CLB Minutes 09/21/2016 September 21,2016
MINUTES
OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD MEETING
September 21, 2016
Naples, Florida
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Contractors' Licensing
Board, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 AM in
REGULAR SESSION in Administrative Building "F," 3rd Floor, Collier County
Government Complex, Naples, Florida, with the following Members present:
Chairman: Thomas Lykos
Vice Chair: Richard Joslin
Members: Elle Hunt
Terry Jerulle
Kyle Lantz
Gary McNally
Patrick White
Excused: Michael Boyd
Robert Meister
ALSO PRESENT:
Ian Jackson— Supervisor, Contractors' Licensing Office
Kevin Noell, Esq. —Assistant County Attorney
James F. Morey, Esq. —Attorney for the Contractors' Licensing Board
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Coit ier County
COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD
AGENDA
September 21, 2016
9:00 A.M.
COLLIER COUNTY GOVERNMENT CENTER
ADMINISTRATIVE BUILDING
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS CHAMBERS
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE
PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD
OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THAT TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH
THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
I. ROLL CALL:
II. ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS:
III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
A. August 20, 2016
V. PUBLIC COMMENTS:
A.
VI. DISCUSSION:
A.
VII. REPORTS:
A.
VIII. NEW BUSINESS:
A. Orders Of The Board
B. David Linscott-Schoolhouse Plumbing, Inc.- Review of Credit
C. Michael Paul Duke- Performance Turf LLC-Second Entity
D. Juan C Docampo- Patron Home Services- Review of Credit
E. Wallace Booth- Paradise Electrical Concepts&Solutions, Inc.- Review of Credit
F. Ben Mading-Adria Group- Reinstatement
IX. OLD BUSINESS:
A. Natalina Capone- PMT of Naples, Inc.-Second Entity
X. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
A. 2016-04—Jimmy M. Dean- D/B/A J. D. Design Construction, Inc.
XI. NEXT MEETING DATE: WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 19, 2016
COLLIER COUNTY GOVERNMENT CENTER
ADMINISTRATIVE BUILDING
THIRD FLOOR IN COMMISSIONER'S CHAMBERS
3299 E. TAMIAMI TRAIL
NAPLES, FL 34112
• September 21, 2016
Any person who decides to appeal a decision of this Board will need a record of the
proceedings and may need to ensure that a verbatim record of said proceedings is
made, which record includes the testimony and evidence upon which any Appeal is
to be based.
I. ROLL CALL:
Chairman Thomas Lykos opened the meeting at 9:01 AM and read the procedures to be
followed to appeal a decision of the Board.
Roll call was taken; a quorum was established; seven (7) voting members were present.
II. AGENDA—ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS:
• Under Item IV—"Approval of Minutes:"
o It was noted the minutes to be approved were from the August 17th
meeting and not August 20th as identified in the Agenda.
• Under Item VIII— "New Business:"
o (C) Michael Paul Duke—Application to Qualify a Second Entity was
withdrawn by the County and will be continued to a later date.
• Under Item X, "Public Hearings:"
o (A) Case#2016-04: Collier County Board of County Commissioners,
Plaintiff, vs. Jimmy M. Dean, d/b/a"I D. Design Construction, Inc.,"
Respondent, was withdrawn by the County and will be continued to a later
date.
III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
Patrick White moved to approve the Agenda as amended. Terry Jerulle offered a
Second in support of the motion. Carried unanimously, 7— 0.
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES—AUGUST 17, 2016:
Gary McNally moved to approve the Minutes of the August 17, 2016 meeting as
submitted. Patrick White offered a Second in support of the motion.
Carried unanimously, 7—0.
V. PUBLIC COMMENT:
(None)
VI. DISCUSSION:
(None)
VII. REPORTS:
(None)
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September 21,2016
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VIII. NEW BUSINESS:
A. Orders of the Board
Patrick White moved to approve authorizing the Chairman to sign the Orders of the
Board. Gary McNally offered a Second in support of the motion.
Carried unanimously, 7— 0.
(Note: With reference to the following cases heard under Section VIII, the individuals
who testified were first sworn by the Attorney for the Board.)
B. David Linscott—Review of Credit
(d/b/a "Schoolhouse Plumbing, Inc.")
Ian Jackson stated the application was referred to the Board for review because it did
not appear, on its face, to meet the requirements regarding financial responsibility
under Section 22-184(B) due to issues with Mr. Linscott's credit report.
Kyle Lantz questioned the Applicant:
Q. You have a business in Maine?
A. In Maine and New Hampshire—correct.
Q. And that's "Schoolhouse Plumbing,"the same as this?
A. Right.
Q. Is it the same corporation or a separate corporation?
A. Same corporation.
Patrick White questioned the Applicant:
Q. So it's a"d/b/a" ("doing business as ...") or a ...
A. It's a"Schedule S" corporation.
Q. I understand the tax purpose—but it's a foreign, I guess, Domestic Corporation?
A. No, it's a domestic—just a standard corporation.
Q. Well, "foreign" in the sense to Florida?
A. Correct.
Q. Okay.
A. Yes. I registered my corporation initially—it was set up in Maine years ago —it's
already been registered in Florida.
Q. Okay—just wanted to clarify.
Kyle Lantz directed his question to Staff, asking if Mr. Linscott's business was an
existing business, was the Board required to review the Applicant's personal credit or
not because his business had been operating for"a while"?
James Morey, Esq., Attorney to the Board, stated the Applicant's business was
relatively new to this jurisdiction—"That's a yes ... yes, you can."
Chairman Lykos stated if the Licensing Office Supervisor felt it was appropriate to
bring an application to the Board's attention for review since there was a question on
his part, it would be appropriate to bring it to the Board for our consideration.
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September 21,2016
Kyle Lantz: I wasn't asking if we should look at his credit—I was asking if we
should separate the business from the personal because I know there was—that we've
done in the past—a distinction where for existing businesses, we looked at the
business credit report but not the personal. I don't know where the"line" is drawn.
That's all I want clarified.
Attorney Morey: That's an excellent point. I think the crux of it is the referral from
the Licensing Supervisor—if he had concerns and referred it because of something on
the face of the application, it is up to the Board to review it.
Chairman Lykos: I think the Ordinance says that if a business has been in existence
for longer than one year and has an established credit report, then the Board would
not need to refer to the personal credit. While the applicant has been in business for
several years, it has not been in Collier County,
Patrick White: And not in the State of Florida. That's the point of making the
distinction about it being, effectively, a"foreign" corporation. I think the gist of it is
that for jurisdictional purposes, for the Department of State, and for the County itself,
what we have is a circumstance where it is a continuing business for federal tax
purposes—but from the State's perspective, it is a business that has only been in
existence since it was registered here as a foreign, domestic corporation. And for the
Board's purposes, it's fair to say that it is only for the duration it has existed in
Florida.
Vice Chairman Joslin: If another company or another corporation comes into
Collier County from any other state, they have to follow the same process?
Patrick White: They have a choice. They can create a"new" corporation—distinct
and different from the prior one -- but that's more of a federal tax consequence
determination or a business judgment. For the purposes of how we look at them, I
would say regardless of how long they have been in business somewhere else, their
Florida experience is relevant. The time frame of that business experience is relevant
and if it's under the [one year] threshold. To me, it's almost as if it is "new"—it's a
whole new market—a whole new set of customers—a whole new culture almost, in
many instances, of how you conduct business. To me, it's consistent with how we
see contractors—with a very close scrutiny.
Chairman Lykos: Thank you, Mr. White, for your analysis. I would also say if the
Licensing Supervisor thinks it is appropriate to bring an application before the Board,
then we can review it and make a determination.
Kyle Lantz: I wasn't asking if we should review the Applicant's information—I was
asking if we should review only the business or if we should look at business and
personal. That was my only question.
Patrick White: Both.
