BCC Minutes 10/04/2004 J (w/Naples City Council)
October 4, 2004
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE NAPLES CITY
COUNCIL AND THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS,
COLLIER COUNTY
Naples, Florida, October 4, 2004
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Naples City Council and the
Board of County Commissioners, Collier County, having conducted
business herein, met on this date at I :30 PM the City Council Chamber, 735
Eight Street South, Naples, FL with the following people present:
CHAIRMAN:
Commissioner Donna Fiala
Commissioner Fred W. Coyle
Commissioner Frank Halas
Commissioner Tom Henning
ALSO PRESENT:
Bill Barnett
Tamela Wiseman
William MacIlvaine
Johnny Nocera
Clark Russell
John F. Sorey III
Penny Taylor
Page 1
Agenda
Naples City Council
Board of County Commissioners, Collier County
City Council Chamber, 735 Eighth Street South, Naples, Florida
City of Naples
Mayor: Bill Barnett
Vice Mayor: Tamela Wiseman
City Council: William :\lacIlvaine, Johnny Nocera, Clark Russell, John F. Sorey, III, Penny Taylor
City Attorney: Robert D. Pritt. City Clerk: Tara A. ;'\/orman . Citv Manager: Dr. Robert E. Lee
Collier County
Chairman: Donna Fiala
Vice Chairman: Fred W. Coyle
Commissioners, Jim Coletta, Frank Halas, Tom Henning
County Manager: Jim Mudd. County Attornev: David C. Weigel
Welcome to today's City Council meeting. If you wish to address the Council regarding an item listed on this agenda. please
complete a registration form at the rear of the room and place it in the Speaker Request Box located on the Council dais prior
to consideration of that item. We ask that speakers limit their comments to 5 minutes and that large groups Ilame a
spokesperson whenever possible. Thank you for your interest and participation in City government.
Joint Meeting
Monday, October 4, 2004
1:30 p.m.
All proposed ordinances and information on other items listed below, which have been provided in
advance of this meeting, may be inspected in the office of the City Clerk, Room B, City Hall, or at the
Collier County Public Library Research Section, 650 Central Avenue. See also City of Naples home
page http://www.naplesgov.com or call the City Clerk's Office, 213-1015. All written, audio-visual
and other materials presented to the City Council in conjunction with deliberations during this
meeting will become the property of the City of :"Japles and will be retained by the City Clerk.
I.
Roll call
Invocation and Pledge of Allegiance
Set agenda (add or remove items)
Discussion of Vessel Speed Ordinance
Public Comment
Adjourn
,
..,
.).
4.
5.
6.
NOTICE
Formal action may be taken on any item discussed or added to this agenda. Any person who decides to appe:Jl any
decision made by the City Council with respect to any matter considered at this meeting (or hearing) will need a
record of the proceedings and may need to ensure that a verbatim recOl'd of the proceeding is made, which record
includes the testimony and evidence upon which the appeal is to be heard. Any person with a disability requiring
auxilial'y aids and services for this meeting may call the City Clerk's Office at 213-1015 with requests at least two
business days before the meeting date.
October 4, 2004
1. Roll Call
Roll call was taken.
2. Invocation and Pledge of Allegiance
The invocation was given by County Manager Jim Mudd, followed by the
Pledge of Allegiance.
3. Set Agenda
A motion was made to set the agenda and seconded. The motion carried 11-
O.
Ms. Fiala expressed her gratitude to the attendees for their presence at this
meeting and the previous meeting regarding the overpass.
4. Discussion of Vessel Speed Ordinance
Mr. Lee introduced Mr. David Likens who will be giving a presentation
specifically on the background and facts regarding the Vessel Speed
Ordinance.
Mr. Likens, Community Services Director, presented a summary of
information.
. The City has been regulating vessel speed in Naples for many years
· The last time new rules were established was in 1994
· On June 16, 2004 a change in ordinance was introduced that reduced the
maximum speed between markers 26 and 21 from 30 mph to 20mph.
This would be in effect 7 days a week.
. The existing speed zones were illustrated on a visual display.
. Any change in speed regulation will require approval of several different
agencies: The Army Corps of Engineers, The Coast Guard and the
Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission.
. Boating Safety is considered in this decision
· Vessel Traffic is also considered. The number of vessels registered in
Collier County have increased from 15, 925 vessels to 22,952 vessels.
Boat traffic studies have documented problems with the current situation.
. In 2002 there was a total of 309 citations; in 2003 - 472; and in 2004 up
until June 21 st - 180.
