CLB Minutes 04/20/2005 R
April 20, 2005
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
CONTRACTOR LICENSING BOARD
Naples, Florida
April 20, 2005
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Contractors' Licensing Board,
in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein,
met on this date at 9:00 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F"
of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following
members present:
CHAIRMAN:
Les Dickson
David L. Beswick
Sid Blum
Eric Guite'
Lee Horn
Ann Keller
William Lewis
Mike Boyd
ALSO PRESENT:
Thomas Bartoe, Licensing Compliance Officer
Robert Zachary, County Attorney
Patrick Neale, Counsel to the Board
Jim Hoopingarner, License Compliance Officer
Michael Ossorio, License Compliance Officer
Page 1
AGENDA
COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD
DATE: APRIL 20,2005
TIME: 9:00 A.M.
W. HARMON TURNER BUILDING
(ADMINISTRATION BUILDING)
COURTHOUSE COMPLEX
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE
PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM
RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THAT TESTIMONY AND
EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
I. ROLL CALL
II. ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS:
III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
DATE: February 16, 2005
V. DISCUSSION:
VI. NEW BUSINESS:
Steve M. Johnson - Request to qualify a 2nd entity.
Nancy S. Faulconer - Request to waive technical exam for a Masonry license.
VII. OLD BUSINESS:
VIII PUBLIC HEARINGS:
IX. REPORTS:
X. NEXT MEETING DATE:
Wednesday, May 16, 2005
April 20, 2005
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. I would like to call to order the
meeting of the Collier County Contractor Licensing board, April 20th,
2005.
Any person who decides to appeal a decision of this board will
need a record of the proceedings pertaining thereto and therefore may
need to ensure that a verbatim record of the proceedings is made,
which record includes that testimony and evidence upon which the
appeal is based.
I would like to start off with role call on my right, please.
MR. LEWIS: William Lewis.
MR. BESWICK: David Beswick.
MR. BLUM: Sid Blum.
MS. KELLER: Ann Keller.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Les Dickson.
MR. HORN: Lee Horn.
MR. BOYD: Mike Boyd.
MR. GUITE: Eric Guite.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Also any -- Mr. Bartoe, any additions
or deletions to the minutes -- or the agenda? Excuse me.
MR. BAR TOE: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, board members.
For the record, I'm Tom Bartoe, Collier County Licensing Compliance
Officer.
I have a couple of additions. Under new business, add Barbara
Goodenough, request to qualify a second entity.
Under public hearings, add Gregory Johnson, request a hearing
on Citation No. 2181.
Staff has no other additions or deletions other than we have
added a new member to staff and I would like to introduce him to
everyone now. His name is Allen Kennette. He replaces Robin Horn.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good to have you, Allen.
I need a motion to approve the agenda as amended.
MR. BLUM: So moved, Blum.
Page 2
April 20, 2005
MR. BESWICK: Second, Beswick.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor.
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BESWICK: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MS. KELLER: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
Also, now we look to -- need to look at last month's minutes. I
need to get an approval of those minutes, assuming everyone has had a
chance to read them.
MR. BLUM: I move we accept the minutes as read.
MR. LEWIS: Seconded, Lewis.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor.
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BESWICK: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MS. KELLER: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
Good. No discussion.
Moving right into new business. Steve Johnson, are you present?
If you would come up to this podium here, I need for you to state
your name and then we'll have you sworn in.
MR. JOHNSON: Steve M. Johnson.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Steve, give us an overview. What are
you doing and why?
Page 3
April 20, 2005
MR. JOHNSON: I'm starting a service company to service
landscape lighting and to also service computerized lighting systems
in residences, large custom homes.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you present qualify --
MR. JOHNSON: Advanced Electrical Concepts.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Advanced Electrical. And you are
going to qualify Lighting Care Specialists.
It's getting to be big business, isn't it?
MR. JOHNSON: Yes, it is.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes. Done some at my house.
Are you -- do you own both entities?
MR. JOHNSON: I'm partners in both.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Give us just a minute to double
check everything.
Any questions of the board? Feel free.
MR. Bartoe, any complaints on Advanced Electrical?
MR. BARTOE: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay.
MR. LEWIS: MR. Johnson--
MR. JOHNSON: Yes.
MR. LEWIS: -- over on this end. Hi.
How long have you been in business as Advanced Electrical
Concepts?
MR. JOHNSON: Six years.
MR. LEWIS: Six years.
I noticed in the reports I don't see any records here for Advanced
Electrical Concepts. On the credit report it just says there's no records
found. Is that -- has the business been active?
MR. JOHNSON: Oh, yes. There should have been -- I even
checked over when I supplied all that information, they had
everything.
MR. LEWIS: We have your personal.
Page 4
April 20, 2005
Also, for the articles of incorporation it does not show you listed
as owner under the owner information, and it has a note here that --
from, I presume from staff, correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Bartoe, on
the corporations on line, it shows that Rhonda L. Materi is the only
owner information --
MR. JOHNSON: Yes, she is at this time--
MR. LEWIS: -- is that correct?
MR. JOHNSON: I'm buying in 50 percent.
MR. LEWIS: Okay. So you are not really an owner of the
company yet.
MR. JOHNSON: Not yet.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Are you pretty much -- with
Advanced Electrical were you pretty much just paying the bills
personally?
MR. JOHNSON: No. I don't follow what you mean, personally.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, because we do have a credit
notation in here that they looked under Advanced Electrical Concepts
and found no records in the public records as far as credit.
MR. JOHNSON: That's -- I mean, as far as that, that's
concerned, we do 1.2 million in sales a year, and I can't imagine that
there's no credit there.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes, unless except what they looked
under was Advanced Electrical Concepts, they didn't do Inc. But they
do have your FEIN number.
MR. JOHNSON: Yes.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do you know that by memory?
MR. JOHNSON: No, I don't.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Ah, come on.
MR. NEALE: MR. Dickson, it also looks like they only checked
one database. They only checked Experian.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay.
MS. KELLER: But you said it was provided in the packet that
Page 5
April 20, 2005
you gave.
MR. JOHNSON: Yes, it should have been all faxed over.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: The same thing when I see no records
found, that also means there's no bad records, no foreclosures, no
lawsuits, nothing of that nature --
MR. JOHNSON: Nothing.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- that would show?