Patrick White questioned the Applicant:
Q. When I added up all of the outstanding balances from what appears to be largely
credit card debt, and the payment history on all of the accounts, I came up with
approximately $11,000 in total debt. I don't view that as a substantial amount
overall—your other business report indicates you are doing $160,000 in the
business. Why have some of these bills been around since 2008 ... 2012? What
is your plan to address those outstanding balances?
A. I guess the balances on those credit cards have been somewhat outstanding for a
couple of reasons. First of all, from a business standpoint, if you look at the
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September 21,2016
packet, the credit from my business is excellent. Unfortunately, on the personal
side—what we are talking about now—I've made some basic business errors that,
unfortunately, a lot of us are guilty of A lot of it has to do with cash flow. And
because of some poor billing practices, and a few business practices such as not
getting down payments and being overly generous with customers, I got behind
on my bills. I was making minimum payments, which was probably the worst
case scenario, and I was stretching out those payments because of the lack of cash
flow. Since then once I became aware of these particular issues, and honestly, my
credit—on the personal side—it was "out of sight, out of mind." I was not taking
out lines of credit—my fault—I take full responsibility for that because I did not
follow up on all my credit infoiniation. I let things slide. At this point in time,
I've made some major changes in my business as far as my billing practices, my
down payments, doing a budget, and also looking into getting rid of some
properties in Maine. I own several properties there. In the very short term, one of
my properties will be selling—it's on the market—and whatever balances I have
will be paid in full.
Q. Have you contacted any one of these creditors ...?
A. All of them—every one of them. And actually, my vehicle loan is current and two
of the credit cards are now current since this packet was given to you.
Q. Can you identify which those are—we've got Capital One ...
A. The American Express is current.
Q. There's an AmEx on here but ...
A. Yes —that's current.
Q. ... on Page Two ... it was current as of May, so that's a non-factor. It's primarily
the ones that ...
A. Home Depot is current and the truck line—I'm not sure which it is under here ...
Chairman Lykos questioned the Applicant:
Q. If I may, why don't we do this: Why don't we go to the bottom of the first page
of your credit report, and if Mr. Linscott could give us a quite sun-unary as we go
through the delinquent items —instead of having to jump around trying to find the
line items on his report. Do you understand my request?
A. Yes. Walmart—
Q. That's the second item—let's start with the first item ... the Capital One credit
card.
A. Capital One: I have contacted them and that is not current yet.
When asked if he had a payment plan in place with Capital One, David Linscott
replied he had been told to "do the best you can to bring it current."
It was noted the credit report stated the account had been closed. Mr. Linscott
responded while he could no longer use the credit card, he was still making payments
on the outstanding balance. He stated he was not aware that the balance had been
discharged by the creditor.
A. Walmart—it's the exact same situation as Capital One. The third one is, I think,
Lowe's and that is also the same situation.
Q. So you don't have a specific plan with those three vendors at this point?
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September 21, 2016
A. At this point, I have contacted them but they did not provide me with any specific
information or payment plan. The next one — I am unfamiliar with to be honest
with you—we are in the process of going through three different credit reports
trying to justify what's on them and the one on the top of the second page, I am
not familiar with.
It was noted the account number was the same as the previous item for Capital One
and it could be a duplicate report.
A. The next one is Barclay Bank that is current. DiTech is one month behind but
I've paid several months to bring it fairly close to being current. The next one—
Conventional Real—I have no idea of what that is. All the rest are current.
Vice Chairman Joslin questioned the Applicant:
Q. You had previously said because you didn't get your bills out correctly and didn't
take deposits—which this is what got you into this situation?
A. Well, in part. I have to take full responsibility for this—I'm in business for
myself and I have a lot of responsibility ... taking people's money and doing
work for them. There's no excuse other than just poor practices—it's as simple as
that. There was also another extenuating circumstance where, last year, I lost
approximately twenty thousand dollars on two particular jobs back in Maine
which was, obviously, a major hit. And on the advice of my attorney, going after
than money was going to cost me as much as I was owed. The bottom line was I
licked my wounds and moved on.
Q. You now say that since you bill correctly and take down payments, it will
alleviate some of the problems of handling your business. I'm just wondering if
that is your real intention.
A. Oh, absolutely.
Patrick White questioned the Applicant:
Q. Do you know what the equity is in the property that you have for sale?
A. I own the property outright, and it's on the market for$250,000.
Q. So you are saying your equity is one-quarter million dollars?
A. Yes. Plus I own a second home with approximately $200,000 equity in it.
Chairman Lykos commended the Applicant for his cover letter which displayed an
in-depth knowledge of the financial management of his company. It was good to see
someone who understands what caused the problems that he had—and who thought
through an action plan to overcome those challenges.
Patrick White questioned the Applicant:
Q. Do you have any sense of a time frame—based on how long the property for sale
in Maine has been on the market—what a projection may be to get it under
contract and closed?
A. The real estate market is a dicey thing but it's been on the market approximately
one month and we have had five showing and probably two legitimate individuals
looking at the property. I do not have yet but I am assuming that, by winter, it
will be gone.
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September 21, 2016
Kyle Lantz questioned the Applicant:
Q. Are you going to keep your business in Maine going? Are you going to be part-
time here and part-time in Maine?
A. When I spend time in Maine during the summer, I will probably continue doing
working there as well. But I have made a commitment to the State of Florida.
We live here full-time and I want to finish my career here and retire here.
Q. And your business in the past— is it one or two employees ... or larger?
A. It's just myself.
Q. This is going to be your main place, but you will be gone during the summers
theoretically?
A. Possibly. I will be here at a minimum of ten to eleven months a year.
Chairman Lykos asked Staff if the County had a recommendation.
Ian Jackson: In the past, we have issued probationary licenses with a review by the
Board after six months. I would not be opposed to recommending a six-month
review after issuing a probationary license.
Terry Jerulle: I think six months is a long time. In my option, Mr. Linscott should
come back with a business plan after he has contacted the remaining creditors that he
hasn't contacted and provide a payment plan.
Terry Jerulle questioned the Applicant:
Q. Do you have a contract with your clients?
A. Yes.
Q. You give your clients a piece of paper that they sign?
A. Correct.
Q. And in that contract, do you have terms and conditions?
A. Correct.
Q. Do you have in the terms and conditions of the contract where if your clients
don't pay you, they are responsible for your attorneys' fees?
A. That's true.
Q. Good. Do you have that in your contract?
A. We do.
Q. Because it doesn't seem as if you had it in your contracts in Maine—because if
your attorney is telling you it would cost you $20,000 to go after$20,000 —those
fees should be charged to the client.
A. Typically in these situations when we get into financial difficulties with large
amounts of money like that, suddenly the money ran out on the job. And when
the money runs out on the job, yes, we can bring them to court. But if there are
no assets to take or put a lien on ...
Q. That's all part of a business plan that I'm thinking of—that you should have,
right?
A. Correct.
Q. You bill for a deposit, and then you do work, and bill for that work.
A. Correct.
Q. And if you get behind the client, then you have a right to stop that work.
A. Correct.
Q. You don't continue to do work and not get paid. That's how you get into trouble.
•
• September 21, 2016
A. And I was guilty of that. To be honest with you, I wanted to do the right thing for
the customer and give him the benefit of the doubt which, ultimately, I paid for.
Patrick White:
Q. You heard me use the word, "culture,"before about marketplaces and business.
Clearly there is a philosophy, I think, that this Board has—it's not written down
anywhere—and what it sounds like, what you're doing already with regard to
credit card payments, down payments, and well-drafted and signed contracts —so
from my perspective, while I don't know that a business plan is going to help me,
I think your testimony is that with the large dollar amounts that are outstanding,
you have made contact. The plan is to make the payments and your commitment
is to make them. Based on the fact that you believe in the next three months
perhaps that property in Maine will sell and you will have sufficient assets to be
able to pay these off, I would be in favor of seconding the motion for six months
if the motion maker would agree to three.
