CEB Minutes 01/27/2005 R
January 27, 2005
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
COLLIER COUNTY CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD
Naples, Florida, January 27, 2005
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Code Enforcement Board
in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein,
met on this date at 9:30 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F"
of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following
members present:
CHAIRMAN: Clifford Flegal
Sheri Barnett
Raymond Bowie
Albert Doria, Jr. (Absent)
Roberta Dusek
Nicolas Hemes
Richard Kraenbring
Gerald Lefebvre
George Ponte
ALSO PRESENT: Jean Rawson, Attorney for the Board
Michelle Arnold, Code Enforcement Director
Jennifer Belpedio, Assistant County Attorney
Leonardo Bonanno, Code Enforcement Coordinator
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CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD OF COLLIER COUNTY. FLORIDA
AGENDA
Date: January 27, 2005 at 9:30 a.m.
Location: 3301 E. Tamiami Tr., Naples, Florida, Collier County Government Center,
Administrative Bldg, 3rd Floor
NOTE: ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE
PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE
PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS
TO BE BASED. NEITHER COLLIER COUNTY NOR THE CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD SHALL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR
PROVIDING THIS RECORD.
1. ROLL CALL
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - November 29, 2004
4. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. MOTIONS
1. Motion to Continue
1.
BCC vs. Martha Lee Johnson
CEB NO. 2004-077
1.
2. Motion/Request for Extension of Time
BCC vs. Robert G France
B. HEARINGS
1. CASE NO:
CASE ADDR:
OWNER:
INSPECTOR:
VIOLATIONS:
2. CASE NO:
CASE ADDR:
OWNER:
INSPECTOR:
VIOLA TIONS:
---~-'
CEB NO. 2004-001
2004-074
905 ALACHUA STREET, IMMOKALEE, FL
HECKMAN, KEITH
JOHN MARSH
Ord. No. 91-102, as amended, the Collier County Land Development Code, secs 1.5.6 and
2.7.6
Illegal outside storage of, but not limited to, disabled vehicle, vehicle parts, mobile home
and tractor-trailers. Fence erected without building permits.
2004-075
219 2ND STREET S., IMMOKALEE, FL
TAYLOR, RALPH W AND JEAN
JOHN MARSH
Ord. No. 91-102, as amended, the Collier County Land Development Code, sections
2.7.6.1 and 2.7.6.5
Addition to permitted primary structure with electrical, plumbing and air conditioning improvements
without first obtaining the authorization of a Collier County building permit.
~----.._,._-
3. CASE NO:
CASE ADDR:
OWNER:
INSPECTOR:
2004-071
3935 24TH AVE S.E., NAPLES, FL
STORMER, HELEN
JEFF LETOURNEAU
VIOLATIONS: Ord. No. 91-102, as amended, the Collier County Land Development Code, sections
2.7.6.1 and Sec 2.7.6.5
Two guesthouse type structures with electrical, air conditioning and septic improvements
erected/placed without first obtaining authorization of building permits.
4. CASE NO:
CASE ADDR:
OWNER:
INSPECTOR:
2004-081
5750 14TH AVE SW, NAPLES, FL
WHITE, DOUGLAS S.
JEFF LETOURNEAU
VIOLATIONS: Ord. No. 91-102, as amended, the Collier County Land Development Code, sections
2.7.6.1 and Sec 2.7.6.5
Guesthouse/office type structure with electrical, air conditioning and septic improvements,
erected on subject property without first obtaining authorization of building permits.
5. CASE NO:
CASE ADDR:
OWNER:
INSPECTOR:
2004-077
411 JONES STREET, IMMOKALEE, FL
JOHNSON, MARTHA LEE
PHILLIP SALINAS
VIOLATIONS: Ord. No. 91-102, as amended, the Collier County Land Development Code, section 1.5.6
Mobile home structure erected and illegally connected to primary structure utilities and
being utilized for multiple-family residential all inconsistent with zoning district.
6. CASE NO:
CASE ADDR:
OWNER:
INSPECTOR:
2004-078
1421 PEACH ST., IMMOKALEE, FL
BLOCKER, RICHARD
CRISTINA PEREZ
VIOLATIONS: Ord. No. 91-102, as amended, the Collier County Land Development Code, section 2.7.6
and sections 104.1.1, 104.1.3.5, 105.5, 106.1.2 and 106.3.1 of the Florida Building Code, as
adopted by Ord. No. 2002-01
Shed type structure erected and (illegally) connected to utilities without required building permits
and being utilized as a laundry mat with operable washers and dryers in a Village Residential zoning
district.
7. CASE NO:
CASE ADDR:
OWNER:
INSPECTOR:
2004-076
20610 TAMIAMI TRAIL EAST, NAPLES, FL
HAMILTON, JOSEPH
TRAVIS SNODERL Y
VIOLATIONS: Ord. No. 91-102, as amended, the Collier County Land Development Code, section 1.5.6
Wind Dancer Airboat Tours Pole Sign erected without required building permits
6. NEW BUSINESS
1.
A. Request for Imposition of Fines/Liens
2.
3.
BCC vs. Glenn McGee (new owner)
(Rather Knighton, former Owner)
BCC vs. Momoe Graham and Daisy Bell
BCC vs. Avin Noel and Maria Chavanes
.--..,.--.-..-.......-.----,---
CEB NO. 2004-047
CEB NO. 2004-045
CEB NO. 2004-038
4.
5.
6.
BCC VS. Robert P. Pekar
BCC vs. Taylor Village Condo Association
BCC vs. Seven Stores, Ltd.
CEB NO. 2004-067
CEB NO. 2004-064
CEB NO. 2004-035
B. Request for Reduction/Abatement of Fines (no requests submitted at the time of preparation)
C. Request for Foreclosure
1.
BCC vs. Robert Lockhart
CEB NO. 2004-026
7. OLD BUSINESS
8. REPORTS
A. County Attorney Quarterly Report
9. COMMENTS
a. Rules and Regulations, changes to be signed at Jan 27,2005 meeting
b. March Annual Meeting
c. Election of Officers
10. NEXT MEETING DATE
February 24, 2005
11. ADJOURN
.'----
January 27, 2005
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We'll call the Code Enforcement Board
to order, please.
Please make note, any person who decides to appeal a decision of
this board will need a record of the proceedings pertaining thereto and,
therefore, may need to ensure that a verbatim record of the
proceedings is made, which record includes the testimony and
evidence upon which the appeal is to be based.
Neither Collier County nor the Code Enforcement Board shall be
responsible for providing this record.
Roll call, please.
MR. BONANNO: Chairman Flegal?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Present.
MR. BONANNO: Ms. Dusek?
MS. DUSEK: Here.
MR. BONANNO: Mr. Bowie?
MR. BOWIE: Here.
MR. BONANNO: Ms. Barnett?
MS. BARNETT: Here.
MR. BONANNO: Mr. Doria?
(No response.)
MR. BONANNO: For the record, Mr. Doria has not called in
today.
Mr. Ponte?
MR. PONTE: Here.
MR. BONANNO: Mr. Lefebvre?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Here.
MR. BONANNO: Mr. Kraenbring?
MR. KRAENBRING: Here.
MR. BONANNO: And Mr. Hemes?
MR. HEMES: Present.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Since we have six regular members and
both our alternates are here, one of the alternates -- Mr. Hemes, I
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January 27, 2005
believe you're our first alternate, you will participate today, including
voting, to make seven members who can vote.
MR. HEMES: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Approval of our agenda. Are there any
changes, additions?
MR. BONANNO: Yes, sir. Staff has notified me that there are
several cases that have been stipulated and can be heard first.
The first is actually first on the agenda, Case 2004-074. So no
change is necessary for that one, but that is stipulated.
Item number four under public hearings, Case 2004-071, owner
Helen Stormer has also been stipulated.
And item number five, the case against Douglas White, Case No.
2004-081, has also been stipulated. So if you'd like to hear those three
first, we can accommodate those folks.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any other changes, additions?
MR. BONANNO: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I would entertain a motion to approve
the agenda as changed.
MR. BOWIE: So moved.
MS. DUSEK: Second.
MS. BARNETT: Second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
MR. BOWIE: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. HEMES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
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January 27, 2005
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. Approval of our minutes from
November 29th. Any changes, corrections?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: If none, I would entertain a motion.
MS. DUSEK: I make the motion that we accept the minutes
from the last meeting.
MR. PONTE: I second the motion.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
MR. BOWIE: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. HEMES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(N 0 response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay, public hearings are now open.
First item, we have a request for a motion to continue. Case No.
2004-0077 (sic). Martha Lee Johnson.
MS. ARNOLD: Is Ms. -- is the attorney requesting the extension
here? Colleen--
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Ms. MacAlister, from Legal Aid.
MS. ARNOLD: -- MacAlister here?
(No response.)
MS. ARNOLD: Apparently she's not here.
You all were provided a letter from Ms. MacAlister, requesting
an extension or additional time to prepare the packet.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Does county have a position?
MS. ARNOLD: Staffs not objecting to that request.
MS. DUSEK: I have no problem with that.
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January 27,2005
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any other comments from the board?
Ifnot, I would entertain a motion to place this at next month's
meeting.
MR. PONTE: I have just one comment. This has been going on
-- notice of violation was January 5 of2003. And here we are in 2005.
And here we have a situation where the attorney didn't appear. Seems
a long, drawn-out period of time for them to just continue it for
another month.
MR. LEFEBVRE: The violation was actually first observed on
November 7th, 2002, so we're looking at over two years.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: But is this not the first time it's been
brought to the board, Joe (sic)?
MR. BONANNO: Yes, sir, it actually is the first time it's been
brought.
MS. BARNETT: I'm afraid if we don't give them the right, then
they'll have something come back, because the attorney has only been
contacted and the attorney is the one that's actually asking for the
extension to prepare the case.
MS. DUSEK: I make a motion that we give the extension of
time to the Martha Lee Johnson Case 077.
MS. BARNETT: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: To when?
MS. DUSEK: To the February meeting.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. We have a motion and a second
to place this case on our February agenda. Any other discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All those in favor, signify by saying
aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
MR. BOWIE: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
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January 27, 2005
MR. HEMES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Opposed.
MR. PONTE: Opposed.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Five to two.
Next we have a motion for an extension of time. Case No.
2004-001. Robert G. France.
MS. ARNOLD: We have Attorney Carlo Zampogna here
representing Mr. France.
MR. ZAMPOGNA: Good morning, members of the board. My
name is Carlo Zampogna, Woodward, Pires, Lombardo, attorney for
Robert France.
We're here today presenting a motion for extension of time and
waiver of fees.
An order was entered for compliance on March 2nd, 2004, and
we were supposed to come into compliance by December 22nd, 2004.
We have been attempting to -- we've been attempting to work
with the county to propose I guess a viable solution to bring our
property into compliance.
On December 14th, we went in front of the Board of County
Commissioners for a public petition and offered a partial exchange.
Since that time, we've been working with county staff and have come
up with what appears to be a viable solution to bring our property into
compliance with the Land Development Code. Actually, we came--
went in front of the board just on Tuesday, January 25th, and
presented our final proposal.
There are a few things that we need to hammer out and make
sure that everything goes smoothly. However, it will take an
additional three to four months to complete this transaction.
I know that our motion does say 60 days from December 22nd;
however, if I could amend that motion. I don't know how many days
would be appropriate for that.
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January 27, 2005
At this time we'd like to consider -- if you could consider that, the
amendment as well. And we would also present a status report in
writing to the board so that you can see how we are progressing with
closing this transaction, so you're not left in the dark.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Question. You asked for a motion to
continue once and we granted it, you asked for a motion to extend and
we granted it. Now you're back again asking for a motion to extend.
MR. ZAMPOGNA: We've been working with the county. This
is all in good faith. We have been working with the county . We
worked with Collier County Real Estate Services and presented a few
proposals to them, perhaps buying the county's land, and that didn't go
through. We also offered the county our land as surplus and that
didn't go through.
So then our final option, we did go and present a public petition
to the board, and that's what's taken so long.
MR. PONTE: There was supposed to be a meeting on the 25th
of January.
MR. ZAMPOGNA: There was, and we did have it.
MR. PONTE: And what happened?
MR. ZAMPOGNA: And the board approved it. The board has
instructed county staff to continue to work with us and complete this
transaction.
MR. BOWIE: That seems awful vague.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Yeah.
MR. BOWIE: What you're offering to do is to try. Nothing
more.
MR. ZAMPOGNA: We're actually not trying, we're (sic)
actually have a proposal in place which does bring our property into
compliance. And right now it's just being reviewed by utilities. That's
the final step. And then a few -- there's a survey that needs to be done.
MS. ARNOLD: Board, Jennifer Belpedio has been involved in
some of the negotiation that's been transpired between Mr. Zampogna,
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January 27, 2005
his clients and the utility administration, so she may want to add on
there to indicate whether or not this is proceeding in good faith.
MS. BELPEDIO: I do. Thank you, Michelle. My name is
Jennifer Belpedio, I'm an assistant county attorney.
I agree with what Mr. Zampogna is saying. I believe that, and the
county believes that he is working diligently to achieve a resolution
with the county. In fact, the terms of the agreement have been
reached. It's just that this is not your typical agreement or method to
achieve compliance. It's a little different than just obtaining a permit.
There will be a real estate transaction. There will be a lot line
adjustment. And what's necessary at this time is that there be terms
identified in an agreement to memorialize and implement it. It's not
that there's an agreement to agree. An agreement has been reached.
From what I hear from the multiple attorneys in our office that
are working on this matter, it will take three months at least to achieve
compliance. But I assure you that the county has every interest in
working with this property owner. We're seeking to obtain the
property for well sites. This is something that the county wants and
it's certainly not something that's going to languish.
I can certainly answer any questions, if you'd like.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Jennifer, you say three months. So if
we would extend this to our April meeting, that gives you roughly
three months. Do you think that will be sufficient time for something
to happen?
MS. BELPEDIO: Yes, sir, I think it's sufficient time for more
than something to happen. I think the agreement will be drafted and it
will be implemented.
There's also consultants working with the county on this case,
and I don't see why that wouldn't be an appropriate date.
I think that's a good suggestion that Mr. Zampogna made to this
board, that he provide status checks by writing to this board. And if it's
determined for some unforeseen circumstance that more time is
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January 27, 2005
necessary, this board will know well in advance and will make sure
that it's with sufficient detail.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay.
MS. BARNETT: Cliff?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Yes, ma'am.
MS. BARNETT: May I make a suggestion, that rather than
April, we do it to May? That gives them an extension for one more
month and maybe everything would be completed by then and we
wouldn't have to then make a term of extending it. Just to err on the
side of caution.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: That would certainly be an option.
I guess if we do anything, I would recommend that the board
consider if we make a motion to do this, we make the motion
contingent upon the respondent's attorney filing a report with us at
least five days prior to each meeting before whatever date is we place
it. If we make it in May, then before our February and our March and
our April meeting, at least five days before that meeting, we would
expect a status report of what's going on.
I would also state that what we should do is put out that failure to
provide a status report would be basis to immediately place the case
on our agenda and proceed, so that we don't have excuses like gee, I
forgot. That doesn't work with me, I'm sorry.
You make the report. If you fail to make the report, my
recommendation to my fellow board members would be we put you
on the next agenda and we proceed. No excuses.
MR. ZAMPOGNA: I understand. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We expect you to do something.
MR. ZAMPOGNA: We will.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Not just gee, I got an extension.
MR. PONTE: Is what you're suggesting that he file a report
every month?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Yes. Until it comes up in whatever the
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January 27, 2005
day is you pick. April, May, whatever date. But he has to do it
monthly. And if he fails to do it, then it would be placed on the next
agenda. Ifhe failed to do it in February, then in March we're going to
proceed with it. There's no excuses, none of this I'm working with the
county . We gave you a chance, we've been nice a lot. And we're
going to proceed. Understand, sir?
