CEB Minutes 06/22/2017June 22, 2017
Page 1
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
COLLIER COUNTY CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD
Naples, Florida, June 22, 2017
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Code
Enforcement Board, in and for the County of Collier, having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m. in REGULAR
SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples,
Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Robert Kaufman
Sue Curley
Ron Doino
Kathleen Elrod
Gerald J. Lefebvre
James Lavinski
Lionel L'Esperance
Herminio Ortega (alternate)
Robert Ashton (excused)
ALSO PRESENT:
Tamara Lynn Nicola, Attorney for the Board
Kerry Adams, Code Enforcement Specialist
Jeff Letourneau, Manager of Investigations
CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD OF COLLIER COUNTY,FLORIDA
AGENDA
DATE: Thursday June 22,2017 at 9:00 A.M.
LOCATION: Collier County Government Center,3299 East Tamiami Trail,Building F,3rd Floor,Naples,Florida 34112
NOTICE:THE RESPONDENT MAY BE LIMITED TO TWENTY(20)MINUTES FOR CASE PRESENTATION
UNLESS ADDITIONAL TIME IS GRANTED BY THE BOARD. PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON ANY AGENDA
ITEM WILL RECEIVE UP TO FIVE(5)MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
ALL PARTIES PARTICIPATING IN THE PUBLIC HEARING ARE ASKED TO OBSERVE ROBERTS RULES OF
ORDER AND SPEAK ONE AT A TIME SO THAT THE COURT REPORTER CAN RECORD ALL STATEMENTS
BEING MADE.
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE
PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO,AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM
RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE,WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE
UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.NEITHER COLLIER COUNTY NOR THE CODE ENFORCEMENT
BOARD SHALL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR PROVIDING THIS RECORD.
1. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
2. ROLL CALL
Robert Kaufman,Chair Ronald Doino
James Lavinski,Vice Chair Robert Ashton-Excused
Gerald Lefebvre Sue Curley
Lionel L'Esperance Kathleen Elrod,Alternate
Herminio Ortega,Alternate
3. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
4. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A. May 25,2017 Hearing
5. PUBLIC HEARINGS/MOTIONS
A. Motions
Motion for Continuance
5. CASE NO: CEROW20150006433
OWNER: FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH OF IMMOKALEE
OFFICER: INVESTIGATOR JOSEPH MUCHA
VIOLATIONS: COLLIER COUNTY CODE OF LAWS AND ORDINANCES,CHAPTER 110,ARTICLE II,
DIVISION 1,SECTION 110-31(A).THREE GRAVESITES ENCROACHING THE COUNTY
RIGHT OF WAY JUST WEST OF THE CEMETERY.
FOLIO NO: 00086440008
VIOLATION
ADDRESS: 820 11TH ST N,IMMOKALEE
1
Motion for Extension of Time
5. CASE NO: CESD20160002295
OWNER: DESTINY CHURCH NAPLES INC
OFFICER: INVESTIGATOR CRISTINA PEREZ
VIOLATIONS: COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE 04-41,AS AMENDED,SECTION(S)
10.02.06(B)(1)(A)AND 10.02.06(B)(1)(E)(I).AN UNPERMITTED SHED,FENCE AND POLE
BARN TYPE STRUCTURE.ALSO,UNPERMITTED SHIPPING CRATES CONTAINERS USED
FOR STORAGE.
FOLIO NO: 41930720008
VIOLATION
ADDRESS: 6455 HIDDEN OAKS LN,NAPLES
B. Stipulations
C. Hearings
1. CASE NO: CESD20160017293
OWNER: MANUEL LOPEZ PARCHMENT
OFFICER: INVESTIGATOR STEVEN LOPEZ-SILVERO
VIOLATIONS: COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE 04-41,AS AMENDED,SECTION
10.02.06(B)(1)(A).OBSERVED AN UNPERMITTED FRAME STORAGE BUILDING/SHED IN
THE REAR YARD OF IMPROVED OCCUPIED RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY.
FOLIO NO: 35740520006
VIOLATION
ADDRESS: 2069 41ST TER SW,NAPLES
2. CASE NO: CESD20160002817
OWNER: NORTH NAPLES PROPERTIES LLC
OFFICER: INVESTIGATOR JON HOAGBOON
VIOLATIONS: COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE 04-41,AS AMENDED,SECTION(S)
10.02.06(B)(1)(A)AND 10.02.06(B)(1)(E)(I).UNPERMITTED ALTERATIONS OF AN AWNING
IN THE FRONT OF THE BUSINESS.
FOLIO NO: 61942520001
VIOLATION
ADDRESS: 1048 PINE RIDGE RD,NAPLES
3. CASE NO: CESD20160016422
OWNER: NAJEEB ULLAH
OFFICER: INVESTIGATOR JONATHAN MUSSE
VIOLATIONS: COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE 04-41,AS AMENDED,SECTION(S)
10.02.06(B)(1)(A)AND 10.02.06(B)(1)(E)(I).INTERIOR REMODELING CONSISTING OF BUT
LIMITED TO,REMOVING DRYWALL AND INSULATION WITH PLANS TO REPLACE THEM
WITH NEW DRYWALL WITHOUT FIRST OBTAINING A VALID COLLIER COUNTY PERMIT.
FOLIO NO: 62205720000
VIOLATION
ADDRESS: 5349 HOLLAND ST,NAPLES
2
4. CASE NO: CESD20160015129
OWNER: LUIS FLORES SALCEIRO
OFFICER: INVESTIGATOR JOSEPH MUCHA
VIOLATIONS: COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE 04-41,AS AMENDED,SECTION(S)
3.05.01(B), 10.02.06(B)(1)(E), 10.02.06(B)(1)(C)AND COLLIER COUNTY CODE OF LAWS,
CHAPTER 22,ARTICLE IV,SECTION 22-108.SITE WORK,IMPROVEMENT OF PROPERTY,
GRADING,AND OR REMOVAL OF PROTECTED VEGETATION USING HEAVY MACHINERY
WITHOUT A PERMIT THAT WOULD ALLOW SAME.ALTERATION OF LAND THROUGH
PLACEMENT OF FILL THAT REMOVED OR OTHERWISE DESTROYED VEGETATION
WITHOUT FIRST OBTAINING APPROVAL FROM THE COUNTY.DAMAGING NATIVE
VEGETATION BY THE USE OF HEAVY MACHINERY TO REMOVE EXOTIC AND NON-
NATIVE VEGETATION.WORK DONE IN RIGHT OF WAY,INCLUDING A TEMPORARY
DRIVEWAY ACCESS FROM EVERGLADES BLVD,WITHOUT OBTAINING PERMITS.
FOLIO NO: 41287600004
VIOLATION
ADDRESS: 2298 EVERGLADES BLVD S,NAPLES
5. CASE NO: CEROW20150006433
OWNER: FIRST BAPTIST CHURCH OF IMMOKALEE
OFFICER: INVESTIGATOR JOSEPH MUCHA
VIOLATIONS: COLLIER COUNTY CODE OF LAWS AND ORDINANCES,CHAPTER 110,ARTICLE II,
DIVISION 1,SECTION 110-31(A).THREE GRAVESITES ENCROACHING THE COUNTY
RIGHT OF WAY JUST WEST OF THE CEMETERY.
FOLIO NO: 00086440008
VIOLATION
ADDRESS: 820 11TH ST N,IMMOKALEE
6. CASE NO: CEVR20170001173
OWNER: K G B PROPERTIES LLC
OFFICER: INVESTIGATOR JONATHAN MUSSE
VIOLATIONS: COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE 04-41,AS AMENDED,SECTION(S)
3.05.08(C), 1.04.01(A),2.02.03 AND COLLIER COUNTY CODE OF LAWS AND ORDINANCES,
CHAPTER 54,ARTICLE VI,SECTION(S)54-185(D)AND 54-179.PRESENCE OF PROHIBITED
EXOTIC VEGETATION,INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO BRAZILIAN PEPPER,JAVA
PLUM,AIR POTATOE,CARROT WOOD,EARLEAF ACACIA,AND AUSTRALIAN PINE ON
AN UNIMPROVED PROPERTY NOT ZONED ESTATES OR AGRICULTURAL AND LOCATED
WITHIN A 200 RADIUS OF AN ABUTTING,IMPROVED PROPERTY.ALSO OBSERVED THE
ILLEGAL OUTSIDE STORAGE CONSISTING OF BUT NOT LIMITED TO:MAN MADE
VEGETATIVE DEBRIS,TV'S,CARDBOARD BOXES,CHAIRS,JET SKI,TIRES,BOTTLES.
FOLIO NO: 62093440000
VIOLATION
ADDRESS: 5327 GEORGIA AVE,NAPLES
3
7. CASE NO: CEVR20170004251
OWNER: K G B PROPERTIES LLC
OFFICER: INVESTIGATOR JONATHAN MUSSE
VIOLATIONS: COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE 04-41,AS AMENDED,SECTION(S)
3.05.08(C), 1.04.01(A),2.02.03 AND COLLIER COUNTY CODE OF LAWS AND ORDINANCES,
CHAPTER 54,ARTICLE VI,SECTION 54-185(D)AND SECTION 54-179.PRESENCE OF
PROHIBITED EXOTIC VEGETATION,INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO BRAZILIAN
PEPPER,JAVA PLUM,AIR POTATOE,CARROT WOOD,EARLEAF ACACIA,AND
AUSTRALIAN PINE ON AN UNIMPROVED PROPERTY NOT ZONED ESTATES OR
AGRICULTURAL AND LOCATED WITHIN A 200 RADIUS OF AN UNIMPROVED PROPERTY
NOT ZONED ESTATES OR AGRICULTURAL AND LOCATED WITHIN A 200 RADIUS OF AN
ABUTTING,IMPROVED PROPERTY.ALSO OBSERVED THE ILLEGAL OUTSIDE STORAGE
CONSISTING OF BUT NOT LIMITED TO:MAN MADE VEGETATIVE DEBRIS,TV'S,
CARDBOARD BOXES,CHAIRS,JET SKI,TIRES,BOTTLES.
FOLIO NO: 62093400008
VIOLATION
ADDRESS: 5325 GEORGIA AVE,NAPLES
8. CASE NO: CELU20170004265
OWNER: 11222 TAMIAMI LLC
OFFICER: INVESTIGATOR JONATHAN MUSSE
VIOLATIONS: COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE 04-41,AS AMENDED,SECTION(S)
1.04.01(A)AND 2.02.03.COMMERCIAL CONTAINER BEING STORED ON AN UNIMPROVED
LOT.
FOLIO NO: 60783280006
VIOLATION
ADDRESS: NO SITE ADDRESS
D. Motion for Reduction of Fines/Lien.
6. OLD BUSINESS
A. Motion for Imposition of Fines/Liens
1. CASE NO: CESD20150017888
OWNER: JULIEN FRANCOIS LLC
OFFICER: INVESTIGATOR STEVEN LOPEZ-SILVERO
VIOLATIONS: COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE 04-41,AS AMENDED,SECTION 10.02.06
(B)(1)(A).UNPERMITTED INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR IMPROVEMENTS TO A STRUCTURE
CONSISTING OF BUT NOT LIMITED TO NEW WINDOWS,DOORS,ELECTRICAL WIRING,
PLUMBING LINES AND BATHROOM FIXTURES,AND PETITIONED WALLS CREATING
APPROXIMATELY 20 INDIVIDUAL SLEEPING ROOMS.
FOLIO NO: 00124960000
VIOLATION
ADDRESS: 305 S 3RD ST,IMMOKALEE
4
2. CASE NO: CEVR20160020159
OWNER: MARICIA NOEL INC
OFFICER: INVESTIGATOR JOSEPH MUCHA
VIOLATIONS: COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE,04-41,AS AMENDED,SECTION
3.05.08(C).PRESENCE OF PROHIBITED EXOTIC VEGETATION INCLUDING,BUT NOT
LIMITED TO,BRAZILIAN PEPPER UPON PROPERTY DEVELOPED AFTER NOVEMBER 13,
1991.
FOLIO NO: 71373120002
VIOLATION
ADDRESS: 18445 ROYAL HAMMOCK BLVD,NAPLES
3. CASE NO: CEROW20150023031
OWNER: VERONICA TRESSLER,BARBARA DETHLOFF AND ELIZABETH LUCKY
OFFICER: INVESTIGATOR PATRICK BALDWIN
VIOLATIONS: COLLIER COUNTY CODE OF LAWS AND ORDINANCES,CHAPTER 110,ROADS AND
BRIDGES,ARTICLE II,CONSTRUCTION IN RIGHT OF WAY,DIVISION 1,GENERALLY,
SECTION 110-31(A).A CULVERT DRAINAGE PIPE IN NEED OF REPAIR OR REPLACEMENT.
FOLIO NO: 00161080008
VIOLATION
ADDRESS: 231 WILLOUGHBY DR,NAPLES
4. CASE NO: CESD20160008108
OWNER: 212 NEW MARKET ROAD LLC
OFFICER: INVESTIGATOR JOSEPH MUCHA
VIOLATIONS: COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE 04-41,AS AMENDED,SECTION
10.02.06(B)(1)(A).INSTALLED A BIG WALK IN COOLER WITHOUT FIRST OBTAINING
COLLIER COUNTY BUILDING PERMITS.
FOLIO NO: 63861960009
VIOLATION
ADDRESS: 212 NEW MARKET RD W,IMMOKALEE
5. CASE NO: CESD20160002295
OWNER: DESTINY CHURCH NAPLES INC
OFFICER: INVESTIGATOR CRISTINA PEREZ
VIOLATIONS: COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE 04-41,AS AMENDED,SECTION(S)
10.02.06(B)(1)(A)AND 10.02.06(B)(1)(E)(I).AN UNPERMITTED SHED,FENCE AND POLE
BARN TYPE STRUCTURE.ALSO,UNPERMITTED SHIPPING CRATES CONTAINERS USED
FOR STORAGE.
FOLIO NO: 41930720008
VIOLATION
ADDRESS: 6455 HIDDEN OAKS LN,NAPLES
B. Motion to Rescind Previously Issued Order
C. Motion to Amend Previously Issued Order
5
7. NEW BUSINESS
8. CONSENT AGENDA
A. Request to Forward Cases to County Attorney's Office as Referenced in Submitted Executive Summary.
NONE
9. REPORTS
10. COMMENTS
11. NEXT MEETING DATE- Thursday July 27,2017 at 9:00 A.M.located at the Collier County Government Center,
3299 East Tamiami Trail,Building F,5"'Floor,Naples,Florida.
12. ADJOURN
6
June 22, 2017
Page 2
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Good morning. I'd like to call the
Code Enforcement Board to order.
Notice: The respondent may be limited to 20 minutes for case
presentation unless additional time is granted by the Board. Persons
wishing to speak on any agenda item will receive up to five minutes
unless the time is adjusted by the Chairman.
All parties participating in the public hearing are asked to observe
Robert's Rules of Order and speak one at a time so that the court
reporter can record all statements being made. Any person who
decides to appeal a decision of this board will need a record of the
proceedings pertaining thereto and, therefore, may need to ensure that
a verbatim record of the proceedings is made, which record includes
the testimony and evidence upon which the appeal is to be based.
Neither Collier County nor the Code Enforcement Board shall be
responsible for providing this record.
And if we could all stand for the pledge.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We're going to pass on the approval
of the minutes for now. We actually received them online, so any
changes to the minutes from the Board?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hearing none, they're approved.
MR. LAVINSKI: Motion to accept.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Motion.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Second. All those in favor?
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
MR. DOINO: Aye.
MR. LAVINSKI: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
June 22, 2017
Page 3
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Aye.
MS. ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
They're approved. Thank you.
Okay. You want to take the roll?
MS. ADAMS: Mr. Robert Kaufman?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Here.
MS. ADAMS: Mr. James Lavinski?
MR. LAVINSKI: Here.
MS. ADAMS: Mr. Gerald Lefebvre?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Here.
MS. ADAMS: Mr. Lionel L'Esperance?
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Here.
MS. ADAMS: Mr. Ronald Doino?
MR. DOINO: Here.
MS. ADAMS: Ms. Sue Curley?
MS. CURLEY: Here.
MS. ADAMS: Ms. Kathleen Elrod?
MS. ELROD: Here.
MS. ADAMS: Mr. Herminio Ortega?
MR. ORTEGA: Here.
MS. ADAMS: Mr. Robert Ashton has an excused absence.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Kathy Elrod would be the
voting member today to take Bob Ashton's place.
