BCC Minutes 03/19/2003 W (w/CRA & CRA Advisory Boards)March 19, 2003
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
COLLIER COUNTY COMMUNITY
REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
MARCH 19, 2003
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special districts as have been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:20 a.m. in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN:
Donna Fiala
Tom Henning
Jim Coletta
Fred Coyle
Frank Halas
ALSO PRESENT: Jim Mudd, County Administrator
Patrick White, Assistant County Attorney
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COLLIER COUNTY
COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY
AGENDA
March 19, 2003
9:00 a.m.
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON ANY AGENDA ITEM
MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO SPEAKING. SPEAKERS MUST REGISTER
WITH THE COUNTY MANAGER PRIOR TO THE PRESENTATION OF THE
AGENDA ITEM TO BE ADDRESSED.
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD
WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO,
AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD
OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE
TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
ALL REGISTERED PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL BE LIMITED TO FIVE (5)
MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY
ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING,
YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, TO THE PROVISION OF
CERTAIN ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY
FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT LOCATED AT 3301 EAST
TAMIAMI TRAIL, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112, (239) 774-8380; ASSISTED
LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN
THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' OFFICE.
1. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
2. ADOPTION OF AGENDA
e
BRIEF ADDRESS (5 MINUTES EACH) FROM EACH ADVISORY BOARD
CHAIRMAN - BILL NEAL, BAYSHORE/GATEWAY TRIANGLE LOCAL
DEVELOPMENT ADVISORY BOARD AND FRED N. THOMAS, JR.,
IMMOKALEE LOCAL REDEVELOPMENT ADVISORY BOARD.
March 19, 2003
4. GENERAL ITEMS FOR CONSIDERATION
Am
RECOMMENDATION THAT THE COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT
AGENCY HOLD ANNUAL OFFICER ELECTIONS AND ELECT A
NEW CHAIRMAN AND VICE CHAIRMAN.
BAYSHORE/GATEWAY TRIANGLE COMPONENT REDEVELOPMENT
AREA ITEMS
A. STAFF UPDATES AND REPORT
Be
RECOMMENDATION THAT THE COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT
AGENCY (CRA) BOARD REVIEW THE PROPOSAL RECEIVED FOR
THE GATEWAY "MINI-TRIANGLE" CATALYST REDEVELOPMENT
PROJECT AND RENDER A DECISION REGARDING THE PROPOSAL.
6. IMMOKALEE COMPONENT REDEVELOPMENT AREA ITEMS
A. STAFF UPDATES AND REPORT
Be
RECOMMENDATION THAT THE COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT
AGENCY (CRA) APPROVE THE ALLOCATION OF $200,000 FROM
FUND 186 TOWARDS UTILITY AND ROAD PROJECTS IN THE
IMMOKALEE REDEVELOPMENT DISTRICT.
Ce
RECOMMENDATION THAT THE COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT
AGENCY (CRA) REVIEW A PROPOSAL TO FUND UP TO $49,000
FROM REDEVELOPMENT FUND 186 TOWARDS AN ECONOMIC
INCENTIVE STUDY FOR THE IMMOKALEE AREA.
De
RECOMMENDATION THAT THE COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT
AGENCY (CRA) APPROVE AN ADDITIONAL $5,000 OF FUND 186
AS SEED MONEY TOWARDS THE SURVEYING, DESIGN AND
CONSTRUCTION OF 5TM STREET DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS IN
THE IMMOKALEE REDEVELOPMENT DISTRICT.
7. ADJOURN
INQUIRIES CONCERNING CHANGES TO THE CRA'S AGENDA SHOULD BE
MADE TO THE COUNTY MANAGER'S OFFICE AT 774-8383.
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March 19, 2003
March 19, 2003
CHAIRMAN FIALA: The meeting of the CRA board, please
come to order. And although we've said the pledge of allegiance
once, I think it's in order to say it again today. All rise, please.
(Pledge of allegiance was recited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, Tom, did you want to take over
from here?
Item #2
ADOPTION OF AGENDA- ADOPTED
MR. TOMERLIN: Good morning, Commissioners. We--
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Your name for the record, sir?
MR. TOMERLIN: My name, for the record, is Tom Tomerlin.
I'm a principal planner in the planning services department and
community development environmental services.
The first item on your agenda is basically the adoption of the
agenda.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve the agenda.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: All in favor?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Opposed, like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Item #3
BRIEF ADDRESS FROM EACH ADVISORY BOARD
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March 19, 2003
CHAIRMAN- RONNIE FOWL FOR BILL NEAL,
BAYSHORE/GATEWAY TRIANGLE LOCAL DEVELOPMENT
ADVISORY BOARD AND FRED N. THOMAS, JR.,
IMMOKALEE LOCAL REDEVELOPMENT ADVISORY BOARD
- PRESENTED
And now comments. Did you want to -- I don't know if you
wanted to handle this part of the board? Shall I just move it forward?
We're going to be talking about the brief addresses from Bill Neal
and I didn't know how you wanted --
MR. TOMERLIN: I think it might be more efficient if you just
saw it through up until the point where we have to elect a new
chairman.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
MR. TOMERLIN: Then we'll see what happens at that --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Very good. Then I would be happy to
do that. Okay, I guess we should have coordinated before we sat
down here.
Okay, we have a brief address, which is about five minutes,
from each advisory board chairman. Bill Neal, is he here?
Oh, Ronnie Fowl is going to be speaking for the
Bayshore/Gateway Triangle CRA Advisory Board.
MR. FOWL: My name is Ronald Fowl, with the CRA Advisory
Board.
This I had to pick up quick on. I wasn't asked to do it in the
beginning. Tommy just asked me.
The CRA has grown quite a bit since our infancy now. It's over
three years ago that it started, and believe it or not, we're up over
$800,000 in tip funds that we've accumulated.
We have an incentive program that was advertised in the
newspapers, and I believe there were about 35 responses from people
who inquired about applications. And it was the impact fees and for
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March 19, 2003
improvements in the area, whether it was painting, touch-up or
everything else. The improvement fees were up to $4,000. Out of
that so far we've only had two people who have come back with a
completed application, which we will start working on.
We had it advertised, there were a lot of people who responded,
but a lot of people who did not fill out the applications. Maybe we
were too lengthy with them, we're not sure. We'll try to tweak it so
we get more.
We issued a new RFP for an overlay for the district again.
There were two people that responded to it. It's a short list. This the
CRA will be paying for out of our funds, but we respectively want to
come back to you and submit it for future reconsideration of you
paying for the fund. We did this to fast-track it to make sure it wasn't
stalled, so we could keep moving on it.
We had a $50,000 matching grant that we did with the CDBG
for sidewalks on Linwood when the drainage was going to be put in.
This has been worked on with stormwater management for about
three years, and we got a kick in our teeth when the engineers come
back and said that it was only good for a three-year rain, it wasn't
good for a 1 O-year rain.
At the last meeting, I understand the county is looking again for
outfall pipes so we can hope to get this to move in. That would be
nice to have a sidewalk on that busy street, because it's about 3,000
feet long and an awful lot of traffic going through it.
In the CRA district, the Gulf Gate Shopping Center is doing a
lot of discussing about what they want to do.
(At which time, Commissioner Coletta enters the boardroom.)
MR. FOWL: Nothing specific or formal yet.
The comer property on the comer of Shadowlawn and 41, the
motel has been knocked down, and we understand that CVS or some
other company is actively pursuing that.
There's been a very active group within the triangle, led by
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March 19, 2003
Chuck Gunther, who's been trying to keep it clean. When you drive
through there, there's a lot of people just getting out, cleaning up
their swales and putting a little bit of effort back into the area.
The committee itself has recommended that the board accept
Dan Pioli and give him the developmental rights to the triangle. We
know that's your decision. We hope you consider it. And I know
there's two options that have been given to you. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Ronnie, before you leave, are there any
questions from the board members?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah, I have one, but I think the county
manager is going to have to get involved in this. Is he still here?
No? Maybe Joe Schmitt then.
In reference to the selection of the contractor, and I understand
you're going to be paying for it, but you would like to have us --
MR. FOWL: Resubmit.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- resubmit at some later date.
My question really is whether or not we get into any legal
trouble with respect to providing funding for an RFP that we -- I
presume you're talking about the board -- did not approve. Did we
actually get involved in approval of that selection?
MR. FOWL: Tommy?
MR. TOMERLIN: Yes.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: We did.
MR. TOMERLIN: The -- I think what Mr. Fowl is referring to
is the -- a study to basically install a new land development overlay.
Basically almost a stand-alone LDC for the Bayshore/Gateway
Triangle areas. And the CRA board did meet on September 30th of
last year and approved issuing an RFP and proceeding with that
project.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. But then the money is being
paid from what source?
MR. TOMERLIN: It was staff's understanding that that would
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March 19, 2003
be financed out of the tax increment funds gathered for this
redevelopment area.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
MR. TOMERLIN: And so --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And it is not now financed, or it's not
now being paid for from that source?
MR. FOWL: Not yet. We haven't awarded it to anyone yet.
MR. TOMERLIN: It has not been awarded yet. This -- The
CRA board will see a short list of-- it's a short list, but only two
firms submitted proposals. But there was a selection committee
formed, and a firm was selected, and the next step is to have the short
list approved by this board and then contract negotiations for the fee
amount could be negotiated at that point.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, so there really is only one source
of funding here.
MR. TOMERLIN: That's correct. It would be tax increment
funds accumulated since the year 2000 for this district.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, I guess I had gotten the
impression that somebody else was going to be paying for it initially
and then we were going to be reimbursing them later on, but that's -- MR. FOWL: It's our money going out, but we would like to
request to get it back.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
MR. FOWL: What you did with Naples Park and everything
else.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, I understand. Thank you very
much.
MR. FOWL: Any other questions? Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, I have a question,
Commissioner Fiala.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Certainly.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What did we do in Naples
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Park? We--
MR. FOWL: I think with -- what's the development?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Naples Park.
MR. FOWL: Up at the north end of town. I'm trying to think,
Camp -- it's not Camp Dressier, it's --
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Dover-Kohl?
MR. FOWL: Dover-Kohl. And I believe that the county did
pay for that, for the -- for that monies that were expended to
Dover-Kohl.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Plus some extras, didn't they?
MR. TOMERLIN: Yes, Dover-Kohl was contracted for the
Naples Park study, clearly outside of the jurisdiction of the CRA
district. But the Board of County Commissioners approved a
contract, I believe the dollar amount was around about $250,000.
MR. SCHMITT: 239, I believe it was.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Sir, just so I understand your
statement, you're saying the changes to this overlay, you would front
it, but you want the Board of Commissioners to reimburse you
through the general fund? MR. FOWL: Right.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: And didn't we also, with the Naples
Park, as we gave them the money to do it, didn't we advance them
some of the money that would have been going toward -- was it this
project or the U.S. 41 east corridor project?
MR. TOMERLIN: I think the project that it was put in
juxtaposition to at that point in time was actually Golden Gate and
Golden Gate City, more in particular. CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay.
MR. TOMERLIN: This -- the CRA districts are a little bit of a
unique beast, because they have their own financing source. The
assessed values are frozen in a base year since the year 2000, and
everything that -- as the assessed values appreciate, this is what goes
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March 19, 2003
into the coffers to expend on special projects.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you.
Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I know that there are -- a lot of
communities want to redevelop their community: Immokalee,
Golden Gate City, Naples Park. I understand your request. How
long is the advisory board going to allow the commissioners -- or
what's the request of payback? Five years, 10 years?
MR. FOWL: We haven't discussed that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
MR. FOWL: We haven't discussed that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. And I understand your
request, I really do, but there's a lot of wishes out there.
MR. FOWL: There's a lot of wish lists from up here.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes. Thank you.
MR. FOWL: Okay, thank you.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Commissioner Coyle?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, Commissioner Henning's
question clarified the issue. There really are two sources of funds
we're talking about here, which is what I originally thought we were
talking about, not just one. There's tax increment financing in the
CRA, and then there's talk about getting that replaced by
contributions from the Board of County Commissioners from the
general fund.
