Agenda 05/13/2014 Item #16K3 5/13/2014 16.K.3.
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY
Recommendation that the Board direct the County Attorney to advertise for a public
hearing an ordinance amending the Conservation Collier Ordinance to continue the
Conservation Collier Land Acquisition Advisory Committee and authorize the Committee
to review and make recommendations to the Board on the management and programs of
the preserved land.
OBJECTIVE: Consistent with prior Board direction, to advertise and bring back an Ordinance
for Public Hearing to continue the Conservation Collier Land Acquisition Advisory Committee
and authorize the Committee to review and make recommendations to the Board on the
management and programs of the preserve lands.
CONSIDERATIONS: This past March 11th, the Board, under Agenda Item 11A, considered a
staff recommendation to "to accept the Conservation Collier ten year financial plan and
recommendations for the Conservation Collier Program and to provide direction regarding sunset
of the Conservation Collier Land Acquisition Advisory Committee (CCLAAC)." The Board (1)
directed the County Attorney work with the County Manager to bring back an ordinance
amendment which would continue the CCLAAC to address the management and programs of the
preserve lands, and (2) to bring back for a separate discussion the issue of the Conservation
Collier Financial Plan, which discussion was held on April 8th as Agenda Item 11B. On April
8th, the Board, after lengthy discussion, accepted staffs recommendation on the 10 year financial
plan, which requires no change to the Conservation Collier Ordinance. A copy of the March 1 lth
discussion is included as back-up to this agenda item.
In keeping with Board direction, the County Attorney, working with Ms. Alex Sulecki,
Coordinator of the Conservation Collier Program, prepared the following proposed amendment
to the Conservation Collier Ordinance:
Sec. 54-278. Land acquisition advisory committee.
(a) Creation and purpose. The land acquisition advisory committee is hereby established
to assist the Board of County Commissioners in establishing an active properties
acquisition list with qualified purchase recommendations consistent with the goals of
Conservation Collier. When active acquisition phases are not in place, the land
acquisition committee's role shall be to review and make recommendations to the Board
on the management and programs of the preserved land.
(b) Appointment and composition. The land acquisition advisory committee shall be
composed of nine members who are appointed by and will serve at the pleasure of the
Board of County Commissioners in accordance with Ordinance No. 2001-55.
Membership of the land acquisition advisory committee shall comprise broad and
balanced representation of the interests of Collier County citizens, including.
(1)Environmental, land management,and conservation interests in Collier County.
(2)Agricultural and business interests in Collier County.
(3)Educational interests in Collier County, and
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(4) General civic and citizen interests from throughout the county. Individual
members of the land acquisition advisory committee shall have expertise,
knowledge or interest in ecology, conservation of natural resources, real estate or
land acquisition, land appraisal, land management, eco-tourism or environmental
education. A nominee shall submit to the Board of County Commissioners written
evidence of his or her expertise, knowledge or interest in any of the above. The
members of this committee should include representatives from different areas of
Collier County.
(c) Terms of office. The initial terms of office of the members shall be staggered between
the individual interests,for balance purposes, and be set as follows:
(1) Three members shall serve three years.
(2) Three members shall serve two years.
(3) Three members shall serve one year.
Thereafter, all appointments shall be for a term of three years. The process
for appointments and terms of office shall be governed by Collier County
Ordinance No. 2001-55, as amended.
(d) Officers, quorum and rules of procedure. At its earliest opportunity, the membership
of the committee shall elect a chairperson and vice chairperson from among the members.
Officers' terms shall be for a period of one year, with eligibility for reelection.
The presence of five or more members shall constitute a quorum of the committee
necessary to take action and transact business. The committee shall, by majority vote of
the entire membership, adopt ru.c,s of procedure for the transaction of business. The land
acquisition advisory committee shall comply with the applicable requirements of the
Florida Sunshine Law, and shall keep a written record of meetings, resolutions, findings
and determinations in accordance with F.S. ch. 112. Copies of all committee minutes,
resolutions, reports, and exhibits shall be submitted to the Board of County
Commissioners.
(e) Attendance and vacancies. Committee member attendance requirements, including
failure to attend meetings and member removal from office are governed by Collier
County Ordinance No. 2001-55, as amended.
(f) Functions, powers and duties of the land acquisition advisory committee. The land
acquisition advisory committee shall have the following duties and responsibilities:
(1) The land acquisition advisory committee's primary responsibility is to
recommend to the Board of County Commissioners an active properties acquisition
list with qualified purchase recommendations consistent with the goals of
Conservation Collier and pursuant to the policies outlined herein below.
(2) The land acquisition advisory committee may, from time to time, recommend
to the Board of County Commissioners proposed expenditures from the
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Conservation Collier Trust Funds, additional selection or acquisition policies,
procedures, and programs and other such matters as may be necessary to fulfill the
purposes of Conservation Collier. However, the goals and primary criteria of
Conservation Collier may not be modified except by countywide referendum vote.
(3) The land acquisition advisory committee shall have no power or authority to
commit Collier County to any policies, to incur any financial obligations or to
cream any liability on the part of the county. The actions and recommendations of
the land acquisition advisory committee are advisory only and shall not be binding
upon the county unless approved or adopted by the Board of County
Commissioners.
(4) At such time as there are insufficient uncommitted funds in the Conservation
Collier Acquisition Trust Fund to conclude another acquisition and all acquisition
projects have been closed, the land acquisition advisory committee shall report to
the county commission that its business is concluded. All remaining Conservation
Collier Acquisition Trust Fund monies shall then be transferred to the
Conservation Collier Management Trust Fund. Thereafter, unless and until
additional funds are appropriated by the Board for the purpose of acquiring
additional Conservation Collier Program acquisitions, the land acquisition advisory
committee shall generally meet on a quarterly basis to review and make
recommendations to the Board as warranted regarding the management and
programs of the preserved land.•. .. - ..• - -- . •. - - - * . -
55, as amended.
FISCAL IMPACT: The approximate advertising cost is $300.
GROWTH MANAGEMENT IMPACT: None.
LEGAL CONSIDERATIONS: The County Attorney has reviewed this item and approved it
as to form and legality. Majority support of the Board is required for approval. -JAK
RECOMMENDATION: That the Board of County Commissioners direct the County Attorney
to advertise and bring back an Ordinance for Public Hearing to continue the Conservation Collier
Land Acquisition Advisory Committee and authorize the Committee to review and make
recommendations to the Board on the management and programs of the preserve lands.
PREPARED BY: Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Attachments: Proposed Ordinance, Transcript of March 11th discussion.
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COLLIER COUNTY
Board of County Commissioners
Item Number: 16.16.K.16.K.3.
Item Summary: Recommendation that the Board direct the County Attorney to advertise
for a public hearing an ordinance amending the Conservation Collier Ordinance to continue the
Conservation Collier Land Acquisition Advisory Committee and authorize the Committee to
review and make recommendations to the Board on the management and programs of the
preserved land.
Meeting Date: 5/13/2014
Prepared By
Name: CrotteauKathynell
Title: Legal Secretary, CAO Office Administration
5/5/2014 3:42:27 PM
Approved By
Name: SuleckiAlexandra
Title: Environmental Specialist, Principal, Conservation
Date: 5/6/2014 9:17:39 AM
Name: KlatzkowJeff
Title: County Attorney,
Date: 5/6/2014 10:34:18 AM
Name: FinnEd
Title: Management/Budget Analyst, Senior,Transportation Engineering&Construction Management
Date: 5/6/2014 2:56:28 PM
Name: OchsLeo
Title: County Manager, County Managers Office
Date: 5/6/2014 3:49:06 PM
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ORDINANCE NO. 2014-
AN ORDINANCE OF THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF
COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, AMENDING ORDINANCE NO. 2002-63,
AS AMENDED, KNOWN AS THE CONSERVATION COLLIER
IMPLEMENTATION ORDINANCE, IN ORDER TO MODIFY THE
ROLE OF THE LAND ACQUISITION ADVISORY COMMITTEE;
PROVIDING FOR CONFLICT AND SEVERABILITY; PROVIDING FOR
INCLUSION IN THE CODE OF LAWS AND ORDINANCES; AND
PROVIDING FOR AN EFFECTIVE DATE.
WHEREAS, on Tuesday, November 5, 2002, the electorate of Collier County authorized
a levy of 0.25 mill ad valorem property tax for a period of not to exceed 10 (ten years, for
acquisition, protection, restoration, and, management of environmentally sensitive lands in
Collier County for the benefit of present and future generations; and
WHEREAS, accordingly, the Board of County Collier County Commissioners (Board)
adopted Ordinance No. 2002-63, The Conservation Collier Implementation Ordinance, which
established the Conservation Collier Program and its Land Acquisition Advisory Committee; and
WHEREAS, Conservation Collier is not currently engaged in an ongoing acquisition
phase; and
WHEREAS, the Board wishes to amend Section 8 of The Conservation Collier
Implementation Ordinance in order to modify the role of the Land Acquisition Advisory •
Committee to allow them to review and make recommendations to the Board on the management
and programs of the preserved land.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT ORDAINED BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA,that:
SECTION ONE: AMENDMENT TO SECTION 8 OF ORDINANCE NO. 2002-63, AS
AMENDED.
Section 8 of Ordinance No. 2002-63, as amended, is hereby amended as follows:
Section 8 -Land Acquisition Advisory Committee.
1. Creation and purpose. The Land Acquisition Advisory Committee is hereby established
to assist the Board of County Commissioners in establishing an Active Properties Acquisition
List with qualified purchase recommendations consistent with the goals of Conservation Collier.
When active acquisition phases are not in place, the land acquisition committee's role shall be to
Words Underlined are added;Words Struck Through are deleted.
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review and make recommendations to the Board on the management and programs of the
preserved land.
2. Appointment and composition. The land acquisition advisory committee shall be
composed of nine (9) members who are appointed by and will serve at the pleasure of the Board
of County Commissioners in accordance with Ordinance No. 2001-55. Membership of The
Land Acquisition Advisory Committee shall comprise broad and balanced representation of the
interests of Collier County citizens, including.
a. Environmental. land management. and conservation interests in Collier County.
b. Agricultural and business interests in Collier County.
c. Educational interests in Collier County, and
d. General civic and citizen interests from throughout the county.
Individual members of the land acquisition advisory committee shall have expertise, knowledge
or interest in ecology, conservation of natural resources, real estate or land acquisition, land
appraisal, land management, eco-tourism or 'environmental education. A nominee shall submit
to the Board of County Commissioners written evidence of his or her expertise, knowledge or
interest in any of the above. The members of this committee should include representatives from
different areas of Collier County.
3. Terms of office. The initial terms of office of the members shall be staggered between
the individual interests, for balance purposes, and be set as follows:
a. Three (3) members shall serve three (3) years.
b. Three (3) members shall serve two (2) years.
c. Three(3) members shall serve one (1) year.
Thereafter, all appointments shall be for a term of three (3) years. The process for
appointments and terms of office shall be governed by Collier County Ordinance No. 2001-55,
as amended.
4. Officers, Quorum and Rules of Procedure. At its earliest opportunity, the membership of
the Committee shall elect a chairperson and vice chairperson from among the members.
Officers'terms shall be for a period of one (1) year, with eligibility for reelection.
