CEB Minutes 11/18/2002 RNovember 18, 2002
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE
CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD
Naples, Florida
November 18, 2002
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Code Enforcement Board
in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein,
met on this date at 9:00 a.m. in REGULAR SESSION in Building
"F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the
following members present:
CHAIRMAN:
Peter Lehmann
Sheri Barnett
Clifford Flegal
Gerald Lefebvre
George Ponte
G. Christopher Ramsey
ALSO PRESENT:
Jean Rawson, Attorney for the Board
Michelle Arnold, Code Enforcement Director
Jennifer Belpedio, Assistant County Attorney
Shanelle Hilton, Code Enforcement Coordinator
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CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD OF COLLIER COUNTY, FLORIDA
AGENDA
Date: November 18, 2002 at 9:00 o'clock a.m.
Location: 3301 E. Tamiami Tr., Naples, Florida, Collier County Government Center,
Administrative Bldg, 3rd Floor
NOTE: ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF
THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM
RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THE TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE
UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED. NEITHER COLLIER COUNTY NOR THE CODE ENFORCEMENT
BOARD SHALL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR PROVIDING THIS RECORD.
2.
3.
4.
ROLL CALL
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
APPROVAL OF MINUTES - October 24, 2002 Minutes
PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. MOTIONS
B. HEARINGS
BCC vs. Maxwell of Naples Corporation and Jacob Nagar Registered Agent
Location: Sapphire Lakes, Tract L-4
Alleged Violation: No littoral plants or maintenance
BCC vs. Maxwell of Naples Corporation and Jacob Nagar, Registered Agent
Location: Sapphire Lakes, Tract L-3
Alleged Violation: No littoral plants or maintenance
BCC vs. Joseph and Ida Cannistraci, Rick Johnson Individually
R.A. Johnson Inc. d/b/a Rick Johnson Auto & Tire, Richard A.
Johnson, Sr., Registered Agent and Richard Johnson as President
of R.A. Johnson Inc., d/b/a Rick Johnson Auto & Tire
Case continued from October 24, 2002
Location: Golden Gate
Alleged Violation: Four landscape buffer trees were required to be planted a
result of another Code Enforcement case, only one was found to be surviving
and it is not in good shape. Two Carrotwood and two loquat trees along Green
Blvd have been damaged by excessive pruning and still exhibit rot underneath
new growth and the required landscape hedge is not present along Green Blvd
and 40th Terrace adjacent to residential properties.
BCC vs. Gerald K. Davidson
Location: Golden Gate Estates
Alleged Violation: Repeat offender of illegal land use and the repeated storage of
inoperable ancVor vehicles with invalid license tags on property not approved for
such use.
CEB NO. 2002-027
CEB NO. 2002-032
CEB NO. 2002-026
CEB NO. 2002-033
NEW BUSINESS
A. Request for Reduction/Abatement of Fines
1. BCC vs. Shad Davis Inc.
B. Request for Imposition of Fines/Liens
1. BCC vs. Carl Puchhas
C. Request for Foreclosure
1. BCC vs. Goings
D. Others: Request for Name Change
Collier Enterprises Realty Group, Inc. appealing the Planning Official's denial of a
Name Change request for it's Shopping Center located at the Southwest corner of
the realignment of Rattlesnake Hammock Road and Tamiami Trail East.
OLD BUSINESS
A. Affidavits of Compliance
1. BCC vs. Carl Puchhas
2. BCC vs. Ronald Gleichman
B. Affidavits of Non-Compliance
1. BCC vs. Charles H. Goings
CEB NO. 2002-009
CEB NO. 2002-018
CEB NO. 2001-076
CEB NO. 2002-018
CEB NO. 2002-020
CEB NO. 2001-076
Se
REPORTS
1. Ellen T. Chadwell, Assistant County Attorney will be providing a Quarterly
Foreclosure Report
COMMENTS
10.
NEXT MEETING DATE
December 16, 2002
ADJOURN
November 18, 2002
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: I'd like to call the Code
Enforcement Board to order, please.
Please note, any person who decides to appeal a decision of this
board will need a record of the proceedings pertaining thereto and,
therefore, may need to insure that a verbatim record of the
proceedings is made, which record includes the testimony and
evidence upon which the appeal is to be based. Neither Collier
County nor the Code Enforcement Board shall be responsible for
providing this record.
May we have the roll call, please.
MS. HILTON: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. For the
record, Shanelle Hilton, CEB coordinator. Peter Lehmann?
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Present.
MS. HILTON: Clifford Flegal?
MR. FLEGAL: Present.
MS. HILTON: George Ponte?
MR. PONTE: Here.
MS. HILTON: Sheri Barnett?
MS.
MS.
MR.
MS.
BARNETT: Here.
HILTON: Gerald Lefebvre?
LEFEBVRE: Here.
HILTON: Roberta Dusick has an excused absence, Rhona
Saunders has an excused absence, and Kathryn Godfrey has an
excused absence.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: As we have four permanent
members and one alternate, the alternate member will be voting
today.
If we can move on to the approval of the agenda, please.
MS. ARNOLD: Okay, we have -- for the record, Michelle
Arnold, Code Enforcement Director.
We have a request to move Item 5(D), a request for name
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November 18, 2002
change, above the public hearing items.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: You'd like to proceed with that
first?
MS. ARNOLD: Sure.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Okay. Any comments from the
board?
MR. FLEGAL: I'll wait.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Any other alterations?
Hearing none, all those in favor of the amended agenda, signify
by saying aye.
Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Hearing none, motion carries.
I'd like to move to the approval of the minutes. This is for the
October 24, 2002 minutes.
MS. BARNETT: Mr. Chairman, I just had one slight
correction, it's the spelling of my name. There's only one R. It's
S-H-E-R-I.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Okay. Any other changes or
amendments to the minutes? Hearing none, I would entertain a
motion to approve the minutes as amended.
aye.
MR. FLEGAL: So moved.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN:
MR. PONTE: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN:
Second?
All those in favor, signify by saying
Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Hearing none, motion carries.
We'll move on to Item 5(D), request for name change.
(At which time, Mr. G. Christopher Ramsey enters the room.)
MS. ARNOLD: For the record, Michelle Arnold. This item is
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November 18, 2002
something new that's being brought to the Code Enforcement Board.
You should all have a copy of the first page of Ordinance 99-76,
which is the ordinance for street numbering and naming of
subdivisions and projects. And along with that, you should have
page 14 of that ordinance, section 17, which identifies the appeal
process. And it names the Collier County Code Enforcement Board
as the governing body that would hear appeals to decisions made for
name changes.
We have Mr. Utter here from Collier Enterprises, and he's the
one that's making the request, so he'll go ahead and make his
presentation. Then we also have the staff from the community
development division that has been the one that conducted the review
for the street name change.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Before we begin, if you'd like, sir,
I'd like to show on the record that Mr. Ramsey has joined us. And
Mr. Ramsey would be a voting member as well.
MR. FLEGAL: Mr. Chairman, I need to ask a question, please.
I'm a little confused. I guess I'd best direct my question to Jean.
This ordinance on street numbering where the enforcement
board has decided, given authority or directed or whatever to hear
appeals, how does that relate to the ordinance establishing this
board? 'It does not give us that authority.
MS. RAWSON: This is a county ordinance, which gives you
more authority than the state ordinance does. But under this county
ordinance that was passed back in '99, you clearly have appellate
procedure, as the Collier County Code Enforcement Board shall hear
and decide appeals from the requirements of this ordinance when
there's a disagreement of an interpretation, requirement or
determination made by the administrative official.
So you can have more powers under the local ordinance than
you do under the state statute.
MR. FLEGAL: Okay.
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November 18, 2002
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: So I'm to assume that we have gone
through the process where the respondent has sought administrative
enactment or enforcement, has been denied, is now coming before us
as a method of granting a waiver from that particular ordinance.
MS. RAWSON: Well, since the -- your agenda calls this the
appeal from the planning officials' denial of the name change request,
I think you can safely assume that that's correct.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: And just again, just to be clear, you
are saying that we in this present condition have the authority in this
very specific case to grant a waiver of the ordinance?
MS. RAWSON: We have the authority under Ordinance 99-76.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Okay.
MS. ARNOLD: You're granting not a waiver of the ordinance,
but you're making a determination whether or not that decision
should be modified. Decision of the administrative official.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Correct. I just want to be very clear
that our capacity is not to grant waivers to ordinances or anything of
that nature. What we are doing here is granting -- or we are basically
providing a determination for the case itself, not --
MS. RAWSON: That's correct. You're determining whether or
not you think that the planning officials' denial was warranted.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Okay. And-- go ahead.
MR. FLEGAL: My only question is, is the denial, I guess, for
lack of a better word, by the planning board, is that this memo that's
given to it? That's all there is?
MS. ARNOLD: Well, that's the memo that was just prepared
and presented to the board. But we have staff here to give you a full
presentation as to their determination, you know, what went into their
decision-making process.
MR. FLEGAL: Yeah, but there's no other paperwork like
minutes from a meeting that they had with --
MS. ARNOLD: It's an administrative process. It's not a board
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November 18, 2002
meeting. It's something that is done by staff in the community
development building.
MR. FLEGAL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Ms. Rawson, procedurally we
normally start with the county presenting its case. Is there any
problem with us starting with the respondent in this case?
MS. RAWSON: Maybe it would be easier if the county started,
because the county can give you the background about what
happened with the planning officials' denial. And I think we should
probably stick to the same format, because I believe the county can
give you the background before you make your decision. Then you
can hear from the respondent, Mr. Utter.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: As this is not a hearing, do we need
to swear the witnesses in?
MS. RAWSON: Yes. It is a hearing. It's an appeal.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Okay, I hear you.
If we can do that. And do we have a number of witnesses that
are willing to testify, or is it just one?
MR. UTTER: Just one from our side.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: From the respondent's side.
From the county's side, how many?
MS. ARNOLD: Just one.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Just for expediency, if we could
swear the witnesses in right now. All the witnesses, please, if you
could stand and state your name.
(All witnesses were duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Thank you.
And Ms. Arnold, if you could proceed with the county's side.
MS. ARNOLD: We have Peggy Jarrell, who's the
administrative supervisor in the addressing department here on the
county's side.
Peggy, if you want to -- in fact, if you could just walk the board
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November 18, 2002
through, you know, how you got this particular request and then the
decision-making process.
MS. JARRELL: As it stands right now, we have five
Hammocks in Collier County. The ordinance states there should
only be five, starting with the same name. We have six names
starting with Shops in the county. And I'm sure that there's more
projects starting with Shops. That's all that I have record of with the
SDP process.
The Hammocks -- out of the Hammocks, there are four in the
East Naples Fire Department alone. There is one Shop, The Shops at
Eagle Creek, which is also in East Naples Fire Department. It was
under my opinion that that is for 9-1-1 criteria. There should only be
five for emergency response.
MS. ARNOLD: Peggy, can you just express for the board, you
know, how you got the request, how you're interpreting the
ordinance.
So when this request came to you, what was that whole process?
MS. JARRELL: When they wanted to change the name of the
shopping plaza to The Shops at Hammock Cove, it was done through
a sign permit. The addressing department looks at all sign permits
for the purpose of duplication. That was denied, because of over-used
list with the word Hammock. And that's how I arrived -- they didn't
submit an SDP by the name of Hammock. The plat was recorded as
Sable Bay. The shopping center was through an SDP process of CDC
Shopping Center.
So there was no mention throughout the planning department
through the review process of anything being called Hammock Cove.
MS. ARNOLD: Okay, Peggy, what criteria do you use? What
part of the ordinance do you use to make a determination of whether
or not something is duplicated or over-used?
MS. JARRELL: Through the ordinance of 99-76.
MS. ARNOLD: Well, what specifically does the ordinance
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November 18, 2002
say?
MS. JARRELL: Only five variations shall be permitted
county-wide for names beginning with the same word, streets, like
Coconut Palm Drive, Coconut Cove Drive, Coconut Wind Drive,
Coconut Sway Drive, Coconut Fawn Drive. Projects: Marsh Estates,
Marsh Village, Marsh Pond Community, Marsh Walk, Marsh Strand.
The word Naples is the only one that's an exception to this rule.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: For the record, you're referring to
Section 13(D)(2)--
MS. JARRELL: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: -- of Ordinance 99-76, correct?
MS. JARRELL: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Thank you. Please proceed.
MS. ARNOLD: Peggy has also provided you all a list. Could
you explain for the board what that list is?
And did you provide it to the respondent?
MS. HILTON: Yes.
MS. JARRELL: These are names that are throughout the
county that are already over-used. So any projects that go through
the planning department will reject it if they start with those names,
for 9-1-1 purposes.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Michelle, are you looking to enter
this as evidence?
MS. ARNOLD: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Is there any other documents you
wish to enter as evidence?
MS. ARNOLD: The memorandum and the list of over-used
project names.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Do we have that in front of us, or
no?
MS. ARNOLD: You should have the memorandum and
attachment of the ordinance and the applicable pages, as well as the
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November 18, 2002
letter from Collier Land Development, Inc.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Okay. So I have over-used project
-- over-used project names. MS. ARNOLD: Yes.
MR. FLEGAL: I don't have any letter from Collier.
MS. HILTON: It's in the package at the end.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: I have an over-used project names,
correct?
MS. ARNOLD: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: I have a memorandum to the Code
Enforcement Board from Peggy Jarrell, dated November 13th.
MS. ARNOLD: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN:
MS. ARNOLD: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN:
Is that the letter?
We have a copy of Ordinance
99-76. I have a select number of pages here. We will enter those.
Is there any other document you wish to enter into evidence?
MS. ARNOLD: That's the only set of documents that we have.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: I would entertain a motion then to
enter these as Composite Exhibit A.
MR. PONTE: So moved.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN:
MS. BARNETT: Second.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN:
aye.
Do I hear a second?
All those in favor, signify by saying
Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Motion carries.
Thank you. Please proceed.
MS. ARNOLD: I have no other questions, unless you all have
questions of Ms. Jarrell.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN:
Yes, I think we do. I'll open it to
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November 18, 2002
MS.
MR.
MS.
MR.
county?
any of the board members first, please.
MR. RAMSEY: I have just one question. When you said you
had this list, am I to assume that even if a project started with one of
these names but what was not in an area that contained the rest of the
names of that sort, for example, East Naples we have four places
starting with Shop or Hammock, if the other place seeking to start
with Shop or Hammock was in North Naples, would that be allowed,
or simply by virtue of the fact that it has started --
JARRELL: If it's Hammock, I wouldn't approve it.
RAMSEY: Then it would not be approved.
JARRELL: No.
RAMSEY: Regardless of the position it was situated in the
MS. JARRELL: Correct, because it's within Collier County.
MR. FLEGAL: Ms. Jarrell, similar type question. When you
read the ordinance, the one which you read the section of, the
statement is, on item three, extreme caution must be taken to prohibit
any posSible similarity of building or project names along the same
roadway --
MS. JARRELL: Yes, sir.
MR. FLEGAL: On this particular roadway, is there any other
item named, you know, Shops at Hammock Cove?
MS. JARRELL: Not Shops at Hammock Cove.
MR. FLEGAL: Thank you.
MS. JARRELL: But we have Hammock along the same
roadway for 9-1-1.
MR. FLEGAL: Okay. Again, your ordinance, which you read
item two, states first sentence, only five variations shall be permitted
county-wide for names beginning with the same word. MS. JARRELL: Or similar sounding.
MR. FLEGAL: I don't see that in item two. Show me where
that is. Item two. It's very specific. It says only five variations, and
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November 18, 2002
then it says same word.
road?
MS. JARRELL:
MR. FLEGAL:
Cove.
MS. JARRELL:
MR. FLEGAL:
Are there any same word Shops on the same
Shops at Eagle Creek.
Eagle Creek's a long way from Hammock
Well, it's in the same fire district.
It says same word, so -- okay.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Well, I wish to bring to my
colleague's attention, the specific section you're referencing is
governed by a county-wide zoning, so it doesn't have to be on the
same street. It would be anything in the county.
MR. FLEGAL: I'm sorry, it says, item three, prohibit any
possible similarity of building or project names along the same
roadway. Very specific. Doesn't say in the county, it says same
roadway.
MS. JARRELL: It says no street, development, building or
subdivision shall bear the same name or similar sounding name as
another development, building, subdivision or street in the
incorporated or unincorporated area of Collier County.
MS. BARNETT: Except in the following special conditions.