MR. ZAMPOGNA: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: That's if the membership agrees. That's
just my recommendation.
MS. DUSEK: I have a little bit different take on that.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Sure.
MS. DUSEK: For the most part I agree with everything you've
said.
Hearing the strength from the assistant county attorney and how
diligently they all are working and how many people are working on
this, I can't imagine that it's not going to come to a conclusion within
that four months.
I do think that he should give us a report every month. But
stipulating that five days prior, and if he didn't do the five days prior to
that we put the case on the next month, I don't agree with that.
I do agree that we should give him the four months and that he
should give us a report every month. Failing to do so, I don't feel
strongly that we should just automatically put the case on the next
month.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Well, I said that because this has been
going on for a while now, and it's -- you know, we need to get some
kind of action. I don't think this board is here just to continue
something forever. We need to make some kind of decision.
They have the right to ask us to do something different, if they
don't like what we've done. I just think we need to get on with it
rather than oh, let's grant an extension. Well, then three months later
let's grant another extension __
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January 27,2005
MS. DUSEK: I think we've heard that they certainly are doing
something. And that's the difference. And this sounds like it's much
more complicated than --
MS. BARNETT: Well, this is a case, I think that there was a
question as to whether the county owned the property originally or the
property line was on the individual's side and there was a
disagreement back and forth and they're trying to iron that out.
If I recall, the actual problem is that he built the building, had all
the permits and everything, and it happens to be on the county
property .
So I think this is a two-sided issue. The county has to come into
agreement with him or vice versa for them to settle this.
And I don't think it's either party's fault that they have to come.
And it takes time to get to that type of agreement. Because as Jennifer
has stated, they have to redraw the lines, and that takes some time.
I'm of the feeling that we need to go ahead. And I know we've
given extensions, and we don't usually like to give extensions. I think
this is not a case where anybody is in harm. There isn't anything
pending that is of danger to anybody. It's a matter of who owns the
property and where the line is. And I think it's something that we
should be able to look at in that retrospect and go ahead and grant this
final -- hopefully final extension.
I kind of agree with Cliff, though, that I do believe the gentleman
needs to give us a monthly update, if we give him an extension. And
the five days is so that our recorder can get it into our packet. And I
think that that's fair.
Also, I like the fact that if you don't do it, I think we have the
right to say okay, we have something we have to do. Because we
want to know what's going on. Because we've done a couple of these
and people have said that they were going to come back to us and then
we didn't hear from them. So I'm kind of in agreement with Cliff in
that.
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January 27,2005
MR. PONTE: Well, I agree that that should be extended, but I'm
having a little problem with the monthly reporting. I'm not
comfortable with that. It seems like a make work project, and we
would just be repeating ourselves. And perhaps every 60 days we
should have a report, but I think monthly is just creating work.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. I only say that for one reason:
We had a case, we had a motion, we had an extension. This is the
fourth time this case has been before us and now it's going to come
back for a fifth time. Talk about make work.
MR. BOWIE: I think I would concur with the requirement of
monthly reports. I'd like to hear what's going on and, further, that
what is going on is in fact in good faith. So I think in addition to us
getting monthly reports, I'd also like to each month get some
affirmation from the county, through Jennifer or whomever, that the
progress in that report is still continuing as a matter of good faith. And
I think that too should be a requirement.
MR. HEMES: On another issue, Michelle, could you give us an
indication of how much expenditures have been placed on this case to
date, as it has been running for quite a while?
MS. ARNOLD: Do you want that number as of today?
MR. HEMES: Please.
MS. ARNOLD: Let's see, we do have that number.
I'm going from memory, because I was asked this question and it
was brought to the board's attention on Tuesday. I think it's about 800
and some dollars, almost $900.
MR. ZAMPOGNA: $815 and change.
MS. ARNOLD: Thank you.
MR. HEMES: Have you paid any of these charges?
MR. ZAMPOGNA: No, but my client is willing to pay all
charges that are due to the Code Enforcement Board and also due to
the county.
We have accepted that we will pay for all application fees and all
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January 27,2005
survey fees and all the costs necessary to implement this.
MR. HEMES: Thank you.
MR. BOWIE: Well, I'd like to make a motion that we grant an
extension of time in this case, Board of County Commissioners versus
Robert D. France, Case No. 2004-001; the extension be no later than
our May, 2005 meeting. And that the extension be conditioned upon
the respondent reporting to us in writing within five days of each
successive monthly meeting. And further conditioned upon the
county affirming that progress toward resolution is continuing in good
faith. And that failing either condition being met, that no further
extension will be deemed granted beyond that month in question.
MS. DUSEK: I can't go along with that. Especially the latter
part. I could go along with the first part, but with circumstances --
what we want people to do is come into compliance. Both parties,
both the county and the respondent, have been working on this. And
they're not -- it's not as though they've slacked at all. And to penalize
them if they can't come into compliance in four months, which I think
they will, to say that we would never give another extension, I think is
not fair.
MR. BOWIE: Well, this doesn't say will never give another
extension. It just says if there's any evidence that the progress is not
continuing in good faith over these four successive months --
MS. DUSEK: I think we'll know that.
MR. BOWIE: -- that at that point we will review it, and we will
not be deemed to continue with the extension beyond that month. Nor
I think does it prevent us from granting a further extension, come
May, 2005, if we're asked to do so.
MS. DUSEK: I'd like for you to simplify that motion, that's my
personal feeling, so I that would feel --
MR. BOWIE: Well, my concern I think is shared by the
Chairman. There's been a continuance, there's been an extension.
This has gone on and on and on. And I think yes, maybe we can allow
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January 27, 2005
it to go on for four additional months, but I think there needs to be
some fairly stringent conditions as to allowing it to go on any further.
MS. DUSEK: I might just remind everybody again that this is
not your ordinary case of just getting a permit. It's very complicated.
And that's why it has taken so long. So I think there should be some
thought when we decide on the motion.
MR. BOWIE: To me it just sounds like another real estate
transaction. Parties sit down, sign a contract, this is where the
boundary is, this land is deeded to this land, switch, swap, whatever,
done deal. Maybe the bureaucracy moves a little slower than the
private sector was, but I can't see why a real estate transaction of this
nature can't be negotiated and put in writing within 30 days, deeds and
all.
MR. PONTE: Let me ask the county: Is there a reason?
MS. BELPEDIO: My understanding is that it's being determined
whether or not the property that will be acquired from Mr. France is
suitable for well sites. There's requirements for well sites and where
they're placed and how deep they are. So it's not just a matter of you
can put a well site on any parcel or property of any dimension. That's
my understanding.
MR. BOWIE: So failing that determination, there's no deal with
him them, correct?
MS. BELPEDIO: I think with everything there can be terms that
will make it work. It's just a matter of what size works. And where it
is. It's a matter of is it one foot over from this side or one foot over
from that side. It's not that there's any circumstances that would lead
me to believe that it's a deal breaker. There's -- it's just a matter of
making sure that the county has what it needs for the well sites and
Mr. France has what he needs to meet his setbacks on his property to
allow him to have the metal shed structure.
MR. BOWIE: Again, I'm amenable to go with the four months.
But I'd sure like it hedged with certain conditions so that we can verify
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January 27, 2005
the progress and the continued good faith of that progress.
MS. DUSEK: I would agree with that motion.
MS. BARNETT: I think I'm getting the opinion that you would
agree to the motion as long -- that they would have to come back and
give us updates --
MS. DUSEK: Yes.
MS. BARNETT: -- you just don't want us to have the hammer--
MS. DUSEK: I don't want --
MS. BARNETT: -- that if they don't do the update, that we
would then --
MS. DUSEK: That we would then penalize them from not
asking for another extension -- or granting another extension.
So if you simplify it to that, if you can amend your motion --
MR. BOWIE: Well, I --
MS. DUSEK: -- that we could give them four months and --
MR. BOWIE: Yeah, I would just add that nothing in this motion
would preclude them at any time from asking for another extension.
Which --
MS. DUSEK: Would you do me--
MR. BOWIE: -- I think goes without saying.
MS. DUSEK: Would you just repeat your motion, the way you
want it voted on?
MR. BOWIE: It's that we grant the motion to extend. That the
motion -- the extension be no later than our May, 2005 meeting. That
the extension be conditioned on two things: Number one, that the
respondent submit a written status report of five days prior to each of
our successive monthly meetings through May, 2005.
And further, condition number two, upon the county affirming
that progress is still continuing each month in good faith. And that
nothing further in this motion precludes the respondent from
requesting a further extension of time, if circumstances should
warrant.
Page 15
~~--
January 27,2005
MS. BARNETT: You took out then the fact that if they don't
send us the update --
MR. BOWIE: We would, I presume, have that option to amend
this extension of time --
MS. DUSEK: I'll second your motion before it changes.
MR. BOWIE: Because we would --
MS. BARNETT: I was just trying to clarify.
MR. BOWIE: If the conditions are not met -- if the conditions
are not met, we would always be able to curtail the extension at that
point in time. So I don't have any problem with that.
MS. DUSEK: Did you get the motion?
THE COURT REPORTER: Yes.
MS. DUSEK: I'm seconding the motion before there was any
more discussion.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I understand the motion, I understand
the second.
Jean, I have a question.
MS. RAWSON: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: The last part of Ray's motion said it
was contingent upon the county affirming. We have no power over
the county doing anything.
MS. RAWSON: I don't think we can order the county to do that.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: This really has no bearing on this
motion. Because we can't order the county to do anything at all.
MS. RAWSON: We can certainly--
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We can request them --
MS. RAWSON: We can certainly--
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: -- but we can't put it in an order --
MS. RAWSON: -- ask counsel to give us a status report five
days prior to the meetings. We can certainly grant the extension till
May 26th; that's our May meeting. I don't know if we can order the
county to affirm.
Page 16
January 27,2005
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: There's no way that we can put in an
order that the county has to do something. So I think that part of it is
not going to be applicable. Am I correct there?
MR. BOWIE: See, my concern would be, if we don't have an
affirmation from the county's side that what we're hearing from the
respondent each month in these status reports that this is in fact in
good faith, we could get forth months of flimflam-ery --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Unfortunately we have --
MR. BOWIE: -- playing for time. We've already seen some
extensions of time here, and I wouldn't tolerate that.
MS. ARNOLD: I don't believe the county's adverse to providing
that information, if you --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We just -- it means nothing in an order,
because we have no power.
MS. RAWSON: As a practical matter, the person that's going to
present you with the status report is the county.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Right. And we can request --
MS. RAWSON: So you can ask questions.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Right, we can ask the county that when
they present the respondent's status report, could they also affirm that
this is in fact true and you all are working together?
MS. BELPEDIO: Sure, we can--
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: That's the best we can do is ask you to
do that.
MS. BELPEDIO: Well, you can, but certainly we can agree to it
today and it can be put into the order as binding as an agreement from
the county. We're not adverse to providing you with the affirmation.
MS. BARNETT: Can we change the one word, rather than
requiring the county --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: What I need from Jean is, is it legal for
us to do anything like that? I don't want to write an order that's not --
MS. RAWSON: I think if you have the respondent file the status
Page 17
..- >_.._---_.,-^_.'""'--,.--..~_.,......_...~ '<--.---
January 27,2005
report to the board within five days, then the county is going to
present it to you, and then you have the option, as of course you also
do, to ask the county and the county attorney questions. And if it's not
going well, I think she'll tell you. So--
MS. DUSEK: You're suggesting that we leave that part of the --
MS. RAWSON: I am.
MS. DUSEK: Okay. Ray, you'll amend that?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We still don't have any power.
MS. DUSEK: We don't have the right to do that?
MR. BOWIE: Then I think the second condition, rather than
requiring an affirmation of good faith progress from the county, that
we make it again conditioned upon the written status report. The first
condition would remain as is.
And perhaps number two could be that our continuing the
extension of time will be only upon our own determination --
MS. DUSEK: Well, that would be the case--
MR. BOWIE: -- that progress is being made in good faith.
MS. DUSEK: I don't think you have to put that in the motion,
though.
MR. BOWIE: Well, I think the respondent quite honestly needs
to be kept under the gun.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I don't have a problem with that.
MR. BOWIE: Yeah, I think we need to keep them under the gun.
I just don't want to see four months of written reports stating basically
we're trying and we're going to try again.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I mean, they've had -- they've been
working on it for nine months and now we're giving them another four
months. I'm not happy about this, but I understand.
Okay, how about this last sentence where -- I like what Ray said
on his last sentence where we can -- it's our determination that when
we review the status, as to making the next decision. That's fine, isn't
. J ?
It, ean.
Page 18
,.,-"~_._---~,^~,--,,.- -'"---
January 27,2005
MS. RAWSON: That's okay.
MS. DUSEK: Wouldn't we automatically do that?
MS. RAWSON: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Yeah, but if it's in writing, then it's
there, the respondent and his attorney's attention that you are on notice
that what you present to us is going to be reviewed and affect this
continuance, rather than be just understood.
MS. DUSEK: So what we're doing is basing this motion on our
review of the report each month. And if we don't like the review, then
the extension of time is canceled. Is that basically --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Well, what he submits--
MS. DUSEK: -- what you're saying?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: -- in the report and what the county
tells us doesn't match up. We can then --
MR. BOWIE: Curtail the extension.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: -- call for it to be presented before us as
a -- on the next meeting. In other words, if he submits something that
says A --
MS. DUSEK: Yeah, I understand.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: -- and the county says B, I mean,
they're supposed to be working together, why don't they match.
So you still want to second?
MS. DUSEK: I'm thinking. Maybe somebody else wants to
second. Because '--
MS. BARNETT: I'll second it, just so that it gets through, and
then we can vote on it.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay, we have a motion and a second.
She's withdrawing her second because she's not happy with the
change, and Sheri is seconding the new -- the amended motion.
Okay, we have a motion and a second. Any further discussion on
the item?
(No response.)
Page 19
January 27, 2005
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All those in favor, signify by saying
aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
MR. BOWIE: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. HEMES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Motion carries.
Okay, sir, you understand?
MR. ZAMPOGNA: Yes, sir, thank you very much.
MS. BELPEDIO: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Public hearings. We have a stipulation
on Case 2004-074.
MS. ARNOLD: Yes. And supervisor John Marsh will present
the stipulation that was agreed to.
(Speakers were duly sworn.)
MR. MARSH: For the record, my name is John Marsh,
supervisor, Collier County Code Enforcement.
This is Case No. 2004-74, County versus Keith Heckman. The
violation was illegal land use and non-C.O. of a fence permit.
To this point, the illegal land use has been abated. The only
violation that still exists is the C.O. of the fence.
There was a prior fence permit which may be able to be C.O.'d,
so the respondent has agreed to pay costs in the amount of $372.96,
and he's already abated the items on the property.
And he's agreed to get a fence permit and/or C.O. within 30 days
or a fine of $50 per day, as the violation continues.
MS. DUSEK: I'm sorry, the fence permit and C.O. would be in
Page 20
January 27, 2005
how many days? Thirty, did you say?
MR. MARSH: Thirty days.
There was already a fence permit issued, but it was never C.O.'d.
So it's a possibility that permit can be C.O.'d. Ifnot, then get a new
permit.
MR. HEMES: Can this be accomplished in 30 days?
MR. MARSH: It should be. It's just a matter of a fence permit.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Fence permits, Michelle, aren't they
pretty quick?
MS. ARNOLD: Yeah. They can get an express permit for a
fence.
MS. BARNETT: Was there anything stipulated that ifhe didn't
MR. MARSH: Right, if he doesn't, then the fine of $50 per day.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Mr. Heckman, do you agree to all this?
MR. HECKMAN: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: No problem?
MR. HECKMAN: Ain't gonna matter.
MS. DUSEK: I make a motion we accept the stipulated
agreement between the county and Mr. Heckman.
MR. PONTE: I'll second the motion.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and second to accept
the stipulated agreement between the county and Mr. Heckman.
MR. BOWIE: Should the terms of the stipulation be stated for
the record?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Jean, the county--
MS. RAWSON: I think he did state them.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay, you satisfied with that?
