BCC Minutes 12/17/2002 RDecember 17, 2002
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Naples, Florida, December 17, 2002
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Board of County
Commissioners, in and for the County of Collier, and also acting as
the Board of Zoning Appeals and as the governing board(s) of such
special district as has been created according to law and having
conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m., in
REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex,
East Naples, Florida, with the following members present:
CHAIRMAN: Jim Coletta
Frank Halas
Donna Fiala
Fred W. Coyle
Tom Henning
ALSO PRESENT: Jim Mudd, County Manager; and David
Weigel, County Attorney.
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COLLIER COUNTY
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
AGENDA
December 17, 2002
9:00 a.m.
NOTICE: ALL PERSONS WISHING TO SPEAK ON ANY AGENDA ITEM
MUST REGISTER PRIOR TO SPEAKING. SPEAKERS MUST REGISTER
WITH THE COUNTY MANAGER PRIOR TO THE PRESENTATION OF THE
AGENDA ITEM TO BE ADDRESSED.
COLLIER COUNTY ORDINANCE NO. 99-22 REQUIRES THAT ALL
LOBBYISTS SHALL, BEFORE ENGAGING IN ANY LOBBYING ACTIVITIES
(INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ADDRESSING THE BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS), REGISTER WITH THE CLERK TO THE
BOARD AT THE BOARD MINUTES AND RECORDS DEPARTMENT.
REQUESTS TO ADDRESS THE BOARD ON SUBJECTS WHICH ARE NOT ON
THIS AGENDA MUST BE SUBMITTED IN WRITING WITH EXPLANATION
TO THE COUNTY MANAGER AT LEAST 13 DAYS PRIOR TO THE DATE OF
THE MEETING AND WILL BE HEARD UNDER "PUBLIC PETITIONS".
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD
WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO,
AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD
OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE
TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
ALL REGISTERED PUBLIC SPEAKERS WILL BE LIMITED TO FIVE (5)
MINUTES UNLESS THE TIME IS ADJUSTED BY THE CHAIRMAN.
IF YOU ARE A PERSON WITH A DISABILITY WHO NEEDS ANY
ACCOMMODATION IN ORDER TO PARTICIPATE IN THIS PROCEEDING,
YOU ARE ENTITLED, AT NO COST TO YOU, TO THE PROVISION OF
CERTAIN ASSISTANCE. PLEASE CONTACT THE COLLIER COUNTY
FACILITIES MANAGEMENT DEPARTMENT LOCATED AT 3301 EAST
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December 17, 2002
TAMIAMI TRAIL, NAPLES, FLORIDA, 34112, (239) 774-8380; ASSISTED
LISTENING DEVICES FOR THE HEARING IMPAIRED ARE AVAILABLE IN
THE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' OFFICE.
LUNCH RECESS SCHEDULED FOR 12:00 NOON TO 1:00 P.M.
INVOCATION AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
AGENDA AND MINUTES
Approval of today's regular, consent and summary agenda as amended. (Ex
Parte Disclosure provided by Commission members for summary agenda.)
November 19, 2002 - Regular Meeting
SERVICE AWARDS
A. Twenty-Year Attendee:
1) Helen Ortega, Emergency Medical Services
B. Twenty-Five Year Attendee:
1) Larry Henry, Transportation Operations
PROCLAMATIONS
Proclamation to recognize Saturday, December 21, 2002, as National
Homeless Persons' Awareness Day. To be accepted by Mr. George
Drobinski, District Director of Catholic Charities of Collier County and
Mary Soucek, Chairwomen of the Hunter and Homeless Coalition.
PRESENTATIONS
PUBLIC PETITIONS
Ae
Public Petition request from Mr. Tor Kolflat to discuss Grey Oaks Exclusion
from Livingston Road Beautification Phase II MSTU.
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December 17, 2002
7. BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS
Ae
This item requires that all participants be sworn in and ex parte
disclosure be provided by Commission members. VA-2002-AR-2705,
Steven Jacobs, of Tristar Development of Naples, LLC, requesting a 10-foot
variance from the required 20-foot front yard setback to 10 feet for property
located at 4800 Yacht Harbor Drive, further described as Lot 1.1, Tract M,
Windstar Subdivision, in Section 14, Township 50 South, Range 25 East,
Collier County, Florida.
ADVERTISED PUBLIC HEARINGS
This item has been continued from the November 5~ 2002 BCC Meeting.
This item requires that all participants be sworn in and ex parte
disclosure be provided by Commission members. RZ-2001-AR-1649,
Robert L. Duane, of Hole Montes, Inc., representing Craig D. Timmins,
Trustee, requesting a rezone from RSF-3 to C-1 for property located South
of Immokalee Road on the East Side of Veterans Park Drive, in Section 26,
Township 48 South, Range 25 East, Collier County, Florida.
B. This item has been deleted.
This item has been continued from the November 19, 2002 BCC
Meeting. This item requires that all participants be sworn in and ex pane
disclosure be provided by Commission members. Petition DOA-2002-AR-
2567, Robert Mulherc of RWA, Inc., representing J.E.D. of Southwest
Florida, Inc., and Colony Corporate Center, Inc., requesting an Amendment
to the "Pelican Marsh" Development of Regional Impact (DRI), for the
purpose of increasing the allocation of medical office space allowed from
9,000 square feet to 26,000 square feet within the approved overall general
office leasable floor area of 295,888 square feet and to correct a Scrivener's
Error contained within the development order for property located North of
Vanderbilt Beach Road (CR 901) and East of Livingston Road, in Sections
25, 27, 34, 35 and 36, Township 48 South, Range 25 East, and Section 31,
Township 48 South, Range 26 East, Collier County, Florida.
This item has been continued from the November 19, 2002 BCC
Meeting. This item requires that all participants be sworn in and ex pane
disclosure be provided by Commission members. Petition PUDA-2002-AR-
2566, Robert Mulhere of RWA, Inc., representing J.E.D. of Southwest
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December 17, 2002
Florida, Inc., and Colony Corporate Center, Inc., requesting an Amendment
to the "Pelican Marsh" Planned Unit Development (PUD), for the purpose of
increasing the allocation of medical office space allowed from 9,000 square
feet to 26,000 square feet within the approved overall general office leasable
floor area of 295,888 square feet for property located North of Vanderbilt
Beach Road (CR 901) and East of Livingston Road, in Sections 25, 27, 34,
35 and 36, Township 48 South, Range 25 East, and Section 31, Township 48
South, Range 26 East, Collier County, Florida.
This item has a Time Certain of 10:00 a.m. This item has been
F®
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continued from the December 3~ 2002 BCC Meeting. An Ordinance
creating the South 8th Street/Doak Avenue Municipal Service Taxing and
Benefit Unit; providing the authority; providing for the creation; providing a
purpose and governing body; providing for annual estimates of expenses,
taxation not to exceed .5 MILS of Ad Valorem Taxes per year and
Assessment Rate; providing for the collection of Taxes and Assessments;
providing for conflict and severability; providing for inclusion in the Collier
County Code of Laws and Ordinances; providing for an effective date.
This item has a Time Certain and will be heard immediately following
Item 8E. This item has been continued from the December 3~ 2002 BCC
Meeting. An Ordinance creating the Little League Road/Trafford Farm
Road Municipal Service Taxing and Benefit Unit; providing the authority,
providing for the creation; providing a purpose and governing body;
providing for annual estimates of expenses; taxation not to exceed .5 MILS
of Ad Valorem Taxes per year and Assessment Road; providing for the
collection of Taxes and Assessments; providing for conflict and severability;
providing for inclusion in the Collier County Code of Laws and Ordinances;
providing for an effective date.
This item has been continued from the November 19, 2002 BCC
Meeting. This item requires that all participants be sworn in and ex part,
disclosure be provided by Commission members. Petition PUDA-01-AR-
431, James G. O'Gara, representing Park East Development Ltd., requesting
a rezone from "PUD" Planned Unit Development to PUD for the purpose of
amending the Founders Plaza PUD to allow additional small-scale retail land
uses only on those parcels that exceed 150 feet in depth for property located
on the North and South sides of Golden Gate Parkway (CR 886) and at the
Santa Barbara Canal Crossing in Section 28, Township 49 South, Range 26
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December 17, 2002
East, Collier County, Florida.
This item has a Time Certain of 1:00 p.m. Consideration of an Ordinance
that establishes a Collier County Human Relations Commission.
e
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
Ae
Appointment of member to the Ochopee Fire Control District Advisory
Committee.
B. Appointment of member to the Library Advisory Board.
CJ
Appointment of members to the Golden Gate Beautification Advisory
Committee.
10.
11.
COUNTY MANAGER'S REPORT
As
Adopt a Resolution authorizing Condemnation of Fee Simple Title Interests
and/or those perpetual or temporary easement interests required for the
construction of a six-lane section of Golden Gate Parkway between
Livingston Road and Santa Barbara Boulevard (Capital Improvement
Element No. 74, Project No. 60027). Estimated Fiscal Impact: $4,179,000.
(Norman Feder, Administrator, Transportation)
Be
Adopt a Resolution authorizing Condemnation of Right-of-Way and/or
Easements required for the construction of a four-lane section of Immokalee
Road between Wilson Boulevard and CR 951/Collier Boulevard (Capital
Improvement Element No. 71, Project No. 60018). Estimated Fiscal Impact
$5,434,100. (Norman Feder, Administrator, Transportation)
Ce
Approve the Award and Subsequent Construction Contract for the North
County Water Reclamation Facility Expansion to 24.1-Million Gallons Per
Day Maximum Month Average Daily Flow, to Low Bidder, Encore
Construction Company, Project 73950, Bid 02-3418, in the base bid amount
of $24,861,000. (Jim DeLony, Administrator, Public Utilities)
PUBLIC COMMENTS ON GENERAL TOPICS
12. COUNTY ATTORNEY'S REPORT
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December 17, 2002
13. OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
14. AIRPORT AUTHORITY
15. STAFF AND COMMISSION GENERAL COMMUNICATIONS
16. CONSENT AGENDA - All matters listed under this item are considered to be
routine and action will be taken by one motion without separate discussion of each
item. If discussion is desired by a member of the Board, that item(s) will be
removed from the Consent Agenda and considered separately.
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT & ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES
1)
Recommendation to approve Commercial Excavation Permit No.
59.838/AR-3388 "Ron Beaver Commercial Excavation", located in
Section 21, Township 48 South, Range 28, East; bounded on the
North by 31st Avenue NE Right-of-Way, on the West by DeSoto
Boulevard Right-of-Way, on the East by Vacant Agriculture Zoning,
and on the South by Vacant Estates Zoning.
2)
Approval of the Satisfaction of Lien for Code Enforcement Case No.
2000100019 styled Board of County Commissioners Collier County,
Florida vs. Philip Carlton, Jr., regarding violation of Ordinances No.
99-51 of the Collier County Land Development Code.
3) Code Enforcement Lien Resolution approvals.
4)
Petition AVESMT2002-AR2788 to vacate, renounce and disclaim a
portion of the easement recorded by separate instrument in the Public
Records of Collier County, Florida. Located in Section 28, Township
48 South, Range 26 East, Collier County, Florida.
5)
Request to approve for recording the final plat of"Tract M of
Windstar Replat".
6)
Request to grant final acceptance of the roadway, drainage, water and
sewer improvements for the final plat of "Pelican Marsh Unit
Eleven".
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December 17, 2002
7)
8)
9)
10)
11)
12)
13)
Request to approve for recording the final plat of"Montreux Unit
Two at Fiddler's Creek".
Approval of the Satisfaction of Lien for Code Enforcement Board
Case No. 2001-078 styled Board of County Commissioners Collier
County, Florida vs. Ricky L. Bell regarding violation of Section(s)
2.7.6 par. (1 & 5) of ordinance No. 91-102, the Collier County Land
Development Code and Section(s) 104.1.1,105.5, 106.3.1 of
ordinance No. 98-76, the Collier County Building Construction
Administrative Code.
Approval of the Satisfaction of Lien for Code Enforcement Board
Case No. 2001-062 styled Board of County Commissioners Collier
County, Florida vs. B.F. Ft. Myers Inc., regarding violation of
Sections 2.4.3.6,2.4.3.7 and 3.9.3 of Ordinance No. 91-102, as
amended of the Collier County Land Development Code.
Approve $21,200 in Capital and $7,200 in Operating Costs to fund the
Broadcast of Channel 16, the Collier County Government Access
Channels, to the AOL/Time Warner Cable System in Immokalee.
Adopt Resolution designating the new Tourism Marketing Office of
Collier County Government as the Greater Naples, Marco Island, and
the Everglades Convention and Visitors Bureau.
Approve two Lease Agreements with C.P.O.C. Realty for office space
to be occupied by Community Development and Environmental
Services Division Staff and County Attorney Legal Staff at an annual
rent and common maintenance fee of $60,370.
The Board of County Commissioners acting as the Community
Redevelopment Aeency: **Note: The Lee County Electric
Cooperative (LCEC) is still reviewing the proposed CDBG contract
between LCEC and the Collier County Community Redevelopment
Agency (CRA). Attached is the contract as forwarded to LCEC for
review. The original signed copy from LCEC should be present for
Commission Fiala's signature at the December 17, 2002 hearing.**
Recommendation that the Collier County Community Redevelopment
Agency (CRA) approve and authorize CRA Chairperson to sign an
Agreement with Lee County Electric Cooperative (LCEC) for the
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December 17, 2002
installation and/or upgrade of approximately 45 streetlights in
Immokalee using $60,000 of Collier County's Community
Development Block Grant (CDBG) Funding.
14)
Approval of First Amendment to Tourism Agreement with Kelley
Swofford Roy, Inc., to include FY02/03 Marketing and Advertising
Budget in the amount of $602,000.00, as recommended by the Tourist
Development Council.
TRANSPORTATION SERVICES
1)
Request Board approval for the Landscape Maintenance Agreement
with FP&L for the future landscaping and maintenance along the
West side of Livingston Road and North side of Golden Gate Parkway
adjacent to the Florida Power and Light Substation.
2)
Request the Board approve the donation of four decorative light poles
by the Bayshore Beautification MSTU to the Naples Botanical
Garden.
3)
Approve Selection Committee ranking of consulting firms and
subsequent contract negotiations for professional design and
engineering services for 4-lane road improvements to Rattlesnake
Hammock Road between Polly Avenue and Collier Boulevard,
Project No. 60169, RFP 03-3446.
4)
Approve Developer Contribution Agreement with G.L. Hardy, Ltd.
As developer for road impact credits and vesting rights in exchange
for the design and construction of the Northward Extension of Logan
Boulevard. All rights to developer under the Developer Contribution
Agreement are subject to developer complying with all conditions of
the agreement imposed by the County.
5)
Approve Professional Services Agreement No. 02-3398 in the amount
of $1,404,387.00 for Design and Engineering Services to be provided
by CH2M Hill, Inc., for roadway improvements to Collier Boulevard,
between Golden Gate Boulevard and Immokalee Road, Project No.
65061.
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December 17, 2002
6)
7)
8)
9)
10)
11)
i2)
Approve Third Developer Contribution Agreement with Long Bay
Partners, LLC to amend the area in the original agreement.
Approve an Easement Agreement and accept an Access Easement
with Keith and Deborah Kinkor, which is required for periodic
maintenance of the Golden Gate Main Canal under the Bridge
constructed at 13th Street SW. Fiscal Impact $5,100.00. Project No.
69068.
Approve an Easement Agreement and accept an Access Easement
with Joan M. Kinkor, which is required for periodic maintenance of
the Golden Gate Main Canal under the Bridge constructed at 13th
Street SW. Fiscal Impact $5,100.00. Project No. 69068.
Approve a Supplemental Agreement for the Local Agency Program
(LAP) Agreement with the Florida Department of Transportation
(FDOT) to add multiple-year funding verbiage as requested by the
FDOT and to modify the Agreement to provide a combination of
sidewalks and paved shoulders at no additional expense to the County.
Recommendation to approve the purchase of eight (8) diesel powered
riding mowers for the Road Maintenance Department from State
Contract 3515-630-00-1 in the amount of $107,875.44.
Board approval to utilize insurance proceeds, transit enhancement
funds and federal transit administration funding to purchase three new
transit buses and reject award of Bid//02-3428.
A Resolution of the Collier County Commissioners authorizing the
execution of a Joint Participation Agreement (JPA) with the Florida
Department of Transportation for Section 5311 (Operating
Assistance) Funds.
PUBLIC UTILITIES
1)
Approve Relocation Agreement with Florida Power and Light
Company related to South County Water Reclamation Facility
Expansion, in the amount of $6,116, Project 73949.
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December 17, 2002
2)
3)
4)
5)
6)
Adopt a Resolution and grant a Conservation Easement to the Florida
Department of Environmental Protection required for the South
County Water Reclamation Facility Expansion at a cost not to exceed
$50.00, Project No. 73949.
Amend Work Order CDM-FT-01-02 for Utility Engineering Services
related to improving wellfield reliability in the amount of $83,000,
Project 70066.
Award Contract to construct the North County Water Reclamation
Facility Deep Injection Well Pump Station, Bid #03-3442, Project
73948, in the amount of $4,740,000.
Approve a Construction Work Order for the relocation of water and
sewer mains related to the Florida Department of Transportation's
widening of U.S. 41 from Barefoot Williams Road to East of SR 951
in the amount of $308,533.00.
Approve a Budget Amendment for Engineering Services related to the
design and permitting of County Beach Renourishment, Project
90527, in the amount of $635,000.
PI. JBLIC SERVICES
1)
Award of Bid #03-3437 for rental of portable toilets to Waste
Management of Collier County, Inc.
2)
Award Bid #03-3461 in the amount of $62,850 to Finishing by Baker,
Inc. for resurfacing of the main pool at Golden Gate Aquatic
Complex.
3)
Award Work Order PBS-02-09 in the amount of $97,053 to
Professional Building Systems, Inc., for the renovation of Caxambas
Boat Ramp and the removal and restoration of the Collier Boulevard
Boat Ramp.
4)
Approve a Budget Amendment to ensure continuous funding of the
Older Americans Act Grant.
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December 17, 2002
5)
6)
Approve an Emergency Medical Services (EMS) County Grant,
County Grant Distribution Form, and a Resolution for Training Data
Collection Equipment, Computer Software, and Medical/Rescue
Equipment.
Approve the Budget Amendment to the Older Americans Act Grant
Contract.
E®
ADMINISTRATIVE SERVICES
1) To Award Bid #03-3443 for purchase and delivery of bottled drinking
water at an annual cost of $35,000.
2) Award Contract for Management Services for Pelican Bay Services
Division pursuant to RFP #02-3411, in the annual amount of $48,000.
3) Award Bid #03-3426 for Quick Copy Services, estimated annual cost
of $30,000.
4) Approve Budget Amendment to complete the implementation of the
new integrated Financial Management System.
F. COUNTY MANAGER
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Je
AIRPORT AUTHORITY
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
1)
Miscellaneous Items to File for Record with action as Directed.
OTHER CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS
1)
That the Board of County Commissioners make a determination of
whether the purchases of goods and services documented in the
Detailed Report of Open Purchase Orders serve a valid public purpose
and authorize the expenditure of County funds to satisfy said
purchases. A copy of the Detailed Report of Open Purchase Orders is
on display in the County Manager's Office, 2nd Floor, W. Harmon
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December 17, 2002
Turner Building, 3301 East Tamiami Trail.
COUNTY ATTORNEY
1)
Approve of the Stipulated Final Judgment relative to the Fee Simple
Acquisition of Parcels 120A and 120B in the Lawsuit entitled Collier
County v. Collier Development Corporation, et al, (Goodlette-Frank
Road, Pine Ridge Road to Vanderbilt Beach Road Project) in the
amount of $2,500.
2)
Authorize the making of an Offer of Judgment to Respondents
Lorenzo Diaz and Cecilia Diaz, both individually and as trustees, for
Parcel No. 169 in the amount of $14,400 in the Lawsuit styled Collier
County v. Ismael Gonzales, et al, Case No. 02-2159-CA (Immokalee
Road Project #60018).
3)
Authorize the making of an Offer of Judgment to Respondents Earl E.
Lightcap, Jr., and Barbara C. Lightcap, for Parcel No. 170 in the
amount of $12,600 in the Lawsuit styled Collier County v. Ismael
Gonzales, et al, Case No. 02-2159-CA (Immokalee Road Project
#60018).
4)
Authorize the making of an Offer of Judgment to Respondents Ronald
Combs and Phyllis J. Combs, for Parcel No. 172 in the amount of
$79,560 in the Lawsuit styled Collier County v. Ismael Gonzales, et
al, Case No. 02-2159-CA (Immokalee Road Project #60018).
5)
Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners approve
the Mediated Settlement Agreement and the Stipulated Final
Judgment incorporating the same terms and conditions as the
Mediated Settlement Agreement relative to the acquisition on Parcel
Nos. 114, 115 and 116 in the Lawsuit entitled Collier County v.
Centex Homes, a Nevada General Partnership, et al, Case No. 02-
1602-CA (Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners
approve a Settlement Proposal for Ricketts Enterprises of Naples Inc.,
et al v. Board of County Commissioners for Collier County, Florida,
et al, Case No. 2:01-CV-76-FTM-29DNF, now pending in the United
States District Court for the Middle District of Florida.
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December 17, 2002
17.
SUMMARY AGENDA - THIS SECTION IS FOR ADVERTISED PUBLIC
HEARINGS AND MUST MEET THE FOLLOWING CRITERIA: 1) A
RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL FROM STAFF; 2) UNANIMOUS
RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL BY THE COLLIER COUNTY
PLANNING COMMISSION OR OTHER AUTHORIZING AGENCIES OF
ALL MEMBERS PRESENT AND VOTING; 3) NO WRITTEN OR ORAL
OBJECTIONS TO THE ITEM RECEIVED BY STAFF, THE COLLIER
COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION, OTHER AUTHORIZING
AGENCIES OR THE BOARD, PRIOR TO THE COMMENCEMENT OF
THE BCC MEETING ON WHICH THE ITEMS ARE SCHEDULED TO BE
HEARD; AND 4) NO INDIVIDUALS ARE REGISTERED TO SPEAK IN
OPPOSITION TO THE ITEM. SHOULD ANY OF THE FOLLOWING
ITEMS BE MOVED TO THE REGULAR AGENDA ALL PARTICIPANTS
MUST BE SWORN IN.
This item requires that all participants be sworn in and ex parte
disclosure be provided by Commission members. Petition CU-02-AR-
3278, Richard G. Lewis of Anchor Engineering Inc., representing Collier
County Government, John Jones, Library Director, requesting a Conditional
Use for an Essential Service within the "RSF-3" Residential Single Family
Zoning District for property located at the Southwest Corner of Immokalee
Drive and First Street in Section 4, Township 47 South, Range 29 East,
Collier County, Florida.
Be
This item requires that all participants be sworn in and ex parte
disclosure be provided by Commission members. Petition PUDA-2002-
AR-2736, D. Wayne Arnold of Q. Grady Minor, P.A., representing Gary A.
Link of Tadpole Holdings LLC, requesting an amendment to the "The Falls
of Naples" Planned Unit Development (PUD), for the purpose of reducing
the minimum accessory structure setback from 50 feet to 25 feet from
Airport-Pulling Road for property located on the Southwest Corner of Pine
Ridge Road (CR 896) and Airport-Pulling Road (CR 31) in Section 14,
Township 49 South, Range 25 East, Collier County, Florida.
An Ordinance amending Section 122-81 of the Code of Laws and
Ordinances also cited as Collier County Ordinance No. 72-1, as amended,
which created the Collier County Lighting District providing for amendment
to add Naples Production Park Street Lighting District to the Collier County
Lighting District; providing for amendment to correct a Scrivener's Error to
the Immokalee Area; providing for repeal of Ordinance No. 91-97, as
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December 17, 2002
amended; providing for inclusion in Code of Laws and Ordinances;
providing for conflict and severability; and providing an effective date.
This item is being continued to the January 14, 2003 BCC Meeting.
PUDZ-2001-AR- 1749, William L. Hoover, of Hoover Planning and
Development Inc., representing Mark L. Lin&r, Trustee, requesting a rezone
from "A" Rural Agricultural and "PUD" Planned Unit Development to
"PUD" Planned Unit Development known as The Mission Hills PUD, for a
commercial shopping center for property located at the northeast comer of
Vanderbilt Beach Road and Collier Boulevard (CR 951) in Section 34,
Township 48 South, Range 26 East, Collier County, Florida, consisting of
33.45+ acres.
18. ADJOURN
INQUIRIES CONCERNING CHANGES TO THE BOARD'S AGENDA SHOULD
BE MADE TO THE COUNTY MANAGER'S OFFICE AT 774-8383.
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December 17, 2002
December 17, 2002
Item #2A
REGULAR, CONSENT AND SUMMARY AGENDA-
APPROVED AND/OR ADOPTED WITH CHANGES (WITH THE
EXCEPTION OF ITEM #16Al 0, WHICH COMMISSIONER
HF, NNING ABSTAINED)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA:
invocation, please.
Please stand.
Mr. Mudd, would you lead us in the
MR. MUDD: Let us pray. Oh, heavenly Father. We ask your
blessing on these proceedings and all who are gathered here. We ask
a special blessing on this Board of County Commissioners, guide
them in their deliberations, grant them the wisdom and vision to meet
the trials of this day and the days to come.
Bless us now as we undertake the business of Collier County
and its citizens, that our actions will serve the greater good of all
citizens and be acceptable in your sight, your will be done.
Before we -- before we end this prayer, if we could have a
minute of silence. We had a wonderful citizen that has been a
wonderful benefactor to Collier County pass away last week, and
that's Mr. Herb Sugden. And if we could put him in our thoughts and
prayers for the next couple of seconds. Amen.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Amen.
(The Pledge of Allegiance was cited in unison.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Good morning. Mr. Mudd?
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, the -- good morning.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Good morning.
MR. MUDD: And happy holidays. I hope everybody is
prepared.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I am. Dressed for it.
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December 17, 2002
MR. MUDD: Let's talk about the change list today. It's a little
more than we'd like to have, but let's go through it.
The first item is to add item 5(A), and that's a presentation of the
check to the Board of County Commissioners from the Florida Local
Government Finance Commission to be presented by John
Yonkosky. And whenever anybody wants to give us money, I try to
get them on the agenda.
Next item is to continue item 8(A) to February 11, 2003, and
that's the rezone brought to us by Robert L. Duane of Hole Montes
representing Craig D. Timmins, Trustee, requesting a rezone from
RSF-3 to C-1 of the property that's located south of Immokalee Road
on the east side of the Veterans Park Drive, and that's to be continued
until February 1 lth at the petitioner's request.
Next item is to add item 9(D). That's a discussion of an
invitation by the Collier County Airport Authority to designate a
member of the Board of County Commissioners to become a member
of the selection to be, to participate in the selection and salary
process for the Airport Authority's executive director's position. And
that add is at Commissioner Coletta's request. And that has to do with
a piece of correspondence that he received from the Airport
Authority.
The next item is to continue item 10(A) to January 14, 2003,
and that's an adoption of a resolution authorizing the condemnations
of fee simple title interests and those perpetual or temporary
easement interests required for the construction of a six-lane section
of Golden Gate Parkway between Livingston Road and Santa
Barbara. That's at staff's request. Again, continue item 10(A) to
January 14th.
The next item is to add item 16(A)15. A copy of that was given
to the board yesterday. My apologies for that. That was a piece of
paper that the -- that the community developments has had, and we
got documentation that said they had it in October, and for some
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December 17, 2002
reason it never surfaced before that.
And the petitioner came forward and said, I really need this.
Staff reviewed it and said there's no reason it was -- it should (sic)
have been heard in November. So it's to add 16(A)15 to the consent
agenda, and that's a request to approve for recording of final plant of
-- final plat of Carlton Lakes Unit 3C, and approval of the standard
form construction and maintenance agreement and approval of the
amount of the performance security, and that's at staffs request.
Again, add item 16(A)15 to the consent agenda.
Next item is to move item 16(B)5 to 10(D), and that's to approve
the professional service agreement number 02-3398 in the amount of
$1.4 million for the design and engineering services to be provided to
CH2M Hill, Inc., for roadway improvements to Collier Boulevard
between Golden Gate Parkway and Immokalee Road. And that's at
Commissioner Fiala and Henning's request. Again, move item
16(B)5 to 10(D).
The next item is -- the next item was a move, okay, from the
consent agenda of 16(K)5 to the regular agenda at Commissioner
Fiala's request. When that became known, the petitioner asked that
the item be continued until January 14th. So continue item 16(K)5 to
January 14th.
Recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners
approve the mediated settlement agreement and the stipulated final
judgment incorporating the same terms and conditions as the
mediated settlement agreement relative to the acquisition of parcels
number 114, 115, and 116 in the lawsuit entitled Collier County and
Centex Homes.
Again, that's at the petitioner's request after Commissioner Fiala
wanted to move it to the regular agenda. It's to continue item
16(K)5. And that will be on the regular agenda when we continue it,
Commissioner Fiala, to January 14th.
The next item is to move item 16(K)6 to 10(A) -- or excuse me
Page 4
December 17, 2002
-- to 12(A). Again, move item 16(K)6 to 12(A). It's a
recommendation that the Board of County Commissioners approve a
settlement proposal for Ricketts Enterprises of Naples, Inc., et all,
versus the Board of County Commissioner for Collier County, et al,
case number-- and I won't go through the case number-- now
pending in the U.S. District Court for the Middle District of Florida,
and all commissioners asked that this item be moved to the regular
agenda. Again, move 16(K)6 to 12(A).
And lastly, move item 17(C) to 8(I), an ordinance amending
section 122-81 of the Code of and Laws Ordinances also cited as
Collier County ordinance 72-1, as amended, which created the
Collier County lighting district providing for amendment to add
Naples Production Park lighting district to the Collier County
lighting district; providing for amendment to correct a scrivener's
error to the Immokalee area; providing for repeal of Ordinance 91-97
as amended, providing for inclusion in Code of Laws and
Ordinances; providing for conflict and severability; and providing an
effective date, and that's at the county attorney's request.
I'll also note that item 16(A)13, the board is acting as the CRA
and not the BCC when con -- when consenting this item.
And for the general public's regard, I want to read something off
the front page. All persons wishing to speak on any agenda item
must register prior to speaking. Speakers must register with the
county manager or Ms. Filson -- Ms. Filson, if you could raise your
hand-- prior to the presentation of the agenda item to be addressed.
And I'd also like to -- to talk about Collier County Ordinance
99-22, requires that all lobbyists shall, before engaging in any
lobbying activity, including but not limited to addressing the Board
of County Commissioners, register with the clerk to the board at the
Board Minutes and Records Department, which is on the fourth floor
of this building.
That's all I have, Mr. Chairman.
Page 5
December 17, 2002
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you very much, Mr. Mudd.
Before we go, I had an -- for approval of the agenda, look for
other changes. You have one speaker?
MS. FILSON: Yes, sir. I have one speaker for the summary
agenda, 17(A), Richard Lewis.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Yes. Would you call him forward,
please.
MS. FILSON: Mr. Richard Lewis.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Is Mr. Lewis in here? Mr. Lewis?
There we go.
MR. MUDD:
about 17(A)?
MR. LEWIS:
MR. MUDD:
Mr. Richard Lewis, you've signed up to talk
Yes.
If you'd like to come to the podium, please, sir.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: No, sir. I need you to come up front.
It don't matter how long it takes there.
And would you please, for the record, state your name.
MR. LEWIS: My name's Dick Lewis, Anchor Engineering,
representing Collier County Library on the -- item 17(A). If-- there's
a discussion that was approved by the planning commission
unanimously -- and we're just asking for a -- a conditional use so that
the library in Immokalee can be expanded.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you, sir.
MS. FILSON: Mr. Chairman, I also just received a speaker for
item 16(B)4.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Fine.
MS. FILSON: John Casimini.
MR. CASIMINI: That's me.
MS. FILSON: Yes.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: If you'd state your name for the
record, sir.
MR. CASIMINI: My name is John Casimini, and I'm here to let
Page 6
December 17, 2002
the commissioners know that a request is going to be made to extend
Logan Boulevard from Vanderbilt Beach Road to Immokalee Road,
and we wanted to let the commission know that not everyone is for
that in the community, and I brought a petition in with me.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you, sir.
MR. CASIMINI: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: If you would be so kind as to leave
the petition with the --
MR. CASIMINI: Sure.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: -- county attorney, Mr. Weigel, right
next to you.
And we'll go down the line now and see if there's any other
changes to the agenda, starting with Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: If you would give me a few
moments, Commissioner.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. We'll come back to you,
Commissioner Henning.
Start with Commissioner Halas.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: No, I don't have any changes for
the agenda.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No, I do not. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And I have no additional changes.
Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I have no additional changes.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Henning, are you
ready, or you want to take another minute?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No, I got it here. The wishes
that -- I need to abstain for the perception of conflict of interest on
16(A) 10, and I will file the papers accordingly with the county
attorney's office.
Sue Filson just told me that she'll take care of it.
Page 7
December 17, 2002
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you.
And with that, do I hear a motion to approve the agenda?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: So moved.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We have a motion from
Commissioner Coyle for approval and a second from Commissioner
Henning.
Any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: All those in favor, indicate by
saying.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: The ayes-
Page 8
AGENDA CHANGES
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' MEETING
December 17, 2002
ADD ITEM 5(A): Presentation of a check to the Board of County Commissioners
from the Florida Local Government Finance Commission to be presented by John
Yonkosky.
CONTINUE ITEM 8(A) to February 11, 2003 BCC Meetin.q: RZ-2001-AR-1649,
Robert L. Duane, of Hole Montes, Inc., representing Craig U. Timmins, Trustee,
requesting a rezone from RSF-3 to C-1 for property located south of Immokalee
Road on the east side of Veterans Park Drive, in Section 26, Township 48 South,
Range 25 East, Collier County, Florida. (Petitioner request.)
ADD ITEM 9(D): Discussion of an invitation by the Collier County Airport
Authority to designate a member of the Board of County Commissioners to
become a member of the selection committee to participate in the selection and
salary process for the Airport Authority's Executive Director's position.
(Commissioner Coletta request.)
CONTINUE ITEM 10(A) to January 14, 2003 BCC Meetin_q: Adopt a Resolution
authorizing Condemnation of Fee Simple Title Interests and/or those perpetual or
temporary easement interests required for the construction of a six-lane section
of Golden Gate Parkway between Livingston Road and Santa Barbara Boulevard
(Capital Improvement Element No. 74, Project No. 60027). Estimated Fiscal
Impact: $4,179,000. (Staff request.)
ADD 16(A)15: Request to approve for recording the final plat of "Carlton Lakes
Unit 3C", and approval of the Standard Form Construction and Maintenance
Agreement and approval of the amount of the performance security. (Staff
request.
MOVE ITEM 16(B)5 to 10(D): Approve Professional Services Agreement No. 02-
3398 in the amount of $1,404,387 for Design and Engineering Services to be
provided by CH2M Hill, Inc., for roadway improvements to Collier Boulevard,
between Golden Gate Boulevard and Immokalee Road, Project No. 65061.
(Commissioners Fiala and Henning request.)
CONTINUE ITEM 16(K)5 to January 14, 2003 BCC meetin_cl: Recommendation that
the Board of County Commissioners approve the Mediated Settlement Agreement
and the Stipulated Final Judgment incorporating the same terms and conditions
as the Mediated Settlement Agreement relative to the acquisition on Parcel Nos.
114, 115 and 116 in the Lawsuit entitled Collier County v. Centex Homes, a Nevada
General Partnership, et al, Case No. 02-1602-CA (Goodlette-Frank Road Project
#60134). (Petitioner request.)
Page 2
Changes - 12/17102 BCC Agenda
MOVE ITEM 16(K)6 to 12(A): Recommendation that the Board of County
Commissioners approve a Settlement Proposal for Ricketts Enterprises of Naples,
Inc., et al v. Board of County Commissioners for Collier County, FL, et al, Case No.
2:01-CV-76-FTM-29DNF, now pending in the United States District Court for the
Middle District of Florida. (Commissioners' request.)
MOVE ITEM 17(C) to 8(I): An Ordinance amending Section 122-81 of the Code of
Laws and Ordinances also cited as Collier County Ordinance No. 72-1, as
amended, which created the Collier County Lighting District providing for
amendment to add Naples Production Park Street Lighting District to the Collier
County Lighting District; providing for amendment to correct a Scrivener's Error
to the Immokalee Area; providing for repeal of Ordinance No. 91-97, as amended;
providing for inclusion in Code of Laws and Ordinances; providing for conflict
and severability; and providing an effective date. (County Attorney request.)
NOTE: Item 16(A)13 - The Board is acting as the CRA and not the BCC when
consenting this item.
December 17, 2002
Item #2B
MINUTES OF THE NOVEMBER 19, 2002 REGULAR MEETING
- APPROVED AS PRESENTED
COMMISSIONER HENNING:
November 19, 2002, regular meeting.
5-0.
Motion to approve the
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We -- first we-- the first motion was
The second motion is by Commissioner Henning, second by
Commissioner Coyle.
Any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: All those in favor, indicate by saying
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And that included the November
19th, too, right, Commissioner Henning; is that correct?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: That's what it was, yeah.
Item #3A & B
EMPI,OYEE SERVICE AWARDS - PRESENTED
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay, fine.
Now we have some service awards, and we're going to take just
Page 9
December 17, 2002
a moment and go out -- go up front and --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: The fun part of the time, right?
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: This is the fun part, yes. Follow me.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, our first awardee today is a -- is a
25-year employee, and that's Helen Ortega from Emergency Medical
Services. Helen?
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Let's hear it for 25 years.
(Applause.)
MR. MUDD: Our next awardee is also a 25-year employee and
that's LaiTy Henry from Transportation Operations.
(Applause.)
Item #5A
PRESENTATION OF CHECK IN THE AMOUNT OF $15,341 TO
THE BCC FROM THE FLORIDA LOCAL GOVERNMENT
FINANCE COMMISSION- PRF, SENTF, D BY JOHN YONKOSKY
MR. MUDD: We're going to go a little bit out of order.
John Yonkosky, can you come forward and present that check
before -- before someone takes it?
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Here comes John coming through
again.
MR. YONKOSKY: Good morning, Commissioners. My name
is John Yonkosky, utilities billing customer service director, but I
also represent you on the Florida Local Government Finance
Commission, commonly known as the Florida Association of
Counties Commercial Paper Program.
And since 1991, when the commission was created, it -- the
commission has issued more than $1.1 billion in low-cost financing
to cities, counties, and special districts in the State of Florida. Collier
County has participated in over $71 million of that -- that loaning.
Page 10
December 17, 2002
When the program began in 1991, the issuance costs were
approximately $4,000 per million issued, up to the first $20 million.
Since that time, the program has been very successful, and the
issuance cost has lowered considerably to approximately $2,000 per
million dollars issued up to the first $20 million.
As a result of that, the commission has been able to issue rebate
checks to some of the counties that participated in the programs
initially.
On December 5th this rebate check that I'm just about to present
to you was presented at the Florida Association of Counties'
legislative update to Commissioner Coletta and Commissioner Halas.
The -- and now it gives me a great deal of honor to present this
check for $15,341 to the Board of County Commissioners.
(Applause.)
MR. MUDD: Thank you, sir.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Can I just say, John, how much I
appreciate all the work you do. You jump right on anything that we
send over to you and you take such good care of all of our
constituents.
MR. YONKOSKY: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And I really appreciate that.
MR. YONKOSKY: Thank you, Commissioner Fiala.
Item #4A
PROCLAMATION RECOGNIZING SATURDAY, DECEMBER
21, 2002, AS NATIONAL HOMELESS PERSONS' AWARENESS
DAY- ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We only have one proclamation
today, and it's my honor to be able to read it. Anyone from the
hunger coalition, would come up front, please.
Page 11
December 17, 2002
We welcome you today, we really do.
Whereas, research has shown that over 12 million adults
nationwide have been homeless at some point in their life and that
well over 67,600 people are homeless at any given night; and,
Whereas, the continued downturn in the economy results in
employment layoff and cutbacks, the number of individuals and
families needing assistance from social service -- social services is
increasing at an alarming rate; and,
Whereas, the number of homeless children today make up over
29 percent of our homeless people; and,
Whereas, in Collier County, is it estimated that at any point in
time, there are over 800 men, women, and children homeless; and,
Whereas, over 50 years has passed since the housing act of 1949
calling for a decent home and suitable living environment for every
American family; and,
Whereas, the Collier County Hunger and Homeless Coalition is
made up of over 50 local social service and government agencies
who share the mission in supporting the planning, delivery, and
coordination of high-quality services to the hungry and homeless of
Collier County; and
Whereas, hunger and homelessness impacts the entire
community, and each individual is a commu -- in the community can
make a difference in finding solutions to these problems. Solutions
begin with actions, and actions begin with awareness.
Now, therefore be it proclaimed by the Board of Collier County
Commissioners of Collier County, Florida, that on Saturday,
December 21st, 2002, be designated as National Homeless Person
Awareness Day.
Done and ordered this 17th day of December, 2002, Jim Coletta,
Chairman.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second.
Page 12
December 17, 2002
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Motion to approve and a second.
All those in favor, indicate by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Motion to approve, 5-0.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you so much for what you're
doing out there, and thank you all for being involved like you are.
Wait, before you go, we need -- George, step back here for a
photo opportunity. You might want to bunch it up a little bit closer,
towards the center. Try to hide me as best you can.
And George, I got a box of candy canes over there. You may
take one if you make your speech less than three minutes.
MR. DROBINSKI: Thank you. I'll make them 10 and just
abstain altogether from the candy canes.
Commissioners, for the record, George Drobinski, past chair of
the coalition and director of Catholic Charities.
I want to take a moment just to recognize what these good
individuals were doing standing up there with these posters. The
candlelight vigil that we are going to be holding in St. Matthew's
House this Thursday evening, starting at six o'clock, is one of the
initiatives we do to raise awareness to homelessness.
One of the other initiatives that we've recently done is we've had
a poster contest, and this was for the elementary school-aged children
within shelters in our community, and it was a good and a bad event.
It was a good event in which it raised awareness and it helped the
children to express themselves in the situation they're in. The bad
part of it is that there was way too many entries.
And that's what these initiatives that we undertake as the Collier
Page 13
December 17, 2002
County Hunger and Homeless Coalition is that we really want to
raise awareness, want to educate the community, we want to see that
people jump on the bandwagon, take action so that when we have a
contest next year and the year after, we have no entries, that every
child who wants a home, has a home, and with their parents. They
have a safe place to live.
And we appreciate the recognition to these types of initiatives
such as this candlelight vigil. I'd like to ask Mary Socheck
(phonetic), who is current chairperson for the coalition, to tell you
about the coalition and also a formal invitation for our candlelight
vigil this Thursday.
MS. SOCHECK: Good morning, Commissioners, and thank
you so much for allowing us to be here today and for the
proclamation.
Earlier this year, during a given 36-hour period, members of the
coalition and friends of the coalition were able to count, as you so
rightfully indicated, Commissioner Coletta, over 800 individuals and
families who -- in Collier County who were homeless.
This number represents individuals who are living in shelter,
living in shelters for-- from domestic violence, living in shacks
without any electricity and water, people living in the woods, in
abandoned cars, and in the streets.
Members of the coalition who work so hard to coordinate
services realize that this number represents only the tip of the iceberg
of those who are homeless and at risk of homeless here in Collier
County.
This number does not include the hidden homeless, those folks
who are doubling up and tripling up in -- with families and friends
and even strangers because they can't afford a decent place to live or
people who can't afford the cost for medical cost and counseling. It
also does not include people who can't find a job that pays a living
wage.
Page 14
December 17, 2002
On this National Homeless Persons' Awareness Day, the Hunger
and Homeless Coalition will remember all those here in Collier
County who are homeless. And we want to thank the commissioners
for all your support and ask -- and for making this day possible, and
also ask all those -- ask your support and all those in Collier County
to be there with us. It will be on Thursday over at St. Matthew's
House starting at six o'clock, and that's when we'll have our day of
commemoration this year. Thank you very much. (Applause.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I've been attending this particular
function now for about three, four years. I'm going to be -- I'm
committed to go to Copeland on Thursday for an issue over the local
post office there. I was wondering if one of the other commissioners
would be so kind to take my place and read the proclamation.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I have a speaking engagement
that evening at Gulf Coast High.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'll try and make it. Let me check
my schedule.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I believe I'm supposed to be on
Marco that evening, but let me see if I can arrange to do that.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. It always work when you do
it in about -- in front of about 20,000 people. Thank you so much.
Item #6A
PUBLIC PETITION REQUEST BY MR. TOR KOLFLAT TO
DISCUSS GREY OAKS EXCLUSION FROM LIVINGSTON
ROAD BEAUTIFICATION PHASE II MSTU- TO BE BROUGHT
BACK AS REGIH~AR AGENDA ITEM AT THE NEXT MEETING
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, that brings us to public petitions.
Page 15
December 17, 2002
We have one, it's 6(A), and that's a public petition from Mr. Tor
Kolflat to discuss the Grey Oaks exclusion from the Livingston Road
Beautification Phase II MSTU.
MR. KOLFLAT: Good morning, Commissioners. My name is
Tor Kolflat. I live at 2713 Buckthorn Way. I have been a full-time
resident of Collier County for 20 years. I was one of the first
residents in Grey Oaks, and I've lived there for the past nine years.
Currently I am president of the Grey Oaks Estates Homeowners'
Association.
In consideration of your time and in the interest of brevity, I will
read my remarks today.
The issue I am interested in is the Livingston Road
Beautification Phase II MSTU. Until receipt of the appraiser tax
notices in August, the Grey Oaks property owners were not apprised
of, were not aware of, did not express support for, were not polled,
did not vote for, and did not request the creation of this MSTU.
Since that time, the Grey Oaks property owners have
considered, discussed, and debated the MSTU issue. The majority
have decided they want to be excluded from this MSTU.
For the record I submit this file containing a list of all Grey
Oaks property owners and copies of signed petitions from 398, or 75
percent of them. I'd like to present this to the record.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Coyle? Oh, I'm
sorry. Forgive me, go ahead.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: No, after.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We've got to come up with a better
way of signaling.
MR. KOLFLAT: Fine, thank you.
These petitions read, and I quote, the undersigned Grey Oaks
property owners request that the Collier County Commission
undertake all necessary steps to exclude the Grey Oaks property
owners from ordinance number 2001-76, Livingston Road
Page 16
December 17, 2002
Beautification Phase II Municipal Services Taxing Unit.
The many reasons that the Grey Oaks property owners want to
be excluded were enumerated in this report entitled, report regarding
Livingston Road Beautification Phase II MSTU for the Collier
County Commission, dated December 1 st, 2002.
Last week copies of this report were delivered to each
commissioner, the county manager, and county attorney; therefore, I
will not take your time now to reiterate the reasons; however, I
would like to submit this copy also for the record, if I might.
We understand there is an existing Grey Oaks indebtedness to
the county from this MSTU which must be repaid before we could be
excluded from the MSTU.
At the September 18th, 2002, commission meeting, the Grey
Oaks developer proposed how they would repay this indebtedness.
Excerpts from this meeting transcript were included in the report we
provided you.
In essence, the developer stated that if the majority of Grey
Oaks property owners do not want to be a part of this MSTU, the
Grey Oaks developer would pay the county for the Grey Oaks share
of the MSTU indebtedness. We submit that these 398 signed
petitions representing 75 percent of the property owners are prima
facie evidence that the majority do not want to be a part of this
MSTU.
The developer has represented to us that he now acknowledges
that the majority does not want to be a part of this MSTU and he will
honor this financial commitment to you.
Now, with the Grey Oaks portion of indebtedness resolved, the
concern of the 398 Grey Oaks property owners to be extricated from
the MSTU can then be addressed; therefore, we request that this
subject be placed on the agenda of the next available commission
meeting for the following two actions: One, upon payment by the
Grey Oaks developer of the Grey Oaks' portion of the current MSTU
Page 17
December 17, 2002
indebtedness, Grey Oaks property owners will be exempt from any
and all future indebtedness incurred by the MSTU; secondly,
amendment of ordinance number 2001-76 or any other necessary
action will be undertaken to exclude Grey Oaks property owners
from the Livingston Road Beautification Phase II MSTU.
We respectfully request your approval to place this matter on
the agenda of a future Board of Commissioners meeting. Thank you
for your attention.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you, sir.
Commissioner Coyle, then Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Mr. Chairman, I think this is an
issue that has to be resolved, and I would suggest that we place it on
the agenda for our next regularly scheduled meeting.
MR. MUDD: Mr. Chairman, I'll let you know that I do have a
letter signed by Mr. Sansbury who represents the developer on
$150,000, okay, as far as what they consider their debt, as far as -- I
also have a wire transfer of that $150,000 into an escrow account to
be paid to the county when we figure out what it is.
I've also had some staff work done to try to determine what the
-- what the outlays are, and it's all done by assessed value. You can
also see on this line that the Grey Oaks' share of the MSTU, because
of their assessed value, is about 53 percent.
Now, this is a rough -- a rough thing, and by the next meeting
we have -- I'll make sure staff goes through it with the property
appraiser and make sure we got the specifics on the dollar amount.
That would mean, of the $253,000 debt of this MSTU, that -- that
Grey Oaks would be accountable for $134,000 and change. That
$150,000 escrow account would cover that. And again, these aren't
-- these aren't fine numbers. It's a -- it was a rough estimate on our
part with the property appraiser. We'll go through the final parts and
we'll have all that information for you at a future meeting.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Henning?
Page 18
December 17, 2002
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Also we took action to extend
the membership of the MSTU, this MSTU, to include two members
from Kensington and to include two members from Grey Oaks. I had
-- I would hope that we could hear from them at the time when we
bring this back. Because if we're going to exclude Grey Oaks, then
there's no reason to have representation from--
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Grey Oaks.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- the Grey Oaks on this
advisory board. And I concur with Commissioner Coyle's comments
about bringing this back for further discussion.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Do we need to make a motion to
that effect?
