CCPC Minutes 04/06/2017 April 6,2017
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION
Naples,Florida,April 6th,2017
LET IT BE REMEMBERED,that the Collier County Planning Commission, in and for the County of
Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in REGULAR SESSION in
Building "F" of the Government Complex, 3299 East Tamiami Trail, Naples, Florida, with the following
members present:
CHAIRMAN: Mark Strain
Stan Chrzanowski
Patrick Dearborn
Diane Ebert
Edwin Fryer
Karen Homiak
Joe Schmitt
ALSO PRESENT:
Mike Bosi,Planning and Zoning Manager
Corby Schmidt,Principal Planner
Heidi Ashton-Cicko,Managing Assistant County Attorney
Tom Eastman, School District Representative
Page 1 of 26
AGENDA
COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION WILL MEET AT 9:00 A.M., APRIL 6, 2017, IN
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS MEETING ROOM, ADMINISTRATION
BUILDING, COUNTY GOVERNMENT CENTER, THIRD FLOOR, 3299 TAMIAMI TRAIL EAST,
NAPLES, FLORIDA:
NOTE: INDIVIDUAL SPEAKERS WILL BE LIMITED TO 5 MINUTES ON
ANY ITEM. INDIVIDUALS SELECTED TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF AN
ORGANIZATION OR GROUP ARE ENCOURAGED AND MAY BE ALLOTTED
10 MINUTES TO SPEAK ON AN ITEM IF SO RECOGNIZED BY THE
CHAIRMAN. PERSONS WISHING TO HAVE WRITTEN OR GRAPHIC
MATERIALS INCLUDED IN THE CCPC AGENDA PACKETS MUST SUBMIT
SAID MATERIAL A MINIMUM OF 10 DAYS PRIOR TO THE RESPECTIVE
PUBLIC HEARING. IN ANY CASE, WRITTEN MATERIALS INTENDED TO
BE CONSIDERED BY THE CCPC SHALL BE SUBMITTED TO THE
APPROPRIATE COUNTY STAFF A MINIMUM OF SEVEN DAYS PRIOR TO
THE PUBLIC HEARING. ALL MATERIAL USED IN PRESENTATIONS
BEFORE THE CCPC WILL BECOME A PERMANENT PART OF THE RECORD
AND WILL BE AVAILABLE FOR PRESENTATION TO THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS IF APPLICABLE.
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THE CCPC WILL
NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND
THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF
THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE
TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
1. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
2. ROLL CALL BY SECRETARY
3. ADDENDA TO THE AGENDA
4. PLANNING COMMISSION ABSENCES
5. APPROVAL OF MINUTES — January 30, 2017 "Special LDC meeting", February 2, 2017 and
February 1f,, 2017
6. BCC REPORT- RECAPS
7. CHAIRMAN'S REPORT
8. CONSENT AGENDA
9. ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS:
A. PL20160001100 / CP -2016-2: A Resolution of the Board of County Commissioners of
Collier County, Florida proposing amendment to Ordinance No. 89-05, as amended, the
Collier County Growth Management Plan for the unincorporated area of Collier County,
Florida, specifically amending the Future Land Use Element and Future Land Use Map and
map series by changing the designation of property from Urban, Mixed Use District, Urban
Residential Subdistrict, to Urban, Commercial District, Logan Boulevard/Immokalee
Road Commercial Infill Subdistrict to allow a maximum of 100,000 square feet of gross
floor area for uses allowed by right and by conditional use in the C4, General Commercial,
zoning district, and furthermore recommending transmittal of the amendment to the Florida
Department of Economic Opportunity. The subject property is located on the southeast
corner of the intersection of Immokalee Road and Logan Boulevard in Section 28,
Township 48 South, Range 26 East, consisting of 18.6± acres. [Coordinator: Corby Schmidt,
AICP, Principal Planner]
B. An Ordinance of the Board of County Commissioners of Collier County, Florida,
establishing a temporary moratorium on cannabis dispensing businesses as further
defined herein; providing for penalties, providing for non-inclusion in the code of laws and
ordinances; providing for conflict and severability; and providing for an effective date.
[Coordinator: Mike Bosi, AICP, Director]
10. NEW BUSINESS
11. OLD BUSINESS
12. PUBLIC COMMENT
13. ADJORN
CCPC Agenda/Ray Bellows/jmp
April 6,2017
PROCEEDINGS
MR.BOSI: Chair,you have a live mike.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you,Mike.
Welcome,everybody,to the April 6th meeting of the Collier County Planning Commission.
If everybody will please rise for Pledge of Allegiance.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Before we ask the secretary to do the roll call, I wish to welcome Mr.Ned
Fryer as a new member today. He was appointed with District 4,which is Commissioner Taylor's district.
And with that,I see Karen's just coming on board. So,Diane,would you mind doing the roll call,
please.
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: You had to say it out loud.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: We had to wait for you to get here.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: We're waiting for you,Karen.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Yes,good morning. Now you got me.
Mr.Eastman?
MR.EASTMAN: Here.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Mr.Chrzanowski?
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Here.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Mr.Fryer?
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Here.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Ms.Ebert is here.
Mr. Strain?
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Here.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Ms.Homiak?
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Here.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Mr. Schmitt?
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Present.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: And,Mr.Dearborn?
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Present.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you.
Addenda to the agenda: We have two items scheduled. One is the Logan Boulevard/Immokalee
Road commercial infill subdistrict. The other is the temporary moratorium on marijuana dispensing
businesses. This says"cannabis"(phonetic),but I never heard it referred to like that generally, so...
And then,Mike,I think you had an add-on item you wanted to talk about.
MR.BOSI: Correct,Chair. It's under new business;just a temporary change to the administrative
code. I wanted to speak to the Planning Commission that we're--before we get to the Board of County
Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: But for the benefit of the audience that's either watching or here that may
want to stay for that,can you tell us what the subject matter is?
MR.BOSI: It's a proposal to eliminate the holding of NIMs. NIMs are neighborhood information
meetings which are required for all public land use petitions. There's a suggestion that we would eliminate
the June,July,and August months as being eligible for NIMs.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you. And that will be added as a new business item under 10.
Planning Commission absences: Our next meeting is this month on April 20th. Does anybody know
if they're not going to make it on the 20th?
COMMISSIONER FRYER: I'll be here.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Anybody--okay.We'll have a quorum.
That brings us to the approval of minutes.And since we had such a long vacation,if you want to call
it that,for the last almost six weeks,we have a series of minutes to be approved. We'll take them one at a
time. The first one's Jan 30th,2017,special LDC meeting. If there's no changes,is there a motion to
approve?
Page 2 of 26
April 6,2017
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: So moved.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: By Patrick. Seconded by?
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Second.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: By Stan. Discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: All in favor,signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Aye.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Aye.
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Motion carries 7-0.
That takes us to the second one,which is February 2nd,2017. Same request. Anybody?
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: So moved.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Motion to approve by Stan.
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Second.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Seconded by Karen. Discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: All in favor,signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Aye.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Aye.
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Motion carries 7-0.
And the third one is February 16th,2017.Same request.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: So moved.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Stan,motion to approve. Seconded by?
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Second.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Karen.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Discussion.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Discussion.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: On those three--and I don't know where it is. You spelled a
word h-a-1-t,h-a-u-1-t. If you do a control F,you'll be able to find it. It's not important,but--you know.
There's--the rest of them were okay.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. With that note,all those in favor,signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Aye.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Aye.
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Aye.
Page 3 of 26
April 6,2017
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Motion carries 7-0.
BCC report and recaps: Mike,that is you today, I assume.
MR.BOSI: I did not prepare any recaps from the Board of County Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: So we need Ray to do that.Does he have to show up for all these meetings?
MR. BOSI: At the 28th,they did adopt the golf course moratorium,or the golf course amendments
that now require stakeholder outreach meetings in a process before an application,before a golf course could
be converted. So at the last meeting the Board did adopt those amendments related to golf course conversion.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Good. Thank you,sir.
Under chairman's report,just a couple of notes,since we've been away for a while. Please remember
to speak,let's say,slow enough for the court reporter to be able to take down our discussion because she has
to keep up with everything we say. And a few of us have had some coffee this morning,so we tend to talk
faster. I will try to be slow.
And that goes to Mr.Hancock,too. He's in the audience,and he's going to be presenting today. So
cautioning him ahead of time.
And also,for members of the commission,please wait to be recognized before you speak so that we
don't have people talking over one another,again,for the court reporter.
And with that,we will move into the--well,consent agenda. There's nothing left over from our
prior meeting. Oh,I'll do a report. Tollgate,finally,after weeks,got the language corrected,and it now is
moving on to the Board.
