BCC Minutes 06/10/2003 RJune 1 O, 2003
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, June 10, 2003
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special district as has been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN:
Tom Henning
Frank Halas
Donna Fiala
Fred W. Coyle
Jim Coletta
ALSO PRESENT:
Jim Mudd, County Manager
Ramiro Manalich, Assistant County Attorney
Jim Mitchell, Office of the Clerk of Court
Page 1
COLLIER COUNTY
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
AGENDA
June 10, 2003
9:00 a.m.
Tom Henning, Chairman, District 3
Donna Fiala, Vice-Chair, District 1
Frank Halas, Commissioner, District 2
Fred W. Coyle, Commissioner, District 4
Jim Coletta, Commissioner, District 5
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON ANY AGENDA ITEM MUST
REGISTER PRIOR TO SPEAKING. SPEAKERS MUST REGISTER WITH THE COUNTY
MANAGER PRIOR TO THE PRESENTATION OF THE AGENDA ITEM TO BE
ADDRESSED.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 99-22 REQUIRES THAT ALL LOBBYISTS SHALL,
BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED
TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH
THE CLERK TO THE BOARD AT THE BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS
DEPARTMENT.
REQUESTS TO ADDRESS T HE BOARD O N SUBJECTS WHICH ARE NOT O N T HIS
AGENDA MUST BE SUBMITTED IN WRITING WITH EXPLANATION TO THE COUNTY
MANAGER AT LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF THE MEETING AND WILL BE
HEARD UNDER "PUBLIC PETITIONS".
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED
A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY
NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE,
WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE
APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
ALL REGISTERED PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL RECEIVE UP TO FIVE (5) MINUTES
UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY ACCOMMODATION IN
ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING, YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST
TO YOU, TO THE PROVISION OF CERTAIN ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE
COLLIER COUNTY FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT LOCATED AT 3301
EAST TAMIAMI TRAIL, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112, (239) 774-8380; ASSISTED
LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN THE
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' OFFICE.
LUNCH RECESS SCHEDULED FOR 12:00 NOON TO 1:00 P.M.
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June 10, 2003
1. INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
A. Dr. Rupert Balfour, Golden Gate Seventh Day Adventist Church
2. AGENDA AND MINUTES
A. Approval of today's regular, consent and summary agenda as amended. (Ex
Parte Disclosure provided by Commission members for summary agenda.)
B. May 13, 2003- Regular
C. May 15, 2003 - Town Hall Meeting
D. May 20, 2003 - Workshop
E. May 20, 2003 - LDC Special
3. SERVICE AWARDS
4. PROCLAMATIONS
A. Proclamation to recognize Ken Pineau, Collier County Emergency
Management Director, for his services and contributions to Collier County.
5. PRESENTATIONS
A. A report to the Board of County Commissioners on the results of an employee
"Ethics Audit". (Jean Merritt, Director, Human Resources)
6. PUBLIC PETITIONS
Aw
Public Petition request by Mr. David A. McEIvain to discuss Vanderbilt Beach
Beautification MSTU; Carroll Point Petition for removal from district
boundaries.
7. BOARD OFZONING APPEALS
8. ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS
Continued from the May 27, 2003 BCC Meetin.q. An Ordinance of Collier
County, Florida, to protect against hazards from substandard construction in
public right-of-way; providing purpose and definitions; adoption of
construction standards handbook; requiring permits; requiring removal of
offending material from right-of-way; repealing Ordinance No. 82-91, as
amended by Ordinance 89-26, as amended by Ordinance 93-64; providing rule
of construction of this ordinance; providing for conflict and severability,
providing for penalties; providing an effective date.
This item to be heard at 10:30 a.m. Approve the Goodland Water Sub-District
Rate Study and adopt a Resolution increasing the Goodland Water Sub-
District Rates, which is Schedule Two of Appendix A to Section Four of the
Collier County Ordinance No. 2001-73, providing delayed effective dates. (Jim
DeLony, Administrator, Public Utilities)
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June 10, 2003
9. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
A. Appointment of members to the Revenue Commission.
B. Appointment of members to the Livingston Road
Advisory Committee.
Beautification
MSTU
C. Appointment of member to the Collier County Citizens Corps.
D. Appointment of members to the Value Adjustment Board.
Continued from the May 27, 2003 BCC Meetinq. Recommendation that the
Board of County Commissioners indicate intent to renegotiate and approve a
County Attorney Employment Agreement with County Attorney David W.
Weigel.
10. COUNTY MANAGER'S REPORT
This item to be heard at 11:30 a.m. Presentation by the South Florida Water
Management District regarding roads in Southern Golden Gate Estates. (Pam
Mac'Kie, South Florida Water Management District)
Approve Collier County's participation in the Florida Tax Amnesty Program
July 1 through October 31, 2003 covering Local Option Tourist Development
Taxes. (Jack Wert, Tourism Director, and Commissioner Henning)
C. This item not to be heard later than 1:00 p.m. Legislative update presented to
the Board of County Commissioners. (Keith Arnold, Arnold and Blair)
Recommendation to Adopt a Supplemental Bond Resolution authorizing the
Issuance by the Collier County Water-Sewer District of its (1) Collier county
Water-Sewer District Taxable Water and Sewer Refunding Revenue Bonds,
Series 2003A, in the aggregate principal amount of not exceeding $15,000,000
in order to provide for the refunding of a portion of the District's outstanding
Taxable Water and Sewer Refunding Revenue Bonds, Series 1994A, and (2)
Collier County Water-Sewer District Water and Sewer Refunding Revenue
Bonds, Series 2003B, in the aggregate principal amount of not exceeding
$40,000,000 in order to provide for the refunding of a portion of the District's
Outstanding Water and Sewer Refunding Revenue Bonds, Series 1994B.
(Mike Smykowski, Director, Office of Management and Budget)
Approve the deferral of a TDC Category "A" Grant Application for the
maintenance placement of sand on Hideaway Beach in the amount of
$600,000. (Joe Schmitt, Administrator, Community Development)
11. PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS
12. COUNTY ATTORNEY'S REPORT
13. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
14. AIRPORT AUTHORITY
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June 10, 2003
15. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
16.
CONSENT AGENDA - All matters listed under this item are considered to be
routine and action will be taken by one motion without separate discussion of
each item. If discussion is desired by a member of the Board, that item(s) will be
removed from the Consent Agenda and considered separately.
A. COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT & ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES
1)
Adoption of Resolution 2003- to approve a land purchasing policy for
the acquisition of environmentally sensitive lands as authorized by the
Conservation Collier Land Acquisition Program.
2) Adoption of Resolution 2003- to approve a target protection area
mailing strategy for the Conservation Collier Land Acquisition Program.
3)
Approval of Selection Committee ranking of firms for contract
negotiations for RFP 03-3504 "Consultant Services for Impact Fee Studies
- Emergency Medical Services".
4)
Approval of Selection Committee ranking of firms for contract
negotiations for RFP 03-3504 "Consultant Services for Impact Fee Studies
- Government Buildings".
5)
Approval of Selection Committee ranking of firms for contract
negotiations for RFP 03-3504 "Consultant Services for Impact Fee Studies
- Library System".
Request to accept an alternate security for that subdivision known as
Glen Eden, Phase Two, and enter into a new construction and
maintenance agreement with the new developer.
7)
Approval by the Board of County Commissioners authorizing submission
of the 2003 Continuum of Care Consolidated Grant Application to the
United States Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD), and
authorizing the Board of County Commissioners to sign the application
on behalf of the County.
8)
Request to accept an alternate security for that subdivision known as
Eden on the Bay, and enter into a new construction and maintenance
agreement with the new developer.
9)
Request to approve for recording the final plat of "Hammock Isles", and
approval of the Standard Form Construction and Maintenance Agreement
and approval of the amount of the Performance Security.
To approve a budget amendment of $25,000 from current planning object
code titled "Other Contractual Services" to the Community
Redevelopment object code entitled "Other Contractual Services" for the
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June 10, 2003
expenditure of monies to prepare a mail-out ballot for dissemination to all
Naples Park Property Owners.
11)
Request for the Board to approve and authorize the Chairman to execute
a Construction and Maintenance Agreement for Whippoorwill Lane
Roadway Improvements (AR-4185) and for the Board to also approve the
Performance Bond attached thereto for the Hold Harmless Indemnification
Agreement.
12) Approve a budget amendment canceling or reducing TDC Category "A"
Projects, in the amount of $3,213,390.84.
13)
Approve the deferral of a TDC Category "A" Grant Application for the
renourishment and replacement of temporary T-Groins on Hideaway
Beach in the amount of $4,577,000.
14) Approve a budget amendment and TDC Category "A" Grant Application
from the City of Naples for sea turtle monitoring in the amount of $7,558.
15)
Approve Tourist Development Category "A" Beach
Renourishment/Maintenance Grant Applications for Fiscal Year 2003/2004
in the amount of $1,463,100.
16) Approve a TDC Category "A" Grant Application for the renourishment of
Vanderbilt, Park Shore and Naples beaches in the amount of $9,000,000.
17) Approve a TDC Category "A" Grant Application for the renourishment of
Marco South Beach in the amount of $600,000.
18)
Approve City of Naples Tourist Development Category "A" Beach
RenourishmentJMaintenance Grant Applications for Fiscal Year 2003~2004
in the amount of $79,756.
19)
Approve a Settlement Proposal for the compromise of a Code
Enforcement lien imposed in Board of County Commissioners v.
Cleveland A. and Carolyn Blocker and payment of $5,000.
20)
Community Redevelopment Agency Board Consent Item: To approve a
budget amendment of $379,046 for the expenditure of funds from Fund
187 BayshoreiGateway Triangle Redevelopment for the Stormwater
Management and Infrastructure Program in the Gateway
Triangle/Stormwater Neighborhood.
B. TRANSPORTATION SERVICES
1)
Request Board approval of installation and landscape maintenance
agreement between WCI Communities, Inc., and Collier County for
beautification on SR 951; request approval of a resolution authorizing the
Board to enter into a landscaping installation and maintenance highway
agreement with the Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) on
behalf of WCI Communities, Inc., and approval of execution of FDOT
Maintenance Agreement.
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June 10, 2003
2)
To enter into a purchase agreement for the acquisition of right-of-way
required for the expansion of Immokalee Road between Collier Boulevard
and 43rd Street Northeast. Fiscal Impact: $396,239.50.
3)
Approve Selection Committee ranking of firms for contract negotiations
for RFP 03-3480 "Fixed Term Professional Environmental Consulting
Services" (estimated dollar amount of contract not to exceed $500,000
annually per form).
4)
Request Board approval of two Local Agency Program (LAP) Agreements
with the Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) and the requisite
resolutions, and approve a budget amendment in the amount of $420,000
to provide additional funds for the Davis Boulevard (SR 84)/Collier
Boulevard (CR-951) Intersection Improvement Project.
5)
6)
Approve Contract Supplemental Agreement No. 4 in the amount of
$830,720 for professional engineering services by Wilson Miller Inc. for
the Santa Barbara/Logan Boulevard four/six-laning from Davis Boulevard
to Pine Ridge Road and the four-laning of Radio Road from Santa Barbara
Boulevard to east of Davis Boulevard at Robin Hood Circle, Collier County
Project No. 62081.
Approve a budget amendment to move $126,000 from the Transportation
Road and Bridge Maintenance Operations Capital Budget to the Operating
Budget for the purchase of lime rock for the remainder of the fiscal year.
7)
Approve a Resolution to allow the County Manager to enter into a Joint
Project Agreement (JPA) with the Florida Department of Transportation
(FDOT) t o provide f or t he completion o f Phase O ne o f t he Countywide
Computerized Traffic Signal System by Collier County.
C. PUBLIC UTILITIES
1)
Adopt a Resolution approving the Satisfaction of Liens for Solid Waste
residential accounts wherein the County has received payment and said
liens are Satisfied in Full for the 1991 Solid Waste Collection and Disposal
Services Special Assessments. Fiscal Impact is $24.00 to record the
liens.
2)
Adopt a Resolution approving the Satisfaction of Liens for Solid Waste
Residential Accounts wherein the County has received payment and said
liens are Satisfied in Full for the 1992 Solid Waste Collection and Disposal
Services Special Assessments. Fiscal Impact is $42.00 to record the
liens.
3)
Adopt a Resolution approving the Satisfaction of Liens for Solid Waste
Residential Accounts wherein the County has received payment and said
liens are Satisfied in Full for the 1993 Solid Waste Collection and Disposal
Services Special Assessments. Fiscal Impact is $48.00 to record the
liens.
4)
Adopt a Resolution approving the Satisfaction of Liens for Solid Waste
Residential Accounts wherein the County has received payment and said
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June 10, 2003
liens are Satisfied in Full for the 1994 Solid Waste Collection and Disposal
Services Special Assessments. Fiscal Impact is $54.00 to record the
liens.
5)
Adopt a Resolution approving the Satisfaction of Liens for Solid Waste
Residential Accounts wherein the County has received payment and said
liens are Satisfied in Full for the 1995 Solid Waste Collection and Disposal
Services Special Assessments. Fiscal Impact is $100.50 to record the
liens.
6)
Adopt a Resolution approving the Satisfaction of Liens for Solid Waste
Residential Accounts wherein the County has received payment and said
liens are Satisfied in Full for the 1996 Solid Waste Collection and Disposal
Services Special Assessments. Fiscal Impact is $135.00 to record the
liens.
7)
Board approval of a budget amendment recognizing positive carry
forward variance in the Water Pollution Control Fund (114) in the amount
of $444,400.
8)
Authorization to execute and record Satisfactions for certain water and/or
sewer impact fee payment agreements. Fiscal impact is $229.50 to record
the Satisfactions.
9)
Approve a contract amendment, under Contract #02-3311, "Fixed Term
Professional Geographic Information System Services (GIS)" for Collier
County, with Wilson Miller Inc., Project 50014, in the amount of $69,600.
10) Approve funding related to revising the Collier County Utilities Standards,
Project 70202, in the amount of $26,000.
11)
Approve Work Order #UC-034 with Douglas N. Higgins, Inc., in the amount
of $543,010 for construction of a 16-inch force main along Collier
Boulevard (CR-951) from Summit Place to Immokalee Road (CR-846),
Project Number 73086.
12)
Approve funding related to raw water booster pumping station reliability
improvements, noise control, and property acquisition in the amount of
$241,000.
13)
Approve the purchase of a 1.65-acre site on Immokalee Road for a
wastewater master pump station at a total cost not to exceed $47,635
(Project No. 73153).
D. PUBLIC SERVICES
1)
Approval of a lease agreement with New York Newco Subsidiary, Inc., for
the installation of a communications tower at Veterans Park for a first
year's income of $35,000.
2) Approve modification to Purchase Order #103221 with J. Roland Lieber
Landscape Architects for Golden Gate Community Center Expansion.
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June 10, 2003
E. ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES
1) Renewal of Bid No. 00-3091, "Fleet Vehicles", with Tamiami Ford Inc., for
three years, at an estimated contract value of $3,600,000.
2) Approve Contract Award for RFP 03-3470 "Network Security Assessment"
(Contract amount of $32,640).
3)
Recommendation to award Bid No. 03-3466, Generator Repair,
Maintenance and Installation, to AAA Generator, Inc., for County-wide
maintenance of equipment in the estimated annual amount of $300,000.
4)
Approve Contract Amendment involving Contract #02-3364, "Livingston
Road from Immokalee Road to Lee County Line", to clarify the language
regarding the accumulation and subsequent release of contractor
retainage.
5) Recommendation to award RFP No. 03-3469, Fire Sprinkler Testing,
Maintenance and Installation. (Estimated value $102,000)
6)
Approval to Award Bid #03-3493 to Vanderbilt Bay Construction Inc., and
to enter into a construction contract in the amount of $1,650,406 for the
construction of the Grey Oaks Public Safety Facility.
7)
Approve a donation between Guy L. Carlton, Collier County Tax Collector,
and Collier County for real property housing the Driver's License Offices
on Airport Road, the cost of which should not exceed $50.
8)
Approval to award Contract #03-3448, Architectural Services, to Harvard
Jolly Clees Toppe Architects, in the amount of $1,859,400, for the design
of the Emergency Operations Center.
9)
Approval of a Budget Amendment to the Group Health and Life Plan to
fund claims payments and to maintain reserve requirements through
September 30, 2003.
F. COUNTY MANAGER
1)
Approve a budget amendment transferring $45,600 from General Fund
Reserves to the Emergency Management Administration Budget for Fiscal
Year 2003.
2)
Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners award Bid
#03-3520 in the amount of $44,800 for purchase and delivery of pine straw
mulch to Forestry Resources Inc.
3)
Approval of a budget amendment to upgrade television broadcast and
presentation capabilities in the Commission Chambers. (Approximate
cost is $190,000)
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June 10, 2003
4)
Approval of a Budget Amendment Report - Budget Amendment #03-348
in the amount of $10,000; #03-349 in the amount of $3,000; and #03-350 in
the amount of $10,000 to pay for water and sewer charges for the
remainder of the fiscal year.
G. AIRPORT AUTHORITY
H. BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
I. MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
1) Miscellaneous items to file for record with action as directed.
J. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
1)
That the Board of County Commissioners make a determination of
whether the purchases of goods and services documented in the detailed
report of open purchase orders serve a valid public purpose and
authorize the expenditure of County funds to satisfy said purchases.
2)
To present to the Board of County Commissioners the State Revenue
Sharing Application for Fiscal Year 2003-2004 and to obtain approval for
the Chairman to sign the application.
3) New precinct boundaries and numbers to reflect Commission District
Boundaries.
K. COUNTY ATTORNEY
1)
Request by the Collier County Industrial Development Authority for
approval of a resolution authorizing the Authority to issue revenue bonds
to be used to finance manufacturing facilities for The March Group LLC
and March, Inc.
2)
Request by the Housing Finance Authority of Collier County for approval
of a resolution authorizing the Authority to issue refunding bonds to be
used to refinance bonds issues in 2000 for Wild Pines of Naples Phase II
Apartments.
3)
Approve the Mediated Settlement Agreement and a Stipulated Final
Judgment to be drafted incorporating the same terms and conditions as
the Mediated Settlement Agreement relative to the acquisition of Parcels
105 and 106 in the Lawsuit styled Collier County v. Faith Bible Church of
Naples, Inc., et a I., Case N o. 9 9-2165-CA ( Immokalee Road, Project N o.
69101).
4)
Approve the Mediated Settlement Agreement and a Stipulated Final
Judgment to be drafted incorporating the same terms and conditions as
the Mediated Settlement Agreement relative to the Acquisition of Parcel
102 in the Lawsuit styled Collier County v. Tree Plateau Co., Inc., et al,
Case No. 03-0519-CA (Immokalee Road, ProJect No. 60018).
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June 10, 2003
5) Authorize application for Tax Deeds for 129 County-held tax certificates
and authorize notice to proceed to the Tax Collector.
6)
Approve a proposed Settlement Agreement providing for Abatement of
Violation and Compromise of Lien in two Code Enforcement Lien
Foreclosures entitled Collier County v. Anthony J. Varano, Case Nos. 99-
4226-CA and 00-3430-CA.
17.
SUMMARY AGENDA - THIS SECTION IS FOR ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS
AND MUST MEET THE FOLLOWING CRITERIA: 1) A RECOMMENDATION FOR
APPROVAL FROM STAFF; 2) UNANIMOUS RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL
BY THE COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION OR OTHER AUTHORIZlNG
AGENCIES OF ALL MEMBERS PRESENT AND VOTING; 3) NO WRITTEN OR ORAL
OBJECTIONS TO THE ITEM RECEIVED BY STAFF, THE COLLIER COUNTY
PLANNING COMMISSION, OTHER AUTHORIZING AGENCIES OR THE BOARD,
PRIOR TO THE COMMENCEMENT OF THE BCC MEETING ON WHICH THE ITEMS
ARE SCHEDULED TO BE HEARD; AND 4) NO INDIVIDUALS ARE REGISTERED TO
SPEAK IN OPPOSITION TO THE ITEM. FOR THOSE ITEMS, WHICH ARE
QUASIJUDICAL IN NATURE, ALL PARTICIPANTS MUST BE SWORN IN.
This item requires that all participants be sworn in and ex parte disclosure be
provided by Commission members. Petition AVPLAT2003-AR3995 to
disclaim, renounce and vacate the County's and the Public's interest in a
portion of the 20 foot wide lake maintenance easement located along the rear
of Lot 2, according to the plat of "Davinci Estates" as recorded in Plat Book
35, Pages 33 through 37, Public Records of Collier County, Florida. Located
in Section 21, Township 48 South, Range 26 East.
This item requires that all participants be sworn in and ex parte disclosure be
provided by Commission members. CU-2003-AR-3730 David A. Titsch, of
Titsch and Associates Architects, Inc., representing East Naples Fire Control
District, requesting Conditional Use 11 of the "C-4" Zoning District to allow a
fire station. The property is located on the southeast corner of Bayshore
Drive and Jeepers Drive, further described as Lot 107, Naples Grove and
Truck Company Little Farms No. 2., in Section 14, Township 50 South, Range
25 East, Collier County, Florida, consisting of 0.63+ acres.
18. ADJOURN
INQUIRIES CONCERNING CHANGES TO THE BOARD'S AGENDA SHOULD BE MADE
TO THE COUNTY MANAGER'S OFFICE AT 774-8383.
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June 10, 2003
June 1 O, 2003
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I call the meeting of the Board of
Commissioners to order. Today is June 10th, 2003. Today we have
Dr. Rupert Balfour from Golden Gate Seventh Day Adventist. He
will be giving our invocation this morning, and to follow that will be
Jose Nunez. He's an intern for the Board of Commissioners assisting
our assistants, and he's also a student from St. John Neumann's High
School. Jose will be leading us in the Pledge of Allegiance. So would you all rise for invocation and the pledge.
DR. BALFOUR: Oh, God, our Father, we thank you for loving
kindness. As we're here, we ask that thou will bless the
commissioners, bless their associates, the men and women who work
for efficient service in this county.
Continue to bless the people of this good state, keep us from
danger, continue to lead our lives. We ask in your name for Christ's
sake. Amen.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN HENN1NG: Ask the county manager if we have
any corrections, additions, deletions to today's agenda.
Item #2A
REGULAR, SUMMARY, AND CONSENT AGENDA-
APPROVED AND/OR ADOPTED WITH CHANGES
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir.
Mr. Chairman, good morning. I call your attention to the
change sheet.
Item 2(E), approval of minutes should read, May 21st, 2003
LDC special, rather than May 20th, 2003, LDC, and that's at the
staff's request.
Second item is move item 16(A)13 to 10(F) to be heard in
conjunction with item 10(E). Also, the second paragraph of
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June 1 O, 2003
considerations in the executive summary should read on this item, the
Coastal Advisory Committee recommended approval of $2.3 million
for the structures portion of this grant application after meeting on
May 8th, 2003.
The hydraulic fill portion of this project was recommended for
consideration in the following budget year. And that move was at
Commissioner Fiala's request.
The next item, move item 16(A)10 to 10(G), to approve a
budget amendment of $25,000 from current planning object code
titled, other contractual services, to the community development (sic)
object code entitled others contractual services for the expenditures
of moneys to prepare a mail-out ballot for dissemination to all Naples
Park property owners, and that move is at Commissioner Halas's
request.
Next item. Item 16(A)20, the board required to approve this
item separately as a community redevelopment agency board, and
that's not to move, but it's just to give recognition to that fact, and
that item it to approve a budget amendment of $379,046 for the
expenditures of fund (sic) from Fund 187, Bayshore/Gateway
Triangle Redevelopment for Stormwater Management Infrastructure
Program in the Gateway Triangle/Stormwater Neighborhood.
Next item. Item 16(B)7 should read, approve a resolution to
allow the chairman of the Board of County Commissioners to enter
into a joint project agreement, in brackets, JPA, with the Florida
Department of Transportation, FDOT, to provide for the completion
of phase one of the county-wide computerized traffic signal system
by Collier County, and that's at staff's request.
Next item. Continue item 16(F)2 to January (sic) 24th, 2003,
BCC meeting. Recommendation for the Board of County
Commissioners to award a bid, number 03-3520 in the amount of
$44,800 for the purpose (sic) and delivery of pine straw mulch to
Forestry Resources, Inc., and that's at the staff's request.
Page 3
June 10, 2003
COMMISSIONER FIALA:
he say January?
COMMISSIONER HALAS:
COMMISSIONER FIALA:
You mean June 24th, right? Didn't
He did.
Okay.
MR. MUDD: I'm sorry, June 24th, 2003.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay.
MR. MUDD: I must be thinking about Christmas.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No, I was listening carefully.
MR. MUDD: Yeah. Thank you, ma'am.
Next item is to move item 16(J)3 to 13(A) to be heard
immediately following item 10(C). New precinct boundaries and
numbers to reflect commission district boundaries, and that's at staff's
request.
Next item, item 16(K)(2). Note a scrivener's error on page two,
paragraph two, of the executive summary. The reference to
Cleveland Clinic is incorrect and the name Wild Pines Apartments
should be in its place. That's at staff's request. But I will let you
know that Commissioner Fiala pointed that out to me yesterday, so
she is definitely on target today.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: There you go.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: She always is.
MR. MUDD: Next item. Continue item 16(K)6 to June 24th,
2003, BCC meeting. Approve a proposed settlement agreement
providing for abatement of violation and compromise of lien in two
code enforcement lien foreclosures entitled Collier County versus
Anthony Varano, case number 99-4226-CA and 00-3430-CA, and
that's at staff's request.
And if we mm the page, we'll just make sure we have the time
certains down.
Item 8(B) will be heard at 10:30.
Item 10(A) will be heard at 11:30.
Item 10(C) will be heard no later than one p.m. And the reason
Page 4
June 10, 2003
I said that is, at one time I thought this meeting would get done
around noon, but it's probably going to be dead on about one o'clock.
The next item, item 13(A), to be heard immediately following
10(C), and that's that precinct item for the board of-- from the
supervisor of elections.
That's all I have, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: County Attorney Ramiro Manalich,
do you have anything for us today?
MR. MANALICH: No, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay.
I'll start down with Commissioner Coletta. Do you have any
changes to today's agenda or any ex parte communication under the
summary agenda?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Nothing under the summary
agenda.
Yes, I do have three items I'd like to pull from the consent
agenda. That's 16(A) 15, 16(A) 16, and 16(A) 17.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. These are all TDC --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- grant -- okay.
And those will go on 10(Z) to -- no, we're not down to Z.
MR. MUDD: 16(A) 15 will be 10(H); 16(A) 16 will be 10(I);
and 16(A) 17 will be 10(J).
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay.
Anything else, Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No. Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Mr. Chairman, I have no changes
and I have no disclosures for the summary agenda.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I have no disclosures for the
summary and everything else is okay.
Page 5
June 10, 2003
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I have one disclosure for the
summary agenda, and that is 17(C) -- what is that number? Hold on
just a minute.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: A or B?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: 17(B), and that is with regard to the
East Naples Fire Station. And I've spoken to the fire commissioner
and the fire chief, plus I've had an email.
And other than that, I have no corrections, additions, or other --
other ex parte.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Myself, I want to pull 17(B)
to put it -- be put on the regular agenda and -- just for a, hopefully a
slight correction.
Or Mr. County Manager, we might be able to do that now, if the
-- if staff is willing to correct something on the agenda that -- or on
the application that I have some concerns. It would be
transportation.
MR. MUDD: Hey, Norm and Joe, if you could come forward
on this so we can discuss 16(B) and get things worked out, please.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: If I could ask somebody from the
East Naples Fire Department to step to the other podium.
My concern is, there's a statement in here stating that it may
request a traffic impact statement. And my feeling is, if we can get
the East Naples Fire Department to commit to a three-bay station
what is predict -- is proposed on the site development plan -- MR. POTTENGER: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And my feeling, that our staff knows
what's going to be there, and we shouldn't need a transportation
impact statement.
Can our transportation department agree to that?
MR. FEDER: Commissioner Henning -- first of all, for the
Page 6
June 1 O, 2003
record, Norman Feder, transportation administrator.
It's my understanding that the site plan that's provided in this is,
in fact, a commitment of that final site plan, that this is not just a
rezoning, but is a special use. This is a consideration of the site plan
that's provided with this document; is that correct? Refer to community development.
MS. DESELEM: Good morning. For the record, Kay Deselem,
principal planner, current planning.
The request before you is a conditional use for a fire station. It
is tied to a certain site plan, per condition. And I'm not exactly
certain what condition it is that we're trying to remove or change.
There isn't a specific condition that requires a traffic impact
statement, so I'm not certain exactly--
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Correct.
MS. DESELEM: -- certain what the issue is.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: It says it may require a traffic impact
statement. That's what the document says before the board.
MS. DESELEM: Which condition, if I may ask?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: It would be under transportation.
MS. DESELEM: Okay. We have a list of conditions that's
attached, it's the last page, and it talks about East Naples Fire Station
conditions for approval, and those are the specific conditions that
would be tied to this particular site plan and this use.
There is a condition seven that talks about alternative
transportation modes, but that has to do with the Bayshore MSTU
and irrigation and landscaping. There is no specific requirement that
I'm aware of that would require the applicant in this petition to have a
TIS.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. It's in our document here.
And right now I can't -- can't find it, so if it is there, does staff have
any problem removing that?
MR. FEDER: In answer to your question, Commissioner, no,
Page 7
June 1 O, 2003
we do not.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Great. So that's part of the
amendment to today's agenda.
So with that, I'll entertain a motion to accept today's agenda
with the amendments.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Question, if I may.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Sure.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I just wonder if this is going to
become a policy that we exempt all public facilities from scrutiny in
the future. Is this what we're talking about doing?
MS. DESELEM: We are not specifically addressing the action
as part of the conditional use.
The applicant would need to submit whatever's required for the
SDP approval when he submits for it. And it goes to a timing
element, as I understand it. Transportation can also address this.
But if-- there's a time frame that elapses under which we had a
TIS information done at the initial stage for the conditional use, and
then things change after that when they actually come in for a site
development plan. It's only fair to expect them to analyze the traffic
as it exists when they're seeking to have the actual approval.
But we have not stipulated any specific question -- or I'm sorry
-- any specific condition that would exempt them from any
requirement for an SDP approval. They would need to comply with
whatever's required.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So what we're asking to do
right now is to tell them to go ahead but they don't need it? I'm a
little lost.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah, that's --
MR. FEDER: Again, Norman Feder.
Commissioner, in answer to your question, no, we're not
exempting public facilities. I think the question at this point is, we
have a three-bay fire station with a site plan provided.
Page 8
June 10, 2003
The major concern we had was to make sure that the fire trucks,
as I'm sure the fire department as well doesn't want, are not backing
out into the roadway. We think that's been addressed in the site plan.
We do not see, based on this site and with the three-bay, that there's
a requirement to go through a traffic impact statement.
I will definitely defer to the chairman. I'm sure it's written in
there or he wouldn't have raised it, but it wasn't in the list of
conditions placed on this project, that there be a TIS, and we are
ready to submit on the record that, with what we have in front of us,
that we're not requesting that.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. I don't have any questions.
It's not there. It's not an issue, so we can move on. Is that okay, Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No, not really. I don't mean to
belabor this, but I do have a couple more questions.
Yo give me a comparison. Suppose we have an EMS station
going in. Same rules right across the board?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Different use.
MR. FEDER: Commissioner, first of all, what we do is we try
to look at the site, both the intensity and the nature of what's being
proposed, whether it's public or private facility.
In this case, as I said, we've got a facility that we feel is
designed to the site, addresses our major concerns. And again, we
did not put a stipulation in there. And we are of the understanding
now -- I wasn't when I first spoke to the commissioner on this -- but
that this is a commitment to this site plan rather than just purely a
rezoning that could end up in a different site plan being proposed.
With that in mind, one, wasn't a stipulation specifically made,
and, two, we are ready to agree that the site is developed consistent
with our concerns for transportation in this case. This is not a
blanket statement that public facilities of any nature will not be
reviewed specifically for the transportation impact --
Page 9
June 10, 2003
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So you're willing to sign off on
this one as meeting all the criteria that's out there, and that you don't
see any problem with it?
MR. FEDER: From everything that I have been advised, yes.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Is there something you haven't
been advised on? I mean, do you have all the facts? I'm sorry. I'm
asking direct questions and I want direct answers.
MR. FEDER: Since this is my first day really back from a
three-week vacation --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Welcome back, by the way.
MR. FEDER: -- I don't -- thank you, I appreciate that. But
from what I've seen, Commissioner, yes, I am willing to stipulate that
on this project.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's good enough for me.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Entertain a motion to accept today's
agenda as --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So move.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- amended.
Motion by Commissioner Coletta, second by Commissioner
Coyle.
All in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion carries.
Page 10
AGENDA CHANGES
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' MEETING
June 10,2003
Item 2E: Approval of Minutes should read: May 21, 2003 LDC Special (rather than
May 20, 2003). (Staff request)
Move Item 16(A)13 to 10F (To be heard in conjunction with Item 10E) Also, the
second para.qraph of Considerations in the Executive Summary should read:
"The Coastal Advisory Committee recommended approval of $2,300,000 for the
structures portion of this grant application at their meeting on May 8, 2003. The
hydraulic fill portion of this project was recommended for consideration in the
following budget year." (Commissioner Fiala request.)
Move Item 16(A)10 to 10G: To approve a budget amendment of $25,000 from
current planning object code titled "Other Contractual Services" to the
Community Redevelopment object code entitled "Other Contractual Services" for
the expenditure o f monies t o prepare a m ail-out b allot f or dissemination t o a II
Naples Park Property Owners. (Commissioner Halas request.)
Item 16(A)20: The Board required to approve this item separately as the
Community Redevelopment Agency Board. To approve a budget amendment of
$379,046 for the expenditure of funds from Fund 187 Bayshore/Gateway Triangle
Redevelopment for the Stormwater Management and Infrastructure Program in the
Gateway Triangle/Stormwater Neighborhood.
Item 16(B)7 should read: Approve a Resolution to allow the Chairman of the
Board of County Commissioners to enter into a joint project agreement (JPA with
the Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) to provide for the completion of
phase one of the County-wide computerized traffic signal system by Collier
County. (Staff request.)
Continue Item 16(F)2 to June 24, 2003 BCC Meetin.q: Recommendation that the
Board of County Commissioners award Bid #03-3520 in the amount of $44,800 for
purchase and delivery of pine straw mulch to Forestry Resources, Inc. (Staff
request.)
Move Item 16(J)3 to 13A to be heard immediately followinq Item 10C: New
Precinct Boundaries and Numbers to reflect Commission District Boundaries.
(Staff request.)
Item 16(K)2: Note scrivener error on page 2, paragraph 2 of the executive
summary. The reference to Cleveland Clinic is incorrect and the name Wild Pines
Apartments should be in its place. (Staff request.)
Continue Item 16(K)6 to June 24, 2003 BCC meetinq: Approve a proposed
Settlement Agreement providing for Abatement of Violation and Compromise of
Lien in two Code Enforcement Lien Foreclosures entitled Collier County v.
Anthony J. Varano, Case Nos. 99-4226-CA and 00-3430-CA. (Staff request.)
TIME CERTAIN ITEMS
Item 8B: To be heard at 10:30 a.m.
Item 10A: To be heard at 11:30 a.m.
Item 10C: To be heard no later than 1:00 p.m.
Item 13A: To be heard immediately following Item 10C.
June 1 O, 2003
Item #2B, Item #2C, Item #2D, and Item #2E
MINUTES OF: MAY 13, 2003 REGULAR MEETING; TOWN
HALL MEETING OF MAY 15, 2003; WORKSHOP MEETING OF
MAY 20, 2003; AND LDC SPECIAL MEETING OF MAY 21, 2003
-APPROVED AS PRF, SF, NTF, D
Entertain a motion to accept the May 13, '03, regular meeting;
May 15th, '03, town hall meeting; May 20th, '03, workshop; May
21st, '03, special LDC.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: So move.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: There's a motion by Commissioner
Halas, second by Commissioner Coyle.
All in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion carries.
Item #16A20 - CRA Consent Item
MR. MANALICH: Mr. Chairman, just a clarification for the
record on item 16(A)20 on the consent agenda, that was approved by
you as -- sitting as the community redevelopment agency, and that
was noted on the agenda index.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: That's correct. Would you like a
separate motion on that just to clarify?
Page 11
June 1 O, 2003
MR. MANALICH: Sure.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Entertain a motion to accept 16 --
MR. MANALICH: (A)20.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- (A)20 as CRA board.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: So move.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Second.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion by Commissioner Coyle,
second by Commissioner Halas.
All in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING:
Any opposed?
Motion carries.
MR. POTTENGER: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you, Chief.
Item #4A
PROCLAMATION RECOGNIZING KEN PINEAU, COLLIER
COUNTY EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT DIRECTOR, FOR HIS
SERVICES AND CONTRIBUTIONS TO COLLIER COUNTY
-ADOPTED
Proclamations. We have -- recognize one of our long-standing
employees, Ken Pineau. Mr. Pineau, are you here? Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: There he is.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Come up to the dais, please. Face
Page 12
June 1 O, 2003
the audience.
And it's an honor for me to deliver this proclamation.
Whereas, Ken Pineau as being (sic) his professional career with
Collier County government in 1985 where (sic) he was hired as solid
waste coordinator. In 1986, he was named fleet management
director. From August '87 through to president -- present, Ken has
been emergency management director;
Whereas, Ken has received accreditations from the -- as a
certified emergency management manager from the International
Association of Emergency Management and as a Florida professional
emergency manager from the Florida Emergency Preparedness
Association; and,
Whereas, Ken has assumed effective and efficient leadership
role in several emergency operation centers activation and has
requested (sic) for mutual aid during the past 15 years. Also, he has
been responsible for many incentives (sic) and have (sic) enhanced
public safety and disaster preparedness throughout the countywide
community, earning himself-- or him universal respect in Collier
County and statewide; and,
Whereas, Ken has (sic) awarded the Governor's Hurricane
Emergency Management award in 2001, which recognized him for
his tireless and unselfish efforts to provide (sic) the overall hurricane
preparedness of Florida and for serving as a model as defined as (sic)
consummate emergency manager; and,
Whereas, Ken before relocating in Naples in 1984, served for 30
years as weather forecaster in the United States Air Force. In
addition to attending weather school in the Air Force, he has also
earned a bachelor's degree in Europe -- European history from the
University of Maryland and attended graduate school in the
University of Oklahoma where he has majored in public
administration; and,
Whereas, Ken is retiring effective June 30th, 2023 -- oh, I'm
Page 13
June 10, 2003
sorry -- 2003, from Collier County government after serving 18 years
of dedicated, loyal service; and,
Whereas, the Board of Commissioners of Collier County, the
county administrator (sic), and the county staff, as well as county --
Collier County community, do hereby recognize Ken's achievements.
Now, for -- be it proclaimed by the Board of Commissioners of
Collier County, Florida, the emergency management director, Ken
Pineau, receives recognition for his contribution to Collier County.
We extend our sincere appreciation and genuine gratitude for his
job well done and wish Ken the best in his future endeavors.
I make a motion that we approve this proclamation.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion by Commissioner Henning,
second by Commissioner Coyle.
All in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We'll see you in 2023.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Let's get a picture.
MR. MUDD: Ken, you get a picture.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Maybe we can get a picture also with
the county manager and the Board of Commissioners with Mr.
Pineau.
MR. MUDD: Hold up. Here we go. Ready? Mechanical
failure. See, I got up there and it will be broken.
CAMERAMAN: Well, I'm so sorry.
Page 14
June 10, 2003
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Come back in 2023.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Let's try again.
MR. MUDD: How we doing?
CAMERAMAN: One more, please.
(Applause.)
MR. PINEAU: Well, this has to be the fastest 18 years I've ever
spent in my life.
But we've made a lot of changes over the years. When I first
came to the county back in 1985, as the proclamation stated, I spent a
year in solid waste department, then fleet management. I think the
Peter Principle arrived pretty early back then, so then they made me
emergency manager. I really didn't know a lot.
And fortunately, senior staff let me go up to the National
Emergency Training Center in Emmitsburg, Maryland. I've been up
there a few times. In fact, despite the rumors, they're not naming the
dining hall after me.
But when I first started in emergency management, we had a
very small area actually we -- with Billie Moyers, where there was
just a staff of two. Then I spent 14 more great years with Gary
Arnold before his untimely passing, and then we went into -- when
the supervisor of elections moved out, we took over their space, but
we're running out of space again.
So I notice on the agenda today that we have some design and
engineering for a new emergency service complex, and think that
that's going to be sorely needed here in the near furore, especially in
this age of domestic terrorism. I think we need to get out of this
building here.
But if I had any success, it's because of the -- I've been really
blessed with the co-workers that I've had, not only on staff, Gary
Arnold, Billie Moyers, but also Rick, Jim, Joni Vander Till, Darcie
keeps me out of trouble all the time, Patti Clemens of our special
needs program. We've been really blessed.
Page 15
June 10, 2003
So I wish I could stay a little bit longer, but we're going to go
out and spend a little time traveling, seeing some of the United
States.
And at this time, if I may, I'd like to introduce the audience to a
real master of disaster, Dan Summers. Dan comes to us from
Wilmington, North Carolina, and he's certainly had his share of
hurricanes. So I hope he leaves them up there though.
Thank you very much.
(Applause.)
MR. MUDD: Hey, Dan. Dan, if you'd just wait a little bit. Dan
comes from New Hanover County in Wilmington, North Carolina, to
try to fill Ken Pineau's shoes, and I haven't compared shoe size, but I
will tell you, Ken leaves a legacy of excellence that Dan will have to
try to live up to.
Mr. Summers is an exceptionally qualified manager. He
possesses the technical background, work experience, formal
education and training and demonstrated leadership abilities required
to continue the tradition of excellence established by Ken and his
staff.
Mr. Summers is highly regarded as a leader in the field of
emergency management and as a respected adjunct faculty member
of the Federal Emergency Management Agency National Training
Institute.
So I will tell you we hired probably the best in the United States
to try to fill Ken's shoes, and we're lucky to get Mr. Summers to
come to this county.
Now, how many hurricanes have you been through?
MR. SUMMERS: Just 11, Jim.
MR. MUDD: Just 11, okay.
MR. SUMMERS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Welcome --
MR. SUMMERS: It's a real honor to be with you-all and be
Page 16
June 10, 2003
part of the Collier County family.
Having 19 years in county government, trust me, county
government is family, and it's a real honor to be here with you.
And Ken has an exceptional program. I knew that, that's why I
put my name in the hat, and I know that Collier County is a very fine
and professional organization. And again, it's my thrill to be here.
Yes, I did leave the bull's eye back in Wilmington, hopefully,
for all the presidentially-declared disasters, but you have an
outstanding organization here, and it's my job to continue to be the
county's best boy scout and continue to make you as prepared as
possible with all the staff and the resources and be ready for
whatever faces us in emergency management. And heavens knows,
there's a lot of new things out there on the radar screen.
So it's an honor to be with you. Look forward to working with
you. I live and breathe emergency management 24/7, because that's
just part of the job. It's an honor to serve and honor to be part here in
Collier County, so thank you-all very much.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
MR. SUMMERS: Thank you.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Go to presentations.
Item #5A
RESULTS OF AN EMPLOYEE "ETHICS AUDIT"-STAFF TO
BRING BACK RECOMMENDATIONS IN ORDER TO
[MPIJF, MF, NT THE RESI HiTS
5(A), report to the Board of Commissioners on a resolution of
employees' ethics audit, and today we have Dr. --
MS. WIDAS: Good morning, Commissioners. Terri Widas,
direct -- career development and training manager, human resources.
Page 17
June 10, 2003
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Good luck on your directorship.
MS. WIDAS: SolTy about that.
I'm here today to introduce Dr. Ferenz. He's the direct of center
-- the director of the Center for Ethics at International College, and
he is here to present to you the preliminary findings on the ethics
audit that you approved to have done on April 23rd, 2002. Dr. Ferenz ?
DR. FERENZ: Thank you very much. For the record, Leonard
Ferenz, International College. I need an IT person, I'm sure, to help
me get through this, because we're not getting cooperation.
You have copies of this preliminary report. Let me point out, by
the way, this is just an introduction to a final report that you will
receive, hopefully in a very timely manner, forthcoming when I have
had an opportunity to review the comments or questions that you
might have, and also when I have an opportunity to present the report
to the team of auditors who were part of this project and have them
sign off on it.
So what you are going to hear from me today is a summary of
what we have determined as a result of this process that has been a
year in the making.
The ethics audit was really conducted at your invitation in order
to review the ethics program here at Collier County. And so when I
can pull this up, or at least talk about it, then we might be able to
make some headway. I'll tell you what I will do --
MR. MUDD: Do you have the slide? I'll put them on there.
DR. FERENZ: It's not a slide. It's --
MR. MUDD: That's fine. That will go, you watch.
Kady, can I have the overhead. There you go.
DR. FERENZ: Okay. Hey, it works. Okay, well, good. Well,
thank you.
Okay. In any case, this is the Collier County ethics audit, ethics
program audit of 2003. I would like to simply acknowledge my team
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June 1 O, 2003
members. The names on this list, I'd certainly just at least like to
read. Dr. Joseph Donahue, who was one of the trustees of
International College, was a team participant; I'm on that list, with a
Ph.D. from Georgetown; Dr. Kenneth Ginsburg's a doctor of law,
teaches at the International College; Dr. Myra Marcus, who is with
Florida Gulf State, Florida Gulf Coast University; and Bert Nordin;
and Reverend Dr. Gordon Postill, all members of our ethics audit
team. We also had an advisory committee made up of prominent
ethicists noted in the field.
Our methodology for this -- for this project began by trying to
create a mission statement for the auditing team. The mission
statement is attached as an appendix to the report that you will be
receiving. It was for our purposes to be able to state our mission.
We also came up with a list of criteria for evaluating any
organizational ethics program. Those criteria are also included in
your final report, and they are the criteria by which we assessed and
evaluated ethics -- the ethics program at Collier County.
We also then developed a survey instrument. This is probably
the seminal part of this program. The team created a survey
instrument that was administered to Collier County government
employees. All employees were invited to participate in this survey
with very high success, which I will identify in a moment.
There were personal interviews. We did not interview a vast
number of Collier County employees. I would say on the order of
three percent of the Collier County employee population we had --
with whom we had personal interviews, but we learned a great deal
from that.
And then in the recent months we've conducted team reviews of
the results of the survey. We have an analysis, recommendations,
and caveats, all of which will be part of what I will introduce today.
Quite briefly the findings, 49 percent participation in this
survey, which by any standards, is remarkably high. There was a
Page 19
June 10, 2003
hard copy version of this that was handed out to employees who were
then invited to take that, and there was an on line version. So these
employees who had access to computers were invited to participate
in the survey on line.
Our participation on line was extremely high, around the order
of 59 percent of Collier County employees, which is roughly half,
who had access to computer screens, participated in the survey.
Thirty-nine percent participated with the hard copy, so we have
an average of roughly 49 percent participation, close to 900 people
participate in this survey. By any standards, that's remarkably high.
What I'm referring to is 86 percent -- 86 percent confidence
here, is with reference to a question that we asked on the survey, do
you feel you can answer the questions honestly on their survey. And
86 percent of the participants indicated that they felt they could
answer honestly and candidly the questions on this survey.
Now, that's very high. It's -- I am pleased with it. The reason
that it may not be a hundred percent, of course, is because not
everybody was confident that the link to the website would have
ensured them confidentiality. And we did, of course, try to create an
HTPL link that went directly from -- to International College. And
any participant who would have entered in this program and taken
this survey would have been linked directly to the college so that no
key strokes would have been recorded here at Collier County.
Now, that was too much to explain in a letter to the participants,
but if there was some suspicion that maybe they wouldn't be able to
answer candidly, it might be because they were thinking that the
instrument itself would be intercepted along the way. That isn't
possible. It wouldn't have been possible. It went directly to the
college. But still, at 86 percent confidence level, we're very pleased
with that.
Now, the other finding that I identified here is 93 percent
awareness, I think, is really quite wonderful. Ninety-three percent of
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June 1 O, 2003
your employees are aware that there's an ethics program at Collier
County. Now, on a corporate -- and as a comparison to corporate
America, that's a good 20 percent higher than most corporate
programs. People generally aren't even all that much aware that their
organization has an ethics program. So you have very high visibility,
and I congratulate you for that. That's really quite wonderful and
quite remarkable.
Integrity and honesty were something that were revealed in the
nature of this whole enterprise, and I would like to be on the record
as being able to suggest that. Our impressions are very strongly of
the sort that Collier County employees, by and large, are extremely
ethical, extremely honest, and have a high level of integrity.
Certainly that is our perception, and I think it is the perception shared
generally among Collier County employees. I think they all each
regard each other as people who perform their jobs honestly and with
a high degree of integrity.
So I'm happy -- we're happy with what we're seeing in the level
of response and the actual -- the -- in other words, when we were
inviting people to rat on each other, they didn't, and that's really quite
a nice thing. There wasn't anybody to rat on. That's kind of a nice
thing.
There were over 400 replies to the question, what I would like
the ethics audit team to know if. Now, that was the last question in
this survey. It was important to us because it was an opportunity for
the participants to indicate what it is they would like us to know in
addition to what we asked.
And over 400 replies to that question, and some of the replies
were quite lengthy, some of them a page long, and I think very
sincerely offered. There are always -- there's always a few that are
throw-outs, but -- some people wondering, you know, why we
couldn't spell the word break correctly in one of the questions. But
in any case, I was pleased with the participation with this -- with this
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question.
Now, to the matter. The recommendations that our committee
would like to make to Collier County government. Quite summarily,
they are simply this. We really highly recommend that, as a team,
that you appoint an ethics officer or an ethics administrator, an ethics
facilitator. It's certainly your choice of words what this might be
called. We have some recommendations to make here, but an ethics
administrator is an identifiable person within the organization who is
the go-to person with regard to matters of ethics. I'll explain more
thoroughly what that would involve.
We also believe you need to develop an ongoing program of
education and training, and a very active ongoing -- the keyword
here, of course, is ongoing -- program of education and training.
I will offer the survey results and interview results that helped
substantiate these recommendations in a moment, but I just want to
introduce them quite briefly here.
You certainly need to justify the rules. The rules of ethics, the
standards of conduct require justification, in other words, a defense.
To justify is to defend. And a defense is important for a number of
reasons. Again, I'll get to those.
We believe that disciplinary procedures need to be codified and
applied uniformly. At least there needs to be an effort to indicate
that they will be administered in that kind of a manner, because there
are some questions about fairness with regard to the way people are
treated.
The zero gift policy is certainly one that gets a lot of attention
around Collier County, and there needs to be some clarification there.
I'd like to address that.
And we believe that you need to create a concise and
comprehensible ethics booklet. Now, I'm thinking of something here
along the line of ethics for dummies. Forgive me for saying so, but
there's that wonderful whole series of books that you can get at
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June 1 O, 2003
Barnes and Noble, you know. It started out, I guess, Computers for
Dummies, this for dummies. There's even a book out now called
Philosophy for Dummies.
I'm thinking I should write one called ethics for dummies, but
really it's not -- it sounds sort of insulting, but it's not. It's really a
very comprehensible, concise way of applying ethics and making it
palatable for people. So we suggest that.
Now, the goals of this audit -- the goals of our recommendations
are really quite simple. We would like to promote effective
government and ethical government. I think that effective, efficient
government is certainly the goal that you have in mind. I share that
with you. And we are all aware that government cannot be effective,
cannot reach the people, and public servants cannot discharge their
tasks successfully without having established a basis of trust.
And, of course, I see that we've spelled morale incorrectly here.
That's a typo. Thank you -- and by improving morale.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Try spell check.
DR. FERENZ: Spell check wouldn't have helped, isn't (sic) it?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Use that. It's great.
DR. FERENZ: Well, we like it this way too. Okay. Good.
Thank you.
And also to promote ethical government through education and
training, through respect, awareness, sensitivity, and understanding,
through buy-in and ownership, which are extremely important.
People need to buy into an ethics program. Your employees need to
feel that they have ownership in that program. There are a number of
reasons for that, and I'm sure they're obvious, but I would like to
address those.
Recommendation number one, the ethics administrator should
be the go-to person or the fountainhead of the program. They would
provide this ability to the ethics program because they are the central
key person.
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Mediate suspected ethics violations. We noticed in the surveys
that there was a great deal of concern how an individual who --
would go about reporting a suspected violation of the rules of ethics.
There was not a high level of confidence that they could report that
to a person who would make a difference.
There's also simply the question, a simple matter, of people
needing guidance when it comes to knowing whether or not there has
been a breach of conduct. It's not always abundantly clear that
somebody has, in fact, violated a principle or a rule of ethics, and the
visible ethics person would be able to clarify that and mediate
between the employee and the county manager.
We see the ethics administrator reporting directly to the county
manager, of course, but they would be the mediator between the
people, your employees, who have concerns, and the county manager
who would actually be able to take action on those -- on those
concerns if they required such.
The ethics administrator is the program coordinator for
developing and administering the ongoing education and training.
They would develop and maintain information resources. We, again,
noted that people don't really believe that they have resources that
they can consult in order to learn something about ethics.
Ethics is not a set of rules that are mandates from heaven and
prescribed and you translate them and give them to your employees.
Ethics and education are a process. And the process usually
involves, as well, accessing resources that help self-education and
ongoing education. And we see a need for developing these. This
would be on the lines of resource library, materials, even posters
periodically that explain what a rule of ethics is and how it might be
applied.
