CCPC Minutes 07/22/2004 S
July 22, 2004
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION
Naples, Florida
July 22, 2004
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Planning Commission in and for
the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 5:05 PM in
SPECIAL SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida,
with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN:
Russell Budd
Mark Strain
Lindy Adelstein
Paul Midney (Excused)
Kenneth Abernathy
Brad Schiffer
Robert Murray
Robert Vigliotti (Excused)
Dwight Richardson
ALSO PRESENT: Patrick White, Assistant County Attorney
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July 22, 2004
1. Chairman Russell Budd called the meeting to order at 5:05 PM and the
Pledge of Allegiance was recited.
2. Roll Call- a quorum was established with Mr. Midney, and Mr. Vigliotti
being excused.
Russell Budd: stated we are here for a super scnveners ordinance and our
presentation by Mr. White.
Presentation - Patrick White. Assistant County Attornev
Patrick White: Good afternoon commissioners, Mr. Chairmen. Assistant County
Attorney, Patrick White. I believe I will be giving pretty much all the presentation today.
Russell Webb, who I want to thank personally and publicly for his efforts in this effort
and others related to it. Is currently occupied with the DESAC LDR sub-committee
working through the cycle two provisions that you will be seeing in a couple of months, I
think. Maybe even next month, I'm not sure. But, be that as it may, tonight's business I
have to begin with the housekeeping matter. I have reviewed the affidavit of publication
for today's hearing, find that its legal sufficient for the meeting to proceed. At this time I
am going to turn it over to our minutes taker for record keeping purposes. Thank you.
Probably a quick summary of why we are here would be easiest and best for us. The first
reason is July 27; the BCC will be hearing this ordinance. At their June 22 meeting they
continued one of the elements of the three things tonight that are to be discussed. First of
those was the political science provision. They continued that forward for their meeting
and as result it's in this ordinance for consideration by the board. You have previously
acted on that and I don't believe there are any changes to it so it ought go through without
comment, but its still part ofthe ordinance.
The second matter has to do with that is section 7 of the ordination. And that deals with
charitable solicitations and the still existing LDC section 2.1.15. That is in this ordinance
as the second element because of the board's action on June 22 with regards to charitable
solicitations and their desire to change the rules in that regard. In order to do so prior to
the effective date of the UDC ordinance that was adopted June 22 also, but not effective
until September 27, we had to make a change to the still existing LDC provision in
2.1.15. So that it would harmonize and fit with a change that will be made to the code of
laws as you can see in the reference in the amending text. That will deal with charitable
solicitations and road rights of way. That is scheduled for next Tuesdays BCC
consideration.
Thirdly, the real reason we told you we would be coming back to you this month, was to
address any scriveners errors that we had found in the intervening days and weeks. That
is the bulk of this document. They are in strike through underlined format. I don't believe
that any of them that are truly substantive. But with that said I still want to give you all
the opportunity to ask any questions that you may have about any of these three elements.
And more so just to remind you that at some point if they are favorable you would make
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July 22, 2004
a finding that they are consistent with the comprehensive plan and a recommendation for
approval to the BCC. They are meeting this Tuesday July 27. I believe that's all of it that
I have. I certainly can give you an update on the other pieces of where we are with
amendments to the regulatory fabric of which this is a piece, but I prefer to do that unless
its part of your questions after we taken the official action on this ordinance.
Mr. Adelstein: Asked, is the only changes in here the red lines, everything else stayed
the same is what we got bye-mail?
Mr. White: Yes sir. There are some things that seem to be substantive, substantial
changes in red because of the way that you are limited to highlighted text in blocks in
some of the tables.
Mr. Schiffer: Patrick, this is the final use table? The concern I have is some ofthe uses
aren't allowed. For example, on the first page barber shops and colleges aren't allowed
anywhere. If you go through it there are a lot of columns safety isn't allowed anywhere.
Mr. White: I'm assuming that we have given you all of the pages in the table.
Alphabetically starting with B running through to whatever the last one.
Mr. Schiffer: Yeah but with the first one barber shop or colleges and beauty shop or
schools there not permitted anywhere. Biking trails are only permitted in conservation
areas. And it says a blank cell is prohibited. So it's actually prohibited in every part.
Mr. White: There may be some better explanation for that then the fact that they are
prohibited because they don't show anything in a cell in this document. If they were
struck through here and there was no other cells with any P's in them. Then I would say
yes, that was the intent. Were not changing anything in these. What I'm going to do is
real quickly, while hopefully any further questions come forward see whether we've...
Mr. Schiffer: There is some, contractors are prohibited everywhere.
Mr. White: I saw that. Yes.
Mr. Schiffer: Engineer and accounting is only allowed in the Bayshore mixed use
overlay area.
