CSC Minutes 03/01/1991 Children ' s Services
Council of Collier County
Minutes/Transcripts
March 1 , 1991
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d A u 0 GOODLETTE ROAD,NAPLES,FLORIDA 33940
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416-3.r. 100
OFFICERS
Chairman:
Bea Harper
Vice Chairman:
Richard Shanahan
Secretary-Treasurer Minutes Of The Children's Services Council
Mary Ellen zumFelde
COUNCILMEM�ERs Place: Collier County Public School Board.
Judge Ted Brousseau
Alma Cambridge Time & Date: 9:00 A.M. , Friday, March 1, 1991.
Delores G.Dry
Nelson A.Faerber,Jr.
Lavern Gaynor
John Passidomo
Dr.Thomas Richey The invocation was led by Mary Ellen zum Felde.
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR The Pledge of Allegiance was given to the American Flag.
Paul C.Pinson
Roll Call: Members Present Members Absent
Judge Ted Brousseau Nelson Faerber, Jr.
Alma Cambridge John Passidomo
Delores G. Dry Richard Shanahan
' 0 Lavern Gaynor
Bea Harper
Dr. Tom Richey
Mary Ellen zum Felde
Minutes of the previous meeting held on February 1, 1991 were
approved as presented. Motion made by Delores G. Dry, sec-
onded by Dr. Richey was unanimously approved.
Paul Pinson reported on the following: first evening outreach
program scheduled for March 14, 1991 at Immokalee; formation
of a speakers bureau; the 15th Annual Advocacy Conference,
Tallahassee, sponsored by Florida Center For Children & Youth;
the Naples Alliance For Children's program to sponsor six chosen
junior high school students to attend the conference; public
relations program with County Parks and Recreation and work-
shop for various non-profit board members; interim funding;
the community staffing board and gift of a computer from Mr.
and Mrs. David Pfaff.
Chairman Harper requested Judge Brousseau to update the Council
concerning the progress of his suggestion for a citizens review
panel for foster homes in Collier County. Judge Brousseau indi-
cated he had asked Ginny Stevens and Bill Barnett to head up
a core group of the panel who would go to Miami to review a
pilot project in that community and then report back to him.
, 0
CHILDREN'S SERVICES COUNCIL OF COLLIER COUNTY
Chairman Harper referred to the last paragraph of Joe Cox's
letter which concluded that donations to the Council will be
tax deductible; therefore, it is not necessary for the Council
to form a charitable organization in order to receive and dist-
ribute the contributions. There was discussion that some
foundations might still request 501.C3 status; if so, we will
proceed for the appropriate application.
Two versions of a philosophy statement were submited to the
Council for approval. A motion made by Lavern Gaynor and
seconded by Dr. Richey to accept the second version was
unanimously approved. The philosophy reads: "the philo-
sophy of the Children's Services Council of Collier County is
to develop a plan that creates a central focus on the children
of Collier County, assess their needs and provide funds for
public and private services."
Paul Pinson reported that:
the Needs Assessment Study contract will be ready for approval
by the April 5 meeting. (It was generally agreed the study should
take approximately six months.)
a ballot selection committee comprised of the most astute poli-
tical people in the community had been formed, and that the
consensus of the committee was: that if, after taking into con-
sideration all of the known and unknown issues affecting the
ballot, and if, remaining flexible to these issues, the Council
chooses to go the traditional ballot route, that the most approp-
riate date was March 1992; however, that there is an alternative
to the traditional path which is currently under further investi-
gation.
The report of Sandi Manley, assistant principal, Pine Ridge
Middle School, in which she shared just one incident of children
slipping through the cracks, startled some members of the commu-
nity and generated a moving response among everyone at the
meeting.
The meeting adjourned after the showing of the Year of the
Child video.
Respectfully submitted,
Mary Ellen zum Felde
Secretary
3/18/91
C
T
CHILDREN'S_SERVICES COUNCIL OF COLLIER COUNTY
Grand Central Station, Suite 366
Goodlette Road
Naples, Florida 33940
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
DATE: Friday, March 1 , 1991
TIME: 9:00 A.M.
PLACE: Collier County Public School Board Room
3710 Estey Avenue, Naples, Florida
PAUL C. PINSON, Executive Director
COUNCIL MEMBERS
Bea Harper, Chairman
Mary Ellen zumFelde
Delores G. Dry
Alma Cambridge
Dr. Thomas Richey
Lavern Gaynor
Hon. Ted Brousseau
2
(Meeting called to order at 9:00 A.M. )
® CHAIRMAN HARPER: I think we ' ll go ahead. The meeting will
please come to order. We'll have the invocation.
First, the meeting is being transcribed by a court
reporter. So, we do not have a speaker system, so
anybody who speaks, speak up so that the gentleman can
understand what you' re saying.
We ' ll have our invocation by Mary Ellen.
MARY ELLEN zumFelde: Dear God, we have so much to be
thankful for this morning. We are so pleased for the
troups and the peace of the country, and we pray that
it will be a lasting peace. And we ' re so happy for
4101) those families who have loved ones over there. We
thank you for continuing to make us realize what a
wonderful country we have and the freedom that we have.
The freedom for groups like this to meet together and
to try to help each other. Let us never forget that
all the things that we have come to be through Jesus '
name. Amen.
CHAIRMAN HARPER: We ' ll have the Pledge of Allegience.
(Pledge of Allegience given)
CHAIRMAN HARPER: Mrs. Campbell, will you do the rollcall,
please?
401) (Roll call taken)
CHAIRMAN HARPER: Everyone received a copy of the minutes,
3
and since I wasn't here last meeting I have no
® comments. Were there any corrections or additions?
Could I have a motion that they be accepted as
presented?
DELORES G. DRY: I move that the minutes be accepted as
distributed.
DR. RICHEY: Second.
CHAIRMAN HARPER: All in favor?
(A voice vote was taken)
CHAIRMAN HARPER: Thank you. Mr. Pinson, could we have your
report?
PAUL C. PINSON: You can. Because I 'm speaking toward the
council , because I 'm so soft spoken, if you can 't hear
me it 's not because I 'm ignoring you. Let me know so I
can speak a little louder.
The first thing to mention, of course, is the fact
that we ' re going to have our Outreach meeting, our
first Outreach meeting, in Immokalee on the 14th of
March at 7: 00 P.M. at Immokalee High School Auditorium.
The idea is to meet here, the evening time still to be
determined, but that particular evening, and we can go
from the school board here in vans or perhaps one van
to Immokalee.
The format for that particular meeting is going to
be more like a town meeting, town hall meeting, whereby
ammo 0
4
we are seeking input from the community as well as
educating the community to what the Children 's Services
Council is, so we' re in the process now of advertising
that, vis-a-vis, the Spanish radio stations and the
schools in Immokalee and other methods through service
providers out there. Ann Goodnight has agreed to
introduce us to the Immokalee community. So she will
be there .
Second item is simply to let you know, to up-date
you on the fact that we formed a speakers bureau.
We 've had two meetings over the period of a month and a
half. And the first meeting we had roughly 12 people,
41) and a lesser number for the second, but we have 10 or
12 good top-notch speakers and they have been through a
"training session, " and we have plans on meeting as the
months go on on a monthly basis.
And that speakers bureau will be processed through
our office, the Children 's Services Council. In other
words, when we have a request for a specific speaker in
the community or when we develop a full plan of
reaching various aspects of the community it will come
from our office to the speakers bureau. Gene Narop,
principal at Gulf View Middle School , has agreed to
chair that particular committee.