What date is that scheduled,Mike;do you know? Well,that's a Ray issue,right?
MR. BOSI: No. I believe it's--I believe the April 25th. It's scheduled for the summary agenda.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Great,thank you.
And that takes us to the advertised public hearings.
***The first item up is 9A. It's PL20160001100/CP2016-2. It's Logan Boulevard/Immokalee Road
Commercial Infill subdistrict.
All those wishing to testify on behalf of this item,please rise to be sworn in by the court reporter.
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: We'll start with disclosures with Mr.Eastman way on the end.
MR. EASTMAN: None.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Stan?
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I got a bunch of emails a long time ago,even before I got
the packet,and then I talked to Tim Hancock and the attorney. What's his name?
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Bruce.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Bruce,yeah. I'm joking. I'm joking.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: None.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Yes. I talked with Mr.Ratteree,I've talked with staff,and I've talked
with Mr.Anderson.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. And I have,likewise,all the same individuals that Diane has talked
to plus Mr.Hancock this morning and various members of the civic association,with the Oaks Advisory
Group,and some people with Saturnia.
So with that,Diane?
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Karen.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I mean Karen;I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: I had nothing. I've just phone-tagged with Bruce Anderson,and—
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Joe?
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Spoke with Tim Hancock;just discussed the issues primarily related
to the authorized uses. Nothing other significant.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Patrick?
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: None.
Page 4 of 26
April 6,2017
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. With that,we will move directly into the presentation by the
applicant,then we'll--I see the applicant's looking at you. Is there a reason for that?
MR. SCHMIDT: Yes. Mr.Chairman,if you'd allow me to speak for a few moments before they
give their presentation. Over the last few weeks you and a number of others have received more than two
different recommendations on this application,and I want to be sure that all of us are working from the same
document. The most recent recommendation,at least the Planning Commissioners themselves,you should
have received as a handout before you sat down. A few pages--
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: I didn't.
MR. SCHMIDT: —do not have a heading,do not have page numbers,and the top page appears to
be two colors with underlining and strikethrough editing. That's the document we'll be focusing on today.
After I speak here,I'll make sure that the public has them and the audience,if they ask for them.
For this handful,these five pages,the most important pages to focus on really are the last two pages.
Because we have worked quickly with staff and the applicant team,you have in front of you a more
easily-read clean version on those last two pages to follow along,not muddled by previous strikethroughs and
underlines.
I'll mention a few things about the document.When it leaves here today,we will reorder it so it's
more like the LDC reads. I believe that this is just the work order. There wasn't time to also do that
previously.
Also to mention--and this has been the approach all along--some of those specific limitations on
certain uses would be captured in the companion Planned Unit Development document when that time
comes,and that will be presented by Tim as well.
And,obviously,the Exhibit A version of this,again,once it leaves you with your recommendation
today,will be entirely underlined because it's an all-new subdistrict.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Is that all at this point?
MR.SCHMIDT: It is,thank you.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Tim, it's all yours.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Question on the--
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Oh,go ahead.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Corby,the email you sent out on the 31st with that attachment,so
that's no longer valid either?
MR.SCHMIDT: It is--
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: It's been superceded.
MR. SCHMIDT: It's been superceded,yes.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: By this document then?
MR.SCHMIDT: Correct.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Because you had--basically that was the staff report and many
changes,again,to the uses?
MR. SCHMIDT: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Okay.
MR. SCHMIDT: And now this latest version is a bit closer to where we want to be.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: And this morning,or last night,there was another version sent to me by Mr.
Anderson that Corby has attached to the—that's part of the package you just handed out,is it not?
MR. SCHMIDT: Yes.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: That's what I thought.Okay. So,Mike?
MR.BOSI: And,Chair,just to point out,and especially for some of the newer members,this is a
Growth Management Plan amendment. This is a full-scale amendment and,as required by state statute,this
will be heard twice by the Planning Commission;once during transmittal and then a recommendation will be
forward to the Board of County Commissioners. The Board of County Commissioners will take action on
that item. It will be sent to the State Department of Economic Opportunity. They were provided a review. It
will come back,we'll make modifications,if any,based upon the state review,and then we'll have adoption
hearings.
Page 5 of 26
April 6,2017
So this is a two--or this is a two-step process. This is the first of the transmittal hearings,and then
we'll have adoption hearings,but that will be later on. So just--so for the new members,that's the process
that's associated with a Growth Management Plan--a full-scale amendment to the Growth Management
Plan.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Joe?
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: And,Mike,do you anticipate,when it comes back for adoption,it
will be accompanied with the PUD amendment as well?
MR.BOSI: That is--that is traditionally how we handle it. At transmittal it's solely as the Growth
Management Plan amendment. When it comes back,it will have the corresponding Planned Unit
Development with the specific zoning regulations and restrictions and development standards that will be
reviewed by the Planning Commission and ultimately decided by the Board of County Commissioners.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Okay.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. The only issue I'd like to point out is that this is a good way to
approach it by listing the principal and prohibited uses. It makes it clear to the residents and to the public
exactly what is intended for the use of this property.
And I have to applaud the applicant for amending it the number of times over the last period of time
because they got input from various civic associations and individuals about things that were concerning.
And it appears that since the applicant wasn't going to want those uses anyway,they agreed,and that's how
some of these amendments came about.
Now,for the first round,when we first got it,I sat and compared an amendment then with what
Corby had proposed,and then I had a meeting with staff,and we walked through all the differences.Well,
since then there's been two more submittals of differences.
So all I want to make sure is that by the time we're done today,we've got a handle on what it is that
we're changing,and then more--you're scheduled to have this heard when by the Board of County
Commissioners? Do we know?
MR. HANCOCK: May 9th,sir.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Because we have a meeting on the 20th that this would most likely
come back,then,on consent to make sure that everything that has been talked about today gets properly
allocated here.
Mike,would that jeopardize--a consent jeopardize their hearing before the Board?
MR.BOSI: No. We can most certainly post the item to the agenda system and be able to update it
post the consent hearing for the Planning Commission.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. And we'll confirm the consent before the day's over,so...
Okay. With that,Tim,it's all yours.
MR. HANCOCK: Good morning. Tim Hancock with StanTech representing the applicant,
Immokalee Road Associates. My co-agent on this application,Bruce Anderson,had to attend to an
emergency situation last night,sends his apologies and regrets;mainly his regret to the court reporter and the
rest of you,as you have to listen to me instead of him.
But the applicant,Immokalee Road Associates, is represented here today by Kevin Ratterree with
GL. Many of you have seen Kevin over the years representing primarily residential projects in Collier
County;and also Mr.Michael Friedman with GL commercial,a project team here today to address any
questions you may have. It is not our intent to put them on for testimony purposes at this time;Mr.Jeff
Perry,AICP,a transportation planner with Stantec;and Kristine Smale,market and demand
analysis--excuse me--analyst with John Burns Real Estate Consulting.
Bruce indicated to me he was going to make some brief introductory remarks,so I'll do my best to
channel my inner Bruce and just give you some background information and then open things up for your
questions this morning.
The aerial you see on the visualizer shows the property,which is at 18.6 acres,lying at the southeast
corner of the intersection of Immokalee Road and Logan Boulevard.
To the west of the property is Logan Boulevard,and then further beyond that,predominantly Estates
zoning,better known as the Oaks homeowners'area. And as you go further west is Tarpon Bay,and then
Page 6 of 26
April 6,2017
1-75,which is all the way out to the left of the aerial you see before you.
To the north and west are the communities of Longshore Lake,Quail Creek Village,and Quail Creek
a little bit more to the north.
Northeast lies a pocket community called Lantana,as well as the community of Old Cypress,and
further north are Riverstone and Stone Creek,both of which are GL communities.
To the west and southwest is approximately 20 acres of vacant land,and then Saturnia Lakes,and
those would be directly east--I'm sorry,directly east,and then another GL community,which is Saturnia
Lakes,further to the east and also to the south and east.
Directly south is a landscape nursery and maintenance business owned by Mr.Colin Walker under
the name Workaholics.
The dominant effect of this aerial to me is when you look at it what you see first and foremost are the
high number of residential rooftops within a relatively small area,a lot of developments,a lot of residents
needing services.
And all exhibits being placed on the visualizer are parts of your packet today. None of these exhibits
are new.
This aerial shows more the immediate proximity of the site to its surroundings. The plan of
development that this GMPA would authorize is to construct up to I00,000 square feet of commercial
shopping center and outbuildings on 18.6 acres.This is an intensity of approximately 5,400 square feet per
acre. This is a rather low intensity when compared to more recent commercial shopping center developments
which typically will fall somewhere north of 7,000 square feet to about 9,000 square feet per acre.
