BCC Minutes 06/16/2005 B (Budget Workshop)
June 16, 2005
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BUDGET WORKSHOP
Naples, Florida, June 16, 2005
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as the
Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing Board( s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m. in BUDGET
SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples,
Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Fred Coyle
Jim Coletta
Donna Fiala
Tom Henning
Frank Halas
ALSO PRESENT:
Jim Mudd, County Manager
Leo Ochs, Deputy County Manager
David Weigel, County Attorney
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NOTICE OF PUBLIC MEETING
. .
Notice is hereby given that the Board of County Commissioners of Collier
County will conduct Budget Workshops on Wednesday, June 15,2005,
Thursday, June 16, 2005 and Friday, June 17, 2005 at 9:00 a.m. Workshops
will be held in the Boardroom, 3rd Floor, W. Hannon Turner Building,
Collier County Government Center, 3301 East Tamiami Trail, Naples,
Florida to hear the following:
COLLIER COUNTY GOVERNMENT
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
FY 2006 BUDGET WORKSHOP SCHEDULE
Wednesday, June IS, 20Q5 - 9:00 a.m.
General Overview
Courts and Related Agencies (State Attorney and Public Defender)
Administrative Services
Public Services
Transportation Services
Community Development
Public Utilities
Debt Service
Management Offices (pelican Bay)
County Attorney
BCC
Airport Authority
Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 9:00 a.m.
Constitutional Officers:
Property Appraiser
Elections
Clerk of Courts
Sheriff
Friday, June 17,2005 - 9:00 a.m.
Wrap-up (if required)
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June 16, 2005
MR. MUDD: Ladies and gentlemen, please take your seats.
Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, you have a hot mic.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, the Board of
County Commissioners Budget Review Session is now in session.
Would you please rise for the Pledge of Allegiance.
(Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, Mr. Mudd?
OVERVIEW OF CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICER'S AGENDA
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, Mr. Chairman, the agenda is up on
the visualizer. And we'll start today -- this morning is basically
Constitutional Officers. We'll do the Property Appraiser, Supervisor
of Elections, Clerk of Courts and the Sheriff s Office.
And just as a reminder, the Tax Collector's budget doesn't come
in until 1 August. And then at 1 :00 today, we'll do budget wrap-up.
The first constitutional officer today is the Property Appraiser.
And I believe Mr. Smykowski will present that budget.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Good.
PROPERTY APPRAISER
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Good morning, Commissioners. For the
record, Michael Smykowski.
There's a constitutional officer tab in your budget binders. And if
you turn to Page K-4, the Property Appraiser's budget is delineated
therein.
Overall his increase is a net of 3.8 percent. He has no expanded
services. Retaining the existing workforce of 57 people. He has
budgeted for some replacement data processing equipment. And his
increase in operating expenses is associated with a GIS system with
aerial photographs to update the website system and the points
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June 16, 2005
geographically for the maps, just to update those on an annual basis.
So very plain vanilla, I guess, and certainly within the guidance
that you provided to him. His budget ultimately is approved by the
State of Florida, but it is also shown to the Board for their review and
consideration.
MR. MUDD: And on 1 July, his particular office, we do get the
final assessed values. We've got a preliminary as of 1 June. 1 July we
get the final appraised value. It's normally a little bit higher than the
draft.
Now, last year was an anomaly, it was a little bit lower. So, you
know, I guess we're 50/50. We could be one way or the other. But we
suspect it will be just a little higher than it was on 1 June.
That's all we have for the Property Appraiser.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any questions, Commissioners?
Is Commissioner Halas afraid to sit closer to us, or what's happened
there --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: My computer doesn't work, and
I've been trying to get IT to fix it for two days now.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Have we considered the IT budget yet?
MR. MUDD: Sir, when Commissioner Halas breaks his
computer, he really breaks it.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Well, we'll revisit the IT computer
because Sue Filson is having trouble with hers and I'm having trouble
with mine, so --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And so am I. I get the darkness on
the top.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: We're going to review that budget again.
SUPERVISOR OF ELECTIONS
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, since there's no question, that will
bring us to the next constitutional officer, and that's the Supervisor of
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Elections.
And I believe Ms. Jennifer Edwards is here with her staff.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Good morning, Jennifer, how are you
today?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Good morning, Pat.
MS. EDWARDS: For the record, Jennifer Edwards, Supervisor
of Elections.
And I have with me Pat Pochopin, who is the assistant Supervisor
of Elections and the person who prepares our budget and monitors our
budget for us throughout the year.
And if you would turn to Page K-5, you will see that I have
brought -- Pat and I have brought our budget in under the cap that was
set.
The significant requests in our budget are three new positions,
and those are identified in our administration budget on Page K-7.
We're requesting a Customer Service Representative position, and we
will phase that in in the second half of the fiscal year. And that is for
the new Government Center on Orange Blossom.
We're really looking forward to that, because in '08 we'll be able
to use that for early voting. So that's going to be very helpful for the
North Naples community.
And this next position is Assistant Absentee Coordinator. We
have had a huge increase in our absentee ballot requests. And as you
can see here, we had a 64 percent increase between the '02 elections
and the '04 elections. We need someone to help in that area. We
currently have three people, and we're adding this person. That area is
also responsible for early voting.
And then the next position is Assistant Training Officer. And the
law requires us to train all of our poll workers, which is approximately
1,000, within 30 days of each election. And we currently have one
Training Officer, and so I'm asking for a second Training Officer.
And we will phase that position in also next summer as it gets closer
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June 16, 2005
to the elections.
Those are the significant changes in our budget. If you have any
questions?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Halas has a question.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: The only thing I want to do is kind
of reinforce the Supervisor of Elections. Being on the canvassing
Board the past year, I was very much surprised at the amount of
absentee ballots that were coming in. And obviously we had to go
through each and every one of them. And it was quite a task. And I
think they need a lot of assistance in that area.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Jennifer, as we get more and more
participation in the early voting process, is that expected to reduce the
work load or staffing requirements for the regularly scheduled voting
period?
MS. EDW ARDS: It will depend on -- on how the legislature
makes changes in the law. With early voting beginning 15 days
before the election, that indeed has reduced the number that vote on
election day. We had over 55 percent of our voters that voted in the
general election voted before election day. So that indeed reduced the
activity on election day.
However, the law still requires us to have precincts and to have
those precincts fully staffed with Inspectors, Clerks, Sheriffs or
Deputies. And we can't change that until the legislature changes the
law.
What we are asking for -- and this is a trend across the Country,
and we've asked the legislature last session, and we'll move forward
with our request -- for what are called voting centers. And what that
means is we would eliminate the requirement in the law for a polling
site in every precinct. We have 93 precincts right now. We would be
able to combine polling sites and have perhaps 30 or 40 instead of93.
And indeed, that will reduce the number of employees that we'll need.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: But that will require legislative action.
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June 16, 2005
MS. EDWARDS: Yes, it will. And I would ask for your-all
support in that. We have other issues with early voting too that we're
going to be lobbying for prior to the '06 elections.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And that will require federal action or
State action or both?
MS. EDWARDS: State.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: State action. Thank you very much,
Jennifer -- oh, I'm sorry, Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: With the 55 percent, does that
include the absentees?
MS. EDW ARDS: Yes, it does. Absentees and early voting.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: What do you attribute the continual
climb in absentee voting, to what?
MS. EDW ARDS: To begin with, changing the law. And that
was part of the 2001 Election Reform Act, in that the legislature took
away any limitations on requesting an absentee ballot.
Prior to that, you had to have a reason. You had to be sick or you
were going to be out of the County. But the law changed to what we
say no excuse voting. Anybody that wants an absentee ballot, and we
encourage that, can call our office and request one without any reason.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any other questions?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Good, thank you very much, Jennifer.
MS. EDW ARDS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thankyou for adhering to the budget
guidelines.
MR. MUDD: Before Jennifer leaves, and she did, she did a great
job with her budget. She also has a space issue, okay, and we're
taking care of that.
Jennifer's ultimate space allocation that she needs when, we'll
call it build-out, is around 300 -- excuse me, and is 30,000 square feet.
She's at around 10,000 square feet. And these three expanded
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June 16, 2005
positions, we're having to find space for them. And we believe we
have a tenable agreement where we're going to put them.
But I'm just telling you, not only does the Sate Attorney have
issues, we're -- you know, with the court expansion on the annex
building and some other things, there are some dynamics going on
with not having the master plan being executed way back when. So
everybody's having to tighten up a little bit.
And it's kind of interesting. Sometimes it can be frustrating, too,
for our customers from facilities, as all the Constitutionals are, and for
the departments and the State Attorney and whatnot. So we are trying
to make all that work, but right now it's kind of a tenuous situation for
us, because it's like a series of dominoes, you move one, and you put
one in, and you're moving folks around.
So space for those three people are the space at the Golden Gate
Park, okay, that when people move to the North County Regional
Park, that will free up, and then we're backfilling into that particular
place. So they leave by May just in time to move her people in so she
can start her training that she talked about.
So it is kind of a dicey game right now that we're playing with
space, but we're trying to make it work as we build those buildings
and build those garages that we need in order to build them on campus
and elsewhere in the County.
And I do have an eye on two buildings that would pretty much
get the Supervisor of Elections to her ultimate goal, but it's off campus
-- it's on South Horseshoe -- that are going to come up for sale in
2007. And we'll be talking to the Board about that particular
procurement here next year at this time.
MS. EDW ARDS: That's heartening. That's good news. Thank
you.
And I'd like to compliment the County Manager and his staff.
We've worked well together in looking for space. We're going to
move our training of our poll workers, that whole operation, out to the
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June 16, 2005
park next summer, and that will allow more space for our absentee
department because of the increase in absentees within our office.
It's important for us to keep the absentees where we are. I'm
always very concerned about the chain of custody of our absentee
ballots. And I want them where I am.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Does it serve any purpose for you to
have satellite offices co-located with some of our other Constitutional
Officers and thereby deal with some of these space requirements, or
do you really prefer to keep everything pretty well centralized?
MS. EDWARDS: It works better, and this is true in other
counties, too, the experience is that if we can be self-contained, we
have a more efficient operation.
(Commissioner Henning enters the Boardroom.)
MS. EDW ARDS: We're also looking at equipment to improve
the mailing and receiving of absentee ballots to move away from the
manual folding and inserting. We're looking at equipment to take care
of that. And so that's another space issue.
But having everything in one space works much better. We're
looking forward, as I said; to the new space we're going to have
available at Orange Blossom. That will provide a good service.
But keep in mind that the Tax Collector is also required to offer
registration to everyone that comes in to obtain a Florida driver's
license or make a change to their record. So he provides that service
already for us. And any time we need to provide information to the
Clerk or to any of the Constitutional Officers that have satellite offices
and the Tax Collector, they work with us. We have a great
relationship and work well together.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Good. That's good. Thank you very
much. I don't think there are any other questions.
MS. EDW ARDS: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Good seeing you.
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June 16, 2005
CLERK OF COURTS
MR. MUDD: The next agenda item is the Clerk of Courts
budget.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Good morning.
MS. KINZEL: Derek wants to move up there.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I don't blame him.
MS. KINZEL: Good morning, Commissioners, Crystal Kinzel,
Finance Director for the Clerk's office. I have with me today Jay Cross
for Administration, Ray Milum, who's a manager with the Clerk's
office, and Derek Johnssen. And we're here to answer any questions.
I think that you'll find that the Clerk's Board is in compliance
with the overall budgetary guidance that the Board set forward in
policy, so we're here just to answer your questions.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Anybody have any questions?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I don't have any questions.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: No questions?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It is in compliance with budget
guidelines, as far as I can determine.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Can't argue with success.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: We talked last time about an analysis of
how Revision 7, Article 5 really impacted the County and the cost
allocated to the County. Is it too early yet to prepare such a detailed
analysis?
MS. KINZEL: I think so, Commissioner. We are working on
the first budget that's going to go to the State in August. We'll have a
better handle after that August presentation. We'll be glad to come
back to you with some summary and information, but we're still
working through the first complete year and allocating costs.
And the State, quite frankly, has set some different reporting
guidelines and performance measures, and we're working through all
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of that detail, and hopefully we'll have a handle on it by the end of this
summer.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, good, that would be helpful.
Thank you very much.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, I think it's important to know that,
because through the Clerk of Courts operation prior to Article 5, I
mean, we were one of the only counties that were breaking even and
actually bringing money into the general fund, okay, to pay for the
entire court system.
And I believe at this juncture, based on fees -- and I can't speak
for the Clerk's side of it, but from the County Manager's side of it and
from the Board's side -- you are giving ad valorem dollars to the court
system. And you had the courts yesterday, okay, and you saw some
$370,000 going to them to offset some of their costs.
So it is an outlay now instead of coming in -- instead of being a
plus. So we're a little bit into the deficit. And every year we're trying
to find innovative ways to break that particular operation so it breaks
even. And we're getting better at it. But last year it cost more than
374; it was close to 800,000.
So they are getting better but we're not there yet, even from the
manager's agency, trying to garner, you know, what all the different
fees were, make sure that they're collected, they come in, making sure
that they're accounted for correctly and the right fund types.
And there are some discretions in the law that basically say -- for
instance, in teen court it says you have to use your reserve first before
you can use the outlay for a given year. So we're drawing those
reserves down in that particular fund. So that $130,000 or so is
coming back in to offset some of the other costs on the court's side of
the house.
So I really don't believe when this thing starts to level out that
our costs from the ad valorem are going to be 370. I think it's going to
be higher than that. I think it's going to be closer to 600,000 a year
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June 16, 2005
going to the court side so -- as far as a negative impact as far as the
laws concerned, for the manager's agency. But we're monitoring that,
and we've got focus on it, on just a couple of lines in the budget to get
--
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah, it's my recollection when I
reviewed this budget that there are positive impacts anticipated
because of increased fee structures for some fees and services, but the
overall budget is expected to increase in the future I think, what, 7.68
percent or something like that.
So it's going to be interesting to see how the fee structure offsets
that increase and to what extent, you know, we might be able to
mutually pursue any other fee structure changes that might help solve
that problem.
But until we get that information, it's going to be very difficult
for any of us to make a decision as to what action we ought to take.
MS. KINZEL: And Commissioner, we'll continue to know work
with the manager's office with those types of allocations.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, good. Thank you very much.
MS. KINZEL: Thank you.
SHERIFF'S OFFICE
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, and the last agenda item for this
morning is the Sheriff s Office Budget Presentation.
MR. SMITH: Good morning, Commissioners. For the record,
Greg Smith, Chief of Administration for the Sheriff s Office.
And I'd like to take a moment to introduce my staff. To my right
is Captain Chris Freeman with the Corrections Division; Carol
Golightly, Finance Director; Jean Myers and Michelle Diaz, also from
Finance.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Good morning.
MR. SMITH: You have the Sheriffs Budget. And first let me
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point out that most of the increases in our budget this year owe to
personal services cost of bringing on additional staff in three different
areas.
One of course is the corrections component for the opening of the
new jail wing.
We also have positions coming off grants which require matched
funding, and the Orangetree substation positions. So that's the basis of
the increase.
Let me also say that it reflects that we're $917,000 out of budget
guidance relative to our proportionate share. A great deal of that,
$600,000 owes itself to very late in the process us being informed that
liability insurance had increased by that amount, which is a cost paid
by the Board but reflected in our budget. So we're trying to get our
arms around that.
But I can tell you that we're going to work very hard through the
summer, and we fully anticipate that we will be under the published
proportionate share at the conclusion of the budget process this year.
So with that, we'll stand for questions.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'm presuming we're going by
the submittal of the June 11 th budget and not the May 2nd budget?
MR. SMITH: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. So let me go through that
then.
The homeland security department, I guess it is, homeland
security, or is it domestic security? Is it both?
MR. SMITH: Domestic security.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is it both? Is homeland security
and domestic considered one?
MR. SMITH: Yes, that's correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The -- how many do you have
allocated to that?
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June 16, 2005
MR. SMITH: I'm not sure. What's the detail on that?
MS. GOLIGHTLY: I think there are three.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: How many are allocated to the
SWAT team?
MS. MYERS: Eleven.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Eleven?
The calls for the SW A T team last year, how many calls for service did
they have?
MS. MYERS: We'll look that up for you. As in calls for service
versus call-outs?
MR. SMITH: Call-outs.
MS. MYERS: Because a lot of times that is a support group. So
times that -- you know, they are that back-up support group. So we
have things like search warrants. In 2004, 39 call-outs. They had 11
backups or like 544 arrests. Assists, 102. So they have various
activities like that, that are captured statistically.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I think you have 11 members in
the gang unit? No, I'm sorry, it's eight, right?
MS. MYERS: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: How many public assistants did
they offer to the citizenry? I mean, what I know about gang units, it's
not very much, so it's -- I'm just trying to understand. What I
understand a gang unit is, is they attack each other, you know. I
mean, it's a rival gang type thing and there's rivalry between the
gangs. Is that correct?
MR. SMITH: Yeah. We're fortunate that Captain Freeman used
to be in charge of the gang unit, so he could probably respond to those
questions for you.
CAPTAIN FREEMAN: Good morning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Good morning.
CAPTAIN FREEMAN: Yeah, street gang members typically
terrorize the public within our community. One of their largest goals
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June 16, 2005
is to dominate other gangs. So yes, we do have gang-on-gang
violence. That's not as prominent as it is gang on citizen or gang on
fellow students or others. That's where they prey, because that's
where they're most successful.
They get a lot of resistance when they are fighting amongst other
street gangs.
So proportionately, our largest problem in the past, and again,
I've been removed for a few years, but I've kept my fingers in the pie
there, it is gang on fellow students or -- students and the public.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Now, you have different
shift workers, administration jail and others. Who are the ones that do
the five-eighths, the four-tenths?
MR. SMITH: Predominantly the road patrol units are on four-ten
shift scheduling.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: On the four-ten's, what are their
days off?
MR. SMITH: The published days off are either Friday, Saturday
and Sunday, or Sunday --
CAPTAIN FREEMAN: Thursday, Friday, Saturday.
MR. SMITH: Excuse me, Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Or
Sunday, Monday, Tuesday.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Thursday, Friday,
Saturday or Sunday, Monday, Tuesday.
MR. SMITH: Right. But that's not often the case, because what
we do is we utilize a lot of creative scheduling and power shifts and
that sort of thing. So it's not very often that that is a stable enough
assumption to say that they're off every one of those three days, so we
do do a lot of --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: But never on Wednesday?
MR. SMITH: Wednesday actually is what we use to use a lot of
directed patrols on Wednesday, because that's an overlap day. We
utilize that day to provide a lot of our training. So Wednesday is our
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June 16, 2005
day that we also try to balance off hours. If someone is carrying
excess hours, we try to balance that on Wednesday so we lower the
overtime utilization.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And what are directive patrols?
