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PVAC Minutes 11/12/2002 RNovember 12, 2002 TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE PUBLIC VEHICLE ADVISORY COMMITTEE Naples, FL, November 12, 2002 LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Public Vehicle Advisory Committee, in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 A.M. in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F" of the Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members present: CHAIRMAN: William Csogi Nick Whitney Dan Shriner Pat Baisley Allen Walburn ALSO PRESENT: Tom Palmer, Michelle Arnold, Ekna Hu Page 1 AGENDA COLLIER COUNTY PUBLIC VEHICLE ADVISORY COMMITTEE November 12, 2002 9:00 AM Collier County Government Center 3101 E. Tamiami Trail BCC Room, 3rd Floor, Administrative Bldg. ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THAT TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED. PLEASE ENSURE ALL PAGERS AND CELL PHONES ARE OFF OR IN A QUIET POSITION. Regular Meetinq I. Roll Call II. Additions or Deletions III. Approval of Agenda IV. Approval of Minutes: September 12, 2002 V. Notices VI. New Business: Request for approval to Operate a Vehicle for Hire Service a) Elite Limousine requesting Sub-Certificate for A-1 Limo. b) Dolphin Cab of Collier County c) Full Circle Limousine VII. Hearing VIII. Old Business A-1 Limo IX. Complaint Report X. Discussion XI. Announcements November 12, 2002 Public Vehicle Advisory Committee County Commission Boardroom Building "F", 3rd Floor 3301 Tamiami Trail Naples, FL 34112 9:00AM Minutes November 12, 2002 The meeting was called to order at 1 l:25AM. II. Attendance: Members: Nick Whitney, Dan Shriner, William Csogi, Pat Baisley, Allen Walburn Collier County Staff: Tom Palmer, Michelle Arnold, Ekna Hu Additions or Deletions -"At Your Service" request for approval to operate was added to item 6, line D. III. Approval of Agenda -Mr. Shriner made a motion to approve the agenda for November 12, 2002 with the addition previously mentioned. It was seconded by Mr. Whitney. All were in favor. The motion passed unanimously, 5-0. IV. Approval of Minutes for September 12, 2002 -Michelle Arnold reported to the committee, that the minutes were not available and will be provided at the next meeting. Notices -Michelle Arnold reported that there were no notices. VI. New Business: Page 2 November 12, 2002 Request for approval to Operate a Vehicle for Hire Service A) Elite Limousine requesting Sub-Certificate for A-1 Limo -Michelle Arnold informed thc committee that Elite Limo was one of thc companies advertising in the phone book without a certificate number. She explained that they contacted Debbic Webber, who is the person submitting for A-1 Limo, and that Elite has a current certificate to operate with Collier County. -Rick Scott, the owner and operator of Elite Limousine Service, stated that he has a current certificate, which covers thc vehicle in question. He explained that this was an advertising error. Debbie Weber had put A-1 Limo in the Yellow Pages, which goes along with her A-1 Communications and with a phone number that has been connected to her boat and charter company for the last 26 years. They were informed that a sub-certificate was required in order to resolve the situation. -Mr. Csogi asked if they have received notifications sent by Code Enforcement over the last year, requesting their appearance. Mr. Scott stated that he had not. -Mr. Csogi asked if A-1 had been operating in Collier County as a taxi or Limo company before today's date. Mr. Scott stated that A-1 has been operating under Elite Limousine Service. -Mr. Csogi asked Michelle Arnold if they had requested log records from Elite Limousine Service at the last meeting. Michelle Arnold stated that they did not. -Pat Baisley asked if the purpose of a sub-certificate was to operate a different type of business then the main certificate. Tom Palmer stated that he was confused as well, since this is not the process for adding another vehicle. -Mr. Walbum asked who had the insurance on the vehicle. Mr. Scott stated that it was covered under Elite Limousine Service. -Pat Baisley asked about the process for a sub-certifiicate. Mr. Palmer stated that the vehicle was already authorized to operate in Collier County under Elite Limousine Service and that it was insured. For the purpose of the advertising conflict, they are attempting to have this vehicle operating under the trade name of A-1 Limo of Naples. Michelle Arnold stated that this was correct, but the question that Pat Baisley was raising, was about a different kind of business from the main certifiicate, and that one would not