BCC Minutes 06/13/2003 S (w/CRA & CRA Advisory Board)June 13, 2003
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING
OF THE COLLIER COUNTY COMMUNITY
REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
Naples, Florida, June 13, 2003
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County
Community Redevelopment Agency met on this date at 8:30 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION, in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Fred Coyle
Donna Fiala
Frank Halas
Jim Coletta
Tom Henning
ALSO PRESENT: Patrick White, Assistant County Attorney
Sue Filson
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COLLIER COUNTY
COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
AGENDA
June 13, 2003
8:30 a.m.
Tom Henning, Chairman, District 3
Donna Fiala, Vice-Chair, District 1
Frank Halas, Commissioner, District 2
Fred W. Coyle, Commissioner, District 4
Jim Coletta, Commissioner, District 5
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON ANY AGENDA ITEM
MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO SPEAKING. SPEAKERS MUST REGISTER
WITH THE COUNTY MANAGER PRIOR TO THE PRESENTATION OF THE
AGENDA ITEM TO BE ADDRESSED.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 99-22 REQUIRES THAT ALL
LOBBYISTS SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES
(INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE
BOARD AT THE BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
REQUESTS TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON SUBJECTS WHICH ARE NOT ON
THIS AGENDA MUST BE SUBMITTED IN WRITING WITH EXPLANATION
TO THE COUNTY MANAGER AT LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF
THE MEETING AND WILL BE HEARD UNDER "PUBLIC PETITIONS".
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD
WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO,
AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD
OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE
TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
ALL REGISTERED PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL RECEIVE UP TO FIVE (5)
MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY
ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING,
YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, TO THE PROVISION OF
CERTAIN ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY
FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT LOCATED AT 3301 EAST
1
June 13, 2003
TAMIAMI TRAIL, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112, (239) 774-8380; ASSISTED
LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN
THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' OFFICE.
1. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
2. ADOPTION OF AGENDA
e
BRIEF ADDRESS (5 MINUTES) FROM THE BAYSHORE/GATEWAY
TRIANGLE LOCAL REDEVELOPMENT ADVISORY BOARD
CHAIRMAN - BILL NEAL.
BAYSHORE/GATEWAY TRIANGLE COMMUNITY
REDEVELOPMENT AREA ITEMS
Ae
TO APPROVE THE ADDITION OF TWO AT LARGE MEMBERS TO
THE BAYSHORE/GATEWAY TRIANGLE REDEVELOPMENT
ADVISORY BOARD AND ALL NECESSARY BY-LAWS
AMENDMENTS.
TO APPROVE AND EXECUTE THE SITE IMPROVEMENT GRANT
AGREEMENTS BETWEEN THE COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT
AGENCY AND GRANT APPLICANTS WITHIN THE
BAYSHORE/GATEWAY TRIANGLE REDEVELOPMENT AREA.
TO APPROVE THE CREATION OF AN EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
POSITION TO MANAGE THE BUSINESS OF THE
BAYSHORE/GATEWAY TRIANGLE REDEVELOPMENT AREA.
ADJOURN
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June 13, 2003
June 13, 2003
CHAIRMAN COYLE: We're three. We're going to call this
meeting to order. I'm ready to call -- we have four people. Would
you please rise for the pledge of allegiance.
(Pledge of allegiance.)
Item #2
ADOPTION OF AGENDA-APPROVED
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Are there any proposed changes to the
agenda this morning. He's signed as a speaker. You're the only
person who is mentioned on the -- you want to make -- you want to
make that as a changed agenda?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You want to amend?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Then, you're now on the -- then you've
amended it.
Are there any other changes to the agenda?
Hearing none, is there a motion to move the agenda.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: So moved.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thank you. Now, we have a brief-- it
says -- it says brief address, Bill, from you.
MR. NEAL: Are you admonishing me before I get up there.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: No, I'm just reading -- I'm just reading
what it says --
MR. WHITE: Mr. Chairman--
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- it says brief address from
Bayshore/Gateway Triangle Local Redevelopment Advisory Board
Chairman Bill Neal.
MR. WHITE: Mr. Chairman, before he starts, just a point of
order, if you would have the commission vote on the motion, please.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Vote on which motion?
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June 13, 2003
THE WHITE: The one you just made.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: It's on the agenda.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Oh, we can't do it by acclamation?
right. Could I have a vote on the approval of the agenda?
MR. WHITE: I apologize, but thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: That's all right.
All in favor, aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Opposed. Likewise. Okay. It is
approved.
All
Item #3
BRIEF ADDRESS (5 MINUTES) FROM THE
BAYSHORE/GATEWAY TRIANGLE LOCAL
REDEVELOPMENT ADVISORY BOARD CHAIRMAN- BILL
NEAI~-PRESENTED
MR. NEAL: Good morning, Commissioners, or, I'm sorry, B --
CRA. Now, the reason I'm a little confused because the name tags
up there show Donna Fiala as Vice-Chairman and Fred as Chairman,
now, we're speaking to the CRA and I think Frank Halas is the
Vice-Chairman, is that right? I'm looking at the name plates up here.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What's your name?
MR. NEAL: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You're exactly right. I
should've done that. I'm starting off the morning confused and I'll
tell you why later. Good morning. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Don't confuse us.
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June 13, 2003
MR. NEAL: You've got me confused after that. I'm Bill Neal,
and I'm Chairman of your Bayshore/Gateway Triangle CRA
Advisory Board, and I'm happy to be here with you once again, but,
again, in case somebody was out there, there is confusion about the
name tags on the set up. I'm just making a point.
Do you understand, Donna?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: We understand.
MR. NEAL: Okay. Thank you very much. This morning we're
going to discuss a couple of-- two executive summaries, and then,
again, it, maybe four executive summaries, because there is some
confusion about all of this issue today, and, well, it should be. But
maybe after our comments you'll understand the reason for this.
First, some background to understand that the recommendations
from your advisory committee comes with some experience in this
matter. Your advisory committee is made up of seasoned
professionals, so I hope you will consider that, if you hear some
disagreement from us with the County staff.
Here's some background that should explain what I'm saying.
Nearly seven years ago Bayshore created a private initiative to
redevelop the Bayshore area, because County funds were not
available and County Commissioners did not have the time to look at
a blighted area.
I'll skip a lot of the details, but through the effort of the
Bayshore MSTU, the CRA was born. The MSTU proposal included
the right to form a CRA in the area, because, again, it was a complete
blighted area, the County Commissioners really didn't have the time
to administrator it or manage it, and so they wanted to turn the
management over to someone who had the best interest of the area
concern.
There were no Collier County CRAs at that time. And County
staff advised us that this County was not ready for a CRA, and that
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June 13, 2003
they would be unable to get BCC Commission permission, sorry.
So we pursued our goal, anyway. And when it became apparent
we would get permission, staff asked us from the Bayshore area to
include Davis Triangle and Highway 41 in the proposal for the CRA.