MR. SMITH: We maintain statistics on just exactly where --
what areas crime is prevalent in. And we will direct concerted efforts
on days where we have additional staffing to go in there and
discourage criminal activity.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And that's Wednesdays when
that activity takes place?
MR. SMITH: Not just Wednesday, but what we use is the fact
that we've got those two components overlapping on a Wednesday to
provide us with the additional hours to allow us to do that directive
patrol, so -- it's a lot of flex time. Like if we direct patrol on a
weekend, what we'll do is on that Wednesday we'll pare down the
shifts so that we don't incur overtime.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The officers, patrol officers in
training, what is that, every other week they train? A deputy, Deputy
Smith.
MR. SMITH: Right now we have a -- every two years they're
offline for a week while they go through what we call in-service
training. There is also additional trainings that are from time to time --
such as we just had a training session on human diversity and
community interaction. We'll have directed training on
community-oriented policing. We have annual qualification with our
firearms, so there from time to time we also have additional trainers
thrown in.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: How many -- on your four-ten
shifts, how many shifts are there?
MR. SMITH: There are three.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Three shifts? So that's 30 hours
you have overlapping of -- what time do they -- what's the start times?
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June 16, 2005
CAPTAIN FREEMAN: I believe 0600 would be day shift,
typically.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Six a.m.?
CAPTAIN FREEMAN: Some shifts, some districts -- 06,6:00
a.m, excuse me. 6:00 a.m. would typically be day shift. However,
they do vary, and some districts will start earlier or later. The
afternoon shift typically comes in about 3:00 in the afternoon. Now,
it's typically. Some districts come in at 4:00 in the afternoon and they
work 10.75 hours, because they work a 43-hour workweek.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
CAPTAIN FREEMAN: Ten hours, 45 minutes.
The midnight shift typically comes in about 8:00 at night. The
majority of the overlap is between 8:00 at night and 3:00 in the
morning. Now, that's typical. Some districts start a little earlier than
midnight, some start -- actually most of them start by 8:00. But some
districts will start at 7:00 at night, so your overlap, which is when the
high volume increased violent activity is, is between 7:00 at night and
3 :00 in the morning. So that's when the overlap is.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is that true for all the
substations?
CAPTAIN FREEMAN: Pretty much. That pretty much holds
true. Shift scheduling-wise, is that what your question was?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right.
CAPTAIN FREEMAN: Pretty much. I can't think of any
districts outside of maybe -- and I can't speak of Everglades City's
district, I worked there one day, one shift, so I don't know exactly
what their shift pattern is right now.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And that would be the only
difference, is Everglades. Everybody else is the same.
CAPT AIN FREEMAN: Yes, that would be correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Do you schedule on basis of
crime trends, like you said, its 3:00 or 6:00 to 12:00 and --
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June 16, 2005
CAPTAIN FREEMAN: Typically. And again, this is when I
worked district, which was two years ago, and I had 15 years
experience in those districts.
Yes, the lieutenants, they'll move shifts around to cover when the
high crime area is. Some districts the problems are traffic, so they'll
pull -- they'll have deputies working extra time during the peak hours
of traffic, in the morning or in the afternoon. So the lieutenants are
very flexible in where they assign their deputy sheriffs, depending on
what the district's problems are.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is that an efficient way to run
the shifts?
CAPTAIN FREEMAN: Absolutely is, the most efficient way.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is it, four-tens instead of
five-eights?
CAPTAIN FREEMAN: I believe it is the most efficient, when
you consider -- and that's my thinking. But when you consider all the
training required and all the flexibility allows you to move people
during the peak hours, it is the most effective.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is it a training requirement by
the State of Florida?
CAPTAIN FREEMAN: Absolutely is.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Thanks.
The -- the j ail is 12- hour shifts, correct?
MR. SMITH: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Why aren't they four-tens?
CAPT AIN FREEMAN: Because the staffing patterns for the jail
for a 12-hour shift, it's more efficient to have -- it's easier to fill those
shifts with the less amount of deputies on a 12-hour shift in the jail.
When we ran into the last few years of building up, staff-wise, for the
new facility, we could not do it on eight-hour shifts. It takes more
manpower to work an eight or 10-hour shift than it does a 12-hour
shift because of relief factors. There's a total of four shifts. So we're
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June 16, 2005
able to do it more efficiently with a 12-hour shift.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And efficiencies for 12-hour
just don't work on road patrol?
CAPTAINPREEMAN: No, sir.
MR. SMITH: One of the factors you run into with trying to keep
a deputy on patrol for 12 hours -- and I'm not saying that no
jurisdiction does it, because there are some that do -- but one of the
things that we looked at when we reviewed that was fatigue factor.
Because if you have a deputy that has to work a 12-hour shift,
he'll also have some requirements for court during the week that he
has to make appearances, so he may be missing some of his downtime
by having to stand in the courtroom. So, you know, 12 hours then
starts to become quite a long day.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What really drives the sheriffs
budget? I mean, when you formulate the budget, I mean, you must
have stats that get you where you're at to that. What is the
predominant factor?
MR. SMITH: Well, the predominant factor the last couple of
years has been the jail expansion.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right.
MR. SMITH: The largest portion of the sheriffs budget, you
know, is without a doubt personal service costs.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Calls for service?
MR. SMITH: Personal service costs.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. But I mean, as far as the
needs for the sheriff, or law enforcement, in this case, what drives it?
MR. SMITH: Calls for service.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Calls for service. And that's
where people call in and say I got somebody in my backyard, or is
there other things?
MR. SMITH: Well, a large percent of it is there's someone in my
backyard, and we have to send a unit out. But we also try to maintain
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June 16, 2005
an availability factor so that we can do things like patrol to keep crime
down and discourage crime, to do things like critical site checks, to be
available for backup for another unit that may be on a hot call.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Alarms?
MR. SMITH: Alarms.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: People call in -- or that's a dial
In-servIce.
MR. SMITH: Right. Also, we -- during the times when we're
not answering calls for service, those are the times where we're trying
to enforce tactics against red light running, when we're trying to, you
know, target speeding in work zones, those sort of things.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: But that's a special unit, that's
not a patrol deputy. You've got a traffic --
MR. SMITH: The traffic unit is just a very small piece of the
overall strategy that we throw at trying to manage the roadways.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: But that's not a call for service
when you talk about traffic details and that.
MR. SMITH: No, it's not. What I'm saying is in answer to the
question what drives the budget, we look at calls for service, and then
we have to maintain a percentage of availability for other things like
traffic and proactive patrol.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And I commend you, I have
seen a difference last year, and I think that's because of the public
outcry of more traffic enforcement out there. So I'm just recognizing
that it was a respond from citizens.
Are you aware that your calls for service logs in like COP activities,
COP -- COPS? That's counted as calls for service. Bicycle patrol is
logged in as calls for service.
MR. SMITH: I don't think that it is.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. You had 216 in 2001,
and it has gone down substantially, but it's still counted in. Code
enforcement, which has gone down.
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June 16, 2005
I mean, I just see a lot of things that are driving your calls for service,
like flight. Flight information, foot patrol is logged in as calls for
service. And it's -- I'm not sure if that's -- if that's really a call for
service or if it's special duties, like traffic. Special traffic operations is
a call for service.
MR. SMITH: I think that mainly what that is doing is when a
deputy checks out, indicating that he's on a foot patrol, he's doing
proactive activity to discourage crime. Sometimes it's a very directed
effort that, you know, he's been assigned to in a high crime area to try
to catch perpetrators in the act.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And they've been doing it.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, the budget is based on
calls for service, historically. You know, every time that we get a
budget, we see calls for service, calls for -- and you see it going up.
And, you know, can we call it something else besides calls for
service?
Because that's kind of -- to me that was misleading until I got
information to really know what it's all about. It's about all different
kind of activities within the Sheriffs Department. It's not somebody's
in my backyard. That's not what it -- I mean, it's part of it, but it's
also, you know, Code Enforcement, air patrol, traffic patrol, your
normal daily workings within the Sheriffs Department. It's not
somebody's breaking into my house. Like the marine unit, that's part
of calls for service.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You mean like differentiating
between emergency calls like somebody's entering my house or the
cat's up the tree? You mean differentiating --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No, not the cat's up the tree.
Somebody calls, the cats up the tree. What I'm saying is a -- you
know, some of these, like the COP deputies, it's a community outreach
type of thing. It's not a somebody calls and says okay, I want a cop
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June 16, 2005
over here because I have litter, that doesn't happen.
What I'm saying is the cats up a tree, that's a call. Somebody's in my
backyard, somebody's trying to break--
COMMISSIONER FIALA: So like emergency and
non-emergency calls.
CAPTAIN FREEMAN: Or proactive and reactive is the way we
determine it.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Correct, correct.
CAPTAIN FREEMAN: Proactive call or reactive. We react
when someone calls. We're proactive when we're doing COP or foot
patrol or checking buildings at 3:00 in the morning. That's a proactive
activity .
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right, right.
CAPT AIN FREEMAN: And it's my opinion pro activity is more
important than reactivity for crime prevention.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It is definitely for crime
prevention, but it's just -- to me, it's a little bit misleading. Not that
I'm saying that the Sheriff s Department is trying to mislead. But
when we say that calls for service was this and crime has gone down
dramatically, I mean, it just doesn't paint a true picture.
I'm not saying it's -- I would like to see some, like you said, proactive
and reactive type thing.
MR. SMITH: I think it would be pretty easy to categorize it like
that, if we could go back and capture that information.
I think a lot of times what's logged in on part of that dispatched detail
is activities rather than directed, you know, in calls.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I've been taking up too
much of this time, I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: That's all right.
Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'm listening to the dialogue here,
and I see that our crime statistics are down in the County.
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June 16, 2005
What really bothers me is traffic enforcement. And since we
have an overlap on Wednesdays, there's a lot of times that whether it's
Wednesdays or any other day of the week, where officers that don't
seem to be involved in road patrol will be in the vicinity of where
there's -- they're stopped at a traffic light the same as myself and
there'll be a violation and they seem to let it go unnoticed.
Can you tell me why that is? And I'm talking about people running
red lights, especially left turn lanes, where it's blatant. It's like the light
in my direction will turn green for at least one to two seconds and
there's still traffic running through that intersection, and yet there's an
officer there and doesn't take response to this. Is it because he's on
some other duty that he's not supposed to get involved in that?
MR. SMITH: It's hard to say without knowing the exact time
and location and who.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: It seems to be very prevalent,
unless somebody's in traffic enforcement, and then you see where
there's a group with laser guns or radar guns or whatever else that are
on a detail. But yet when there's just an officer that's in a marked car,
I think it's an officer, unless it's maybe administrative people. I'm
concerned about that, too.
MR. SMITH: Well, administrative people write tickets. I wrote
two this morning, so --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: No, I'm talking about
administrative people being like --
MR. SMITH: No, I understand. I was just going to say, you
know, without knowing exactly, it's hard for me to say. It could be
someone that was already assigned or dispatched to a call.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: But the light's not on.
MR. SMITH: Sometimes it could be such that had he taken
action to pursue the violator, it may have created a hazard in the
intersection. Sometimes those are some of the things you have to look
at.
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June 16, 2005
But we have spent a great deal of time in the last six months
emphasizing to our deputies the importance of traffic to the citizens,
the importance of traffic to the people who are affected most by that.
And we are making concerted efforts to show, as the Sheriff did in his
recent State of the agency address to the members, that that is our
highest priority this year is traffic.
So I can only tell you that, number one, I'm kind of concerned
when I hear that we have deputies who aren't reacting when they
could. And that's something that will be addressed.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Can you tell me how many
administrative people have vehicles other than officers? What your
ratio is?
MR. SMITH: I don't know what your ratio would be.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Or how -- what's the reason? Is
there any reason, if this is the case, why administrative personnel
would have vehicles, take home vehicles?
MR. SMITH: Are you referring to administrative people sworn
or administrative people civilian class personnel?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Administrative civilian class
people.
MR. SMITH: That's a very low number in our agency.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Is there any reason for them having
it?
MR. SMITH: You have certain units, like victim advocate unit is
the first one that comes to mind, who are called out many times from
their home to go to the scene where someone is confronted with losing
a loved one.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Are they a sworn person, then?
MR. SMITH: No, sir, they're a civilian. And they have an
unmarked car. It's usually not something that would be assigned from
fleet. It's not a pursuit vehicle. It's usually something that's a cheaper,
more economical vehicle.
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June 16, 2005
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Would this vehicle have lights in it,
too?
MR. SMITH: No.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. And how can we
differentiate between other than the lights, and how can we
differentiate whether the people are supposed to have a vehicle or not
supposed to have a vehicle? Do you have any way of controlling this?
MR. SMITH: We do. We have periodic review of our entire
fleet that's probably done twice a year.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Do you have any numbers here on
regards to unmarked cars or cars that do not have lights, and how
many that are used basically for administrative personnel?
MR. SMITH: We could get those numbers. I don't know if we
have them this morning.
MS. GOLIGHTLY: I have a total of70 civilian vehicles, but that
includes our CSD's that have --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And what is a CSD?
MS. GOLIGHTLY: I'm sorry, community service deputies. Our
crime scene personnel, those are civilians. They also have vehicles
assigned to them. There are very few civilians -- our IT department
has a vehicle assigned so it can go around to their different locations
to fix equipment. But we have very few vehicles assigned to
administrative type. The public information --
MR. SMITH: Public information --
MS. GOLIGHTLY: Public information officer is a civilian, she
has a vehicle assigned.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Last year we discussed the health
care costs that were -- we felt that might be out of line with what the
County Manager and some of the other Constitutional Officers have
been working on.
Where does the Sheriff stand on that right now, can you tell us?
MS. GOLIGHTLY: We currently are having an actuarial review
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June 16, 2005
done to update through six months a year. We changed plan
administrators January 1st, and we're seeing some economies there.
We want to see where we are as far as claims are this year for the
projection for next year. We have budgeted the County rates, and we
know that we are going to have to go to our members and increase
their contributions.
What we are undertaking now in the next two months is a study
of our rates. And we want somebody to look at the family versus the
single rates to make sure that we're in line before we go to our
members and tell them what percentage or what increase they're going
to have to come up with. And that is ongoing. Like I say, June 30th
we'd like to get six months' claims data to see where we are. But all of
our members are aware that an increase is coming.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: But we addressed this problem last
year, so you really haven't done anything from last year to this year in
regards to trying to address these rates, right, these insurance rates?
MR. SMITH: Well, I think we've taken some action, as Director
Golightly said. We have changed plan administrators. One of the
things that we have spoke with them regarding early on was the fact
that we need to reach a level of detail that will allow us to better gauge
where we're at so that we can move toward more of a shared fiscal
responsibility for our insurance program.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And what do you think your
guidelines should be in that area as far as cost share relative to what
the Sheriff s Department or the taxpayers pay in regards to the
employees? Do you have any thought on that?
MR. SMITH: Well, of course we also want to look at some of
the other law enforcement agencies in the area to see what they offer
as part of their benefits and pay package. We're trying to remain
consistently competitive with the surrounding area.
I can say with some certainty that it will be a higher percentage
sharing than it is today.
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June 16, 2005
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I would hope so. I think that the
majority of your people right now, it's basically -- right now the
Sheriff s Department is paying 100 percent. And there's only a few
instances, I think about only 30 or 35 employees that presently have a
cost share of 89 percent versus 11 percent.
In other words, what I'm saying is the Sheriff s Department pays
89 percent and the employees pay only 11 percent. And that, out of
your vast number of employees, is only about 30 to 35 employees; is
that correct?
MR. SMITH: That is correct, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. And so the rest of it is either
98 percent being paid by taxpayers and only two percent by
employees, or in some instances 94 percent and six percent.
MR. SMITH: Well, hold on just a second. Let me back up. It's
more than 35 employees. Yeah, what --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Thirty-five employees in regards to
what, that have a cost share of 89 and II?
MR. SMITH: That's correct. If you're under the family plan, if .
you have dependent coverage, which I would guess that's the majority
of our agency, then you are paying a premium for your insurance
coverage. If you're single, then the agency is paying 100 percent.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I think that -- I hope that the
Sheriff s Department will look -- will scrutinize it very closely, that
they need to come more in line with not only what the County
Manager is doing, but also what some of the other Constitutional
Officers are in regards to cost share. And we hope that this will place
more stringent controls on hopefully controlling health care. And I
think that's the biggest part of your -- one of your big items in your
budget.
The other item that I'm concerned about is when the Sheriff
always goes out to get grants, and then at the end of three years, that
becomes the burden for the County Manager. And I look at COPS,
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June 16, 2005
which I -- the program COPS. I don't think that's as essential as it
should be. And I think that we're being burdened. This year I believe
you got 14, and that -- when those people come off the COPS grant,
the County ends up with this extra burden. And in this case, it's about
$1.1 million, almost $1.2 million.
Is there some way that we can control some of these grants that
we end up as taxpayers at the end of the three-year period being
saddled with?
MR. SMITH: Well, I think that we need to understand or arrive
at some philosophy regarding grant positions. When we present a
grant to the Board for approval, it needs to be clearly understood, and
I assume that it is, that at the end of that grant period that it will be
assumed as part of the operational budget.
I think that -- in fact, I've witnessed the last couple of times when
we presented grants, the County Manager is very good about being up
front and informing the Board that if you approve this action, you
need to understand that this is going to translate three years from now
into us assuming these costs.
And I think that in the future, you know, we're going to do a
much better job of making that known up on the front end. Because it
is something that I think that we need to budget for, to include for.
Because as you've so astutely observed, you know, it's only free for a
short period of time.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah, there's no such thing as a
free lunch.
MR. SMITH: Absolutely.
MS. GOLIGHTLY: Commissioner, I believe next year in FY
'07, it's like 11 people coming off grants, so the number is coming
down. We're not seeing the numbers of people in the Clinton
administration, the cops on the street, those have all dried up and
they're pretty much gone now. You're not going to see huge numbers
of grant funded positions.
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June 16, 2005
COMMISSIONER HALAS: So let me see if what I heard from
you on your opening Statements were, that the budget that's being
presented to us today, that when the final budget comes before us that
it's going to be substantially less?
MR. SMITH: Yes. What I'm saying to you today,
Commissioner, is --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Look closely now.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: He's got the same affliction we all
have.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: He's got to read the fine print.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Here's my glasses.
MR. SMITH: You know, it's bad when you get older. When I
started in this business, I didn't even wear glasses.
But what we're saying --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I've been there a lot less and I --
MR. SMITH: What we're saying right now is were at 145,028,
200. And our proportionate share, as published in the budget
guidance, was 139,610,891.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: We're going to get to that, right?