Now, that raises my original question all over again, that
although we also are the Board of County Commissioners, when we
act as a CRA board, we're not acting as part of the Board of County
Commissioners.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: That's right.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: So my question to you still is, the Board
of County Commissioners did not approve a contract, and if the
Board of County Commissioners did not approve a contract, then
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March 19, 2003
how do we transfer money out of the general fund to pay for this?
This is purely a technical legal issue. I'm not debating the subjective
nature of this thing. I just -- I am concerned that we might be creating
a legal issue here. Are we?
MR. WHITE: Assistant County Attorney Patrick White.
At this point factually there is no contract, per se. However, at
today's meeting this board could choose to make it necessary for any
contract that may be authorized by the CRA board to have that
affirmed by the Board of County Commissioners and I think resolve
that potential legal issue.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, I just wanted to make sure we
address that. Because it does sound to be a fairly complex process if
we don't do it that way.
MR. WHITE: You'll never hear our office be concerned about
the commissioners' recognizing the distinction between when they
act as the CRA board and the Board of County Commissioners. It's
always helpful to us when you make that distinction and recognize
which hat you're wearing.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Any other comments from the board
members? Thank you. Thank you, Ronnie, I appreciated your
presentation.
And now Fred Thomas, from the Immokalee local
redevelopment advisory board.
MR. THOMAS: Good morning, redevelopment board
members. I'm here to -- Fred Thomas, for the record, the chairman of
the Immokalee Advisory Board for the CRA.
What I first proudly tell you, that your board has been very
active out in Immokalee. We've pulled together for you input from
every organization that's represented in Immokalee, whether it's the
weed and seed, the environmental (phonetic) alliance, does not
matter. We've gotten information from all these various
organizations so that we can recommend to you the kinds of projects
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March 19, 2003
that would help develop Immokalee, okay?
You will see on your agenda later on today to be funded out of
our tax increment funding three projects: One project helps to
develop more middle income housing, we'll talk in more detail about
that a little later; the second project is -- and I need to stop a minute.
I need to say something else before I say that. I think your economic
development council and your staff did an outstanding job in the
workshop presentation they brought you on economic development
within Collier County. I think they did an excellent job, I was very
proud of what they said, and how they approached it. And they went
a long ways.
But in Immokalee, because of our distance from the glamour of
Naples, we need to look at some other issues. And we had partnered
with the Immokalee Community Development Corporation to put a
study together that we recommended you funding that would look at
not only economic incentives, residential incentives, and what are
some of the deterrents. Why did the Wal-Mart Distribution Center
go to Wachula instead of going to Immokalee, where it was closer to
the interstate? Those kinds of issues we need to have answered so as
we develop a package -- a tool kit for Immokalee, we'll at least look
at everything that the outside businesses are looking at when they
look into our community.
And lastly, you'll see an issue that was brought to us by our
weed and seed group that deals with safety issues and working with a
project that's existing out there in trying to speed up clearing up a
major safety problem. But we'll deal with those in detail later on.
But I'm letting you know that we have tried to serve to coalesce
all of the redevelopment concerns in Immokalee through this
committee from the various other committees that are looking at
various aspects of Immokalee. If you have any questions.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Any questions from the board members?
Commissioner Coletta?
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COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I think Commissioner Henning
was first.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, I'm sorry.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No, that's fine.
Mr. Thomas, I'm glad we're looking at-- or the advisory board
is taking a look at middle income housing. And if you really want to
pick up Immokalee, my opinion is, try to spur that middle income.
We've done tremendous with the lower income. I'm not sure if we
did it in the right steps. So thank you.
MR. TOMERLIN: Well, I can tell you here, we have a
representative -- no, we don't have a representative. I thought he was
there. But we've got a representative -- we have two organizations
right now; one that's represented here now that's going to be doing
some things in Immokalee to develop housing for our school
teachers, housing for our deputy sheriffs, things of that nature, okay?
We have jubilation (phonetic) that's coming out of the ground doing
tremendous. I mean, we're talking condos, zero lot line villas and
custom lots. I mean, these things are beginning to turn around. The
more of our middle class owners, working middle class that we have
in Immokalee, that live in Immokalee, the better the overall
development, services, less impact on roads, as I pointed out to you
before we would have. So any -- that's why we're looking at it, since
it's not only for economic residential incentives also.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Any other questions? Oh,
Commissioner Coletta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you. I just wanted to
also echo on what Fred Thomas said. It's been a community effort. I
sat in on some of the meetings and I was very impressed with the
community participation.
And I want to thank this board personally for all they have done
for Immokalee. Some of the economic incentives that are coming
forward are absolutely tremendous. I think that this projection --
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well, you're going to be getting into it and we'll get in more
discussion, and hopefully, Fred, you'll come back up to answer
questions. But when it comes to a Lesser study, we're seeing a new
avenue approach where we can see -- open up a new series of
toolboxes that we might be able to give consideration to when the
time comes.
But one of the things I did want to mention, there is a concern
over the amount of distance that you do have to travel from
Immokalee. I guess we're fortunate that we have the biggest county
in the State of Florida, but we're also unfortunate in the fact that
Immokalee is so far removed from Naples.
One of the things that will take place tomorrow at the planning
commission meeting, working with Mark Strane (phonetic), I see
where there's an enabling ordinance, part of the enabling document
for the planning commission that states that when the planning
commission's going to meet about Immokalee, items that concern
Immokalee, that we'll give due consideration to holding the planning
commission meetings in Immokalee. And they'll be coming up
tomorrow. And if any of you can make that, to come back and show
support for that, we might be able to start moving government a little
bit closer to Immokalee.
MR. THOMAS: I don't know why they changed that process. I
was on the planning commission for 11 years. When I was on it for
11 years, whenever there were a number, they tried to group the
Immokalee issues on one agenda, and we'd have that meeting in
Immokalee. I don't know what caused that to change, but we need to
get back to that kind of a package.
And also, Commissioner Coyle, all the money we're asking for
here is tax increment money.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Good, good. That's the way it ought to
be.
MR. THOMAS: No general fund, just tax increment money.
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March 19, 2003
And hopefully by doing these things, we'll increase the amount of
money coming into the general fund. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you, Fred Thomas, for
an excellent job.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Thank you very much.
Item #4A
ANNUAL OFFICER ELECTIONS AND ELECTION OF A NEW
CRA CHAIRMAN AND VICE CHAIRMAN- COMMISSIONER
COYLE ELECTED AS CHAIRMAN AND COMMISSIONER
HAIJAS EIJF, CTED AS VICE CHAIRMAN- APPROVED
Okay, now, we hold an election to elect a new chairman for the
CRA and a new vice chairman. Do I hear any motions?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: The vice chair is?
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I'm chair right now and Commissioner
Coyle is vice chair.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I make a motion to take Mr.
Coyle and move him up to the chair position and Commissioner
Halas for the vice chair.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: I'll second that.
Any comments? All those in favor? Opposed, like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You're on.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Congratulations.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thanks a lot. I'm going to delegate this
to the vice chair.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Would you like to sit in this seat?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: No, I'll sit here until later, if you don't
mind.
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March 19, 2003
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Not at all.
Item #5A
STAFF IIPDATES AND REPORT- PRESENTED
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, our next item on the agenda is
the Bayshore/Gateway Triangle component redevelopment area
items.
MR. TOMERLIN: Yes, 5(A) is staff updates and report. And
we basically have three updates we want to share with you. The first
one is something that was alluded to by advisory board member Ron
Fowl earlier, the land development overlay plan. That is in progress.
As I mentioned, on September 30th, the CRA board did
authorize that staff proceed with seeking proposals from planning
consultants to try to develop a set of land development standards that
would codify the whole host of things that an LDC typically does
with-- in terms of having land development go through.
The -- we have gotten two proposals back. There was a selection
committee formed, basically by the advisory board, and they are
recommending a short list of consultants that will be coming to you
at a subsequent date, hopefully sometime in April, for you to approve
that short list, and then negotiations for the fee amount could occur at
that point.
I think it's worth noting at this point that really, this has been
approached procedurally from the point of view that tax increment
funds are the main source of revenue. And that was an excellent line
of questioning that Chairman Coyle had about if we do indeed go
back to trying to request this reimbursed out of general funds, then
we need to reexplore that, but--
And the next two items --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I'm sorry, there's a question by
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March 19, 2003
Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I have 5(B). I don't see 5(A) in
my agenda packet. And the pages are numbered on the lower
right-hand side --
MR. TOMERLIN: I apologize, there's not an actual executive
summary form for them. These are meant to be extremely informal,
letting you know what is in progress, but not at any point where a
decision needs to be made.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Oh, I like those items.
Okay, thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, I would just like to add, I
appreciate your update. One of the things that we recognize -- I visit
the advisory board a lot, and it was brought to our attention probably
two years into the process, that even though they had an overlay and
they thought they were moving forward, the reason we weren't going
anyplace was we never had a plan. We never had a plan in place.
Peter Van Arsdale brought that to our attention, actually.
And we had to step back a minute, take a look and realize the
reason our wheels kept spinning was we had no plan to follow. So
this is now being put in place.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any other questions?
I have one question. When do we expect the land development
overlay to be completed for the mini-triangle?
MR. TOMERLIN: We expect that sometime in April you will
approve the short list. Our purchasing department will begin
negotiating the contract price. And given the LDC cycle expanding
at least six months, we're talking about something that -- I don't see
how it could be conceivable it could be done until calendar year
2004, in terms of being on the books. The process is certainly -- the
wheels are spinning with respect to it. But actually having it on the
books sometime calendar year --
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March 19, 2003
COMMISSIONER FIALA: We had a lot of people even
applying -- even had trouble getting people applying for this, didn't
we?
MR. TOMERLIN: There was -- I think there was in excess of
80 notices sent out to various planning firms throughout the state,
and response was fairly lukewarm. I think the read we're getting is
that these places are rather over-worked and they just might not have
the resources to devote to a project of this scope at this point in time.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any other questions?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, proceed.
MR. BLAIR: For the record, Aaron Blair, planning services.
I'm going to update. We -- Ron updated about our grant program
that's in the Bayshore area, which is the site improvement grant,
impact fee assistant grant. So I don't think I need to go in greater
detail. But those besides -- that we did, the two applicants, and
they're in the review process right now and will be coming back to
the board for approval of these grants for those people to fix up their
properties.
The other update would be the Bayshore Drive mixed use
zoning overlay Phase II, which also at our last meeting the board told
us to go ahead and proceed with the Phase II of our current zoning
overlay, which is on Bayshore Drive, and that is going through the
LDC amendment process right now as we speak.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And this is independent of the land
development overlay that we're talking about --
MR. BLAIR: Correct.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- here?
MR. BLAIR: This one's already in place on Bayshore. We're
just expanding.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Any questions?
(No response.)
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March 19, 2003
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, who's next?
MR. TOMERLIN: The next item is 5(B). Before we get to that,
I just -- I think it's worth noting that as Commissioner Henning
pointed out, there was no executive summaries. These are just
updates that -- there's no need for a decision at this point, so I didn't
want anyone to get confused about the lack of executive summaries,
because there's -- it's at a preliminary stage. But we want to provide
you with kind of an update on how things are progressing with
respect to these.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I understood. Did you?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I got it.
Item #5B
REVIEW OF THE PROPOSAL AND DECISION FOR THE
GATEWAY "MINI-TRIANGLE" CATALYST
REDEVELOPMENT PROJECT- PLANNING SERVICES
RECOMMENDATION #2 APPROVED
MR. TOMERLIN: The next item is 5(B), it's revisiting the
mini-triangle catalyst project. And the way we were going to
approach this this morning was that I'm not going to spend probably
more than one minute just giving you a background on how we got
here today. Then I want to hand over the reins to Dan Pioli, who is
the petitioner and the single response that we got to this request for
proposals.
As you know, this is the second go-around that the CRA
Bayshore/Gateway Triangle local CRA has had with this particular
project. Back in (sic) April 30th of 2002, there was a lengthy
discussion with the CRA board about what to do with the
mini-triangle project after the advisory board decided to bring it back
to the forefront of attention, because they felt there was a lack of
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March 19, 2003
activity within that area.
