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CLB Minutes 07/20/2005 R July 20, 2005 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE CONTRACTOR LICENSING BOARD Naples, Florida July 20, 2005 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Code Enforcement Board in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: Les Dickson David Beswick Sid Blum Michael Boyd Lee Horn Richard Joslin William Lewis ALSO PRESENT: Patrick Neale, Attorney for the Board Robert Zachary, Assistant County Attorney Paul Balzano, Supervisor-Licensing Compliance Officer Tom Bartoe, Licensing Compliance Officer Page 1 AGENDA COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD DATE: JULY 20,2005 TIME: 9:00 A.M. W. HARMON TURNER BUILDING (ADMINISTRATION BUILDING) COURTHOUSE COMPLEX ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THAT TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED. I. ROLL CALL II. ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS: III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA: IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: DATE: APRIL 20,2005 V. DISCUSSION: VI. NEW BUSINESS: Michael S. Eastman - Request to qualify a 2nd entity. Robert B. Holloway - Request to qualify a 2nd entity. Michael Quinn - Request to qualify a 2nd entity. Jesse Sowanick - Request to be granted a county Tile & Marble license based on his New Mexico Residential contractors license. Bob Lambert - Request to be granted a county Master Electrical license based on his Georgia Master Electrical license. Constantine Huzdup - Request to be granted a county Tile & Marble license based on his State of Florida Business & Law grade. Mark A. Ward - Request to waive exam for Floor Covering license. David Derence - Request to be granted a Floor Covering license based on best grade. Zsolt John Komlosy - Request to be granted a county Cabinet Install. Contr. license based on his State of Florida Business & Law grade. Yves Legault - Request to reinstate his Drywall license without a credit report for the previous company. VII. OLD BUSINESS: VIII PUBLIC HEARINGS: IX. REPORTS: X. NEXT MEETING DATE: Wednesday, August 17,2005 July 20, 2005 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good morning. I'd like to call to order the meeting of the Collier County Contractor Licensing Board, July 20th, 2005. Any person who decides to appeal a decision of this board will need a record of the proceedings and therefore may need to ensure that a verbatim record of the proceedings is being made, which it is, which record includes that testimony and evidence upon which the appeal is based. I'd like to start with roll call to my right, Mr. Lewis. MR. LEWIS: William Lewis. MR. BESWICK: Mike Beswick. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Les Dickson. MR. JOSLIN: Richard Joslin. MR. HORN: Lee Horn. MR. BOYD: Michael Boyd. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any -- I also need approval of the minutes of the last meeting, which was, wow, April? Or May. Yeah. MR. BAR TOE: April 20th. MR. JOSLIN: I have a -- I'll make a motion to approve the meeting -- or the minutes. However, I have one comment to make about them. In reviewing these, since I wasn't at the meeting last month, there was a verbatim motion made in here that I didn't really pick up in the minutes as being a motion. It was carried through and it was done, finished; however, it was never really said it was a motion. It was discussions, just for the record. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Whereabouts? MR. JOSLIN: It started Page 12. Mr. Lewis was speaking of trying to help someone out. He knew him for 20 years. He felt that it was -- unfortunately he couldn't at this time, in good judgment, according to this ordinance, recommend passing this. Then it went on to other conversation, and then you asked for a second. I don't know if it was in the form of a motion or it was just discussion, so -- Page 2 July 20, 2005 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Neale, should I do anything? He's right, doesn't really show the motion. MR. NEALE: Which -- do you have a page? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Page 12. I'm really impressed someone read all the minutes. MR. JOSLIN: Well, that's my job. MR. NEALE: Yeah, there was no formal motion made. Although I think Mr. Lewis's statement could be that -- interpreted as being a motion, even though it was not formally stated as one. And it was seconded as if it were a motion. So I think for purposes of the record, I think we're fine. You know, it was treated as a motion. So while the formal language wasn't there, I think the intent was there. MR. JOSLIN: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We've got a motion to approve the minutes. Do I have a second? MR. BESWICK: Second, Beswick. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. BESWICK: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Agenda. Mr. Bartoe, any changes? MR. BARTOE: Good morning. For the record, I'm Tom Bartoe, Collier County Licensing Compliance Officer. Staff has some additions. Under discussion, staff has three additions. And we believe probably we could put the discussion down at the end of the meeting after the new business. And those additions are: We should possibly look into ordinance amendments. That's number one. Page 3 July 20, 2005 Number two, discuss Mr. Bradshaw, who received a citation and has been corresponding with Mr. Balzano, and you've received copies of his correspondence. Add that as number two. And number three, we would like to discuss maybe changing our meeting location while the construction's going on here, possibly up to our building on Horseshoe Drive. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What is the schedule for that construction? MR. BARTOE: I myself have no idea. I was told they're going to be building two parking garages at about the same time. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, just because the parking in here. MR. BARTOE: Yeah, I don't think parking's too bad for you people. And I was told that you people can also park, board members, in the -- there's a fenced in lot down here where board members coming for meetings would be allowed to park. Staff has a little tough time parking. We've received e-mail that if we park in the wrong spot, our division administrators will be notified, et cetera, et cetera. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Just there were more parking spaces this morning than I've ever seen. MR. LEWIS: I know. It was like -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We can pick you guys up, okay? MR. JOSLIN : We'll send a shuttle over to get you. MR. BAR TOE: And then staff has one more addition under new business. Mr. John H. Yoder, who I passed his packet out this morning, he requests to be granted a plumbing license based on his Tennessee license. And staff has no other additions or deletions. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, do I hear a motion to approve the agenda as amended? MR. LEWIS: So moved, Lewis. MR. BLUM: Second, Blum. Page 4 July 20, 2005 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. BESWICK: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. Let's jump into it. We're going to hold off discussion. Michael Eastman, are you present? MR. EASTMAN: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you would come up here, sir, to this podium on the left. State your name, and I'll have you sworn in. MR. EASTMAN: Morning. My name's Michael Eastman. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Tell us what you're doing and why. MR. EASTMAN: Well, my brother and I have been in business eight, nine years now, and I've been doing concrete for about 15 years. Starting to get a little wore out, a little tired. He's still young, wanting to get aggressive, get bigger. And I'd like to vouch for him for the second entity until he gets going. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You don't look old enough to be getting tired and worn out. MR. JOSLIN: No gray hairs? My goodness. MR. EASTMAN: Yes. Concrete will age you. MR. JOSLIN: That's the first sign, you know. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So you're going to qualify your brother's company and let him grow his? MR. EASTMAN: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Until he gets his own license, I assume? MR. EASTMAN: Correct. Page 5 July 20, 2005 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you understand that if he messes it up, he'll take you down with him? MR. EASTMAN: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Give us just a second to look here. Anybody has any questions, feel free. MR. JOSLIN: What type of concrete work do you do now? MR. EASTMAN: Slab and tie beam. MR. JOSLIN: Slab and tie beam? MR. EASTMAN: Yes, sir. MR. JOSLIN: Any complaints on his license in the past? MR. BARTOE: I didn't hear you, Mr. Joslin. MR. JOSLIN: Any complaints in the past -- MR. BARTOE: No, we have not. MR. JOSLIN: -- about his workmanship? Unless anyone else has any comments or questions, I'll make a motion that we approve this. He has a great credit app. and the gentleman deserves another entity. MR. BLUM: The only point that comes up a little bit is the length of time to pay bills, that it appears to be growing. It takes longer to pay. We're all kind of familiar with construction. I'm assuming that because of concrete and -- MR. EASTMAN : Well, not only that, but at that point in time, when the hurricanes came through it was kind of hard to get stuff poured when certain areas didn't have power. And, you know, you got to kind of pay your guys and then pay the materials and then you pay yourself. So we got a little bit behind, but we've taken care of it. MR. BLUM: I kind of thought that was the answer. Thanks. I would second the motion to approve. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We've got a motion and a second. Any discussion? (No response.) Page 6 July 20, 2005 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Call for the vote. All those in favor? MR. BESWICK: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. Opposed? (N 0 response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You got it. Note to you and everyone else who comes up here today: Your files are not at the county with contractor licensing, so don't go over there today. But you can go tomorrow. MR. EASTMAN: All right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay? MR. EASTMAN: Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Best of luck to you. Robert Holiday (sic), are you present? MR. HOLLOWAY: Holloway. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Sorry about that. If you'll follow the same procedure, state your name, I'll have you sworn In. MR. HOLLOWAY: Robert Holloway. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: By the way, once you're finished, you're free to leave, unless you just want to watch this spectacle, okay? Tell us what you're doing and why. MR. HOLLOWAY: Well, I have a company now, Managed Maintenance, I own with my two sons. I sold the company about three years ago, Sealco Southwest Florida that I was in business for 10 Page 7 July 20, 2005 years. And to be able to finish up my non-compete, I had to settle with some of the money that they owed me. So in order to recoup some of that money, I started up Marco Island Painting. Also, I have a retirement plan where in 10 years I plan on selling that business but turning the Managed Maintenance business over to my two sons so that I can have steady income. So that's the reason why I want two different companies: one that I can be able to sell in 10 years and one that I'll be able to have some type of retirement Income. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Wasn't Sealcoat a paver stone sealer? MR. HOLLOWAY: No, it was different types of coatings. It was mostly new construction painting, though. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. So you're just basically starting up so your sons can take it over? MR. HOLLOWAY: No, I want to start up Marco Island Painting. I will be sole owner of that company. That one there is the one I would like to sell in probably another 10 years. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You got buyers? MR. HOLLOWAY: Not yet. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any complaints on this individual? MR. BARTOE: On Managed Maintenance, no. So many years ago I can't remember, I remember one on Sealco, and what I remember about it, it was a customer I don't think you could have satisfied if you would have painted his house free. MR. HOLLOWAY: That's true. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you remember that one? COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah, unfortunately. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I've had those. I even had one two months ago, Mr. Balzano, that filed a complaint against me, and I didn't do any work for them. MR. BALZANO: Oh, yeah, I remember. MR. HORN: Mr. Holloway? Page 8 July 20, 2005 MR. HOLLOWAY: Yeah. MR. HORN: On one page here you checked off yes, you had been charged with or convicted of acting as a contractor without a license? MR. HOLLOWAY: Yeah, that was just recently. That was with the Marco Island Painting. MR. HORN: Okay. MR. HOLLOWAY: Yeah, I had got some bad advice from my lawyer saying I could run both companies under one license, and obviously I couldn't. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You met Michael Ossorio, right? MR. HOLLOWAY: I believe that was who it was. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You'd be surprised how he gets around. Any other questions? MR. JOSLIN: For clarification. Maybe I'm confused. On the corporation's report, it shows registered agent as William Kramer? MR. HOLLOWAY: Right, that's my lawyer. And I have to do it that way because he has to have an office where legal documents can be delivered. And since I operate out of my home, I have to do it that way. MR. JOSLIN: Okay. That's what I thought. I was just checking. MR. NEALE: That's typical to have your attorney as your registered agent. I'm probably registered agent for about 50 companIes. MR. JOSLIN: Right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Anybody else? (N 0 response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What's the desire of the board? MR. BESWICK: Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion that we grant this request. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I hear a second? Page 9 July 20, 2005 MR. JOSLIN: Second, Joslin. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? (N 0 response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. BESWICK: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You got it. MR. HOLLOWAY: Okay, thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do well. MR. HOLLOWAY: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Michael Quinn, are you present? Sir, come up and follow the same drill. MR. QUINN: Michael Quinn. Good morning. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So you are AFC Electric? MR. QUINN: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you're wanting to qualify a second entity. Tell us why. MR. QUINN: I think I have a unique approach. Maybe I don't. Maybe you've heard it all. I (sic) probably have. What I have is a group of employees who are very good at what they do. Most of them are Hispanic and their English is not as good as it should be. I'm pretty bilingual myself, so it really works in well. The company that I want to -- the second company that I want to Page 10 _"...-~,~_"<."._.,_._._~__ .. '. d July 20, 2005 qualify -- and I wrote a letter to you guys kind of stating what I was doing. AFC Electric has been in business for 15 years, and it's developed quite a few assets and it's a pretty good-sized company at this point. We do about eight to $10 million of work every year. What I want -- what I've noticed in my employee base is that a guy will work better if he has some skin in the game. So that's basically every -- that's in a nutshell what I'm doing here. I'm forming a second entity to give these guys some skin in the game. So AFC Elec -- it will be AFC, LLC and AFC, Inc. Inc. is the one that's existing now and LLC is the one I want to qualify. They're both going to be in the same office, they're both going to be with me. I'm going to be the majority owner of both. But the LLC, I'm going to give my guys a percentage of. A small percentage. But it's going to allow them to have skin in the game and it's going to allow them to take ownership in what they're doing. So that in a nutshell is the reason why I'm requesting for a second entity. I don't want to -- it's not fair to me to give them a portion of the company that I've worked so hard to build. I want to do another company that doesn't really have any assets at this point that I can give them that they can grow it with me. That's what I'm up to. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. So you're going to control both companies? MR. QUINN: Absolutely. They'll-- right now there's six of the guys that I'm thinking about that I want to do it with. So they're going to -- you know, every -- it's an LLC, so there's a dilution factor. But I'll never be diluted to below about 65 percent. I think that's what my lawyer has it set up as. So I'll always own a majority interest. And I want to, because it's my license and I want to be absolutely in control. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Personal issues I won't get into. I think you're crazy, from an accounting standpoint. And that's my background is accounting. But I assume you've sought counsel. MR. QUINN: Absolutely. Absolutely. Page 11 July 20, 2005 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Anybody have any questions? MR. BLUM: I personally think it's a fantastic idea and I applaud you. I did something similar with a surface business. I think it's a great idea. And not only do you retain the people you want to retain who are the top echelon. And also, it generally is the Latino guys, and it encourages them to get language skills -- MR. QUINN: Yes, sir. MR. BLUM: -- and it also encourages them to bring in new people that they want to work with who continue to do a good job as helpers and apprentices. I'm well aware of what you're doing. I think it's great. MR. QUINN: Well, we've done it on a --like a bonus program. And you can't believe the efficiencies that these guys have created. They have turned jobs that take, you know, a -- you know, a 45-hour job, all of a sudden they're doing it in 30 hours and they're doing a perfect job. And our superintendents out there have never been happier with us. It's hard to please the Centex's and the Beazers and the Engles, but they're tickled to death. It's unbelievable. MR. BLUM: What happens is that they see to it that the guys and the crew that you may not be aware of are slacking off a little bit. It don't happen because they're going to be making them accountable to them. MR. QUINN: Absolutely. MR. BLUM: Yeah, it's-- MR. QUINN: Beautiful. Worked out amazingly. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I love the bonus deal. The other thing that I saw Steve Lawson with Knotts Plastering do was he set up a program where he got all of his employees into houses. Do the down payments. And he started this seven, eight years ago. Now most of his people own their own home. MR. QUINN: That's awesome. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Which with the appreciation, you can Page 12 ----""',.,^- July 20, 2005 imagine what that did. MR. QUINN: Absolutely. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any questions on the application? (No response.) MR. BLUM: I make a motion that we approve this application. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any complaints on AFC? MR. BARTOE: No, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Do I hear a second? MR. JOSLIN: I'll second the motion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any discussion? (N 0 response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. BESWICK: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We wish you well. MR. QUINN: Thank you, gentlemen. I'll work on the accounting. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I just see the bookkeeping nightmare. MR. QUINN: We already have -- we've already looked into that. It's going to be challenging, but it can be done. It will be fine. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Best of luck to you. MR. QUINN: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: John (sic) Sowanick? Am I even close? I must be, because he's not here. MR. NEALE: Jesse. Page 13 July 20, 2005 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Jesse Sowanick. Sorry. MR. NEALE: Neither John nor Jesse are here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Still not here. George Sowanick. All right, I give. Bob Lambert, are you present? If you'd come forward. MR. LAMBERT: I'm here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Request to be granted a county master electrical license on his Georgia master electrical license. If you'd state your name, I'll have you sworn in. MR. LAMBERT: Yes, sir. My name is Bob Lambert. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Fire away. MR. LAMBERT: Okay. I have moved down here from the Atlanta area. I have been retired from General Motors as a lead engineer for General Motors for all the electricity for General Motors at the door (phonetic) assembly plant. I was in charge of keeping all the robots going. I was in construction for about 14 years at IBEW before that. I had my own company for a while until I had a hard time collecting money. I did the east side -- I believe it was the east side of M.A.R.T.A., going through Atlanta. And I mastered that job with the minority contractors from Dallas, Texas at Jefferson Electric. I mastered that job. We put the substations in. I did a few years at college, Georgia Tech, University of Georgia. I've been doing electrical work now for 43 years, and my gray hair is gone. I have been down here a couple of years now. I've been to Forbis Electric right now. I'm running a job now over on Orange Blossom and Airport, the new TAG office, right next to the library. I went into the Navy Seabees as a construction electrician. I was over in Viet N am for a while putting runway lights in that they would come on and go off, depending on the pilots coming on. Page 14 July 20, 2005 I was a generator control man in Antarctica, Palmer Station, Antarctica for a year. Both of my uncles were superintendents, one from Cleveland and one from Backabee (phonetic) Electric. I have worked for large contractors in Atlanta. I've worked on hospitals. Anything from a liquor store to a hospital. Like I say, right now Jefferson Electric, I got some letters here that people are slow getting them to me. That's about it. I'm trying to get my licenses down here. I'd like to say I'm retired from General Motors. And the wife and everybody says, why do you want to get back into it? Well, I really don't know. But I've got to have something to do. And a lot of guys in Atlanta who's wanting to come down. Good boys, union guys, just retired. And we thought about getting a company started and start doing some commercial and industrial type work, not residential or multi-family units, condos. We want to stay on the higher end of it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Neale, I know we can supersede testing by experience, which obviously I don't think anyone wants to challenge his experience. There's not a test involved, is there, a business and law or anything? MR. NEALE: Well, I was just looking at the -- he's applying for a master's electrician license. And aside from the basics, scores on an examination, including area of competency tested are supposed to be submitted. But the board does have it in their power to waive that testing requirement. A statement of his business or work experience during the past 10 years; statement of any formal training in the trade categories for which application is made. And then they're supposed to submit a state registration number or statement that the applicant has made application for a state registration number. Individual business organization's tax number. Proof of insurance. Workers' compo If there's a fictitious name to be registered, fictitious name, et cetera. So those all have to be in there. Page 15 July 20, 2005 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But he's doing it all under Forbis? MR. LAMBERT: No. No, I'm going to have my own. Tech Support is going to be my name of it, once I get the licenses. MR. NEALE: What -- you know, what the board can do is waive the testing requirements as, you know, that's within the purview of the board in 22.184(C). So the board could waive the testing requirements and then he would be subj ect to all the other licensure application provisions. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Everybody clear on that? Any questions? MR. BLUM: You're working for Forbis now; is that it? MR. LAMBERT: Yes, I do. Yes. MR. LEWIS: To waive the testing requirements, does that include also the business and law? I think that's kind of important. We need to have that covered. MR. NEALE: Yeah. You know, the ordinance is not specific on what testing requirements can be waived. It effectively says you can waive any or all testing requirements, depending on the board's -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: There is a business and law with the master's electrician. MR. NEALE: Yes, right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. LEWIS: My suggestion would be to waive the testing requirements for the skills or the trade, but the business law, I think we need to have that taken care of to protect the state. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I agree with you. MR. BLUM: I think I have to go on record as being a bad guy here. Sorry. I have no doubt as to this gentleman's competency. Forbis is a well recognized name. Good reputation. And his background and skills are great. I see the testing goes back 35, 40 years when he has licensed last. Being in business for yourself is not the same as working for Page 16 ----- ,-, ._~-~-,--"_...__..""._,." July 20, 2005 somebody. You're going to find when you're in business for yourself that things are going to come up that you're going to have to deal with as far as codes, especially electrical. In this county it's a tough, tough thing to do. I know about it personally. And I wouldn't be comfortable personally unless you pass all the required tests. There's an awful lot of people down here going into business. Electric especially is -- with the new stuff coming out. MR. JOSLIN: I think I have to agree with you, Mr. Blum. Only because of continuing education and things that have changed over the years. Every year I know we get code changes and difference with national electric codes. And the last thing I want to do is have -- send someone out here with a business that does something unknowingly wrong and hurt something or someone. So I have to agree with you. There's no doubt, I think you have the skills. I just don't -- I think we need to have it a little bit more updated, and I think that would help yourself, too. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You two look like you have a face that you have a comment, so comment. MR. BALZANO: I just thought all electricians in the United States worked under the same code, National Electrical Code. MR. LAMBERT: We do. I taught electrical code in Atlanta for three years, Atlanta area, technical school. MR. BALZANO: That's what we inspect by, the National Electrical Code. MR. LAMBERT: It's all the same. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I can tell when you want to talk. I can tell when you want to say something. Any other discussion? I don't -- my opinion is, I agree with Mr. Lewis, I don't have a problem. In 15 years on this board, I have never had anybody with these kind of qualifications come before the board and ask that we waive the testing. Now, I agree, the business and law, if he's going to run his own Page 1 7 '--'- July 20, 2005 company, I want the business and law. But I don't have the slightest problem with his qualifications. MR. BLUM: I don't either. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Or his experience. MR. BLUM: I don't either. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So we fire away-- MR. BLUM: I think he needs to pass the test. MR. LEWIS: Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion-- MR. BLUM: It shouldn't be that hard to do. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Fire away, let's see where we go. MR. LEWIS: -- if discussion is ended. I make a motion to waive the testing requirements for the trade portion of the licensure, but that he would have to pass the business and law test and then make the applicants (sic) to the county contractor licensing, as required by the code. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Second? I'll second it, Dickson. I can't make them, but I can second them. Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, we got a motion. All those in favor? MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. Opposed? MR. BESWICK: Nay. MR. BLUM: Nay. MR. JOSLIN: Nay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You should buy a lottery ticket today. MR. LAMBERT: I give up on that many years ago. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, I know. You have to buy them Page 18 ,--.._---- July 20, 2005 to win, don't you? MR. LAMBERT: Yes, you do. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I don't have a shot then. MR. LAMBERT: I did that for about five years, $20 a week. And I started adding it up and said, no, it's not worth it. I gave up. I'd rather go to Las Vegas, it would be better. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You are going to have to take the business and law -- MR. LAMBERT: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- but we did waive your qualification. MR. LAMBERT: Yes, sir, thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I hope you do very, very well. MR. LAMBERT: Thank you, sir, appreciate it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Best of luck to you. Next up is Constantine Huzdup. Huzdup. I probably butchered that name. I apologize. If you would pronounce your name and I'll have you sworn in. MR. HUZDUP: Yeah, my name is Constantine Huzdup. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, and you've taken your test for tile and marble? MR. HUZDUP: That's correct. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But your scores are a little short, right? MR. HUZDUP: Yeah, the business and law. I took the business and law part, the Florida state license, that -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Talk a little bit louder. MR. HUZDUP: Okay. The business and law, I took the exam like a year ago for Florida. And I passed it. And I just want to have it ingraded ( sic) for Collier County. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I understand. Collier County requires a 75 and everybody else requires a 70, right? Page 19 ------- July 20, 2005 MR. HUZDUP: That was the Florida state license. Would cover the whole Florida. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: When did you take that test? MR. HUZDUP: That was February, 2004. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Why didn't you go take it again? MR. HUZDUP: That was for the -- that was not for tile and marble, it was for roofing license. MR. BAR TOE: He passed, according to probably where he lived. They probably require 70. MR. BESWICK: In Fort Lauderdale? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, Fort Lauderdale is 70. MR. BAR TOE: What I'm trying to say is that's probably why he didn't try to take it again. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, you had your license in Fort Lauderdale? MR. HUZDUP: Not for tile and marble. I have the state license for roofing. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: For roofing? MR. HUZDUP: Yeah. And I will change -- try to change not do roofing anymore, try to do tile and marble. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You went from roofing to tile and marble? MR. HUZDUP: Oh, actually, I took the test. I didn't do -- I didn't have my own business on roofing. I was just trying to go by -- I was working for a roofing company and then I was trying to get roofing license, which I did, which for state. And then I have some friends of mine which they work down here in tile and marble, which I did some work a while ago, and I was trying to start something new. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. So have you been working anywhere else, any other counties besides Collier in tile and marble? MR. HUZDUP: No. Page 20 ...---.-- July 20, 2005 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No? You've just been sitting on this score for a year and a half, right? MR. HUZDUP: No, the tile and marble, I pass the exam like a few months ago. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, two months ago. MR. HUZDUP: Yeah, two months ago. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But the business and law was a year-- MR. HUZDUP: Business and law was like a year ago. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Lewis? MR. LEWIS: Yeah, I'm just confused. Number one, all I see is an 80 percent passing grade. I presume that's on the tile and marble is what it says. MR. HUZDUP: That's correct. MR. LEWIS: But we have, under his other testing, I presume, I don't see any signs of who gave it to us, but it says the passing score on the business and finance was 72.5, and that was back in 2004 for the roofing contractor's license. MR. HUZDUP: That's correct. MR. LEWIS: Is it my understanding that the business and law for the roofing contractor license back in 2004 would be considered the same as it is today for the tile and marble? MR. NEALE: I would think so. I think that's the same test for everybody. So, you know, he was two and a half points short of a Collier County passing grade on that. MR. LEWIS: Right. And are we certain -- question for Mr. Bartoe or Mr. Balzano. Do we know for certain that the Lauderdale area or his hometown would have required at that time a 70 percent passing grade? It says a minimum. I guess we have to take that as a truism? MR. BAR TOE: Well, this looks to me like it's a Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation exam. And I'm assuming that's their minimum passing grade. Page 21 July 20, 2005 MR. LEWIS: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Did you get a roofing license? MR. HUZDUP: Yes. I apply for it and I got it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What did you get? Did you get a state certified license? MR. HUZDUP: Yes, state certified license. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So you took state test. MR. HUZDUP: Yes, state test. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Which I think some of us have taken. MR. JOSLIN: Right here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, but that's not his license. MR. JOSLIN: They're saying that he passed it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I've really never seen one of these, and I really don't like them. But I wish you would have given us a copy of your roofing license. Do you have that on you? MR. HUZDUP: I got a copy of it, if you wanted to look at it. MR. BLUM: That's the same thing we got. MR. LEWIS: That's not really a license. MR. HUZDUP: Let me see what I got. I don't know if that's going to help at all. MR. NEALE: That's got the license number on it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's a BCC? Okay. MR. LEWIS: Yeah, certified roofing contractor, State of Florida, as of7-17-04. Expires 8-31-2006. MR. NEALE: So he's currently licensed as a roofing contractor. MR. BLUM: Good as it gets. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That is as good as it gets. Because I've been told of all the contractors in the State of Florida, 10 percent are state certified. I don't know if the state tests are any more difficult than the county tests. MR. JOSLIN: They are. Page 22 July 20, 2005 MR. HUZDUP: As far as I know, it is. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I mean, I took state, but I never took the county. MR. HUZDUP: More books. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I mean, you could make a lot of money off of this. You could go to jail, but -- they're selling them all over the state right now. They're even running ads in papers. I turned two of them to the DPR fraud division. I read them in the trade magazine. Even gave their license number. How smart was that? They would qualify them for $300,000. Qualify a company. I'll let you have this back. You can get it when we finish. What's your -- board's feelings? MR. BLUM: My feeling is that this is a guy that probably can do well at whatever he sets his mind to. And for two and a half points, I'd be inclined to let him have it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I agree. He's a state certified contractor. MR. LEWIS: I'd have to agree, too. He's been through it, he tested, he's had it, he's still got it, still active. MR. JOSLIN: I think the two and a half points, if I'm not mistaken, I think it's like one question. MR. BLUM: Question and a half. MR. JOSLIN: Question and a half, right. MR. BARTOE: If approved by the board, staff would just request that you put in your motion a completed application. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Anyone want to make a motion? MR. JOSLIN: I'll make the motion we approve the application, with the exception that he provide a complete packet to staff for approval, and if there's any discrepancies in that packet, that he will have to come before the board again. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We're going to waive the-- Page 23 --.