EAC Minutes 04/06/2005 R
April 6, 2005
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE COLLIER
COUNTY ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL
Naples, Florida, April 6, 2005
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Environmental
Advisory Council in and for the County of Collier, having conducted
business herein, met on this date at 9:00 AM in REGULAR SESSION in
Building "F of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the
following members present:
CHAIRMAN:
Alfred F. Gal
Ken Humiston
William Hughes
Michael Sorrell
Judith Hushon
Erica Lynne, Ph.D
Lee Horn
Irv Kraut
ALSO PRESENT: Marjorie Student, Assistant County Attorney
Stan Chrzanowski, Engineering Services
Barbara Burgeson, Environmental Specialist
Susan Mason, Senior Environmental Specialist
1
ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL
AGENDA
April 6, 2005
9:00 A.M.
Commission Boardroom
W. Harmon Turner Building (Building "F") - Third Floor
I. Call to Order
II. Roll Call
III. Approval of Agenda
IV. Approval of March 2, 2005 Meeting minutes
V. land Use Petitions
A. Planned Unit Development No. PUDZ-2004-AR-6192
"The Cook Property PUD"
Section 9, Township 50 South, Range 26 East
B. Planned Unit Development No. PUDZ-2004-AR-6258
"Palermo Cove RPUD"
Section 34, Township 48 South, Range 26 East
VI. Old Business
A. lDC Amendments
VII. New Business
A. Oustanding Advisory Committee Member Nominations
VIII. Council Member Comments
IX. Public Comments
X. Adjournment
********************************************************************************************************
Council Members: Please notify the Environmental Services Department Administrative
Assistant no later than 5:00 p.m. on March 30. 2005 if yOU cannot attend this meetina or if
yOU have a conflict and will abstain from votina on a petition (403-2424).
General Public: Any person who decides to appeal a decision of this Board will need a record of
the proceedings pertaining thereto; and therefore may need to ensure that a verbatim record of
proceedings is made, which record includes the testimony and evidence upon which the appeal
is to be based.
April 6, 2005
I. Meeting was called to order by Chairman Alfred F. Gal at 9:00 AM.
II. Roll Call
Roll Call was taken - a quorum was established.
II. Approval of Agenda:
The Listed Species update will be done after the LDC Amendment under Old Business.
Agenda was approved 8-0.
III. Approval of March 2, 2005 Meeting Minutes:
Ms. Hushon had several corrections to mistyped words and will turn the changes in.
Mr. Hughes made a request that the chemical analysis from the dredging be put into
public record; this was not in the minutes.
Ms. Lynne wanted to emphasize the importance of Barbara Burgeson's presence at the
meetings; please add this to the minutes. She wants the county to recognize that this is
crucial in order for the EAC to function properly.
Mr. Horn made a motion to approve the minutes.
March 2, 2005 Meeting Minutes were approved 8-0.
IV. Land Use Petitions:
A. Planned Unit Development No. PUDZ-2004-AR-6192
"The Cook Property PUD"
Section 9, Township 50 South, Range 26 East
No Disclosures.
Chris Hagan of Johnson Engineering presented information regarding the project via a
media presentation.
This project is located at the old drive-in and driving range on Davis Boulevard, just east
of Santa Barbara Boulevard. It will be for four units per acre.
Mr. Kraut asked about which percentage is currently being utilized.
Mr. Hagan advised that approximately 30 acres are currently under use.
Mr. Gal confirmed that the staff report states that they will be impacting about 7.5 acres
of wetland and asked if there will be any mitigation.
2
April 6, 2005
Mr. Hagan advised that they will be looking to do offsite mitigation as well as onsite
enhancement.
Ms. Hushon noted that would be required anyway.
Mr. Hughes asked about pad elevations.
Mr. Hagan noted that this is part of the Lely Stormwater Improvement Basin and they
will have to raise the elevation of the house pads as well manage the wetlands. Mr.
Hagan further explained that during a storm event the water will be directed into the lakes
for treatment and then discharged into the wetlands and then to the flo-way.
Mr. Chrzanowski explained that the surface water flow is fixed by the Lely Stormwater
permi t.
Ms. Lynne moves to approve with the staff stipulations. Mr. Kraut seconds. Motion
Carries 8-0.