Child advocacy meetings. There ' s some brochures
5
that I placed for the audience if you so desire.
There 's some brochures regarding a meeting in
Tallahassee on the 24th through the 26th of March, and
I think the council members have already gotten the
material.
I highly encourage you to consider that. We ' re
trying to put a contingent of interested advocates from
our Collier County area together so that we can van up
and go to that particular meeting and, Bea, you may or
may not want to say something to the fact that there
will be some high school kids.
CHAIRMAN HARPER: Well, we Naples wives for children decided
411) that they would try to get enough funds to send six
high school students from the Barron Collier, Lely,
2
Naples High, St. John Neuman, Immokalee and Everglades ,
one junior high school student, to attend this workshop
with the idea that they would be able to come back and
give a year of advocacy on behalf of children in
schools.
So, and also that we wanted to get them -- we
wanted to have them see how the legislature works. We
hope to have a meeting with perhaps Governor Childs,
and at any rate we' re working on that. So far I 've
41) sent out quite a few letters soliciting funds, and I
have been very successful , so we have money enough to
6
take care of it.
PAUL C. PINSON: We also received a donation from David and
Daphney Pfaff, which was a real nice addition to the
office. We continue to develop a calendar of events
that the council will be coparticipants in throughout
this year in terms of raising the awareness of
children issues in the minds of the community.
Just some quick updates are that we' re in
negotiations with the County Parks and Rec to perhaps
be a cosponsor of kids sake day. We ' re in the midst of
planning a June conference for various boards of
nonprofit, some of the nonprofit boards in Collier
401) County as well as some other things.
Interim funding. Three points there. John Nagel
and I are working jointly in developing a presentation,
or a grant proposal , to the MacArthur Ford Foundation.
Of course, John Nagel is the vice-chair of the
community foundation, and is certainly a real strong
supporter of the Children 's Services Council.
His background is that he 's spent 15 years in
Latin America as a chief executive with the Ford
Foundation 's international operation so he has a strong
connection with them. He feels that we have a chance
410 and opportunity of substantial funding over the long
term with Ford MacArthur foundation if we qualify.
7
However, it 's not interim funding. That 's more
longer term. So we' re looking at that as a possibility
of some of this additional funding as time goes on.
Also I met with Bea, I , and Mary Ellen. In fact, met
with Jim Kessler and a woman whom he brought into town,
which she had the reputation of being a superstar in
the fund raising arena.
She was from Tennessee, and she spent a good hour
and a half with us going over some ideas and details
and options and what have you. So we were glad and
happy to have had her input. The remaining balance as
we stand now is $16,197 .43 in the operational fund.
401) So that is enough funding to take us through the
prescribed March -- excuse me, May 17th period. So,
even though we have several council members actively
working to help us raise some interim funding, and even
though I 'm active out there trying to do this, the same
chore, I encourage you council members if you have some
ideas, if you have some contacts that we can pursue for
that interim funding, to keep us "in business" until we
go to the polls. So any ideas or thoughts, just pass
them on to me if you would.
Community brochure, community foundation brochure.
401) The community foundation as you know is probably the
pre-eminent private philanthropic organization in
8
Collier County and they have been one of the prime
• supporters of the Children 's Services Council. This is
their annual report that is just hot off the press, and
if you look at the front cover, you see that they have
used the Children 's Services Council. And, there are a
few here, you can pass them around if you want.
They have used the Year of the Child event that we
shot on the beach as their cover, so I encourage you to
contact anyone there, that if you know them, and thank
them for that. That shows extremely good support.
The last item on my executive committee report
is -- excuse me, executive director ' s report, is simply
41) the real quick update on the community staffing board 's
idea that was presented to this council for adoption in
December.
The update is simply this: That we continue to
work on finalizing a full operational plan headed up by
Jenny Stevens from Banyon, and Jim Hanson, of course,
from the Sheriff 's Department. They have made
tremendous strides . They have made great progress .
They actually have, I believe, all the necessary
participants to actually sit on that board as well as
fully developing more fully their operational plan, so
there will be a point in the future at which I believe
the community staffing board idea sponsored by the
1011111111116,
9
juvenile justice taskforce will be represented to this
4;) council. And the one item you wanted to mention?
CHAIRMAN HARPER: Now that we have Judge Brousseau back in
good health, thank goodness, I wrote you a letter, I
believe, Judge Brousseau, and I wondered at this
particular time if you 'd want to comment on that at
all? You had asked us to take on that task or consider
the task .
JUDGE BROUSSEAU: That 's the citizens review panel
3
authorized by the legislature last year. And, the
progress on that is that I 've asked Jenny Stevens and
Bill Barnett to lead up a core group of charter, a
4;) charter panel, to go to Miami , Dade County, where they
first did this as a pilot project and have been doing
it for about two years, view what they' re doing, talk
to their clerk . I hope to go, the juvenile clerk hopes
to go over there, come back and then develop a training
program and a recruitment program.
I anticipate that we would be coming back to the
board. Obviously, right now, I got Jenny out of making
the announcement public last time here at this meeting.
Anyone that is interested in this or would be
interested, please contact Bill Barnett or Jenny
Stevens. Do you want to stand up?
JENNY STEVENS: No, that 's all right.
10
JUDGE BROUSSEAU: She 's got a blue dress with white polka
• dots on it . Contact them now, and -- if you ' re
interested in serving later on. But we' re going to
need publicity and recruitment and possibly need
funding. We don't know, once we get over there and
look at it. I have for you a package I got from Dade
County that reviews what they do and how they run it.
CHAIRMAN HARPER: Then at this point we' re just going to sit
back and wait until we hear further from you.
JUDGE BROUSSEAU: Thank you.
PAUL C. PINSON: That completes my report.
CHAIRMAN HARPER: I imagine everyone in the -- did everyone
4;) on the board on the council receive this copy of a
letter from Cummings & Lockwood regarding the nonprofit
status? In the last paragraph they said, "We are of
the opinion that donations of the council will be tax
deductible. Therefore, it is not necessary for the
council to form a charitable orginazation in order to
receive and distribute the contributions. "
Are there any questions or any discussion
necessary on this issue? Should we take this as it is
for the time being? I would think if we send a copy of
this with our request of foundation, then they will
make the determination as to whether or not their
bylaws or their policy would allow this. If we find
ANOMMINWWWWIM
11
that it will not, then I would assume that we would
® have to then become a 501-C3.
PAUL C. PINSON: Madam Chairman, let me fine tune that. Of
course Joe Cox, who did the initial research on this,
the idea was to hopefully avoid the establishment of
501-C3 creating the image in the community of competing
with other service providers whom are trying to raise
funds. That was the idea, to not project ourselves as
another competitor for funding in the community.
I think the letter definitely states that in his
opinion, his legal opinion, that we are considered a
charitable tax deductible by federal , state, and local
4:) taxing authorities, et cetera. There still is a
question evidently about the issue of bylaws on
foundations, and I think that letter most appropriately
needs to be sent to those individual foundations .
CHAIRMAN HARPER: We'll just have to wait until we hear from
,� the the foundation.
•y'` 'Q`SWxQ la "" -iz. You will find some foundations,
perhaps 50 to 60 percent of them, who will demand the
501-C3 status verification.
CHAIRMAN HARPER: That has been my feelings too. If their
bylaws say it must be a 501-C3 organization, they are
not going to make any exceptions, so we'll just see
46
where we go from there. The minutes indicated that
12
there was a discussion at the last meeting regarding
philosophy.