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I think--
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I move that we bring this back at
our -- bring this Grey Oaks MSTU issue back at our next county
commission meeting.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I second it.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We have a motion by Commissioner
Fiala and a -- two seconds, but we'll go with the one from
Commissioner Coyle.
And all those in -- any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: All those in favor, indicate by saying
aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Opposed?
(No response.)
Page 19
December 17, 2002
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: The ayes have it, 5-0.
Item #8G
ORDINANCE 2002-68, RE PETITION PUDA-01-AR-431, JAMES
G. O'GARA, REPRESENTING PARK EAST DEVELOPMENT
LTD., REQUESTING A REZONE FROM"PUD" PLANNED UNIT
DEVELOPMENT TO PUD FOR THE PURPOSE OF AMENDING
THE FOUNDERS PLAZA PUD TO ALLOW ADDITIONAL
SMALL-SCALE RETAIL LAND USES ONLY ON THOSE
PARCELS THAT EXCEED 150 FEET IN DEPTH FOR
PROPERTY LOCATED ON THE NORTH AND SOUTH SIDES
OF GOLDEN GATE PARKWAY (CR 886) AND AT THE SANTA
BARBARA CANAL CROSSING- ADOPTED WITH
ADDITIONAl. STIPI JI.ATIONS
And we're going to go a little bit out of order here, because
we've got one item here that's reached resolution, and I want to get it
wiped off the slate here so we can move on, and that's 8(G), the
O'Gara situation.
And what I'm going to request in the -- in order to be able to
move this along in the most expedient way possible, Commissioner
Henning has been most involved in this one issue, being that it's his
district, and I'm going to ask him to take the proceedings at this point
so that we can move it forward. Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Association met with the
developer of-- to amend this PUD along with two staff members,
one being--
MR. MUDD: You need to swear them in, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Oh.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Yes.
Page 20
December 17, 2002
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Court reporter, would
you please swear in the participants.
(The witnesses were sworn.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Mr. Ray --
MR. MUDD: Any disclosures?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, I had a meeting with the
civic association and the developer last night.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I have no disclosures, other than
the ones I made last time.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I met one more time with the
petitioner.
Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, I have also met with Mr.
O'Gara again.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And I also met with Mr. O'Gara in
my office.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Ray Bellows from planning
department was present, and I think we have some amendments for
resolution of this item.
MR. BELLOWS: Yes. For the record, Ray Bellows, chief
planner with current planning.
As Commissioner Henning indicated, there was a meeting with
the Golden Gate Civic Association board of directors last night, and
we went over some of the concerns of the board along with staff.
And there were several issues that caused this petition to be
continued from the last meeting, and one was how to deal with the
overnight parking of commercial vehicles.
The board of directors came up with a solution that was
agreeable to all, and this would be to have -- the overnight parking of
commercial vehicles on tracts E, C, and D shall not exceed a rated
Page 21
December 17, 2002
load capacity of one ton and the number of commercial vehicles
parked overnight shall not exceed 30 percent of the required parking
for each use as noted in sections 2.3.16 of the Land Development
Code, which is the required parking.
There was also discussion to keep the PUD amendment from
referencing tracts A and B, which is the church tracts. They're not
part of the petition, so there shouldn't be any changes that affect it, so
we will make whatever revisions that affected that tract and take it
out.
The other was to clarify section 4.4.H.3 of the PUD document
which deals with landscaping or buffering. It references currently a
Type C buffer, which includes a wall and fence requirements of six
feet tall, and we will put a note in there that the wall is part of this
buffer requirements, just to clarify that.
And that -- the last part would be that the developer shall pay a
fair share cost of the construction of the pedestrian bridges. The fair
share cost shall be the right-of-way and -- or access easements for the
bridge. That would be part of his fair share contribution towards the
construction of the bridges.
The transportation department staff will work out the number
and location of these bridges. That would be the last change to the
document.
And I'd be happy to answer any other questions that you might
have.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: One more item that I
remember, it is dealing with drive-through-- drive-up windows with
restaurants, amending J on page 16 as from a -- development
standards. The emphasis is, the main use with a drive-through
window, drive-up window would be -- the main use would be a
sit-down restaurant.
MR. BELLOWS: Okay. That's correct. I remember.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yep. And also in tracts -- just
Page 22
December. 17, 2002
a clarification on your statement -- C, D, and E, landscape buffer is a
wall or fence.
MR. BELLOWS: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Correct. Okay.
I'll make a motion to approve with the amendments that Mr.
Bellows has stated, along were planning commission's
recommendations and other staff recommendations.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, I think it would be good if we
hear from the petitioner to get his agreement on the record, Mr.
O'Gara to stand there and do that, and then go to any public speakers
that we have. And Ms. Filson?
MS. FILSON: Yes, sir, I do have a speaker.
MR. O'GARA: My name is Jim O'Gara, for the record. I
wanted to clarify something that Ray mentioned, when he said part of
our fair share contribution. We're going to donate the right-of-way,
that is correct, but there would be no cash outlay. It's -- we are
donating the right-of-way. I think that's what we agreed on last
night. And Ray's comment about part of, I just wanted to clarify that.
But other than that, everything's perfectly acceptable.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right. That's -- that's a
clarification in my motion.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'll second your motion just while
it's on the floor so that we can continue on.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you.
MS. FILSON: Mr. Chairman, I have one speaker on this item.
Cheryle Newman.
MS. NEWMAN: Good morning, Commissioners. For the
record, Cheryle Newman, Golden Gate Civic Association president.
I would just like to say that we are in full agreement of the
amendments that were discussed this morning by Ray, and we are
moving forward on this petition.
Thank you very much for taking us early.
Page 23
December 17, 2002
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Also what was mentioned last
night, there is a desire to look at other uses that would be fitting in
this overlay, in the Golden Gate professional overlay.
Commissioners, we will be working with the Golden Gate
Master Plan Advisory Committee along with the civic association for
those Growth Management Plan amendments for a possibility for
those uses.
MR. MUDD: One of the things --
MS. NEWMAN: That's correct.
MR. MUDD: One of the things that came up in the discussion
last night that I've seen on emails this morning is, the Golden Gate
master plan, landscaping master plan, never got into our Land
Development Code and Growth Management Plan. And the staff
was directed to do that in the past, and it's not there, and we'll correct
that.
It came up as something that wasn't there, so that's part of things
that we'll do along with Commissioner Henning and the increased
uses and things like that.
MS. NEWMAN: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: So we have a motion from
Commissioner Henning, a second by Commissioner Fiala.
Any comments? The only thing I'd like to say is this another
example -- and I thank you Commissioner Henning, the civic
association, and Mr. O'Gara for keeping this public process going to
the point where resolution is reached for everyone.
This is one of the hallmarks that this commission can be very
proud of in the fact that they have taken the residents' concerns to
heart, and the developers have come aboard and made the necessary
corrections to make it agreeable for everyone. And with that, I'll call for the motion.
All those in favor, indicate by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
Page 24
December 17, 2002
very
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: The ayes have it, 5-0. Thank you
much.
Item #7A
RESOLUTION 2002-506, RE PETITION VA-2002-AR-2705,
STEVEN JACOBS, OF TRISTAR DEVELOPMENT OF NAPLES,
LLC, REQUESTING A 1 O-FOOT VARIANCE FROM THE
REQUIRED 20-FOOT FRONT YARD SETBACK TO 10 FEET
FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT 4800 YACHT HARBOR DRIVE
- ADOPTED
We're going right on to the regular agenda now. We've got one
item we're going to take, maybe two, before our time certain, 7(A).
MR. MUDD: Yep. Swear in again.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Yes, sir, please. Would all those that
wish to participate at this time stand so they can be sworn in. (The witnesses were sworn.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And for disclosures, we'll start with
Commissioner Halas.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Hang on.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We can come back to you, sir.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yep, okay. Come back.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: None.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And I have none.
Page 25
December 17, 2002
Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Nothing. I have exchanged one
telephone call, but I've had no conversation.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: None.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And I have none either.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. Thank you, Commissioner
Halas.
MR. REISCHL: Good morning, Commissioners, Fred Reischl,
· planning services.
This is a request for a variance in Windstar PUD to request to
reduce one comer of a front yard, as you can see on the visualizer.
The building that's in solid blue is the building that's the subject of
the variance.
The petitioner originally submitted a site development plan for
these three buildings, having the three buildings in a straight line
without being tilted, met all the PUD requirements for setbacks. It
was a zero lot line at the rear along here, zero lot line along here, and
that was permitted by the PUD adjacent to golf course.
He since -- since then, since the submission of the SDP, he
received a question from the master homeowners' association saying
that that zero setback at that comer was very close to that golf green,
and, therefore, they requested that he push it forward and tilt the
building as you see on the visualizer; however, that required a
variance.
The petitioner said he would go forward with the variance if the
homeowners' association supported him in that, and he has.
We received the letter from the homeowner's association. It's in
your packet. And since then, at the planning commission meeting,
the -- some of the residents of the buildings across the street, which is
a separate homeowners' association-- they were part of the master
Page 26
December 17, 2002
association, but it's a different homeowners' association-- they said
that it would be -- it would push that building too close to the road.
As you can see, these are not the same scale, the site plan and
the aerial; however, the comer of the building that's in question here
would be approximately in this area, so it's -- the planning
commission debated this back and forth. They even suggested
maybe cutting the variance down to five feet. Then I think the
deciding factor for the planning commission was the fact that, as you
can see on the site plan here, the yellow, if it shows up for you, is the
paved right-of-way. The red is the right-of-way line, but the yellow
is the paved right-of-way.
So they're still going to be approximately 30 feet from the edge
of the paved right-of-way to the comer of the building. So it's not
just going to be 10 feet off the travel lanes. It will be in the area of
30 feet off the travel lanes.
And with that the planning commission recommended approval,
6-0.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Could you give me the same
measurements of the homes that are in existence across the street?
The comer of the home in the lower right-hand portion of the
photograph.
MR. REISCHL: It looks closes. And no disrespect to the
property appraiser's aerials, but it depends where the airplane was
when it was flown and stuff. The lines may not be exact.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: But would your assessment be that
the comer of that home is as close to the paved right-of-way as the
building across the street would be?
MR. REISCHL: It may even be a little bit closer.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Really?
Well, we have to move the home then, don't we?
MR. REISCHL: Well, that's a different subdivision. It may
Page 27
December 17, 2002
have different rules. This is a multi-family building. That's more of
a villa type, so they may have different setbacks.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Halas, then
Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Can you tell me what the height of
this building is in respect to where it sits on this property in the --
MR. REISCHL: I believe it's two stories. The petitioner is here.
He'll be able to answer that.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And what do we mean by two
stories, the actual total height of the building and not the center of the
roof, all the embellishments and everything else?
MR. REISCHL: No, I don't know that offhand.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. So the petitioner would be
able to answer that?
MR. REISCHL: He's got them under construction now. The
other two buildings are under construction.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: All right.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: But I think we want to stay focused
on what we're talking about. The variance isn't for the height though,
is it?
MR. REISCHL: No. It's just that corner of that one building.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: No, but this does play into
relationship of how close that building's going to look when it sits
beside the road.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Good point. Good point,
Commissioner Halas.
Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. I'm more interested in safety
concerns. If it's closer to the golf course, is there -- are there chances
that people could be hit with a golf ball?
MR. REISCHL: That was one of the concerns brought up at the
planning commission meeting, ricochet. Also, the safety was
Page 28
December 17, 2002
brought up about the mm, and I'll put a different graphic up here for
you that, again, helped the planning commission make their decision.
On this, the curve in the road doesn't look as great as it did on
the other one. It shows you that it's just like a slow curve. People
were concerned-- the planning commissioners were concerned about
making a mm and having this building 10 feet off the right-of-way.
Then they saw this graphic and that allayed their concern.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I guess my question would be, if we
were to do something different than has already -- has been requested
here, would we enter into any kind of suit if somebody was hit by a
golf ball because of the exposure on the golf course because of our
action here? I guess that's directed to the county attorney.
MR. REISCHL: Well, this is moving it away from the golf
course.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Well, I know that, but I mean, how
we vote would determine where it's going to go and the safety issue.
MR. WEIGEL: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I think it's wise if you discuss the safety issue here; however, in
the context of planning, if you make a determination of reasonability
here of the placement and the construction, I don't believe that this
type of decision would put the county at risk as a potential defendant.
It's a little removed from the activities themselves.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you, Mr. Weigel.
Mr. Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: This -- this graphic that you've got
up here at the present time, is this really the true representation of the
road or is the other photo that we saw earlier the true representation
of the road in regards to what the radius of that curve is?
MR. REISCHL: I believe they're both correct, it's just the
fourth -- I'll put it on here.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah, let's go back and look.
MR. REISCHL: So you can see it-- the planning
Page 29
December 17, 2002
commissioners were concerned that the -- that road continued in a
curve, but it really is more of a gentle curve and generally continues
in a straight, although curvy line.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And what's the speed limit in that
area?
MR. REISCHL: It's a gated community. I believe it's 15 or 20.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Do we have any public speakers on
this?
MS. FILSON: Yes, sir, we have three. The first one is Michael
Whalen, and if the second one would please step up and be onboard,
Jack Fink.
MR. REISCHL: And Mr. Whalen is the petitioner.
MS. FILSON: Okay.
MR. WHALEN: Good morning, Commissioners. Mike Whalen,
for the record.
This -- to answer your question, Commissioner, the front of this
building has garages and it's only one story at the point -- just to
clarify, at the comer where we're -- in question. It is a typical
two-story condominium, 3 5 to, I think, 40 feet tall.
The -- to answer another question Fred asked, the relationship of
our building to that -- to the house across the street is approximately
the same. In relationship, those graphs aren't perfect, but they show
-- it's about the same. Those comers are about the same, to agree with
them. I don't know what other questions you might have for us on
this.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Questions from the commissioners?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Is -- when the -- the placement of
this building in relationship to the one across the street, is it going to
give you the effect that you're going down through a tunnel then,
because you've got the -- the building that's presently there and then
with the placement of this building, looks like both buildings
Page 30
December 17, 2002
obviously are going to have about the same setback at that point; is
that correct?
MR. WHALEN: That's correct. The whole -- Fred, if you can
put up the other graphic there.
To backtrack a little bit, we are -- there was original plans
before we took over on this project for a four-story building of 18
units. We decided to go with three -- three two-story buildings to
lower the heights of the buildings, not to make it look so big and not
canyonize, for lack of better words.
All we're doing here and what we're trying to do, and we
worked very diligently with the Windstar Homeowners' Association,
the master association, the golf course, is just simply move this
building away from the green. If we were to line up all three of those
buildings in line, we literally would probably be within 40 to 50 feet
of the hole, not the green, the actual hole. So that's big -- you know,
speaking of safety, that's the big reason.
The Homeowners' Assoc -- or the golf course has put up a lot of
nice -- spent a lot of money in some landscaping here to buffer it a
little bit more, and we're just trying to help out.
Keep in mind, we don't really -- we're -- our original SDP went
in for all three of those buildings and were approved. We're just
trying to help out the safety of a couple golfers that might hit in there
and shoot and keep our building safe.
I hope that answered your question a little bit.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Next speaker?
MS. FILSON: Are you finished, sir?
MR. WHALEN: Yeah.
MS. FILSON: Okay. The next speaker is Jack Fink, and he
will be followed by your final speaker, Michael Gracie.
MR. FINK: Good morning, Commissioners. I'm Jack Fink,
president of the Windstar Master Association, and I support, and the
master association supports the request for this variance.
Page 31
December 17, 2002
We've been working with the Windstar Golf Club, the
Windward Cay Resident Association that's directly affected by this
new development, and we've been working over two years to find the
right solution for this problem.
Originally when Tristar proposed the buildings, that building --
the comer of the building was directly on the property line, and the
tilting of this building moves the comer of that building about 25 to
30 feet from the property line, and that's the reason for the tilting, and
to do that is the reason for the request for the variance.
So it's -- it's simple to look at, but we have worked on it for well
over two years to find the right compromise and solution,
recognizing safety, the overflight of golf balls, and all the residents'
concerns.
We think it's the right solution and we ask for your approval.
Thank you.
MS. FILSON: Your final speaker, Michael Gracie.
MR. GRACIE: Good morning, Michael Gracie. I'm general
manager of the Windstar Club on Naples Bay. I just came in support.
Basically I agree with everything Mr. Fink said. And also my board
of directors support this variance. And I'm here for any questions if
you'd like.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Questions? Commissioner-- I'm
waiting to see if a light's going to come one. None.
MR. GRACIE: Thank you. Happy holidays.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you, sir.
And that concludes the public speakers?
MS. FILSON: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Then we'll close the public hearing
at this time.
Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Mr. Chairman, as you know my
position on variances -- and I would be inclined to vote against this
Page 32
December 17, 2002
variance were it a variance for the developer's benefit solely, but in
this case it seems to me that this is a variance which is being
requested by the residents and the property owners and the
homeowners' association for the purpose of safety.
So under those circumstances, I would be willing to make a
motion of approval.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And I'll second --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Second.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- that motion.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. So we have a motion for
approval by Commissioner Coyle and a second by Commissioner
Fiala.
Any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA:
CHAIRMAN COLETTA:
aye.
All those in favor, indicate by saying
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And the -- opposed?
(No response.)
The ayes have it, 5-0.
Item #8E
ORDINANCE 2002- 69, ESTABLISHING THE SOUTH 8TM
STREET/DOAK AVENUE MUNICIPAL SERVICE TAXING AND
BENEFIT UNIT- ADOPTED WITH A 10 MIL CAP AND
ADDITIONAIJ STIPIIIJATIONS AND FI.EXII=IIIATY
Page 33
December 17, 2002
Now we're going to go to our time certain, which would be the
-- 8(C) -- wait, no, excuse me.
MR. MUDD: Your time certain is 8(E) --
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Yeah, 8(E).
MR. MUDD: -- and it would by 8(F).
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Be 8(F), yeah. And while we're--
Mr. Kant or whoever it is that's coming forward, I want to make a
brief statement and an apology and a thank you.
I apologize that the last meeting got a little heated and I'm very
thankful of the fact that we were allowed to carry this forward to
today.
The action that we took at the last meeting allowed us to move
forward with this item to clarify the issue. We're farther ahead now
than we were before. We probably cut about two months of planning
off it in the fact that we had to take this issue back under
consideration, and I hope you enjoy the presentation and some of the
ideas that are coming forward here today.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: You want to wait till exactly 10
o'clock or you want to proceed now?
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Well, we're about five minutes early,
so talk slow. We'll allow people to sign up on this issue past 10
o'clock, but there is a point of preamble to this with the explanations
of where we are.
I take it we have a contingent from Immokalee here. Would you
raise your hands? Good. Good to see you.
MR. KANT: I apologize, Commissioner. You caught me off
guard. Edward Kant, transportation operations director.
First of all, I've got a terrible cold, so I'm going to try to keep
this real short.
Last -- two weeks ago, last meeting, we were asked to do some
additional work on these two MSTUs.
MR. MUDD: 8(E), just to help the folks that are out there, is an
Page 34
December 17, 2002
ordinance creating the South 8th/Doak Avenue municipal service
taxing and benefit unit providing the authority, providing for the
creation, providing a purpose in governing body, providing for
annual estimates of expenses, taxations, not to exceed .5 mills of ad
valorem taxes per year, an assessment rate, providing for the
collection of taxes and assessments, providing for conflict and
severability, providing for inclusion in the Collier County Code of
Laws and Ordinances, providing for an effective date. MR. KANT: Thank you, Mr. Mudd.
Just again, for the record, I've highlighted on this portion of the
assessor's map the area that we're talking about for Doak Street (sic)
and I'll get-- we'll do the other one separately.
Several of the -- several of the questions that were asked at the
last meeting had to do with costs and the ability of the MSTUs to
cover those costs.
We've done some work, but I'm, frankly, reluctant to quote any
numbers obviously. I can tell you that we have some order of
magnitude costs, and any numbers that I give you I wanted to preface
by saying are simply estimates, they're extremely conservative,
mainly because we haven't had an opportunity to do any field work.
This is typically what comes after the creation of the MSTU.
We anticipate that the outside cost for the Doak/8th Street area
will approach a quarter of a million dollars, that includes the
construction costs, a contingency for construction in the amount of
about 10 percent, an engineering design fee, again, at about 10
percent, and administrative overhead for the formation of the MSTU
of about 15 percent.
I believe that based on what we find in the field we'll be able to
better those costs significantly. But I do not want to, as has been
pointed out, lead anybody astray to come up with a low-ball number.
In the ordinance, there -- we've set this ordinance up with some
flexibility. As both an MSTU or MSBU we can take the value
Page 3 5
December 17, 2002
approach or the assessment approach.
In trying to figure out what might we do for an assessment, we
did a listing of all of the properties in the area, and there were 20
some -- I can't remember the exact number. I think it was 28 or 29.
And we came up with about a cost per square foot of the area that is
-- those properties that were in the area, taking the entire area and
looking at the number of square feet against the total estimate that I
gave you, about 75 cents a square foot if we do an area assessment.
We might also want to look at a front foot assessment. And
again, we have a third option which is a value assessment. And as
was pointed out at the last meeting, the value assessment may not be
the best way to go merely because there is not a lot of taxable value
in the area.
We also met with the Immokalee -- the advisory board of the
Immokalee Redevelopment Agency of which this board is the
governing body, and we -- I believe we're going to hear from some
speakers that indicate that the redevelopment board, advisory board,
is much behind this -- these -- both of these projects.
We also met with Marlene Ford, who is the county's grants
coordinator, and Ms. Ford was kind enough to put together some
information for us. Again, this was very preliminary. But I'd like to,
if I may, read into the record several sentences from her memo to me,
which I got late yesterday.
She says, and I quote, as discussed, the majority of grant
programs, however, do require a local match in the form of cash
contributions from the applicant or from the local community, the
grant program needs to be -- see evidence that the applicant is doing
what it can to help itself, even if it cannot fully fund the project;
therefore, the formation of a taxing district, particularly if desired by
the local community, would go far in providing proof of commitment
from the local community.
Realizing that a taxing district in the Immokalee area would not
Page 36
December 17, 2002
create a substantial base of funds for capital improvement, it is
unlikely that such an effort would solely fund road improvements;
however, used as leverage toward federal, state or local grant
programs, much more can be accomplished.
Unfortunately, Commissioner Coyle, we did not get into any
specifics of particular grants; however, I believe that that's something
that we definitely have an avenue toward.
We also were looking in the case of the Doak Street area at the
local connectivity issues. Frankly, there may be a reasonable
approach for the county to take some part in that on behalf of the
Immokalee community, but, again, that's something we need to
investigate and come back with a solid proposal.
At this point we're merely asking on behalf of the 80 plus
percent of the local residents who did petition in favor of it, that the
board approve on the formation of the taxing district.
I do have one last comment, and that was that during a
discussion, the issue of the advisory board came up, or advisory
committee. Typically when we form, for example, a beautification
MSTU, we structure the ordinance so that there's an advisory
committee, because obviously the wishes and the desires of the
residents affected by that MSTU with respect to the aesthetics of
what it is they're doing are going to be very, very important to
carrying out their mission.
Typically in a road assessment or a road project, we don't do
that, because, frankly, you build a road and it's done. However, we
did look at whether or not it would be advisable to put together some
type of an advisory committee knowing that there would be
additional costs, because there have to be noticed meetings and
secretarial costs and whatnot, and we felt that we could do that if it
was the desire of the board, and limit it to one or two meetings,
perhaps an initial meeting to make sure we have the pulse of the
community, and then, perhaps, a presentation meeting.
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December 17, 2002
On the other hand, in discussing this issue with Mr. Rodgers,
who's chairman of the civic association, he felt that at this point, the
civic association has been the facilitator for these types of projects,
and he did not have any objection to continue to do so if-- again, if
the board didn't see any objection to that too.
So having said that, I would ask that you see favorably on this
petition.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We're going to go to Commissioner
Henning first, then Commissioner Fiala, then Commissioner Coyle.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The question, is there a reason
why we capped it out not to exceed a half a mill?
MR. KANT: Yes, sir. I used a templet when we put the
ordinance together. I was just talking with Mr. Smykowski, and the
legal limit, as I understand it, is 10 mills. I understand from Mr.
Smykowski we could go as high as, I believe, about six mills.
I think that what we would have to do is go back, once the
district is formed, assuming that we do get that approval, and once
we get a much better handle on the project, we can come back and
look at whether or not we need to change the millage, whether or not
we need to change even the limits of the district.
As I said, this is -- at this point, this is the first step. But we
would have -- we made that suggestion. And as I said, perhaps in
hindsight, we were a little hasty in making that suggestion, and we
maybe should have gone a little higher. But it was simply our desire
to get the people's wishes in front of you.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Can we make that change
today?
MR. KANT: I don't know.
Mr. Weigel, can we? Mr. Weigel's nodding his head, yes, sir.
MR. WEIGEL: You can.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Question on the board, board
members, on the ordinance section, whereas, property owners within
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December 17, 2002
the proposed taxing district request a creation of a municipal service
taxing benefit unit to pay for paving and drainage improvements.
Is there any willingness just to remove the word paving and
drainage and just put improvements and giving it more flexibility on
what kind of improvements can be done?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Let me ask, in response to your
question there, if we did something like that, would that, in any way,
impede your ability to find dollars to move forward, some type of
grant dollars or assessments or anything?
MR. KANT: That's an interesting question. I've never been
asked that question before.
Off the top of my head, I think that if we talk about public
improvements, that gives us a -- probably a wider range of
improvements to look at. We could even think of streetlighting, we
could think of-- you know, think of something. I don't think there's
a problem.
Mr. Weigel, do you see a problem with that?
MR. WEIGEL: Well, if you want to broaden it, I would suggest
that you leave in the language. Add any specifics, for instance,
including streetlighting and other improvements. Add that kind of
general clause which gives you the flexibility, but don't reduce the
identification of some el -- some elements of interest right now.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Does that get you where you want to
go, Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah, including but not limited
to paving--
MR. WEIGEL: Exactly.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Base road improvements,
paving, lighting, drainage.
MR. WEIGEL: And such change -- pardon me. Such change be
made not merely in the whereas paragraph, but in the operational part
of the ordinance where it's got powers, duties, functions, things of
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December 17, 2002
that nature too.
MR. KANT: Yeah, we will -- we can accomplish that,
Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And the reason I'm saying if--
I'm in favor of more flexibility by allowing more moneys from the
MSTU, MSTBU, and also flexibility. If we can't meet those goals
for the capital moneys for the improvements, at least that we can put
some limestone in there at the present time.
MR. KANT: I understand where you're going, sir.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. We'll go to -- I'm sorry,
Commissioner Henning, does that conclude -- COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yep.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We'll go to Commissioner Fiala,
then Commissioner Coyle, then Commissioner Halas.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. First of all, let me say that I
really admire these people for wanting to take the bull by the horns
and fix their road. I just think that's a wonderful gesture. So many
people just put their hands out and never want to participate, and, so I
admire them for that.
The second thing I want to say is, I would guess because they
came forward and said we'd like to tax ourselves, they would
probably accept a higher millage rate. As long as we chose that
millage rate, I would guess that they probably wouldn't mind three
mills or something like that.
I don't know how much that would be, but it wouldn't be that
much more on their property values, and yet it would probably help
them to reach their goal and maybe help you to get some grant
money to assist them.
And lastly, my main concern here, again, is safety. When I
received the letter from the Immokalee Fire Department that said,
they're sorry they can't service these people on these roads because
they can't get through on the roads, and same with EMS, and they
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December 17, 2002
can't get through to pick up anybody who's had an accident or a heart
attack, my thought is, we need to do something to step up to the
plate.
Our -- one of our goals as a county commission is to first take
into consideration the safety and welfare of our citizens, and that
certainly is an objective here. So I -- I don't know if this is too early,
but I would like to move to approve this -- the first one, which is
8(E), 8th Street and Doak Avenue --
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- just for the sake of further
discussion.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. And for-- to keep this
discussion going, I'll be more than happy to second that.
So we have a motion by Commissioner Fiala, second by
Commissioner Coletta. We'll continue.
We're going to go to Commissioner Coyle now and then
Commissioner Halas, then back to Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, as everyone knows, I was
the one who primarily objected last time to the way this would be
done. I in no way objected to the improvement of the streets, but I
felt that the residents were not being given accurate and complete
information about the implications of this particular approach.
A hundred and seventy-two dollars raised by an MSTBU is not
likely to generate many matching fund grants. It seems clear to me
that we're going to have to supplement those funds in some other way
in order to accomplish this. And I think we can begin that
immediately whether we have an MSTBU or not. We could have
done that over the past 30 to 60 days.
The -- the tendency to state in an MSTBU that the taxing rate is
going to be $172 for the entire community each year is misleading,
and that's what I wanted to get to. The tax assessment, as you've
observed in your response to my questions, is that there are severe
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December 17, 2002
penalties for failure to pay tax assessments.
If we set this tax assessment high enough to get reasonable
matching grants, we could very well put people in a position where
they couldn't pay the tax assessments.
So I would-- I would like to make sure that everyone
understands that two things can happen. Number one is that the tax
rate for the MSTBU can be raised, and raising it dramatically would
be necessary in order to get matching funds, grants with matching
funds, because even if you raised it 20 times, which would be 10
mills, you're talking about $ ! 700, or $3400 a year or something like
that.
So that's not a lot of money either. That's not going to get you
many matching grants eith -- I think the thing we have to understand
here is -- and I hope the residents understand it, is that they don't
want to get -- I hope they don't want to get saddled with an MSTU
that's going to hit them with more taxes than they think they can get
merely to try -- or pay, merely to try to get matching funds for some
grants that haven't yet been specified, okay?
And the second point is, that if we're going to supplement the
money, then let's get started on doing that right now. As
Commissioner Henning has already stated, putting down a better
surface on that road could be something that would be reasonably
easy and I don't think all that expensive right now.
So what I'm getting to is that I -- I will -- will support the
formation of this MSTU -- to cut short this thing. We've got a very
busy day -- as long as the residents understand the implications of
this and that they appreciate the fact that the formation of the MSTU
is going to require some contribution beyond $172 a year to get any
credibility whatsoever with respect to generating matching funds.
So I will support it, and furthermore, I will support -- I will
support looking for some funds outside of this, whether we set up the
MSTU or not, to deal with the health, safety and welfare issues.
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December 17, 2002
But I -- what disturbed me last time is that we were leading the
people to believe that for $172 a year, an MSTU, they were going to
get this problem solved. And I don't think that's the case. ! hope it
happens.
But, nevertheless, I will support it so that we can move on with
this issue, and my best of luck to the people who want to get this
done. I hope you're not hit with any unfortunate surprises in this
process.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And I thank you very much for
letting me go before you, Commissioner Halas.
You're right, you're absolutely right, Commissioner Coyle. We
don't want to mislead everyone, and that's where this has to be a
grass-roots movement from day one. They have to have the right to
reject it.
Now, there's one other thing that we didn't enter into this
discussion before, and I'm going to be very brazen, offer it as a
suggestion for your consideration now, or else we continue on the
same level that we are, is the public purpose end of this whole part.
For a nominal amount of money, possibly if we put an
assessment on these people rather than a property tax, which is --
really doesn't apply, because most of these properties, after you take
off the homeowners' exemption, don't exist as far as any valuation.
But an assessment, a small assessment would have some value that
would far exceed the taxable value. Possibly we could come up with
something where we would match it from the gas tax for public
purpose.
If Mr. Kant would explain what a public purpose would be in
this case, maybe that's something for consideration.
MR. KANT: Well, Commissioner, first of all, according to the
records that we have, I only show six of those properties that are not
at a high enough level to pay taxes. All the rest of them do pay
property taxes.
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December 17, 2002
As far as the public purpose, I don't want to get into legal
definition -- I'd leave that to Mr. Weigel and his folks -- but I think
that whenever you can look at any project which would have as an
end result either an addition in the property values, an ease of
providing emergency services, fire, police, EMS, or anything that, in
effect, makes life better for the folks that are in there, that is a public
purpose.
As I say, I'm not sure that that's going to fully fall within the
bounds of a legal definition. I do know that we've had a very strong
expression of interest from folks who have said, well, they'll donate
whatever necessary right-of-way there is.
We also know in this particular area, there are a number of
manufactured homes that may -- some of which may have to be
relocated on the lot in order to maintain adequate setbacks, that type
of thing.
We've tried to include in that figure I gave you an allowance for
that type of thing. But we also recognize that we may not want to
take the right-of-way in fee. We may want to take it as an easement
or license or what have you, to try to preserve those properties'
rights. I think the bottom line is, when we get that right-of-way, that
in itself is an expression of the interest of the folks in that area. And
as I say right now, we haven't seen any negative response to that
request.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Right. At this point in time I'm not
going to ask you to make it part of the motion. I'd like to go through
the rest of the deliberation.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Can I --
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: What's that, Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I just wondered when my time is
apo
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Oh, no. We're coming to you.
What I was going to say, I'm not going to ask to have it made
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December 17, 2002
part of the motion, but possibly after we hear the speakers, we might
want to consider it as part of the motion.
For now, we'll go to Commissioner Halas, Commissioner
Henning, then back to Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: First of all, I'll make this brief.
Number one is, I believe there was 80 percent approval rate by the
people there that want to tax themselves. Number two is, it's an
MSTU, it's a governing body that's picked. That's up to them to
decide how much of a millage they want to do. So I don't think it's
up to the county commissioners to decide what millage rate they
need. They'll make that determination themselves, and I think that
they're the type of people that will -- will address this. This is -- I
think this is where we need to go on this.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you.
Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Can we restate the motion,
please?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I just -- motion to approve as
written in the executive summary.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And there was a second also.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, Commissioner Halas, I
disagree with you. We want to make this happen for the residents
that live along there, that we need to provide the wherefore all (sic)
for it, and it is not in the motion, and I would like to include it --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: But 80 percent of it is, they've
already -- they've already approved that they wanted to do this, and
they --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Correct, but the capital need to
make those improvements. I think we need to provide -- set the
groundwork for it.
So I would hope that we can amend the motion to include some
flexibility with the -- the millage rate that's being set, as it was stated
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December 17, 2002
that, we can go up to six mills -- well, we go up to 10 mills, but
because of the other MSTUs in the area, the peak is, in this case, six
mills.
The other thing is the flexibility as far as improvements. If the
moneys can't be raised, at least it's a possibility that we could put
lime rock down there until the moneys can be found to do that. So
those are the things that I would like to include into the motion for
some more flexibility to make things happen for these residents.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: As the motioner, I agree with you.
I think that we should be flexible in the millage rate and that should
be discussed with these people, as well as I'd like to get the show on
the road with the -- you know, with whatever improvements we can
make until we -- until we can move forward with easements and
assessments and grants and whatever, at least to -- to help these
people along to have some kind of service.
So I will incorporate that into my motion, incorporating
flexibility in millage rate; in other words, let them help to decide
what they can do, work with our county -- county government to
decide the millage rate, being that the .5 was decided for them.
Mike, did you want to say something before I move on?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Actually, yes, I would.
For the record, Michael Smykowski, budget director.
The important thing today in terms of action is the creation of
the district. The district has to be created prior to January 1 to be
able to tax in the subsequent fiscal year, which would be fiscal year
'04 for the county.
If you adopt -- you have the flexibility, obviously, to adopt the
millage at -- you know, within the 10 mill cap, but if you chose to
adopt it at a half mill, one mill, you still -- the MSTU committee
could still petition the board, you could make a change subsequent to
next year's budget --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: That's exactly right.
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December 17, 2002
MR. SMYKOWSKI: -- and change the millage cap after the
formation of the MSTU group and see what their druthers are relative
to the maximum -- to the maximum millage.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: So in other words, with the -- with
the motion as it originally stood at .5, they can go back and say, we
would prefer to tax ourselves three mills, and all they have to do is
come back before us and-- for that approval, right? MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes, they--
COMMISSIONER FIALA: As long as we get this -- this actual
issue approved today so that it can be moved forward before the first
of the year?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes. It would require a subsequent public
hearing advertising of an ordinance to make that change, advertising
the intent to change the maximum millage from to half mill to
whatever mill was desired, but that flexibility does exist.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: But -- and it won't delay this?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: No, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. Okay, fine.
MR. SMYKOWSKI: And David, if you had any comments. I
think you're trying to --
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: David?
MR. WEIGEL: I do, just add a little bit. For instance, all the
ordinance does is set a millage cap. Whatever millage you set in
your budget process next June and beyond will be within that cap,
and it could be a half a mill, it could be -- if you set a cap here of five
or six mills, the ordinance will tell you how far you could go in the
budget process. But just by virtue of the fact that you would set a
millage today, whether it's the half mill, which would essentially,
realistically, require an amendment to this ordinance, which can be
done quite easily, or if you set it today at six mills, or even eight
mills, the county staff, county attorney and budget director, will
always come back to you and tell you what the legally available
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December 17, 2002
millage is within that cap that you set today.
So if you were to set-- to modify the draft ordinance to have a
higher millage cap, that infers nothing automatically in regard to
assessing or levying a millage on this -- on this particular MSTU.
An example, of course, is the Livingston Road Beautification
Phase II MSTU, which had, I think, up to three mills potentially to be
levied, and the board exercised in the budget process this last year a
determination that the best thing was to levy zero. You always have
that flexibility.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you, David.
Let's just see. Let's go with Commissioner Henning,
Commissioner Coyle, then Commissioner Halas.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mike, while you're there--
MR. SMYKOWSKI: Yes, sir.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Isn't it easier to go down?
When we approve a cap, it's easier for the advisory board to move it
down, because it would take amendment of the ordinance to take it
up?
MR. SMYKOWSKI: That is true. It would require an
advertised public hearing --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And that's --
MR. SMYKOWSKI: -- to make an ordinance change. So, yes.
I've attempted -- there's a 10 mill cap for county purposes and a
10 mill cap for municipal purposes. The taxing districts where there
are -- current MSTU levies are outlined, the Doak falls in millage
area 148. There's approximately two mills of taxation currently
leaving and untaxed capacity of approximately eight mills within --
within that 10 mill parameter, and for the Little League Road, which
falls into area 190, because that area is not in the Immokalee
beautification district, which has a one mill levy. There's
approximately nine mills of remaining capacity within that district.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Coyle?
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December 17, 2002
COMMISSIONER COYLE: You know, this has absolutely
nothing to do with creating an MSTU. The MSTU is going to be
created. That's not the point of this discussion. It wasn't the point of
the discussions last meeting.
The point of the discussion is being honest with the people so
they understand what it is they'll have to do, that's all I want to do,
and if people understand that for $172 a year they're not going to get
a quarter of a million dollar project done, okay?
Now, if they increase it to the max, they're going to get $3,000 a
year, and $3,000 a year is not going to get a quarter of a million
dollar project done. If they can get matching funding, if they can,
they'll get matching funding equivalent to whatever we can get for
$3,000 a year, if you're taxed to the maximum amount.
I suspect there are other ways to get some grants. But, look,
let's create the MSTU, let's make sure the people understand that
they're likely to have to tax themselves at the full maximum amount
of 10 mills, and there also might have to be some additional
assessments, and we might have to pitch in some money for some
other reasons, but let's be honest with them. Don't let people believe
that for $172 a year they're going to get a quarter of a million dollar
project finished. That's all I'm interested in doing. That's all I'm
interest in saying about this thing.
I'm going to vote for this MSTU. I've done my best to make
sure people understand what the risks are and what the expectations
should be, and I wish them all the luck in the world, and I'll be
supportive of that process. But this whole thing has been prompted
by the fact that we got a document for approval for creating an
MSTU for $172 a year, and the -- the expectation then that somehow
that was going to create -- that was going to solve the -- pay for a
$225,000 project.
But I've finished, Mr. Chairman. I'm ready to vote on it.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Halas. Then we've
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December 17, 2002
still got to hear from the residents.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. To start with here, these
people obviously, they wanted an MSTU, they probably realized --
I'm sure that most of them are -- know math, then they figured out
that it's going to take them a while at .5 mills to assess themselves
enough money to build a road.
I'm sure they're going to look into all the necessary avenues to
find out if there's any grant money out there.
What we're here today -- we're not here to set a level of what
we're going to tax them at or what they're going to tax themselves at.
We're here just to establish this MSTU and to get on the road, and I
think we spent enough time on this matter.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay, Commissioner Halas.
Let's go ahead and call the speakers. Before we do, obviously
you can see the intent of the commission is to establish an MSTU.
If you think that the direction is correct, you may wish to waive.
You served the purpose by being here today. But if you do have
some comments that are very important to the proceedings here
today, don't hesitate to bring them up front. How many speakers do we have?
MS. FILSON: Mr. Chairman, we have seven speakers, and
they're all registered for 8(E) and (F). Do you want them up twice,
or do want them to speak on both issues at the same time?
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I believe that we can probably cover
everything with--
COMMISSIONER COYLE: One.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: -- one time.
MS. FILSON: Okay. Your first speaker is Fred Thomas. He
will be followed by Leo Rodgers. If Mr. Rodgers would like to come
up front.
MR. THOMAS: Good morning, Commissioners. I want to first
thank you for the proclamation you did last meeting. I want to
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December 17, 2002
apologize to you for not sticking around for this issue that time,
because normally this is a slam dunk, it's an easy thing, and we
shouldn't have had any confusion, any question about it.
I want to thank you, Commissioner Halas, because you
understand what the real issue is. You truly understand what the real
issue is.
There was comments made at the last meeting that we needed to
just form a homeowners' association. If you form a homeowners'
association, you can't force everybody to be a part of it. So the only
vehicle we have to make sure we have a process that the residents
control, that begins to get us stepped up, is an MSTU. That's the only
vehicle we have.
Everybody's then forced to be a part of it. We had 80 percent
support for it. And then with that, we can look at what we need to do
to make things happen. I mean, just like any other MSTU, we can
look at it, count the money. And believe me, folks, poor folk count
money and move budgets around quicker than rich folks ever think
they can in order to make things happen. You understand?
So we understand all of these kinds of problems, and it's just --
should have had the same respect-- any other MSTU, any other
community, when we came up here to say what we needed to have
done.
You know, donate the right-of-way. And it may be that we just
don't give you an easement, we want to donate the right-of-way,
because therefore, you do not have a cash contribution to the project
when you go to leverage funds. You understand? All we're asking
for, like the boys did when they threw tea in the harbor, give us the
right to let us do our own thing.
Thank you very much.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you, Mr. Thomas, and
congratulations on your retirement. I expect we'll be seeing a lot
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December 17, 2002
more of you.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Leo Rodgers, and he will be
followed by -- and I hope I get this right -- Ramiro Monzono (sic).
MR. RODGERS: My name is Leo Rodgers, and I'm president
of the Immokalee Civic Association. I also work for the fire
department.
And I thank you-all for what you're deciding today. I think --
just to let you know, that we've had several meetings and discussions
with Mr. Kant and his office and the people that live in the area, and
I think they understand what we're trying to do, and they also -- if we
didn't get the MSTU going now to -- if we did find a grant, we'd have
to wait another year to put the money somewhere and to get this ball
-- this show on the road.
At least if we get it established and get things rolling, I think it's
-- that's what we need. And I think they all understand that, and
we've had, like I said, several, several meetings on this. And thank
you for your support.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is -- and I'm sure I got -- oh,
okay. I know I got it wrong, so I'll let him pronounce it. Following
him with be Ann Olesky.
MR. MAZANO: Hello, Commissioners. My name is Romiro
Mazano, and I'm talking about Doak Street. And all I'm saying is
that if they going to do a paver-- pavement, I mean, they can put
speed bumps on it, I guess. I don't know. Because there's a lot of
kids around. They might get run over, you know, so that's what I
want. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HENN1NG: Sir, I understand that we do
have speed bumps in there, they're just traversed.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Yeah. We call it the poor man's
speed bump.
Mr. -- Commissioner Fiala, did you have some --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No, I'll wait till the end. Thank
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December 17, 2002
yOU.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay.
MS. FILSON: Ann Olesky, and she will be followed by Ray
Alvarez.
MS. OLESKY: Good morning. Thank you-all for putting a
little faith in us.
If you notice, a lot of the representatives that are here from
Immokalee actually don't live in that area, but all of Immokalee
supports Immokalee and we're all going to make it happen.
And thank you again for moving us forward in the right
direction. And might I say happy holiday to all of you and to come
out and see us. Thanks again.
MS. FILSON: Ray A1 -- Ray Alvarez.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Nice picture in the paper, by the
way, Ann.
MS. OLESKY: We were laughing about going out on the lake
to see the alligators. And I thought if he wasn't a good boy, it would
be a one-way trip. That's when he cracked up.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: By the way, ma'am, tell me about --
the fish are biting, correct, at Lake Trafford.
MS. OLESKY: Fred Thomas, Jr., eats them up.
MR. BELLOWS: I'm Ray Alvarez, I'm the fire chief of
Immokalee Fire Department, and I kind of created some of this by
writing that letter last year, and I want to thank you for getting it
started for us so we can get moving forward with the life safety side
of it. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you, sir.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Terrie Aviles, and she will
be followed by Floyd Crews.
MS. AVILES: Good morning. My name is Terrie Aviles, for
the record. And I just -- again, as the rest of my community
members, I would also like to thank you for moving this forward.
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December 17, 2002
And I hope that -- we are talking about Doak Avenue at this point
and South 8th, but I hope we don't forget Little League and Traffic
Farm --
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: That's the next issue.
MS. AVILES: -- on that approval as well. And on behalf of the
residents of all these streets that I advocate for, I'm sure they thank
yOU.
MS. FILSON: And your final speaker is Floyd Crews.
MR. CREWS: Good morning. As you-all -- I'm elected just
like you-all are. And it became quite a problem a few years ago
trying to get these fire trucks and EMS vehicles down these roads.
I'd like for you-all to put you-all in the same position that some of
these people have been in in trying to get emergency help down these
roads. And this is what initially started this.
I hope these -- this taxing district does work, and I think we
going to find that there's several more roads that need to be added to
these special taxing districts. Thank you-all.
MS. FILSON: Mr. Chairman, I do have one final speaker,
Barbara Cacchione.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Good morning.
MS. CACCHIONE: Thank you, Commissioners. We appreciate
your action today. And the one thing I'd like to suggest to you is a
source of funding could be your Community Development Block
Grant funding in the 2004/2005 cycle. And we would be able to use
the MSTU as well as the dedication of property as a match in order to
apply for that grant. And we'd be happy to help through the
empowerment alliance. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you so much.
And does that conclude the public speakers?
MS. FILSON: Final.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: That will conclude the public portion
of this agenda item.
Page 54
December 17, 2002
Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Before we vote, what I wanted to
do -- I've been taking into consideration Commissioner Henning's
suggestions. And I just wanted to ask you, if I amended this to say a
cap of six mills, that way we wouldn't have to go back to amending
anything and they could adjust that accordingly as well as to include
flexibility to make initial road improvements, would this help --
okay. I've got the nods of approval.
Then I would like to, with the commissioners' approval, amend
my motion to include a six mill cap rather than a .5, and this allows
the residents to move forward as well as the flexibility to make initial
road improvements.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: All right. And I would second that
with the caveat that the residents shouldn't panic. Doesn't mean
there's going to be a six mill --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Right, right, right.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: -- property tax. It means that that
gives you the ability to decide what you're going to do to yourself to
move it forward.
Commissioner Henning, then Commissioner Halas.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: The flexibility in the ordinance
that you're talking about is to not only include paving and drainage
and lighting, but the possibility of lime rock improvements. Just a
clarification.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I think we ought to just leave the
cap alone and leave it at 10 mills and let the people out in Immokalee
make that determination of how much they want to tax themselves
for. That's all -- that's all that is. That's a maximum of 10 mills that
they can -- and they'll decide what they -- what they feel their
pocketbooks will handle. And to set a cap on it, maybe they want to
Page 5 5
December 17, 2002
go seven mills, okay?
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: The only problem is is that they can
only go six mills because there's already some millage to this, from
what I understand, correct?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: My understanding, they go up to
10 mills. Am I right or not?
MR. KANT: Mr. Weigel, can you comment to that?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And that's up to the -- that's up to
the people that have this MSTU.
MR. WEIGEL: The ordinance could have language in it that
says the legal limit, which is 10 mills. That doesn't set the millage.
County attorney and budget staff and transportation could come back
next year in the budget process and tell you, the board, what millage
is available in just setting the millage assessment. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: There you go.
MR. WEIGEL: So you could say 10, you could say six.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: The legal limit?
MR. WEIGEL: Yeah.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Up to the legal limit.
MR. WEIGEL: Up to the legal limit.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: But again, it's up to the people that
run the MSTU.
MR. WEIGEL: Oh, I agree with you entirely, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Am I right or right (sic)?
MR. WEIGEL: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: That's what I'm saying.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Do you amend your motion for that
particular --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'll amend it to 10 mills.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And I amend my second. Any other
comments?
Page 56
December 17, 2002
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Hearing none, all those in favor,
indicate by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Opposed.9
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: The ayes have it, 5-0.
Item #8F
ORDINANCE 2002-70, ESTABLISHING THE LITTLE LEAGUE
ROAD/TRAFFORD FARM ROAD MUNICIPAL SERVICE
TAXING AND BENEFIT UNIT - ADOPTED WITH A 10 MIL
CAP AND ADDITIONAI, STIPIH~ATIONS AND FI,F. XIlqII~ITY
Moving right on to the next item.
(Applause.)
MR. KANT: Commissioner, in order to make this as easy as
possible --
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Motion for approval.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
MR. KANT: -- it's the same exact issue.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: All those-- any discussion. All
those --
MS. FILSON: Public --
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Just to clarify the motion, it is
the same -- to include the same language that we approved in the
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December 17, 2002
previous item?
MR. MUDD: So it's not to exceed the legal limit and to add
other improvements.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And I include that in my motion.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And me in my second.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. Commission--
MR. WEIGEL: And this is an MSTBU.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: That's correct.
MR. WEIGEL: Both of them.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: That's correct.
With that in mind, I close the public hearing and we'll take the
vote.
And all those in favor, indicate by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: The ayes have it 5-0, and we're
going to take a short break. (Applause.)
MR. KANT: Thank you, Commissioners.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Merry Christmas.