Mr. White: Certainly one ofthe things we were intending to do as to any use for which
there was no permissible use. I think the other explanation may be that this is the same
list that exists for the accessory and conditional uses. I guess when we get it published
and hard copied you probably can get those removed that truly do not have a permissible
use in any district.
Mr. Schiffer: I mean open space is permitted everywhere isn't it? The scary thing about
this chart is the blank being that it is prohibited.
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July 22, 2004
Mr. White: As a use.
Mr. Schiffer: As a use.
Mr. White: Now there's an open space requirement that's a different creature.
Mr. Schiffer: I'm not sure what open space, what the safety is either.
Mr. Strain: Another way of saying what Brad's getting at is that if you don't have it
allowed in any zoning district you can't be allowed in Collier County, is that?
Mr. Murray: That was the question I asked Russell Webb and he said that's not what he
meant or he said he had to look at the SIC codes directly. And I thought these were the
SIC codes. I had raised that question with him today and he said he was going to check
that.
Mr. White: I did not get any feedback on that from him. Your table for example starts
with barbershops. I can tell you that there are a bunch of uses that exist prior to that in
the adopted text and they have through out them P's in various places. I'm looking for
barbershops or colleges and although there's a SIC code listed there does not appear as
best, I take that back there appears that. . .
Mr. Schiffer: I think the title abstract says that is prohibited in all districts.
Mr. White: It appears to me that was something that preexisted in what we adopted as
the UDC. And if and fact is inconsistent with what the LBC allowed as permissible uses
in various zoning districts. We will have to, because the staff is still going through and
doing their checks on these things.
Mr. Strain: Well just so you know there is a section called personal services in the back
and it's the same SIC code that are contained in that one. Those are allowed in some
districts, for example, 7231 and 7241.
Mr. White: That is the barbershop SIC code 7241. I think what were recognizing is that
there are some points that need to be further reviewed and in fact my expectation is that
the staff has been directed to make these kinds of changes. Excuse me to review to
whether there's a need for any of these types of changes. We know as we have told you
before that there going to show up and I'm glad that when they become the first one on
the list that it becomes more obvious to everyone's eye. They do come up.
Mr. Schiffer: There is a lot.
Mr. White: And the other thing that I want to make sure we double-check is that the two
lists both that for accessory and conditional is in fact essentially the same alphabetical
list, in the left hand column that we're using for permitted uses. And if they are, that may
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July 22, 2004
explain it. Then we can certainly fix that when we go to publish it by directing municipal
code will leave those out for which there is no P.
Mr. Schiffer: The other question is Pat, what was the final decision on bold, cap?
Mr. White: There's been no final decision. We are at the point where on Tuesday we're
going to, I take that back. We just today received signed from the municipal code
addendums and addenda to our contract with them. What were anticipating doing
commissioner is entering in the contract. One is the element, which is to publish the
UDC. We still have a commitment from them September 27. They are providing us in ten
point. Which is the size of the existing LDC. Single column formats, a series of a half a
dozen or so different styles that they believe are successfully employed in other
jurisdictions. Things like italics, bold italics, along that line. What were going to do is
come back to this body and those others that utilize the code. Along with the staff and
make some choices. We don't have that yet form them.
Mr. Murray: I assume also that they will be tabbed. As you go through the book,
looking for a 1.05.. . any given item, you really have to go through every page to find that.
Mr. White: The pages will have what is called ears on them. And they will have the
corresponding just like on the phone book the names between them. And there will be I
believe only chapter tabs. And of course everyone will end up tagging the ones that they
routinely use out of their piece.
Mr. Schiffer: Reviewing the UDC shows how important using the index is to.
Mr. White: The index is one of the things that they needed the most amount of time to
work on.
Mr. Strain: Pat, on your section 7, 2.1.15, and number 2 says unauthorized roadside sells
are prohibited in all zoning districts. How do you be an authorized roadside sell? You got
to have a permit or a license?
Mr. White: Yes that is a correct statement. And I think that you also have to look at what
it is that is authorized in what will be the provisions for charitable solicitations that are
coming forward Tuesday as code of laws amendments.
Mr. Strain: The next sentence on the same number 2 says no temporary use permit or
license can be attained for improper roadside sells that take place while the road is open
to traffic. Now I like that because it means no roadside sells, because there is no traffic
then they, I mean they can be somewhere where there is no traffic, which is great, but
they shouldn't be where there is traffic. But then why do we have roadside sells?
Mr. White: I think that there maybe some other vehicle for approval. Not to make a bad
pun, but the idea is that you can't get a TUP or some type of a license to do these things.
They have to be of even shorter duration than that. You may be able to get a permit that
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July 22,2004
authorizes you to do so. That is what I understand is intended in the cited provisions in
number 3 that is the code of laws references.
Mr. Strain: So number 2 did not intend not to allow it. I was hoping it did. When we
drive and stop at a light, someone could just stand there in the median selling
newspapers.