The ethics administrator also provides advice and guidance, and
this would certainly be somebody we would see in a very
confidential role.
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Why -- why that recommendation? We asked the question, is
there a person in charge of ethics for Collier County? And don't
know represented over half of the employees. They don't know if
there's anybody in charge of ethics for Collier County. MR. PERKINS: Doesn't exist.
DR. FERENZ: The concern, of course, is that there's an
identifiable person who is responsible and who can be consulted. So
is there a person in charge of ethics for Collier County? Well, if
there is, employees don't know who it is and how to access that
person.
Is your supervisor the first person you're directed to go to with
questions about ethical behavior? And the question -- the answer to
that is yes, overwhelmingly yes. Employees are instructed to go to
their supervisor, immediate supervisor with questions about ethics.
That, of course, is -- probably a problem is your supervisor is a
person whose behavior you haven't -- you question.
So there's some reason to make sure that an employee can go to
the top with a question concerning ethics. I think that when you
create gatekeepers with questions of ethics, you create barriers to
participation in that ethics program and what we could call buy-in.
The gatekeeper becomes a barrier, an obstruction to really buying
into and behaving, I think, responsibility and ethically.
And finally, this question, too, was rather revealing. I can
report on ethical behavior of others without getting into trouble, and
only 26 percent of the participants agree that they can report on
ethical behavior without getting into trouble. Somewhat agree means
I guess you can get somewhat into trouble, and strongly agree is a
very small percentage. Thirteen percent would feel confident being
able to report on ethical behavior. We need to build that confidence.
And I think, again, the ethics administrator is the person that
could help build the confidence that people can report on ethical
behavior and not get in trouble by doing so. Again, the ethics
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administrator is sort of the bypass person.
Recommendation number two, education and training. I have a
very long explanation of this in the final report. But quite briefly, it's
simply this, we would love to see an education training program help
cultivate critical thinking skills and problem-solving skills through a
case analysis, situational ethics, and role playing.
Bayer, the pharmaceutical corporation, developed a fabulous
program, ethics program, by having its -- its chief executive staff
create videos and role play, act out roles, involving different kinds of
ethical problems.
And it was well received by employees. They were entertained
seeing their bosses act out roles that involve some sort of breach
conduct and learn through those videos.
There are some very creative ways that individuals can be
involved in role playing that help educate employees what kind of
behavior is considered appropriate and inappropriate.
Character development is a part of education and training. And
I say character development with some trepidation. I believe that the
character, the level of character among county employees is very
high. We're not saying that there's something wrong with the ethical
character here. There isn't.
Development here simply means that it's an opportunity for
people to improve their performance through a better understanding
of what's expected of them, not because they don't already have the
integrity to do so, but because understanding improves cooperation
and compliance with the program. And you need support materials
as we identified.
And then finally, education and training should include the
component of a justification for the rules of ethics and the standards
of conduct.
Again, the support for this comes from the survey. I clearly
understand Collier County's rules and standards of ethical conduct.
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Well, 45 percent of the people agree that they understand these, but
we have to remember that the standards that they use to evaluate their
own understanding would be personal standards.
Do I clearly understand is a personal assessment of whether I
feel comfortable with my understanding of these -- of these rules.
Well, that's only half that feel that they -- a little over half feel that
they agree or strongly agree. I'm worried about the potential 40
percent who don't believe that they understand the rules. It's hard to
comply when you don't understand.
Has Collier County required you to attend a workshop, special
event, or program about ethics in the workplace, and that is -- 42
percent saying yes is probably not as active a program as we would
hope to see. Certainly people need to remember that they've been
asked to attend a program or have had an opportunity to participate in
a program that involves ongoing education and training in ethics in
the workplace. And I will get to a response that certainly supports
that.
Does Collier County have support materials that give you
updated information about ethics in the workplace, and again, the
reply is a little bit disappointing. Over 50 percent don't know if
there's support material available. It's not visible. It's not visible. If
there is support material for the ethics program, it's not being offered.
The support materials provided by the county are helpful. Well,
for those who think that there are support materials out there -- and
remember, that only represents half, then roughly half agree that -- or
a little over half agree that they're helpful. Well, that's good. That's
certainly on the right track that the materials that are available are
helpful, but we would like to see not only the amount of awareness
that such materials are available increase, but also the use of those
materials as well.
Collier County's rules of ethics apply to my job? Well, yes,
they do apply to their jobs, and that's over 80 percent of your
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employee population believe that these rules apply to their jobs, and
that is important. They do apply to their jobs. And for that very
reason, we would like to see a higher level of understanding of what
those rules are. Certainly if they apply to their jobs, then they need
to know how to implement and comply with those rules.
And finally, this question, Collier County should provide more
ethics training for its employees. That's a pretty strong response that
they would like to see more ethics training. Now, that's going to (sic)
the horse's mouth.
I'm strongly endorsing more education and training, but this is
based upon your own employees' response to the question. Should
they provide more, and I think you would agree that's a pretty strong
response.
In the 400 responses or replies to the question what I would like
the ethics audit team to know is, we had over 50 -- 50 responses that
indicated they would like to see more ethics training, more education
and training in ethics. Now, that represents 25 percent of the people
who even replied there, who had already indicated here as well that
they would like to see this.
We recommend, number three, justifying the rules. I don't have
the time to spend that I would like to on selling you on the
importance of this. It's probably the most important part of any
ethics program, understanding it certainly promotes concurrence. I
use the word concurrence instead of compliance. To comply, simply
means to obey. To concur means to agree.
We would like to be able to encourage individuals, in any
successful ethics program, the participants to be able to agree with
the rules that guide them. Agree, not just obey them, but to agree
with them.
Certainly you can get people to obey rules. And we have
learned through various types of interviews, and this happens
everywhere, that a compliance program becomes the terms of
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employment, not rules of ethics, but really terms of employment with
an organization.
Are the rules themselves ethical? That's the more probing
question. If you have concurrence, you have not just people who
cooperate with the rules, but people who buy into them.
Concurrence promotes buy-in, and buy-in certainly, when you feel
that you own or are part of the rules that govern you, that they're
your rules as well as the rules that are imposed, and if they're -- in
other words, if they're one and the same, then morale is certainly
improved. And I'm happy to say it's spelled correctly here.
And certainly improved morale promotes efficiency and
integrity. Integrity promotes trust both within and without an
organization. And trust, I assure you, is founded on defensibility, the
fact that the rules can be defended on strong ethical and moral
grounds.
I can't go through the entire process of revealing the contents of
the entire report in this brief summary, but I would certainly like to
point out that there are so many kinds of rules of conduct. There are
rules of the game that you read on a Monopoly board that tell you
how to play the game. Those rules are not moral rules.
There are rules of etiquette, holding the door, pulling out a
chair, this is fine, but these are not moral rules. They're customs and
traditions that can be called the rules of conduct. There are religious
rules, there are rules of morality and ethics, there's rules of
compliance.
Where do these standards of conduct fall? Are they rules of the
game, in other words, comply or else you get fired? Are they simply
customs and traditions that are holdovers from a previous type of
organization? No. We want these rules, and I know you do as well,
to be rules of morality and ethics. And if they are rules of morality
and ethics, then it means that you have been able to take the high
moral ground and articulate rules that appeal at the deepest level of a
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person's sense of integrity and sensibility. And those are the kinds of
rules that are rules of ethics.
Collier County's -- we asked the question on the survey, Collier
County's -- Collier County's rules of ethical behavior are good rules,
good rules. We leave it open of how a person might interpret good
rules, but I think the response here is pretty good. The rules are good
rules. There seems to be a sense that these are appropriate rules and
they're good because they have a foundation.
There are good reasons for Collier County's rules of ethical
behavior. Yes, there are good reasons. Collier County is trying to
rectify past indiscretions, and in doing so, have created sometimes
more stringent rules that are applied at other government levels. And
for this reason, I think your employees are very much aware that
there are good reasons for these rules. I would like to say you're
getting buy-in.
This is the problem. I understand the reasons for Collier
County's rules of ethical behavior. Agree and strongly agree means,
yes, we know that there are good reasons behind these, but there's
enough concern about what the ultimate justification is for some of
the rules, and that's where a justifying-the-rules effort would be more
useful.
Recommendation number four, codify disciplinary procedures
and apply uniformly. Our concerns here were that -- I use the words
corruption, fairness, consistency, integrity, and conviction here, not
because they're accusatory, but only because any successful ethics
program will be able to help avoid concerns about corruption or
unfairness, inconsistency, or a lack of integrity.
The consequences -- and here's some of the questions that
support that recommendation. The consequences for breaking any
given rule of ethical conduct set by Collier County are the same for
everyone. That's important, right? The consequences for breaking
any given rule of ethical conduct set by Collier County are the same
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for everyone, and not everybody agrees that they are the same for
everyone.
In fact, even if 50 percent of the people who participated in the
survey don't feel comfortable answering that question, it would be
because they don't believe that the rules are applied uniformly and
equally among -- among employees, and that should be a lot higher.
I mean, we should certainly want to think that people feel that
there's fairness in the application of rules.
Another question that addressed the same concern. Collier
County's rules of ethics apply equally to everyone who works for the
county, including appointed elected officials. That's a disappointing
response. Only something on the order of 40 percent agreed that
that's the case. Over 60 percent don't agree at some level, and that,
again, is something that I would like to see changed, and I believe
that we know how you can change that.
The higher your position with Collier County the more you can
get away with, and there are a number of people who agree that the
higher your position, the more you can get away with. And that
should be a very small number, and hopefully not such a large one.
On the order of 30 to 40 percent is probably a bit high, and we would
like, certainly, to help you see that change.
Punishment for breaking Collier County's rules of ethical
behavior are applied equally to everyone. There's some amount of
agreement. Again, you're looking at pie charts that are almost 50/50
in their division of these, 40/60, 50/50. We'd certainly like to see
that 50 percent of the employees of Collier County believing that
these rules apply equally to everybody.
Certainly already half of the people do, and maybe they're the
more knowledgeable half. Maybe simply this half doesn't know
better, but that's a part of the process of educating. Make sure the
people understand that if there are rules, that they are applied equally
to everyone.
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Another question that addresses the same thing -- they're all
worded just a little bit differently to make sure that people have an
opportunity to reply in a way that they might have wanted to without
having to write this themselves.
Punishments for breaking Collier County's rules of ethical
behavior are fair. Fair here meaning that the punishment suits the
crime. All right? And as you can see on this chart, there is
agreement that they're fair, but that agreement really, again -- the
strong agreement or agreement only totals about 40 percent. And
then there's a somewhat agree. Somewhat is kind of a scary
category. Yeah, sometimes they seem to be fair, sometimes they
don't seem to be fair. Certainly they ought to be fair. They ought to
appear fair all the time and appear fair to everyone who responds.
Clarification of the zero gift policy is certainly something that
requires some attention. My own team was very much split on the
idea of a zero gift policy. Some of my team members felt that it was
inappropriate, that there should be a $50 minimum, but others found
it quite appropriate. It's very curious though to discuss the zero gift
policy and realize that a great deal of the difficulty here involves
simply the notion of what a gift is.
And in some conversations with your county management team
and others, I think that there's a lot to be learned by being able to
distinguish between things that are gifts and things that are amenities
or courtesies.
And there's a great deal of concern. I'll make it very brief. We
learned from some county employees that they're so concerned about
what it means to accept a gift, that employees who, for example,
were invited to partake in a bowl of candy that was being passed
around at some sort of event didn't feel that they could take the candy
out of the bowl without being accused of accepting a gift and
somehow violating the zero gift policy.
Well, now, is taking candy out of a bowl when it's being passed
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around to everybody in a room accepting a gift? That's a problem,
isn't it?
When you go to Publix and they have a coffee maker that
dispenses coffee for anybody that walks in the store, can a county
employee accept that cup of coffee? Is it a gift? Well, in some sense
it's an amenity. Anybody who walks into the store can partake of the
coffee machine and have a cup of coffee. That's an amenity.
You can walk up to a water fountain and take a drink of water,
but you can't accept a bottle of water when you're out at a job site
working a job. There's a problem here. Distinguishing between
things that are amenities and things that are gifts, things that would
be acceptable to partake in and things that would not.
And I think a great deal of clarity can be offered in this entire
gift policy situation by being able to distinguish between things that
are gifts and things that are amenities.
I will say this -- and because I am in favor of the zero gift policy
personally, and I see it as worthwhile policy for this reason. As an
issue of justice, it is correct that there -- that public servants should
not accept gifts of any kind, as an issue of justice.
And I will simply tell you one quick story, if I may -- and I've
gone way over my time, and I apologize for that. But let me tell you
this. We had a county employee participate in one of the classes at
the college, and I introduced a question -- this was at the master's
level in an MBA program. I asked the question, is it appropriate for
a county employee, a fireman, or policeman to accept free cups of
coffee at a local 7-Eleven? Remember, those cups of coffee are
available only to the policemen types, not to everybody who walks in
the store.
And I had one individual say, of course, that's a no-brainer.
What's a cup of coffee? I can't be bought for a cup of coffee. And
the answer was, after we discussed it at some length, you have just
been purchased for the price of a cup of coffee. Your presence in
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that facility has just been purchased for the price of a cup of coffee.
Why? Because the mom and pop organization down the street
that can't afford to give away the cups of coffee is not having your
presence on their site to insure their safety and security and to
encourage that -- or to make that visible to the people who are
walking in that store.
The reason 7-Elevens give that away is because they want that
presence. I feel the safest place -- and, of course, I know that -- I
know that your people are far more health conscious than they used
to be, so this isn't probably as true as it used to be, but Dunkin
Donuts has to have been the safest place in America to go at one
time, not because they were getting free doughnuts, I think just that --
because all the police were there. But obviously, right, if the police
are there, you feel more secure as a people who's visiting a site.
So yes, somebody's been purchased for the cup -- price of a cup
of coffee. That cup of coffee is a gift. A cup of coffee at Publix is an
amenity. That's the difference, and I think that a lot can be learned
and discussed through a more comprehensible and more cohesive
approach to the zero gift policy. You need that ethics booklet that
will simply explain all of what I just said.
And finally, the caveats, incredibly important that you respond
to this survey. There's a great deal of concern that the effort, this
whole exercise has been really only -- that it will be futile, and it will
have been futile if you, as the commissioners, do not respond in some
way to the recommendations, either reject them or accept them or do
something with them, but certainly do something.
Perceptions of impropriety undermine trust, and we are very
concerned about perceptions as well as you. And I think that what
we are trying to do and what you have done as a group in inviting us
to do an ethics audit is to make an attempt to try to repair trust at the
public level and also internally.
And I certainly think that this exercise has, in itself, been
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worthwhile just insofar as doing that. We can take the next step, I
think, as a group, and I hope our report will help you do that, will
assist you in taking the next step to help build trust within and
without the community.
The limits and promises of education and training. I'm sorry I
can't go through that whole list. Education and training isn't going to
answer all the problems that occur, but I do and strongly believe that
buy-in is absolutely essential. Employees buy into an ethics program
when they believe that they're a part of that program and they can
understand it.
And then, really, there are some false expectations of this, and
this is my warning to the public who would be looking at this
presentation and wondering, well, how come I haven't pointed the
finger at people and said, well, there's corruption here and corruption
there. Any program, any successful ethics program is not going to
prevent corruption. Corrupt people will infiltrate any ranks.
And certainly, it was interesting when people asked me the
question, where did the corruption come from that this ethics audit is
a response to? And it came from the electrum (sic). That's who put
the commissioners in office. It's not from within the organization of
individuals who lack integrity.
Within the organization, I think there's a high level of integrity,
and that's something you simply want to encourage, not to -- to create
a false sense that they are -- that the people within the organization
are really the fall guys for everything that goes wrong.
And certainly, we're very, very much in favor of helping restore
public trust, republic trust. There won't be universal satisfaction that
any ethics program is ultimately correct. There are people who
believe that you can't teach ethics. You're either born with it or you
learn it in the first four years of life or what have you.
But that is probably a misconception about what ethics is. As I
insist -- and I'll close with this comment-- ethics is process. It's a
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methodology. It's a way of approaching concerns of conduct and
addressing those concerns through a systematic -- systemic enterprise
that will help the people who are part of that process improve their
own conduct. Okay?
That's it. That was way longer than it was supposed to be, and I
talked as fast as I possibly could.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you, Dr. Ferenz.
Commissioners, comments? Questions?
Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I just -- I just want to
personally thank you. Back some time ago, two year -- well, before
we came into office, this county government was being rocked at its
very foundations with three commissioners being indicted and the
county manager being indicted. Tremendous amount of distrust on
the public's part.
When we came into office, the new commissioners, we had to
overcome a tremendous amount of distrust. And through the
auspices of Jim Mudd and the county staff pulling it together, we've
made some amazing strides, but there's still always more to be done,
and that's why I asked you originally if you would look into the
possibilities of this study.
I have a personal no gift policy that is extremely simple to
follow, and I don't see why we can't adapt it to the county. And
we've made strides in that direction also.
But I like some of your recommendations here very much,
especially the ethics officer, someone that a person could go to in the
county government to be able to report something they're not
comfortable with.
We've had situations come up several different times where the
only way the employees could reach out and touch us is through
anonymous letters sent out, and that seems like it's a very clumsy
type of operation to be able to have to go through to be able to bring
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a problem around to resolution.
Being that we're a government run by people, there's always
going to be a certain amount of imperfections there, but we have to
be able to address those imperfections in an equitable way that will
lead to resolution. There has to be rules and regulations that we can
follow, there has to be a methodology that will get us to the point we
want to arrive at.
And I personally endorse what you have come up with in your
recommendations, and I would like to recommend that we send it on
to staff to have them bring it back to us in the form of a final
recommendation that we can implement.
We have already picked up on some of these ideas, and other
ones we need to elaborate on, and some we have to implement. So
that's my particular direction. I know this is -- we're supposed to
direct staff at this time, and I hope that I'll have at least two other
commissioners join me in this effort.
CHAIRMAN HENN1NG: My perspective, we already have an
ethics administrator, the county manager and the county attorney and
the county manager's administration.
I do believe that we need to educate, not only, you know, our
employees, but also the public. And that's what the charge of the
county manager should -- should be. So that's where I'm at.
Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. I also would like to
endorse the recommendations of the study. I think you've done a
really good job, Dr. Ferenz. There -- there is a good argument for
having the administrator outside the organization. MR. PERKINS: Hear, hear.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And we might want to give some
consideration to having Ramiro Manalich, who is, I think, our
resident expert in the ethics ordinance and ethics procedures, as a
possible point of contact, because I think that Dr. Ferenz's
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observation that some people are reluctant to talk about perceived
problems within the organizational structure would be just as
reluctant to go to the county manager as to some of the other
administrators and directors and managers. I think it's something we
need to consider.
But let's not try to solve this right now. I think the important
issue is to -- to give direction to the staff that we either like or don't
like the conclusions and to come back to us with a set of
recommendations as to how we implement them.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'll go along with that.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And I see a couple nods over on this
side, over to my right.
Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Very much so, and I commend
Commissioner Coyle for coming up with the idea of Ramiro there,
and I think that's absolutely excellent. Of course, we haven't asked
him what he thought of it, but --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: He doesn't get a vote.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: That's right.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So you've got to remember that
the county attorney's office --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Unless he becomes a judge.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And just for the benefit of
those that are in the audience and those that are out there listening,
the county attorney's office is separate from the county manager's
office. So that the county manager is in charge of all the employees.
The county attorney is --just have their own particular office to deal
with.
So by setting up a person from the county attorney's office,
there is that remoteness from the county manager's office that would
give us that privacy that we need to be able to conduct this business.
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June 10, 2003
I like that.
Congratulations, Commissioner Coyle. Very good.
CHAIRMAN HENN1NG: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I think what we need to do is -- I
think we're on the right track here, where we let the county attorney
possibly come up with some guidelines, and then we can have a book
that's published so any new employees that come onboard are
immediately presented with the book.
And after maybe a period of one or two weeks, they're called
back in to HR to sign a paper stating that they've read the book and
they understand it, and if they don't -- if they have any questions,
then we can direct them to county staff so they can have a personal
one-on-one discussion so that they can clarify any particular areas
that they are not sure of in the ethics.
But I think a booklet needs to be presented to all new hirees, and
possibly periodically, every five years, we pass out the booklet to all
employees to make sure that they're kind of brought up to date if
there's been any changes in our ethics code.
MR. PERKINS: Hear, hear.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: IfI may?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Sure.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: One other suggestion I would
have is that when we're writing this book -- I mean, the -- what we've
heard today is about as clear as we've ever heard the situation.
Normally you get so drowned out in the recommendations and
arguments and counter arguments that is loses any validity as far as
what direction to go. When the time does come, maybe we might be
able to ask for the assistance of the good doctor here to critique what
we're writing and look for the clarity that we need. When you need
help, you call in the experts.
I recognize you, sir, as an expert.
DR. FERENZ: I appreciate the commendation. Thank you.
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June 10, 2003
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Any more discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you, Doctor, again --
DR. FERENZ: My pleasure.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- for your time.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you very much.
Item #6A
REQUEST BY MR. DAVID A. MCELVAIN TO DISCUSS
VANDERBILT BEACH BEAUTIFICATION MSTU AND THE
CARROLL POINT PETITION FOR REMOVAL FROM DISTRICT
lqOl JNDARIFJS-NO ACTION
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Next item is public petition. And
today we have a request from David McElvain to discuss Vanderbilt
Beach MSTU at Carroll Point, petitioning the board to remove
Carroll Point from the MSTU district.
MR. McELVAIN: Good morning. Thank you for the
opportunity to present our petition.
I understand my time is limited, and I know that you have a
busy agenda, so I'll be as brief as possible.
There are four quick topical areas that I would like to speak
about. First of all is to identify for everybody's purposes the current
boundaries of the Vanderbilt Beach Beautification MSTU.
Secondly, I'd like to briefly cover the sequence of events
regarding this issue that have brought us to this point with our
petition. I'd like to formally present the petition request and
supporting factors that pertain to it.
And finally, as an additional budgeting and taxation issue that
came to my attention in the process of reviewing the information
necessary to bring this petition to your attention. And I think it's my
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June 1 O, 2003
obligation to bring this matter to your attention as well.
Let me first, if I may, is there some way that this can be
displayed?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We have it in our packet.
MR. McELVAIN: I understand. This is larger and color coded,
so I think, perhaps, it's maybe easier to speak to.
Again, this is not complicated or difficult information, but what
you -- what we have displayed is the present boundaries of the
Vanderbilt Beach Beautification MSTU outlined in the -- in red.
And you notice that halfway up the page is -- identifies 111 th
Avenue and Bluebill Avenue. And everything north of Bluebill is
essentially private, gated communities. Our particular community,
Baker Carroll Point, is highlighted in yellow.
And forgive me for going to this extent of detail, but I want to
make sure we're starting at the same point.
Baker Carroll Point is comprised of 10 condo buildings,
approximately 700 condo units or tax paying, you know, entities.
There's approximately 40, you know, acres. We are, you know,
private, and we are gated.
In a quick-- and our petition, of course, addresses only Baker
Carroll Point. As a sideline point of information, all the other
properties north of Bluebill, to the best of my knowledge, are also
private, gated communities as well.
A quick chronology of the events that took place leading us
here. The particular ordinance that was passed creating the VBB
MSTU was dated July of 2001, so we're very close to two years since
the MSTU was created.
First clue of any kind that the MSTU even existed occurred in
August of'02, 12 months later, when all of us received a proposed
tax notification. That's the standard document that comes in the mail,
and it indicates what the proposed taxes are going to be. And if we
taxpayers have any objection to it, to come forward and say so.
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June 1 O, 2003
Please note that the only identification here of a tax increase is
on the municipal services taxing unit line, which has always been
there. It increased by approximately 91 percent in my particular
case, and I suspect that that's generally true across the board.
Going forward, I point this out because even at this point there
is no identification of a new MSTU that's been established, which has
generated, you know, the 91 percent increase in the tax rate.
Following up with that, of course, the normal bill, you know,
arrived in the mail, and we paid it.
Moving forward -- excuse me -- in February of this year, which
is now 18 months after the creation of the MSTU, we were notified
by a mailing initiated by Mr. Lydon and his committee that there
would be a meeting of the -- to discuss the potential uses of the funds
being generated for the MSTU. That meeting took place on March
the -- the 19th.
Just prior to that I sent a request along with other signatures as
well as my own to Mr. Lydon's attention requesting that we be
considered for a safety item that we were engaging in at our own
expense within our community.
He promptly responded on March the 20th, and the words were,
and I'll quote specifically -- is that a reading of the ordinance
covering your MSTU would, unfortunately, not permit money to be
spent within a gated community. Excuse me. Let me repeat that. I
do not -- would not, unfortunately, permit money to be spent within a
gated community.
So we now have -- the issue is fairly clearly defined, you know,
that we are in a position where we are being taxed for services that
we -- where we cannot obtain any direct benefit, you know, from it.
And, you know, that led us to pulling together a petition -- excuse me
again -- which was delivered here by Mary Lou (sic) Carrigan on
April the 8th of this year basically because we did not understand
what the procedure was, the protocol for formally presenting a
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June 10, 2003
petition to you.
But the document and the petition signatures was delivered at
that time, and I think has been redelivered to you again over this
weekend.
I have some additional petition signatures to leave with you
today, so we have some, over 300 petitioners who have indicated that
they wish to be disconnected, if you will, from the Vanderbilt Beach
MSTU.
The core issue is, you know, really quite simple, to state we are
being taxed for services that are unavailable because of our private,
you know, gated status. I think an analogy of that might be, if you
would, if we were being taxed for a school district where we could
not send our children to school, you know, that would be considered,
I think by most people, to be unfair and inappropriate taxation. I see
no real difference between what we have here in front of us.
I believe there is a precedence also for approval of the petition
that we're bringing forward, and I understand that recently the
Kensington Lakes Community was disconnected, if you will, from
the Livingston Road MSTU.
If I may go quickly to the final item, the process of gathering
this information. I found what I believed to be an improper
application of the rules and regulations that have been defined by
your own ordinance, 2001-043, as far as taxation money, you know,
being accumulated, and reserved.
MS. FILSON: Do you need some water?
MR. McELVAIN: Thank you very much.
Accumulated for unspecified capital development projects. The
reason this is significant that -- reviewing the minutes of the MSTU
committee meetings as well as the budget that's been established or is
in the process of being approved, I found that 80 percent of the funds
were being set aside for an -- undefined future capital projects.
The point is -- and this has been on the table through Jim Mudd,
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June 10, 2003
you know, to the county attorney, that I believe those taxes are
completely inappropriate and un-- not authorized by your own
ordinance.
I have not heard back, you know, from the county attorney,
who's -- I'm given to understand, has the matter, you know, for
review and response, and that's been over 30 days. So one might
conclude that there is no response to that.
And there was a matter for your attention as far as the proper
and appropriate taxation and what's being done with the money.
That essentially concludes my formal presentation. I'm sure you
have questions, comments, that I'd be more than happy to participate
in.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Questions, comments from the
commissioners?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioners Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: About how much are you taxed
now
on your MSTU?
MR. McELVAIN:
COMMISSIONER
MR. McELVAIN:
COMMISSIONER
MR. McELVAIN:
My personal tax?
HALAS' Yes.
For the VBB MSTU?
HALAS: Yes.
Approximately a hundred dollars.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: A hundred dollars, okay. You live
in that community, and how do you get out of that community there,
your gated community?
MR. McELVAIN: We exit through a -- an entrance, exit, which
is right at the north end of-- of Gulf Shore Boulevard.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. So you actually travel
through that neighborhood then when you're traveling around to get
in and out of your gated community.
My understanding is, I think -- correct me if I'm wrong -- but I
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June 1 O, 2003
think there is a provision in an MSTU where there can be money
spent for certain projects in a gated community. Am I correct on
that?
MR. MANALICH: Well, in discussion with Mr. Weigel, I
mean, our office's view is that as long as the MSTU funds are used in
the area as a whole, and even if you're within a gated subdivision,
you are still having the benefits that are being spent for -- in the area
as a whole. You are still -- it's not like a benefit where it has to be
even more direct -- of a direct benefit.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay, thank you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. The gentleman referred,
number one, to the school system. And he said, if there weren't any
children, they shouldn't be taxed. Everybody in the county, together,
supports our school system because we all have a benefit from that.
But let me go on to say that in East Naples, for instance, that
area I know best, and none of us, none of us get a -- if we had an
MSTU to pay for as far as Davis Boulevard and U.S. 41, I think we
would all eagerly do that because it enhances our community. True,
none of us live on U.S. 41 or Davis Boulevard, but we all enjoy the
beauty and the ambiance that it creates.
And I want to say also that one of the things that draw most
people here from other areas is the ambiance of our community. And
if we want to maintain that and continue it, we all have to participate
in funding it.
MR. McELVAIN: Might I clarify. Apparently I didn't say
something clearly. As far as the relevance of the school tax, what I
thought I said was that this would be like paying a tax for a school
but my children were not allowed to go there. You know, that is the
analogy that I'm bringing forward.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Well, in this case you're allowed
to go in that area. Now, if there was a blighted area, it would have a
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June 1 O, 2003
direct impact on your property values. So therefore, with the advent
of this MSTU, I'm sure that it's going to enhance your property
values because that draws to the surrounding area when you -- as
Commissioner Fiala stated, the ambiance of that particular area will
be enhanced.
And I'm sure that the funds that are being generated are going to
be distributed throughout the whole MSTU there so that everybody
gets basically equal value in regards to the enhancements that are put
forth by that MSTU.
MR. McELVAIN: May I respond to that, Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Sure.
MR. McELVAIN: For the current two years that the MSTU has
been in place, and according to a budget to be presented for next
year, the only moneys being expended for beautification purposes are
for the streets that -- for Vanderbilt Drive south from Bluebill, I'm
sorry -- south from there, you know, to the -- one mile and a half,
you know, to the Vanderbilt Beach Drive intersection.
Some $65,000 has been spent for the last two years, will be
spent again next year for maintenance of landscaping that has been
apparently put in place prior to by the county.
So over three years' time none of the moneys that you're talking
about will be expended for any other purpose than to benefit the
finger streets, you know, that extend south -- extend to the west on
Vanderbilt Drive.
We are approximately six-tenths of a mile -- the exit or entrance
to our property is six-tenths of a mile from the closest point where
any of that will -- has taken place or will over the -- the full three
years of the existence of the MSTU.
So I would -- I would question what possible benefit is going to
accrue to us along the lines of what you're bringing up.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Well, I believe -- I'm a little bit
familiar with that MSTU, but you were talking about that there's
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June 10, 2003
funds that are being set aside for future projects. And I think they've
got -- I believe that MSTU has got some pretty aggressive plans, and
that's in regards to sidewalks and some streetlighting and some other
ideas that they came up with, so I really think it's a benefit to not
only your community, but to the whole surrounding area there.
MR. McELVAIN: Sir, the use of the funds that I'm speaking of,
you know, the 1.3 million, have not been identified anywhere in any
minutes of their meetings nor in any budget document.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, just to give you -- and Mr.
McElvain has some rather poignant points. What I will tell you is
that MSTU is in the process of developing a master plan, okay, to lay
out all their landscaping and whatnot from what I've been told from
staff.
If you take a look at the visualizer out in front of you, this area
is the area that Mr. McElvain said that he had a project. And I want
to point to the areas that I'm showing right here. Outside of this
green line but not up onto Bluebill, and that basically is how they get
their access point out of their-- of their area.
That area in there is -- yes, he's right about, you can't use it
within the gated portion of the community; however, that area is not
gated and is an area that could benefit from this particular MSTU.
And I want to get in -- and I want to come in a little bit more
into a slide real fast. You can see -- you can see their area, and it's
well maintained, okay? If you take a look from here on over, it looks
well groomed. And that area that I was talking about on that street
over here to Bluebill is an area that falls outside of their gated
community and can be -- and can be put into that master plan in order
to do that.
Now, I want to -- just to give you a point of reference so I can
put the next slide up and you'll know where I'm going. You'll see
that white fence, looks like a white picket fence right here, okay?
I'm going to drop -- I'm going to drop this slide on right now. And
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June 10, 2003
you see that white picket fence.
And because this MSTU -- excuse me -- this community goes
on basically a dead-end street, they came forward to the county for a
gate to be put on county property, okay, to get a right-of-way permit
in order to put that gate for their particular community.
So I'm going to say to you, the fence line over is that gated
community. That street over to the edge going back into this area in
here is not within their gated community. Even though it's -- it's
within the gate, but the gate is on county property.
So that, Mr. -- the letter that he got from Mr. Lydon was
incorrect that that property that that gate sits on could have been --
could have been an area where they could have used the MSTU
particular funds.
So we've done some research, and I've got staff looking at that,
and I -- one of the things that, with the help of Mr. McElvain, we can
get involved in that master plan and make sure that this particular
area is included in that process to make sure that they do reap some
direct benefit from that process. But I'll throw that at you as a point.
The reason they haven't spent the dollars is because they're
doing that master plan right now in order to figure out exactly where
it needs to be laid out.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Mr. McElvain, I want to
thank you for being here with us this morning to bring this to our
attention.
MR. McELVAIN: May I ask where this goes from here, what
happens next?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Well, I haven't heard any direction to
bring it back to the Board of Commissioners of what you're asking us
to do. So it dies, failing from-- a commitment from three
commissioners. But I -- again, I do want to thank you from -- for
bringing this to our attention. Looking forward to seeing the master --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Plan.
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June 1 O, 2003
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- landscaping plan, and I -- and I do
-- and I will get over to your community to take a look at that gate on
county property. Thank you.
MR. McELVAIN: May I ask what happens with my challenge
to the very appropriateness of the tax that's being imposed?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: You can take it to the Court, sir,
from here.
MR. McELVAIN: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
We're going to take a seven-minute break for the court reporter.
And we have a 10:30 time certain, so that will be at 10:43.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir.
(A recess was taken.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Everybody take their seats, please.
Item #8B
RESOLUTION 2003-211 APPROVING THE GOODLAND
WATER SUB-DISTRICT RATE STUDY AND INCREASING THE
GOODLAND WATER SUB-DISTRICT RATES, WHICH IS
SCHEDULE TWO OF APPENDIX A TO SECTION FOUR OF
THE COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 2001-73,
PROVIDING DF, IJAYF, D EFFFJCTIVE DATES-ADOPTF, D
The next item is 8(B), to approve the Goodland Water District--
or Water Sub-district Rate Study and adopt a resolution increasing
the Goodland water sub-district rates.
Mr. James DeLony, thank you for being here today.
MR. DeLONY: Good morning, Commissioners. For the record,
I'm Jim DeLony, public utilities division administrator.
We're here today to present the results and recommendations of
the Goodland Water District (sic) Rate Study.
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June 10, 2003
The Board of County Commissioners adopted, on September
23rd, 1997, ordinance number 97-48, titled the Collier County
Water/Sewer District Uniform Utility Operating and Regulatory
Standards Ordinance which established the existing water rates for
the Goodland water district.
On December 11,2001, the board adopted ordinance number
2001-73, titled the Collier County Water/Sewer District Uniform
Billing and Regulatory Standards Ordinance which established new
user rates for the Collier County Water/Sewer District but left the
user rates for the Goodland water district unchanged.
At that time the board directed staff to update the user rates of
the Goodland water district after one year. Accordingly, staff has
worked with the rate consultants, the Public Resource Management
Group, PRMG, to prepare an update to the water user rates of the
Goodland water district. And, again, these rates have remained
unchanged since 1997.
The Goodland water district service -- water district service area
has separate rates, fees, and charges. The Goodland water district
service area is not physically or financially connected with other
facilities or revenues within the Collier County Water/Sewer District.
Potable water supplied to the customers of the Goodland water
district is purchased at bulk rate from Florida Water Services
Corporation and is distributed to facilities owned by the Goodland
water district.
Customers in the Goodland water district are not required to pay
water impact fees to the county or to Florida Water Services, and are
not required to pay to the county or to Florida Water Services any
fees or charges in lieu of impact fees.
The impact fee cost to water ser -- Florida Water Services plant
capacity allocated to these customers, in effect, is included in the
bulk rate charges of the Florida Water Services.
To date we reviewed the Goodland Water Service District Rate
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June 1 O, 2003
Study that we're presenting today to you with the Goodland Civic
Association, the productivity committee, and representatives of the
Key Marco Community Development District.
Today our presentation will take a three-pronged approach.
Tom Wides, public utilities operation director, will provide a brief
overview of the history of the Goodland water district; Pam Libby,
manager of our public utilities water distribution department will
provide a brief description of the system features and operations;
then Robert Ori, a principal with the Rate Study Consultants Public
Resources Management Group and the lead consultant for last
February's Collier County Water/Sewer District Rate Study will
present the results and recommendations of the Goodland Water
District Rate Study.
Also here today to assist me and to answer any questions that
you may have are public utilities division team members, Paul
Mattausch, water director, Roy Anderson, engineering director,
Alicia Abbott, engineering project manager, and assistant Collier
County attorney, Tom Palmer.
With that, Commissioners, with your permission, I'll turn this
podium over to Mr. Wides.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
MR. WIDES: Commissioners, good morning. For the record,
my name is Tom Wides. I'm the operations director for public
utilities.
This morning I'd like to outline to you the -- a brief presentation
of the history of the Goodland water district and hit some of the
pertinent points.
First, as you can see on the visualizer, the Board of County
Commissioners created the Goodland water district under ordinance
75-5 in February of 1975.
The intent of that ordinance was to give power to levy ad
valorem taxes to provide a sufficient water supply to the district.
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June 1 O, 2003
In April, 1980, the Board of County Commissioners enacted
emergency ordinance 80-43. It amended ordinance 75-5 and created
an MS -- MSTBU, a municipal services taxing and benefit unit,
specifically to allow the use of a special assessment to fund the
necessary water supply improvements on Goodland.
At a -- at a very similar point in time, a water purchase
agreement was negotiated with Deltona Utilities. That is the utility
that was servicing Marco Island in that period of time. You'll see as
we go through here, there is a transition from one utility to another.
But after that, in May of 1992, the Key Marco Community
Development District was established.
In October of 1992, the community development district entered
into an interlocal agreement with the Collier County Water/Sewer
District to provide water service to the CDD.
In October of 1993, the Collier County Water/Sewer District
entered into an agreement with Southern States Utilities. They
basically -- that was Deltona becoming Southern States Utilities to
provide bulk water to the Goodland tank for Key Marco and
Goodland.
Finally, in May of 1994, an agreement between the CDD, the
community development district of Key Marco, and the Collier
County Water/Sewer District, came into a place, was approved by the
board for construction and upgrades to the Goodland pump station
and the State Road 92 water main to provide service to the CDD.
In a moment we'll give you a little geographic depiction to help
understand how that's set up.
At that point, in that agreement in May of 1994, the CDD
agreed to pay $850,000 for adequate pressure and quantity and
quality of water to the community development district.
In October 1999, a settlement agreement between the CDD and
the Collier County Water/Sewer District included a refund of
$132,000 and reimbursement of $36,000 of impact fees to the CDD
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June 10, 2003
that had been collected prior, and finally, the CDD also agreed to pay
an outstanding approximate $24,000 of service bills.
The items that really happened between May of 1994 and
October of 1995 are critical. At that -- during that period of time it
was determined by the water/sewer district, the Collier County
Water/Sewer District, that it was not going to be economically
feasible to -- in fact, to try to run a line all the way down from 41,
down to the Goodland area. So in fact, that '99 agreement terminated
the 1994 agreement.
If there are any other questions, I'd like to respond to those
before I turn the podium over to Pam Libby.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Any questions by the members of
the board?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Ms. Libby.'?
MR. WIDES: Kady -- there we go. Thank you.
MS. LIBBY: Good morning, Commissioners. Pam Libby, water
distribution manager.
It is my team's responsibility to ensure the successful transport
of water from the point of entry into the Goodland water district until
it reaches the point of entry into each of our customers' homes and
facilities.
This morning I will be presenting a brief overview of the
mechanics of how this task is accomplished.
As has been explained, water's purchased in bulk from the
Florida Water Services Corporation. Florida Water meters this
purchase through a 10 inch by six inch meter near the Stephen's
Landing Development. What is up on your screen right now is a
picture of that 10 inch by six inch meter.
Water is then moved through a 10 inch water main which runs
through the Moran's Barge Marina parking lot to the Goodland
repump station.
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June 10, 2003
No customers of the Goodland water district receive water until
it has been retreated and repressurized at this station.
Water flows into the ground storage tank as it enters the facility,
which is the next picture up for you. After it is in the ground storage
tank, if demand calls for it, it is then sent to the chemical storage
area.
At this portion of the facility, it is given a dose of sodium
hypochlorite. This is typically called bleach and is generated on site.
Water is then boosted and pressured through the use of four
hydro constant pumps and sent on to our customers.
Just prior to exiting the station, the water goes through a
pressure regulating device that allows us to provide one pressure to
Key Marco area and one pressure to the Goodland proper area.
All activities at the station are monitored 24 hours a day by the
South County Regional Water Treatment Plant via telemetry.
After this point the water is then transported through a series of
water mains, valves, service lines and meters on to its ultimate
destination, our customers' homes.
The repump station is required, due to the distance that the
water must travel from its source, which is the water treatment plant
on Marco Island, onto the island of Goodland. The water needs to
have an additional dose of chemicals in order to meet the Department
of Environmental Protection's requirements in this area.
The water also needs to be pumped to provide a higher pressure
in order to meet the requirements of our agreement with the Key
Marco area, which is to provide a consistent 70 pounds per square
inch of pressure at all times, as well as to be able to provide
firefighting capabilities on both Goodland and the Key Marco area.
The station is located on the waterway, as you can see from the
map, and that closeness to the water increases the stress on the station
components due to the corrosive nature of the salt water.
Staff is requesting that several major projects be undertaken at
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June 1 O, 2003
this time to ensure the safety of our staff while working at this
facility and a consistent and high quality water source for our
customers.
The renewal project can be broken down into three different
components. The first is the replacement of six valves which are
inoperable at this time. Four of these valves are in place in order to
allow work to be completed on the four hydro constants which are
the pumping capability at this facility.
Currently with those valves inoperable, whenever work is to be
performed on one of the pumps, employees must be standing in the
water as it continues to flow out of the pump casing while
surrounded by electrical equipment. This is a very unsafe situation.
The valve replacement portion's rehabilitation is moving
forward at this time. Bids have been solicited and staff will be
returning to you shortly for the approval of a work order to complete
this portion of the rehabilitation.
The second component of the project that we are proposing is a
replacement of the four hydro constant pumps. Each of the hydro
constants is in excess of 15 years old, and replacement parts are no
longer available on the shelf.
Any time a parts needs to be procured, it has to be specially
fabricated, which leads to a long lead time to gain the part as well as
a high cost.
The final portion of the renewal project that we are proposing is
the replacement of electrical components. The electrical components
are all original equipment to the station. And due to increasing rate
of failure, it is necessary to replace this equipment at this time.
Staff has hired the engineering firm of Greeley (phonetic) and
Hanson to examine the station, confirm the requested repairs are
needed, and develop a project budget. This project budget is one of
the driving forces behind the requested rate increase that you are
about to hear about today.
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June 1 O, 2003
I will now turn the presentation over to Mr. Ori. He will take
you through the actual rate study that has been completed. Thank you.
MR. ORI: Members of the commission, good morning. My
name is Robert Ori. I'm a principal with Public Resources
Management Group. It's a pleasure to see you again.
What I'd like to do is spend the next several minutes talking
about the proposed rate adjustment, as soon as we can get the slide
show here. Thank you.
What I'd like to do today is spend a few minutes and talk about
the purpose of the rate study, some of the rate issues -- you already
heard some of them a little while ago about the capital needs required
for the facilities serving the Goodland service area -- the demands
that are -- we're seeing on the system, water sales, things of that
nature, the revenue requirements, which is the utility expenditures
that we need to recover from rates, including the capital program,
loans, and the reasons for these rate adjustments, discuss the existing
rate design of proposed rates as well as talk to you about some of the
customer impacts, that if you adopted rates, what we would foresee
from -- the effects to be on our customers.
The purpose of the rate study basically today is, present to you
our findings that we developed with dealing with the financial
forecast of the system, and it really deals with what I call the rate
sufficiency analysis. Are the rates sufficient to meet the overall
definitive needs of the utility, and if they're not, what should we do.
Obviously, we also want to make changes relative to the rates and the
rate structure themselves.
We want to make sure, as with any rate structure that is to be
presented back to the water and the sewer district, is that our rates
recover the cost of operations of the utility system. Additionally,
we've got to make sure -- you heard some discussion today about the
capital improvement program. We have to make sure that we have
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June 1 O, 2003
adequate funding to fund those improvements, which I'll talk about in
a minute how much that will cost.
Also, we want to maintain the financial stability of the system,
i.e., have additional adequate working capital reserves on hand.
Then, obviously, you want to develop proposed rates, recognizing
historical practices as well as the conservation of resources.
The financial forecast that we prepared included the five-year
period of fiscal year 2003, the current year we're in today, through
2008. And the primary reason, as we did with the water and sewer
district, is we wanted to identify trends and see -- and rate phasing
alternatives and whatnot to try to give you some thought and --
relative to how we can make sure that we have sufficient rates to
meet our capital needs.
Our analysis included service area demands, operating expenses,
and the funding of the capital improvements. Essentially, are the
rates adequate.
Let's talk about the demands a little bit. This is a very interesting
system. During the fiscal year 2002, there's about a little over 290
customers or accounts being served by the district, and that equates
to about 415 meter equivalents. For example, a five-eighths inch or
three-quarter meter would be one meter equivalent, an eight inch
meter would be equivalent of 80 RCs based on information provided
by the American Waterworks Association, and also used by the
Florida Public Service Commission.
That kind of gives you a feel of the customers served.
Approximately 90 percent of our customers are three-quarter--
three-quarter or five-eighths inch meters in the -- in the district area;
however, when you look at water use per customer, you can see that
over 50 percent of the water uses (sic) is exhibited by nine
customers, two inch customers. In fact, those -- that 90 percent of
the customers actually only use about 26 percent of the water out
there. So there's a complete shift in customers served versus water
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June 1 O, 2003
use in this district. It's very interesting.
In terms of the forecast of growth, there is some anticipated
growth that has been recognized. The Calusa Island Village, which
includes a hotel, some other appurtenances, the Goodland Park, et
cetera, but those are pretty speculative right now, and if they do
occur, it would probably be near the tail end of our forecast not the
beginning of our forecast. And as you'll see, we're going to be asking
for some rate relief, and, therefore, we have excluded these two
items.
There's also about 80 lots to be developed in Key Marco Island,
and there's some additional growth, I believe, in the Goodland area.
Growth is really not a major issue in our forecast. We only
assume about two customers per -- a year. A growth rate of less than
one percent. Again, most of the growth we see will be near the tail
end of the forecast not the beginning of the forecast, and that's kind
of why we did that at this point in time.
The revenue requirements, you probably heard me tell you that
term before, that's the total expenditures that we need to recover from
rates. That would include operations and maintenance expenses. We
want to establish what we call a renewal and replacement account
that's really a -- more of a capital account to start setting aside
moneys to replace system assets as they wear out, somewhat like we
talked about today. You saw the capital improvements today that --
with replacement of items that were 15 years old, we want to start
establishing an account for that.
Another good example would be meter replacements and things
of that nature, which benefit existing customers. And we project
about a $10,000 deposit into that account of 2003.
The capital project that was discussed here earlier really benefits
the existing system. It's not there for growth. As you heard the
discussion today, pump replacements, the electrical replacement,
they're all existing assets benefitting existing customers.
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June 10, 2003
And that cost is about 500 to $550,000 to do those
improvements that were mentioned today. It's quite a significant
amount of cost. Again, we have 293 customers out there.
To give you an idea of the six-year capital improvement
program that you see on your screen is about $567,000, of which
really 550 are the three major projects that were described to you
earlier.
We did allow an allowance, about $17,000 for continued R&R,
or renewals and replacements. And what we really did is any
deposits we assumed were spent for some future need. So it's really
not an identified cost at this point, but we didn't want to accrue funds
and have earnings on those funds.
How we're going to fund or propose to fund this $550,000
improvement is we want to use cash on hand. Right now the system
has been $500,000 of operating cash in the system, and we want to
pull out $350,000 and immediately start the program. The first
question will probably be, 500,000 in, 550, why don't you use all
500?
Well, as I'll show you later, we want to phase in rates, number
one, because we need rate relief, but number two, if you take all the
$500,000 out, we have no cash, and we all know we can't operate a
system with no cash.
So we want to pull about $350,000 from the cash on hand, it's
about 44 percent of the project, and then enter into what I call a loan,
a bank loan, a short-term loan, to try to fund the rest and spread the
remaining payment over about a 1 O-year period. And you can see on
your screen there what the relationship is on that capital program.
This is the system revenue requirements that we've identified.
And I want to just point out some items here that are of interest. The
first line you see is the operating expenses, about 420 to $450,000 or
so. Included in that line, the most -- the single largest cost that's in
there is the cost of purchased water from Florida Water Services
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June 1 O, 2003
Authority. And that makes up about 50 percent of that line by itself,
it's just the purchase of the Florida Water, to get a basis of the tank
before we repump, maintain the system, et cetera, to give you an idea
of what the magnitude of those purchases are.
You can also see on the third line down, this deposit, the R&R
fund, we want to build it up over time. And the loan repayment I
talked about, that $200,000 is on line two, and we project to incur
that loan somewhere in 2004 and begin repayment of about $26,000
a year.
The other point I want to make, if you look at line one, the
$400,000 operating expenses, and you look down the chart to see rate
revenue from existing rates, that's about $300,000. And the point is,
our revenues from rates don't even cover our operating expenses at
this point in time. We're operating at a loss, so we have to do
something if you want to get this utility to a break-even system, rates
to expenditures. We're not even covering our operating expenses.
In fact, the purchase water costs account for about 70 percent of
our rate revenue as it exists today. And as you saw, we have a major
capital improvement coming down the pike here. So those are the
major issues.
The other point I mentioned earlier, I didn't want to take all the
cash out, if you look at about the eighth line down or so, you'll see a
cash on hand of $102,000. The phase-in rates, I want to use some
cash and levelize (sic) it out. We don't want to do a rate increase in
2003. We want to effectuate a rate increase effective 2004, October
1, consistent with the water/sewer district.
And so we're actually utilizing cash to -- because our operating
costs are greater than our revenues, we're utilizing our operating
reserves to meet our needs.
That kind of gives you a picture of the revenue requirements.
And as you can see at the very bottom, this is annual deficiency, not
a cumulative deficiency. We're not short $145,000 in '04, and then
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164. This is cumulative, just so you know. But you can get a feel for
what the impact is.
Although it's not a large dollar number, you think 296 (sic)
customers, it's significant to the amount of customers that are served,
and that's why I wanted to point that out to you earlier.
Why do we need the rate adjustment? I mentioned the rates are
under recovering the cost of operating expenses. I mentioned the 50
percent of the purchased water. We haven't raised rates since 1997.
There's a pass-through provision in our rate tariff that allows us to
raise rates as Florida Water raises rates. We haven't effectuated that
either.
Although there's been some increases in Florida Water, there
hasn't been a significant rate adjustment. It's mostly been passed
through, type of thing.
Continued cost of inflation in operations. We all know that one.
Basically the major driver would be the capital improvement
program, the $200,000 we need to fund, plus the use of the reserves
to fund the other part of the capital improvement. And also, we want
to maintain cash on hand. I think it's a good idea to have at least 60
days of revenues, a very small system, in the bank, or $100,000. And
we want to build that back up.
Actually, this plan calls for us going down to about $45,000 of
cash and then bringing it back up so we'll break even again around
110,000, 120,000 in the last year of the forecast, unless we have a lot
of growth.
So that's kind of what we've done. We've kind of done a
u-shaped effect of cash balances to bring the rates to effect.
The existing rates kind of give you an idea of what's out there
today. There's some interesting things. Some are very common to
our utility -- the district's utility. You'll see a meter-base rate and a
volumetric rate. The meter-base is pretty common, three-quarter--
you know, base it by meter, the size of the meter.
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June 10, 2003
Interesting, it's a flat volumetric rate, $3.92 per thousand
gallons. All gallons billed are charged a flat rate. As you -- we had
discussions before about water conservation. South Florida Water
Management District, you can see there's no conservation rate
structure here.
Also, the last half of this chart, you'll see the adder or the
indexing allowed in your ordinance or resolution relative to the
adjustments for Florida Water rates. But keep in mind the structure
here. We're going to come back to that.
What we are recommending is you maintain somewhat of that
structure, that base facility of volumetric-type rate, but that you
established the conservation rates similar to what your district has,
and also maintaining the purchase water adjustment clause with some
minor revisions. As I mentioned, that's 50 percent of your operating
expenses. We have no control, so we want to make sure that we
maintain that.
This is the proposed rates as you see right -- that we're
recommending today. You can see the base charge is maintained.
This is just for the three-quarter inch meter, which is, you know, the
majority of your customers, 90 percent of your customer. The base
charge will go from $16 to $25 and that the usage charge would
follow the same blocks as your existing water and sewer district.
And as you can see on the scale, the first rate would actually drop
slightly and then invert quite significantly to over 50,000 gallons.