And do we have any changes to the agenda?
MS. ADAMS: We do.
No. 5, public hearings, motions, motion for continuance; this item
is also under Letter C, hearings, No. 5, which would be Tab 5 for the
Board. Case CEROW20150006433, First Baptist Church of
June 22, 2017
Page 4
Immokalee, has been withdrawn.
Motion for extension of time, we have one addition. It's from
imposition of fines, No. 1, Tab 9, Case CESD20150017888, Julien
Francois, LLC.
Letter B, stipulations, we have two additions. The first is No. 2
from hearings, Tab 2, Case CESD20160002817, North Naples
Properties, LLC. The second is No. 1 from hearings, Tab 1, Case
CESD20160017293, Manuel Lopez Parchment.
Letter C, hearings, No. 5 -- I already said that one. That's been
withdrawn.
Number 6, old business, Letter A, motion for imposition of
fines/liens. Number 3, Tab 11, Case CEROW20150023031, Veronica
Tressler, Barbara Dethloff, and Elizabeth Lucky, has been withdrawn,
and that's all the changes.
MR. LAVINSKI: Motion to accept.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion.
MR. DOINO: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And a second. All those in favor?
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
MR. DOINO: Aye.
MR. LAVINSKI: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Aye.
MS. ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Okay. We're ready to begin, unless I forgot something.
MS. ADAMS: Under motion for extension of time, the first one
will be No. 5 from hearings, Tab 5. I'm sorry, No. 5 --
June 22, 2017
Page 5
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's canceled.
MS. ADAMS: What?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's canceled, right; 5?
MS. ADAMS: No, it's actually No. 5 from imposition of fines.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Oh, okay.
MS. ADAMS: It's Tab 13. I'm sorry. Case CESD20160002295,
Destiny Church Naples, Incorporated.
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Quick question before we
begin on this. Have the operational costs been paid?
MS. PEREZ: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: They have? Okay. All righty.
Good morning. Could you state your name on the microphone.
PASTOR BALL: Good morning, Greg Ball, the pastor of
Destiny Church.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And you're here to request?
PASTOR BALL: An extension of time to get all this
accomplished.
We purchased the church three years ago from Faith Community,
Pastor Roy Shuck. And we've been in the community now for 10
years. We were renting at Palmetto. First Gulf Coast High School and
then Palmetto, and now I've purchased the property.
All of the things that we need to change were there before we
bought the property, so they've been there for about 15 years. But
we've got to figure out what to do.
So we hired Phoenix Builders, so we are entering into -- we've
already submitted once, and now we have to resubmit with the
adjustments, the building project. So we're going to build a new
sanctuary there. We've got about five acres, and so all of these things
will be gone when we move into the new building. So we just need
some time.
June 22, 2017
Page 6
I think Phoenix said the first submittal that we submitted took a
30-day review, now the second one could take a 30-day review, and
hopefully we'll be past at that point.
We have a conditional use for the property, so all this was on the
conditional use already. So we're not trying to do another -- where the
neighbors would vote again. I don't know what you call it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: A zoning?
PASTOR BALL: Yeah. We don't want to do that. So we're just
trying to get through with what we have, what's already been
approved. So we need an extension to try to figure out how much time
it's going to take to get all this through.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: How long of an extension do you
think you'll need?
PASTOR BALL: The representative from Phoenix was going to
be here this morning, but he asked me to ask for eight months.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. I asked -- the beginning will
be the shed, the fence the poll barn. They're all going to be taken
down, right?
PASTOR BALL: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So that's -- that would
probably take care of the outstanding violation.
PASTOR BALL: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So if you -- and then you'll go
through the normal process of Phoenix getting the approval of all of
the rest of the stuff that they're doing.
PASTOR BALL: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So are they saying eight months to take
this stuff down? They have to get a demo permit to do that? Phoenix
knows what they're doing.
PASTOR BALL: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
June 22, 2017
Page 7
PASTOR BALL: I don't know exactly, but that's what they
suggested to me. To get approval could take up to 90 days. So once
we get the approval, then we'll start the building project. My goal is to
be in the building by October 2018 with all renovations complete, the
new building built --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Any comments from the
county?
MS. PEREZ: No. We just -- the structures in question --
obviously, the entire project in itself is not part of our code case, but --
so the church could spend their money wisely, since most of them are
donations from their church members; they were already in the process
of doing this project.
They incorporated the permit -- there's one structure that will be
relocated, so that's why they have to wait until the Site Development
Plan is approved so they could relocate the shed to another location to
accommodate the new site plan that they have in mind. There's no
utilities connected to it. They're not being used for anything but for
storage. And in the area where the fence is located, it's a well that's
also going to be located to another area.
I did talk with the builder yesterday, and they are in hopes that if
all goes as planned with their now re-submittal, you know, they
anticipate the plan would be issued to them.
They initially had requested 90 days thinking that that was going
to be the time frame -- that they just needed a time frame for the
project to be issued to them, not understanding that they had to satisfy,
you know, our unpermitted structures in order for our code case to
close.
So that's why today Pastor -- if you see on the letter, he asked for
-- they asked for a shorter time frame anticipating it was just the
issuance of the Site Development Plan. But today they asked for a
little more time so they could complete the project.
June 22, 2017
Page 8
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Comments from the Board or
a motion from the Board?
MR. LAVINSKI: I have one question. According to the
stipulation, this was supposed to be corrected by May 25th, and
Phoenix's letter is dated May 24th. What happened in that 119 days?
PASTOR BALL: Well, I hired a civil engineer to work on it for
me. He took three months; didn't get anything accomplished. I said,
let's go to Phoenix and get Phoenix to do it. So then that's how it kind
of got delayed. Phoenix didn't get it until late.
MR. LAVINSKI: Oh. So there was some action taken in the 119
days?
PASTOR BALL: Oh, yeah. Well, I had allowed Bob Walker's
brother to park his big trailers there. So there was a church renting in
Gulf Coast High School, they had two other trailers parked there, and I
had a landscaper that had a trailer parked there.
So as soon as I got all of this, all the stuff that I had put on there
we got rid of right away. So now it's a matter of we've got to move the
other stuff that's been there for a long time.
MS. PEREZ: If I just may add, too, this site development plan
application was submitted to the county on October 5th, 2016, and
they, you know, had their pre-application meeting, submitted their
project, got rejected, and now they've submitted again for the
corrections.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. LAVINSKI: Okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Mr. Lefebvre?
MR. LEFEBVRE: I make a motion to grant a one-year
continuance.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second.
Any discussion on the motion?
June 22, 2017
Page 9
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hearing none, all those in favor?
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
MR. DOINO: Aye.
MR. LAVINSKI: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Aye.
MS. ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
PASTOR BALL: Thank you, guys.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So that should give you plenty of
time.
PASTOR BALL: Yes, that's great. Thank you.
MS. PEREZ: Thank you.
MS. ADAMS: The next motion for extension of time is from
imposition of fines, No. 1, Tab 9, Case CESD20150017888, Julien
Francois, LLC.
MS. NICOLA: Can I just make one point of clarification on the
last motion. It's a continuance, right?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
MS. NICOLA: Because the request was for an extension, but it's
going to be a continuance.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Correct.
MS. NICOLA: Okay, thank you.
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Good morning. Could you state
your name on the mic.
MS. FRANCOIS: Jessula (phonetic) Francois; Julien, LLC.
June 22, 2017
Page 10
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And you are here to request,
from your letter, a 180-day extension; is that correct?
MS. FRANCOIS: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Can you tell us a little bit
more?
MS. FRANCOIS: I had hired, first, an engineer to do the work
for me and, Joe, he took the money and he never completed -- I mean,
nothing was completed, and I would just keep on coming in here and
asking for time. And it was ridiculous to me.
I'm trying to evict the people that is living there right now. Last
week when I finished -- when I came here -- when I went over there to
evict them, they called the sheriff on me, which was because I had no
right to touch their things without permission. The sheriff said I have
to get an eviction from the court, which is $475.
And I paid the -- I paid $2,000 to get another -- to do another
floor plan for me, and I gave it to Ms. Christina. And I explained the
situation to Ms. Christina.
MS. PEREZ: Just for the record, she gave me a receipt.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Just a sidenote, and maybe you can
help me.
Jeff, you may want to come in.
If the Code Enforcement Board, if this is a safety and health, and
it is because there is electrical and plumbing that is done there, and we
find that it's in violation, shouldn't the Sheriff's Office -- can the
Sheriff's Office be used to have the folks move out of this without
going through the whole eviction process as though they were paying
for -- they weren't paying their rent or whatever, or is that too hard a
question for this early in the morning?
MR. LETOURNEAU: I would think that they'd still have to go
through the eviction process.
MS. PEREZ: Yes. We had a brief discussion last month when
June 22, 2017
Page 11
we were here as far as, you know, how some of our orders say that
they have to cease and desist use, you know, of these unpermitted
buildings, or the buildings with unpermitted utilities, and this wasn't
part of that original order. So I remember the attorney said that, you
know, we couldn't change the order at the moment where we were
discussing this last month.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Let me ask, Tami. When
there is a health-and-safety issue here, I thought that that was
immediate; we didn't have to go through the whole process of a regular
eviction as though it would be an eviction for nonpayment of rent or
whatever.
MS. NICOLA: I think the difficulty is that she is the owner of the
property and she's not living in the property, so I don't know how the
Code Enforcement Board would have the authority to direct that we
could evict somebody who's not a party to this action.
I don't even know, if she was a party to this action, that the Code
Enforcement Board would have the authority to do that. I mean, the
Sheriff's Department, you could call the police and ask them what to
do, but they told you to file an eviction.
MS. FRANCOIS: Yeah. He was going to arrest me for touching
the lady's property because I had no right to touch her property there,
and then I explained to him. I mean, I show him the paperwork, and
he say it doesn't matter; I have no right to touch nobody's property.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No, I understand that.
MS. FRANCOIS: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: My concern is that if a case comes
before the Board -- and they sometimes come in as emergency cases
where there's no water in a home or no electric, and we issue an order
with two or three days to have that property vacated, whether it's the
owner living in there or anybody else. I didn't think we have to go
through the whole process of an eviction, because I know how long
June 22, 2017
Page 12
that takes.
MS. CURLEY: I have a question.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sure.
MS. CURLEY: We had this come up about a year ago. And is
there any infants or children there?
MS. FRANCOIS: No, there's no children in there.
MS. CURLEY: That was what we used -- we were able to go off
of there was a young child.
MS. FRANCOIS: There's no children in there. And some of
them did get out. Some of them -- like, when I talk rush with them,
they did move out. But the immediate family, those are, like, my kids'
family. Those are not my family. Those are my kids' family, and my
kids have to deal with them, you know, at dinner parties and all the
other things.
They're not my family. They're my husband's family and my
kids' family. And the property is under my son's name, but I manage
the property. I keep it -- you know, I keep the grass cut.
So I'm trying to make them move out. They're not, like, you
know -- it's just difficult. So there's only like four of them there so far.
Most of them moved out. As you could see, if you pass by, just put
curtains. There's a lot of them just move out of house.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: As I understood -- I'm going from
memory -- that these people are not paying you any rent.
MS. FRANCOIS: No. I'm not making no money off of it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So these are squatters. Now,
squatters -- if somebody moves into your house while you're out to
lunch and you come home, I would think that you could call the
Sheriff's Department and say, somebody is living in my property. I
don't have any permission for them. There's no lease. There's no
nothing.
MS. PEREZ: I did talk to the Sheriff's Office myself, and some
June 22, 2017
Page 13
of the people claim that they pay rent, so --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: They have receipts and whatnot?
MS. PEREZ: No; verbal. But they claim they pay rent, so the
Sheriff's Office said they've established themselves, you know, there,
so they have to go -- the owner has to go through an eviction process.
MS. CURLEY: Well -- and she said that before, that perhaps her
ex-husband's collecting rent.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Is it in your ex-husband's name?
MS. FRANCOIS: No. It's his family. I don't know what the
contract he have. It is the fact that I don't want to lose the building
because, you know, that's my son's building.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I know. I understand.
MS. FRANCOIS: That's one of the divorce settlement that I
claim. It's the -- it's my son's building, and I don't want to lose it. It's
-- and, like I said, we're not allowed to have communication due to our
prior, you know, history.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No, I understand. I was just trying to
see if there was an easier, less expensive way --
MR. ORTEGA: I have a question.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sure, Herminio.
MR. ORTEGA: Is this a lawfully permitted structure where you
have 20 people living -- is this farm housing or --
MS. FRANCOIS: No, sir. It's not a farmhouse. It's one of the
rooms -- the big room is used for, like, a -- he put bikes there. He fix
bikes, and he sell them at the flea market. The other brother fix
refrigerators.
And the thing is, he cannot stay close to school because he had a
child -- it's something with a child he had, and he cannot stay close to a
school, and he cannot get a job, so he just stayed there so he could, you
know, get some money to put in his pocket. So my ex-husband just
allowed him to stay there. But it's not 20 rooms.
June 22, 2017
Page 14
MR. ORTEGA: It speaks of sleeping rooms.
MS. PEREZ: Herminio, to answer your question, the structure
does somewhat -- the layout of it appears to be a boarding home of
some sort, but there is a zoning verification letter that zoning has issues
-- and Jessula is aware of it -- that it cannot be used for multifamily
purposes. So she's aware that the permitting process she's going to
take is for a single-family home with a lot of rooms.
MR. ORTEGA: So what I hear you say, right now it's in
violation?
MS. PEREZ: Right now it's in violation of, just in general, that
there's no permits for all the alterations, the dividing walls that they've
created.
MR. ORTEGA: Aside from that.
MS. PEREZ: Right.
MR. ORTEGA: But first and foremost is life safety. And to
answer the question, I think it has to be the building official or the Fire
Department to establish that case. It can't be Code Enforcement. And
then you can move on that, without having to have the Sheriff's
Department, I believe.
MS. NICOLA: I think she's either going to have to do an eviction
or an unlawful detainer.
And I wonder why you're not seeking advice of counsel, because
I think it would be very difficult for you to do on your own. I mean,
there's Legal Aid in Immokalee. There are lawyers that do pro bono. I
mean, I think you should do something about it.
MS. FRANCOIS: Yeah, I spoke to Maureen -- I spoke to
Maureen at the Legal Aid by the Florida Community Bank. I went
there. And she's helping me fill out the paper, because I got the
paperwork. I paid $10 for it, and when I bring it back, I got to bring
them $475. So I do -- because it's $475 to get the eviction process.
MS. NICOLA: And they don't have any indigent services there
June 22, 2017
Page 15
for you if you don't have the money?
MS. FRANCOIS: No.
MS. NICOLA: I'm just asking, because I'm pretty familiar with
Legal Aid.
MS. FRANCOIS: I tried. I tried that. I told her I did not have
the money. I tried that, and then she said if you -- and then I would ask
Ms. Cristina, can she give me a letter so I won't have to pay the whole
amount. And Ms. Cristina said you have to $475. So I got the
paperworks. I could just bring it in with the $475. Because I didn't
want to pay the whole amount, the $475.
MS. NICOLA: I mean, the good news is is that there are Legal
Aid services in Immokalee that handle this kind of thing.
MS. FRANCOIS: Yes.
MS. NICOLA: The bad news is I think she's saying she doesn't
have the money to file it. Is that what you're saying right now?
MS. FRANCOIS: I'll have the money -- I'll have the money next
week to file it. It's because I had to pay the new engineer for the
permit plan, which -- it's right here. I had to pay the --
MS. PEREZ: Which is the letter that's in -- that, you should have
received.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It's in the package. Okay. No
problem.
MS. PEREZ: Yes.
MS. FRANCOIS: Yeah, I paid it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. My concern, again, is health
and safety. As Herminio said, whatever -- because the request is for
180 days, and I would hate to think that this thing could be in violation
with electrical and plumbing that was not inspected for six months.
The possibility of a fire or somebody getting hurt or whatever is
always there, so...
MS. NICOLA: I'd like to make a suggestion.
June 22, 2017
Page 16
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Sure.
MS. NICOLA: I don't think the eviction process should take
more than 30 days. I'd like to suggest that we bring it back in 30 days
to she if she followed through with evicting the people. Because,
honestly, if the issue is getting these people out so that she can take
action to correct the problem, I mean, that was -- my understanding is
that that was the issue at the last code enforcement hearing was that the
people were living in the house and she said she couldn't get them out.
So step one is getting them out, and I think it needs to be done
immediately.
MS. PEREZ: Yes. And once that eviction process is done, then
the Sheriff's Office could back that up with the trespass agreement.