have a Limo service under two different names. Mr. Palmer stated that he was not sure that it was limited to that and he did not believe it was the Page 3 November 12, 2002 case. He informed them that if there was a legitimate business reason, then it would be fine. This was a request for a fictitious trade name under the primary certificate holder. -Mr. Walburn asked Mr. Scott if his testimony was that this vehicle had been operating prior to today's hearing. Mr. Scott stated yes, it has been operating prior to, but not up to today's date. He explained that it had been operating for Elite for two and a half years. Mr. Walbum asked if it has ever done business as A- 1 Limo or has it been under his umbrella. Mr. Scott stated that it has been under his umbrella and that is where the advertising error came up, because it had a fictitious name that did not match with the registration. When the error was pointed out, Debbie Weber was notified. Since then, she has not been answering the telephone as A-1 Limo. Mr. Walburn clarified that it was Mr. Scott's testimony that Debbie Weber never did business as A-1 Limo and that when she took reservations she used the name Elite Limousine Service. Mr. Scott stated that the clarification was correct. -Mr. Walburn showed Mr. Scott a receipt from A-1 Limo and asked him to explain what it meant. Mr. Scott stated that apparently there was a "run" down under A-1 Limousine. Mr. Walburn asked if he knew anything of that "run". Mr. Scott stated he was not aware of it. Mr. Walburn pointed out, that this receipt rendered Mr. Scott's testimony incorrect, since the vehicle has operated under the name A-1 Limo. -Mr. Scott asked what the date of the receipt was. Mr. Walburn informed him that it was June 7t~, 2002. Mr. Scott replied that this is where the publication error started. Mr. Walburn pointed out that Debbie Weber had registered the fictitious name in August of 2002. -Mr. Csogi stated that for the past six months they have been working with Code Enforcement investigating this situation and the problem was not because Ms. Weber had a phone add, but the conflict was that she was doing business under the name. He stated that they caught her doing so, sent her a notice, and she did not show up at the last meeting. -Mr. Walburn stated that he wanted to get the testimony of Mr. Scott on the record, clearly. He clarified that Mr. Scott's testimony was that the car had been operating for the past two and a half years and only recently there was a yellow page ad that came up due to conflict, and he was here to resolve the yellow page ad. Mr. Scott stated that was correct. Page 4 November 12, 2002 -Mr. Walbum asked how this could be Mr. Scott's testimony, when this committee had documentation that this business has done business in the past under A-1 Limo. Mr. Scott stated, this was why they were trying to resolve things. He added that they have gone "through the channels"; Ms. Weber had it registered under a fictitious name, they were informed that they needed to get a sub-certificate, they applied for it, and they are trying to follow through with the process. -Mr. Walbum asked who owned the vehicle. Mr. Scott stated that the registration listed A-1 Communications. Mr. Walbum stated that he did not have a copy of the registration that showed him who owned the vehicle and if it actually existed. Mr. Scott stated that the vehicle did exist, because Michelle Arnold stated it existed and was registered. He added that it was insured and with the application for Collier County Permitting, there is a copy of the registration each year. Mr. Walburn asked for a copy of the vehicle registration for review. Mr. Scott stated he did not have a copy at the moment. Mr. Walburn stated that he did not know how they could approve it without a copy of the registration for review. -Michelle Arnold stated, they had a certificate under Elite not under A-1. Mr. Scott informed her that the certificate was under Elite, but the registration was under A-1. Mr. Scott then stated, he did have a copy of the registration available and it was registered under A- 1. -Mr. Shriner stated that on 6-7-02, they were called at A-l, which was Elite Transportation, and they took a person from Collier County to the RSW airport. He explained that it was the same invoice previously discussed. It was an invoice for $100 with a 20% gratuity. He then showed that a sales tax of $6 was charged. He stated that it was illegal to charge sales tax on services. He further explained that he did not want to "open a bigger can of worms", but he wanted to set the matter aside for the time. -Debbie Weber, owner of the vehicle, stated that