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CLB Minutes 01/15/2003 RJanuary 15, 2003 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD Naples, Florida January 15, 2003 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Contractors' Licensing Board, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: LES DICKSON MICHAEL BARIL WALTER CRAWFORD, IV KFJNNETH DUNNE ERIC GUITE' RICHARD JOSLIN ANN KFJLLER KENNETH LLOYD MARGARET RODGERS ALSO PRESENT: Thomas Bartoe, Licensing Compliance Officer Robert Zachary, County Attorney Patrick Neale, Counsel to the Board Page 1 AGENDA COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD DATE: January 15, 2002 TIME: 9:00 A.M. W. HARMON TURNER BUILDING (ADMINISTRATION BUILDING) COURTHOUSE COMPLEX ~,NY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THAT TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED. I. ROLL CALL II. ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS: III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA: IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: DATE: November 20, 2002 V. DISCUSSION: VI. NEW BUSINESS: Adolfo A. Carta - Request to qualify a second company. Paraschiva Valean - Request to waive exam for Tile & Marble license. Michael Faulconer, Jr. - Request to waive exam for Masonry license. VII. OLD BUSINESS: Mihai G. Poppa - Failure to obey order of the Contractors Licensing Board. PUBLIC HEARINGS: Patrick L. Farrell- Contesting Citation #1326 issued for working without a contractor's license. IX. REPORTS: X. NEXT MEETING DATE: FEBRUARY 19, 2003 January 15, 2003 MR. CRAWFORD: 9:05, I'd like to call this meeting to order. This is the Collier County Contractors' Licensing Board, January 15th, 2003. Any person who decides to appeal a decision of this board will need a record of the proceedings pertaining thereto and, therefore, may need to ensure that a verbatim record of the proceedings is made, which record includes that testimony in evidence upon which the appeal is to be based. I'd like to start roll call to my right. MR. DUNNE: Dunne, present. MR. BARIL: Michael Baril. MS. KELLER: Ann Keller. MR. CRAWFORD: Walter Crawford. MR. JOSLIN: Richard Joslin. MR. LLOYD: Kenneth Lloyd. MR. GUITE': Eric Guite'. MS. RODGERS: Margaret Rodgers. MR. CRAWFORD: Great. Everyone's here but our faithful chairman, Mr. Dickson. Any additions or deletions to the agenda, Mr. Bartoe? MR. BARTOE: Yes. For the record, I'm Tom Bartoe, Collier County licensing compliance officer, and I have one addition, I believe we can put it under discussion. It will be real short. It's a notice of informational workshop that I passed out to the board, along with a packet. And staff has no other additions or deletions. MR. CRAWFORD: Thank you. Do we have a motion to approve the agenda? MR. LLOYD: So moved. MR. JOSLIN: Second, Joslin. MR. CRAWFORD: We have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Page 2 January 15, 2003 All in favor? Opposed? (No response.) MR. CRAWFORD: Motion carries. Do we have a motion to approve the minutes of our last meeting, November 20th, 2002? MR. JOSLIN: Joslin, approved. MR. LLOYD: Second, Lloyd. MR. CRAWFORD: We have a second. Discussion? All in favor? Opposed? (No response.) MR. CRAWFORD: Motion carries. Okay, we now have one item under discussion. Mr. Bartoe, do you want to explain the notice of informational workshops to us? MR. BARTOE: There's going to be an informational workshop. It's given by the Collier County Attorney's Office, and they'll be presenting it on the Sunshine Law, public records, ethics, ex parte issues. And with the sheet of paper I gave you, you can see there's many boards involved. And they're scheduled for Friday, two days from now, at 2:30 to 4:00 p.m. And the other time it's scheduled is Monday, February 3rd, from 9:30 a.m. until 11:00. Both workshops will be held here at the government center, in this room, and they're open to the public. They also will be televised and broadcast on the Collier County government channel. And they do want me to get back with them with how many of this board plan on attending which meeting. MR. CRAWFORD: Can we check our schedules and just call you this week? Would that be okay? MR. BARTOE: That would be fine. But if you're planning on Friday this week attending that one, the sooner the better, to advise me. Page 3 January 15, 2003 MR. CRAWFORD: Are these required for us? MR. BARTOE: I have read nothing where they're required. Mr. Zachary might know. And also is my thoughts, if you're unable to attend either one, don't forget, it's going to be broadcast on TV. MR. ZACHARY: No, they're not required, but it's a good idea to-- MR. CRAWFORD: Recommended. MR. ZACHARY: -- recommend that you at least have an idea that since your (sic) sometimes act as a quasi judicial board, to have an understanding of the Sunshine Law and to how they -- you know, to interact away from this board. MR. CRAWFORD: I just asked, because we had one not too long ago. I can't remember when it was, six months ago, maybe, we just had one. But we'll let you know, Mr. Bartoe. MR. BARTOE: Thank you. MR. CRAWFORD: Okay, moving on to new business. The first item on the agenda is Mr. Adolfo Carta. Are you here today? Please step forward to the microphone. Mr. Carta, we need to have you sworn in with the court reporter. (Speaker was duly sworn.) MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Carta, could you tell us your reason for being here today? MR. CARTA: Trying to qualify a second company. MR. CRAWFORD: Okay. Mr. Dickson, our chairman, has just arrived. MR. DICKSON: My apologies. MR. CRAWFORD: No problem. Mr. Carta, currently you qualify which business? MR. CARTA: Master Plumbing Systems. MR. CRAWFORD: And you're here today to request a second entity qualification for which company? Page 4 January 15, 2003 MR. CARTA: Master Contracting Enterprises. MR. CRAWFORD: What's the difference between the two companies? MR. CARTA: We're planning on expanding, provide other services: Irrigation, water treatment, electrical, HVAC, so we're preparing. MR. CRAWFORD: Master Plumbing, the original company, is more of a traditional plumbing company? MR. CARTA: Yes. MR. CRAWFORD: The new entity would be sprinklers and other things? MR. CARTA: Correct. MR. CRAWFORD: MR. CARTA: Yes. MR. CRAWFORD: And you are the 51 percent owner of both? Mr. Bartoe, any complaints or filings against Master Plumbing? MR. BARTOE: I only had one minor one, and Mr. Carta was unaware of it, because the complainant kept calling the contractor who built the house who never got ahold of Mr. Carta. So once I did, he immediately took care of that minor problem. MR. CRAWFORD: Great. Has anyone here had a chance to review the credit report? MR. DUNNE: I didn't see a credit report in this packet. MS. KELLER: Yeah, there wasn't one. MR. DICKSON: I've got one in front of me. MR. CRAWFORD: I have one. MR. DICKSON: It was in last -- MR. BARIL: No credit report in my package. MR. DICKSON: This was scheduled for a month or two ago. In the old one there's one. I don't see anything negative on the credit report. MR. JOSLIN: I think everything pretty well is in order for this Page 5 January 15, 2003 gentleman. I'd make a motion that we approve his application. Joslin. MR. CRAWFORD: We have a motion by Joslin. Do we have a second? MS. RODGERS: Second, Rodgers. MR. CRAWFORD: We have a second. Any discussion? All in favor of approving Mr. Carta for a second entity license? Opposed? (No response.) MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Carta, thank you. As I understand, your paperwork will not be available today, but should be ready tomorrow. You can stop by and see Mr. Bartoe and his staff tomorrow. Thank you. MR. CARTA: Thank you. MR. CRAWFORD: I think I'll turn the floor back over to our chairman, Mr. Dickson. MR. DICKSON: My apologies. I need to add the extra 15 or 20 minutes for traffic, remember it's season. Did we change anything or are we one and the same? MR. CRAWFORD: We added one item under discussion. We have some Sunshine Law workshops coming up, that's your yellow package. Other than that, we're on Mr. -- MR. DICKSON: Mr. Valean, are you present -- or excuse me, Ms. Valean, would you please come forward to the podium? I need to have you sworn in. (Speaker was duly sworn.) MR. DICKSON: If you would, step up to the mic. And if you would, tell us, you want us to waive the exam for a tile and marble license? MS. VALEAN: MR. DICKSON: MS. VALEAN: Yes. Can you tell us why? I tried to pass it by -- Page 6 January 15, 2003 MR. DICKSON: MS. VALEAN: times. MR. MS. MR. MR. Can you get a little closer to the mic? I tried to pass it by writing, and I failed two DICKSON: You tried to take the test? VALEAN: Yes, I did. DICKSON: Okay. CRAWFORD: I see the highest score on business and law was a 68, and the highest score on the tile and marble was somewhere in the fifties, 52, maybe. MR. DICKSON: I also see that on five different occasions you were scheduled to take the test, but did not show up. MS. VALEAN: My kids were all sick or I was out of the town. MR. DICKSON: Okay. MR. CRAWFORD: Why do you think you had problems taking the test? Was it a language barrier issue, perhaps? MS. VALEAN: I think because of my English I was not -- I was missing some of the words. I didn't understood them completely. MR. JOSLIN: We had a case that was similar, where we had Experior -- MR. CRAWFORD: What is your primary language? MS. VALEAN: Romanian. MR. CRAWFORD: Romanian. This board has had some leniency in the past with people who have had a hard time with the test, especially for language barrier reasons, but in most cases they were much closer on the scores than you were. And in most cases, they had passed one of the two portions, so you're making it fairly difficult for us. Can you tell us a little bit about your experience as a contractor? MS. VALEAN: I do the supervising. I work together with my husband, one helper. We do three or four (phonetic) jobs. We take the jobs from Creative Tile Concepts, and they're very happy with the jobs that we do. And -- Page 7 January l5,2003 MR. DUNNE: I have a question, ma'am. MR. DICKSON: Go ahead. MR. DUNNE: When you do the work for Creative Tile, who are you doing the work -- what entity is doing the work? You're not -- I know you're not operating as a contractor now without a license, right? You're not doing that, right? MS. VALEAN: No, my husband has license from Broward County. We moved to Naples from Broward County, and he has one from Broward. MR. DUNNE: That's not such a good idea. MS. VALEAN: That's why I tried to pass one in Collier County. MR. DUNNE: Thank you. MR. DICKSON: And your experience is what? Not your husband, but yours. MS. VALEAN: I do grout. I supply the materials what they need and I supervise my helper sometimes, my husband's helper. MR. DICKSON: Okay. But what I'm asking specifically is what is your past experience? How long? MS. VALEAN: We did this kind of job for eight years since we came to the United States. I was working with my husband before I had the kids. MS. KELLER: I have a question. On the application on Page 3, question number nine, list all debts you or your company associated with you refused or failed to pay and reasons, and you answered it any. Maybe it's a language thing. MS. VALEAN: I don't understand the question. MR. DICKSON: Do you have -- MS. KELLER: She answered the question any. I don't know if she meant to say none. MR. DICKSON: Do you have any debts you've ever refused to pay? Page 8 January 15, 2003 MS. VALEAN: No. MR. CRAWFORD: I think the issue comes all the way back to the test, and I would like to be able to give you some good advice on how to take the test in Romanian, and I don't know if we can do that. Is that an option? I know we have this a lot. MR. NEALE: I think not. Just refer the board to the standards for-- in this kind of situation, since we haven't had the ordinance codified yet, it's Section 2.5.3 of the ordinance wherein it states that when an application is referred to the contractors' licensing board, the board shall take testimony from the applicant and consider other relevant evidence regarding whether the applicant meets the requirements of this ordinance. Upon the evidence presented by the applicant and the contractor licensing supervisor, the contractors' licensing board shall determine whether the applicant is qualified or unqualified for the trade in which the application has been made. Findings of fact and conclusions of law regarding the approval or denial of the application shall be made by the contractor licensing board. The board may consider the applicant's recent relevant experience in that specific trade, and based upon such experience may waive testing requirements, if convinced that the applicant is qualified by experience, whereby such competency testing would be superfluous. MR. CRAWFORD: So that gives us all the power in the world to issue a license. But I still go back to this is far below anything we've ever done. MR. BARIL: Mr. Chairman? What the counsel has told us is that we have to check your qualifications. Could you tell us again outside of grouting what your qualifications are? MS. VALEAN: You mean what-- MR. BARIL: What do you know about tile that we should give you a license without taking the test? What are your qualifications? Page 9 January 15, 2003 MS. VALEAN: Most of the time I do grout, I help with the grout. And like I say, supervising my husband's helper. MR. BARIL: Supervising? MS. VALEAN: Yes. I do the paperwork. MR. BARIL: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion of denial. MR. JOSLIN: I have one question first. If there's a license that's already held by your husband, from my understanding, in Broward County, does Broward reciprocate at all with Collier County? MR. BARTOE: I'm sorry? MR. JOSLIN: He has a Broward license for tile, her husband does. Does Broward have a reciprocation, or does -- do we reciprocate with Broward County for a license in tile and marble? MR. NEALE: We don't reciprocate with anyone. MR. JOSLIN: No. How did your husband get his license? MS. VALEAN: He got his through the board meeting, too. MR. JOSLIN: Did he take the test? MS. VALEAN: Yes, he take, but he fail, because his English is lower than mine. That's why this time I tried to pass it. MR. JOSLIN: I see. MR. DICKSON: Here's the problem we have. Number one, you don't have the qualifications for us to overlook the test. You don't have the experience for us to overlook the test. So that becomes a problem. Secondly, you're very close on the business and law. I have to believe that one more time you would pass the business/law. But forget business and