MR. SMITH: We're going to get under that when we're done.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: We're going to get under that?
MR. SMITH: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Way under.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Well, that's good to hear.
MR. SMITH: As long as you don't -- well, let me issue a caveat.
As long as --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'm holding you to it.
MR. SMITH: As long as nothing unforeseen comes our way
that's supposed to be included, you know, under our proportionate
share.
As it stands right now, and I assume that the County Manager and Mr.
Smykowski have told us everything that's supposed to -- you know,
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June 16, 2005
that's paid by the Board that's supposed to be reported under our
proportionate share. As long as there's no more items coming our
way, then what I commit to you this morning is that we're going to be
under that proportionate share. I--
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Go ahead, I'm sorry.
MR. SMITH: We hope that all those people who looked this
year to see another process like what was experienced last year is
severely disappointed. That's not our goal.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. I have one last question.
How is the Sheriff doing on his overtime budget this year?
MR. SMITH: I'm glad you asked.
Did you want to put this on the visualizer?
MR. MUDD: Sure, give it to me.
MR. SMITH: Of course overtime is one thing that we were the
most concerned about as well. We've taken some actions to assess and
better address overtime.
As you can see on what's published on the visualizer, if you look
all the way over to the right, four columns over to the right, you'll see
the history for '04, actual overtime at seven million one-ninety-two.
In the '05 budget, that was decreased to six million eighty-nine.
The 2005 forecast, and this is the good news, is we're under that
projected -- or under that budgeted amount at 5.9 million. And the '06
budget request is inclusive of a 5.2 million for overtime.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: That's sure better than $8 million.
MR. SMITH: Absolutely. And we have yet to implement -- we
have developed policies to address further overtime utilization. We're
weighing them to go through the policy review process prior to
implementation. We think that that is going to even further reduce
that number.
So I think we're going to be sitting here next year again very proud of
the fact that we've decreased our overtime utilization even more.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: My last question is -- or my last
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June 16, 2005
comment is, I would like to see where the Sheriff s Department starts
working diligently in the health care area. I think this is very
important. And I think that will help bring your budget under the
guidelines that have been instructed by not only the Board but the
County Manager, okay? And I think it also will reflect positively for
the citizens here in Collier County.
Thank you very much.
MR. SMITH: Thank you, Commissioner.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, how are you doing with
staffing? Are you still 100 percent staffed?
MR. SMITH: No, we're not. What's happened regarding staffing
is when we went through the appeal process, not knowing where that
was going to end and what the final numbers would be, we had to
decrease our recruiting efforts. That almost immediately resulted in
the number of vacancies going up.
We've since made very strong efforts again out in the recruiting in the
community and State and nationwide. We're seeing those numbers
coming down now.
Also, after the phase-in of last year's jail staff, the January
phase-in of the additional 30 positions, that also gave rise to a number.
But as it stands today, we have out as many conditional offers, which
allows us to process one per position, than we have vacancies. We
may be four, five off from that number.
So it's looking still pretty good. I mean, right now as we sit,
we've got probably what, 70 vacancies, 65 vacancies. We anticipate
that by the end of summer we'll be fully staffed again.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Great, great. Well, personally, just
from my standpoint, I don't feel we should micro-manage you. I
mean, it's not our position. We haven't done that with the County
Manager. We haven't told him, you know, what administrators should
do in their departments and how they should schedule their workers,
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June 16, 2005
nor where they should assign them. We leave that up to the County
Manager to run, just as I believe we should let the Sheriff run them.
And we haven't asked the County Managers which administrators
have cars and which don't, and we haven't held his feet to the fire.
We've told him we want him to stay within this budget, period.
So yes, I think everything can be approved. We all know that, right?
But I think that this budget -- in my opinion I think you've done a lot
to improve the budget. And you've brought your overtime down I
think dramatically in response to the situations that we discussed last
year.
You've kept your positions pretty well full, and that's good, too. I
think that's important.
One thing we learned yesterday was when you have a large
amount of people continuing to change jobs, it takes you a year to get
them back on track again, and that really costs an awful lot of money.
So I'm glad to hear that you've pretty well kept that in line.
With regard to the COPS program, one of the things that I have
to say, if the COPS program, if they're on that road riding their bikes,
they really make a big difference in a neighborhood. There's good and
there's bad. Sometimes, and we had this happen a couple of years ago,
not now, where they -- a couple were assigned to the Manor, and they
just went for exercise rides every day. They didn't stop anyplace, they
didn't talk to anybody, and of course the crime continued on.
Now, you've got a couple of these COP guys over on Bayshore,
and man, they are tackling them. I mean, they've been cleaning up all
that junk, they've been working with our code enforcement. I cannot
believe all of the things they've done over the past six, eight months.
And to me, my hat's off to you. I mean, if that's what this
program can do, and they're visible and people know they're there, and
you can see their actions moving in a positive direction to help clean
up some of that crime, gosh, that's a wonderful thing.
And to me it's worth every penny. It's only when they go on for
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June 16, 2005
exercise bike rides, as they did a couple of years ago, and I had some
talks with some couple of people, and I think maybe that's changed a
little bit. But anyway, I think that's wonderful.
And talking about having talks with people, as I'm listening here
to the other Commissioners today, and I for myself, too, I think it
would be a good idea to have more communication between each
commissioner and the Sheriff s Office. Maybe quarterly, even,
somebody could come in and sit down and say, you know, have you
heard any problems that you're having in your district or in the
community or is there something we can do better?
And our people, you know, our Commissioners can tell you some
of the things they're dealing with. So by the time we get to this budget
process next year, all of those things are not only aired, but taken care
of. You know, I think that's an important thing. The lines of
communication really need to be opened up, I think.
So -- and as I said, I'm thrilled with the -- with your reduction in
overtime. I have to agree with Commissioner Halas, maybe
something can be done a little bit with the hospitalization. I know that
that's a recruiting tool and that's a wonderful thing, but possibly there
could be something that could be managed with that.
We knew that the budget was going to go up this year because of
the jail opening and because of Orange tree. And I think you've done a
pretty good job, quite frankly, in trying to keep it in line. So that's my
five cents.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I have several questions. And I
want to give you some time, too, but I just want to say that I -- the
questions that I asked is because I take my job as my fiduciary duty to
scrutinize your budget, and just as I did to the County Manager. And I
did have criticisms of the County Manager on how parts of his
agencies is running. It's my duty. And I hope you don't take it
personal.
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June 16, 2005
CAPTAIN FREEMAN: I don't, sir.
MR. SMITH: We absolutely do not take it personal,
Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'm going to allow the Chairman
to ask some questions, because I don't want to dominate the meeting.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Would you mind if I --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'll speak for Commissioner
Coy Ie, if I may.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: We're adjourned.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No, I absolutely -- I like very
much what I'm hearing here today. There was a misconception on the
part of some people in the public and members of the Sheriff s
Department that the Collier County Commission wasn't supportive of
the Sheriffs Department. That's not true.
And I know that everyone in the leadership of the Sheriff s
Department knows that we've been there. We were the ones that four
years ago insisted that he raise his base rate to his deputies when you
were having the loss of deputies, you were nothing more than a
training facility for other counties.
We've been continuously supportive. And I think that we had a
serious misunderstanding last year that got out of hand. I like where
we're going with it today. I like the direction. I like what I'm hearing,
the realization that overtime has to come into line, that you have to
look at the medical costs.
But one of the things I'd like to do is, you know, we get to these
points of highs and lows because of the actions of certain people. And
this point I'd like to recognize the fact that Fred Coyle, a member of
this commission that cares enough to work directly with the Sheriff s
Department, has played quite a role behind the scenes, working
directly with Don Hunter to bring this thing down to more rational
reasoning.
And I didn't want to let this go forward one inch farther until that
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June 16, 2005
point in time that I did recognize the efforts that took place between
Sheriff Hunter and our Chair, Fred Coyle.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Can I speak now?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No. Commissioner Halas, go
ahead.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I appreciate the compliment,
Commissioner Coletta, but I can assure you that there's nothing that's
happened here that hasn't happened as a result of teamwork, but -- all
of the members of the Board and the sheriffs staff. I think just having
these meetings so we can discuss these issues really helps a lot.
And so -- but I'm not going to suggest we join hands and start singing
kumbaya just quite yet. I do have some questions.
And the -- you really are to be commended for coming in,
following the budget guidelines to the greatest extent so far.
But the fact that we have decided in the past to use a slice of the pie
concept doesn't necessarily mean that what we want to do is spend all
of the slices of the pie. We've been able to hold some of the
departments to substantially less than the slice of pie. And of course
all of the budget decisions should be based on what is really, really
needed.
And I should recognize Scott Smalley has joined us. Thank you
very much. Good to see you.
MR. SMALLEY: Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And so I've got some questions. I don't
know that they have any answers, I just need to raise some questions
and discuss things with you, okay?
Based upon the review of the expenditures so far on the FY '05
budget, it appears that two COLA allocations were granted to Sheriffs
Department personnel during that fiscal year. Is that true?
MS. GOLIGHTLY: What happened was we started out October
with a two percent COLA. And then our members get a one percent
merit increase on their anniversary. Work policy, I think, for FY '05
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June 16, 2005
was about 3.85 percent. Because of us being under appeal and not
knowing, our members really didn't get the increases that they should
have.
And so we were looking and doing a pay study and review of
what's going on in the community as far as retention and recruitment.
And we felt that we needed at this time to make an increase in the pay
of our members.
So they got a three percent across the Board increase effective May
17th. It equates out annually to just a little over one percent. So we're
still within the guidelines set by the commission.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: So there was no COLA allocated as of
October, the first of the fiscal year.
MS. GOLIGHTLY: Yes, October, there was two percent.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: So actually it was a five percent, then,
right? A two percent in October --
MS. GOLIGHTLY: That three percent just equates to one
percent for this fiscal year, because it was just part of the fiscal year.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. But there was a two percent and a
three percent in May, May the 17th, if I remember correctly.
MS. GOLIGHTL Y: Right. And then there will be no COLA
increase October 1st of ' 05.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Now, is that reflected in this
budget?
MS. GOLIGHTLY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: When will the COLA increase take
place?
MS. GOLIGHTL Y: Right now we're converting to a step plan.
The Sheriff has established a wage and benefits review committee.
Captain Freeman, Captain Bloom are the heads of that committee. So
we're in a transition period right now.
October of '05, what is planned right now is to get people into the step,
the closest step. And then on their anniversary they will get a step
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June 16, 2005
increase. So there's no additional COLA plan.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It's sort of important that we get the
details of that and understand.
MS. GOLIGHTLY: Right. But it still falls within the guidelines
set by the County Manager.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I understand. But please understand that
that was a maximum budget allocation guideline. It was not
necessarily a guarantee that that's what everybody gets. And clearly,
all of our departments didn't get that.
So I don't want to establish the policy that yes, we're always
going to get whatever money is generated as a result of increasing
property values, because I think you'll all agree that your services are
not dependent upon increases in property values. I'll make an
argument in some cases they are, because it affects your cost of living
here. But generally, crime is the result of increased population or
failures in enforcement. And your history indicates you've done a
really good job with enforcement.
There are times in our history where we had a much smaller
population but we had a much higher crime rate. So you've done a
really good job of enforcement or prevention.
But I think we can all agree that your primary crime rate
potential is driven by increases in population. And so it's not driven
by property values. And so that's why I want to make a distinction
there. And I'd just like not to have any misunderstanding.
So you're going to give us this step plan or the plan that is going
to be used for personnel increases for the next fiscal year, right?
Okay, okay.
With respect to retirement calculations, I understand there were
some recent decisions by the Florida legislature. Are those new
retirement calculation guidelines included in this particular budget?
MS. GOLIGHTL Y: Yes. There was a $2.3 million reduction
from our May 1 st submission with the new rates that came in.
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June 16, 2005
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. The -- I understand that you told
us that you do recognize the need to move closer to overtime to what
the other governmental agencies provide as far as health care benefit
cost sharing. Is there any reflection in this budget that gets you closer
to that?
MS. GOLIGHTLY: Well, we budgeted the County -- what the
County asked, the blended rate. And in order to get that, we are going
to have to increase the member contributions. So it is going to go up
for our members.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: What will it go up to? Give me a
percentage figure.
MS. GOLIGHTLY: We're in the ballpark of increasing -- I
showed this to the Chief -- it's in the neighborhood of 10 percent. But
we are waiting for the actuarial report and some projections on our
split between family and single and how that's going to --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Now, when you say 10 percent, you say
going to a 90 percent, 10 percent split on health care benefits?
MS. GOLIGHTLY: That's the direction we're heading. And we'll be
able to tell you finally in September when we come back.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
Now, recognizing that earlier in this calendar year, and in fact late in
last calendar year, you were supposedly at full staff during periods of
that time. You are not now staffed completely. You have shortages.
To me that implies that you should end this fiscal year with some
carryover because you did not have all of the staff positions you
anticipated.
Now, if that is true, can you quantify that for us and tell us how we're
-- what we're going to go do with that money?
MS. GOLIGHTLY: I can't tell you that specifically at this time.
That is our next project as soon as we've gone through workshops
here, to look where we are and proj ect where we're going to be
September 30th.
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June 16, 2005
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And there is some savings, some
reduction in overtime, as I see it. And I would hope that during the
summer months when our population is smaller and things aren't quite
as busy, it would appear that we would have less overtime
requirements during those periods than we would during the really,
really busy months.
And it would appear, based upon a running rate for the remaining
three months or so in this fiscal year, that you might have additional
savings in overtime.
But I think your proj ections are that you're going to be, what,
$75,000 or so less than what you had budgeted; is that basically where
we are right now?
MS. GOLIGHTLY: That's where we are right now.
One thing we have to keep in mind is the opening of the new jail and
the training, and depending on what date that is, there will be some
overtime incurred there when shifts are training. And one of the dates
we've gotten is August 1 st. I'm not sure that's the firm date --
CAPTAIN FREEMAN: As of Monday it still is.
MS. GOLIGHTLY: So there will be probably some training and
overtime required.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Are we still on track with the jail?
MR. MUDD: Yes.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Are we still okay?
MR. MUDD: I talked to Skip yesterday. It will be substantially
complete 1 August. There might be a couple of punch list things
going on until about the 15th. But I asked him that question yesterday
to make sure.
Now, we were originally scheduled for 1 September, and we pushed
her forward as hard as we could. So we're still driving it home.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Good. And that's okay with your
schedule so far?
CAPTAIN FREEMAN: We have planned administratively to be
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June 16, 2005
ready as soon as the doors are open. We have saved some cost of
training by sending members to Immokalee, which is running on the
same type of security system to train them while they're on duty here
as duty staff. We have two or three members there doing their
training cycle there so we can save some cost there.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Good.
You -- of course you do. You know the productivity committee has
made a number of recommendations. There are some that are very
intriguing. But when we come back, and when you have this
additional information that you're going to provide to us, I would
appreciate an opportunity for you to tell us, you know, your side, how
you feel about some of these recommendations and why they mayor
may not be appropriate for implementation, okay?
Could you do that for us?
Rather than sitting here and debating each one of them, because I
think we've already established that there's still some additional
information that needs to be done, some additional calculation that
needs to take place. And there's hardly any point in doing that in a
piecemeal fashion. So let's do it when you come back with all the data,
and then we can go through some of these other issues.
And if you'd like to provide us with some specific information in
the interim, it would help us to fully understand the issues so that we
-- if it's clear that a recommendation is not in the best interest of the
department or the people of Collier County, then we can dispose of it
and not take a lot of time debating it during these meetings.
But there's some here that I think are intriguing. And I think we'll all
admit that we don't know enough about your operation to make a
decision as to what it is. We need your input and cooperation on this.
The other thing I'd like to -- the Sheriffhas asked us to, rather
than to use the piece of the pie concept in the future, to start looking at
the actual needs of the Sheriff s Department. And of course I like that
idea.
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June 16, 2005
If we develop some metrics that will help us determine
acceptable levels of service and cost, it would be very advantageous to
all of us. And you've included some of that in your report.
There are things which are unclear to me, however, and one of
those is the comparison of the number of square miles in Collier
County versus those in other counties. I don't know whether your
square mile calculation takes out the -- or the Indian reservations or
the State parks or any areas which are not patrolled by the sheriff.
And if some areas are patrolled by the sheriff, I'd like to see what kind
of reimbursement we get from either the federal government or the
Tribe. I don't think you do any patrols in the tribal areas.
But if we could refine that process, because I think I understand
what you're saying to us is that although our population isn't as great
as some of the other counties, our land mass is larger. But I'd like to
make sure that we're making the calculation using accurate data in
areas that are actually subject to patrol.
So we would like to work on those kinds of things as we move
forward, and we'll need your input to do that.
And Commissioner Halas, you've been waiting for a while, I believe.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I just want to finish up by saying
that as Commissioner Coyle made reference to the next time we have
a meeting, I would -- hopefully that by that time you'll have
information in regards to medical plans with other departments, and
hopefully it will be with the five or six different counties that we
would use as a nexus, and that we would figure out the best way to
address this health care situation, and that you would come back with
a plan showing how you are going to institute this and what pace that
you're going to come up with a cost share and what that cost share
would be. And hopefully it will be somewhere in line with, as I said
earlier, with the other Constitutional Officers and with the County
Manager.
I'd also like to say that there is a citizen's group that really
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June 16, 2005
worked, I think, diligently with the sheriffs staff in addressing all the
issues in trying to find where we could be more efficient, and that was
the productivity committee that Commissioner Coyle related to. And I
just want to say, I want to thank those citizens, because this is a group
that not only looks at your budget, but they look at every budget in the
County. And these people put in -- donate their time. They don't get
any money on this or get paid for this. And they work really
diligently trying to make sure that the government here is cost
effective.
And I just want to thank you and the productivity committee for
working together, hopefully to get to a resolution so that we don't get
into a contentious situation as we did last year. It doesn't benefit
anybody.
And I like the area that we're going, and I hope that we can
continue that dialogue, and I look forward to seeing your budget, your
finalized budget in September.
Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Your road patrol, you have six
hours a day of overlapping time. And that's not a bad thing, I'm not
saying that. Calls for -- citizens' calls for service has gone down, if
you take out all the other proactive calls for service that you have in
your overall stats. But yet road patrol has overtime. Seems like it has
a mandatory overtime.
And when you come back, can you convince me how or why
they really need that overtime?
CAPTAIN FREEMAN: Are you referring to the 43-hour work
week? That's their standard work week. They don't get paid overtime
for that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: There's no overtime for that?
