CCPC Minutes 10/23/2002 ROctober 23, 2002
TRANSCRIPT OF THE MEETING OF THE COLLIER
COUNTY PLANNING COMMISSION
Naples, Florida, October 23, 2002
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Planning Commission
in and for the County of Collier, having conducted business herein, met on
this date at 5:05 PM in REGULAR SESSION in Building "F of the
Government Complex, East Naples, Florida, with the following members
present:
CHAIRMAN:
Kenneth Abernathy
Mark Strain
David Wolfley
Dwight Richardson
Lora Jean Young
Russell Budd
Paul Midney
Frank Fry (Excused)
Lindy Adelstein (Excused)
ALSO PRESENT:
Joe Schmitt - Community Dev. & Environmental Serv.
Susan Murray - Current Planning
Marjorie Student - Assistant Attorney
Stan Litsinger- Planner
Patrick White - Assistant Attorney
Don Schneider - Principal Planner, Planning Services
Don Scott - Transportation Planning
Kay Deselem- Principal Planner, Planning Services
Tom Cook - Engineering Director
Ross Gochenaur- Planning Services
Barbara Bergeson - Environmental Services
October 23, 2002
The meeting of the LDC Amendment Cycle was called to order at
5:07 PM
Pledge of Allegiance was recited.
Roll Call was taken - a Quorum was established.
Susan Murray - Current Planning -stated this meeting is the first of two Public
Hearings regarding the second cycle of the fall 2002 Land Development Code
Amendments. The second Public Hearing will be held on November 13th, 2002 at 5:05 at
the BCC Boardroom.
Not being a regular meeting the Panning Commissioners will cover the LDC Summary
Sheets with updated versions.
Paul' Midney moved to hear Section 3.15.1, Adequate Public Facilities, (page 9 of the
handout) from Stan Litsinger first. Seconded Mr. Abernathy.
Carried Unanimously 7-0.
Mr. Abernathy wanted to ask of Susan Murray
1) At the next meeting they ask for just the Roll Call. Not Roll Call by the Clerk.
2) Many times they ask for prospective absences for the next meeting and they never
make it on the Agenda. He indicated Mr. Budd will not be at the next meeting and asked
her to reflect that.
3) At the last meeting they discussed their desire to be more pro-active rather than react
to items brought forth by the County Staff or other persons.
Items were:
- oil exploration and Extraction
- rules of Immokalee
- definitions - such as what to call a Hotel or Condo discussed at a previous
meeting of which Mr. Abernathy suggested "transient lodging".
Susan responded they are discussing the transient lodging issue at the next workshop.
Discussing the other two items can be held as a Workshop.
Stan Litsinger - presenting page 137 - Section 3.15.1 - Adequate Public Facilities
This amendment is the way they measure concurrency, look at traffic impact, and deal
with impact fees and collecting the fees. The original proposal was to go to an immediate
checkbook concurrency system but as a policy decision was to delay the checkbook
concurrency and stay with the annual update inventory report for determining currency.
Other changes were made in the way they measure traffic impacts, the way they collect
impact fees, thresholds, analysis, definitions of ASI's and need for Codes.
He referred to page 139 of their report. He discussed the change to the 10 months
omitting the months of February/March which led to unwise decisions in planning for
public facilities. He continued to point out the different changes that were made to this
section.
The staff addressed the BCC's Workshop on September 27th on page 162 for a process
of certification of traffic impact vesting and a development agreement providing for the
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October 23, 2002
Transportation Director and county staff to gather data sand analysis to build the
concurrency management system for future checkbook system and establish vesting.
He continued with the highlights of the changes.
He stated in this Amendment the BCC made a policy decision "not" to go to checkbook
concurrency at this time. Additional data and analysis is needed and will take
approximately 6-10 months to gather and meet the criteria.
It was noted in the report, the items underlined are new, and what is stricken through is
removed. The rest of the text is in the amendment already.
Mr. Richardson asked about the Level of Service being changed from 12 months to 10
months.
Mr. Scott used the analogy of building for Easter Sunday when Easter Sunday only
comes once a year. He stated 99 hours of the year are worse, and what is left over is
better than that. Eliminating the two months is about the 250th hour of the year. (249
hours of the year are worse)
Mr. Richardson asked which months of the year are then left out for sewer capacity.
For sewer capacity you design for need.
Mr. Richardson doesn't like the idea of leaving two months out of the year and feels they
are reusing the ability of the community to deal with the traffic congestion problems.
Mr. Schmitt said it was a policy decision based on the fact that they cannot afford to meet
the demand for the two worse months of the year.
We live with the congestion for the other two months.
Discussion continued concerning the peak flow and hours, growth patterns, and the 100th
hour.
M. Richardson brought up "The Area of Significant Influence".
Mr. Strain discussed the Building Permit issue and paying Impact Fees early. Stan
commented on the certificates and the SDP's. The certificates are good for 3 years.
Mr. Strain suggested the language be changed for Page 163 Section 3.15.7.3.2.2.
Escrow, trust funds and impact fees being paid back was discussed.
The trust funds are retained by the Clerk and brought back every year in one lump sum.
The monies in escrow can be used.