(A recess was taken.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Take your seats, please, and we will
continue.
Item #8C and Item #8D
RESOLUTION 2002-507/DEVELOPMENT ORDER 2002-04, RE
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December 17, 2002
PETITION DOA-2002-AR-2567 and ORDINANCE 2002-71, RE
PETITION PUDA-2002-AR-2566; ROBERT MULHERE OF RWA,
INC., REPRESENTING J.E.D. OF SOUTHWEST FLORIDA, INC.,
AND COLONY CORPORATE CENTER, INC., REQUESTING AN
AMENDMENT TO THE "PELICAN MARSH" DEVELOPMENT
OF REGIONAL IMPACT (DRI) AND REQUESTING AN
AMENDMENT TO THE "PELICAN MARSH" PLANNED UNIT
DEVELOPMENT (PUD), FOR THE PURPOSE OF INCREASING
THE ALLOCATION OF MEDICAL OFFICE SPACE ALLOWED
FROM 9,000 SQUARE FEET TO 26,000 SQUARE FEET WITHIN
THE APPROVED OVERALL GENERAL OFFICE LEASABLE
FLOOR AREA OF 295,888 SQUARE FEET AND TO CORRECT
A SCRIVENER'S ERROR CONTAINED WITHIN THE
DEVELOPMENT ORDER FOR PROPERTY LOCATED NORTH
OF VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD (CR 901) AND EAST OF
I,IVINGSTON ROAD- ADOPTED WITH STIPI II.ATIONS
Next item, Mr. Mudd, is?
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, it's item (C), and that's a DRI for
Pelican Marsh, and (D) is also akin to it in the fact that it's a PUD for
Pelican Marsh, basically same item. Ray?
MR. BELLOWS: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: (C) and (D), 8(C) and (D).
MR. MUDD: That's correct, 8(C) and (D).
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. Let's start right off with -- I'm
sorry. I'm still looking for my agenda. This is an item that has to be
-- we have to swear everyone in. So would you, if you wish to
participate, please stand at this time to be sworn in. (The witnesses were sworn.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And we'll get the declarations from
the commissioners, starting with Commissioner Henning.
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December 17, 2002
COMMISSIONER HENNING: No further disclosures.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. And I have a folder here with
the different communiques that I've received. Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And no -- none further than last
meeting.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: None further since the last time
this was brought up on the agenda.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. And when Commissioner
Coyle comes back in just a moment, we'll go ahead and get any
disclosures from him.
Would you please continue, sir.
MR. BELLOWS: Good morning, Commissioners. For the
record, Ray Bellows.
The petition before you today is a PUD amendment to the
Pelican Marsh PUD and the development order amendment. The
amendment is a result of an agreement or memorandum of
understanding with the county staff to have the PUD amended to
increase the square footage of medical office uses from 9,000 square
feet to 26,000 square feet.
There are also minor other housekeeping issues associated with
this; however, during that meeting, as you recall, there was some
concem among some of the tenants that there was a shortage of
parking.
The petition was continued to allow for the developer to reach
some kind of parking solution. And Michael will hand out the
proposed solution by the developer. Basically they're going to add
20 additional parking spaces, and we have a master plan or site plan.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Mr. Bellows, if I may interrupt you
for a moment. Are the -- are the neighbors and the petitioner in
agreement on this?
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December 17, 2002
MR. BELLOWS: Some of them are. There's still a few that are
not completely supportive of it. They're represented by Attorney
John White, and he just handed to me today a memorandum
indicating their concerns that are still outstanding, and I believe he'll
be here to go into detail of what his concerns are still.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Well, has anything else changed on
this since we heard it the last time?
MR. BELLOWS: Yes. There is an agreement by the developer
to put on the record and into the PUD document a stipulation that
will provide for 20 additional parking spaces and a commitment to
work with them for -- with other solutions such as maybe designating
employee parking and parking designated for each of the different
buildings.
But the main gist is that they will be providing the required
number of parking spaces to meet code for the existing amount of
square footage out there and the existing uses. That wasn't on the
record last time.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: If we could, if we could-- unless my
fellow commissioners think otherwise, if we could concentrate on
what is different rather than rebring the whole thing up from point
one all the way forward, then we could go back and ask some
questions if we have them. I think that would be most valuable.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I agree.
MR. BELLOWS: Their commitment is to, within 30 days of
approval of the PUD amendment, the petitioner will submit a site
development plan amendment to show the revised parking
calculations to meet the actual square footage of the uses there and to
meet the actual parking requirement of the code. So the tenant
concerns of parking shortage will be alleviated, we will have
required parking.
And then within 90 days of the approval of the SDP
amendment, the developer will be required to actually put in the
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December 17, 2002
parking spaces. So we have a time certain time for the developer to
provide the additional parking. That wasn't part of any record last
time. That was negotiated during this last few weeks off.
The petitioner's also agreeing to limit the square footage of
medical office within this particular Galleria project at 13,000 -- or
12,300 square feet. That's a little bit less than was originally
anticipated, because one of their tenants that -- or perspective tenants
would not-- has not decided to pursue that option.
That's, I believe, the gist of the changes. It's outlined in the
memorandum of understanding that was developed between staff and
the applicant to restrict the uses until such time as the parking has
been corrected, and the staff believes this will be the best procedure
to correct those deficiencies.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Shall we go on to the speakers and
then --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: -- have our deliberations then?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yes.
MS. FILSON: Mr. Chairman, you have one speaker, Mr. John
White.
You're not Mr. White.
MR. MULHERE: No, but I am representing the applicant. I
hope I do have the opportunity to speak.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: You look-- you look like someone
else I know.
MR. MULHERE: Mr. Mudd.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: That's right. The high forehead.
The high forehead and the glare off it, that's it.
MR. MULHERE: For the record, my name is Bob Mulhere, I'm
with RWA, Incorporated, representing both J.E. -- J.E.D. of
Southwest Florida as well as Colony Corporate Center, Incorporated.
As Ray indicated, at the last meeting the board continued this
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December 17, 2002
item to provide us with an opportunity to answer some unanswered
questions and to also work with property owners within the Galleria
at Vanderbilt project relative to the parking issues, parking shortages.
And I wish that I could report to you, Commissioner Coletta,
because I know how much it pleased the board to be able to come
back here and say that everything has been resolved, and we believe
we have taken very large strides towards resolving the issues, and we
have certainly satisfied the staffs concerns; however, I do not think
we will be able to satisfy everyone's concerns within that project
short of removing a building, which is not a viable option for us.
We have hired a civil engineer who has done the calculations for
the parking, including the medical and general office. And I do want
to just go over what we are proposing to do to resolve this issue.
First of all, we have already agreed and will continue to agree
not to occupy some 7,000 square feet in this building right here until
we have submitted and constructed the additional parking. This plan
provides 20 additional parking spaces.
The 12,600 square feet of medical offices will require 61 spaces.
The balance of the project-- the project is about 70,000 square feet
-- some 57,700 square feet, when calculated at office requirements of
one per 300 will require 192 parking spaces.
Now, not all of the square footage in here is office. Some of it
is showroom, which has a lesser parking calculation; however, we
did calculate it on the higher office calculation to continue to have
flexibility for the owners as, perhaps, new tenants come in, these
types of things.
Anyway, the total parking required would be 253 spaces. At
present, this plan shows 255 spaces. So we've agreed that within 30
days of approval of the PUD amendment, we would submit an SDP
amendment, and at that time issues such as whether or not it meet --
continues to meet the landscape buffer, whether or not the water
management has to be re-engineered or it's sufficient to handle the
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December 17, 2002
additional impervious area, all of those issues are a function of the
SDP. We will go through that process. We will continue to not
occupy 7,000 square feet until the staff has had the time to review
and approve the SDP amendment to add these spaces.
At such time, when the staff approves it, within 90 days we will
commence construction of these parking spaces.
And we've done a couple of other things. Over the last three
weeks we have surveyed parking counts at various times during the
day. Seventy percent of this project is occupied. At no time were
more than 50 percent parking spaces utilized. We believe there is
sufficient parking there. We're going to add the 20 spaces to bring us
up to code.
The problems that also need to be addressed are really not an
issue for the staff or for the board because folks that have units in the
various buildings, when people come in and park, there's really no
designated parking. It's parking for the entire project. And, perhaps,
maybe all of these spaces in front of this building are occupied. So
someone has to park over here and, perhaps, walk to that building.
The association is currently exploring options to remedy that,
such as reserved patient parking, designated employee parking, and a
number of everything options. That really is the function for the
association, and they are working on resolving those issues.
I guess in conclusion, I would tell you that we have contacted
all of the owners and asked for their support, but we have not
received responses from all of the owners yet, however, we believe
that the majority of unit owners will support this remedy.
There are some that do not support it, and you'll hear from them
or their attorney. But I really think that summarizes.
Again, we have staff support. Once we have the approval, we'll
go in and construct the additional parking spaces. If there is any
problem during that review as to the number, again, we have great
incentive to resolve those issues with 7,000 square feet being
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December 17, 2002
unoccupied for the last year or actually longer than that, and continue
to be unoccupied until we can resolve those issues. We believe that
this plan does do that.
I know there are some concerns about whether or not the
landscaping will be reduced. We will still meet and exceed all of the
landscaping requirements of the code. We can't get approval without
doing that.
We'll meet the water management's requirements. We'll meet
all of the requirements of the code, and that really is the next step in
the process as it was outlined in the memorandum of understanding.
So I appreciate -- and I apologize that we have to come here and
tell you that we don't have complete endorsement, but perhaps it's
impossible to make everybody happy in every situation.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Mr. -- Commissioner Henning, then
Commissioner Halas.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Mulhere, what is the
occupied medical office use or the medical portion of the --
MR. MULHERE: Twelve thousand, six hundred square feet.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And that's today?
MR. MULHERE: Correct. And it will never be more than that.
We will put into the PUD a stipulation that it will never be more
than that in this location.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
MR. MUDD: Is it twelve-six, or is it twelve-three?
MR. MULHERE: I'm sorry, 12,300. Thank you. I apologize,
12,300.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: On this diagram, of the parking
spaces that are shown here, how many of these parking spaces are
actually not able -- you're not able to use, because if a person uses
one of those parking spots, then if somebody else tries to use the
other parking spot, it interferes, especially in the comer areas of this
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December 17, 2002
-- of the diagram?
MR. MULHERE: Commissioner Halas, with all due respect
this parking has been designed by a civil engineer to meet the code.
All of these parking spaces -- I mean, it has to still be reviewed
officially by the staff, but we did hire a civil engineer to design this.
I didn't design it. There was a civil engineer--
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'm just asking you that questions,
how many of these --
MR. MULHERE: Zero, none of them. They're all designed to
meet code.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Thank you.
MR. MULHERE: I'm glad you raised that point, because at the
last meeting you asked a question about the compact parking.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: That's correct.
MR. MULHERE: In this plan, it does show 16 compact parking
spaces, which represents about six percent of the total, which at the
time was well within the code, the limitations. It's not that there's a
great deal of compact parking out there.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Well, the problem is that we need
regular parking because we've got less compact cars today than we
do SUVs.
MR. MULHERE: Yep, yes. And all of the new spaces will be
regular -- regular parking sizes.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Any other questions?
Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Do we have a diagram, a before
and after diagram of this that we can determine what was changed?
MR. MULHERE: I can show you.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
MR. MULHERE: It's probably a little bit hard to see here
because there are red lines, but these will be additional spaces, of
which there are four. There are additional spaces here, again, four.
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December 17, 2002
Here, again four. Two here. I'm trying to find the other ones on
here. Oh, one here, one here, one here and one here, one here and
one here.
The total additional spaces are 20 plus or minus. And by our
calculations, under the worst-case scenario, including the 7,000
square feet, and actually calculating the entire balance on office,
even though we have some showroom, which has a lesser parking
requirement, you know, 18 spaces will cover it.
So we've got two, three or four spaces extra in there that, you
know, if during the SDP review we need to eliminate a couple as a
result of the water management review or as a result of Commission
Halas' comment or as a result of them maybe being too close to the
landscape buffer.
But, again, the civil engineer that designed this was told to look
at those issues, and I believe that we do meet the landscape
requirements.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. Let's take a look at the
upper left-hand comer of this pictorial that you've got here for the
additional spaces with the red--
MR. MULHERE: Yeah, let me -- let me see if I can enlarge
that a little bit.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Yeah, right up here in that -- yeah,
there you go. Now, when that -- either one of these people, when
they try to exit out of that parking spot and back up to make -- and
they're going to -- in one case they're going to make a right-hand
turn, the other case they're going to make a left-hand -- the rear of the
car is going to be going in the left direction, are they going to have
enough room in there to maneuver and -- so that they can move out
of that parking spot, or are they going to have to back out to the left
-- let's say we take the example here of the upper one in the upper
right-hand comer -- or upper left-hand comer of this diagram, does
that person have to back all the way out, or can he make a swing
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December 17, 2002
around on this little indentation?
MR. MULHERE: That's a good question. Actually, that's what
that little stub-out is for. It's to allow a person to be able to back out
and take--
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And how big is this stub-out going
to be?
MR. MULHERE: Well, I don't know. I can't really scale that
on this reproduction, and I didn't design it. It's exactly the same as
the stub-out that was already there, except now there's one more
parking space added. But the staff will review that as part of their --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
MR. MULHERE: -- approval process.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: All right.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. Is there any public speakers?
MS. FILSON: Yes, sir. Mr. John White is still registered.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Mr. White?
MR. WHITE: I'm right here.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Please state your name for the
record, sir.
MR. WHITE: Good morning, commission members. My name
is John White and I'm an attorney with Parrish, White, Lawhon &
Adler. I'm a registered lobbyist.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I remember you.
MR. WHITE: Right. And we are here in opposition to the
passage of this amendment at this time. We obviously recognize the
need to increase the amount of medical space from essentially zero,
where it is today, up to what the current existing medical space is at
this time; however, we're just not comfortable with what the
developer is proposing at this time to resolve the parking issues.
What you have before you here is something that was presented
to the -- to the building owners last week, and we've had absolutely
no time to evaluate this. And the developer is planning on submitting
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December 17, 2002
this as an insubstantial amendment to their site plan which, under the
terms of their -- under the code and under the terms of the
condominium declaration, the owners may not be able to either argue
or change anything around.
And at this time, we just need some assistance from the
commission to help us negotiate something that we might not
otherwise be able to negotiate.
At this time, the -- we're dealing with a total of eight buildings
that are in the project. The developer owns one building, and there
are six other building owners, six of them, that are opposed to
passing this amendment at this time because of the ability of the
developer to cram down this amended plan for their parking.
This is a very upscale project. And the owners didn't buy into
this project at the square foot prices based on minimum landscaping,
minimum parking, and they really -- it's a gorgeous project there.
And I think the owners have an entitlement to have something that
they expected when they purchased the project, which is something
above their basic minimum standards that can be crammed down
their throats in the process of what the -- what can be done.
And at this time, the developer has created his own set of
problems. He is the one that ignored his approved site plan. He sold
a significant amount of medical space in a project that was not zoned
or site planned to accommodate medical parking.
And so I think at this time it's incumbent upon the developer to
sit and work this out realistically with the building owners, and he
just hasn't done that.
And all we're asking for is the commission to delay this pending
the ability of the owners to sit down and work this out with the
developer.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: So you're saying six of the seven
buildings, the owners of those buildings are in opposition to this?
MR. WHITE: There are eight buildings, and six of the eight
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December 17, 2002
buildings are adamantly opposed to passing it at this time.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay.
Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. White, would you stand
over to this podium, please.
Mr. Mulhere, can you come up to the podium.
MR. MULHERE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: What is the level of
landscaping that's there today? Is it --
MR. MULHERE: It's far in excess of what the code requires.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
MR. MULHERE: And it will still be far in excess of what the
code requires.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Do you want to put that in an
amendment?
MR. MULHERE: You know, the thing is, I think at this point
we're designing the actual plan. I mean, we're being -- in a sense
we're trying to resolve this issue. We're coming forward with a very
legitimate resolution.
Did you want to --
MR. BELLOWS: I was just going to -- for the record, the
amendment is just allowing them to proceed to the site development
plan stage where we can address all the concerns. They are going to
be required to meet or exceed code requirements for landscaping and
parking.
So the tenants are assured that they're not going to get less than
what the code requires. The amendment doesn't address anything
other than allows them to proceed onward. They can't proceed
onward and then rectify the parking problem until this is done.
Staff is satisfied that they are meeting code.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right.
Mr. White has stated that the existing landscape is what the
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December 17, 2002
people bought into.
MR. WHITE: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And Mr. Mulhere has stated
that it's above the minimum standards. MR. MULHERE: It is.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: We allow staff to approve the
SDP without certain language within the stipulations such as
increased landscaping -- because that's what the owners bought into.
MR. WHITE: Absolutely. There are -- in fact, when you enter
this project, there are some beautiful landscaped areas, there are
some fountains, there's some -- there's some accouterments that really
create an ambiance in that community that these owners paid a
premium dollar for. I mean, very substantial premium dollars.
And this developer is now planning on creating an
encroachment into those amenities at their expense so that the
developer can continue selling and maximize his profits. That's just
not fair to the owners.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Correct.
MR. WHITE: Just not fair.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And on the visualizer today
we're talking about taking out some of this landscaping to create
more parking.
MR. MULHERE: Actually-- yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
MR. MULHERE: In this area here, yes, we are, Commissioner
Henning. And we are -- we are at a level that is probably two to
three times what the code requires in terms of vegetation, landscape
vegetation. We will still exceed the code when we're done.
We don't object to enhancing the plantings in those areas where
we're encroaching into the existing landscape buffer which exceeds
the code. We don't object to that. But we are probably two to three
times what's required by code out there in terms of landscaping
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December 17, 2002
already.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And the only point that I'm
trying to make is, that's what everybody brought into -- MR. MULHERE: I understand.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- bought into this project, is
that increased landscaping.
MR. MULHERE: And I would dispute the fact that six of the
unit owners object to the plan. We have sent out a letter asking for
concurrence from the unit owners. We have concurrence from some
of them. Some of them are not around right now. I don't know that
six of the unit owners object to the plan. Perhaps I should reword
that, because I think Attorney White said they objected to the
passage of this at this time.
The fact is, we need to get the PUD amendment so we can
submit the plan. We'll submit the plan to the staff. We will exceed
the landscaping after, because we're two to three times the vegetation
requirements currently on site.
But in order to maximize the parking, we've got to -- there is no
opportunity. We explored the opportunity to purchase some land
over here. That's conservation in the PUD, so we can't buy that land.
You know, where we encoach over here, there's a conservation area
over here. There's a vast area of open space behind that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Mulhere, one building is
not built, correct?
MR. MULHERE: It's -- they're all -- they're all built. One is --
7,000 square feet is unoccupied, and that condition remains in place.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I see.
MR. MULHERE: I mean, there's a great incentive for us to
resolve these issues, obviously.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: When do you plan to fill this other
7,000 square feet, and is that going to be medical also?
MR. MULHERE: No. We're agreeing to -- there's two things.
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December 17, 2002
We're agreeing to a limitation to the existing square footage of
medical in this location. No more. That will be in the PUD.
We intend to construct -- Commissioner Halas, we intend to
construct the parking within 90 days of the approval of the
amendment. And although we wrote the language to say an
insubstantial change, the staff has informed us that that has to be a
full-blown amendment. We understand that. The PUD will reflect
that we will amend the SDP to add the additional parking. And until
that parking is designed, submitted, reviewed, approved and
constructed, we cannot occupy that 7,000 square feet, to meet all
code requirements.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: But you -- but you plan eventually
to use that 7,000 square feet?
MR. MULHERE: Well, of course. We'll meet the code for it.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And you're going -- and then what
about the parking for that 7,000 square feet?
MR. MULHERE: That's included in this calculation. There is
suf-- that is included in the total 70,000 square feet.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
MS. FILSON: Mr. Chairman, I have one additional speaker.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. Why don't we go to the
speakers.
MR. WHITE: Could I make one additional comment?
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Briefly, Mr. White. Then we'll
address questions to you in the future.
MR. WHITE: Okay. The attachment that I handed out to you
includes the documents on the developer's letterhead from all six of
the unit owners saying that they are opposed to the passing of that
amendment -- of the amendment at this time.
And we'd just like to emphasize that the -- that the developer --
all we're asking for is to have the ability to sit down with that
developer and work out issues with him, to which he has not done at
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December 17, 2002
this time. Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Before we go to the first speaker,
we're going to -- Commissioner Coyle.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I have a question for Mr. White.
Can you tell me what it is the other owners want?
MR. WHITE: Well, we want something that's going to preserve
the integrity of the ambiance of that community.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: What does that mean?
MR. WHITE: Well, we don't know yet, because we've had a
very basic site plan, which you see here, which includes taking out
some landscaped areas that -- in different locations, that the -- all the
developer has done is create a very cost-effective solution that
benefits his bottom line at the expense of the owners that have paid
premium dollars to be where they are today.
All we want to do is -- we're probably going to have to hire an
engineer, we're probably going to have to hire a land planner or site
planner to come in to negotiate or work with that developer to get
something that is -- that works.
But unfortunately, under the terms of the declaration as it's
drafted and under the terms of how an unsubstantial amendment to
the PUD proce -- or the site planning process takes place, if the
developer doesn't like what we're doing, he can simply tell us to walk
out the back door, and we may have no leverage whatsoever short of
filing a lawsuit.
And this is a problem that the county staff has helped create to
begin with. If you look at the record, it's the past deficiencies of the
county monitoring the occupation process as this project is built out
that has put us in the problem we are today.
And unless the owners have some economical way of resolving
this problem, then unfortunately you -- what the county staff and
what the county is doing is putting the burden back on the owners to
best assure as they can, through litigation or otherwise, to preserve
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December 17, 2002
the premium they paid on the architectural and landscaping ambiance
of the project.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Let me see if I can't break
this down into segments.
If the developer provides the required number of parking spaces
and maintains the level of landscaping that exists at the current time,
what would be the objection to that? What harm would accrue to
your clients?
MR. WHITE: I think it's going to be difficult to achieve that
and -- but what I'm saying is, that we won't know until we have our
representative, site planners and professionals, work with the
developer who has hired professionals to work that out.
And if the developer knows that he has to come back to the
commission at some later date, then we have a much better chance of
achieving something that's fair and equitable, rather than if it's
approved today, then the developer can tell all the six people that
own buildings in there now to take a hike and pay absolutely no
attention and still cram something down that may not be in the
owners' best interest.
MR. SCHMITT: Commissioners, for the record, Joe Schmitt,
community development and environmental services administrator.
I would only caution that we're moving this commission into the
direction of actually trying to do the site development plan review as
we go through this process. I think you need to be able to depend on
staff to do this.
What we're trying to do here -- this is -- the petitioner has
requested to amend both the PUD and the DRI. Before he can do
anything, he still has to come in and staff this through both
community development and transportation to ensure that all the
stipulations that -- have been met, all the codes that -- have been met
before he can proceed to do the work this project.
What's before you today is just a proposal for the amendment.
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December 17, 2002
And I do understand and appreciate the concerns that the community
has in regards to the landscaping and the parking, but Attorney White
has you moving in another direction. And if we want to go there,
that's your prerogative, but I think what we really need to do, depend
on staff to do what it -- what you pay us to do, and that is to review
this SDP to ensure that it complies with the requirements in the land
development code, and we will do that.
We can certainly come back and report to you on that, but the
petitioner really can proceed today without the amendment. But
what they're doing here is basically amending the PUD so that they
can, of course, increase the office space, the medical office space,
and we'll ensure that the proper parking is there to meet that
requirement.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: But I need for you to clarify
something for me. You're saying the petitioners can proceed today
without our approval. Is that true?
MR. MULHERE: I can answer that. We could proceed-- we
control the common areas and we control the parking and
landscaping areas, so we could proceed tomorrow with an SDP
amendment to add parking to this site. That will not resolve the
medical office issue which is what the PUD is all about.
But we don't need -- we're trying to work with these folks to get
this to where everyone can live with it. But we can submit an SDP
tomorrow. If it meets the code, I assume it would be approved.
The amendment has to do with increasing the medical office to
make this site compliant with the PUD and to allow for some
additional medical office in the other area of the PUD that has no
parking problems.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, ifI understand Mr. White's
argument correctly -- and you can correct me if I'm wrong -- what
he's saying is that his clients bought under certain conditions that are
in danger of being changed now and they're being changed primarily
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December 17, 2002
because the owner of the PUD, the developer, violated the law and
exceeded the amount of medical space that was leased, and that Mr.
White's clients do not want to be penalized because the developer
violated the law with respect to uses on the property.
And I think that's the issue that we're dealing with. Is that what
you're saying?
MR. WHITE: That is essentially correct.
MR. MULHERE: And I understand that, Commissioner. But,
you know, those same clients will want the flexibility of having a
conforming use in the future that they can sell or re-lease or rent to
other folks. And this parking is necessary, and this PUD is necessary
to bring that into compliance.
I understand-- we understand. We leased 3,000 -- some 3,000
square feet of additional medical space that was not permitted within
the PUD, and frankly, it was the staff that immediately, upon
realizing that through the review process, brought it to our attention,
and everything stopped. And today we meet the code. We have more
than enough parking, because we can't occupy 7,000 square feet, and
we will continue to not be able to occupy that until we can resolve
these issues.
You know, frankly, we don't need -- and I don't mean this
disrespectfully. I mean this just informationally. We don't need the
approval, although we have tried to resolve these issues.
Are we agreeable to adding additional landscaping? Sure.
We'll do whatever it takes to try to make the owners happy, short of
unreasonable requests.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We're starting to repeat ourselves.
MR. MULHERE: I'm sorry.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I'm hearing the same message over
and over again.
What I'm going to do now is go to Commissioner Halas, and
then what we'll do is hear the speaker, the one speaker that we have,
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December 17, 2002
and then we're going to have deliberations and go from there.
Commissioner Halas.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'd just like to see the petitioner
and the occupants of these buildings work together and come out
with some kind of a plan that everybody can buy into. I think this is
the best way on approaching this whole matter.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Please call up the speaker, please.
MS. FILSON: Mr. Joseph Jamoos (sic).
MR. WEIGEL: We would ask the speaker be sworn in. He
may not have been sworn in.
MR. D'JAMOOS: I did swear. I did swear.
MR. WEIGEL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Please state your name for the
record.
MR. D'JAMOOS:
developer.
My name is Joseph D'Jamoos. I'm the
I've worked painlessly to work with a certain group of people.
One of the things that the commissioners are not aware of, there's a
civil suit pending, and this is what it's all about.
We know and we've paid a lot of money with the engineers,
with the architects, to evaluate. And this is possibly the only way we
can survive the parking -- the additional parking that we need.
I am at a loss of the 7,000 square feet. That costs me $145,000 a
year. That's a hardship for the developer. That's a hardship for the
building.
We cannot be able to go on this way, especially when we're
having such disagreements for no reason. The civil lawsuit has
nothing to do with this.
And there's one individual that has only 13,000 square feet that's
creating this problem. He has two or three followers who only own
3,000 square feet apiece. I own 42,000 square feet.
And I bent over backwards. It's cost me a lot of money and still
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December 17, 2002
is. And all I'm asking for is, just approve the medical for my other
part of the Colony Corporate Center which we have sufficient
parking.
On the other side where the confrontation is, we're only trying
to meet the code. I'm not asking for the parking to be approved
today. All I'm asking for is, approve the medical so I can go forward
on my other development. That's all I'm asking for. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you, sir.
I'll close the public portion of this meeting and entertain a
motion from the floor.
Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Commissioners, what I heard
was they don't want to -- the opponents of this measure don't want to
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Be left out.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- have just the minimum.
They want what they have today. So if we can include in the
stipulations to meet or exceed the existing landscaping and accessory
structures, such as architectural embellishments on the site as far as
the stipulations, that probably will meet everybody's concerns.
MR. MULHERE: We can agree to that. We would do that
anyway.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: So you're making that in the form of
a motion, Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yep, and I second.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right, with those stipulations.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We have a motion from
Commissioner Henning, a second from Commissioner Coyle.
Any other discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: All those in favor, indicate by saying
aye.
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December 17, 2002
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye..
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: The ayes have it, 5-0.
Thank you very much.
Move right on to the next item. We're going to break for lunch
at 12 o'clock.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, can you -- you've got to vote (C)
and (D), okay, and you did--
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay.
MR. MUDD: -- you just did (C), which was the DRI. We need
another motion for the PUD, sir.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, we're going to have to
ask for public speakers.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We have none.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: So I close the public portion of this
meeting.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: So we have a motion to approve
from Commissioner Henning, and a second from Commissioner
Coyle.
Any discussion?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I can't approve this PUD unless
we consider the -- as long as the developer works with the people in
regards to the parking issue and all the other embellishments on this
portion of the PUD that we're going to vote on.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Do you agree to include that also?
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December 17, 2002
MR. MULHERE: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENN1NG: Yes.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And Commissioner Coyle, with your
second?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Sure, that's not a problem.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. Any other discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: All those in favor, indicate by saying
aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you.
Item #81
EMERGENCY DECLARED. ORDINANCE 2002-72 AMENDING
ORDINANCE 72-1 WHICH CREATED THE COLLIER COUNTY
LIGHTING DISTRICT BY ADDING NAPLES PRODUCTION
PARK STRF, F,T IJIGHTING DISTRICT- ADOPTF, D
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, that brings us to item 8(I), which
is a -- which is 17(C), and it has to do with the Collier County --
Collier County lighting district.
MR. KANT: Edward Kant, transportation operations director.
Commissioner --
MR. MUDD: David?
MR. WEIGEL: Thanks, Ed. I was just waving to say I'm ready.
MR. KANT: Oh, okay.
Page 81
December 17, 2002
MR. WEIGEL: This matter is moved from the summary agenda
to the regular agenda because --
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Do I have to swear everyone in?
MR. WEIGEL: No, not this one.
It's an-- it's an advertised ordinance in the normal course of
things, but the advertisement did not appear in the newspaper. And
so for this to be adopted today, and particularly this year before the
end of the calendar year, because it relates to an MSTU ordinance,
it's necessary that it be heard today, and it needs to be heard an as
emergency proceeding, which is provided for under the law.
So for the board to go forward with this item, it will need to
actually take a preliminary vote prior to the vote on the ordinance
amendments themselves, and it will be necessary for you to
determine that an emergency exists and that it's in the public interest
to hear this matter today.
Now, as a side note, I want you to know that since it couldn't
meet the 1 O-day advertisement requirement required by statute under
the normal procedure, I went ahead and had it advertised, and it did
appear as an emergency advertisement in yesterday's newspaper.
And I'm going to submit a copy of the affidavit of publication and the
advertisement itself to the reporter for the record.
So it would be necessary at this point for this board to entertain
a motion--
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I'll make a motion at this point that
we consider--
MR. WEIGEL: -- finding that there's an emergency --
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Emergency.
MR. WEIGEL: -- and it is appropriate to hear this and in the
public interest.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And that it's appropriate to hear it --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: And I'll second.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: -- in the public interest. And there's
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December 17, 2002
a second by Commissioner Halas.
Any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: All those in favor, indicate by saying
aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA:
Opposed?
And the ayes have it, 5-0.
MR. WEIGEL: That's great. Thank you very much, and the
item can continue in the normal scheme of things. Mr. Kant, thank you.
MR. KANT: Thank you. Commissioners, Edward Kant,
transportation operations director.
This is, we believe, a relatively simple amendment to the Collier
County streetlighting district ordinance 72-1. We're adding the
Naples Production Park. That should have been folded in after all
that work had been done, and it was -- it had just gone on for a
number of years, and there was no money left in it. It was never
taxed for that, so that becomes part of the streetlighting district.
And then the other portion of the amendment, which is the (B)
part, there was a scrivener's error, a portion of a section of the
existing Immokalee streetlighting district was left out, and we want
to correct that mistake. We're not adding to the district. We simply
want to correct the description so that those people who are paying
taxes know they're in the district.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
Page 83
December 17, 2002
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We have a motion to approve by
Commissioner Henning, a second by Commissioner Fiala.
Any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: All those in favor, indicate by saying
aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: The ayes have it, 5-0.
MR. KANT: Thank you.
Item #9A
SECTION SEVEN (B)OF ORDINANCE 2001-55- WAIVED.
RESOLUTION 2002-508 REAPPOINTING KENT L. ORNER, SR.
TO THE OCHOPEE FIRE CONTROL DISTRICT ADVISORY
COMMITTEF, - ADOPTED
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: The next would be 9(A),
appointment to the Ochopee Fire Control District Advisory
Committee.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Second.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We have a motion to -- go ahead.
MS. FILSON: Commissioner, this gentleman has served two
terms, so you'll need to waive section 7(B) of the ordinance.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to waive the
stipulations.
Page 84
December 17, 2002
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: You include that in your motion and
how about your second?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And my second.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. And with that, all those in
favor, indicate by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: The ayes have it, 5-0.
Item #9B
SECTION SEVEN (B) OF ORDINANCE 2001-55- WAIVED.
RESOLUTION 2002-509 REAPPOINTING SABINA MUSCI TO
THE I,IFIRARY ADVISORY BOARD- ADOPTED
Appointment of member to the Library Advisory Board.
MS. FILSON: And the same with this member.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve with the
waiving of the ordinance.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We have a motion by Commissioner
Henning, a second by Commissioner Coyle.
Any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: All those in favor, indicate by saying
aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Aye.
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December 17, 2002
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
Item #9C
RESOLUTION 2002-510 APPOINTING BARBARA SEGURA
AND NORMA LESS-DAVIS TO THE GOLDEN GATE
BF. AIITIFICATION ADVISORY COMMITTFJE- ADOPTFD
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Moving right along to (C),
appointment of member to the Golden Gate Beautification Advisory
Committee.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve the two
applicants.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I second it.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We have a motion by Commissioner
Henning, a second by Commissioner Halas.
Any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: All those in favor, indicate by saying
aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
Item #9D
STAFF TO WRITE A LETTER ASKING THE COLLIER
COUNTY AIRPORT AUTHORITY TO DELAY ACTION AND
BRING THIS ITEM BACK TO THE BCC ON 1/14/2003
Page 86
December 17, 2002
REGARDING THE SELECTION OF A MEMBER FOR THE
SELECTION COMMITTEE TO PARTICIPATE IN THE SALARY
PROCESS FOR THE AIRPORT AUTHORITY'S EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR'S POSITION.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. Moving on to the add-on,
(D), discussion of Airport Authority to include commissioners on the
selection committee.
Is that correct, Mr. Mudd?
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir, and I have the letter from Mr. Monte
Lazarus, the chairman of the Airport Authority on the visualizer at
this time. He's basically asking for a representative from the Board of
County Commissioners to be on the selection committee and to --
and to assist in setting the salary of the new director.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: My only question on this was, is that
we are going to be having, what, a workshop or it's coming back to
us as an item?
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, on the 14th of January, I plan to
come to the board and basically go over the Airport Authority
ordinance with you and get your directions on what items that you
want me to change.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And basically this would be
inappropriate at this time, is that correct? How do you agree (sic)?
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, under the ordinance right now,
the authority has the wherewithal to select the Airport Authority
director without your consent and to also set the salary of the airport
director without the consent of the Board of County Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: It would be my recommendation to
this commission that we write a letter, that you direct the chair to
write a letter back to the chairman, Monte Lazarus, asking him to
delay any action at this point in time till we can bring it up for
consideration at the -- that meeting in January.
Page 87
December 17, 2002
MR. MUDD: The 14th, sir.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: January 14th. I'll make a motion to
that effect.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'll second that.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We have a motion by Commissioner
Coletta, a second by Commissioner Halas.
Any discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: All those in favor, indicate by saying
aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you.
Item #1 OB
RESOLUTION 2002-511 AUTHORIZING CONDEMNATION OF
RIGHT-OF-WAY AND/OR EASEMENTS REQUIRED FOR THE
CONSTRUCTION OF A FOUR-LANE SECTION OF
IMMOKALEE ROAD BETWEEN WILSON BOULEVARD AND
CR 951/COI.IJIER I~OIII~F. VARD- ADOPTED
Moving along.
MR. MUDD: That brings us to item 10(B), which is to adopt a
resolution authorizing condemnation of right-of-way and/or easement
required for the construction of a four-lane section of Immokalee
Road between Wilson Boulevard and County Road 951, also known
as Collier Boulevard, and the estimated fiscal impact is $5.4 million.
MR. STRAKALUSE: Good morning, Commissioners. My
Page 88
December 17, 2002
name is Gregg Strakaluse, director of trans --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Second.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Wait, hold it. We have a speaker on
this one here, but we can -- we'll take the motion and the second.
MR. MUDD: And there's some prerequisites that he has to put
on the record, sir, as far as condemnation.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Still, let me go ahead and announce
the motion made by Commissioner Henning for approval, second by
Commissioner Coyle.
Would you please continue.
MR. STRAKALUSE: Yes, thank you. My name is Gregg
Strakaluse, director of engineering construction management
department.
Item 10(B) is a condemnation resolution to acquire property
needed to expand Immokalee Road between Collier Boulevard and
Wilson Boulevard. Immokalee Road is currently a two-lane road, and
it's planned to be four lanes over the next two and a half years.
Your board previously approved a resolution on June 25th,
however, our designers have been able to further minimize impacts to
property owners, especially where storm water basins are located.
This effort truly represents due diligence on behalf of the county.
The four-laning of Immokalee Road is capital improvement
element number 71 of the transportation element of the county's
Growth Management Plan. It's also included in the county's
long-range plans.
The need for this roadway expansion project is clearly evident
as a result of the county's tremendous growth. The existing two-lane
facility is currently at a level of service F, which means that the
demands of motorists exceeds the allowable capacity of the road,
resulting in congestion and increased risk of accidents.
The improved section of Immokalee Road between Collier
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December 17, 2002
Boulevard and Wilson requires a minimum width of 138 feet to a
maximum width of 189 feet. The county currently maintains a 100
foot right-of-way for the existing road. The road cross section
includes four travel lanes of which the outside lanes are 14 feet to
accommodate bicyclists, a 50-foot median for turn bays (sic), and
two future additional travel lanes.
This four-lane facility is being built with the future six lane in
mind. The project also includes a new force main and new water
main.
The proposed roadway expansion requires the acquisition of
additional properties to the south because an existing canal borders
the road to the north. The acquisition of right-of-way on the south
side of Immokalee Road is the desired alignment also because
property on the south side is largely undeveloped land and zoned
agriculture.
Where there are businesses or where there -- where property is
developed, the designers have attempted to minimize impacts to
these properties. While staff will continue to negotiate settlements
without resorting to the county's power of eminent domain,
condemnation of every parcel could approach five and a half million,
which could include the cost of the property, the property owners'
attorney's fees, expert witness fees and other costs associated by state
statute.
Besides alternative routes, staff considered safety factors,
environmental factors, aesthetics, constructibility and cost. The third
consideration was given particularly to the location of storm water
basins.
Based on the material in my presentation, I'd ask that your board
approve the recommendations as outlined in the executive summary.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Coyle's got a
question.
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December 17, 2002
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Gregg, you indicated that the
ultimate capability of the road would be six lanes. We're acquiring
that much right-of-way.
MR. STRAKALUSE: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: In evaluating the design process
itself, is it -- is it important at this point in time to start giving any
consideration to high-speed limited access lanes that are going
directly from one destination to another, like from Immokalee to
either 951 or to 1-75 and consequently not have local exits and then
have other lanes that would service the local communities?
MR. STRAKALUSE: That's a very interesting design aspect to
consider in this particular road project. Limited access is something
we're considering on all the major arterial roadway systems. It's very
critical if you want to maintain -- get optimum capacity on these
roadways.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: But we can do it by dividing a --
designating one lane as local service and another lane as the through
lane and not providing exits from that lane. That is a common
process. I don't think it works well with a four-lane road. But if you
go to six lanes, will we have the capability to do that?
MR. STRAKALUSE: I think we could consider it during the
design process. If what you're speaking of is similar to a car pool
lane in--
COMMISSIONER Coyle: No, it's actually more than that. It's
a lane where there is no exit except at the two points that you've
chosen for the destination or the origination point.
MR. STRAKALUSE: Such as a frontage road?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: It's an express lane, exactly. And
so if you have a six-lane road, you can have two lanes that will
service all of the locals, and have a barrier or a curb or whatever in
the middle separating that from the third lane, which is a dedicated
high-speed access or high-speed lane.
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December 17, 2002
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Forgive me, Commissioner Coyle.
I'm going to interrupt for just a moment.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We need to stay on track with what
we're trying to do as far as this particular agenda item. We cafft
redesign a road in this particular time, but why don't we have Mr.
Feder comment on it. Maybe he can give you some comfort.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Wait a minute. All -- we're
talking about right-of-way. My only question was, will the
right-of-way accommodate that concept?
MR. FEDER: For the record, Norman Feder, transportation
administrator.
I think it's an interesting concept, Commissioner. And in
answer to your question, no, the six-laning that we're proposing
would not provide the ability to separate out two of the lanes, let's
say, as exclusive lanes; however, I think with the volumes that we're
looking at and are projected out there, what might well be an issue
that we should be directed is much like Livingston Road and 951
where you have designated them to be controlled access; therefore,
more requirements for wider spacing of median openings and access
to the facility. I think that probably is well warranted, because as
you point out, this is going to become a major connection between
areas of the county.
But right now, that could be accommodated within the six-lane
that we're talking about and it would be a controlled median openings
and access to the facility. Separated lanes, no, they're not included
and probably the demand that we're looking at in the future, it would
be difficult to warrant the amount of additional right-of-way
necessary to address that at this time.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Halas?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I think what we're looking at here
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December 17, 2002
is the right-of-way, and also we're looking at the possibility of
condemnation of lands, is that correct, for water retention ponds?
MR. STRAKALUSE: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: My question here is, what -- what
provisions are we as the county going to make so that we don't get
taken to the cleaners when it comes to this point in time for obtaining
this land for these retention ponds for runoff so that we don't
contaminate the water going into the canals?
MR. STRAKALUSE: Well, the fact that we are here today with
the condemnation resolution with new legal descriptions that lessen
the impact to properties along the corridor is a step in that direction.
The water quality is a very important aspect of this project. And this
road project has been designed for what -- to address water quality
and quantity.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I guess where I'm going at is that,
when we have to go through the condemnation procedure, can we put
forth some resolutions or whatever whereby instead of-- instead of
getting just one estimate up from a property appraiser, that we have
three estimates so that we have some validity to what we're going to
acquire and at what price, and if somebody tries to, let's say, hold the
county up, that we have some ammunition to go forth?
MR. STRAKALUSE: The appraisals we received are from
licensed land appraisers. We do put it through a review process.
These appraisals are more expensive than your average appraisal for
re-selling a home. They're in preparation for condemnation, which
makes them more expensive.
The review process internally, the county staff puts these
through at this point in time, is we take a look at these appraisals as
they come in the door and compare them along the corridor to make
sure that there is consistency and we're able to provide the county
attorney's office with the best defense possible going towards
condemnation.
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December 17, 2002
MR. FEDER: If I could add to that again, Commissioner.
Exactly what you're pointing out is a concern to us. That's one of the
reasons we've come back to you with this. We've done some level
of, if you will, value engineering on the project to evaluate what we
could do to make sure we minimize both the impact to the
community and also to the community at large, the taxpayers that
pay for this right-of-way acquisition.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: That's correct.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: If we could, I'd like to go to the
speakers, and then we'll come back to some deliberation and a
motion.
MS. FILSON: We have two speakers.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Oh, we have a motion.
MS. FILSON: Mr. Chairman, John Lukacs, and he will be
followed by Mary Wagner.
MR. LUKACS: For the record, my name's John Lukacs. I'm an
attorney. I am registered as well, and I have the privilege of
representing Mary Lou Wagner, the owner of an 18.69 parcel of land
located at the southwest comer of Woodcrest Drive and Immokalee
Road.
Ms. Wagner's property has been identified as one of the
properties that's going to be impacted, not only by the taking for the
travel lanes, Commissioner, but also Commissioner Halas, is going to
be impacted by the taking for -- excuse me -- one of the proposed
ponds.
In making a determination as to the public purpose and
necessity for a project such as this, the governing body looks at many
factors. Those factors have been summarized in the executive
summary that has been provided to you. One of the factors is cost,
Commissioner Halas, and one that you just brought up. And that's a
very important point here.
The original plans, as I read the executive summary,
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December 17, 2002
contemplated a taking of Ms. Wagner's property for a pond that
would have approximated six acres. That pond would have been
located across the entirety of the frontage of Ms. Wagner's property,
eliminating exposure to the roadway, eliminating access or impairing
access substantially, and also is recognized by one of the appraisers
that was retained by the county, would have resulted in an
impairment because of aesthetics.
The new plan proposes a pond which would be approximately,
5.29 acres. That pond is now lateral in that it's going to be, instead of
across the entirety of the frontage, it's going to only occupy 200 feet
of the frontage of this property and is going to run along the western
boundary of Ms. Wagner's property.
The question we have is, why? Why is this 18.69 parcel of land
going to be impacted with a loss of 30 percent approximately of its
frontage for this pond? Why is this 18.69 parcel of land going to lose
30 percent of its property for a pond and still suffer the aesthetics?
The one aspect of the summary that is notably absent is the
impact which this newly revised pond will have upon Ms. Wagner's
remainder property.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Excuse me.
MR. LUKACS: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Could I interrupt you?
The gentleman that keeps having his phone ring, could you step
outside, sir, and mm your phone off when you're finished? I'm sorry
to interrupt you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And that goes for anyone else in the
room. I'm a little tone deaf, and I can't hear them myself, but I'm
sure they're very irritating to other people.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'm so sorry.
MR. LUKACS: That's all right. Thank you very much.
The executive summary indicates that under the original plan
there would have been severance damage, Commissioner Halas,
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December 17, 2002
which is a cost to the county when it acquires property. And
severance damage is, as the county attorney will tell you, is a damage
that quantifies an adverse impact upon the remainder property.
That severance damage is not included in the executive
summary with respect to the revised plan. There's no treatment here.
This commission's not being told there's going to be an adverse
impact because of aesthetics, there's going to be an adverse impact
because of the limited accessibility because of a loss of 30 percent of
frontage across the front of the road. None of that is included in the
summary for your consideration in terms of whether you should go
forward with this.
Questions I have is, why don't this -- can't this pond, which is
200 feet wide, be shifted 100 feet to the west? Let two property
owners shoulder the burden of the pond on their property as opposed
to one.
Why not take this pond and move it entirely to the west on a
piece of property that's even larger as a parent tract in which the
impact may be less than 30 percent of the totality of the acreage that
can be developed?
Why not design this pond by simply moving it all the way to the
southern boundary of this property thereby lessening the impact
itself?.
Commissioners, you're doing the right thing in considering each
and every one of the factors that the law requires that you consider in
determining whether or not there's a necessity to go forward with the
plan in relying upon your staff, but this project begs those questions
as it relates to parcel 106 and specifically Ms. Wagner's property.
Ms. Wagner has been opposed to the taking of her property for
purposes of this pond since day one. She travelled here yesterday
from Perkasie, Pennsylvania, to be present in order to observe the
due process that you're providing to all of us.
I beg the commission to consider whether or not there are other
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December 17, 2002
viable alternatives that will lessen the adverse impacts that will result
to this property, and those are adverse impacts that I am not creating.
Those are adverse impacts that were recognized by a real estate
appraiser employed by this county in connection with the initial
design of this property, which recognized severance damages due to
loss of access, severance damages due to loss of exposure, and
severance damages due to aesthetics, all of which -- components, all
of which conditions, resulting conditions from this taking exist under
the redesign but are not otherwise reflected in the executive summary
before you today.
I would ask that the matter be deferred, particularly as it relates
to parcel 106 in order that further engineering, further design
considerations can be had.
I will note that I have met with your assistant county attorneys.
We have discussed this. They have been -- they have provided me
with much information that I have requested pursuant to public
records requests in connection with this project. And I thank them
for their cooperation in that regard. But this is a matter of due
process, and I ask for your deliberation on this matter. Thank you
very much.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I'm going to ask the commissioners
to hold until we hear the next two speakers, then you come back and
address questions.
MS. FILSON: We have one final speaker, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Yeah, then after we hear that
speaker, then we'll be able to sum it up. Write your questions down,
and then we'll ask them at one time. And I'll recognize at that time
Commissioner Fiala first and Commissioner Henning second. MS. FILSON: Mary Morg-- Mary Wagner.
MS. WAGNER: I really don't know what I can add to what Mr.
Lukacs has said. He's put the situation very well, except Mr. Halas, I
don't want any money from you. I just want my land. I don't want
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December 17, 2002
anything, but I do want my land, and I made that clear from the time
I first heard about it in April, and I have never gotten any reply at all
from the planning commission or from anybody in writing, not one
reply.
I got through on the Intemet to Mr. Coletta once, and that's the
only official--
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And you got a reply?
MS. WAGNER: Yeah, I did from him.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you.
MS. WAGNER: I did from him, and I think very well of him,
and I trust you-all will do your duty in the right way. But I do feel
this is the wrong place to put that pond. Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. Just a question. What is on
that land? I mean, is there a house on the land or is there a business
on the land? They were talking about exposure from the road. What
is on the land?
MS. WAGNER: Since you ask me, I bought that land about 15
years ago, and I bought another piece where the golf course is now,
which I sold to the golf course, and I got maybe a third of what some
of the other owners got.
This piece I paid three times as much for because it is on a
comer, and I feel that the best and highest use of that land is yet to be
seen.
I have been contacted by real estate agents who are representing
builders, and they tell me that all the land to the east and south is
under contract. And also across the street where the quarry is, they're
going to be 12,000 units. That's very hard -- now, you were talking
about maybe 20,000 people moving into that area within the next two
years.
I want to keep that land for a service area, which is what I
bought it for originally. And I held it all this time. I could have sold
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December 17, 2002
it any time. I don't want to sell it. I want to keep it. And I think
you're going to be so glad when you have 20,000 people there not to
have them choking the roads going a mile to the right and a mile to
the left for services. I think you need a few little things like the
cleaners and the bank and just small -- and you as a woman know
this. You know, we understand this.
