CEB Minutes 09/25/2003 RSeptember 25, 2003
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD
Naples, Florida
September 25, 2003
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Code Enforcement Board
in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein,
met on this date at 9:05 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building"F"
of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the
following members present:
CHAIRMAN:
Clifford Flegal
Albert Doria
Sheri Barnett
Roberta Dusek
George Ponte
Christopher Ramsey
ALSO PRESENT:
Michelle Arnold, Code Enforcement Director
Jean Rawson, Attorney for the Board
Jennifer Belpedio, Assistant County Attorney
Shanelle Hilton, Code Enforcement Coordinator
Page 1
CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD OF COLLIER COUNTY~ FLORIDA
AGENDA
Date: September 25, 2003 at 9:00 o'clock a.m.
Location: 3301 E. Tamiami Tr., Naples, Florida, Collier County Gov~nment Center,
Administrative Bldg, 3rd Floor
NOTE: ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF
THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM
RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE
UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED. NEITHER COLLIER COUNTY NOR THE CODE ENFORCEMENT
BOARD SHALL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR PROVIDING THIS RECORD.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO
PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING, YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, TO THE PROVISION OF
CERTAIN ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY FACILITIES MANAGEMENT
DEPARTMENT LOCATED AT 3301 EAST TAMIAMI TRAIL, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112, (239) 774-8380;
ASSISTED LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN THE COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS. OFFICE.
1. ROLL CALL
2. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
3. APPROVAL OF MINUTES - August 28, 2003
4. PUBLIC HEARINGS
B. HEARINGS
CASE NO:
CASE ADDR:
OWNER:
INSPECTOR:
2003-036
790 12TM ST NE, NAPLES, FL
DIANA HALL
JEFF LETOURNEAU
VIOLATIONS:
FBC 104.5.1, PARAGRAPH 4, AS ADOPTED BY ORD 2002-01
PATIALLY CONSTRUCTED SINGLE FAMILY STRUCTURE
ABANDONDED AS PERMIT NO. 92-0010786 EXPIRED.
DEEMED
CASE NO:
CASE ADDR:
OWNER:
INSPECTOR:
2003-038
5657 JOSE MARTI DR., NAPLES, FLORIDA
AVISAI GONZALEZ
JEFF LETOURNEAU
VIOLATIONS:
ORD 91-102, AS AMENDED, SEC 2.7.6.1
MOBILE HOME ON SITE WITHOUT
INSPECTIONS
PROPER
BUILDING PERMITS AND
ORD 91-102, AS AMENDED, SEC 2.7.6.5
MOBILE HOME ON SITE WITHOUT
OCCUPANCY
OBTAINING
A CERTIFICATE OF
CASE NO:
CASE ADDR:
OWNER:
TENANT:
- INSPECTOR:
2003-028
10823 TAMIAMI TRAIL UNIT A, NAPLES, FL
GUY AND MELINDA FRACASSO
CHRISTOPHER CASSELL
SHAWN LUEDTKE
VIOLATIONS: ORD 91-102, AS AMENDED, SEC 1.5.6
9/18/2003
CASE NO:
CASE ADDR:
OWNER:
INSPECTOR:
VIOLATIONS:
UTILIZING DUMPSTER ENCLOSURE AS SEATING AREA CONTRARY TO THE
PERMISSIBLE USE.
ORD 91-102, AS AMENDED, SEC 2.7.6.1 AND SEC 2.7.6.5
DUMPSTER ENCLOSURE ERECTED BEHIND THE SHOPPING PLAZA WITHOUT
PROPER BUILDING PERMITS, INSPECTIONS AND CERTIFICATE OF
COMPLETION
OR.D 93-64, AS AMENDED, SEC 4
DUMPSTER ENCLOSURE WITH
RIGHT OF WAY
AN ENCHROACHMENT INTO THE COUNTY
2003-034
12323 UNION ROAD, PORT OF ISLANDS, FL
GOPAL MOTWANI
JEAN NADEU
ORD 91-102, AS AMENDED, SEC 2.7.6.1; 2.7.6.3; 2.7.6.5; 2.1.11; 2.2.8.2.1; 3.3.3; 3.3.9
AND 3.3.9.1, AND THE FLORIDA BUILDING CODE (FBC) 104.1.3.5; 104.6.2, AND
106.1.3 AS ADOPTED BY ORD 2002-01
STRUCTURAL, ELECTRICAL AND PLUMBING IMPROVEMENTS MADE
WITHOUT FIRST OBTAINING REQUIRED BUILDING PERMITS, INSPECTIONS
AND CERTIFICATE OF OCCUPANCY
ORD 91-102, AS AMENDED, SEC 1.5.6
LAND AND STRUCTURES NOT BEING USED IN ACCORDANCE WITH ZONING
DISTRICT
FBC I01.4.9.2, AS ADOPTED BY ORD 2002-01
STRUCTURAL, ELECTRICAL AND PLUMBING IMPROVEMENTS NOT BEING
PROPERLY MAINTAINED
FBC 103.9, AS ADOPTED BY ORD 2002~01
CONSTRUCTION CONTINUING AFTER STOP WORK ORDER WAS ISSUED
FBC 103.10.1, AS ADOPTED BY ORD 2002-01
PERMIT NO. 2003040559 ISSUED FOR REROOF OF AN EXISTING SHED WHICH
WAS A MISREPRESENTATION OF THE EXISTING CONDITIONS RESULTING IN
THE PERMIT BEING REVOKED BUT THE IMPROVEMENTS REMAIN
FBC 103.11.1, AS ADOPTED BY ORD 2002-01
ELECTRIC POWER SUPPLIED TO NOTED PROPERTY ILLEGAL WITHOUT
PERMITS OR INSPECTIONS CREATINGN A POTENTIAL SAFETY HAZARD AND
ALL OTHER IMPROVEMENTS INCLUDING NO SWIMMING POOL ENCLOSURES
AT MAIN STRUCTURE ARE CONSIDERED SAFETY HAZARDS
FBC 104.4.1.6, AS ADOPTED BY ORD 2002-01
STRUCTURAL, ELECTRICAL AND PLUMBING IMPROVEMENTS BEING DONE
WITHOUT A LICENSED CONTRACTOR
NEW BUSINESS
A. Request for Imposition of Fines/Liens
1. BCC vs. Haldeman Creek Enterprises, LLC
2. BCC vs. Wilma Britton
3. BCC vs. Wilma Britton
4. BCC vs. Carl and Linda Weber
CEB NO. 2003-023
CEB NO. 2003-014
CEB NO. 2003-015
CEB NO. 2003-029
9/18/2003
Be
Request for Reduction/Abatement of Fines
No request (as of the date this agenda was prepared)
Request to Forward to County Attorney's Office
1. BCC vs. Claude Martel
2. BCC vs. Claude Martel
3. BCC vs. Lorraine Burgress
4. BCC vs. Wayne Simpson
D. Motion/Request for Extension of Time
No requests (as of the date this agenda was prepared)
6. OLD BUSINESS
A. Affidavits of Compliance 1. BCC vs. Wilma Britton
2. BCC vs. Wilma Britton
3. BCC vs. Carl and Linda Weber
B. Affidavits of Non-Compliance 1. BCC vs. Haldeman Creek Enterprises, LLC
2. BCC vs. Lorraine Burgress
3. BCC vs. Wayne Simpson
7. REPORTS
1. Recent survey of other Counties regarding higher imposition of fines.
8. COMMENTS
9. NEXT MEETING DATE
October 23, 2003 in the Board Room
10. ADJOURN
CEB NO. 2003-001
CEB NO. 2003-002
CEB NO. 2003-016
CEB NO. 2001-085
CEB NO. 2003-014
CEB NO. 2003-015
CEB NO. 2003-029
CEB NO. 2003-023
CEB NO. 2003-016
CEB NO. 2001-085
Jennifer Belpedio
9/18/2003
September 25, 2003
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Please make note, any person who
decides to appeal a decision of this Board will need a report of the
proceedings pertaining thereto, and therefore may need to ensure that
a verbatim record of the proceedings is made, which record includes
the testimony and evidence upon which the appeal is to be based.
Neither Collier County nor the Code Enforcement Board shall be
responsible for providing this record.
If you are a person with a disability who needs any
accommodation in order to participate in this proceeding, you are
entitled, at no cost to you, to the provision of certain assistance.
Please contact the Collier County facilities management department
located at 3301 East Tamiami Trail, Naples. Phone number
239-774-8380. Assisted listening devices for the hearing impaired
are available in the County Commissioner's office. May I have roll call, please?
MS. HILTON: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. For the
record, Shanelle Hilton, CEB Coordinator.
Cliff Flegal.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Here.
MS. HILTON: Bobbie Dusek.
MS. DUSEK: Here.
MS. HILTON: George Ponte.
MR. PONTE: Here.
MS. HILTON: Gerald Lefebvre.
(No response.)
MS. HILTON: Sheri Barnett.
MS. BARNETT: Here.
MS. HILTON: Albert Doria.
MR. DORIA: Here.
MS. HILTON: Christopher Ramsey.
MR. RAMSEY: Here.
MS. HILTON:
Rona is out of town, and Gerald did call me and
Page 2
September 25, 2003
tell me that he may not be able to make it.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. We have four regular members.
present and two alternates.
The alternates will participate and will vote. If Gerald shows
up, we'll make a change to that.
May I have approval of our agenda? Are there any changes to
the agenda, additions, corrections?
MS. ARNOLD: For the record, Michelle Arnold, Code
Enforcement Director. Staff has no changes.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Thank you. I see none. I would
entertain a motion to accept the agenda as submitted.
MR. PONTE: So moved.
MS. BARNETT: Second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second to
accept the agenda as submitted. All those in favor signify by saying
aye.
MR. DORIA: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. RAMSEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
Approve all of our minutes from August 28th this year. Are
there any additions, corrections?
MS. DUSEK: I make a motion that we accept the minutes from
last month's meeting.
MR. PONTE: I'll second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second to
accept the minutes as submitted from last month's meeting. All those
in favor signify by saying aye.
Page 3
September 25, 2003
MR. DORIA: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. RAMSEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
We'll now open our public hearing. The first case is 2003-036.
MS. HILTON: This case was continued from last month.
Board of County Commissioners versus Diana Hall. CEB case
number 2003-036. We've previously provided the Board and
respondent with a packet of information we would like entered as
Exhibit A at this time.
MS. DUSEK: I make the motion that we accept the county's
Exhibit A.
MR. PONTE: Second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and second to
accept County Exhibit A. All those in favor signify by saying aye.
MR. DORIA: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. RAMSEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
MS. HILTON: I'd like to ask if the respondent is present. Let
the record show the respondent is not present and I did not receive
any faxes or any information from her. The alleged violation is a
section 104.5.1, paragraph four of ordinance 2002-01 of the Florida
Building Code.
Page 4
September 25, 2003
The description of the violation, observed a primary structure
that was originally permitted under Collier County permit number
92-0010786 and was reapplied for twice and has been deemed
abandoned. There were never any inspections scheduled, and the
structure never received a Certificate of Occupancy. The most recent
application expired on March 17, 1999. Location where violation
exists, 790 12th Street Northeast, Naples, Florida, more particularly
described as folio number 3926720009.
Name and address of owner in charge where location exists,
Diana Hall, 925 Southeast 43rd Street, apartment 39, Gainesville,
Florida 32641. Date violation first observed, March 24, 2003. Date
owner given notice of violation, March 25, 2003. Date on which
violation was to be corrected, April 7, 2003. Date of re-inspection
was this past week. As a result of the re-inspection, the violation
remains. At this time I'd like to turn the case over to the code
investigator, Jeff Letourneau, to present the case to the Board.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth and
nothing but the truth?
MR. LETOURNEAU: I do.
For the record, Jeff Letourneau, Collier County Code
Enforcement Investigator.
I want to correct one thing. It said I responded to an anonymous
complaint. It was actually a patrol case on March 24th. I noticed
this building right here looked like it had been a long time since
anybody had worked on it. So I checked the records and found that it
had been permitted back in '92, and Ms. Hall had re-upped the permit
a couple of times and had never had an inspection or got the
Certificate of occupancy.
The last permit that she pulled expired March 17, 1999, so it's
considered an abandoned structure, according to ordinance
2002-01104.5.1, paragraph 4.
