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CAC Minutes 04/08/2004 RApril 8, 2004 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE COLLIER COUNTY COASTAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE Naples, Florida, April 8, 2004 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Coastal Advisory Committee in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 1:30 PM in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: Ron Pennington David Roellig John Arceri James Snediker Tony Pires Bedford Biles Graham Ginsberg John Sorey III William Kroeschell (Excused) ALSO PRESENT: Jack Wert, Tourism Director Maria Bemal, Tourism Dr. John Staiger, City of Naples Ron Hovell, Public Utilities NOTICE OF PUBLIC MEETING COASTAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEETING COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA THURSDAY, APRIL 8, 2004 1:30 p.m. Notice is hereby given that the Collier County Coastal Advisory Committee will hold a meeting on Thursday, April 8 at 1:30 p.m. in the Board of County Commissioners chambers, located on the third floor of the W. Harmon Turner Building, Collier County Government Center, 3301 E. Tamiami Trail, Naples. The agenda includes, but is not limited to, the following: I. CALL TO ORDER II. ROLL CALL III. CHANGES AND APPROVAL OF AGENDA IV. APPROVAL OF CAC MINUTES A. Approval of minutes of March 11, 2004 V. NEW BUSINESS A. Election of Chairman B. Attendance Policy for Advisory Committee Board Members C. Format of Minutes D. Authorized Uses of Tourist Taxes E. Sea Turtle Protection Plan Annual 2003 Report F. Marco Island Monitoring 2004 VI. OLD BUSINESS A. County / City of Naples Beach Renourishment Update 1. Schedule: discussion of progress and potential barriers to meeting a November 2004 construction start date COASTAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE April 8, 2004 Page 2 B. Hideaway Beach Renourishment Update 1. Public Access Proposal 2. Hideaway Beach major Renourishment - Permitting Work Order Amendment 3. Schedule: discussion of progress and potential barriers to meeting a November 2004 construction start date C. Update - Status of Federal Shore Line Protection Study D. Pressure Equalization Modules Possible Locations VII. ANNOUNCEMENTS VIII. AUDIENCE INPUT & DISCUSSION IX. COMMITTEE MEMBER DISCUSSION X. NEXT MEETING DATE/LOCATION A. May 13, 2004, BCC Board Room XI. ADJOURNMENT In Regard to the Public Meeting: All interested parties are invited to attend, and to register to speak and to submit their objections, if any, in writing, to the board/committee prior to the meeting if applicable. Collier County Ordinance No. 03-53, as amended, requires that all lobbyists shall, before engaging in any lobbying activities (including, but not limited to, addressing the Board of County Commissioners, an advisory board or quasi-judicial board), register with the Clerk to the Board at the Board Minutes and Records Department. If you are a person with a disability who needs any accommodation in order to participate in this proceeding, you are entitled, at no cost to you, to the provision of certain assistance. Please contact the Collier County Facilities Management Department located at 3301 East Tamiami Trail, Naples, FL 34112, (239) 774-8380; assisted listening devices for the hearing impaired are available in the County Commissioners' Office. For more information, call Maria Bernal at 213-2966. April 8, 2004 I. Meeting was called to order by Vice Chairman David Roellig at 1:30 PM. Il. Roll Call: Roll Call was taken with Mr. Kroeschell excused. A quorum was established. III. Changes & Approval of Agenda: Under New Business - Item G: Need for a County Attorney's attendance at CAC Meetings. Under New Business - - Item H. Vacancy on the CAC Committee Under X - Item B - Summer Schedule It was noted Mr. Biles and Mr. Kroeschell's terms expire in May 2004. Mr. Arceri moved to accept the Agenda as amended. Second by Mr. Ginsberg. Carried unanimously 7-0. (Mr. Pires arrived at 1:31 PM.) IV. Approval of CAC Minutes -March 11, 2004 Page 12 - Under Maura Krause's report: to do the turtle monitoring at Hideaway would incur "no additional cost." Page 6- The Florida Statutes quoted was 125.01.04. Mr. Arceri moved to accept the March 11, 2004 as amended. Second by Mr. Pennington. Carried unanimously 8-0. Mr. Roellig expressed his gratitude for the attendance by some of the Committee members at the Tourism Meeting. V. NEW BUSINESS: A. Election of Chairman: Mr. Sorey nominated Ron Pennington for Chairman. Second by Mr. Arceri. Hearing no other nominations from the floor, nominations were closed. It was a unanimous vote for Mr. Pennington for Chairman 8-0. Mr. Roellig is still the Vice Chairman. B. Attendance Policy for Advisory Committee Board Members: Mr. Pennington expressed his disconcert of Mr. Hovell being seated in the audience rather than at the table