While a Growth Management Plan amendment does not typically require--does not typically
require a site plan,we've included one in our application to help the public and this body see the style and
character of development being proposed.
With the lower intensity and the interest from restaurants and specialty grocers,this development
will be more of a lifestyle center versus a traditional shopping center focusing on providing goods and
services to those that lie within the immediate surrounding area.
The site plan you see here is the basis for a rezone application that has already been filed for this
project and received its first round of review comments. Assuming this Growth Management Plan
amendment is approved for transmittal,we anticipate bringing the rezone application forward for
consideration by this body at the same time you're considering the Growth Management Plan amendment for
adoption. This will allow for any furthering of development regulations to be considered at that time as the
land use change to ensure increased consistency and compatibility with the surrounding properties.
This project is rather unique in that GL has developed and continues to develop high-quality
residential communities in the area. From Satumia Lakes to their current effort at Stone Creek,their residents
have many times spoken of their wish to have quality and convenient commercial development nearby.
GL sees this project as an opportunity to provide a commercial amenity to its residents in a central
location bringing desirable end-users to the marketplace for not just their residents,but all residents in the
area.
GL is also not just the developer of this project. Their model is to develop,lease,own,and maintain
their commercial assets for the long term. This has allowed us,in our interaction with residents,to speak
with a higher degree of specificity at this stage than we normally would be,and it's been most helpful,quite
honestly,in how we deal with the questions and comments that have been received so far.
Mr.Ratterree and Mr.Friedman took this approach several steps further in a very open and thorough
public involvement and information campaign by meeting with surrounding neighborhoods and discussing
the development plans in detail. Starting in October of last year,they met with the residents of Long Shore
Lakes and Old Cypress. In November,they met with the residents of Saturnia Lakes,and with the
community of Riverstone in December.
We then held our required information meeting in March and have also had many followup
conversations by email and telephone with interested residents,including the Oaks Homeowners'group,and
have further amended our proposed language to address as many of the concerns that have been raised as
possible.
Page 7 of 26
April 6,2017
This extensive and collaborative effort involving communicating and listening was evident in our
neighborhood information meeting in March where there were more questions about how quickly we can get
this project built than there were concerns.
While everyone recognizes every project has its challenges,Immokalee Road is not the most
pleasant roadway at 5:30 or 6 o'clock in the evening when traveling to the east. That being said,for
thousands of residents,this project will serve to provide services and convenience retail closer to them than
currently existing and may have an overall benefit in at least reducing lane miles traveled for certain services.
Also included within your packet--and we do not plan on putting on testimony,but Kristine is here
to answer any questions--is a market study that we found to be very thorough in the sense that not only did it
identify what the needs are,it also identified where there are needs. And that basis was used by staff in
suggesting that certain uses not be included.
If we live by the sword,we die by the sword.So if our market study says a certain element isn't
required or there's no demand,well,there's no reason to put it in our language. And so the market study,I
think,really did a very nice job of capturing the demand in the area,and we believe the uses that you see here
and the intensity level of the project respond to that market study very well.
We've all received emails of support from residents of Saturnia Lakes,Riverstone,and Stone Creek.
I have copies of those emails in the event they were not forwarded to you at some point in this process,and I
will be providing those as a part of the record today.
I guess what I'd like to do is put the language up that is--as Mr.Schmidt indicated,probably the
easiest way to look at this language is to look at the clean-copy version. What I've done is we have a total of
four--and I do have additional copies of this for the record as well.
Mr. Strain,this may be what you received from Mr.Anderson last night,but I'm not entirely--
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: It is,yes. At least I recognize the highlighting and the format,so...
MR. HANCOCK: We're pleased to be here before you today with a staff recommendation of
approval based on revised and updated language with regard to permitted and disallowed land uses in the
Growth Management Plan amendment. The list of permitted uses you see in the most recent language here as
proposed by staff is the result of the community meetings that Fve elaborated on.
The only changes that we are offering or suggesting here are to make minor clarifications to ensure
that what has been conveyed publicly is fully represented in the Growth Management Plan language. That
being said,my conversation with Mr. Schmidt before the hearing,a couple of these clarifications may be
most appropriate in the zoning document,at which time we are happy to move those down the road. But we
wanted to make sure that the residents who were watching and monitoring this knew that we heard what they
requested and that we're doing our best to make sure that we identify those uses and,more importantly,the
ones that may not be included going forward.
So let me go over those--the changes in front of you. Mr.Chairman,would it be helpful to
everyone if I handed out hard copies of this?
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I think you already did,didn't you? They're the back two pages of what we
previously--the package we have.
MR.HANCOCK: Okay. If you have the--
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: It's a four-or five-page package,and I think the back two pages—
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: The back two pages is,yeah.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Of course,it's not highlighted in yellow.
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: No,it's not.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Do you have one highlighted in yellow--
MR.HANCOCK: I do,sir.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: --so it matches what you're saying?
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: But the back two pages are not that,that I have.
MR. STONE: Mr.Chair,I believe that the document given to you by Corby earlier does not
encompass those changes that are presented on the screen right now.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: They're not.
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: They're not.
Page 8 of 26
April 6,2017
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay.
MS.ASHTON-CICKO: Tim,how many copies would--let me see. Who hasn't got a copy here?
COMMISSIONER FRYER: I don't.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Well,since I do everything electronically,I don't have a copy. This is
only--
MR.HANCOCK: It should be one page front and back. I made 15 copies,so we should be
ballpark.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Do we have any left over for any members of the public that would wish to
see it? The County Attorney's Office,did you get one?
MR. STONE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: I think Heidi needs one.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Well,she's getting one.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: So,in essence,this now--
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Replaces that packet.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: --replaces this?
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: That's correct. Well,that's what I think the applicant's asking. We've just
got to walk through it.
MR.HANCOCK: That's correct. I have four items to point out to you and,like I said,two of them
may be most appropriate for the PUD,and we'll accept your direction on that,but let me go over the
four--these are the--there are only four changes to what--Corby's language that you last received. So let
me go over those four very quickly with you.
The first one,under personal services,miscellaneous,7299,we're offering a clarification here
because there were a lot of things under 7299 that were found objectionable. And so what we're suggesting
is,whether this be more appropriate for the PUD or for the Growth Management Plan amendment,we'll seek
your direction on,but that we allow only depilatory salons and hair removal to--in a sense these are the same
thing. These are wax salons and so forth. I'm married. I know about these things. Tanning salons and
massage services only as part of an establishment such as a day spa providing other permitted uses.
The reason for this clarification is we wanted to make sure that,for lack of a better phrase,the more
seedy elements of things such as massage parlors and Turkish baths are prohibited;however,day spas,
MassageLuXe,Massage Envy,we received positive feedback from the community on those uses.
So we wanted to draw that distinction,and it doesn't really exist in the SIC code. So we're crafting
on the fly with this. Again,maybe more appropriate in the PUD as opposed to the Growth Management Plan
and,again,your direction on that is welcome.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Before we head off that one,since you are discussing that issue at this time,
personal services--and it says everything you just stated,but it says only as a part of an establishment such
as a day spa providing other permitted uses. Where is a day spa spelled out as being permitted to begin with
so that those other uses could be associated with it? You're saying it's 7299,is what Pm assuming.
MR.HANCOCK: Unfortunately,if you're a--when we talk about a spa,you talk about something
like a MassageLuXe or a Massage Envy. They actually fall under,when they get their business license,SIC
Code 7299. There are considered a massage parlor by SIC code standards. The purpose of this definition is
to try and draw a distinction that a massage parlor would not be permitted but a day spa,which is--I'm sorry,
but it's fairly undefined--would be.
And maybe that's why the crafting of this is better in the PUD,but we want to make sure we're clear
on that distinction.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: If we focus on the last part of that,it says,tanning salons and massage
services only as part of an establishment such as a day spa providing other permitted services. All I'm
suggesting,then,there must be another part of 7299 that specifically allows the element that day spa would fit
under;is that a true statement?
MR.HANCOCK: Yes,sir.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Then wouldn't we want to say include that as part of the
word--after the word"only"so that—if you want to include the day spa to provide as part of the other
Page 9 of 26
April 6,2017
permitted services,it would need to be in the first part of that clarification,wouldn't it?Because right now the
only things you seem to have is the salons and the hair removing and the tanning salons,but the massage
services can only be there if they're part of a day spa,but the day spa isn't a listed item. That all I'm
suggesting.
MR.HANCOCK: I understand,and we've wrestled with this several different ways,and we're
certainly open to clarifying that,as long as the distinction is understood and the record is clear on we're
talking about this character of use,not this character of use.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Did you look at NAICS to see if they had a conversion?
