CLB Minutes 08/15/2018 August 15,2018
MINUTES
OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD
August 15, 2018
Naples, Florida
LET IT BE REMEMBERED that the Collier County Contractors' Licensing
Board, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 AM in
REGULAR SESSION in Administrative Building "F," 3' Floor, Collier County
Government Complex, Naples, Florida, with the following Members present:
Chairman: Michael Boyd
Vice Chair: Kyle Lantz
Members: Terry Jerulle
Richard Joslin
Robert Meister
Matthew Nolton
Patrick White
Absent: Gerard Shannon
ALSO PRESENT:
Everildo Ybaceta— Supervisor, Contractors' Licensing Office
Kevin Noell, Esq. — Assistant Collier County Attorney
Jed Schneck, Esq. —Attorney for the Contractors' Licensing Board
Reggie Smith— Contractors' Licensing Compliance Officer
Joe Nourse— Contractors' Licensing Compliance Officer
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Co er County
COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD
AGENDA
AUGUST 15, 2018
9:00 A.M.
COLLIER COUNTY GOVERNMENT CENTER
ADMINISTRATIVE BUILDING
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS CHAMBERS
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE
PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD
OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THAT TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH
THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
I. ROLL CALL:
II. ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS:
III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
A. June 20, 2018
V. PUBLIC COMMENTS:
A.
VI. DISCUSSION:
A.
VII. REPORTS:
A.
VIII. NEW BUSINESS:
A. ORDERS OF THE BOARD
B. NICHOLAS H. JAMES— REVIEW OF EXPERIENCE— ELECTRICAL CONTRACTOR
C. STEVEN MARANZ— REVIEW OF EXPERIENCE— RESIDENTIAL CONTRACTOR
D. OSCAR VILLA—SECOND ENTITY— NATIONAL TILE AND MARBLE, INC
IX. OLD BUSINESS:
A. JEFFREY BUMPUS— NORTHERN BREEZE - EXPIRED PERMITS UPDATE
X. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
A. CASE: 2018-08 GEORGE GAREAU —THE ALUMINUM STORE— EXPIRED PERMITS
XI. NEXT MEETING DATE: WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 19, 2018
ADMINISTRATIVE BUILDING
THIRD FLOOR IN COMMISSIONER'S CHAMBERS
3299 E. TAMIAMI TRAIL
NAPLES, FL 34112
August 15,2018
Any person who decides to appeal a decision of this Board will need a record of the
proceedings and may need to ensure that a verbatim record of said proceedings is made,
which record includes the testimony and evidence upon which any Appeal is to be made.
I. ROLL CALL:
Chairman Michael Boyd opened the meeting at 9:02 AM and read the procedures to be
followed to appeal a decision of the Board.
Roll Call was taken; a quorum was established; seven (7) voting members were present.
II. AGENDA-ADDITIONS, CHANGES,OR DELETIONS:
Deleted:
• Under Item X, "Public Hearings,"the County requested to Withdraw the following:
o Case#2018-08: George Gareau, Respondent, d/b/a The Aluminum Store
Everildo Ybaceta, Supervisor - Contractors' Licensing Office,requested to amend the
Agenda by withdrawing the case which had been scheduled for a Public Hearing. He stated
the Contractor had come into compliance.
Richard Joslin moved to approve the County's request to amend the Agenda. Vice
Chairman Kyle Lantz offered a Second in support of the motion.
Carried unanimously, 7—0.
III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
Richard Joslin moved to approve the Agenda as amended. Vice Chairman Kyle Lantz
offered a Second in support of the motion. Carried unanimously, 7—0.
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES—JUNE 20,2018:
Richard Joslin moved to approve the Minutes of the June 20, 2018 Meeting as submitted.
Vice Chairman Kyle Lantz offered a Second in support of the motion.
Carried unanimously, 7—0.
V. PUBLIC COMMENT:
(None)
VI. DISCUSSION:
• Vice Chairman Kyle Lantz noted the Board had been informed during the June
meeting that a new member had been appointed, Gerard Shannon, but had been
excused from attending that meeting. He stated Mr. Shannon was not in attendance
at the August meeting.
• Patrick White inquired if Mr. Shannon had asked to be excused.
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• Everildo Ybaceta replied, "No." He confirmed that Mr. Shannon had been sent the
standard notification email which is sent to all Board members reminding them of
the upcoming meeting. He further stated Mr. Shannon had not replied to the email
and was deemed to be"Absent" from the August meeting.
• Patrick White asked if the Board was expected to acknowledge receipt of Form 8B
entitled"Memorandum of Voting Conflict for County, Municipal, and Other Local
Public Officers."
• Everildo Ybaceta confirmed the document had been sent by the Board's attorney to
the Chairman.
• Attorney Jeb Schneck explained Chairman Boyd had abstained from voting at the
June meeting in the case of Len Ciarrocchi who was contesting the Citations which
had been issued to him due to a conflict of interest, i.e.,both the Chairman and the
Respondent were State-certified Contractors in the same trade. He noted once Form
8B is submitted to the Clerk, it would become a public record and part of the
minutes for the meeting.
• Patrick White asked for clarification concerning the Agenda item from the last
meeting.
It was noted the case was heard under Item VIII-C, "New Business."
• Richard Joslin noted he had been contacted by a Code Enforcement officer who
asked him if a Residential Building Contractor could pull a permit to build a
swimming pool. Mr. Joslin researched the question with the State of Florida
Department of Business and Professional Regulation—the answer was, "absolutely
not."
VII. REPORTS:
(Will be heard at the end of the proceedings)
VIII. NEW BUSINESS:
A. Orders of the Board:
Patrick White moved to approve authorizing the Chairman to sign the Orders of the
Board. Terry Jerulle offered a Second in support of the motion.
Carried unanimously, 7—0.
(Note: The individuals who testified in the following cases under Item VIII, "New
Business,"were first sworn in by the Attorney for the Board.)
B. Nicholas H.James—Review of Experience (Master Electrical License)
(d/b/a Nick James Electric, LLC)
Chairman Boyd asked Mr. James to explain his background and experience.
Nicholas James stated he had prepared a one-page summary of his education and
experience. He had copies for the Board and stated he could read the document into
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the record. He requested to include the document in the information packet presented to
the Board.
Patrick White moved to approve entering the Applicant's one-page Summary into the
record. Matthew Nolton offered a Second in support of the motion.
Carried unanimously, 7—0.
The document was distributed to the Board.
Vice Chairman Lantz questioned the Applicant:
Q. Are you currently a Journeyman?
A. I have been since 2005.
Q. So, you clearly have been a Journeyman for more than 24 months?
A. Oh, yes, definitely.
Q. And did you pass both tests?
A. As far as I know, both tests ...
Everildo Ybaceta: For the record, yes, he did pass both tests in 2018, i.e., Business
Procedures (Score: 92%) and Unlimited Master Electrical (Score: 80%).
Mr. Ybaceta stated the Applicant met every criteria, except for his experience. He
further stated he could not completely verify the Applicant's experience for the
24-month period because the Applicant had been self-employed.
A. Recently, because Doug Foster—he's a local contractor and has been in the
construction business for 30 or 40 years ... he's getting a little older and is winding
down. I can read the summary. Basically, after high school, I began working for
Accent Electric from 1997 to 1998 doing mostly commercial. (He has photographs
of some of the residential and commercial jobs that he did.) From 1999 to 2000, he
worked for Tim at Tropical Electric.
Richard Joslin questioned the Applicant:
Q. On Page 1 of your letter to the Board, you stated you have 4.75 years of electrical
school. Where was that?
A. 3.75 years at Lorenzo Walker Institute of Technology—Electrical Apprenticeship
Program and one year at the Tri-County Apprenticeship Academy program.
Richard Joslin directed his question to Staff: In the past we have been able to accept
some of the education toward his experience.
Everildo Ybaceta: Every year of school counts as .75. But it is not to exceed more
than half of the requirement.
Patrick White: That would give him one 12-month period of the required 24?
Everildo Ybaceta: Correct.
Vice Chairman Lantz: Is that Continuing Ed?
Nicholas James: Yes, on Page 2. There's no doubt that I have more than enough
experience. First off, I definitely appreciate what you guys are doing. You are
ultimately responsible for the people who are going out and taking care of our town. I
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totally get that. I actually told (gestured to Staff)him that if he were to come to me and
say I definitely have the experience but haven't been doing it very recently, I'd probably
make him go through this process as well. Regardless of what happens, I'm excited to
be here.
All the way from high school, I have been taught construction. My uncle has been a
Master Electrician for almost 30 years. Another uncle is a plumber. My Dad is a Master
Framer and Finisher. I mean, I've got 8 or 10 years if not more—I just can't prove it.
So that's why I only put seven or eight years on paper because I was dealing with Joann
who wanted everything verified on paper to notarize. To be honest, I couldn't get a
letter from Accent Electric or Design Electric. They are still around but don't remember
me because I didn't work for them for very long. Other than that, I was a supervisor for
31/2 years for Signature and I built, like, 260 homes from slab to CIO ["Certificate of
Occupancy"]. I was one of two supers—Hal Law is still around. He signed a notarized
letter—he's getting older too, but you can call him to verify. So, I mean, a ton of
experience there. At Signature everything was going great until the owner said he had
cancer. He called Hal and me from the hospital one night and said he was shutting
everything down. From there, I went to Bonita and met Doug Foster through a painter.
I think he is State-certified—he has to be ... he does commercial ... and I worked for him
for a good four years solid. I've worked with him more than that but, again, if you want
actual four-year increments ... that's why I only put four years. I've done plenty of
residential but also commercial. I've done two office build-outs and three restaurant
remodels which doesn't really count for electrical experience. But I've been in business
as Home Watch—it's small—but I never had any issues.
I do think this is important (holding a Certificate of Completion) — 14 hours of Electrical
Continuing Education—completed on July 24, 2018 —to keep up with the code changes
mainly AFCI and GFCI requirements. I already have the license—I don't need it. I
worked for Eric at Advanced Electric—everybody knows he's really good. So, if I by
chance have an issue, I always consult him. I mean, I'll be happy to answer any
questions that you have.
Patrick White: I just have one, Mr. Chair. Is it your sworn testimony today that all the
facts that you just read from your summary sheet are accurate?
Nicholas James: Definitely.
Richard Joslin: On your sheet, you state from 2006 to 2007 that you worked for
Advanced Electric as a crew leader and driver. It doesn't state that you were doing
electrical work.
Nicholas James: Advanced is a small company—he only has four guys, and everybody
has to work including him.
Richard Joslin: For Elite Electric, you listed the same information that you were a
crew leader and driver which leads me to believe that you may have been on a job and
probably driving people to the job, but it doesn't say that you were doing electrical
work.
Nicholas James: The summary is just a super brief snapshot of the years—I just put
years down, yeah, I mean, nobody drives people around—you `gotta work ... if that's the
question.
Richard Joslin: I'm just quoting what you wrote.
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Nicholas James: No problem.
