CLB Minutes 08/17/2016 August 17,2016
MINUTES
OF THE COLLIER COUNTY
CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD MEETING
August 17, 2016
Naples, Florida
LET IT BE REMEMBERED, that the Collier County Contractors' Licensing
Board, having conducted business herein, met on this date at 9:00 AM in
REGULAR SESSION in Administrative Building "F," 3rd Floor, Collier County
Government Complex, Naples, Florida, with the following Members present:
Chairman: Thomas Lykos
Members: Michael Boyd
Elle Hunt
Terry Jerulle
Kyle Lantz
Gary McNally
Robert Meister
Patrick White
Excused: Richard Joslin, Vice Chair
ALSO PRESENT:
Ian Jackson — Supervisor, Contractors' Licensing Office
Kevin Noell, Esq. —Assistant County Attorney
James F. Morey, Esq. — Attorney for the Contractors' Licensing Board
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COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS' LICENSING BOARD
AGENDA
AUGUST 17, 2016
9:00 A.M.
COLLIER COUNTY GOVERNMENT CENTER
ADMINISTRATIVE BUILDING
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS CHAMBERS
ANY PERSON WHO DECIDES TO APPEAL A DECISION OF THIS BOARD WILL NEED A RECORD OF THE
PROCEEDINGS PERTAINING THERETO, AND THEREFORE MAY NEED TO ENSURE THAT A VERBATIM RECORD
OF THE PROCEEDINGS IS MADE, WHICH RECORD INCLUDES THAT TESTIMONY AND EVIDENCE UPON WHICH
THE APPEAL IS TO BE BASED.
ROLL CALL:
II. ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS:
III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
A. May 18, 2016
B. October 21,2015
V. PUBLIC COMMENTS:
A.
VI. DISCUSSION:
A.
VII. REPORTS:
A.
VIII. NEW BUSINESS:
A. Orders Of The Board
B. James A. Loubert- James Loubert Carpentry, LLC- Reinstatement- Waiver of Exams
C. Natalina Capone- PMT of Naples, Inc.- 2nd Entity (Tile/Marble and Flooring)
IX. OLD BUSINESS:
A.
X. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
A.
XI. NEXT MEETING DATE: WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 21, 2016
COLLIER COUNTY GOVERNMENT CENTER
ADMINISTRATIVE BUILDING
THIRD FLOOR IN COMMISSIONER'S CHAMBERS
3299 E. TAMIAMI TRAIL
NAPLES, FL 34112
August 17, 2016
Any person who decides to appeal a decision of this Board will need a record of the
proceedings and may need to ensure that a verbatim record of said proceedings is
made, which record includes the testimony and evidence upon which any Appeal is
to be based.
I. ROLL CALL:
Chairman Thomas Lykos opened the meeting at 9:04 AM and read the procedures to be
followed to appeal a decision of the Board.
Roll call was taken; a quorum was established; seven (7) voting members were present.
II. AGENDA—ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS:
(None)
III. APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
Terry Jerulle moved to approve the Agenda as presented. Kyle Lantz offered a Second
in support of the motion. Carried unanimously, 7— 0.
IV. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
A. May 18, 2016
(Ian Jackson noted the minutes were improperly identified as "May 18, 2016"—the
correct date was July 20, 2016.)
B. October 21, 2015
(Mr. Jackson noted there was an issue concerning the recording of the October,
2015 minutes which had been approved by the Board during the December, 2015
meeting and signed by Patrick White as Chairman. Mr. White agreed to re-sign the
minutes.)
Patrick White moved to approve the Minutes of the July 20, 2016 and October 21,
2105 meetings as submitted. Gary McNally offered a Second in support of the
motion. Carried unanimously, 7— 0.
V. PUBLIC COMMENT:
(None)
VI. DISCUSSION:
(None)
VII. REPORTS:
(None)
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VIII. NEW BUSINESS:
A. Orders of the Board
Patrick White moved to approve authorizing the Chairman to sign the Orders of the
Board. Terry Jerulle offered a Second in support of the motion.
Carried unanimously, 7— 0.
(Note: With reference to the following cases heard under Section VIII, the individuals
who testified were first sworn in by the Attorney for the Board.)
