Clam Bay Estuary Discussion Group Minutes 03/20/2008
March 20, 2008
MINUTES OF THE MEETING OF THE
CLAM BAY ESTUARY DISCUSSION GROUP
Naples, Florida, March 20, 2008
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Clam Bay Estuary Discussion Group
in and for the County of Collier having conducted business herein, met on
this date at 9:00 A.M. at the Coastal Zone Management Office at 3300 Santa
Barbara Blvd. Naples, Florida with the following members present:
John F. Sorey, III - Naples City Council & CAC
Jim Burke - CAC/PBSD member
Dave Tomasko - Consultant, PBS & J
Coleman Connell - Chairman PBSD
Mike Bauer - City of Naples
Gary McAlpin - Coastal Zone Mgmt. Director
ALSO PRESENT: Commissioner Tom Henning
Gail Hambright, Tourist Tax Collector
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March 20, 2008
1. Call to Orderl Roll Call
Mr. McAlpin, Coastal Zone Management Director, called the meeting to order at
9:04 A.M.
2. Approval of Minutes of 2/21/2008
Mr. Burke moved to approve the minutes of the February 21, 2008 meeting.
Second by Mr. Bauer. Carried unanimously 6-0.
Mr. McAlpin noted that the minutes were as "close to verbatim" as possible, but
from the March 20, 2008 meeting forward, the minutes will be summary minutes with
a video of the m~eting available via Collier County.
3. Public Comments - 3 minutes per Speaker
Mr. McAlpin noted the Pelican Bay Services Division effort and stewardship with
relation to the existing permit Clam Bay permit, has been outstanding.
Further, he noted that there is possible public perception that the Discussion Group is
not concerned with the status of the mangroves. There have only been a few
comments regarding the mangroves as the Discussion Group recognizes that the
efforts in preserving the mangroves has been outstanding. The mangroves, as well as
other items need be addressed as the Discussion Group moves forward. Also, the
Coastal Zone Management office does not "speak for the Board of County
Commissioners."
In addition this is a publicly advertised meeting with members present that sit on a
variety of County Advisory Boards.
Dr. Bauer stated that Pelican Bay Services Division has done an outstanding job of
enhancing and preserving the water quality of the Estuary as well as the restoration of
the mangroves. The task now is to incorporate some larger issues into the
preservation of the Estuary.
SPEAKERS:
John Domenie, Pelican Bay Services Division noted he appreciated the comments
expressed by Dr. Michael Bauer and Gary McAlpin, but is still concerned the
mangroves are taking "second place" herein. Further, he has prepared and submitted
reports on a yearly basis to various Agencies and has not received any complaints
regarding the Stewardship of Pelican Bay Services Division. He is concerned that the
permit which covers mangrove restoration and maintenance is evolving into a County
wide responsibility. They are seeking renewal of the permit to protect the mangroves,
not for renewing the permit for activities that have taken place in Naples Bay,
Venetian Bay, Vanderbilt Lagoon, etc. He requested clarification on the definition of
the term "Clam Bay". The Pelican Bay Service Division considers "Clam Bay" as
Upper Clam Bay, Inner Clam Bay and Outer Clam Bay. Others define it as going "all
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March 20, 2008
the way south" to include other bays such as Moorings Bay, Venetian Bay, etc. He
noted the "Seagrass Study" was completed for Outer Clam Bay.
Kathy Worley, Conservancy of Southwest Florida, requested consideration for her
name to be added to the list of teams for "Water Quality and Sampling" and "Marine
Life and Seagrass Monitoring".
Mr. Connell stated that the Management effort/or Clam Bay should still
rest with the Pelican Bay Services Division and any decisions or
recommendations should recognize this.
Doug Findlay noted that he has never taken the approach that this Discussion Group
is "slighting the mangroves." The other items under consideration are in addition to
the mangroves. The waters are State owned and the uplands are County owned, they
are not possessive of one neighborhood, but belong to all taxpayers. Clam Bay
should be looked at holistically, broadening the horizon to look at other
neighborhoods that have an impact on the Estuary. He approves the approach of the
Group.