as in the past. 2 April 8, 2004 Mr. Hovell - Public Utilities Engineering Dept. - responded they have moved towards Administrative support through the Tourism office. As project management issues are addressed with the Committee, he or someone from his office will present them. All the new business, at the meeting, had nothing to do with projects. Mr. Pennington expressed his opinion of being a technical committee and felt the engineer should be seated at the table for his expertise information. Mr. Hovell stated he is no longer project manager on the projects and now supervises the project managers and they will be representing any of the particular project issues, with his support. Maria Bernal has been appointed as the Coastal Advisory Committee and staff liaison. There is always organizational tweaking. Jack Weft - Tourism Director - mentioned one of the goals is to bring all the Tourism Tax related issues under the Tourism Department. The 195 Fund was never under their direct control, it was through Public Utilities and Engineering Division. Mr. Hovel's time, under Administrative, has been taken away and is strictly engineering. Maria is doing all the agendas and the items that go to the TDC and BCC meetings - all under Tourism Department. They still need Ron's expertise, but he will be doing all the engineering projects. Mr. Pennington stated Mr. Hovell has all the history of the past projects etc. and historically most of their issues evolve around the beaches. The obvious changes taking place are not necessarily desirable. He asked the Committee if they felt Mr. Hovell should be their prime staff person to the Committee. Mr. Pires agreed because of the trusting and comfortable relationship they have developed with Mr. Hovell in the past. He would be in favor of a letter to the Board of County Commissioners and the County Manager, if appropriate, stating their support for the staff, but also the working relationship with Mr. Hovell. After a lengthy discussion on Mr. Hovell presenting technical projects within the CAC, and writing a letter to the County Manager, it was decided Mr. Pennington would meet with the County Manager and discuss their concerns first. **The reason for the Attendance at Meetings was to remind Committee Members the importance of attending meetings, excused and unexcused absences and understanding the requirements. Mr. Sorey mentioned an incident of a "no quorum" at a recent TDC meeting and having to reschedule the meeting and schedules. Mr. Arceri asked about being excused at meetings. April 8, 2004 Mr. Pennington stated the County Ordinance 86-41 Section A states - Attendance Requirement - Any Board Member shall be automatically removed if he or she is absent from two consecutive Board Meetings without a satisfactory excuse or if he or she is absent for more than ½ of the Boards meetings in a given fiscal year. Mr. Sorey responded that at the TDC meetings they are to call Mafia and let her know if a member will be in attendance or not. Everyone agreed with that procedure. Also noted a member will be deemed absent if not present at 75% of the meeting. C. Format of Minutes: Mr. Roellig mentioned Mr. Ginsberg and Mr. Pires brought up the issue. His understanding is that a transcript word for word is not required. Mr. Pires understood that it is not required, but felt it would be helpful even though costly. Technical discussions cannot always be detailed between committee members and the presenter if not verbatim. Mr. Wert reminded committee members the meetings are always taped and televised, which is verbatim and can be reviewed without the expense of verbatim minutes. It is also stated in each Agenda. Anyone that wishes to have the minutes verbatim can hire someone if they so desire. Mr. Pennington felt in the past they adopted Roberts Rules of Order - and according to Roberts Rules in handling minutes there are two options: 1) Containing most of the comments made during the course of a meeting, and 2) To only address action items. Motions made, seconded and the vote, and identifying those voting against. That is accepted in most cases and felt it is satisfactory. At one time he had been asked to do a review of a draft of the minutes and provide comments before finalization. He did not volunteer to do it again. They minimized the quantity and extent of the minutes primarily because of having a record of everything said on video and tape. Many people like to see their comments in print. Mr. Pires expressed his opinion in recognizing multiple ways of taking minutes, but merely addressing action items is diminishing and doesn't give the level of detail that is helpful for someone to understand the issues when viewing them on the website. He would like to have the minutes in the format of what they have now when they have a discussion. It is easier to communicate and pass the information onto others