B. Planned Unit Development No. PUDZ-2004-AR-6258
"Palermo Cove PUD"
Section 34, Township 48 South, Range 26 East
No Disclosures.
Dwight Nadeau presented a summary of the project to the committee in a visual
presentation.
This project is on the west side of Collier Boulevard about Y:z mile north of the
intersection with Vanderbilt Beach Road.
38 acres of the project will be saved as preserve as part of a flo-way, this is created in
conjunction with Summit Place. There are 131 acres in the property. They are
requesting 4 dwelling units per acre. Water and sewer services will be looped and
included with county services. There will be shared buffering and commingling
preserves among neighboring projects. There has been significant progress with the
Water Management District. In addition to the 38 acre preserve there will be
approximately 35 mitigation credits.
Ms. Lynne: Where is the flo-way?
Mr. Nadeau indicates where the flo-way is on the visual presentation.
Ms. Hushon asks if the ditch used for the flo-way (near the DiVosta project) is sufficient
and is concerned about the canal handling the flow for both projects.
3
April 6, 2005
Mr. Nadeau advises that the professional engineer indicated that this has been analyzed
and determined to be sufficient.
Ms. Hushon advises that not only is exotic removal important but exotic management is
crucial.
Mr. Nadeau: I will be using supplemental plantings in the area.
Ken Pasarella: You are correct that there is a high infestation of malaleuca on the
property. Weare going to physically remove it and replant all of those areas with native
vegetation which will minimize the re-infestation of Mala leu ca. We will continue to
monitor and remove any re-infestation in the future.
Ms. Lynne asks how this process is monitored.
Ms. Mason advises that there is a PUD monitoring process.
Mr. Kraut asks about the anticipated population at build-out.
Mr. Nadeau: About 700 people.
Mr. Kraut asks about the Collier Boulevard extension.
Mr. Nadeau advises that the Collier Boulevard extension will be complete in 2007 and
they should reach build out in that year. The Vanderbilt Beach Road expansion will be
complete by that time also. There will be a light at Collier Boulevard and Wolfe Road.
Mr. Hughes: So your flo-way will remain in an organic form prior to discharge.
Mr. Passarella: The fertilizers that are used will first be directed in the storm water
management system in the development and then discharged into the flo-way. The South
Florida Management District requires that the water is treated before it is discharged.
Ms. Hushon asks about the aeration of the ponds.
Mr. Passarella: There are no fountains.
Ms. Hushon: There doesn't have to be fountains; aeration does not mean fountains.
Mr. Passarella: There are no bubblers proposed. Weare relying on the organic living
materials to take care of the treatment. I'm not the storm water management specialist. I
cannot tell you about retention times but it will be treated in the lake before being
discharged into the flo-way and treatment will continue in the flo-way by the interaction
of the materials.
4
April 6, 2005
Mr. Hughes: The word treatment is very overstated here. We are allowing nature to do
the treatment.
Mr. Nadeau: There is 50% more treatment required on our project site than the others.
Our discharge rate will provide sufficient treatment.
Mr. Hughes: One of my concerns county wide is the nitrogen runoff from all of the
developments seriously impact our sanctuaries.
Mr. Chrzanowski: That is currently under review with the water management district. I
have been going to a series of workshops. The more organic material you run it through
before it discharges, the more it binds up, but after a certain point it clogs up.
Mr. Lorenz: This is somewhat of a new requirement; within the £IS we are requiring an
acceptable methodology for post-development water quality versus pre-development.
Within your EIS document there was a Harvey Harper requirement. It is my
understanding that post-development pollutant loadings would be less than pre-
development pollutant loadings. The issue of monitoring is difficult because you need
some type of action. If you do not have an adequate trigger for an adverse affect on
water quality, the monitoring is for nothing. That is why we require the post-
development analysis.
Mr. Hughes: We have an overall situation that is serious with nitrogen running off into
our lands and estuaries. Weare aware of this problem. There has to be some type of
management for these sites. We have never heard a legal definition of in perpetuity.
Ms. Student: When there is no definition of in perpetuity you have to look to the
dictionary for the meaning but, to me, it means eternity.