Page 5
September 25, 2003
I sent a Notice of Violation to Ms. Hall. She called me right
after she got it, and stated she knew she was in violation and, you
know, if she could, could I give her some time to try to get maybe
some funds to help her out. Somebody, you know, maybe the SHIP
program could loan her some money so she could complete this
project.
So going by a few months she kept trying to get funds to help
her out, and I eventually called Wendy Cuff from the SHIP program
and she stated that she could not authorize her funds for this project.
So I turned the case over for the CEB and it was scheduled for last
month. Ms. Hall called and asked for an extension. She said that she
had a contractor that was probably willing to do the job, but since
then I haven't heard from Ms. Hall or the contractor. That brings us
up to date.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Jeff, she didn't advise you who this
contractor was, did she?
THE WITNESS: She actually talked to Shanelle but, I mean, I
never heard anything about what his name or anything.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay.
MR. PONTE: This place does not appear to be boarded up. It
seems to be wide open, as a matter of fact. Is that the case? MR. LETOURNEAU: It's wide open.
MR. PONTE: Is it in the area where there are -- I don't know --
do kids play, or homeless people, or are vagabonds in there getting
out of bad weather? What's going on?
MR. LETOURNEAU: I didn't notice any homeless people. I
did notice a little bit of graffiti on the inside of the house, so I'm sure
kids have been playing in there.
MR. PONTE: Any danger?
MR. LETOURNEAU: I don't think so.
MS. DUSEK: For her to begin the process now, she would have
to start from the very beginning. I mean, the application is --
Page 6
September 25, 2003
MR. LETOURNEAU: She would have to most likely get a new
engineer to do the drawings and confirm that what's done already is
going to meet today's standards, and that she'd have to go from there
with the re-app and new permit. She could probably use the same
plans as long as the structure was worthy of today's standards. MR. PONTE: How old is it?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Well, she started it in '92. I'm not really
sure what part was built when on the three permits, so. I would
imagine the slab was probably poured back in '92, and then after
that, I have no idea.
MR. PONTE: That would mean a lot of hurricane code
changes, wouldn't it?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Probably.
MS. DUSEK: In a case like this, this is just an informational
question that I'd like to have. If she does nothing and this is deemed
abandoned, what does the County do? I mean, I know we're going --
if we find her in violation, we will ask her to do certain things and if
she doesn't complete those, what does the County do? Do they step
in and secure the building or demolish it?
MS. ARNOLD: Well, let me answer that. It would dePend on
what this Board directs us to do.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Our Order will have to say that -- I
would think -- that after some period of time, and Jean, would I be
correct, if the lady fails to, if she just abandons it and we're that
concerned, we can order, or direct the County rather to do something.
MS. RAWSON: Correct.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Whether it's Board it up or tear it
down, I suspect boarding it up would probably be the easiest way to
keep people out of it, but that would have to be part of our order,
right?
MS. RAWSON: Yes, it would.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay.
Page 7
September 25, 2003
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. Any other questions for Jeff?.
Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Anyone else making comments under
the hearing portion? If not I'll close the public hearing portion of this
case and open it up to Board members. We first must decide if in
fact there is a violation.
MS. DUSEK: I make a motion that in the case of the Board of
County Commissioners versus Diana Hall that there is a violation in
this CEB case number 2003-036. The violation is of section 104.5.1,
paragraph four, of ordinance 2002-01 of the Florida Building Code.
The description of the violation, observed a primary structure that
was originally permitted under Collier County permit number
92-0010786, and was reapplied for twice and has been deemed
abandoned. There were never any inspections scheduled, and the
structure never received a Certificate of Occupancy. The most recent
application expired on March 17, 1999. MS. BARNETT: I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second that in
fact a violation does exist. Any further comment? If none, all those
in favor signify by saying aye.
MR. DORIA: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. RAMSEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed say nay.
(No response.)
Unanimous.
Next order of the Board.
MS. BARNETT: I just have a comment. I was looking at the
recommendations that the CEB had suggested, and if I recall, this
Page 8
September 25, 2003
lady is having some financial hardship, which is why the house is not
completed, and I'm wondering if we couldn't lessen their suggested
fine to maybe $75 a day rather than 100.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: My only comment, I guess would be, I
understand your concern.
MS. BARNETT: I think there's enough of a bite. We've
determined it's not necessarily a risk, a safety risk.
MS. DUSEK: I personally don't feel that 75 or $100 is going to
make any difference. This has been going on since 1999. I don't
think -- it doesn't matter what value amount we put on the fine. I
don't know that it would make any difference, in my opinion.
MS. BARNETT: Okay. I just was throwing it up as a --
MR. PONTE: Only that it's reflective of a pattern that we might
establish for seriousness of a violation. And because there is no
threat here to anyone, no danger, as far as the inspector is concerned,
I would think that the $100 might even be regarded as excessive, and
that $50 might be more realistic in this case.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: The only thing I caution you on is,
think of the structure, how long it's been there, that even though she
may be having a hardship, she had been trying to do something. If
we take the approach that we want to fine less because of, strictly
because of a hardship, basically, you set a precedent for the future
that somebody could walk in and say well, I have a hardship too.
Now you're setting up, your cases could be totally based on hardship
ahd not on the fact of we have a structure that has been abandoned,
that is in violation of certain land development code articles which is
where we should be putting the emphasis, not that there may be a
hardship.
MR. PONTE: That's a good point. And I don't make my
suggestion on the basis of it being a hardship case, but rather, it is the
severity of the violation. It isn't a danger. It has nothing to do with
hardship.
Page 9
September 25, 2003
MS. DUSEK: I think I would go along with you, George, on
that basis. However, if this had been a shorter period of time that this
violation had existed, I would be more inclined to agree with you and
Sheri but the fact that this has been going on, and then taking into
consideration what Cliff just said, there's probably some deterioration
in the structure.
MR. RAMSEY: I think also we're giving, I think it's 90 days as
a suggested time. In 90 days she's either going to make some
arrangements for completion or she's not going to do anything. So, I
mean, is $100 a day punitive? You know, it's been existing for a
long time. And if she does do something within 90 days, she can
always come back before the Board and ask for some relief under the
auspices that she is having a hardship or trying to do something, you
know, making efforts to comply with the Order.
Although I understand what you say, George, I think probably
giving the length of time that it's gone on, the fine may not be out of
line, given the facts.
MR. PONTE: But as the $100 accrues, that mounts up very
rapidly. And our solution then, if she elects to do nothing, is to put a
lien against the property with a huge big fine on it. And I don't know
what the property is worth. It just seems that it's counter productive
for the $100.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Having had a mini debate, is there
anyone willing to make a recommendation?
MS. DUSEK: I make a motion that the CEB order the
respondent to pay all operational costs incurred in the prosecution of
this case, abate all violations by submitting a complete and sufficient
building permit application, or the described structure or
improvement, or remove the structure within 90 days of this hearing,
or a fine of $100 per day be imposed for each day the violation
continues.
Respondent must also get the required inspections and obtain a
Page 10
September 25, 2003
Certificate of Occupancy within 90 days after obtaining the required
building permits, or a fine of $75 per day will be imposed for each
day the violation continues. The respondent must also notify the
Code Enforcement that the violation has been abated and to request
the inspector to come out and perform a site inspection.
MR. PONTE: I have a problem with part of the phrasing here
that says that the respondent must obtain a Certificate of Occupancy
within 90 days. Obtaining the Certificate of Occupancy -- or be
fined. Obtaining the Certificate of Occupancy is not something that's
totally in control of the respondent. Part of that, obtaining the
Certificate, will depend on the response time on the part of the
County to issue that Certificate and for an inspector to get to the site
and inspect the area in order to issue the Certificate. So I don't know
that we can really say, hey, if you don't have the Certificate of
OccUPancy in 90 days, it's going to cost you $100.
MS. DUSEK: Michelle? Do you have a comment?
MS. ARNOLD: I just want to note for the Board when
inspections are called in, they're generally done the next day.
Turnaround is no more than 48 hours.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Thank you. Very good. The one thing
I think-- I don't have any problem with the motion so far, but I think
we need to maybe add an item. And we talked before about if the
lady does nothing, do we want to direct the County to take some
action. I would think at the least we might direct the County, if the
respondent does nothing, we might direct the County to Board the
structure up to make it safe.
MR. PONTE: I think that's a good idea, because I think we can
assume that she is going to do nothing.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: At a minimum I think we could board
it up rather than tear it down, because maybe her only option would
be, if she can't do anything, maybe she could sell it, but, you know,
that's up to her. But I think to protect the citizens of the county, we
Page 11
September 25, 2003
should direct the County to Board it up if the lady takes no action.
MS. DUSEK: I'm just thinking out loud now. We're asking her
to remove the structure if she doesn't comply, and then we ask the
County to board it up if she doesn't comply.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Well, remember that to remove it is
going to cost her something. If she doesn't have any money to fix it,
she's not going to have any money to tear it down. So, I think at that
time maybe, Jean, would we be out of line? I know what was said
that you either get your permits or tear it down. If we said something
that like, I guess, at the end of the 90 day permit or removal process,
if respondent fails to comply, the County is directed to board the
structure up for safety sake. Would that permit the $100 fine to still
keep going?
MS. RAWSON: It would because that wouldn't make it come
into compliance, would it?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I mean, it wouldn't be in compliance,
it's just boarded up. It hasn't got any permits. It hasn't been torn
down. We just board it up so no one can get in.
MS. DUSEK: Are you saying in lieu of her taking --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I don't know the proper words. I'll need
Jean's help. What I'm looking for is, I'm just trying to eliminate the
availability of an abandoned piece of property for anybody to utilize.
MS. BARNETT: I think if you inserted it somewhere before
she had to tear it down, but, you know, if she has not started any
permit applications or contacted the County within 90 days, we could
direct the County to board it up.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Maybe better wording, Jean, would be
something like, at the end of the initial 90 day period, if the
respondent has taken no action, the County is directed to secure the
building by boarding it up, period. They just go out and board it up
and it still just sits there, it hasn't relieved her of any responsibility,
her 100 bucks still accrues, all we've done is say, gee, she hasn't done
Page 12
September 25, 2003
anything yet, and 90 days has passed, so now we want the County to
board it up. That's the best we can do. Rather than go out and board
it up today, let's give her a 90-day period to do something. If she
doesn't, then we'll board it up while she's trying to decide what else
to do. Would that be okay?
MS. RAWSON: That would be fine.
MS. DUSEK: Now that would eliminate that part that says
remove the structure.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: No, no. If she can still remove it in 90
days. But at the end of 90 days if she's done nothing, I think we
should just add an item that says -- it would be your next item. At
the end of this initial 90 day period, if respondent has failed to take
any action, the County is directed to secure the structure by boarding
it up, period. So all we're saying is, go out and board it up. MS. DUSEK: And a fine of $100 per day?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: No, that still goes in that first part.
This is a new item three, then a must request cause would be item
four and respondent must notify would be item five. How does that sound?
MS. DUSEK: That sounds all right. Then my next question is,
how long does -- how long does the County leave it boarded up, if it
gets to that point or do we just let that go into --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: It stays boarded up until we direct the
county attorney to foreclose on the property. It's boarded up forever,
unless the respondent does something, which she's allowed to do. It's
her property.
MS. ARNOLD: Can I just add for clarification that if the
County is to board up and secure the property, that the cost for doing
such would be assessed to the property owner?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We can make it part of that same
sentence.
MS. DUSEK: Would that not be considered all operational?
Page 13
September 25, 2003
MS. ARNOLD: Yes, but I just want to clarify and put it on the
record.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Operational is to get it to this point.
Once we issue the Order, that's not operational. That's something
different. Unless we direct that she reimburse the County, that cost
would be lost. Operational brings it to the hearing phase.
MS. DUSEK: So once they get to the hearing, all operational
costs stop?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Yes, that's the way I understand it.
MS. DUSEK: Is that correct?
MS. ARNOLD: Yeah, that's what we've done thus far.
MS. DUSEK: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: That's it. It's prosecution of the case,
and once you get here, you're done prosecuting. We've issued an
Order, so it's done. So we need to change that sentence to include.
MS. DUSEK: Okay. So Jean, did you understand what we're --
MS. RAWSON: I did.
MS. DUSEK: Do the board members understand what we've
done? We've just gone ahead and asked the county --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Add to that sentence, Jean, that the cost
for securing the building be reimbursed to the County by the
respondent.