The presence of five (5) or more members shall constitute a quorum of the Committee
necessary to take action and transact business. The Committee shall, by majority vote of the
entire membership, adopt rules of procedure for the transaction of business. The Land
Acquisition Advisory Committee shall comply with the applicable requirements of the Florida
Sunshine Law, and shall keep a written record of meetings. resolutions, findings and
Words Underlined are added; Words Struck Through are deleted.
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determinations in accordance with Chapter 112, Florida Statutes. Copies of all Committee
minutes, resolutions, reports, and exhibits shall be submitted to the Board of County
Commissioners. -
5. Attendance and vacancies. Committee member attendance requirements, including
failure to attend meetings and member removal from office are governed by Collier County
Ordinance No. 2001-55, as amended.
6. Functions, Powers and Duties of the Land Acquisition Advisory Committee. The Land
Acquisition Advisory Committee shall have the following duties and responsibilities:
a. The Land Acquisition Advisory Committee's primary responsibility is to
recommend to the Board of County Commissioners an Active Properties Acquisition List with
qualified purchase recommendations consistent with the goals of Conservation Collier and
pursuant to the policies outlined herein below.
b. The Land Acquisition Advisory Committee may, from time to time, recommend
to the Board of County Commissioners proposed expenditures from the Conservation Collier
Trust Funds; additional selection or acquisition policies, procedures, and programs; and other
such matters as may be necessary to fulfill the purposes of Conservation Collier. However, the
goals and primary criteria of Conservation Collier may not be modified except by countywide
referendum vote.
c. The Land Acquisition Advisory Committee shall have no power or authority to
commit Collier County to any policies, to incur any financial obligations or to cream any liability
on the part of the County. The actions and recommendations of the Land Acquisition Advisory
Committee are advisory only and shall not be binding upon the County unless approved or
adopted by the Board of County Commissioners.
d. At such time as there are insufficient uncommitted funds in the Conservation
Collier Acquisition Trust Fund to conclude another acquisition and all acquisition projects have
been closed, the Land Acquisition Advisory Committee shall report to the County Commission
that its business is concluded. All remaining Conservation Collier Acquisition Trust Fund
monies shall then be transferred to the Conservation Collier Management Trust Fund.
Thereafter, unless and until additional funds are appropriated by the Board for the purpose of
acquiring additional Conservation Collier Program acquisitions, the land acquisition advisory
committee shall generally meet on a quarterly basis to review and make recommendations to the
Board as warranted regarding the management and programs of the preserved land.
committee shall be reviewed by the Board of County Commissioners every four years in
tea.
Words Underlined are added;Words Struck Through are deleted.
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SECTION TWO: Conflict and Severability.
In the event this Ordinance conflicts with any other ordinance of Collier County or other
applicable law, the more restrictive shall apply. If any phrase or portion of the Ordinance is held
invalid or unconstitutional by any court of competent jurisdiction, such portion shall be deemed a
separate, distinct and independent provision and such holding shall not affect the validity of the
remaining portion.
SECTION THREE: Inclusion in the Code of Laws and Ordinances.
The provisions of this Ordinance shall become and be made a part of the Code of Laws
and Ordinances of Collier County, Florida. The sections of the Ordinances may be renumbered
or relettered to accomplish such, and the word "ordinance" may be changed to "section,"
"article," or any other appropriate word.
SECTION FOUR: Effective Date.
This Ordinance shall become effective upon receipt of notice from the Secretary of State
that this Ordinance has been filed with the Secretary of State.
PASSED AND DULY ADOPTED by the Board of County Commissioners of Collier
County, Florida,this day of , 2014.
ATTEST: BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
DWIGHT E. BROCK, Clerk COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA
By: By:
, Deputy Clerk TOM HENNING, CHAIRMAN
Approved as to form and legality:
Jeffrey A. Klatzkow, County Attorney
Words Underlined are added;Words Struck Through are deleted.
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March 11, 2014
CHAIRMAN HENNING: No further comments, questions?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: All in favor of the motion, signify by
saying aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion carries.
Thank you.
We're going to take a 10-minute break, be back at 10: 15.
(Recess.)
MR. OCHS: Mr. Chairman, you have a live mic.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay, we have a time certain at
10:45.
Item #1 lA
CONSERVATION COLLIER TEN YEAR FINANCIAL PLAN
AND RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THE CONSERVATION
COLLIER PROGRAM AND TO PROVIDE DIRECTION
REGARDING SUNSET OF THE CONSERVATION COLLIER
LAND ACQUISITION ADVISORY COMMITTEE (CCLAAC) -
MOTION TO CONTINUE THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE FOR
THE PURPOSE OF MANAGING PRESERVE LANDS WITH
MEETINGS HELD AS NEEDED, COUNTY MANAGER TO
RESEARCH AND EVALUATE THE GORDON RIVER
GREEN WAY PARCEL WITH RECOMMENDATIONS
BROUGHT BACK TO THE BOARD AND COUNTY ATTORNEY
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March 11, 2014
TO ADVERTISE AN AMENDMENT TO THE ORDINANCE —
APPROVED; MOTION REQUESTING STAFF TO CLEANUP
AND RECONCILE THE PHU, GET A CLEAR BASELINE
ASSUMPTION, HAVE A CLEAR MANAGEMENT PLAN AND
MAINTENANCE COSTS FOR THE PROPERTIES, WITH A
CLEARER 10 YEAR FINANCIAL OUTLOOK — APPROVED
MR. OCHS: Yes, sir, you do. That is Item 11 .A this morning.
It's a recommendation to accept the Conservation Collier I0-year
financial plan and recommendations from the Conservation Collier
program and to provide directions regarding sunset of the
Conservation Collier Land Acquisition Advisory Committee. Mr.
Steve Camel', your Public Services Administrator, will present.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Mr. Camel'?
MR. CARNELL: Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of
the Board.
Were going to take a moment this morning and update you on
what was discussed at the November workshop of the Board regarding
the future status of Conservation Collier.
As you know, this program has been a pretty significant
environmental preservation program that began some 12 years ago,
and we spent a great deal of time and effort through our friends and
contacts with our Land Acquisition Advisory Committee building this
program and spent an awful lot of time on environmental acquisition
over the years.
Today we're going to be talking about instead of land
preservation, financial preservation, specifically the future financially
of this program.
We've been, as you know, through a recession, and that recession
had some major financial hits on this program with regard to
projections and understanding of where our revenues and expenses
would be in the future. And we've really been addressing that
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incrementally since 2010. And today we want to talk to you about
that a little more comprehensively and talk about additional
recommendations that we have moving forward regarding curtailing
and controlling our expenses. And we also want to talk about the
future relationship of our Land Acquisition Advisory Committee,
which staff believes is, under the ordinance, that's due for sunsetting.
But we do want to talk about that relationship as we've had a very vital
and helpful constructive role and relationship with them.
Quickly I'm going to take you through a 10-year picture. We
have played around with numbers on this and worked and diced and
sliced them in detail out many years, but really felt like going much
beyond 10 years we couldn't really give you anything with any great
confidence.
So what you see here is a very high level summary of where the
fund is right now and where we think it's going to go over the next 10
years. And you have two columns in front of you. You have a kind of
five-year projection and a 10-year projection. And we've made that
break, because the five-year projection does include some ongoing
projects and amenities, improvements being added throughout the
properties; one of the most significant ones being of course the
Gordon River Greenway construction project due to finish in the fall
of 2014.
So if you look at the left-hand column through year five you'll
see that we have the fund balance starting at a little over $37 million,
and we have significant expenditures again in that capital
improvement line, operating maintenance cost as we continue to carry
out the management plans for the 19 different sites in the program.
And at year five you see the balance going from 37.2 million to
just a hair under $33 million.
And we also during that time will be setting escrow funds aside
for the Caracara Preserve in terms of perpetual maintenance of that
property, based on the mitigation credits we'll be receiving through the
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Solid Waste Department.
And then you'll see at the end of year five we decline. The
balance of the fund has declined a little over $4 million.
And then if you go into the second column, which is a
cumulative 10-year list, it includes the first five years and works in the
second five years, you'll see that the fund balance actually inches up a
very small amount of numbers.
And what you glean from this in simple terms is that we are
going to spend down some funds over the next five years, but we
project being able to flatten out the fund balance in the second five
years.
And I'll give you a little more detail on that in this next slide.
This is what we refer to as the steady state, which is the point
where really all the properties are fully developed, all the amenities
are fully in place and all the amenities are in place and maintenance
has been stabilized. And that we anticipate will occur around 2022 or
be the ninth year of this 10-year discussion we're having.
And if you'll look there, you'll see at that point in time the --
through the first five years in that left-hand column we've averaged
reduction of about $845,000 on the fund. That's through the first five
years, average annual reduction of about $845,000.
In the second five years we're essentially breaking even. There's
actually a small surplus of about almost $11,000.
Now, this is all predicated on assumptions. We're making
assumptions on interest rates very conservatively of anywhere from .5
percent to two percent over that 10-year period. And we've escalated
those over the 10-year period in incremental amounts to not
overestimate our position.
But at the moment what we're telling you in a nutshell is that we
believe the fund will be able to stabilize in the early 20's, and from
that point on we'll be able to hold serve, if you will, against our
ongoing maintenance expenses, based on the current level of service.
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INIMMI■■111111111111111■1111111111111■11111111■1111111111■11=111.1■111111111mak
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So in short we believe we can hold the current level of service
beyond 2023 in perpetuity. Of course that's predicated on a number of
factors with regards to expenses and revenues.
This assumes no additional capital projects or level of services,
and no additional level of service beyond what's contemplated over
the next five years primarily.
And I will review that that five-year plan does include the
construction of the Gordon River Greenway, it includes also $645,000
towards the construction of a bridge across the Gordon River that
would link the new park that the City of Naples is building to the
south end of the Greenway property. And that's budgeted for 2018.
There's another variable in all this which is in between that
bridge and the projected closure point of the Greenway project
property now is a property that's owned by Collier Corporation that
Ellie Krier, Friend of the program and part of the Southwest Florida
Preservation Land Trust, has been in discussion with the Colliers and
has an offer from the Colliers to sell the property in the amount of
$400,000. If you have any questions on the details of that, Ellie I'm
sure can address it.
We have received $103,000 in mitigation monies from an
adjoining property owner. And if you put those two together, you
have about 200 -- almost a $300,000 negative hit on the fund that is
not accounted for in these projections.
If there's interest in pursuing that, and staff thinks it's a good idea
to acquire that property, our recommendation would be that we would
forestall the budgeting of the bridge in 2018. There's $465,000 there.
And you can take $300,000 out of that so that we can buy this
property sooner and complete the footprint on the east side of the
Gordon River, if you will, and then we could look down the road for
other opportunities to fund that bridge in future years.
But we'll -- that segues into the point that we will need to
continue to look for opportunities to synergize with other programs,
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other land holding programs out there and obviously grant
opportunities for future development of sites.
Another important factor, and I want to put this in your mind but
I have to tell you, I have to be a little nebulous about it, because we
really haven't ironed out the detail. But a very important consideration
in all this in terms of managing our operating expenses is something
that the County Manager really commissioned back in 2012 when he
reorganized his divisions and he strategically placed Conservation
Collier within the Parks and Recreation Department.
His intentions there were that he knew that as we approached
build-out -- that's the wrong word to use in environmental preservation
property -- full development of the amenities, if you will, that we
would be moving into an operational mode and it would make sense to
look for synergistic connection between parks programs and what
Conservation Collier is doing.