B. James A. Loubert—Request for Reinstatement/Waiver of Exams
(d/b/a "James Loubert Carpentry, LLC")
James Loubert stated he was appearing before the Board to request to re-activate his
Carpentry Contractors' license.
Ian Jackson provided background information:
• 1994—took the Business/Law exam
• 1995 —took the Trade exam and obtained his Contractor's license
• Remained in business for the next eleven years
• 2006—license was not renewed
• 2007 —license was administratively reinstated
• License became delinquent from October 1, 2007 to December 31, 2007
• License was suspended for the entire year (2008)
• January 1, 2009—license became null and void
• He stated Mr. Loubert also requested to waive retesting of the Business/Law
and Trade exams
Chairman Lykos asked if the Carpentry license required taking the Business/Law
exam as well as a Trade exam, and Ian Jackson answer, "Yes."
Chairman Lykos directed his comments to the Applicant stating the Board is
required to determine if he had been active in his trade and whether his carpentry
experience was sufficient to render re-taking the exams as superfluous.
(9:10 AM—Robert Meister arrived; quorum increased to eight[8]voting members)
James Loubert noted his letters of reference supported his experience.
Chairman Lykos stated he reviewed Mr. Loubert's application packet and it was
apparent he had been active in his trade since his license became expired.
Gary McNally questioned the Applicant:
Q. Is your license still valid in Pinellas County?
A. No, sir. It didn't transfer. When I moved here in 1992, it would not transfer so
that's why I had to take the tests again.
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Q. When I reviewed your packet, I noticed there was no credit score at all?
A. Yes—because I haven't had any activity. I haven't had any credit or bad credit—
so it's a zero.
Q. You have been working in the field since 2008 as a carpenter?
A. Yes. I've been a founi carpenter—I've done concrete, trimmed cabinets ...
Q. Okay. Thank you.
Chairman Lykos asked the County for a recommendation.
Ian Jackson stated the recommendation was for approval with conditions, i.e.,
placing the Applicant on probation for a period of time to allow the Board to
"monitor" him.
Chairman Lykos requested additional information, i.e., if the Applicant was placed
on probation, what should the Board look for.
Ian Jackson: If there were any violations during the probationary period, there could
be an order for an appearance before the Board.
Patrick White: Were there any violations during the period of time when his license
was active?
Ian Jackson: I did not see any violations.
James Loubert: I was quite an active carpentry contractor—I worked for Pulte
Homes and for DeVosta. I mainly did DeVosta—I worked all the way up to Venice
on projects —we usually did five houses a day.
Terry Jerulle questioned the Applicant:
Q. It looks as if you have quite a bit of experience up to 2006 —I didn't see any
letters after that time. The Codes have changed.
A. I'm active. Today I am still working as a carpenter.
Q. So why didn't you just take the tests and not even come here?
A. I'm not good with tests—I actually went and took the G.C. or B.C. test. I did it
without the books and did it in two hours and got a 60. So I went and bought all
the books and went back and took the test. I got a 58 with the books and took all
the time for the test. Tests make me a little nervous. I have superior knowledge
in carpentry—I'm a strapping expert from top to bottom.
Q. But that's only half the job—right?
A. Oh—
Q. That's less than half the job.
A. I can show you conventional framed roofs that I'm doing right now.
Q. My point is—knowing the information in the field is only half of what you need
to know to have a license. You also need to know ...
A. I was an employer of over 50 employees ...
Chairman Lykos:
Q. Let me explain to you. The people who sit on this Board are going to decide
today whether or not you get a license.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You need to let us ask our questions and at the appropriate time, you can answer
the questions.
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A. Yes, sir.
Q. Okay. Mr. Jerulle has stated that you've got a lot of backup with regard to your
trade—nobody is questioning your ability in your trade. What Mr. Jerulle is
stating, if I understand correctly, is that the trade experience is only half of your
responsibility. There are also other responsibilities besides being able to know
how to nail boards together. So if you will please let the Board members ask their
questions and then answer when it is appropriate, then we can get through this as
quickly as possible. Thank you.
Terry Jerulle:
Q. My point—just as Chairman Lykos was saying— is knowing your trade is only
half of it. Knowing the business is the other half to get a license. Workers'
Compensation, Business and Law—and I'm inclined to say that you should take
the Business and Law exam.