Chairman Lykos stated before anyone of the Board started to negotiate duration, he
questioned what it was that Mr. White wanted the Applicant to achieve because that
goal would play into a time frame that the Board deteliuined would be appropriate for
that to get done.
Patrick White moved to approve granting the Applicant a probationary license for
three months. The Applicant is to appear before the Board at the end of the
probationary period and provide updated business and personal credit reports. He
will also provide proof of payment of the outstanding balances or documentation of
payment plans agreed to by each creditor.
Kyle Lantz offered a Second in support and suggested amending the motion to
include that if the outstanding balances have been paid in full and the Applicant
provides proof of payment to the Licensing Supervisor, it will not be necessary for
the Applicant to appear before the Board.
It was noted the proof of payment could include copies of cancelled checks or letters
from the creditors since there is a lag between when information is reported to a
credit bureau and the credit report is updated.
It was acknowledged if Staff is satisfied with the documentation produced by the
Applicant, he would not be required to appear before the Board and a full license
could be issued administratively.
Patrick White accepted Kyle Lantz's amendment to the motion.
David Linscott stated he understood the motion and what he was required to
accomplish during the next three months.
Chairman Lykos called for a vote on the amended motion.
Carried unanimously, 7— 0.
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• September 21, 2016
C. Michael Paul Duke—Application to Qualify a Second Entity
(Current Qualifier for: "Performance Turf LLC.")
(Note: This item was withdrawn from the Agenda by the County and will be
continued to another date.)
D. Juan C. Docampo —Review of Credit
(d/b/a "Patron Home Services")
Ian Jackson stated the application was referred to the Board due to issues with the
credit report—it did not meet the requirements for financial responsibility and his
FICO score was below the threshold noted in the Florida Administrative Code of 660.
Juan Docampo:
• Admitted there were several delinquencies on his credit report;
• He became a single father in 2011 as the result of an"ugly divorce"—he and
his wife separated in 2009 and were divorce in 2013. During the separation,
his wife ran up the credit cards, incurred a car loan, and caused their home to
go foreclosure due to non-payment of the mortgage.
• He stated even though his ex-wife caused the delinquencies, he took
responsibility and paid the debts. "Since 2011, everything has been current. I
am trying to legitimatize myself with this County so I can make money and
raise my kids here."
Patrick White questioned the Applicant:
Q. After looking at the past dues and balance amounts owed, I don't come up with
much more than $3,300.
A. Correct.
Q. Have you contacted one or more of these creditors? Have they given you an idea
of what their expectations are? Have you sought to provide them with a payment
plan?
A. Honestly, currently, I have not. bike I said, these are really my ex-wife's
delinquencies even though they are under my name. I am willing to do that but,
in the meantime, my cash flow hasn't been enough to cover that since I'm a single
Dad raising two girls—it only goes so far—and if I call and try to make an
arrangement and I don't come through, I think I look worse than continuing to
make my current credit better and allowing my delinquencies to kind of just flow
back, if you can understand that.
Q. I think I understand it—what I think I hear you saying is you are not making
payments.
A. Currently, on the delinquent items, I am not.
Vice Chairman Joslin questioned the Applicant:
Q. On any of them?
A. No, sir.
Q. Do you currently have custody of the children?
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September 21, 2016
A. Ido.
Chairman Lykos questioned the Applicant:
Q. Are you working now?
A. I am.
Q. And are you working for somebody else or what are you doing?
A. I am working part-time for Jenny Custom Cabinets.
Patrick White:
Q. Is it your intention to continue the part-time job if you were to obtain a license?
A. My intention is to —I've had the corporation since I moved to Collier County and
my intention is to build my own business. I have a pretty good set of clientele and
I think I'm known enough around town where I can keep my current job but start
to flow over into my own business. As I said, I want to legitimatize myself as my
own business and carry on and hopefully grow so I can have more to pay off these
bills and to raise my kids—to give them everything that we need.
Chairman Lykos:
Q. On your application, Mr. Docampo, you list the officers and managing members
of your film and it lists Orlando Docampo and Iris Docampo.
A. Yes—that's my father and my step-mother.
When asked if his parents would be paid, Juan Docampo replied his step-mother
would not be paid but his would be paid. He said he father is retired but willing to
help him out.
Kyle Lantz:
Q. You've shown a Workers' Comp exemption just for you. So how would your
father get paid?
A. He would get paid for any time when he helps me out. As of right now, it's just
me.
Q. So how would you pay him? Would you have a Workers' Comp policy for him?
A. Of course. Once he starts working—or once we get this thing going—I'm going
to get his Workers' Comp exemption as well since he's a managing officer, he
also qualifies.
Q. On the front page of the application, you have the specialty trade as "cabinet
installation," and it seems like it has been mixed throughout the application—
sometimes it looks like you are going for a cabinet installers' license and
sometimes it looks like you're going for a cabinet installer and painters' license?
A. Correct. I have a trade exam on October 1St for painting and decorating. My
history goes back in the mid-2000s; I've done a lot of painting. I can paint
cabinetry—I've painted houses and everything else. I worked for "84 Lumber"
and I oversaw a lot of the work that was done there. I was responsible for quality
control and things of that nature. I installed sales. So I know a lot about what
goes into a job and how to get it done correctly. I have experience in painting and
that's why I'm trying to flow it that way—so I can do the cabinetry installs, the
trim installs and actually finish them off completely, rather than selling a trim
install and saying, "Well, now you have to find yourself a painter."
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September 21,2016
Q. So, you're applying for the cabinetry license now and as soon as you pass the
exam, your intention is to ...
A. Correct.
Q. ... apply for the painting license. You have had your experience verified by a few
people. You said you work right now for Jenny Custom Cabinets?
A. Correct.
Q. They were one person who verified your experience. What about the others?
One was a drywall guy and a plumber. So, how does that work?
A. Okay—the drywall guy was a friend of mine when I first moved here and I've
done a lot of follow-up work for him. Unfortunately, it was on the side but he
knows the kind of work that I've done. And I've gone behind him when he does
patch work or plastering and I've done the kind of work to finish it off—texture
patching and after that,priming and painting. So he knows the kind of work that I
do in that nature—and hanging "crown" [molding] as well. The plumber is
actually a personal friend of mine and I've done work for him personally. Bill
McFarlane of Shamrock and that's the only extent, really.
Q. You did work for his business?
A. No, for him personally. I've just done things for him—not getting paid. His son
is my neighbor and I've become really good friends with that family and I've
done work for him. He can vouch for the quality of work that I've done in his
personal home. I've done work—not for pay—but just as a friend.
Q. How long have you worked for Jenny Custom Cabinets?
A. From 2013 to current.
Q. At Jenny, they said you did painting? Are you painting cabinets?
A. I paint cabinetry.
Q. On site or in a shop?
A. At their shop.
Chairman Lykos:
Q. I am impressed with your initiative, your understanding of things, and your
explanation of what you are trying to accomplish. But we have to deal with this
debt.
A. Absolutely.
Q. I am hoping my fellow board members will come up with a plan where we can
address the debt to meet the County's requirements and help you further your
career.
Vice chairman Joslin stated this case mirrored the previous case heard by the Board,
and Mr. Docamp's debt was must less than that of the previous Applicant.
Juan Docampo: If you look at some of these debts on my credit report, on the first
page, the first two are actually repetitive—it's one sold to the other, but the credit
report shows it as two separate items. The first one on the second page was a Fire
Rescue ride in 2011 where I almost died and they are overcharging me. I refuse to
pay another cent more than what was paid—it was close to $2,000 for a twenty-
minute ride. Everything else was paid by my insurance company. If things go well, I
do have friends who are willing to pay this thing off for me and let me continue to
make payments—if that's something that you are willing to entertain. If I can come
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September 21, 2016
out of here and say, "Hey, I got my license but I need to do this," I have people in
place who can take care of it for me immediately.
Kyle Lantz:
Q. If we were to say that as soon as you give proof to the Licensing Board Office
Supervisor that your debts are paid in full, we will issue a license—could you
make that happen?