The second year we have another increase in the volumetric rate
but no increase in the base charge. This is a significant rate
adjustment. As you can see just looking at the base charge alone, it's
a $9 increase on a $16 rate. That's pretty significant. But that's the
kind of-- with this type of system, that's the kind of rates you need
right now to make this thing work.
What's the impact to the customers? It's probably pretty
important, because it shows you where the rates -- how the customers
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June 1 O, 2003
will be affected first with the first part of the increase, the second part
of the rate increase, at low-end and high-end usage levels.
If you look at the first column under 5,000 gallons, the existing
rates produce a bill about $35.60 a month. The 2004 rates would
increase that bill by about $7 to $42.50. It's about a 19 percent rate
adjustment.
The second year, add another $4, another 9 percent. We're,
overall, about $11 increase over the two-year period, about 31
percent.
I'll turn to the B side of the record and go to the 100,000 gallon
range, that's the two end points on this graph. A person using
100,000 gallons under a three-quarter inch meter would see their bill
go up by about 88 percent. It's significant, almost a doubling of the
rate. In fact, when you layer in the second part, it would actually
double because of the conservation rates.
To give you another idea -- I'm going to go backwards here. I
think this will work.
If you looked at the existing proposed rate structure, one
question you may have would be, what happens if all usage stayed
the same, we didn't have the conservation rate even though we know
the districts want that, all the utilities around this area have this
basically. The three ninety-two rate would probably need to go to at
least $5.60 a thousand, and then to about $6.70 a thousand, assuming
the revenue requirements we have.
What that would do is we obviously would shift dollars away
from the 100,000, 50,000 gallon high-end users to the low-end users,
is what would happen there. That's to give you an idea what those
rates are.
In comparison, the Goodland district area does have fairly high
rates. As you can see in the aqua bar there, the $35.60 -- this is for
the typical 5,000 gallon user, which is 90 percent of our customers.
But when you look at that rate compared to the blue bar to the
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June 10, 2003
left of us, that's the Marco Island water and sewer rates, and we
purchase our water from Marco Island, Florida Water Services
Authority. I call it Marco Island, but it's the Marco Island system.
And we purchase it from there. And you can see their retail
rates. They're almost identical. And we have yet -- when you think
about it, we haven't added our costs on top of that for our cost of
maintenance, billing, administration, capital improvements.
And you can see where those two rates are. So it's intuitive you
think our rate would be higher, recognizing some of their rate. But
you can see that the red bar would be the proposed rates, and actually
it's at the higher end of the scale, obviously.
Why are these rates different and why are we so high?
Obviously with small systems, the size of the customer base means a
lot. As you can imagine, 300 customers -- if you have a $10,000
expenditure to get from 300 customers, that can be significant.
The source of the water; the Marco Island system is a very
complex system. My understanding, I think it's a reverse osmosis,
lime softening facility, draws their water, I think, from a lime pit,
long ways to transmit this water, and a lot of utilities don't have that.
The renews and replacements. We already talked about that, the
needs.
And grant funding. How much grants have you gotten?
Obviously we haven't gotten much.
And there's other items, administrative fee transfers, bond
covenants, things like that. That affects these rates.
But I've seen this with-- especially with other Florida Water
Services rates, they have a lot of small systems across the state.
They also have very high rates from their smaller systems. I don't
have those with me, but I could get those and show you those.
But let me give you another-- I did this graph to kind of show
you again. This is the 5,000 gallon user who would get the best rate
adjustment. And this shows that since 1997, since we last changed
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June 1 O, 2003
the rates, that if we applied inflation to the rates, if you look to the far
right, the $41.78, that would be the rate produced if we just indexed
the rates for the CPI inflated (sic).
The proposed rates are about $46. So although we're higher,
we're kind of in that inflation area relationship at the 5,000 gallon
level. Obviously, at the higher end level, no way. We're a lot higher
than inflation.
Our recommendations to the staff and to the board would be to
review the plan of finance and the rate adjustments and the rate
structure revisions. Even if we didn't do rate structure revisions, we
need to do something to maintain financial stability, and I'm here to
ask -- answer questions regarding that if you would like to talk about
some alternatives or whatever; however, if you do something, you
need to do it as soon as practical. We're losing money now. And our
recommendation was October 1st, 2003, with a second increase on
October 1st, 2004, over 12 months after you effectuate a rate
adjustment.
As with your other system, I would recognize -- I would
recommend reevaluating this every year. For example, if the cost of
improvements were less than 550 or higher, that's going to have a
significant impact here, and I think it's good just to keep an eye on
this till we get through this R&R program.
And with that, other than for questions or discussions, I'll turn it
back over to Jim.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. I've been to -- I think this is
the third time I've heard the presentation, by the way. MR. DeLONY: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: It's been interesting each time.
The residents of Key Marco, residents and administration for
Key Marco have asked that we consider postponing this item until
the end of July, and they would like to step up now and give you
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June 1 O, 2003
their reasoning behind that.
-- hear their presentation.
Cox.
And I would ask that we could hear their
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Public speakers?
MS. FILSON: Mr. Chairman, I have one public speaker, Daniel
MR. COX: Good morning, Commissioners. My name is Dan
Cox. I'm an attorney with the firm Young, van Assenderp, Varnadoe
and Anderson. I serve as general counsel to the Key Marco
Community Development District. It's a local government who has
the responsibility for maintaining the surface water management
system and other infrastructures within the Key Marco community.
As Mr. Wides indicated, the history behind the Key Marco
Relationship with the Goodland water services district is a little bit
tortured. The '94 agreement was entered into under the
misconception that we were within the county's water services area
and not within Florida Water Services.
There was some dispute over whether the '94 agreement had
been lived up to by the county. We asserted some claims against the
county and entered into the '99 agreement, which was termed the
settlement agreement and release.
Mr. Wides went over some of the provisions of that agreement,
but one other provision that was not brought to light --
MR. MUDD: Hang on. It's coming. Where do you want me to
go?
MR. COX: Very bottom.
MR. MUDD: Bottom, got it.
MR. COX: In paragraph three, the last clause on this page
begins, moreover, the CDD and developer acknowledge that the
county will charge the CDD and/or individual customers the county's
cost to buy the bulk water from Florida Water Services plus a
reasonable administrative fee.
There is no room to interpret that to allow you to do capital
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June 10, 2003
improvements and fund those through water rate charges to the end
users, including the Key Marco Community Development District,
under our reading of this agreement, and really don't see how it can
be interpreted any other way.
If this rate change does go through, we will be forced to look at
what our remedies are under this agreement and go forward from
there.
But from another more practical perspective, what I'm
concerned about for the county's sake in this particular bill is that, as
they indicated, we've got approximately 60 million gallons being
used out at Goodland water services area.
The Key Marco district uses approximately 25 million gallons
of this water. We have been looking at, the past year, the feasibility
of putting in ground water source irrigation wells to use that water as
opposed to the potable water we're acquiring from Goodland water
services district for irrigation of our common areas, which accounts
for an extremely large amount of our usage.
If you pull that 25 million gallons of usage out and recompute
your percentage of total consumption, what you're going to find is
that your five-eighths inch meters and your three-quarters inch
meters are actually using about 50 percent of the water that would be
left and sold in that system.
When you go back to your system revenue requirements just for
2004, you're looking at trying to recover a revenue shortfall of about
$146,000.
Now, if you pull our $110,000 a year revenue out of this picture
and the 90,000, roughly, costs that we are imposing on the system by
you having to acquire bulk water to service us, that number's going to
go to about $166,000 that -- 50 percent of that is going to be
recovered from your five-eighths inch and three-eighths inch metered
users.
So you're looking at about 85,000 more dollars that you're going
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June 1 O, 2003
to have to recover from those people, and that's going to result in the
last graph that you were shown about usage down in Marco -- in
costs down in Goodland for the end users in this system going up
probably another 30, $32 above the 42.50 that they're proposing, or
about 57 bucks a month, as opposed to this 42.50.
I think that's showing that structurally the Goodland water
services district cannot sustain itself at any type of reasonable rate
fee.
And I think that what we would ask the county to consider is to
work with us over the next couple of weeks. We have the permits to
sink our wells. Mr. Jim Roth is here, he's the president of the
homeowners' associations out at Key Marco. He has an appointment
to go and talk to the financial people about giving money to do the
project.
We're going to move forward with that in either regard. And we
think that the rate study should be revisited and potentially that either
merger of this district with the overall water services district, whether
it be done physically or administratively, would be a much more
viable alternative than trying to recover these costs through a rate
increase to the end users out there, even if it is permissible. Thank
you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you. I guess that proposes a
lot of questions to our staff, if Commissioner Fiala doesn't mind.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Go ahead.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: If Key Marco does find alternative
sources for their irrigation, does that negate the need for some of the
improvements extended out? What does that do for --
MR. DeLONY: I'm going to answer the question two ways.
First I'm going to have Pam Libby talk from an operational
perspective with regard to the required rehabilitation works, then I'll
have Tom talk carefully -- Mr. Wides talk to the financial
implications, and then I'll summarize that answer.
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June 10, 2003
Pam, start, please.
MS. LIBBY: On the operational end, we started with the flat
replacement of the valves, and whether we're servicing one customer
or whether we're servicing the bulk of the customers, we still need to
have those valves changed out.
The current situation with the employees having to stand in the
water with electrical components all around just can't continue. I
mean, it's really unsafe, and it's putting the county in extreme
liability at this time to continue that way. I feel strongly we have to
go on with the valve replacements.
With the hydro constant replacements, just to give you an
example, we had one go down about six months ago, and it took us
45 days to get it repaired because of the lead time with the parts. It
requires a minimum of two of the hydro constants to keep the island
in water service, or if the fire pump hydro constant went down, they
would have no fire protection until those parts could be fabricated.
So it would be a liability, I think, to wait on that portion of the
rehabilitation because you could potentially either have no water or
no fire protection at some point in time.
With the electrical components failing, that's a little harder to
put an exact timeline on that one because some component jets are on
the shelf and I can get them and do that replacement. But the
majority of them are older. And, again, we're having to fabricate
replacement parts for those as they break.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Before we go on, I need to get an
understanding with respect to the manner in which we deal with
capital improvements with this particular system.
Mr. Cox has suggested that the agreement we have with them
does not permit us to recover money for capital investment. And I
would like to understand what the alternatives are for doing that.
Must we take money from some other source to maintain those
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June 1 O, 2003
facilities or, alternatively, do we disagree with Mr. Cox's assertion
or, number three, if we were to merge them into the overall water
system, what are the cost implications of doing that?
MR. DeLONY: Let me see if I can get to the first two of those
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
MR. DeLONY: -- and I'll come back to the last one.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Let's answer my question first,
which Mr. Wides was going to --
MR. DeLONY: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: --
wind up.
answer, and you were going to
MR. DeLONY: I was going to work (sic) up. So we'll get to
you first, and then we'll come back to you, Mr. Coyle. Fair enough?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That's fair enough.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thanks.
MR. DeLONY: All right. Tom.
MR. WIDES: Again, for the record, Tom Wides, operations
director.
First off, on the topic of the financial feasibility of this system,
we need to do the work now, okay? You've heard that from Pam
Libby, our operation -- or manager of operations there.
In terms of how do we -- how can we possibly fund this? The
only place we have to go to fund this district currently is within the
structure. Will it, by delaying this rate increase, will that in some way
put more cost on the other rate payers? Yes, it will. It will also
likely heavily increase the base rate on the larger meters, which are
the meters down on Key Marco, okay? So it will -- it will shift costs
most likely.
We are taking a lot of bulk water cost out by -- if, in fact, the
Key Marco group were to go to an alternative source of irrigation.
So wE'll take revenue out, we'll take cost out. That's -- that's a matter
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June 10, 2003
of time.
How soon can we sink wells? Can they sink'wells? Maybe
that's the first question, will they be allowed by South Florida Water
Management to sink the wells, to start pumping from those wells, and
to use that water for irrigation purposes? Will that take a month?
Will that take six months? Will that take a year? So those are the
questions.
And in the meantime, that system is badly in need of repair.
We're not asking them to pay for any increase in pumping capacity.
We're asking them to pay -- to share with the other customers with
the rehab of the system.
And I'd also like to note to you, just to keep in mind, we have
another condominium, 52-unit condominium, Calusa Island Village,
that is moving through the process and is ready to start bUilding.
We cannot approve their building until we have available
capacity for them, okay? And again, what our intent was for Calusa
Island Village is that they would pay for any additional -- any
additional capacity which is not included in this rate study.
Commissioner, did I respond to your question or--
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I don't -- I didn't hear it, so let me
repeat the question so I can get an answer. What I heard is, the
possibility of Key Marco finding alternative sources for their
irrigation.
MR. WIDES: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: What I heard was, therefore, it
would -- you're not going to have the money to do these repairs
anyways because the rate payers -- the rate users is going to lessen
the use, and that's where -- your source to make these capital
improvements.
If that is true, then where is the money going to come from to
make these capital improvements, or is it going to be delayed, those
capital improvements?
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June 10, 2003
MR. WIDES: At this point in time, we would probably have
two alternatives.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay.
MR. WIDES: The one more likely alternative is to delay the
rehab. Well, that is the most likely situation.
Now, can we go out and borrow double what we're planning on
borrowing and put that back against the rate payers and still try to
proceed? We could do that. That is the other alternative.
But -- and if I may answer both of your questions just for a
moment here, Commissioner Coyle had asked, is there some other
place to go for the funds? The best we can do is go outside and
borrow. We have, as you heard earlier, no impact fees to tap into for
the Goodland water district.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Except for that one coming on line
that you just stated a few minutes ago.
MR. WIDES: Which would be a development -- it wouldn't be
MR. MUDD: It's just capacity related. It hasn't -- it has nothing
to do with the existing system. MR. WIDES: Exactly.
MR. MUDD: When you do existing system repairs, it comes
out of user fees.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay.
MR. MUDD: Okay? When you do capacity improvements,
like building another water tank or something like that, or increasing
the line diameter because you need more pumping, then those impact
fees get into that particular area because you've increased the
capacity of the system.
CHAIRMAN HENNING:
on the CDD district --
MR. DeLONY: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HENNING:
Commissioner C0yle had a question
-- agreement, correct?
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June 10,2003
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes, I did.
MR. DeLONY: Okay. I'm going to ask Tom Palmer to give
you a view from the county attorney's office on that very point.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
MR. DeLONY: Tom?
MR. PALMER: Commissioners, this sentence that was written,
or referred to you by the other side, that -- that provision is
unenforceable against the county because it would require the county
to provide water to that geographic area at less than the cost to serve.
There is a way around it though. If you wanted to ineffectively
use it and you asked whether or not this system could be rolled into
the base general rates of the water/sewer district and not be a
sub-district, that is legally permissible and in your discretion.
The net effect of that would be -- and I can't quantify it because
it's a relationship of the revenues and the cost of the large geographic
area and the small geographic area. But in all probability, in due
course, it would probably result in a small rate increase to the general
population of the water/sewer district, because it's the tyranny of
those small numbers versus the huge universe. That is permissible.
So in my opinion -- and it's -- there's good case law on this --
that we cannot agree as a matter of law to serve these customers at
less than the cost to serve them. And if we were going to apply the
rates recommended to the other side of the district, that is, the people
in the sub-district who are not in the subdivision, then you've got
serious rate discrimination issues.
They would be paying for these incremental costs that are going
to repay this capital cost, but they would be immune from them, and
there would be one rate for the people in the CDD and another rate
for the people outside the CDD.
But, my opinion, irrespective of what is intended, it is not
enforceable against the county because it results in service at less
than the cost to serve. This can be done in certain rare instances but
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June 10, 2003
not for a privately-owned development.
Like a -- for example, you could enter into this with maybe a
college or a school district because there's case law that says there's
special cases, but this is basically privately-owned property. It's a
residential subdivision.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay, thank you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes.
MR. DeLONY: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Just a basic question.
MR. DeLONY: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You've given us the alert that the
system is breaking down mechanically. MR. DeLONY: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You've also declared that we have
a half a million dollars sitting in reserves, and you've stated that our
employees are working in dangerous conditions, standing in water--
MR. DeLONY: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- and working on electricity. If we
have a half a million dollars, why didn't we use --
MR. DeLONY: Yes, ma'am. We're going to move out on that.
I think that's exactly what Ms. -- Ms. Libby said, that we'll move out
on that aspect of it, and certainly we're not -- not delaying any at this
stage of the game. We're moving with the due diligence to do that.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: We should -- we should have fixed
that right at the start rather than endangering our employees' lives -- MR. DeLONY: To the extent that we -- excuse me. I don't
mean to interrupt. I apologize.
To the extent that we've been able to mitigate that, we have.
But we don't need to continue any longer without a major repair, and
that's where we're at now.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And no matter what we do today, I
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June 10, 2003
mean, we have the money to fix that, right?
MR. DeLONY: We have the money to begin, but I don't have
the money to complete because the cost could go -- we have a current
estimate, as briefed earlier--
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I understand where you're going --
MR. DeLONY: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- with it. I'm just really concerned
right now for the employees' safety.
MR. DeLONY: And I am equally concerned. We have
addressed that in terms of mitigation. My concern is to continue to
do that mitigation, and at the same time, provide water to our
customers. I've got to do both, and I believe with this program that
I've outlined, I'll be able to do both safely and to the standard with
regard to customer service.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Seeing no further questions,
entertain a motion.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. I would like to make a
motion that we consider hearing this at the end of July, but start work
on that -- on safeguarding our employees right now.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Is there a second to the
motion?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: All right. Any discussion on the
motion?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I need to ask a question.
What does that mean with respect to the safety issues and the
ability to complete the mitigation of those safety issues for the
employees?
MR. DeLONY: If the board directs me to continue on with the
project I have, I'll continue at the schedule that I had planned, using
the cash reserves that I have at my -- available to the district and
come to you with your permissions to utilize those reserves. I'm
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June 1 O, 2003
concerned the reserves are not adequate to do two things, address the
needs that we have in terms of rehabilitation, and secondly, operate
the facility -- without a rate increase, operate the utility at a
reasonable -- in a reasonable and business-like way.
As described by the rate consultant earlier, you know, we're
going to finance part of the rehabilitation, and the rest of it, we're
going to have that debt retired as well as build up 60-day cash
reserves to operate that district as it should be operated as a sub -- as
a district. And that's what the net effect would be until we can get
another rate structure approved by the board.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And I just need to ask one other
question of Commissioner Fiala.
What -- what would be the purpose of the delay? What will we
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you for asking that, because
I do not want to delay any of the repairs, by the way. I want you to
stay on schedule with the October 1st target date.
The Key Marco people feel they have a few more discussion
points with staff, and I guess they're -- you've had some discussion
with them and there are some other things that they just want to iron
out, and that's why they're asking for the time to do that. It's just till
next month.
MR. MUDD: And Commissioner, I think that would be a very
good idea because the rates don't start until 1 October and the 29th of
July. And one of the things I didn't hear from Key Marco is the fact
that maybe because they use 50 percent of the water in this particular
system -- and you notice Jim mentioned that there would be
$350,000 taken out of that $500,000 reserve account in order to start,
and that they would probably have to go buy 200 -- or excuse me --
they'd have to go out and finance $200,000.
Well, when you finance $200,000 over a 1 O-year period of time,
you're not only paying for the principal, but you're also paying for
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June 10, 2003
the interest. And maybe there is an agreement that we can reach with
the Key Marco folks where they would be forthcoming with the
$250,000, $275,000, to pay their half of this particular case because
they use, at present time, 50 percent of that water. That would
preclude us from going into a loan that would add interest to that
process.
And I think staff needs to be able to talk those issues out with
these people, and I -- and I think this particular rate study has opened
up their eyes. And I know they're good neighbors, and they want to
be part of the solution to this process.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Let me state just one more time, I
don't want it to be delayed any further than July, number one. MR. MUDD: No.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And number two, I want to make
sure we start on schedule and right now start safeguarding those
people's --
MR. DeLONY: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- lives over there that are working
in the water with electricity.
MR. DeLONY: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Basically, I think what came out
of this whole discussion this morning is the fact that in order for the
county to provide water and to provide it in a manner that it's -- to all
customers, that it's going to cost a little more money for water, and I
think what we're trying to drive the point here is, that people who are
high users of our resource of water are going to be paid -- or be
charged more money; is that correct?
MR. DeLONY: Our conservation rates, that rate structure you
saw, exactly does that in its design. As approved by this board in
February for the greater Collier County Water/Sewer District, less
Goodland, that's exactly the rate structure you put in effect.
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June 10, 2003
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And we --
MR. DeLONY: This does this for this district as well.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And we've got an antiquated
system where we're in a situation where we've got -- we're
jeopardizing the safety of employees who are working around that
equipment. This equipment is getting antiquated. We've got to
upgrade it, so the users have to realize that we've got a commitment
here of not only providing them water, but also safety of our -- of the
people that -- county employees, plus this new equipment, it costs
money.
So it's got to be -- they've got to realize that we have to work
together and it's -- their rates are going to go up accordingly because
we've got to pay for this. This isn't something for nothing.
Everybody that's involved in this thing has to come to the party.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: My perspective on the motion, it's
not going to accomplish anything. You're going to have an increase --
I'm sure we're going to approve an increase for October. Key Marco,
you know, we're getting into rainy season. They have a choice to cut
off their sprinkler systems. They've got a few months to look for
alternative sources and the bottom line is, is we still need to do these
repairs.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: So these (sic) action that we're going
take -- the action we're going to take in July I don't think it's any
different than we're going to be taking today. So all we're doing is,
we're going to discuss this item again in July.
So I'm not going to support the motion, but I will -- if there's no
further discussion, I'll call the question.
All in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Opposed?
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June 1 O, 2003
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion fails, 3-2.
And I will make a motion to approve staff's recommendations.
Is there a second on the motion?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I second it.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: There's a second on the motion.
Discussion on the motion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING:
saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion carries 3-2. Thank you.
All in favor of the motion, signify by
Item # 10A
PRESENTATION BY THE SOUTH FLORIDA WATER
MANAGEMENT DISTRICT REGARDING ROADS IN
SOUTHERN GOLDEN GATE ESTATES-STAFF TO MOVE
FORWARD TO NEGOTIATE WITH SOUTH FLORIDA WATER
MANAGEMENT DISTRICT TO DEVELOP A PLAN AND
ANSWER ACCESS ISSIIES
We have -- on this next item, our 11:30 time certain, we have 10
speakers.
MR. MUDD: It's item 10(A).
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June 10, 2003
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Yeah, we have -- we have 10
speakers, and then we have a -- 11 speakers, and then we have an
item to be heard before one o'clock. So what I -- what I see is, we're
going to work through our lunch -- lunch break. Is that what the
commissioners want to do?
Is there a reason why we need to hear this next item or not -- the
item after this before one o'clock?
MR. MUDD: No, sir. And we can -- we can make a change
based on the number of speakers that we have.
We put down on this item, which is a briefing back to the board
on -- on the legislative session, we can -- we can bring that back
anytime. We've got it down at the board as not later than one,
because presumably we thought we would have this -- we thought we
would be into the lunch hour and maybe be done early, but I don't
think so.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: So we'll hear that item today, it will
just be later than one.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. It's going to be after our lunch break.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. So we are taking a lunch?
MR. MUDD: Dinner, sir.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Next item is --
MR. MUDD: Item 10(A), a presentation by the South Florida
Water Management District regarding roads in the South Golden
Gate Estate (sic), and the presenter will be Ms. Pam Mac'Kie from
the South Florida Water Management District.
MS. MAC'KIE: Good morning, still, barely.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Good morning.
MS. MAC'KIE: And I used to admire the people who were
smart enough at county commission -- Pam Mac'Kie. I am the
deputy executive director for land and west coast resources at the
South Florida Water Management District.
And what I was about to say is that I used to admire the people
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June 1 O, 2003
who were smart enough to schedule their item when you were hungry
so that you'd, you know, hurry it along and probably be weak and
more likely to go along with what they were requesting. I hope I've
done that today.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Spoken as a past
commissioner, I assume?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We're more likely to disapprove
under those circumstances.
MS. MAC'KIE: Oh, no. Grouchier when you're hungry, huh?
Uh-oh. All right. Then we'll go fast.
My reason for being here today is just to have a dialogue with
you over what is a cumbersome process because of Florida's sunshine
(sic), and so we just have to have our conversations here in the
sunshine, and so it makes it a little less cumbersome -- I'm sorry -- a
little more cumbersome than it would otherwise be.
But I'm here at the authorization of the Department of
Environmental Protection to discuss a methodology by which the
state could get complete ownership of the roadways in southern
Golden Gate Estates so that the rehydration and restoration project
could go forward on time.
I want to -- I know that the question today will be, what is the
appropriate compensation to Collier County for -- if it's willing to
give away its interest in these roads, what would be an appropriate
compensation level.
I want you to hear, if you would, if your stomachs will allow
you, I'd like for you to hear from Janet Starnes briefly about the
project benefits, because I have to suggest to you that in every other
of the 16 counties where I go and talk about restoration projects, it is
the project benefits that is the compensation for the county's
participation.
And in this case, I have to suggest to you that the project
benefits here are much greater than the value of the road easements
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June 1 O, 2003
that you're being requested to donate, so I need to get that on the
record. I need to be sure that that -- that you're clear that in the
opinion of me and the water management district and the state and
probably the feds, you know, the compensation that the county is --
should receive is the benefits of the project.
In other counties, I go -- and we're doing a restoration project
and they donate the land and they give cash and they help with the
restoration and they pay, and so this is a very odd situation, and you
just need to know that. Because when I was here, you know, you
have a narrow perspective. You see Collier County.
Well, having stepped back, I want you to know that it is very
odd for us to be talking about the county government being
compensated for vacating road right -- road rights-of-way in an
Everglades restoration project that is a critical project approved by
Congress, ready to go. It would typically be that the project benefits
would be seen as the compensation. So I'm going to pause for a
second and ask Janet Starnes to come and just give you some
description of those project benefits, because I think that's very
essential for you to understand, if I may.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Ms. Mac'Kie, before you go away,
what's the total acreage of what the taxpayers own down there?
Well, I'm sorry. In ownership into the county including the dirt
roads?
MR. MUDD: The ease -- the easements that we have are on
287 miles of road, and we estimate that the right-of-way easements
are on 2,293 acres -- point 25 acres, okay, a quarter acre. So again,
it's 2,293.25.
You also have the right-of-way, you also have the 10 or so
bridges that they want to purchase, plus you have the road condition,
of which 73 or 74 miles of that road is either double surface lime
rock or asphalt. And I think it's broken down; 60 are asphalted -- 60
are asphalted, six miles are lime rocked, and 13 are double surface
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June 1 O, 2003
treatment.
I will also say that the Florida Department of Environmental
Protection has also asked about Jane Scenic Drive. And when you
add that to the calculation, that's 11.3 miles that are lime rocked and
another 137 acres.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I just want to get out to the point --
the point is, we are donating land down there.
MS. MAC'KIE: Where? I'm sorry, I don't --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: The dirt roads. That wasn't in part of
the equation as --
MR. MUDD: The right-of-way -- the right-of-way costs are on
there. The condition of the dirt roads are not into the calculation of
roads per se as a cost.
MS. MAC'KIE: But in the 2,293 acres, that's all of your
interest. Am I right about that?
MR. MUDD: Yes, ma'am.
MS. MAC'KIE: So that -- so if you are willing to donate the
dirt roads, we need to clarify that and subtract that from the 2,293.
MR. PERKINS: No way.
MS. MAC'KIE: And I also want to be clear that -- and your
lawyer should advise you if I'm wrong -- the state has already
purchased and owns the fee title by virtue of having bought the
adjacent properties. All that happens -- what is retained by county
government at this point is the platted easement, that layer of rights,
on top of the fee. The fee was purchased, the ownership was
purchased from the adjacent landowners. That's how it works.
That's how platting works.
But that -- that easement, that platted easement, not the
ownership of the dirt, but that platted easement is what you continue
to retain an interest in over 287 miles, 2,293 acres, and the question
is, what is the appropriate compensation if you agree to allow the
state to continue in its rehydration project. So I want you to hear
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June 1 O, 2003
about the project benefits, if I may.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Well, I would like to know, what
kind of moneys is the county asking for to vacate these easements?
MS. MAC'KIE: Well, that's basically what I'm here to talk
about. I mean, that's what this awkward negotiation that has to take
place in the sunshine is about. Because, again, I want you to know
that the project benefits are the compensation and, I believe, should
be considered more than adequate compensation.
But if you don't see it that way, then the alternatives are for you
and the state to fight each other in some sort of condemnation or
some sort of process. You know, I don't want to see that, so that's
how I sort of interjected myself into this process.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Pam, I need to ask a question so
I'll know where I stand for the rest of this meeting.
Are you telling me that the state has rejected out of hand our
arrangement or proposal to establish a mitigation bank? MS. MAC'KIE: No, sir.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Because if they have, then--
MS. MAC'KIE: They have not.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- as far as I'm concerned, I'm
finished talking.
MS. MAC'KIE: They have certainly not.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
MS. MAC'KIE: The reason I'm here today is to ask if the board
as a whole wants to make that an official offer to the state --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
MS. MAC'KIE: -- because we can't do that without going
through this sunshine process.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I understand. Okay.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Pam, I'd like to get a couple of
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June 10, 2003
things on the record so that everyone knows what's taking place
behind the scenes.
Several times now we've been politely invited up to Tallahassee.
I was the first one to go up there for a meeting that was cancelled,
and I had the good fortune of meeting with the cabinet, part of the
cabinet in Mike Davis's office. I think there's been two times now
that we've been ordered up there also for the county manager and our
chairperson and the county attorney, and they've been cancelled, I
think, two times now. I'm not too sure on that. But we've got
another trip coming up when now, Mr. Mudd?
MR. MUDD: The meeting is scheduled for nine o'clock on
Thursday the 12th, this week.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And I'll be honest with you, in
all good faith, we're not seeing -- we're not seeing -- I feel like we're
being treated as a stepchild in the fact that the governor and his
cabinet have come up with some trumped up charges to try to use as
a bargaining tool to whittle us down in a way of a memo I sent to Mr.
Mudd inquiring about the Miccosukee Indian Tribe taking possession
of the roads in the Picayune, for one, and then also, too, Jesse
Hardy's property who you were one of the co-conspirators on, I
might add.
MS. MAC'KIE: Yes, I was.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And that sounds like, at this
particular juncture -- and I'm very, very disappointed that the
governor and his cabinet are following this particular line of attack in
the fact that they're trying to come up with a couple of two or three
different items to be able to attack Collier County on, with the idea
that we're going to roll over and play dead and give them the roads.
MR. PERKINS: Hear, hear.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: If anything, it's unresolved. It's
become stronger and stronger by the moment not to give up anything.
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June 1 O, 2003
And I might remind you, too, that those prescriptive easements
that we have on Miller Boulevard, that we have in suspended
animation at this point in time, as far as the lawsuit goes, that I think
possibly we might want to reconsider that, go back and bring out the
lawsuit and ask for a four-lane highway to be put through the whole
of Miller Boulevard.
MR. PERKINS: Hear, hear.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I don't -- I don't want to sound
like we're playing hardball, but I'll tell you right now, the first couple
of curves that were sent our way were less than polite, if I might say
so. And now that we've set the stage for where we're going, let's hear
what the benefits are.
MS. MAC'KIE: And--
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Well, Commissioner -- let me just
correct, Pam, one thing, the governor and the cabinet are not
requesting. It is the staff that's making the recommendations to the
governor and the cabinet, okay? So Mr. Stats (sic), I want to get that
correct.
MS. MAC'KIE: And I'd like to add to that, if I may, because the
follow-up I'd like to make to Commissioner Coletta's comments is, I
can understand how you would come to some of those conclusions.
Having sat where you're sitting and having tried to deal with the state
on the southern Golden Gate acquisitions, for example, and feeling
miscommunicated with and not communicated with and treated like a
stepchild. I understand that feeling. But I'm here to tell you that the
upper, senior level people at the state, including the governor and the
cabinet and their senior advisors, are not playing a game with Collier
County. They are not.
From their perspective, they are as separated from this scenario
as you feel in some ways, in that they're sitting there, they're getting
advice, they hear these odd things about a fish farm and giving roads
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June 1 O, 2003
away to the Indians to keep the state from getting them. I mean, it's
like a game of gossip. I know you never said that. But it's like a
game of gossip, that -- and the road is long between here and
Tallahassee, and it gets told 14 times by the time it gets there, both
ways, north and south, communications get mixed up. That's why
I'm here.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. Para, all due respect. I
was in Tallahassee. I did meet with members of the cabinet. They
said they understood exactly what we were talking about, but they
still needed us to appear before the governor to be able to make the
same statements over again.
I mean, this -- the message was clear. Also they told me from
that meeting, that I would have members of forestry come and give
me a detailed explanation of what was intended as far as the closing
of the roads, as far as access goes, and that I'd be one of the players
in this and I'd be able to go back and tell the people that I represent --
mind you, the commission is the first line of defense for these people.
MS. MAC'KIE: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: They don't come to you. They
come to me.
MS. MAC'KIE: I do know.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And when they come to me, I
have to give them answers. Well, forestry isn't cooperating. That's
the reason why the Miccosukee Indian Tribe memo accidently got
leaked. The only trouble is, forestry still chose to ignore it, but the
governor picked up on it. That's where we are.
I still don't have much confidence in this process as it's going
forward. Maybe when they get to Tallahassee there'll be a different
picture painted, we'll put these three things aside that they brought
up, and there won't be an item that's for any consideration at all.
They have no meaning upon what we're going to be discussing, and
then get down to the real discussion, what's going to take place.
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June 1 O, 2003
But I, for one, am going to hold firm. I mean, we can talk all
about benefits, but when the Collier County residents have put in
tremendous amounts of money over the years to maintain these
roads, not to mention the rights that they've had out there, the access
rights, and just walk away from that and say, okay, we'll start over
new and see what's going to happen here, I for one, am going to have
a hard time accepting it.
But I am going to wait until we come back -- they come back
from Tallahassee and make their report.
MS. MAC'KIE: I understand and I respect your position, I
understand that. And there are people here from Division of Forestry
today that can answer some questions. I do have people who can
show you the maps of what roads are going to remain open post
restoration. I am prepared to show you that today so you can get as
many answers as possible to your questions today, and hopefully we,
at least in this room, can focus on the question on the table for
Collier County, because frankly, it isn't, will the restoration project
go forward, it isn't, will there be restoration of southern Golden Gate
Estates. That's a state and federal process that is going on that
happens whether Collier County county commissioners think it's a
good idea or not.
What we're here to talk about today is, and what I hope we can
stay focused on, is should the county be compensated for its interest
in those 287 miles of roads, if so, to what extent and what way. And
one of the ways is through the project benefits that are significant,
and I will call on Janet -- no, I won't either.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: If I could just interrupt you one more
time, and I think it's only fair to go to Ms. Starnes.
Commissioner Coyle has a question --
MS. MAC'KIE: Oh, please.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- or statement.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. I just would like to say, I
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agree with your last statement, Pam. I think we need to get on and
see if we can't resolve some of these problems.
I believe that this problem started out by a serious failure of
communication between DEP and Collier County, and thankfully
you're here now and you're doing a lot to resolve that problem. So
I'm anxious to proceed.
I believe that the governor and his cabinet have been reasonable
and are looking for a reasonable solution to this issue. But there was
a major failure between his department of DEP and Collier County in
addressing the needs for this acquisition program, and I would like to
get them resolved. And I think your approach is a good one, and I'm
willing to put all that other stuff aside and let's get down to business
and see if we can't resolve this issue.
MS. MAC'KIE: Thank you, thank you.
Madam Chair, may I call on Ms. Statues?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Certainly.
MS. STARNES: Good morning, Commissioners.
I'm just going to real quickly kind of go through what we
anticipate the benefits of a restored southern Golden Gate Estates to
be.
First of all, the primary purpose of the project and the intent of
the project is to restore the overland flow of surface waters within
southern Golden Gate Estates. Currently because of the canals, that
system is very drained. It's much dryer than it was historically prior
to those canals being put in.
So our goal is to backfill those canals and re-establish that
overland flow within the southern Golden Gate Estates area itself.
What that will do is change the current vegetation back to what was
the historical vegetation, which consists much more of wetland type
vegetation. It will put it back more to a swamp type area in major
portions of the estates, the southern Golden Gate Estates.
In addition to that, we will be reducing -- the point source
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discharge to Faka Union Canal and Faka Union Bay will be
dramatically reduced. We anticipate that we will actually get about
90 percent reduction in the point source discharge in the Faka Union
Bay.
What does that mean to the Ten Thousand Islands and the
estuarine systems? What that means is we will have a salinity
freshwater mix that is much more typical of a healthy estuarine
system rather than a system that's being adversely impacted by
freshwater flow. That will allow the seagrass beds to come back in,
that will allow the fishery habitat to be re-established and come back
in.
You know, as all are well aware, Ten Thousand Islands is a
primary fishery habitat, not only locally, but it has an incredible
impact on the Gulf of Mexico as well as the Keys and Southern
Atlantic itself. So that's a big piece, re-establishing that habitat area
where fish -- because fish migrate back and lay their eggs and their
young are produced there in the Ten Thousand Island area, so that's a
big important part.
And a third component is we will actually improve the ground
water conditions within the area of southern Golden Gate Estates,
including northern Golden Gate Estates. And by bringing those
ground water levels so that they are retained at a higher level for a
longer duration during dry season, it will have a positive impact on
the Collier County well fields, and that those well fields will be
longer able to pump without a drawdown as soon.
It's not going to increase the amount of water available. It just
means that there won't be -- you'll have a longer duration where
you're having -- and a smaller drawdown impact within that well
field that is close to the -- that's within the Golden Gate Estates area.
So by elevating that ground water, we get a positive effect on the
potable supply in Collier County.
I mean, those are really the three key pieces that we're trying to
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do. Now, there's lots of other details and there's lots of, you know,
different kinds of habitat issues.
In addition to establishing -- by re-establishing the wetland
systems, we are also actually increasing the habitat extent for such
critters as the panthers, red-cockades, a lot of the endangered species
that are -- that are in the area, and Collier County is rich with
endangered species. And so it actually will restore back that habitat
area. So we're actually getting a more bang for our buck, so to speak,
in that we're not only putting back the wetland systems, but we're
re-establishing habitat as well for the critters.
MS. MAC'KIE: If I may just ask Janet some questions I would
have if I were you.
Sort of, besides that, we all love bugs and bunnies, you know.
So what? What is in this for Collier County economically? What
about their fisheries or their water supply or, you know, what does
this do for Collier County, generally?
MS. STARNES: In terms of water supply, I already pointed
out, we're actually, by increasing the duration, you'll have a longer
duration of higher ground water levels that affect your well fields, so
that's a good thing. You have less drawdown in terms of impacting
the aquifer system from which you withdraw your water, so that's a
very positive thing, and it helps assure that you have -- those well
fields will be retained as good, solid sources for potable supply into
the future.
In terms of re-establishing the estuarine system, there's very --
there's been a very strong negative impact on the estuarine systems in
terms of fishing, recreational activities, not just in the Faka Union
Bay. And there's more to it than that. It's across the Ten Thousand
Islands. And the water management district has other projects that
will be improving and affecting those flows as well, such things as
the Tamiami Trail project, which helps to re-establish the flows from
the north to the south of the Trail, which will also affect-- you know,
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improve the Ten Thousand Islands.
But just re-establishing that -- that estuarine system, you'll have
-- you'll have recreational benefits in the future, you will continue to
have fishery effects in the future, economic -- economic gains in
terms of that.
In terms of the estates themselves, you create a very nice
recreational opportunity in terms of re-establishing Old Florida.
Currently, the habitat that is out there is going to get dryer and
dryer, and you're going to get more and more pine tree, and pine tree
is not the typical habitat for that area. So you'll bring -- you'll be
able to bring in the recreational folks that come in now to see things,
like Corkscrew Swamp and Ten Thousand Islands and the
Everglades. They'll come to Collier County because that natural
habitat will be re-established. Yes?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Also with the re-establishment of
the south Golden Gate Estates, and you're saying we're going to
basically create a sheetflow from the north, so are we looking also
that this is going to act as a filtering system for all the agricultural
runoff, and before it gets down into the southern part of the -- of the
county and flows out into the Gulf?.
MS. STARNES: Absolutely. That's one of the key pieces of--
and that's one of the really nice things about Mother Nature, is when
you allow Mother Nature to work the way she intends it to work,
with that overlay and flow, you get all of your nutrient dropouts, you
get your particle dropout. And the system will naturally treat itself
so that you have actually cleaner water entering the Ten Thousand
Island area.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
MS. STARNES: And the publicly-owned land that's already
south of the Trail than you currently have today through point
source.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Are you going to provide an area
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for recreation in that area? Presently I think there's -- what do they
call that, Lucky Lake or something of that nature?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Prairie Lake.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Bad Luck?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Bad Luck Prairie.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Bad Luck Prairie. Are we going
to afford recreational aspects down in that area? Is that going to be
possible through this plan?
MS. STARNES: And let me explain how this will work. Yes,
there will be recreational opportunity in southern Golden Gate
Estates. There's two agencies here that are involved. The water
management district is in charge of and will oversee the restoration
project.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
MS. STARNES: In addition to that, the Division of Forestry is
actually the official manager of the land for the State of Florida,
because the properties are owned by the DEP, by the State of Florida,
the governor and cabinet, not by the water management district. The
Division of Forestry is the official manager of the Picayune Strand
State Forest.
Immediately -- as soon as we choose a final plan for restoration,
the Division of Forestry will go forward with revising their
management plan. It will be another public process where everyone
in the county will have a say as to how that system will be managed.
And recreational opportunity is definitely something that will be
included in that plan. But I can't -- I can't speak to what specific
areas or what specific types of recreation at this point.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Well, I hope that someplace in the
plan we can put into the plan, set aside an area that's presently being
used by people that go out there on weekends and mud bog or
whatever, and hopefully that -- those capabilities will remain intact,
and we won't expand the area, but leave the area that they're
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presently mud bogging in, and hopefully we can put that as a source
of recreation, set that aside, if possible.
MS. STARNES: And Division of Forestry representatives are
here today, and I do know that they've heard from many of the
Collier County residents that that's a very strong interest, and I'm
sure that's being looked at.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Coletta?
MS. MAC'KIE: I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Go ahead.
MS. MAC'KIE: I was just going to say, you know, that we
share the desire for publicly-owned property to be available for its
owners to use it, and we are advocates for that at the water
management district under our new -- relatively new director, Hendry
Dean.
I mean, this is absolutely a strong incentive. They call it
resource-based recreation. And what that really means is, if we
bought this land with a pile of money that we got from the federal
government that said you can buy this land to restore it to its natural
conditions, then we recreate on it so long as we don't violate the
purpose for which we got the money from Congress.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Right.
MS. MAC'KIE: So, I mean, that's the balance that you
constantly have to be trying to do between allowing adequate and
appropriate -- the fullest amount of recreation possible without
violating the purpose for which you got the money from the feds.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I was going to say that I
appreciate the fact we recognize that it's public land and it belongs to
the public --
MS. MAC'KIE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- unlike my recent trip, which
I won't get into, where a manager of a piece of public land referred to
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it as his property, but I corrected him and we're friends again.
But I want to -- I want to mention that thing about public access,
that's going to be a very big issue. And see, there's been bad faith on
the part of the state and forestry as far as coming forward at an early
date just to talk to us and give us some background.
I'd like to know what the future plans are from forestry as far as
the ATV use. It's obvious that if they're going to restore sheetflow,
the place that's going to be flooded on a continuous basis is going to
be Bad Luck Prairie. I don't know how that can be avoided. I mean,
if it dries out one month a year, it would be a miracle.
So obviously there's going to have to be some sort of
recreational land someplace close by, if not on the Picayune itself. I
want to know what that is, and I have never got an answer to that
question.
MS. MAC'KIE: And let's at least start with the information that
we have, that we know for sure, and that is this map that I've put on
the overhead.
I can't see it very well. Is there a way to zoom in a little bit --
MR. MUDD: Sure.
MS. MAC'KIE: -- so you could see that better?
Because what you can see with the color codes here on this map
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Want my glasses?
MS. MAC'KIE: No. I'll fake it.
MR. MUDD: I'll give you another copy.
MS. MAC'KIE: Oh, good. That's what I needed.
MR. MUDD: And I'll point.
MS. MAC'KIE: Thank you. Is you can -- there's red and blue
on here. The red are primary roads that will be retained, will be open
post restoration. These red roads that are 1st and 52 -- 52nd Avenue,
Stewart, Everglades, this portion of Miller, portion -- Union Road,
these roads that are red will always, always remain. These are going
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to be open. They're going to be passable roads. They're not going to
be underwater roads even in the wet season. MR. MUDD: Last season.
MS. MAC'KIE: The blue -- the blue roads are secondary roads
that, at dry season, will be at grade, but in the wet season will be
under water and will even be constructed to allow water to flow over
them. You know, we'll scrape down parts of it so the water can pass
through.
But if you're interested to know, where will there be access --
and the reason for these over here is that there are residents here, you
know, that use this as their access way, and that will continue to be
available, because nobody suggests that you can cut people off. You
can't.
In the discussion that I hope we are going to have about Jane
Scenic Drive, when I was on the county commission, we held on to
our interest in Jane Scenic Drive because we felt a duty to protect
access until the last person, you know, left there.
What I hope to propose to you today is that Jane Scenic Drive,
when the last person has access -- when nobody needs access to right
here anymore, the county will no longer have an interest in Jane
Scenic Drive or a need to continue to own it, to protect that. So that's
the reason why I'm going to -- that would be the condition under
which I would ask that Jane Scenic Drive be included in this
discussion.
But there at least is the discussion of where there -- or the
answer to the question about what roads will be open, what roads will
be passable, what roads will be passable only in dry season.
And the one other thing that I -- that I wanted to point out is,
when I was county commissioner, I served as a member of the
governor's commission for Sustainable South Florida, and that was
sort of the mother of CERP, you know, the mother of the
Comprehensive Everglades Restoration Project where -- where the
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governor said, go and figure out if South Florida will sustain itself if
we continue on our present path.
And sometimes in Collier County we look at these restoration
projects as, you know, sort of a nice idea, won't it be sweet that we
can have this restored acreage and it will be pretty and it will be
Florida, and it will be nice, but the reality -- the reality is that the
restoration of the Everglades is not just nice. South Florida,
including the west coast of Florida, is not sustainable absent
restoration. We cannot continue on the present path. We have to do
things to recharge our aquifers. We have to take action to allow this
community to be sustainable into the future. And this is Collier
County's primary contribution to that effort, so --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Ms. Mac'Kie.
MS. MAC'KIE: -- the question -- I'm sorry?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: If I must say, you're aware that we're
pulling more and more out of a dedicated water source called --
MS. MAC'KIE: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- the Lower Hawthorne?
MS. MAC'KIE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And the recharge areas, we're talking
about the Tamiami aquifer.
MS. MAC'KIE: And a couple -- there's another well field.
Sand --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Sandstone.
MS. MAC'KIE: So it permeates.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Right. And to take that pressure off
the Tamiami aquifer and provide more water for the environment and
the citizens in Golden Gate Estates.
I have a question for Ms. Starnes, and I want to thank you for
being here, and Ms. Mac'Kie.
Is this a part of the Everglades restoration?
MS. STARNES: Yes, it is. It's part of the comprehensive
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Everglades restoration plan that Congress approved.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: So this is -- the money is coming
from the feds and the state?
MS. STARNES: It's 50 percent federal and 50 percent water
management district, yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. So part of the money for the
restoration of the Everglades is coming from Collier County? MS. STARNES: You bet, correct.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Is that not an adequate donation to
support this restoration, or do we have to give more?
MS. MAC'KIE: That's your policy decision to make. In other
counties -- in every other county that we have needed land, that land
-- I have had a partnership in the actual purchase of land in Martin
County. They paid half, I paid half, you know. So in other counties
MR. PERK1NS: You paid half2. We paid half.
MS. MAC'KIE: I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: That's all right.
MS. MAC'KIE: I on behalf of the water management district.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Can I say -- can I say something?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: No, ma'am. We will -- in a minute,
we'll take public speakers. So if I can ask the public to be patient,
and let's get through this process.
MS. MAC'KIE: But, Commissioner, your point is valid that
Collier County is not getting a gift here. Collier County taxpayers
are paying federal, state, and local taxes, all of which are going
toward this program. Absolutely, we are all paying.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And how about if I give you a real
good deal and give you a discount on 30 cents on the dollar? That's
what we're asking for. And by the way, state employees, you own
those mitigation credits. It's not something you have to buy. You
give those -- you sell those to the counties and you say, this is what
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it's going to cost you for those mitigations, above and beyond what
the state requires.
MS. MAC'KIE: Kind of. And let's talk about that, because I --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay.
MS. MAC'KIE: Because what--
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Can I ask --
MS. MAC'KIE: I have met with some of you privately and
talked to your manager and your attorney about, is this possibility of
the concurrency by which Collier County gets compensated would be
some form of credit for mitigation for its future road construction and
other construction projects, that idea being, if you impact an acre of
wet prairie, you have to mitigate -- I don't know the ratio -- but let's
say it's three acres of wet prairie, or if you impact an acre of
mangroves, you have to buy somewhere 20 acres of mangroves and
donate it to the state to offset it. That's what the mitigation concept
is.
So we have looked at those 2,300 acres of land that are, you
know, spread out over this -- over this project to try to determine
what's the value, what is the economic value of that land, and could
you take that land, put it on the market, sell it. If-- let's say it's a
thousand dollars, just to keep the math easy, because I promise I
know it's not, but, you know, less zeros are easier.
If the value of the land is a thousand dollars, is there somebody
who would pay you a thousand dollars for that land, and if so, then
you could take that thousand dollars and go to the Panther Island
mitigation bank and buy a mitig -- a credit that you could use later as
a -- to offset a road impact. That is a potential concurrency that we
could evaluate here as a method by which the state could compensate
the county.
Another concurrency that I think is more what you're talking
about, Commissioner Henning, is if you look at the resource value of
those lands. Again, we're thinking about these strips of land that are
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roads, some have asphalt, some have bridges. If-- if you came to the
water management district and said, I'd like a permit for a road, I'm
going to impact an acre of wet prairie, and if the water management
said, okay, but you've got to give me three acres of wet prairie to
offset that impact, if that were the way it works, then we could go
look at your strips of land and say, how much of that totals up to
three acres of wet prairie and check that off, that you have spent that
now in the process of permitting, and that is your bank. And I think
that's the concept that you-all are considering.
It's gotten kind of confused because they're two different things
here, and in the agreement draft that we have -- and we've just been
trying to work on an agreement. It's not like there is, you know, a
hard and fast piece of paper yet.
But in the draft that we have, the approach that was taken is,
okay, if this is 2,300 acres of land and the land is worth 2 or 3,000 or
$4,000 an acre and the asphalt is worth this and the bridges are worth
this, and let's add it all up -- and that's worth $ ! 7 and a half million--
and asking for some source of money besides the Big Cypress Basin
-- which there isn't a source of money besides the Big Cypress Basin
-- to pay for -- to buy mitigation credits equal to $17 and a half
million. That's -- that is, I would suggest, radical, and I don't know if
anybody would agree to that.
What might be possible -- and I have Bob Howard here to talk
about the mitigation process -- is, if instead, what we looked at is you
have 2,300 acres of land, if a thousand acres is wet prairie and you
need an acre of wet prairie to give to the district in exchange for your
impacts on a road of wet prairie that we would say, okay, check,
you've already given it to us in the southern Golden Gate project. If
that's what we're talking about, I think this is a workable solution.
And that has a real value to Collier County, because otherwise you
have to go and buy it.
So do you want to hear more about how the -- how the process
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works on mitigation credits and how we would establish them, or --
where should we go from here? That's basically -- what I have to
bring today is the possibility of the county getting acre for acre credit
to land it contributes, that you would get credit for that land in your
future mitigation needs.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I -- from my perspective, I think you
need to work that out with our staff for that.
But Commissioner Halas had a question or a comment.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah. You were saying that Jane
Way (sic) Drive is going to dead-end. Does that mean that we're no
longer going to be able to access that area by automobile?
MS. MAC'KIE: I would need -- well, I'm sorry. Janet, help me,
because I don't know. The answer you can, but --
MS. STARNES: The current intent, and it's always been the
intent, Jane Scenic's (sic) Drive will always be open for daytime
access. It's currently open for daytime access. Even once this
project is restored, the Jane Scenic Drive and its connection into
Stewart and Everglades will still be maintained as open during
daylight hours. That-- I mean, that gives you the access to that land
so you can enjoy it, recreationally or otherwise. COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
MS. STARNES: So, yes, Jane Scenic Drive will be retained
open.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Now, will you be able to navigate
that road by car, or will you need an SUV to get through there?
MS. STARNES: You'll be able to navigate it by car.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. In other words, it's going
to be -- the grade is going to be brought up to a certain standard,
because it -- presently it floods now even.
MS. STARNES: Oh, you mean in terms of Jane Scenic itself?.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Jane Scenic.
MS. STARNES: No. During wet season, Jane Scenic will still
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be wet. We are not going to increase any elevations on any of the
roads.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: So that's --
MS. STARNES: So during wet season--
COMMISSIONER HALAS: -- going to be impassable then in
wet season?
MS. STARNES: During wet season, it will still be wet, just as
it is today, yes.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: All right.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. We've got two dozen public
speakers. Is it an appropriate time to go to our speakers?