Hence you have what we have now the Bayshore/Gateway
Triangle CRA. This history is important because I was involved in
that entire process. And as Chairman of the Bayshore MSTU, I bring
some years of experience, and was asked to bring that same
experience to help chair the CRA Advisory Board.
The CRA, I've served as -- two years as your Chairman. I've
served -- by the way an aside, four years as Chairman of your County
Productivity Committee. So, I've walked through your halls many,
many hours and many volunteer times.
I mentioned this primarily because later it would be obvious
how important it is that we have continuity for the CRA to succeed.
Now, let's look at why we have some organizational problems
and why it's somewhat confusing.
Aaron, if you'd put the chart up for our folks, please.
Now, here's a cart, I think you can see on your screen there, the
organization as it exists today. A very important point in question is
at what level does staff become a part of the process, or should I say,
a partner in the process. If you'll notice that the Bayshore/Gateway
reports to the CRA. Does the County staff report to the CRA, or
does the County Staff report to the BCC?
And, on the other hand, does the BCC control what the CRA is
doing if it's not in the best interest of the CRA, or there's some
controversy, or has the BCC put themselves in a position of trying to
wear two hats under this organization.
So your committee's question that we're going to talk about
today, has brought up this confusion with the organization of the
CRA. Now, we're trying to work with staff at the committee level, so
we can bring good sound proposals to the CRA, but at the BCC level,
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June 13, 2003
there may be -- they may be in a position that's not in their mind
that's best for the Planning Department.
In essence, they are putting on two hats also. They're trying to
wear hats to represent the BCC. And as I said in between there,
they're also trying to work with the CRA planning group. This is a
difficult position to put them in, and, yet, the effective administration
of the CRA by you seems to me to be even a greater problem.
You were given this manual to look at when this CRA was
organized. It's a highly technical document and full of a lot of do's
and don'ts. With all of the things you have on your platter being
County Commissioners and CRA, it's hard to understand how you
could really get into the meat of all that's going on here. How can
you be assured whether staff or the advisory committee is leading
you in the best interest of the CRA, if you're wearing your BCC hat.
As the BCC, do you support the CRA or staff recommendations. Is
there a conflict here, because I'm just asking questions that have
come up before our committee.
Now, if you say that this problem is solved because the CRA
and the BCC are one in the same, this causes a problem of how the
CRA is supposed to function.
As I understand the State of Florida statutes about CRAs it's
supposed to be a combination of elected officials and working with
representatives from the private sector. In our CRA, we have all
elected officials. It is a problem with the BCC looking at what is in
the best interest for the CRA, or best for the County, and I say that
not as criticism, but as observation.
The CRA was formed, again, because of a blighted area, and
commissioners did not have the time to develop that particular area.
So they delegated that authority to a CRA.
In essence, they delegated the same authority that they didn't
have the time to do to themselves. These questions are the same and
germane to both Immokalee and the Bayshore/Gateway area. And
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June 13, 2003
by the way, I'm sympathetic to the workload you have, and I can't
speak for the Immokalee area, but I can say to you that I know time
is a problem, because only one of the CRA members has had time to
meet with the CRA Advisory Board. And in these early planning
stages for this organization, it's important that everybody understand
the mission, the goals and objectives that are in the best interest of
the CRA.
Now, please don't be surprised at my remarks. I'm not here to
cause controversy, and I hope you don't think these remarks are
critical. This is constructive -- constructive remarks, based on having
worked through Bayshore MSTU, and now working over two years
through the CRA.
The operating manual that I just showed you was written by
County staff, and by the way, no criticism again, but they had very
little experience with CRAs, if any at all. And unfortunately they did
not include anybody from the private sector while they were writing
this manual.
So, therefore, we're having to look at the manual again and try
to interpret what is best for the CRA, and not necessarily for the
County, because it was written under the auspices of the Planning
Department, which reports to the County.
Had the private sector been a part of this process, you'd
probably would have seen an organization set up initially that looks
like this. Aaron, please, would you put up that other chart.
You'll see in this organization, where, as we look back to make
it most effective, how it should be set up. Just a suggestion, and not
a criticism. You have the BCC and you have two separate CRAs,
one for the Bayshore/Gateway Triangle and one for Immokalee. I
hope you guys, folks will agree with me that we have totally different
objectives in Bayshore/Gateway than the Immokalee folks have.
That's their game and we're playing our game. Totally different. So
had we made recommendations from the private sector we would've
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June 13, 2003
included-- we would've included private representation to be a part
of the CRA. And this is a proposal just for you to look at, it shows
Bayshore/Gateway with Donna Fiala, Fred Coyle, Frank Halas as a
mutual member, and two redevelopment area members, and there's a
big circle there, just to give you an example, and I don't -- I don't
want this to be self-serving, I think my name is there, and the
Vice-chairman of the Advisory Committee, but two people from the
private sector, is my point. The same thing with Immokalee.
Now, this would create an organization, if you just take a few
moments to glance at it, that would make it a lot clearer about how
CRAs should be effective in our County.
It would give the BCC the opportunity to make the big decision
from their fiduciary responsibility of spending the tax dollars, having
had the CRA make recommendations to the BCC. It would eliminate
the apparent conflict of interest between the BCC and the CRA. This
would give an organization that creates more time from the
commissioners involved to work in their particular areas for the
success of their CRA. Not that I don't appreciate that you're trying to
work for the whole thing.
So I know that you are aware that the CRAs have two different
objectives as I said earlier. I hope you'll think about this, and as we
bring up the two issues that are involved today, I hope you will
remember some background information I've given here.
This says five minutes. So I've stayed within my five minutes,
and I left out a lot.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That's pretty good.
MR. NEAL: But thank you very much.
Item #4A
CRA RESOLUTION 2003-217 APPROVING THE ADDITION OF
TWO AT LARGE MEMBERS TO THE BAYSHORE/GATEWAY
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June 13, 2003
TRIANGLE REDEVELOPMENT ADVISORY BOARD AND ALL
NECESSARY BY-I~AWS AMENDMENTS-ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN COYLE: A question from Commissioner Halas.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I think the way -- your
presentation was excellent, and I think what the County Board of
County Commissioners is really trying to do is, yes, we have a heavy
workload, and I think what we're trying to do is delegate this
responsibility down, and I think what it needs to have be done here is
a combination of staff working with the CRA, and the staff,
basically, giving you the proper direction so that we're in within the
legal bounds, and then I would think that the CRA would, then,
report back after they had a buy-in from staff, but you people are
basically the leaders of this, because we've delegated that
responsibility to you. Once we're in compliance with everything,
then I think it's -- that should be the responsibility of the CRA to
report back to the County Commissioners, what your findings are,
and then from there we take on that other responsibility of voting in
what needs to be done for your CRA.
Do you believe -- do you --
MR. NEAL: No, I appreciate your remarks, however, to give
you an example of a problem that comes with that, we have a statute,
an ordinance that sets up the advisory committee, and it's pretty clear
about the set up, where the members should come from, and yet, I
don't know whether it was the BCC or the CRA that made
modifications to change that, which there is something within your
minutes that says that. There was no consultation with your
Advisory Board on whether or not we should modify the ordinance
that exists for the Advisory Board.