Vice Chairman Lantz: As an electrician, I'd consider a crew leader—you've got one
or two guys working underneath you—you're the guy twisting all the joints and ...
Nicholas James: Yeah, I mean Eric is the main guy. It just showed that I had some
responsibility to take care of the van, take care of the jobs and plans and ... you mop the
floors and check notes and forms ...
Terry Jerulle: Mr. Lantz, do you have a state license?
Vice Chairman Lantz: Correct.
Terry Jerulle: So, is it a Journeyman or a Master?
Vice Chairman Lantz: The State doesn't do "Journeyman" or"Master,"but it would
be the equivalent of a Master.
Terry Jerulle: So, if he had a state license ... he wouldn't be here.
Vice Chairman Lantz: Well, he'd have a hard time getting a state license because for a
State license, your experience has to be within the previous six years. The State only
does one license—it doesn't do a Journeyman and then a Master—it just does a Master.
There are other things—you have different experience if it's within twelve years ... I
think that's probably why you're going for ...
Nicholas James: Yes. That's why I started this whole process with Ian Jackson ...
about sixteen months ago. Basically, I missed the State by a year or a year and a half
because I'm an idiot—what else can I say? I should have done this ten years ago—I get
it,but that's life. The only other thing I can I say is that I've got all the insurance— a
two-million-dollar policy. I mean, me personally, I'm financially secure. I have no
debt. I certainly don't have a fancy home,but I own it outright. Probably even more
than just the electrical experience is just—it's getting up and caring—that's the secret. I
actually have a lot of admiration for you guys ... it might take 20 years, but I want to be
on this Board because I see what you're trying to do. Ultimately if you just listen to
what somebody wants and do the right thing at the right time, you're good.
Vice Chairman Lantz: The only question I have is—and I don't know if it is
specifically a requirement for a County level—what do you have for three-phase
experience?
Nicholas James: Sure. Accent Electric—one of my first jobs—obviously I wasn't a
foreman-- that's all three-phase, all commercial. Design Electric is pretty much the
only thing that wasn't—you guys know they just do high-end. Elite and even Tropical
... Tim had a couple—three or four-- small build-outs on a strip mall—ten thousand
square feet on Airport Road. Another huge project on Immokalee and Airport—that
entire church ... I forgot the name—that was all three-phase.
Vice Chairman Lantz: So, 277 ... 480 ... what kind of...?
Nicholas James: 208 ... 277 ... I'm kind of drawing a blank ... Accent only did common
areas—that's all three-phase ... the clubhouse, the spa, the pool, the gym, plus all the
outside lighting. Even Elite—when they were starting out—this was a while ago-- they
did more commercial than people would think. Right across from San Carlos Park—that
entire strip mall—literally across from that concrete arch—at Elite, I literally did that
with two guys—ever single one of those—that's all commercial, three-phase. Even with
Doug (Foster)—not electric work but I've been around it many times. All kinds of
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service ... I was running service for probably everybody except Gulf States—they are all
industrial. Greg Hamm is probably the best electrician ... period. He was my foreman.
I'll never do industrial three-phase. But there's the water treatment plant and several lift
stations around the area—that's all three-phase. I don't know if that answers your
question. I guess high rises—Elite did do several that were all three-phase, I think at
Pelican Landing. I think they are still there now building another one. I hope that
answers your question.
Vice Chairman Lantz: I'm happy with his response.
Richard Joslin: I'd just like to—you were licensed in 2005 but you didn't renew in
2010. Why didn't you renew?
Chairman Boyd: He was reinstated in 2010.
Nicholas James: I wasn't aware that it was inactive. I think it's current.
Richard Joslin: I'm sorry—I read this wrong. I thought that you were—okay, we
reinstated your license in 2010.
Nicholas James: The only issue that you guys might have—and I can totally
understand—is the bankruptcy. But that was—ten or fifteen years ago. The only reason
was because of a death and divorce at the same time.
Terry Jerulle: So, Mr. Lantz, would you give him a license with no restrictions —he
can do anything electrical in Collier County?
Vice Chairman Lantz: Sure. I think that—before our conversation—I was convinced
that he had met the legal requirements. He's been a Journeyman for thirteen years—and
he only needed two, whether he was super active or not. I think he clearly has met the
requirements.
Nicholas James: Again, I totally agree with what Evy was saying back months ago—
he just wanted to make sure that I had the instruction—and I totally get that. And even
not being an electrician, I did all the homes for Signature and obviously, that's a ton of
experience. Doug is just a good guy and he cares —he always has a good product. It's
not like I forgot how to do electric work.
Richard Joslin: I'm seeing four different electrical companies that you worked for but
I'm not seeing one of them has filled out information for you to verify what you did or
how you did it or whatever. I'm not seeing a record of it which is why you are here.
Nicholas James: Notarized letters? There should be—on page 21 there's a notarized
from Doug Foster; on Page 22 there's one from Gulf States; there's two separate ones
from Elite—one from eight years ago and a current one from 2017; and from Advanced
Electric on Page 18.
Richard Joslin: Okay—that's enough. I just couldn't get more letters from contractors
--- I worked for more electrical contractors but ...
Vice Chairman Kyle Lantz moved to approve Nicholas James'application to obtain a
Master Electrical License. Patrick White offered a Second in support to the motion.
Carried unanimously, 7—0.
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C. Steven Maranz—Review of Experience (Building Contractor)
(d/b/a All Seasons Quality Renovations, LLC)
Chairman Boyd noted the Applicant was appearing before the Board to be approved for
a residential Contractor's License.
Steven Maranz:
• I was raised in New Jersey.
• In 1978, my father started All-Seasons Quality Renovations and I grew up
around the construction business.
• First it was kitchens and bathrooms, then roofing and siding. Fast forward to
2012, significant experience on multi-family properties, rehabbing, and
everything in between.
• In 2012, Hurricane Sandy was devastating but it opened my eyes to what I'm
passionate about—specifically,home performance. There were a lot of things
that were exposed due to that storm and basically it re-ignited a purpose of
serving. So, I've gone in the direction of home performance since then.
Vice Chairman Lantz questioned the Applicant:
Q. Your experience seems to show a lot of replacement work in the home performance
work. One of the requirements to get a Residential Contractor's License in Florida
is structural work. You must have a solid year of structural experience. Can you
give us some details about the structural work that you have done?
A. Sure. From managing home builds to, again, with these multi-family properties
there is significant structural work that needs to take place as far as footings and
I-beams and lan beams and anything for interior renovations whether it's expanding
or opening up kitchens or converting windows to sliding glass doors. Back to
footings, it's a monolith or ...
Q. Give me an example of a job that you did where you had to do something with
footings.
A. Okay. For an addition, for example, I'm not sure what you want-- pylons?
Q. You were saying for your structural experience you did a lot of footing work. Give
me an example of a job that you did and what you did for footing work.
A. Okay. So, on an addition, for example, you can do a monolith pour and then—I'm
not sure—you just go according to the plans ... architectural plans and structural
engineers—whatever ... whatever the ...
Terry Jerulle questioned the Applicant:
Q. Mr.Maranz, I think what Mr. Lantz is trying to get at is that it is incumbent upon
you to prove to use that you have the experience. What he is trying to get at is trying
to figure out what your experience is ... if you could elaborate ... give a bit more
detail on what you have done for structural experience.
A. As far as with my hands? As far as swinging the hammer, I'm not out there as a
mason. I'm more of a business owner so I'm not sure I get what you're looking for.
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Vice Chairman Lantz: For me personally, I want to know that you've swung a
hammer for one year doing structural work. That's what it will take to make me happy
to give you a license to build,remodel, alter, whatever—residential houses. I want to
know that you understand the structure. There's a big difference from managing a job—
calling a framer, calling a concrete guy, calling someone to do the I-beam—to knowing
what it entails. I want to know that if you're on a job on a remodel or whatever you are
doing, that you can look at this and know which wall is structural or this isn't right.
How do I know that? I know it because I have done it a bunch of times—I have the
experience to know. You don't necessarily need to know how to design a wall, but I
want to know you can look at it and say, "Maybe I need to call an engineer." You don't
get that by scheduling a framer or scheduling a concrete guy—you get that experience
by doing it. I want to know what you've done. When you say, "We've done footers," I
want to know not that's you called a guy to show up,but we dug a hole and did this or
did that. I want to know what's in the footer.
Terry Jerulle: And not just a footer, Mr. Maranz. I've worked in New Jersey, I lived
there for three or four years and I know the majority of the work there is wood-frame for
residential. Here, we don't have a lot of wood-frame for residential. What we have is
all concrete with tie-beams, for example. We're just trying to get a feel for what you
know about that aspect of the work. You're here asking us for a license and we're trying
to give it to you. But we want to be confident that you know the material and the
information that you need to know for us to give you that license.
Steven Maranz: Okay, so we don't have to worry about the frost line down here.
Basically, we'll go back to a light commercial application. So, if we're going to do a
floating slab, for example, you would basically pour the perimeter and use a size 5 rebar
throughout. I'm not sure what else as far as the work.
Richard Joslin: I guess in New Jersey they haven't ever had a pylon situation where
you have pylons poured or punched in until grade is reached. You've never had that
experience here at all?
Steven Maranz: I haven't done anything in Florida. I can't without a license.
Richard Joslin: Hundreds of homes now are being built on pylons—it's pretty critical
that you know the construction of it. It's not a flat slab or a monolithic slab with footers.
That's common.
Vice Chairman Lantz: Personally, I need a little more on stuff—so besides a floating
slab, what other structural work have you done or that you understand about?
Steven Maranz: As far as building supports, we've done I-beams. I've done a
significant amount of... but then, have I done it myself? No. Have I overseen projects?
Yes, I have ... going back to buildings from the 1880s that we supported. Again, I can't
testify to the fact that I personally installed the beams.
Vice Chairman Lantz: Well, can you go into some of the considerations that you may
have looked for—something a little more specific than "overseeing" so we know that's
you're not just scheduling but actually overseeing. I think that's two different ... what
we're hoping is that you can convince us you have done the work and you're competent
in the work—that's what we want to see.
Steven Maranz: All right. Again, as far as footings, I can tell you that they are 24-
inches deep, depending on the load-bearing requirements. With three-story buildings—
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balloon frame—I know that we have to put in six footings—basically, they changed the
Code, so we had to lift the building. We did it through a series of jacks and I-beams.
Terry Jerulle questioned the Applicant:
Q. In the remodeling business, there are a lot of people who like the taller sliding glass
doors as an example. The homes here are built with tie-beams and a lot of the doors
were 6'8"but people now want the 8-foot sliding glass doors. If someone came and
asked you for a price, for example, to change-out the sliding glass door or change-
out the windows ... can you tell us of your experience in doing that?
A. Sure.
Q. Because you said you were concerned about the level of the homes and getting them
up to hurricane grade. Do you know what the hurricane wind loads are in Florida
and what you have do in those cases?
A. It depends on the application, but I know that 160 miles per hour is normally the
minimum—generally it's 180 at this point for applications and for roofing as well.