MS. RAWSON: Correct. Subject to the respondent --
MS. BARNETT: Are you going to amend your motion?
MS. DUSEK: It has been amended, yes.
MR. PONTE: Will you amend the motion further to recognize
that the $100 is a bit excessive? It's $2,800 a month. Two thousand
eight hundred dollars a month for a not dangerous or overwhelming
infraction. I think it should be $50. I really do. I urge you to
consider that.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I would recommend we leave it at
$100. Right now it's 100 unless she wants to amend it.
Page 14
September 25, 2003
MS. DUSEK: It's 100 and 75 on the second part. And I'll leave
it as I have presented it, and then if it fails, then we'll address it.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Understand the second 75 doesn't kick
in unless she actually gets permits. So we're only dealing right now
with the first hundred. So I'm not willing to amend that number.
Do we hear a second on the existing amended motion? The
numbers are 100 and 75 respectfully, with the -- and there's one, two,
three, four, five items, as I remember, Jean.
MS. DUSEK: With the amended part being that the County will
secure the building by boarding it up and that the respondent will pay
the cost for doing so?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Yes, ma'am. Is there a second to that
motion?
MR. RAMSEY: Second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second. Any
further discussion? All those in favor signify by saying aye.
MR. DORIA: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. RAMSEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Those opposed?
MR. PONTE: Opposed.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. Five to one. Motion passes.
Thank you.
Back to public hearings on case number 2003-038.
MS. HILTON: Our second case is Board of County
Commissioners versus Avisai Gonzalez, A-V-I-S-A-I. CEB case
number 2003-038. We have previously provided the Board and the
respondent with a packet of information that we would like entered
as Exhibit A at this time.
Page 15
September 25, 2003
MS. DUSEK: I make the motion that we accept the County's
Exhibit A.
MR. PONTE: Second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and second to accept
the County's Exhibit A. All in favor signify by saying aye.
MR. DORIA: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. RAMSEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
MS. HILTON: Is the respondent present in the courtroom?
MR. GONZALEZ: Yes.
MS. HILTON: Let the record note that the respondent is
present in the courtroom.
The alleged violation is of sections 2.7.6.1 and 2.7.6.5 of
Ordinance number 91-102 as amended of the Collier County Land
Development Code. The description of the violation, a double wide
trailer placed, erected without first obtaining authorization of a
Collier County building permit and having all of the required
inspections and receiving the Certificate of Occupancy.
Location where violation exists, 5657 Jose Marti Drive, Naples,
Florida, more particularly described as folio number 00456120000.
Name and address of owner in charge where violation exists, Avisai
Gonzalez, 1701 Mabbette, M-A-B-B-E-T-T-E, Street, Apartment
16-103 Kissimmee, Florida.
Date violation first observed, January 23, 2003. Date owner
given notice of violation, February 10, 2003. Date in which violation
was to be corrected, February 24, 2003. Date of re-inspection,
September 12, 2003. Result of re-inspection, the violation remains.
Page 16
September 25, 2003
And at this time I would like to turn the case over to the Code
Investigator, Jeff Letourneau, to present the case to the Board.
MR. LETOURNEAU: On January 23rd, I responded to an
anonymous complaint about somebody building or placing a mobile
home on this agricultural property. I went out there and observed
that double wide mobile home, went back and researched that no
permits were ever pulled for the property. I mailed the Notice of
Violation to Mr. Gonzalez for Ordinance 91-102 section 2.7.6.1 and
2.7.6.5. He needed to get a permit to place that mobile home on the
property.
After a while, he didn't contact me, so I kept putting notices out
there on the mobile home. One time I went out there and I noticed it
was gone. The next day, Mr. Gonzalez called me and stated that he
was going to try to get a permit for the mobile home.
So over the next few months he went through the process of
trying to get a permit dealing with septic and everything, and he
found that he couldn't afford the whole thing, so he told me that he
was going to remove it. But then when he tried to remove it, he found
he didn't have the title for the trailer. And he had to wait, from the
person who sold him the trailer, to get the title. So I gave him a
couple months to do that. Nothing happened. He didn't get rid of it.
So I turned the case over for CEB.
On my re-inspection last week, I found that the trailer had burnt
to the ground, but was still in violation, since it was still on the
property. I contacted Mr. Gonzalez and told him he had a Board
meeting scheduled for today and he needed to remove the trailer. It
would be in his best interest if he tried to get it out of there before the
Board meeting. This is the first time I met him this morning.
MR. PONTE: Investigator, in the photo packet that we were
given on page 14, there seemed to be two trailers and a lot of debris.
Is it one mobile home or are we talking two?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Originally when I first went out there,
Page 17
September 25, 2003
there was a mobile home and a bunch of debris, but he removed
everything but the mobile home in time. MR. PONTE: Okay. Thanks.
MS. DUSEK: I have a question. Since it is in a different form
now, but it's still the trailer, so to speak, do the same violations exist?
MR. LETOURNEAU: I think it's going to be pretty much a
moot point because Mr. Gonzalez told me this morning that he has
removed the trailer. But I think, I mean, that's a determination
whether it's got value or not. It might be a litter case now, but I
would still say we could go ahead and say that it's still a trailer on the
property, because the frame is still viable. I mean, I would have went
out and checked it yesterday, but I've been on a vacation all week 'till
today. Normally I go out and check the violation the day before the
Board meeting, but I was on vacation yesterday. The last time I
checked it was the 12th.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I'm trying to think of a way to put the
question. Since this trailer has burnt and we now have a, I mean, the
frame may be there, but I suspect if it was on tires or something
they're probably gone, too. There's no way you can get a permit for
what's sitting there because it's a pile of junk?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Correct. I think now you probably have
to consider it litter basically. I mean, it's probably a whole new
ballgame now actually. The only reason we brought it before the
case is more for operational costs right now probably than anything.
I think if you get Mr. Gonzalez up here he's going to tell you that he
removed it.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. Any other questions for Jeff?.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Thank you, sir.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Mr. Gonzalez, you're turn, sir, if you
would come forward, please.
Page 18
September 25, 2003
MR. GONZALEZ: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Let's swear you in first. Then I have a
couple of questions before you tell us your side just for information
for the Board. The young lady will swear you in. Raise your right
hand, please.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth?
MR. GONZALEZ: I do.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: First, let me ask you, did you get a
package sent to you by the County? MR. GONZALEZ: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: They submitted it to the Board to
review. Do you have any objections to that? MR. GONZALEZ: No.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: You may proceed, sir.
MR. GONZALEZ: Well, like he says, I was sitting it down
there. It cost me $20,000 for the old trailer, so I put it up for sale,
and I build a the house. It's a lot of money for that. And I found out
they never send me the title. So I wait a couple of times over there. I
even hire a lawyer for that. Those people, they don't have address.
They have a P.O. Box. He tell me it's impossible to send a letter to a
P.O. Box. They didn't know if they are going to get it or not. I don't
want to spend $250 dollars for nothing.
So I keep calling the people, I go to the place that I bought the
trailer, and they tell me to go to North Fort Myers. They going to
meet me over there in a gas station to hand me the title. So that's
what I do. It was like the 26th of last month, so it was too late. I got
people that want to buy the trailer, and all the papers, and they going
to move it to another place. They want to move it. So they don't get
the title in time. So by the time I get the title, you know, the people,
they buy another trailer already.
Page 19
September 25, 2003
So I go find out over there they call me, my neighbor over there,
somebody was setting fire to the trailer. So, I go over there, and go
to the fire department close in the area, and they tell me they
received a call and they go over there and, you know, extinguish
what's left. They say somebody burnt a couple trailers in the area.
They looking for, they investigating that.
And last week I go in and clean the whole thing out. There's
nothing there. I take all the aluminum and whatever and, you know,
recycle, so the area is clean now.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: So what we're seeing on this picture,
all this is gone?
MR. GONZALEZ: It's gone. It's clean. It's burnt down to the
ground. It's like the roof so it's nothing there. I lost all the money,
and so I do nothing.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. But everything is gone?
MR. GONZALEZ: Clean. I should get some pictures, but he
told me, call me when you clean it so I can go by there. He was on
vacation, that's why.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: That's fine. I understand.
MR. GONZALEZ: I'm very sorry I did that mistake because
when I bought the property it was old, single trailer, so I give it
away. I buy that one, I said, well, I started looking for the company
to tie it down, you know. It was like a long process, so everything
happened.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. Any other questions for Mr.
Gonzalez?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Thank you, sir.
MR. GONZALEZ: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Yes, ma'am.
MS. BELPEDIO: Good morning, I'm Jennifer Belpedio. I'm an
Assistant County Attorney. I recognize that this Board had some
Page 20
September 25, 2003
concern about whether or not there was violation currently, because
now the mobile home is destructed and on the ground. I want this
Board to understand that when we prosecute our violations, we're
prosecuting the Notice of Violation. So what you can do, if you
believe the violation existed at the time we issued the NOV, you can
certainly make a finding of violation from that date on the NOV,
which I believe was in February, then certainly you can give
whatever period of time to correct with whatever fine amount, and if
it's true what this gentleman is saying that the debris is gone, the
mobile home is gone, then there's really nothing more for him to do,
and the investigator can conduct a site visit in the next couple of
days, and file an Affidavit of Compliance if that's the case. I hope
that helps you with your determination. If you have any questions,
certainly you can ask me.
MS. DUSEK: I have a question. It appears as though there was
a violation when the Notice of Violation was given. I don't know
whether this question is for you or for Jean. Do we have to cite a
violation, or can we go on testimony that was given today, that there
is no violation, and then just ask for operational cost?
MS. RAWSON: Well, the violation existed. It may be, and this
is not the first time we've had a case where the violation existed at
the time that the County investigated, then brought the case. As of
today's date, the violation may not exist anymore, so when we -- I
mean, you can make a finding that the violation existed on that day.
You can order him to come into compliance if he's already in
compliance. I mean, there's no fine that's ever going to happen.
MR. PONTE: Isn't there a second violation here, and that being
the one cited as in violation of 2.7.6.5 which suggests that work has
been done. And in the packet we received the photo of a hole that
was possibly a work for a septic tank, so there is, I think, a second
violation.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: In all honesty, looking at the picture, a
Page 21
September 25, 2003
hole dug in the dirt doesn't impress me as much as the trailer being
there.
MR. PONTE: But 2.7.6.5 is not any different than the trailer. It
says no site work removal or whatever.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I understand that point. Bobbie asked
the question about operational cost. You can't order someone to pay
operational cost unless you find them in violation of something. So
we'd have to find him in violation for the -- well, prior to this point
give him, you know, five days to correct it, which he says it's already
corrected. Jeff could run out and look and agree that it's been
corrected, so there would be no fine, but at the same time we could
order the operational cost to be paid. Jeff wants to say something.
MR. LETOURNEAU: If you could just do one week because I
go back on vacation. I just came in for -- just give it one week and
I'll be back.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: That's fine. We can accommodate that
since the gentleman already said he's corrected the problem. But we
would need to find him.. in violation of something to get the
operational cost down.
MR. PONTE: Well, what he's in violation of, unless the County
is stepping away from the violation is 2.7.6.5.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: The hole in the ground?
MR. PONTE: I'm sorry?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: The hole in the ground, is that what
you're talking about?
MR. PONTE: Whatever they cited.
MR. LETOURNEAU: All the violations are gone, including the
hole in the ground, except for the mobile home. That was the only
thing that was left. So all the other secondary violations --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: He had previously filled the hole in?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Right, everything is done.
MR. PONTE: Thank you.
Page 22
September 25, 2003
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL:
Mr. Gonzalez?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL:
portion and we can--
Any other questions for either Jeff or
If not, I'll close the public hearing
MS. BARNETT: I'll attempt to make a motion that I find that
there was a violation in the case of Board of County Commissioners,
Collier County versus -- I can't say the name. Avisai Gonzalez, CEB
number 2003-038. The violation is of section 2.7.6.1 and 2.7.6.5 of
ordinance number 91-102 as amended of the Collier County Land
Development Code.
The description of the violation at the time of the NOV was a
double wide trailer placed and erected without first obtaining the
authorization of a Collier County building permit and having all of
the required inspections and receiving the Certificate of Occupancy.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion that in fact the
violation did exist.
MS. DUSEK: I still have one question before we vote. And
this is going to be for you, Jeff. Sorry.