in a hard copy that is downloaded from the website. At a minimum the type of minutes they have now should be maintained. He 4 April8,2004 recognized the expense of a court reporter and felt that anything less than the type of minutes they have now would be a disservice to the community as a whole. Mr. Pennington felt the minutes of their past meeting were sufficient and an excellent job of putting them together. They have everyone's comments. Mr. Ginsberg stated he brought this issue to everyone's attention. At a past meeting he was a public speaker and the minutes only reflected a very short synopsis of his presentation. He noted if the usual person reading minutes was not in attendance, he would want to be assured that any public speakers opinions be put in the minutes as a legal reference. He also pointed out that it is difficult getting a tape; he has looked at verbatim minutes, which is very tedious, and wants a balance between the two - a slight deviation of Roberts Rule of Law. Not just verbatim, or opinion, but also all the information of the various speakers be noted. This will give the other Advisory Boards and BCC a better understanding of what is going on in the CAC meetings, in brief. Mr. Pennington agreed with Mr. Ginsberg when he stated "in brief." He asked if the minutes of the past meeting met the expectations of the Committee. The members agreed they were very complete. Mr. Ginsberg added, since the usual transcriptionist was not present at the meeting when giving his presentation, he would like to be assured that the minutes are of the caliber of last months meeting and could be her replacement if and when needed. Mr. Ginsberg summarized his own speech off the audiotape and would like the minutes amended as Old Business. They have already been approved and with the Clerk of Courts Office. It was suggested they could be filed as a memorandum of public record, or included as an exhibit with their present minutes as an alternative. It was decided to make them an exhibit or attachment to the present minutes. It was also noted they are Mr. Ginsberg's recollection of his statements because the members have not had the opportunity to view them. Mr. Weft also mentioned if any special or sub-committees meetings are held, there needs to be someone officially taking minutes. The Clerk of Courts notifies the appropriate people for that task. **In conclusion Mr. Pennington stated it is in agreement with everyone the minutes will be in the same detailed format as the past meeting, with his prior review. Dm Authorized Uses of Tourist Taxes: · Page 19 - County Ordinance - #4 - part of it reads: To finance beach park facilities or beach improvement, maintenance, renourishment, April 8, 2004 restoration, and erosion control, including shoreline protection, enhancement, cleanup, or restoration of inland lakes and rivers to which there is public access as those uses relate to the physical preservation of the beach, shoreline, or inland lake or river. In the County's Ordinance these words was included under the Category "A" Funds. Mr. Ginsberg stated it did not include Turtle Monitoring. He pointed out an opinion by the Attorney General's office about beach access and would like it submitted. Mr. Ginsberg will submit it to Maria for inclusion in their packet at next months meeting. Mr. Pires was intrigued with Mr. Ginsberg's comments in regards that monitoring is not an appropriate expenditure of TDC funds. Mr. Hovell responded he has a legal opinion stating that turtle monitoring is eligible for Tourist Tax funds because it is the requirement of the permit that allows beach renourishment. Otherwise the permit is violated and they do not get any future beach renourishment permits. It was noted any issues a member wishes on the Agenda in the future can be brought up under Members Comments and brought before the Committee at their next meeting. Mr. Pires suggested at a future meeting perhaps someone from the Collier County Attorney's Office can do a recap on the use of Tourist Taxes. Mr. Pennington pointed out - County Ordinance on Tourist Tax - Article 3, Division 1,2,3, and Section 126. Mr. Sorey moved the procedure for items on the Agendas be brought before the Committee first in which they will agree to be inserted for the following month. If a report is referred to, it will be made part of the packet. Second by Mr. Arceri. Mr. Pennington will also approve the Agenda before submittal. Carried unanimously 8-0. Mr. Pires expressed having someone from the County Attorneys Office address the Committee at the next meeting on the variations and uses of the Tourist Tax. E. Sea Turtle Protection Plan Annual 2003 Report: Maura Krause- Environmental Services Dept. Maps and her report were given each member. Some comments were as follows: · The Beach lighting program, the stranding and salvage program and the public awareness program are not in TDC funds. Funding comes from Fund 111, Community Development Budget, because it is part of the Land Development Code Amendments, Code Enforcement and Grants. 