A. I would prefer to have the license first. I have a quarter of the debt of the last guy
but I wouldn't have a license when I left here.
Q. So how long would it take you—realistically, if we gave you the license today,
how long would it take ... and I don't care if you owe your friends—that's not my
concern right now. But how long would it take to get the creditors paid off?
A. I'd say before the end of the year.
Chairman Lykos:
Q. Let's go back a little bit. You said there was duplication on your credit report—
show me where that is.
A. On the first page of my personal credit report—it's the 3rd and 4t" items. If you
see the dates and the amounts for Mariner Finance and Sunbelt Credit, they are
the same. That was an auto loan that my ex-wife took out with Sunbelt and it was
sold to Mariner Finance.
Q. The outstanding balances are different amounts but you are correct. The credit
limit is the same and the dates are the same. As Mr. White said, you have about
$3,300 of debt. And your credit score isn't that far below what the State requires.
As Mr. Joslin said, your situation is similar to the previous Applicant. But I
would respectfully disagree because the previous Applicant had an operating
business in another state—he was moving that business to Florida—he had
experience running a business—he had some challenges, understood why he had
those challenges, and had a plan to overcome those challenges. We have a young
man here who wants to start his own company but hasn't really done that yet.
Chairman Lykos noted the situations were not similar and pointed out one Applicant
was an experienced tradesman and knew how to run a business while the other has
about three years' experience working at Jenny with no experience running a
business.
Vice Chairman Joslin replied the previous Applicant got into trouble with his
business in another state and had come to Collier County—it was basically like he
had nothing because he had no credentials in Collier County—and this man has none
either. So, technically, the two are similar. This Applicant is much closer to the
minimums on the credit report that was the other gentleman.
Vice Chairman Joslin moved to approve granting a probationary license to the
Applicant for a period of ninety days. At the end of the probationary period, he is
to provide proof to the Licensing Office that he had paid his debts or he will be
required to appear before the Board and provide an updated credit report, a written
business plan, and proof of payment plans for each creditor. Patrick White offered
a Second in support of the motion.
12
September 21, 2016
Discussion:
Terry Jerulle explained to the Applicant if he did not accomplish what was required
in the motion, he would not have a license.
Juan Docampo stated he understood what he was expected to do.
Patrick White noted if Mr. Docampo provided sufficient proof to the Licensing
Office Supervisor, he would not be required to appear before the Board again.
Juan Docampo stated he would negotiate the amounts down or pay them off because
he did not want to have those issues on his credit report.
Chairman Lykos called for a vote on the motion. Carried unanimously, 7— 0.
E. Wallace Booth—Review of Credit
(d/b/a "Wallace Booth Electric, LLC. "
Transfer to and qualify: "Paradise Electrical Concepts &Solutions, Inc.")
Chairman Lykos noted the Applicant's credit would be reviewed and that he wished
to transfer his license from one entity to another.
Ian Jackson stated Mr. Booth had been qualifying Wallace Booth Electric, LLC. He
submitted an application to qualify Paradise Electrical Concepts & Solutions, Inc.
After reviewing the business credit report for the currently qualified company,
"Wallace Booth Electric, LLC," there were federal and State tax liens noted on it that
prohibited transferring his license to qualify Paradise Electrical Concepts &
Solutions, Inc. without the Board's review.
Chairman Lykos: Let me see if I understand. There is an existing entity that is
qualified?
Ian Jackson: Yes.
Chairman Lykos: And the Applicant wants to transfer his license from one entity to
the other but because of the credit issues, Staff cannot make the transfer happen
without approval from the Board?
Ian Jackson: Correct.
Terry Jerulle: Since the Applicant has a tax lien on the existing company, doe he
qualify to renew that existing company?
Ian Jackson: Yes.
Terry Jerulle: Why is that?
Ian Jackson: That's the way our Code is written. If Mr. Booth renews on time
every year, an updated credit report is not required. If Mr. Booth did not renew
before December 31', an updated credit report would be required when he applied to
renew his suspended license.
Chairman Lykos questioned the Applicant:
Q. Mr. Booth, why do you want to transfer your license from one entity to another?
A. I had some financial issues brought about by my bookkeeper and I, basically, am
transferring and becoming a partnership with Paradise and some other people. We
will gain more financially and will also have a better bookkeeping system.
13
11
September 21,2016
Kyle Lantz questioned the Applicant:
Q. What is your intention with the tax liens?
A. The one for the State has been paid off at this moment. We are working with the
IRS to negotiate and get a settlement agreement in place.
Q. Do you have any documentation proving the State lien has been paid?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. Do you have an anticipated time line for the federal lien?
A. On the federal one—we have just started negotiating with them and getting
paperwork together to submit to them so that they can tell us what our next step
will be.
It was noted that Mr. Booth submitted a copy of the paid State tax lien to Staff.
Chairman Lykos:
Q. What will happen to your existing entity?
A. The existing entity will be, basically, shut down.
Q. Do you have other debt associated with that entity besides this tax lien?
A. No, I do not.
Q. No other trade debt?
A. No. All the materials I have ever bought were with cash.
Kyle Lantz: Personally, I have a hard time allowing him to qualify another business
before the federal lien is taken care of.
Terry Jerulle: I would agree.
Gary McNally questioned the Applicant:
Q. As I look through the credit report, you indicated that you have no other debt. But
I see two small items that were placed for collection. Have they been paid? They
are personal but I'm just curious.
A. I do not have that report—the personal credit report.
Ian Jackson stated the two items were medical and should be viewed a little differently
than other lien items.
Elle Hunt questioned the Applicant:
Q. How long has the current company been in business?
A. Since 2009.
Kyle Lantz:
Q. Paradise Electric does not have a Qualifier currently?
A. It does not.
Chairman Lykos:
Q. Why can't your partner in Paradise just become part of the existing business?
A. Because we are re-organizing it and we're renaming it.
14
. September 21, 2016
Vice Chairman Joslin: In the past, I have seen other cases come through the Board
with the same situation—federal tax liens. There is a way—if you contact the IRS —
that they will set you up with a payment plan.
Wallace Booth: Yes, and we are in the process of working on that.
Vice Chairman Joslin: I would probably like to see that happen before we get too
far involved in issuing another license.
Chairman Lykos: I want the Applicant to understand what issues the Board
members might have because assuming that the Applicant, and/or his future partners,
take some action—I want that action to be sufficient enough to accomplish what they
want to accomplish. If the Board's decision is that they have to come back, that their
action is sufficient—rather than just make a decision without the Applicant having an
understanding of why—that's what I'm trying to accomplish.
Michael Pascale appeared as a witness on behalf of the Applicant and was sworn in
by the Board's attorney.
Michael Pascale:
• He is a General Contractor—Distinctive Construction, Inc.
• He is one of the partners for Paradise Electrical Concepts & Solutions, Inc.
• He confirmed the State tax lien had been paid.
• Regarding the federal lien, confirmed they were working with the IRS. He
stated the amount of the lien on Mr. Booth's credit report was an estimated
amount because he had not filed business tax returns from 2012 to 2015.
• He explained Wallace Booth Electric was an "LLC" but filed as an"S"
Corporation
• He stated the bookkeeper had the information and was supposed to have filed
the tax infoirriation—after several months have obtained the information from
the previous bookkeeper and the returns will be filed.
• The IRS has extended the time to file the late returns to mid-January, 2017.
After the returns have been filed, the IRS will determine the correct amount of
the lien and a payment plan can be put in place.
• We are "aggressively trying to pursue this. We had a tough time getting the
information but now that we have it, we can file the proper documents with
the IRS."
Chairman Lykos questioned the Witness:
Q. Is there a reason why you can't just pay the amount of the lien and then go back
and file the tax returns-file amended tax returns—and then make the
adjustments in a current year or a future year's tax returns?