MS. RAWSON: It's basically only the fence. The other has been
abated --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Right.
MS. RAWSON: -- right?
Page 21
January 27,2005
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: It's been abated, and they've agreed on
a cost. And he will obtain a permit or C.O. within 30 days and $50 a
day.
MR. HECKMAN: If they'll give me one.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay, everybody on board? Any
further questions?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All those in favor, signify by saying
aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
MR. BOWIE: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. HEMES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Thank you, gentlemen.
We also have a stipulated agreement on Case 2004-071, Helen
Stormer. I hope I said that right.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Do I go?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We need to have you sworn in.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MR. LETOURNEAU: For the record, Jeff Letourneau, Collier
County Code Enforcement investigator.
This case resolves around two guest house type structures that
were built on this property with plumbing, electric and septic
improvements that were never -- a building permit was never
obtained, inspection, C. O.
Before this meeting I met with Ms. Colon, who is the property
owner's daughter and has I guess power of attorney for that property
Page 22
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January 27, 2005
and they've agreed to a stipulated agreement. It basically follows the
guidelines of my recommendation, except we changed the 90 days to
120 days to get the violations abated.
And I'd like to point out that the permits have already been
applied for. They haven't been obtained yet, but they've already been
applied for.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: So you both agreed, Jeff, on the
obtaining the permits within 120 days and/or $100 a day fine?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Correct.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: And you ruled out the demolition
permit part of it?
MR. LETOURNEAU: That's still part of the agreement.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay, as you presented it.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Correct.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay.
MS. DUSEK: Jeff, I have one question. Do we have proof of
Power of Attorney?
MR. LETOURNEAU: I don't have proof of that, no.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We'll ask her in a minute.
MS. ARNOLD: I'm not sure whether or not Jennifer obtained
that information.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Well, let's just ask her. If she's here,
let's find out if she has -- ma'am, do you have Power of Attorney on
this property?
MS. COLON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. Can you give a copy of that to
the county?
MS. COLON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. Now, do you agree with what
Mr. Letourneau said on this agreement that you both agreed to?
MS. COLON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. Any problems at all?
Page 23
January 27, 2005
MS. COLON: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. Okay, we have a stipulated
agreement presented to us between the county and the --
MR. LETOURNEAU: Excuse me, Mr. Chairman, I would like
to point out that the operational costs were also added into the
agreements.
MR. BOWIE: And what is the amount?
MS. ARNOLD: It's $647.77.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Well, but until it's completed, there'll be
other operational costs.
So what the board is going to do is request that you pay the
operational costs whenever this is over. Whatever that amount is.
That's what we do normally, and it's not that we tell you to pay
something today and then for the next three months you get off
scot-free. Sorry. When it's done, it's done, and whatever you owe,
you're going to have to pay, okay?
MS. COLON: Yes, sir.
MS. DUSEK: I make a motion that we accept the stipulated
agreement between the county, Board of County Commissioners
versus Helen Stormer, with the understanding that it would be 190
days from -- excuse me, I'm looking at 90 -- 120 days from the date of
this hearing. And to include all operational costs. This is from the
original recommendation made by the county.
MR. HEMES: I'll second the motion.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. Also, what you left out is there's
a fine of $100 a day if she fails to comply.
MS. DUSEK: That's in the original recommendation, so--
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Right.
MS. DUSEK: -- I said within the original recommendation.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay, but we -- Jean, you got all that?
MS. RAWSON: I think I do.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. Jeff, do you want to -- for the
Page 24
January 27, 2005
record, do you want to tell us about the alternate of getting a
demolition permit, since that was part of the agreement? That hasn't
been read into the record, so would you do that for us?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Yeah, must obtain a Collier County
demolition permit and remove the structure and all related debris to an
area intended for final disposal within 60 days of this hearing, or a fine
of $100 a day will be imposed for each day the violation continues.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: That's if she fails to do the first item,
correct?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Correct.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Which she's already applied for the first
permit, so, you know, I highly doubt that's going to come into effect,
but --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I just -- you have two options, ma'am:
You can get the regular permits and do what you want to do, or you
can get a demolition permit. So you have two options.
MS. COLON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: And that was -- that's what you
understood originally?
MS. COLON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. So we have a motion from
Bobbie.
MR. HEMES: And a second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Is there a second?
MR. HEMES: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a second. Anymore questions?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Ifnone, all those in favor, signify by
saYIng aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
MR. BOWIE: Aye.
Page 25
January 27, 2005
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. HEMES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Thank you both.
We have another stipulated agreement, Case No. 2004-081,
Douglas White.
MR. BRYANT: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of the
board. I'm David Bryant, I represent Mr. White, who's present before
you today.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay, one moment, please.
Jeff, are you ready?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Yes, I am--
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay, just a moment.
Cherie'?
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Is this Mr. White back here?
MR. BRYANT: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Bring him up and swear him in,
because we're going to ask him a couple questions.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay, Jeff.
MR. LETOURNEAU: This case involves a guest house/office
structure built without obtaining a Collier County building permit for
it.
I met with Mr. White and his attorney, Mr. Bryant, this morning
before the meeting and they have agreed to a stipulated agreement.
Basically it follows the same guidelines as my recommendation, but
we added a little note at the bottom. It says go through the whole --
Page 26
"_"_~>.·._~·w.,.,_.·".
11M. .._,-
January 27, 2005
number one, obtaining the permit for the structure within 60 days, a
fine of $100 a day will be imposed for each day the violation
continues. And must obtain all required inspections, certificate of
occupancy or completion within 60 days of the permit issuance, or a
fine of $100 a day will be imposed for each day the violation
continues. Or after the 120th day from this date is what Mr. Bryant
asked us to add in there and we agreed to it.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Run that by me again? Or what now?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Yeah, let him explain it better.
MR. BRYANT: I don't think Jeff inserted the addendum. What
we want to be sure is there's not any question about if Mr. White didn't
do what he has agreed to do, which there's no question he's going to,
that we would know when the fine would start to run.
And what the agreement was is that it would begin the 120th day
after the date of this hearing today, if he does not complete everything
he's supposed to do, or he's required to demolish the building.
MS. BARNETT: That's not how it reads, though, because you
have --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: So what you're saying that you and the
county agreed to basically is you get 120 days from today, and if you
don't do it, then it's $100 a day.
MR. BRYANT: That's correct. Because we've got 60 days first
to get the permit, which we should have hopefully within -- I'm hoping
within five weeks. According to what I have been told at the planning
and building department, it's taking roughly six weeks to get a permit
through permitting.
So the county was kind enough to agree to 60 days to get the
permit. And then 60 days after that he has got to have completed
everything the permit is required of him. And if he doesn't have that
completed within that final 60 days, which would be the 120th day
from this hearing, then the fine would start to run.
MS. BARNETT: I understand what --y
Page 27
January 27, 2005
MR. PONTE: That's a half a year.
MS. BARNETT: -- you're saying, but that's not what this is
saying. This is giving it two breakdowns. If you don't finish the first
item within 60 days, then a fine of $100 a day kicks in. So you have a
60-day window there.
The second is if you completed that, that's fine, you don't have
that $100 a day. But if you don't have the $100 a day, then you have
the second part that states that if you have not received all the required
inspections and the C.O. within 60 days after you've obtained the
permit, then another $100 a day kicks in.
MR. BRYANT: Well, in all due respect, Ms. Barnett, I don't
read it that way. I don't see two $100 fines there. I think it's one $100
fine.
But I wanted to be sure that there was no question when it would
start. And the reason I was requesting this of the county, and Ms.
Arnold -- Michelle has been just very kind to meet with us, her staffs
met with us, and we've worked this out so that we've got plenty of
time to get the permit. Because that's the only thing I'm worried
about, dealing with planning and zoning a lot, the permit process has
been very slow. That's so why I wanted it to be clear, that if we
haven't done everything within 120 days of today's date, the fine
starts.
MS. BARNETT: I understand what you're saying.
MS. ARNOLD: And I read through the stipulation that was
signed, and it is confusing the way it's written. And I talked to Jeff
and what he's indicating is that he -- he's in no objection to just
extending everything to 120 days. So they would have 120 days to
obtain the permit and also the certificate of occupying. And then
therefore --
MS. BARNETT: I think it's a lot clearer--
MS. ARNOLD: -- $100 per day.
MS. BARNETT: -- and that's what I was getting to --
Page 28
"'.---"^
January 27, 2005
MS. ARNOLD: Right.
MS. BARNETT: -- going to Jeffnext.
MR. BRYANT: I should have had Ms. Arnold speak --
MR. PONTE: We're talking about a half year, 180 days?
MR. LETOURNEAU: No, we're talking about 120 days to get
the permit, all the inspections and get the certificate of occupancy.
MS. DUSEK: With just one fine?
MR. LETOURNEAU: With just one fine, yes. $100 a day fine to
kick in if they don't have all that completed within 120 days.
MR. KRAENBRING: Does that negate the demolition part of
this, though?
MR. BOWIE: Yeah, is that withdrawn?
MR. BRYANT: Yes, sir, it is. And we agreed --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: They're leaving that out.
MR. BRYANT: And I would share with the board also that the
drawings have all been completed and hopefully we'll be submitting
them by next week.
And I provided the county with a letter from the individual and
company that's doing all the drawings, telling them that we are
following within this time frame.
MS. DUSEK: And have you agreed to operational costs?
MR. BRYANT: Yes, ma'am, we have. Today's date it's
$537.26.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Again, we don't want to put an amount
in. We want -- just the sentence will read -- I mean, I know what they
agreed to, but the board has the right to change any of these stipulated
agreements. And my recommendation to my board members, fellow
board members, would be that he's responsible for all operational
costs, as usual, upon completion.
MR. BRYANT: And we have no --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: If this is going to go on for another 120
days, there's going to be costs. So if you put a number in today, the
Page 29
January 27,2005
number's the number. You don't want to do that.
MR. BOWIE: Well, I'd like to move that we accept the
. stipulation as it's been related to us, and that that stipulation include
respondent paying all the operational costs, and obtaining building
permits, as required, as well as all required inspections and certificate
of completion or occupancy within 120 days of this date or a fine of
$100 a day will be imposed for each day this violation continues.
MR. BRYANT: We have no objection to that, members of the
board.
MS. BARNETT: Second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. Before we go on, Mr. White?
MR. WHITE: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Do you understand what we --
MR. WHITE: Yes, I do.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I think we understand the agreement.
And we made one minor change. Do you understand that?
MR. WHITE: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Do you have a problem?
MR. WHITE: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay, thank you, sir.
Okay, we have a motion and a second on the floor to accept the
stipulated agreement, with a minor change on the operational costs.
Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All those in favor, signify by saying
aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
MR. BOWIE: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
Page 30
January 27, 2005
MR. HEMES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Thank you, gentlemen.
MR. BRYANT: Thank you.
And I just want to thank Ms. Arnold and her staff for being so
helpful in bringing this to a conclusion, too.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Thank you.
Okay, now, regular public hearings. Case 2004-075, Ralph and
Jean Taylor.
Jean, are you okay?
MS. RAWSON: I'm fine, thank you.
MR. BONANNO: This is CEB Case No. 2004-075, Board of
County Commissioners versus Ralph and Jean Taylor. The violation
is that of Sections 2.7.6.1 and 2.7.6.5 of Ordinance 91-102, as
amended, the Collier County Land Development Code.
The violation is described as no permits for alterations of
structure, improvement to property prior to obtaining permit,
electrical, plumbing, doors, windows, walls.
The violations exists at 219 Second Street South, Immokalee,
Florida.
The person in charge of the location where the violation exists
are Ralph and Jean Taylor.
The violation was first observed on August 6th, 2003.
A notice of violation was served on August 13th, 2003.
Violation was to be corrected on or before September 4th, 2003.
A reinspection occurred on December 29th, 2004. And as of that
date, the violation still remained.
I will now pass the case to the investigator, John Marsh.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Before we begin, are the Taylors here?
Okay, go ahead, Mr. Marsh, thank you.
Page 3 1
January 27, 2005
MR. MARSH: For the record again, John Marsh, Collier County
Code Enforcement Supervisor.
On August 6th, 2003, a complaint was received anonymously
that improvements were being made to a structure at 219 Second
Street South, Immokalee, without permits.
MR. BONANNO: I'm sorry, John? Over here.
I'm sorry, I have to introduce the packet into evidence. My fault,
sorry .
MR. MARSH: I'm sorry.
MR. BONANNO: No, no, my fault.
The county submitted a packet of evidence labeled Exhibit A for
this case. We'd like to have it entered as Exhibit A, please.
MS. DUSEK: I make the motion that we accept the County's
Exhibit A.
MR. PONTE: Second.
MR. BOWIE: Second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second to
accept the County's Exhibit A. All those in favor, signify by saying
aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
MR. BOWIE: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. HEMES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
MR. BONANNO: Go ahead, John, I'm sorry.
MR. MARSH: No problem.
This case was started by Investigator Rick Torres. He made a
visit the same day that the complaint came in. He observed
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January 27, 2005
improvements being made to said property, interior walls, electrical,
plumbing and windows. No permits were posted. There are no
permits on file with the county.
On August 7th, Investigator Rick Torres returned to the site,
posted a stop work order, and a notice of violation for making
improvements without a permit.
A notice of violation was sent certified mail to the property
owners, Ralph W. and M. Jean Taylor of Fort Myers.
It was learned by Investigator Rick Torres that the property was
in the process of being sold, but to this date no change of ownership
has occurred. Investigator Rick Torres and myself have made many
site visits and had conversations with the respective buyer, his
attorney and contact with Mr. Taylor, but the violation remains and no
permits have been issued to this date.
MS. BARNETT: I just have one question, and it's a curiosity
question more than anything else. Why did it take from September
4th to today before we saw it? I mean, that's over a year.
MR. MARSH: When the case first started back then, there was a
prospective buyer for the property, so it was the idea that the
prospective buyer was going to get the property and get the permits
and such. So everything's been going back and forth between the
buyer, his attorney and the property owner.
Rather than us pushing the case along without giving them a
chance to -- you know, the new buyer to get the property, because he's
the one that actually was starting to make the improvements -- some
kind of a deal between the buyer and the property owner, so the buyer
went in and started making, you know, improvements. So that's why
it's taken this long. Finally got to the point we said, well, nothing's
moving along, nothing's happening, let's take it to the board and we'll
get something happening.
MR. PONTE: Excuse me, the windows in the photographs look
open. Is the building open and accessible to homeless people? And is
Page 33
--->-.--.....,.._~._,,_.....,,--, ,.",,---.,~-,,-.,.."
January 27, 2005
there any evidence that it is being used as a shelter?
MR. MARSH: I was there yesterday for an inspection. It does
look like people are living in there. Some of the doors on the new
walls that were put up look like they have locks on them. So people
are out of them at the present time, but they've locked their rooms.
The holes that you see that are windows, some have fans stuffed
in them, some have some makeshift bars put on them. But they are
basically still open.
MR. PONTE: So there's a safety hazard for anybody living in
this building.
MR. MARSH: I guess you could say that.
MR. PONTE : Well, if we say that, then I would think --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: John, do we have --
MR. PONTE: -- we have a different problem.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Do we have basically people living,
possibly living in a structure that has not been C.O.'d for these
improvements; i.e., the electrical, the plumbing and all this?
MR. MARSH: Right, there's a possibility. I can't say for sure
there are. Just -- I was not allowed access into the building. The
owner or the manager were not there so, therefore, I couldn't get in. I
could only see from the door being opened down this hallway. So I
couldn't say for sure if there are people living in there or there aren't.
MS. BARNETT: Is this a rental property?
MR. MARSH: I would assume that that's what they're doing. At
one time before they did all of this it was just a big open building with
beds all in there, and they used to rent out a space, rent out a bed.
Now evidently they put walls up so they could have rooms.
