BCC Minutes 04/25/1985 W
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Naple., Florida, April 25, 1985
LIT IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of C~unty COMmi..ioner. in
and for the County of Collier, and al.o acting as the Board of Zoning
Appeal. and a. the governing boardCs) of such .pecial di.trict. a. have
been created according to lav and having conducted business herein, .et
on this date at 9,05 A.M. in WORKSBOP 1188IO. in Building .p. of the
Courthouse Complex, East Naples, Florida, vith the folloving members
present'
CHAIRMAN, Frederick J. Voss
VICE CHAIRMAN: Anne Goodnight
Max A. Hasse
C. C. -Red· Holland
ABSENT: John A. Pistor
ALSO PRESENT, William J. Reagan, Clerks James C. Giles, Piscal
Officers Maureen Kenyon, Deputy Clerks Donald B. Lusk, County Manager,
Burt Saunders, County Attorneys Neil Dorrill, Assistant C~unty Managers
Mary Morgan, Supervisor of Elections, Dr. POlkowski, Health Directors
Guy Carlton, Tax Collector, Sam COlding, Property Appraiser, Sheriff
Rogers, Judge Hugh Hayes, and Deputy Chief Ray Barnett, Sheriff's
Depa r talen t.
WORKSHOP AGlllDA
Discussion re Justice Center space
DISCUl8Io. RaGARDI»Q JUSTICE CEIITIA SPACI - SPECIAL MIITING TO 81 BILD
MOllDAY, APRIL 29, 1985
County Mðnager Lusk stated that he would describe all of the
projects that have been discuSsed and the amount of money it would take
to completo the projects. He stated with reference to Building -Aw,
the existing jail, it i. propoaed to remodel tho first and second
floor. and put up a shell for the third floor vith the coat being
esti.ated at $1 million, adding that the jail itaelf would cost about
$250,000, which amoun~s to $1,250,000 to complete Building .1.. the vay
the judges and Sheriff have requested. He noted that Building .8. the
pre.ent Health Departalent building would cost about $250,000 to remod~l
He reported that for Building ·C·, the proposal vas to build an 8,000
.quare foot addition beside it, adding that the estimated cost to
remodel Building ·C· and build the addition is $1 million. He stated
that Building -Ow viII cost approximately $425,000 to remodel, vhich
currently houses the Public Work., Zoning and Building department., He
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noted that Building -Q- i. Park. , Recreation and also i. part storage
which i. used by the Clerk~ He stated that the cost of remodeling this
building ia contingent upon building a warehouse for the Cl~rk'.
.torag~ which i. estimated at $300,000 and would have 9~000 .quare
feet. Ue reported that the Health Department would be 22,000 .quare
feet with two atories and that cost would be $3.5 million. He noted
that there is presently enough money to do Building -1.-, the first and
.econd floor, and to shell in the third floor, with money left to
handle the outstandings claims. He atated that if Building -A- is
taken out of the plans, everything that i. left total. up to
appoximately $6 million. He stated that 80me of these buildings are
proposed to be overbuilt, but they vi11 be needed in a few years and he
did not vant to underbuild and overfund. He atated that the project
could be cut to Cover the present needs and it would cost approximately
$4.5 million, adding that they could go ~ith a bond issue for $4.5
million and then atart setting aside a millage for the capital
improve.ent project fund so that in years to come, the expansion of
these projects could be done by ca.h.
Commissioner Hasse stated that the interest on . $6.5 million bond
issue would be three ti.es that amount and he would prefer to go with a
millage rate that would increase ad valorem taxe..
County Kln.ger Lusk atated that if a third of a mill is imposed,
the project could not be built at this point, it would have to be done
Over the next four or five years, adding that the lack of apace now
actually costs the County money because private office space is being
rented as v.ll as warehouse space.
COMmissioner Vosa stated that one-third of a mill would bring in
about $2 million a yeðr and that would ha,'e to be done over a period of
three years and by then escalation would take effect.
County Mðnager Lusk stated that the County would not be able to
start building until the tax rate was set for the year which would .ean
Se ptelllber of each year.
Commissioner Haase stated that priorities would have to be
established to determine which buildings get done first.
County Klnager Luak stated that the money is not collected until
November of each year.
Tax Collector Carlton stated that in November, he receives 40-45'
of the tax money.
County Klnager Lusk stated that it is very difficult to set
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priorities when there is a need for three projects at the sa.e time.
Commis.ioner Voss stated that the problem with setting priori tie.
i. that this Board can .et their priori tie. and the next board can
change those priorities.
County Manager Lusk stated that for the next three month.,
architect. would be preparing their drawings, and the bid ~uld not b.
let uncil about October or November.