the address on the invoice was incorrect, it had not been signed, there was no receipt of payment, it was handed to another company operating under A-1 Limo out of Fort Myers, and that it was not her vehicle. She added that Allen Walbum should recuse himself, since he is in direct conflict with her on another item. Mr. Shriner stated that this was going to be a lengthy discussion and he would like to table it until they can review the other items on the agenda. Page 5 November 12, 2002 -Mr. Csogi asked if any of the members had a problem with tabling this until the end of the meeting. No members had a problem. The issue was tabled until the end of the meeting. B) Dolphin Cab of Collier County -Mr. Whitney stepped down from the committee, stating that he was representing Dolphin Cab Company. -Mr. Palmer stated that Mr. Whitney would not be able to vote on the merits of the matter. Mr. Whitney declared a conflict. Mr. Palmer explained for the purposes of this matter there would be a four-person board. -Pat Baisley stated the application indicated a partnership, but it did not list the names of the partners. Mr. Whitney informed her that Larry Murphy was the owner of the company and he was managing the company for Mr. Murphy. -Mr. Csogi stated that their was another business that operated under the name Dolphin Transportation, because the names were so close, he asked that the name be changed. Mr. Palmer agreed that it was a problem. -Mr. Palmer asked if there was a written verification of the partnership. Mr. Whitney stated that it was an oral partnership. Mr. Palmer stated, Mr. Murphy was sole proprietor, with Mr. Whitney as the manager, and therefore he did not believe that the application with Mr. Whitney as a partner was legal. He added that they should check into this, because it is a sole proprietorship, not a partnership. He explained that partnership indicates ownership, which is not here. -Michelle Arnold stated that he was not listed as a parmer on the application. -Mr. Csogi stated, Mr. Whitney was listed as a manager. Mr. Whitney stated that if the application listed him as a partner, then he had done so in error. -In reference to the name change: Mr. Whitney stated that they would change the name and resubmit something new. -Pat Baisley stated that they should probably make a motion to table this until the name change was submitted. Mr. Palmer stated, his main concern was the applicant would lose time. Mr. Whitney stated he could re-submit it today with the new name. -Mr. Walbum said that he has not had time to review the information. -Pat Baisley asked if they could call a "special meeting" in December to address this matter. Page 6 November 12, 2002 -Michelle Arnold stated that it would be possible, they would only have to find a room. The committee discussed having the meeting within a week. The committee was concerned about having a room to meet in. They asked Michelle Arnold to try and find a time in the first week of December, which will allow the applicant time to re-submit under a new name and the board time for review. -Mr. Whitney replied, he understood the situation, but it put him out of business for the next few weeks. He added that they needed the name and process to be closed out in the next few days, so they could get publication in the Yellow Pages. He explained, he did not have any vehicles since he was waiting for board approval. Mr. Csogi stated that since this is a new endeavor, one vehicle, and not currently in operation, that he did not believe it would affect the business. -Mr. Csogi made a motion to table this item until a special meeting could be held, pending the application is re-submitted with a new trade name that did not include "Dolphin". It was seconded by Mr. Walburn. All were in favor. The motion passed unanimously, 4-0. -Mr. Walbum asked, if Michelle Arnold could set up a meeting earlier, that she do so. C) Full Circle Limousine -Pat Baisley stated that they would need the Collier County rates, not the rates that they use in the East Coast. -Alex Mcquenia, regional manager of Full Circle Limousine, stated that they are attempting to move to the west coast. He explained that he called a few limousine companies on the west coast to verify rates, and they will use the west coast rates. Mr. Csogi explained that the west coast rates will need to be submitted. Mr. Mcquenia stated that he would do so. -Mr. Csogi asked if they filed for a fictitious name. Stephanie Shwetz explained that they did not have to since they were "incorporated". -Mr. Csogi asked why the registration was under "Full Circle Farm". Stephanie Shwetz explained, it was done under Full Circle