law. Your experience does not meet the guidelines that we need on this board to waive your test on the tile and marble. You follow me? MS. VALEAN: Yes. MR. DICKSON: You understand? Page 10 January 15, 2003 MS. VALEAN: Yes. MR. DICKSON: So that's the mood that you're faced with on this board. Just because of the language barrier, we can't waive a test. We still have to know that if you go out there, you know what you're doing. I have a motion on the floor. Do I have a second? MR. GUITE': I'll second it. Guite'. MR. DICKSON: Okay, the motion is that we deny the application. All those in favor? Opposed? (No response.) MR. DICKSON: I'm sorry we couldn't be kinder to you, but we are -- we have a responsibility here on this board. So you are going to need to pass that test. MS. VALEAN: Okay. MR. DICKSON: Okay? MS. VALEAN: Thank you. MR. DICKSON: Thank you. MR. DUNNE: Mr. Chairman? MR. DICKSON: Yes. MR. DUNNE: I'd like to just follow up a little bit in the sense of create -- I don't know if the board has any power or not, but Creative Tile Concepts, a local company, it appears to be hiring unlicensed contractors in Collier County. And that's unacceptable, in my opinion. MR. NEALE: I have a feeling Mr. Ossorio has made notes of this. MR. DICKSON: We have a diligent individual that I don't even think I need to say anything. MR. DUNNE: I understand. I've been traveling too much lately. - MR. DICKSON: What we do do with other counties, though, Page 11 January 15, 2003 and we have done in the past, no, there's no reciprocity; however, if they come before this board and they have the experience and a good record and are licensed in another county, we've been very swift to approve them in this county. MR. JOSLIN: My question would have been, though, if her husband has a license and he's had a license in Broward County, maybe he should have been the one to come before the board. And with his license and his experience, quite honestly, they may have been able to be licensed. I don't know. Does the board agree? MR. DICKSON: Yeah. Moving on. MR. OSSORIO: Mr. Chairman? MR. DICKSON: Yes. MR. OSSORIO: I'd like to say something for the record. MR. DICKSON: Yes, sir. MR. OSSORIO: If you look under her documentation, it says she's exempt from Worker's Comp., but she stated on the record she did have a helper/employee. And we'll be talking to Creative that that about that as well. MR. DICKSON: Right. Michael Faulconer, are you present? I need to have you sworn in. (Speaker was duly sworn.) Would you come forward, MR. DICKSON: You would like us to waive the exam for the masonry license. Would you give us your reasoning for that? MR. FAULCONER: I have been in the masonry business since I graduated from Barron in 1990. I've worked for my father, who's been a contractor for around 26 years. He's retiring, and he's vouched for me to be a business owner, which I have been for almost two years now. I'm an instructor for the State of Florida for the Masonry Contractor Association, and that was two years prior to going in the business. I'm a graduate from the same course. I just didn't want to honestly spend the money on the books. I Page 12 January 15, 2003 hate to say it that way. I -- let me see here. During the course of me taking the apprenticeship program, I was three times state champion for the State of Florida. I went to Nashville, Tennessee, for the nationals. We also had a national here in, oh, what park was that? Right near the mall, Coastland Mall. I performed for the nationals there that we had locally. And I honestly am not a good test taker, to be honest. The qualifications, I can tell you whatever you want to hear, or whatever -- MR. DICKSON: Yeah, I see them in your packet. You have endless qualifications, and you also have a good credit report. What I'm faced with is just the fact you don't want to take the test, nor have you tried it. MR. FAULCONER: No, I have not. I teach with three other business owners and license holders, and I told them that I was going to go ahead and take the test, and all three of them said why don't you just go ahead and try to stand up in front of the board, see what they say. And that wasn't all three of them, I'm not telling the truth there, it was probably one of them that brought it to my attention. I asked the other two, they agreed, and that's why I'm here today. MR. DICKSON: And you're talking to the board except for three that all took the test. Personally? MR. FAULCONER: Yes, sir. MR. DICKSON: I don't look very favorably on this. MR. FAULCONER: Okay. MR. DICKSON: Only because -- and I have one vote. But now we have an individual who's fully qualified and just doesn't want to take the test. MR. FAULCONER: I understand. MR. JOSLIN: Not only that, we have an individual that's supposedly out training other people or working with other people in Page 13 January 15, 2003 the same industry? MR. FAULCONER: Yes. MR. JOSLIN: I make a motion that we deny the application. MR. DICKSON: Any second? MR. LLOYD: I just have one question. Have you taken the business and law test? MR. FAULCONER: No, I have not. MR. LLOYD: None of the tests? MR. FAULCONER: No, I have not. MR. DUNNE: I have a comment also, please. It seems that this gentleman, and what Mr. Neale told us before, is qualified. And I understand the position of some people not being real good test takers. And I recognize the chairman's point that it can be difficult for somebody that's definitely qualified that just doesn't want to take the test. I agree with you. MR. FAULCONER: Thank you. MR. DUNNE: That's all I have to say. MS. KELLER: But if you're not a good test taker, you don't know unless you take the test. MR. FAULCONER: I understand that totally. I just -- I'm not very good. I don't like to fail and I don't-- I personally didn't see, which is my opinion, to go ahead and take the test if I know that I'm qualified. That was an option to stand in front of the board. That's why I'm here to ask your approval. MR. CRAWFORD: We appreciate that. We've never approved such a thing in the past, and I don't think today's going to be the day to do it. So I'm going to second that motion. MR. GUITE': My comment would be that if you at least take the business and law and pass that, I'd feel more comfortable in granting him the license. But being that he is qualified, probably over qualified -- but business and law is like 50 percent of the work. MR. FAULCONER: I did have my accountant sent in, which I Page 14 January 15, 2003 don't know if that matters. MR. GUITE': But still, I think you ought to take the business and law. There's a lot involved in that. And you can get yourself in a lot of hot water by not following -- MR. JOSLIN: One of the reasons why I feel so strongly on this is that, like Mr. Dickson said, there are three other ones here on the board that did take the test, and we're not very good test takers either. MR. FAULCONER: I understand. MR. JOSLIN: And if we were to allow this to happen today, we could be set for everyone who walks in through this door-- MR. FAULCONER: I understand. MR. JOSLIN: -- wanting a license who just doesn't want to have to take the test. MR. DICKSON: I have a motion. Did you get the second? MR. CRAWFORD: Second from me. MR. DICKSON: And I have a second to deny the application. All those in favor? Opposed? (No response.) MR. CRAWFORD: I just