MR.HANCOCK: We did,and it also was not overly clear. And I'm--to be honest with you,1 think
there are some other areas of NAICS that we can cross-reference that will provide some clarity,but I thought
that was a little bit of an undertaking for today's decision.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Tim?
MR.HANCOCK: Yes,ma'am.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Could you maybe put--because I know what you're trying to get at
here.Could you put day spa,have the SIC code and put the day spa first under that?
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: He's saying there's no SIC code for day spa. That's the--
COMMISSIONER EBERT: I know it,but things have changed since'87.
MR.HANCOCK: A few.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: SIC codes haven't changed.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: I know they haven't,but neither have gas stations. But as it turns out,
can you--because I went through this. Can you maybe move the day spa around so it makes more sense in
this?
MR.HANCOCK: We certainly can do that. And let me suggest,as a way to move forward with
today's conversation,that we discuss this from the standpoint of you understand what our intent is.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Yes.
MR.HANCOCK: And if you agree that this may be more appropriate in the PUD,then we can
move it to that and work on the language in the interim.The other alternative would be to work on this
language and bring it back to you as part of GMPA.But either way,I think it's going to take some team work
here to get it put together in a way that everybody's comfortable with.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Well,let's figure that out as we go on and see other changes that you
have,then.
MR.HANCOCK: Okay. Decidedly more easy,under retail services,we've removed 5993,which is
tobacco shops. That was at the request of the Oaks homeowners. So that highlight right there is really just
the removal of SIC Code 5993.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: It says 5994.
MR.HANCOCK: That's correct. It's because it used to say 5992 to 5999.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Oh. I see.
MR.HANCOCK: So I removed 5993 and inserted the next number. So the effect is the removal of
5993.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Got it. Okay. Thanks.
MR.HANCOCK: Under eating places,SIC 5812.Again,at the request of the Oaks homeowners,
we are not including--and these are specific SIC listings under this--dinner theaters;drive-in restaurants;
industrial feeding;and theaters,comma,dinner. Not sure the difference. But since we don't plan on doing
them,we're okay.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Look at your second line under retail. You say 5994 through 5999 except
pawn shops and building materials,comma,then you restate 5992 to 5999 and you go into exceptions again.
What do you need to restate that series of numbers for?
MR.HANCOCK: We don't. I think that was a cut-and-paste leave-in from the original document
that probably needs to be cleaned up.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Just out of curiosity,what's industrial feeding? Like,it's like
Page 10 of 26
April 6,2017
Michelbob's or something?
MR.HANCOCK: Only on rib day.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I hope they weren't listening. I eat there.
MR.HANCOCK: To be honest with you,it's like one of thousands of things in the SIC code,and I
have honestly no idea. I could make something up that sounds good but,you know,the truth is,industrial
feeding to me is just large-scale mass processing of food that you would put forward,you know. For
example,if you were making meals that go on airplanes,that may be qualified as industrial feeding,but that's
the best guess I've got.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Catering services.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: I have a question with respect to the SIC code structure. Is a definition
of a permitted use defined by words of limitation or would the defmition include common understandings,
dictionary definitions of these terms?
MR.HANCOCK: From my experience with the SIC code is the SIC code and the dictionary have
little in uncommon. Crafted in 1987,what it tried to do was list every single thing in the world and put it
under a category,and the problem we have is things such as the example of a MassageLuXe. 1987,most
spas were associated with hotel properties,for example. Well,they've kind of branched out and become
stand-alone uses now,and the SIC code hasn't caught up with it.
So the structure of the SIC code is you have large groups of uses broken down into subheadings,and
under each subheading is a very detailed listing of uses. And if it's not in there,it's not permitted.
So the concern we have as the applicant is that we're trying to figure out where things we're pretty
sure make a lot of sense here fit under the SIC code. And,in some cases,there's not a clean fit.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: So it's defined by words of limitation?
MR.HANCOCK: Yes,sir,in the sense that the descriptors are very specific for each use.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: And at some point,I'm sure that staff will arrange a meeting with Mr.Fryer
so you can pass on these books to him. So you'll get to have a nice,thick book of very pleasant reading so...
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Oh,thank you.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: That will be part of it.
And that is one of the books that you should receive is a Standard Industrial Classification Code.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: I've actually seen them online,but I'd be happy to have the book.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: The online system's actually much better to use than a book.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: I agree.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay,Tim.
MR.HANCOCK: And the last of the four suggested items at the bottom of the first page is under
security and commodity brokers,dealers,exchanges and services;6211 deals with one facet of that,6282
deals with financial advisors,and we were thinking something along the lines of a Charles Schwab or Edward
Jones maybe under a financial advisor and,therefore,we're requesting the addition of 6282.
Those are the only changes or clarifications that we are seeking to the language that staff has put
forward. And with that,I'm going to conclude.And,I'm sorry,the one thing that is not in this that we have
discussed and agreed to is a cap of 45,000 square feet on any one box.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: It's in the top paragraph.
MR.HANCOCK: Is it? Okay.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay.
MR.HANCOCK: And with that--is there anything else,Kevin?
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Well,there is--just a general statement before we go into questions. You
had gotten a letter from--or an email from John Nicola with the Oaks Advisory Group,and in it,apparently,
there was an agreement to strike a series of personal services and some other eating establishments. I find the
eating establishments ones pretty much;industrial feeding,that makes sense.
Where did you strike the personal services?Was that by mere omission of the SIC numbers,or how
did you handle that?
MR.HANCOCK: Yes,sir. And let me get my email from Mr.Nicola.
Page 11 of 26
April 6,2017
Under personal services,which--the ones that they requested be stricken were under our 7299. So
by listing 7299 and allowing only the language you see there,the tanning salons,the depilatory hair removal
and day spas,the rest are,therefore,omitted.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Yeah,this new handout does that. Last night's didn't,so that works.
MR.HANCOCK: And then the--and,Pm sorry.You mentioned that you did see the restaurant
ones,and--
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Yes,sir. Yeah,you've got those. Industrial feeding,Stan's favorite;that
sticks out. So it's there.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Mr.Chairman,I have a question,if I may.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: I'm trying to reconcile the two iterations of,I guess,what is on Page
67,Section 13,the list of permitted uses. And I look at the one that we were handed out this morning,record
and prerecorded tape stores. Aside from the fact that that's fairly archaic language, I guess we're stuck with it.
But then in underlining,which I interfere means addition,is the language"musical instrument stores"with an
SIC code,but I don't see that on the latest iteration,the one with the yellow lines.
MR.HANCOCK: And,sir,I think that's because what you received last night was a strikethrough
underline of things that were being added. This is a clean copy,which means that if they were a part of what
staff was recommending,they have no underline. The only underlines you see here are those that we as the
applicant are asking for your consideration today.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Right,but an ultimate draft of this,the one we received first thing this
morning,has underlined,which I assume means added,right?
MR.HANCOCK: Yes,sir.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Okay. It says,music instrument stores with an SIC code. That is not
what is shown on the latest version. It just simply says record and prerecorded tape stores.
MR. SCHMIDT: Commissioner,I believe I can answer that,okay. The musical instrument store
appears in the strikethrough/underlined version you received as a handout from staff,both struck through and
underlined. It was simply moved to be in a similar grouping.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Does anybody else have any questions of the applicant at this time?
Karen?
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: I do. Dry-cleaning plants,you're looking for dry cleaners,right?
MR.HANCOCK: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Because that's the wrong number. It's 7212. Then you wouldn't
need all the nonindustrial,because that's--dry-cleaning plants is only industrial.
MR.HANCOCK: And I do have a clarification on that that I think I can provide you that was part of
our conversation. 7212 is pickup and dropoff only,basically,and garment pressing. It does not allow for the
actual cleaning of the material.
And what we're talking about here is not a dry-cleaning plant in the traditional sense that you have,
you know,all the chemicals,all that kind of thing. And there are standards now that I think would be most
appropriate at the time of zoning to address.
But,for example,using a brand name out there we all recognize,Tide Dry Cleaners. You know,the
material they get in is in pelletized form;there are no liquid chemicals used. There are green standards for
dry cleaners that I think we can review,look at,and incorporate at the time of zoning. But we want to have
the ability for those green technologies,that green cleaning of clothes to occur on site,not have to be sent off
to another site,which is why,Commissioner Homiak,we have dry-cleaning plants in there,which leaves the
door open for that to occur at time of zoning. Because if it were pickup and dropoff only,even a Tide Dry
Cleaner would not be allowed to locate in this center.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Anything else,Karen?
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: So the--no adult-oriented sales or rentals would come in the PUD
or--since it's--since you have the prerecorded tape stores listed here,would it be included here or later on?