Assistant County Manager Dorrill stated that the final phase of
the original project was to do renovations in Building -A-, adding that
he would be hesitant to skip Over Building -A- to start remodeling in
any other bUilding.
Commissioner Voss stated that he would lIke to hear the
Constitutional officers concerns and why they need more space.
Judge HU9h Hayes stated that he feela that when the first and
second floor is available to move into, they will completely fill the
space at that tIme, adding that this does not take into consideration
the fact that within the next three to five years, there will be t~
new judqes. He stated that he can not justify bodies per square foot
because courtrooms are not always filled and you cannot alvays make
office. out of them. He stated that his concern is that Buildinq -A-
is already in the process of being worked on and everythinq has already
been disrupted and he would not like to see the final part of the
constructIon stopped t~ move into another buildinq and then have
everythinq disrupted again at a later date. He stated that everyone
h.s proble~s, but it does not make economic sen.e to take the money for
the third floor and use it on another building.
Dr. Polkowski, Health Oirector, presented a report to the
Commissioners which indicated the needs of the Health Department. She
noted that the main buildinq was built in 1962 vhen the population va.
16,000. She stated that outside dimensions are 7,000 square feet with
5,000 square feet of net space. He noted that ahe has 50 staff people
working in the main building facility, addinq that additional apace was
required and she has trailers that are used as well as a rented store
front. She stated that these facilities have an additional 3,800
square feet and have 27 ataff people, addinq that the actual square
footage ia 10,800 with a total staff of 77 for Naples alone. She
reported that there is not room for a pharmacy or adequate clinical
lab, adding that testing vision ia done in a hallway. She indicated
that there is no quiet room to provide a hearing test and no room to
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provide TB t..ts. She not4d that th.re is no d..ignat.d counselor
intervi.w roo. lor pati.nts, that clinic suppli.s are spr.ad all ov.r
.. th.re is no other room for th.m, and that the x-ray room h.. to be
U.ed a. a clinic roo. and an x-ray room as well as a .cr..ning room.
She .tated that th.r. 1. also a lack of waiting room-and'storag. for
.'dical records and that ten ye.rs from now, the population will be
Over 160,000 and the m.dical n..d. viII incr..... She stat.d that
there i. already a 33' incr.a.. in the WIC progr.m and incr.a.. in
.chool. n.c.s.it.t. an incr.a.. in food programs. She stat.d th.t home
health for the m.dically indigent is n.ed.d, but th.re is no space or
staff for thi.. She .tated that there va. a Sp.ce n.ed. analy.is done
four y.ars ago and projection. were made for fiv., ten and fift..n
years, .dding that the he.lth d.partment was project.d to n..d 13,600
n.t square f..t five years from th.t an.ly.is date vhlch is on. y..r
fro. novo She stated that there is currently 10,800 actu.l, not net,
square f..t and th.t it was projected that within t.n years from the
analysis 16,000 .quar. feet ~uld b. n.ed.d which is 6 years from now.
Commission.r Holland questioned the co.t and the .quipment, to
which County Man.ger Lusk st.ted that the cost is high.r in this
buildIng b.caus. of the vast am~unt of plumbing th.t i. requir.d and
the sp.cialized viring.
Property Appraiser Coldinq stated th.t his office i. crowded,
adding th.t h. has 150,000 r.al .state records to maintain and the
tr.ffic that go.. through the office is unbeli.vabl.. He st.ted th.t
h. h.s b..n in hi. area for seven y.ar. and it vas determined four
y..rs .go that h. would n.ed 8,000 square f.et, .dding that this would
basic.lly take C.re of today'. needs. He stated that he definit.ly
ne.ds Some relief.
Tax Collector C.rlton .t.ted th.t he ha. done five y.ars of spac.
studi.s, noting that he took office vith 48 paid .mployees and he still
h.s only 48 p.id .mployees but his work load h.. increas.d 30'. He
st.t.d th.t h. n.ed. more sp.ce.
Commission.r H.... que.tioned if he would be .ble to utilize Some
of the war.hou.. storage, to which Mr. Carlton replied affirmativ.ly,
adding th.t it would get the boxes out of the hall. H. st.ted that ..
soon a. h. mov.. into the are. that h.s be.n allocat.d to him, the
spac. vill b. compl.t.ly utiliz.d.