MR. PONTE: So what you noticed is when you looked into the
building and along the corridor, that there are a series of locked doors
inside the building? Is that what I'm seeing?
MR. MARSH: Yes. Either the owner or management locked
them up so people won't go in them or --
Page 34
January 27, 2005
MR. PONTE: They're padlocks?
MR. MARSH: Yes. Right, that's --
MR. HEMES: John, do you have any idea how many people are
living in this structure?
MR. MARSH: No, sir.
MR. HEMES: Guess? You know, six, 10, 12.
MR. MARSH: Well, this is only one section of the structure.
This would be the right side of the structure. There's another whole
part of the unit on the other side to the left side, which we have no
problem with at the present time.
At this time I think there are four rooms on each side of the
hallway. The rooms probably are maybe -- and I'm only guessing,
maybe eight to 10 foot wide by maybe 10 foot deep. So they're not
very large rooms.
MS. BARNETT: Are they still renting out --like in the other
side of the structure that's just open, are they still renting out space?
MR. MARSH: I can't say for sure on that.
MS. BARNETT: Because I'm wondering, does this fall
underneath the code for the amount of people allowed to stay per
square foot in an area?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: It wasn't written up for that, so we can't
really --
MS. BARNETT: I'm uncomfortable about this whole thing.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Well--
MR. MARSH: I am, too.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: -- we can't say anything about that,
because it's not what he was written up for.
MR. PONTE: One other question, Investigator. Is there any
evidence around of people using the building, like are there bicycles
outside or carts or anything of that nature?
MR. MARSH: Yes, there are people that hang around there,
sitting around out front, sitting around out back.
Page 35
January 27, 2005
It's a section of the area where there are a lot of homeless people,
a lot of people that aren't working; they just wonder around, hang out.
It's hard to say who belongs where, really. Sometimes you see them
on this corner, next time you see them on another corner. There just --
they wander around all day.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: John, this 30 days to get proper permits
that they need for what they've done -- and obviously they're not
finished, based on the photos -- is that reasonable?
MR. MARSH: They have had two different contractors in that
were going to get blueprints and plans, and that brought up -- and
supposedly -- I really believe the whole thing hinges on the person
that's buying the property getting the paperwork done so he can have
ownership of the property. And then I believe he has the paperwork
ready for the permit.
His attorney stated to me that he had papers drawn up and
everything to getting (sic) with the owner of the property, you know,
to do just that. So it's a matter of getting that done. So maybe this is
just the push to get things done and then they can get the permit.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Jean?
MS. RAWSON: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Based on what we see in these pictures,
if we issued an order stating that, you know, they had to get proper
permits and inspections and -- for any improvements and secure the
building, but prior to that we ordered them that, you know, they can't,
I don't want to say grant, but they must vacate that section of the
property until it comes up to code, can we do that? Since we have all
these open windows and I see wires hanging from the wall and open
boxes. I mean, it really is -- looks unsafe, just from the pictures. I
haven't been there, but --
MR. BOWIE: Well, there's been no -- nothing established that
any of these spaces are occupied. They may be.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Well, we want to make sure that they're
Page 36
January 27,2005
not.
MR. BOWIE: Perhaps we could incorporate into the order that
the premises be secured as to the windows and doors, be secured
against public entry.
MS. RAWSON: I don't think we can order people to vacate. I
mean, I don't really think we have that kind of power. I think you can
certainly order that the windows and the doors be secured while
they're getting the permits. But I don't believe we can evict people.
MR. MARSH: If I may say --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: If it's getting ready to be sold -- I mean,
we need to get something on the record, otherwise we're going to
change hands and we're going to have to start all over again.
MR. MARSH: If I may say, the fire inspector has been over
there, and he says he believes that the building would be able to pass
for permitting and plans and such.
The pictures that you see are from the beginning of when this
was first started, but since then, they have gone in and they have done
work in there. And they have covered up the open boxes and such and
been taking care of that, so there really isn't the hazard that you think
it may be. The only thing that possibly is a problem right now is the
open holes in the walls.
MR. KRAENBRING: Mr. Chairman, considering the amount of
time that's passed, is it prudent to put a time date or limit on when this
work should be completed by?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Well, we're giving him 30 days, if we
do anything, to get the proper permits and inspections. And I assume
when he gets the permits for these improvements coming with the
permits, would they not have to get a C.O. for the improvement?
MR. MARSH: Yes, sir.
MR. KRAENBRING: Within that 30-day period?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: That's what I asked John. He said it
could happen.
Page 37
January 27,2005
MR. MARSH: They should be able to get the permit and then
get the C.O. Because like I say, they have at times continued to work
and finished up the proj ect there, even though there was a stop work
order on it.
MR. PONTE: I would think we'd have a hazard and that the
order that we might make should be two parts: That is, secure the
building, block those windows, make sure the door is sealed. And that
to be done within the next 10 days, if not sooner.
MS. BARNETT: I have a question for Jean.
MS. RAWSON: Yes.
MS. BARNETT: If the building has not been permitted and it
hasn't got a C.O., then it can't technically have occupants, can it?
MS. RAWSON: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Well, but we -- they're not written up
for not having the building C.O.'d. It's they've made improvements
that aren't permitted or C.O.'d.
MS. RAWSON: Right.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: The structure's bigger than what we're
seeing, so that's two different things.
MS. BARNETT: Okay.
MR. BOWIE: I'd like to make this motion then. In the Case No.
2004-75, Board of County Commissioners versus Ralph W. and Jean
Taylor, that there be a finding that no permit has been obtained for
alteration of the structure or improvements to the property or the
obtaining of permits for electrical, plumbing, doors, windows or walls,
and that this violation be found to exist.
MS. BARNETT: Second.
MS. DUSEK: Violations of which sections?
MR. BOWIE: The stipulated Sections 2.7.6.1 and 2.7.6.5 of
county ordinance 91-102, as amended.
MS. DUSEK: The Collier County Land Development Code.
MR. BOWIE: Right.
Page 38
January 27,2005
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a --
MR. BOWIE: Only one that has that number.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second that in
fact a violation does exist. Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All those in favor, signify by saying
aye.
MR. BOWIE: Aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. HEMES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Order of the board -- I'm sorry, any
nos?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Order of the board?
MR. BOWIE: I'd like to make this motion: That the board order
the respondent to pay all operational costs incurred in the prosecution
of this case, and abate all violations by, number one, securing all
exterior openings in the structure against public entry or occupancy
within 10 days of this date, or a fine of $50 per day will be assessed
for each day that violation continues.
Number two, obtain permits for all alterations or improvements
within 30 days of this date, or a fine of $50 per day will be assessed
for each day that violation continues.
Two separate violations, two separate fines.
MR. PONTE: I will second that motion.
MS. DUSEK: Should we not include that they get the C.O.
within a certain amount of time? If they get the permits and it's not
C.O.'d, it's still a violation.
Page 39
January 27, 2005
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Isn't that a requirement of the permit?
MR. BOWIE: Isn't that stated in any permit?
MS. ARNOLD: Well, they would have, if they obtain a permit,
six months to obtain an inspection. So the permitting process goes on
and on until the inspections are requested and then a C.O. is obtained.
But if the board would desire that this -- the improvements be
done more expediently, then yes, you would probably want to
stipulate that they obtain a C.O. within a certain amount of time.
MR. BOWIE: But the mere fact they get a permit will give them,
by default, six months, correct?
MS. ARNOLD: Six months by default.
Without you saying get this done within so many days, they will
have six months to get an inspection. Not necessarily a C.O., an
inspection. And then once they obtain an inspection, they then are
granted another six months to go through -- so the permitting process
gives them a lot of time to obtain a C.O.
MS. BARNETT: Mr. Bowie, generally I think we usually do
include that after they get the permit, they have so many days to then
get the inspections and the final C. O. before we move to the second
half. I was curious if you would like to amend your motion to include
that.
MR. BOWIE: Well, I'd be happy to amend it further then that
they be required to get all inspections and certificate of occupancy for
the structure within 120 days -- I think would be reasonable -- 120
days of the date of the permit they secure, or again a fine of $50 per
day will be assessed for each day that violation continues. So that
would be a third violation set of fines.
MR. PONTE: Well, I second the amended motion.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any further discussion on the motion as
amended and seconded?
(No response).
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All those in favor, signify by saying
Page 40
.,--"
January 27,2005
aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
MR. BOWIE: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. HEMES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Thank you, Mr. Marsh.
MR. MARSH: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Yes, ma'am. Let's take 10 minutes. It's
10:34. Let's be back at 10:44, please.
(Brief recess.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay, we call the Code Enforcement
Board back to order, please.
Back to our public hearings. The next case being 2004-078, with
Richard Blocker.
MR. BONANNO: The code enforcement department has
provided an exhibit of -- excuse me, a packet of information to the
board that we request be entered as Exhibit A at this time, please.
MS. DUSEK: I make a motion that we accept the County's
Exhibit A.
MR. HEMES: I'll second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second to
accept the County's Exhibit A. All those in favor, signify by saying
aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
MR. BOWIE: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
Page 41
'___M__"··_U.'
January 27, 2005
MR. PONTE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. HEMES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
MS. PEREZ: Good morning. For the record, my name's Cristina
Perez, Collier County Code Enforcement investigator.
MR. BONANNO: I'm just going to read some stuff on the record
before you go, okay? Her first time.
MS. PEREZ: Everybody's looking at me. I thought that was my
clue.
MR. BONANNO: The violation is that of Sections 2.7.6.1,
2.7.6.5 of Ordinance 91-102, as amended, the Collier County Land
Development Code, and Sections 104.1.1, 104.1.3.5, 105.5, 106.1.2,
and 106.3.1 of the Florida Building Code.
The violation is described as an unpermitted shed structure in the
rear yard, utilized as a Laundromat, with operable washers and dryers
in a village residential zoned parcel.
The violation exists at 1421 Peach Street, Immokalee, Florida,
34142. The person in charge of that location is Richard Blocker.
The violation was first observed on December 15th, 2003. A
notice of violation was served on December 29th, 2003. The violation
was to be corrected by January 26th, 2004. A reinspection occurred
on December 21 st, 2004, and as of that date, the violation still
remained.
I will now turn it over to our eager investigator, Ms. Perez.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MS. PEREZ: Good morning. On December 15th of2003, I
initiated the case as a patrol case. While visiting surrounded areas on
pending cases that I had, I observed a woman drive towards the shed,
which had the front light on. She then entered and she remained
inside the shed for several minutes until coming out with a basket full
Page 42
January 27,2005
of clothes. I then presumed that the shed was being used as living
quarters.
I then made a thorough investigation on the property, which
resulted in finding that the shed was being used as a Laundromat with
multiple washers and dryers. No permits were found in our system or
in the property card.
And then on December 29th of2003, the notice of violation was
received by certified mail.
After numerous visits to the site and phone calls to the property
owner and the proposed contractor who was working on getting the
permit for him, I had no result. The permit has still not been obtained
and the violation still continues to remain.
MS. DUSEK: When did you say you posted the violation?
MS. PEREZ: The first day when I was on the case? It was on
December 15th, 2003.
MS. DUSEK: But after that, then you posted violation when?
MS. PEREZ: Well, I went ahead that same day, I, you know,
researched the property. I went onto the property and saw that it was
the -- that they were actually using it as a Laundromat. And on
December 29th, they signed for the green card, the property owner
signed for the green card, certified mail.
MR. PONTE: I take it this is coin operated, is it?
MS. PEREZ: Yes.
MR. BOWIE: Let me ask, other than this structure in which
these laundry facilities are located, is there any other structure on this
particular property? Is there a residence there as well?
MS. PEREZ: Yes, there is a mobile home, a single-wide mobile
home on the parcel.
MR. BOWIE: And is that where the respondents reside, in that
mobile home?
MS. PEREZ: The owner? No, it is a rental property.
MR. BOWIE: That's a rental.
Page 43
January 27, 2005
MS. PEREZ: This is a rental property, yes.
MR. HEMES: Is it registered as such with the county?
MS. PEREZ: Yes.
MR. HEMES: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Is there more than one rental unit on the
property?
MS. PEREZ: He owns that -- where the shed is located, he rents
that mobile home. And surrounding there there are other parcels that
also belong to him that they -- or to the property owners that they also
rent.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: And we're assuming that these other
trailers go to this shed to do their laundry?
MS. PEREZ: Yeah, I -- more than likely, yeah. I haven't -- I
didn't speak to the other properties, I just went towards this one. But
more than likely, they are multiple, so they probably do use them.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any further questions for the
investigator?
MR. PONTE: When you approached the owner, has (sic) he give
you any explanation or detail or what he might do to correct the
violation?
MS. PEREZ: He had a contractor that I've spoken with him as
well who said they were going to the county to get the permits, and
just every time I'd call, either -- when I would call the property owner,
Mr. Blocker, he'd tell me, you know, to talk to the contractor. I'd call
the contractor and he was always coming down to get the permit.
But in file in the computer system, they never applied for it.
MR. PONTE: And the contract is still on the job, as it were.
MS. PEREZ: (Nods head affirmatively.)
MR. PONTE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any other questions?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Thank you, Ms. Perez.
Page 44
January 27,2005
MS. BARNETT: I'd like to make a motion.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Finding of fact is --
MS. BARNETT: In the case, CEB Case No. 2004-078, Collier
County Board of County Commissioners versus Richard A. and Jewel
M. Blocker, that there is a violation. The violation is of Sections
2.7.6.1,2.7.6.5, of Ordinance No. 91-102, as amended in the Collier
County Land Development Code. And 104.1.1,104.1.3.5,105.5,
106.1.2, and 106.31 of the Florida Building Code.
Description of the violation is a non-permitted shed/structure in
the rear yard, utilized as a Laundromat and operable washers and
dryers in the village residential district.
MS. DUSEK: I second the motion.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay, we have a motion and a second
that in fact a violation does exist. Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All those in favor, signify by saying
aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
MR. BOWIE: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. HEMES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Order of the board.
Ms. Perez, you may sit down.
MS. PEREZ: Thank you.
MS. BARNETT: Michelle, I was looking at the recommendation
of the CEB, and I don't see any fines attached in regards to the
violations. Do you have any suggestions or does the enforcement
Page 45
January 27,2005
officer have any?
MS. PEREZ: It's my first packet. I don't know exactly. From
other cases they are saying that there is a long process within the
county. I guess it's taken a while for the permits to go through. So if
the board would be agree to do the 45 days for them to be able to get
the permit and the C.O., I would --
MS. ARNOLD: The question is how much per day after --
MS. PEREZ: Well, I would say $50 per day, if the board agrees
with that.
MR. BOWIE: I'd like to make a motion then in the case --
MR. HEMES: I have a question, before you go to your motion.
The Blockers are not here -- I just want to make that point -- to
represent themselves.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Mr. and Mrs. Blocker?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I didn't see them stand up before.
Go ahead, sir. Okay.
MR. BOWIE: Motion in Case No. 2004-078, that the board
order the respondents to pay all operational costs incurred in the
prosecution of the case and abate all violations by either, number one,
comply with all county codes, ordinances and state building code; by
obtaining, if obtainable, all permits, inspections and certificate of
completion required for the above described structure within 45 days
of the date of this hearing, or a fine of $50 per day will be levied for
each day this violation continues.
Or, second, to remove or demolish the offending structure,
including all material and related debris, obtaining a demolition permit
from this county for this purpose within 30 days and completing the
demolition within 30 days, or a fine of $50 per day will be assessed
for each day the violation continues.
MS. BARNETT: I'll second that.
MS. DUSEK: The only change I'd like to see is that we keep the
Page 46
January 27, 2005
days the same, so that they would have the choice within 45 days of
either demolishing or getting their permits.
MR. PONTE: I agree.
MR. LEFEBVRE: I agree with that.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Ray?
MR. BOWIE: No problem with that. I'll accept that, 45 days for
either alternative.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Sheri, you --
MS. BARNETT: I'll amend my --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have an amended motion and an
amended second. The 45 days will be in both places, either to obtain
all required permits, inspections and C ofC's (sic), or a permit to
remove and demolish the structure; $50 a day attached to each one.
Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All those in favor, signify by saying
aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
MR. BOWIE: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. HEMES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Next case is 2004-077. Martha Lee
Johnson?
MR. BONANNO: Actually, Mr. Chairman, that was the one that
was extended earlier today.
MS. RAWSON: That was continued.
MR. BONANNO: We're on to Case 2004-076 versus (sic) Wind
Page 47
"-.-.
January 27,2005
Dancer Air Boat Tours. And Joseph Hamilton is the owner.
Mr. Hamilton, are you present today?
(N 0 response.)
MR. BONANNO: I guess not.
The Code Enforcement Department has provided a packet of
information that we would ask be entered as Exhibit A at this time,
please.
MS. DUSEK: I make a motion that we accept the County's
Exhibit A.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second to
accept County's Exhibit A. All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
MR. BOWIE: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. HEMES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
MR. BONANNO: This is Case No. 2004-076, Board of County
Commissioners versus Wind Dancer Air Boat Tours, Joseph
Hamilton, owner.
The violations are that of Sections 1.5.6,2.5.12.1,2.5.12.4.9, and
2.5.13.1 of the Collier County Land Development Code, Ordinance
91-102, as amended.
The violation is described as the Wind Dancer Air Boat Tours
pole sign without required permit.
The violation exists at 20610 Tamiami Trail East, Naples,
Florida.
The person in charge of the location where the violation exists is
Page 48
-"-'-'"'-"-'''-''-'~~' .. -- '--'''-.",-_.,,,,,,.,,~_.,,,.-
January 27, 2005
Mr. Joseph Hamilton, owner.
The violation was first observed on March 23rd, 2004. A notice
of violation was served on August 27th, 2004. The violation was to be
corrected on or before September 7th, 2004.
A reinspection occurred on December 7th, 2004, and as of that
date, the violation still remained.
I will now turn the case over to Investigator Travis Snoderly.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MR. SNODERL Y: Good morning. Investigator Travis
Snoderly, Code Enforcement Sign Specialist with Collier County.
As you have already heard, on March 23rd, I made a site visit to
Wind Dancer Air Boat Tours at 20610 Tamiami East, on routine
patrol.
I discovered a pole sign at the subject that did not have a permit
number displayed -- as is required by Collier County ordinances --
advertising the air boat company operating business at that location up
until yesterday.
I conducted research and determined that while there is no valid
permit on that sign, a permit 2003021572 had been issued. However,
it expired without required inspections or certificates of occupancy on
the site.
On March 26th, 2004, a notice of violation was prepared and
served certified mail to the property owner, Joseph Hamilton. It was
returned undeliverable on April 9th, and subsequently personal service
was made the same day on Arlene Daniels, who identified herself as
the person in charge at the location.
A corrected notice of violation was then prepared and served on
August 27th to again Arlene Daniels, the person in charge of the Air
Boat Tours Corporation.
An extension was granted September 9th for seven days due to a
death in the owner's family. Contact was made on subsequent
occasions, which has yet to result in abatement of the violation.
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January 27, 2005
To day, the property owner also has made no further contact with
me regarding the violation.
A visit yesterday determined and confirmed that the violation
remains and no permit yet has been applied for.
And this is the photograph -- well, it's a little difficult to see there
-- as of yesterday . You should have a much better photograph in your
packets. But the sign remains, as you can see, as it did with the
photograph taken in May.
MR. BOWIE: Let me -- one question, please. It's noted here in
your report to us that there was previously a permit issued for a sign of
some type. Did this respondent pull that previous permit, the same
respondent?
MR. SNODERL Y: Yes, that is true. Actually, a contractor that
Mr. Hamilton had hired did pull a permit in 2003. No inspections or
C.O. was ever issued for that permit. And that is one of the reasons
why we provided so much time for the respondent to comply with our
request, as well.
MR. BOWIE: I just wanted to then confirm that it is possible for
them to obtain a sign permit for this parcel that is zoned conservation
use; is that correct?
MR. SNODERL Y: That is correct. There is a conditional use on
the parcel, which allows for the operation and any subsequent
accoutrements that they'd like to put there.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: The sign that exists, since they had a --
you say they had a permit but it wasn't--
MS. BARNETT: Inspected.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: -- inspected and signed off on, correct?
MR. SNODERL Y: Correct.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Does this sign meet the sign ordinance,
as it exists?
MR. SNODERL Y: That question is one that is a very valid
question. I have taken measurements of the sign and it measures
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January 27,2005
approximately 23 -- in excess of 23 feet tall.
As code enforcement's not involved directly with the process of
permitting signs, I would leave that type of decision to our folks that
are in sign review within the community development organization.
However, it is of my opinion that the sign could receive a permit, with
minor modifications being made.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. That's really where I was going.
MR. KRAENBRING: Is this business still in operation?
MR. SNODERL Y: Yes. As of yesterday, there were vehicles
coming and going. I was not on the respondent's property; I was
actually in the right-of-way. That's why I can't confirm that there was
any business being transacted at the distance that I was from the
property, though.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any other questions for the
investigator?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Thank you, sir.
First order of business is finding of fact that in fact a violation
does exist.
MS. DUSEK: I'll make a motion that in the case of the Board of
County Commissioners versus Wind Dancer Air Boat Tours, Mr.
Joseph Hamilton, that a violation does exist. The violation is of
Sections 1.5.6,2.5.12.1,2.5.12.4.9,2.5.13.1 of the Collier County
Land Development Code, Ordinance 91-102, as amended.
Description of the violation: Wind Dancer Air Boat Tours pole
sign without required permit.
MR. BOWIE: I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second that in
fact a violation does exist. Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All those in favor, signify by saying
aye.
Page 51
January 27,2005
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
MR. BOWIE: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. HEMES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Order of the board.
MR. BOWIE: I'd like to move that in Case No. 2004-076, Board
of County Commissioners versus Wind Dancer Air Boat Tours, Mr.
Joseph Hamilton, that the board order the respondent to pay all
operational costs incurred in the prosecution of this case, and abate all
violations by, number one, obtain permit for the subject pole sign, if
available, and all required inspections, including certificate of
completion; or, number two, remove the pole sign within 30 days of
the date of this hearing or a fine of $50 per day will be assessed for
each day the violation continues.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: What about the --
MR. BOWIE: I don't think we can do that. The other
recommendation here, I'm not incorporating into my motion. I'm a
little bit concerned that the second recommendation is something in
the nature almost of an injunction against possible future violations of
ordinances, and I don't think that it's proper or even within the
authority or the power of this board to issue or enjoin potential future
violations.
MS. ARNOLD: Could I have a question or clarification on your
motion ? Was there a time period associated with obtaining the
permit?
MR. BOWIE: Thirty days, either to obtain the permit through
certificate of completion or to remove the pole; 30 days for either
Page 52
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January 27,2005
alternative, or $50 per day.
MS. BARNETT: Mr. Bowie, in order to remove the pole, is he
going to have to have a demolition permit?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I would think so.
Is that not correct, Michelle?
MS. ARNOLD: Yes.
MR. BOWIE: I would amend that -- to stipulate that, to obtain a
demolition permit and complete the demolition and remove all debris
within that same time frame, as part of the second alternative here.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion on the floor.
MS. BARNETT: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We now have a second to the motion.
Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All those in favor, signify by saying
aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
MR. BOWIE: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. HEMES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Thank you, sir.
MR. SNODERL Y: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: That concludes the public hearings on
cases. We'll now go to our new business and request for imposition of
fines.
MS. ARNOLD: The first item is Board of County
Commissioners versus Glenn McGee, who is a new owner. We had a
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January 27, 2005
prior case against Rather Knighton. That particular case was heard on
September 23rd -- or 22nd; we've got two dates -- on September 23rd,
2004, and the board found a violation did exist.
The finding of facts and conclusion of law is attached for your
information.
The respondent in this case has complied with the board's order,
and we are at this time requesting that operational costs in the amount
of$480.32 be imposed.
MS. BARNETT: Michelle, I have a question for you. When I
was reading through the affidavit of compliance, it stated that the
reinspection was done on November 2nd, although our time line ended
October 23rd. And the fine is including that time frame. Was that
because the inspection wasn't called in prior to that, or was that just
because the inspector didn't get out there to reinspect? Or can you tell
me?
MS. ARNOLD: The question is whether or not we did the
reinspection on the 2nd of November?
MS. BARNETT: In other words, our time line that we said he
had to come into compliance was October 23rd.
MS. ARNOLD: Right.
MS. BARNETT: The reinspection was not done until November
2nd. And the fine is -- and it said at that time he was in compliance.
Do we know when he came into compliance? Was that when he
called it in or is that because we just didn't get back to reinspect?
MS. ARNOLD: I'm not really sure. I don't know. I'm asking for
fines between October 24th and November 2nd. I'm assuming that the
investigator went out on the date of compliance and seeing that there
wasn't compliance, then fines accrued through November 2nd.
MS. BARNETT: Maybe I can ask the respondent as to --
MS. ARNOLD: Right.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MR. ARWOOD: My name is Ralph Arwood. I hold a mortgage
Page 54
January 27, 2005
for Mr. McGee. He asked me to come and speak at this meeting.
Mr. McGee did comply with the board's order and it was done by
the date you requested.
MS. BARNETT: On the 23rd?
MR. ARWOOD: Correct.
MS. BARNETT: Does he have anything he can give me to
verify that, or did he do the work himself?
MR. ARWOOD: He did the work.
I think the board should note, the whole procedure started back in
April. You've been serving papers to a woman who's been dead for
eight years. I don't know who got those papers, but they weren't
coming to Mr. McGee. Mr. McGee became the owner of the property
in July of this year at a tax sale. Since taking over the property, he's
gone to great effort to improve the property. He's removed two
trailers from the property that were literally caving in, were definitely
a danger to people. He's also removed more than a dumpster load of
other garbage that was on the property.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Sir, we're only concerned with the
vehicle. It's nice that he's cleaning the property up, but we're only
interested in this particular vehicle, and that's why we need to make
our decision. So if you'll tell us about that.
Are you satisfied with his answer?
MS. BARNETT: Did he call for an inspection?
MR. ARWOOD: Yes.
MS. BARNETT: What day?
MR. ARWOOD: I'm sorry, do you remember the date?
He called when the vehicle was removed, but I can't give you an
exact date of that.
MS. ARNOLD: I don't know -- do you know who he called?
MR. ARWOOD: Mr. McGee doesn't have a phone. He had his
boss at Everglades City call the people listed on the paperwork, but I
can't tell you who he spoke to.
Page 55
January 27,2005
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: And what is it that Mr. McGee is
asking us?
MR. ARWOOD: He doesn't feel he should be fined or penalized.
He's complied with your request in as timely fashion as he could.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: So you're asking us to abate the $500
fine?
MR. ARWOOD: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay.
MR. BOWIE: We don't have the code inspector in this case here
today, do we, who could --
MS. ARNOLD: No, but I can give him a call.
MS. BARNETT: I'm just curious, because I have a question as to
whether or not -- if it was, you know, the fact that the county didn't get
out there to inspect it, then I don't think we should fine him for those
days, ifhe was in compliance. We don't know.
MS. ARNOLD: If you want to give me -- well, you know, I can
call him in five minutes or you can decide not to impose those fines.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I was going to say, rather than hold this
up, the board, based on what they've heard, can make a determination
whether they want to, you know, abate the fine portion altogether,
partially, or just leave it stand, rather than delay it any further.
MR. BOWIE: I think it's only 10 days, it's only $500, I think we
should give the respondent, especially since he's the new owner of the
property, the benefit of the doubt and that we should abate the fine
portion, the $500 and levy only the operational costs, $480.32, which
we cannot waive.
MR. ARWOOD: Why is that?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: By law we're not allowed to waive that.
We can waive fines, but we can't waive operational costs.
MS. BARNETT: Operational costs are the costs --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Like court costs, we can't waive that.
We have no power under the law to do that.
Page 56
January 27, 2005
MS. BARNETT: -- that it took the county to bring this to us and
what they have had to expend.
MR. ARWOOD: I don't really think that's fair to Mr. McGee.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: It may not be fair, but unfortunately we
don't have the power, so we can't help you. Okay? We can only do
part of it.
MR. BOWIE: When he purchased this property, he basically
steps into the shoes of the prior owner.
MR. ARWOOD: He had no way of knowing that. The prior
owner's been dead for eight years.
MR. BOWIE: No, no, it's not a matter of the prior owner's living
or dead. It's a matter that there was a lien on the property.
MR. ARWOOD: No, there was not a lien at that time, and there
was no way to find out that there was a lien.
MR. BOWIE: Even if there wasn't, he still steps into the shoes of
the prior owner. When you buy something, or you even buy it at a tax
sale, you're stepping into the shoes of the prior owner to some extent.
MS. ARNOLD: The county has the option of waiving those, and
we can release those --
MR. BOWIE: You would be amenable?
MS. ARNOLD: -- operational costs.
Sure.
MR. ARWOOD: Thank you.
MS. ARNOLD: So we're withdrawing our request to impose the
operational costs.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: That way we have nothing to consider.
MR. ARWOOD: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Thank you.
(At which time, Ms. Dusek exited the boardroom.)
MS. ARNOLD: Okay, the next item is Board of County
Commissioners versus Monroe Graham and Daisy Bell.
This case was heard on September 23rd, and the board found a
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January 27, 2005
violation did exist. You all have a copy of that order.
The respondent has failed to comply with the board's order, as
stated. An affidavit of noncompliance has been filed. And we are
now requesting that the board impose operational costs in the amount
of $483.83, plus fines running from October 23rd through -- October
24th through January 27th at a rate of $50 per day for a total of
$4,750, and a total fine amount, including operational costs, would be
$5,233.83.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: One little housekeeping. Cherie', make
note that Bobbie had to leave, and she left about three minutes ago, I
guess. Okay? And our second alternate will vote now, since we're
another member short.
Sorry to interrupt you, Michelle.
MS. BARNETT: I make a motion that we accept the
recommendations and go ahead and impose the fine of $5,233.83 in
operational costs.
MR. HEMES: I'll second that.
MS. ARNOLD: And they will continue to accrue until complied.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Is the respondent here?
MS. ARNOLD: No, not that I'm aware of.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second to
impose the fine and operational costs as requested. Any further
discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All those in favor, signify by saying
aye.
MR. BOWIE: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. KRAENBRING: Aye.
MR. HEMES: Aye.
Page 58
January 27,2005
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
Any opposed?
(No response.)
MS. ARNOLD: Okay, the next item is Board of County
Commissioners versus Avin Noel and Maria Chavez (sic). Chavanes.
This case was heard on August 26th, 2004; at which time a
violation was found. The respondent has failed to comply with the
board's requested order, and an affidavit of noncompliance has been
filed. The code enforcement department is now requesting that the
board impose the incurred operational costs in the amount of $623.83.
Additionally, fines in the amount of$7,150 for the period between
September 6th through January 27th. So the total amount today is of
$7,773.83, which will continue to accrue.
MS. BARNETT: I make a motion to go ahead and impose the
lien in the amount of$7,773.83 for fines and operational costs to
continue.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Second that.
MR. HEMES: Second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second to
impose the fines and costs, as requested by the county. Any further
discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All those in favor, signify by saying
aye.
MR. BOWIE: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. KRAENBRING: Aye.
MR. HEMES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
Page 59
January 27, 2005
MS. ARNOLD: Okay, the next item is Board of County
Commissioners versus Robert Pekar. Mr. Pekar is present.
The board did hear his case on October 28th, 2004, at which time
a violation was found. The respondent failed to comply with the time
periods noted in the board's order, so an affidavit of noncompliance
was filed.
The code enforcement department is at this time requesting
operational costs in the amount of $537.75 be imposed.