CAPTAIN FREEMAN: No, sir. They do not get paid overtime,
that's their standard work week. Corrections and law enforcement,
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June 16, 2005
certified members are required to work 43 hours of work week. I
believe the Chief could probably tell you historically where that came
out of statute. But we do that without getting paid overtime. That's a
requirement for paperwork and --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: District -- how many road patrol
deputies cover -- from District 2 cover Golden Gate Estates today?
MR. SMITH: Do you have that number?
MS. MYERS: How many per shift or how many are there?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Per shift that cover Golden Gate
Estates.
MS. MYERS: I can't answer that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Because you created a new
district for Golden Gate Estates. Historically, District 2 has covered
Golden Gate Estates, so one would think that your -- you would take
that count and shift it over to Golden Gate Estates. I just --
MS. GOLIGHTLY: That is one of the things that is being looked
at right now as part of -- before we come back in September is the
staffing of the new District 4 and how they can move some resources
from District 2.
And if I can just go back for a minute on performance measures
that you brought up. One of the things we are working on and we are
working with the productivity is on performance measures. And
besides the calls for service, you also have to look at response time.
And that's one of the big things out in District 4, what are -- what
do the citizens consider an acceptable response time.
And Chief Rambosk is working on this, and when we come back in
December, we should have a lot of good information for you.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Could you give us also what is
in the comparable counties -- what is their response times?
MS. GOLIGHTLY: Yes, we can --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You know, everybody wants
great service, everybody wants the Cadillac service, but nobody wants
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June 16, 2005
to pay for it, you know. It's just the way it works.
There's a few things that I don't understand in the budget. What's
VOCA or V-O-C-A?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Victims of Violent Crimes Act.
MS. MYERS: Yes, thank you.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's another department?
MS. GOLIGHTLY: That's a grant funded right now.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: D-E-A -- you've got 28
positions in the D- E- A.
MS. GOLIGHTLY: Drug enforcement.
How many positions are you saying?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Twenty-eight. Twenty-six
full-time and two -- oh, I'm sorry.
MS. GOLIGHTL Y: That's D and B.
CAPTAIN FREEMAN: That's narcotics bureau, drugs and
narcotics.
MS. GOLIGHTLY: You're one line up.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'm sorry. Where's
Commissioner Fiala's ruler? D-A is --
MS. GOLIGHTL Y: One person.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: One person, yes. What is that?
MS. GOLIGHTLY: Drug enforcement agency. We work in
combination with the D-E-A. And we have one person from staff
assigned to work with them.
MR. SMITH: That's our commitment to a region wide task
force.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Then you have eight
full-time law enforcement officers -- no, I'm sorry, I was up one. I
need to use that ruler a little bit more.
The Human Resources, is that where you have your recruiters?
MR. SMITH: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Now, I understand that
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June 16, 2005
you now have a minority recruiter, a new position.
MR. SMITH: It's not just a recruiter, it's a minority affairs
bureau, if you would. They do more than recruit, they also answer and
assess the needs and the concerns of the minority representation of the
County.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: How does that coordinate in the
budget? I mean, when you ask for new personnel, I don't remember
seeing that from last year.
MR. SMITH: That was part of the sheriffs reorganization, so
that is new.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So that's a new position.
MR. SMITH: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is it counted here somewhere in
this --
MR. SMITH: Yes, it should be, yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Maybe you could tell me
later where I could find that. I mean, if you've got reorganization --
MS. GOLIGHTLY: It's on Page 21 --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Twenty-one.
MS. GOLIGHTL Y: -- minority affairs. Page 21 in the budget
book, about halfway down.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. And that --
MS. GOLIGHTLY: That really wasn't an additional position,
because the Sheriff combined a couple of divisions under the captain,
so --
MR. SMITH: It was an existing position.
MS. GOLIGHTLY: It was an existing position.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I know you had administration
reorg. And we could find that here in the budget and how that worked
out?
MS. GOLIGHTLY: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Somewhere? Let me see,
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June 16, 2005
the -- oh, I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Get your ruler out.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No, I have it right here. You
have a FEMA grant for '05 for over a million dollars. Is that a
one- time grant? What is that?
MS. GOLIGHTLY: What page are you on?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You know what, it doesn't
matter. That's in the past. That was for Hurricane Charley.
MS. GOLIGHTL Y: Hopefully we will not have that this year.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes. I think we're past -- I don't
think we're --
MR. MUDD: Well, at least it won't be named Charley.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It won't be named Charley.
Maybe Charlene or something like that.
That's my last question. Thank you so much for your patience.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I really would like to tell you a quick
story about traffic enforcement.
Sometime back I was stopped at Golden Gate Parkway and U.S. 41 at
a traffic light, and an officer in a marked car made a left turn from
Golden Gate Parkway to head southbound on 41, and he apparently
made his left turn just as the light was changing, because after he
turned, he saw two cars run the red light and go directly over into the
shopping center in Publix.
And rather than going down a block or so and turning around and
trying to locate these guys, this officer drove across the curb on 41,
across the median, across the sidewalk, down the curb, into the
parking lot of Publix and apprehended both of those cars. And I was
really proud of that officer for doing that. And I just hope he didn't get
in trouble for doing that.
MR. SMITH: He will.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I think he was -- he exercised diligent
care, he was careful when he did this, but he wasn't going to let those
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June 16, 2005
two people get away, because the violation was just so flagrant. But
he got them both. He nailed them right there in the parking lot. So I
like that kind of --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'd like to give that gentleman an
award.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I wish I could have stopped and gotten
his name, but he was busy.
But thank you very much.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, can I ask one -- you had a segue.
Last year we were talking about red light running, and the sheriff was
investigating what other counties were doing by local ordinance to try
to prevent it. We thought the legislature was going to pass the red
light running law, but they didn't. They chose to --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Pass the growth management law
instead.
MR. MUDD: They chose to add a fee to the red light running so
that they could pay for trauma, and that's where that part went.
But there was some dialogue on the sheriffs part where there might be
something that another County is doing to get red light running and be
able to try to do something like we were talking about, get the car per
se versus the driver.
And I was wondering, I'd like that dialogue to continue to find
out if Palm Beach or somebody at West Palm is doing something
where they're getting red light runners by local ordinance, that we
could do that. If that indeed is the case, then if it's done by local
ordinance, then you can bring that to the special master and you can
bring a lot of money into the general master because of it.
So I'd like to see where that came out, if there was a different
way besides the Florida Statutes being changed in order to get that,
that would be a good thing.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Good.
MR. SMITH: Yes, that is an area that Sheriff Hunter was out in
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June 16, 2005
front on doing some work with the legislature. We did not get that
piece of legislation this year. That doesn't mean we're done. We're
going to continue to try, because we believe that that is in the benefits
of the community, the citizens. We also think that it's a cost effective
way to deal with red light running, as opposed to having to add staff to
combat that issue.
So those are things that we're going to continue to lobby for in
Tallahassee, to get that legislation pushed through.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Good. Thank you very much.
Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes, I think there was a
commissioner from Palm Beach by the name of Commissioner Koons
who was really pushing for that. And we have a F AC legislative
session coming up next week in Sarasota, and I plan to address that
with him and see if we can't get that back on the agenda with F AC.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: FAC is Florida Association of
Counties.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And we're going to see if we can't
get some stimulus behind that. Because I believe this is an issue that
needs to be addressed not only here in Collier County and Palm
Beach, but all the other counties in Florida. So we're going to see
what we can do to push that effort.
MR. SMITH: Yes, I also believe that the Florida Sheriffs
Association is also going to take an aggressive posture on trying to
lend support to that bill as well.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Good, good. Well, once again, thank
you very much. It was very good seeing you all again. And I
appreciate your hard work and we look forward to working with you
in the final resolution.
MR. SMITH: Thank you.
MS. GOLIGHTL Y: Thank you.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, on that capital-- before everybody
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June 16, 2005
gets up, there are some capital issues on the sheriffs budget that I want
to make sure that you're aware of.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah, before you go too far, did you get
the permits for your tents?
MR. SMALLEY: Yes, sir. They're up and running.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: That's the only capital project I'm
interested in.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: How do they withstand this weather
--
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Who cares.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- the heavy rain?
MR. SMALLEY: It's a very good tent.
CAPTAIN FREEMAN: Yes, ma'am. We did have some issues
we worked through with how it drained when the rain came down the
sidewalk. But we've pretty well taken care of that.
MR. SMALLEY: They're not military tents, they're sprung units.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Our military is out in tents in Iraq
and Afghanistan, so --
MR. MUDD: There's no air conditioning in those tents.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Nobody asked how they feel.
MR. MUDD: I want to make sure that you take a look at the
constitutional capital program. And one of the things that we're
wrestling with and we're doing our darndest --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Page number, sir?
MR. MUDD: I'm on Capital-I, it's under constitutional, it's the
last page in the section, last page in the book.
I want to make sure that you know that there's a sheriffs special
operations center and an Orangetree substation that aren't in the
budget. The impact fee you just passed will help, that starts in August
as we work through that process. We're working two different impact
fees on the sheriffs, law enforcement and corrections, and you'll get a
corrections update.
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June 16, 2005
You'll see on the UFR list that the substation is in there for about
a million and a half, and that the special ops building is in there, I can't
remember, 13 or $15 million, so these aren't small.
And then if you look at the plan, there's an additional admin.
section that gets put here and we get the Sheriff off Horseshoe, out of
the building that they're there, based on the overall plan. I just want to
make sure that you understand that and you know that in the process.
And I just saw an e-mail yesterday, Chief Smith was asking
questions about the jail. The old jail is trying to get the security
system to match the security system in the new jail, which makes
sense, so you're not monitoring both. Well, it was something that
wasn't anticipated when we did the j ail modernization and the other
piece. The price tag is 1.55 million, not in the budget, not in the
contract.
And so as we try to figure out where those dollars come -- there's
no magic here, okay, they're not there. And so we had to tell Chief,
say, you know, that might be something we'll have to swap out here in
a couple of years, because we don't have it right now.
But as we work through this, and if the Sheriff is coming with
monies that are less than that proportionate share that Commissioner
Coyle talked about, that might be something that you might want to
put those dollars against.
And, you know, that kind of is an enticement to try to, you know, not
only come under that budget, but those dollars that you do, we use
against things that we can't fund right now that benefit his
organization and the community at large.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: That's a good idea.
MR. SMALLEY: Ergo the previous caveat.
MR. MUDD: So you're going to come in at 10 million.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Could you tell me what a special
ops center is and where you're going to build it?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Countryside.
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June 16, 2005
MR. SMALLEY: I'd rather do that off-line, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I got it. See you afterwards.
MR. MUDD: Ma'am, there was a certain agenda item that came
to you two meetings ago that asked for an extension for six months to
a particular lease.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay, yeah, yeah, gotcha.
MR. MUDD: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Everybody all set? Everybody's
okay?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Might make it easier if you don't
tell all the public.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It's going to be consolidated with that
emergency operations center.
Okay, thank you very much. Appreciate your help.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, we have wrap-up --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: You wanted to take a break?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah, we're past time, aren't we? Let's
take a break.
MR. MUDD: We have wrap-up at 1:00.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: We can't wrap up before then?
MR. MUDD: No, sir. You've asked us some things, for some
information that we need to get to you, and I've got everybody
working on that, and so 1 :00 we'll get done. Wrap-up will take less
than an hour.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. That's fair enough. We may as
well adjourn then.
MR. MUDD: Yeah, we'll adjourn till 1:00.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: So at 1 :00. So we're going to adjourn till
1:00.
(A recess was taken at 10:45 a.m.)
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June 16, 2005
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Ladies and Gentlemen, please take your
seats. Are we ready to resume the budget workshop?
MR. MUDD: And if I can get the administrators and the separate
directors to come on up to the front table, that would be great.
Commissioner, on the overhead you will see the wrap-up in the
agenda piece. If you remember correctly, yesterday during my
opening remarks I wanted to talk about a County Manager initiative
and I was trying to keep track of time to make sure that we have
enough, and I said I would continue that at wrap-up, and I'd like to do
that before we start, but then wrap-up items are listed and we'll go
over each one of these as we go along. Those are the notes that we
took with direction from the Board as we were moving on. So I'll start
with the County Manager initiative.
Commissioners, one of the purposes I'd like to -- there's been a
couple of things I'd been trying to take a look at as I have been the
County Manager. One big think is try to reduce the cost of our
benefits package and pay issues as far as the County is concerned and
try to come up with some efficiencies in order to save money for the
County. And in this particular case, there are three things that I'd like
to talk about today about this proposal to see if I can get the Board's
approval to add that to the budget. It is not included in the budget.
We'll consider this an un-financed requirement, but I wanted to
have a couple of minutes to talk to you a little bit about it.
First of all, one of the things that came forward about two-and-a-half
years ago was the talk about changing the way we did merit pay.
Merit pay for County employees in the past, and I'm talking four
or five years ago, was basically put into the account, into an
employee's salary. And that merit, not only was it a benefit or reward
for previous year's efforts in the salary of the next year, but it was in
the salary of that employee for every year that they were going to
work for years and years to come.
Another thing that we did when we went out, we took a look at
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June 16, 2005
our different levels of our employees and the jobs that they did and we
came in with a pay scale that basically had the midpoint in the middle
market, and then we had below market and above market and it was
about 25 percentage points on either side.
One of the things we also talked about was, when somebody gets
to the maximum of their pay scale, to quit giving that employee
COLA. So that's because they're at the max of their pay scale.
So they're as good as the market will bear in that particular pay
range for that employee. And it made sense. The other thing we
talked about was when an employee gets 10 percent over the market
point, that we would give them their merit as a one-time bonus instead
of being put into their pay. And we also changed all department
directors and above so that no matter if they were below the market
point or above it, because of their position in the County, that they
would only get bonus as a one-time lump sum.
This chart in front of you basically talks about what happened
when we did that. The first year that it came in place, we saved the
County $400,000 because of that. The next year, which was last year,
we saved the County $800,000. You get the $400,000, it goes all
across the years, and you get another $400,000 the second year that it's
in place. This year you've got that $800,000 plus another four gives
you 12. And in the '06 budget, we would have saved -- well, we have
saved the County some 1.6 million dollars because of that policy
change and the way we did merit and the way we did COLA for the
people that have maxed out in their pay ranges.
So what I'm trying to say is that the employees gave up a benefit
that was there -- I could go and talk about how the County back in the
nineties changed paying
sick leave out so nobody gets a sick leave benefit, and that is basically
a benefit to the County at about $100,000 a year from that time
forward.
By the way, I believe we are the only group that doesn't at least
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June 16, 2005
reward some kind of sick leave when an employee leaves.
So the County that -- your agency under the County Manager
doesn't do that, and nor does the County Attorney. What I tried to do
on this slide, and I tried to highlight it, and I wanted to talk about what
we've saved the County based on this five-year program we've been
on to notch percent off of our 90/10 split to 80/20. And under this
highlighted piece, the whole group, if it's changed to 90/10 split where
we were before, we basically saved in '06 a total of $2.4 million, just
because we've diverted that $2.4 million onto the employees' -- into
their check, and that's basically their cost share, now that they've taken
up versus the taxpayers of Collier County.
In no way, shape, or form, does that change in health care
percentage small, and you can see by that number it's pretty significant
What I -- and what I'm going to talk about is trying to do three
initiatives. One is to use the number of senior management positions
by Florida statute that are allocated to Collier County where we don't
use those now. And I'll talk about that in just a second.
The next is to come up with a 457 deferred compensation
program for those people that are getting lump sum bonus checks to
give them some incentive to save money, and based on the
conversations that we're having in the County about Social Security
and its lack for, or lack of confidence in what it's going to finally do
having a 457 program set up for the employees in that particular group
that have been getting lump sum merits would probably be a good
thing to do.
And last but not least, I've always had a problem -- it just seems
like if an employee did a great job for Collier County from anywhere
from 15 to 40 years and all of a sudden they leave, and they retire
before Medicare, the Medicare start age, they don't have any medical
insurance. And we want to talk about that a little bit. I believe we can
at least tighten that up a little bit. Try to offer a product to reduce cost
based on some criteria to a little cost to the taxpayers, but I believe it
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June 16, 2005
gives them
something that -- it closes that loop. And so, I'll start the discussion
with the senior management service positions. And at the end I will
roll that up for you as far as total costs are concerned.
Right now we have 11 positions currently designated as senior
management service. And the difference between that designation is
the fact that senior management service gets two percent per service
year into their retirement versus the regular class which is 1.6 percent.
By the Florida retirement rules, the County is eligible for 28 positions
in senior management service. We use 11 positions currently. So
we're underutilizing 17 positions. And I'd like to add 14 to that 11 to
make it 25. And it still gives the County three in case there's a change
to an administrator or some kind of reorganization that was hinted at.
Again, I'm not trying to add administrators, but there's always
something that comes up that we'll still have the capacity to add up to
three. The proposal is to put directors at/or above rate for directors.
And then to add the three direct reports to me. Those three direct
reports to me are Jack Worth, Dan Summers, and Mr. John Torrey.
Now, Mr. Mike Smykowski is already senior management
service. That was done years ago, and he's also a direct report to me.
That's the first initiative.
The second initiative that I wanted to talk about was the deferred
compensation 457 package. The current plan that we have is -- and
let's talk about the 457 defined contributions. This is a -- let's call it a
50/50 cost share in this particular arrangement. The current plan is
administrators and the Deputy County Manager, the County puts up
$1,500 each, okay, and puts it off to the side. If those administrators
and/or the Deputy County Manager would like to put $1,500 of their
own money into the plan, at that time the County will put $1,500
against their $1,500 and there will be $3,000 in their 457 package.
What I'd like to do in the proposed plan is to offer a proposed
plan 457 to any employee that's been --that's 10 percent above the
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June 16, 2005
market value that is now getting lump sum merit, and offer, and put
$500 to the side for each, if they chose to put $500 of their own
money against that $500, there would be $1,000 that is then put into a
457 account.
I'd like to, for the directors, put up to $1,500 and I'd like to
increase the amount of the administrators and the Deputy County
Manager to $3,000.
And the same kind of thing, there would be $3,000 put against
the side, if that person puts up to $3,000, there will be a one to one
match until that $3,000 level is met. And at that particular juncture,
it's up to them, the County no longer matches that particular fund.
That's the second proposal.
The third proposal is to try to take care of a gap medical plan.
Some Constitutional Officers basically take their sick leave from their
retired employee and put it up against that and work the entire plan
fully paid up until that person becomes manager does not have that
plan nor does our sick leave have any value to it. It is a -- it is a
benefit, but it's one that's there in case someone is sick. It's not
something that is there to be abused. And if it's not used, it isn't
something that gives somebody time off, nor does it give anybody any
money.
I would like to, at lease in this plan, in this gap insurance
program, give it some value. And what we've done is, we've come up
with a hierarchy, and I will brief each Commissioner and give them
the details of this particular hierarchy so that you know exactly what it
does.