MR.HANCOCK: I believe those--yeah,later on would be the appropriate--I think the PUD
Page 12 of 26
April 6,2017
would be the appropriate place for a further restriction,if required. This is where we go through the
machination of finding out if that's the SIC code that particular use would fall under or whether it's
somewhere else in the code,so it may already be not permitted,but I would have to look at it specifically.
But,clearly,it is our intent not to have that type of use within this project.
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: I was reading the NIM minutes or--and it was in--and also the tire
dealers. It was—I read it. I think it was stated actually at the NIM that you wouldn't have any tire stores for
changing of tires and—for the noise.
MR.HANCOCK: And the auto and home supply are the retail side of that. Again,we can--
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Tire dealers. It includes tire dealers, 5531.
MR.HANCOCK: It was just pointed out to me by my client,under precluded uses,5511 is
precluded.
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: That's—5531 has tire dealers included in that SIC code,auto supply
stores. Did you intend to put a tire dealer there?
MR.HANCOCK: Not a tire dealer;just an auto supply store on the retail.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Under auto supply and home stores under the SIC Code 5531,could
you say except if it lists it as tire dealers as a use,just to list--just say"except tire dealers."You have done
that other locations here,so that would work.
MR.HANCOCK: Yes,sir.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: So,in essence,it allows,like,an AutoZone or whatever,the similar
type of product,but not a--
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Not a Tire Kingdom.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Not a Tire Kingdom.
MR.HANCOCK: Correct.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: To use brand names.
MR.HANCOCK: Sometimes it's the only way to walk through this.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Only way to do it,yeah.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anything else,Karen?
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: I don't think so. I have so many scribbles here I can't tell now.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Well,those are all outdated. We've got a whole new list.
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: I know,but I--
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: You know,I went through the entire—I did the same thing.
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: I know,but I went through the--
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Then I got Corby's change,and now this. This cleans up everything
for me.
MR.HANCOCK: What I did on,again,getting Corby's language last night,is I compared it to the
previous version,and what I found was the net result was two items were removed. Everything else was
relocated or identified,so--
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Yeah.
MR.HANCOCK: --the uses between those two,I think there were only two that were pulled out
altogether,and then the further changes we've discussed this morning.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Anybody else have any questions of the presenter?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Tim,I have one that's probably more holistic in approach then.
Apparently you guys have planned this carefully so far,because I saw the renderings that you included with
the NIM,and I wanted to caution you,by the way,that all those commitments at the NIM,many of them are
more applicable to the PUD,and you did the NIM for both. So I'm sure we'll go through the minutes from
that NIM and make sure that everything you committed to is incorporated in the PUD. So you might expect
that and have it done anyway.
But if these are the uses that you're intending,Pm concerned about the language in the second
paragraph. The subdistrict allows only those uses permitted by right and by conditional use within the C3
zoning district as listed in the Land Development Code amended and in effect as of the day of the adoption of
Page 13 of 26
April 6, 2017
the subdistrict further limited to the following now.
Now,you went to the effort to limit the principal uses that should be there,but then you specifically
listed prohibited uses that you were looking at. And some people--and we've had all kinds of attempts in
front of this board in the future--as the future goes on to say,well,if they really intended all the 123 uses in
C3 to be prohibited that weren't listed,they should have listed them all as prohibited uses.
I don't know if you've done that. When I say 123 uses,I'm not talking about the range in the SIC
codes that fall within every category. That's just the category. So there's probably close to 250 to 300 uses
there,or more,when you get into the sub-uses of the SIC code categories.
What I would suggest is that second paragraph read something to the effect,the subdistrict allows
only those uses,and strike the rest of it until the last four words, "limited to the following." Then
you've--these are the uses you get,and then we can leave the prohibited uses in there as to highlight,but it
clearly takes out the reference to the broadness of Cl through C3 and all those mysterious SIC codes that are
hidden in sub-footnotes to the SIC document that we've--we're not addressing here. And if we had to
address them,we'd be here all afternoon. And I think your client's saying that's okay. That would solve a lot
of issues,so...
MR.HANCOCK: Yes,sir. I think we can come back with that and,with that,do a thorough review
of the Cl,C2,C3 and see if there's anything not listed that is innocuous and makes sense. But,for the most
part,what we have here is what we anticipate--
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. But if we want to--if you want to do what you just suggested,we
would have to hold up on a vote today and vote and maybe do a vote and consent at the same meeting,but we
couldn't do a vote today,then,because you'd be adding things,and you can't do that on consent.
MR.HANCOCK: In that case,never mind.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Diane?
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Could you just repeat what you suggested for them to do so I can write
it down.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Are you making that--are you going to consent to that change?
That's the question.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I think their--I think he said yes. He already acknowledged that.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: I mean,it does clarify;very clear.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: It certainly does.
MR.HANCOCK: And I just wanted to be clear with my client and make sure,you know,I didn't
miss that. But,yes,what you see here is what we intend to do. So what we're talking about is clarifying that
this is not the gamut of Cl through C3. Oh,and we're listing a few more.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I'll read the language,as Diane had asked. That second paragraph would
read something--I mean,Corby likes to change language a bit to clarify it,and he's more than welcome to,
but the intention would be the first six words,"the subdistrict allows only those uses,"and then the last four
of that paragraph,"limited to the following."
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: So everything is struck;everything else is gone.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Everything in between those is gone. The lists stay the same as they are,
and we don't have to worry about any hidden intentions that someone in the future may argue if your client
isn't the one operating this shopping center or something changes,and that typically happens a lot in this
county,so...
MR.HANCOCK: Would you,then,remove the prohibited uses?
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I think for the--I think for your strategy moving forward to the Board,
you'd probably be better off just leaving them in since you're not going to use them anyway,and it does show
that you've gone to the extreme to try to meet the intent--the concerns of the neighborhood. So you're hitting
it both ways.You're hitting it positive in both ways.
MR.HANCOCK: That would have been my preference. But yes,sir,we certainly think that's the
right way to go.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. If there's no other comments from the Planning Commission or the
applicant,we'll—
Page 14 of 26
April 6,2017
MR.HANCOCK: I'm sorry. My client raised a point that the language of that second paragraph,if
it just simply says the subdistrict only allows the following uses.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I know,but I-- 16 years on this board,I have heard all kinds of arguments
from land use planners--or land use attorneys,and I can see them trying to make a reference that,well,if
you really meant to prohibit that use,then it would have been on this list,therefore,it's not,and it gets
convoluted,and I'd rather not even go there. Why open the door if you don't need it?
MR.HANCOCK: You're trying to protect us from ourselves. We appreciate that.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Can we say"this subdistrict."
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: What are you--
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Same thing. That's fine. The wording is clear.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Okay.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Corby,let's go with your presentation. I guess--you're done at this
point,Tim?
MR.HANCOCK: Yes,sir.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Corby?
MR.SCHMIDT: Excusing all the confusion with the multiple handouts,deliveries,emails,
recommendations,et cetera,I think we've worked through most of those issues between the handout version
from staff this morning and what Tim presented with the highlighting.
Those four changes in his handout are understood. I believe only one of them,and that's the personal
services listing,we may have trouble with the language that we may leave to the PUD;otherwise,all of the
other changes he proposes are suitable for the subdistrict language.
I have noted that the second paragraph should be amended in some manner to clarify what we've just
discussed and to omit those tire dealers from the first listing,and that's it.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Anybody have any questions of staff at this point?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: With that,we will entertain the public--any public speakers.
MR.BOSI: Chair,we have had no speaker slips that have been submitted to date. Oh,I guess we
do. My apologies. I should have probably instructed them to--
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Yeah. Anybody that would like to speak,please provide somebody on one
side of the room or the other with the speaker slip. Scott doesn't want them,so he's pushing you over to Mike.
And before either of you come up to speak,we'll do this together. Have you--did you stand to be
sworn in when we started?
MR.NICOLA: No,I did not.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: If you didn't,then please stay standing,and the court reporter will swear
you in.
(The speakers were duly sworn and indicated in the affirmative.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. If you could please state your name for the record,we will certainly
listen.
MR.NICOLA: Sure. John Nicola,representative of the Oaks Estates Neighborhood Association,
and I just wanted to clarify some of the things that we had discussed,and I would like to commend them,first
of all,for their efforts to help us get through this in terms of limiting the uses via SIC code versus the Cl
through 2,3,4.
As we got into it,that was my first concern that I had broached with Kevin. And I'd like to thank
them for going this far to help us out with this and his team over there.
Our biggest concerns with the Oaks Estates were we didn't want a Home Depot/Lowe's,so we were
trying to limit the size of the box there,and that was accomplished by limiting it to 45,000 square feet.