If you hadn't been on vacation and you
had been able to go out and a week ago see that this had all
been abated, would this still have come before the Board today?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Yes.
MS. DUSEK: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion on the floor that in
fact a violation did exist.
MR. PONTE: I will second that motion.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second. Any
further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL:
All those in favor signify by saying
aye.
Page 23
September 25, 2003
MR. DORIA: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. RAMSEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Before we get to the Order I want to
ask Jean a question. Jean, since we've had testimony from Mr.
Gonzalez that he in fact has cleared the property, resolved it, if we
were to order operational costs and rather than give him some time to
correct the violations, since he's already stated he corrected it, could
we reword it to that effect and somehow state that the respondent has
given testimony that the violation has been corrected and we want
him to notify the County within say seven days to come out and
inspect to see that the violation has actually been removed or
something?
MS. RAWSON: I always put in all of the Orders that the
respondent has the affirmative duty to notify the County when the
violation has been abated, so that will be a part of the Order. Yes, I
think we should put it in there because you don't have any
contradictory testimony to his that he's cleared it off.
So you have testimony that it's been cleared, and you don't have
any testimony from the County that it hasn't been cleared.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. What I guess I was looking for
is, do we need to, since we found a violation, do we need to state you
'have seven or ten days from today to correct the violation? MS. RAWSON: If it hasn't been corrected.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Yeah. Or a fine of X will be imposed.
I mean, again, having just heard testimony, I know we have nobody
to refute it, but at the same time I think we're obligated -- the
Page 24
September 25, 2003
gentleman under oath said it's done, it's done. I just feel -- I'm torn
about saying you have X days to correct something that we already
know doesn't exist. I was looking for another way to word it and I
don't know if there is another way and I'm asking you.
MS. RAWSON: You can word it in such a way that he has X
amount of time to -- I mean, he has I guess in fact notified the
County today that he's in compliance. But he has so many days to
notify the County to come out and check that he is in compliance.
And if he's not in compliance, then he has to come into compliance.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. Order of the Board.
MS. RAWSON: Is it only 2.7.6.5?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Well, I think 2.7.6.1 also applies.
MS. RAWSON: I just wanted to be sure that I heard your
motion correctly.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: There's two sections. At least that's
what I heard.
MS. BARNETT: I'll take a stab at it. I'd like to make a motion
that the CEB Order the respondent to pay all the operational costs
incurred in the prosecution of this case, and to notify the County that
all violations have been abated within ten days, so that the County
can go out and inspect the property. As long as all the violations
have been abated I do not deem that we need to put in a fine.
However, if the County finds that they have not been abated, a fine
of $25 a day will incur until the abatement is satisfied.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Is that sufficient, Jean?
MS. DUSEK: The only part of it is that he has already notified
the County.
MS. RAWSON: He has, today.
MS. DUSEK: Today.
MS. BARNETT: I just want to put it in a time frame so the
County can respond because of Mr. Letourneau being out on
vacation.
Page 25
September 25, 2003
MS. RAWSON: Well, what you could say is, he needs to come
into compliance by abating all violations if they have not been abated
within so many days. That will give the County time to go out and
inspect. And that will also protect you in case they are not all abated.
MS. BARNETT: Okay. I will amend my motion to say such.
MS. DUSEK: I wouldn't dare ask you to repeat that. I
understand what you said but -- okay.
My understanding is that we have said that he has notified the
County, that the County has so many days to go out to assure us that
this has been abated. If not, then he will have so many days. What,
ten days?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: It's ten days now for the County to go
out and check.
MS. DUSEK: All right. And then how many days -- in the
event that it's not abated, how many days are we giving him?
MS. BARNETT: I did not give him any days because he has
claimed that he had already abated it, so I said the $25 a day would
start.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: At the end of the ten days, if Jeff finds
that it's still there, the $25 just clicks until he cleans it up.
MS. DUSEK: So that would begin after ten days from this date?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Correct. We have a motion on the
floor. Is there a second to it? MR. DORIA: Second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Albert seconded it.
and a second. Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL:
aye.
We have a motion
All those in favor signify by saying
MR. DORIA: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
Page 26
September 25, 2003
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. RAMSEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Mr. Gonzalez, do you understand, sir?
MR. GONZALEZ: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Thank you, sir.
MR. GONZALEZ: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Back to public
2003-028.
MS. HILTON: Our
Commissioners versus
third case is
Guy and
hearings, case
Board of County
Melinda Fracasso,
I would like to ask
F-R-A-C-A-S-S-O. CEB case number 2003-028.
if the respondent is present in the courtroom. (No response.)
MS. HILTON: Let the record show the respondent is not
present in the courtroom. We have previously provided the Board
and the respondent with a packet of information we would like
entered as Exhibit A at this time.
MS. DUSEK: I make a motion that we accept the County's
Exhibit A.
MR. PONTE: Second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second to
accept the County's Exhibit A. All those in favor signify by saying
aye.
MR. DORIA: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. RAMSEY: Aye.
Page 27
September 25, 2003
MS. HILTON: The alleged violation is of sections 1.5.6, 2.7.6.1,
and 2.7.6.5 of Ordinance number 91-102 as amended of the Collier
County Land Development Code, and Section 4 of Ordinance
number 93-64.
The description of the violation, observed the following: One a
dumpster enclosure on the southwest comer of the property erected
behind the shopping plaza encroaching into the right of way without
building or right of way permits obtained.
Two using the permitted dumpster enclosure on the left south
side of the plaza for outside seating of restaurant. Location where
violation exists, 10823 Tamiami Trail North, Naples, Florida, more
particularly described as folio number 62410760004. Name and
address of owner in charge where violation exists, Guy and Melinda
Fracasso, 750 Southern Pines Drive, Naples, Florida. Date violation
first observed, November 20, 2002. Date owner given notice of
violation, November 21, 2002, by certified mail, return receipt
requested, which was returned unclaimed and on July 2, 2003 by
certified mail, return receipt requested, regular US mail, and posting
of the property in the Courthouse.
Date on which violation was to be corrected, December 21,
2002 and July 30, 2003. Date of re-inspection was this past week.
And result of re-inspection is the violation remains.
And at this time, I would like to mm the case over to the
supervisor -- to the code enforcement supervisor, Shawn Luedtke to
present the case to the board.
MR. LUEDTKE: Good morning. For the record, Shawn
Luedtke.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony that you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth?
MR. LUEDTKE: I do.
On November 20, 2002 I responded to the location of 10823
Page 28
September 25, 2003
North Tamiami Trail about a dumpster that was encroaching into the
Collier County right of way. Upon my arrival, I observed a
three-sided structure encroaching into the right of way by at least five
foot. No permits were obtained. It's in the southwest comer of a
shopping center behind the shopping center. No permits have been
obtained on that.
I made several attempts by posting business card, and a Notice
of Violation. I sent a Notice of Violation to the property owner and
never got any response.
On July 2nd of 2003 I sent an amended Notice of Violation
because we were going to process it for a Board hearing and posted
the property a second time. I did get a call from Mr. Fracasso on the
phone and explained exactly what he needed to do. He needed to get
a permit for the enclosure or he had to remove it from the site.
I did a re-check two months later on September 12th, and the
violation remained. No permits have been applied for, so we
processed it for a CEB hearing. I did speak with the Planning
Department last week, and Mr. Fracasso has since had a meeting with
the Planning Department to amend his site plan to correct this
violation, along with some parking violations that he has. He had an
architect come in and had a pre-app meeting. So he just started last
week to abate this violation.
Basically what has happened is this is the enclosure that he is
supposed to have that was approved originally for the dumpster. It is
located on the left side of a restaurant in that shopping center. The
restaurant is using it for outside seating. And they placed the
dumpster directly behind that at the back of the property.
So with the amended SIP, their site development plan that
they're going to be doing, they're going to be rearranging the parking
lot and moving the dumpster back into the main shopping center.
The problem we're having is it's encroaching into the right of
way, and the garbage truck has to go across this day care property to
Page 29
September 25, 2003
empty the dumpster weekly, so it is a problem.
MR. PONTE: Just help me a little bit. I'm having difficulty
understanding the photographs. Is the table and chairs, or are the
table and chairs where that dumpster is located now, I mean, that
green dumpster or is it in that little alcove?
MR. LUEDTKE: Right here is where it was originally
approved to be, the dumpster. They moved the dumpster and built
this unpermitted three-sided enclosure, which is what you see now.
MR. PONTE: I see.
MR. LUEDTKE: Then they converted the old place into a
seating area..
MR. PONTE: Got you.
MS. BARNETT: And it's in the right of way?
MR. LUEDTKE: That's correct.
MS. BARNETT: So there's no way it would be permitted?
MR. LUEDTKE: No, ma'am, not without a variance.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Out of curiosity, Shawn, if this little
gray enclosure and pad that it's sitting on is in the right of way, I
assume these six-foot tall shrubs are also in the right of way?
MR. LUEDTKE: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. Any further questions for
Shawn?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Thank you, sir.
MR. LUEDTKE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Anyone else to present anything to the
Board? If not, we'll close the public hearing section and the Board
will discuss it.
MS. DUSEK: I make a motion that in the case of the Board of
County Commissioners versus Guy and Melinda Fracasso, in the
case of CEB number 2003-028, that there is a violation. The
violation is of sections 1.5.6, 2.7.6.1, and 2.7.6.5 of Ordinance
Page 30
September 25, 2003
number 91-102 as amended as the Collier County Land Development
Code and Section 4 of Ordinance 93-64.
The description of the violation, a dumpster enclosed, southwest
comer of the property erected behind the above noted shopping plaza
encroaching into the right of way without building or right of way
permits obtained. Using the permitted dumpster enclosure for
outside seating of a restaurant.
MS. BARNETT: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second that in
fact a violation does exist. Any further discussion? (No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Hearing none all those in favor signify
by saying aye.
MR. DORIA: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. RAMSEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Order of the board. Before we do that,
Michelle, I'd like to ask you a question. Since Shawn has stated that
the gentleman has started his process, I just want to make sure, is the
90-day period for this, I guess revised SDP is what he's asking for, is
that sufficient time?
MS. ARNOLD: I think it would be a good start, and if he needs
to get additional time because of circumstances outside of his control,
he can come back to us and request an extension and we'll bring it to
the Board.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay.
MS. DUSEK: Well, I'll make a motion that the CEB order the
Page 31
September 25, 2003
respondent to pay all operational costs incurred in the prosecution of
this case, submit a complete and sufficient, I guess it's a revised site
development plan for all improvements, or remove said structure
within 90 days from the date of this hearing, or a fine of $100 per day
will be imposed for each day the violation continues.
Upon obtaining the revised SDP approval, obtain all required
building permits for desired structure improvements within 30 days,
or a fine of $100 per day will be imposed for each day the violation
continues.
After that he must get all required inspections to be performed,
and obtain Certificates of Completion within 30 days after obtaining
the required permits, or a fine of $100 per day will be imposed for
each day the violation continues. The respondent must notify Code
Enforcement that the violations have been abated, and to request the
investigator to come out and perform the site inspections.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I'd like to maybe ask you to modify it a
little. Let me ask Jean a question first.
Our authority is up to 250 per violation. Following the
recommendation of the Board, if Bobbie's motion goes forward right
now, I see $300 at various stages. I'm going to ask Bobbie to amend
her motion to item two, where she says submit a complete and
sufficient revised site development plan. I would say that that is a
violation of section four of the Land Development Code as I read it.
So that's one violation, as we have many paragraphs called out.
She then went on to say, after obtaining the revised SDP to get
building permits, I would like her to revise that to say, due to the
violation of section 2.7.6.5, because as I read it, it's a violation of that
section.
Then where she asks to call for inspections to be performed
within 30 days or $100, I'm going to ask her to revise it because that's
a violation of 2.7.6.1 as I read the Land Development Code. So that's
three separate violations, which gives us the authority to do the $100
Page 32
September 25, 2003
or up to 250 per violation.
Am I on the right track, Jean?
MS. RAWSON: You are. Are you asking her to amend the
amount?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: No. I'm going to ask her to include in
her description of the Order that -- like item two where she says
submit complete and sufficient revise I would say under violation of
section four of Ordinance 93-64, respondent shall submit blah, blah,
blah or $100.
MS. DUSEK: I understand what you're saying. And I have a
question for Jean. Is it necessary to state in this motion each of those
violations since we've already stated that they are in violation?
