CAC Minutes 06/10/2004 R
June 10,2004
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE COLLIER
COUNTY COASTAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Naples, Florida, June lO, 2004
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Coastal Advisory
Committee in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business
herein, met on this date at 1 :30 PM in REGULAR SESSION in Building
"F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following
members present:
CHAIRMAN: Ron Pennington
Tony Pires
Graham Ginsberg
John Sorey III
James Snediker (Excused)
John Arceri (Excused)
ALSO PRESENT: Maria Bernal, Tourism
Dr. John Staiger, City of Naples
Ron Hovell, Utility Engineering Dept.
Shane Cox, Utilities Engineering Dept.
Paul Kwa, Utilities Engineering Dept.
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NOTICE OF PUBLIC MEETING
COAST AL ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA
THURSDAY, JUNE 10,2004
1 :30 p.m.
I. CALL TO ORDER
II. ROLL CALL
III. CHANGES AND APPROVAL OF AGENDA
IV. PUBLIC COMMENTS
V. APPROVAL OF CAC MINUTES
A. Approval of minutes of May 13,2004
VI. NEW BUSINESS
A. Wiggins Pass Permit Modification Study
B. Draft Marco South Beach Renourishment Permit Application
VII. OLD BUSINESS
A. County / City of Naples Beach Renourishment Update
B. Hideaway Beach Renourishment Update
VIII. PUBLIC COMMENTS
IX. ANNOUNCEMENTS
X. COMMITTEE MEMBER DISCUSSION
XI. NEXT MEETING DATE/LOCATION
A. August 23, 2004, BCC Board Room
COASTAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE
June 10,2004
Page 2
XII. ADJOURNMENT
Notice is hereby given that the Collier County Coastal Advisory Committee will hold a meeting
on Thursday, May 13th at 1:30 p.m. in the Board of County Commissioners chambers, located
on the third floor of the W. Harmon Turner Building, Collier County Government Center, 3301
E. Tamiami Trail, Naples.
The agenda includes, but is not limited to, the following:
In Regard to the Public Meeting:
All interested parties are invited to attend, and to register to speak and to submit their objections,
if any, in writing, to the board/committee prior to the meeting if applicable.
Collier County Ordinance No. 03-53, as amended, requires that all lobbyists shall, before
engaging in any lobbying activities (including, but not limited to, addressing the Board of
County Commissioners, an advisory board or quasi-judicial board), register with the Clerk to the
Board at the Board Minutes and Records Department.
If you are a person with a disability who needs any accommodation in order to participate in this
proceeding, you are entitled, at no cost to you, to the provision of certain assistance. Please
contact the Collier County Facilities Management Department located at 3301 East Tamiami
Trail, Naples, FL 34112, (239) 774-8380; assisted listening devices for the hearing impaired are
available in the County Commissioners' Office.
For more information, call Maria Bernal at 213-2966.
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June 10,2004
I. Meeting was called to order by Chairman Ron Pennington at 1 :31 PM.
II. Roll Call:
Roll call was taken with Mr. Snediker and Mr. Arceri being excused. A quorum
was established.
III. Changes and Approval of Agenda:
Mr. Hovell mentioned the representatives from Eco-Shore were asked at the last
meeting if they would consider doing an experiment at their cost and was not sure
they would be in attendance.
Mr. Ginsberg would like to speak on the topic of people being excluded from
particular beaches.
Mr. Pennington stated to be within their policy, if a member wishes to bring up
an item, should be under "Members Comments" at the end of the meeting.
Mr. Pires moved to approve the agenda as presented. Second by Mr. Sorey.
Carried unanimously 5-0.
IV. Public Comments:
SPEAKERS
David Roellig - Non-Incorporated area - reason he came today was that he was under
the impression - "members serve until they are replaced" and find that is not the case.
He expressed his appreciation of the staff for all the work they have done and bid his
fellow members a fond farewell. The reason he is not going to be reappointed is because
there is talk Pelican Bay may be annexed into the City of Naples and that would give the
City of Naples another vote. He has always voted with the City of Naples and Marco
Island and anyone wanting to improve the maintenance ofthe beaches.
He hopes they get a notice from DEP in July that they will issue the permit for the
County. If not they don't advertise and award a beach renourishment. When there are a
lot of unknowns and variables, he hopes they don't advertise the job unless they get the
permit. He has enjoyed his tenure on the committee and said his "goodbyes" to
everyone.
Mr. Pennington thanked him for his service on the Committee and assured him if they
don't get the permit, they will not award a Contract.
Mr. Pires also personal1y thanked Mr. Roellig.