Q. Well, yeah, anybody can come in here and know that—right? What we're trying to
do—I'm trying to help you, I really am. By asking you these questions, I'm trying
to draw some information that you may have but just not be able to give to us in a
certain way. When replacing a window, you put a new window in. Do you know
what must be done structurally to replace that new window?
A. Yes. So, it's whether we have to ... for the window ... expand the window ... whether
we just have to ... for the framing members, adding additional cripples or ...
Q. And that's what I'm trying to explain to you ... we don't have wood frame—it's
masonry.
A. Right. I can't speak to that, no.
Q. Same thing with the sliding glass doors—you're going to have a tie-beam there ...
A. Um-hmm.
Q. ... and the initial reaction is to cut the tie-beam.
A. Um-hmm.
Q. But without the structural experience ... help me out here, Mr. Nolton—I'm trying to
help him ... get him to answer the questions but am I not asking something correctly?
Matthew Nolton: I think the correct questions are being asked ... I think that in being
`hands-on,' it's not necessarily that you are swinging a hammer,but you are directing
those people. It's you say, "we are putting this steel I-beam up" or we're replacing
something, and you will have to direct them to make sure it is being done correctly
because you know how to do that. Do you know how to read the plans and know when
you need a structural engineer involved? That's the question and, so far, we haven't
heard any information from you that you know that. Mr. Jerulle asked you about
replacing windows here. Okay, it's a masonry opening—what do you have to know
about the bucking for it or the lack of bucking ... and all the facts about that. That's
what we're trying to hear from you ... that you know some of that kind of detail so that
when you hire a sub and they are out there doing that work and you go out there to look
at it, you can tell whether it was done right or not.
Steven Maranz: Understood, understood.
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Terry Jerulle: Typically, the windows that we did thirty years ago and the windows we
do today are different sizes. You have to increase or decrease the opening to put in a
new window. And there are structural elements that are very important when doing that
and we're just trying to figure out what you know about that.
Steven Maranz: Again, I can't say that I have a thorough knowledge of down here in
Florida yet,but I can tell you that certainly there's a tremendous amount of resources as
well. I have a few mentors and ...
Matthew Nolton: Well,just by saying that to me ... that you don't have a thorough
knowledge of Florida ... what you are in front of us for is us to waive the experience in
Florida. That's the reason why the County did give the license to you. By you saying
that, it tells me that you don't have the experience in Florida and you haven't given us
that you have the evidence from New Jersey that would cover what you need to know in
Florida, unfortunately.
Richard Joslin: Have you worked for any companies in Florida since you've been
here?
Steven Maranz: No, I have not.
Richard Joslin: So, you have no Florida experience at all?
Steven Maranz: I do not. But I do have experience.
Vice Chairman Lantz: For me, I don't care if your experience is in Florida, California
or Vermont, New Jersey, Arkansas,Europe ... what I want to know is you can look at
the way a building was built and understand how it was built. And what needs to be
done and, more importantly than what needs to be done ... you say you have a lot of
resources ... well, that's great. I have some friends who will call me to ask how to do
something and that's great for the times that they call me. What really concerns me is
that they don't know when to call me. That's what we want to know—that you know
you can look at something and know it is wrong and call somebody to figure it out. The
big problem is if you don't know that ... this is a load-bearing wall and if something
comes up -- you just go ahead and do it.
Steven Maranz: I am very hesitant because I know that I don't know a lot of things.
Again, this is a situation where it's a Catch-22 in a way for me ...
Vice Chairman Lantz: But what you're asking for is a license so that my mother-in-
law could hire you replace her windows and her job would be your learning curve.
That's what you're asking me to approve—right? Or the ninety-year-old guy two
houses down the street from me—his house could be your learning curve.
Steven Maranz: I hear you loud and clear. I think what is important is that I surround
myself with experienced people. I do have experience ... on the other hand, it's also
important as far as the homeowners ... that things are done right. And, so, if I'm able to
provide the proper personnel, et cetera ... I have a track record of doing the right thing. If
you look at the information that's in the packet as well—that's all I can tell you. I'm not
showing up on my first day looking for an opportunity to work with homeowners. This
is something that I'm passionate about ... I've always done the right thing for
homeowners and will continue to do that. My intentions—although I do understand as
far as the structural and things like weight-bearing walls—that I do understand that. But
I would like, if possible, to do to the home performance end of things because that is
really what my intention is as far as developing a business down here. I do understand
as far as the structural, but it's the home performance that I'm really passionate about.
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Richard Joslin: I think the best thing would be—for your benefit would be to —I'm
getting a sense from the Board that we're not content with your experience here. It
would be to try to put yourself in a situation where you go to work for a building
contractor to be around and learn from that end of it exactly how homes are constructed
here. It's different than where you're from—not saying that it's any different in some
respects but in some respects no matter where you're from ... as Kyle mentioned ...
there's still knowledge that you need to know so you can guide the people that you hire.
And that's the important part of it. If you don't have the knowledge and you hire
someone—as Mr. Nolton said—and they do it wrong ... once you cover it up, it's too
late. We want you to be in front of it ... not in the back of it. At the moment, I don't
think you can be in front of it. That's my opinion.
Terry Jerulle (directed his question to Staff): Is there a different license that he could
apply for to do just bathrooms and kitchen remodels?
Vice Chairman Lantz: What do you want to do? You're saying, "home performance."
Do you want to do insulation, windows, and siding?
Steven Maranz: What I'm looking to do as far as home performance—and what that is
... is the art and science and philosophy of...
Everildo Ybaceta: I'm sorry—I don't mean to interrupt ... you have six certificates that
you have provided to the Board. Can you elaborate on what these certificates are for?
Steven Maranz: I would love to and thank you for the opportunity to show you. The
Building Performance Institute is,basically, an organization that has built up ... as I was
saying ... the art and science of providing safe, clean, durable, and healthy homes. And
so, when it comes to diagnostics testing—when it comes to air quality—when it comes
to looking at a home as a whole—that's what I'm passionate about. Air quality,
especially down here, is a significant issue due to mold, mildew, etc. And I'm not even
talking about expanding the footprint of a home—just in existing homes—air sealing,
insulation, proper ventilation—that's what it encompasses.
Everildo Ybaceta: When we spoke, we discussed the energy efficiency of homes and
the additions. You told me how you could make these rooms more energy efficient.
How would you do that?
Steven Maranz: Thank you. The combination of insulation and air sealing,proper
ventilation, there's different factors down here as far as manual"Gs" or load caps for
properly sizing systems. I feel there's a disconnect especially in Southern Florida—I see
that there's a demand and I think I bring a lot of value to Collier County in that respect.
I just know that there's so much leakage and waste through the delivery system of the
HVAC units. I have found that the HVAC companies are very quick to change out the
boxes but really don't address the air quality or delivery of the air we're losing
according to the Department of Energy—it's somewhere around 30 or 40% of the
conditioned air. As far as the energy efficiency end of things, I think it's knowing the
"envelope" and how the systems work together, including the HVAC.
Vice Chairman Lantz: You're stuck in a Catch-22 here because you're applying for a
Residential Building Contractor's License which means you can build a house. It seems
to me that it's not what you want to do. You do a lot of air quality stuff. In Florida—
which is different from a lot of places -- to do the manual "Js" and all that kind of stuff
is typically—at least in this area—would be an HVAC Contractor which means you
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have to know the freon, the systems, the charges which is probably not what you do. It
seems like you're got years -- you have done tons of floradora(air quality) testing—
correct?
Steven Maranz: Correct.
Vice Chairman Lantz: Which is in huge demand here because it's a new addition to
our Code and everybody is looking for somebody to do floradora testing. I would love
to hire you to do floradora testing for me. However, as a Residential Contractor, I don't
think you can sign off on floradora testing—right—I think you have to be an A/C
Contractor or an Engineer. But, certainly, you won't be able to do it with the license
you are applying for. Licensing in Florida is different than it is in other places—it's
very specific. What you do doesn't fall into—nicely—one of those categories.
Steven Maranz: That is the Catch-22—it encompasses exactly what you said ... HVAC
Contractors ... Metal Contractors ... Roofing Contractors ... Insulation Contractors ... to
put that together under one license really is the Residential Building Contractor's
License. It's really a General Contractor for Home Performance.
Everildo Ybaceta: Pardon me, he could also get a Residential Certification that would
also allow him to do floradora testing. He doesn't necessarily need to be an A/C
Contractor to do it. In his packet, I also believe that he has a lot of insulation experience
and that may be something to look at.
Vice Chairman Lantz: If he got an Insulation Contractor's License, he would probably
be able to do everything that he wants to do—no?
Steven Maranz: No, that's incorrect. My approach is more of a whole home approach.
Again, I would be limited to just that one particular field. The value that I could bring to
a home owner would be putting all these trades together. As far as insulation, I was in
the field ... I did learn the business because that was something I wanted to do. I
crawled around in a lot of attic crawl spaces for approximately four years. Again, I'm
the guy so I didn't work for another company,but I do have experience in the field
specifically for insulation, a/c, and ventilation.
Matthew Nolton: It sounds like residential construction isn't what we're talking about
—residential construction is building a home or an addition. It sounds like "Envelope
Consultant"is what you're talking about. You have an expertise in the envelope of the
building—air tightness and energy efficiency—it sounds like a consultant is what you're
talking about rather than a licensed contractor.
Steven Maranz: Again, as a consultant—yes,but to actually be able to perform the
work ... to help people ... but that's not what I'm interested in ... strictly consulting. I am
not interested in becoming just strictly a professional diagnostics expert. I'm looking to
put everything together and basically provide healthy housing for people. I know that
there's a demand because I see it. Again, through "Sandy," we have a very similar
situation here ... after the storm ... again, I'm not sure and I'll leave it to you folks to
figure out what the best position for me is ... but I know I'm in a unique position to do a
lot of good.
Terry Jerulle: Hopefully I am saying this in a nice way, but our job isn't to determine
what category you fit in—our job is to determine whether your have experience for the
application you have applied for. That's why I was asking earlier, is there another
license that you could apply for but, through our conversation here, I don't know that
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you have the structural experience for this license. I'm trying to get you there,but I
don't think that you get me either.
Chairman Boyd: Could we put a limitation on the license?
Everildo Ybaceta: There are restrictions that could be added.
Vice Chairman Lantz: A structural license that's limited to do non-structural work?
Chairman Boyd: No, that he can't pull permits for single-family homes from scratch ...
that's not what he wants to do. He obviously has an expertise that ...
Richard Joslin: How can he not pull a permit for a renovation? If he goes in and sees
that his calculations are correct, and it is losing a lot of HVAC air or ...
Matthew Nolton: That's the envelope ... and it would include the sliding glass doors ...
and doors always turn into structural modifications.