MR. FLEGAL: Okay, keep going. What's the last part of that?
MS. JARRELL: Except in the following special conditions.
MR. FLEGAL: Uh-uh. Big word. Says except.
MS. JARRELL: A street within a major community can bear
the same name three times within that same community, as long as
it's not over-used.
MR. FLEGAL: I understand that. And again, it says except in
the following special conditions. And item (D)(3) says you can't
have similar -- possible similarity of building or project names on the
same roadway. And my question was, on the same roadway is there
Shops at Hammock Cove already somewhere?
MS. JARRELL: No, sir.
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November 18, 2002
MR. FLEGAL: Okay, thank you.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: I think we're getting a little bit too
detailed in the code. If you read the first paragraph of the code, it
basically is saying that listen, here's the rules: No street,
development, building or subdivision shall bear the same name or
similar sounding name as another development, building, subdivision
or street in the incorporated or unincorporated areas of Collier
County, except for the following conditions.
So everything listed below is an exception to that rule. The rule
is very broad. The exceptions are relatively narrow. The exception
allows for only five variations on a county-wide basis, period. I don't
see how the issues that you're raising bring up any loophole on that
basis, as far as I'm concerned.
Any other comments from the board?
Any other questions for the witness?
MR. PONTE: Is your major concern the response by the East
Naples Fire Department?
MS. JARRELL: Yes, sir.
MR. PONTE: And how many of these similar sounding names
are within the response area for the fire department? MS. JARRELL: Five.
MR. PONTE: Total of five of both categories or five of each?
MS. JARRELL: Five. Four in the Hammock and one in the
Shops.
MR. PONTE: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Any other questions for the
witness?
Thank you.
Is it Mr. Utter?
MR. UTTER: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: If you'd like to proceed.
MR. UTTER: For the record, my name is Pat Utter. I work
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November 18, 2002
with Collier Enterprises.
I'll tell you just briefly how we ended up where we are today.
We submitted our name for the shopping center -- or we were
required to submit a name over a year and a half ago when we
initially submitted our site development plan. At that time we did
not have a name selected, but it was a requirement, so we ended up
placing -- the CDC Shopping Center was the name -- CDC just
stands for Collier Development Corporation -- knowing that we
would change the name in the future.
Once we had a name selected, about three months ago, we
submitted a sign design for permitting, and it was turned down by
Peggy because of the -- because of the different names that had some
similarity. There seems to be five or six of each of the different
names.
So from there we asked Peggy if there was an appeal process.
She said we could go to the head of the planning department. There's
a lady named Margaret; I don't know her last name. But we asked
Margaret, and she initially said yes, that she would allow our name,
and then the head of the -- the head of development services then
said no. In the ordinance only your board can overturn questions that
regard the name -- similar type sounding names.
Let me show you first what we're asking for and then I'll try to
explain why we think it's reasonable to ask for this decision.
MS. RAWSON: There is a packet in your-- there's a bunch of
materials in your packet in the back that we probably should
introduce into evidence for the respondent.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Thank you.
Mr. Utter, what I have, and if you'd verify that this is the
information you wish to enter. I have a letter from the Collier Land
Development Corporation dated November 12th; is that correct? We
have a graphic; is that part of that? Okay. Another graphic. Third
graphic.
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November 18, 2002
MR. UTTER: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: All right. And that's the package
you wish to enter?
MR. UTTER: Is there an aer-- there should have been an aerial
photo.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: I apologize, yes, there is an aerial.
And I've gotten it lost in my package.
All right. And you wish to enter that into evidence as
Respondent's Exhibit A?
MR. UTTER: The only addition, I have a large plan that I could
not produce for all of you that shows the different names, where they
are within the county. We stated in the letter we were going to bring
that. I brought it with me. It shows where the fire substation is, and
it tries to show you graphically where these different names are.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Okay.
The comment that my colleague was just referring to is if we
entered that as evidence as a package, you'd have to leave that. I'm
not so sure you want to do that. But you can certainly present --
MR. UTTER: As long as I can show it to you.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Yeah, you can certainly present it
in your testimony. Again, I don't mean to guide you, but is this what
you were trying to enter as --
MR. UTTER: That's what I'm trying to enter, yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: I would take a motion -- or
entertain a motion that we enter this as Respondent's Composite
Exhibit A, the evidence package.
MR. PONTE: So moved.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN:
MR. FLEGAL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN:
Ponte, second from Mr. Flegal.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
Do I hear a second?
Okay, we have a motion from Mr.
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November 18, 2002
Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Hearing none, motion carries.
Mr. Utter, if you'd proceed then. And I apologize for the delay
for housekeeping.
MR. UTTER: No problem.
This is the large aerial that you have. It's -- this one's slightly
differently; very similar, though. This is a graphic of our ownership
within the East Naples area. It's a project formerly known as Sable
Bay. It's a 2,600-acre development. And we're currently pursuing a
commercial development which is in the white area, which is at the
comer of Thommason Drive and U.S. 41. And it's approximately
100 acres. We currently have a Publix that's scheduled for a CO this
week and will be opening in about two or three weeks.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Mr. Utter, you might want to place
it up on the board, just to make it convenient for yourself.
MR. UTTER: Okay. This is just to show -- I brought this
graphic in just to show the size of our residential project.
What we're asking for is to name the shopping center The Shops
at Hammock Cove and to place a sign on the comer of each of--
where Thommason Drive intersects U.S. 41 that says Hammock
Cove. And I provided the two signs that we'd like to add those
names on.
You have -- another graphic you have in your package shows
our commercial development. This is the -- it's just a sketch of what
it may look like in the future.
We have -- like I say, we have currently constructed the Publix
shopping center, which will be opening in a few weeks. And these
signs that you see, one of the pylon signs for Publix has been erected.
Currently it does not have a name on it. It's blank. And we'd like to
add The Shops at Hammock Cove to it.
And there's a sign at 41 here. There's also a sign here. Those
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November 18, 2002
are the two pylon signs.
The additional sign you see that says Hammock Cove with brick
is intended to be placed on the comer at U.S. 41 and Thommason
Drive.
Again, and then to touch on the ordinance briefly, it says that --
it does mention that these names, there can be exceptions, if they're
not on the same street. Our address is 4370 Thommason Drive, and
there are no Shops or Hammocks on Thommason Drive.
Beyond that, it talks about projects, and it says that there can't
be five named projects with similar sounding names.
And I'm going to show you a map now of where these projects
are that the county's given you a list of.
You may not be able to see the colors. The blue pins are
showing the word Shops. There's -- these are the Shops, the blue
down here. Our project is right here. This pink area is our project.
This red pin is where we're asking for the name for these two
different signs.
The white pins show what the county's calling projects with the
name Hammock. And the reason I say they call them projects, this is
the Hammock Commerce Center, which is a vacant piece of land.
There's absolutely nothing on it. There is some zoning, there's a
PUD approved on that that has the name Hammock in it, but there's
nothing existing there currently.
There's another project here, it's called Hammock of Naples. It's
a -- I have a photograph of that, which is -- it's a rundown old house
on 24 acres, and it has a big for sale sign on it. There's no active
structure on that at all at this time.
There's one project here that's an apartment complex, or maybe
a condominium. It's about 40 units. I have a picture of that as well.
And it is called The Hammocks, and it's on Rattlesnake-Hammock
Road.
The other Hammock that's mentioned is Hammock Station. I
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November 18, 2002
couldn't even get it on the map, it's so far out. It's towards
Everglades City. It's at the comer of U.S. 41 and State Road 29.
There are no signs, I am told. I'm not even sure what kind of project
it is, but it's -- I think it's more of a historical area rather than a
project.
Those are the four that are in the East Naples Fire District. But
within the East Naples Fire District, there are many substations. The
substatiOn that serves our project is shown here in Naples Manor in
the yellow pin. And within the Naples -- within that substation
district, the only two Hammocks are The Hammock of Naples, which
is the condominium project, and this -- I'm sorry, this is The
Hammocks. And then The Hammocks of Naples, which looks like a
rundown old tree farm with a single residence that doesn't seem to be
occupied. So there's only two Hammock projects within the
substation boundary. And one is -- it's hardly a project that I would
call.
If we want to talk about Shops, which I don't think shops is a
significant word, but there's a number of Shops in town, plazas,
there's a number of shopping centers. I'm sure if we tried to find
those, there's hundreds of names that are similar.
But typically in Shops, I think you're going to remember the
significant word, not Shops. It's going to be Waterside Shops or it's
going to be Eagle Creek or it's going to be a name that's significant.
You could say that "the" in front of developments is also a common
word, but obviously that's not going to make someone confused
about where to respond in an emergency call.
The other shops are -- there is a shop, Eagle Creek is here.
There's the Santa Barbara Shoppes. And there's a couple of other
Shops that are a long distance from our project.
And generally I think our thought is that the word project does
not define these other areas that are causing conflicts with the name
Hammock, and we think that's the significant word in our name. And
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November 18, 2002
that the word Shops, there's only one that's within our area, and we
don't think Shops is a -- something that would confuse a 9-1-1
response time.
Beyond that, the substation that serves us only has two within
our substation.
And then the last thing is the size of our development is -- it's
the largest commercial development in the area, being 100 acres.
And it's also attached to a major subdivision that will be built in the
future.
At this time, that's all the comments I have. I'll take some
questions, if you have any.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Any questions from the board?
MR. FLEGAL: You submitted two names, two graphics: The
Shops at Hammock Cove and then another one that just says
Hammock Cove. My understand -- are you asking for us to approve
both of those? Is this --
MR. UTTER: Correct. We'd like to place a sign at the comer
that says Hammock Cove, and then the pylon signs that are
immediately behind it would say The Shops at Hammock Cove.
That's what we're asking.
MR. FLEGAL: Okay. I--
MR. PONTE: Ms. Rawson, I need to ask you a question. Are
we -- we're certainly not in the business of naming shopping areas. It
is our business rather just to decide whether or not to overturn the
decision by the county in denying this request for names; is that
correct?
MS. RAWSON: That is correct. And the requested project
name, Shops at Hammock Cove, is the one that was denied.
MR. FLEGAL: I was going to ask the county. That's all I see,
so I don't know where the quote, unquote, just straight Hammock
Cove is coming from.
MR. UTTER: That was in our letter petitioning to the board, it
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November 18, 2002
was listed.
MR. FLEGAL: But this board has only been told that the denial
is the word Shops at Hammock Cove. So --
MR. UTTER: I think that's correct. Because I don't think there
has been a permit submitted for that name.
MR. FLEGAL: So --
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Ms. Rawson, let me ask you a real
quick question. In Ordinance 99-76, section 13, which is what we
have constantly been talking about, in subsection D of that we talk
about similar sounding (sic) shall be determined to -- using the
following parameters.
And to back up again, the main text of this section basically
states that no street, development, building or subdivision shall bear
the same name or similar sounding name as another development,
building, subdivision or street in the incorporated or unincorporated
area of Collier County, except in the following special conditions.
So everything we talk about now is an exception to that rule.
My question is under section D we have three items. Are (sic)
those items be considered in the context of"and" or "or"? In other
words, do I have to comply with each of those three conditions for
the exception to take precedence, or do I comply with only one of
those sections for it to take precedence?
MS. RAWSON: Because it says using the following
parameters, and parameters has an S on it, there is no "or" anywhere
in the language. So my interpretation would be that it would be all
three.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: So I must comply with all three in
order for the exception to be applicable.
MS. RAWSON: That would be my take, since you don't have
the word in the ordinance.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Okay. Any other questions from
the board?
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November 1 $, 2002
Okay, Mr. Utter, I'd like you to have a seat, 'if you would,
please, and I'll open it up for -- close the hearing portion and open it
up for board discussion.
MR. FLEGAL: I'd like to ask Ms. Rawson a question along the
line that you asked.
If all three items in D are to -- apply, I guess is maybe a bad
choice of word, but the only one I can think of. Item one talks about
roadways, so this isn't a roadway.
MS. RAWSON: No. What you're -- what item D there says is
you're going to decide whether or not it's similar sounding, and
you're going to use these parameters. The first one has to do with
roadways and the second one has to do with names, and the third one
has to do again with similarity of project names and building names.
So all three of those are not going to apply to one specific
instance. But what you're going to do in determining whether or not
-- this exception is something that you need to look at as you're going
to consider all of those parameters. This is not a roadway we're
talking about. So you're going to look at two and you're going to say
well, does it begin with the same word, and you're going to look at
three and say is it too similar to some other project along the same
roadway, as you pointed out earlier. MR. FLEGAL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Any other comments from the
board, or questions for the witnesses?
MS. ARNOLD: I think Jennifer Belpedio wants to ask Peggy
Jarrell a couple more questions, if she can.
MR. FLEGAL: We're reopening the hearing now?
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: We'll reopen the hearing section to
listen to this.
Mr. Utter, if you would like to cross-examine the witness or ask
any questions back, you have that opportunity.
MS. BELPEDIO: Jennifer Belpedio, assistant county attorney
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November 18, 2002
with the Collier County Attorney's Office.
Peggy, I just want to ask you a couple of questions for
clarification.
When you typically review the sign permit applications that are
forwarded to you from sign and permitting, do you pull any files or
do any research to determine the names that exist in the county? And
if so, what do you do?
MS. JARRELL: I will pull all projects that are starting with that
name to make sure that it isn't a duplication.
MS. BELPEDIO: How do you do that? Does your office keep
a running file of these items? MS. JARRELL: Yes.
MS. BELPEDIO: Did you pull the files for these particular
named places that you referenced in your memo? MS. JARRELL: Yes.
MS. BELPEDIO: Would you be able to tell me what The
Hammock at Lely is, what exactly that is?
MS. JARRELL: It's a condominium housing project.
MS. BELPEDIO: How about Hammock Bay at Marco Shores?
MS. JARRELL: That was Marco Shores, that subdivision.
They renamed it to Hammock Bay, which is a very large project.
MS. BELPEDIO: How about Hammock of Naples?
MS. JARRELL: That's a condominium. It's a small area and it
may not be utilized at this time, but if they wanted to come in and
rebuild it, that name's also reserved with that SDP.
MS. BELPEDIO: Tell me about the reserve process, what does
that mean?
MS. JARRELL: That's when they come in through an SDP
process and they come to my office to reserve that name for their
project. That's the reason why, Hammock Isle and Hammock Park
Commerce Center isn't built as of yet, but it is on our reservation for
when they do start their building process.
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November 18, 2002
MS. BELPEDIO: Could Collier Land Development have
reserved a name?
MS. JARRELL: Yes, they could have.
MS. BELPEDIO: How far in advance does one reserve a name
and is able to with the county?
MS. JARRELL: They usually try to do it before they even
submit the petition to the planning department. There's an addressing
checklist that has to be filled out by the petitioner and has to be
approved and signed by the addressing department, which that,
sometimes they list their names on that. We can't reject that
addressing checklist, but if we see a name that's going to be used for
that type of petition, we will make a note on that addressing
checklist, this is over-used, it's a duplication, so that they know in
advance before they submit their package to the planning department.
MS. BELPEDIO: Now, I'm about halfway down this list. I
believe we stopped off at Hammock Park Commerce Center. What
did you say that was?
MS. JARRELL: It's going to be an office park.
MS. BELPEDIO: Okay, how about Hammock Station?
MS. JARRELL: Hammock Station is on the comer of 29 and
Tamiami Trail East. It is a restaurant, a gas station, an oil -- an oil
place. That's how they submitted the SDP for that. It was called
Hammock Station. They don't have a sign that's up that says
Hammock Station, but that's how the SDP package was submitted to
the planning department. That's the reason why I allowed more than
the five' originally, which made Hammock over-used, because they
don't have a sign up stating that. But it is an SDP name.
MS. BELPEDIO: How about Shoppes of Pebblebrook Plaza?
MS.
MS.
MS.
MS.
JARRELL: That's a shopping plaza.
BELPEDIO: How about Shops at Imperial Plaza?
JARRELL: The same.
BELPEDIO: Shops at 9517
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November 18, 2002
MS. JARR~LL: That's a shopping center.
MS. BELPEDIO: And forgive me for asking the obvious --
MS. JARRELL: They are all.
MS. BELPEDIO: -- Shoppes of Santa Barbara, Shops of Marco
and Shops at Eagle Creek.
MS. JARRELL: Correct.
MS. BELPEDIO: I have no other questions. Thank you, Peggy.
MR. UTTER: Excuse me, I do have a couple of questions of
Peggy.