At that meeting date, the commissioners -- the CRA board
members decided at that point to go forth and issue a request for
proposals to redevelop the mini-triangle, but it was made very clear
by this board that one of the products that could come from this type
of RFP would be zoning standards and property owner initiated type
products. And so I think that was kind of the tendency that staff felt
the board was leaning towards saying well, let's do this in an RFP
context, but we sure want the RFP to have an umbrella big enough to
include property owners' submitted projects.
And basically this is the result of that go-ahead on April 30th.
It's almost a year later, but the reason it was drug out a little bit
further than usual is because the board agreed to issue an intent first,
because there's recognition that there may be a flaw here in just
having 30 days someone come up with a defensible proposal to
develop such a large project. So there was a 90-day research period
installed into the whole process. We tried to have the development
community do their homework, or property owners do their
homework to submit something in response to this.
We're here today to listen to the single proposers. So what that
means is that the property owners did not submit something in
response to this RFP. And with that, I'll handle any--
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Henning has a question.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Tomerlin, the executive
summary was written by staff?. MR. TOMERLIN: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: At a certain point during --
after the presentation by Mr. Pioli, I do have some questions on that,
so we'll hope you provide the opportunity for me to do that.
MR. TOMERLIN: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
MR. TOMERLIN: So at this point, if there's no further
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March 19, 2003
questions, I'll just mm the reins over to Dan to let him share this
project.
MR. PIOLI: Thank you, Tom. Good morning, Commissioners.
I'd like to first thank you for the opportunity to be here today.
We've put a lot of time and energy and work into this, both at the
staff level and at the private level, as well as various meetings with
each of you. So hopefully today is the culmination of a lot of work
by all of us that will take us in a very positive direction for East
Naples.
I see Kady's already switched us over to the monitor, so if I
could direct your attention to that screen in front of you. My name,
for the record, is Daniel Pioli, my company is FP Real Estate
Investments, LC.
And I'm here today on behalf of the Bayshore/Gateway Triangle
Redevelopment District and Collier County government responding
to an RFP for the mini-triangle project.
Community redevelopment is a public/private partnership, as
you know, whose objectives are to achieve urban renewal, create a
landmark gateway in a mini-triangle, in this particular instance, and
catalyze further redevelopment.
This particular project is proposed to be a mixed use
redevelopment plan that would include retail, residential, hotel and
office uses as part of the plan. There are five key elements that need
to be noted with respect to redeveloping the mini-triangle. They are
land acquisition costs.
As you know, there are a number of existing operating
businesses within the mini-triangle, all of which either have to be
compensated for the liquidation of those businesses or relocated.
When you have that element that becomes a part of the cost
associated with acquiring the property, that raises the cost of the
property pretty significantly.
Additionally, having tagged this property for redevelopment,
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March 19, 2003
that also creates the impression that the property should and would
be worth more. So we have a very, very high land acquisition cost as
an element of this.
There are some transportation management improvements that
are going to be needed in order to properly service this particular
project, as well as the surrounding commercial and residential areas
as well.
There's anticipated to be a pretty considerable -- considerably
high level of environmental contamination, both in the soil and
groundwater that will have to be addressed most likely by
remediating or excavating the site.
Additionally, as many of you know, there used to be a lake in
the middle of the property that I understand was previously there for
stormwater management, which has since been built in with road and
bridge construction debris from the Gordon River. And likely that is
not suitable for development and at the very least would have to be
excavated as well.
Stormwater management is a problem that's plagued that area
for many, many years. When it rains heavily, basically the streets
and the businesses are closed and the residences are infringed upon
by this sheet flow that accumulates across Commercial Drive back
through the industrial area into the residential neighborhoods, and
eventually releases across Davis and into the canal and out into the
river. This is a problem that everyone knows about.
I have proposed and given the county the opportunity, as the
public participant in this project, to use the excavation for
environmental repair as an opportunity to install an underground
storm or a vault system that could resolve at least substantially, if not
entirely, this problem for the area.
When you have this many costs that are involved with simply
acquiring and preparing a site for redevelopment, obviously you have
-- you have to achieve a certain density. We've discussed that.
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March 19, 2003
That's been something that's been a known issue for some time.
In order to achieve that density level, how are you going to park
as many cars as you need to park in order to service all of those uses?
So parking becomes an issue that we have decided that will have to
be structured within the buildings. No parking garages, very few if
any cars parked on the ground. There may be some interior parking
around the core area of the development and there may be some
perimeter parking, particularly along Commercial Drive for street
level businesses, but the parking will principally be within the
structures, and they will access that through an internal street
environment that would get the cars off of the main roads and into
the facilities where they can meet the parking.
What must happen for mini-triangle redevelopment to occur?
Predevelopment, the county must first award the development rights.
That's why we're here today. We must then negotiate a developer
agreement -- and forgive me, that's a little bit far away, my eyesight's
not that good.
The CRA, your body -- which I cannot do, you as a CRA have
to do, must apply for grant monies that are administered by the state,
federal grant monies that are administered by the state, and available
to do a Phase I and a Phase II site assessment so that we can
determine exactly what the level of contamination is in this site and
determine then through an engineer's report exactly what has to be
done to remediate the site. That will enable us to establish the costs
associated with that remediation.
We need to complete certain transportation system
improvements, I believe that's what that says, and that involves the
four-laning of Commercial from Davis down to 41. That four-laning
will be essential, not only because of the traffic impact created by
this project, but there will continue to be businesses operating east of
Commercial Drive, plus all of the residences south of 41 are having
to use that as a means by which to access their neighborhoods, since
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March 19, 2003
they lost that left-mm lane from Davis onto Sandpiper.
I can tell you that as I mentioned last year, that the Florida
Department of Transportation has issued a letter of support for the
signalization of this intersection. I think everybody's preference
would be that it be realigned. I don't know that we're going to be
able to achieve that, but at the very least it needs to be signalized.
And there will need to be some median modifications that have to
occur as well.
Again, just a little bit out of my view. Okay, I've asked the
county to establish -- oh, there we go -- a fast-track review process. I
have begun to attend the EDC and staff meetings that are designed
specifically for this purpose, and it clearly appears that they're on the
right track. I think, though, what this particular project is going to
need, though, is to have certain staff members, preferably department
heads or senior planning people, assigned to this project so that --
who have a dedicated team, particularly reviewing this plan and this
SDP.
Where this becomes extremely important is that in order for the
development entity to go out and negotiate contracts with the
property owners, we're going to have to negotiate a time specific
contract in order to achieve plan review and approval within the base
period, or maybe one or two extension periods of that contract.
We've got to know that there's a fast-track review set up. It's going
to take quite a bit of time for us to work through all of the
predevelopment planning stages that are involved with this. And
once we get into the process of formally planning the project, we
need to know that when we come out of that, we're able to expedite
the review and approval process.
And lastly, prior to development, probably, although I don't
know the legal issue that has to be addressed here, but either as a
CRA or as a Board of County Commissioners, you'll have to agree to
make case-by-case zoning review considerations for any businesses
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March 19, 2003
that choose to relocate out of there. And that some properties today
might presently be grandfathered under a C-5 that's in there, but we
don't have a C-5 site available for them where there are compatible
use. And in order to accommodate the transfer of all of their
presently vested rights, we need to ensure that those rights are
portable through making the zoning enhancements that are necessary,
if we're able to find a site for them to relocate to.
At or by the start of development, I'm asking you to grant the
impact fee waivers -- or credits, rather -- for all existing uses within
the redevelopment area, within the mini-triangle area. I've had
meetings with staff, we've discussed this, we're putting numbers
together, we're specifically identifying exactly what these will be.
But you have existing uses in there, impervious site areas and
water and sewer meters, all of which have already impacted the area.
And it's usual and customary when you have redevelopment to credit
those existing uses against the impact fee bill for the proposed
project.
I'm then asking you to grant a deferral for up to 10 years for the
remaining impact fee balance. Now there again, that raises another
legal issue. I don't know if you're presently legally entitled to grant
deferrals for up to 10 years. I know you've done six and seven years.
Mr. Tomerlin has referenced in his executive summary that there
may be comp. plan amendments necessary to set the stage for some
of these particular issues.
I'm also asking you to waive miscellaneous fees, such as permit
application fees, review fees, inspection fees, things like this that add
up to several hundred thousand dollars. And these are the kinds of
administrative contributions that you can make that create an
economic incentive for this project to be successful.
I'm also asking you to fund a $3 million advance against the tax
increment financing. And these essentially are bonds that would be
issued by the CRA at some future date. And your advisory board has
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March 19, 2003
agreed to allow the proceeds of those funds, when the bonds are
issued, to repay the county's general fund for that $3 million advance.
I'm not asking for any more money than what would be produced in
the form of bond proceeds by just the mini-triangle. I'm not asking
for funds that would come from tax increment revenue from any
other redevelopment activity within the district.
I'm asking you, if you agree to install the underground
stormwater vaults, that must be initiated at or by the start of
development, as well as the acquisition of any necessary easements,
if staff determines that a dedicated outfall line is necessary.
And lastly, we need to begin construction of the transportation
improvements. Post-development, I'm asking you to abate real estate
taxes. There again, that might be another legal issue that has to be
addressed at some future date.
Why redevelopment in a mini-triangle? Well, first and foremost,
community support. Your own local redevelopment advisory board
has endorsed this project. The East Naples Civic Association has
issued a letter of support for this project. The Royal Harbor
Homeowners Association, the Oyster Bay Homeowners Association,
the Brookside Homeowners Association, all have issued letters of
support. These are all the neighborhoods who are most directly
impacted by this development, and their support has been on record
for some time, all of which are in the form of letters that have been
provided to each of you.
Secondly, well, jobs. 2,500 estimated during construction and
2,000 permanent jobs. That's quite a significant amount ofjob
creation.
Impact fees. After the credits for the existing uses of the
deferral, estimated at roughly $3 million to the county.
Ad valorem tax revenue. Presently those properties are only
producing about $72,000 in total revenue, and that was the amount
that was the frozen rate, with anything that's resulted in an increase is
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March 19, 2003
going into the TIF account now.
But I anticipate that this project's going to generate about a
million and a half dollars of revenue. That's a pretty significant
return on your investment.
Additionally, purple properties in the area will also rise in
property value, which are going to produce additional funds to the
county.
Other tax revenue would include sales tax and bed tax on an
annual basis.
Just to review the project capitalization for you; the county
contributions I'm asking for are TIF advance; the impact fee credits
and deferrals; capital project costs participation; I'm asking you to
apply for the EPA grants; I'm asking you to waive permit and other
fees, other county fees; and I'm asking you to abate the real estate
taxes.
These are a package of incentives that will go a very, very long
way toward ensuring the success of the project.
The mini-triangle redevelopment is a unique opportunity, there's
nothing else like it in the county, to lay the foundation for the future,
meet the needs of a growing population and prepare for the day that
the growth turns around and comes back down 41.
Having concluded that presentation, I'd like Aaron to put in
front of you a summary of some very brief comments that I've
prepared in response to staffs executive summary. I'd like to go
through those really very quickly with you, because I think they're
important as you review and discuss this matter today.
I'll start quickly with Item No. 1. Under the consideration
section on Page 2 of the executive summary, paragraph two, I offer
the following corrections: Among the items being requested, not
only is the deferral of impact fees requested, but also a credit for all
existing uses and meters that have already impacted the site area.
Further in that paragraph, and in reference to the $3 million
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March 19, 2003
advance, these funds are contemplated to come from the county's
general funds and later repaid with proceeds of the TIF, as I
described just a moment ago.
Regarding Item 2.b in staff's ES, it is not feasible or practical to
achieve redevelopment in the mini-triangle with the zoning overlay.
Due to irregular lot sizes and shapes, the inadequate transportation
management at the Davis/Commercial intersection, the history of
severe stormwater management problems, and the anticipated levels
of soil and groundwater contamination, the properties within the
mini-triangle cannot and will not be redeveloped individually.
Solutions to these impediments to redevelopment can only be best
achieved by unification of those properties.
Within the final paragraph of the options section of the ES, staff
recommends that the petitioner obtain a property interest before
entering into negotiations of a developer agreement. I need the full
commitment of your agency to begin negotiating contracts with the
property owners. They're standing in abeyance waiting for you to
make a decision.