MS. FRANCOIS: Yes.
MS. NICOLA: They can actually physically remove them with a
writ of possession from the property so that she doesn't have to do it.
But she has to follow the legal procedure to do it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Anybody from the Board?
MR. LAVINSKI: So we don't need a 180-day extension?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No, you can --
MR. LEFEBVRE: They can withdraw this and just bring it back;
the county can withdraw it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yeah, if you want to pull it and bring
it back next month.
MR. LEFEBVRE: It will give her 35 days.
MS. PEREZ: Then the county agrees to withdraw this case and
bring it back to the next hearing.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's fine.
Okay. So I wish you a lot of luck.
MS. FRANCOIS: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hopefully you can get those folks
out of there.
June 22, 2017
Page 17
MS. PEREZ: So, Jessula, you know, our suggestion is that you
continue with the eviction process. Once you've had that issued,
contact us. We'll contact the Sheriff's Office to then have Julien sign
the trespass agreement with the Sheriff's Office so anybody that is not
on there, they could have them removed from the property, and
hopefully you should have no issues with squatters in the future. Then
we'll come back here, if you so wish to, to ask the Board for a
continuance for your permitting process.
MS. FRANCOIS: Okay. Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. One last by-the-way --
by -the-side conversation. It says that the property is owned by Julien
Francois, LLC. So the LLC, have you looked at that to see how many
names are on the LLC or --
MS. FRANCOIS: Only his name.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Only his name?
MS. FRANCOIS: Yes. It's only his name. Everything is under
his name.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. FRANCOIS: Because when we divorced, everything just
went under -- he didn't want to give me nothing. He just put
everything under the oldest child's name, and I was okay with that.
MS. PEREZ: And Julien gave her authorization to work on this
case for him.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So it makes things more
implicated, but okay.
MS. NICOLA: Good luck.
MS. FRANCOIS: Okay. Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Thank you.
MS. PEREZ: Thank you.
MS. ADAMS: The next case is from Letter B, stipulations, No.
2, Tab 2, Case CESD20160002817, North Naples Properties, LLC.
June 22, 2017
Page 18
(The speaker was duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: John, you want to state your name
on the mic.
MR. HOAGBOON: Yes. For the record, John Hoagboon,
Collier County Code Enforcement.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. The respondent is not
present.
Okay. You're going to present your case.
MR. HOAGBOON: Absolutely. Before we get started, any
questions regarding this, or just go ahead and start with the stipulation?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No. You have a stipulation. You'll
read this into the record, and then if we have any questions, we can go
from there.
MR. HOAGBOON: Okay. Therefore, it is agreed between the
parties that the respondent shall:
One, pay operational costs in the amount of $68.85 incurred in the
prosecution of this case within 30 days of the hearing;
Two, abate all violations by obtaining all required Collier County
building permits or demolition permits, inspections, and certificate of
completion/occupancy for the awning area in front of the business
within 90 days of this hearing, or a fine of $200 per day will be
imposed until the violation is abated;
Three, the respondent must notify Code Enforcement within 24
hours of abatement of the violation and request the investigator
perform a site inspection to confirm compliance;
Four, that if the respondent fails to abate the violation, the county
may abate the violation using any method to bring the violation into
compliance and may use the assistance of the Collier County Sheriff's
Office to enforce the provisions of this agreement, and all costs of
abatement shall be assessed to the property owner.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Any discussion from the
June 22, 2017
Page 19
Board?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Any motion from the Board?
MR. LAVINSKI: Motion to accept the stipulation as written.
MR. DOINO: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second. All
those in favor?
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
MR. DOINO: Aye.
MR. LAVINSKI: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Aye.
MS. ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Thanks, John.
MR. HOAGBOON: Thank you very much.
MS. ADAMS: The next stipulation is No. 1 from hearings, Tab 1,
Case CESD20160017293, Manuel Lopez Parchment.
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Normally now, unless you
have something you want to say before he reads the stipulation, we'll
let him read the stipulation into the record, then I'll ask you if you have
any questions on it, did you agree to it, and then we can vote at that
time.
MR. LOPEZ-SILVERO: Good morning. For the record, Steven
Lopez-Silvero, Collier County Code Enforcement.
Therefore, it is agreed between the parties that the respondent
shall pay operational costs in the amount of $65.01 incurred in the
June 22, 2017
Page 20
prosecution of this case within 30 days of this hearing.
Number 2, obtain all required Collier County building permits to
permit the frame storage building/shed or demolition permit to remove
said structure, requesting (sic) all required inspections and obtaining a
certificate of completion/occupancy within 120 days of this hearing, or
a fine of $250 per day will be imposed until the violation is abated.
Number 3, cease and desist use of unpermitted storage
building/shed as living quarters and disconnect utilities within 24 hours
of this hearing, or a fine of $250 per day will be imposed until the
violation is abated.
Number 4, respondent must notify Code Enforcement within 24
hours of abatement of the violation and request the inspector perform a
site inspection to confirm compliance.
Number 5, that if the respondent fails to abate the violation, the
county may abate the violation using any method to bring the violation
into compliance and may use the assistance of the Collier County
Sheriff's Office to enforce the provisions of this agreement, and all
costs of abatement shall be assessed to the property owner.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Sir, could you state your
name on the microphone.
MR. PARCHMENT: Manuel Lopez Parchment.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You are Manuel Lopez?
MR. PARCHMENT: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You understand everything?
MR. PARCHMENT: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You agree to that, no problem?
MR. PARCHMENT: No problem.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Any discussion from the
Board?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Question. Number 3 states that there may be
people living in this structure?
June 22, 2017
Page 21
MR. PARCHMENT: No living.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No one's living there. It's just
storage?
MR. PARCHMENT: No.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Any other questions from the
Board?
MR. LAVINSKI: Motion to accept the stipulation as written.
MR. DOINO: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second.
Discussion on the motion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hearing none, all those in favor?
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
MR. DOINO: Aye.
MR. LAVINSKI: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Aye.
MS. ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Thank you.
MR. LOPEZ-SILVERO: Thank you.
MS. ADAMS: We have one other change to the agenda under
stipulations. We have another addition. It's going to be No. 8 from
hearings, Tab 8, Case CELU2017004265, 11222 Tamiami, LLC.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Get a motion from the Board
to change the agenda.
MR. DOINO: Make a motion to change the agenda.
June 22, 2017
Page 22
MR. LAVINSKI: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second. All
those in favor?
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
MR. DOINO: Aye.
MR. LAVINSKI: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Aye.
MS. ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Okay. Good morning.
MR. MUSSE: Good morning.
The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Could you state your name
on the microphone?
MR. PURCIELLO: Yes, Steven Purciello.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Do you want to read the
stipulation into the record, and we can go from there.
MR. MUSSE: Good morning. For the record, Investigator
Jonathan Musse, Collier County Code Enforcement.
It is agreed between the parties that the respondent shall: Pay
operational costs in the amount of $66.69 incurred in the prosecution
of this case within 30 days of this hearing and abate all violations by
removing all unauthorized materials from an unimproved property
within 60 days of this hearing, or a fine of $100 per day will be
imposed until the violation's abated.
Respondent must notify Code Enforcement within 24 hours of
abatement of the violation and request the investigator to perform a site
June 22, 2017
Page 23
inspection to confirm compliance.
That if the respondent fails to abate the violation, the county may
abate the violation using any method to bring the violation into
compliance and may use the assistance of the Collier County Sheriff's
Office to enforce the provisions of this agreement, and all costs of
abatement shall be assessed to the property owner.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Do you understand the
stipulation?
MR. PURCIELLO: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And no problem?
MR. PURCIELLO: No problem.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Discussion from the Board?
MR. LAVINSKI: Just one question. Is it really going to take 60
days to remove one container?
MR. PURCIELLO: The issue is there's a permit on the property
to do a fire sprinkler. I'm here as the agent for the owner. We're
having some issues with the permitting process for the sprinkler. So
we're hoping in that period -- the sprinkler pipe for the building is in
the container, so we're hoping within the 60 days, you know, we can
get the pipe into the building and get the container removed. So that's
why we asked for that time. That's all.
MS. CURLEY: I have a question.
MR. PURCIELLO: Yes.
MS. CURLEY: How are you related to the property?
MR. PURCIELLO: I'm the agent for the owner for today.
MS. CURLEY: I just can't see it on paper.
MR. LEFEBVRE: The other question, it says that it's on an
unimproved property.
MR. PURCIELLO: Yes. The owner owns the building that the
permit is for and also the property next door, which is an empty lot.
And by mistake, when they placed the container, they put it, you know,
June 22, 2017
Page 24
onto the empty lot.
MR. LEFEBVRE: If it was placed on the lot that has the building
--
MR. MUSSE: It would be okay. The only thing, there is a
business there, and he would have to take up some parking spots. So
I'm trying to work with him just to give him as much time as possible,
so he doesn't block parking spots for customers.
MR. LEFEBVRE: What's the current status of the permit?
MR. PURCIELLO: There were some issues with it. They had to
get -- with the SDP plan. They're working through that now. We're
working with Cronin Engineering in town. So supposedly they're in
the final stages of getting that cleared up, the issues that they had. So
we're hoping shortly they can do that.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Any other questions from the Board?
MR. LAVINSKI: Motion to accept the stipulation as written.
MR. DOINO: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second. All
those in favor?
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
MR. DOINO: Aye.
MR. LAVINSKI: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Aye.
MS. ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Thank you.
MS. ADAMS: The next case in which we have someone present
is No. 4, Tab 4, Case CESD20160015129, Luis Flores Salceiro.
June 22, 2017
Page 25
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: They must be invisible. They have
vanishing cream.
MR. MUCHA: Sorry about that.
(Jackie de la Paz, the interpreter, was duly sworn to translate from
English to Spanish and Spanish to English to the best of her ability.)
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Good morning, Joe.
MR. MUCHA: Good morning. This is in reference to Case No.
CESD20160015129 dealing with violations of Collier County Land
Development Code 04-41, as amended, Section 3.05.01.B,
10.02.06(B)(1)(e), and 10.02.06(B)(1)(c), and Code of Laws Chapter
22, Article IV, Section 22-108.
Violation description is site work, improvement of property,
grading and removal of protected vegetation using heavy machinery
without a permit that would allow for the same;
Two, alteration of land through placement of fill that removed or
otherwise destroyed vegetation without first obtaining approval from
the county;
Three, damaging native vegetation by the use of heavy machinery
to remove exotic and nonnative vegetation.
Violation location is 2298 Everglades Boulevard South; Folio
41287600004.
Personal service was given on November 19th, 2016.
I'd like to present case evidence in the following exhibits. I have
eight photographs taken by Michaelle Crowley dated September 15th,
2016, and a copy of the Wetland Determination Report and map.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Has the respondent seen the
photos?
MR. MUSSE: Yes, sir.
MR. LAVINSKI: Motion to accept.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hang on. Do you have any problem
June 22, 2017
Page 26
with the photos?
MR. SALCEIRO: No.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. LAVINSKI: Motion to accept.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion to accept.
MR. DOINO: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And a second. All those in favor?
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
MR. DOINO: Aye.
MR. LAVINSKI: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Aye.
MS. ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
MR. MUCHA: Can I have her sworn in so she can kind of
explain the photos, since she was the one that took them.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Good morning, Michaelle.
MS. CROWLEY: Good morning.
(The speaker was duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
MS. CROWLEY: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Good morning.
MS. CROWLEY: For the record, Michelle Crowley,
Environmental Specialist for Collier County.
This is a photograph taken of several of the piles of fill. That's
particularly crushed up asphalt. It's got pavement and the chemicals
that come from the road, and in the background are the multiple piles
of gravel.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Can I ask what size lot this was.
June 22, 2017
Page 27
MS. CROWLEY: I think -- I believe it's an acre and a half.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: One fifty by -- oh. Okay.
MS. CROWLEY: It is 1.64 acres.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. CROWLEY: Next one.
MS. CURLEY: Hundred feet of street front.
MS. CROWLEY: This is looking toward the south toward the
line of the adjacent property which is toward the wetlands area. And
you'll see from the map where the wetlands have been determined on
the property. So it shows the vegetation has been cleared, cut, and
pushed to the south, as well as some of the vegetation debris that's
remaining.
This is a view looking directly to the east from about halfway in
the property toward the rear line. You see that -- and toward the center
there's the one pine tree, and that marks the boundary line, the property
line between them and the property to the east.
That trailer was on site. I don't know who it belongs to, but we're
looking at a long view from halfway back on the property looking at
everything that's been cleared, all without permits.
This is looking toward the west. Behind the county vehicle,
which is at the extreme right, is the driveway that was excavated with
just dirt. There were some, like, concrete chunks that had hardened,
and so that's how we were able to get access to the property.
So you're looking to the west, and in the foreground is some of
the piles, the previous piles of asphalt and gravel that you can see
spread out behind that in between the two piles.
This is just a representative photograph showing some of the
vegetation debris. Most of it was all pushed to the side. There were no
larger trunks, so to speak, but there were smaller cabbage palms, and
this is just showing that some of it was green. It was not dead
vegetation. It was alive when it was cleared.
June 22, 2017
Page 28
The equipment that was used actually caused harm to the trees
that were left standing. There were some that were left standing, some
oak trees and some cypress trees, but the blade of the machine actually
ripped off branches, entire large sections of the trees, and that's just one
of those.
This photograph is representative of some of that same damage to
a different tree, you'll see the recent gouge marks on the bark of the
tree, as well as the gravel has been placed within the drip line of the
native vegetation, and the roots extend at least as far as the drip line
does, so it causes sometimes irreparable harm of the root systems of
those hardwood trees, especially slash pines and cypress trees.
Again, this is -- I'm looking directly to the west. That large tree in
the back marks pretty much the property line. And, again, it's just
showing that what had been there is no longer there; the vegetation.
This is in the rear, so it's in the area where the gravel was not
placed. The gravel and the fill was not placed -- it wasn't spread out
completely.
This is a map that was -- can you turn it the other direction.
MS. ADAMS: This way?
MS. CROWLEY: No, east and west, the long way; so that the
writing is upside down, actually.
MS. ADAMS: Like that?
MS. CROWLEY: No. Everglades Boulevard should be on the
left of the property.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yeah, one more.
MS. CROWLEY: One more turn.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: There you go.
MS. CROWLEY: There you go.
So from Everglades property was the frontage of the property.
The wetlands is pretty much one -- approximately one-third along the
southern or right edge of the property, and the wetland determination
June 22, 2017
Page 29
was done in November or December of 2016 by Collier County after
the code case was open, after the stop work order was issued.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's the black --
MS. CROWLEY: The hashed marks is the wetland area as
determined by physical inspection by somebody qualified by the DEP
to do an informal wetland determination at the county.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. CROWLEY: And it's within that area where some of the
gravel is placed, where a lot of the clearing has taken place where the
vegetation was pushed to the south.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. I have a couple of questions
that may help us. Question number one, was there a permit of any
kind on that piece of property?
MS. CROWLEY: No.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No. As I you understand the rules,
anything, an acre, you need a permit to do any kind of clearing,
especially with heavy equipment?
MS. CROWLEY: Well, let's just clarify. A building permit,
once issued by the county, does grant approval to remove one acre of
vegetation, native and nonnative.
The county would never have issued a permit for any kind of
work until the DEP had weighed in on the wetlands on the property.
So before they can apply for a building permit at the county level,
they're going to have to work with the DEP and mitigate any impacts
to the wetlands that either the already-completed work has done or any
intended construction would do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And was this reported by a
neighbor-type complaint or a drive-by?
MS. CROWLEY: No. This one -- it came in from the
Transportation Department who saw the temporary driveway, you
know, with the fill brought in across the swale. You know, they
June 22, 2017
Page 30
noticed -- and that clearly doesn't meet code. They recognized it, that
it was just done by somebody with machinery crossing that, so they
reported it to the county.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Now this is, as I see, nine
months ago approximately?
MS. CROWLEY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And you've had discussions with the
respondent?
MS. CROWLEY: I have not. I was not the assigned investigator.
I was, with the consultant, helped Code Enforcement in dealing with it.
I was on site during the first initial inspection, and I took all the
photographs.
Investigator Serna, who does speak Spanish, actually did
communicate with the owner. I did receive a phone call from a woman
on behalf of the owner, and he was there, and so we did have a long
discussion after he discovered the stop work order on his property.
