BCC Minutes 09/23/2004 B (Budget)
September 23, 2004
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, September 23, 2004
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board( s) of such
special district as has been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 5:05 p.m., in BUDGET
SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples,
Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Donna Fiala
Frank Halas
Tom Henning
Fred W. Coyle
Jim Coletta
ALSO PRESENT:
Jim Mudd, County Manager
David Weigel, County Attorney
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COLLIER COUNTY
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
~
BUDGET AGENDA
September 23, 2004
5:05 p.m.
Donna Fiala, Chairman, District 1
Fred W. Coyle, Vice-Chair, District 4
Frank Halas, Commissioner, District 2
Tom Henning, Commissioner, District 3
Jim Coletta, Commissioner, District 5
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON ANY AGENDA ITEM
MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO SPEAKING. SPEAKERS MUST REGISTER
WITH THE COUNTY MANAGER PRIOR TO THE PRESENTATION OF THE
AGENDA ITEM TO BE ADDRESSED.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 2003-53, AS AMENDED, REQUIRES
THAT ALL LOBBYISTS SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING
ACTIVITIES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO
THE BOARD AT THE BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
REQUESTS TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON SUBJECTS WHICH ARE NOT ON
THIS AGENDA MUST BE SUBMITTED IN WRITING WITH EXPLANATION
TO THE COUNTY MANAGER AT LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF
THE MEETING AND WILL BE HEARD UNDER "PUBLIC PETITIONS".
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD
WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO,
AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD
OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE
TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
ALL REGISTERED PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL RECEIVE UP TO FIVE (5)
MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
1
September 23, 2004
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY
ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING,
YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, TO THE PROVISION OF
CERTAIN ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY
FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT LOCATED AT 3301 EAST
TAMIAMI TRAIL, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112, (239) 774-8380; ASSISTED
LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN
THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' OFFICE.
1. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
2. ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARING
A. Discussion of FY 05 Millage Rates and Increases over the Rolled Back
Rates
B. Discussion of Further Amendments to the Tentative Budget
C. Budget Discussion Items
1) UFR Lists
D. Public Comments and Questions
E. Resolution to Amend the Tentative Budgets
F. Public Reading of the Taxing Authority Levying Millage, the Name of the
Taxing Authority, the Rolled-Back Rate, the Percentage Increase, and the
Millage Rate to be Levied
G. Adoption of Resolution Setting Millage Rates
H. Resolution of Adopt the Final Budget by Fund
3. ADJOURN
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September 23, 2004
September 23, 2004
MR. MUDD: Ladies and gentlemen, would you please take your
seats.
Madam Chair, you have a hot mike.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you very much. The budget -- the
last budget hearing will now be taking place on September 23rd at
5:05 p.m., and I'd like you to stand and say the Pledge of Allegiance
with me.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
Item #lA
UPDATE ON HURRICANE JEANNE - RECOMMENDATION TO
RECONVENE AT 1:30 P.M. FORAN UPDATE OF THE
HI.IRRI.CANES.E OGRF,SS
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, thank you for all being here this
evenIng.
Before we begin, the order in which we'll proceed is we will start
with Dan Summers, who wants to give us just a little update, then
we'll go into the continuance of the sheriffs budget, and then we'll get
on our own budget. Okay?
MR. MUDD: Yes, ma'am.
Dan?
MR. SUMMERS: Commissioners, good afternoon. Dan
Summers, director of the Bureau of the Emergency Services and your
emergency management director of record.
Once again, I need to bring you a hurricane update, and I think
I'll hold off on the editorial comments about Mother Nature right now,
and we'll just go straight into the information I have presented for you.
If we can go -- this is, once again, HURREV AC, and let me
advance for you what we're looking at with Hurricane Jeanne. As you
know, Jeanne appeared to look like her residence was going to be in
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September 23, 2004
the Atlantic, made a turn, and has now made its drift towards the
Continental United States and is headed towards the peninsula of
Florida.
This is the Hurricane Center's advisory as of five o'clock today.
They are looking at this storm to be gaining a little bit of intensity,
brings it up to 125 miles per hour in terms of sustained winds.
Earlier this evening, even as late as four o'clock, we saw a
slightly southern track. The Hurricane Center now is continuing to
predict this slight turn to the north, and I'll just run this on through for
you.
We did a conference call with most of the east coast counties at
five o'clock -- I'm sorry, four o'clock today. And the bulk of the east
coast counties, as well as southwest counties, plan to, at a minimum
tomorrow, any time between eight and one o'clock tomorrow, on the
east coast, will declare a state of emergency in our -- at the current
track and forecast intensity look at what they call A zone or
evacuations for their immediate coastal area, and any barrier islands,
which is currently under discussion right now for those communities.
As I advance the storm forward, it would appear that -- again,
depending on the storm's track, that it would be prudent on our part to
activate, at least partially activate, the Emergency Operations Center
on Saturday.
And as you see in this storm, it does get 34 mile an hour winds or
so into Collier County on Sunday. And as I advance it out, that takes
us all the way through Sunday afternoon before the storm is clear.
Again, this type of situation where, again, we have to be
concerned for any oscillation in the storm's track. If it moves slightly
south, it's a greater wind in that for us.
The good news in this event is that this is not a coastal evacuation
event. It is -- the majority of the county would be perfectly suitable,
based on this information, to shelter in place, and our concern will be
the mobile home communities, primarily the communities of
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September 23, 2004
Immokalee, et cetera, as they are -- they're closer to the stronger
winds.
My recommendation to you is that we monitor this very closely.
Just to give you the satellite imagery that we're looking at right now,
we don't see a lot of turn to the north, as I mentioned, on Jeanne right
now. This is the current satellite animation.
And the Hurricane Center, their cone, their forecast cone, looks
like this. So, again, it's just one of these things. As much as we don't
want to do it, as much as we don't want to alarm the community, we've
got to be prudent at this point and watch this very, very carefully.
Without a doubt, every county in the State of Florida is pretty
tired of managing hurricanes. But, again, we want to be careful that
we don't drop our guard.
If I could make these recommendations to you. I guess you've
heard this before, the forecast track remains uncertain. I'd like to
recommend that we reconvene tomorrow at about one o'clock and -- to
discuss the following: Whether we, in fact, need to declare a state of
emergency, and that will be based on the information from the
Hurricane Center, the state emergency management office, as well as
FEMA. And right now I don't see any issues with any prohibitions or
curfews related to that.
If we, in fact, declare a state of emergency tomorrow, my
concern, again, will be mobile home issues and shelter operations, if
any. So, again, our sheltering, we want to be prepared, but it's not my
intent to do special needs sheltering because we don't anticipate this
being a large power outage type situation or any significant flooding.
There are no rainfall precipitation estimates in the current
forecast right now. And, again, we want to be able also -- if
necessary, we may be back in that host shelter environment again
supporting Glades, Hendry, possibly Charlotte, or even Broward and
Dade. So some of those issues may, in fact, surface tomorrow, or
even Saturday.
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September 23, 2004
So that's my recommendation to you, that we monitor it very
closely. We ask the public again, to make sure that their hurricane
kits, that they are, in fact, prepared, and to make sure that we have an
opportunity to brief tomorrow and let me update you and make the
final recommendations at that point.
Any questions or comments?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes. Dan, you -- as you opened up
your -- in regards to telling us about this hurricane, you said it was
taking a southerly track. Is it correct it's just a temporary adjustment
in the course of the storm, or do you think it might be something that
bears watching?
MR. SUMMERS: Sir, without a doubt it bears watching. The
forecast models from the Hurricane Center do have a lot of fluctuation
in those models.
Again, as you know, there's a high pressure out there in the
Atlantic. Several days ago when we were watching Jeanne, the
discussion was that \ve would see almost a turn to the north, keep this
storm as an Atlantic Ocean storm as opposed to a Continental U.S.
storm.
That turn did not occur, and I'm sure that's the reason that the
forecasters have the level of concern that they have today.
So whether we see, you know, this storm approach the gulf
stream -- and I can tell you from Atlantic coast experience, that we
typically see the gulf stream responsible for making turns and
generating movement within the storm. That is not currently
forecasted in the models right now.
So we will hope that we see a turn to the north that completely
misses the U.S., but at this point we're still within a reasonable cone of
probability .
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
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September 23, 2004
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Would it be okay if we convene
at 1 :30?
MR. SUMMERS: That's ample time. My goal there is to have
the 11 o'clock update from the National Hurricane Center give me
time to coordinate some things with adjacent counties, let our office
have some decision time, and bring some recommendations to you.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, Jim Mudd, for the record. It also
works well -- I talked to Ray Baker today, the school superintendent.
By having it in the afternoon, it gives him time before all his teachers
go, if they need to make any preparations for sheltering so they can
get that ready to go for Saturday.
If this model holds true -- I hope this model doesn't hold true. I
hope it goes someplace else, okay? I think the Carolinas need a
vacation with Jeanne.
And so I hope it doesn't hold true. But based on what you just
saw, we get the winds that pick up around two to three a.m. on
Sunday, and then by about three p.m. on Sunday afternoon, they're
gone, okay, so that -- you know, yeah, we're going to have some bands
and some thundershowers and whatnot, and plus, we're on the better --
the better edge of this hurricane because we're on the left side, not the
right side.
So a little bit different than Frances. Frances hit as a one, I
remember, a category one. This is category three, so it's a little bit
stronger of a hurricane.
I will tell you that this is the same hurricane that hit Haiti, and
they're saying they've lost almost 2,000 people, and it might be
because of the deplorable conditions in Haiti so -- before this storm
hit. But this hurricane has taken some lives.
One thirty would give us the best thing, and I'm hoping it's
someplace on that northern edge, okay, and it doesn't -- and it doesn't
come straight across to go to the Bahamas, that it takes off and goes to
Bermuda, you know, and gets away from us, okay. And we'll see that
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September 23, 2004
in the next 24 hours, I'd presume.
We'll see if it's coming straight across at the two p.m. Friday
node, that you get the second dot past where it is right now. If it's not
sliding straight across and it's starting to head up north, then we
probably will dodge a major bullet on this one.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Dan, my husband and I were
taking off for an event on Saturday. We were leaving tomorrow at
1 :30 on a flight out, coming back at noon on Sunday, but if there's
going to be some kind of an emergency, we'll cancel our flights.
Would you let me know that so that I have the time to cancel the
arrangements there and cancel our flights here?
MR. SUMMERS: Yes, ma'am, be glad to.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
MR. MUDD: Ma'am, what time are you leaving for the airport?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: The plane -- leaving for the airport at 11.
MR. MUDD: Okay. We can get her--
Mr. SUMMERS: We can do that, yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
MR. SUMMERS: That's all I have, thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Any other questions or anything?
MR. MUDD: So the emergency meeting is tentatively scheduled
for 1 :30 tomorrow in this boardroom.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Very good. Thank you.
Now, if, per chance, we see that it's going by us completely and
there's no danger of anything, will you be canceling that meeting?
MR. SUMMERS: Yes, ma'am, it's my intention.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And how do you announce that you're
canceling the meeting?
MR. MUDD: We'll get out a press release to everybody that
we're canceling the meeting. I will let every commissioner know
individually that we're canceling it; I will also call the school
superintendent, who I personally called today, that we're canceling it.
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September 23, 2004
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
MR. MUDD: And Clarence Tiers, who I talked to today.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Great. So everybody will be aware in
advance. Thank you very much.
Any other questions, Commissioners?
(No response.)
Item #lB
REQUEST APPROVAL OF A BUDGET AMENDMENT
TRANSFERRING FUNDS FROM GENERAL FUND RESERVES
TO THE SHERIFF'S OFFICE BUDGET - APPROVED WITH
SIIEIlLAIIONS
MR. MUDD: Ma'am, that brings us to the item from Tuesday's
board meeting, the 21 st of September, 2004, and it's a continuation of
item number 13A.
In your packet it says, continuation of discussion of the Board of
County Commissioners September 14th, 2004, agenda. It was the
September 14th, 2004, agenda. It got postponed though until the 21 st
of September 2004, so that's the second line.
And this is continuation of item 13A, and Ms. Crystal Kinzel,
will present, I believe.
MS. KINZEL: Yes, Commissioners. For the record, Crystal
Kinzel, finance director with the sheriffs office, and I believe Sheriff
Hunter has telephoned in.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yeah, we heard his beeping in.
MS. KINZEL: Okay.
MR. MUDD: Sheriff, are you there? Sheriff, can you hear me?
(No response.)
MS. KINZEL: Maybe not.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: There you go.
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September 23, 2004
MR. MUDD: Sheriff, are you on?
SHERIFF HUNTER: I'm here, thank you.
MS. KINZEL: Commissioners, we're returning today to answer
any additional questions that we might have had on insurance. I've
had an opportunity to talk with several members of the board, so I'm
available for any additional questions that you might have.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Can you -- can you explain the
insurance fund and how that money accrues and --
MS. KINZEL: I hope so, Commissioner. If I --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- give us some history on that.
MS. KINZEL: -- can get some help with the visualizer, maybe
we can use -- can I write on it, and give you --
MR. MUDD: Hang on.
MS. KINZEL: Okay, Commissioners.
Commissioner Halas, I think, was pointing -- and what we had
before us, that some of those citizens at home and other
commissioners may not have had in front of them previously was this
item.
And these are -- this is a page, page 114 out of the financial
statements for the fiscal year ending September 30th of2003. And
what Commissioner Halas was referring to was the 1.8 that you see
right here as an unrestricted net reserve of assets.
And he was asking if that was available to help offset what I'm
requesting from you in the 2.5 million to cover the vacancies that we
filled during the fiscal year. And I wanted to try to go through it one
more time to explain how we get from 19.8 unrestricted at the end of
year 2003 to present.
We take what we have back in this period in time and we project
forward using what our total claims are going to be, what out total
claim costs are going to be, and we look that this amount of money,
what money we have budgeted as a piece of the operating budget to
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September 23, 2004
the general fund, and member contributions.
And between those three pieces, we determine what we really do
need to put in the budget document for the next year.
So at September 30th of2003, we assumed that we would have
this amount of money, and we said, what do we then need to put into
the 2005 budget, because actually the 2004 budget was done in June
of 2003, so we're looking at years as they roll forward. We estimate
then what we need to put in each budget cycle under the general fund.
So these funds that you see as unrestricted as of September 30th
of '03 are not available by now for what we're looking at to help fund
the salaries for the people that we have hired onboard to become fully
staffed.
We look -- during this course of the year, we have that reserve,
plus what we billed this year, and then we have to look at our claims
through this year. We don't know where we will be exactly for
September or through December, which is our planned year for health
Insurance.
The other thing that I need to point out, Commissioners, is that
there's a statute. We don't retain these funds in a bank account at the
sheriffs office. These funds are sent to our Florida sheriffs
self-insurance Multiple Employer Trust, and that trust is established to
retain these funds, pay claims, and handle all of the obligations of the
self-insurance fund that we have.
So we don't have access to those in a bank account here in Collier
County. They are part of the plan element and the plan document with
the trust.
So I think that might have been a little bit of confusion on
Tuesday, that we could use a piece of those to offset where we are
with our 2.5 request for salaries, and those funds aren't available.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Can you show historical
information --
MS. KINZEL: Sure.
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September 23, 2004
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- for this account?
MS. KINZEL: As I -- I'm trying to go back about eight years.
What we've pointed out in this segment, Commissioners, is the
sheriffs office, and then down here we've tried to show a little bit
about the county self-insurance fund, just to give you an idea of what
we do, because again, we're a little bit different in our plan design.
We're different in some of the things that we do, but we have to
do the exact same thing to proj ect out what our claims are going to be
and what funding cycle we're going to need to help offset the plan
costs each and every year.