Actually, we have 10, 127
MS. FILSON: Eleven.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Eleven. If we can keep it to three
minutes, we would appreciate your input. So please call up the first speaker.
MS. FILSON: The first speaker is Mrs. Sara Spencer. She will
be followed by A1 Perkins.
MS. SPENCER: Good morning. I'm Sara Spencer. I've lived
in Collier County since 1958, and I've seen many things change in
that length of time, some good, some not.
I saw -- Ms. McKenzie (sic) says that the compensation is more
valuable than the road easements. What about, are the people's rights
less valuable than the road easements?
These people have gotten -- bought land, not necessarily in the
estates, but they got permits from the county to build their homes and
do -- live the way they wanted to live. And they got permits from the
county for access to those lands outside of Golden Gate through the
Golden Gate roads. They obtained permits for that.
In all good faith, these people believed in their government and
the word that they would be able to obtain their homes for-- and
hand them down to their children. And I don't believe that human
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rights are less valuable. Thank you.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is A1 Perkins, and he will be
followed by Brian McMahon.
MR. PERKINS: I was going to ask for another five minutes on
top, because this is too damn important to skim off the top.
Ladies and gentlemen, people at home, pay attention. I want to
talk about death and killing. And also good morning, servants of the
public.
Out in the estates and in Golden Gate Estates, south of the alley,
Mrs. Spencer's husband was killed out there this past year because
the response time was 22 minutes by helicopter because they couldn't
get through the evacuation route of Miller Boulevard Extension.
What's the matter with you people?
The South Florida Water Management is the biggest bunch of
liars going, and I can prove it because I've been to the meetings, all
of the meetings. I videotaped them. You people weren't here. You
didn't go to the meetings. Half of you people have not been in this
county. I've almost been in this county, like dirt, been here that long.
East Naples, if they take and fill that up full of water, East
Naples is going under water, and I hope you guys enjoy the
mosquitos, the rodents, the snakes, because they're going to go to
high ground. They cannot swim forever.
The tidal surge is going to be ridiculous coming out of the east
and then out of the west when we get a hurricane.
Now, you talk about Jeb Bush. I don't see him doing anything
about the lottery as far as funding the doggone schools, yet we've got
money to take and put ASR wells down, 300 of them, and the roads
and the power and the maintenance, the pumps, and everything else
out in the Everglades. Is this to take and supply water to Dade
County?
By the way, Mr. Spencer was a veteran of two wars, and he got
killed out there.
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The Big Cypress Basin Board, South Florida Water
Management, has been falsifying their records by (sic) years. They
do not have a stenographer. They take it audio, and then they decide
what they want to put in and what they don't want to put in. They
manipulate the minutes, and so does the Rookery Bay, and I can
document that.
I don't come here to be nice. If you look on this publication I
gave you, if you look, the third line up, this is Division of Forestry.
Okay? Camping allowed, horseback riding allowed, fishing allowed,
recreational access allowed.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you. Mr. Perkins --
MR. PERKINS: And also at that point, if they get hurt, what
are you going to do about it, because it's on a -- getting hurt on a road
that you can't get to. When you talk about camping and when you
talk about hiking, these people are going to go out there to enjoy.
And don't forget, they're paying for this --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Mr. Perkins --
MR. PERKINS: I hear you. I heard you the first time, and I
don't mean to be disrespectful, but when you take and put in effect
giving away the roads, the Marco Island people and Goodland people
are the ones that are going to end up dead floating in the canals.
They're your responsibility, and why don't you stand up to it?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Next speaker, please.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Brian McMahon, and he will
be followed by Mike Sorrell. Brian McMahon?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And would Mike Sorrell please
come up front here so that he can step up after this speaker.
MR. McMAHON: Good afternoon. My name is Brian
McMahon. I am on the State Division of Forestry's Off-Highway
Vehicle Advisory Board.
I can assure you, there is no plan to allow ATVs or off-road
vehicles in the Picayune Strand Forest after the restoration. Make no
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mistake about it. I don't care what they say. I have talked to Earl
Peterson. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service which lent the State of
Florida $25 million to purchase the land out there will not allow that
activity.
There's some other questions about the southern Golden Gate
project. I hear a lot of talk about panthers, I hear a lot of talk about
woodpeckers, and this is good, but there's no talk about people down
here.
MR. PERKINS: You're right.
MR. McMAHON: No talk whatsoever. You know, there was
800 people who gathered on a hot June afternoon last year to show
the Division of Forestry that we wanted access to this land. We
didn't offer refreshments, we didn't even have any cover. But they
stood out there in that hot sun to prove a point to forestry. I believe
they have forgot that this happened.
Another part of the people plan is, when they talk about raising
the water table. Right now we're looking at a FEMA map that says
everything north of 1-75, perfectly in line with southern Golden Gate,
is now going to be considered a high flood area. MR. PERKINS: Hear, hear.
MR. McMAHON: Okay? This is going to cost the average
resident roughly 2,000. I don't know if the math is there to prove it
or not to prove it, but if you look at that map, it definitely bears
looking at.
Before we turn over any roads, we need to see a recreation plan,
we need to know what access is going to be allowed, and we need to
know how this is going to affect northern Golden Gate. It's the only
bargaining chip we have as the county is these roads. Once you turn
them over, they aren't even going to return your phone calls.
That's all I have to say. Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker--
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June 10,2003
CHAIRMAN HENNING: That's fine.
MS. FILSON: -- is Mike Sorrell. He will be followed by Frank
Denninger.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Ms. Mac'Kie, the gentleman wants to
use the podium right there.
MS. MAC'KIE: I was just writing a note. I'm sorry.
MR. SORRELL: That's all right.
Hi. For the record, I'm Mike Sorrell. I'm the president of
Florida Outdoor Alliance. We have a -- we're a relatively new
organization. We have 400 members plus at this point.
I'm here speaking on (sic) everybody that's concerned about this
area. As Brian had mentioned about the lack of access, at one time
there was 55,000 acres in this area that was deemed to be the largest
recreational area in Southwest Florida. Guess what? There's 21
campsites. It's a joke. They go alongside a canal that they're allowed
five people per campsite, according to Division of Forestry rules.
Myself and another gentleman in the audience went out about
two months ago, it was in February, we counted 2,500 people; 2,500
people as we drove up and down all these dirt roads. We went out to
Bad Luck Prairie. Where are you going to put those people?
Our club outing, our annual event, was -- about 147 people
came over two days. That puts us over the 21 times five allowable in
their campground. They have you boxed in, no shade. There's picnic
tables. I'm not knocking all the Division of Forestry, but it's a pretty
poor excuse for access.
As far as the roads go, there's other ways to get -- not to stand in
the way of CERP, which is the Comprehensive Everglades
Restoration Project, maintain your policing authority on the roads,
maintain your ownership, and allow them to take them out at grade.
I don't see any reason why we don't have yet a designated trail
system here as well that would also coincide with the CARL (sic)
money that was given to fund this project -- would give the people of
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June 1 O, 2003
Collier County, Dade County, all the way from Tampa down,
someplace to go, because if you take this from us, we're going to
have nowhere.
This area here Brian mentioned -- I live right up here right off
Wilson Boulevard. As of October 15th, I'm going to be in a flood
zone. Maybe you don't understand the difference of how this flood
area here ties in. Well, here's the boundary for the flood zone. It's a
straight line. Hellen Keller can see that what they're trying to do out
here with stacking this water up is going to flood me.
It's going to cost me $300 a month to insure my home the first
level only. I own two homes. One is outside the flood zone. It's four
feet, according to my GPS, lower than what I own here on Wilson
Boulevard. I bought one of the highest points on Wilson Boulevard.
Why do I need flood insurance?
I think it all ties into this. Maybe you don't agree with me in all
these points, but do not give up the roads without considering the fact
that we have to have access.
Unless it's written in stone with terms like perpetuity and
guarantees that we will have access, do not give up the Collier
County roads that my parents have paid taxes on, that I continue to
pay taxes on. Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Frank Denninger, and he
will be followed by Mary Billie.
MR. DENNINGER: Hi. How you-all doing today? It's not
exactly a pleasure to be here, but it's good to live in a country you've
got the opportunity to be here.
I've heard some mention today that caught my attention. I don't
know if it was Mrs. Starnes or Mac'Kie, but they mentioned that
they're going to have -- for sure going to have recreation there, and
traditional type recreation. And then mention was made of
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June 10, 2003
Corkscrew Swamp Sanctuary. Well, that's a good type of recreation,
walking down a boardwalk and enjoying yourself watching nature.
But the traditional recreation here, in these areas, the swamps
full of mosquitos that nobody on earth ever wanted to see before they
were marketed as a great big thing to treasure -- okay, and I mean
marketed like Wall Street, okay, the equal to it -- the real traditional
recreation out in that area and other areas like it in South Florida is
airboating, swamp buggies, hunting, fishing, hiking, some canoeing,
and while you're out doing those activities, you do watch birds and
enjoy everything else that's going on.
And I feel that those activities are totally at risk if these roads
and the access they provide of this public access road network is
given away, due to the fact that while Division of Forestry is a good,
well-liked state agency, they're ruled over there by something else
that that $25 million Fish and Wildlife Service donation gave.
I was told by a regional director out there, U.S. Fish and
Wildlife Service has something to say out there. And why they got
something to say -- and I believe they get listened to real well by
DOF, is that a cooperative agreement that DOF was entered into
years ago with U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service for funding, financial
assistance for-- to help protect endangered species, and this
agreement is a tool to help the implementation of the endangered
species act within a sovereign state.
I believe they are not going to want to go against anything U.S.
Fish and Wildlife Service or even hints to out there because it could
potentially cost the funding source for research, job positions, et
cetera.
And I would -- think listen very carefully. This is not a joke. I
have a copy of the agreement I can make available if there's any
doubt about it. It's still in effect.
In fact, when the state sent me a copy of the agreement, a letter
commenting on the grant that can be sent down after you sign the
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'June 10, 2003
document was attached to the stuff I got. So if that ain't a little arm
twisting for bucks, I don't know what is.
And just please, you know, really do your best to withstand the
extreme pressures, which I know you-all are under. And I respect
you, and I appreciate you for being a real good county commission.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Mary Billie. She will be
followed by Wayne Jenkins.
MS. BILLIE: I can't walk. If I get there. I used to be Mary
Larkin, but I go back to my religer (phonetic) name now -- Mary
Billie now. So I'm going back to normal, I hope.
This lady they talking about, okay, here is what's going on.
Okay? I'm pretty sure they've been talking to James and Billy
Cypress, okay? You know-- you know what I'm talking about, I'll
bet ya.
Anyway, they trying to do a lot of things, to mess it up, so bad,
Everglades City now. Even here, county, same thing, make them
scramble, Everglades City scramble, and trail people, Seminole, the
whole deal, scramble right now, the whole package, and I don't like
it.
I've been praying for everybody in this earth, okay? They
trying to kick me out. They've been saying 2005, I believe, only two
years, okay? They using me, my family, trying to get the wrap -- the
whole thing to trial, trying to get me out. They got tough time all
those years, especially James, they trying to kick me out long time.
Now, he's out determined now, he ain't nobody now. So they
flipped over on this side, Miccosukee, okay? They digging the
money right now he needed desperately, and both of them together
screws everybody this south, and I don't like that.
They trying to kill me, long time. Almost got killed Sunday.
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June 1 O, 2003
That's why I had my leg -- I still standing up. Then -- okay. They
trying to wrap the whole thing.
Almost 2000 now -- 2002, I could say. Okay. They've been
saying five years, 2005, but I'm not -- I don't think so, only two
years.
They trying to kick us out soon, but I still hanging in there.
Almost I didn't Sunday, but they missed me, so close, so -- but here's
what's going to happen, okay? You turn up selling land over there,
okay, that road's going to -- coming through there or-- either way,
build an airport one way or another. It's going to happen. They
talking about something else. They trying to set us up. It's up to
you. I'm talking about everybody, not just to us. Okay, thank you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you, ma'am.
MS. BILLIE: I appreciate that.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Wayne Jenkins, and he will
followed by Cindy Kemp.
MR. JENKINS: Good afternoon, Commissioners. My name is
Wayne Jenkins. I am president of the Collier Sportsman
Conservation Club. We're a local organization that's primarily been
formed over the years for protecting our rights for enjoyment of the
outdoors in the Everglades area.
I came to speak to you today very frankly. I intend to call a
spade a spade, and I thought well, it is too harsh a words, but thanks
to Commissioner Coletta, I think I'm tamed down.
But I would like to take this opportunity to thank this
commission and past commissions for the support that you have
given the citizens of Collier County. This is nothing new. We have
been indulged in this several years.
It was through your efforts that we were able to stop the gating
of Jane Scenic Drive years ago, maintaining control of the Turner
River, Wagon Wheel and Burdon (sic) Roads in the Big Cypress.
They're county roads that are our roads. Thank you for your support.
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June 10, 2003
The attempted theft -- and I use the word theft -- of the Bums
Road by the federal government, again, you prevailed. It's our
property.
You have been our voice, and we personally commend you,
every one of you, for the job you're doing for us.
We're the small person. You are our voice. When the
government and cabinet request your action, what they're really
saying is we -- this is what we expect you to do. I hope you have the
courage, and I know you do from past actions, to say, we represent
the people.
We realize that this is a very difficult position it puts you in. I
think the correct terminology is political blackmail; do what we're
telling you or you're going to suffer appropriations. It's that simple.
Money's always been the trial, the name of the game. MR. PERKINS: Hear, hear.
MR. JENKINS: Please remember that you are representing the
citizens of Collier County as you have done in the past. Yes, we're
up for some tough negotiations. CERP, the Comprehensive
Everglades Restoration Project, is much bigger than me, much bigger
than you. It's going to happen, but we don't have to lose everything
we have to make it happen.
MR. PERKINS: Hear, hear.
MR. JENKINS: You have the negotiations for access, please
use them. We don't need gates out there. We need public access out
there.
MR. PERKINS: Hear, hear.
MR. JENKINS: Continued use by the Collier County Sheriff's
Department for control and patrol of these roads. They're our roads.
Local emergencies, we need it handled by our local officials, not
somebody that's going to fly over in a helicopter and try and figure
out where you're at. These people know it. We have the gentlemen
and ladies on the sheriff's department to respond, the team effort and
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June 10, 2003
the training they've had serves Collier County very well. Let's don't
lock them out.
We're talking about changes in the hydrology out there. Yes,
there's going to be changes. So let's look at appropriate uses. How
about airboats if it's going to be deeper water, swamp buggies if we
can't use vehicles by -- I'm talking street legal vehicles.
And mitigation, yes, you're going to mitigate. Let me give you
one suggestion from everything I've seen in the last 15 years in my
negotiations in dealing with government, please get it in writing.
This is where we have had to go back to to prove our point that we
do have rights. And if you just agree to, yeah, you can have it, we've
had it. ·
So in closing, I'd just like to say that -- Commissioner Halas
asked a question of, how do you -- or can we still continue to use Bad
Luck? It wasn't answered, and that's our question, how do we use it
when there's no road to get there.
The last thing I would urge you to do is re-read Dr. Struhs'
letter. He was representing the governor and cabinet, and I believe it
stated he was representing the interest of the governor and cabinet, so
he was taking their position on this, and that was his mandate to tell
you what they want from us.
Thank you. I apologize for running over. Three minutes is hard
to compensate for 50 minutes of the other part. Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Cindy Kemp, and she'll be
followed by Mary Stump.
MS. KEMP: Hello, I'm Cindy Kemp. First of all, I'd like to say
I appreciate the commissioners' dilemma of serving the interest of
their constituents while, at the same time, not upsetting the state or
the issue of roads for credits.
And I am in agreement with Governor Bush when he says to
find a way to work together; however, there are several ideas that I
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June 1 O, 2003
feel you need to consider as you go forward with discussion of such
an important plan.
We all want and require clean water and air, and I believe the
wars of the future will be water wars. So I do not reject the goal of
protecting our resources but rather the methods and the plans, which
I also believe to be contrived and controlling.
I am also appreciative of Commissioner Henning for the
questioning of Secretary Struhs' belief that this plan will solve the
water supply and the restoration situation.
My problem with this plan is that of giving away valuable assets
and subjecting the people to every whim and dictate of the state.
First question, why would the county put itself in a position of
vulnerability and impotence by giving away an asset? Secretary
Struhs says it's ludicrous for the county not to donate the roads.
Well, I say it's ludicrous for the county to donate the roads.
I am very concerned about Jesse Hardy. Question number two,
what will happen to him? Question three, will he able to get to his
home? Question four, is this the way we treat our citizens, let alone a
veteran? Thank God there are people like Jesse who put more value
in things other than money.
I appreciate Commissioner Coletta's concern for retaining public
access to the land. But question number five, will the Picayune go
the way of so many other state and national parks of shutting out the
public?
Question number six, do you know what is happening in
Yellowstone and Yosemite park? Thousands of people are
demonstrating and protesting lack of access to that park.
Question number seven, do you understand that the people do
not want some little, quote, park created in lieu of the real thing to
recreate in? It's like telling them, here, children, mommy and daddy
bought you a new sandbox. Now go over there to play and shut up.
MR. PERKINS: Hear, hear.
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June 10, 2003
MS. KEMP: If Governor Bush needs to see crowds of people
demonstrating out on the roads to get the message, that can happen.
The property rights people are dedicated and passionate about are our
rights.
And as was done for Jesse Hardy with a country-wide letter
writing campaign to the governor and the Sawgrass Rebellion dealing
with the same issues we discuss here today, then the governor will
see crowds.
I appreciate your time and understanding, and I hope you
consider these questions. (Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Mary Stump. And she will
be followed by Cathy Myers.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Ms. Stump, thank you for your
email.
MS. STUMP: Thank you. I was going to ask you if you-all got
my letter from Eva Armstrong about the potential flooding. Thank
you. Okay.
My name is Mary Stump. The way I see this is that you've got
three choices. You can either donate the roads or sell them, or you
can keep them and fight.
On March the 6th in Tallahassee, David Struhs -- there was an
informal round table meeting -- says, David Struhs says, four years
ago there was a poster. One million acres purchased over the last 10
years. During the last four years, we got 750,000 acres, 400 miles of
trails, 900,000 acres of state forest, and seven new state parks, thanks
to Governor Bush and his cabinet.
The State of Florida has doubled the pace of land acquisitions,
but we can do more. We're not satisfied.
Yesterday I was told the environmental purchases under
$250,000 can be bought without the consent of the cabinet, so the
buying continues. I ordered a breakdown of costs of all the land the
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June 10, 2003
taxpayers have purchased during the last several years. I should get
that today.
News press article. Okay. This is all about the Everglades
restoration. It says, the restoration is trying to put back enough
pieces so you can see the parts of the original picture without
removing anyplace people now live.
It also says, no one knows how big this restoration rebirth is.
Twenty-seven agencies, every utility and municipality in South
Florida, and 45 environmental groups are among the worker bees at
the table of this 1 O-course meal.
MR. PERKINS: Hear, hear.
MS. STUMP: Will the Everglades be healthy after billions are
spent? No one knows. Says so right here. This is an idea. It's a
concept. There are 68 projects in the plans, but timeline, dollar,
science are not, nor have the 68 projects been prioritized. The
difference between the project and Boston's big dig is that this one is
the size of New Jersey. Both put our grandkids in debt.
Some of us belong to a nationwide networking group. The
Sawgrass Rebellion was a part of it. Environmental activities, land
acquisitions, and saving the endangered whatever is going on at an
alarming rate all across the U.S. Their maps indicate the outcome of
their efforts. That's this map here. The red zones that you see are not
for human use. This is their maps. Not mine.
Environmentalists have become a cancer. You can be wading
healthy cells or you can become surgeons. But the people across the
country are tired of being kicked around in the name of
environmental support. Thank you. (Applause.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
MS. STUMP: I have plenty more maps, if anybody wants them.
I have 3,000.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I'd like a copy of it.
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June 1 O, 2003
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Cathy Myers, and she'll be
followed by your final speaker, Bernie Nobel.
MS. MYERS: Hi. I'm Cathy Myers. I own five acres off Sable
Palm Road Extension, and I was wondering how you can donate
something that you guys don't own, like the property out there. You
guys don't own the property you guys are wanting to donate.
Plus, the roads out there are not maintained. I had a Dodge
Neon 2000. The roads shook the brains bad out of it. I can't even
drive that car out there because the roads are so bad out there.
And -- because I've went down there quite a few times where
my husband's cross is, to put the flowers down there, and the road's
not maintained. They've got big chuckholes. They're terrible. You
should drive down there one day and find out how bad those roads
are.
And you guys promise us so much stuff out there. You know,
us people live out there. You promised us that Miller Extension was
going to be put through. It was never put through. You guys always
are taking something away from us, like you took 1-75 away from us,
the exit we used to get in and out, and now your water management
people are trying to take the rest of it away from us.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I didn't know I had ownership
of all these people out there.
MS. MYERS: Well --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I didn't know that the Board of
Commissioners closed off access to 1-75.
MS. MYERS: Well, you guys dug it up one day when we got --
come home from work, and the next day we didn't have a road there,
and that came from you guys.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I don't think so.
MS. MYERS: Check it out. Look back in your paperwork. It
happened.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: They must have did it when I
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June 10, 2003
wasn't here.
MS. MYERS: No, you weren't.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: You must have been on vacation.
MS. MYERS: It happened in -- it happened in '88.
MR. PERKINS: You guys weren't here.
MS. MYERS: We went home one day, we had a road. The
next day we didn't have a road. They dug it up. And now -- you
know, your water management now are going to come out and take
the rest of the roads away.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: They're your water
management. We didn't elect them or pay for them.
MS. MYERS: We didn't elect them either.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Your government runs them.
MS. MYERS: I didn't elect them either.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. But it's not our water
management.
You know, I kind of resent the attitude you're taking that it's the
commission that's doing this to you. It's not. We've been the
defenders.
If you check back, you'll see for many years now we've taken
many actions. We even came out with a -- I remember we passed a
recommendation soon after we started to pave Miller Boulevard. We
wondered why we didn't get any response from the environmental
communities, because we'd never be able to get the permits. They
knew it.
But we've been on that side all the time putting this fight up. It's
not a case that we've been ignoring you. We haven't. Don't lump us
in with everything else that's happened out there.
MS. MYERS: I just feel like -- I feel like -- I mean, my
husband got killed out there because -- and then when he died out
there because he couldn't get no help out there. I mean, I got a lot of
hate and anger.
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June 10, 2003
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I know, but direct it in the right
directions. You know, we've been here fighting the fight for a long
time. This isn't over yet.
MS. MYERS: I hope not. I just hope you guys don't give up all
our rights. Thank you. (Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The final speaker is Bernie Nobel.
MR. NOBEL: My name is Bernie Nobel, and I own property on
124 Miller, at the end of the road. And I'm also -- the map shows the
part of the property. It really isn't too clear, but it shows the property
of ours and Vince Storks'.
And we're sitting there with a situation where we will -- will not
be able to leave the property or go to the property if the roads are all
taken out. They were just -- they're coming to the point, wondering
about what the roadway's going to be, and it seems this is the only
way we find out anything. Communication in between the state and
the organizations or the different groups don't give you any
information. You're a property owner, and then they want to come
around and run around you. So that's one thing I've got.
And then also, what's the time frame on this here? Are they
talking six years from now, 10 years from now, or are they going to
do it tomorrow? Because I've got literature at home and maps at
home that there was going to be a -- pump stations put in on Stewart
and 100th in 1994 and '95. The pumps were going to go in that year.
I got the literature at home of that. I should have brought it along,
but I didn't think of it at the time, and those pumps never got in.
And if that's what's going to be, they're going to tell us they're
going to do this, and here we're talking 10 years down the road over
something, well, there's no time frames ever come up with this stuff.
And you never have anything that they went and followed
through with it. If they followed through with it, it would be a
different story, too, you'd know where you're at. Now you don't
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know where you're at on the property.
And then the part there of the roads, what type of roads are they
going to put in? I mean, they talk about they're going to put in good
roads, but I heard -- I got stuff at home that also shows that the roads
that were going in were gravel, going to put in gravel roads.
Well, there was going to be eight miles to our property of gravel
roads. Our emergency vehicles aren't going to be coming in on that
situation either, so it just-- and then you take the Big Cypress, that's
closed now. You can't even -- recreation. You can't even use it. It's
all closed.
Everything's closed in the Big Cypress now, which, I mean, was
notified in the papers, just a short -- now, what's going to happen
there, the same thing over there? Are they going to just go ahead and
say, oh, yes, you can use it all you want, recreation, and then the next
week, all of a sudden, no, you can't use it. So it's just -- things there
that I'd like to have considered and see what can be developed.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Is that -- that's the final speaker?
MS. FILSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Ms. Mac'Kie, it was stated that 16
other counties have donated, so is there any way that we can get a list
of those 16 counties and what they donated?
MS. MAC'KIE: I'm sorry. If I said that, that would be an
overstatement. There are 16 counties in the district. And where I
have done projects in other counties -- Martin was the one I
suggested to you-- they have paid cash in addition to help buy land.
But I'd be happy to give you that, and that's one example. I
can't think of many off the top of my head, but I would be happy to
give you a list of other counties who have spent money in support of
restoration as opposed to being a little uncertain about whether they
want to support restorations or not. I'll get that you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Yeah. Don't be confused about the
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June 10, 2003
support of restoration by Collier County.
capital improvement.
actually gave money.
they receive in that?
MS. MAC'KIE:
It's that we have an asset,
So we're stating that other counties have --
So what is the value, and what is the value that
I'd be happy to get you a list of our local
county partners and show you what they have contributed. I'm sure
Deb's writing that down as we speak.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And before the cabinet meeting, I
hope that the cabinet staff could stand up there and say, we want to
work with Collier County to resolve this issue instead of standing up
there and stating that Collier County doesn't want to work with the
state.
MS. MAC'KIE: And I think you will hear that. And I want --
because I love Collier County, I want to say this, that actions speak
louder than words, and what they're going to -- what they're going to
be looking for is some action on your part to say, we want to be
partners and participants. And the way -- the thing that you have to
partner with here is these roads.
And I've put this back on the overhead -- if I could call your
attention to it -- with bright yellow lines, because the red and blue
just didn't show very well. I want to be perfectly clear that you know
that these yellow -- these roads highlighted in yellow will be open to
residents 24/7, forever, post restoration. People who live there will
always be able to drive day and night on these roads. People who
don't live there will be able to drive on these roads in their cars
during daylight hours.
It won't require an ATV. It won't require an off-road vehicle.
These will be -- you can get on these roads during the daytime in
your Chevrolet and drive on these roads. That's -- so please let me, if
I accomplish nothing else today, at least make it clear that these
roads, post restoration, are going to be available for public -- daytime
public car use.
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CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Coyle, then
Commissioner Halas.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. The question -- I'd just like
to make a couple of comments, Ms. Mac'Kie. Would -- if there is
any kind of agreement, is there any problem making sure this map is
included as a condition of that agreement as far as access is
concerned?
MS. MAC'KIE: No problem whatsoever.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. The other thing is, like the
other commissioners, I'm concerned about the perception that Collier
County doesn't want to participate in Everglades restoration or
preservation. And, perhaps, one of the points that's being missed
here is that -- that almost 80 percent of Collier County has already
been -- been preserved.
MR. PERKINS: Hear, hear.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And when you're talking about
creating more swamps, you have to understand that there are some
people who say, we've got plenty of swamps. But what we need to
focus on is the action -- and I would hope that you would take this
message back to --
MS. MAC'KIE: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- Tallahassee for us, that I'd like
people to understand what we really have done. And just within the
past year with the rural fringe and the rural land study, we -- we
preserved, I think, 110,000 acres there, and there was no state
participation in that. That's something we did ourselves to the
chagrin of a lot of property owners, I might say.
The other thing is that the taxpayers of this county, for the first
time in history, voted a green space tax so we could purchase land
with our taxes. So all we're asking you to do is, if we work out a --
an agreement here, don't charge us twice. Don't take our roads and
then tell us that when we build a replacement road somewhere, we've
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June 1 O, 2003
got to pay you because we take over a drainage ditch next to
Immokalee Road whenever we want to widen the road. We're
saying, don't charge us twice. And that's all we're doing.
The proposal that has been made is one that requires nobody to
make any payments. You don't make payments, we don't make
payments. Everybody's happy. No money has to change hands.
So I would hope that this attempt to resolve this problem be
viewed in the light in which it is being made.
You know, you had a chance today to see some of the
endangered species --
MS. MAC'KIE: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- that we have in Collier County,
and they're not happy about any of this. And -- but pragmatically,
one thing I understand is, the federal government and the state
government have more authority and more money than we do. They
will ultimately get this land. We can go through a series of court
fights if we want to do it, but I'm sure that the federal and the state
governments will ultimately prevail.
I'd like to get the best arrangement we can for the people who
are present here, the landowners who have -- who are going to
continue living there, and the people who want to access the
property.
So we're all on the same team and then we're all reading from
the same sheet of music, I think, and I believe that if the -- if the state
will view this not from the standpoint of a greedy county trying to
extract something from somebody but from a county that has already
committed lots -- I don't know that there's another county in the State
of Florida that has diminished its tax base so dramatically as Collier
County.
Perhaps there is no other county in -- in the state that has 85 --
80 percent of its land already on the government rolls. So we've
done a lot, as you know, because you started some of this when you
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were here.
So I just hope that message can be conveyed to the people in
Tallahassee so that we can lend some balance as to this perception
that we are somehow greedy people who are trying to hold the state
up for some more money.
It is the state, by the way, that is forcing down unfunded
mandates on us, not the other way around.
MS. MAC'KIE: I appreciate that, and I'm confident-- I will do
my very best, and I'm confident that that message will get delivered
to the highest levels in the state government.
And I think you know -- like me, most of you probably voted
for our governor. I mean, Jeb Bush is not trying to take something
from anybody for nothing. He's just not.
But I'm glad that you brought up the green space amendment,
because that does -- I remember sitting in your chair and sometimes
feeling sort of overwhelmed by the weight of the people who could
come to the meeting and make a point. I want to take the moment to
remind you of the 70 percent of your county, I think that was the
number, who support restoration, as evidenced by their vote. And I
think you make some very valid points, Commissioner Coyle, about
sort of what has Collier County given. We gave at the office already,
kind of--
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And we give every day.
MS. MAC'KIE: Very good points. Yes, sir. I'm sorry. Well, !
just want to -- my attempt to bring this to resolution is to ask if you
will authorize your staff to work with us to come up with a program
by which the county gets some remuneration for the resource value
of the lands to be contributed to the restoration effort, namely the
roads. That's what I'd like to work toward, and I just wanted to put
that out on the table.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Well, let's answer that question, but
there's still some questions --
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June 10, 2003
MS. MAC'KIE: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- that Commissioner Halas,
Commissioner Coletta, Commissioner Fiala have.
So if we can go down the line just to answer your question.
Commissioner Coletta --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- authorize staff to move forward in
negotiations?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: What I want to do is talk a little
bit about the timetable, what we're planning to do. When this goes
forward and goes to Tallahassee, it comes back to us when, in
September for final review, or when? Does anyone know?
MS. MAC'KIE: What are you seeking to review? I don't
understand.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: In other words, what we're
going to be doing is authorizing staff to go and negotiate on our
behalf to see what can be done in Tallahassee. It's still got to come
back for final approval; am I correct?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Right.
MS. MAC'KIE: And you'd have to also formally vacate roads,
and so that is a vote that I think that could take place as early as July.
MR. MUDD: That takes a formal hearing, okay, advertised, in
order to vacate.
And Ramiro, you hang in there with me as we go down this
thing.
The other thing I would also say is -- and this kind of supports
Commissioner Coyle's -- I'm just trying to answer -- you know, the
governor has declared eminent domain on these particular parcels
and right-of-ways and roads; am I correct, Ramiro?
MR. MANALICH: We are not aware of that action being
formally declared. Now, there may have been manifestations that
indicate the desire to head toward that, but I'm not aware from our
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staff that we have had that.
MS. CHADWELL: We haven't been named.
MR. MANALICH: We've not been named as a litigant.
MS. MAC'KIE: But that continues -- the reason I'm here is to
try to avoid -- you know, we are on the same team, as the
commissioner said.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: If I could --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm not done.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, I just want to clarify one
issue.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Go ahead. Thank you very
much.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: It's my understanding that's the
next step --
MS. MAC'KIE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- that's going to occur if we don't
work out an arrangement, that eminent domain will be declared.
MR. PERKINS: It's a threat.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Coletta?
MS. MAC'KIE: Well, it certainly has been in southern Golden
Gate Estates on everything other than homesteaded properties, and
that has been scheduled for the governor and cabinet's consideration
a couple times, and they don't want to do it and continue to try to
avoid it, but I think it's a reasonable expectation.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And I -- one more time. I'm
going to remind you that there is a level of distrust -- MS. MAC'KIE: I know.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- of what's taking place. We
started off as a willing selling program and then it turned into
eminent domain.
MR. PERKINS: Hear, hear.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We also had other promises
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made that were only partially fulfilled or not at all. So when it comes
down to this, what we're going to be making a recommendation to
staff today to carry it on -- I guess it's not going to be a vote; am I
correct?
MR. MANALICH: I think you're just going to need to provide
direction.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. Well, that direction, I'm
going to be the lone dissenter, most likely, because I want to make a
message to the governor that there is discontent here in Collier
County, and that he better be willing to bargain, and I expect forestry
to come in here and tell us exactly what we're going to be getting for
our money.
MS. MAC'KIE: May I comment on that point? Because I did
consult with the forestry folks. Just on this point, a lot of people are
drawing conclusions based on how current projects, current
properties are managed by the Division of Forestry.
Fortunately or unfortunately for us, this restoration project is a
new creature. We cannot look at how things have been done in the
past, how forestry operates its properties and presume that it will
have the same plan of operation over this property because this is --
this is CERP, it's Everglades restoration, but it's a critical project
which precedes CERP, and it's -- there is a huge effort -- and I think
there's Collier County representation on the board that is studying
how to do recreational access.
All I want to say, and then I'll stop because it's not my turn --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I understand, I understand.
Ms. Mac'Kie, I understand what you're saying, but I'll tell you, I'll
put my blind trust in my creator before I will in the state.
MR. PERKINS: Hear, hear.
MS. MAC'KIE: Me too.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I want to see something. I
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want to see some solid promises made. Now, we have some good
promises here. And I'm not saying that this road's particular pattern
is evil. It might be a great thing in the end. I haven't had a chance to
discuss it at any great lengths with the people out there I represent.
But I do have very much concern over the other elements of
this, especially the ATV use. It was talked before about how they
were going to find other lands nearby. Obviously it hasn't happened.
We have Brian McMahon up here who serves on that committee,
and nothing's happening there.
Something has to be done. I've seen our roads in there as a card
to be played to be able to get something in the ultimate end that was
going to benefit the people of Collier County. The only problem is at
this point in the game, it's like we don't even sit there with a hand in
our-- hand of cards there. We've been totally ignored.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Coletta, do we want
to give direction to our staff to continue negotiating? That was the
question. And if we can get down to the other commissioners, I
would appreciate it.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. Commissioner Henning,
I appreciating your indulging me. I'll come back later if I have a
further comment.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Coyle, do you want
to give direction to --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I've got a question I want to ask.
THE COURT REPORTER: I can't hear you.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. There's too much talking
going on back there.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Ma'am, ma'am? We -- thanks --
ma'am, the Board of Commissioners are deliberating right now. You
had your chance to speak. If you have any other business, with the
state, you can do that after the meeting.
Thank you.
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June 10, 2003
Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. I would like to authorize
staff to continue discussions with Ms. Mac'Kie, if you're going to be
the primary -- primary point of contact. But we do need to tie down
some of these uncertainties about access and that sort of thing, for
both the recreational purposes and for the residents who are going to
continue living out there. So that needs to be a part of the discussion.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And I agree with -- we want to give
staff the opportunity -- and to continue negotiating, but not with our
money, not with the core -- or the Big Cypress or South Florida
Water Management, the taxes that we send to them. That's --
Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. I'm most concerned with
preserving our water sources for our future, for our future
generations. And I know that this is why the state and the feds have
come in to do this.
I also think that it is a boon for the outdoor recreation
community in that there won't be development there, and this will --
this will encourage more wildlife, more fishing, and so forth, as long
as they have access to using it. That's a strong point there.
So I encourage staff to work with South Florida Water
Management and come up with a plan.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Right, right.
Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Ms. Mac'Kie, I've got some
questions to ask you on the roadways that are going to be left there.
Number one is, are they going to be -- when you -- who's going
to take responsibility of these roads? Is the federal government
going to take -- do this or who is --
MS. MAC'KIE: Division of Forestry will do the maintenance.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: The Division of Forestry.
MS. MAC'KIE: Because the ownership will be with the state,
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and they are the land management arm of the state.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And in what state -- what state are
you going to have these roads in at all times? MR. PERKINS: Terrible.
MS. MAC'KIE: I guess that be will be determined by the
management plan more specifically, because I can't really answer for
Division of Forestry. I wish I knew the answer.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. Are these roads going to be
elevated and are you going to have flowways under these roads?
MS. MAC'KIE: The roads that are highlighted here in yellow
are going to be passable by automobile even during the wet season.
The roads that are shown here and not highlighted will be possibly by
automobile but will be wet under -- will be under water during part of
the wet season.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'm primarily interested in the
roads that are in the yellow. Are they going to be elevated?
MS. STARNES: They won't be elevated above what they are
now, but they will be maintained at the elevation they're currently at.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: But how are you going to continue
the sheetflow across this -- there's going to -- there's going to have to
be some type of--
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, let me help just a little bit, and it's
just one of the things that you didn't -- that you didn't get that came
up. When you talk about re-establishing the sheetflow --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Right.
MR. MUDD: -- this is alternative 3-D that you were briefed on
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Right, yep.
MR. MUDD: -- in January. Three pumps staying, a series of
canal blocks that will be put in. And what will happen is, in this
56,000 acres, they're basically going to get it so that it's -- the water
sheetflow in this 56,000 acres is re-established.
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is--
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Right, but --
MR. MUDD: I want to make sure that --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I understand that, but the question
MR. MUDD: The sheetflow-- the sheetflow is not
re-established south of U.S. 41. What happens, because this water is
now here and this area now a big sponge is there's less water going
out and exiting that's going out into the Gulf and out into the Ten
Thousand Islands. So that's the area.
And if you look at the road network that was on the previous
one, you'll notice the red lines here. This is 1-75. You can kind of
see, that one's going down Spencer, down to Jane Scenic Drive, and
it's sitting in there.
So what they're basically doing is cutting the canals across in
these particular roads. If they're north of the pump stations, they
don't need culverts underneath of them, okay? So the only thing
that's going to need culverts is this particular road, and they already
exist.
So the road network that you have out there that they're taking
over, they're going to use with little or no improvement to them.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. In their earlier discussion
they did say that there was going to be a semi sheetflow down to the
Gulf.
MS. MAC'KIE: Yes, sir, we --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: But obviously you're -- that's
incorrect?
MS. MAC'KIE: No, sir. I think the one point we might
disagree with is there will be some sheetflow south of 41 to the Gulf,
just -- not as significantly as north. Janet, why don't you help.
MS. STARNES: Basically by re-establishing this sheetflow in
southern Golden Gate Estates, if you don't-- we also have a separate
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project that corrects the culverting along Tamiami Trail to
re-establish the appropriate sheetflow south of the Trail.
So basically, southern Golden Gate Estates will sheetflow to the
Trail, it will then go under those culverts, it will go under Tamiami
Trial and maintain sheetflow within, south of the --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: In order to get this to happen,
you're going to have to do something with U.S. 41 though?
MS. STARNES: Correct, and--
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
MS. STARNES: -- that's the Tamiami Trail project, correct.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Now I get the picture.
MR. MANALICH: Mr. Chairman, before you ask for direction,
I'd just ask --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I did a long time ago, but go ahead.
MR. MANALICH: Well, to clarify that directly, Assistant
County Attorney Ellen Chadwell might have a couple of comments
that might help you.
MS. CHADWELL: For the record, Ellen Chadwell.
I just heard Ms. Mac'Kie ask for the board to direct or if they
were going to give direction to negotiate on the resource value of the
lands. That was one of the methodologies that she complained was
more appropriate.
It's my understanding that is not the methodology that staff has
originally proposed to the district. So I just wanted the board to be
clear what direction they were giving us. If they want staff to just
negotiate in general and see if there are some terms that can be met,
or perhaps the district is saying that that's the only term under which
they will negotiate. So maybe we need some clarification on that
point.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And I'm not sure if we can get the
clarification, but I'll ask for it again, and what the direction is.
Commissioner Coletta, the direction and the clarification under
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this item; do we want to give direction to our staff, and what is that
direction?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, the direction I would like
to see is, one, I am for the restoration. There's no doubt about that.
The access issue that I -- needs to be dealed (sic) with. And I thought
that Commissioner Coyle came up with that, and I heard support
from you on it, and I think I also heard it from Halas, I'm not too
sure, but it seems like there is direction for the access issue to be tied
into this along with a monetary issue, and I think that has to be done.
I'd like to see public meetings, too, but that's -- right now, that's the
direction I'd like to see for staff, access issue, access issue, access
issue.
MS. MAC'KIE: If I may, the only comment that I've heard
from the board that isn't something that I have any authority to at
least discuss is a funding source. And if that is the end of the
discussion, we may not have anything to talk about, because I don't
have a funding source besides the Big Cypress Basin.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: If I can? Can we explain--
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: There's no funding.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Yeah.
There's no funding.
COMMISSIONER COYLE:
MS. MAC'KIE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COYLE:
right?
MS. MAC'KIE:
happen --
It's not going to cost you a penny,
If I can work it the right -- the way it should
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah.
MS. MAC'KIE: -- is that -- go back to what I said at the
beginning, you're building a road, you're impacting an acre of wet
prairie.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
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June 1 O, 2003
MS. MAC'KIE: The district requires you to buy and donate
three acres of wet prairie to offset that impact. What you're saying,
and what I think we can -- I hope we can do, is that in your 2,300
acres of-- if it's wet prairie that you would be donating to the state,
you would get credit -- you would take three acres out of your 2,300
and check that off as how you paid for your impacts of wet prairie.
That does not require concurrency and that is doable.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Let me -- let me provide a
variation. Of course, you can get into this, but that's where I think
we -- I can't predetermine the outcome of the negotiations. All I can
say is get together and work out whatever we can, and then the
county manager will come back to us and he'll tell us, either say yes
or no. But let me -- let me point out this fact, that they're -- we're
right now widening Immokalee Road, and we're having to buy some
mitigation credits for that purpose. MR. PERKINS: Extortion.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Now, it's -- it might be three to
one, it might be more than that. I don't know. But the problem I
have is, that there are very few pristine mangroves situated within 30
feet or 40 feet of Immokalee Road. What you want to do is to create
a pristine area, and those roads out there are critical for that purpose.
Now, what I wouldn't want to do is to have to give -- have to
take one acre of drainage ditch along Immokalee Road and provide
three acres of supposedly pristine --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Pepper hedge.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- yeah, pristine wetlands in the
southern Golden Gate's (sic) Estates.
MS. MAC'KIE: You're giving me three acres of asphalt, which
doesn't have a resource value. I mean, that's another thing we have to
factor into this.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: But it's critical, according to your
plan, that you have that in order to create the pristine wetlands that
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June 10, 2003
we -- you wish to establish. So I think it has a higher value than just
a piece of asphalt or piece of dirt road. And all I'm suggesting is that
when we discuss this thing, I don't want to get locked in on a wet
percentage at this point in time.
MS. MAC'KIE: I'm certainly not suggesting, because I'm
making up those numbers of three to one. I'm making that up. I do
not know.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I was sort of thinking like one --
one to one or something, but nevertheless -- my understanding of the
guidance is that we let the staff and Ms. Mac'Kie work it out, come
back to'us and tell us what they've come up with, as long as they
address the access.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Right. And I'm going to agree with
that. I see Commissioner Halas is and Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: (Nods head.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Is a yes. Okay.
Are we done with this issue?
MS. MAC'KIE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Now Commissioner Halas, you had a
question.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Let's go to lunch.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: That wasn't your question.
Commissioner Coyle -- Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: No, I'm okay.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: All set.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: We going to lunch or just take a
1 O-minute break? We've got a lot of public here that wants to
address the board.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: About what?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Well, we've got Dover, Kohl and--
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, you're going to be here till, my
estimate is 6:00, 6:30 tonight.
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COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Take a lunch. Half an hour is
fine by me. I don't care.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Fiala says 15
minutes. Is that a good enough lunch for us?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Half hour, half hour.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Half an hour, okay. We'll adjourn
(sic) at two o'clock. Or convene, reconvene at 2:00.
(A luncheon recess was taken.)
Item #13A
RESOLUTION 2003-212 REGARDING NEW PRECINCT
BOUNDARIES AND NUMBERS TO REFLECT COMMISSION
DISTRICT FIOI JNDARIES-ADOPTFD
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Everybody take their seats, please.
Board of Commissioners are now in session.
Mr. Mudd, where are we at on our agenda?
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, we're -- we're at --
MS. FILSON: Eight.
MR. MUDD: We're at item --just take a look for a second --
we're at 8(A). And what I would -- what I would ask to do prior to
that -- and, you know, we had a one o'clock for the -- a brief from our
lobbyist on the legislative session, but I would -- I would appreciate
the board's indulgence if we could bump up Jennifer Edward and get
to her, because it's a very short presentation, and it's something you
can do quickly.
And the next thing is 10(D), which is a bonding issue, and we
have our financial representative, Bill Regan, here and his crew, and
that's a good news item in the fact that they're going to refinance the
bond and save about $3 million in interest payments, and we can get
those folks gone back on their way, and their clocks can quit ticking
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June 10, 2003
as far as paying them is concerned.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Ms. Filson, do we have any public
speakers on supervisor collections recommendation to the board on
the precincts?
MS. FILSON: 16(G)? No, sir.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Any question by the Board of
Commissioners?
(No response.)
MR. MUDD: And this 13(A), which used to be 16(J)3, which is
the precinct boundaries issue.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Commissioner Henning, I'd like to
make a move to accept the new district numbers. I've gone through
them. I think that they're much easier for us to understand, and it
will be easier for the public to use as well.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And I'll second that motion.
Ms. Edwards?
MS. EDWARDS: I know you're busy today, you have a lot on
the agenda, and I appreciate your support. And I just would like for
the public to know that the change means that all of the precincts
within the respective commission and school board districts will
begin with the same digit as the respective district so that all
precincts, for example, in District 1 will begin with a one.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: For the record, that was the Collier
County Supervisor of Elections, Jennifer Edwards. Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And also, am I under the
assumption that there's not going to be any more split precincts?
MS. EDWARDS: There will be no split precincts regarding the
commission districts--
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Right.
MS. EDWARDS: -- and school board districts only. We will
still have split districts for other districts.
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June 1 O, 2003
CHAIRMAN HENNING:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING:
motion, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
MS. EDWARDS: But that will help the voters also. And we
will be doing an education program in the fall, and we will be
sending new voter ID cards to all voters in November or December.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Thank you very much.
Any-- any further questions?
Seeing none, all in favor of the
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING:
Opposed?
Motion carries, 4-0.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And let's wish them well on their
float for the Fourth of July Parade.
MS. EDWARDS: Thank you, thank you very much,
Commissioners.
Item #1 OD
CWS RESOLUTION 2003-01 AUTHORIZING THE ISSUANCE
BY THE COLLIER COUNTY WATER-SEWER DISTRICT OF
ITS (1) COLLIER COUNTY WATER-SEWER DISTRICT
TAXABLE WATER AND SEWER REFUNDING REVENUE
BONDS, SERIES 2003A, IN THE AGGREGATE PRINCIPAL
AMOUNT OF NOT EXCEEDING $15,000,000 IN ORDER TO
PROVIDE FOR THE REFUNDING OF A PORTION OF THE
DISTRICT'S OUTSTANDING TAXABLE WATER AND SEWER
REFUNDING REVENUE BONDS, SERIES 1994A, AND (2)
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June 1 O, 2003
COLLIER COUNTY WATER-SEWER DISTRICT WATER AND
SEWER REFUNDING REVENUE BONDS, SERIES 2003B, IN
THE AGGREGATE PRINCIPAL AMOUNT OF NOT
EXCEEDING $40,000,000 IN ORDER TO PROVIDE FOR THE
REFUNDING OF A PORTION OF THE DISTRICT'S
OUTSTANDING WATER AND SEWER REFUNDING REVENUE
BONDS_ SERIFS 1994B-ADOPTED
MR. MUDD: The next item, Commissioner, would be 10(D),
which is a recommendation to adopt a supplemental bond resolution
authorizing the issuance by the Collier County Water/Sewer District
of its number one Collier County Water/Sewer District Taxable
Water and Sewer Refunding Revenue Bonds, Series 2003A, in the
aggregate principal amount not to -- exceeding $15 million in order
to provide for the refunding of a portion of the district's outstanding
Taxable Water and Sewer Refunding Revenue Bonds, Series 1994A,
and two, Collier County Water/Sewer District Water and Sewer
Refunding Revenue Bonds, Series 2000B -- 2003B, in the aggregate
principal amount of not to exceed $40 million in order to provide for
the refunding of a portion of the district's outstanding Water and
Sewer Refunding Bond, Series 1994B.
And Mike Smykowski will be the principal presenter.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I make a motion to approve this
item.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion by Commissioner Henning,
second by Commissioner Halas.
Mr. Smykowski, do you have to get anything on the record?
MS. SMYKOWSKI: No, sir. Just your adoption of the bond
resolution authorizing the transaction to be completed.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Any --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: That saves us a lot of money.
Page 13 8
June 10, 2003
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes. Actually the -- an updated estimate
is in excess of $5 million based on current market conditions, so
hopefully the market trend will hold for when the actual closing will
occur.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Questions on this item by the Board
of Commissioners?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Seeing none, all in favor of the
motion, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: The motion carries, 5-0 (sic).
MS. FILSON: Four.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
Item # 10C
I.EGISI.ATIVE l IPDATF. TO THE FICC-PRESENTF, D
Next item is our legislation update by Keith Arnold.
MR. ARNOLD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the
board. You should have in your packets the legislative updates
which were provided to you last week as part of your packages.
I will be as brief as you would like me to be. I know your
agenda is very, very crowded today and you have a lot of
constituents that you want to hear from.
Just generally speaking, I think we all knew that this legislative
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session would be very, very difficult in terms of the financial issues
that face the state legislators and the governor. Clearly there was a
concern that the legislature may, in fact, push some of the
responsibilities of state government onto local government and
would do so without the funding mechanisms to provide those
services.
I think if I was to summarize the legislative session, I would
simply suggest that we probably didn't do as bad as we feared we
would, but we certainly didn't do as good as we'd hoped we would
have either.
Economic times are tough. Virtually every state in the nation is
facing budget deficits. Congress has responded by appropriating
some moneys, but the reality is, is that the shortfalls are significant.
Probably to complicate issues, or at least in my judgment, the
legislature is using an awful lot of nonrecurring money to finance
recurring needs. And to give you a specific example, agency head
salaries this year are being funded by nonrecurring dollars for the
leadership in Tallahassee, the various agencies.
What that means, of course, is next year, that the difficulties we
experience financially this year in the state are only going to be
compounded by greater difficulties next year unless there is a
wholesale turnaround of the economic environment we -- we find
ourselves in.
You just approved a bond issue which saved you money. I think
we need to keep in mind that the reasons that that bond issue has
saved you money is because of the declining interest rate because of
the continued effort by the feds to stimulate the economy. Interest
rates have moved downward. And clearly, the economic conditions
that the fed is trying to stimulate has hit state budgets and state
budget finance officers very, very difficulty in the last several year,
but none more than this year.
If you'll find on page three of your summary some of the
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June 10, 2003
legislative issues that you identified as priorities. And I won't go
through these one by one. But as I said, an awful lot of the funding
issues which we had an interest in, those trust funds were either
eliminated or cut severely to fund basic aspects of state government,
whether it's education or transportation, or what it may have been.
The beach renourishment. Beach renourishment trust funds
were virtually eliminated. This session took major hits in terms of
recurring expenditures, historical preservation, cultural affairs,
FERDAP grants, parks and recreation. The list goes on and on and
on and on, and not the least of which was transportation. The
transportation trust fund was raided by over $200 million, again, to
finance recurring state needs with nonrecurring dollars, which meant
fewer transportation projects throughout the state.
Notwithstanding that, on page four you'll see a list of some of
the transportation items which were funded in Collier County.
Again, I won't read through these individually. To the extent I can
answer any of your questions either privately or here publicly,
certainly I'd be willing to do so.
On page five, we go through some of the bills that had a very
direct impact on Collier 'County and some of the bills you expressed
an interest in.
House Bill 849 was your codification of your water and sewer
special acts here in Collier County. That was shepherded through the
process by Representative Goodlette. And certainly through his fine
stewardship, this bill did become law.
The next bill is House Bill 113(A). This is a troublesome bill.
This is one that deals with the Article V issues that are very, very
perplexing and very costly to you as local government officials.
Having sat through many of your discussions this morning, I --
in Tallahassee, the issues we deal with affect the public of this state
in a very indirect way. You sit here as county commissioners and
you deal with issues that affect your constituents in a very direct
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June 10, 2003
way. This bill will have a very direct impact on the constituents that
you serve.