MR. JOHNSON: We're always paid on time.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay.
Any other questions of the board?
MS. KELLER: At what point did you take a 50 percent
ownership of the previous company?
MR. JOHNSON: Right from the beginning I started that off.
MS. KELLER: So why isn't it in the articles of incorporation?
MR. JOHNSON: Now, that's with Lighting Care Specialists, the
one that we're starting --
MS. KELLER: Right.
MR. JOHNSON: -- I haven't taken 50 percent of that currently.
MS. KELLER: Doesn't it say that you are 50 percent in each of
the companies in your application?
MR. JOHNSON: Yes, it does, because it's in the works right
now.
MR. NEALE: Well, state records on line aren't going to show
owners necessarily, stocks transferred after it's initially filed. There is
no requirement to file with the state that you've changed ownership or
who the shareholders are.
MR. JOHNSON: I just actually wrote a check for that so I was
buying into the company.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any other questions? Any other
questions or a motion?
MR. BLUM: I motion we accept this application as requested.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do we have a second?
Page 6
April 20, 2005
MR. LEWIS: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any discussion?
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BESWICK: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MS. KELLER: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You got it. Let me give you a word.
All of your files are here so don't go to the county today --
MR. JOHNSON: Okay.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- but you can go there tomorrow and
finalize that.
MR. JOHNSON: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Thank you. Best of luck to you.
Nancy Faulconer, are you present?
MS. FAULCONER: Here.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you would come up, please, state
your name. You may want to spell it for the recorder. And I'll have
you sworn in as well.
MS. FAULCONER: Nancy Faulconer.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Tell us your plight.
MS. FAULCONER: I am the secretary for Faulconer Tile and
Stone Masonry. My father-in-law, Michael, Sr. holds our license. He's
our qualifier.
My husband has been a student of the State of Florida masonry
Page 7
April 20, 2005
program. He's highly decorated, student of the year. He has a day
named after him. I brought a book that shows all of our
accomplishments. He just is not very literal, and when he reads a
question on the test it -- he can't answer it.
So he took the test last year and I think he got a 60 on the
business and law and on the masonry. And he had come to the board
meeting and they told him, in light of his accomplishments, if he
would take the test and not pass, he should come back.
Well, I told him, I'll take the test. I'm a college grad, I can read,
it's an open book test. Well, I've taken it five times and I've -- not quite
make it.
The first time I got a 60 on the masonry and then I pulled that up
to, I believe a 73 was the highest score I got. I need a 75 to pass.
And the business and law I aced the first time. So I'm here today
to ask, I guess, for a license in spite of me not being able to pass the
test. But really, what I would like to do is be able to pass the test.
And I've contacted Experior to ask them if they would provide
me with what I'm missing so I can find the answers and come back
and take it, and they told me they can't do that.
I signed up for the building trades education course. I went to the
study. I've really spent a year and a half banging my head against the
wall trying to pass this masonry test.
So it's kind of embarrassing that I come here today and say,
Help, I can't seem to pass it.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you are going to be what, a
secondary qualifier?
MS. FAULCONER: I would like to be the qualifier. My
father-in-law would like to retire. So I would hold the license in order
for my husband and I to continue the business.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. It's always good to have a
secondary qualifier too.
MS. FAULCONER: Yes. I want him to continue taking the test
Page 8
April 20, 2005
but that is going to require some convincing. And I think, if I can get
the license and take the pressure off, he may be able to go ahead and
do it and pass it, but -- you know men.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, come on now. I think you are out
numbered here.
MS. FAULCONER: They give me a hard time every time I
come, why are you back, why are you back? I'm going to pass it this
time.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But you obviously aced the business
and law at 94.
MS. FAULCONER: Yes. I feel very confident in my role.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And your 72 is what you had in
masonry, which, just for the board's edification, if you are not aware,
Collier County requires 75 but most other counties, including Lee,
require 70.
MR. BAR TOE: I believe.
MS. FAULCONER: Every time I left there I thought, I got it this
time. But it was a good experience. I learned quite a bit.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Questions of the board?
MR. BLUM: You took it in July of '04, and got a 72. You were
right there. And then you tried it in November and didn't make it, you
didn't show up for that one.
The way I see this, you took it six times. Well, you took it once
more after you made application to us. And then you did a little bit
worse in March --
MS. FAULCONER: Yeah.
MR. BLUM: -- you dropped a little bit.
MS. FAULCONER: They changed the test. The first two times I
took it it was the same, and then they changed it the next couple of
times. I thought it was only five. Maybe it was six.
MR. BLUM: So you took it in May of'04 and got a 66, in July
of '04 and got a 72. And then in March they changed the test and you
Page 9
April 20, 2005
lost four points.
MR. NEALE: I do want to point out to the board, just so that
when you do your findings of fact you can take this into account. The
standard for this type of waiver is that the board may consider the
applicant's relevant recent experience in the specific trade, and based
upon such experience may waive the testing requirements if convinced
that the applicant is qualified by experience whereby such competency
testing would be superfluous. So that's the testing for the waiver.
MR. BLUM: You're not actually out there in the field doing the
work?
MS. FAULCONER: I have been. Actually, I started working at
Cox Tile before I met and married Michael. So I had a little
experience there. I would basically do all their payroll and their books.
After that I worked at a marketing firm for eight years. But
recently, with my husband Michael, I have been driving around doing
punch-out, which is all the little details that have to be done
afterwards. So I've kind of learned what's right and what's wrong. And
our masonry is done decorative, it's not structural, so we don't really
have to be concerned with the codes for hurricanes. But it has to be
pretty and it has to be pleasing, so I have been doing a lot of the
pictures and the punch-out.
MR. BLUM: So that's probably why you are having trouble with
this, is you don't have hands-on experience.
MS. FAULCONER: Probably, yes.
MR. BLUM: And if you don't -- you're not out there in the field
doing buildings and doing block --
MS. FAULCONER: But it's an open book test, so that's why I
was having trouble. I'm like, okay, I can take a book and I can find the
answer. But there's one book, the masonry book, that you can't bring
in with you, and that's the one I've just been reading, reading, reading
at home, but --
MR. BLUM: You need to get out in the field.