She -- could you define what a project is for me?
MS. JARRELL: A project can consist of--
MS. BELPEDIO: I'd object to that. There's no reference of
project in the applicable provision. What's mentioned is street,
development, building or subdivision. Maybe the gentleman can
point out to me where the project is.
MR. UTTER: It goes on to project in two -- at the end of two it
says projects as an example. Marsh Estates, Marsh Village, Marsh
Pond Community. But development is fine. Development, project.
What would you consider are -- or is there a definition of what a
development or a project is, with relation to this ordinance?
MS. JARRELL: Through an SDP process or a platted
subdivision.
MR. UTTER: So your names that you pull, that you
cross-reference, are from platted subdivisions or SDP's? MS. JARRELL: Correct.
MR. UTTER: And you mentioned that -- you made an
exception because the Hammock Station did not have a sign; is that
correct?
MS. JARRELL: Not calling it Hammock Station.
MR. UTTER: Okay. And the Hammock Park Commerce
Center, is there a sign on that project?
MS. JARRELL: That's still in the preliminary status, but they
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November 18, 2002
did reserve that name, sir.
MR. UTTER: How long ago was that reserved?
MS. JARRELL: They submitted the approval of the PUD, and
that was done 12-22-2000.
MR. UTTER: Okay. And then The Hammock of Naples, you
mentioned that's a condominium project. I have a photograph of this,
and it doesn't resemble a condominium project. It looks like it has a
rundown old house on it and it does have a sign. Is the name just
relative to the SDP?
MS. JARRELL: Correct, which was approved in 1990.
MR. UTTER: In 1990. So it was over 10 years ago. It
currently has a for sale sign on it and doesn't appear to be an active
development for--
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Mr. Utter, let me interrupt you just
one second.
It doesn't matter whether it's an active project or not, as long as
it has SDP approval, then it's considered reserved.
MR. UTTER: Okay. All right, I have no further questions then.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Any questions from the board for
the witness?
MR. FLEGAL: Not for Peggy, but I have one for Mr. Utter
that's --
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Okay.
MR. FLEGAL: The exhibit you submitted to us from Collier
Land Development talks about changing a name from Sable Bay
Shopping Center to The Shops at Hammock Cove. And the county
has denied a request for, in their parenthesis, Shops at Hammock
Cove. What is the name that you -- what is the name? Is it The
Shops at Hammock Cove or Shops at Hammock Cove?
MR. UTTER: We would do either. But the design of the sign, I
think it shows you graphically what we had anticipated. But we
could easily put a "the" in front of it, if that would --
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November 18, 2002
MR. FLEGAL: I'm just trying to get a coordination here.
MR. UTTER: If you'll look at the two signs that we submitted,
those are the two -- that's really what we're requesting. We want to
build two different signs, one that says Shops at Hammock Cove, and
one that says Hammock Cove, and the two signs we provided to you.
MR. FLEGAL: Okay, The Hammock Cove, unfortunately
we're not interested in. We're really interested in your other one.
And I'm just trying to clarify your piece of paper versus their piece of
paper. Did somebody leave a word out, or--
MR. UTTER: It's possible. I mean, sometimes when you say
you'll just put a "the" in front of a project, but Shops at Hammock
Cove --
MR. FLEGAL: Is what you're looking for.
MR. UTTER: -- is what we're asking for.
MS. BARNETT: Has Sable Bay Shopping Center already been
approved at one point in time and we're trying to change it? Because
Sable is also on the list as incorrect -- over-used.
MR. UTTER: It was originally -- the original SDP read CDC
Shopping Center, and so it was not -- Sable Bay is an old marketing
name. I don't think it's actually a project name anywhere. It may
have been a project name. But our DRI is called the CDC DRI, and
the plat was recorded as the Sable Bay Shopping Center, Sable Bay
Commercial Phase I. That's the plat. But the plat is not the -- the
shopping center is a parcel within the plat.
MS. BARNETT: Okay. So if I'm understanding that correctly
then, Sable is also an over-used word, so therefore --
MS. JARRELL: I approved Sable Bay for the plat. Sable Bay
Shopping Center was never in the picture, as far as that part of it
goes. It was always submitted as CDC Shopping Center, and then the
plat was recorded as Sable Bay Commercial Phase I. And they also
have Phase II for a plat.
MS. BARNETT: But Sable's on your list of over-used words,
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November 18, 2002
right, that it was --
MS. JARRELL: Because of Sable Bay, correct.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Ms. Jarrell, does the term "the"
have any relevance in a name? MS. JARRELL: No.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Thank you.
MS. JARRELL: There's too many shopping plazas that start
with "the". I don't even count that part of it.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Thank you.
Any other questions from the board?
If you'd have a seat again, we'll close the hearing again and
open it for comments from the board.
Hearing no comments -- I'm sorry, did you have a comment?
MR. PONTE: Well, I'd like to make one. I think we just have
to take some cognizance of the size of this development project. And
if the purpose is to provide easy directions to the sheriff's department
or the emergency management's department or fire department,
whatever, I would think that that would be quite obvious to a
dispatcher that you're not talking about Hammock Station if you call
someone to go to The Shops at Hammock Cove. It will be a -- it's a
100-acre project. It's not going to be misunderstood. And I think we
have to just take that into recognition when we deliberate this.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Now, what if-- and I don't mean to
be facetious, but what if the transmission was garbled through a cell
phone or something like that and the only word that came out was
Hammock?
MR. PONTE: What bothers me even more is the location is
Thommason Drive and not U.S. 41. I find that strange. I'm not quite
sure what they were trying to separate, but I think that would be
confusing. Everybody ending up at Dell's.
MR. FLEGAL: I guess along with my two colleagues, I agree
with George, that I think when you talk about Shops at Hammock
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November 18, 2002
Cove versus Shoppes at Pebblebrook, if you don't know the
difference between the word Hammock and Pebblebrook, you
shouldn't be a dispatcher, I'm sorry. If you don't know the difference
between Hammock and Santa Barbara, you need help.
Peter, as for garbled, again, you're dealing with something that
Shops at Hammock Cove, the word "Shops" isn't going to send a
rescue unit anywhere, because shops what? It has to be shops
somewhere. I think Shops, again, at Hammock Cove means
something specific versus Santa Barbara, Pebblebrook, Eagle Creek,
951. The word "Shops" I don't think is the prevailing word that's
going to send anybody anywhere. I'm sorry, that just doesn't sound
logical.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Well, that's not what we were
referring to. We were referring to Hammock.
MR. FLEGAL: Well, and-- but Hammock--
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: But I understand what your
comments are.
MR. FLEGAL: The ordinance doesn't say all words. The
variations are only permitted for names beginning with the same
word. And the county has picked the word "Shops". So Hammock
Cove doesn't enter into the equation under the ordinance. We're
worried about the word "Shops", and I don't think that's significant,
personally.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Well, I think the code is actually
very clear on this. And quite frankly, I agree with staff, that we do
have an over-use of the name of Shops. Seems pretty
black-and-white to me, quite frankly.
MR. RAMSEY: Well, you know, if we look in the section that
talks about similar sounding, in a three -- I'll call it a three-prong test
for a lack of better description, obviously roadways doesn't apply.
Five variations, I mean, I think we heard testimony from one
witness that an additional variation was allowed because it didn't
Page 2 7
November 18, 2002
have a sign. So it would seem to me that there's some flexibility in
that -- perhaps not in the ordinance but certainly in practice there's
some flexibility in that approval.
And caution must be taken to prohibit the possibility of project
names along the same roadway. This is not on the same roadway.
So, I mean, as far as clarity, you know, I don't think it's on the same
roadway. Thommason-- I would agree with our colleague that
Thommason may be even more confusing than the name of the shop
itself.
MS. BARNETT: I think I'm going to have to agree with a
couple of my other colleagues, that I think that it does specify the
general area that it's going to be attached to. And I don't think there's
going to be as much confusion as people are projecting because of
the use of the same word. I do know that in dispatching, it comes out
in a written form as well as over an intercom. So, I mean, it would
be very clear to the fire department as far as the dispatch goes.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Well, the important part for me is
where in the code does it say that we have made a mistake in
categorizing this as they have done? Where in the code does it allow
me to have five or six or seven names? The code here is basically
saying there's only five variations permitted county-wide, and we
already have six. Granted, we have a precedence where a sixth has
been given.
But again, just because we broke the rules one time doesn't
mean we need to keep breaking them thereafter. I'm just not
convinced that we have something that is substantially different than
what the codes are saying.
MR. PONTE: Well, we don't really have six, we have four that
are active, two that are inactive, and one that is at great distance.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Activity has nothing to do with it.
MR. PONTE: Well, if--
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: It's a reserved name.
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November 18, 2002
MR. PONTE: -- if on the testimony from the county the
importance of this was to assist emergency vehicles in arriving at the
proper scene so there would be no confusion there, then it does.
MR. FLEGAL: I'd like to ask Ms. Rawson a question.
MS. RAWSON: Yes, sir.
MR. FLEGAL: I need an education. Word shops, S-H-O-P-S.
Shoppes, S-H-O-P-P-E-S. Same word?
MS. RAWSON: I don't think so. But if I were you, I would ask
the planning officials how they construe it.
MR. FLEGAL' I'm asking you, because --
MS. RAWSON: In my opinion, it's a different word.
MR. FLEGAL: Okay, mine, too. I didn't make A's in English,
but I do know how to spell. And the item in the ordinance, as Peter
suggests, is very specific. I don't care whether it says, you know,
county-wide. You must read more than one word. It says beginning
with the same word. Make your English language "shops",
S-H-O-P-S. There are only four of them. So we're allowed to have
at least one more, as far as I'm concerned.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Well, again, on this section that
we're talking about, and for the record, section 13(D)(2) that we're
referring to constantly, as my colleague states out, it specifically
states only five variations shall be permitted county-wide for names
beginning with the same word.
But again, subsection D specifically states that similar sounding
shall be determined using the following parameters. So we're
defining what those parameters are.
I guess the question before the board boils down to does the
word shops, S-H-O-P-S, sound similar to shoppes, S-H-O-P-P-E-S.
And again, it's a definition of the code. I'm having -- you know, it
seems like the code seems to be very specific, but obviously I'm
wrong.
MR. FLEGAL: I think what you're missing, Peter, is similar
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November 18, 2002
sounding, it says use the following parameters. And that's where you
get in the same words. And this isn't the same word. I don't know, I
think the ordinance is straightforward.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Well, Jean, you're obviously saying
we have two different words in the context of the code as we're
reading it; is that correct?
MS. RAWSON: That's my opinion, that they are two different
words. But--
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Then I would have to defer to that.
MS. RAWSON: -- you have the ordinance in front of you. And
the nice thing about your job is you get to interpret it.
MR. FLEGAL: Thanks. All this for free, too.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Any other comments? Hearing
none, I will now'entertain an order of the board, a motion for an
order of the board.
MR. FLEGAL: Ms. Rawson, since this is our first venture into
this, do we issue an order or do we make a -- what is it we do? Is it
an order?
MS. RAWSON: I think it's going to be an order. I'm not sure
exactly how it's going to be written yet, but I think it's an order.
MR. FLEGAL: And is it the order along the lines of--
MS. RAWSON: I think it's an order whether or not in your
appeal of the planning officials' denial of the name change you either
concur with the planning officials' denial, or you don't concur and
basically you overturn the denial.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Right.
MR. FLEGAL: Okay. That being the case, I guess I would
make a motion that the board overturn the denial of the county and
let the requested name Shops at Hammock Cove stand.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Do I hear a second?
MR. PONTE: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Comments?
Page 3o
November 18, 2002
Again, based on what Jean is unfortunately telling me, all those
in favor, signify by saying aye.
Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Motion carries unanimously.
Mr. Utter? Mr. Utter, do you understand the order of the board?
MR. UTTER: I do, thank you. Appreciate your time.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Thank you.
Okay, we will move to public hearings. This will be the case of
BCC versus Maxwell of Naples Corporation--
MR. FLEGAL: Do we have any --
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: We don't have any motions -- and
Jacob Nagar, Registered Agent. Case No. 2002-027.
MS. ARNOLD: For the record, Michelle Arnold. We have two
cases noted, and we'd like to hear both cases together, because all of
the information and site visits and the like are similar, were taken
together. So we're going to be hearing both 2002-027 and 2002-032
together.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Okay.
MS. ARNOLD: And we do -- I just wanted to note for the
record also that we do have a registered speaker representing the
association on this particular item.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Ms. Arnold, we had a paper that
was given to us. Do we have any motions at all? MS. ARNOLD: No motions.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: No motions. Okay, thank you.
MS. RAWSON: Mr. Lehmann, I think you should vote to
whether you want to hear them together or not, which probably is a
very good idea. But we do need two orders.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: That's correct. We'll word the
orders separately.
We'll continue to do so, then. All those in favor of hearing both
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November 18, 2002
cases, 027 and 023 (sic) simultaneously, I'd entertain a motion to do
SO.
MR. FLEGAL: So moved.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Do I hear a second?
MS. BARNETT: Second.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Second.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: We have a motion and a second.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Hearing none, motion carries.
We'll hear both cases at the same time.
Ms. Arnold, if you would proceed.
MS. HILTON: Good morning. Our case number, as we just
went over it, is Board of County Commissioners, Collier County,
Florida versus Maxwell of Naples, Corp., and Jacob Nagar as its
registered agent and president, and we'd like to add Jacob Nagar
personally.
At this time -- it's Case No. 2002-027, and 2002-032.
At this time, I would like to ask if the respondent is present in
the courtroom.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Do we have a registered agent for
Maxwell of Naples Corporation? No one at all? Okay.
MS. HILTON: We have provided the board and the respondent
with a packet of information we would like entered as Exhibit A at
this time for both cases.
MR. FLEGAL: So moved.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Do I hear a second?
MS. BARNETT: Second.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: We have a motion and a second.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
Any opposed?
Page 32
November 18, 2002
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Motion carries unanimously.
Please proceed.
MS. HILTON: All right. Mr. Nagar did receive it certified
mail.
The alleged violation is of Ordinance 91-102, as amended,
section 3.5.7.2.5 of the Collier County Land Development Code, and
Excavation Permit No. 59.451, section: Littoral Planting Plan.
The description of the violation: No littoral plants other than
cattails observed in the lake. Requirement is 80 percent of the
required plantings, of which eight percent of lake banks --
specifically 186 linear feet, for Tract L-4, and eight percent of lake
banks, specifically 155 linear feet for Tract L-3 -- to survive three
years to ensure establishment and then for the littoral shelf to be
maintained as a functional component of the lake.
Location of violation: Sapphire Lakes, Unit 2, Naples, Florida,
more particularly described as Folio No. 72605001953, Sapphire
Lakes, No. 2, Tract L-4; Sapphire Lakes, Unit 2, Naples Florida,
more particularly described as Folio No. 72605001856, Sapphire
Lakes No. 2, Tract L-3.
Name and address of owner where violation exists: Maxwell of
Naples, Corp., Jacob Nagar, registered agent, 8001 Radio Road,
Naples, Florida, 34104.
Date violation first observed: February 13, 2002.
Date owner given notice of violation: March 7, 2002.
Date on which violation was to be corrected was June 7, 2002.
Date of reinspection: September 24, 2002.
Results: Violation remains.
At this time, I would like to mm the two cases over to the Code
Enforcement Investigator Alex Sulecki to present the cases to the
board.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: If you could swear the witness in,
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November 18, 2002
please.
(All speakers were duly sworn.)
MS. SULECKI: Good morning, Mr. Chairman, board members.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Morning.
MS. SULECKI: Okay, my duties have changed somewhat in
the past year to concentrate on planned unit developments to make
sure they're keeping their environmental commitments. And
generally this means that they have removed the prohibited exotic
plants from their open space preserve areas, and that they have
planted and are maintaining littoral plantings.
Some people call it littoral. Littoral. These are native aquatic
plants at the edge of the lake, and they're required to be planted there
when places are excavated.
I receive memos from the planning department staff who visit
and assess the PUD's on a yearly basis. If they find a problem, they
refer it to me for enforcement.
In February, 2002, I received a memo from the planning
department, stating that Sapphire Lakes' PUD was out of compliance;
specifically, they had no littoral plantings in their lakes, and they had
exotics throughout the preserves.
I opened cases on both violations. The exotics violations have
been abated by the master association, and the other -- there are some
other lakes, this lake and this lake, have been abated by the owner.