Tom Cravens, President, Mangrove Action Group noted the group is primarily a
group of Pelican Bay residents that led to the 10 year restoration plan. This plan has
been very successful. He requests local control over the plan, but does recognize
there are other issues over a larger scale and recommends these items be addressed in
a separate permit. He recommends renewing the existing permit and continue the
existing work that is being conducted within the confines of the permit.
Marsha Cravens, Mangrove Action Group, Pelican Bay Resident noted any
actions should be taken necessary to improve waters in the entire coastal zone;
however this is a separate issue from the Stewardship of the mangroves. She
requested clarification on 3 points:
I. Is it the Board of County Commissioners plan to take over the maintenance
of the I O-year permit that is up for renewal and convert it to a permit to solve
problems ongoing in the Clam Bay and the connecting Estuary system?
Commissioner Tom Henning, Chairman of the Board of County
Commissioners stated that he is not aware of any item on the Board of County
Commissioner's agenda to take over the maintenance of the permit.
2. Does the Board of County Commissioners want to replace the Pelican Bay
Public Services Division as the signatory applicant and requester of the
permit?
Commissioner Henning noted he has not been in allendance in any meeting
where the Board o/County Commissioners proposes taking over the services
provided by Pelican Bay.
3. Would Commissioner Henning vote his approval for renewal of the Pelican
Bay 10 year permit for the mangrove conservation area as it exists.
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March 20, 2008
Commissioner Henning stated he is not familiar with all the issues, but does
believe local control is beller than government control. He noted if the permit
application requires the Board of County Commissioners to "sign ojf,''' to
then (not sure on this) Petition the Board to sign off on any requests by
contacting Commissioner Halas to have it placed on an Agenda. He
requested clarification on who is considered the "County" in these
discussions.
Mr. McAlpin stated that the "County" is the Board of County
Commissioners.
Commissioner Henning stated he considers the "County" the citizens of
Collier County and the Board of County Commissioners as their servants and
the citizens have every right to Petition the Board to take actions. He
encouraged interested parties to come to the Board of County Commissioners
meeting to relay the issues herein.
Bob Naegele, Pelican Bay Foundation welcomed Commissioner Tom Henning's
comments noting the Foundation interest lie with Commercial property owners as
well as residential property owners and this group has provided funding for the
mangrove restoration in the Estuary.
Ted Raia, Pelican Bay resident noted the lands belong to the County and the State,
however the residents of Pelican Bay have devoted considerable time and money to
the protection of the Estuary and will continue to do so. They are fully willing to
coordinate with the County on the new permit, but this should not affect renewal of
the existing permit.
Mr. McAlpin responded and made note that the renewal is a J -year renewal
of the existing permit. Any new items which are identified may be placed in
the new permit application ifnecessary.
Jim Happensteadt, Pelican Bay Foundation requested clarification on what
deficiencies have held up the forwarding of permit application for a renewal that was
prepared by Tim Hall of Turrell and Assoc. and the Board of County Commissioners.
Mr. McAlpin noted that some of the issues raised over the last 6 months may
need to be included in the request jor the renewal ofa permit and may need
to be separated which is the purpose of the Discussion Group. Hefurther
noted some of the issues identified now were not identified J 0 years ago. He
noted that the existing permit encompasses the beginning of the Pelican Bay
Vanderbilt Beach Road on the north end and to the north side of the Seagate
area on the South end.
He noted that there is a zone of influence from other sources now identified
such as Venetian Bay, etc. These are the sources and issues they are
allempting to address.
He noted the Discussion Group will review all issues and determine the
format of how the application or applications will be prepared and submilled.