Page 10
April 20, 2005
MS. FAULCONER: Yeah, I need to go out in the field more.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I'm familiar with Faulconer. My
company is on, seems like, the same jobs they are. I've known that
company for years and years. They do excellent work.
MS. FAULCONER: Thank you.
MS. KELLER: And you said your husband took the test as well?
MS. FAULCONER: He took it one time and he was just, his
confidence was shattered. He's not a book learner, he has to be in it.
MS. KELLER: What were his scores?
MS. FAULCONER: I think he got a 60.
MR. BARTOE: Should the board approve this, staff would
request with a full application because I don't believe we have an
application on file.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Uh-huh.
MS. KELLER: You know, Nancy, it's hard because usually we
have the case where people can't pass the business and law.
MS. FAULCONER: Right, I know. I'm backwards.
MS. KELLER: And they know their field, so it's -- I think we're
all kind of a little stumped trying to figure out how to handle this. We
want you to -- we appreciate how hard you've worked to try and get it,
but --
MS. FAULCONER: Well, I can keep taking it but I would like
to know where my weaknesses are so I can fix them. And Experior
told me that's not possible, I just have to keep taking the test.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What we've done in the past as a
general rule, just -- I mean, we have had people come in here, request
variances when they have had 40s. And they have taken the test twice.
We've never really given in to that.
I do know numerous times where we've seen people that have
taken the test numerous times like she has that have gotten to the 72 or
73 that, in the past, we've normally been lenient if they took a lot of
tests. If she would have come in or they come in the first time or the
Page 11
April 20, 2005
second time, we haven't felt so charitable.
MR. LEWIS: Mr. Chairman, if I may add to that, and correct me
if I'm wrong, we have also considered their experience in the field and
the fact they are out there every day doing the work and have had
supervision above them and been in a supervisory role. I think we
have had that in consideration too.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Right.
Have you taken any of the preps?
MS. FAULCONER: Yes. I did the BTES prep back when I first
started. I still have the workbooks but I haven't attended the class
recently.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Uh-huh. It's amazing to me that a lot
of people think these tests are easy. They are not.
MS. FAULCONER: I also told them, I said, I can take any test,
especially if it's open book. Well, guess what.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, we've all had the tests up here
too, we know they're difficult. Well, expect for couple.
What's the feelings of the board?
MR. LEWIS: MR. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes.
MR. LEWIS: As much as I would love to, to help them out, I've
known Mike personally, I've known him for over 20-something years,
and you're right, the quality of their work is exemplary, I do feel for
your flight. Unfortunately, I can't at this time in all good judgment and
according to our ordinances, I can't recommend passing this. I think
you are just going to have to keep trying at it. I think you are so close
right now that --
MS. FAULCONER: Right, a couple more times.
MR. LEWIS: -- I think that you can just keep working at it and
you should have it shortly.
MS. FAULCONER: Okay.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I hear a second?
Page 12
April 20, 2005
MR. BLUM: I'll second that we not approve it at this time.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any discussion?
You guys are being quiet down on this side today.
MR. GUITE: Thought, deep thought.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. The motion has been made and
seconded.
All those in favor signify by saying aye.
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BESWICK: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
All those opposed?
MS. KELLER: Aye.
MR. GUITE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. Two, three.
Who said nay?
MR. GUITE: I did.
MS. KELLER: I did.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. There's three of us. We've got a
split vote, but unfortunately it's not in your favor. It's five to three.
Let me also advise to you we have approved another testing
agency, which we have found to be much -- how do I say this
tactfully, Mr. Bartoe?
MR. BAR TOE: I'm sorry?
MS. FAULCONER: More achievable?
MS. KELLER: User friendly.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: More--
MS. KELLER: User friendly.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: More cooperative.
Who is the new outfit that we approved?
MR. BAR TOE: I was going to ask her if office staff has
Page 13
April 20, 2005
mentioned the other testing agency, and they come --
MS. FAULCONER: Not yet.
MR. BAR TOE: -- they come right here to the county once a
month.
MS. FAULCONER: Okay.
MR. BAR TOE: And it's all done on computer right there. And I
believe you are allowed to review it as soon as you are finished.
MS. FAULCONER: So I have to go downtown and sign up as
usual, just ask her for the other?
MR. BARTOE: Yes.
MS. FAULCONER: Okay, great.
MR. BAR TOE: It's Gainesville Independent Testing.
MS. FAULCONER: Okay.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's the one. And they also for--
you know, if anyone else is asking, they give it in other languages,
- obviously predominantly Spanish.
MS. FAULCONER: Uh-huh.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's why we approved it, is because
they were -- we found them much friendlier.
MS. FAULCONER: Okay, great.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We wanted to approve this, you know
that.
MS. FAULCONER: I appreciate it.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Because we respect the company.
MS. FAULCONER: I'll keep taking the test.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What we have to be careful of, too,
and that's why Bill made the motion he did--
MS. FAULCONER: Sure.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- is, who's going to come in here next
month after they hear about this one.
MS. FAULCONER: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You can do it.
Page 14
April 20, 2005
MS. FAULCONER: I can do it.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay.
Barbara Goodenough, can you come forward, please? He sent
you all by himself, didn't he?
MS. GOODENOUGH: He did, he's out of town.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you would, state your name. I need
to have you sworn in.
MS. GOODENOUGH: Good morning, I'm Barb Goodenough.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Give us a brief overview of
what you are doing, Barbara.
MS. GOODENOUGH: Okay. I'm currently the qualifier for air
continuing for Dixie Plumbing and Air. And my husband and I have
decided to split the air conditioning and the plumbing phase of the
business. We purchased a franchise called One Hour Air Conditioning
to handle the air conditioning side of the business.
And in speaking with contractor licensing, perhaps the easiest
way to do it is to qualify the second entity, which both my husband
and I are major stockholders of, only stockholders, as the second
entity. Dixie Plumbing and Air will eventually not do air conditioning
any more. We had too many people asking us when we did their
plumb and service work to recommend an air conditioning company,
so the name Dixie Plumbing and Air really didn't register the air part.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, my. So you are going to get out
of air continuing?
MS. GOODENOUGH: Oh, no, no --
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay.