This lake and this lake were constructed prior to the requirements for
littoral plantings, so they don't have any. So I was focusing on Lake
L-4, right here, and Lake L-3, right here.
In March, 2002, I met with Jacob Nagar, who's a registered
agent, director and president of Maxwell of Naples Corporation, the
entity holding title to the lake parcels. I personally served him with a
notice of violation and order to correct, again explaining the violation
and citing Ordinance 91-102, amended, section 3.5.7.2.5, which is
your page 14. This section defines the requirements for a specific
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November 18, 2002
minimum amount of littoral vegetation, and tells you where and what
to plant and discusses how cattails are to be addressed. They're
considered to be an undesirable species, and they don't count towards
the required littoral vegetation.
Modification to that permit in 1996, which is your page 16,
clearly states in the stipulation section on number three that the lake
littoral zone shall be created and planted as indicated on the plan of
record.
The plan of record is over here. North, the south. This is Lake
L-4 and Lake L-3. And there are some calculations on the side that
are highlighted that show how many linear feet were required of
littoral plantings, and these are the sections where the littoral
plantings were supposed to be planted.
This is another section of that plan that describes exactly what --
or how it will be planted. Shows a typical lake section and a list of
plants.
Okay, why are littoral plantings important? The reasons given
in the code section cited, include performing functions, mimicking
natural Systems to improve water quality, to filter and clean runoff
from lawns and parking area, to buffer shoreline erosion, to naturally
control exotic plants, and to mimic other natural functions such as
used by wildlife or habitat.
I don't know how many of you caught this in the paper on
Saturday. It was put in there as kind of an irony, because its name is
Brynwood Preserve -- oh, wait a minute, there's the preserve, okay.
This is what happens when people develop these properties.
And so one of the very important functions of the plantings around
these lakes is habitat. Because as you can see, every -- almost every
speck of it is removed in the development process.
It's not the same habitat that was taken off. It's kind of-- it's
different animals. But perhaps they're ultimately more compatible
with people, fish and birds.
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November 18, 2002
Okay, here, I have some pictures of what it's supposed to look
like, to give you an idea. These were taken at all different places
around the county. And they all look a little bit different, but they're
beautiful.
What we're looking at here is the littoral zone, is this vegetation
all surrounding the lake. So you've got some different plantings in
there and some cypress trees. Gives habitat for birds and fish.
Here's some different kind of vegetation. You can see it a little
more clearly in the foreground here, but it goes all the way around
the lake like that.
Here's a little different look. You can see the vegetation all
along this side.
The idea is for the stuff that was -- is put in after excavation to
be a starter, and for the lake bank to ultimately be totally taken over
by these plantings. It takes some time.
And you might have spots on the lake that aren't full of
vegetation, but most of it should be. That's the concept.
Okay, here are the lakes at Sapphire Lakes. L-3, which is the
top lake -- or the bottom lake. No littoral vegetation.
This is the north end of the lake. There's a little bit of cattails
there. In fact, they're exactly in the spot where the original
vegetation was supposed to be planted.
This is L-4, the northern lake, looking north. You can see the
lake bank. There's probably a five-foot fluctuation, seasonal.
And that's looking south on the same lake. There are some
cattails up there in the bottom comer down here. They are around
the northern fringe of that lake.
Well, I gave Mr. Nagar three months to put littoral plantings in,
because we were speaking about it in March, and summertime is a
better time to plant them, due to the fluctuations in the lakes.
I spoke to Mr. Nagar again in April to assess his progress. At
that time he told me he was working with a contractor. Well, that
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November 18, 2002
didn't pan out.
Later that month I spoke to him again and told him that because
I had given him so long to do it, that extensions were not going to be
likely. So I really wanted to keep that fire going under him.
Then I spoke with another contractor and even provided him a
whole set of plans, a plant list, and that didn't pan out either.
A visitation in May showed no work started, and it became
impossible at that time to reach Mr. Nagar. Cell phone numbers kept
changing.
At that time I sent and posted a CEB warning at the property,
both lakes, at the courthouse, and at a unit where I was told that he
stays. And I did see a car out in front of that unit that was titled to
someone with his last name, so I have an idea that he received it at
that time.
Finally, in September I sent a message through a business
partner that we were going to CEB, and I received a phone message
from him, stating that the master association was responsible. He left
no return number.
Well, I had already been down that road. I had been talking with
the master association and the property manager all along in this
case, and they didn't want to do the work, since it had been Mr.
Nagar's responsibility for development, and because they didn't hold
title, legal title to the lakes. On your page 25, we had-- county staff
had done a search of public records and determined that.
A site visit in November showed no littoral plants installed and
no further contact from Mr. Nagar.
I'm recommending this morning that Mr. Nagar be ordered to
pay all operational costs and abate the violations on both lakes by
planting the required littoral plantings and maintain them, as long as
he owns the property, or impose a fine of $100 per day each day the
violation continues.
And because the property will be eventually turned over to the
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November 18, 2002
master association, and fines may go with it if it goes on the
property, I'd like to ask that the order attach fines to Mr. Nagar
individually and personally.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Any questions for the witness?
MR. PONTE: Yes. Alex, in reading the executive summary,
I've been a little confused. So by way of clarification, has there been
any explanation from anyone as to why Mr. Nagar first agreed to
plant and then later shifted or attempted to shift the responsibility to
the master association?
MS. SULECKI: Well, no direct explanation, but at the time I
originally approached Mr. Nagar, he was still in control of the master
association. And there was a turnover between when I initially
started the case and today.
MR. PONTE: Okay. In your opinion, does the master
association have the responsibility here?
MS. SULECKI: Not at this time, because they don't actually
own the lakes. They're eventually going to hopefully have them
turned over to them and have to maintain whatever is in there, but it
should be turned over in a state that's legitimate and in compliance.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Ms. Sulecki, do you have any idea
what duration it is for the turnover, what time period? Are we a year
out, two years out, three years out?
MS. SULECKI: My understanding is that the turnover has
occurred. Now, in doing a lot of these PUD cases, what I find is that
it's very common for the lakes to be left out of the turnover and no
deeds ever change hands. The associations often think they're in
charge and are maintaining the properties, but in actuality, the
developer still holds the title. I find that very common.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: And that's existing in this case as
well --
MS. SULECKI: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: -- the master association has the
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November 18, 2002
vertical construction--
MS. SULECKI: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: -- and the developer still retains the
horizontal?
MS. SULECKI: That's correct. The master association, I
believe,, now has the preserves as well, but I'm not 100 percent sure.
MR. PONTE: And was there anything involving the Aquagenix
firm? They agreed to go ahead and they told you that they were
going to go to work. What stopped them?
MS. SULECKI: Well, they were the firm that had done the
exotics removal. The master association had hired them. And when
we were talking -- I was talking with the property manager
throughout this. They did explore doing the work themselves. And I
believe, I'm not sure, but I believe they did get a quote from Mr. --
from George, from Aquagenix, but never actually hired him to do the
work. Because they determined that it wasn't their lake. MR. PONTE: I see. Thank you.
MR. FLEGAL: Alex, just to make sure I understand, the two
lakes are currently owned by Maxwell Corporation, period. And the
master association has no -- the only word I can think of is bearing
on the lakes, so to speak. In other words, Maxwell Corporation is
solely responsible for the two lakes, period?
MS. SULECKI: When I approach somebody about a code
violation, the only person that I can require to correct a code is the
property owner, and that's what I've done in this case.
MR. FLEGAL: And that's Maxwell Corporation.
MS. SULECKI: That's correct.
MR. FLEGAL: Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Question for Ms. Rawson.
In the statement of violation, the notice of violation, are we
satisfied that both entities, both Maxwell of Naples Corporation and
Jacob Nagar individually are cited and tied together with this case?
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November 18, 2002
MS. RAWSON: Well, in the heading in the statement of
violation, it's Maxwell of Naples and Jacob Nagar as its registered
agent and president. You don't have him personally.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Staff has requested that he be tied
into this.
MS. RAWSON: You can do that, but that would require a vote
to add him personally as a respondent.
MR. FLEGAL: We can do that before we have a --
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Any other questions for the
witness?
Hearing none. And we do not have any --
MS. ARNOLD: We do have a registered speaker, a Mr. Floyd
Chapin, on behalf of the Sapphire Lakes Association is here, and he
would like to address the board.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Is he the only registered speaker or
do we have a --
MS. ARNOLD: He's the only registered speaker that we have.
MR. CHAPIN: Do you want 50?
MR. FLEGAL: I want to ask Jean something before we --
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Yes, please.
Just one second, sir.
MR. FLEGAL: Jean?
MS. RAWSON: Yes.
MR. FLEGAL: Just a point of clarification so we can keep
everything nice and straight. Since the respondent isn't here and
therefore he has no witnesses, how does the board accept the
testimony from somebody that's not a witness for the respondent?
MS. RAWSON: Well, you can always hear from the public,
especially someone who is -- could be the respondent.
If in fact the lakes are potentially going to be turned over to the
master association, this is a speaker for the master association, I
presume, who could ultimately be responsible and liable for whatever
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November 18, 2002
fines you may or may not impose here today. So I don't think you
have any problem hearing the speaker. He's not speaking, I would
guess, on behalf of Mr. Nagar.
MR. CHAPIN: Correct. Good assumption.
MR. FLEGAL: That's what I'm trying to not say outright, but
was trying to get there.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Sir, if you could state your name
and tell us who you're representing.
MR. CHAPIN: I'm representing -- my name is Floyd R.
Chapin. I reside at 228 Belina Drive, in Sapphire Lakes, Naples,
Florida, 34104.
I've been asked to --
MS. ARNOLD: Can we have him sworn?
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Who are you representing?
MR. CHAPIN: The master association, the residents of
Sapphire Lakes.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: All right, thank you.
In what capacity? President?
MR. CHAPIN: I'm president of our association and also a
member of the master board of directors.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Thank you.
And now if we could swear the witness in, please.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MR. CHAPIN: Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members.
Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today and speak.
Before I do make my presentation, I'd like to acknowledge the
president of our association of the master board, Connie Fullerton,
who is in our presence here today, and also all the members of the
board of directors for Sapphire Lakes, if they would stand. The
members of the Sapphire Lakes board. Just the board.
Like I say, if you wanted 50 speakers, we could accommodate
yOU.
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November 18, 2002
The purpose of me appearing as the lone speaker for Sapphire
Lakes is to expedite the hearing and to make our feelings known to
you as to how we feel about the code enforcement aspects of Collier
County's government.
We represent 550 plus homeowners, which has about over 1,100
residents. We have been a quiet, nice community over the past 11
years, and want it to remain that way. Except with the developer that
has been with us since day one, about 11 years.
Alex presented an excellent case to you this morning, and I
could reiterate almost everything she said, because we worked
closely with her, and John DiMartino, when he had her job, over the
past several years.
We support totally the code enforcement officials in this regard.
They have done a fantastic job. They have followed through and
they have kept us informed as to exactly what was happening with
the Lakes 3 and 4, your public hearings No. 1 and 2.
Just a little bit of background. Jacob, as I stated earlier, has
been with us for better than 11 years. More specifically he has given
us problems over the past two years. Alex mentioned the exotic
removals.
Well, just to give you a little background, just about nine
months ago, we were in the process of taking over. The owners were
taking over from the developer master board. And at that time,
master board, Mr. Jacob, was cited for not complying with the
exotics removal. In the transition, we took over from Mr. Nagar, and
he walked away from taking care of the citations for the removal of
the exotics. We, the homeowners of Sapphire Lakes, got stuck with a
$40,000 bill. $40,000 out of our pockets because of his lack of due
diligence.
We are a peaceful, quiet community. We didn't want any
problems with the county or anyone else, but we paid it. Probably
shouldn't have, but we did. That's one example of how Mr. Nagar
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November 18, 2002
has treated the people of Sapphire Lakes, which he's made millions
of dollars off of, I'm sure.
We met with Jacob Nagar over the past 11 years, and more
specifically the last four years, and even more specific than that, the
last year, two years since we have taken over as our own owners --
master board. We've met with him one-on-one, we've met with him
on board meetings, we've had telephone conference calls with him,
we've met him on-site, we've met him with the master association
property managers, and each time he'd use dilatory tactics and tell us
whatever we wanted to hear. "Yes, I'll take care of it," as someone
related to earlier. "Don't worry, I'll take care of it. I'll get a
company. I'm working with the landscaper. I'll take care of the
exotics. I'll take care of the lakes." None of it's ever happened. You
have to know the man to appreciate him. And we know him very
well.
That's why we have -- all the people from Sapphire Lakes,
would they please stand who support our position. Thank you very
much.
We want the county to take whatever actions are necessary. The
developer has failed to comply with the county ordinances, he's
failed to comply with the owners' requests at Sapphire Lakes to do
the job he's required to do. We feel very concerned about our
community and we want to make it one of the best in Naples, and we
have the best in Naples.
He's failed to fulfill his obligations on so many different
occasions, not specifically to this hearing today. But we want to
make you aware of the background that Mr. Nagar has used to get by
with some of the things that he's attempted to do.
Therefore, we're looking for immediate remedial action, the
County Board of Commissioners and/or the Code Enforcement Board
today. We're asking that you order -- issue an order effecting the
proper relief, consistent with powers granted you under Chapter 162
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November 18, 2002
of the state statutes.
We also ask that you amend this to include Mr. Nagar
personally, as he's only the registered agent at this time.
We feel that he's responsible for this; he'll use his corporations
to proceed with doing whatever he has to do and just kind of thumb
his nose at us. And we don't necessarily appreciate it. We want to
live there in peace, we want harmony, we want to do what's best for
our community. And dealing with Mr. Nagar is a case all by itself.
Last, I think, a suggestion, I don't know if it's possible, but if the
county -- there's about 10 or 12 buildings that haven't been completed
yet by the present developer. I don't know if it's within the county's
power or not, but if they could not issue CO's on the remaining parts
of the building that are not completed, with the understanding that he
complete the work he's required to do. Kind of hurt him in the
pocketbook, so to speak. But maybe it would be a way to get his
attention. If you hurt someone in the pocketbook, they always seem
to respond a little quicker than by legal notice.
So with that, I would like to conclude my presentation. If you
have any questions, I will attempt to answer them. If not, there's
plenty of people here that can support us. Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Mr. Chapin, thank you.
Any questions for the witness from the board?
No questions? Hearing no questions, Mr. Chapin, if you'd have
a seat, please.
MR. CHAPIN: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Mr. Davis (sic), you're not
connected with this project at all?
MR. RIINA: No, no, I'm not connected at all.
Mr. Chairman, what happened to the bond --
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Mr. Davis, again, if you're not
connected with the project, you can't give testimony on it. We'll just
proceed.
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November 18, 2002
MR. RIINA: But I'm a citizen of the community. I'm just
asking him a question, what happened to the bonding on this project?
Was there a bond on this project?
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: This again has no relevance to the
particular issue that we're hearing.
Any other comments from the board? First comment from
myself is I certainly would approve of adding Mr. Nagar to the list of
respondents as an individual.
MR. FLEGAL: Is that a motion, sir?
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: That would be a motion.
MR. FLEGAL: On both cases?
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: On both cases, yes, sir.
MR. FLEGAL: I'll second.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: We have a motion by myself and a
second by Mr. Flegal to add Mr. Nagar as an individual respondent to
this case.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Hearing none, motion carries
unanimously.
Any further discussion?
MR. FLEGAL: I think Alex's presentation was
self-explanatory. And taking a page out of Mr. Chapin's book, since
Mr. Nagar did not show up, obviously this is not important to him. I
think it is -- I think the county has proved their point.
MR. PONTE: I agree, I think it's very clear-cut.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: I agree.
Let me just clarify a little housekeeping. Jean, we as a board do
not have within our power to effect county actions with regards to
CO and--
MS. RAWSON: No.
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November 18, 2002
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN:
MS. RAWSON: You--
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN:
-- so on and so forth?
I just wanted to clarify that for the
record for the general public.
MS. RAWSON: You have a lot of power, but that's not one of
them. You basically are restricted to determining whether or not
there's been a violation of the code in this particular instance, based
on the testimony that you've heard and the evidence that was
presented. And if you find that there has been a violation, then you
have the power to order how it shall be abated, and if it's not abated,
what would happen.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Correct.
MS. RAWSON: But CO's are not within your province.
MS. BARNETT: I have a question. Can we go above the $100
a day?
MR. FLEGAL: Yes, ma'am.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: You may go up to $250 a day.