The legislature in my judgment has responded in almost a
punitive way with essentially suggesting to counties and to the court
system that Article V, and the revision of Article V, was pushed on
the state by local governments and by the judiciary, and, therefore,
the legislature has taken the position essentially that since, in their--
from their perspective the issue has been forced on them by local
governments, they'll extract from local governments the ability to
pay for the Article V mandates.
Probably the most compelling example of that in this particular
bill is the requirement that all circuit -- all fees generated through the
clerk's office are now going to inure to the benefit of state
government and not to local government, and those fees, in fact, will
begin funding some of the court responsibilities that the state is now
encumbered by in the Article V constitutional amendment.
Also in this bill is a continued study. Remember, there was a
fade in -- phase in of Article V mandates. And in this bill is a
continued study the legislature deferred to the comptroller and to the
new constitutional office of chief financial officer, which is, in this
case, Commissioner Gallagher. They have funded a study and
required him to come back to the legislature next year and make
further recommendations for the final phase of Article V funding.
I would suggest to you that the difficulties the legislature
experienced with Article V this year are only going to be exacerbated
next year by, again, some of the funding decisions they had to deal
with in the context of the economy and dwindling state resources.
Next year will be very, very difficult in trying to keep local
government whole with respect to Article V funding. And the
legislative attitude, again, seems to be very punitive in nature, and so
it's something that I think we need to be very, very wary of.
The strategic intermodal bill you'll find on the bottom of page
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June 1 O, 2003
six. That's a transportation rewrite, I think, pertinent to Collier
County. I would suggest that since this committee is going to have a
significant impact on arterial roads in the State of Florida, that we
will want to pursue either a gubernatorial appointment or an
appointment by the presiding officers of each chamber to have a
Collier County representative on this committee.
I think that's clearly worthy of all of our efforts, and I think that
because of the geographic isolation which we kind of find ourselves
in in this comer of the state and because of the massive size, that
Collier County is geographically the largest physical county in the
State of Florida, that we would all be well served if we could have an
appointment to that statewide advisory committee which will make
significant decisions in determining which transportation projects are
worthy of legislative funding and which are not.
Moving along to Senate Bill 24A, which you find on the bottom
of page nine. Again, of interest to me in this particular bill -- this is
an infrastructure bank bill, and this allows for greater bonding of toll
roads in the State of Florida, and these are principally state toll roads.
But kind of the interesting thing, the interesting point of this bill
is that there is a requirement that if those toll facilities are to -- if the
price on those toll facilities are to increase, thereby allowing for
greater bonding of those revenues, then those revenues have to be
giving some specific priority in the county in which the tolls occur.
And that has great relevance to Collier County, as Alligator
Alley is one of the five or six state toll roads in the -- under the state
jurisdiction, and so presumably there would be some funding
mechanism for local transportation projects under this bill. And I
view this as one of the bright spots during the legislative sessions this
year and something to draw your attention to and, again, I think we
will want to watch as we move forward over the next several months.
1660 is a bill. There are many bills which tried to usurp local
government authority. This was one of them. This bill is basically a
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June 1 O, 2003
bill which suggests that in terms of dealing with landowners who are
also in the agricultural business, that to the extent that they're
regulated by other state or federal agencies, you may not have any
duplicative regulations placed on them which would be in view of the
legislature, either duplicative or burdensome.
It's really unclear how this bill's going to work out over the long
haul. There were several issues which gave rise to this bill in the
first place. But suffice it to say, the State of Florida is basically
saying that you can't unduly regulate lands that are ostensibly used
for agricultural purposes.
And the initial reference of this bill dealt a fair amount with
zoning matters, and those issues have been removed from the bill, but
nevertheless it's something I think we're going to want to watch over
time.
Just jumping to page 13. There is a bill which allows for you to
utilize more of your gas tax revenues for bicycle paths and pedestrian
right-of-ways. I know that's been an issue that you've dealt with a
little bit here in Collier County. It doesn't allow -- it doesn't give you
any more moneys to do so, it just allows the usage of those gas tax
revenues for the pedestrian uses that are ancillary to the roadway
itself.
At the bottom of the page, 1632, an interesting bill. Again, of
great relevance to this county and local governments in general.
MR. MUDD: Do you want to talk a little bit about the
enterprise zone in Immokalee right here? MR. ARNOLD: Sure.
MR. MUDD: On 2164, just so Commissioner Coletta gets --
MR. ARNOLD: Absolutely. That is -- that was a fun one to
work on.
As you'll see, Commissioners, Immokalee was added to the state
enterprise zone list. That was done to a large extent at the suggestion
of Commissioner Coletta and others. And what this will do
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June 1 O, 2003
hopefully is stimulate business development in an area that
absolutely could utilize an awful lot of business development on a
tax favorable basis.
So hopefully if this bill or the -- if the modus behind this bill
work we will see -- encourage local and state businesses to relocate
to Immokalee, thus stimulating the local economy and providing jobs
for a population that so desperately needs it.
So I enjoyed working with Commissioner Coletta on that and
the citizens of Immokalee, and I think hopefully it will prove to be
beneficial for them in the long run.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you for that.
MR. ARNOLD: 1632, one you-- I think county staff will want
to take a look at. This bill changes the very nature of MSTUs and
MSBUs in the State of Florida and allows great expansion of the
revenues generated through MSTUs and MSBUs for measures with
-- to protect the health, safety, and welfare of the local citizens.
In essence -- I'll let the constitutional lawyers play around with
this one, but, in essence, it seems to me almost a way to get around
the 10 mill cap requirements of the State of Florida. CHAIRMAN HENNING: That's good.
MR. ARNOLD: Yeah. It's a bill that allows you to employ an
MSTU or an MSBU for virtually any service that you would
designate appropriate. I think there are a lot of constitutional issues
and legal issues to kind of work them -- work themselves out over the
period of the next several years on this, but it is one that I think will
-- a lot of local governments will be eyeing very closely over the next
several years as state resources continue to dwindle.
Be careful what you ask for. On the top -- on page 14 is a bill
which, in large measure, is a response to the issue which you found
yourself somewhat involved in down here, where the large state
utility, Florida Water Services, was proposed to be sold to local
governments in the Panhandle.
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June 10, 2003
This bill is in direct response to that and'inserts you very
directly in the decision-making process of whether utilities can be
sold or not and allows the public the opportunity to appeal those
decisions directly to you.
It also puts you, I would argue, in almost a rate-setting capacity
and requires of you the responsibility of adjudicating the issues
between local citizens and a public utility in trying to determine, A,
whether a rate increase is appropriate given the sale of a particular
utility, whether the rate increase is sufficient or not to amortize the
debt service, or whether it is simply too high and is unneeded in
those cases.
I think this is an unfortunate bill and puts you in an unfortunate
capacity of sitting as a quasijudicial body, almost in a capacity
similar to the PFC.
Having said that, it does give your constituents the ability to
appeal some of these decisions directly to you, and to some extent,
allows you to preclude those mergers and acquisitions from taking
place.
Again, a bill that is going to have a lot of case law behind it
before everything is said and done, so one to watch over the next
several years.
Finally, I conclude with two bills which again, you were very
interested in, the HCRA bill on page 15. It did not pass. As you
know, that was a bill that was sponsored here and had great fiscal
impact on, frankly, in this case, not only Collier County, but Lee
County.
And House Bill 29 would have had a -- 929 would have had a
positive fiscal impact. That's the indexing of the local option sales --
or gas tax. That was a high priority of yours, as it has been.
The house leadership viewed that as a tax increase and
continues to view that as a tax increase. And sort of in the antitax
environment that we find ourselves in, neither of these bills were
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June 1 O, 2003
attractive to legislative leaders, and so they both -- they both suffered
the same fate for altogether different reasons, but mainly because of
the fiscal issues associated with them.
That concludes my presentation. I'll be happy to answer any
questions. And I think, furthermore, Mr. Chairman, I know, again,
you're pressed for time. I'll be happy, at your direction, to meet with
the commissioners individually, if that's your desire, or-- and the
staff, to provide any further updates. But I'm here at your disposal.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I can do that independently of
this meeting. No reason to tie up the meeting with questions at this
time.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Anybody else?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I view Senate Bill 1660 as a good
government thing. Less government regulating the small farmer.
That's my viewpoint and -- on 1660. So, good for the Senate.
Okay. Thank you, Mr. Arnold, for being here with us today.
MR. ARNOLD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it.
Item #8A
AN ORDINANCE OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA, TO
PROTECT AGAINST HAZARDS FROM SUBSTANDARD
CONSTRUCTION IN PUBLIC RIGHT-OF-WAY; PROVIDING
PURPOSE AND DEFINITIONS; ADOPTION OF
CONSTRUCTION STANDARDS HANDBOOK; REQUIRING
PERMITS; REQUIRING REMOVAL OF OFFENDING
MATERIAL FROM RIGHT-OF-WAY; REPEALING
ORDINANCE NO. 82-91, AS AMENDED BY ORDINANCE 89-
26, AS AMENDED BY ORDINANCE 93-64; PROVIDING RULE
OF CONSTRUCTION OF THIS ORDINANCE; PROVIDING FOR
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June 10, 2003
CONFLICT AND SEVERABILITY, PROVIDING FOR
PENALTIES; PROVIDING AN EFFECTIVE DATE-STAFF TO
RESOLVE DETAILS AND BRING BACK TO THE NEXT
MEETING ON Jl JNE 24_ 2003
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Next item is 8(A).
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: This is an ordinance of Collier
County, Florida, to protect the hazards -- substandard construction in
public right-of-way providing a purpose and definitions; adoption of
construction standard handbook; requiring permits for -- requiring to
remove (sic) of offending material of right-of-way and appealing
(sic) ordinance number 82-91, as amended by ordinance 89-29 (sic),
and (sic) amending by ordinance 93-64; providing the rule of
construction of the ordinance; providing for conflict and severability,
providing penalties and providing effective dates.
And I have a little note that this is a public hearing, so if that's
true everybody needs to be sworn in that's going to participate? No?
We have --just close the public hearing when we vote on it. All
right.
Mr. Kant?
MR. KANT: Edward Kant, transportation operations director.
Before I begin anything specific to this item, I'd like to offer an
apology to the commission and to the administration for failing to get
a copy in advance -- well enough in advance for you.
I was under the mistaken impression that that had been provided
when this first came up on the May 27th meeting. I will endeavor to
see that that does not happen again. And, again, I apologize for any
inconvenience that may have caused you.
This is a continuation from that meeting. Several questions had
been raised with regard to clarifying some language, and I have
asked Mr. Riley, who is in charge of that section, to make a very
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June 10, 2003
short presentation to address those issues and any other questions you
may have. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
MR. RILEY: For the record, Mitch Riley, transportation
operations, right-of-way section. Good afternoon.
The last time we were here, you had two items that
Commissioner Henning had some concerns about the wording.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Now that I have the handbook, I
have other concerns.
MR. RILEY: Yeah. On page three of seven of the ordinance
itself, the first item was the word vicinity. We are going to require
the public, the utility companies, to notify the residents in the
vicinity of the proposed activities, and we replaced the word vicinity
with 300 feet. That was the first change that we made.
The second part was -- yeah, and that is consistent with the
LDC. That's where we got the number.
The second part was require documentation when -- at the time
when the applicant comes and applies for the permit, there was a
phrase there that, but not necessarily be limited to, which was in
addition to whatever documents that they have, and you wanted
clarification on that. We strike that line out altogether. Those were
the only two items that you brought up in that meeting, so that's the
gist of what we did since that meeting. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay.
MR. RILEY: I'll be glad to answer any questions --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Any question by the board
members?
Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you. I'm concerned
about -- would you explain to me the special consideration
requirements for Immokalee to be eliminated?
MR. RILEY: From what I understand, many years ago they had
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June 1 O, 2003
an office in Immokalee that handled the right-of-way permits, and
they required three copies of the application. With this change, they
only have to bring two copies and everything is done here in our
office. They stopped doing the processing of right-of-way
application in Immokalee, from what I understand, back in the late
'80s.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's before my time, that's
for sure.
MR. RILEY: Mine, too.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. If I may, do we have a
permitting office in Immokalee that their part -- I think it's, what,
three days a week? Don't we have one there? MR. RILEY: I believe so.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Can't we pick this up again in
Immokalee and continue the practice? I mean, we're talking a
45-mile drive, one way.
MR. RILEY: That's something, if the board directs us, we'll be
glad to look into that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, how involved would it
be?
MR. KANT: Edward Kant, again. If we can coordinate, and I
don't see any reason why we can't, with the building department, if
they are still going through the same application procedures, we
probably wouldn't have a problem on single family. Commercial
might still be a little bit of a problem--
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay.
MR. KANT: -- because we don't -- we just can't staff it. But we
also have the ability to do applications electronically, and we do an
awful lot of work through the mail, at least locally we do. So if I
sense the board's direction that you want to try to re-establishing that
link, we can certainly do that.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I kind of hope so, if we can do
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June 10, 2003
it with the -- especially if we can do it with the personnel that we
now have on hand, you know, for the residential for sure, and the
commercial might be a little more involved, I agree with you there.
MR. KANT: We've not yet, in the year plus that we've been
running this through our department, we haven't had any scheduling
problems with inspections, we haven't had any complaints about, you
know, getting stuff back and forth.
So we know that the fieldwork is being handled quite
efficiently. Let me look into it and I'll be happy to report back, and if
it's something we can do, we'll just do it.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I appreciate it, because the idea
is not to provide less services, to hold the status quo, maybe provide
a little more.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: If we're going to do that, could we
take District 3 out of this bureaucracy and not have a handbook and
ordinance?
MR. KANT: I'm sorry, Commissioner, I don't follow your
question.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Halas, you had a
question?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes. To get back to the question
that Commissioner Coletta had. Do we have a fast track system set
up electronically so that it's not cumbersome and we address the
issues in regards to permits out there?
MR. RILEY: The permits are on the web page. Anyone can
access the web page and apply for a permit electronically, yes.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. And it's very
straightforward? Okay.
MR. RILEY: I do believe so, yes.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Provided you've got a
computer and you can speak English.
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June 10, 2003
MR. RILEY: That's very true. We get a lot of Hispanics (sic)
customers, and we have translators that help us with that, that's very
true.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: We so much appreciate that,
that extra touch, you know, dealing with our Spanish speaking
constituents in Immokalee. We appreciate that. We really do.
MR. RILEY: We have very good staff members that help us on
a daily basis with that chore, yes.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Well, I guess where I was going
with this is that maybe we can -- there might be some groups out
there that would donate some of their time and were bilingual and
could assist in this matter.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: You already have it covered.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Do we?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
MR. RILEY: I think we have that covered, yes.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HENNING:
MR. RILEY: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HENNING:
Mr. Riley?
You're asking us to revise the
handbook to, number one, addition of the direct bore as a method of
underground installation. Where does that fit in -- into the handbook,
so I understand the flow of the handbook?
MR. RILEY: Before the handbook only had jack and bore for
installing the pipe under a roadway. Jack and bore and open/cut. If I
use an analogy, jack and bore compared to this directional bore is
like working on a manhole or a keyhole as far as damage to the road
would be, so this is a much better system. As far as the page number
in the handbook, is that what you're asking me?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: You're asking us to take specific
action to amend the handbook--
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June 10, 2003
MR. RILEY: Because--
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- 1 through 10, so I want to know
where that fits into the handbook so I understand.
MR. RILEY: Right. One of the -- we have been using the
directional bore for years, and it's about time they put it in the book
actually. And if you go to page eight of the handbook that was hand
delivered to your office, that's where it's talking about the different
methods of installing a pipe under the roadway. And you have jack
and bore, pushing pipes, and now we have the directional bore also.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Jim Mudd, if you could look at the
executive summary, it -- and it says, addition to directional bore as a
method of underground installation. This fits in page eight,
paragraph what?
I think we have public speakers, so why don't I go to my --
MR. RILEY: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- next question, and then you can
answer that later on.
MR. RILEY: Okay, yes.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Second page, it says, item number
two, upgrading the dates --
MR. RILEY: Can I go back and answer that questions?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Sure, thank you.
MR. RILEY: I just have to look for it. It's on page 10.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Page 107
MR. RILEY: Yes. If you look at subsection number six, where
it says directional bore, that's in addition to pushing the pipe, open
cutting system, and now we actually officially have the directional
bore, and we are following the Florida Department of
Transportation's guidelines for using this method of installation of
the pipe.
And as I mentioned, the damage to the roadway is a lot less with
directional bore which requires a keyhole compared to a manhole for
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June 10, 2003
open cut with pits and everything else.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: The next one is -- the second one is,
request upgrading the dates of all the guidelines in reference to the
latest edition.
MR. RILEY: That's all over the handbook and the ordinance.
Anywhere we are referring to Florida Department of Transportation
requirements, the MUTCDs, any other references and specifications
that we refer to, because as you -- as you were reading the opening
for the item, this has been updated in '88, it's been updated in '83, in
'93, and now 2003. And every time, all these specifications are also
revised in their agencies. So this is making sure that we're using the
latest editions of all these specifications and guidelines, the books
that we go by.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: The guidelines of the handbook,
does government have to apply to the handbook? Does the county
have to apply to it? Are we asking --
MR. RILEY: All the specs that I was naming?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: The whole handbook. We're asking
the public to -- under the permit in the handbook, is this the
guideline? Does government have to --
MR. RILEY: Any work -- any work in Collier County
right-of-way needs to be governed by this handbook, yes. That's, in
essence, what ordinance 93-64 is. 93-64 is the guidelines and
specifications for work in Collier County right-of-way. So the
answer would be yes.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay, public utilities and wastewater
have to abide by these guidelines and actually get a permit?
MR. RILEY: That's very true, yes, and they do.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. And that's with all
maintenance within the right-of-way?
MR. RILEY: No. Maintenance -- we only ask for maintenance
to have a record of what they're doing. They don't have to pay any
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June 10, 2003
permit fees, and we just want a record of what they are maintaining
in the right-of-way, that's all. There's no fee. It's just a
recordkeeping.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Does this pertain to
landscaping, too?
MR. RILEY: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. So when I cut the county's
property in front of my house, what do I need to do?
MR. RILEY: Is that in the right-of-way --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Sure.
MR. RILEY: -- or in a private property?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: It's in the right-of-way.
MR. RILEY: In the right-of-way you have to get a permit. It's
a residential permit.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay.
MR. RILEY: To install a drainage pipe, for example, in front of
your house.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: No, cutting the lawn.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: No, cutting the lawn, it's a
maintenance.
MR. RILEY: No, because the ordinance says the maintenance
is in front of your house, even if it's in the county right-of-way. It's
the responsibility of the homeowner and, no, you don't need a permit
for that.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Where's that at in the handbook? I
didn't see that. Of course, I didn't get a chance to read this --
MR. RILEY: It doesn't state it specifically, that the
maintenance of the right-of way in the front of your home is the
responsibility of your homeowner. Where it is word by word right
this minute, I wish I was that smart. I would be working for NASA, I
guess, if I was that brilliant. I just don't know where it is right now.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I wish I was that smart too, after
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receiving this document late yesterday, being able to read this whole
MR. RILEY: And I personally apologize for that. I should
have given you this document a long time ago. I do apologize for
that.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, would you like to continue this
item for the next --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I think that's great, but we have some
public speakers that's been here all day, and I think they deserve to --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Be heard.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- be heard.
So, Ms. Filson?
MS. FILSON: The first public speaker is Grover Whidden. He
will be followed by Buddy Brunker.
MR. WHIDDEN: Good afternoon. Good to be with you today.
For the record, my name is Grover Whidden, regional external
affairs manager for Florida Power and Light Company.
Speaking for our company, and I think the other utilities here
will also agree with this, we, in principle, are certainly supportive of
the ordinance before you.
Reading the purpose of this ordinance, certainly we have no
disagreement with the general purpose of the ordinance; however, we
do have some differences regarding some of the particular
provisions. And principally, those are contained in section 4, entitled
permits.
One of the principal concerns we have is that in various
subsections of section 4, in section 4E and 4G, subparagraph 4,
there's references made to the standards of how permits will be
looked at when they're reviewed and the standards which permits will
be judged and determined to be denied in cases. And most of those
standards we don't have any problem with, with one very explicit
exception, and that is with the provision that we be in compliance
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with the local development code.
Under Florida laws -- and I'm not an attorney. But under
Florida growth management laws, utilities are explicitly excluded
from local development code, and yet in both of those sections I just
referenced, that is used as a standard.
And I can tell you that none of the utilities have ever looked at
your Land Development Code regarding installation of facilities in
road rights-of-way. And if it's your intention to bring us under that, I
think we're going to have a great deal of difficulty with it.
The other thing is, I question whether or not the commission
really wants to take on that responsibility because there's just a lot of
provisions in the Land Development Code which would, I think, be a
problem for the commission as well as the county staff.
Secondly, the other problem, general problem that we have, I
guess, is one of basic intent having to do with the notice provision
whereby the utilities will be required to notice property owners
within 300 feet of any facilities that are going to be installed in the
right-of-way.
Quite frankly, we don't understand the intent of why that needs
to be the case, and more importantly, we're concerned that, you
know, under what circumstances where we do provide notice where
there is concern in the neighborhood and so forth, we might be
denied installation, denied permit in the right-of-way.
Certainly, I mean, to be very clear about this, I think all the
utilities recognize in today's world, there is an increasing need on our
part to communicate with customers and landowners in the area
regarding installation of our facilities.
And I know our company, speaking very explicitly, have
recently enacted new procedures whereby we're doing much more
dialogue with neighbors and even having open house type activities
to provide neighborhoods information about the installation of our
facilities.
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So we recognize that responsibility, but quite frankly, just to
provide this kind of brute force fix requiring notice to all property
owners within 300 feet, we don't think that's really going to solve the
problem that you're attacking, so that's pretty much our comments.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: What brought forth this
amendment in the codes here?
MR. RILEY: As far as notification for --
COMMISSIONER HALAS:
MR. RILEY: -- residents?
COMMISSIONER HALAS:
Yes.
Three hundred feet in regards to
FPL or any other utility that could be --
MR. RILEY: We were in the process of revising the ordinance,
and we were directed to add that to the language as far as
notification.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Is this because there were -- of
prior problems?
MR. KANT: Yes, Commissioner. There was an FPL line that
was going down across 91 st Street, and that was going to be an aerial
line, and that created some concern amongst some of the residents. I
think the final resolution, it was going to go underground. There was
a collection of cost and everything.
The biggest issue was that many people didn't realize that that
was going to be an aerial line until they saw the poles being stacked
up there. And so at one point, when the board was going through
that process, they directed the county manager to try to look for a
way to try to keep that type of situation from happening again. And
our direction was then to, if we -- since we were in the process of
revising this, to add that, if we could, to this ordinance.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: So that's to protect the citizens of
the county--
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June 10, 2003
MR. KANT: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: -- basically to let -- to let them
realize what's going to happen in their neighborhood? MR. KANT: Yes, sir.
MR. RILEY: Well, if I may explain here, the intent of this
revision is not for every single permit for the utilities to go through
that process. That wasn't the intent at all.
It has to be used-- some common sense needs to be used here.
If you're going to put a 93-foot long pole in front of somebody's
house, we thought it would be a good idea, before they install that
pole, that they go and notify the resident so I don't get all the flack
after they do it. That was the intent.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: You're not the only one that gets
the flack.
MR. RILEY: Now, if they come here and apply for a permit
and the permit is, put a two-inch line under the roadway, we're not
going to bother with the notification. Needs to be some common
sense here, used on this intended revision, so that's why we put it
there.
MR. WHIDDEN: If I might just respond to that. First of all,
going back to the 91 st Street situation, the adjacent property owners
all were notified in that situation. We were concerned about the trees
along 91st, and the -- you know, the entire neighborhoods were not
notified, but certainly the adjacent property owners. That's how folks
got notice.
So if one is thinking that this is the countermeasure that will fix
that kind of situation, it certainly will not fix that kind of situation.
The other comment here is, although the staff-- and I think
they're very sincere in saying that, you know, they certainly want us
to apply judgment, put yourself in our position. How do we know--
you know, it just says, you know, any installation of any facilities in
the right-of-way. How in the world do our engineers know-- yes, I
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mean, we do have judgment and we'll exercise it, but that judgment
may or may not be the same as the county's. And I just think, you
know, that needs to be much better defined.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I don't know if this is quite in
the same lines, but did you give notice when you planned your
substation on Wilson Boulevard? Was notice sent out to the
surrounding property owners?
MR. WHIDDEN: Yes. As a part -- actually a substation now,
because it does involve site development and construction of a
building and everything, although the electrical facilities do not come
under the local Land Development Code, the development of the site
does. And so like any other Land Development Code or
development order, we did provide notice to all the property owners
associated with that. And even prior to that, I'll tell you, even before
we went to pull our permits, we also had a lot of communications
with the neighborhoods out -- the neighbors out in that area.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I think the question that Mr.
Whidden raised -- and this is for our legal department -- is he's
saying that under state statutes, they cannot be regulated by local
government.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: That's true.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: So we need to verify that when we
bring this back to give the commissioners some advice.
MR. WHIDDEN: Now, to be very clear now, I want to make
sure we understand that, because we're not saying we cannot be
regulated by local government. Clearly the county has the right to
regulate the installation of the facilities, the utility facilities in the
road rights-of-way, but what we are saying is that we do not believe
we come under all the regulation associated with the Land
Development Code, which is being cited as one of the standards here.
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MR. MANALICH: Now, that may not be a problem as written
in that if we confirm the authority that he's mentioned, these are the
standards that apply to everyone. And if as a matter of other
superseding law this does not apply, then it just won't be applied to
them. So I'm not sure that we actually need to change anything.
MR. KANT: That's correct. This is -- these standards have
been mentioned in every one of the prior ordinances as well, so the
whole point here was that we weren't breaking new ground. We
were merely trying to update this ordinance into current standard.
MR. MANALICH: Mr. Whidden, were you looking for-- I'm
sorry, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Might as well fix it while it's open.
MR. MANALICH: Yeah. I was just asking, was he looking for
specific language of exclusion, is that -- or are you comfortable with
us simply checking the authority that you've cited, and if, in fact, we
confirm it, then simply as a matter of administrative application, the
language could stay the same but you would not be subjected to that?
MR. WHIDDEN: Yeah, that's really -- I mean, we just don't
want to be subjected to it, don't think we should be. So I mean -- you
know, the cleanest thing, I think, for the -- for the utilities is that if
we're not subject to it, then, you know, why should it be in there.
But certainly if you want to just check the law and exclude it by
administrative action, that's fine too.
MR. MANALICH: Now, I'm not aware of any prohibition,
however, on the notice requirement, any legal prohibition on
requiring them -- unless you disagree with me -- to provide the
notice. I think you're saying you think it might be overkill on this,
but I'm not aware of any prohibition on that requirement.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. I was just wondering, do they
also have to communicate with the county? I understand that they --
the need to communicate with the people in your-- in the vicinity,
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but do you have to communicate with the county before you move
forward?
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, that's what the permit's for.
They've got to come and apply in order to get in that right-of-way in
order to do the work, so they are, based on their permit application,
notifying the county --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, okay.
MR. MUDD: -- of what their intention is.
MR. WHIDDEN: Yeah. And certainly on larger projects, it's
our -- this is of the changes in our procedures. Although we have,
you know, in certainly very high profile projects such as
transmissions lines, we've notified you in the past as county
commissioners. But our intent is to have a lot more communications,
you know, not only with the customers but with -- you know, with
county elected officials also.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Thank you.
Next speaker?
MS. FILSON: Next speaker is Buddy Brunker, and he will be
followed by Sergio Abreu.
MR. BRUNKER: I'm Buddy Brunker. I'm public affairs
manager with Sprint here in town. I am at 3400 Radio Road, Suite
107.
Our concerns are basically the same as Grover Whidden and
Florida Power and Light's in that we feel that the 300-feet
notification needs a little bit more clarification, and we do have some
concerns with the Land Development Code issue.
But we're not impacted as much as Grover would be or Florida
Power and Light in that most of our facilities are underground, so --
but we do have a concern with the notification and need some
clarification on it, on how we do that, who needs to be notified, under
what circumstances, that type of thing.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: So it sounds like it's an opportunity
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for our staff to work with you to --
MR. BRUNKER: Oh, we'd love to work with them.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- communicate.
MR. BRUNKER: Sure. Love to do that.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
MR. BRUNKER: Thank you.
MS. FILSON: The final speaker is Sergio Abreu.
MR. ABREU: Good afternoon. For the record, my name is
Sergio Abreu. I'm with Teco Peoples Gas. Our address is 5901
Enterprise Parkway in Fort Myers.
And in the interest of time, I'm here just to express our support
of the position that the other utilities have taken, even though our
facilities are also primarily underground -- as a matter of fact,
entirely underground by requirement of the Florida Public Service
Commission-- we do not oppose the notice provisions that are being
proposed, we simply need to work to clarify so that we're clear what
requirements we need to meet in order to make sure that our permits
are not withheld.
We want to make sure that the business side of what we're
trying to accomplish here flows smoothly, and we want to make sure
we understand what those requirements are that we're being asked to
meet, as well as making sure that within those requirements, there are
things that the county is requiring of us, that they have the authority
to be able to -- to require us to meet including the Land Development
Code, so that is our comments on the issue. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
Mr. Riley?
MR. RILEY: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I see in the ordinance that we're
asked to pass that -- states that community development is the
enforcement of the ordinance in the handbook through code
enforcement. Does community development know that they're going
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to be the enforcement of this ordinance?
MR. RILEY: The code enforcement, you mean -- the code
enforcement, yes.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay.
MR. RILEY: They have been the enforcer.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. So that's nothing new? I --
MR. RILEY: Not really. The only thing new there for
community development is that the deviations from specifications,
the county engineer had the power to make some deviations from the
guidelines. That power is now removed from community
development services to transportation because all the permitting is
done in transportation. It used to be in community development
since last year, April 1 st.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay.
MR. RILEY: But the enforcement has always been with the
code enforcement, yes.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: While I see there's opportunities, and
if the commissioners want to give direction to work with the utility
companies to put together a good document, my concern -- and I'll
share it right now is -- that I think we're getting further and further of
(sic) growing government, and, you know, we're asking to double the
fees for the permit.
And I just see opportunities for government to grow in an
enforcement of this permit. And is this really what we want to do?
Is it public health, safety, and welfare?
So what's the will of the board? You want to continue this
item? Want to scratch this item? Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. I, for one, feel that we
have to make sure we not only cover our costs, but due process is
served, especially as far as the consumer is concerned out there.
Also, you know, I want to make sure that we don't get into
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another one of these situations with transmission lines or telephone --
you know, we've lost a lot of our control due to the state legislative
body and what they've given away in the past. There's very few
controls we do have.
There may be a time we want to negotiate with Sprint for
possibly special rates for Immokalee or Everglades City, or we may
wish to meet with our people from -- the cable vision people --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: District 3 --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- to make sure that they
provide services in a like manner to some of our rural areas that don't
have it at this point in time. This might give us a little bit of leverage
to work with, and I'm all for putting this through and keeping it about
-- the way it is now. We come back and visit it later after we get
some more twerking (sic). So I make a motion for approval.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'm sorry. I need to --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- finish up. Is there a second?
There's a second by Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'd like to know, do you have
statistics to see -- or to let us know as a board exactly how many
complaints we've had from citizens on some of these proposed
amendments that we want to make? Because obviously it had to be
something that was driving this. And I'd just like to know what type
of-- what we're looking at here statistic wise, because I think that's
got to be part of the equation also for the answer.
MR. RILEY: Are you talking specifically about the 91st?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Any situation similar to 91st or
any situation similar to putting gas pipes down in people's
neighborhoods or underground Sprint lines. Has there been -- has
there been an increase in the amount of complaints?
MR. RILEY: I don't know about increase because I've only
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been doing this for about a year and couple of months. But on a
regular basis, yes, we get complaints.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: What was the driving force to
address this?
MR. RILEY: The latest fiasco we had on 91st and about --
couple inches of emails and telephone calls and memorandums. That
was the driving force behind 91 st.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
MR. KANT: Excuse me, Commissioner. To further answer
your question, the driving force is that we review our ordinance that
we work under on a regular basis. This particular ordinance
obviously with a date of-- with a number of 93 dash something, is
going on 10 years old.
And about a year ago, as we were looking at a number of
different ordinances and the different regulations that we work under,
we felt that it was appropriate to review this, and it's taken a while
because we've gone through a lot of reviews internally and through
Development Services Advisory Committee, Productivity
Committee, that type of thing.
So that's what's driving the overall revision of this ordinance.
The ordinance itself, in one form or another has been around since
the late '70s, I believe. But this particular item, as Mitch points out,
was really -- as I said earlier, the impetus was 91st Street line.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. So basically all we're
doing is just redressing a lot of the things that were already put in
place years back? We're not actually increasing anything, we're just
tightening up the standards; is that correct?
MR. RILEY: That's correct. Making it better, in my opinion.
For example, if I may explain. The drainage situation.
Everybody knows in Collier County we have severe drainage
problems in many of the neighborhood areas. The minimum size of
pipe right now by the 93-64 is 12 inches in diameter. With this
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ordinance, the minimum size is going to 15 inches, and that's going
to improve the drainage overall, all over the county, quite a bit.
The open/cut system. Right now, the ordinance allows lime
rock compaction -- and I don't want to get into too many details.
With this ordinance, we are obligating the contractor to use flowable
fill, which gets rid of all the sediments in the roadway. So this is a
great modification to something that's currently existing.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Safety and welfare; we're
addressing those issues? MR. RILEY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: You know, I agree, there are good
things in this ordinance --
MR. RILEY: Thank you
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- but I don't agree that it's a good
ordinance. And I ask you, on the people in Naples Park, 91 st, how
did they know that electric line was going across there? Did the --
did transportation notify them?
MR. RILEY: I have no idea how they found out. The way I
found out that they knew was through Mr. Mudd's and Commissioner
Coyle's office, because I didn't know anything about it myself.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Let's apply common sense
here. I'm sure that Florida Power and Light notified those people that
that line was going there. Well, who did?
MR. RILEY: I don't know that.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Coletta did.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I did, all by myself. No, not
really. But I do want to point out the fact that in Golden Gate Estates
we're a little bit behind the eightball in the fact that when the line was
reconfigured, it all of a sudden came right down through some
important neighborhoods in that area. And that caught everybody by
surprise, and the results of that was that we formed a global
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organization for all of District 5 to meet that one situation. It's grown
into something else.
But the thing was, is that, with a little more due notification, if
there was a little bit better process out there other than just a little
short notice in there that there's lines coming to Collier County,
possibly these people might not have been so upset and would be
able to respond in a more -- a timely fashion than what they had to
do. It's a mad rush now to try to meet it, but we're a little bit late and
behind the deadline on it. So that's one of the reasons why I'm
supporting it. There's been too many complaints -- MR. RILEY: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- about this thing happening.
We went through the same thing with the city and with the schools,
remember, where they were going in and putting schools wherever
they wanted to. Then the state came out with an edict that said that
they have to come through the regular process where they have to go
out and advertise the meetings. It's all due process. That's what we
are. That's what government is. It's not big government. It's good
government. And that's our responsibility, to make sure the public is
aware of what's happening.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Just throw a little fertilize on it, it
will grow.
Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. I think the intent of the
proposed ordinance is good, but we've seen that there are some holes.
There's even some legal question as to applicability and
enforceability.
I think it would be appropriate to express our interest in
approving this, but to delay the final approval until you've worked
out those final details and gotten some input from the county attorney
about the applicability and enforceability of some of these
provisions.
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It's not a big job, it's just closing a couple of holes that can result
in confusion. And I think it's better to have it completed at the time
we approve it rather than wait -- rather than approving it now, then
waiting to go back and modify it later.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I do resent the last remarks,
Commissioner Henning. It was really out of character for you.
But going back to this, I got a motion, we've got a second on the
floor.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Tell me -- tell me what I said that
offended you.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Throw a little bit of fertilizer
on it and it will grow, as far as my statement went. That was
offensive.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: It wasn't your statement. I'm talking
about government. You throw fertilizer on it, it will grow. It wasn't
towards your statement. It was just in general.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: It's just how it fell into place.
If that was the case, then I accept your interpretations, and I'm
willing to go on.
But I'd like to call the question.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. I'll just make one more -- one
further comment. I think this is important that we're -- that we have
this communication online. I agree with Commissioner Coyle, that
although this is a good amendment, as you've put it together, there
are a few little fine points that need discussing, and so I would like to
see us just finish those few points before we move further on it.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: There's a motion on the floor.
Commissioner Coletta called it.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. I withdraw the motion
because Commissioner Fiala withdrew her second basically.
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June 10, 2003
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yep.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: But, however, I do want to
mention the fact that we're talking about big industry here. I want to
make sure that we don't do something that waters down our ability to
be able to get some sort of control for the public over these utilities.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, I think this is exactly what
this is all about.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, in that case, I withdraw
my motion and--
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And I would like to make a
motion to instruct the staff to resolve these final minor details that we
have discussed here today and bring back a recommendation to us at
the next possible meeting. And just as a point of clarification, it
would be my intent to approve it at that point in time. So I'm not
interested in trying to delay it or water it down. I just want to get --
close the loopholes --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yep.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- and then let's get on with it.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'll second that motion.
MR. RILEY: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion by Commissioner Coyle,
second by Commissioner Fiala.
Any discussion on the motion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: All in favor of the motion, signify by
saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Opposed?
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(No response.)
MR. MANALICH: Commissioner--
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion carries, 5-0.
MR. MANALICH: --just for clarification then. The ordinance
advertisement is continued, to be brought back, the ordinance on a
date certain, I believe, of June -- MR. MUDD: 24th.
MR. MANALICH: -- 24th.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Is that -- was your intent of the
motion --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I said at the next practical date,
and if that's the 24th, that's fine.
MR. MANALICH: Yeah. So that's still in the time frame; we
can just continue the advertisement for that.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Next item is 9(A), appoint
members to the revenue commission.
MR. KANT: Thank you, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Can I just add one last little thing.
I just want to make sure that the way they tighten this up is, so that
residents know when there are going to be lines installed right there,
we want to clear that up. Thank you.
MR. MUDD: We're not going to lose that, Commissioner.
Item #9A
RESOLUTION 2003-213 APPOINTMENT OF MEMBERS TO
THE REVENUE COMMISSION AS CONTAINED IN THE
F, XF, CI ~TIVE SI IMMARY-ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Next item is 9(A), appoint members
to the revenue commission.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve. Do we have
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to go down each one of them?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You know, I had a question about
one here.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: There's a motion, Commissioner
Fiala, just --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, okay. I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: There's a motion on the floor to
approve. Is there a second?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Second.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Second by Commissioner Halas.
Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. It doesn't say in here
anyplace that we can't have a Lee County person, right? It's okay
that -- they didn't write yes in there, they wrote Lee. And I just
wanted to --
MS. FILSON: That's because he's from Lee County. And
normally when we let represent -- or organizations submit
representatives to represent them --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes.
MS. FILSON: -- sometimes they are from out of county.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. So it is acceptable that we
can do this? I mean, the City of Marco --
MS. FILSON: Yes. I checked with the county attorney's office,
and it is okay.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: As recommended, and I just want
to make sure we did that all legally.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Any other questions?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING:
saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS:
COMMISSIONER FIALA:
All in favor of the motion, signify by
Aye.
Aye.
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June 1 O, 2003
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion carries, 5-0.
Item #9B
RESOLUTION 2003-214 APPOINTING JOHN DOWD, DR.
CHARLES ZINN, AND SCOTT GIRARD TO THE LIVINGSTON
ROAD BEAUTIFICATION MSTU ADVISORY COMMITTEE-
ADOPTED
Next item is appoint members to the Livingston Road
Beautification MSTU Advisory Committee.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Make a motion we appoint John
Down, Charles Zinn, and Scott Girard.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second that motion.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion by Commissioner Coyle,
second by Commissioner Fiala.
All in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion carries, 5-0.
Item #9C
Page 173
June 10, 2003
RESOLUTION 2003-215 APPOINTING SCOTT SALLEY TO THE
COI,IJIF, R COIINTY CITIZF, NS CORPS.-ADOPTF, D
Appoint members to the Collier County Citizen's Corps. There's
only one on here, it's Scott Salley, I believe. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: No, Robert Burhans.
MS. FILSON: Robert Burhans has -- is resigning, and the
sheriff is requesting Scott Salley.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And there's a motion by --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion to approve.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Coyle (sic) --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
COMMISSIONER COYLE:
CHAIRMAN HENNING: --
Fiala.
Second.
Coletta. Second by Commissioner
All in favor -- sorry about that.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: All in favor of the motion, signify by
saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion carries, 5-0.
Item #9D
Page 174
June 10, 2003
APPOINTING COMMISSIONER FIALA, COMMISSIONER
HALAS, AND COMMISSIONER COLETTA AS REGULAR
VALUE ADJUSTMENT BOARD MEMBERS AND
COMMISSIONERS COYLE AND HENNING AS ALTERNATE
MEMBERS (VAB TENTATIVE DATES OF OCTOBER 7, 8, AND
13. 2003~- APPROVF. D
Appoint commissioners to the Value Adjustment Board and set
a tentative date for hearings.
MS. FILSON: And Commissioner Henning, on this issue,
besides making the appointments, there have been a lot of changes,
and you have to actually hire special masters. And I believe Ellen
Chadwell from the county attorney's office is going to explain that to
you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Great. Is she here?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes, but she didn't know she was
going to explain it.
MS. CHADWELL: Good afternoon, Commissioners.
Sue is correct, there was some legislation that was passed in
2002, I believe, that took effect January 1, 2003. We are going to --
the Value Adjustment Board will have to hold an organizational
meeting before you meet in October.
At that organizational meeting, it is -- we'll have to establish
procedures to basically exchange exhibits or evidence lists between
the petitioner and the property appraiser's offices. We'll have to
establish some general procedures for the conduct of the hearings. I
would envision that that's largely modeling off of the statutory
procedures. There's nothing that we need to probably go into detail
about for that.
But you will also have to appoint some special masters to hear --
basically do your job as a Value Adjustment Board. They can't make
a final determination, but they will be making a recommendation to
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June 10, 2003
the Value Adjustment Board as to questions on exemptions, is the
property or the petitioner entitled to a homestead exemption,
classification.
If you-all recall in some of your experiences over the past few
years, sometimes you get a petition on whether their properties
should be classified as agricultural, and if they've been denied that,
they may petition that.
Those two types of challenges are going to be heard by a special
master who, according to the statute, has to be an attorney. Then you
have challenges on the tax assessment issue on real estate. And
according to the statute, you have to appoint a special master who is
a licensed real estate appraiser.
As far as the tangible personal property issues that -- petitions
that you sometimes hear as a Value Adjustment Board, you'll need to
appoint, again, a special master who is schooled and practiced in the
appraisal of personal properties.
So the law contemplates that we pick people who are schooled
in those areas to assist in hearing those petitions, make findings of
fact, and then make a recommendation to the Value Adjustment
Board, which will then be heard in your typical October hearings.
What I would ask, because we do -- the time frame is so short
from the -- I think we expect the trim notices to go out mid August,
hopefully mid August, you have 60 days within which to ultimately
hold the VAB meetings. There's a 125-day period within which a
person has to file their petition after they receive their notice or their
appeal, so to speak, and then we have to notice the hearing 20 days in
advance, so we have to hold an organizational meeting by the Value
Adjustment Board to set forth the procedures and appoint the special
masters no later than August.
Sue thought maybe end of July, and that to me is a great idea.
But, again, we'll have to coordinate with the other two school board
members and alternates to set up that meeting.
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June 10, 2003
I would ask that before you -- that you consider that when you
decide who's going to be appointed on the Value Adjustment Board,
because if anyone has a 30-day out-of-the-country vacation planned,
that might need to be taken into account, so -- the organizational
meeting, we're looking at maybe a couple hours. I don't think that
that would take more than a half a day. Again, it's the coordination
that's going to be difficult.
And the special master hearings will have to be held -- we can't
get started till the last two weeks of September. We'll have two
weeks to hold all those, so it's going to be, boom, you know, days
upon days of hearings. And, of course, there is a fiscal impact to
that. The Value Adjustment Board is going to have to pay for the
cost of the special masters.
But we will be providing a list of those qualified individuals at
the org. meeting, and it will be those members' job to then appoint
those special masters and decide issues relative to compensation and
how you want to notify the public and things of that sort.
But it's nothing that can't be handled and I -- like I said, a half a
day meeting, but we would like that to be done late July or sometime
in August, and I know August is your vacation month so --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: It is?
MS. FILSON: I thought maybe if the meeting didn't run over
the 29th to the 30th, maybe there would be time on the 30th to have
that meeting when you had all planned to be here.
MS. CHADWELL: And I did talk to the school board person,
and they have a meeting on the 24th. Evidently they usually take the
month of July for their, kind of, break period. They're meeting on
the 24th, so I -- and then they have their two meetings in August. So
they'll be pretty much back to business, I think, from July 24th
forward. So that -- it's feasible that we could plan something the end
of July.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Halas -- or I'm sorry.
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June 1 O, 2003
Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thanks. Well, I've been on the last
couple years, and I know it's not anything we usually jump at, but I
don't mind volunteering again to do that. If you'd like me to do that,
I will be here in October, and, of course, the 29th and 30th of July, so
I'll throw my name in the hat if you'd like.
MS. FILSON: Actually, I need three members, two alternates.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I probably didn't sound real
enthusiastic, but I'll do it.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I'll volunteer as one of the
alternates.
MS. FILSON: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Yeah, I will too.
Commissioner Coletta, you had something? You had your hand
up?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No, I've been holding it real
close to the table.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: It's just the idea, I guess, this --
this is -- it's coming back, like you said earlier, that we put a little
fertilizer on it, and it grows, right? I guess this is one case where --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Sure.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: These are new mandates; is that
correct, compared--
MS. CHADWELL: But remember, it will make the Value
Adjustment Board's job a lot easier because most of the matters are
going to be heard by the special masters, and you'll simply be
approving a recommendation or denying a recommendation.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Now, what's the cost going to --
what's the cost going to -- are we going to incur?
MS. CHADWELL: In checking with the Department of
Revenue -- well, I think you probably need one special master for the
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June 10, 2003
exemptions. And looking back last year, we had 100 petitions that
went forward, and I think about 80 of those were real estate, so I
think you need two or three real estate special masters. According to
the Department of Revenue, they run from $65 an hour to $200 an
hour in different -- across the state on their polling, so --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'd like to volunteer
Commissioner Halas to be one of the regulars.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Thanks a lot. I'll volunteer you,
too, Coletta.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Well --
MS. CHADWELL: It's a wonderful experience.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. I'll do it if you do it.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: That's a question.
MS. FILSON: We have -- we have coordinated the dates of
Tuesday, October 7th; Wednesday, October 8th; and Monday,
October 13th, for the Value Adjustment Board. But I'm thinking that
you may only have to use one of those days, and the special masters
may use the others.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay.
MS. FILSON: And so I have Commissioner Fiala, Halas, and
Coletta as members, Commissioner Coyle and Henning as alternates,
correct?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: This is worse than the army.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: You did say yes, but --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes. I guess I ain't got much
choice.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. I'm not going to be left
out of this.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: No, I think we all have a choice. But
thank you very much.
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June 10, 2003
COMMISSIONER HALAS: You're welcome.
MS. FILSON: I think you may need to take a vote on that.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Entertain a motion.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve the selection.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I second it.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion by Commissioner Coyle,
second by Commissioner Halas.
All in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion carries, 5-0.
MS. FILSON: Thank you.
Item #9E
RENEGOTIATE AND APPROVE A COUNTY ATTORNEY
EMPLOYMENT AGREEMENT WITH COUNTY ATTORNEY
DAVID W. WFJIGF, I,-APPROVFD W/AMFNDMF, NTS
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Next item is recommendation of the
Board of Commissioners, enter into negotiations, approve the county
attorney employment agreement with the county attorney, David
Weigel.
Mr. Weigel.
MR. WEIGEL: Good afternoon, Commissioners. David
Weigel, county attorney.
This is the return of the proposed county attorney contract
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June 1 O, 2003
employment agreement. It's similar in many ways to what was
before you two weeks ago, but the board did indicate that they
wanted some clarification, particularly equal to equal, and also in
regard to the old sick days, pursuant to the old 1996 cap that pertains
to the old employees that were here prior to 1996, which was -- I'm
still one of them.
The agreement was made to look far more closely to the county
manager agreement putting in such additional provisions such as for
suspension. It provides the same kind of annual review, with
provisions for the annual review that the county manager has.
It more specifically -- in fact, my contract never specifically
talked of an action plan or a merit plan. Although I've had one for
the last three or four years, it's been very specific, developed initially
by former Commissioner Carter, so that also comes into official
recognition within the contract.
We've clarified the universal leave, took out a couple words,
such as an additional, referring to the 30-day computation, which is
in there.
In chatting with Jim Mitchell on behalf of the clerk and looking
for clarification in regard to the accumulated sick days of that pre '96,
which has a set valuation -- and by the way, although it's referenced
in this contract, it applies to all employees, contract or noncontract
employees who were there prior to that time.
Part of the discussion we've had, and I would like the board to
entertain, is for ease of administration -- and Jim talked about
administration -- would be the -- just the pay-out of that amount, and
so it's just gone, it's paid now in 2003 dollars and doesn't continue to
harbinger on.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I agree with that.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I do too.
MR. WEIGEL: Thank you. It's, of course, very clear in regards
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June 10, 2003
to the senior management services class. It goes back to 19 -- back to
'98, which, of course, is the intention of my prior 1998 contract.
I want to say that under that prior contract, I've had the -- of
course not only the ability and the obligation to serve this board and
the citizens, but it's been a wonderful process.
I think that we have now a very dynamic and interesting mix of
attorneys, more than ever before, who have been coached and
counseled both through you and through me to be very
solution-oriented, and we hope to continue that process.
Only other thing I would add in regard to the equal to equal is
that the universal leave contemplates bringing over my current
vacation hours that I have, and I am not -- did not write in bringing
over my sick leave hours that I have accumulated since 1996, which
is approximately 600 something as far as that goes.
If I were to do so -- and that would make it identical to Jim
Mudd's contract in the sense that he brought over his sick leave as
well as vacation leave in the universal leave. But if I were to do so, I
must be quite frank, and that would -- that would bring over about
600 hours, which is well over the 360 cap which is written in there,
and you would have an additional payout to me.
Now, that would be a wonderful thing to me, but it's
significantly different from the way employees generally are covered
post 1996, and so I'm not requesting that.
If the board were to entertain a further dot and tiddle to this
agreement, it would be -- and again, I think, consistent with the equal
to equal -- would be to make the senior management service class
back to 1995, which is the time when I became county attorney.
The senior management services class has been available, for
instance, to the chief assistant county attorney for some time. And
under state law, that could have been equivalent for me as well. So I
might ask for that.
If you wish to enter that further, if you have any questions, I'll
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try to respond.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, I do have. First of all, I think
you've really served us well and served us loyally, and I -- and I
appreciate your truthfulness there in trying to help us to understand.
I did have a question, and you're helping me there, under the
insurance, vacation, and sick leave in number D, where it talks about
-- I know you've explained to me a little bit about universal, I agree
that you should be there.
But then I didn't know how that worked out with the sick leave
days accrued between August 2nd and the effective date, and shall
continue to exist, be credited and administered. That isn't the same
as the universal, is it? Did you want to change that around?
MR. WEIGEL: Well, I tell you, as I mentioned, it would be
wonderful if that were converted into universal leave. But then what
you would -- and it would be very easy for the clerk to administer
that way. But it would have an additional cost to the board, which I
don't think you necessarily contemplated, and I have not brought it
forward.
But what that means is the approximately 600 plus hours of
non-used sick leave since 1996 would be calculated into my
universal leave, and I am to be paid for all hours over 360 hours of
universal leave so that upon my departure from county service,
hopefully on slab and not -- but at any rate, upon that departure it
would be -- the idea is not to have to have a large payout at that time,
and that's why the 360 hour cap is there.
So if I'm automatically, in moving my post 1996 sick hours into
universal leave, under the provision of the contract you'd have an
additional payment to make me -- to make to me to bring me below
the 300 -- at or below the 360 hours that is my cap. Beyond that I am
to be paid now so it's not a big payout later.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: So from what you just said, did you
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say continue to -- did you say to eliminate that part that says continue
to exist, be credited and administered? MR. WEIGEL: No.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Because you're going now back
under the universal, is that -- I just wanted to make sure the words
were understandable to me.
MR. WEIGEL: Those words -- I think those word are precise
and correct, because I took out -- there is -- it never said in that
provision, and valued. They have no value other than sick days. If I
were sick, I could use them. After all -- COMMISSIONER FIALA: I see.
MR. WEIGEL: -- I did earn them just as all other employees
did since 1996.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I understand.
MR. WEIGEL: I'm just not trying to create it into a -- call it a
super bonus situation for me.
Again, the other dot and twiddle would be, just if you wanted to
go back to the 1995 senior management services class. No other thought on my part.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: What does that do when you go
back to '95 rather than '96? What does that add, or how does that
help you? I don't understand.
MR. WEIGEL: Okay. Ultimately -- and Jim actually knows
this better than I do, but ultimately upon retirement age -- and I have
almost 18 years with the county as an employee. But upon retirement
age, which comes hopefully not before 62 in the context of
withdrawing against state retirement, if I've been in the senior
management services class a little bit longer, it adds a little bit more
of what the state pays me later on.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh.