At one point we had as much as 3.7 million in reserves for the
sheriffs insurance fund. And when you look at that level of funding,
based on our claims, that was actually a little more than we needed in
reserve.
So instead of charging to the general fund budget a flat amount,
we took into consideration that we have those in reserves. And you'll
see each of these years we have dipped into those total reserves so that
the budget that we put forward to you in the general fund took down
money from reserves already to give us the amount that we need to
budget for this fiscal year, in 2004.
And it gets complicated. And I don't know that I'm explaining it
very clearly. But because you have to work for multiple years and
you're working a whole year in advance to try to project out both your
claims and your revenue streams, it really is just a management tool
going back and forth to look at the numbers.
And for this year, we did have this to start, and then we will have
our claims through this year, and we'll see where we end up per the
actuarial, per the financial statements as of September 30th.
But at this point, we don't have those available to pay the salary.
And fully staffed, also -- because we are fully staffed, you see a
greater increase in claims because you have that many more people
for which you're paying insurance claims.
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September 23,2004
And I just wanted to do that as a clarification, for Commissioner
Henning to ask that, but I'm glad to answer any other questions.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The -- can you show us the
different pieces that put together the insurance fund for either 2004 or
2005 --
MS. KINZEL: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- your contributions, your
carry-over, and what the board is asking --
MS. KINZEL: No, not on this one. I don't have that exactly in
that detail, Commissioner, on the amounts for each budget year.
I can tell you for 2005 we've put into our budget about $12
million for the general fund portion, and for reserves we will -- we are
anticipating we will need about $3.2 million in reserves based on the
additional claims cost.
So the cash that we had at July 31 st was about a million nine.
Now, in addition to the cash at July 31st with the financial statement
where we were from the Florida Sheriffs Trust, we would have then
all the premiums for August and September, and then we'd have to
deduct the claims that we have through August and September.
And also going then through the calendar year to the end of
December, we have to wait and see what those claims or amounts
would be.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. What I see here just in --
I guess, Collier County -- the sheriffs office, you're going from '04 for
the health. Am I looking at the right line, it says health?
MS. KINZEL: Okay. For which year, Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, say in '04, $6 million, and
the request is 8.4, almost 8.5. Is that what goes into the -- his account?
MS. KINZEL: Are you looking at the financial statements? Or
what page are you looking at?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'm looking --
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September 23,2004
MS. KINZEL: Oh, in our budget book, okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- in your budget book, page 44.
MS. KINZEL: Okay. Okay. Page -- in 2004 or 2005?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'm just saying, am I looking at
the right line item, and is that going into this fund?
MS. KINZEL: Yes, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
MS. KINZEL: That's exactly what that number is. The health
insurance amount that you can see we budget for single coverage,
6,000, and for family coverage 12,008, that's what we determined
based on the last year's actuarial that we would need to fund out of the
general fund to offset the claims that we anticipate for this year.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It appears to be quite a rise in
moneys going into that fund.
MS. KINZEL: There are health insurance increases, exactly. I
think we can -- we know that national trends -- we're trying to keep it
a little bit low. And as I mentioned before, we're participating in the
countywide consortium with county government, the hospital, and
school board, and we're looking at planned design and cost savings
measures that we can do through some direct changes in our plan
design.
We're also -- today, as a matter of fact, we went out and we had
presenters from different third-party administrators, so we'll be
looking to see if there are any economies or reductions in
administrative fees that can be seen through a change in
administration.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right. And I guess that going
from 6 million to almost 8 and a half million is because of so many
new employees?
SHERIFF HUNTER: Experience--
MS. KINZEL: And experience in claims, exactly.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The -- is that -- is that fund
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September 23,2004
account, is that an interest earning bearing account?
MS. KINZEL: Yes, Commissioner. As long as the budgeted
funds are in our draw, they would earn interest here, and that interest
we would turn back to the Board of County Commissioners. But once
we do send it to the Florida Multiple Employer Trust on our monthly
premiums, those monthly premiums and insurance -- the interest -- I'm
sorry -- goes back to the plan itself.
SHERIFF HUNTER: To fund the plan.
MS. KINZEL: To fund the plan.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right. It stays right within that?
MS. KINZEL: Right.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The interest and everything
else?
MS. KINZEL: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
MS. KINZEL: But only for the monthly premiums that are sent
there.
SHERIFF HUNTER: Madam Chair, may I address the
commission?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sure.
SHERIFF HUNTER: This is really an odd feeling, by the way,
trying to talk to you on a telephone and interject.
Don Hunter, sheriff for Collier County, for the record. And I
believe that these are very important discussions pertaining to the
health care plan. I think, perhaps, Director Kinzel's being overly
modest. We have a managed care plan. We've worked very, very
closely with local physicians and Naples Community Health Care
systems to keep our costs at the least expensive level as possible.
I'm very proud of the health plan, and I'd like to be able at some
point to have a full presentation, or an expanded presentation,
pertaining to the health plan. Sorry. As Director Kinzel had
indicated, we -- we do -- is that me? Are you getting feedback?
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September 23, 2004
CHAIRMAN FIALA: We sure are. Are you standing near some
kind of an electrical facility or something?
SHERIFF HUNTER: No. Let me lay my Nextel device here off
to the side. Maybe that's it.
As Director Kinzel indicated, we work very closely with the
insurance consortium as well as your staff and other local government
elements on a monthly basis to try to work through health insurance
issues that are common to all of government and to do a better job of
managing the health plan.
But this particular item that you're considering at this moment
really has to do with a request for reserve in the current fiscal year's
budget. And I think we got a little off mark a couple nights ago when
we began talking about the 1.9 million in the -- classified as
unrestricted in the financial statements that I believe that Director
Kinzel has clarified now for the board.
Those funds are an expense of the agency, a legal, lawful
expense of the agency, and have been encumbered and reside
elsewhere now as a reserve in trust to fund an insurance program, and
they are not recoverable by the agency or by the board. That is part of
the plan. It's under contract. That's the way it's funded. And you, I'm
certain, do similar things as well with moneys that you use to fund
your health insurance program.
Again, if we may, I'd really like to make a presentation on the
health plan to the board to more fully explain it. But to try to separate
out these two issues, one is a request of you for $2.5 million, a result
of our being able to hire and retain people within the agency to satisfy
our vacancies, which has now caused us to ask for this.
The moneys were properly budgeted and appropriated by the
board by resolution of the board in 2003 and remain available,
actually more than the 2.5 million could be available to the agency.
We've not requested any reserve beyond that.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: It's happening again, Don.
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September 23, 2004
SHERIFF HUNTER: I don't know what could be causing that,
other than a portable phone. Let's see if I can get to a hard line.
So I'm asking for the $2.5 million in reserve funds that were
authorized by the board as part of the 2003/2004 budget cycle
reviewed by the board last year and approved, and we're only asking
for a partial drawdown on that amount, and a remainder would
constitute a carry forward.
Let's try this. Is that better?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes. Much better.
SHERIFF HUNTER: Okay. The remainder of that --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Can you start over again?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, there it goes again.
SHERIFF HUNTER: It's like a paging system.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Try calling back on a regular
phone, Don, if you can.
SHERIFF HUNTER: Yeah, this -- I'll try. It sounds like a pager
system going off, our pager system.
Let me call right back.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, I have Commissioner Halas and
Commissioner Coyle waiting to ask a couple of questions.
How about if we ask Commissioner Coyle to proceed while we're
waiting for a call back, okay?
Go ahead, Commissioner Halas.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Oh, I thought you said--
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I might have, but I meant you. I was
confused. You look so much alike.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I think the discussion on this whole
episode started off with a shortage in the overtime fund of about $2.5
million; is that correct?
MS. KINZEL: No, Commissioner, it's not. The entire discussion
-- and the reason we're asking for 2.5 million, is because we have been
able to fully staff. And as of the 2004 budget that was approved by
Page 16
September 23, 2004
the board, $3.2 million was we -- was -- excuse me -- was deducted
from our full staffing budget --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. Now--
MS. KINZEL: -- going into this year.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: -- how much -- what did you
budget for this fiscal year in overtime?
MS. KINZEL: For 2004?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes. What was the--
MS. KINZEL: About $4 million.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And how much have you used up
to this date, less what can be reimbursed by FEMA?
MS. KINZEL: Oh, less reimbursement by FEMA? I have not
even calculated the total impact of FEMA yet. We're working on --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I said less -- yes.
MS. KINZEL: Pardon me?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: All I want to know is what the --
how much overtime have you spent year to date?
MS. KINZEL: About $8 million, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And you had how much budgeted?
MS. KINZEL: Four, about half of that. But remember,
Commissioner, when we talk about --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Wait a minute. You had -- wait a
minute. Hold on.
You budgeted $4 million for overtime and you're $8 million?
MS. KINZEL: That's about where we're at for this year end,
correct.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Why have we got so much
overtime if we're staffed at full -- 100 percent?
MS. KINZEL: Because, Commissioner -- we've gone over this a
couple times, but let me try one more time.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Well, yeah. Maybe it's something I
don't understand here.
Page 1 7
September 23,2004
MS. KINZEL: Okay. When we have a vacancy, unlike many
jobs, if I don't come in today, I just have twice as much to do
tomorrow, but about 80 percent of the sheriffs office has mandated
posts, in our jail, in our road patrol response, in our dispatch center,
and even in our crime scene.
We have to have a total complement available, if there is an
incident, to go out and respond. If we are not fully staffed, then we
have to rely on overtime to staff those positions.
Now, during the period of time that we weren't -- we were not
fully staffed, we had overtime, and they were considerable amounts of
dollars.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And when was it that you finally
became completely staffed? What portion of the year did you finally
become --
MS. KINZEL: Okay. We started about January, February eating
into the attrition amount, eating into the 3.2 million that you had taken
away from our salaries. That was about January of '04, okay.
Now, also remember, we have an additional issue with law
enforcement and dispatch and corrections officers in particular, and
that's the training curve.
In addition to when we hire them on, which would have been
about January of '04, we have a very lengthy training process. And
until that training process is done -- for example, academy. Our law
enforcement officers all attend an academy, and that academy, I
believe, is 16 weeks.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And do they get paid overtime for
that?
MS. KINZEL: Not overtime. That would be their regular time,
but they're not filling the post that they were hired to fill.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
MS. KINZEL: We're paying them to go to the academy. Then
the post they needed to fill, we still have to fill with overtime until
Page 18
September 23, 2004
they're fully trained and educated and prepared to take over in that
position.
SHERIFF HUNTER: And, Commissioner, you have the same
situation with your EMS crews. They aren't permitted simply to start
just because you've hired a warm body. They have to go through the
training and receive certification in order to perform duties, and then
they also must be consistent and understand your own internal policies
unique to Collier County, not just some generic set of policies that are
taught by an academy.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: So I guess what you're telling me
then, that because of the budget increase over the -- over the period of
years that this has been building up, we're -- from about 1999 till
today, we've had about -- your budget has increased by about 140
percent, roughly; so, therefore, we have 140 percent more officers on
the road patrolling the roadways, and this 140 percent budget increase,
we haven't used all of this as just establishing new desk positions
within the sheriffs office? So that we end up with a top heavy
command?
Is that true? Is that what you're saying, that we have -- instead of
having so many officers that may have been patrolling the roads the
last four years that may -- the road -- the head count on the officers
that patrol the roads has gone up, is that correct, on each shift?
SHERIFF HUNTER: Well -- may I? Let me take a crack at that.
I'm not sure what the years were that were involved. What was the
total increase that you say, 140 percent?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: About 140 percent, probably.
SHERIFF HUNTER: Since when?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Since about '99.
SHERIFF HUNTER: Ninety-nine.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: 1999 till the current budget.
SHERIFF HUNTER: Let's do talk a little bit about what the
agency's budget is composed of and how, as you go forward, you are
Page 19
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September 23, 2004
certainly going to experience more cost the next year than you did the
previous, owing to board policy, the increase in fuel and consumables,
oil for vehicles, we have shotguns.
But remember that as we go forward, we're paying additional
salary, we're paying overtime on that higher salary each year. We also
have added two road patrol, but we've also added to crime scene
investigation, narcotics investigation, homicide investigation, property
crime investigation. So it's not just road patrol.
There are other features of the agency that we've added to in
order both to support the road patrol function, but also to provide
primary suppression, crime suppression activities. So I suppose that
I'm answering yes, partially, to your question. We did add road patrol,
but you cannot -- and you will not be able to say that we added 140
percent to road patrol.
It's an across-the-agency increase as we've moved forward, and it
has to do with all of those features, plus increased cost for medical
care to inmates, increased bombs and health -- high risk health, as well
as high risk retirement for high risk members, same as your EMS
crews.
All of those features would be included and incorporated into the
sheriffs office budget. I don't know what the number is. I don't know
that it's 140 percent, but whatever that number is from '99 to
2004/2005.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Five.
SHERIFF HUNTER: That would be what it's attributed to.
Again, I'm seeking board approval though for the release of
previously approved reserve dollars that were approved in last year's
budget to adjust these types of situations where we have -- and I made
it a matter of record to the board last year and the year before and the
year before that, because this goes back to county manager Neil
Dorrill as an established policy of taking four percent attrition out of
the agency budget.
Page 20
September 23, 2004
Each year I have made a matter of -- as a matter of record a
statement to the board that we hope to fill the vacancies that the
agency has and, therefore, that four percent attrition will be
problematic for us.
This is really the first year that's become completely problematic
because we filled all positions. So I've had to come back to you in
order to seek funding for those -- the filling of the positions that you
have already approved. These are positions you approved last year at
this time. And that is what is before the board at this moment.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You finished?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I've got one more question, and this
is directed to the county attorney.
David Weigel, where do we stand on this? Do we have to pay
this or can we forego paying this or can we decide that we'll only pay
a partial portion of this?
I need direct -- the whole board needs direction from you.
MR. WEIGEL: Well, I don't know that I can direct the board,
but I can tell you what the law appears to say.
And the executive summary that the sheriff has put forward, this
13A, requests for -- makes a request for 2.5 million as a budget
amendment. Prior history of part of an appeal that was undertaken
back in 1999 with the sheriff and the budget at that time included what
appears to be, at this point anyway, a similar element, and the request
was for a -- the board to approve the sheriff to have money come from
the general contingency reserve fund.
And it is correct, as was stated the other day, Tuesday, that there
is, in fact, in place what appears to be a uniform policy of the Board of
Commissioners -- I'll give you a little background here, a restatement.
A uniform policy of the Board of County Commissioners, is that
there is, I believe, a five percent reserve in the general fund reserves,
and the statutes, under chapter 30, which are statutes pertaining to the
sheriff, would indicate that his reserve is to be treated no differently
Page 21
September 23, 2004
than the county's process generally relative to reserves.
In the hearing that was held by the board with different
commissioners back in 1999, part of the discussion at that point was
the fact -- was a declaration or determination, a legal affirmation by
the sheriffs office, that, in fact, that the reserves had to be released.
At that time I was asked an opinion and was able to give part of
the opinion before the board picked up and continued with its
discussion and ultimate determination.
And the opinion that I gave then was that the law has
ambiguities. And I was asked if the board were to say no and this
appeal that was place at that time were to continue, what were the
county's chances of prevailing on the appeal.
And I responded, again, before I was, in essence, cut off, but I
responded and indicated that as always it's difficult to prognosticate
how a case may come out, determine odds. But at that time I said
about 50/50, meaning the odds of the board prevailing if it said no to
the sheriff s request to access funds from the contingent fund reserves
of the general fund.
Now, we've looked at it again this year, of course, and I note in a
little broader review that section 30.49 of the Florida statutes,
particularly subsection six, would appear to be the provision that is
brought forward that talks about the sheriff having an opportunity to
have the reserves.