Mr. Chrzanowski: I would like to get a plug in for 100 square miles of Golden Gate
Estates that has absolutely no control on it at all. That makes this seem insignificant.
Mr. Hughes: Personally, I would like to see the whole thing plumbed and there would
be no impact. This is so large as to our future welfare. I know Bill's department and Joe
Schmitt's department are doing everything they can.
Mr. Lorenz: I'm not suggesting that we should have post water quality monitoring from
a county perspective. My point is that if we are to recommend monitoring we also need
to recommend what a trigger will be if you get to some particular actions level and what
steps will have to be taken.
Mr. Chrzanowski: There will be an analysis after construction but there is no baseline
established from before.
5
April 6, 2005
Mr. Hughes: At least this is a start. We should start looking to alternatives to the heavy
irrigation. Dry is great; brown is in and the more green we push the more we are
poisoning ourselves.
Mr. Chrzanowski: I've often said that grass is the worst thing you can grow in Collier
County; it's an exotic.
Ms. Hushon advises that the street overlay in Exhibit A is outdated and needs to be
updated.
Mr. Humiston moves to recommend approval; Mr. Hughes seconds. Motion carries
8-0.
V. Old Business
Ms. Hushon indicates that there are data sheets included in the packets are insufficient
and does indicate sample points from the Haldemen Creek dredging. There is no key and
the information is not clear. There needs to be more characterization of the data.
Ms. Burgeson: That is the follow up information from the last meeting. We can have
someone come in and present that to you at the next meeting.
A. LDC Amendments
Ms. Burgeson: We have a couple of changes that are in those packets. There are two
items that have been withdrawn. The other items that were sent to you include the
modified CCSL and the sea turtle amendment which was directed by the BCC for staff to
modify to remove the prohibition to sea turtle areas to do emergency repair to sea turtle
walkovers. We have re-presented this to the Development Services Advisory Committee
and they have accepted these changes.
3.040.2 B4 - The paragraph that starts "the sands may be required to stay in place." We
want to make sure that it's not obligatory and it meets the required conditions. We didn't
want this to amend anything that has already been approved.
Mr. Humiston: I had expressed concern over the restrictive nature of this. In paragraph
5 D it says permitting shall not be permitted during sea turtle nesting season. You should
not expect the prohibitions or exceptions to be only during sea turtle nesting season.
Ms. Burgeson: These are prohibitions just during sea turtle nesting season. Outside of
sea turtle nesting season the prohibition does not exist at all.
Mr. Chrzanowski: There are three amendments. One is for land development code 326
and LDC 4, 107-108 and LDC 1052. They're related in a certain way. Years ago we
gave permission to developments to clear 25 acres of house lots to store excess fill onsite.
With the economy change projects are pre-selling and people are buying the lots well
6
April 6, 2005
ahead of time. The developers know the details of their plans well ahead of time and
present much more detailed site plans due to additional requirements. It is getting very
inefficient for these people to dig and haul fill. We have looked at the building rates and
have determined that 200 acres is sufficient to clear and fill when there are presales in
place. The amendment to 326 allows for clearing when an environmental inspection is
complete. We have had projects that are held up for a small detail. We see no reason not
to let him clear as long as he has completed his environmental and water management
reVIew.
Mr. Gal: Are you giving pennission for them to start work before we review it?
Mr. Chrzanowski: No, it has been through you many times.
Ms. Burgeson: We will not approve an early work authorization prior to the EAC
review if an EIS is requirement. There will not be a situation where early work is
approved before your review.
Ms. Hushon: There is an issue with digging the lakes and the silt runoff.
Mr. Chrzanowski: The lakes are there to hold the silt. We prefer that the lakes are there
to retain the silt prior to build out.
Mr. Gal: I was thinking of a specific project where the staffhad approved and the EAC
rejected it. I didn't want to get into a situation where they get an early work authorization
without getting approval from us.
Ms. Burgeson: The EAC would approve the areas that would be required to be set aside
for preservation in all cases. It states that we need to have all final state and federal
agency permits. We are assured that all permits have been issued and all county staffhas
done their review prior to an early work authorization being issued. The risk is outside of
the environmentally sensitive areas and outside of the buffers. It wouldn't be an area that
we have preserved in the final assessment. We are looking at projects that are moving
fairly quickly. Where you have a project that takes longer there may be an issue with the
neighbors seeing the cleared area.