MR. WEIGEL: It requires a little more -- a little more, less than
a half percentile, a half-- yeah, less than a half percentile
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June 1 O, 2003
computation, contribution from the county on an annual basis. That
money is paid into the state, then they administer it later to the
employees who are ultimately on retirement.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And you've been serving in that
capacity anyway since '95. I don't have a problem with that at all.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I don't either.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Coyle, do have you
anything?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: No.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Any further discussion,
questions?
MR. MITCHELL: I need a little bit more clarification on the
sick leave issue.
David, you're separating your sick time pre '96 and post '96.
And am I correct in saying that you're going to forego the value of
that -- that post '96 value and accept a payment, the value that was
established for the vacation that was on the books for 19967
MR. WEIGEL: Well, see, not the vacation, but the sick--
MR. MITCHELL: I'm sorry, the sick, yes.
MR. WEIGEL: -- days. The reason being, as we've gone and
looked through the HR policy, which was put in place in '96 and still
exists today, is that upon a long-term employee's retirement, the
county, in administering the payout of accrued but unused sick leave,
will look at those sick hours accumulated prior to August 8th of 1996
and look at the employee's sick hours that are accrued after 1996,
apply the computation which is there for me, in this case 35 percent
value of those hours at my '96 salary, which comes to around
$12,000, and then compare the additional 600 hours which may be
added to, with good health, at the time of leaving the county, the
second group of hours. Those post 1996 hours will be valued at
some percentage based upon my time of being here, which is a lot
longer than the 10 years back in 1996, at my current salary. And so
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June 1 O, 2003
if-- the formula says that I'll be paid the lesser of either one of those
from a value standpoint, so I can see the writing on the wall pretty
much, is I'm going to be paid for those early sick hours that were
accumulated pre '96 --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Exactly right.
MR. WEIGEL: -- because by virtue of higher salary and
computation of hours, the second tier of hours, from '96 till now or in
the future, is going to be worth more, and the county under its policy
wouldn't be paying for that anyway.
MR. MITCHELL: So am I correct in saying you're going to
extinguish your sick balance for the value of $12,877.16?
MR. WEIGEL: The pre '96 hours.
MR. MITCHELL: The pre '96 hours.
MR. WEIGEL: You know, to August 8th.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Taking cash payment out right
now. Is that what you're saying? You're taking a cash payment out
as of now?
MR. WEIGEL: Yes. Now, this wasn't my idea, but I thought it
sounded fine for ease of administration.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Say that again.
MR. WEIGEL: Well, I said, this idea didn't initiate with me,
but the fact that it was suggested as an option for ease of
administration, it sounded fine to me and it removed it from being an
issue of administration in the future.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And I think that's where the board
wants to go. I see those indications. So entertain a motion at this
time.
COMMISSIONER HALAS:
MR. MITCHELL: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER HALAS:
COMMISSIONER FIALA:
Are you satisfied with that?
Okay.
Okay. Then I'd like to make a
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June 1 O, 2003
motion that we approve.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: With the amendments?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Do I need to -- would you like me
to read this so that we have that in the record?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Approve with the amendments
discussed by County Attorney David Weigel and the Board of
Commissioners.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, thanks. That's the motion I
want to make.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: There's a motion by Commissioner
Fiala, second by Commissioner Halas.
All in favor of the motion--
COMMISSIONER FIALA: With amendments.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: With amendments.
All in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion carries.
We've got one more --
MR. WEIGEL: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
MR. WEIGEL: And Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, aside from
my gratitude, I want to mention that this next week I'll be assuming
the presidency of the Florida Association of County Attorneys, which
works very close with the Florida Association of Counties.
I think that both from that standpoint, of our meeting, us as a
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June 1 O, 2003
county operating in that arena, and some plans that we have for the
office, we'll continue to represent you well. Most recently, we've, as
an office, have worked very hard on very difficult litigation, daunting
issues, with, I think, wonderful results, and we're going to endeavor
to continue in that fine vein. Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: David, you have worked hard for
us. Your whole team has come together, and whenever we need any
advice or guidance, you've always been there, and this is our way of
thanking you, too.
MR. WEIGEL: Thank you.
Item # 1 OB
RESOLUTION 2003-216 APPROVING COLLIER COUNTY'S
PARTICIPATION IN THE FLORIDA TAX AMNESTY
PROGRAM JULY 1 THROUGH OCTOBER 31, 2003 COVERING
IJOCAI~ OPTION TOI ~RIST DF, VF, IJOPMF, NT TAXES-ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Before we take a break, there's just
one small item here, 10(B), approve the Collier County participation
of Florida Tax Amnesty Program, July 1 through October 31st, '03,
to cover option -- local option tourist tax development. This --
MR. MUDD: This item -- this item came to us by the Florida
legislature, gave us a short wind order to make ourselves availed to a
particular program. What it basically does for the next four months,
it lets people come and pay their tourist taxes without threat of
prosecution.
And we thought it would be prudent if we made -- if we availed
ourselves in this county of this program in order to let people who
forgot to pay their tax come forward and do that as honest, dedicated
tax paying citizens of Collier County, and we need an approval to do
that, and then I will contact the Tallahassee office and tell them that
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June 1 O, 2003
the program is intact in Collier County based on your approvals.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And the tax collector supports this
item, so I'll make a motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Fiala?
can
COMMISSIONER FIALA:
COMMISSIONER COYLE:
Yes. First I'll second it so that we
Second.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Coyle grabbed that.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, did he? Okay, great.
I had two questions. Number one, when we tell people they
have the opportunity to --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Either pay up or go to jail.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- to have no penalties or whatever,
number one, how do we notify all of those that have never paid? I
mean, we've got a lot of people out there that we don't collect from at
all, and I'm sure that we --
MR. MUDD: Newspaper.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- I'm sure that with our load right
now, it's been hard for us to track those people down, but they
increase all the time. And is there a way for us to tell those people
who have rented for five months and three days that they owe a
tourist development tax or a bed tax, and the second thing I wanted to
know while I've got you up there is, how do we enforce that?
MR. WERT: Okay. Jack Wert, tourism director. Your first
question, the tax collector's office does a really good job of sending
out periodic messages. And I don't want to speak for them. They
have a whole program that they've outlined with me of follow-up.
We are also going to do some publicity on this amnesty program
and get some stories in the newspaper and, perhaps, in the broadcast
media as well that this program exists, and -- but it, in fact, is a very
short window between July and October for them to sign up and
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June 10, 2003
begin to pay the tax.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: But we want to put a lot more
money in your coffers.
MR. WERT: Right, I do, too, this is why I was supportive of
this, that we may be able to find some.
Your second part of the question on the enforcement.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes.
MR. WERT: That also is -- the county tax collector and I have
been talking, and there is a whole program on how they -- they
enforce things as well.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Or we could --
MR. MUDD: Code enforcement.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- spread some government fertilizer
on there to get some --
MR. MUDD: Code enforcement also does it, Commissioner.
And for the record, for everybody out there that's watching, if you
rent out your condo or your apartment for less than a six-month
period of time to the same person, you're supposed to collect bed tax,
and that bed tax is supposed to be turned over to the tax collector of
Collier County, and that's what we're talking about.
If you have a rental property out there and you rent it to a month
-- for a month to your Fred -- to your friend Fred, Matilda, Mildred,
whomever, okay, and then you rent it out another month to
somebody else that's a friend and to another person, you're supposed
to be collecting that bed tax for that month rental, and that tax gets
turned into the tax collector.
The only people that are exempt from that is if you have a
long-term renter in your -- in your particular condo or apartment past
the six-month period of time and they are continually there, and that's
what this exemption is about. If you forgot to pay your bed tax on
your short-term rentals, then you need to turn that in to the tax
collector without threat of prosecution.
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CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Do we have an education program
that's set forth in the county? There may be a lot of people that don't
realize this, that on their own, go out there and rent their properties,
and how do we -- and first of all, how do we educate them, and
secondly, if there are individuals that are doing this, then how are we
going to, you know, enforce the law?
MR. MUDD: We'll get with the tax collector and see what
things that he would like to do as far as education and -- because
you're at the end of the tax collector's business at this particular time.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You can hear us encouraging
tightening of those.
MR. WERT: We hear.
CHAIRMAN HENNING:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING:
motion, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING:
Any more discussion on this item?
Seeing none, all in favor of the
Opposed?
Motion carries, 5-0.
We're -- made arrangements with the Clerk of Court and the
court reporter that the court -- give the court reporter a break every
hour and a half, and our court reporter's in -- expecting, so even more
of a reason to take a break, but we want to get to the issues of Naples
Park. So let's take an eight-minute break. (A recess was taken.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Would everybody take your seats,
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June 10, 2003
please.
Item # 10E
THE DEFERRAL OF A TDC CATEGORY "A" GRANT
APPLICATION FOR THE MAINTENANCE PLACEMENT OF
SAND ON HIDEAWAY BEACH IN THE AMOUNT OF $600,000-
APPROVED
Next item is 10(E).
MR. MUDD: Ladies and gentlemen, could you please take your
seats.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Next item is 10(E), to approve the
deferral of TDC fund, grant A applications for maintenance of--
replacement of sand on Hideaway Beach in the amount of 600,000.
Commissioners, the TDC board took this up, and they
recommend to defer this until the CAC and the TDC bring up some
language for beach access.
After the TDC did vote on that, it was our understanding that
this might jeopardize our permit for Hideaway Beach. So if that is
the case, I would ask the Board of Commissioners to approve the
expenditures so we don't violate the permit.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you, and I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: That wasn't a motion, I -- just a
verification.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, then I'll make the motion.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: So we do not jeopardize our permit
with the FDEP, we approve this $600,000 for Hideaway Beach
T-Groins.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And I'll second that, but I have to
ask --
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June 1 O, 2003
MR. MUDD: It's the sand.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Sand, sand okay. I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I have to have staff verify that if we
don't approve this item and-- we do violate the permit.
MR. HOVELL: For the record, Ron Hovell, coastal projects
manager.
Commissioners, the permit that allowed for the construction of
the temporary T-Groins requires annual monitoring and a certain
maintenance of the beach profile along the sections of Hideaway
Beach where those temporary sandbag T-Groins were constructed.
And from 1996, and maybe even a little before that, every winter,
including this past winter, we've added some amount of sand to
Hideaway Beach under that same permit requirement.
So yes, it's our estimate that we are, again, going to have to add
sand to Hideaway Beach this winter in order to stay in compliance
with the permit.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Thank you.
Commissioner Coyle -- or Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes, thank you. Has anything
changed as far as the access issue goes for Hideaway Beach? MR. HOVELL: Not that I'm aware of.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: So we're going to spend --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No, no, no. That's -- I'm sorry to
interrupt you, but things have changed. And I'm sorry that you don't
know about that, Ron. I'm sorry that you haven't been -- we've --
Hideaway Beach has been working very hard with us, but that
doesn't pertain to this particular one. This has to do with that permit
and we don't want that permit to expire. Isn't that correct?
MR. HOVELL: The temporary construction permit also expires
in March of 2004. And as we move forward, probably this summer,
early fall, and submit a permit application, assuming that gets
approved, to replace the temporary structures with permanent
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June 10, 2003
structures, we would also be asking that the permit be extended until
such time as we're able to place the permanent structures on the
beach.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: May I ask how successful it's been,
by the way, the temporary T-Groins? Have you found that to be a
success -- a successful experiment, with the temporary T-Groins?
MR. HOVELL: I think part of it, you know, is just the
structures themselves. Do they do a job, yes, they do. The second
part is, are they in the right spot. And with the migration of Coconut
Island, it has kind of changed where the right spot to have structures
-- need to go in the future. So, you know, a careful yes, I suppose, is
the answer.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: If I could finish up on where I
was and come back to you.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Sorry.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No, that's quite all right,
Commissioner Fiala. I'm always very interested to hear any breaking
news. What do we not know that we should know or could know, or
is it a big secret?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Do you want me to talk about it a
little bit now? I was going to talk about it on the next item, but I'd be
happy to tell you that Hideaway Beach has taken the initiative to
offer access to their beach. They have property right there that they
can offer from Spinnaker, which is the street going in front of
Hideaway all the way back to the beach.
And by the way -- and, gee, I hate to give this away now, but as
long as you're pushing for it -- and it adjoins empty -- two empty lots
there that we can buy and we can put a parking lot on and bathroom
facilities on, and we'll have everything that we want right there.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Wonderful. There's no
objection.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Everybody's a winner here.
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June 10, 2003
Everybody's a winner.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No objection to this at all.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: We do have some public speakers on
this, and you have the right to waive if you disagree (sic) with the
board's action on this item.
MS. FILSON: Mr. Chairman, my notes indicate that we're
going to hear 10(E) and (F) together, and I have 5 speakers for 10(E)
and five for 10(F).
CHAIRMAN HENNING: The same ones?
MS. FILSON: No, some of them, but not all of them.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. We'll call up the public
speakers.
MS. FILSON:
MR. ARCERI:
together?
Okay. John Arceri.
Are you going to cover 10(E) and 10(F)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: No, we're only doing one at a time.
So if you disagree (sic) with the action that we're about to take --
MR. ARCERI: No, I'd rather waive and go on 10(F).
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
MS. FILSON: Okay. And the next speaker is David Somers.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Waive.
MS. FILSON: Jim Snediker.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Waive.
MS. FILSON: Ruth McCann.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Waive.
MS. FILSON: Bruce Anderson?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Waive. Okay. That's it.
Any further discussion on the motion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Seeing none, all in favor of the
motion, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
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June 10, 2003
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion carries, 5-0.
Item # 1 OF
DEFERRAL OF A TDC CATEGORY "A" GRANT APPLICATION
FOR THE RENOURISHMENT AND REPLACEMENT OF
TEMPORARY T-GROINS ON HIDEAWAY BEACH IN THE
AMOUNT OF $2,300,000-DEFERRED UNTIL CAC, TDC, AND
BCC AGREE ON POLICY AND THEN FUNDS WILL BE
RELEASED. THIS ITEM TO BE BROUGHT BACK ON THE
SEPTF, MBER 23. 2003 AGENDA
Next item is 10(F), formerly known as 16(A)13, approve the
deferral of TDC category A, application for a renourishment and the
replacement of the temporary T-Groins on Hideaway Beach in the
amount of-- I see $2.3 million on the agenda, and the item is four
point --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Five seven seven.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- five seven seven, so which one is
it, County Manager Jim Mudd?
MR. MUDD: It was read in at the beginning part, and this is,
the Coastal Advisory Committee recommended approval of $2.3
million for the structures portion of this grant application at their
meeting on May 8, 2003. The hydraulic fill portion of this project
was recommended for consideration in the following budget year,
and that was the correction to that particular item that was read in
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this morning.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. So the action is not to defer,
it is to fund it, and I'm sure that's what Commissioner Fiala wants to
deliver.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Uh-huh.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And she says yes.
Any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Does our staff want to give the
public a little bit of knowledge of what action we're about to take?
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, this is a -- this is the deferral
action that the staff brought forward based on the TDC. The
previous item that you approved, you approved to not defer the
$600,000 on the budget. Staff's recommendation, based on
information that we know right now is to defer this -- to defer this
item.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: If the placement of the permanent
T-Groins is in March, and from -- I understand that we're going to get
some recommendations from CAC and the Tourist Development
Council in September. So I would ask if, by deferring this until we
have that recommendation, would that jeopardize anything as far as
permits?
MR. HOVELL: Again, for the record, Ron Hovell. Sir, the
currently-approved project is to design and permit the major
renourishment and the replacement of the temporary structures with
permanent structures.
Sort of a second phase of that is the grant application in front of
you, which is to fund the actual construction, so it would be staff's
intent to go ahead and apply for the permit and seek an extension to
the existing temporary structure permit pending both the construction
and funding and permitting of the permanent solution. So, no, I don't
think deferring a decision at this point would impact the overall
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June 1 O, 2003
schedule.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. We have some speakers on
this?
MS. FILSON: We have five speakers, and most of them are the
same ones. John Arceri. He will be followed by David, and I think
it's Jonas.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Somers.
MS. FILSON: Oh, you're right, Somers.
MR. ARCERI: Good afternoon, Commissioners. For the record,
my name is John Arceri, a member of Marco Island City Council,
also a member of the Coastal Advisory Committee.
First I want to say that I totally agree with the goal of increasing
beach access. I do have concern, however, on the process that's
being used to get us there, and I think that process influences some of
the decision-making.
I wanted to go through all of my concerns, a couple of which
were -- staff had recommended as far as funding policy, but I'll skip
that because I do have a handout of my comments to give you after
the meeting. I'll save some time by not going through my concerns
about what staff recommended to you.
I do have some concerns though about what TDC recommended
to you. They recommended exclusion and deferral of only the
beaches near Hideaway, or for the beaches near Hideaway, and that's
the only major renourishment need on Marco Island, without any
new criteria for any rationale for eliminating just that project.
I was also concerned that the chairman of the Coastal Advisory
Committee, who supported the unanimous recommendations of that
committee to fund these projects, then voted against a plan as a
member of the TDC.
I'm concerned that the TDC recommended over $9 million in
Naples funding, all of which is justified and I fully support, even
though some of these areas also have serious access problems that
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make it virtually impossible for tourists and others to get to the
beach.
I'm also concerned that some of the county leaders would write
off prior agreements and commitments, dismiss the fact that the
county, in fact, had designed the present beach access plan and now
require immediate changes that are difficult to make, although we're
trying.
I don't think that this is the process to be used for developing a
beach strategy. The process used must result in an integrated plan
and one that is perceived as due process, as fair, nondiscriminatory,
well thought out, and in the public interest.
The Coastal Advisory Committee developed its
recommendations with much of this in mind and unanimously
approved and submitted a plan to apply resources now to correct the
most seriously eroded beaches in the county.
For the most part, the renourishment of the county's beaches
would be funded in 2004 with a surplus of $1.4 million. With this
maintenance problem behind us, the plan had surpluses in the
subsequent years for use in developing better access in other beach
related projects.
This plan by the CAC should be used as a basis for more a
business-like process in developing a long-term beach access
strategy. And I just wanted to make a recommendation about the
way this could work in four steps.
First, as I mentioned, correct those beaches that have been
identified as needing immediate attention. This can be done within
the funding allocated for 2004, and additional major renourishment is
not required for the subsequent eight years.
Second, identify the specific areas where we need access
improvements and define whether we need expansion in those areas,
property acquisition, or shuttle requirements. This would be
development, in my opinion, by late 2003 and would include input
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from all that are affected by this rather than having state guidelines
force an access design for us.
Third, finalize a future funding criteria based on this final access
plan where we've identified specifically what we need and where.
And I think this could be finalized by early 2004 and provide to all,
those affected and those not, an understanding of the impact of
access on funding.
And then fourth, implement the improved access plan. And I
think here we can utilize funds from the surplus developed from the
CAC plan or other county resources and complete the entire access
plan for the future in 2006.
As I mentioned, the only beach renourishment projects the TDC
did not approve are those associated with the beach adjacent to
Hideaway, and that consisted of the $600,000 sand placement, the
removal of the temporary T-Groins and the $2.3 million installation
of permanent groins in 2004.
The consultants tell us that the temporary groins have proven
their worth, and it's time to make the permanent fix now. They have
been doing the monitoring the last couple of years, they do feel it's
effective, and they do feel we ought to move ahead with the
permanent now, and the CAC unanimously supports that.
The TDC also recommended deferral of another 2.4 million of
final renourishment work in 2005 as part of this project. The CAC
and us agree with that deferral, but not this one on the T-Groins.
Without these urgent 2004 projects, however, the beaches near
Hideaway will continue to disappear, and per our consultants,
erosion will be accelerated on all of the beaches on Marco Island
south of Hideaway without the permanent T-Groins.
This action is not technically sound and not part of any
well-developed rational plan.
I thank you for the time you've given us both here and in
private. We've met with most of you privately. I urge you to
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approve this project of permanent T-Groins for 2004 funding, and
also to direct the staff to begin this planning process I described
above to develop a much-needed beach access plan that makes sense.
And finally, I am personally committed towards working with
the county in a whole bunch of areas. One, I'll be part of a team if
you want me to be part of the team. Second, we are working on a
30-foot -- a 30-foot beach renourishment between Tigertail and
Hideaway to provide access from Tigertail to Hideaway, and that
should come before you, I think, today.
And third, I continue to work with the city council of Marco
Island to get additional access that is still under consideration.
So, again, I thank you for your time, and I will leave a copy of
my official comments for your-- for your use.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Fiala?
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. Could I just ask you one
question, please.
MR. ARCERI: Sure.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And that is, did I understand you
correctly to say that the CAC, when doing their budget, found dollars
to renourish all of these beaches, including these two projects?
MR. ARCERI: That's correct. The entire beach renourishment
of Naples and the beaches of Marco Island--
COMMISSIONER FIALA: All within their budget?
MR. ARCERI: All within their budget, with a surplus of 1.4
million in that budget for 2004.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay.
MR. ARCERI: Now, when you go beyond 2004, that 2005
Hideaway project of 2.5 million, the CAC deferred. We did not
approve that. And I -- we agreed with it. We looked at the fact that
the $600,000 sand placement, the replacement of the temporary
groins to permanent, would do an adequate enough job within the
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budget guidelines that we have. COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you.
MR. ARCERI: Thank you very much, Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner, I think that we all
have seen the spreadsheet on the capital improvements. Thank you very much, sir, for being here.
And there is a problem, and we need to attend to that problem,
and the best way to attend to it is a policy for beach renourishment.
And, folks, let's not mistake what the goal is, the goal is to provide
more access to the beaches in Collier County.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is David Somers, and he will
be followed by Jim Snediker.
MR. SOMERS: Hi. I'm David Somers, general manager at the
Hideaway Beach Club.
We understand that the county commission feels that beach
access is an important ingredient for beach renourishment.
Therefore, in the spirit of cooperation for public access in Collier
County, the Hideaway Board of Directors has agreed to offer an
access point to the Gulf beaches on Hideaway Beach property.
This particular aerial shows part of Tigertail Beach and it also
shows our entrance here at Hideaway Beach. And this would be a
representation of what could be accomplished.
The red line indicates the property line between Hideaway and
Tigertail, and the green could be an access way that the county could
use in order to provide public access to the public beach that's
adjacent to Hideaway.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Mr. Somers, can you point out where
Hideaway is going to donate land for parking?
MR. SOMERS: Well, we don't have any land to donate for
parking.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay.
MR. SOMERS: Okay.
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June 1 O, 2003
COMMISSIONER HALAS: You said that the property
downward from there is county property?
MR. SOMERS: Yeah, this is -- this is all county property here.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And what type of vegetation do
we have in there?
MR. SOMERS: It's a mix. There are some Australian Pines,
there is some mangrove area in here, mangrove fringe. That's why I
said this is an approximate location.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. We can't destroy the
mangroves.
MR. SOMERS: There's also some single-family lots that are
located along Spinnaker that have not been improved yet.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Question?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yes. At this point in time,
would there be a problem with the environmental people as far as
getting through there that you know of?. Has park and recs. had a
chance to walk it, or is this all brand new?
MR. SOMERS: We haven't -- this is all brand new. We haven't
done anything other than try to come up with some solution that we
can work -- continue to work with the county on.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And there's a couple of lots that
are available right about at the -- MR. SOMERS: Entrance.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: -- at that comer, correct?
MR. SOMERS: And there's property available on your Tigertail
Park landing area.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Well, I commend you for
coming up with a plan like this. It's very interesting.
MR. SOMERS: The Coastal Advisory Committee, as said
previously, did vote in favor of the T-Groin project. A reason we felt
it was important, or they felt it was important, was it was -- they felt
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that their responsibility as a committee was to protect all the beaches
in Collier County, and certainly the T-Groins are the first part of that
protection that would not only protect the Hideaway Beaches but also
protect the beaches of Marco.
This was part of an overall project of the major renourishment at
Hideaway Beach. The State of Florida is looking forward to some
solution in this particular area. It is listed in their latest criteria as
one of the most highly eroded areas in the State of Florida. And
certainly, I think we're all looking for a long-term solution, and
permanent T-Groins and sand supplement placement would certainly
give a long-term renourishment fix to this particular area that's been
before you a number of times.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: One more question, if I may?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Sure.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: How soon would this be able to
be turned over if we come to some sort of understanding of
agreement? This is something that's going to be delayed to like 2006
or 2007? This is something we're talking about for the coming
season, right?
MR. SOMERS: The board -- again, I have my board members
traveling right now. So I mean, we've been on the phone this
morning trying to come up with some language to present to you
today, and it's going to take a period of time, and the board is going
to have to work with the membership in order to come up with the
time frame to make this happen. But they're committed -- the board
is committed to making this happen.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And I'm looking for a
reasonable time period, not something that's set off way into the
future years. I mean, I'm not trying to -- I know that this is a
tremendous step forward, it's just that I don't want to get so excited to
find out all of a sudden that this is going to be conditional on the year
2010,2012.
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MR. SOMERS: I don't -- I don't think anyone's looking that far
in the distance. I think we're all looking towards the final full
renourishment with the T-Groins and the sand placement at
Hideaway, which is in the '04, '05 calendar years.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, yes. I had asked -- I'm sure
that this pathway can even be opened up. I talked with parks and rec.
just a little bit when I took another walk down there, and she said it's
pretty overgrown right now, but that wouldn't be a problem. We
could -- we could clear that out.
And so I would -- I would guess, David, that once we get all of
the final paperwork together, probably before the end of the year. I
mean --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- you know, because this isn't like
a delaying tactic or anything. This is an honest to goodness offer.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Good work, Commissioner
Fiala, for working this out.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, it's them that did it, really.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: How does this fit into our beach
access plans?
Maybe John Dunnuck can add a few words to this. It looks to
me like we've got a -- we're on the start of something here.
MR. DUNNUCK: Good afternoon, Commissioners. For the
record, my name is John Dunnuck, public services administrator.
First and foremost, the first thing I'd like to say is, I'd like some
time for my staff to take a look at what's being proposed instead of
negotiating something from the dais. You know, I'm very concerned
about that.
But initially, from what -- the plan we proposed to you the other
day in our master plan that you-all adopted, we did not have initially
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June 10, 2003
Tiger -- or we did not have Hideaway Beach listed as a usable access
point that we were looking at.
Our plan was based upon where we see the population presently
and then working back from that with then spreading out access to fit
the renourishment need.
The other issue I want you to consider, too, is the fact that, you
know, when you're looking at the funding request, part of what we
proposed was that TDC was the main focus of acquisition. When
they mention the Coastal Advisory Committee recommendations in
their budget, we don't have acquisition of land in any of that budget
that they balanced out. So if you added that in, there would be a
deficit in the TDC side of the shop.
So, you know, I don't know if I've answered your question or
not. But we certainly at least want to take a look at this project to see
where it would fit and the percentage and the usable space of what
they've talked about as far as parking goes. Because, you know,
from a first blush, just having the access in our plan, I think, would
be maybe 25 percent eligible, but depending on where they came up
with the parking, we'd have to look at the percentages.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Mr. Dunnuck, I agree is -- the
proposal is saying, hey, here's a beach access, but we haven't
identified the parking. That's good if you have the access, but then,
how you going to get there.'?
MR. DUNNUCK: Exactly.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: So --
MR. DUNNUCK: You know, your policy that you adopted was
based upon usable -- usable land.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Correct.
MR. DUNNUCK: You know, can we get the people there. And
the more money we give, the more people who can get there.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'd like you to be working with us.
And I see that there's land right there, and I know that there's a $1.4
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million surplus, and that means, while that land is still available --
and this is what we're trying to do all along here in all of our beach
districts is grab the ac -- the land while it's still available, and we
have it right here.
And I think that as you -- I would hope that you're working with
us. This is land that you could grab right now, and we have the
money to do that.
MR. DUNNUCK: Well, where I would respectfully disagree is
the fact that, from our priority standpoint, with that $1.4 million,
we'd be looking to spend it in the Naples area where we have a
greater need for usable space right now, and we also know that the
value is going up significantly in the Naples area just as well.
So we would-- you know, while -- yes, it fits in the overall
plan, you know, 10, 15 year (sic), 20 years down the road, you know,
in the next five years, is that the most viable location of where we
should be spending our funding and priorities?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. Except that -- I hope you
don't mind me talking back and forth with him.
Now, you say you'd rather spend it in the Naples area, and, you
know, I would never take anything from the Naples area, but I do
know that they're not eroding like Hideaway is. And I mean, this is
-- this is crucial, as Ron Hovell will say, it's the worst eroded beach
in our entire county. Not only that, but if we delay this much longer,
it's going to have a ripple effect all the way down the line. And so I
think this is terribly important to address right now.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Halas, do you mind if
I cut in here?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Sure, go ahead.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thanks.
What I heard was, we have temporary T-Groins, that we can
extend the permit until we put in permanent ones. So it's not
continuing eroding in Hideaway. And I disagree with the city
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councilman of saying this is going to erode all the beaches to the
south.
So if we can probably negotiate something with Hideaway,
there's nothing wrong with negotiating on it, but we still have the
temporary T-Groins, and I'm sure that our staff can take a look at
how long those temporary T-Groins can stay in there until permanent
ones, being put in.
So that would be the direction that I would want to go,
Commissioner Fiala, is there's a lot of safeguards in there to protect
the beach -- beaches, and there's opportunities, thank you, sir, for
possible beach access in this area. Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: The thing that -- I think
Commissioner Fiala brought up a point. If land is going at a fast rate,
especially along the coastline, I think we ought to look at the very --
take a very serious look at what we have there, if there is any
possibility, if we are going to have any type of environmental impact,
but I also think that if there is some land that, close by for parking,
that we ought to address that issue sooner, before later.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And let me add also, I appreciate
what you said about, buy access to the Naples beaches. We're
planning on throwing -- and this will be up next -- millions and
millions of dollars at them right now that's already been suggested
for approval, and that's great. This is the beach that's eroding, and
these people have worked hard with us now to give us what we've
been griping and complaining about. I think the least we can do is
fund what the CAC had recommended to fund.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Halas -- or
Commissioner Coyle, then Commissioner Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. This is a funding priority
issue, and I don't even know what the other priorities are. I think --
but I agree with the other commissioners that we should get down to
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this pretty quickly, and I'd like to request that the staff inform us of
the various priorities and what your recommendations are concerning
expenditure of the funds.
I do not necessarily see a linkage here between the granting of
the beach access and the continued deterioration of the beach at
Hideaway. It seems to me that, if necessary, we can continue the
maintenance process whether we have a parking lot there or not right
now. So I don't see that those two are linked.
But I think that it is worth some additional consideration in view
of the fact that they're -- they're willing to grant some access to the
beach, and that's a big improvement, I think. And so I would like to
see all the alternatives and what your rankings are for the expenditure
of the money and why. And at that point in time, I think we'll be
prepared to make a decision fairly quickly.
MR. DUNNUCK: That's fine. In essence, you know, what we
talked about with the master plan a couple weeks ago was the
ranking and the specific projects that we saw in the immediate
horizon with you adopting an overall policy on beach access and the
funding portion of it, because the missing link has always been
funding for us.
What we gave to you a couple weeks ago was a $36 million
project, just on its face value of what we -- what we provided a
couple weeks ago. So -- so we certainly can prioritize that as we
work through the policy guidelines, and I tend to agree with you
from the standpoint of, we do have time on this issue and not to rush
it through, but we do have time later this summer to come to some of
those resolutions.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commission Coletta, then
Commissioner Halas.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Okay. So I gather that the
direction is -- is to put this aside, continue it to either the middle of
the summer or the first meeting or so in September.
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Is there any danger of something -- some disaster befall on the
people in that area if something isn't done now? Do we -- we do
have time, right? There is not a safety concern, health, safety, and
welfare?
MR. HOVELL: Commissioners, again, Ron Hovell for the
record.
As I said before, we're planning on applying for the permits to
do this major construction sometime late summer, early fall, and so I
think at best we'd be looking at doing this construction starting in
November of 2004. So deferring the funding decision now until
sometime in the fall is not going to impact the schedule at all.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I tell you what, if this comes to
be, I'm going to be very supportive of the funding for this. It gives us
a little time to work out some of the details and the practicality of
what this access would mean.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, you got a -- if I may interject for a
second, okay, and I don't want to be a naysayer, because I hate maps
that show up that's missing the top part of the map, and I'm missing
the bottom part of the map, and you get to see the good stuff in the
middle. But you're missing the other piece.
This same access was offered 10 years ago, and the Board of
County Commissioners denied it, and -- because of-- because of the
access to Tigertail.
What's that -- what's that little white thing down at the bottom of
the map?
MR.
MR.
MR.
SOMERS: This is Tigertail.
MUDD: That's Tigertail?
SOMERS: Yeah.
MR. MUDD: How far-- how far is that green line from where
you took Chairman Halas and Commissioner Coletta and every
commissioner on this board when you showed them Hideaway
Beach? How far do you have to walk from that particular point in
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order to get to the beach that you showed them?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Fifty yards, hundred yards.
MR. MUDD: To the north.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Oh, it's a lot farther than that.
MR. SOMERS: Across the water. Yeah, that's at Little Clam
Pass. I mean, they'd have to walk across Little Clam Pass is where
we had the commissioners.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, we need a -- we need a little bit of
time on this one.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah. What I was going to
suggest is that the parks and rec. go out there, survey the area, and
come back and give us a report before we get all excited here.
MR. SOMERS: Let me also, ifI could, just add, when you were
talking about the T-Groins, the new permanent T-Groins envision
going up to 10 from the current number of seven, and they also
envision doubling the length of the T-Groins that are currently there.
You had an issue before you which was supposed to be some
additional placement of sand that was not put in by staff back in
December, and the Riviera folks from Royal Marco Point II came
and talked to the council and tried to have some additional sand put
in. There is a severe erosion problem in front of their particular
condominium units, and at that unit there is no T-Groin.
So, you know, certainly the additional sand placement that you
previously voted on is going to be a great help in maintaining the
beach -- the beaches in those areas, but the long-term fix does need to
be addressed sooner rather that postponing it.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah. I just wanted to add, you
mentioned Tigertail. Well, Tigertail is not as popular as it used to be
because of the nasty smell and the lagoon filling in as it is. This is
going to be -- with this access, we won't have to worry about that
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now. We will still have access to beaches right there at that end of
the island, even if they don't want to go to Tigertail.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Well, I see Tigertail right on the map
there.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'm just saying that --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: We don't mind if we go to further
speakers.
Thank you, Mr. Somers.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Kim Snediker, and he will
be followed by Ruth McCann.
MR. SNEDIKER: Hello, I'm Jim Snediker. I'm a member of
the Coastal Advisory -- excuse me, Coastal Advisory Committee.
I'm also chairman of the City of Marco Island Beach Advisory
Committee. I was a former -- member of the former Naples, Collier
County Beach, what, maintenance and road restoration committee.
I'm the second most senior member on the -- your beach committee.
I happen to also be an engineer.
At CAC we have spent a lot of time -- I don't know how many
hundreds of hours collectively -- going over the new policy and the
budget that you people have requested.
As far as the policy itself, we -- a subcommittee was established
last winter. I was part of that subcommittee, the three-member
subcommittee. We came up with a new policy for CAC itself. It was
unanimously approved by the subcommittee and went to the
committee, it's -- the full CAC committee and was approved by the
full CAC committee, based on that -- on this policy, which is based
on engineering need and public accessibility, engineering need and
public accessibility.
We then created a budget, a 1 O-year budget, if you will, of
basically looking at fiscal years '04 and '05, the two coming years.
For the budget itself-- this is the Category A budget. This is
from CAC. This CAC -- this was unanimously approve by every
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eight members of CAC, that includes the members from the City of
Naples, from the unincorporated area, and from the City of Marco
Island. This is an abbreviated form, obviously, because I didn't want
to get into the whole blowup off the entire budget.
But what we have in fiscal year '04 is 16.7 million available.
We have routine expenses, this being the monitoring of the pass and
-- passes and so on of 1.7.
MR. MANALICH: You want to use the mike there.
MR. SNEDIKER: I'm sorry. The routine expenses of 1.7
million. Now, the beaches, we broke that up into three different
areas here, the Vanderbilt, north county area. Can you hear me
okay?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: No, you've got to hold it up to your
MR. SNEDIKER: I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
MR. SNEDIKER: How's that, okay. Okay, excuse me.
The Vanderbilt, north county area of $2.5 million, Naples Park
Shore of $6.5 million, Marco Island and Hideaway of $3.5 million.
Parks and recreation has 1.1 million within this. This gives us
expenses here. And if you can see the bottom, $1.4 million surplus
in fiscal year '04.
Now, this takes care of all of our beaches, this brings in all of
our beaches except for Hideaway. Hideaway -- this takes care of the
T-Groins at Hideaway within this. It does not take care of the
renourishment. Hideaway was a least -- least priority on it.
The renourishment for Hideaway would be in two thousand--
$2.4 million in the next year. And the idea of this was to bring all of
our beaches in the entire county, Lee County down to Caxambus
Pass, if you will, all up full level. All those beaches that need
renourishment, all the way up and down the coast would be
renourished under this program and still have a 1.4 million -- or $2.1
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million surplus. Hideaway, again, was deferred till next year that --
because of the budget. We couldn't get all that in.
We did a lot of working around the budget, but this is what we
came up with. And so we've got it. CAC has solved it for you. You
have told CAC to solve it, we did solve it. Came up with a balanced
budget, took care of all of our beaches with a nice, very nice surplus
on it.
NOw, one other point I'd like to make is that the CAC policy --
and staff has come up with a different policy. The staff has presented
a policy to you -- did not present it to CAC, but they presented it to
you -- which shows the three different areas here.
We have the -- this being the Seagate, if you will, Vanderbilt,
north county area, Naples Park Shore, and then Marco Island
separate, off-- the Keewaydin Island is in here.
This is the -- present eligibility per the staff, per the staff's
policy, the percent -- 42 percent of the land in the north county area
would be eligible. Vanderbilt -- the main part of Vanderbilt Beach,
for example, would not be eligible under the staff plan for funding.
Under Naples, Park Shore, only 55 percent of Naples and Park
Shore area. Now, you made for other numbers -- made for numbers
something like 90 percent of Naples and Park Shore would be
eligible. That is not correct. The 90 percent number relates to the
renourishment back in '95, '96. Now I'm talking about the whole --
the whole area here and the current plan.
And I went through all the parking, I've got all the data here
from the county and the city of the number of parking spaces, the
public parking spaces, at their various locations.
So if you look at the 42, 55, and you see the bottom here, that's
45, they're all, you know, in the same range, in the same range.
Basically half the area, half the shoreline area of the entire county in
the three different areas would be eligible under the staff's funding,
under their highest priority.
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Again, the CAC budget we have here, 2.5 million in '04. Here
in Naples we have -- we have 6.5 in '04.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I have to ask you to wrap up, sir.
MR. Snediker: Okay. The one million in '05 is for Moorings
there, and then here we have Marco Island split. Thank you.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Ruth McCann, and she will
be followed by your final speaker, Bruce Anderson.
MS. McCANN: Good afternoon. My name is Ruth McCann.
I'm the executive director of the Marco Island Civic Association, and
MICA is the largest civic association in the State of Florida, and we
have over 20,000 members.
Some points that I wanted to make today is that Marco Island
has only one beach, it's one continuous beach. It begins at the north
end at Hideaway Beach and continues southward to Cape Marco.
Beach erosion in one area of the beach certainly will have a
domino effect on the rest of Marco's beach. Each day that these
projects are delayed results in greater erosion.
The tourist development tax was approved by 73 percent of
those who voted, and what the voters of Collier County approved
was financing beach renourishment and maintenance, period. I just
don't understand how beach -- financing of beach projects in areas
with new conditions applied saying that it would have to be within so
many feet with so much parking of public access.
If you wish to add conditions to the TDC funds, then this
question most likely should go back to the voters of Collier County
with these additional conditions. MICA asks that you not delay
funding of this project which affects all of Marco Island and approve
the placement of T-Groins on the north end of Marco Island today.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
MS. FILSON: Your final speaker is Bruce Anderson.
MR. ANDERSON: Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman,
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Commissioners. For the record, my name is Bruce Anderson. I
represent the Hideaway Beach Association.
I want to ask you to follow the unanimous recommendation of
your Coastal Advisory Committee and approve this TDC grant
application.
The legal and factual basis for these -- for both of the T-Groin
items dates back to 1997 when the county commission approved and
began implementation of the Big Marco and Capri Pass inlet
management plan. That plan called for T-Groin structures and beach
fill along Big Marco Pass at Hideaway Beach to combat severe
erosion.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. We're adjourned.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Somebody wants us to finish.
MR. MUDD: Bruce, can you talk a little bit at a higher octave,
please, okay?
MR. ANDERSON: And if the -- under that plan if the
monitoring proved successful, there were to be permanent T-Groins.
This item should be considered under the engineering
need-based guidelines that the county has applied for the last 11
years, not some unapproved ill-defined policy that leaves significant
gaps in how beach segments will be renourished financially and
physically when TDC funding -- if and when TDC funding is cut for
beach renourishment.
It would be arbitrary and discriminatory to defer approval of this
agenda item while awaiting some new undefined policy but to go
ahead and approve renourishment funding for the rest of Collier
County, get portions of which would not meet and also be affected
by this new funding policy.
What we have here is a yet-to-be-formulated, yet-to-be-finalized
policy being applied against one segment of beach but not against
any other segment of beach in need of renourishment. That hardly
seems fair, especially in light of the commitments and obligations
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June 10, 2003
contained in that 1997 Big Marco Pass inlet management plan.
The county should not walk off the job so near to completion.
Hideaway Beach is committed to working in tandem with the county
at the same time frames as the placement of the permanent T-Groins,
and the renourishment associated with the permanent T-Groins will
proceed.
We ask you to go ahead and approve this item conditioned upon
successful negotiations with Hideaway Beach for the beach access
that, up until now, I thought was such a crying need.
That's interesting that once it got offered, why, some folks kind
of balked at it and turned their nose up at it, and well, maybe we
don't really need it after all.
The property owners at Hideaway Beach have a record of
cooperation with Collier County that dates back to when -- 1979 and
1980 when beach access was traded for boat launch access, and as
recently as 2001 when Hideaway Beach came forward and provided
the county with a preliminary feasibility study to put a bridge over a
boardwalk to try to connect Hideaway and improve the access with
Tigertail Beach.
So they will continue to work with the county, if the county will
cooperate, and try to enhance public beach access for everyone.
And I think, lastly, that Ms. McCann raised a very good point
when she asked about the referendum. And I want to repeat -- I want
to repeat the last line of it. The voters did not approve the laundry
list that is contained in the tourist development statute when they
approved the two percent tourist tax. All they approved was to use it,
and I'll quote, for financing beach renourishment and maintenance
and to promote and advertise tourism. That's it. Arguably, any other
use of that money is illegal.
Thank you for your time.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Mr. Anderson, before you go away, I
have a question. What did you mean by ill-advised policy? What
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June 10, 2003
ill-advised policy.'?
MR. ANDERSON: The one that this commission rejected two
weeks ago and sent back to the drawing boards.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: The one that the commissioners sent
back down to the CAC to revise and send back up? MR. ANDERSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. And what is -- your opinion
is that voters approve funding for tourist taxes on private or
semiprivate beaches; is that what they stated?
MR. ANDERSON: There's no specificity as between private
and public in the ballot question.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Don't you think --
MR. ANDERSON: And all of the beaches in Florida are public.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: If you can get to them.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: If you can get to them. I think that --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: That's the thing, if you can get to
them.
MR. ANDERSON: You can get to Hideaway's through the boat
launch that they provided, and also walking from Tigertail. There's a
little --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Low tide.
MR. WALKER: -- Little Clam Pass, right.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And it's about a three-mile walk,
couple-mile walk, right?
MR. ANDERSON: I don't know what the entire length is off
the top of my --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah. I've been down there.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: My wife and I were down there a
few months ago, got there by boat. I don't know how many residents
have boats to get there though.
Always a pleasure, Mr. Anderson.
MR. ANDERSON: Always mine, thank you.
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CHAIRMAN HENNING: That's our last public speaker?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. I'd like to make a motion,
please.
Gentlemen, Commissioners, we all -- three of us have beaches
in our-- in our districts, and all of us have some problems with
access here and there. We all need renourishment. The CAC has
presented a plan where all of us could be renourished.
Hideaway Beach has come forward and has said, let us give you
access here, so we'll have an access right there, which, by the way,
could begin very shortly because the people of Marco could even
ride their bikes over there. But it's a good time for us to jump on that
property next to it so we can build a parking lot as well.
So I make a motion that we approve the TDC Category A grant
application related to beach renourishment for the $2.3 million
replacement of temporary T-Groins on Hideaway Beach.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion by Commissioner Fiala. Is
there a second to the motion?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I'll second it for purposes of
discussion, but I have a question.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I do, too.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Who goes first?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: You go ahead.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Coyle.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. I really believe that these
advisory committees serve a very valuable function, and I think it's
necessary that we listen to them and utilize their input.
I am really confused by all of this, and I need to have a very
clear understanding of, what does the CAC recommend -- I think
that's what it is right there -- what does the TDC recommend, and I
need that very clearly stated so I'll know what my advisory boards
are telling me they think we ought to do.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: All three of you stand up there and
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June 10, 2003
tell us.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah.
MR. WERT: For the record, Jack Wert, tourism director. The
coastal advisory did recommend it and the Tourist Development
Council voted to defer until we had a policy.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: A policy.
MR. WERT: A policy.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: What will the deferral do with
respect to the project?
MR. WERT: Ron, do you want to take that?
MR. HOVELL: Commissioners, again, Ron Hovell for the
record.
As I said before, we plan on applying for the permits late this
summer, early fall. Construction wouldn't begin for about a year after
that, so any funding decisions could be made up to even a year from
now and still not impact the overall timing of the project.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: So it will not impact the project at all
if it's deferred? It won't place any permits in jeopardy, it won't --
MR. HOVELL: It shouldn't, and depending on, you know, what
your ultimate decision is for funding, if there's other implications as
far as lining up other funding, that would still allow for about six
months to figure out the rest of the story, so --
(~OMMISSIONER COYLE' So --
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, I want to -- I want to -- one
caveat. You know, deferral for how long? And I think that's what
you're getting at.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah.
MR. MUDD: And what Ron basically said is he's going to
submit for the permits. He's also going to ask to extend the
temporary T-Groin permit that's there so it doesn't sunset on us and
get another year or so.
But the policy was sent back from this board down to the TDC,
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June 1 O, 2003
and from the TDC down to the -- to the CAC, the Coastal Advisory
Committee. And it depends on when those two forums plan to bring
back that policy to the board, how long this deferral is.
And I can't -- and I can't tell you because I have no way -- you
know, there was no intent that was put on the policy coming back to
this board as far as direction the last time the board met to the TDC
nor the CAC. So I can't tell you how long it's going to take them to
come back with that policy to get this deferral taken off based on
what the policy says.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. There are two things, one
is an observation. If the CAC felt very strongly about approving this,
and apparently they did, and they now have the policy responsibility,
then I doubt seriously if they're going to lag very long in getting us a
policy -- getting the policy back to us for consideration. I would
think they would move along rather quickly if-- if the funds were, in
fact, deferred. So I don't think there's much risk that the CAC will
unnecessarily delay the decision.
The other point is that if, in fact, we get close to the point where
we need to take action, we can reconsider and approve it if necessary
rather than see this project be placed in jeopardy; is that not true?
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir. And I would also suggest that if you
defer this, that you earmark the dollars so it just doesn't get put into
reserves --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Exactly.
MR. MUDD: -- and you put it on that line so somebody else
doesn't say, well, I can use it because I want to buy beach access in
someplace in Collier County with those dollars.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, here's my problem,
Commissioner Fiala. I think we need to protect this project, and I
agree with you. What we have here is a disagreement between the
CAC and the TDC. I think we need to get them to resolve their
disagreements and bring to us a policy that they can both endorse and
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give them enough time to do it but not enough time to put the project
in jeopardy, because I understand your concern about Hideaway --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- and I don't want to see that
beach completely eroded.
So what I would like to suggest is that we do as the county
manager has suggested, earmark those funds for this specific project,
defer it until the CAC can develop the policy and the TDC can
review the policy, we agree on the policy, and then those funds will
be released in accordance with that policy. That gives everybody a
good shot at it and gets all of the disagreements resolved without
putting the project in jeopardy; in other words, it's not going to be
taken away. It's only going to be deferred until we can resolve these
policies.
COMMISSIONER FIALA:
talking about deferral --
COMMISSIONER COYLE:
COMMISSIONER FIALA:
Let me ask you this, as we're
Somebody doesn't like us.
I know. Or maybe that's God
coming in and kind of watching over us and guiding us a little bit.
Let me ask you about the deferral. Being that they're talking
about a policy where we provide access and bathrooms and parking,
that would affect your beaches and your beaches.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Exactly right.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: So maybe we should defer all three
renourishment projects until they have the policy.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I don't know that there are any
renourishment projects that are requiring --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, you have $9 million on your
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Oh, no, no, but it's not -- it's not
immediately being applied, is it? Are we in the middle of a project
right now?
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MR. HOVELL: Again, Ron Hovell, for the record. There's
actually no construction planned for this coming win -- no major
construction planned for this coming winter, and all these that you're
discussing are probably a year and a half out. COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah.
MR. HOVELL: And it's my understanding that the $9 million
item was also pulled for that exact reason.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. So there's nothing going on
right now, so a deferral won't hurt any of us, I don't think.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: So we could put them all -- we can
defer everything until we have a policy?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I have no problem with that.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Not only that, but then we'll have
some more additional information on what we really have out there
and to get some idea of what the capabilities are, yes.
COMMISSIONER FIALA:
COMMISSIONER HALAS:
was hesitant.
COMMISSIONER FIALA:
Okay. I--
That's the only thing -- reason I
The reason I bring this up is
because I don't want to just see my district being deferred. I would
like us all to join in together.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Definitely, yes.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Agreed.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We need a uniform policy, and I
don't -- I don't see any reason why we can't wait a short period of
time. I just want to be reassured by the staff that this is not going to
place any projects in jeopardy, okay?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Coyle, are you
removing your second to the motion?
MR. MUDD: And I will go back one more time and say to you,
Commissioner, that if you have timely action by the CAC and the
TDC on the policy coming back to the board, no project will be in
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June 1 O, 2003
jeopardy.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Let me --
MR MUDD: If they languish -- if they languish into it 365 days
from now, then I'm going to say, things are a little bit tight.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: What's our drop-dead date? I
mean, be conservative. Give us plenty of time.
MR. DeLONY: For the policy, sir, specifically --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: No, the approval of the funds for
the projects themselves.
MR. DeLONY: Some of them are project-specific. I see no
issues if we can get the board to get back in here no later than
September with a policy. We should be able to execute the program
without problems with permitting or with construction schedules.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Do you want to set that as a
deadline and say, hey, if it's not done by September, we're getting
back to us and we'll make a decision on the funding with or without
the costs?
MR. DeLONY: Working with the committees and with both the
TDC and the CAC on the beach renourishment strategy as long -- as
well as the access strategy.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah.
MR. DeLONY: Marry those two together and --
COMMISSIONER
COMMISSIONER
COMMISSIONER
COMMISSIONER
COMMISSIONER
COMMISSIONER
motion?
COYLE:
HALAS:
FIALA:
HALAS:
FIALA:
COYLE:
COMMISSIONER FIALA:
All together. Let's have them--
Yeah.
Great. Then that's fair, that's fair.
That's good.
I feel--
Would you want to revise your
I'll just withdraw my motion and
ask that we defer this -- defer this subject --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Till September.
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June 10, 2003
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- or this item until -- till the latest,
the end of September, until we can have an agreement that is
accepted by the CAC and the TDC which affects all three of our
districts.
MR. DeLONY: Second meeting in September.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: The end of September.
MR. DeLONY: We will be working with the, I believe, Mr. --
the chairman's on the TDC, and working with the TDC.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And I've got to say is -- what about
if the CAC and TDC doesn't send up something that's agreeable to
the board, are we going to make a decision on the policy ourselves?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I would -- I would be willing to do
that.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, I would.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: So there's a motion on the floor by
Commissioner Fiala to defer this item till no later than the end of
September.
Is there a second to the motion?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Second.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Second.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Discussion on the motion?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I'd just like to make sure this will
not interfere with the bulldozing of that road in Pelican Bay to get to
the beach.
MR. MUDD: Nor will there be a bulldozer through Hideaway
to get to their beach.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You're not going there.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I don't know who's worse, Coletta
or Coyle.
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June 1 O, 2003
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Let me just say this to the three
coastal commissioners. If you take a look at who you represent in
your district, you're going to find there are a lot more people that
have to drive to the beach than walk.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: That's exactly right. That's why
we're trying to do this.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And-- well, I'm a little bit concerned
where we're going with that. And where we -- are we going to -- is
our goal to provide more beach access for the people in East Naples
or people who don't live on the coast, or is it to stay status quo? So --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, of course we want access.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I just want you to keep that in mind
when we start making decisions on the -- on this policy about beach
access or funding as far as the beach access and the actual
renourishment of the beach.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I also think there's a possibility of
a park and ride type system, too, okay? I think there's that
possibility.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Those that can't provide it --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Those that can't provide parking,
we could have a park and ride system and have a drop-off point,
because I think the parking, especially along the coastline -- I don't
care where it is in Collier County -- is going to be at a very, very
high premium. And I think we just have to look at all avenues, and I
think we're going to have to look at the possibility of shuttling people
there for a nominal fee or something of that nature.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And I just wanted to get everybody
thinking of who we really represent, and I know everybody feels that
we represent all the people in Collier County.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Exactly right.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Any further discussion?