And if I may -- and I'll be brief -- but it mentions -- it mentions in
four, the reserve for contingencies in the budget of the sheriff shall be
governed by the same provisions governing the amount and use of the
reserve for contingencies appropriated in the county budget, except
that the reserve for contingency and the budget of the sheriff shall be
appropriated upon written request of the sheriff.
Based upon my discussions with Mr. Schreiber and Ms. Kinzel,
they believe that that gives them the, you might say, the sheriff
unilateral ability to access those funds.
Page 22
September 23, 2004
Interestingly though -- and that's statute 30.49 -- statute .3050
(sic), entitled Payment of Salaries and Expenses, provides in its
subparagraph four -- and I'll read, if I may -- the sheriff shall keep
necessary budget accounts and records and shall charge all paid bills
and payrolls to the proper budget accounts.
The reserve for contingencies or any part thereof may be
transferred to any of the budget appropriations in the discretion of the
sheriff.
But it goes on to say, with the approval of the Board of County
Commissioners or the budget commission, if there is a budget
commission in the county, we do not, the budget may be amended as
provided for county budgets in section 129.06(2).
And as I said five years ago and I say again, there are ambiguities
in the law, because the prior law that I mentioned, section 30.49,
subsection 6, says in the discretion of the sheriff, and that particular
subsection of a rather lengthy statute doesn't provide anything further
at that point relative to the board's approving the budget amendment.
Now, we're talking here about meeting payroll and a specific
statute, which addresses meeting payroll and talks about the -- again,
talks about the reserve for contingencies, again says it's in the
discretion of the sheriff, but has additional language providing for a
budget amendment which may be approved by the board, which
would seem to indicate discretion.
So a bright line I won't give you, but I will say that there are
arguments to be n1ade either way. And I will not tell you that the
sheriff has an absolute opportunity for these -- for these funds through
the sub -- section 30.49, sub 6, because there's another provision,
30.50, sub 4, which appears to provide some conflict.
There's no case law on this that I am aware, and to that extent, it's
a little bit uncharted water.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I love uncharted water.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Do have you any other questions?
Page 23
September 23, 2004
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Nope.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Two questions. I just want to make
sure I understand something correctly. Eight million dollars was spent
on overtime last year by the sheriffs office. We -- the sheriffs
department became fully staffed during this year, and there is a
budget, approved budget, for $6.3 million in overtime next year.
What does fully staffed mean and when does it ever get to the
point where overtime isn't reaching into the multi millions of dollars
every year?
MS. KINZEL: Well, Commissioner, I can try to handle that.
Unfortunately, or fortunately -- I guess I should start that way -- you
need to look at not just the totality of the dollars, because it's also a
function of the rate of pay for the members.
So as you do have increasing wage rates, you might actually have
a reduction in the hours worked, but the dollars are going to stay in
similar amounts.
Now, as I indicated on Tuesday, we did start to see a reduction in
the last couple pay periods of the August and September until we had
the impact of the hurricane. And I will tell you having Jeanne out
there scares me again, because if that hits, that's still this fiscal year.
And if we have to go multiple shifts, we're going to see some
increases in overtime.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: But you should be -- you should
get reimbursed from FEMA.
MS. KINZEL: But, Commissioner, that doesn't happen till about
six months later. I still need this money up front to pay payroll and
pay salary.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And will we get it back?
MS. KINZEL: Yes. You will get it back as the Board of County
Commissioners, because any reimbursement that's received
subsequent to September 30 comes directly back to the board. And
Page 24
September 23, 2004
that's how it worked through Hurricane Andrew and that's how it
worked through Hurricane Georges, but --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Under those circumstances
you're talking about a cash flow problem. You're not talking about a
budgeting problem, okay.
So if we're going to get the money back, it's not a budgeting issue
as far as I'm concerned, because it nets out to zero.
My question is, are you going to still incur $6.3 million in
overtime next year, even though you are currently now fully staffed?
MS. KINZEL: I would hope we would start to see the reduction
in overtime as those fully hired individuals become fully trained
individuals and are able to take the full capacity of each position that
they have.
SHERIFF HUNTER: But the answer to the commissioner's
question is, yes, that's our prediction. That's what we've budgeted,
Commissioner Coyle. The 6.3 I believe you quoted, is what we've
budgeted based upon our experience and our information.
There's quite a bit of unpredictability; the orange alerts that affect
us, a red alert. A level red alert under the domestic security programs
would cause us to do things differently, and we would entail overtime.
But what we have been suffering from, as has been accurately
depicted to the board, is that now we are at full staffing, but we still
have members in the academy being prepared to take positions in the
agency and fill posts, and until they are available, we'll continue to
pay overtime for that post.
And that -- some of that will continue to occur regardless of
whether we are fully staffed or not, in as much as we can't simply
walk away from a crime scene, for instance. If we're at the end of a
pay period and we have members out investigating a homicide scene,
we don't permit them to relinquish control of that scene and then go
home and come back the next day to begin that investigation over
again. You can't do that, in fact, as a matter of principle and practice,
Page 25
September 23, 2004
otherwise you have destroyed the investigation.
So this is based upon the experience of the agency that we've
attempted to predict what the overtime budget will be this new
ensuing year, and that is our number at this time, our best guess.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Now, as I understand the reason
that the board postponed a decision on this issue on Tuesday is
because Commissioner Henning asked for the eight-year comparison
of how those reserve budgets, particularly, I think, in the insurance
category were calculated.
Did somebody get those eight -year proj ections?
SHERIFF HUNTER: And that's what Director Kinzel began the
meeting with explaining to Commissioner Henning what our
experience has been. But I think it requires a -- that's going to require
a workshop, I believe, in order for you to see the whole picture.
We can do a broad brush, quick discussion on it, but I believe
that you need more information. What this issue simply is, is you
approved positions in this year's fiscal year, the fiscal year we're
currently in, last September. We were able to fill those positions.
You also approved a reserve in the event that we fill those
positions partially, and for any other budgeted expenses of the agency,
and we're simply asking that we draw down on a part of that reserve
for -- as a consequence of filling the positions and retaining the
members that were already there.
And so it doesn't really -- it doesn't spill over into health benefits
and the health plan, though we're prepared to talk about that. I see this
-- I see it as two separate issues.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Sheriff Hunter, I really was
wondering whether or not our staff had seen the information and had
the chance to review it and were they, in fact, in agreement with the
appropriateness of these calculations.
SHERIFF HUNTER: On the health plan?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: The self-insurance fund.
Page 26
^'~.......--'_.--
September 23, 2004
MR. MUDD: Sir, I saw the information for the first time on the
slide.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. That was my question. I
wanted to know if we had had sufficient time to look at it and analyze
it and see if we agreed with it, because at the time we were having the
discussion on Tuesday, there appeared to be a substantial
disagreement between the staff and the sheriffs office about how
those should be calculated and how much reserves should be held
there, and that hasn't been resolved yet.
SHERIFF HUNTER: Well, no. Actually I believe we've spoken
to that point. The one point that was made, at last -- at the last
meeting, which was that the 1.89 million, the $1.9 million is an
encumbered number. It is not unrestricted. It represents a reserve fund
-- reserve fund for the health plan, and hopefully we've answered that
question.
Those were expenses of the agency, legal expenses of the
agency, that have been encumbered and are not available to use as
some offset or reserve for purposes that we're discussing this evening.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: 1-- Sheriff Hunter, I think it's more
complex than that, but I think you're probably right. But until the staff
has a chance to analyze it, I'm going to refrain from making a final
decision as far as I'm concerned on this issue.
But, you know, if I could, Madam Chair, let me take you back a
couple of years, and it was our practice to bring forward every
department in government and examine the heads of each of those
departments, cross-examine thel11 on their budget and their
expenditures. And generally, what happened was, we got nowhere
with that, and we changed our policy, and instead we started giving
people budget guidelines.
And as a result of that, we have substantially reduced the cost
increases in government. For the first time in many, many years, we
were able to achieve reductions in government without sacrificing
Page 27
September 23, 2004
efficiency. As a matter of fact, it seems to have improved it.
Since the year 2000, in a period of five years, the sheriffs budget
has doubled. We cannot tell the sheriff how to run his department.
There's nobody here qualified to do that. I think the sheriffs -- Sheriff
Hunter does an excellent job of running his department. I think we
have a good sheriffs department in Collier County.
And as the sheriff has pointed out to us in correspondence, he has
a duty to outline what he thinks is necessary to perform his
responsibilities in Collier County.
No\v, we have a duty to do what we think is necessary to assure
that taxpayer dollars are spent appropriately and that there is budget
restraint, there are controls of expenditures, and that expenditures do
not increase at an ever increasing rate year after year after year.
We established the budget guidance. It applied to all of the
constitutional officers and to all of our departments, and it worked
quite well for everyone except the sheriffs department.
And in effect, if we continue with this, we will have to, as the
sheriff has pointed out, establish a millage rate that meets the needs of
law enforcement, which means \ve're being requested to increase taxes
ultimately.
I have a serious concern with this. As I've said, the sheriffs
budget has increased from the $59 million in the year 2000 to $119
million for FY -2005. Those are remarkable increases.
And I do not see how Collier County government can continue to
pay those kinds of increases, bu t I would not be concerned with doing
that to this point were I to see any possibility that this escalation of
costs wou 1d ever stop, and I don't see any possibility that it will ever
happen.
We're being asked not only for more money for this fiscal year,
we're being asked for more money for next fiscal year, and we're told
that the increases are likely to be just as great as they were this year.
And I -- I would like to make a motion that we give the sheriff
Page 28
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September 23, 2004
his $2.5 million for the additional salaries that he has for staffing this
year and that we take it out of next year's budget.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'll second that.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And that will be my motion.
SENATOR SAUNDERS: Madam Chair? I registered to speak,
and I am an attorney representing the sheriff. And before there's a
vote on the motion, I would like to n1ake a few comments because I
understand the motion is to take this 2.5 million out of the '05/'06, or
'04/'05 budget.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: You got it.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Out of the next fiscal year.
MR. WEIGEL: Would you like Mr. Smykowski to clarify or I
will attenlpt to.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: For the record, Michael Smykowski,
budget director.
The budget amendn1ent would be approved from fiscal year '04
reserves for $2.5 million, and then, if I understand your motion
correctly, Commissioner Coyle, the proposed budget for the sheriff in
fiscal year '05 would be reduced during our public hearing discussion
by a like a n10unt --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: -- as an offset to that $2 and a half million
hit to our FY-'04 reserve.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And that's your second as well, right?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's correct.
SENATOR SAUNDERS: And Madam Chair, I would like to
address th e board, if I ¡night, in reference to --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes. Your name for the record, please.
SENATOR SAUNDERS: Yes. My name is Burt Saunders. I'm
an attorney with the Gray Robinson law firm with offices at 1100
South Fifth Avenue, Fifth Avenue South in Naples.
I think that -- I want to kind of get us back to the issue that's at
Page 29
September 23, 2004
hand. I think Mr. Weigel was correct in some of his analysis in terms
of what the statute says.
I kind of disagree in his ulti1nate conclusion. He and I marked
the same sections, which I think is kind of interesting. My conclusion
is that if you read chapter 39 in its totality, that it's clear that during
the fiscal year if the sheriff needs additional operating funds, that he
shall come to the county and ask for those reserves and the county
shall provide those reserves. There's nothing ambiguous about the
word shall in that statute.
And so when your attorney says, well, I think we'd give this a
50/50 chance of prevailing, I would disagree. I don't think the county
has any chance of prevailing on the issue of whether the sheriffhas the
legal authority to come to the county commission and ask for money
out of reserves that have been set aside for his operations in order to
meet shortfalls in his operation. That, to me, is crystal clear. And I
would hope that the county would not want to litigate an issue like
that.
So we've been here -- the reason I'm here today is because I was
retained by the sheriff in years past on the same issue as to the
discretion of the county commission to spend those reserves at the
written request of the sheriff.
And you don't have any discretion. I hate to say that. As a
former member of the county con1ffiission, I know how difficult that is
for a commissioner to accept. But the reality is that the sheriff needs
$2.5 million to fund his personnel expenses in the '03/'04 budget, the
current cycle that we're in. And he's come to you with a lawful
request pursuant to the statute to ask for that.
The only issue that you have this evening is what reserve fund
you take those out of.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, the motion's already on the floor,
Mr. Saunders --
SENATOR SAUNDERS: I understand the motion's on the floor.
Page 30
September 23, 2004
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- to give him the money.
SENATOR SAUNDERS: But the motion is to give him that
money out of next year's reserve.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No. We're going to give it to him out of
this year --
SENATOR SAUNDERS: Did I misunderstand that--
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- but we expect him to make it up out of
next year's.
SENATOR SAUNDERS: If that's the motion, then I apologize,
because I misunderstood that. I thought the motion was to take it out
of the '04/'05 reserves that you're going to deal with now.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: There is no reserves in '04/'05.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. Let me clarify that, Mr.
Saunders.
To me the issue seems to be very, very clear. We recognize that
the sheriff has hired people and he owes salaries, and that amounts to
2.5 million, and I'm happy to give him the 2.5 million.
The sheriffs departITIent has also budgeted $6.3 million in
overtime for next year. If next year's budget were reduced by the $2.5
million and that happened to con1e out of overtime, which I certainly
hope it would, ultimately, it would still need $3.8 million for overtime
for next year.
And so I don't see that this should create a hardship for the sheriff
doing it this way. It gets everybody where they want to go, and it
keeps us out of litigation.
Because I can tell you my personal feeling is that I will not
increase ad valorem property taxes in Collier County unless somebody
in Tallahassee or a judge makes 1TIe do it. I am going to be forced
kicking and screaming to that decision. I will not do it. The people in
Collier County are taxed enough.
And instead of -- and if I q note from the correspondence, the
Collier County Board of Commissioners establishing a millage rate
Page 31
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September 23, 2004
that meets the needs of law enforcement, I would prefer to establish a
millage rate that meets the needs of the taxpayers of Collier County,
and that's where I'm going.
And I have been a very strong supporter of the sheriff. I have
sponsored the resolution to support his efforts to coordinate the INS
and FBI and federal and state law enforcement agencies. I sponsored
the resolution to support the Patriot Act, which helps him do a better
job of protecting us.
I have been very supportive of the sheriffs department
throughout my tenure on this board. Our only disagreement is that I
believe that there must be an end to these drastic increases in
expenditures, and the sheriff bel ieves that we should increase the taxes
to meet his requirements.
And there is a fundamental disagreement, and I am not backing
down and I don't care if it takes a court case or if it goes to the cabinet
and the governor. I an1 going to hold to that position.
SENATOR SAUNDERS: Madam Chair?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: So your answer to the question was, the
2.5 million is coming out of the reserves for now, but then you expect
it to be paid back, by \vhatever 111eans, back into the reserves when the
2005 budget comes in; is that correct?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yep.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. That was the answer to your
question.
SENATOR SAUNDERS: Thank you, Madam Chair. I just
wanted a clarification on the n10tion. I understand now.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And do we have any other sp --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Can I explain -- can I explain
that a little bit better?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sure.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I think the issue is, we have it in
reserve, we're going to give to the sheriff. And just an FYI, oh, by the
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September 23, 2004
way, in 2005, we're expecting to decrease it when we get in a
discussion under the budget. So it's not a makeup. Just to make that
clear, it's not a makeup. We're going to give him the reserves.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you, Commissioner Henning.
Now we have a motion on the floor and a second.
Do we have any speakers?
MS. STONE: No. That was your only registered speaker.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. And we have Commissioner
Coletta and Commissioner Halas waiting. Did you have something
else to add here?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'm somewhat befuddled, I guess
you'd say. When the sheriff can1e before us and said that he needed to
have additional people to ralnp up for the future, I would assume --
anyway, that's how I assumed it would be, it would be ramping up for
the future needs.