A. Okay. Like I was saying, I was not a small contractor— I had over 50 employees
for over four years—everybody— I've always done staff leasing, I've always had
Workers' Comp on every employee I've ever had. I believe my references also
reflect the business that I had—I'm not just a carpenter. Every one of them
throughout the years will tell you that my billings were correct, my invoices were
on time, I submitted releases when they were appropriate—I know all about the
aspects of running a business, sir.
Q. Well, you let you license expire three times.
A. I was closing my business and laid off my office manager who was supposed to
have done the renewal—it was only a few months later, I was closing my business
in 2007.
Q. I think you should have a license, but I think you should have a license by taking
the test.
A. Well, I would actually go for the B.C. ["Building Contractor's" license] rather
than Carpentry again if I had to take the test. I was close to passing and did better
without the books than with the books.
Q. And that may be better for you in the long run anyway.
A. But I'm actually missing opportunities on doing some contracting as a Carpenter.
This town has started booming again and I see it as appropriate to re-start my
business. I've had employers that I've had for fifteen years asking me to go back
into business. So I know what all it takes—again, my reference letters ... even
the current reference letters ... I believe reflect that.
Q. Thank you.
Michael Boyd: As someone who has to take Continuing Education courses every two
years, fortunately or unfortunately, I learn something every time I take the damned
tests to renew my license. It is fourteen hours. I would be inclined to say that I
would require the tests to be taken.
Chairman Lykos: In advance of issuing a license?
Michael Boyd: Yes.
Patrick White questioned the Applicant:
Q. If you were going to be required to take the exam ....
A. Yes, sir.
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Q. ... how long do you think it would take you to apply for the test, to take it and
pass? Could you do it in thirty days?
A. It was ... it's just ....
Q. I think it is a "yes" or"no" question. Do you think you could do it in thirty days?
A. I'm not sure.
Q. Could you do it in forty-five days?
A. I could try ... yes, sir.
Q. I'm asking you for your best estimate of how long you think it will take for you to
be able to take the exam and pass it for Business and Law.
A. Just for Business and Law?
Q. That is what I believe has been discussed here. If that's not clear, let me confirm
what we are talking about is the Business and Law exam—not the Trade test.
A. Okay.
Q. So—with that clarification—do you think thirty days would be long enough?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Okay.
Lyle Lantz moved to approve granting James Loubert's application to reinstate his
Carpentry Contractor's License and waive requiring him to take the Trades test
only. He will be issued a probationary license for a period of ninety days during
which time he will be required to take and pass the Business/Law exam. If he
cannot pass the exam within the time period, his probationary license will be
suspended and will remain suspended until he passes the exam.
Patrick White offered a Second in support of the motion and suggested reducing
the time to sixty days.
It was noted the Business/Law exam is given at Florida Gulf Coast University on a
daily basis.
Kyle Lantz accepted Mr. White's suggestions and amended his motion to reflect the
change.
Discussion:
• Terry Jerulle suggested including the Trades test since the Applicant has not
been licensed since 2008. There have been major changes to the Code during
that time.
• Kyle Lantz noted the Applicant has been working for Builders during that
time. "If you are working in your Trade, you probably know the Codes."
• Terry Jerulle stated he would be inclined to agree with Mr. Lantz if the
license had expired within the last two years but it has been almost eight years
since the Applicant was licensed. He stated: " I am not trying to be difficult—
I think he should have a license and he should be a Carpentry subcontractor
but I think he should go through it the proper way by taking both tests."
• James Loubert reiterated if he is required to take the tests, he will take the
exam for a Building Contractors' license.
• Kyle Lantz stated since Mr. Loubert has been working in his Trade, he has
been exposed to the new Codes but he hasn't technically been doing as much
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August 17, 2016
on the business side. He continued that contractors do not usually come
before the Board for trade deficiencies —it's because of business deficiencies.
That's why I am more particular about taking the Business test.
Chairman Lykos summarized: There is a motion before the Board to grant a
probationary license for sixty days. The Applicant is required to take and pass the
Business and Law exam within sixty days. If that does not occur, the license will
immediately be suspended until Mr. Loubert passes the exam.
Chairman Lykos called for a vote on the motion.