Patrick White: Exactly. And the issue I have, Mr. Chair and Board Members, is we're
talking about experience,but I haven't heard a familiarity with the Codes that would be
applied and I don't know of another way to get that experience with the Codes that are
specific under the FBC ["Florida Building Code"] and the energy Codes without being
associated with someone who does the work. From my perspective, it is not only a
Scope of License issue, it is truly a lack of familiarity with the Codes under whatever it
is that would be the appropriate type of license for the Scope of Work this gentleman is
looking to do. Our job, I think, may be—going forward—to ask Staff to evaluate
whether we need to create some different form of category of license and whether that's
something the State itself is interested in looking at because Mr. Lantz said he's looking
for the type of experience specific to floradora and whatever those approvals may be—
then we may have an obligation, in the best interest of providing most energy and air-
quality efficient residences to our community, to think about it. I don't think it's just his
problem. Yes, it is his problem,but I think we have some responsibility here to at least
be equal to the cutting-edge that he seems to be on with the type of service and value
that he brings to the construction industry.
Steven Maranz: Mr. White, are there any suggestions that you ...
Patrick White: I have none.
Steven Maranz: ... or stipulations that ....
Patrick White: I don't ... I think the conundrum is exactly: one—related to the Codes
... familiarity with the Codes, and two—under those Codes, the structural types of
performance that arises from steel and concrete and the inner connections in creating a
safe and structurally-sound envelope that will withstand the air pressure differentials
arising from the types of storms that we have. That to me,plus the weather- and water-
proofing are the key elements. Those to me seem to be distinctly an aspect of making
sure in this hot and humid environment that we have that we will have a building
envelope that will be weather impermeable, and yet still have some form of breathe-
ability to allow it to adjust from the wet to dry season, the temperature extremes that we
have—there are a lot of factors going on here and I think that Mr. Maranz may be on the
cutting edge of what these performance analyses are. My suggestion to you, sir, would
be to begin with consulting service and to have the type of relationship with existing
G.C.s ["General Contractors"] who are doing the types of construction you are looking
to get a license for so you can gain that experience and familiarity—both with the Code
and with the actual construction technique and materials that are utilized in our
environment. My wife is from New Jersey and she would be really mad at me if I didn't
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try to help somebody from the Garden State. That's the best that I can offer you today.
I commend you for coming in and trying to shoehorn into what seems to be the most
appropriate "box." I just, regretfully, don't believe that we have a box that you fit
cleanly into where we can limit the Scope of what you do because of the structural
issues and the Code issues.
Vice Chairman Lantz: Are you a BPI-certified energy auditor or energy rated?
Steven Maranz: I am. I'm a Building Analyst with BPI and I have my ...
Vice Chairman Lantz: So, he's qualified, and Collier County will accept his floradora
reports ... you are qualified. (To Staff:) Can you just read the description of an
insulation contractor? (To Steven Maranz:) I know you don't want to be limited but at
least it could be a start to do the home performance and the air leaks, you know ...
Patrick White: It could create relationships with the existing residential building
contractors that would allow you to demonstrate your experience. I think you're at the
right point, but I don't believe you're at the right place to demonstrate the type of license
that you need. You're at the right point to begin the process of creating those
relationships but I just don't believe there is a license today that either the State or this
County has specifically would limit what you do. And I think Mr. Lantz's suggestion is
one that may allow you to begin that process because it will take us at least one year to
go through thinking about how to fashion a more appropriate license.
Steven Maranz: I am twenty years early to the game as far as a stand-alone Home
Performance License. That's not going to help us today—I understand that. But, boy—
I can't help but think there may be some restrictions put on that license to allow me to
put together some teams to do some good ...
Richard Joslin: I don't think, as Mr. White said, there is any kind of restriction or ...
Patrick White: Even if we made it exactly ...
Richard Joslin: ... that would qualify you to do what you want to do in that license
category—that's the problem. If there was, we would already be trying to think about
what we could do. We're going to have to start you out somewhere—if you're
interested—in a smaller technical field that will give you some of the experience level.
Then you can come again before the Board to show that [experience] and then we'll
know you are involved in the trade where you're trying to get the Building license for,
but right now, as Mr. White said, we don't have a category to deal with what you are
into ... so, it's either take Kyle's advice and start out at a level where you can get
involved or you will have to go to work for somebody and get some experience.
Everildo Ybaceta: Do you still require the definition for an Insulation Contractor?
Vice Chairman Lantz: I'm curious—I think it probably encompasses an awful lot of
what he wants to do.
Everildo Ybaceta: Read the following definition from Section 22-163 of Collier
County's Code of Ordinances, entitled `Definitions and Contractor Qualifications'
for the record:
"Specialty Contractor means any person who assumes responsible charge
and direction in the performance of construction work requiring special skills,
and whose principle contracting business involves the use of specialized
building trades and crafts usually a minor part of a complete structure.
Available categories of specialty contractors and their requirements are:
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Insulation contractor:
(a) All types except buildings - requires 36 months experience and a passing
grade on an approved test and a passing grade on a Business and Law
test, and means those who are qualified to install, maintain,repair, alter,
or extend any insulation primarily installed to prevent loss or gain of heat,
from internal or external sources on pipes, vessels, ducts, fire stopping
materials, sprayed-on fire resistive materials, or built-up refrigerated
boxes or rooms, and acoustical materials.
(b) Buildings -requires 24 months experience and a passing grade on an
approved test and a passing grade on a Business and Law test, and means
those who are qualified to install, maintain, repair, alter, or extend any
insulation primarily installed to prevent loss or gain of heat from rooms
or buildings.
Richard Joslin: Do the tests that he's already taken and passed qualify him to do that?
Everildo Ybaceta: The Business and Law—yes. But he did not take the insulation test.
Vice Chairman Lantz: I think you're qualified for the "A" license,but it doesn't get
you windows and it doesn't get you a roof—but it gets you the air-sealing, the air
performance and with your BPI certification, you can do the floradora testing. We're
not getting you all the way there,but it will get you 80 to 85% there. That's a lot better
than having nothing.
Steven Maranz: I agree with that.
Terry Jerulle: What are we going to do a year from now when he comes back and
wants to do the same thing? He's not going to have any more experience and the
experience he will have won't change anything.
Vice Chairman Lantz: But he will be in business. He will have to modify his business
model to fit into the system.
Terry Jerulle: I believe—listen, he could probably remodel kitchens, bathrooms, and
remodel the whole house. He just doesn't know anything about windows, the structure,
or the sliding glass doors. That's where he needs experience. Giving him an Insulation
Contractor's License—I don't know how that will help him or us in the future.
Vice Chairman Lantz: But you don't want to remodel?
Terry Jerulle: I'm not criticizing what you're saying ...
Vice Chairman Lantz: No, no—I get it. You're into Home Performance ...
Terry Jerulle: But he wants to remodel ... he wants to remodel and do the Home
Performance in his remodel ... it's what I understood him to say.
Steven Maranz: So, yes, remodeling ... but, again, my passion is specifically with
Home Performance and that does not require renovations—it's an existing home that I
can make a lot more efficient. People will feel a lot better living inside it and save some
money, so it does not need to be a renovation. But I certainly would like that ability.
Terry Jerulle: Then I'm confused. If you're not renovating a home to do what you
want to do ... so you're not pulling any permits to do what you need to do?
Steven Maranz: No, there's stuff to pull permits.
Terry Jerulle: And the permits would be for what?
Steven Maranz: For insulation ... for blowing insulation ... for doing spray foam ...
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Terry Jerulle: It's just insulation?
Steven Maranz: In that particular situation, but very rarely does it happen without
doing some ventilation. For example, upgrades on soffits. Whether or not we have to
do some grading—there are just things ... HVAC contractors very often have to be
brought in to upgrade the system.
Terry Jerulle: Then maybe Mr. Lantz is right.
Vice Chairman Lantz: Well, obviously, if you get an Insulation License, you wouldn't
be able to hire the HVAC person, but you could recommend them. You can't be a
middle man in the deal. If someone needs grading, you can't hire them. But you can
recommend them. They would charge the homeowner directly.
Richard Joslin: You wouldn't be able to pull a permit to do those phases—you would
need someone else who is licensed to deal with the homeowner and you would just be,
in a sense, on the outside looking in.
Patrick White: You could not—within the scope of your contract—put those types of
services together as something that you would be paid for ... otherwise, you would be
here for a different reason.
Steven Maranz: I understand.
Patrick White: And, so, what I think Mr. Lantz is suggesting ... and other members on
the Board appear to be gravitating toward ... is starting with that particular type of
license that gets you most of the Scope of Services that you want to perform and allow
you, through the process, to make the types of relationships with the people who have
the type of license you are looking for—to be able to have them verify your experience
at some point in the future. What I think we've come to is a place where you may not
get 100% but, as Mr. Lantz said, we can certainly get you to a point where you may
have a sufficiently economically effective business model that you can go forward from
... because that's my concern ... we want what you have here—and we need it ... but you
have to be able to make a living doing it, with the license structure that we currently
have.
Steven Maranz: I think it's an acceptable compromise that will allow me to gain some
experience. I do have a question, though ... I will still, with time, pursue a Residential
Contractor's License. Will I still be in this Catch-22? How do you suggest that I get the
experience that's needed?
Patrick White: You're going to have jobs where there will be structural components.
The four verbs in this license are construction,remodeling, repair or improvement.
Okay? Whenever it's new construction—that's a "no"—you're going to hire the
appropriate contractor. For remodeling—it's the same kind of idea, but I think you
would probably be a better fit because you're going to make the recommendations. For
repairs—if it becomes structural, that's when you're going to need the type of license to
work with a contractor that has it—you would make the referral to them. As you gain
experience knowing who it is that is interest in and shares your passion in this business
community, those relationships are going to build. I would say that if there was a way to
restrict your license to just the improvement stuff, but I can't think of a way to do it. My
business is words, so I'm willing to be creative but I don't believe we could stretch the
fabric of these words that far.
Matthew Nolton: To go back to your question—there are one or two ways: to work for
somebody or find a Qualifier—you would start a firm and work with that person. Those
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are the two ways you will gain the experience [for the license] so you wouldn't need to
come back to us to ask us to approve it.
Steven Maranz: Thank you, thank you all.
Patrick White: What type of license would he need to change out windows?
Everildo Ybaceta: A Door and Window Installation Contractor's License.
Patrick White: Which requires a structural component, I'm sure.
Richard Joslin: Find someone in a similar trade—a Building Contractor could put a
partnership together ... or something. That would be the fastest way, I think. That way,
you would get the experience and the qualifications, and you would be learning—all at
the same time and working at what you want to do.
Matthew Nolton: I'm an engineer and have a consulting firm. We consult. We're
doing what you're saying you want to do. That's why I said you could do consulting.
We don't hire any of those contractors—we certainly know good contractors in the area
and recommend them to our clients. But we go in and resolve what the problems are
and what the"fixes" are for them and do floradora testing if it needs to be done. The
reason consulting is a possibility for you is because you can put a strong team around
you of licensed specialty contractors.
Steven Maranz: And that's why as a Residential Contractor, I would surround myself
with folks like you—but I do understand.
