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CLB Minutes 09/15/2004 R September 15, 2004 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD Naples, Florida September 15, 2004 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Contractors' Licensing Board, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: ACTING CHAIRMAN: Richard Joslin David L. Beswick Sydney Blum Eric Guite' Ann Keller ALSO PRESENT: Thomas Bartoe, Licensing Compliance Officer Robert Zachary, County Attorney Patrick Neale, Counsel to the Board Page 1 AGENDA COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD DATE: SEPTEMBER 15, 2004 TIME: 9:00 A.M. W. HARMON TURNER BUILDING (ADMINISTRATION BUILDING) COURTHOUSE COMPLEX ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THAT TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED. I. ROLL CALL II. ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS: III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA: IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: DATE: July 21,2004 V. DISCUSSION: 1. The Longshoremans' & Harbor Workers Compensation Act. 2. Jay E. Bowermeister, Gainesville Independent Testing Service, LLC Information on his company as an alternative to our current testing company. VI. NEW BUSINESS: Sidney J. Hubschman - Request to reinstate the county Swimming Pool Commercial license Without retesting. Alan Soares - Request to qualify a 2nd entity. Marcio J. Guequelin - Request to qualify a 2nd entity. Tobias Simmons - Request to qualify a 2nd entity. VII. OLD BUSINESS: VIII PUBLIC HEARINGS: IX. REPORTS: X. NEXT MEETING DATE: Wednesday, October 20,2004 -------- September 15, 2004 ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Call to order the meeting of Collier County Contractor Licensing Board, September 15th, 2004. At this time, any person who decides to appeal a decision of this board will need a record of the proceedings pertaining thereto and, therefore, may need to ensure that a verbatim record of the proceedings is made, which record includes that testimony and evidence upon which the appeal is to be based. With all this understood, I will start with my -- roll call to my right. MR. BESWICK: David Beswick. MS. KELLER: Anne Keller. MR. BLUM: Sid Blum. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Richard Joslin. MR. GUITE': Eric Guite'. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Staff, is there any additions or deletions to the agenda? MR. BAR TOE: Good morning. For the record, I'm Tom Bartoe, Collier County licensing compliance officer. We have one change in the agenda: Item Number 4, approval of the minutes. That date, July 21, is a mistake. That's August 18 minutes, as you can see by the packet you received. Staff has no other additions or deletions for the agenda, but staff does have an addition to staff. We have a new boss. I'd like to introduce him now. The new Director of Building Review and Permitting, Mr. Bill Hammond. MR. HAMMOND: Good morning. For the record, I'm Bill Hammond. I'd like to thank the board for giving me a chance to stop by and introduce myself and just say to you that if there's anything I can do or this department can do to help the board, assist the board in any way, please let us know and we'll be glad to do that. And I look forward to working closely with you all. Thank you very much. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Hammond, it's a pleasure Page 2 --.. September 15,2004 to have you today. If we have no other things, we need an approval of the agenda. Motion for approval? MR. BLUM: So moved, Blum. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Second? MR. GUITE': I'll second, Guite'. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion and second. All in favor? MR. BESWICK: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye. So moved. We need approval of the minutes dated July -- I'm sorry, dated August 18th, 2004. Everyone's read the packet, I assume? MR. BESWICK: Motion to approve, Beswick. MR. BLUM: Second, Blum. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Motion and second. All in favor? MR. BESWICK: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye. Under discussion, Item Number 1 on the agenda today is the Longshoreman and Harbor Workers Compensation Act. I believe at the last meeting we were going to have another conversation here regarding this information and revisit all these actions and coverage and some explanation, maybe from staff or from county attorney? MR. ZACHARY: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Robert Page 3 . __··,_,_..._····....··_·__·..·_...·h September 15,2004 Zachary, county attorney's office. I've invited this morning Bill-- William Mountford from the county attorney's office who worked on that amendment and may give the board a short talk about how that came about, why we enacted that longshoreman's amendment for the ordinance and a little bit of background on the amendment. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Great. Sure. MR. MOUNTFORD: Hi. Bill Mountford, as Mr. Zachary said. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Excuse me, you may have to get just a little closer to the microphone. MR. MOUNTFORD: Yes. Bill Mountford, as Robert said. I was involved in this very briefly, to let you know what happened. There was a group of dock builders who had an association and went to a meeting in Fort Lauderdale, and the longshoreman and harbor workers federal representative from Jacksonville was there. And they came and he gave a little lecture on the necessity of having longshoreman and harbor workers compensation if any person is working on water. That doesn't mean that they're building a boat or are in a boat, that means any water that directly goes to navigable or navigable by way of directly goes to the Gulf, the ocean or whatever. And at that point in time, the association representative wrote the board and said you're going to be individually liable if you don't put longshoreman and harbor workers compensation insurance into effect in Collier County. When I was advised of that and I looked at it, I said this doesn't make sense. How can the county be liable for something they're not involved in. And then I did my own research. And the research -- we have in our ordinance a requirement that you have to have workers' compensation insurance if you have the right number of employees and so on and so forth. That was an ordinance had been in effect for many years. I looked up the state statute, and the state statute in Florida states Page 4 ---_...-_.....>._-"_.~ September 15,2004 in effect -- now, this has been out of my mind for two years now, so out of sight, out of mind with me. But as I recall, there's a state statute that says you have to have federal employee liability and longshoreman and harbor workers insurance because workers' comp does not cover you if you qualify for that, and we won't be -- we won't fill the void. So what we did ultimately after a year and a half, after a multitude of meetings with the people that wanted it and the people that didn't want it, and that's the small-time dock builders, we amended our ordinance in compliance with the state statute. That's all we did. No big deal. Now, what that says is our ordinance -- and I don't have it in front of me, again, they put my files away -- it says in effect you have to have workers' compensation insurance and/or federal employees liability insurance and/or longshoreman and harbor workers compensation insurance to do business in Collier County. If you need it. That's all it said. And that's what happened. And there hasn't been a real problem with it since then. In fact, unfortunately the small dock builders thought that I was against them. I'm not against anyone; I just want to make sure the county had the correct law in place, which they implemented, I believe appropriately, a year and a half ago. And in fact last week one of the small dock builders, I ran across him here, and he said to me, he said, Bill, it's really funny how things worked out. The major complaint about not having longshoreman and harbor workers compensation insurance if you needed it was the cost of it. He said now with the increase in workers' compo premiums and everything else, they're almost in parity, so it really isn't even an issue of cost anymore. But with that being said, we haven't had many problems with the implementation of it since it took effect, I believe, in October -- somewhere in October of '02, because they would just come in on part Page 5 --.