Motion carried, 7— "Yes"/1 — "No." Terry Jerulle was opposed.
C. Natalina Capone—Application to Qualify a Second Entity
(Current Qualifier for: "Signature Surfaces, LLC. "
Second Entity: "PMT of Naples, Inc."— installation of flooring: tile, marble, wood
and carpet. Will also offer cleaning services to clients.)
Natalina Capone stated she was appearing before the Board to request to qualify a
Second Entity with her license—#C27432, Floor Covering Contractor. She is the
current Qualifier for Signature Surfaces, LLC—a tile, marble, and floor covering
company.
Chairman Lykos asked the Applicant why she wanted to qualify a second flooring
company.
A. The owner of Signature Surfaces sold the business to someone else. Not sure
how well I will get along with this person. I've also had some personal financial
issues and need to make more of an income. I had an opportunity to qualify a
previous employee and friend. I thought it would be the best of both worlds—to
make more money and qualify his business.
Terry Jerulle: I would like to disclose to the Board that I know Natalie. I worked
with her years ago. I think it's been over twelve years or so since I've worked with
her. I don't think it's anything that going to affect any decision or sway me.
Chairman Lykos: Mr. Morey—are you happy with that?
Attorney James Morey, Attorney for the Board: Yes, there's no current financial
interest.
Chairman Lykos: Okay, thank you. Thank you, Terry. Comments from the
County? A recommendation?
Ian Jackson: I am going to abstain from a recommendation on the Second Entity.
Kyle Lantz questioned the Applicant:
Q. Currently you work for Signature Surfaces?
A. Yes.
Q. What is your role there?
A. I do a lot of things. I do the bookkeeping, estimating, purchasing. I work with
scheduling. I oversee jobs now and then.
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Q. Is that a 40-hour a week job?
A. Yes —fifty sometimes.
Q. So at the new place that you want to qualify, what do you expect your role to be
there?
A. I'm going to be managing the payroll, the insurances, the employees. The owner
of the business will actually be installing, the scheduling, and doing all that.
Q. So, it's very similar to what you are doing at Signature.
A. But it's a smaller scale, so it won't take as much time.
Q. How much time do you anticipate?
A. Probably—maybe an hour a day.
Q. So, five hours a week?
A. Yeah.
Q. Maybe?
A. Yeah— give or take, and visiting jobs once a week ... maybe a couple of three
hours or so.
Q. Over all, the new business —from your business plan—expects to have a couple
of employees starting out?
A. Yeah ... five—about two crews.
Q. And you, as the Qualifier, will be able to oversee the business operations as well
as the construction work in five or six hours a week?
A. Yeah. There are only two or three jobs at a time.
Q. Okay.
Chairman Lykos questioned the Applicant:
Q. You submitted this packet, correct?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you have a copy of the packet with you?
A. Yes, I do.
Q. I want to discuss the "Profit/Loss Projection"with you. In your summary, you
said you were hoping to get the company up to about $250,000 a year in sales?
A. Yes.
Q. And you presented a"Profit/Loss Projection"to that dollar amount.
A. Yes.
Q. Under your "Payroll Expenses," you expect to spend about $62,000 for payroll.
A. Yes.
Q. You also stated earlier that you expect to have five employees.
A. Yeah. Right now we have three and we're planning on hiring two more.
Q. That means you will be paying each employee $12,000 a year. For full-time
employment, that would be about $6.00 an hour.
A. Yes, but some of them are seasonal though. Right now, it's really slow.
Q. I want to confident that you have an understanding of your company's financials
because you are going to be the person who will be financially responsible for this
company.
A. Right.
Q. Right now, I have a little bit of a concern when I see that your business plan calls
for five employees and you show a total of$62,000 for Payroll—that's one
concern. Do you understand why I have that concern? It just doesn't sounds like
enough money for Payroll for five employees.
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A. Yeah, I understand— I based it on what I was doing right now— for the year.
Right now, two of the employees are part-time.
Q. I understand, but this document is labeled as your "Profit/Loss Projection." So if
you are anticipating doing $250,000 in sales, and you anticipate having two crews
for tile installation and for cleaning—that means you are going to have five
employees. I would expect your Payroll expenses to be higher than $62,000. And
I have a concern about your ability to anticipate your expenses and to charge
enough money to make sure your company stays in business. Okay—because
you underestimated your labor expenses. The other thing is, where is the owner's
compensation in this budget?
