CCPC Minutes 05/01/2003 SMay 1, 2003
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE COLLIER
COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION
Naples, Florida, May 1, 2003
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Planning Commission
in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on
this date at 8:30 AM in SPECIAL SESSION in Building "F of the
Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members
present:
CHAIRMAN:
Kenneth Abernathy
Mark Strain
Dwight Richardson
Lora Jean Young
Lindy Adelstein
Brad Schiffer
Paul Midney
Russell Budd-Absent (Excused)
David Wolfley-Absent (Excused)
ALSO PRESENT: Joe Schmitt, Community Dev. & Environmental Services
Ray Bellows, Planning Services
Marjorie Student, Assistant County Attorney
Stan Litsinger, Planning Services
Continuation of the LDC Amendment Meetin~ of Aoril 30, 2003
Pledge of Allegiance was recited.
Roll Call was taken - a Quorum was established with Mr. Budd and Mr. Wolfley not in
attendance.
Nancy Linnan - County's outside Growth Management Council
Mr. Strain addressed and asked the following:
- Page 35 - Section E -lC - asked about the Master Plan and WRA's. Nancy will check
to make sure it is in compliance.
- Page 39 & 40 - make the word "sufficient" throughout the paragraph.
- Page 36 - make "complete & sufficient" consistent.
- Page 37-F1 A - talks about Public Hearing before the EAC - forms of public notice -
may need to be stipulated - Nancy thought there was no required notice but will make
sure.
- Paragraph below - legal description "sketch & survey" - page 23 - refers to "map or
sketch" will make consistent. Paragraph "C" - same thing - needs consistency.
- Page 39 - C4 - Changes in the Design Criteria etc. - he asked about the SSA needs or
the SRA areas - Nancy will change the language so it is clear.
- Page 40-2I - Typical cross sections - he addressed if it was asking for deviations to the
LDC - applied again or what? They can address it later when it talks about deviations to
the LDC.
- Page 41 - H9 - Overall acreage of gross density - Nancy stated the overall acreage is
the gross acreage- real acreage.
- Page 42 - J - 4th line up from bottom - Residential Units in an SRA - answered.
- Page 44 - D2 - talks about Buffer around West Side of the Camp Key Strand - he
asked why only the West side? Nancy stated it was the agreement of the Wildlife
Federation and the Eastern Land owners.
Next paragraph - storm water - earthmining - is wrong site and will be corrected.
- Page 44 - Par C - top - needs to be defined better.
- Page 45 - #7 - Infrastructure requirements - ref 3.15 of the LDC - this is being
rewritten at the present time.
Item C - Water & Sewer - will County take over systems eventually? Nancy did not
know-no decision yet. Mark felt the language should be as tight as it can be for future
decisions.
Item D - Septic Systems - mean town being fed off a water supply when supposed to
have centralized water and sewer? Yes - want edge effect. (100 acres of any town)
Mark didn't think it sounded like a compact rural development.
- Page 46 - K1-B - Transportation Impact Assessment- talked about public
transportation and wanted to know who defines "applicable"....Nancy responded
"County does".
-Page 47- 6A2 - Storm water flow patterns across the site - he asked if it would be more
useful to have the existing and historic storm water low pattern, so if trying to restore or
make better, they can be mimicked as close as possible? Nancy said "yes".
- Page 48- if WRA is located between two developments, which one benefits from the
WRA? Nancy responded the first one that claims it - they only get to claim it once.
Project B - use for capacity - response "yes".
- Page 49-3-Special Assessments - 3rd line - government reference, the landowner will
accede to a special assessment on his property - he asked if the landowner would be a
Community Development District? Nancy said "yes".
Nancy responded on comments made the day before.
- Citation on Page 44 - is correct.