I continue to hold the contract -- I'm sorry, anything less than
that will not sufficiently persuade them to negotiate. If you make a
formal award today, modified only by the provision that certain
investigative reports be acquired, then there should be sufficient
evidence of your commitment to move forward with this
redevelopment process. I have discussed the investigative reports
further in Section 5 below.
Under planning service recommendations on Page 3 of the ES,
recommendation No. 1, staff recommends entering into negotiations
after the petitioner obtains a property interest. I continue to hold a
contract for the purchase of a property within the mini-triangle,
thereby establishing a property interest. Actually, this negotiation
should be entered into before the petitioner obtains a property interest
for the very same reasons as defined in Section 1 above. Further, the
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March 19, 2003
time-line for the entire predevelopment process will be so lengthy
that contracts entered into with property owners at that point in the
process would expire prior to plan approval.
And then lastly, No. 5, under the same section as referenced in
No. 4 above, staff suggests that various investigative reports be
obtained in conjunction with a predevelopment agreement. They cite
a market study as chief among them. It is impractical to obtain a
market study at this stage of the process.
We will be undertaking a considerable planning process at a
later date that will more accurately and completely define the mix of
uses and the total densities currently proposed.
What has been proposed has been well thought out, but has been
through -- has not been through the planning process. This normally
and typically comes at a later stage in the process. Once We
complete the planning process and we have a more refined plan for
redevelopment, we can then obtain a market study that corresponds
to the plan. Any plan obtained prior to this would be ineffective and
rendered useless by changes to what is proposed today and would
have to be redone at additional cost. The very same concern applies
to a traffic impact study.
I therefore request that these studies be deferred to an
appropriate point in the planning process and will agree that they be
required as a condition of the final developer agreement.
Further, staff recommends a thorough assessment of the site
with respect to soil and groundwater contamination.
The proposal before you today asks for you, the CRA, to apply
for grant monies to pay for these reports. I respectfully request that
you make such applications as necessary to obtain the funds available
to pay for and then undertake the Phase I and Phase II environmental
site assessments.
The developer will assume responsibility for the cost of a
market study and a traffic impact study if done at the appropriate
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March 19, 2003
stage of the development and planning process.
The developer will assume responsibility for the cost of having
engineers determine the costs associated with making transportation
improvements, stormwater management improvements and
environmental remediation of the site area, precedent to entering into
a formal developer agreement negotiations, if done so under the
format described herein.
And with that, I conclude my comments and welcome your
questions.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENN1NG: There's a lot of unknowns here
that I think the board should get some answers before proceeding
with this. Is one, we don't know if this is going to be a DRI, PUD,
we don't know the traffic impacts, we don't know the environmental
stuff, we don't know what it's going to cost the taxpayers. And there's
just so many questions. And I'm concerned about proceeding with
that until we get the questions.
But in the executive summary, fiscal impact, I'm seeing see
attached. I'm trying to find the attachment so I could find out what
the --
MR. TOMERLIN: Yes, the attachment looks like this. It's a
table with three columns.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What page?
MR. TOMERLIN: Page 9.
It's a very simplistic approach, because we -- quite frankly, I
don't think we have our hands around what the true fiscal impacts
would be.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And -- correct. And that's my
concern.
Let me look at that table and then I'll have some more questions.
MR. PIOLI: Commissioner, if I may just respond very quickly.
I know staff has reviewed the proposal and I've had an engineer
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March 19, 2003
review it with respect to a PUD or a DRI, and it is not presently
calculated to be a DRI. It will be a PUD, though, so that will be a
rezoning matter that comes before the BCC.
As far as determining --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Pioli, can I stop you there.
You said not presently.
MR. PIOLI: Right, it will not be a DRI. We do not have any
intention whatsoever of taking this outside of your jurisdiction.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. So you're removing that
word presently and just saying -- it will not be --
MR. PIOLI: Correct. I misspoke.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- a DRI. Thanks.
MR. PIOLI: If I may, though, quickly, just to finish your
comments.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'm sorry.
MR. PIOLI: The unknowns that you referred to, what we have
come to an agreement on, both with the staff level, as well as my
team, is that we do need to go through this pre-developer agreement
period to complete these investigations. We would come out of that
stage of the predevelopment process with definition of the costs that
would be incurred for this redevelopment to happen.
Now, what costs we will then come to the county with and say
these are the numbers that we have estimated as the costs for the
county's contribution, and those numbers would then become part of
the negotiating process for the developer agreement. So we have
actually established a preliminary phase here in this project where we
would answer the questions such as these unknowns you're referring
to.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes, how many jobs did you say
that this was going to generate? And can you tell me exactly about
what this pay scale would be for these jobs?
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March 19, 2003
MR. PIOLI: Well, the estimated number of jobs during
construction is 2,500, and the estimated permanent jobs --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: That's what I'm interested in.
MR. PIOLI: -- is 2,000.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And what do you estimate the--
MR. PIOLI: I estimate the pay scale for the office product to be
that of a professional standard, probably somewhere between 30 and
60,000, somewhere in that area. I estimate that the retail jobs will be
typical normal retail jobs that would pay anywhere from minimum
wage on up, depending on the level of management and skill and
expertise.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And what do you expect the hotel
-- and how many beds were you going to have in the hotel, 200 beds?
MR. PIOLI: We're anticipating 200 rooms --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Rooms? Okay.
MR. PIOLI: -- in the hotel. And there again, that will be
operated by a proven existing hotel operator under a flag
arrangement with the corporate entity. One of my primary objectives
in a hotel is that I don't want a franchisee coming in and then later
having financial problems and not being able to stand behind the
hotel. I want the corporate flag on the product; that gives us the
assurance that the company is going to stand behind keeping those
doors open.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: So what you want us to do is
basically build this hotel for this person?
MR. PIOLI: No, no, I'm not asking you to do that. That
developer will do that, as part of the overall development process.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay, with the $3 million upfront
money, are we going to get a return on our money as far as interest, if
we decide to --
MR. PIOLI: Well, one of the things that I anticipated
negotiating with the county as part of the developer agreement was
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March 19, 2003
securing that money with some sort of a position behind the
financing provided for the development of the project.
Now, that could accrue interest for you, that's entirely likely, but
your ultimate repayment will either come from the issuance of the
tax increment funds or the sale of the property. So you have two
forms of security there for repayment. And if I need to factor in
securing that $3 million with a lien position on the property behind
my primary financing, that's obviously something I have to be able to
negotiate with my lenders, but would presume, given that this is
public redevelopment, that I will be able to achieve that.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And what do you -- and what are
you proposing to do about the properties that may not be willing to
sell to you? Are we going to get involved in eminent domain there?
MR. PIOLI: Well, we don't know that yet, because we haven't
been put in a position of having to go out and negotiate contracts. I
can tell you that I expect there to be some difficult negotiations, I
expect there to be some property owners who are initially anyway
going to express an unwillingness to sell their property.
I believe, though, that given the right price, the right terms and
conditions, that the property can be acquired. I can tell you that
there's one corporate entity in there, though, that has made it very
clear to me that they're just not -- their policy is just not typically to
relocate stores and that it will require at the very least the county
issuing a letter establishing the threat of doing an order of taking so
that the process of eminent domain is at least initiated to get them to
the table to have these discussions.
Now, whether or not they'll continue to hold that position, I can't
tell you, because we haven't actually gotten into contract
negotiations.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Are you going to take on that
responsibility and not have the county involved in this?
MR. PIOLI: I can't assure you that I won't have to come back to
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March 19, 2003
the county and ask you to apply your powers of eminent domain to
do that. That's part of the whole process. And I can tell you that if
it's necessary, because some particular property owner won't sell
under any -- for any price, that under those circumstances I would
have to come back to you, yes.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: So basically you want us to
basically give you upfront money of $3 million, waive all the impact
fees, waive all the other fees involved in this whole project.
MR. PIOLI: I'm not asking to waive the impact fees, I'm asking
for credits for existing uses, water and sewer meters, and then a
deferral for the balance. And what I would do with my project
proceeds is to acquire zero coupon treasury bonds that would be
placed in an escrow account for payment to the county when those
bonds mature at the end of the deferral period. So you're assured of
having been paid those funds when those bonds matured. And the
advance is being repaid to you either through the sale of the property
or the issuance of the tax increment funds.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Couple questions, if I may.
The -- if the owners protest, and I assume that they will, and we get
into a lengthy court battle, who covers the cost of the court battle?
MR. PIOLI: Well, as I understand the situation, it's the
developer's responsibility to cover the legal costs. I also understand
that if a particular litigation goes as far as a jury trial, that if a jury
awards that property owner anything less than what he's been
offered, that he then becomes responsible for all legal expenses. So
the county is not being put in a position of having to pay for legal
when we get into the eminent domain process.
Now, I can tell you that there have been a couple of sales within
the mini-triangle recently, and those are actually a very good thing,
because they establish a market rate for the value of the properties
within the mini-triangle.
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March 19, 2003
With that, and having offered each of these property owners'
prices substantially in excess of that market rate, their incentives
should be in place to negotiate, knowing that a jury likely would not
award them anything more than a market rate price.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: And the second part of my
question, and this will be the last part, is the money that we're talking
about taking out of the general fund, I know that we're going to be
going into a very, very tight year. Is there any way possibly that there
might be some sort of special bond that we could get where we
actually can keep the money in place and there would only be an
interest to pay into that point in time that, you know, you would be
ready to repay it? Is there some way that could be done?
MR. PIOLI: There may be. I know with other redevelopment
projects throughout the state they've used, they pledged utility
revenue and the likes for collateral to the issuance of bonds for
specific projects. So I would anticipate there might be other options
we could explore as an alternative --
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Because I'm getting--
MR. PIOLI: -- that have not been explored to date, though.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I'm getting a little bit hung up
with the amount of money that we would have to tie up from the
general fund into this with a payback sometime in the future. We're
going into a very tight year.
MR. PIOLI: Well, this could become something that we could
address and identify during our preliminary investigative period.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, one of the other things I
wanted to ask was with the TIF funds, now, you had asked to, what,
for 10 years bond those things out. Does that mean then that the TIF
funds that accumulate over those 10 years cannot be used for any
other purposes within the triangle? For instance, stormwater
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March 19, 2003
management or-- I know we have a tremendous flooding problem in
the area. And will they not then be used for anything else over that
1 O-year period?
MR. PIOLI: Well, from my understanding, and I'll defer this to
Tom in a second here, once you reach a point, whereas the CRA you
decide to issue the bonds that will be secured by the pledge of the tax
increment funds, you're going to establish -- you're going to have
established a seasoned history of that tax increment. And that
seasoned history will be the revenue that you pledge as collateral for
repayment of those bonds.
Now, once you have established that point in time from there
forward, if other funds accumulate in the TIF account -- I'll defer to
Tom as to whether or not he would know you'd be able to access
those funds for other purposes. But what that TIF revenue will do for
you is it's going to create a substantial, millions and millions of
dollars, a substantial amount of money that you would then be able to
use. These are your bond proceeds. You will then have those
proceeds to go out and do the very projects that you're
contemplating. It's going to generate a substantial amount of money
for the CRA to then use throughout the redevelopment district for
any kind of municipal improvement that is appropriate for these
kinds of funds.
MR. TOMERLIN: Yeah, if I just might add, I'm certainly not a
bonding expert, but you would incur significant debt service burden
with this. And whether or not the area has shown very good promise
with how assessed values appreciate through the short history we
have, and you certainly expect it to do that, but a significant portion
of the revenue stream that comes from property taxes would have to
be diverted to this debt service burden. Whether or not it would put a
severe damper on other redevelopment efforts throughout other areas,
we can't say at this point. It's my feeling that no -- the debt service
burden wouldn't be so overwhelming that it would prevent other
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things from occurring with those tax increment funds, but it's a valid
question and quite frankly I don't have the expertise to give you a
solid answer on that.
But nonetheless, you would incur a debt service burden.