Now, if you're going to use your advisory board for the purposes
that you're talking about, put the workload on us, and let us bring you
that analysis, then I agree with what you're saying, but if the CRA or
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the BCC, which we're never-- we're never sure which one is doing
the action, interjects themselves, we'd like for them to give us the
courtesy to bring that information to us, so that, so you use your
advisory board, otherwise, doing that continuously, you render your
advisory board useless.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah. I think that's what we do, is
try to empower you to assist in -- in finding the answers in working
with staff, and, then, hopefully you'll bring the end results. I would
think that's the way we want to go.
MR. NEAL: It is not working that way, in all due respect.
That's why I'm making my point.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
MR. NEAL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Henning -- oh, I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: No, that's okay. I'm finished.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Neal, the -- your comments
are well taken, and I think what we tend to forget is the government
structure has changed over the years, and how do we get it back to
where the direction comes from the people to the representatives,
instead of government delegating to the people. And the
organization chart that you're presenting to the Board of
Commissioners -- or the CRA is -- I'm not sure if it's legal, so we
have to abide by certain statutes. But the CRA Advisory for the
Bayshore/Gateway, really should be on the top. And you really
should be telling us what to do, and we'll tell you whether we feel
that you're correct in your analysis, and I guess for my perspective, it
would be, you know, funding requests we might not dis -- we might
not agree on those items, but as far as how you do it, I would really
want for you to tell me how you want to do it.
MR. NEAL: Commissioner Henning, thank you very much for
your comments about the change in the structure of the thinking of
the commissioners, and God bless you, and I know you sincerely
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mean that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Sure.
MR. NEAL: This CRA was formed under a totally, totally
different mode of thinking, as far as how things should be run in the
County.
At the time this was formed the Commissioners had the
opportunity to form this committee just exactly the way I'm showing
it to you this morning. The statutes gave them the opportunity -- am
I right about that --
MR. MEARS: Yes.
MR. NEAL: The statutes gave you -- them the right to do that.
However, and I don't mean to sound critical, it's just a professional
observation from business experience, the control was wanted to be
left with the County Commissioners at that time. They did not want
to delegate that authority, as you just -- you and Mr. Halas have
suggested.
I'm not being critical. I'm making, I hope, constructive
observations about that. And thank you very much for your remarks.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, we just need to find out
if under the statutes, you know, what's legal and what's not legal
from the County Attorney.
MR. NEAL: Mr. Chairman, what I -- I'm sorry, what I'm trying
to do is fill out something today that wasn't really on the agenda, but
it addresses the frustration that your advisory committee is going
through, and try to do a little research to give you something to think
about this, you know, if you -- if you send this back to us and say,
okay, Bill, we're interested, give us all the ramifications, we'll do that
research for you. So you won't have to do that. And, hopefully, at
that time we will designate where the Planning organization really
works with us, and we'll probably end up doing that before the day's
over.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Coletta.
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June 13, 2003
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And I also would like to thank
you for the time and effort you put into this. I think you're making a
good product. I can't speak for the Bayshore/Gateway CRA, but I do
know the Immokalee CRA and their meeting I've attended a number
of them, and I like the process. I sit there as more of an observer than
as a participant, because I'd like to have it come from a grass roots
level for the people that are actually experiencing the conditions out
in the field. And I very much appreciate the fact they allow me to sit
in their meetings, of course, I don't think they'd refuse me, if I -- but I
do appreciate the fact -- when I sit in there, I get to pick up the tempo
of what they're talking about and get the feel of it. But I try not to
interfere because it should be coming from a grass roots movement,
at least in Immokalee it seems to be working well. I'm sorry I haven't
made one of the Bayshore/Gateway ones yet, the advisory meetings,
but I'll see if I can.
MR. NEAL: Mr. Coletta, I'm not surprised. Again, you're
looking at my second chart. You guys have a lot of responsibility.
Appropriately, it would be very, very apropos if Ms. Fiala and Fred
Coyle came to our meetings, and certainly I'm not being critical, but
Donna has been an active participant with this CRA, and by the way,
the Bayshore MSTU, from the very beginning too. So she can attest
to all the background information I'm giving you is true. But we had
to work very hard to get these things going, and I'd hate to see the
CRA bogged down into a slow kick off, because of people not
understanding what the organization is all about -- all about, and
please, no criticism, your County staff, the experience is not there.
And we'll talk about that a little bit later.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Halas.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I think that a CRA should be set
up so that the citizens who live in that neighborhood -- the citizens
who live in that neighborhood direct how they want their community
to be redeveloped, and I think this is very important, and I think that's
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June 13, 2003
probably one of reasons that you were chosen to be on the advisory,
because you have the leadership qualities, and you and the rest of the
staff take input from the citizens in regards to how you want your
community to look at the end result. And I think it's very important
that the -- that the CRA advisory committee have a lot of input and
are delegated to take on that responsibility.
MR. NEAL: Well, maybe it's appropriate at this point, Aaron,
that I bring in Bill Mears, who's also on our advisory committee, to
talk about that organization set up, because we've just hit on several
salient points that will answer some of your questions about what
you can and cannot do as a CRA.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: That'll be fine, Bill, but I'd like to make
a couple of observations and perhaps Bill Mears can incorporate
some answers into that when he gets up to make his presentation. In
my opinion, the structure of the organization is less important than its
content. I don't see that it serves your objectives to create a CRA that
is still dominated by County Commissioners. You got three voting
members on there, and you've got two at large -- I mean, two from
the private sector. It doesn't change anything. It's unusual, in my
opinion, to have an advisory board dominated by County
Commissioners. We don't do it with the TDC. We don't do it with
the other advisory boards that we have. There is representation, even
all of the horizon committees that we have established and the
Commissioners have a representation there, but they are in the
minority. They do not control it.
In this particular case, even though you rearrange it or
reorganize it, you still have control by County Commissioners, and I
don't think that's what you want. What you need, I believe, is a
liaison with the County Commissioners. I quite frankly believe
there's a problem with having an advisory board dominated by
Collier County Commissioners who then come to the Collier County
Commissioners and make recommendations about expending funds.
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June 13, 2003
I think there's a fundamental conflict of interest there, and if I believe
-- believe that having three on there, on the board is bad, having five
is even worse. So I think you should give some thought to whether
or not you want anyone, other than a liaison, on this board. It's your
money. It's your neighborhood. The County Commissioners will
have final authority to approve expenditures anyway, so that they can
-- they can satisfy their fiduciary duty, and in absence some -- some
statute that requires us to be the majority on a CRA, and I don't think
there is a requirement for that. I don't see any need to have a
majority of County Commissioners on a CRA, quite frankly.
