and improve the efficiency and timeliness of our meetings.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Coletta?
---. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes. I do believe we probably
accomplished a lot today, just having the discussion, an open
discussion.
One of the things, though, like pulling an item from the consent
agenda, when the staff pulls it, they usually give some sort of remark
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why it was pulled and some consideration of it. Wouldn't it serve us
well if an item's going to be pulled from the consent agenda, that we
would get some prior notice from the commissioners just
for-your-information one-way communication?
I'm pulling this item because I have concerns over dadada,
dadada, and staff was unable to answer those questions. And then,
fine, now we come into the meeting. We know what we're supposed
to be looking for and what we're supposed to be able to deal with, and
so does the public. The public's not sitting out there saying, okay, I
wonder why this item was pulled. What part of it did they object to?
I might object to the same thing, and they might not be able to sit here
through the whole meeting to wait to hear about it.
But if we could have that ahead of time, and then we'll know
everybody did due diligence, that you have contacted staff and it
wasn't a simple yes-or-no answer or how many widgets were in this
place or that. We've got something to be able to work with, and we
can all go forward totally prepared.
And let's forget at this point in time of trying to remove items
that people pull from the consent agenda and put it back, and let's just
come up with an understanding rather than even putting an ordinance
together, that from here on forward, if we're going to pull something
from the consent agenda, we'll state the reason why, hopefully in an
email well in advance so staff can be prepared or, like Commissioner
Henning said, information coming in at the very last moment and you
want to pull it up here on the dais, and when you pull it at that time
saying, this is the reason why. I got a constituent and they stated these
particular facts are a great concern to them, and I'm pulling it for that
reason. Okay. We're all fine with the world. We can go forward. We
Imow what we're dealing with. Can we agree to that?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah. Does anybody have --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah--
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- without making a motion and
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second?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Anybody have objection to doing that
just as a practice?
CO:MMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah.
CO:MMISSIONER FIALA: No, I think that's a good idea.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: You have objection to it.
CO:MMISSIONER HENNING: Sure, yeah.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Sure, you have an objection to it?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: You don't have to give -- you don't want
to give a reason as to why it's being pulled?
CO:MMISSIONER HENNING: No, because the statements here
were not factual, and let me tell you why.
I had a concern on pub- -- the summary agenda on public
utilities, and all of a sudden staffpulled that item. Now, it wasn't
explained to anybody why it was being pulled and continued. Nobody
knew that. The--
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Wouldn't you like to have that
explanation, though, from staff?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Why?
CO:MMISSIONER FIALA: Why?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I mean, it's coming back. Why
would you want to -- you're going to be hearing an item when we're
going to vote on the item. Why would you want to discuss it twice on
the agenda? A lot of times things can be addressed real quick during
the discussion of that item, but now you want to talk about it twice.
The second thing is -- the second thing is, and more important,
about the consent agenda. I know for a fact -- and this has been
verified by our staffs in the County Commissioners' office, when
certain commissioners have a concern about an issue, other
commissioners know that concern in advance and discussed in private
meetings. That doesn't allow transparency. Those items of concern
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should be brought up in the public and discussed in the public.
And let me tell you one last thing. I have asked questions of
staf:f, and those questions or concerns got back to land-use attorneys.
Now, I was talking to that staff member, not a land-use attorney. So
I'm going to govern myself accordingly so we can get, you know, the
truth, and don't try to stifle a conversation to get a consensus what we
should be doing for the public.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Let me try to clarify something.
There might be a misunderstanding.
At least my thought was that on this agenda change sheet that
when somebody wants to pull something from the consent agenda and
place it on the regular agenda, that they would mention why here, not
privately or anything else, but here, and we get that when we come in
here. So we're not going to debate it at -- twice. We're just going to
see it and treat it just the way we did today when we said -- it says that
-- Commissioner Henning's request, and three things were actually
continued, and other things were moved from the consent agenda.
If someone said, Commissioner Henning's request because of
concerns about the cost or the method of procurement or something
like that, that would be helpful to us all. But you find that
objectionable?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That isn't what was stated just a
few minutes ago. And I appreciate you using me as an example, but
the example that I brought that was on the consent agenda was
continued by staff. Are you saying staff is to --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Absolutely--
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, absolutely.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- to do that?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Exactly.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I'd like to know why staff continues
things. I'd like to know whether it's because of an advertising
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problem, whether it's because sufficient information or incorrect
information was provided or, in one case that I think I'm familiar with,
it was because something wasn't completely staffed and they figured,
hey, maybe this isn't the time we ought to be debating this. We ought
to finish staffing it properly.