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March 20, 2008
David Buser, President Seagate Homeowners Association, noted he supports the
Discussion Group. He recognizes that it is County Policy that the Coastal Advisory
Committee implements the Management Plan for the inlet itself and assumes any
permit going forward will clarify that the Coastal Advisory Committee will
implement the inlet management strategy. It would be a County held permit with
County name. He praised the job done by the Pelican Bay Services Division within
the system of mangrove restoration; however he is concerned with the water quality
in Seagate which may be affected by current management practices. He is further
concerned with the lack of navigational markers in the channel (as required in the
permit) and noted that the Board of County Commissioners is currently liable. The
permit has been in violation of this requirement since its inception. He feels the
Pelican Bay residents have been given misinformation regarding issues associated
with the permit via the "Pelican Bay Post."
Mr. Sorey noted the ecological approach needs to be a holistic approach of
water quality, Seagrass habitat, mangrove restoration and other issues
identified and the permit or permits should be addressed in this manner.
Marsha Cravens noted a concern that specific language in the new permit will not
address the mangroves conservation and restoration.
Mr. McAlpin noted that the mangrove issues will be addressed by the
Discussion Group.
4. l>iscussion of Proposed Work Topics, Tasks and Teams
Mr. McAlpin circulated a document entitled "Clam Bay Discussion Group -
Preliminary work topics, tasks and approach for discussion at the 3/20/2008 work
team meeting" for review by the participants.
The document identifies various topics to be reviewed, identifying a "Work Team" to
address those topics and report back to the Discussion Group with applicable
information and recommendations.
The Discussion Group addressed the issues assigning team leaders and finalizing the
members of the various teams. It was noted that any individual can attend these
meetings.
1. Water Oualitv and Sampline:
Pamela Keys was selected as the team leader. Kathy Worley of the
Conservancy of Southwest Florida was added to the team
Ted Raia noted that the Pelican Bay Services Division Clam Bay
Subcommillee has agreed to move the permit ahead with 2 riders; 1) flxing
aU the signage and 2) cooperating with any Agencies that requested sampling
of water for testing.
Mr. McAlpin accepted this offer and noted that the team will be responsible
jor identifying the water sampling locations and parameters
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March 20, 2008
2. BMP's for Seae:ate and Venetian Bav
Dr. Michael Bauer was selected as the team leader.
It was noted that the Naples Grande Parking lot stormwater runoff should be
studied.
3. Mixine: Analvsis in Outer Clam Bav to studv the effects between
Seae:ateNenetian Bav: Clam Pass and the PBSD Stormwater runoff
Mr. Tomasko was selected as the team leader. Doug Finlay was also a
possible consideration for the team.
Tim Hall of Turrell and Associates noted there is aflushing model
completed that may assist this analysis.
4. Sand Bvpassine: at Clam Pass Ebb Tide Shoal and Permit Generation
Mr. Burke was selected as the team leader.
Ken Humiston of Humiston and Moore noted there is data available
through various reports that may assist the team working on this item.
S. Navie:ation
Mr. McAlpin was selected as the team leader. David Buser was added to the
team.
Ted Raia requested David Buser provide his concerns in writing to him
regarding the navigation issues and he will ensure they are addressed. It
was noted that Gary McAlpin should be copied with any correspondence.
John Domenie, Pelican Bay Services Division noted the issue of the
channel markings was raised a couple of years ago and that Gary McAlpin
requested the channel marking be delayed until a study by David Tomasko
was completed.
Mr. Burke noted that the Pelican Bay Services Division has agreed to work
with the Coastal Zone Management staff to bring the markers into
compliance with the 5 phases of the permit.
It was noted the first step of this team is to determine "what the requirement
is for the channel markers. "
It was noted that the Coastal Advisory Commillee has provided direction in
this mailer as well.
6. Marine Life includine: Seae:rass Monitorine:
Tim Hall was selected as the team leader. Kathy Worley was added to this
team.
It was noted that the team will define the limits of the areas to be monitored.