wanted to be clear to Mr. Faulconer, did we tell him that he only had to take the business and law test? MR. LLOYD: No. MR. DICKSON: No. MR. CRAWFORD: We did not. MR. LLOYD: No, we recommend that you do it, especially if you're going to be the owner after your father steps aside. MR. FAULCONER: Well, I am the owner of the business now. He's a voucher for me with his license. MR. LLOYD: Right. And your license would be the one put forward if you got the license. MR. FAULCONER: Absolutely. MR. LLOYD: Take a chance, you might underestimate your Page 15 January 15, 2003 own abilities. MR. FAULCONER: Okay. MR. LLOYD: And you might discover that you can. MR. FAULCONER: Thank you very much. MR. DICKSON: If you pass the test, you don't have to come before this board. MR. FAULCONER: I'll come back and say hi anyway. MR. DICKSON: I've got to give you credit, I've been on this board 12 years, you're a first. MR. FAULCONER: For what, that is? MR. DICKSON: Twelve years, we never had anyone request that. MR. FAULCONER: I was just recommended -- not recommended by people, but I had other people come up to me and say go for it, why not. MR. DICKSON: Tell them-- MR. FAULCONER: But they were -- I'm sorry? MR. DICKSON: more. Okay. MR. OSSORIO: question, if possible. MR. MR. MR. well. Tell them bad advice, okay? So we don't have Mr. Chairman? I'd like to answer one Has the applicant ever been cited for a citation? FAULCONER: No. OSSORIO' Okay. DICKSON: Very good. Go knock the test out. Wish you MR. DICKSON: here? MR. OSSORIO: MR. DICKSON: MR. FAULCONER: Thank you. Old business. Mr. Poppa. And Mr. Poppa's Don't see him. I was going to say, he stood up but I didn't -- I remember Mr. Poppa. Therefore, Mr. Bartoe, would you like to take this over? Page 16 January 15, 2003 MR. BARTOE: In the order of the board and finding of facts on this case, which came before the board on July 17th, 2002, under the findings of fact -- or excuse me, under the order of the board, Mr. Poppa was ordered to pay $3,139.31 restitution to Marla Ottenstein. And item number three -- MR. CRAWFORD: By what date, Mr. Bartoe? MR. BARTOE: Item number three says should respondent fail to pay the restitution as ordered within 90 days, his certificate of competency shall be immediately suspended, which staff has done. Item number four, should respondent's license be suspended, as set out in three above, he shall be summoned to appear before the Contractors' Licensing Board at the next regularly scheduled meeting after that date. Then at a public hearing at that meeting, the board shall review evidence presented by the county and respondent to determine further licensing action. Such action may include all of the sanctions available to the board under Collier County Ordinance 90-105, as amended. MR. LLOYD: So the meeting today is the meeting that he should have appeared at? MR. CRAWFORD: He got a notice to appear. MR. LLOYD: He got a notice to appear; is that correct? MR. BARTOE: Yes. Certified mail. MR. CRAWFORD: So he received a letter and did not call in any reason not to be here. MR. BARTOE: I do not have anything with me to indicate whether he did or did not receive the mail. MR. DICKSON: But this was supposed to be paid, if I remember right, by the end of September? MR. BARTOE: Thirty days from July 17th -- October 17th. MR. DICKSON: All right. No, August 17th. MR. LLOYD: Ninety days. Page 17 January 15, 2003 MR. CRAWFORD: So for me it's two issues: One is the financial side. My understanding, Mr. Neale, is if the contractor didn't comply, the county legal department took action on whether or not they would file liens and do that kind of thing, which I understand is kind of out of our hands. MR. NEALE: Well, there's a couple of things that can be done, because of the way this order was written. A whole gamut of sanctions is thrown open to the board at this point. What was ordered at that time was restitution and suspension. Restitution, the county doesn't have an ability to stick its nose into. MR. CRAWFORD: Really? MR. NEALE: Because restitution is really a matter between the respondent and the complainant. And we ran into that with the roofing case, if you remember, when the contractor passed away. However, if the board does open -- the board does have the power to levy up to $5,000 in fines. Now, fines are a matter between the county and the respondent. So if the fines are levied, the county does have an ability to assist in collection of the fines. And Mr. Zachary may want to talk further on that. MR. CRAWFORD: So who forces the three thousand dollar restitution? MR. NEALE: The $3,000 has got to be between-- MR. CRAWFORD: She would have to take it to our own civil court. MR. NEALE: She'd have to take it to civil court. Because really, this has the effect of being an order that has to be enforced by someone other than the county. And since it's a fairly recent issue because of the other case, I've actually discussed this with the State Contractor Licensing Board and restitution is simply an order that has to be enforced by a civil court. However, fines are a different matter, and fines are something that the county actually imposes itself. It's an administrative remedy Page 18 January 15, 2003 at that point. MR. CRAWFORD: My concern is that that just doesn't give this board a whole lot of weight. MR. NEALE: You know, the board can impose a $5,000 fine, which the county could go after him on. MR. DICKSON: But what this board can do, correct me if I'm wrong, is we can revoke his license -- MR. NEALE: Permanently. MR. DICKSON: -- permanently. And we can also send notice of that to the state with a recommendation to take action against him on the east coast. The problem is, he lives in Miami, he's Dade County licensed as well, and he has no assets here. So that -- MR. BARTOE: He's also a tile and marble contractor that -- MR. NEALE: He's not state registered. MR. BARTOE: -- does not register with the state. MR. NEALE: Yeah, he's not registered with the state. MR. DICKSON: Oh, that's right. MR. NEALE: This board made no recommendation to the construction industry licensing board last time because they have no authority over it. MR. DICKSON: And we really don't do that between counties. MR. NEALE: No, and we -- the board could issue an order and we could distribute it to Dade and Broward County, just so that they are aware of this gentleman, but we have no authority to make a recommendation to them. MR. DICKSON: Or we can permanently suspend until the fine is paid. MR. NEALE: Permanently suspend or revoke. You know, you can permanently -- it's right now permanently suspended, subject to further order of the board. MR. LLOYD: Can we notify east coast in a letter of concern from our side without -- Page 19 January 15, 2003 MR. NEALE: Certainly. MR. LLOYD: We can just wait and see if they want to take action with regards to what information we give them? MR. NEALE: Yeah. Certainly the county attorney's office and my office could send letters of concern to the counsel for the construction industry licensing boards in Miami-Dade and in Broward County and let them know that this gentleman has had his license suspended, has failed to comply with an order. MR. DICKSON: Being that I would like -- our purpose is the protection of the citizens, I would like for some wonderful job to become available to