BCC Minutes 04/05/2004 W (PUD Workshop #3)April5,2004
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE COLLIER
COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
WORKSHOP #3-PUD MONITORING
Naples, Florida, April 5, 2004
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Board of
County Commissioners PUD Monitoring Workshop in and for the County of
Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 AM in
WORKSHOP SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East
Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN:
Commissioner Donna Fiala
Commissioner Fred Coyle
Commissioner James Coletta
Commissioner Tom Henning
Commissioner Frank Halas
ALSO PRESENT: Jim Mudd, County Manager; Joe Schmitt, Community
Development Administrator; Maryann Devanas, Dept. of Zoning & Land
Dev. Review; Susan Murray, Planning; Marjorie Student, Assistant County
Attorney; Patrick White, Assistant County Attorney; Ed Kant,
Transportation Department; Norman Feder, Transportation Director; Barbara
Burgeson, Environmental Department.
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COLLIER COUNTY
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
WORKSHOP AGENDA
April 5, 2004
9:00 a.m.
Donna Fiala, Chairman, District 1
Fred W. Coyle, Vice-Chair, District 4
Frank Halas, Commissioner, District 2
Tom Henning, Commissioner, District 3
Jim Coletta, Commissioner, District 5
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON ANY AGENDA ITEM
MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO SPEAKING. SPEAKERS MUST REGISTER
WITH THE COUNTY MANAGER PRIOR TO THE PRESENTATION OF THE
AGENDA ITEM TO BE ADDRESSED.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 2003-53, AS AMENDED, REQUIRES
THAT ALL LOBBYISTS SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING
ACTIVITIES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO
THE BOARD AT THE BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
REQUESTS TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON SUBJECTS WHICH ARE NOT ON
THIS AGENDA MUST BE SUBMITTED IN WRITING WITH EXPLANATION
TO THE COUNTY MANAGER AT LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF
THE MEETING AND WILL BE HEARD UNDER "PUBLIC PETITIONS".
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD
WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO,
AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD
OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE
TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
ALL REGISTERED PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL RECEIVE' UP TO FIVE (5)
MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
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April 5, 2004
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY
ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING,
YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, TO THE PROVISION oF
CERTAIN ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY
FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT LOCATED AT 3301 EAST
TAMIAMI TRAIL, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112, (239) 774-8380; ASSISTED
LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN
THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS, OFFICE.
1. Pledge of Allegiance
Development Timeline Rights of PUDs
3. Adjourn
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April 5, 2004
April 5, 2004
PUD AUDIT MONITORING WORKSHOP #3
Commissioner Donna Fiala called the meeting to order at 9:05 AM for Workshop #3
on PUD Monitoring. Pledge of Allegiance was recited.
Joe Schmitt explained the workshop and introduced the staff persons. He would like an
answer to "when is a PUD being built out and when are the densities associated with
PUD's deemed to be fulfilled". Staffis looking for guidance.
They have done 75 of 334 PUD'S.
Maryann Devanas announced it is their first anniversary of the PUD Audit. The
following information was given per a power point presentation: · 76 PUD's inspected- 25% of original PUD's
· October 2002, BCC requested an audit of PUD's
· January 2003, assigned to Redevelopment
· April 2003, County Manager requested report on 50
June 2003, 25 were inspected
· November 2003, Total of 51 were done
· April 2004, Total of 76 done
· Determined which PUD's were incompliance with a data base and categorized
· Focus was expanded to legal controls -
· Looked at Affidavits, fines and legal avenues for commitment compliance
· Looked at reaching out to Homeowner Associations, primarily those about to
turnover. Developing a website and being proactive to meet with Associations.
· Accomplishments - established PUD inspectors, appointed a commitment
coordinator and developed the PUD website.
· Held a Presidents Day meeting with Homeowner Presidents. Had 60-70
participants. A binder handed out with information and another meeting to be
held in fall 2004.
· Advancements in Progress - Developing lighting standard, prepare annual traffic
report form, monitoring report and PUD folders and HOA turnover guidelines.
· Many PUD's came into compliance - 9 have been brought into compliance.
· Of the current 25 inspected, 9 are in compliance, 6 substantial compliance, 7 can
be brought into compliance and 3 are out of compliance.
· Issues they are facing for bringing into compliance are: Bike/Sidewalks, URO
issues, sidewalks not being 5 feet, non-permitted lake, and lawn encroachments
seaward of the CCSL.