Mr. White: No, the intended effect is to preclude those types of activities.
Mr. Strain: What activities are allowed?
Mr. White: Only those that would be authorized in the cross-referenced piece of 26-1,
etc chapter 26 code of laws.
Mr. Strain: So I would have to pull that code up to figure out?
Mr. White: Yes the only things that will be allowed in these provisions are things
involving selected charitable organizations.
Mr. Adelstein: Asked, page number 37 of 50 and 38 of 50. Are those additions or
changes?
Mr. White: The additions I believe are in the footnotes. You are seeing the added note.
Other than that I don't believe there are any other intended changes. I'll note for your
better understanding that the footnotes that are in there are, when there published going to
be numbered in a way so that repetitive footnotes will have the same footnote number or
character.
Mr. Budd: Other questions? Mr. White is there a format for public input?
Mr. White: Certainly there is. Assuming know one had questions about section 8.
Mr. Schiffer: There's not anything in there about docks is there?
Mr. White: Not that I'm aware.
Mr. Budd: Is there anyone from the public that wishes to address this item? So if there
are no further questions for the planning commissioners do we have a motion?
Mr. Murray: I would move that The Planning Commission would adopt these
scriveners' errors ordinance 2004 as presented and forwarded to The Board of Collier
County Commissioners on July 27,2004 for their approval.
Mr. Budd: Do you further find that consistent with the comprehensive plan?
Mr. Murray: I do.
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July 22, 2004
Mr. Budd: And a second?
Mr. Aldestein: I do.
There being no further discussion on the motion, Russell Budd called the question.
The motion carried unanimously (7-0)
Mr. Budd: Is there anything else this evening Mr. White?
Mr. White: That depends upon you gentlemen. I could give you a brief road map into the
future where were going in particular in respect to the pieces of what were the LDC and
that are not going forward in the UDC. To take a few minutes, specifically on Tuesday
again we are going to ask the board to consider and hopefully adopt an ordinance that we
call omnibus ordinance. It is intended to take pieces of the previously existing LDC that
you remember from appendix H the table that talked about where all the LDC previsions
went in the UDC. There were a series of them that we identified for you that are going
into the code oflaws. In fact that's what we're going to be doing on Tuesday is bringing
forward to the board an ordinance that takes all of those pieces that were intended to go
in the code of laws and inserts them in the appropriate chapters, articles, and sections of
the code of law. That leaves us with just a small portion of previously existing regulation
that is intended to come forward hopefully before the 2ih of September as administrative
code or construction code types of items. Were anticipating training for the staff and
members ofthe public and the regulated industry that are interested. In the interest of
everyone's time, were looking at having essentially two stafftraining sessions the mid to
early part of August. From that, those folks who came to be best able to are going to be
tasked with the training of the members of the public and the regulated industry. I want to
make sure that we give them the best training and in fact we have taken the power point
presentation that you folks had seen and adjusted it so that it can be used as a training
tool. It is kind of an overview of how the UDC works. This is so folks will have the same
body of knowledge going forward with what it is that were attempting to do and how
were trying to do it. Then what's left is learning where what it was you knew existed can
now be found. We are still looking at September 27. I think we will be able to do that.
The big thing is we're all hoping for in this process is that we will have digital versions of
all of this documents. Both the LDC and the code oflaws available based upon the
contract amendment that we are working with municipal code.
Mr. Abernathy: Asked, you in vision that training folks like us will take one day or two
or have you even got to that point?
Mr. White: We are going to see how long it starts taking us when we do it with staff. It is
going to be our own training ground for the training process and what will do is start
scheduling enough of them so that hopefully we will get people in consistent with their
schedules. And not make them too long. There is so much regulatory fabric that anybody
can wear at one time.
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July 22, 2004
Mr. Schiffer: Asked, anybody who is using the codes, will they have to buy both of the
codes?
Mr. White: Yes, absolutely. I think that owning digital versions of both code oflaws and
ordinances and the LDC are going to be the bookends on any practicing professionals
library. They are going to be on your computer, on software program that have a lot of
tools that make it seem like its your own personalized code. Plus they are word
searchable.
Mr. Strain: Stated, for the training sessions that you are having, all of us may not have
all the times available that you may offer.
Mr. White: I don't think that the division administration administrator will have
problem with you going to the staff dates that are available. My view is that all of the
advisory committees are more staffed than any of the other things that will look at. In
terms of them being members of the public or the regulated industry. All things
considered I think that is fair. You just have to recognize that it's a training program for
us too, who are doing the training. I guess the idea is if you are willing to offer us some
constructive criticism we will be glad to take it.
Mr. Budd: Any other business Mr. White?
Mr. White: No sir, just that the board will consider this for final action on Tuesday, July
27 at 9:00 AM.
There being no further business, the meeting was concluded at 5:15, pm
COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION
Chairman Mr. Russell Budd
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