PAUL C. PINSON: Yes, thanks. Let me see if I can set the
quick tone for this particular area of discussion. The
fact is, just a quick recap was that in December this
council charged a committee headed by Judge Cynthia
Ellis with the mission of creating a mission statement
for the council .
That mission statement was created and submitted
at the December meeting , at which time it was not
adopted but postponed with the idea, I believe, due to
reaction of someone from the audience or what have you,
400 that it perhaps would behoove the council to wait until
the needs assessment was completed before the adoption
of a mission statement.
However, as we had our last monthly meeting here
last month, Judge Brousseau stated something to the
effect that we needed some sort of an operational
definition. And Dr. Richey pointed out the fact that
there could be in fact a difference between a statement
of philosophy and a mission statement.
In front of you are two attempts by us to draft a
statement of philosophy. If you'll look at the first
proposal, proposal number one, it basically takes
almost verbatim from the mission statement, elimating
13
the second paragraph and changing the word from mission
4.1 to philosophy.
So in effect you ' re really adopting the mission
statement but calling it a statement of philosophy. I
have to tell you also that in checking with the other
operting councils throughout Florida they have seen no
4
clear differentiation between a philosophy statement
and a mission statement. So all they have is mission
statements that they have adopted.
We spent a lot of time on this issue. We probably
should move forward on it.
CHAIRMAN HARPER: Dr. Richey, do you have any comments about
'4011)
this?
DR. RICHEY: No. I think Judge Brousseau ' s comments
relative to philosophical points so people could
understand what we' re all about is very important . I
must express a preference for that second version. I
like the idea of creating a central focus on children.
I think that 's the important part of the statement, and
I feel the second version probably is more atuned to my
thinking, but that 's open for discussion.
But it serves as an appropriate statement of
philosophy, and when the needs assessment comes in and
we begin to work on the needs assessment, then out of
IV
that will come the mission underneath that philosophy.
AS
14
So we ' re not at odds.
PAUL C. PINSON: May I read the second for the benefit of
the community? "The philosophy of the Children's
Services Council , Collier County, is to develop a plan
that creates a central focus on the children of Collier
County, assess their needs, and provide funds for
public and private services. "
CHAIRMAN HARPER: That 's basic. Are we all in agreement?
Any discussion? Could I have a motion then so that the
second version be adopted as or philosophy?
LAVERN GAYNOR: I move that the second version be adopted.
CHAIRMAN HARPER: A second?
4;) DR. RICHEY: Second.
CHAIRMAN HARPER: All in favor?
(A voice vote was taken)
CHAIRMAN HARPER: Unanimous. We need an update on our needs
assessment.
PAUL C. PINSON: The updated is a real healthy, good,
positive one. Basically, I would love to have been
able to present a contract at this particular meeting.
However, yesterday in a Fed Ex to me in the late
afternoon was a final draft of a proposal combining the
efforts of Frazer Mulkey and FSU to commence this
comprehensive needs assessment. We have spent a lot of
time and energy with the two entities in negotiating
15
their particular areas of responsibility, and in
® particular trying to develop a good healthy working
relationship between the two parties.
I think that ' s where we have been extremely
successful, both looking at this as a good challenge
for both parties. They see really strong mutual
benefits to each entity. The time lines that I 'm
working with are that we will get together on a
conference call on Monday, fully anticipate within a
week to 10 days to have a final contract to present to
the council.
And, Madam Chairman, you may want to, in the
41) executive session, to approve that contract. You may
want to do that. However, if you choose not to it
certainly will be ready by the next meeting. At which
time the parties are ready to commence the needs
assessment. Their date, I believe, is April 1st that
they ' re shooting for.
CHAIRMAN HARPER: Any questions?
MARY ELLEN ZUMFELDE: You mean the March 14th meeting as
being the next meeting?
PAUL C. PINSON: No, I 'm sorry, although that is a real
good idea.
4;) CHAIRMAN HARPER: We could do it at the Immokalee meeting.
Any other questions?
16
DR. RICHEY: I just think we ought to be a little bit aware
of when you put these two groups together that you may
somewhat retard their time line on completion of their
tasks.
You know, we talked originally about an August
date, and because now you' re working with an entity in
the north and one here, even though they' re
communicating and so forth, shifting back of
information, the logistics of that, you may be talking
about an October completion date, Paul , in terms of
their work.
From April to August is not a long time to do
4:) needs assessment and report back . My personal concern
is that we not rush them. If they need time to do a
very comprehensive and thorough assessment report to
the council , that we ought to look at that time line in
a more realistic term, and that would be probably
October.
PAUL C. PINSON: Dr. Richey, do you have psychic ability?
Because that 's exactly what they said. October 1st was
the date that they are actually predicting a
completion. And, my original concern was that if we
were going toward a March ballot, would we in fact have
enough time to complete a good, healthy, hard, strong
campaign? The answer I think is yes. I 'm going to
17
give you an undate on that ballot decision in a minute.
But I agree a hundred percent with you. I think
getting a quality needs assessment is the highest
priority.
DR. RICHEY: I think six months is what I was thinking
about.
CHAIRMAN HARPER: Well, let 's talk about the ballot
selection.
PAUL C. PINSON: The ballot selection. I met with these key
10 individuals who the council charged me with to meet
with in putting together a group of "the most astute
political people in the community perhaps, " and I think
41) if you look at the list you ' ll agree that these 10,
which I 'd like to read: Dudley Goodlette, Joe Cox, Guy
Carlton, Mary Morgan, Jim Kessler, Marcia Flinn, Chuck
Mohlke, Commissioner Burt Saunders, Debbie Cook from
5
from the school board, we 10 met for roughly an hour
and a half on Tuesday.
The prime topic being the selection of the proper
ballot for the Children 's Services Council, Council 's
Taxing Initive. In that meeting I was -- I 'm really
happy to tell you it was an exceptionally good meeting.
Just by looking at the list you see that there 's a good
share of republicans, a good share of democrats, some
4111)
real interesting parties that are typically in the
A
18
public sector, at least in the media, have been going
4110
at each other. Out of that meeting, with all these
diverse personalities, came a consensus.
CHAIRMAN HARPER: Must have been interesting.
PAUL C. PINSON: It was great. It was a dual consensus, a
double consensus, if you will. The first is simply
that if the Children's Services Council chooses to go,
the "traditional route, " the traditional path in
presenting this issue to the public, that being one of
the general or primary elections, and the next, of
course, in Collier County being March of '92, given all
the parameters of other taxing issues , given all the
4:) parameters of all the unknowns about the economy, et
cetera, et cetera, and making the reservation and the
note that we need to have the flexibility to change our
strategy and our battle plan as time goes on, that the
most appropriate date or the best choice was March of
'92.
However, there 's another alternative, and the
alternative requires further research on my part. The
alternative requires a little different approach to the
ballot selection. Not exactly a special election, but
a different methodology. And before I give you a
complete report, what I would prefer to do is further
A
research, which is what this committee charged me with
19
doing.
Ili
So what you ' re hearing from me today is more of an
up-date from that particular meeting, and what you'll
hear at the next monthly meeting is my research that I
have done on this alternative method of approaching the
problem.
CHAIRMAN HARPER: Thank you Paul . Is there any other old
business that we have failed to talk about? I can't
think of anything. Under new business we have Sandy
Manley, the assistant principal at Pine Ridge Middle
School , is going to talk about some issues about kids.
Is she here?