Farm, but it was now under Full Circle Limousine. She stated that she had the new registration with the proper name. Mr. Csogi informed her that they would need to provide Ekna Hu with a copy. -Ms. Bailey stated, there were credit reports on individuals, but not on Full Circle Limo. Stephanie Shwetz replied that they did not have them, since they were a new company, but her First USA card is now under the name Full Circle Limo. Page 7 November 12, 2002 -Mr. Csogi asked if they had a Collier County phone number and P O box. Mr. Palmer explained, they needed a location for record keeping and a phone number to be reached for service. Mr. Mcquenia informed him that he had a friend in Collier County, who was allowing them to use his address and phone. He added that the phone is not advertised at this point, not until they receive approval, and that the mail is being forwarded. Mr. Mcquenia stated that he would keep his records here as requested. Mr. Shriner advised them to use a bank box. Mr. Palmer stated that as long as they left the Collier County records at the friends address, then that would be fine. The applicant stated that neither would be a problem. -Mr. Csogi made a motion to approve pending the timely submittal of the registration, a Naples phone number, their records kept in Collier County, vehicle inspection form, and on the Certificate of Liability under the certificate holder their insurance needed to list Collier County BCC. Pat Baisley seconded the motion. All were in favor. The motion passed unanimously, 5-0. I)) "At Your Service" requesting a certificate to operate -Joseph Morro Sr., representing "At Your Service", stated that he was also the manager of his company and his wife was the secretary. -A three minute recess was taken -Mr. Csogi asked if they were operating out of there home and if they had an occupational license. Mr. Morro Sr. stated, they were operating out of their home and that they were going to get a license. -Pat Baisley informed him that they would need a certificate of insurance. -Mr. Shriner asked how many employees there were and how many vehicles. Mr. Morro Sr. replied, there were two employees, himself and his wife, and one vehicle. -Mr. Csogi made a motion to approve pending certificate of occupational license, insurance corrected, and thc vehicle inspection form. It was seconded by Mr. Walburn. All were in favor. The motion passed unanimously, 5-0. A) The committee revisited the Elite Limousine requesting Sub-Certificate for A-1 Limo -Mr. Palmer stated that he had read the ordinance and he had no problem with the sub-certificate that was being applied for. He explained that it was allowing the vehicle to operate under the fictitious name A-1 Limo, which essentially allows a Page 8 November 12, 2002 different phone number and a different advertising vehicle. He added that this is a legitimate use for a sub-certificate. He was informed that the vehicle is leased from A-1 Communications to Elite limousine, it is inspected, and insured. -Mr. Walburn asked for a copy of the lease agreement. Ekna Hu informed him that she had a copy in the office. -Mr. Csogi asked if the company was operating as A-1. Mr. Scott replied that they have not answered the phones with A-1 Limo, since the notice of violation. -Mr. Csogi stated he would like to table this issue to the "special meeting" they are arranging in the next few weeks, because there are other issues on the agenda, regarding this situation. -Mr. Scott requested a copy of the invoice in question, because it was a "bogus" invoice. Mr. Csogi informed him that he could get a copy from staff. Mr. Shriner stated that Mrs. Powers was present to testify that she took the ride and paid the $126. Mr. Csogi replied that this was not that matter before the board today and he would like to table it due to all of these issues. -Mr. Csogi made a motion to table this item to the "special meeting" unless something relevant came up under "old business". -Mr. Walbum asked if they had a sticker on the vehicle. Mr. Scott informed him that they did, currently the phone was not being answered as A-1 Limo, and there is no correspondence with A-1 Limo. Michelle Arnold said that they issued the sticker to Elite, not to A-1. -Mr. Csogi's motion was recalled. It was seconded by Pat Baisley. All were in favor. The motion passed unanimously, 5-0. VI. Hearing -There were no scheduled hearings. VII. Old Business A) A-1 Limo -A motion was made to table this till the "special meeting". -Mr. Walburn asked if what they would be doing, would be considered a quasi- judicial hearing. Mr. Palmer stated that it depends on if a charge is pending, and then it