(No response.)
Page 226
June 10, 2003
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Mr. Mudd, do you have anything to
deliver to us before we vote on this?
MR. MUDD: No, sir. As soon as you're done with this item, I'd
like to do 10(H), 10(I), 10(J), which have to do with the same item.
So as long as we're on the same thought, you don't even have to
discuss the projects of beach renourishment. You just said you
wanted to defer them all. I'd just like to get four votes.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: All in favor of the motion, signify by
saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion carries, 5-0.
Item #1 OH, Item #10I, and Item #10J
TOURIST DEVELOPMENT CATEGORY "A" BEACH
RENOURISHMENT/MAINTENANCE GRANT APPLICATIONS
FOR FISCAL YEAR 2003/2004 IN THE AMOUNT OF $1,463,100;
TDC CATEGORY "A" GRANT APPLICATION FOR THE
RENOURISHMENT OF VANDERBILT, PARK SHORE AND
NAPLES BEACHES IN THE AMOUNT OF $9,000,000; AND TDC
CATEGORY "A" GRANT APPLICATION FOR THE
RENOURISHMENT OF MARCO SOUTH BEACH IN THE
AMOUNT OF $600,000-DEFERRED TO THE SEPTEMBER 23,
2003 BCC MFJF. TING
Mr. Hovell, is any of the action that we're about to take on
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June 10, 2003
deferring this is (sic) in jeopardy? I know there was some items in
there that were about to tie to the permit.
MR. HOVELL: Commissioners, all these items are for money
that would become available on October 1st. And I think as long as
ultimately you make that decision before October 1st, it can't
possibly impact anything, so we'll just defer that.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Motion by Commissioner Fiala --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Second.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- to defer these items, second by
Commissioner Halas.
We do have one public speaker.
MS. FILSON: JohnArceri.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: He waives.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Waive.
CHAIRMAN HENNING:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING:
saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING:
Any discussion on the motion?
All in favor of the motion, signify by
Opposed?
Motion carries unanimously.
We do have -- want to switch out court reporters. So if I could
ask the commissioners not to go anywhere so we can make that
transition and get to the people of Naples Park.
(A recess was taken.)
Item #10G
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June 1 O, 2003
BUDGET AMENDMENT OF $25,000 FROM CURRENT
PLANNING OBJECT CODE TITLED "OTHER CONTRACTUAL
SERVICES" TO THE COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT
OBJECT CODE ENTITLED "OTHER CONTRACTUAL
SERVICES" FOR THE EXPENDITURE OF MONIES TO
PREPARE A MAIL-OUT BALLOT FOR DISSEMINATION TO
Al.l. NAPIJFJS PARK PROPERTY OWNFRS-APPROVFD
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Please take your seats -- next item is
10(F) -- no, I'm sorry. Next. MR. MUDD: 10(G).
CHAIRMAN HENNING: 10(G), formerly 16 (A) 10, approve
amendment of budget of $25,000 current planning objective, code
title, other contractual services to the community redevelopment
objection code for expenditure of money prepared for the mail-out
ballot for discriminatory to all Naples Park owners. Mr. Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah. Commissioner Henning,
I wanted to give you notice that at six o'clock. I have to leave to be
in Everglades City. They're having a school meeting with the school.
They're holding their school open for the council, and I promised
them faithfully that I'd be there to help represent them. So I want to
serve notice now that I will be leaving at six.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Mr. Coyle has to leave for
similar reasons.
MR. SCHMITT: Commissioners, for the record, Joe Schmitt,
Administrator, Community Development, Environmental Services
Division. In the interest of time, and to allow our public speakers to
speak, I'm only going to -- I'm going to give them a very short
introduction on just kind of where we were and where we're going.
As you well know, shown on the slide, October 22nd, you
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June 10, 2003
approved a contract for the amount shown, $211,000. We had a kick
off. It started the 15th, and that was with the county staff and Dover
Kohl. About 250 resident from Dover Kohl -- or from Naples Park
attended that, followed by four days of a design charette.
Somewhere in the neighborhood of a hundred citizens each day
attended that.
We had the close-out meeting on that Friday, and about 300 of
the residents of Naples Park attended that, followed by February 17th
-- or 6th, again, where we had another presentation by Dover Kohl.
I'm going to throw this next one on. This is quick, but here's the
bottom line. Today, of course, is the 10th. You've already had the
final report. I forwarded that to you under separate cover, and we're
going to talk -- basically, we talked about the recommendations.
My proposal is that we'll mail out the ballot on or about -- let
me make sure you can see' that.
MR. SCHMITT: August time frame, allow approximately 60
days for the residents or the -- actually, the property owners to
respond. That would bring us into the November time frame, where
we would tally the ballot, and note we would initiate the plan,
portions of the plan, any part thereof which the citizens so choose or
we'll kill it, recognizing the fact that the plan is -- Dover Kohl did the
study, but push Dover Kohl aside now. It's the community's plan, it's
the residents of Naples Park--
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Folks, we're going to clear the room,
unless we can have respect and let the speakers who are speaking
talk.
MR. SCHMITT: It's the residents of Naples Park. It's their plan.
They can choose to implement any portion of the plan or they can
reject it entirely. The objective of the vote will -- to establish,
number one, the interest, and number two, if the residents of Naples
Park choose to implement any portion of the plan, meaning code
enforcement, an overlay, some kind of a zoning overlay, tree-lined
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June 10, 2003
streets, any portion thereof, and I'm not going to go through the plan,
but if they choose to implement any portion of it, do they agree to
form an MSTU to do so, and that is the purpose of the ballot.
The ballot will go out to every property owner, every property
owner. If a property owner owns ten homes, they will get ten ballots,
and that's the purpose of the ballot, to canvas every property owner
and assess their interest in this plan or not. That concludes my presentation.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Questions by the members of the
board? Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Start off with, is the -- how is the
ballot going to be set up? Do you have any idea? And is it going to
be a very simplified ballot with some options or just --
MR. SCHMITT: Commissioner, as you well know, it's a very
complicated plan. There were several proposals made in that plan.
We're left-- that's one of the reasons why we're looking for a
consultant, to help us develop that, and the other objective will be --
or part of that will be to use a small sample of the residents to test,
actually, the validity of the ballot to see if it's -- basically, is it
idiot-proof, meaning -- I'm not being disingenuous, but I want to
make sure that there are no trick questions or anything that can be --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Construed.
MR. SCHMITT: -- construed or some -- confused, and that's
why we're looking for a consultant. We anticipate 3500 -- at least
3500 ballots will have to be mailed, self-addressed, stamped
envelopes, and looking at approximately anywhere from three to six
dollars it will cost per ballot, depending on the complexities of the
ballot and paper stock, all the other things associated with it.
So that's what we're looking at, and I still will need a legal
determination, because there will be a determination on this from the
county attorney's office as to whether or not, if a property owner
chooses not to return the ballot, how do you count that ballot. Do
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June 10, 2003
you count it as a no vote, or do you count it simply as no interest. So
we'll have to determine that as well.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: With respect to the ballot itself, I
really believe you have to bring that ballot back to us in a public
hearing so that we can take a look at it before it's sent out. I really
would like for the board to see the ballot and make a final approval
on the ballot before it goes out. I think your idea of doing a test run
on it is a really good idea, because these are tricky things.
The other thing I would suggest to you is that you arrange to
have the ballots brought in, but not opened, and you open the ballots
in a public forum, and they can be counted publicly so everybody
knows how they're counted, and the final thing is that you didn't tell
us in your brief overview, I think I know the answer, but it might
have started before I got here. How did we get to the point of
awarding a contract with Dover Kohl? How did you get involved in
this process?
MR. SCHMITT: That actually goes back to 1995, when the
county sent in its first EAR, evaluation and appraisal report. We
were criticized by the state department of Community Affairs, for not
having a community plan that addressed community character and
community redevelopment. Let me just --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I guess my point is, did we go to
the Naples Park, and say, we want to develop a plan for you?
MR. SCHMITT: No. That's -- what had happened, we then
proceeded with the community character plan. As a result of that, the
Board of County Commissioners committed $250,000 a year, per
year, they were ear marking for various studies throughout the
county. It was the residents of Naples Park who petitioned the board,
approached the board, and actually in, I believe it's September,
October 2000, let me just look at that date. Actually, it was April
2001 where the residents approached the board and asked that Naples
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June 10, 2003
Park be considered, and Naples Park was identified as a perfect site,
and on September 10th, 2002, the board approved staff to negotiate
with Dover Kohl, because the residents also asked specifically for
Dover Kohl as a follow-on, because Dover Kohl did the initial
community character plan.
So on September 10th, 2002, the board directed --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes.
MR. SCHMITT: -- staff to negotiate the contract.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
MR. SCHMITT: So it was the request of the residents at Naples
Park that initiated the entire process.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Thank you. You answered
my question. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Please. We'll have a chance for the
residents, so we want to -- we do want to hear from you.
MR. SCHMITT: And I know there's some disagreement as to
what was the representative party that -- at least representing the
majority of the residents of Naples Park, but I was here at that
meeting, and in fact, they approached the board, and they asked the
board to initiate this study.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I remember that clearly.
I'm in favor of asking the residents, but it's how we ask the
residents to implement this plan is the question. I have some
recommendations, but I would want support of the commissioner of
the district.
We have brand new equipment from the supervisor of elections,
and instead of going out and spending the money for an outside
consultant, why not spend it in house and let the supervisor of
elections prepare the ballot with the help, because you have two sides
of this issue. You have people for it and against it, with the help of
two representatives on both sides.
MR. SCHMITT: We will still have to have an absentee ballot,
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June 10, 2003
because there are many --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Absentee owners, and I think the
best way we thought we would address this would be through the
water bills, because that way we're sure that we're getting to all the
particular peoples that own the properties there in Naples Park.
MR. SCHMITT: Again, I'm hesitant to use the water bill.
That's only--
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, you need to do an absentee ballot
to the property owners. It goes to the people that pay the property
taxes. If the water bill goes to a tenant, it could go to a tenant that
pays the bill, pays the electricity, the water and the rent. Okay. Not
necessarily the property owner of that particular -- that particular
piece.
MR. SCHMITT: I will have to go to the tax assessor's office
and pull the current tax assessment addresses and property owners,
and that's who will receive the ballots.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: But I think the only fair way to do
it is to have a ballot that goes to every person that's a property owner,
and have them decide what they want to do, because I think that
we've got a large sampling here of residents, but I think we also have
a large sampling of residents that are kind of the silent majority, I
guess you could say.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Ms. Filson, how many
speakers do we have?
MS. FILSON: 18.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: We have 18 speakers. We don't
want to lose the majority of the board, so let's give each speaker three
minutes.
MS. FILSON: Okay. The first one is Loretta LeLeux. She will
be followed by John Austin.
MS. LELEUX: For the record, Loretta LeLeux. I'm a resident
at 800 104th Avenue North. Good afternoon, Commissioners.
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June 1 O, 2003
First of all, I would like to apologize to you all for the slurs that
have been against you, that you were in cahoots with Dover Kohl to
take over the Naples park area for whatever reason. I was one of the
original neighbors that got together with some of my other neighbors,
and it was not the property owners of Naples Park that instituted this.
This was just neighborhood driven. There were several of us that
had participated in focus, and in the community character plan for
Collier County itself, participated in their workshops, and we liked a
lot of the ideas they had, and we felt that Naples Park could be
utilized, because we could utilize some of what was out there, and we
had originally come to the board requesting a change in the zoning
from RMF-6 to single family, which is what we used to be. And
with the persuasion of the commissioner said oh, this would be a
perfect place for Dover Kohl to study a neighborhood that could be
revitalized, and that's where we went. We kept pursuing it.
I personally like a lot of the ideas that they have, but everyone
has an opinion, everyone is entitled to voice their opinion. We have
had a lot of animosity in the neighborhood because of this. A lot of
people are afraid to speak in public. Unfortunately, maybe, I'm not
one of those. I will get up and speak in public.
I feel that this needs to go to a vote. We live in a democracy,
and in a democracy, you get to vote on it, and that the people that are
concerned and want to voice their opinion will return their ballot. If
they do not return the ballot, it should not be counted.
When you, as commissioners, stood for election, the people that
showed up at the polls and voted for you or voted for you with an
absentee ballot are the votes that were counted, and 50 percent plus
one, or whatever your majority was, that's how you won. You did not
count how many voters were registered to vote that did not bother to
be concerned. We have a lot of people that did not bother to attend
any of the meetings or any of the workshops, and it's only when they
were misinformed, pieces and bits from the plan, and came up with
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June 10, 2003
opinions and voiced those opinions, and we have a lot of people that
have e-mailed me that they're very much in favor of this, but they're
afraid to speak out because they don't want to be retaliated by some
of their neighbors, or to be embroiled and embarrassed.
So all I ask is that you please let us vote. Whether it's for or
against, you have a chance to vote. Thank you very much.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is John Austin and he will be
followed by Barbara Bateman.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: If I can ask Ms. Bateman and the
speakers right after Ms. Bateman to stand behind the speaker before
you.
MS. FILSON: After Miss Bateman is Betty Mathys.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Then we can get through this much
quicker so you can go home.
MR. AUSTIN: Good evening. I have the answers right here.
They're in your records. They're on film. They're in the court
records. We have some. We're investigating four more films and
more records, but right now, there's some damaging evidence here,
and the proper procedure should have been this, no ad hoc
committee, self-appointed, has the right to speak for the citizens that
are property owners of Naples Park. That organization had a paid
membership of 45 people, and they approached you with four or five,
and I can name them, Vera Fitz-Gerald, Erica Flynn (phonetic),
Loretta LeLeux, and Sally Barker (phonetic), not even a resident of
Naples Park, lives in Pine Ridge, is over here pining away for the
thing to happen.
You, Mr. Henning, were on the ball. You said, I need to say
that the civic association, my experience, you know, maybe doesn't
represent the community and all its feelings. So you know I've been
interviewed in the community for civic associations for a number of
years, and I enjoy it.
What they want to do is improve the neighborhood, but again,
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let's check the sense of the community as a whole. It wasn't.
Nobody was contacted here. They said they contacted us by
newspaper. There's only 600 newspapers goes into Naples Park with
7,000 residents. That's nothing. If I was in the circulation
department, I'd quit, but they didn't get the message to us. They say
they had circulars. Their circular machine was busted. There was
nothing but political par, and you admitted it, Donna, because you
said, they kept coming to you, they kept coming to you. How come
nobody on the opposite side came to you? Because they didn't let us
know. We had no idea what they were doing, and Mr. Coyle, you
backed Mr. Henning on that, and you asked about the cost. You
asked about it, John. You asked about it, Mr. Henning. Frank, you
were out of it. You were the new boy on the block. Okay. But it's
still going on.
Here they are asking and demanding for things, and saying, we
should do this or we should do that. That's four people. We are
3,145 property owners. So that in other words, what they're saying is
300 and -- 3,100 aren't for it, only their 45 are, and they convinced
you. And unfortunately, you dropped your candy in the sand
listening to four people, instead of talking to us. You should have
come out and talked to the people, and this would have never
happened.
That gentleman told me today, Mr. Austin, if you had this in
effect at the time that this was being presented to Naples Park, if you
had your group, Dover Kohl would be gone back to Miami, and he
was right. That's where they belong. Not here. We don't want the
plan. No part of it.
And if you have a ballot, it must be the Democratic way. Yes or
no. Not a menu. We've had three menus from them, and they've
come up with nothing. We have over a thousand signatures in our
organization saying no to Dover Kohl. So we look to you for results.
Thank you.
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June 1 O, 2003
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Barbara Bateman. She will
be followed by Betty Mathys, and she will be followed by Dolores
Klein.
MS. BATEMAN: Good afternoon, Commissioners. My name
is Barbara Bateman. I am the civic chairperson for the Naples Park
Area Association, and I will be speaking on behalf of the association
as well as a devoted homeowner in Naples Park for 28 years. I will
be addressing a couple of issues today.
First of all, the Naples Park Area Association took a vote on the
Dover Kohl plan at their April 17, 2003 business meeting. The
results of the vote were 85 percent against the Dover Kohl plan. The
community plan is too cost prohibitive, especially for those on fixed
incomes. Many consider this an unnecessary financial burden for
beautification. We have a lot of elderly people in our community,
and it's really very difficult for them to go on with the cost of this
plan.
I would like to convince the board of commissioners, who is in
control of our county, that there have been some discrepancies in the
handling of the planning program for this Naples Park community
plan. One of those discrepancies dates back to a videotaped county
commissioners workshop meeting of June 5,2001, when former
Commissioner Jim Carter, along with Loretta LeLeux, Vera
Fitzgerald, let it be known that the majority of Naples Park was in
favor of the proposed Dover Kohl plan. That started everything in
motion for the county to endorse the ad hoc committee to proceed
with their arrangements to create plans for the developers and
investors to make it -- move in with their housing development and
other amenities.
In the interim, Jim Carter was voted out of office, and a new
commissioner was installed. That same group continued their quest
to promote the Naples Park community plan by Dover Kohl
consultants to the new commissioner. They also had him convinced
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June 1 O, 2003
that the majority of homeowners were in favor of the plan.
So word finally circulated through the park that we were going
to have new drainage, tree sidewalks, with an estimated price tag of
$10,000 per 50-foot lot, plus an additional $3,000 more to make
Naples Park a better place to live.
A small number of people had no difficulty promoting the
Naples Park plan for the commissioners to accept, but over a
thousand owners are not able to convince the commissioners we don't
want the plan or the ballot.
Isn't the scale ofjustice out of balance? Why is it so important
to have a plan? Why is it so important to have this plan?
One of the reasons is our commissioners are considering adding
Naples Park, and it's our opinion, to a current established community
redevelopment agency. According to the board of commissioners,
January 8th, 2002 meeting, a plan is required by Florida statutes. A
plan of this kind has to be a component--
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I'll have to ask you to wrap up.
MS. BATEMAN: -- for establishing the CR.
I will wrap it up. I'm almost finished.
And it's for exactly this reason we do not want the plan, because
as long as one item is selected from the menu of a variety of
proposals, we meet the criteria of a plan for CRA, and it's this plan
being considered for our best interest or the commissioners? A CRA
is not an acceptable option for our community when looking for
creative ways to finance the plan.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Ma'am, I'll have to ask you to wrap
up.
MS. BATEMAN: No more rules or regulatory measures, and
we ask, please take our plight, and if there is a rejection of this plan
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Ma'am, thank you.
MS. BATEMAN: -- to stop the ballot, you want to proceed, we
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June 10, 2003
need to have input from all communities. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
MS. BATEMAN: Thank you for the opportunity to let me
speak.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And then some.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Betty Mathys. She's
followed by Dolores Klein, and she's followed by Marrela Carratala.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Ms. Filson, would you repeat that,
and if I could ask the audience to hold their applause to the end. You
can congratulate all the speakers at that time, so we get to all the
speakers.
MS. FILSON: Dolores Klein.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
behind her.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:
should be first.
MS. FILSON:
Marrela Carratala.
MS. KLEIN:
I'm sorry. Mrs. Mathys is first.
That's okay. Let her go. I'll go
I was here at nine o'clock. So I
Okay. Dolores Klein and Betty Mathys, then
I'm Dolores Klein, and I live in 717 91st Avenue
North. I bought my house in 1976, thinking that Naples Park was a
beautiful place to live, and I still believe Naples Park is heaven. We
don't need no more trees. I just had two cut down, and you wanted to
put trees on my house. Forget it. And this is all I want, your help.
We don't want this ballot.
Now, remember, a few years ago you commissioners, you were
not here, decided to send the ballots, empty ballots out to the people
that were out of town. It was a -- refuse them. They didn't send. A
lot of people don't get them in the mail. So what is going to be,
$25,000 on us? No, that's no good. Wait until those numbers are
here, and then you have it out. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
MS. KLEIN: And no for that.
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June 10, 2003
MS. FILSON: Betty Mathys, and she will be followed by
Marrela Carratala.
MS. CARRATALA: The ballot should not go out, because a
four-page ballot is going to be confusing. Every time I have seen a
survey from Dover Kohl, all of the ideas in the plan are always
presented without prices on the survey. I like lots of things I can't
pay for. Out-of-town property owners may not understand the cost
involved, and vote, assuming there is no cost.
The 122 citizen planners should have been given cost figures
from the start. I'm sure Dover Kohl had ballpark figures. If there are
3200 pieces of property, 122 people, the citizen planners, represent
less than 4 percent of the owners of the property. That's how many
people were interested in a makeover.
Any zoning changes should be considered item by item, not as
an overlay. That way we will be sure we are not getting unwanted
changes. When you just overlay, there's too many details to be
absorbed by everyone.
But the worst thing that I object to is discussed on Page 714, and
that is that there will a committee, an advisory committee
established, if even one item is approved, and they will not be bound
by the vote, and they will be advising.
Let me remind you, we're here today because the committee
appeared before you and misrepresented the fact that they
represented the majority of people in Naples Park. I don't think a
committee should be making decisions for me and my property.
The ballot should be stopped, because the people voting could
end up with unwanted changes and bring things upon themselves that
they're not going to understand.
Please stop this madness by a few people. Look into your
hearts. Follow the golden rule. Do unto others as you would have
them do unto you. Thank you for your time.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Please, please, please, please, please.
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June 10, 2003
MS. FILSON: Marrela Carratala. She will be followed by
Manuel Rodrigues. He will be followed by Carole Stefano (sic).
MS. CARRATALA: Ladies and gentlemen, my name is
Marrela Gonzalez-Carratala, and I stand here before you today
regarding the Dover Kohl project. I have come to address you in the
hopes that in these times of short funds for education, social service,
crime prevention, even national security issues, that you
commissioners of this county can so casually intimate that the
property owners of Naples Park live in a blighted community.
If this were true, why would persons from all over the country,
as well as others, come to buy up property for their homesteads and
for their seasonal homes, nor would the middle class, and others,
consider it the place to live in Collier County so close to the beach.
Not everyone cares to live in a gated community, nor does it
need to be revamped for businesses along the 41 corridor. The
businesses are small, and there are no large parcels of land available.
I don't know where we would start to revamp.
If that were the case, that it was so undesirable, why would the
very large shopping center be put in on 41, and right on Immokalee
Road, why would they have gone up, and in less than two years have
all of their outparcels been committed to being built.
Also, I'd like to address the traffic situation as to the speeders in
the area. That cannot be solved by any entity other than law
enforcement. How dare Dover Kohl imply that they alone will solve
this issue. Traffic control is in the hands of the very capable Collier
County Sheriff's Office, and if we, the residents and property owners,
feel that it needs to be addressed, then we, as a community, will
follow the steps necessary in the proper way to resolve it. May I add
that those steps are one, to contact the Sheriff's Office so they may
have it on file and conduct a proper research and compile statistics as
to the problem itself, and two, along with the Sheriff's Office, draft a
letter addressed to the DOT of the county and the traffic engineer to
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get the matter resolved.
Let us correct Dover Kohl along with Colonel Schmitt and the
traffic engineer for the county, who has misrepresented themselves at
prior meetings by telling us that the Dover Kohl plan is the only
solution.
I could go on and on as of-- with the misrepresentation of the
Dover Kohl plan. The bottom line is we, the majority, and when I
say majority, I mean over 75 percent of the property owners in itself
of Naples Park, feel that, number one, we don't need it; number two,
we don't want it; and number three, we will have to do whatever is
necessary to see that it is not forced down our throats.
I tell you, ladies and gentlemen, it would be wise to heed the
will of your constituents, for a friend in need is a friend indeed.
Good day.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Manuel Rodrigues. He will
be followed by Carole DiStef-- DiStefano and Jeannie Darbyson.
MR. RODRIGUES: Good afternoon, commissioners. I'm kind
of new at this, so you're going to have to excuse my inexperience.
My name is Manuel Rodrigues. Our family has lived in Naples Park
for 14 years. My two sons have attended Naples Park Elementary,
participated in North Naples Little League for about eight, nine
years, and they have recently graduated from Barton Collier High
School, and now are enrolled at Florida Gulf Coast University. I'm
giving you this information because I want to stress to you all that
my family's roots are entrenched in this neighborhood.
We do not want to be uprooted and forced to relocate to another
city. I want to live in a community where there is diversity, where
all of the homes and trees are not the same. We don't need more
concrete sidewalks, and for family recreation and sports, we have the
beaches and the two parks that already exist, Pelican Veterans. We
don't need no more parks.
My family and I enjoy riding around and admiring the different
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people, the different landscapes. They -- we've seen how, through the
years, the Naples Park residents have beautified their community on
their own. We don't need an outside plan to tell us that it's in our best
interest to improve our homes.
They, they being my homeowner friends here and I, don't need
any homeowners association made up a few members, telling the
majority of us what to do. As a matter of fact, none of my real estate
legal documents stated the fact that I bought into a gated community
where I was going to be represented by a small group of people.
I bought -- there is only one legal representation on my behalf,
and that is you, Mr. Halas, the one I voted for. That's the only legal
representation that I have on my behalf.
I bought this property in June of 1989. It's a townhouse with
attached duplex. It sits on four lots. So you can see what it's going to
do to me financially, and I am not, despite what you've heard, I am
not a particular slum lord. The tenants that still -- there is one tenant
that has lived on our property one month longer than I have owned
that property. His rent has not gone up.
Now, to you, to some of you, that doesn't make good business
sense not to raise the rent, but to me, money is not equivalent to
being a good neighbor. The gentleman has been a great friend to our
family, a good role model to my two sons. He has been their friend,
their brother, their uncle, and at times, their grandfather.
Are you going to force me to eradicate this 14 year relationship
because of this restoration plan? Do you think that it's the right thing
for me to do to pass this assessment on to the tenant?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I have to ask you to wrap up, sir.
MR. RODRIGUES: I've have been here since eight o'clock this
morning. Can you give me a little more time, please?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I've been here before that, and I want
to hear from your neighbors.
MR. RODRIGUES: Let me conclude with this. Let me
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conclude with this. Okay?
This ballot is only fair, in my humble opinion, if it's an up and
down vote, and if you put a subjective question on there, you've
mined the whole vote. I ask you, I plead with you, for my family my
family's sake, I don't want to relocate. I don't want to pick up my
roots here. I want to stay here, and I ask you, if you do pass this -- to
go towards a ballot, that it's an up and down, no suggestive
questioning, and I am against this plan. Thank you very much.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Carole DeStef-- how about
you say it? She is going to be followed by Jeannie Darbyson.
MS. DISTEFANO: Good afternoon, commissioners. I'm a
property owner also, and I'm going to give you my sad tale of woe.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Your name for the record, please.
MS. DISTEFANO: Carole DiStefano.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
MS. DISTEFANO: I'm sorry. My mother passed away two
years ago. I went to buy her property. I got siblings to settle the
estate. When she died in 2001, her taxes were like $900. With the
reassessment and me remortgaging the house, I'm paying $2,600 a
year already.
Now going into Dover Kohl's plan, where they give you a
ballpark figure of $10,000 per lot, I'm on two lots. That's $20,000, at
7 percent. Works out to almost $24,000 to be paid back in 20 years.
That's almost another $1,200 on my tax bill. Now, that's close to
$4,200 a year for taxes.
Now, I'm 64 years old. Most of the people in the park are
retired, semi-retired. We're all on fixed incomes. Fortunately, I have
a husband making good money. If I lose my husband, how in the
hell am I going to pay what they want in beautification?
Naples Park is nice the way it is. We don't need somebody
coming in and telling us how to live. We bought that property to live
on our property the way we want to, law abiding citizens. Thank
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June 10, 2003
yOU.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you, ma'am.
MS. FILSON: Jeannie Darbyson, and she will be followed by
Guy Page.
MS. DARBYSON: Hi. I'm Jeanine Darbyson, and I just moved
to Naples a year and a half ago, and I looked at 50 homes in Naples,
50 areas and homes to decide where I wanted to live, and I chose
Naples Park because of the location, and I work in the service
industry, and I'm there to be -- to live in Naples forever, and of
course, it was -- it's still affordable maybe. I'm in a $200,000 home
that's 20 years old, if that's called affordable, and it's only going to go
higher and higher. As this plan goes through, it's going to add more
money to me, and of course, taxes to maintain it, and then you hear
about all of those other taxes coming into it, and how we're going to
pay for eight and a half block to -- for the county to make more
taxes, and that's just going to cause more traffic and more people, and
I thought I bought in a single family community, not like all these
townhouses, and also there's going to be a park right across from
where I live.
I wanted a nice home there, and now there's going to be a park
with possible drugs and gangs, and of course, then there's going to be
more maintenance and taxes on that, and that-- and then in the
future, they're going to be row houses or townhouses, and again,
more taxes.
So definitely, I am against the plan, and I -- I mean, I bought a
solid home in a solid community, I thought, and I wasn't planning on
seeing change, and the people that are coming in there today are
definitely fixing up their homes and making it like a home should be.
And I'm going to read another letter about a woman in the park
as well, and she talks about the money of being 10,000 and so much
money, and so many people in this area are retired or on fixed limited
incomes or in the working class, trying to make ends meet. $10,000,
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June 10, 2003
less 30 percent, is a lot of money to people who just don't have it.
Whoever told the commissioners that the property owners of
Naples Park wanted this type of plan in their community was not
speaking for all of the lot owners, and one thing that really bothers
me is that the so-called improvements are being done on county
property. Why do the owners have to pay for the improved county
property?
And I would just like to help push out the Dover Kohl project. I
cannot-- and I would like to, again, voice my opinion. I mean, it's
America, and I just want a yes or a no vote. I think it's too confusing,
again, with the way, and if some people like this or that or it gets too
confusing, people are not going to fill it out. So yes or no or monies
involved as well. Thank you.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Guy Page. He will be
followed by Suzanne Dennis, and she will be followed by Marie
Sourbeer.
MR. PAGE: I'm a retired Boston police lieutenant. The reason I
mention that is because I'll give you some of the reasons I'm against
these plans.
You're going to have tree-lined streets. I have these blown up.
That's eight and a half street. Well, in the Boston area, the Boston
common and the public garden, they took down all of the trees near
the sidewalk, and they took down all the bushes in the '50s when I
was a patrolman because people were getting mugged. If you line
every tree -- every street in Naples Park with trees, you've got to put
a light every 50 feet, but once it gets dark, you're going to get
mugged, and now this young lady just mentioned about the parks. I
have these here blown up. Six to eight parks. They don't tell you
where the land is going to come from, how many houses they have to
take out, and the third or fourth house will face this way. Where's
the garage going to be to get your car in? Okay.
Now, I did this in the last two days. You can't see it good
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June 10, 2003
enough from here, probably. Those are the avenues. That's eight and
a half street. That's 41. How much room you need to put this in, just
between two avenues. Right here, I made ten squares between 91
and 92. To get the width of this, at a minimum 250 feet, you need to
take out ten houses each block.
Now, if they took out ten houses, and my house is the eleventh
one, I don't want the alley for the trucks next to my window. All
right. I'll let that go now.
I'm going to show you this one here that I blew up. Incidentally,
I bought the book from Laura Larou (sic) or Loretta Larou, which she
will prove, and I said to her, how many pages are in the book. She
said 77. I counted them and numbered them, because I'm a student.
I'm not a high school grad, but I'm a student. There's 178 pages, and
you remember better when you mark down the number of the pages.
This is one of the pages.
They ask different questions in these 12 squares. Do you like
this idea, do you like that idea, do you like the other idea. Yes. All
the ones on the left, you will notice, are 90 percent, 95 percent, 31
percent, until you got to the 12th box, which I numbered it number
12.
Ability to pay. Six people were asked -- no, six people were
asked to pay zero; 13 people were asked, they pay $50; 22 were
asked, they pay a hundred; 35,200; 26, 300; six undecided. That's
98 people were asked, but for how many years would you be paying
this, they don't say.
In my experience as a Boston police officer, every place we had
a lot of trees near the sidewalk, we had to take them down. I was in
two of the toughest divisions up there as a sergeant, and later as a
lieutenant.
Thank you for listening.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you very much, sir.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Suzanne Dennis. Okay.
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June 10, 2003
Marie Sourbeer. She will be followed by Susan--
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Baraban.
MS. FILSON: That's it.
MS. SOURBEER: I don't know what time of the day it is. I've
been here since forever. I came here after working with the Sheriffs
Department all morning with the Cool School, Cool Club, or
whatever. I had a great time.
But my name is Marie Sourbeer. I live in 100 -- 700 block on
100th Avenue in Naples Park, and if you'll please excuse me, I have
one heck of a cold.
I've been here for 35 years, so can you imagine and picture what
Naples Park was when I came. I have pictures where there wasn't a
tree on that place. Now, we're having people, like the lady said, cut
down trees, because it's overgrown with trees, which is a wonderful
thing, I guess.
People wanted to know, why would you move way out there.
The city limits were down where Tamiami Ford used to be, but I
think that's longer than some of you are old.
Over the last 35 years in Naples Park, we have had water. We
have had sewage installed. We have had lights installed, and we paid
for every bit of that improvement. Every bit of it was put to us on
our taxes. We didn't have MSTUs then, but we paid for them.
Now, after you commissioners have your planning department
and the commissioners, code environment and so forth and so on,
have allowed these humongous homes on a 50 foot lot, you're telling
us we've got a drainage problem. Where do you think the water is
going to go if you put -- build something concrete on a 50-foot lot.
There are supposed to be ordinances that say you have to have
seven and a half feet, that would be 15 feet between properties. I
don't think you're going to find that anymore, and yet it has been not
observed when the people go out and inspect those properties.
You don't need to spend one more dime on this Dover Kohl
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June 10, 2003
study. I wouldn't spend 25,000 cents to have a vote put out to these
people. Put that money where it belongs. Hire some code
enforcement people so that they -- that's what you tell us, the reason
things happen like they do is because there's not enough people there
to enforce the codes. You don't have a big enough staff.
So that's what I would please ask you to do, not even spend one
more penny on this Dover Kohl study. Put it on a shelf for 25 years.
Thank you.
We're going to wait after this next speaker until I
MR. MUDD:
get a quorum back.
MS. FILSON:
COMMISSIONER FIALA:
MR. MUDD: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER FIALA:
quorum.
MS. FILSON: I know.
up next.
The next speaker is going to be Susan Baraban.
Shall we wait right here?
We have to wait until we have a
I'm just going to let them know who is
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay.
MS. FILSON: And after Ms. Baraban will be Joseph Squizzero.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'm sorry. We're waiting, aren't
we?
MR. MUDD: Yes, ma'am.
commissioners are on the dias.
We have to wait until three
We have a quorum. Ladies and gentlemen, if I can get you to
hold it down, please.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I was listening.
MS. BARABAN: First of all, I'd like to say thank you for being
able to speak today, and I know that you're all, you've been here a
long time, and I'm sure you're quite tired, so I'm grateful for your
attention.
My name is Susan Baraban, and I bought a house in Naples Park
seven months ago. I looked at various areas. Pelican Bay was one of
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June 10, 2003
the ones I looked at, and I looked at several of those types of
environments, and the reason I did that was because I had no idea
that communities such as Naples Park still existed. And what I mean
by that, and the reason that I actually bought a house there, was
because it's a community that has diversity. It's a community that is
multi-ethnic. It's an independent community, and it's a dynamic
community.
Does it need improvement.9 Yes, it does, but I'm sure that the
residents of Naples Park together can help to suggest what needs to
be done in Naples Park.
My greatest fear for this Dover Kohl plan is that Naples Park
will turn into a Pelican something, and I don't mean that just to be
funny. I mean that because that is my fear, and that's not the kind of
community that I bought into, and that's not the kind of involvement,
because I want to be involved in the community I live in, and that's
not the kind of community that I want to live in.
And I just want to say one thing, and that is that I take umbrage
with the term, blighted. I would not have bought property in a
blighted community. I bought property in a community that might
need to be improved, but I'm not buying into a blighted community.
So I just want to register any protest to that term, blighted.
And I want to end by saying that Commissioner Fiala said
earlier, referred to God, and I want to say that if this cause that we
have here is just, then I ask God for a bit of justice. Thank you very
much.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Next speaker?
MS. FILSON: Joseph Squizzero. David Driapsa.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Yes.
MS. FILSON: He will be followed by Vera Fitz-Gerald.
MR. DRIAPSA: Mr. Chairman, Commissioners, David Driapsa
is my name. I'm here to speak in favor of Naples Park community
character plan. Our legal right to enact zoning laws is derived from
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June 1 O, 2003
federal and state constitutional rights, which include the right to
regulate the use of private property, if done to protect the health,
safety, morals and general welfare of the public.
Florida growth management requires a local government to
encourage planned community growth. As part of this growth
management process, community planning attempts to regulate
growth, as required, to achieve four basic goals; one, to plan future
land uses that allow the highest and best use of the maximum number
of properties; two, to reduce the possibility that a particular type of
land use may cause loss of value to the neighboring properties; three,
to reduce present and future growth costs that must be borne by the
taxpayers; and four, [o create an optimal social and economic
environment as a result of community growth.
A community can choose between success and failure. Lack of
a growth management plan is a sure path to failure. A good
community character plan creates adequate legal and administrative
institutions for the control of private land development. Leaving the
important decisions about the timing of development, its location,
and its design in private hands violates good sense. Thus our fair
growth enables property owners to misuse their land without regard
to the impact on the community.
American urban history shows that good communities, those
that are beautiful, as well as safe and efficient, only arise when its
citizens assume the obligation for their own destiny, and set in place
adequate and appropriate community plans.
The value of my property has doubled since I moved to Naples
Park. I certainly believe it will be prudent to reinvest a portion of
that increase into improving the community in which I make my
home.
I favor the Naples Park community character plan, and I
encourage you to send out the ballot.
I would like to say on the benefit of my neighbors for whom this
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June 10, 2003
creates great hardship, is that you will consider reverse mortgage
payment so the money they have to spend to improve this could be
taken from the increase in value when they sell the property.
I, for one, would be willing to pay more up front to help them to
help my community.
Thank you for your -- this opportunity to speak.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Vera Fitz-Gerald, she will be
followed by Robert Wilson.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: I'm Vera Fitz-Gerald, and man, do I have
a lot of power. I never knew it.
I want to tell you that I have never read such garbage and so
many lies that have been published in the Naples Park-- Naples
Daily News as in the last few weeks. CHAIRMAN HENNING: No.
THE SPEAKER: It's unbelievable. We don't have 45 members
in the property owners in Naples Park. We have about 400 paid up
members. Then we have a lot of people -- you see, these people
believe in free speech, if they're speaking. CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: They say that this group or that -- chose
to take advantage of the planning process, didn't represent them, but
they just stayed at home and watched TV or whatever they do, I don't
know, but now they're here, this handful of loud, the mob violence,
or the mob mentality is here saying, they represent Naples Park.
They're saying they have 75 percent. Listen, if you believe that, I got
a bridge in Brooklyn you might want to look at, and they sure don't
represent me, and they don't represent hundreds of people that live --
As Mr. Schmitt said, this isn't a Dover Kohl -- oh, I took my
glasses off, and I can't see. This isn't a Dover Kohl plan. This was a
Naples Park plan. It came out of--
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Folks, please.
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June 1 O, 2003
MS. FITZ-GERALD: It came out of the Collier County
community plan, and we were featured as a mature neighborhood,
and as -- Mr. Chairman, as you know, because you're working with
that, you know there are a variety of committees that have formed to
implement a lot of those items that were in the community character
plan, and a group of very concerned, educated, intelligent people got
together and went to implement this or tried to find funding to
implement it, and to get a plan in place.
They never said, you're going to do this. The Dover Kohl just
listened to what the community said, the people who took time to go
there, and they went back and they put the input into a plan. It's the
Naples Park plan.
I've heard that Dover Kohl is going to do the construction.
Dover Kohl is going to plant the trees and skim off all this profit.
Dover Kohl doesn't do anything like that. They just plan and they do
what you say.
We have a lot of out-of-town people who don't have the benefit
of save our homes or homestead. They want this. I know that one of
the people in the property owners of Naples Park put together a
whole package of comments that we've received by e-mail, and I
think she sent them to you. Sally Barker had absolutely nothing to
do with this, absolutely nothing.
The -- what else did I want to say. Oh, yes, the price --
CHAIRMAN HENN1NG: Please.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: The price is between 6,000 and 6,500.
It's not 10,000. They've grabbed 10,000 and gone running with it
like a hungry dog.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I have to ask you to wrap up.
MS. FITZ-GERALD: I know you do, but please, this is a
Democracy. We have the right to vote. Let us vote on the various
items in the plan as the county agreed. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Next speaker.
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June 10, 2003
MS. FILSON: Next speaker is Robert Wilson. He will be
followed by Steve Cosgrove.
CHAIRMAN HENN1NG: He's not here to speak. Thank you.
MS. FILSON: Steve Cosgrove?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: You give it to the county manager.
Thank you.
MS. FILSON: Mr. Cosgrove? He will be followed by Chris
Carpenter, who will be your last speaker.
MR. COSGROVE: Good evening, Commissioners. Thank you
or letting us speak today. I represent only myself. I have been to
some of the Dover Kohl meetings. I've spoken with some of you
personally.
I'm against the plan right now. I know -- it's my understanding
that today's commissioner meeting, the agenda is just to discuss
whether or not to spend the $25,000. I also understand that after the
vote, if we go to a vote, that we will have opportunity later for public
input before you guys pass whether we do any of these, is that
correct, before we--
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I'll tell you, being an elected official,
if you guys vote on something, and we do just the opposite, we're
going to hang ourselves.
MS. COSGROVE: That's my other question also, because in
the past, in 1996, we know that you have the authority to do this
without the vote. You do - we already have an MSTU established. I
know you have the political smarts to not do it, but the last
commission did do it. They put the first section of the water, the
storm drainage on us --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: We will invite you back to give us
some guidance on what the vote said. MR. COSGROVE: All right.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And interpret it for us.
MR. COSGROVE: That's fine. And that's the only thing that I
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would ask for you today. I want to thank everybody for doing their
work. Mr. Schmitt, you guys, Dover Kohl, they did what they were
supposed to, but the only reason you should spend $25,000 today is if
you're going to go with the plan.
Mr. Henning, I know that you spoke on Jeff Lytle's one-on-one
this past week, and you said that you'd go with the will of the people;
is that correct?
Ms. Fiala, how do you feel about that? Do you feel you would
go with the vote or do you have your own--
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, I would always go with the
vote. Why would you vote against what the will of the people --
MR. COSGROVE: That's my opinion also. I'm just going by
the past Collier County Commissioners.
Mr. Halas, what do you think about that?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I believe this plan is for the people
of Naples Park, and however they come out with the vote, whether
it's for or against, that's how it's going to stand.
MR. COSGROVE: Okay. Thank you very much for your
honesty. I just want to say then, you should vote for yes to send out
the poll, make it as easy as possible for the people. It will be worth
your $25,000, because you'll know for sure that we do not want this
plan. The majority of the people will come back and tell you that
they do not want this plan, and if I'm wrong, then I would like to
come up and work with you to get the plan going correctly, but
please let the people vote. Everybody's vote should count, and I think
the absentee ballots, if they're not sent in, should still count, because
this is property rights. This isn't voting for a commissioner. This is
property owner's rights, that a no vote -- an absent vote should be
counted as a no, not just how many people can get riled up enough to
come in and vote. So please consider that when you send out the
ballots.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: What is your name, sir?
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June 10, 2003
MR. COSGROVE: Steve Cosgrove. I live in Naples Park since
1989, and I work in Naples Park.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
MR. COSGROVE: Thank you.
MS. FILSON: Your final speaker--
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The gentleman whose name was
pronounced wrong, and he didn't hear it.
MS. FILSON: What is your name, sir?
MR. SQUIZZERO: My name is Squizzero. Just the way it's
spelled. How did you pronounce it?
MS. FILSON: You're our next speaker.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Your name for the record, sir? Will
you stand right up to the mike?
MR. SQUIZZERO: Squizzero.
MS. FILSON: I thought that's how I pronounced it.
Our last speaker will be Chris Carpenter, right after you.
MR. SQUIZZERO: My name is Joe Squizzero. I live on 108th
Avenue North, comer of 7th and 108th. I've lived there for 30 years.
Now, I've paid for everything that -- any improvement went on
in that park. Now, I'm against this plan all together, because I don't
see as it's going to help anything, and I feel the people in the park are
looking to get their property -- their property assessments up high
enough so they can make dollars and move out, but we're a -- we are
a community, working people and retired people. We can't afford
this program. And if you vote yes to go along with it, I'm going to
go to court, and I'm going to sue you people. That's it. That's what.
MS. FILSON: Your final speaker is Chris Carpenter.
MS. CARPENTER: Hi. I'm Chris Carpenter, and I own a
duplex in Naples Park, but I live in Vanderbilt Beach.
First, I'd like to thank Commissioner Halas for moving this item
from the consent agenda. I think that meant a lot to people in Naples
Park. Thank you.
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June 1 O, 2003
I'd like to suggest that if you do decide to do this ballot, I would
like to suggest that you delay it in order to gather more information
on drainage in Naples Park. Drainage is a key item in the Naples
Park community plan, but drainage in Naples Park doesn't just affect
Naples Park. It also affects Vanderbilt Beach, and people in
Vanderbilt Beach are unhappy with the drainage into Vanderbilt
Lagoon.
In looking through this plan, in the section on drainage, the
recommended drainage system has to do with a great inlet skimmer
box, and it says in here that the alternative is subject to further
review and approval from state agencies and may experience
resistance for approval. Well, that kind of set off a little red flag with
me. So I called a county representative who told me that that meant
that it was not DEP approved, and that concerned me.
Also, regarding drainage, I understand that there's an Army
Corps of Engineers study for Vanderbilt Lagoon that's being
considered. We might want to wait for the input from that, because
the drainage in Naples Park does affect Vanderbilt Beach.
Well, I'm saying that I think it would be a good reason to delay
to get more information.
How am I doing on time?
MS. FILSON: Fifty seconds.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: You're running out of time.
MS. CARPENTER: I want to thank you for the time and
attention and the money that you've spent on Naples Park. I wish
that the ad hoc group that had come to you and asked you to do this
study had done their homework a little bit more and found out what
more people wanted before coming to you, and if they had, I think
that a lot of the unpleasantness that we've been experiencing could
have been avoided, but I do appreciate your efforts. So thank you.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Fiala, you had
Something.
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June 1 O, 2003
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. I had a few comments. I
wrote them down, and being that the other guys aren't here, I'll try to
skim through them.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: You can take Commissioner
Coletta's time. Please continue.
MS. FILSON: But not Coyle's. That's too long.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: That's for Commissioner Halas.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I worked focus long before I was
ever on this commission, and as we were trying to form a community
plan. Let me tell you, it had nothing to do with Collier County
government. For those who say that it did, I didn't know a soul in
government, and they weren't on that group. So I just wanted to say
that.
Also, a plan has to begin someplace. You're saying about the
people who started it. Well, I live in a little area here called East
Naples, and there's a lot of things we want to do here, but it all starts
with a vision. Somebody has to come up with it, and then they tell
their friends about it, and then they say, well, what can we do, as it
happened here. They said, well, let's see if we can't -- but what they
were trying to do was get all of you in on this plan. They started
with an idea, and they said, let's get a planner, and then the planner
then invited everybody, and I know, because we had to go out and
hand deliver a lot of those invitations to everybody in the
neighborhood, and they said, come in and let us -- help us to form a
plan.
Nobody foisted a plan on you. You guys were the ones that
came up with the ideas to put on the plan. Everybody was asked--
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Please, please.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'm sorry. I listened to all of you.
Now you can listen to me.
And so they were looking for ideas. We know that many people
attended many of these meetings. And so I just want to say, a lot of
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you have pointed fingers at us, saying that we're the bad guys. Heck,
we weren't even a part of that. I mean, we didn't start it and we
weren't on any of your committees or anything, and you can't point a
finger at the people who came up with the vision. We all should be
visionaries.
Going on, it takes an -- oh, let me say next, Dover Kohl and our
staff, they only assisted. They didn't start the process. We called
them and said, would you assist us in putting a plan together. That
was in response -- I took little notes while each person was talking,
and the plan has a menu of selections. When each person says, vote
against the plan, well, which part of the plan. I mean, it's a whole
menu of suggestions, and if you don't want to do anything to your
neighborhood, we'll poll you on that. If you want to leave it as is,
hey, I want to tell you, that's great with me, because I'll take the
money and use it in my neighborhood, and that would be wonderful,
and you know what, we don't mind what you say. We don't care if
you want it all down the drain. That's fine. It's -- we just want to
hear what you have to say. We want to give you that process. We
want to give you the ability to say, well, I do want code enforcement
in here, or I do want extra sheriff's deputies in here, or I don't want
anybody in here, but we want to give you that opportunity.
Let's see. And somebody said something about forming a CRA,
like we were trying to push it down your throat. That isn't something
that we try -- you said that, pushed down anybody's throat. Do you
know what happens with a CRA? We lose tax dollars. Why would
we ever want to do that? I mean, in fact, we've been talking about
never forming another CRA, because the taxpayers lose the dollars.
So don't believe that for a minute.
Somebody said it was a four-page summary. If we don't even
know the questions that are going to be on it, or what form of ballot
we're going to use, how do we know it's a four-page summary that
people are going to vote on?
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June 10, 2003
There are things that cost nothing. What's wrong with looking
at a menu of choices and voting on each. I agree with somebody who
came up here and said, let's make it really simple, yes or no.
Absolutely right. You don't want ever want it to be convoluted. You
want to ask the question and you want to ask the direct question, you
know, not a fancy worded question. It has to be a question that you
can answer yes or no to. I like that idea, and I think that's absolutely
right.
By the way, somebody said they don't want to be referred to as
blighted. Did you know 5th Avenue was referred to as blighted? For
all of you that have lived here a long time, you know that.
And somebody else said something about parks or a place for
drugs and gangs. I thought parks were a place for families and a
sense of neighborhood. And you know what, I'm a very -- I strongly
support parks, strongly support parks. So I don't appreciate that.
Let's see. And also, somebody said, not only vote yes or no, but
what are the dollars involved. I think that's an important part of a
question. Do you want code enforcement officers at how much, no
cost. Then you can know what you're voting on and how much it
will cost you, and I think you ought to have the right to do that, and
with that, I thank you for this time.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: See what you did? You really got
her wound up. You really got her going. Commissioner Halas.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I would just like to say, I want to
thank everyone that came out today and endured a long process
before your problems or your concerns were addressed.
One thing that really concerns me in the short period of time
that I've been a county commissioner, and I can't believe how much
animosity this plan has caused. There's been a lot of misinformation
that's been out in the neighborhoods, and I feel so bad about this,
because this is a community that should be working together to figure
out the best way that they can address some of their issues, whether
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they be drainage, whether they be traffic, whether they be about
concerns about how they're going to get their children back and forth
across the street to a school. And this is part of what the study was all
supposed to be about, and it got so far blown out of proportion that I
just don't know the correct way to even handle this anymore, and yes,
I think there was some homework that needed to be done ahead of
time, and yes, then we might have -- we might have -- did not take
the right steps to make sure that every person was notified, but I
really believe that the majority of people that got involved in this
program and process really believed in what they were trying to do.
There was no -- Dover Kohl is not here to take your property.
Dover Kohl is not going to build an eight and a half avenue. These
were all ideas that came out of a brainstorming session. Dover Kohl
is nothing more than a consultant group that basically called upon
some of the residents that got involved in this process, and they sat
down and said, what do you envision of what would you like to see,
and so it's like, if you were a young child and you sat down and you
started to day dream. This is all that took place, and these ideas and
concepts were put down on paper.
Then they were brought forth again for you people to look at,
and then this is when the process just got out of hand, and I feel so
bad about what took place in this community, and I feel that the end
result has to be a vote for the citizens. If you vote it down, that's the
end of it, but there may be some ideas in there, that when they --
when the ballot is finally put together and we have a group of
citizens that look at this ballot to see if it's very simple, and if it
addresses some issues or some concerns, it's a yes and no, and that's
it, and what -- that's what we need to find out, because I know there's
a vast majority of you people that spent all day here stating what you
felt on this, but there's also other people here that aren't present that
are in your community, and they would also like to have their voice
heard too. Thank you very much for coming.
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June 10, 2003
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I want to straighten out one rumor
before we go. The gentleman sitting next to the county manager, his
name is not Dover Kohl.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HENN1NG: So whoever spread that rumor, let
me stop it right know.
But Steve Cosgrove, I think, got it right, is he represents
himself, himself, and I've heard so many people say they represent
other people. They might represent ideas of those other people, but
they don't represent those other people. There's one person in this
room that represents the people in Naples Park, and that's
Commissioner Halas, and you have some other representation that
we call governor or president or so on and so forth, but nobody
represents themselves here but themselves. Ideas, yes, I agree with
that.
The -- one of the people that got up and said they represented a
thousand people or belonged to an association of a thousand people,
might represent the same view, but it's my understanding that we
have 3,000 homeowners or 3,000 property owners in Naples Park.
MR. SCHMITT: A little over, about 3200.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: So how are we going to know what
the majority wants unless we do ask them, give them a menu to vote.
Thank you. I've heard you speak, and I was very courteous to you,
and I ask you to be very courteous to me.