417i) PAUL C. PINSON: Let me set the tone for Sandy. I asked
Sandy to come and talk to the council and the
community. The idea was simply educating the council
in a concrete way on some of the issues of kids that I
think you need to hear about. The idea also is to
educate the community on some of the more concrete
issues that the Children ' s Services Council should have
the taxing availability, would be able to address, and
I think Sandy is going to speak to that.
And at the same time, Rich Hall called me from
guardian ad litem and requested time on the agenda, and
it was for the same purpose of talking about some
1 411,
issues.
4
20
So you ' re going to hear back to back stories,
401) concrete stories, about kids in our community that are
hurting now.
SANDY MANLEY: I didn't know I would be speaking in front of
so people, but it 's a pleasure to be here, not to
speak about what I 'm going to speak about, but to see
so many interested people that are very, very concerned
about what happens to children in our community.
If I were to pick poster children for the
Children's Council, it would be these two that I 'm
going to talk about.
We had come to our school only about a month and a
4:1) half ago two children from Ohio who used to be in our
school system last year. They went to an elementary
school in the north end of town, and they lived with
the mother and a stepfather and did not get along with
the stepfather at all. Hated him, as a matter of fact.
The boy refused to have anything to do with the
stepfather, and removed himself from the family and
went up north with his real father. The girl stayed
but continued to have problems with the stepfather,
went to visit some family friends as a way of helping
relieve the situation, and got herself involved in some
41) sexual activity -- she was only 10 at the time --
with a 19 year old boy.
21
You may ask why wasn't anything done to this 19
16 year old, which is what we asked at the meeting that we
had with the Family Services Council. And the mother
said that because the daughter admitted leading him
on -- she 's very precocious, she 's not the typical 10
year old that we all know and love. This is a very
mature young lady. Physically mature, not mentally.
Because she led him on the charges were dropped on
him. Nothing was done. She then found that this type
of behavior was to her liking and began to take up with
multiple 20 year olds and older partners, if you can
believe this. This is very much like a soap opera.
i) The mother was very frustrated and didn' t know what to
do. And the paternal grandmother said, "Send her up
north, I can straighten her out. "
From there we lose track of what happens in their
story. Except that they were allowed to run free, had
no restraints put on them at all. The father let them
do whatever they wanted. The grandmother tried, but
because the father didn't cooperate there was nothing
that could be done with them.
Then all of a sudden they showed back up in
Naples. The mother got a phone call saying we ' re
41) coming home. No explanation of why. I don't know why
she didn 't ask. You can get the picture this mother ' s
22
not an effective parent by any shape of the
41) imagination, but we have many parents like that in
Naples that are frustrated. They don't know what to
do, they don 't know how to handle their children. The
whole idea of adolescence is so totally frightening to
them that they ' re very ineffective.
They returned to Naples and started out by
immediately getting in trouble with the stepfather .
Just that hatred that they had for him, but came home
because there was nowhere else to go. The boy is in --
they're both in 6th grade. The boy has been held back,
the girl is on grade level . He ran away from home, was
(:) gone about three nights. The sheriff 's department
brought him back because he was out wandering in the
neighborhood, and the stepfather had an altercation
with the daughter.
She was in the shower. There was no abuse
involved, physical abuse. He ordered her out of the
shower with soap in her hair and took the light bulb
out of the shower , of the bathroom, and sent her to
bed. That made her very angry. She wanted to run away
too. So the two of them got together and decided they
would leave.
410 The boy went to a friend 's house and, fortunately,
the mother of the friend took him in. The girl went to
23
a friend 's house and that mother also took that child
in. The mother called the school and our YRD, Youth
Relations Deputy, and asked if she would return her
children.
That afternoon at school we went to round the
children up and the boy saw us coming and knew what was
going to happen and he took off to the woods behind the
school. The girl, we got under the control of the
deputy, took her to the squad scar, and in front of the
school she kicked the window out of the back of the
squad car because she did not want to go home.
So while the deputy is working with this child in
4011) the squad car kicking out the windows, the boy gets
back on the bus and goes home. They are stopped in the
middle of the road by another deputy who takes him off
the bus, also cuffs him, puts him in the squad car, and
takes them home.
This happened approximately four different times
during the school year so far, and we 've only had them
a month and a half. Why they don ' t want to have
anything to do with the stepfather , we don't know.
They say he 's an alcoholic. We don 't know that for
sure.
® All this came to a head when one of the parents of
the children they were staying with had been told by
Alimmom
24
these children they were being abused. So naturally
she called had hotline for H. R. S. to report this abuse.
Whether it 's substantiated, we really aren 't sure.
I talked to both children and neither one say they have
been sexually or physically abused by either the mother
or the stepfather, but yet they continually refused to
go home. When I went to the Family Services Council
there was an incredulous tone in the whole council.
All of us heard the story of the children, and looked
from one to another like why isn 't something being done
with these kids? Why doesn't somebody put them
somewhere?
At this time the girl was on the beach with some
boys overnight. The boy was still with this very kind
mother who wanted him to leave because he was having a
bad influence on her own children. Then the girl
showed up at her house. She let her stay also. And
she proceeded to try to entice her 16 year old boy into
having sex with her.
So the children are verging on incorrigibility at
this point. Right now they' re at Youth Haven, and
thanks to the meeting at Family Services Council where
we all sat and said well, H.R.S. , can you do something?
And by all rights they can ' t. There ' s nothing there to
help them.
25
The mother , you might say, why didn't she declare
herself unfit? Technically throw them out. If she
does that then she can go to jail. This has happened
once before. Last year she did the same thing. She
said "I can't handle my children, here 's their
suitcase, " and put it on the front step, and she was
locked up. Still nothing was done with the children at
that time . She doesn 't want to go through that again.
She has a seven year old that she 's not having
problems with and she wants to make sure he doesn ' t get
7
taken from her. So she ' s between a rock and a hard
place as far as her children go. While she's not a
411) good mother, she does love her children. At least she
says she does. And needs help desperately.
So the people at the meeting that we were all
attending, the David Lawrence representative said, "I
know the people at Youth Haven, I ' ll call them and see
if they have an empty bed for at least one of these
kids. " He did that and found that they had room for
both children.
They asked me what I thought about putting the
girl with the younger children, in the younger
children's home, and I said no, I didn' t think that was
401) appropriate because of her experience. She would teach
them so much that they have no business knowing, and
26
would revel in it . That 's her style.
Right now I just received a call this morning that
the boy ran from Youth Haven last night. They picked
him up on the street. The sheriff found him in a
driveway, brought him back to Youth Haven. He fought
with the deputy outside of Youth Haven because he
didn't want to go in there. He threatened his sister
because he thought she turned him in, and ran from
Youth Haven yet this morning.
He was picked up by the sheriff this morning and
dropped off -- the last message I got, was dropped off
at his mother 's door. When I heard that I thought,
4171) well, here we are, back at square one all over again.
This is where I came in, this kid running away from his
mother.
The daughter is still at Youth Haven and has been
behaving herself fairly well. A very, very sad
situation, but exactly the type of thing that this
council is trying to work through, is where do you put
children in need like this? No one can take them.
They would not be at Youth Haven if there was not
space and if they were not doing it out of the goodness
of their heart. No one is paying them to take these
4111) children and it ' s a very sad situation. Now, the boy
cannot go back to Youth Haven. They can't have him
27
anymore. He ' s just being totally disruptive and
41) there 's nowhere for him to go.
Both of them have been in court on charges, the
girl for kicking out the squad car window and the boy
was taken by the parent that he was staying with, this
nice lady. She took him out to David Lawrence for
counseling because that was recommended. While he was
there he set the fire alarm off. So he has a felony
charge pending against him.