Richard Joslin: Was there any type of a license where you came from that was
required to do this type of work?
Steven Maranz: In New Jersey, they just have a General Contracting license—it's a
different world up there from down here altogether. I've learned a lot.
Everildo Ybaceta: I have the requirements for a Home Improvement Contractor for
New Jersey. Unfortunately, I was unable to bring it, but the requirement is almost like a
business tax receipt here. You fill out an application and pay$110.00 and you get a
certificate.
Patrick White: There's that word again—improvement.
Richard Joslin: There are many, many of us who are here from—I'll call it the
northern section of the world—when you move to the South, it's a little different for
qualifications.
Terry Jerulle: So, the best move would be for him to withdraw this application and
submit a different one?
Richard Joslin: If he wants to do insulation, yes.
Vice Chairman Lantz: I would have no problem—let me ask you, do you want to do
insulation—go that route? Or do you want to think about it?
Steven Maranz: Up until this meeting, obviously I had envisioned something else—my
business model would have to change. But if that's what would allow me to do business
in Collier County and help people—and that's our first step—then that's what I'm going
to do.
Vice Chairman Lantz: The big question is—does he have to apply for a new license?
I would have no problem waiving the insulation test if he's already passed the
Residential Contractor's test and he's got verifiable experience in that area, I mean I'd
hate to make him come back to the Board again in the future and have the same ...
Terry Jerulle: What could we approve?
Patrick White: I'm not familiar with any circumstance where we have substantially
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re-designated the type of license. We have made restrictions; we've kind of slid
sideways between one level of contracting to another, for example, but I don't think
we've ever changed categories. I strongly suggest that we consider asking him to
withdraw today and resubmit the appropriate one and, at that point, if Staff is not
comfortable—then we can make the adjustment relative to the testing.
Vice Chairman Lantz: Could we proactively waive his—even though he hasn't
applied for it—waive the insulation test for the future?
Patrick White: My government experience is that you have to ask for it before they
will give it to you. I understand it's thirty days but ...
Everildo Ybaceta: He's got the Business and Law test already in ...
Patrick White: Correct.
Everildo Ybaceta: Yes, and ...
Vice Chairman Lantz: Why would he have to come back—is my point. What other
test would he have to take?
Everildo Ybaceta: He would have to take the Insulation test.
Matthew Nolton: Assuming he can pass that test, then I think you said he had to have
36-months of experience. So, the question is that—for you, Evy—if he's got that
experience ...
Steven Maranz: That I do.
Patrick White: I didn't see a problem with that.
Everildo Ybaceta: From what has been submitted, I don't see an issue with that.
Patrick White: I would strongly suggest you consider withdrawing today and look at
what the testing requirement is for insulation. If you feel you cannot prepare for it and
take that exam within—let's say—the next two weeks, you would resubmit an
application, and come back before us and ask to have us waive that testing requirement.
Steven Maranz: I'm sorry—so I pass this test and ...
Patrick White: Then you would get your license because it sounds like you're going to
meet the experience requirements.
Steven Maranz: So, it's not a waiver of the test ...
Everildo Ybaceta: At the point where you pass your Insulation exam, you won't have
to come in front of the Board ...
Steven Maranz: But I would still have to pass the Insulation exam ...
Everildo Ybaceta: Or the other option is to resubmit an application and ask to appear
before the Board to waive the testing.
Patrick White: My belief is for the time and money it would take you to pass the
Insulation test, you probably could do that with flying colors and be done and be
licensed in two weeks.
Steven Maranz: All right, done.
Patrick White: The procedural step today would be to ask us to withdraw your
application and have the benefit of our conversation to go forward.
Steven Maranz: Okay, so I ask the Board to withdraw the request for a license
application.
Patrick White moved to approve the Applicant's motion to withdraw his application
for a license. Richard Joslin offered a Second in support of the motion.
Carried unanimously, 7— 0.
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D. Oscar Villa—Application to Qualify a Second Entity
(Currently qualifies: National Tile and Marble, Inc.
Second Entity: EE Marble & Tile Corp.)
Chairman Boyd asked the Applicant to provide some background concerning his
request to qualify a second entity.
Oscar Villa: We subcontract for tile distributors for Modern Tile and Wayne Wiles
Carpet and Tile. For them to give us work,we need the certificate. It's not like I'm
going to be out bidding on jobs. We're two different companies. This is just to work
with these distributors. They keep us real busy. I've been associated with Wayne since
1999 and with Modern for the last three years, going on four.
Matthew Nolton questioned the Applicant:
Q. How have you been associated with them?
A. By subcontracting.
Q. Through the original company?
A. For them, yes, but they will not give us work unless I have my own Certificate and
insurance.
Richard Joslin questioned the Applicant:
Q. How were you subcontracting then?
A. Well, they—it's all the gated communities. It's here in my application.
Q. No, we're not talking about gates ... we're talking about subcontracting to a
contractor. You are a contractor—correct?
A. Yes.
Q. How do you get paid?
A. They pay me by the square foot.
Q. Really?
A. Um-hmm. [affirmative response]
Vice Chairman Lantz questioned the Applicant:
Q. So, you're currently a licensed contractor?
A. Yes.
Q. And you're trying to add another business to do the exact same thing that you're
doing but as a separate business?
A. Yes, it would be totally different.
Q. So how many employees do you have in your current business?
A. It varies—goes up and down from 25 to 28.
Q. And how many employees to you plan on hiring for the new business?
A. Three to five.
Q. What I'm confused—why are you setting up another business?
A. It's a totally different—the first one I have with my father. The second one will be
with my uncle. We'll basically be working for the same companies—he wants to do
his own thing and I want to help him do his own thing. I think he's capable and I
will be overseeing everything.
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Q. He doesn't want to work with your father. He wants to be, technically, your father's
competitor.
A. Yes.
Q. But there's so much work, you can both ...
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you're going to be the guy with your hand in both tills?
A. We meet up at the same shops, we're going to be at the same job sites, so it's not a
super big stretch.
Richard Joslin questioned the Applicant:
Q. And you've done this before?
A. Yes.
Terry Jerulle: Have you ever worked for my company?
Oscar Villa: What's your company?
Terry Jerulle: Jerulle Construction. We have used Wayne Wiles on some of our
projects in the past ten years.
Oscar Villa: Yes. There's a chance that, yes.
Terry Jerulle: I'm not sure if that's a conflict or not. I don't know you and don't
recognize you but when you say you work as a subcontractor for a guy I work with, I'm
not sure if that's a conflict or not. Guys?
Attorney Jeb Schneck,Attorney for the Board: No, there's no special gain or loss
that you would receive resulting from the denial or approval of the application.
Richard Joslin: We've kicked around licenses of this particular nature before regarding
companies that have a license like you do—a tile license—and then want to set up
another company identical to the one that you already have. Sometimes it's happened
and sometimes it hasn't only because the conflict of interest in those companies. How
are you going to watch what money goes into what pocket at any given moment? It
turns out to be a bit of a nightmare for the Board members. It's just a questionable item
when you try to do a Second Entity that is in the same exact trade.
Oscar Villa: I understand but it's—how can I explain it? The one has absolutely
nothing to do with the other. I think that in my packet I put in there a waiver between
the two—the two separate entities. It's really going to be my father's thing and his
[uncle's] thing and I would just oversee both of them as the license holder. I'd be paid
from either one of them.
Vice Chairman Lantz questioned the Applicant:
Q. What do you do currently for your father's business? Oscar, what do you do?
A. I help him with a bunch of the—you know, renewing the license, going out there.
There are certain issues sometimes—just recently we had a renovation and the
homeowner's grout didn't dry for whatever reason. So, we went out there, used the
product, hardened it and I took charge of that. When there's some sort of conflict or
real complaint that need addressing, I will go out there and handle it and make sure
it's done correctly.
Q. How many hours a week do you spend working for your father's company?
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A. Ten to twelve. Not a whole lot. He's been doing it longer than I have so he's pretty
accurate and good at doing what he does.
Q. So, you basically put out fires?
A. If there are any fires, yes. Rarely is there a situation that arises.
Q. If there are no fires, you're not doing all that much?
A. No ... no.
Q. What are you going to do for your uncle?
A. I will be with him a significant amount of the time. I know he's competent, but I
would be ...
Q. Setting tile or setting up crews?
A. Trying, you know, to get him going.
Q. How do you get paid from your father's company?
A. I get a salary and I own a small percentage of his company. The same thing with him
[gesturing toward his uncle] —I would get a salary and I would own ...
Q. Regardless of how much work you do, you make the same amount of money?
A. Yes.
Q. Regardless if you work one hour or one hundred hours?
A. Yes.
Terry Jerulle questioned the Applicant:
Q. Does your father know that you're starting another business?
A. Yes, and he signed the Waiver and Release Agreement.
Patrick White questioned the Applicant:
Q. It's actually an acknowledgement but ...
A. Okay, yes ... an acknowledgement.
Chairman Boyd questioned the Applicant:
Q. So, most of your work is for Wayne Wiles and not directly for the homeowners?
A. Yes, sir.
Vice Chairman Lantz questioned the Applicant:
Q. And your father and your uncle ... are they going to be using the same people?
A. No, absolutely not—that's the whole reason for the ...
Q. Do they sub out employees? Do they use a middleman?
A. No. They would technically drive them out and get them started out and be with
them in the field.
Q. But they pay them on a payroll ... not ...
A. Yes.
Q. ... not as subs. That's the way it works for your father and that's the way it's going
to work for your uncle as well?
A. Yes.
Richard Joslin questioned the Applicant:
Q. What about vehicles?
A. Depending on the load ... if we have four to five houses coming up that day,
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•
August 15,2018
Wayne himself has a semi that he will load—he charges us a fee—but he will take
the material out there. We also have trucks and a flatbed ... if we have a house here
or there, we will take it out ourselves—they load it there. He [indicating his uncle]
would start off with maybe a van or a truck and take his own material out. Him
starting out—they're not going to give him—he has to build trust with Wayne or the
distributor ... so, it's a process. It's not like they're going to give him four or five
houses at a time to go and tile.
Q. On the vehicle portion, I'm thinking that you're probably going to have the name of
your company—is it your father's company's name on that truck?
A. No, we don't have labels on the trucks.
Q. You don't?
A. No.
Q. Wow.
Matthew Nolton questioned the Applicant.
Q. You don't have company vehicles?
A. No, we do have company vehicles—we just don't have labels on them. That has
become an issue ... the reason we don't have any labels is in the past, that has
become an issue with guys who do work on the side and ask to borrow the truck ...
and if they run into problems, they end up calling me. You know what I mean?
When I had nothing to do with what these guys do on the weekends.
Richard Joslin directed his comment to Staff: Correct me if I'm wrong but to a license
holder in Collier County or any State-certified Contractor, your license number should
be shown on your company vehicle along with your name.
Everildo Ybaceta: It's pretty black and white on that one ... if you are advertising on
your vehicle, then you must have your name and license number(s) on the vehicle or
you can have a blank vehicle.