this individual in Collier County, and the only way he can do it is to pay this woman the money he owes her. Whereas, if we revoke the license, instead of letting it stay suspended like it is now, we lose that opportunity. So, I mean, my recommendation is leave it permanently suspended in hopes that she will some day get paid and follow up with a letter of concern to Dade or Broward County. I think it was Dade County. MR. CRAWFORD: I agree. And then do we tack on an additional fine that our county could-- MR. NEALE: The board has -- MR. CRAWFORD: -- act upon? MR. NEALE: -- the ability to impose a fine of up to $5,000. MR. DICKSON: Okay, I can't make a motion so I'll leave it to your desires. MR. DUNNE: I'll make a motion. I make a motion to have Mr. Poppa's license permanently suspended with a $5,000 fine, and request that the county attorney contact the licensing boards in Dade and Broward counties, and recommend that they take similar action. MR. CRAWFORD: It's a great motion. My question is, is $5,000 the right amount? In my mind, $5,000 is the most we can Page 20 January 15, 2003 ever use, and to throw it all at a case that is relatively minor. I mean, it's a $3,000 tile problem, which is a big deal to Mrs. Ottenstein, but I'm thinking the fine ought to be closer to the amount of damage, perhaps. I'm thinking the fine ought to be in the $2,500 range. It's just my opinion. MR. LLOYD: What I want to do is say that the $5,000 is the maximum, but for a couple of reasons. First of all, he took no action to compensate the consumer, and so there should be some penalty for that. And the damages were around $3,000. We need to tell these people that they need to act towards the consumer, they need to pay them back. And so I think the $5,000 is appropriate. MR. DICKSON: Okay, I have a motion on the floor. MR. BARIL: And also for discussion purposes, I'd like to concur with what you just said. The -- I would have favored leniency if he would have appeared before this board. MS. RODGERS: And I would also like being on here as a representative to consumers to see a letter sent to the woman who was not getting her money, so if she decides to bring this to civil action, that she has this, and maybe recommendation to the board that she understands that this man has been fined, and this board has made -- that we're on her side. I think it's very important, 3,000 to a majority of the people in this county is a huge amount of money to be waiting for somebody who skips town, or however, he has left town. And for her to understand that we have taken action and that she has our support. MR. DICKSON: Mrs. -- is it Ostenstein? MR. JOSLIN: Ottenstein. MR. DICKSON: Ottenstein. She has been in communication with me on three or four different occasions. She's also talked to Mr. Bartoe and Mr. Nonnenmacher. She's fully -- we're keeping her fully aware, and she knew what her options were. And so that's why I pretty well said what I wanted to say, hoping that something would Page 21 January 15, 2003 happen to let her get her money back. MR. NEALE: If I may, just there's one other point, and Mr. Zachary brought it up, and I think it's important as you go forward to put forth this order. One of the other things this board can grant is reasonable legal investigative costs for the prosecution of the violation. While we don't have proof on the record at the point of those, should the county choose to go forward and obtain a judgment on the fine, there's going to be legal and administrative costs in getting that judgment, and I would recommend to the board that as part of the order recoupment of the legal and administrative costs also be imposed so that the county has the ability to not just get the fine but also get what it costs to collect that fine. MR. DICKSON: I'll tell you what let's do, state your motion again and amend it, if you want. MR. DLrNNE: Can I add to it, rather than -- I forget what the whole thing-- I can't do it verbatim. I would-- from the end of where I left off before, add Mr. Neale's comments that the county should pursue legal and administrative and investigative costs in addition to the fine -- are we clear on the fine, is it 5,000, 2,000 -- MR. DICKSON: You said 5,000. Okay, so I have a motion permanently to expend $5,000 fine and legal and administrative expenses on top of that. Do I have a second? MR. JOSLIN: Joslin, second. MR. DICKSON: Motion has been made and seconded. Do I have discussion? I'm only explaining why I'm going to vote no. I would like the fine to be less than 5,000. And I think Mr. Crawford made the same comment. Any other discussion? MR. CRAWFORD: I think they convinced me otherwise. I'm going to vote for it. Page 22 January 15, 2003 MR. DUNNE: I would just like to clarify one thing. A part of the motion was that the county -- that the board, maybe the chairman or somebody, write to the Dade County and the Broward County boards. I want to pull his license in every county the man works in. That's my goal. MR. DICKSON: The only trouble is, with his license and the way it is and not registered with the state, he has to have an infraction in those counties for them to take an action. MR. LLOYD: Mr. Neale, your office will send a letter of concern, quote, concern, to -- MR. NEALE: Either my office or the county attorney's office, and they carry more weight than the county attorney's office, frankly, so -- one other thing is that, and I should have probably given you the whole laundry list ahead of time, but that the board can get is a public reprimand, which would be probably in the nature of the letter that would be going to Dade and Broward County. So that's really, I would say, phrase it that way, that's a public reprimand to be specifically directed to enforcement agencies in Dade and Broward County. MR. DICKSON: Okay. So do you want to amend one more -- MR. DUNNE: Yes. MR. BARIL: Ed done it. MR. DICKSON: The motion's amended for a public reprimand. And the second, does that still apply? MR. JOSLIN: Yes. MR. seconded. MR. MR. MR. MS. MR. DICKSON: Okay. I've got the motion amended twice, All those in favor, signify by aye. DUNNE: Aye. CRAWFORD: Aye. BARIL: Aye. KELLER: Aye. JOSLIN: Aye. Page 23 January 15, 2003 MR. LLOYD: Aye. MS. RODGERS: Aye. MR. DICKSON: Opposed, one. MR. BARIL: Mr. Chairman, for discussion, I just wanted to ask if in that letter that we send to Dade County, to put them -- inform them of his financial obligations and the county's intent to pursue it, and maybe they would monitor this person. Because if he has financial obligations, he may have problems on his other jobs over there. And they as a contractor licensing board could be made aware of that, and that could -- that might give him the incentive to act on this in a positive way. MR. NEALE: Mr. Zachary and I will talk about it, but we'll make sure that they're fully informed of what he failed to comply with. MR. DICKSON: Just out of curiosity, Mr. Neale, are fines ever negotiated? MR. NEALE: I don't think we ever have. I think when the fine's there, the fine's there. MR. BARTOE: Never have. MR. DICKSON: That was my only reason. I'm just as upset with him as everyone else is, but $8,000 plus costs may keep him out of Collier County forever, which that's good in itself, it just doesn't help this consumer get her $3,000 back. MR. CRAWFORD: I would assume he