~'_._'--'^"~"~""----~'~"'-'-~-------'-- September 15,2004 of the contractor licensing procedure. Robert Nonnemaker was -- Nonnenmacher? ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Nonnenmacher, yes. MR. MOUNTFORD: And his superior, whoever that -- he's retired now, and I and Robert's associate, we had many meetings with everybody on it. So I don't think it will be a surprise to anybody. Now, Mr. Balzano, he may not have been familiar with it because he wasn't in that section at the time -- MR. BALZANO: I was there. MR. MOUNTFORD: -- I think that's the dilemma. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Well, I just -- this morning -- I don't know if this has any bearing on what you're saying, which I can understand -- but this morning I went back and I looked at the old ordinance that was interjected, and I believe that we did a workshop and we amended all the ordinances, adding certain things and changing certain wording and putting certain licenses together. And in here this clearly does state all licensed contractors shall maintain applicable workmen's compensation insurance as required by Florida law and/or federal law, including but not limited to the provisions of Federal Employers Liability Act and the longshoreman's Insurance and Harbor Workmen's Compens. (sic) Act. The defense basis is -- or the Jones Act. This was in the ordinance but this was never reviewed by this board. This was the problem, I believe, is when the case came before us, the marine dock personnel that came in here were assuming that we had something to do with changing this ordinance, which we never did, we never reviewed this. MR. MOUNTFORD: It was changed, I believe. I've never been in front of this board before, to my recollection. I believe it was done in an overall amendment to the commission in the executive summary. And that what you're reading there with regards to the Jones federal, whatever it is, that is nothing but a quote from the Florida statute. Page 6 --.--.- --_.__....._-,-~..__...._-- .. September 15, 2004 ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: The statute. MR. MOUNTFORD: Yeah. It's not a federal statute, it's the Florida statute. MS. KELLER: Do you know what the definition of a longshoreman is? MR. MOUNTFORD: I did. I'll tell you who had it. The contractor licensing people, when they would come in for permits, they would know the criteria. I'm saying this to you. Oh, what a longshoreman is? Any person who works on water. And the classic example would be somebody who puts a dock in the water on a canal in Collier County, when that canal leads to navigable water or the Gulf of Mexico. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: And this is what this is saying, though, is that any party that works on a dock, whether it be an electrician, whether it be a plumber, whether it be someone -- anyone that works across that per se seawall and does work on navigable water needs to carry this insurance. MR. MOUNTFORD: You summarized it quite well, using seawall as an example. Once you step off that seawall -- ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Right. MR. MOUNTFORD: But you only need it if you meet the requirements. It was like five employees or something. I mean, it wasn't like you just have to do it. That goes to electricians, plumbers or anyone. The county's concern is this, in a nutshell: We have an ordinance in place which requires workers' compensation insurance. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Correct. MR. MOUNTFORD: Nobody argues with that, I believe. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Right. MR. MOUNTFORD: Now, if we are requiring workers' compensation insurance and we are aware of -- which was well pointed out to us by a myriad of people -- that we also, since we've Page 7 September 15,2004 imposed an obligation to have workers' compensation insurance and since we have a bunch of navigable water in Collier County and we're aware of a law that says you also have to have longshoreman and harbor workers compensation insurance, we could be construed as being negligent in not implementing the law that we know exists. Does that make sense to you? We can't say okay, we're going to apply Florida workers' compensation but we don't care what you do when you get on the water. Somebody's going to come back and then they will sue the county on the basis that you had an obligation to act reasonably under the circumstances, and since you imposed the duty for (sic) regards to workers' compensation and you're aware of the longshoreman and harbor workers and you didn't impose that duty, we're going to look to you to make this poor guy who got crunched, through no fault of his own, you know, in an accident on the waterway. So that's why we did it, to make sure everybody was aware and to -- and it's our responsibility to do that, I believe. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay. Does that mean in a nutshell then that all the other counties within Florida, State of Florida that aren't upholding this longshoreman's Act, they are all not in compliance? MR. MOUNTFORD: Absolutely. Now, you say that's a pretty wise comment that you made very quickly. I've gone back and forth to Washington, to Jacksonville, that's the federal. The problem is, like most things it's an administrative proceeding, and they had like, as I recall, one investigator to do like five counties. I'm talking about the federal. So -- but again, I believe quite a few counties comply with it now, in my understanding. And -- but I don't know whether you've had any additional problems in the last year and a half, other than having it brought to you. I think most people -- I've had calls from electricians in Marco Page 8 September 15, 2004 Island, plumbers, and when I take the call and explain it to them, they weren't necessarily happy, but they understood what the theory is, because their guy goes at risk, and their compo carrier is going to say uh-uh. Now, this doesn't mean everybody has to have it. You don't need it -- you only have to meet the guidelines. And I forget what the number of employees is, or whatever it is. And I think since then, the workers' compensation guidelines have changed. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Right. MR. MOUNTFORD: Florida Workers' Comp has changed substantially, so -- I don't do workers' compo MS. KELLER: That was one question that we had last month was, is workmen's comp covering people that are working on docks? Because you've said that you could have the longshoreman's insurance or the workmen's comp insurance. But as we discussed last month, if you walked from your truck out to the dock, you would not be covered if you only had the longshoreman. And so you really did need both insurances, which has put a number of people out of business. MR. MOUNTFORD: My understanding now, don't hold me to it, because it's been a year and a half, longshoreman and harbor workers compensation insurance doesn't kick in until you step over that seawall. That's when you need it. If you're working on land building a dock and you never go over the seawall, it doesn't -- it may cover you, but you don't need it. Am I making sense to you? If some body's on land and never goes on the water, that's a different ball game. But once you get over on the water, longshoreman and harbor workers applies, according to the Florida law that I researched. And I even had a case that dealt with it, that dealt with this specific issue. Now, there are -- there must be 100,000 cases dealing -- when you're talking about people that work on cargo ships and things like that, or loading cargo ships. Whether -- I mean, it was -- I didn't go to Page 9 September 15, 2004 Harvard Law School, and if I had gone there, I still wouldn't have understood the -- I wouldn't have been accepted there. But I mean, it's a very complicated thing that a lot of attorneys that do that type of workers' compensation or be it Jones Act, federal employees or Florida Workers' Compensation have tested; and usually in New Orleans and places like that where there are big ports. But it's very different for that. But the longshoreman and harbor workers, when you're dealing with what we have in Florida under the Florida Statute is unpleasant, but it's pretty direct. Once you step on that water, you are no longer covered by workers' camp. Now, that doesn't mean to say that workers' comp hasn't covered it in the past. I'm not saying they haven't done that. We all misconstrue the law upon occasion. And some judges are very liberal and they apply it. The case that I had in point dealing with this specific issue was a Florida Workers' Compensation case, as I recall, out of either Jacksonville or one of those places that went to the District Court of Appeals, not the Florida Supreme Court, as I recall. And that was right on point. And it was dealing with a situation where a person had workers' compensation coverage -- the workers' comp judge awarded compensation to this guy who was standing out there driving a piling, as I recall, on the water. And it was reversed saying no, under our Florida statute, once he's on that water, you cannot cover him with Florida Workers' Compensation insurance. And that's sort of what got everything rolling. I hope I'm making some sense to you. It isn't necessarily pleasant, but it was sort of like very cut-and-dry, even though it caused a lot of emotional turmoil, because it hurts people's pocketbook. The big guys say we pay the penalty because we have it. The little guy says we can't afford it. And they're -- I'm not Page 10 September 15, 2004 judgmental either way, you know, other than what I -- ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I think that's probably what the actual problem is. And Mr. Balzano is the gentleman who brought this before us. And I want to I guess clarify and go to Mr. Balzano and find out ifhe is satisfied with the answers, as far as -- MR. BALZANO: Well, first off, I'd like to set the record straight. I've been in licensing for 10 years, and I was involved in all those meetings with you and with Mr. Nonnenmacher. And the meetings we did have were after the ordinance was enacted, not before. It was after it appeared in our new ordinance is when we had these meetings. And we have a letter here from the gentleman you talked to from Jacksonville that's as recent as a month ago, stating the federal government does not enforce -- does not have the manpower or the time to enforce their law. Our question to the attorneys and to the board was, do we have the authority to enforce federal law? That is our question. Not because it's in the ordinance. Do we have the authority to enforce federal law? MR. BARTOE: And also in that same memo, Mr. Lee from Jacksonville states that the U.S. Department of Labor has no jurisdiction over enforcement of local law. If the federal government can't enforce local law, how can local government enforce federal law? MR. ZACHARY: If you all want to send over a request for legal services, we'll sure do the research and have an answer for you. MR. MOUNTFORD: So that the board's well aware, maybe it's in Mr. Balzano's mind, but we had a year of arguing back and forth before this ordinance was ever amended, including meetings with various groups. And we even had a representative from Jacksonville here at one point. That may have been after the fact. But we had -- I Page 11 September 15,2004 had meetings in this room, upstairs, all over. But it's moot. You're not really enforcing Florida -- federal law . You're enforcing 968.23 or something, whatever the Florida statute is, that's what you're applying here. And you don't have to do heavy research and read the whole longshoreman and harbor workers compensation act, which takes two volumes. The criteria was the same criteria, I believe, that they started applying up until -- I don't know if they stopped applying it. And it was pretty much pro forma and it was done right on the spot, as I recall, right on the spot when they came in for their permit. And they'd sign the certification to the effect that they either needed it or didn't need it and that was it. Now, that's my understanding of how it worked. I don't know how it works now. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: To make a long story short, then, it's obviously -- it's just pretty much cut and dry that the staff has the capability of being able to cite contractors that do not have the longshoreman insurance if it's needed. MR. BARTOE: That's your opinion. MR. BALZANO: Workers' comp does not cite them. I talked with workers' comp in Tallahassee. If they go to a job site, they ask for workers' comp insurance. They do not ask if they have longshoreman's insurance. MR. NEALE: But that's really not relevant. That's really not relevant. The relevant point is it's in our ordinance, it was appropriately adopted by the Board of County Commissioners, and it's the responsibility of the contractor licensing staff to enforce the ordinance, period. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Right. That's the way I'm understanding it now. MR. BALZANO: In which the --like I said to you at the last meeting and I'm asking you today, do we have the -- never mind that it's in our ordinance, we don't know how it got in there, why it's in there. Our question is, and that's what we keep asking, can we as Page 12 '~---"'"~""- September 15,2004 county employees enforce federal law? That's all we're asking. MR. NEALE: Mr. Mountford was very clear. I think he's willing to reiterate, you're not enforcing federal law. MR. BALZANO: No one else in the state does except Pinellas. We've got some faxes from Jacksonville, from Highlands County. MR. NEALE: So because everybody else is wrong, we're supposed to not enforce an ordinance? MR. MOUNTFORD: I have to reiterate, it's in ordinance enforcement based upon a Florida statute. That's what it is. That's all it is. I didn't go to the feds and say can we usurp the federal -- you can't usurp it anyway. You all know that. But that -- we have a -- this ordinance, as Counsel said, was based upon a Florida statute, not some federal law . And that has never been changed. So we're not enforcing federal law , we're enforcing an ordinance, based upon a state statute. Thank you, Counsel. You were briefer and better than I was. MS. KELLER: So really, this is an issue for the county commissioners. And I guess that we can give our support or not give our support to you to take it to the county commissioners as something that needs to be brought up again. MR. NEALE: I'd have to say, though, you've just heard from Mr. Mountford who's done the research that he made a recommendation to the Board of County Commissioners that they would potentially be liable, the county would potentially be liable, if this were not in our ordinance. I would counsel this board as your counsel that to support a motion counseling the Board of County Commissioners or requesting the Board of County Commissioners to go contrary to the advice of their counsel, would -- MS. KELLER: Maybe we could see the advice that they gave the county commissioners to make this amendment in the first place so that we can have a -- Page 13 September 15, 2004 MR. NEALE: Well, Mr. Mountford's-- MS. KELLER: Well, but I'd like to read the papers. I'd like to look at the actual wording of the review. MR. MOUNTFORD: You have to realize, this was I think done in July of 2002. My records are away. You can see it all. I'm sure I __ there may have been even an executive summary. It may have been mapped out in there. But whatever you want to do I can get you but it's going to take a few days to get it out of storage. MS. KELLER: I'd like to know more. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I wouldn't have a problem with looking at whatever Mr. Mountford has. However, I think it's -- we're fighting a moot point here. I think in all essence the ordinance clearly states that we -- it is in the ordinance. The Board of Commissioners adopted this ordinance because it's in there and we cannot change it. It wouldn't behoove us to try to go and try to take this out of the ordinance just because we didn't have a chance to review it or have a workshop on it or any other thing. It's pretty much a done deal. I mean, pretty much -- MR. BARTOE: Mr. Chairman, I'd just like to go on record that the staffs going to request legal services on this matter, and I think we can drop this subj ect for now. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay. MS. KELLER: I'd just like to say that I think one part of our job is to support staff and to help, too, for them to get their points across. So I think understanding more about their issues and implementation of law is important for us to. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I understand totally, yes. MR. BLUM: They're out there in the line. They're dealing with the contractors day by day. They see some of the potential inadequacies. I mean, we have to back them up. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Agreed. Do we need a motion to table this till the next meeting? No. Page 14 September 15, 2004 MR. NEALE: It's just a discussion item. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Discussion. MR. MOUNTFORD: If you want me to, I will pull out my closed files. Whatever you want. Thank you very much. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Thank you for your time. Next item on the agenda is a Mr. Jay Bowermeister, Gainesville Independent Testing Services. MR. BAR TOE: Yes, Mr. Chairman. I think Mr. Bowermeister was supposed to be here last month and probably one or two hurricanes got the best of him. He called the office at about 8: 15 this morning, said he got off the Interstate, and I kept looking at the clock, and I think maybe our lack of parking out here might have got the best of him for a while. At this time, I'd like to introduce to you Mr. Jay Bowermeister. He's Gainesville Independent Testing Service. He's going to provide us information on his company as a possible alternative to our current testing company. As you know, the board has asked staff to look into alternatives, and Mr. Balzano and I met Jay in June at one of our CLORF (phonetic) meetings, and we think he could answer any questions you might have as far as his testing goes. MR. BOWERMEISTER: Thank you. I apologize for my tardiness. And the parking was part of the problem, but the other part was my directions seemed to be turned around this morning, and when I got here to the intersection of Davis, I turned right instead of turning left. And it's morning traffic time still. But anyway, my name is Jay Bowermeister. I am the president of Gainesville Independent Testing Service. Gainesville Independent Testing Service was formed in May of2000 by seven former employees of Block, NAI Block, NAI Block Experior; depends how far back you want to go in our history. There are now two of us of the original seven left remaining in the company, and we have a support Page 15 September 15,2004 staff that works with us now. We were the construction test development department of Experior/NAI Block in Gainesville. Knowing what was happening with that firm as we were let go and watching the market since then, what we have done is tried to fill the vacancies that the other testing firms here in the State of Florida have left. If you don't mind, I have a handout and some business cards I'd like to give each of you, if that's all right. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Sure. MR. BOWERMEISTER: At this point in time, we are currently handling services for Citrus County, Hernando County, Palm Beach County and Broward County here in the State of Florida. Additionally, we handle the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulations programs that have examinations. In that particular instance we actually just develop and manage the programs and another company delivers them. One of the things that we have, and I hoped to bring it along with me this morning but I didn't get the opportunity to, is we have a portable trailer that we can use as a portable testing center. So we can actually move mobilely around the state and deliver exams in our own controlled environment without having to go into a hotel and rent a meeting room and worry about whether the room's secured or not or if somebody's managed to sneak in exam questions or things like that ahead of time. As you see by looking at our list, we have an extensive number of exams completed and already available for delivery. There are 86 different examinations that we have completed right now. There are an additional 44 under development at this point in time. We actually deliver about 104 exams for Broward County, but we had to customize each of their exams, so they're not usable in the rest of the state, so you don't see them on the list in front of you. We develop our exams much the same way that Block and Page 16 -_..,--_._.__.~ September 15, 2004 Associates and NAI Block did for years, in the fact that we employ in-house subject matter experts. I happen to be the air conditioning/mechanical subject matter expert because I'm a Class A certified air conditioning contractor here in Florida and a registered unlimited mechanical contractor. So I do the air conditioning, mechanical development. My business partner is a PE in mechanical engineering, but he also specializes in civil. He's actually one of the founders and writers of the Florida Energy Code. So he does all of our civil engineering exams, engineering construction type exams. He does all of our plumbing exams and all of the specialties, the smaller specialty exams. We then employ a group of consultants who are licensed contractors here in the state to develop each of the other exams that you see in front of you on the list. So we have general contractors that write the general building and residential contracting test and some of the building trades tests that are associated with those. We have an electrical contractor -- actually two electrical contractors that still write electrical exams for us. One of those is Maury Tremor (phonetic ). Now, Maury, I don't know if any of you have been around long enough, is actually one of the founders of Block and Associates and wrote the very first electrical test given in this state by an agency in 1958. And he still works with us as a consultant, writes exams for us, and is still active in the business that way. So we have quite a history, even though we're a small company. The three principals of the company, the two partners and our officer manager, between the three of us, we have over 60 years of experience in construction testing here in Florida, on top of the fact that we also happen to be contractors and engineers, so we're actually involved in the trades. I still do a limited amount of contracting to stay active, know what's going on in the trades and to help keep our tests up to speed, as Page 17 September 15, 2004 does my partner, who's a PE, still does some limited design work and things like that, and then our consultants are actually active contractors. That's the nutshell synopsis that I can give you. Do any of you have any questions or anything that you'd like to ask about? MS. KELLER: Do you offer the tests in Spanish? MR. BOWERMEISTER: We actually translate on an as needed basis, but our translation fees are relatively low because we keep two translators on staff. One of the translators is actually raised here in Florida, but her father's Cuban and her mother's Puerto Rican, so she gets a nice mix of the dialects that we get hit with here in the state. Our second translator is actually a lawyer from Bolivia. And she translates in strict Castilian Spanish, which is actually the best thing to do in defensible status, or continental Spanish is what some people call it, because that's actually the only true Spanish that can be translated accurately. And even at that we run into some difficulties. But we do translate exams on a regular basis. And once the exams are translated one time, we keep them in our electronic testing bank, so they only have to be done once. We don't have to do it every time somebody comes and asks for another exam. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Are the manuals and the books that are written for the taking the test and studying for the test for the Hispanics, are they written in Spanish so they can review? MR. BOWERMEISTER: No. That is the one big drawback of testing in any second language. 90 percent of the reference books that are used on construction licensing exams throughout the United States are available only in English. So it really puts people who have English as a second language at a distinct disadvantage, statistically, as far as studying for the exam. However, it does provide them with a better ability to grasp the content of the item if they see it in their native tongue. And we do what's called a diglot translation. The English version of the question exists in the top of the space, and the Page 18 -~_.-.. -_._------ '-" September 15,2004 Spanish translation exists immediately underneath it. So they can look at the question in English and in Spanish. So if they've studied the English -- the documentation reference books and then they get to read the question in Spanish and look back at the English, it helps them to make the connection. MR. GUITE': Are your tests open book tests? MR. BOWERMEISTER: Yes, sir. All of our tests are completely open book. We have maintained what has been the standard in the industry for 40 years, as you all are well aware by this point in time, probably. Everybody else has moved away from that to one extent or another. And from what we hear and the reports that we hear and the demonstrations and the discussions at the testing industry meetings, the exam passing percentages and passing scores are reflecting those changes. The passing percentages are dropping drastically, and they weren't very high to start with. MR. GUITE': Are the manuals and books all available at the construction bookstore? MR. BOWERMEISTER: Yes, sir. We actually actively work with three of the different bookstores here in the state, providing them up-to-date changes. What has historically been called a bulletin of information or a candidate information bulletin, a BOICIB, we call an exam information sheet, because that's what it is. It tells us what's on the exam, what reference books are on the exam and the process to go through to be able to take the exam. And we provide those actively to three bookstores: Contractors Institute in Hudson, Florida Exam Bookstore in Hollywood, and then they distribute it to their other five locations throughout the state, and to Building Trade Education Services, Builders Book Barn in Sarasota. MR. GUITE': And do you offer any workshops for people that are going to take the test, or is there anything available? MR. BOWERMEISTER: At this point in time in time, because Page 19 September 15, 2004 of some standards that were passed by American National Standards Institute in 2002, it is actually against those standards for active testing firms to provide preparation courses or preparation material at this time. So no, we do not do that. But we are working with the same people, the same bookstores that we're working with that have continuing and preparation classes to assist them in developing courses around our exams. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Staff, any other questions? MR. BAR TOE: Jay, are you able to compare your company's cost for tests compared to other companies? MR. BOWERMEISTER: If you look at the sheets -- I don't know if you all got copies of our price sheets this time, if not, I've got a couple more in my bag -- our exams are available in two different methods. We deliver on paper and pencil just like most people are accustomed to. We also subcontract with a company called Thompson Prometric to deliver our exams electronically throughout the United States. Because of that, our fees for our tests are based upon the time fee, the sitting time fee at the electronic testing sites. For a one-hour exam, which the candidate actually gets an hour and a half to sit in the center and take it, the cost for that is $65, which at this point in time is $5.00 higher than it is for Experior. However, there are a few bonuses that you get with our services that nobody else provides for their base fee. That's a flat fee, no matter what the candidate does. That $65 includes what other people call expediated registration. Well, we don't have that. As long as they call us more than 48 hours before the test time and they've been approved by their sponsoring county, we can get them in to sit for the test, either in the hard copy administration or in one of the electronics centers. So we only need 48 hours notice. So there's no expediated registration fee. The other companies charge $15 to $25 for that. After they complete the test, regardless of whether they take it paper and pencil or electronically, they get their score report before Page 20 September 15,2004 they leave the site. We do that by using the electronic system that we have to actually enter the candidates' responses directly onto our server, and the server has the scoring capability. If the individual passes the exam, their score notice prints out that says that they've received a percentage score of a specific point, to contact their sponsoring agency to continue in the process of licensure. If they fail the examination, it prints out a score. It doesn't say that they passed or failed -- hopefully they know that, since they've turned in an application, what the passing percentage is -- and they then get a strength and weakness report and a study guide at the bottom of the page, if they failed. Both of those services cost 15 to $25 from our competitors. So they charge $5.00 less originally. At this point in time, they're 70 to $75 more expensive than we are for the same servIce. If the candidate wants to review their exam, all of our competitors currently have a policy that they have to take the test three times, fail it three times, and then they get to review the first test that they took. If someone fails one of our exams, we're sticking with the old standards again; they request a review, they get to review the exam that they failed. Everybody charges between 25 and $50 for that service; again, it's included in our base price, there's no additional fee for it. So by this time we've saved the average candidate between 75 and $100. We also are using a reduced reference list. We still ask questions from all of the same subject areas that have historically been asked on questions on tests here in the State of Florida. But what we've done is -- and I don't know if any of you are air conditioning or mechanical contractors, but in the air conditioning/mechanical exams there was always the choice of using modern refrigeration or air conditioning refrigeration's manual, both of which cost about 85 to $90 apiece, depending on where you buy them. Well, the average candidate looks Page 21 September 15, 2004 at them and says I'm going to buy them both, just to be safe. We are very specific. We use one of those two books. They're basically the same books, they contain all of the same information. Because they're both listed on everybody else's reference list, every item that they ask from them has to be in both books. Well, we've decided to try to be a little more reasonable for the candidate, we only use one of those books. So we have reduced our reference list. As an example, when I took my exams back in 1983 and '84, I spent $1,900 on my books. To take those same exams offered by our company, the exam list is now $712, if you buy every book on the list. We still ask all the same types of questions, all of the same things, we just don't ask them from the wide variety of literature that they used to come from. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Sounds like it's a fairly well put together company as far as giving tests. The problem has been the language. I believe that's been the barrier here. There has been a lot of Hispanics that have come in and try to take the test and they couldn't because they didn't understand the questions or they couldn't understand how to answer the questions. And this is why we were searching for another review of another company. MS. KELLER: Wasn't it the open book -- closed book -- ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Right. MS. KELLER: -- that they had made it closed book and -- ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Right. MR. BARTOE: And Mr. Bowermeister did explain to Paul and I up in Sarasota that if we created a type of license that they really don't have a test for, this company would be able to create a test for us suitable for that license; is that correct? MR. BOWERMEISTER: Yes, sir. Our most recent example of that is Hernando County has passed a tree removal ordinance that's licensed underneath their construction Page 22 September 15, 2004 category. Well, a lot of other counties are starting to pick that up now. We've designed a tree removal exam that in this particular case is based strictly upon OSHA safety standards. There's not really a specific reference that we could go to about removing trees, but safety is always an important factor. So we went to OSHA, we found suitable information from OSHA about the handling of the equipment, lifts that are used, the use of cranes to remove things close to power lines and things like that, and we developed an exam for tree removal. MR. GUITE': Where would the test be administered? MR. BOWERMEISTER: All right, here for this area, if the test is -- if the candidate wants to take the test electronically, the closest center is in Fort Myers. If they want to wait for the one time that we will come through the area a month and take it on hard company, we would actually just bring our trailer and our pickup, pull into the parking lot here, pull out on the outside edge someplace on a Saturday or a Sunday, depending upon when the candidates tend to prefer -- and we were doing Broward County on Saturday, all the candidates were complaining about it and saying why don't you do it Sunday afternoon, so we test them on Sunday afternoon in Broward County now. But we just pull our trailer into the parking lot after we've worked out the arrangements about liability with the client. We have our own generator, so we don't even have to connect to their utilities. Candidates come in and sit down in our portable trailer and take their hard copy exams. MS. KELLER: I recommend that we get some reference checks on the other counties that are using the services. MR. BARTOE: I'm sorry? MS. KELLER: I recommend that we get some reference checks from the other counties that are using the services, to get some feedback on how it's going and potential problems and -- Page 23 ~----"-"-"-~"-~ September 15, 2004 MR. BAR TOE: Okay. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: See if they're satisfied with the services provided? MS. KELLER: Yes. Or just get some feedback as to, you know, things that work well and things that don't work well and -- so we can compare them. MR. BOWERMEISTER: I can help that. MS. KELLER: Yeah. MR. BOWERMEISTER: The electronic system is truthfully -- is truthfully still a problem at this point in time. There are so many tests that we have loaded onto the system. Even though Prometric is the largest test delivery company in the world, we've loaded over 235 different construction-related exams onto their system, and there is a problem with which exam delivers from time to time. About one out of every 12 or 13 candidates goes in, sits down to take the test, and instead of getting the version for Hernando County, they get the Broward County version. Or they go in to take an electrical contractor test and they sit down and somebody types in all of the information the candidate's eligible for, and they wind up with a business procedures exam in front of them. That's been the biggest problem and the biggest complaint that we've had to date. And we handle that by one of two things: We either offer to go let the candidate retest without paying, or we allow him to go ahead and reschedule and take hard copy if they want to that way. And either way, we don't charge them any additional fee for having to reschedule them, because obviously the system malfunction is not the candidate's problem. But that's the largest complaint you're going to find at this point in time. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Any other questions? (No response.) MR. NEALE: Just -- if I can advise the board on what the situation is as far as changing tests. Page 24 September 15,2004 In the Collier County ordinance, approved examiners are Experior or any other testing agency with comparable testing standards recognized and approved throughout the State of Florida and also approved by the Collier County Contractors Licensing Board. So if this board deems that they are comparable standards and recognized and approved in the state, through this board's action it can add them as being an approved testing agency for Collier County. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay. At this point, though, there was a comment made that we should be maybe checking a few of the references before we maybe put this on as a motion. Maybe we can table it till next month? MR. BESWICK: Just contingent on a favorable report? ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes, contingent on the-- MR. NEALE: If I may, just to clarify, what it would be is if this board approves the addition of this agency, the candidate would then have a choice of either Experior or this agency. Because Experior is written in our ordinance, so we would be adding a choice for the candidate so they'd have their option at that point. MR. BLUM: Would they be counseled on -- at the time of the application? Staff would counsel them as to what testing agency might be appropriate? MR. BALZANO: Correct. MR. BOWERMEISTER: If I may, we have a similar situation in actually three of the other counties that we operate in. Broward County currently uses two providers, ourselves and Professional Testing out of Orlando. Citrus County uses ourselves and Experior. And Palm Beach County actually uses three firms: Professional Testing out of Orlando, Experior and ourselves. And the candidates are just provided the information on who provides which exams. We obviously -- we have some exams that neither of the other companies have. They have exams that have been around longer than ours have and people are more familiar with their names, so the Page 25 ---~-~""'- '-"-'~-"'-"" ,-~~.<,-- September 15, 2004 candidate's actually just given the open choice in those vicinities to take that, and we have no problem with that. We provide a service agreement that says that we will provide the services for you, but it has no exclusion statements in it at all, so you can use whomever you want to. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay. MR. BAR TOE: Mr. Chairman? ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes. MR. BAR TOE: The only question I have -- Mr. Neale, maybe you can help with this -- in every license we have, it states the experience you have to have, and you must pass a three-hour test and a two-hour business and law test. And I think Mr. Bowermeister's company, the testing time is different. I think when we amend the ordinance, we're just -- we're going to have to change each one of these to say pass an appropriate approved test. MR. NEALE: Yeah, I agree with that, and I think that's an amendment that, since we discussed going into an amendment cycle on the ordinance, I think it's appropriate that that change be made across the board. I think that makes sense. MS. KELLER: I just have one more question. In the counties where your services are offered, what percentage of the market share are you? MR. BOWERMEISTER: Well, in Hernando County, we're 100 percent. They have actually moved away from everybody else during the time that we've been providing them for them, which started in August of 2002. In Palm Beach County we actually are doing all of their journeymen examinations. And I don't know how much of their total exam population that is, but we do all of their electrical, mechanical and plumbing journeymen exams at this point in time. In Broward County, we are running about 90 percent of their examinations at this point in time. Page 26 .. ___'_'-'Ú'^^^ _ ~~__.., September 15, 2004 Other counties that we actively have agreements out with that have our signatures out on them but not -- that the other counties haven't returned right now are Sumter, Monroe, Pasco, Indian River, Martin, Brevard and V olutia. So those are other counties that we've presented to, and they're all going to do the same thing, use multiple testing vendors and allow the candidate a choice. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I think that will work out really very well, actually, for what we have -- part of the problem here. Mr. Bowermeister, I think you represented this -- your company very well. MR. BOWERMEISTER: Thank you, sir. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I think that we have a little bit of work to do with staff to do a little checking on the company, then they will bring it back before the board next month and put it to a vote. MR. BOWERMEISTER: Thank you for your time. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Thank you. Okay, moving on to new business. I have Sidney 1. Hubschman; are you in here? (No response.) ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Not available. MR. BAR TOE: He came to us a couple of weeks ago requesting to reinstate his commercial swimming pool license without retesting. There was no full packet in there, because I figured he might as well come and either get the board's blessing or get told no before he fills out an application. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Probably good he didn't come today. We'll just push him aside, maybe he'll come up next month. Next on the agenda is Mr. Alan Soares, requesting to qualify a second entity. Page 27 ____,___'.v,"_._____~._._ September 15, 2004 Mr. Soares, are you in the room? (No response.) ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Well, maybe he'll show up next month, too. Another swimming pool guy. A Marcio J. -- boy, test me on this one -- Guequelin -- Guequelin, okay. Request to qualify a second entity. Come up and be sworn in, please. (Speaker was duly sworn.) ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Mr. Guequelin -- gosh, that's a hard one. MR. GUEQUELIN: Marcio's fine. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Marcio's fine? Okay. Can you define -- can you please explain the reason you wanted to be here today. MR. GUEQUELIN: Well, I'm applying for a second business, because I have a person too which is the president of the company I'm applying for. I do all her work, tile and marble. And since her partner which carried the license left, she asked me if I could be a second -- you know, apply for her business to be licensed for her business. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: And you currently qualify Omega Floor, Inc.; is that right? MR. GUEQUELIN: Yes. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: What does actually Omega Flooring, Inc. do? MR. GUEQUELIN: Does marble, tile and carpet. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Marble, tile and carpet. MR. GUEQUELIN: Just residential. And Omega Flooring is licensed here in Lee and Collier County, Lee and Cape Coral, as well. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Questions from the board? MR. BESWICK: How much authority do you have with the new company? Page 28 .._~-~--,-" September 15,2004 MR. GUEQUELIN: Right now will be about 10 percent. MS. KELLER: Ten percent ownership in the new company? MR. GUEQUELIN: Correct. MS. KELLER: Okay. Because in your application it says zero. MR. GUEQUELIN: That was my -- filled out wrong. MS. KELLER: Pardon? MR. GUEQUELIN: I must have filled out wrong. You're talking about Wood 'N Rugs? MR. BESWICK: Yes. MR. GUEQUELIN: Oh, I'm sorry. My bad. No, I won't have any ownership on Wood 'N Rugs. MR. GUITE': You do all her work -- MR. GUEQUELIN: Yeah. MR. GUITE': -- 100 percent of her work? MR. GUEQUELIN: 100 percent of her tile and marble work. MR. GUITE': And what other types of flooring does she do? MR. GUEQUELIN: She does -- she does also carpet and wood. But as being -- having that license, she -- do you carry the carpet license? Yes, she does carry the license for the others. I believe the only reason we're doing this is because for her to have her business, she has to have somebody qualify her business. In Fort Myers and Lee County, you do not need to have a license to sell the job, only to actually install. But my understanding is that in Collier County you do have to have a license to contract a job. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Contract to install. MR. GUEQUELIN: Just to -- if a person comes into the showroom and wants to buy tile and marble, you have to have a license for that, contractor's license to sell that. That's my understanding. MR. GUITE': I'd like some direction on that. Does she actually have to have a license to sell flooring, as long as she has a license to pay an individual to install it? Page 29 September 15, 2004 MR. NEALE: I think just an occupational license to sell it, as long as it's done by a licenced installer. MR. GUITE': That's what I believe too. So this is really not needed. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Not necessary. MR. GUEQUELIN: Can I ask her to -- MR. GUITE': She has to come up and get sworn in. (Speaker was duly sworn.) MS. TALARICO: I had a business with a partner. Actually, there's three of us. I recently bought out the other one. And Mark held the tile and marble license. I went and got my business and law exam, so I do -- I am licensed for that. But in order to sell tile and install it through my company, I have to have someone qualify the business. Mark is no longer with us. He is qualifying it at this point still, but he wants -- I would like him to stop qualifying the business, have Marcio qualify it, since he does my work 100 percent, and I am going for my license in the tile and marble. So he'll basically be qualifying my business till I get my license. He does do all my tile and marble at this point, 100 percent. If I want -- if I -- I have to have a business, the business and law to sell the tile, marble and carpet. If I want Wood 'N Rugs to install it, I have to have a license for that, which Marcio would qualify. Otherwise, I would have to sell the product through Wood 'N Rugs and then sell his business, Omega, as the installation. I don't want to do that because I like to have control of the job and I want the customer to know that they're working with one company, so that