So you can see that while this is a very strange
and horrendous case as far as no one caring about these
children, no one being able to do anything -- I don 't
4;) mean the community doesn't care -- the community cares,
but the parents don 't seem to be able to do anything
with them. There is a Catch 22 involved, that if the
mother doesn 't give up her children, then no one can
take them and do anything with them, and that 's where
we stand right now with these particular children.
There 's nowhere for them to go and they' re continuing
to run free.
I don 't know how long the girl will be able to
stay at Youth Haven and what the disposition is. I
asked this morning where we stand with all this. And
® nothing still is coming up on this case, because no one
has technically done anything wrong. The children have
28
not done anything except that they are not controlable.
There 's nowhere for them to stay.
JOHN WILLIAMS: Sandy, you and I talked on the phone. I 'm
John Williams from Youth Haven. And just to update
from that a little bit, in Judge Brousseau 's
delinquency court this week we did ask that a guardian
be appointed for the girl. So hopefully we 'll get
something moving through the guardian ad litem program.
So today we' re taking the 12 year in for a pregnancy
test.
SANDY MANLEY: Thanks for the information. Are there any
questions that I might be able to answer that pertain
to this?
PAUL C. PINSON: Thanks, Sandy. Let me address my remarks
to the audience more than the council. Keep in mind
these are sixth graders, and what do you think the
possibilities are in their lives? Not real good, very
frankly. And what do you think the impact 's going to
be on the community? Not real good. I wish we had 50
years to follow those kids to see exactly what happens.
We don 't. We have lots of other kids just like that.
CHAIRMAN HARPER: Judge Brousseau wanted a make a comment.
JUDGE BROUSSEAU: First, I want to ask, welcome to a day in
41) juvenile court. And I really am sorry, Sandy, but I
was disappointed. I was hoping you were going to have
29
an answer as I heard the thing unfolding. Because
this -- you gave the ultimate, the very tip where they
reach, the kids get to, where they won 't stay at home,
they ' re incorrigible, they won ' t stay where you try to
help them because they run away, and I knew that was
coming, and I looked at Jenny Stevens here, because we
have been through this thing so many times.
Does anybody have -- I 'm looking for answers here.
8
Anybody have any thoughts on this? That you've heard
the story. What would you do, what would you propose?
Have you got any answers?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: May I ask a question? Do you have a
4:› foster parent group here? I lived in Alexandria,
Virginia before coming here, and the papers wrote up
stories like this and requested foster parents, and my
husband and I took in two children for a few years.
The courts took the children away from the parents for
various reasons. Alcoholism. Some of the reasons
Sandy talked about.
And that seemed to be a very good thing.
JUDGE BROUSSEAU: It is. Thank goodness we do, thank
goodness for foster parents. Sometimes that' s the
answer. They get into a loving home where the foster
401) parents have been trained and, not to be psychologists
but darn close to it, and they work with them and that
30
sometimes solves the problem.
4011) MARY ELLEN ZUMFELDE: I just have a question. Those of you
who work with this all the time, is there any way
somewhere back when it was obvious that the mother and
the stepfather or whatever, were not maybe the best,
did not have the best parenting skills, shall we put it
that way, that they could have been made in some
mandatory way like when you get a DUI?
I mean, I don't know what is being offered in this
community. But I wonder many times if there are
counseling or parenting classes or counseling classes
available at no cost or at a very minimum cost to
(:) parents who are obviously very much in need, so that --
how many agencies did you just talk about that have
been involved with these two children?
SANDY MANLEY: Four or five.
MARY ELLEN ZUMFELDE: And yet you have a natural mother, a
stepfather, and a natural father up north and a
grandparent. So, I don 't know, I 'm not trying to be
simplistic at all.
JUDGE BROUSSEAU: You ' re on target.
MARY ELLEN ZUMFELDE: Seems to me that there 's no question
that somehow if you can get those people when it 's
4
obvious there 's some hot problems there --
JENNY STEVENS: I don 't know whether I can address whether
31
or not they can be mandated. I know the services are
available. I don 't know this situation, but I 'm
certain the services that have been made available to
these people at no cost, or at a very reduced cost or
whatever, the choices for those people taking advantage
of those services is much like the children going to
the places where they go where we try to place them and
running away.
There are limited things you can do when people
choose not to take available resources. But as far as
mandating parents in the parenting counseling, I know
that you have done that before.
JUDGE BROUSSEAU: The answer is that almost one hundred
percent of the parents that come before me on each
Wednesday for dependencies get ordered into parenting,
among a lot of other things.
MARY ELLEN ZUMFELDE: Do you have a tracking of that to see
how effective, noneffective, or whatever that is?
Maybe it' s going to come out of our needs assessment.
Maybe I 'm jumping ahead.
I
JUDGE BROUSSEAU: You ' re threatening to take their children
away. Lot of times the children have been taken and
put into foster care or Youth Haven or wherever, and
then you ' re saying to get your children back you' re
4 gip
going to have to meet these accomplishments, and one of
32
them to is to go to parenting.
41 I see a lot of positive results from the
parenting. Sometimes there aren't any. I mean, there
are some families -- this sounds like probably one of
them -- where you can just -- nothing, they' re so
ingrained in this that you may not be able to change
it.
SANDY MANLEY: For your information I would say a hundred
percent of the schools in Collier County will offer
that as a solution or a help, and give them places
where they can go and recommend David Lawrence in their
sliding scale and that type of thing as help for the
4:1) parents.
But there 's no guarantee they ' ll follow-up. If
the parents come in for another conference we always
ask if they have followed up on that. And it runs
about 50/50. That 's whether or not they have or not.
JUDGE BROUSSEAU: I 'd like to follow up on that, and I
really didn't set this up with Mary Ellen, but she sure
set the scene for what I want to say, which is, you
just hit the whole crisis on the head. And what you
have heard here from Sandy is the very end of it.
What we do is we try whatever we can the best we
CI) can. There ' s a thing called independent living the
H.R. S. starts teaching. They're going to be
I
33
independent anyway, they' re running away, and they
teach them how to live at least correctly and properly
and give them some guidance, and hope they make it and
hope that they get to be 18 and get a job, and usually
about that time you got two or three babies and, you
know, it 's sad.
But what I would like to do is ask the question,
or throw out the suggestion and a question at the same
time. First of all, you read over and over in the
newspapers about our education system here in the
country and in Collier County. We get compared to the
rest of the country, and they take SAT tests and they
compare us to Japan and tell us that we' re not as
bright in math as Japan and all that. And, I think
those may be important, but to me they' re esoteric
compared to some of the real needs.
And one of the real needs that I see is parenting
and marriage counseling, that this country is going to
pot real fast, and it 's through lack of parenting, the
ability and knowledge. And when I say marriage
counseling, it 's more elementary than that. It's how
to get along with people, because it ' s the same thing.
And what I do, I sit in there on Monday and I do
Qdomestic violence and spouse abuse; then on Tuesday I
do delinquencies, and Wednesday I do dependency, which
Ammummo.--- Ammo
34
is lack of parenting, and I just see -- then on
Thursday and Friday I do divorces. And all I see is a
cycle that I wish that before you could have a baby you
had to take a course in how to care for those children,
because that 's sometimes all that these people need is
some guidance.
All they really got, you know, I went to the Air
Force Academy, and they really tore you up there the
first couple weeks. Because no matter what you did,
when you did it wrong, they 'd say "Did your mother
teach you that, smack?" That was the word they had for
us. You know, "Did your mother teach you that?"