Mr. Midney asked about the 10 month traffic issue again. He wondered whether they are
going to vote on the issue or say whether they are in agreement.
Mr. Schmitt told the commissioners they are accepting a lower Level of Service during
certain days during the two month period. He will have Don present a graph explaining
the 100th hour - the two months and how the hours are being used. Don will bring this
back on November 7th.
October 23, 2002
SPEAKERS:
David Ellis - wanted to understand the vesting and vesting policy. His concerns
were in paying the impact fees. Once he has paid for his impact fees is he concurrent?
Stan answered he receives a certificate at the time of paying the impact fees. As long as
the certificate is valid for the 3 years he would be concurrent. Stan stated they have
removed the provision for waiver and release.
Joe wanted David to know earlier that they have concurrency to continue with their
development.
Robert Duane - He is a member of DSC and has not seen this amendment. They
will have a meeting scheduled soon. His point is the same as David Ellis. Feels they
should be able to proceed at their own risk. He would encourage some flexibility to have
someone postpone the eventuality of paying the impact fees closer to the time of the
impact.
Mr. Abemathy expressed to the speakers that if they have questions of staff to discuss the
issues in advance. The Commission is there to gather information and make
recommendations to the County Commissioners, not to preside over a forum for
developers or public and staff, nor answer questions.
Mr. Strain expressed 4 points that came out of the discussion:
1) Clean up the language
2) Impact Fees be due upon approval of a threshold point - not "submission"
3) As the input from the public - look at language to address the timeframe for
COA's
4) Make sure concerns are taken up with staff
Mr. Richardson stated he would like to see further information on the 100th hour.
The next issue is of the handout - Section 2.7.3.1 or page 80.
Mr. Strain asked about Item 2.7.3.1.1 - Community Character Plan. How is this going to
be addressed and does the staff feel it is valid? Susan did address this with Mr. Ron Nino
and stated it will stay in and tends to be used as a reference or a guide. She doesn't think
it has a lot of teeth in it but it will come back to the LDC process again.
Mr. Strain asked about page 81 #4 - last sentence. It addressed "boundaries of certain
tracts".
Susan said this is mostly concerned with Commercial and Industrial - do not have to
identify every residential tract in a PUD.
Ron Dino had e-mailed these concerns and Mr. Strain felt they should be addressed.
Page 82 - #11 - Historic uses or Land - explained by Don Schneider-
Mrs. Young felt "Historic" should be taken out. She felt it was a misuse of language.
"Previous use of land" could be used.
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October 23, 2002
Page 87 - Commercial Development - Kay Diesling addressed the issue - she referred to
page 94 - and stated it brought back the original wording in the LDC for PUDs approved
prior to October 24, 2001. New regulations are applied after that date. This is a
housekeeping issue with no change in regulation and it will be simplified.
Marjorie Student - Asst. Attorney stated staff included sub- sections and whole
sections that are not being amended at this meeting.
Break - 6:40 PM
Reconvened - 6:53 PM
Mr. Midney did not return.
SPEAKERS:
Robert Duane - He wanted to let the Commissioners know the committee spent
40 hours reviewing these amendments and recommend the chairman give them a more
definitive report. He is not sure their recommendations are getting represented as they
would like. He covered several items - Page 81 - #3 - asked that the 1,500 fi be deleted
- noted it was taken out.
page 82 - #9 - overkill & noted it was updated.
Dwight Nadeau - Planning Mgr. - WRA - He addressed Page 82 - Section
2.7.3.1.2.5 - concerning location maps - he discussed the sections and felt there was no
need for a 24x36 vicinity map.
Don Schneider responded the details identify the property better. Mr. Nadeau did not
agree. He felt if it was an issue and could be reduced as long as it has good clarity.
Wayne Arnold - he discussed the necessity of legal descriptions for tract
boundaries. He does not see the benefit to the public by having a legal description for a
generalized tract boundary in the PUDs. They are defined in the site development plan or
platting process and are inappropriate and unnecessary. Susan said the County
Commissioners wanted specificity with the location to the tracts and relationship to other
developments. He feels there is another means of getting the specificity they are looking
for.
Page 3 - #10 - needed clarification. Pages 10 of the Handout - Deviations were
discussed.
Ron Nino - his primary issues dealt with the deviations and the need for
footprints being applicable to commercial development as it is to the residential
development. No such thing as deviations in Collier County. A PUD once adopted is a
zoning ordinance.
Bob Mulhere - he recalled the BCC accepted the Community Character Plan but
did not adopt it.
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October 23, 2002
He addressed page 2 of the handout #4, #9, & #11. -- He covered the legal descriptions
1,500 feet, maps, impacts, footprints, heights, language and deviations.
Mr. Strain summarized: - Closer look at the Community Character Plan
- Reconsider another use of specificity in the PUD Master Plan in lieu of legal
descriptions
- Sunsetting provision
- Written comments given
- Building Footprint as a need
- Language requiring LECD deviations on the Master Plan
Discussion followed on Section 2.2.20 -Page 39 of handout-
Questions and discussion followed on Pages 50, 51, 54, 57 and 58.