In answer to Commissioner Vos., Assistant County Manag.r Dorrill
stat.d that Building -0- is the existing Public Work. and Community
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April 25, 1985
D.velopment Building, adding that the PUblic Works people will remain
in that building and expand across the hallway and all current building
and &onlng activities will move to exi.tlng Building -0-. He stated
that there would be some type of warehouse con.tructed to primarily
.erve the records retention needs which will take up about one-third of
the building. He stated that it wa. proposed about five year. ago to
build a pr'-engineered steel building for storage purposes with some
office space to alleviate the need of rental apace. He stated that at
one point a aurvey was don. to d.termine the needa for storage, adding
that a va rehouse building for such purpose. would cost approximately
$350,000.
Commi.sioner Voss que.tioned if the need for additional el.vator.
had been considered? County Manager Luak stated that he has tried to
locate departaents that would have the least valk-in traffic to work
around that particular cost.
Ms. Brenda Wilson, President of the Collier County Bar Associa-
tion, stated that the Law Library needs 1,800 aquare feet, adding that
the area that they pre.ently have is not sufficient for their need..
She stated that th.re are books atored in hallways and all ovar, noting
that during the construction there were some bQok. lost due to water
da.age and being thrown avay. Sha stated that there haa b.en
Suggestiona o! relocating the office in a different pl~ce. She
indicated that if they make a move it needs to be a permanent move,
adding that they do not have that much money to make more than one
mOVe. She reported that the easiest and least costly would be to
expand on the space that they already have. Ther. was discussion
regarding microfilming and Ms. Wilson stated that it is not poasible
for them to put the Law Library into a microfilm library, adding that
it haa been investigated and microfilmiflg is also very expensive.
AsSistant County Manager Dorrill stated in all the drawings there
has always been approximately 1,800 square feet designated for the Law
Li bury.
Commiasioner Voss atated that he feels that the needs are for now
and by prioritizing them, it will not get the job done, adding that the
whole project should be don. immediately.
Com.issioner Hasse stated that the need a are here, but they shQuld
be prioritized to accomplish the most efficient way of handling it.
Commissioner Holland atated that he shares the opinion of
Commisaioner Haase, adding that i~ this project was done at one time,
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there would b. ma.. chao. for the n.xt f.w year. and it i. no way to
operate a gov.rnm.nt. H. .tat.d that the 3 projects that are in
proqr... now .hould be complet.d and th.n Com. back with the list of
need.. He .tat.d that there was originally $11 million worth of n..d.
which was brought down to about $4 million. H. noted that h. could not
..e bUilding a health building that do.s not have the .pecial .qulpm.nt
that i. need.d, nor can h. ..e building a .hell of a building that i.
totally u..l.... H. stat.d that he wa. not .ur. how accurat. the
figur.. ar. that ar. in the r.port, but it appear. that th.r. is
.pproximat.ly a $3 million balanc..
Pi.cal Offic.r Giles atat.d that on March 31, 1985, there wa. a
balanc. of $4.3 million, but if the knovn commitment. are subtract.d
from that figur., the balanc. would b. $3.1 million.
As.i.tant County Manager Dorrill .tated that from an accounting
standpoint, liscal Offic.r Cil.s i. correct, but there is still
oUt.tanding work that haa to be taken into consideration, like the
aab..to. r.moval program for approximately $250,000, Building WA-
completion for approximately $1.S million, and claims and defense money
for approximately $250,000, which totals approximately $2 million,
adding that h. is hesitant to say that there would be any money left
ove r.
County Attorney Saunders stated that there has been $1 million
worth of claims fll.d and if he goes through the complete Court system
with th.m and he is aucce.sfuI, it will cost approxi~ately $250,000 to
d.f.nd th... claim..
Commission.r Holland atated that there is enough money left to
construct BUildings wC·, wO-, and the warehous., and then at budget
tim., the money could be put in to do the rest of the work Over a two
or thr.o year period.
Commissioner Voss stat.d that there is still WOrk that i.
contract.d for Building wJ- which is not included in those figur.s,
adding that if they ar. lucky, they will have approximately $750,000
l.ft wh.n Buildings wJw, wAw, and the asb..tos r.moval i. complet.. H.
atat.d that the need is here today and the project. have to get .tarted
a. quickly as Possible to Compl.t. the n.eds, adding that it should not
take thr.e y.ara to complete the needs.
Commi..ion.r Goodnight .tat.d that the n..ds are her. now and it
ha. to be don. now, and n.xt y.ar the Comm~.sion viII have to worry
about n.xt years' n.ed.. She stated that she would like to ..e an
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April 25, 1985
..ount add.d to the ad valorem tax.. to be able to plan for the growth
in the futur., and to go with a bond is.ue for what 1~ ne.d.d now.