Mr. Mudd discussed Glen Eagle with URO's (Upland Recreational Open space). Is this
a real preservation area, or just an area the Developer put a fancy name on; of something
he wants it to be? Need to be very careful because there is no definition for a URO in the
Land Development Code. Then another tract - could be a preserve area. When a
developer comes in with a new definition for something, be aware and very careful. It
may not be incompliance and need to ask what the word means. There is a lesson to be
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April5,2004
learned and has caused Homeowners Association problems. At turnover everyone is
trying to decide what the definition is.
Commissioner Henning also commented on what a URO is. A PUD spells out what a
preserve area is but what are URO's. He felt at the time the Commissioners then
understood it was open recreation space. It was a way for the developer to get around a
preserve area.
Commissioner Halas asked about Crystal Lakes with the Sidewalk status. Maryann
responded it was stated they were to comply with the Land Development Code at that
time. At that time it was 5 foot width and is only 3 or 4 feet now. Commissioner Halas
asked if they are then asking them to tear them up and do them over.
Joe Schmitt stated that is what they are looking for from the Commissioners. At what
point do they say yes or no - in most cases the developer has left and in most cases it is
the Homeowners Association.
Commissioner Halas wondered why they can't go back to the developer even though he
has left.
Joe Schmitt didn't know if they had any legal means to go back and pursue any action.
During the HOA meeting one of the items discussed was turnover and the unresolved,
unplanned, unforeseen and unknown issues.
Marjorie Student - Assistant County Attorney - responded they would have to look
into it further. The PUD document itself does state "any successors or assigns of the
development be bound by the commitments". If he sells it to someone else they are still
bound. She will look into it further.
Commissioner Henning stated it will be a touchy issue. Ifa community doesn't have a
sidewalk. Are they going to force the Homeowners Assn. to put one in? It may not be to
their liking or best interest. Preserves should to be maintained. Make sure the preserves
are clean, but an amenity to the community, the Board of Commissioners should give it
up. Just going to create more heartburn. He hopes they can bring it back for Board
action.
Commissioner Coyle asked Marjorie Student for a clarification on the legal obligation.
She had said the requirements were transferred and assumed by any subsequent
purchaser. She can't say everyone says that, but that is what the documents usually
require. She can do more research. If the HOA assumes it is legal for turnover, and if the
BCC had a legal way to get the person legally responsible for the problem they should.
Not necessarily the Homeowner. It may be a legal problem for them if they start to go
after people. Need a clarification.
Commissioner Coyle then said it sounded like the Homeowner is bound by the
Documents if it is turned over.
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Apd15,2004
Commissioner Fiala stated maybe they could put something in the LDC that says before
a Developer can turn over the ownership to the homeowners association it has to be
approved by staff to be incompliance. Doesn't solve past problems, but may solve future
problems so when a homeowners Assoc. takes over the responsibility it would be
incompliance.
Commissioner Halas - when the developer tums over to the HOA that they are
compliant to the letter of the law. He also stated he didn't mean the HOA were going to
be liable, what he was trying to convey, was if the original developer, even though he has
turned it over to the HOA he is the one that should be liable if he didn't live up to the
PUD documents. He is not after the HOA - it is the developer knowing he didn't
comply.
Commissioner Coletta agreed with the other Commissioners. Too many HOA are
trying to sue the developer after the fact. May have to take on, a case by case, basis.
Commissioner Halas talked about the sidewalk issue; Commissioner Coyle discussed
Commissioner Fiala's suggestion of the LDC. He also thought they should include it in
PUD's themselves because most HOA won't read or understand the LDC. Could have a
provision saying prior to turnover there would be a review to be signed off by County
staff.
Commissioner Henning would like to see this on a future agenda.
Maryann continued with her report.
She discussed the Team Recommendations and Tasks: · Inspect the PUD's over the next 3 months.
· Work to achieve compliance
· Complete noted tasks in progress
· Complete lighting and traffic form finished
· Data base available to the public for monitoring
· Continue to develop HOA with guidelines
· Zero out certain commitments.
Joe Schmitt discussed paying for the program. Last time he gave a suggestion, it wasn't
well received, so will look at another mechanism of a sur-charge on building permits, or
carry it as a burden under Fund 111. They could do an inspection with costs passed off
with developer and Homeowner. They do an inspection at build out - but could be 15-20
years. Do not have a dedicated person at the time other than Maryann.
Homeowners will still need to hire an attorney for the turnover process. But there is a
lack of knowledge of doing the various projects that need to be done. They are faced
with a lot of turnovers and are beyond County Staff's interest or issues. Many concerns
were brought up at the meeting they had with the HOA.
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April 5, 2004
Talked about the LDC, density, build out, land use and a special zoning legislature. He is
looking for guidance form the Commissioners.