A. You mean the $20,000?
Q. Correct?
A. I don't know the answer to that. To be honest with you, we didn't ask that
question when we were having conversations with the IRS.
Chairman Lykos explained that an LLC filing as a Subchapter "S"—the income
from the company gets passed through to the owners and the taxes are paid through
15
September 21,2016
the owners' personal income tax return. You still have to file a business tax return
but the income is really passed through to the owners of the business. If you pay the
tax, then the lien goes away. Then you can file amended returns and once they are
corrected, and if there is a refund that is due, it would be applied to a future tax
liability.
Michael Pascale noted the tax returns had never been filed so they could not be
"amended."
Chairman Lykos: Depending on how long this takes, there will be interest and
penalties applied to the amount as well.
Patrick White: That may be what the estimated amount is based upon and that
would be the point of any negotiation—trying to get to a current figure.
Chairman Lykos noted if the tax lien had been paid, the Applicant would not have
had to appear before the Board because his personal credit score, it was because of
the tax lien. If he paid the lien, he would be able to go to work. Both Mr. Jerulle and
Mr. Lantz asked if it wasn't for the tax lien would the Applicant be required to appear
before the Board, and the answer was no.
Patrick White stated he was not a tax attorney and was not in a position to establish
what the better course of action would be for the Applicant. His concern was with
respect to how he has managed his current business and will manage the business to
which his license will be transferred. And if there is some timeframe with which the
Board is comfortable to issue a probationary license for the matter to be resolved—that's
one thing. If the Board doesn't have a comfort level with that, then they have to make a
choice of how they are to conduct themselves and he will potentially have to come back
once it's resolved.
Terry Jerulle: I certainly don't feel comfortable. You testified that you haven't paid
taxes for—did I understand you haven't paid taxes for four years?
Michael Pascale: He hasn't filed the returns nor paid any income tax for four years.
Terry Jerulle: So personally, you haven't paid? I'm not sure how that's a
bookkeeping problem and not a personal problem. I'm asking you—How do you
blame a bookkeeper for not filing taxes for four years?
Wallace Booth: The bookkeeper who was taking care of it all, did it all electronically.
I never saw it—there were IRS payments coming out of the business account to pay
these things so I assumed everything was being taken care of. It was the same thing
with the State of Florida.
Terry Jerulle: But there is an IRS form that everybody signs at the end of the year.
You didn't sign that?
Wallace Booth: I've not signed them since 2009 because everything was
electronically filed.
Terry Jerulle: Shouldn't that be, like, a red flag? I can see maybe one year—but four
years straight not signing an IRS form? It's almost a conscience decision, not a
bookkeeping decision.
Wallace Booth: When I filed for 2009, there was no document signed. It was all done
electronically on their website.
Terry Jerulle: But you still signed? Even though it's electronically, you're still
providing your electronic signature.
Wallace Booth: Okay— she was the one taking care of the electronic signature.
16
September 21, 2016
Chairman Lykos: Over the course of the last four or five years, you've had no need
to review your personal income tax return? To submit it to a bank or—you've never
had the occasion in the last four years to look at your tax returns?
Wallace Booth: I never looked at them for the simple fact is, okay, I had money— I
was still operating the business—everything was getting paid ...
Chairman Lykos: But everything was not getting paid. And what you're asking us
to do is to allow you the opportunity to take your license and go operate a new
business with that same license. And I understand that you have new people who are
going to help you run the finances—but all we have is history that indicates future
performance to us. That's all that anybody ever has—history to anticipate
somebody's future performance. And your history is—by your own admission—that
you did not personally handle those returns ... you never reviewed them ... you
didn't sign them ... and until this occasion arose, you didn't even know what was
going on! How are we supposed to feel comfortable allowing you to go operate
another business? That's a legitimate question. How do you anticipate that, based on
your testimony today, and the evidence that's been presented to us, that we are to
have the confidence in you to move forward to operate the financial well-being of a
second entity after what you have provided in testimony to us today?
Wallace Booth: It is —I thought everything was going right. I made a mistake. And,
yes, I am ultimately responsible for that mistake. I just assumed that the people that I
had doing stuff for me were taking care of it. They did not. I am getting together with
another group of people who have the knowledge and I am going to be sitting there
being move involved. We are planning to have meetings where we will sit there and
discuss this and we will know what's going on with all aspects of the business.
Chairman Lykos: Unfortunately, there are too many people in our industry who think
somebody is doing the books and somebody else is managing the money—when you
have a license, you ultimately have all the responsibility for every part of your business.
You can delegate responsibility but you cannot abdicate it.
Wallace Booth: I understand that.
Chairman Lykos: You learned it the hard way.
Wallace Booth: Yes, I did.
Vice Chairman Joslin: The reason why he is before us is not to qualify a second
entity, I don't think. He's here to transfer his license from Wallace Booth Electric,
LLC to qualify Paradise Electrical Concepts which, in essence, means that Wallace
Booth won't have a qualifier.
Ian Jackson: Correct.
Vice Chairman Joslin: That's a big concern. Wallace Booth is no longer going to be
in business. So the tax lien against Wallace Booth Electric, or the tax liens that are
filed against him, aren't going to apply to Paradise Electrical are they?
Wallace Booth: No, they are going to apply to me personally.
Vice Chairman Joslin: Okay. I'm definitely not comfortable with that.
Patrick White: I think the point of it is—as we have with new applicants who come in
and have credit issues—the argument often is, "If I don't get the license, I won't be
able to have the income and won't be able to make the payments." I think that's a
rational and fair argument. It's similar here. What I believe they are saying is, "We
have made all of the good-faith efforts after the problems were identified,"to not only
17
September 21, 2016
pay off one of the liens but to negotiate for and intend to pay off what may be agreed
upon as an amount on the federal tax lien. The question in my mind isn't about the
adequacy of the past practice but, rather, what is going forward in Paradise with the
lessons learned. To me, if there's a time frame within which the words that we are
hearing today of future performance can be actualized, meaning they pay off the lien,
then—to me— it is similar to the prior two cases where we gave someone an
opportunity. There were no indications that they were defrauding anyone or
circumstances where customers were harmed, there were no questions about the quality
of the work, it was simply a credit review issue. Given the stellar credit report that I
think he has on the personal side, I understand my colleagues' concerns—but I don't
share them.
Terry Jerulle: That's fine, Patrick. But I don't share yours as well. This wasn't the
economy that caused the problem, it wasn't a medical condition that caused the
problem, it wasn't due to a divorce which caused the problem—this is incompetency in
his business that, in my opinion, caused the problem—from his testimony. It doesn't
give me the comfort level—not that I wouldn't approve it in the future without more
documentation and having a business plan; more documentation having contacted the
IRS and making some payments, and/or more documentation of a payment plan. But
sitting here today with the information, I just don't feel comfortable at all.
Kyle Lantz questioned Michael Pascale:
Q. Tell me a little bit about—I feel the same reservations that Terry and Tom feel — so
tell me a little bit about Paradise Electric. Mr. Pascale, you are one of the partners
in Paradise Electric and you are also a General Contractor? You are currently a
General Contractor?
A. Correct.
Q. Not Paradise Electric—a different entity?
A. Yes, a General Contractor.
Q. And you're still going to maintain your general contracting company?
A. Yes.
Q. So, you'll be an owner of two different companies —but now you'll have an electric
company as well.
A. I will be a part owner in.Paradise Electric—okay? And I'll also still have
Distinctive Construction, Inc.
Q. And who is going to run Paradise Electric?
A. Paradise Electric is going to be run by Michael Pascale, Gregory Pascale, and
Wallace Booth.
Q. The three of you will run it?
A. Yes.
Q. What will be everybody's duties?
A. My duties—okay—will be ... I'm responsible for the financial and all the
administrative, okay. Gregory and Beau are responsible for the field—scheduling
the jobs and inspecting the jobs.
Q. What kind of work do you anticipate Paradise Electric doing? Construction, re-
model, service ...?