Mr. Pennington welcomed their newest member Mr. Murray Hendel.
V. Approval of CAC Minutes:
A. Approval of minutes of May 13, 2004.
_ Page 6 - 3rd Par. - 2nd line - insert (coma) after development services director. Add
(and) insert - would (not) be to get the County Attorney's opinion.
_ Page 7 - Speaker John Findley - change - title to tidal.
_ Page 7 - Should state Wiggins Pass (Inlet)
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June 10,2004
_ Page 7 -last line - capitalize (Outstanding Florida Waters)
Mr. Ginsberg moved to approve the minutes of May 13, 2004 as amended. Second
by Mr. Pires. Carried unanimously 5-0.
VI. New Business:
A. Wiggins Pass Permit Modification Study - Shane Cox (Sr. Project Mgt.
Public Utilities Engineering) Update from Humiston & Moore is as follows:
· One problem - Gulf erosion along Barefoot Beach and the other
erosion inside the channel.
· Option for Gulf side - renourish beach, address dredging plan and
erect control structures.
· Shore protection structures and realign the channel were two
solutions discussed with realigning the channel with the most
interest.
· Was asked to prepare another proposal to continue with that
solution.
· Has proposal for Phase II of the Study including survey and
modeling. Would compile off other charts and look at various
dredging discussed previously.
· Not compatible with structures on their effect of outcome.
SPEAKERS
John Findley - Estuary Conservation Assoc. - Chairman of Milestone Committee -
(monitors the pass) - He mentioned Parks & Recreation Advisory Board was going to
give some recommendations. The erosion is continuing. The beach is not building back
up. He showed pictures on the visualizer. He showed places of erosion.
Depths are dropping down where the dredging was done. Had been concerns with 13
foot level and reducing it. Natural level into the gulf is 13 feet. Most of the erosion on
Barefoot Beach took place 9 months after initial dredging that went to 13 feet. Was
down to 8-10 feet after most of the erosion took place. The 13 feet is not a big factor on
the actual erosion. The river is a more dominant force now.
Recommendations by the Estuary Conservation Assoc. were to take out tidal shoaling.
Showed the area on the map. Water and stronger tidal flow causing curve. Not dominant
force but with rains it is cutting into back side of island. That is what the Parks and Rec
was concerned about. Recommend to endorse straightening of the pass and taking it out.
Will create a better health to the estuary for incoming tidal surges going in and out.
Would reduce dredging. Continued to show many pictures.
Further discussion followed on Mr. Findlay's above remarks with the Committee.
Mr. Hovell mentioned the State Parks people attended a meeting at St. Johns Church and
expressed some of their views. Mr. Findley asked the person who he was representing
and the person stated he was representing the State Parks & Recreation and not the State
itself.
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June 10,2004
Mr. Pires recalls a comment from the State park people involving the preserve. Some of
the materials he had, stated they should leave it along. Part of the concern was the
erosion was caused by the depth of the dredging project going to 13 feet. He talked about
a report from Humiston & Moore on the increase of the erosion rate north at R16 -
increased scope of the dredging proj ect - technical information was; part of the channel
is filling in - depths of 8 feet. His thought was to leave it as it is without any further
dredging.
Mr. Hovell said there are two sides to the erosion - gulf side (dredge or not to dredge)
and the interior side (bay side) has more to do with the shape of the channel and the
amount of water coming from inland sources. The concept to deal with the two forms is
two different things. On the interior side is to study two versions of dredging the flood
shoal.
Mr. Findley gave the members a history of the shoal. Discussion on the increase of
flow, the rains and the S curve. Mr. Ginsberg mentioned cutting a straight line may
create more erosion on the north and south banks at the mouth of Wiggins Pass. Many of
the things discussed are items that would be in the study.
Murdo Smith - Parks & Recreation - made a correction from Mr. Findley's remarks.
Mr. Findley attended the Parks & Recreation Advisory Board for the County, and not the
State. It was the State giving their opinion of not being in support of this - not the Parks
and Recreation Advisory Board of Collier County.
Doug Fee - North Bay Civic Assn. - Mr. Fee had a handout for each Committee
member. (Handout was not given for Minutes & Records.)
They asked at the last CAC meeting to have Parks & Rec hear the presentation being the
sponsors. He felt they were not in support of the T-Groins and continuing to dredge to 13
feet outside the mouth. They were not prepared whether they would support removing
the flood shoal. Felt more information needs to be presented. In the future they would or
would not recommend. They need to determine how much more study is needed. He
read the same thing that was read at the last CAC meeting. Those important remarks are
as fol1ows:
· Two important things: Preserve lands north and south of the pass.