And I'm going to keep it. I'm going to hold it until the -- until
the county feels that it's a necessary thing, and those are my plans.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And what was on the property next
door that you said --
MS. WAGNER: There was something on that.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay. So both properties are
vacant? Okay. Thank you.
MS. WAGNER: That's right. And the property on the other
side, where they originally intended to put it, is a golf course where a
pond would be a very nice thing, but the golf course, I think has a lot
of high-powered backers and they don't want the pond, so -- I don't
want the pond. So I hope you will take that into consideration.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you very much, ma'am.
MS. WAGNER: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I want to thank Mrs.
Wagner, and I believe it's her husband, coming all the way down here
to share their feelings.
My motion stands as stated, Commissioner.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. We have a -- okay.
Commissioner Coyle.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Tell me about why we selected
this parcel for the pond.
MR. STRAKALUSE: Very good. Staff is aware of some of the
concerns of the property owners. We're actually quite sensitive about
some of the issues a lot of the property owners have. With this
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December 17, 2002
particular parcel of land, our hands are tied pretty much.
Bill Grammer is here from CH2M Hill who can review very
briefly some of the technical aspects of why this particular parcel
was sited.
MR. GRAMMER: My name is Bill Grammer. I'm a
professional engineer and the project manager for CH2M Hill who
was hired by Collier County to do the Immokalee Road project.
And I've just got one quick overhead to show you. The way
these pond sites were selected were based on just more than what
property was available. The entire project is broken up into existing
drainage basins, and these drainage basins historically drain to the
same area, going underneath Immokalee Road itself and going to the
Cocohatchee Canal.
So what we tried to do is break the project up into areas to
mimic historical flow so we didn't run the risk of flooding people out
who weren't flood before.
This particular basin, as Mr. Strakaluse rec -- as Mr. Strakaluse
discussed, our hands are tied on this. There were two potential sites
within this basin that could have been used for these pond sites. The
Caloosa property, which Mrs. Wagner mentioned, and then Mrs.
Wagner's property.
Due to the constructibility issues and the economic issues
associated with putting it on the Caloosa Pines property, the feasible
alternative was to put it on Ms. Wagner's property.
Now, since we originally -- since we originally designed the
pond site the first time along, we have come back and made two
modifications which we've worked with the Collier County
right-of-way department to minimize the impacts to the property both
aesthetically and economically and have come to the conclusion that
the pond site that you see, that's shown here, is the best solution to
this -- for this basin area that needs to be drained.
Now, in having discussions with the water management district
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December 17, 2002
in terms of having to completely treat and attenuate the water before
putting it into the Cocohatchee Canal, we were required to fully
comply with environmental regulations.
Mr. Lukacs mentioned what would the potential be of possibly
moving this pond further to the west on the adjacent parcel, which is
actually vacant right now; however, that parcel is virtually located in
a wetland. And by moving the pond to the west, we'd be impacting
approximately four additional acres of wetland than we are with this
alternative that you see in front of you. At a minimum at a cost of
$120 thousand just to mitigate the site.
In addition, the existing drainage characteristics of that basin do
not warrant putting the pond in that location due to -- we'd be cutting
off flood patterns as they are right now. And by doing this, we also
would be encumbered by having to re-grade a lot of that property to
avoid making, you know, just ponding areas and causing flooding
problems.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you.
Let's go to Commissioner Halas.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Sir, was it -- I got a question for
yOU.
MR. GRAMMER: Sure.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: In the development of this pond,
who controls the size of this pond? Is this part of the southwest -- or
South Florida Water Management? Do they basically tell you the
size the pond has to be?
MR. GRAMMER: No. What we do is, as you can see the
outline I placed back up on the board, what goes on is you determine
the hydraulics of the actual -- this portion of the roadway, and that's
basically how much water is making it to this area from off-site from
adjacent property owners' land and then how much water is going to
make it from the actual storm water runoff from the roadway.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
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December 17, 2002
MR. GRAMMER: When you put both of these together, it
determines and dictates approximately how big the pond has to be.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. How long do you have to
retain that water in that pond prior to it going into the Cocohatchee?
MR. GRAMMER: It would be approximately 72 hours is when
it -- it complete -- it goes down in a 25-year event. It goes down to
normal pond elevation, which would be about one foot in the pond
area in about 72 hours.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay.
MR. GRAMMER: The ponds were designed as dry retention
ponds. So for most portions of the year, they'll be completely dry.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay.
Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: That just answered my question.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you.
Any other questions?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Seeing none, all in favor of the
motion, indicate by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And the ayes have it, 5-0.
Thank you for coming.
Item #10C
APPROVE THE AWARD AND SUBSEQUENT CONSTRUCTION
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December 17, 2002
CONTRACT FOR THE NORTH COUNTY WATER
RECLAMATION FACILITY EXPANSION TO 24.1-MILLION
GALLONS PER DAY MAXIMUM MONTH AVERAGE DAILY
FLOW TO ENCORE CONSTRUCTION COMPANY, PROJECT
73950, BID 02-3418, IN THE BASE BID AMOUNT OF
$24,861,000 - APPROVED; STAFF TO COME BACK WITH THE
FINAl, AWARD
Move right on to --
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, the next item 10(C), and that's to
approve the award and subsequent construction contract for the north
county water reclamation facility expansion to 24.1 million gallons
per day.
MR. DeLONY: For the record, I'm Jim DeLony, your public
utilities administrator.
The purpose of this item is to approve a contract award to
expand the existing north county water reclamation facility from the
current 17.6 million gallons per day, maximum month average daily
flow, to a facility that will handle 24.1 million gallons per day.
This project is a mandatory requirement. It was imposed upon
the county. The Florida environmental protection agency's 10 April,
2001 consent order, of which this commission approved in-- 10th of
April in 2001, and it -- then its amendment, further amendment of 30
July, 2002. The capacity increment and the 1 January, 2005
completion date are mandatory and specific to this consent order.
Now, this project award consists of adding two new clarifiers,
eight new aeration basins, eight effluent filters, an expanded chlorine
contact building and tank, an expanded blower (sic) building, new
electrical service building with two standby generators,
instrumentation controls, and expanded disinfection facility.
Five bids were received and opened on the 7th of November of
this year for this project. The lowest responsive response -- the
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December 17, 2002
lowest responsive responsible bidder is Encore Construction
Company from Winter Garden, Florida at a price of approximately
$24.8 million. Our estimate going in ranged from 27 to $29 million.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Motion to approve.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Go ahead. We've got a motion to
approve, and we'll go --
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I second.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And we have a second by
Commissioner Halas.
Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. I have no problem with this
award. But my concern is the contract isn't in the package, and so I
would -- I would like to say that before final approval, this $24
million comes back to us to see that contract. I feel uncomfortable -- MR. DeLONY: Yes, ma'am. That -- we will. This is just a
request for you to approve the award. We will --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Can we put that in the motion?
MR. DeLONY: -- subsequently come back. Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Because it doesn't say that in here.
MR. DeLONY: Let me make --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So amended.
MR. DeLONY: -- very clear, we will come back to the board
with a specific contract for your approval.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Very good.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Let it be noted that Commissioner
Henning has included that in his motion, and Commissioner Halas
has agreed to that.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: The second, yes.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Coyle?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We've had some difficulty with
failure of some of the contractors to meet the required project dates.
To what extent have we investigated the background of the bidder
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December 17, 2002
that we're planning to award this contract to? And to what extent
have they accomplished their projects on time?
MR. DeLONY: With regard to that material today, I don't have
it today, sir. I can provide that to you specifically. But with regard
to the due process that we follow with regard to the award process,
we have found them to be responsive and responsible with regard to
the context of the solicitation.
So at this stage, that's about the best answer I can give you.
You know, everything has got its specifics as to why we have certain
problems on certain projects, and we are working as a delivery team,
that would be the county manager's office, as well as the clerk's
office, looking at these types of issues as we move forward with, not
only this large project, sir -- and I think you're thinking like I am --
about the fourth and fifth ones that we have over the next series of
years.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes.
MR. DeLONY: And certainly that is something I will continue
to strive to answer in the specific. But today, that's the best answer I
have for you.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Do we routinely check their
references to determine their performance on --
MR. DeLONY: Absolutely.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- past projects?
MR. DeLONY: That is very clearly prescribed by county
procurement policy.
aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay, thanks.
MR. DeLONY: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA:
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA:
Any other comments?
All those in favor, indicate by saying
COMMISSIONER HALAS' Aye.
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December 17, 2002
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And the ayes have it, 5-1
Thank you very much.
MR. DeLONY: Yes, sir.
(sic).
Item # 1 OD
APPROVE PROFFESSIONAL SERVICES AGREEMENT NO. 02-
3398 IN THE AMOUNT OF $1,404,387.00 FOR DESIGN AND
ENGINEERING SERVICES TO BE PROVIDED BY CH2M HILL,
INC., FOR ROADWAY IMPROVEMENTS TO COLLIER
BOULEVARD, BETWEEN GOLDEN GATE BOULEVARD AND
IMMOKALEE ROAD, PROJECT NO. 65061 - APPROVED
W/MODIFIED SCOPE
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Next item was --
MR. MUDD: Next item, Commissioner, is --
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: -- is item 10(D), which was formerly
16(B)(5), a professional service agreement.
MR. MUDD: And this --
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: -- for Collier Boulevard.
MR. MUDD: And this has to do with Collier Boulevard design
and engineering for CH2M Hill. And the reason that it's -- where it
sits right now is some commissioners asked the question, why does it
from -- why does Collier go from Immokalee down to Vanderbilt as
six-lane and then only goes four-lane from Vanderbilt Beach Road
down to Golden Gate Boulevard; wouldn't it be smarter to go
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six-lane from Golden Gate Boulevard north all the way to Immokalee
Road because you're getting what's coming off of Collier Boulevard
and they're going to six-lane Vanderbilt, too, so it would seem to
make more sense, instead of having a choke point at Vanderbilt
Beach Drive?
And Norman?
MR. FEDER: And the answer to the question is yes. It would
make more sense.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve.
MR. FEDER: We would not do construction twice, and there
would be savings. Plus, we are adding into the program, as will be
coming to you shortly, construction between Green and Golden Gate
Boulevard to six-lane that in 2007; therefore, it would make no sense
not to do the six-laning down to Golden Gate Boulevard at this time.
We've also been told by the consultant that they will do that,
since it was intended to be in the six-lane right-of-way, at no
additional cost. So, therefore, we would ask on this agenda item that
the recommendation be to approve the contract with a modified
scope that it be for six-laning down to Golden Gate Boulevard at no
additional cost and authorizing the chairman to sign on that.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Motion to approve with
modification of scope.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Second.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: That was what my button was On
for. Being that I pulled it, I wanted to make that a motion. But you
may -- I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We thank you for pulling it,
Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: So we have a motion from
Commissioner Coyle, and I'll recognize the second from
Commissioner Fiala because she pulled it.
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December 17, 2002
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Even though he didn't have his
button on.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: But we also thank Commissioner
Henning with a quick call on that too.
With that, any other discussion?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Hearing none, all those in favor,
indicate by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And thanks, Norm.
MR. FEDER: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you very much.
Good work, Commissioner Fiala.
Item # 12A
APPROVE A SETTLEMENT PROPOSAL FOR RICKETTS
ENTERPRISES OF NAPLES INC., ET AL V. BOARD OF
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS FOR COLLIER COUNTY,
FLORIDA, ET AL, CASE NO. 2:01-CV-76-FTM-29DNF, NOW
PENDING IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR
THE MIDDLE DISTRICT OF FLORIDA- STAFF TO MOVE
FORWARD WITH I.ITIGATION
MR. MUDD: The next item, Commissioner, is -- I would ask
that the public comments be after the -- before we finish up, after we
get done with our time certain that's at -- that is at one o'clock. Do
we have any public comment --
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December 17, 2002
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: That's agreeable.
MR. MUDD: -- at this juncture?
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. Let's--
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Which one is this?
MR. MUDD: Our next item is --
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: 16(K)6, which is now 12(A),
correct?
MR. MUDD: That's the alleged Ricketts -- the alleged Ricketts
discrimination case.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I don't think this needs a lot of
discussion.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I don't either.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I think we're just going to make
a motion not to approve this item and direct staff to move forward
with the litigation on this.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I'll second that.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Go after it.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Yeah, you better believe it.
So Commissioner Henning made the motion, Commissioner
Fiala made the second.
And no discussion, so all those in favor, indicate by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Mr. Mudd, does that conclude our
regular agenda other than the one there for the time certain at 10
o'clock (sic).
MR. MUDD: At one o'clock.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: One o'clock.
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December 17, 2002
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir, it does.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I was going to say, it's all over with.
MR. MUDD: I think it's a great time to break for lunch, sir.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I would like to make one
observation before we leave. I think this is the first time since I've
served on this board we have ever completed our deliberations on
schedule.
MR. MUDD: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And the reason being --
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: There's a cause and effect to this. I
told the commissioners we could not go to lunch until they completed
it. So we know that the way to a man's heart is through his stomach.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And the lady, too.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And the lady, too.
(A luncheon recess was taken.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Take your seats, please. I'm going to
ask you to make sure if your cell phones are on -- that for some
reason you turn them to vibratory mode and it goes off, please step
outside the room at that time so we can keep the background noise at
a minimum so we can hear what everybody has to say.
Thank you very much for coming today.
We'll start right off with you.
Item #8H
CONSIDERATION OF AN ORDINANCE THAT ESTABLISHES
A COLLIER COUNTY HUMAN RELATIONS COMMISSION-
DENIED W/STAFF DIRECTED TO BRING BACK AN
ORDINANCE WITH ZFRO TOIJFRANCE
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, this is -- this is item 8(H), which
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is time certain for one o'clock today. This is the consideration of an
ordinance that establishes a Collier County human relations
commissioner. And I'll turn it over to Leo Ochs.
MR. OCHS: Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, members of the
board. For the record, my name is Leo Ochs, deputy county
manager.
I'm here this afternoon to present for your consideration an
ordinance creating a human relations commission here in Collier
County.
The ordinance before you today is the result of a fairly lengthy
process that began back in July of 2001 when the county
commission, after considerable discussion from the public, directed
then county manager Tom Olliff to work with the county attorney's
office as well as with Ms. Laverne Franklin, the president of the
Collier County chapter of the NAACP and other interested
individuals and organizations in the community to develop this draft
document for your consideration.
During those intervening months, staff both from the county
manager's office and the county attorney's office have been busy
conducting research on similar ordinances that may or may not exist,
both within the State of Florida and also other areas of the country.
We've also been soliciting public input into the series of draft
ordinance documents that have gone through the draft process.
I would say that the primary goal, as you'll read in your
ordinance, of a human relations commission is to promote and
protect the civil and human rights of all the Collier County residents.
The commission itself is intended under the ordinance to serve
as a public forum for discussion, for education and for
recommendations to the county commission on matters affecting
human relations and civil rights issues here in our community.
And while I believe that there is general agreement on that
over-arching goal of this ordinance, I also acknowledge that there are
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substantial disagreements among certain individuals over different
aspects of this ordinance and how best to achieve that over-arching
goal. And I'm sure that you'll hear from all sides of those various
interests as you hear the public speakers this afternoon.
I would like to take a couple minutes and turn this over to
Jacqueline Hubbard Robinson, assistant county attorney, who has
been working under David Weigel's direction to actually craft the
ordinance in front of you today, just spend a few minutes
summarizing the important aspects of the ordinance. Jackie?
MS. ROBINSON: Thank you. Good afternoon,
Commissioners, and the members of the public.
The ordinance -- I hope you have copies of it before you.
Basically in the whereas clauses, it manifests an intent on the part of
the county to protect and oppose discrimination against the various
groups that are mentioned in the ordinance. And most of those
groups are already mentioned in other existing ordinances on the
federal level except one group, which is the sexual orientation group.
And in our studies of other ordinances, we found that they ran
the gamut from basically being just a resolution to having an entire
department set up purely for the purposes of human relations.
This ordinance under the instruction of the then county
manager, who was very active in structuring the structure that this
ordinance should take, he basically wanted to ensure -- as I
understood the direction, he wanted to ensure that there would be, on
the part of Collier County, some forum that existed which would
allow members of the community to air their concerns regarding
discrimination.
The intent of the ordinance as written is not going to provide
individual independent hearings, although that is a possibility, but the
intent of the ordinance is to provide a forum and a mechanism for
educating the public regarding issues in which persons in the
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community allege they have been discriminated against.
There are a couple of matters in this ordinance that I think it's
important that I bring to your attention. First of all, the creation --
this ordinance that is before you today really only serves one
purpose. In spite of all of the things you may hear later today or
things you may have read, a careful reading of the ordinance will
show that the ordinance in front of you today is merely to create the
human relations commission.
The parameters under which the human relations commission
would function would be the second step of this process. Also, the
commission would be composed of 11 citizens of the community,
and five of those would be representatives of the business community
in the area, and we're talking about having at least five out of the
seven commission members being from retail merchandising,
management, industrial management, real estate sales, hospitality,
health services, agriculture, financial services, construction, and law
enforcement.
So five of the 11 -- and all of the 11 will be appointed by the
Board of County Commissioners, but five of the 11 members would
be people who traditionally have been the focus of these allegations.
So the commission would not be composed merely of people who
traditionally bring the allegations. Almost half of the commission
would be composed of persons from the communities against which
most of these allegations are often made.
It also should be noted that in the ordinance the members will be
set up on an overlapping basis and may not serve more than two
consecutive terms.
Also, section two talks about the definitions -- and there are
only three in this ordinance -- to protect the class, which has been
previously mentioned, discrimination, and the general definitions
will be as they are currently existing in existing statutes.
Section three involves findings, and that's on page three. Now,
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the findings that the Board of County Commissioners are asked to
approve are relatively simple, and that is that the Board of County
Commissioners find and declares that intolerance, bigotry,
discrimination and the disorder occasioned thereby threaten the civil
rights and privileges of the inhabitants of the county and menace its
institutions.
This direction to draft this ordinance came out of a very trying
historical moment in Collier County in which there was a shooting of
a young African-American man in the River Park section of the City
of Naples by a police officer, and this resulted in quite a bit of
community disharmony. And as a result, the Board of County
Commissioners had a public hearing. And at that public hearing
numerous people from the community came before the board and
talked about this notion of forming a human relations commission.
If the human relations commission as it is envisioned in this
ordinance was in place -- had been in place at the time of that
incident, then it would have presented a forum for the people of the
community to come forward and express their concerns. And that's
basically what this ordinance is cut out to do.
The very last paragraph of this ordinance says in no uncertain
terms that -- that nothing -- and that's on page 11 in section 10, it
says that nothing herein is intended to nor shall create an independent
cause of action for damages or other judicial relief without specific
authorization by ordinance approved by the Collier County Board of
County Commissioners.
So this commission would not have the ability nor would its
actions result in any type of cause of action. It is being created, if
you agree that it should be created, to educate the public and to have
available to the public when needed a forum where they can come
and address issues that are relevant to human relations.
And if those issues involve complaints that people or groups of
people -- and it is envisioned that this ordinance would pertain more
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to groups of people than individual people, and I will explain why in
just a moment -- that groups of people in the community, whomever
they may be, would have a place to come and present to a group of
people appointed by the board to discuss issues that affect them and
their perceptions of discrimination against them.
The purpose of the ordinance is set forth in section four on page
four, and the purpose of the ordinance -- and bear in mind that the
commission can only operate within the parameters of the policies
and procedures of Collier County. That's in the ordinance and it's
important to remember that.
The general purpose of the ordinance, however, is to provide
information, assistance, and education within Collier County of the
policies embodied in existing civil rights laws, including the Florida
Civil Rights Act, Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the age
discrimination and employment right of 1967, Title VIII of the
Federal Civil Rights Act, which pertains to fairness in housing and
also includes provisions that are relevant to the issue of adult living
facilities and housing for the age -- aged, that's Title VIII, the fair
housing amendments act of 1988, the Americans with Disabilities
Act of 1999 -- '90, the Civil Rights Act of 1991, and all of these as
amended, and, of course, the Florida Civil Rights Act of 1992.
And so the first duty and purpose of the commission is to
provide information, assistance and education within Collier County
of how people can go about utilizing the existing statutory provisions
both on a state and federal level that they may or may not know
about.
Secondly, the purpose of the ordinance is to assist these
individuals to attain freedom from discrimination through -- if you
turn to page five, you know, I repeat all of those other areas. But if
you turn to page five and you look at the last phrase in that section
one -- section 1 (B) which says, through public discussions, forums,
investigation of complaints, which is the same issue that I said I
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would return to, findings, and the taking of positions on issues
properly brought before it for determination, assistance, and
investigation.
In section five -- and I will -- I'll come back to that section
because I realize that it's very important to do so -- the human
relations commission under this ordinance is only set up to convene
at least four times a year. So this commission, which would be
composed of volunteers appointed by the county commission, is
obviously not the kind of commission that would be equipped to
handle the day-to-day, mundane discrimination complaints that
individuals would have, although it would be able to refer those
individuals off and provide educational materials to them. It would
not really be equipped to substitute for them, because that's not what
its purpose is.
The meetings are set up quarterly unless the board decides to
meet more often than that.
Now, it takes seven members, if you look at section 5.2 on page
five. It takes seven members of the commission for a quorum. And
bear in mind that five of the appointees must come primarily from
the business and real estate and hotel sectors.
So two other members of the commission who may or may not
come from that sector, with those five, would compose a quorum. So
if there's concern regarding whether or not the commission is tipped
or imbalanced from the point of view of both the parties against
whom traditionally these accusations have been made, businesses and
so forth, and the people who make them, built into the ordinance is
this mechanism to prevent that.
So if the five members at least from the business, real estate,
hotel or community are active members of the commission, they
would certainly have been able to have a great deal to say about what
the commission does, since at least five of them must be on it, and
two plus those five would constitute a quorum in order for any action
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to be taken.
Now, the objectives of the ordinance, which are in section six on
page six, I think it's really important that the ordinance be viewed
both in terms of what the purpose of the ordinance is, which is what
we've just gone through, and what the objectives of the commission
are, as set forth in section six.
And if you look at those objectives of the human relations
commission, you will see that as the ordinance is drafted, in A, they
are to promote and encourage fair treatment, excuse me, in B, to
cooperate with governmental and nongovernmental agencies, to
assist various groups in the community to cooperate, to aid in
permitting the county to benefit from the fullest utilization of its
human resources, to recommend that the county accept grants and
contracts from foundations and things of that nature. And those are
the objectives.
You don't see any objective in that list that says that this human
relations commission will substitute as some type of investigative
body in order to provide a forum for people or even a mechanism for
people to come and file lawsuits against people. It's not there.
Now, one of the areas in which we have gotten comments on is
this notion of investigation. And I can assure you that the intent of
the drafters of the ordinance was investigation in a very loose sense
of the word, in the sense of being able to make an inquiry into what
an allegation may be or what an allegation might be, and not to
investigate in the sense of having any subpoena powers.
Because you will notice that in this ordinance the human
relations commission has no subpoena power. It can't force anybody
to come and testify. It has no means of doing that type of
investigation, nor is that kind of investigation intended by the
drafters of the ordinance.
This ordinance objectives are as set forth in section six, and
that's what the -- the human relations commission is to educate and
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prepare and present a forum for these types of issues to be worked
out.
Now, the objectives and the purpose need to also be read in
conjunction with section seven, which are the powers and duties of
the commission under this proposal that's before you.
Now, if you look at the powers on page seven, once again in A,
it talks about working together with federal, state and local agencies
in developing courses of instruction and educational things of that
nature, in B, to encourage equality of treatment and discourage
discrimination, and in C, to study, to hold public meetings and
forums, to make recommendations and findings concerning the
problems of prejudice, intolerance, bigotry and discrimination, and
D, once again, to investigate, receive complaints pertaining to these
issues.
As I said before, there is no definition of investigation in the
ordinance. And that terminology is certainly intended to mean an
inquiry into the circumstances that caused a person to come and
bring a complaint or group of persons to come and bring a complaint.
It does not have the power to conduct what is traditionally
called an investigation. But it does give the commission the ability
to ask certain questions.
Now, the issue -- it also is to issue a report annually, both to the
county and to the municipalities in the county regarding what they
observed during their year of sitting as a commission. And that
report would have to take the form that the commission desired it to
take.
But on page eight, there are some guidelines regarding the kind
of reports and recommendations that this commission would make.
First of all, it would make a recommendation to the county
commission, the Naples City Council and other municipalities
regarding what kind of legislation they may recommend that,
perhaps, you might want to send off to the state legislators to aid in
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this effort, and two, it would present an annual report.
The annual report is envisioned as being a report to you at the
end of a year saying just what they observed sitting as a commission.
Did they observe that there were more complaints, say, in the real
estate community, or did they observe that there were more
complaints from the hoteliers, or wherever the complaints may come
from. But they would issue you a report, you would review the
report and determine, based upon that report, what action, if any, you
might wish to take.
In section F it says that it would just encourage the participation
of families to talk about these issues. In G, it would work together
again with other local governments and federal governments,
agencies, to assist Collier County residents with any programs,
projects, facilities and services that may be in line with the goals of
the commission.
On page nine, it goes on to say that they would perform
demographic surveys of the local population, and they would analyze
the data and prepare reports for the county commissioners.
H, they would make such investigations and studies in the field
of human relations as they deem effectuating its purpose. I don't
know what they may decide to look at. They may decide to look at
anything from voting in some areas of the county or dropout rates.
Who knows.9 Whatever they feel they, as the commission, would be
the parties that you appoint, they have the power to determine
whether or not some issues may be more important to them than
others.
And if after looking into it they determine that there is
substantial evidence, then they may file a report to the local --
federal, local, or state agency that would be handling this. And you
can see that they don't try to enforce their own findings because they
have no power to do so as this ordinance is drafted.
And then it goes on to say that they would do other things
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basically to encourage the community in efforts to eliminate
discrimination.
It even goes all the way over to page 10, and it talks about
developing ways of anticipating, preparing for and relieving
community tensions that arise from intergroup conflict, which is
similar to what happened at River Park situation.
It would work in paragraph O, with other human relations
organizations and agencies. And it basically serves as a body to
whom the county would direct problems and issues concerning
human relations. That's what that commission would do.
We have set up the administration in the ordinance in section
eight, and basically the inquiries and complaints would be filtered
through the county manager's office, and that was our instruction,
and that's what's in the ordinance, that when people, parties, make
complaints, the complaints would be processed through the county
manager's office.
Now, before I close -- and I'm about to close -- I think it's
important that -- since we've gotten this far with it, that you should
know what the -- what our office, anyway, envisions in the event that
a human relations commission was approved.
The first thing that would have to happen after -- if this
ordinance were approved and a human relations commission was
established, the next thing that would have to happen would be some
agreement on the part of the commission and staff and other
interested parties on how the commission would proceed.
And what we envisioned -- and we had some discussions with at
least one other constitutional office the other day, was that any
complaint would have to be processed through the county manager's
office, although obviously you couldn't prevent someone from just
walking in and saying something, and that complaint would have to
be a sworn statement. Because there's no desire to entertain any
complaints if the party making the complaint isn't willing to swear
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under oath that the allegations are true.
And that complaint would be filled out on a form that we would
devise in which the person would state their name, their address, the
complaint, the party against whom they're complaining against, what
they're complaining about, and swear that what they said was true.
Our staff would inform the party against whom an allegation
had been made, say, a business or individual -- more than likely a
larger group -- and they would be informed of the statement, and
they would be told when the matter would be presented to the human
relations commission for consideration. We also envision --
therefore, they would be able to respond if they wish to.
So everybody's in the loop and everything is open to the public.
This is not a confidential type of process. We're not the EEOC. We
don't pretend to be. This is supposed to be an open forum, and,
therefore, if you have an allegation that you wish to make, you
should be willing to stand up and raise your right hand and say you
swear that what you're going to testify to is the truth.
And during the commission proceedings, we envisioned that all
witnesses would be sworn and all testimony would be taken under
oath, with all of the concomitant things that result from that, such as
perjury and what have you.
And that -- we realize when we discussed this that all of that
may have a chilling effect against some individuals who may feel
that they really don't want to get up and swear that what they're
saying is true, you know, at this point, because they may lose their
jobs or whatever they feel.
I think our staff's position is that the purpose of the ordinance is
to have a forum not so much for individuals, although obviously
individuals would be able to present their complaints, but essentially
to handle matters that are related to the community learning to
cooperate, communicate, and get along with one another.
It's not a substitute for some other agency, and, therefore, we
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want everybody involved to be fully apprised of what's going on and
everything -- any testimony taken be under oath and the person swear
to tell the truth.
And any procedures -- because obviously if a commission were
approved, the next step would be to have procedures regarding how
that commission would operate approved by the Board of County
Commissioners, and our thought was that we would involve some of
the other constitutional officers in the drafting of those procedures
and present those procedures to the Board of County Commission for
approval before the human relations commission could actually begin
to take complaints.
In the meanwhile, while those procedures were being drafted or
being presented to you, the commissioners could be educated and
informed regarding the nature of the federal and state statutory
provisions that they would be in charge of talking about, and it -- you
know, in my opinion, personally, I think it would take quite a while
to bring them up to speed so that they felt that they understood the
federal laws on these issues and the state laws on those issues.
And probably by the time the educational process had
completed, the procedures would probably -- would probably be
available to present to the board, and then they could go into action.
So we don't see this as an immediate remedy of any sort or
creation of any forum. It would be a fairly -- still a fairly lengthy
process before they would be able to begin to function as a human
relations commission.
Now, all of the -- all of the things that I mentioned to you that
are in the ordinance, most of those come from existing ordinances
throughout the State of Florida. And we attempted to come up with
an ordinance that we felt would meet the particular needs of Collier
County.
So it's really being presented to you in that fashion, and
however you want to change it or whatever, but that's what we did.
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If you have any questions or anything?
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We'll start with Conunissioner
Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Ms. Robinson, during the
visioning process of the human relations commission and their duties,
if the members do hear alleged complaints from the community, what
action would they take?
MS. ROBINSON: They would be -- they could -- they basically
would function as an advisory body and-- to you, and they would
tell you that, you know, this is what we think may have happened in
that particular instance, or if it's not something that rises to that level
where you need to be informed of it, they would simply listen to the
person and then advise the person where they should take that
complaint.
In no way, shape, or form would this commission function as a
substitute for that person's own legal counsel, nor would the -- so
anyone that brings a complaint would have to be informed, of course,
that this is the Collier County procedure, you have deadlines and
whatever you have to meet under these federal procedures, and this is
not going to protect you from that. We're simply going to give you
information that we think you can use to pursue your claim any way
you want to.
But in terms of-- what they -- so they don't have enforcement
powers yet. This ordinance doesn't give them any. This is not a
remedial ordinance. This is an ordinance to set up a place where the
community can come to talk about and discuss issues that relate to
human relations.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Correct. And I was just
speaking about the visioning for future. And you stated that it might
be -- if somebody has a complaint, they would-- the commission
would hear their complaint and might make recommendations to the
Board of Commissions on that particular complaint?
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MS. ROBINSON: It might if it felt that that's -- that is merited.
It may also tell the person before it, for instance, we don't agree with
you. We don't think there's enough evidence to merit the complaint,
or they may say there may be enough evidence to merit the
complaint. And if so, you should take it to the EEOC or you should
take it to other existing facilities.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: So how can they really form a
position if they don't investigate the complaint?
MS. ROBINSON: Right. And that's what we're saying. They
can take -- when we use the term investigate in the ordinance, we
basically mean take inquiry or look into, which means that if a
person comes up, the commission has the authority to ask them
questions or allow them to bring witnesses or whatever, but it doesn't
really give them the power to go out and subpoena records or
anything of that nature. That's not what it's envisioned to do.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right.
MS. ROBINSON: It's basically, I wouldn't say bully pulpit, but
it certainly is a place where the community will have a forum to talk
about issues related to human relations.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. And -- you know,
excuse me for all the questions, but --
MS. ROBINSON: No, that's fine.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- to me, if we have an
individual complaint without giving authority to investigate the
complaint, it's really not serving a purpose. If we're talking about the
community and -- whether it be race, color, creed -- what we can do
to educate the community, that would be -- in my opinion, be
worthwhile.
MS. ROBINSON: And that's all -- that's what's envisioned here.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I know, but you started to get
into the discussion of what it could be, and--
MS. ROBINSON: Oh, no.
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December 17, 2002
COMMISSIONER HENNING: -- what the envision (sic) was,
and --
MS. ROBINSON: Okay. Then let me correct that, make sure
that I'm clear on this issue.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
MS. ROBINSON: This ordinance, which is the only ordinance
that's presented to you thus far--
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Right.
MS. ROBINSON: Right? It's the only one on the table, the
only one that exists, this ordinance merely creates a human relations
commission. It creates -- it does not create any enforcement powers,
it does not create any investigative powers beyond making any
inquiries because there's no subpoena power, and it's envisioned as
an educate -- as an educational tool as a forum where people can
actually come to talk about these issues and to make
recommendations, either to you or to the state legislature, or to
whomever, regarding what the commission feels is important. To
educate the public and to make the materials available to individuals
who may need some help on how to pursue their particular claims.
But it does not create any kind of enforcement powers in this
cormnission.
MR. MANALICH: Commissioner Henning, if I might add --
for the record, Ramiro Manalich, chief assistant county attorney --
we would specifically recommend against any attempt to create
investigative powers under the concern of potential liability to the
county.
What we're talking about here, if the word investigative power
is at all mentioned, as Ms. Robinson indicated, very limited just to
make clear that they can inquire when something is presented to
them as to what circumstances are known or presented, but in no way
should this be viewed as an investigative agency or a body that's
going to adjudicate the merits of particular allegations of
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discrimination or those types of complaints.
It will deal with them, I think, as Ms. Robinson has indicated,
in, are they symptomatic of a community issue that should be
addressed and that transcends, perhaps, even the individual case.
MS. ROBINSON: Correct.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Fine.
Commissioner Coyle, then Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I understand what you're telling us
about investigation. But I feel there are so many references to
investigation in this ordinance that it creates a certain unease. Your
catchall phrase really says that it will not create an independent cause
of action for damages to other judicial relief.
MS. ROBINSON: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: There are a lot of investigative
actions that can be done short of creating action for damages or other
judicial relief. And one of the issues I'd like to raise is on page 10,
paragraph-- subparagraph T.
MS. ROBINSON: Subparagraph T?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Subparagraph T. It says, one of
the responsibilities will be reviewing police investigation and
reporting and prosecutions.
MS. ROBINSON: Right.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Now, I can understand gathering
data on things like that, but reviewing those things, and with a view
toward making a recommendation to the commission, to me, assumes
that the people on the human rights commission are qualified and
have access to all the information to make the right kinds of
decisions. I'm also troubled --
MS. ROBINSON: Do you want me to respond to that one?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Sure, go ahead.
MS. ROBINSON: This particular provision, just like the
ordinance as a whole, is completely subject to preexisting or maybe
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even later superseding state statutes. There are state statutory
provisions that would prevent this commission or any other body to
interfere with or gain confidential information from an ongoing
internal affairs investigation by a police or law enforcement agency
or any other criminal matter, because those are statutorily prevented.
However, when the -- let me give you an -- the only example I
can really give you is the River Park example. If this commission
had been in effect when the River Park incident occurred and there
was an -- there were allegations being made about actions of police
officers and whatever, obviously the police immediately conducted
an investigation and obviously also their investigation would have
been confidential, and the commission would have not been able to
force the police department or the sheriff's department to talk about
anything that was confidential, and they would have the option of
either continuing it until that period passed or, perhaps, the law
enforcement agencies may well have wanted to use the forum as a
place to demonstrate all the different good things that they've been
doing.
And they've been doing a lot of good things. I mean, they have a
lot of community programs that people are not aware of, they have a
lot of interaction between the various sectors of the community, and
this would have been a place where those issues could have been
raised.
So it's possible, if you look at paragraph T, that a person may
have stepped forward and made some kind of allegations, because
those allegations were made over and over again during that
particular incident which prompted the drafting of the ordinance, and
that is what has prompted putting this in there. But obviously it
would be subject to all of the confidentiality provisions that already
exist-- and could not interfere with it either.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We have included here all of the
state and federal laws that would govern how these investigations or
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inquiries would take place, and, perhaps, determined what action or
what violations might have occurred. But there's at least one class of
individuals identified in this ordinance that don't have any federal or
state protection.
MS. ROBINSON: Correct.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Under what criteria -- or what
criteria do we use to investigate or inquire into violations of their
rights?
MS. ROBINSON: Well, they would be -- in effect, what this
ordinance says is, even though -- and you're speaking of sexual
orientation?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes.
MS. ROBINSON: Even though sexual orientation is not
mentioned as a protected category in the existing state and federal
statutes, we would treat you as if you are. So whatever applies to
anybody else would apply to you, essentially, is how that would
work.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And then on page four, top of the
page, second sentence, it says, to aid in the prevention of the effects
of present and past discrimination. What does that mean.'?
MS. ROBINSON: Well, that's just -- people or groups that
would come before the commission will either be complaining about
something going on right now or something that they think will occur
in the future, and they may able to explain the reasons why they
think it may happen in the future because of what has happened in
the past.
And generally, in human relations commissions and bodies of
this nature, the historical basis for someone believing they've been
discriminated against is considered, you know, relevant information.
And that's all that means.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Now, the--
MS. ROBINSON: And also, it means -- I mean, that's basically
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what it means, that a person says, look, for the past -- this has
happened to me in the past and I'm afraid it's going to happen to me
again and it's happening right now. And you say, why do you think
-- I mean, it's just -- it would just be an attempt to be able to take all
of that relevant information before the commission.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Then the commission as it
currently is designed or proposed, would meet once quarterly.
MS. ROBINSON: It would meet once quarterly unless the
board or the commission decides to meet more often.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. I am concerned that a
commission which meets quarterly, once quarterly, will actually slow
down the process of processing complaints about discrimination. I
mean, certainly, no one in this room who feels that they have
suffered from discrimination would like to wait until the next
quarterly meeting of the commission to file the complaint and have
an inquiry started or even to find out where they should go for help.
It seems to me that we need to find a way to make sure we can
deal with those on a current basis. And how do we do that other than
through the county manager's office?
MS. ROBINSON: Well, once again, I think the commission,
that is not its purpose. Its purpose is not to process complaints. Its
purpose is to provide a forum.
My understanding is that there would be some recommendation
to the board to have some staff for the commission, and certainly that
staff would have available whatever brochures or statutory things
that could be handed out. But this -- this commission, it really isn't
set up to be a place where you take your discrimination complaint
expecting the commission to make some finding that would allow
you to take it to the next level.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Can I read to you from page five?
MS. ROBINSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE:
The center of the page, bottom of
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December 17, 2002
the last paragraph. It says, one of the responsibilities is the
investigation of complaints, findings, and the taking of positions on
issues.
MS. ROBINSON: Uh-huh, yes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I don't know how you do that
without accepting a complaint and reviewing it and investigating it.
MS. ROBINSON: Yes, you would. But, I mean-- but I don't
think that should be confused with the commission having an official
role in anybody's litigation or pursuit of their rights.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yep.
MS. ROBINSON: This commission is envisioned under the
ordinance to entertain and provide a forum for the discussion of these
issues, including the filing of complaints. But the commission is not
set up to serve as an agency that would take and process complaints
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
MS. ROBINSON: -- for those purposes.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Tell me how the process works.
Someone is -- believes they're discriminated against, what do they
do? Who do they take this claim to?
MS. ROBINSON: Well, it depends. If they -- you want an
individual?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah.
MS. ROBINSON: An individual under this ordinance would
take their complaint to the county manager's office.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. And then what--
MS. ROBINSON: And then fill out a form, which hasn't been
devised yet, and make a complaint.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And then what would the county
manager's office do with it?
MS. ROBINSON: It would review the complaint. It's
envisioned -- these provisions have not been drafted yet, remember.
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December 17, 2002
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah.
MS. ROBINSON: This is just our initial sense of what the
procedure should take.
The complainant -- the party against whom the complaint has
been made would be informed that the complaint has been made
under oath against them, and the county manager would then present
the complaint to the human relations commission for their review.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: At its next quarterly meeting?
MS. ROBINSON: Whenever that was.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: And then they would review it and
provide some report to the county manager or to the commission
itself?.
MS. ROBINSON: No. The commission would take its actions
at their meetings, or they haven't -- they would have to come up with
a procedure that's approved by you on how they would process these
complaints, because it's not in this ordinance.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. I--
MS. ROBINSON: But assuming that they decided to make a
decision on a complaint, they would simply indicate what that
decision was to the party that were appearing -- or the parties that
were appearing before it.
COMMISSIONERCOYLE: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Fiala?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes. If the commission, say, for
instance, after deliberation didn't agree that this party was being
discriminated against and the party felt that they were, could they
then -- would the commission then be susceptible to lawsuits?
MS. ROBINSON: No. The commission-- you know, anybody
could be susceptible to lawsuits, but whether or not there's a
likelihood of prevailing on the lawsuit is a different matter.
If you -- one of the procedures that would obviously have to be
instituted would be that the complainant would acknowledge that
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they're not creating any kind of right of action based on the decision
from the commission.
They would concede that they're presenting their matter to the
commission in a public forum for public discussion of the issue, not
to file a complaint the way you would file a complaint with the
EEOC before you're able to go to court, but simply believe somehow
that their particular complaint deserves a public hearing in front of a
human relations commission to talk about, not to seek any particular
form of relief.
And so the complaint petition that we would envision would
obviously have those provisions in it that, whether they agree or not
with the ruling by the commission, this doesn't establish any kind of
right of action against the commission for the actions that they take.
MR. MANALICH: It's also my understanding, Commissioner,
that the manager's office would be equipped with standard
information and forms from the existing agencies, and these persons
would be informed that this is essentially a public discussion forum,
that if they wish to pursue individual legal remedies, they may wish
to get their owner legal counsel -- MS. ROBINSON: Right.
MR. MANALICH: -- and/or go directly themselves to these
agencies immediately so that any time frames are not impacted.
MS. ROBINSON: Correct. It's really not written to create a
remedy for people. And they need to acknowledge that up front and
not have expectations that extend beyond what the ordinance really
provides for, and we would certainly ask for a waiver from them to
protect the county and the commission.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. Let's go to Commissioner
Henning, then we'll go to the speakers.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Example -- let me give you an
example, Commissioner Coyle, being a senior citizen, is a minority.
If he wants to go into a sports bar where a lot of young people are,
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and the bartender doesn't want to serve him, so the state has a
commission, a human relations commission, for such actions, do you
know how they would investigate or what their process is?
MS. ROBINSON: Well, I know that they have agreed in the
event -- at least one of their members, I'll put it that way, not the state
human relations commission, but I've certainly met with one of their
local members, who indicated that his understanding was that the
state human relations commission would cooperate with our local
commission if it were established in any way that they could, and I
would assume that that meant that if there were things that our local
commission felt that they were unequipped to handle, they could
forward it to the state human relations commission for further
investigation or whatever. But -- and I think that was a very good
suggestion.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Do you know how they're set
up? Do they -- I mean, they can investigate, they can prosecute.
MS. ROBINSON: Right. I don't know about prosecute, but I
know that they have investigative powers is what I understood. But
I'm not familiar enough with their procedures to tell you what they
can and cannot do.
But I have just been informed that there is a person here today
from the state human relations commission. And if he -- I think he's
here. Mr. Valle.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Right there.
MS. ROBINSON: Oh, good, okay. And he could answer those
questions for you.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Oh, is it appropriate now,
Commissioner?
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I think now is as appropriate as
anything.
Would you please state your credentials, sir, and your name for
the record.
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December 17, 2002
MR. VALLE: My name is Mario Valle, and I'm a
commissioner with the Florida Commission for Human Relations.
The Florida Commission for Human Relations, Commissioner,
has been established for approximately 30 years, and it's had
enforcement subpoena power and penalty enforcement power for
over 25 of those years.
The current system in Tallahassee in the way its conducted, the
department has an intake department where they take in all of the
relevant background information about a particular matter. They pass
that along to an investigative team.
And right now in Tallahassee we have 34 investigators
dedicated to investigating not only complaints in employment, which
is the bulk or the majority of the complaints, but in housing, in public
accommodation, which includes or encompasses all of the hotels,
bars, any types of those facilities, and they provide remedy and relief
for those aspects.
In the course of the last three years there's been a change in
leadership up in Tallahassee. The governor has now been the person
to have appointed all 12 commission members that sit on the Florida
Commission on Human Relations.
Also, they have hired and established a new executive director.
And what that director has done in the last year is reduced the
backlog of cases that have been pending by over 47 percent and has
increased the amount of awards given to complainants by over
$900,000.
So right now in 19 -- in 2001 to 2002 fiscal year, they reduced
the backlog of working inventory cases from over 3,000 to just over
1,600 and have increased the settlement dollars of their closed cases
from 2.1 to $3.2 million.
Other aspects is that they are a totally autonomous and separate
entity. They do not have a secretary that they report to, they do not
work under DMS, even though that's where they're placed because of
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December 17, 2002
website issues and the like. But they operate completely whole and
separate.
As you can imagine, there are a number of complaints that occur
at the state level with regards to agencies and employment that are of
the state. And because of their autonomy, they're able to maintain
separate conflicts -- or maintain a separation so that no conflicts of
interest occur between the matters, which is where I drew a concern
with regards to the types of investigative powers if somebody had a
complaint against the county or what have you because of the
resources being utilized.
The other aspect -- and Commissioner Coyle, you pointed out
something as far as how someone could get a complaint up to the
appropriate agencies effectively. You could go to myflorida.com,
look in the search engine and type human relations commission.
There it will direct you to a link which has all the information of the
Florida Commission on Human Relations. It has some forms that
you can download and send those up to Tallahassee so that no time is
spared in the investigative functions.
Over the course of the last year also the courts have upheld that
when a complaint has been filed with the Florida Commission on
Human Relations, it is duly filed with the EEOC and HUD because
we have contracts with those agencies as well. They provide about
20 percent of our budget over the course of the year's time.
So we stand ready, willing and able to help out Collier County
in its overall goals.
In -- the 2001 incident that occurred here in Naples was actually
cited in our orientation materials as a commissioner of the job that
was done here in Collier County. Also, basically the Florida
Commission on Human Relations has a statutory mandate to secure
the state against domestics dry fund arrest (sic), preserve the public
safety and general welfare, the potential for civil unrest, and this
situation appears greatly enhanced for the reasons that they noted
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within the aspects, so they sent two persons down from Tallahassee
to help diffuse the situation and stand ready, willing and able to come
forward and help out in any type of public forums, summits, to try to
get those groups of folks that have traditionally had opposing views
together so that they can help create coalitions, derive personal
relationships so that in the event that any instances occur in the
future, that they are able to bridge those gaps and to have those
aspects held together.
I think that we haven't probably done that because of a lack of a
presence in Southwest Florida from someone in the commission as
far as getting the word out as to where to go. I think that having a
link from an intergovernmental agency on our Collier County
website to the Florida Commission on Human Relations website
would be a fantastic step that would not cost a whole lot of money,
other than just to produce a link.
I'm in the process of developing a website locally where I could
be contacted. I'm getting the other materials ready. The website
should be up and running the middle of January. So I expect to be an
active participant and active member of the Commission for Florida
Human Relations in the State of Florida.
Just as a side note, currently in the 1,600 cases that are in
Tallahassee, six of those pertain to Collier County, which is why one
of those things are probably needing to get more access and more
exposure.
They also have had instances on occasions where the high
number of cases, they've gone to the individual counties and sought
resolution or mediation at the county level so that the folks didn't
have to travel to Tallahassee.
We've conducted many instances where reviews or other aspects
have been taking place on teleconference so the people or the persons
don't have to travel to Tallahassee and incur that expense. But they
do have enforcement power and they do have the training there,
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December 17, 2002
because there are five attorneys that are totally autonomous, 34
investigative staff, an intake staff, .and a closing or docket staff so
that they can pursue and completely clear out those -- those cases.
We, speaking on behalf of the commission, want you to move
forward with the type of human relations ordinance that you feel is
comfortable and necessary for the residents and the citizens of
Collier County, also to be able to stand ready, willing and able to
help partner those aspects.
I also feel that it wouldn't be out of line for me to ask you to
main -- to allow us to maintain our investigative and judicial process,
because after 25 years of doing this, you get to know the procedures
and the policies quite well, and there are some very definite
guidelines as we get better -- as I get better trained in it that I'm
recognizing in terms of where the limitations are within those
aspects, and it will take someone a long time to get that up to speed.
We also meet quarterly, but we have a three-member panel of
the commission that reviews the recommendations from our staff and
from the process. We have a quasijudicial hearing. Those are held
throughout the entire year.
So, Commissioner Coyle, a person comes, gets a complaint, the
intake staff takes all of their information, they pass it along to the
investigative team, they review all the material, get the subpoenas or
whatever other aspects, because the department has subpoena power,
pass it along to the attorneys, they draft a -- a memorandum of law,
pass that along, we hold a hearing. The complainant and the
petitioner -- the petitioner and the respondent are there. They
provide for that. The commission -- the three-member panel of the
commission then reviews their testimony and we forward that along
then with a recommendation, and that can either be upheld by an
administrative law judge or can be rescinded or reviewed.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Very impressive. Can you stay there
for just a minute, Mario. I think there may be some questions
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December 17, 2002
coming your way.
MR. VALLE: Sure.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We'll start with Commissioner
Halas, then go to Commissioner Coyle.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: This question -- this question is
directed to Ms. Jackie Robinson.
Jackie, in the course of somebody placing a complaint and like
-- as you said, that they were under oath, what happens if this is
found out to be a complaint that was filed incorrectly? What course
of action does the person who had this filed against them -- what
recourse of action would this person have?
MS. ROBINSON: Bear in mind that there are no procedures in
place. Those procedures would have to be drafted and presented to
you as the member of the Board of County Commissioners for
approval.
The purpose of Mr. Valle's presentation, in addition to the
presentation we've already made, is that obviously there could be
cooperative efforts with the state agency with our local agency.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Thank you.