And I've worked with Investigator Serna in the past in answering
questions. Subsequent to the stop work order, subsequent to the owner
reaching out to the county to say what do I need to do, he did obtain --
apply and obtain a right-of-way permit for the driveway access to the
property. He did apply for and obtain a fence permit for the perimeter
fence, but that's pretty much where we are at the county level. He
cannot get any more building approvals for a building permit, for
instance, for a house from the county until he works with the DEP and
mitigates the impacts to the wetlands.
And then once he has either that environmental resource permit
from the DEP or an exemption letter from the DEP that says it hasn't
been affected -- which I don't think that will happen, but that is one of
the options -- then he can apply for a building permit to the county.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Anything else?
MS. CURLEY: I have a question.
June 22, 2017
Page 31
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Go ahead.
MS. CURLEY: Just maybe secondary to the -- so do you know
who actually did this for them?
MS. CROWLEY: The owner did. He did it himself.
MS. CURLEY: Oh. And then can you explain to me the tar; like,
what does it do? I mean, how is it damaging?
MS. CROWLEY: It has petroleum chemicals. If it's pavement,
you know, it has the oily things. But you can buy it at a place that sells
gravel. You can just get broken up pavement.
MS. CURLEY: So it's a fill that's commonly used, or no?
MS. CROWLEY: It's used pretty often. I'm not saying that it
would necessarily be ever approved inside of a wetlands, but...
MS. CURLEY: That's what I was asking. Okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yeah. The whole point is, there's no
building permit to do what was done.
MS. CROWLEY: That is correct.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So regardless of what is on the site
or -- okay.
MS. CROWLEY: Yes. And we've had discussions this morning
and tried to explain to the owner and Jackie, his translator, that even if
he chooses not to apply for the building permit -- but I understand he
does. But even if he chooses not to, the property still has to be
restored, and the harm that was caused has to be fixed.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Why don't we go to the
respondent.
Good morning.
MR. SALCEIRO: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Do you speak enough
English to talk with us or not?
MR. SALCEIRO: No.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No. Okay. We'd like to hear your
June 22, 2017
Page 32
side of the story; if you have any questions of the county.
THE INTERPRETER: He came from Spain approximately two
years and four months, was unaware. He bought the property, was
unaware that he couldn't do that. He had gone in with a machete and
cleared out what he could with the machete, but he got full of poison
ivy, and that's when he went to go get -- got the Bobcat.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
THE INTERPRETER: He said they had the two little survey
sticks that they put up, and he went by that, and he did what he did.
How the dirt and everything got there -- he drives the -- that's
what he does for a living. He drives a dump truck, and he brought the
dirt over so that when he -- because he's going to do his house by
owner. And he brought the dirt to have it there so that when he started
building -- but he was unaware. He didn't know.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: He's unaware of the rules?
THE INTERPRETER: Right. He didn't know -- he didn't know
anything about any permits or anything like that.
I've only known them for approximately a year now, but
everything was already starting to roll when -- you know, because I
know because I live close by, but --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
THE INTERPRETER: Everything was already -- had already
happened.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: In his discussion with the county,
they made him aware of the rules at that time. Did he offer some
suggestion on what he would do to --
THE INTERPRETER: All the material that was there that wasn't
supposed to be there, he's removed it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
THE INTERPRETER: And they did tell him that -- they did -- he
did the driveway, did the fence -- the fence and hasn't done anything
June 22, 2017
Page 33
else. And now he gets his plans for the house next week. He receives
the plans so that he can go get permits and do what he's got -- go to the
DEP --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
THE INTERPRETER: -- and do what he's got to do. They didn't
know.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. No, I understand.
Okay. Any questions from the Board?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I guess my first question is, does a
violation exist?
MR. LAVINSKI: Yeah. I'll make a motion that a violation does
exist.
MR. DOINO: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second that
a violation exists. Any discussion on that?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hearing none, all those in favor?
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
MR. DOINO: Aye.
MR. LAVINSKI: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Aye.
MS. ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Now we know a violation exists. What can be done? So any
suggestions, comments from the Board?
MR. LEFEBVRE: I guess a couple questions.
June 22, 2017
Page 34
Where in the process of a permit for the house to be built are you?
THE INTERPRETER: He has not gave -- he didn't have one yet.
He went to the -- okay. He went to the architect, and the architect gave
him some papers that, by next week, he will have everything ready so
that he can go get his permits:
MR. LEFEBVRE: He still has to go to DEP, correct --
THE INTERPRETER: Right.
MR. LEFEBVRE: -- to get a determination? Is that in the
works?
THE INTERPRETER: Correct.
MR. LEFEBVRE: How long does it take?
THE INTERPRETER: They told him that until he had his plans,
that they couldn't work with him yet, because they need to know, I
guess, where the house is going to be built in order to -- I guess.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Right.
MS. CROWLEY: Right. The DEP will need to know what's
going to be on site, where it's going to be, where those are in relation to
the wetlands on site.
MR. LEFEBVRE: See how much he has to mitigate?
MS. CROWLEY: That is correct. So without those plans, they
really can't make a decision.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So he is aware of the steps
that need to be done to resolve the situation. He gets the plans, where
they're going to put the house, goes to DEP.
THE INTERPRETER: I'm going to help them with this.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So that's where we stand
now. Do you have any idea how long this process is going to take?
THE INTERPRETER: He says as soon as possible.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. I'm guessing that if
everything went properly, it would probably take about a year to
complete the construction of the house and whatnot. But as long as the
June 22, 2017
Page 35
property is mitigated in whatever way it needs to be mitigated, that's a
different date.
MR. LEFEBVRE: The permit would negate the need to bring the
property back to the original state, correct? So once he receives --
MS. CROWLEY: It would unless it's been cleared -- the impacts
are more than one acre in size --
MR. LEFEBVRE: Right, right.
MS. CROWLEY: -- because if that's the case, and I believe that
it is based upon my calculations and the amounts that I paced off, I
believe it will over one acre -- he's looking at hiring an environmental
consultant to submit a mitigation plan to restore that part of it which
would not be allowed by the building permit for the home, that is
correct. And if he -- I did not realize until this morning that he was
going to be building it himself. So a year might even been optimistic.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Well, he doesn't necessarily have to have a
CO on the house, but he can work concurrently with building a house
and mitigating the land.
MS. CROWLEY: Correct.
MR. LEFEBVRE: I don't care how long he takes to build the
house. What we care about is how long it takes to mitigate --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: The violation.
MS. CROWLEY: Right. And the vegetation -- replacement
vegetation typically would not go in until he was ready and there
weren't going to be any more, you know, trucks driving over where the
trees are going to be placed, and you'd want to coordinate it as much as
possible with rainy season, with irrigation systems. So there's some
factors that the replanting of the vegetation would probably be one of
the last things to occur, that is correct.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Did you try to come up with some
stipulation on this with the respondent?
MS. CROWLEY: We tried. One of the problems is is the
June 22, 2017
Page 36
uncertainty of the timing involved. We did ask -- with getting the
plans for the house in a week, he believes that he might be able to
apply and have all the documents needed to apply to the DEP within
30 days.
And at that point, the rest of it was premised on this many days
after the DEP acts, apply for a building permit, but we didn't get that
far.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. At this point I'd like to ask
the county, unless the Board has some more comments, on what their
suggestion is.
MS. CROWLEY: Want to go ahead and read it?
MR. MUCHA: Bear with me, here.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. MUCHA: That the Code Enforcement Board orders the
respondent to pay all operational costs in the amount of $67.64
incurred in the prosecution of this case within 30 days, and abate all
violations by:
One, must apply for an environmental resource permit from the
Florida Department of Environmental Protection for review of existing
and/or proposed site alteration or for an exemption letter from the
Florida Department of Environmental Protection for clearing and/or
proposed construction for a residence within the wetland areas and
must mitigate with the DEP as necessary to offset impacts to wetlands
within blank days of this hearing, or a fine of blank for each day the
violation continues;
Two, any vegetation removal, clearing, fill impacts that have
already occurred and which cannot be mitigated through approvals by
the DEP must be restored to original condition through the
implementation of a mitigation plan submitted within 45 days of action
by the DEP, which mitigation plan meets the criteria pursuant to
Collier County Land Development Code Section 10.02.06(D)(3)(a),
June 22, 2017
Page 37
(b), (c), (d), and (e), and upon approval of mitigation plan must
complete the installation of all required plantings to restore native
vegetation and all three strata within 30 days of plan approval.
The mitigation plans shall be prepared by a person who meets or
exceeds the credentials specified in the Land Development Code or
Chapter 7 of the Administrative Code unless waived by the County
Manager or designee and must be approved by Collier County;
Three, within blank days of receipt of ERP or exemption letter
from DEP, must apply for a building permit for construction of
residence. If the fill material brought on site is not approved for use as
part of the building permit, must remove fill from the property within
blank days of final action by DEP;
Four, must hire an environmental consultant within blank days of
this hearing to submit a Time Zero Monitoring Report with
photographs of all native trees which are not located within areas
intended for construction of a residence and that have not -- and that
have been affected by mechanical clearing.
Affected trees shall include, but are not limited to, trees which
may have had root systems compacted by mechanical clearing using
heavy machinery and trees which have been directly damaged by fill or
by the blade, wheels, or body of the heavy machinery;
Must include with the Time Zero Monitoring Report a restoration
plan to include replacement strategy of any dead or dying native trees
that may occur within a one-year period. Dead or dying native trees
impacted by machinery or fill shall be replaced with like species and
monitored to ensure 80 percent survivability for a period of no less
then three years.
All replacement trees shall meet size, grade, and canopy spread
with minimum Collier County standards and must be planted within 30
days of approval of the plan of the county.
Lastly, the respondent must notify the code enforcement
June 22, 2017
Page 38
investigator when the violations have been abated in order to conduct
the final inspection to confirm abatement. If the respondent fails to
abate the violations, the county may abate the violations using any
methods to bring the violations into compliance and may use the
assistance of the Collier County Sheriff's Office to enforce the
provisions of this order, and all costs of abatement shall be assessed to
the property owner.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Could you be more specific?
Okay. Now, this is going to take some work.
We have a question.
MR. LAVINSKI: I have a question of the respondent. In
general, does he feel he has the financial wherewithal and the energy to
pursue this process, which is not going to be an easy one?
THE INTERPRETER: Thirty days, he said, for the vegetation
process?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yeah. We can adjust the days. But
the question is, are you going to do it? Do you have the money to do
it?
THE INTERPRETER: He's going to do it, but little by little.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. CURLEY: So -- excuse me. So in the stipulation that we
just read, it states that he would be required to hire an environmental
engineer to assist with the rehabitation (sic) of the plants that were
destroyed. Is that an expense that he has in his budget for his new
home?
THE INTERPRETER: Do we know what we're talking about?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: How much money, you mean?
MS. CURLEY: That's why I'm asking, because it's part of your
budget now. And if you sign this, then --
THE INTERPRETER: His question is, how much is it going to
cost?
June 22, 2017
Page 39
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We don't know that at this point.
MS. CURLEY: That's your question. It's for you.
THE INTERPRETER: Well, he doesn't know what it's going to
cost to do it. I mean, if it's going to cost, like --
MS. CURLEY: So --
THE INTERPRETER: I mean, he's wanting to. He wants to do
it.
MS. CURLEY: I guess I'm -- just myself, this makes me very
unhappy, and it's -- and it's unfortunate because there is a lot of our
county dollars now to assist him because when he moved here he didn't
ask for help first. So now to ask for, you know, permission to fix this
now, it's -- you know, it's an exhausting task for a lot of officials.
And what we just heard was that it's going to be monitored for
three years, his property, by officials to make sure that these plants are
still alive.
THE INTERPRETER: He says yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
THE INTERPRETER: How long does he get to do this?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well, before we get to that, you have
a question?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Well, I guess a statement. This
recommendation was written without the knowledge that a house was
planned on being built.
MS. CROWLEY: No, it was -- I tried to cover both. I tried to
cover both, because when you -- when you do -- the recommendations
you mean?
MR. LEFEBVRE: This recommendation, was it drafted with the
knowledge that a house was going to be built on this property?
MS. CROWLEY: I can't say that he's going to follow through on
it, but the answer is yes, we anticipated that the owner would be
following one; his desire was to put a home on the property, yes.
June 22, 2017
Page 40
MR. LEFEBVRE: Okay. Because it says that action has to be
taken after ERP permit has been received, but then the house isn't
going to be completed in 45 days.
MS. CROWLEY: No. The first suggestion was apply for the
building permit within 30 days after whatever action the DEP took.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Okay.
MS. CROWLEY: But if he chose not to go through, after he
realizes what the cost might be, we still had to anticipate what if the
house never gets built.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Right. If the house doesn't get built, then,
hypothetically, if all the land was cleared, 1.6 acres would have to be
revegetated to the standards of the environmental --
MS. CROWLEY: Including the wetlands area, that's correct.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Right. But if the house is built, then there's
less that has to be --
MS. CROWLEY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well, let me see if I can simplify
things.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Yeah, because this is going to be --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. To begin with --
MS. CURLEY: Wait a minute. Wait. I have a question before
you go. So --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. CURLEY: The gentleman has purchased this with an
agreement for deed, which means he doesn't really own it until 85
months from November. So will the county issue a permit to
somebody who isn't really in physically (sic) ownership of it to him to
build it?
MR. LEFEBVRE: He's in ownership of it. It's just a mortgage he
has on it. Most people have mortgages.
MS. CURLEY: Well, it's slightly different. He doesn't own it.
June 22, 2017
Page 41
He owns it -- it's a combination, so it's slightly different possession. It's
not -- he doesn't own it and then he got a mortgage.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Let me try this. Who's paying tax on
the property?
MR. DOINO: There you go.
MS. CURLEY: It sometimes often doesn't matter.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: He's paying taxes.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Mortgage amount. Sales price, 24,000;
mortgage amount, 17,000. Eighty-five payments at $200 a month
equals $17,000.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So let me go back to -- ah,
they're having a meeting over there. Let me see if I can make this a
little simpler.
As I understand it, Number 1, there's a violation. Number 2, the
violation right now has to do with the lot being cleared and the
problem with the wetlands. That's what I see right now.
In order to come into compliance -- and I'm not talking about
dates. In order to come into compliance, you are going to have to go to
DEP?
MS. CROWLEY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And in order to go to DEP, you have
to tell them, if you intend on building a house, where the house is
going to go.
MS. CROWLEY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So the first thing is, you have plans
for a house, and the plans probably show where the house is going to
sit on the property.
MS. CROWLEY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Then when you take that to DEP
they say, you have to do this or that to bring the property into
compliance. And until --
June 22, 2017
Page 42
MS. CROWLEY: We don't use the word "bring into
compliance." They would have to mitigate for the value of the impacts
to the wetlands.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And at that time the county
can issue a building permit.
MS. CROWLEY: Yes, because the environmental resource
permit from the DEP will have his plan attached. And the only plan --
building plan that he can apply for is one that matches what he
submitted to the DEP.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So we have now gone -- now,
going back to Sue's question about, in order for him to go to DEP to
provide his plans, he probably will need help from some sort of a
specialist that says this is what you have to do to get the property in
compliance so that you can get a building permit. We agree?
MS. CROWLEY: Agreed, yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Sue, will you agree? We don't
know how much it's going to cost, but he's going to need one of those
people, okay?
And then, he needs the time -- one second. Then he needs the
time to have a response from DEP. I'm trying to make this a little
simpler if I can.
Yes?
THE INTERPRETER: Now, meaning help, help from the county
that they're going to help him pay for it or --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Somebody's going to have to help
him in his working with DEP.
THE INTERPRETER: Yeah, okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So the DEP is going to look for this,
kind of, tree over here or whatever it is, so he could probably --
MR. LEFEBVRE: Environmental specialist.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: The environmental person, before he
June 22, 2017
Page 43
submits to DEP, if he had that person helping him, I'm sure it would be
well worthwhile.
THE INTERPRETER: Right.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We're okay so far?
MS. CROWLEY: (Nods head.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Now, at this point, once he
goes to DEP and they tell him what they have to do to restore the
property, this case goes away. We don't care if it takes him a week, a
month, a year, 10 years to build the house, as long as he's in
compliance with the building codes.
MS. CROWLEY: Correct.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. CROWLEY: Although, the DEP typically would not require
him to restore the vegetation. They would say that the impacts to the
wetlands, according to their calculations, amount to X dollars. He will
write them a check for X dollars, which they use to purchase other
wetland properties, to preserve them throughout the state.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. CROWLEY: But they will not say to him, plant this many
trees on the property. That will be for the environmental consultant's
determination and calculation after doing a survey of the adjacent
properties, two of which are still undisturbed --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. CROWLEY: -- to see what kind of vegetation was there,
would have been there and, assuming that it goes over one acre, what it
would take to restore --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: The excess --
MS. CROWLEY: -- the excess.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- of the one-acre property to its
original state.
