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CLB Minutes 11/20/2002 RNovember 20, 2002 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD Naples, Florida November 20, 2002 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Contractors' Licensing Board, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: LES DICKSON WALTER CRAWFORD, IV RICHARD JOSLIN ANN KELLER KENNETH LLOYD MARGARET RODGERS ALSO PRESENT: Thomas Bartoe, Licensing Compliance Officer Robert Zachary, County Attorney Patrick Neale, Counsel to the Board Page 1 ~OOl COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARi~ DATE: November 20, 2002 TIME.: 9;00 A,M, W, HARMON TURNER BUILDING (ADMINISTRATION BUll_DING7 _COURTHOUSE COMPLEX ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISlQN OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS iS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THAT TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED. I. ROLL CALL II. ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS; III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA: IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: DATE: August 21, 2002 V. DISCUSSION: VI. NEW BUSINESS; i Adolfo A. Carta - Request to qualify a secorrct company, Dorethea Schmitz - Request to qualify a second company. Michael T. Geary - Review of credit report. Paul M, Bichler- Review of credit report, Mi, lan Kamientcky - Second request to waive exam for Painting license. Brenda A. Denton - Request to waive exam for Masonry license. Antonio C. Rojas - Request to waive exam for Tile & Mamte license. VII. OLD BUSINESS: VIII. PUBLIC HEARINGS: Michael R. Finley - Contesting Citati~ #~,77g [ss~ed for wor~tncj with no license or permits. ,N3tomo J. EcheT. a~reta - Contesting Citation #1784 issued for Working with no license. iX. REPORTS: X. NEXT MEETING DATE: DECEMBER 18. 2002 November 20, 2002 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Good morning. I'd like to call to order the meeting of the Collier County Contractor Licensing Board, November 20th, 2002, at 9:02 a.m. Any person who decides to appeal a decision of this board will need a record of the proceedings pertaining thereto and, therefore, may need to ensure that a verbatim record of the proceedings is made, which record includes that testimony and evidence upon which the appeal is to be based. We do have two new board members this morning. I would -- just for a minute, if you'll give me your name again, Ann? MS. KELLER: Ann Keller. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Ann, welcome, good to have you. And Margaret? MS. RODGERS: Margaret Rodgers. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Margaret Rodgers, good to have you. I'd like to have roll call, starting at my right, please. MR. CRAWFORD: Walter Crawford. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Les Dickson. MR. JOSLIN: Richard Joslin. MR. LLOYD: Ken Lloyd. MS. KELLER: Ann Keller. MS. RODGERS: Margaret Rodgers. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any additions or deletions to the agenda, Mr. Bartoe? MR. BARTOE: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, board members. For the record, I'm Tom Bartoe, Collier County licensing compliance officer. And I at this time would also like to introduce a new person in our department, Jim Hoopingarner, a licensing compliance officer. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Hi, Jim. MR. BARTOE: Staff has two deletions, and they're both under public hearings. Both those public hearings we wish to delete. Page 2 November 20, 2002 Those cases have been settled. And staff has no other additions or deletions. MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Bartoe, our two new members, they are consumer representatives, or -- MR. BARTOE: Yes, they are. And did Mr. Dickson tell them how great the pay is on this job? MR. CRAWFORD: I hope not. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Your check's in the mail. I need a motion to approve the agenda as amended. MR. JOSLIN: So moved, Joslin. MR. CRAWFORD: Second, Crawford. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. LLOYD: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MS. RODGERS: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. CRAWFORD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So approved. Also, you have in your packet the minutes of the meeting of August 21 st, 2002. I need a motion to approve those, or amend them, whatever. MR. JOSLIN: So moved. MR. CRAWFORD: Second, Crawford. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MS. RODGERS: Aye. MR. CRAWFORD: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. LLOYD: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. Page 3 November 20, 2002 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: They are approved. In discussion, we have nothing. So with that, let's jump into new business. First case is Mr. Carta. Are you present? Mr. Carta is not here. By the way, Jim, welcome aboard. We're thrilled to have you. MR. HOOPINGARNER: Thank you, I'm glad to be here. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: There's not a lack of work, is there? MR. HOOPINGARNER: No, sir, there isn't. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We'll come back, see if Mr. Carta comes in. Mr. (sic) Schmitz, are you present? Dorethea Schmitz, am I saying it right? Okay, if you would come forward, I need you to come over to this podium up here. And Ms. Schmitz, I need to have you sworn in by the court reporter, please. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you're here to request to qualify a second company, correct? MS. SCHMITZ: Correct. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Give me the who, what, why, when and wheres. MS. SCHMITZ: Pardon me? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What are you wanting to qualify and your purpose for qualifying. MS. SCHMITZ: Well, I would like to have some more businesses succeeding the trade, and I'm qualifying only one business, and I would like to expand my own activity and give the second company a chance to do so. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You are presently qualifying what Page 4 November 20, 2002 MR. MS. MR. way? company? MS. SCHMITZ: The Fuesenleger, Inc. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What type of business is that? MS. SCHMITZ: We are in the tile and marble trade. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Marble? MS. SCHMITZ: Tile and marble installations. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Tile and marble? MS. SCHMITZ: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you're wanting to qualify what company? MS. SCHMITZ: The Sauerland Corporation. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Ladies and gentlemen, any questions? MR. CRAWFORD: What will the Sauerland Corporation do? MS. SCHMITZ: Same, tile and marble installations, yes. CRAWFORD: And how are the two companies different? SCHMITZ: Pardon me? CRAWFORD: Are the two companies different in any MS. SCHMITZ: Well, the difference is going to be actually that the Sauerland Corporation is going to be like more with builders, with commercial installations, and we keep The Fuesenleger with more residential. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is there a form in here for financial responsibility? MR. NEALE: Yeah, in here, all those -- they're in the -- No. 6, financial responsibility explains all that. And No. 7, there's a credit report. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's a good credit report. Mr. Bartoe, any complaints on this company that's already qualified? MR. BARTOE: No, sir. Page 5 November 20, 2002 MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Chairman, I've reviewed the application, and I move to approve for a second NC license to Mrs. Schmitz for the new company. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I need a second. MR. JOSLIN: I second the motion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Motion is that she be approved for the second license. All those in favor, signify by saying aye. MR. CRAWFORD: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MR. LLOYD: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MS. RODGERS: Aye. MR. CRAWFORD: Any discussion? I just want to say, Mrs. Schmitz, just as a point of reference, I see that you're not an officer of the new company and that you're only a 10 percent owner, which is acceptable to this board, but I just want to caution you that it's your license that's on the line and they'll be acting on your behalf. MS. SCHMITZ: Actually, I am an officer. Just that Tallahassee needs a little bit longer to put the -- MR. CRAWFORD: Oh, good, okay. MS. SCHMITZ: So if you want to -- MR. CRAWFORD: We don't need it, but that makes it even better. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay, we heard the vote, but let's say it again. All those in favor? MR. CRAWFORD: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. Page 6 November 20, 2002 MR. LLOYD: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. MS. RODGERS: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: approved. Opposed? We wish you well. You have been For you and everyone that's in this room that's wanting a second entity -- or a second qualification, your paperwork is here. Don't go to the county today because they'll have nothing. Do that tomorrow, contractor licensing, and they'll get you taken care of. MS. SCHMITZ: Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Best of luck to you. Mr. Geary. Michael Geary, are you present? I need to have you sworn in, Mr. Geary. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you are here to get a license from Mike Geary Cabinets, Incorporated, correct? MR. GEARY: No, that's wrong. I used to own that business. That business went bankrupt. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. MR. GEARY: I just want -- I've scaled everything back. I just want to go out on my own right now as a cabinet installer. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Under the name of Michael Geary? MR. GEARY: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. And since your credit report is what we're reviewing, because you've passed everything else, if you would, explain the bankruptcy and when it happened. MR. GEARY: Well, the bankruptcy happened within the last year, I think it was. I can't remember. But anyway, the bankruptcy happened because I just ran into trouble. I had 30 employees, it was three people in the corporation. One of the major people of the Page 7 November 20, 2002 corporation died. Her children didn't want anything to do with it, and we were kind of floundering, and we didn't make it. So -- and I've been in this business -- well, when I moved down here in 1972, I pretty much got right into the construction business. Been a mechanic, you know, a builder, cabinet -- I've mainly been in the cabinet side of it, and been in the field most of my life. And the venture into the cabinet shop didn't work, because it's hard to manage 30 people. It's really hard to keep 30 talented people. And there wasn't -- up in Fort Myers where the corporation's located, in three years we went through 230 employees to keep 30. And it was just a nightmare. Just didn't work. And that's why we went down. MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Geary, your credit report shows three judgments against you. Are those still outstanding, or have those been resolved? MR. GEARY: They're still outstanding right now. MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Neale, can we issue a license to prospects that have judgments against them? MR. NEALE: I mean, the board does have the ability to do that, but one of the grounds under the Florida Administrative Code rules that govern financial responsibility is the financial responsibility grounds on which the board shall refuse to qualify an entity shall include the existence within the past five years preceding application of an unsatisfied court judgment rendered against the applicant, based upon the failure of the applicant to pay its just obligations to parties with whom the applicant conducted business as a contractor. So it would be my interpretation of that that if these are contracting-related debts and those obligations are unsatisfied, that the Florida Administrative Code would say that you can't grant him a license. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yet we've had those before where we had judgments and we could not issue them till the judgments were satisfied. Page 8 November 20, 2002 Your bankruptcy was February of this year. MR. GEARY: Okay. I was in the manufacturing business then. It wasn't anything to do with contracting. MR. CRAWFORD: Understood. But I don't think there's -- I don't think that matters. MR. GEARY: Well, okay. So the-- MR. CRAWFORD: And that was my understanding, too, Mr. Neale. I think we've been pretty black-and-white on that in the past in that if there's judgments against -- those need to be satisfied. MR. NEALE: If it's -- if it was a judgment related to the business, to the contracting business, then it's pretty clear. MR. GEARY: The bankruptcy was for Mike Geary Cabinets, Inc. Unfortunately my name got dragged into it because of-- which of course this was the first time I was ever part of a corporation. I guess not knowing or whatever. But then of course they used me. I had my name on some of the financial responsibility, I guess, when I probably shouldn't have had. I mean, that's why you have a corporation that is a separate entity, and that's how you protect yourself personally, but that didn't happen in my case. Of course, I'm asking the board here because I'm a good mechanic, all of my customers that I've worked with in the past are 100 percent satisfied, and I've probably got thousands of customers that I've worked for. And, you know, I would like to get my license so I can continue to pay my bills and make an honest living. MR. CRAWFORD: I sympathize and understand. I think our hands are tied. I don't think we have an ability to grant you a license until these judgments are taken care of. MR. GEARY: So if I personally went bankrupt, would that take care of that? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No. MR. CRAWFORD: That's not the issue. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What you're dealing with, first of all, Page 9 November 20, 2002 you've got some personal guarantees out there which are going to haunt you. And we are -- I mean, it's black-and-white for us. What he's reading is from the Florida Administrative Code, which is State of Florida. We can't issue a license as long as there's a judgment against you. And we are bound by Florida Administrative Code and Collier County codified code, so there's two of them. And it's not a matter that we don't want to do it, it's a flat matter we can't do it. The only way we can consider it is if you get rid of these judgments. We have had that come before this board several times in the past, and once people got the judgment satisfied and had a clean record, then we have found ways to get them approved. But with those judgments, we can't do a thing for you. MR. GEARY: Well, I'll have to work on that. MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Chairman, do we need -- does he need to come back before the board, if these judgments are cleared up, or through staff?. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I would -- I think we should make a motion -- Mr. Neale, if you agree, I think we should make a motion to deny the license, and when those judgments are cleared up, then an application be made again and we review it at that time. MR. NEALE: I think that would be appropriate. MR. CRAWFORD: I'll make that motion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We need a second. MR. JOSLIN: Joslin, second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Motion's been made and seconded that we deny the application. All those in favor? MR. LLOYD: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. CRAWFORD: Aye. MS. RODGERS: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. Page 10 November 20, 2002 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I wish you the best of luck. I wish we could have done more for you. MR. GEARY: Thanks a lot. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Paul Bichler, are you present? Come forward, please. I need to have you swom in, sir. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And we're reviewing your credit report; is that correct, sir? MR. BICHLER: I believe that's the case, yes. MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Chairman, I see this one a little bit differently. This one I don't see any judgments or bankruptcies, but it's a pretty rough credit report, quite frankly. Maybe you could enlighten us on what some of the issues are. MR. BICHLER: I had submitted a letter with the credit report, which I don't know if you got it or not. It's a addendum to application form. MR. CRAWFORD: But what does that say? MR. BICHLER: Okay, well, what that says is the negative credit occurred in a time period which is related to activities in my life, which is my marriage broke up. She went to another state. I continued to support her and the kids. The -- she abused her credit cards. She had her vehicle repossessed. I sent money to her, she had the ability to use it as she -- at her discretion. Well, she didn't do very well. My name's on these things, so I get dragged into it. I had an addition to that. This is within a four-year period till -- to present. The -- in the last year, my -- one of my daughters got cancer, and I -- it's hard for me to talk about. I did the best I could. I couldn't keep up with the bills. Now I'm trying to get things going again. I was -- I left the state for about 10 months. I came back a Page 11 November 20, 2002 couple months ago. I took the test for a license here. I did, I passed the test. The process I'm doing is being here today to discuss this, the credit problem. MR. CRAWFORD: I understand completely. MR. BICHLER: I had solid, very good credit prior to this occurrence, so -- MR. CRAWFORD: Just to put yourself in my shoes, we're tasked with issuing licenses to people that can run a business that have the financial stability to do so, and we're looking at what I see to be over $100,000 of bills that you have to -- if I'm adding these numbers up correctly. MR. BICHLER: I don't think it's -- MR. CRAWFORD: No? I see Bank of America, 29,000, Bank of America, 21,000, Bank of America, 17,000. MR. BICHLER: You've got to read the-- MR. CRAWFORD: Help me understand. MR. BICHLER: -- across all the way to the other side. That's paid. Those are good credits. That's a mortgage that was paid off. MR. CRAWFORD: Okay. MR. BICHLER: What you need to focus on -- MR. CRAWFORD: What is your outstanding balance on your MR. BICHLER: I didn't make a total here. MR. CRAWFORD: What do you think it should be? MR. BICHLER: I would say 10,000. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: When did the divorce take place? How long ago? MR. BICHLER: She left in '98. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: She left in '98, but I see Tri-County Marine, which you qualified, took a Chapter 11 bankruptcy on January 11 th of '96. Page 12 November 20, 2002 MR. BICHLER: Right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So you were having trouble before the divorce took place. MR. BICHLER: The upside of that is that's a reorganization. The process went through and was accepted. It's a -- from what I'm told, there's a low percentage rate of companies that survive the reorganization Chapter 11. This company made it through there and kept going. It was -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So the bankruptcy was dismissed in '98? MR. BICHLER: Sure. And that's a-- that end of it is a plus. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Right. MR. BICHLER: Now, it doesn't have direct bearing on what we're looking at here. This is credit cards and -- MR. CRAWFORD: And I do stand corrected. Looks like the past due amounts are closer to the $20,000. MR. LLOYD: I would like to just ask about one item on this credit report. And I'm just looking at the Sears. You have two different account numbers, which means there are two different cards. One I assume is your wife's and the other's is yours? MR. BICHLER: No, Sears has a system that they have a standard card and they have a Sears Plus card. MR. LLOYD: And your wife had both of these? MR. BICHLER: Yes. Yes, it's a-- it's like if you're with them for a while, they offer you this extension. You can -- it raises your credit limit. It's the -- they both say the same thing, but one says Sears Plus. MR. LLOYD: Okay, you have 10 -- on those two cards alone, there are 10 over 90-day past dues, just on those two cards. But that's all attributable to your wife; is that correct? Do you not have an opportunity to sever your ownership in these cards? Could you have not contacted Sears? Page 13 November 20, 2002 MR. BICHLER: I don't know that. I didn't, but I don't know the answer there. MS. KELLER: When you went through the bankruptcy process, was debt forgiven in that process? MR. BICHLER: Is there any residual debt from that? There's no debt from that. MS. KELLER: No, but when you went through the organization, was debt forgiven? MR. BICHLER: On a reorganization, debt is reduced. You pay the debt at a lower rate, and that was done. MS. KELLER: That's my question. MR. BICHLER: Yeah, and that-- it came out fine. In two -- it took twO years, but everything was paid off. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You've been working in Broward and Dade County? MR. BICHLER: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Your license is still active there? MR. BICHLER: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Why are you coming to Collier County? MR. BICHLER: There's a number of reasons. One of them being it's a better place to be. The quality of life here is, in my opinion, is what I'm looking for. The -- it's kind of like I feel like I paid my dues being over there. I've been in the trades for 20 years. This is something that -- I used to .come here on the weekends to get away from there. I've been back from Wisconsin is where I was for a couple of months now. And I -- this is where I'd like to do business, so -- I've applied as an individual at this time. The -- part of the package they gave me was to, you know, come in with your business name, your business address, occupational license, all the things, insurances, and I said can I get through the process to see if I can be certified, don't give me Page 14 November 20, 2002 the license, but then I'll bring in the other stuff. It's a major expense if you've gotta go sign a lease on a business location, sign up insurances, that is always a big down-stroke. And then you come to this point in the trail and they say, oh, we can't give you a license because whatever, your credit report. So there's another letter in your package where I've said that, where I've described the activities I've done so far: I passed the test, I filed the application, I've given the references, the affidavits. The things that I haven't done yet are things that are going to incur money: Signing a lease, bringing in the insurance policies; which I'm very willing to do, I just need to know that I can be accepted. If I'm accepted, you guys just hold the license until I comply with everything, that's fine. But it's a monetary reason that I'm saying this. And another issue is that I'm applying as an individual. Well, once I'm established, I will turn it into a business. I've got an investment partner who's going to come in and jump-start the whole thing. Well, that's -- that will happen as soon as I get through the licensing part. And that is a -- maybe shed some light onto how am I going to run a business when I've come through a bad economic period. So that is part of my plan. MR. LLOYD: Are you still vulnerable with regards to your wife and childrens' financial woes? MR. BICHLER: I would say certainly on the credit card issues, yeah. But that's the kind of thing, it's not a sinking the ship situation, you know, it's a payment plan situation. I know what kind of money I can make in the trades. I've been doing it a long time. I know I can handle that stuff. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You say you're going to have a financial partner? MR. BICHLER: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Bartoe, have you checked out Page 15 November 20, 2002 Broward or Dade County licenses? MR. BARTOE: No, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: We can do that, can't we? MR. BARTOE: Yes, we can. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Find out if there's any complaints and the status of those licenses at the present time? MR. BARTOE: Yes, we can. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I can pretty well feel this board and where we're going. And as long as I've served on this board, which has been longer than I want to mention -- you have to understand why this board was established. This board is here only for the sole purpose of protecting the citizens of Collier County. That's our only function. And we serve at the will of the county commissioners. Given your credit report and its present volatile state, I don't think you're ever going to get approved by this board with your present credit report. I know I wouldn't vote for it. One way you might accomplish your goal is to get your financial partner to submit a credit report, and it might fly on his credit report. Yours isn't going to go. I don't know if-- I'm not speaking for everyone else, but I'm telling you, I wouldn't approve it, nor could I approve it. I do want Mr. Bartoe to, between now and the next time you come before this board, to check out your license in Dade and Broward County, see if there's any complaints or problems over there. But we have to -- we have to be careful, not only once you get approved and you're working successfully in Collier County, you would want us to do that for any future people as well. MR. BARTOE: I would suggest that Mr. Bichler provide us with copies of these licenses, because I see nothing in the packet. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: In the packet he's given you the numbers on the second page. He's given you the license numbers. MR. CRAWFORD: Yeah, Mr. Chairman, I would agree, the Page 16 November 20, 2002 precedent of this board has been in this situation to ask the applicant to go back, clean up his credit report and reapply. And based on that, I would make the motion that we deny this application, based on an unsatisfactory credit report. MR. LLOYD: I second. Second, Lloyd. MR. BICHLER: Can I speak before you do that? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Go ahead. MR. BICHLER: This is how I feel about it. My opinion is you may have certain laws or rules you have to follow, and then there's certain things that are discretionary. But the -- I think that the ultimate answer here is someone's ability to perform the trade and their business ability. That's something that happened to me personally. To me it doesn't seem fair that that's the reason I can't do my trade. And it's something that happened beyond my control. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And what you're saying is correct. And what's happened to you could happen to any of us on this board. And I fully sympathize, especially a child having cancer. I can't imagine the pain. And it's not anything personally against you. It's just that -- nor your ability to perform your work. That's not what's at issue here. It's only the financial situation that you're in. And if you look at what yOu've got here, and new contractor coming in, if we turned you loose and these problems continue, could you imagine what (sic) the residents of this county would react towards this board? Not saying that they would continue. MR. BICHLER: What problems are going to continue, my credit card problems or-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Your inability to pay for your materials and jobs, that there's not liens or unpaid bills. That's what we're looking at. MR. BICHLER: Well, I understand that. And part of my business plan is to get qualified and then establish the business and Page 17 November 20, 2002 establish it with financial support, not come in with myself and my empty wallet. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's all well and good. But once we approve this credit report, you're out of our purview and control. So, in other words, this credit report has to be resolved first, and the only way I think you're going to do that is with a financial partner. MR. LLOYD: What we're trying to -- excuse me for interrupting. What we're trying to do is give you an opportunity to get into business. Your skills are there; you've told us that your skills are there. The other component that's required for business is financial stability. You personally don't have that, but you have a financier coming in. MR. BICHLER: Right. MR. LLOYD: Just have that person bring his or her financial report to us. Then we'll review it at that point in time. Then it's financial for that person and your skills, and you have an opportunity to be successful. MR. BICHLER: That would work, yes. I had the feeling this was the end of the trail. MR. LLOYD: No, that's not what he said at all. That's why I wanted to clarify, because I had a feeling you thought that, too. We're trying to provide you with an opportunity to be successful. MR. BICHLER: Sure. MR. LLOYD: But the component of finances with regards to you personally aren't there. So if we can get that corrected through another individual, then let's move forward. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: In fact, if-- MR. NEALE: If I can suggest something to the board, too. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Neale? MR. NEALE: I don't know how he's been operating his business in the past in Broward and Dade, but if he has a business credit report, that's certainly something that the board would have to Page 18 November 20, 2002 look at, because it's primarily the business credit that the board is concerned with. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Exactly. And with that financial responsibility officer or financial partner, it may be so clean, and if your business credit report is clean, it's possible that you may not have to come back before this board. But what we have in front of us here today is just your credit report. And know this -- well, there's been a motion for it not to be approved. MR. LLOYD: And a second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: There is a motion on the floor. MR. LLOYD: And a second. We just haven't voted. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And a second that we deny this application. All those in favor? MR. LLOYD: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. CRAWFORD: Aye. MS. RODGERS: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So you know which route you need to go. Get with your business partner. We need a full credit report from him, full credit report on the business. And as far as your question on insurance, get all the credit reports done; yeah, we'll look at it without certificates of insurance. MR. BICHLER: The clerk said get a letter from an insurance company saying that they will give you the insurance coverage when you're ready for it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: That's good. MR. LLOYD: Letter of commitment. Page 19 November 20, 2002 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Hope you can put it together. MR. BICHLER: Yeah, I've got the licenses for Dade and Broward County right here, if you want to copy them. MR. BARTOE: I would appreciate it. I don't believe we have a copy machine in here, though. Next door outside they might be able to make you copies for me. MR. BICHLER: I'll get that. MR. BARTOE: Yes, I'd appreciate that. MR. BICHLER: Okay, thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Next on the agenda, we've got Mi -- boy, this is a tough one. Milan, are you here? MR. BARTOE: Mr. Chairman, to refresh your memory, he was here in August before you, and I believe if you'd look at the minutes of the August meeting on the bottom of Page 7, top of Page 8, he was advised to -- he was unable to pass either the business and law test or the painting test, either one. And I believe the board told him if he could at least pass one of them, you know, possibly he would be able to come back before them. And in his packet today you'll see that on October 5th he did pass the business and law with a 78, and I believe at that time also he got higher on painting than he has ever before. And I believe he's scheduled to take the test again in December; is that correct? MR. KAMIENICKY: Yes, that's right. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: If you would, state your name. MR. KAMIENICKY: Excuse me? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: State your name, please. MR. KAMIENICKY: Milan Kamienicky. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Say it again? MR. KAMIENICKY: Milan Kamienicky. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mila (sic) Kamienicky? MR. KAMIENICKY: Milan, M-I-L-A-N. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I need to have you sworn in, please. Page 20 November 20, 2002 (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So the only thing we had with you was your test scores. MR. KAMIENICKY: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And I do remember you now. Remember the face more than the name. MR. JOSLIN: That's because you couldn't pronounce the name. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Is it Russian? MR. KAMIENICKY: I'm actually originally from Poland. I'm bom in the Czech Republic in Poland. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I see. MR. BARTOE: I believe, Mr. Dickson, we had the entire packet the last time. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, we did. And I may have kept his from last meeting. Okay, from the last meeting, those -- it's not on this one, is it? MR. CRAWFORD: That was with this package. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, it is? Okay. So you've been taking this test for how long? MR. KAMIENICKY: It's been almost a year now. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah. Well, over a year. First time you took it was in November of 2001. MR. CRAWFORD: Mr. Chairman, I remember this case. And everything about this gentleman seemed just right, with the exception of the ability to pass his test. He's taken it a dozen or more times, I believe. And I don't want to make light of the fact that this board makes exceptions for not meeting the minimum requirements, but I'm perfectly okay with moving forward with the license to Mr. Kamienicky, based on his desire and tenacity and almost getting there. MR. KAMIENICKY: I don't know if you guys have the last Page 21 November 20, 2002 few. Actually, I have 68.3 under the painting. And I complain last time. It's a couple questions on Experior test. It's kind of-- what I feel like, it's against the painting, if somebody ask you how many bricks you need for build a fireplace. So I complain that and they told me, this is just fill-in question for the exam, because they don't know what else should ask. So I feel like that's not right. MR. LLOYD: Especially when you're wrong. MR. KAMIENICKY: I'm not building fireplaces, I'm painting. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Bartoe, you took that painting license (sic), didn't you? MR. BARTOE: Those questions weren't there back in '87. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But you told some questions that were outrageous that were on the test. MR. BARTOE: There were. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And we've heard nothing but complaints about the painting license, that they throw weird things in. For my edification, you were having trouble with the language also? MR. KAMIENICKY: Yes, a little bit, yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: What did Experior do to help you with that? MR. KAMIENICKY: Nothing at all. They say they have English language trans -- English, or they can have translate into Spanish, which is nice, but nothing I can do with my language, because no one can translate my language. That's what -- they say they don't have the person or anybody who can help me with that. So I try best I can. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So how did you do it? MR. KAMIENICKY: How I did? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: How did you do it? MR. KAMIENICKY: I sit down every night in front of the Page 22 November 20, 2002 book and I said to myself, I'm not going out to down 78 (phonetic). But now the painting, like I said, some questions, it's kind of against to the painting. And I just guess, because it don't make sense spend three, four minutes thinking about it and do some math. And you say to yourself, I'm painter, I'm not builder. So I just let it go. MR. NEALE: If I can refer the board to Pages 7 and 8 of the minutes that you have with you that were in your packet. MR. CRAWFORD: The August 21 st? MR. NEALE: The August 21st minutes. There's some commentary by Mr. Dickson regarding Mr. Kamienicky's last appearance here. And there's an indication then that the board would look favorably if he passed the business and law portion, because I think that was the board's biggest concern was his ability to manage the business aspects of it. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Which he has done with a 78. I need a motion. MR. JOSLIN: Mr. Chairman, in light of what Mr. Crawford said regarding this gentleman, I'd make the motion that we grant this gentleman his license. MR. LLOYD: Second, Lloyd. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Before we vote, I need to make a statement. This man has taken this test 14 times. You're scheduled to take it again? MR. KAMIENICKY: Yes, I do. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: He has come from-- and this statement is for anyone else who may be looking at these minutes or watching. He came from a 43 on busi -- or a 38 on business and law up to a 78. And in his trade test, he -- what's the low, 46 points, 47? MR. NEALE: 43.3. MR. LLOYD: 43.3. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: 43.3 up to a 68 point-- MR. KAMIENICKY: Three. Page 23 November 20, 2002 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: -- 68.3. And he's still going to take it again. It is a painting license, which we know they have problems with questions that don't pertain to painting. The reason I'm saying this is in the last year we have been lambasted with people asking us to make exceptions from people that haven't passed the business and law or the trade, and we've been seeing scores of 38 and 43. And I just want it to be known that this board is not going to approve licenses like that. He is the exception. The only way we have to test an individual that we haven't -- that we don't know is by the testing. So if anybody thinks this is going to open the door for others to ask for exceptions, you need to meet this criteria. I have a motion on the board. All those in favor? MS. RODGERS: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. CRAWFORD: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LLOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You got your license. MR. KAMIENICKY: Thank you very much, Board. I appreciate it. MR. BARTOE: Mr. Kamienicky, as Mr. Dickson stated earlier, you will not be able to come into our building until tomorrow to finish everything up. MR. KAMIENICKY: Okay, thank you. MR. CRAWFORD: Just one more point of clarification. I don't think this board or the county needs for you to take that test again. You may want to do it for your own personal reasons, but we don't need it, do we-- Page 24 November 20, 2002 MR. BARTOE: I believe you probably have already paid the fee for that next test. MR. KAMIENICKY: Not yet. MR. BARTOE: Not yet? MR. CRAWFORD: So it's entirely up to you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's up to you, but I mean, I'm proud of you. MR. KAMIENICKY: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I think you'll be an asset to this county. We're thrilled to have you. MR. JOSLIN: Just one more point of advice. Don't build any fireplaces. MR. KAMIENICKY: I won't. Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I hope you do well. MR. KAMIENICKY: Thanks. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Brenda Denton, are you here? Would you come forward? I need to have you sworn in, please. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you're requesting that we waive the exam for a masonry license? MS. DENTON: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Would you tell us why. MS. DENTON: Well, I already -- I have my certificate of competency in Lee County. I have my Lee County occupational license. I also have my City of Cape Coral occupational license and Sanibel.occupational license. And I would like to do some work in Collier County also. So actually what I'm requesting is a Collier County occupational license. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: MS. DENTON: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: You have occupational licenses? My granddaughters can get Page 25 November 20, 2002 occupational licenses. MS. DENTON: No, I have my certificate of competency -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Oh, okay. MS. DENTON: -- from Lee County. That's where I took the test. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Where is that? I'm not seeing it. Fire away, guys. MR. NEALE: She does show a currently valid Lee County masonry license, certificate of competency. MR. BARTOE: If I may? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes, Mr. Bartoe? MR. BARTOE: I think what office staff was looking at here is that she took the masonry exam and scored an 80 and got licensed in Lee County and -- correct me if I'm wrong, Ma'am. And if you look at the page after that, the business and law was included in the exam, where we require a separate business and law test. And I think office staff was looking at this that she has not taken the business and law test, therefore, they are unable to license her. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But that's the way they did it in 1991. MR. LLOYD: Well, isn't -- isn't the business and law then accepted because of the score of 80? It's included in the exam-- if it's inclusive at that point in time, she's grandfathered in, isn't she? MR. NEALE: I'd have to say from my reading of this, I can understand staff's query, but I would think that she's already passed an exam that is greater than the exam Collier County requires. Because it was a masonry exam that she passed, which we don't even -- Collier County doesn't even require a masonry exam, we just require a business and law and experience. MR. CRAWFORD: And what are our rules on reciprocity with Lee County, outside of that? MR. NEALE: The board has typically not in the past -- there is no direct reciprocity; however, typically the board has recognized Page 26 November 20, 2002 other licenses, if they were valid, current, and the person had taken the appropriate exams. MR. BARTOE: I agree with you, Mr. Neale. I think what the office staff was looking at is our ordinance reads you must pass the three-hour test and a two-hour business and law. But I feel that staff should be able to come up with a ruling that we wouldn't have to have this person before this board if we feel they're fine with a valid license already in Lee County. And I'd like the board's opinion on that so that I can take it back to office staff. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Let's do a motion first. MR. CRAWFORD: Well, on this case specifically, I think we're all in agreement that we can move forward with this license. I would make that motion. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I have a motion that the license would be approved. MR. JOSLIN: I second it, Joslin. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Second. All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. CRAWFORD: Aye. MS. RODGERS: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. MR. LLOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you are approved, by the way. ! understand why county was having a problem. They were following the letter of the law. But I would say to Maggie and the ladies there, who do a wonderful job, that in cases like this where the business and law was incorporatdd, and especially a score like hers, and she has Lee County, she has Vero Beach and all of the others, and her credit report is wonderful, I think in the future that they can go ahead and approve these. Page 27 November 20, 2002 Do you all agree? MR. BARTOE: At least let the supervisor make a decision. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, give it to the supervisor and take it from there. MR. BARTOE: Thank you. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Sorry you had to go through the trouble with a little technicality, but we wish you well in Collier. You know tomorrow you can get this done. MS. DENTON: Okay. Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Antonio Rojas, come forward, please. I need to have you sworn in. (Speaker was duly sworn.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Hablo English? MR. ROJAS: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And you're here for a request to waive exam for tile and marble license? MR. ROJAS: Yes, sir. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. And tell us why. MR. ROJAS: Because I not pass the test. I tried three times. I have English problems, that's my problem. I tried to pass the test three times and I can't. That's why. I know the job, I did for 35 years, but I can't pass it. MR. CRAWFORD: Spanish is your primary language? MR. ROJAS: Yes. MR. CRAWFORD: I think we just learned today that Experior offers Spanish translators. And this board can't approve test scores as low as yours. And I think the issue may be the language barrier. My recommendation is that Mr. Rojas get with staff and coordinate a Spanish translation exam. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Comprenda? MR. ROJAS: I guess I didn't-- Page 28 November 20, 2002 CHAIRMAN DICKSON: MR. ROJAS: No? Why? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: MR. ROJAS' I'm too old? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No, no. Bajo. Too low. MR. ROJAS: I know. And I don't think I pass the test, but -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Spanish -- MR. ROJAS' Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: MR. ROJAS: Oh, really? These test scores, no approve. Too low. -- interpreters are available. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yes. You need to get a request for the Spanish interpreter to take the test again. MR. ROJAS: Okay. So where? I cannot-- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Experior. MR. ROJAS: Experior. MS. RODGERS: Excuse me, I have a question to Mr. Rojas. You did not use an interpreter to -- MR. ROJAS: I never use. MS. RODGERS: Would you feel an interpreter would make the difference in your ability to pass this, or is it more of-- MR. ROJAS: A conversation with -- what I see in the books, I don't see nothing to relate that. You know, that's why I'm here. Just checking out my report, pay everything, and I think it's okay, but to understand the books, find the questions. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But your highest score is 36. MR. ROJAS: Yes. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: No way. No way. MS. KELLER: (At which time, Ms. Keller began speaking in Spanish.) THE COURT REPORTER: Excuse me, I can't write in Spanish. MS. KELLER: I was just going to tell him that they want him Page 29 November 20, 2002 to use a translator, to try the test again with a translator. (At which time, Ms. Keller translated the preceding sentence in Spanish.) MS. KF, LLER: He said he understood in English. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I need a motion on this request. MR. JOSLIN: I make the motion that we at this time deny the license to Mr. Rojas, due to the circumstances of the test scores being too low, and that we recommend that he retake the test again, using an interpreter that can help him possibly go forward and pass the test. MR. CRAWFORD: Second, Crawford. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Any discussion? All those in favor? MS. KELLER: Aye. MS. RODGERS: Aye. MR. CRAWFORD: Aye. MR. JOSLIN: Aye. MR. LLOYD: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. Opposed? (No response.) CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Rojas, you have to get better scores. MR. ROJAS: Okay. Thanks. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay? Four times. MR. ROJAS: Four times? CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, ocho (sic) mas. Okay? Good scores. MR. LLOYD: This is related to that for a moment. He took it in 2000, he took it again two years later. Nothing happened in 2001. No attempt was made in 2001 -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Right. MR. LLOYD: -- to take the test, which bothered me a little bit. Page 30 November 20, 2002 Not to the point where I was going to bring it up. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, I noticed here in one of the last test scores, it's in parentheses special. I got the impression -- I've never seen that before. MR. JOSLIN: Maybe he did already. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I think he may have had an interpreter. MS. KELLER: Maybe he did worse. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: But he did fit the case of what we were talking about, a 36 and a 30 and a 28 on business and law is not going to get approved by this board. MR. NEALE: Right. I mean, the board does have the ability to -- this is more for the new members than anything else. The board does have the ability under the ordinance that if it determines, from the evidence presented, that testing would be superfluous for an applicant because they've had a lot of experience on the trade or have practiced it elsewhere, then the board can grant a license on that basis. But this board has been very reluctant to do so, and has only done it in cases where there's been a very significant body of evidence presented that this person has been doing this trade in an efficient and businesslike manner for a number of years. And I've been representing the board for what, five or six years now, and I can only remember maybe four or five instances where this board has seen fit to do that. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And having -- for your benefit, especially since you're consumers' representatives, I've been on this board I think 13 or 14 years -- well, you're only supposed to serve two terms, but when my first two terms were up, my replacement unfortunately passed away, and I was asked to re-serve, and I'm still on my second term. But what they have to give us is credit reports and letters of experience, and then three references. Page 31 November 20, 2002 In the past -- those references, you don't know who they're coming from. In the past we've had situations where we have called the people that supposedly wrote those letters to find out that they didn't write them. Some we found out weren't even in the construction industry. So we have no viable way of knowing that they know what they're doing without the test. MR. NEALE: There actually was a change made in the past few years. It is now if they're going to put forth that they have had past construction experience, it's actually now an affidavit that's signed in front of a notary. So at least it's a notarized statement that certifies that that person signed it and did take an oath to the information that they put forth. So -- but theoretically they could be charged with perjury if they made a false statement. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And I always -- to consumers, do you want someone that has a 30 and a 28 out operating in the public? I don't think so. So that's the attitude we've always taken. You saw the exception before him. That gentleman's going to be great for this county. And that's why we're here, is to protect the citizens of Collier County. And we take it very seriously. MS. RODGERS: But you can take the test as many times as you choose to. I mean, he wasn't the exception at the end of the day because he actually did pass the test, he met the qualifications. But he was an exception to keep taking the test, sure. You can take it as many times as you need to to bring your scores to acceptable level to get the license. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Exactly. MS. KELLER: But he did pass one of them, the painting. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, we have a higher standard than other counties. Most counties require a passing grade of 70. Collier County requires 75. Now, we made an exception in July, a roofing contractor from Miami who had a business and law score of like 85 and had his Page 32 November 20, 2002 technical trade test of 73. He had been in the business for 20 years in Miami, impeccable credit report. He came over here and asked for an exception. We granted the exception. We're not hardline, but we have -- we still just have to be careful. Okay. Mr. Carter never showed up, so old -- old business? Is there any? MR. NEALE: Just I think we all ought to congratulate Mr. Crawford, who is the new president of the Collier Building Industry Association. MR. CRAWFORD: Thank you very much. MR. JOSLIN: Oh, no. MR. CRAWFORD: We'll get Dickson Roofing to sign up one day yet. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I knew that was coming. Congratulations, you have a busy year in front of you. I hope you financially survive the time you have to give. MR. CRAWFORD: Me, too. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Of course WCI should do well. They're a little bit solid. Public hearings have been canceled. Any reports? MR. BARTOE: Staff has none. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I thought we were going to be here all day. This is wonderful. And when we get public hearings, those take a long time. MS. KELLER: MR. BARTOE: two public hearings. I read about it. You can thank Mr. Ossorio. He handled the And unfortunately, if he wasn't able to, we wouldn't be able to have the hearings today; he had to leave town today due to a death in the family. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Mr. Ossorio does a wonderful job. Two items that I do have for discussion. Number one, Mr. Carter, a roofing contractor that we had before this board in -- was Page 33 November 20, 2002 July or August? MR. NEALE: August. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: ago. MR. LLOYD: Mr. Carter died about four weeks The gentleman that -- oh, wow. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And the fine was never paid. I have talked numerous times to the homeowners and what recourse they can do, and of course the only thing we can advise them is to hire an attorney and see if they can make a claim against the estate. But obviously there will be no more monitoring. We did do a little investigation on Mr. Carter afterwards and found numerous jobs that had not been done with a permit; jobs that did have permits that didn't have inspections. So obviously it's not necessary to bring up before this board again. Secondly, the tile contractor from Miami, what was Marla's last name? MR. NEALE: Hottensteimer (phonetic). CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Hottensteimer. MR. LLOYD: Where they kept popping up -- CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Right, we issued a $3,000 judgment on him and gave him 60 days to pay it. That has not been paid yet. In fact, it's over 90 days. It was the ruling of this board, if I'm not mistaken, that if he didn't pay the fine, his permit privileges and working privileges in Collier County would be revoked. MR. BARTOE: I believe that's correct. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Would you make sure that that happens? MR. BARTOE: Yes, sir. I think Mr. Nonnenmacher's already taken care of that. I will double check. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: And I've talked to her and again advised her that she may want to take that to small claims court or something of that nature. But I don't believe that gentleman lives in Page 34 November 20, 2002 Collier County. MR. BARTOE: I don't believe he did. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: So enforcing a judgment may be quite difficult. Besides that, our next meeting is Wednesday, the Wednesday before Christmas, which would be the 18th. And we've instructed Mr. Bartoe that unless we have pressing business or a hearing that needs to take place, that that meeting may be canceled, being that it's the week before Christmas. If it's just a couple of second entities, we'll postpone them into January. But that remains to be seen. It will be your decision. MR. BARTOE: Okay. And I'll have -- a week before I'll have office staff telephone everyone and advise them. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Yeah, still go ahead and calendar it, but be flexible. Anybody else have anything? MR. BARTOE: Let me quickly pass this list around. And if there's any corrections after the meetings, someone let me know. MR. NEALE: If I may, to the board, I'm just looking at the order on Mr. Popa, who is the one that -- the Ottenstein case. And his license was to be immediately suspended 90 days after, should he not pay. And the other thing that was in the order is that he was to be summoned before the board at its next regularly scheduled meeting. And the board at that time was going to see if-- that was going to take evidence to see if he was going to have additional sanctions imposed against him. So I would say that it would be appropriate for the board to direct staff to call Mr. Popa back in front of this board. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: I agree, Mr. Bartoe. Would you serve notice to have him here before this board again? My attitude is if he's not going to pay a fine, as issued by this board, or restitution, as it was in her case,-then I want to make sure he doesn't work in Collier Page 35 November 20, 2002 County 'again. MR. BARTOE: That will be done. MR. NEALE: That was case 2002-04. MR. BARTOE: I'm sorry? MR. NEALE: 2002-04. MR. CRAWFORD: While we're chatting here, I had just a quick question. Ms. Keller is our consumer rep, and on our chart it says City of Naples representative. I was just curious, is that a requirement? MR. BARTOE: It's part of the interlocal agreement between the county and the city. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: It's been there before, but in the past, City of Naples hasn't chosen to send a representative. And this year they did, which we're thrilled. MS. KELLER: I had to go through the interview. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Well, this board also handles City of Naples cases, and our investigators handle the cases, so no, it's nice to have you. MR. BARTOE: And it also should be noted that we have a very similar local agreement with the City of Marco Island, and Mr. Baril's on this board from Marco Island. And I understand that we got a phone call in the office after I got here, and I was informed that he couldn't make it today because he had a break-in at one of his construction sites. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Okay. Anything further? I will keep Mr. Carta's packet in case we hear it next month. I think that's the only thing we need to hang onto. Barring anything else, do I hear the last motion? MR. JOSLIN: Motion to adjourn. MR. CRAWFORD: Second. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: All those in favor? MR. JOSLIN: Aye. Page 36 November 20, 2002 MR. LLOYD: Aye. MR. CRAWFORD: Aye. MS. RODGERS: Aye. MS. KELLER: Aye. CHAIRMAN DICKSON: Aye. Merry Christmas and happy Thanksgiving to you. There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 10:07 a.m. COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS LICENSING BOARD LES DICKSON, CHAIRMAN Transcript prepared on behalf of Gregory Court Reporting Service, Inc., by Cherie' R. Nottingham. Page 37