MS. GOODENOUGH: -- we want to do the One Hour Air
Conditioning. It's a national franchise, actually, and -- so that a person
that uses that company, One Hour Air Conditioning up in Michigan,
has the same quality and service down here in Naples. They have very
high standards for the air conditioning work and they are very
Page 15
-"""--
April 20, 2005
customer-oriented, which falls in line with what we want to do.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And by doing the second entity that
saves you an unbelievable fortune in truck lettering, stationery and
everything else, right?
MS. GOODENOUGH: No, absolutely not, because we went
ahead and did the truck lettering and the painting and everything else
in the stationery to go with the second entity because we wanted to
keep the two companies separate now.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay.
MS. GOODENOUGH: What it does allow me to do is continue
doing business without -- and being able to pull permits as One Hour
Air Conditioning by qualifying it as a second entity rather than as the
state approves my license transfer there would be a period of time
where I could not do business and that would be a very hardship on
our part.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Well, you know Dave says you
run the company anyway.
MS. GOODENOUGH: He's the brains.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Any questions of the board?
MS. KELLER: Can you tell us about the citation that you had.
MS. GOODENOUGH: Yes. We had the trucks lettered and
printed and we, although we spoke with Maggie down at the county as
far as switching over the air conditioning, we didn't get the paperwork
in to the county and I used the new trucks and we were caught doing
Dixie Plumbing and Air work with the One Hour Air truck with our
existing license on it.
MS. KELLER: Did you pay the fine?
MS. GOODENOUGH: Yes, we did. We were overzealous.
MR. BLUM: Are you going to continue -- you have the new
construction end and the service business change-outs also?
MS. GOODENOUGH: We've never done the new construction
end of the air conditioning. I -- you know, I think we're just doing the
Page 16
April 20, 2005
service end of the business and some replacement work.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's interesting as I look at these credit
reports that all of our credit reports now have accounts closed at First
National and new accounts as Fifth Third. It's added about four pages
to every one of our -- I know it added to mine.
Who is Universal Adjustment Corporation?
MS. GOODENOUGH: Is that the open pending case still?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes.
MS. GOODENOUGH: That was from a situation that happened
back in 2002. It's a homeowner's insurance company, and the only
reason it went to a lawsuit is because we had asked for some back-up
information as far as what the claimant is claiming and we've never
received it, and the next thing we know it's a lawsuit. We expect that
be settled. Our insurance company is handling that one.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay.
MS. GOODENOUGH: That was a bad fitting on a water heater.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. Unfortunately, we all have
some of those. They show on my reports too.
MS. GOODENOUGH: As a service company you have to try
and keep your customers happy.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Uh-huh.
Any other questions?
MR. LEWIS: MR. Chairman, if I may, of staff. Tom, do you
know what type of license this is, the RA? Is that like -- what -- is that
just service?
MR. BAR TOE: Registered Air.
MR. LEWIS: Is that just service?
MR. BAR TOE: Without it in front of me --
MS. GOODENOUGH: I have a Class A air conditioning license,
but we only do the service part of the business; that's correct.
MR. LEWIS: Okay. But it is a county license, then, right?
MS. GOODENOUGH: It is.
Page 1 7
April 20, 2005
MR. BARTOE: Staff did suggest to her to proceed this way
because if she switched the AC license to the new company, then
Dixie would then be advertising wrong, saying Dixie Plumbing and
Air on side of all their trucks.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Right.
MR. BAR TOE: This way she can keep the air on the Dixie
Plumbing and Air trucks and plus have the new company.
MR. LEWIS: Tom, is there any outstanding citation or
investigations ongoing with Dixie Plumbing and Air?
MR. BARTOE: None that I know of. She stated she paid that
citation that was issued to One Hour; is that correct?
MS. GOODENOUGH: That's correct.
MR. LEWIS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Sounds like Michael was out and
about.
MR. BAR TOE: I would guess.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Michael finds everybody.
MS. GOODENOUGH: That's okay, that's what he should be
doing.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: He does a wonderful job.
MR. BESWICK: MR. Chairman, I make a motion we approve
this application.
MS. KELLER: Let me just ask one more question. Can you --
you still have a pending lawsuit with Universal Adjustment
Corporation. Can you tell me about that?
MS. GOODENOUGH: That's the one with the water heater that
was done back in 2002. And she had -- her homeowner insurance paid
that -- handled that claim. Their homeowners' insurance came to us
but we had no record of the address they gave us, any of the claim
information, and there was quite a bit of faulty misinformation. And
we asked them for more information, they never responded, and this is
the result of that just a month ago. So our insurance is handling that
Page 18
April 20, 2005
one.
MS. KELLER: Sorry. Thanks.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. I have a motion to approve. I
have a second?
MR. HORN: I'll second the motion, Horn.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any discussion?
All those in favor.
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BESWICK: Aye.
MS. KELLER: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
Opposed?
MR. BLUM: Abstain.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You're eight -- eight -- one abstention.
It's approved.
MS. GOODENOUGH: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We wish you well.
MS. GOODENOUGH: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you.
MR. BARTOE: Barbara, I have your folder here, so please don't
come into the office until tomorrow because the girls in there will not
have the paperwork.
MS. GOODENOUGH: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Finished with new business. No old
business. Public hearings, Gregory Johnson are you present?
MR. JOHNSON: I am.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you would come forward, sir, state
_ your name. I'll have you sworn in.
MR. JOHNSON: My name is Gregory Johnson.
Page 19
April 20, 2005
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And why are you here? Give us a
scenano.
MR. JOHNSON: Do you want to swear me in?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh. Go ahead. Sorry.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MR. JOHNSON: I am here to appeal a citation that we received,
and I think you have the paperwork on there, 2181.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do we have any paperwork?
MS. KELLER: Yes.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's in the packet?
MR. NEALE: That was handed to you by --
MR. BARTOE: Yes, it was just passed out earlier this morning.
MR. JOHNSON: Mr. Hoopingarner, I believe, gave it to you.
MR. NEALE: Yes, he handed it out this morning.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I think he went by me.
MR. HOOPINGARNER: I may have missed you, you were in
conference with MR. Bartoe at the time.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Thank you. Do you need this?
Go ahead, I'm sorry.