MS. ROBINSON: And they could help draft the procedures.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: It's my mm.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Go ahead, Commissioner Coyle.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Forgive me for belaboring this
issue, but by nature, I am reluctant to get involved in something
unless I know how it works, and so I need to understand the process.
I'm still concerned about slowing down the complaint process, and I
want to avoid that. So if we have someone who has a human relations
complaint, the most efficient thing for them to do is to take it to you
right here in Collier County?
MR. VALLE: They take it to me, and I make sure it gets up to
Tallahassee.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah. That's the most -- that's the
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December 17, 2002
most efficient thing to do.
MR. VALLE: Actually, the most efficient thing to do would be
to -- I'm sorry. The most efficient thing to do would be to download
the appropriate forms off the Internet, complete those, and send those
to -- to the office in Tallahassee, that way your complaint is placed
under a priority status, and the intake team can start working on that
case diligently right away.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: So as I see it then, encouraging
people to send their complaints or to make a complaint through the
human relations commission that we are considering here seems to
me to be slowing the process down.
Now, I can see a very valuable service for the human relations
commission, but I -- I'm at least at this point a little reluctant to see
them get involved in the process of receiving a complaint, making
inquiries or having the county manager do it.
I think we could serve a very valuable, that is the county
government, could serve a very valuable function by setting up the
website links and making sure people know where to go.
My only hangup at this point in time is, I'm concerned about the
language in this ordinance which deals with receiving a complaint,
reviewing a complaint or forming an opinion on a complaint, doing
an inquiry and/or investigation, however you wish to term it. That
bothers me.
I understand why you want to do that on an after-the-fact basis.
Let's get the complaint in to you, let's get it working, let's get
somebody investigating it and trying to deal with it, and then provide
the circumstances to the Collier County commission, human relations
commission, and then they can look at it and advise us how we're
suppose to solve that problem -- keep it from occurring again in the
future.
MR. VALLE: Correct.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: But I have a real hard time seeing
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how it's going to work if we want to insert the Collier County human
relations commission into the process you already have working.
Does that make --
MR. VALLE: I tend to view it in a similar light, Commissioner
Coyle.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay.
MR. VALLE: There is that aspect, there is the aspect that
concerns me, because I'm a resident of Collier County, that we have
an entity that is going to do an investigation that may involve
someone in county government. If you-- if you wanted to come
back at it and say that -- I know there's been some belaboring points
with regards to the utilities manager that was in the paper, that is not
a forum to hold it. I don't believe that that's a forum with which to do
an investigation because it can put the county in a situation where the
appearance of a conflict of interest may come into play, and I think
we've gone through enough of that in Collier County that we should
try to avoid that as much as possible.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I understand, and I don't to
want to duplicated government, but in -- you know, we have six
cases that you cited. Is that in the past few years or the history of--
MR. VALLE: In the past few years. You would say -- I would
venture to say that we're trying to clean up what the previous
executive director has done. And so if you have a backlog of those
six cases over a two-year period of time, that would be relevant.
Now, with regards to the availability of a forum for which to
participate, maybe we're holding that number down. But if we make
that accessible to folks on our website, then we're doing both of
ourselves a great service.
Where the human relations commission from Tallahassee or the
state human relations commission views the importance of localized
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December 17, 2002
human relations commissions are to develop the interpersonal
relationships from typically or traditionally opposing viewpoints or
groups so that as to prevent any future civil unrest or
misunderstandings that might occur in the future.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And I see that, you know,
we've had a pretty good record here in Collier County. I think it
would be important to keep that record. And I think there's
opportunities here in Collier County to educate the public through
awareness about discriminations against our citizens and our visitors
of Collier County.
MR. VALLE: Yes, sir. From 1999 to 2000, the state agency
had 197 -- 185 community outreach training and contacts. In 2001 to
2002 we had 527, so we're trying to diligently work on improving
that outreach and that source of information and guidance for the
local, state -- the local agencies at the local level.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Mr. Valle -- I'm sorry, go ahead,
Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Commissioner Coletta, we
have a number of speakers, and I think it's important for us to get to
them. We have a number of residents of Collier County here to
speak, and I understand that we have a lot of visitors, since we are a
destination community. And I think it is important to hear from both
of them, but I would like to distinct (sic) some of those visitors who
probably have cases in their community and how their elected
officials deal with issues like this.
So if we can state for the record, besides the name and address,
but what community you're from, and maybe we can get some of that
input for us to make an informed decision.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: That's very well put.
Meanwhile, Mr. Valle, will you be available if we have further
questions for you?
MR. VALLE: Sure.
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December 17, 2002
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: If not here, can we reach you
possibly by phone?
MR. VALLE: Absolutely, Commissioner.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We do appreciate you volunteering
your services with the state and also appearing before us today.
MR. VALLE: Thank you, Commissioner.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Are you the only one in Collier
County?
MR. VALLE: In Southwest Florida, yes, ma'am. So it would
be like from Charlotte, Lee, Collier County. But we represent all the
citizens of the State of Florida.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you very much, Mr. Valle.
MR. VALLE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We're going to go on to the speakers
now. Before we do, I'm going to go over a couple of notes as far as
what the rules are and how we can make this flow.
Overflow -- if we have an overflow crowd here and we need
more space, there is space in the hall and also at the Elections Office
for anyone that desires a seat.
This meeting is presently scheduled to end at six p.m. this
evening and reconvene at nine a.m. Wednesday morning. We may
very well be able to hear from everyone today that wishes to speak
before six o'clock. If we are close to concluding this proceedings at
six, we may keep the proceedings going forward rather than
continuing it for tomorrow. We'll address that when we get closer to
it. But in any case, if we get too late into the evening, I can assure
you, we're less effective and I'm sure your presentations won't have
as -- won't be as sharp as they would be earlier in the day.
We have how many speakers signed up to speak?
MS. FILSON: Eighty-five.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We have 85 speakers, and that's
absolutely wonderful, because we do want to hear everybody's
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opinion, we want to -- your experiences, your beliefs, we want you to
express it; however, I'm going to request of you -- and it's very
important that we show respect for each other.
If you like what you hear, you may give a polite applause. I
don't want to hear any booing, any hissing, any negativity at all.
We're here to show respect to each other, and I expect everybody to
hold to that, and I will remind you if we get out of line in that
particular instance.
If you believe that the previous speaker, one of the previous
speakers, has stated the -- your case well enough that you don't want
to appear before this commission, you have the option to do what we
call waive, and you do it like this (indicating).
Also at that point in time, you can express your opinion from
the audience if you're in favor or if you're opposed -- opposed to this
particular ordinance. We'll allow you to do that.
But in the meantime, everyone is welcome to speak, and we do
welcome you to join in at any time -- well, when you're scheduled to
speak.
And with that, you want to --
MS. FILSON: How many minutes?
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Three minutes, there is three minutes
allowed.
And with that we're going to call the first speaker, and there'll be
a backup speaker. I'm going to ask the backup speaker to be standing
fairly close to this wall over here and ready to go when the first
speaker finishes, then we'll have a regular rotation going. Please call the first two speakers.
MS. FILSON: The first speaker is Chuck Mohlke. He will be
followed by Ann Jacobson.
MR. MOHLKE: My name is Chuck Mohlke. I'm a resident of
Collier County. Today is my 31 st anniversary of coming to Collier
County as a full-time resident.
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Commissioners, I want to begin by associating myself in their
entirety, in their entirety, with the comments of Jacqueline Hubbard
Robinson.
Her very complete description of the ordinance, her very
forthcoming responses to the questions and comments of
commissioners, I think, were timely, accurate and deserve support
from those of us who support without qualification, without
qualification, the ordinance as it has been presented to you today.
I have some additional remarks because I'm due at my
obligation at two o'clock to be at meeting at the Collier County
Public School administration office on school facility planning.
So I took the liberty of sending my remarks to you by email,
and I will leave these remarks with the county attorney for you to
peruse at your convenience.
But I want to state as strongly as I possibly can one of those
remarks for your consideration now, and that is that diversity ought
to be the dividing principle in respect to employment, education,
medical care, commercial transactions and all access to public places
and public services to ensure that no individual is discriminated
against because of-- upon race, color age, gender, national origin,
religion, marital status, sexual orientation or disability.
Having some modest role in the early stages in regard to this
matter, I think it is instructive to look at the listing of the items which
I just repeated to you, beginning with race and concluding with
disability. That list was more modest at the beginning, and the
additions of some of these categories came as a consequence of
spoken remarks in meetings authorized by this board and conducted
by the county attorney's office and Mr. Och's office that ensures me
that you have seen incorporated in the ordinance as explained to you
by Attorney Robinson the important comments made in those
meetings and the desires of those who spoke.
I thank you very much for the opportunity to make these
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comments and wish you well in the deliberation of this important
ordinance.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you, sir.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Ann Jacobson, and she will
be followed by Robert Canyon.
MS. JACOBSON: I'm Ann Jacobson. I'm a resident of Collier
County for the last 11 years. I want to compliment the commission,
commissioners, for bringing forth this ordinance to us.
I'm the chair of the community relations committee of the
Jewish Federation of Collier County. In regard to the Collier County
human relations ordinance, we strongly support the creation of this
human relations commission, which we feel will provide a legitimate
forum for complaints, for education, and for issues relating to
discrimination.
We are a community that celebrates diversity and disdains
intolerance and inequity. This is what America is, a country that
dares to end discrimination in all its disguises and strives to embrace
and establish justice for all.
Constitutional principles such as free speech, freedom of
religion, safety in the home and the workplace, and the inalienable
right to grow to our fullest potential while we are blessed with life is
essential in our county, in our country, and in the whole wide world.
We must adopt the ordinance to create a human relations
commission that honors the law that asks us to do so, namely to
safeguard people's rights and work towards ending all discrimination
on the basis of age, disabilities, gender, marital stares, national
origin, race, religion, and sexual orientation. To do it any less will
cast Naples and Collier County in a light not becoming to this
cultural, humanitarian and cosmopolitan nature of our fair
community.
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We are and must remain a beacon of tolerance and humanitarian
justice for all, for all of our inhabitants. For this reflects America,
our beloved country at its very core.
Last week I attended the character council meeting -- and I think
you were present at that -- to establish Collier County as a
community of character. What does that really mean? Character is
the inward motivation to do what is right. Whatever the costs, Collier
County can show its character first and foremost by doing the right
thing by creating a human relations commission. Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Robert Canyon, and he will
be followed by the Reverend Kathleen Korb.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Once again, whenever you come up
to the mike to speak, even though you've been introduced, state for
the record your name.
MR. CANYON: My name is Robert Canyon, and I have been a
resident since 1976. And I was bom blight and male, and I have a lot
of experiences in my lifetime with discrimination.
Today I wonder, would it have made any difference if I had
been gay black or gay white. If sexual -- if sexual orientation is not
included in the ordinance, I, a black man who has been discriminated
against in Collier County three times, in Collier County government
three times, and four times in the office of the sheriff's department --
we need to make sure that this doesn't happen to others in our
society.
Because of who I am, I foresee a very dark future for gay and
lesbian minorities. We must protect them.
So you understand I'm speaking today because I believe the
word sexual orientation in the human rights ordinance is for
betterment of our residents of Collier County.
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I am trying to understand how we can have a human relations
commission which excludes certain people. Every minority needs to
be accounted for in this ordinance.
I have been a Republican for over 30 years. I have been actively
trying to recruit blacks to the Republican party. This has been an
impossible task because of the party's poor image with minorities.
Two years ago when I tried to qualify as a candidate for the
office of Collier County sheriff by getting a petition signed, I could
not get enough signatures from the black and Hispanic communities,
not even the members of the NAACP would even sign the petition.
Why? Because I was a Republican and what the Republicans stand
for.
The question asked of me on many occasions, why are you a
Republican? Republicans are racists, bigoted, homophobic and don't
care about people.
We have a Republican county commissioner (sic) here. We
have a great opportunity to show the people here in Collier County
that we care about people.
I am concerned when we have Republicans like Trent Lott and
Mike Carr, our own Republican leader, in Collier County speaking
out against human rights. Our image is a mess. We need to change
it. It's time for our Republican Board of County Commissioners to
take a strong moral stand on equality and justice for all.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you, Mr. Canyon.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Reverend Kathleen Korb,
and she will be followed by Wendy Gregory.
MS. KORB: I'm Kathleen Korb. I've been a resident only a
short time when I was called to be minister of the Unitarian
Universalist Congregation of Greater Naples, which has voted to
welcome and include all the protected classes in this proposed
ordinance.
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December 17, 2002
It is in a way too bad that so much extraneous debate has had to
obscure a discussion of the importance of the ordinance itself and its
details of the need for a local body to whom those who feel that they
have been discriminated against can go for recourse, but I don't think
that really is in debate. In debate is what classes should be protected.
Some people have said that such classes should not even be
listed, that discrimination is simply wrong. Well, some
discrimination is necessary. In employment, for example, we need to
discriminate on the basis of talent, experience and training. In
housing, we might need to discriminate on the basis of rent-paying
history. It's therefore clearly necessary to list on what basis it is not
all right to discriminate.
The one that people are not agreed upon is sexual orientation.
Most people believe that homosexuals are already protected by state
and national anti-discrimination laws. In this room we think they are
not.
To remove them then from the list of protected classes in this
ordinance is to proclaim to the world that Collier County believes
that it's all right to discriminate against these people on no basis
except their sexual orientation. And I can't believe that you want to
do that.
I've been listening carefully to the arguments for removing
sexual orientation as a protected class from the ordinance, and the
only one that I've heard that is not clearly based on ignorance or
simple premise is the religious argument.
This position is that of a particular interpretation of a particular
religion, one that is not even shared by most of its adherents. For this
commission to be persuaded by such an argument is to establish that
particular interpretation of religion as the decision-making body for
this county, at least in such a case as this.
And that is in opposition to the constitutions of the State of
Florida and the United States. So I urge you to retain the list of
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protected classes as they are presently proposed. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Wendy Gregory, and she
will be followed by Ellie Cantor.
MS. GREGORY: I am the mother of a gay, talented, wonderful
man. My significant other just left. He's a black man, and we are
raising-- interracial child.
I support the ordinance as it stands without any changes. And
I'd like to read something to you, a poem by Anato Broud (phonetic).
We are here to create and not destroy. We are here to love and not
to hate. We are here to bind and not divide. For in one world we can
reach the stars. In one world we can span the universe and search for
the clue of the beating of the heart, for the source of the warming
sun. We can build a world of the free. We are restoring the
birthright of every human everywhere, if we stay united, if we stay
strong, if we listen, think, and then do, if we accept the burden of
freedom and never fail to defend it.
For the power of the universe is in our grasp to use for the good
of all humankind. May it be with us in peace, may it be with us in
wisdom, may it be with us for all time.
Are those opposed to including sexual orientation in the
proposed ordinance saying that gays and lesbians should not have the
same rights enjoyed by the rest of society? Gays and lesbians are
discriminated against. Ask them. They are the victims of hate
crimes.
Remember what happened in Texas and what happened in
Wisconsin. We should all grieve the indignities they suffer and we
should do all we can to change the situation.
Gays and lesbians are our daughters, our sons, our brothers, our
sisters, they are our friends, they are doctors, they are lawyers, they
are teachers, they are -- serve our country in the military. They are
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public officials. They are human like us and make valuable
contributions to our society.
Not to choose sexual orientation in the proposed ordinance can
only encourage hatred and disrespect for dignity and worth of
individuals. This can only result in the same mentality that so-called
undesirables, many of whom were homosexuals, were brought to
their death in concentration camps during World War II. And the
same mentality which incites terrorists to violence against their
fellow men.
How can we even sit here debating this issue after 9/11 when a
group of bigots killed and maimed innocent people because we're
different?
Our Founding Fathers were wise when they chose to separate
church and state so that no religion or creed can dictate our resent
decisions. I believe in the last two lines from America the Beautiful,
and crown thy good with brotherhood, from sea to shining sea. And
remember that this is a country which prides itself on promoting
justice and human rights around the world, and we should be ever
vigilant to do the same in this country.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Before we go to the next speaker, as
part of our agreement with the court reporter here, we're going to
take a break, short break of 10 minutes like every hour and a half.
We will reconvene here at a quarter of, and I expect everybody be
back on time.
(A recess was taken.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Please take your seats, ladies and
gentlemen, and we'll proceed where we left off. Seats, please.
Ladies and gentlemen, will you take your seats, please.
MR. MUDD: Ladies and gentlemen, if I could please get you to
take your seats.
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CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. Please proceed, Ms. Filson.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Ellie Cantor. She will be
followed by Sandra Brown.
MS. CANTOR: Yes. My name is Ellie Cantor. And while I
serve as the democratic state committee woman of Collier County,
I'm here because I serve on the Democratic Executive Committee,
Affirmative Action Committee. It is chaired by Elma Cambridge,
who regrets that because of personal reasons, she is not able to be
here today.
I also have been appointed to the Florida State Democratic
Executive Affirmative Action Committee. I do believe that the
Democratic Executive Committee, or DEC as we refer to it in Collier
County, was one of the first to review and return the draft of the
proposed ordinance.
I personally have seen many changes in the 14 years that I've
been in Collier County, and hopefully and ideally we'll continue to
meet the needs and recognize the need for change, which includes the
growing diversity in our county.
The human relations commission says they will protect the
interests, the rights, the privileges of all Collier County citizens. If
we eliminate any group that is in this proposal, I think we are
defeating the purpose of the human rights commission in total.
It may not be entirely the answer, but it certainly is a start. The
list I refer to, of course, is the first paragraph in the ordinance, and it
says it is based on race, color, sex, age, national origin, religion,
marital status, sexual orientation or disability.
I realize, and it's been made certainly clear to us today, if there
was any misconception, that the human relations commission is not
an enforcement agency, but it is a forum.
If we were to eliminate the basis of the list, then I really don't
know what the purpose is of this human relations commission.
The affirmative action committee again of the DEC supports
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strongly this language, this list, the language that says it will consider
problems that threaten equal rights and opportunities, and I presume
that that means for everyone.
Everyone in Collier County has a right to come before the
human relations commission, and so it should be. I see us as no
different than anyplace else in the country. We are a melting pot.
We're not unique in Collier County, and we need to do here what
we're trying to do all over the country, and I hope that the
commission becomes a reality and that this language remains in it.
Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Sandra Brown. She will be
followed by Howard Simon.
MS. BROWN: Good afternoon. I'm Sandra Brown,
vice-president of the almost 300-member Greater Naples American
Association of University Women.
For 120 years, AAUW has supported equity for women and
girls and the civil rights of all individuals. We oppose discrimination
of any kind and support the creation of the human rights -- human
relations commission to review complaints of discrimination which
will benefit Collier County by addressing conflicts and easing
tensions. Currently there is no -- no place or body locally to do that.
Passage would identify Collier County as a community which
values equal treatment. Passage would permit persons who believe
they have suffered discrimination to file a complaint, not a lawsuit.
Passage would extend a basic equal right that everyone deserves.
Passage would join us with other progressive Florida communities
that have recently decided discrimination based on sexual orientation
should be as illegal as discrimination based on the other reasons, on
any other reason.
Historically we know from bitter experience that many have
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been mistreated. But today, you have the opportunity to provide
dignity to all citizens of Collier County by passing this ordinance.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Howard Simon, and he will
be followed by Flo Beckler.
MR. SIMON: Good afternoon. I am not a resident of Collier
County. I'm a resident of Miami-Dade County. I am the director of
the American Civil Liberties Union, the ACLU of Florida. I drove
over from Miami to speak with you with this, and I hope you'll bear
with me if I just go 30 seconds over, but I'll try not to.
I want to applaud and support your efforts to address problems
of discrimination in this county by creating a body that would hear
complaints, investigate complaints, resolve disputes, through public
education outreach, maybe even prevent other incidents of
discrimination.
The purpose of this ordinance, by the way, is completely, I
think, different than the outline given to you by the state person. It's
not an individual complaint as a prelude to litigation. I think it's to air
some public discussion about policies that are generally
discriminatory and hopefully to peacefully resolve those things. So it
has a different purpose than the state civil rights commission.
My understanding is that there is no such entity here in Collier
County, and I want to urge you to bear in mind that I think most
every county and every community in this country has some form of
commission or entity or body whereby an aggrieved party can file a
complaint and air a grievance and have that grievance investigated.
I want to urge you to, when you consider the usefulness of this
-- and I do think it will benefit this community -- to bear in mind
what message you're going to be sending to the community and to all
the visitors that come to this community. And I hope that message
will be the simple one, that discrimination is wrong, that all forms of
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discrimination are wrong, and discrimination against all people is
wrong.
Now, you're going to hear from lots of speakers that are going to
try get this all caught up into grand big, ideological warfare, but I
want to urge you to keep your eye on the ball of the very narrow
focus on this ordinance as outlined by your city attorney, that it is --
has a very narrow focus to create a commission.
There are no rights created in this ordinance whatsoever. There
are no causes of action. I must say to you, honestly, I'm disappointed
by that. I wish it did go further. Most counties and most cities, a lot
of them in this state, from Miami-Dade to Monroe to Alachua to St.
Petersburg -- Sarasota, as you may know, passed by referendum
3-to-1, in a referendum just a few weeks ago. The voters adopted
ordinances that, in fact, affirmatively stated that people shall have
rights. This ordinance does none of that. And please don't be
seduced into thinking that you're creating special rights or declaring
that there are -- that there are civil rights.
If you don't mind, I'll go 30 seconds over on this.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I'm going to ask you to keep it
within a minute, sir. Please wrap up.
MR. SIMON: I will keep it within a minute.
In any event, I want you -- please bear in mind, that there are no
special rights created, there are no causes of action. This is a
commission to air grievances publicly.
I want to also urge you not to think of this as a gay rights
ordinance. In fact, gay businesses that would discriminate against
people who are not gay would be guilty of sexual orientation
discrimination. People who are not gay who are perceived to be gay
incorrectly would be victims of sexual orientation discrimination.
So I want to just concluded by urging you to think about
carefully what message you're sending not only to the community but
to the thousands of people that come and visit and vacation in this
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lovely community, as I have done on many occasions.
And I want to urge you to think carefully about not saying to
this community that some forms of discrimination are okay and some
forms of discrimination are not okay. All discrimination against all
people is wrong. And it's wrong regardless of what the law is.
Discrimination based on race was wrong before Congress
enacted the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Discrimination based upon a
disability was wrong before the first President Bush assigned the
Americans with Disabilities Act. Discrimination is wrong whether or
not the law has caught up with us on that, and please make that
general statement. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Flo Beckler. She will be
followed by Dr. Dana Finnegan.
MS. BECKLER: My name is Flo Beckler. I'm a resident of
Collier -- full-time resident of Collier County with my husband of 52
years.
First I want to thank you for your genuine concern in seeing the
need for a human relations commission.
I strongly support your interest in providing some local recourse
to victims of discrimination. I believe it's important to -- for Collier
County to protect all groups with the history of exclusion, including
sexual orientation. Doing so sends a message that Collier County
supports tolerance and diversity.
Our daughter, who lives in Australia, is a successful
entrepreneur. She's very generous and kind and a very spiritual
person. She's also gay.
While she will be unaffected by your decision today, we join in
support of gay men and women living here, and everywhere,
productive citizens here who every day are making a difference in
our community. Our gay friends in Naples include a hospital
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administrator, a financial advisor, a corporate trainer, a successful
realtor and a bank president.
In the last two years, however, several of our gay friends have
chosen to leave Naples because of its level of intolerance. Their
departures constitute a loss not only to the friends but to the
community at large.
Twelve Florida cities have already banned discrimination on
sexual orientation, as you know. The time is right to implement the
commission in Collier County including sexual orientation. I urge
you to demonstrate your leadership and let's move on. It's the right
thing to do.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Dr. Dana Finnegan, and she
will be followed by Don Diogenes.
DR. FINNEGAN: I'm Dana Finnegan. I'm a resident of Naples.
And I want to thank the commission, first of all, for considering this
and framing this ordinance in order to address the crucial issue of
discrimination in Collier County. I applaud your courage and your
foresight.
I wish to speak today both as a resident of Collier County and as
a gay woman. For much of my life I have been subjected to
discrimination in many and different forms, silent, verbal and
sometimes indirect action.
As a psychotherapist working at a counseling center, I have the
painful experience of being fired because I am a lesbian. How I do
know that? Because I asked my boss if that was the reason, and he
said, yes. At the time I had no recourse. I had no voice. I had
nowhere to go with any complaint or any way to make my voice
heard. That happened about 25 years ago, but it happens in the
present all the time, here and now.
This ordinance will provide a voice. It will provide recourse to
those who are discriminated against here in Collier County. This is
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not just gay people, by the way. I -- obviously there are all these
different groups that need protection too. But I urge you to keep
sexual orientation in the group of protected categories. That will
send the message that discrimination is wrong and that there is hope
for redress. There is a place to give a voice. Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker, Don Diogenes, I believe he
waived. The next speaker, Claire Desilver. She will be followed by
James Edwards. She waives. James Edwards, he waives. Daniel
S-C-H-A-L-L-M-O, Schallmo. He will be followed by Ken Melby.
MR. SCHALLMO: For the record, Daniel Schallmo, associate
pastor, First Baptist Church of Naples.
I have a letter that I'd like to read from our pastor, senior pastor,
Dr. Wicker, who is not able to be here today, and he regrets, for
personal reasons, he's not able to be present.
This is addressed to Honorable Commissioner Jim Coletta and
the commissioners, and this is regarding this petition that I have
supplied copies of previously.
Dear Commissioners, in addition to our previous
correspondence dated December 10th, from Dr. Hayes Wicker,
enclosed are an additional 125 signatures. This brings our signature
total to 1,016, including the 891 we submitted last week.
These signatures represent individuals who oppose inclusion of
sexual orientation as a category of the protected class and the
formation of this human relations commission.
We believe that the rights of all are protected under current law.
First Baptist Church, Naples, takes a strong Biblical stand for
equality and affirms the Biblical standards of right and wrong
associated with sexual orientation.
In the interest of time and with your permission, I'd like to ask
members of our church and attendees of our church if they could
stand-- and to affirm this petition.
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Commission?
(Applause.)
MR. SCHALLMO: Again, we prayerfully urge you to consider
the opinion of those names whom we are submitting. The
cross-section of the community is already represented, and we are
opposed to the establishment of this commission as it is currently
written.
Thank you in advance for voting no for this human relations
commission, thank you. (Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Ken Melby, and he will be
followed by Jack Abney.
MR. MELBY: My name is Ken Melby. My wife's parents
retired in Naples in 1972. She's been coming back and forth for 30
years, and we live here now full time as residents for almost eight
years.
I'm opposed to the term sexual orientation being included in the
purpose, intent and definition of this human relations commission
ordinance. I care for the homosexual but I do not approve of their
lifestyle. I have friends and distant family members who are
homosexual and some who have been wonderfully delivered from
their homosexual lifestyle and are now in the ministry giving their
lives to offering hope to the homosexual community.
I believe to have the term sexual orientation included in this
ordinance as quote, members of a protected class, is a distortion of
the tree purpose and spirit of this ordinance.
According to legitimate surveys, the homosexual community
represents approximately one percent of our population. We are one
nation under God, and our constitution guarantees and protects our
freedom of religion.
God has approved of and instituted the sanctity of holy
matrimony between a man and a women. We have no control over
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race, color, sex, age, and national origin, and, therefore, all of these
should not be discriminated against and should be protected classes.
The homosexual community does have an agenda to desensitize
our government officials and our community to accept their lifestyle
as normal. The homosexual activists have been successful in other
communities by promoting the concept that one would be expressing
bigotry or hate by opposing their lifestyle. This is wrong. We need
to take a stand and not compromise or give in to these pressures from
a few.
Please delete the term sexual orientation from the ordinance.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Jack Abney, and he will be
followed by Gerald Noonan.
MR. ABNEY: I'm Jack Abney. I'm a businessman in Collier
County, lived here 15 years.
And listening to Mr. Salley (sic), it seemed like the only new
thing this ordinance would do would be to establish sexual
orientation as a protected class. I'm opposed to that, and there are
reasons why.
The assumption in this policy is that people practicing
homosexual behavior are a minority group in a special category from
other people and that they're in need of special protection based on
homosexuality or some other sexual orientation. Also it is to be
assumed there is a genetic basis for homosexuality or bisexuality or
whatever orientation they may have.
What are the problems with this? The problem is an underlying
message that homosexuality and other sexual behaviors that violate
common morals are acceptable in the community for anyone who
wants to engage in such behavior.
While not defined in an ordinance, sexual orientation could
include any sexual behavior, such as homosexual and bisexual
promiscuity, orgies or group sex, masochism, sex with animals, and
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you could go on. Those are sexual orientations. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That's right.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I'm going to ask you to refrain.
We're going to show everybody the dignity that you expect yourself.
Let them state their opinion. This is your time up. Keep your
opinions to yourself until you get up here to the podium.
MR. ABNEY: This policy, in effect, labels all objections to
homosexuality as unacceptable rather than identifying the dangers of
unhealthy behavior as a problem.
Homosexuality has never been shown by any controlled
scientific study to be determined by genetics. Sexual practices can
and do change over time, but this policy ignores that change and
assumes it does not matter what type of sexual behavior a person
desires.
What are the results.9 Students, teachers, and employees who
want to engage in homosexuality, bisexuality and other sexual
experimentation are protected in doing so, and in expressing this to
others in the community, business place and school system, this, in
essence, becomes an endorsement of the behavior that should be
discouraged for the good of the community and for youth who may
feel confused by their sexual desires.
Even reporting of news is affected when special attention is
given to homosexuals. This is seen when news reporters avoid the
use of the term homosexual when reporting sexual crimes against
boys and male teens, such as in the recent cases involving a large
religious organization.
There are many other reasons why we should delete the term
sexual orientation. Thank you. (Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Gerald Noonan, and he will
be followed by Rick Hollingsworth.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Mr. Noonan had to leave.
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MS. FILSON: Okay. Rick Hollingsworth. He will be followed
by Marco Geri.
MR. HOLLINGSWORTH: My name is Rick Hollingsworth. I
am pastor of Church of Grace here in town. I've been a full-time
resident for about 10 years.
You know, I start off with a religious perspective, I guess,
because I'm a pastor. I can't help but speak that way.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. He
created man and woman. It doesn't stretch the imagination to
consider God's plan was not for man to sleep with man or woman to
sleep with woman.
Well, you might say you don't believe in creation, but rather that
mankind evolved. Yet, even in this belief it takes a male and a
female to continue mankind. Even in science, it takes male and
female genes to reproduce.
So why should we make a group of people who, by their own
will of choice, have supported a lifestyle that contradicts the laws of
God, the laws of evolution and the laws of science to become a
protected class of people?
As to protection of individual rights to believe whatever they
choose to believe, isn't this already protected by the constitution and
the laws of our country? Even God allows mankind to choose who
they will serve.
The seal behind your heads states, in God we trust. The
shallowest amount of research will prove that our Founding Fathers'
intent was to provide this country the right to serve the almighty
God, not a God.
The religious freedoms provided by our Founding Fathers was
to found our country and this county on the principles of the
almighty God, allowing the freedom of individuals to choose, yet
without shaking that foundation of standing on the rock.
Today we can no longer state that this country is founded on the
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almighty God. This was not the intention of the Founding Fathers.
Isn't it a shame that the righteous purpose of this ordinance
protecting individuals from violence and ridicule has so been clouded
by sexual immorality? This is not really about human relations as it
relates to minorities. If it were, there would be a large representation
of blacks and Hispanics here today.
God, in his infinite wisdom, allows mankind to choose a life of
sin or a life of righteousness. We should be no different.
I stand against violence and the ridicule of individuals for
choices that they have made. Jesus, when he was confronted by a
prostitute, knelt at her feet and simply stated with a humble heart, go
and sin no more.
There is one thing that I must clarify for the commissioners.
Yes, there was an ad run in the Naples Daily News, and it was
sponsored by churches and businesses of this community with the
intent to bring public awareness to this issue, and there's been an
accusation made by the media that these companies that sponsored
this ad were not real companies. Well, I want to tell you, they were.
And if you would desire to know their names and the individuals
owners, I'd be glad to give them to you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I'm going to have to ask you to wrap
it up though, sir.
MR. HOLLINGSWORTH: Done, thank you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Marco Geri, and he will be
followed by Don Tomei.
MR. GERI: Thank you very much for giving me this time.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Would you state your name for the
record, sir.
MR. GERI: Yes, sir. My name is Marco Geri, and I'm a
resident of Collier County.
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December 17, 2002
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you.
MR. GERI: I love homosexuals. I do not approve of what they
do. God loves homosexuals, and he does not approve of what they
do. God is not a tolerant God, and it says so in his word.
This ordinance as passed with sexual orientation included, this
takes one more step backward in our country toward the Founding
Fathers and what they've stood for and the Christian principles in
which they founded it in.
You as the commissioners will' be making a decision now, and
then in the judgment time a decision will be made against you. You
have the choice now to affect our children and our grandchildren
with the choices you make and the decision you make here today, so
I ask that you make the righteous one. Thank you. (Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Don Tomei, and he will be
followed by Jerry Rutherford.
MR. TOMEI: My name is Don Tomei. I've lived in Collier
County for about the past 17 years. I'm a former firefighter at City of
Naples and North Naples Fire Department.
First, after listening to the fellow with the state civil rights
commission, I kind of think that this exemplifies the oxymoron of
bureaucratic redundancy, but -- because I think they're doing a lot of
things that we're asking to do.
Second off, I believe there's a lot of well-meaning people here
that I've heard from both sides, but I think the well meaning -- and
there are some well-meaning people in support of this proposal as it
stands, but there are those with an agenda to use seemingly a lick of
truth to disguise upon a poison.
I'm against the wording of the ordinance. I believe sexual
orientation in particular is, as a protected class, is kind of dangerous
to get into. It's like, where do we end? You know, next do we go
overweight? Do we go alcoholics? Do we go, you know, height,
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weight? Do we go eating disorders? You know, where do you end
on this one? We're supposed to have liberty and justice for all.
This in no way means that I don't like homosexuals or that I'm a
homophobe. It means that I don't believe that behavior should be
considered protected. We know that there's an agenda behind this by
the proponents of the wording and that the true intent of this
ordinance has been hijacked by them.
I believe that the ordinance as its inception state started is
honorable, but I believe it has been hijacked.
My wife and myself have been foster parents in Collier County
for four years, and we do have a hearts of children -- we have hearts
for children.
The other night while watching some 50's and 60's sitcoms -- it
was Leave it to Beaver and that type of sitcom -- it dawned on me
that our childhood and your childhood -- we're probably about the
same age -- was afforded the opportunity to maintain a level of
innocence.
Issues such as this would facilitate the teaching in our grade
schools, and it even says in there that they'll take it to the schools for
different reasons. And it would have -- teach us in our grade schools
that Heather has two mommies and it's okay for men to have sex with
men and women to have sex with women.
We would be responsible for ripping them off of a level of
innocence that they deserve, just as we had, that has no right to --
they really don't need to know this at that age. I believe we've lost a
whole generation of innocence.
I'm able to sometimes counsel with couples that are getting
divorced. And I see that while they're arguing back and forth trying
to get their point across, that their children become pawns. Their kids
are pawns. I don't believe they really want them to be, but they
become pawns, and they want to get their agenda across by using the
kids, and I see the same things happening with the sexual orientation
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crowd.
There was a -- words of wisdom that a simple man gave me
about 30 years ago. He said, right is right when nobody's doing it
and wrong is wrong when everybody's doing it.
I have a petition here, signed petitions by 500 people that
believe the same thing, that right is right, and I'd pray that you'd
make the right decision, a right one. (Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Jerry Rutherford, and he will
be followed by Dean Helsdon.
MR. RUTHERFORD: I'm Jerry Rutherford, over 20-year
resident of Naples. I count it an honor and a privilege to be able to
speak to you regarding the human relations committee. It may be
redundant, but orientation does cover all the following: Gays,
lesbians, transvestites, pedophiles, necrophilia, bestiality, sadomaso
-- S&M is good enough, and any other perversion.
Next there's the matter of minority status. In order to be legally
classified as a minority, a group must have a wide-spread
discrimination, have experienced a negative economic impact due to
discrimination, must have an immutable characteristic that defines it.
Homosexuals do not qualify in any of the above.
In comparing homosexuals and African-Americans, the
differences were pointed out by the Wall Street Journal in a
nation-wide study. Since we have a short time frame, I'll just give
you some of the things that were said.
Sufficient is it to say that legally, financially and educationally,
homosexuals are at the top of the class while black Americans are at
the bottom of the class.
Homosexuals have never been denied the right to vote, faced
legal segregation, denied access to bathrooms or restaurants, water
fountains or been denied access to business. Black Americans have.
In the last 10 years, no judge in Florida has found discrimination
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in any case of sexual orientation.
My reason for standing against the inclusion of sexual
orientation in the human relations ordinance is as follows: In
response to your attorney regarding lawsuits, recent court cases show
that when sexual orientation is added to the human relations
ordinance, standards of faith become secondary. For example, the
Georgetown University, a Catholic University in Washington, D.C.,
was sued by homosexuals because the university refused to allow a
gay rights coalition to be recognized or permitted to use university
facilities.
The university lost the suit because the court stated that the
compelling government interest in eliminating discrimination
outweighed the interference with the university's religious
convictions, and the court compelled the university to open its
facilities for teaching that is antithetical in its religious convictions.
The adding of sexual orientation to the ordinance is tantamount
to breaking the laws of the State of Florida. Statute 800.2, titled
unnatural and lascivious acts, states that anal and oral copulation
constitute lascivious acts. Are the commissioners proposing to
protect a class of people who advocate breaking the law?
I believe in you. I believe that you'll do the right thing, legally,
morally, and ethically for our community. I hope my faith in you
will not be disappointed. I humbly request that no human relations
committee be formed and -- or at least that the language not include
sexual orientation or marital status.
I believe that local groups already formed can handle
discrimination problems. Human behavior is a choice, not a
characteristic. Thank you. (Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Dean Helsdon, and he will
be followed by Reverend Ken Chickk.
MR. HELSDON: Good afternoon, Commissioners and the
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public. It is sad that such an educated society -- CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Would you -- sir, before your begin,
state your name and where you're from.
MR. HELSDON: I'm sorry. I'm Dean Helsdon. I'm from
Naples.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you, sir.
MR. HELSDON: Originally from Canada.
It is sad that such an educated society can become so easily
deceived. I'm the president and owner of Buy-All, Incorporated. We
are a small development company in Collier County.
During the NBC News this morning, it was aired that our
company was unable to be reached by telephone, Internet or by
person, implying this is a fictitious company based on an ad that we
had been running to support -- we had supported giving public
awareness to this meeting.
I believe that we must as a county be prepared for the
consequences of sexual orientation. What is next?
I am a strong believer that we will be held accountable by God
for our choices, including the acceptance of sexual orientation as a
protected class.
How many generations will be affected by us allowing this
amendment to pass? Let's not deceive our Forefathers and/or our
children. Thank you. (Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Reverend Ken Chickk, and
he will be followed by Mordon (sic) Collins.
MR. CHICKK: Hi, how are you today? Good to see
everybody.
My name is Ken Chickk. I'm a pastor here in town. I was a
youth pastor here in the community for almost five years and now a
pastor of a small church less than a year old here in town. Probably
the youngest congregation in town too.
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But as a Christian first, I'm driven by love. The second greatest
commandment Jesus said is to love your neighbor as yourself. Does
love give an inebriated alcoholic keys to a car to drive home or does
love drive that alcoholic home and make sure he gets into bed safely?
We, as Christians, we love the homosexuals. Hear that. We love
the homosexuals. But love doesn't mean that we approve of a
lifestyle that statistically in this nation has been proven to be
destructive through high rates of alcoholism, drug addiction and
sexually transmitted diseases, nor does love allow that lifestyle to
penetrate our society and the lives of our children.
We feel very strongly that if this passes, our children and our
grandchildren will feel the affects of this for years to come, and love
says we can't allow this to happen.
An old Arabic proverb said -- asks, how do you get a camel into
a tent? The answer is, one inch at a time. We see this ordinance as
getting a camel into the tent of our community, nose first. Where
does it stop, though, as many others have said before me?
In ancient times, people built walls around their cities to protect
them from the outside elements. And then the -- I'm sorry. People
put walls around their cities to protect them from outside elements,
the walls of our city and of our country as our political system.
Then what they did in ancient times is they put men of honor at
the gates of those cities, and those men would allow what would
come into that city and what would go out of that city.
The men of honor and the women of honor of our time are you,
our elected political officials. You are who will allow what will come
into our city and what will leave our city.
I beg you, I beg you, do not let this camel inch its way into our
community. It will inch its way not only into our community but
into our schools and into our children. Thank you very much.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Mordon (sic) Collins, and
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she will be followed by Stratton Pollitzer.
MS. COLLINS: Mardon Collins.
MS. FILSON: Thank you.
MS. COLLINS: Thirty-year resident of Naples.
We all know someone, someone we love, an acquaintance, a
friend, maybe a family member, who is a homosexual. I am not a
homophobic, but I am here today to tell you that it is wrong,
definitely not to be considered an alternative lifestyle which is, I
believe, the real underlying purpose of this proposed resolution.
The entertainment world and the liberal arts would have our
young people believe this lie. By desensitizing us, we begin to
accept what is wrong as not so wrong. This attacks the very heart of
family values and moral principles. Remember how great
civilizations have fallen into ruin because of sexual immorality.
I believe we are in danger of helping history repeat itself if you
pass this proposed resolution. We don't want another version of Key
West here in Naples.
Prejudice is also wrong. I am not insensitive to the terrible
suffering so many have been through. The persecution of Jews and
of blacks and others at the hands of those over which they had no
control.
Don't confuse that kind of pain and suffering with the
indignation and censure attached to a lifestyle chosen by an
individual of their own free will that is against God's will.
Homosexuality is a perversion, a perverted lifestyle that isn't
God's way. God created man in his own image, male and female.
God blessed them and said for them to be fruitful. A homosexual
union is not God's plan and it is out of God's will. It's as simple as
that. It's wrong and I believe that in your hearts, each one of you
know it.
You don't have to submit to pressure to do this because others
elsewhere have. I challenge you to do what is right and say no, we
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don't need this in Collier County. We can respect each other as
individuals and live together without validating an immoral lifestyle.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
For the sake of our youth, reject this proposal.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Stratton Pollitzer, and he
will be followed by Karen Doering.
MR. POLLITZER: Commissioners, my name is Stratton
Pollitzer. I come to you from St. Petersburg, Florida.
I want to thank you for your commitment today to addressing
the issues of discrimination in Collier County. Equality Florida
works with county commissions across the state. And in an effort to
reduce discrimination, our mission is to end discrimination based on
race, gender, class and sexual orientation. We have over 100
members in Collier County.
I do want to recognize the NAACP for their leadership, and
Laverne Franklin for their leadership on bringing this issue forward,
and the hard work that's been done over the last year by the many
different communities experiencing discrimination in Collier County
to put this ordinance together.
I want to speak specifically now about sexual orientation, and I
want to say that I've been a little nervous about coming down and
speaking with you today because this is very painful. You can
imagine what it feels like as a gay man to listen to the things that
we're hearing in this room today. I believe that we are listening to
the very evidence for why we need this kind of an ordinance.
(Applause.)
MR. POLLITZER: Today in Collier County it is totally legal to
fire someone from their job, to evict them from their home, to deny
them food at a restaurant simply because of their sexual orientation.
It's legal and it happens and we track it at Equality Florida because
people call us when it happens.
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And when they call us from Collier County, we tell them, I'm
sorry, there is nothing we can do.
Most of Florida currently protects people from discrimination
based on sexual orientation. Twelve cities. More than 10 million
Floridians live or work in a community where sexual discrimination
-- discrimination based on sexual orientation is illegal.
Every single commission and city council that has looked at this
issue in recent years has come to the same conclusion, this kind of
discrimination exists, it's wrong, and there's something that we can
do about it.
If you remove sexual orientation from the ordinance today, it
will be worse than where we were before the issue came forward,
because you will have looked at the issue and made an affirmative
decision and a statement to your community that this kind of
discrimination can continue.
It's very humbling to stand up here with this community and
with these gay and lesbian people in Collier County who have had
the courage to come forward without any guarantee of safety, who
could lose their jobs tomorrow if they out themselves at this hearing
today, and it's humbling to stand here with them.
I know this is not an easy moment for you. I know that this is
going to be a difficult and closely-watched decision, but it will be a
historic decision.
Honorable people take a stand against discrimination even when
it is uncomfortable, and I hope that you will seize this opportunity,
perhaps the only one you will have in your lifetime, to stand with
your community against discrimination and pass this ordinance.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Karen Doering, and she will
be followed by Char Wendel.
MS. DOERING: Hi. My name's Karen Doering, and after
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listening to some of the other speakers, it's actually a lot more
difficult to be up here than I thought it would be.
I'm an attorney with the National Center for Lesbian Rights, and
I also serve as a consultant with Equality Florida, but I have a local
connection here. My mom lives here, and I visit here a lot.
And, in fact, my mom worships at the First Baptist Church
where the minister stood up here and handed you the hundreds of
signatures where they were specifically advocating that people like
me should be able to be fired from our jobs and kicked out of
restaurants and denied the basic human dignities that everybody else
receives. They were up here advocating for discrimination to be legal
in Collier County. And -- that's just a little more challenging than I
thought.
I wanted to address a couple of legal points. First, Mario Valle
who was here speaking from the Florida Commission on Human
Relations, after he spoke, I caught him in the hallway because I
suspected that he's not an attorney from several of the things that he
said, because they were clearly incorrect.
Prior to working the job that I have now six years, I was an
employment discrimination attorney and worked extensively with the
Florida Commission on Human Relations.
Mr. Valle is not an attorney. And in fact, he's just a volunteer
commissioner and does this only a very small portion of the time.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And he's well respected in the
community of Collier County.
MS. DOERING: Absolutely, absolutely. And I very much
respect the work that he does and that the commission does, but I
wanted to correct a few things that he said that were incorrect, okay?
He made a point about the county investigating himself and him
having some concerns. And he cleared this up in the hallway, and I
believe he'd be happy to do it here as well.
Those are his personal concerns and not actually legitimate legal
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concerns. This was an issue that came up in the city of St.
Petersburg. We did extensive legal investigation, and I have a legal
memorandum that I'd be happy to share with the commission. It's
simply not a valid legal concern. In the other 12 jurisdictions, it's not
a problem, and the Florida courts have ruled on that.
Also there are -- has been talk of removing all of the categories
from this ordinance and just creating a human relations commission
that addresses discrimination because discrimination is bad and
wrong. That is the one -- and if you do that, that is the one and only
way that this ordinance will create litigation and cost the county
money. That -- because to remove all the categories is
unconstitutional.
And if I could, I just want to quote the U.S. Supreme Court from
Romer versus Evans, quote, enumeration is the essential device used
to make the duty not to discriminate concrete and to provide
guidance for those who must comply.
If you eliminate all of the categories, you create an
unconstitutional ordinance that is subject to challenge by anybody
who's brought before the commission. And, of course, any time
there's a legal challenge, the county would have to defend this in
court. You would create an unconstitutional and unenforceable
ordinance.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Char Wendel, and she will
be followed by Joshua I-K-E-M-I-R-E, Ikemire.
MS. WENDEL: Hello. My name is Charlene Wendel, and I
speak to you today as president and CEO of Planned Parenthood of
Collier County, an organization no stranger to controversy in our
community, and I'm also a resident of Naples for the past 10 years.
Before the public speakers were -- began to speak,
Commissioner Coletta said, we are all here today to listen to each
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other, to respect each other, and to respect a difference of opinion.
Well, I believe if that was true, that we all respected each other and
respected each other's opinions and choices in our lives, we wouldn't
have a need for this ordinance. Unfortunately, that it not always the
case in this community.
Planned Parenthood was one of the organizations that received
the draft of the ordinance, and we were very pleased to review it and
make some of our suggestions and comments. We were very pleased
because we are committed to anti-discrimination in our community.
In fact, Planned Parenthood is a small employer. We're only a
million-dollar agency and we only employ 222 people, however,
we're proud that sexual orientation is a protected class in our
anti-discrimination policy.
And we are an organization that sticks its neck out in this
community to make sure that all choices are respected. I'm not going
to argue with you of whether a sexual orientation is a choice or a
preference or genetic or not, but what I will say today is the
discussions around what sexual orientation is could not be further
from the truth.
This ordinance is not going to protect pedophiles. That's not a
sexual orientation. That's a mental illness. It's not going to protect
necrophiliacs. That's not sexual orientation either. That's a mental
illness. Clearly gay and lesbian homosexual behavior is not a mental
illness, according to the American Medical Association and the
American Psychiatric Association.
This ordinance is about treating all residents of Collier County
fairly and ensuring that we all have avenues for discussion and that
we can all make our voices heard. Thank you. (Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Joshua Ikemire. I guess he
waives. Greg Pryer. Greg will be followed John LaRue.
MR. PRYER: My name is Gregg Pryer, and I live in Naples.
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You didn't give me enough time to get down here.
Recent events have revealed a growing intolerance and
discrimination against certain sexual orientations, even amongst our
high schools. This practice must be stopped, yet there is no statutory
authority to do so.
More communities and businesses are including sexual
orientation in their policies. The city of Orlando, and believe it or
not, the Cracker Barrel are recent examples of businesses and cities
including sexual orientation in their policies.
Collier should follow what is now becoming the norm and
include sexual orientation in its anti-discrimination definition. Thank
yOU.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is John LaRue. He will be
followed by Glenn Bradley.
MR. LaRUE: My name is John Michael LaRue. I'm a college
student at Palm Beach Atlantic University in West Palm Beach. I
also reside here in Naples, Florida. I graduated from Lely High
School last year.
I am a political science and Biblical studies major, so I have
actually hit this issue many times and studied this, so, therefore, I felt
compelled to come speak to you today.
But the first thing that I want to speak to you about is, I think we
had a time when we were actually discussing the ordinance itself, and
I actually disagree with much of the language in the ordinance, and,
therefore, I don't think it should be passed anyway.