Both held by the State of Florida internal trust.
· Florida Statute 253.034 all lands acquired in the trust shall be managed to serve
the public interest by protecting and conserving land, air, water and the states
natural resources.
· Manage with a single purpose in mind.
· Barefoot Beach and Wiggins are preserves and decisions should be made that
they remain as natural as possible.
· Designation of the waters at the pass, as wel1 as parts of the Estuary, is
Outstanding Florida Waters and needs to be kept in mind.
· Discussed the Statutes and DEP factors and read 2 of them - habitat and
navigation and flow of water.
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June 10,2004
· North Bay Civic Assn. - concerned with public not having enough time to
comment and see what is in the report. Parks & Rec Advisory Committee needs
to see what is in the report and discuss it.
· Barefoot Beach - the southern tip has stabilized with the public being able to
enjoy the beach.
· Study seems to focus on navigation issues.
· Dredging to 13 feet has a direct effect on the erosion of the shoreline occurring
after the major dredge.
· Not in support of T -Groins on the north side of Barefoot Beach. GMP clearly
states they are not permitted.
· Many questions were raised on the dredging ofthe S Curve.
In the handout he had a picture from the Wiggins Pass Inlet Management Plan adopted in
1996. Showed the Pass system. Referred to different items in the handout. Mentioned
review of the Manatee Protection Plan, adequate depth criteria's showing shal10w water
system. Discussed many of the photos he provided to the Committee.
He discussed pink highlighted areas in the handout. (Boundaries, sea grass and
Hardbottom) Need to weight impacts.
Attended meeting "Friends of Barefoot Beach". Mentioned different issues Dr. Gore
mentioned of which one was "recommended boaters slow down and take their time
getting in and out of the passes. Deeper and more frequent dredging wil1 only worsen
erosion on the north of the area."
Mr. Fee stated no one is arguing it needs to be navigable. Most boats have a shal10w
draft _ 3 feet or less. No problem with the system and need to keep this in mind.
Mr. Pennington asked about the funding being a transfer from Reserves. Mr. Hovell
stated the Revenues from TDC have increased approx. $200,000.
Mr. Pennington would like to see the status ofthe different accounts in the Budget when
there are request changes. It would be helpful for making recommendations.
Mr. Hovell can give him the projects from his office, but can't from the entire Tourist
Tax Category "A" Fund.
Mr. Pires found the Wiggins Pass Monitoring Report from Humiston & Moore
submitted September 13,2002 conflicting with references of recommendation. He
mentioned one page stated the erosion at the north side of Wiggins Pass should expect to
continue with the highest erosion occurring during the months fol1owing a dredging
event. Nothing referenced inflows or fresh water from upstream sources. The dredging
related erosion should diminish over time with successive maintenance dredging. Also
talked about the stability of the inlet channel and getting beach quality sand. He
continued reading the parts ofthe report stating they already have a study that indicates
engaging in that type of dredging could result in exacerbation of the erosion issue on the
north shore. He didn't know what they would be spending the $51,000 for or if needed.
Mr. Pires moved to recommend to the Board of County Commissioners and TDC to
not engage in the scope of work and deny the request for further study. Motion
was seconded.
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June 10, 2004
Mr. Pennington mentioned doing nothing was an option and there are differences of
opmlOn.
Mr. Hovell mentioned staff brought this to the Committees attention with the proposal
before them because of the options mentioned at last months meeting in feeling this was
the best course of action.
His office has no recommendation one way or another. Parks & Rec asked to address
specific erosion issues, pending further studies. They are cautious about doing anything,
but were interested in what the potential impacts might be. He will check with the
project sponsor to see if they wish to go forward or withdraw the request.
Motion carried unanimously 5-0.
B. Draft Marco South Beach Renourishment Permit Application - Paul Kwa
_ Public Utilities Engineering Dept. - Showed pictures of South Marco Island-
Caxambas Pass - is slated to be constructed the winter of '05/06. His report
included the fol1owing:
· Area used as a borrow sight for 1991 & 1997 restoration project.
· Showed where sand was added - 560,000 cubic yards (1991)
· Dredged 60,000 cubic yards of sand from Caxambas Pass to South Marco
Beach (1997)
· City of Marco Island is sponsoring the project and application will be
submitted for their approval.
· Showed Borrow area photo
· 130,000 cubic yards are needed to fil1 the beach to design specs.
· The grain size was discussed. (has mean grain size of .33 millimeters)
Mr. Hovell mentioned details need to be decided. One is a list of alternatives. Tourist
Tax funds are for beach renourishment and the most efficient way to renourish Marco
South Beach may not be to dredge Caxambas Pass. The City of Marco Island's name
wil1 probably be on the permit and be requested to sign it. They are looking for approval
from the City that the application reflects appropriateness.