could appear before the board and ask for that leniency. MR. DICKSON: Sure. MR. CRAWFORD: And my other question is which one takes priority? I guess they're two different types of fines. MR. NEALE: Two different, yeah. MR. DICKSON: Okay. No further new business? Do you have -- do you need to come before this board? I'm not aware of-- MR. NEALE: There's one more. Page 24 January 15, 2003 MR. BARTOE: Public hearings. MR. NEALE: Public hearing. MR. DICKSON: Oh, I'm sorry. It's on my list, if I'd just read it. You must be Mr. Farrell. Yes, sir, Mr. Farrell, would you come forward to the podium, please, and I need to have you sworn in. If you would state your full name. MR. FARRELL: Patrick Loren Farrell. (Speaker was duly sworn.) MR. DICKSON: Mr. Farrell, you received a citation for working without a license? MR. FARRELL: Correct. MR. DICKSON: And you would like to argue that and we are here to hear you. Go ahead. MR. BARTOE: Mr. Chairman, before we start, I'm sure you'll hear testimony from staff, so at this time, I believe we could swear Mr. Hoopingarner in. (Speaker was duly sworn.) MR. DICKSON: Welcome, Mr. Hoopingarner, good to meet yOU. MR. HOOPINGARNER: Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen of the board. Good morning. MR. DICKSON: I'm going to let him, since he issued the citation, let him go first and then I'll let you respond, okay? MR. FARRELL: Okay. MR. DICKSON: Mr. Hoopingarner. MR. HOOPINGARNER: Yeah, good morning, ladies and gentlemen of the board and staff. For the record, my name is James Hoopingarner. My last name is spelled H-O-O-P-I-N-G-A-R-N-E-R. I'm employed by Collier County as a contractor licensing compliance officer. We are here today, Mr. Farrell is contesting citation No. 1326. The background on that is on November 25th, the year 2002, I Page 25 January 15, 2003 was working with my partner, Michael Ossorio. We received a complaint from the Collier County Code Enforcement Department that an unlicensed painting contractor was working at the address of 11831 Quail Village Way. My partner and I did proceed to that location and did come in contact with Mr. Farrell, who was on the premises painting a house. We made contact with Mr. Farrell, identified ourselves who we were and why we were there, and asked Mr. Farrell if he was licensed for painting in Collier County, and he advised that no, he was not. He did advise that he was painting the home for the owner. At that time Mr. Farrell was advised that he would be issued a citation for painting without a license in Collier County, reference county Ordinance 2002-21. At that time Mr. Farrell was issued citation No. 1326, which he is contesting. MR. DICKSON: Can you tell me what he was specifically painting and the size and everything else? MR. HOOP1NGARNER: At the arrival, he had a ladder up against the house. The equipment, paint buckets were beside the home, and apparently he was painting the house. MR. DICKSON: Single-family detached residence? MR. HOOPINGARNER: Yes. MR. DICKSON: Was he by himself?. MR. HOOPINGARNER: Yes. MR. DICKSON: Okay, anyone else have any other questions? MR. JOSLIN: The exterior of the home then, right? MR. HOOPINGARNER: Yes, the exterior of the home. MR. DUNNE: Sir, are you also aware if the gentleman painted the inside of the house or only the outside? MR. HOOPINGARNER: As far as I know, only the outside. I did have con-- that day we were unable to make contact with the owner of the home, but at a later date I did contact Mrs. Lacy King, Page 26 January 15, 2003 and she advised that she did employ Mr. Farrell to paint her home. And previously at an earlier date he had painted half the home and now was back painting the rest of the home. MR. DUNNE: Thank you. MR. JOSLIN: Did by chance Mrs. King -- is that her name, the owner? MR. HOOPINGARNER: Mrs. King, yes. MR. JOSLIN: Did she have any kind of a contract or any type of an agreement with this gentleman to paint the home? MR. HOOPINGARNER: She advised that it was verbal, because she had known Mr. Farrell for quite a few years and he had worked for her in the past, so there was no written contract. MR. BARIL: Did you say that she employed Mr. Farrell? Was that your choice of words? Was that what she said? MR. HOOPINGARNER: Right, she hired him to paint her home. MR. DICKSON: Mr. Farrell, floor is yours. MR. FARRELL: Florida Statute 489-101 says the purpose of contracting legislature recognizes that construction and home improvement industries may pose a danger of significant harm to the public when incompetent or dishonest contractors provide unsafe, unstable short-lived products or services. Number one, Lacy King was not the one that called in the complaint, so she's not complaining about the work I was doing on her home. So therefore -- well, whatever. Florida Statute 489-103 says exemptions, section number nine: Any work or operation of a casual, minor or inconsequential nature which the aggregate contract price for labor, materials and all other items is less than $1,000. So the work performed was $900. This is void and it's exempt. I'm exempt from doing work if it's less than $1,000, according to the law. Now, if you think -- now, I don't work with anybody else, I Page 27 January 15, 2003 don't employ anybody else, and I do mostly pressure cleaning anyway. And this job was -- the complainant I believe was her neighbor who was playing golf and looked at the house, which is actually a duplex, and the second half of the duplex hasn't been painted yet and it's old and faded so it looks a little different. So he was griping because it looked different. But the neighbor is getting her house painted very soon, according to Lacy King. She talked to me yesterday and she talked with the architectural review committee. And apparently up on the roof there's chimneys, and the chimneys look different. Now, I didn't even go up on the roof to paint the chimney. But this individual complained. He has a grudge against me because I got dirt on his windows when I was pressure cleaning his neighbor, so he decided to call. So number one, Lacy King is not complaining about my work. Lacy King has hired me several times over the years to do small handyman jobs. And number two, the work is less than $1,000. So this is void and this is not valid, according to law. Now, if you think-- now, I tried getting a painting license. I went through the steps to get -- and there's a book this thick about business law, it has nothing to do with putting paint on a wall. I tried it and forget it, I'm just not doing it. I don't have employees and I don't need it. Several years ago, Lee County sheriffs tried to impose a law upon me. The result is a $25 million federal civil rights lawsuit that's in the court system. I also initiated a $400 million lawsuit against the Hari Krishna religious cult which has gone bankrupt, and several people have gone to jail for trying to impose law upon me. You think practicing painting without a license is bad, I practice law without a license, because I represent myself. This is void, I'm not going to pay it. And if you impose a law upon me, I'll have no recourse but to file state and federal lawsuits over the matter against everyone. Because according to the law, this Page 28 January 15, 2003 is void. If it was over $1,000, it would be valid. It's not. MR. DICKSON: Okay, let me ask