One thing to note is, obviously the investigation part that was
brought up that I think is an egregious error in it, that there is no
power of investigation, why enumerate power to investigate to it?
The second thing is, in the objectives in section six in C, it says
to assist various groups and agencies of the community to cooperate
in educational programs and campaigns devoted to elimination of
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group prejudices, racial tensions, intolerance or discrimination.
I think this is against the first amendment. One reason why, how
about the group such as the KKK? I disagree with them fully, but
they do support racial tension, and we do not eliminate them here in
America. They are allowed to co-exist.
People are allowed to not like other people and to have
prejudices. And to say that we must eliminate these and to work
against that is just saying that they are wrong in their opinion.
Even in this place today, I've been called ignorant, simple
minded, I've been compared to a terrorist, and I've been compared to
a bigot by groups saying, these people that disagree with sexual
orientation, this is what they agree with.
They said that the only basis I stand upon is the fact that I'm
ignorant. See, I think that's a part of discrimination.
Obviously there's going to be people that we -- are against each
other, there's going to be disagreements, and we're not here to settle
all disagreements in a part here.
The other thing is, no recourse. We just had two lawyers get up
here and talk about how it was tough for them being gay and lesbian
and that if they were fired from their.job and they hadn't -- they
didn't have this commission, that they would have no recourse. Well,
with that commission it doesn't offer any recourse. There's no action.
This commission does not set up that action, so this commission
would be void there. Actually, the action that they could take would
be with the state commission. So this commission does not -- that
point is made moot because this commission does not come to that.
The third thing is, in the question of sexual orientation,
obviously, there are many people up here that have -- you just heard
somebody say that sexual orientation would not include pedophiles
and other things because those are mental illnesses. Well, those
mental illnesses are obviously something from birth and they are a
defect to the person. But it's just like their whole argument of sexual
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orientation is that it is from birth, or just like race, that the person has
it. So are we discriminating against them?
Any time that we make a law, are we discriminating against the
person that comes against law that? A murderer, are we
discriminating against them? No, I don't think so.
I think we make laws based upon right and wrong, not based
upon if we're hurting somebody else's feeling or if somebody is
getting excluded. That can't be the basis of your decision here today.
Thank you. (Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Glenn Bradley. He will be.
followed by Amy Biggs.
MR. BRADLEY: Good afternoon. My name is Glenn Bradley,
and I'm a resident of North Naples.
I want to be very clear that I support the ordinance as it stands,
and I want you to be certain there is no justifiable reason to remove
sexual orientation from this ordinance.
I'm a gay man, and throughout my course, throughout my
lifetime, I've been discriminated against, numerous occasions, as a
child because I was perceived to be gay by the playground bully, and
in college when friends or-- actually when I came out and people
had known me to be gay, I had come out to my car on numerous
occasions and it had been keyed or the windows had been broken in
my dormitory, things had been broken into.
Discrimination exists for no other reason than my sexual
orientation, and that is wrong.
I also want to make it very clear that from my point of view and
from where I'm standing and I'm listening to the opposition, I want
you to know that I do not feel any love coming from that side. It just
does not exist. From where I'm coming from, I feel hurtred (sic), and
I feel pain from what happens.
I know of people in Naples who have been discriminated
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against. I have known friends of mine to walk out of the local bars
and have their tires flattened, all four of them so that they had to take
a taxi home and they had to tow the cars back. I've known people to
be beaten up. I've known people to be call faggot, I've known people
to be called things that are much worse than that. It does exist, but
there's no place for us to go.
I'm fairly social and I'm fairly active in Naples. I don't -- I don't
pretend to know everything about what's going on, but I do know that
there is no agenda. We have no agenda. I have no agenda and
there's no hidden agenda. The only thing I'm looking for, the only
thing that the people who are currently trying to support the bill as it
stands, the only agenda that there may be is for equality, fairness and
justice. That's it and it's that simple. Thank you. (Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Amy Biggs, and she will be
followed by Kelly Cannon.
MS. BIGGS: My name is Amy Biggs, and I'm a resident of
Collier County. It seems to me that what Mario Valle has presented
about the state human relations is totally sufficient and more
effective than what Ms. Robinson has proposed.
I'm with Mr. Coyle, there is no set procedures in this ordinance,
and how can we vote yes to something this important when it seems
as though they're making it up as they go along?
As a concerned resident of Collier County and a registered
voter, I'd like to ask my elected officials, Mr. Halas, Ms. Fiala, Mr.
Coletta, Mr. Coyle and Mr. Henning, please vote no on human
relations commission. All citizens are already protected under
current laws. Thank you. (Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Kelly Cannon. She will be
followed by Joan Hungady.
MS. CANNON: Would it be possible for this lady to speak in
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my place, because she has to leave? Would that be possible?
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Sure.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Commissioner?
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Is that okay, Mr. Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, thank you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you. He's practicing.
MS. STOKES: Hello.
MS. FILSON: Are you registered, ma'am?
MS. STOKES: Yes.
MS. FILSON: And your name?
MS. STOKES: Karen Stokes.
MS. FILSON: Okay.
MS. STOKES: I'm Karen Stokes. I have recently moved to
Southwest Florida, and I bring great passion and interest in this
subject before you.
I commend you on covering this information so that we can
know how our laws will be manifested to not just one small group
but to everyone.
I bring a personal reason for asking you to strike down this
sexual orientation for coverage as far as a protected group. I
discovered after 31 years of marriage that my husband was a
homosexual. He was involved in teaching. He was at the
community college level and very involved in teaching, and because
of the information that I have to gather in order to have some court
proceedings, I was able to see what a lot of things will be actually put
into the school systems and into our teaching and education.
Education kept coming up in this ordinance as far as educating
people, educating people.
I'm here to ask you to make sure that everyone is represented.
There is no hatred in my heart. I love my husband. There is no way
that I would want to have any hurt against any other person. But I
will tell you that this lifestyle is not just an alternative lifestyle. It
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devastates families, it devastates communities, it devastates
friendships, and it is not a protected group. This is a choice that
people make.
And I would just ask you to strike down this sexual orientation
because not only did this devastate my family, personally, and my
marriage, but it has really devastated so many of our family
members.
I would like to offer, just as more information, some reports of
the kinds of teachings that go on in the school systems once this
sexual orientation is allowed to be protected. It is fair game then to
teach anything anywhere down to the kindergarten level. And I
would like to leave this with you so that you can look into that.
I don't believe that a protected group needs to be singled out.
There are enough protections in the laws that are already stated that
is going to cover every individual that is considered under sexual
orientation.
I would just ask you to consider that honorable people take a
stand for what is right, right for everyone, not just for a,
quote-unquote, protected group.
I appreciate your time today.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Christine Robbins. Christine
Robbins? Jon Berry. Following Jori will be Keith Schaad.
MR. BERRY: Good afternoon. For the record, my name is Jon
Berry. I'm a resident of Collier County, born in Florida, I'm a
business owner here in Collier County, I'm a taxpayer and I'm a
father.
And please don't hold this against me, I am a Christian, and I am
a Baptist, and I am gay. And I am here to tell you that of my clients
they include in this town, Collier County themselves, the Jewish
Federation, the Joe Logdon (phonetic) Foundation, the YMCA, just
to name a few. And I'm here to ask you to really look at what we
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have in front of us today and really to include that this is for
everybody and it's not exclusive. Thank you. (Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Keith Schaad. He will be
followed by Norma Pla.
MR. SCHAAD: My name is Keith Schaad, and I am a full-time
resident of Collier County.
Actually, it's been wonderful to be a part of this audience to hear
the diverse views, but unfortunately some of the diverse views are
concerning what this issue is really all about, and that's been from
lawyers to those that have presented it. There's been constant back
and forth. To me, one thing that is obvious, nobody really knows
what this is about. I think everybody has their own agenda.
If this is a -- something -- to me, it seems to be coming away
with, that we're trying to create a new arm of the government. To
me, this is -- to say the least, is redundant. We do have protection.
And one thing that I was amazed at hearing was the thing that is --
was vehemently stated, that one thing we don't want to come away
with is that this commission would be for the rights of people -- I was
amazed at that statement -- that that would be the worst thing to
accomplish.
There are differences of opinions on what this is all about. I
think, number one, the establishment of this commission needs to be
much more fine tuned, much more precise than what it is. This is
phenomenal that it's gotten this far, that there's not real clear-cut
evidence of what this is all about.
The fact that this, it's stated, is not going to be any -- any source
of recourse, there were several statements that said, many times, as it
stands now. And then somebody else comes along and says, but
there are no hidden agendas. And this is, again, phenomenal.
I think there are agendas on both sides of this issues, and I think
they need to be spelled out a little bit more clearly.
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The fact is if-- as one individual stood up, we say this is to
promote tolerance. And as an individual stood up who I do not
know, I've never met him before -- obviously as he spoke he was a
minister, and behind me came the comment was, now we're going to
hear from the religious right, and it was said in a very derogatory
statement.
The fact is, folks, establishing this commission is not going to
end discrimination. It's not going to end discrimination. But I think
everybody in this room is for the promotion of the rights of
individuals. I am for the rights of individuals, but I am not -- I
haven't seen anything that tells me as a taxpayer how this is going to
make sure my rights are protected, or anybody else's rights in this
room are protected.
So I think there's a lot more that really needs to be discussed. I
think as the conversations have come out and testimony has come
out, it has become -- there are agendas here.
You folks are wise enough to see this. If I can see it, I'm sure
you can see it. And I think that's really maybe what needs to be
addressed. Maybe some more specific wording. What is this really
to accomplish? Who is this going to benefit and how is it going to
benefit?
So from what I see right now as a taxpayer, I would hope you
would strike this whole thing down at this point. Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Norma Pla, and following
her-- Kelly Cannon, do you still wish to speak? MS. CANNON: Sure.
MS. FILSON: Okay. You'll be next. Go ahead.
MS. PLA: Hi, my name is Norma Pla, and I've lived in Naples,
Florida, since 1979 when I just had finished graduate school and
obtained a master's degree, and my husband and I moved here.
At the time we opened our first business, West Coast Windows.
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At this point I own and operate two business, and I have a Florida
real estate broker's license.
I'm concerned. I'm very concerned about this ordinance, and
that's why I'm here. I took a business trip this summer to California
visiting some suppliers. And I'm originally from La Jolla, so I had an
opportunity to speak to some of the companies. Some of them are
moving from California based on ordinances like this.
Sexual orientation is very controversial. It's a hot issue. We see
that here today. Some people come up and they -- they think that
they're being very tolerant, and then other people come up, a couple
of our last few speakers, that have had their feelings hurt and they've
expressed pain from just what they've heard here today.
I employ over 25 people in a manufacturing company, one of
my companies. In that company, I have, I think, all the major
religions represented, Jewish, Christian and Muslim among them. To
get them to become tolerant, you've got to cut out the Torah, pages of
the Torah, pages of the Koran, and pages of the Christian Bible.
I have been the recipient of a frivolous lawsuit during the 22
years I've owned businesses here in Collier County. That lawsuit
was tabled the day before we were going to trial, but it had cost me
$30,000 in legal fees.
Now, when Ms. Robinson spoke, she answered some of my
questions. But then afterwards, some other questions came up, such
as there was said, step two, what is step two.9 They said enforcing
this thing. And some are other questions that I have when I read the
ordinance, the words are very nebulous. What is intolerant? What's
intolerant to one person is not intolerant to me, for example. I guess
I'm a tough cookie. I don't get my feelings hurt that easily, you
know.
I mean, we've all been called names in school. We've all -- I
had one employee one time ask me to put in my manual that they
wouldn't talk about her because she -- they said she was breaking the
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chairs because she weighs over 250 pounds. I said, I'm sorry -- I'm
sorry that they're saying that, but what can I do? I mean, we have
free speech here. We have to have some leeway.
As I see it, this ordinance would lead to problems for
businesses. It could cause lawsuits to us. Even Ms. Robinson said,
they can get their own lawyers. This elevates a behavior to a
protected class.
Also, Collier County -- I have six pieces of property in Collier
County. I pay a lot of taxes. We need roads, we need schools, we
need better traffic, especially north, south. We don't need to open
this can of worms.
Please, at least take the sexual orientation out. Thank you.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We're going to hold up just for a
minute while the -- you all set? Okay. Continue.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Kelly Cannon. She will be
followed by Robert Biggs.
MS. CANNON: I'll be real brief. I think you've heard a lot
today. My name is Kelly Cannon. I work in Collier County, and I'm
a resident of Lee County. I live in Estero.
First of all, I want to thank you so much for rapidly responding
to my emails. I commend you for that, because I know you-all are so
very busy. And I do want to commend you also for being such
wonderful listeners. I appreciate that ability.
And I'd like to just real quickly state my appreciation of all the
efforts and the long hours that have gone into the forming of that
proposal. And I know how much hard work that must have been;
however, I do, along with many others, I -- and I stated in my emails
that I'm not comfortable with the phrasing of the sexual orientation.
I work as a children's director at a Baptist Church, and I could
go on and on about that, but I just want to say that, of course I hope
you don't take me wrong, because I do not believe in discrimination.
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I have a gay niece and I love her dearly. I give her all the attention I
possibly can, and I just adore her, so I don't want to be taken in the
wrong way.
But I do believe that this ordinance on the surface looks
honorable and very appealing, but yet, I do believe the
implementation of the details could be very problematic.
And so I'm not going to be dramatic and go through all my
concerns, because I did email them to you. And again thank you for
reading them. And I just want to, for the record, reiterate that my
hope is that you will not approve the ordinance that is including this
phrase of sexual orientation. Thank you. (Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Robert Biggs, and he will be
followed by Marilyn Von Seggern.
MR. BIGGS: My name is Robert Biggs. I live here in Collier
County. I want to thank Chairman Coletta and Vice Chairman
Henning, Commissioner Fiala, you, Commissioner Halas, and you,
Commissioner Coyle, for having us here today.
I want to tell you that I oppose this human rights commission
for the following reasons: First, I believe that the constitution of the
United States and federal laws protect every human being in America
today.
I believe that this simply just creates a special status for what I
believe is not actually a minority. I don't believe that this really
represents the majority of Collier County.
I believe that if this is passed, I believe the ACLU attorney that
spoke to you earlier today will be visiting us again, he'll be visiting
our schools, the City of Naples and businesses here, and the county,
Collier County as well.
I think there's more to this than we're seeing on the surface. I
think that there's, as many people have pointed out already, there are
agendas here, and I don't think that this is really about the sexual
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orientation or anything. I think is an opportunity for people to come
to Collier County and start working, and I think it's really going to be
just a clearinghouse for litigation and information for litigation.
The minute number of Collier County homosexuals and their
visitors here today are really attempting to persuade you, the
commissioners, our elected officials, to accept what clearly the
voting citizens of Collier County do not want.
The label of this proposal that has been given would have us
believe there are no protections under the law. Of course, this is
absolutely false. Even a sympathetic reporter would attempt to
influence Collier County policy.
Clearly, the media does not speak for the overwhelming
majority of voters, nor do they reflect the voters' views.
I would ask all five commissioners to vote no regarding and
sending a message to outsiders and political activists from around the
country who would seek to influence and manipulate our local
elected government. Thank you.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Marilyn Von Seggern. She
will be followed by William Seggern, Von Seggern.
MS. Von SEGGERN: I think we're related.
MS. FILSON: Yeah.
MS. Von SEGGERN: Good afternoon. My name is Marilyn
Von Seggern, and I live in Naples, Florida.
I'm here today to urge you to support the establishment of a
human relations commission for Collier County. I am also urging
you to include the word sexual orientation in the list of protected
classes.
Some members of the majority community do not see the need
for this human relations commission since they have not experienced
discrimination or do not perceive that it exists.
On the other hand, many members of the minority community
who have experienced discrimination, whether it be overt or subtle,
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feel a strong need to establish such a body at the county level.
The county commission needs to respond positively to this
request. The human rights commissioner -- human relations
commission can provide an important avenue for citizens to be heard
as well as a catalyst for improving relations among the many diverse
constituencies in our community.
Some members of the majority community oppose including the
word sexual orientation. Their reasons are based on their religious
beliefs about homosexual behavior. While you should respect their
right to these beliefs, you must also realize that as commissioners of
Collier County, you have an obligation to uphold the civil rights of
all our citizens not to be discriminated against, even if it is not the
right -- even if it's not consistent with one group's religious belief.
Every law abiding citizen should have the right to housing, a
job, access to public establishments, et cetera, regardless of age,
gender, race, ethnic origin, religion, handicap, or sexual orientation.
The protected classes listed in the ordinance have traditionally
been discriminated against in the past, and to leave one or more of
these groups out is to, in essence, endorse discrimination for the
omitted group.
The importance of the bill of rights and other of our nation's
guiding principles is not about protecting the rights of the majority
but extending the rights and privileges of a democracy to the smallest
minority.
I hope you will follow the lead of the other major counties in
Florida and adopt this ordinance as written. And thank you for
taking the time to hear my opinion.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you, ma'am.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is William Von Seggern. He
will be followed by Dean Smith.
MR. Von SEGGERN: I'm William Von Seggern. I live on
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Linnet Lane in North Naples, 34119.
I would like to share with you some thoughts concerning the
human relations commission, and more specifically, the inclusion of
sexual orientation as a protected class. I think that it's not correct to
assume that the opponents of this issue speak for the majority of the
citizenry of Collier County.
Just because they are vocal and/or quote or refer to sacred text
of one type or another does not imply that they speak for the
majority. They are espousing their cause and nothing more or less
than that.
I recently read that the common element of many of the major
religions in the world is the idea of compassion. Compassion is an
act of each person being concerned about the needs of all other
persons, especially the minorities among us. It also implies advocacy
on behalf of the minorities. They do not have a voice equal in power
to the voice of the majority. They need protection from the vagaries
of the rich and the powerful.
Who are the minorities? They are those who live in substandard
housing and work by the sweat of their brow to provide food for our
tables. They are those who are females that are passed over for
advancement in their jobs or denied equal pay for equal work. They
are people of color who have to struggle with the white power
structure that prevents them from being considered of value. They
are those who are not given equal opportunity for employment
because they are over 50 years of age. Included also are those who
come from other cultural groups, who come from religions that are
not part of the norm, those who are disabled. Also let me add, those
who are gay and lesbian.
When a lesbian speaks out about her sexual orientation in one
evening recently and then gets a phone call the next morning at eight
a.m. from one of her clients who read about her in the press, the
client's advising her that her professional services are no longer
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needed by his firm, that's discrimination. The decision was not based
on her qualifications but rather on her sexual orientation. This is
discrimination.
When a gay person is unable to bring his partner to a social
event, this is discrimination.
We all are quick to recognize the normally protected classes that
we so easily pass over sexual orientation. This is a minority that is
afraid to be open and vocal. They do not feel confident to express
their needs. They could lose their jobs.
As a citizen of Collier County I implore you to protect all
minorities, to speak on their behalf, to consider their needs, and to
provide them with the protections provided to the majority. All
includes gays and lesbians, the substantial percent an average of our
community who have to hide in the shadows because they're afraid to
come out. Thank you. (Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Dean Smith. He will be
followed by Thomas Dawson.
MR. SMITH: Good afternoon, Commissioners. For the record,
my name is Dean Smith. I've been a resident of Collier County for
over 13 years, and I'm here to ask the board to adopt this ordinance
as it's been proposed, after all the work of everybody that's been
involved.
I had to give a lot of thought before I decided to come up here
and speak to you today. I didn't intend to come here and speak to
you. I intended to come and show my support for this ordinance;
however, there have been some developments in the last few days
that have changed that for me.
And the young lady that got up here earlier was speaking the
truth, it's very difficult to come up here in front of you.
But as you-all know, communications with the commissioners
about this or any other issue, become public record, matters of public
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record.
And a concerned friend of mine forwarded a message to me that
was sent to one of the commissioners by a colleague of mine,
someone that I work closely with much of the time.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You can't be heard. Could you
speak into the microphone, please.
MR. SMITH: Sorry. And I think that the words in the message
that was sent make the case for this ordinance better than anything
that I could say to you myself.
I'm going to read a quote from that message. It's a very short
message, but it carries a very strong message. The subject of the
message is the human rights commission, and it says, from my
perspective, the whole idea is nonsense. But to add the garbage
about any sexual orientation is horribly wrong. Please stand up
against this assault on the good people of this county as you have
done on so many other issues.
I'm here to say that I'm a hard-working tax-paying member of
this community, a productive member of this community, and it's
difficult to stand up here, and I am fearful to say that I also happen to
be gay, and to know that a co-worker of mine has ideas like this,
which were obviously sent in a communication to a commissioner
probably without any thought that they might be evident to me, really
is a concern to me.
I've been very lucky in the 13 years that I've lived here to be
employed in a place where I can be open, where they know my
partner of almost 15 years. And this changes the way I feel about my
work environment.
It's not a direct attack on me, but it changes the way that I feel
about going there every day and about the people that I deal with and
what they might think of me simply because of my sexual
orientation.
And as one of those good people of this county, I am asking you
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to stand up for me and for all the citizens of Collier County by
passing this ordinance. Thank you. (Applause.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Ms. Filson, we're going to take a
1 O-minute break at this time. We will start again at 25 minutes after
the hour.
(A recess was taken.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Take your seats, please. Take your
seats, please.
Okay. Once again, the procedure we have, if you feel that
someone else has made the statement totally clear and has said your
point for you, you may wish to waive, you may wish to state from
where you're sitting that you are for the ordinance or opposed to the
ordinance. But in any case, we'd like to hear from anyone that has
their name up here.
Would you please continue, Ms. Filson.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Bob Olson. He will be
followed by Thomas Dawson.
MR. OLSON: I'd like to thank you-all for taking the time to
listen to this. My message is real simple, I think we ought to all be
treated fair and equally. I think this is an extremely important issue
that we be treated fair and equally. And the representation of
minorities, as I sit here, I don't see it, but I don't care how many
people there are, I think we ought to all be treated fair and equally,
and thanks for your time and listening to us.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you, sir.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Thomas Dawson. Mike
Maggard? He will be followed by Charlie Bagley.
MR. MAGGARD. My name is Mike Maggard. I'm a resident of
Collier County for about three years. I'm a retired army officer, and I
currently pastor a church here in Naples.
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I want to say that, first of all, I am supportive in spirit of the
spirit and the concept behind a human relations commission. It
grieves me from where I've been sitting to hear, especially as a
minister of the gospel of grace and love and forgiveness and
transformation, that many are in great pain because they're
discriminated because of a behavior that I do not agree with, but
nevertheless are discriminated.
I think employment discrimination is wrong under any
circumstances; however, I do object to the inclusion of the language
of sexual orientation. I object to that, included in that language,
granting a potential class, a protected class status for that, to a
category of behavior termed sexual orientation. I do primarily for
free speech considerations.
I think it restricts the free exchange of ideas to protect certain
categories of behavior by labeling those that oppose those categories
of behavior as being bigoted or being prejudiced or being hated.
Let me give you an analogy. Suppose one of you were a
physician and you were walking down the street, I was walking down
the street, and I slipped in a puddle and I fell on my right arm. And
you saw me fall and you came over to me and you offered your
assistance. You said, may I examine your arm, and I said, yes, you
may examine my arm.
And you said, well, it appears to me as a physician that your
arm is broken. Well, I have several choices at that point. I can say,
well, thank you very much for your opinion, but I'd like to see my
own physician. I don't believe it's broken. I could say, thank you
very much. I'd like to receive your help to restore my brokenness.
But suppose there was an ordinance that prohibited me from
coming up to you and saying, on the basis of my expertise, I observe
that you have something broken and you could say, wait, what a
bigoted thing to say to me, what a hateful thing to say with (sic), how
could you accuse me of being broken.
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I think that's what effect the language in the ordinance does, it
restricts the ability for those, and does a disservice, to those who are
broken and know they're broken and want help. It does a disservice
to those who want to provide help to those who want that help, and it
does a disservice to the community by restricting the free exchange
of ideas about what is brokenness and what is not brokenness.
So on the basis of free speech, I would urge you not to include
the language on sexual orientation. Thank you. (Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Charlie Bagley. And
following Charlie will be Jeanne Brooker.
And I would like to announce that a book from the Collier
County library was found in the lady's rest room. If someone left it
in there, I have it. Go ahead.
MR. BAGLEY: Good afternoon. My name is Charlie Bagley.
I am a resident of Collier County. I am a sinner saved by grace of
the Lord Jesus Christ. And I invite all people in Collier County to
leave the wide road that leads to personal and eternal destruction and
come to the narrow road which leads to eternal life through Jesus
Christ.
My problem today in looking at what we're -- what you are
supposed to vote on is I'm wondering, which ordinance are you
voting on? The one that was described by Attorney Robinson and
several other people here today or the one that was described at the
last public meeting by Attorney Robinson and those people
supporting it?
At the last meeting, Attorney Robinson clearly stated that this
was only the first stage in the county's intended plan to implement.
The first stage would be to get the commission going. The second
stage would be for the commission to come back to you to get the
power to enforce what they want to do. And the third stage, which
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might go along with that, would be funding. And so I just wanted to
make it clear, try to clarify what we're voting on here today.
I feel for the people that come together and don't want anyone to
be discriminated against, and I agree with that totally. I see that there
is one avenue but it's very limited through the state to try to register
your grievances and your feelings and when things happen to you.
I would certainly tell anyone whose tires are slashed or whose
property is stolen to immediately make that known to the sheriff's
office, which is the proper place to register. You're already protected
under those areas. If someone even touches you and you do not want
them to touch you, in the State of Florida that is battery, and you are
protected. Do not let anyone take away the rights that you already
have.
The problem I know that you have and that you're facing in this
ordinance is that it is a runaway train. Did any of you even think that
when you talked to the NAACP a year ago regarding this that it
would come back in this form or manner? No. You had no way to
understand that this would happen. And so the train took a turn in
direction that you had no control under.
Now, the ordinance that I hear described today by Mrs.
Robinson and by other people is a great idea that all people in Collier
County should be free from any kind of intimidation and from any
kind of prejudice and should be free from any kind of personal
destruction toward them.
But then I have the problem of actually reading the real
ordinance that's in front of me, and none of that, what I just
described, described what's really here in the real paper that you have
to vote on.
This train, unfortunately, has your name on it and it has
unintended consequences all the way down the line.
Attorney Robinson already said publicly and in private that it
applies automatically to the Collier County Public School System.
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CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I need you to wrap up.
MR. BAGLEY: I'll wrap up. There's many other unintended
consequences.
My proposal would be to scrap this and work toward the idea
that she talked about, not this very general and destructive document
that's in front of you. (Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Jeanne Brooker. She will be
followed by Claire MacMiller.
MS. BROOKER: I almost said good evening.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: It's getting there.
MS. BROOKER: My name is --
COMMISSIONER COYLE: It's getting there.
MS. BROOKER: My name is Jean Brooker, and I've been a
resident of Collier County for 23 years.
First, let me applaud the county commissioners and the county
staff for responding in such a positive way to the concerns of the
cornrnunity regarding protection from discrimination.
My memory goes back to the time when a similar request was
stonewalled and ignored. Fortunately we are at a new time with new
players. Why is a human relations commission needed in Collier
County?
First, as stated in the draft ordinance, because, quote, the Board
of County Commissioners opposes discrimination and seeks to
promote and protect the interests, rights, and privileges of all its
citizens, end of quote.
And second, because individuals encountering discrimination
locally have no local government entity where their concerns will be
addressed.
While it is tree that federal and state agencies exist to handle
these parties, none of the agencies have offices in Collier County,
and all of them have more cases than they can deal with.
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Thus, local citizens have the burden to first find the appropriate
agency, travel out of the county to lodge their complaint, and deal
with what are very personal matters by long distance. This has a
dampening and discouraging effect.
The referral procedure is okay, but it will have a local base.
How much better to deal with a local entity knowledgeable about
local particulars? One would hopefully assume that this approach is
more direct and amenable to resolution in a more humane and timely
fashion.
Should all the enumerated groups currently included in the draft
be kept? I ask you, how could it be otherwise, unless the Board of
Commissioners wishes to amend its opposition to discrimination and
specifies which discrimination it supports and protects and which
groups of citizens it wishes to exclude from its protection.
It is important that the Board of County Commissioners cut
through the hysteria and hyperbole which the critics of this ordinance
have generated.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: You need you to wrap it up.
MS. BROOKER: Look at what it is and look at the provisions.
Brent Batton (phonetic) did it right today. It is an educational tool
for this community.
I have every confidence that having taken this very positive,
giant step forward, our current Board of County Commissioners will
continue to go forward, pass this ordinance, adequately staff and fund
it, and give the Collier County human relations commission the --
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Ma'am?
MS. BROOKER: -- leadership and support it will need to
become the voice for equality in our community. I thank you.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Claire MacMiller. She will
be followed by Robert Berens.
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December 17, 2002
MS. MacMILLER: Hello. I am Claire MacMiller, president of
the League of Women Voters of Collier County. The League of
Women Voters of Collier County supports the creation of a human
relations commission in order to protect the rights of all its citizens
against discrimination on the basis of race, color, sex, age, national
origin, religion, marital status, sexual orientation or disability in
connection with, among other things, employment, education,
medical care, housing accommodations, commercial transactions,
public service, resorts and amusement, and other places of public
accommodation, real estate transactions, or other means of
contracting and procurement.
The league believes that sexual orientation must be included in
any ordinance designed to prevent discrimination.
It's always good to remind ourselves that we Americans are
moral people. We are with a government of law founded to protect
the morals, interests, rights, and religious beliefs of all people. It is a
government of laws. Not of group preferences. It is bound to protect
the rights of every individual.
I, my friends, my church, might dislike you, your lifestyle,
might disagree with your concept of morality, feel prejudice against
your ethnicity, and likewise you may feel the same toward me, but
because we choose to live in a government defined by laws and not a
regime controlled by the likes of the Ayatollah Khomeini, Osama bin
Laden or Adolf Hitler.
Our governing bodies are obliged to protect each of us against
discrimination on the basis of personal individualities.
As the duly elected representatives of all the citizens of Collier
County, it is your sworn obligation to uphold and support the laws of
our nation.
Like it or not, if you delete any category protected under the
law, the county would be discriminating. If you do not adopt the
ordinance and adopt it in its entirety, you will be exposing our county
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to the possibility of legal action for failure to uphold and support the
laws of our federal government.
By establishing a human relations commission, you will provide
a level of relief for those citizens who have felt discrimination --
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Finish your sentence there, please.
MS. MacMILLER: -- so they will not find it necessary to seek
relief via the legal system. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Robert Berens. He will be
followed by David Gonzalez.
MR. BERENS: I'm Robert Berens. I live in the Oaks
Boulevard area up in North Naples.
I moved to the Naples area in 1985 after finishing my term as
sheriff of a county in Ohio with about twice the population of Collier
County, so I'm familiar with both the legal and many of the other
problems that arise both from the breaking of laws and the treatment
of minority groups.
You must remember that this entire issue came about due to the
death of a wanted felon who was let down by his family and his
community, who if they had done their duty, he would have been
arrested and been safely in jail instead of being out on the night that
he was shot to death. So sometimes we have responsibilities that we
don't like, but they're still obligations.
We already have a human rights commission in the state. We
have plenty of human rights protection under federal law, but
homosexuality is not a protected class and we shouldn't be giving it
the protection of a protected class.
The vast majority of people, I'm sure right here in this room, are
either Jewish or Christian, and if they believe their own scriptures,
they surely know that homosexuality is a sin and an abomination.
And how they can stand up here and speak as either Christians or
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Jews and condone this kind of behavior, I just don't understand.
But even if you don't have any Judeo-Christian principles,
there's the thing called the law to contend with. The State of Florida
said that sodomy is against the law, and you as a legal body have no
business making something legal that is already illegal under state
law. And we, as those who discriminate against people who are
breaking the law should not be made criminals because we don't
protect the rights of someone who's doing wrong.
We have had people -- people ask what groups we will exclude
from protection. We want to exclude people that break the law.
Whether it's God's law or the laws of the State of Florida, we should
not condone what they're doing by passing this resolution.
I think the entire resolution should be scrapped, but particularly
that relating to sexual orientation. Thank you. (Applause.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you.
MS. FILSON: David Gonzalez? Don Wiggins? Don will be
followed by Eddie Krzeminski.
MR. WIGGINS: My name is Don Wiggins. I want to thank the
commission for having this forum for us today. And I'm a resident of
Collier County for almost 23 years.
I have some real concerns as it relates to this ordinance. I have
a copy of this ordinance and it says, an ordinance of Collier County,
Florida, providing for creation of a human relations commission. If it
stopped there, that's not so bad. But the next phrase says, the
protection of civil rights.
Today, from Ms. Robinson, we heard from her that this
particular commission will have or a group of people will have no
enforcement ability, therefore, how do they protect? How is it that
they can't -- if they're not even investigative, except that that's not
defined yet by her words, how do they protect? It seems like, to me,
that we have some problems big-time in the language of this whole
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ordinance.
If the focus of this ordinance as it says to some degree down
below, whereas the Board of Collier County Commissioners seeks to
educate the Collier County community about existing, then it would
seem to me that we need to give this either a different name, a
different focus, that it is educational, not enforcing.
It seems like to me, we're not sure what we want this to be.
How many of us would purchase a house not having looked at it, not
having inspected the insides of it through ourselves or a qualified
inspector? How many of us would invest money? How many of us
would make those kinds of decisions without having done the
homework? And yet we have not done the homework. We don't
know what's coming from this. All we know is it's a committee. We
don't know what it's going to provide.
And much of the problems that we're hearing today, especially
for those that are against the sexual orientation and otherwise, I
mean, it's -- this thing is empty. It's empty. I want to encourage our
Collier County Commissioners to step back, to reanalyze this.
Ms. Robinson says, as of yet there are no enforcement powers.
What will that mean when there are? We don't know because we
have not had it laid out. And I don't think the citizens of Collier
County can afford to support something nor should this commission,
the commissioners, support something that they have no idea on.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Eddie Krzeminski. He will
be followed by Dwight Holter.
MR. KRZEMINSKI: Hi. My name's Eddie Krzeminski. I'm a
Collier County resident. I thank you for the opportunity to speak
here.
I'm reading where is says, suffering discrimination on the basis
of race, color, sex, age, national origin, religion, marital status or
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sexual orientation or disability. I'm not on here. I mean, all my
long-haired buddies aren't here. So why -- how come I'm not listed?
And like my wife, she's overweight, she's not on here.
If you're going to do it, you need to do it for everybody, not
single out groups.
For instance, I've lost a lot of jobs because I choose to keep my
hair long, okay? I've been turned down for a lot of work, and it
hurts, but that's my choice to keep my hair long, okay, just as being a
homosexual or lesbian is a choice.
I would ask that you would vote against this. Like Don just
said, I believe it is empty, and I believe that if there is laws in place
at state level and at the national level, that basically what we're doing
is we're getting a committee together to meet together and have
coffee, and -- oh, let me read this, each member shall serve without
compensation. But then as we read down here it says, the county
manager shall provide such staff as may reasonably be required at his
or her discretion, to assist the human relations commission in its
performance of its duties. Now, if I'm correct, that costs us money.
Now, in the beginning of this I was told it was going to be kind
of a free thing. Am I wrong when I -- I mean -- I would ask that you
would consider this, honestly, a joke. I thank you for your time.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Dwight Holter. He will be
followed by Howard Showalter.
MR. HOLTER: My name is Dwight Holter. I've been a
resident for (sic) Naples for four and a half years, a visitor to Naples
for some 20 years prior to that.
I've heard so far some disagreement as to whether the federal or
state laws have a term like sexual orientation included in them as a
protected class. I think it's absolutely correct that they do not. And
I'm wondering if you've given consideration as to why they don't
have that as a protected class. Could it be that it's going to create a
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legal mess of multi-lawsuit proportion?
We heard from Ms. Robinson, and I'm hesitant to take issue
with her because, from what I heard today, I have a very high regard
for her. But when, I think it was Commissioner Coyle, asked her,
how do you deal with the fact that that's not written in as a protected
class in the state and federal laws, treat it as if it were.
Now, I talk about a legal mess in general. This is probably it in
spades. A legal mess, when you start applying the laws that have
applied to minorities, the history and statistics that have applied to
minorities and minority situations, to sexual discrimination,
discriminating against women, apply those kinds of legal precedents
against this separation for which there's no legal precedent, and
you've got no coverage in your state and federal laws, what are you
going to do with it?
Now, I have sat through this whole session, and I've appreciated
the opportunity to do that. It's been interesting and long. And I don't
intend to continue its length except to say that I do support the
exclusion of the term sexual orientation if you choose to pass and
form this commission. Thank you. (Applause.)
MS. FILSON: Our next speaker is Howard Showalter. Also,
Mr. James Edwards, I called him earlier, and he has since came back
into the room and requested to speak. James Edwards. He will be
followed by Ken Keller.
(A recess was taken.)
MR. EDWARDS: James Edwards. I appreciate very much the
privilege of speaking to you and to you. As an eighty-one year old
man, four years two months in the Army, private to first lieutenant,
service in Europe, I have formed strong opinions. I had to to live.
So if you don't mind, let me talk to you. First of all, volunteers
are thanked for their work and said thank you and thank you. And
that's it. We need strength in anything we propose to do in order to
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have completion. This would normally mean that volunteers would
be nice to help, but let the work be done by someone who is
dedicated in their work and responsible for what they do.
Most of what I have said or wanted to say has been said, so I'm
not going to rehash that, but I would like to say this about sexual
orientation, every specie upon this earth is charged with the
continuation of the species. A very simple statement, but oh so true.
The next thing is that each and every person in this room was
born of woman, sired by a man. It is necessary for the continuation
of the country we call America, God given great country, that we
understand the true role of what each of us is on earth to do.
I support your idea heartily of the requirement or the need. The
method that we're approaching it I do not follow with you.
Thank you very much for your time.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you, sir.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Ken Keller. He will be
followed by Bob A-v-o-l-k. I can't read that. Go ahead.
MR. KELLER: I'm Ken Keller. I have been a carpenter in
Naples for sixteen years. In the desire to make a nice, progressive
political statement for Naples and Collier County, you may be
causing great mischief in your community. This commission as it is
proposed has the potential to be a pernicious evil.
First, homosexuality can only be defined in terms of behavior.
There is no other way to define it.
Secondly, there has been some comments about an agenda. I
would consider in this case and in this venue an agenda is a vision
and a plan for implementing that vision. I would think since you
folks made all of the trouble and money to get elected to your various
positions there, that you would have an agenda, that is, you have a
vision for Naples and Collier County. Otherwise you wouldn't have
bothered to run. I would think that your vision for Collier County is
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somewhat different than the vision for Collier County from South
Beach, Key West, San Francisco, what's happened in the Roman
Catholic Church, the boys' clubs and girls' clubs of America, the
attempts on the community of Boy Scouts.
These folks also have a vision and a plan for implementing that
vision in America. In some places they are successful, in other
places less so. My question for you is is this your vision for Naples
and Collier County. If it is not your vision for Naples and Collier
County, then you have to say no to the sexual orientation
implementation in this document.
The document seems to be a rather foolish attempt to do
something nice. I would like to see a lot of this take place in Collier
County. Racism is ridiculous. It's totally without foundation and I
would love to see it stopped at all levels.
Unfortunately there are bad people, there are mean people. I
was picked on for being a redhead. My van was keyed not too long
ago. Mean people suck. They have been around for a long time and
they're still going to be here. And you can't legislate away mean
people. That's just the way it goes. Sorry.
And incidentally, the lady from Planned Parenthood said that
sex with children is a mental illness. No, it's not, it's a crime, folks.
And it is behavior that is criminal, period. And, again, we're trying
to rename and relabel things that are criminal and they are
behavioral.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: Rob Avola. Forrest Head. Dalas Disney. He
will be followed by Eleanor Wood.
MR. DISNEY: Good evening. It is evening now. My name is
Dalas Disney. Commissioners, Mr. Manager, friends and neighbors.
I'm here today to voice my opposition to the creation of the
ordinance establishing a human rights commission for Collier
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County. While this is a noble issue and many find favor with stating
how no person of intellect should find fault with this endeavor, I feel
strongly that we have other more pressing issues to spend our time,
your time pursuing.
Further, as an informed, involved person in our community, I
honestly don't see the pressing need that has been conveyed by many
of the speakers here and at the November 6th meeting on the same
subject. The creation of this commission will divert attention from
important issues such as controlled growth, zoning, roads, general
management and oversight duties you were elected to undertake. It
will consume hours and hours of staff and attorney time. Cost for
advertising, cost for education, certainly lots of tax dollars attached
to it that haven't been identified here.
I have not seen as a part of this proposal a fiscal impact
statement that's required for recommendation of any other ordinance
that I regularly see as a part of my volunteer duties on other advisory
committees. I wonder if this cost has been calculated, if it can be
calculated and if so, when it would be made available for the public.
For years the Board of County Commissioners has been
unwilling to increase ad valorem taxes to pay for special interest
issues. Commissioners prior to the current seating have constantly
wrestled with budgets and priorities and how to pay for the needs of
this county in keeping the tax millage rates low.
I feel that I pay plenty in county taxes for the business and
properties that I own here. I want you to understand that I expect and
demand you to be good stewards of the tax dollars that I and
thousands of others of the public give to you for the good works and
deeds.
I'm very happy to live here in paradise and I think Naples is a
paradise. I believe I'm doubly blessed to have grown from childhood
here in Fort Myers and Naples. And I expect to live here to the end
of my days and I work really hard to remain informed about the
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issues of our community. I'm involved and honestly don't see the
hostility and strife that's being discussed by some of the people who
have come before you and possibly are yet to come to speak. The
establishment of this type of a feel-good commission will do nothing
that the already in place federal and state agencies can do and, in
fact, will just create another added unnecessary layer of government.
Put it out that the November 6th meeting here in this chamber by
supporters of this matter, the proposed ordinance is in response to the
NAACP request, the City of Naples and shooting death of Mr. Harris
-- I will wrap up in just a minute -- because our community has such
a problem.
As I recall the events, Mr. Harris was fleeing shooting guns and
was killed by an officer after he pointed a gun at him.
Representatives of Mr. Jackson's Rainbow Coalition and activists
stirred the racial plot -- pot. I don't support this and I don't think that
it has any need in the community.
Thanks for listening to me.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you, sir.
MS. FILSON: Next speaker is Eleanor Wood. She will be
followed by LaVerne Franklin.
MS. WOOD: Thank you. Commissioners, my name is Eleanor
Wood and I live out this way about a mile. I'm speaking on behalf of
the Democratic Women's Club of Collier County of which I'm
privileged to be the president.
The power to make the world a better place isn't given to
everybody and we urge you use it carefully. We wholeheartedly
support the formation of the Human Relations Committee. We
believe, we hope you believe in a level playing field, in equal
opportunity for all persons.
What -- in regard to the controversial sexual orientation subject,
what earthly bearing can sexual orientation have on operating a
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computer, flying a plane, being a bank teller or installing carpet.
Refusing a man or woman a job for such a reason should be illegal.
Special treatment is not the purpose of this ordinance. It's supposed
to ensure that the people in question receive the same treatment as
everybody else.
The argument put forth here that we don't need a human
relations commission because there's one in Tallahassee borders on
being ludicrous. In human relations even the appearance of concern
is important. If we had had this organization in place when the
shooting occurred, it wouldn't have gotten blown up like it did.
I wasn't going to bring religion into this because you can't settle
anything by the Bible, but I would like to tell you a little story. I
went to school with a fat boy named Jerry Falwell and I was invited
once to address the leaders of his church on the subject of wrapping
Christmas presents. I went and they were very nice and I spent an
hour, half hour with them. It was in December. And afterwards they
came over and thanked me and told me how interesting it was and
told me that they felt obligated to tell me that I was in danger of hell
fire. Well, I couldn't think of anything that they would know, so I
asked them on what grounds they based this important decision. And
it was because of the book of Leviticus. I was wearing long pants
because it was eight degrees outdoors. And the book of Leviticus
says that I was an abomination to the Lord.
So I went home and took a look at Leviticus and sure enough,
it's in there. I don't believe that. All of the woman sitting here with
pants on don't believe that, but in the book of Deuteronomy, which is
the next book of the Bible, it says that homosexuality is an
abomination to the Lord.
Now a lot of people have been killed over this. Thank you for
listening to me. I hope you will make us proud. I hope you will do
all you can to protect some vulnerable segments of our society.
(Applause.)
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December 17, 2002
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you, ma'am.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is LaVerne Franklin. She will
be followed by Scott Keller.
MS. FRANKLIN: My name is LaVerne Franklin. I'm the
president of the NAACP of Collier County.
I first would like to say that the person who stood up here and
made a statement that qualified that African Americans were not in
this room and because of that they were not interested in this
ordinance, I would like to set the record straight. I am the president
of the Collier County. We have hundreds and hundreds of members
who have jobs who are -- cannot afford to come here and sit for five
or six hours. So they send people like me to speak for them.
Also I would like to say that we had received a revised
ordinance that eliminated all of the protected classes. I have been
advised by my higher headquarters that that is not acceptable because
it would not give us protection. Also the NAACP has been very
active in trying to get this adopted. We stand by the record that it --
the original and the second draft that included all classes, and that is
our position as of today.
I would like to also state that we're here now hopefully that you
Commissioners will set the record straight and say that equality
reigns all citizens here in Collier County. You have the opportunity
to control this preliminary, just the creation of this ordinance, not to
fine-tune it at this particular point. We want you to create one.
There's an advisory board in a great sense. We need here in Collier
County the central -- a centralized agency where everyone can go to
to talk about race relations, to implement proactive strategies, to have
firsthand information what's happening here in your county. You
need to know what's taking place here in your county.
This commission will dissolve some of the disputes. It will give
the people like the attorney Robinson stated a form. There is no
place here -- no place here in Collier County to do that. You will be
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a facilitator between the state and the federal government. You need
to assist your residents. We don't need to send them anyplace else.
We're taxpayers right here in Collier County and they need to be
provided a service here.
Some people say that we don't have those problems here in
Collier County. That cannot be validated. There is no place here
that keeps records, any kind of records on discrimination here in
Collier County. We need that here in Collier County and this
ordinance would do that. If you don't have any documentation, you
don't have any recordkeeping, how would you ever know. Someone
stated earlier that six, maybe six. We don't know that to be a fact.
Maybe that's the six that got to the state level. What happened here
in Collier County we will never know if we don't have a place here.
Human relations must be established. They need to be nurtured,
they need to be developed. And now is the time. We ask you to
create today the human relations commission.
And somebody stated the Bible. I know I'm taking a little
longer, but forgive me. African Americans were discriminated for
years in the name of the Lord. And what they did to us is they waved
the Bible as they lynched us. They discriminated against us in the
name of Lord and they declared white supremacy. Now people are
still talking about the Bible. I think that's not your role here today is
to talk about the Bible and interpret the Bible. Here you're supposed
to provide a service for all the citizens here in Collier County. And
that's what we're asking you to do.
Because believe it or not, unrest is here. You may not be aware
of it because some of you have been advised and those people who
have been advising you are not minorities. They have not walked
these streets like I have and a lot of minorities who have been
discriminated against. You need to know that the pot is boiling. You
need to know what is actually happening in your communities. And
you as our leaders need to today create a human relations
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commission. You have the power to structure it any way you want
to. We can't tell you how to do that, but we're asking you to create a
human relations commission today.
Thank you very much.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Scott Keller. He will be
followed by Jonathan Bayer.
MR. KELLER: Good evening. My name is Scott Keller.
When I first came here today, I -- what I thought I was coming to
see, I really didn't see what I thought I was coming to see. I really
felt it was a good idea for a forum to be presented. I have --just like
other people here do, I don't agree with the statement of sexual
orientation either, but the idea of a forum was a great idea. I thought
well, heck, I'll just come up here and just say, you know, my piece
about sexual orientation.
But from there on, I'm fully against this as it stands. This
ordinance is not what I was understanding it to be. But to start off
real quick here, my point on the sexual orientation is it's not -- sexual
orientation is not protected under the law. As a matter of fact, as
some people pointed out, it's actually against the law. Certain
orientations -- certain sex acts are against the law.
So, I mean, just with that, this resolution I don't think was
intended to deal with that. I think this resolution was intended for
people who are being discriminated against to be able to speak up
and not -- I feel it's just been hijacked as somebody else said. This
has been -- the idea of what I wanted to see here isn't what it was.
And if-- if you're looking for protection and -- for gay rights, I
don't think this was the place for it. There's places to go to be able to
get that legislation changed. The intention of this was to be able to --
from my initial understanding was to give a forum for people to
speak and be educated and for people to outreach to. That's not it
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from what we've seen here, obviously.
And the logic of it is -- the thing that knocked me out of the
loop was listening to how this is set up. As I said, the parameters,
there are no parameters. We're writing a blank check here. We have
no idea what's going on with this.
On top of that, it is duplication. I -- I -- I spoke to the gentleman
who spoke, Marion, I'm not quite sure of his name, but this -- and I
wanted to speak to him because I felt that this was duplication. I was
wondering well, what do they have and why is it that none of what
we're doing -- thirty years this has already been around, thirty years
at state level. How come this couldn't have been simply adopted to
kind of format theirs and why isn't it. So I asked him, I said is -- is --
is sexual orientation covered in state law. It is not covered there.
They don't -- they don't use it there.
And my idea here is we have something in place. I don't want
to pay for it twice. I believe that something needs to be done here.
There needs to be a better forum, better connection with the state.
Why don't we look at -- I mean, sometimes it might be as simple as
giving, you know, a little office, an employee, a PC and Internet
access for them to be able to be heard by the state at the state level.
And the last thing is when she says we don't have that yet, we
don't know yet, it's yet. That yet scares the living daylights out of
me. I think the yet should have been answered here and it wasn't.
Thank you very much. Have a great day.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: Jonathan Bayer. He will be followed by Gordon
Svoboda.
MR. BAYER: Hello. My name is Jonathan Bayer and I come
from Naples. I just want -- I have heard a lot of stuff said here and
everybody is coming at different angles. I think it was pretty much
said pretty well. And I just want to say that I oppose the idea of a
committee for this based on the fact that it's pretty loose. And I also
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oppose the homosexual agenda connected with it. That's it.
