EAC Minutes 07/07/2004 R
July 7,2004
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE COLLIER
COUNTY ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL
Naples, Florida, July 7, 2004
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Environmental
Advisory Council in and for the County of Collier, having conducted
business herein, met on this date at 9:00 AM in REGULAR SESSION in
Building "F of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the
following members present:
CHAIRMAN:
Alfred F. Gal
Ed Carlson
William Hughes
Michael Sorrell
Joseph Gammons
Michael Bauer
ALSO PRESENT: Patrick White, Assistant County Attorney
Barbara Burgeson, Environmental Specialist
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ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL
AGENDA
July 7,2004
9:00 A.M.
Commission Boardroom
W. Harmon Turner Building (Building "F") - Third Floor
I. Roll Call
II. Approval of Agenda
III. Approval of May 5, 2004 Meeting Minutes
IV. Land Use Petitions
A. Planned Unit Development No. PUDZ-2003-AR-4046
"Summit Place in Naples PUD"
Section 35, Township 48 South, Range 26 East
V. Old Business
A.
VI. New Business
A.
VII. Council Member Comments
VIII. Public Comments
IX. Adjournment
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Council Members: Please notify the Environmental Services Department Administrative
Assistant no later than 5:00 p.m. on July 1. 2004 if you cannot attend this meetina or if you
have a conflict and will abstain from votina on a petition (403-2424).
General Public: Any person who decides to appeal a decision of this Board will need a record of the
proceedings pertaining thereto; and therefore may need to ensure that a verbatim record of
proceedings is made, which record includes the testimony and evidence upon which the appeal is to
be based.
July 7, 2004
Meeting was called to order by Chairman Alfred F. Gal at 9:00 AM.
I. Roll Call
Roll Call was taken - a quorum was established.
Eric Lynne and Ken Humiston were excused. Judith Hushon was absent.
II. Approval of Agenda:
Agenda was approved 6-0.
III. Approval of May 5, 2004 Meeting Minutes:
Mr. Hughes made a motion to approve the minutes; Mr. Gammons seconded.
May 5, 2004 Meeting Minutes were approved 6-0.
IV. Land Use Petitions:
A. Planned Unit Development No. PUDZ-2003-AR-4046
"Summit Place in Naples PUD"
Section 35, Township 48 South, Range 26 East
No Disclosures.
Dwight Nadeau presents the information for the PUD for Summit Place and displays a
map.
· Adding northern 40 acres
· Total of98.4 acres (additional 40.58 acres)
· Total of394 Dwelling Units (additional 163 units)
· Summit Place subdivision is under construction
· Summit Place has its South Florida Water Management Permit
· Obtained 2 RAI's and successfully responded
· 27 acres of conservation; this is an increase over the 9.9 acres originally approved
in the Hibiscus Village PUD. With this preserve there will be enhanced wetlands,
created wetlands and upland preserves.
· Aerial indicates that preserve is up against some undeveloped lands
· Palermo Cove PUD will be coming up in 8-9 months
· Preserve will be contiguous with Summit Place Preserve
· 70% of wetlands will be preserved
· $150,000 payment will be made to the Big Cypress Mitigation Bank
Ed Carlson: I have 2 different maps, one has 2 lakes and one has 1 lake. The preserve
boundary is different in each map, which is correct?
Mr. Nadeau: Confirms which map is correct and that the preserve in the new plan is
larger than the preserve in the old plan.
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July 7,2004
Mr. Hughes inquires about the approval from the South Florida Water Management
District.
Mr. Nadeau confirms that they do not yet have approval for phase II; for this change.
Mr. Hughes: Does this fit our plan for Green space Greenways?
Ms. Mason: They meet the requirements and are contiguous with 2 preserves and a
future preserve as well.
Mr. Carlson asks for an explanation of "filling floodplain area?"
Stan Krzysanowski: The floodplain compensation issue is new. When rivers overflow
their banks it goes to the floodplain. There is a very flat topography here. Most fill for
house pads and developments are fill being put in for floodplains. Golden Gate Estates is
a prime example; we will have 30,000 homes, most in a floodplain. We have written a
policy that, effective August 1, 2004, requires floodplain compensation calculations,
either upfront or with the design.
Mr. Carlson: How do they do the compensation? Where is the compensation?