MS. CROWLEY: Yes.
June 22, 2017
Page 44
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So let's -- I would like to
follow your format, Joe, but --
MR. MUCHA: By all means.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So let's just start with Item 1. You
have the building plans almost completed to build a house?
THE INTERPRETER: He should receive them next week.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. ORTEGA: Can I pipe in a minute?
MS. CURLEY: Yes, please.
MR. ORTEGA: Remember that it's not just the building plans.
It's your septic field, if there's a storage building, if there's a pool. Any
impervious structure has to be noted. The environmental consultant
will aid him in providing what trees, what plants need to be replanted,
also location of a structure to minimize the impact on the -- to the
various (sic).
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So help us out here. You're
the expert on this.
So, number one, you have the building plans. You now go and get
some assistance, I would think, to take to the DEP to get them working
on an approval. We agree?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: How much time would we allow --
let's see. This is one week here -- to resolve the DEP issues, hiring
somebody, have them propose what needs to be done, et cetera, et
cetera?
MR. ORTEGA: Probably about 60 days.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Let's make it three months.
MR. ORTEGA: If the plans are all -- as he stated, they're ready
to be picked up. But does he have his drain field plans ready as well?
THE INTERPRETER: No.
MR. ORTEGA: Add to that another two weeks.
June 22, 2017
Page 45
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So three months?
THE INTERPRETER: They have not done that yet.
MR. ORTEGA: Minimum.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So now the building plans are
ready in a week. We add all this up and we're at three months, maybe
even four months before he can go to DEP.
MS. CURLEY: Does the timeline change when you're a
builder/owner?
MR. ORTEGA: No.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No. A code is a code.
So let's just say that's four months. And we can adjust these as -- I'm
just trying to get a baseline.
MR. ORTEGA: When you're an owner/builder, you're acting as a
contractor with all the responsibilities that a contractor has, actually,
according to Chapter 49. So it's not different.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So let's say four months. We
can change it. I'm just trying to come up with a timeline. Four
months, he has hired somebody to take a look at the property, see what
needs to be done and is ready to take his building plans, that includes a
septic field, to DEP for their approval. Okay?
DEP will take how long, round figures?
MR. ORTEGA: Probably about 30 days.
MS. CROWLEY: I think 60 might be closer.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Sixty days. So we have two
months for DEP approval, and then he goes to the county and submits
everything. And that would take...
MR. ORTEGA: The county's going to -- they're going to be
under a five-day PMR, but the Health Department's not going to
parallel that. They try to. So I would add probably another 15 days to
that date. But there's one thing that I left out, and this is for you.
When you consider permitting and you have your plans and your
June 22, 2017
Page 46
Health Department information, you're probably going to have to
undergo a Type A drainage design as well. So now he has to hire a
civil engineer to be able to perform that task. So that -- you can add
another week or two to that.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So the county probably won't
-- maybe I'm being generous, or too generous. But let's say it's going
to take another three months to get your building permit issued, that
includes the drainage fields and everything else. Okay. How many
months did I say? Three, okay.
Okay. At that point can we get ourselves into compliance here
somehow? And no because?
MR. LEFEBVRE: I would say no because everything hasn't been
restored.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well, we'll give him time to restore
it. You have to know what to do first before you can restore it.
MS. CROWLEY: Well, I mean, while this is happening, while
the permitting is going through, his environmental consultant will be --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Able to restore it.
MS. CROWLEY: Not -- well, they have to do a survey, they
have to submit a plan to the county to say here's the numbers of the
trees, the ground cover, the number of shrubs that we calculate were
impacted by it, and then it would be reviewed by the county and
approved and give the thumbs-up and say, yes, that is acceptable.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Your testimony earlier stated that this
wouldn't be done until --
MS. CROWLEY: Correct. I'm not saying it's going to --
MR. LEFEBVRE: -- the house was completed.
MS. CROWLEY: Normally you don't want to put the vegetation
where the construction equipment is going to be going through,
because why waste the money if it's going to be damaged or --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You're not going to plant a tree and
June 22, 2017
Page 47
then dig a hole for a septic.
MS. CROWLEY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. I got it.
MS. CROWLEY: There's a normal chronology that you would
do. So that restoration would typically come at the end.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Now --
MR. LEFEBVRE: So let's include construction of the house.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well, he can come into compliance
before construction of the house.
MR. LEFEBVRE: He could. One way would be to not build the
house and restore --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well, it depends what the DEP says
and what the environmental people say on where you have to put the
trees, et cetera.
But I'm adding up the time now. Some of this stuff can be done
currently, but I'm at three, five, eight. I'm at eight months, okay. I
would think if we came up with a plan that showed eight months, with
the ability to come back to the Board after eight months to say he's in
compliance or he needs more time based on all the things he's done, we
would be in a situation that could work.
How am I doing, Jeff?
MR. LETOURNEAU: He's never going to be -- he's got really
two options. He can build the house and then mitigate whatever is
above an acre that he's allowed to clear for the house --
MS. CROWLEY: Yes.
MR. LETOURNEAU: -- or he could restore the property
according to what they put out there on their recommendation.
Obviously, it would be a lot better to build the house because to restore
it at this point the other way is going to be really costly. Let's be
honest about that.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well -- and he won't know that until
June 22, 2017
Page 48
he speaks to DEP. They may say to restore over an acre is going to
cost you $2,500 for plants or whatever, and maybe that's the way he
may want to go. But you don't know that until it happens.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Well, I mean, he's not just dealing with
DEP. He's dealing with the county also. I mean, DEP is the wetland.
The county's going to want, you know, mitigation on the trees in the
three strata and everything else. So he's dealing with both areas on that
one right there.
If he builds a house, gets the DEP approval, you know, pays
whatever fine they're going to levy on him and then mitigates, you
know, whatever is above an acre is going to be a lot easier than going
the other route.
So I would say that I doubt he's going to go to the -- replanting of
the whole property. So I see the way you're going here.
Yeah, give him the eight months option to have the permit issued,
but to get full mitigation it's going to take inspections, CO, and the
mitigation of the remaining whatever above acre (sic) he's cleared.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yeah. I think eight months is fair,
and it can come back at that time if it's not done, and we can see the
progress that's being made.
MR. LETOURNEAU: However, though, if you just put it on
here, he's got to get his permit issued in eight months. Will you be
able to go back after that eight months and compel him to get the
inspections and the CO and mitigate the rest of the property?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well, in eight months, he needs to
come into compliance based on the code case. That's it.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Okay. I'm not getting that then. I'm
sorry.
MS. CROWLEY: No. You mean eight months even to apply for
the building permit?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No, no, no, no. Whatever it takes to
June 22, 2017
Page 49
take Paragraph 2 and comply with it, the description of the violation.
MS. CURLEY: I don't -- I just think adding what somebody
might do in the future to their property is really not part of this case. I
think it just makes it more complex that we should be considering that
he's going to build a house.
The case is the clearing, and so however he amends that,
whatever our timeline that we give him, whether it be six months or 60
days, if he has to come back, he has to come back. But, you know,
there's the time frame now that's in place because questions weren't
asked in the beginning. Had this person asked for assistance in the
beginning, they would have a better grasp on the money and the time
and the materials that they need.
So I don't think giving somebody eight months to come back, you
know, is -- I think you're taking into consideration part of the case that
doesn't exist.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Well, I mean, if you give him the building
permit option, you could stagger it with, you have to have the permit
issued in eight months, but you're still going to have to have something
on here that, you know, tells him he has to get his inspections and CO
and take care of the rest of the property.
He just can't say, okay, I got my permit; I come back here in eight
months. What happens if he never follows through and builds the
house?
MS. CURLEY: Well, that's my point is that you give him a short
amount of time to figure out the expenses that it's going to incur, and
so if you have backup expenses that are going to cost as much to
correct the offense -- you know, what if it costs as much to fix it as it
does the build the house? Well, that's not an economic, you know,
transaction that anyone wants to enter into. He may fix the land and
move on.
But that's, again, not our problem, but we at least need to give this
June 22, 2017
Page 50
person who -- I mean, let's bear in mind that I'm having trouble
following this, and this is this man's second language, so he's having
somebody interpret this for him.
So if I'm having trouble following this -- and I'm pretty astute
about stuff like this -- it's going to be, you know, a really tough thing
for this man to achieve, understanding and in complying with all this.
So I think just maybe a smaller window where we can monitor it
better where -- if we have to take a different, you know, direction, and
stop thinking about the house that's not yet planned yet.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Well, yeah, this is tough. I'm sorry. I was
-- you know, you could go with Step 1, working with -- like you
already laid out, the eight months, have the permit issued. Step --
within -- all right, eight months.
Step 2, build the house within the next 12 months after the permit
was issued. Then you could put an "or" in there, or mitigate all the
vegetation in the DEP per what Michaelle would require as far as the
Land Development Code would require. He'd either build the house or
replant the property.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yeah. I don't want to see us put in
there you have to build a house by any date because it's not part of the
violation. We want to -- I mean, it would be simple for us to just say,
you have to answer the description of violation, bring it into
compliance in six month, end of case. How you do it is up to you. We
could say that, and that would -- that is something you can do.
What we're trying to do is help the respondent to know what has
to be done to do that, and maybe we're going too into the weeds too
deeply to do that, but someone could say, I make a motion that we say
we give the respondent six months to come into compliance. Done.
Am I wrong?
MR. LAVINSKI: Well, I wonder where we are if the DEP comes
back and says, okay, the mitigation fee is 30- or $50,000.
June 22, 2017
Page 51
MR. LEFEBVRE: The DEP's not going to come back with a
determination on what it's going to cost.
MS. CURLEY: The fine, he's saying.
MR. LAVINSKI: No, the fine. He's violating wetlands.
MS. CROWLEY: They call it mitigation.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Because -- this is how the --
MR. LAVINSKI: Same; mitigation fee.
MR. LEFEBVRE: -- mitigation works is because you're
destroying part of your property, you have to pay to purchase
somewhere else.
MR. LAVINSKI: Right. And that fee is $50,000.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Probably won't be 50-.
MS. CROWLEY: It probably will not be $50,000.
MR. LAVINSKI: How about 30-?
MS. CROWLEY: It depends upon the extent of it and the quality
of the wetlands. You know, they rank the wetlands according to their
quality.
MR. LAVINSKI: Okay. So we don't have any idea?
MS. CURLEY: Is it $50 or 50,000?
MR. LAVINSKI: So why don't we just get ourselves up to that
point?
MS. CURLEY: Just for educational purposes.
MR. LAVINSKI: Get the DEP approval.
MS. CROWLEY: It might be the 10- to $15,000 range.
MR. LEFEBVRE: There's way too many variables.
MR. DOINO: Bring this back?
MR. LEFEBVRE: No.
MR. ORTEGA: How about a 90-day period just to gather intel so
the man knows where he stands, and then he could come back to the
Board.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I think that's an excellent idea.
June 22, 2017
Page 52
MR. DOINO: I like that one.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: If that's in the form of a motion, I will
second it.
MS. CURLEY: So that was very helpful, that bit of information,
because --
THE COURT REPORTER: I need one at a time. I'm having
trouble.
MS. CURLEY: So that information about the DEP --
MR. DOINO: Yeah. I'll make a motion; 90 days.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hold on one second. We're going to
talk one at a time, or you need two more hands. Okay.
Mr. Doino wants to make a motion. Go ahead.
MR. DOINO: Make a motion for 90 days; that we come back
and see what's said from the DEP.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: I will second that motion.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Can I throw a suggestion in there so
we don't make this -- that it's -- we bring it back. It's not a
continuance. There are no fines accruing, et cetera, so that we just
come back in 90 days after the respondent has had an opportunity to do
his due diligence, and then we'd be in more of a position to resolve the
situation.
MS. CURLEY: I think -- I don't -- what's Jeff shaking his head
for?
MR. LETOURNEAU: I mean, I'm not sure we're going to be any
better off 90 days from now. Have you found a violation?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes, we did.
MR. LETOURNEAU: I mean --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well, in 90 days he will have had an
opportunity to have his building plans and go to DEP to see what the
story is.
MS. CURLEY: Well, again, you keep talking about the building
June 22, 2017
Page 53
plans. It's not like you're a partner with him on this. It's not -- that's
not our board's business; his --
MR. LAVINSKI: He needs the plans to --
MS. CURLEY: If he finds out that he has a $15,000 mitigation
fee that he has to pay -- he paid $20,000 for the lot -- that's not going to
work out. It's just not in the cards. So I think we need to take it baby
steps. But there's a fine. I don't know why we -- I think the fines -- we
found that there's a violation happening, and I think if we put money
on it now while we give him 90 days, if the house doesn't come to
fruition, that's fine. We can discuss removing the fines later.
But, I mean, this man destroyed this entire piece of property and
didn't ask for help, so I think that there -- I agree with the 90 days, but I
think it should be --
MR. LEFEBVRE: I don't think we ever had a motion here
without a fine. So I would oppose this motion if it -- there's not a fine
attached to it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well, the fine would come after the
90 days, so there is no fine prior to the 90 days.
MR. LEFEBVRE: There's nothing compelling him to move
forward.
MR. LAVINSKI: Correct.
MR. LEFEBVRE: He'd be at the mercy to come back in front of
this board and say I don't have the money, so forth and so on. I think
we need to compel him with some kind of monetary incentive.
MR. LAVINSKI: I agree.
MS. CURLEY: Jeff?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So?
MR. LETOURNEAU: The county agrees with that, yeah.
MR. DOINO: A hundred days -- I mean, $100-a-day fine.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: After the 90 days?
MR. DOINO: After 90 days.
June 22, 2017
Page 54
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Any problem with that?
MR. LEFEBVRE: I think $100 is not --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It's $100 a day.
MR. LEFEBVRE: A day, right. I understand. For what has been
done to this property, I think 100 is a little bit on the light side, but
that's just myself.
MR. DOINO: We could see after it comes back then, you know.
MR. LEFEBVRE: We typically don't change a fine.
MR. LAVINSKI: We can't change that.
MR. LEFEBVRE: We typically don't change a fine after a
period, so...
MS. NICOLA: I don't think you can.
MS. CURLEY: Well, let's -- it's a fine.
MS. NICOLA: I mean, once the order is done, the order is done.
You know, the appeal process has ended. You don't come back and
redo it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I'm looking at some logical things.
The property is bought for 20,000, as you said. You can have fines
that will be more -- that cost you more than the property is worth, and
you're making the decision for him. So I don't think $100 is
outrageous. I think 90 days should give him the opportunity to see
where he sits and what he's going to do. We'll find that out in three
months.
MR. LEFEBVRE: I'm not looking at it as a basis of what the fine
is versus what the property costs. That's irrelevant.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I know.
MR. LEFEBVRE: The property could be worth a lot more than
that; don't know. But what I'm looking at is the significance of the
damage done to the property. That's --
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Mr. Chairman, we have a motion and a
second. I call the question.
June 22, 2017
Page 55
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. You had added 100 to it?
MR. DOINO: Yes, correct.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: The second agreed to that?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Could we get some clarification on what
the vote is at this point that you're voting on?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yeah. Saying that we grant the
respondent 90 days.
MS. CURLEY: So are we talking about Line Item No. 1?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I'm not looking at what they wrote at
all other than the 67.64 to be paid within 30 days. Okay? I'm -- if I'm
misspeaking, somebody correct me; that we grant the respondent 90
days or $100 a day after that if he does not come into compliance; that
he come back here -- we're going to say that -- to come back to let us
know exactly which avenue he wants to pursue.
MS. CURLEY: Excuse me.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Okay. So you're -- just -- it's broad.
You're relying on the county to make the determination he's come into
compliance in that 90 days at that point?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's correct.
MR. LETOURNEAU: And then if he doesn't, then, you know, if
he's halfway there, you can grant him more time or whatever at that
point?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's correct, at 90 days.
MS. NICOLA: But for purposes of preparing the order, it can't be
vague. I can't just say we need 90 days to come into compliance. How
do we define that? Because -- are you suggesting that we write this
order as written? Because I don't think that covers what we've been
talking about here.
So I think we have to modify the terms of this order to make
certain what it is that is expected of this man in 90 days. Are we going
to write it up that we expect that he will obtain building permits? Are
June 22, 2017
Page 56
we -- I mean, are we expecting that he obtains building permits and has
the DEP involved? I mean, I just think it has to be clear, particularly
with the language barrier.