MR. NEAL: Thank you, Mr. Coyle. By the way, I was going
to bring this up later, but I attended a meeting of the Florida
Redevelopment Association which constitutes about 125 CRAs
across the state, and when we get to the executive director issue, I'll
-- I'm getting a little bit ahead of myself, but I did pick up a lot of
information. I went there and spent three days to try to learn how we
could really make our CRA effective, and quite frankly they are set
up a myriad of ways. But primarily, the ones that are most
successful have the far greater weight towards the private sector than
they do the elected officials.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It doesn't surprise me.
MR. NEAL: And those are the ones that are successful. I was
throwing something out this morning to get you thinking about let's
look-- let's rethink this whole process of how we're doing it, because
your committee, your advisory committee feels like we're at a
crossroads, and we're stumbling and trying to get something
accomplished and make sure that we present the best to you folks,
and, frankly, we're failing in that.
So this is a plea for you to look at this as a suggestion. I think if
I may, Bill, don't you have the answer to the question about the set
up -- unless -- this will fit right in.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Commissioner Fiala has a
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June 13, 2003
question she'd like to ask before we do that.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. Thank you very much. I
think where this all arose from was at one of our board meetings the
subject came up as to who we would include, and we had a nice list
of people to include on the CRA board-- advisory board, and then it
came to be that we discussed maybe including somebody that didn't
live or work in the area, and there was nobody there to represent the
advisory board, and so in our enthusiasm and eagerness to please this
advisory board we -- we changed the rules for them. And, of course,
those weren't the rules they wanted changed, but we had no way of
knowing what they would want or not want.
So I think that that's what stimulated this whole process in the
first place, and maybe there's a way for us to solve that problem by
your suggestion, Commissioner Coyle, of having a liaison, and -- and
I'm there enough, you know, I did not know, I could've spoken up for
them, except I didn't know that they didn't want somebody from
outside the area. So we should've just put that on the back burner
until we consulted with them. I know that all of us here place heavy
weight on the advisory boards and their needs. We don't want to go
in and tell you what to do. We want you to suggest to us what you
need to have done and then we want to support that effort.
MR. NEAL: Well, thank you, and may I comment on that. We
were not trying to be contrary with your recommendations. If you
read the Florida statute about the purpose of CRAs, it definitely says,
in so many words, confine the management of it within the barriers --
boundaries of the CRA. To make it effective that the folks should --
should come from that area. So we weren't trying to say -- we were
going back to what it says.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, it was our fault.
MR. NEAL: I know and I'm not -- yeah, that's okay. But,
again, that created some of the confusion that I addressed to you
earlier why we're here and why we're discussing this.
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June 13, 2003
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And I'm going to ask the staff if they
have any comments in just a moment. But I would like to make one
observation about that. There certainly is good reason to have
control within the boundaries of the CRA itself, and it shouldn't be
done otherwise. But there's a good argument for saying there should
be some opportunity to add to that group, not controlling influence,
but add to that group people who have experience in achieving
results in similar circumstances. Right now if there is no one in your
-- within your boundaries that has not previously managed a CRA,
participated in a CRA, has a track record in redevelopment, we have
little opportunity to do that. And when we have the capability to add
someone who might be a resource to you, I think -- I think we're
doing the right thing.
Now, to try to add people who would dominate it from outside
the boundaries would be totally wrong, and I don't think that the
board has attempted to do that.
MR. NEAL: Fred-- excuse me, Fred, your committee has done
some research on that and, again, I keep referring to Bill, this is a
part-- he and I work as a team on this, and he does address that issue.
There is an amount of flexibility that we have. I just didn't want to
take -- go into all of the details, unless you wanted to ask the
questions, so--
CHAIRMAN COYLE: No.
MR. NEAL: -- I hope you'll give Bill some time to explain his
position.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Give staff a chance to see if they have
any questions or comments.
MR. BLAIR: One of the things -- Aaron Blair, for the record,
Urban Design Planner in the Community Redevelopment section.
Again, with all the confusion, one of the things, this whole
amendment that you got, and we apologize that this got to you last
Wednesday, but most of this whole packet that came to you last
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June 13, 2003
Wednesday is because -- is from the fact that -- of when you guys
asked to change the membership of their board, so we had to throw
this together to support your member -- your request coming down
from you, so that's where this came down. I didn't want you to think
that we were trying to confuse you because we weren't. We were just
trying to follow your direction. But for everything else, we don't
disagree with anything that's being said so far, and we think
everything is going in the correct direction.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Very well. Bill Mears.
MR. MEARS: Good morning. My name is Bill Mears. I'm a
member of the Bayshore/Gateway, Triangle Gateway CRA Advisory
Board. And let me -- I'm supposed to be talking about the
composition of the advisory board before we get into some of the
earlier interests, so I'll take some of my material and use it outside
them.
The -- the Florida statutes includes two sections that deal with
the organization of a CRA. Now, that's got nothing to do with the
advisory board. The advisory board is strictly a recreation of the
Board of County Commissioners at the time that this super CRA was
developed. Under section 163.356 the creation of a community
redevelopment agency essentially calls on the Board of County
Commissioners or the governing body, whatever the oversight body
is, to appoint a CRA consisting of citizens and they're to be citizens
of the affected area. It gives the number of citizens and various other
rules, but that's the first option for forming the CRA itself, not an
advisory board.
Second comes -- is 163.357, and this is the governing body as
the community redevelopment agency. And this provides that the
governing body or the Board of County Commissioners is free to
appoint itself to be the CRA, and I would point out that this section
also provides that the governing body can then appoint two
additional members to the CRA who would be residents or business
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June 13, 2003
owners in the affected area. And the law is very clear on that
restriction that the Board itself is to retain -- is to comprise only
individuals in the affected area. It also provides that you're free to
hire technical advisors or bring in advisors who are used to county
services or other government services, but the CRA and its unique
staff are supposed to be focused strictly on the blighted area as it's
called.
So, anyway, I think that answers that question. The advisory
board itself appears to be a creation of the Collier County Board of
County Commissioners to attempt to straddle the line to keep the
control with the Board of County Commissioners, but to still have
local -- strong local input in the process. But, in the bylaws of the
advisory board in the first section of it, actually section three, sorry,
of article one, it says that each advisory board is intended to be the
primary source of community input, and then goes through a number
of other items, but closes by saying for the area of operation of the
advisory board.
So those are my comments. Now, my purpose on the agenda is
to talk about the issue of the number in composition of the actual
advisory board, which is separate and distinct from what we talked
about earlier. What we're talking about earlier is the makeup of the
CRA board, the actual authority over the redevelopment area. Now,
we're going to talk about our advisory board which advises you as
the CRA board.
Now, our advisory board recommends expanding its
membership to nine individuals from seven by amending article two,
section 5-G of the amended advisory board bylaws to read three at
large representative who reside or engage in business or both in the
Bayshore/Gateway Triangle Redevelopment area.
The purpose of this change is to permit greater community
participation in our deliberations and recommendations and to
provide greater continuity of membership.
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June 13, 2003
One of the problems that's been noted is right now people come
on and go off, and if not annual, it's certainly biannual, and there's a
long learning curve that's involved in getting used to all of these
issues.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Here, you need a glass of water.