they have security also. MR. GUITE': Mr. Neale, is that correct? MR. NEALE: Yeah. I mean, it is correct in its -- if she sold the job, she would be selling -- she could sell the product, but then she would have to sell him as separate installation services and the Page 30 September 15, 2004 installation services -- MR. GUITE': I do work for a big company in town, national company, and as far as I know, they don't have a license to install flooring, but -- MR. NEALE: They contract you to do it. MR. GUITE': They contract me to do it. They sell the whole job. MR. NEALE: Yes. She certainly could follow that same model, but it seems here she's choosing not to that, so -- MS. TALARICO: They probably get a bill from you directly, the client? MR. GUITE': No. MS. TALARICO: No? MS. KELLER: I guess the risk to you would be that she would hire an unlicensed contractor, which she would be able to do, to put in flooring and use your license to do that. MR. GUEQUELIN: Well, I understand the reason, but I know her for about five and a half years. And before I had my own business, I work for somebody that was contracted for her at the time. And I prefer -- I know her, and I know that's not going to happen. MS. T ALARI CO: I mean, we meet on a regular basis every morning and go over jobs. I mean, he would see somebody in the office -- and Marcio is very -- although he doesn't own a percentage of my company, because most of my company is tile and marble, although I do wood and carpet, he's very involved in it. I mean, he's making a well profit from it. MR. GUEQUELIN: I can't complain. MR. BARTOE: It appears to me she's trying to do it the correct way. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Yes, I -- for sure. MR. GUITE': Do you have a comment, other viewpoint on that? MR. BALZANO: The way that you just described is the wrong way, because if she contractor -- if a tile and marble store sells a Page 31 September 15,2004 complete job, including installation, then they sub it to you, they're acting as a contractor by subbing it. They cannot put down product and installation by their company if they're not licensed. The only way they can do it legally is like she said, to sell the material and list you as the subcontractor. MS. TALARICO: Unless he billed the client separately under his own company, which at that point he would have to be licensed. MR. GUITE': So as long as they tell the customer that I am a subcontractor, that's fine; is that what you're saying? MR. BALZANO: Depends how the billing is done. MS. T ALARI CO: They can tell them that. But if they're getting a bill from Nassau Pools, Nassau Pools has to carry that license, they have to be certified. I can't just -- if I don't have a license for tile and marble, I can't go out and say yeah, I'll do all your wet areas, bill it through Wood 'N Rugs without a license. I mean, unless I want the law coming back at me, I have to have that -- carry that license. MR. GUITE': Sounds like staffhas some work to do. There's a lot of people in town that's doing exactly that. MR. BALZANO: We deal with a lot of them every day. We can show you the citations. MR. BLUM: You just opened yourself up. MR. GUITE': Yeah, I did. MR. BARTOE: It's well known in your trade, Mr. Guite'. MR. NEALE: I'll have to research the issue of board member immunity here, I think. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: What's the pleasure of the board? MR. BESWICK: I'll make a motion we approve this application. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I have a motion on the floor. MR. BLUM: Second, Blum. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: And a second. Motion and a second. Page 32 September 15, 2004 All in favor? MR. BESWICK: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye. Motion carries. MR. BARTOE: I see -- excuse me. I see that there's -- according to his packet, the office staff has a note in here that Jill will bring in the certificate of insurance to the meeting for general liability and workers' compo Do you have that, ma'am? MS. TALARICO: Yes, I do. And she told me you needed 15 copIes. MR. BAR TOE: Yeah, it should have been passed out before, but that will be okay. MS. TALARICO: She said 15. MR. BARTOE: And I don't know if the chairman told you before the meeting started, don't go into the office today to get your license, because I've got everything with me. Come in tomorrow. MS. TALARICO: Okay. Thank you. MR. GUEQUELIN: Thank you. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: I still have no Sidney Hubschman; still have no Allen Soares, correct? Move along to old business. MR. BLUM: Tobias Simmons. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Oh, I'm sorry. Tobias Simmons. MR. NEALE: He's not here. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: So we're batting 600. MR. BLUM: Did these people all know that we had a meeting today? MR. NEALE: They all got notices. Page 33 September 15, 2004 MR. BARTOE: Yes, they did. And they applied. I mean, it's up to them to follow it through. I don't feel staff should have to call them when they're told when the meeting is. MR. BLUM: Absolutely not, no. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: They were all-- MR. NEALE: I do think that there's a possibility that some people thought that there were not meetings held and such because a lot of places were closed Monday, Tuesday. There's a lot of meetings canceled I know today, so -- I think there's at least somewhat of a hurricane excuse here. Pick a hurricane. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: By the way, we wish all the well wishers that -- for all these hurricane gets well. MR. BARTOE: If I could ask the board if you would, hang on to those packets, because they'll probably end up on next month's agenda agaIn. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Will do. Okay, old business? Finally. The only thing I have listed from last month I believe was a note I have here for a -- Mr. Neale and Mr. Zachary were going to draft an amended citation for unlicensed contractors without workmen's compo Is that -- MR. NEALE: I must admit, we haven't gotten to it, so we'll get it done soon. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay. And one last thing, have we filled anymore positions for the board? Is my question. MR. BAR TOE: I'm sorry. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Have we filled any other -- MR. ZACHARY: The board meeting was canceled yesterday, and that candidate for the position was on that meeting. So next Tuesday they will have a new member appointed. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Okay. MR. BAR TOE: We're still advertising for a consumer for the board, if you know of anyone that might be interested. Page 34 September 15, 2004 ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Anything else? (No response.) ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: No old business. Okay. No public hearings. Any reports? Anymore hurricanes? MR. NEALE: Just one. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: One more coming at us still, eh? MS. KELLER: Keep those boards up. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Really. Okay, the next meeting date I guess is going to be October 20th, 2004. And if that's all there is, I need another motion. MR. BLUM: So moved. MR. GUITE': I'll make a motion to adjourn. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: So moved. Second? MR. BLUM: Second. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: All in favor? MR. BESWICK: Aye. MR. BLUM: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. GUITE': Aye. ACTING CHAIRMAN JOSLIN: Aye. Meeting is adj oumed. ***** There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 10:05 a.m. Page 35 September 15, 2004 CONTRACTOR LICENSING BOARD RICHARD JOSLIN, ACTING CHAIRMAN Transcript prepared on behalf of Gregory Court Reporting Service, Inc., by Cherie' R. Nottingham. Page 36