Mr. Krzysanowski: This is a tough question. (Indicating Map) In the Golden Gate
Estates area there are all revised house pads. There is no way to compensate. The only
way to compensate is to take an area that is above the base flood elevation and drop it
below the base flood elevation. When all of the area is below the base flood elevation
there is no way to compensate. If you have a parcel that is both high and low, you can
actually dig out and compensate for the floodplain.
Mr. Bauer: I have a question about page 5 of the staff report. For wetland mitigation it
indicates a wetland preserve and credit in the Big Cypress Mitigation Bank.
Mike Myers: There will be a combination of on-site preserve and off-site mitigation.
There was a lengthy conversation regarding the long term water management ofthe area.
Mr. Hughes: Is flooding a problem in the long term?
Mr. Krzysanowski: Yes, as different projects come in. This is a county wide problem.
With floodplain compensation it's impossible to solve with off-site mitigation. You can
either hold water back or make it rise. You can either start draining things properly.
However when you drain it out it goes to the coast areas quicker. You can hold it in
lakes, large retention areas, buy up public lands. There are a lot of solutions but every
one of them gets to be prohibitively expensive. Between the FEMA study and the
LIDAR topography we are learning a lot about this area. We can now look at area and
predict the problems. We know the solutions, but a lot of times the solution is not
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July 7,2004
possible because you want to drain the water to help the people, but you cant drain the
water quicker so it's a "catch-22."
Mr. Carlson: We've been using the drainage technique for some time and we're finding
out that it's detrimental. It seems to me that raising control elevations and finding a way
to store more water on the land would be the way to go.
Mr. Krzysanowski: However, there are a lot of structures built according to the old
control elevations and then the septic tanks and drain fields will malfunction and the
roads will flood.
Mr. Carlson: With adjustable wier gate structures for those 100 year storms it seems
like something could be worked out that will increase the storage 99% of the time and if
you have a 100 year storm there is a control structure to take care of that.
Mr. Krzysanowski: If you have a totally non-automatic system and the personnel are
properly trained and monitoring it 100% of the time you could probably get it to work
fairly good if your weather forecasting improved to the point that you could drain down
your system to prepare for the next storm. This is a philosophical discussion
Mr. Carlson: I believe we have the technology. I am willing to pay for more water
storage and more sophisticated water control systems in this county.
Mr. Hughes: This particular project is within the current guidelines of the law, is that
correct? Also, we will be notifying of any additional requirements so no one is getting
blind-sided. I so move that we approve this project.
Mr. Gammons seconds.
Mr. Carlson: Preserves like this are a good way to conserve water and green space.
This is a good project with 70% preserved and as we defer to the other regulatory
agencies I guess the best we can do. I wish it were 90% preserved.
Mr. Bauer: However it is just another net loss of wetlands.
Mr. White: Please note that the motion should be to approve the EIS and to make a
recommendation for approval with respect to the re-zoning. I would ask that the motion
maker and second revise the motion accordingly.
Mr. Hughes revises the motion to approve the EIS and to make a recommendation for
approval with respect to the re-zoning. Mr. Gammons agrees.
Motion carries 5-1.
Mr. White notes that this is official action.
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July 7,2004
V. Old Business: None
VI. New Business
Barbara Burgeson introduces Christina Sanchez and Susan Mason, both staff members
that will be working with the EAC.
VII. Council Member Comments
Mr. Hughes: The confusion that we have here today regarding the water management
issue is extremely complex and it has to be addressed.
Mr. Sorrell: Stan, I have a few questions regarding the Draft Implementation Plan for
Picayune Strand. The water table changes proposed there would render the septic system
in Golden Gate Estates void. They are recommending that sewer and water be put in.
Mr. Krzysanowski: I saw that recommendation. There is some question as to whether
the water table will be raised. It would affect the septic and drain fields and possibly
some wells. My understanding is that at some point we will have sewer and water out
there. Right now we have water shortages from the wells out there and there are only
10,000 homes now. When the Estates increases to 30,000 homes, there will be some
serious problems. We can either do it well ahead of time or wait until there are problems
and address it then which will be a process. I'm an engineer, we like to do things ahead
of time, but it is not always politically and financially feasible.
Mr. Sorrell: A couple of weeks ago, there was an article in the newspaper that noted
that they are planning on using 72,000 yards of contaminated soil in the Belle Meade area
to use as dykes. Once they stack this water, they are going to kill the pines and eliminate
the red cockaded woodpecker from the area. In your opinion, what is going to happen to
the contaminants? I think this is worth researching.