Commissioner Halas talked about the bonds not being returned until all the necessary
refinements have been taken care of before turnover. Maybe some of the bond money
can be used to pay for staff. He asked for a clarification on the Annual Traffic Report.
Mr. Norman Feder -Transportation - under concurrency management they are
evaluating build out based on developments and the numbers to proceed forward to give
them a good balance in the checkbook for concurrency.
Commissioner Coyle would like to see an estimate of the budget to accomplish the task
they have just been discussing and instructing staff to do. There is a fundamental
obligation of the government that the PUD is in compliance. Not a Homeowner problem.
They are the ones that create the zoning district and approve the PUD. The County has
an obligation that the developers meet the requirements and not transfer that
responsibility to the Homeowners.
Marjorie Student continues to do her research but had some ideas as follows: · Deal with future PUD's - timeline for completion of development
· New PUD's as well as those rezone from PUD to PUD.
· Establish a reasonable timeline
· In LDC under PUD section for requirement
· Difficult situation would be the existing PUD's
· Develop process - some legal problems
· Concerns of due process
· Platted sub-division- "taking" issue
· DRI's - build out language
· Accomplish with another workshop to get people to come in voluntarily
· After completed evaluation - a number of PUD's come in to show number of
units
· Continues to work on the above.
Mr. Feder - PUD is a rezoning of land but not an approval for the development of that
land. Especially what has been done in checkbook concurrency in Transportation? He
described the process and explained until they come into final plat or plan and have
concurrency determination; they do not have the rights to develop a portion of or all of
the PUD. Has to pay impact. Discussed vesting and PUD's that are not vested. Also
talked about the build out and if not built out and account for capacity. A Planned Unit
Development (PUD) itself is not giving the development fights. Until there is a final plat
or plan and a concurrency determination, vesting of that right, they aren't able to move
forward. He talked about the commitment from the developer.
The developer should be responsible for closing out of the PUD's. Discussion followed
on the monitoring factor - the developer first and then the Property Owner. The property
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April5,2004
owner doesn't have the experience the developer has so they think everything is all
approved and it is not. The Homeowner gets hoodwinked concerning certain
responsibilities. As far as maintenance responsibilities to stay within Code is the
Homeowners Associations.
Commissioner Coyle mentioned they will bring back the issue of funding at a future
workshop. He discussed DRI's, being vested, density and legal claims for vesting. Need
to sort it all out to clean the records up.
More discussion followed on density.
Joe Sehmitt said they will bring these subjects back again in a workshop or Board
meeting, and have some guidance for compliance inspections and the requirements of the
developers. They will look at the legal aspects also.
Susan Murray asked if the Board would entertain the possibility of eliminating the PUD
Zoning Districts. There are other ways to allow the benefits that a PUD district provides
without locking themselves into PUD's that were adopted in the 70's that are no longer
appropriate for the way they want to develop today. The LDC is constantly changing
with time and old PUD's no longer appropriate. From administratively they have 340
PUD's which is like having 340 Zoning Districts. To administer them are extremely
complicated and staff intensive and a lot of differences of opinions.
Commissioner Halas said a study should be put together for the pros and cons and is
streamlining the portion of government.
Commissioner Coyle felt it was worth evaluating and would look at it. He thought they
solved the old PUD's with the sunsetting provisions.
Susan Murray responded they were able to meet the minimums for the sunsetting and as
long as they keep ahead of it they are a valid PUD. One example Joe said is the
developing of one tract in Pelican Bay. They have met the criteria and are still
developing. There may be some conflict of the language in the old PUD and the LDC.
Need to integrate the two together. Joe gave more examples of small PUD's with straight
zoning and going back with more changes and what the LDC language says etc. When
they have all the small PUD's, administratively they are finding more that meet the
requirements that they were not aware of from the start. So they have many
administrative burdens. Within the urban boundaries, he asked if the PUD's are the way
to go in regards to some of the smaller parcels.
Mr. Mudd mentioned it is tedious for staff and they have made a one year commitment
to check documents and whether they are in compliance. He said to be careful if they get
rid of all the PUD's.
SPEAKERS
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April 5, 2004
Floyd Chapin - Sapphire Lakes Master Board of Directors - full time resident -
introduced other officers in attendance. Has appeared previously in a workshop
concerning the PUD monitoring. He stated their situation has now been taken care of and
found they are incompliance. They have battled with different situations for 13 years
with the developer. As of Friday Maryann notified him they have been incompliance for
quite some time. They have been very tenacious in following through this process.