The other issues with ambient sound,lighting,and everything could be handled in the CPUD is my
understanding of that. I want to make sure that's clear.
The last item we wanted to make sure is that the intentions of GL Homes extends beyond them to
any future use or future developer;20,30 years from now we wanted to make sure that if there were changes
or amendments they wanted,it was going to be they would have to go through a complete GMPA
Page 15 of 26
April 6,2017
amendment as well,and I think we've accomplished that. I mean,is that clear?
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: By listing these the way we have,if someone came in and wanted a use that
wasn't listed,they would have to do both a PUD and a GMPA,so they would be in a loop to have to do both.
MR.NICOLA: Okay. Well,then that's everything I just wanted to bring to your attention,and I
appreciate everybody's hard work.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you. Appreciate it.
Next speaker,please.
MS. SNEED: Good morning. My name is Danielle Sneed. I'm a resident of the Oaks. I've lived
there about six or eight months. And I just want to show my support for the project. We are in need of some
local boutique shops and restaurants,so I'm looking forward to this project. And I appreciate your hard work
in looking at all the different details and what can be included and not included.
Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. That wraps up public speakers.
Are there any other questions of anybody by any members of the Planning Commission?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. With that,we'll close the public hearing,and we'll entertain a
motion.
Now,I would like this to come back on consent to just make sure that the changes that we've talked
about and everything reads correctly. So if the motion maker could consider a motion and then also a request
to come back on consent,we'll wrap it up in one.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Okay. Can--I'd like to.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Go ahead,Diane.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: I'd like to make a motion to approve Petition
CP2016-2PL20160001100.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Second.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Motion's been made and seconded. But are those subject to the
changes--
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Subject to--
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: --that we've talked about?
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Subject to the changes we did this morning.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. And we'll do a separate motion for consent then.
Okay. A motion's been made and seconded. Is there discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I would--just to have one comment. It seems consistent with Kevin
Ratterree's manner of operation. You did a great job in working with the neighborhood. I wish everybody
would follow your lead.
This was--I know the changes came fast and furious in the last couple days,but it was well worth it,
and so thank you for the efforts you've outreached to them.
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. And with that,all in favor of this motion,signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Aye.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Aye.
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody opposed?
(No response.)
Page 16 of 26
April 6,2017
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Motion carries 7-0.
And would someone like to make a motion to have this come back on the consent on April 20th.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: I'll make a motion that it comes back April 20th on consent agenda.
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Second.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Seconded by Patrick.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: And before--yes.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Discussion? Go ahead,Diane.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: My discussion is I've worked with Mr.Ratterree before. He has
always come--before he brings it to the county,he has pretty much worked with everyone around him. He
has been gracious taking complaints and,you know,people asking questions. He works very well with the
communities around him,and I want to congratulate him for that also.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. With that,everybody in favor of it coming back for consent,signify
by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Aye.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Aye.
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Motion carries 7-0.
Thank you,all,for your participation in this matter.
***And we will move on to the second advertised public hearing,which is 9B. 9B is an ordinance
by the—supported by the Board of County Commissioners for a temporary moratorium on cannabis
dispensing businesses. This is more of a straw vote. How are we supposed to approach this?I'm not sure we
need to swear everybody in on this one or not.
MR.BOSI: Within the staff report,we do ask the Planning Commission to make a recommendation
to the Board of County Commissioners to move forward with the adoption of the moratorium and direct staff
to bring back the LDC amendments that will dictate the regulations for the sitting of these. So we are asking
for a formal motion.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. It's not a quasi-judicial matter. This is more towards--it's a
confirmation.
MS.ASHTON-CICKO: It's more legislative,so...
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. We'll just move directly into discussion or,if staff wants to make a
report,we've got the pages you sent us. Did you have anything you wanted to add to that?
MR.BOSI: Yeah. Mike Bosi,planning and zoning director. Just want to just--the reason why this
moratorium is before you is really a procedural nature. From a due process standpoint,the LPA,the Planning
Commission is required to hear any amendments to the Land Development Code.
It was suggested by the County Attorney's Office that before we adopted the moratorium that we
have the recommendation in the review of the Planning Commission so procedurally we'd follow the same
process that we would follow for amending the Land Development Code.
So the Board of County Commissioners,with their action on February 14th,have imposed this
moratorium. The resolution will memorialize that it has—it is in effect at the date that the Board directed the
moratorium to be brought back to them.
This is just a procedural step for the Planning Commission to review,and we're looking for
your—for a recommendation for the Board to move forward with the action proposed within the resolution.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Mike,there's been several other moratoriums in the county. I don't recall us
being asked to weigh in on those. Do you know why--we're asking us--why this one's being asked and the
others never did?
Page 17 of 26
April 6,2017
MS.ASHTON-CICKO: At the Board of County Commissioner meeting a couple weeks ago,they
requested that it be reviewed and approved by the Planning Commission.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. But does anybody know why their focus was different on this than
they were on the golf course conversions and the gas station moratoriums and the attempted moratorium on
the East Trail and all those? I mean,what's different about this one that made them think that—this has to
come back to us when the land planning ones of that other nature didn't come back to us for a moratorium
consideration?
MS.ASHTON-CICKO: We have a new board composition,so it might have been that they have
different board members.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. I was just curious what to look for.
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Mark,can I ask a question?
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Go ahead,Patrick.
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Chairman. So my question on this is--and I think I've seen Lee
County has also done something already similar to a 12-month. From a business perspective and regarding
the county and the money that's made or not made by these businesses,this cannabis dispensing business,
since this thing was just passed statewide,would this moratorium affect people just going--I know other
counties around us are not--are moving forward quickly and rapidly. Is that going to affect business,i.e.,
those that want to,potential clients,leaving the county and going to other counties,and are we going to miss
the boat from a financial standpoint gain for the county by having a 12-month moratorium? I'm just asking
the question. I have no idea.
MR.BOSI: I could provide somewhat of a perspective.
The way that the legislative process works,there was the voter referendum. It's become--it's
become an allowable use within the state for medical marijuana. Right now the state legislator(sic)is in the
process of setting up the regulations for how the process will work.
In 2014 the state allowed a limited--a limited strain of marijuana--medical marijuana to be
provided to certain patients with certain ailments. I think it was referred to as Charlotte's Web. And the way
that that structure works is there's seven licensed farms that are allowed to grow and distribute the product.
Those seven licensed farms--and they say it's almost the seed-to-table concept in the sense that those farms
are the--have to grow the product,but they also have to be the entities that dispense the product,and why
that is,I believe the State of Florida wants to eliminate third-party involvement within the process.
So right now there's only seven license holders that could open up a dispensary in any one of the
counties. They are going through the process to evaluate whether that same system is going to be
implemented for the wider range of the medical marijuana.
After the legislative session wraps up in April,the expectation is the laws that are passed are signed
by the governor sometime in July 1st.
When the legislative(sic)wraps up,we will take the lead,and we'll start interacting with the local
groups to start to develop the structure for how these land use regulations are to be provided.
We'll be back to the Planning Commission and the Board of County Commissioners sometime in the
fall to vet the proposed location criteria for how these--how they will move forward.
So in terms of business opportunity,it's simply a supply and demand,and I don't think because we
have adopted this moratorium that we will--that there will be a lack of interest from the business community
in terms of moving forward with these facilities,but we will make sure that we have an agreed upon set of
regulations that will appropriately locate where these businesses can provide their services.
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Mr.Chairman?
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Yes.
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Followup question.
Thanks,Mike. So just out of curiosity,are there any of those seven license holders/farms,are any of
those in Collier County?
MR.BOSI: None that I know of that are in the location of Collier County. I think--
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Just wondering.
MR.BOSI: And there was--there's a pretty strict regulation as to which farms would qualify.They
Page 18 of 26
April 6,2017
had the number of years in business,a number of different criteria. But as of now,there's a wide range
of--there's five bills right now that are circulating between the House and the Senate right now in the State of
Florida that have a wide range of dispergants(phonetic). So what eventually comes out will be the basis that
we will work from.
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Mr.Chairman?
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Yes,sir.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: The counties adjacent to ours,Miami-Dade and Broward,have
adopted ordinances already,as have some other counties in Florida. I assume that these ordinances contain
the kinds of restrictions that are referenced in the material that was handed out to us. And I guess then,
therefore,over this 12-month period,staff is going to be looking at those restrictions to determine whether
they would be right for us; is that--
MR.BOSI: Oh,most certainly. We not only will look to various counties that have adopted their
local restrictions and land use criteria,but we've also looked to some of the other states that have a head start,
sort of,on the issue and how they've dealt with the--in terms of their regulatory environments.