It seems to me as though the sheriff said, I need these many
people and all of a sudden, now I'm in a crisis situation. I've got to
pay all this overtime.
Normally in the corporate world when you look at what your
needs are for manpower in the future, you say -- you basically come
up with a budget and you look and you say, because of the fact that we
have other items coming online or whatever, we're going to need X
amount of manpower.
But what you do is you live within that budget and you don't go
hog-wild on overtime. And it seems to me that as soon as we gave
him the ability to start to hire those people, then it became a crisis
situation where we spent twice the amount for overtime. So I have a
real concern to that.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: COlnmissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. I share your concerns.
And Commissioner Coyle, I think you put it together for us so it really
expressed our feelings.
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September 23, 2004
Three of the comlnissioners here that were elected in 2000, when
we came aboard, the sheriffs department was having a great amount
of difficulty, and we supported them 100 percent. We had tremendous
budget increases.
It was absolutely necessary to bring the deputies up to parity.
We wanted to do it. We wanted to make sure that our deputies were
provided for. We wanted to make sure that it was fully staffed. We
wanted to make sure that all the equipment that they needed to
operate, and wasn't getting in the previous budget, was going to be
there. However, this can't continue forever.
We're now fully staffed, or close to fully staffed, and it seems
like there's no end. And we've got -- we're hearing from the sheriffs
department that the budget increases are going to be equally big in
years to come.
It's like there's no end, there's no controls to it. So I think this is
the point in time where everybody has to sit down at the table early on
and come up with a reasonable Inethod to be able to come up with
how we're going to handle the next budget.
I don't want to have to go through this every single year. There's
got to be some better nexus to it. I think there's got to be a way to be
able to audit this that 'vvill bring it closer to the county's control so that
we can start to be able to analyze this thing by our numbers that we
get in front of us.
Mr. Mudd, have you got any ideas on this point?
MR. MUDD: COlnmissioners, what we'll do is we'll sit down
early with the -- with the issue. I thought this year when the board
said, here's your previous piece of the ad valorem dollars, and then
based on the new assessed rates and the new construction rates -- and
ours turned out to be about 11.8 percent increase this year.
Of that 11.8 perccnt increase, you receive that percentage last
year, plus you receive that percentage of the new increase, and that
way it pretty much keeps everybody -- it keeps you millage neutral,
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September 23, 2004
that's for sure, and it lays that out. And we'll go through that with Ray
Ferver (phonetic) and work through it with everybody.
You'll notice on the 28th of September agenda, which you
received today, the -- there's an item in there to basically ask for the
budgets to be brought in a n10nth early. And you have a resolution to
approve for that.
And that will give us additional time, because there was a lot of
people that said it didn't have enough -- it didn't have enough vetting
in the public -- in the public sector for the budget, even though we had
three workshops and \vhatnot, and this will give it about two -- two
months before the workshops are there that the budgets will be out,
and then folks can take a look at that and we can analyze it.
So we're trying to do everything we can to move up the budget
process at least a month early, and we can work through that again
based on percentages or whatnot that the board wants to do with the
budget guidance. But we'll meet with everybody prior to that.
SHERIFF HUNTER: Madam Chair?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes. Let me just ask Commissioner
Coletta, was that -- is that what you were looking for? Are you
through?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, I think it's getting closer
to it. Yesterday when we were talking about the representative for the
clerk's office, he mentioned the fact that he wasn't responsible for the
sheriffs budget, for critiquing it, so that must mean that we are; is that
correct?
MR. MUDD: Sir, you -- you set the sheriffs budget. He submits
it and then you approve it or you disapprove it or whatever, and there's
a set -- there's a set process that goes out, that's laid out in the statutes
that basically says, the sheriff submits it, the board -- the board can
approve it, n10dify it.
At which time the sheriff, if he disagrees with it, he can say that
he's going to appeal that pmiicular case, and then at that time, the
Page 35
September 23, 2004
county does a by-item deletion, okay, to justify the cut by the Board of
County Commissioners.
And that critique then goes up and forms a basis for, let's call it a
dispute resolution for lack of better terms, up in the Board of Trustees
in Tallahassee, in that debate, and they basically serve as the referee or
judge on the budget in the benefits of the arguments that are basically
putout.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Does that answer your question?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sheriff Hunter, Commissioner Halas, are
you waiting to answer -- ask a question also?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes, but I'll wait--
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, Sheriff?
SHERIFF HUNTER: I was just going to make a couple of points
that I think may help the board, I hope will help the Board of
Commissioners.
A number of -- several points I'd like to make first before I do
that, because I have a couple of recommendations I'd like the board to
consider.
But first, Conmlissioner Coyle especially, and Commissioner
Coletta, I believe made a point of the year 2000 when you came
aboard. Commissioner Halas's point some time back was that we had
doubled the budget -- I think 140 percent, Commissioner Halas --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes, sir.
SHERIFF HUNTER: -- I believe was the number, and
Commissioner Coyle also n1ade reference to the fact that we've at least
doubled since 2000.
Commissioner Coletta made the very strong and important point
that this board, elements of it, and since 2000 all of it, have been very
supportive of law enforcement and of the sheriffs office, and I think
because of that we've been very successful. Not successful enough.
Because as I said before, we have still in excess of 7,000 victims
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September 23, 2004
in Collier County. We want to do better than that.
But the fact is that the budget increases are a -- is a blend of a
number of different features that affect the agency, and it has a lot to
do with the remarkable salary adjustments that were made to the
agency and all constitutional officers, as well as board member--
board member department, back in 2000/2001, phased in over a period
of time, in order to bring Collier County into a competitive posture
with this region because we -- I can't believe this is happening again.
The consultant study -- the consultants retained by the board have
demonstrated that Collier County was not competitive.
So, again, my point is that \ve are seeing budget increases. It has
to do with a lot of different features, and I remind the board that
productivity study groups went over to the board of -- over to the
sheriffs office on an annual basis to study the sheriffs office budget
and to study the overtime budget, and they have always reported back
in a positive fashion to the Board of County Commissioners, because
they have taken the time to understand what the dynamics are
involved within that budget.
And I strongly encourage and welcome the county
commissioners' involvement in the agency budget, asking questions
throughout the course of the year. We have nothing that we're holding
back here. This is a publish -- public document.
And in that light, Madam Chair, I'd like to ask that the agency
have, at your direction, the ability to meet monthly with your staff and
-- to discuss budget issues far -- \vell before we submit our budget
document for the next ensuing year --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Don, because you're going in and out and
we're getting this loud buzzing noise, let me just see if I understood
what you just said.
I understood you to say that you would like to meet with staff
once a month to discuss budget so that at the time that the budget is
actually applied for, submitted, that you will have been working with
Page 37
September 23, 2004
staff all along and have a better handle on it; is that correct?
SHERIFF HUNTER: The only -- the only amendment to that
was staff and at least one seated commissioner appointed by the chair
so that the commission is directly involved in these discussions on a
monthly basis, and it could be budget issues. And we may have no
issues in a given month, but I'd like to create that feature.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: C0111missioners, how do you feel about
that?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I think that would be something
we would bring back for discussion on a regular agenda. But I think
it's got merit to it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
SHERIFF HUNTER: Well, I'm not necessarily saying we have
to have a workshop each month. But I would definitely like to meet
with a cOl11illission member and staff on a monthly basis to discuss
any issues that you may have or where you may have some concern.
The other element of this is I want you to be reassured,
Commissioners, that the productivity study groups that have studied
the agency and staff who have been specifically hired to study the
agency over the course of the last 20 years that I've been here have
consistently reported positively back to the board.
As I said, the increase is what it is. I can't change that. We've
responded to our environment, we've responded to the board, board
concerns, constituent concerns throughout the county, and we have
tried to put before the commission each year a responsible and
reasonable budget.
There are individual nuances and elements within that budget
that can be explained. It is a -- it does take time to understand it,
however.
The second feature that I'd like to propose or make the board
aware of, number one, the outside auditors, the independent auditors
that are hired by and retained by the board each year, audit the
Page 38
September 23, 2004
sheriffs office, and you'll find nothing remarkable or exceptional there
in those audits. They always give us a good, clean audit. We do not
have exceptions.
I'm quite proud of that fact, and I don't believe that some of the
representations that have been made over the last several days are
quite accurate about the sheriffs office. Weare an open agency
subject to the san1e public records laws as you and to your
independent auditors that come in and audit us.
I've also explored with our Clerk of Courts, Dwight Brock, the
possibility and the feasibility of an independent audit from his agency
to reassure the board that we are performing as expected and
performing as required under best practices, and he has assured me
that, with the approval of the board, he would perform that for me. So
I'm going to be l11aking that request of him and asking him to perform
an audit.
Because \vhat I would like to have, Commissioner Coyle, is your
absolute, complete confidence, and Con1111issioner Halas, especially, I
would like to have your confidence that you understand how we put
the budget together, where it's going, the fact that the productivity
study groups have had absolutely no heartburn.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sheriff Hunter, I hate to interrupt you, but
this is getting to be a rather lengthy discussion about something that
we should be discussing under an agenda item.
Right now we're just trying to -- we've already got a motion on
the floor and a second, we've got two con1missioners waiting to talk --
SHERIFF HUNTER: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: -- and time is kind of dragging on. So if
you don't mind, 1'111 going to rein it in and have Commissioner Halas
ask his question, then Commissioner Coy Ie.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I think I changed my question.
Since I've been so hard on the sheriff, I'd like to be the commissioner
that sits on that board.
Page 39
September 23,2004
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. We'll discuss that at the workshop
-- or at the board, board meeting.
Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I've forgotten what my question
was. I probably said enough already.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, fine. I have a motion on the floor
and a second.
Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All those in favor, say aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
COJ\1MISSIC)NER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. We have Commissioner -- what is
your name -- Halas opposed. Four yeses and Commissioner Halas
opposed.
Okay, fine. Thank you very much.
Looks like we'll be bringing that back as an agenda item to
discuss t1-:c suggestion from Sheriff Hunter about -- and so far it looks
like we a11 think it's a great idea, but --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: No.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No? Okay.
MR. MUDD: But I'll bring it back for a discussion item--
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yeah.
MR. MUDD: -- and I'll do it during discussion at the next
meeting, ~1nd then we can get into it.
CHAIR1\1AN FIALA: Okay. Very good. That's a good time.
Okay. That's it on this one?
MR. MUDD: Yes, ma'am.
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September 23,2004
This brings us to the final budget public hearing.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You know what, our court reporter really
needs to have her 10 minutes, and before we get into the next segment,
let us give her 10 lninutes, okay?
MR. MUDD: Yes, ma'am.
(A brief recess was had.)
Item #2A
DISCUSSION OF FY 05 MILLAGE RATES AND INCREASES
MR. MUDD: Ladies and gentlemen, if you'd please take your
seats.
Madam Chair, you have a hot mike.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you. And now we'll resume our
meeting to discuss the budget.
MR. MUDD: Mr. Smykowski?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Good evening, Commissioners. For the
record, Michael SI11ykowski, budget director.
The first iten1 on our advertised public hearing to finalize the
fiscal ye3r 2004/'05 budget is a discussion of the FY-'05 millage rates
and the inc1"c8se over the rolled back rates, and that is spelled out in
statute, th3t the first substantive issue discussed shall be the percent
increase ovcr the ll1illage rate -- over the rolled back rate necessary to
fund the budget.
CHA TRMAN FIALA: That's when you read us all of this stuff,
Mike?
MR. l\1UDD: No, ma'am. We're going to -- yes, that's what he
normally docs, but we're going to try to make this a little bit better for
everybody.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
Page 41
September 23, 2004
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We're going to read it together.
MR. MUDD: No.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: We'll just look at it.
MR. MUDD: On the slide I have the Collier County, Florida,
property tax rates for FY-'05 proposed, and I'm going to blow it up a
little bit so that everybody out there can see it.
Okay, Michael?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Correct. At the very top is the two
principal operating funds that are on a countywide basis. The general
fund is a proposed tax rate of 3.8772 n1ills. That is the same tax rate
as last year. There is no increase in the millage rate, and that is the
same tax rate that has been levied since fiscal year '02 and is an eight
percent increase over the rolled back rate.
The water pollution control fund, as the general fund, is the same
millage rate as that levied in fiscal year '04. It's .0347 mills, an 8.1
percent increase over the rolled back rate for future replacement of
expensive lab equipment to avoid millage spikes in the future.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Mike, I'll make my normal
commercial announcement at this point in time, that the rolled back
millage rate is still confusing, and I would advise the viewers to ignore
it. The tax rate is not changing.
The rolled back rate is what it would be if the property values
hadn't increased; is that correct?
MR. SMYKOWSI(I: That is COlTect.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Property values did increase. We
have nothing to do about that. But the adopted millage rate stays
exactly the same, zero percent change.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You lmow, maybe instead of saying
rolled b3ck, you could say if the l11illage rates stayed the same, or if
the taxes stayed the same.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: If the property valuations --
property va lues stayed the same, it would be. But it is really
Page 42
September 23, 2004
confusing, and it is meaningless, because it's dealing with a fictitious
figure that doesn't represent reality. But I know you have to do it
because of statute.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes. The statute forces you to express the
percent increase over that arbitrary rolled back millage rate figure, but
I also have an overhead that, once we finish going through these, that
is a little nlore user friendly that shows what last year's tax rate was,
what the proposed tax rate is for the upcolning fiscal year, and what
the change in dollar impact per $100,000 of taxable value is.
I think from a layperson -- and it will be much more readily
understandable, and they can obvious I y apply it to their own situation
at home, depending on the taxable value of their individual residence.
Continuing on. The next group of -- are largely MSTUs,
municip81 service taxing units, that are largely taxes that individual
neighborhoods have elected -- where they've come and petitioned the
board and requested to levy additional ad valorem taxes for services
above and beyond those that are provided by the county on a
county\vide basis. These are typically very localized in nature.
They're largely drainage Í111proven1ents, beautification districts
spread tl:roughout the county, Lely, In1n10kalee, Golden Gate, with
varying degrees of increase.
The percent increases over the rolled back rate are fairly
substantial in SOllle cases on a percentage basis, but that can be
somewhat l11isleading too, because in son1e of these MSTUs you're
talking 8bout levying $3,500, and you n1ight be levying $5,000 in '05.
So you know, where you're talking about a large percentage increase,
you may be only talking about an order of magnitude of$1,500.
The other thing I'd like to point out within the context of these
MSTUs is that a lot of them are governed by citizen advisory
committees as well that bring forth a budgetary recommendation each
year and nlake millage recomn1endations in conjunction with county
staff. So these, again, are scnlbbed at the local level, kind of the most
Page 43
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September 23, 2004
local of our -- of the taxing districts.
For example, you have a Lely Golf Estates Beautification that
levies two mills. That is solely a narrow area within Lely district
itself.
You also have fire districts. There are three: Ochopee, Collier
County Fire, and Isles of Capri Fire. They levy a constant millage.
The beautification districts largely levy a constant millage as
recommended by that advisory committee to continue improvements
and/or maintenance within those beautification districts.
So, again, while there may be a percent increase over the rolled
back rate, those are largely governed by citizen advisory committees
that have put their imprimada, or seal of approval on the proposed
millage in working with the staff in developing this budget for the
upcomIng year.
Overall there's an aggregate millage rate of 4.7949 mills, which is
a blended rate of a 11 the various taxing districts, and that is an increase
of7.9 percent above the rolled back rate.
And Mr. Mudd, if you would, you could change this out. And
this, I think, will be a little n10re user friendly, with the exception of
the size of the type.