But I'd like -- if a person serves 15 years in Collier County and
retires, is able to retire, and they retire before Medicaid, or Medicare
comes into play for them, I'd like to be able to have some kind of gap
coverage that -- where the County would put money against what the
individual would put up against the program. And depending on what
the employee's share would be, would be dependant upon how much
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June 16, 2005
sick leave they've used over the years. That the criteria would be a
completion of at least 15 years service, retire, and receiving benefits --
retired. Not getting a second job, but retired. I mean, they are retired.
They're not out gaining income from a second job. And they receive
their benefits from the Florida Retirement System, and they possess at
least 60 percent of earned sick leave accrual.
And I'd like to talk about that a little bit. I'll just try to give you
an example that I was working with on an email. In no way, shape or
form is this a finished product. I just wanted to have something that I
could talk to you a little bit about. And I don't believe Jeff Walker is
believing that I'm actually showing you this right now. But, it's okay.
He'll get over it.
If an employee in this particular plan, and, again, we'll give you
all the details and show you the chart. If he had 15 years and he had at
least 60 percent accrued leave remaining, the plan would pay 50
percent of the single rate for the employee's rate. The single rate. The
employee would pay $252.50 a month and the employer would pay,
the County would pay $252.50.
The State pays an employee after they've been vested after six
years, $5 a year on a monthly basis, okay, to be used for a medical
plan. And in this particular case, that $5 times 15 would be $75, and
they could go in and apply for that money from the State. You have to
apply and use it against the medical program. They could apply. This
program would be fine as far as that application is concerned. And the
employee's out of pocket would be $177.50, because he could use that
$75 he's getting from the State against his particular share.
Right now when an employee retires, we offer them the ability to
pay 100 percent of the costs of the County group program. Right now
that's around $13,000 a year. If the employee's retired salary is
$25,000, you're basically saying, well, if you want to have medical
coverage, it's going to cost you thirteen grand of that 25. So then
they've got $12,000 to pay whatever bills and live on it or whatever.
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June 16, 2005
And this is some way to help defer that particular issue.
Now, the 30-year plan, if the employee has over 90 percent of
their accrued sick leave in their bank and they have 30 years, then the
program would pay 100 percent of the single rate coverage. So in this
particular case, and they've got employee and employer mixed up, the
total cost of that single rate, and this is at a $500 deductible plan, and
that's what I would recommend that we use, then the employer would
pay $505 a month for that particular issue.
Then I asked another question of Mr. Walker. I said, well, that's
great. I said, I hope after - and let's say I was one of those employees
-- and I won't be, by the way. I won't be here for that 5 years. If I am,
Medicare will certainly be beyond when I retire, so, in no way, shape,
or form in this example am I talking about myself.
I'm trying to put myself into a IS-year category where somebody
has been married for, in my particular case 31 years, okay, and I plan
to hopefully be married until the day I die to my bride. And what
about my bride? What about my spouse? You know, now you got the
single wife, but what are we going -- are we going to offer anything
for the spouse?
Now, I understand the spouse didn't work here, but I do believe
we should let them participate in, not to be compensated any more
than the single, but they should be able to work the single and one
plan that we have. So, what I just described to you at $505.76, if they
had a spouse, their monthly bill would be $723.24. So they would
have to come up with the $223.24. And I just wanted to let you know
what that increment would be. I'm not asking the County to pay that.
That's not part of this proposal, but I just wanted to let you know
in case you had a question, because hopefully at retirement time
you're not having any more kids, but that could change too. And, so,
but it was important for me to talk about that spouse. And so it gives
you an idea. And then if you have to do the whole family, you can see
it really jumps as far as that piece. Of that particular puzzle. I wanted
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June 16, 2005
to make sure that we've talked about that just a little bit. Now, I also
told you that I would take a look at the cost overall so that you get an
idea. And what I tried to do is -- and instead of just going out there
and saying, okay, what do you think? I said, do me a favor, look at
our population right now of employees and figure out those people
that would be eligible at 15 years or 30 years and how it would apply
to them, and also take a look at those people that are on the one-time
bonus check issue, so that we're actually looking at real numbers today
against the population that we have under the County Manager's
agency.
The FRS piece to increase to those 14 positions on an annual
basis, it would cost $25,322. The deferred compensation piece, which
is that 457 50/50 split that I described at three different stages. One
for all employees at $500. If you're a director then it would be at
$1,500. I
If you're an administrator, Deputy County Manager it would go
to $3,000. And the reason I have the word maximum, as I described,
it is a -- it is a 50/50 share. And they have to come up with their share
before the County puts up their share against it up to that maximum
amount. So, and the reason I say maximum, some people won't want
to partake. I find it hard to believe
that they wouldn't, but some people don't partake in this particular
plan.
So the maximum amount outgoing based on the current
population in what we have in the County would be $238,000. And
right now on the retiree health piece that I just describe to you based
on the chart and the folks that we have in the County, that would be an
annual outlay of $55,553. Total costs of those three initiatives is
$318,875. When I say the savings, that was basically based on the
first chart that I showed you that talked about what we did with lump
sum merit and what we've done with COLA not being applied to the
maximum amount, and the same thing with lump sum merit to the
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June 16, 2005
department directors and to administrators.
Just from that example, it's a net savings of 1.2 million which
reoccurs every year because of those initiatives in the front that we've
already done, plus you have the part about the health care that I've
talked about already that was over two million dollars. That's what I
wanted to talk to the Board about a little bit. To talk to you.
We have spent a lot of time over the last two-and-a-half years
looking at those things to try to figure out what things we can do to
entice good people to stay and to -- and by no way, shape, or form
does it make up for what things have already transpired as far as the
lessening of the benefits, but it does do a little bit to try to incentivize
those folks a little bit and have another benefit that's out there. We
can talk about that at the end of wrap-up, or we can discuss that now
or we can continue to do the wrap-up issues, and I can just add that to
the UFR list and we can discuss it later. That's at your discretion.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Well, I don't know how the other
Commissioners feel about that, but I would really like to delay making
any changes concerning additional costs until we get a better feel for
how the overall budget is going to shape out and maybe do that in
September. But, I'll be guided by the majority of the Board here.
Commissioner Henning has a question. His light is on.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you. Did you run this by
the productivity committee?
MR. MUDD: No, not yet, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So I understand that by your
answer you're going to?
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So we'll get recommendations?
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The 1.6 savings --
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- it just wasn't encumbered.
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June 16, 2005
When you build a building, or when you contemplate building a
building and you put it off, I mean, that wouldn't be a savings either.
You just didn't spend it.
MR MUDD: Commissioners, we came forward with an initiative
in order to try to cut costs, and we basically cut the costs out of the
benefits of the County -- of the County employees. So, you're
absolutely correct. There's a difference between my budget coming in
$7 million below the pie, and a budget coming in smack up against it,
okay, and using everything. And I call that hide and go seek. They
hide it, you go find it. We don't play that game anymore. We try to
bring in as bare minimum as we can. And we heed your guidance,
and then if you decide as a Board that you would like to add that to the
particular budget, we do it. I believe we have gone out there and
we've cut the benefits thing as close as we can cut it.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And I appreciate the honesty
and openness.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And you're exactly right. And I
think that's why you see some of the hard questions out there because
--
MR. MUDD: You're right, sir, it would be encumbering, but
because of the cuts, it doesn't show up in the budget. So, therefore, I
call that a savings. I'm not putting it on forever, I'm just letting you
know what the employees have taken on over the last couple of years
in order to reduce the budget amount, and it's been at the -- at the
detriment of their benefits package.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I think if you view it from the
standpoint of continuing the past practice as opposed to what you have
actually done, it would be considered a cost savings.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: You actually changed the procedure that
resulted in substantial cost savings. Commissioner Halas.
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June 16, 2005
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes. I've looked at this, and
pondered this, and I'll tell you that as we heard yesterday, it's getting
more and more difficult to retain good people. And I think if we have
an incentive program of this nature, it basically applies a set of golden
handcuffs to the points, when these people decide to jump ship, that
maybe they'll have second thoughts.
The reason is that when you start looking at, if you have people
who have been in a particular position, they have a wealth of
knowledge. And when you lose that individual, chances are you're not
going to have a training session whereby somebody can fill the gap in
a short period of time. I've experienced this in my other life, whereby
when you have well-trained people, it takes -- to train someone else,
it's going to take at least two years, if not more, to bring them up to
maximum speed, or maximum efficiency. So, overall what this does
is gives that person who is thinking about leaving the County, who is a
valued employee, to take a serious look in regards to maybe this is
something that is an incentive to keep them here and to benefit all the
citizens here in Collier County.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Commissioner Halas pu~ it in a
really nice way. We always think about our employees. We have to
be conscious of what their needs are, what it's going to take to retain
them, I agree. And the couple of things that I noted in the
conversation, one was Commissioner Henning's question about the
productivity committee. I'd really like to hear back from them. The
other thing I'd like to hear from is -- and of course, they'd feel very
uncomfortable coming before this commission and talking to us on a
one to one basis with the employees.
Possibly some sort of survey that could reach out and touch the
employees and maybe with the only identification marks would be
how long you'd been working for the County and you're maybe age
group so we can try to come up with some sort of scale to see what it
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June 16, 2005
is like for employees that are brand new and in their twenties against
employees that are in their late forties, early fifties.
I have no idea how they would react to it. I would kind of like to
think that we would have an overwhelming response of people saying
yay rather than nay. That would be the two things that I'd like to see
between now and September.
MR. MUDD: I think Ms. Price can talk about that for just a
second.
MS. PRICE: Commissioners, we recently put out a survey to all
our employees asking them about ways in which we could keep them,
things that they'd like to see in terms of benefits and rewards. And
we're in the process of putting together, in addition to this package,
something that will provide our employees with better recognition
when they perform well.
Some of the things that are less costly, but actually provide
greater benefit and incentive to the employees. So we're going to be
coming forward with a full employee relations and recognition
program for you to look at.
We're looking at things not only from that standpoint, but we're
also starting to explore the affordable housing issue, the issue of
housing when we bring people here. So, we're looking at a very
comprehensive package.
We did not survey the employees on this particular piece, but we
did ask them what they'd like to see in terms of being recognized for
the jobs that they do. And we got some very honest input. And like
you say, they did not have to identify themselves.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I like what you're saying. The
only thing is -- and believe me, if they had an affordable housing
element where we get involved to be able to offset employee housing,
I think it's a wonderful idea not only we should look into, but the
Sheriff s Department and the hospitals and the school system should
look into also. I know the hospitals are doing it to a point, but that's
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June 16, 2005
off the subject from this.
Going back to this, we still haven't come up with this plan to the
employees per se. We got some idea across the Board what they're
looking for, but I really would like to see a consensus of our
employees out there to see if there is something that really would
achieve those objectives.
MR. MUDD: We can ask that question.
MS. PRICE: Absolutely.
MR. MUDD: And that's not a problem. That's easy to do.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And that essentially means we'll hear
back in September?
MR. MUDD: And the only intent was to raise that to the Board,
get your thoughts, and just have the ability to put it on the finance
requirement list, and then when September rolls around, you can make
a decision on that particular item based on productivity input. But I
want to at least talk about this particular thing with you. I'm not
asking for a decision today, I just want a bookmark. That's all I'm
looking for on a long list.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Good. What's next?
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, then we start with our wrap-up on
the first item that we wanted to talk about is waste water budget
changes on the UFR position.
You basically said for Mr. DeLony to add those positions, and I
wanted to make sure that you know that we went in there. And
basically you'll see that his expenses, as far as his people expenses,
they've gone up with these four people.
However, his operating expenses have gone down. And in this
particular Waste Water Department, this is Joe Cheatham, there was a
reduction of $259,000 based on that presentation yesterday versus
going contract versus in-house.
And then when you do the water department, when you add to
those five positions, the same kind of dynamic transpires, the
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June 16, 2005
personnel services go up, the operating dollars go down for a net
savings of $374,500. And that's exactly what we talked about
yesterday that was going to transpire. I'll just let you know the new
sheets now reflect that.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: So you're adding more staff and your
costs are going down.
MR. MUDD: You added more staff yesterday and your costs
went down by over half a million dollars, because Mr. DeLony was
contracting out those nine employees versus the in-house. And the
contract price for those particular skills are not cheap. And they come
anywhere two times higher than what we can do with an in-house
person.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Let's add another hundred people,
we'll make lots of money.
MR. MUDD: Well, yes, sir. I understand that mentality, but,
you know, that doesn't always work. In this particular case, it did.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Hold on a minute. Commissioner
Coletta has a question.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Just wanted to make one note.
I'm sure there's people out there listening and wondering how this
affects them one way or the other, plus or minus. Well, definitely it's
a plus. But when we're talking about water, wastewater, drinking
water, it all comes from a user's fee that generated at a point to be able
to just cover that particular use. So if you're on a well and you have
your own septic tank, this doesn't apply. I had to get that in because
district five, most of us have wells and septic tanks.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: As they should be. Being in the
unincorporated -- or the rural area.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's a nice word.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. The next item that you have subject to
any questions on the first one was water, wastewater that was just
basically to show the Commissioners that we had made the changes.
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June 16, 2005
Next one is EMS overtime. There was a question yesterday.
You wanted to know what the overtime was. On this chart, first
question was, how many employees are eligible for overtime in the
emergency management services. That's 173. The overtime that's
discretionary, I'll use that word, for lack of a better term, is on this line
that my pen is pointing to. The '05 adopted budget is $830,000.
Forecast is 802. The '06 request is $722,900, and that is a 12.9 percent
reduction as far as overtime in emergency management service --
emergency medical services. That also includes the six expanded and
there's $407,000 that is budgeted against those 6 FTE.
If you take a look at the nondiscretionary, the union contract, the
scheduled overtime, that's partly because most work a 54 -- I believe
it's a 54-hour week and 14 hours are planned overtime. If I've made a
misstatement, you'll let me know, Dan. Okay?
If you take a look at that scheduled overtime because of union
contract, you can see that it has in '05 adopted budget was 2.1 million.
And it's 2.3 million in the '06 requested budget, and that's an 8.8
percent increase. And a lot of that has to do with the six expanded
FTE that fall under the union contract. And then just from a total
aspect, if you add both numbers, it's 2.9 million. What do they
believe? Their forecast '05 is at three. Their budget -- and I've lost
my pen on this thing. There we go. The requested budget '06 is at 3 --
it's just right around $3 million, and that's a 2.7 percent increase on the
total. I believe that's the information that you asked for yesterday.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: As far as the scheduled overtime is
concerned, that really is nothing more than a guaranteed salary
.
Increase.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. That basically predates what their salary
is. It averages out to be on an average around $47,000 a year.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And that, of course, is used for the
purpose of calculating retirement pay?
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir.
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June 16, 2005
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. Now the controlled overtime, the
discretionary piece, we are doing everything in our power to make
sure that that's not -- okay, put against use in temps. We are doing
different things like that, setting up contracts whereby the dollars don't
come directly into us and go back out again so it shows up on a
paycheck. But if there's a check paid by, may it be Harley Davidson
track that has an ambulance there, or may it be a school function
where they needed an ambulance. That the school would write the
check to the employee, and there would be a certain overhead amount
that would come back into the general fund coffers that would pay for
the ambulance, the depreciation, the supplies that are used in that kind
of business.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: But then in that case, there must be
another category of overtime. There's unscheduled overtime which is
-- which consists of those services provided to third parties who pay
for those services. And then there must be a category of overtime that
takes into consideration a situation where an EMS team on call maybe
has to stay longer than they normally would on shift. Where does that
fall ?
MR. MUDD: That's in this column right here, sir.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Is there any way you can break
those two categories out sometime in the future?
MR. MUDD: Oh, yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Sometime in the future. I mean,
give us some information sometime.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. Sure. We can put that in memo format
and get it to all the Board members.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Good. Thank you.
Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What about this third party pay?
Are we doing that now?
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June 16, 2005
MR. MUDD: Dan, you want to -- we are taking the third party
pay right now into the County system. And it -- right now it shows up
on their retirement. And in '06 I directed that that be stopped.
MR. SUMMERS: Sir, that's correct. Exactly correct. And
again, those stand by, or special event situations are relatively not
frequent, however, they do kind of domino very quickly when you
start looking at those additional overhead administrative retirement
costs and that type of thing. So we now have a process in place, sort
of cloning what the Sheriff s Department does in terms of special
event coverage. So that we do not carry the burden of that retirement
in direct and administrative overhead that feeds these additional fund
requirements. So we'll break that out. It is -- it will be a contractual
process, as Mr. Mudd alluded to. It will also be an accounting process
to make sure that Collier County is not penalized for the special event
support.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The problem is -- the difference
is, is the sheriff deputies have a dedicated vehicle to them. In EMS'
cases, that's part of the road unit. Unless we have an extra one sitting
out there.
MR. SUMMERS: We do try to use reserve equipment when we
can do that, but we also understand, our reserve capability is minimal.
And we also, when we do special event contracting, we make sure
that the contractor is aware that if that unit is needed for a call in the
community -- in other words, it goes to the special event in an
in-service status. And so we don't have the reserve cars, as you
mentioned, much like the other. But we have a way of either
backfilling it, or using, on an occasion, a spare vehicle.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Commission Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes. Going back to EMS and
their contract for hour's work, what is considered a workweek for
EMS for contract, as far as the contract goes?
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June 16, 2005
MR. SUMMERS: Oh, for the contract. It will typically be a
56-hour workweek. It's an on 24, off 48 type schedule.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm sorry. One more time.
Would you say that one more time how it's laid out?
MR. SUMMERS: Their work shifts are on 24, off 48. And of
course then they do have some rotational periods in that. There is an
opportunity for that to rotate where they may also have a kelly day or
a spare day that rotates in there. That is driven by -- that on 24, off 48
general shift pattern is also driven by the requirements of the Fair
Labor Standards Act.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: My concern -- so, in other
words, it's very similar to a fireman?
MR. SUMMERS: It is similar to the firemen, except their Fair
Labor Standard Act has some exception in there for EMS. So, it's the
same pattern, there are some slight differences in requirement by fair
labor standards.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And it's considered overtime at
--
MR. SUMMERS: Anything over 40.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Over 40.
MR. SUMMERS: Anything over 40.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And in addition to those hours,
they can work longer?
MR. SUMMERS: They can't -- they're not -- they do have an
opportunity because our reserve personnel is so low that we have to
cover the maternity leave and the sick leave and those types of
personal leave scenarios. There's also, and again, this goes back to
some of the discretionary where we have to bring that paramedic in to
clinical training, review, quality assurance. We actually have to have
face time with them for testing and in-service. We also have made big
strides in that in-service by doing more of that continuing education
training on computer at the stations on their own duty time. So that's
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June 16, 2005
one initiative.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Let me ask you one question.