When you really reflected on it, yes, everything
you knew and did and ate and everything else, basically
your family, and mostly your mother, taught you. So
the only thing they know in parenting is what they saw
and grew up with, and so many times it ' s a vicious
cycle. Is this little girl going to be a good parent?
Is this boy going to be a good parent?
You' re just going to have the whole family back in
10 years, 15 years later. Same thing with the
marriage. Marriage is a combination of parenting and
getting along with each other, raising kids. I would
propose and like to see if it isn't already being
done-- first of all, let me lay one more precedent
37
it 's effective to a certain degree, but until our
41) society puts this word accountability on parents and
homes, and where children come from, I don't think
10
you ' re going to change it. We only deal with the
aftermath of the problem. We don't deal with the real
problem, Judge.
You ' re working at the wrong end of the spectrum.
You' re working at the product and not the causal
factors, and if society is expecting the schools to
deal with the shaping and the molding and training and
so forth, schools aren 't equipped to do that.
Now, if society wants to do that, let 's change our
1411) mission, but you can 't be held accountable for
education and the social problems and family problems
and all those other things. I 'm convinced that we' re
growing a society of children that are so full of anger
and so full of frustration and pressure that we have
almost desensitized them.
We desensitized them with what society says you do
as mature adults and we set out double standards. We
do all sorts of things and create so much frustration
and anger in children, and where does it start? It
starts in the home. It starts in the home or the lack
® thereof.
I can 't be real encouraging. We deal with the
spin-off problems of young people and we shape them to
111) a
certain extent, thanks to the loving, caring,
teachers, but when the teacher has 25 to 28 children in
that classroom trying to teach and correct those
problems that come out of the home, they' re not
equipped to do it, nor are they emotionally equiped
eq PP
to did deal with it.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I 'd like to say that I have been
thinking
that for a long time, that what we need in the
schools is
a class in family relations. Just even one
class in family relations. You know, we go into
' n cold, we don' t know anything about it coming
parenting
out of high school. And unless you have been brought
400
up in a good,
loving home, you know, you just don't
know how to do it.
And I remember taking a class , after I had three
ildren really, in family relations and I
or four ch what a
onl if I had had that in high school
thought Y
better parent I would have been. There are so many
thins that you can learn in communication.
simple g
That's the main thing, is communication. If We just
had a class in that --
We are doing a lot of that in our counseling
DR. RICHEY: ecially in our
and in our student activities and esp whole emphasis
® programs in middle grade education. The
39
is on more group counseling, group discussion, home
101)
room teachers working with this, peer reinforcement,
assistance.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Just by coincidence, this school
system has, obviously, by the very comments you've
heard from Sandy, we have been concerned as you all
know for the whole child. We deal with the whole child
ever day. We provide free lunch, transportation, we
provide support for parents, believe it or not, on a
counseling basis as well .
At the same time I ' ll share with you, this year
the assistant principals to the high school curriculum
4:) met, and one of the areas they felt we should offer a
course, and it ' s like you' re reading our minds. About
six months ago we instituted a course for next year
that 's now in the current catalogue for '91, '92, that
will deal with family child care. We know that that 's
an area of need.
In fact, we even raised the issue, could we make
that a requirement for graduation, and we discussed
that, and we haven 't taken that step. And I must say
so, Dr. Richey, that that step is a bold step, because
it also creates some other issues within the balance
Cprogram studies, and that will take another six hours
to talk about, but I won' t do that today, but it will
4
40
be part of the elective curriculum, an elective offer .
4:) We have 16 required courses and 24 credits, and
that 's a very tight curriculum because of the primary
responsibility, as Dr. Richey said it, and I ' ll add a
footnote, is we' re held accountable for the academic
outcome. That 's what the public holds us accountable
for. That 's the primary responsibility of public
education.
But we deal with that whole child to get there.
That 's a gift. We understand that, we accept that in
concept, we accept that in spirit, and we have
advisor/advisee programs to help deal with some of
that, but that deals with the fringes of the problem.
lur
It doesn't deal with the hard core aspect of human
behavior. And the advisor/advisee program is not going
to adjust or make significant changes to aberrant
behavior.
That behavior that significantly deviates from the
norm as we find it in our society. So this course will
add an elective program next year, and students,
needless to say, will be drawn to that course.
DEPUTY HANSON: I 'd like to add a quick comment. I don't
want to put any damper on anybody's visions here, but
that ' s just not going to work for these kids. You
4:)
know, one hour a day on how to be a parent or what a
41
good family is like does apply and does not compute
41, with this kind of child. It is not going to work. And
11
just like social studies don 't mean anything to this
kid, science, family living is not going to mean
anything to this kid at 10 years old. It is alien to
their world.
I think we' re really deceiving ourselves if we
think that having a parenting course in school is going
to make the difference. It ' s not going to make the
difference. What has to to happen is somebody has to
take control of these kids and teach them the values
and how to live and how to survive in society, et
cetera, because the parents are not going to do it and
are incapable of doing it.
With all due respect to Dee, Dee shares my
frustration. The auspices of these kids fall under,
that Sandy' s talking about, they authorize and they
empower Dee and H.R. S. to take care of these kids, yet
they provide nothing. So what that does is block the
whole system.
The system can ' t do anything because they ' re under
H.R.S. auspices, and H.R.S has nothing to provide for
those kids. Am I right, Dee? So everybody else meets
4:) road blocks when they try to do things. And that 's
part of the problem. Unless we as a community as a
42
whole want to take care of these kids, these kids
401)
aren't going to change.
DR. RICHEY: Just one thing that needs to be said, people
just don't understand. I move around this community
making so many presentations to parent groups and civic
groups, you people in this room probably don't realize
that we have 37 percent of our children in the Collier
County School System, some 22 ,000 students, on free and
reduced lunches. Listen to that. 37 percent of our
children on free and reduced lunches.
What does that say? It tells you something about
the economic conditions, but it tells you a hidden
4:) agenda. Far beyond the economic situation is the
social situation that 's a large arena of that economic
problem. We have problems, folks, that I wish we could)
66Nd
have a public forum and let some of the people in
Naples and Marco Island understand what we deal with in
Collier County.
If we don't do something, if we don 't do something
as a society and as a community to protect this asset
and to shape that asset, society tomorrow is not going
to be what you and I have enjoyed or what we can even
think about in the next decade. When I get problems in
401) my office as a superintendent they' re real problems.
They ' re problems that have gone throughout from
43
the classroom teacher , to the counselor , to the
assistant principal, to the principal, all the way
through, and they wind up in here and I 'm even involved
in the court processes and all that sort of stuff.
We have nothing -- we can 't touch these children,
we can 't deal with them because we don 't have a support
anchor out there, i .e. , the home, to help us shape it.
And, we have these children 196 or actually 180 plus
days, six and a half hours a day. And where are those
children the rest of the time? They 're in your
community, they' re in homes that are ill-prepared and
uncaring, and basically they' re in a society that
seemingly does not set them as a priority, both for the
present time and the future.
And so it ' s easy to whip the schools, it 's easy to
whip teachers, it 's easy to whip anyone who 's involved
in it by saying it 's your problem. They put their head
in the sand and walk away from it and it will get
better. It ' s not going to get better until people take
it upon themselves to solve this problem.
PAUL C. PINSON: Let me make a concluding --
ALMA CAMBRIDGE: Can I make a comment? I 'm a retired
guidance counselor for the last 10 years. I want to
Cfollow up on what Jim has said. I have been
participating for some time on the guidance taskforce
44
that 's been formed by Collier County Schools.