And we have some things in mind. And our budget projections
include some assumptions about moving staff positions out of the
Conservation Collier. In some cases we'll eliminate them, in some
cases we'll move them into Parks and Recreation.
We don't have absolute specific firm dates on when all of that
will happen. We have projections that it will happen over the
five-year period. That will be subject to change year-to-year in the
annual budget, but obviously it will be managed in a way in which the
solvency of the Conservation Collier fund will be sustained each year.
So that's an important consideration. And I think there's going to
be a winner there in the long run in terms of really being able to find
some economies of scale and efficiency if we merge Parks and Rec
and Conservation Collier even more so than they are now.
So with that, I wanted to also reference our ordinance that I just
touched on briefly. There's been discussion previously. The ordinance
formulated and called for the Advisory Committee to assist with the
acquisition process.
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The staff view on this is that the acquisition process is effectively
done. There may be a couple of small properties that we buy to add to
different locations along the way. But we don't have the kind of the
grind that we had for so many years where we were actively searching
for property, and we were convening our advisory committee to help
us with that, of which they provided tremendous assistance.
So we're at a point where from a staff perspective we believe that
the ordinance calls for the sunsetting of the committee when the
acquisition phase is done, and that's where we believe we're at.
The Advisory Committee members don't believe it's in the best
interest of the citizens to sunset the committee. I think they'd like to
talk to you briefly about some alternative ideas they have to that. I
think they understand that the committee would not continue to
function the way it has and the role would need to change, and I'd like
you to hear from them on what their ideas are with that.
With that I'll answer some initial questions and then let's hear
from your speakers.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay, Commissioner Fiala was first,
Commissioner Hiller and Commissioner Nance.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, I really don't have any
questions for you.
As I studied this, I carefully read the letter from Bill Poteet and
marked it all up and everything to see what points he was making.
I've carefully watched their progress. And I'm very, very pleased with
all that they have done. I would hate to ever see us lose that land; I
would hate to see us give it away. I think it's an important part of our
community. And we must keep it, we must preserve it. And I'm sure
that we'll find the ways to do that continuously.
But what I think now is I think we need to keep that committee
intact. Even if they meet just a couple times a year, just for advice, if
nothing else. If there's some important projects that come up or how
to spend the dollars, what's -- how can they best be used, what animals
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need to be preserved, what plant life needs to be preserved, what water
sources do we need to reach out and make sure are totally preserved as
well. So I would hate to see us lose that committee.
And isn't it funny, there's 11 of them on that committee, and
nobody wants to leave. And they're not getting paid a thing. They're
ready to do all the work as required and they're just volunteering their
services. I think that's admirable in itself.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah, and I would agree. My
perspective is similar to Commissioner Fiala's. I did not mark up
Bill's letter like that. In fact, when I looked over and saw how
Commissioner Fiala marked it up, I was afraid she was going to say
you got a D, because there were like so many, you know, underscores,
red lines and comments. But as it turns out, you got an A, so it's the
unintended positive consequence of her review.
But seriously, I think what we ought to do is relabel the
committee and label it, you know, the management advisory
committee and have the commit-tee meet as needed by request to the
County Manager and let the committee come to the County Manager
and say, you know, we feel the need to meet because we have this
issue that we want to work on and address, and allow for a cooperative
spirit between staff and that committee to deal with what needs to be
done.
One thing we don't want to do is to mandate that the committee
must meet so many times a year and it turn out that there's really no
need for as many times, or maybe there are more times that are
needed, and have some flexibility in the process to allow the
community to work with the County Manager to agree when you want
to meet, what resources you need to work on whatever project you
have in front of you at a point in time.
So I know we have speakers on this, but I would preliminarily
like to make a motion that we amend the ordinance -- that we direct
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the County Manager to amend the ordinance to come back with a
redefinition of what this committee does and, you know, how they will
meet based on what I just described.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'll second your motion and I like
the idea of management. We could call it land management advisory
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah, or preservation management
advisory committee, you know, in keeping the spirit of--
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Nance?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- that alive.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes, Mr. Chairman, I'm going to
speak to this a little bit different, because I think we're at a very
important juncture with Conservation Collier. I think we're really
entering a very different phase of this project. And this is being
proposed today as a 10-year financial plan. So actually what I want to
do with your indulgence to the audience and the Board is I want to
speak to a little bit about what this 10-year financial plan says and
some of the concerns I have about it so that we can go forward and
ensure that Conservation Collier is healthy and that it's operating and
doing everything that we said it was going to do and everything that
we hoped for.
But I just want to go through a few things that I observed by
looking at these numbers, because I am a numbers guy and I want to
just bring a few things to the attention.
I looked with a great interest on how this 10-year financial plan
and the presentation that the Board received today differs from what
the Advisory Committee presented as an intermediate financial
projection on the 7th of January.
One of the things that's an obvious omission in what's being
presented to the Board today as a treatment of the perpetual escrow
funding that's required for restoration work required under the
Mitigation Credit Agreement with U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and
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what that does to this fund over the next 10 years.
And basically what it does is Mr. Camell had it on a couple of his
slides here, but what's not present in this presentation and certainl y
should be are the payments totaling $5,887.000 which we have to
place in a single purpose escrow fund for the perpetual maintenance of
these panther habitat units which we claim were going to sever.
That is important. Why is that important? Because what it does
is it effectively reduces at the end of 10 years the fund balance from
$37 million to $27 million. That's a 25 percent reduction of the fund
balance in the first 10 years of the life of this perpetual Conservation
Collier program.
Where I come from, perpetual means forever. I have a little
anxiety when we have so much front-loaded spending in the first five
years that we reduce our fund balance in the first 10 by 25 percent, or
nearly $10 million.
I think some of the weaknesses in this financial plan -- and I'm
going to suggest that we do some more work on it. I think it's very
front-loaded, as Mr. Carnell indicated. As a matter of fact, the loss, as
presented in this plan, occurs in the first five years. There's a loss of
over $4 million to the fund balance in the first five years.
What does that mean? That means that our financial plan calls
for us to spend money upfront and find savings later. That's always
risky because I think everybody would admit that the financial
situation that we find ourselves in, the financial situation that v,e find
ourselves in, the financial position, is not as strong as we would like.
So I think it deserves extra work. I believe quite possibly that
costs are understated in here. I don't think the fully-loaded cost of
some of the maintenance is what it should be.
As a matter of fact, if you go to the right edge and you do a little
bit of calculations with one of your little $9.00 calculators, you'll see
that out of the total expenditures and uses reported in this first table,
$10,698.000, 42 percent of that money is in staff administrative and
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overhead. 42 percent. Only 30 percent of those expenditures are
designated as preserve maintenance expenditures. That's the phase
we're supposed to be in here. And only 28 percent of those are in
improvements. And certainly these improvements that we have,
which all in the five years have been cut to the bone, don't
contemplate the full development of the amenities, which is what we
talked about in this program, and certainly no programming.
In addition, one concern that I have, and there's a little statement
in the executive summary that says they're going to transfer Pepper
Ranch ranger responsibilities to the Parks and Recreation Department.
So I would like to know exactly how much of the expense of running
this program is now being assumed by Parks and Recreation. It was
my understanding that this program was supposed to pay all costs.
We shouldn't be delegating some of these expenses to Park and Rec.
So can somebody tell me how many dollars are being transferred
from this program over to Parks and Recreation?
MR. WILLIAMS: Commissioners, Barry Williams, Parks and
Recreation Director.
As you mentioned, Commissioner Nance, part of our plan with
the AUIR over the last five years has been to look at the campground
operations of Pepper Ranch's being transferred to the Parks and
Recreation Department. That's consistent from a couple of different
reasons.
One, as you mentioned, you know, Conservation Collier's
primary mission is the preservation of lands. And one of the things
that the County Manager's done in associating Conservation Collier
with our department is our ability to manage recreational type
programs. So that benefits our AUIR and the requirements that we
have for the Parks and Rec Department
We want to, in this coming AUIR cycle, transfer acreage
associated with Pepper Ranch that is more recreational to the Parks
Department. That helps us in identifying our level of service, but also
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allows us to -- we're in a better position we think to manage the
campground and the activities of Pepper Ranch. Part of that is we do
have a system where we are able to collect fees. Conservation Collier
doesn't have that system. So we think that we're better suited for that.
And that's been in the plan for the last five years for us to do that.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: I understand. I have no problem
obviously in the operation and synergy. But I think it should be made
clear what Parks and Recreation is assuming relative to Conservation
Collier. The taxpayers have a right to know clearly what is associated
with Parks and Rec and Conservation Collier.
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes, sir. And the position, it's a half-time
position. We're looking at about $17,000. What we're able to do,
though, is that we can offset that cost in general fund with the
revenues that we do receive from the recreational opportunities of
Pepper Ranch.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: You know, in summary, I don't
want to bt- abor this, but the presentation that was made today,
obviousi\\ everybody wants to put it in the most positive light. I don't
mind that. I like things in a positive light. But I think when we're
accepting a 10-year financial plan, that it's time for a little tough love
on this program. And I do think it needs additional considerations. I
think there are some -- some suggestions have been made that have
been alluded to in the executive summary about synergies with other
county and state agencies that will afford us an opportunity to save
money.
And, you know, we certainly have to work on it from both sides.
I think we have to work on it from the spending side and we have to
work on it from the revenue side. And I do agree that there are some
opportunities for us to get enhanced revenue. But I'm not completely
thrilled with this 10-year financial plan for these reasons.
CHAIRMAN HENNING Well, can we stay on this for a minute
and get some explanation? That's -- is it $5 million to the agency or
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we need to put into reserve for maintenance of the PHUs?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Commissioner, the way I
understand it, it is a single purpose escrow account that we have to
transfer money in. It's a single purpose account per our obligations and
mitigation -- with our mitigation credit agreement with U.S. Fish &
Wildlife Service.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: That's the PHUs?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes, for PHUs. And this 10-year
financial plan calls us, for example, to sever some from the Caracara
Preserve and sell them to solid waste. I assume that the $700,000 that
we're selling to solid waste is in this year's budget.
MR. CARNELL: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Okay. And then $600,000 the
following year. So before we can sever those, I believe that we are
obligated to have this money in escrow. And likewise with severing
PHUs from the Pepper Ranch which are included in here, between
those two items, you've got one-time revenue into Conservation
Collier of a $1,606,000.
Now, that's well and good. But what that does is that basically
places in escrow I assume permanently nearly $6 million which
doesn't provide income to this program. Dedicated income is for the
mitigation; am I right?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I think you need to ask is (sic) when
we sell those credits and it has to be at market value, because the
government needs to get the best price. Solid waste department needs
to, when they buy or any government entity, needs to go at the best
lowest price.
So are we selling it to them at the best lowest price?
MR. CARNELL: We're selling it to them at cost. And the plan
right now, sir, that's based on the prior direction of the Board five
years ago. That doesn't mean the Board couldn't change that direction.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Well, we need to take a look at what
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the market value is. So then you needed to consider should these --
should we go after panther credits or other kind of credits.
MR. CARNELL: The plan -- I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: We need that analysis.