A. Sorry, I left it out.
Q. Based on this projection, you are going to have $53,000 left at the end of the year.
We know you have understated the labor, and then—where is the owner getting
paid? And how are you getting paid out of this?
A. I'm getting paid with commission based on the sales.
Q. And where does that show up in this projection?
A. I included it in the $62,000.
Q. So now we have anywhere from four to six people plus an owner being
compensated out of$62,000 which we know is an understated dollar amount.
A. Well, the owner would take the net income.
Q. I understand. So, now we have an owner and yourself, and four to six employees
being paid out of$110,000.
A. Yes.
Q. I have concerns about your understanding of the finances of the business if this is
the projection that you put together.
A. Okay.
Q. Okay?
A. Well, I was told at the last minute to put a Business Plan together—I had one day
... I'm sorry.
Q. I don't want it to sound as if I'm coming down hard on you. I think the packet
that you put together is very impressive —we rarely see anybody who puts this
much thought into the Business Plan that they provide us and I want to commend
you on that.
A. Thank you.
Q. But my concern—before we grant you the opportunity to qualify a second
business—is to make sure that you understand not only the trade part of the
business, but also the business part of the business. You just heard the gentleman
before you. Our biggest concern was not that he understood his trade—it was his
ability to run a business.
A. Right. I understand, but I've been in this business a long time—there's very little
... most of them ... the costs are the labor, materials, and things of that nature.
Q. I understand. But if you don't know how much the labor is going to cost you, you
could end up digging yourself a financial hole and then what happens is your
clients get stuck holding the bag because you don't know how to manage your
company's finances—or your vendors get stuck.
A. I understand.
Q. And I don't want to set somebody up to do that.
A. Oh, yeah, totally. I understand.
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Q. My second comment or question or request: There's a page in here entitled,
"Financial Responsibility."
A. Yes.
Q. Question#7 requests documentation for a discharge in bankruptcy and you
checked"Yes." I didn't see the paperwork for that.
(It was noted the documentation was included at the end of the packet.)
Q. Good—that answers the second part of my question. Okay. I'm done.
Kyle Lantz questioned the Applicant:
Q. You said you will be getting paid a percentage of the sales?
A. Yes.
Q. Would you mind telling me what that percentage is?
A. Five percent.
Q. So if you do $250,000—that would be $12,500 and that would come out of the
$62,000.
A. Right.
Q. And then you have independent contractors ...
A. No, we don't have any independent contractors.
Q. Well, that's what you have on your "Profit/Loss Projection"—and I didn't know
if that was part of your Payroll expenses. Are you subbing out?
A. No. We won't be hiring any independent contractors. We will have just Payroll
tile setters. Sorry.
Q. That's a pretty big figure that you have—would that be payroll?
A. I can't remember—well, we can put that toward the payroll ... yes. Sorry, I was
copying something and I don't ... well, our plan is to have just payroll employees
—no independent subcontractors. So I guess I would put that toward the payroll
expense. I didn't look this over very well.
Chairman Lykos: I expect you didn't think you would come here and have to
answer questions about your Profit and Loss.
A. No, I didn't. And I whipped this up really fast and copied from something else.
Q. Well, it's a good idea if you want to start another business,to be serious about a
Business Plan and not just throw it together for our sake.
A. What I meant is—I had about an hour ... so I'm sorry.
Elle Hunt questioned the Applicant:
Q. My first question is for the County: Has Signature Services ever had any
violations?
Ian Jackson: Not that I'm aware of.
Q. Do you have a contract available for us to review on what your business
relationship is going to be with PMT Naples?
A. No, not yet.
Q. Not even a draft copy?
A. No.
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Patrick White questioned the Applicant:
Q. The substance of your discussions with the owner of the Second Entity turn on the
compensation as a percentage of sales as well as on the scope of services that you
are expected to provide in addition to what the law requires as a Qualifier. Can
you give us any additional information about that? What those discussions have
been?
A. Yes. I will take care of any audits, make sure the insurances are up to date, that
all of the employees are on the payroll correctly, or if he needs any help with an
estimate or sales, making calls, whatever he needed me to do other than what my
license qualifies me for.