6 April 8, 2004 · Nesting was up with Vanderbilt Beach with the highest number of nests per mile with 45 nests and Marco the lowest with 10 nests per mile. Data showed turtles had a preference for upland sand. Highest hatching and emergence success. · 32,418 hatchlings made it to the Gulf of Mexico. · Accomplishment - FPL to change out 34 beach access lights at no cost to the County. · They had 17,000 disorientations, 78 strandings and 4,664 interactions with people on the beach. · DNR Monuments are spaced every 1,000 feet with Coastal Construction Control Line set by the State. In order for mapping they need to know where they are in reference to the DNR Monument. · False crawl is a non-nesting emergence. Cannot have a beach renourishment without sea turtle monitoring. It is a permit condition, in all the State and Federal Permits. They also maintain the beach dunes; remove exotics and beach compaction studies are also done. Detailed reports need to be filled out concerning many more projects not in the report. Question on what the schedule for renourishment is in relationship to the turtle nesting. Maura responded May 1 st to October 31 st is sea turtle season. Turtles can start nesting earlier - April 1 lth - and by the second week of October they are off the beach. Renourishment would be November 1st to April 15th. The State is looking toward April 1 st. Cannot renourish any part of the beach if there is no sea turtle nesting in a portion of the beach. Mr. Hovell mentioned each permit from the State and Federal Government has different dates and need to comply with each specific permit. Daily monitoring is required. Dr. Staiger mentioned there was a two-week extension at one time in an area where there had been no nesting activity as there was no beach for about three years. They worked from the May 1 to the 15th of May to finish the project. There is no assurance of an extension even if applied for. Question on the lower numbers on Marco but was noted they have gone up. In 1990 there were 30 nests and now 90 nests. Reasons could be the beach is very compact, no tilling on the beach and a lot of vehicle traffic. The ground water is close to the surface in which they will not nest and possibly the lights. Marco Island Monitoring 2004 - Ron Hovell · Funding approved for monitoring in 2004 - did not monitor in 2003. · Taylor Engineering proposal in packet · Work Order costs - $78,916 Mr. Snediker asked about studying Sand Dollar Island. 7 April8,2004 Mr. Hovell stated the report was based on historical survey data and the profile lines matched the historical data. There is no other reference monument to take a survey other than to establish a new monument or use different bearings. Mr. Pennington asked what the objective was doing the survey at this time. Mr. Hovell wasn't quite sure but had concerns with re-grading and the brown areas with the grasses on the north end of the island. Mr. Arceri moved to approve continuing to monitoring for 2004 on Marco Island for $78,916. Second by Mr. Sorey. Dr. Staiger mentioned there is a group called Coastal Data Acquisition. They set the CCCL monument system. They also get data generated from the surveys. They have been wrapping them around into the inlets for a better hold on the sand volume. The Monument system is set by the state. Motion carried unanimously 8-0. G. County Attorney at Meetings: Mr. Pires didn't feel it was necessary to have a County Attorney present at all their meetings. On an "as needed basis" would be sufficient. Mr. Pennington stated he would request a county attorney representative to address the issues related to use of tourist development tax funds at our May meeting. It was suggested a "Public Records and Sunshine" presentation could be given when there are new members on the Committee. Maria mentioned she sends the new members a welcome letter, and has ordered a video tape on the Sunshine workshop that will be included in the Welcome packet. H. Member Vacancy for CAC One applicant has applied - Mr. David Roellig. Mr. Pires moved to appoint Mr. David Roellig for another term to fill the vacancy for CAC. Second by Mr. Snediker. Carried unanimously 8-0. VI. OLD BUSINESS: Ao County/City of Naples Beach Renourishment Update - Ron Hovell Emailed update on Federal Permit Application Status · Monitoring turtles in the borrow area was discussed. · Has responded to letter for additional information. 8 April 8, 2004 When submitting permit application it is also submitted with a disc so they can post it to their website. Response is on the website. · Address is: www.dep.state.fl.us · Easement letters were sent out to beachfront property owners on February 10th. Sent the City theirs end of March. 