MS. RAWSON: In determining how you want them to come
into compliance in order to determine the fine, I think that Mr. Flegal
is suggesting that you put them all separate so that we show that
there are three separate violations.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: And that does away with any chance
of an appeal because we went over the $250 limit.
MS. DUSEK: I realized that when I was reading that.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: That happened once. I'm looking for
ways that we can be specific so that doesn't happen again.
MS. DUSEK: Okay. I just thought since it had already been
stated --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: It didn't work before, that's why I
thought we should do it a different way.
The only other item I think we might want to add, if you would,
is that we order the respondent to immediately cause his tenant to
cease utilizing the area for anything other than a dumpster as
enclosure as permitted. Right now he's using a dumpster permitted
item for seating at a restaurant. I think we should order him to cease
that. Otherwise he's still using a permitted item for something that's
not permitted. He's using someplace you put a garbage dumpster for
Page 33
September 25, 2003
people to sit and have dinner. I think we should order him to cease
that until he gets his revised SDP.
MS. BARNETT: I have a comment. I agree with you on that,
but I think it needs to go a step further because the dumpster, where
it's currently being used, is the problem, and it's encroaching on other
peoples' properties in order to be emptied. So I think they need to
quit using that site, because that is also an unpermitted area.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Looking at the size of it, I don't think
it's going to fit where his permitted site is, but where else he can put
it, I don't know. I was just wanting to get -- I didn't think of that
part, so it's a good item, to get the patrons out of something that's not
permitted for restaurant use.
MS. BARNETT: If we're doing one, we need to do both.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: That's a great idea.
MS. DUSEK: Now, Shawn, let me ask you a question.
MR. LUEDTKE: Yes, ma'am.
MS. DUSEK: If he gets this revised site development plan, do
you think that this would allow him to do what he's doing right now.
MR. LUEDTKE: By keeping the dumpster where it's located?
No.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: You said, Shawn, that he was working
on putting it somewhere else, correct?
MR. LUEDTKE: That's correct. He's going to re-configure the
parking spaces and have it so it's like a horseshoe instead of where
you have two lanes to pull in. Then he's going to put the dumpster
between the parking areas.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay.
MS. DUSEK: So what you're suggesting is that we order him to
remove the dumpster from its present location and also to cease any
activity in the enclosed original place for the dumpster?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We want him to cause his tenant to
cease utilizing the permitted site for restaurant use and to relocate the
Page 34
September 25, 2003
dumpster from the unpermitted site to somewhere else on his
property.
I guess in doing that, Jean, are we safe when we order him to
put the dumpster somewhere else, even though wherever else he puts
it isn't going to be, quote, a permitted location under the County? It's
either going to have to go back in that cubbyhole or nowhere, right?
MS. RAWSON: Right.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Which just based on the size I saw, it's
not going to fit.
MS. BARNETT: They can probably order a different size.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: He's going to have to get a much
smaller dumpster. So I guess we would want to reword it that way.
Like Respondent shall immediately cause tenant to cease utilizing the
area for anything other than a dumpster enclosure as permitted,
remove the dumpster from its current unpermitted location to the
required permitted location, and then size is his problem.
MS. DUSEK: Sounds good to me, what you just said. And
we'll include those violations by the statute of the ordinance.
MR. PONTE: What you're suggesting, if I am following all of
this, is that the actual violations, each of those three, will carry a
separate fine. And so that in the -- following the recommendation or
the fining procedure, we're going to list each of those separately and
each fine separately?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Yes.
Bobbie has amended her motion, so do I hear a second?
MS. BARNETT: Second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second. Any
further discussion.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All those in favor signify by saying
aye.
MR. DORIA: Aye.
Page 35
September 25, 2003
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. RAMSEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Jean, I think we have six items or
seven items. Six items.
MS. RAWSON: Well, yes, you have six plus, you know, I'll put
in a few more.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Whatever else you do, naturally.
MS. RAWSON: I think there's six.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: That's what I had come up with. The
operational costs is one, the revised plan is two under section four,
the permits is three under 2765, inspections is four under 2761,
notifying code enforcement that they've all been abated is five, and
then we added to cease and desist and get his dumpster back in place
would be six.
MR. PONTE: Mr. Chairman. I just make an observation here.
If we're going to, in the future, isolate and be very specific about the
· violations and come up with separate fines so that they are not all
accrued and we don't run the risk of overfining, just as we have in
this case, then is it possible for the staff to, when they see this
coming up, to, in their recommendations, tie them together rather
than say okay, we find them in violation of and have a string of
citations.
In the recommendation rather than one, two, three, four, five,
actually cite the specific violation, specific ordinance so that when
we are trying to craft it here and grabbing at words out of air, we are
at least all focused on the same page and know what we're talking
about. If we were to go back and try to redo that here, it becomes
Page 36
September 25, 2003
very difficult.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I think it's very doable. It's something
that happened, and Michelle and I have not had a chance to talk
about, because the packet having not been submitted to us as
evidence, I'm hard pressed to call her in advance and say can you
revise this and submit --
MR. PONTE: No, no. I don't mean revise it.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Yes, in the future she can, but she and
I haven't had a chance to discuss these types of changes.
MR. PONTE: That's because I just had the idea.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I know.
Let's move along because we have another case. Back to public
hearing.
Let's take ten minutes.
(A recess was taken.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Call the board back to order, please.
Next public hearing, case 2003-034.
MS. HILTON: It's board of County Commissioners versus
Gopal, and that's G-O-P-A-L, Motwani, M-O-T-W-A-N-I, CEB case
number 2003-034. At this time I would like to ask -- I know the
respondent is here, but I'd like to ask if the respondent is present in
the courtroom?
MR. MOTWANI: Yes.
MS. HILTON: Let the record show that the respondent is
present in the courtroom. We have previously provided the board
and the respondent with a packet of information that we'd like
entered as Exhibit A at this time.
MS. DUSEK: I make the motion that we accept the County's
Exhibit A.
MR. PONTE: Second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and second to
accept. All in favor, signify by saying aye.
Page 37
September 25, 2003
MR. DORIA: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. RAMSEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Sir, you could have a seat because
we're going to let the County go first and then we'll call you up.
MS. HILTON: The alleged violation is of sections 2.7.6.1;
2.7.6.3; 2.7.6.5; 1.5.6, 2.1.11; 2.2.8.2.1; 3.3.3; 3.3.9; and 3.3.9, of
Ordinance Number 91-102, as amended, of the Collier County Land
Development Code, and sections 101.4.9.2, 103.9, 103.10.1,
103.11.1, 104.1.3.5, 104.4.1.6, 104.6.2, and 106.1.3 of Ordinance
Number 2002-01, of the Florida Building Code.
The description of the violation: One structural, electrical, and
plumbing improvements made without first obtaining authorization
of a Collier County building permit and having all of the required
inspections and receiving the Certificate of Occupancy.
Two, all construction activity completed without first obtaining
the required Collier County planning review and approval for all
same site improvements in Site Development Plan.
Three, electric power supplied to noted property illegally
without inspection causing potential safety hazards.
Four, permit number 2003040559 issued for the re-roof of an
existing shed which was a misrepresentation of the existing
conditions, resulting in the permit being revoked, but the
improvements remain.
Five, no swimming pool enclosures at main structure as required
by the Florida Building Code.
Six, both noted buildings are being occupied without first
obtaining a Collier County Certificate of Occupancy.
Location where violations exists, 12323 Union Road, Port of
Page 38
September 25, 2003
Islands, Florida, more particularly described as folio number
1058920500. See the attached legal description. Name and address
of owner in charge where the violation exist is Gopal Motwani, 1158
Peregrine Way, and that's P-E-R-E-G-R-I-N-E, Weston, Florida.
Date violation first observed, April 30, 2003. Date owner given
Notice of Violation, April 30, 2003, by personal service. Date in
which violations were to be corrected, May 15, 2003. Date of
re-inspection was this week. Results of in re-inspections, the
violation remains.
And at this time I would like to mm the case over to the code
enforcement supervisor, Shawn Luedtke, to present the case to the
Board.
MS. DUSEK: Before you do that, Shanelle, there was just one
part, and I'm sure it was just an error that you didn't realize. You
said the first date of the violation was April 30th and it was April
3rd. Just for the record.
MS. HILTON: Okay.
MR. LUEDTKE: I just met with Mr. Motwani outside. He's
willing to stipulate to all the violations that they did have occurred in
the past. He's corrected the majority of them. He had permits issued
this morning to cover all the building permit aspect of fire hazards,
electrical, plumbing, the whole nine yards. He does have a '98 site
development plan. The only thing the County would be asking is
that he follow through on the permit that was issued this morning.
And that he come into compliance with his '98 site development plan.
Mr. Motwani does not have any problems with that, if you want to
speak with him.
MS. BARNETT: I have one question. This is continued from
last month, I believe. There was a question as to whether or not the
pool was safely enclosed.
MR. LUEDTKE: It is safely enclosed. I did a site visit two days
ago, and they do have a fence around it at this time.
Page 39
September 25, 2003
MS. DUSEK:
electrical and plumbing permits?
MR. LUEDTKE: That's correct, ma'am.
MR. PONTE: Are there still, you know,
there no trespassing signs are still in place.
MR.
MR.
MR.
MS.
MR.
it at all.
MR.
MR.
MR.
now that,
done, but
Shawn, are you saying that he has the structural,
is it still posted are
LUEDTKE: Yes, sir, they're still on site.
PONTE: And it's vacant?
LUEDTKE: It is not occupied, that's correct.
BARNETT: Is it secure, front and back?
LUEDTKE: Yes. I wasn't able to gain access interiorally
PONTE: It's secured, I mean it's locked?
LUEDTKE: That's correct.
PONTE: Are there any safety hazards existing out there
I mean, I understand the electrical work and all that will be
existing right now?
MS. DUSEK: I
re-roof which was --
MR. LUEDTKE:
MR. LUEDTKE: Not to my knowledge.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any other questions for Shawn?
do, yes. The permit that was issued for the
MS.
MR.
MS.
MR.
Revoked.
DUSEK: It was revoked?
LUEDTKE: Is that the one you're talking about?
DUSEK: Yes.
LUEDTKE: Yes, that one was revoked and the permit
that was pulled this morning does cover that structure along with
other items, the electrical and plumbing.
MS. DUSEK: And the electric power that was supplied illegally
to the property?
MR. LETOURNEAU: That was disconnected and has since
been restored legally to the property.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any other questions for Shawn?
Page 40
September 25, 2003
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Thank you, sir.
Mr. Motwani. You need to be sworn in.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you are about to give will be the troth, the whole troth, and
nothing but the truth?
MR. MOTWANI: I do.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Let me ask you a question or two first,
sir. Did you receive a package from the county? A lot of
information in the mail.
MR. MOTWANI: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Do you have any objections to them
giving it to us?
MR. MOTWANI: No.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All right. Proceed, please.
MR. MOTWANI: I'm sorry I was late this morning because I
was going to another area and they called. Then I found out the
meeting was in this place. Not that I was late, I left my house at
6:00.
About the property which was closed. I have been going to city
and county officials about the planning and zoning approval around
December the 17th. Only thing left was to get the fire marshal to
okay the building, because it was old building. I did not get the letter
finally in writing from the Capri fire department until September the
18th, that what it was they were looking for. Unless I knew what
they were looking for, I could not submit all the drawings to the
county officials.
So right after that, since that day I have been going every day to
the officials trying to submit the rest of the drawings to see exactly
what I'm exactly planning to do. So they were submitted finally
yesterday.
And coming back to illegal power supply, there was never
Page 41
September 25, 2003
illegal power supply. Power has been on since last March, which is
about 18 months ago. There was a little shed that I made, that shed
which took the power. And that was only for people having Coke and
Pepsi.
But, anyway, I accept Shawn's recommendation. Yes, I'm in
violation of everything they can say. I agree to blame, yes. I did
make a little mistake, but now I've filed all the paperwork necessary
to improve the site, to do what they want me to do.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Anybody have any questions for Mr.
Motwani?
MS. DUSEK: I guess my general question is perhaps directed
back to Shawn. In the description of the violation that has been
given to us, I know at one point that all of these, that he was in
violation, but now are you saying that all these violations are being
corrected or have been corrected.
MR. LUEDTKE: That's correct. As long as he gets a CO on
the permit that was issued this morning, that would cover all the
electrical, plumbing, the building permits basically, and he follows
through on his site development plan, yeah, he would be in
compliance.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Again, any questions for Mr.