- Issue rose about the numbers. She stated when meeting with the Environmental
Community and Commissioner Strain, he had prepared a chart showing the worse
possible case of how any credits could be generated and what it means in acreage. She
studied it, and felt it was a good set of assumptions on a worse case basis. She stated
nobody anticipates those numbers, but in discussions of need and numbers, the agency
wasn't worded about it in the end. They determined, on behalf of the County and the
State, and mainly within the parameters of the Growth Management Act, why they did
not think it was a concern.
First the numbers increased drastically even after submitting the data and analysis.
(Increase in acreage and population)
She talked about the FL Wildlife Federation Restoration credits - official map and
the Departments insistence. It all looked great on paper - but they were concerned it
wouldn't work. Five or ten year timeframe may not work. (5 & 7 year check)
Department insisted to provide for the early entry bonus for someone coming in for first 5
years and do the HSA's and the flow-way stewardship areas. Early incentive bonuses
were not available for the water retention areas. Credits would increase drastically. The
Eastern Lands had gone through a data process, and because of it, given the data and
analysis, assuming all the credits were used; the areas of natural resources would be
protected. They have protected the stuff they wanted to protect. There are going to be
compact areas. Assuming Mr. Strain's numbers are correct, the reaction was, instead of
putting all the growth on 10 or 15% of the property, it is on 31% of the property limiting
the growth to a hugh population influx.
Mr. Strain explained how he got his figures. With how much land is developed was a
big impact on how they were reviewed. When he realized the bonuses and other things
had not been factored into the 16,000, he thought it would be wise to see what kind of an
impact it would have.
His analysis was attached and a copy given to each Commissioner.
Mr. Richardson talked about the worse case scenario in doubling the size of Collier
County and wondered if they should look at this in 5 years.
Nancy stated not much would be happening nor have an impact within the 5 year period.
But she stated the Commissioners can always ask staff for information or an update at
anytime.
Mr. Richardson said they need to think about caps and good planning projections. Has
to be balanced out on terms of the total impact.
Nancy said legislature is very detailed and question whether they can add additional
stoppers. They split it up because they thought this was the easy part - putting in place
the process. They thought the hard part would be the design guidelines.
Mr. Richardson is looking at density and neutrality.
Stan Litsinger responded they are looking at a possible Collier County fiscal impact
analysis model that would be customized relative to the impact and demonstrate the
neutrality.
Mr. Richardson is concerned about letting it grow out of bounds.
The Comprehensive Plan can be amended at anytime twice a year. Discussion followed
on getting the information at anytime and changing the rules if needed. If better
connections are needed the LDC Amendments can also be changed and something added.
Mr. Midney was concerned about the potential 300,000 population. He spoke of the
zoning of 40,000 five acre tracts. If 300,000 people in the area and take up 50,000 acres
of land, it will have a major impact on habitat and agriculture. He can see how the plan
covers conservation of the natural areas, but not how it discourages premature conversion
of agricultural land to dwellings. There is no point system such as; where a production of
an orange grove - where is the incentive to keep it in agriculture.
Nancy said it is because they are limiting the growth to certain areas and forms of
development - taking the potential areas of growth out of the most sensitive areas. There
will be open land and would probably remain in agriculture.
Mr. Midney feels they could have had incentives for it.
Discussion followed on prime agricultural land and agri-business.
Mr. Midney stated 80% of the people in Immokalee work on farms and they depend on
them. They will be impacted the most if agriculture is squeezed out. Nancy stated most
of the persons on the Task Force were from the Immokalee area.
Marti Chumbler spoke of the Stewardship Credit worksheet. Mr. Midney said there is a
"slight" incentive to keep some of it in agriculture. He talked about the Immokalee area
being poor and about 80% Hispanic and black. He said with fanning being not as
profitable, they now want to develop towns outside of Immokalee. It has only grown 1%
a year. They could become more segregated than they are now. It could shrivel up if the
economic base is gone.
Impact on Ag, sprawl, sewer, and water quality were discussed. Nancy suggested
waiting and seeing how the system works before making any changes. She stated these
4
questions can't be raised within the context of the Land Development Code proposed
Amendments.