And there's a lot of information out there. So we are in the process of accumulating a number of
different data points and data sources,and we're going to base that as the beginning point of our discussion
after the State gives us the framework as to what we need to be working with.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Will we or staff be hearing from concerned citizens as those
restrictions evolve?
MR.BOSI: I would imagine when we--we will be—we'll have a public process with our Land
Development Code amendment team as to our outreach to the communities and asking them to participate
within the development of these land use restriction process,and then we will advertise when we bring this
back to the Planning Commission and the Board for their attendance to make them aware of their
opportunities for another--another stop to provide their input,especially to the Planning Commission and to
the boards.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I have something.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Stan?
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Two things. It's already been almost six months since this
was passed. It seems like another year is a bit excessive. I could think you could write an ordinance up in six
months. You know,by November it's been a year. To me that's plenty of time.
And the second thing is,your defmition of cannabis means all parts of any plant of the genus
cannabis whether growing or not. You know what that includes: Hemp;rope,sold by Lowe's and Home
Depot. They can no longer do that. There are car parts made of hemp. You can't have car dealers in Collier
County anymore. There's a whole bunch of stuff out there. I think--who's your expert on cannabis sativa?
MR.BOSI: Who is the expert?
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Who is your expert on cannabis sativa?
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Morgan&Morgan.
MR.BOSI: I don't believe that we have identified an expert on staff. We are trying to accumulate--
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Be careful who you--
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I'm a child of the'60s. I mean,I'm high school class of'64,
college was'68,and two years in the army,so I'm probably as much of an expert as any of you guys.
You really need to Google the word"hemp,"because that is cannabis sativa. It's just not as powerful
as--everybody here knows that. Your definition is just--overreach. Very good,thank you.
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Agreed.
MR.BOSI: Understood.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Why not use the definition that's in the state statute that was
provided as--define what's going to be eligible?
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Legal marijuana.
MR.BOSI: We--and I'll remind the Planning Commission that we haven't even started to develop
Page 19 of 26
April 6,2017
the regulations nor the definitions for what will be imposed within the Land Development Code. This is
simply a resolution that's going to put a stay on cannabis-dispensing facilities.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Somebody wrote that. Who wrote that? Somebody from
the Attorney's Office?
MS.ASHTON-CICKO: Wrote which part?
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Who was smoking something when they wrote this?
MS.ASHTON-CICKO: Are you talking about the ordinance?
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: The definition of cannabis. Who would have written that?
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I think the point is,Mike,whoever wrote it needs to tighten it up before it
goes back to the Board. I think that's going to be a part of what the Planning Commission is trying to get the
point--
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Excuse me. That was my point,yeah.
MR.BOSI: So noted,so noted. And we will most certainly reach out to Mr.Chrzanowski as we get
a little bit higher within the--
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Higher. I like that word. Higher,yeah.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Is there a motion to move this forward in some manner with or
without the clarifications requested by Stan?
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Make a motion.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Or the six months instead of a year. What do you guys think
about--
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Listen,I agree with a year. It's going to take a year to figure
out--get all--first the State has to develop the criteria. It's going to be strictly controlled by State. It's
licensed--all the way from the growing through dispensing will be subject to inspections and control in order
to preclude any type of elicit activity.
We won't even--you won't even get any of that till later this summer and late fall,and then it's going
to take time to develop the standards of where it can go within the county. I think a year is appropriate.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I once found a very healthy marijuana plant growing in the
median of Airport Road right at J&C Boulevard. It was about three feet tall and four feet wide,well
cultivated. They don't call it a weed for nothing.I mean,yeah,they're growing it in farms,but they're
growing it in houses and they're growing it everywhere,and you--
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Stan,there are areas in the county where it's growing.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I know. They've spotted by helicopter. It's got a pretty
color.
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Stan,I have a question for you. How big is that plant now?
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: That was 10 years ago. It's probably up in smoke by now.
Who knows.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Mr.Chairman?
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: We've got to bring this to a solution. Yes,sir.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: I assume that after all the ducks are put in order and the hearings are
held and the words are strung together that that 12-month period could be shortened.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Yes,it can be--whenever they finally adopt an ordinance,it will end at that
point,I would assume,so...
Diane?
COMMISSIONER EBERT: I did talk to Mike on this,to be honest with you,because it did concern
me. I was too busy working in the'60s. I didn't have time for that. But I did ask him if we would be hearing
from NCH,if we would be hearing from the Sheriffs Office. Those are the people I want to--would like to
hear from on this.
MR.BOSI: And as I had indicated,Ms.Ebert,you know,we will reach out,and we've already had
some communication with the NCH folks. They wanted to participate as we develop the regulations,so we
would most certainly be as inclusive as possible to all the interested groups as we're developing those
Page 20 of 26
April 6,2017
regulations.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Someone--I think we can wrap up this. Does someone want to
make a motion to whatever--
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: I make a motion that--with slight adjustment,to redefine or clearly
define the word"cannabis"so it clearly identifies what the intent is for dispensing,that that be adjusted and
then be forwarded to the Board with our recommendation for approval.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I'll second.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Seconded by Stan.Discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: All in favor,signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Aye.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Aye.
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Mike,that takes care of that one. Then that gets through our items
No.9.
***We'll go to Item No. 10,new business. You had added a request for a handout that you provided
concerning a requirement to have NIMs only heard during certain portions of the year.
MR.BOSI: Thank you,Chair. Mike Bosi again,Planning and Zoning Director.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: This is,by the way,a walk-on item. We won't have a formal vote. It
would be a straw vote.
MR.BOSI: On the March 28th hearing,as I indicated,when the Board of County Commissioners
adopted the regulations regarding the conversion of golf courses,they imposed a restriction upon that
process. If you remember,there was a stakeholders'outreach meeting that was associated with the golf
course conversion before they could move forward,and they placed some restrictions from November 1st to
April 31st as to when those stakeholder outreach meetings were allowed to be held.
During that discussion point,it was suggested that those restrictions of nonseasonal months be also
applicable to neighborhood information meetings. Later on during the hearing under 15 where it's general
discussion with the board members,they brought up the idea potentially of limiting the neighborhood
information meetings between the months June,July,and August.
Yesterday I was before the DSAC presenting the language that you'll see within the visualizer that
suggests that neighborhood informations can only be held between the months of September and May with
one--with an out or a waiver clause that the neighborhood information meeting could be held during the
summer months if the applicant can provide evidence that less than a third of the property owners in the
notification area are seasonal residents.
Now,that--there's some difficultly. We've kicked around some ideas as to how that might be able
to be deferred or determined,whether it be from a homesteading,different aspects to make those
determinations.
But what we're looking for is just an unofficial position of the Planning Commission as to whether
they believe limiting neighborhood information meetings from the non-summer months was a positive or a
negative idea.
DSAC provided a recommendation not to support the idea. Their concerns were we--business goes
on 12 months out of the year,and the entitlement process is already a lengthy process,and precluding three
months,a quarter of the year,from that only adds time--time to the process that already, in their perspective,
can be elongated.
So in that regard,we're looking for the Planning Commission to provide--and just an unofficial
Page 21 of 26
April 6,2017
position on the proposal.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Comments from the Planning Commissioners?
Diane.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Yes. I think our biggest complaint from the citizens of Collier County
is that some of these developers try and do things in the summer when they know most of the people are
gone. So I'm hearing them. That's one of their loudest complaints.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody else have any comments? Stan,then Joe.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Yeah. We could always take vacation when the Board takes
vacation.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Well,we—I mean,that's--I'm not sure that's part of the recommendation.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: No.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Oh,I know. It's just if you're worried about summertime
going on...
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Well,I think the object is find out we are worried about it,and I think
you're--are you worried about it?
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I'm here all year long. I don't—
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Well,that's what I think the question is. Is this something that we are
supporting in the sense,are we worried about it?And Diane expressed hers;you,Joe,and then Tom.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: You know,my years in the staff and,of course,now on the
Planning Commission,it never ceases to be a complaint on how long it takes to go through the process. And
if you were--and I know at one time I had a chart that kind of graphically showed the process between the
Planning Commission,the months,and then—or the NIM,then the Planning Commission,and then the
months it takes,and then the Board. It can take up to nine to 12 months to go through the rezoning process if
you start from developer's concept plan to actually getting a zoning approval. It takes a while.
This only will add to the time frame. And if we have--if we don't have a NIM during the summer
months,there's still opportunity for the public to engage if there's a NIM during the summer months,because
they can attend the Planning Commission,and then they can attend any follow-on meeting with the Board.
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Agreed.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: I don't support having a NIM during the summer,but I see no
reason to preclude it.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: That was my feelings on it.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Tom?