Page 2
October 4, 2004
. In December, 2003 there was a physical test of time travel through the
bay from marker 7 A to the City Dock was 13 minutes.
. Current vessel speed test results were illustrated on a visual display as
well as the effects of the ordinance on total travel time.
. A map was displayed showing the various areas and speed regulations.
Ms. Fiala asked about the different speeds for northbound and southbound
travel.
Michael Kline, Dock Master, City of Naples, referred to a map and tables
included in the handout packet and explained the different speeds for
different segments of the waterway.
Mr. Henning asked what the City of Naples considers as holidays for
boating restrictions. Mr. Kline replied that 11 holidays are recognized.
They are posted at the City Dock and available to the public.
Mr. Halas asked about the classification of slow speed. Mr. Kline
explained that slow speed was determined by a police officer with a timer.
There are different speeds for different vessels.
Mr. Halas asked about the 20 mph and the ability of some boats to plane.
This would actually result in a bigger wake for those vessels.
Mr. Nocera explained that he chose 20 mph because it was actually a state
regulated speed. He understands that the wake will be greater with
particular vessels but the area is larger.
Mr. MacIlvaine: I can state that I was out on a vessel that we set at 20, 25
and 30 mph. When we went from 20 to 25 the bow did go down a little and
the wake may have been less high. On the other hand, two boats
approaching each other at 20 rather than 30 mph is a better situation,
regardless of the wake.
Mr. Halas asked about the width of the channel in the area of concern. Mr.
Kline explained that was between marker 26 and 21. The channel is very
narrow at marker 26, as you head southbound it widens. Mr. Kline
illustrated this information on the maps and charts provided in the packets.
The width would be about 300 yards; at marker 22 the width would be about
200 yards.
Page 3
October 4,2004
Mr. Kalas is concerned about the congestion is the channel. Mr. Coyle
noted that congestion would be affected by the distance between markers
rather than the shoreline. Mr. Kalas expressed his concern about kayaks
and canoes in the water but not necessarily in the channel.
Mr. Kline noted that on weekends and holidays the speed is different and
illustrated this on the map.
Mr. Coyle asked about the discrepancies between the applicable times of the
speed limit and the peak hours listed. Mr. Nocera proposed the speed times
so captains can get out in the morning and noted that Mr. Coyle's comment
addressed the safety factor not the ecology factor. Mr. Coyle stated that
regulations restricted them from regulating speed based on ecological
factors. I'm concerned that you will invite a legal challenge if you based it
on ecological factors. I would like to suggest that if the boat traffic is very
low until 11 :00 am, why not have the boat speed restrictions begin about that
time?
Mr. Henning: Some of the data here about the times has nothing to do with
how to set boat speeds. The other factors would be safety, accidents and
naturally, manatee. All three of those elements are important. I would
propose that the city and the county enter into an agreement to hire a
consultant to study those three elements. Then we can act upon the advice
of the consultant. I think this would be fair and eliminate the emotions.
Mr. Nocera responded that they have numerous studies and he is willing to
share this information.
Mr. Henning suggested that a study by an independent and unbiased party
would be valuable.
Mr. Halas asked Mr. Coyle if he was proposing a speed limit from 10:00
am until 4:00 pm. Mr. Coyle clarified that he was not proposing a speed
limit but simply referring to the data contained in the chart. I'm only
suggested that restrictions reflect the boat counts on the bay.
Mr. Halas: The other part we are not considering is the weekend boaters.
They are held responsible for their wake and I think there has to be an
education process. I think it would also be helpful to hear from the Sheriffs
Department or the Marine Patrol regarding their observations.
Page 4
October 4, 2004
Ms. Wiseman agrees that there are many boat studies but there are no
studies that recommended the 20 mph speed restriction.
Mr. Nocera notes that the Naples Bay Study indicates to slow down speed
in the bay. This study included several people from within the industry.
Ms. Wiseman notes that the concern to slow down is legitimate but the 20
mph were never recommended.
Mr. Russell agrees that there is a lot of good data that can be cross
referenced fairly easily without the cost of a consultant. Currently there is
no level of service adopted for Naples Bay because it does not operate like a
tunnel system highway. There is an additional Marine Officer in the budget
and three boats. I support additional education and accountability. I do not
support just one speed limit for any portion of the bay.
Mr. Coyle asked for consideration of several factors in the final decision
making process. The number of boat registrations is not necessarily
relevant; many boats are not in use. The traffic counts are much more
relevant. Speed zone violations are not very relevant either. For example, if
you had no speed restrictions on the channel there would be no speed zone
violations. It is likely that if you made the entire bay idle speed there would
be more violations. There is not a correlation between speed zone violations
and safety. The important criteria are the traffic, accidents and manatee
deaths.