MR. MEARS: Yeah, I'm getting choked up by this.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You want some, Bill.'?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Now, that's going to encourage him to
talk some more.
MR. MEARS: Now I'll be able to talk faster. Membership in
the advisory board was discussed at our April and May meetings, and
the board recommended the changes here as a result of our inability
to recommend for membership on the board, I've forgotten whether
it's one or two of our area residents who duplicated filled roles that
are in the bylaws. And so we could not recommend them for
membership. So what we did was to suggest that we add two
additional members at large from the CRA area, and then that would
permit us to, you know, just basically have more people in the
process.
Now, on May 13th, the CRA took action to open the
membership in the advisory board to individuals who are not-- who
are neither residents nor owners in the redevelopment area, and we
understand the motivation for it, which we can appreciate, but it's our
belief that the advisory board is a community based source of advice
for the CRA, not a technical professional board of advice. The
makeup of the committee is recommended to include different
professions, which is a good idea, but our purpose is to provide
community input and community opinion, rather than technical
expertise. And we have a number of reasons for doing that. First of
which is that the one that I've already noted in article one, section
three, if that's the purpose of the board, is to provide community
input from the area of operation of the advisory board.
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June 13, 2003
Secondly, the -- we exist strictly for the benefit of our local
area, and you will note that this orientation is reinforced in article
two, section three of the bylaws, which point out that the advisory
board members are to be appointed by the CRA board member for
the applicable area. Again, this specialization and focus on the area
comes in. Section 163.3352, which is the first sort of, I guess, the
introductory section of the CRA chapter notes the importance of the
cooperation, voluntary actions of the owners and tenants of property
in the area as one of the foundations of the program.
And then, finally, is the point that I've already covered, which is
under the -- that there are two organizing statutes that could be
followed, and in each case all of the appointed members of a CRA,
whether it's under section 163.356 or whether it's the two additional
members under 163.357 are required to be members who reside or
are engaged in business within the area.
And so that's it for that agenda item.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Are you finished, Bill?
MR. MEARS: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Any questions from staff?.
MR. BLAIR: No, if you're ready, we can move down the
agenda.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: What I'd like to do is ask our attorney if
he agrees with the assessment of the statute requirements?
MR. WHITE: Patrick White, Assistant County Attorney. Yes,
Mr. Chairman, I believe that the presentation is accurate with respect
to what the statute sets forth. There's some detail that may be
germane to the discussion as we move along, but we'll have to wait
and see what direction you'd like to go.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Very well. Is the public input
appropriate to this particular issue, or one of the other agenda items?
MS. FILSON: Well, they're wishing to speak on A, B and C.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. All right. Very well. We'll
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June 13, 2003
move to 4-A, which is a proposal to approve the addition of at large
members to the Bayshore/Gateway Triangle Redevelopment
Advisory Board and all necessary by-laws amendments. This goes
directly to the issue that was just discussed by Mr. Mears. Any comments from the board? Okay.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I make a motion that we approve
the addition of two additional people on the board.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: That live within the area?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: That live within the area, yes.
'COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: That is not the proposal. We would
have to modify that proposal, but if-- okay. We have a motion. Do
we have a second?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Fiala, second.
Any discussion?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, I just wanted to say, excuse
me, that the reason that I added and Commissioner Halas agreed with
that these people live within the area is exactly what this advisory
board is asking they want the people to live within the area. And so I
think that we should follow their recommendations. This is their
board.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: That's right.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any further discussion.
MR. WHITE: Just for the purpose of clarity, Mr. Chairman, we
would revise the bylaws and present you with a slightly revised
resolution adopting those bylaw changes, the nature of which would
be to add, to create three at large members within the
Bayshore/Gateway.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Where is three?
MR. WHITE: There's one already --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: There's one already and then you have
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June 13, 2003
two others that they want to add.
MR. WHITE: Okay. You're desire -- I guess the point of
clarification from my perspective is to increase the membership by
two more, or to just allow the existing membership to be
compromised of three at large members, if that's --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I believe the intent of the motion was to
accept the recommendation of the advisory board members and their
presentation today to expand it by an additional two to give a total of
three, and that's in modification of the -- of the proposal that is before
us this morning, right?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes.
MR. WHITE: That was always the key issue is the total
number, and it's nine. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: All right. All in favor --
MS. FILSON: Do you want to hear from the speakers before
you call the motion.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Let's hear from the speakers.
MS. FILSON: Chuck Gunther, and he will be followed by
Sharon King.
MR. GUNTHER: Chuck Gunther. Living in Freedom Triangle
here known as the Bayshore or Gateway Triangle. When this CRA
began, before it began, there was a lot of talk like this and that. One
of the things that came up was that Debra Pressnet was very strong
that the CRA should be elected officials. And we -- at first I thought
this was the worst thing I ever heard of. I says why should we have
County Commissioners also as a CRA. Now there's one board
answering to another board. It would just be a rubber stamp.
Since then I think I've almost kind of swayed back and forth on
that in the way it works. Comprising the advisory board, I think the
composition of the advisory board is up to the CRA. It's the way I
feel, and I think it's the way the 1633 says, and that's a state
resolution that kind of lays that out. It could be comprised any way.
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June 13, 2003
I think the one thing it should have, though, it should be people from
the area that's affected. And that's what we're trying to do. What we
had suggested -- I had suggested when we said if we took somebody
from outside, I said, fine, but that would be as a technical expertise,
maybe, as you're saying. But if we did that, make them a non-voting
member; that is, they can sit on the board too, fine. I think the main
thing we have to remember with this, though, is an advisory board is
just that, only an advisory. And I think it has to stay that way. The
dog, or the tail should not wag the dog. And in the same point of
view, though, I don't want to see this CRA, if it ever were to happen,
it's strange when it's the same board. I'd hate to see the CRA turn
around and go against what the board would want and the BCC. As
the same people, that's hard to happen. That's where diversity kind of
helps in a way. That's what I was afraid of in the beginning. But
sometimes diversity is good, because that gives the attention back
and forth to where things work out. A lot of this right now, I think, is
working things out. This is still a new process. I think even in the
state it's still a new process, even though there are a lot of CRA's
around now. It's still basically a process -- it's a working process
that's going on, and it's a learning process for everybody, and nobody
knows a definitive yes or no to anything. We're working to see what,
basically, what we can get away with, what we can't get away with.
When this all started the triangle did not want to be in it. We were
told at first we'd be separate. We should be a separate CRA from
anybody else. When it was finally formed, without us even knowing,
without us having any say at all, we were included with Bayshore.
We didn't want that. We still don't want that. That's the way it
happened. I guess we have to live with it.
Personally, I'd like to see the whole thing just split off and be
separate, but that's -- it's history now.