The Ava Maria University was discussed using up conservation credits, open space and
density. They will not use conservation credits. More discussion followed on the usage
of the land.
- Page 48 -ground water impact statement was removed- he questioned why it was
deleted - Nancy responded they went back to the language and determined ground water
was not in the list - it is not a facility impact. It is included in other areas. A lengthy
discussion followed between Mr. Midney and Nancy on the South Florida Water
Management District measuring hydro periods, water quality and maintaining the natural
balance of wetlands.
SPEAKERS
Nicole Ryan - Conservancy of SWFL - The Conservancy had sent an e-mail with
concerns on April 9th on the first draft of the Amendments and since then many of their
concerns have been addressed. Some of the issues and concerns were as follows:
- A review at the end of 5 years - will that be soon enough and could it be reviewed
earlier.
- Nothing in the LDC Amendments allows County staff to look at the SRA's on anything
besides an SRA by SRA basis. When a new SRA is proposed the County may look to
see how they are planned in conjunction with each other, but not explicit in the plan.
- Would sprawl be created?
- The population at build out. It would have been helpful to have numbers when the
GMP's went through.
- Transportation - how will the SRA's affect it? Worse case scenario build out will be
stress on the roads in the rural lands. What kind of highways and road systems are going
to be built? Will they be appropriate?
- April 28th draft - definitions on page 3 - ancillary use for a University - not specific
enough.
Page 8 & 10 - definition for drilling - working on different language.
Page 45 - deviations from the LDC - isn't comfortable with language in draft & will
work on different language.
Mrs. Young also agreed the need for an update before the 5 years.
Nancy mentioned they can ask staff what is out there cumulatively.
Mrs. Young also suggested the speakers not use the acronyms and is more
communicative to use the descriptive.
Brad Cornell - Collier County Audubon Society - they are supportive of the policies
in the Growth Management Plan and the concept growth should protect the final
resources identified on the maps. They are providing and gathering comments for the
benefit for the next draft. Restoration areas around the Camp Key Strand and the
Callaway Slue are there because of protecting the wetlands in the flowways and needed
to be incentives for protecting uplands. Restore agricultural fields to viable habitat for
wide range species like panthers and bears. They will offer more comments and are
supportive.
Nancy Peyton - FL Wildlife Federation - they are working on some issues with
County staff and assured they will be worked out. Some of the comments are as follows:
Mr. Strains chart is the best case scenario - protection of all the habitat stewardship
areas, the flow way stewardship areas and the other sending lands including the
restoration lands.
Restoration lands - appear on map because of negotiations with landowners.
(Improves the corridors) Providing incentives for farm lands to be restored helped
facilitate wildlife movement.
- Caution not to encumber the process for designating Sending Lands.
- Supports section in LDC to allow the County acquire and retire Stewardship credits.
(Controls growth)
- West side of Camp Key Strand - want to enhance it - better to widen it on one side for
restoration enhancement.
Mr. Schiffer addressed the matter of the Master Plan and Development Plans being
submitted by a member of the AICP and he asked why. Nancy responded that they have
to be signed off by a number of people; an engineer and planner, who is a member of the
AICP, or a landscape architect. That was the consensus of the environmental community.
Mr. Schiffer noted the AICP is a private organization. All architects need to be licensed.
Mrs. Chambler said it is an effort to ensure the individual has expertise in land planning.
Nancy could put in language that an architect be added that has expertise in land
planning.
The second hearing of the LDC Amendments, 2.2.2.7 Rural Lands Stewardship
Areas Zoning Overlay will be held on May 14, 2003, at 5:05 PM. in the Council
Chambers.
The Public Hearing was closed at 10:00 AM.
There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was
adjourned by order of the Chair at 11:55 AM.
COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION
Chairman Mr. Kenneth Abemathy