174 have been sent by the County with 21 replies so far. · Dr. Staiger will get the City's out next week. 1. Schedule: discussion of progress & potential barriers to meeting a November 2004 construction start date. · Plan is to start construction November 1 st. Shouldn't be a problem. · RFP is scheduled to go out the next day. Stormwater outfalls were discussed. Having a public meeting within the city was discussed and need to pick out a date. Mr. Hovell felt the issues to address would be - what are they doing, why are they doing it, what are the next steps and to sign the easements. Dr. Staiger would like to get the easement letters mailed and then get a public meeting with the consultant in City Hall for an explanation of the project. He would like to provide a notary asking people who are going to be given the easement letters if they would like to have it notarized and filed right away. He is hoping to get them out next week. B. Hideaway Beach Renourishment Update: Mr. Arceri Public Access Proposal - Map handed out and referred to.· Pathway will begin at Spinnaker Road and end at the Beach Point · Pathway was approved by Hideaway Beach by 79% · Public street - has empty lots - would be suitable for parking and/or bathrooms. · Showed Tigertail Beach and Sand Dollar Island on map. · Pathway shown is shortest distance from a public street to a beach and the least environmental issues. · ½ mile fully eligible under the present policy as it is ½ mile from northern boundary line of a public park. But City not asking for renourishment of that beach. Not sure it is a swimming area. · Clam Pass - to walk from pathway - not always fully accessible. Suggested a bridge across the area. · Showed the area ofrenourishment being discussed. · Last swimming area on north shore. 9 April 8, 2004 · Coconut Island - major tourist area - but problem is island is almost gone - many trees removed. Environmental decision. · Bike racks talked about earlier, no need for parking or bathrooms. · Cost sharing by residents' project. · Residents forming a Taxing district. · Low use designation beach · Width of the pathway is approx. 15 feet. · Interlocal Agreement submitted to County for review - if TDC money is spent and pathway cannot be finished for any reason, the money would be refunded to the County. They want to start the project November 1st. In the agreement - if pathway is not opened up in a reasonable time period the money would be reimbursed to the TDC accounts from the Taxing District. Mr. Pires referred to the yellow area on the map and whether it is able to be permitted. He also asked where the funds would come from. Mr. Arceri responded the funds for the study is coming from the TDC funds. If environmentally approved they would ask permitting be from TDC funds also. There is no contingency concerning permitting in the agreement. Only contingency is that the pathway be built, open and available for public use. Mr. Pires asked about the land on Spinnaker Drive. Will it be donated - is it pathway or specific lot? Mr. Arceri mentioned he asked to meet with Mr. Mudd on the Interlocal Agreement but Mr. Mudd wanted to see what will happen at the BCC meeting on Tuesday first. The ultimate decision will be made then. Mr. Pires stated there were no provisions for bathroom facilities or parking. He also asked the distance from the demarcation point to Tigertail Beach. Mr. Arceri responded ¼ miles. Mr. Sorey felt they needed to send a letter to the County recommending serious consideration be given to acquiring the parking space. The reality is not many people will be riding their bicycles. He thought there was a Marco Ordinance precluding persons parking on the shoulder of one of the residential lots. Mr. Arceri responded that is not correct. People can park in the swale areas. The County had stated previously they would not pursue that property as it is not a high priority area for beach access. Mr. Pennington stated the problem is funding for purchasing the property. Mr. Ginsberg wondered why it is not being presented to Parks & Recreation if it is a public benefit. With the proposed Boardwalk at high tide, the water is about a foot deep and wondered if they plan on putting sand in that area for walking. 