He felt the County needs a dedicated staff to work on the PUD monitoring problems. He
realized it may be a budgetary problem but they need an enforcement code for what they
have discussed in their workshop. They (Sapphire Lakes) and others would be willing to
volunteer to assist them with the monitoring, or any other situation they may be able to
help staff with. Help get others incompliance. Get out of the box as Commissioner Halas
mentioned and involve the Community.
He discussed Green Heron (Sapphire Lakes) and stated Blue Heron is the development
adjacent to them and didn't feel they were incompliance with many issues. Exotics were
discussed that the Homeowners Assn. had to absorb costs of $40,000. He gave an
example of a preserve area that was disturbed by the developer and was now told by the
Environmental Dept. that Sapphire Lakes has to get an Environmental Consultant to do a
Site Development Plan for the area. Didn't think they should be punished and pay for
something they wanted to develop back to its natural state as a preserve with native
plantings. Bureaucracy has to cease at some point and common sense take over.
Mr. Mudd mentioned they could go through the Extension Service for a Site
Development Plan.
Commissioner Henning stated they should be paying the Homeowners Assn. to plant
vegetation - why make it difficult. He asked why they are demanding something like that
when someone is trying to do a good thing in their community. Why are they deterring
the Homeowners when they are trying to do something good?
Barbara Burgeson - Environmental Services - stated when anyone comes in and
requests an enhancement for planning in preserved areas that they submit a plan to them
to review. No site improvement plan, no cost, no permit required. Make sure they are
native plantings and the appropriate vegetation and recommend they consider the soil
types, but don't require them to go out and do soil borings. They provide plant lists to
utilize and a free service in reviewing and make recommendations. They work with
them, no cost, no permit and opportunity for them to provide a planting scheme or plan
and work with the Homeowners Associations.
Mr. Chapin suggested she come out to Sapphire Lakes. They want to plant native
plantings and things that are going to enhance the County and their community.
Commissioner Henning asked about a site plan - Ms. Burgeson responded they do not
request a site plan, just a letter requesting what the person wants and where the preserve
is. Can be a hand drawing where the preserve is, nothing formal or a landscape architect
to submit it. Anyone from the Homeowners Assn. can submit it. No permit is required.
Steve Lenberger will work with the Homeowners Assn's.
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April 5, 2004
An arborist from the Extension Office will do a plan for the Homeowners of which is of
no cost.
Commissioner Fiala assumed that offer was not presented and suggested it is something
Ms. Burgesons office should do when someone calls to improve their property.
Commissioner Coletta suggested this is a good subject for the next Presidents meeting
so they understand what can be done to beautify the community. If the question came up
at this meeting, he was sure the other organizations have similar questions.
Bob Murray - Representing Condominium Association - the builder, Jacob Nagar,
chose to build three sets of units to drag it all out. They didn't have a turnover they had a
collapse. They had a process in which the builder caused his person to be his
representative in whom the person didn't make any information available or knowledge
of where to go at the time. They would have gone into receivership if Stock
Development wouldn't have acquired it. They are building as a unit owner. He is the
President of two Homeowners Assn. Many are ignorant of Florida law and not sure
about Condominium law. Attorneys are costly and asked the Commissioners to be
concerned for the process Homeowners need to address. If the County can make
information available for Homeowners to qualify where their builder is at, then they are
working proactively. They can then understand the implications. Rather than waiting
until it is too late.
Another problem is a builder that fails and continues to build under a new name. At least
three condominium associations have not succeeded with this particular builder and now
intending to build elsewhere. He is entitled to do that, but the public is also entitled to be
protected as much as possible. The welfare of individuals depends upon the safety net
also. If the Commissioners and/or staff can make information available to enable people
to know what they can do, they will do it on their own. He didn't feel the tax dollars for
doing this would be too significant.
Commissioner Henning questioned straight zoning versus PUD - and asked if staff is to
remove the ability to do PUD's in the future.
Susan Murray responded - no.
Commissioner Henning suggested if they want to do straight zoning to make it the cost
do straight zoning similar. Incentivize the process.
He stated Mr. Chapin's suggestion of assistance from the private sector to deal with the
PUD monitoring - could be called "Friends of Community Development".
Commissioner Halas stated to give staff some idea of streamlining PUD's so it isn't so
labor intensive for them in getting PUD's or straight zoning. He thought it was a great
idea of assistance from the private sector so they can pass their knowledge onto other
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April 5, 2004
Homeowner Groups that are starting to get involved and a wealth of information and
guidance.
There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was
adjourned by order of the Chair at 10:46 AM.
COLLIER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Chair ommissioner Donna Fiala
These' m~t~ :a~proved by the Board on
or as corrected .
q' ~"~' '~0~_ , as presented L//
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