® And one of the things we've been talking about is
the placement this year coming up of a counselor in the
school building, especially in the high school , where
kids of this kind can be sent down to work with one
person who can address those problems. As Jim has
said, when you teach these courses and these children
going into the classes they get very upset when they
look in a book and see this picture of a lovely family
sitting around a table.
Everything that they ' re studying is addressed to
the ideal American family. And they can't deal with
this. I had students come out of classes like that to
my office and say, "I don't want to sit up there
because I don 't have a dad like that. " So, there are
other avenues that we have to address. It can't be, as
Dr. Richey said, just the school.
Parents in a conference, when you start giving
them all the alternatives that are available, they
start -- the first time you mention David Lawrence,
"We ' re not crazy, " you know. You ' ve got to have all
kinds of ways to deal and get people internalized to
the idea that we' re here to help them.
CI) The youth of the people who are going to take over
from us, and if we close our eyes, and that 's been
45
12 another problem, people do not want to accept the fact
® that in Naples, Marco, everywhere, we 've got some
serious problems and it doesn 't have to do with poverty
or whatever. It 's just that the breakdown in this
thing, everybody in a home going a different way.
My husband and I are the parents of four girls.
We brought them up here in Naples, and it wasn't easy.
And by the time our last daughter was getting up in
high school , every other evening one of us or both of
us were going to meetings. And one day she said,
"Where are you guys going?"
You know, he looked a me and he said, you know, we
4:) gotta stop, we gotta think , and, thank God, we did.
And we made a pact that one of us would be with her.
That 's just one small fragment. But there are any
number of things, and why I feel excited about being a
part of this council is that it 's my hope that we' re
going to be able to turn some of this around.
But it 's not going to be something that you just
pop your finger and it 's going to get all beautiful.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Just a couple brief comments, because
I think this case brings some of us back to where we
hope the Children 's Services Council could really be a
4:) meaningful influence. And I think the shortrun
solution, as many of us who provide services, is to
46
pour as much money as possible to the kids who are in
crisis. But there are lots of gaps.
But the long range solution is prevention and
education, and while Jim feels like a class in the
school is not going to address that group of kids, he's
absolutely right, but maybe it could prevent some of
those kids from ever getting there in the first place.
And I think that 's one of the things I 'm hoping
the children's council can do. There 's not just one
solution to this problem. But the long term solution
is going to be found in prevention and education. It 's
not the school system' s problem, it 's the community 's
(:) problem.
If we expect the school system to develop one
class in family living, we' re again missing the boat.
CHAIRMAN HARPER: Well, one of the things that I want to
comment on that Dr. Richey mentioned, that 37 percent
of our children in schools are on free lunches , to me
this tells me that there are 37 percent of our families
who are struggling to survive. Because if those
children are on free lunches, that family's income is
so low that they are struggling.
Probably if it 's a two-parent family they are both
CI) working, struggling to make house payments or rent or
buy food, clothes for the kids, and have, you know -- I
A
47
don't have any little children but I have grandchildren
and I have greatnieces and nephews, and when I go to
buy clothes I wonder how families make it.
I mean, people who are just on the ordinary
income. How can you pay $49 for an outfit for a little
child? That 's out of the question. So that 's what I
see here. We have 37 percent of our families who are
struggling to survive. The rest I guess are all right
or above survival , but I hope that's what the
Children's Services Council will address and help these
families to do better.
PAUL C. PINSON: My concluding comments --
CI)
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I just want to reinforce what Bea and
Dr. Richey also indicated about the low income families
here. Of course, the school is seeing the children
when they ' re a little bit older. We have a prenatal
program and about half of the deliveries in Collier
County are what we call medically indigent women.
These are women who came before the private sector
who are on Medicade. That means up to 150 percent of
the federal poverty level . When we compare the rate of
growth in deliveries in Collier over the last six
years, for all deliveries the increase has been 40
4:) percent, from ' 86 until '90, for what we call IPOP
deliveries, which are your medically indigent, is 70
48
percent. The rate of increase is somewhat greater.
And, it 's not all in Immokalee. Half of those
deliveries are in greater Naples. And the rate of
growth is faster in greater Naples.
In that interval the rate of growth for greater
Naples is 144 percent.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Good morning. I always enjoy coming.
I 'm not sure that 's the right term, because I sit here
and my heart beats faster and faster and I hear it in
my chest and I say we' re on to really the significant
things. Without echoing what 's already been said, but
I think maybe all of us need to be a little cautious in
41:1) terms of reacting to suggestions of a solution to
address this problem or solution to address that.
Because the problems that, surrounding the young
boy and young girl, are I think multifaceted and that a
response is needed across the whole board. Both the
very intense kind of focus that maybe a foster parent
situation would bring to bear for the sake of
maintaining life for the children.
13
But at the same time I think what we concede is
that at the same time that 's a problem it 's also a
symptom of a much deeper problem and probably more
4:) towards the adult portion of our society. So, just
quickly concluding, I would hope that the Children' s
49
Services Council early on would address in its
effectiveness in addressing the needs of children,
address programs and issues for the adult community to
come to grips with. And early on set an overall tone
that the adults in the Community are not free of your
energies and your commitments, that to address the
needs of children may be the more focused immediate
short term issues.
But if we are to really provide long term quality
of life for all children in the community, that the
Children's Services Council can take leadership in the
issues that all the adults really need to come to grips
(;) with in Collier County.
CHAIRMAN HARPER: Thank you.
DAVID URICK: I 'm Dave Urick, executive director of Youth
Haven. I hate to bring a mercenary note, but it was
mentioned that out of the goodness of our heart that we
admitted both these children, and we 're keeping the
girl. The cost is approximately $90 a day that we' re
eating, and the mother is hoping to be able to pay $25
a week.
We are in a deficit posture at Youth Haven at this
point of approximately $100 ,000 for the current fiscal
year. I just bring this up as a fact of life. We are
I `N'
not in the posture of having eight million bucks in the
50
bank as one person said to me once. We don't have
411)
unlimited resources.
We ' re glad that we have them where we can do this.
And it is, surprisingly, we had expected the young man
to make the adjustment. We didn 't think we 'd be able
to keep hold of the girl, but it 's worked the other way
around. Anyhow, I just bring this up as a fact of
life.
CHAIRMAN HARPER: We ' re running sort of behind.
PAUL C. PINSON: If I may, Madam Chairman, let us wind up
the meeting with the video.
CHAIRMAN HARPER: Let 's do the video last. And, are there
4:) any comments from anyone? Yes, Judge Brousseau.
JUDGE BROUSSEAU: When we voted on the philosophy, statement,
I almost wish I would have now, but I thought I 'd
suggest a change to it. Because what it says is that
the Collier County Service Council is to develop a plan
that creates a central focus on the children of Collier
County, and then I like that. That 's right there.
Then, and I never got good grades in English so I
wasn't sure how these commas and everything affected
it, but I have a feeling that -- I had a feeling then,
and maybe someone here in education can help me, it
4:) says, commma, assess their needs, which is fine, and
provide funds for public and private services.
51
And I 'm afraid that what we've done is we 've put
our focus of throwing money at the solutions. I was
toying with the idea of asking to add, after private
services, comma, if appropriate, but now maybe I would
suggest that we say, and provide funds for public and
private services, comma, if appropriate or make
suggestions.