Mr. Krzysanowski: I rather not give an opinion on that, I have not heard about that.
Barbara Burgeson: I have one other item, Susan planning a future workshop for the
EAC.
Susan Mason: We are getting representative from DEP to make a presentation about
TMDLs (Total Maximum Daily Loads.) It's a newer program for federal and state. It
will probably be in August or shortly after that.
Mr. Hughes: Can we have the South Florida Water Management people come here?
Ms. Burgeson: We do invite them to every meeting and we will continue to do that.
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July 7, 2004
Mr. Krzysanowski: We e-mail them copies of the agenda but they have had a lot of
staff changes.
Mr. Bauer: I would like to disclose that I work for the South Florida Water
Management District, but I do not have contact with the Permitting Department. I could
point you in the right direction.
VIII. Public Comments
Mr. White updates the committee on the LDC-UDC process which will be effective
Monday, September 2ih at 12:01 am. These are structural changes to the look and feel
of the LDC, not to the actual content. This is available for review on the Community
Development website.
Ms. Burgeson advises the committee that they will receive new notebooks for the UDC
and, if needed, training sessions or workshops can be provided to make them comfortable
with the changes.
Mr. Sorrell: I have a comment regarding The Mod Waters Project, the culverts under
41. The mandate stated that Mod Waters had to be finished prior to any restoration of the
Everglades. They have already filled up canals; they started filling them before they had
the permits. Almost all the ditches that used to be on Immokalee Road prior to
construction have been blocked off. There are only two that are functioning. Over the
weekend we had less than 2 inches of rain and there was water on Wilson Boulevard.
The Immokalee Canal no longer flows into the Cocohatchee River.
Mr. Krzysanowski: At present we have a contractor, Dick Tomassello, doing a base
flood elevation study, the computer model that he generates will tell us how high the
water rises with the conditions that are there now. I don't think there are any plans to
take that model and re-run it with the improvements. I suppose we could but that would
cost a bit of money to do. That would tell us whether or not the improvements
(improvements meaning construction) would affect the water flow.
Mr. White: The topography in Collier and most of Southwest Florida is very flat. The
traditional notion of flow ways is one that is difficult to apply.
Mr. Krzysanowski: There is an area called Winchester Head. The county is currently
trying to buy it for floodplain compensation. Weare getting some resistance to that.
When you look at the topography, there is not a doubt in my mind that drains a basin of
about 4 square miles. The water just flows and sits in there. If somebody wanted to
come in and build, we have to let them. There is no way to stop them and there is no way
anybody can dig out anything there for floodplain compensation for that. There is no
easy solution.
Mr. Hughes: Changing building codes would be the only way to do this. Rather than
build platforms if homes are literally on posts, it will allow the flow.
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July 7,2004
Mr. Krzysanowski: That may have an impact on FEMA. If your entire grade is a flood
zone, you could pay a higher rate. Every time we try to do something there is a reason
we should and a reason we shouldn't.
Mr. Hughes: By legislating codes, so no one is blind sided, there could be a solution. I
know there is no easy answer.
Mr. White: As practical as that sounds, we have to remember that there are roads out
there that are somewhat elevated and will then act as dykes. Depending upon the amount
of volume that you can put through the culverts and pipes, perhaps you can compensate
for the amount of sheet flow. Going back to the original plan, there was a canal system
that was largely intended to handle this issue. We will have to wait for the results of the
computer model and I'm sure economics will drive design solutions. People have the
option today to build the very structures you are speaking about (stilt houses) and I
suspect that there is a reason why they choose fill.
Mr. Carlson: It should be easier here than in other parts of the country with different
topography, where you get 6 inches ofrain and you have 6 feet of water coming down the
valley. Here, if we get 6 inches ofrain we have 6 inches of water. It should be easy here,
but it's not.
Mr. Sorrell: Earlier this year we had enough rain to close four main arteries in this
county.
Mr. Hughes: I think this should be considered further for alternative, environmentally
sensitive design.
Mr. Bauer: I think by 2007 if we do not come up with a plan, the state will force people
to do something about storm water.
IX. Adjournment
*****
There being no further business for the good of the County of Collier, the
meeting was adjourned by the order of the Chair at 9:56 a.m.
COLLIER COUNTY ENVIRONMENTAL ADVISORY COUNCIL
Chairman Alfred Gal
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