And I don't know, I don't think it's a ridiculous question. I think it's --
is there any situations where -- well, we're going back to the Sheriff s
Department, when we had a deputy in the jail because of the lack of --
the number of deputies to be able to work there. There were some of
them working overtime way in excess of 40 hours a week. And
sometimes it was, you know, like 80 hours or so. And impossible
hours that I don't know how they can maintain their living standards or
their family. And we don't present those kinds of misguided
opportunities for the personnel in EMS, do we?
MR. SUMMERS: No, sir. We are very conscious of the fatigue
situation, the on 24 and off 48, so we're in good shape on staffing right
now. We hope that continues. The additional overtime that may
become an opportunity, is not used in such a fashion that we are
overtaxing our personnel for something beyond the 24-hour shift.
And if so, the supervisor has the discretion to say, look, this particular
unit ran all night long. They've gone 20 hours without rest, we don't
want that person carrying on another shift for safety and for care.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So the public can be assured
that our personnel aren't overstressed to the point that the duties that
they're to perform, the life saving duties, aren't going to be
jeopardized?
MR. SUMMERS: Sir, we're very sensitive to that. And they
should be comfortable in that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you very much.
MR. MUDD: Commissioners, the next item we talk about is
additional backup information on the marine agent position. And I'm
not too sure if you all got this particular document. Mike, do you have
copies of this? Or Marla, you want to talk about it a little bit?
MS. RAMSEY: Yes, I can talk about it. The staff did some
research and contacted Bill Lorenzo with Natural Resources, The
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June 16, 2005
Conservancy, Rookery Bay and Florida Gulf Coast Universities reps.
And all of the agencies feel that this is an enhancement of
activities here in Collier County. Rookery Bay, I think there is a
representative here as well, but one of Rookery Bay's comments was
that the sea grants clean marine program that they have would work
closely with the marinas that are now in operation here in Collier
County and help him with the best management practices by using
some of the current research that they can get from the State or
national levels. That is something that is not being done currently.
And I think I did mention yesterday that the Rookery Bay was
offering a computer -- a desk space, office space, computer access to
their fleet of boats, et cetera, at their location as an in-kind match as
well.
Some of the -- the Florida Gulf Coast University's Marine Lab, I
think there was a comment about that. And when we talked to Florida
Gulf Coast, they expect that the marine agent will extend the research
and the information of the lab to reach the Collier County community
more effectively.
The position will be involved with marine and coastal legal
issues and have access to State legal experts in exploring the legal and
regulatory issues associated with the boating and marine communities,
especially in a post hurricane period, and water access and loss of
usage time associated with those.
So, everyone that we talk to, they really see this as a go-to person
here in the community that they can utilize for additional resources,
and to bring in top research elements and be a facilitator between
maybe a commercial fisherman and the environmentalist and bring
best practices and new information to those agencies and commercial
fisherman you might have in the area.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: So, in other words, you're saying
this isn't a redundant position, this is something that has been needed
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June 16, 2005
and not filled?
MS. RAMSEY: That's exactly what all of the agencies are
saYIng.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, and I'll add that explanation to the
back of your documentation on that particular position. You know,
we'll just have an-add-on right there that you'll have it for decision in
September. Mr. Chairman.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Who coordinates all of the
activities associated? We have a lot of agencies involved in doing
something in this area. Who coordinates all that?
MS. RAMSEY: I believe that there is a coordination going on.
And if it is, it's informally. Parks and Recreation will try to teach the
community about it. We may turn to Rookery Bay or The
Conservancy for some additional information. We try not to duplicate
the services that are being offered, and we know what's going on in
the community. We use each other in those areas.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That's one of my problems. There
are lots of activities going on. There's nobody coordinating them.
Now, if this person were responsible for coordinating them and
making sure they don't became duplicative, and in fact, making sure
people understood they exist, and getting people knowledgeable about
how they can take advantage of these services, now that's one thing,
but if we're going to have somebody who is going to go out on the
beaches and talk to the tourists about shells, you know, I'm getting a
little concerned about it. Okay. And that's what's bothered me about
this from the time it came up. There were no specific arrangements
for coordinating all the various activities that appeared to be going on.
And I also would like to make sure that if the County does contribute
to $41,200, and the sea grant program matches the remaining 50, is
that a salary of$91,200 for this person?
MS. RAMSEY: No, that would be benefits and there is some--
there is some secretarial help in here as well, is my understanding.
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June 16, 2005
COMMISSIONER COYLE: So it's more than one person. It's a
staff -- it's an office. It's -- it just keeps growing. Where is this person
going to actually set up their office?
MS. RAMSEY: Rookery Bay has offered the space at their
location, which would be very close to the lab, that the Gulf Coast
University is putting together as well. It would be under the university
extension. University of Florida.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: and is this person going to be
charged rent or is rent going to be allocated to this particular position,
utilities?
MS. RAMSEY: Rookery Bay is going to absorb that in-kind as
an in-kind donation.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I just don't want -- to make to sure
this doesn't turn into one of those comp positions where we get it
subsidized for a few years and then all of a sudden the subsidy
disappears and we're left taking up the entire cost.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's what this is.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: You think that's what it is?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's what it is.
MS. RAMSEY: There's a representative from Rookery Bay to
help with that end of it here in the audience if you'd like to hear from
her.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. And I intend to let them
speak about this issue. Would you like to come up here and tell us?
Can you answer some of those questions for us?
MS. W ALENSTEDLER: I think so.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Good.
MS. W ALENSTEDLER: Where do I go?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Wherever you like. Either one of those
podiums.
MS. W ALENSTEDLER: I'm Tabitha Walenstedler, and I
coordinate the coastal training program at Rookery Bay. And I'm so
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June 16, 2005
happy to be here to talk to you. I get to tell my friends and family
what I did today. It will be kind of neat.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: But they won't be impressed.
MS. W ALENSTEDLER: They will. I guarantee it. Let me
answer some of your questions. I think the first thing to specify is that
the target audience for the sea grant person is pretty specific. It's
essentially marine industries.
So, boy, that's -- it's a specific audience, but we have over 20,000
registered vessels here in Collier County, so that includes all the
people who go on the vessels in the recreational sense, including the
marinas and all their staff, the boat rental companies and all the guests
that come, people who the build boats, work on boats, bait shops, west
marine, et cetera. So it's not maybe as diffuse as you know, it is a
specific target audience. As far as we know in collaboration with the
other groups we talked about, nobody is really doing specifically
boater education in terms of environmental marine resources.
We have boater education and safety through the Coast Guard
Auxiliary, and the -- what's the other group? Anyway. Auxiliary, and
the other State boating.
MR. HALAS: Parascungin.
MS. W ALENSTEDLER: Parascungin. Thank you. But again
we're talking about environmental resources. So, now, while Rookery
Bay does try to reach this audience, we do have the staff to get to that
many people in the way that we need to get to. They definitely are
impacting our environmental resources in the area.
A big part of sea grant too I have to throw out, the reason why we
think it's a tremendous opportunity, not only are we building this
partnership by kind of leveraging your and our space at Rookery Bay
-- which we are ready to go, by the way -- we're really excited that this
would happen. Is also opens us up to in, Collier County, a big pot of
Federal money that only sea grant people can apply for. So we feel
like getting that person on Board, having them collaborate very
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June 16, 2005
closely by being on site at Rookery Bay and with all of us who are
doing marine industries education. And then we'll be able to grow the
program.
I think the final thing I'll throw out there. I'm not sure if I
answered your question well enough, was, I would be pleased to come
back in a year from now, if you see fit to fund this, and to show you
the tremendous impact that we can have with the sea grant program.
They have so much of a great reputation, and there are so many great
examples of programs they've done in other counties. I just really
think that --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Who is this person going to work for?
MS. W ALENSTEDLER: They're directly working for the
cooperative extension office.
MS. RAMSEY: They would work for the university extension.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. And so we presume that
we're going to go out and grab a boatload of tourists on a fishing boat,
and in some way educate them? Is that what we're saying?
MS. W ALENSTEDLER: No. Let me give you some specifics.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: How are you going to -- yeah.
MS. W ALENSTEDLER: That's what you need, right?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah, I really do.
MS. W ALENSTEDLER: Okay. No, that's fine. Let me think of
the programs.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Well, can I help you along?
MS. WALENSTEDLER: Yes, please do.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I think that this sea grant individual
is like an extension agent. Like a farm extension agent. Okay. This
is just one aspect of the educational process. But, say for instance
there's a group of people or persons that are interested in aquaculture.
Through the extension service, they can help these individuals find
ways and understand what it's going to take to get involved in
aquaculture so that it's productive. They also work closely, I believe,
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June 16, 2005
with the commercial fishing industry and also with the -- just the
regular people.
MS. W ALENSTEDLER: Recreational.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Recreational. That's the word.
Recreational fishing community. As you know, there's Federal
legislation possibly coming down in regards to closing off different
areas of the gulf for fishing.
Well, this agent works on our behalf, because most of this comes
from University of Florida, the money, and what they do is, they sit
down and do it objectively, try to acquire scientific information in
regards to, does this really need to happen.
And so that's some of the benefits I think that you get of the sea
grant individual. And as this young lady spoke, that they are able to
get additional Federal grants, which is money in Washington that
belongs to us that we can get back here to our area. So I didn't mean
to take --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, okay. I know all about
extension programs. I know about farm extension programs. And I
know that the gentleman down in Chockoloskee who wants to set up
clam farming knows more about what is necessary than this person
we're planning on hiring, I can assure you. And he knows about where
to go to get that information better than anybody we're going to hire at
$50,000 or more.
And I believe that everybody who is in the commercial fishing
business knows exactly where to go, either to the State or the Federal
agencies about issues related to commercial fishing. I just don't see
quite what this person is going to do. And there are lots of people who
do research on this.
There are lots of people who are doing research on the red tide
issues. And probably every major university in Florida has done
marine research of some kind. In fact, I think Florida State even has a
remote facility down in Marathon that addresses a lot of the issues.
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June 16, 2005
So, how does creating one position in Collier County improve the
research and the dissemination of information that these people don't
already have access to?
MS. W ALENSTEDLER: Well, that's a huge question.
MS. RAMSEY: Well, let me help just a little bit.
MS. W ALENSTEDLER: Please do.
MS. RAMSEY: I think that this person becomes the conduit, so
to speak, that all of the research based elements coming from national
and State runs through an agent, whether it be a farm agent or a
vegetable agent, lifestyle agent, or in this case, a marine agent. It all
runs through them.
And their job is to provide that information through all the
agencies within our community. So I think they become the go-to or
the conduit to getting the information that you're speaking of.
I think the facilitator of issues that Collier County may have, that
we may not even realize as we sit here today that, you know, we take I
think very good care of things on the land, but we probably haven't
given as much attention to the water ways around us.
There are ethical angling elements that come into play. There is
new legislation that comes down and who helps to educate everybody
about what those new laws are and what they mean. I think that's how
we see the marine agent.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, I just want to understand it
conceptually. I appreciate the need for extension services and
education. But, when I vote to approve money and people to do
something, I'd like to understand the procedure that will be used to get
the job done. All too frequently people rush into these things and they
throw money at a problem, and they don't think through the process of
how it really gets done. And I think this is one of those situations. I
don't think we thought it through, but nevertheless. Commissioner
Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So, if it's like the ag extension,
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June 16, 2005
somebody can go out there and know when to plant tomatoes and --
MS. RAMSEY: Best practices, pesticides, herbicides, whatever,
all the resource that's coming down through the university itself. And
in this case, even nationally, they're associated with NOVA. NOVA is
also a part of the process.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It would be similar to one of
those programs. Can they assist Commissioner Halas at catching
more fish?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Nobody can solve that problem.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is that what it is, how to filet
fish?
MS. RAMSEY: How to filet fish. No, I think it would be more
environmentally sensitive to the area around us, and how you can get
the environmentalist and the fisherman facilitated between that. You
see that not as much maybe here as you see in other areas, but there is
a lot of tug that goes on between the boating community and the
environment community.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And that probably this will
make it worse?
MS. RAMSEY: It could.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I got -- you know, when I go
out, I got Fish & Wildlife, I got DEP wanting to harass me about what
fish I'm getting. So it sounds like this person would be just another
one to harass the public. And let me tell you something, the
commercial fishermen, they don't want anything to do with
government. Nothing at all. They've been stepped on by government.
And the voters of Florida kicked them out. They don't want them
there. So, there are a few out there still trying to do crabbing, trying to
do clamming, and yet we're going to introduce more government.
You know --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Commissioner, why don't you take
a look at -- oh, I'm sorry.
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June 16, 2005
MS. RAMSEY: Commissioner, I don't think I see this person as
an enforcement person. I see this person as bringing research here and
providing information for best practices in whatever the marine
element might be.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And the person you want to
harass to get in my fishing box is not enforcement. They just want to
know what I'm catching so they can put more rules and regulations on
me when they come back. That's all. That's what the Fish & Wildlife
Commission does.
MS. W ALENSTEDLER: I really feel like I might be able to put
a little bit of a specific defined look at the sea grant program. And it's
only because I speak from the program that I work with, which has
somewhat of a similar mission, but it's just me.
And essentially we're trying to bring scientific information to
bear on public behavior and professional behavior. And it's that link
between science and management. It's the link between scientific
information and what we do every day in our yards and in our
businesses. And, of course, in the way that I really appreciate it that's
both economically feasible and environmentally appropriate. It's a
really big challenge. It's really not just about the regulation.
These positions, the sea grant particularly, is a huge reputation
for partnerships. And I hope you see Rookery Bay that way too. The
Marine -- Collier County Marine Industries Association has been on
Board with this as well, and they're very excited about the potential of
the sea grant position.
So we do have some specific backing from commercial groups
right here in the area. And there is a method. And we actually
specifically do need assessments of the group so we have a process to
gather information. Then we decide what they need, get the resources
and partners and then deliver the program. Evaluate the program,
assess the needs.
And so we actually have a training cycle that we work on that is
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June 16, 2005
very accountable. And, again, I have to offer that if we get this
opportunity, I'll guarantee you I'll come back with a bunch of great
proj ects and commercial fishermen here who are like, you know, we
benefited from understanding more of the cycles of the environment
that helped us to be more productive.
So, I guess that's kind of how I shape it is that science to
management behavior police type of a link that's kind of absent in a
traditional education program.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. Do you have any kind of letter
from the Marine Industries supporting this?
MS. W ALENSTEDLER: I don't have it with me today.
Unfortunately, I didn't even know this come up yesterday. I jetted
down here in 15 minutes to be here. So I'd be glad to get that back to
you though.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah. From the local Marine
Industry?
MS. WALENSTEDLER: Yes, Collier County, absolutely.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Commissioner Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Talk about turning people's
lights off.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Are your lights out?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: They're going to be.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: All right. My personal
experience with this goes back with the beginning of clam farming.
when Robert Roberts from Everglades City and Captain Matt Flynn
wanted to kick this off, this initiative. And we really didn't have
anything to hang our hat on. I took on the responsibility of pulling the
parts of the elements together best as I could figure. Didn't seem like
it would be that difficult. And we moved forward and got everything
going. We even put out -- we got permission from the State to put out
test beds of clams to see how they would do over there around
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June 16, 2005
Chockoloskee. Well, we screwed up. I screwed up. What happened
was, is that when I put the whole thing together and I started inviting
all the participants, I missed one of the major ones and that was
Rookery Bay. And they took personal offense at it. They raised holy
hell with the State. They made us pull all the beds apart. Made us
pull all the clams up. We lost over a year.
If we had that agent at that time who could have seen where we
were heading, and we wouldn't have stepped on somebody's toes, they
would probably be harvesting clams today. I can tell you, that was
one of the complaints that the participants that organized this together,
they had was, they couldn't get, what they call cooperation. I call it
the lack of knowledge from local government. We went to the extent
that we could to help them.
If you take a look at this particular map here of Florida, it shows
those places that have a marine agent that assists in their counties.
And I imagine they've been there for quite a few years. And probably
these people had been receiving a benefit. But what I would suggest --
I understand there's a couple Commissioners that have second
thoughts on this, and that's good.
We should always question what's coming before us when it's
new to see if it can stand the test of our scrutiny. Is that when we
reconvene on the budget hearings, that we invite the marine agent
possibly from Lee County, which is the closest County. If not
available, then from one of the other counties on the west coast, to
come to our budget hearing and make a presentation of exactly what
they do do. We can ask those questions directly to the person that's
providing the service and see if its something that we think is an item
that we'd like to spend -- what is it? How much money?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: 41,000.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: $41,000 in Collier County.
That would be a suggestion.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Nothing wrong with that, as long as we
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invite a representative from Marine Industries Associates.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, sure. That's great. I think
that's a wonderful idea too. You'll take care of that.
MS. W ALENSTEDLER: Love to.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I have a better idea. Why don't
we just budget it. It has to come back to us on a regular agenda for a
final vote and then we better have more information about job
description, enforcement powers, and so on and so forth and, you
know, we can kill it then. But, what Commissioner Coletta said,
really ought to kill it because here is somebody trying to do some
good things in farming and government stopped them because they
were here.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, I'm sure that decision was
based on some very sound science.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Sure, sure.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Let's go ahead and let's wait
until we have the trial, then hang them.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. We're finished with this item. So
I think what Commissioner Henning said was we'll approve it, and
before it comes back for the final budget hearing, we'll hear from the
people who support it or oppose it and we can make a decision then.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, it's on your UFR list.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
MR. MUDD: So, the bookmark is there. So, are you telling me
to put it in the budget or just wait until September and the information
will come in, people can come talk to Commissioners in the
meantime, and when it comes up to the final UFR list in September
when we go down that list for the final time, that we can make a
decision if we want it or not.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. That sounds okay with me.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, put it in the budget.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Is that okay with you?
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June 16, 2005
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yep.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, the next item is community
developments. And I just want to make sure this particular next bullet
works, there was no action for this workshop, but we didn't lose the
fact that you're looking for Mr. Schmitt to do metrics because of
funding of additional positions to improve service. Okay? Okay. So
I made sure that we got it. And as we carry that forward, I'm going to
be looking basically put suspension on this particular issue so that we
can come back to you with the information that you desire.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Commissioner?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You were saying yesterday -- how
many employees do you have?
MR. SCHMITT: Well, 160 employees total. 260.5.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And you're about 36 down, I think
you said. Short or something like that.
MR. SCHMITT: Part-time.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Oh, okay.
MR. SCHMITT: Part-time code enforcement.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I didn't see that half a person.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: He wanted to see that half a person.
He wanted to see half a person. You're 36 down, I think you said.