MS. FILSON: Gordon, I will let you pronounce your last name.
MR. SVOBODA: It's a very simple Czech name, Svoboda. It
means freedom, so it's a good one to have.
MS. FILSON: He will be followed by Joel Leenaars.
MR. SVOBODA: And I am up in Frank's area at Vanderbilt. I
thank you all for the opportunity for these eighty people or however
many spoke because our country allows freedom of speech. And I
believe today we're involved in another aspect of freedom, because
discrimination happens. Discrimination is wrong.
I'm an ordained clergyman of the United Church of Christ and I
have dealt with people in discriminating areas all my ministry and
they're not easy to resolve and you have a large responsibility in this
issue today.
I hope that you will take seriously the sexual orientation portion
of this issue. It is a discriminatory issue and discrimination is wrong.
This human rights relations program is needed in our county, in our
state and in our country. We need to grow.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: Joel Leenaars. He will be followed by Nathaniel
Winslow.
MR. LEENAARS: Distinguished lady and gentlemen of the
commission, zealous citizens. My name is Joel Leenaars. I'm a new
resident of Collier County. I'm a gay man and I thank the good
people of Naples and Collier County for their welcome and
acceptance.
I'm here because of the actions of my grandfather when he first
came to the United States, a story he told me repeatedly with tears
streaming down his face. As he stood on the deck of the boat as it
brought him from Europe as an immigrant to the Statue of Liberty, it
never failed to move him, as the thought moves me. The thought of
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freedom and liberty and justice.
And yet that's been denied to a number of our citizens. I really
don't like to share with you my first impressions of Florida, because
they were the opposite of the way I was brought up. When I got off
the train in St. Petersburg, I saw things that to an eight-year-old in
1943 shocked me. I had never seen anything like it. I was used to
seeing where it said restrooms, men and woman. And here it said
men, women and colored. I was used to going to a drinking fountain
and getting a drink. And when I came to Florida, I saw the drinking
fountains labeled white and colored. This had a profound effect on
me. And then as I went on through life and had more experiences, I
saw where black people were shut out of buying in communities and
Chinese and Jewish people were shut out and gay people were
thrown in jail for being gay.
We've come a long way since those days. But it's obvious by
the testament and the petitions of some who spoke that there is work
yet to be done in the area of human relations. To carry out this work
of human relations and make this community a safe place for all
residents, I urge you to support the measure in its entirety as
presented.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Nathaniel Winslow. He will
be followed by Hy Bershad.
MR. WINSLOW: Good evening. I come to you with an
agenda. We have talked about an agenda today and I have an
agenda. It is an agenda of freedom and equality, period. Not just for
certain people, but for all people.
It is hard to recall that during the lifetimes of some of us racial
separation and its bedfellows of hate, oppression and lynchings was
generally accepted or at least not actively opposed in American
society. Statements by governmental bodies and new laws helped to
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change societal attitudes and helped to combat discrimination. It is
difficult to remember that five decades ago Americans generally
accepted women's second-class status with its associated abuse and
severely limited opportunities. But governmental resolutions and
new legal requirements led to improvements in the treatment and
status of woman.
So in ten or twenty years from now, will we look back at today
and observe that you county commissioners had the courage to stand
for equal rights for our fellow human beings with different sexual
orientations? You are challenged to add your voice representing the
people of Collier County in aiding the continuing march of human
freedom and equality.
I urge you not to cringe from the opportunity to do the right
thing. There has been a great deal of bigotry and hate expressed here
today under the guise of religion. Religious people have a right to
their interpretation of the Bible. I happen to disagree with them and
can address -- and can deduce I think rather a different interpretation.
I too have studied the Bible and have a theological seminary
education. There are prohibitions against eating pork. There are
prohibitions against planting seeds of different kinds of plants in the
same hill of earth. There is a prohibition of few versus -- before the
prohibition against homosexuality in Leviticus, there's the prohibition
against having sexual relations with a woman during her menstrual
period. There are some people who hold to all of these rules. There
are some people who hold to none of them.
It seems to me very important to understand that if we are going
to have a common understanding of religion, it ought to be on a basis
of the things that are basically important. And in nowhere in the ten
commandments does it say anything about homosexuality.
Homosexuality can be thought of as wrong and many peoples
have -- many people have said that. But it is not your position, it is
not your rule to establish a particular interpretation of religion. That
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is not the issue. It is protection of all people no matter what they
believe or how they behave.
Thank you very much.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: Hy Bershad. John Gursoy. Following John will
be Helen Slimak.
MR. GURSOY: Good evening, Commissioners. John Gursoy,
for the record. East Naples is where I live. I have been a resident of
the community since ! 976, and I'm opposed to the ordinance based
on the sexual orientation language that's included.
As a follower of Jesus Christ, I love and currently minister to
homosexuals in the business community. As a financial planner for a
national firm, I have gay clients that I treat as equals. As I worked
for the Ameriac (phonetic) corporation as a sales manager, I saw no
discrimination in my early years there, right out of school. And then
as national sales manager for the Ritz Carlton here in Naples, in the
four years that I was there, I saw no discrimination in this area.
I believe that everyone is a child of God and is created equal
and therefore should not be discriminated against.
The federal government already has the parameters in place for
these concerns about discrimination. You do not need to get into this
arena or that runaway train that was mentioned earlier. We don't
need this ordinance because the constitution protects all of the
citizens of Collier County.
And if the ordinance is passed, my concern is it will cost
taxpayers money. You're going to have to create staff positions. Jim
Mudd and Leo over there are going to have to administer these
individuals and you're going to have to deal with this as it grows and
grows and grows.
And there's another concern I have is -- as you know I work
very closely with children in a faith-based organization here in town.
And we try to -- we work with the kids on the premise that we're
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trying to keep them from getting involved with drugs, alcohol, gangs,
crime and sexual immorality. And the reason why those five criteria
are the criteria for our faith-based organization is very simple. Those
are the five areas that repeatedly come up that are destroying the
families and the very fabric of the nuclear family in this county. And
we deal with it on a daily basis.
And so on a selfish reason, for my wife and I, we oppose this
ordinance greatly because of our own two children now that we have
been blessed to have. And we do not want Collier County to force
education about the destructive lifestyle that we have seen in
counseling kids in this county from the homosexual agenda. Because
this is a behavior of choice. It is not something that is outlined by the
constitution as race, color, creed, origin that we have heard
mentioned here. The traditional family needs to stay intact in Collier
County. Trust your founding fathers and what they laid out in the
constitution. Trust the seal behind your backs right now that says in
God we trust, the very logo which is on the side of every police car
here in this town. And Don Hunter is prepared to protect anybody if
they are discriminated against or hate crimes or anything is brought
against them.
So trust your founding fathers, trust the constitution, trust in
God and you will be fine in this situation.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Gursoy.
MR. GURSOY: Yes.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Go ahead, Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And pardon me,
Commissioners. I do have questions about the Gulf Coast Skimmers.
You are a not-for-profit organization? MR. GURSOY: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Are you chartered as a
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religion?
MR. GURSOY: No.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. So it's just the
principles of your teachings are faith-based? MR. GURSOY: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Next speaker.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Helen Playa Slimak. Robert
Statile.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: That leaves us with -- this is number
fifteen; is that correct?
MS. FILSON: Yes.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: The way I read it is if we go through
all of the speakers, we will be finishing up at about quarter after or
twenty after, provided they're all still here. At that point in time, if
you want to go to that, so we can get all of the speakers behind us,
then we can use our deliberation for tomorrow morning.
But go ahead and consider it between now and then and we will
talk about it when we finish the speakers.
MS. FILSON: Following Robert will be Richard Croasdale.
MR. STATILE: For the record, I'm Robert Statile. Love
Naples. Have lived here for twenty-four years. For the record, I am
strongly opposed to this. My so called right winged religious
camaraderies here have said half of what I feel from a religious
standpoint. So I will leave that aside.
I'm a father. I'm a husband. Thirteen-year-old girl. I may be a
late bloomer as a child or severely protected by my mother, but I did
not know what homosexuality was until I was seventeen. My
daughter knew, as far as I knew, at the age of twelve. My daughter's
innocence has been stolen by the demise and morale decay of
society. And I am strongly objected by this.
We do a lot of renaming. I am not a bigot. I am not
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discriminatory of people. What they do in their own home, that's
their business. I don't beat on their doors telling them about Jesus
when they don't want me there. Self esteem has been replaced for
character. Stress has been replaced in our society for poor time
management. Hyperactivity has been replaced for poor parenting.
Let me tell you, I am a hyperactive child, okay. You want to talk to
my mother, she will tell you what hyperactivity is.
Homosexuality to me is a choice and a sin and no medical
doctor will convince me otherwise. The committees, yes, it equals
higher taxes. Your severely over-priced property and higher taxes
has solidified the fact that my family will retire in the state of North
Carolina. I cannot afford to stay here and retire. So that is one
factor.
And the other factor is if this thing passes, I will guarantee that
when my daughter is ready for college, she is pushed over the Florida
state line. I am against this one hundred percent.
And for the lady that mentioned about Dr. Falwell, my wife
worked for him for eight years and he's very politically active and
that's why people attack him. I know him very well in a meeting I
had with him.
Thank you for your time.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: Richard Croasdale. Nicole Townsend,
Tonnessen. She will be followed by Barry Brown.
MS. TONNESSEN: My name is Nicole Tonnessen. I'm the
president of the Gay and Lesbian Business Network in town. Just
some things that people have not said yet. Someone mentioned
earlier we have no control over race, gender, disability or anything
like that. We don't. I was born a white woman, but I would argue on
the other side that their religion is their choice. We see many people
who convert and switch to a different religion, so should we remove
that and not have that a protected class. Just a counter argument on
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that. I don't think we should take anything out. I think we should
leave it in.
And for those who say that my partner that I have been with for
six and a half years, and the daughter that we had together in this
county, choose this lifestyle, I would ask that they stand in my shoes
for maybe an hour or a day, just to get a perspective. I would never
in my right mind choose to love someone of the same sex so that I
can stand in a room or sit back there for five hours and hear people
say I love you, but you're not worthy. I love you, but we're not going
to protect you in case something happens to you. We're not going to
have a human relations commission. And this thing doesn't sound
perfect right now. It's a baby step, it's a starting point.
Let's address some of the issues so that the county as a whole
can get along better. It doesn't have to be enforcement powers,
anything. But we need to hear the diversity. It exists. It's not going
away.
The last thing, just from my own personal story, I have suffered
discrimination. I spent twelve years in the United States Navy. I
was extremely proud to serve my country. It was -- it was an honor.
But to live for twelve years and to think are they going to take this
career away from me because I'm gay. As they gave me award after
award, is that not good enough for me to serve my country? And it
wasn't. Had they known, I would have been out with a dishonorable
discharge, simply because I love who I do.
I don't think that this commission is a threat. I think it is just a
starting point. I think it is a great idea. And for the people who don't
support it, they're the ones that I think it's the best idea, because
through education, we learn tolerance.
And I will close because I have twenty-eight seconds, but there
was a great story on one of the talk shows several years ago. And
there was the KKK and a black couple on the stage going at one
another. They panned to the green room and sitting in the green
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room were two children, a white child and a black child playing with
one another. The hatred starts young. We're not out to recruit. We
don't want your kids. My daughter will be raised in a loving
environment. And if she's gay or straight, I will love her anyway
and I will encourage her to be the best person she can. And I hope
that this commission's created.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: Barry Brown. Margret Rossbach. Gabrielle
Gilmore. Are you Margaret? Following her will be Gabrielle
Gilmore. Go ahead.
MS. ROSSBACH: My name is Margret Rossbach and I live in
Collier County. Registered voter. I'm the mother of a gay son and I
actually believe that there are good people in this county. They just
don't speak to one another and they don't understand. I have given
up trying to convince anybody or make them believe the way I do. I
listened back there and inside of me when some of the folks who are
good Christian Baptists in their own opinion spoke and there was
scream on the inside though.
My son was a doctor in this town. He was a periodontist for ten
years. He's dead. I'm not playing the blame game, but I'm
seventy-two years of age and he came out late and I saw his struggle.
And one of your -- one of your commissioners said that there were
only six complaints, that this county doesn't have much to complain
about. You don't know.
The young black woman said we have no records. You would
be surprised how much I have seen. I will be glad to document if
somebody is interested. I urge you to pass this. I would like to read
this.
I speak to you as one who has witnessed firsthand in Collier
County the kinds of ugly homophobic bias that is possible when
there are no laws to protect people against bigotry of others. Despite
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the rhetoric of the far right, gay people are not covered by state or
federal laws. That's why twelve states and hundreds of counties and
cities have created the necessary protections. The measure you have
before you is controversial solely because of the word sexual
orientation. Why does that scare you so much? Other speakers have
and will attempt to inflame the issue by deliberately confusing the
issue and by proselytizing their religious views about immoral
behaviors. This ordinance is not about protecting people against
discrimination based upon behaviors, but rather based upon their
status as black or white, gay or straight, Christian or atheist. Scare
tactics and biblical quotes have no place in these rooms for
deliberations.
If you pass this legislation as it is proposed, keep in mind that
you are representing the will of the majority of the people. Poll after
poll indicates that eighty percent of the American public support
non-discriminatory discrimination legislation and includes sexual
orientation.
If Collier County defeats this proposed ordinance because of the
word sexual orientation --just a minute -- it will be the first Florida
community to do so in recent history and risks being seen and labeled
as extremist in its political views. Orlando, Sarasota, Tampa, St.
Petersburg, Miami and Fort Lauderdale have all passed similar
legislation in recent months and years.
But if you decide to defeat this legislation, please do so
honestly. Go on the record that Collier County does not support the
protection of the civil rights of people who are gay.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Please wrap it up, ma'am.
MS. ROSSBACH: Let us and the rest of the nation know the
bounders -- boundaries of your tolerance.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I'm going to have to ask you to --
MS. ROSSBACH: Thank you.
(Applause.)
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CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Gabrielle Gilmore. She will
be followed by Bill Thiesen.
MS. GILMORE: Good afternoon. I guess it's getting to be
good evening now. My name is Gabrielle Gilmore. I am res -- a
three-year full-time resident of Pelican Bay in Naples and a -- before
that a twenty-nine-year resident of Lee County.
I am the president of a recently formed Naples chapter of
PFLAG, which stands for Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians
and Gays. We are a -- family based support group for families with
gay members. This group started in 1978 and now has over four
hundred seventy chapters internationally with over eighty-five
thousand families as members and we're growing all of the time.
My husband of forty-one years and I have a
thirty-eight-year-old son who told us when he was nineteen that he
was gay. We got involved with PFLAG to support him and to try to
make society a safer and more accepting place for gay people. We
did not raise our son to sit in the back of the bus. Our son is a
remarkable young man with a circle of friends any one of whom we
would welcome as a next door neighbor. Generally speaking they
are respectable, productive, hard-working, sensitive people. You
don't have to like them personally or their sexual orientation, but you
must respect their basic civil rights. To do otherwise is
unconscionable.
We are seeking equal rights here, not special rights. Gay people
live and work among us and have always done so and will continue
to be among us. Some are known to us to be gay. Others are
closeted too fearful to be themselves lest they be labeled and
discriminated against.
We often hear stories from gay people of not only
discrimination, but of gay bashing. We see here in this room today
people who wish to be free to discriminate, otherwise they would not
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be here in such numbers and would not have deemed it necessary to
take out an opposition ad in the newspaper.
There is so much intolerance, fear and hatred against an entire
segment of society that it should be obvious to you that
discrimination against gays is widespread and that this ordinance
with the word sexual orientation is necessary.
The American Psychological Association and the American
Psychiatric Association have stated that homosexuality is not a
choice and not a disease or condition that can be treated. They stated
it is something a person is born with, much like left-handedness and
that it is impossible to make a straight person gay. As a mother who
raised three children, I attest to those facts. (Applause.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you, ma'am.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Bill Thiesen. He will be
followed by Dale Danford.
MR. THIESEN: Good evening. Mr. Chairman,
Commissioners, my name as Bill Thiesen. I have been a resident of
Collier County for thirteen years plus. I have at times worked with
the board, the commission as part of the Ethics Review Board.
I come here today not to say what is or is not to be included in
the ordinance. Up until I think it was one -- one forty, one forty, no,
closer to one fifty this afternoon I considered myself a literate person.
I am amazed that I have been -- been -- attained the age of sixty-five
and as of now do not understand the meaning of investigate, direct,
dictate, determine.
This ordinance as written, and I'm not talking about the people
who will benefit or not, the ordinance as written gives broad powers,
no matter what we were told by Miss Robinson, very broad powers
though this ordinance. This ordinance probably if it was looked at
completely and thought through would be found to have more power
than the commission of Collier County itself.
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It has the power to investigate. It has police powers. It has the
power to determine the causes, content and direct the schools what to
teach our children. It's all stated in there. Whenever Miss Robinson
was asked about it, she said that's not what it means.
I have to ask the commission to consider why they would
.approve an ordinance that contains so many provisions that have
been stated by the writer to not mean what is said. Take an
ordinance that is clear, take an ordinance that states its purpose, take
an ordinance that at least adheres to the words written in it and then
consider it.
I feel it is an error, I feel it is impractical, and I feel it is wrong
to accept this ordinance as written. We must have something before
the commission in which the word investigate means investigate,
direct means direct. If direct doesn't mean direct, why do they want
the power to promote or to put together educational programs to be
brought to public and private schools and have the power to tell the
schools how to present them to our children?
No, they have come across, past the county commission. They
have gone past the police power of the Sheriff's Department and this
ordinance contains enough power to put the Sheriff's Department, the
County Commission and the schools of Collier County at the
direction of five people from the community and five business
people.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you, sir.
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Dale Danford. He will be
followed by Robert Waegele.
MR. DANFORD: My name is Dale Danford. I'm a resident of
Collier County for fifteen years. And I'm here speaking for the
formation of the human relations commission and the inclusion of
sexual orientation in its scope.
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This request for including all who live in our county under an
equal protection ordinance would seem so modest and common sense
that I wonder how there could be any opposition to it. Yet when I
look at some of the other groups included, especially race, color, sex,
national origin and religion, I'm reminding -- I'm reminded that each
group had to endure long periods of oppression and sometimes
martyrdom to overcome the bigotry that denied them equal
protection under the law. And sadly, religious leaders, armed with
plenty of biblical support, were virtually in the vanguard of this
oppression, which is certainly the case in our discussion today.
Permit me a few examples. Perhaps the most influential leader
in America today predicted on national television that fire and
brimstone would fall on Orlando because Disney, which is
headquartered there, offered to partners of gay and lesbian employees
equal medical benefits. Another influential religious leader who has
been mentioned several times today blamed the events of September
11 th on homosexuals. The same individual has coined the phrase
gay agenda and has in true Joseph McCarthy form equated it to a
communist plot with the added menace of infecting innocent people
with their gayness.
I asked some gay acquaintances about what really was included
in their gay agenda. I was told the only agenda they were aware of
was to get up each weekday morning and go to work, to watch
television or an occasional movie in the evening, to enjoy a
restaurant meal from time to time and go to a place of worship on the
weekend, et cetera.
In other words, while having differences, as do every other
group seeking freedom against discrimination under this ordinance,
the gay/lesbian community are just plain old people trying to lead a
normal life. Everyone deserves to live without the fear of
discrimination. This is not a special right. It is a basic equal right to
everyone and deserved by everyone. Inclusion of sexual orientation
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is the right thing to do.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: Robert Naegele. Gina Braten. Gina will be
followed by Judith Fales.
MS. BRATEN: Good evening. Members of the commission,
Chairman, my name is Gina Marie Braten. I am a three -- or
two-and-a-half-year resident of Collier County, Florida. I'm
originally from Broward County where I spent the first twenty-five
and a half years of my life and lived in Palm Beach County for about
a year before -- after that.
I am also a lawyer. I am also a Christian, a member of San
Marco Catholic Church and a married heterosexual female. And I
believe that sexual orientation should be included.
Originally when I came here I had received a letter from the
ACLU alerting me to this meeting and to this issue and I did send an
e-mail to members of the commission, which were responded to by I
believe two members of the commission.
I -- originally, the only thing I was going to come here and say
was my support for including the phrase sexual orientation in the
ordinance. After listening to a lot of speakers today and after reading
the ordinance thoroughly, I do agree with some of the people that
have said perhaps we need to not scrap this ordinance, but I think it
probably needs to go back to the drawing board. I would think that at
some point it should be brought back before the commission,
however, I think there are some serious ambiguities, as well as
speaking as a lawyer, although not an expert on these issues, I would
think there probably might be some legal concerns.
I do think the spirit of it is very good though and I think we do
need it. I would disagree with anyone who says it is not needed just
because there are existing laws. Not -- laws are not always followed
all of the time. There have been federal protections that have been
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ignored. There are federal laws that were ignored by the then
governor of Alabama, George Wallace, who refused to let African
Americans into state universities even when federal judges told him
he had to.
Discrimination still continues against all members of society.
There was a gentleman earlier who spoke that said this would create
a big legal mess. Now, legal messes have gone on for years. And if
it weren't for some of those legal messes, we wouldn't have had the
Civil Rights Act of 1964 finally enacted. Discrimination of woman
and African Americans and other minorities still continues today.
As far as there being an agenda, I think everybody has an
agenda of some kind. For anyone to say they don't have an agenda
is really silly. We all have agendas. But the real issue is that
discrimination of any kind is wrong. A person's behavior is not the
issue. That's a matter of privacy. I don't care nor do I want to know
what goes on in anyone's bedroom nor do I share my personal
practices whatever they may be with other people. That's not an
issue.
What we're talking about is a member, a person, a member of
this community, a human being who is discriminated against just
because of who they are. Not what they do, but who they are. And
that is inappropriate. And it would be a miscarriage of justice to do
otherwise.
If you choose -- I will finish up quickly -- if you choose to adopt
this ordinance, I would ask that you vote on it with the term sexual
orientation included. If not, if you didn't adopt this ordinance, I
would ask that it not be because of that reason but because there are
some other things that need to be addressed with it.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: The next speaker is Judith Fales. She will be
followed by Raymond Fales.
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MS. FALES: I would like everyone to know that if I'm up here,
we're almost done, because I had one of the last numbers. My name
is Judith Fales. I have lived as a full-time resident in Naples for
about a year and a half. Before then I had the joy of eleven years of
life in the state of Vermont.
Vermont, as many of you may know, struggled with a lot of the
issues that have been discussed today. It was a state that put in it's
state law protection for people based on sexual preference. It was a
state that in recent years passed the civil union law, coming closer
than any other state to acknowledging the right of gay people to have
marriages and to have the protections that marriages bring.
No one can legislate away individual fear and hatred. And I'm
saying hatred, not love. I think the word love here today hit me the
way it would have as a slave owner -- if a slave owner had said to me
I love my slaves. So there is no way for us to legislate away that
kind of feeling.
We can insure, however, that we don't have institutionalized
bigotry in Collier County. And the way to do that I believe is for you
to have the moral and civic courage to pass this ordinance as it's
worded.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Next speaker.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: It's coming, Commissioner Henning.
MS. FILSON: Raymond Fales. And he will be followed by
David Bryant.
MR. FALES: I'm Raymond Fales. I'm a Collier County
resident and I support the -- I support the ordinance and the inclusion
of sexual orientation primarily because I think it's right.
Secondarily, we have an economy here in Southwest Florida
which is driven by tourism and real estate. I don't think we can
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afford to appear as though we discriminate against any class of
people.
Thanks.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: David Bryant. Thomas Maloney. He will be
followed by Hixon Helton.
MR. MALONEY: Good evening, Commissioners. My name is
Thomas Maloney. I have lived in Collier County for twenty-four
years before I moved to Lee County just recently. And I still work in
Collier County and I have sons who live here and work here as well.
I have a petition here that would be opposed to the inclusion of
sexual orientation in this initiative signed by a hundred and some
people that I would like to present to you. I would also like to
suggest to you that the ideas that have been expressed here are
somewhat unreal. For example, when they say all discrimination is
wrong. Well, I mean that's not the real world. We know that we can
discriminate against rapists and thieves and other people who want to
rent from us.
So the only thing is, they're really talking about these categories
that you have established here or that somebody has established.
And the one category that is, of course, the most controversial is
sexual orientation. And that represents the category that refers to
conduct. All of the other categories refer to characteristics that are
innate and immutable. But this conduct, this is conduct. And we
don't have, for example, other areas of conduct such as people who
smoke or drink or people who are motorcyclists or people who
practice law. We don't protect them under this ordinance.
We all of a sudden are trying to say that because these people
engage in a certain activity, that they need to be protected and that
we should protect them. And I think that that's wrong. And I think
it's especially wrong insofar as it will affect our school system.
I know I raised four boys and I certainly would not have
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wanted our school system to be teaching that sexual -- that
homosexuality is an accepted alternative life-style. We have heard
people here today say that it's an inherent thing and yet we know that
the most obvious couple in the last few years that was on television
as the lesbian people, I forget their name, Ellen DeGenerous I think
is one of them, why they broke up six months later and one of the
persons to that coupling has now married a man.
And so we know that there are all kinds of people who have
come out of the homosexual lifestyle. It's not easy. I'm not saying
these people who are homosexuals are just contrarians (sic). They're
not. They have had difficulties. Somehow they have got, you know,
their lives distorted. And it's a shame and I'm sorry for them. But it's
not a reason -- it's not a reason for us as a community to say that they
are to be a protected party.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
MS. FILSON: Mr. Chairman, your final speaker is Hixon
Helton.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Sir, we are glad to see you.
MR. HELTON: I am glad to be here. My name is Hixon
Helton. I have been a resident of Collier County for twenty-three
years. I don't know how I was fortunate enough to be the very last
one. But I too am glad that we are concluding this.
I would like to speak to you from two perspectives this evening,
first as a citizen, as a taxpayer in Collier County. I believe that our
government already protects us in many ways. We are guaranteed
life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That is a guarantee of all
citizens of the United States. And I believe that we need to guarantee
that.
Also as a taxpayer, I am very concerned that we would include
sexual orientation. I believe that to single out one specific group
such as this, we're going down a slippery slope. I think we could
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much better use our taxpayers' money, time and the efforts to better
address some of these issues.
I appreciate the time that the staff and that the commission has
spent deliberating this and I commend you for looking at it. But I
would encourage you to defeat and not vote for the ordinance that's
before you.
Secondly, I would like to speak to you from the perspective of a
minister of the gospel. I pastor a congregation here in Collier
County. I'm very concerned that some of those who spoke in support
of this issue would feel hatred, discrimination, issues that I don't --
that I did not feel, issues that I do not have personally.
As a minister I have very low tolerance level for those who
practice discrimination and those other issues. I can identify with the
gentleman who spoke earlier about being discriminated because he
had red hair. You might not be able to tell it now, but I did have red
hair at one time and it was much thicker than it is right now. I
remember going to parties and being beaten up. I remember having
clothes ripped off of me because I had red hair. And that really
ticked me off, but there was nothing I could do about it because I was
the littlest guy in town. I had to live with it.
Therefore, I do have a low tolerance for those who practice this.
From my perspective as a minister, I don't use the word love loosely,
I mean it. We care about Collier County. And anyone in Collier
County is welcome to worship with the worshipers at the church
where I am the pastor.
If you do that you're not going to agree with some of the things
that I say, but you have the right and we would welcome you with
open arms to worship with us. From the biblical perspective, I must
agree with the Apostle Paul in the first chapter of Romans when he
cautioned civilization, cautioned the church at Rome about those who
forsake what is right and do those things which are wrong. He
cautions those -- and I have got about two seconds and I will be done
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-- as men forsake the natural for the unnatural and woman the same
way. We love you. We do appreciate you. We want to minister to
you, but I must stand with him and ask you to defeat that issue,
specifically the sexual orientation.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: If I may at this time --
MR. MUDD: Mr. Chairman, I have one -- I have one speaker
slip that was turned in sometime after this argument started. And I'm
asking you --
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Of course.
MR. MUDD: -- if you want to hear this particular --
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Of course, of course. Please, bring it
up.
MR. MUDD: Mr. Mark Benson, please. And that is the last
speaker slip anywhere that I can find that has a name on it.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Well, then we're doubly glad to see
you, Mr. Benson.
MR. BENSON: Good evening. My name is Mark Benson and
I thank you for the opportunity to address you this evening and I'm
glad to be the last speaker. I felt we might be here until eight o'clock
tonight or perhaps tomorrow.
I would like to address a couple of the points that have been
brought up today. First about the petitions. This is not a popularity
contest that we're discussing here. This is about discrimination
against anyone. Certainly there's an ability for people to run ads and
take out petitions and we could do that until the cows come home,
but it's not about that. It's about discrimination.
When we talk about whose religion, are we talking about, are
we going to choose religions? No, it's about discrimination again.
The founding fathers of this country sought freedom here in this
country from the persecution of those where they were and their
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religions.
We're not talking about sexual behavior. Sexual behavior in
public is wrong. We're talking about sexual orientation, what
someone is attracted to someone else. And to be told that someone is
attracted to them, they have a choice over that. I ask each one of you
how easily could you change your sexual attractions to your partner
or to someone in your life? It's not an easy thing that you can just
flip around and do. There are people as mentioned who have
changed, probably bisexual in the first place. Those are studies that
you can address.
We have heard about the school system. This is not about the
school system. This is about educating the residents of Collier
County about diversity. We have heard about one percent of the
Collier County residents might be gay or lesbian. I challenge that
percentage. You can find out from national statistics.
We have heard about costs and the taxpayers' dollars. Well,
there are many things of concems to many different taxpayers in this
county and this is a concern to many here.
And lastly, we're talking about equal opportunity and justice for
all. Please include the word sexual orientation.
Thank you.
(Applause.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you, sir.
Final comments, I want to tell you you have done an excellent
job. Every presentation was very good. You were all ladies and
gentlemen and I appreciate that.
What I'm going to do is start with Mr. Halas and go down the
line. I want to explain to you where we are. It's seven minutes past
six.
If you want to commit to finishing this tonight, I'm not going to
rush it. I expect it to be at least an hour, if not longer.
So we will start with you for your thoughts on that and then we
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will go down the line and we will either continue or take a break.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I think there's been an awful lot
that's been presented here since one o'clock this afternoon. And I
feel that in order to really have serious justification on where I'm
going to go in my vote on this, I would like to sit down and go
through all of this and digest it. I feel that's the fair way of doing
this.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, I know I'm tired. I've been
here -- we've all been here, what, ten hours already?
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Actually, yeah, you can take an hour
off for lunch.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Eight, I'm sorry. Okay. And still
I'm tired.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I'm tired, too.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And I want to make sure that I
give this the fairest amount of thought and opinion. But at the same
time, if you guys want to stay on, I'm willing to do that. So I'm
flexible.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Well, I for one think that I would
like to be able to take the time to deliberate -- deliberate on this
tomorrow when everybody is fresh, including staff. A lot of
questions to be asked. I got a whole page full here that's going to
take some time that I want to go over.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah, I have a couple pages
myself.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Coyle.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I say let's go for it. These people
are interested in finding out what we're going to do and they might
not be able to come back tomorrow morning. And I think we ought
to deal with this issue. It's an important issue. I think we should deal
with it before we leave here tonight.
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CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'm sure these residents and
visitors that came to speak today have a lot of other things to do
besides sit in the board of commissioners room for two days.
I just have a few questions. And from my questions, I might be
willing to make a motion. But I think that we owe it to these
citizens here today that took all of their time out. A lot of them have
been here before one o'clock. It's only fair to them.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I got to warn you though, once we --
we proceed forward, I am not going to allow it to be cut short.
Well, at this point in time, I guess, Commissioner Fiala, you felt
both ways on it. How do you feel? I'm for starting it up again
tomorrow moming. You expressed the desire to go either way on it.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, boy.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We're going to make you the
responsible person in the end. You're going to get the blame no
matter what happens.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, I tell you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I hope this isn't discrimination just
because she's the only woman up here.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And it is. No, I'm just as willing to
go on and finish it tonight and while everybody is here. You have
made some good points about them being here. Some people have
traveled in from out of town. But do you know what, I would like to
have like fifteen minutes to clear my head.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We will. We're going to take a short
break.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And I-- and I like the idea of you
not cutting -- none of us cutting anybody short.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Before we go on break, the public
hearing is closed. When we come back we will do our deliberation.
Thank you.
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December 17, 2002
(Break taken at 6:10 p.m. to 6:28 p.m.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Ladies and gentlemen, please be
seated. We want to start. Breakfast will be served in a couple of
hours.
We will start off with Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I have some questions for Miss
Robinson. First of all, I want to thank her and the county manager
staff for going out to the community. Direction from the Board of
Commissioners and also the Board's comments for the creation of
this ordinance.
The question that I have, Miss Robinson, is itts pretty clear to
me the powers that we're setting up for the commission. And if I had
a business of building widgets and my personal beliefs, my religious
beliefs condoned sexual orientation, the way I read this, that I cannot
discriminate against that person because I'm not a religion. I just
have a belief of certain things that are wrong or right. Therefore,
government can take action upon me against discrimination.
MS. ROBINSON: Not under this ordinance. But perhaps --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: It's done in other communities.
MS. ROBINSON: In other communities they have different--
they have -- the Human Relations ordinances in other communities in
the state really run the gambit. The ordinance that's before you today
does not have any enforcement powers, nor does it create a right of
action in a court of law.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, then we're not doing
anything for the gays and lesbians then.
MS. ROBINSON: Well, what you are -- what you're doing is
identifying them as a group that would be able to bring under this
ordinance a complaint before the commission and discuss a matter
before the commission.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And if government is not going
to take action, why are they in here?
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MS. ROBINSON: Well, they would be able to take action in
the sense of it being a bully pulpit. They would be able to take input
from the community as a whole and according to the ordinance,
there's certain things that they would be able to do. One of those
things, however, is not to create a cause of action that could result in
a lawsuit from their actions based upon a complaint that's brought
before them.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay.
MS. ROBINSON: The idea was simply to create a forum pretty
much for the community to discuss the effects of discrimination.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Okay. That isn't how I read it.
And I read some other things in here that the commission, this
commission can provide education for the school system about this
ordinance.
And the way I have seen it in other communities, and it's
nonsense to create, put in sexual orientation without government
action. And if we're doing that, then it's not fair to the minorities in
here because we would have to also take action for discrimination.
And that's what the whole basis of it was, is to recognize
discrimination against minorities.
MS. ROBINSON: Right. And the ordinance does provide for
that.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And it does?
MS. ROBINSON: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And what I remember when we
were deliberating on this when we gave staff direction, I stated that I
didn't want to create more government. We have state and federal
laws for protection of minorities and which I believe, and I believe
that we ought to educate the community of those -- those rights and
actually assist in the education purpose.
And this isn't what I thought it was all about. It's setting up the
stage to go further. But I appreciate the ordinance. I can't vote for
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this ordinance, but I do have some recommendations for our staff to
come back with later on.
So I'm going to make a motion to deny this item and after we
take a vote on it, Commissioners, I hope that I would be allowed to
take a little bit of time for some ideas on the original intent.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I will second the motion.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. So we have a motion by
Commissioner Henning to reject this -- hindsight. We have a motion
by Commissioner Henning for denial. Second by Commissioner
Fiala. And now for the discussion.
Commissioner Fiala, you're first.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, there were -- there were a few
things that bothered me about this as well. I felt that the -- the
original intent to create a forum, we could even have done that
without an ordinance. We could just do that on our own. And I think
the intent was much needed really. And I think we all agreed on that,
to create a forum where people could -- could more or less talk over
their concerns, air their concerns.
The words that I kept hearing, yet, what comes next. These
things make me very nervous because I felt we were just taking one
small step. And I'm afraid that I'm not good at seeing through a
smoke screen. It just -- it makes me very nervous when I just hear
the beginning or the first step of or yet. And so that's one of the
reasons.
I would like to create this forum that has been spoken of. It also
-- I also found it to be of concern if we were only creating the forum,
just locally here for people to come and talk to each other, why did it
bring people out from the rest of the state? What difference does it
make what we do with our forum? And so I thought that also raised
a red flag on that field for me. If it's only -- if it's only the beginning,
if it's yet, this is the first thing yet, that maybe is the reason people
came down from other parts of the state to -- while we create a
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CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Thank you, Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Sorry I talked so long.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: No, you did fine.
Commissioner Coyle will take care of this.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, I'll take up all of the rest of
the time. I have a procedural question, if the board votes in favor of
Commissioner Henning's motion, can we expect that we'll have a
follow-along motion that would propose some resolution of this
issue.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I hope to.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Okay. Then I will save my
questions and comments then until we reach that point. Since this
motion is fairly clear, I don't really care to debate it.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I do have some questions. Mr.
Brown or Mrs. Brown, excuse me, said that this would result in
complaints being dealt with and not lawsuits. I totally lost what that
meant.
In other words, could you explain that, Mrs. Robinson?
MR. MANALICH: Commissioner, if you could explain a little
bit what you mean exactly.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Well, no, that was a comment that
was made. In other words, if we had this ordinance in place, that it
would just result in complaints and not end up in lawsuits. I was
totally lost by that statement. One of the people that was speaking,
and I thought it might have been clear to you. It wasn't clear to me.
MR. MANALICH: I'm not sure taking it out of context what
was meant, but the only thing I can fathom would be that there is a
process here whereby people can lodge complaints with the manager
office that feel that they have been involved, suffered from
discrimination. That is then brought through this forum process for
discussion.
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Lawsuits, there would be nothing that this commission would be
doing in terms of being involved in lawsuits. If a person that brought
a complaint wanted to bring a lawsuit, if they felt they were
discriminated, they would go and hire their own counsel or go
through the appropriate agency, like the EEOC or whatever they
were referred to. Does that touch on --
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I guess so. It was just one of those
things I was listening to and it made absolutely no sense. So I
thought I would throw it back to you and it still makes no sense. So
let's not go there. It's not worth dwelling on that.
I did hear from several people about duplication of effort. I also
heard-- John told me it's an oxymoron of bureaucratic redundancy
with the fact that we already have in place with the state the
mechanism to be able to take positive action rather than have it end
up with a committee that's going to discuss it. And that left me with
some concern.
MR. MANALICH: I mean on that point the only comment I
would make, and if Miss Robinson wants to add anything, that's fine,
but there are existing state and federal agencies. They each have, as
you all know, limited jurisdiction to what each of them will handle.
What we heard through the community input was that in the view of
the proponents of the ordinance that those agencies, those resources
were in some -- in a number of cases ineffective or too far away or
didn't deal with local issues in an effective manner. CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Right.
MR. MANALICH: And that it was thought by the proponents
that having the local forum would help with that.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And the local forum was for
discussion purposes only, they had no enforcement ability, right?
MR. MANALICH: Yeah, I have to emphasize, and I don't think
I'm wrong, Jackie, but education, information, referral. No
enforcement, no remedies.
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CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Then I have heard a number of
people cite ways that they were discriminated against. But the way
they were discriminated against, in many cases, like vandalism that
was done to their personal property, is already addressed by the law.
MR. MANALICH: Certainly they were describing acts that
would be crimes of property destruction. Or if it was a personal
attack, obviously those are also crimes.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: That's exactly right.
MR. MANALICH: Now, there's obviously another category of
crime out there, which is the so-called hate crimes, which factor in if
there are, you know, bigoted, prejudiced criminal acts done, which I
believe have the effect of enhancing criminal sanctions.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And Dwight Holster made the
comment that sexual orientation is not supported by state or federal
laws. What exactly do you intend to do with it if you bring it to the
committee? Where are you going to go with it past that point?
MR. MANALICH: My understanding, again, Jackie, correct
me if I misspeak, but is that sexual orientation is not a protected class
under federal and state laws that currently exist.
What this ordinance and what some jurisdictions have done is to
include it as the basis for a protected class locally. Now, again, this
is not an enforcement ordinance, so there would be no remedy.
However, it would be the basis for having this committee receive
allegations, complaints of discrimination based on sexual orientation
and then engage in the education, information, referral that it's set up
to do for cases involving sexual orientation.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. I have said enough.
Is there anyone else that has any comments?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Just to your comment when you
were just asking this -- this question. And you said it's not a -- it's
not an enforcement or investigative -- I think you said enforcement.
But that's when Jackie said yet. And so that's what makes me think it
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was only step one. Thank you for letting me add that.
MR. MANALICH: I think to clarify that point, what Jackie was
pointing out is that this ordinance has the immediate effect of
creating this commission, if you were to adopt it. It is contemplated
in the language of the ordinance, at page three specifically I would
refer to, that if this commission were created, the commission would
then be expected to come back to you in the future with the so-called
-- sort of a game plan, guidelines, proposed actions that they would
be involved in and take for you to consider and approve or reject.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Coyle.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, I've changed my mind. I
will say something about this. One of the problems I have with the
ordinance as it is currently written is that it is incomplete and it is
confusing.
Based on a national survey of similar ordinances in other states,
there are a large number of exemptions. For example, social clubs
and fraternities are exempted. Religious organizations are exempted.
Non-profit organizations are exempted. Family businesses are
exempted whenever members of the same family are employed.
My problem here is that there is nothing in the ordinance as it
currently stands which tells us who is exempted and who is not. And
I'm talking about from the enforcement standpoint. I do not know
what the standards are for determining whether discrimination has
occurred against people in the gay and lesbian community. I don't
see those enforcement standards anywhere.
Then since we don't have a state and federal law to explain that
to us, we're sort -- we would sort of be flying by the seat of our pants
on that issue.
And I do find it very troubling that despite the fact that there is
no intention of enforcement, there is lots of talk about enforcement in
this -- in this document. And furthermore, it really confounds me
how we can take an organization that's going to meet once a month
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and have that organization efficiently handle complaints.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: It's once a quarter.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I'm sorry, once a quarter.
But I will tell you what I do think is an organization like this can
serve a very, very, useful purpose if we get a little more specific
about what it's going to do. I made the observation yesterday to
some people that I was talking with that I have noticed that it's fairly
easy for people to stereotype others if they don't know them. It's
when you get to know each other that you begin to appreciate the
people who are different from you are really pretty nice people in
most cases.
And the problem is when we isolate ourselves from that and
divide our community into groups, I think we exacerbate that
particular problem. I think what we need to do is find a way to get
together. And I think this kind of thing would be wonderful if we did
it on essentially the same basis we do advisory boards. I mean, that
really is the point. We need somebody who can keep their fingers on
the pulse of our community and let us know what kind of problems
are occurring there so we can make the rules, okay. Right now we
don't have the basis for that. And -- and I guess what I'm getting to is
maybe the second step in our deliberations.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: You're doing very well.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I'm going to let Commissioner
Henning carry that ball because he's already indicated he has some
ideas and I'm not going to preempt him on those.
But it just seems to me that if we get people from a good cross
section of our community together on some organization and they
meet and they talk and they discuss it -- this -- the problems and then
they come to the commission and say, hey, look, you've got some
problems here, you need to do something to deal with them. And
then we implement the solutions, try to at least.
But to take specific complaints and give someone the idea that
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this commission is going to do something about them, I think it's
misleading. What I would like to do is get them into the right
channels, get them to the Human Affairs commission and let them do
their job, the job they're charged with doing. They have the
investigators. They understand the laws. They can begin to do some
things about it.
But rather than belaboring the point, I just wanted to share with
you the fact that I'm concerned about this particular document. I am
not at all concerned about putting together an organization that
represents a cross section of all of our community and trying to work
together and resolve problems.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Very well put, Commissioner Coyle.
Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: What a safe way, because that's
where I was going.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Tom gets first shot at this.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, yeah, he can. I just wanted to
comment. You were talking discrimination and creating an
organization. I think the way it was was somebody said writing a
blank check with no parameters.
And I was thinking, with this forum, if we have listed as it is
now that we're denying protected classes, we forgot all together the
smokers, because they're not allowed in restaurants after February.
And that's -- do they have a place to go? I mean, they're going to be
discriminated against.
And what about the people that are heavy? I mean, and they
want to go -- they want to get a job and there's a svelte young chick
next to you, you can guarantee I'm not going to get the job when
svelte young chick is next to me. Do I have a place to go? Will that
forum take care of me?
By naming just certain protected classes, I'm not protected.
What about the person who has a lot of body odor? And on and on
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and on. We don't have to go into that.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: It's okay to discriminate against
them.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I don't want to sit next to Donna
anymore.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I think that -- I think that we -- if
by just naming certain protected classes, we have left out a whole
array of others.
So if we want this forum to be open to anybody who feels
they're discriminated against, we ought to leave it open to them. So
that's my comment.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Very good.
Well, we still have a motion on the floor. Is there any other
discussion on the motion?
Commissioner Halas.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Well, to start off, I am strictly
against any type of discrimination on any person in this country.
What I have done is I have asked the county staff to relate to me
how many cases we are presently -- that we presently have in Collier
County. And I guess from my engineering background and I'm
looking at we got about two hundred and eighty thousand people I
guess in Collier County here. And, of course, you want to have zero
percent of any type of problem that may occur. And we look at what
Collier County has here in the Second DCA District, we have had
about three cases in Collier County that date back to 2001.
I'm wondering if we're not carrying this a little too far and that
maybe we can find out what avenues are really open and find out
exactly what is going on in the community here.
The other thing is that the human relations commission states
that there's only been about nine cases pending in the state human
relations committee, commission.
I guess where I'm coming from is when I first started on this
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road, it sounded like we had a very, very, serious problem. And I'm
wondering if just through education of the people here in Collier
County that maybe we can address this point zero zero one percent of
the problem. And that's all I've got to say on that.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And with that, if there's no other
comments, I'm going to call the question.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, if I could, just one point. And
this is semantics a little bit. You said denial. There's no
recommendation on the table from the staff. It was for the board to
consider this ordinance.
So if we're going to equate denial to disapproval, I would like --
I would like that to be said so that it -- the staff didn't make a
recommendation. It was just to consider the ordinance.
MR. MANALICH: Mr. Mudd raises a good point for
clarification. As I understand the motion is simply to not approve the
ordinance that has been submitted as part of this agenda item.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Is that correct?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Correct.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Is that correct with the second?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. Any other comments or
questions?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Hearing none, all those in favor
indicate by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And the ayes have it.
Now, Commissioner Henning.
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COMMISSIONER HENNING: Thank you.
Commissioner Fiala, I think what you're trying to say is we need
to understand a lot of people in the community, because we are a
diverse community. If we really want to do that, it's the character of
the community counsel that we should support and fund. And it's an
educational tool that the school uses now, not to discriminate and
recognize other people's rights and their beliefs and so on and so
forth. It's a great program, but that wasn't where I was going.
I think this issue came out of the NAACP because there are
some issues in the county that can be addressed a little bit better.
But, again, the character of the community counsel will address that,
too.
But my idea is to condense the Black Advisory Board and the
Hispanic Advisory Board. And actually what we should do is also in
that condensing would be the Affordable Housing Commission and
bring on some business people on how to employ and house the
minorities here in Collier County.
And also we need to, and I think it's good for the character of
the community, to educate the community on not to discriminate
against race, creed or color.
So my proposal is creation of a community relations information
and referral service with the guidance from the minorities in Collier
County. A new advisory board. This would be -- probably create a
-- a half a person or one person to assist the minorities in creating
literature and creating a venue for-- I mean, we have representation
from the State of Florida and the federal government right in this
building. We have state representatives that can be an office for any
discrimination action that is set forth under the state statutes. We
also have a congressman's office here that can be a vehicle for
complaints or any -- under any federal law.
But I think that we can educate the community much better, you
know, in developing a database to existing laws and agencies to
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provide residents protections, acts against discrimination, provide a
comprehensive brochure of existing state and federal laws.
American Disabilities Acts is one. The Civil Rights Act. And it just
goes on and on. Create a user friendly Web site that was
recommended as a link to offer extensive and comprehensive
information and referrals. This site should include the expansion of
existing laws and agencies.
But we need to provide every venue that we can for complaints
on discriminations here in Collier County. We need the education
process of like I said of the public and our guests that will not
tolerate discriminations of minorities based on what I have stated.
I mean, I could go on and on, but I think it's a basis for the
minorities in Collier County to come back to the commission and
find out what needs the -- what do we need to do to create and to
educate the community.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yes, I think that's a great idea. I
definitely want to create this vehicle, this forum. Even the people
that were suggested in our package. Like you say, they're business
people and then there are representatives from each one of the
minority -- by the way, did you know you guys are the minority?
You figure half of the world is female and we're supposed to be
minorities and part of the other half remaining are Black and some
are Hispanic and some are Oriental. It only leaves the white male as
the minority. So you can be represented on there, too.
Anyway, let me go on with this. I wanted to say I loved your
idea about information or education. And I also was thinking that,
yes, we should have some kind of pamphlets. I didn't even know
until Marlo Valey (phonetic) got up that there was anything like that
in Collier County.
And we need to have something like this published that there's a
place to call. And then this forum should be published in this thing,
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along with something on our public service or rather our government
channel that regularly lets people know where they can go if they
feel they have been discriminated against as well as public service
announcements. They can make these brochures up and they can
place them in the libraries and in Publix. I think it's important to put
that out. And there was something else that I wanted to tell you
while I was at this thing with the educational tool. Oh, Donna, I have
forgotten already.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We can come back to you.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, no, LaVerne Franklin said --
got it. LaVerne Franklin said something about we also need a place
to keep records and document incidents. So I think that ought to be
included in -- in this forum composition. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I only got one, Commissioner -- one
question, Commissioner Henning. I think we got some pretty good
ideas and I'm sure Commissioner Coyle will help to round it off.
But let's not ignore what we're going to do about sexual
orientation. We have been sometimes sending staff out with
incomplete directions. And we get back what we send out. In other
words, what we sow we reap at the end. So if you want to address
this in a form of a motion.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, it would be for the
existing state and federal laws to educate the community and to
assist.
My motion is to condense the Hispanic Advisory Board, the
Black Advisory Board, the Housing -- Affordable Housing Advisory
Commission, creating a new awareness program, community
relations information and referral service.
And, again, we need to bring in the business community for the
high wage jobs for the minorities here in Collier County.