MS. CURLEY: Can we modify the stipulation?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: There is no stipulation.
MR. LETOURNEAU: No. The recommendation you mean?
THE INTERPRETER: Is the problem -- is the problem that you
think that he's not going to do this, or he's not going to be able to do it?
MS. NICOLA: The problem is trying to figure out what exactly
we need to require him to do within 90 days so that he clearly
understands it, so that the county clearly understands it, and so that the
Board clearly understands it. That's what we all want here. And I'm
charged with drafting an order that tells him what he needs to do.
And so for my purposes, I need to have that very clear. And this
-- I'm a lawyer. This is very confusing to me. What we're -- I mean,
we're all over the place here, so we have to be clear.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Does "come into compliance" --
MS. NICOLA: Pardon me?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Does "come into compliance" -- is
that too broad a statement.
MS. NICOLA: You tell me. Absolutely that's too broad of a
statement, because he doesn't understand what it means. I know you
do, Bob, so tell me what it means.
MR. LAVINSKI: I don't.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That means that the description of
violation is resolved in that the site work that was done is now -- all
this is into compliance.
MS. CURLEY: Well, we have to give this gentleman some tools
to either succeed or not. And by saying "come into compliance" is not
giving him the tools that he needs.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. I'm all ears. Come on.
June 22, 2017
Page 57
MS. NICOLA: Well, we started with he has building plans that
are in the process of being obtained.
THE INTERPRETER: He will get them next week.
MS. NICOLA: He will get them next week. So Step No. 2
would be that he needs to go to the Building Department and -- no.
Okay. See?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You have to go to DEP.
MS. NICOLA: He has to go to the DEP first. So Step No. 1
would be how much time does he have to get those plans to the DEP?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I wrote --
MS. NICOLA: Is this the 90 days?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I wrote them down, and then I added
them up.
MS. NICOLA: So we'll just take that piece of paper that you've
handwritten, and we'll have you sign it --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. NICOLA: I can't see that.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I know this is a complicated case.
We're trying to be as fair as we can to the respondent, and we are
trying to be as fair to the taxpayers who have the right to keep the
property the way it should be out there. So you're doing a balancing
act.
He has the building -- he should have his building plans in a
week, and he should be able to get to DEP as part of resolving
Paragraph 2, those things. He should --
MR. ORTEGA: Not exactly.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Excuse me?
MR. ORTEGA: Not exactly. When you say "building plans," it's
not just the building footprint.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No, no, no. All the necessary -- all
the necessary plans that he intends to bring to the county to apply for a
June 22, 2017
Page 58
building permit. Okay?
I'd almost like to stop right there and, if he can do that, give him
time to do that, and then tackle the rest of this, because then it starts
getting complicated.
You have your building plans, you take them to DEP. DEP says,
thank you very much. Here's what your fine is, what your mitigation
cost is, if you will, and at that time we're going to know whether this is
going to go forward or not.
MS. NICOLA: So the question is, to the county, is 90 days
sufficient to do that, to know what the fine's going to be, to be able --
for this person, as an owner/builder, to know that he will be able to go
forward; is that enough time? And I don't know, so that's why I'm
asking the question.
MS. CROWLEY: I don't know either. The DEP's going to be
making the decision, and that's out of the county's hands as far as the
time frame.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's why I added extra time in
there -- whether it's 90 days. I had written down three months, so that's
close to 90 days.
At that point he has his plans, he takes them to DEP and has hired
somebody, I guess, to find out what it's going to cost to restore the
property or whatever has to be done.
DEP says, your mitigation costs are whatever they are, and before he
submits all that for his permit for the county, he should have an idea of
whether he's going to go forward with that or not.
MS. CROWLEY: Yes, by then he would know what the
mitigation amount is going to be.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: That's what we don't know now.
MS. CROWLEY: Correct. And he, presumably, by that time,
concurrently, will have consulted with his environmental consultant to
give him a ballpark figure as to what he'd be looking at to restore
June 22, 2017
Page 59
beyond the one acre and, presumably, his environmental consultant
will have access to those plans, ultimately, to know where the
driveway's going to be, where the drain field is, where his garage is
going to be; all those impervious things that could impact the wetlands
to know, are the calculations going to include any part of the wetlands
restoration or not.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Now, at that point, I'd almost
like to separate it, as you've done, Joe, into, one, 90 days for that.
Then we can require him to return here to let us know what he's going
to do and how much time he's going to require. But 90 days, I think,
should be sufficient time to do that. He's not going to be in compliance
in 90 days.
MS. NICOLA: Let me pose a question, because I think part of
the difficulty is No. 2 of the recommended order. Could we or, should
we, I guess is the question, draft it up as No. 1 with the 90 days,
because I think that makes sense but, perhaps, continue or withdraw
the issue of No. 2 for -- could we break it into two issues. Because it is
two issues.
The issue of the second part of the order, which is to come into
compliance with the vegetation, have that issue on another day,
because we don't know right now if he's going to build the house. If
it's too onerous for him to build this house, if he finds out he's got a
$30,000 fine from the DEP, my guess is that he's probably not going to
be able to pay that, and the idea of building your dream home is no
more.
So part No. 2 of the order, it doesn't really make sense today
because of the unknown. I almost think that what we should do is draft
up No. 1, give him the 90 days, then he'll be able to tell us when he
comes back here whether he's going to be able to come into
compliance with No. 2. I mean, I just think it's almost nonsensical to
put No. 2 in effect right now with an unknown.
June 22, 2017
Page 60
MS. CURLEY: I agree. In addition, we could be mindful of
sometimes when we keep a shorter time frame on this -- because then
we have the properties transferring, you know. Then we have these
things that linger on for years and years.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Can you put the -- your sheet up
there that has 67 --
MR. LETOURNEAU: I've got a question for Tamara. If we do
this and he comes back in 90 days and he's made some progress on 1,
can the Board add onto that order later on and compel him to mitigate
further after this? Because this is -- I mean, this is not even partial
mitigation at this point. I mean --
MS. NICOLA: Well, I think that what you can do is I think you
can grant the county's request for No. 1, and then you could abate the
county's request or you could continue the county's request, if you will,
for the second part of the violation. So maybe what we do is we say,
you know, we're going to go vote -- we're going to vote in part, and
we're going to defer in part.
So we're going to vote that there's a violation that exists for No. 1
which is, obviously, that he has improperly cleared his property and
that something needs to be done about it; that he needs to go to the
environmental resources -- the DEP and get the environmental
resources permit and that we are unable at this point to make a decision
on the second part, which is that he has to mitigate the vegetation. He
has to take some action to restore the property, because we don't know
at this point whether he's going to build a house or not.
I mean -- and I know that we don't want to look into the future,
but I think we kind of are because he's not going to be able to know
whether he can do what he wants to do until we know how much it's
going to cost him. I mean, that's very clear to me from --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So if we read this, the 67.64 is paid
within 30 days, must apply for an environmental permit from Florida
June 22, 2017
Page 61
Department of Environmental Protection for review of the proposed
site alteration for the exemption letter, et cetera, within 90 days, or a
fine of $100 each day, and the county defers any further action on this
violation until after the 90 days, or words to that effect.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Point of order. Are we still working on the
current vote that we have? We have a motion and a second. We never
voted on that. We never rescinded that.
MS. NICOLA: I think you would need to rescind --
MR. LEFEBVRE: So for point of order, we need to either
rescind that order and work on this.
MS. NICOLA: You would have to rescind the motion that the
violation exists, and then you would have to have someone else make a
motion --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: The motion that a violation exists,
that's done. It doesn't have to be rescinded.
MR. LEFEBVRE: The recommendation.
MS. NICOLA: The recommendation, yeah.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Mr. Doino, would you
rescind -- you want to rescind your --
MR. DOINO: With the 90 days?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You rescind your motion.
MR. LEFEBVRE: And the second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Do we have a second to rescind it
also?
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: All those in favor?
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
MR. DOINO: Aye.
MR. LAVINSKI: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
June 22, 2017
Page 62
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Aye.
MS. ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
I don't know if you need to vote on it or not.
MR. LEFEBVRE: It was never voted on.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well, we did it in case.
So, got that.
Now, if we go to Paragraph 1 that's in front of us and we put the
90 days in there or the fine of $100 each, we need a paragraph for No.
2 that says we want to defer any further action on this violation until
after the determination is made per Paragraph 1.
MS. NICOLA: I just think that maybe in No. 2 we could
probably write in there language -- we can include the language as part
of No. 2, but we say in the order that the issues concerning the
vegetation removal, clearing, et cetera, is deferred to another date.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. I have no problem --
MS. NICOLA: And it can just be brought back. I think it can be
brought back by the county, which is a simple open-ended deferral.
It's almost like reserving jurisdiction in a court order for a further
determination. That's what we're doing here, basically.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So we don't know the exact
language for Paragraph 2 unless you want to come up with it right
now.
MS. NICOLA: I'll come up with it later. How's that? It's
basically going to be a reservation of jurisdiction in Code Enforcement
language.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We're going to defer
Paragraph 2 and any other paragraphs after that at a later date.
Okay. So based on that -- is that your motion?
June 22, 2017
Page 63
MR. DOINO: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And is that your second?
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Any discussion on that?
MR. ORTEGA: One final comment.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
MR. ORTEGA: Sue brought up a -- and Tamara brought up a
point, an important point. It's important what we're saying here.
What's even more important is that he understands it --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I will explain to him.
(Simultaneous speakers.)
MR. ORTEGA: -- part of the steps.
Number 1, we're talking about an environmental consultant. He
doesn't know where to go. The county has environmental consultants.
They're not going to tell you who to use.
THE INTERPRETER: I can -- I'm --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Let's vote on this first, and then we'll
do the explanation portion next. Okay?
All those in favor?
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
MR. DOINO: Aye.
MR. LAVINSKI: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Aye.
MS. ELROD: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: We're not going to discuss it? Okay. Go
ahead.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You want to discuss before we go to
--
MR. LEFEBVRE: No.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: All those opposed?
June 22, 2017
Page 64
MR. LEFEBVRE: Opposed.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. So it passes.
Now, would you like to --
MR. LEFEBVRE: No.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. It's important, as you said, for
the respondent to know what he needs to do now. So he needs to --
THE INTERPRETER: I'm here to help him. We're friends.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. What we voted on in the
language you'll get says that he needs to do what Paragraph 1 here
says, which basically is --
THE INTERPRETER: He can't read it.
MS. NICOLA: You can.
THE INTERPRETER: I can't see it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Which basically says --
(The interpreter is reading to the petitioner.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. What the order says,
basically, is you pay the 67.64 within 30 days, and you're going to take
your building plans to DEP, you're going to speak to an environmental
consultant to find out just -- it's for your benefit -- what needs to be
done, and return here in 90 days, and then you'll know what you're
going to do, and you can let the Board know, and then the Board will
be able to grant additional time as required to do what you need to do.
Jeff, you're shaking your head.
MR. LETOURNEAU: It's just too ambiguous, but, you know -- I
think it would have been a little bit better just to maybe simplify what
Michaelle had and comply (sic) him to come into -- you know, there's
really no -- anything to get him into compliance at this time. I mean,
he --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well --
MS. CURLEY: Also, this -- this has been since December 15th.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I understand.
June 22, 2017
Page 65
THE INTERPRETER: The reason why it took -- I mean, this is
all like -- I mean, what happened happened. He was served papers.
He never showed them to us. He never said anything to us. He was
speaking to a gentleman that was speaking to him that came to -- that
gave him his fines or whatnot, the --
MR. LETOURNEAU: Investigator Serna?
THE INTERPRETER: Yes. And then that's what the problem
was. He never said anything to us. We didn't know. I found out last
night when he brought me the paperwork. Because if I would have
known -- you know, we built a house by owner. It took us a year. We
had to go through all of this, you know, but we were unaware.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: He did remove a lot of the stuff that
was dumped there, so it's not like nothing was done.
THE INTERPRETER: No, he's -- and he wants to do good by --
you know, he wants to build his house. He just -- he's only been here
from Spain only two years, a little over two years, and he was
unaware.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So we're trying our best to be as
helpful as we can to the respondent. It's -- this is not a health -- safety
and health. It's a piece of property that a year from now will still be a
piece of property. I don't think it will harm anything. If it does, it will
be -- the EPA will tell him what needs to do -- what he needs to do to
restore it so no harm comes to the property.
Yes, Jeff.
MR. LETOURNEAU: One question. When we do come back in
three months, would you recommend that the county have some kind
of simplified recommendation --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
MR. LETOURNEAU: -- to move on from that point?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Okay. I've got something in mind right now,
June 22, 2017
Page 66
so...
MR. LAVINSKI: Don't let Joe write it.
MS. NICOLA: I think, too, that we probably have to --
MR. MUCHA: I didn't.
MR. LETOURNEAU: Joe was dreading having to read that
thing, to be honest with you.
MS. NICOLA: I think that the last part of the sentence, too, has
to be removed, which says, "and must mitigate with the DEP as
necessary to offset impacts," because we've already discussed that
that's not going to be possible within 90 days.
So I would just suggest that we leave it as "within the wetlands"
period, and strike the rest of that sentence, because that's really going
to be part of the Part 2 issue, for, you know, future determination.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. NICOLA: Okay.
MR. LAVINSKI: Well, will that ensure us that he's got DEP
approval and he's paid the fine, whatever it is?
MS. NICOLA: I have no idea. That would be up to DEP, right?
I mean --
MR. LAVINSKI: The mitigation cost.
MS. NICOLA: -- I don't know how long they give him to pay a
fine.
MR. LAVINSKI: Whatever you want to call it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes.
THE INTERPRETER: I have a question -- he has a question. Is
he going to be able to -- when they give him this fine, does it have to
be all paid up upfront; do you know?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I don't know what their process is.
MS. NICOLA: No clue.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: In order for them to give you the
paperwork --
June 22, 2017
Page 67
MR. LEFEBVRE: The approval, yeah.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It could be, as you said, a bigger
number. It also could be a smaller number.
MS. CROWLEY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We don't know.
MR. LAVINSKI: But it could be a show stopper.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes, it can; no question about it.
MR. LAVINSKI: So let's not get beyond that.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. That's what we tried to do
with this.
Okay. Any other comments, questions?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We will see you after the summer.
Okay. Thank you.
THE INTERPRETER: Thank you so much.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We're going to take 10
minutes.
(A brief recess was had.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I'd like to call the Code Enforcement
Board back to order. Our next case is?
MS. ADAMS: Okay. The next two cases are together, so they'll
be combined. It's Tab 6 and Tab 7. Case CEVR20170001173, KGB
Properties, LLC, and Case CEVR20170004251, KGB Properties,
LLC.
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Could you state your name on the
microphone, please.
MR. BONITO: Kevin Bonito.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Are you the K in KGB?
MR. BONITO: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Did you see how I figured
June 22, 2017
Page 68
that out?
Okay. Jonathan? Do you want to hear both cases together?
We'll vote on them separately. One's for 5327 and the other one is
5325, I believe, the address.
MR. MUSSE: Correct.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. MUSSE: Okay. Good morning. For the record,
Investigator Jonathan Musse, Collier County Code Enforcement.
This is in reference to Case No. CEVR20170001173 and Case
No. CEVR20170004251 in dealing with the violations of Collier
County Land Development Code 04-41, as amended, Section
3.05.08(C), 1.04.01(A), 2.02.03, and Collier County Code of Laws and
Ordinances Chapter 54, Article VI, Section 54.185(D) and 54.179,
presence of prohibited exotic vegetation including, but not limited to,
Brazilian pepper, java plum, air potato, carrot wood, earleaf acacia,
Australian pine on this unimproved property not zoned estates or
agricultural, and located within a 200-foot radius of an abutting
improved property. Also observed the illegal outside storage located at
5327 Georgia Avenue, Naples, Florida, 34113, Folio No.
62093440000, and 5325 Georgia Avenue, Naples, Florida, 34113,
Folio No. 62093400008.
Service was given on March 14th, 2017.
I would like to present the case evidence in the following
exhibits: For case number ending in 1173, five photos taken on March
9, 2017, and six photos taken on May 10, 2017.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Has the respondent seen the photos?
MR. MUSSE: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Can I get a motion to accept the
photos.
MR. LAVINSKI: Motion to accept.
MR. DOINO: Second.
June 22, 2017
Page 69
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And second. All those in favor?
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
MR. DOINO: Aye.