A. Remodel and service right now is the plan. Okay? They will do, basically,
Distinctive work—it will be in-house. Not that Distinctive will using strictly
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• September 21, 2016
Paradise—they will use other electrical companies, too. But it will alleviate some
of that.
Q. But Paradise will do work for Distinctive as well as ...
A. Paradise will do work for Distinctive as well as service work.
Q. Okay.
A. But they will not do work, right now, for another General Contractor—they are
just not that large that they would be able to do that.
Q. I do not feel that he should qualify a new business until he has settled up his old
business and I get Patrick's argument where you need the license to move ahead,
but I don't think that's the case in this situation because can't your current
General Contractor business just sub-out Wallace Booth Electric until he gets this
straightened out? When he gets it straightened out, then make Paradise—it
doesn't sound as if he's missing anything because he's just going to work for your
company anyway except as a sub. Why not hire Wallace Booth Electric instead
of Paradise Electric?
A. That is a possibility—which is basically how we are handling it right now up until
we decided to set up the Paradise ...
Patrick White: The thing in my mind is at what point do you cut off—if you will—
Wallace Booth? Their request today is we want to cut Wallace Booth off now and start
with Paradise while we go through the process of resolving Wallace Booth Electric's
lingering federal tax lien. The alternative approach that it seems this Board is leaning
to is one that says, "Well, that's great but you need to come back after you have gone
through the process." I'm comfortable and believe that all I've heard tells me they are
going to get it done in the next ninety days and it they do, great. If they don't, then they
are really done.
Kyle Lantz: They have said their meeting is not until the middle of January, 2017,
when they will start making a plan—not have it solved.
Michael Pascale: Let me just correct that, we're filing the tax returns and IRS has
given us up to January to get them in. Okay? And then, what will happen is—they
will have an actual dollar amount, along with penalties and interest, and we will have
a firm dollar amount. At that point, we will negotiate what the payment plan will be
—the installment plan. Our plan is we will take the IRS up on the installment plan but
we are also going to give them some up-front money to show that we are making the
effort to get this done. We plan to have the tax returns filed before the end of this
year. That's a priority for us.
Patrick White: Let's assume for the sake of discussion that the Board denies the
request for today. They will come back at some point after they have negotiated and
have a plan—then the questions that will be in our minds are, "How do we know that
you will keep the plan?" and "How long do we want to monitor you under the plan to
ensure that if we give you a probationary license, it becomes a full license?" What
I'm trying to share is that I feel fairly comfortable that those things will take place.
There has been nothing to indicate in either the personal or the business history, or in
the business plan that's been shared with us, that there is any reason for concern that
it is not going to be implemented. I don't know how to tight we want to follow up
based on the fact that Mr. Booth had failed to follow up, and kind of be a substitute
for his judgment that was flawed in the past but, as we see today, he has learned from
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• September 21,2016
that lesson and is engaged/involved with people who have a clear plan on how to fix
that problem and keep it from happening again. The monitoring system would be
fully in place. Do we have to substitute our monitoring over the span of two years,
for example, with probationary licensing to keep an eye on him?
Kyle Lantz: I just see it differently. I get what you are saying. I just feel, fix the
problem and then get the license. I ...
Chairman Lykos: Well, we have no monitoring—we don't have to decide until later
—anything.
Kyle Lantz: And he can go to work today or tomorrow—he can keep doing what he
is doing—keep operating the way he plan on operating ...
Patrick White: And that's a perfectly rational and appropriate response.
Vice Chairman Joslin: Since they are going to be in business together anyway, they
can still coordinate themselves and discuss this with the IRS, or make their plan to get
this to happen. Or, it could happen sooner. I think it would be the smartest way to do
it.
Terry Jerulle: We are not taking anything away from him—he has a license and can
operate in the County. When he came in here, he said that he would dissolve the other
company but there's nothing here that proves he will. That company [Wallace Booth
Electric] could stay open forever as well—not that it makes any difference in
anything. I'm just not inclined to ...
Patrick White: You don't want to reward someone for a failure to monitor. I
understand that.
Chairman Lykos: I don't think it's that we don't want to "reward" someone for a
failure—it's a matter of ... Let's say, for example, that Mr. White's assumption about
their plan is correct. It's a matter of execution—it's not about punishing a failure—
it's about saying, well—you have a plan to execute and you are at the beginning of
the plan and I know I would rather see you closer to the end of the plan. It's about
execution— it isn't about punishment.
Patrick White: I don't disagree. The point is: if he were to get a probationary
license for Paradise, in about three months from now,the monitoring we would put in
place would be for him to come back to show that you have implemented the plan ...
then that's different from saying ... once you have implemented the plan, come back
and talk to us.
Chairman Lykos: How much easier would this be if the packet had proof the IRS
lien was paid and had verification; that Wallace Booth Electric was closed and had
verification ...
Patrick White: Staff would have issued the license.
Chairman Lykos: Exactly. Mr. Lantz wants to make a motion.
Kyle Lantz moved to deny the application. Patrick White offered a Second in
support of the motion.
Michael Pascale: Will I be able to say something before the vote?
Patrick White: I would be interested in hearing what Mr. Pascale has to say.
Chairman Lykos stated since a motion had been made and it had a second, he would
open the floor to discussion from the Board members and then they would hear from
Mr. Pascale.
20
September 21, 2016
Discussion:
• Attorney James Morey, Attorney for the Board, directed his question to the
Licensing Office Supervisor: How does denial impact a re-application process?
• Ian Jackson replied: The Applicant would re-apply. If the new application
meets the requirements of our Code, I would issue the license.
• Patrick White asked if there were a time constraint to re-apply and Ian
Jackson's response was, "no."
• Vice Chairman Joslin noted they could work out a plan with the IRS and re-
apply but would still appear before the Board.
• Chairman Lykos confirmed while the Applicant would still appear before the
Board, at that time, he would have a written plan.
Chairman Lykos asked Mr. Pascale if he would like to make a comment before the
vote was taken.
Michael Pascale: I think if I were sitting on that side, I would have some concerns,
too. What I would like to say is that I have been in business for thirty years; I've
owned various businesses, and I have a financial background. None of my other
companies have ever been in trouble. We've never had any problems. Unfortunately,
Mr. Booth has never had the luxury of having somebody with that much financial
experience that he could "tap." Because of that, I am very comfortable that this
relationship is going to work out. You may or may not know that dealing with the
IRS can be—I mean—it takes a lot of time, especially when you are on the phone and
waiting an hour to an hour and fifteen minutes for them to answer. It's been a slow
process but the key is to get the tax returns done. We didn't have the information to
that but we're working on that. And now that we have it, that's our number one
priority. But if we weren't forthcoming, you could see that we wouldn't have even
attempted to go to the Florida Department of Revenue and take care of the lien right
away. You may say that it's a small amount ($2,646)—and it was —but that really
wasn't the idea. The idea of it was the information was readily available, it was very
easy to do—they were very cooperative and we took advantage of that, okay?
Dealing with the IRS, unfortunately, is not that smooth of an operation but it doesn't
mean that we're not going to be aggressive —as aggressive as we can to take care of
it. We really want to get this behind us and, again, like I said—with my experience—
this is an issue that's not going to happen again.
Chairman Lykos: I think Mr. Booth was lucky to have found somebody like you
with your background and your skills to help him move forward.
Chairman Lykos stated there was a motion and a second before the Board. He
called for a vote on the motion.
Motion carried, 6— "Yes"/1 — "No." Patrick White was opposed.
Michael Pasquale asked what they were required to do.