10 April 8, 2004 Another question he had was the renourishment area from the first T-Groin (NE) being ½ mile off the access point and who would be responsible for paying for that renourishment. Mr. Arceri mentioned they could do that part and be fully eligible for TDC funding but didn't think they would want to do it at this point. Maybe at a later time. He mentioned parts of the policy again. If they put bathrooms and parking in, it would not change the funding criteria. There would still be the first ½ mile within parking and bathrooms eligible for 100% funding and the rest for low-use funding. Mr. Ginsberg stated in his opinion for it to be eligible - for safe and convenient access there be parking and some facility available on the road and a bridge, along with sufficient sand for walking. The question before the Committee is: does the proposed area identified, provide the public access point from the public streets that are required in the policy. Mr. Pires was concerned about the boardwalk, or elevated walkway, of people meandering off a path. SPEAKERS David Sommers - General Manager Hideaway Beach - they did a preliminary investigation of the area in question. There is a fence line in the area and would attempt to parallel the fence line. It would be an elevated walkway. It is a 15 foot access area with the walkway being 8 to 10 feet wide. Cost estimates would depend upon the permitting process. It is not a navigable waterway. Mr. Pires addressed the permitting Agencies with the Critical Waterway Area. Also asked about emergency medical personnel with the walkway width. There are no cost estimates at this time and funding to be worked out with the Interlocal Agreement. Mr. Arceri discussed the access of Tigertail Beach and Sand Dollar Island with parking and a possible boardwalk. Mr. Ginsberg felt without parking, there isn't any purpose for a boardwalk in the location. There is plenty of parking at Tigertail and felt it gets a lot of use. Mr. Pires disagreed - but is more concerned of the cost. Mr. Pennington reiterated again if they consider an appropriate access point - public access from a public street to the beach in accordance with the funding policy. Mr. Pires felt they need a walkway with parking, drop off, turnaround circle or a way of access. He is hung up on the Association paying for it because of the benefits of the beach renourishment. He also recognizes the difficulty of permitting as a contingency. 11 April 8, 2004 The policy refers to an access point, does not require parking. Mr. Roellig moved that Hideaway meets the funding policy of one public access point from a public street. Second by Mr. Biles. Mr. Pires mentioned assuming the access point exists and meets the criteria - accumulative access point; he would be in favor of the motion. Mr. Ginsberg can't see a beach there - could walk down a narrow strip at low tide, so doesn't see a beach. Until there is a beach, he didn't feel they could discuss it - stated it is a river access. Mr. Sorey walked it and stated there is a beach there - will not be used much, but the policy and Interlocal agreement has been discussed and not buildable so if the funds would come back he would support the motion. Motion carried 7-1. Mr. Ginsberg voting "no." BREAK- 3:54 PM RECONVENED - 4:02 PM 2. Hideaway Beach major Renourishment - Permitting Work Order Amendment - Ron Hovell Humiston & Moore submitted a request for time and expense for the Request for Additional Information from the FDEP. Mr. Roellig moved to approve the request for the work order for $30,000. Second by Mr. Snediker. Carried unanimously 8-0. 3. Schedule: discussion of progress and potential barriers to meeting a November 2004 construction start date - Ron Hovell The response for the last request for additional information should be up in the next couple of working days. They will need to respond and are concerned about the permits from the State and Federal Government so they can start work in the fall. They have the funding and Interlocal agreement and easement issues. The process of easements needs to be started. Surveys had gone out and Hideaway thought it was all taken care of, when in fact; it is not as it is all subject to the lnterlocal agreement. Permits and easements are the big items and now asking for additional funding to respond to the request for Additional Information. C. Update - Status of Federal Shore Line Protection Study - Ron Hovell Received the congressional resolution. As soon as they received word the resolution was done, the Board chairman sent a letter to the Congressman's office to ask to sponsor a line item into the Army's budget orS100,000 to fund the feasibility study. Would be in the FY 2005 Budget. 12 April8,2004 D. Pressure Equalization Modules Possible Locations - Ron Hovell At the last meeting a presentation was given on Pressure Equalizing Modules and requested they review potential test areas. Beaches that have need are Barefoot, Clam Pass area and Marco South Beach north of Caxambas Pass. No experimental funds available. Mr. Pennington felt Barefoot Beach may be an ideal area. They are planning a third phase of trucking sand in and have high erosion on the south end of Wiggins Pass. If this would be done in place of trucking and would stabilize the beach, it would be worthwhile. Mr. Hovell mentioned they had not planned on trucking sand to Barefoot Beach; they had applied for a permit if needed. A public meeting with Humiston & Moore addressed approx. 