MR.EASTMAN: I agree with Joe 100 percent. I think that business needs to go on. Our
operations--I mean,what else do you want to stop? Do you want to stop Planning Commission meetings
and BCC meetings and school district meetings? I mean,a lot of decisions are made and the work of the
people,it has to continue during that time.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: You know,our county budget process takes place during the
summer and the budget hearings and other things,so...
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody else?
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Well--
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Diane?
COMMISSIONER EBERT: --Mark,I was not really saying that I was for this. I just said this is the
biggest complaint that the citizens have,especially if it is something that's very controversial. I think it's
those particular ones.And you are right,we work all year long so,to me,it's not necessary. But if it's going
to be real controversial,I did notice that the BCC is withholding something until next January or February,
so—
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: They have the prerogative to do that.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody else,Stan?
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: In an age of emails,I have,during the summertime,received
many emails from Ohio and whatever. These--if they have a problem,they communicate with their
neighbors;they let us know. And the NIM minutes are available. They can be sent out to anyone.You
Page 22 of 26
April 6,2017
know,the fact that you're not there to ask your specific question,you know,if you're that concerned,and you
know the NIM is coming up,you send the question to your neighbor and have him ask. I mean,you know,
this electronic age is just—the communication is mind blowing. I see no reason to stop any activity at all.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Anybody else?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Well,then,Mike,I've got a series of questions. This is--you presented this
in the format of an admin code. Does that mean you're not--and a short answer,please--not intending to
put it through as an LDC--any kind of LDC amendment?
MR.BOSI: No,just an administrative code change.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. And that is probably one of the failures of our admin code,because
had it gone through as LDC amendment,it would have been vetted differently.
Did you vet this to anybody beside DSAC?
MR.BOSI: No,sir.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: So the stakeholders in this county who are permanent residents here haven't
been part and parcel to this,that you know of?
MR.BOSI: They've had no real opportunity to provide any input on this.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. That's the first question.
Second question: A lot of people in this county have--who have permanent residences here have
places up north,North Carolina,South Carolina,Georgia,places like that. How many of those other
municipalities up north hold off their meetings until we go up there? Any of them that you know of?
MR.BOSI: I am not aware of any restrictions such as that,Mark.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Do you know of any other municipality in the state of Florida that does
this?
MR.BOSI: I'm not aware,no.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. Did you get an analysis of property rights issues involving this kind
of potential delay to people who wanted to come through for an action that they're--let's say they're
argumentatively entitled to from the County Attorney's Office?
MR.BOSI: Not at this time,no.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. And echoing Stan's comment,where does it end? Because if we're
going to hold up NIMs—and those aren't open as much to the public as a public meeting in front of either us
or the Board of County Commissioners,then we should look at shutting down government and laying our
people off six or eight months of the year.That might--or four months or whatever the time frame is.
I think the ramifications of this are more problematic than the research that has been done to produce
the language dictates. And so I think that until that other research is done,I would have to agree. I think it's a
jump before we've seen all the issues and researched it completely,and I would think that would be
dangerous to do. So that's my thoughts.
Anybody else have any comments?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Do you need any more input from us,or is that--
MR.BOSI: Well,the DSAC did provide an unofficial--they did a straw ballot,and it was
unanimous that they had suggested that they were not supporting the proposed change.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. And then does someone want to suggest that as a straw vote for this
board,or any motion for this board?
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: I'd make a motion that we not support this initiative--
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Second.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: --by vote. We will vote,and you can straw ballot.
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Second.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Joe Schmitt made,and by Patrick. All those--
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Second.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Well,Patrick made the second.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Third.
Page 23 of 26
April 6,2017
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Any other further discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: All in favor,signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Aye.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Aye.
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Motion carries 7-0.
Okay. Thank you. That gets us to the--no old business. I don't have any listed. Anybody have
anything? Joe?
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: I just have a comment,Mark,on your comments related to the
moratorium ordinance,and I think it would have been a very good idea had the Board sent to us for
comments some of the other issues involving land use for comment prior to their consideration,for instance,
the 41 initiative and some of the other things. So I would support the fact that if the Board wants our opinion
on it,I would welcome the opportunity to opine as a Planning Commission.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: That's a good idea. And I was just surprised we get one but none of the
others,and I couldn't figure out what the reasoning was. But,I mean,if it is because of the change in board,
that may be something we'll start seeing more of then. That would be great.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I have a request.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Go ahead.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Last time I brought up about this electronic thing that I get,
and I was told that they don't put it into separate folders because it comes across as a PDF.
I would like the first page of the PDF to be an index of the neighborhood information meeting,the
submittal packet,letters of objection,you know,maybe five--so I know what page I can go to to start that
section when Pm in the middle of a meeting here;otherwise,I've got to go through,you know,and make my
own index or something. You know what I mean?
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Well,I do,but all you need to do is annotate a page,and then through the
drop-down menu that picks out all your annotations,and go to that annotation,and you're done.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Correct.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Oh,sure. That's easy for you to say.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: You could do that--
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Sure. All you've got to do is annotate a page.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: PDF format,make comments,and find your comments.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Pm a Luddite,okay.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Or you could--
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I just want an index. I just want an index.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: She's trying to write everything down you're saying,so let's take it a little--
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Mr.Chairman?
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Yes,sir.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: I don't think it's quite that simple. Here's what I went through with my
very first thumb drive receipt. I found that much—many of PDF files were,indeed,OCR. So I could make
notes in there,and then I could--I put my initials in,for instance,the places,and then I can search for initials
and,boom,I come to the page that I'd like to ask a question or comment on.
So my suggestion is--and I'm sony to be adding time to--upon the shoulders--or suggesting the
doing of adding time to the shoulders of people who are so busy,but if you could do optical character
read-out on these things--for instance,that was not the case for the--whatever it was,375-page material we
Page 24 of 26
April 6,2017
had on the infill subdistrict. So I did it myself,which I can do and which I'll continue to do if no one else is
interested in this.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: But you're using an Apple,like I am.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Yes.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: And all you've got to do is go into preview,and you can drop down--you
do your markup box,and you can mark it up all you want. I've never had--I've never had that happen to me,
and I'm getting the same documents you are.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: But when you annotate with a--by putting a text box in an imagine
that hasn't been OCR'ed and then you search for it,unless I'm doing it correctly,it doesn't search the contents
of your text box.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: You don't search. You hit the inspector,and it gives you all your hits right
here,and you just click on the one you want to go to.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: And Adobe Reader will do the same thing in Microsoft.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Yes.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: You can do Abode Reader and do"paste"and put notes right on the
document as well.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Okay. I withdraw my request.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: No,I'm just—I'm trying to—
COMMISSIONER FRYER: No,it's a good--thank you.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: I don't withdraw mine. I want an index.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Because it does it so well. Stan's using a brick over there. I'm not sure if his
can do that.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: My boat it--it's my canoe anchor in--
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Well,I haven't seen one that thick for a while except for Joe's,but he's
government,so...
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Mine is an old one there.
COMMISSIONER FRYER: I'll figure it out.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: I'll be glad to show you real quick when we finish up. It works real well for
me,so...
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Maybe we can get the county to buy the Planning Commission
those nice Apples.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Joe,I actually tried that once,but the Planning Commission at the time
refused to go electronic,and I couldn't get anybody but myself to--
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Well,when Stan recommended it,I went,absolutely. And that
document would have been this(indicating)thick in that binder. Who got a binder this time? I mean--this
is absolutely great.
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Mr.Chairman?
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Yes.
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Motion to adjourn.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Oh,we're not quite there yet. We cannot officially do that yet.
Anybody else have any more old business?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Okay. I have to officially ask--and no one's in the room,but I have to ask,
is there any public comment? That's a requirement of the state to have that on our agenda. And nobody's
here,nobody's responding.
So now,Patrick made a motion to adjourn. Is there a second?
COMMISSIONER EBERT: I second.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: By Diane. All in favor,signify by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER CHRZANOWSKI: Aye.
Page 25 of 26
April 6,2017
COMMISSIONER FRYER: Aye.
COMMISSIONER EBERT: Aye.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HOMIAK: Aye.
COMMISSIONER SCHMITT: Aye.
COMMISSIONER DEARBORN: Aye.
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: Anybody opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN STRAIN: We're out of here,7-0.
*******
There being no further business for the good of the County,the meeting was adjourned by order of
the Chair at 10:22 a.m.
COLLIER COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION
ekkJA
MART STRAIN,C AIRMAN
ATTEST
DWIGHT E.BROCK,CLERK
These minutes approved by the Board on 5' f"(7 ,as presented v or as corrected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF
U.S.LEGAL SUPPORT,INC.,BY
TERRI LEWIS,COURT REPORTER AND NOTARY PUBLIC.
Page 26 of 26