Q. Such as scheduling?
A. Yes. Scheduling—I think that was more his responsibility than mine, but if need
be, if I need to step in for something—if he's on vacation.
Kyle Lantz questioned the Applicant:
Q. So one of the concerns we have with somebody operating a second business is
how can you represent two different parties at the same time? This is what
concerns me. Will you have two different phone numbers—one for Signature and
one for PMT? How does that work? If a client calls you and says he needs tile
work,who gets the job?
A. I am very good at being ethical about who comes from where and putting
boundaries.
Q. How will you know? If I pick up the phone today and call you—saying I'm
interested in a tile job—how will you know if I'm calling Signature or PMT?
A. I am not in the front with the sales that much—it's mainly the owners who deal
with everything and I'm mainly doing all the office work and overseeing the jobs
—explaining the job ... what tile goes where ... I do more of that than selling, plus
at Signature Surfaces we have five or six builders who are extremely loyal to us.
The jobs just come in. The owner of PMT will do 100% of the sales and has the
relationships with the clients. I'm not the one getting those calls.
Q. I know Signature is based out of Bonita. Are they licensed in Lee County as
well?
A. No.
Q. They only do work in Collier County?
A. Yes.
Chairman Lykos:
Q. PMT is a cleaning company now?
A. It was licensed as a cleaning company and we're wanting to qualify it so it can be
an installation company.
Kyle Lantz:
Q. I'm sorry—I was referring to PMT. Is PilIT licensed in Lee County?
A. No.
Elle Hunt:
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Q. So I guess my earlier question to the County was moot because we don't have any
information from Lee County regarding any violations because they aren't
licensed here? Correct?
Ian Jackson: You asked about Signature Services which is qualified in Collier
County.
Q. They are qualified here because she just said, "No"when he mis-stated his
question.
Kyle Lantz clarified he asked if either of the companies were licensed in Lee County
as well because the new company that she wants to qualify has a Bonita Springs
address. I wanted to know if they are doing work in both places.
Chairman Lykos: I have two issues that I am struggling with: (1) is your ability to
understand and manage the company's finances, and I could come up with a solution
that I could request the Board to consider which is to have you come back in three
months with some financial statements and help prove to us that you understand the
company's finances. That is something that we can use time and facts to prove. The
other concern that I have is a little bit harder to pin down. You have this relationship
with Signature —the new owner is there and you don't know how you will get along—
and we don't know how that will end. You want to qualify two businesses that do the
same work. There could be unanticipated conflicts between who is working for
which company, which accounts are the materials being charged to. When people
know that you are affiliated with two companies, that question is always going to
come up ... "Which company is this for?" What happens when one company has a
need and the other company has the resources that could help? I have a concern that
by you qualifying two companies in the same type of business, there will be some
unanticipated conflicts of interest that you are going to be faced with and have to deal
with that other people—your vendors and your clients—may be forced to deal with
and that you cannot anticipate at this point. Because the two businesses are doing the
exact, same type of work. If you were to say, "within 90 days, I expect to terminate
qualifying the first entity (Signature) and only focus on the second (PMT)," I would
feel better about those conflicts as being less likely.
A. Okay. The current owner of Signature Services—he bought the business— is
from Uruguay and he has been a builder there for twenty years. He bought the
business as an investment and to immigrate to this country. As soon as he can, as
soon as he gets his Green Card, he will go for his G.C. (General Contractors')
license and start building homes. That's his plan for the near future. And I'm
trying to keep myself—I don't know what he's going to do with the business—if
he's going to sell it again or anything like that. So I'm just trying to preserve
myself as well.
Q. How much income do your earn from Signature Services?
A. $52,000.
Q. That's a pretty serious commitment that you have with Signature.
A. Yes.
Q. Is that your primary source of income?
A. Yes. I've had conversations with the owner and he's fully aware of the
qualification. It's just that PMT, the new business that I want to qualify, has the
possibility of working with Abbey Carpet and will keep them busy all year round.
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So really, there's no conflict as far as clients go because Signature Services would
be too expensive for Abbey Carpet to use.
Q. I still have the same dilemma. Maybe one of the other Board members has a
clearer thought about how to resolve some of these issues and can offer some
guidance because I don't know how to overcome the second conflict that I have.