would need to be advertised as a hearing. Mr. Palmer asked if there was an outstanding, charging document. Michelle Arnold informed him that they issued the Page 9 November 12, 2002 notice, provided the notice for a hearing, and the matter was initially discussed at the last meeting, but Debbie Weber was not present at the time. -Mr. Palmer explained the procedure for the hearing. He informed the committee that they had a choice; whether they wanted to do a quasi-judicial hearing or try to get the issue resolved by finding out what is going on. Mr. Csogi stated his goal is for them to be licensed. Mr. Scott informed him that this is what they are trying to do. Mr. Csogi asked that Mr. Scott give Michelle Arnold a name and address for both Elite and A-l, this way they will receive correspondences. Mr. Csogi also asked for the log books of A- 1 and Elite. -Mr. Scott asked how far back they would like the log books to go. Mr. Walburn said, since Mr. Scott's testimony was that A-1 had operated for two and a half years, then the records should go back at least this far. -Mr. Palmer stated, the question is really when did the advertisement for A-1 begin in the phone book, since their couldn't have been a violation of the ordinance until such time; therefore it should go back until September of 2001. -Mr. Csogi stated the committee was requesting the log books from September 2001 to the present for Elite and A-1. Mr. Palmer stated, they should be given a "reasonable period of time" and a few days should be sufficient. The committee agreed on this time frame. -Mr. Shriner stated that according to the ordinance, they could only go back one year on the records, which meant the logs were requested from November 15t~, 2001 to the present. The committee gave the applicant 15 days to get the records together. -Mr. Scott asked what the allegation of charges against them were. Mr. Shriner stated that it will be in the paperwork when they are served. -Michelle Arnold stated that the notice they sent was for a business in Collier County operating without a certificate. She added that other issues had come up in the meeting, one of which was the taxes charged as part of staff' s trip. She explained that they are putting them on notice that this is a violation of the ordinance as well. Mr. Palmer stated that the state law does not allow this tax, that these are non-taxable services. -Mr. Palmer added that there was a serious problem here; a lack of communication. The county had been attempting to contact them for months and had not heard back. He advised the applicant to get with staff and give a full explanation of things, get to the bottom of things, and try to resolve this. He explained that this does not have to Page 10 November 12, 2002 be a strictly adversarial procedure, that they are interested in getting them certificated, operating properly, and finding out what happened in the past. Mr. Csogi stated, this was his goal as well. Michelle Arnold asked if they are going ahead with a hearing or not. Mr. Palmer explained that this is up to staff discretion and they didn't have to make the decision at the moment, but it behooved the applicant to get with staff and attempt to clear this up. Mr. Palmer added that they will refer the question of sales tax to the state, since they don't prosecute for this type of issue. -Michelle Arnold stated that, normally, when they have a NOV that is issued, if the applicant comes in to resolve the problem, then the matter would be closed. She added that staff investigated the situation and reported on it, so they can allow the applicant to resolve the problem or they can go ahead with the report provided by staff. Mr. Walbum replied that he believed all parties would want to clear their names, and considering the testimony provided to date, it appears they may be discussing three different Limo services and that it may be possible that staffmade a citation to the wrong company. He believed it was important to find out who it was, that actually collected the money. -Mr. Csogi asked if a vehicle number had been acquired during the fide. Michelle Arnold stated there was. Mr. Csogi replied that he would like to pursue that information at the next meeting. He explained that he did not want to proceed with a hearing for the moment, but rather a "finding of the facts". Once they have the log books, they can match it up to staff's report and see if they have the fight business. Michelle Arnold stated that they can check the tags and see who the vehicle is registered too as well and they will provide this to the committee at the "special meeting". VIII. Complaint Reports -There were no