you a question, since you're -- first of all, I don't appreciate your threats against this board. MR. FARRELL: Well, see, if you understood what I've been through the last several years, you'd understand. And I apologize if I'm aggressive, but I've lost $50,000 by being accused of something I didn't do by the actual perpetrator of a crime, and I just really have just had it. MR. DICKSON: And we don't care about those other things. We were looking at one citation. MR. FARRELL: I know that. MR. DICKSON: We treated you very congenially and you started off with threats. So now you are aggressive, we will be aggressive. MR. FARRELL: Okay. MR. DICKSON: You expect us to think that you can paint a duplex or a single-family residence for $900.9 MR. FARRELL: yes. MR. DICKSON: house? MR. FARRELL: I only painted the exterior walls of one side, You're just going to paint one side of the That's what I did, because it-- being a duplex, the second person wasn't interested in painting the whole thing. She wanted to piecemeal it, and she didn't ask me to paint it. The second thing is, most of those homes in that neighborhood use Porter paint. Porter paint is a company that for some bizarre reason, like a lot of paint companies, they end up having mistinted paint or damaged paint cans and things like this and they have hundreds of gallons of paint. I get that paint for $1.00 a gallon, versus 15 to $20 a gallon. So I just saved hundreds of dollars on the paint. So yes, I'm such a nice guy that I pass my savings on to the customer. So yes, I can paint that for $900, because number one, I'm Page 29 January 15, 2003 very efficient, I have a method of painting a house that is extremely efficient, all right? I pass the savings on that I get from the paint. I don't employ anybody else and, quite frankly, if I can make $900 in a week, I think that's pretty good. MR. DUNNE: We're just supposed to take your word that it's $900 and less than 1,000, or do you have any proof?. MR. FARRELL: Ask Lacy. MR. DUNNE: I'm not asking her, I'm asking you. And don't have an attitude with me. So do you have any evidence or -- yeah, this is my name, right here, pal. Do you have any evidence of how much it cost? MR. FARRELL: There was a written invoice. MR. DUNNE: Can you provide us with that? MR. FARRELL: I don't have it today. MR. ZACHARY: Mr. Chairman, I would just want to add that when you read this statute, we don't need to get hung up on $1,000, because it says and inconsequential, minor or casual. So I would argue that painting a house is not inconsequential. So we don't need to -- if it's $500, it's still not inconsequential, and we don't need to get hung up on $1,000. MR. FARRELL: That's an interpretation. MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Zachary, for my education -- MR. ZACHARY: And that's a legal interpretation from a lawyer. MR. CRAWFORD: Right, that's what I mean, a lawyer. He's quoting Statute 489. MR. ZACHARY: 489-103. MR. CRAWFORD: How does that interact with our local ordinance? MR. ZACHARY: Well, we don't have a thousand dollar limit in the local ordinance. MR. NEALE: But we incorporate 489. Page 30 January 15, 2003 MR. BARIL: Mr. Chairman, I have a question for staff. Does Mr. Farrell have a handyman license or a pressure cleaning license? MR. BARTOE: I have no idea. You might ask Mr. Farrell. MR. BARIL: Mr. Farrell, do you have a handyman license or occupational license for Collier County? MR. FARRELL: I did get one. I don't know when the date -- I think it's an annual renewal requirement? MR. BARIL: They renew on September 30th. So do you have one that was in effect on this date? MR. FARRELL: Well, I wasn't pressure cleaning, I was painting there. MR. BARIL: The day you were pressure cleaning, did you have an occupational license? MR. FARRELL: I was painting, not pressure cleaning there. MR. JOSLIN: Mr. Farrell, you stated a few minutes ago that you were pressure cleaning because you got some splash on the other person's window. MR. FARRELL: That was like a year ago. And he's had this grudge. I may be incorrect to say that he is the person who called, but I saw him talking to someone from the architectural review committee the same day these gentlemen were out there. So I believe Mr. LaPonte was the person who complained. But that was quite a while ago when my license was in effect. MR. BARTOE: Mr. Baril, I might clarify a little. Collier County occupational licensing has no handyman license. The closest they have to that would be something that you might be able to refer to is a handyman. It states that it is for miscellaneous services, and then in parentheses it says no contracting areas. MR. DICKSON: Okay, let's get focused. MR. DUNNE: Can I ask one more question, Mr. Chairman? MR. DICKSON: Let me focus this. We are here for a citation, a citation only. Citation was issued, the individual says he doesn't Page 31 January 15, 2003 have a license. We've been given legal interpretations of the Florida state statute. So let's keep the questions on that, and let's not go to other licenses. I want to deal just with -- MR. NEALE: Okay, this particular matter comes under Florida Statute 489.127 wherein it is the requirement that the respondent, the person to whom the citation has been issued, must show that the citation is invalid. So they have to provide evidence to show that. But the $1,000 is not at issue, correct? But it's part of that statute, sir. Our interpretation from our legal staff is MR. DICKSON: MR. FARRELL: MR. DICKSON: different than yours. MR. FARRELL: causes problems. MR. DICKSON: of Florida. Do I MR. MR. MR. That's what I mean. Interpretations are what Yeah, and our attorney is licensed by the State have any other questions? Do I have a motion? DUNNE: Motion to-- what would-- DICKSON: Motion that the citation be enforced. DUNNE: Yes. MR. DICKSON: Do I have a second? MR. JOSLIN: Joslin, second. MR. DICKSON: stand and be enforced. Opposed? (No response.) MR. DICKSON: MR. FARRELL: MR. DICKSON: Motion's been made that the citation will All those in favor? It's unanimous. See you in court. Thank you. MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Neale, how does this work from an enforcement standpoint? He doesn't have a license, so we have no leverage on him. $300 is not a lot of money in Collier County. MR. NEALE: Under this section of the statute, you actually do Page 32 January 15, 2003 have quite a bit of leverage on him. Because this citation, the order on this citation will be recorded in the public records of Collier County. It will constitute a lien against all of his property. MR. CRAWFORD: That automatically happens? That's not a pick and choose -- MR. NEALE: If he doesn't pay it within a finite period of time -- now, he does have the option of paying it within a finite period of time, and then the lien is dissolved. However, if he does (sic), then he's got a lien on his property. If the county chooses, they can enforce the lien, or if he ever tries to get a credit report or anything else, that lien will show. Is there any liability for the person who's hiring MS. KELLER: him? MR. NEALE: MS. KELLER: Yeah, there is. I mean, the -- Is that something -- MR. CRAWFORD: That's a buyer beware issue. MR. NEALE: It's a buyer beware issue, though, to some extent. I mean, it's an education issue, and this board has done a-- tried to do everything they could to advise the public that they need to check for licenses and not just occupational licenses, but competency cards and things like that. It's an effort that the board and the enforcement staff makes on a regular basis. But unfortunately people are often tempted by the cheap, and that's what happens an awful lot in this town. Somebody comes in with a competency -- instead of a competency card says sure, I'm licensed, I've got an occupational license and proceeds to do contracting, and then Mr. Ossorio finds out and they end up here. So it's unfortunate for the homeowner and for the -- MS. KELLER: MR. NEALE: imposed is a fine. MS. KELLER: But there are no fines or-- Oh, there are fines. That's what you've just But for-- Page 33 January 15, 2003 MR. NEALE: Oh, for the homeowner? Not really. You know, unless they knowingly do it. And then they can be brought forward on these same kind of charges. 