Vice Chairman Lantz: My truck in the parking lot does not have my company name or
license number on it—it doesn't say anything but it's my company's truck. There's no
reason for me to advertise. I have other vehicles that we advertise with, but you don't
have to ... if you advertise, you put your license number on it. And then there's a
conflict ... if you're a sub for Wayne Wiles, he would probably prefer no labels because
he would prefer the homeowners assume they are all Wayne Wiles' employees. I don't
see anything wrong with that.
Terry Jerulle questioned the Applicant:
Q. Is your uncle going to be doing the work?
A. Yes.
Q. What has his experience been for the last couple of years?
A. He's been doing it since mid-2000.
Q. Where?
A. All over Naples and the County.
Q. And who has he worked for?
A. He's worked for Empire Tile, Imperial Tile, and I think he worked for my Dad for
this last ... and that's when he decided that he wanted to do it for himself.
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Vice Chairman Lantz questioned the Applicant:
Q. Is this a long-term thing? Do you plan on qualifying him forever or just until he can
get his license?
A. For now, until he can get his license—yes. I imagine that's the plan for him.
Matthew Nolton questioned the Applicant:
Q. What prevents him from getting his license now?
A. It's the language thing ... the reading part of it.
It was noted the licensing tests are also given in Spanish.
A. We had no idea. We didn't know that.
Q. If he has the experience, there's nothing that prevents him from getting his license.
A. I agree.
Vice Chairman Lantz questioned the Applicant:
Q. So, what's to say, for us, that you're not just a license for hire?
A. We've all worked together—I've known him, and we've worked together—we've
been on the same crew in the field ... it's what we do.
Terry Jerulle: What we don't like is licenses for hire.
Oscar Villa: I understand.
Matthew Nolton: Or competing licenses—same person with two companies doing the
same thing.
Terry Jerulle: There are a whole host of problems that we have discussed many times
in the past—giving one person two licenses for the same type of work.
Patrick White: Here's a hypothetical question, Oscar: If you get the license today to
qualify the Second Entity, how long before your uncle comes in and tries to take the test
to get his own license?
Oscar Villa: I mean, that would be on him. I cannot answer that. But, in that case, I
would then forfeit my second company ...
Matthew Nolton: But you'd still have ownership in the company—you just wouldn't
be the Qualifier.
Richard Joslin stated he did not see the need to Qualify a Second Entity since Oscar
Villa's uncle could take the licensing tests in Spanish which is his primary language.
Vice Chairman Lantz replied that he has taken several construction tests. In his
opinion, the tests are not about how well an Applicant knows his/her trade but how well
that Applicant knows the book. He noted the book and reference material are printed in
English and stated that many questions on the test are on random information found only
in the book.
Oscar Villa: Just for your consideration—on my father's side, there are 14 of them.
Every single one has had no more than a fifth-grade education. That's one of the
reasons why I help my father and my uncle, and I am also helping me.
Vice Chairman Lantz: Are you going to try to qualify 14 more ...
Oscar Villa: No, sir, this will be it!
Vice Chairman Lantz: I just had to ask. For me, personally, I am not a fan of
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• August 15,2018
the Second Entity in the same trade, but I don't think they [the father and the uncle]
will ever work directly for a homeowner ... I think they always work for Wayne Wiles.
I am pretty sure Wayne Wiles knows pretty darn well exactly what they are doing and
probably doesn't have a problem with hit. It's not as if they're going to give competing
bids to Wayne Wiles. I'm pretty sure they don't set the price—Wayne Wiles sets the
price. In my mind, the conflict isn't there where it might be in a lot of other cases. I
don't see them going to homeowners because there's so much work from Wayne Wiles
... there's just no need for them to do it. Against how I usually feel, I have no problem
with this one.
Vice Chairman Lantz moved to approve Oscar Villa's Application to Qualify a Second
Entity. Patrick White offered a Second in support of the motion.
Motion carried, 4— "Yes"/3— "No." Terry Jerulle, Richard Joslin, and Matthew
Nolton were opposed.
IX. OLD BUSINESS:
A. Jeffrey Bumpus (d/b/a Northern Breeze)—Expired Permits Update
Chairman Boyd called for Mr. Bumpus to take the stand and be sworn.
Everildo Ybaceta noted Mr. Bumpus had been notified of the meeting. He called the
office on August 14th and spoke to a member of Staff, stating that he would be in
Tampa on August 15th and would not attend the meeting. In response to questions
concerning whether the trip was due to a personal emergency,Mr. Ybaceta answered
that Mr. Bumpus would be in Tampa through the weekend because it was his birthday.
Everildo Ybaceta introduced Josh Lenio who is the Supervisor for extensions,
cancellations and withdrawals.
Josh Lenio and Contractors' Licensing Officer Reggie Smith were sworn.
Terry Jerulle complimented Staff on the new format of the information packets
provided to the Board members.
Everildo Ybaceta stated Lilla Davis, Administrative Supervisor, was responsible for
the packets.
Chairman Boyd asked Mr. Smith to present his report.
Reggie Smith stated Mr. Lenio would present his report concerning his efforts to bring
the 10 expired permits and 30 void permits into compliance.
Terry Jerulle asked Mr. Lenio to provide a description of his duties for the County.
Joshua Lenio: I am the Administrative Supervisor of the Permit Cancellation and Re-
Activation section in the Building Department. The group oversees all the open,
expired and void permit applications. We help contractors and owner/builders see their
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permits through to completion. If a property is underneath a closing, we help the
homeowners navigate their open or expired permits.
Terry Jerulle: Is this a new position?
Joshua Lenio: This is a new position within the Building Department.
Joshua Lenio:
• Jeffery Bumpus is the Qualifier for Northern Breeze Air Conditioning.
• A report was run on May 15, 2018 as requested by Reggie Smith; 31 permits
were listed as void.
• The information was provided to Reggie Smith who provided it to the Board.
• Another report was run prior to this meeting. Mr. Bumpus has modified four of
the void permits and one of the expired permits for a total of 5 out of the
original 41.
• There is a difference between "void" and"expired"permits.
• Mr. Bumpus can do nothing for a void permit. He could submit a
"cancellation" which states that no work has been done or he could submit a re-
application to obtain a new permit.
• For an expired permit, Mr. Bumpus can submit an application for an extension.
(Up to three extension are allowed—90-days each.)
• The Building Official will decide if extension will be allowed for these permits.
• There were originally 31 void permits. Currently, there are 27 void permits.
• Mr. Bumpus was advised by Staff that it would be less expensive to submit a re-
application for a new permit rather than to apply for an extension.
• Currently there are 9 expired permits.
• The four re-applications submitted by Mr. Bumpus two days earlier are under
"review" status and no action has been taken.
Mr. Lenio noted that most homeowners are not aware that they are responsible to
schedule an inspection with the County. They have no idea what the requirements are
to obtain a Certificate of Occupancy. He stated it would be better for the homeowners
if Mr. Bumpus followed each permit through to completion even though his efforts
have been minimal.
Vice Chairman Lantz: Do any of these homeowners know that this is going on with
their places?
Joshua Lenio: Not that I am aware.
Everildo Ybaceta: When he initially came before the Board, he did state that he
would pull the permits and then ask the homeowners to call in for an inspection.
Matthew Nolton: I remember him stating that he couldn't be there for each inspection
—that's why they were to call in for an inspection ... so the homeowner could be there
and give the inspector access to the property.
Is he still actively pulling permits?
Everildo Ybaceta: No, not that I am aware.
Reggie Smith: The last permit that he applied for was in 2016. He also stated in other
meetings before the Board that he is out of the installation business—he has his State
license as an A/C Contractor to perform repairs that do not require obtaining a permit,
he operates a Home Watch service, and works as a handyman in various communities.
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• August 15,2018
Patrick White: I think the dilemma we faced previously was if the Board tried to
impose any type of Sanctions, it would decrease the probability that Mr. Bumpus would
go through the process to properly close out the permits. I am not sure where we are
without the benefit of Mr. Bumpus to give us any assurance—other than his birthday
was more important than his work obligations.
Richard Joslin: Since he is a State-certified Contractor, there's not a whole lot of
Sanctions that the Board can impose—correct? He's not pulling permits anymore.
Terry Jerulle: Can I make an observation? Have you offered him any type of solution
with the inspections? What I'm trying to say is ... if I am him and I'm going to
paraphrase: I'm semi-retired and don't care about the past and I'm just going to do
what I want to do in the future ... and the you guys can't do anything to me because I'm
retired and have a State license and I'm not going to pull any more permits. So, what's
the incentive for me to get this done?
Everildo Ybaceta: Sadly, I do agree with that.
Terry Jerulle: So ... thinking out loud ... can you offer him an Inspector for a day to
go to all these different places to try to ... instead of having the homeowners call in the
old-fashioned way ... where they will show up between 8:00 am and 12:00 Noon ...
have him goto ...?
Patrick White: I think the issue is that it's possible, perhaps, with the expired permits
but I think that the problem is that you would have to pay for the 27 void permits that
need to be renewed.
Terry Jerulle: I think we should get the expired ones.
Richard Joslin: There are dollars and cents that probably could be worked out. If I
remember correctly when this all came about and there were those 10 permits that he
said he was going to get straightened out, the question did come up ... was the County
going to work with him as far as the inspections go? And the answer, I believe, was
"yes" at the time. It does not sound, in my opinion, as if they are putting him in a win-
win situation. As Terry said, what's his incentive to get this done if he still has to go
through all the hoops to try to get permits for systems that have been in these homes for
how many years and are still working?
Everildo Ybaceta: Obviously we ... the situation here is, no matter what, the
contractor always has some responsibility to re-activate the permit and once he re-
activates the permit then, yes, -- and I've done it before because in my previous life I
was in his shoes [indicating Joshua Lenio] —I can request that an Inspector to go out to
the property the following day. I believe now that we have a dedicated Inspector—or
you did have—
Joshua Lenio: The County has contracted with NOVA; we now have an Inspector
who helps us with the expired permits but is specific to residential only—not
commercial. We would use the County's Inspectors for commercial or multi-family.
Everildo Ybaceta: In every way, yes, we are willing to work with the contractor—we
have always been willing to work with the contractor. The County is always trying to
put its best foot forward here to work with contractors and to get the homeowner that
Certificate of Completion.
Patrick White: What opportunities are there—what options exist relative to the void
permits? I recognize the County's commitment to support and your flexibility, and I
commend it. My understanding of the bigger problem—percentage-wise and number-
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wise—is with the void permits and the process that exits. From my understanding,
it seems to handcuff the County relative to what options exist to deal with void permits
that don't involve greater costs to Mr. Bumpus in order to re-invigorate those permits.
I'm just trying to be creative.
Joshua Lenio: With all due respect, that's a conversation for the Building Official to
make that call rather than myself.
Patrick White: Relative to the Building Official's discretion afforded under the
Building Code, is it your understanding that he has some capability to handle a void
permit in a fashion other than renewing the permit at the existing fee established for the
permit?