Additionally, the fines in the amount of $4,000 for the period
between November 8th, 2004 through December 18th, 2004 be
imposed.
As of today, I believe he, Mr. Pekar -- the property is in
compliance.
The respondent also has fines in the amount of $4,000 for
paragraph two of the board's order, for the period of November 28th
through January 7th, and additional fines in the amount of $3,500 for
the period of noncompliance for paragraph three of the board's order
for November 13th through December 18th.
And we -- the county had to actually abate a portion of that
violation, and we incurred the cost of $1 ,300.50. So all those fines
and costs to the county are being asked for imposition today. And the
totalof$13,387.75.
MR. HEMES: That was for the removal of the car on the jacks?
MS. ARNOLD: The lowering of the car off the jack.
MR. HEMES: That was left there in the driveway?
MS. ARNOLD: Yes. I believe there are tags now on that
vehicle, as well.
MR. PEKAR: There were tags already, and I did the work
myself --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Excuse me, sir, we need to swear you
in, if you're going to speak.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
Page 60
January 27, 2005
MR. PEKAR: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: And your name, please?
MR. PEKAR: I'm Bob Pekar.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay, sir. You had something to say,
sir?
MR. PEKAR: Yeah, I did the work on the car myself while they
were there. They showed up one morning and I had no idea they were
coming. So it's a car that's tough to get parts for, so I had to get one
out of a junkyard and I had it jacked up for a while. I put it down and
got it back. So I did that myself. And I spent the whole morning
helping them clean my yard up. I couldn't have done it myself, so in
one way I'm glad that they came, but I'm asking for you guys to help
me with the fines and abate those, and the -- you know, the operational
costs, too.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: What are you asking us to do, sir?
Waive everything? Is that what you're saying?
MR. PEKAR: Well, I realize the guy that came to do the work
has to be paid, so I'm willing to make a payment arrangement with
them to do that. But as far as the fines and the operational costs to the
county, I ask those to be abated.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. First the operational costs, we
have no power to waive that. That's up to the county. If they want to
do that, they'll have to tell us that.
As far as the costs they incurred in doing whatever they did,
again, if they want to tell us to waive that, that's fine.
And now the other is four, eight, $11,500 worth of fines you're
asking us to waive totally?
MR. PEKAR: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: And why?
MR. PEKAR: I wasn't able to -- one, I didn't know, okay? It
was a matter of cleaning the yard up. And I went out and spent all day
helping them do that. I just don't have the money to pay. I really
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January 27, 2005
don't. I went through a divorce about six years ago and, you know, I
did let my yard -- my lawnmower was broken, so I wasn't able to mow
the lawn, so I had to do it by hand a few times. They did --
MS. BARNETT: Robert, didn't you receive the information on
the fact that you were cited, and didn't a code enforcement officer
speak to you?
MR. PEKAR: I talked to somebody I think last June or so. And
then we had all those hurricanes and stuff. So it's been, you know,
difficult to try to -- I had a mechanic actually come to my house and
do the work on the car, okay? And--
MS. BARNETT: The concern we had on the car is there were
neighborhood children and the car was not really stable, even though
it was on ajack.
MR. PEKAR: Well, it went through --
MS. BARNETT: Someone could have gotten hurt.
MR. PEKAR: I had five different jacks under there, so it was
really stable. It went through all the hurricanes.
MS. BARNETT: A car on a jack is never stable. I don't care --
from the standpoint --
MR. BOWIE: Let's not -- we don't want to debate the violation
again. The violation's already been --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: The violation's over with. Let's talk
about why you want us to waive --
MS. BARNETT: But you were aware of --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: -- $11,000 --
MR. PEKAR: Huh?
MS. BARNETT: You were aware of the violation.
THE COURT REPORTER: Excuse me, one at a time, please.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Basically you're asking us to waive this
money because you say you can't pay it.
MR. PEKAR: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: It's not super to me, but I'm sorry.
Page 62
January 27,2005
MR. BOWIE: I'm a little concerned, too, you said you were
taken by surprise when a personnel from the county came out to
remove the car. And you were taken by surprise when personnel
came out to remove the weeds and cut the lawn. But you received a
copy, I assume, of the order of the board that told you that if this
wasn't done within a certain time frame --
MR. PEKAR: No, I didn't receive that.
MR. BOWIE: You don't get your mail?
MR. PEKAR: I didn't receive that.
MR. BOWIE: You didn't receive this?
MR. PEKAR: No.
MS. BARNETT: Jean?
MS. RAWSON: Yes.
MS. BARNETT: I'm sure it was mailed out, right?
MS. RAWSON: There's an affidavit of mailing.
MR. HEMES: 13th of January.
MR. BOWIE: And the mail did not get returned, so presumably
it stuck, in other words. That's your address and it got delivered there.
MR. PEKAR: I don't remember seeing it. I'm sorry.
MR. BOWIE: So I don't think there was any real element of
surprise, not reasonable element of surprise.
MS. BARNETT: That's what I was thinking, too.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay, so we have a request for Mr.
Pekar to basically waive not only the four, eight -- what did I say,
$11,500 worth of fines, but the $1,350 that the county spent abating
his violation. We can't touch the operational costs, so -- so we're up to
$12,850.
Michelle, any comment?
MS. ARNOLD: I'm sorry, we're not waiving the cost to the
county, because that was actually costs that the county actually had to
go out and pay a contractor.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I understand.
Page 63
January 27, 2005
MS. ARNOLD: And the operational cost is staying as well.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Right, okay.
The county's not willing to abate any of their costs, so we're
down to whether we want to do anything with the $11,500 worth of
fines.
MR. KRAENBRING: In the spirit of compromise, or is this --
MS. BARNETT: I haven't seen anything that --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: He's made his request. Basically he's
saying he wants us to waive the fines because he can't pay.
MR. PEKAR: Excuse me, I in good faith went out there and
worked with the people all day, you know, the whole morning.
MR. BOWIE: Only after they showed up.
MR. PEKAR: I didn't know they were coming.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: You have to remember, sir, that you
own this property and it got in this condition. It didn't happen over a
day, it happened over months. So obviously you weren't interested in
taking care of your property. Understand where we're coming from?
Your grass didn't grow, you know, three feet high overnight.
MR. PEKAR: I had the front mowed, but not all the way in the
back.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: There was other issues. I'm just trying
to tell you that this all didn't happen overnight. It happened over a
long period of time. You chose not to take care of your property. You
were cited for it. It came to us. We said fix it by such and such a date
or you're going to get fined. For whatever reason, that didn't happen.
Then the county had to go out. Then all of a sudden you got
interested. N ow you're asking us to waive all the money because you
don't have any money.
MS. ARNOLD: I would add, though, that Mr. Pekar did assist
with the abatement while the contractors were out there. I mean, he's
correct in that while the contractor was there lowering the vehicle, he
was out there to assist them. While they were cleaning his property,
Page 64
January 27,2005
he was out there to assist as well. Just to give the board some
information.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: He didn't do anything prior to that. I
guess my comment to my fellow board members is I'm not really
seeing any evidence that makes me want to waive any amounts of
these fines. I'm not convinced that it's in the best interest of the
county. I understand the man's problem, but he can sit down with the
county and work out a payment problem (sic). I'm sure they'd be
willing to do that, over whatever period of time it takes.
MR. BOWIE: In other words, there are payment plans,
installment --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: The county will work with you.
MR. BOWIE: -- payment plans available.
MR. PEKAR: It's a lot of money for a little bit of weeds. I
understand that. It's a little bit of overkill, I think. You know, I did
buy a new lawnmower, so I'm able to mow the lawn now. And the
vehicle always had a tag on it.
MR. LEFEBVRE: You have to understand our view: If it was
such a small problem, it should have been corrected way before when
you --
MR. PEKAR: Yeah, I know. And if I had known about it, I
would have.
MR. LEFEBVRE: But you must have received --
MR. PEKAR: You send me something in the mail; I don't go
through all -- I get a lot of junk mail, too. I'm sure you do.
MS. BARNETT: So when you --
MR. LEFEBVRE: When you walk out of your house every day,
you see --
MR. PEKAR: Make me pay $13,000 for some weeds? Please.
MR. LEFEBVRE: It should have been taken care of a while ago.
MR. PEKAR: I know it should have. I agree with that. But
that's still not -- that's not right. It really isn't. But I'm willing to pay
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January 27,2005
what the county paid out in their operational costs, okay? I think that's
fair, okay? And I'm sorry about my weeds. But had I known about it,
I would have done -- I spent all morning -- I could have been working,
I spent all morning and part of the afternoon with the people out there
doing the work. So I -- once I did find out about it, I did in good faith
help them to solve the problem.
MR. LEFEBVRE: I think the board is having a problem with
you -- with it being so long the way the situation was. And then all of
a sudden when you had to clean it up, it was finally cleaned up. When
we had to send out a crew. That's what we're having a problem with.
You have to understand our point of view.
MS. BARNETT: George, you've been awfully quiet.
MR. PONTE: Yes, because I -- it seems like deja vu. The
thought that I have is that we -- it's a tough case. However, the fine of
$100 a day was imposed after giving it very, very careful
consideration. There were -- there was major concern about the car on
jacks, no matter how stable you say it was. It didn't appear to be to us.
My other thought is, though, I certainly understand the hardship
that you would have in paying the fine. Everyone who comes before
us and finds themselves confronting a large fine has a hardship paying.
If this board were to back down and just reduce all fines, the orders of
this board would not be heeded at all. People would just know that
they could get away with it. And so those are my thoughts.
MS. BARNETT: You usually are one that weighs on the side of
let's go ahead and take it and look at it retrospectively and give the
benefit to the individual. That's why I wanted your input. I feel
strongly about it as you do in this case.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay, let's -- we need to move on. We
need to make a decision either to abate the fine entirely, partially or --
MR. LEFEBVRE: I make a motion.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: -- deny the request for any abatement.
MR. LEFEBVRE: I make a motion that we deny a request for
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January 27, 2005
any abatement and that the fines, as recommendation originally how
the board -- decided.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Be imposed.
MR. LEFEBVRE: -- be imposed.
MR. BOWIE: So that would be a lien for $13,387.75 combined
MR. LEFEBVRE: Yes, that's correct.
MR. BOWIE: -- for fines, operational and abatement cost?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Yes, that's correct.
MR. BOWIE: I second that.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second to deny
the request for abatement and move on and impose the fines as
requested by the county. Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All those in favor, signify by saying
aye.
MR. BOWIE: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. HEMES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
MR. KRAENBRING: No.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay, one, down at the end.
MR. PEKAR: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Thank you, sir.
Next item, Taylor Village.
MS. ARNOLD: The next item is Board of County
Commissioners versus Taylor Village Condo Association.
This matter was brought to the Code Enforcement Board on
November 29th, and we entered into a stipulated agreement at that
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January 27, 2005
time, which the board approved.
The respondents stipulated to pay operational costs in the amount
of $650. Additionally, the respondent has failed to meet the time
frames associated within that stipulated agreement, so staff is
requesting that the amount -- the fines in the amount of $3,600 for the
period between January 9th, 2005 through January 27th, 2005 be
imposed at this time for a total of $4,450.30.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: And you are, sir?
MR. FLOOD: Peter Flood, Your Honor, representing Taylor
Village Condominiums.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Are you their attorney?
MR. FLOOD: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay.
MR. FLOOD: If I may address the board in regards to this issue.
We believe we were in compliance with the -- which was
stipulated to. Following the stipulation and findings of fact, we had a
meeting, which Michelle attended. I have the contractor here who
attended it and so forth. There's an SDP in regards to this matter that
was originally thought to be the problem. When we arrived at that
meeting 10 days -- within the 10 days in compliance with the order, it
was discovered, and Michelle can also verify this, that all the
violations that Mr. Campbell had premised the findings of fact on and
all the problems, it wasn't the SDP that was -- had been submitted to
the county. There was an amended one.
So 90 percent, the majority of those violations, weren't even --
there weren't any violations at that point.
We all had a meeting. Michelle was there, I was there, people
were there. What was discussed was to bring it in compliance with the
original SDP, the amended SDP.
Mr. Bob Peterson from the county was there at the meeting. He
agreed to that. That's what we have attempted to do.
In addition to that meeting, Michelle was at the meeting, Mr.
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January 27, 2005
Campbell was concerned about some sinkholes. And we were
concerned about some sinkholes in the back of the property which was
resulting in some of the violation. Silting of the canal.
They have subsequently dug those sinkholes and discovered
tremendous amount of debris in the sinkholes.
Weare 10 days away from -- 10 days, approximately, away from
completing the -- correcting the problem at the site. We're asking the
board that based on what has occurred -- and I think Michelle can
enlighten the board also -- to either continue any discussion of fines
and costs, and/or abate any fines and costs, because we have been in
compliance with this -- the findings of fact. As we knew them at that
point in time. We tried to comply with them, but, you know, the
violations that Mr. Campbell kept bringing against us for a year, they
just weren't based upon the proper site plan.
Am I making myself clear?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Uh-huh.
MS. ARNOLD: I do want to --
MR. FLOOD: If I may, Michelle?
Michelle's been very gracious. Tom's been -- Tom and Michelle
and myself and everybody were surprised, and correct me if I'm
wrong, Michelle, at the meeting, we were all surprised that there was
an SDP that, for example, like the downspouts, Tom cited us for
downspouts, illegal downspouts. Well, they weren't illegal
downspouts, because they were on the amended SDP, which were
approved by the county.
So a majority of the things we were cited for were correct. There
were some things that needed to be modified.
I've got the contractor here who was the original contractor for
the developer. And most of the violations that remain or occurred
were minor in the effect that there were modifications done to the SD P
to bring them into compliance.
The major problem, and we were concerned about with, and we
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January 27, 2005
want to do a corrective measure, was the silting of the canal. I don't
know if everybody's familiar with this property. There's a silting
problem. Tom and I and Michelle and everybody discussed, and
correct me if I'm wrong, Tom wanted to -- Tom's not here today, but
Tom wanted those sink holes explored to determine what was causing
that silting of the canal. Well, we got into it, and these are the
problems we've discovered during this time frame.
And how many dumpsters have we removed, Don? Three
dumpsters full of debris. And we didn't want to impact the bank by
removing the rip-rap and things along those lines.
So we are trying to comply with what we agreed to. But what we
agreed to was based upon a false premise, based upon an SDP that was
Improper.
So we're trying to work with everybody. We've got no problem
with the operational costs. We're about 10 days away from
completing everything.
I talked to Bob Peterson yesterday. He basically agreed with
what we discussed at the meeting, that being that to just bring it in
compliance with the original SDP.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Michelle? Understanding what he said,
and you mayor may not have been there, recommendation to you to
consider before you say something.
Hearing this and that there may have been another SDP and so
on, so forth, might be a good move to withdraw this, see that this all
gets resolved and come back to us and say this is what it is next
month.
MS. ARNOLD: Well, what I was going to mention is that the
problem that brought us to this site to begin with was the silting, the
problem along the banks. And the area -- or the code that was cited
wasn't related to the SDP. I mean -- and obviously there was a
problem with the bank and why it was going into the canal.
We could -- if Mr. Flood would like -- I'm sorry, I drew a blank
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January 27,2005
there -- to argue, you know, SDP, whatever. The issues in that are --
were not in violation can be totally voided. But the fact still remains
that there was a violation with the bank construction and the rip-rap
that was there, and that portion of it has still not been complied with.
MS. BARNETT: I'm trying to remember the case, but I thought
some of it was blamed on the downspouts that were helping wash into.
And that's kind of what we were basing some of our decision on. And
that part he is saying was in the revised SDP for those downspouts,
correct?
MS. ARNOLD: Right, we were --
MS. BARNETT: That he was supposed to remove those and --
MR. FLOOD: Right. The--
MS. ARNOLD: The reason why they felt that the banks were
eroding may have been a contribution to the downspouts that were
added. In the SDP that we looked at at the time didn't have any
downspouts on it. Apparently the SDP that was amended did have
some downspouts on there.