-._- July 20, 2005 MR. JOSLIN: We'll waive the testing requirements. MR. BLUM: I'll second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is that clear enough, Mr. Neale? MR. NEALE: Yeah, I've got it all -- there'll be orders issued for all of these, so -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. BESWICK: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Approved. You got it, my friend. We wish you-- MR. BAR TOE: Mr. Huzdup, I don't know if you have received an application yet or not. MR. HUZDUP: Yes, I have. MR. BAR TOE: Once you have everything complete, you can bring that into the office staff, and they'll help you out. MR. HUZDUP: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: While I'm thinking about it, you're going to have a bunch of orders to sign after this meeting. I'm leaving the country as of Friday morning. I won't be back for a month. So would you tell Maggie to put the vice chairman's name on the orders? You'll need to run by and sign those. MR. BAR TOE: Mr. Neale makes the orders up. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Will you do that? MR. NEALE: Sure. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Are you going to get them done before you go? Page 24 -'-"--- July 20, 2005 MR. NEALE: Well, I just e-mail them to Maggie, so I'll get them done on the fly and she'll get them e-mailed. The magic of technology. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, he's catching a plane this afternoon, too. MR. JOSLIN: Are you going back to Germany again? MR. NEALE: No, China. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Riding up the elevator, I said, where are you going? He said, Beijing, China. And I find out -- and I'm leaving Friday for Beijing, and we're across the street from each other at a hotel. Tell me this isn't a small world. He's going to see if my wife is with me. I believe I was going to do the same thing. MR. NEALE: Except I'm there for business. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's no excuse. Mark Ward, are you present? MR. WARD: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Come on up. I've always wanted to say, come on down. MR. WARD: I'm Mark Ward. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Have you sworn in. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Now you want us to waive your exam for a floor covering license? MR. WARD: Yes, I do. I took the test four times. Kept getting worse and worse. I do commercial floor covering. Government buildings, hospitals. I'm well experienced in all the field, do excellent work and been in business about 15, 16 years, and don't want to get fined no more. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So you started in February and you took it again in April, May and June? MR. WARD: Correct. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Did you party the night before in Page 25 ------"....- July 20, 2005 June? MR. WARD: No, I work too much to really study full-time. I own a business and -- I got my licenses for Lee, Charlotte, Dade, Broward. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'll see where the board wants to take it. MR. JOSLIN: What type of license -- you have the same type of license in Dade and Broward and all these other counties? MR. WARD: Yeah. I did Winn Dixie remodels over there and stuff like that. It's all commercial, you know. I don't do residential, I don't do ceramics or marbles or none of that. Just glue-down vinyl and carpet. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: How did you get your license over in those other counties? MR. BAR TOE: A lot of jurisdictions only require an occupational license for floor covering. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Really? MR. BAR TOE: Lee County does, I believe. MR. WARD: Yeah. MR. NEALE: Yeah, if I may-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, the reason we don't have copies of other licenses is it doesn't matter if it's an occupational license, because that's not a license. MR. BARTOE: That's all they need, sir, in a lot of jurisdictions. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's an annual $18 dues fee. MR. BARTOE: I agree. MR. NEALE: If I may, in -- as in previous ones, you may consider the relevant recent experience in the specific trade and upon such experience may waive testing requirements. But in the ordinance there's also a requirement that that experience should be evidenced by some kind of affidavits or copies of certificates or other documentary evidence. Page 26 '-..'- July 20, 2005 In the previous case you had a copy of another certified license and documents on completions of courses and things like that; whereas, here you just have the testimony of the witness and a set of test scores. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Single sheet, right. Of course what he's asking to us waive right now is we're not even addressing the test for the -- we're only looking at business and law. MR. BALZANO: No practical. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: There is no other test for him. And what this board has always done in the past is we've been lenient with numerous, numerous tries when they've improved and they've gotten real close, our requirement is 75. And the closest you were was 66. MR. WARD: Yeah. Then it got worse and worse. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Then it kept getting worse. The only one I can think we ever approved was a guy that took it __ I keep going back to him, but the guy from Poland, he took it what, eight or nine times, and he finally got up to 73 and we approved it. MR. WARD: I never was good at timed tests, in school or nothing. Good with my hands, my back, my head. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I understand that. MR. WARD: I got an accountant that does all my business, law, all my -- you know, handles all my accounts. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And that's the requirements of the county to run a business. Because you may be the greatest tile layer in the world, but you can't run a business. MR. WARD: I can run a business. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I know. I'm not saying specifically. MR. BLUM: Can I ask you, what difference -- from what I'm hearing, you do mostly for big companies, commercial work? MR. WARD: Plain Miles (phonetic), Acousti, West Coast Page 27 ._..--- --~.,._-'"-".~._~.~-~_._.,_.~--"- July 20, 2005 Insulation. MR. BLUM: So what difference will it really make in your livelihood whether you have a license or not? How will it affect your MR. WARD: I'll get fined if I work in Collier County. I've already gotten caught about three years ago by Mike, and it cost me 300 bucks. He told me if I do it again, 500 from there on in, you know. It don't pay a lot of money to be paying $500 fines. MR. BLUM: Okay. So it's just a question of working in Collier County, that's your issue. MR. WARD: Yeah. And at schools and stuff like that. It's all-- you know. MR. BLUM: So you're working as a contractor for these people, you're not -- MR. WARD: Yeah, I'm a sub, sub labor only. MR. BLUM: Okay. Got it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Anybody else? MR. LEWIS: Yeah, I just think, you know, I commend the gentleman for coming to us and at least asking the question. Most people just pay the fine and go on that I've known. But I think I would have to see something. You've been in business this many years, I'd have to see some type of proof of something that would show me that you have a federal employer identification number that you've been paying your taxes or on a proper level or, you know, some kind of accounting practices before we could even -- because the business and law portion is not just for your protection, which is the main thing, but it's for the public's protection, too. MR. WARD: I've got all that down in my briefcase in the car. MR. LEWIS: I think, you know-- MR. WARD: I can show you all my licenses, I can show you my federal J.D. number, my exempt card and my payment book that I pay Page 28 _._."-_.__....-..._._..."-_.._~,. July 20, 2005 for my 941. I pay every 14th of every month. MR. LEWIS: Copies of proof of that -- MR. WARD: I have all that downstairs. MR. LEWIS: -- with a packet might sway my opinion. I don't know about the board, but I -- just with this -- and this is not very impressive what we've got in front of us for your application, just your failing test scores. MR. WARD: Yeah. MR. LEWIS: So I might suggest that he reconsider and apply again before the board with some more information. MR. BAR TOE: My thing is he's wasting his time filling out an application if he doesn't get the go ahead to -- a full application will tell us an awful lot, you know, a credit report, et cetera. Work experience, et cetera. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I can tell you, I'm only one vote on this board, but I've not seen a 66 ever get approved. I've seen 72's and 73's get approved. MR. WARD: I feel if I keep taking it, I ain't going to do no more but spend money. I've already got almost a grand tied up in it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But if you -- they do offer -- there's two groups that we do testing with. The one up in Gainesville does do tutoring. MR. WARD: I've been to the school with Experior, then I took the Gainesville test. I've never had a problem in any other county to get a license, go in, pay 30 bucks, fill out the application, boom. Because it's -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Collier County is more difficult. MR. WARD: Yes, Collier County is the only one that required -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I know. So I have a motion not to approve. Is that correct, Mr. Lewis? MR. LEWIS: I haven't made that yet, but I will now. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I wasn't trying to put words in your Page 29 July 20, 2005 mouth. MR. LEWIS: If the board's finished with their discussion, I'd like to make a motion to disapprove as applied for. MR. JOSLIN: Second, Joslin. MR. BLUM: He's taken the test a lot of times. And what I detect is a big frustration factor. The gentleman has definitely got a problem with testing. And there are a lot of people that are awful damn qualified that were just a problem with testing. And we all know people like that. And it's just the way things are. You're only talking about four months here. You took four times. You're really pushing the envelope and trying like heck. If you could take your time and calm down a little bit, I think can you do this. I'd sure like to see you do it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any more discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I have a motion and a second to disapprove. All those in favor? MR. BESWICK: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You got to find a way to pass it. MR. WARD: Oh, well. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You can do it. Thank you. David Derence? Derence? If you would come forward, please. MR. DERENCE: My name's David Derence. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Have you sworn in, please. Page 30 July 20, 2005 (Speaker was duly sworn.) MR. DERENCE: Mine's exactly the same as the other guy. I took it four times, but I got 74 last time. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I wish you had gone first. MR. DERENCE: But I went from 58 to 68 to 70 and I had my wife studying. I come home tired. You know, because I still lay carpet in Bonita. And she was on my case about it. She thought for sure I would do it this time. Each test I take is different, too. So I actually took it four times. So it's actually harder to take four different tests than it would be to take one. So I kind of got it mastered, I think, after -- but the ones I got wrong, she went over. So I know if I took it again I would do it. But I don't have really the time. Like right now I have to go do a job. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: See, I don't have any problem with you. You took it four times and you're at 74. MR. DERENCE: Also, I'm 42 years old and I've been doing it since I was 19. And that was probably the first test I got close to. So I come back, I'm ready to put my head through the wall. MR. JOSLIN: That's enough. Don't say no more. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You do a stand-up comedy routine? MR. DERENCE: They make fun of me. But that's about-- MR. BARTOE: And probably your wife does your books. MR. DERENCE: Yeah. And she works for Collier County. She does, she works for Collier County. She didn't want me to tell you. But I might as well now, to make it good. She works in the zoning. MR. JOSLIN: That's enough, that's enough. You're getting yourself in deeper, believe me. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If everyone was watching -- I mean, you saw the last case and you see yours, and your wife does your books. You know, it's like -- it's a difference between day and night. I don't have a problem with -- if you get a motion up here, I'm going to vote, you know, for you at 74, and you worked your tail off to get Page 3 1 '..--'~-'- .