MR. CARNELL: Sure. Well, let me tell you what the
assumptions are for the sake of this 10-year plan. The assumptions are
that we will be collecting impact fee credit payments from the Solid
Waste Department over a two-year period, FY 14, FY 15 for the
Caracara site -- I'm sorry, panther habitat units.
And then for Pepper Ranch in FY 19 -- 19 or '18? '20. All right,
what we're going to be doing is when we get to the Pepper Ranch
project, we will begin selling those credits. And right now they're
designated for sell to county departments.
And if you remember the discussion way back, at the time the
intent was -- I mean, it's a choice of do you want to make money or do
you want to save money. And the five of you are presiding over that
question, because it affects the five of you in managing the county in
either way.
If you want to save money, save money on county projects, then
you sell at cost. If you want to make money so that Conservation
Collier's financial position is improved, then you sell, as
Commissioner Henning is talking about, at market rate or perhaps
something between cost and market rate.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Has the committee ever discussed
that, the PHUs and the cost?
MR. CARNELL: I'm not sure.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Not only the cost but --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I think the question is legally what
are we obligated to do.
MR. KLATZKOW: It's really the same thing. I mean, staff gives
a discounted cost or you sell it to the outside market, the end result to
the county is the same thing. So whatever the Board's preference is
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CHAIRMAN HENNING: Yeah, it's just coming out of one fund
or the other.
My preference is you need to take a look at the enterprise fund.
And you need to take a -- we need to know what the market is.
And County Manager, quite frankly I would like to see an
analysis on what the market is, what it's going to cost us to maintain a
credit bank, PHU bank credit, and find out if it's cost feasible for us to
do so.
MR. CARNELL: I can tell you just briefly, if we charge the
credits at market rate, it's about 125,000 a year difference, versus cost.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I don't know what, is that black, red,
indifference, or what is it?
MS. SULECKI: Hello. For the record, Alex Sulecki,
Conservation Collier..
The market rate, which is our contract rate for mitigation, panther
habitat units, is 725 each. And in this model we're proposing we sell
them for 600 each.
CI IAIR.,.MlAN HENNING: Okay. So we're selling it below cost,
or below market.
MS. SULECKI: We're selling them at the amount it's going to
take to fund the escrow account to pay for the management of the
property.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: For 10 years.
MS. SULECKI: Yes. We've look at it in that 10-year period.
But those payments for what we estimate are between 8,000 and 9,000
PHUs actually go on long after this spreadsheet you see. I think they
go on for something like 80 years.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Well, you need to maintain the
property for more than 10 years, so --
MS. SULECKI: Yes. And the cost of those PHUs pays for that
maintenance of that property.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay.
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COMMISSIONER HILLER: So you've basically done a
matching analysis. You've figured out what your costs were and you
basically married whatever the price of the PHU is.
MS. SULECKI: Exactly.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: What was some of the other things
you brought up, Commissioner, that need to be answered?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Well, you know, I'm just
concerned that the reduction -- the things that I mentioned are that the
costs are I think strongly front-loaded. It's heavy in my view, in staff
administrative and overhead as a percentage of the budget.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Can we deal with that issue? Because
actually you've got two on here; you've got staff maintenance and
administrative staff. So I think we need to explain that. It might be --
MR. CARNELL: At the present time the program has four
full-time positions. And that is three environmental specialists of
different persuasions and then one administrative staff person. And
then we have a half time, what we call job bank or temporary arranger
position.
And the plan is in FY 15 -- as I said earlier, we haven't nailed this
down over the life of the 10 years, because we're going to see how
things play out on a number of fronts. But in FY 15 the plan is to take
half of the administrative persons salary and benefits and fund that
through Parks and Recreation, and I believe the park ranger as well?
MR. WILLIAMS: Yes.
MR. CARNELL: Okay, the ranger -- that's that 17,000 that
Barry was talking about shifting out beginning in FY 15.
And then there is a plan as well to remove one of the
environmental specialist's positions in FY 19. As we're moving -- and
the basis for that is the timing of activity. We'll be through the bulk of
new projects. Really the new projects will be done, and we'll be
moving in, transforming towards that steady state which comes in
2022. We'll still have some maintenance activity at a little higher
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level, but the project activity will especially be done.
So again to summarize it, we go from four permanent positions
now plus one temporary position to eventually two permanent
positions.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Nance?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes. Well, my point is, Mr.
Carnell, in this is if you look at these 10 years, by the time you get to
year 17, which is only three years from now, you've made this
commitment. You've already spent down the fund balance by
$4,228,000. By the time you get to that point, it's in the mill, it's
committed, it's done.
What you do with the next five doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.
You've already made the impact on that. And by the time you put this
money in escrow you're down to $27 million. There's no way you can
change that over the next five years. Nothing we can do.
The commitment we're making in the next three years -- the
commitment we're making with this first time we approve the plan is
going to tell us where we're going to go. There's nothing you're going
to do to recover. If you're not happy with the results through year '17,
it doesn't matter, there's no recovery. You can't come back from it, sir.
MR. CARNELL: Yes, this is a conservative plan in the sense
that we are not identifying new revenues for the program, and nor are
we identifying new scope in terms of activities or properties beyond
what's been envisioned for some time.
I think your point's very salient, Commissioner. We are talking
about losing a quarter of the fund's capital taken out of production.
Now, we do need to be clear, that 5.8 million will still be there,
you're absolutely right, in a dedicated purpose, and it can't be used to
support other operations, but it will be there.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Well, it needs to be in this report,
sir. And it was in the earlier report. And I don't know why you didn't
present it to the Board today. Because it is significant. And actually, I
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don't care for that a lot. I think it's a little on the disingenuous side.
MR. CARNELL: Well, sir, again, if you look at the slide that's
up on the screen, you see that the PHUs are accounted for.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: I understand, sir, I understand it's
on this slide. But it's not in the materials that were provided to the
Commissioners here on this dais.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: It's new evidence. Do we need to
accept that?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: No, I think we should reject it.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, because staff can add
whatever they want at the dais.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: I'm not trying to be hypercritical.
Please don't understand (sic). I take those very seriously. I am a big
supporter of Conservation Collier and I want to see it in perpetuity.
MR. CARNELL: I understand, sir.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: And the next time if somebody
decides to take it to the public, I want Conservation Collier to look
everybody in the eye and say you know what, we did a great job,
which they did. I commend the committee on what they did. But they
got caught by the economy. Everybody needs to understand that. We
don't need to try to hang onto something that we can't do. We need to
have other ways to reach out to the community.
And I've spoken to the committee members, spoken to yourself
about things we can do to engage the committee. I do not think that
we need to go forward with the Advisory Committee as it's currently
constituted; I'll just throw that in at this time. I think we need to have
a dedicated Conservation Collier maintenance advisory committee.
Our mission at this point --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So you're agreeing with the
motion.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Excuse me?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: You're agreeing with my motion.
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COMMISSIONER NANCE: I think we need to reconstitute the
committee. I do not believe we need to continue the current
committee, I think we need to go out and constitute a new advisory
committee that has as its stated purpose maintenance, and that is
completely different from land acquisition.
And that's not a criticism of the Land Acquisition Committee in
any way. I think they're all community champions, and I've said that
from the beginning. But we have a situation here where honestly I
don't think we're as strong financially as everybody would like. You
know, that's just me. I'm just putting that on the table in view of
honesty. And I think we need to work on this to make sure that we get
the additional programming that people are expecting, that we get the
full development of the amenities that we're talking about.
And this 10-year plan not only does not contemplate it, I think it's
going to cause us to be in a position where we can't.
MR. CARNELL: Let me just a couple of points. First off, the
escrow funds are accounted for, backup material as well as the slides.
Accounted for throughout the calculations. And I think Commissioner
Nance, I think you and I would have the same view here and the staff
would have the same view that the fund going forward is not going to
have a lot of play in it, that we are at a point where we're not going to
be able to fund new initiatives if no new revenue is introduced.
What we are telling you is, though, with some reasonable
management, with proper economies of scale, year to year as we
manage our operating budgets in the county and we follow through on
the management plans that have been previously approved, although
as you noted in the executive summary we scaled back that activity
and we have several hundred thousand dollars worth of savings
identified. When you put all that together, I think you end up, $27
million does give us room to operate. It does allow us to maintain
what we have, or pretty darn close.
And I say the pretty darn close, we're going to have to evaluate it
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year to year. I'm not going to sit here and promise you the world
because I don't know what happens to interest rates over 10 years. I
don't know what happens to inflation over 10 years.
I can tell you, we've taken an inflation rate that's more -- that's
higher than the interest rate earning in these calculations. So we've
tried to bleed the fund a little bit already.
But I think the public needs to understand that the fund in terms
of what it was commissioned to do 12 years ago is able to meet that
obligation. And based on what we see, we think we can keep that
fund in the upper 20 million, that middle to upper $20 million fund,
level, the balance going forward.
Now, one thing the Board may want to do that's alluded to, and I
really do appreciate all of your comments. Commissioner Nance has
made several suggestions about trying to change the direction of the
fund and look for ways to maybe bring some new revenue through the
community into the process, and we're going to look at that in the
future where opportunities present.
But what I'm saying to you now is we're in a position where we
think we can by and large hold serve going forward. And obviously
we'll have to look as a community as to whether we want to introduce
any new revenue or if there is opportunity to introduce new revenue,
that would be tied to new acquisitions or to new amenities, not to
what's planned and identified already. So I want to be clear about
that.
And if there are any others questions from any of the
Commissioners, (sic) happy to address those as well.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Are you done, Commissioner
Nance?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Coyle? And if you
don't mind. I'd like to go.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
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Comments in three areas. One with respect to the committee
itself. I think certainly we should continue to have an advisory
committee. And I think we should recognize that the skills we have in
the advisory committee even now are not just skills for property
acquisition. There are people with exceptional skills on that committee
that I think we should certainly retain. We can add some other people
to it, there's no question about that, and perhaps that would be wise.
But I wouldn't like to see the Board, in their interest in continuing
the committee, to eliminate all the people who are on the committee,
because I think they've done a great job and I think they can continue
to do a great job.
The second thing is that with respect to the panther habitat units,
if we're charging exactly what it's costing us, we're not going to go
broke. Ifs only when you start charging less than it costs us that you
go broke.
And I don't see that as a serious threat, but there are many areas
here where you can improve on the budget. There are not many areas
where I think the budget would be worse than what you have
projected.
The interest rates that you are anticipating over the next 10 years
are, in my estimation and in the estimation of just about every person
who invests, are extremely, extremely low. Even at existing interest
rates, investing in the safest possible instruments, which are treasuries,
if you were to invest this fund equally laddered over two, three and
five-year treasuries, you could almost double your rate of return and
not risk the capital. Because you will be getting the full face value of
the bonds as they come to term. And as the ones on the shorter end;
that is, the one or two-year investments, mature, you can role those
over into another five-year and continue to take advantage of any
increases in interest rates that have occurred since you started
investing.
So at the present time you are assuming investments in nothing
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more than three years. And that's a very short horizon for a fund that is
supposed to last in perpetuity. But I would not recommend going
beyond five years, because interest rates are moving rapidly and we
want to be in a position to take advantage of those things.
And five years is certainly not out of the question. You can
protect your principal that way and probably double the rate of return
that you're expected here. If you do that, you wipe out the loss that
you are budgeting in the early years and you make things even better
for the later years.