489-127 will apply there also. If you knowingly hire someone who's a non-contractor to do contracting work, you can be fined, too. MR. JOSLIN: But it seems like this case will apply, because according to Mr. Hoopingarner, this was a friend of hers? MR. NEALE: We'll let Mr. Ossorio sort that one out. MR. OSSORIO: It could be up to a $5,000 fine if you hire him. If you knowingly hire an unlicensed contractor, it's a civil penalty. It's done by the State of Florida, by DPR. MR. JOSLIN: It seems like she would have known that then, if this is supposed to have been a friend of hers and she hires him to do work, and knowing he's not a licensed contractor. MR. OSSORIO: What typically happens is that yeah, he's doing handyman work for a period of time, for years, and then all of a sudden a license -- you need a plumber, you need a painter or you need something, you call this gentleman up and he does the work. So that's what happens typically. It starts out as handyman work. As he stated, I was doing pressure cleaning, then it turned into something in a different -- it happens on any type of trade, electrical, plumbing, mechanical. MR. HOOPINGARNER: Mr. Chairman, if I may add to that, during my conversation with Mrs. Love (sic), I did explain to her, she's an elderly lady, completely unaware of the circumstances reference a state competency license being required for the painting and so forth. I did advise her. She also advised that she had him do previous roof work a few years ago. So she is aware of it. And I went through the procedures and explained to her that they have to be licensed to do the work. She is aware of it now, but at the time she was unaware. MR. DICKSON: I know Mrs. King personally. She is a grand, Page 34 January 15, 2003 MR. MR. would all MR. last year. grand lady that's involved in every charitable organization in this town, and she would not do anything like this. MR. NEALE: Yeah, I know Mrs. King, too. MR. DICKSON: She knows everyone in this town. She's a wonderful person. MR. DUNNE: Maybe he was going to sue her, too. MR. DICKSON: Moving on, we have new business, or discussion regarding Sunshine Law; is that correct, Mr. Bartoe? MR. CRAWFORD: We covered that. BARTOE: That was covered while you were out, so -- CRAWFORD: The first one's this Friday. I told him we get back to him individually. DICKSON: Do we have to do this once a year? We did it MR. CRAWFORD: It was explained to me it's not mandatory but highly recommended. MR. BARTOE: I did not realize that some of the members here might have had this last year. I know at one time the county attorney's office was going to appear before each board and discuss it, and that got canceled. I had them on the agenda at one time and it got canceled. MR. DICKSON: It was last February, and you were calling us, and we had two different opportunities to attend at two different times, and it was regarding Sunshine. Which I highly recommend that you all do, because it -- it will shock you. Two of you cannot be in someone's home or out to dinner and discuss the activities of this board, because if two of you talk about this board outside of this room, you're in violation of the Florida Sunshine laws. It's quite strict. So I would highly recommend that you all do go. MR. LLOYD: And at that meeting, at that presentation, they gave us a packet, a rather thick collection of things, as I recall, because it was in here and the young lady and the gentleman made Page 35 January 15, 2003 the presentation. So some of us have already done it within the year. MR. BARTOE: I must have not attended that meeting. MR. LLOYD: I don't remember you being here. MR. BARTOE: Thank you for helping me. MR. DICKSON: But it is an interesting meeting, and you all understand, it opened my eyes as to what public officials have to go through. And it seems like every time a charge comes up, it's Sunshine. Even the new school board up in Lee County, that's one of the charges they came up with last night that they're looking into is Sunshine. MR. JOSLIN: That's why we don't go to lunch anymore, huh? MR. DICKSON: Yeah, you cannot talk about what goes on here outside of this room. One thing I would like to request of county, Mr. Bartoe, each year 2,000 -- each year we get a list of the dates of each monthly meeting. Could we get that again? MR. BARTOE: For 2003? MR. DICKSON: Yes, sir. MR. BARTOE: I thought you had it, but I can do that. MR. DICKSON: That's really nice to have to look at, as we plan schedules through the year. I know it's supposed to be the second Wednesday of every month. MR. BARTOE: Third. MR. DICKSON: Third Wednesday, excuse me. But that's not always the case because of conflicts with scheduling this room. MR. BARTOE: As of right now for 2003, we are scheduled the third Wednesday. We had trouble with today because we forgot to get ahold of them quick enough, and they scheduled someone else. But we have until 1:30 today, and I'm sure we'll be out of here. MR. DICKSON: Okay. We have a new member on the board that hasn't been recognized? MR. LLOYD: No, the two ladies were here. Page 36 January 15, 2003 MR. DICKSON: Oh, you were both here last week (sic), yes. And our multi-lingual representative here. MR. NEALE: I do have one brief heads-up for the board, is we're in the process of preparing an order form for waivers, credit reports and those kind of things where you'll have a form in your packet, it will be sort of a fill-in-the-blanks checkoff so that when you do your findings of fact, conclusions of law and those, you'll have the standards in front of you and also have just a space to fill in, so that it will make it simple by reviewing those a little bit, and actually have something on the record, written record. MR. DICKSON: Wonderful. Anyone else have any new business? Next meeting is February the 19th. MR. BARIL: Motion to adjourn. MR. DICKSON: Anybody know that they can't be here for that meeting? It's wonderful to have a full board. I've got a motion to adjourn. MR. DUNNE: Second, Dunne. MR. DICKSON: Second. All those in favor? (Unanimous vote of ayes.) MR. DICKSON: Good-bye. Thank you. There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 10:10 a.m.) COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTING LICENSING BOARD LES DICKSON, CHAIRMAN Page 37 January 15, 2003 Transcript prepared on behalf of Gregory Court Reporting Service, Inc., by Cherie' R. Nottingham. Page 38