Mr. Hughes: Nothing starts until the planning commission approves, correct?
Ms. Burgeson: If a project does not require approval from the planning commission it
will not go before the planning commission and will just have an administrative review.
If a project requires additional reviews, they will be completed before any approval is
granted.
Ms. Hushon: 200 acres sounds like a lot to me.
Mr. Chrzanowski: Island Walk is 600 acres. We do require a schedule. It's nothing for
someone to say they will build it out in a year.
7
April 6, 2005
Mr. Hughes: My concern is if we approve the early clearing and then the project is held
up for some other infrastructure issue, a project is held up.
Mr. Chrzanowski: From our point of view we rather have a project done as fast as
possible. The neighbors prefer that as well. If any fill is stockpiled for more than
eighteen months it will be required to be put back into place and re-vegetated. We do
require a re-vegetation bond.
Ms. Lynne: You indicated that the reason this is going to work is because of the pre-
sales. Is that a condition?
Mr. Chrzanowski: No, that is not a requirement, but the economy could also change, in
which case the pre-sales may not mean anything.
Ms. Burgeson: The purpose of this is two fold. The one for the early work is so that
people can start the clearing process. The second is to allow for them to clear and fill that
larger area so that they can prep that 100 acres and stock pile on another. If you didn't
change the numbers they could still do the early work but they couldn't prep the larger
area. It also allows for some fill to be brought in from another site as well, 100 acres of
lot prep fill coming in from another site. This is a request from the development
community because of the price of materials. They want to prep these lots and get them
built as quickly as possible.
Mr. Gal: Could they finish all their infrastructure work and still not have their SDP
approval?
Ms. Burgeson: Right now, yes, but if approval is not given within 30 days ofthe work
starting they have to stop work.
Mr. Gal: Is there a chance that they could get permission to do early work but not get
approval on the SDP?
Ms. Burgeson: There is a chance but we require that they have all the agency permits
prior to approval for early work. Should the SDP not be approved, the property owner
will be required to re-vegetate the site. The chances are so slim that they will not get
their final SDP, they may have to amend it, but it should be approved.
Mr. Gal: My other concern is a builder expecting approval because of an early work
authorization.
Mr. Chrzanowski: Before the approval for early work we have looked at all plans and
all permits have to be issued. The small issues that hold up a project are for things like
landscaping and fire reviews. They are not issues that kill a project. If a project is not
going to be approved we know about it well ahead of time.
Mr. Hughes: Worst case scenario, if they fail, they have to re-vegetate.
8
April 6, 2005
Mr. Chrzanowski: Yes, and we have them bond everything to guarantee the money is
there to do the re-vegetation.
Ms. Burgeson: The early work authorization only applies to SDPs and PPLs.
Mr. Gal: It seems like a PUD would be included in that as part of a development order.
Ms. Student: I think that it should be clarified there because a PUD could be part of a
development order.
Mr. Chrzanowski: I'll put in exclusion for PUDs.
Ms. Burgeson: Actually the language would prohibit the early clearing; it would not
prohibit the other early work. I can take this language out of the clearing section and put
that into the early work. And that will indicate that the early clearing will be allowed as
part of the final review of the SDP and PPL. I think that was a good catch on your part.
Ms. Hushon: When you talk of the 100 acres, it is part of the total 200 acres, correct?
Ms. Burgeson: Yes, that is correct.
Mr. Gal: Wouldn't it be better to try to issue the final order sooner than to allow early
work?
Mr. Chrzanowski: You have gone through the required permitting and reviews and are
held up for something minor that will not kill the project. We want to be able to allow
them to clear if something small is holding it up. If you ask for special permission,
currently, you can clear 25 acres and hold the fill on-site.
Ms. Mason: With commercial buildings you can clear for the building pads.
Ms. Hushon: I'm not really in favor but I could see with lowering the amount that could
be cleared. I don't feel comfortable with 200 acres, I feel more comfortable with 100
acres.
Mr. Hughes: Where did the 200 acres come from?
Mr. Chrzanowski: That is based on past projects.