MR. PIOLI: And that debt service comes in the form of the tax
increment monies, the annual revenues going into the tax increment
account. That is your debt service.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Just so the public understands where we
are, we have six public --
MS. FILSON: Seven.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- seven public speakers who will be
speaking on this issue. Right now we are obtaining answers from the
petitioner and we will not engage in any debate among the
commissioners until such time as we have heard the public speakers.
But there are a number of questions that I think are relevant to
address to you, Mr. Pioli.
If we accept this proposal -- we, that is the county -- is
obligated, under this proposal, to do all the things that are being
suggested. I need to understand how the land development overlay
we're currently involved with, that will not be completed for perhaps
another year, will affect your design concept.
MR. PIOLI: Actually, I've been rather adamant with staff and
the advisory board about the importance of my development team
being part of the process of crafting and creating that overlay. And
the reason is because we can establish certain integration between the
mini-triangle and the rest of the redevelopment district so that there
is a sense of continuity throughout the entire redevelopment district.
So I've been rather adamant on that point, that we should and need
and want to be involved and are prepared to be involved in that
process.
Now, the mini-triangle itself does, and I can't be any more
emphatic about this, does need to be treated differently or outside of
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March 19, 2003
an overlay. And the reasons for that are numerous. One, the
contamination that needs to be remediated within the site; two, the
transportation issues that need to be resolved; three, the stormwater
solutions that are necessary for that area; four, you have a collection
of irregularly shaped and inconsistent lot sizes that are such that
individually they simply can't be redeveloped. There is literally not
much if at all that can be done with many of these sites.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: We are currently involved in
consideration of land development code changes on the county
commission concerning things like densities and heights. Your
architectural rendering here seems to indicate a building that is at
least eight, perhaps 10 stories high, eight stories high, with a spire on
the top. What happens if we decide that that height is not
acceptable? How do we deal with that?
MR. PIOLI: Well, one of the things that we have to be able to
evaluate is whether or not the end product achieves sufficient density
to provide a rate of return on the capital that even merits the
developer going forward with the project.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And how do we do that at this point in
time?
MR. PIOLI: Well, at this point in time what I've proposed to
you is a mix of uses and an aggregate density that achieves an
adequate rate of return, given the risks associated with
redevelopment, okay?
Now, if we have to pare that back or reduce the overall height,
we might be able to mitigate the loss of height with a little bit more
horizontal height.
What I've tried to do is design this in such a way, at least for the
preliminary proposal, so that we don't have buildings going straight
up in the air. We don't want -- we wanted that character and
distinction to create an overall charm in its appearance that can be
accomplished with its architectural design so that we don't have
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buildings just going straight up in the air. You have the different
height elements throughout, and you're able to do things with your
architectural style that will be able to accent those changes in height
as you go from floor to floor.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: So that we can have some greater
comfort with how this thing would likely turn out -- MR. PIOLI: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- can you point to other developments
you've done so that we can see generally what those look like and
how those have turned out?
MR. PIOLI: Well, I'm the sponsor of the proposal. My
development partner will in fact be able to demonstrate those past
experiences for you. And unfortunately, we're in negotiations, and
I'm not able to disclose at this time who those potential parties are.
But I can assure you that every potential partner is one that brings a
history and a level of skill and expertise to the table that will assure
us very competently of being able to complete this project.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. I believe you stated that the
legal costs of condemnation would perhaps be borne by the county. I
think we understand the implications of that.
What grant money -- we're obligating ourselves to apply for
grant money under this agreement. What happens if the grant money
is not made available?
MR. PIOLI: Well, then it would certainly become a
development expense. But I'm told by the office in Fort Myers, who
I've spoken with as recently as several months ago, that the funds are
there and available, and that we need -- there are cycles for the
application. Marlene Ford at the staff level has been put in charge of
this, and I've given her copies of everything that I had with respect to
these grant applications and the process involved, and I think that we
were just simply waiting for some direction from the CRA as to
whether or not to proceed with those applications. But my
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understanding is the monies are there and available.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. And if they are not for some
reason, that would be an expense --
MR. PIOLI: It would have to come under development
expense.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: And not a county expense, right?
MR. PIOLI: Correct.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. Do you have any purchase
options at all --
MR. PIOLI: One.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- on this property?
MR. PIOLI: Yes. But the property owners, given the false start
that we had last year, the property owners have been reluctant to
negotiate until the CRA established a firm direction in which they
wanted to go.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay. The -- you're proposing that
traffic impact studies and feasibility studies really be done toward the
end of the project. What happens if a traffic impact study is
conducted at that point in the project and we find that it exceeds the
level of standards that are acceptable? What do we do then?
MR. PIOLI: Well, I've spoken with Don Scott of your
transportation department, and he indicates that we do not currently
have any concurrency issues. And he, I would assume, has done an
assessment of what from his point of view the impact would be from
this particular project.
One of the things that I will have to ask you for, either as the
CRA or as the board, is a vested certificate of traffic impact
concurrency. And the reason for that is that if we are to successfully
go forward with this project, we need to know that there can't be
other projects that come on line east or southeast that would impact
this intersection and throw us out of concurrency. We need to know
that we remain in concurrency. And I'll be asking you for a vested
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March 19, 2003
certificate of traffic impact concurrency.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Henning, do you have
questions?
COMMISSIONER HENN1NG: Yeah, I do, but I think --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: You're going to wait?
COMMISSIONER HENN1NG: -- in an appropriate -- no --
appropriate time we need to give the court reporter some -- a break
here.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Well, now sounds like a good time.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Than you'll come back to me?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yes, then I'll come back to you. Let's
take -- what do you need, 10 minutes? Okay, no more than 10
minutes.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Ask for an hour.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: So we'll be back here at 23 minutes
before 11:00, okay? (Brief recess.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, we're back in session. And
Commissioner Henning had some questions.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I guess more general
statements. I don't know where the other board members of the CRA
sit. I know where I sit as the county commissioners (sic). I'm not
going to vote for condemnation on any redevelopment that I see
coming in the -- what's being proposed or anything that I can see in
the future. So I think it's fair to you to know that upfront. And I
guess the rest of the board should address that individually.
The vesting on concurrency, Mr. Pioli, what needs to happen
there is those impact fees need to be paid upfront before any vesting,
your project or any other projects is to be vested. Therefore, the
Board of Commissioner (sic) has, if it's not the development in this
case, the Board of Commissioners is going to have to pay that
upfront.
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March 19, 2003
And just looking at the numbers of commercial and retail is
going to be substantial. It's going to be millions of dollars. So that's
going to be on top of the $3 million request.
On top of the transportation improvements and what you're
asking, and the deferrals of the impact fees, we don't have a
mechanism for us to defer those for these types of jobs.
Now, looking at what the redevelopment is going to be is retail,
hotels, professional offices, the only thing that I can see that's
deferrable is the professional offices, and it depends on how many
jobs those professional offices are going to be.
Now, let's take a lawyer's office. The lawyer's going to make
$60,000. His support staff is going to make $25,000. I'm not even
sure if that's going to meet the criteria for the deferrals what (sic) the
board hasn't quite voted under the economic development council.
But the design that we're talking about is a wedding cake theory.
I'm not sure the board has discussed this in the past as to whether
that fits the growth management plan. I know that we stated floor
area ratio doesn't fit the growth management plan.
But I needed to be honest with you where I stand and I need to
be honest with the rest of the Board of Commissioners and the
citizens on the CRA committee. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thank you very much.
Would you like to go to public comment or do you need to ask
the petitioner --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I was just going to ask a couple of
questions in regards to compatibility and harmony with the existing
community that's around there at the present time. And I'm
concerned that once we start a large development of this magnitude,
that we're going to end up displacing a lot of people from that
particular area. And that's a very big concern of mine. Because I'm
concerned that we're going to end up with something that's going to
be of such large magnitude and the property values of surrounding
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areas -- of the area that we're talking about now is going to put such a
burden on those people that we -- for the amount of jobs that we're
going to create and everything else, that it's going to offset the
problems that it's going to generate for the people in this particular
area.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thank you very much. Are we ready
for public --
MS. FILSON: Yes, Mr. Chairman, we have seven speakers.
The first one is Peter Morkunas. He'll be followed by Ken Drum.
MR. MORKUNAS: It's a pleasure to address the board.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Excuse me, sir, could you spell your
last name?
MR. MORKUNAS: My last name is spelled
M-O-R-K-U-N-A-S. Morkunas.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thank you very much.
MR. MORKUNAS: It's Lithuanian, not Greek.
I came to Naples about 22 years ago, and I came from a new car
store, trying to buy an existing dealership in Naples. I was not
successful. But anyways, I wound up in the mini-triangle. And I
leased the property for approximately about 10 years before the
owner had passed away, and then had an opportunity to purchase the
land.
I do own three parcels in mini-triangle: Lot number one, 19, and
I think it's lot 65. Only one of those lots is actually zoned for C-5, as
Mr. Pioli mentioned over here. I'm one of the gentlemen that's
grandfathered in to have a used car lot on that comer.
When that lot was developed originally by Collier Motors, it
was a piece of dirt. There was nothing there. And actually, Davis
Boulevard wasn't even paved. And at that point, the used car lot
basically involved -- it was Collier Motors for five years, until I came
to Naples.
Now, my biggest problem that I have on that comer is the water
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March 19, 2003
problem that we have there. It's not been solved by the county, it's
not been solved by me. Every time it rains, I flood. In fact, two days
ago my property flooded again. But I've lived for 22 years with that
problem.
I can tell you one thing, that I could not redevelop my piece of
property or improve my piece of property until the county does
something about the waste -- I mean, not the waste, but the water
problem that we've got over there, okay? That's including the
residents and everybody else that's around over there.
But I take the brunt of it because we are the lowest ones on that
comer of that mini-triangle. And before the county can do anything,
whether this project gets approved or doesn't get approved, you've
got a big problem there at the mini-triangle. It's a water problem.
And I can't solve it. I don't think any of the other 14 property owners
can solve it. They're not going to solve it, they're not going to
improve their properties. And we can clean up and paint our
buildings and do everything else to make it look aesthetically clean,
and I've done that with my piece of property, but yet in mm, I've
suffered with this water problem. And nothing has been done about
it. Everybody's been speaking about it. I've written letters to you
guys over here and nothing has been accomplished on that fact. And
when the lake got filled in, I don't know whether that actually solved
the problem -- it didn't solve anything as far as flooding is concerned,
because the water has no place to go. The sewers are basically
impacted with debris, and there's nothing that can be done about it.
But I would be willing to support Mr. Pioli's project only
because it would enhance the city of doing something about that
mini-triangle over there. And the other owners will probably feel the
same way, because they can't do anything with that piece of property.
The only way you can get out -- to do anything over there is first of
all, solve the water problem, okay? There is some contamination as
far as the -- some of the land has been contaminated with oil, not
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March 19, 2003
from my business, because we don't change any of the oils, okay?
But there's a gas station next door that they had a problem with
contamination of fuel. My property got contaminated because down
the street over there somebody had an underground tank that spilled
over and all that oil came onto my property, which I had to clean up.
So these are some of the problems that I've inherited by being
there. But yet I'm a successful businessman, I've been here for 22
years, I've paid my taxes, okay, and my wife was on TV and she said
well, we actually own our property. Yes, we do, we actually now
own the property. But my biggest concern, and I would not be
opposed to even selling my property, as long as I could either get
relocated or get compensated for the land values that should actually
be commanded by market values, not by eminent domain. I don't
want to see anybody take anybody else's property by eminent
domain. And I commend Tom for taking that position over here.
But these property values, before you guys proceed on there,
should -- you should have all the property owners agreeing to sell
their property for a fixed price on there that would be comparable to
market values before you guys proceed to do anything else and
putting in $3 million of the taxpayers' money or anybody else's
money on there.
My property's going to be valued at today's market or maybe in
10 years it would probably be worth more, even 10 times more, okay,
because it's on the comer.
And property values is only worth what somebody will pay for
it. So by taking property by eminent domain is completely out of the
question. I mean, I wouldn't be -- I would oppose that. If somebody
wanted to do that to me, then I would go to court. Thank you very
much.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thank you very much, sir.
I would like to inform you that the eminent domain process
requires fair market value. It's not a seizure of property. Just so you
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know, it is a process that we have to go through when people decide
to do that.