Joshua Lenio: Yes, in certain circumstances—but each one is case-by-case. I have
seen where void permits have been reinstated to where the County allowed the
contractor to pursue it ... given certain circumstances.
Patrick White: Based on your experience and degree of familiarity with the void
permits, do you feel that it would be advantageous for Mr. Bumpus to have that
conversation with the Building Official?
Joshua Lenio: I do.
Patrick White: Okay.
Matthew Nolton: It seems to me there are two issues here: one is all these permits and
the individual owners and how to resolve that—and the Building Official certainly can
waive that fee. He's done it before—I've been involved when he's done that, so he can
do that. The County has an issue in that it allowed these permits to be out there and not
hold this guy accountable for them. The County has a reason to want to waive the fee
and get them resolved for the homeowners. Mr. Bumpus doesn't get to go "scot-free"—
we, as a Board, need to resolve him once and for all. We keep kicking that can down
the road for thirty or sixty days. We do have the ability to make a recommendation to
the State—and even ask the State for a fine—we can ask that. So, there are two parts to
this for the Board to look at, I think.
Patrick White: We can't get blood from a turnip.
Matthew Nolton: I understand that—but to resolve it once and for all ...
Patrick White: I understand and what I was hoping to be able to fashion was the type
of conversation between Mr. Bumpus and those in the County who have a familiarity
with the specific sets of permits to derive a mechanism where he, Mr. Bumpus, would
be more inclined to participate in an effective way if we gave him some encouragement
to do so. I understand the potential of"the stick" may help to encourage him. But at
the end of the day, having seen Mr. Bumpus live and at the podium, I think he would
react negatively. I think it would be just a ...
Terry Jerulle: And what's the point?
Patrick White: How many times do you want to be ...
Terry Jerulle: We must draw a red line and not move it. Nothing is happening. He
may be out there working, and a lot of people today check-up on people simply by
using Google. If we can make his life uncomfortable by doing some sort of public
notice and saying something to the State, so when people google his name—they may
not use him in the future. Because he's out there working—doing maintenance—I
think we should let people know that, well, he's not one of the good guys.
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Matthew Nolton: And the State—if we made the recommendation to remove his
license—he wouldn't be doing maintenance anymore ... correct? He wouldn't have any
license, so he couldn't work in air-conditioning.
Everildo Ybaceta: It's a Catch-22 no matter what ... at what point do you let these
permits continue to fly ... the residents at some point will have to work on these
permits. If they want to sell their property and they have an expired permit, it falls on
them. So, you have to weigh the options here. I agree with you ... you've kicked the
can, and this will be the third time that you're gonna kick it down the road.
Terry Jerulle: You're assuming? I'm not ... I'm done with Mr. Bumpus.
Everildo Ybaceta: You're right—I am assuming.
Terry Jerulle: I'm done with it.
Matthew Nolton: Wait a minute. The problem with kicking it down the road is why
would we expect anything different to happen unless the County is going to say, "Okay,
we'll waive all these fees —we'll fill out the forms for you—we'll do most of the work
for you." Why would we expect anything different?
Reggie Smith: I'd like to remind the Board that, initially, Mr. Bumpus thought he
could tackle the permits within a month—30 days. We talked him into taking 60 days.
When he came before the Board again, he had some applications made, I think. I had
testified that he may need longer than 60 days because at some point most of residents
were seasonal and would not return to provide access to the units until the fall. Since
then, I had a conversation with Mr. Bumpus who maintained he could accomplish this
before the fall because of his Home Watch business—he claims he has access.
Patrick White asked if the County had a recommendation.
Reggie Smith: I am not ready to say anything specific but if there is some way that the
Board could put a timeframe on getting these done and if the time limit expires, then
bring him back before the Board to ...
Patrick White: I would be very happy to "draw a line in the sand," and the
consequence would be whatever Sanctions we could impose—automatically occurring
if it's not done.
Reggie Smith: In my mind, it's more than just allowing him to try to solve these issues
for these homeowners and it's not just for when they want to resell their properties—
it's more serious than that. You may have an a/c unit that was installed several years
ago and is still running fine,but if it still hasn't passed an inspection, you will have
insurance issues. What people may not realize is when we are done with this case, the
permits will be turned over to the Building Official to send to the Code Enforcement
department and they will become Code Enforcement cases with violations against the
property owners. If they attempt to sell the property, the homeowners will be forced to
hire another contractor and pay the fees ...
Patrick White: I am aware of that and have sought to try to avoid that consequence
for the homeowner. But I think the point that Mr. Nolton makes is a very valid point.
It isn't a perspective that I've thought much about before, but it really resonated
strongly with me today. I say this in the open forum having been a former County
employee that there is an obligation, I think, on the County's part relative to closing the
loop with the homeowner that the permits are either going to expire or become void.
It's in the County's own best interest to have the permits closed out because that's the
governmental service of health/safety/welfare that the County is in business to provide.
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To have allowed contractors to "get away with it" —so to speak—is a problem shared
by the County and the community of contractors because it involves the homeowners.
From my perspective, I am very appreciative that Josh has the job that he has and that
the County is making those efforts—that's going in the right direction. But my
recommendation is that we find a way to be more programmatic when dealing with
contractors about getting them into a position to be able to resolve these things with the
least amount of cost and effort.
Joshua Lenio: To speak to your point, Mr.White, more recently I've had discussions
with Evy and management within the Building Department because a lot of the times,
as with Mr. Bumpus, the process is reactive. We are looking at implementing newer
practices to address the old and to maintain the new. The direction into which that is
going to go is still up in the air,but we are starting a trend to formalize some practice.
Patrick White: I am encouraged to hear that. Thank you.
Vice Chairman Lantz: I've done work not just in Collier County but all over the
State. Maybe 10 or 12 years ago, I had a job in the City of Naples and I let the permit
expire. I went to get an inspection on another permit,but it was not allowed—I
couldn't do it. If you had an expired permit you couldn't get an inspection or apply for
a permit or receive a permit—you couldn't do anything until the expired permit was
fixed. The City of Naples would not let me get 3 —4—5 — 10—40 permits down the
road. About two years ago, I did a job in Estero. It took a bit longer and the permit
expired while we were still doing the work,but I didn't get an extension. Tom
DeGram, the Building Official, sent a"love letter" to the homeowner—but not to me—
and it said that the homeowner would have problems if the expired permit issue wasn't
resolved right away. Let me tell you—my phone rang pretty quick! I went in, paid the
$50 fee, and got it. If Collier County sent out 49 "love letters"—and made that a
practice for the future—49 homeowners will be calling Mr. Bumpus and telling him to
get his butt in gear. Maybe that's better than the seven of us telling him the same thing
one day every month. If the homeowners are calling him all the time, telling him to get
this straight, it might solve the problem.
Patrick White: And they [the homeowners] have the capacity to create other legal
issues for him that will have cost consequences beyond the mere licensure.
Matthew Nolton: Even if they all wanted to take him to Small Claims
Patrick White: Exactly.
Vice Chairman Lantz: If they all called him once a week, that's enough to drive him
nuts! Sometimes, that's all it takes—enough harassment to ...
Patrick White: Encourage him.
Richard Joslin: I think since the March meeting that he was originally in here for, we
have given him—what— 120 days to try to get this handled? He's only done 5 permits.
Matthew Nolton: And 4 were in the last two days!
Richard Joslin: Yeah. I think it is time that the Board probably stops fooling around
and just makes the recommendations that we need to make.
Terry Jerulle: You bring up a very good point, Mr. Lantz. Josh, have the home-
owners been notified of these permits? The answer is no?
Everildo Ybaceta: The homeowner is not ultimately the owner of the permit.
Terry Jerulle: Why don't we .... why can't we ...
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Patrick White: The County's current practice is that the homeowner will find out if it
elevates to the level of a Code case and it goes from, effectively, Contractors'
Licensing to Building Permitting to Code compliance/Code Enforcement.
Reggie White: It's the level of responsibility—it's the contractor's responsibility at
this point.
Everildo Ybaceta: And the other issue with that is ... in Josh's defense ... you have
how many staff?
Terry Jerulle: You don't have to defend him ... we're not ...
Everildo Ybaceta: He has a staff of three to deal with all of the items that he's dealing
with and if we have to add more staffing just to contact the homeowners ... at the end of
the day here, we're going to be affected by it.
Terry Jerulle: It's just a form letter.
Vice Chairman Lantz: If you had done this 47 permits ago, we probably wouldn't be
49 permits into it now. And maybe he'd be able to get by with only two people on his
staff.
Patrick White: I think everyone understands that and our responsibility today is to
deal with one individual and to try to set what I consider to be the right balance of
encouragement versus threat. The only way I know how to do that would be by way of
a motion that would—I don't know if the right word is "continue" the matter for 60
days and, at that time, if the void and expired permits are not addressed completely, the
Board will impose Sanctions. I would ask Mr. Schneck to let us know what are the
options that we have relative to the Sanctions ... I know we reviewed them once before
but if you could refresh our memories.
Attorney Schneck: The Sanctions that may be imposed upon a State-certified
contractor are limited to:
• Revoking the contractor's permit-pulling privileges;
• Placing conditions upon the contractor's permit-pulling privileges;
• Sending a written recommendation to the State requesting review and
further action
Chairman Boyd: Can we revoke his ability to even work in the County?
Attorney Schneck: No, we cannot.
Assistant County Attorney Noell stated he thought it would be beneficial to schedule
a meeting so he could explain to Mr. Bumpus the ramifications of his actions
concerning the void and expired permits and explain what the County's
recommendation to the Board would mean to him. He also thought it would be
beneficial for Mr. Ybaceta and him to speak with a State Investigator to discuss the
case and what the Investigator intends to do concerning the Board's recommendation.
He further stated he hoped meeting with Mr. Bumpus to explain the gravity of the
situation and the number of permits involved would be the leverage needed to convince
him to close out the permits. If Mr. Bumpus does not comply, Mr. Noell will explain
that the County will pursue every option available as well as explaining the level of
Sanctions the Board will impose. Attorney Noell further recommended that the Board
should red-line a date for compliance and if the date is not met, the County will present
its recommendations to the Board.
Patrick White: What is the difference be between that and a recommendation from
the County to continue for 30 days for you to have that conversation with a clear
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expression—and I'm not trying to pre judge the matter as to when it would be heard
next—that the strong probability is that this Board will, at that point, impose a 30-day
time limit. And thereafter, the Sanctions that are available to the Board will be
imposed.
Assistant County Attorney Noe11: Your approach, Mr. White, would be the better
approach because we would find out where Mr. Bumpus is when we explain the
exposure to him. If he decides not to show for that meeting, then it gives us a much
quicker avenue to come before this Board.
Patrick White: I think we're talking about the same time frames— at least in my mind
—I don't want to speak for the Board members—but I would like to see this thing done
and over from our perspective in no more than 60 days. I would not have an issue if
Mr. Bumpus failed to respond or participate. You could come back in 30 days from
now and I think we would be done with this case.