Mr. Hughes: So we can cut this in half.
Mr. Chrzanowski: Right now they come in for 25 acres at a time and they come in
three or four times in a row. So we can have them come in twice if they need 200.
Ms. Burgeson: The amount you are approving is the amount that staff can
administratively approve. They can still go before the BCC to request additional acres.
9
April 6, 2005
Through that the developer is required to provide a schedule for construction. This
acreage is not site acreage this is the acreage of the lots.
Mr. Chrzanowski: Like I said, they come in successively for the 25 acres.
Mr. Hughes: I think its too much land.
Mr. Gal: I'm not sure I fully comprehend what could occur.
Mr. Chrzanowski: The worst case scenario is that the developer goes bankrupt and we
use the re-vegetation bond.
Ms. Lynne: Amending the land development code takes a lot of staff time and we hear
that the staff doesn't even have enough time to enforce the code as it is.
Mr. Chrzanowski: We spend a lot of time on these pre-clearing permits and preparing
executive summaries for developers that want more than 25 acres. It would save a lot of
time if I could administratively approve additional acres.
Ms. Lynne: I'm sure your job would be easier if you could administratively approve a
lot of things. I just want to see a proper allocation of county resources.
Mr. Gal: I support this change.
Ms. Hushon: I would like to see the acreage cut in half.
Ms. Burgeson: Before you make a motion and vote on this I would like to note the
changes that you have discussed. One item is to tighten up that language in the first
paragraph so that it only allows for the final development orders. PUDs will be excluded.
Requiring that it will be final SDPs or final construction plans will require that it has
already gone through the other processes. We will add the bond requirement. We will
also include a requirement for the development schedule to provide for an eighteen
month build out. We will add that all underlying approvals will be complete prior to an
early work authorization. Finally, we can identify when you may want a stop of work.
Mr. Gal: My concern is that by allowing them to begin work you are doing a de-facto
approval of the SDP.
Mr. Chrzanowski: By the time they get all of the approvals, they are spending so much
money that they are serious about the project.
Mr. Gal: By allowing them to begin work and start spending money they will argue that
the county cannot deny their SDPs. A legal argument could be made.
Mr. Hughes: I say cut it in half. Most ofthese projects are well below this amount.
10
April 6, 2005
Ms. Student: I think proceed at your own risk language would be appropriate because
we don't want to hear that anyone was vested. There's always an issue in vesting where
you cannot draw a bright line. The courts will look at each situation individually.
Mr. Chrzanowski: We already have an early work authorization procedure and the
authorization letter can include a proceed at your own risk provision as well as the bond
requirement. As far as the acreage, you can forward your recommendation to the board
and I will go to Joe Schmitt and see if he wants to cut it down. It's still four times the
amount that it was before.
Mr. Hughes: With all that I would make a motion to approve with the 100 and 50 acres,
as opposed to 200 and 100 acres.
Mr. Gal: I think there is some major re-write to the ordinance and I think it should come
before the board again.
Ms. Burgeson: When we make the changes we will e-mail and send it out to all of the
EAC members. There is opportunity to re-write it and bring it back to you in May.
Mr. Hughes: I withdraw my motion.
Mr. Humiston moves to request that staff brings back the amended ordinance with
all discussed changes; Mr. Hughes seconds. Motion carries 8-0.
Ms. Hushon moves to approve 3.04.02 B4 as discussed. Mr. Hughes seconds.
Motion carries 8-0.
A. Listed Species
Mr. Lorenz: We had a workshop with the BCC on February 15th. They directed
amendment to the policy 7.1.2. That policy had some inconsistencies within it. We had
prepared an amendment to the growth management plan. The board chose not to make
those changes. The board stated that our language was fairly workable and would be a
good starting point for the next amendment cycle. That is the language that we will bring
back through the cycle. The second issue is the habitat conservation planning process.
We would look at listed species on a county level and develop criteria for certain species.
This would have to be presented to the BCC and then go through the federal process. We
recommended that we have a formal advisory committee that would take that task. The
board accepted that direction and specified that the listed species would be limited to red-
cockaded woodpeckers and that we establish that ad-hoc committee at a future board
meeting and report back at the end of the summer. The BCC will then decide ifthey
want to proceed. If they decide they want to proceed, it will already be included in the
budget process. The BCC will include the ad-hoc committee discussion in their April
1 ih meeting.