I am not in favor of eminent domain seizures under any
circumstances, but when it does happen, it happens at fair market
value.
MR. MORKUNAS: Okay, thank you.
MS. FILSON: Your next speaker is Ken Drum. He will be
followed by Bruno Penzo.
MR. DRUM: I have a resolution to pass out first.
MS. FILSON: We can do that, sir.
MR. DRUM: My name is Ken Drum, and I'm here as president
of the East Naples Civic Association.
There's a resolution being distributed that was adopted by our
board of directors which says that we applaud Mr. Pioli's efforts in
trying to assemble a property within the triangle. And we also
believe that this would be a dramatic improvement for the area. If
you compared the East Trail, there's nothing really there that you
could call a centerpiece. Maybe the Towne Center, if it were
redeveloped. But this gives us the opportunity to have a centerpiece
for future development along the Trail.
I know that in redeveloping any property, it's frightening if you
are the decision makers. Because essentially what's going to happen
if you're going to be a partner in the project; whereas, if somebody
develops new construction, it's just a case of zoning. In this case, it
is actually -- you're becoming a partner.
The problem is, is that we can't get real redevelopment just
through what happens in the market. A good example is in Towne
Center. Miami Subs went broke, the building sat empty, and now we
have a Cuban restaurant. Who knows whether that will succeed or
not.
We had a gas station on the comer of Bayshore and 41. That
morphed itself into a Dawoo dealership. Then that folded. And so
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redevelopment in sort of a hodgepodge fashion that's taking place on
-- all up and down 41. We think that mini-triangle would give us a
boost, as well as Towne Center, if it were redeveloped, so that it
would spur a lot of other development along the Trail.
And we have many, as you know, vacant properties. They're
basically tombstones of failed businesses that for one reason or
another sit idle. And our community does not have the options that
other communities have. Our options aren't something closes and
something better takes its place. What our options are are what's
going to be there after a business fails or -- or several shopping
centers have vacant stores.
So we feel that this would be a boost to the area. We're not
supporting any particular details of the plan, other than Mr. Pioli's
efforts to assemble the property and to try to redevelop a good
portion of East Naples. Thank you.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Bruno Penzo, he will be
followed by Chahram Badamtchian.
MR. PENZO: Good morning. My name is Bruno Penzo, I'm
one of the owners in the mini-triangle, and I'm here to support Mr.
Pioli's project, simply for one reason: I'd like to see East Naples
spruce up a little bit. And I think this will be a gate to East Naples.
It will start cleaning up Davis Boulevard. Davis Boulevard looks so
lovely from Airport Road all the way to Santa Barbara and on, all the
way to 951. It looks wonderful, thanks to the efforts of
Commissioner Fiala, who put all this landscaping in and all that.
But between 41 and Airport Road, it's a disgrace, really, if you
look at the businesses. Tattoo parlors, body piercing and pawn
shops. And I have the feeling that Mr. Pioli would open up the gate
to East Naples. You come down from Naples and you cross that
bridge and then you see the rundown buildings.
The other nice thing with the mini-triangle, I don't think it's a
much condensed area with a lot of buildings and all that. So it would
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be very economical to purchase that piece of land. Because most of
it is -- there are big lots and no buildings on it. So I think it would be
very economical. That's all I can say. I'm for it.
And the only concern I have, are we ready for this development
at this time? I mean, we look at that beautiful medical building that
was built across Lakewood and there's only two offices built. The
rest of it is still vacant. Are we ready for this development to build it
and then for it to sit empty? Because if it doesn't build the revenue,
then I think we'll be in trouble. Thank you.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Chahram Badamtchian. He
will be followed by Peter Van Arsdale.
MR. BADAMTCHIAN: Good morning, Commissioners, my
name is Chahram Badamtchian, I'm from Antaramian Development
Corporation. We own a 15-acre property across the street from the
mini-triangle area. It's called Rupino (phonetic), also known as
Sandpiper Plaza. We are at the site development stage. We are ready
to start construction, probably by June or July. We cannot do the site
work.
We are in the process of negotiating with the county to donate --
to grant an easement for drainage which will help the area with the
drainage problems. We are also willing to do the permitting for the
county, to get the permitting taken care of. The only problem we see
is the county -- the storm management -- the stormwater management
department doesn't have the adequate funding to build the drainage
this year. And we are seeing that the CRF fund has $800,000 sitting
there. But the county's reluctant to spend any money because they
think like $3 million is needed for Mr. Pioli's project and they don't
want to touch that fund.
And we believe that you should not put all your eggs in one
basket. There's a drainage problem, we are willing to give the land,
we are willing to permit it. It's just that funding issue. And I think
the CRF funds should help with the drainage issue there. That's
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basically my comments.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Peter Van Arsdale. He will
be followed by Bob Murray.
MR. VAN ARSDALE: Good morning, Mr. Chairman and
members of the community redevelopment agency, my name is Peter
Van Arsdale. I reside at 123 1 lth Avenue South, in Naples.
To give you a little bit of my background on CRA's and
redevelopment, for about six years in the Nineties, I was the
chairman in the City of Naples CRA. We were largely responsible
for the redevelopment efforts of Fifth Avenue. I think that was a
very, very good success.
I'll also comment that everything that happened on Fifth Avenue
happened without one dime of government money for incentives.
I'd also, before I start speaking, say that I am in discussions with
a property owner in the mini-triangle area. I hope to get a
contracting job out of that. But the comments that I'm going to make
on the plan right now of what's before you are really similar to what I
made last summer in August when we were talking about the need
for a plan of the whole Davis/Bayshore Triangle area, and then the
appropriate zoning that allows the property to redevelop.
The problem right now with all these areas, and mini-triangle
frankly is no different than the 41/10 area and not much different
than Fifth Avenue South. It doesn't mean they'll be the same as they
redevelop, but they were platted and developed, you know, 20, 30,
40, 50 years ago when standards were different, when what it took to
make a viable business were different, and the zoning's still the same.
And it's the same zoning that's in place that's frankly keeping the
type of buildings and the type of operations that are there from
redeveloping.
And so what I discussed last summer was the need for a very
detailed comprehensive redevelopment plan for this entire area. The
main concern I have about this effort, besides the notion of eminent
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domain and even the notion that it has to be assembled -- the
properties have to be dissembled for anything positive to happen is
that it doesn't even deal with the rest of the redevelopment area. In
other words, what happens on the other side of Commercial, what
happens further down on Linwood and Kirkwood, and what happens
down on Shadowlawn, and then what happens on either side of 41 as
-- all of these areas that Mr. Drum stated that need help. And we
need to spend the time and effort, and the county's doing that. Like
in Naples Park. And it's not an easy effort, and not everybody jumps
on board, but it has to be a very comprehensive detailed visioning
process that gets the community on board in terms of understanding
what it can be.
And the plan also, if it's well done, will make it so even the
smallest property owner can sort of ride that tide of added value that
comes with a good plan. On Fifth Avenue South, a person with a
50-foot wide lot by 150-foot deep did very well in the
redevelopment. And just by having been there for 20 years. And
that person shouldn't be taken out of the picture, because -- and the
market values on Fifth Avenue South increased tenfold in probably
about four or five years. And what would happen here, I don't know.
But certainly give those small property owners the opportunity to,
like I say, rise up with that tide and take advantage of the good
planning process.
But my main comments right now are to get focused on the
plan. Maybe Mr. Pioli's project will come out of that plan, but let it
work on a private basis. Government doesn't need to get involved.
And if it's meant to be, it will happen. But we need to get a plan.
We haven't had one. Up to now we've had just some zoning overlay
studies that haven't done much to define what we want the place to
be.
So I think it's really important, and what I understand, you
know, the CRA advisory board and the staff are behind hiring good
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planners to come up with what we need to define the direction of this
entire area.
And so this is sort of a little bit of putting the cart before the
horse. In fact, I believe this meeting was set up last April, and the
advisory board decided to seek the new planner last summer. So I
really think this should, if nothing -- if I was making a decision I'd
say, you know, we're just not going to get involved with this
redevelopment. And the truth is you don't have to. But if nothing
else, certainly put it off and let them work within the process of
planning this area.
And the only other comment I'll make in closing is an aside, the
notion of getting reimbursed, the CRA being reimbursed or the TIF
funds being reimbursed through ad valorem taxes is not the way
that's supposed to work. In other words, TIF funds are ad valorem
taxes that didn't come to the county. So there should be no
reimbursement that's substantially different than what's happened in
North Naples.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thank you, Peter.
Commissioner Fiala has a question.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Can you tell me, when the
redevelopment started to take place on Fifth Avenue and you said
there was no government involved in that, right, it was only a private
venture, were there any incentives offered? Or what would -- what
would inspire the redevelopment of an area if you didn't have
government dollars involved?
MR. VAN ARSDALE: Well, let me say, there were no
financial incentives given out. Government was very involved. In
fact, government led the planning effort. And that's frankly what we
do. You do it in Collier County, we did that in the city.
The only incentives that we had to -- the major incentives that
were created were the change in the zoning. We rationalized the
parking, we made sense out of the parking that right now requires --
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you know, it used to in the city require that all parking be on-site,
totally ignoring all the right-of-way and parallel parking that were on
the street.
So we made -- the plan just made sense of that. In fact, the
capital that we used to effect much of the redevelopment from the
public's side was just frankly reallocating this parking that was being
unused. It was very simple, but there were no dollars involved. All
the TIF money for Fifth Avenue went for landscaping improvement.
And frankly, they're funding much of the infrastructure
improvements in the rest of the 41/10 area.
But like I say, we wrote not one check to subsidize someone to
come in and do it. But it was a huge change in zoning. Like right
now, the parking in this district for a restaurant is so ridiculous. It
assumes that every table's going to be full, and it requires parking for
every table to be full and that people only come two in a car.
So for example, the parking requirement on Fifth Avenue South
is three per 1,000. Here for a restaurant it's like -- it's 60 per so it's
about 13 per thousand, so it's four times more, and you're going to
say -- not that this is Fifth Avenue, but you have the same problems
here that the development code is so onerous and so restrictive that
nothing can happen.
And it's not that it shouldn't be proper, but right now it's
irrational. And the study would deal with that. In other words, that's
what Andre Suwanee (phonetic) did when he came to Fifth Avenue.
He said what you people do -- he's quite direct in how he says things,
but he said what you're doing is just crazy. You're having people --
you're having everybody required to have a parking place on-site to
redevelopment their property, even though they might come down
and park their car in a public space and walk to three shops. But
three shops have a parking space for you and you're parked on public
property. He says, isn't that crazy? And we were smart enough to
agree with him.
Page 50
March 19, 2003
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Can you tell me, did you defer any
impact fees or waive any type of fees at all?
MR. VAN ARSDALE: No. I think the waiving of impact fees
is -- we could have done it on some of our sewer and water, but no,
we didn't at all. It just wasn't necessary. I mean, it happened with a
good plan, it happened with a good implementation of a good plan.
And that's all we have to do. And this area is ripe for it. I mean, it
really -- the beauty is that it has a strong road network, it has small
parcels, it has a lot of things that can go towards making a very nice
essentially moderate urban environment, rather than suburban.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I think this piece of property has
got a lot of potential here, but I don't feel that the government should
get involved into -- it's almost like buying into a wildcat well here.
And maybe the property owners that are presently there, they might
like to get involved, basically what you said, they should also reap
some of the benefits, so maybe they ought to buy shares in this whole
area, and that's one way that they could come up with the financing
to redevelop this area. But as far as the county basically footing the
whole bill, I feel very, very uncomfortable about this.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any other questions of Mr. Van
Arsdale?
MR. VAN ARSDALE: Just comment, their shares are their
property, and their involvement has to come in the planning process.
It has to be a very comprehensive all-inclusive building process that
creates a vision. And then on Fifth Avenue, some people just sold
their land and left, some people came in and bought land and
developed, and some of those existing owners redeveloped. It was a
remarkable process. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Next speaker?
MS. FILSON: Your next speaker is Bob Murray. He will be
followed by Tom Selleck (phonetic). I wish.