Elle Hunt:
Q. How are you going to protect the integrity of your license with PMT Naples?
You are the one who will be held accountable if there is any type of violation.
What are you going to be doing on a regular basis to ensure integrity there?
A. I'm going to make sure that the people on the job are on payroll. That's my main
concern—that there are no violations with Worker's Comp or liability.
Q. I'm concerned about the quality of the work as well.
A. Well, that, too. I'm going to go to the job sites to oversee it but also there is the
owner who is an installer and will be there every day as well. I'll be there to see
that everyone follows the plans—I'll look at the plans to make sure that
everything is installed right with the right setting material.
Terry Jerulle questioned Ian Jackson, Contractors' Licensing Office Supervisor:
Q. If she pulled her licensed from Signature tomorrow and came to you the day after
that, would you give her another license?
A. If she no longer qualified Signature Surfaces ...
Q. ... and came to you, asking to qualify PMT Naples the day after, she would not be
required to come here?
A. No, she could apply her license to PMT.
Q. And she would not have to come here? It would be automatic?
A. Yes.
Q. What I think I'm hearing in my mind is: (1) you are concerned that Signature
may not be around and you want to be ready in case it is not around.
A. Yeah.
Q. To answer that question, what I just asked is ... if they are not around tomorrow,
the day after—you can see Ian Jackson and get your license with PMT. So that
concern should go away.
A. Yeah, but it's also a business that's growing.
Q. Next, (2) is that you want an additional income.
A. Right.
Q. In order to get the additional income, I think you need to satisfy some of the
Board members' concerns. I think there was a question about a contract with
PMT and some of the other concerns that the Chairman had with the Profit/Loss
statement, and how you handle who you are. Because in this business, as
Contractors, we know a past client may call you because they know you. And the
question is if that client needs to replace some tile that you installed five years
ago, who is going to replace it? The question that we have is: will Signature
replace it or will PMT?
A. No, Signature would replace it if someone calls me from five years ago. If
Signature did it—yes.
Q. But ...
A. Like I said, I'm very ethical ...
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August 17, 2016
Q. I know you and I know that—you don't have to convince me of that. What I'm
saying is that I think you need to convince the Board members of that. So it may
be that you need to come back with a little bit more documentation and a little bit
more organization, especially on the Profit/Loss statement.
A. Again, once we get going and the numbers start flowing, I'll have real numbers to
work with as far as that goes.
Chairman Lykos:
Q. I think you are very sincere about why you are here. I think you are going to
work hard and do what you need to be successful because you have "skin in the
game." But I am not convinced that from the County's standpoint that this is the
ideal situation in which we would issue a Second Entity. If it were two different
trades, there would be no perceived conflict.
The Chairman cited the example of a Painting Contractor who wanted to qualify a
second painting company—one would specialize in residential and one would
only handle commercial clients. The Boards' concerns then were how could he
ensure the purchase of materials would remain separate; that employees would
not be "loaned" back and forth—and the Contractor had no way to tell the Board
how he could prevent it because the companies were in the exact same business.
He continued: I have a problem qualifying a second entity with the same type of
work—that's where the conflict comes in. And you can't anticipate the situations
that might occur when you're going to be faced with difficult decisions and we
don't necessarily know all of those difficult things that might arise—but we want
to make sure that you have thought through all those things.
A. Yes.
Q. Because you are the one who will be responsible for both companies.
A. Yes. Like I said, there are things that I can't foresee. If it comes to "do or die," I
will make a decision, speak to both people, and come to an agreement on what to
do in a certain situation. But those things may or may not happen.
Elle Hunt:
Q. My concern is that it still sounds a little premature —in the fact that you can't
articulate all the terms and conditions you will have with the new entity. You are
vague with some of them and unsure. And the numbers are also off. If I was
going to start a business with somebody else, I wouldn't say things like, "once the
numbers come in, I'll be able to figure it out." I would want to know this in
advance. I would also want to know the terms and conditions I would have with
them, i.e., what am I getting paid, what am I responsible for, if expenses were
deducted—why type of expenses, and what will I be held liable for. You haven't
articulated any of this, so it sounds to me as if you want to attach your license to
PMT while you work full-time at Signature to let PMT get going and then have
them as a back-up plan. That's the perception that I have and that's what
concerns me.