Chairman Lykos explained there was no specific reason for the denial. Based on the
comments of the Board, if the federal tax lien is paid and you have verification of that
—when you re-apply, Ian Jackson will be able to issue the license administratively
21
September 21, 2016
and you will not be required to appear before the Board. The only reason you were
here was because of the federal tax lien. That is the easiest and cleanest solution. If
you are able to negotiate an agreement with the Internal Revenue Service and provide
documentation of that, when you re-apply, I anticipate that your case would come
back before the Licensing Board again and I anticipate that with the agreement in
place, you would probably—no promises—but you would probably get a different
response from the Board. Personally, I would like to have something that
documented about how Wallace Booth Electric, LLC was going to be dissolved—
have it already done or about to be dissolved, i.e., produce a copy of your letter to the
State concerning dissolving the LLC so that we know—because Wallace Booth
Electric, LLC could be out running up a tab, creating debt, and filing bankruptcy—
and all the revenue ends up going to the new entity. For me, personally, to know that
is not going to happen ...
Michael Pasquale: We wouldn't be able to close that company until the license gets
transferred, correct?
Chairman Lykos explained a contractor can be a license hold and not qualify an
entity.
Michael Pasquale: Okay.
Chairman Lykos: For me, personally, to know that the other entity is not out there—
yes, you can close Wallace Booth Electric, LLC and take the license and have only a
single entity that gets qualified.
Michael Pasquale: Okay—very good. Thank you for your time. We appreciate it.
BREAK: 10:25 AM
RECONVENED: 10:42 AM
F. Ben Mading—Petition for Reinstatement
(d/b/a "Adria Group")
Ian Jackson stated he distributed additional paperwork during the break concerning
this case —it was an updated T-U credit monitoring report. He suggested the Board
members may wish to take a few moments to review it.
Terry Jerulle disclosed to the Board that he worked with an electrical contractor who
employed Ben Madding on a project approximately five years ago. He stated it
would not have any bearing on his decision making in this case.
Attorney Morey stated the contact was remote and there was no current financial
interest.
Chairman Lykos asked if the Applicant had submitted the documentation and the
response from Staff was, "yes."
Ian Jackson provided a brief history:
• The Applicant appeared before the Board in September, 2015 to waive the
requirement for re-testing for reinstatement and for a credit review.
• He was granted a six-month probationary license at that meeting and was to
appear before the Board in May, 2016.
22
•
September 21, 2016
• The Applicant was unable to attend the May, 2016 meeting and his license
was suspended by the Board.
• Currently, his license is suspended pending a review of his credit report.
Chairman Lykos asked the Applicant if the credit report that had been distributed
was the most current credit report.
A. That is correct. When I was here at the first meeting (September, 2015), we ran a
credit check and there was probably around $16,000 worth of debt that was out
there. Since then I negotiated all of it and have paid 95%, if not all of it, to date.
There was a judgment that you will see that I have satisfied. In the last credit
report that I just ran, there were a couple of items that— I have to review it again—
but as I said, out of the $16,000—99% of it is paid.
(There was a pause in the proceedings while the Board reviewed the newest credit
report.)
The amounts are less because I negotiated with each of the creditors.
Q. In reading through the previous Order of the Board, we did not give Mr. Mading
any specific direction on what to accomplish. It looks as if we just suspended his
probationary license—looking for improvement in his credit score—because he
was not present at the May meeting. There was no specific direction.
Vice Chairman Joslin asked why the Applicant did not attend the May meeting.
A. My daughter passed away in March, 2016.
Elle Hunt noted there was a public record of a lien in the amount of$3,100.
A. Yes, and there is a page in the credit report showing that I satisfied it. I paid that
off—the whole amount.
Vice Chairman Joslin moved to approve terminating the probation and reinstating
the Applicant's Electrical Contractor's license in full. Terry Jerulle offered a
Second in support of the motion. Carried unanimously, 7—0.
IX. OLD BUSINESS:
A. Natalina Capone—Application to Qualify a Second Entity
(Current Qualifier for: "Signature Surfaces, LLC."
Second Entity: "PMT of Naples, Inc.")
Chairman Lykos summarized the previous meeting where Ms. Capone had
requested to qualify a Second Entity. The Board had some questions about her
packet, her employment agreement with the Second Entity, and her understanding of
her financial responsibilities. And her application was tabled by the Board.
Natalina Capone stated she had submitted an agreement and a revised Profit and
Loss Statement.
23
. September 21,2016
Chairman Lykos: You submitted additional infouniation based on the Board's
comments?
Natalina Capone: Yes.
Chairman Lykos: Tell us what you have done this month that is different than from
last month.
A. I hired a lawyer and we did a legal agreement between PMT of Naples, Inc. and
myself. It states I will be paid 10% of the gross sales of the business on a bi-
weekly basis. I will be in charge of payroll, paying payables and receivables,
quality control at the jobsite, supervision, and estimating support. The owner will
be in charge of sales, installation, hiring/firing, and scheduling. I will support him
in anything else that he needs with estimating. It's all in the legal agreement that
we both signed and you have a copy.
Q. If I remember correctly, Ms. Hunt led the conversation about the agreement.
A. Yes.
Chairman Lykos asked Elle Hunt if she had an opportunity to review the agreement
and did it appear to satisfactorily answer her concerns for the Board's purposes.
Elle Hunt: Yes. Technically, it meets the needs of Ms. Capone to have an
employment agreement.
Patrick White noted the agreement appeared to be undated and there were no dates
on the signature page. He asked if the date was intentionally left blank.
Ms. Capone stated it was an oversight and the agreement had been signed on
September 9th
Patrick White: Your testimony is that you believe the employment agreement
became effective on September 9th?
Natalina Capone: Yes.
Vice Chairman Joslin asked if Grantlaw, P.A., had drafted the agreement and Ms.
Capone's response was, "yes."
Chairman Lykos: Ms. Capone, by your testimony, the effective date of the
management agreement was the ninth day of September on the first page and the date
of execution where everybody signed it was also the ninth day of September?
A. Yes. We were together on the same day and we had the same witnesses.
Vice Chairman Joslin questioned Ms. Capone:
Q. At the last meeting, there appeared to have been several questions about the Profit
and Loss projection.
A. Yes.
Q. There were questions about how you were going to get paid and the percentage.
In your new one, the income projection is $250,000 and in your documentation,
you will receive ten percent off the gross sales—correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Will the $25,000 come off of the payroll portion or will it come off the top of
gross sales?
A. It will come off the top from gross sales.
Q. So the bottom line for your Gross Profit is not $237,000.
24
. September 21,2016
A. It's part of the payroll with taxes taken out.
Q. What I'm trying to find out is if the $25,000 is coming off the gross income.
Chairman Lykos: In other words, there is no line item that says Natalina's pay,
$25,000. There is no line item in the Profit/Loss Projection that shows where your
money is.
Natalina Capone: My money is in the payroll. Obviously, I didn't separate it the
other way.
Patrick White: Which is different from what we understood you to say—that it
came off the top.
Vice Chairman Joslin: If the money is coming off the top, it should be listed as a
line item under the $250,000 which then would decrease your gross profit number
(from $237,000 to $212,000). If it is coming off the Payroll expenses as part of the
payroll, then that's different too.
Patrick White: From a bookkeeping perspective, I think it's more correct that it
belongs under"Payroll." It isn't part of the Gross Profit if it is deducted from the
Gross Income.
Chairman Lykos: Actually, "Payroll" should come out of"Cost of Goods Sold."
It's not an overhead expense. And because this is an Employment Agreement—it's a
Management Agreement but because it lists employment responsibilities, it can be
considered "Payroll," so it would now be under the payroll expense but the payroll
for the field should be under"Cost of Goods Sold" and the payroll for overhead
should be in the overhead expenses. So if Ms. Capone's $25,000 is a percentage of
sales because she is the Qualifier, that's one thing. If the $25,000 is for payment for
work as an employee—if she is paid $25,000 no matter how much she works—then it
is an overhead expense. And if her payroll was for working in the field, it would be
under"Cost of Goods Sold." I think we've opened up a can of womus we don't need
to get into. Mr. Joslin just wanted to know where the line item was for your pay.
Natalina Capone: Obviously, there isn't one because it is in the "Payroll" as I'm
doing both. Part of my pay is because of qualifying the company and the other part is
because I'm actually doing work.