The MSTUs serve us well in ten11S of allocating dollars and only
charging those who specifically benefit from those additional services,
but when it comes time to reading the l11illage resolutions and/or
discussing the nU111ber of various districts, they make it somewhat
cumbersome.
But to a large degree, what you see -- what you see in front of
you is tl1at the principal taxing districts of the county, which are the
general fund, which is levied on a countywide basis and is paid by all
residents of Collier County, again, is -- the millage rate is staying the
same as that levied in the prior year.
That also is true for the unincorporated area of the county. The
unincorporated area general fund serves the large group of population
Page 44
September 23, 2004
in Collier County that is not in a municipality.
Of the 300,000 plus citizens in Collier County, the number of
residents within the municipalities is relatively small. The City of
Naples is probably 20-, 25,000; Marco, about 15,000; then Everglades
City 6- to 800. So Collier County is the principal service provider in
the unincorporated area in the county.
The only other thing of order of n1agnitude, there is a large dollar
increase, the Sabal Palm Road MSTU. That was a new tax levy this
year. It's over two rnills, or the equivalent of $215 per $100,000 of
value, and that is for some roadvvay n1aintenance.
And Ms. Flagg and the transportation staff have worked
exclusively and in conjunction with the residents who brought forth
that request to maintain that roadway to a better degree in terms of
maintenance and necessitating.
There was son1e prior year fund balance that was available that is
being spent this year for the lin1e rock road maintenance, and I know
Commissioner Coletta was involved in that as well. That was the other
major increase of note within that section.
Item #2B
DISCUSSION OF FURTHER AMENDMENTS TO THE
Further amendl11ents to the tentative budget, item 2B. They are
relatively few. Page one -- what we've done for the benefit of the
board and the public, there is a three to four-page synopsis of all of the
changes that have been n1ade since the tentative budget was released
in July.
The general fund changed slightly for the $4,500 for the guardian
ad litem program that was funded fron1 reserves at the first budget
hearing. That's in bold.
Page 45
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September 23, 2004
What we've done, we've replicated all the changes so that you see
a comprehensive list of all the changes, again, from that July initial
release of the budget. Anything in bold is a change from our first
public hearing, and those are actually few and far between.
The miscellaneous grants funds. There was a grant from the
Empowerment Alliance of Southwest Florida to provide homeowner
education progran1s in Immokalee for $10,000.
The other principal change -- changes on page two involve our
road impact fee districts \vhere we're reassessing where we're at with
projects and also updating in1pact fee forecasts based on actual
receipts. Obviously we're very near the end of the fiscal year. It's
much easier to project how n1uch revenue will be received in the -- in
the various impact fee districts when you're two weeks -- within two
weeks of the close of the fiscal year as opposed to, when the budget
was created, \ve're doing these projections in April.
And obviously there's been a large impact as well due to the
policy decision on PUDs where they have to pay 50 percent of those
impact fees up front. So we're seeing the benefit of that change as
well in terms of additional revenues -- road impact fee revenues, and
we've adjusted the budget accordingly.
Item #2C
With th1t, that would take us to iten1 2C, budget discussion items. The
one item that was on your list was UFR lists, and I'm going to turn to
Mr. Mudd for that discussion. We also have a follow-up on the
discussion relative to the juvenile assessment center.
Bllt first, Mr. Mudd willlead us through a discussion on the UFR
lists.
MR. MUDD: Comn1issioners, if you -- if you take a look at your
Page 46
September 23, 2004
-- it's item 2C, page one, there's available funds at this particular
juncture of $86,000 in the general fund. There's a certain list of items
that are on that page and that list.
And I would -- I would ask with the minimal number of dollars
that at least we get SOl11e discussion upon two of those particular items
at this particular tin1e, and that's the guardian ad litem number. You
heard a petition frol11, at the last hearing, at the last budget hearing that
we had, about $12,000 or $11,000.
We're state nlandated for about $4,500, and Mr. Smykowski has
put that in our budget, and he showed you that line during the changes.
What's left of that particular request is $6,600, and I would
recommend to the board that you approve that particular item, or that
amount ofnl0ney to go into the budget and off of the unfinanced
requirement 1 ist.
And the other item that I would like to get some discussion on --
because \vc're about ready to get back into the legislative side of the
house again -- is the last itenl on that list that talks about lobbyists.
We had a lobbyist for one year. We didn't have a lobbyist last
year. And I didn't -- and it nlight not be that total amount.
I just \vant to get an idea if the board would like to maybe not
have s0111ebody that's on penl1anent, but if when the board members
go to Tallahassee and we get there to l11ake -- to get -- you know, to go
to the, so to speak, the hill, \vhen \ve go to Tallahassee, that that
person can be there, help us get into the doors of some people that
aren't our -- \ve have no problen1s \vith our local representatives at all.
They're ahvays there. Heck, they're always here for us, okay?
They're in the offices of this building.
It's \vhen you get there and you have to get the chair of the
appropriations cOll1mittee or you need to go see the speaker of the
house or you need to see the president of the Senate and whatnot,
things get a little dicey, and they do have the ability to somehow break
through those calendars that you can't touch if you're just an individual
Page 47
September 23,2004
calling.
So I just wanted to see what the board would like to do on this
lobbyist particular item, because I've heard some dialogue between
different members on the dais about it, and I just want to know what
your direction is, and do you want to move that forward?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: COlnn1issioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I think the guardian ad
litem is a request that this board can fund, and I encourage my
colleagues to fund this progran1.
The lobbyist and hold-handing of the board members up there,
the staff of our delegation is more than willing to make appointments
in other offices, their colleagues, in Tallahassee. We just need to
figure out \vhat our issues are and go for them.
And now, there are certain issues that we might need a lobbyist,
but we don't knO\V what that is. We don't know if we do have a
special issue to go for.
So -- but there is a -- sOlnething that I think that ultimately can
save the Board of Comnlissioners a lot of money, and that is with the
purchasing department, have sOlnebody to oversee the contracts,
manage the contracts.
In f0ct, in 2001, we saved over $1.7 million in contracts. And I
know that -- and vv-e all know what kind of capital improvement mode
we're in. And I want to -- we all sai d we want to be responsive --
responsib 1 ~ for these contracts that we let, whether it be a road project,
a waste\vater or potable \vater or \vhat.
And I think this -- this position will bring us back money, and
those arc the things that we should be funding.
So I urge n1Y colleagues to fund the position for purchasing.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I don't see it on here. Where is that?
MR. MUDD: Ma'an1, it's -- there's two positions under central
contract administration section for $108,300, and that's -- and that --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We'll just fund one of them.
Pagç 48
._....--.
_._..~."'---~--"-"--'
.-._-~"
- .---_.---
September 23, 2004
MR. MUDD: And there's a total of two positions there, so it's
basically if you just divide it by t\vo.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Thank you.
Conlll1issioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, Commissioner Henning, I
can agree with you on the purchasing agent to be able to oversee the
contract. I think that that scrutiny is extremely important as we move
forward, cspecial1y as busy as this county is.
I would like us to give son1e consideration to a lobbyist. Not so
much a lobbyist that \ve give $60,000 to with no clear direction, but
$60,000 that \vould be set aside for the board to be able to allot to the
right person at the right tin1e if needed.
A Iso, too, that could include such things as possibly putting into
the pot to help out the M PO with their lobbying efforts, their national
lobbying efforts, or the Florida Association of Counties where they
may need some slnall additional funds. With that set to one side, we
could dnl\v from that or \vhatever else is necessary on an as-need
basis.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: COlnnlissioner Coyle?
C01VIMISSIONER COYLE: Well, we only have $86,000, right?
CO~1MISSIONER I-IALAS: Yeah, 86,000.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. What I \vould -- what I would
recommend is you have this discussion. And you know, if I did the
numbers right now, that Ineans you'd be setting about 20,000 aside for
the lobbyist or for a lobbying effort or whenever you need it on that
. . 1
partIClJ 1 a r --
CO~/IMISSIONER COLETTA: And I -- and to me, that would
probably be more than adequate. l'n1 not looking at something where
we have to have somebody on the payroll.
MR. MUDD: C0111nlissioners, I will also tell you that you are--
we are going to get turn back, okay? We get it every year, okay? We
kind of h1ve an idea of \vhat it's going to be. We don't know what it's
Pac,-c 49
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September 23, 2004
going to be exactly, and \ve won't know that for a month when you
finally get your checks back fron1 the different constitutional officers
when you get there.
Nonnally the turn back is a little bit more than what we had
projected. It just happens to be that way. It's a rare occasion when it's
less.
Vie can -- we can hope -- we can basically allocate the 86,000 or
thereabollts in here, and then when that turn back comes back, I'll have
Mr. Smyko\vski tell you \vhat the differences are, and then if there's
dollars in there that would, you know, come up to this, then we can go
back at this list again outside of those three items, if that would be
okay with you.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, I don't want to stop the
discus~ion yet on this issue. But I -- I've always been opposed to
spending nloney on lobbyists until I -- we went up there for
govemnlent day and I sa\v how effective they were getting us in to see
people and Inaking sure we had enough time to spend talking with the
appropriate legislators about the issues.
Sn I agree, we should have SOlne money allocated to lobbying
activities, because it does n1ake our time up there a lot more efficient
and it ~ets us \vhere we \vant to go a lot faster. And so I would
support sonle money for lobbying activities, but I agree we need to
control it a I ittle better than, perhaps, has been the case in the past.
I \vould like to ask one final question. It sounds good to say
we're going to centralize contract adn1inistration. I'm not sure I
underst1nd exactly what that means, but it was sort of my
underst..nding that we had people \vho managed these contracts.
IV' !~. MUDD: Yes, sir.
COMl\1ISSIONER COYLE: And I don't quite understand the
difference here.
MR. MUDD: When we did the implementation plan for
contr8ctin~ to make it better, we ll1ade several changes in the way we
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September 23, 2004
do contracts, the way you do the RFPs, the way you check them, the
verbiage and everything else.
In Mr. Carnell's shop, Mr. Carnell is woefully understaffed. And
I will tell you -- and I believe the clerk had added Mr. Abbott and Dr.
Carter at one time to look at the contracts in his particular shop, and I
think Mr. Abbott still does that.
Tn~y have also found that it's very -- the contracts are large, large
documents. And \ve would like to be able to have in our agency
people th~1t are totally dedicated to those particular contracts in the
contracting agency that are totally fan1iliar with the contracts and so
that they basical1y shepherd those from cradle to grave and they know
every nuance that's in there so that the contractors, or people that we
do business for services, that nothing falls through the crack and we
catch every nU:lnce in the particular contract.
\'1 e do our best to nlake sure that that doesn't happen. For
instanc", Mr. Brock did an audit of Project Integration and found that
they harl subnlitted bills and found $107,000 that they had overbilled
us, okay, and \vas able to get that.
Well, that's one -- that's one instance. He's not -- he's not staffed
to do tl;~:t for every contract -- every contractor. This way we get eyes
on everv one of those --
C('MMISSIONERHALAS: Yep.
MR. MUDD: -- and to n1ake sure that nobody's trying to put the
wool over 0111' eyes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. I understand that. But are
you tell i'lg 111e that \ve don't have son1ebody in charge of every one of
these contracts no\'/?
]ViR. MLOD: Sir, you have a project manager, okay, out in the
transpoliation and -- or in public lltilities or in facilities. But you don't
have the kind of scrutiny you need to look at those contracts from a
legal snst1inable nlanner like \ve should. You just don't have it.
I JllCan, I can look up what ]\1r. Carnell's staffing is right now, but
Page 51
September 23, 2004
I will tell you, my last organization that I worked -- and I had 26
people in contracting, okay, working these particular issues, and my
capital budget was nothing like the capital budget that you have in the
county right now.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And we do have some people
looking at these contracts. The problem is, there are so many of them
out there that --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah, we've got a lot of them.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- you can't -- you can't watch
everything. And I just think that we can do a better job.
MR. MUDD: Plus, Commissioner, you want to do better specs,
okay? I will tell you, when you're doing -- when you're doing large
projects -- you know, we have this -- we have these generic contracts
that were done for us by Mr. Necterline (phonetic), an attorney office,
an outside attorney office that we've employed from time to time.
He's taking a look at some of those, we call them boiler plate
contracts.
They don't necessarily fit everything though. And in some
particular cases, they're woefully -- they're woefully short. And I --
when I first got to public utilities, I watched project managers make
contracts, actually build a contract document.
And I go, you're doing what? He says, I'm building the contract
for this contract that we're going to put out for bid. I go, you're doing
it? I mean, you should be giving it to a contract specialist that does
this for a living, but you're doing it off a boilerplate, and they said,
yes. That's the way we do it here.
I scratched my head a lot and asked a lot of questions, and I go,
that's a novel approach, but with the larger projects that you have, you
run into some issues.
And if we're going to, for instance, in transportation -- you know,
we've come under lots of criticism from the public because we cut a
contract with a boilerplate and we give them a certain period of time
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September 23, 2004
in order to do the contract, and it just so happens that the contractor's
busy for eight months of the two-year period that he's got to build the
road, and the rest of the time he's sitting around doing nothing.
Well, he's busy for the first two months, he's doing nothing for a
year and a half, and then he finally gets going at the end of the
contract so he doesn't get himself in liquidated damages.
If you want to do some things like --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yep.
MR. MUDD: -- put deliverables in those particular contracts at
certain times to make sure that you can lessen the amount of --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Downtime.
MR. MUDD: -- well, downtime, disadvantage, to the taxpayers
of Collier County, you've got to get away from that boilerplate. And
I'll quit talking. I don't want to get this award.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, me, too. And I'm not going
to belabor it, because we'll get together and talk about this some more.
Just to explain my concern so you can be thinking about it. The
only person who really knows how many tons of rock were delivered,
how many truckloads of asphalt were delivered, how many feet of
pipe, how many rain day delays were legitimate in the contract is the
guy that's on the grounds there.
And I am missing the connection between the person who is
responsible for managing that contract on the ground and this contract
administrator who, I presume, is sitting at a desk somewhere here in
the government center. That's what I'm losing here. And you just
need to connect the dots for me.
MR. MUDD: Okay. Guyon the ground--
COMMISSIONER COYLE: No, no, not now. I don't want to
take the time to do it. Just talk to me afterwards, okay?
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Any other questions,
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September 23, 2004
Commissioners?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, are we just taking every
item differently, or can we just -- general discussion about what's on
here?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: We've got 86,000.
MR. MUDD: We're going to talk about the general fund.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's the first question, the
86,000. Is it only 86,000 -- you were saying about a roll back from --
MR. MUDD: Turn back, turn back from the constitutionals.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Turn back.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: But we don't have that now.
MR. MUDD: We won't know -- I won't know that for another 30
days or so, Commissioner, when they finally bring the checks in and
they say this is what it is.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Could we possibly be looking at
things contingent upon that, or is that into the new year budget?
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. As soon as -- as soon as I figure out what
that is versus what the budget is, I'll bring that number to you and
we'll discuss that during communication at a board meeting. And if
you want to bring that back as an item, then we'll bring back this list
or any list that you want and bring that dollar amount, and then get
your direction.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. Could I just ask you
some questions about items down here, the second from the bottom --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I can't ask it? Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: The feasibility study for beach
access through Pelican Bay. I thought we had a study underway.
MR. MUDD: No, sir.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We don't?
MR. MUDD: No, sir. This would be -- this would be a study to
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September 23, 2004
take a look at access through that particular community if the board
desires to see if there's any viable ways to make sure of the legalities
of the particular documents that are there, to see if there's a viable
alternative for the county for access.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Message to the constitutional
officers, please work real hard at that turn back.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: So now, some of the things that have been
suggested to us -- and I think we're all in agreement the guardian ad
litem really needs to be funded. I see nods from this side, on this side
as well.