And as far as staff is concerned, I definitely think we need to take
a look at the costs associated with that. And also, by having an
advisory committee that focuses on maintenance, I see them doing a
lot of things that could reduce our administrative costs. So I think we
need to look into all those things.
But with respect to the investment policy, we are the ones who
make the investment policy, not the Clerk. We make the investment
policy. This is a long-term fund, it needs to be managed with some
recoanition of that. That doesn't mean that I would recommend
investing anything for 10 years or more. But we can certainly go
ladder these things out for two, three and five years and do
substantially better on interest rate than we're doing right now.
And because this is a long-term fund, we don't intend to use it up
early, we don't need all the money early, so there's no problem with
investing it for those short periods of time for two, three and five
years.
So I think if the Clerk does not do that, we need to provide him
direction to do it. Or alternatively he can come back and tell us why
he thinks it's a bad idea. But we really do need to move on that, we
can't just sit around and start -- and accept half of a percent interest on
$36 million.
So anyway, that's my take on the whole thing.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Crystal, would you convey that and
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get back to us on thoughts?
MS. KINZEL: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: About the committee, reconstituting
the committee as a maintenance committee, understand that we have a
maintenance -- a management plan on these properties.
Are you saying to look at the effects of the management plan,
possibly critique it?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That would be one of the
functions. I mean, we can define. And that's an actually good thing to
Look at.
It's looking at the program activity, the maintenance of the
environmental component. There are many different ways that you
can look at maintenance. I think the scope is broad enough that they
can do a lot of good.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Well, what about
reconstituting the tax?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: That's a separate question.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I know, but that's the real issue here
on why there's a desire to continue it, in my opinion.
Is anybody in favor of reconstituting, have the committee re--
COMMISSIONER FIALA: That's such a separate subject. I
haven't even -
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: It has to do with Conservation
Collier.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, you know, if they want to
re--
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Same players are there.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- let them discuss it, let them
evaluate it, and come back and --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Have the committee do that?
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COMMISSIONER HILLER: They could.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I'm not in favor of that.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I don't think the committee would
want to do that, but I think that the people who started it originally
would want to discuss it and if--
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I'm flexible.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- they want, to go ahead.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: If the Board would --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Let's do it in 2017.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: If the Board would like to, you
know, limit the scope of the committee to certain specific enumerated
tasks, we can do that. Or we can leave it broader and let them come
back to us with what recommendations, you know, they would like
based on what they see as the need with respect to maintenance.
But it is with respect to maintenance. And I guess to go back to
your question, you know, would bringing back the tax fall under the
committee. Not if it's a maintenance committee. Because we're not
going to levy a tax to maintain.
And as staff properly pointed out, they're basically going to start
treating -- actually, I believe you pointed it out, you're going to start
treating part of this program in effect as an enterprise fund where
you're going to have fees for, you know, the various services that the
program will provide.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And I don't even --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And I like the idea of blending it
with Parks. I mean, I think that's great. I think the fact that we can
actually leverage the relationship between Conservation Collier and
Parks is what has always been recommended and what should be
done.
I don't see a negative financial picture as Commissioner Nance
describes. I mean, I agree --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Well, wait a minute --
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COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- with Commissioner Coyle.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- I'm not done yet.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Okay, I didn't know. I thought that
was --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I was asking what this committee's
going to do. Because --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: What are the discussions about?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- the ordinance, when you create the
ordinance there has to be specificity so they don't go out there --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- on other things --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: As we always do.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- like global warming or something
like that.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: So that's why I brought it up.
If reconstituting the tax, bringing that up, which I'm not in favor
of, but if you're in favor of it, that's fine, they can -- if the majority is
in favor of it. That's the question. But I have other --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Let me suggest that --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I have questions from staff.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right.
I think that -- and I think you raise a very good point and I think
we should be clear that the purpose of-- and I think Commissioner
Fiala supports your position that the purpose of this committee -- and I
agree with Commissioner Coyle that we want to bring forward the
same people. If we want to add, we can, but the group of people that
have been the core of this committee have worked very hard and have
done a very good job. So we're not intending to dismantle the
committee. It's in evolution. We're moving from the acquisition
phase to the maintenance/management phase.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I think you --
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COMMISSIONER HILLER: And that would not include --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: You want expertise.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right. And we can supplement --
yeah, supplement with experts, you know, if we don't have them
currently on the committee.
But my point is that maintenance and programming, which is
essentially the management of these preservation lands, is not taxed to
buy more land. That is a separate issue and a separate group. And I
think that's Commissioner Fiala's point and your point, Commissioner
Henning, and I agree with that.
So I'll make sure that that's clear in my motion. I'll amend my
motion to include that clarification.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: The questions that I have in the
recommendations, and let me get to them, is delay some maintenance.
I guess removing exotics from a few properties?
MR. CARNELL: Yes, they're outlined in the executive
summary, sir.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Right. But I don't know why you're
making those recommendations to delay the maintenance of it,
removing exotics.
MR. CARNELL: Are you talking about delaying or reducing the
costs?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Delaying. Delayin2.
MR. CARNELL: Well, what we're delaying is listed at the
bottom of the first page. Alex?
MS. SULECKI: Yes, we're delaying the capital type projects,
several that we have. That's in --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Say that one more time, please?
MS. SULECKI: We're delaying the capital type projects for
public access amenities, not the exotic removal.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay, the -- then why would we
delay making improvements to the one off old 41?
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MS. SULECKI: The railhead scrub --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Railhead, thank you. Why are we
delaying that?
MS. SULECKI: One of the reasons is that the road that we were
depending on to get people to that preserve has been put out in our
long-range transportation plan into 3035 (sic). So we felt that it was, in
this time looking ahead these 10 years, that it would not be -- we could
do that without a problem because we probably couldn't build it
anyway.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Is that the same thing with the
other, delaying the other improvements?
MS. SULECKI: No, Rivers Road Preserve, we chose that to
delay some of the amenities because of some comments that were
made by Commissioner Nance about stars in our program and
focusing on the amenities of those star properties. So we chose that to
remove.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. I listened to the last
Conservation Collier committee and there was talk about -- well,
• Commissioner Nance was talking about transferring some properties
to other agencies. And the committee says yeah, we took a look at
that and it doesn't make sense, or something like that. But there was no
explanation. However, I see in the report at least one property there is
a little bit of interest in doing so.
MS. SULECKI: Which one was that?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I think it's the one in the CREW
lands.
MS. SULECKI: The CREW land?
MR. OCHS: Camp Keais.
MS. SULECKI: Camp Keais?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Yes, Camp Keais.
MS. SULECKI: And we're talking about U.S. Fish & Wildlife,
right?
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CHAIRMAN HENNING: Yes,
MS. SULECKI: Okay. What they had told me was that they
could see in the future there may be a way to annex it, because ifs
close enough to their Florida Panther National Wildlife boundary, but
that is something that is way, way in the future, if its possible.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Why don't we provide something in
writing to agencies? Rookery Hay is one. There's a parcel down there
that we require that
MS, SULECKI: Shell Island Preserve.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Yes. It has literally no access to it.
MS. SULECKI: Well, I did, actually. I asked in writing DEP for
a response about whether to trade or donation. And I asked that back
in January, and I didn't get a response.
I finally talked to the lady who's in charge of that last night at the
state and she told me that they've had a very sudden leadership change
of the state and that she was not able to get an answer before that
change happened. So she's asked me to wait a little bit longer.
But I did send her some information about that property.
But the problem with that is The Conservancy helped pay for
that, and they object to divestiture. One of the problems.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: How much did they pay?
MS. SULECKI: I think they contributed $125,000.
CIIAIRMAN HENNING: And what would the value of the land
be if sold?
MS. SULECKI: The purchase price for us was $5 million. I
don't know what its value is today.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So, I mean, one of the things, if--
and I'm not suggesting that we will consider selling it, but we could
refund The Conservancy their monies.
MS, SULECKI: I suppose you could, but -- and I don't want to
get too far down a rabbit hole here, but that property, the value of that
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property was enhanced by the fact that the previous owner felt he had
an agreement with the county to build on a small portion of it. And so
that value was greatly expanded beyond just its face value because of
that. So I don't know what we could get for it now.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, we can take a look at it. We
don't want to get into those details.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I'm done.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Could we hear from our speakers?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Yeah. Well, it's up to the
Commissioners, if they're done with their questions. I think we've got
some direction on what we want to do.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: I've just got one more comment,
Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Yeah, we've still got two more.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: I would like to request that
whoever prepared this 10-year financial plan go back and include the
escrow funding in here. Because I believe that the numbers that are
presented to this Board are in error. The interest calculation and for
year '23 for example is stated as $659,600, which relies on a fund
balance of 32 million plus, almost 33. And I believe that should be
more like 27 million in the fund balance when you take the escrow
into account.
So I believe it's in error. It's certainly, at the very minimum, it's a
big divergence between what was presented on January 7th and what's
being presented today. So which one is wrong? One of them is in
error.
MR. CARNELL: Let me answer your question. Just to confirm.
This was prepared jointly between Public Services staff and O&B.
MR. FINN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Edward Finn, Office of
Management and Budget, for the record.
If we could just put that in the visualizer, please, Steve?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: If I'm wrong, just show me where I
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am.
MR. FINN: Well, actually, the large spreadsheet attached to
your executive summary does attempt to present an all-in approach in
that the interest earnings on the escrow money is calculated there, as
are the expenses for the escrowed preserve areas. I attempt to put that
all in there.
You'll see the sheet on the visualizer, which I believe is the first
attachment after the executive summary, attempts to illustrate the
difference or the components of the ending balance with -- at year 10.
The Conservation Collier portion that's general in nature is 27
million, and the escrow portion is 5.6 million. So we attempted to roll
all that in.
I would certainly concur that there could be a neater way to
identify those in a large spreadsheet and I'd be happy to give that a
shot.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: So you're telling me it's in effect a
wash?
MR. FINN: Yes, sir, I believe it is.
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Okay, thank you.
MR. FINN: Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Hiller?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, that's what I wanted to say,
that it was a wash. I mean, and it clearly appears that way to me based
on all the information presented.
What Commissioner Coyle said is correct. I mean, this is actually
a conservative proforma projecting out to those 10 years, and we will
consistently direct staff to evaluate levels of hiring, cost to operate.
And I believe Leo, it is your commitment, as I have heard you
say in the past quoting me, to provide the highest level of service at
the lowest possible cost, correct?
MR. OCHS: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So I don't think that the
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recommendations that staff is presenting here today is what we really
should be adopting in our motion, because in our budget guidance to
you we have made that clear, and we have asked you consistently year
after year to make sure that, you know, not a dime is wasted. I mean,
it's certainly not anyone's intent to have staffing at a level that is not
needed.
Again, we're going to achieve efficiencies and savings by
working with Parks, we are going to create revenue streams by
building these parks out so that the public can use them. It is intended
that these parks be accessible to the public and they're to be enjoyed
by the public. So if we don't have the amenities in place, the public is
not going to go out there. I mean, they are not going to go out simply
to look at a green field, right? So we want the programs, we want the
infrastructure there so the public can enjoy it.
So the investment has to be made now in those improvements to
allow the community to get a return on their tax dollar.
I don't see this as negative as you're portraying, Commissioner
Nance. And I don't see the problems --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Well, that's somebody's opinion.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I understand. But it's not opinion
because we're dealing with, you know, numbers here. And again,
what Commissioner Coyle said, that this is really a very conservative
profile is what we should be looking to when we make our decisions
going forward.
MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am.
And Mr. Chairman, just a brief comment to Commissioner
Nance's concern about the PHU drawdown from the fund balance.
You recall when you a acquired Pepper Ranch and Caracara, the
discussion at the time in the midst of a very aggressive capital
improvement program was that the Board was spending quite a bit of
money on mitigation costs as a percent of their capital projects.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yes.
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MR. OCHS: So the intent was to look for a way to leverage
these investments to lower our construction mitigation costs. That
was essentially the idea.
Now, you're not married to that, Commissioner. In fact, most of
that five million drawdown comes in the second 10 years of this
10-year program. So if the Board in today's environment decides that
you're comfortable buying mitigation credits on the open market, $4
million of that five can revert back to the fund balance for
maintenance and more improvements to the program. So you have
another policy option there available to you.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And you're absolutely right, Leo.
In fact, I was a strong advocate of the policy option that you have
reflected in this proforma because it came up at the time when we
went to market to buy those PHUs from the Collier's bank. And 1 was
very upset about it because I kept on saying why have we not created
the mitigation banks on these preserve properties as was intended
when we made these acquisitions so that we didn't have to go to the
open market and do it.
So everything that's presented here today is consistent with what
the Board's direction was from back then right until now.
And you're right, prospectively we could change all that. But as
of right now this is a reflection of the Board's position and policy. So I
think you've accurately depicted what was directed.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Well, Commissioner Hiller, because
of your comments, we have two other commissioners that want to
comment.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I won't take more than 10 seconds.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay, you go first then.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. The other thing to
remember is that we have an escape clause. Sometime over the next
30 years we will have the public vote on another Conservation Collier
program.
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CHAIRMAN HENNING: If the majority of the Board agrees to
put it on there.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Or if they get enough signatures to
do it. And I think they can do it. And you set up another one and you
allocate some of that money for maintenance. So if you ever run into
problems, remember that, because I won't be here.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Nance?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Yes, I just want to add one thing,
and this is kind of in response to comments that Commissioner Hiller
made.
You know, each one of these properties, and there are some very
good properties here that do have opportunities for access that are
quality. There's some of them that aren't. Some of them there's no
reason to do a lot of development in them. But there's some that
would have some very good opportunities to allow public access.
My concern in this plan is in the way it's been, particularly in the
last five years, is that it doesn't contemplate doing anything with them.
It doesn't allow them. And if you look at the revenue and the
expenses that are projected, all you do is hold serve. You don't have
any opportunities to do anything other than what we're going to do this
year, as a matter of fact, with the greenway, which is one of the stars I
mentioned to the committee, and of course the Pepper Ranch which
could have much, much more done with it.
So that's my concern. My concern is the allocation of the dollars
over the different things that we could do as far as staff, preserve
maintenance and improvements. I just think we could do better.
That's the point of my whole discussion.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And you guys can have further
discussion over lunch on this. We're going to go to the public
speakers.
MR. MILLER: Mr. Chairman, you have 12 registered public
speakers for this item. Your first speaker is Nancy Payton. She'll be
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followed by William H. Poteet, Jr.
MS, PAYTON: Good morning, Commissioners. Nancy Payton,
representing the Florida Wildlife Federation. And thank you very
much for the very encouraging and informative discussion today.
Appreciate your interest in keeping Conservation Collier going.
We have five messages, brief messages for you today. One is to
keep all the land that's been purchased with Conservation Collier
dollars.
Two is to retain the committee. And we support its reconstituted
goal or a different mission or expanded mission.
We need to update the ordinance to reflect the new funding
options, possibly, the relationship to other agencies, the scope of the
program, and again the role of the committee needs to be addressed.
And we ask that that be done with the committee and with staff and
with the public participation.
And we ask that you carve out the Conservation Collier money
for a more aggressive investment policy so we can get maximum
amount of money for what we have.
And lastly, please consider sponsoring a 2006 (sic) ballot
question. And it's to put before the voters to simply say yea or nay for
renewing a Conservation —
CHAIRMAN HENNINCi: Do you mean 2016?
MS. PAYTON: 2016, sorry. 2016.
And those are my comments. And thank you to you and thank
you to the committee and thank you to staff.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Bill Poteet. Hell be
followed by Becky Newell,
MR. POTEET: Good morning, Commissioners.
First I'd like to start off and thank Commissioner Henning for
appointing me to this committee 10 years ago. He didn't realize at the
time but this was a legacy type of appointment. Because what we've
got to do over the last 10 years is going to be here for the next 100
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years, and my kids and my grand kids will enjoy that.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: So no term limits, right?
MR. POTEET: No term -- well.
And I want to thank Commissioner Hiller for giving me an A.
I'm going to tell my kids I got an A in school today.
I want to applaud the members of the Conservation Collier
committee. We've had an outstanding group of individuals on the
committee over the last 10 years with a variety of expertise. And
without them we couldn't accomplish what we have so far.
We did recommend that we extend the committee. I'd like to
make a suggestion on the renaming. Instead of just making it
management or land acquisition, just make it Conservation Collier
Advisory Board or Advisory Committee. Just simple. Because there
may be a time that you want to look at acquisitions only through
donations.
We've developed a mitigation policy where they could actually
donate in lieu of paying for site development or site preserves in
certain areas, so that could come into play.
We talked about the county budget and we talked about why it
was so fiscally restrained. And nothing of staff, because they do a
phenomenal job on providing the information there.
But, you know, at first we thought it was the State of Florida,
then we thought it was the Clerk's Office. And then it came back, we
found out that it's actually the Commission years ago set this policy
and it was in response to a state law that was created because of the
junk bond issue in California.
And, you know, it's typical what we consider overkill, and we
thought you ought to relook at your policy and see if it makes any
sense to be a little bit more aggressive than what you're doing.
Because right now you have $37 million in there making less than a
half a percent and that just didn't make sense for me from a business
standpoint.
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And then the third area that we wanted to talk to you about real
briefly is we think you should take this to the public and let them
make a decision. Ten years ago -- or 12 years ago they went and
voted on it. It received a 60 percent approval rating. Four years after
that they went back to the public and there was over 80 percent. This
is 80 percent to tax yourself, which is just unheard of.
Subsequently we've had hearings, discussions, meetings, and
nobody talks in the negative about this program. They all love what
we're doing. So it makes sense to let the people decide if they want to
do it again. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next public speaker is Becky Newell.
She'll be followed by Judith Hushon.
MS. NEWELL: My name is Becky Newell and I'm here today
representing the League of Women Voters of Collier County, and I'm
here to express the League's support for continuing the Conservation
Collier Advisory Committee.
The League approaches this from two different viewpoints. The
first is advisory committees in general, and we strongly believe, as I'm
sure you know, that it's very important to have public input into
government and that there be mechanisms for that to happen, and that
you carefully consider that public input.
We have been concerned on a slightly different note. We have
been concerned with the disbandment of many of the advisory
committees at the county level recently and we would encourage you
not to disband this one.
The second way that we approach this is by supporting
Conservation Collier itself. This is a popular program, you all realize
that, it's a very effective program.
We agree with Mr. Poteet's report that you have all read and that
you've given an A, and we greet with that. We think it's very
thorough. And that in his recommendations for what the committee
do in the future, he looks at what should be changed based on current
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circumstances and he makes some very reasonable requests for how
that could be handled.
I like the fact that he refers to the committee as stewards to the
public trust. Because that's exactly the League's perspective for what
this committee is.
On another topic that you have also been discussing that is not on
the agenda today, we would also like to express our support for
bringing this issue back to the voters. We think that's the appropriate
way for any decision to be made about this, it's the way it has to be
made. But we would hope that you would appreciate the fact that the
public should be allowed to weigh in on this. And I hope you'll bring
it back in 2016 to the voters. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Judith Hushon. She'll be
followed by Brad Cornell.
DR. HUSHON: Good morning, Commissioners.
This is such high public support. We have almost nothing in this
county that everybody loves as much as this program. They voted for
it 82 percent. That is phenomenal. Nobody -- none of you are sitting
here because you were elected by 82 percent. Just -- oh, I'm sorry,
Donna Fiala. Pardon me. Yes, it's true.
But it's just -- it's such an important program that we should be
doing everything we can to keep it, maintain it and move it forward.
Maintaining that committee, yes. Change the name, fine, no
problem.
Maintaining -- these properties need to be better maintained. I've
had people come to me and tell me, oh, you can't even walk on that
property, it's so overgrown, it's got all these invasives on it. It's
Conservation Collier and they're not maintaining.
1 would like to see us step up to that program. You know, we're
cutting back on some of these things. Be sure we don't cut back on the
maintenance and the development of these properties. These
properties are there for the people. We have to let the people get to
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them. So that's something that you as commissioners have as a
responsibility.
We should redirect funds -- we should not be redirecting funds
away from the Greenway Bridge. I don't know how that ever got in
there. It doesn't seem to even make sense. Yes, buying a piece of
property on the Greenway, that makes sense buying that last little
piece. I didn't have any problem with that.
I am all for putting this on the ballot in 2016. I am fairly certain
that the people of Collier County would once again vote to tax
themselves at the low rate that they are taxed to support Conservation
Collier going. And therefore some of this discussion about going out
and is it fiscally responsible and everything. I think we actually are
there to support this, we as county people.
And I do not recommend taking staff away from this program
and shunting them over to Parks and Recreation, only because this
program has jobs to be done in maintaining those properties and we
have to keep doing those jobs. So we can't strip the Conservation
Collier team down to where they cannot do anything in the future.
So that's -- those are my words, and keep it up, because it's good.
Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Brad Cornell. He'Il be
followed by Patricia Forkan.
MR. CORNELL: Good morning, Commissioners. I'm Brad
Cornell and I'm here on behalf of Audubon of the Western Everglades,
formerly known as Collier County Audubon Society, as well as
Corkscrew Swamp Sanctuary.
I want to thank you very much for your constructive
conversation, for the discussion that you've been having up to this
point. I really do appreciate the ideas you're putting on the table and
the positive nature that they represent.
Audubon fully supports keeping the advisory committee, We
also support the proposal that Commissioner Coyle has put on the
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table and that all of you have weighed in on to some extent about
looking at a better investment strategy for the public's money.
Also, it doesn't make sense, having looked at this in detail, to sell,
trade or gift any of the current properties that we have purchased. It
just doesn't work out. Nobody wants them at this time. And if they
did take them, we'd have to give them a lot of money to manage it. So
it makes a lot more sense for us to keep them.
And the last thing is of course that we fully support putting
Conservation Collier on the ballot in 2016. Let's give voters another
chance. I think that is only fair. This program is not done. I think it
-- all you have to do is look around the landscape. As it continues and
renews its urbanization push as development is ramping up again, this
is good for the economy and good for business. But if we aren't
careful, we're going to squander the quality of life that we have in our
urbanized areas and where we live.
Yes, we have opportunities to do other things as well, including
mitigation, integrating with the Watershed Management Plan, but our
quality of life is ultimately I think what the voters of Collier County
voted for in 2002 and again in 2006. And, you know, let's let them
vote. Putting it on the ballot doesn't say anything other than we want
to hear what you have to say, people of Collier County.
One other thing I want to --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: That's a straw ballot, Brad.