MR. JOHNSON: We received the citation and there were some
circumstances that made us feel we wanted to appeal the citation. And
basically it's for doing a -- writing a contract without having the
licensing for us to do so.
We are a retail operation in Naples, Marco in granite. We sell
granite and marble, basically, countertops. And we're a start-up
company, we're new in the business. We received our licenses, you
see on here, back in November, and we basically started doing
business in January of this year. We are a retail showroom.
During our investigative period before we started the business,
of course we contacted a plethora of government agencies from the
federal down to the state to the city to the county government to make
sure that whatever we were doing when we came to do business in
Page 20
April 20, 2005
Collier County that we were a legal entity and that we were doing
business crossing all of our Ts and dotting all of our Is.
During this process, of course one of the things we asked was,
you know, what licenses do we need to do business here in Collier.
And we went down to Horseshoe and talked to the people down there
and they said, Well, we needed -- what we -- asked what kind of
business we were going into, and we told them and went through quite
a bit of questioning with them, and they came back and said, Then you
need to have a -- it's a retail business, you need to have a retail license,
and which they gave us.
We did that not on one occasion; we did it actually on three
different occasions, and asked the same question and were given the
same answer. So from that part of our business we felt that we were
legal and moving forward, and that's what we thought we were doing.
Unfortunately, Mr. Hoopingarner pointed out to us that we were
in violation of a code on there that said that we were basically a
countertop, installing countertops, which we don't do, but when we
went down take a look at the, found the articles, Articles 5 of the
building trades, we saw that on Section 22181 it shows that we were
unlawful to conduct contract without a certificate of competency.
In the subsection of that, 22-162 states that, I'm assuming, that
we are a specialty contractor. And then under subsection 5 of that it
shows that we fall under the heading of cabinet installation contractor,
which is what my confusion came in at because we don't install
cabinetry and we don't install countertops.
Down at the bottom part of that section it also states, under a
scope permitted work shall include but not be limited to kitchen
cabinets, bathroom vanities, accessory cabinets, countertops, office
furniture and millwork items. And I think that's where we fall into the
category because we are involved with countertops.
So, I guess what I'm saying is that we came in to do business
here, we were planning on being in here long term, we are a member
Page 21
April 20, 2005
of the Chamber of Commerce. We are trying to maintain a good
reputation from a business that's four months old and trying to do
business in an up front manner. We have been up front with
everybody from day one, and we find now that we're in violation of
this and we are just appealing this and trying to get this expunged
from our record.
And as an FYI, I am also taking the law and business and law
exam as well. I tried to take it in Clearwater on the 23rd of this month
but unfortunately I wasn't able to get into it because it was full, so I'm
taking it on the 7th here in Naples.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Mr. Hoopingarner.
MR. HOOPINGARNER: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you would state your name.
MR. HOOPINGARNER: My name is James Hoopingarner.
That's H-O-O-P-I-N-G-A-R-N-E-R, pronounced Hoopingarner. I'm a
licensing compliance officer with Collier County, and I'm involved in
this complaint with Citation No. 2181.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MR. HOOPINGARNER: Mr. Chairman, board members, I
passed out this packet to everybody. I don't know whether you need to
have that entered as an exhibit or not, it's just a step following of what
took place with the investigation and so forth. If you don't need it
presented in as an exhibit, I'll continue.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's not a case, right, Mr. Neale?
MR. NEALE: It still should be in the record because they do
have the ability to appeal from here and the appeal is always based on
the record, so it has to be part of the record.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Then I need a motion that this packet
that we all received this morning -- I need a motion to approve this as
Exhibit 1 in this case. Someone give me that?
MR. BESWICK: So moved, Beswick.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Second?
Page 22
April 20, 2005
MS. KELLER: Second, Keller.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor.
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BESWICK: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MS. KELLER: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
Done. Go ahead.
MR. HOOPINGARNER: Thank you.
On April the 1st, at approximately 12:45 p.m., which is a Friday,
my partner Allen Kennette and myself were dispatched by radio to the
location of 148 Plantation Circle. This is the home of Mr. and Mrs.
Charles Brennan. The information we were given at that time was that
there may be a contractor licensing violation at this home involving
two businesses or companies.
The names given to us were Old Naples Marble and Granite and
Powerstone, Inc.
We did proceed to the location, did observe workers on site that
were installing a new countertop. Also, just about the same time we
arrived Mr. Johnson pulled up and we talked to him.
Mr. Johnson advised that he did sell the Brennan's the
countertop; however, he advised that he did not install the countertop,
that the countertop was subcontracted or contracted with Powerstone,
Inc., who unfortunately, in the packet, which we can go through very
briefly, does not have a license to install the countertops, they are
manufacturing only.
So, at this time we contacted Powerstone, Inc. by telephone. The
information given us was very vague at that time and we advised Mr.
Johnson that we would continue our investigation and get back with
Page 23
April 20, 2005
him later on. We didn't issue the citation right there that day because
all the events were not clear to us.
So, as you can see with the packet, we did eventually issue the
citation, 2181. And I want to express that it is not for the -- for Old
Naples Marble and Granite actually doing the installation, it's for
doing contracting business to have the countertop installed.
Referring to the packet, the top letter, of course, marked Number
1 is Mrs. Johnson's letter to us appearing the citation.
The Page No.2 is a copy of the citation where they engaged in a
business as a contractor and so forth for cabinet countertop, along with
a copy of their business card.
Moving to Page No.3, these were provided to us by Mrs.
Johnson, shows the City of Naples occupational license which is for a
retail showroom, because their business is actually in the City of
Naples, and also a copy of our Collier County occupational license
that shows retail sales only.
Page No.4 is a copy of the Collier County business occupational
license application filled out by the Johnson's when they obtained
their occupational license, and it shows that the application is for retail
showroom only.
Page No.5 is a printout of the Collier County tax collector,
states business name, owner, and a description, class. It says retail
sales, storefront only.
Page No.6, and I apologize, it's kind hard to read, but it's a
contract between Mr. and Mrs. Brennan provided by Old Naples
Marble and Granite dated March 21st, '05. The first paragraph right
under where it says tear-out, not applicable, if you can read that, the
first paragraph says Old Naples Marble and Granite, ONM&G, hereby
proposes to furnish materials complete in accordance with the bid
specifications and delivery and fabrication and installation by an
independent contractor for the sum of $3,073.