And my point is not so much that you're 36 down or anything, what
I'm saying is, has it been -- have you had trouble trying to fill those
vacancies?
MR. SCHMITT: I'm not sure I said 36 down, so I don't have that
count with me right now, but I believe my weekly report I'm about 15,
16 or 15. Do I have trouble filling in the professional positions? Yes.
As most everybody does. It's when you're looking for let's say a
planner. It would be a senior planner or a principal planner. Normally
that type of person is going to come from outside the area. Certainly
one of the biggest factors here is the cost, not only to relocate, but the
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June 16, 2005
cost of housing. Certainly--
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Pretty soon we might have some
gap housing.
MR. SCHMITT: I understand. But, so it's a factor of salary. It's
a factor -- there's a lot of other things that play into that, as everybody
at this table experiences in trying to replace, hire new people. But at
the same time mention -- I'll use the planner, for example, they're very
valuable to the industry in regards to the knowledge that they gain.
I'll use a name like Fred Reichel. He was with us for 15 years,
and certainly he's got a good promotion and he's a planning director
now for ADD, but those are the kind of things that we compete with,
and I experience that kind of, shall I say probing, my directors feel
that especially with the planners.
The engineers, likewise the same thing. I'll use another name
Stan Chrzanowski, one of my senior engineers. Stan has probably
been offered several times significantly higher salary to go work for a
firm. So, yes, I do experience it. The salaries were competitive in
some areas. Some areas it's a factor of several aspects.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. So the ones now that you
have proposed you need, do you think you'll have as many problems
filing those positions. Do you find it easier to recruit them?
MR. SCHMITT: Ma'am, I expect I will have problems getting
plan reviewers, inspectors because I'm no different than Lee County. I
don't know if it was on the news last night again.
Lee County experiencing the exact same problems. They just
had a recent approval to hire 25 additional folks up there, and they're
now experiencing even more problems because of the volume of work
coming in. So I'm going to be competing against them, and others as
well.
Normally, my inspectors, maybe a lot of those folks will pick up
that are down here maybe as a second career or something. But they
have to be licensed and certified, those type of things. So, yes, it's just
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June 16, 2005
a challenge. I mean, it is a management and leadership challenge
trying to get the right people in, as you all know, in any position.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Where do we go from here?
MR. MUDD: The next item is the coastal manager position.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We didn't make a decision.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. It's on the UFR list. We're going to get to
that. It's at the bottom of the list.
The coastal manager position. Your comments to me were that it
needs to be considered by the TDC prior to BCC policy decision and
I'll get that done over the summer, so September we'll know. If they
say no to it, I'll take it off the list.
Oh, debt service. One of the things that Mr. Smykowski
mentioned to you that the series 2005 gas tax bond issue debt service,
it hadn't been added yet because you hadn't done the final signature. I
hope you have a pen with lots of cartridges.
Okay. Mr. Chairman, but you'll find those things in about eight
days, and when that does then we can officially add that to the budget
because that's just finishing up. And that was a $95,255,000 bondage.
That's the second issue on the gas tax.
The next item was the Goodland Fire MSTU, and the final
resolution on millage. And I want to make sure that we mentioned it
yesterday. It's significant. Right now their millage is around point
four mill. The letter that we received from Marco Island says $2
million, and that will be a significant increase for the folks in
Goodland, if I can't negotiate a better deal for fire service.
The Sheriffs budget changes from this morning. I believe the
Board said that they were looking for based -- and I believe that the
Sheriff s Office representatives that were here this morning basically
said that they would provide written responses to the productivity
committee's recommendation that, Mr. Chairman, you mentioned.
Budget justification Matrix for the future, those were also
mentioned. And I believe there is correspondence with the sheriff that
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June 16, 2005
he would like to look at those particular issues also. And I believe
Commissioner Halas was talking about health insurance, what the
increase is in employee contribution. And the plan and
implementation timetable was also discussed, and that was due out--
that we would receive sometime before the first of September, before
our first budget meeting in September.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. There was an additional
item, Jim, unless you were planning that last bullet would apply to
this. And that was the plan for the step increases for salaries. You'll
recall that I asked the question about how CO LA was going to be
applied, and the sheriffs representatives indicated they were
evaluating a new plan, and they would provide us details concerning
that.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. We'll add that to the particular list.
COMMISSIONER COYLE. Thank you.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, that brings us to the one issue that
-- I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Can we go back?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Can we stay on that. You said
budget justification Matrix for the future.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Actually, yeah, I had meant from
this day forward as soon as we could develop them, but, yes. But
that's the future, I guess. Is that where were you headed?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, yeah, but also -- well,
they do justifications, but the thing that bothers me is the calls for
service. If we can kind of take a look at that. I think we need a -- you
know --
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. If it calls for service and it's service to
the residence and you don't have the -- you don't have the add on-calls
for your in-house folks calling back and forth, and if somehow those
additional calls for service correlate to an increase in road patrol, and
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June 16, 2005
you can make that correlation, those are something that we need to
take a look at. And I believe that's what the chairman and you were
alluding to earlier this morning.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Including the square mileage, the
area of patrol and things like that. We were talking about refinements
on some of those Matrix. And then of course, any others that the
Sheriff s Department thinks might be appropriate --
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir--
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- would be helpful.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And then one thing, that shifting
I don't understand. They have a fixed time off, fixed days instead of
rotating. And what would happen if you would change the hours with
rotating days off instead of fixed days off?
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you.
MR. MUDD: The next item -- can we -- are we prepared to
move to the next item?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We're ready to move to the next
item.
MR. MUDD: The next item is one that I made last because I
knew this would absorb most of the time. Little did I know the marine
agent would absorb most of the time. This has to do with the beach
parking issue. And the reason we need to get it resolved is, right now
the budget, as Ms. Ramsey has presented to you, includes $400,000
for beach stickers. That's $20 a sticker. That's in the budget today.
If this Board decides they don't want to do that, or they don't
want to do the $5 parking, then we need to adjust that budget, and then
you won't have $7.9 million on you for right now, it'll be 7.4. We
need to adjust that. I need to make you aware of that particular issue.
Based on the dialogue that we had yesterday on this issue, we're
all over the place. That's why I thought this would take the longest,
but I'm going to turn this over to Ms. Ramsey, and hopefully she can,
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June 16, 2005
in a very short period of time, 30 seconds, tell you, summarize the
plan, where the shortfalls are, and what the remedies are in order to
make up the shortfalls. Ms. Ramsey, ifyou'll--
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I thought we were so clear
yesterday.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir, every commissioner was clear, and every
commissioner had a different opinion.
MS. RAMSEY: Well, maybe to help expedite it just a little bit is
that, yesterday the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board met and they
discussed this very issue and they have a recommendation. I wasn't at
that meeting because I was here, but I have a park representative that
maybe can tell us what their recommendation is and we can start at
that point as a dialogue element.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: You want to ask your questions
now, gentlemen?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, go ahead. Let's hear it.
Maybe things changed.
MS. TOWNSEND: Good afternoon. Amanda Townsend with
Parks and Recreation. The Parks and Recreation Advisory Board met
yesterday and discussed the various options that have been given to
this Board at length. Their recommendation is to go with option 12 on
that page that is summary of user fee options. That option would keep
the lowest user fee for the Keewaydin Beach Shuttle, and would
charge for a parking permit.
However, the option that you see in number 12 is $20 for a
two-year beach parking permit. The Parks and Recreation Advisory
Board recommends $40 for a two-year permit.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Give us a page number, please.
MS. RAMSEY: There is no real page on this, but if you go to
the public services tab, it's the last three pages, four pages before the
transportation tab.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Did they review some of our
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June 16, 2005
recommendations from yesterday's meeting?
MS. TOWNSEND: Yes. Of course I didn't have them in any
distinct format but we reviewed the discussion that this Board had.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I thought Commissioner Coyle's
idea was pretty good myself.
MS. RAMSEY: What was it?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I have no idea.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It was the first one of the year
and of course the year is not over with, but it was the closer you got to
the beach, you paid for it. The remote parking lot, you said, you
know, those people can go for free. People that want to bring their
vehicle to the beach, they pay. I mean, it kind of made sense as far as
-- and besides charging for the people who take the shuttle.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, I'll tell you -- if I can just
explain a little bit about how I arrived at that proposition. Somebody
had talked about using this Government Center on weekends or
holidays for parking and shuttle to the beach. Now since we're not
spending additional money to create beach parking here, people
shouldn't have to pay a share of the parking here. Because it wasn't
specifically developed for them, but it's just being used temporarily for
them. So they get to use this free and then they take the shuttle to the
beach, and that way they don't have to pay anything.
But if we built a parking facility and we had to take a lot of
money, such as we're going to be doing at Vanderbilt Beach Drive,
and people want to park there, they should pay for that, and also for
the beach end. So that's how I arrived at that. And that's my logic for
saying people can go someplace and park for free, whereas if they go
someplace else, they might have to pay because we had to spend a lot
of money building a parking facility for them.
MS. RAMSEY: If I understand them, Commissioner, that would
be option number three?
MS. TOWNSEND: Yes, inherent in a universal beach -- inherent
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June 16, 2005
in a universal beach parking program, would be a free shuttle. Staff is
really packing those together.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. But this doesn't provide you
the $40 -- or the $20 parking sticker.
MS. RAMSEY. Okay. True.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: So I was trying to pull all this stuff
together. In other words, give residents a discount. Don't charge them
$5 every time they want to come down and park at the charge
facilities.
MS. RAMSEY: Charge them the $20 fee --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Charge them the 20 bucks and then they
get an unlimited parking ticket to that facility. That gets what
Commissioner Coletta was talking about, like our residents deserve
some special consideration. And so they can get this unlimited
parking pass at a huge discount. And then they can use any of these
parking, beach parking facilities that we've developed using the
sticker. But other people would have to pay the $5 per fee.
MS. TOWNSEND: That's what is proposed in option 12.
MS. RAMSEY: Number 12.
MS. TOWNSEND: Exactly what you're saying.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: 12 has $9.
MS. RAMSEY: That's the Keewaydin Shuttle. Keewaydin
shuttle is actually the boat shuttle, which the enhancement that we
talked about, taking a boat over to Keewaydin.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's one way, right?
MS. RAMSEY: Yeah, that's one way.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We've got two Commissioners who
are getting upset because we're not letting them talk.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: You keep shutting my lights off.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: So, Commissioner Coletta, you
were first. You really were.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, I thought you were, sir,
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June 16, 2005
but I'll go.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: You're first. Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: You control the hammer.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Once again, I do believe there
should be a public benefit for the residents of Collier County, and I
think we've done remarkably well in providing that benefit in the past
by giving them a beach sticker at no cost. What we can do to cover
the cost on that, in other words, the revenue that you are not going to
generate, the $660,000, which I agree is a lot of money.
But, once again, it's one of the few benefits we do offer the
residents that live inland that want to be able to get to the beach.
Raise the cost for the parking to $6 not $5 and go with the heavy end
for the beach experience to go to Keewaydin Island. Recognize that is
a very special amenity, and beach passes don't apply unless you have a
parking lot there. But to use the shuttle you have to pay the price if
you want to enj oy that.
If you come up with off area parking, I still think the residents
should be able to ride free, maybe just show their driver's license or
their local ID, and everyone else would pay $5 or $6. That would be
my recommendation.
Let's do this. I don't want to use the expression on the backs of
our visitors, but I'd like to see consideration made, every consideration
possible made for the residents that live here.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Commissioner Coletta still
opposes everything we say.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, not everything.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Commissioner Halas.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Say adjourned, I'll agree.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: How much a year do we pay the
City of Naples for beach access?
MS. RAMSEY: About $400,000.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: $400,000. What about the other
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June 16, 2005
beach accesses that are in the County? There's a fee on that, I would
assume of maintenance of those areas. I really think that I don't see
anything really wrong with everybody paying because we've got some
huge problems that we've got to confront in the future, and that's for
additional beach access. And I really don't see anything wrong with
$20 for a sticker. Whether, you know -- maybe it's more for a
non-resident, but for our residents, I don't think the residents will
really kick up that big of a fuss if the money is used in an area to
provide even more beach access in the future, and that's what we're
really striving for is, what are we going to do to meet the needs in the
future.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Can we take a vote on this?
MR. MUDD: Sir, if I can get somebody to make a proposal, it
would be great.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'll make a motion that we use
number 12 as the plan to follow. And for people who do not have the
privilege because they're not residents of Collier County to have a
parking permit, then they can pay for their parking.
MR. MUDD: $5, ma'am?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: $5.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'll second that.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: $5. That's not number 12.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. That's over and above 12. This
just says that you get a free parking permit for the $20. But I'm saying
anybody who doesn't have that, they get to pay their $5 every time
they park.
MS. TOWNSEND: Yes, inherent in option 12 is a $5 daily fee
for non-sticker holders.
MS. RAMSEY: And, Commissioner, you don't mean to park at
the shuttle element, you mean this to be a free shuttle? Anybody who
takes the shuttle would be free? Just a clarification.
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June 16, 2005
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. Thank you. I'll include that in
my motion.
MS. RAMSEY: And if I can just point out one thing. You'll
notice that there's $134,000 surplus on the bottom of that particular
element which, if you go back, we took the six items, we added them
up and came up with the cost. The cost of doing the six is $525,000.
We'll have $134,000 surplus off after doing this particular plan. The
item that's still kind of sitting out there is that you still have $400,000
in the current budget. And so I don't want you to duplicate the two,
the $400,000 between doing this operating cost and what sits in the
budget currently.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: But that 400,000 will still be used to
get these beach parking stickers, right?
MS. RAMSEY: Well, that and all these other things that we're
talking about on this particular page. And the only reason I bring that
up is that if you wanted to bring something closer to what the pay rep
recommended, a $30 fee or something to add some additional dollars
to that surplus to help you out on the other side of our operating
budget. I just mentioned that as an opportunity.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: So, in other words, let me see if I
understand what you just said. Instead of paying the City of Naples
$400,000 to have these beach stickers, right?
MS. RAMSEY: No, we would still continue to do that.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: But if you're saying $30, then we
would pay them extra money?
MS. RAMSEY: No. The $400,000 that sits in the budget
currently is to help offset the expanded North Naples Regional Park
and all the other 001 fund numbers that we brought forward to you.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'm sorry. I'm getting -- you said
there's two $400,000?
MS. RAMSEY: Yes, that's correct. And I just wanted you to be
aware of the fact that when you choose this one here, you're still going
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June 16, 2005
to have to supplement the existing budget with $400,000 or $370,000
because there is a delta there.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: For the City of Naples?
MS. RAMSEY: No, for the operating budget.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: How did you tie in the North Naples
Regional Park to that?
MS. RAMSEY: Staff came to you with a proposal of about $2.5
million and expended related to the park with about $1.4 million in
revenue. Part of that revenue is $400,000 for $20 parking stickers. It's
included in your budget currently for $20,000. I just didn't want you to
confuse that this same dollars can't be used twice. So, if you use it in
the current budget, you don't have it here. So you're going to have to
--
COMMISSIONER FIALA: So how again did the $400,000 that
we're getting in beach stickers get into the North Collier Park.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: This is getting confusing.
MS. RAMSEY: They're in your current -- they were a
recommendation from staff to charge $20 for a beach parking sticker
in our operating budget. It's already in the operating budget. Okay.
MS. TOWNSEND: However, there is not -- okay. I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Can I try?
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, you're doing really good. And I
believe your recommendation is fine, and I will get with staff after this
is over and get those particular details ironed out before we do the
final budget in September.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Just very briefly, I want to
see if I can get something fixed in my mind. The permit fee revenue
is going to be $660,000, right? Under that particular plan we just
talked about, right?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes, sir. That's what that chart
says.
MS. RAMSEY: Yes.
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June 16, 2005
MR. MUDD: That's what the chart says. And I believe there's a
$5 parking fee that's not on this chart that you don't see those
particular numbers. I need to get with staff to work out those particular
details.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: There's additional revenue there
that we haven't --
MR. MUDD: I believe there is. And I believe Ms. Ramsey was
right when I mentioned to you, their budget has $400,000 from the
$20 fees in it already. Okay. And I need to work on this chart a little
bit with staff in order to get you the final detail.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: If you'll get us the actual numbers,
the real numbers, and then we can make a final determination later,
but this should be sufficient.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. I need some guidance on what you --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Assuming that this motion is going to
pass.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: That's $5 for guest parking that you
don't have in here --
MR. MUDD: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: But we have a figure. Okay then.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We have a motion to go with 12
plus the guest parking at $5. Is there a second?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I did second it.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. You did. We have a second. Did
you want to --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Is the way this is structured
now, this wouldn't require any funds from ad valorem to offset the
cost?
Page 94
June 16, 2005
MS. RAMSEY: Yes, sir. Yes, sir.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. You have on your UFR list, you have $3
million, and when we get to it, you'll see beach parking fee beach
access. If you looked at Ms. Ramsey's chart yesterday, $1.3 million
leveraged over 20 years, gets her enough money to do the $18 million
worth of stuff, minus $3.5 million. That $3.5 million is on your UFR
list to make up that issue.
If that is not an approved budget item this year, if we don't have
the dollars, Ms. Ramsey is going to scale back those six particular
items, come back to the Board and tell you which ones are going to be
able to be done this year and which ones we're not going to be able to
do.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: May I suggest, and this is a
suggestion -- I'm still opposed to this for the simple fact that I don't
think it's fair to make them pay $20 for the stickers.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: They don't have to pay, do they?
That's part of the $400,000, right?
MS. RAMSEY: No.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: You're voting to pay for the
stickers.
MS. RAMSEY: Everyone will pay $20 to get a sticker.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: $20 to get a sticker. They really don't
have to pay for a sticker.
MS. RAMSEY: But they don't pay the $5.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: They don't have to pay for a sticker
at all --
MS. RAMSEY: -- if they don't want to.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: If they don't want to, they don't
have to buy a sticker. They can go to the beach and pay $5. And if
they only go twice a year, they'll pay $10.
MS. RAMSEY: Or they can take the shuttle.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Or they can take the shuttle and then
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June 16, 2005
they can go free.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Or they don't have to go.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Or they don't have to go at all, like Mr.
Henning.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: He's going to go fishing.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: See, I thought, somehow I thought
--
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I don't know.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I don't know, the $400,000 beach
sticker that we put aside, I thought that that covered that. Why would
we then have an a,dditional charge?
MS. RAMSEY: Because the city is still allowing us to park at
their metered areas for free and we're basically making the delta
difference between their revenue and their expenses to the city, and it
costs about $400,000 a year to do that.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: But we already have that in our
budget, right?