MR. FLOOD: Right. And Michelle's correct, we were all
shocked when we went to the meeting that some -- getting back to the
rip-rap that needs to be removed, that rip-rap was not -- was installed
in accordance with the letter that we worked with Tom on October
31st with Bob Peterson of the county to try to stop the silting problem.
That's when that rip-rap was installed, correct?
This is Phoenix's developer.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MR. LANE: Jeff Lane, from Phoenix Associates.
MS. ARNOLD: Right, there was an agreement between Phoenix
and Bob Peterson, but obviously it didn't work, because there was still
erosion that was occurring along the bank.
MR. LANE: Yeah, the --
MS. ARNOLD: There was an attempt for some solution for the
erosion that was -- and they agreed to this rip-rap. But then because it
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January 27,2005
didn't work, Bob Peterson was asking that it be fixed. And when we
met with everyone, there was an agreement to provide Bob Peterson
and his staff over in waste -- in the water department, stormwater
department, a solution to correct the problem. And I don't believe any
of that was submitted to.
MR. LANE: My understanding, and I could be wrong, but my
understanding of the meeting that I attended with Mr. Flood and
yourself and several others is that the basis of the problem was to
replace whatever -- do whatever was necessary to bring the SDP into
compliance.
We had tried to address the issue on three different occasions;
one, vis-a-vis the rip-rap, which didn't work. The silting issue is still
one that needs to be addressed. But prior to doing that, when we went
after the sinkholes and found the debris, we had to pull that out, that
material out. That had to be refilled. Now we have to go in with
what's called a grab ball and pull the silt back up on the bank itself and
redefine the swale, which we're in the process of doing right now, and
probably will be finished with next week.
But what we didn't anticipate was what we found when we went
to fix the sink holes, which was apart from the issue to begin with.
But to get to the problem, we had to solve first things first, which none
of us knew was there. So that's how -- the problem is -- we've tried to
address the problem three different times, and now what we're doing
hopefully will work and the SDP will be in compliance and everyone
will be happy.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Basic question: Are you in compliance
with the site development -- or the stipulated agreement, yes or no?
MR. FLOOD: Right now?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: That was my question. I didn't give
you any time, I said are you in compliance. If you're in compliance,
then there's no fine. Are you in compliance?
MR. FLOOD: I would say no.
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January 27, 2005
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. So why shouldn't we impose
fines, if you're not in compliance with the agreement?
MR. FLOOD: Because the agreement itself is premised upon a
false assumption. You can't come in and -- on the stipulated facts,
when we were here and stipulated to the facts, Mr. Campbell for a
year has been coming in and telling us we're in violation of this site
water management plan.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay, let's stop a second, because item
one of your stipulated agreement says eliminate all illegal rip-rap and
swale repairs immediately and resolve canal bank, including silt
removal from canal within 10 days.
Is that done and was it done within 10 days?
MR. FLOOD: No.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: It doesn't say anything about site
development plan.
MR. FLOOD: No, it was not done.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: So you haven't met your agreement,
okay?
MR. FLOOD: But hold on a second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: So why should we waive the fine?
MR. FLOOD: We had a meeting within 10 days.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Isn't what it says. It says eliminate it
all.
MR. FLOOD: We had to have the meeting with the county in 10
days in order to address all the issues in regards to corrective measures
of finding the problem for the silting of the bank.
At that meeting, when Mr. Campbell and we were all there, he
wanted the sinkholes, he believed it was the sinkholes were the
problem of the silting of the canal.
At that meeting, the proper SDP came out and 90 percent of the
problems to 98 percent of the problems that he had been violating us
on weren't violations.
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January 27, 2005
You have to understand the sequence of events. We signed a
stipulation of facts based upon an improper premise, that being that we
weren't in compliance, the property wasn't in compliance with the
SDP. When we went to the meeting on the tenth day, we were in
compliance. There were a couple issues, the rip-rap, you are correct, I
don't mean to belabor that, you are correct. But the rip-rap was not
removed within the 10 days. We decided with Mr. Peterson to bring
the property into compliance with the original SDP, the amended one
that nobody knew about at that point. We'd been trying to correct the
sink whole problem that Mr. Campbell is aware of. And based on the
sinkhole problem, this is what we've developed. And we believed this
is causing the silting of the canal, okay? It's not the rip-rap in and of
itself.
And they've been working on the property for -- when did you
start working?
MR. LANE: 3rd of January.
MR. FLOOD: The 3rd of January.
MS. BARNETT: Cliff, just to point something out. I was
looking at our findings of facts and conclusions. On number three, if
you'll read that for me. I understand that they didn't do one and two
technically on time. But number three --
MS. ARNOLD: They actually did. They did two on time. They
did meet with the county, and at that meeting -- that's the meeting he
made reference to -- we all met. And at that meeting, we kind of
furthered that statement in three where they needed to supply us with
some written documentation as to what they were going to do; get
with Bob Peterson, how are we going to resolve that problem. And
that part of it I'm not aware of ever happened.
MR. FLOOD: Bob Peterson, you need to talk about -- I spoke
with Bob Peterson, trying to contact him for 10 days. His
understanding at the meeting was to bring it merely into compliance
with the original SDP.
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January 27, 2005
I asked him to come here today, and he said he couldn't come
here today, so --
MS. ARNOLD: Well, my recommendation is we hold off and
continue this until the next meeting --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Withdraw it?
MS. ARNOLD: I don't believe that we need to withdraw it,
because --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Well, if you're going to leave it to us,
then we've got to implement something.
MS. ARNOLD: Right. I--
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: You asked to us implement fines.
What do you recommend we implement?
MS. ARNOLD: My recommendation stands. You know, the fact
that the purpose -- why we were alerted to the site is not corrected.
The SDP, I'm willing to withdraw that whole section. But we
also cited them for county ordinance for the canal banks not being
constructed correctly and meeting the code. And that part of it is what
they're trying to fix now, and they hadn't complied with our
stipulation.
MS. BARNETT: Okay, Michelle, if you're willing to pull out the
section of the SDP part.
MS. ARNOLD: Section 3.1.1.
MS. BARNETT: Okay, if you pulled that out, in stipulation
number three, they're supposed to bring it into compliance, and then
number five said if the respondent does not comply with paragraph
three of the order within 40 days, then there will be a fine of $200 per
day. So do we need to adjust our fine?
MS. ARNOLD: Yes, I guess we would. Yes.
MS. BARNETT: Can you recalculate it for me, then?
MS. ARNOLD: We would have to --
MR. FLOOD: Can I say one thing? Michelle made a statement
that we built the wall on the canal. We never built the wall on the
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January 27,2005
canal. It was built by south water management. The only thing we
ever did was try and get the --
MS. ARNOLD: I said rip-rap.
MR. FLOOD: The rip-rap. No, what you said, we built the
canal. We did that in regards to the -- by Mr. Peterson and the county
to stop the silting problem. But that didn't stop the problem. The
silting problem is a result of the sinkholes.
MS. ARNOLD: The amount is now -- what I'm looking at is
item six, which was by complying and implementing proposed
remedies within 30 days, and that was at 250 per day. And so we
calculated from December 29th through the 27th, today, and that
would be 7,250.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: And this is based on what, item six?
MS. ARNOLD: Item four.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Item four.
MR. BOWIE: Six ties into four.
MS. ARNOLD: Well, it refers back to item four.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: So you're saying that on December
29th they got approval from the proj ect manager?
MS. ARNOLD: No, they had up until December 29th to get
approval from the project manager, and they didn't.
MS. BARNETT: So that initially --
MR. BOWIE: I think the recommendations you've made here in
your report to us are not founded on the right provision of the board's
order. You're asking for $200 a day in a certain time frame.
Apparently it's been acknowledged that that's not a violation and never
was, because --
MS. ARNOLD: Right, which was why --
MR. BOWIE: -- an incorrect SDP was utilized in formulating
that.
MS. ARNOLD: Which is why we're modifying --
MR. BOWIE: However, in the board's order there is also a
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January 27, 2005
reference here in paragraph six, which you just referenced --
MS. ARNOLD: Right.
MR. BOWIE: -- which ties into four, which in turns ties into
one, the matter of the illegal rip-rap and swale repairs, which hasn't
been done, they've acknowledged it hasn't been done, and that's a fine
of $250 a day.
MS. ARNOLD: And that's the number that I just calculated.
MR. BOWIE: Right.
MS. BARNETT: But that wasn't what was presented to us --
MS. ARNOLD: Right.
MS. BARNETT: -- that's not in here at all.
MS. ARNOLD: Right. That should have been in there, but it
wasn't.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: When you read the order, a lot of things
have to happen. I understand what they've said, but what I haven't
seen the county do yet or anybody agree, item four in the order said
that they have to implement -- complete and implement the remedies
within 30 days after receiving approval from the county project
manager. When did they get that approval?
MS. ARNOLD: They've never received approval.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. If they didn't ever receive that
approval from the County Manager, you can't implement any fines,
because the fine is based on complying with that sentence. So if you
never gave them approval, you can't fine them.
MS. ARNOLD: The fine's based on us first having a meeting,
and the meeting was held --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: No, the fine says that in item six that if
the respondent does not comply with paragraph four, which says they
have to get approval, after complying with paragraph four of this order
within 30 days of receiving the approval from the county project
manager, then there'll be a fine. If they've never received approval,
you can't implement a fine. You first have to give them approval and
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January 27,2005
then if they don't do it, they get fined. The two work together.
So just because they didn't do it by some date is immaterial. It's
not tied to a date. It's tied to 30 days after receiving approval. If you've
never given me approval, there's nothing, zero. You can't fine them
for something you didn't do. It says you have to give them the
approval, then 30 days later, if they don't do it, they get fined. So you
need to find out why the county project manager, whoever that is,
because that was part of --
MS. ARNOLD: Because nothing was submitted. I've indicated
that, there was nothing submitted.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. Then we go down to --
MS. ARNOLD: You can't approve something we don't have.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Let's go up to number five. Number
five, which is the $200 a day fine, says that if respondent doesn't
comply with paragraph three -- paragraph three is they have to submit
the written proposal to bring the property into compliance. Did they
ever submit that?
MS. ARNOLD: No.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. Then that part of the order with
the fine, you can do something about.
MS. ARNOLD: No, because it's related back to the --
MR. BOWIE: Well, this is a confused morass, admittedly. The
way this order is written is frankly poor. But what we're hearing is
that the paragraph three shown here is simply not applicable as an
element of the violation any longer. Plus it's since been discovered
that the items cited here are not in fact in violation of the correct SDP.
So there was no violation to begin with.
MS. ARNOLD: Well, the -- it's the same SDP number, but it's
been -- it has since been amended. And the map that was brought, or
the diagram that was brought to this board was the earlier SDP, not the
amended SDP.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay, are they in compliance with the
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January 27,2005
amended SDP? Yes or no.
MS. ARNOLD: With respect to the canal banks, no.
MR. BOWIE: Unfortunately, the way this order is written,
there's no penalty for doing anything without the canal banks or the
rip-rap, as I read it.
MS. ARNOLD: Right, there's no penalty associated with one or
two.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: And that's one of the problems, in
somebody writing a stipulated agreement and getting us to approve it,
that when you leave things out, you pay the price.
So basically, as Mr. Bowie says, I'm -- there's nothing to impose
a fine of, other than items four and six, which there's no fine because
nobody's done anything yet. So until they do it, four and six are just
hanging out there forever.
The only thing we can impose is the operational costs and, you
know, we can impose them right now and they'll just continue to run
because this isn't resolved yet.
MR. BOWIE: I would concur with that.
MR. HEMES: Would it not be true that the respondent has made
a clear effort to get this situation under control and that therefore we
should continue this matter, just giving the operational costs --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Well, I mean, that's the only thing we
can impose at this time is the operational costs, and they'll just
continue until the thing is done.
MR. FLOOD: Can I say something?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Sure.
MR. FLOOD: You know, Tom and Michelle have been great to
work with. This is an unfortunate situation for my client. Taylor
Village has come in from the earlier development. We want to make
it right.
The problem was in discovering where the problem is coming
from. I don't know if I'm making myself clear.
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January 27,2005
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Yeah.
MR. FLOOD: The problems that we originally thought in the
findings of fact are were in fact not the problems.
This is the problem, as Tom correctly pointed out. Correct,
Tom? Tom pointed out that he thought that the sinkholes were the
problem with the silting. When we got into the sinkhole problem, it
became a bigger problem than any of us realized was occurring.
And we're not sitting here in front of people saying hey, we're not
-- we'll pay the operational costs, we have no problem with it. We're
trying to do everything in our power to get this corrected and get out
of your hair.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We understand that. We're just saying
other than operational costs, which you're going to have to pay
anyway, because we can't waive those, there's nothing for us to
impose. So we're not having a problem with what you're doing, and
we understand that --
MS. BARNETT: Because you have to submit something to the
county to get approval.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All we're saying is we can only impose
one thing right now, which is the operational costs, and they'll keep
running until you're all done. And at that time, whatever the amount
is, you'll have to pay that amount.
And if there's any fine, it hasn't started yet because the county
needs to do something.
MR. FLOOD: We're just all trying to get along.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I understand. But, you know, we're
being asked to do something we can't do.
MR. FLOOD: Michelle's been great, Tom's been great. We're
all trying to get along and get it resolved.
MR. BOWIE: I'd like to move that at this point, given the
constraints of this order and what's been discovered since, that only
the operational costs be imposed.
Page 80
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",-,~".'.-.'----'"
January 27,2005
MR. LEFEBVRE: I second that motion.
MR. PONTE: I second that motion.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second to
impose the operational costs. That will continue to run until the
completion of the case.
Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All those in favor, signify by saying
aye.
MR. BOWIE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. KRAENBRING: Aye.
MR. HEMES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Thank you, gentlemen.
MR. FLOOD: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Last item, Seven Stores, Ltd.
MS. ARNOLD: Yeah, this item was heard on July 22nd, 2004,
and at the time a stipulated agreement was approved by the board.
Respondent was ordered to pay operational costs in the amount of
$1,700 -- $1,076.25.
The respondent failed to comply with the order, and there was an
affidavit of noncompliance recorded. The Code Enforcement Board
department is now asking that operational costs in the amount of
$1,076.25 be imposed, not 230, and --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: What was the new amount, Michelle?
I'm sorry.
MS. ARNOLD: $1,076.25.
Page 81
January 27,2005
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Thank you.
MR. HEMES: I'd like to move that we accept the--
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: And there's no fine, correct?
MS. ARNOLD: There are fines, but I'm just making sure that
they are the right ones.
Yes, from October 22nd through January 27th at a rate of $25 per
day, that amount is 2,425. So the total amount should be $3,501.25.
MR. HEMES: I move that we accept the code enforcement's
department on Case No. 2004-035, Board of County Commissioners
versus Seven Stores, Ltd. and the Circle K Corporation, and Michael
Martin, CPA, as registered agent.
The fines are operational costs of $200.30 --
MS. ARNOLD: No, that's not --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: It's amended. We changed that.
MS. ARNOLD: $1,076.25.
MR. HEMES: Total amount of the fine is now $3,501.25.
MR. BOWIE: I second that.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second to
impose the operational and fine costs, as requested by the county.
Any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All those in favor, signify by saying
aye.
MR. BOWIE: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. KRAENBRING: Aye.
MR. HEMES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
Any opposed?
(No response.)
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January 27, 2005
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay, that finishes the imposition of
fines.
We have a request for foreclosure.
MS. ARNOLD: Yes, that is the Board of County Commissioners
versus Robert Lockhart. That was CEB Case No. 2004-026. We are
requesting that we forward to the county attorney's office to address --
MR. BOWIE: I move that we forward to the county attorney's
office a request that foreclosure on the code enforcement lien be
commenced in the case of Board of County Commissioners versus
Robert Lockhart, Case No. 2004-026.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Do I hear a second?