As far as new members for the advisory board, I think no matter
what you have as long as there's an unequal amount, it's fine. It's just
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June 13, 2003
like any other board, you don't want to have equal -- you don't want
to have, like, an even number, because you don't get a good vote
then. I think if we do have more members, I think the amount set for
a quorum should be set differently, if you have more members. I
think that's important. A quorum should not be held down low when
you have more members. That's not the idea of more members in a
board. That's a good way to stack a board, and that's -- we don't want
that. We want it to be even.
One of the problems that the Triangle sees with at large
members is if we have at large members, how do we evenly place
them so that we have Bayshore members and triangle members.
That's going to be a hard part, because it's going to be real hard to do,
at large means at large. So that's going to be a little hard to kind of
delineate there. As far as -- we went to the breakdown of the CRA, I
see a problem no matter which way it is, whether it's the same
members as the BCC or different members. I think no matter what it
is, there's going to be some contention here and there, everywhere.
Fine. That's government at work. We're going to have fights back
and forth, and that's why we have people that get up and will work on
advisory boards.
That's basically what I have to say. I'd like to see it all work
out, but just make it fair.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Thank you very much.
Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, just one comment, and that is,
as far as the composition goes you wanted to make sure it doesn't
swing too heavy on one side or the other, what we've done as a board
is that we asked you, or we are asking you whenever there are people
that apply to give us your recommendation. We don't want to tell
you what you're going to do. We want your recommendation, and if,
for instance, there's one position open, three people apply, and the
board -- your advisory board feels that none of them qualify, you can
Page 24
June 13, 2003
also give us that recommendation, so that we go back to the drawing
board and readvertise, because we do want the board to -- the
advisory board to represent the people you want.
MR. GUNTHER: Yeah, we had one member -- one
non-member right now has stated he'd like to become a member. We
figure by the set up we have now would be -- well, we're short one
member for a business member on Davis Boulevard, but we have a
member that's -- or we have a citizen who's not -- doesn't have a
business on Davis, he has a business actually on Linwood. He owns
property all over the Triangle. We could say -- and what it says in
our bylaws is it doesn't really have to be from that, it's either that --
that's the best case scenario is to have somebody from the business,
you know, in the Davis Boulevard area.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, we'll look to you guys to give
us a recommendation.
MR. GUNTHER: Yeah, good. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thank you very much.
Next speaker.
MS. FILSON: Next speaker is Sharon King.
MS. KING: Sharon King. I'm a member of the CRA advisory
board, and also live in the CRA area. My comments were to support
the CRA advisory board recommendation on item 4-A. I support the
motion made by Commissioner Halas and seconded by
Commissioner Fiala, and feel no other comment is necessary.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Thank you very much. Okay.
Now, we were in the middle of a vote, weren't we.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes, we were.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: All in favor.
COMMISSIONER HALAS:
COMMISSIONER FIALA:
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye
COMMISSIONER HENNING:
Aye.
Aye.
Aye.
Page 25
June 13, 2003
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye
CHAIRMAN COYLE: All opposed, like sign. Unanimously
approved. I have a question that I'd like to see if the members could
answer for me, either now or sometime in the future, how do we
allocate time and resources between Bayshore improvements and
mini Triangle improvements. But the biggest impediment so far to
beginning the Triangle improvement has been trying to do something
with the mini Triangle, and that hasn't moved anywhere. And I
would like to have an understanding of whether one of the reasons
for that is that -- that there might not be equal emphasis on both, and
so the question -- the question then is -- do you want to split out from
Immokalee? Do you also want to split out the triangle development
from Bayshore. And I don't think that's a question, unless you've got
all of the answers right off the top of your head right now, it's not a
question we might not want to get into today. But it would be very
important to me in understanding the ultimate organizational
structure for the CRA, and since we're leaving the organizational
issue on the agenda, that is, we're leaving the agenda item that relates
to organizational issues, I would like to see if the board is interested
in providing staff, both legal staff and planning staff, with guidance
to work with Mr. Neal and members of the advisory committee to
develop an organizational structure that clearly places the CRA under
the control of the residents and takes it out of the area of domination
by County Commissioners.
Is there an interest in the board to do that?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm sorry, Fred--
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. What I'm really saying is Mr.
Neal has made the proposal that we reduce the membership on the
CRA from essentially five Commissioners to three Commissioners,
and my proposal is why have Commissioners on it at all, and why not
let the community decide how they manage it, what
recommendations they wish to make to the board. We'll get our shot
Page 26
June 13, 2003
when it comes to the board.
So, I mean, it's exactly the same way that we do almost every
other advisory board. We don't dominate any advisory board to my
knowledge. I could be mistaken. But we don't have majority vote on
any of the advisory boards, and if we're not required to legally, Mr.
White, then I would propose we not do so.
MR. WHITE: As I mentioned earlier, Mr. Chairman, there are a
couple of small points that are important for you to understand as a
body and that is that the BCC as the governing body in the County
under 163.356 3-C, must determine the CRA members, and you can
appoint them as anyone who otherwise meets the test, generally
anybody who does business or owns property in the CRA areas, but
the Board of County Commissioners must determine from those
members who the Chair and Vice-chair of that CRA will be.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
MR. WHITE: That's probably it. The rest of the things are
more discretionary under the statute, but certainly one way that the
BCC could control the events that take place from the CRA is
through the appropriation of funding, at least in its initial set up and
as it moves through time for various projects.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Good. Thank you. So in
summary and for clarification, I'm not proposing that we try to add
something to the agenda and make a decision on the fly right now.
I'm merely suggesting that we ask the staff and the CRA advisory
board, absent our direct involvement, to give to us recommendations
about the ultimate organization of the CRA itself, so that it is not
dominated by a majority of Collier County Commissioners, and that
way, I think, it will remove us from what I perceive to be a potential
conflict, and put us in the role we really should be in, which is
oversight and final fiduciary responsibility with respect to approval
and allocation of funds. Is there -- do I see three nods?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: You got a nod from me.
· Page 27
June 13, 2003
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: How is this different from what
we're doing right now?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Well, right now we all are the CRA,
and what I've heard the members say is that they think that they're
probably too many of us here, because we're the CRA --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Right. I understand that.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And then we turn right around and
we're the board, and it's a duplication of responsibility, I guess, and
what they are suggesting, and what I'm suggesting is we don't sit on
the board, maybe we have one person sit on this CRA, and the CRA,
then, becomes community representative, plus maybe a County
Commissioner's liaison, can be voting or nonvoting, but I still have a
bit of a problem with that, because I'm probably alone, but I still see
a sunshine law problem with respect to involvement in a committee
that is recommending decisions to be made to themselves. And I
really have a problem with that, and I, quite frankly, would like to be
extracted from it.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Mr. Chairman, I agree with you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Did I answer your question, or
did I just confuse it more?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, I get what you're saying.
The only thing is is we've got two unique situations, two different
boards, and Immokalee is working fine. There isn't a problem in the
world. They like what they got. I don't want to upset the apple cart.