7. Educational Outreach includine: County Fertilizer Ordinance
Modifications
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March 20, 2008
Mr. McAlpin was selected as the team leader.
8. Fundine:
Leo Ochs was selected as the team leader. David Buser was added to the
team.
Mr. Sorey noted that possible consideration is being given to a new taxing
district for the Moorings and Seagate communities.
It was noted that each team should determine any costs associated with the
items covered within their team.
A discussion ensued regarding water quality standards and the monitoring
associated with them.
Mr. Tomasko noted that local management of water quality standards is
important, and standards such as State standards are somewhat generic or a
"default standard" and cannot address requirements that may need to be
"localized" for a specific area.
David Buser requested information regarding the exact taxing and spending
parameters for the Pelican Bay Services Division Water Management Budget
be provided to the team. This will assist in identifYing funding parameters
9. Development and Submittal of New 10 vear Manae:ement Plan and
Permit Application
Marsha Crooks was added to the team.
A discussion ensued regarding the status of the existing permit, the I year
extension application or a renewal of the existing application and further why
a new permit application needs to encompass new activities.
It was noted the avenue taken should be to obtain the I year extension of the
existing permit and prepare a new permit application(s) over the year.
Tim Hall noted that in order for the Department of Environmental Protection
to review the existing renewal proposal, or a new permit application and issue
a permit, the County will be required to address new parameters that were not
identified 10 years ago. Further, some of the activities within the renewal of
the permit application he prepared at the direction of the Pelican Bay Services
Division will probably require greater definition by the Department of
Environmental Conservation.
Commissioner Henning, Chairman of the Board of County
Commissioners suggested the use of an inter-local agreement to establish
which entities (Board of County Commissioners, City of Naples and the
Pelican Bay Services Division, etc.) will be responsible for managing the
different aspects of a potential permit.
Ted Raia noted that Pelican Bay community has spent a significant amount
time and money in managing the water quality in the Estuary and is concerned
that they will be removed from the responsibility of this task. He suggested
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March 20, 2008
that the existing renewal for the permit be submitted to the Department of
Environmental Protection for review and await comments on the application
before proceeding.
Mr. Sorey noted that the Pelican Bay Services Division has done a great job
on stormwater and mangrove management, but times have changed over the
last 10 years. At this point in time, the issues are more complex and the
County has a different level of capability with the establishment of the Coastal
Zone Management Office, etc. and the maintenance ofthe water quality
within the Estuary requires a more holistic approach. However, the efforts
and cooperation with the Pelican Bay Community should not be decreased,
but broadened. The strategy arranged by Mr. McAlpin and the County
Manager is appropriate at this point.
Mr. McAlpin stated he wishes to derive a product tailored to local control
with the incorporation of larger issues than previously identified. He
requested the opportunity to work this issue through to fruition.
Kathy Worley of the Conservancy of Southwest Florida noted that due to
time constraints it is important to obtain the extension of the existing permit.
It was noted that the extension is "in the mail."
Marsha Cravens noted the request for the I-year extension of the existing
permit should not impede the submittal for a renewal of the permit which is
the will of the people of Pelican Bay. This request for the renewal will be
brought to the Board of County Commissioners.
Mr. McAlpin noted this would be acceptable and the new permit application
may take a parallel path to this request. He will also provide all the contact
information for the various teams to all parties involved.
Mr. Burke recommended any individual wishing to be involved in the group
contact Mr. McAlpin and obtain a copy of the existing permit for review.
He also recognized the mangrove maintenance and restoration will not be
overlooked by the Discussion Group.
S. Additional Action Items
None
6. Next meeting
The next meeting will be held on May 1,2008.
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March 20, 2008
*****
There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was
adjourned by order of the group leader at 11 :25 A.M.
Clam Bay Estuary Discussion Group
Gary McAlpin, Group Leader
These minutes approved by the Discussion Group on
as presented or as amended
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