He showed a map of hotels and resorts meeting the public access criteria of the state
along with the Parks and Recreation meeting access with boardwalk and parking.
Mr. Hendel has a problem considering an application when the basic applicant isn't ful1y
approved.
Mr. Pennington had a problem with the sponsorship - with funding policy only applying
to sponsor for liability concerns and structures on the beach. There is no authorization or
basis for it. He suggested they approve it and work out the details later with staff etc.
Mr. Sorey moved approval of the FDEP Permit Application submission for
Caxambas Pass dredging South Marco Island Beach Renourishment. Second by
Mr. Pennington.
Motion fails 3-2. Those voting "no", Mr. Hendel, Mr. Ginsberg and Mr. Pires
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June 10,2004
Mr. Pires felt it was a skimpy application. He wondered if it could be changed. A
lengthy discussion pursued and Mr. Pennington stated the State says they have a
responsibility of maintaining the passes.
Mr. Hovell stated the Board of County Commissioners is committed to maintaining a
navigational channel to a certain depth. They monitor and continue to say the pass
doesn't need to be dredged and the channel markers not moved.
Mr. Pires moved to forward the permit application with substantive additions to the
particular aspect of the application dealing with the analysis of available
alternatives. Second by Mr. Sorey. Carried unanimously 5-0.
BREAK-3:06 PM
RECONVENED - 3:13 PM
Mr. Pennington mentioned Mr. Hendel wil1 be leaving at 3:30 PM. This leaves them
with no quorum. He was under the understanding they can discuss further but to take no
action or make no decisions.
Mr. Hovell stated in checking with the Attorneys Office ifthere is no quorum the
meeting should be adjourned.
Mr. Pires stated he advises his public sector clients the same.
Mr. Pennington then asked to have Mr. Hovel1 e-mail an update on the balance ofthe
Agenda.
The Committee proceeds with the rest of the meeting until they need to adjourn.
x. Committee Member Discussion:
Mr. Pennington stated Commissioner Fiala Chairman ofTDC is in agreement of
a joint meeting in August. They wil1 have "Joint Agenda items" so the meeting
can be recorded legal1y and any other business would be conducted at their
September 9th regular meeting.
Also noted _ Joint meeting for Hideaway Beach Renourishment on Sept. 9th.
Need to confirm that date with TDC.
Mr. Hovell mentioned they can't ask contractors to submit bids if no funding
partner. He suggested the "Joint meeting" be the September 9th CAC meeting
and invite TDC.
Mr. Pennington wil1 address this change with TDC. Other items addressed:
· Beach funding approved by legislature and moved up on the priority list.
· Agenda packets are now sent via E-mail- reducing costs.
· Maria wil1 post entire Agenda. Large files of back-up materials will need
to be mailed or posted to the website.
· Mr. Sorey has been advised not to have anything e-mailed to his home
computer _ entire computer is public record and could be subpoenaed.
. Discussed the process for links etc. Will start with their next meeting.
. Large downloads taking more time was also discussed.
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June 10,2004
Mr. Hendel asked the status ofthe membership.
. There is one vacancy at this time - one was appointed Tnesday from the
City of Marco Island, and Mr. Roellig's seat (at-large) was advertised and
should be appointed at the June 22nd Board meeting.
Mr. Sorey asked about dual board membership. There was a consensus at the
City Council meeting there was no problem. Mayor Barnett wrote a letter June
3rd to that effect.
Mr. Ginsberg would like two items added to the next meeting:
. One was "Week-end Clean-up Crew for Beaches" - but the Committee
did not feel the subject to be in the pmview ofthe CAC Committee or in
the Ordinance.
. The other item Mr. Ginsberg wished to be on the Agenda was -
"individuals being asked to leave particular beaches."
Again members did not feel was in the pmview of the CAC committee.
Seems to be going beyond the realm of the Ordinance etc. Discussion followed
on the ru Ie of the Coastal Advisory cummittee establishing po lici es of flmding,
beach restoration and beach access points.
The Cummittee discussed the role of Parks and Recreation and the Coastal
Advisory Committee and the concerns and differential of each.
(Mf. Hendel left at 3:35 PM.)
The next meeting ofthe Coastal Advisory Committee will be July 16th, 2004.
*****
There being no further business for the good ofthe County, the meeting was
adjourned by order of the Chair at 3:37 PM.
COLLIER COUNTY COASTAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE
Chairman Ron Pennington
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