MR. LAVINSKI: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Aye.
MS. ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
MR. MUSSE: And for case number ending in 4251, 13 photos,
taken on March 9th, 2017. All photos were taken by me.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Same question. Has the respondent
seen the photos?
MR. MUSSE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No problem with the photos?
MR. BONITO: No.
MR. LAVINSKI: Motion to accept.
MR. DOINO: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Motion and a second. All those in
favor?
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
MR. DOINO: Aye.
MR. LAVINSKI: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Aye.
MS. ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
June 22, 2017
Page 70
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
MR. MUSSE: I conducted a site inspection on January 23rd and
observed some possible exotic vegetation on those two unimproved
lots. I forwarded the photos to Environmental Specialist Michaelle
Crowley, where she later identified Brazilian peppers and air potato.
She also informed me that this was exotic vegetation within a 200-foot
radius from an improved property ordinance.
I was able to get in contact with the business owner of KGB
Property, LLC, Mr. Kevin Bonito. He requested a meeting on site with
Ms. Crowley so that he can get a better understanding of the violation
and find out exactly what needed to be done to come into compliance.
After speaking with Ms. Crowley, finding out her availability, I
tried making -- made attempts to contact Mr. Bonito, but we could not
get -- I didn't get a response back.
Myself and Crowley conducted a site inspection on the property
on March 9th where she was able to identify six exotic vegetations,
including Brazilian pepper, java plum, air potato, carrot wood, earleaf
acacia, and Australian pine.
I also observed the illegal outside storage consisting of, but not
limited to, manmade vegetative debris, TVs, cardboard boxes, chairs,
jet ski, tires, bottles, et cetera.
I reissued the notice of violation to add the additional exotics and
outside storage.
I made several reinspections; didn't see much of an improvement.
The outside storage was still there.
A site inspection was conducted yesterday. Violation remains.
I was able to get in contact with Mr. Bonito. He informed me that
he plans on building a home on these two lots within the next year. As
of right now, there is no exotic vegetation removal permits, no permits
for the home at this time.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Do you have any pictures of
June 22, 2017
Page 71
the debris?
MR. MUSSE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Oh.
MR. MUSSE: It's not much outside storage. I mean, I've been to
worse properties, but there is -- nonetheless, when I saw the jet ski, that
definitely had to get removed.
MR. LEFEBVRE: The jet ski has been removed, you said?
MR. MUSSE: It needs to be removed, I would imagine.
MS. CURLEY: It doesn't -- there wasn't, like, a homeless camp
or something there before?
MR. MUSSE: Probably at one time it was. But when we walked
through, we didn't see any homeless people there.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Is that all the photos? Okay.
Sir? Your turn.
MR. BONITO: I spoke with Jonathan about, you know, all the
violations. So I understand what needs to be done to correct it; just
remove all the exotic vegetation and, you know, all the debris,
everything like that that's just been dumped there.
I had a plan to build a home shortly. I had a financial situation
with family, so the funds have gone somewhere else. I have received
quotes to clear the property and have made several attempts but one --
the only quote that I have right now in writing is 32,000 just to clear all
-- the two -- of all the exotic vegetation. So it's kind of pricey.
What I wanted to ask for is something kind of simple, about a
year, to have all the exotic vegetation removed and all the debris that
are there in order for me to build a home. I have planned to have the
building process started within the next year. And whether I build or
not, I'd still have everything cleared within one year.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Before we discuss those
items, we have to find out whether a violation exists.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Make a motion a violation exists.
June 22, 2017
Page 72
MR. DOINO: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second that
a violation exists. Any discussion on the motion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hearing -- yes?
MS. CURLEY: Is this for both -- are we hearing both cases?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We're going to vote on each one
individually. Okay. This one is --
MR. LAVINSKI: 1173.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yeah. There are two lots; 5325 and
5327. So let's vote on 5327 first.
All those that agree that a violation exists, say aye.
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
MR. DOINO: Aye.
MR. LAVINSKI: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Aye.
MS. ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
And for the other lot, 5325, same motion. All those in favor?
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
MR. DOINO: Aye.
MR. LAVINSKI: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Aye.
MS. ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
June 22, 2017
Page 73
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Okay. Here we are. One item I wanted to mention; I don't know
if you gathered it from the previous cases. In order to clear the
vegetation -- I don't know what size lots these are or how much you're
going to clear. If you intend to build on there, it makes sense to get
your building permit and do that. You just can't go in there, unless you
get just a clearing permit, to do it. So I just wanted to mention that
upfront. You might want to get more information on that from either
Michaelle or from Jonathan.
So, with that, questions, comments from the Board? You have a
suggestion for us?
MR. MUSSE: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. It will be a suggestion for
both lots. And, again, whatever it is, we'll vote on them separately.
MR. MUSSE: Okay. The county recommends that the Code
Enforcement Board order the respondent to pay all operational costs in
the amount of $65.36 incurred in the prosecution of this case within 30
days and abate all violations by removing all Collier County prohibited
exotic vegetation that exists within a 200-foot radius from any abutting
improved property.
The use of heavy machinery to do mechanical clearing of exotic
vegetation requires a vegetative removal permit to be obtained in
advance. When prohibited exotic vegetation foliage is removed but the
base of the vegetation remains, the base in every cut stem or stump
must be immediately treated with a U.S. Environmental Protection
Agency approved herbicide containing a visible tracer dye within X
amount of days of this hearing, or a fine of X amount of dollars per
day will be imposed until the violation's abated;
Two, removing all unauthorized accumulation of litter from the
property to a site intended for final disposal within X amount of days
June 22, 2017
Page 74
of this hearing, or a fine of X amount of dollars per day will be
imposed until the violation's abated.
The respondent must notify the code enforcement investigator
when the violation has been abated in order to conduct the final
inspection to confirm abatement.
If the respondent fails to abate the violation, the county may abate
the violation using any method to bring the violation into compliance
and may use the assistance of the Collier County Sheriff's Office to
enforce the provisions of this order, and all costs of abatement shall be
assessed to the property owner.
MS. CURLEY: I have a question.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Shoot.
MS. CURLEY: So just -- because I'm not familiar with this. If
you were to get a building permit -- and that would include clearing the
lot for --
MR. MUSSE: They do actually -- part of the building permit, if
you get a home, one of the inspections is exotic vegetation removal.
MS. CURLEY: So it would need to be done the same way, but --
MR. MUSSE: It's just part of building process for a home.
MS. CURLEY: So if you get a permit -- I'm just -- if you get a
permit, like, how long -- once he clears that, how long does he have to
start building?
MR. MUSSE: That's a good question for the Permitting
Department. They have six months. Once the permit's active for six
months, each passing inspection extends that six-month period. So as
long as they keep that permit active, they're okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: From an economy of scale, if you're
going to clear the lot anyhow, you might as well do it, and with a
building permit --
MR. MUSSE: Correct.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- otherwise, you're going to spend
June 22, 2017
Page 75
money for a vegetation removal permit -- and I don't know if it would
be one or two permits since it's two lots -- and then when you get your
building permit, you're going to wind up clearing the site for your
home, so...
MR. MUSSE: Yep.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: But that's up to the respondent to
decide.
MS. CURLEY: Can we ask you, are you building the home on --
combining the lots for your home, or are you --
MR. BONITO: No. It would be two separate homes.
MS. CURLEY: Two separate homes, okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: What's the size of these lots?
They're 660 by -- no.
MR. BONITO: No, they're small residential lots.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Oh, 80 by 100. Okay.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Eighty by 125, probably.
MR. BONITO: I think that's right.
MS. CURLEY: Well, I think that a year is a little long to pick up
some debris. So I could try to take a swat at this, the blanks here, if
you don't mind.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. CURLEY: I think I'll start with No. 2 first, removing all
unauthorized accumulation of litter from the property to a site intended
for final disposal within 60 days of this hearing, or a fine of $100 per
day will be imposed until the violation is abated.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Is that the same thing that you want
-- we'll vote separately.
MS. CURLEY: No, that's for No. 1. I think that's not a hard
exercise.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No, no, no. I meant for --
MS. CURLEY: I mean, excuse me, No. 2. Now, No. 1, I would
June 22, 2017
Page 76
like some assistance with that.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: No, no, no, no, no. That's not what
my question is. My question is we have two --
MS. CURLEY: Oh, I beg your pardon. Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: 5325 and 5327, so it would be the
same --
MS. CURLEY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- suggestion for both of those
properties?
MS. CURLEY: Yes, sir. Number 2 for both properties would be
60 days to pick up the trash, or a $100-a-day fine posts the 60th day.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. CURLEY: And No. 1, does anybody want to lend a hand
here?
MR. LAVINSKI: Yeah. I think -- with regard to No. 1, I think
we ought to take a hard look at this, because if you ride down
Livingston Road, County Barn Road, Santa Barbara Road -- Boulevard
and look east, you see forests of exotic vegetation. So I can't really get
excited about this gentleman having to remove that stuff in the next
two-and-a-half months or whatever.
MS. CURLEY: I agree. I was --
MR. LAVINSKI: So I think -- if you want to go along with it,
something like a year, or a fine of maybe $50 a day. To be realistic, I
mean, if this were the last two lots in Collier County with exotics, I
could get excited, but I can't get excited when I ride up those three
roads I mentioned and see the exotics.
MS. CURLEY: Okay. So then we'll fill in No. 2, without
reading -- or No. 1, without reading everything; we'll give him -- so do
we do days or a --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: 365 days.
MS. CURLEY: 365 days, or a fine of, let's just say -- let's just
June 22, 2017
Page 77
stick to the $100.
MR. LAVINSKI: I would think 100 would be too high.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You have two of them, so whatever
it is times two.
MS. CURLEY: Okay, $50. So Item No. 1 is 365 days, or a fine
of $50 per day will be imposed until the violation is abated, and that's
for both properties.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And the $65.36 will be paid
within 30 days?
MS. CURLEY: Times two.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. LAVINSKI: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second.
Any discussion on the motion?
MR. LEFEBVRE: Just keep in mind, he said he's going to build
two houses. Obviously, he's not going to live in both. So one he's
going to sell. So this is more -- or potentially sell both of them. So this
is more of an investment-type for him.
MS. CURLEY: Congratulations.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Just -- I think to give him a year might be --
and $50 is a little bit low. A little bit long for 365 -- 365 days and a
little bit low at $50.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Call the question, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We have a motion. I'll just
review it real quickly. And I'm going to -- this will be on -- the
number of the property is 5325 for the first one. It's 65.36 to be paid
within 30 days, 365 days to remove the items in Paragraph 1, or $50
thereafter, and for No. 2, 60 days or a fine of -- is that -- $100, excuse
me -- $100 per day for Item No. 2. This, again, is for Property 5325.
All those in favor?
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
June 22, 2017
Page 78
MR. DOINO: Aye.
MR. LAVINSKI: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Aye.
MS. ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Same motion for Property 5327. All those in favor?
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
MR. DOINO: Aye.
MR. LAVINSKI: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Aye.
MS. ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Okay. You understand where we're at?
MR. BONITO: Yeah. I mean, basically clear the vegetation in
one year, clear all the litter/junk within 60 days.
MS. CURLEY: Yes.
MR. BONITO: And I have to pay the $65.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: For each case.
MS. CURLEY: Each case you have the administrative fee.
MR. BONITO: Once I clear the, whatever, litter and junk, how
do I --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You'll contact -- Jonathan will let
you know who to call. He'll give you his card.
June 22, 2017
Page 79
MR. BONITO: All right. All right. Thank you.
MS. CURLEY: Hopefully we won't see you again. Good luck.
MR. BONITO: Thank you.
MS. ADAMS: The next case is from No. 6, old business, Letter
A, motion for imposition of fines/liens No. 2, Tab 10, Case
CEVR20160020159, Marcia Noel, Incorporated.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And just on this case that --
we have a revised Tab 10 that the operational costs have been paid.
Okay.
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Sir, could you state your
name on the microphone for us.
MR. NOEL: CJ Noel, president of the company.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And you're here to request
something?
MR. NOEL: Yes. I've cut the trees, get the place cleared off, and
I'm asking to have all the fees waived.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. You are now in compliance?
MR. NOEL: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And all the fees have been paid?
MR. NOEL: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Any discussion from the Board?
MS. CURLEY: Just a day of trees.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Anybody like to make a motion?
MR. LAVINSKI: So, Joe, does this mean that he has an ongoing
maintenance program included?
MR. MUCHA: I'm sorry?
MR. LAVINSKI: Is there an ongoing maintenance program
regarding the exotics that they have to comply with?
MR. MUCHA: I think -- I mean, there was pepper hedges there,
is that correct, Mr. Noel?
June 22, 2017
Page 80
MR. NOEL: Yes.
MR. MUCHA: And it was removed.
MR. NOEL: Completely removed.
MR. MUCHA: As far as I know, we're good for now.
MR. LAVINSKI: Okay.
MR. MUCHA: I mean, yeah, we're -- the case is closed on our
end.
MR. LAVINSKI: All right. I'll make a motion to abate the --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Reword that; to deny the county's
motion. That's what they like to hear.
MR. LAVINSKI: Yeah. Whatever he said.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Go ahead.
MR. LAVINSKI: I make a motion to deny the county's request to
implement a fine of 5,813.09 and abate that to an amount of zero.
MR. DOINO: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. We have a motion and a
second. Any discussion on the motion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hearing none, all those in favor?
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
MR. DOINO: Aye.
MR. LAVINSKI: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Aye.
MS. ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
For the Board's edification, for whoever wasn't here, this is the
way the magistrate does it and what they've requested of us to do as
June 22, 2017
Page 81
well. Does the same thing.
MS. CURLEY: Thank you.
MR. NOEL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Thank you.
MR. NOEL: Do I get a copy of that somewhere?
MS. NICOLA: You will. I'll draft the order, and I'll send you a
copy.
MR. NOEL: Okay. Thank you.
MS. ADAMS: The next case is No. 4, Tab 12, Case
CESD20160008108, 212 New Market Road, LLC.
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
MR. HOWELL: So help me God, I do.
MR. MUCHA: I do.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And you are here to -- state
your name on the mic.
MR. HOWELL: I'm Cecil Howell.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. And you're here to?
MR. HOWELL: If I can get my fines waivered on this case.
MS. CURLEY: Did everybody see the revised tab?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Yes. The operational costs for today
have been paid.
Any discussion or motion from the Board?
MR. LAVINSKI: I'm just surprised he's still here after our
previous case.
MR. HOWELL: I tell you what, I have a new appreciation for
y'all watching this for what, two hours and -- almost two-and-a-half
hours for all that y'all go through. I didn't realize y'all went through
this every day or whatever. But God help you is all I've got to say.
MR. LEFEBVRE: It's only once a month.
MS. CURLEY: All right. It's a lot better live than on TV,
though.
June 22, 2017
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MS. NICOLA: By the way, you are on TV.
MR. HOWELL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Do you sing or dance or anything?
MR. HOWELL: No, sir.
MS. CURLEY: I just have one comment, and then I'll make a
motion. I'm a little disappointed that we're not talking about
agriculture or trees today. But since we're talking about a walk-in
cooler, I make a motion to deny the county's fines of $22,563.09.
MR. DOINO: Second that.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And we have a second. Any
discussion on that?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hearing none, all those in favor?
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
MR. DOINO: Aye.
MR. LAVINSKI: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Aye.
MS. ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
MR. HOWELL: Thank you, guys. Appreciate it -- and ladies.
MS. ADAMS: And the last case is from Letter C, hearings, No.
3, Tab 3, Case CESD20160016422, Najeeb Ullah.
(The speaker was duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
MR. DOINO: What tab is this?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Three.
MS. CURLEY: Three.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: The respondent isn't present.
June 22, 2017
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MR. MUSSE: Good morning.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Good morning.
MR. MUSSE: For the record, Investigator Jonathan Musse,
Collier County Code Enforcement.
This is in reference to Case No. CESD20160016422 dealing with
the violations of Collier County Land Development Code 04-41, as
amended, Section 10.02.06(B)(1)(a), 10.02.06(B)(1)(e)(i); interior
remodeling consisting of, but not limited to, removing of drywall and
insulation with plans to replace them with new drywall without first
obtaining a valid Collier County permit.
Located at 5349 Holland Street, Naples, Florida, 34113; Folio No.
62205720000.
Service was given on October 7th, 2016.
I would now like to present the case evidence in the following
exhibits: Five photos taken on October 6th, 2016, and two photos
taken on June 6th, 2017. All photos were taken by me.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Could we get a motion to
accept the photos.
