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CCPC Minutes 08/16/2018August 16,2018 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF T}IE COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION Naples, Florida" August 16,2018 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, thatthe Collier County Planning Commission, in and forthe County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Govemment Complex, East Naples, Florida with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: Mark Strain Stan Chrzanowski Patrick Dearborn Diane Ebert Karen Homiak Joe Schmitt ABSENT: Edwin Fryer ALSO PRESENT: Raymond V. Bellows, ZonngManager James Sabo, Principal Planner Jeffiey Klatzkow, County Attorney Heidi Ashton-Cicko, Managing Assistant County Attorney Tom Eastman, School District Representative Page I of38 August 16,2018 PROCEEDINGS CTIAIRMAN STRAIN: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Thursday, August 16th meeting of the Collier County Planning Commission. If everybody will please rise for Pledge of Allegiance. (The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.) CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you. Will the secretary please do the roll call. COMMISSIONER EBERT: Yes. Good morning. Mr. Eastman? MR. EASTMAN: Here. COMMISSIONER EBERT: Mr. Chrzanowski? COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Here. COMMISSIONEREBERT: Mr. Fryer is absent. Mrs. Ebert is here. Commissioner Strain? CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Here. COMMISSIONER EBERT: Ms. Homiak? COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Here. COMMISSIONER EBERT: Mr. Schmitt? COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Here. COMMISSIONER EBERT: And, Mr. Dearborn? COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: GIad to be here, CHAIRMAN STRAIN: And Mr. Fryer's absence is excused. He had to be out of the area for a while, so he let me know that ahead of time. Then we'll move to addenda to the agenda. There's no changes that I know of to the agenda. Does staffhave any? Ray? You can shake your head. MS. ASHTON: Mr. Chair, while you're talking to Ray, could I just let IT know that my computer's not working, so I won't be able to follow along electronically, which is why I have to get a paper copy, by the way. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Do you have any changes to the agenda? MR. BELLOWS: No changes to the agenda. And we have Mike Bosi helping to track down somebody from IT. CI{AIRMAN STRAIN: Yeah. I saw Mike Cox here earlier, so hopefully one of them will stop back down. Planning Commission absences. Our next meeting is September 6th. Does anybody here know if they're not going to make it to the September 6th meeting? (No response.) CI{AIRMAN STRAIN: That means we'll have a quorum. Okay. That takes us to approval of minutes. The electronic minutes that are sent out were for July 19th, 2018. Are there any changes by the Planning Commission? Corrections? If none, is there a motion to approve? COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: So moved. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: By Pafick. Seconded by. COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Seconded. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Karen. Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN STRAIN: All in favor, signifr by saying aye. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Aye. COMMISSIONER EBERT: Aye. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Aye. COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Aye. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Aye. Page 2 of38 August 16,2018 COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN STRAN: Anybody opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN STRAN: Motion carries l-0 -- 6-0. BCC report and recaps, Ray? They're not here, right? MR. BELLOWS: That's correct. They're still on vacation. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. So there's no report. That takes me to chairman's report. I've got some discussion that we'll have in front of -- before a couple of our actions today, but I'll wait and discuss that at that point. *'t({'And we'll move into our -- well, there's no consent agenda, so that takes us to our first of four advertised public hearings. The first two are for the same activity. It's called the Seed to Table commercial subdistrict and the Seed to Table CPUD for a parking lot. That location is at Livingston Road and Immokalee Road. I'll read off the numbers. The first item -- and we'll hear them concurrently and vote on them separately. The first is for the small-scale Comprehensive Plan Amendment. It's PL20170003768/CPSS20l8-1, and the other one is PUDZ-PL20170003166. Now, all those wishing to testiry on this item, please rise to be sworn in by the court reporter. So if there's members of the audience here who are going to speak, please stand up now so that you can be swom in. You can always decline speaking when we get to that point, but if you think you're going to speak, it would be better to stand up now. (The speakers were duly swom and indicated in the affirmative.) CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you. We'll start with disclosures from the Planning Commission. We'll start with Tom on the end. MR. EASTMAN: None. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Stan. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: None. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Diane. COMMISSIONER EBERT: Just staff. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Which brings it to me. I have had quite a few conversations with various people, some from the neighborhood, and the applicant. I also reviewed the minutes -- the notes from the NIM, and I listened to parts of it. In response to those, I had more meetings with the applicant because some of the things that were pointed out at the NIM needed to be incorporated into the PUD. And they have been -- based on discussions with the applicant, they're going to be talking about those today. One item in particular that I asked the applicant and they did a good job in changing it, the Traffic Impact Statement that was supplied for this PUD was actually for another PUD. The two PUDs are not connected in regards to how they're being rezoned. And I asked that the TIS, the extracted parts, be made, and we have a TIS dedicated to this PUD. The applicant has done that, and they're prepared to dispense it today. They also got it to our Transportation Departmen! and Mike Sawyer's here to acknowledge that it meets their requirements and they support it. So with those disclosures, that's it for now. And we'll go to Karen next. COMMISSIONERHOMIAK: I spoke with Mr. Mulhere. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Joe? COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: None. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Patrick? COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: None. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Oh, and I - besides the staft I did speak with Tony Pires as well. Tony had done some request for records from - or public records request, and I had to participate and supply a bunch of records for that as well. So with that, we'll move into presentation by the applicant. MR. MULHERE: Thank you. Good morning. For the record, Bob Mulhere here on behalf of the Page 3 of38 August 16,2018 applicant. Jim Banks is handing out that information that you referenced, Mr. Strain. With me this moming is Rich Yovanovich and Bryan Milk, and I think Alfie Oakes is on his way, but I don't see him in the audience. I think probably you all know where the subject site is located, but on the northwest quadrant of Livingston and Immokalee, actually just north of Piper Boulevard. As the Chairman indicated, there's two companion petitions. One is a small-scale amendment which covers 6.33 acres. This slide right here shows you the future land-use district that covers that properly today, and we're changing that to allow the commercial use of the parking. The other item is, of course, the PUD rezone. This is the language for the Comprehensive Plan amendment that staffhas reviewed and, actually, this is the preferred format for that language that staffhas prepared, and I am unaware of any changes to that language since that staffreport was issued or any need to change that language; however, there are some changes to the PUD that the chairman referred to. And having some discussions with some members of the Planning Commission, a couple of changes were suggested, and we had no objection. MS. ASHTON-CICKO: Excuse me, Bob. May I have a copy? Because I'm not seeing this language. MR. MULHERE: I have a copy - MS. ASHTON-CICKO: I need a copy of your package. MR. MIILI{ERE: I have a copy of the PowerPoint, if that helps. MS. ASHTON-CICKO: Well, I can't read the language from here -- MR. MULIIERE: I don't have a copy of the package, so... MS. ASHTON-CICKO: - in the context of how it's going to fit. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Well, I can : that is - that paragraph that he added was taken directly out of the staffreport. I think it was Page 3 or 4 or 5. I gave Bob that information, and that kind of summarizes the accessibility on Piper Boulevard to the CAT bus only coming in as an entry, not an exit. There will be no exiting traffic on Piper. That was committed to in the staffreport, and they'll have it incorporated into the PTID. So, Heidi, it's in the staffreport. If you've got that you'll -- MR. MULI{ERE: Yep. I think Heidi can follow the PowerPoint that I just gave her which has the text ofthe changes. So on -- under the PUD permitted uses, Tract P, parking, A, it had read, "public parking for uses of the Collier Area Transit "CAT" Park and Ride program. MR. KLATZKOW: You know, this has got to stop. If you're amending a PUD, okay, there's something called email, and there's something called attachments, and you can send it to us, all right. This is not the first time this has happened that we've seen changes, you know, made at the Planning Commission, all right. So as a courtesy, I am asking for the last time, when you are amending a PUD, send us a courtesy copy by email of what you're doing. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Well, out of fairness to the applicant, Jeff, yesterday, late I had a conversation -- MR. KLATZKOW: And that's fine. He could have sent it afterwards. If he had time to do a PowerPoint, he had time to copy and send it to us. That's all Im saying. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: This just -- this was a clarification of issues already presented in the staff report. MR. KLATZKOW: And we're the ones who are signing offfor legal sufficiency on all ordinances, all right. What I'm asking, as a courtesy, okay, if you've got time to put it in a PowerPoint, you've got time to send it to Heidi and me. That's all I'm asking. MS. ASHTON-CICKO: And I don't read the staffreport as an internal document for clarity and consistency. I'm looking for errors and conflicts in their staff report, but that's their analysis. That's not the official document that's going to become the law. CIIAIRMAN STRAIN: Go ahead, Bob. Page 4 of38 August 16,2018 MR. MULHERE: Once again, I find myself in a position ofjust accepting that. I appreciate it, and I apologize. This was at the last minute. I don't think they're that substantive, but anyway... Under Tract P, principal uses, we've added that language that you see in red. The buses -- and this just clarifies the operational aspects of the CAT bus. And this came out of the staffreport and, as I said, in meeting with some members of the Planning Commission, it was suggested that we put this language into the PUD. It says, "The buses will enter the parking area from Piper Boulevard and through Tract U. The Piper Boulevard" -- I'm sorr5z. There's a misspelled word there. Ill add the other C. And for some reason it doesn't come up on spell check. But anyway -- "Piper Boulevard access to the parking area will be controlled with a gate system. Only CAT vehicles, county utility vehicles, FPL utility vehicles, and emergency vehicles will be able to access the parking area through Tract U. The CAT buses will circulate to the north end of the parking lot where the Park and Ride pickup is located. The buses will then exit tuming right onto Livingston Road southbound." As I understand it, this language was agreed to befween a conversation with Mr. Strain and Michelle Amold, and I was asked to put it into the PUD. MS. ASHTON-CICKO: Because they also may be entering and exiting on Livingston Road so, I mean, there's more than one option here. But any -- you know, just saying. MR. MULHERE: Well, we could qualify that saying "with respect to any buses entering offof Piper." MR. KLATZKOW: I'm just going to say this just so everybody understands, okay: This is not happening again. The next time we see changes on the fly like this, we're continuing the hearing, all right? CHAIRMAN STRAN: Jeff, staffsends out the -- (Multiple speakers speaking.) MR. KLATZKOW: No. The next time I see changes -- the next time I see changes to a PUD on the fly like this without my office being copied, we are going to not sigr offon this, and we will continue the item. This thing has been going on for months and months and months and months. This is not a new item, Mark, all righq and not for nothing. If you're going to meet the applicant the day before, that's fine. There's no harm in us getting a copy overnighg in the morning, whatever, so we can review it, okay. Our name's going on this, and two years from now if something about this is wrong, none of this conversation that you had with him is going to matter. It's going to be why didn't the County Attorney do a decentjob at reviewing the PIID, all right. Not for nothing the public has the right to review the PUD as well as. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: So if this board from now on needs stipulations and changes, we're supposed to continue -- MR. KLATZKOW: I can do that. I understand that, but this is beforehand. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Last night. MR. KLATZKOW: This is beforehand, all right. And the public -- CFIAIRMAN STRAIN: This is something that was problematic for the neighborhood. I wanted it locked in -- (Multiple speakers speaking.) MR. KLATZKOW: Mark,I understand whatyou're saying. All I needed was an email. All I needed was a courtesy email. Didn't get it, all right. It's not the first time this has happened. This is happening again and again and again, and I'm saying it now stops. This is the last time we're doing this, okay. If there are going to be changes beforehand, we're going to review it. And if we don't get the courtesy of an email on this, we're going to ask that the thing be continued. CFIAIRMAN STRAIN: Well, then staffs going to have to figure out a way to get us staffreports before the meetings in a much advanced time frame so that things like this can be caught and fixed, because this is better language than we started with. It was in the staff report. It helps to clarifu concems that -- on Piper Boulevard that the neighborhood had. It's a positive thing, not a negative. The applicant has agreed to it. Page 5 of38 August 16,2018 MR. KLATZKOW: It is positive, okay, but this thing's been going on for at least half a year, okay, and I don't -- when this thing comes to the Planning Commission, it should be in a box and a bow, all right. Everything should be fine. The public should have had ample opportunity to review everything, by the way, as well as staffand County Attorney. If the County Commission themselves has concerns on the dais, yes, changes can be made. Same thing with the Board. But it needs to come to you in a box and a bow. This is not a box and a bow. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: If we didn't try to make it better, it would have been. MR. KLATZKOW: Then it should have been continued, Mark, all right. MS. ASHTON-CICKO: Okay. I'm going to make a recommendation that some language be added. MR. YOVANOVICH: Before you make the change, Heidi, we are not accessing from Livingston Road for the bus system. This language is accurate. This is the language that Michelle Amold has approved. Access will be from Piper as described here. There will not be buses accessing from Livingston Road which was -- and maybe that's not what the change you were going to make, but that was the question you asked. And that's all I'm up here to say. MS. ASHTON-CICKO: Well, unless the master plan was changed as well, the master plan says "exit and entry off of Livingston." MR. YOVANOVICH: We'll fix it. MS. ASHTON-CICKO: But my recommended language would be, "If the CAT buses enterthe parking lot from Piper Boulevard," comma, then the rest of the sentence. I mean, is there a reason they're not allowed to access on Livingston Road? MR. MULI{ERE: I think your change is a good one. MS. ASHTON-CICKO: And then just please correct the typos. MR. MULHERE: Yep. Paragraph B, one word, parking "only" for clarification. This is language on the development and design standards for Tract P. The question was whether the applicant agreed to construct a wall or a fence, and while it was clear that we agreed to construct a wall on the west perimeter boundary, the question was whether we could construct a wall or fence on the other perimeter boundaries. Actually, I think the FPL easement requires a wall. And so this language indicates that we will construct a wall around all perimeters except for entry and exit and pedestrian access points. Paragraph F read, "The parking lot may not be used." We changed that to "shall" so that it is a requirement as opposed to permissive. MS. ASHTON-CICKO: Bob, may I get clarity? Is the fence going to go on the perimeter on the parking lot - MR. MULHERE: Yes. MS. ASHTON-CICKO: -- or is it going around the pavementarea? MR. MULHERE: It's -- the wall will be located within the landscape buffer around the perimeter of the parking lot. MS. ASHTON-CICKO: Okay. MR. MULHERE: And the -- there was some question about maximum height. I had had some discussions with Michelle Arnold with respect to the height of the CAT shade structures or transit stops. And there are some restrictions in the FP&L agreement, so this language reflects that subject to their approval the height for transit shelters shall not exceed 20 feet from finished grade, and really the same for the lighting fixtures. We added this stipulation, which was agreed to at the neighborhood information meeting. "Shift changes for employees using the parking lot shall not occur between 6 a.m. and 8 a.m. or 4 p.m. and 6 p.m." Those are peak hours, peak traffrc hours, and we certainly don't want to add to that congestion, so we will -- the applicant will arrange the employee shifts to be outside of those peak hours, and that was something that came up at the NIM, and we agreed to it. It was asked that we delineate all24 parkng spaces on the master plan for Park and fude. We had only delineated 10 because I guess the plan was changed during the process. But we've now delineated all of the required 24 spaces, which you can see in the larger detail, which is right here. So that's the other 14 Page 6 of38 August 16,2018 spaces, and l0 up here. This is the land-use summary. I won't spend any time on that other than to just note that the PUD is 6.82 acres, while the small-scale amendment is 6.33 acres. We did ask for a couple of deviations, which staffis recommending approval for. We did have a NIM. There were about 55 members of the public there. We believe we've addressed the concerns that can reasonably be addressed that were raised there, and we do have a staffrecommendation of approval for both petitions. I assume at this point Jim Banks could hand out the -- he did already; okay, sorry. So you may have some questions. I think that's where we're at. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody on the Planning Commission have questions to start with? Diane? COMMISSIONER EBERT: Well, I just would like you to put up the plan for the parking area for the employees and the CAT. I want to see that whole thing. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Bob, if you want to use the overhead, it's on page -- well, it's the third or fourth page into the TIS. I noticed it this morning. MR. Mt LIIERE: I don't have the TIS. Well, because of the orientation of this master plan, it's a little bit hard to get the whole thing on the visualizer in a scale that you can easily see. But that's the entrance offof Livingston right here, and this is Park and Ride, and these spaces right here are Park and Ride. And then as you go south from there, that's the employee parking area. There are FP&L infrastructure guy-wires and stuffin these two areas where we have dry detention, so we had to avoid putting any parking in those locations. And that's the interface with the utility site right here. And then this is the southern portion of the master plan: Piper Boulevard here, and access to the utility parcel, and then access to the FP&L site. There was a question about this area here which is vegetated and will not be impacted -- I'm sorry; slide that down. This area here, this is 152 feet of width. It's heavily vegetated and will remain so. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Does that answer your question? COMMISSIONER EBERT: Can you tell me where your handicapped parking is? I don't see any on here. MR. MULHERE: There is handicapped parking right here, right there, and also right down here. I'm sorry. I've got to slide that up for you. Right here. COMMISSIONER EBERT: So that's for -- okay. To there. Is that -- MR. MULHERE: In both locations, yes. COMMISSIONER EBERT: So you're doing four for this whole area? Nothing for the employees across the street? MR. MULHERE: There's handicapped parking on the site across the street. I'm sorry -- COMMISSIONER EBERT: So the employees that need handicapped parking are going to park across the street, which is fine? MR. MULHERE: Well, yeah, they may, but this is sufficient to meet all the requirements for handicapped parking what we have shown on this site. COMMISSIONER EBERT: But your one down here at the parking is for your FP&L people. That's their parking down there. MR. MULHERE: No. FP&L -- we're not doing anything to their site. Their site is over here. Whatever they feel like they need -- they're not using this parking. This is for employee parking of the, you know, Seed to Table facility and also Park and Ride. And utilities will not be using that either. They enter, and they have their own improvements down here. And they'll go through their own Site Development Plan, utilities will, and they have their own requirements in the code. This is only for - and I think there's one, two - I believe there's actually four handicapped parking spaces right here. One, two, three, four - this is, you know, for -- a clear area for ramp parking for handicapped, and these are regular handicapped spaces right here. And then there are several -- one here and one there. So there's at least two more, maybe three more up on the north part. And we're going through a Site Development Plan. So if we don't meet the code, we will, but I believe it does. Page 7 of38 August 16, 2018 COMMISSIONER EBERT: Okay. Thank you. CTIAIRMAN STRAIN: JOe? COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Bob, on the - putthat exhibit backup again. MR. MULHERE: Sure. Sorry. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: On the top where it say, "Employee and CAT entry and exit. MR. MULHERE: Yes. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: If that is not a CAT entr5z, then don't indicate that is a CAT entry. MR. MULHERE: Yeah. I think based on Heidi's recommended change, we can leave that, because in the future, if they do use it, it would be open to be used. And with Heidi's change to the other text we should be - that stipulation will only apply to buses using Piper. It doesn't preclude them from using Livingston. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: All right. On the -- regards to the use of this parking lot -- I'm looking for my notes. It's employee parking and it's CAT parking for Park and Ride. So how will you -- explain to me how you're going to control access. Park and Ride, I can just drive in and park my car and then get on a CAT bus, but if I'm an employee, I have to go through a controlled gate? MR. MULFIERE: No. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Or do I go through a controlled gate regardless? MR. MULHERE: No. There is no access for any -- I'm looking for my pen. There's no access for any users of this parking area. There is no access through Piper. That's prohibited. That will be controlled gate. That can only be utilized with control, a gate, for -- as the PUD says, for -- I'm sorry. Let me slide it up. I apologize - for FP&L, county utilities, and emergency vehicles. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: And CAT entry. MR. MULI{ERE: And CAT entry, thankyou. Now, everyone else who is using this facility for Park and Ride or for employee parking will enter and exit from Livingston, and that's not controlled. We wouldn't want that controlled because, obviously, that could have the effect of backing up traffic onto Livingston. That's free-flowing like any other parking lot. You pull in; park your car. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: So this is for employee parking. How are you - and you mentioned in the staffreport, or it says in the staffreport there will be a shuttle service. MR. MULHERE: Correct. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: How -- or will there be -- what will you do to control anybody from attempting to cross Livingston? MR. MULHERE: Okay. So the wall will prohibit -- I mean, you know, people aren't going to climb over a 6-foot wall. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: So, basically, they'd have to climb the wall? MR. MULHERE: So they're going to be required to cross at the corner, and the site has been designed to cause them to have to go to that corner to cross, if they want to walk. The shuttle will routinely pick up people during shift changes, but there's also a call box. So if someone - and people will come in off-shift times, then they can just call in for the shuttle to come and get them if they didn't want to walk. It could be raining. You know, it's Florid4 in the summer. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: So as far as Park and Ride and employee parking, there's no distinction as far as where employees will park versus Park and Ride? MR. MULHERE: These Park and Ride spaces will be signed, I'm sure, and reserved for Park and Ride. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: And controlled how? MR. MULI{ERE: Just by signage. I mean, you put a sign up, reserved for parking, CAT Park and Ride. I mean, it's like handicapped parking or - COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: It's the honor system? MR. MULHERE: Yeah, yeah. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Got it. MR. MULI{ERE: I mean, we are installing -- as a condition, we a.re installing security cameras, I Page 8 of38 August 16, 2018 think, just to get to this issue as well, which will be monitored. There was a couple of concems about people hanging out in the parking lot after shift and these kinds of things. And Alfie Oakes has indicated he will manage tha! and I'm sure he will. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: And it says no ovemight parking. How are you going to control that? MR. MULI{ERE: Well, people will be parking there because there's up to three shifts at the place. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Correct, but it says specifically there's no ovemight parking. MR. MULHERE: Yeah. Well, I think that -- COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: I don't see how that could be controlled. I mean, if people are working or if people are on a CAT bus or whatever, there might be people parking overnighq so how do you make that stipulation when, in fact, it can't be enforced? MR. MULHERE: Well, I think what it was intended to preclude is people who don't have business parking here, are not employees or using the CAT park-and-ride system from simply parking here, you know, on a 24-hour or ovemight basis. And we will monitor that and, to the degree that we have to manage it, we will. I don't really foresee that as being an issue. COMMISSIONER SCHMIT'I: The only enforcement you have is through the Sheriffs Department then? MR. MULI{ERE: Yes, like any other parking lot. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Okay. I have a question of staff, but I'll wait. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody else have -- COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Just a little followup. So if somebody wanted to carpool and meet there, there's no way they'd stop them? MR. MULFDRE: I mean, the parking lot will be signed for employee parking only as well as allowing for the countlr's Park and Ride. So, technically, somebody coming in and parking there for some other reason would not have the right. It's, you know -- COMMISSIONER CHMANOWSKI: Not have the righ! but you're not going to have people actively out there enforcing. MR. MULFIERE: No, we're not going to have armed security guards. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I think that's where Joe was headed with this. MR. MULIIERE: Yeah. We're not going to have security guards walking around. We are going to monitor the site. We do have cameras. I think that would be - you know, a method of reducing or eliminating some unauthorized use of the place. And if it does happen, we'll be able to see it and take care of it. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Joe? COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: I'm going to follow up on Stan's question. Park and Ride typically, and most anywhere else in the country, supports two elements. One is for public transportation, but the other is to do exactly what Stan said: Park the car there, meet up with a carpool, and drive somewhere else. MR. MULHERE: And that's okay. Well, I mean, I'lldeferto Michelle on that. I knowthatthe intent was to be able to park your car and take the CAT system. But I don't know if that would matter if someone was carpooling and then leaving their car there. I'll have to defer to Michelle. But I don't imagine that would be an issue. You know, I mean, if you think about a typical Park and Ride in the locations where we're familiar with it, they're at a transit location. People park their car and get on public transit. But carpooling is generally another way of reducing individual trips on the roadway. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Well, having been many years in Washington, D.C., it's typical,very typical for carpools to meet in a park and Ride and -- (Multiple speakers speaking.) MR. MLILHERE: Probably a question for staff. COMMISSIoNER CHRZANOWSKI: Yeah. But they also meet at Naples Walk shopping center,and I see them all the time; you know, anyplace there's op"n p*kirg. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: I just have p.obl"rni with Ihe language when it really can,t be Page 9 of38 August 16, 2018 enforced. I mean, it's a Park and Ride. It's a Park and Ride. MR. MULHERE: I think - well, there's a couple things. Number one, I think most -- many commercial - parking lots associated with commercial activities have signage that says "no ovemight parking," and we're enforcing it probably to a greater degree than all those other parking lots because we're going to install security cameras, we're going to have a shuttle bus, we're going to have shift changes. We'll be able to monitor this. Most places aren't really - they may have cameras, but they're not monitoring it. So as far as the transit end of it, I'd defer to Michelle because I don't want to say something that, you know, I don't have the -- it's not my job to respond to that. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody else? COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: I just have a question. CHAIRMAN STRAN: Go ahead, Karen. COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Will the employees have -- be given a sticker for their vehicles to park in there or a hanger or something to -- so it's easy to indicate that they're supposed to be there or not? MR. MULHERE: You know, we didn't have any discussion aboutthat. MR. YOVANOVICH: If it becomes an issue where we have a concern that the general public is somehow using what's supposed to be employee parking -- I was thinking the same thing, perhaps we'd just simply give them a sticker or hang tag or something. It will be easy for us to monitor. Then the question becomes, did someone improperly park in one of the employee parking spaces for CAT. You know, those are -- you know, we're not going to want to immediately tow somebody. Perhaps we give them a little friendly reminder the first time. But I really don't think this is going to - if this comes to a problem and there's concern about it, we'll be prepared to address and monitor that. But since it is a shared facility for the public to use the CAT system, I really would hate to tow somebody who for that day there was 25 people who showed up for the Park and Ride and they parked in one of the employee parking spaces. So we're going to have to do some -- we may have to do some adjusting in the future if we find that somebody's coming and using this as a carpool area. I'm assuming that any shopping center, if it became a problem, they all probably have their "Only authorized people. Everybody else will be towed." There's a mechanism to enforce that if it becomes an issue, and we're prepared to address that. CIIAIRMAN STRAN: Okay. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: I mean, I have no problem with people parking there, and then it's a matter of usage. If it's used and it becomes a problem, then I would expect that you would enforce it; otherwise, it's a parking lot. Okay. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody else? Q.{o response.) CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. My questions are mostly of staffat this point. So if no other questions of the applicant, we'll move on to staffreport. MR. WEEKS: Good moming, Commissioners. I'm David Weeks ofthe Comprehensive Planning staffto present the staffreport for the Comprehensive Plan amendment. Not a whole lot to this one. Staffis recommending approval of it. Our findings and conclusions really summarize our position on this application, and that's found on Page 8, the final page of the staffreport' And it's on that page that I want to make one minor correction for the record. COMMISSIONER EBERT: What Page? MR. WEEKS: It's Page 8 of the staffreporl, hard copy. Finalpage of the staffreport. On the top of the page, "findings and conclusions" is the heading, and on the fourth bullet point the third line, the word "distribution" should be "transmission," and that is referring to the power lines that are overhead on this property as well as to the north and the south, that corridor. That is an FP&L transmission line, not distributionline. the transmission lines are the major lines coming from the power plant down to, say, substations, and then from there the smaller distribution lines are what goes out throughout the "o,,,nunity to serve individual neighborhoods and projects. The terminolory is correctly used earlier in the staffreport. Staffs recommendation is for approval. Page 10 of38 August 16,2018 CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody? Go ahead, Joe. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Question, David, Page 5, third paragraph, and it says, "Comprehensive Planning stafffinds the proposed GMP amendment to be generally compatible." What do you mean "generally"? Is it or is it not compatible? I have a difficult time understanding what "generally" means. MR. WEEKS: ln Comprehensive Planning - COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: To me it's sort of nebulous. MR. WEEKS: Our review in Comprehensive Planning is broader than the zoning review. The zoning staffare reviewing the project, taking into accoun! if there were buildings, the building orientation, the height the development standards, buffering, open spaces, et cetera. And from the Comprehensive Planning standpoint we're looking at it from the broader perspective ofjust, generally, a parking lot at this location. Is that - from a high-level view, is that compatible or not, and we believe it is. In this particular case, there's major highways on two sides, there's the FP&L transmission line, an undeveloped propefty to the north that is zoned single-family, but in our view we think it's highly unlikely that a single-family home would be built there. And then to the west we have the FP&L substation, utility site, and pump station. And then before you get to the residential properties, there are about seven or eight single-family homes abutting the larger tax parcel that the county owns. But this parking lot itself is separated from those single-family homes by 125- to 15O-foot-wide native vegetation pine flat woods. So we generally find it compatible. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: There's that word again, "generally." Okay. It is compatible. Statement of fact. MR. WEEKS: Okay. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody else of David? David, you issued a memorandum to James Sabo on July 12th, and just a correction. It says, "The request is to rezone 6.33 acres from RSF3 to commercial Planned Unit Development for parking lot. It's really 6.82 for the rezone. It's 6.33 for the GMP. Is that accurate? MR. WEEKS: That sounds accurate, yes, sir, because the rezone is a larger site. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. So that's the only -- but that's the only correction I see in your stuff. Thankyou. Thankyou. Anybody else? (No response.) CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. James? MR. SABO: For the record, James Sabo, Zoning Division. The Zoning Division staffrecommends approval based on discussions at the meeting today. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody have any questions of James before we have Mike Sawyer come up? COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: I have another question on the staffreport, and I'm looking for it, so stand by. I, unfortunately, didn't tab some of my questions. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Mike, would you mind coming up while he finds it? I just need you to acknowledge for the record you reviewed not the -- it wasn't a revised TIS. It was just the one formatted for this property, since that's the only issue of discussion today, and that it meets your criteria and you're okay with it. MR. SAWYER: Certainly. Mike Sawyer, for the record, Transportation Planning. We did look at the TIS that was provided, and it does meet our standards, and we agree with the conclusions that it reaches. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. And just for history, the way this happened, the staffreport included a TIS for the project across the street. And although it had data in it for this, you had to extract it from that, and that was a TIS for an SDP for across the street which really doesn't stand alone when you look at this project as a PUD on its own. So that's the basis under which I thought we should have a TIS just for this site. I think you're in Page 11 of38 August 16,2018 concurrence with that, and we now have it. Is that a fair statement? MR. SAWYER: I would say that is very accurate, yes. CHAIRMAN STRAN: Okay. Anybody have any questions on transportation before I go back to Joe? Diane? COMMISSIONER EBERT: Mike. Yeah, I don't appreciate getting this. I have been -- as you know, I did talk to you on this. I don't -- I think maybe I should be -- rather than your portion of it, I suppose I should be asking Mr. Yovanovich. In this report -- CHAIRMAN STRAN: Let's wait for -- let's wait till we get done with staff since we started on staff. COMMISSIONER EBERT: All right. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody else have any questions of Mike? (No response.) CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. James, I think - thank you. I think Joe had a question. He may have found his question now. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Page 8 of the staffreport, Finding No. 1, "Zoningstaffhas reviewed the proposed amendments and believes." Again, I'm going to criticize the use of the word. "Believes" is sort of a weak use. It either concludes or finds or some any -- Stan believes the Earth is flat. I keep on telling him no, but -- but, I mean, is it "believed" -- or "concludes", or is there another word? Next time you write something -- I mean, staffcould believe a lot of things. They may not be factual. I would look for a word -- more of a statement of fact again. MR. SABO: Understood, Mr. Schmitt. I do have strong beliefs, and we can change it to "finds" if you're more comfortable. That would be fine. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Thanks. CIIAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Anybody else have any questions of James? If not, Michelle, since you're a member of staffand this is under staffreport, could you respond to a question or two that I would like to ask at least about your traffrc generation. MS. ARNOLD: Good morning. For the record, Michelle Arnold, Public Transit and Neighborhood Enhancement director. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Was that language that appeared that we moved from the staffreport to make it part of the PUD, was that consistent with your understanding of how things will be operating? MS. ARNOLD: Yes. But I agree with Heidi's modification to not restrict access on Livingston Road. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Right. And I think Bob's already accepted that too. The staff- the TIS that was made that was applicable to this property for access onto Piper during p.m. peak hours, it shows one CAT bus. So I don't know how often your buses rotate, but during the peak hour peak time, is that realistic? MS. ARNOLD: One bus per hour? CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Per the p.m. peak time. It would be four to six and then - I mean, six to eight in the morning, and I think it's four to six in the aftemoon. Would you have more than one bus an hour come through at that point? MS. ARNOLD: Probably -- it will probably be better to not limit it to one. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Well, it's not limited. I just wanted to understand forthe traffic analysis. MS. ARNOLD: Currently with our headways, it is one; it would be one bus per hour -- CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. MS. ARNOLD: -- during those peak hours. If the usage increases and we can get additional folks using the system, then it could increase to probably a couple an hour. CHAIRMAN STRAN: Okay. And the basis -- you'd be entering, then, as we've said, from Piper. MS. ARNOLD: Yes. CHAIRMAN STRAN: You're coming down Immokalee, you're taking a left or a right on Lakeland. You're going around picking up Piper, going down and going in the gate that's going to be Page 12 of38 August 16,2018 accessible only by your people or other county vehicles involved or FP&L for those utility sites. MS. ARNOLD: Correct. MS. ASHTON-CICKO: While you are on the gate issue, is that something you want to identify the location on the master plan? Because I don't see it on the revised master plan that Mr. Mulhere distributed today. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: We can add it. Bob, can you make an arrow to the - I mean, the only place they can get on on Piper is where the arrow is on Piper, so that's, I'm assuming, where your gate was going to go. MR. MULI{ERE: And if there's dual access, there will have to be two gates. So, I mean, it is a condition, but we can certainly add some language to that. MS. ASHTON-CICKO: So it will be on the southem properly line. MR. MULFIERE: (Nods head.) CHAIRMAN STRAN: Okay. Go ahead, Michelle. Did you have anything else you wanted to add? I don't have any other questions. MS. ARNOLD: Just to comment about someone coming in and doing a shared ride or something like that; with public transit we're encouraging people to get out of their single-occupancy vehicles and get off the road, so we wouldn't have an objection to that type of - COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Good. MR. EASTMAN: Mr. Chair? CHAIRMAN STRAN: Yes, sir. MR. EASTMAN: Are there facilities to allow someone to bike to this facility and then ride the public bus, and they could lock up their bike or store their bike there? MS. ARNOLD: I believe that there are bike racks that are going to be at that northern location but not lockers or anlthing like that; just a rack. So if somebody wanted to ride their bike, they can utilize that. We have that at all of our stops currently. CHAIRMAN STRAN: Okay. Anybody else of Michelle? (No response.) CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you, Michelle. MS. ARNOLD: Thanks. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: That is the questions we've had of staffand the applicant's presentation, but Diane had a question of Mr. Yovanovich, so we'll move back to the applicant at this point. COMMISSIONER EBERT: Good moming. I do have a question. On one of the tables in here, the principal use, it says, Albertson's was 61,286 square feet. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: No, no, Diane. That's a different project. That isn't this project. This is a PUD for Livingston and the northwest corner of Livingston and lmmokalee. It has - it is a new PUD, stand-alone. It is not part of that PUD. So the Albertson's has nothing to do with it. COMMISSIONER EBERT: I -- they are taking the spot that Albertson's was in? CHAIRMAN STRAIN: No. This is a parking lot on the west side of Livingston Road. COMMISSIONER EBERT: I undersand that, but -- so we are not going to talk about the building on the other side. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: No. MR. YOVANOVICH: Correct, we are not. CFIAIRMAN STRAIN: It's not a part of this PUD. MR. YOVANOVICH: The reason Mr. Strain - and I agree with him when we met was that we needed to isolate out from the TIS the traffic data that actually applied to the use -- COMMISSIONEREBERT: Okay. Then - MR. YOVANOVICH: - and that's why we modified that. COMMISSIONER EBERT: - why are you requesting this parking lot? MR. YOVANOVICH: The purpose of the parking lot as identified in the backup material, is to provide employee parking for the commercial development that's occurring in the Carlton Lakes PUD and to also provide for a CAT Park and Ride. Page 13 of38 August 16,2018 We are not providing any of the required parking for the commercial activity in Carlton Lakes. We are here just simply to get approved an employee parking lot and a CAT Park and Ride. It was confusing in the TIS because -- COMMISSIONER EBERT: Yes. MR. YOVANOVICH: -- it was used for an SDP that talked about employees and the need for employee parking. So we clarified it to take out the extraneous information and focus only on the purpose of this PUD, which is for employee parking. COMMISSIONER EBERT: Well, I understand it's only going to be employee and CAT, but I was wondering why you needed it, because you're saying that this is just a grocery store, and when it went through, why was there not enough parking right at Seed and Table (sic)? MR. YOVANOVICH: There actually is enough code-required parking, but Seed to Table is a different type of concept which requires a lot of employees for purposes of preparing the food and other items that are sold in the commercial activity. So in this particular case, we met the code-required parking. We knew from a practical standpoint that we needed additional parking for employee parking, and that's why we approached the county originally about leasing some of this space under the FP&L easement and going through this process of amending the Comprehensive Plan as well as doing a separate PUD to allow for this employee parking use. We meet the code across the street. COMMISSIONEREBERT: Okay. So did you do anew PUD forthe Albertson's site itselfl MR. YOVANOVICH: No, because we're not making any changes to the Carlton Lakes P[ID. We don't need to make any changes to the Carlton Lakes PUD to address what we're doing today. This is an employee parking lot. COMMISSIONER EBERT: Very confusing. Thank you. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Thankyou. Anybody else? (No response.) CHAIRMAN STRAIN: We've heard from staffand the presentation. We'll now move to public speakers. We'll start by calling the registered public speakers. We ask that you limit your time to five minutes and use either one of the microphones when your name is called. After everybody who has registered has come up, I'll ask if anybody else wants to speak. So if you haven't had a chance to register, we'll make sure we hear you today. So with that, James or Ray, whoever's calling the names. MR. SABO: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The first speaker is Alex Chappler. MR. CHAPPLER: Thank you, everyone. I didn't think I'd be the first one up here. My name's Alex Chappler. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Could you spell your last name for the record. MR. CHAPPLER: C-h-a-p-p-l-e-r. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you. MR. CHAPPLER: I live in Willoughby Acres. And we've been addressing within the community a few of the issues that have come up, one being the need for an employee parking lot, as you just stated, across the street. The second, it is a residential community. It's a residential zone. They have been -- there are people in the neighborhood that have been looking to develop in this area; the safety and security as well as the environmental impact. The one thing I've not heard today is the environmental impact. We have a very large bear problem. We have recently been having a very large rattlesnake problem. They live on that FP&L line. This is where they've been pushed from Talis Park, from Mediterra. This is what's left for them. There are three commercial zones within ahalf a mile that are already zoned commercial that could be used for an employee parking lot if it is going to be a shuttled commercial parking lot. Every time this has been brought up they say, no, our people are going to be there. They're going to use these buses. They're not going to be running across the street. You cant stop that unless this is controlled; it is patrolled. There's going to be no stopping an employee who's late to work from flying in Page 14 of38 August 16,2018 there, jumping out of his car, and jumping across Livingston Road. Livingston and Immokalee, if you live in this area, is a train wreck during season. So a half a mile east on [mmokalee Road, right next to the car wash -- I've called IPC. They are the owners of that location right now, or the realtors of location right now. They would happily put a parking lot in that location. There are lights. There's Collier Area Transit there already, and they could be transported to and from work on these scheduled times that are being discussed without issue. There are two commercial locations south on Livingston that have a light right next to Collier Regional Park. They are both within driving distance of a bus if that's how these employees are getting to and from work. So I don't understand why we are changing a zoning from residential to commercial with the environmental impacts as well as the safety concems. Someone can come to this Park and fude -- which that makes no sense to me. I've used CAT transit for years. I don't use it as a Park and Ride. I walk literally up Piper Road. There is a bus stop right there. If you go across the street on lmmokalee, there is a bus stop right there. If you go just down to Airport, there is a bus stop right there. And if you cross again offlmmokalee and Piper, there's another bus stop right there. There are five bus stops in that neighborhood that don't require a Park and Ride. I mean, if we're going to start doing transport from Lee to Collier on Livingston, might be a possibility, but that was not in the discussion at all. This is specifically for Collier Area Transit. So the people that use the Collier Area Transit aren't going to be doing a Park and Ride right there. There's too many locations within that neighborhood and across the street that can be used. So I don't understand how that is even factored into this as a community member. Other than that the safety of it. You have people that can park there. Yes, you say you're going to have cameras. They can walk right around the wall and be in someone's backyard. They're talking about 100 feet, I think I heard, 125 feet of vegetation. After the hurricane, it's just grass. There's a couple trees. There's not much else. So people can walk into your backyard, walk into your house, and now we have a security issue within the neighborhood, which has not been an issue on those cul-de-sacs. It is one of the safest cul-de-sacs all the way up Willoughby Acres. We've had a -- I've looked at the crime reports. We have had things down the center where people have come and robbed homes and stufflike that, but it is very minimal. For a non-gated communitlz, we have very little crime in that area. So with the environmental, the safety, and the security, I don't feel that changing to a commercial property when there are so many around the area is an issue. Thank you. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you. And your environmental issues, at leas! at some point we'll have the environmental staffcome up and comment on those. Thank you. And I noticed, Mike, Summer was here. If she's not coming back, would you ask her to come back. Oh, okay, good. So when we finish with public speakers, Summer, I'd like to ask you to come up. Next speaker. MR. SABO: Next speaker is Gerald Lefebvre. MR. LEFEBVRE: Gerald Lefebvre. And I'll be glad to spell that name. L-e-f-e-b as in boy, V as in Victor, r-e. I am also a resident of Willoughby Acres. And some of the questions I had have been answered here. But I have two main areas I'd like to talk about. One is enforcement of the PUD. It seems like it's almost impossible to enforce some of the provisions of this PUD. The other is, this is not a separate PUD like it's trying to be; trying to separate it. It's tied in directly to the Carlton Lakes commercial PUD. ln fact, when the owner came -- or the applicant came initially, that should have been addressed. And when you do your due diligence, you make sure that you can have parking on the propefty that you're going to be running your business. That's just rule number one; not to come after when you put in millions of dollars, you own the propelty, and you decide, oh, wait a minute, I'm not going to have enough parking. That's just not acceptable to take this responsibility and put it on a neighborhood that is zoned residential. And there's been concems from you. I've heard it. But, again, the traffic is just problematic up there. Page 15 of38 August 16,2018 And just to put this parking lot here and not try to have it on site, or maybe another site should have been chosen. To come at this point, the 11th hour, and try to force this down and change is just not acceptable. Thank you. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thankyou. Next speaker, James. MR. SABO: Next person is Jerry Grandey. MR. GRANDEY: Mr. Chair, Jerry Grandey. It's spelled G-r-a-n-d-e-y. I'll try to keep this to the time limit, and I'll try to address things that have not been addressed, because I think the things that Mr. Chappler and Mr. Lefebvre have mentioned are appropriate. The first piece I'll address is traffrc; that there is a new TIS, I understand that it's extracted from the previous one. But I had expressed particular interest in the traffic information at the informational hearing and was sent a copy of the original TIS. I was not notified by anyone that there was going to be any sort of a new TIS now attached to this lot. I would have appreciated getting that information. However, what I did not see addressed in the original TIS, effectively - and I doubt is addressed in the new one that I have not seen, is the traffic impact that is going to happen to the residential portion of the Carlton Lakes PUD. I am here to represent people who live on the south end of the Carlton Lakes community; Edgewater Homeowners Association is a group of 56 condos. We are directly opposite the entry/exit point that is proposed for this lot. That gives us a lot of interesting perspectives on how this will be operating. There is a traffic component to that. There is a lighting component to that. I've heard nothing addressed about that, even though we brought it up at the informational meeting. And there is also going to be a safety issue partly related to traffic that is not being addressed here because you've separated it from the Carlton Lakes PUD. And I agree with the previous gentleman that this is the wrong place for this, and there are other opportunities for this. I understand that because this is not a traditional grocery store, that this is being used differently. I've seen nothing done to really address that change of use, and that concerns me. When we were at the informational hearing to hear that there are expected to be -- and this is from the applicant himself - they're expected to be 400 to 500 employees at this site. Well, if I understand, that's three shifts, 24 hours a day. It's going to be three shifts, 400 to 500 split over three shifts. That's a lot of parking you need for those employees. Okay. So I understand that there is a need -- if you're going to provide customer parking at the site, there's a need for more employee parking than might be required by code, and I understand that there's a need from a business standpoint to try to find additional parking and a way to get your employees effectively to and from that parking. I am here to suggest that this is the wrong place for it. And it's interesting to me to hear that someone from the public has done the legwork to find additional opportunities for that. If I have any time left, I'll address these things. First of all, regarding the lighting, this is a 24-hour operation. We know there's going to be lighting there at night. That was discussed during the informational hearing. The commitment was it will be low-level lighting. When asked about that, the response was, oh, it will be low in height, and they'll be shielded. There is nothing shielded. There is nothing that is requiring any of that. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Yes, there is, sir. First of all, the FP&L agreement requires no higher than 14 feet. The PUD requires no higher than 20. So they'll be at 14 feet unless the agreement can be changed, but FP&L would be the dominant factor in that. The code requires them to be shielded and directional. So the lighting will be controlled by our code automatically even though it's not in the PUD. I just wanted to let you know that. MR. GRANDEY: Well, I appreciate hearing that, because the history that we've had with the lighting that currently exists on the PUD site is not a good one. We started raising the issue of light intrusion into the Edgewater HOA areas last fall. We addressed it first through our community association; that was ineffective. We addressed it after that with code enforcement; that was ineffective. We addressed it after that with our county commission; that became more effective in the sense that we got the right verbal responses. Page 16 of38 August 16,2018 And we got some of the lights that were offending turned offtemporarily. There was another one that was, we agreed, a safety concern if it were to be turned ofl but the commitment was that that would be shielded immediately. Well, immediately has tumed into six months, and it's still not done, and we have continuing conversations about that. So my history with addressing the lighting is not one that gives me confidence. The traffic issue is something that I want to address in two spots. One is the crossover that the pattern of these vans is going to be using in order to access the PUD. Out of - and I wish the graphic were still up, but perhaps you remember it well enough. The entrance/exit is on the extreme north end of the lot. The pattern - CFLq,IRMAN STRAIN: James, could you put that map back on for us. Thank you. It will be up there. There you go, sir. MR. GRANDEY: Great. Very good. So as we look at that, the entrance/exit is at the north end of the platted lot. It couldn't go any fuither north. That's as far as it can be. Now, the traffic pattern that's being described or was described at the hearing, or the information meeting, the vans come out of the parking lot they cross over all of Livingston to get into the left tum lane to turn into Carlton Lakes Boulevard. That's three lanes that they cross and then go into the left turn lane onto Carlton Lakes Boulevard. They wait there for the appropriate opening, they tum onto Carlton Lakes Boulevard. And what I wish were on this graphic but is not is what they do after tha! and that's a separate piece. So the first piece is this crossover. This was addressed in several different ways by several different individuals during the information hearing. How -- it's hard to find the word about how poorly thought out this particular approach is. The idea that even during offseason you're going to be able to safely have shuttle vans coming out of here crossing over three lanes of traffrc and going into that left turn lane is marginal. If you consider it during season, it's -- again, I struggle to find the word. It's not appropriate. So I find that that part of this design is ineffectual, in addition to which these vans are then going to continue on to Carlton Lakes Boulevard. They go to the far end of the building, and they tum right into the back of the property, go up and drop offtheir shuttle passengers, and they come back out the same way, come back onto Carlton Lakes Boulevard, go up one-quarter mile to where the U-tum is on the median, and one-quarter mile is adequate, if you're careful, to get across three lanes and into that left turn lane to make a U-turn lane. And then they come back down to enter the parking lot. So I have two problems with that; one of them is this crossover on Livingston that you can see, and the other is the portion that happens on the east end of the actual building. The width of the driveway in that area is not adequate for the kind ofuse that is being proposed. And I understand that this is outside of the actual PUD that's being proposed here, but because this is causing the impact I think it needs to be considered. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Now, I've got to ask you to kind of summarize up. You've had l0 minutes, so if you don't mind. MR. GRANDEY: Sure. I think the only other thing that I'll say is that I understand that there are many needs here, and they may not all coexist, but I think this is actually a poorly chosen site. And I think, from what I've heard today, there actually are other sites. It also appears to me that there is not an urgency to doing this. IVe heard recently that there is potentially another delay in the opening of the facility. That allows more time for a more considered assessment of the need for employee parking and providing it in a different way. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you, sir. And when we get rebuttal by the applicant, some of the questions you've raised will be addressed. MR. GRANDEY: Great. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you. Next speaker, James. MR. SABO: Next person up is Charlie Hirschfeld. Page 17 of38 August 16,2018 MR. HIRSCHFELD: Good morning. My name is Charlie Hirschfeld, H-i-r-s-c-h-f-e-l-d. I'm the president of Carlton Lakes Master Association. We've been battling unsuccessfully for many, many years for a traffic light at our nofth entrance which is also opposite the Delasol community. Now, with this proposed parking lot -- and Mr. Grandey expressed very well as far as the traffic issues coming across three lanes of Carlton Lakes -- Livingston Road to make the left-hand tum onto Carlton Lakes. We have some other serious traffic issues. Number one, another exit out of our community is through the Oakes Farm Seed to Table/Dunkin Donuts entrance and exits which you literally can't get out of in the morning because of all the traffic on lmmokalee Road. Those on our south end of the community who currently go out there, with all this increased traffic now for Seed to Table, are probably going to go up to our north entrance. You have six lanes on Livingston Road between north and south. Our north entrance and, again, Delasol, you have traffic crossing three lanes. Mr. Grandey also mentioned that the vehicles that are transporting the people, the employees, when they come out of Carlton Lakes Boulevard have to go up norlh and make a U-tum. So you have several issues. Number one, that U-turn lane is going to be backed up. Number 2, increased traffic coming out of Carlton Lakes Boulevard at the north end. We need a traffic light there. If a traffrc light is put in, it will also give a break for the employee vehicles coming out of the employee parking lot, because traffic has to stop. I think it's a quarter of a mile north or half a mile north of the entrance and exit offof Livingston. So there's a severe traffic problem. There's even a traffic problem now; we're not even in season. So I don't know what we have to do to get a parking lot (sic). Bob, I don't know if you can -- does this go any further north? CHAIRMAN STRAIN: No, it doesn't. Your question was going to be you don't know what we can do about getting a traffic light up there. We're going to try to find that out for you before the meeting's over. MR. HIRSCFIFELD: Okay. Because the other problem we've had is the - all these GES systems -- GIS systems are bringing 40-foot traffic vehicles into our north end. They can't turn to get out to get back onto Livingston Road. They're backing up into two and three lanes of northbound traffic. Somebody's going to really get seriously hurt. We've had instance -- three of them in the last week where trucks with forklifts and tile backing up into Livingston Road where you have northbound traffic coming. If there's a light there, they can back up without it being a safety issue. So it's bad enough now. When that employee parking lot opens up, it's going to be even worse. And then to have to alter Alfie Oakes' employee hours to accommodate traffic from six to eight and four to six, a light would most likely alleviate a lot of their problems because traffic has to stop. So it's a real issue there. And as the other gentleman said, traffic on Immokalee Road is unbelievable. It's even unbelievable now. So we have 800 homes in Carlton Lakes. I don't know how many are in Delasol. And conversations that I've had with Alfie Oakes, he mentioned if the county would approve a traffic light there, he'd kick in something toward the paying for it. I can get our board to probably kick in something. I tried to get ahold of the president of Delasol, who is a new president; have not been able to reach him. But we need some - to get everybody together and see if we can get this light in. And now, I think the paper last week, there's 33O-some-odd apartments going in at Veterans and Livingston. Now, there's a light there bul again, you probably have another 500 cars. So the traffrc is an issue, and it's going to be worse now with this employee lot coming in. Thank you. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you, sir. Next speaker, James. MR. SABO: Next one up is Eric Mogelvang. MR. MOGELVANG: Hi. I'm not used to speaking in public, but I'11 give it a shot. My name is Eric Mogelvang. That's M-o-g-e-l-v-a-n-g. I am the manager for the LLC on the very north side of this properly right here. We bought this Page 18 of38 August 16,2018 propefty as a long-term investment with my investors, and we are very concerned on what's happening, especially because I was never notified of any of this. You see I come here with just this because I have never received anything. The only way I found out about this was from my neighbor to the north of me, Wes; I forget his last name. And he made a phone call to me a few weeks ago and said, hey, do you know what they're doing there? And I said, I have no idea what you're talking about. So I'm concerned about that, why I was never notified, because I would have sure loved to have been at the informational meeting. I'd like somebody to maybe even check on who was sent stuff, the list of people who were notified, because if I was notified and I didn't know about it, that's... Some of the points I want to make that I didn't hear about is the amount of parking spaces. I don't know what the square footage is, but I come from a commercial real estate background, and I know the value of a property. One of the approaches to the value is through the income. And I didn't hear anlthing here today and, of course, it wasn't at the informational meeting, and I have no documents, so I was curious to know how much are they paying? How much are they paying and for how long and is there escalations? Because as a taxpayeq obviously, I would want to know about that. Anytime government and private entities get together, it concerns me. For instance, vendors at public facilities, how they get in. It's an exclusive thing, and those types of situations are conceming to me as a citizen. Not just the property owner to the north. The - let's see. Some ofthe other notes I wrote down: Is this an opportunity for me to ask that question while I stand here? Is there an amount -- was there an amount given? CHAIRMAN STRAIN: It's not an issue for this board. We strictly go by the Land Development Code. Land Development Code doesn't regulate leases. That would be something for the Board of County Commissioners. But while you're intemrpted -- you intemrpted yourself, so I don't think I'm doing it. Do you have that property under a different name than yours? Because I just looked at the list. Your name's not on the list of people who were mailed. MR. MOGELVANG: Okay. The name would be MDLT Holdings, LLC. M as in Mary, D as in dog, LT b"irrg -- standing for long-term holdings. CFTAIRMAN STRAIN: Yes, it was at 2590 Golden Gate Parkway, Suite 106, Naples, Florida. MR. MOGELVANG: Yeah, we never got anything. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Well, it was mailed to you. Now, why you didn't get it, I don't know. But it was -- this is the official mailing list, and it went out to everybody. So at least we cleared that up, so... MR. MOGELVANG: Okay. Like I said,I didn't - like I said,I never saw it. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I understand. MR. MOGELVANG: The -- so regarding the lease, is there a copy of that lease that I can obtain at some point? CHAIRMAN STRAIN: It's part of the staffreport, so if you contact that gentleman there just to your righg he can give -- leave information how to reach you, he can email you a copy of the lease. MR. MOGELVANG: Okay. Because the value of the property, like I say, could be related to that income approach which may have - my thing is, I'm not a resident there, but I do care about the value of the propefty because that's my job, as for the investors. A gentleman earlier said it was unlikely a home will be built, but he doesn't know us. He never spoke to us. And the reality is, that is exactly what is going to be done with that property in the future, most likely, is to build a couple of homes either as custom homes or for spec. I am unsure what it will do to the value of our property to have buses coming and going, shuttle buses, at all hours of the night. I can only imagine that it's going to crush the value of the spec homes or custom homes that I build there in the future, and that concerns me greatly. Another point I heard Ms. Ebert brought up was why it was necessary, and another gentleman brought up how did it come up so late in the game. And both of those are great points that I would like to sfess again coming from a commercial real estate background. I know that my clients and the buyers that I was in conjunction with in purchase and sales would never take steps forward to invest so much without having these problems figured out already. And, Page 19 of38 August 16,2018 certainly, that is odd, to say the least. And to choose a property owned by the county, it just doesn't seem like -- something's funny going on there, and that concerns me. I think that's about all I have to say. And I will be trying to get that lease to -- CHAIRMAN STRAIN: We take a break at 10:30. At that time, if you approach James, he can get his card to you. MR. MOGELVANG: Okay. Thankyou. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you. Next speaker, James. MR. SABO: Next up is Anthony Pires. MR. PIRES: Mr. Strain, members ofthe Planning Commission. My name is Tony Pires. I live in Willoughby Acres, and I'm here representing myself today. I echo the concerns expressed by Mr. Chandler and Mr. Grandey, and I have a couple of other concems, comments, or questions. One thing I think is important the Comprehensive Plan in Section 6 point - 5.6 of the Future Land Use Element requires that new development shall be compatible with and complementary to the surrounding land uses as set forth in the Land Development Code. "Complementa4r to" means it enhances and supports the surrounding neighborhood, which you have an adjacent residential, well-established community in Willoughby Acres. There's no indication, there's no testimony, no evidence, there's no analysis -- and this has been, I guess, my concem for years as to the new development being complementary to the adjacent or surrounding land use, and I think that's the first predicate of a flawed analysis as to the Comprehensive Plan. Additionally, I don't know, and there's been no indication, as to the maximum number of employee parking spots. Interestingly enough, the only TIS the public had available until today shows 237 parking spots for employees and 10 for CAT. Now -- and we've been talking 24 for CAT, but no indication of how many for the employees. So I think that's an issue that really needs to -- we need to have that information. And along the lines of -- I understand that Mr. Yovanovich is trying to separate this from the property to the east; however, what I find interesting is that the county and the developer of the Albertson's property entered into a landscape maintenance agreement, an extensive part of Livingston Road right-of-way between the store, the new store, and the paved surface to put enhanced landscape buffer. I question whether any analysis has been performed as to how many parking spots for employees could have been placed on that site, because that would have been part of the parking spots that are already there. I'll make part of the record and hand out to you -- it's an insubstantial change to SDP00017 that shows the detailed landscape plan and the area encumbered by it. It doesn't give the acreage, but it's an extensive area. If I may hand it to Jeff. Is that okay, Jeff, or -- CHAIRMAN STRAN: Do you have enough copies for everybody? MR. PIRES: I only have one. And I'm sorr;, ofthis, but if I could -- CHAIRMAN STRAN: What you might want to do is, if you're going to use it for discussion -- are you going to use it for discussion, or do you just want to pass it on for the record? MR. PIRES: Pass it on for the record and also review by the members. And I guess the question -- CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Well, then you might want to use the overhead and use that microphone. And then after it's finished, we need to give a copy to the court reporter. MR. PIRES: Thank you. I think it would be important to have an analysis of the acreage involved and a calculation of how many employee parking spots could be placed at that location. That may obviate 30,40,50 parking spots on this side and reduce the impacts to the neighborhood and to this area. Additionally, I think a number of prohibitions need to be placed here. I appreciate the efflorts made by the staffand Mr. Strain to fuither refine this to - if it's going to be approved. But one thing that troubles me, initially one of the accessory uses that was listed was temporary parking and structures approved with an approved temporary-use permit. And that's no longer in the proposed document, but I'd like to have a pro - I think the public is well served by having a prohibition against temporary uses for anything involving Page 20 of38 August 16,2018 anything off site, because the initial indication was the county wanted to use this for parking for special events. There's a discussion about farmers markets or other marketing events. I recognize it's been taken out of the accessory uses; that was an initial draft. But I think a prohibition would be appropriate so there's no squabbling or no concem in the future as to what is absolutely allowed and what is absolutely prohibited in this area. With regards to the proposed uses and the prohibitions, I appreciate the efforts made, again, to clarify, and I didn't have the benefit -- and I know we will if it goes to -- continued to the next meeting to make sure language is correct but I think, F, the change today was the parking lot shall not be used by customers. I think it means customers or vendors. It doesn't prohibit vendors at the present time. It just says in G, the site will not be used for truck or tractor trailer unloading or parking, deliveries, oflsite storage, or ovemight parking. I think it needs to provide in F, the parking lot shall not be used by any person except the employees and shall not be used by any customers or vendors. I think that's really important. I think an additional prohibition needs to be added to the development and design standards. The parking lot may not be used for any offpremises events or activities. Again, to shut the door on this becoming a farmers market once a month or every now and then, because that could be a temporary-use permif and no temporary events should be allowed. With regards to - I guess, a fundamental question, we talk about a gate at Piper Boulevard. I really appreciate also the applicant eliminating Piper Boulevard as an ingress/egress point for the employees. That's a substantial concession, and I appreciate it as a long-term resident of that area. But I'd like to make sure it's a gate, not a gate arm. We all know how people can get around gate arms, and I think it needs to be a gate. We talked about a double gate. I think that needs to be very, very clear. With regards to this issue about the lease, Mr. Mogelvang raised a question - I have a copy for him if he wants to. And one of the concerns I have - and Jeffand Heidi will probably disagree with me extensively on this, but I'm concerned fundamentally that this is contract zoning at its wors! quite frankly. The lease agreement -- there's a ground lease by and between Collier County and Oakes Farm, Inc. And in azoningprocess, as you all know, it's a quasi-judicial process. It could be a legislative process. It requires substantial competent evidence. And in the lease agreement, Paragraph 4, it says that lessee, which is Oakes Farm, Inc., shall pay all costs to design, consfuct, and maintain an employee parking lo! which lot shall be subject to approval by Collier County, which it sounds good so far, which approval shall not be unreasonably withheld. So the county has already contractually obligated itself, I'd say improperly, to not unreasonably withhold the approval of this rezoning, which I think is problematic and is a fundamental issue that we have with regards to the lease and this whole process. I request that - again, that this be denied. There's been no analysis of it being complementary to the surrounding land uses. The size and magnitude of the requested employee parking hasn't really been articulated except in the TIS, which I find odd, and that TIS is wrong as to the CAT numbers. And, again, if they were to use the landscape area to the east as opposed to landscaping i! they could have had, I'd submit, more employee parking on the east side adjacent to their current parking lot and part of that parking lot. Maybe they thought they would have to amend the Carlton Lakes PUD to do that and didn't want to incur the wrath of the neighbors for that -- I don't know -- or didn't want to open that door. I'd request then that, respectfully, that even with all these new additional provisions, that the rezoning ofthis property be denied. Thank you. CIIAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you. MR. KLATZKOW: As an aside, no zoning may be unreasonably withheld. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Next speaker, James. MR. SABO: The last - CHAIRMAN STRAIN: We're going to have - okay. Then we'll take a break. We'll come back after break after the next speaker. MR. SABO: Very good. Last one, Mara Marzano. MS. MARZANO: My name is Mara Marzano. I've been a resident of Collier County for 18 years, Page 21 of38 August 16,2018 and through tlrat - through the whole 18 years - CHAIRMAN STRAN: Could you spell your last name, too? MS. MARZANO: M-a-r-z as in zebr4 a-n-o. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you. MS. MARZANO: For my entire time I have lived in the proximity of the Immokalee and Livingston Road intersection. lt is an untenable position to put the entry onto Livingston Road and have that bus go across the three lanes of traffic and try to get into the parking lot there. There was a death, I believe, last year at the north gate of Carlton Lakes. It is such a dangerous intersection. It is an intersection in which ig entering season, if you're heading northbound during rush-hour traffic, traffic is at a standstill all the way to -- Immokalee and Livingston to Bonita Beach Road. It is a dangerous, dangerous thing that is being proposed here. And I would just like to say that I entirely support Mr. Pires' position, the positions of my neighbors -- my neighbor, Mr. Grandey, and Mr. Hirschfeld. I am the vice president of the Edgewater Association. We are Cobble Creek Court. We back directly to the building itself for Seed to Table, and we'll be affected across the street now from this particular parking lot. Once upon a time I served on a school board where they wanted to put a building in the wrong place. No doubt the building was needed, but it was the very wrong place. If you put this parking lot here and there are traffrc fatalities that occur as a result of it or serious irjr.ry, that is something that you're going to have to live with. I don't know how many of you have ever bothered to go out there and drive or try and exit the Dunkin Donuts parking lot, try and exit Carlton Lakes Boulevard at the south or the north end and actually seen what is going on there in terms of traffrc and safety. It is not a safe proposal, and it will come back to haunt you. Thank you. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you. And with that, we are going to take a break till 10:40. We'll resume at 10:40 and I'll, at that time, ask if there's any other people who have not spoken that would still wish to speak. Thankyou. (A brief recess was had.) CHAIRMAN STRAIN: If everybody will take their seats, we'll resume the meeting. Okay. Well, we took our break. We left offwith the end of the registered public speakers. And I'd like to make sure that everyone who wanted an opportunity to talk on this matter did so. So is there anybody here who has not registered and who has not spoken who would like to speak? (No response.) CIIAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Seeing none -- COMMISSIONER EBERT: He raised his hand. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Oh, sir, come on up. I'm sorry; I didn't see you. You'll need to identifu yourself and spell your last name. MR. BOVE: My name is John Bove, B-o-v-e. And I just want to make two points about the traffrc and also about the use of the building currently. The question I have is the use of the first -- the use of the building currently. Is there a TCO or ability for approval for commercial use of the building right now? Because there is baking and trucks coming out of the building. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: But that -- sir, that whole issue's outside the scope of today's meeting. I can't answer that. MR. BOVE: Okay. And the second is, there has been two deaths related to the north side entrance on Livingston Road from our community and with the existing traffic. It is about eight-tenths of a mile from Immokalee Road, so it is at a distance that is in need with two communities on either side of Livingston that needs a traffic light very badly. The traffic going north is extensive in the evening, in the rush hours in the evening, starting at 3:00, Page 22 of 38 August 16,2018 and certainly in the moming starting by 6 o'clock going south, people coming to and from work, school, and so on and so forth. So the need for a traffic light for public safety is so importan! if all this particular parking is improved - is approved, but -- because it is a tremendous high-volume area. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I've spoke with transportation during break. They're going to come up and address that issue when we finish with public speakers. MR. BOVE: Okay. Thank you. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody else who has not spoken that would like to speak? No, you've -- we've already heard from you, sir. MR. MOGELVANG: Yeah. I only did four minutes. Can I do one more minute? CHAIRMAN STRAIN: No. Sir, we've already heard. You had your opportunity. We'll move now to staffresponses to some of it. And I'd like to start with our environmental staff, because the fnst gentleman up had environmental issues which he questioned, and Summer Araque is here to address them. MS. ARAQUE: Summer Araque, environmental planning. CIIAIRMAN STRAN: Now, did you hear the first gentleman who spoke today from the neighborhood explaining the black bear issue and other environmental issues he was concerned about on the property? MS. ARAQUE: Yes. So we require a black bear management plan for any areas at time of Site Development Plan where black bear are present in the area. Will there be any garbage on this facility? CI{AIRMAN STRAIN: I imagine there will be litter baskets, but to the effect that people or someone would be throwing stuffout of their car, there's no strucfures on the property. MS. ARAQUE: So, I mean, that would be addressed at time of Site Development Plan. We would request that they're bear proof. That's all. CHAIRMAN STRAN: But your environmental review of this propefty, did it show any issues with species such as bear or anything else on the property where the parking lot's going itselfl And if no! what about that wooded area; do you see that being changed at all? MS. ARAQIIE: No bear on the property, but the bear points are always going to be basically nuisance calls, when we have a bear point. So you wouldn't have a nuisance call here because there's nobody living here; however, there have been reports of bear in this area. We've -- I think they've been in Delasol and probably Carlton Lakes and in this corridor. So we would just say, really, the issue would be the garbage. So make sure that those are bear-proof containers or resistant containers. And then in regards to the vegetation on the property, the entire property that we -- that is the PUD is an FP&L easement so it's not subject to the preservation for the few pines that are on the property. So that, basically, covers the vegetation and the listed species. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you. Anybody have any - go ahead. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Yeah. The gentleman also mentioned rattlesnakes. I haven't seen a decent-size rattlesnake in two decades, and I used to see them all the time. But are there an abnormal amount of rattlesnakes up there? MS. ARAQUE: I would have to look into that. What was the statement about the rattlesnakes? COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKJ: He said that there were rattle -- there's a big rattlesnake problem. That's what I thought I heard. MS. ARAQUE: I believe there's some gopher tortoise on the propelty. Those will need to be relocated, and the rattlesnakes could possibly be addressed during that time. When they go in for the parking lot probably things like rattlesnakes may move ofl but I can take a look at that to see how that can be addressed. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I'm always curious when -- I could see out in Golden Gate where you've got a lot of wildlife corridors, but I'm always curious how bears get into heavily built-up areas like this. What, do they come down the Mirasol flowway or slough or something, or how do they gei all the way in across Livingston Road and across all these big roads, or do they just live in there? MS. ARAQUE: I think they probably come from the east, but I don't think that they live in those particular areas. You know, like we've had them in Berkshire and so forth, but I think they just kind of Page 23 of38 August 16,2018 wander in every now and then. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Do they commute? Come in, go out, and -- MS. ARAQUE: Yes. COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Park and Ride. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Park and Ride. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you, Summer. Appreciate it. Mike, if you could - Mike Sawyer, if you could address the transportation issue, in particular the traffic light that we've heard a couple -- testimony -- some testimony about. MR. SAWYER: Again, for the record, Mike Sawyer, Transportation Planning. I guess, first off, staff is very concerned about any type of safeSr-related transportation issues that come up, and we would share concerns that the neighborhood has. I can also tell you that this particular intersection is definitely on our radar from an operational standpoint. There have been some incremental improvements done both with the signal itself as well as extending some of the tum lanes. As a sideline, this is one of the intersections that actually has an interesting aspect to it in that in the p.m. peak hour, Immokalee actually goes east to west. So p.m. peak, if you go east, the primary direction of the traffic is going east. If you head west, the primary traffrc p.m. peak is going west. So it actually splits at this particular location at Livingston. So that can also cause a bit more conflict points when you've got traffic going in opposite directions like that. What I would like to do, certainly, is take and get email addresses so that I can follow up on this. We do have, when it comes to signals - just to let you know, and I think we've talked about this at other times. We do have a signal warrant process. It is a national and state program that everybody follows. Basically, there's 12 different criteria that you go through to determine if a sigrral is warranted. The particular intersection I believe that they're talking about is the one that's shared with Carlton Lakes and Delasol. It is currently a very wide, full opening which, again, when you've got full openings on a divided six-lane roadway, you are going to have a lot of inherent conflicts with those, especially with a new use like this actually coming in, that would probably also be a good opportunity for when that is operational to do studies possibly before and definitely afterwards. So what I would like to do would be to get some email addresses from the residents and then follow up with them on that. CHAIRMAN STRAN: Okay. Because if you could help them move forward in determining whether or not the county would even allow a light at that intersection, I think that would be a big help, in seeing this maybe come out; at least help that one issue. So the gentlemen -- first two gentlemen here in this row were the ones that were mostly concemed in getting it. I think he's got a card for you. So when we finish, maybe you could grab his card and follow up. MR. SAWYER: Thatwould be great. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Anybody else have any questions of Mike? COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I thought the way you spoke that you think there might be a good idea having a light at this intersection. MR. SAWYER: At this point I haven't studied it at all. We do -- you know, as far as those warrants goes, there's 12 different ones, and there are -- as the chairman pointed out, there are limitations as far as distances from between sigrals as well as major intersections. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: It's a little morbid, but we used to joke about deaths being a warrant. Is there a warrant for so many deaths? MR. SAWYER: Honestly, that is one of the criteria. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: And what is it? MR. SAWYER: I will also tell you that because you've got a full opening, a signal isn't necessarily the only possible solution. There is an opportunity where perhaps a different solution would be possible to do something with that median as far as a modification. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: You mean close the median? MR. SAWYER: Partly close the median would be a part - would be one solution, yes. Page 24 of38 August 16,2018 COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: That's never a good idea. Okay. Just curious. MR. SAWYER: If it's a safety issue, it may be an alternative that you would want to look at. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I live in -- I live near Vanderbilt and Airport. I pick up my grandkids at those two schools up there on a regular basis in the middle of evening rush hour, and I never had a problem. I mean, of course, I'm retired. I'm not in a hurry to go anywhere. Bu! you know, it's -- I don't see a whole big issue. It's just traffic. Traffic moves slowly. But the people who live in that area might have other opinions. MR. EASTMAN: Stan, both of those schools would have traffic lights you could utilize to get to and from. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: But I have to go through this area that they're talking about to get to those schools from where I live, and I, you know -- and that Dunkin Donuts, I use that all the time. And I just never have problems, but maybe I'm just there -- I'm there at evening rush hour, and I, you know, just -- it moves slow, but I don't consider it being dangerous. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Mike? MR. SAWYER: That's why we do studies. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you, Mike. I don't think there's anything else. Nope. Now, there's -- some questions were posed by various members of the public, so before you get into rebuttal, I'd like to focus on the questions first, then whatever other time you want for rebuttal, we'll let you have that time you normally are allowed. The first one is the use of Carlton Lakes Boulevard and how the buses will interact. I didn't know that -- I thought you were going to go down Immokalee Road and make a U-turn or a left turn. I didn't know you were going to use Carlton Lakes Boulevard. Has someone taken a look to see if that is a public or private road or how that all operates? MR. YOVANOVICH: Well, I personally haven't but yes, we've looked at and coordinated with county stafffor the ability to do that. I just think it's important to understand the history of the shuttle bus concept in the first place, and perhaps it's no longer necessary because we're now doing a wall concept along Livingston Road. It was actually county's transportation operations who said we don't want people just jaywalking, if you will, across Livingston Road. Would you provide a shuttle bus to take them to and from your parking lot over to the business across the street, and we, of course, said, sure, no big deal. We'll do that. Now that we have a wall concept, I think it's much easier to funnel people down to Livingston Road and Immokalee Road, and they can simply walk in the identified crosswalk area. I'd like to go back and talk to transportation operations to see if that will resolve their concem about people crossing mid street. But that was the history of the shuttle requirement in the first place. It was in response to that concem. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. MR. YOVANOVICH: So if we could eliminate the shuttle, I think then the comments about using Carlton Lakes Boulevard resolves itself. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. On that -- and I'm not familiar with transportation's position on that, so we might have to ask them to re-explain that. The drop-offpoint if the shuttles came in would be further down Carlton Lakes Boulevard which, again, raises a question: Is that a Carlton Lakes maintained and operated road, or is that one -- I don't understand the ownership of that road, and I'm just wondering how -- if you had looked at it to determine - MR. YOVANOVICH: I have not. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: - you had that right to do even what you're suggesting. MR. YOVANOVICH: I haven't. I'm going to do something I try never to do, but I'm going to assume that the general public is using that now as well as -- we've heard testimony from Carlton Lakes saying how they're using the Dunkin Donuts parking lot to get to lmmokalee Road. It's not a typical gated road that's private. It may be privately owned but open to the public. I don't know the answer, Mr. Strain, to that question. We have that situation probably throughout Collier County where you have -- you have roads that are maintained by a properly owners association or an HOA, but they're open to the general public. I don't Page 25 of38 August 16,2018 know the answer. But I've not been provided any information that would prohibit the use of that road for the employee shuttle buses, and I don't think anybody's testified to that public use. CIIAIRMAN STRAIN: No. I was just - like I said, I had not - I didn't know you were going to use that particular road. I thought you were going to Immokalee, so never did the research on Carlton Lakes Boulevard either. The question was asked how many employee spaces are left after the CAT spaces are removed. Can someone just tell us that answer? MR. YOVANOVICH: I was afraid you were -- do we know the answer? 222. Wow,222. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Someone just asked for the amount, and I just -- that takes care of that. Do you have any objection to restricting -- a restriction against any special events or special-event parking? MR. YOVANOVICH: I don't believe so. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. MR. YOVANOVICH: Wait a minute. I can't say that, can I, Mr. Schmitt? I don't think so. No. Okay. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Well, that's -- COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: You can say it forthaf though. MR. YOVANOVICH: Okay. COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: I don't believe so. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: And do you have any objection to restricting vendors from using any of the parking? The intent is employees, so -- MR. YOVANOVICH: It was never intended for vendors, and I think that language is -- it already says it's employee parking, and the typical interpretation has always been if it doesn't say you can do something, that means you cant, but we'll put that language in to - CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I mean, it doesn't hurt to state it. MR. YOVANOVICH: We'lldo it again. MR. KLATZKOW: The PUD language is the sole use as an employee parking area, right? MR. YOVANOVICH: That's what it says, but we'll go ahead and put that language in. CHAIRMAN STRAN: I mean, a vendor might be a contract employee. I don't know. I'm just suggesting, though, that if any people are vendors, they -- it's not going to hurt to add the language, Jeff. MR. KLATZKOW: Okay. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: It just makes it cleaner. And the other question I'm going to have of Michelle is the type of gate; had a question raised, too. I don't think you can answer that, so... MR. YOVANOVICH: I cannot answerthat. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Then, when she furishes, ifthere's no other questions, we'll ask - it will be rebuttal, and we'll wrap it up. Michelle? There you are. MS. ARNOLD: I can't answer what type of gate we're going to be doing at this point. We're coordinating with the Public Utilities on that and FP&L to figure that whole thing out. I really -- I can't answer that question at this point. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: But you'll have it at the time of SDP? MS. ARNOLD: Yeah. We'll know that by then; we should know that by then. CIIAIRMAN STRAIN: The question was asked. I don't have an answer either, so I thought you might have; that's why I was asking. MS. ARNOLD: No,I don't. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you. And then with that, Rich or Bob, whoever's going to -- you have a rebuttal opportunity if you'd like. MR. YOVANOVICH: Just real briefly. I mean, we obviously have -- we've submitted our application materials. Your staffhas found them suffrcient for purposed of review for the criteria that apply Page 26 of38 August 16,2018 for both the Comp Plan amendment as well as the rezone request. Your staffhas found that we meet all of the criteria. Mr. Mulhere, who's a professional planner, has provided testimony through written documents and through today that we meet all of the criteria. It would be unreasonable to deny a rezone that meets all of the applicable criteria. We would request that the Planning Commission, with the modifications that we've made today, forward a recommendation of approval. In my professional opinion, this is not contract zoning. We still have to meet the criteria. If we don't meet the criteria under the lease, the countlz can say no and would not be in violation of the lease. It's not -- there are other instances where the county owns property that it has contracted to sell or lease, and it's gone through the same type of analysis that we're going through today. It's not contract zoning just simply because the county is the owner of the properfy. We are still obligated to meet the criteria, we've met the criteri4 and we request that the Planning Commission forward both applications to the Board of County Commissioners with a recorrrmendation of approval. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Thank you. And before we close the public hearing -- COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Yeah. Could I ask one question? COMMISSIONER EBERT: I have - CHAIRMAN STRAN: Yeah. Go ahead. Stan. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: And I know this is about the parking lot and not the store. But is the store just a bigger version of the one Oakes Farm has on Davis Boulevard? MR. YOVANOVICH: Well,I don't believe so. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Different concept totally? MR. YOVANOVICH: But I don't know because I haven't been to the store recently on Davis, so I can't provide any factual testimony. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Honestly, that's getting offtopic - COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I know. I'm just curious. I know this doesn't involve the store. I'm just curious. MR. YOVANOVICH: We'll be huppy to talk to you outside of this venue to fill you in on the details. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Okay. Never mind. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: That would be a better opportunity, yes. MR. YOVANOVICH: And then that way I make sure I don't misspeak since it's not really relevant to what we're here for today. COMMISSIONER EBERT: I have a question, and you might not like it. But I'm bringing the store back. How can you not -- how can you get an okay to build Oakes Farm and not contain everything on Oakes Farm? CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Rich, you don't have to answer that. And I'd like to turn the County Attorney's Office. COMMISSIONER EBERT: Jeff - CHAIRMAN STRAIN: We're getting off- COMMISSIONER EBERT: Now, wait a minute. Why -- CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Diane, the store is not part of -- COMMISSIONER EBERT: If you're in Carlton Lakes but you don't have enough parking, you go to some other place that's residential. This is not right. And you're saying that Seed to Table is less space than what Albertson's has. That's not true. CHAIRMAN STRAN: Diane, this is about the PUD for the parking lot. That's all it is. There's not structures on it. Now, your desire to bring in another PUD, I understand that. But this isn't the Board to do it at. COMMISSIONER EBERT: Well, too bad. It's still allrelated. Page 27 of38 August 16,2018 CHAIRMAN STRAIN: It is related only to the extent that it's limited to employee parking. The operations of that store have nothing to do with this parking lot. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I saw it done once before. There was a nursery on Davis Boulevard where Crown Pointe is now, and they put parking in the FP&L easement, and that's how I got familiar with the fact that FP&L generally pays enough for their easement to buy the land, but they don't want the land because then you have maintenance and liability headaches. So we went through exactly the same thing there. And they were allowed to park on the FP&L easement for the nursery. It's about 25 years ago, but -- and eventually that all went away, but I've seen it done before. MR. YOVANOVICH: Not to get into the other property, but if you actually read the FP&L documents, we are not allowed to have any required parking for another project's use on this properly. This is a stand-alone employee parking lot. It has nothing to do with legal requirements for a totally different piece of property. COMMISSIONER EBERT: I'm not -- CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Did you finish your rebuttal? MR. YOVANOVICH: Ithought so. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I believe you did. Anybody else have any questions before we close the public hearing? (No response.) CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Then we'll close the public hearing, and we can start with discussion and then move into a motion if there's some discussion. Does anybody have any discussion? COMMISSIONER EBERT: I do. I will not be approving this, and I'll tellyou why: It is because this is so separate when it really should be all connected. I don't know when you came in front of us for an okay for Oakes Farm. I have no idea when that was brought in front of us. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I can tellyou if you'd like, Diane. It was Carlton Lakes PUD, and it was done -- it was started in 1988, and it was revised in 1992 and again in 1994, '95, and '99. So '99 -- so it was before your time on this board. So that's just to let you know. COMMISSIONER EBERT: That's fine, but it's -- this store is bigger than what Albertson's is, and you're supposed to be able to keep everlthing on your own property, and you're taking the Carlton Lakes and you're putting it over in Willoughby Acres. It is not right. I will not be approving this. CHAIRMAN STRAN: Go ahead, Joe. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Any type of review for the store will still have to meet the parking requirements for the store, period. It has to. It's the - they have to design the parking lot based on the requirements of the square footage of the store. So this has nothing to do with that. If that's an SDP that comes in for approval, they have to have all the required parking because it's a separate entrty. They have to have the required parking for handicap. So this does not waive or alleviate any of the on-site requirements at Carlton Lakes. It does not. It's an addition to as far as parking, but it doesn't relieve them any of the requirements. Is that - I believe that's correct. MR. KLATZKOW: Mr. Schmiu, you may be correct. I'd like to hear staffsay that, though, whether or not staffs going to include this as part of the calculations or, as you said, this is just in addition. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: And I anticipated that question. Staffhad already responded to me on that question. And now we'll get a response for the record. MR. McLEAN: Matt Mclean, director of Development Review. Yes, that's correct, Mr. Schmitt, as you described. The property where the Seed to Table store is has to meet all of the requirements of the Land Development Code on its site and has done so through site development permitting. MR. KLATZKOW: So this is just additional parking. It will not be viewed in the context of the Site Development Plan approval? MR. McLEAN: That's correct. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: That's the way I interpreted it. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Code is one thing. The real world is something else. Most Page 28 of38 August 16,2018 of the time we have people put in so many code spaces that they're not used. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Right. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: And here we have -- we realize that these people might have more need for parking than the code calls for. Code is one thing; the real world is different. COMMISSIONER EBERT: Matt? CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Go ahead, Diane. COMMISSIONER EBERT: I'm going to ask a question of Matt. Matt, is the extra parking needed because ofthe occupancy load ofSeed to Table? COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: It cannot be. MR. KLATZKOW: No. By definition, this additional parking is not needed. COMMISSIONER EBERT: Additional parking is not needed? MR. KLATZKOW: By definition. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I've reviewed the SDP at two different stages, and I can assure you at the last stage I reviewed it the number of parking spaces were -- on the other side were in excess of the required number of parking. I think itwas267 was required, and they have 280, if I'm not mistaken. MR. MoLEAN: That's correct. It's about 15 or so that's more. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: So not only have they met the requirements on the site they're operating on for that, but they've exceeded it. This, again, is a parking lot for employee-only parking; very limited. Anybody else have any discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I -- just a few statements to make. I tried to review this. When it first came in, there were things that I felt weren't properly addressed in response to the neighborhood information meeting. I went through it very carefully. I asked the applicant in a meeting to make some changes that would tighten it up, especially the use of Piper Boulevard. I also asked for the distance of that forested piece to make sure it was substantially wide enough to be a decent buffer even if they hadn't put the buffer in they're intending to. The buffer they're putting in includes a masonry or concrete masonry wall around the entire -- I don't know if it's masonry -- concrete wall around the entire facility, with gates. So, I mean, this is as tight as I can expect to get it with the exception of some of the changes we discussed today. The changes the applicant put on record, the new TIS, the options of the shuttle for Carlton Lakes Boulevard -- axd I would like to suggest Richard, you had - MR. YOVANOVICH: I don't know if it's appropriate. I didn't speak to the gentleman from Carlton Lakes. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: If you can resolve it now, then that might save a stipulation. MR. YOVANOVICH: And if I get this wrong, please correct me. We actually pay to use that road. We pay the association to use the road, so that's why we have the right to use the road. So I didn't know tha! obviously; else I would have said it. But this gentleman who does know corrected me and told me, and I hope I said it right on the record. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. MR. YOVANOVICH: Okay. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: So I guess that answers the question. Then the other two things were special events. They've agreed to a limitation of special events and parking for special events, and they've agreed to adding that no vendors will be using the parking lot. Other than what was already changed today and with those stipulations, I don't know how to make this any tighter. It is a parking lot. There are uses that could be put next to residential that are far more intense than parking lots. This is going to have lighting that's much lower than code generally allows. It will be shielded. The hours of operation and change of shifts are offpeak. I drive that intersection all the time, and I can tell you I empathize with anyhing you have to do on lmmokalee Road, but I don't think this one is going to cause, offpeak, that much of a disturbance. So I would suggest that this is the best we can do, or at least I think we can do at this point. And with that, is there a motion by anybody on the Planning Commission? Page 29 of38 August 16,2018 COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: I make a motion that we approve PL2017003768. That's the Comprehensive Plan. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: CPSS2018-8, and the item is the PUD-PL20170003766. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: The first motion, though, will be just for the small-scale plan amendment; is that okay? COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Small-scale plan amendment for the first motion, and I also -- then I'll make a motion for the other one as well. CHAIRMAN STRAN: Okay. So that's a motion to recommend approval? COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Subject to the stipulations we discussed: The additional language in the PUD regarding -- that was introduced at today's meeting, and the stipulations of no vendors and special events. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Is there a second? COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I'll second. CFLq,IRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Now, not all those will end up being inthe small-scale plan amendment side of it, but the intent is clear. With that, is there any further discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN STRAIN: All in favor, sigxifu by saying aye. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Aye. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Aye. COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Aye. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Aye. COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Aye. CFIAIRMAN STRAIN : Anybody opposed? COMMISSIONER EBERT: I do, and the reason for it is if you have enough parking over in the Carlton Lakes in that parking lot with 280, let the employees park there. CHAIRMAN STRAN: Okay. Sothe motion carries 5-1. With that, Mr. Schmitt, did you want to make the second -- COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Yes. I'll make a motion forthe complementary item, at least. It's the PUD zoning,PUDZ-PL2017003766, and that's the PUD amendment. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I'll second. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: With the same stipulation added to it that you -- COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Same stipulation. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: : reiterated in the first one? COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Subject to the stipulation that -- of the language as introduced today that made the changes to the use: No vendor uses and no special events. COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Second. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Made by Patrick (sic), seconded by Patrick. Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN STRAN: All those in favor, signify by saying aye. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKJ: Aye. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Aye. COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Aye. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Aye. COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody opposed? COMMISSIONER EBERT: Aye. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Motion carries 5-1. Thank you, all. ***That will take us to the next item on today's agenda. This is a continued item from last -- or two Page 30 of38 August 76,2018 meetings ago, I believe. It's called the White Lake Corporate Park Planned Unit Development. It's PL20t70004428. All those wishing to testiff on behalf of this item, please rise to be sworn in by the court reporter. (The speakers were duly swom and indicated in the affirmative.) CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Disclosures? We'll start with Tom. MR. EASTMAN: None. CHAIRMAN STRAN: Stan? COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: None. CHAIRMAN STRAN: Diane? COMMISSIONER EBERT: None. CHAIRMAN STRAN: I have talked to the applicant, the utility stafi the stafl gone through a lot of the files, got some cleanup language that came through, and I think there's even more as a result of utilities review that might be put on the overhead today. Diane (sic)? COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Nothing. CIIAIRMAN STRAN: Or Karen. I'm sorry. Joe? COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: None. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Patrick? COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Just discussions with staff. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Whoever's going to make the presentation. MR. VANASSE: Good morning. My name is Patrick Vanasse. I'm a certified planner with RWA. Happy to be here today to discuss this PUD amendment to the White Lake Corporate Park. Joining me this morning is John Agnelli, who is in the audience who's representing the applicant. I've got a brief presentation. I know you've got the information in your packet. I can forego the presentation. I know everybody wants to get to lunch at some point. So at your discretion I can walk you through our request orjust go to questions, comments, and talk about the substantive issues that have been changed since the initial application. CIIAIRMAN STRAIN: I think you ought to just run through the changes since the last Planning Commission meeting so the record's clear, and then we'll -- and any other issues we have, we'll get into them with you. MR. VANASSE: Okay. So we continued the last hearing two weeks ago because a few comments came up. There was discussion with staffabout those issues. The first one wus this conversion ratio that was part of our request. The existing PUD has a conversion ratio in there. There's a commercial tract with a square-footage limitation associated with commercial space. The conversion ratio says that if you want to build hotel rooms, a commensurate amount of commercial space is deducted from that total. Recently the county has heard certain other petitions where the conversion ratios were getting very complicated, very confusing so we were asked to go back, and instead ofjust doing a very quick version analysis that we provided to staff, to do a full TIS and, through that TIS, come up with a trip cap for the commercial component. And that's what we did. We worked with staff. We did a full TIS. That should be part of your packet. Staffreviewed it. Staffsupported it. And we now have the trip cap identified in two sections. The PUD - I'll put that on the illustrator. One is Section 4.2. And as you can see, the portion that is underlined is the new language. And we capped the trips associated with p.m. peak hour. The other place where the cap is identified is in the PUD commitments under 5.5. And, again, that p.m. peak-hour cap is reiterated in that commitment. Another issue that came up was associated with an existing condition in the PUD for internal utilities looping. I think I'm going to have to provide a little background information to address this issue. The White Lake PUD was initially approved 29 years ago. One of the frst parcels to develop within that PUD was the Shaw Aerospace parcel. I'll pull up the PowerPoint, because I've got an exhibit of that; it will be easier to follow along. Page 31 of38 August 16,2018 Can you switch over to the - okay. This is the PUD where my cursor is, is the northemmost -- this large parcel was where Shaw Aerospace was located. And when they went in and built and obtained their permits, they sized their utility lines only for their project, and they didn't stub out those lines to allow for this internal looping. So we were asked by staff, as part of this amendment, please address this condition of intemal looping. Let's change it, and let's make sure that it's not something that hangs over this PUD moving forward. So, as mentioned, this project has been in operation for 29 years. The utility service provided with those existing utilities is excellent. There is no issue. There is no need for the looping to make the system work. So the language was changed to address that and to address any concerns with the adjacent property owners if they wanted to connect to our system. And what was clarified in there was that we shall provide utility easements for any connection from the adjacent properties. I think through the discussion with Commissioner Strain and staff, the concern was we just need to make it very clear in that language that for some reason should anybody within the White Lake Commerce Park request external looping, the cost to do that would not be borne by the county, by the county or public utilities. So we have made some changes to that condition. I have that with me. I will put that on the illustrator and pass out some copies. We've met with staff, the utilities stafi to go over that condition. We have also met with the County Attomey's Office. Everybody is in support of the proposed language. And I just need this : to find this in my paperwork here. Can we switch over to the overhead? The section highlighted in yellow is that new language that would not be part of your packet bul again, that we've worked with Utilities Department, we've worked with the County Attomey's Office. Everybody is in support of this language and, basically, the language makes it very clear that any cost, should internal or external looping ever be requested, shall not be borne by the county. So with that said, that * MS. ASHTON-CICKO: So the language is in your package. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Pardon me? MS. ASHTON-CICKO: The language is in your package. This language did make it. MR. VANASSE: Okay. That is -- it did make it? Sorry. Well, I did make it, so you do have it in your packet. That concludes the changes that were made since the initial packet was sent out, and I can answer any question you may have. CHAIRMAN STRAN: Just real - just a quick question, I think. Let's see. No, I don't: did this make it into the - MS. ASIilON-CICKO: Yeah, it's in my packet. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. MR. SABO: Supplemental report. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Yeah, okay. Now I've got it. Anybody have any questions ofthe applicant? Go ahead, Joe. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: As far as the design requirements, you still have to comply with all of the requirements as specified in Activity Center No. 9? MR. VANASSE: Correct. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Yeah, okay. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: It's been a long time since I saw this project. There's -- is there a reason they didn't loop - they didn't stick a stub-out of the road out of Shaw Arrow? This - usually you would see a loop road around the whole project, but this one -- Shaw Arrow is like a cul-de-sac, and there's a cul-de-sac coming from the other end, and that's it. Like it was never intended to tie together. MR. VANASSE: My understanding is, it wasn't. I don't have that full history. I've been on this project in recent years, but dating back 30 years... Page 32 of38 August 16, 2018 COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I think you'll see my name on some of that stufffrom 30 years ago, and I'm trying to remember exactly why we did that, and... MR. VANASSE: I don't have the answer. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: John? MR. VANASSE: John may know. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I don't think John even knows. I was just curious if anybody remembered, because my memory's a little tuzzy. Old age. CI{AIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody else? (No response.) CHAIRMAN STRAIN: There is one change to the language that you've added here that is not in the version that was sent to us. In the version that's in the PUD in front of us, Page 7 of 8, the fifth line up from the bottom says, "Land acquisition, piping, and other utilities/infrastructure." What you've got here is land acquisition, engineering, permitting, and construction costs for piping or other utility infrastructure." So I think you've enhanced that a bit from what's in the PUD I've got in front of me, and I don't know if I've got the most current one. I believe that came as a request of utilities. They added some of that to make sure the construction costs and everything else were included. MS. ASFION-CICKO: That's correct. It's not in the version you have. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. So this does need to be entered into the PUD. So you do need to put your highlighted language in there. MR. VANASSE: Yep. MS. ASHTON-CICKO: It's just not the whole thing. It was just the engineering permit. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Right. You'll make the corrections? MR. VANASSE: Yes. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. I don't have anything else. With that, we'll go to staffreport. James? MR. SABO: James Sabo, for the record. Staff Zoning Division recommends approval. CFIAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody have any questions of stafl (No response.) CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Is there any members of the public here to speak on this matter? (No response.) CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Hearing none, we will close the public hearing and entertain a motion. Anybody on the Planning Commission? COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: I'll make a motion that we approve PUDA-PL20170004428, White Lake Corporate Park. COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: So moved. CFIAIRMAN STRAIN: With the subject change that was innoduced? COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: With the language that was infoduced, yes. COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Second. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Motion made and seconded. Discussion? (No response.) CHAIRMAN STRAIN: All in favor, signifu by saying aye. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Aye. COMMISSIONER EBERT: Aye. CFI,AIRMAN STRAIN: Aye. COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Aye. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Aye. COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody opposed? Page 33 of38 August 16,2018 Qrlo response.) CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Motion carries 6-0. Thank you. MR. VANASSE: Thank you. CIIAIRMAN STRAIN: ***\"*1 item up, and last one for today, is 9D. It's PL20170001326. lt's the Esperanza Place RPUD located on the north side of Immokalee Drive. All those wishing to testify on this item, please rise to be sworn in by the court reporter. (The speakers were duly swom and indicated in the affirmative.) CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thankyou. Disclosures: We'll start with Tom. MR. EASTMAN: None. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: None. CI{AIRMAN STRAN: Diane? COMMISSIONER EBERT: None. CHAIRMAN STRAN: I spoke with the applicant's representative, Mr. Arnold, and went through the various records that I could find in the file system. COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Nothing. CI{AIRMAN STRAIN: Karen? Joe? COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: I asked Wayne Arnold two questions just prior to the meeting. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Patrick? COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: None. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. With that, Wayne, it's all yours. MR. ARNOLD: Great. Good morning, Chairman and Planning Commission members. I'm Wayne Arnold, certified planner with Q. Grady Minor & Associates. With me today is Dotty Cook, who is with Rural Neighborhoods and part of the ownership team; I have Matt Hermanson from Q. Grady Minor & Associates who's assisting on the engineering aspects of the project; David Corbin is the project architecture that's representing the shelter component of the project; and Jim Banks was our traffic engineering component. We're all here to answer questions that you may have. We want to give you as much information as you may need to hopefully support the project. Esperanza Place is a partially developed what is currently a residential only PUD in Immokalee off of Immokalee Drive. There are a series of multifamily buildings that have been constructed, and the intent of the amendment is to take part of what is known as Tract A and allow for group housing use for the emergency shelter and transitional housing component that we're proposing. That, of course, displaces an area that could be used for more of the housing. So we're having a reduction in the overall density to account for the areathat is proposed to be developed for the shelter. You can see the bottom left of the exhibit where the existing multifamily homes have been built, some of the water management system's in place, and then part of the internal street infrastructure has been constructed. That is the existing master plan. You can see that it depicts on the left side of the project the series of multifamily buildings, some of which have been constructed. The northern part of Tract A is where the group housing component is proposed to be, and that results in a modification to the master plan that looks like this. And you can see we've taken out the series of buildings to the north. So Tract A would allow continuation of the multifamily buildings; it would allow for the group housing. We also added "single-family" reference because the emergency shelter may, in fact, build some transitional housing that would be separate cottage-type structures. So we would put those in as a single-family type residence, similar to what the local shelter has completed already. We've, obviously, added group housing development standards, and we added reference to the childcare center that could be a component of not only the multifamily residential but part of the shelter itself where they would have some childcare services. That, in essence, are the changes that we're proposing. I do have a correction in the PUD document, Page 34 of38 August 16,2018 Mr. Chairman, which is Exhibit A to the ordinance. The lead-in paragraph under the residential component still references the old density of 8.2 units per acre. We're, obviously, reducing the number of units. It now equates to a density of about 5.03 dwelling units per acre. You were provided with the affordable housing density bonus agreement in your package. I understand you-all don't take separate action on that. But there probably will need to be an adjustment in there, too, to reflect a percentage change that Cormac pointed out to me this morning. It's a minor edit. It doesn't affect the density. This project was previously approved and needed the eight units per acre. We now need the density of five. So we're asking for a bonus density of - eflectively of one dwelling unit per acre. Your staffhas found it consistent with the Comprehensive Plan. And with that, I'll be happy to answer any questions that you might have. David Corbin's here that's been doing work. If you have more specifics about the shelter component, he's got a floor plan and things ofthat nature ifanyone cares to see that. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Anybody have any questions of the applicant? (No response.) CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Wayne, I've just got one question, so just two points. At two difflerent locations, when you said single-family, you said "single-family detached dwelling units," but yet in your standards table you've got "detached and attached." Why don't you just say "single-family dwelling units"? What does it matter whether it's detached or attached in these parcels since they can -- most of them had them originally anyway? MR. ARNOLD: So just to be clear, Mr. Strain, under the Exhibit A, lA. CHAIRMAN STRAN: IB. MR. ARNOLD: One B, where it says "detached," you're suggesting just to simply strike and just say "single-family"? CHAIRMAN STRAIN: "Single-family dwelling units," like you say ahead of it "multifamily dwelling units." I'm not sure why anybody would care. And you say that you have a similar reference on Tract C on Page 3 of 1 l under lB. MR. ARNOLD: Right. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: So, I mean, it doesn't really make a difference. MR. ARNOLD: It doesn't to me. I know that Tract C was unique because it was going to be truly a single-family detached residence. But I'm happy to strike the reference. I don't think it changes any'thing of substance. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I don't think it does either, so I would suggest that. Other than that, there wasn't anything else that I saw I had any questions on. Anybody else? (No response.) CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Is there a staffreport? MR. SABO: Yes, Mr. Chairman. James Sabo, forthe record. ZoningDivision reviewed the petition and recommends approval. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Any questions of stafP (No response.) CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Hearing none, are there any registered public speakers, Ray? MR. BELLOWS: No speakers have registered. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Any members of the public wish to speak on this issue? (No response.) CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Hearing none, we will - MR. STONE: Chairman Strain? Scott Stone, for the record. Just for clarification, the affordable housing agreement will not be part of the PUD documen! so when it goes to the Board, they're going to be separate agenda items. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Good idea. Thank you. Okay. With that, we'll close the public hearing and entertain a motion. The only change would be the change - or striking of the word "detached" in two locations and then separating ouithe aflordable Page 35 of38 August 16,2018 housing and those corrections that Wayne noted for the record. MR. ARNOLD: You need to correct the density to be 5.03 instead of 8. CI{AIRMAN STRAIN: 5.03, okay. Is there a motion? COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: So moved. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: To recommend approval subject to the changes discussed? COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Correct. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Is there -- COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Second. CHAIRMAN STRAN: Second by Karen. Discussion? (No response.) CFIAIRMAN STRAIN: All in favor, signiff by saying aye. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Aye. COMMISSIONER EBERT: Aye. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Aye. COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Aye. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Aye. COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Aye. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN STRAN: Motion carries 6-0. MR. ARNOLD: Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you very much. MR. ARNOLD: Thankyou. CFIAIRMAN STRAIN: And that gets us through today's agenda. And it takes us -- there's no new business listed. There's no old business listed. Is there any public comment? COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I have a question. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Yes, sir. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I like this new system where I can get online and look at the packet except what I get is a link to something, and every page is consecutively numbered. I can't access an individual piece of it. Like, if I want to access this last one, I have to go through it all, find what page it's on, write the page down, and keep that in there. Is it functioning like that for everybody -- COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Yes. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: -- or am Ithe only one that's - thatjust - CHAIRMAN STRAIN: You guys that use Microsoft that's Microsoft. That's -- yes. That's why I don't use Microsoft. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: You know, I might go back to the thumb drive, because the thumb drive I would get it, and I could access each individual piece. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: I think what you do is download it, and it downloads to a PDF, which is what you got on your thumb drive, correct? COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Yeah. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: And you're reading itthrough a PDF reader. You can make notes on it or other -- COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: So if I download to a PDF, it will have individual sections on it? COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: You download -- no. It's still a merged PDF document. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Okay. Then I don't like it. I'll live with it, but I don't like it. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: You would have to then refer to your notes. How does it - you can -- CHAIRMAN STRAN: Apple has built-in programs where you can separate it all out, yeah. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: I mean, you could go to a PDF reader and separate, but -- COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Yeah, but it's difficultto get itthe different one -- you know, Page 36 of38 August 16,2018 when I'm at home and I've got all the time in the world, I can go page after page and scroll and scroll, and all of a sudden I'm at Page 329, arrd here I mark ig it's the second item. But when I'm in here, that's -- it's difficult to move around the document. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: I agree. CFL{IRMAN STRAN: You know, it might help if you went back and -- I mean, I'm sure Judy, if she's watching, is probably cringing under her desk now. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Hi, Judy. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: But you might want to just get the flash drives, because they worked for you, didn't they? COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: They worked fine, yeah. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: You might want to just ask Judy to give you a flash drive from now on. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I'm thinking of going back to that. CIIAIRMAN STRAIN: To me - I didn't initiate what you're dealing with. And that's one reason -- COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: See, I thought we'd get a system like when you get into the Board agend4 you can pop things up and get to individual items, and they all have their own individual sections in there. You can move around easily - CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Maybe that's possible -- COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: -- but our agenda's not set up like the Board agenda. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: I believe that's possible. When they load it into the -- would you check, Ray -- MR. BELLOWS: Yeah, I think it does work that way. I'm looking at it on a phone, and it's pulling up the staffreport independently, the PUD ordinance independently. So it should work. I'm on the Accela link. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Okay. So I'm doing something wrong, you're telling me? MR. BELLOWS: Yes,I believe you are. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: You know, I'm going to go with the thumb drive. COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Have your grandchildren show you how to use it. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I have three grandchildren. I will bring them to the meeting if I can get them out of school up there on Immokalee Road, because it's so hard to travel up Livingston Road this time of day. CIIAIRMAN STRAIN: Before you go to the thumb drive, to save Judy a lot of work, would you just bring your computer to Ray one of these days and ask him -- COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: It's here. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: -- to show you? Well, maybe you can do it while we're here today after we finish. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: He showed me last time -- MR. BELLOWS: Keep playing with it. COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: - and I got it up, but it's the same thing. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: I mean, I take my -- I'll make it into a PDF so I can make notes on the document. Once you do that, it's one single PDF document unless I go in and flag it with the -- COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Im going to go with the thumb drive. Could I get a thumb drive next time? MR. BELLOWS: I'll talk to Judy, and we'll -- but I think you still should play with it, because I think it is very useful. I frnd it very useful. COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Stan? COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I'm too old to play with ig Ray. CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. I think we've had enough public comment. Is there a motion to adjoum? COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Motion to adjourn. CHAIRMAN STRAN: Seconded by? All of us. We're out of here. Thank you. Page 37 of38 August 16, 2018 ******* There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair atll.'37 a.m. COLLIER COLINTY PLANNING COMMISSION ATTEST CRYSTAL K. KINZEL, CLERK OF TI{E CIRCUIT COURT & COMPTROLLER These minutes approved by the Board on as presented X or as corrected TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, NC., BY TERRI LEWIS, COURT REPORTER AND NOTARY PIIBLIC. Page 38 of38