Motwani?
MS. BARNETT: Have you done any other developments or
things like that in Florida other than this particular site?
MR. MOTWANI: In what sense? This is first development.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I think that was her question, if this
was your first time, sir.
Any other questions?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Thank you, sir. You may sit down.
MR. MOTWANI: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Anyone else have anything for the
Page 42
September 25, 2003
board? If not the public hearing section will be closed.
Since Mr. Motwani has gotten a permit this morning, this is
similar to the other case, you can find him guilty of the violations
because they did exist. And what he must do now is basically
comply with the permit. Maybe the only thing we don't know is,
some time period for him to do that, which Shawn or Michelle may
be able to help us out.
MR. PONTE: Mr. Chairman, could we, in light of these sudden
changes, ask the County what their new recommendation is, because
certainly the recommendation that we have before us doesn't any
longer apply.
MS. DUSEK: Let's find him in violation first.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: First, he was in fact in violation of
everything they submitted to us. MR. PONTE: Correct.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Now as to a recommendation currently,
that's why I wanted to know the time period since he's got a new
permit.
MS. ARNOLD: I asked Mr. Motwani out in the hall how much
time he thought he would need to get all the remodeling done and
comply with the site development plan, and he indicated to me 90
days would be sufficient.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay.
MS. BARNETT: I'll go ahead and make a motion that we find,
the board of County Commissioners, Collier County versus Gopal
Motwani, CEB case number 2003-034 in violation. The violations of
sections 2.7.6.1, 2.7.6.3, 2.7.6.5, 1.5.6, 2.1.11, 2.2.8.2.1, 3.3.3, 3.3.9,
and 3.3.9 of Ordinance number 91-102, as amended, in the Collier
County Land Development Code, and sections 101.4.9.2, 103.9,
103.10.1, 103.11.1, 104.1.3.5, 104.4.1.6, 104.6.2, and 106.1.3 of
Ordinance number 2002-01 of the Florida Building Code.
The descriptions of the violations were the structural, electrical,
Page 43
September 25, 2003
and plumbing improvements made without first obtaining
authorization of a Collier County building permit and having all the
required inspections and receiving the Certificates of Occupancy. All
construction activity completed without first obtaining the required
Collier County planning review and approval for all same site
improvements and site development plan.
Three, the electrical power supplied to the noted property
illegally without inspections, causing potential safety hazard.
Four, permit number 2003-040559 issued for the re-roofing of
an existing shed, which was in misrepresentation of the existing
conditions, resulting in the permit being revoked, but the
improvements remain.
Five, no swimming pool enclosures at main structure, as
required by the Florida Building Code.
Six, both noted buildings are being occupied without first
obtaining Collier County Certificate of Occupancy.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Just one correction in the section
violations. The second, 3.3.9, it should be point one. MS. BARNETT: So noted.
MS. DUSEK: And just one other verb change, instead of is in
violation, was in violation.
MS. BARNETT: Okay.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL:
Motwani --
Can we have a motion that Mr.
MR. PONTE: Just a thought here. He still is in violation?
MS. DUSEK: Well, the inspector has testified that he is.
MR. PONTE: He stipulated that he agrees to all of the
violations, but nothing has really been corrected yet. He has gone for
the permit. He doesn't have it yet. So he's still in violation.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: He is still in violation. He has
obtained a permit, but he hasn't complied with the permit. So he is
still in violation.
Page 44
September 25, 2003
MS. DUSEK: I read it differently. When I asked Shawn about
the violations, he said that he does have the building permits for all
of these, that the electrical power is all taken care of, so.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: He hasn't had all of his inspections and
everything else, which he is still in violation. He hasn't gotten the
CO. So he is still in violation of all of them. Until he gets inspected
and a CO, he's violation. Is that correct, Shawn? MR. LUEDTKE: Yes, sir, that is correct.
MS. BARNETT: I'm going to leave my motion as is.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: So we have a motion that a violation
in fact does exist. Is there a second to that? MR. PONTE: I'll second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second that
the violations do exist at this point. Any further discussion? (No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All those in favor signify by saying
aye.
MR. DORIA: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. RAMSEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
MR. MOTWANI: I have --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Not now, sir, we have closed the
public hearing.
Order of the board. Now, as George has asked before, since we
have testimony from both the County and the respondent that he has
obtained his permits, does the County have a new recommendation
for us rather than the one that they submitted, knowing that a lot of
Page 45
September 25, 2003
things have been brought current, other than the inspection part of it.
MS. ARNOLD: That they comply with their permit, including
inspections and Certificate of Completion or Occupancy, whichever
is applicable, as well as complying with the previously approved site
development plan within 90 days would be our recommendation.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: And if they fail to do that?
MS. ARNOLD: If they fail to do that, the $100 would be
sufficient.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: With all the violations that exist,
you're satisfied with that?
MS. ARNOLD: Yes.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Did every member of the board hear
that?
MS. DUSEK: Yes. She, I think stated that they have to follow
through with the required inspections and certificate of occupancy.
They already have their permits is my understanding, so they just
need to do the inspections and the CO and follow through with the
site development plan; is that correct?
MS. ARNOLD: Part of what the problem was is they were
occupying prematurely the structure without having modified it as
well. So, we don't want any -- we don't want any occupancy until
we're sure that they comply with their building permit.
MS. BARNETT: Michelle, they were also doing renovations
without the proper permits, correct?
MS. ARNOLD: They obtained their permits now.
MS. BARNETT: After the fact.
MS. ARNOLD: Correct.
MR. PONTE: Following the same logic that I expressed earlier
today, I think the $100 fine in this case, possible $100 fine is too low.
This has been a flagrant violation that has gone on. It's been a
dangerous violation, and in this instance I think $100 is too lenient.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Is someone willing to make a motion
Page 46
September 25, 2003
on the order of the board? (No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Let's start with that.
MS. DUSEK: I'll give it a try. I make the motion that the CEB
order the respondent to pay all operational costs incurred in the
prosecution of this case, that the respondent complete his permitting
process by getting all required inspections and Certificate of
Occupancy, that the respondent follow through on his site
development plan. All of this within 90 days or a fine of $150 per
day will be incurred. That the respondent notify the Code
Enforcement board -- Code Enforcement, that the violations have
been abated and to request the investigator to come out and perform
the site inspection.
MR. PONTE: I think that's excellent. You really did a good job.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion.
MR. PONTE: I'll second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: George, did you second that?
MR. PONTE: I'll second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second. Any
further discussion?
MS. BARNETT: I was kind of hoping for 200 a day.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I can live with the 150. I think it's
reasonable at this point because the respondent has finally made an
effort and got his permits and I think he understands the gravity at
this point, so I can accept that.
We have a motion and a second. Any further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All those in favor signify by saying
aye.
MR. DORIA: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
Page 47
September 25, 2003
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. RAMSEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any oppose?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Mr. Motwani, do you understand now
what we're ordering you to do is, the permits that you've received this
morning, is follow through and do what you're required, contact the
County to get any inspections, get your Certificate of Occupancy at
the end of those inspections, and whatever else the site development
plan says you're supposed to do with the property, do that.
Accomplish all that in 90 days. If in fact you do not do that in 90
days, a fine is going to start at $150 a day.
Now, if some unforeseen problem comes up, you always have
the right to ask the County to let you come back before this Board to
give you some relief if you can justify to us that it was beyond your
control and you couldn't comply within 90 days.
MR. MOTWANI: Yes, when I talked to her outside, plumbing,
electric, structure, everything could be done in less than 90 days. But
I took another permit today for the five sprinkler system, which I
think permitting and designing which we submitted today, but I think
it's going to go through a lot of channels. It's an old building. All the
piping and the sprinklers, that I need at least 180 days on that. Just
the sprinklers, that's what I'm saying.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I understand your concern. At this
point, since we've issued the Order, what I would recommend is, if
that is a problem, ask the County for permission to come back to us
and tell us that it is a problem and ask us for some relief. Okay? In
other words, go ahead and proceed as you're doing, but we've already
issued the Order, so to change it, I think it's easier now to just
proceed and come back and ask us for some help later. It's easier to
yotl.
Page 48
September 25, 2003
Under those conditions, I would say fairly certain that the board
will probably give you some relief. It's not a guarantee, but based on
what you just said, I think they would be understanding that the
problem is out of your control and we could help you. Okay?
MR. MOTWANI: Yeah. I appreciate it very much. Only thing
that I was thinking is of coming back again, I know the sprinkler
system is going to be almost impossible, because the way they do it,
all the plumbing, to go through all the whole hotel, it's going to take
them two, three months just to install it. And by the time it goes
through how many inspections here, I really don't know. And the
design and things like that. They might change the design after three
weeks and say, no, this needs to be changed and after another three
weeks maybe this needs to be changed. Assuming I know how the
system works. I'm an engineer myself.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I think this is probably the most
expedient way to do it. Just proceed full steam ahead like you're
doing, and if you need some assistance, ask the County to make an
appointment for you to come back before the Board.
MR. MOTWANI: I appreciate it. Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All right, sir. That was our last case,
so the public hearings are closed. We'll go to new business. Request
for imposition of fines and/or liens.
MS. ARNOLD: The first item on your agenda, is Board of
County Commissioners versus Haldeman Creek Enterprise, LLC.
That's Code Enforcement Board case 2003-023.
This particular case was heard by the Board on June 26, 2003,
and a violation was found, and the violation consisted of alterations
and enlargement of a kitchen area on the facility and some electrical
work without obtaining a building permit. The Board at that time
ordered the respondent to abate the violation by applying for the
required site development plan and applicable building permits
within 30 days and 90 days respectively. And if the violation did
Page 49
September 25, 2003
not, was not corrected, that fines of $50 per day would be imposed
for not obtaining a site improvement plan; and fines of $75 a day
would be imposed for not attending or complying with that site
development plan and permits.
On September 8th we did do an inspection and the violation did
remain. However, a demolition permit for the structure had been
applied for. And it was a submittal for a site development plan, but it
was subsequently withdrawn by the respondent.
MS. RAWSON: Michelle, if you were not sworn, would you
get sworn if you're going to be giving testimony? MS. ARNOLD: Okay.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm that the
testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth?
MS. ARNOLD: I do.
Also, the demolition permit was, apparently there was a
rejection by the fire department and three other departments as of
today. So, they don't really have a completed demolition permit that
has been issued.
Since the structure still remains and no permits have been
obtained for the modifications and/or removal, staff is at this time
requesting the board impose fines in the amount of $2,950 for the
period of July 28, 2003 through September 25, 2003 at a rate of $50
per day, plus $1,787.85 for the operational costs. And I believe a
representative for the property owner is here, Anne Frank.
MS. FRANK: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. I am Anne
Frank.
I'm the attorney for Haldeman Creek Enterprises, LLC.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Excuse me just a moment.
THE COURT REPORTER: Do you swear or affirm the
testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth?
Page 50
September 25, 2003
MS. FRANK: I do. Good morning, ladies and gentleman.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Good morning.
MS. FRANK: Thank you. I represent Haldeman Creek
Enterprises, LLC. The owner of that LLC is a woman by the name
of Harriet McCarthy who is an 80-year-old widow who had leased --
this property is on Bayshore Drive and it was a bar and grill that she
leased to some gentleman for a number of years. He did not pay her
any rent. And approximately in June he was the one that added this
kitchen addition and caused all the problems with the property. She
has since gotten rid of him out of the property and now is trying to
correct the problems that he created for her.
She has applied for the demolition to remove the kitchen
addition, but it was rejected because the -- and a site plan was
submitted, but the different departments within Collier County, one
wanted one thing, one wanted another thing, and so they didn't like
the plans, so she had to re-submit a plan which she has hired an
engineering company, Averan Pultin, to do, and they are in the
process of doing a new site plan.
But the problem is the different departments in the County won't
tell the engineering company what they want. The transportation
department wants something.
There's a gentleman by the name of Ross Glockenheimer who is
involved in this process. I have a list of about eight different names
of people that are involved in this process of trying to get the site
plan so she can get the demolition permit to comply with your Order.
There's a Michelle Crowley, John Kelly, Greg Garcia, who is
with the County Transportation Department, told her to do one thing,
and now he's left and someone else is telling her to do something
else.