I think if the problem just exists with this one, maybe we can revamp
the board so it will meet the needs. I'd love to leave Immokalee out
of this one.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Oh, I think we have to because we
haven't asked them yet. But I'm just dealing with this one right now,
and I wouldn't --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, whatever you think is
best for that particular one, because you work for them, I'll go along
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June 13, 2003
with it.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I don't want to get caught in the same
problem we're in right now by making a decision about Immokalee
without asking them about it. So I would suggest we not do anything
different with Immokalee until such time as we wish to ask them for
their input.
COMMISSIONER Coletta: I appreciate that.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. Just one fast question that I
have a little confusion on, would the CRA advisory board have
different buffers than the CRA. There's where my confusion lies. If
the CRA advisory board also becomes the CRA, then they're just the
same --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It duplicates their function.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: So it would have to be five
different people than the CRA advisory board.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I think we're talking about having it one
in the same.
You'll have to come to the microphone, Bill.
MR. NEAL: Excuse me. To clarify and certainly to help Mr.
Coletta, this would essentially eliminate the necessity of an advisory
board. Your CRA would be the one that reports to the BCC. The
CRA would hire the necessary people to make it function properly.
It would be a totally different organization, which is not unsimiliar to
a lot of the other CRA's.
So, in answer to your question, the advisory committee goes
away under the scenario that you're talking about. It's more than we
could've hoped for that you would address this morning. We were
trying to include the balance with the County Commissioners, maybe
that was self-serving, and I hope not. But what you've seen is the big
picture of what is really necessary for the proper function of a CRA
in this area.
Page 29
June 13, 2003
And we all do appreciate that.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It's just that we're so perceptive.
MR. NEAL: Well, I will tell you, it's the information that you
get that makes you so perceptive.
MR. MEARS: Commissioner Coletta, try and understand what
you're -- the fact is that functionally under this setup the Immokalee
operation would be exactly the way it is. It's just that when it came
down here to report to somebody, it would report directly to the
BCC, cc rather than to the BCC as the CRA. Your committee would
be the CRA.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: If I may, Mr. White is there --
is this doable?
MR. WHITE: I've looked through the statutes, Commissioner,
and I certainly know that it's possible to create one CRA board, other
than the Board of County Commissioners, between five to, I believe,
seven members. I'm not sure, though, that you can have more than
one CRA board in the county. I've worked with CRA's in other
jurisdictions but, of course, that wasn't an issue.
So I'd like the opportunity to look at it a little further, but
certainly what's being discussed is that, at least as I understand it,
there'd be the need to have apparently two CRAs.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's correct.
MR. WHITE: And I'm not sure that that's entirely permissible.
It may very well be, but I'm reviewing the statute on-line as we talk,
but it's --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Opposed to one CRA that
would be working in combination with everything. I'll tell you what,
in Immokalee, they appreciate the ability to be able to act on their
own. If you start scrambling it together, and they have to travel 40
miles.
Attend to a meeting here, uh-uh.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Well, that's the reason I'm suggesting
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June 13, 2003
this be sent to staff and that --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'll go with that.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It's merely a direction to the staff and to
the lawyer and to the CRA's themselves to give us recommendations
on how they'd like to see this done, and then we can iron out those
legal details to see if it's even possible.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. If we can improve upon
what we've got, I'm all for it, but I'll tell you right now, it's working
very well in Immokalee.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Good. I think I had three nods
on this issue.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Good. Everybody understand?
Okay. You have a question?
MR. COHEN: Randy Cohen, community redevelopment
manager. I just wanted to concur with Mr. White, as well. In my
experience with CRAs, I have similar concerns, and I feel it's best
that we go back and plannirig staff meets with legal. And I'd also
recommend that the advisory board place it on their agenda at one of
their next regular meetings and we can discuss it there, as well.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Thank you very much.
. COMMISSIONER COLETTA: One last note, if I may?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Sure. Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: If we get down to the point that
we're agreeing to go with one CRA, at that point in time, I think it's
only fair that we hold half of the meetings in Immokalee. Just to
make you aware of the fact, if I'm going to ask them to do this, and
they're going to travel 40 miles, it's only fair at the next meeting you
travel the 40 miles.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Right.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No, I'm just trying to give you
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June 13, 2003
a blessing. You're going to love Immokalee. We've got great
restaurants. We've got a lot of entertainment.
MR. NEAL: My focus is on Bayshore/Gateway, and I really
don't know -- I'm sure you guys do a wonderful job.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you. I'm sure you do,
too.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: All right. Thank you very much.
You're speaking on the next topic, right.
MR. GUNTHER: The topic under discussion?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: You already did that?
MR. GUNTHER: No. I spoke on 4-A. This motion -- this
discussion is included under 4-C.
MR. WHITE: We're not to that yet.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: You're registered for this item?
MR. GUNTHER: Yes.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: The upcoming item?
MS. FILSON: He's registered for all three of them.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Please come to the podium.
MS. FILSON: Okay. Sharon King.
MS. KING: Okay. Sharon King. Thank you for allowing this.
Also a member of the CRA advisory board, the discussion that you're
having and that Aaron has suggested and Randy has suggested that
we have in our advisory board meeting, we have held those
discussions. Let me comment with Bill that we're really happy that
you're also having these discussions at this time. This is something
that we have felt the need to respond to for some time. I'm in
agreement with Commissioner Coletta that I do feel that there should
be two separate CRA, boards, one for the Bayshore/Gateway and one
for Immokalee.
Also, we had discussed in our meetings in the advisory board
that the two Commissioners that represent the CRA district should be
possibly included in the CRA, but it would not be a requirement, as
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June 13, 2003
you see there could be some conflict there. But that the CRA board
be made up of people from that area, and then the CRA board would
come in front of the Board of County Commissioners, rather than
duplicating, as you said, the issues that we're currently duplicating.
You're hearing them at one sitting, and, you know, they should be
brought to you at one time from the board's recommendations.
And then I also agree with Bill Neal that with the addition of
this CRA board comprised of community people, this would no
longer be the need for the advisory board. The CRA would answer,
make recommendations directly to the board. And that's the
discussions that we've held in our advisory board, and that's basically
the conclusion that we've reached and because of that, you're going
to see an item on the agenda, 4-C come up before you that represents
this reflection and input that we've had at these board meetings.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thank you. Is that the last public
speaker on this -- that item?
MS. FILSON: Mr. Gunther, did you wish to speak on this item?
They're all registered for all items.
MR. GUNTHER: The only thing I have to say there is if we do
away with the advisory board, one of the reasons for the advisory
board is to have input from the neighborhood that's involved. If you
make an advisory board the board, it's not going to make people in
the neighborhoods very happy, because I think you're talking about
gentrification here and people don't like. That's as simple as it is.
And that's the way it's going to happen. It's the way it's going to
sound. It sounded that way all along, nobody likes it. I think you
should keep it, basically, the way it is right now. I think it will work
that way. There's going to be some bumps and some little hurdles to
go over. I think it'll work out, though. That's all.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Thank you. No more public
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June 13, 2003
speakers on this item?
MS. FILSON: No, sir.