We've also spoken about the one purchasing agent for the
contract administration section, so just one funded rather than two, and
then we also have a lobbyist, a portion thereof, it was mentioned,
$20,000.
Is that something that all the commissioners feel comfortable
with?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes.
MR. MUDD: The difference between the one person and the ad
va (sic) litem item is about $25,000, Mike just told me on his
calculator.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Guardian ad litem?
MR. MUDD: That would -- there's $25,000 left if you want to
do that to the lobbyist --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: The lobbyist.
MR. MUDD: -- and put it in that -- put it there, and then you use
it as you go along.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: And understand, Commissioners, that that
would just put an appropriation in place. Obviously, if you chose at a
future date not to spend that money, you could either just leave it
within your budget and not spend it, and it would accrue to fund
balance, or at a future date, you could always move it back to reserves
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September 23, 2004
if you made a decision not to employ a lobbyist throughout the
seSSIon, so --
MR. MUDD: But in -- but in any case, to -- before we spend a
dime in that $25,000, you're going to have the approval on the
particular item during a board meeting, okay?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, we would have to.
MR. MUDD: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes. So now what we hear is, I've seen
from this side that they're all in agreement.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And this side as well? Yes. So you've got
our direction?
MR. MUDD: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Very good. Let's move on.
MR. MUDD: Yes, ma'am. And there's nothing in the
unincorporated general fund about -- as far as available funds
concerned. If there's anything in turn back that comes in that
particular fund, we'll bring that back to the board to your attention so
that you can look at that at a future time.
We -- special revenue funds, there's no available funds that I can
determine for the museum on those these particular items, and I think
Mr. Ron Jamro talked about playing soccer versus baseball the other
night, so he owes us a cleansing of that list so that we can bring that
back to you at a future time.
The last piece that's on this particular item is enterprise funds.
Now, these funds are not ad valorem, are not tax funds, they're not the
unincorporated tax funds. These have to do with an enterprise fund,
and this particular fund is 408, and that's in public utilities.
And I'm going to let Mr. Tom Wides lead that discussion off with
you, ma'am, Commissioners.
MR. WIDES: Commissioners, good evening. For the record my
tame is Tom Wides, operations director for public utilities.
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September 23, 2004
As Mr. Mudd has just stated, as an enterprise division, public
utilities is primarily funded by user rates from the water, wastewater,
and solid waste customers.
Our resources are driven to maintain a level of service that
promotes the division's ability to remain in regulatory and good
operating practice compliance while still meeting all of our customers'
demands. In that -- in that vein, we need to maintain a reliable
infrastructure and a safe working environment.
As we look into FY-'05, into fiscal year '05, in the following
years, this division will experience a tremendous addition in plant
capacity and infrastructure throughout the network based on a rapidly
growing population.
As an aside to this point and as we see from our master plans into
the future, we're adding approximately 3,000 water customers a year,
4,000 wastewater customers, and, likewise, 4,000 solid waste
customers.
As a result, our capital spending plans that must be executed over
the next 10 years in accordance with our master plans approach
approximately $1 billion. And you're -- I think you're somewhat
familiar with the number of projects that we have out there into the
future tax acute (sic).
The operating plans -- the operating departments continue
planning for methods to optimize their costs -- optimize their costs,
and optimize the FTEs to successfully accommodate an environment
of high growth and significantly expand the demands based on the
increases in production capacities.
As a result, the division is facing FY-'05 with six unfunded FTEs
that we wish to discuss with you tonight and attain your approval to
execute these and to include these as part of our FY -'05 budget.
In total these unfunded requests -- if you'll turn to page 2C2, they
account for an annual cost of $378,300. There's one line item there for
$26,000 for an SUV that we've deleted, which is the difference
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September 23, 2004
between the 404 and the 378 -- excuse me, the 373.
What we will be doing with these expenses is we will be
generating incremental revenue and avoided costs that amount to
approximately 869,000. So what I'm saying is, for an expenditure of
378,000, we will offset by incremental revenue and avoided costs,
869,000, for a net annual benefit of almost $500,000.
Now, in order to explain those in more depth, we have with us
the individual directors of the departments for each of these FTEs that
will explain the details to you, but if I may, just as briefly as I can, the
utility billing and customer service department has one FTE with an
annual cost of $84,000, little bit over 84,000, but the net annual
benefit will result in $30,000. John Y onkowsky will answer any
questions you have there.
The engineering department has requested two FTEs at an annual
cost of approximately $120,700, generating a net benefit of 162,000.
And generally where that is going to result from is minimizing
agreements with outside contractors or outside engineering firms to do
the work that inherently can be done in house.
And with that 1 O-year business cycle of almost a billion dollars
of expenditure, we're not -- we're not concerned about a short-cycled
employment situation. Roy Anderson will be here to discuss that.
Finally, the wastewater department has requested three FTEs and
one additional vehicle at an annual cost of $173,100, with a net annual
benefit of almost 300,000 -- $299,000. Joe Cheatham, our wastewater
director, is prepared to discuss this request in more detail.
Before I turn the discussion over to the individual directors at
your lead, I would like to ask if there are any other questions in terms
of our unfunded requests.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You -- how many code
enforcement officers do you have?
MR. WIDES: We have approximately, I believe four, but John
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September 23, 2004
will answer that directly for you.
MR. YONKOWSKY: For the record, John Y onkowsky, utility
billing and customer service director. Public utilities division has
three code of enforcement -- certified code enforcement investigators
and a certified supervisor to enforce and gain compliance for the
water, sewer, and solid waste ordinances.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And what your code
enforcement officers really deal with was solid waste, you know,
somebody not putting their bin in on proper time or littering, or litter
on a residence, and things of that nature?
MR. YONKOWSKY: Yes, Commissioner, that used to be the
major function of those code enforcement officers, but we now do the
illegal water for -- illegal water taps, water restrictions, we've got
commercial recycling coming on this year. We are also doing the fats,
oil and grease, or FOG program.
So there is a wide variety, or a wide area that the code
enforcement people in the public utilities division are functioning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: All right. Well, couldn't we let
community development code enforcement handle the litter problem?
I mean, they're out through on all the streets now in the same areas.
MR. DeLONY: Yes, sir. Sir, for the record, Jim DeLony, public
utilities administrator. Joe -- Joe Schmitt and I have talked through
that. Excuse me. I'm sorry. I thought I got your question. Apologize.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I'm a little slow--
MR. DeLONY: Well, me too -- me too, obviously.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- you'll have to bear with me,
okay?
You have the same people going out there in the same places,
and they're supposed to be focused on all code enforcement issues
where your department is just focused on one. Well, in this case
garbage, litter, recycled bins out, garbage containers out, and our
community development should be doing that.
Page 59
September 23, 2004
MR. DeLONY: For the record, Jim DeLony, public utilities
administrator. No, I'm not going to argue with you on that, sir. I think
that is a joint effort. Our folks have got a specified task to also
administer the collections contract with waste management, it's
contracting officers, contacting representatives in that regard.
Fusing the ability to make that direction on the spot with waste
management has been much more effective working it that way with
the code enforcement folks from Joe Schmitt's shop, and that's the way
we've got it set up now.
We don't -- it's not exclusive, but it's mutual. And having this
asset that's real time when we can direct it and fuse the result that we
need based on the customer's complaint or problem with code
enforcement as well as oversight to make sure that that's done from a
contractual standpoint, I believe, is a very effective way to use those
resources in a very cost effective way to provide high quality
customer service.
And I would just like to add a little bit, if I could, about the other
duties. In the fats, oils, and grease program where we're looking at the
grease trap program, these enforcement officers are also responsible
for that.
Joe's folks are not trained to do that, and it would be very
difficult for all 50 plus of Michelle's folks to be as good as these folks
are.
The other area that we've got a specialty in that we spend a lot of
time is looking at water -- water restrictions. Now, no question about
it, we do get help from Joe's folks or Michelle's folks on that, but our
folks have two prong, they're also out there for code enforcement,
they're also out there for education.
So my suggestion and my recommendation has been to keep it
the way it is with not a redundancy in the function, but an
enhancement of our customer service with this current arrangement.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Any other questions from the board
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September 23, 2004
members? Any more comments?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: When Mr. DeLony sits down,
yeah, I'll have a couple.
MR. DeLONY: I'm not going to live that one down.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well, we'll wait for you to sit down then.
MR. DeLONY: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Commissioners, we just -- you
know, I agree that the grease trap and recycling is a specialty. Litter is
not a specialty, and it's just -- you know, places of Golden Gate,
Naples Manor, Golden Gate Estates, Immokalee, and we have over 50
code enforcement officers within Joe's department, and they should be
handling things like that, and I would hope that Mr. DeLony can hand
that over to them and not hire this person and let -- let's diversify the
code enforcement officers that we have today.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I look at what the damage is going
to be if we don't hire somebody of this nature. And the waste, the
grease, ends up getting into our plants and causes us actual
unnecessary, undue costs.
So I really believe that I -- I've been to Mr. DeLony's department
many times, and I'll tell you that it's a very efficient organization.
And as far as 50 code enforcement officers in Joe's area, I still
don't think it's enough for all the problems that we run into constantly
in regards to what goes on in this county. And it's a big -- it's a huge
county, and we've got tremendous amount of growth, and I feel that
we're lacking a lot in code enforcement.
I know in my district alone, I've been after Joe a number of times
in regards to taking care of that. So -- and I'm concerned about --
we're bringing -- spending a lot of money for these sewer plants, and I
feel that DeLony -- justification for the people there is well deserved.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, I appreciate
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September 23, 2004
Commissioner Henning's concern over the cost and investigating the
particular situation to see which is best.
I do see a problem if we don't expand this and meet the needs
outside of code enforcement. Remember, we just recently passed a
housing ordinance as far as the upkeep of housing and businesses. It's
going to require a tremendous amount of time of the existing staff of
code enforcement officers. And for them to take on this additional
burden, I think what we'll have is, we won't have compliance the way
we need it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I'm missing something here. There
are no funds available.
MR. WIDES: Commissioner, in fact, we have approximately
$2.5 million of reserves, of our statutory reserves that are available to
fund these positions.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Let me clarify for, Commissioner. For the
record, Michael Smykowski.
Within your ad valorem tax imported funds, the available UFR
pot, in the case of the general fund, was $86,000, and that resulted
from changes andlor additional revenue receipts above and beyond
that that were initially projected in the budget in June.
The enterprise funds are unique in that they are self-supporting
through their own revenue structure, so they do not have the
conventional available UFR dollars like the general fund or the
unincorporated area would, so there is not a true UFR pot, so to speak,
like there would be in the ad valorem tax imported fund. But they do
have a healthy contingency reserve of in excess of two and a half
million dollars within the county waterlsewer district, so --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, I guess I would hope that
you'd include in the available funds column the total amount of funds
that might be available for this. It might have helped us a bit to get
along here.
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September 23, 2004
But it appears to me that if such is the case and you have excess
reserves, it seems like an issue we talked about earlier this evening,
that we should only determine what level of reserves we need with
respect to our current assumptions about reserve requirements in the
future.
And I'm not going to start trying to micromanage whether or not
you hire one person to do this or one person to do that. There's only
one decision to be made, and that is, how big should the reserve be?
What are your contingencies? What are the reasons you might need
access to reserves? And what does that indicate to you?
MR. WIDES: Commissioner, what we have done is we've
maintained our statutory level of reserves, okay, and the contingencies
are for unexpected activities, okay.
In this case, we've looked at our rates on the solid waste side,
we've looked at our rates on the waterlsewer side. We make our plans
over -- based on our master plans, we make our plans years in
advance, okay. We do try to lock in our FTEs as we think we'll need
them, and because we are planning, and we are planning sometimes 5
and 10 years out, okay, we will have shifts in our actual results versus
what we've planned. So, yes, the reserves will move up and down
somewhat, okay.
So that -- that is the difference between saying, you know, six
months ago I knew it was going to be this, and six months later it's
changed slightly. In fact, we're planning over 12 months to 18 months
out at least in most cases.
MR. MUDD: Commissioners, if I can jump in. Jim Mudd, for
the record. And it's not the Band-Aid, but I just want to talk about the
budget policy that we had.
The budget policy -- and Commissioner Coyle, you and I have
talked about this at great length -- is to -- was to try to hold down the
head count on this particular organization to less than 25.
I did that, first of all, by taking a look at the population that were
Page 63
September 23, 2004
in the divisions now and coming up with a number that they should
proportionally get out of those 25, and then I had the division
administrators and the separate department directors coming forward
with their expanded positions for the year.
And then we talked at great length about why that particular
position needed to be there, and it got to the point in time that, in some
instances, in Mr. DeLony's particular case, that I said, you've got so
many positions, you need to get the most important positions that you
have above the line, and those below the line on the number of counts
you're going to have to put on the unfinanced list, and that's these
particular positions that you're looking at right now.
In Mr. DeLony's particular case, it wasn't because of a lack of
funds or the proportion from the ad valorem that we were worrying on
the county manager's side of the house to try to contain. It was
sheerly that body count had to get less than 25.
So in some cases it was a little artificial in his particular case, but
he's proportioned, he's part of the county, and we're trying to hold
those -- we're trying to hold those positions down because positions
and people's salaries and their health benefits and whatnot are some of
our biggest costs.
And it is a -- if you have that person, you don't normally cut them
with a growing community. You're always talking about expandage
(sic ). You're not talking about people you lose.
And now I have to say Mr. Schmitt was one exception because
he did reorganization and cut some positions in his particular
organization in the last couple of years in different departments. Code
enforcement has been one where there's been additional folks that
have come on.
But I would say it's more of an artificial constraint. On Mr.
DeLony's side of the house it's not so much a monetary constraint, but
it was an artificial one that we were trying to hold the head counts
down.
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September 23, 2004
COMMISSIONER COYLE: But here is the trap that everyone
seems to fall into. If you remove money from reserves to fund
operating expenses and your revenue is lower next year, you have
added staff that you have to pay next year, right?
MR. WIDES: Commissioner, if I may respond to that. In fact,
what I'm saying about these positions is, as opposed to reducing
reserves, our intent is to either, A, increase revenues, okay, from --
whether it be more citations being issued because we're out there
being able to find the issues, or whether it's reducing the expenses
from outside consultants to fund or to, in fact, monitor our capital
projects. Either way, we're reducing somewhere else, not reducing
reserves or adding to revenues.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: So you're telling me this is
essentially revenue --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Generator.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- neutral?
MR. WIDES: This is either revenue positive or expense
beneficial.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Then I can't quarrel with
that. There's nothing wrong with that logic.
MR. WIDES: That's where we have to step forward. And that's
what our folks have done in terms of coming up with these net
benefits that I've actually mentioned here today.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: So you know, if you can assure me
that that's what it's going to be, revenue positive or expense beneficial,
then as far as I'm concerned, do it.
MR. WIDES: I would like to let each individual director respond
to that positively, because I can, and I will, but I think they can tell
you from their own position exactly what's going on in their
departments.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'd like to move on.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah.
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September 23,2004
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'd just like to say one thing, that
if we're going to do that, this code enforcement officer, I want to bring
back on a regular agenda about diversifying what that officer does,
and I just want to let you know that if we're going to generate
revenues for citations, the commissioners are going to start getting
calls about a 20 or $50 fine because I didn't bring my garbage can in at
SIX p.m.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: No. I think what they're talking
about is where they're going to generate revenues when somebody is
in violation of pouring grease in a sewer system or pouring anything
else into a sewer system that doesn't belong there. I think that's where
they're going with this.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I hope you're right.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I think that's where this is going,
yes. And this is not going to be a $20 violation. These violations are
going to be a lot heavier than that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Hopefully they're just in District
2.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: You just raised a question that
prompts me to ask one other question.