We are actively -- she is actively pursuing this. Initially she
tried to do it on her own and became so frustrated. It's going to be
done and she wants it to be done, but she's working with the County.
Page 51
September 25, 2003
And I'm sure you've heard the story before, it's very difficult to
get everybody on board. And it's not her fault that she has not
complied with your Order. She did apply for the demolition permit
and it was rejected. She did put a site permit -- a site plan in and it
was rejected. So all she's trying to do is find out what she needs to
do to get the site plan accepted and to get the demolition accepted. I
guess that's all I have to say.
MS. ARNOLD: I just want to make a point of correction. The
site development plan is not required for the demolition permit.
They're two separate things. And so if she's wanting to remove the
portion, or the addition that was done without permits, she merely
obtained -- she merely needs to obtain a demolition permit for that
portion that was done.
MS. FRANK: Well, then why was it rejected? That's what she
did.
MS. ARNOLD: Well, I can't ask you why the demolition
permit was rejected, you'd have to review the comments that are
provided when it's rejected because there's letters that are provided
when --
MS. FRANK: I'm sorry. I've just become involved just
recently. I've just learned of this hearing yesterday. But, she applied
for the demolition and it was rejected. You know, I don't know what
you have to do to get a -- to demolish a portion of a building. I'm not
up on your requirements, so please, excuse me.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Anything else you want to tell the
board?
MS. FRANK: Regarding the fines, while I was sitting here I
noticed that someone mentioned that the requirements, you can only
have $50 maximum fines for each--
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: No, $250 per violation.
MS. FRANK: Per violation. Okay. Well, it's in the Order--
I'm a lawyer. In the Order it says that there was a $50 application to
Page 52
September 25, 2003
remove the -- for the kitchen addition that there was no permit for.
But then it appears that -- that fine, $50 per day. Then it also appears
that there's $75 violation or fine for the same thing. It all revolves
around the kitchen permit.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. I'm with you so far. So what's
the problem? 50 and 75 is only a hundred and a quarter and we go to
250.
MS. BARNETT: 250 per day.
MS. FRANK: Per day? Well, I just -- let me see what else.
I'm asking this Board that she'd have an extension of time to
complete, to get her demolition permit. I guess that's all she has to
do, and to find out what we have to do to get the demolition permit,
because no one has explained to us what we need to do. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: She has the right, for your
information, that when and if this is all finished, when she does, in
fact, comply, everything is done and she's met what we've ordered
her to do, whenever that takes place, whatever the fine is at that
point, she has the right to ask us to reduce it or abate it altogether for
whatever reasons. I tell you that because I think doing it now,
understanding that she's trying to find out what to do, she's still got
time to go. At this point I don't think the board would probably
entertain amending their Order to change the time. We would be --
based on past history of the Board. We're more prone to let things
run its course when she's done and has complied, come back to us
and say, gee, the fine is now X, I've done everything you say.
Because of these reasons, would you waive the fine or reduce it or
whatever. That's basically how the history of the Board is run. And
I would say it probably isn't going to change. But she has that right
when she's all done to come back to us, send you back to us, and say,
here's my list, this is why she couldn't do what you ask, now we're
asking you to waive or reduce the fines because of these items.
Page 53
September 25, 2003
Okay? She has that right.
MS. FRANK: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. Any discussion by the Board
on the imposition of fines? Entertain a motion to do it or not do it?
MS. DUSEK: I make a motion that we ask the County to impose
the fine of $2,950 plus the $1,787.85 for operational costs.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I have a motion to impose the fines as
requested.
MS. BARNETT: Is that through a specific period?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Yes, that's just through September
25th. And they will continue to run -- the other one has not taken
place because it doesn't come into effect until she does item one, and
then she has so many more days to do item two.
MS. BARNETT: If Bobbie would include the date in her
motion, I'll second it.
MS. DUSEK: That's fine.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. The fine is for the period July
28, 2003 through September 25, 2003. So we have an amended
motion. Do I hear a second?
MS. BARNETT: I second it if she amended it.
MS. DUSEK: Yes, that's fine.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: She agreed to amend it. We have a
motion and a second to impose the fines as requested. Any further
discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL:
signify by saying aye.
MR. DORIA: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
Hearing none, all those in favor
Page 54
September 25, 2003
MR. RAMSEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Next one, 2003-014.
MS. ARNOLD: Okay. This is a Code Enforcement Board case,
board of County Commissioners versus Wilma Britton. Case number
2003-014. And I'll discuss with you the next case as well. It's the
same respondent, 2003-015. Both cases were heard on the same day,
April 21st, although the second executive summary says the 23rd,
and both cases were found in violation.
The first case, the respondent was ordered to abate all violations
within 45 days by obtaining -- actually, abate the violations by
obtaining permits for the improvements that were made within 45
days. She was also instructed to obtain Certificate of Occupancy
with all the applicable inspections within 30 days or a fine of $50 for
each violation that continued past the days specified would be
imposed.
The violation was abated as the Board requested for the first
one, so the staff is at this time just requesting that we impose
operational costs in the amount of $914 for that first case, and
$448.05 for the second case, because both came into compliance as
requested.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a recommendation to impose
a fine for the operational costs only on the two cases against Ms.
Britton. Do I hear a motion to do so?
MS. DUSEK: I make the motion that we ask the County to
impose the fine in the first case, 2003-014, just for the operational
cost of $914.
And, Jean, can I do an and for the next case for the same person
or do I have to do it separately? Best to do it separate?
MS. RAWSON: Best to do a separate motion because they
have separate case numbers.
Page 55
September 25, 2003
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion to impose the fines
as requested on 2003-014. Do I hear a second? MR. PONTE: I'll second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: The motion and a second to impose the
fines as requested on operational costs. All those in favor signify by
saying aye.
MR. DORIA: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. RAMSEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. The next case against Ms.
Britton is 2003-015. Do I hear a motion to impose the operational
costs on that case?
MS. DUSEK:
MR. DORIA:
So moved for $448.05.
Second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second
impose the operational costs on case 2003-015.
signify by saying aye.
MR. DORIA: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. RAMSEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Case 2003-029.
MS. ARNOLD: Okay. The next case was Board
to
All those in favor
of County
Page 56
September 25, 2003
Commissioners versus Carl and Linda Weber. This case was heard
by the Board on August 28, 2003 for a pergola structure being
constructed within the setbacks and without building permits.
And the Board found in violation and ordered to correct within
the time specified on the executive summary. The respondent did
comply and staff is at this time requesting that the operational costs
in the amount of $673.75 be imposed on this property.
MS. DUSEK: I make a motion that we ask the County to
impose the fine on Carl and Linda Weber for the operational costs of
$673.75.
MS. BARNETT: Second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second for the
Board to impose the fines for operational costs in case 2003-029. All
those in favor signify by saying aye.
MR. DORIA: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. RAMSEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: That's all our new business. Down to
request to forward to the county attorney's office some items for
foreclosure processing, I assume.
MS. ARNOLD: Yes. In your packet, you should have a memo.
I apologize, it's on the second page. And the memo is requesting
that we forward the following cases, respondent, Lorraine Burgess
for case number 2003-016, respondent Claude Martel for cases
number 2003-001 and 002, and respondent Wayne Simpson for case
number 2001-085. All of these -- two of them have complied but we
have not received payment, and there are two non-compliance.
Page 57
September 25, 2003
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I would recommend to the Board that
we direct the county attorney's office to proceed with foreclosure on
these four cases.
MS. DUSEK: Is that a motion?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Yes.
MR. PONTE: I second.
MS. DUSEK: Second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We have a motion and a second to
direct the county attorney's office to proceed on these four cases. All
those in favor signify by saying aye.
MR. DORIA: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. RAMSEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Any opposed? (No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: New business is complete.
Old business. Affidavits of Compliance.
MS. ARNOLD: Staff is just reporting that we are going to be
filing Affidavit of Compliances on cases number 2003-014,
2003-015, both against Wilma Britton; and case number 2003-029,
which was Carl and Linda Weber's case with the Board.
We also are filing Affidavits of Non-compliance for case
number 2003-023, which is Haldemann Creek Enterprise, LLC,
2003-016, which is against Lorraine Burgess. And finally, 2001-085,
which is against Wayne Simpson.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Old
down to reports.
MS. ARNOLD: Yes, we do
attorney's office, Jennifer Belpedio.
MS. BELPEDIO:
business being complete, we're
have a report from the county
Hello, again. I'm Jennifer Belpedio. I want
Page 58
September 25, 2003
to make this presentation brief. I've provided you information in the
materials that I think are pretty thorough. For the benefit of those
persons watching who do not have the materials in front of them, as
you all know, there's a County Ordinance that allows this Board to
impose fines of up to $250 for a first violation, up to $500 a day for a
repeat violation, and up to $5,000 a day for an irreparable or
irreversible violation.
There is statutory authority to increase those upper limits and
this Board is authorized-- would be authorized to increase the limit
for the first violation from 250 to 1,000, for the repeat violation from
500 to 5,000, and for the irreparable or irreversible from 5,000 to
15,000.
What would be necessary is that this Board would, upon its
determination to increase the upper limits, rule on a motion, and that
information would be placed into an executive summary by Code
Enforcement staff. Our office would review that information and it
would be placed on the Board of County Commissioners' agenda.
They would consider the item, and if they approved and decided to
increase the upper limits, then our office and Code Enforcement
would be directed to amend the current County Ordinance to reflect
their decision.
So there is authority and it's really up to this Board to decide
whether or not to request the Board of County Commissioners to
make a decision to increase the upper limits.
Michelle may have some additional information she wants to
present to this Board regarding the staffs position.
MS. BARNETT: Jennifer, I have one question for you. On
your chart where it says upper limits as set forth in Statute 162.092D,
are those the upper limits that we're talking about as to 1,000 per day
and 5,000 for repeat?
MS. BELPEDIO: Yes, ma'am. And certainly this board could
decide that it wants to increase the upper limits of the 1,000, for
Page 59
September 25, 2003
instance, instead of 1,000 to 900 or whatever the case may be. It's
only up to 1,000 for the first violation.
And something also to keep in mind is that if these limits were
increased, that that doesn't mean that this Board would have to
necessarily impose them each and every time. It would just give you
a broader range of fines to impose in any given case.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We're scurrying because Bobbie didn't
have this in per packet. George has found his. And she's looked
back and front.
If you remember it our workshop this was an item that came up
and I asked Jennifer if she would be so kind to get us some more
information and that's what she's done.
Michelle, do you have anything to add?
MS. ARNOLD: The only thing is, you know, Jennifer has
provided you all a list of those counties that she received, or response
or inquiry on, and there are about 17 counties that meet the
population criteria. And of those 17, there's about seven of them that
have adopted ordinances that would allow for that.
I think that, as Jennifer indicated, we don't -- the Board doesn't
necessarily have to impose that level of fines, but there may be the
situation or case that those levels of fines would be warranted. So I
would recommend that.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We, at least you and I have talked, and
I think once with Jennifer, too, if I can remember correctly. This
came up and I hadn't thought of it, then when I thought of it I thought
it was a good idea and that's why I asked to have it brought up at the
workshop, and again why I asked Jennifer to look into it.
I think for our county, this would be a good thing, based on our
population and the way things have been growing, so on and so forth.
I know the county residents do a pretty good job in complying with
everything, but I think having the ability to do this is important for
the county personally. We don't have to decide on it this five
Page 60
September 25, 2003
seconds. I know some of this information is new to a couple of
people who weren't at the workshop, so they need to digest it if they
haven't already done so.
And if there's anything any of the board members would like to
ask the County to provide us as to more information, I'm sure they'd
be glad to try and do it. I would like the members to give it good
consideration, because I would, before recommending to the
commissioners, that this change take place.
Any questions for Jennifer or Michelle at this time?
MR. PONTE: Just Jennifer. Lee County, where there is a
$5,000 maximum, whether it be a repeat or initial violation, do they
have a top figure, or is it just up to 5,000, we'll stop?
MS. BELPEDIO: It's up to $5,000 across the board regardless
of whether it's a first, second, or third or whatever violation.
Something to note that I don't think I included in there, is that they
have all their cases heard by a hearing examiner.
MR. PONTE: Explain to me what the difference would be.
How would that make a difference as far as we're concerned, whether
they hear theirs by hearing examiner?