So that would be helpful to all of us, I think, to know those kinds
of things.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Especially the public. Public has a
right to know. And not only that --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The public's not going to see the
changes.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- for transparency.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The public doesn't see --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: But we read them, and people know why
they were pulled or why it was changed.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And my last thing, we're getting
off the topic on the agenda, you realize that?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And we -- have we really
addressed civility and decorum?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, I did.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes, you did. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yes, you did. And I think the changes
that we have agreed to have improved the chances of that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And while we're off the topic,
do you think it's getting warm in here?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Feel my hands. I'm icy cold.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I'm comfortable. You're just having a
hot flash.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. Drink some water.
Yeah. Can we come to an agreement to what to do on this one
last issue? The rest of these can sit until some point in the future.
Page 156
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April 12-13, 2011
CHAIRMAN COYLE: The one last one was the one we were
just talking about?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Right, right. We haven't come
to any agreement. We didn't put it in the form of a motion because we
were trying to get a consensus across the board just to do it.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Well, let me just ask the question.
Would the commissioners find it objectionable if we included on our
agenda change sheet the reason that things were either pulled from the
consent agenda, or summary agenda, or withdrawn or continued? It
would just be a brief statement as to why it was done.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I don't have no objection.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Does anybody have an objection?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I have no problem with that. I think
it's a great idea.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Henning has a --
obviously has a problem.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No. I didn't say anything.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Are there any objections to this?
Okay.
COMMISSIONER IllLLER: I'm concerned about the extent to
which -- I mean, from a staffs perspective, I don't see a problem, but
I'm just concerned about commissioners in some way communicating
their vote ahead of the issue being presented in the public forum in
these communications, and I'm not sure if that will lead to that. So
I've got a concern about that.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Well, I don't think it's commission- __
commissioners aren't necessarily communicating a concern any more
so than they are by pulling in the first place. When it's pulled, you
know the commissioner's got a problem with it.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: But you're asking for the reason
why.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah, that's right.
Page 157
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,. :~
'-
April 12-13, 2011
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And there you're, you know -- I
don't know. I think there's a potential problem. Staffs reason for
doing something, I don't see any problem with that, but the
commissioners revealing their positions ahead of the public debate in a
public vote appears leading.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We could -- I'm sorry. I didn't
mean to jump in front of you if you weren't done.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. Jeff, this would be a
one-way communication, wouldn't it? So it wouldn't be any kind of
problem to do it, would it?
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, I mean, Commissioner Hiller raises an
issue. I don't know from -- I would not suggest you put this in an
ordinance or resolution.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah.
MR. KLATZKOW: I would see if -- you see if it works.
Commissioner Hiller may be right. You don't want to inadvertently
communicate a vote here. We're not going to know until we live with
this for a while whether that's an issue or not.
From staffperspective, I think it's a great idea to give the reason
why something's been continued.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: If the staff -- yeah, okay, okay. Let's try
it for a while and see what happens.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Try it in which way?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Try it -- let the staff give reasons for
each of the things that have been pulled by the staff.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And then--
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And leave the others alone for a while.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And then can we -- can we
direct the county attorney to come back with a little more detailed
opinion in maybe a month or so?
MR. KLATZKOW: Well, what I'm hearing is, at this point in
Page 158
.8A
April 12-13, 2011
time you want to limit it to staff. So if we continue it, we'll give you
the reason?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, but that's kind of empty,
you know, I mean, because we're looking for everybody's reasons.
That's where we're falling short on this. I'm willing to do it as a
voluntary type of thing. I do think we can handle just saying,
whatever information it is, a brief little thing, send it to your office
first, and you make that decision. I don't know. But I do want to be
able to know what I'm dealing with when I walk in this room.
MR. KLATZKOW: I mean, it could be as simple as, the concern
was raised as to the financial impact.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's fine.
MR. KLATZKOW: Simple as that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: At least that's something. Then
I would concentrate on the financial-impact part of the whole thing if I
wanted to do my own discovery.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And let's face it. If -- say, for
instance, you pulled something off the consent to put it on and a
reporter called and said, you know, I saw you pulled it off and you
give him an answer, then everybody knows it anyway. It doesn't make
any difference Commissioner What or you're interviewed on a TV
program or you're interviewed on a radio program or you're giving a
speech. I mean, everybody knows what it is. You're not talking to one
another, but they all know what you just said. So, you know, those
things -- it's really no different.
I think what we're all trying to do is say, we want complete
transparency and we want --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Amen.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- the public to know what's going
on. We want the public to have a right to know what we're doing,
what we're thinking, and how we're going into the meeting. It's all
about being open in open government.
Page 159
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April 12-13, 2011
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. All right.
Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Nothing.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Did you have anything else?
Commissioner Hiller, did you have anything else?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. I'd like to make a motion.
I'd like to make a motion that the ordinance be amended to include a
definition of what constitutes a consent-agenda item, and I think we
can look to guidance to Robert's Rules of Order for that, but basically
it should be those items that do not need discussion or debate because
they are either routine procedures or already have unanimous consent.