Richard Joslin: Would it be advisable to have the Building Official at that meeting?
Assistant County Attorney Noell: I would recommend a Continuance for 30 days. I
would not want to set a deadline of sixty days ...
Patrick White: Right—it would give him more time to just goof off...
Assistant County Attorney Noe11: If we set the Continuance for 30 days, then we can
come back with either a full recommendation or the status of how things have changed.
Terry Jerulle: I don't disagree with anything that has been said but—in my mind—if
I'm a homeowner and County and the Contractors' Licensing Board have been talking
about these permits for months,but no one has told me that I have a problem with my
air-conditioner, I would be upset. Right? If there any reason why we can't do a form
letter to the residents to let them know there is a problem with their inspection?
Everildo Ybaceta: It's never been done.
Terry Jerulle: You're saying Collier County hasn't done it,but it's been done in other
counties.
Matthew Nolton: The question was—is there any reason why we can't—and I didn't
hear you say, "no." It's just about manpower.
Everildo Ybaceta: I can't answer that portion of it because I would need to meet with
Managers and Directors to see how they would want to handle that.
Assistant County Attorney Noe11: I think there could be potential legal issues
involved with that, for example, if we called an individual and the County made a
mistake because their permit was fine ...
Terry Jerulle: With a form letter, you will know what permits are not closed.
Assistant County Attorney Noe11: I understand.
Terry Jerulle: The address is on the permit ...
Assistant County Attorney Noe11: Right.
Terry Jerulle: ... you just take that information and send a form letter ...
Assistant County Attorney Noe11: I understand how to do it, yes.
Terry Jerulle: ... it's a simple ...
Matthew Nolton: Are you worried about the accuracy of the data?
Assistant County Attorney Noell: Not only that, but my issue now becomes a legal
issue that I would need to think through and would probably need to do some research
on it because what then happens is that we, as a County,become more proactive into
individual permits with individual owners on a level that may be one step too far
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where the onus starts to become on us to ensure that a contractor is doing what he is
supposed to be doing what the Board holds him to do. When the County starts taking
on that kind of a duty—in this case, it may be completely fine—I like the idea of that ...
the County is not against it ... I just need to look at the legalities of if we are taking on
an affirmative role of doing that kind of a job ...
Patrick White: If I'm representing Mr. Bumpus as an attorney, my argument would
be that the County has somehow interfered with the procedural due process rights he
has to close those permits out, and have now put my client, Mr. Bumpus, in a position
where he is being sued by a homeowner.
Terry Jerulle: You've come up with a reason not to do anything.
Assistant County Attorney Noell: Oh, no ... no ...
Patrick White: I was ready to make a motion, Mr. Jerulle.
Terry Jerulle: You were asking us for our opinions. My opinion is to do the letter.
Listen, if it doesn't get settled here, it will go to Code Enforcement or Code
Compliance—is that what we said ... correct?
Patrick White: It can.
Terry Jerulle: So, what's going to happen then? The same thing,right?
Assistant County Attorney Noell: I advise the Code Enforcement Board and I
prosecute cases before that Board. There are outliers in every system so if you have a
big funnel where the standard violations—people who knowingly do it—homeowners
who knowingly allow it, you have this big filter. And in every situation—this is a great
example—you have certain outliers and you look at those on a case-by-case basis, but
the challenge legally is to apply the same law to the outlier and there is a level of
"wiggle room" that's allowable. But when you start to get into the issues that we are
talking about the risk from an attorney—and not just because we don't want to it—the
risk is we start taking on affirmative duties to get in between a contractor and the
homeowner. At that kind of a level, one of the risks that the County faces is that the
County becomes judge,jury, and executioner. This case involves violations. The
Board has not yet made its determination—because it has been continued. I'm not
saying that this is why we would not do it—I need to research it, so I can advise my
client—Collier County Board of County Commissioners—so I don't subject the County
to a lawsuit because we have become too aggressive—that's all I'm saying.
Matthew Nolton: And that could be crafted into the letter—just a simple letter saying,
"Hey, Homeowner, we are notifying you that you have an expired permit or one that is
void which could be an issue in the future ...
Patrick White: I think we are well past"could."
Matthew Nolton: Fine.
Patrick White: I think it's a fact, and I think that's what Mr. Noell is saying. And
there's nothing as a directive from this Board simply by agreeing to continue this case
for thirty days that precludes the County from doing that. I don't think we have the
jurisdiction to order but if I were in Mr. Noell's shoes, I certainly would take it under
advisement as a tool to address those outliers. Believe me, I've been in his chair
relative to the prosecution of those cases—hundreds of them—and I understand what
the challenges are. To find a way past, that's what I've always sought to do on this
Board.
Matthew Nolton: What is more concerning for me—I don't know if this is an outlier.
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August 15,2018 .
Josh, how many permits do you have in the County right now that are void or
expired? The last I knew it was 30,000.
Joshua Lenio: The figure is 77,000.
Matthew Nolton: 77,000. As a matter of fact, the guy that didn't come today—I
looked him up and he's got a whole bunch listed as expired. We let him off on one, but
he's got the same condition it seems like when I looked at his record. This isn't an
outlier to me. It's a problem that the County has allowed to happen through the years.
I understand—two different systems and everything—but somehow, the County must
figure out how it is going to handle that monster once and for all so that we can get
through it.
Assistant County Attorney Noell: I agree with you. When I use the term, "outlier,"
what I'm saying is ... at the level of the County Attorney's Office addressing it—to my
knowledge—this is the first time somebody with 44 expired permits on an issue and a
desire to have people come into compliance—the fact that it is at this level, for me, is
an outlier. I don't deal in the world of issuing permits—that's not my function. Your
point is well taken. I think Evy and his staff have addressed the proactive nature now
of what they are trying to do to close out these permits and closing this procedural loop
hole. With that is going to come more of these things. I need to make sure legally that
we are on solid ground as we put a procedure in place to close them and that we're also
exerting the proper legal leverage to get them closed or to figure out if someone is just
stalling. We're going to move forward with a strong recommendation to the Board and
a strong recommendation to the State.
Patrick White: Having been the attorney who helped negotiate the contracts for a lot
of the databases that are currently being used, I understand that it was a problem that
couldn't exist in the past when it was a far more paperwork-driven system. So, the
efficiency of the newer databases to be able to track and provide the information that
Josh has shared with us is a good thing. But what's come from the "good thing" is the
cottage industry in the real estate market where there's this opportunity for people to
hold up a closing and gain the advantage of having the permit properly closed out,
which I think is certainly appropriate. I think we're struggling with how to solve a
problem that only computers have helped us to create.
Chairman Boyd: Mr. White, you never did make your motion—Mr. Jerulle stopped
you.
Patrick White: I did make the motion.
Chairman Boyd: You did?
Patrick White moved to approve continuing the hearing of Case#2018-04:Jeffery
Bumpus—Misconduct of a State-certified Contractor to the September meeting.
Richard Joslin: That's thirty days.
Patrick White: Yes.
Terry Jerulle: Are we having a meeting next month?
Everildo Ybaceta: Yes, sir.
Richard Joslin offered a Second in support of the motion. Motion carried; the vote
was 5— "Yes"/2— "No." Chairman Boyd and Terry Jerulle were opposed.
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August 15,2018
Patrick White requested to be excused from attending the Board meeting in
September.
Chairman Boyd reminded the Members the next Board meeting would be held on
Wednesday, September 19th, at 9:00 AM.
X. PUBLIC HEARING:
A. Case#2018-09: The Board of County Commissioners, Plaintiff, vs. George
Gareau, d/b/a "The Aluminum Store," Respondent
(Note: This case was withdrawn by the County,per Amended Agenda.)
VII. REPORTS:
(Postponed from earlier)
Terry Jerulle: Wasn't there was something we were to talk about later?
Patrick White: Yes—now is a good time.
Everildo Ybaceta: Packet delivery?
Patrick White: Packet delivery, mechanism, process, timing ...
Everildo Ybaceta: Okay. We are working to have the packets delivered electronically
in the future to an email address—some sort of electronic correspondence—so you can
have them ... not in the paper format. And when we do come to the meetings, the
computers that are before you will be set so you can scroll through the proceedings as
they go along.
Patrick White: Would those documents that you have be susceptible to any notes or
annotations that I may make to those electronic versions that you provide to me?
Everildo Ybaceta: Yes, you can make your own notation as you do right now.
Patrick White: Exactly, and it doesn't do me any good to look a document that was
the original if I've gone through and made a bunch of notes and have questions—as I
do on the paper copies—if it's not what I'm going to see on the screen.
Richard Joslin: You may probably need to have a separate piece of paper--look at
them and make notes with ...
Patrick White: No, well, I'm asking to have a conversation about whether—once you
send the document to me and I email it back—that's the one I can look at. Or if there's
a mechanism by which the one I look at, I can send to myself. There must be a way to
be able to do it. You can annotate PDFs.
Everildo Ybaceta: I'm sure you could, and I'll give you more information as it
becomes available.
Patrick White: I'm not adverse to the electronic, but what I've found is that it is for
more efficient for me—when preparing for a meeting—to have paper.
Reggie Smith: Maybe that's an option we could provide if some of the Board
members still would like a paper copy along with their electronic version?
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August 15,2018
Everildo Ybaceta: It's an all or none situation—I'm sorry, it has—unfortunately this
is the wave of the future and we're headed into it ... computers. Sorry.
Matthew Nolton: So, if it's going to come in a PDF format,Mr. White, then you
could bring a laptop here if you had one and you could have you marked-up version. I
doubt that each one of these will be a different version.
Everildo Ybaceta: You will each have your own accounts ...
Matthew Nolton: Oh, okay.
Everildo Ybaceta: Yes, I believe there may be a mechanism where you can make
notes on it.
Patrick White: Yes, and email it to myself.
Everildo Ybaceta: Or you could just save it.
Patrick White: It's not inconsistent with what the Planning Commission and other
advisory boards are having.
Everildo Ybaceta: Correct. It's the same system.
Patrick White: I wasn't sure that it was the same.
Reggie Smith stated he wished to correct information concerning a previous case
regarding the Second Entity. The Board had discussed that the testing was available in
Spanish. The Business and Law exam is available in English and Spanish but some of
the study guides are not. Tests for some of the trades are available in both languages.
Richard Joslin mentioned an issue he had with the delivery of the information packet
to his home. He has an electronic gate which needs a code to open—he stated he
would provide the code for the next delivery.
NEXT MEETING DATE: WEDNESDAY,SEPTEMBER 19,2018
BCC Chambers, 3rd Floor—Administrative Building "F,
Government Complex, 3301 E. Tamiami Trail, Naples, FL
There being no further business for the good of the County,the meeting was adjourned by
order of the Chairman at 12:30 PM.
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August 15,2018
COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS'
LICENSING BOARD
MICHAEL BOY Chairman
The Minutes were approved by the Chairman or Vice Chairman of the Contractors' Licensing
Board on /9 ,2018, "as submitted"[.x l - OR- "as amended" [ ]
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