MS. BELPEDIO: It really doesn't. It's just something that may
be interesting or important for you all to know just where their cases
are heard. It's not relevant for determination, no.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Jennifer, you were probably the one to
tell us this, the statutes give the counties the right to set up these
Boards. The counties don't have to set boards up like we have. They
could probably go this other route instead, which Lee County
obviously has done.
MS. BELPEDIO: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: So it may have been Lee County's
decision that rather than look for volunteers to make these decisions,
they thought a hearing examiner is the easiest way out, where Collier
County has decided to set up the Board and over many, many years
Page 61
September 25, 2003
has worked well, I think.
MR. PONTE: Is there any reason for to us consider -- I don't
know what they are, I'm just thinking out loud here, to put our fining
mechanism or limits, the same as those of Lee County?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Well, I think Jennifer would probably
tell us that under the -- now that we have this Board, the only option
left to the County is this. I don't think they can go back to straight
across the board 5,000. When I read the statutes, it was pretty clear.
We can do the 250 or go to this 1,000.
MS. BELPEDIO: Your options would be 1,000 maximum for
first, 5,000 max for a repeat, and 15,000 for irreparable.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: We just don't have that option
anymore now that the Board has been established.
MS. BARNETT: Maybe this is a question just out of my
inexperience that I'm going to ask. Jean, would this help us in those
cases that we've had come back that we've extended the 250 and all
of a sudden we've realized that we've hit them with more than a $250
a day fine?
MS. RAWSON: Yes, it would. And also it may serve as a
deterrent because -- and you don't have to, you know, go around
fining people $1,000, but you can up to that limit.
MS. BARNETT: So it would give us a little more latitude in
other words?
MS. RAWSON: You have more latitude, absolutely. Especially
for repeat violators. And it might have a deterrent effect.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I think that's probably one of the -- I
don't like to use the word good, but one of the good things about
increasing the amount is when the public understands that there is
now more --
MS. BARNETT: Bite in our bark?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Yeah, bite in the bark, that's a good
one. That they may be prone to listen to the code enforcement
Page 62
September 25, 2003
investigators that come to their property because now they can get
hurt a little more. Not saying we would do it, or some Board after us
would do it. I just think that it's a good thing for Collier County
because we all understand that Collier County is different than any
other county in the State of Florida. If you look at real estate and
everything else that's here, it's totally different. And with all our
construction and everything else and the people that move here, I
think this is a good thing. I really do. Not just so that we could use
it. I just think it's always good to have a deterrent and the ability to
do it. I hope everyone will consider it. That it would be a
recommendation.
MS. BARNETT: Cliff, I agree with you. And I also think
because this county is growing as it is, this would be a step in the
right direction of helping us meet future potential issues and already
have the statute in place.
MS. DUSEK: I'm going to play the devil's advocate. I think it's
good to have that latitude to do it. My fear is that it might be abused.
Most of the people coming before us are average citizens. The fine
of even $100 a day I think is difficult. And I can foresee that we may
end up having more properties going into foreclosure. I just hope
that if we do initiate this, that we don't abuse it. That's my only fear.
Because I think our fines, if we go to the 250, that's a steep climb.
MR. PONTE: I agree with you. What's missing here is, there
isn't a safety mechanism in place that you could really take this
Board to get involved and could issue a fine that is truly horrific
when you start to multiply the per diems. These mount up, even at
250. If that goes for any length of time, you're looking at a pot full
of penalty. It would be nice to get the limits up, if they could go, but
if there was some sort of safety mechanism in place so that a fine
isn't then just pronounced in the course of ten minutes deliberation.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Well, I guess my argument, for lack of
a better word on that side, George, is the intelligence of the Board
Page 63
September 25, 2003
violations,
seriousness
strength.
members. I think the Commissioners, when they pick people to sit
on this Board, don't do it lightheartedly and they try to get a good
mix. And as seen from Board members I've seen since I have been
here, and they've come and gone, they've all been decent people and
they've tried to do the right thing. We all get a vote. It takes at least
four to say yes. So I think we have the safety net in that the makeup
of the Board itself. Otherwise, you're saying, well, they don't trust the
Board members to use good judgment.
MR. PONTE: I trust this Board members, but I don't know
about future board members.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I understand. Any Board can change
and when we all leave, the next Board can recommend to the County
that they do it, so. I think if we, having done a great job up to this
point, I think you all have made some very good arguments on lots of
cases. And we have negotiated good deals among ourselves for the
people.
If it were instituted, we could set the standard on how and if it
was ever used. Because just knowing the makeup of the Board
members, unless some weird case, I can honestly sit here and say, I'd
be really hard pressed to hit somebody with $1,000 a day unless there
was something drastic. As it is, we very rarely use the 250. We've
used it a few times. But I think the ability to have it there is what's
important to the County. Not to actually use it, but it's just the ability
to have it available.
MR. PONTE: I think the strongest case is that it removes the
problem with hitting the ceiling. That is when we get multiple
it enables us to work up and to fine accurately the
of several violations in one case. That's certainly a
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Right. So, again, we could think on it
and maybe make a recommendation later, or if everyone is
comfortable, I have no problem at this point saying that I am in favor
Page 64
September 25, 2003
of making a recommendation to the County Commissioners that they
make this change to the existing ordinance.
MR. PONTE: How should we timetable it? What do you want
to do for a timetable?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: If we're not willing to do it now, what I
would really like to do, because I don't know what's all involved with
the commissioners. They probably have to go through a certain
process like everything else. And the staff has to go through I'm sure
a bigger process just to get it to the commissioners.
MS. ARNOLD: All that would be required is an adoption of an
ordinance giving you all that ability. And it could be just an
amendment to your existing ordinance, the Code Enforcement
Ordinance --
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: If we, right now today, I made a
motion that we recommend that the Commissioners do this and we
got enough to agree to it, what's the process to get it done? How
long a period are we looking at? I'm sure the Commissioners must go
through something.
MS. ARNOLD: It would be -- I would bring the issue to the
Board saying that this was recommended. They would have to direct
the county attorney's office to go ahead and pursue it, and they would
draft an ordinance or a resolution. I don't know which one is
applicable, but they would do it, and it just depends on the timing of
the county attorney's office to get it done.
MS. BELPEDIO: Keep in mind, it will have to come before the
Board twice.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: That's what I thought. Like a public
reading, or however they call that or something. I don't know the
proper terminology.
MS. BELPEDIO:
ordinance.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL:
An advertised public hearing on the
So whether we do it today or wait 30
Page 65
September 25, 2003
days, I don't think we should say let's all consider it for the next 90
days and then make a recommendation. I'm almost to the point
where I'd be willing to make a motion that we recommend to the
County Commissioners that they proceed with this item.
MS. BARNETT: If you would go forward with that motion, I
can tell you you've got a second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I'll make the motion. Let's see what
happens.
MS. BARNETT: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: If that doesn't work, we can come up
with the next date where we might like to consider it.
So we have a motion and a second on the floor to recommend to
the Commissioners that they make this change to the Ordinance.
Any further discussion on it?
MR. PONTE: One other question. Again, just along with my
concern about this total increase. Is there a way to step it halfway?
MS. BELPEDIO: Yes. There's nothing to say that you must
ask that the ordinance contain all of the upper limits as set forth in
162092D. You certainly could decide that it's 75, 2,500 and 7,500
instead of the upper limits in the statute. Or you could choose any
other numbers in between. I don't mean to put any numbers into your
MR. PONTE: That just might give me a little bit more comfort
in terms of everything that I said before.
MS. DUSEK: I can tell you I'm not comfortable with this at all.
I think that our fines the way they read are enough. And again, I just
point out that there was a comment made earlier that we know the
real estate in Collier County, but most of the people who come
before us are average ordinary people. And it's a struggle for them to
accept any of these fines.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Since we have a motion and a second
at the current rates of 1,000, 5,000 and 15, I'm willing to leave it at
Page 66
September 25, 2003
that since we have a second, and let's take a vote and see where that
goes. I'm comfortable with that. I don't have a problem with the
numbers based on the makeup of the Board.
MS. BARNETT: Just as a reminder, the Board we'll be setting
the precedent and we don't have to utilize those limits. It just gives
us the option if we needed to, to have that leverage.
There is one case that I can think back of that it might have put
a little more bite to the gentleman and he would have expedited
getting things done. And he was one of those few that have come
before us that could afford it because he was a developer.
I don't think that this Board, in its makeup, would do this to the
general public. The majority of the people that have come forward,
but I think that would be at our discretion if we would have that
ability.
The other option is, it would keep us from having things sent
back to us from upper court, and I think that that's a big leverage to
have as a utilization mechanism. And I trust this Board, having
worked with you for almost a year now, that we're all pretty
levelheaded. And I would like to see that we would be the ones
setting the precedent and utilizing this for future boards. That's kind
of where I stand.
MR. PONTE: And I agree with what you're saying. But rather
than going all the way to cover the bases so that we don't get
reversals and charged with overfining, a halfway step would
accomplish the same thing.
My concern is that we have a minimum threshold in our mind
now, but that entire scale is based on the fact that we're stopped at
250. So we start at, you know, in our mind $50 all the way up to
250. If we raise and increase that to 1,000, that limit, or 750, we are
-- we will, just human nature, raise our own threshold and think, well
I could, you know, is this a $500 fine or is this a $200 fine. And
suddenly the bottom --
Page 67
September 25, 2003
MS. ARNOLD: Why don't I make a suggestion since you're not
sure if you can control yourselves.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: First thing is, and Jean can help me
here. We have a motion and a second on the floor, so I think we have
to proceed with it first.
MS. RAWSON: You do.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: That's parliamentary etiquette. It's the
floor, it must be voted on. It either passes or it doesn't and then we
can come up with another motion. I think everybody has made their
pitch. Some of us are for it, some are less.
So, as it stands, the motion which is seconded, is for the maxed
at what the statutes allow, which is 1,000 for the first, 5,000 for
repeat, and 15,000 for anything that's irreparable. That's what's on
the floor so let's take a vote. All those in favor of that, to make sure
we get the proper count, I'm going to ask for a show of hands, please.
All those in favor signify by raising their hands.
MR. DORIA: (raises hand.)
MS. BARNETT: (raises hand.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: (raises hand.)
MR. RAMSEY: (raises hand.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: One, two, three,
four. All those opposed?
MS. DUSEK: (raises hand.)
MR. PONTE: (raises hand.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Two, it passes, four to two.
MS. ARNOLD: And what I'll do is see whether or not we can
get some additional information from the other counties that have the
higher levels and see, you know, what the average of their fines per
day, just so you can see that, you know, what it is that other
communities are actually doing with that added authority. Okay?
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Okay. So if you'll proceed with
making recommendations or whatever Jennifer needs to do, or
Page 68
September 25, 2003
whoever has to do what.
Thank you very much, Jennifer.
MS. BELPEDIO: Thank you for your time.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Under comments. Go ahead.
MS. DUSEK: I just have one comment. I appreciate the fact
that maybe we were trying to save paper on this last bit of
information to us, but I would appreciate it if they could be separated
instead of having an Affidavit of Non-compliance and an Affidavit of
Compliance, et cetera, on one side.
MS. ARNOLD: It wasn't a matter of us trying to save paper. It
was a matter of our copier did not do the work.
MS. DUSEK: Okay. Well, whatever the reason.
MR. PONTE: It was confusing, but it's a good idea to save the
paper.
MS. ARNOLD: It was also late. So, we are working to try to
get better service.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Michelle was kind enough to give me
an un-marked package and it doesn't tick so I'm going to open it.
MS. ARNOLD: You were supposed to open that at the
beginning.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Is it lunch? It's not lunch. Oh, terrific.
A gavel. Okay.
Code Enforcement.
arsenal. Besides fines,
school days.
Thank you very much. We'll see that this gets passed along.
Anything else?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL:
room. Nothing else.
MS. BARNETT: I make a motion that we adjourn.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: I hear a motion.
Now we have a new implement in our
we can rap knuckles now. Reminder of
Our next meeting is the 23rd in this
Page 69
September 25, 2003
aye.
MR. PONTE: I second.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: All those
MR. DORIA: Aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MS. DUSEK: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Aye.
MR. PONTE: Aye.
MR. RAMSEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FLEGAL: Adjourned.
(Proceedings concluded at 11:45 a.m.)
in favor signify
by saying
COLLIER COUNTY
CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD
CLIFFORD FLEGAL, Chairman
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT
REPORTING SERVICE, INC. BY DANIELLE AHREN
Page 70