MS. BARNETT: Well, if we want to hit him in the pocketbook,
because he seems to have the nonchalant feeling that it's not --
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Well, be careful about that. I mean,
we have the option to apply any fine that we choose, up to a limit of
$250 a day. But again, there are factors that we have to take into
account, such as the gravity of the situation, actions that he's already
taken before us, basically governed by the state statute.
MS. BARNETT: Well, guide me here then, because he's
already -- it looks like he's dumped $40,000 of cost to the existing
people that live there, so he's abated that one.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Well, let me read to you in section
11, Ordinance 92-86, in 11-2: In determining the amount of the fine,
if any, an enforcement board shall consider the following factors: A,
the gravity of the violation, B, any actions taken by the violator to
correct the violation, and C, any previous actions violations by the
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November 18, 2002
violator.
So those are the main points you can enter into consideration.
Other factors, but those should be the main points that govern your
decision.
MS. BARNETT: So apparently he hasn't done anything to
rectify the problem.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: That's correct.
MS. BARNETT: And there are previous complaints against the
gentleman that were abated by somebody else.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: No, we don't have any record of
that. A previous complaint would be something that came before this
board --
MS. BARNETT: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: -- and we have actually had a
finding of fact on.
MR. PONTE: I'd like to make a motion that a violation does
exist in this case, the case of-- that we're hearing now, the County
Commissioners versus Maxwell of Naples and Jacob Nagar, and both
cases, the CEB No. 202-027, and 32, and that the alleged violation is
of ordinance 91-102, as amended, sections 3.5.7.2.5 of the Collier
County Land Development Code, and the Excavation Permit No.
59.451, section on littoral planting plan.
The description of the violation is that no littoral plants other
than cattails are observed on either of the two lakes.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: I would second that motion.
Before we have a vote, is there any discussion on the motion?
MR. FLEGAL: And this is both cases; is that right, Jean?
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Yes, this is both cases, 027 and
032.
MS. RAWSON: Well, we need to have two separate orders. So
if I were you, I would vote separately on 27 and the other one I think
is 32.
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November 18, 2002
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Mr. Ponte, would you amend your
motion?
MR. PONTE: I'll amend the motion to comply with the
requirements.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: You separate the two cases?
MR. PONTE: Yes, absolutely.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Okay. The first motion will be on
case No. 2002-027. We have a motion that a violation exists. All
those in favor, signify by saying aye.
Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Hearing none, motion carries.
We'll next take a vote on case No. 2002-032. In that case, we
have a motion that a violation does exist, and a second by myself.
AnY -- all those in favor, signify by saying aye.
Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Hearing none, motion carries again.
Order of the board. We obviously need two separate orders.
MS. ARNOLD: If I may, there is a concern that staff has with
regards to the compliance and the fine accruing. If Mr. Nagar shows
no signs of doing the compliance, this could go on for some time and
we could accrue fines that are very substantial, and we don't want it
to affect the association.
I believe that the association has looked into the potential cost
for getting the vegetation planted, if I'm -- that's correct. I don't
know, and I'm just kind of throwing this out for the board, because
I'm looking towards the compliance as well, that whether or not we
could get in the order to get the vegetation planted by someone other
than Mr. Nagar, and assess the cost for that abatement to Mr. Nagar
personally.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Well, the board has a right to take
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November 18, 2002
immediate action, or to the county to make immediate action. My
concern on that is -- how do I word this? Does that let the developer
off the hook, in other words, if I go ahead and order the county to put
10,000, $20,000 worth of vegetation into it? Now Mr. Nagar and
Maxwell Corporation basically can ignore that and we go into
foreclosure on the lakes themselves.
MS. ARNOLD: Well, that's what I'm trying to avoid. Because
ultimately it's going to affect the association if they take over this
property. You've already amended the order to include Mr. Nagar
personally. Then my suggestion would be whatever cost is accrued
as well as fines accrued be assessed to Mr. Nagar personally.
MR. FLEGAL: Jean, I don't think we --
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: As opposed to the corporation, is
that what you're saying?
MS. ARNOLD: That's my thought.
MR. FLEGAL: Jean, I don't think we can just say gee, the
corporation doesn't pay anything but you pay something. I mean --
MS. RAWSON: Well, right now the only respondents are
Maxwell, Mr. Nagar as the registered agent and president, and Mr.
Nagar individually. You know, they're not yet a respondent.
I understand where Michelle's going, and I think it's a good idea.
Unfortunately, if they fix the lakes and the vegetation, they probably
are going to have to as an association sue Mr. Nagar to recover.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: And the moment they take control
of the lakes, they take control of the problem as well. MS. RAWSON: Right.
MR. FLEGAL: Right, the problem passes with the lake,
whoever gets it, as I understand the law.
Regardless of what we order, if Mr. Nagar -- if Maxwell
Corporation or Mr. Nagar personally refused to do it and the fines
accrue, naturally we put the lien on. I would hope that the
association is going to try and do something at that point. There's
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November 18, 2002
always the risk that I guess at some point Mr. Nagar doesn't
relinquish the lake. I don't know how their documents are written,
whether it's automatic, if it's a separate corporation that he turns it
over when he wants to, which is the way most of them are written. I
mean, he may never turn this over, that could be his choice, and it
could just be laying out there accruing until we foreclose on it,
unfortunately.
I understand what Michelle would like to have happen, but I
don't see that that's really an option for the board.
If the order of the board -- it's still on assessment against the
property, which I guess if he bankrupts the property -- he can't
bankrupt the property because he has the lake, he'd have to sell it. I
don't know how the documents are written, whether they would get
the first right of refusal or not. I'm thinking if we ordered the county
to do the planting and assess the money against Maxwell Corporation
and Nagar personally, that's the only two respondents. That's about
it, isn't it?
MS. RAWSON: That is about it.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: And just to kind of put that on the
record, I don't want to put words in your mouth, Mr. Flegal, but I
think we all agree with Mr. Flegal, the intent here is not to have the
association pay for the problem, because the association is the victim.
So we're trying to find a way that we can assess a penalty towards
the responsible party, as opposed to assessing it towards Maxwell of
Naples Corporation and Mr. Nagar, and then he just say the heck
with it, I'll let the time expire, we'll turn over to the association and
now it's your problem.
MR. FLEGAL: And I don't think there's a way around that,
unfortunately.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: We obviously can take care of it
from the county's side. If we take care of it from the county's side,
we assess the cost back into the respondent, who at this time is
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November 18, 2002
Maxwell of Naples Corporation and Mr. Nagar. They in mm can sit
on it and do nothing, in a sense, until the association assumes control
of the property, if they ever do. And then they buy whatever
penalties have been accruing against Mr. Nagar and Maxwell
Corporation.
MR. FLEGAL: Jean, I know you don't like what-if questions,
but it's the only way I can think of it right now. I'm trying to think
worst case scenario based on the history that's being presented to us
of Mr. Nagar and making promises and not keeping them and so on
and so forth.
If we issued an order and some penalty and it accrued and he
chose not to do anything, then under -- the way the statute and the
ordinance is written, at the end of three months of accruing, we can
ask the county attorney to foreclose on the property and whatever. If
they did that, then of course there's more time that more stuff
accrues. But -- because I suspect Mr. Nagar, just based on what I've
heard, isn't going to do anything.
If at the, I guess, foreclosure procedure -- I'm trying to think
ahead -- if it got that far, the master association, I would assume,
would try to purchase the lakes rather than have somebody else
purchase it. But they would be then ultimately responsible for all
these costs, correct?
MS. RAWSON: Yes. Because the lien will attach--
MR. FLEGAL: To the land.
MS. RAWSON: -- as soon as we record the order. And the lien
attaches to the real estate.
MR. FLEGAL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: And there is no way at this point in
time to separate the association from this transaction.
MS. RAWSON: If they ultimately become the owners of the
lake and the lien is attached to the land, you know, then ultimately
they become responsible.
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November 18, 2002
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: In a typical turnover procedure,
from a developer to an association, obviously liens are checked for;
is that correct?
MS. RAWSON: They should be.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: And in a sense, the attorneys that
are involved in that particular procedure should be making sure that
clear title is transferring from one to the other. MS. RAWSON: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: In this case we would not have
clear title, if a lien wasn't -- or if an order of the board was put down
on this case.
So in the fact that we don't have clear title, what is the general
procedure for assuming that? Is compensation made, or how does
that work?
MS. RAWSON: Well, I don't know what their declaration and
condominium says. And I don't know when it's going to be turned
over and how it's going to be turned over. But obviously if it was a
real estate sale, I mean, you'd have to pay off the lien before you
could pass clear title. I'm just not really sure whether he can turn it
over, whether it's a warranty deed or whether it's a quitclaim deed.
MR. FLEGAL: But if it was in foreclosure, I mean, he doesn't
have a choice of turning it over.
Another thought just came up. If it got that far -- I'm trying to
think of a way for the association to get some salvage out of this. If
it went, worst condition, all the way to foreclosure and this -- puts
this big stack of fines which had turned into a lien, and the
association got the property in foreclosure by buying it, could they
come to the board and ask for an abatement of the fine?
MS. RAWSON: Well, that's an interesting question that is
going to be the subject of our discussion probably next month.
Under our present rules, yes. Under an advisory opinion that we
just recently received, once it's recorded, no.
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November 18, 2002
MR. FLEGAL: Okay.
MR. PONTE: Jean, is there a way to separate them? I know
we've named them individually, but can respondents be fined
individually? In other words, could we say -- well, can they be fined
individually?
MS. RAWSON: Well, I think you've got him three ways:
Maxwell, as the registered agent and president, and also individually.
And you haven't named the master association at all. The only way
they're going to get hurt is when ultimately they become the owners
of the land.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Jean, let me ask you a really strange
question. And again, I think the purpose of this, and please correct
me if I'm wrong, members, but I think the purpose of this is to try to
find an immediate resolution, some sort of immediate relief for the
association, and tie that directly to the responsible party, as opposed
to the association taking -- assuming that later on.
At this point in time, do we have the right to drop Maxwell of
Naples Corporation as a respondent?
MS. RAWSON: No.
No, they own the land so you can't just drop
MR. FLEGAL:
them out.
MS. RAWSON:
They are the owners of record.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: That shot that idea down.
MR. FLEGAL: Even though we added Mr. Nagar personally,
since Maxwell owns the -- physically and by deed owns the land, the
board isn't able to, I guess, split or percentage-wise say gee, you, Mr.
"X," personally are liable for 80 percent. I mean, since he doesn't
own the land, I mean, it's going to have to be a shared deal, is it not?
MS. RAWSON: It is.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Mr. Chapin, does the association
have any comments on this? This is a little bit irregular, but I'd like
to call you back up.
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November 18, 2002
Do they have that right, Jean?
MS. RAWSON: You--
MR. CHAPIN: We don't want to spend anymore of our good
money.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Just one second.
Jean, in this part of the hearing -- or the case.
MS. RAWSON: Well, you can always reopen the hearing. You
have at this point in time approved findings of fact but have not yet
approved your order. And so if you want to stop in your discussion
about the order, reopen the public hearing and hear comments from
the association, you -- I mean, certainly you can suspend your agenda
any way you want.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Do we need a vote from the board
to do that?
MS. RAWSON: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: I would entertain a motion to do so.
In fact, I would motion that we do so. MS. BARNETT: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: We have a motion and a second.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Hearing none, we'll reopen the
hearing again.
I would like to have comments from the association with regard
to the order of the board.
MS. FULLERTON: Good morning. I'm Connie Fullerton, I'm
the president of the master association.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Ms. Fullerton, we'll need to swear
you in as a witness.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
MS. FULLERTON: Going back just very quickly, we had one
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November 18, 2002
of the most prominent law firms in Collier County representing us
through the beginning of this mess. In April, we discontinued using
their services. And we are now with another very large firm, the
largest in Florida, trying to get us through this mess. And I have in
front of me a letter, and their names are Becker and Poliakoff, which
I'm sure you all recognize. A letter dated October 17 to Ms. Jane
Cheffy, who is the attorney on record for Jacob Nagar in the past,
and Nicky Kestes (Phonetic), who came in and took over Sapphire
Lakes.
And the reason for the letter -- and it is addressed to GMA
Developers, which is one of the names that Mr. Nagar has worked
under. The purpose of the letter is quitclaim deeds, two common
areas and so forth.
Basically we do not have a clear-cut deed to any common areas,
any lakes, anything. In March, when Ms. Sulecki was working on
this environmental problem, she sent a citation to Mr. Nagar. That
was in March.
In April, he just all of a sudden decided he was turning the
complex over to us. We are now in charge. Therefore, he assumed
that we inherited all of the property, all of the problems.
As Floyd said, in order to be in compliance with the county and
not have any problems for our community, we're just a group of
hard-working medium income people. You know, we're not Gray
Oaks or Bonita Bay or anything else. We scraped up this $40,000.
And it was really a struggle for us to do this. We did it, even though
it was really not our responsibility.
It is my understanding that when a property is conveyed to you,
like in turnover, it should be compliant. Our common areas were not
compliant with the environmental people. Nor are these lakes.
Now for somebody to be saying that possibly if we issue a fine
against Mr. Nagar that somehow it can come back to where we're
actually paying our own fines that we're imposing against him, all of
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November 18, 2002
a sudden we're in a mess.
And I guess my question is, I told my kids and grandkids, you
have to do what is right because there are punishments. Where is the
punishment for disobeying? And basically he's thumbing his nose at
everyone. You know, he did it in a planning commission meeting in
December and he doesn't even bother to show up here. We took the
time out of our day to show up. You know, where is the punishment
for him? And I guess that's my question. Where do we have some
kind of a satisfaction in all of this? I just don't know. MR. PONTE: That's my question, too.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Before we proceed, Ms. Rawson,
just for the record, our firm has dealings with clients who Jane
Cheffy also represents, and totally separate business dealings, but I
just wanted to do that as disclosure. MS. RAWSON: That's fine.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Do I need to --
MS. RAWSON: No, that's not a conflict.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: -- recuse myself?. Okay, thank you.
Again, comments from the board? Questions?
MR. FLEGAL: Well, I understand the association and Ms.
FullertOn's plight. But in today's society, as we all read in the paper
and watch the news and everything, I mean, corporations go bankrupt
every day and people get hurt. Unfortunately there's no guarantee. I
mean, when you deal with a corporation, you must understand on the
front end, they can go south and you get stuck. You hope that you
deal with reliable people, and probably the majority of them are, but
there's always a few.
So I don't think there's really a good answer to your question
other than the possibility would exist that the association could end
up getting stuck. There's no protection. We can't give you any
protection, because there isn't one.
MS. FULLERTON: Well, the word lien was mentioned, and he
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November 18, 2002
does have a coach home in Sapphire Lakes. We went to place a lien
against it. We're number 17. I'm sure he has no equity in the thing.
I mean, it's just awful. It's just awful that someone can get away with
this and the little guy is going to get hurt.
Because we have a beautiful community, hopefully you've all
been there, but if not, stop by and see us. But, you know, it's terrible
that we can be hurt even more because of this man.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Jean, for the record, since we've
changed our lien rights to that of being superior to others, we've also
given up the ability to foreclose against personal property? All right.
So again for the record, we cannot even touch his personal property
for you.
MS. RAWSON: If you have him individually, however, and
yes, of course it runs against this land, but it could be assessed by our
county attorney's office, I believe against his other real property, if
he has any, other than this one unit that you'd be number 18.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Yes, sir, did you have any other
comments?
MR. CHAPIN: It was just brought to our attention, is it possible
for the Code Enforcement Board to waive the fines in situations like
this in case it comes to the point where we have to literally pay from
our pockets to take care of Mr. Nagar's problems?
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Well, at this point --
MR. CHAPIN: I mean, it might be down a ways, but I just
question.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: At this point in time, and again,
what our counsel is bringing to our attention is, at this point in time
yes, we have that right to waive fines after they have been recorded.
Unfortunately I think that's going to change here shortly, from what
she is telling us.
The other option that the board has is not to impose fines. The
advantage to that from the association's viewpoint is if the land ever
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November 18, 2002
transfers to you, well, you don't take on the burden of whatever fines
or costs that might have been imposed in the resolution of this case.
The disadvantage from the association's point of view is that
also no relief has been provided to the association. There's no
pressure on Mr. Nagar to do anything. So all you have is a finding of
fact that a violation's occurred but no pressure to get anything
rectified. And again, the purpose of this board is to achieve
compliance, one way or the other.