55 people on the history of Wiggins Pass and discussed options for preventing continued erosion on the bay and peninsula sides and was asked to include the PEM. Mr. Pennington moved to propose Barefoot be the beach of choice for the Pressure Equalization Modules. Second by Mr. Arceri. Carried unanimously 8-0. VII. Announcements - None VIII. Audience Input & Discussion - None IX. Committee Member Discussion - Mr. Ginsberg would like to change the minutes on a discussion he had on November 13, 2003 concerning the depths of Hideaway (northern channel) to be up to 20 foot. He had been challenged by a member of Hideaway and would like to show, for the record, Humiston & Moore's survey of 4-14-98 showing depth contours of 20 foot in the channel and approx. 300 feet from the zero water line. Due to the discussion above, it has now been made part of the record. Mr. Ginsberg was concerned about the depth and safety. Mr. Ginsberg was also concerned about the timeframe of receiving their packets. · They are normally mailed out and received by Thursday or Friday before the meeting dates. · Mr. Hovell mentioned this is the busiest time of year with grants and budgets etc. · This month is not the normal timeframe. Using a courier was suggested and Mr. Sorey insisted on getting the information one week before the meeting date. · Some members had no problem. · Expense ofCourier was discussed. 13 April 8, 2004 · Distributed by police and faxing was mentioned. · In the near future they will receive electronic agendas. E-mails were discussed. Members have had many problems with e-mails with Maria's office and talked about possibly a virus problem. This is being looking into further with the technicians. The Website is another way of viewing the materials. Xe Next Meeting Date/Location A. May 13, 2004 - BCC Board Room - 1:30 PM B. Summer Schedule - No meeting in July. Meet in August to get updates on Beach Renourishment programs. Possibly the end of the month. Further discussion at May meeting. The Board of County Commissioners holds one meeting in July and then start regular schedule again in September. There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 4:39 PM. COASTAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE Chairman Ron Pennington 14 Correction of Minutes- Feb 12, 2004 Mr. Ginsberg showed photographs of Hideaway Beach mangroves and indicated that the mangroves had retained the soil. He indicated the distance to walk from Tigertail Beach public access to get to the renourished beach at Hideaway Beach. Mr. Ginsberg showed the renourished beach in front of private house and indicated that it took ½ hr to walk to this beach from Tigertail Beach public access point. He made reference to water depths of 3 foot next to mangroves prior to renourishment at this location. Mr. Ginsberg showed T-groins and made reference to a 'no trespassing' sign at this location. Pictures of Royal Marco showed erosion of 1 foot within 1.5 months and a steep drop-off to the waters edge. Mr. Ginsberg stated that mangroves protect the beaches. Cut mangroves were shown with eroded beach to emphasize the point. Mr. Ginsberg stated that the T-groins aren't effective in the river, which has a substantial flow rate. He indicated the minimal sand retained around these structures and their inefficiency of saving sand on the beach at Hideaway Beach. A CAC member stated that their engineers knew that. Mr. Ginsberg suggested that the Parks and Recreation be involved in the planning of beach access and that they were the best qualified to do that. Mr. Ginsberg stated that the pictures Mr. Hummiston presented, showed beach widths of Hideaway Beach, going back to 1969, stayed constant, without renourishment. Mr. Ginsberg stated that the beaches there would always erode back to their historic widths. Mr. Ginsberg asked why we are we are trying to increase the widths of this beach. Mr. Snediker objected to the time spent by Mr. Ginsberg. Mr. Snediker said, that this is basic, elementary engineering as far as the coastal engineers are concerned and that he would like to move on. Mr. Ginsberg showed pruned trees at Royal Marco and that this will affect erosion on the beach. Mr. Snedicker stated that the state issued a tree-pruning permit and Mr. Ginsberg should go to the state that issued the permit and that they have nothing to do with. ~,H3 T-GROIN #2 ~2 . 3 O~-'~ ~T-GROIN #1 %0,Ox,, N SCALE FEET 100 0 100 2OO " ~T-128 NOTE:All elevations shown are referenced to NGVD. POST CONSTRUCTION (10-97) CONTOURS ONSHORE SURVEYS CONDUCTED BY AGNOLI, BARBER AND BRUNDAGE (10-31-97) OFFSHORE SURVEYS CONDUCTED BY SEA SYSTEMS CORPORATION (10-31-97) HUMISTON & MOORE ENGINEERS C OASTA L ENGINEERING DESIGN MARCO ISLAND-HIDEAWAY BEACH T-GROIN, 6-YEAR POST CONSTRUCTION MONITORING FOR: COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA DATE: 12/14/98 I FILE: 97-CON-SPNT JOB FILE: 8002 IDATUM: NGVD 10 SCALE: 1" = 200' FIGURE: 6