Mr. Sorey: I have an issue with marker 22 being so narrow. I think there is
some correlation with boat regulations. During season, on the weekend is a
hazardous situation and if we do not address this issue I think that we would
be negligent.
Mr. Nocera noted that not many injuries are reported.
Mr. Russell noted that tracking violations are useful in tracking trends and
behavior and are needed at state level to pass any restrictions.
Mr. Coyle clarifies that he is interested in knowing the categories of
violations, speed zone violations or safety violations.
Page 5
October 4, 2004
Mr. Nocera adds that Gary Davis will be giving additional information on
speed and safety.
PUBLIC COMMENT
Brian Lighting: I have a sail boat. I do not go fast. I have spent a lot of
time on the bay. I have spoken to several parties about a compromise. No
one is willing to compromise. I think we have to be somewhere in the
middle. Don't go with a 20 mph speed limit it is frightening. It's foolish
and extremely dangerous. The best compromise is weekends and holidays
after lOam. The most dangerous time on the bay is right after 5 pm.
Everyone waits for the speed limit to end before heading back.
Laura Combs: Manatees need the zones as well as humans. Manatee
deaths increased 25 percent. The Collier County Manatee Protection Plan
was supposed to decrease the manatee deaths. (An appraisal report and
written comments were provided.)
Wayne Agnoli: Rip Rap in the bay would be greatly helpful. All accidents
should be reported, if you see an accident please report it. When boats do
not plane it greatly disrupts the bottom. Education is great. If additional
enforcement is needed, let's get it.
Dr. Finley: The proposed ordinance would limit boat speeds in large areas
of the bay which are relatively safe. If you study the accident data, you will
see that the vast majority of accidents are on the weekends, between 11 and
4, between markers 20 and 27. At any other time, for the rest of the bay, this
action is unnecessary. This ordinance is unprecedented and dangerous to
small boaters.
Captain Gary: I would like to express my concern with the speed tests.
Thank you for letting me participate, however, these do not reflect true
round trip conditions on the bay.
Allen Wahlburn: I think its important to advise the public why you are
supporting speed zones. The city has to have a reason for the speed zones
and there needs to be data to support it. To my knowledge there are two
independent studies in Naples Bay. All of Naples has only had 23 accidents
since 2000. Only 4 have happened within the proposed area.
Page 6
October 4,2004
Gary Davis, Conservancy of Southwest Florida: I was always willing to
compromise from the beginning. We had tried to compromise three times
unsuccessfully. The issue started with the Hamilton Harbor proposal. Part
of that was to add 325 boats to the bay, but to protect the bay regarding
safety and manatees. We are willing to make a compromise. We would like
to suggest slow speed minimum wake between marker 21 and 22. Most of
the accidents are in transition zones and are a result of speeds. I have the
accident reports here. We understand that the issue is either safety,
manatees or both, but the Conservancy is committed to environmental
restoration of the bay.
Mr. MacIlvaine: If we restrict speed between 21 and 22 can we also relax
speed from 71 to 73?
Mr. Davis: We would be willing to consider any compromise. (Indicating
map to show areas.)
Mr. Henning asks about drafts of boats. Mr. Davis responds that there is
no study but, as boats are getting bigger, the drafts are getting bigger. If you
want to help the ecology, you need to understand what boats do to the
bottom of the channel. Wakes pick up sediment.
Mr. Coyle asks about water quality in the bay. One of the proposals would
be to create spoil islands. The city has been told that this is not possible. If
we all get together, could you support that?
Mr. Davis replies that even if there is a spoil island, the boats still need to be
slowed down.
Mr. Coyle: I hate to disagree with biologists but there are spoil islands all
over the intercoastal.
Mr. Davis: We would definitely support that if our biologist maintains that
it would be helpful. We still support slowing boats down in the bay.
Mr. Nocera agrees that the spoil islands could be helpful in certain areas.
Captain French: I worked on charter boats for 14 years. I've witnessed
one accident and three fires, and I am out there a lot. I've never seen a boat
Page 7
October 4,2004
hit a manatee. A few years ago manatees were also dying from a certain
VIruS.
Lisa Martin: If you do find data that supports speed restrictions due to
safety issues, please look at the times. Weare at the end of the line and
would like to be able to get out there in a decent amount of time.