MS. RAWSON: Well, and of course if they comply within the
time limit given them, even though it's not their responsibility, there
aren't going to be any fines.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: That's correct. So the other option
the association has is to take it upon themselves to bear whatever
costs it is to effect relief and then no fines are incurred. But again, the
association pays for the crimes of someone else, in a sense.
MR. CHAPIN: Is there a possibility -- maybe you've answered
it, I don't know -- that we could be grandfathered into the situation,
as opposed to a year from now getting stuck with a hundred dollar a
day fines that we're going to have to assume?
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: I don't believe so. Is that correct?
MS. RAWSON: We can't do that. We don't have the -- !
appreciate the fact that the board is thinking of every possible way to
help these people, because it's not their fault what's happened, but our
powers are limited by Statute 162 in what we can or can't do.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: I think the end result -- and I'm
probably speaking out of turn, but I think the end result of the
association is if they ended up assuming any fines or penalties, it
would have to be in a civil court proceeding or something of that
nature; is that correct?
MS. RAWSON: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: It certainly wouldn't be within our
purview after that, so --
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November 18, 2002
MR. CHAPIN: Mitigating circumstances notwithstanding.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Well, for the board, and again,
please let me know if I'm speaking out of turn, because I don't mean
to speak for everybody, but for the board, I personally am very
complexed (sic) with this. We want to help the association -- MR. CHAPIN: We appreciate it.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: -- but in the capacity that we have
to help the association, it also could backfire and hurt the association,
and that's not the intent. The intent is to achieve compliance from
the developer who obviously was found in violation. So that's who
we're looking to.
MR. FLEGAL: Mr. Chairman, let's get back to the order of--
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: If we could close the hearing.
MS. FULLERTON: If I could ask one more question --
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Yes.
MS. FULLERTON: -- just for my clarification.
Today as we stand here, you can abate the fines that are
imposed; is that correct?
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: There are no --
MR. FLEGAL: We haven't imposed any --
MS. FULLERTON: No, no, but if they were, and today, say
today's circumstances continues forever. I understand you said
you're going to have a meeting in the near future where things are
going to change, to the way I understood.
Okay, if the fines are imposed against Mr. Nagar and they
continue to accumulate, can the wording be such that they go against
him personally and in the future, should the association take over, the
fines would then be waived? Can that be the wording of today?
MR. FLEGAL: I don't see that happening.
MS. RAWSON: I don't think so. You know, I'd be happy to
talk it over with the county attorney and get her opinion, but I don't
believe so. I think if we assess fines, it's for noncompliance. It's not
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November 18, 2002
against any person as much as it is the fact that it's not in compliance
with the code.
And as an enforcement board, I think that they can only say
well, come into compliance, and if you don't, you know, then these
are the fines and they'll run with the land. I mean, I think that really
is basically that simple what their job is.
MS. FULLERTON: So it goes with the real estate. So he is not
personally liable.
MS. RAWSON: Well, he is because they've made him
personally liable.
MS. FULLERTON: Well, that's what I'm saying, if he in fact is
personally liable and the fines are assessed against him personally, it
should not then come to the master association. Can we word it
such?
MR. FLEGAL: You missed what I said before when I asked
Jean. The fines are against the corporation and him combined. You
can't separate the corporation and separate him. So it's kind of like
50/50. I mean, that's the best analogy I can do. So, I mean, it's
always there. You can't say oh, he wants to turn it over, so we'll take
the corporation's 50 percent and give it to him personally and the
association gets nothing. It doesn't work like that. It's always got to
be both equally.
MS. RAWSON: And how you would be responsible, basically
two ways: If you do take it upon yourselves to comply with the
code, it's going to cost you some money to come up to code. Then
you would have to go after him personally to recoup.
The other way you could be hurt personally is if in the future the
lakes themselves became your property, then those have attached to
the land, because liens and encumbrances run with the land.
Right now, you don't have any responsibility. It's just the
potential that this board's concerned about.
MR. PONTE: Jean, what is the new rule? Must have some
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November 18, 2002
abatement process or some way to get at it. What is it? What would
be the recourse?
MS. RAWSON: Well, in this particular instance, their only
recourse I think is to sue him civilly.
MR. CHAPIN: I have one other question of you, Mr. Chairman,
and the board.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Yes, sir.
MR. CHAPIN: You normally give 30 days to execute an order;
is that correct?
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Whatever time period the board
decides.
MR. CHAPIN: We would like to have 60 days before you enter
the order so we could go back and kind of regroup and determine
how we want it enforced, if at all possible. Does that make --
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: If I understand you correctly, you're
asking for a period of 60 days be entered into the order before the
respondent is required to comply? So you're asking for-- on behalf
of Mr. Nagar and Maxwell Corporation that they be allowed 60 days
before they do anything before the fines kick in.
MR. CHAPIN: Well, I'm only doing that to try to protect
ourselves. I don't know if that's necessary or not.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: I understand that. But my question
to you is just for clarification so that I make sure that I understand
what you're asking properly.
When you say you're asking for 60 days in the order, that
basically tells us that the respondent, the corporation and Mr. Nagar
personally, will have 60 days before anything will happen to him at
all. After that 60 days, then he will start to incur fines, of which case
you may not be responsible for in the long term.
MR. CHAPIN: Forget it. Fine him tomorrow.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Now, this is something a little out
of the ordinary also. Does the association have a preference as to the
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November 18, 2002
fine amount? And I know the board sets it, but again, this is
something that you may be -- Jean, is that even close?
MR. FLEGAL: Jean, aren't we getting a little --
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Off the board? Don't answer that?
MR. FLEGAL: -- really way off the board, because you're now
asking the public to recommend a fine.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Correct.
MR. FLEGAL: And that can happen in every case we do from
now on. I think that's a very dangerous precedent. CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: I strike that.
MR. FLEGAL: The board makes the decision, period.
MS. RAWSON: I think it's the board's decision.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: I strike that. I was just trying to
find ways in which we could help this association.
MR. FLEGAL: I think we -- I think we're so far afield now,
we've -- we're way on thin ice. Because I see every case the public
coming in and saying gee, I want to talk for Mr. "X". And this is
dangerous.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Okay, let's go ahead and close the
public hearing then, if you don't have any other comments, and we'll
go -- open it for discussion for the board.
MR. FLEGAL: I guess, Mr. Chairman, I'll make a comment
and if somebody ends up making a motion, that's fine, since we're in
our order of the board.
I know our intent is to try and make it as palatable as possible
for the association hypothetically down the road. That's good theory.
Unfortunately, I think we're trapped into what our authority and our
restrictions are. The case is against Maxwell Corporation and Mr.
Nagar, since we've added him personally. I think we need to zero in
on that to try and get some type of compliance as rapidly as possible.
I understand my colleagues' interest in a heavy hammer. I'm
always one that says let's do that. At the same time, I'm trying to
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November 18, 2002
temper that in my mind with down the road for the association. But I
always come back to the same comment that right now we have a
corporation and a man personally that we're trying to deal with. I
think we need to focus on that, make a rational decision as we would
in any other case, and I guess hope for the best down the road. And
if there's a way we can do something down the road, great. If not, it's
just the nature of the beast, unfortunately.
If no one else has a comment, or are willing to make a motion
for an order of the board, I will do so.
MR. PONTE: I totally endorse what you're saying, Cliff. We
are caught in a conundrum here. And I think that Mr. Nagar, if when
you come to the fining portion, is not severely fined, he won't do
anything. At the same time, if he is, he's just going to dump it over
to the association, just trans -- once he's through it enough, he will
simply transfer the hurt to them.
If there is a way to word your motion so that the worst scenario
happens and the association has to go to civil and to sue, the actual
wording of your motion would be -- could be used by them to prove
the point -- to prove their side. It should in some way penalize Mr.
Nagar, but at the same time provide them with ammunition to use in
the civil suit.
MR. FLEGAL: I understand what you're saying.
But Jean, I think that there is probably no way to word an order
to protect a potential party down the road. I mean, anything you deal
with-- a piece of land can always be sold, so you're hypothetically
trying to protect somebody who may buy something who knows
when, and I don't think that's even feasible.
MS. RAWSON: You can't really levy a fine against anybody
other than the landowner.
MR. FLEGAL: Right.
MR. PONTE: No, I understand that. Just in the wording of it.
It's very difficult to do that by composing it out of thin air. It's one of
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November 18, 2002
those things where you really ought to sit down and write it out.
MS. RAWSON: What you're trying to do is protect all future
landowners, which you can't do.
MR. FLEGAL: You can't protect the future.
MS. BARNETT: No, but wouldn't the fact that we have added
him individually be something that they could utilize?
MS. RAWSON: Yes, that's going to help them.
MR. PONTE: Sure.
MR. FLEGAL: Well, yeah, I mean, they can utilize the order
period to help them--
MS. BARNETT: That's what I think he was --
MR. FLEGAL: -- against their corporation.
MS. BARNETT: -- trying to say.
MR. FLEGAL: But we can't protect them down the road. All
they can do is take any order we issue to anybody and use it as part
of their case. I mean, that's -- you can do that anytime.
MR. PONTE: That's what I'm saying, so that when you craft
the motion, maybe you have to somewhat differently than we
normally do.
MR. FLEGAL: I know what you're trying to do, and that's what
-- I believe Jean and I are on the same page. You can't do that. You
can't protect the future. All you can do is issue a standard order that
we always issue, and they can use that standard order. But we can't
put words in there to further help them. An order is an order is an
order, period. We can't add any extra words. There's just no way to
do that.' It goes against the land, and when the land transfers, you
can't protect that person way down there. All they can do is say well,
this order was issued and we're using that as an exhibit. But you
can't put extra words in there to further help them. There aren't any.
Is that correct, Jean?
MS. RAWSON: That's correct.
MR. PONTE: I guess they could introduce the minutes of this
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November 18, 2002
session.
MS. RAWSON: Well, they can use the order. It's going to be
recorded. Public record.
MR. FLEGAL: Based on that, I'd throw out a motion that we
order the respondents, both Maxwell Corporation and Mr. Nagar
personally, to pay -- item one, to pay all the operational costs
incurred in prosecuting this case; two, that the respondents, Maxwell
Corporation and Mr. Nagar personally, abate the violations that
they've been cited for within a 30-day period; three, that if the
abatement fails to take place in a 30-day period, that the respondents,
Maxwell Corporation and Mr. Nagar personally, be fined at the rate
of $150 a day for each day the violation continues.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Do I hear a second to that motion?
MS. BARNETT: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: All those in favor, signify by saying
aye.
both
Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN:
MR. FLEGAL:
cases?
MS. RAWSON: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN:
32 now.
Motion carries. Proceed--
Now, Jean, do I need to do that to say it's on
We need to proceed to an order to
MR. FLEGAL: That was on case 027.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Correct.
MR. FLEGAL: I would make the same motion on case 032.
MS. BARNETT: And I will second it.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: We have a motion and a second.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
Any opposed?
(No response.)
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November 18, 2002
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Hearing none, motion carries.
Sir, do you understand what we're doing?
MR. CHAPIN: Thank you.
MS. FULLERTON: Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: If we can take a 1 O-minute break,
we'll return at 25 after. (Brief recess.)
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Call the board back to order, where
we'll reconvene.
Ms. Arnold, are you ready to proceed with the next case?
MS. ARNOLD: Yes, we are.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: If you would do so.
MS. HILTON: Our next case is Board of County
Commissioners, Collier County, Florida, versus Joseph and Ida
Cannistraci, which is spelled C-A-N-N-I-S-T-R-A-C-I; Rick
Johnson, individually; R.A. Johnson, Inc., doing business as Rick
Johnson Auto and Tire; Richard A. Johnson, Sr., as its registered
agent; and Richard A. Johnson as its president. Case No. 2002-026.
At this time, I would like to ask if the respondent is present in
the courtroom. Yes, he is.
We have provided the board and the respondent with a packet of
information we would like entered as Exhibit A at this time.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: I would entertain a motion to do so.
MR. FLEGAL: So moved.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: I'll second the motion.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Motion carries unanimously.
MS. HILTON: The alleged violation is of section 2.4.3.6, and
2.4.3.6.7 of Ordinance 91-102, as amended, of the Collier County
Land Development Code.
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November 18, 2002
The description of the violation: Out of four landscape buffer
trees planted as a result of case No. 2000030224, only one is
surviving, and it does not present a healthy plant in a condition
representative of its species, staking tape remains on since initial
planting and is constricting trunk, and trunk has been damaged by
weed wacker. No irrigation observed on-site, and it's doubtful that
any fertilization has occurred.
Out of the four trees along Green Boulevard, two Carrotwood
and two Loquat, that were previously damaged by excessive pruning
and were cited as violations in the above mentioned case, all still
exhibit varying degrees of rot underneath new growth and do not
represent healthy trees representative of the species.
Required landscape hedge not present along Green Boulevard
and along 40th Terrace, adjacent to residential properties.
Location of violation: 4020 Green Boulevard, Naples, Florida,
more particularly described as Folio No. 35831840006, Golden Gate
unit 2, part 1, block 73, lot 1.
Name and address of owner or person in charge of location:
Joseph and Ida Cannistraci, 2801 Santa Barbara Boulevard, Naples,
Florida; and Rick Johnson, 4020 Green Boulevard, Naples, Florida.
Date violation first observed: July 9th, 2002.
Date owner or person in charge given notice of violation: July
15th, 2002.
Date on which violation was to be corrected was August 15th,
2002.
Date of reinspection: September 24, 2002.
Result of the reinspection is the violation remains.
At this time I'd like to turn the case over to the Code
Enforcement Investigator Alex Sulecki to present the case to the
board.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: One second, please.
Mr. Johnson, if you'd come up to the podium, I'd like to swear
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November 18, 2002
both the witnesses in at the same time. (SPeakers were duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Mr. Johnson, thank you. If you'd
have a seat just for the moment.
Thank you.
Please.
MS. SULECKI: Okay, this case started with another case,
2000303224, where I required the property owner to replace four
excessively pruned and damaged landscaped trees along the front of
the business.
This is the business. It's Rick Johnson Auto and Tire. And
these are the four trees that I required to be replaced initially in the
earlier case.
The tenant, Mr. Johnson, planted four trees but declined to
remove the damaged trees, and I didn't pursue the matter. I would
have to say, with hindsight, that was probably an oversight on my
part.
Two years later, after passing the property and having other
staff members point it out, I noted that all but one of the replacement
trees were dead and the living one was unhealthy. I reviewed the
property again, this time requiring the removal of the initially
damaged trees and the planting of the minimum landscape required at
the time of development, which was 1984.
I required three trees to be planted and shrubs along both Green
Boulevard up here, and 40th Terrace, down that way, where a
landscape area along here is routinely used for customer parking.
And here is pictures of the trees. You can see there's no shrubs.
The trees probably don't look so bad to you from here, and you think
well, what's wrong with them? That's what's inside the trees from the
original problem with the pruning.
On your page 13, I cited section 2.4.3.6 and .7. This is the
pruning and maintenance codes that requires replacement of
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November 18, 2002
excessively pruned trees by the owner and also replacement of dead
landscape material within 30 days of its demise.
I found an inspection card from 1983, showing the property was
inspected for landscape and passed for both the shrubs and the trees.
So they were there initially, they just died probably shortly
afterwards and were never replaced.
I delivered a notice of violation in this case to the owner, Mrs.
Cannistraci, in person and explained that the required landscaping
was missing and what there was there wasn't being maintained as it
was supposed to be. And that was in July this year, on the 15th.
At this time I also met on-site with a manager, whose name is
Mike, and advised him to also have an arborist evaluation the rest of
the trees on the parcel, because they had been damaged maybe not
quite so badly, but I thought there was a hazard potentially for them,
too.
I talked to Mrs. Cannistraci again on August 1 st to check the
progress, and she told me that Mr. Johnson was going to be installing
that landscape. From earlier she had told me she might need more
time, and I told her at that time to please be sure and request that, an
extension, before the compliance date.
So shortly after this, on August 7th, I met on-site with Mr.
Johnson and my supervisor, and he advised me he was buying the
property. At that time he requested a reduction in some hedge plants
along this area up here. Because there's a dumpster located right
there, and cars coming out of the alleyway couldn't see; the line of
sight would be taken out by the shrubs.
So I agreed, pending review of the location of that dumpster.
And I did talk to Waste Management about it, and they said there
was nowhere else on the property that it could be. So it had to be
there, so okay, no shrubs in that location. And I sent him a list of
recommended list of shrubs.