-----"'- July 20, 2005 there. That's all we want. MR. DERENCE: Yeah, and I didn't even take the class. I did it on my own, you know. Like in the class, they give you all the answers, you know? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Who do you work for? MR. DERENCE: Right now I'm working with Abbey. But I worked for DeSoto Carpets, subcontract. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Michael ever find you? MR. DERENCE: Who? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mike Ossorio ever see you? MR. DERENCE: Oh, you mean for the fines? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. MR. DERENCE: Oh, I've had two fines already. About a year ago and like two years. And I got fined right down the road from where I live. And he even said, he goes -- I took the test, it was the second time I took the test, and he says -- I told him I flunked it twice and I had to take it the third time. He goes, what are you, stupid? I go, if I was smart, would I be laying carpet? I mean, I've been doing it 23 years. I mean, my God, it's like one of the worst things you could do in life. That's why I felt sorry for the other guy, because I know exactly where -- he really deserves it, because it's such a screwed up job to do the rest of your life, you know? And it's not like you have a business. It's like you're just going -- they give you a work order, you look at it, you go to the house, you do the job. And you're either good -- you know, the bad people get -- you know, we fix everybody's screw-ups. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I bet you're a gas to have at the house for the day. MR. JOSLIN: I bet. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I would love for you to lay my carpet. MR. DERENCE: I can't. Page 32 ..---.-". - ----,._---~._.._.~._._.."..<_.._~---_._. ,- July 20, 2005 MR. JOSLIN: I'll make a motion. MR. DERENCE: I can in a couple minutes, maybe. I did Lynn Swan's, the Steelers. MR. JOSLIN: I'll make the motion to approve this application. MR. BLUM: I'll second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any discussion? MR. JOSLIN: With waiving the testing requirements. I'm sorry. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. You'll do a full packet? MR. JOSLIN: Right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. BESWICK: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Guess what? You're legal. MR. DERENCE: Thank you. Anybody need donuts? MR. BARTOE: With the completed application. MR. DERENCE: What do I do, just come tomorrow and get it? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Contractor licensing tomorrow. See Maggie or one of the girls there. MR. DERENCE: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: They'll get you squared away. MR. JOSLIN: You might stop by and see Michael Ossorio tomorrow, too, in there. Just tell him you're legal now. MR. DERENCE: Thank you. MR. BARTOE: Sir, have you received an application to fill out Page 33 .~......-- July 20, 2005 from licensing? You have to complete an entire application. And if that's the case, you don't have one, you can go up there right now and pick one up. MR. DERENCE: Up at licensing? MR. BALZANO: You don't have to wait till tomorrow. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Contractor licensing, on Horseshoe Drive. MR. DERENCE: Okay. I have to get an application? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. Not a big deal. MR. DERENCE: All right, thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do well. I love that. See, we have no -- I mean, does anyone have any qualms about turning him loose on the public? MR. JOSLIN: No. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: None whatsoever. I mean, great guy. That was super. Michael Ossorio, we've got to come up with a name for him. He's like a grey ghost. MR. BALZANO: This new guy's doing pretty good, too, Allen. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You're going to be the same way? MR. LEWIS: Look at him grin. MR. JOSLIN: No heart. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No, it's just like you guys are everywhere. I'm not even going to try the first name. Your middle name is John Komlosy? I want to hear you pronounce this name. MR. KOMLOSY: John Komlosy. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Say it again? MR. KOMLOSY: John Komlosy. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Komlosy. Is that Russian? MR. KOMLOSY: Hungarian. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Hungarian. Page 34 ..---_..-.---- July 20, 2005 Welcome. I need to have you sworn in. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let me find your paperwork. And let me find your paperwork. You are here. So you're wanting us to grant a cabinet installation contractor license based on your State of Florida business and law grade. MR. KOMLOSY: It's actually marble, granite countertop installation. I've been in business -- I'm in marble, granite fabrication and manufacturing, and right now in the process of opening a manufacturing part of it. And I want able to install the products, countertops and vanity tops. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So you passed the state requirements for a residential contractor? MR. KOMLOSY: That's correct. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Did they issue a license? MR. KOMLOSY: No. I didn't get the license yet. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But you passed everything? MR. KOMLOSY: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Congratulations. MR. KOMLOSY: I don't want to get the residential contractor license at this time, because it's a longer procedure. And right now what I'm doing, I like to install counter tops. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Questions of the board? Go ahead, I'm sorry . MR. KOMLOSY: I don't know if that's -- not cabinet installer instead of countertop and marble. I think it's a tile -- tile and marble installer. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Are we in the right category? He's doing cabinet tops? MR. BALZANO: It's cabinet installation. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Fire away, guys. MR. BLUM: How many times did you take this test, business Page 35 .--,~.._--,~- July 20, 2005 and law? MR. KOMLOSY: Business and law, I took one time. MR. BLUM: Just one time. And you got a 71. And you need 75 for us. MR. KOMLOSY: Yeah, the only part I fail, project management. I failed that one two times -- three times. MR. BLUM: But you since passed that? MR. KOMLOSY: Yes. MR. BLUM: So the issue is part one business and finance. And you're off by 3.75 points for Collier; is that it? Am I getting this right? But you only tried it one time, and that's at the state level? MR. KOMLOSY: State level. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, but the other thing I'm seeing, too, is this guy's got everything done to get a residential contractor license. MR. BLUM: Yeah. MR. JOSLIN: He can still do tile and marble. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And he can he do all of that and a whole lot of others under a residential contractor license. MR. NEALE: He could be doing cabinetry on a state license with these scores. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. MR. BLUM: I just want it for clarification, that's all. MR. KOMLOSY: It's not cabinet installation, it's mostly like tiles is all. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I understand that. The tops of them. MR. KOMLOSY: Like shower walls, tiling as well. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Are we talking two licenses here? MR. KOMLOSY: Just one license. I don't know if this is the right licensing, the cabinet installer. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So you're doing cabinet tops. MR. BALZANO: Counter tops. Page 36 ----_-.,._*- July 20, 2005 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Counter tops, and -- MR. KOMLOSY: And tiling. So I don't know what license that falls under. MR. LEWIS: Like in shower walls and things of that sort -- MR. KOMLOSY: Yes. MR. LEWIS: Showers, bathrooms? MR. KOMLOSY: Yes. MR. BALZANO: It would be tile and marble. MR. LEWIS: Tile and marble. And he would have to get a cabinet installer's license for the counter tops, correct, for granite tops and things of that sort? MR. BALZANO: No, it's just tile and marble can install tile, marble and any other natural stone. It doesn't say where they can install it. MR. LEWIS: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So you really need tile and marble. MR. KOMLOSY: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And the only thing we're looking at is your business and law exam. MR. NEALE: Well, and the thing is tile and marble requires a tile and marble test. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Right. MR. BLUM: Well, has he taken it, or not? MR. NEALE: It doesn't appear such. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No. MR. NEALE: He's only applying for a license for -- MR. BALZANO: But he can do tile and marble with a residential contractor's license. MR. NEALE: Right. MR. BALZANO: Reality, he'd be better off getting a state license. He could work anywhere in the state without going through this. Page 37 --- July 20, 2005 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Why don't you get -- MR. KOMLOSY: It's a harder procedure to do. I have to -- it's a longer procedure. I have to have grade application and all that. MR. LEWIS : You're going to have to have that here, too. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You do that -- it requires that here. I mean, I have a state license. And if you've passed the test, you got 90 percent of the hard part out of the way. MR. KOMLOSY: Right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Why don't you just go get your residential contractor? You can do everything. And no one can stop you and you can go to every county in the state. MR. LEWIS: Do you understand that, John, or -- MR. KOMLOSY: Yeah, yes. I just want -- I just thought this would be an easier procedure to do it in Collier County. MR. LEWIS: No. MR. BLUM: Collier's the worst. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Only thing we're going to approve is this 71.25 of business and law and still require you to take the test for tile and marble. MR. NEALE: And fill out a -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So you'd be going back to testing agaIn. MR. NEALE: And fill out a full application. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And fill out the full application. MR. LEWIS: Which is -- correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Bartoe, the Collier County contractor application is almost tooth and tooth for the state license; is that not correct? I mean, same information, basically. MR. NEALE: It was mirrored on it. MR. LEWIS: That's right. Chapter 489. MR. KOMLOSY: Okay. I'll get the state license for residential contractor. Page 38 ^._.....,~._- - ~,."---------^.,.,~.., July 20, 2005 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And if you've got a shot at a state license, go get it. MR. LEWIS: And if you decide to build a house, can you do that, too. MR. KOMLOSY: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You can go to Lee, you can go anywhere you want. Noone can stop you. You've got a -- don't pass up this advantage. There's only like 15 to 20 percent of the people that pass these tests that take them for the state. MR. KOMLOSY: Okay. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Don't blow it. MR. KOMLOSY: All right. I'll do that then. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Go that route. Shall we deal with it at all, Mr. Neale, in amotion? MR. NEALE: I think he can just state that he's withdrawing the application and go from there. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So you're going to go file your application with the state? MR. KOMLOSY: That's correct. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. So you're withdrawing the application? MR. KOMLOSY: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I wish you very well. MR. KOMLOSY: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yves Legault? Reinstate a drywall license without a credit report for the previous company. I need to have both of you state your name and -- MS. LEGAULT: Good morning. I'm Elaine Legault, I'm Yves LeGault's wife. My husband had a severe -- (All speakers were duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And this is Yves Legault with you? Page 39 July 20, 2005 MS. LEGAULT: Yes. He had a stroke three years ago, which led him to be aphasic. Aphasic means that he cannot talk very much. He can understand so much what you're saying. He cannot read and write, just words. But his brain, his intelligence is there. It's like when you wake up Saturday in China -- because I always use this excuse and you said you were going to China -- and people only speak Chinese to you, you won't be able to understand what they're saying. You speak English, they won't be able to understand you. But doesn't mean you're stupid or your brain's not there. And for a lot of people, that's what they think aphasic is. And that's why I make this reference, because it's been a very big ordeal for three years going through this, just getting his driver's license. I was telling people, you know, it's not because you wake up in China and you can't speak Chinese that you can't drive. And that's why I'm here with him. He had his contractor's license, drywall. We started a home business in 1992 under Sam Drywall. About a couple years before he got the stroke, he took on a partner. The partner, three months after he had the major stroke, took him to a lawyer, made him sign his business over. Then he committed what we're suing for, fraud right now. The business is in litigation. We're going after the partner and the lawyer that did the contract. And I'm just trying to start a new company for him. Mainly just the mom and pop business, which is my son also, who is 18, to do metal framing and punch-out, that kind of work. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What was the name of the business originally? MS. LEGAULT: Sam Drywall. S-A-M Drywall. I tried to get a credit report, but of course being that the business is in litigation, the credit bureau didn't wanted to do it. The USA credit bureau that I require his personal credit from. Page 40 ~~-,..~.-..'-"~~--- July 20, 2005 And of course it's hard for me to just do that, because the partner will think that we're trying to play behind his back. And the thing being in litigation right now is really touchy. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Bill, have you heard of these people? Do you know them? MR. LEWIS: I've heard of Sam Drywall but never had any dealings with them. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. BLUM: Can I ask, Yves, were you the drywall contractor on the Pain Center some years ago? Pain Center of Naples, off Goodlette Road, 800 Goodlette Road? Weren't you the drywall guy there? MS. LEGAULT: I think he was. MR. BLUM: Because I worked with you on a pretty big project. If I remember, I think it was Gates McVey, but I could be wrong. MS. LEGAULT: Sam Drywall's been doing work for D'Angelis and Diamond, Gates -- MR. BLUM: D'Angelis, that's it. MS. LEGAULT: -- McVey's. Yeah, a lot of work, they do-- MR. BLUM: They built out that big thing upstairs there? MS. LEGAULT: I think they did the Pain Center. I was very involved with Sam Drywall until a couple of years ago when -- MR. BLUM: He was -- this gentleman was the guy for D'Angelis-Diamond forever; the only drywall guy they would use. His work was very well known and respected. MS. LEGAULT: It's still his. It's just the partner. MR. BLUM: You don't remember me? MR. LEGAULT: Oh, yeah, oh, yeah. MS. LEGAULT: Oh, bowling. MR. BLUM: That's right. I forgot. MS. LEGAULT: Bowling. See, that's what I'm saying, he can't express what he -- Page 41 July 20, 2005 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, see, where we can see this too is I'm looking at your personal credit report and except for one item, your personal credit report is impeccable. And that's Gulf Coast -- MS. LEGAULT: The collection? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. That's medical payments. MS. LEGAULT: Okay, we had two health insurance at the time that this bill occurred. I have asked -- these people would not cooperate as far as sending -- I've asked them -- I have like documentation like this big about these people did not want to cooperate. And the first company, the primary health insurance, refused to pay because they were the HMO and at that point they needed to send a request to my secondary insurance, which they never did. And it took them like over two years to do it. And now the second insurance says they passed that time. It's just been a big mess. And I said I don't understand when you pay $1,800 in health insurance why I should have to pay the bill, because they're not going to cooperate in sending the bills. That was __ actually, that's been four, five years ago. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I understand. We all go through those battles. MS. LEGAULT: It's not that I didn't want to pay them. I actually paid them the portion that we were required to pay. Our percentage, as far as the bill goes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: The rest of your credit report is flawless, which validates what you're telling me about the other company and the situation you're in. MS. LEGAULT: I was going to bring the complaint with me. And I guess I forgot to put it in here. But it's just been filed also like maybe a month ago now. So it's very fresh. And the partner is not reacting very well to this. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You've been around here a long time, haven't you? Page 42 .,.,._---~- July 20, 2005 MR. BLUM: Very long time. MR. JOSLIN: I've seen him. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because I've seen him, too. MS. LEGAULT: Him? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. MS. LEGAULT: Oh, yeah. He's been in construction for 40 years. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I've seen you on jobs many times. MS. LEGAULT: We do work for -- right now my son's working for Ace Stucco Drywall. I've worked in highrises with him. I was Frenchie's wife. Everyone knows -- I mean, I actually got on steel and did metal framing with him and drywall. So, you know, we've been around a long time. We've done a lot of highrises and work around here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So what you're wanting is for to us approve this -- MS. LEGAULT: Everything is completed -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- without requesting a credit report from the previous company. MS. LEGAULT: Right. Everything is completed. I also had a notarized letter saying to that effect why we can't get it. And everything else is -- she told me everything was a go. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any other questions? MR. JOSLIN: How many employees are you going to have under you? Any at all? MS. LEGAULT: No, no employees. It's probably just going to be a mom and pop thing. The fact that his license is going to expire in September if I don't do this. Because it's been two years since the partner canceled his -- I mean, put it on inactive status. I know for a fact that there's no way in the world he could get his license back doing the test, you know. And being aphasic, he can't. Page 43 -----.".-- July 20, 2005 So that's why I'm doing it now. And I started the new company so that we can keep his license going, even if it's just for the sake of my son, who's 18 and could not qualify for a license, because he doesn't have the experience required yet. But he works for, like I said, Ace Stucco Drywall, he does punch-out and metal framing. Sometimes he goes into work with him to do metal stud framing. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. JOSLIN: I'll make the motion that we approve the application. MR. BLUM: Second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. BESWICK: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (N 0 response.) MS. LEGAULT: Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: God bless you. We're glad to have you back. MS. LEGAULT: It's been a hard road. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Everybody up here knows you. MS. LEGAULT: Now I remember him, the bowling. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Hope you do well. MS. LEGAULT: Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: John Yoder? I assume that's you. If Page 44 __·"~~·c _..... -. «.....~.- July 20, 2005 you'll come forward. Jesse Sowanick was a no show. And we have sealed envelopes on you. Plumbing license. Tell us -- I need to have you sworn in first. MR. YODER: Yes, sir. John Yoder. Good morning. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Tell us what you're doing. MR. YODER: I am currently a master plumber in the State of Tennessee. I'm a master plumber in Virginia. I own a business in Nashville, Tennessee. I've bought a house here in Naples, and I'm trying to get my master license down here so I can start a small business, expand my business down here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you sing Rocky Top as much as all the other people do up there? MR. YODER: I'm not very good at singing. I could probably sing it, but you wouldn't like it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Tell us -- give us a description of what plumbing experience you have. MR. YODER: I have sewer and water, everything, sewage grinder pumps, water systems, water softeners, new installation, remodeling, repairs in all phases of plumbing. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thirty-six years? MR. YODER: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm looking at letters here from builders and inspectors up in your area; is that correct? MR. YODER: Yes, sir. I'm currently on the board of appeals in the City of Laverne for the contractors. Contractors board of appeals. I run a very reputable business up there. I'm very well known. I take a lot of pride in my work. I have my employees take pride in their work. I was brought up and raised in an Amish family, and that's the way I run my business. Page 45 July 20, 2005 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is Experior's test in Tennessee different than the one in Florida? MR. BALZANO: It's the same test we use. We use Experior. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's what I was wondering. But I've got two Experior tests in here. The plumbing is three points short. MR. BALZANO: It was one grade was a 73. He got a 76 and a 73 in the two parts. That's why I had him come-- MR. YODER: I took the business/law and all that up there, too. MR. BLUM: He did better in business/law than he did in the mechanical part. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. But of course notice these test scores are seven years ago, or six and a half. MR. NEALE: Pursuant to our ordinance, they really-- MR. BLUM: This says June -- MR. NEALE: Pursuant to our ordinance, they're not supposed to be considered. Any test score older than three years is not supposed to be considered under the Collier County ordinance. So you're having to do a testing waiver here, which is what he's really asking for anyhow. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But we can take that into consideration. MR. NEALE: Can be taken into consideration. But those test scores can't be used directly. You know, it's not as ifhe took it within the last three years. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. I don't know whose credit report this is, but it's hard to read. MR. NEALE: It's one of those that shows all three. You know, I've seen these, and they're -- MR. BLUM: Is there any actual scores? I missed the scores. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Credit reports basically do not show the scores. That's a separate item that you have to request. They usually get five bucks for that, don't they? Page 46 July 20, 2005 MR. JOSLIN: Pretty much on the bottom of the little readouts that they're giving, at the bottom it says, payment status, it says he's saying he's paying the accounts as agreed. Which doesn't give a score, but at least it tells us that he's paying the bills on time. MR. NEALE: One thing I may caution the board is because of some of the legislation passed on credit reports where they're having to -- going to have to start providing them at no charge to people and so forth, you're going to see a lot of different kinds of credit reports coming in front of you. And they're not going to be any easier to read. MR. BAR TOE: This was like one -- I just received my own. This part's free. If you want your Beacon score, you pay. MR. NEALE: Yes. Because by law, they have to give you the basic free. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That firm on TV that's advertising freecreditreport.com? It's not free. MR. NEALE: It's like a free time share vacation. MR. LEWIS: Is that in China? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Are you going to operate under Pappy's Plumbing? MR. YODER: I'm still trying to debate on that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because you're still good in Tennessee until '07, aren't you? MR. YODER: Yes, sir. My son is up there running it for me right now. MR. NEALE: And not to prejudice the board, but if I could point out that this application does have all of the parts in it that require it as far as affidavits of experience and other competency cards and -- all that's required by the ordinance are all in here, or appear to be. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: When did Tennessee go to testing and licensing? MR. YODER: It was prior to '92, because -- somewhere in that Page 47 July 20, 2005 area. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Did they grandfather everybody? MR. YODER: No, no. You have to -- you have to take your state test if you want to work within the entire state. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because I had a general contractor's license in Tennessee in 1984. I just wondered if it was still good. MR. YODER: I doubt it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But they gave them away then. I didn't have to take a single test. MR. YODER: Right. You do have to take the test. As a matter of fact, the State of Tennessee is requiring -- you know, there's a lot of country plumbers and hick plumbers up there that carry a hacksaw and glue and primer and they think they're a plumber. And the State of Tennessee, in the year of '07, you will have to be a licensed plumber. You will have to take a test. The only ones that will be grandfathered is I think you have to have like 25 years experience. That's the only ones they'll grandfather in. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. So they changed it completely. MR. YODER: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good. MR. YODER: Yes. That's the best thing that ever happened to them. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: A few more states need to do that. MR. YODER: Right. That's my one big complaint out in some of the counties out there. We're constantly having to go back behind other plumbers and repair work and do service work that is uncalled for. If it was installed properly, you wouldn't have the problem. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, like the gentleman today, if you've ever been in a state that doesn't have licensing and then you work in a state that does have licensing, you would never go back to the unlicensed state. Questions? Page 48 July 20, 2005 (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Motion? MR. LEWIS: Motion to approve the waiving of testing requirements. MR. BESWICK: Second, Beswick. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. BESWICK: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We like Tennessee people. MR. YODER: Thank you very much. I appreciate it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Hope you do well. Okay, so we're back to -- there is no old business. We're going back up to discussion. Mr. Bartoe, the floor is yours. MR. BARTOE: Well, I don't want to take up the entire floor. I just wanted to discuss, are we -- MR. NEALE: Is this open mic. night at the comedy club today or what? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We've had a good time today. MR. LEWIS: We've been gone for a while. MR. BARTOE: See, it pays to take a break. I think there are a few things in the ordinance that probably should be amended. I don't think we've done it since 2002. Mr. Neale may have some state changes that require changes to our ordinance also. And we should probably look into workshop in Page 49 July 20, 2005 the near future, or workshop along with a regular meeting. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Why are you doing this? MR. BARTOE: Why? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I've been through these workshops and these ordinance things. They are a nightmare. What specifically do we need to address? MR. BARTOE: Testing. The new testing approved that we're doing does not coincide with what you're required to do, according to the ordinance. MR. NEALE: Yeah. There's some cleanup things that need to be done in there. I think the other thing that we've seen over the last year or two is some new products and new techniques and things like that that have come up in the construction industry that probably need to be -- to have a home found in one of the trades or new specialties created. I think -- and Mr. Dickson, we've been through it together -- these processes can be pretty painful and extended, but I think it's important to get the input of the contracting community on board to hear from them on what changes they feel should be in there. So I would suggest than it's a good thing to do. It gives us an opportunity to look at the ordinance and clean it up, and whatever changes -- you know, Mr. Zachary and I can review 489 to see what if any changes are made, to make sure that we're in compliance. So I would suggest that it makes a lot of sense to do it and it's probably a good time to do it in the summertime when things are a little quieter. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Are you going to open it up to where anybody wants to change -- MR. NEALE: That's certainly the pleasure of the board. In the past when there were specific issues, the board did invite contractors from certain trades in. I don't know if Mr. Bartoe would suggest that. I think it would make sense to let the contracting community Page 50 July 20, 2005 know that there was a workshop being held, in case they have particular issues. MR. BARTOE: I would suggest that if we feel we have a specific change in a trade, but I don't see any at this time. MR. BALZANO: Tree trimming. MR. BARTOE: That's right. There's one, tree trimming. MR. BALZANO: We had a workshop with the Gainesville independent testing, and environmentalist from the county and several of the tree service companies to try and come up with a practical part of the exam. Because right now they just take a business and law, which was just a way to license them to have control. And we've come up with a test. So they will have to now take a practical and a business and law, just like everyone else. MR. NEALE: And I was recently involved in a case in Lee County, a case with tree trimmers and hat racking of trees and things like that. And I think with the county environmental staff, that's become a big issue, as far as proper trimming of trees and so forth. So that would be one worth having people talk about it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes. I just remember the guy that got -- he couldn't have a sign above his building, so he trimmed his trees, but he cut them off at the stub and that was a trim. And the sign showed after that. And he called it a tree trim. Can we do this: Can you come up with the areas that you're aware of that we need to address, and then we can go to the homebuilders association and the subcontractors association and ask them if there's any categories they feel need to be addressed and then define our areas? And then we'd have a workshop? Because this-- you say summer's a good time to do it. This is a three to four-month process, at least. MR. NEALE: Yeah, that's what it's taken in the past is several months. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because then we go through all the Page 51 ".---.--- July 20, 2005 proofings of the changes, and then we send it up to the commissioners for their approval. And it usually takes two or three workshops. MR. BAR TOE: I've seen amendments, start to finish, probably take nine, 10 months. MR. NEALE: And by the time county commission passes them MR. BALZANO: The last one did. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let's define them and put that on the agenda for next month to see those defined areas. And then we'll put that news area out to the trades and see if they need to bring something up. I know storm shutters is an area. Because now we got guys doing the canvas, and some guys doing the film. And that's not addressed in the hurricane shutter portion. MR. BALZANO: We just finished up with the grandfathering that we did, the people that missed out on that when we rewrote the ordinance, I think in 2002. Then we had to send out the letters to the aluminum contractors about hurricane shutters. That was up the 15th. So at the next meeting we'll bring in all the contractors that signed up for that hurricane shutter license to get your blessings, like you did on the first batch, and that will be completed. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, I agree we need to do it. MR. JOSLIN: You just don't want to. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's really cumbersome and it takes a lot of time. You guys are not going to enjoy it. Especially the workshops. We had to do it before because we had guys that had a license to do fountains and then they did a 500,000 gallon fountain at Waterside shopping center and called it a fountain. So there's always something that comes up. MR. BESWICK: Something about faux finishes too, if I remember. Page 52 July 20, 2005 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, faux finishes. Now we have them doing Venetian marble. They put it on both sides of the wall and the inside of the wall turns black and no one can figure out why. MR. NEALE: The other area that -- I don't know whether we want to address, but there's a significant number of mold removal or mold control contractors that are flogging around. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And the state's also now licensing home inspectors. MR. NEALE: Yeah. So those are all things that probably are worth talking about. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Isn't that right? MR. BALZANO: I believe so. I think we should. There's some wackos out there. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I can give you a couple. Next is this natural citizen. Where is -- I've got to find that letter. Here he is. MR. BLUM: How come this gentleman isn't here? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, because we're going to take an action on him. He wrote a letter to Mr. Valsano (sic), a/kla Balzano. And he's a natural citizen and he lives in a Right to Work state and basically believes that he can work without a license and work with cash and for us to do anything contrary to that is depriving his personal rights, as secured by the Constitution. He's also threatened an inspector; accused the county basically of extorting money and property from unsuspecting citizens. There is a citation in here that was delivered. He won't respond to the citation. In fact, he mailed it back to the county. And so you want to tell Mr. Zachary the details so that we can make a -- MR. BALZANO: I'd like to have Mr. Kennette. He's the one that confronted the gentleman. He knows -- Page 53 July 20, 2005 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We need the county to take action an on this, Mr. Zachary. (Speaker was duly sworn.) MR. KENNETTE: Allen Kennette. This is about Larry Richard Bradshaw. I received a call that he was out on a residence at 6030 Standing Oaks Lane doing some unlicensed work. That an AC inspector had gone out there to inspect the AC for the failure the first time. He was confronted by Mr. Bradshaw. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What work was he doing? MR. KENNETTE: Mr. Bradshaw? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes. MR. KENNETTE: He installed floors and was doing cabinetry work out there at that residence for Mr. Wayne Bowman. And he was told to get off the property, that he was in charge, that we had no business out there to the AC inspector. And the owner came out and confronted Mr. Bradshaw and said he would handle it, that he was here for a second inspection. When I arrived out there, he was getting some more tools out of his truck to finish installing cabinets. I talked to the homeowner and advised him that Mr. Bradshaw did not have a license to work in Collier County, that the only license he had was a painting contractor's license that was canceled and a drywall contractor license that was also canceled by Mr. Bradshaw, because he said he didn't need it, he was a natural citizen and he would work for cash. And he did not need a county license and this was approved by the board members of the county commissioners, that he had talked to them and he was advised that he did not need a license anymore to do that type of work. I explained to him that he did need his license to do that. The homeowner wasn't aware of that; he thought he was licensed. He did Page 54 July 20, 2005 tell him that he was all done working for him. I explained to him that people working for him had to be licensed and he said that he wasn't aware of it and that he was the only person there doing the work that wasn't licensed. Everybody else was licensed. He was adding on a second guest house that has a permit for the structure that he was installing for his mother-in-law. Mr. Bradshaw was very offensive, boning up to me. And he didn't want to sign anything, didn't want to give identification. I did coerce him into giving me his driver ID before the Sheriff had to be called, which he did do. He did sign the citation, but said he would not honor it and that he would refuse it and that we could do what we wanted to do. And I explained to him what he could do. I showed him on the back of the citation how he could appeal it in front of the licensing board and what he needed to -- the steps he needed to take. And he just said he didn't have to do anything, he was a free citizen, that we couldn't do anything to him and he would work, no matter what we said. But the homeowner did tell him to pack up, which he was packing when I was there, and he did leave the premise (sic) before I left. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Did you at any time feel that Mr. Bradshaw was a physical threat to you or the community? MR. KENNETTE: At first he was. He came up real strong when I was talking to the homeowner, asking me what I was doing there and I had no business there either. And that, you know, just because you're a government official doesn't mean you're anything, to get off the property. And the homeowner said that -- you know, calm down, calm down and back off. But he was -- I had watched him the whole time. I didn't let him out of my sight. Because he kept moving around on Page 55 July 20, 2005 me. But I wasn't -- you know, I didn't feel that threatened by him. He didn't have anything in his hands or anything. Just his actions were kind of intimidating if you weren't aware of him. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Was the Sheriffs Department called? MR. KENNETTE: No, I didn't have to. He volunteered his driver's license, he did sign the citation, and I gave him back his paperwork and I just left the premise. I waited out front, and he did drive out with his van and his trailer with his sign on the side, "Will work for cash, natural citizen, freedom" and all that other writing he had on the signs. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: How long does he have to take care of the citation? MR. KENNETTE: The citation was issued -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: 6-30-- MR. KENNETTE: -- on the 30th. And he had 10 days, which I wrote on the back 10 days to honor the citation or to take it to the licensing board. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And what's the next step? MR. BAR TOE: I'd say if you read the instruction part of the citation, it's pretty much self-explanatory under request for hearing. If you do not request a hearing, or pay the penalty fee, as prescribed, which is the 10 days, the citation shall automatically become a final order of the Contractor's Licensing Board ordering the violator to pay the civil penalty set forth on the citation without a hearing and a certified copy of such order shall be recorded in public records and thereafter shall constitute a lien against most real or personal property owned by the violator. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Neale? MR. NEALE: Well, pursuant to the statute, the board -- the way the statute reads is the enforcement for a licensing board or the designated special master shall enter an order ordering the violator to Page 56 July 20, 2005 pay the civil penalties set forth on the citation or notice of violation, and a hearing shall not be necessary for the issuance of such order. A certified copy of that order may be recorded in the public records and thereafter constitute a lien against any real or personal property owned by the violator. Upon petition to the circuit court, such order may be enforced in the same manner as a court judgment by the sheriffs of the state, including a levy against personal property. However, such order shall not be deemed to be a court judgment, except for enforcement purposes. A civil penalty imposed pursuant to this part shall continue to accrue until the violator comes into compliance or until judgment is rendered and suit to foreclose on a lien filed pursuant to this subsection, whichever occurs first. After three months from the filing of any such lien which remains unpaid, the enforcement board or licensed special master may authorize the local governing bodies to foreclose on the lien. No lien created pursuant to the provisions of this part may be foreclosed on real property which is a homestead. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And Mr. Zachary, is this something your office would have to file? MR. ZACHARY: That's exactly right. Our office would have to file. And I'm not sure we would foreclose on a $300 ticket. But if he continues to operate without a license, I imagine that these folks will continue to cite it. Ever increasing fines. And then when it gets to a point, our office would look into foreclosing on those liens that have been recorded. MR. BLUM: Do we know that this guy's got property in his own name? Does he have property in his own name, we know that? MR. BALZANO: Yes, he does. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Why would the county not foreclose on a $300? Page 57 July 20, 2005 MR. NEALE: Cost you more than that to foreclose it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So we just let him go? MR. NEALE: No, you'd have a lien on his property. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, you would do the lien; is that what you're saying, Mr. Zachary? MR. ZACHARY: Correct. Well, this automatically becomes-- without a hearing, as I understand what Mr. Neale just read, this judgment of -- because of this ticket unpaid, he's not contested it becomes a judgment, becomes recorded and it constitutes a lien against the personal property. MR. NEALE: So what we need the board to do is enter an order requiring the violator to pay the civil penalty set forth on the citation. So the board needs to enter. Such order needs to make a motion on such order and enter it. And they're required to. This is not a discretionary matter. And then that order will be issued by the board and then a certified copy of that order is recorded in the public records, and it then becomes a lien. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Somebody want to do that motion? MR. BLUM: Sure do. MR. JOSLIN: Yeah. MR. BLUM: Absolutely, I want to make that motion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Do we need to be more specific on the citation number and -- MR. NEALE: Um-hum, please. MR. BLUM: Okay. In the matter of Richard Bradshaw, Citation No. 2634, I make the motion that all appropriate orders be rendered per code and jurisdiction. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Adequate? MR. JOSLIN: Joslin, second it. Is that enough? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Adequate, Mr. Neale? Page 58 July 20, 2005 MR. NEALE: If you could please include the citation number. MR. BLUM: I did. No. 2634. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. BESWICK: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Done. Meeting location. MR. BALZANO: Do you feel that that order will be enough to notify him in writing where he doesn't want to communicate with me anymore? MR. NEALE: Well, he'll be given a copy of the order. MR. BALZANO: Okay. MR. JOSLIN: Now, my last question is through this whole process, again, you said we're going to spend a lot of money to try to enforce it or to try to collect this $300 or, bottom line, stop this gentleman from working. Obviously it's not going to. He's going to be back on the road doing something else. MR. BLUM: He's on the road as we speak. MR. JOSLIN: Is this something that we need to address somehow that can be done in another ordinance change of some sort that permanently stops someone from doing something when they write letters like this to us and basically tell us they're not going to do whatever we say? Is there no way that we can stop this? MR. NEALE: I really -- I'd have to do some research on it. I don't know what we can do. Page 59 July 20, 2005 You know, unless he's violating the law in such a fashion that he can be charged criminally. MR. JOSLIN: Right. MR. BLUM: But my point when I asked if he owned any property in his own name, just for argument sake, you get a person like this who has nothing in his own name, he can do this forever with no consequences, theoretically. MR. BALZANO: No. MR. BLUM: How do you stop him? MR. BALZANO: Under Florida law, I think after -- maybe Mr. Neale knows better, but I think under 489, after so many offenses doesn't it become a felony? It's a criminal -- it's considered criminal under 489? MR. BLUM: How many times has he been at this, and we've only caught him once? I'm amazed. MR. BARTOE: He used to be licensed. MR. BALZANO: He had three licenses. MR. BLUM: So he must have had a mind-changing -- MR. BALZANO: Last license was canceled in 2001 and two others were canceled in '95. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And he canceled both of them, right? He canceled them. MR. BALZANO: (Shakes head positively.) MR. BLUM: So he's been for years and years and years now, he's been doing this with no consequences. We just happened to get lucky and catch him because an inspector was out and saw him. MR. NEALE: This issue is he's now committed a misdemeanor. It only becomes a felony after he has previously been found guilty of a violation. So I don't know if this would constitute being found guilty of a violation. I doubt it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, you guys know where he is, you know what he drives. And if you become anything like Mike, I have Page 60 July 20, 2005 no doubt you know where he is. Meetings. Parking is the only issue then, right? MR. BARTOE: More for staff than you people. There seems to be ample space out there. But it's summertime. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It was a delight-- MR. JOSLIN: Who was it that set up the new plan for you gentleman to have to park in different places? MR. NEALE: The reporter just brought up an interesting point, though. These meetings are supposed to be televised, so we would have to get somehow television set up wherever we go. MR. BAR TOE: Is that necessary? MR. BLUM: Public's right to know. MR. BALZANO: We were just thinking when season comes how difficult it is when there was parking to find a parking spot. What's it going to be like this year without any parking spaces? The parking garage that we have to go in is almost full now with county employees. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But the recording is a major issue. MR. BARTOE: Is it an issue for you? THE COURT REPORTER: Not for the court reporter, no. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You're across the street, aren't you? MR. BALZANO: We can see what -- as we go along, ifit becomes a problem, we can use the new conference room where we are. We have plenty of parking. MR. JOSLIN: Do you have special places that-- THE COURT REPORTER: We have parking in our parking lot across the street. MR. LEWIS: Would it be advisable for staff to check it out with the proper authorities to find out what would be involved to move the location as far as televising and so forth? MR. BAR TOE: Well, we have not checked into televising it out of our building. Page 61 July 20, 2005 MR. LEWIS: Maybe we should check and see, number one, if it's a priority -- or excuse me, requirement of the ordinance or laws. If it is, then what it would take to do that. Just in case it becomes a problem. MR. BARTOE: I think for now we can plan on meeting here. And if, you know, things start getting worse during season, we may have to look into something else. And we can check on what Mr. Lewis suggested. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. We'll put it on hold for now. Going through your packet, guys, this group here for Jesse Sowanick, if you would hang on to that. Because he didn't show today. I'm sure we'll see him again. That will save -- you can imagine how much time those ladies spend putting these packets together. So they don't have to do that one again. So we'll hang on to those so she doesn't have to do it again. Any other discussions or new business? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Then can we have a motion or a show? MR. JOSLIN: Motion to adjourn. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I hear a second? MR. BESWICK: Second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. BESWICK: Aye. MR. LEWIS: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. BOYD: Aye. MR. HORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We're done. Page 62 July 20, 2005 ****** There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 10:45 a.m. COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTOR LICENSING BOARD LES DICKSON, CHAIRMAN Transcript prepared on behalf of Gregory Court Reporting Service, Inc., by Cherie' R. Nottingham. Page 63