SPEAKERS:
Dwight Nadeau - Reference Page 52 - bottom of page - Development Standards
Indicated these can be added together with other sections on other pages. Page 53
has a typo.
Wayne Arnold- Referenced Page 41- first paragraph - needs clarification. He
wants to make sure the rules aren't changing as he develops his projects because
the County has changed other sections of the LDC.
Page 41- another clarification - PUD Monitoring - Page 50 - reference to
restructuring PUDs - not sure anything is gained or the practicality of it.
Development Table - Page 58 - concerns on "list" - feels not consistent.
Vince Baracco - Page 50 - language - too stringent. He had attended the DSC
meeting and felt they were taking the concerns of the commission, the staff, and
the public, along with the developer to come up with issues everyone can live
with. He supports those comments and recommendations.
Ron Nino - He agreed with Wayne Arnold's comments with the "list" - he also
has concerns. Page 41 - has a problem with the last addition to first paragraph -
top of page- same concerns expressed on the need to identify deviations.
Susan Murray went through the summary of the other Sections of the Summary
Sheet Amendments -
Section 1.9.9
An appeals issue was discussed by Patrick White in stating they are not closing
off any avenues other than the opportunity to "inadvertently appear before the
BCC when the remedy is somewhere else in the structure of regulations". ...... It
does not take away the right for someone to public petition.
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October 23, 2002
Sections 2.2.2.2 -17.3 - Mr. Richardson asked about this issue. This addresses
Site planning attempting to do long range planning and how schools are regulated
within the zoning districts.
Marjorie told the Commission she did some research and found some schools are
exempt and some not exempt from zoning in many areas.
Mr. Schmitt said schools just "did" in the past and they are trying to remedy the
situation by working with the School Board to meet certain planning requirements
in the County.
A lengthy discussion followed.
Marjorie suggested they bring this section back at the next meeting.
Section 2.2.3.4.3 - the 6 feet was discussed - it is average and not limited to.
No discussion on Sections 2.2.12, 2.2.12.1, 2.2.17.
Page 18 - Items #14 and #17 were discussed.
Section 2.2.36 - it reads 6 months and the consensus was to change to 12 months.
Don Schneider referred to page 69.
No discussion on Sections 2.2.6.9, 2.6.9.1, 2.6.9.2.
Section 2.6.15 - Discusses Solid Waste and Susan mentioned there may be a
conflict with an ordinance, so may not be there at a later date.
Section 2.6.30 - Polling places were discussed.
No discussion on Sections 2.7.3.1, 2.7.3.4, 2.7.5, 3.2.8.3.14
Section 3.2.4.8 - Lot line adjustments - Patrick White discussed the provision
of lot sizes, creation of lots, and platted lots.
Sections 3.2.6.4.8, 3.2.6.5.1, 3.2.6.5.8, 3.2.8.2 - Page 105 was referred to -
Tom Cook - Engineering Director - addressed asphalt and sidewalks.
No discussion on Sections - 3.3.7.1, 3.3.7.1.2, 3.3.7.1.10, 3.3.8, 3.3.8.6,
3.3.10, 3.4.5.1, 3.4.5.1, 3.4.5.1.7, 3.4.5.1.10, 3.4.5.2.2, 3.4.7.1, 3.4.7.1.3-
3.4.7.1.4, 3.4.7.2, 3.4.7.2.1, 3.4.13.5.1, 3.9.7, and 3.13.6.
Section 3.13.8 - Barbara Bergeson - Environmental Services - the summary
sheet needs to be clarified. When proposed, some language was struck in hopes
EAC would support. That change was brought into the record for the
Development Services Advisory Committee. Page 136 of the packet addresses
the issues. Sections 3.13.8.3 and 3.13.8.2- several words are struck. When going
to the full DSA Committee and the summary states "per sub-committee
recommendations", Barbara stated she believes the subcommittee approved this
section with the changes.
Section 3.13.6 -Barbara states it says notification of the property be placed 15
days prior to the public hearing - the EAC suggested to change it to 45 days.
No discussion on Sections 3.16.2.1.2.1.7- 3.16.2.1.2.1.10, 3.16.2.1.2.2.1 -
3.16.2.1.2.2.3 and 3.16.2.4.1.1 - 3.16.2.4.1.9.
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October 23, 2002
Section 5.2.2 - Marjorie said this is a change required by state law. An additional
member will be appointed to the Planning Commission by the School Board and
Board of County Commissioners in which they will determine whether or not that
individual can be a voting or non-voting member.
Discussion followed in which Marjorie will report back to the Commission
concerning questions asked.
Sections 5.2.3.1, 5.13.2.3, 6.3, 6.3 Definitions and Appendix A.
Mr. Strain made a recommendation to the BCC to reconsider the whole concept of
a Hearing Officer and retain public access.
The next meeting will be November 13th, 2002 at 5:05 PM. The Commission will
be voting at that meeting.
Mr. Abemathy discussed the Agenda for November 7th.
One item from Stan Litsinger - Growth Management Plan will be presented no
earlier than 1:00 PM. The Addition to the Jail & Parking Garage will be
presented no earlier than 2:00 PM.
Meeting adjourned at 9:00 PM.