A. That's the reason why I want to qualify the other business—but I didn't think it
that specific—I didn't get that specific because I know the person and I know we
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August 17,2016
are friends. If I need to make an agreement within the next three months, I will
do that—I'll have a lawyer draw it up.
Terry Jerulle:
Q. Would it be a big imposition for you to—and I'm making a suggestion—to
withdraw your application and address the concerns of the Board members and
come back at the next meeting?
A. I'd prefer not to do that. I'd prefer not to do that, but what are my -- so you want
a clearer Profit/Loss Projection, and a legal agreement outlining my specific
requirements between me and PMT?
Elle Hunt:
Q. I would not require it a contract—just a more articulated set of terms and
conditions. Ideally, a draft would be in the Applicant's best interest but ...
A. I'm a little nervous ...
Q. That's okay. Just when we ask you these questions, you would have answers to
all of them and your perspective partner would also be in agreement. If you
choose to move in a legal direction—that's a personal choice of course.
Terry Jerulle: My suggestion is based upon—not getting denied—it may be a better
approach to withdraw than to be denied. Get everyone's concerns, withdraw, and
then come back. As I said—it's just a suggestion.
Chairman Lykos: It's a good suggestion.
Natalina Capone: Okay.
Chairman Lykos: If you tell us that you want us to vote, we will. So far, at least
three or four members are recommending that you withdraw and, having listened to
the things that we've asked you, to be able to come back and answer those types of
questions ...
Natalina Capone: Okay. Alright, then.
Chairman Lykos: Do you want to withdraw or do you want us to take a vote.
Natalina Capone: Well, I don't want it to be negative so I'll withdraw.
Chairman Lykos: It's your choice—the Board didn't ask you to come here...
Natalina Capone: Right, I understand.
Chairman Lykos: It's your decision to make. I just want to be clear about that.
Natalina Capone: So, I have to re-do everything—all the papers—if I withdraw and
re-submit?
Chairman Lykos suggested that Ms. Capone make an appointment to meet with Ian
Jackson to obtain a better understanding of the Board's expectations. He agreed with
Elle Hunt that legal documents were not necessary but Ms. Capone should be able to
answer the Board's questions concerning her agreement with her business partner at
PMT, and what the numbers on the Profit/Loss statement represent. For example, a
question about Payroll should indicate how many people will be employed and at
what hourly salary. When Mr. Lantz asked about independent contractors and you
stated the company would not hire any, then the question become why was it on the
Profit/Loss statement. You must understand your numbers so the Board will be
confident that you can run the business and be financial responsible. Another
question, if the company loses money—how will you be paid? Will you be paid off
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August 17, 2016
the front end or the back end? Will you be required to put money into the company?
Being able to answer those questions will go a long way to give the Board confidence
that you will be able to manage these different relationships and work through any
issues with the two entities until you come to a place where you are comfortable with
what is going on.
Natalina Capone: Okay.
Terry Jerulle: Mr. Jackson, if she withdraws—does she have to pay fees again?
Ian Jackson: No.
Patrick White suggested a motion to table the item until the next meeting would also
be appropriate.
Attorney James Morey, Attorney for the Board, stated a motion to table was
perfectly acceptable. The Applicant would only need to update and supplement the
original application—it was not necessary to submit a new application.
Patrick White moved to approve tabling Natalina Capone's Application to obtain a
Second Entity until the next Board meeting. Elle Hunt offered a Second in support
of the motion. Carried unanimously, 8— 0.
IX. OLD BUSINESS:
(None)
X. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
(None)
NEXT MEETING DATE: Wednesday, September 21, 2016
BCC Chambers, 3rd Floor—Administrative Building "F,"
Government Complex, 3301 E. Tamiami Trail, Naples, FL
There being no further business for the good of the County, the meeting was adjourned
by the order of the Chairman at 1:15 PM.
COLLIER COUNTY CONTRACTORS'
LICENSING BOARD
4rttilf43-
•
THOMAS LYKOS, Cr irman
The Minutes were approved by the Chairman on Sct,Tetgn3LA. -2-I , 2016,
"as submitted" NO OR "as amended" [ 1.
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