And this -- and, Commissioners, we do need to fund this with
staffing. We do need to fund it with money for such educational
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tools to take it out to businesses and the general public here in Collier
County.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Coyle, I'm still
waiting for a second from Commissioner Henning's motion.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Well, I will second it for
discussion purposes, although I do have some questions and perhaps
some concerns.
One of my concerns would be the composition of this new
advisory board. Although I sense a great deal of reluctance on the
part of the commission to guarantee rights and provide some
enforcement process for the gay and lesbian community, I would
hope we would not exclude their membership on this commission, on
this advisory board. I would hope that there would be at least some
representation from all segments of our community, because it's only
that way that we're really going to get an idea of what kinds of
problems we have and how we can go about solving them.
The only other concern I would have would be that the work
force housing committee combined with this one might get large and
unwieldy. It -- I might ask you to consider the possibility of having a
representative from that committee on this particular committee, but
that's a judgment that has to be made I think by all of the commission
members. I just think if you get a committee that's too large, it
becomes unwieldy and you don't get many good decisions out of
them.
But other than that I think you're definitely on the right track. I
think it's something that will not duplicate what's already here but
will actually supplement the current federal and state capabilities and
it will not create another level of bureaucracy. It actually will make
things more efficient. So I think that your suggestion is a good one.
And my second stands.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: But I didn't hear it amended in any
way from the first.
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December 17, 2002
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Oh, to just have representation
from the Affordable Housing Advisory Board? CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And just deal with the issue of
education to the community and discrimination? COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And I'm okay with that.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Do you want to go next?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah, just for the sake of
discussion, I kind of hate to see the Hispanic Advisory Board
dismantled because they seem to address a separate wave of issues
and the same with the Black Affairs Advisory Board, they seem to
have their-- I would like to see representation from them. And I
agree with you with the gay and lesbian organization, I believe every
organization should be represented. But I think this would be --
should be totally focused on discrimination and not get into the other
things that the Hispanic Advisory and the Black Affairs get into.
I would like to see a separate commission, a separate forum
created all together. I know much to -- with more staff and
everything, but I would like to see that.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Yeah, I'm going to take a turn now.
I agree. You're on the right track, Commissioner Henning, but I
think we're not headed in the right direction if we're talking about
disbanding the two existing boards. I tell you what, I'd like to go to
Ramiro for just a moment. He's been very active in the Hispanic
Board.
And wasn't an attempt made sometime ago for combining the
two boards at one point? I can recall something vaguely in the
distant past.
MR. MANALICH: Historically I have been the liaison since its
inception in '91. And at one time there was discussion about that.
Now, at that time, and I believe my sense of the pulse of the Hispanic
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Board at least is that they have and continue to oppose being
disbanded, even in light of the creation of another entity like this.
But, again, I have not -- I don't think they have voted on that recently
either. They had opposed that officially previously. I have heard
discussion to that effect, but they have not been asked to take that
official position on that by vote recently. My sense is they would
oppose it.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: That's the reason why I would -- I
would have objections to this. Also, we're only identifying two
different groups, Blacks and Hispanics. And I'm sure there's a lot in
between there, too. I would say probably the layout as they presently
got it probably isn't too far off. But the idea of having someone, a
representative from these boards, and that as one of the members, I
think is an excellent idea.
Commissioner Henning and then we will go to Commissioner
Halas and then Commissioner Coyle when he gets back.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, I appreciate the
discussion, but my thought is to bring people together and not divide.
There are the NAACPs, they have an organization and then the
Hispanic community has the Republican Hispanic Executive
Committee, Hispanic Business Organization, and it just goes on and
on.
I want to bring people together and they can and do separate
themselves for their own beliefs through their own organization.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Wouldn't that do that -- I'm sorry, I
have to go out of turn here. Wouldn't that do it with representatives
from each one or do you feel by abandoning -- or by -- by grouping,
now they would only have a couple of representatives rather than
their own committee. Wouldn't you be actually dismantling what
they already use for their own communities?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, again, they have not
through government but they have through their own organization,
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recognizing like the NAACP. That's what I'm saying. And I don't
want to create another advisory board.
How many advisory boards do they have, Sue?
MS. FILSON: I have over fifty. And can I ask one question to
get a clarification? When you said condense the Hispanic Affairs,
the Black Affairs and the Affordable Housing, and then when
Commissioner Coyle spoke, he talked about work force housing.
Now, those are two separate boards.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I meant to say whatever he was
saying.
MS. FILSON: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And it seems like there is
reluctancy to dismantle the Affordable Housing. So I guess we're
just back to those two.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: But you would want a
representative on there from that -- one of the committees. Is that
what you were saying or no? I don't -- I don't care. I don't have an
opinion. Just asking.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Is it my mm?
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: No, it's Commissioner Halas'. He's
been waiting very patiently.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Miss Robinson, I would like to
direct this question to you. Since you have worked so diligently on
this amendment or this ordinance, what is your feeling as far as the
amount of discrimination that is in Collier County? Can you -- can
you kind of bring me up, enlighten me? How many cases that you
personally know of in Collier County as far as discrimination? Of
any kind of discrimination, excuse me.
MS. ROBINSON: That was definitely not one of my tasks. I
was asked to write an ordinance and I was not asked to investigate
claims of discrimination as they exist in Collier County.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Okay. Because I would think that
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when you come forth with an ordinance, that it was based on the
background and a lot of research that you did in this line. And also
have you had any contact with this Mario Valey in regards to any
particular items that may have come up to whereby you could direct
that to him or that you found that the ball was dropped, that it didn't
get up to where it should be directed to at a state level?
MR. MANALICH: Commissioner, if I might, before she starts
on that question, if I can just comment on the previous one, which is
in regard to the amount of discrimination, I mean, we have, in
conjunction with the County Manager's Office, per prior board
direction went into the community to get feedback about the
situation. What we were presented with is that the proponents of the
ordinance felt that the number of incidents of discrimination far
exceed the recorded case filings that have occurred. In part because
the system is not easily accessible, ineffective, the long distance. So
that's what was represented to us.
The research that my office did in addition to that was to check
on the actual filings with different agencies. And those as you
indicated, Commissioner, were not many compared to the population.
However, it was very strongly conveyed to us us by the community
that gave feedback on this that there are tensions, there are problems,
there are issues that are as one person put it still boiling out there.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Has anybody had any contact with
this Mario Valey in regards to directing any particular issues as far as
it pertains to discrimination of any kind or any form? Has -- is there
an easy path to direct this to the state level because the state has the
laws, the federal government has the laws. And what I'm trying to
get at here is maybe we only need one person or two people so that
people, if they do have problems, have an avenue whereby they can
direct this to.
MR. MANALICH: I think that part of what was contemplated
in the -- as we said, the ordinance emphasizes education, information
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and referral. Part of what was contemplated was some mechanism,
whether it's through that document which you have now not found
appropriate or through whatever else we set up to educate and better
facilitate referrals to be acted upon by the existing agencies.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: What I don't feel comfortable with
is investigative and all of these other insinuations. And it sounds as
though when this ordinance was constructed that there was more
involved in the underlying -- in the community in regards to the
tensions or whatever was taking place. And, therefore, I guess I'm
trying to get to the source here that we only have like six
discrimination cases that have been filed in the last -- since 2001 or
2000, whatever. I got so much paperwork here, I'm trying to keep
track of everything. And I'm trying to justify why we need as a
county to get involved to a point where it's going to be another layer
of government. If we have a very serious problem, then we need to
address this. But if the problem is not of this serious nature, then we
need to address this to the state level and we need to come up with
the avenue that is readily and easily accessible for the people here in
Collier County.
MR. MANALICH: And the only way I can answer that is that
the prior board, the prior county manager as well as city officials at
the time of the Harris incident felt that there were discrimination
issues alleged, perceived or actual that were very significant, as well
as general human relations minority group governmental relation
issues there that were a great source of tension in the community and
that there was a need to go forth to get the community input and
come back with some proposal to deal with these issues in a
constructive, preventive type manner.
I don't know, Mr. Ochs, if you want to add anything to what I
have described. Is that more or less accurate?
MR. OCHS: Yeah, I would say that's generally accurate.
Really I think this topic, discussions on two -- two tracks, somewhat
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parallel. One was proactive, preventive in nature, providing a forum
for community awareness, outreach, education and referral. The
other track that has seemed to develop of a parallel nature is kind of
the reactive, individual discrimination complaints and how those get
disposed of and referred out. And I think all along throughout the
day Miss Robinson has tried to indicate that the intent of the
ordinance, which you now have set -- decided not to move forward
on, was really more geared towards public education, community
awareness, creating a forum, that it didn't create a forum for
individuals to file lawsuits or file discrimination claims to be
adjudicated or investigated by that human relations commission.
So what I'm hearing the commission say is they want to
continue on that proactive approach, create a forum to bring people
together and for individual discrimination complaints, simply act as a
referral agency at best to the federal and state agencies that are
already established to handle those kinds of individual discrimination
complaints. Is that accurate?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: That's correct, because as
Commissioner Coyle stated earlier, when we get into basically
classes of people, we're not addressing everybody as such. And I'm
concerned that we're breaking this down too fine.
MR. MANALICH: One other comment that I would offer and
that is that the reason that those particular categories were included
in the ordinance, and obviously reasonable minds can differ on some
things, but the reason that those categories appear is that is based on
our research and the input received from the responding community.
Those are the categories that historically have endured the
discrimination and the problems and that's why those particular
categories were particularly identified.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I would just as soon see an
ordinance written that took out the sexual orientation and say zero
tolerance to any type of discrimination.
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CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. We're going to go to
Commissioner Coyle.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Thank you. I think what
Commissioner Henning is proposing is a good solution. It is not
creating an additional layer of government. It's not creating I don't
think an additional obligation for staff, because he's really taking two
organizations, slightly expanding them and creating one. So I think
that -- that will -- that makes a lot of sense. And if the board wishes
to go that way, I would also add that -- that I think if you create this
commission, it would be foolish to --
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Advisory board.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: -- the advisory board, it would be
foolish to maintain the other two advisory boards conflict, because
you're just asking for conflict. And I can speak from experience.
When I was trying to help the Hispanic community with vocational
training and language training, the Board of the Hispanic Affairs --
the advisory board said, hey, you know, you're not supposed to be
doing that, that's our job.
And so I think if you want to keep those other boards, you're
just asking for conflict. And what I think you need to do is get
proper representation on this new human affairs board and -- and --
or advisory board and make sure we, excuse me, have a proper
representation from throughout the community. If we get the good
cross section of people, we're going to find out what the problems
are. And I will be the first to admit and venture the opinion that I
don't think anybody sitting up here has the slightest idea what those
problems are. And I don't think we're going to find out until we get
people out there who are working together in an advisory board to
come together and say, hey, Board of County Commissioners, here
are some difficulties.
And that's the way things get solved. Because what happens is
that the people through the advisory board come to with us problems,
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we recognize the problems, we try to solve them ourselves. If we
can't solve them ourselves, we walk across the hall and talk with our
state representative or senator. And that's the way you get these
kinds of things done.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Don't we have that now?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: What you don't have is the input.
You don't have this kind of broad cross section representation on an
advisory board who is charged with more than just education, okay.
Charged with collecting information and advising us on what we
need to do to -- to eliminate discrimination in Collier County.
And that's the part that's missing right now. The only way
people can come and advise us is to make an appointment, come in
our office and sit down and talk with us or come here in public input
and make some comments. I'd like to see the data. I'd like to see
somebody who can pull that stuff together and reach some
conclusions and come to -- come to us with some recommendations
and then essentially require that we make some progress in resolving
it.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: If I may I'm going to take my turn. I
really -- we do need an advisory board and for all of the same reasons
that you mentioned. But I can't vote for the motion because the idea
of combining the Black Advisory Board and the Hispanic Advisory
Board just doesn't make sense. These advisory boards have directed
their attention to the needs of their own ethnic community. To take
away this interaction between the respective communities and the
county -- county government, which these organizations have done,
they have handled a lot more than just race relations. They have
handled all sorts of issues that are very important to their own
community.
And that's the reason why I think that possibly you might want
to form this and have members come in. And if we find that this
meets the need, abolish these boards at some future day, if we can
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find out that this particular advisory board we're talking about now
will meet all of the needs that we need to do. Let's get them up and
running and see what happens and then take the other ones apart.
But I can assure there's going to be people in the Hispanic
community and the Black community that are going to raise some
serious objections to this.
Commissioner Fiala.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Yeah, I'm just totally against
another layer of government. We have too many layers as it is, by
the way. And I really don't see the need for an ordinance. But I
wonder how does the NAACP feel about eliminating the Black
Affairs Advisory Board. I don't have anybody here from the
Hispanic, other than Ramiro, and he said, you know, he really
wouldn't want to speak for them.
MR. MANALICH: I mean, the only thing I can say --
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I don't mind dismantling them --
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: You're not going to get to.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: -- if a couple less committees -- go
ahead.
MR. MANALICH: Yeah, I mean, the only thing I can say is
that historically and to the best extent that I can gauge the pulse of
them, I believe they are opposed. But, again, I don't believe this
question has been put to them formally with the specifics of Mr.
Henning's motion for them to consider. But the best that I can gauge
their attitude is they would be opposed.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, Mr. Henning, I mean
Commissioner Henning put up -- made a very good point in that we
already have an NAACP, we already have Hispanic groups like the
LABPA that work within the Hispanic community and maybe there's
no need for it. I just wanted to get some input from those that are
affected because this -- this -- this committee that we're going to be
creating is going to be totally dedicated just to discrimination. It's
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not going to be handling other -- other areas of concern within those
communities. And I wanted to make sure if I vote for this that -- that
they still have other -- other ways to get -- to have other concerns of
theirs met.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I'm going to pull my motion.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And the reason for -- it
probably was out of line. We need to go to the minority advisory
boards and state the intent of the Board of Commissioners and get
their feelings.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Good idea.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I think that's a great idea.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And then hopefully we can
come back and do some education.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: What do you think?
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I'm not going to have three boards.
I'm not going to vote for three boards dealing with minority affairs.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I agree.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: It's just going to create conflict.
It's going to make people angry. We're going to have arguments.
And if people are serious about getting together and working
together, then I don't see any reason why whites, Hispanics and
African Americans can't get together in a single board and work out
problems. That is the way we solve these problems. That's the way
we develop mutual respect for each other. And if we are going to
continue to segment our communities in little blocks and say each
one of them has to have their separate channel of communication,
then we've got a long way to go. We've got about thirty or forty
more advisory boards we've got to create.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Smokers advisory.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Yeah, each one of those -- each
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one of those takes -- takes time and effort from the staff. And I will
ask you one final question and that is when is the last time that any of
those advisory boards came in here and said we've got a problem
with discrimination and here's our recommended solution? Have you
heard that from those people?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No, as a matter of fact.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: But that's what we would get from
this organization if we had formed it. This advisory board would be
telling us things like that. And I can't think of anybody who can
represent the Black community better than NAACP. And I do know
there are a number of really good Hispanic organizations in the
county. And they put on events for the Hispanic population. They
do a really good job.
So I don't think we're disenfranchising anybody. I think -- I
think what we're doing is bringing people together to reach common
solutions to a difficult problem in Collier County.
But Commissioner Henning has withdrawn his motion so I don't
know why I'm belaboring this.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Well, I like -- if I understood
Commissioner Henning right, and correct me, he first would just go
ask them if they -- if they would agree to dismantling those
government committees and form this one instead. That way we
would have one instead of two. I think that's a better idea. Less
government. We're all concerned with that.
Is that what you under -- you had said, Commissioner Henning?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Is the staff liaison for the
committees is to go to them and tell them the intent of the Board and
we would like their input.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: There you go.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Okay.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: That's very polite.
Okay. Let's go to Commissioner Halas. He's sitting very
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quietly over there.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I'm kind of lost here. We're
talking about advisory boards. We're talking about -- but I think
what the real issue here is discrimination. And when you're talking
in an advisory board, isn't this where we're dealing with just -- just
problems with that little community? And the whole -- the whole
thing is, the big picture here where everybody is in this community
together and we're -- we're looking at this ordinance saying that
there's a problem with discrimination and we have to look at this as
not just the Black community, the Latinos. This is -- involves
everyone. And what we're trying to do is come up with an ordinance
that covers all aspects, whether it's sexual orientation or whether
we're just going to say zero tolerance on any type of discrimination I
think is where we want to go with this thing.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I heard you and I'm going to make a
suggestion.
MR. MUDD: Mr. Chairman, if I can help just a little bit while
you're in the middle of discussion.
I've heard-- I've heard a couple of things, one of which, the
ordinance today was disapproved. We can -- we can draft a
resolution, okay, to let -- to make sure that the public understands
that this -- this Board doesn't -- doesn't accept, tolerate discrimination
in any -- in any sense whatever. We can draft that as staff and get
that to the next board meeting or whatever. We can also start
drafting a-- a community relations advisory board and scope of work
that can take discrimination cases that come before that advisory
board and get them the proper agency to refer it to with the
information that's provided.
And then we can get staff to go out to the two boards, the
Hispanic Advisory Board and the Black Advisory Board and talk to
them about the scope of the Human Relations Advisory Board that
we have drafted up and get their ideas as far as what they need to put
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December 17, 2002
into that and then also ask them if they would be willing to dissolve
their organization to be represented on that particular board.
We can do all of those things over the next month or so and get
that information back to you with some drafts on resolutions and also
a straw man to the Community Relations Advisory Board.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: And, Mr. Mudd, you just took the
words right out of my mouth. That's exactly what I was going to say.
And I would like to make that in the form of a motion.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: I will second that.
MR. MANALICH: Just for clarification, Mr. Chairman, Mr.
Henning, I believe you had -- do I understand correctly you had
withdrawn your previous motion?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Yeah.
MR. MANALICH: All right.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. So we have a motion from
myself, Commissioner Coletta, and a second from Commissioner
Fiala.
We will go to Commissioner Coyle first.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: I am concerned about creating this
particular board. I'm concerned with dealing with the issues that we
have had before us all day. Now, what position are we going to be in
if we postpone this decision and let two advisory boards tell us what
we are to do? Well, yes, that's exactly what's going to happen,
because if-- if the two advisory boards say, no, we don't want to do
that, you have got one vote right here that's going to go away. I don't
know how many others are going to go away, but I'm not going to
have three boards essentially doing the same kind of thing and
creating arguments and conflicts. And I'm very, very concerned that
that's going to happen. And I think this Board is far more important.
I think its responsibilities are broader and it can do anything that
those other two boards can do, and it can do them well.
And -- and that's why I think we should -- we should have the
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December 17, 2002
courage to stand up and make a decision about creating this board
and getting a good cross section of representation on it and getting
them to help us define the -- the extent of discrimination in Collier
County and to help us find solutions for it.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I think we're in agreement on
everything except the dissolving right now. Usually when you get
something like this, a new concept, you put it back out there in the
public domain and it comes back to you for public input. You just
don't pass an ordinance without public input.
And that's what we're trying to do here now. That's why we
should be directing staff to be bringing it back to us in a form, an
advertised meeting where we can have the public here to give us the
input. And these advisory boards, you owe it to them. They have
donated their time. They have put their effort into it for years. If
they're going to be disbanded, at least we got to hear back from them
and see what they say. If they're opposed to it, they're opposed to it.
Might still go ahead with the whole thing, but it's just a courtesy.
Myself, that's what I feel.
Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Well, if we dissolve the
advisory board, we have to take action on it. We can't take action on
that tonight. It has to come back.
But, Commissioner Coyle, we don't know what we have been
told today. We don't know how wide the discrimination is in Collier
County.
And I think through education of where you can go to lodge a
complaint is just an allegation. And even at that it's just an
allegation, but at least we know by letting the community know
where they can go to for that complaint is how much of a problem we
have in Collier County.
But I think that we need to give Mr. Mudd some distinct
conversations for the advisory boards where the commission is
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December 17, 2002
going. Or do you have that?
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: We just -- we just framed the
language. I can't repeat it word for word, but possibly you might be
able read it back to us? No, you can't.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Mr. Coletta, there is a question
to the county manager.
MR. MUDD: Commissioner, I know for -- because this
information was relayed to me that when -- when the idea of a
community relations commission was addressed, that the Black
Advisory Board said that they would be willing to dissolve in order
for that to transpire. However, the Hispanic Advisory Board was not
willing to do that. And when that happened, the Black Advisory
Board backed off. So those discussions did transpire. And that's --
and that was when it was going to be a -- a community relations
commission in that process and the discussions that they had in
crafting that ordinance.
That's the part that I know. We can go back to those boards.
Those boards are established by ordinance.
Ramiro, help me if I'm wrong.
MR. MANALICH: Correct.
MR. MUDD: Okay. And in order to -- in order to disband
those particular advisory boards, you have to repeal those ordinances.
They have to be heard and they have to come back to the Board.
And so we can ask those boards. At the same time we can start
crafting -- crafting an ordinance.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Resolution?
MR. MUDD: Well, the resolution first to talk about
anti-discrimination, okay, that it's not an accepted practice. That part
I think-- I think I have heard enough today by the Board members
that that should be forthcoming.
It's -- it's the Community Relations Advisory Board that's of the
issue now. And once we have the input from those two boards, we
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December 17, 2002
can come back to the Board and let them know what it is before we
do any more work as far as staff time is concerned for a community
relations advisory board.
I can also take a staff person and start working up the
information as far as what the state laws are, what hotlines are that
people can contact in the interim and we can work that up, too.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: And I think it's a consensus on
the Board, Mr. Mudd, that we want to staff this for reaching out to
the community for the education purposes. And, you know, that's
going to take some money to do that.
But if the advisory boards are not willing to collapse into this
new advisory committee, then I think that it would be fair to know
what their work product, what they want to gain, what's their goals
over the next year. What do they want to accomplish over the next
year.
But the correspondence that I have seen from the advisory
boards, a lot of it was based around this discrimination.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Absolutely.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: I like that. Force them into action.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Perfect.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Halas, I apologize.
Being at the end, you always get ignored. I tell you what, when
there's a changing of the guard at the next meeting, I'm going to take
your seat and you get to move up front.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Well, that's okay. I'm just the new
kid on the block here.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: That's okay. Go ahead,
Commissioner Halas. And I apologize for your wait.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I almost forgot what I was going
to say. I would like to see where we designate or delegate somebody
to be part of the human rights commission that basically anything
that comes in as far as a discrimination suit or a possible
Page 266
December 17, 2002
discrimination case, that this is then directed to the Florida
Commission of Human Rights.
Basically, what we would do is, if there is a real problem, then
all we need to do is just have one person, maybe an extra staff
member, if that, but just one person that people can go to with the
problem and direct this up to where it belongs. And I think it's the
state or federal government.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Well, that's an excellent idea, too.
We do have a motion on the floor and a second for what we
already stated, to instruct Mr. Mudd to go forward with what to
bring back to us. It's another alternative. Not too sure how we can
ever work that in. They're two opposing things at this point in time as
far as a single member and an advisory committee. All worthy of
consideration.
However, we do have a motion on the floor. I think possibly
we're ready to call for that motion to see if we have a consensus.
MR. MANALICH: Mr. Chairman, just because there has been a
lot of discussion since the motion, as I understand the motion, it's
basically to go forth in the manner suggested by the county manager,
which is to address all of these things, the draft resolution against
discrimination, the -- considering the drafting of a community
relations or human relations advisory board, seeking input from the
two existing boards, the Hispanic Board and the Black Affairs Board
about their possible dissolution based on the creation of this other
advisory board, creating also a mechanism for the county manager
for referrals to existing agencies. I think I have captured --
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Not quite, you're missing one thing.
MR. MANALICH: All right.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Henning came up
with an excellent idea that we have these advisory boards, if they
want to continue, to report back to us exactly what their plans are for
the coming year. And I thought that was an excellent idea. And I
Page 267
December 17, 2002
don't know if I worded it quite correctly, but was that what you said?
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Close enough.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: This isn't going to lead us to
another session like this?
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Well, let's cut to the chase. We
got to figure out something simpler than this.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: No, we have to make sure we take
everybody's rights into consideration.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I think we're going to take
everybody's rights into consideration.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: We have a motion on the floor and
a second.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. Is there any other comments?
Let's give this a try.
All those in favor, indicate by saying aye.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Opposed?
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. Commissioner Halas was
opposed. Okay. Fine.
Then I believe that takes care of the business before us here
tonight. It was absolutely fun.
Item # 15
STAFF AND COMMISSION GF, NERAIJ COMMI JNICATIONS
Page 268
December 17, 2002
Let's go to Mr. Mudd first for a closing comment and then we're
going to go down the line and everybody --
MR. MUDD: That brings us to staff-- staff and commission or
general communications, item number 15.
Commissioner, I received a letter from the Department of
Environmental Protection, in particular the Rookery Bay National
Estuary and Research Reserve folks, that they would like to have a
workshop with the Board of County Commissioners and the City of
Naples and the City of Marco Island and the City of Everglades
councilmen and counsel woman on the 8th of May for half a day to
discuss the state of the coast.
I have tentatively blocked your calendars for that morning and I
want to make sure that that -- because it would be an off site -- it's
kind of a joint off site with all of those organizations. So the Florida
Department of Environmental Protection can basically relay to the
commission and the councils the state of the coast and answer any
questions that you have about the health of the ecosystem that's out
there.
And, again, they would like to do this on the 8th of May.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, I can make it, I think.
MR. MUDD: So it would be a morning workshop. And they --
and they also afford you the opportunity, if would you like to get
down -- downright personal with the water and things, to take you
out in an excursion in the afternoon so they can give you first hand
experience in those particular issues.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Henning wants to
know if he can bring his boat.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: What -- what -- where are we
going to be going with this, out to where? Excuse me.
MR. MUDD: Rookery Bay, the preserve. They have a brand
new compound that they're building, plus they have a brand new kind
of convention center. That will all be finished during that time and
Page 269
December 17, 2002
be able to house and give you the multi-media experience that they
would like to -- like to give you.
And they will probably -- they would like to do this -- they'd
like to do this once a year. I asked them if once a year might be a
little bit too much. Maybe an update on the odd years and go every
two years, because then you can start seeing changes because of
ordinances, laws, land development code, drainage type issues that
happen that you happen to be aware of and help fix during that time
and they can give you some results to that.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: The place looks wonderful as it's
going. And I might tell you that that's deep in the heart of District
One.
MR. MUDD: Yes, ma'am.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Just thought I'd mention that.
MR. MUDD: I would like to have some guidance -- I would
like to have some guidance from the Board to basically confirm the
8th of May with the Board for a morning workshop with the Florida
Department of Environmental Protection at Rookery Bay to discuss
the state of the coast.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Check our schedules.
COMMISSIONER HALAS:
MR. MUDD: It's all locked.
COMMISSIONER FIALA:
Sign me up.
I would like to move that we take
up the offer of the FDEP and meet at Rookery Bay on the 8th.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I second that.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. So we have a motion
Commissioner Fiala, a second by Commissioner Halas.
Any discussion?
(No response.)
aye.
by
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: All those in favor indicate by saying
COMMISSIONER HALAS: Aye.
Page 270
December 17, 2002
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Aye.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Aye.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: Aye.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Five to zero.
MR. MUDD: That's all I have, Commissioners.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. We're going to go down the
line here.
Commissioner Henning.
COMMISSIONER HENNING: I just want to thank the
Commissioners for this evening meeting tonight for the residents on
the item that we just discussed. The only thing that I would like to
do is kind of separate them out from the daytime activities.
But I also want to wish my fellow colleagues, who I am very
proud of, and staff and the general public a Merry Christmas and a
happy new year.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: Good.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Top that, Commissioner Coyle.
COMMISSIONER COYLE: We're adjourned.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: No, we're not. I got about fourteen
pages I have to go through here. I'm going to sum it up by just
saying merry Christmas and happy new year's to everyone.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: And the same with me. Merry
Christmas to all, happy holidays and happy new year, happy
Hanukkah and to all a good night.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Commissioner Halas.
COMMISSIONER HALAS: I just want to thank -- and most of
the people cleared out, but I just want to thank everybody here.
Hopefully or maybe they're watching this on television, that I want to
thank everybody for coming today and in staying here and listening
to all of the comments that were put forth. And I want to wish
everybody a very, very merry Christmas and a happy new year and
Page 271
December 17, 2002
happy holidays to everyone.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Okay. This is going to be fun.
me try it one more time here. There we go.
COMMISSIONER FIALA: Oh, this is the last time, right.
CHAIRMAN COLETTA: Yeah.
Let
*****Commissioner Coyle moved, seconded by Commissioner
Henning and carried unanimously, that the following items under the
Consent and Summary Agendas be approved and/or adopted, with
the exception of Item #16Al0, which was 4/0 (Commissioner
Henning abstained)*****
Item #16Al
COMMERCIAL EXCAVATION PERMIT NO. 59.838/AR-3388
"RON BEAVER COMMERCIAL EXCAVATION", LOCATED IN
SECTION 21, TOWNSHIP 48 SOUTH, RANGE 28, EAST;
BOUNDED ON THE NORTH BY 31 ST AVENUE NE RIGHT-OF-
WAY, ON THE WEST BY DESOTO BOULEVARD RIGHT-OF-
WAY, ON THE EAST BY VACANT AGRICULTURE ZONING,
AND ON THE SOl JTH BY VACANT FiSTATFJS ZONING
Item #16A2
SATISFACTION OF LIEN FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT CASE
NO. 2000100019 STYLED BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA VS. PHILIP
CARLTON, JR., REGARDING VIOLATION OF ORDINANCES
NO. 99-51 OF THE COLLIER COUNTY LAND DEVELOPMENT
CODE
Item #16A3
Page 272
December 17, 2002
RESOLUTIONS 2002-490 THROUGH 2002-498 PROVIDING
FOR THE ASSESSMENT OF LIENS FOR THE COST OF THE
ABATEMENT OF Pl ~BI.IC NI IISANCES
Item #16A4
RESOLUTION 2002-499 REGARDING PETITION AVESMT2002-
AR2788 TO VACATE, RENOUNCE AND DISCLAIM A
PORTION OF THE EASEMENT RECORDED BY SEPARATE
INSTRUMENT IN THE PUBLIC RECORDS OF COLLIER
COUNTY, FLORIDA. LOCATED ON JOHN MICHAEL ROAD,
SOUTH OF IMMOKALEE ROAD- NORTH AND WEST OF
SATIIRNIA I.AKES (AKA RIGAS)
Item #16A5
RECORDING THE FINAL PLAT OF "TRACT M OF WINDSTAR
REPI,AT"
Item gl 6A6
RESOLUTION 2002-500 GRANTING FINAL ACCEPTANCE OF
THE ROADWAY, DRAINAGE, WATER AND SEWER
IMPROVEMENTS FOR THE FINAL PLAT OF "PELICAN
MARSH IINIT El.EVEN"
Item #16A7
RECORDING THE FINAL PLAT OF "MONTREUX UNIT TWO
AT FIDDIJER'S CREEK"
Item #16A8
Page 273
December 17, 2002
SATISFACTION OF LIEN FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD
CASE NO. 2001-078 STYLED BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA VS. RICKY
L. BELL REGARDING VIOLATION OF SECTION(S) 2.7.6 PAR.
(1 & 5) OF ORDINANCE NO. 91-102, THE COLLIER COUNTY
LAND DEVELOPMENT CODE AND SECTION(S) 104.1.1,105.5,
106.3.1 OF ORDINANCE NO. 98-76, THE COLLIER COUNTY
BI JII~DING CONSTRI JCTION ADMINISTRATIVE CODE
Item #16A9
SATISFACTION OF LIEN FOR CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD
CASE NO. 2001-062 STYLED BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA VS. B.F. FT.
MYERS INC., REGARDING VIOLATION OF SECTIONS
2.4.3.6,2.4.3.7 AND 3.9.3 OF ORDINANCE NO. 91-102, AS
AMENDED OF THE COLLIER COUNTY LAND
DEVEI,OPMENT CODE
Item # 16A 10
APPROVE $21,200 IN CAPITAL AND $7,200 IN OPERATING
COSTS TO FUND THE BROADCAST OF CHANNEL 16, THE
COLLIER COUNTY GOVERNMENT ACCESS CHANNELS, TO
THE AOI~/TIME WARNER CAlqIJE SYSTEM IN IMMOKAI.EE
Item #16Al 1
RESOLUTION 2002-501 DESIGNATING THE NEW TOURISM
MARKETING OFFICE OF COLLIER COUNTY GOVERNMENT
AS THE GREATER NAPLES, MARCO ISLAND, AND THE
F~VF,RGIJADES CONVENTION AND VISITORS FIIIREAII
Page 274
December 17, 2002
Item #16A12
APPROVE TWO LEASE AGREEMENTS WITH C.P.O.C.
REALTY FOR OFFICE SPACE TO BE OCCUPIED BY
COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT AND ENVIRONMENTAL
SERVICES DIVISION STAFF AND COUNTY ATTORNEY
LEGAL STAFF AT AN ANNUAL RENT AND COMMON
MAINTENANCE FF, Fi OF $60~370
Item #16A13
CHAIRPERSON TO SIGN AN AGREEMENT AS THE
COMMUNITY REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY WITH LEE
COUNTY ELECTRIC COOPERATIVE (LCEC) FOR THE
INSTALLATION AND/OR UPGRADE OF APPROXIMATELY 45
STREETLIGHTS 1N IMMOKALEE USING $60,000 OF COLLIER
COUNTY'S COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT
(c nc ) rNDn, qa
Item #16A14
FIRST AMENDMENT TO TOURISM AGREEMENT WITH
KELLEY SWOFFORD ROY, INC., TO INCLUDE FY02/03
MARKETING AND ADVERTISING BUDGET IN THE AMOUNT
OF $602,000.00, AS RECOMMENDED BY THE TOURIST
DEVF, I~OPMENT COl INCII,
Item #16A15 - Added
RECORDING THE FINAL PLAT OF "CARLTON LAKES UNIT
3C" WITH APPROVAL OF THE STANDARD FORM
CONSTRUCTION, MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT AND
AMOI JNT OF THE PERFORMANCF, SECIIRITY
Page 275
December 17, 2002
Item # 16B 1
LANDSCAPE MAINTENANCE AGREEMENT WITH FP&L FOR
THE FUTURE LANDSCAPING AND MAINTENANCE ALONG
THE WEST SIDE OF LIVINGSTON ROAD AND NORTH SIDE
OF GOLDEN GATE PARKWAY ADJACENT TO THE FLORIDA
POWER AND I,IGHT SIJBSTATION
Item #16B2
DONATION OF FOUR DECORATIVE LIGHT POLES BY THE
BAYSHORE BEAUTIFICATION MSTU TO THE NAPLES
BC)TANICAIJ GARDEN-DONATION VAI,IJE $11,609.33
Item #16B3
SELECTION COMMITTEE RANKING OF CONSULTING FIRMS
AND SUBSEQUENT CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS FOR
PROFESSIONAL DESIGN AND ENGINEERING SERVICES FOR
4-LANE ROAD IMPROVEMENTS TO RATTLESNAKE
HAMMOCK ROAD BETWEEN POLLY AVENUE AND
COLLIER BOULEVARD, PROJECT NO. 60169, RFP 03-3446-
WITH AGNOLI, BARBER & BRUNDAGE; AMERICAN
ENGINF, ERING; AND STANIJEY CONSIJI~TANTS
Item #16B4
DEVELOPER CONTRIBUTION AGREEMENT WITH G.L.
HARDY, LTD. AS DEVELOPER FOR ROAD IMPACT CREDITS
AND VESTING RIGHTS IN EXCHANGE FOR THE DESIGN
AND CONSTRUCTION OF THE NORTHWARD EXTENSION OF
LOGAN BOULEVARD. ALL RIGHTS TO DEVELOPER UNDER
Page 276
December 17, 2002
THE DEVELOPER CONTRIBUTION AGREEMENT ARE
SUBJECT TO DEVELOPER COMPLYING WITH ALL
CONDITIONS OF THE AGREEMENT IMPOSED BY THE
COl JNTY
Item #16B5 - Moved to #10D
Item #16B6
AMENDMENT TO THE THIRD DEVELOPER CONTRIBUTION
AGREEMENT WITH LONG BAY PARTNERS, LLC TO AMEND
THE AREA IN THE ORIGINAI~ AGREEMENT
Item #16B7
EASEMENT AGREEMENT AND AN ACCESS EASEMENT
WITH KEITH AND DEBORAH KINKOR, REQUIRED FOR
PERIODIC MAINTENANCE OF THE GOLDEN GATE MAIN
CANAL UNDER THE BRIDGE CONSTRUCTED AT 13TM
STREET SW. FISCAl, IMPACT $57100.00. PROJECT NO. 69068
Item #16B8
EASEMENT AGREEMENT AND AN ACCESS EASEMENT
WITH JOAN M. KINKOR, REQUIRED FOR PERIODIC
MAINTENANCE OF THE GOLDEN GATE MAIN CANAL
UNDER THE BRIDGE CONSTRUCTED AT 13TM STREET SW.
FISCAl, IMPACT $57100.00. PROJECT NO. 69068
Item #16B9
SUPPLEMENTAL AGREEMENT FOR THE LOCAL AGENCY
PROGRAM (LAP) AGREEMENT WITH THE FLORIDA
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION (FDOT) TO ADD
Page 277
December 17, 2002
MULTIPLE-YEAR FUNDING VERBIAGE AS REQUESTED BY
THE FDOT AND TO MODIFY THE AGREEMENT TO PROVIDE
A COMBINATION OF SIDEWALKS AND PAVED SHOULDERS
AT NO ADDITIONAI, EXPENSE TO THF, COl INTY
Item # 16B 10
PURCHASE OF EIGHT (8) DIESEL POWERED RIDING
MOWERS FROM CAPRI LAWN EQUIPMENT CENTER FOR
THE ROAD MAINTENANCE DEPARTMENT FROM STATE
CONTRACT 3515-630-00-1 IN THE AMOIINT OF $107,875.44
Item #16B 11
THE UTILIZATION OF INSURANCE PROCEEDS, TRANSIT
ENHANCEMENT FUNDS AND FEDERAL TRANSIT
ADMINISTRATION FUNDING TO PURCHASE THREE NEW
TRANSIT BUSES AND REJECT AWARD OF BID #02-3428-IN
THF, AMOI JNT OF $410~300
Item # 16B 12
RESOLUTION 2002-502 AUTHORIZING THE EXECUTION OF
A JOINT PARTICIPATION AGREEMENT (JPA) WITH THE
FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION FOR
SECTION 5311 (OPERATING ASSISTANCE) FI JNDS
Item # 16C 1
RELOCATION AGREEMENT WITH FLORIDA POWER AND
LIGHT COMPANY RELATED TO SOUTH COUNTY WATER
RECLAMATION FACILITY EXPANSION, IN THE AMOUNT OF
$6,116: PROJECT 73949
Page 278
December 17, 2002
Item # 16C2
RESOLUTION 2002-503 GRANTING A CONSERVATION
EASEMENT TO THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION REQUIRED FOR THE
SOUTH COUNTY WATER RECLAMATION FACILITY
EXPANSION AT A COST NOT TO EXCEED $50.00, PROJECT
NO. 73949
Item #16C3
AMEND WORK ORDER CDM-FT-01-02 WITH CAMP DRESSER
& MCKEE FOR UTILITY ENGINEERING SERVICES RELATED
TO IMPROVING WELLFIELD RELIABILITY IN THE AMOUNT
OF $83:000, PROJECT 70066
Item #16C4
AWARD CONTRACT TO WRIGHT CONSTRUCTION
CORPORATION TO CONSTRUCT THE NORTH COUNTY
WATER RECLAMATION FACILITY DEEP INJECTION WELL
PUMP STATION, BID #03-3442, PROJECT 73948, IN THE
AMOIJNT OF $4:740,000
Item #16C5
AWARD CONSTRUCTION WORK ORDER #UC-004 TO
MITCHELL AND STARK CONSTRUCTION COMPANY, INC.
FOR THE RELOCATION OF WATER AND SEWER MAINS
RELATED TO THE FLORIDA DEPARTMENT OF
TRANSPORTATION'S WIDENING OF U.S. 41 FROM
BAREFOOT WILLIAMS ROAD TO EAST OF SR 951 IN THE
AMOI JNT OF $308,533.00
Page 279
December 17, 2002
Item #16C6
BUDGET AMENDMENT FOR ENGINEERING SERVICES
RELATED TO THE DESIGN AND PERMITTING OF COUNTY
BEACH RENOURISHMENT, PROJECT 90527, IN THE
AMOI YNT OF $635~000
Item # 16D 1
AWARD BID #03-3437 FOR RENTAL OF PORTABLE TOILETS
TO WASTE MANAGEMENT OF COLLIER COUNTY, INC-IN
THE AMOIJNT OF $242.66
Item #16D2
AWARD BID #03-3461 IN THE AMOUNT OF $62,850 TO
FINISHING BY BAKER, INC. FOR RESURFACING OF THE
MAIN POOIJ AT GOIJDEN GATE AOIIATIC COMPIJEX
Item #16D3
AWARD WORK ORDER PBS-02-09 IN THE AMOUNT OF
$97,053 TO PROFESSIONAL BUILDING SYSTEMS, INC., FOR
THE RENOVATION OF CAXAMBAS BOAT RAMP AND THE
REMOVAL AND RESTORATION OF THE COLLIER
BOI IIJEVARD I~OAT RAMP
Item #16D4
BUDGET AMENDMENT TO ENSURE CONTINUOUS
FI JNDING OF THE OIJDER AMERICANS ACT GRANT
Item #16D5
Page 280
December 17, 2002
RESOLUTION 2002-504 FOR TRAINING DATA COLLECTION
EQUIPMENT, COMPUTER SOFTWARE, AND
MEDICAL/RESCUE EQUIPMENT AND APPROVAL OF AN
EMERGENCY MEDICAL SERVICES (EMS) COUNTY GRANT
AND COl JNTY GRANT DISTRIBI ITION FORM
Item # 16D6
BUDGET AMENDMENT TO THE OLDER AMERICANS ACT
GRANT CONTRACT #OAA203.02
Item # 16E 1
AWARD BID #03-3443 TO ZEPHYRHILLS NATURAL SPRING
WATER FOR PURCHASE AND DELIVERY OF BOTTLED
DRINKING WATER AT AN ANNIIAI~ COST OF $35:000
Item #16E2
AWARD CONTRACT SEVERN TRENT SERVICES FOR
MANAGEMENT SERVICES FOR PELICAN BAY SERVICES
DIVISION PURSUANT TO RFP #02-3411, IN THE ANNUAL
AMOI ~xlT OF $487000
Item #16E3
AWARD BID #03-3426 TO CECIL'S COPY EXPRESS FOR
QUICK COPY SERVICES, ESTIMATED ANNUAL COST OF
$30~000
Item # 16E4
Page 281
December 17, 2002
BUDGET AMENDMENT TO COMPLETE THE
IMPLEMENTATION OF THE NEW INTEGRATED FINANCIAL
MANAGEMENT SYSTEM
Item # 16I 1
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE- FILED AND/OR
REFERRED
The following miscellaneous correspondence, as presented by
the Board of County Commissioners, has been directed to the various
departments as indicated:
Page 282
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
MISCELLANEOUS CORRESPONDENCE
December 17, 2002
FOR BOARD ACTION:
1. MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS TO FILE FOR RECORD WITH ACTION AS DIRECTED:
Ao
Bo
Co
Clerk of Courts: Submitted for public record, pursuant to Florida Statutes,
Chapter 136.06(1), the disbursements for the Board of County Commissioners for
the period:
1. Disbursements for November 16, 2002 through November 22, 2002.
Districts:
Tuscany Reserve Community Development District - Minutes of October
14, 2002
Fiddlers Creek Community Development District - Minutes of November
20, 2002.
o
Collier Mosquito Control District - Amended Final Annual Certified
Budget.
Minutes:
Vanderbilt Beach M.S.T.U. - Agenda for December 5, 2002; Minutes of
November 7, 2002.
Development Services Advisory Committee - Agenda for December 4,
2002; Minutes of November 6, 2002
Collier County Airport Authority - Agenda for November 18, 2002;
Minutes of October 14, 2002.
Collier County Contractor's Licensing Board - Agenda for November 20,
2002.
o
Historical Archaeological Preservation Board - Agenda for November 20,
2002; Minutes of October 16, 2002.
Collier County Planning Commission - Agenda for November 21, 2002;
Minutes of October 17, 2002.
Golden Gate Fire Control and Rescue District - Agenda for November
13, 2002.
Other:
1) Guy L. Carlton, Tax Collector - Budget Amendment Transfer
H:Data~Format
December 17, 2002
Item # 16J 1
DETERMINATION THAT PURCHASES OF GOODS AND
SERVICES DOCUMENTED IN THE DETAILED REPORT OF
OPEN PURCHASE ORDERS SERVE A VALID PUBLIC
PURPOSE AND AUTHORIZE THE EXPENDITURE OF
COIJNTY FI INDS TO SATISFY SAID PIIRCHASF, S
Item #16K1
THE STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT RELATIVE TO THE
FEE SIMPLE ACQUISITION OF PARCELS 120A AND 120B IN
THE LAWSUIT ENTITLED COLLIER COUNTY V. COLLIER
DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION, ET AL, (GOODLETTE-FRANK
ROAD, PINE RIDGE ROAD TO VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD
PROJF, CT) IN THE AMOI JNIT OF $27500
Item #16K2
THE MAKING OF AN OFFER OF JUDGMENT TO
RESPONDENTS LORENZO DIAZ AND CECILIA DIAZ, BOTH
INDIVIDUALLY AND AS TRUSTEES, FOR PARCEL NO. 169 IN
THE AMOUNT OF $14,400 IN THE LAWSUIT STYLED
COLLIER COUNTY V. ISMAEL GONZALES, ET AL, CASE NO. 02-
21 59-CA (IMMOKAIJF, F, ROAD PROJF, CT #60018)
Item #16K3
THE MAKING OF AN OFFER OF JUDGMENT TO
RESPONDENTS EARL E. LIGHTCAP, JR., AND BARBARA C.
LIGHTCAP, FOR PARCEL NO. 170 IN THE AMOUNT OF
$12,600 IN THE LAWSUIT STYLED COLLIER COUNTY V.
Page 283
December 17, 2002
ISMAEL GONZALES, ET AL, CASE NO. 02-2159-CA
(IMMOKAIJEF. ROAD PROJF. CT #60018)
Item g 16K4
THE MAKING OF AN OFFER OF JUDGMENT TO
RESPONDENTS RONALD COMBS AND PHYLLIS J. COMBS,
FOR PARCEL NO. 172 IN THE AMOUNT OF $79,560 IN THE
LAWSUIT STYLED COLLIER COUNTY V. ISMAEL GONZALES,
ETAL, CASE NO. 02-2159-CA (IMMOKALEE ROAD PROJECT
Item gl 6K5 - Continued to 1/14/03 BCC Meeting
THE MEDIATED SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT AND THE
STIPULATED FINAL JUDGMENT INCORPORATING THE
SAME TERMS AND CONDITIONS AS THE MEDIATED
SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT RELATIVE TO THE
ACQUISITION ON PARCEL NOS. 114, 115 AND 116 IN THE
LAWSUIT ENTITLED COLLIER COUNTY V. CENTEXHOMES, A
NEVADA GENERAL PARTNERSHIP, ET AL, CASE NO. 02-1602-
CA (GOODIJF. TTF.-FRANK ROAD PROJFJCT #60134)
Item g 16K6- Moved to g l2A
Item gl 7A
RESOLUTION 2002-505 RE PETITION CU-02-AR-3278,
RICHARD G. LEWIS OF ANCHOR ENGINEERING INC.,
REPRESENTING COLLIER COUNTY GOVERNMENT, JOHN
JONES, LIBRARY DIRECTOR, REQUESTING A
CONDITIONAL USE FOR AN ESSENTIAL SERVICE WITHIN
THE "RSF-3" RESIDENTIAL SINGLE FAMILY ZONING
DISTRICT FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT THE SOUTHWEST
Page 284
December 17, 2002
CORNER OF IMMOKALEE DRIVE AND FIRST STREET IN
IMMOKAI.EE
Item # 17B
ORDINANCE 2002-67 RE PETITION PUDA-2002-AR-2736, D.
WAYNE ARNOLD OF Q. GRADY MINOR, P.A.,
REPRESENTING GARY A. LINK OF TADPOLE HOLDINGS
LLC, REQUESTING AN AMENDMENT TO THE "THE FALLS
OF NAPLES" PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT (PUD), FOR
THE PURPOSE OF REDUCING THE MINIMUM ACCESSORY
STRUCTURE SETBACK FROM 50 FEET TO 25 FEET FROM
AIRPORT-PULLING ROAD FOR PROPERTY LOCATED ON
THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF PINE RIDGE ROAD (CR 896)
AND AIRPORT-PI JIJJlNG ROAD (CR 31)
Item #17C- Moved to #81
Item #17D- Continued to January 14, 2003 BCC Meeting
PUDZ-2001-AR-1749, WILLIAM L. HOOVER, OF HOOVER
PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT INC., REPRESENTING
MARK L. LINDER, TRUSTEE, REQUESTING A REZONE FROM
"A" RURAL AGRICULTURAL AND "PUD" PLANNED UNIT
DEVELOPMENT TO "PUD" PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT
KNOWN AS THE MISSION HILLS PUD, FOR A COMMERCIAL
SHOPPING CENTER FOR PROPERTY LOCATED AT THE
NORTHEAST CORNER OF VANDERBILT BEACH ROAD AND
COIJJF, R BOIII~FJVARD (CR 951)
Page 285
December 17, 2002
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 7:40 p.m.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS/EX
OFFICIO GOVERNING BOARD(S) OF
SPECIAL DISTRICTS UNDER ITS CONTROL
JAMES COLETTA, CHAIRMAN
ATTEST:
,. e:?I~-t~. ~iC~HT E. BROCK, CLERK
' i~~~'minutes approved by the Board on
as presented / or as co~ected
TRANSCRIPT PREPARED ON BEHALF OF GREGORY COURT
REPORTING SERVICE, INC. BY TERRI LEWIS and DEBRA J.
DeLAP, NOTARY PUBLIC.
Page 286