Specifically, the items which are routine and procedural and also
decisions that are likely to be noncontroversial. It would include
examples like the approval of the minutes, which we now spend time
approving by open vote; final approval of proposals of reports that the
board has been dealing with and are -- are really more informational in
nature rather than reports that will lead to specific action; routine
matters such as appointments to committees, staff appointments,
requiring board confirmation unless there's some, you know, public
debate required with respect to that; correspondence requiring no
action; grant applications for a threshold amount that's de minimis,
like, for example, under a hundred thousand; expenditures which are
under a certain threshold, for example, $25,000 or 50,000, whatever
would seem reasonable; routine renewals of contracts, such as leases,
things of that nature.
And, of course, we can, you know, have the county attorney
propose something and bring it back.
MR. KLA TZKOW: There's a board resolution that created the
consent.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I'm sorry? Well, then, you know
what, I'd like to -- if there's already --
Page 160
Apri112-13, 2018 A
MR. KLATZKOW: I'll forward that to you.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I'd like to see it because I --
MR. KLATZKOW: It needs work. It's very old.
COMMISSIONER IDLLER: So maybe that's what we need to
do. Thank you for mentioning that. If we could bring that back,
maybe send a copy to all the commissioners, get their input, and then I
think what we need to do is redefine what is on the consent agenda.
And I'm just giving you a few examples.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Commissioner Henning, did you
-- you raised your hand because you wanted to be excused or because
you wanted to speak?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I'd like to -- well, then I'll just wait
and I'll bring this up at the next meeting, because I would like to see
the --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: We need to take a break. We're way
overdue here.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, just one quick suggestion
here.
Commissioner Hiller, could you put it in some sort of dialogue
for us to read beforehand?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, Jeff is going to do that.
MR. KLATZKOW: I'm going to send you each a copy of the
resolution, and if any of you want to bring it back at a future date, you
know, we can bring it up as a regular agenda item that way.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I would like to. I'd also like to
bring up as an agenda item in the future the release of the actual
agenda itself to the public. I think it needs to be moved up ahead. I
think the public deserves a full week to review the agenda and the
backup.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: How are you going to do that, Buddy?
Page 161
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Apri112-13,2011
COMMISSIONER FIALA: We're never going to be able to do
that.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: They do it in other jurisdictions. I
understand -- I think Miami does it.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah. Other jurisdictions don't do
nearly as good a job as we do of getting these things documented.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, if we --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: But we're taking a break because we're
30 minutes overdue.
MR. MITCHELL: Mr. Chairman, could I just make a quick
comment about that? Because that week I had to let Commissioner
Hiller down because there was an item she wanted on the agenda. We
were running late and we had technical problems. And in the end, the
item didn't hit the agenda.
For the commissioners, I would ask, until you resolve when the
agenda's going out, that the agenda closes at 12 noon on the
Wednesday before the board meeting.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
MR. MITCHELL: And it's only if it's an emergency that it
would go on after 12 noon on the Wednesday, and that would help
with -- for Commissioner Hiller because, as I said, we didn't have time
to resolve it for her.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
:rvrn.. MITCHELL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: We're taking a break now for you, Terri.
Enjoy it.
MR. OCHS: How long, sir?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Ten minutes.
(A brief recess was had.)
MR.OCHS: Mr. Chairman, you have a live mike.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Ladies and -- do we have a live mike?
Ladies and gentlemen, I -- before we continue with the agenda,
Page 162
aw8 A
April 12-13, 2011
it's important that you witness something that you probably will
seldom witness in the future, a person reaching such an advanced age.
Someone here is having a birthday today or soon -- two people are
having birthdays here, Commissioner Fiala and Ian Mitchell.
And so we're going to sing Happy Birthday to both of them.
(Happy Birthday was recited in unison.)
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. Where do we go, County
Manager?
Item #9H
COMMISSIONER HENNING'S REIMBURSEMENT
REGARDING ATTENDANCE AT A FUNCTION SERVING A
VALID PUBLIC PURPOSE. HE ATTENDED THE CHABAD OF
NAPLES ANNUAL BENEFIT EVENING & GALA ON APRIL 10,
20 11 AT THE RITZ-CARLTON HOTEL IN NAPLES, FL. $150 TO
BE PAID FROM COMMISSIONER HENNING'S TRAVEL
BUDGET - MOTION TO APPROVE COMMISSIONER
HENNING'S EXPENDITURE - APPROVE; COUNTY
ATTORNEY TO DEVELOP A POLICY FOR
REHvtBURSEMENTS AND TO LIMIT IT TO FOOD AND
BEVERAGE ONL Y
MR. OCHS: Sir, we're on Item 9H, which was previously Item
16H4, regarding a reimbursement for travel expense. This one was
moved at Commissioner Henning's request.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes, thank you. I'm really
confused by conversations I had with County Attorney -- I believe it's
County Attorney's Office and Ian Mitchell.
I received an invitation to attend the event held by Naples Sabot.
Page 163
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