Item #4B
SITE IMPROVEMENT GRANT AGREEMENTS BETWEEN THE
COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY AND GRANT
APPLICANTS WITHIN THE BAYSHORE/GATEWAY
TRIANGI~E RFDFJVF, IJOPMFNT ARF, A-APPROVFD
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Then we will move to item B to
approve and execute the site improvement grant agreements between
the community redevelopment agency and grant applicants within the
Bayshore/Gateway Triangle redevelopment area. Aaron.
MR. BLAIR: It's pretty straight foreword, and I'm guessing we
kind of got to hurry because I think you have another meeting.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah.
MR. BLAIR: But that's pretty straight forward. It's just
agreements that we have between our site improvement grant
applicants, which you've already approved all that. We just have to
execute the agreements between them so that we can make sure that
they get their funding that's needed for their improvement.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And I'd like to make a motion to
approve, being that the advisory board and Planning Services
Department all recommend the same thing. I offer a motion to
approve.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Motion by Commissioner Fiala. Is
there a second?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Second by Commissioner Halas. All in
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June 13, 2003
favor, aye -- I'm sorry. Is there any discussion?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Move it along.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: All in favor say, aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye
No discussion.
Item #4C
CREATION OF AN EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR POSITION TO
MANAGE THE BUSINESS OF THE BAYSHORE/GATEWAY
TRIANGLE REDEVELOPMENT AREA-CONTINUED TO THE
NEXT CRA MEETING SCHEDULED FOR THE SECOND WEEK
IN SFPTEMlqFR-APPROVFD
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And opposed, like sign. Unanimous
approval. Item C, to approve the creation of an executive director
position to manage the business of the Bayshore/Gateway Triangle
Redevelopment area.
MR. BLAIR: Okay. This one has -- we added an amended
executive summary in the packet that you got on Wednesday, if you
don't have one, I got a bunch of them here. They're basically
Planning Services made a recommendation in the first executive
summary that you got last week, but after more discussion within our
Planning Services Department, there was a decision made that these
are policy issues, that really it would be best -- it would serve you
better if we would layout some options for you to make the decision
on how to serve the redevelopment area, and that's within this
executive summary, if you don't have it, again, I'll turn it to the page
and bring it to you. And, basically, you would just look through the
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June 13, 2003
four options, and I'm sure they want to speak on this issue, also.
MR. WHITE: I'd just point out, Mr. Chairman, that under the
statute it appears that the executive director position would be
employed by the CRA, not one of the local redevelopment advisory
bodies, such that they would, in essence, under our present structure
work for this body, the CRA, and it would be an executive director
that would work not just solely for Bayshore/Gateway, but could also
work for Immokalee, as those are the two areas we have.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Here's my problem with making a
decision on that today, we haven't decided what the organizational
structure is going to be yet. We haven't decided if we're going to be
able to split one out from the other. We haven't decided whether or
not we can have one CRA or two CRAs. I think it is premature,
although I like the concept, to make a decision today on an executive
director for an organization structure that we -- of which we are
uncertain. And that's my observation. Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is the position -- proposed
position coming out of the CRA, or ad valorem taxes?
MR. BLAIR: For options two, three and four, would all be
funded from the Bayshore/Gateway CRA funds. Option one, which
remains status quo, which they fund one-third and Immokalee funds
one-third of the position, which is actually my position, for work
involved with their products.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And a third and a third, and the
other third is?
MR. BLAIR: It comes out of the -- from the regular County
Commission funds.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It would come from general
fund County-wide MSTU, parks and Rec, Sheriff's department.
Good. Okay.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Could I make a suggestion for the board
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June 13, 2003
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I think we should put this on
continuance.
CHAIRMAN COYLE:
to suggest.
Yes, exactly. That's what I was going
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Why don't we continue this --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: There's a motion to continue it by
Commissioner Halas. Is there a second?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Second by Commissioner Fiala. Any
disc -- you have speakers. Okay. Then we have speakers on this
item.
MS. FILSON: Mr. Gunthei'.
MR. WHITE: And while the speaker is coming up, Mr.
Chairman, if the motion maker would consider a time certain,
whether it's the next CRA meeting, or whatever, that will help.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: You know, if the speakers are
opposed to the action the board is going to take, please come
forward. But we're going to hear this in another CRA meeting. So
it's your choice to speak now or later.
MS. KING: I would speak later. I was just going to show
support once again for separating the CRA from Immokalee to the
Bayshore/Gateway. And then also support the addition of an
executive director. At this point, you know, we're trying to remake
the same that we're doing now, and an executive director would be
helpful to us during this period as a CRA, because we could use his
expertise and his ability to present probably a bigger picture and
better picture and a more thorough --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I think where we're going right now is
we're going to -- we're going to postpone that decision until such
time that we can decide upon the organizational structure.
MS. KING: I'm in agreement.
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June 13, 2003
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And then at that point in time, we can
debate that issue.
MS. KING: Thank you.
MS. FILSON: And Mr. Gunther.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Chuck, I don't think-- Chuck's waving.
MR. NEAL: I cannot disagree with your decision.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Name for the record, sir.
MR. NEAL: Thank you. My name is plain old Bill Neal. Still
your same chairman. Still trying to get acquainted with all you-all.
We struggled for nearly two and a half years to try and get our
CRA kicked off. We've talked about an executive director at every
meeting. We've concluded it is necessary under whatever format
we'll be able to discuss. The only thing I would encourage you, Mr.
Chairman, to do is to ask staff and the legal department to help us
very quickly form this organization the way we've talk about. So we
can get on with our business. I don't want to be critical, but every
time we get involved in one of these things to decide, it takes six,
eight months, a year to ever get something done. So if you just
encourage staff and legal to have it like a 90-day project, or
something like that, I'm not putting it -- but this is a matter of
importance for us to get this thing working.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah. That's the purpose of the
suggestion that this be a time certain.
So when is the next proposed meeting of the CRA?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Next year.
MR. BLAIR: They come up whenever necessary.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Let's make it September. Okay.
Is that okay. First or second meeting in September? How much
time do you need?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, actually we do it before the
MTO meeting, right?
MR. BLAIR: Right.
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June 13, 2003
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah. So that would be, what, the
second week in September?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: All right. We'll do it the second week
in September, and we'll expect to have those recommendations for
organization and all that sort of stuff worked out at that time so we
can make a final decision.
Okay. Any further discussion on that item?
Okay. All in favor please signify by saying, aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye
CHAIRMAN COYLE: All opposed by like sign. Carried
unanimously.
Is there any other business to be brought before us. No public
speakers?
MS. FILSON: No, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Very well. Then we are adjourned.
Thank you very much for your time.
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June 13, 2003
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 9:41 a.m.
COLLIER COUNTY COMMUNITY
REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
Fred Coyle, Chairman
DWIGHT'E. BROCK, CLERK
Attest a~ ~
These minutes approved by the Board on
as presented ~/ or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT
REPORTING SERVICE, INC. BY DAWN MCCONNELL
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