MR. CORNELL: Sorry?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: That's a straw ballot.
MR. CORNELL: It is. It's a referendum, unless it's bonding,
then it's obligatory.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Well, that's what we had before and
that was a referendum. And what you just said was a straw ballot. So
which one would we do in 2016, a straw ballot or a referendum?
MR. CORNELL: A referendum. A referendum is a straw ballot.
It's -- basically you have the authority right now to levy that tax, to
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levy any tax and to implement any program. You can do that right
today.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I'll send you the Florida statutes later
on.
MR. CORNELL: What's that?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I'll send you the Florida statutes later
on. I'm sorry, I took up too much of your time.
MR. CORNELL: That's all right. That's all right. No, it's a good
distinction to discuss.
We think that the people ought to have a chance to register their
opinion by virtue of a vote, and so we encourage you to do that. Thank
you very much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Patricia Forkan. She'll be
followed by Michael Seef.
MS. FORKAN: Good morning. My name is Patricia Forkan,
I'm a resident of District 1. And I want to thank Commissioner Fiala
for making it possible to have this time certain point. Because there
were so many people interested in it, it really makes it a much more
meaningful event.
I'm new to the area. l've been coming here for many years but
I've only recently moved in the last three and I've been very interested
in some of the environmental issues that have been started here.
And I only heard about Conservation Collier last year, and I
attended the workshop you all did and became much more interested
in what's the future, because I think it's very important, and the future
for what I'm calling the Naples brand. Naples has a look, a feel, and
it's an attraction for a lot of people, many people of a lot of means.
And how do we keep that brand? One of the ways is to put it --
put more of our green space into something like Conservation Collier.
Because we do see a lot of development, and that's fine. But on the
other hand we need to keep the very thing that brings people here.
And I for one was brought to Collier and to Naples over any other
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place in the country because of the amenities, the beauty and access to
wildlands. And. I want to have those somewhat in my neighborhood
and not out with the alligators. So that is one of the things that I found
really fascinating about this.
And also I agree with the previous speakers who have much more
experience in this. But it does seem to me that the voters would
support this. I don't know whether you can vote on it today or not, but
that would be fabulous if you could.
Reconstituting a committee I think needs to be -- or something
needs to be done to keep the committee. I think that you have 37, 27,
however many million, that's a lot of dollars. And there needs to be
somebody from the public looking at that and keeping it before the
public's eye.
So I think there are a number of things that should give you the
desire to go ahead and do something very proactive and positive with
this program.
I think that's probably all I need to say. But it sounds like you're
already moving in that direction. I appreciate the fact that you're
looking at what to do with this committee, not to just dump it, so that
is a really good thing. And I'm hoping that we can all come away as
very happy citizens from this meeting. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Your next speaker is Michael Seef.
He'll followed by Bonnie Michaels.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Go ahead and start the clock.
MR. MILLER: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I'm getting hungry.
MR. MILLER: As am I, sir.
MR. SEEF: Good early afternoon, Commissioners. Michael
Seef. I live in North Naples. I live in a small community called
Beachwalk, and I'm the community affairs chairman.
I want to start out briefly by giving a broader perspective. In
fact, let me put this on the viewer.
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MR. DURHAM: Can you also give a copy to the court reporter?
MR. SEEF: I don't have a -- can I do that later?
MR. DURHAM: Yes.
MR. SEEF: Okay. All right.
What I want to show here is something that is based on a
common number that seems to be floating around, and quite
understood, that something like 80 percent of Collier lands are in
preservation. And what you see before you is a list of the major state
and federal lands, plus private lands, plus Conservation Collier lands.
And that in fact if you look at the bottom line here, which is the
red circle on the lower right hand, that number totals up to 67 percent,
okay. So you can see the little pie chart and you can see roughly
two-thirds is state and federal lands, excluding Conservation Collier.
Conservation Collier, as you know, is just a little teeny tiny
percentage of the total.
Now, there's an issue with many of these lands. For instance, Big
Cypress Preserve. They're far away. We go there last Sunday, it's a
two and a half hour round trip. Cost about 10, $12.00 in gas. And a
lot of your constituents are not going to be interested in going to Big
Cypress or at least not going frequently. And that's one reason we
have Conservation Collier.
The same holds true for Facahatchee Strand, Picayune Stand
Forest. And by the way, the forest is managed for anything the forest
wants to be managed for, which is oil and gas exploration and drilling,
whether it's forestry or what have you.
Florida Panther National Wildlife Refuge, and the other ones that
I've underlined, Everglades National Park and Ten Thousand Isles.
Now, the next page, let me just put that up. The next page takes
out those properties that are so remote and basically hugely
inaccessible. The bottom line here is that 17 percent.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Sir, can you wrap it up, please.
MR. SEEF: Okay. I would urge you to support Conservation
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Collier in every way possible.
I also just want to mention subsequent to Commissioner Coyle's
comments about the interest rates and inflation rates being very much
unusual, I have to say that the City of Naples is going to a much
higher rate from those similar kinds of rates. So I think it's important
to keep that in mind as a source of revenue not only for the
maintenance, as you've been talking about, but also for possible
acquisition.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
MR. SEEF: Commissioner Hiller has suggested that there may
be times when this committee will look at expansions as well of some
sort or other. Thank you very much.
MR. MILLER: Your next --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Wait. Cherie', do you need a break?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I have a question.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Do you -- do we need a break?
THE COURT REPORTER: I can wait. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: You'll wait? Okay.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Very brief question.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Sure.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: How do you account for the
Eastern Lands stewardship area, the protected lands?
MR. SEEF: They're included in the non-public lands, 416,000
acres.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. But they are preserve.
You're considering them preserve lands or not?
MR. SEEF: I did not consider them as preserve.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That's why you're --
MR. SEEF: Because they're ag. lands.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: They're protected lands and they
will not have construction on them.
MR. SEEF: Well, we've talked about protecting 40,000 acres but
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not the reminder, which was going to be towns and whatnot.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, how were the 40,000 acres
included in your analysis?
MR. SEEF: They're also not included, as were the rest.
However, if you take out the 40,000 acres, you still have a pretty small
percentage.
And really, the point of this whole thing is that the urban areas
need to have -- with all the expansion that's going on, 30,000 units
going up here and there and everywhere, and we're talking about
cutting the program. We're talking about cutting it to shreds and not
investing in anything else.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I understand your point. I'm
sticking with my 80 percent, because there's so many things you
haven't included here at all. You just haven't included them.
MR. SEEF: Okay. I'm not sure what if they are. I'd be
interested to hear later.
MR. MILLER: Your next public speaker is Bonnie Michaels.
She'll be followed by Marisa Carrozzo.
MS. MICHAELS: Thank you so much for all your support on
this program.
I think if we look at this, if preservation is a priority, there are
many creative ways that we can figure out how to afford being able to
preserve land.
And I'm one of the citizens who did vote; I'm one of the 82
percent. And I think the public should be able to decide the future of
this.
In the last year, many years we've lost a lot of the committees
that Debbie Newell mentioned that were kind of environmental
committees. And now that development is booming there really aren't
a lot of programs to address the need for green space and the county's
sustainability program.
.A perfect example is the Opportunity Naples, which is a project
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going on right now. There were no questions on the environment on
the survey. And as far as I know now, there isn't anybody on the
steering committee that is looking at ways that the environment is
going to be impacted or part of this whole economic plan.
I'm just one of many who feel that sustainability is being
overlooked a little bit in lieu of development at all cost. As a citizen I
don't know find this good for Naples; preserving paradise, as we talk
it, and certainly even for economic vitality. Sustainability is really
important.
Please help to keep this program going, as well as thinking about
the future of 2016 so that we can let the voters decide on preserving
land. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Your next speaker is Marisa
Carrozzo. She'll be followed by Ellen Goetz.
MS. CARROZZO: Good afternoon, Commissioners. I'm
Marissa Carrozzo on behalf of The Conservancy of Southwest Florida.
We really appreciate the opportunity to speak to you this afternoon on
the future of Conservation Collier, and we also very much appreciate
the very constructive discussion that you've had today.
So one of the most important elements of the program to date has
been the Conservation Collier Land Acquisition Advisory Committee.
And it provides a sounding board for public input, as well as providing
the expertise of the committee members themselves.
So ensuring that the club can continue to meet or a renamed
simply Conservation Collier Advisory Committee to provide the
public oversight of the 37 million in the management fund vetting of
the public access amenities and land management we believe is
absolutely essential for the future success of this program.
In terms of the financial resources, The Conservancy absolutely
supports the idea of exploring alternative investment opportunities.
Commissioner Coyle suggested different years of treasury bonds, and
we believe that is certainly something that we hope that you will direct
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staff to explore further.
And we also want to stress that as of right now the financial
situation is not immediately dire. There is the 37 million in the
management fund, and looking at these potential opportunities for
further investment and prioritizing the capital improvements, we can
safeguard the future of the Conservation Collier lands and their
financial status.
The CCLAC and staff have been excellent stewards of
Conservation Collier's finances and lands. They have been adaptively
managing over the past several years to deal with the downturn in the
economy.
As people have mentioned before already, that we are looking to
a referendum in the future which will also help resolve some of the
questions of long-term funding for management and allow the
program to continue a more active acquisition program.
And we will hope that you as the Board will support a ballot
initiative to continue Conservation Collier's work to protect our
county's unique natural resources.
Finally, regarding the disposition of properties that was
mentioned in the executive summary, we support CCLAC's
recommendation that the Conservation Collier properties remain in
county ownership.
And moreover, the Shell Island property, which was mentioned
during staffs presentation, was a partnership opportunity between The
Conservancy and Conservation Collier and the county. And we
participated in that partnership with the understanding that the
property would remain in conservation status in perpetuity.
So finally, we just want to express our appreciation for all of
Conservation Collier's efforts with the county and that you will
maintain the CCLAC as an advisory board, explore the investment
opportunities and support a 2016 referendum in the future.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: How many more speakers do we
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have?
MR. MILLER: Three, sir.
MS. GOETZ: The most important one.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Yeah. Well, it's the same message.
Does anybody have any new messages on what --
MR. KRASOWSKI: I do.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay, great.
MR. MILLER: Ellin Goetz, followed by Ellie Krier.
MS. GOETZ: Yes, I'm Ellin Goetz. I am a resident of Collier
County for 30 years. As a landscape architect I own and operate a
small business in the City of Naples that depends on development.
Yet I became involved in Conservation Collier back in the 2000s,
because we recognize the need for balance.
And one of the things that makes Collier County so special is the
balance that we have, whether it's economic development, economic
diversity, natural resources, development and natural lands. And I
want to commend you today for this very healthy robust conversation.
I really appreciate the energy that was put into the looking at the
budgeting and looking at the income streams, and I really appreciate
Commissioner Hiller's comments about how it's important for the
public to have access to these lands.
I believe that continuing the committee as a management
committee is very valuable for that very point, and I want to thank you
very much, and I hope very much that -- who knows what the future
will bring, but we'll hope it brings another ballot issue. Thank you so
much.
MR. MILLER: Your next speaker is Ellie Krier. She'll be
followed by Bob Krasowski. He is your final speaker.
MS. KRIER: Good afternoon. For the record, I'm Ellie Krier,
and I actually registered as an individual today to provide support for
the continuation in whatever the appropriate iteration is for the
committee.