On August 26th I made a site visit and I observed that he had
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November 18, 2002
planted some trees, three Dahoon hollies. They were -- they satisfied
part of the requirement. But no trees had been removed and no
shrubs were planted, so I sent a CEB warning letter. I contacted the
owner, Mrs. Cannistraci in New York about this time to let her know
there was no compliance. This was after the compliance date.
And she requested at that point an extension, which was denied
for several reasons: She didn't provide a time frame for compliance;
there was no reason in advance for the delay; and the remaining
repairs were fairly minimal and had been out of compliance for many
years.
I appeared before you last month in this case and you granted a
30-day extension. Since that time, Mr. Johnson, who's here, is the
new owner, and he requested to remove the remainder of the trees
and replant to bring the entire landscape to a better condition, which I
agreed.
As of yesterday all the damaged trees had been removed and the
site appears to be a work in progress. We had some bad weather, so
possibly that delayed things. That's the 40th Terrace side, and that's
the Green Boulevard side.
So we're asking -- I'm asking today that you find there was a
violation of the ordinance cited and require the landscaping to be
restored to a state of compliance or impose a fine of $50 per day.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Any questions from the board?
MR. FLEGAL: Alex, have you talked to Mr. Johnson about
what he's doing?
MS. SULECKI: No, but I did get a note on my chair this
morning that said that they were going to work over the weekend.
Maybe the weather stopped that; I don't know.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Thank you.
Mr. Johnson?
MR. JOHNSON: Yes, sir. How are you doing?
We did find a place to put the dumpster. We're reducing the
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November 18, 2002
dumpster to half size, putting on wheels and as it tums out, we're
going to put it inside the horseshoe-shaped building and roll it out
every morning, so that eliminates that whole dumpster area. And it's
kind of ugly anyway.
I leased this property back in 1997. That was my first store. I
own five stores now. The lease was coming up for renewal October
31st. I could renew for another five years or buy the property. That's
what I elected to do was buy instead of continue to lease the
property.
I've talked to Alex several times and told her that we were
buying the property, and as soon as I bought the property -- and I met
with you all a month ago and said as soon as I bought it I would
comply with everything that she wished to comply with. I would
even go beyond that.
It is a work in progress. We took all the trees out. The weather
did delay them this weekend. They are there today. A full sprinkler
system is being installed -- it's already installed. It's just -- you see
the thing, it's already installed. But there was never a sprinkler
system there. So when the first violation happened where I had to
replace the first original four trees, I put four trees in, but there was a
drought then for five months. Three of the trees passed on. They
died. Then by August 15th, I replaced those three trees. Well, out of
the four trees that were originally replaced, I replaced three of them.
Two of those three have died because of just no water. I mean, that's
the problem with the project.
So we fully put a sprinkler system on both the 40th Terrace and
on Green. We are absolutely going to put all the bushes -- even
which she allowed me to keep the bushes back 25 feet from the little
alleyway, I'm going to put the bushes all the way to the alleyway
because now I don't have a dumpster problem.
I'm also going to put more soil in so we can put Floratam in.
Right now it's nothing, there's nothing there.
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November 18, 2002
On the 40th Terrace that she's talking about where everybody
parks, that's true. Customers come up there -- I've been there for five
years, they just park anywhere they can park. So what we're doing is
we've hired a curb company to build an entire curb around this
section so they can no longer park on there.
There's also a couple of areas as they pull into the driveway that
curbs need to be put, because they kind of catch the sod that I'm
going to plant brand new and they'll kill the sod within a month. So
we're going to put curbs all over the area to keep from that.
We're also installing a French drain to be able to catch any oil
laden waters that comes off our driveway that's washed out by the
rain. And it's going to go through a filter system. That's being
installed also.
We also repainted the building. We're trying to bring it really
up to -- bring it up to code. I've got an SDP submitted right now for
a store being built on Pine Ridge Road.
So, I mean, we are active in the community and we will do
whatever is necessary, but I was unwilling to put in shrubs and
sprinkler systems and all that when I don't own it. I was unwilling to
put my money forth until I owned the property.
I don't know when the shrubs died. I've only been there since
'97. I remember landing there in '65 and there was an airstrip. You
know, my daddy brought me over here and bought some land in
Golden Gate, that was an air -- that's why Green Boulevard is so
wide, because it used to be an airstrip. But I don't remember this
property when I was 10 years old back then.
So, I mean, the property, within, I'm guessing, a week, less than
that on the plants, the shrubs, the Floratam, the dirt, that should be
done in about the next three days. As far as the curbing, should be
complied within 10 days and it will be in perfect shape.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Good.
Any questions from the board?
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November 18, 2002
MS. BARNETT: I can just make a comment that I have to drive
by there on my way here, and I did notice a full crew out there this
morning.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Mr. Johnson, thank you very much.
We'll close the public hearing and open it for the board's discussion.
Comments, discussion?
MR. FLEGAL: Question for Jean. Jean, since title has passed,
are the original owners still involved?
MS. RAWSON: Well, we haven't changed the heading and I
haven't seen the deed. And actually, I don't know who the owner of
record is. The deed that you have in your packet still shows that it's
Joseph and Ida Cannistraci. So, you know, we'll probably just leave
the heading the way it is.
MR. FLEGAL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Hearing no discussion, I would
entertain a motion for a finding of fact.
MR. FLEGAL: Mr. Chairman, I would make a motion that
there -- indeed, as presented, a violation does exist. The violation is
of section 2.4.3.6 and 2.4.3.6.7 of Ordinance 91-102, as amended,
Collier Land Development Code.
MS. BARNETT: I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Just clarification. Is that the right
ordinance? Because in my package I've got --
MR. FLEGAL: I'm reading off the statement of violation. Is
that wrong? Alex, is that the right --
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Is that the correct one? Because in
the package on page 17, we only show those two violations. We
don't have a section seven under section six. MS. SULECKI: No, six and seven.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Six and seven. It's 2.4.3.6 and
2.4.3.7.
MS. SULECKI: Yes.
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November 18, 2002
MR. FLEGAL: Okay, that's not the way it's written.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: That's not the way it's written on
the statement.
MR. FLEGAL: I correct it to 2.4.3.6 and 2.4.3.7 of the
Ordinance 91-102.
MS. BARNETT: I'll amend that one.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: We have a motion by Mr. Flegal,
second by Ms. Barnett.
All in favor, signify by saying aye.
Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Hearing none, motion passes
unanimously.
And order of the board?
MR. PONTE: I make a motion that we follow the staff
recommendation.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: I ask a clarification.
Recommendation of the staff would be that the CEB order the
respondent to pay all operational costs incurred in the prosecution of
this case and abate all violations to replacement plantings and
removal of damaged vegetation within 30 days or a fine of $50 per
day be imposed for each day the violation continues.
We have a motion from Mr. Ponte. Do I have a second?
MR. FLEGAL: I'd second that. The operational cost is a
separate item, right --
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: That is correct.
MR. FLEGAL: Okay.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: We have a second by Mr. Flegal.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Hearing none, motion carries
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November 18, 2002
unanimously.
Mr. Johnson, do you understand?
MR. JOHNSON: Not completely.
MR. FLEGAL: You've got 30 days.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Thirty' days to complete what you
have. If it's not completed in 30 days, we have a fine of $50 per day.
From what you're saying it probably wouldn't give you a problem at
all.
MR. JOHNSON: Just in case I can't get the curbs in, they
should be there within 15 days, but she's not asking for curbs.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN:
MR. JOHNSON: Plants.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN:
you very much.
MS. ARNOLD:
operational costs?
MR. FLEGAL:
No, we're just looking for the --
-- compliance of the section. Thank
I have a question. So we did not include
Yes, we did.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: We did include operational costs.
MS. ARNOLD: Oh, we did? Oh, okay.
Next case?
MS. HILTON: Our next case is Board of County
Commissioners, Collier County, Florida, versus Gerald K. Davidson,
case No. 2002-033.
At this time, I would like to ask if the respondent is present in
the courtroom. And he is not.
We have provided the board and the respondent with a packet of
information we would like entered as Exhibit A at this time.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: I would entertain a motion to do so.
MR. FLEGAL: So moved.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: I'll second the motion. All those in
favor, signify by saying aye.
Any opposed?
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November 18, 2002
(No response.)
Motion carries.
MS. HILTON: The alleged violation is of section 1.5.6. And as
it is an agricultural, we're going to strike 2.6.7.1.1 and 2.6.7.2.1, as
they do not apply.
It is of Ordinance 91-102, as amended, of the Collier County
Land Development Code.
The description of the violation is it's the illegal outside storage
of inoperable and/or vehicles, and an RV with an invalid license tag
on property not approved for such use. There are but not limited to
six or more known vehicles. And this is a repeat violator, previous
CEB Case No. 2001-077.
The location of violation: 2181 Platt Road, Naples, Florida,
more particularly described as Folio No. 00104440003.
Name and address of owner is Gerald K. Davidson, 4273 20th
Avenue Southwest, Naples, Florida, 34116.
Date violation first observed: August 27, 2002.
Date owner given notice of violation: October 15, 2002.
Date on which violation was to be corrected: October 25, 2002.
Date of reinspection: October 15th, 2002.
ReSults of reinspection: The violation remains.
Property in courthouse was posted. Certified mail and regular
mail was also provided.
And at this time, I would like to mm the case over to the Code
Enforcement Investigator Jeff Letoumeau to present the case to the
board.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Swear in the wimess, please.
(Speakers were duly sworn.)
MR. LETOURNEAU: For the record, my name is Jeff
Letoumeau, Collier County Code Enforcement Board investigator.
Originally I brought this case and Mr. Davidson before the
board on September 27th, 2001 for illegal and use of outside storage
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November 18, 2002
of inoperable vehicles and untagged vehicles. This board found that
there was a violation, and fined Mr. Davidson.
The violation remained until February of 2002, in which case I
did a recheck and all the violations were removed.
On August 27th of 2002, I received an anonymous complaint
about more vehicles being brought onto this property. I went out
there and found at least six vehicles. It's hard to tell because it's so
overgrown I couldn't really walk through all the bushes and
everything, but I did physically see six vehicles and took pictures.
The violation was found to be the same violation as I brought
for September 27th, 2001.
No one was there, so I posted a notice of violation.
On September 10th, I performed a recheck and found the
violation remained. I left a warning note that I would start CEB
proceedings, because the violation was a repeat violation.
On September 19th the notice of violation was returned
unclaimed.
On October 15th I did a site visit and all the violations still
remained.
I proceeded to officially post the property again, post the
courthouse and regular mail a notice of violation to Mr. Davidson.
On October 29th, I performed a recheck and found the violation
remained. I talked it over with my boss, Mr. Morad, and we decided
to start CEB proceedings as a repeat offender.
On November 4th, my supervisor, Mr. Morad, left a recorded
message with Mr. Davidson that this case was being prepared to go
before the board.
On the 8th of November, Mr. Davidson called Mr. Morad and
we explained that this was a repeat case and we were going to take it
before the board in November. He said he understood.
I went out to the property last Friday on the 15th and the
violation still remained.
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November 18, 2002
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Any questions?
MR. PONTE: Yes. Investigator, I notice from the photographs
that they were taken at some distance. So how did you determine
that the vehicles were untagged and/or inoperable?
MR. LETOURNEAU: The vehicles that I took, well, on the
first visit, or actually the first couple of visits, I walked out there and
I said -- I didn't take photographs. As you can see on the
photographs, they're dated on 10-8-2002. And I first visited in
September and then again October.
When I went out to take the pictures on (sic) October, there was
three dogs running loose on the property, and I didn't really want to
go any closer. I did notice that there are no tags on either vehicles I
took pictures of, though.
MR. PONTE: Makes sense to me. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: And all of these vehicles are in
some state of disrepair, which -- they are inoperable at the current
time?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Correct.
MR. FLEGAL: Jeff, if we order them to remove them, what
kind of time limit would you think would be sufficient to clear up
your violations?
MR. LETOURNEAU: I think 30 days would be sufficient.
MR. FLEGAL: Thank you.
MR. PONTE: The trailer that I'm looking at is -- I assume
there's no one living in it; is that correct?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Not that I know of. I've never seen
anybody out there.
MR. PONTE: And is it accessible? In other words, could kids
get into it or could vagrants get into it?
MR. LETOURNEAU: Anybody could walk in this property
and get into anything on this property. It's just wide open.
MR. PONTE: So what we have with the trailer, particularly in
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November 18, 2002
the cool weather, is a hazard, an attractive nuisance for kids to -- are
there kids around, or is this way out in the country?
MR. LETOURNEAU: This is way out.
MR. PONTE: Oh, okay.
MR. LETOURNEAU: I mean, there are people living around
there. I imagine there could be kids. It is an improved property.
There is a permitted mobile home on the property. But as far as I
know, nobody's been living there for a long time. But there is
definitely access to this property.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Any further questions? Okay, we'll
close the hearing section of this case, open it for discussion. Any discussion or a finding of fact?
MR. PONTE: Well, if there's no discussion, I'll make a motion.
Apparently -- rather, that a violation does exist in the case of the
County Commissioners versus Gerald Davidson, CEB No. 2002-033.
The violation is of sections 1.5.6, 2.6.7.1.1, and 2. -- CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: The county has rescinded the other
two. It's basically a section of 1.5.6 --
MR. PONTE: All right. So let me just amend the violation to
read 1.5.6 and deleting the other two, of Ordinance 91-102 as
amended by the Collier County Land Development Code.
Description of violation is illegal outside storage of inoperable
and/or vehicles and an RV with invalid license tags on the property
not approved for such use.
MR. FLEGAL: I second the motion.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: We have a motion by Mr. Ponte, a
second by Mr. Flegal. All in favor, signify by saying aye.
Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Hearing none, motion carries
unanimously.
If we could have an order of the board.
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November 18, 2002
MR. FLEGAL: George, do you want to do it? If not, I'll do it.
MR. PONTE: Well, just a little discussion. Is it necessary to go
directly to the $500 on a repeat? Is that -- in other words, are we
taking those to the outer limit, or is there a way that you can say it's
$300 or it's 250 or -- MR. FLEGAL:
Is that correct, Jean?
MS. RAWSON:
MR. FLEGAL:
You can make it anything you want up to $500.
MR. PONTE:
MR. FLEGAL:
the county.
MS. ARNOLD:
the last time.
MR. FLEGAL:
That's right. This is a repeat violation.
Yeah, you don't have to do it automatically.
Well, what did we fine the respondent last time?
I have no way of knowing. You'd have to ask
If I have your order. We charged $50 per day
Another question to go along with that is did he
-- I know Jeff said that that one got abated. Was it abated in time, or
did penalties amass?
MS. ARNOLD: There were fines assessed, I believe. Let me --
MR. LETOURNEAU: Actually, the hearing was on September
27th. He didn't abate the violations until February. And I think you
gave him 30 days to abate it, so he was in violation and getting fines
for up to four months, I think.
MR. FLEGAL: Do we know if he's paid his old fines?
MR. LETOURNEAU: I don't think he's paid his old fines yet.
MR. FLEGAL: Well, obviously a light touch didn't work.
MR. PONTE: Just so that there is some logic to what we're
doing, though, that we might consider doubling the fine.
MR. FLEGAL: Sounds nice, except based on what Jeff and
Michelle are saying, the $50 didn't impress him, I don't think $100 is
going to impress him. He didn't do it on time the first time around. I
would venture to say he's probably not going to do it this time
around. I'm more prone -- maybe not 500, but 250 sounds like a good
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November 18, 2002
number'to get his attention. He needs to understand the county's
serious about keeping property clean.
MS. ARNOLD: Just for the board's information, we did
forward this to the county attorney's office, his prior case, and the
fine amount was about $3,000.
MR. FLEGAL: Okay, so it's been forwarded to the county
attorney for collection and/or foreclosure, whichever they see fit.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Michelle, you also, in staffs
recommendation, you recommend the imposition of a fine of $500
for repeat violation. Just a $500 flat fee for repeat violation. Where
do you find that in the codes that we could do that?
MS. ARNOLD: The board has the ability, if found that this is a
recurring or repeat violation, because it had been previously
adjudicated that a fine did exist, to fine $500.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Do you have a section that we
could look at to --
MS. ARNOLD: I'll have Jennifer read you what it says.
MS. BELPEDIO: Jennifer Belpedio, assistant county attorney.