Vice Chairman Joslin: In that case, I would remove the $25,000 from"Payroll
Expenses" ($167,000) and the Net Income would mean your company made
$2,217.50.
Chairman Lykos: No, she said it was included in the payroll expenses.
Vice Chairman Joslin: Included? Okay.
Chairman Lykos: But that's what he was asking. If it wasn't on here, it would
mean your net profit was really $2,217, not $27,217.
Patrick White: Not to challenge the precision of the drafting of the employment
agreement, but it states on Page Two, under Item 5(a), "Base Compensation." Is
there something other than the "base" that we are to understand that you will be
compensated for?
Natalina Capone: No.
Chairman Lykos: So you will get ten percent of the sales regardless of the volume
and you will make no other income?
Natalina Capone: Right.
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September 21,2016
Chairman Lykos: It is not our job to negotiate for her or to question the agreement,
we just want to make sure that the agreement meets our requirements to allow her to
qualify a Second Entity. Ms. Hunt was the one who asked detailed questions about it
and she said it satisfied her questions with regard to the Board's needs.
Elle Hunt: My biggest concern is that on Page Two, Item 2(e), it concerns me
because it states that you, as the employee, will not be required to sign any individual
guarantees or contracts or any other obligations of the employer. As the License
Holder, that statement seems to be in conflict. So that's where my concern is.
Chairman Lykos: It's directly in conflict.
Elle Hunt: Yes. So, again, it's slightly vague—but this is my concern.
Patrick White: I think the "hair" that was attempted to be split in the drafting was
between being a Guarantor and being fiscally responsible.
Elle Hunt: Right—but this is so, so open-ended that it concerns me.
Terry Jerulle: I think it started out one way and kind of drifted into another
meaning.
Chairman Lykos: Do you understand what we're talking about, Natalina?
Natalina Capone: Yes. What this was meant to say was that I am not the owner of
the business—I'm qualifying the business. So any debts or anything like that—of
course, I will do my best obviously to make everything paid, but I don't have any
responsibilities other than—like, the owner has his responsibilities ...
Patrick White: But you are the Qualifier.
Natalina Capone: Yes.
Patrick White: We only get to look at this through the lens of what this agreement
talks about in terms of what your statutory responsibility is as a Qualifier in terms of
fiscal responsibility. Okay?
Natalina Capone: Yes.
Patrick White: So there's a difference in my mind between having fiscal
responsibility—it's a very small difference—and saying, "I will sign some individual
guarantee for an obligation of the corporation."
Chairman Lykos: This agreement appears to waive your responsibilities as a
Qualifier.
Patrick White: I think it's subject to that inference or conclusion.
Elle Hunt: And that's what we are concerned about—it's vague enough to be
questionable and that concerns us because you are the Qualifier. You are the one that
we, the Board, and the public would look to if there was an issue.
Vice Chairman Joslin: You do realize now that being the Qualifier means you are
responsible for everything that business does.
Natalina Capone: Yes.
Vice Chairman Joslin: Good or bad. If there comes a time that something drastic
should happen—something that you don't want to happen, happens —and someone
sues you or a job goes wrong—they are not going to go to the people who are
working for that company ... they are coming to you. And you will be coming before
us and it could be serious. You have to understand that you have a lot of
responsibility in taking on the responsibility to license a company.
Patrick White: The reason why I would fmd some comfort in it—there exists on
Page 5, under Item 15, "Law Governing"—it says "This Agreement shall be governed
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September 21,2016
by and construed in accordance with the laws of the State of Florida." And it has
what is known as a Savings Clause which states, "Oh, by the way, if the employment
agreement is ever challenged in Court and part of it is struck, the rest is good." So in
my mind, if this thing were challenged and it came down to whether in fact you had
fiscal responsibility or not, under Item 2(e), the part in there that says, "... or in any
way be personally responsible for ..."—that may be struck, or interpreted in a way
that says you can't avoid the State law—the Statutory responsibility you will always
have. So those are preserved. And at the end of the day, you are still the "stuckee."
Is that clear to you? Is that your understanding?
Natalina Capone: Yes.
Patrick White: Okay. Well then, all I can tell you is whoever drafted this probably
is not familiar with the very specific Statutes we are talking about.
Natalina Capone: Okay.
Patrick White: So you may have gotten those legal services at a lower cost than
perhaps someone who was more aware and who would have avoided drafting in a
way that this lack of clarity was part of your document.
Natalina Capone: Yes. Okay.
Attorney Morey: The one comment I agree with is if you take the agreement in
totality and look at Paragraph 2 on Page One, "Duties of the Employee," and then it
goes without limitation to talk about with a little more specificity—but it does say,
"... at all times, the qualifying License Holder for the Employer
performing such duties as are customarily associated with such
position with full and complete authority to direct all daily functions
of the Corporation's business including without limitation ..."
when I read that and look at these other things, and then look at 2(e)—okay, maybe it
was not an artful attempt at carving out no guarantee, the intention was not that she
would not be in complete fiscal control.
Vice Chairman Joslin: In your opinion, do you feel that this agreement meets what
we are looking for?
Attorney Morey: In Paragraph Two.
Vice Chairman Joslin: Well, Paragraph Two pretty well spells it out. I'm just
wanting her to understand that there's no getting out of this.
Natalina Capone: No, no, I understand.
Elle Hunt: My next question is Page Four, Item 9, the non-compete—you are asking
to qualify a "Second" Entity—so how is this relevant?
Natalina Capone: Okay—like I said, the current company that I am qualifying, has
an office—has no showroom—no salespeople—has five builders that he has been
working with for over 25 years and that's where we get our business. We rarely go
out and look for more business unless we're slow and, if we do that, we put out
"feelers."
Elle Hunt: This ties you for five years, though.
Natalina Capone: Yes. Well, not necessarily.
(Cross-talk by the Board members)
27
September 21, 2016
Chairman Lykos: And two years after employment is terminated.
Terry Jerulle: I think Chairman Lykos was asking the question of how you
distinguish between the two companies and I think this was a way to address how to
distinguish between the two companies.
Patrick White: After her employment ends—for a period of two years.
Elle Hunt: This does meet our request, technically, it does. I'm sure that you tried
your best in one month to meet our needs.
Natalina Capone: Yes. And I also want you to understand that the PMT business
has no showroom—the owner is the salesperson—and is working as a subcontractor
for a big firm. So there's no—the way I see it, you have your thing about the
competition but the way I see it, there isn't any. I've been working with the current
business that I qualify for eleven years and that's the way it has been and probably the
way it will be but the owner is going to retire soon. And, eventually, yes, with PMT,
I am tied there for five years now but I have been doing this for over fifteen years and
it's my life. And if it does happen that we end up on the same job—it's competition
for everybody. Yes, I qualify the businesses and I'm an important part of the
businesses but I pretty much stay in the background.
Patrick White: But you are on the job sites.
Natalina Capone: Yes, I am.
Kyle Lantz moved to approve the Natalina Capone's Application to Qualify a
Second Entity. Terry Jerulle offered a Second in support of the motion.
Motion carried, 6— "Yes,"/1 — "No." Elle Hunt was opposed.
X. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
A. 2016-04: Collier County Board of County Commissioners, Plaintiff,vs.
Jimmy M. Dean, d/b/a "1 D. Design Construction, Inc.," Respondent
(Note: This case was withdrawn from the Agenda by the County and will be
continued to another date.)
NEXT MEETING DATE: Wednesday, October 19, 2016
BCC Chambers, 3rd Floor—Administrative Building "F,"
Government Complex, 3301 E. Tamiami Trail,Naples, FL
28
September 21,2016
There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned
by the order of the Chairman at 11:34 AM.
COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS'
LIC SING BOARD
TH I MAS LYKOS, Chai ' an
The Minutes were approved by the Chairman on e /C , 2016,
"as submitted" 't OR "as amended" 1 1.
29