MS. RAMSEY: That's correct, that's one of the $400,000 that we
have in the budget.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So very simple, you vote for a
$20 sticker, or you're not voting for a $20 sticker, anything else fits
around it.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, I'm not going to understand it
until I get the figures. Okay. If you can work out the figures, I might
understand it, but I don't and Commissioner Fiala doesn't, but let's
vote for it anyway.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, yeah, but I wanted to keep the
beach parking stickers at the $400,000 and not have people pay
anything.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Well, you made the motion for a
$20 sticker.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I thought this $20 beach parking
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June 16, 2005
permit that anybody could buy, but those that qualify already got the
beach sticker for the $400,000. I'm afraid I was just totally confused.
Being that I don't understand this, I need to withdraw my motion
because nothing is clear to me anymore, I guess.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'll pick up the second.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Well, no, that was the primary motion.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Oh, it was.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'll make the motion that we have a
$20 fee and that all nonresidents have to pay $5 at a parking position.
Okay. And that the Keewaydin, if they want to take the Keewaydin
Beach Shuttle, it'll be as Stated in number nine here which is -- or,
excuse me, number 12, which is a $9 charge. Are we clear on this?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, what is the beach sticker for
then?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: The beach sticker is just a revenue
generated to offset --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No, I mean, the $400,000 we pay
and we get a sticker.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: The $400,000 is what we pay to the
City of Naples.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Right, and we get a sticker for
what? What is that sticker good for now?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Well, you can either park at Naples
or you can park at any place in the County where there's -- if there is
adequate parking.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: But we're paying $20 for that. I'm
sorry. I'm getting way confused. I'll talk about it afterwards. I mean,
if you're already getting it, then what are you paying for?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: No, we're not getting it.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Than what are we paying the
$400,000 for?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Who's on first and what's on
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June 16, 2005
second.
MS. TOWNSEND: Perhaps I can clarify.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, right now the beach sticker,
anybody that's a resident of Collier County can apply to go at parks
and rec in several locations and they can show that they own property
in Collier County and they can receive a beach sticker, okay, for two
years that has an expiration date two years down the pike.
What Ms. Ramsey is proposing and staff, based on six items that
you would link as a Board, based on your workshop that you had here
just a couple weeks ago, you would like to put in the, you know,
Keewaydin shuttle, you'd like to have a motorized shuttle to go from
off site parking to the beach at several locations, and some other
issues, beach parking pavers and things like that at different locations
up in the Vanderbilt Beach area.
In order to do that, there is a capital program, okay, to the tune of
about $18 million, and that's in your packet in the back of the public
services division budget. Marla has $1.3 million that isn't bonded
coming out ofTEC. She bonds those items, she can get about $15
million against that 18. That's 3.5 short.
N ow the issue is the operational funds in order to do those six
initiatives and how do you funds those. The present way, it doesn't
cover the present budget that Marla has. It doesn't cover those
particular costs.
So staff went through different initiatives, or different ways to
funds those initiatives as it ran through some of which was just to do
the $5 fee for everybody to park. The other one was to charge $20 to
the residents, people that own property in Collier County for a
two-year sticker instead of having it for free. That would raise a
certain amount of revenue in order to be used against the operational
costs.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: So then why are we paying
$400,000?
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June 16, 2005
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Let me try it this way.
MR. MUDD: Ma'am.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: See if I understand it.
MR. MUDD: In order to use --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Jim, you're talking about so many
stories, it's hard to get right onto the subject.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Let me try for just a second and see
if I understand this. We sell parking stickers to the residents. We get
the money that they pay us. That parking sticker allows a person to go
into the -- go anywhere. Let's say go into the City of Naples and park
free at any of the City of Naples pay parking spaces.
MS. RAMSEY: Correct.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Now because we are permitting people
to park free in the City's parking spaces, we give them $400,000 a
year to compensate them for the loss in revenue that they incur
because we're selling free stickers for their parking meters.
MS. RAMSEY: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. So we're not eligible for a
free sticker anymore. Our sticker will cost $20.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Twenty bucks.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I see.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And you have to pay the $400,000
to the City of Naples to compensate them for the loss of revenue
which they would experience with the stickers, but we're doing that
now.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, you said that very clearly,
except that now you're saying that we won't get a free sticker anymore
from here on in? We pay $20 for a sticker if we're a County resident?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Everybody.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Now a city resident.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And we pay the City of Naples
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June 16, 2005
because we have taken on this responsibility ourselves, but we still
owe to have that privilege?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And if you look just at the figures
here --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. You said that a lot more
clearly.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- yeah, that will generate $660,000, but
it's going to cost $525,000 to do it because we've got to pay for the
administration of the stickers that we sell.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Right. I understand.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: So, we're still making $154,000, right?
Or $134,000.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: But we don't have free parking
anymore now, we have $20 parking?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: For two years.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, it comes out of taxes.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Oh, I'm sorry. Commissioner Coletta.
Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: This $660,000, that's per year or
two years?
MS. RAMSEY: The stickers are a two-year program.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So it's $330,000 a year, that we
expect -- I'm sorry, are you shaking your head?
MS. RAMSEY: We anticipate we'll sell about 33,000 stickers
annually --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Oh, annually. And out of that,
administration cost is how much?
MS. RAMSEY: We have costs of $525,000. That includes the
Keewaydin shuttle, the delta, the gulf shores facilities.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Oh, okay. In other words--
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June 16, 2005
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It helps offset the costs.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. In other words, your
administration cost is not just handling the stickers themselves. It's
running the whole program?
MS. RAMSEY: That's correct. All of the -- the six elements that
you asked to --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I understand.
MS. RAMSEY: That you asked us to bring back--
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And I understand. I think that
there are a lot of good things in this plan. I'm still opposed to the $20
sticker fee. Did I ever say that before?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: No, no, that's the first I've heard
you say that. I would never have guessed.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I know it comes as a shock.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I'm shocked. Okay. We have a
motion by Commissioner Halas, seconded by Commissioner Henning.
There is certainly no more discussion.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: What is this $20 going to go for
now?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: All in favor, please signify by
saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Any opposed by like sound.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. It passes three to two with
Commissioner Fiala and Commissioner Coletta oppose it. Okay.
Thank you very much.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, this brings us to the last item, and
that's consideration of the UFR list. If you would turn to 810, I believe
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June 16, 2005
you received a new list. Mike, if you take these up and Commissioner
Henning hasn't seen them. You already have them?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's on the UFR list. Can I add
some things on?
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir, we can add some things to this list.
Commissioner, what I would say to you is, there are some unknowns
that are -- that we don't have specifics on. I mentioned one of them
yesterday was the zoo property and exactly what the final agreed upon
amount will be.
You will notice on this UFR list that I have $7 million added to
that particular item. I went back and talked to Chief Smith just a
second ago and I said, did we cover everything based on what you
said this morning? And he said yup. He said, but I sure would like
you to add $1.5 million for the security system in the old jail on that
UFR list, and I said, sure I will. I'll get it added to that particular case.
But what I'd like to talk to Commissioners about is, you're going
to have another opportunity at this particular list in September. Okay?
And we will have those particular unknowns and they will become
known at that time. So we'll know exactly where we stand on how
much money is needed for some particular item.
I would say today, if you have items that aren't general fund in
nature, and! or the unincorporated general fund or you have an item
there that looks like it's going to bring in a revenue that exceeds the
amount of money that it's going to cost, those would be appropriate
things that you might want to add in the general fund, or in the
unincorporated, or whichever one that you would like. And then if
there's something that is in a general fund or unincorporated general
fund that has to do with millage that you would like to add, those
would be good things and appropriate things to do, but this is the last
time you're going to see this, is what I'm trying to tell you.
You're going to see this again in September, minus whatever you
approve. And I believe there's going to be some rather large ticket
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June 16, 2005
items that we're going to have some surety on that this Board will
probably want to make a decision on that might be a higher priority
than other things on this list.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: So what you're saying to us is, we should
keep the list for consideration, but we shouldn't make any final
decision until we really get an idea of what a final budget is going to
look like, right?
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. I would, if you're going to spend, spend
small at this particular juncture instead of going after the big bites of
the apples, because if you do, you might find out in September you
wished you didn't.
CHAIRMAN COYLE okay. Well, I'm going to ask you, once
we have the Commissioners ask their questions, I think I'm going to
ask you to guide us through the expenditures, unfunded requirements
that are likely to be very, very smart decisions with respect to
potential pay backs.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And -- but Commissioner Henning has
some questions.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Can we put on the UFR list
rebate to taxpayers?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: How much?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: $50 million. However much we
have encumbered at this time.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Seven million?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, you got -- is that general
fund and 111 fund, seven million?
MR. MUDD: That's general fund, sir. And then the
unincorporated is $900,991 ?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I think that's a fair question.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I've got an idea. Why don't we allocate
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June 16, 2005
-- Greg, are you listening? Why don't we allocate the amount of
money to be rebated back to the taxpayers that the Sheriff s Office
deletes from their budget.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, I will add the rebate to taxpayers
on the particular issue in case you want to do a rollback of some sort.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: But we -- once again, Commissioner
Henning, you're not suggesting we try to do that right now, are you?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: We want to see what the final budget
turns out to be, right?
MR. MUDD: And I will tell you, once you set your millage on
the last meeting in July, you can always make it less, you can't make it
more. And there are some folks out there in Florida right now that
made it less and wish to God right now that they had left it alone or
made it more. So your option, if you're at millage neutral, and that's
the way you want to carry it on the 26th of July, we come forward
with that, our recommendation is you leave it there and you can
always make it less, but you can never pump it up after you made that
decision.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: We don't know what might happen with
hurricanes at that time. It's really wise for to us wait until the last
minute.
Commissioner Halas.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah. I was just going to bring in
that, yes, we've had a real positive high spike this year. Something
that was somewhat unanticipated. I think what we need to do is wait
until we find out exactly what we have on a UFR list.
I also would like to bring up at this time, and the County
Manager keeps indicating that this Caribbean Gardens issue is
looming before us. It's my understanding that we gave direction to
that Blue Ribbon Committee to go out and start soliciting for private
donations towards this. And I'm not sure how they're doing on their
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June 16, 2005
fund raising, but I would hope that that would be something that was
going to offset, because my understanding was that when we
originally put this on the ballot, it was something that we did at the
last minute and that we were somewhat assured that there would be
fund raising taking place, and that whatever was the offset of what the
committee couldn't raise, that we would fund up to $40 million.
But, we're anticipating that we are going to get revenues
generated from the public in regards to this. So, I hope that there is
something being worked in the background here in regards to
addressing this issue, especially if it's going to exceed anything above
$40 million.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thank you, Commissioner Halas. Could
I just interj ect one thing about that?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Fifty seconds.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. There are opportunities for
grants. How does that play into the ability to purchase something? I
mean, grant applications take time. How do you deal with that? I
mean, is there a good easy way of dealing with that situation?
MS. RAMSEY: The best grant is the Florida Community Trust
Grant. And we are looking to apply for that grant next year. Once
you own the land, you can apply for $9.9 millions dollars. If you don't
own the land, you can apply for $6.6 million. The committee chose to
allow the water park to apply this year, so they can get $9.9 and bring
the Caribbean Gardens in next year. So it would come in as an after.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: But how do we work it into the
purchasing process? If we don't get the grant until after we own it,
how did we get to own it if we need the grant to meet purchase price?
MS. RAMSEY: We would be looking at probably bonding the
full amount and then using the grant to pay it down. That would be
my answer.
MR. MUDD: Yeah, but you only have -- see, that's why I'm
talking about this particular money. You only have bonding authority
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June 16, 2005
based on referendum for $40 million. If it comes in higher than that,
you're going to have to have alternative revenue sources to bring that
package together in order make the purchase. That's why I'm being
very careful with you as far as using a big portion of this dollar
amount because you might need it to leverage maybe a commercial
paper product, or whatever, because these are reoccurring dollars so
you could purchase that property if it comes in higher than $40
million. And I believe it will.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. All right. Good.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I've got one last question I'd like to
ask the County Manager. What are our re-occurring funds per year?
Is that the bottom line that we have here, 39, on this UFR list? What
are our re-occurring funds? Can you give me some idea?
MR. MUDD: Reoccurring funds are your ad valorem.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: What's the amount?
MR. MUDD: $7.8 millions is reoccurring that you have left over
out of this budget.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. Is it the Florida Land Trust
that bought the Margate property?
MS. RAMSEY: Trust for public lands, well, yes. Florida
Community Trust helped us with the grant of $1.8 million.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: But there we didn't have to own the
land first, right?
MS. RAMSEY: Yes. Well, we actually did when we -- in order
to receive the dollars, yes.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. That's the same one you
were just telling Commissioner Coyle about?
MS. RAMSEY: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: One and the same? Okay. Are
there any other grants that also we're contemplating?
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June 16, 2005
MS. RAMSEY: Nothing to that extent. There's a parks and
recreation grant that's out there with a max of $200,000.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And we do have people that wanted
to buy sections of that, right?
MS. RAMSEY: Well, we do have a conservation in Collier that's
interested in part of that.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. Okay. Fine. So we do have
some other funding sources. I just -- but that isn't the reason -- what
the heck did I have my button on for.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I can turn it off.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, I know. I got so involved in
this. Excuse me. I wanted to talk about the tax facility. Are we ready
to -- I see that here we have some funding that we yet need. We've
allocated some money over the last year or year-and-a-half.
MR. FEDER: We're not fully funded, but we're moving quickly.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: But do we have a place to put it
now?
MR. FEDER: Yes. We've identified some property on
commercial, and we're pursuing along with our real property, the
acquisition of that property, taking a design that the Sheriff s Office is
going to use on the facility. That design to expedite and we still need
some additional funding. That's why it's on the UFR list.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. So we're ready to go. So if
we approve this, then we can get -- we can move forward and get the
thing taken care of.
MR. FEDER: Yes.
MR. MUDD: Yes, ma'am. We have enough money basically to
purchase the property -- purchase the land.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: But just not to build the facility,
right?
MR. MUDD: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. Thank you.
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June 16, 2005
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Mr. Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes. I just wanted to pick on
the comment there of a rebate for the taxpayers that was mentioned
earlier by Commissioner Henning and later Commissioner Halas. If
we do get to that point -- and I'm sorry, Commissioner Coyle, too. So
we can give everybody a little credit going down. Commissioner
Fiala, and if you didn't say it, I'll say it for you.
It's always great to be able to give something back to our
taxpayers who have been donating to this County for a long time.
However, when we get to that point, we realize that we do have
excess funds that we'd like to turn into this rebate, we give serious
consideration to possibly rebating the $660,000 for the beach stickers.
That would make sense first rather than give a rebate on the
backs of the people that would like to have a free beach sticker. It's
just a little point for thought. We're a long ways off before we get to
the point where we find out we have any excess funds, but I'm sure
this won't slip my mind and I'll probably remember to bring it up
again for the discussion.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Comes as no surprise. Okay. Where do
we go from here? Are we finished?
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, I'd like -- I'm not finished. I'd like
to go down the list real quick to identify those things that you talked
about that, let's call them, easy marks.
The first is the Human Services Department is about one, two,
three, four, five, six down the list -- excuse me, five down the list. It
says patient coordinator.
Mr. Berry Williams talked about that particular position. Total
cost is $58,100. The offsetting revenue from the State and the Feds is
$55,900. Net cost to the general fund is $2,200. I believe that --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yes, that's a go.
MR. MUDD: Do I have three nods?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yes, you do.
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June 16, 2005
MR. MUDD: Okay. Then we'll add that to the budget. The next
is Park and Recreations Department, Vanderbilt Beach Parking garage
attendant. Ms. Ramsey, can you tell me exactly how many attendants
we're talking about?
MS. RAMSEY: Four part-time.
MR. MUDD: Okay. Four part-time. Total FTE?
MS. RAMSEY: Two.
MR. MUDD: Two. So they're working halftime. For four they
basically cost us $79,000 for those four part-time, which is equivalent
to two FTE. They're offsetting revenue by the collections they'll get
from the garages, $181,100. The net cost to the general fund is
$102,000 to the good. It's a profit.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: That's a go, guys and ladies?
(All affirm.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
MR. MUDD: I would say that the next one is not necessarily an
easy mark, because it's still $87,000, and I'd like to defer that until
September even though it does have some offsetting revenue.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes.
MR. MUDD: And then I'll go down to the coastal zone manager.
I'm down in 111 now. I've gone completely off the general fund and
I'm now down in the 111, that coastal zone manager. I have to bring
that to the TDC so that is not an issue at this juncture. But we do have
one at Parks and Rec. It's a program leader for Eagle Lakes
Community Park. And the net cost is -- well, the net cost is $49,300.
There is an offsetting revenue for that program leader. Net cost
general fund is $25,300. Do you want to wait until September?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: What's that person going to do? I'm
working off a different sheet than you are, nevertheless.
MS. RAMSEY: I can help you with that. At the Eagle Lakes
Community Park we don't have a staff person there, other than the
maintenance gentleman. When the maintenance gentleman leaves
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June 16, 2005
about 3: 00 in the afternoon, we would like to have someone in the
park when the children are coming over from after school so we can
do some programming with. Helps us with safety issues in the park.
It gives the park a County presence in that location.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, I would say yes.
CHAIRMAN COYLE Okay. We have three nods for that one.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, then I'd like to go down to
Community Development Fund 113 and 131. Mr. Schmitt had 13
FTE that were on his expanded list. He had nine that didn't make the
cut line, but that he could fund within these two funds. They equate to
a 113 fund five, inspectors for building review and permitting. Total
budget on that on an annual basis is $421,500.
And then down in development services fund, 131, he has two
planners and one assistant. Annual price for that is $212,600, and one
engineering technician, an annual cost of $60,000. And total cost in
fund 131 on these positions is $272,600. Those particular funds are
not general funds or 111. They are basically permit fees, plan review
fees that come in to Mr. Schmitt. And my recommendation to you,
Commissioners, if Mr. Schmitt has those particular funds
available, that he goes out and starts to advertise for those positions
now so that he can at least have them on Board September and
October.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: They're covered by your user fees, right?
MR. SCHMITT: Yes.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: There's no impact on general fund at all?
MR. SCHMITT: No impact on general funds.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I think you have three nods for that.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, that's all I have, as far as easy
mark supposedly on this un-financed requirement list, and I would
recommend that you wait for additional additions or rebates or
whatever until September.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Any questions by
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June 16, 2005
Commissioners?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. It appears that we are finished.
We are adjourned.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir.
*****
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 3 :00 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
'1uJ- W. c+
FRED COYLE, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST: ,.:"',".
DWIGHJ~li..~j3~<<I(, CLERK
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These minlifeS~proved by the Board on CT~ ~t;" 7...00S , as
presented V' or as corrected .
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT
REPORTING SERVICES, INC., BY DANIELLE AHREN.
Page 111
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