So I want to do what the majority of the people want to do in
Naples Park, and it's very important to me, on Commissioner Halas'
recommendations, because this guy pulled this off of the consent
agenda and put it on a regular agenda so that you could have a voice,
and all we want is for your neighbors to have a voice, and that's not
too much to ask, and be involved in the process.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I make a motion that we move this
-- that we advance the monies forward to come up with a ballot.
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June 1 O, 2003
MR. SCHMITT: Actually, it's a transfer of funds. It's already
money that's budgeted. It's in an account for other contracted
services, and it's a transfer of funds into this contract, or at least into
this project. So it's not--
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Mr. Halas makes a motion to
approve.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Fiala seconds the
motion. All in favor of the motion, signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN HENNING:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING:
Opposed?
The motion carries 3-0.
MR. SCHMITT: Mr. Chairman, just for clarification, we will
bring the ballot back for public view. We will involve the public,
and I personally really would like to apologize to the residents of
Naples Park, because I believe -- I think we, as staff, failed in at least
ensuring that everybody had the truth in this. As hard as we worked,
and Commissioner Halas, you know, you were with me for the
majority of this project, but obviously we failed somewhere in
getting the information out and getting the truth out to the public so
they could at least assess the real stow. I'll commit to you that we'll
do better in developing the ballot to ensure, number one, that it can
be understood, number two, that they have a choice.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I know if I lived there, I would
want to be able to have my voice heard through a ballot, and I would
really feel like people didn't listen to me if I wasn't able to vote. So
I'm glad we carried that vote.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Do you need a break? I do. Where
are we at, Mr. County Manager?
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June 10, 2003
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Can I just take-
Item #1 IA
PERKINS REGARDING VARIOIJS TOPICS OF INTEREST
MR. MUDD: Mr. Chairman, we have finished through ten. We
are now on to public comment on general topics.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: We're going to have to hold for just
a minute.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Why don't we wait until the great
folks from Naples Park clear the room, and thanks for being here. I'll
come down and talk to you.
MR. MUDD: The mike's off.
(A recess was taken.)
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Everybody take their seats, please.
First speaker?
MS. FILSON: Our first speaker is A1 Perkins. He will be
followed by Bob Krasowski --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: How many speakers do we have?
MS. FILSON: We have three.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Thanks for staying with us,
Mr. Perkins.
MR. PERKINS: A1 Perkins, Bell Meade group, but you
probably already know that.
Ladies and gentlemen, you people at home particular-- Katie,
where are you? Get on the ball.
Hey, I helped to get this stuff put in here, and I want it used on
behalf of all of the people.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: But I'm sure Katie heard you, too,
bless her heart.
MR. PERKINS: I'm sure she did.
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June 10, 2003
And commissioners, well, you've been the whipping boards here
this afternoon. That's obvious, you know, but one thing I do want to
say about you people, you have tolerated a bunch of people who have
damn good right to get irritated about something they didn't know
about until after the fact, and by getting the message out, they
showed up to voice their opinion. This is so important, it isn't funny.
You can jump in my face anytime you want to but don't get to
my back. Tom and I have known each other for years. Donna, I
don't even remember when I met you for the first time. It's been that
long. I used to have dark hair, right? Frank, he's a newcomer on the
block, but anyhow that's not what I'm getting at.
I want to make some points, because my three minutes was too
short earlier, and I don't come in here to be a nice person and to take
and butter everybody up. The South Florida Water Management, in
particular Miller Boulevard Extension, which is an evacuation route
from Marco Island and Goodlette, now, I've been yapping about this
for over ten years, because this is to save people's lives.
Now, if the South Florida Water Management would like to take
and see people dead, that's their business. If the Wildlife Federation
wants to see people dead, that's their business. The Conservancy
wants to see them dead, that's their business, but they're all here with
their hand in my pocket, holding my credit cards, and they're going
to take and spend as much money as they can, and most of it goes
into their pocket. You people don't know this, but the Conservancy
and the Wildlife Federation, and the Audubon, they all work on
commissions of the sale.
The Conservancy, the CEO is paid $103,000 plus percs. The
Nature Conservancy sold $5.5 million worth of oil from their oil
wells. Then they turn right around and say, hey, the environment,
the environment. I wanted to know whether or not they sold it to
North Korea. very important. It could be. But anyhow.
Now comes the important part. Standby. Don't you people get
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June 1 O, 2003
suckered into entering into collusion to steal the people's property by
Jeb Bush's cabinet or especially the embedded crooks of the DEP,
and if you don't believe me, you people weren't at the meeting. Let
me repeat that. You people have not been at the meetings. I have.
Every damn one of them. And let me try to tell you something and
you won't know about it.
Do you know that when Clarence Cheers (phonetic) came in
here and gave you $45,000, was he playing Santa Claus? He was
promoting himself and the war. Whose money was it? If he's got
that money to give away, then he's overcharging the people.
What you don't know. They gave $170,000 to the DEP from the
South Florida Water Management. Whoa. That's double funding.
That's misuse of public funds. Given this John above, $45,000, that's
misuse of funds. He has his own budget that you people either
approve or don't approve.
Now we have a lot of money that is being filtered through, but --
and you people at home, you ought to listen, the catch to it is, is not
in the transaction as it is in the administrative services of 14.5
percent for their pocket. Now, nobody says what the amount is.
In the case of the Nature Conservancy, it was 14.5 and 3 percent
profit. Whoa. Since when does a charity run on profit.
Now, I'm going to take and push this just a little bit. Okay?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Now I have to ask you to wrap up.
MR. PERKINS: I will wrap up, but I want to make sure,
because see, you're dealing with my money, their people's money,
everybody else's money. Very important.
You need to pay attention to the words. First of all, there's gold
in the gate. Fraud, perjury, collusion, malicious process, asking what
it's all about, legal malpractice, okay, extortion. Better known as
mitigation. Pay particular attention to where the crooks are because
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Mr. Perkins --
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June 10, 2003
MR. PERKINS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Please wrap up.
MR. PERKINS: Right. No matter what you say, corruption is
still with us big time. With that, I'll quit.
By the way, find a place to put the new airport out in the Bell
Meade.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: What new airport?
Item #1 lB
BOB KRASOWSKI REGARDING ZERO WASTE
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Bob Krasowski, and he will
be followed by your final speaker, Michael Saadeh.
MR. KRASOWSKI: Good evening, Commissioners. Nice to
see you again.
I'm here to speak on a few loose ends. It seems to be my topic
of the millennium here in regards to zero waste, but I'd like to make
an observation in regard to some of the comments Mr. Perkins has
just made.
You know, it seems that environmentalism has become so
lucrative that it's attracted the interest of a lot of people looking to
make money. So what used to be kind of an idealistic, people like
squirrels and fish and birds, is concentrated into an enormous
business interest.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Kind of like trash.
MR. KRASOWSKI: Huh?
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Kind of like trash?
MR. KRASOWSKI: Including-- yeah, trash. Well, people
deserve to get money, be paid for the service they provide, but
sometimes it gets way out of hand.
An article I read recently identified the fact that the Nature
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Conservancy, the big organization, is now -- their board of directors
is comprised of head CEOs from the oil companies, and there's this
big blowout in the environmental community about multiple use of
lands, where oil exploration was allowed on protected lands and
killed all of these endangered birds and stuff.
So -- I used to think A1 was like anti-environmental, and way
out there, but the reality is he's in tune with a lot of things. So I'm
using up my time, right? But that's very valid.
Here's what I'm about. I just dropped off to you, the county
attorney, Mr. Mudd, some highlighted information from that agenda
of 6/26/01 where you folks voted to go ahead and put out an RFP for
zero waste. Now, I'm going to have to check a few meetings after
that, because I had a conversation with Mr. Mudd, and he said, well,
look at these other things, there might be something in there where
that direction was rescinded or something, so I'll have to look before
I shoot off my mouth, right, but I do want to check that out.
But I did want to take the opportunity to show you, and if you
could, when he got a chance, read these highlights. It shows that I, in
my presentation of what we submitted as a scenario of ideas, of a
scenario that could lead us to a better understanding of what might
lead to the county's program on waste handling, and remember this,
that all of these scenarios were offered as things that we would
continue to pursue or drop. So the waste to energy, incineration, the
composting of all of the municipal solid waste were dropped as
things we wanted to continue and pursue, but we, on our flow chart
that was included in that presentation, which I have here on the board
here, now, on the illuminator or whatever you call the screen, we
included the zero waste strategy, but we also included the organic
waste processing that was exemplified by the CCI Canadian
compost, but I made it clear, and it's noted in those minutes that that
was an option to be removed or kept in after we looked at it, but that
wasn't an intrinsic part of the zero waste strategy. So by negating
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June 10, 2003
CCI and getting rid of that, or the FIRCO (phonetic) option, we were
told that FIRCO would only handle big logs. What it came down to
when George Umus (phonetic) went and visited FIRCO, they also
handled wood chips, and you had to chip them up. So if you have to
chip them up, you just compost them. Why spend the money on a
facility like that.
So what I'm suggesting to you is that what we presented, what
was then changed into this, by Malcolm Pirnie, which shows 180 to
$200 per ton charge for collecting organics, which we balked at.
Then because we balked at it, we had a meeting with Malcolm Pirnie,
Mr. Mudd was there, moderated it, and they withdrew the zero waste
evaluation from the document that was created as a result of that
6/26, but we didn't want them to drop zero waste RFPs.
So what I have here now, which I will work out in greater detail
and bring to you at the next meeting, this is the flow chart that
represents zero waste in a more direct fashion. This is the type of
system that we would like to see you put out an RFP for, put out an
RFP for zero waste so zero waste consultants with experience in zero
waste, these professionals could come, do an evaluation, and provide
us a professional level zero waste option or a maximum diversion
option for the county to use as comparison to a pyrolysis facility type
option, if you ever get there.
Also included in this, and like I said, I'll be back.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I have to ask you to wrap up.
MR. KRASOWSKI: Okay. I'll wrap up right now.
I'll be back with a more detailed thing here, but we have
combinations of using this system, and then temporarily maybe
trucking some of it out, if we have to, if we're squeezed for time, but
I don't think we will be squeezed for time.
How many -- I'm done, but --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: You're out of time, sir.
MR. KRASOWSKI: Here's the -- what Dr. Connet (phonetic)
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June 10, 2003
did, Mr. Mudd mentioned the last time. This is the Halifax plan.
wasn't into CCI.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thanks, Bob.
MR. KRASOWSKI: Okay. Thanks a lot.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: See you next meeting.
He
Item #11C
MICHAEI~ SAADEH REGARDING A VINEYARDS PROJECT
MS. FILSON: Your final speaker is Mr. Michael Saadeh.
MR. SAADEH: Good evening, Commissioners. I'm sorry to
keep you late on a late night already. I'm here to represent Vineyards
Development Corporation, my company, and to address the
grievance that we've encountered during a permit process on a
project in the Vineyards known as Hammock Isles.
Hammock Isles is a single-family neighborhood consisting of
193 lots. That's a very final single family neighborhood in
Vineyards. We have one more multi-family, we'll be done with the
project.
We applied with the county, just to give you a little chronology
of the dates, we applied for the county for a preliminary subdivision
plat, as the process required back in August of 2002. The project
went through multiple revisions. The final revision with the final
comments were due on January the 6th, and at that time was the first
time that the county advised, subsequent to the 6th of January, on the
29th, transportation gave us some comments requesting turn lanes for
the project, which happens to be inside the gate on a private right of
way.
So they were a few weeks behind the deadline on responding to
the project after the third review, the first time they mention the
transportation turn lanes requirements.
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June 10, 2003
We complied with those requirements by the 4th of February,
and by the 21st of February, they released the PSP, which led us to
submit for the final plat, and that was submitted on the 24th. So it
took us only three days from the date of the approval to put in for
final approval, and that's the system. We could not file for final plat
until the original plat was approved.
Then during the process, the county was contemplating this
impact fee ordinance that the county eventually adopted back in
February 5th, and the project, under normal conditions, should have
been permitted regardless before the date came about, but even under
the worst of conditions, the process, as is dictated by the county, and
interpretations that were given to the development community and
DSAC and to everybody who inquired about it, we were told
specifically that any project in the pipeline during this ordinance, if
it's already in the pipeline, it's going to be vested.
We were very surprised to know recently that the project is --
was not considered vested, only because of some technicality on the
language of some sort, and I have had a meeting with Mr. Schmitt,
who advised me he concurs with our position, that the project should
have been, one, reviewed sooner, and to many reasons, whatever it
was, it didn't, and secondly, it should have been vested, but the way
the language or the ordinance was written, it specified final plat
versus preliminary plat, and your system does not allow to file for a
final plat before your preliminary plat is approved.
So physically, we were in the system on August 21 st of last
year, and you adopted your ordinance six months later, in February,
and then somehow we weren't being interpreted properly within the
system.
Mr. Schmitt advised me that he does not have a mechanism
himself or the department of development services does not have a
mechanism to overcome this issue. It had to come to the board, and
that's why we're here today.
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June 1 O, 2003
I'll be happy to entertain any questions that you may have. I
would appreciate your consideration.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Mr. Saadeh, you applied for a site
development plan in August and didn't get it out until January?
MR. SAADEH: That's the first review for the preliminary plat.
We got that -- the last letter came in on the 29th, and that requested
turn lanes, which was not in any part of the original reviews. Then
we complied with that the first week of February, on the 4th, and
then the final review, we were able to file for final plat on the 24th,
and actually now we're ready to be released except to resolve this
issue on the impact fees. So technically, the process is almost ten
months of process.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: So it sounds like what this needs is
the board needs to clarify the action, the previous action that we did?
MR. SCHMITT: For the record, Joe Schmitt, administrator,
community development, environmental services.
Just for clarification, this was not an SDP. This was actually a
preliminary subdivision plat, similar, going to final subdivision plat.
What Mr. Saadeh explained is in fact exactly what happened, but this
was not the impact fee ordinance. It was actually the concurrency
ordinance, 3.15 of the LDC, that says that 50 percent of the
transportation impact fees will be paid upon final approval of the --
of actually issuing of a local development order, and a local
development order, at least from this ordinance, was defined to be the
approval of final -- of a final subdivision plat or the approval of a
SDP, site development plan.
When the ordinance was passed, we set the line in the sand as
actually saying anybody that was in the process for review was
considered to have -- not be impacted by the change in the --
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
MR. SCHMITT: -- land development code.
So if in fact you go down that road, and I just have to caution
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June 10, 2003
the board that if you consider moving that line to be the preliminary
subdivision plat rather than application for final, it may impact a lot
of other applicants, and I need to go back and assess how many other
applicants would be impacted. That's one caution, but two, in this
case, and without bringing out all of the facts, I mean, there's a lot
behind this, and Michael and I both know, but it was frankly in
review, and it was a transportation issue between his staff and Norm
Feder's staff as to what type of improvements would be made, left
turn lane, basically, and it went back and forth for several months.
When the ordinance was passed, this was kind of caught in that
window. If you just want to recognize this action only as having
been considered, then of course, I leave that up to you, but I don't
know, from the legal parameters, you'll have to turn to the county
attorney, but there are some legal pitfalls, but in essence, I did agree
with Michael. I think he submitted it in August, staff diligence and
due diligence, that should have been approved, but there are some
disagreements, and there were disagreements amongst his staff and
my -- well, his staff and Norm Feder's staff. I'm ultimately
responsible for the process.
That basically just got caught in that harass of going back and
forth about the issue.
MR. SAADEH: Joe, in fairness, please, Commissioner, the first
time that transportation mentioned the turn lane, and I have
documentation that will prove all of that, if you would like to, I'll
send it to your offices, was the 29th of January, was the very first
time transportation mentioned anything like a turn lane, since
August, the year before.
So after the 29th, my engineer, who works for me on staff, made
a call and decided to agree to it and legally I can give you 20 legal
opinions saying we didn't have to agree to that. We agreed to it on
the 4th of February. It took us five days. So the recollection on the
transportation side, not on Mr. Schmitt's part, the recollection of the
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June 1 O, 2003
transportation staff is a little bit distorted as far as their time lines.
The turn lane was only brought up on January 29th, after four or five
months of the process had started. We realize that these guys can
hold a gun to your head, that they've done on previous times on many
other projects, the transportation department did, so we decided to
bite the bullet and accept the condition they put on us. It took us four
days to accept that condition.
So, you know, I would totally reject that argument that we
delayed the process. I mean, they controlled the process from A to Z,
and we were just in the system back in August of last year. That's a
fact, and I don't think anybody can contest that.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I don't think that we can make a
decision tonight. So if I could recommend that we can get this on our
next agenda, June 24th, to resolve this issue. Commissioner, do you
agree with that?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah, I'd like to get all of the facts
together.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Sure.
MS. FILSON: It's kind of hard to just do that now.
MR. SAADEH: Okay.
MR. SCHMITT: The only thing I can offer, and that I did offer
to Mr. Saadeh, was that he could pay the impact fees under protest,
and in fact, we would hold that. That would certainly be -- we would
have at least the collateral or hold the application, and we could issue
the approval of the final subdivision plat, and he could get his
certificate and proceed with his construction, which, of course, is
certainly he doesn't want to delay that, and we would support any
type of effort to do that, but I do not have the legal authority to waive
any type of payment until the resolution. If the board chooses to do
that, I don't know even know if that's in your prerogative.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I don't think it's a waiver. It's a
decision that we need to take a look at and get the facts and you're
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June 1 O, 2003
offering him up something in the interim until June 24th. MR. SCHMITT: Right.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: But we're going to hear this item on
June 24th. Thank you.
MR. SAADEH: Thank you, Commissioners. Thank you very
much.
MR. MUDD: Before you go, Joe, can you conditionally
approve --
MR. SCHMITT: Yes.
MR. MUDD: Based on the board's decision on the 24th, and
whatever the board decides at that time -- right now, Michael, the
staff is basically going to recommend that we basically recommend
to the board that they -- that you get grandfathered under the old rule
and not the new rule, okay, and so that's the way that, you know, I've
talked to Leo, I've talked to Joe, and that's the way we're going to
come forward on the 24th.
MR. SAADEH: Thank you.
MR. MUDD: What I'd like the board to know is, and I'll direct
Joe, to give him a conditional approval based on the 24th June
decision by the board of county commissioners, and the board of
county commissioners say on that meeting that he applies to the new
rule at that time, Mr. Saadeh really doesn't have much choice in that
juncture.
MR. SAADEH: Within seven days from that time, we will
deliver a cashier's check to you for the amount. MR. MUDD: Okay.
MR. SAADEH: And I'm on record saying that. I don't think
I'm going to skip town over it.
MR. SCHMITT: I'll put stipulations on the approval, that
subject to the outcome of the next board meeting, and he'll make
payment then. That's fine.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Mr. Halas, do you have anything
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June 10, 2003
else?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Just wondering if we revert back
to the -- how am I going to say this. If we revert back to what the
stipulation was before--
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Easy for you to say.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: -- then how is this going to impact
other people that already have put in for the process also.
MR. SCHMITT: We'll have to come back to you as part of the
next board meeting. I'll give you an assessment of how many -- how
many homes are impacted in what stage, because I have to go back
and look and determine how many projects were actually under
review for -- under preliminarily subdivision plat, and just for the
board's sake, we're going to eliminate the preliminary subdivision
plats. We're looking at it, to bring it back to you, in the third cycle,
to eliminate that whole process, and you just submit a final
subdivision plat. It's an old process that, frankly, is outdated, and we
just need to eliminate that step in the review process.
MR. SAADEH: Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Mudd.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Okay. Any more public comments?
Seeing none, county attorney's--
MR. MANALICH: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One note,
which is that I believe that on 10(B), which was the tax amnesty
program, Mr. Mudd, will that not require a resolution number be
reserved for that? Were you envisioning a resolution to be created
for that program?
MR. MUDD: Yeah, we brought it to the board to get their
approval because we have a time line, and then I have to -- I'll draft a
letter to Tallahassee to tell them that the board -- I'm sorry, go ahead.
MR. SCHMITT: The letter has already been done and gone.
MR. MANALICH: I think it would just be a matter of reserving
a resolution number, and that's understood.
Thank you. That's all.
Page 277
June 10, 2003
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
Item #15A
COUNTY MANAGER JIM MUDD REGARDING LETTER FOR
SAIJE OF FI,ORIDA WATER CORPORATION
County manager.
MR. MUDD: Commissioners, just so you know, David was
sitting there earlier. He has something wrong with his eye, and he's
having problems seeing, okay, so that's why he wasn't sitting in
Ramiro's chair. You know, everybody's going, what's going on. He
said, well, he's mentoring Ramiro with the whip.
I have two. The first item is a letter that I wrote to Bill Moss,
and I just wanted to make sure that you knew about it so I can let Bill
go home, because he wanted to be here just in case you had any
questions, and it basically has to do with negotiations for the sale of
the Florida Water Service Cooperation or Corporation, Marco Island,
Marco Shores to the City of Marco Island.
Dear Bill, on June 5th, 2003, I received an E-mail message from
you regarding the City's proposed purchase of the Florida Water
Service Corporation's two systems in Collier County. As you know,
Section 134.369 of the County's code specifies the procedures that
apply to these contempt -- or contemplated sales. The code requires
that an application to the county -- to the Collier County water and
wastewater authority must be accompanied by minimum information
to be taken into account by the County's water and wastewater
authority, which refers a recommended order to the Board of County
Commissioners for the board's final approval. The code specifies
that sales to a government agency shall, absent compelling reasons
against, be approved as a matter of right. The City of Marco Island is
a governmental agency. The procedures that control the county's
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June 10, 2003
approval of these sales will change somewhat if and when a presently
pending bill is enacted into Florida's general law, which staff expects
will occur within the next two to three weeks. Applying the
presently pending bill, staff expects than an application to the Collier
County water and wastewater authority for approval of these
contemplated sales should not take more than 60 days after receipt of
an application for sale approval. I am advised by Bleu Wallace that
staff has no reason to suspect that an application for the county's
approval of the proposed sale to the City of Marco Island will be
disapproved by the authority or by Collier County Board of County
Commissioners. Direct any questions regarding to Bleu Wallace, and
I signed my name to it.
I just wanted you to know that they are a government agency.
They are trying to purchase this thing, and pending that purchase, I
didn't think that the board would have a problem with that sale to a
city within our county.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: This board member doesn't, but I
was told that Bill Moss was here to go to happy hour with Dover
Kohl.
Commissioner Halas, do you have a problem with that?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: No, I don't.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: We already voted for it previously,
so I think you're just reconfirming.
MR. MUDD: He needs a piece of paper to work the process out
through all of the legal ramifications that he must go through, and
Bill, it's signed, ready to go, anytime you want it, before you leave.
Item # 15B
LETTER TO SECRETARY STRUHS REGARDING DONATION
FOR MITIGATION CREDITS
Page 279
June 10, 2003
The next thing is we have to respond, or I have to respond to
Secretary Strews (phonetic) as far as his request for donation. I
mean, it came to us on the 15th of May, and we've gone through the
process. I was a little taken aback that some of the previous
conversations we had had with some folks that presented today didn't
come out with the board in their presentation. I think maybe they
had to go with the company policy, and get them to donate first, and
then we'll work through the process, but I would like to basically
return a letter to Secretary Strews that says that that we would be
willing to work with their staff to talk about a donation for some kind
of mitigation credit to be determined, and some guarantee of access
rights to the area for the citizens of the county and the state.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes.
MR. MUDD: And then basically talk about that, and if he
comes back, and then the final thing, should you not have any
interest in the proposal that we shared, then you need to go into
condemnation of the area.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: I agree.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I agree.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I do too.
MR. MUDD: That's all I have, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I think it's just beginning to rain, so
CHAIRMAN HENNING: So we can hurry up and catch it then.
Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I just want to say it was a pleasure
working with my fellow commissioners. Today was a tough day.
We heard a lot of input from different areas, whether it was beach
access or whether it was the Dover Kohl, Naples Park study, and I
just want to say, I commend my fellow commissioners in taking the
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June 1 O, 2003
action that was taken today. Thank you very much.
Item # 15C
COUNTY MANAGER TO WORK WITH SCHOOL BOARD
REGARDING COPS 1N SCHOOl, PROGRAM
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thank you, and Commissioner, I just
want to tell you, it doesn't get any easier.
I got three items. We discussed about a couple meetings ago on
the sheriff and the grants for the cops program -- or the YRD
program, cops in school.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes, cops in school.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And also during, oh, our last
workshop, and if we're serious about this school board taking up
some of their responsibilities for deputies in the schools, we need to
direct the county manager to work with the school superintendent to
get some of those fundings and responsibility to the school board.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Definitely. I still question three
deputies per each school. I still have a hard time swallowing that
one.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Well, Commissioner, we'll get a
chance to--
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Good.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: -- approve that budget of the sheriff.
We can't tell him how to spend it, but we sure can cut out certain
things, certain amount of monies.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I think the school board does have
a responsibility here that they need to step up to the plate here, and
also to take on the responsibility of some of the security at the school
and not lay it out on the general budget here.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And then also is with the -- we want
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June 1 O, 2003
to try to recoup some of that grant money, that matching grant money
that you mentioned, correct?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Correct.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Is that correct, Commissioner?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: So you got three nods on that. So go
after it and see what you can do on that.
Item # 15D
REQUEST FOR RESOLUTION FROM CITIZENS FOR PEACE &
Jl ISTICE REGARDING RIGHTS
Tomorrow, I will be tardy to tomorrow's workshop, but I'll be
here as soon as I can. I need to take care of some health things with
my son. And also we've got -- I think everybody got this request
from citizens for peace and justice, and it's signed by John and Karen
Dwyer and Pat Christie. It's -- what it's asking us to do is approve a
resolution, and what the resolution is, is pretty much saying, hey, the
Civil Liberties Union is very much against the president and federal
government taking away people's rights when the rights is citizens
who -- or not citizens -- visitors of our country being questioned by
immigration, and that, because of suspect of terrorism and so on and
so forth.
I can tell you this is -- resolution would not pass the mustard for
the Republican party. I wouldn't vote yes on this resolution, but I
just wanted to bring it up to the county commissioners and see if
there's a majority to support this and bring it on our next agenda.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You know, I want to do everything
we can to keep us safe, and that doesn't sound like that's one of the
things to get us there.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Right. So with that, we don't have a
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June 1 O, 2003
majority, so I'm not going to bring it up again.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Thanks.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: And the county manager, county
attorney and I are going to Tallahassee to talk to the governor.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Good luck.
CHAIRMAN HENNING: Thanks. We'll need all the luck we
can.
With that, we're adjourned.
*****Commissioner Coletta moved, seconded by
Commissioner Coyle and carried unanimously that the following
items under the Consent and Summary Agendas be approved and/or
adopted. Item #16A20 was a separate motion w/the BCC acting as
the Community Redevelopment Agency, with the motion being made
by Commissioner Coyle and seconded by Commissioner Halas and
carried unanimously. *****
Item #16Al
RESOLUTION 2003-195: A LAND PURCHASING POLICY FOR
THE ACQUISITION OF ENVIRONMENTALLY SENSITIVE
LANDS AS AUTHORIZED BY THE CONSERVATION COLLIER
I,AND ACOI IISITION PROGRAM
Item # 16A2
RESOLUTION 2003-196: A TARGET PROTECTION AREA
MAILING STRATEGY FOR THE CONSERVATION COLLIER
IJAND ACQI JISITION PROGRAM
Item #16A3
Page 283
June 1 O, 2003
SELECTION COMMITTEE RANKING OF FIRMS FOR
CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS FOR RFP 03-3504
"CONSULTANT SERVICES FOR IMPACT FEE STUDIES -
EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES"-WITH HENDERSON,
YOIJNG & COMPANY
Item # 16A4
SELECTION COMMITTEE RANKING OF FIRMS FOR
CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS FOR RFP 03-3504
"CONSULTANT SERVICES FOR IMPACT FEE STUDIES -
GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS"-WITH TINDALE-OLIVER &
ASSOCIATFiS, 1NC.
Item # 16A5
SELECTION COMMITTEE RANKING OF FIRMS FOR
CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS FOR RFP 03-3504
"CONSULTANT SERVICES FOR IMPACT FEE STUDIES-
LIBRARY SYSTEM"-WITH TINDALE-OLIVER &
ASSOCIATES, INC.
Item # 16A6
ACCEPTANCE OF AN ALTERNATE SECURITY FOR THAT
SUBDIVISION KNOWN AS GLEN EDEN, PHASE TWO, AND
ENTERING INTO A NEW CONSTRUCTION AND
MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT WITH THE NEW DEVELOPER-
(SUNNY DAYS, INC.) WITH RELEASE OF THE EXISTING
SECURITY AND RETURN OF THE CURRENT
CONSTRIICTION AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT
Page 284
June 10, 2003
Item #16A7
SUBMISSION OF THE 2003 CONTINUUM OF CARE
CONSOLIDATED GRANT APPLICATION TO THE UNITED
STATES DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN
DF. VF.I JOPMFNT (HI JD)
Item # 16A8
ACCEPTANCE OF AN ALTERNATE SECURITY FOR THAT
SUBDIVISION KNOWN AS EDEN ON THE BAY, AND
ENTERING INTO A NEW CONSTRUCTION AND
MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT WITH THE NEW DEVELOPER-
(SUNNY DAYS, INC.) WITH RELEASE OF EXISTING
SECURITY AND RETURN OF THE CURRENT
CONSTRI~CTION AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT
Item # 16A9
RECORDING THE FINAL PLAT OF "HAMMOCK ISLES", AND
APPROVING THE STANDARD FORM CONSTRUCTION AND
MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT AND APPROVING THE
AMOUNT OF THE PERFORMANCE SECURITY-
W/STIPI IIJATIONS
Item #16Al O-Moved to Item # 10G
Item #16Al 1
CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT FOR
WHIPPOORWILL LANE ROADWAY IMPROVEMENTS (AR-
Page 285
June 1 O, 2003
4185) AND APPROVING THE PERFORMANCE BOND
ATTACHED THERETO FOR THE HOLD HARMLESS
INDEMNIFICATION AGREEMENT
Item #16A12
BUDGET AMENDMENT CANCELING OR REDUCING TDC
CATEGORY "A" PROJECTS, IN THE AMOUNT OF
$3,213,390.84-TO BF, RETI IRNED TO THE RFSERVES
Item # 16A 13-Moved to Item # 1 OF
Item #16A14
BUDGET AMENDMENT AND TDC CATEGORY "A" GRANT
APPLICATION FROM THE CITY OF NAPLES FOR SEA
TI JRTIJF, MONITORING IN THE AMOI INT OF $7,558
Item #16A15-Moved to Item #10H
Item #16Al 6-Moved to Item # 10I
Item #16Al 7-Moved to Item #10J
Item #16A18
CITY OF NAPLES TOURIST DEVELOPMENT CATEGORY "A"
BEACH RENOURISHMENT/MAINTENANCE GRANT
APPLICATIONS FOR FISCAL YEAR 2003/2004 IN THE
AMOI JNT OF $79,756
Item #16A19
Page 286
June 10, 2003
SETTLEMENT PROPOSAL FOR THE COMPROMISE OF A
CODE ENFORCEMENT LIEN IMPOSED IN BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS V. CLEVELAND A. AND CAROL YN
BLOCKER AND PAYMENT OF $5,000-FOLLOWING
PAYMENT, EXF, CI ITF, A RF, I,FJASF, OF I,IF, N AND RECORD
Item # 16A20
THE BCC ACTING AS THE COMMI JNITY REDEVF, IJOPMF, NT
AGENCY BOARD APPROVFD IJNANIMOIJSI,Y THIS ITEM:
A BUDGET AMENDMENT OF $379,046 FOR THE
EXPENDITURE OF FUNDS FROM FUND 187
BAYSHORE/GATEWAY TRIANGLE REDEVELOPMENT FOR
THE STORMWATER MANAGEMENT AND
INFRASTRUCTURE PROGRAM IN THE GATEWAY
TRIANGI JFJSTORMWATFJR NEIGHBORHOOD
Item #16B 1
RESOLUTION 2003-197: AUTHORIZING THE BOARD TO
ENTER INTO A LANDSCAPING INSTALLATION AND
MAINTENANCE HIGHWAY AGREEMENT WITH THE
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION (FDOT) ON
BEHALF OF WCI COMMUNITIES, INC.; EXECUTION OF
FDOT MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT; AND INSTALLATION
AND LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT BETWEEN
WCI COMMUNITIES, INC. AND COLLIER COUNTY FOR
FIEAI ~TIFICATION ON SR 951
Item #16B2
Page 287
June 10, 2003
PURCHASE AGREEMENT FOR THE ACQUISITION OF RIGHT-
OF-WAY REQUIRED FOR THE EXPANSION OF IMMOKALEE
ROAD BETWEEN COLLIER BOULEVARD AND 43P'I) STREET
NORTHEAST. FISCAL IMPACT: $396,239.50-BETWEEN TREE
PLATEAU, INC., THE PELICAN NURSERY CO., AND COLLIER
COIINTY: AS DETAIIJFD IN THE EXECIITIVE SIIMMARY
Item #16B3
SELECTION COMMITTEE RANKING OF FIRMS FOR
CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS FOR RFP 03-3480 "FIXED TERM
PROFESSIONAL ENVIRONMENTAL CONSULTING
SERVICES" (ESTIMATED DOLLAR AMOUNT OF CONTRACT
NOT TO EXCEED $500,000 ANNUALLY PER FIRM)-WITH
JOHNSON ENGINEERING, INC., PASSARELLA AND
ASSOCIATES, INC., AND SCHEDA ECOLOGICAL
ASSOCIATES. INC.
Item #16B4
RESOLUTION 2003-198 AND RESOLUTION 2003-199: TWO
LOCAL AGENCY PROGRAM (LAP) AGREEMENTS WITH THE
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION (FDOT) AND
APPROVING A BUDGET AMENDMENT IN THE AMOUNT OF
$420,000 TO PROVIDE ADDITIONAL FUNDS FOR THE DAVIS
BOULEVARD (SR 84)/COLLIER BOULEVARD (CR-951)
INTFRSF, CTION IMPROVFiMENT PROJECT
Item #16B5
CONTRACT SUPPLEMENTAL AGREEMENT NO. 4 IN THE
AMOUNT OF $830,720 FOR PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERING
Page 288
June 1 O, 2003
SERVICES BY WILSON MILLER INC. FOR THE SANTA
BARBARA/LOGAN BOULEVARD FOUR/SIX-LANING FROM
DAVIS BOULEVARD TO PINE RIDGE ROAD AND THE FOUR-
LANING OF RADIO ROAD FROM SANTA BARBARA
BOULEVARD TO EAST OF DAVIS BOULEVARD AT ROBIN
HOOD CIRCIJF,, COI,IJlF, R COl JNTY PROJECT NO. 62081
Item # 16B6
BUDGET AMENDMENT TO MOVE $126,000 FROM THE
TRANSPORTATION ROAD AND BRIDGE MAINTENANCE
OPERATIONS CAPITAL BUDGET TO THE OPERATING
BUDGET FOR THE PURCHASE OF LIME ROCK FOR THE
RF, MA1NDER OF THE FISCAIJ YEAR
Item #16B7
RESOLUTION 2003-200: ALLOWING THE CHAIRMAN OF
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS TO ENTER INTO
A JOINT PROJECT AGREEMENT (JPA) WITH THE FLORIDA
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION (FDOT) TO PROVIDE
FOR THE COMPLETION OF PHASE ONE OF THE
COUNTYWIDE COMPUTERIZED TRAFFIC SIGNAL SYSTEM
lnlY COIJJlER COl JNTY
Item # 16C 1
RESOLUTION 2003-201: APPROVING THE SATISFACTION OF
LIENS FOR SOLID WASTE RESIDENTIAL ACCOUNTS
WHEREIN THE COUNTY HAS RECEIVED PAYMENT AND
SAID LIENS ARE SATISFIED IN FULL FOR THE 1991 SOLID
WASTE COLLECTION AND DISPOSAL SERVICES SPECIAL
Page 289
June 1 O, 2003
ASSESSMENTS. FISCAL IMPACT IS $24.00 TO RECORD THE
I,IF, NS-FOR ACCOIJNT #38700: #57752, AND #75255
Item #16C2
RESOLUTION 2003-202: APPROVING THE SATISFACTION OF
LIENS FOR SOLID WASTE RESIDENTIAL ACCOUNTS
WHEREIN THE COUNTY HAS RECEIVED PAYMENT AND
SAID LIENS ARE SATISFIED IN FULL FOR THE 1992 SOLID
WASTE COLLECTION AND DISPOSAL SERVICES SPECIAL
ASSESSMENTS. FISCAL IMPACT IS $42.00 TO RECORD THE
LIENS-FOR ACCOUNT #23100, #52605, #89050, #90052,
#109859. AND #153009
Item #16C3
RESOLUTION 2003-203: APPROVING THE SATISFACTION OF
LIENS FOR SOLID WASTE RESIDENTIAL ACCOUNTS
WHEREIN THE COUNTY HAS RECEIVED PAYMENT AND
SAID LIENS ARE SATISFIED IN FULL FOR THE 1993 SOLID
WASTE COLLECTION AND DISPOSAL SERVICES SPECIAL
ASSESSMENTS. FISCAL IMPACT IS $48.00 TO RECORD THE
LIENS-FOR ACCOUNT #4381, #10773, #17747, #17909, #20624,
#21856, AND #306322
Item #16C4
RESOLUTION 2003-204: APPROVING THE SATISFACTION OF
LIENS FOR SOLID WASTE RESIDENTIAL ACCOUNTS
WHEREIN THE COUNTY HAS RECEIVED PAYMENT AND
SAID LIENS ARE SATISFIED IN FULL FOR THE 1994 SOLID
WASTE COLLECTION AND DISPOSAL SERVICES SPECIAL
Page 290
June 10,2003
ASSESSMENTS. FISCAL IMPACT IS $54.00 TO RECORD THE
LIENS-FOR ACCOUNT #3447, #4381, #9289, #10184, #16861,
#20323:#20815, AND #25836
Item # 16C5
RESOLUTION 2003-205: APPROVING THE SATISFACTION OF
LIENS FOR SOLID WASTE RESIDENTIAL ACCOUNTS
WHERE1N THE COUNTY HAS RECEIVED PAYMENT AND
SAID LIENS ARE SATISFIED IN FULL FOR THE 1995 SOLID
WASTE COLLECTION AND DISPOSAL SERVICES SPECIAL
ASSESSMENTS. FISCAL IMPACT IS $100.50 TO RECORD THE
LIENS-FOR ACCOUNT #3706, #4763, #9768, #10618, #14274,
#15480, #15794, #18050, #20695, #21542, #21979, #26246, #27407,
#27449, AND #28396
Item # 16C6
RESOLUTION 2003-206' APPROVING THE SATISFACTION OF
LIENS FOR SOLID WASTE RESIDENTIAL ACCOUNTS
WHEREIN THE COUNTY HAS RECEIVED PAYMENT AND
SAID LIENS ARE SATISFIED IN FULL FOR THE 1996 SOLID
WASTE COLLECTION AND DISPOSAL SERVICES SPECIAL
ASSESSMENTS. FISCAL IMPACT IS $135.00 TO RECORD THE
LIENS-FOR ACCOUNT #3188, #3874, #5461, #6457, #10579,
# 11507, #15794, # 17598, # 19868, #23595, #24183, #24235, #24329,
#25221, #28723, #29175, #29997, #31273, AND #31435
Item # 16C7
BUDGET AMENDMENT RECOGNIZING POSITIVE CARRY
FORWARD VARIANCE IN THE WATER POLLUTION
Page 291
June 10, 2003
CONTROl, FIJND (114) IN THE AMOIINT OF $444:400
Item gl 6C8
EXECUTING AND RECORDING SATISFACTIONS FOR
CERTAIN WATER AND/OR SEWER IMPACT FEE PAYMENT
AGREEMENTS. FISCAL IMPACT IS $229.50 TO RECORD THE
SATISFACTIONS
Item g 16C9
CONTRACT AMENDMENT g01, UNDER CONTRACT g02-3313,
"FIXED TERM PROFESSIONAL GEOGRAPHIC INFORMATION
SYSTEM SERVICES (GIS)" FOR COLLIER COUNTY, WITH
WILSON MILLER INC., PROJECT 50014, IN THE AMOUNT OF
$69,600
Item g 16C 10
FUNDING RELATED TO REVISING THE COLLIER COUNTY
UTILITIES STANDARDS, PROJECT 70202, IN THE AMOUNT
OF $26,000
Item # 16C 11
WORK ORDER #UC-034 WITH DOUGLAS N. HIGGINS, INC.,
IN THE AMOUNT OF $543,010 FOR CONSTRUCTION OF A 16-
INCH FORCE MAIN ALONG COLLIER BOULEVARD (CR-951)
FROM SUMMIT PLACE TO IMMOKALEE ROAD (CR-846),
PROJECT NI JMlqER 73086
Item gl6C12
Page 292
June 1 O, 2003
FUNDING RELATED TO RAW WATER BOOSTER PUMPING
STATION RELIABILITY IMPROVEMENTS, NOISE CONTROL,
AND PROPERTY ACQUISITION IN THE AMOUNT OF
$241:000-1,OCATFD ON 7TM STREET SW
Item #16C13
PURCHASE OF A 1.65-ACRE SITE ON IMMOKALEE ROAD
FOR A WASTEWATER MASTER PUMP STATION AT A
TOTAL COST NOT TO EXCEED $47,635 (PROJECT NO. 73153)-
WITH STlPI HJATIONS
Item # 16D 1
LEASE AGREEMENT WITH NEW YORK NEWCO
SUBSIDIARY, INC., FOR THE INSTALLATION OF A
COMMUNICATIONS TOWER AT VETERANS PARK FOR A
FIRST YEAR'S INCOME OF $35,000-INCLUDING EXECUTING
THE MF, MORANDI ~M OF IJF, ASF,
Item #16D2
MODIFICATION #2 TO PURCHASE ORDER #103221 WITH J.
ROLAND LIEBER LANDSCAPE ARCHITECTS FOR GOLDEN
GATE COMMUNITY CENTER EXPANSION-IN THE AMOUNT
OF $1.900
Item # 16E 1
RENEWAL OF BID NO. 00-3091, "FLEET VEHICLES", WITH
TAMIAMI FORD INC., FOR THREE YEARS, AT AN
Page 293
June 10, 2003
ESTIMATED CONTRACT VALUE OF $3,600,000-
COMMENCING 10/1/03 AND ENDING 9/30/06
Item # 16E2
CONTRACT AWARD FOR RFP 03-3470 "NETWORK
SECURITY ASSESSMENT" (CONTRACT AMOUNT OF
$32,640)-WITH GI~ARDFD NETWORKS, INC.
Item # 16E3
AWARD BID NO. 03-3466, GENERATOR REPAIR,
MAINTENANCE AND INSTALLATION, TO AAA
GENERATOR, INC., FOR COUNTY-WIDE MAINTENANCE OF
EQUIPMENT IN THE ESTIMATED ANNUAL AMOUNT OF
$300,000
Item #16E4
CONTRACT AMENDMENT #01 INVOLVING CONTRACT #02-
3364, "LIVINGSTON ROAD FROM IMMOKALEE ROAD TO
LEE COUNTY LINE", TO CLARIFY THE LANGUAGE
REGARDING THE ACCUMULATION AND SUBSEQUENT
RELEASE OF CONTRACTOR RETAINAGE-WITH BONNESS,
INC.
Item #16E5
AWARD RFP NO. 03-3469, FIRE SPRINKLER TESTING,
MAINTENANCE AND INSTALLATION. (ESTIMATED VALUE
$102,000)-TO BUILDING SYSTEMS EVALUATION, INC.
D/lq/A/lqSE
Page 294
June 10, 2003
Item # 16E6
AWARD BID #03-3493 TO VANDERBILT BAY
CONSTRUCTION INC., AND TO ENTER INTO A
CONSTRUCTION CONTRACT IN THE AMOUNT OF $1,650,406
FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF THE GREY OAKS PUBLIC
SAFETY FACILITY LOCATED ON AIRPORT-PULLING ROAD
ON THE SOUTH CORNER ENTRANCE TO POINCIANA
EIJEMENTARY SCHOOI~
Item #16E7
DONATION AGREEMENT BETWEEN GUY L. CARLTON,
COLLIER COUNTY TAX COLLECTOR, AND COLLIER
COUNTY FOR REAL PROPERTY HOUSING THE DRIVER'S
LICENSE OFFICES AT 725 AIRPORT ROAD SOUTH, THE
COST OF WHICH SHOI HJD NOT EXCF, FD $50
Item #16E8
AWARD CONTRACT #03-3448, ARCHITECTURAL SERVICES,
TO HARVARD JOLLY CLEES TOPPE ARCHITECTS, IN THE
AMOUNT OF $1,859,400, FOR THE DESIGN OF THE
EMF, RGFNCY OPERATIONS CENTER
Item # 16E9
BUDGET AMENDMENT TO THE GROUP HEALTH AND LIFE
PLAN TO FUND CLAIMS PAYMENTS AND TO MAINTAIN
RESERVE REQUIREMENTS THROUGH SEPTEMBER 30, 2003-
BASED ON ACTUARIAL EVALUATION BY WILLIS
Page 295
June 10, 2003
CORPORATION
Item #16F 1
BUDGET AMENDMENT TRANSFERRING $45,600 FROM
GENERAL FUND RESERVES TO THE EMERGENCY
MANAGEMENT ADMINISTRATION BUDGET FOR FISCAL
YEAR 2003
Item #16F2-Continued to June 24, 2003 BCC Meeting
AWARD BID #03-3520 IN THE AMOUNT OF $44,800 FOR
PURCHASE AND DELIVERY OF PINE STRAW MULCH TO
FORESTRY RESOI IRCF, S INC.
Item # 16F3
BUDGET AMENDMENT TO UPGRADE TELEVISION
BROADCAST AND PRESENTATION CAPABILITIES IN THE
COMMISSION CHAMBERS. (APPROXIMATE COST IS
$ 90, ooo)
Item #16F4
BUDGET AMENDMENT REPORT- BUDGET AMENDMENT
#03-348 IN THE AMOUNT OF $10,000; #03-349 IN THE
AMOUNT OF $3,000; AND #03-350 IN THE AMOUNT OF
$10,000 TO PAY FOR WATER AND SEWER CHARGES FOR
THE REMAINDER OF THE FISCAI~ YEAR
Item # 1611
Page 296
June 10, 2003
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE-FILED AND/OR
REFERRED
The following miscellaneous correspondence, as presented by
the Board of County Commissioners, has been directed to the various
departments as indicated:
Page 297
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
June 10, 2003
FOR BOARD ACTION:
1. MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS TO FILE FOR RECORD WITH ACTION AS DIRECTED:
mo
Bo
Clerk of Courts: Submitted for public record, pursuant to Florida Statutes,
Chapter 136.06(1), the disbursements for the Board of County Commissioners for
the period:
1. Disbursements for May 17, 2003 and May 23, 2003
Districts:
Key Marco Community Development District - Minutes of Meeting held
August 1, 2002; Adopted Budget FY 2003 and Unaudited Financial
Statements dated June 30, 2002.
Golden Gate Fire Control & Rescue District - Offical Audit FY 2002 and
Management Letter
ge
Fiddler's Creek Community Development District - Minutes of Meeting
held on December 2, 2003; District Map and Summary of Bonds.
Port of the Islands Community Improvement District - Minutes of
Meeting held on March 21, 2003 and Financial Statement dated January
31, 2003.
o
Key Marco Community Development District - Minutes of Meeting held
11/7/02 and 11/25/02. ,~
o
Collier Soil and Water Conservation District - Audit for year 2002;
Management Letter and Management Rebuttal.
Tuscany Reserve Community Development District - Minutes of Meeting
held on January 9, 2003.
Co
Minutes:
1. r¥~Enterprise Zone Development Agency - Draft Minutes Of March 26,
2003-
H:DataJFormat
Radio Road Beautification M.S.T.U. - Agenda for May 20, 2003, Minutes
of May 4, 2003.
o
Golden Gate Beautification Advisory Committee - Agenda for May 13,
2003; Minutes of April 8, 2003.
Lely Golf Estates Beautification Advisory Committee - Agenda for May
15, 2003; Minutes of April 17, 2003.
o
1-75 Golden Gate Ad Hoc Landscaping Beautification Committee -
Agenda for May 28, 2003; Minutes of April 9, 2003.
o
Park and Recreation Advisory Board - Agenda for May 21, 2003, Minutes
of April 16, 2003.
Collier County Hispanic Affairs Advisory Board - Agenda for May 22,
2003.
Collier County Airport Authority - Agenda for May 12, 2003, Minutes of
April 14, 2003.
Other:
1) Collier County Sheriff's Office submitted their Certification of Proposed
Budget for FY 2004
H:Data/Format
June 10, 2003
Item # 16J 1
DETERMINATION OF WHETHER THE PURCHASES OF
GOODS AND SERVICES DOCUMENTED IN THE DETAILED
REPORT OF OPEN PURCHASE ORDERS SERVE A VALID
PUBLIC PURPOSE AND AUTHORIZE THE EXPENDITURE OF
COUNTY FUNDS TO SATISFY SAID PURCHASES-AS
DETAIIJFD lN THE EXECIITIVE SI JMMARY
Item # 16J2
STATE REVENUE SHARING APPLICATION FOR FISCAL
YEAR 2003-2004
Item #16J3-Moved to Item #13A
Item #16K1
RESOLUTION 2003-207: AUTHORIZING THE COLLIER
COUNTY INDUSTRIAL DEVELOPMENT AUTHORITY TO
ISSUE REVENUE BONDS TO BE USED TO FINANCE
MANUFACTURING FACILITIES FOR THE MARCH GROUP
IJJC AND MARCH. INC.. D/B/A/MARCH PERFORMANCE
Item # 16K2
RESOLUTION 2003-208: AUTHORIZING THE HOUSING
FINANCE AUTHORITY OF COLLIER COUNTY TO ISSUE
REFUNDING BONDS TO BE USED TO REFINANCE BONDS
ISSUES IN 2000 FOR WILD PINES OF NAPLES PHASE II
APARTMFiNTS
Page 298
June 10, 2003
Item # 16K3
MEDIATED SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT AND A
STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT TO BE DRAFTED
INCORPORATING THE SAME TERMS AND CONDITIONS AS
THE MEDIATED SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT RELATIVE TO
THE ACQUISITION OF PARCELS 105 AND 106 IN THE
LAWSUIT STYLED COLLIER COUNTY V. FAITH BIBLE
CHURCH OF NAPLES, INC., ET AL., CASE NO. 99-2165-CA
(IMMOKALEE ROAD, PROJECT NO. 69101)-$38,850.00 TO BE
PAID TO RESPONDENT AND $22,150.00 DEPOSITED INTO
THE REGISTRY OF THFi COl JRT
Item # 16K4
MEDIATED SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT AND A
STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT TO BE DRAFTED
INCORPORATING THE SAME TERMS AND CONDITIONS AS
THE MEDIATED SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT RELATIVE TO
THE ACQUISITION OF PARCEL 102 IN THE LAWSUIT
STYLED COLLIER COUNTY V. TREE PLATEAU CO., INC., ET
AL, CASE NO. 03-0519-CA (IMMOKALEE ROAD, PROJECT
NO. 60018)-$142,138.00 DEPOSITED INTO THE REGISTRY OF
THE COl JRT
Item #16K5
APPLICATION FOR TAX DEEDS FOR 129 COUNTY-HELD
TAX CERTIFICATES AND NOTICE TO PROCEED TO THE
TAX COIJ.ECTOR
Item # 16K6-Continued to June 24, 2003 BCC Meeting
Page 299
June 10, 2003
SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT PROVIDING FOR ABATEMENT
OF VIOLATION AND COMPROMISE OF LIEN IN TWO CODE
ENFORCEMENT LIEN FORECLOSURES ENTITLED COLLIER
COUNTY 17. ANTHONY J. 17ARANO, CASE NOS. 99-4226-CA AND
O0-3430-CA-AS DETAIIJED IN THE EXECIITIVE SI JMMARY
Item # 17A
RESOLUTION 2003-209 REGARDING PETITION
AVPLAT2003-AR3995 TO DISCLAIM, RENOUNCE AND
VACATE THE COUNTY'S AND THE PUBLIC'S INTEREST IN
A PORTION OF THE 20 FOOT WIDE LAKE MAINTENANCE
EASEMENT LOCATED ALONG THE REAR OF LOT 2,
ACCORDING TO THE PI,AT OF "DAVINCI ESTATES"
Item # 17B
RESOLUTION 2003-210 REGARDING CU-2003-AR-3730 DAVID
A. TITSCH, OF TITSCH AND ASSOCIATES ARCHITECTS,
INC., REPRESENTING EAST NAPLES FIRE CONTROL
DISTRICT, REQUESTING CONDITIONAL USE 11 OF THE "C-
4" ZONING DISTRICT TO ALLOW A FIRE STATION. THE
PROPERTY IS LOCATED ON THE SOUTHEAST CORNER OF
BAYSHORE DRIVE AND JEEPERS DRIVE
Page 300
June 1 O, 2003
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 6:50 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS
CONTROL .
TOM HI2NN~, C~~" an
ATTEST:
DWIGHT~.E~:~gOCK, CLERK
~ '5~.k~ ~-' ~ . ~.//3' :
These minutes approved by the Board on
as presented ~ or as co~ected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT
REPORTING SERVICE, INC. BY TERRI LEWIS AND
ELIZABETH BROOKS
Page 301