Now, when you said that these would essentially have a neutral
effect upon the budget, you're talking about all of these positions or
only about the code enforcement position?
MR. WIDES: I'm talking about each position having a net
benefit put against the cost incurred or basically -- each position, each
of those, I believe, four positions, five.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Wait a minute. Each of the four or
five, what positions?
MR. WIDES: Let me -- if I could. I'll walk you through them.
MR. MUDD: They're right here on this slide on this overhead, if
you can help him, Tom.
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September 23, 2004
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I see six.
MR. WIDES: Okay. First off, the third position down we were
talking about was the code enforcement for financial operations. That
has a cost of approximately 64 -- excuse me.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Eighty-four; 84,5.
MR. WIDES: Eyes aren't quite what they used to be, 84,5.
We intend to generate incremental revenue of $114,000, for a net
benefit on that position of $30,000. And if interested, I'm prepared to
tell you where that -- where that incremental 114,000 comes from this
evening. Okay.
Let's go to the two project -- or the two engineering positions.
One is a project manager for engineering, $68,000 of annual cost.
Cost avoidance of $195,000. Net benefit, 127. Again --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Tom, you don't need to read those
figures to me.
MR. WIDES: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I see them. That's the kind of
budgeting I like. It makes sense. It justifies the reason you need the
people.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Any other comments from
commissioners?
(N 0 response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you, Tom.
MR. WIDES: You're welcome. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Next? Next? I don't know who's coming
up next for us.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We're done with the UFR.
MR. WIDES: We would like to ask for your approval of these
unfunded positions though before we break.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, we've got to vote on it.
MR. WIDES: Or disapproval.
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September 23, 2004
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Well Commissioners?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Approval.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Everybody's nodding.
MR. WIDES: Commissioners, thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Item #2D
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Next item, Commissioners, there was a
question brought up. Mr. Bill Dearborn was a speaker at the first
public hearing relative to funding for the Juvenile Assessment Center.
As you'll recall, you adopted an ordinance imposing an additional
$65 in court costs to fund programming within the court area. The
additional proposed budget had shown -- reflected all of -- one of the
25 percent categories was for teen court. We had shown 100 percent
of that 25 percent piece or $160,000 within the teen court budget.
Mr. Dearborn spoke at the first public hearing requesting that half
of those funds of that 25 percent, or $80,000, be applied toward
funding of the Juvenile Assessment Center operation.
And he had spoken with the court folks, Mr. Mark Middlebrook,
who was also in attendance and nodded agreement that that was
acceptable to the court system, and Mr. Dearborn had also spoken
with Chief Judge Hayes as well.
We just want your concurrence. We didn't take any formal vote
or action. I believe it was understood that that was amenable to the
board, but we just wanted to be clear before we made that final change
to the budget, and Mr. Dearborn was here as well, and obviously was
interested in the final disposition of his request.
And if there are no questions from the board relative to that, it
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September 23, 2004
would be our intent to make that change as initially proposed by Mr.
Dearborn but agreed to by the court staff.
And again, the available funding will depend on the actual court
fees that are actually collected, because those are based on felony and
misdemeanor. Obviously in felony cases, when people are in jail,
their ability to generate revenue to pay their -- pay their outstanding
fines is somewhat limited.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Everybody's in agreement then?
MR. MUDD: And you're not really shorting the teen court
because they have a pretty good reserve in there. They had funding to
fund them through 2007 before the 60 -- before the $64 issue came up
that we approved, that the board approved earlier.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And the court representatives are --
MR. MUDD: They're fine with this.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Very good. Let's move it on.
MR. MUDD: Ma'am, Mr. Bill Dearborn is signed up to speak on
this.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
MR. DEARBORN: Can I come forward now?
MR. MUDD: Yeah, come on, Bill
MR. DEARBORN: Having heard the board's approval--
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sir, up to the microphone, please, and
state your name.
MR. DEARBORN: Bill Dearborn, from the -- representing the
Collier County Juvenile Justice Council. And as chairman of the
Juvenile Assessment Center, I just wanted to thank the board for its
continued support by its action here this evening, and I'd like to thank
the county manager and Mike Smykowski for working with us to get
that done.
Thank you very much.
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September 23, 2004
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you, sir.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: That was the only public speaker slip I
had.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Do we have any other speakers, by the
way?
MS. STONE: Yes, Madam Chairman, You have three speakers
registered to the speak on the sheriffs budget.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, okay, fine. We'll -- thank you. I'll
call back to them at that time. Thank you.
Next?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Where we at?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I think we're on --
MR. SMYKOWSKI: We're finishing our public speakers. There
are -- there are three that are registered to speak on the sheriffs
budget.
MR. MUDD: And then before you have to -- before you finally
approve the budget, and Mike will take you through those resolutions,
you need to come to some kind of agreement based on your propose --
your earlier proposal about the $2.5 million.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Now, we're going to be discussing the
sheriffs budget within this, or are we first going to --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: (Nods head.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. So--
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Our recommendation would be you hear
from the public speakers before you entertain a motion as to the
funding of the sheriffs budget.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, fine. Would you call our public
speakers?
MS. STONE: Yes. You have two public speakers. One
withdrew, the sheriff is no longer going to speak. Burt Saunders and
Crystal Kinzel. And I think you may want to leave it up to them which
one of them wants to go first.
Page 70
.._-~"-""_.,,...,,._,.
September 23, 2004
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Look likes they're both going to
talk at the same time.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: They're going to go at the same
time.
SENATOR SAUNDERS: Madam Chair, if I might. Again, Burt
Saunders with the Gray Robinson law firm representing the sheriff.
We are here to speak on the issue of the $2.5 million that may be
taken out of overtime. I don't know if the commission is going to
entertain that motion. So that's why we're here. If that's not going to
be a motion, then we don't need to speak. So that's why we're here.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Those are our two speakers?
MS. STONE: Two speakers.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. And you're talking about 2.5 taken
out of overtime, you said?
SENATOR SAUNDERS: My understanding, Madam Chair,
from the last commission meeting that ended prior to the budget
hearing tonight, was that there may be a motion to take $2.5 million
out of the sheriffs line item for overtime to make up for the $2.5
million that was taken out of the '03/'04 reserves during your previous
meeting.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: No, no. If I were to make the
motion, and I'm not sure I will or that I'm the one that's going to do it,
but since I brought the issue up, I'll at least explain my position.
I would not presume to tell the sheriff where he takes his money
from. It is the sheriffs responsibility to decide where money is used,
and he can do it a lot better than I can. But I certainly would support
the reduction of the FY-'05 budget by an amount of$2.5 million, and
then it will be the sheriffs responsibility to decide where he wants to
cut that money.
SENATOR SAUNDERS: Then, Madam Chair, I would like to
address that issue in terms of the $2.5 million cut, and Crystal Kinzel
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September 23, 2004
may have some comments also.
First, I just want to make it perfectly clear. I'm the lawyer, so I --
my job tonight is to protect the interest of the sheriff.
And I want to advise the board that I don't believe there's any --
any logic to simply saying tonight, you're going to take $2.5 million
out of the sheriffs overall budget.
And the reason I say that is that you've had budget hearings,
you've had a budget document that has been presented, and you've
suggested changes to that, and we're now at the final budget hearing,
and there is no evidence of any kind to support the -- what I would
describe as arbitrary decision by the board tonight to simply say, we're
going to cut $2.5 million from your budget, Mr. Sheriff, you go find
out where that $2.5 million is going to come from.
I would submit that that certainly upsets the -- what I would
describe as a delicate balance and a compromise that has been arrived
at with the sheriff and the county commission in terms of where your
budget is tonight.
The amount of money that the county was planning on
appropriating for the sheriffs budget is substantially less than what the
sheriff had requested in his original budget document.
And to now say to the sheriff, well, in addition to those cuts that
we've already agreed to, we've already discussed, we're going to
simply take $2.5 million in addition, I think, is arbitrary and
capricious, not supported by any -- any factual evidence.
And on behalf of the sheriff, I would obj ect to that and advise the
board that the sheriff does have certain appeal rights, and I just want
the board to know that you may be forcing the sheriff into exercising
those rights. I'm the lawyer making that statement. That's not coming
from the sheriff. That's coming from me as his -- as his legal counsel.
Let me -- let me point out one other thing, if I might, as we have
this conversation. You have a policy to require a reduction in what
the anticipated personnel expense will be by four percent. That's your
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September 23, 2004
attrition that you apply. You apply that to all your departments with
the exception of Emergency Medical Services, Ochopee Fire, and the
tax collector, and you apply that to the sheriffs budget already.
Now, we've already had testimony that the sheriff is 100 percent
staffed up, and there's every reason to believe that during the '05 fiscal
year, that the sheriff will continue to be staffed up.
So you're already starting off with a four percent reduction in his
personnel line item that is unrealistic and has already been shown to
be inaccurate. Now you're saying that you're going to add another
$2.5 million in cuts on top of that already, and I would submit that
that's just not appropriate.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay . Your time wasn't up, so I was just
waiting, but fine and dandy.
SENATOR SAUNDERS: Oh, that's all. I just want to preserve
the sheriffs rights.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Crystal, you were also registered to
speaker -- as a speaker, excuse me.
MS. KINZEL: Commissioners, I just wanted to basically get one
quick thing into the record, because it was regarding the overtime
issue, and I know that was a concern about the growth. And I think
that -- if you can help me on the visualizer again.
Weare -- and if you look at this over a long period of history, our
forecast for this year, yes, is $8 million. And what we've included in
the '05 budget for overtime is actually about $6 million, so that is a $2
million plus reduction in what we anticipate in overtime costs for next
year.
So I wanted to comfort the commission a little bit. I think you
were concerned that our overtime just kept growing and growing and
growing in subsequent years. But if you look at what we actually are
proj ecting to occur in '04 in our budget, we are cutting back in the
actual dollars that we're going to be spending.
In fact, if you go back to that level and you would try to take out
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September 23, 2004
another 2 and a half million, you're looking at a $4 million budget,
which goes clear back to our '02 actual type of costs. Now, that was
before significant pay plan adjustments or increases in cost of living
adjustments that have come to staff.
If you divide those dollars by the hours when they are at a higher
rate, you're looking at less and less hours available to work for
overtime.
And as we tried to put in the record previously, that would
include anything from code orange, that the sheriff mentioned, to
other incidents or events that we might have throughout Collier
County; tornadoes touching down, things that may not be events of the
caliber of a FEMA reimbursement but certainly have to be made
available and are necessary for certified law enforcement officer
response.
We see the most -- the majority of our overtime are in very
specific areas. The jail, we're hoping that that does go down, and it
has gone down in the last couple of pay periods now that we're seeing
those academy staffing coming onboard. So we are seeing some
reduction.
We have overtime in road patrol, but that's minimal. And
dispatch, we are filling those positions. As soon as they come out of
the dispatch academy and training, we're also hoping to see a
reduction.
But we are budgeting and forecasting a reduction to what we
have actually experienced, even though it is an increase to the budget.
Because as I explained, we try to budget salaries, in addition to
overtime, and where's that fine point of vacancies, plus the overtime
rate.
In any year we're still looking at that four percent reduction right
off the top; 3.2 million this year, and you're looking at an additional
four in '0 -- four percent in '05.
We're going in fully staffed. I'm going to have to have some
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September 23, 2004
assurance of an access to reserve, and we will try to make it, but we're
probably going to be coming back to ask for those attrition dollars
because we're fully staffed.
If in addition to that you're considering another $2 and a half
million reduction, we are 80 percent staffing in people. We have just
now been able to get fully staffed, recruit and retain qualified
members to the agency. We don't want to see those kinds of
reductions in labor or reductions in force.
So I just wanted to get up and put into the record some of the
overtime issues that I know you're concerned about.
And just to add, we did work with the board during the
workshops, and just to remind you that we came up with about 3.6
million reduction in costs simply by phasing in positions and working
with the board what we thought was a reasonable compromise on a lot
of these slots that we're looking to to '05, including to open a brand
new jail, which will almost double our capacity when it does come
online.
We have a lot of things that are unknown. We don't know the
timing exactly on that j ail construction. So we have a lot of ifs in
2005, and I would just request that the board take those into
consideration before you consider reducing the sheriffs budget any
further.
And that's all I have. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes. In Tuesday's board meeting
when we discussed this, you made it very prevalent that you were
going to be back after more money even before we even -- start --
discussed about how we were going to address the $2.5 million. You
made it very clear to me that you were coming back and getting some
more money next year, before we even got to this point in the thing.
And as far -- as far as labor reduction, I don't think you have to
do anything in labor reduction. I -- you know, I've been in the
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September 23, 2004
corporate world, and when somebody says, you're going to make a
cost reduction, there's lots of places that can be administered where
cost reduction does not involve the workforce itself. So I just -- that's
what concerns me, okay?
MS. KINZEL: Okay. Well, Commissioner, the only reason I
mentioned that is, remember, our full staffing budget that we had
proposed to the board started out at about --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I heard that.
MS. KINZEL: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I understand that.
MS. KINZEL: You take $3.6 million away from that, starting in
October, if I'm fully staffed, I'm already behind the eight-ball $3.6
million.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: You don't have to replace all the
cars every couple of years then.
MS. KINZEL: My entire automobile budget is not 3.6 in
replacement. And then you get behind in your capital replacement of
assets for deputies out on the road that are putting miles on these cars
to patrol over 2,000 square miles of the county.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And about 70 percent of that is in
preserve of some kind, I believe.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: One of the questions I had, Crystal, was,
in year '03, according to your figures, you needed $4 million in
overtime because you were understaffed, and in '04, you needed $8
million in overtime because you weren't fully staffed, And in '05, now
that you're fully staffed, you need $6 million in overtime.
And somehow, you know, we kept -- we kept approving the
overtime, even though it was rather -- in my opinion, rather exorbitant
because you weren't fully staffed. And I wanted to see you fully
staffed, and now it's fully staffed and now it's $6 million overtime
when you've got a full staff.
MS. KINZEL: Okay.
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September 23, 2004
CHAIRMAN FIALA: It doesn't compute to me.
MS. KINZEL: Okay, Commissioner, let me explain. It goes --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: It's not going anywhere.
MS. KINZEL: -- into several of those issues. Whether or not
they're fully trained and taking up the full capacity of the position over
the course of the year, so even though they're hired and we're paying
their salary, you still have that learning curve, and so there will be
some overtime to take up those positions.
I'll give you another example. We had almost -- oh, I can't
remember exactly the hours, but things like Family Medical Leave
Act. Federal rules and regulations have impacted us in our staffing.
And as in an office environment, if I'm not there today, I don't need to
be replaced. We don't have that luxury in our emergency services
capacities.
For the jail, for road patrol, for dispatch, if someone's out on a
maternity leave for 12 weeks, if they're out on illness for 12 weeks,
that all has to be staffed with overtime positions.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Are we done with the public
speakers?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes, we are.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I think the sheriff might be with
us?
SHERIFF HUNTER: I'm still here, and yes, when the time is
appropriate, Madam Chair, I'd love to make a couple of comments.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. It looks like the time is
appropriate.
SHERIFF HUNTER: Great. Because this overtime issue is such
a difficult item to understand unless you live it, of course, much like
your EMS group. The best I can do tonight would be to give you
some examples.
And I will try to do that again, because it still seems to be one of
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September 23, 2004
the catch points for the board to understand the agency issue,
especially the 6 million that we're budgeting again next year, that is an
increase from the 4 million we've budgeted but less than what we
actually expended this year. And--
CHAIRMAN FIALA: No, I think you expended 8 million this
year.