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March 19, 2003
MR. MURRAY: Good morning, Commissioners. My name is
Bob Murray.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Let's hear from Tom Selleck first. It's
Tom Selck.
MS. FILSON: Selck?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yes.
MR. MURRAY: But we know where Ms. Filson's mind is
going, and that's good.
Thank you for the opportunity to speak this morning. I
represent the East Naples Civic Association, and as the chairman of
the economic development committee, and we got involved with Mr.
Pioli's project when he made a presentation to us, giving us an
overview and answering our questions. And we -- we're enthusiastic
to see that there would be something that could happen to the
mini-triangle. And we are applauding the fact that he is attempting
to do that in response to an RFP process from your CRA.
I almost feel conflicted here, because I must say at the outset
that when first I visioned to take on the project that you know as
corridor 41, in my ignorance I was unaware that the piece of the
triangle was already a CRA. And so we are very much interested in
that property, although we don't get involved directly with it. As you
know, we begin at Airport Pulling and go down.
But ours is a free market approach. It's a master plan overlay.
A CRA is already in place and that's the methodology, so we don't
have a problem with that. The key question is, I listened carefully to
Ken Drum, our president of the civic association, and his focus is
somewhat more on the negative than I can allow myself to be.
Economic development, I see our gateway as an urbanization
process. The mini-triangle, followed by the Towne Center, followed
by ultimately down to Lely as we see growth in the years ahead.
I know that there are desired efforts, if you will, on the part of
people like Mr. Pioli to make a plan that can bring something into
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March 19, 2003
being immediately. And perhaps in your wisdom you'll determine to
do that. For my part, I would advocate the working in the free
market. I would hope that you would help him to the degree that you
can, but working in the free market is where we would like to be.
We will help him if he can bring the resources to bear, but I
think it's reasonable to expect that whomever it is that's going to
redevelop that area should be able to a assemble those resources.
And so I appear to be in conflict, perhaps, with what Mr. Pioli
wants to do. No, I'm not. I'm enthusiastic that he accomplish it, if
he's capable to do that. And with your appropriate help, I think that
would be a good thing.
Towne Center, which Mr. Van Arsdale just mentioned, and
below, he's concerned for the little guy, as it were. As you know,
I've stated it many times, will again, we're very much concerned for
the little guy. We want to see that everybody who's been in this area
for a long time can take advantage of the upcoming boom. And so
we would like to think that they can express their vote through their
ownership interest.
I would hope that Mr. Pioli would look at that process that he's
now looked at and revise it some. And with that, I will conclude, sir.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thank you very much.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Tom Selck. He will be
followed by Craig Woodward.
MR. SELCK: Mr. Chairman--
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Fiala is disappointed.
MR. SELCK: I know, a lot of people have been disappointed
by my appearance.
I'm an architect here in Naples. I have a bachelor's degree in
architecture, a master degree in city planning. I was a practicing city
planner for many years. I served on the PAB in Naples for almost
five years, and I have a deep interest in what happens here in Naples.
I think that redevelopment is inevitable, that this area will
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March 19, 2003
redevelop. My company is working on a redevelopment project. In
there now we've had a pre-ep (phonetic) conference with the
planning department, we've met with the traffic people and so forth,
so the project is moving forward. So I think redevelopment is
inevitable.
I would encourage you to take the high road. I agree completely
with Mr. Van Arsdale, you're embarking on an RFP to master plan
the whole area overlay and so forth and develop standards that you
want for the area, not what a developer wants because it's good for
his pocketbook.
I've been involved in a number of redevelopment projects all
across the country. One of the most successful approaches, going --
turning now to something more positive, one of the most successful
approaches that you might want to consider is declaring the whole
triangle a PUD. Do negotiated zoning for each development that
goes on in there. Right now the process to redevelop property in the
triangle is onerous, it's time-consuming, it's irrational, and it's not
responsive to what it takes.
What kicked off the development and redevelopment of Fifth
Avenue was getting rid of the irrationality that was there, allowing
businesses to go and expand, and just the simple business of
changing the parking standards to something more reasonable kicked
it off. They had a cap, or a number of parking spaces, and those were
allocated on a first-come basis, and when those were done, there
weren't anymore, and development slowed down a lot.
So it's a process that works, but it was a process where the
government nurtured the redevelopment. Right now there is no
nurturing of any redevelopment in the triangle area. It's just the
opposite.
I represented an owner of a property there who had to bring an
old building up to the current architectural standards, even though it
meant redesigning the whole facade of the building. That's irrational.
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March 19, 2003
So there it sits fallow again. Anyway, that's all have I to say.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Mr. Selck, Commissioner Fiala has a
question.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: You were saying that you're
working on a project now? MR. SELCK: Yes.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Is that within the mini-triangle --
MR. SELCK: Yes.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- or the greater triangle?
MR. SELCK: No, within the -- it's down at the end. It's the old
Burger King property.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay, thank you.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Craig Woodward. He will
be followed by your final speaker, Chuck Gunther.
MR. WOODWARD: Hello, I'm Craig Woodward. I'm an
attorney with the law firm of Woodward, Pires and Lombardo.
I believe previously my partners, Tony Pires and Chris
Lombardo have appeared before you on this issue. And they couldn't
be here and they asked me to handle it.
This law firm represents Robert and Rebecca Taylor, owners of
land within the Gateway mini-triangle area. On numerous occasions,
we and our clients have appeared before you and before the County
Commission to express serious concerns and reservations about the
method, manner and procedures utilized in the county's efforts to
force revitalization and redevelopment of the properties within the
mini-triangle area. I have this in a letter and I'll give it to you all.
We have consistently expressed the sincere belief and opinion
that the best way for redevelopment to occur would be through the
implementation of creative and innovative zoning overlays, which I
think you've just heard from other speakers. This would provide
incentives and flexibility in the development and redevelopment of
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March 19, 2003
the properties in this area.
Unfortunately, to date, the efforts of the county appear to be
designed to discourage investment and redevelopment, other than
through the forced redevelopment envisioned by dated
redevelopment studies.
We strongly urge this board to adopt Option 2-B, as outlined in
your staff recommendation, as the course of action that will more
efficiently lead to the successful redevelopment of this area.
The concept of developing zoning standards and incentives to
encourage redevelopment of the mini-triangle is on Page 3 of your
executive summary, in Option 2-B. And it's also the planning
services' recommendation, number two. This we feel is a positive
course of action that implements good planning principles, concepts
and works with the property owners.
We urge the board to reject Option 1, which is outlined in your
planning service recommendation, for three reasons: First, this
Option 1 not only places the county in a position of working against
current property owners, but it also requires the taking of property
owners' lands and businesses.
Secondly, your county staffs own language concedes that the
studies upon which the proposal is based are stale and dated. To
quote from that executive summary, it says, quote, a number of
unknowns remain that would affect any mini-triangle property
redevelopment. Chief among these unknown factors is the need to
conduct a market study to assess whether sufficient demand exists for
a proposed mix of uses. In other words, the proposal which has been
submitted by FP Real Estate Investment, LC appears to lack any
market-based reasons, and thus, consideration of any redevelopment
proposal other than the zoning overlay is premature.
Thirdly, and I think importantly, Option 1 attempts to hand the
redevelopment of this area over to an organization that first doesn't
own a piece of property in this area; secondly, has no stated history
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March 19, 2003
or track record of involvement, much less success and adventure of
this type and magnitude; and third, we've checked and according to
the records of the Florida Secretary of State, this entity was formed
in July of '98 with an initial capital of $2,000, and then it was
administratively dissolved October 4th of 2002. Now, it was
reinstated on October 28th of 2002, but it doesn't have a track record.
For all of the above reasons and for the reasons expressed at
prior hearings and meetings, we urge that you reject the proposal by
FP Real Estate Investments, LC and reject Option 1. We feel again
that planning services' recommendation No. 2 and Option 2-B is the
best way to go.
And I do have a copy of this, along with the documentation
from the Secretary of State's office on the status of that LC for you.
Thank you.
MS. FILSON: Your final speaker is Chuck Gunther.
MR. GUNTHER: Hello, I'm Chuck Gunther, 2448 Bayside
Street, in the triangle. Not the mini-triangle, but the old triangle. We
call it the freedom triangle. I'm here representing myself, because
I'm also a member of the advisory board here.
I left today and I came back, because I had a couple of things
that was bugging the heck out of me. We've heard this proposal from
Mr. Pioli a few times. We've heard the word variables, a lot of
variables. The variables to me are unknown. There's so many of
them that I can't see anybody ever voting for something like that and
saying yes, we'll do this. You're not talking about one plan, you're
talking about taxpayers' money here.
Something was said about who would pay for it if there's
condemnation or something like that. The developer's not going to
pay for that. He said he would probably bear those costs. The
developer does not exact condemnation, the CRA or the county
commission does. They bear the price. Nobody else. That means
the taxpayers pay for that. We don't want that.
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March 19, 2003
There's a lot of things in that area that have held back
development. The big thing right now is we're basically a
condemned area. We haven't been condemned, but we've been told
we're a blighted area. We can't do well. The prices, by setting prices
-- Mr. Pioli said the price is set by the two sales we've had recently in
the mini-triangle. That doesn't set prices. This was set as a catalyst
area, the mini-triangle.
Right now we have Mr. Antaramian with Sandpiper Village
across the street, that's probably the best catalyst area you could have
in this whole area. If that proceeds, the mini-triangle has to jump. It
does not need to be developed by anybody right now. That's going to
go by its own market forces. These two recent sales have not set any
prices. As soon as Antaramian comes out of the ground, those prices
are going to skyrocket.
So I think what we have to do is we have to sit back and say
let's take our time, be patient. The plans that are coming up, we just
had a thing about the -- the short list we have about the planners of
this whole area. We'll come out with a planner for the whole area
that will deal with different zoning things. Then you can start talking
about the unified plan. Not until then. You can't say here, you play
with it, you make your own ball and you make your own court, you
do what you want. It's not going to work that way.
I think that neighborhood, the whole neighborhood, needs
something that it doesn't have right now. It needs pride, it needs a
backbone. It needs somebody to stand there and say yes, you are a
neighborhood. The mini-triangle has been separated. Everybody's
been telling them, do this, do that.
How many sales does Mr. Pioli have in there? Contracts? We
don't know. We think there might be possibly one that's not a
contract. We think it's probably just an option. An option doesn't
mean anything.
We're dealing (sic) a lot of things that are not too concrete. I
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March 19, 2003
can't-- you know, as an individual, I don't like this, as an individual
taxpayer, I don't like it. Our neighborhood association, the freedom
triangle association, we're dead set against this. We'd like to see this
area develop as the market forces push it. And they will push it.
This area has been trying to develop for years. We've seen good
things go in there, we've seen things go out. We want it developed,
but we want it developed in a reasonable, smart way. Don't jump
into things and say let's do it just to develop it. It's going to fall flat
on your face; you know, it's going to happen. We don't want to see
that happen. We want to see it work. If you go patiently, do it
logically, it's going to work.
That's all I came to say -- well, no, one other thing. There's a lot
of variables. Let's throw another one in there right now. Our
economic times are not what they are yesterday (sic). As of 8:00
tonight, they might be a whole lot different. We're not talking about
just money, we're talking about war. That can make a development
just right out the window. We have to use our heads and think about
what's going to happen.
I don't think you can plan for tomorrow right now. I think what
you've got to do is turn something like this down and say let's go
back to the drawing board.
I really question, if you try to develop an area, if only one
developer comes forward, doesn't that throw up a flag? Doesn't that
mean that-- you know, we have a lot of really good developers in
this area. To me that throws up a flag that says look, these other
guys don't want to touch it. There's something here that might be
wrong. I think it's up to you guys to vote, and I hope it's responsibly.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Thank you.
MS. FILSON: That was your last speaker, Mr. Chairman --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, thank you very much.
MS. FILSON: -- for this item.
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March 19, 2003
CHAIRMAN COYLE:
comments?
COMMISSIONER HENNING:
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING:
motions.
Motion to reject the proposal.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
anything else in that, or--
Members of the board, any questions,
I'll make a motion.