So, in other words, they quote the price including installation of
Page 24
April 20, 2005
the countertop. They were paid monies for the installation. And then
they then subcontracted the job out to Powerstone for the fabrication
and installation of the countertop.
And of course, Powerstone is not licensed to do the work.
MS. KELLER: What license does Powerstone have?
MR. HOOPINGARNER: Page 8, ma'am. Powerstone has a
Collier County occupational license. It's for stone products
manufacturing. It says right on there no installation.
They are now located -- in fact, they are moving their business, I
guess, up into Lee County. So Powerstone was contacted, and Mr.
Timothy Cardel, on Page 9 you see a copy of the business card and
also a copy of a citation to them for contracting to install a countertop
without being licensed. They have paid their citation.
And Page No. 10 is a copy of our ordinance, 90-105, as
amended, which says: Part 1, certificates of competency required.
Unlawful to contract without a certificate of competency. It shall be
unlawful for any person, firm, partnership, corporation or other legal
entity to engage in any construction contracting business or advertise
or represent himself, herself or a business organization as available to
engage in any construction contracting business.
I won't read the rest of that paragraph because basically those are
the headlines that we're looking at.
And we feel that there was contracting business here for the
installation of a countertop. Monies were paid to Old Naples Marble
and Granite. They in turn subcontracted manufacturing and
installation by, unfortunately, an unlicensed company. And that's why
the citation was issued to Old Naples Marble and Granite.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Pretty much cut and dry. Biggest
problem we have here is we have tried for years to get the word
occupational license changed. It is not a license. It's a fee. It's a fee
that you pay to operate. And if you were just doing retail sales only,
then you were under the guidelines.
Page 25
--.---
April 20, 2005
MR. JOHNSON: Uh-huh.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: As soon as you did the installation
you are in a whole different ball game, you're under Section 489 of
Florida State Statutes and Collier County codes, which you have to
have competency.
If the other contractor that you hired to do the installation had
had a license, you still would have been in violation. Had you had a
license and you hired an unlicensed installer, you would have been in
violation of aiding and abetting an unlicensed contractor.
My opinion is, I mean, I'm sitting here, it's cut and dry.
MR. JOHNSON: And I'm not disagreeing with that at all. I
mean, what was done was right. I mean, after we found the law and
actually went through it I agree with you 100 percent.
The problem that I ran into on this was that when we came to the
county and we asked what was necessary, what was needed for us to
do business here in Collier County, we were not told that we needed
this, we were told just the opposite. We explained our business, we
explained exactly what we were doing on three occasions, and on
three occasions we were told that all we needed was the occupational
license and that was all.
And maybe it's a training issue, maybe somebody down there
should have said, Oh, by the way, maybe you need to check with
another office. But when you are going through a start-up like this and
you have all of the other entities, everybody else you are dealing with,
when the county, a representative from the county on three occasions
tells you this is what you need --
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But I'm sitting here looking at your
licenses, this is all well and good that you say shoulda, woulda,
coulda, but you said a retail sale.
MR. JOHNSON: Which is what we do.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's not -- you didn't do a retail sale,
you did an installation. Retail sale is showroom out the door. You
Page 26
April 20, 2005
went out and installed something.
MR. JOHNSON: Okay.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So they did advise you correctly. You
said, I am a retail sales storefront operation. And if that's what, only
thing you did, the occupational license would have been satisfactory.
But you went to a home and did an installation. Different ball game.
MS. KELLER: Well, it all started with their contract as well, I
think. I don't know if I'm right or not, but your contract, once you say
that you are installing something and put a price on it in your contract
then you are liable not only for the person who does the installation
but you are yourself a contractor in putting that in your contract.
MR. JOHNSON: Okay.
MS. KELLER: So that's something that's really -- we've seen a
number of cases where people have put things in their contract and
paid the price later because they are liable for the work that is done by
that subcontractor.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And I'm sure the phone call that they
probably got was from another contractor who is properly licensed.
And if I had been a licensed contractor and I knew about you, I would
have called them too.
It -- you know, you didn't, you broke out of retail sales.
MR. JOHNSON: Okay.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any other comments from the board?
MRS. JOHNSON: May I say something? I don't know if I'm out
of order.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You have to come up and state your
name and be sworn in. But you're welcome to.
MRS. JOHNSON: I'm Linda Johnson.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MRS. JOHNSON: We don't do the installation. I understand,
I've heard everything and I agree that the other company was not
licensed.
Page 27
April 20, 2005
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But you contracted for it.
MRS. JOHNSON: We don't say we do the installation in our
contract -- where is that -- it says that we do not.
MS. KELLER: You are including it in the price, you are
charging for it.
MR. NEALE: And if I may. If you would refer to the definition
of contracting in the ordinance and in Florida Statutes, it specifically
says that the attempted sale of contracting services and the negotiation
or bid for a contract on these services constitutes contracting.
You sold contracting services.
MRS. JOHNSON: Then how -- what can you -- how can you
advise us to do this differently so that we're not in violation?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You have to go get a competency
license in that trade.
MR. NEALE: Or --
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Take a business and law test and that
test for that trade.
MR. NEALE: Or the alternative is you sell the people -- you
make a sale of the material only, and then you say, Here is a list of
contractors that we approve to install, you contract directly with them,
to your customers. But if you get in the middle you are contracting.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's what Home Depot does. They
will give you a list of approved contractors but they are not involved
in the contracting, they only sell the material.
MS. KELLER: But I think the important thing to remember is
that when you are involved in the contracting you are liable if there
are problems. So if you come to us and there is a problem we're going
to talk to you not the subcontractor. Even though they are licensed you
are still, because you are pricing it into your bid. So that's something
that I've really learned.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you want to be retail, you can be
retail and you don't need anything more but just sell your countertop
Page 28
April 20, 2005
and give them a list of contractors that you recommend and they go
make their own deal. They had better be licensed or we will a get
another call and he'll go get that contractor like he did Hernandez. But
if you just sell the countertop and when it goes out your door you are
finished with it, then you are fine.
MR. JOHNSON: Okay.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Mr. Bartoe you had a
comment?