complaint reports, but there was a public speaker. -Jack Bridenthal, USA Taxi, referred to the reaction of his complaints, submitted at the last meeting. He explained that all of those complaints and all filed within the last few years need to be re-entered and acted upon, based on the reading of the fourth paragraph of the county ordinance. He stated that the violations go back six to seven years and that the violations were basically from one company. He feels this company has caused a loss of millions of dollars to other cab companies and a loss a value. He termed the Page 11 November 12, 2002 companies in violation, "certificated gypsies". He asked for something to be done and stated that he would "go after" the county commissioners if nothing was done. -Mr. Walbum asked him if he had requested code enforcement set up a sting operation. Mr. Bridenthal stated that he had many times. He explained that the ordinance states the PVAC can do the enforcement. Mr. Palmer explained that the PVAC could hold hearings but not issue the citations. He added that Mr. Bridenthal can make a statement to staff, that he believed there were violations, only to instigate an investigation into a factual matter. If staff investigates and brings it before the board, then the board may here it where they will have an objectionable analysis of the matter. -Mr. Walbum suggested that the board make a motion to suggest to code enforcement that they here Mr. Bridenthal's complaints. Mr. Csogi replied that Mr. Bridenthal was submitting a sworn complaint and requesting a hearing. Mr. Palmer explained that there were two levels. One is whether or not an individual is willing to come in and testify with all the facts to prove the charge. Or the other level is whether or not his primary thing is to get an investigation going. Mr. Csogi asked if all the elements of proof are available, then what is Mr. Bridenthal to do next. Mr. Palmer informed him that it is to go to the board and tell them that he is willing to testify to the violation and request that a citation be issued. -Mr. Csogi asked which "Staff" did the follow up investigation, the Code Enforcement Office or the State Attorney's Office. Mr. Palmer stated in all probability the State Attorney would not prosecute this case, which leaves Mr. Bridenthal with this board, the Code Enforcement Board, or the County Court. Mr. Csogi asked where they are to take this information now. Mr. Palmer stated they ask staff to issue a charging document that puts the respondent in a position that they are ready for a public hearing, provide notice of the time and place, and it behooves them to be here if they so choose. Michelle Arnold asked in which forum. Mr. Palmer stated that this board now had the power to hold quasi-judicial hearings, issue fines, and revoke or suspend certificates. -Mr. Shriner asked Mr. Bridenthal how he came about the complaints. Mr. Bridenthal stated that it started with drivers calling in. Mr. Shriner asked how many people Mr. Bridenthal feels have left his company because of this. Mr. Bridenthal stated, probably 20 over the six years and over the last six months, the drivers have stopped calling in because they feel that no one will do anything about it. Mr. Shriner asked if the moral of the drivers is down due to the situation. Mr. Bridenthal stated yes. Mr. Shriner asked if Page 12 November 12, 2002 any of the drivers would be available for a hearing, to give testimony of factual evidence. Mr. Bridenthal stated that they would. -Mr. Arnold suggested that Mr. Bridenthal get with Jennifer in the County Attomey's Office, who would prosecute the case, and find out whether or not there are sufficient facts to sustain the violation and get her advice on how to proceed. -Mr. Walburn suggested that Mr. Bridenthal build a substantial case, get together, and come up with some substantial factual evidence. -Mr. Csogi did not agree, stating that if the County Attorney's Office felt there were enough facts, then they can issue the charging document and Code Enforcement can tell them if they need more or less. Mr. Csogi asked if Mr. Bridenthal understood what he needed to do with the County Attorney's Office in order to get the ball rolling. Mr. Bridenthal stated that he did understand. Nominations -Mr. Walbum nominated Mr. Csogi for the Chairman. There were no other nominations. Mr. Csogi accepted the nomination. -Mr. Walbum nominated Pat Baisley for the Vice Chairman. There were no other nominations. Pat Baisley accepted the nomination. -Michele Arnold apologized for any inconveniences caused by the late start of the meeting. X. Adjournment- Adjournment was at 12:50PM. Page 13