The provision that you're looking for, Mr. Chairman, is under
162.09. It's entitled administrative fines, cost of repair and liens.
Section 2(A). A fine imposed pursuant to this section shall not
exceed $250 per day for the first violation and shall not exceed $500
per day for repeat violation. I'll stop there. It continues.
MR. PONTE: I think the question was about the per diem. One
was --
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: No, the question was not about the
per diem. I understand that. MS. ARNOLD: Right.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: But in the staffs recommendation,
they specifically state impose a fine of $500 for repeat violation, and
advise respondent that a fine of $500 per day will be assessed, so on,
so forth.
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November 18, 2002
MS. BELPEDIO: We can clarify that. It's $500 per day while
the violation is not in compliance. For each day.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: And that was my concern. It seems
like we have a fine -- the fact that you were a repeat violator,
automatically pay $500, and then if you don't comply, then you pay
$500 a day, according to staffs recommendation.
MS. ARNOLD: Right, that was my reading of it, that you could
-- the fact that you found previously that a violation did exist, and
then your finding again that it did exist on the days that staff noted,
you have the ability to fine $500 per day each day the violation is in
existence. And our recommendation was to fine $500 for the repeat
occurrence and then each day it exists thereafter.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: I just don't find anything that would
support that in the code's ordinances.
MS. BELPEDIO: To clarify, you certainly -- I now realize what
Michelle was representing to you. You certainly can begin the clock
on the day the violation was first observed for repeat violations. So
the day that Mr. Letourneau had given you is the day he first
observed the violation, you can start the clock on that day and you
can charge $500 that day and every day that the violation continues
to accrue. I can give you the provision and the statute for that. Let
me just find that for you.
Okay, that's also in 162.09 under section one. Let me find you a
good place to start here. Beginning on the fifth line, in the case of a
repeat violation for each day the repeat violation continues,
beginning with the date the repeat violation is found to have occurred
by the code inspector. I can give you the four or five lines that
precede that if you need to hear the provision in its entirety.
MR. FLEGAL: I think our chairman's problem, and I'm on his
side on this, is that he's looking for the specific language that says the
board could impose a flat $500, that's item one.
Item two is we want an additional $500 for every day the
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November 18, 2002
occurrence has happened. I don't read that in the statutes or the
ordinance. That's why we're wondering where the county came up
with this.
MS. BELPEDIO: I'm not aware of any such provision.
However, it's -- I'll leave it to staffs discretion as to what they'll be
asking for. But you certainly can relate back to that first day and
accrue $500 per day.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Just for the board's knowledge, I
don't see it anywhere. It's not in the Florida statutes, it's not in the
governing ordinances. We can't assign just a lump sum fine just
because you're a repeat violator and then assign a per diem fine as
well.
MR. FLEGAL: You're right, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Any other questions, discussions?
Okay, I'd like to proceed then with a motion for the order of the
board.
MR. FLEGAL: Go ahead, George, you start it. I gave you a
recommendation, so if you like it, be my guest.
MR. PONTE: All right, a recommendation that CEB finds that
a repeat violation exists and orders the respondent to pay all
operational costs incurred in the prosecution of this case, and that a
fine of $250 per day will be assessed each day the violation is
repeated, commencing with the day the violation was -- or the repeat
violation was discovered by the investigator. And continues past the
date set for compliance by the board.
MR. FLEGAL: Which is? How many days are we going to
give him?
MR. PONTE: Five days.
MR. FLEGAL: I don't know that that's enough. When I asked
MR. PONTE: There were six vehicles, there are a few more.
Get them out of there. Five days.
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November 18, 2002
MR. FLEGAL: I know when I asked Jeff, he said 30 days. I'm
not looking necessarily for 30 days, but maybe something a little
longer than that. How about-- MR. PONTE: Why?
MR. FLEGAL: -- could we go for 107
MR. PONTE: Why would we give this respondent longer than
five days to get them off there?
MR. FLEGAL: I mean, I don't know where he is. He didn't
show up here. I don't know if he's in town. So, I mean, 10 sounds
nice. How about 107
MR. PONTE: If you like 10, 10 is fine.
MR. LETOURNEAU: I would say at least enough to get the
mail to his address. I mean--
MR. FLEGAL: Yeah, we're going to have to mail this to him
and then he's going to have to have time to do it. So, I mean, I guess
we could send it overnight if we could find him. But at least 10 days,
I would think.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Mr. Ponte, did I mishear you? Did
you say that the fine would start from the day the violation existed,
or--
MR. PONTE: No, from the day -- as I understand from the
reading, from the day that Inspector Letourneau has found the
violation to be repeated. So that this new fine would start the day he
found the violation in repeat, not --
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: So why are we giving him 10 days
or five days or anything else? You've already incurred the fine from
the moment he --
MR. FLEGAL: Yeah, but you have to give him some time to
correct.
MR. PONTE: Well, I thought that what we have been told was
that the fine could kick in immediately on finding the repeat
violation, the time the inspector saw that.
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November 18, 2002
MR. FLEGAL: Jean, is that -- don't we have to give him some
time, or do we just leave it open?
MS. RAWSON: You can go back to the day of the discovery,
which I think was October 29th, and you can charge him whatever
you want to charge him every day from then. But then of course I
agree, what's the point of giving him time to correct, if you're going
to do that?
MR. PONTE: So delete that.
MR. FLEGAL: So if we just say you're fined from back then
and there's no days to correct and you're just fined until you get rid of
the violation?
MS. ARNOLD: Well, my understanding of-- and we've done
this before, is you could do that. And what you're doing, you're
fining this person as a repeat violator. So you're fining him or her,
and you can -- the fine can continue to accrue until it's corrected.
You can give him additional time to correct it, if you want. But you
have that option to immediately start the fine and it would continue
until the violation is corrected.
MR. FLEGAL: Okay, I'm not objecting, I just want it clear in
my mind that if we go back to when we first found it and we say the
fine starts back yonder, we don't give him a day, we just say the fine
is in existence until you clean up the problem, period. MS. RAWSON: That's right.
MR. FLEGAL: Okay, I'd go along with that. Cool.
MR. PONTE: So amended.
MS. BARNETT: And I'll second it.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: So my understanding of the order
of the board is going to -- the CEB finds that a repeat violation exists
and orders the respondent to pay all operational costs -- MR. PONTE: Yes.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: -- number one, in the prosecution of
this case. No. 2, advise the respondent that a fine of $250 per day
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November 18, 2002
will be assessed from the date the violation was noted by the code
enforcement officer until it is deemed it to be in compliance and
corrected.
MR. PONTE: Correct.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Okay. We have a motion by Mr.
Ponte, a second by Ms. Barnett.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Hearing none, motion carries
unanimously.
MS. ARNOLD: Okay, next item you have is a request -- it's
under new business, a request from the respondent for
reduction/abatement of fines. And that's Board of County
Commissioners versus Shad-Davis, Incorporated. And that's CEB
Case 2002-009. And in your packet, you do have the completed
request form from Mr. Davis, and he is present here today.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Okay.
MS. ARNOLD: This particular one, just so that you all know, is
-- was heard as a repeat violation. There was a prior case that he's
not requesting a reduction of fines for, it's only the 2002 case.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Okay. Ms. Rawson, due to the fact
that the public hearings are closed, we do not need to take testimony?
MS. RAWSON: That's right.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Thank you.
MR. FLEGAL: Can we ask Michelle a question?
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Certainly.
MR. FLEGAL: As relates to this, Michelle, what is the fine
amount? Since we don't have a copy of anything. Can we know
what our order said and was there a fine imposed and how much?
MS. ARNOLD: Yeah, there was a fine imposed. There was an
operational cost of $941.75, plus a fine of $500, which is a total of
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November 18, 2002
$1,441.75.
MR. FLEGAL: Thank you.
MR. PONTE: $500 flat, or $500 per day?
MS. ARNOLD: $500 flat.
MR. PONTE: Flat.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Okay, Mr. Riina, would you like to
say something? I ask that you keep your comments to about five
minutes.
MR. RIINA: I'll keep it very short, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Thank you.
MR. RIINA: I think the letter is self-explanatory.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Ms. Rawson, do we need to swear
Mr. Riina in?
MS. RAWSON: If he's going to testify we do.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Would you please swear the
witness in.
(Speaker was duly sworn.)
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Please proceed.
MR. RIINA: Mr. Chairman, I'll cut it short, because it's been a
long day. I think the information, the letter is self-explanatory what
really happened, and so it's up to the board, the decision they want to
make. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Okay. Open for discussion for the
board.
MR. FLEGAL: This was a repeat violation. I understand that --
what the respondent says. I think at the time it was a repeat violation.
I can remember some of it. I think that's why we did a flat $500 fine,
understanding it wasn't totally his fault. I think we were lenient back
then.
And I guess at this point I don't have any wish, decision,
whatever, to abate any part of the fine. I think we made our decision
back in the beginning and were lenient at that point, so I think the
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November 18, 2002
fine and costs should stand.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Any other comments?
MR. PONTE: Well, just -- and I guess Mr. Flegal would have
caught this, is the request for the reduction of fine within the time
limit that we have to consider such abatement?
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: I don't recall. I don't believe there
is -- Ms. Rawson, do we have a time limit on the reduction of fines?
MS. RAWSON: No.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: That time only applies if
foreclosure has already proceeded.
MS. ARNOLD: I think it is timely. I think we just did the
imposition of fines maybe a couple of months ago, if that.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: I think so.
MR. PONTE: Thanks.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Any other comments? Hearing no
comments, I would entertain a motion to either grant or deny Mr.
Riina's request for reduction of fines.
MR. FLEGAL: I guess I'll stand by my comment. I'd make a
motion that we deny the request.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Second.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: We have a motion by Mr. Flegal, a
second by Mr. Lefebvre.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
MS. BARNETT: Aye.
MR. LEFEBVRE: Aye.
MR. FLEGAL: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN:
MR. RAMSEY: Aye.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN:
MR. PONTE: Opposed.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN:
carries by a majority vote.
Any opposed?
We have one opposed. Motion
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November 18, 2002
Thank you, Mr. Riina.
If we could move on to the next case. Or excuse me, this is a
request 'for imposition of fines.
MS. ARNOLD: This is Board of County Commissioners versus
Puchhas -- Carl Puchhas, Code Enforcement Board Case 2002-018,
and that was for a violation of section 2.7.6.1 and 2.7.6.5 of the
Collier County Land Development Code.
The case was heard on September 26th, 2002. And at that time
the board found a violation did exist and ordered the respondent to
correct the violation by either obtaining a building permit for the boat
dock or -- and a variance for the encroachment, or remove the same
within 30 days.
The respondent was also advised that if compliance was not met
by the above noted proceedings, then $50 per day would be assessed
each day the violation continued.
The respondent was also advised that operational costs would be
assessed.
Staff is at this time requesting that we imposes fines in the
amount of $976.55 for operational costs. And there was no
additional fine because there is compliance, and we have on our
agenda an affidavit of compliance.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN:
MR. FLEGAL: So moved.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN:
MS. BARNETT: I second.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN:
I would entertain a motion to do so.
Motion by Mr. Flegal. Any second?
Second by Ms. Barnett.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Hearing none, motion carries
unanimously.
Request for foreclosure.
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November 18, 2002
MS. ARNOLD: Yes, we only have one case on this memo.
This is requesting that Charles Goings, Code Enforcement Board
Case 2001-076 be forwarded to the county attorney's office for
action.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Any discussion? Hearing none, I
would entertain a motion to do so.
MR. PONTE: So moved.
MR. FLEGAL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Motion by Mr. Ponte, second by
Mr. Flegal.
All those in favor, signify by saying aye.
Any opposed?
(No response.)
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Hearing none, motion carries
unanimously.
Affidavits of compliance.
MS. ARNOLD: Yes, we have two that's Board of County
Commissioners versus Carl Puchhas, Code Enforcement Board Case
2002-018, and Board of County Commissioners versus Ronald
Gleichman, that's 2002-020.
And the final item under old business is an affidavit of
noncompliance, that's the Board of County Commissioners versus
Charles H. Goings, CEB Case 2001-076.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: So noted.
Reports?
MS. ARNOLD: We have Ellen Chadwell here.
MS. CHADWELL: Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen of
the board.
Let me hand out to you, if I may, just a little kind of a
breakdown in numbers.
THE COURT REPORTER: Excuse me, I need you on the
microphone.
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November 18, 2002
MS. CHADWELL: Okay, again, for the record, I'm Ellen
Chadwell. I'm assistant county attorney.
What I just handed out is a memo that kind of breaks down in a
numerical fashion the status of, or at least -- yeah, the status of the
cases that have been authorized by this board for foreclosure or any
other legal proceeding authorized by statute for the collection and
enforcement of the liens that you all impose.
Just briefly, you can see that some of the older ones -- we still
have some of the older ones hanging around. The majority of those
are in pending lawsuits for foreclosure. I hope to wrap up a couple of
those in the next few months.
Some of them have been -- one of those matters is actually the
Keiser case, which I believe this board is going to be modifying an
order on that sometime in the near future. They will initiate
foreclosure proceeding at that point in time.
The more recent cases that have come over, we had a total of 44
of those that were delivered to our office in July. Along with that
came the March -- a couple of cases out of March. And you can see
already that we -- some of our letters -- what I do is I'm mailing those
letters saying, you know, this is attaching a copy of the lien and
saying we intend to pursue legal proceedings to enforce this,
including the foreclosure on any real or personal property you may
have. We've got pretty good response from those letters. You can
see on some of these that are already disposed of, what is that, five or
four that have signed, a couple of others have called in, some of these
letters -- a good number of these cases we've just sent some letters
out, so they're still within a 30-day period. I'm hopeful that a fair
portion of those will pay the lien and dispose of the matter that way
as well.
So currently, in light of the three that you authorized last month
and then you've authorized one today, that puts us at about 50 cases.
So we'll keep you abreast. Every quarter I try to come in and
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November 18, 2002
give you a tabulation of where we are. If you need any additional
information, please feel free to request that and I'll try to incorporate
that in my report. I do -- I don't have any problem addressing any
specific matter, cases that are in our office that you might have some
inquiries about. But I do try to limit the details, if it is impending
litigation.
So that being said, are there any questions?
MR. FLEGAL: Ellen, I think you answered it. I only had one.
In looking at your 49 pending cases my question was, the 27 cases
we don't talk about, those are the ones where you have mailed the
letter and maybe people have responded or -- because if we take all
the, quote, total case items and add them up, you get one number,
and the pending cases are 49. So when you subtract, there's 27 cases
that aren't addressed. And I'm wondering what are those 27 cases?
MS. CHADWELL: Oh, they're gone. For instance, if you look
at the first group of the -- there's only a third of those left, nine of the
27. And the rest have either been paid up or we foreclosed and own
the property, proud owners of the property now. There's been a
couple of those. Or they've been resolved through some type of
settlement where the Board of County Commissioners have
approved. So those are all finally disposed of.
MR. FLEGAL: Would you or would it be hard for you the next
quarter when you do it, could you give us one or two sentences that
say --
MS. CHADWELL: How they break --
MR. FLEGAL: Yeah, just the number that aren't shown, that
they have been disposed of by some method that you handle. MS. CHADWELL: Sure.
MR. FLEGAL: Okay? That way we know that they're all gone.
Because when I read them I said, good, they're doing a great job, but
I wondered what happened to the 27. Then I thought well, maybe
they're already closed, so -- and they in fact are. So that's good.
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November 18, 2002
Thank you.
MR. PONTE: Is it possible to get one of these that show
business end-of-year summaries like --
MS. ARNOLD: Yeah, you can get that from us.
MR. PONTE: Okay. That's so I can understand.
MS. CHADWELL: My computer skills are somewhat limited,
so -- anything else? Okay.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: That's it.
MS. CHADWELL: Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Thank you, Ms. Chadwell.
Any other comments from the board?
All right, next meeting date will be December 16th, 2002. I
would entertain a motion to adjourn.
MR. PONTE: So moved.
MR. FLEGAL: Second.
CHAIRMAN LEHMANN: Motion and a second. All those in
favor, signify by saying aye.
Any opposed?
(No response.)
There being no further business for the good of the County, the
meeting was adjourned by order of the Chair at 12:20 p.m.
COLLIER COUNTY CODE ENFORCEMENT BOARD
PETER LEHMANN, CHAIRMAN
Transcript prepared on behalf of Gregory Court Reporting
Service, Inc., by Cherie' R. Nottingham.
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