MR. DOINO: Motion to accept.
MR. LAVINSKI: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second. All
those in favor?
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
MR. DOINO: Aye.
MR. LAVINSKI: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Aye.
MS. ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
June 22, 2017
Page 84
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
MR. MUSSE: I conducted a site inspection on October 6th,
2016, where I observed the dumpster in the front yard. The front door
was wide open, and I was able to observe the interior of the property
and observed that it was completely gutted. I checked our data base
and did not find an active permit for the work being done.
On October 7th, 2016, the Building Official reviewed the case
and confirmed that a permit would be required for the work being done
on the property.
I was able to get in contact with the property owner, Mr. Ullah,
where I informed him of the Building Official's determination and
what he would need to do to obtain a permit.
Mr. Ullah, with the assistance of the permitting consultant,
Octavio Sarmiento, Jr., obtained Permit No. PRBD20161039192 for
demo of all interior Sheetrock, wall and ceiling, also demo back wood
deck.
On March 23rd, 2017, I noticed the permit was about on expire in
a month. I sent Mr. Sarmiento an email informing him of the permit's
expiration date and if he could give me an update.
A week before the expiration date, I again sent Mr. Sarmiento an
email requesting an update and also reminding him about -- the permit
is about to expire.
On the 23rd of April 2017 the permit expired. A couple days later
I received an email from Mr. Sarmiento stating that he spoke with the
contractors and advised them to call in for the final inspection.
As of right now the permit has not been reactivated. Violation
remains.
A site inspection was made yesterday where I observed that the
remodeling was complete and the property is currently -- currently has
a tenant.
I spoke to the tenant and was able to observe from the inside of
June 22, 2017
Page 85
the house that everything was remodeled and done.
I spoke to Mr. Ullah, stating that he didn't believe a permit was
required for the work that was done. He kind of got the demolition
permit as a courtesy and did not obtain a permit for rebuilding --
remodeling the dwelling.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So he got a permit to do the demo --
MR. MUSSE: Just the demo.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- but not a permit to redo
everything.
MR. MUSSE: Correct.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hanging the drywall. Was there
plumbing and electrical involved?
MR. MUSSE: Fully. Yeah everything; yeah.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Everything. Okay.
Okay. So does a violation exist?
MR. LAVINSKI: Make a motion that a violation does exist.
MR. DOINO: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We have a motion and a second. All
those in favor?
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
MR. DOINO: Aye.
MR. LAVINSKI: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Aye.
MS. ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
Jonathan, you have a suggestion for us that's shorter than the last
suggestion we had?
June 22, 2017
Page 86
MR. MUSSE: The county recommends the Code Enforcement
Board to order the respondent to pay all operational costs in the
amount of $65.36 incurred in the prosecution of this case within 30
days and abate all violations by: Obtaining all required Collier County
building permits or demolition permit, inspections, and certificate of
completion/occupancy within X amount of days of this hearing, or a
fine of X amount of dollars will be imposed until the violation's abated.
The respondent must notify the code enforcement investigator
when the violation has been abated in order to conduct a final
inspection to confirm abatement. If the respondent fails to abate the
violation, the county may abate the violation using any method to
bring the violation into compliance and may use the assistance of the
Collier County Sheriff's Office to enforce the provisions of this order,
and all costs of abatement shall be assessed to the property owner.
MS. CURLEY: I have a question. Shouldn't No. 1 just say
building permits since now we know he's built it?
MR. MUSSE: Unless he wants to tear down his entire house; but
you're right.
MS. CURLEY: It may be a little misleading because he thinks he
has that already as a courtesy to you.
MR. MUSSE: He has not got the CO for the -- he hasn't cleared
that permit, finalized that demo permit yet. So if he -- unless the
Permitting Department will void that out in place of the building
permit, he would have to close out that original demolition permit.
MS. CURLEY: So we should say "and;" the building permit and
demo permit, not and -- not "or."
MR. MUSSE: Correct.
MS. CURLEY: Okay. So can we change that?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You can.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Question. Since you had knowledge that the
property has been rebuilt, the description of violation doesn't really
June 22, 2017
Page 87
state that. Should the description of violation also state that the
property has been rebuilt without permits or inspections?
MR. MUSSE: When I issued the notice, it was just when I caught
him -- when the violation (sic) was just gutted. So as -- and I was
following the demolition permit. Once I saw that it expired through
the reinspection, I'm like, he's done.
MS. CURLEY: So we have -- you have a whole new case?
MR. MUSSE: It's -- technically we'd be using the same
ordinance but a different type of violation.
MR. LEFEBVRE: But then you go to your recommendation
saying that he should get a certificate of occupancy, but in the
description of violation you're not asking -- you're not stating that it has
been redone, so it doesn't really --
MR. MUSSE: Yeah. That's why we put any required Collier
County -- we kept it general, if any kind of permit -- sometimes a lot of
cases they don't even need a permit for different -- case by case. We
just add it in there in case the building official says that they required a
permit or, no, they don't need a permit. That's just -- we just put the
language there.
MR. ORTEGA: I'm sorry. Could you repeat that one more time
where you don't need a permit.
MR. MUSSE: In some cases -- like, you want a scenario why
you wouldn't need a permit?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: If someone put down carpet.
MR. MUSSE: Carpet, tile, you don't need a permit to --
MR. ORTEGA: Well, there are exemptions to permits.
MR. MUSSE: Yeah.
MR. ORTEGA: But not in this case.
MR. MUSSE: No, no, not in this case, no.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I have a quickie. They stripped a
house, they had a permit, but they never got the final on it; is that
June 22, 2017
Page 88
correct?
MR. MUSSE: They only got a demo permit.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. They got a demo permit.
MR. MUSSE: Correct.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Then -- and it expired without the
final inspection?
MR. MUSSE: Uh-huh.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And then they redid the house.
MS. CURLEY: Fast.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well, unusual -- yeah, fast. Was this
done by contractors?
MR. MUSSE: Yeah. He hired a permitting consultant, Octavio
Sarmiento, and then Octavio contracted it out to a contractor.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And did they pull --
MR. MUSSE: No.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: -- permits?
MR. MUSSE: No.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I'm curious as to what Contractor’s
Licensing would say about this.
MS. CURLEY: They probably weren't licensed.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well, they – Contractor’s Licensing
would certainly want to know that.
MS. CURLEY: Well, that's why you don't get a permit.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: But I know there were referrals from
Contractors Licensing to Code Enforcement. Do they also go in
the oppose direction?
MR. MUSSE: Yes, yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. I just thought I'd mentioned
that in passing.
Ian may not be busy enough over there.
Yes, Jeff?
June 22, 2017
Page 89
MR. LETOURNEAU: Ian's no longer with us.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Oh, he's not?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Well, he's still with us on Earth, but he's
no longer with the county. Yeah, he took a job with the city.
We'll make sure -- I think what happened was they were demoing
the structure, somebody made a complaint, Jonathan caught them.
They got the permit to demo, they never followed through with the
inspections or certificate of completion, and in the meantime, on top of
everything else, they went and rebuilt it.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Was there ever a stop order done on this?
MR. MUSSE: Yes.
MR. LETOURNEAU: So we'll make sure that they come into
compliance on both issues, the demo and the rebuilding.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: I assume that what they're going to
have to do now is get a permit by affidavit, you know.
MR. LETOURNEAU: I think they could probably combine the
demo and the rebuilding together.
MR. ORTEGA: It will be a separate permit. The county will not
issue a CO on the demo until they apply for the alteration permit.
But there is one thing that they may not be aware of, and that is
that under a permit by affidavit, FEMA is exempt, which means that if
that structure's below the current base flood elevation everything below
that point has to be FEMA-approved material. Not like the past code,
which they will allow it under the 50 percent rule. Not anymore. So it
may be -- if they're in the flood zone, they may be in for a surprise,
unfortunately.
MS. CURLEY: Is it -- Naples Manor.
MR. ORTEGA: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Well, that's --
MS. CURLEY: Okay, then.
June 22, 2017
Page 90
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Let's go through the
recommendation and see --
MS. CURLEY: Just one other thing. I know we didn't address it,
but is there a safety factor since we do have all this unknown
construction inside with people living in there?
MR. MUSSE: It doesn't appear to be unsafe, although I haven't
been inside the dwelling itself. But there is a gentleman living in there
who looks like he works for the construction company. That's one of
the --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It's always been our opinion on the
Board that if you have electrical and plumbing done without a permit,
there's a safety consideration; so to echo what you just said. Okay.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Make a motion that the 65.36 be paid within
30 days; violation in No. 1, 60 days, or a fine of $300 per day would be
imposed.
MR. LAVINSKI: What was that amount?
MR. LEFEBVRE: $300 per day after 60 days.
MR. LAVINSKI: Second.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Any discussion on the motion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Hearing none, all those in favor?
MS. CURLEY: Aye.
MR. DOINO: Aye.
MR. LAVINSKI: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. L'ESPERANCE: Aye.
MS. ELROD: Aye.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: It carries unanimously.
June 22, 2017
Page 91
MR. MUSSE: Thank you.
MS. ADAMS: The last item we have under reports, Marlene
Serrano would like to give a report to the Board.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay.
MS. NICOLA: Is it possible that I could be excused for this? It's
my daughter's birthday. I don't need to be here for this? Do you guys
mind? Please?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Not at all.
MS. NICOLA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: But we'd like some birthday cake.
MS. NICOLA: Okay. I'll bring it next month.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We'll hold you to it.
MS. SERRANO: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Board
Members.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Good morning.
MS. SERRANO: For the record, Marlene Serrano, Manager of
Operations, Code Enforcement.
And I'm here to inform you of a change that would impact the
way the Board is conducted in the future. We are -- we're going to be
utilizing software that is currently used by the Board of County
Commissioners for their agenda items. And this software is
cloud-based, which means you can access on your personal computers.
We're going to be loading all the items to this software. We're
going to create an agenda, and then the moment the agenda created,
you will receive an email notifying you that the agenda and the
attachments are ready for your viewing.
The day of the meeting, you will bring either -- we're looking to
see purchase iPads for you to view the agenda items here, or you can
bring -- if you're more comfortable with your laptops, you can bring
that also.
So I just printed a couple of, like, you know, screen shots of what
June 22, 2017
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the program looks like so you know what it looks like. It's very easy to
use. We're going to offer you training. So it's not something that we're
going to throw at you.
And then we're working on probably implementing this in the
August/September meeting. So the first meeting we're going to handle
the meeting parallel. So you're going to have your regular packets, and
then we're also going to have this way of handling the meeting. So
you will have the software in front of you, and also you will have the
packets on the first one.
The good thing about this -- this is how the agenda will look,
which is exactly like it looks like now. No changes to the format.
You're going to be viewing the same documentation that you normally
view. So, you know, the notice of hearing, everything that you
normally get in your packets would be loaded in there. The software
will give you the capability of you entering notes to yourself. So once
you view the item, if you want to have a note to yourself of something
that you want to ask during the meeting, you can put that in there --
and that will be told to you in the training. But you could be able to
put that in there, and then when you're here, the only person that will
view those notes are yourself. It's only one person. So not the rest of
the Board. Okay.
So if you want to pass to the next one.
So once you bring up -- this is kind of small. I don't know if you
can put it bigger. This is what it looks like. And then you can do --
when you press "agenda," you will get an agenda. When you press
"agenda packet," you will see the attachments to the agenda item, and
then the next one will show -- you can do what is called a split view,
and then you can have it on one side of the same screen, you can have
it one side, the items, and on the right side you're going to have what
you're looking at.
So once you click on that, you will see -- like in this case, if you
June 22, 2017
Page 93
click something on the left -- if you go to the next one -- you will see
what it is. So once you attach -- on the bottom. Okay. So the second
part, if you click on one item that says the notice of hearing on one
case in particular, you can see the actual notice of hearing. You can
scroll down and see all the attachments to the packet, which is the
same that you receive.
So I just want to let you know that this is coming, so just --
training, like I said, will be provided. It's not -- it's something that you
would -- this is where we're going with all the meetings in the county
right now.
So the Board of County Commissioners is handling their
meetings like this. We also have the MPO; the metropolitan planning
also is handling the meetings like this, and then we're next. So I just
want to --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: You're going to have to --
MR. LEFEBVRE: Jim, are you okay with this?
MR. LAVINSKI: Yeah. I have a question. In case you have a
board member over 80 years who still uses a flip phone, are you going
to have tutors?
MS. SERRANO: Definitely. We are here to help you. So
whatever -- however, you know, long it takes, we will be here to assist
you.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: And you want to ask them how you
see the agenda on your flip phone?
MS. SERRANO: Oh, no. You're not going to be able to.
MR. LAVINSKI: Yeah. I may need a bigger screen.
MS. SERRANO: Able to.
MS. CURLEY: So it wouldn't be on this screen ever?
MS. SERRANO: We can do it so you can log in from here or we
can -- you can bring your laptop. I have -- we have to still work with
IT in different things when it comes to access or something like that, so
June 22, 2017
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-- but it would be -- I mean, the way the Board does it right now, they
look at the screen in front of them. They log in, and they can -- it's on
the Internet. So all you've got to do is log in, and then you will see it,
so...
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: There's going to be a requirement
that we change our rules.
MR. LEFEBVRE: We probably can't meet anywhere else but
here then.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Well, I don't know about where we
could meet or where we can't meet, but our rules don't call for what's
being implemented, so at some point in times the rules would have to
be modified to meet what the county wants to do.
MR. LEFEBVRE: And the other thing is, if we're not in this
room and people use these computers here, we won't have -- like,
upstairs on the fifth floor in August, correct? No, next month.
MS. SERRANO: That's why we're exploring the iPad situation.
So that way whenever we do the meeting, if we have the meeting here
or we have it in the fifth floor, you will have a way of looking at it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Maybe we can borrow the iPads
from the commissioners. We can all share the iPads with all the
committees. I'm only joking.
MS. CURLEY: Let's just -- who here does have an iPad on this
board? Three of us.
MS. SERRANO: Our plan is to purchase iPads for all of you, so
you will have an iPad.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Oh.
MS. SERRANO: It's just if you're not comfortable. Some people
are not comfortable with Apple products. So, you know, that will be
the only --
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: We'll need the markers to write on
the pads, you know, your notes.
June 22, 2017
Page 95
MS. SERRANO: You can --
MS. CURLEY: It's so easy.
MS. SERRANO: It's very easy to use. I currently use it for the
board meetings, and I'm telling you it's very easy to use.
MS. CURLEY: And for the over-80 people, they do make bigger
ones.
MR. LAVINSKI: Do we have an opt-out provision?
MS. CURLEY: I'll print it for you. If you need me to, I'll print
one for you.
MS. SERRANO: Any other questions?
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: So the training dates and all the rest
of that schedule, you'll notify us down the road?
MS. SERRANO: Yes. We have -- in the county there is a group
that is handling this implementation, two different areas. So they are
the ones that are training us on how to create the agenda and to create
-- you know, load all the items in there, and then they will be the ones
scheduling the training.
So -- and, like I said, if we need more than one training,
definitely. Once you see it, it's very easy to use. If you use a computer
nowadays, you will be able to use it.
MS. CURLEY: It's a huge savings in toner and paper. It is huge.
MS. SERRANO: It is. Okay. Any other questions?
MR. LEFEBVRE: When do you think the implementation will
be?
MS. SERRANO: We have a test environmental. We have an
actual meeting already loaded in there, so we can see how it works.
We have to learn how to create the agenda in there so we can
accomplish that. And so it's -- you know, I would say -- I would say
August, probably.
MR. LAVINSKI: Of this year?
MS. SERRANO: Yes, sir.
June 22, 2017
Page 96
MR. LAVINSKI: Yeah. My term's up next February.
MS. SERRANO: I hope that doesn't make it.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. Thank you, Marlene.
MS. SERRANO: You're welcome.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Our next meeting is -- our next
meeting.
MS. ADAMS: July 27th. It's on the -- this building on the fifth
floor.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: On the fifth floor.
MS. ADAMS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN KAUFMAN: Okay. I did notice they're putting a
new roof on. Okay. No other items, we are adjourned.
*****
June 22, 2017
There being no further business for the good of the County,
the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 11 :45 p.m.
CODE :NFORCE 01 NT BOARD
M►
P it BER g� AN, CHAIRMAN
These m'nutes approved by the Board on • Z - l 3 , as presented
or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF U.S. LEGAL
SUPPORT, INC., BY TERRI LEWIS, NOTARY PUBLIC/COURT
REPORTER.
Page 97