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But I will now identify myself at the executive director of the
land trust and provide you some clarity on the bridge.
On your recommendations, you'll see the recommendation which
says to consider removing planned expenditure. The Gordon River
Greenway in its entirety will have three bridges. You have already
built own one. The other -- the bridge number two from the airport to
the Conservation Collier land is designed and is getting ready to be
built.
The third bridge, which is in your Conservation Collier budget is
not your problem. You don't have to build it. We're not taking money
away that you have to get later. This is a bridge that will be built from
City of Naples land to Naples Airport Authority land. There is no
rational nexus from your Conservation Collier ordinance to allow you
to expend that money on that bridge.
I was in front of City Council last week where they pretty much
made it clear that I have to raise the money for that bridge, so -- and
we're on the way to doing that. So that's $645,800. It's nothing you
have to reconstitute later. It is money that is available to you, and it
does say in your executive summary the final portion of the Gordon
River Greenway. We had that parcel now down through a
combination of efforts to 297,000. So we sort of let that money ride
there, knowing that we needed to acquire this land. You do not need
to build that bridge. In fact you probably legally can't. And I wanted
to provide that clarification for you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING. Thank you.
MR. MILLER: Your final public speaker on this item is Bob
Krasowski.
MR. KRASOWSKI: Hello, I'm Bob Krasowski. Good afternoon,
Commissioners. I think I was joking a bit when I said I had something
new to add.
I do support, though I'll try to keep this real sort, Bill Poteet and
his letter that was in your agenda packet. And Commissioner Fiala's
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comments earlier on. And I think that the ideas of Commissioner
Coyle should be considered by the committee as you extend it and go
on with it.
And yes, we should have this put on the ballot and let the people
support it.
And I'll add one new thing and that is let's go to lunch.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I'll second that motion.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay, you'll second that? All right,
let's adjourn for lunch.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Wait, let's go ahead and vote on
this, because we have a motion on the table. We have a motion and a
second.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Do you want to table the motion?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, I think we should just get it
done.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: What was your motion?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: The motion was basically to
reconstitute -- not reconstitute but to continue the committee as a
management committee to address the management and the programs
of the preserve lands.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Does that include looking at a new
tax?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: No, it doesn't.
COMMISSIONER FIA',A: And that was my second.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: And that was Commissioner Fiala
second, and she supported you on that point.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: All right. Any discussion on the
motion?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, I have some. The staff has
made a whole bunch of--
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I know they have.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- recommendations.
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COMMISSIONER HILLER:: And I want to address that.
All of this stuff that's in here is addressed really through our
budget approval process. You know, reductions to personnel,
operating and amenity expenditures, that's all done through the
budget. We're not voting on that now. When you bring the budget
forward, you will propose what the staffing levels are, what the budget
ought to be. You know, we've discussed the capital
improvements, you know, we've made it clear that what was proposed
is necessary to make the lands usable. That doesn't have to be in the
motion because we're not making any changes.
The issue about the bridge is really not something we should be
talking about here today. We need more details on the land, on the
purchase price of the land, you know, on assurances that that bridge is
going to be built by the City of Naples, that we're not short a bridge. I
mean, there's a lot that has to go into that. We can't vote on that today;
you need to bring that back, you know, as a separate item.
We're certainly not going to -- you know, working with the Clerk
of Courts on investment strategy is what Mark has to do, so he will
come back with, you know, what the maximum, you know, return can
possibly be in terms of how we invest those monies.
You know, the -- I mean, all of this other stuff is standard county
business that staff does daily. And we don't have to direct you to do
what is your, you know, daily mandate.
So the only thing that I think that is before us today is the issue of
the committee, and that's what my motion reflects.
MR. OCHS: Mr. Chairman?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: My question really --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Who's first?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I was, because I had made the
statement --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: That's right.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- that we ought to include some of
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these things, and Commissioner Hiller said no we shouldn't
So I will be satisfied with that if you, County Manager, will tell
me that you're going to continue with all of these recommendations
here and get them done as a normal course of your responsibilities.
MR. OCHS: Well, sir, I don't believe with regard to directing the
Clerk on a car route for the investment of these funds that I'm in a
position of authority to do that The Board has an investment policy,
and if they want to direct the Clerk as the manager of that investment
to make a certain investment, thafs something that this Board needs to
direct. Mark can't direct it.
COMMISSIONER 'TILLER: Well, but Mark can -- what Mark
can do is work with the Clerk to see what can be done and —
MR. OCHS: We've already tried that, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- bring back -- and what did the
Clerk say?
MR. OCHS: He — I believe he didn't have an interest. We asked
him to be here to discuss that with the Board today —
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Could Mark —
MR. OCHS: Crystal may be able to represent -- we went to the
finance committee. But so far what's reflected in your report in terms
of the interest rate of return is what we've been told is going to —
COMMISSIONER HILLER: The legal limit.
MR. OCHS: No, not the legal limit. But the existing investment
practice by the Clerk's agency.
So if you wanted an alternative, then I think the Board needs to
direct that inasmuch as ifs your policy.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, I think what we need to do is
have a completely separate discussion on investment policy and what
are our legal limits with respect to that whether ifs as to this program
or any of the other, you know, reserves that we can invest over time
CHAIRMAN HENNING: That should be the recommendation
to the finance committee to bring back --
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COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: — some recommendations,
COMMISSIONER FULLER: Exactly. I mean, and that will be
— I want to do that as a separately motion independent of
Conservation Collier. Because that is a broader issue and we should
have two separate votes. Because one isn't really related to -- its
indirectly related to this agenda item but its an overall issue that we --
MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- should look at.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Is there any other discussion on the
motion?
MR. 00 IS: Yes, sir. Just the other point to Commissioner
Coyle's challenge to me is that with regard this question on the
Greenway Bridge and the potential acquisition of this remaining
parcel along the greenway. I mean, I can't move forward on that
unless i get some direction from the Board.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: All right. Then I will add to my
motion that you research this and bring us back all the information for
us to he able to evaluate what we want to do and how.
MR. OCHS: Fair enough. Thank you,
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And can we do that rather quickly?
Because that parcel --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: How much time do you need, Leo,
to
COMMISSIONER FIALA: At least the parcel.
CI LA.IRMAN HENNING: I'm not sure if the parcel -- the
indications I got from Ellie, that might be part of somebody else's
bailiwick. Doesn't necessarily need to be ours.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Lea staff go and figure that all out
and bring it hack. That's not, you know, really part of what we're
evaluating here. Its a nice —
MR. OCHS: As long as you tell me go ahead and do the
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evaluation, we can --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It's in my motion.
MR. OCHS: -- turn it around quickly.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It's in my motion.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Just one other item. Divesting
properties at this time. We should have a policy that we're not going
to consider divesting any of those properties at this time.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah, I think you're right. At this
time.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, why don't we --
COMMISSIONER NANCE: I personally think there's a number
of attendant issues that we need to discuss independently of this
motion. The motion is to continue -- my understanding is to
reconstitute the committee. But I think there are a num-- I think
Commissioner Coyle is right, there are a number of different issues
that I don't think we should just gloss over here without significant
discussion.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Right. And that's why these
should come back. Oh, the Clerk's here.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Maybe we could even discuss them
after lunch --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Sure.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- with the rest of the things. We
can get this one done --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I think there's a lot of stuff in here
that needs a lot more information for us to be able to vote on.
And staffs recommendations, you know, obviously they should
bring forward these items individually so we can take appropriate
action with the right level of information.
The two things really before us today was the evaluation of their
proforma so that we're informed and we know where we're going
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financially.
And the other issue is the management committee. I know that
staff has all this stuff in here, but that's not really --
MR. OCHS: We're happy to bring those all back individually.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah, I think you need to bring
them all back with the right level -- there's just -- this is like a, what do
you call it, kitchen sink or whatever you call it, you know, when you
throw everything in one thing.
So let's stay focused, you know, on really the most important
issues before us today and that is we know where we stand financially
now and we know that we want to continue the committee as a
management committee and have Jeff bring back an amendment to the
ordinance.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Mr. Clerk, how are you?
COMMISSIONER NANCE: Can you please restate your motion
at some point.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: I will. Go ahead. Jeff, do you
want to comment on that?
MR. KLATZKOW: Your original motion was for the County
Manager to do it. Do you want me to work with the County Manager?
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Yeah. And I don't care who does
it. But, I mean, legally the ordinance has to be amended and work
with the County Manager to get it done and then bring back all this
other stuff with the right level of backup to make sure we have an
opportunity to make informed decisions.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And let me ask, just is there a time
limitation with the availability of that land parcel? Or is that just --
MR. OCHS: I don't know, Commissioner. At this point in time I
don't know.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Well, you will act within the
reasonable time so that --
MR. OCHS: As quickly as I can.
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COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- we do not lose opportunities --
MR. OCHS: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- that are before us. So whatever
time it takes, it takes. If you think it can wait, you deal with
accordingly. I mean, we'll defer to your judgment on that.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Mr. Brock?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: It's all your fault if we lose it
COMMISSIONER HILLER: It is all --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Mr. Brock.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: -- my fault. I have broad
shoulders.
MR. BROCK: Thank you --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: These guys will keep going on.
MR. BROCK: -- Mr. Chairman. My name's Dwight Brock, Pm
the Clerk of the Circuit Court,
I just happened to be walking by the television and saw Mr. Ochs
make the following statement: We asked Mr. Brock to be here today
and he chose not to.
There is nobody asked me to be here today. Now, I just asked
Ms. Kinzel if anybody had asked her. I know nothing about this. I
know I did have a conversation with the budget office.
And let's talk about the interest for a moment. That's the only
thing that I've had a conversation with anybody about. 2833 provides
the Clerk as the party who makes the investments for the county. I
think we have clearly had that defined for us.
I have worked with the Board of County Commissioners to
develop an investment policy. That investment policy says we will use
the pool concept approach, okay. It further directs through policy
made by this Board where that money is supposed to go. It goes into
the general fund. If the Board of County Commissioners wishes to
employ that pool concept and allocate more interest to Conservation
Collier, there's absolutely nothing in the world.
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But I can assure you, we have some long-term investments in that
pool portfolio and we have some short-term investments in that pool
portfolio.
In an attempt to protect the taxpayers. I'm not quite sure what the
agenda is here. But, you know, you want me to stick money into some
risky long-term investment in this type of environment? I mean, do so
at your own peril. None of us know where interest rates are going,
except in all likelihood they're going up. And what's going to happen
when interest rates go up? You're going to lose principal.
So I'm not quite sure what the objective here is. But if you're
wanting to generate revenue for Conservation Collier, the simple
solution to that using the pool concept approach, which is exactly
what I told him, is to direct me to allocate more of the proceeds from
that investment pool to Conservation Collier. That's totally within
your discretion.
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Thank you very much, Clerk. We
appreciate your clarification of that.
So again, my first motion is to have the County Attorney work
with the County Manager to restate the ordinance to include the
continuation of the committee as a management advisory committee,
to look at the management of the preserve lands and the programming
on those preserve lands, and to -- and for the number of- the
frequency of meetings to be based on an as-need basis and where the
committee will come back, work with the County Manager and
present what, you know, they want to meet about and have the County
Manager approve it.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: My light is on, because I have a
question to ask the Clerk.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I thought your second motion to go to
lunch --
COMMISSIONER HILLER: Can we just -- •
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