MR. BAR TOE: I was going to say they can also, if Mr. Johnson
doesn't want to take the test, get somebody else that has a license to
qualify their business.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes. I hate to ever recommend
someone do that.
MR. BAR TOE: I didn't recommend, I said it's an option they
have.
MR. JOHNSON: But I am taking the test on the 7th.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's a great thing to have.
MR. JOHNSON: Sure.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I mean -- and then you can do this and
you are totally legal. The only thing you need to make sure of when
you do that, and you're going to learn this going through your testing,
is that whoever does the installation has to be on your payroll or be a
licensed contractor in that trade.
MR. JOHNSON: Right.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You cannot subcontract to unlicensed
contractors.
MR. JOHNSON: Okay. All right.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You are going to learn every bit of
that in going through this testing and these prep courses.
MR. NEALE: And the workers' compensation issue.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And the workers' comp -- yes, he has
to be covered by your workers' compensation. Only way you can get
Page 29
April 20, 2005
around that is you give him 10 percent of your business and you only
hire one more person. It's you, your wife and him. I don't think you
want to do that.
MR. JOHNSON: I don't want to do that.
MR. NEALE: Just one point for the board is that--
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I have to do one.
MR. NEALE: Yes, you have to make a finding and the board
has to assess a penalty.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Anybody else have any other
questions, comments? I kind of -- I apologize, I kind of dominated that
one. But I've seen it before and it was absolutely correct what you did,
or what the county did.
MS. KELLER: I think, I mean, he probably saved you a lot more
than $300. If you had had a problem and came in here maybe you
would have been taking more risk than you thought you were taking.
MR. JOHNSON: That's probably true.
MRS. JOHNSON: Could you review the workmen's compo
comment you made at the end?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes. If -- you have to have workers'
compo for anyone that is on your payroll.
MR. NEALE: If you're a contractor.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Or else you do an independent
contractor, which is maximum of three people, you have to be a
corporation and each person has to own 10 percent of the business. No
more than three. You don't want to go that route. Those are being
phased out in the State of Florida anyway. So you hire someone, he
has to be covered by workers' compo
MRS. JOHNSON: Right.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Being a new company in the State of
Florida, that will cost you $50,000 or more, which you are not going
to do. So the only way you can get around that is go to a payroll
servIcIng company --
Page 30
April 20, 2005
MRS. JOHNSON: Yes, leasing company.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- and get on with them, because
workers' compo is so hard to find in the State of Florida. They don't
want new companies and they don't want companies with one or two
employees. You are not profitable.
MRS. JOHNSON: Right. But you had mentioned for workers'
compo we don't need -- we wouldn't get it, but the employees need it if
you have four or more employees. But I know we would go to a
leasing company if we had that many employees.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No, you have to have it if you have
one employee.
MR. LEWIS: Contractor's licensing laws for workers'
compensation are different than retail.
MR. JOHNSON: Okay.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: For the board I've got to do a
complete findings of fact here. So what I need first of all is a motion to
sustain the citation or to revoke it. Got one. I just need a motion. What
are we going to do?
MR. LEWIS: MR. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes.
MR. LEWIS: I move that we sustain the motion -- or sustain the
citation as issued, No. 2181.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Do I have a second?
MR. BESWICK: I second it.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor.
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BESWICK: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MS. KELLER: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE: Aye.
Page 3 1
April 20, 2005
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
Okay. First, what I need to read is the order on the citation.
Collier County Commissioners, Collier County, Florida versus
Gregory Allen Johnson, Citation No. 2181. This cause came on for
publish hearing before the board on April 20th, 2005 pursuant to the
provisions of Collier County ordinance 90-105, as amended, and
Section 489.127 Florida Statutes -- you are going to learn all of those
-- regarding citations issued for violations of Section 489.1271 --
correct me here, Mr. Neale, if my numbers are off -- and/or
489 .132( 1) Florida Statutes, as adopted by Collier County, Florida.
Citation being in proper form and substance.
All necessary notices having been issued to the respondent as
required by Collier County ordinance and Florida statutes.
The board having heard testimony under oath, received
evidence, heard arguments with respect to all appropriate and relevant
matters as provided in Collier County ordinance 90-105, as amended,
and in Sections 162.03(2), 162.07 and 162.08 Florida Statutes.
The board finds as follows: The respondent is not the holder of a
valid certificate of the competency issued by Collier County or one
certified or registered by the State of Florida. And the citation is valid.
Do I need to do conclusions of law? Can I skip
that? You say yea?
MR. NEALE: Yes, you need to do them, yes.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Respondent has requested an
administrative hearing in a timely manner and was entitled to such
hearing before the board.
Number two, the respondent is in violation of Collier County
Ordinance No. 90-105, as amended, and charged, and Citation 2181,
to wit: Engaging in a business or acting in the capacity of a contractor
or advertise self or business organization as available to engage in the
business or act in the capacity of a contractor without being duly
registered or certified.
Page 32
April 20, 2005
Now, second phase, I need from Mr. Neale to tell you what the
second phase involves.
MR. NEALE: Okay. The second phase of this, the board needs
to determine what the penalty is to be assessed pursuant to Florida
Statutes. The board may order the violator to pay a civil penalty of not
less than the amount set forth in the citation but not more than $1,000
per day for each violation.
In determining the amount of this penalty, the board shall
consider three factors. First, the gravity of the violation. Second, any
actions taken by the violator to correct the violation. And third, any
previous violations committed by the violator.
MR. BLUM: Can I ask a question?
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes.
MR. BLUM: The customer, does the customer have any
problem with the work?
MR. HOOPINGARNER: No, sir. In fact, he said the work was
great. He is satisfied with it and has no problem with the installation or
the Johnson's.
MR. BLUM: Okay. It sounds to me like an innocent mistake,
albeit an accurate one. I would recommend that the minimum fine be
imposed.
MR. LEWIS: MR. Hoopingarner, are there any other complaints
at this time registered against this company?
MR. HOOPINGARNER: No sir, there is not, and there has not
been any other citations issued by this department.
MR. LEWIS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Was that a motion?
MR. BLUM: Yes, it was a motion.
MS. KELLER: Second, Keller.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Motion that the citation remain at
$300 as originally imposed. Any discussion?