Commi..ion.r Holland stat.d it i. going to cost the County 10' to
sell the bond. if a bond issue is don., adding that mon.y coming in
fro. r.v.nu.. could be uS.d to' pledge a short t.rm loan to compl.t. the
projects in an orderly fashion a. ne.d.d. H. stat.d that sales tax is
coming to the County now and this could b. pledg.d for the building..
H. stated that a 1/4 ot a mill could be put in capital improvements and
with the extra money trom sal.s tax, the projects could be complet.d.
He no~ed that he would rather do som.thing like this over a three y.ar
p.riod than to put the County in debt for 20 years.
Commission.r Voss stated that it should be taken one st.p at a
tim., adding that it sh~uld be decided whether the Commissi~n wants to
go ah.ad with the project to g.t it compl.ted and th.n decide how it
will be financed.
Commissioner Holland stated that the County is com~itted to finish
the jail, the judges chamber., and Building -F-. He noted that th.re
i. a commitment that the BCC made to provide facilities for the
Property Apprais.r and the Tax Collector. He stated that with unity
trom the Commissioners, this project could be done in l8 month..
Commissioner Hasse stated that the Property Apprais.r and the Tax
Coll.ctor could have their buildings completed by the end of the year
if a third of a mill was added to taxes, adding that this could be
handled the same way for the ~ther needs and questioned if a third of 6
.ill would be ftufficient.
County Manager Lusk stated that first of all, the building for the
Prop.rty Apprais.r and the Tax Collector could not get .tart.d until
.ometim. after N~vember when the taxes start coming in and, the
folloving y.ar, the same thing would have to b. determin.d again with
reter.nce to the millage.
Commissioner Has.e statod that his concern is the tremendous
bonding cost that ~uld b. incurred, and the amount of the bonding
i.su. that would almost be tripl.d by the time it i. paid back.
Commissioner Voss stated that by the time the millage is tak.n
into con.id.ration for the government complex project, the jail, and
the roads, th.re would b. at l.ast a third increase in ad valorem
tax... H. qu.stioned if the Board would be willing to s.ll the bond.,
put the mon.y into e.crow and th.n .t the time the Soard decides to
incr.... the ml11.g. rate, the bonds could be bought back., H. .tated
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April 25, 1985
that if the bonda are not sold now and there is a cap put on taxe.,
then the Board is up against the fact that they have to 90 with a bond
iaaue and the interest may be a lot higher by then. He atated that
there is a fallback po.¡tion needed aa the County is in desperate need
of this space.
Commissioner Holland stated that if in Soptember the County is in
a positi~n that they cannot justify an ad valorem tax increase that
would COver the needs, the bonda could then be sold, if necessary, and
by that time, BUildings wI.- and wJw would be completed. He atated that
he would aupport the bond isaue at that time.
ComMia.ioner Holland atated that in the original workshop the
needs w.re $ll million and were shaved down to $4 million.
County Manager Lusk stated that the $4 million was cut down from
$6.5 .illion and the $ll million was cut down to $9 million. He noted
that vith reference to the bond issue, Mr. Fischer had indicated that
by issuing the bonds together, there would be a savings of about
$80,000.
Commiøsioner Voss stated that nothing has been lost if the bonds
are sold, but a great deal may be lost in interest rates if they are
not sold at this time.
Commissioner Hasse stated that he is inclined to go with the third
of a -ill, but is willing to have the security for three years and
short term bonding.
Commissioner HQlland referred to two budget amendments for the
justice center project that were approved in February, 1985, for
$1,209,000 and $731,700 and questioned where the money is7
Fiscal Officer Giles stated that the money is still budgeted, but
there is no contract issued on it yet, therefore, it is nt.>t included in
the summary that was presented to the Commissioners.
Commissioner Voss stated that there cðnnot be any decision reached
this date, but something has to be decided and on May 7, 1985, a final
decision should be reached.
County Attorney Saunders stated, with reference to the refunding
is.ue that has been approved, there will probably be a special meeting
on Msy 2, adding that the bonds would be going to market in advance of
the next board melting date. He stated that if the refunding goes to
market without the new money, the new money would then become a
separate issue. He noted that thia is a décision that the B~ard should
reach before the refunding issue goes to market.
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'~').'-' .':':, Co.miuioner Vou quutloned if they could hold of! until May 7,
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19S5, before CiJoing to market and then stated that there could be a
apeci.l meetinCiJ held.
County Attorney Saunder. ~tated that the la.t day that a special
.eeting could be held would be on Monday, April 29, 1985.
Comwi.sioner Vo.s indicated that a special meeting would be .et up
for April 29, 1985, in the afternoon.
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There being no further business, the meeting was adjQurned by
Order cf the Chair -Time, 11'00 A.M.
aODK O~6 PN 709
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