SHERIFF HUNTER: Right. We're expending 8 million, so
therefore, the next year's proposal is a $2 million decrease from what
we're spending this year. We think we will have some decline in the
overtime budget.
But I want to give you a sense of what's happening here. Overall,
the agency is good because the county health and -- public safety
health is good for Collier County. Our crime rates are good, but that
doesn't -- that's not magic. It really does require tactical involvement
of the agency for crime suppression, and I want to give you a sense of
that.
Besides the code orange and code red and the hurricanes and
other catastrophic events that are placed upon the agency and your
own EMS crews, there are other things that happen to us, such as, we
will get threats from time to time from an organized group.
It may be direct threats against a deputy or group of deputy
sheriffs, and we will exercise a special enforcement effort. We will
from time to time, as in crime prevention weeks and national night
out, have mass deployments where we attempt to create an absolute
zero crime, no activity night.
We can't do that on an ongoing basis because we're not staffed
for that, but we do attempt to do it from time to time to show the force
and to try to keep this county safe.
We do incur overtime from time to time when that occurs
because we will do these things at the end of a pay period. Sometimes
we're able to balance hours. We don't accumulate compo time,
however, as you do. We -- because that simply causes additional
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September 23, 2004
suffering in terms of staffing.
I will assure the board that we're doing all that we can and we'll
work with the board to do even more and better with -- again, I'm
offering monthly meetings. We're going to work with you to try to
limit the overtime expenditures of the agency, but I also want you to
be fully informed on what those overtime expenditures go for, rather
than simply adopting the position that that's too much.
I do want you to understand how it's incorporated into the taxable
operations for crime suppression of the agency. And let's not kill our
efforts on the street and in our investigative groups by discussing these
things. It's very important matters, we should be discussing them, but
let's not just simply adopt a position that they're inappropriate simply
because it's a -- it's a number that is uncomfortable to the board.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We done with public speakers?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The board -- the board asked
our agency and our constitutional officers to stay within a budget
policy of 11.1 percent -- if I'm correct, Mr. Mudd -- and what -- the
sheriffs budget increase was 19.66 of 122.75, almost .76, million
dollars.
And if it is the board's wishes to cut $1.5 (sic) million, that's less
than two percent, and that still would give the sheriff 17 -- 17 percent,
and where we tried, or we did, stay within the 11 percent, and the
constitutional officers.
So I don't think it's a -- if somebody was to make that motion, I
probably would support it. But if somebody would make a motion to
cut the sheriffs budget and give direction where to do it, I will not
support it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I agree.
Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Then I'll make the motion that the
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September 23, 2004
sheriffs budget for FY-'05 be reduced by $2.5 million and that the
sheriff has the discretion to manage his budget, manage his personnel,
and manage his overtime hopefully to reduce the very, very high
expenditures that have occurred in the past. And that's my motion.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
Commissioner Henning? Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The discussion about keeping
the budget at the rate of growth in Collier County is responsible
government, and if we go out of that on our side, then that is just
growing government. So I'm proud that we had this discussion and
direction for local government.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Any further discussion?
(N 0 response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All those in favor, say aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
(N 0 response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. That passes unanimously.
SHERIFF HUNTER: Madam Chair, may I just ask for a point of
clarification?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Certainly.
SHERIFF HUNTER: The motion as you approved -- I'm not
sure if it incorporates the four percent reduction, the 3. -- which would
be approximately, if I understand correctly -- about 3.2 million, plus
the 3.6 million previously agreed to, plus the 2 and a half million,
totaling to roughly almost $8 million; is that what you're suggesting?
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September 23, 2004
Or is this a formal vote and we're talking about besides the four
percent that has been the policy of the board to remove, you're going
another 2 and a half million?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The -- I think the last time that
we discussed the budget, the sheriffs budget -- correct me if I'm
wrong -- what was the figure on that?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: 16 million--
COMMISSIONER COYLE: It was 121 million, wasn't it?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: 121, yes.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It was less than that, I think.
SHERIFF HUNTER: Well, I think that's my confusion.
Commissioner Henning --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: It's $121,729,900, and we said
we're going to cut it by 2 and a half, and I think that comes out about
$119,229,000.
SHERIFF HUNTER: So all told, approximately $8 million
decrease?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Or a $17 million increase--
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- depending on which way you
look at it.
SHERIFF HUNTER: Well, and we had some --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: It's a $17 million increase.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yeah. By policy -- for the record, Michael
Smykowski.
By policy, we took the four percent up front in attrition. That
was already incorporated into his budget request. The change from
the sheriffs initially proposed budget involved a shift to impact fees, a
correctional capital to impact fees of 406,000, and shifting law
enforcement capital to the impact fee yet to be adopted of 931 ,000.
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September 23, 2004
The other two changes involved -- well, we're talking about
reductions. They were delays in hiring 27 law enforcement staff, that
was 1,109,100, and the delay in hiring of 30 correctional officers,
which was 1,246,700.
That was your starting base point tonight that had already backed
out the attrition and the changes that we made during the budget
workshops during June that had already been agreed to. Above and
beyond that we're talking about $2 and a half million.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Wait a minute. You're going to
have to go over those figures again, because I think there is some
confusion.
What is the -- what is the sheriffs preliminary budget approval
for FY-'05 before we walked in here tonight?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: $121 million.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I'm not sure it is.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Inclusive of board paid expenses, it's
121,729,900. That's board paid expenses of 2,263,000, and the
sheriffs operations budget, his 040 fund of 119,066,900.
SHERIFF HUNTER: And that's a reduction, Mike, of the 3.6
million that we discussed previously?
MR. MUDD: Yes.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: So, Mike, what figure are we
talking about if we subtract the 2.5 million from him?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: 119 million.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: $119,229,900.
MR. MUDD: And that's inclusive of the board?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Inclusive of the board paid expenses.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. That's the total. Okay.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Then that's where I thought we
were.
Page 82
September 23, 2004
SHERIFF HUNTER: If I may then, Madam Chairman, just for
the record, in creating this record, I need to make the board aware,
again, that four percent attrition appears to be a policy that will not fit
the agency's experience this year, and I would, again, ask the board to
make the proper reservation of reserve fund that we may come back
before the board to make any adjustments in agency budget at year
end this next fiscal year.
I would also like to, one more time, make it plain to the board
that the 2.5 million that we've requested tonight is for positions
previously approved by the board from reserves previously approved
by the board to be expended by the agency if needed with exactly the
same caveats I've just made to you, that last year we went through the
same process.
It now seems to be a surprise to the board that we have asked for
the full funding because we have filled the vacancies we assured the
board we would fill.
I'm, just for the record, making you aware that the four percent
attrition appears not to fit our experience and that that policy may
need some adjustments, similar to what you do with your EMS
department, that you need to recognize public safety, and I'm asking
you to do that in future years.
Secondly, the 2.5 was requested of the board from existing
reserves, already approved positions, and this -- I want to make this a
smoother process in the future.
The additional cuts that were made tonight are goings to be
difficult, and I need to consult with staff, because I'm a bit surprised.
We'd already worked this out with staff at your direction for the 3.6
million, which is a very significant reduction when we're faced with
hiring 60 additional jail deputies to staff the expansion of the jail,
which has been postponed for over 20 years.
And I'm very surprised by the board action. I will certainly be
getting back with you. I do appreciate the support that you've been
Page 83
September 23, 2004
able to give. But I do caution that I think we just made some severe
cuts.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Sheriff
Hunter.
Are there any further comments from the board members?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, yeah. I would like to
emphasize that we've been talking about cuts in the sheriffs budget. I
would like to point out that what we have actually done is added $1 7
million --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: From last year.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- to the sheriffs budget from last
year, $17 million were added to the sheriffs budget from last year, and
that is about a 1 7 percent increase, which is the highest increase for
any, any element of Collier County government.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you for pointing that out. Okay.
Item #2E
RESOLUTION 2004-293 AMENDING THE TENTATIVE
Onto the next subj ect.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes, Commissioner. That moves us to
item 2E, which is a resolution to amend the tentative budgets, which
would reflect the changes you've made tonight.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Move to approve.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Motion on the floor to move the
resolution amending the tentative budgets for FY-2004 and to '05.
Motion by Commissioner Coyle -- or Henning, seconded by
Commissioner Coyle. Thank you.
All those in favor?
Page 84
September 23, 2004
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm sorry. Question.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Sure. I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Does this request everything
that we just got through doing, too?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: It will, yes -- yes, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: You might want to add that to
that, just to make sure that it's not a boilerplate --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's what Mr. Mike
Smykowski did state.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. Forgive me.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yeah. We will be incorporating any
changes we've made up at the hearing tonight, up to and inclusive of
the --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Forgive me.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: -- $2 and a half million motion that was
just approved.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All those in favor, say aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
(No response.)
Item #2F
PUBLIC READING OF THE TAXING AUTHORITY LEVYING
Page 85
September 23, 2004
MILLAGE, THE NAME OF THE TAXING AUTHORITY, THE
ROLLED-BACK RATE, THE PERCENTAGE INCREASE, AND
THE MILLAGE RATE TO BE LEVIED - READ INTO THE
RECORD AS RE.QllIRE.D.-BY ,A W
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Item 2F is a public reading of the taxing
authority rolled levying millage, the name of the taxing authority, the
rolled back rate, the percentage increase, and the millage rate to be
levied, as item 2F.
The general fund has a rolled back rate of 3.5899 and a proposed
millage rate of 3.8772; 8 percent increase over the rolled back.
Water pollution control, the rolled back rate, .0321 mills,
proposed millage, .0347 mills; 8.1 percent increase.
Unincorporated area general fund, the rolled back rate is .7458
mills, the proposed millage rate, .8069. It's an increase of 8.2 percent.
The Golden Gate Community Center is .237 --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Excuse me. Can you tell us what
page you're on, Mike?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Are we going to read all these
things?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Can't you just put them on the
visualizer and let everybody see them?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: No, sir. The statute requires a full reading
of all of those before you take a vote adopting the resolution setting
the millage rate. It's item 2F, page one.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You know, we don't have an F.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I don't have 2F.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Oh, it's the same page 2A.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: 2A, page one, is identical.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Page 86
September 23, 2004
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Oh.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: The Golden Gate Community Center,
which is under the MSTU as the second item, it's fund 230, is point--
a rolled back rate of .2370 mills, proposed millage of .2357. That's a
decrease of one half percent.
Naples Park Drainage, rolled back rate .0054 mills, proposed
millage, .0090; 66.7 percent increase.
Pine Ridge Industrial Park, the rolled back rate, .0551 mills,
proposed is .1028 mills, or 86.6 percent.
Victoria Park Drainage, rolled back, .1796, proposed, .5179.
That's an increase of 188.4 percent.
Naples Underground FPL, there is no rolled back rate. The
proposed millage is .0839 mills.
Golden Gate Parkway Beautification, the rolled back rate is
.4645 mills, the adopted or proposed millage rate is .5. That's a 7.6
percent increase.
Naples Production Park, rolled back .0122 mills, proposed, .0340
mills. That's an increase of 178.7 percent.
Vanderbilt Beach MSTU, rolled back is .4524, proposed is one
half mill, an increase of 10.5 percent.
Isle of Capri Fire, rolled back rate, 1.3561, proposed, 1.5 mills,
an increase of 10.6 percent.
Ochopee Fire, rolled back, 3.7360, proposed, 4 mills, an increase
of 7.1 percent.
Collier County Fire, the rolled back rate, 2.0024, the proposed
millage is 2 mills; that's a decrease of a tenth of a percent.
GoodlandlHorrs Island Fire MSTU, the rolled back rate, .5167,
proposed, .4746 mills, a decrease of 8.1 percent.
Radio Road Beautification, rolled back is .4671, the proposed
millage is .25. It's a decrease of 46.5 percent.
Sabal Palm Road MSTU, there was no rolled back rate, as there
was no levy in fiscal year '04. The proposed is 2.1584 mills.
Page 87
September 23, 2004
Lely Golf Estates Beautification, rolled back, 1.8397, proposed 2
mills, 8.7 percent increase.
Hawks Ridge Stormwater Pumping MSTU, rolled back .0294
mills, proposed, .2882 mills; an increase of 880.3 percent.
Forest Lakes Roadway and Drainage MSTU, the rolled back rate,
2.6834, proposed 3 mills. It's an increase of 11.8 percent.
Immokalee Beautification MSTU, the rolled back rate, .9879,
proposed 1 mill; that's an increase of 1.2 percent.
Bayshore Avalon Beautification, the rolled back rate, 1.8322
mills, the proposed is 1.75 mills, a decrease of 4.5 percent.
Livingston Road, Phase II MSTU, rolled back rate, .2532. There
is no proposed tax levy. That's a decrease of 100 percent.
Conservation Collier is a proposed -- rolled back of .2315,
proposed, .25 mills, an increase of 8 percent.
The Parks GOB Debt Service, there is no rolled back or proposed
levies, nor is there any rolled back rate or proposed for Isle of Capri
Municipal Rescue Debt Service.
The Collier County Lighting District is .1412 mills, rolled back;
proposed .1250, a decrease of 11.5 percent.
Naples Production Park street lighting, there is no proposed levy,
there is no rolled back rate.
Pelican Bay MSTBU, rolled back rate is .1267 mills, the
proposed is .1433. That's an increase of 13.1.
The aggregate millage rate, factoring in all of these taxing
districts, the rolled back rate is 4.4441 mills, the proposed millage,
4.7949. That's an increase of7.89 percent.
That concludes item 2F.
Item #2G
RESOLUTION 2004-294 SETTING THE MILLAGE RATES-
A.D.ŒITED
Page 88
September 23, 2004
Item 2G is an adoption of a resolution setting the millage rate. I
will need two separate motions, one for the dependent districts, which
includes the water pollution control and the Conservation Collier tax
levy, and the second motion would be -- would incorporate the
balance of the MSTU s that I've just enumerated.
So the first motion, setting the millages, would be for the two
dependent districts. I would need a motion to that effect.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. So for the first -- the first motion
would be setting the millage rate for the two dependent districts?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'll make that motion.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I have a motion by Commissioner
Halas, second by Commissioner Coletta.
Any discussion on that?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All those in favor, say aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: That's unanimous.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Okay. Now we'd need a motion for the
balance of the taxing districts, exclusive of the dependent districts that
you just voted on.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I make a motion to that effect.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. Motion to accept by
Commissioner Halas, second by Commissioner Coletta.
Page 89
September 23, 2004
Any discussion?
(N 0 response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All those in favor, say aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign.
(N 0 response.)
Item #2H
RESOLUTION 2004-295 ADOPTING THE FINAL BUDGET BY
EI.lND - A DOEIED
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Our final item, 2H, a resolution to adopt
the final budget by fund. Again, we'll need two motions, one for the
two dependent districts. That would be the first motion, Madam
Chair.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Move to approve the dependent
district.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: The dependent districts, again, inclusive of
the water pollution control and the Conservation Collier.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Move to approve.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Second it.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. So I have a motion to approve by
Commissioner Henning, a second by Commissioner Halas.
All those in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
Page 90
September 23, 2004
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: And our final motion then, Madam Chair,
is to adopt the final budget by fund for the balance of the funds, again,
excluding the dependent districts that you just voted on.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So moved.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay. I have a motion to approve by
Commissioner Henning and a second by Commissioner Halas.
All those in favor, say aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: With that, we are finished.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Good. The meeting is adjourned.
Page 91
September 23,2004
*****
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 8:08 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARDS(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
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DONNA IALA, ChaIrman
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DWI~ì-Ì1~J3. B~~J(, CLERK
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These minutes approved by the Board o~D .- Jw.- d1:l? f ,(1 as
presented ~ or as corrected .
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT
REPORTING SERVICES, INC. BY TERRI LEWIS.
Page 92