Phil Osborne: Mr. Davis' comments about the marine industry are
personally offensive to me. Where there is data, we do support speed zones.
We will support an independent, unbiased study, not only financially but in
conclusion.
Mr. Timmons: At 26-27 the channel width is exactly 70 feet; at marker 18
it is 122. This is not a safe width for two boats to pass each other at certain
speeds. Mangrove replacement is a wonderful thing, but right now the boat
wakes are destroying the mangroves. The mangroves behind the berms are
under stress. (Indicating map) I have never seen a manatee. If you think
about this, the total distance is 2.62 nautical miles.
Mr. Alexander: 2.62 nautical miles does not seem like much but it is. I'm
looking at another hour. I defy any of you to tell me there weren't shell
berms here 15 years ago when all the boat traffic wasn't so bad. Mangroves
go through a life cycle, it happens. I haven't seen a manatee in Naples Bay.
Boats aren't killing manatees in Naples Bay, red tide is. I defy anyone to tell
me that sea grasses have grown in Naples Bay in the last 20 years. You can
ask all of those mullet fisherman if they ever brought up sea grasses in their
nets. We have to change the pollution. Where are the statistics?
Mr. Gordon: I have a picture of a shell berm. This is naturally occurring.
Boat wakes do not cause these problems; it is pollution.
BREAK 3:10 PM
RECONVENE 3:20 PM
Chief Moore: The weekends are busy, the weekdays are light. Naples
reflects the state data; weekends have higher occurrences of accidents and
citations. It's a fact, slower speeds result in less damage. Awareness of
wakes is a very big issue. The boaters and passengers have to be aware of
them.
Page 8
October 4, 2004
Mr. Nocera asked about an accident where a person was decapitated.
Chief Moore: The original memo asked for reports for 2 years; I submitted
4 years. The accident you're referring to occurred in May of 1991 and was a
late evening accident. The operator of the boat was charged with DUI
manslaughter by operation of a vessel and was operating without lights. The
transition areas can create hazards. Knowledge and awareness of your
surroundings are very important.
Officer Steve Walden offers to answer any questions.
Mr. Halas asked if boat owners are unaware of regulations and if the
weekend traffic was manageable or overwhelming.
Officer Walden replied that there is a problem with awareness that follows
even to some tourists not being able to read the signs. Right now three
officers and a fourth one is coming. We do the best that we can. There are
some areas that we try to stay out of as far as doing traffic stops just for
general safety.
Mr. Russell asks how much time is spent enforcing the wake issue.
Officer Walden: There are some wake issues out there. As long as there is
no damage or injury there is not much we can do. The majority of stops I do
are speed related.
Mr. MacIlvaine asked about the speed of the boats.
Officer Walden explained that it is different for different vessel sizes and
situations.
Ms. Taylor asked about the statement that there are some areas where
enforcement is not done because it is too dangerous.
Officer Walden explained that, just like on the road, there are some areas
that are too dangerous, the racetrack area #21-#26 or #27. We stop them
when they get out of that area because we are responsible for any damage
caused by our actions.
Page 9
October 4,2004
Ms. Taylor asked about the laws regarding the reporting of accidents and
property damage amounts.
Officer Walden stated that in the past it was $500 and now has been raised
to $2000.
Mr. Nocera asked which part of Naples Bay is patrolled and when. He
further questioned how often citations are issued for a wake which causes
damage to another boat.
Officer Walden: We have everything from marker 65 in Dollar Bay all the
way up to Pine Ridge/Seagate. (indicating map) We have three officers full
time; we either work 8 am to 4 pm or 10 am to 6 pm. We are not out there at
night unless there is a special event. Citations for wake damage are issued
very rarely.
Mr. Mudd added that the patrol is out there at other times as well.
Mr. Henning: I appreciate the opportunity to attend today. I hope everyone
is confident to do the right thing.
Mr. Halas expressed his appreciation as well and asked for a possible
compromIse.
Mr. Coyle and Ms. Fiala expressed their appreciation as well.
Mr. Barnett: I think on behalf of council we would like to do this again on
other issues. We wish you luck with the overpass and hope to be a part of it.
Thank you very much.
5. Public Comment
6. Adjourn
Page 10
October 4, 2004
*****
There being in further business for the good of the County, the workshop
meeting was adjourned at 3:35 p.m.
COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF
COMMISSIONERS
DonnaFiaf~?-
ATTEST:
DWIGHT E. BROCK, CLERK
These minutes approved by the Board on --11-- ll.c ' Dt1
As presented V or as corrected
Page 11
_____--,--_e