11
April 6, 2005
Ms. Hushon: We have a chance to be leaders in this effort to other counties as we often
are. I think the science coming from fish and wildlife has been shown to be sufficiently
flawed.
Mr. Sorrell: Fish and wildlife have no idea how many panthers or Red-Cockaded
Woodpeckers are out there. They aren't even tracking the Gopher Tortoises.
Ms. Lynne: I am concerned about the science also. A letter was distributed by Mimi
Wolok that the science needs to be acceptable. Also we need references for all ofthe
facts provided. We need real information published in journals.
Mr. Lorenz: The challenge for the committee will be to determine ifthere is sufficient
data. There will be another committee to follow through on the recommendations of the
ad-hoc committee.
A lengthy discussion occurred regarding the challenge of determining a source of reliable
information in this process. In addition, mitigation opportunities are not sufficient and do
not necessarily compensate for the taking of a member of a listed species. There is a
need for unbiased research organizations to provide the needed data.
Mr. Lorenz: I am not asking for any action today. Ijust wanted to update you on the
progress
VI. New Business
Ms. Hushon presented information on the Ave Maria project approval to begin
construction. A newspaper article was quoted. "Knowing the immensity of the project
and the application that had to be made and the complexity of the environmental issues, I
can only say that we are extremely gratified that this hurdle has finally been overcome."
I just want to point out that nothing from Ave Maria has come before this committee. I
know portions of this proj ect are wetland and panther habitat.
Mr. Lorenz: For the Stewardship Receiving Area there is a Resolution; it is very
specifically written that it doesn't come before the EAC for review.
Ms. Hushon: I really would like all of you to look into this to see if we are able to look
at any portion of this development.
Ms. Mason: My understanding is that it is a DR! as well as a SRA and it is a PUD
process.
Mr. Lorenz: I understand that a DRI comes before the EAC. The SRA does not require
an EIS. The environmental assessment will come before this body with a DR!.
12
April 6, 2005
Ms. Mason: They did get a preliminary development agreement and that is for a smaller,
more central area.
Mr. Lorenz: This whole process is governed by the Rural Lands Stewardship Overlay
which has its own standards and process. Staff may want to look at if the EAC can
request a review. It's my understanding that the DRI does require an EAC review.
A. Outstanding Advisory Committee Member Nominations
Mr. Hughes: I wanted to make a formal nomination of Alfred Gal for Outstanding
Advisory Committee Member.
Ms. Lynne seconds.
Motion carries 7-0. (Mr. Gal abstained)
VII. Council Member Comments
Mr. Sorrell: Several things came up today. We can make recommendations but it
seems that no one follows up on them. The Gopher Tortoises are not being tracked. The
discharged water is not being checked. We just received these chemical analyses sheets
that do not show where the samples come from. Where does our work make a
difference? It would be easier on us if we had more reliable information and began
tracking things.
Ms. Lynne: We work very hard getting laws in place but we don't check ifit's being
followed up on.
Mr. Lorenz: Your recommendations go directly to the BCC. If you want to provide a
recommendation that is going to require a lot of resources or policy direction you need to
be able to put together a report for the BCC. You may want to consider establishing
some sub-committees to develop recommendations for the BCC. You would have to
meet the sunshine requirements of the sub-committee just like this group. You can
establish some topics that you are concerned about. Maybe set aside an annual date to
review those topics. Certainly staff will be willing to help you with those projects.
Mr. Hughes: We haven't produced a board report for a number of years. That's up to us
to produce that. I would suggest that individually we make a list of topics to address so
that in a public forum we can discuss it and become pro-active as opposed to reactive. I
think over the next few months we should have this as part of the meeting.
VIII. Public Comments
IX. Adjournment
Ms. Hushon moves to adjourn meeting. Mr. Hughes seconds.
13
April 6, 2005
*****
There being no further business for the good ofthe County, the meeting was
adjourned at 12:05 P.M.
COLLIER COUNTY ENVIRONMENTAL
ADVISORY COUNCIL
Chairman Alfred Gal
14