All those in favor.
Page 33
April 20, 2005
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BESWICK: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MS. KELLER: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Findings of fact. The respondent did
that. A lot paperwork here.
In determining the amount of the administrative penalty to
impose by the board, the order of the board, it has been considered the
gravity of the violation, the action taken by the violator to correct the
violation plus any previous violations committed by the violator. And
upon consideration of these factors and the relevant evidence to the
board, the board hereby orders the imposition of the original $300 fine
to remain.
So done, so ordered, so completed. Sorry.
MR. JOHNSON: Okay.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's kind of like what Mark Twain
said, education is expensive no matter how you get it. It sounds like
you did a great job and you'll do well but --
MR. JOHNSON: Okay.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you'll fly through those tests.
MR. JOHNSON: All right. Well, thank you very much, and I do
appreciate the time.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We wish you well and we appreciate
you coming before the board.
MR. JOHNSON: Okay.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Always a pleasure.
Page 34
April 20, 2005
MR. JOHNSON: Interesting experience.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Thank you.
MR. JOHNSON: Okay.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: There is -- public hearings, we're
done. Reports, I just want to -- I have some, something under reports
for the board. I was sent a letter by Roetzel & Andress law firm,
particularly Robert D. Prince. I'll read it to the board. This goes back
to the dock issues. Of course, he represents Naples Dock and Marine
Services.
Dear Chairman Dixon. This firm represents the above captioned
contracting company. The purpose of this letter is to formally request
a reinterpretation concerning the interpretation contained in building
blocks, which is the building department, building development,
revised A-71 effective November 1, 2004, a copy of which is hereto
attached.
I'll explain that in just a minute.
Revision A-71 is an interpretation dated 10/27/04, effective on
November 1, '04, concerning the definition of work requiring or not
requiring longshore and harbor workers' compensation coverage
insurance in order to obtain a permit in Collier County.
It is the position of our client that this interpretation is contrary
to the Longshore and Harbor Workers' Compensation Act -- legal
definitions here -- and the regulation and case law thereof.
Weare of the interpretation that contained in building blocks
prior to the revision is the correct interpretation -- so they don't want
the revision, they want what was before. We have researched the
issue, have also been in contact with the U.S. Department of Labor
office in Jacksonville for confirmation of the correct interpretation.
Then he's going to give me case law, which I won't read for you.
Therefore, we respectively (sic) request that the county abandon
the interpretation as contained in this revision dated 10/27/04,
effective November 1, '04, and officially restore the interpretation
Page 35
April 20, 2005
contained in the previous interpretation.
We request that this be corrected administratively or publicly
noticed for a board meeting and that the undersigned be notified and
given an opportunity to appear.
First, let me explain to you the revision, which was done by the
director of the building department, correct me if I'm wrong, Mr.
Bartoe.
MR. BARTO E: You are correct.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. And my understanding is the
way it's stated in building blocks, is that any subcontractor trade who
works on an existing dock does not have to have longshoreman
insurance; is that correct?
MR. BAR TOE: I don't have the wording in front of me.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I don't either, but in a nutshell, is that
MR. BAR TOE: I believe in a nutshell that is correct.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It does not apply to new docks; is that
correct?
MR. BAR TOE: That I do not know.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Well, basically we had nothing
to do with this nor do I want to get started in this all over again. It
doesn't come before us. It was an action of the director of Collier
County Development Services, and that is where they need to go, not
before this licensing board.
MR. BAR TOE: And that letter has been provided to the director.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: MR. Neale.
MR. NEALE: I totally concur with you, MR. Dickson. This
board has no jurisdiction over that nor any authority to issue
interpretations of the code. You know, the outlines of what this board
can do are pretty clear in the ordinance. And for this board to get into
the midst of an administrative interpretation I think is inappropriate.
So, I agree with your interpretation that this is to be taken up
Page 36
April 20, 2005
with the administrator and his superiors and then with the Board of
County Commissioners if they don't receive satisfaction there.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Zachary, do you agree?
MR. ZACHARY: I agree. I have been in contact with Mr. Prince
and this is -- I've been looking into who is the author of that particular
building blocks, because there was a draft that was circulated that I
agree with, so -- but it's not something for this board to look into.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So we can take that as a directive for
the personnel at contractor licensing that if they come to them and
want to come before this board on this issue that they are not to come
before this board on this issue.
MR. NEALE: No.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay.
MR. BARTOE: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I don't want to start this again, okay,
it's not our baby.
MR. BAR TOE: I don't want to start it.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I don't know why they keep coming
back to us but it's not our baby.
Any other comments?
Next meeting, when is it?
MR. BAR TOE: May 16th. In June you can take a vacation. The
scheduled June date, the room is being used.
MR. NEALE: If I may, and this is a nitpicking point,
Wednesday is the 18th.
MR. BAR TOE: I just read what Maggie put down, I'll have to
talk to her about that.
MR. NEALE: I read the 16th and I looked at the calendar and it's
the 18th.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Which date are you talking about?
MR. NEALE: Next month. Wednesday is actually the 18th not
the 16th.
Page 37
April 20, 2005
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Well, I'm looking at mine here
and it -- okay, 16th, gotcha. May 16th.
MR. NEALE: Eighteenth, it's actually the 18th. It says 16th, it's
actually the 18th.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Maggie was right to start with.
MR. NEALE: No, Maggie was wrong.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: This sheet here was May 18th. But
Maggie --
MR. NEALE: She was right in the first place.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: She does that at the beginning of each
year to give us all the dates. So the 18th was correct. Okay.
Any other discussion?
Need a motion.
MR. LEWIS: Motion to adjourn.
MR. BLUM: Second.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor.
MR. LEWIS: Aye.
MR. BESWICK: Aye.
MR. BLUM: Aye.
MS. KELLER: Aye.
MR. HORN: Aye.
MR. BOYD: Aye.
MR. GUITE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye.
Can you believe we did all that in an hour?
Page 38
April 20, 2005
******
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 10:07 a.m.
COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTOR
LICENSING BOARD
LES DICKSON, CHAIRMAN
Transcript prepared on behalf of Gregory Court Reporting Service,
Inc., by Elizabeth Brooks, RPR.
Page 39