Actually, it should be several
Are you going to incorporate
COMMISSIONER FIALA: He said several motions.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I think there's several to
come.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Take them sequentially?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Staffs recommendations. One
is there being special redevelopment efforts by the mini-triangle, that
will be incorporated in the motion, then we need to give direction on
what we need to give staff direction for --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: To look at Option B?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Option B, yeah.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: To look at Option B.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: So the motion proposes that we reject
the proposal and also to direct the staff to abandon any special
redevelopment efforts for mini-triangle property; is that what you
have in mind?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Correct.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Is there a second?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Second by Commissioner Halas.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Let me ask, did you say abandon
any efforts--
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, what I'm--
Commissioner Fiala, what I'm looking at is --
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March 19, 2003
COMMISSIONER HALAS:
look at Option B is I think what we're looking for.
Abandon Option A, basically, and
To make sure that
MR. WHITE: If I may assist, Mr. Chairman?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Where are you?
MR. WHITE: Commissioner Henning, it may be appropriate to
just make a motion to accept staff's recommendation 2-B, which
includes in it the rejection of the proposal and the direction to the
staff.
COMMISSIONER HENN1NG: I amend my motion.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, motion's been amended.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I amend my second, yes.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, very well. I'll call the question --
or is there any discussion?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, just a little bit of discussion.
If we're talking about abandoning this, I think -- of course now I'm
talking about an area in my district.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Understand. I think we all
realize that.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And I think it's vital -- and I think
we all agree, I don't think we're in disagreement here, that
redevelopment is necessary. And this area will be a catalyst to our
redevelopment.
So if we abandon this, I would like us to see if we couldn't do
something. We've had many suggestions here, like declaring it a
PUD, making sure a plan is in place, fix the flooding. With the TIF
funds I would guess we would use to fix that flooding. But I think
that we need to be moving forward. If this plan is rejected, we need
to be moving forward to encourage some type of redevelopment.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I think that is the intent of the motion.
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March 19, 2003
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes, it is, that is the intent.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Did you have something to add?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, just -- I just want to
clarify that for Commissioner Fiala is we want a master plan for that,
and for staff to develop that with public input of East Naples. And I
hope Mr. Van Arsdale is involved in this. With his experience,
long-term commitment to the City of Naples and Fifth Avenue, it
would be very valuable. That is what I'm looking at. But the
particular motion is exactly what you want to do. CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And the other thing --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah, and the other thing I believe
we need to look at also is the fact that when we look at the triangle,
we look at the whole concept of the neighborhoods and everybody
else, then get everybody in agreement of how we want to direct
growth in that area and redevelopment. I think it's very, very
important.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Yeah, I kind of hope that we'll
be able to look at the possibilities of forming an MSTU there for
drainage. It will address one of the biggest issues. And I think that
would be a good turning point for them also. That's not part of the
motion, I'm just suggesting that as a side issue.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, we've got a motion by
Commissioner Henning, second by Commissioner Halas. All in
favor?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Opposed.
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March 19, 2003
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, opposed?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: No, I said aye.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Oh, okay, carries 4-1, Commissioner
Fiala dissenting.
MR. TOMERLIN: From staff's -- just to clarify, I think what
we're doing is we gave you a set of options, and then planning
services' recommendations. We're looking at planning services'
recommendation No. 2, which is really one in the same, but
expounding on Option 2-B, which was given further up the page.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Correct.
MR. TOMERLIN: Okay.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: We have two different 2's. We
have a 2 here and a 2 here, but both on Page 3, right? MR. TOMERLIN: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Top of Page 2 it says 2, reject the
submitted proposal with a number of sub-options, and sub-option was
B.
MR. TOMERLIN: Sub-option B.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Are we on the same sheet of music
here?
MR. TOMERLIN: Yes.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay, that's on the top of it.
MR. TOMERLIN: Yes. And that coincides precisely with the
planning services recommendation No. 2.
MR. SCHMITT: On the bottom of that--
MR. TOMERLIN: On the bottom of that--
COMMISSIONER FIALA: On the bottom, okay.
MR. TOMERLIN: -- very same page. Yes. Sorry, that's a little
confusing.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: It's confusing.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, where do we go from here,
Immokalee component redevelopment area items?
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March 19, 2003
Item #6B
ALLOCATION OF $200,000 FROM FUND 186 TOWARDS
UTILITY AND ROAD PROJECTS IN THE IMMOKALEE
RFDF, VF, I,OPMFNT DISTRICT- APPROVF, D
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I make a motion that we accept
staffs recommendation on Item 6(B).
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Motion to--
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: I second that, but I hope we
can hear the speakers also --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Just a moment, we have public
speakers. How many, one or two?
MS. FILSON: For 6(B) we have two.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Two. Who are they?
MS. FILSON: The first one is Fred Thomas.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: You want to talk us out of this?
MR. TOMERLIN: No, I heard your motion, thank you very
much.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Who's the other speaker?
MS. FILSON: The other speaker is Raymond Holland.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: You waiving? Okay, good. So we have
a motion by Commissioner Henning, a second by Commissioner
Coletta.
Any discussion?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yes. I understand there's going
to be some fundraising as a part of this on any other things to come
up in this planning. Please invite the commissioners.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, good.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Now Mr. Thomas is going to
get up and --
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March 19, 2003
MR. TOMERLIN: I didn't hear what you said, sorry.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I understand there's going to be
fundraisers for any additional monies. I'm just asking please invite
the commissioners and let us help you get the word out to any
fundraising for these efforts.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: One question, clarification.
Commissioner Henning, did your motion include all three
recommendations? And is it necessary that we have separate
motions or can we group those together?
MR. WHITE: Assuming they're all going to be for approval, I
guess you could do 6(B), (C) and (D) together. I'd certainly prefer
we do them separately, but --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: All right, let's go with 6(B) business.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion for approval.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: I assume your motion was for 6(B); is
that okay?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Exactly.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second that.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: It's already been seconded. So we'll
now vote.
All in favor, say aye.
(Unanimous votes of ayes.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Carries unanimously.
Item #6C
PROPOSAL TO FUND UP TO $49,000 FROM
REDEVELOPMENT FUND 186 TOWARDS AN ECONOMIC
INCENTIVE STUDY FOR THE IMMOKALEE AREA-
APPROVED WITH A RECOMMENDATION TO THE BOARD
OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS THAT THE CONTRACT BE
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March 19, 2003
AWARDED
We'll now go to 6(C).
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Motion for approval.
MS. FILSON: Mr. Chairman, I have a speaker on 6(C). Fred
Thomas.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second the motion.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Fred's gone.
MS. FILSON: No, he's here, he's waiving.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any discussion? No discussion, call
the question.
MR. GOIN: Randy Goin (phonetic), redevelopment community
manager for Collier County.
I just wanted to clarify something under Item 6(C). The
recommendation from the advisory board was to fund the entire
amount of the study in the amount of 49,000. The planning staff
recommendation for that was for half that amount.
At that point in time, when that recommendation was made, we
had not been privy to a contract entered into between the Immokalee
CDC and the Lesser group. Mr. Thomas has a copy of that contract
with him, which indicates the -- that particular group has actually
entered into that contract. And as a result of that, I think we'd like to
modify our recommendation accordingly.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: You want to modify your
recommendation to fund the entire amount or only the $24,500?
MR. GOIN: I think it would be appropriate to recommend the
entire amount, consistent with the --
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, I still need a clarification on an
issue of contract award that wasn't made by this board, and the
legality of us agreeing to commit funding for it.
MR. WHITE: Assistant County Attorney Patrick White.
I believe that since the funding source is 186, that you're entitled
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March 19, 2003
to make those distributions. And with respect to whether there'll be a
subsequent contract that's entered into for the performance of the
work, I think that's something that certainly could go before the
board for approval, perhaps as a consent agenda item.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, I think that would be proper
technically to do that. If we're going to authorize expenditure of
funds, we need to make sure that we also authorize the awarding of
the contract, I believe.
MR. WHITE: Well, certainly you could make a
recommendation to the Board of County Commissioners that the
contract would be approved.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Would that be incorporated in your
motion, Commissioner Coletta?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: It would, but I do have one
question.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Fred, I was wondering, what
happened to the money that's already been collected from the general
public towards this Lesser study, and how much was it?
MR. THOMAS: Fred Thomas for the record, chairman of the
Immokalee redevelopment project group.
In order to get this study started, the Immokalee community
development corporation, a non-profit corporation concerned about
economic development, spurred by our chamber, signed the contract
with the Lesser group of 49,000, knowing full well that the scope of
the project would have to be increased to include Ave Maria and the
overall impact in the future of value of these impacts in terms of
future taxes and what have you. So we know that extra money we
have is going to be used to pay for those extra costs.
If the county could take care of the 49,000 on the front end, we
could finish the rest of it and make sure our good city comes back to
you mid-April.
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March 19, 2003
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, thank you.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you.
MS. FILSON: Mr. Chairman, I have one additional speaker,
Bill Klohn.
MR. THOMAS: While I'm at the mike still, I want to ask the
attorney something. We have signed a contract and we're asking the
Immokalee CDC to be reimbursed the $49,000 they put out for that
contract. Does that make it more complicated or less complicated?
MR. WHITE: It certainly makes it more complicated, but I
don't know that it makes it so complex that we can't resolve it either
through taking it back to the board. But I'd have to look at both
contracts in order to know.
MR. THOMAS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN COYLE:
we? Okay.
MR. WHITE:
MR. KLOHN:
Thank you, sir.
We'll sort our way through that, won't
Yes, Mr. Chairman.
Good morning. For the record, my name is Bill
Klohn, K-L-O-H-N.
I would like to thank Mr. Coletta for spearheading this effort out
in Immokalee. Naturally it's his district and he -- it goes to his heart.
But he was really the catalyst for the group that is now known as the
Immokalee community development corporation.
From this catalyst came the business leaders of Immokalee to
really put the time and effort in to do what you requested us to do
back in November and that is create an economic incentive toolbox
which is comprehensive for your consideration at a board meeting.
So I think that the study that is being done by Lesser, who as
you may know also was heavily involved in the Ave Maria study, I
think that they were a perfect firm. And we interviewed a number of
firms that are in the business of these types of studies. So I'd like to
thank Commissioner Coletta for beginning this effort and providing
the catalyst and for your consideration today. I think that the monies
Page 68
March 19, 2003
that will be hopefully approved today are very appropriate for
community redevelopment, which is the motive of our group in the
study. Thank you very much.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Yeah, I would just like to clarify the
motion on 6(C) and that is that it will provide CRA matched funds up
to the entire amount, not to $24,500. Is that the intent of the motion?
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, and the seconder? Second?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I think we're working on 6(B),
aren't we? 6(C)?
CHAIRMAN COYLE: 6(C).
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Yes, it is.
CHAIRMAN FIALA: Okay, very good. Any further
discussion?
All in favor, signify by saying aye.
All opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Carries unanimously.
Item #6D
ADDITIONAL $5,000 OF FUND 186 AS SEED MONEY
TOWARDS THE SURVEYING, DESIGN AND CONSTRUCTION
OF 5TH STREET DRAINAGE IMPROVEMENTS IN THE
IMMOKAI~F,F, RFJDF, VF, IJOPMF, NT DISTRICT- APPROVFD
6(D), Delta.
COMMISSIONER COLETTA: 6(D), I make a motion for
approval.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Okay, we have a motion by
Page 69
March 19, 2003
Commissioner Coletta, second by Commissioner Fiala for approval.
And we have a--
MS. FILSON: One speaker.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: One speaker who has --
MS. FILSON: Fred Thomas.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: -- just waived.
MR. THOMAS: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Any discussion? Okay, all in favor,
signify by saying aye.
Opposed, like sign.
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Carries unanimously.
Any further business to come before the board?
MR. TOMERLIN: That will be it. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COYLE: Then we're adjourned.
Page 70
March 19, 2003
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 11:37 a.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
FRED COYLE, C
ATTEST:
DWIGHT ,~.~ttI~O( ~,K, CLERK
~a~~~.m~¢s a~ved by the Board on
presentea .... ~.,.'.'" or as co~ectea
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT
REPORTING SERVICE, INC. BY CHERIE' NOTTINGHAM.
Page 71