MR. PONTE: I'll second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second to
forward Case 2004-026 to the county attorney's office for foreclosure.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
MR. BOWIE: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. KRAENBRING: Aye.
MR. HEMES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(N 0 response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay, next item, old business. No old
business. We have a quarterly report from the county attorney's office
on our liens and foreclosures.
MS. ARNOLD: Yes, Jeff Klatzkow is here to present that report
to you.
MR. KLATZKOW: For the record, Jeff Klatzkow, assistant
county attorney.
Well, this is the first meeting, January of 2005, so I guess we'll
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talk about last year.
Last year the county attorney's office disposed of approximately
25 cases that were sent our way, collecting total fines of
approximately $51,200.
Year to date, we've disposed of approximately four cases,
collecting approximately $15,000 in open fines or operational costs.
The way it's working is I guess we're averaging about two cases a
month from you and we're pretty much disposing two cases a month.
Some of these cases we're collecting fines, others, the liens are
remaining on the property because they're homesteaded property with
people with limited resources, so there's no point sending them to
collections, and we'll just wait to the day that they actually sell the
house.
I'm willing to take any questions you might have.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Maybe I just need a little education,
Jeff. On some of these items, in reading through your report -- which
is very good, thank you -- a couple of them just caught my attention
that maybe I just don't understand, so --
MR. KLATZKOW: Sure.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We say -- where we have like
Higgenbothom, they filed bankruptcy and did so on and so forth. And
then there was another one about -- I think it says there's a -- property
was sold, and so on and so forth, but there was a big second mortgage
and all that. Aren't we under an ordinance amendment? Didn't we
move our position to a superior position where, you know, we're kind
of like right up there with the tax people?
MR. KLATZKOW: No, we're inferior.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Well, that's not what I remember from
Ordinance 99-26.
MR. KLATZKOW: We're inferior liens on these. We just are.
A mortgage holder will take precedence on us unless our lien is
recorded first in time. We just are.
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January 27, 2005
There are other ordinances in the county that are superior. I think
water and sewer fall there. But my understanding is that code
enforcement liens are not superior.
MR. BOWIE: I thought there is a provision in the Florida
statutes that allows counties as a matter of local option to enact an
ordinance that does give super priority status to code enforcement
liens and makes them co-equal to real estate taxes and therefore
superior to any mortgage lien, whether recorded prior to or subsequent
to. And I don't know how our liens are being wiped out by these
lender foreclosures statutorily. I don't see how that's happening.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Jean, if you remember way back, we
brought this up. In fact, I think I was the one that brought it up, and--
MS. RAWSON: Yeah, we've had this discussion before.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Yeah. And we asked -- oh, I can't
remember the young lady's name that works in the attorney's office.
MS. ARNOLD: I think it was Heidi Ashton that did that at that
time.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Was it Heidi? That's not the name I'm
remembering.
But anyway, we asked about could we not move our position up,
and it was yes, we could. We would have to go to the state and ask
them if we could do that. And the board said gee, would you do that,
and that was done.
And then there was an amendment to the code enforcement
ordinance, and it stated that we were now placed in a superior
position. That's where I'm getting confused as to why aren't we.
MR. KLATZKOW: I will look into that, and your next meeting I
will give you a definitive answer.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: And I think, unless I missed it, I wrote
down 99-26 was the ordinance, and it changed Section 11 to put us in
a superior position.
So when I was reading through these I kept thinking gee, how did
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January 27, 2005
we -- maybe I'm not -- maybe I don't have the latest ordinance, or --
that's why I wanted to ask you.
MR. KLATZKOW: I will double check.
MS. ARNOLD: I actually have it.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Did we get knocked out or something?
Because we fought pretty hard to get that done. Because we didn't
want these fines to just be waived.
MR. KLATZKOW: I will double check and--
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: That's fine.
MR. KLATZKOW: -- next meeting I will give an answer.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I thought maybe I missed something,
and that's why I wanted to ask you the question.
MR. KLATZKOW: Maybe I missed something. You know, it's
possible.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: That's okay, it's not a problem.
The other question I had was on Houston, Unlimited. I
understand the property is homesteaded and there were no -- the
fellow took it out of his company's name and transferred it to himself
and so on and so forth. But under the Florida statutes, when you sell a
property or transfer it and all that, you're supposed to do certain things
to notify that owner that there's a pending -- all these things are
pending. And if you don't do that, that's what the statute basically
says is fraud.
So we're saying, you know, gee, this guy doesn't have
everything. But if he didn't do all these things he was supposed to do
and he this just to get away from paying you folks, let's do something
else to him.
MR. KLATZKOW: If I've got a homesteaded property with
somebody with no assets --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: No, I mean, he took it out of his
company.
MR. KLATZKOW: I understand that. But at the end of the day
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January 27, 2005
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: And--
MR. KLATZKOW: -- at the end of the day he's living there and
he has no money. Now, a year from now, two years from now may be
a different story. But that's my understanding of what's happened
there.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. And then on the first page we
talk about Fernandez and it says we have this amount it says needs to
be recorded. I thought all these liens were recorded automatically.
Are you telling me now that they're not recorded?
MS. RAWSON: All of our orders are recorded.
MR. KLATZKOW: Your orders are recorded. Sometimes they
need to be amended because there's an error in the order. There was
an error in this order that needs to be amended. We didn't go through it
because at the time we thought we were going to get collections
anyway. That fell through. So at this point in time we need to go
back and amend the record.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. I mean, we can't amend
something if we don't know what we're supposed to do. So now that
you explained that, I understand.
MS. ARNOLD: Do we need to amend the order or record the
amended order?
MR. KLATZKOW: We need to record the amended order.
MR. BOWIE: Couple of situations here I note here, too, where
while the respondent may have been homesteaded on the particular
property where the violation occurred, there's some notations here
where that same owner owns other property which is not
homesteaded, and I'm wondering why we're not foreclosing on that.
F or example, Lopez. Property may be homesteaded, but also
owns another vacant parcel. There's one of them. There's another
apparently where mail sent to the homesteaded address was returned
and the county was able to ascertain -- apparently the property owner
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January 27, 2005
had moved, had a new home address, in which case he abandoned that
property as his homestead. Go after him, it's abandonment. He's not
living there.
MR. KLA TZKOW: Some of these cases are cleaner than others,
and those cases are more apt to get foreclosed on. Other cases I would
say had hair on them, in which case, I'd just as soon leave the lien on
the parcel for a while.
My expectation, the way real estate moves in this county, is that
as people sell these things, these liens get paid off anyway. So if I've
got a -- if I've got a particular case that has a little hair on it, I'd just as
soon wait to see -- a year or two to see what happens and they tend to
resolve themselves that way.
MR. BOWIE: But my concern about the philosophy of waiting
is that it's all well and good if the next owner of the property doesn't
homestead it while the lien's there and it certainly can be foreclosed.
But if the current owner is homesteaded and he sells it and the next
owner homesteads it, you've got the same problem.
MR. KLATZKOW: I understand. What I'm saying is if I've got
a case that's entirely clean, I'm moving here with a foreclosure. If I've
got other cases that I'll just say has a little hair on it, in those cases I'm
waiting.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: It was a great report, Jeff, thank you
very much.
MR. KLATZKOW: You're welcome.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Next is case -- comment, 2004-046,
Petruzzi.
MS. ARNOLD: Yes. Mr. Petruzzi is requesting to speak to the
board. He feels that -- this case was heard by the board in November.
Mr. Petruzzi was not present at that hearing. He feels that he didn't
get adequate notice. This is a property off of Bayshore Drive. The
stilted mobile home and litter and debris are amongst -- are around the
property. And you all ordered that the process server issue the notice
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January 27, 2005
-- or the order for this property.
Mr. Petruzzi did not get his order within a timely fashion, or
within the time frame that the board requested that it be delivered.
The process server failed to deliver it timely. He didn't deliver it until
December 23rd, I believe, which was almost a month after your
hearing. And so -- but the reason why Mr. Petruzzi's here, I think, is
because of the notice of hearing. But I just wanted --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Well, I mean, for us to rehear a case
and we have no information, I mean, we'd all be sitting here blind.
MS. ARNOLD: No, I'm not ask --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: And that ain't going to happen.
MS. ARNOLD: I don't think he's asking to rehear it. He just has
some comments, and we're giving him an opportunity to speak.
MR. BOWIE: I suppose his recourse would be to appeal the
order of the board.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Yeah, and there's a time limit to do all
that stuff. So, I mean, what I don't want to do, Michelle is -- and I
understand he's here, is I don't want the board to sit here and all of a
sudden have an influx of people that could just show up and say gee,
I'd like to make a comment.
If you want to appeal our decision, there's a way to do that. If
you want to make just a general comment, then -- I mean, we could be
flooded with people who just want to come in and say we don't like
what you did or we did like it or I want another chance. You
understand what I'm trying to say?
MS. ARNOLD: I understand --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Jean, give us some help here. I mean,
I'm --
MS. RAWSON: I don't remember the date of those orders.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I don't either.
MS. RAWSON: This is 30 days.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I don't have anything.
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January 27, 2005
MS. RAWSON: He may be past the time to appeal.
MS. ARNOLD: He has passed the time.
MS. RAWSON: I think so.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: You this we did this at our November
hearing?
MS. ARNOLD: Yes, he did.
MS. RAWSON: But his time for appeal is --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: November, December, January. It's
gone.
MS. ARNOLD: Mr. Petruzzi did not say he is here to appeal
your record. Obviously it wouldn't be the right venue for him to
appeal. He has requested time to speak to the board, so I put him on
the agenda to comment. I don't know what he's going to comment
about so--
,
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: What's the pleasure of the board?
MS. BARNETT: He's here.
MR. PONTE: We don't know what he's going to comment about.
The agenda should have an item, not just be open-ended, in my mind.
We ought to at least know what he's talking about.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I think so. If the board wants to hear
him, it's up to the board.
MS. BARNETT: Cliff, why don't we hear him with a time
frame?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Make a motion.
MS. BARNETT: I make a motion that we hear him, give him
five minutes to speak.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Please understand that when we do this,
you're subject to any and everybody that we have a case on coming in
to do the same thing. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just
saying, when you set a precedence, we open ourselves up to have this
happen, and --
MS. BARNETT: Well, let me ask Jean this: Ifwe don't let him
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January 27, 2005
speak, Jean, are we in violation of his due process?
MS. RAWSON: Well, you're probably not in violation of his due
process rights, but, you know, I don't -- he's here, he's been waiting all
day, he's on the agenda. If you put a time limit on it, I don't see any
problem with his getting to have his say. From a legal standpoint, it's
probably not going to make any difference.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion to let Mr. Petruzzi
speak for a maximum of five minutes. Is there a second?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: No second. That motion fails. Any
additional motion to -- regarding Mr. Petruzzi? Shorter period of time
or -- none.
MS. BARNETT: I don't think it would behoove me to do it.
Nobody's willing to step up to back me, so -- I think it's rude of us not
to --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Why don't we give him three minutes.
Let's cut the time down. He's here--
MR. PONTE: If every --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I understand.
MR. PONTE: If all of the other arguments that you put forward
are valid, whether it's 30 seconds, three minutes, five minutes or 10
minutes --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I understand. I'm just throwing out
options. If it's no, it's no. That's fine.
MS. BARNETT: My concern is he contacted Michelle, he asked
for it, he was put on the agenda, and now we're being rude to him in
not letting him speak.
MR. PONTE: I don't know what he wants to talk about.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Well, we didn't know what it was. We
didn't know he was here. It doesn't say that. It just says a case. We
don't know on the agenda whether that's -- Michelle wants to tell us
something or say that it went south, so --
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January 27, 2005
MR. BOWIE: And there are other provisions within our rules
which allow for a petition for a rehearing, a petition for abatement.
You could bring all kinds of petitions and requests. I don't see where
this respondent has brought anything within the rubrics of those other
appeal procedures.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Yeah, there's forms he could fill out,
you know, about if he doesn't like the fines, or he can write a letter to
us and say he didn't like what we did or whatever.
I understand that he's waited. And, you know, we apologize for
that, since we didn't know what it was. But we are concerned with, as
a couple of us have stated, setting a precedence where people can just
call in, and we don't know what's going on and then all of a sudden
we've got to give everybody three or five minutes, and we have no
information in front of us and not knowing what they want to talk
about. We really don't have a way to respond other than sitting here
saying okay. I mean, I think that's wrong for us to do, to be caught
blind-sided by somebody talking about something we know nothing
about.
MS. BARNETT: Well, Cliff, shouldn't we address that for future
situations in our bylaws --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Yes.
MS. BARNETT: -- and go ahead and allow this gentleman to
speak, seeing as he has sat here all day?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: That's up to the board. And right now
they're not willing to do that, so --
MR. BOWIE: Well, I'd like to move that just in a case of
exceptional circumstance, without it being deemed to have any kind of
precedential value or impact, that we allow this particular respondent a
period of perhaps two minutes to state a case.
MR. PONTE: I think it establishes a very dangerous precedent.
We must know what the agenda items are. To just have an open door
item on an agenda --
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January 27, 2005
MR. PETRUZZI: No sense me staying here listening to this.
MR. PONTE: -- makes no sense whatsoever and is a very
dangerous precedent.
MR. LEFEBVRE: I think it's resolved.
MR. BOWIE: I think the petitioner has withdrawn his request.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Whatever.
The next item under comments was rules and regulations.
Everybody signed them except Albert, who isn't here, so you can issue
them as is, so they're not -- and the next item at our March meeting,
everybody's reminded that's when we elect our new officers, new chair
and vice chair. People eligible for that are our full-time -- I don't want
to say full-time, wrong word. Our regular members. Trying to look
for a word. There are seven of us.
But in voting, all members have the right to vote, including the
two alternates. But only members who are our regular members can
hold the two offices. So think about it and we take nominations from
the floor in March and then we vote. You know, we do everything in
the public, so no big secrets. And our next meeting is February 24th
here.
MS. BARNETT: Unless I hear from the county, I won't be here,
because my tenure is up.
MS. ARNOLD: Well, I was going to mention that a couple
offices are -- the terms have expired, but of course if the interest is still
there, you can --
MS. BARNETT: I reapplied, but I haven't heard.
MS. ARNOLD: -- resubmit an application.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: And who are our two members? It was
Sheri and Albert?
MS. ARNOLD: I believe it's Albert.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. Sheri said she's reapplied, so--
MS. ARNOLD: Yeah. And the alternates have an opportunity to
apply for those --
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January 27, 2005
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Yeah, since there is an open position of
a regular member, even though it's Albert, and we all like him, you
two alternates can reapply to move up. You just not -- it's not
automatic. You have to reapply. So you have the opportunity to do
that and be considered, along with Albert, if he so chooses.
Okay. Next meeting, February 24th. Anything else?
MR. PONTE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Yes, sir.
MR. PONTE: Under comments. I'd just like to compliment
Leonardo for putting together the packet in the new format. I found
that they're easy to use, very comprehensive, and I appreciate all the
extra effort and the thought that went into creating this new form.
MR. BOWIE: I'd like to second that.
MR. HEMES: I'll third it.
MR. BONANNO: Thank you all very much. I just want to
thank actually the code enforcement investigative staff. Since I've
been sitting here assisting you all in Ms. Hilton's absence, they've
been very accommodating with some new procedures our office has,
so a lot of the things you do see are a combination of my work and
mostly theirs. So the credit is due to them as well. Thank you very
much, though.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: If that's all-- and we can't help you
with a raise.
MS. BARNETT: I make a motion to adjourn.
MR. HEMES: I'll second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion to adjourn and a
second. Anything else?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All those in favor?
MR. BOWIE: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
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January 27, 2005
MR. PONTE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. KRAENBRING: Aye.
MR. HEMES: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Thank you all.
******
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 12:32 p.m.
CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD
CLIFFORD FLEGAL, CHAIRMAN
Transcript prepared on behalf of Gregory Court Reporting Service,
Inc., by Cherie' R. Nottingham.
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