My reasoning is just what we got into here today
and, unfortunately, what we got into here today caused
us to run late and bump somebody off the agenda. But
from day one when I saw the service council originated
I felt that we could do more than just raise money and
throw money at the problem.
One issue we talked about, and I 'd like to see it
and hear it talked about more is how do we attack this
problem? And Dr. Richey isn 't here, but he said, and
he's right, we're attacking it from the wrong end.
We ' re trying to put out the wildfire, and we should go
to the beginning. But I think there 's some resources
already here. School board agencies. Maybe just
linking them together and working better together, to
refocus to prevention versus curing the problem.
Secondly is I 'd like to see this board focus on a
4:) question that hits me daily, and that is the question
of drug babies and cocaine babies. When H.R. S. takes a
52
baby from the parents because the baby tests positive
for cocaine, they bring the -- within 24 hours they
have to bring the baby and the parents before the court
to get permission to keep and shelter the baby.
Okay, there 's also a question of do you prosecute?
I was having a discussion this week with someone from
H.R.S. Do you prosecute the mother for either delivery
of substance to the baby, and that one 's on appeal now
from another part of Florida, and once it comes down
we' re going to know whether you can legally do that.
Secondly, do you prosecute the mother for child
abuse of delivering and having a baby with cocaine in
4:) its system and going through the withdrawal and all
that? But there 's a flip side of that that Dr.
Polkowski can tell you about, and that is if you
prosecute or if you take the baby away, then she
doesn't see these mothers. Because they don't dare
14
come in for prenatal care because they' re going to get
caught.
And so now what is our druthers? Would we rather
have babies getting the proper prenatal care and going
through the services, or prosecuted, or take their
babies away? Neither of the -- which, believe me, I
4:) don't know the answer. I 'm not sure which one I want
to do.
53
But this forum could be an ideal situation to say
(4)
we' re going to talk about this, and anybody that wants
to come from the public, we' re going to bounce this
thing around. And, maybe, because you got a prosecuter
that 's sitting up there on the seventh or eight floor ,
wherever they are in Building F, that has to make that
decision.
And they would probably be glad to hear what the
public has to stay. We got a school board that says
they ' re responsive to the public, and they are, and I 'm
glad to see that you got the courses coming in high
school . But it ' s an elective. I 'd like to see it
4:› mandatory. And, as I said, I 'd like to see it put down
in the middle school level .
But if the public had a chance to be involved, and
if I 'm reading the public right, which I think they
would support it, and they said we want this, then you
would hear it and you 'd be able to go back and say to
the school board, this is what the public wants.
I would like to see us do more than just raise
money and throw money at these things. I 'd like this
to be a forum to focus, and we can start doing this
next month, not waiting until we get the needs
assessment. I guess I 'm frustrated, I 'm impatient. I
lbw
have to be patient all day long as a judge, and here I
54
guess I can be impatient and say I want to get going on
this thing right now.
CHAIRMAN HARPER: I think what you ' re talking about is that
you want the Children's Services Council to become more
involved in advocacy.
JUDGE BROUSSEAU: Yes.
MARY ELLEN ZUMFELDE: Madam Chairman? May I also just add a
note in here? I don't want to turn this into an open
forum, but I realize that part of our philosophy here
is just to talk about providing services and assessing
needs of children, and I have to say that those whom we
are most acutely aware of are those that wind up in the
4:) court system that Dr. Richey deals with in the schools.
And also that it 's fair to say that it costs this
county money. That 's what we really relate to, and I
challenge you to say that there are many families out
there and there are many young people that don 't cost
you anything, but have a lot of problems.
I mean, maybe they ' re paying for all of their drug
problems and they' re paying for their medical problems
and it doesn' t cost this county, but I guess my bias is
that there are people that can be very, very
influential and very effective in helping us that have
CI) the financial means and the wherewithal that if you can
get their attention, and they know themselves if they
55
have problems in their own families, it 's either a
4111)
grandparent here in Collier County and they' re
having -- their son or daughter somewhere else is
having problems with their child. And it 's not costing
a county on anything, but there are problems.
I guess my bias is that there are probably a lot
of people that when we begin to discuss our problems in
Collier County it 's hitting home to them. And how
we' re going to -- I think one of the challenges of this
Children's Services Council, and all of you, I think
the big challenge is how are we going to be able to
touch the hearts and pocket books if you will and
4:) support other kinds of support to people who have the
ability to help us and relate that just because they
don't talk about and we don't know about the problems,
it 's not very different than the problems that some of
these people have.
You know, your last sentence to me made the most
sense. It 's our priority, it 's where we put our
priorities. That 's the key to it.
CHAIRMAN HARPER: Judge Brousseau, would you defer making
any change at this point, and let 's go ahead with the
way the motion is made?
JUDGE BROUSSEAU: Fine, I just wanted to make my comments.
I
CHAIRMAN HARPER: You threw me a curve, and I don't want to
56
go back to that. If we could leave it as it is for the
time being. You know, to me, and I ' ll make this
comment, I think that this is what we need. We need
discussions on our problems for our children. We have
been talking about them for years, and I think a group
getting together here and having Sandy tell us, you
know, I work with human rights advocacy and I see this
all the time.
And I was at the juvenile detention center in Fort
Myers and talked to a young girl who was 17 years old
whose mother died when the child was two, and she 'd
been running away from her father since she had been
12. She's run away five times and every time she was
picked up she was sent back to the father.
Well, that 's no solution. She finally ended up
with all kinds of felony charges against her for
15
stealing and all this. Seems to me that when the child
ran away the first time something should have been
looked at and said why did she run away and then try to
offer some kind of support system to that family,
because the father never married again, and it was just
a bad family is what it was.
I would hope that that ' s where we ' re going and
4:) that 's what we' re going to do in Collier County not
only, but we have to educate the community and nothing
57
is done free. It all takes money in order for us to
® accomplish the things.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Bea, I enjoyed hearing everybody
today very much, and I know about the problem of money,
but I just want to share with you when I lived in
Virginia in the '70 's, the children, that was the hippy
days, and that 's when everything changed in the school
system, and I called it permissiveness, everybody could
do their own thing.
They used to have a dress code, and all the rich
kids went to school with torn bluejeans to try to look
like a bum, and the drug scene came about. But in
4:) Washington, DC, and I wish I could find this
documentary for you, there was a very, very poor school
and it was in the worst neighborhood and they had a
black woman principal.
They had no air conditioning in this school ,
they had nothing of luxury, and the principal belived
in discipline and she made those kids come to school --
I saw this on TV and I 'll see if I can find it for
you -- but the little boys had to wear neckties and a
little shirt.
They wear the same thing every day, it ' s not that
4:) they had an assortment of clothes. And the little
girls had to wear dresses. They were not allowed to
58
wear pants. And that school had the greatest eduction,
and that 's why the documentary was done. They came
out of all the wealthy schools , they learned. They
were disciplined, and they had respect and self esteem,
they were proud. And they were poor .
And I just can 't forget the scene. And everybody
told you about money, money, money, and I find you have
a lot of problems with the rich kids. You know,
they' re the ones who aren't really so wonderful. But I
just had to share that with you, that maybe going back
to the word discipline and maybe dress codes and make
the young people have a little bit of self esteem, feel
a little bit good, because there's a lot of rich kids
out there that are sick. I just had to share that with
you.
CHAIRMAN HARPER: Thank you, but I still -- I know we' re
working now on a budget of sixteen thousand something,
and I can tell you I work every day free, and if I
didn't work there they'd probably need to hire someone.
So, you know, you have to have money to operate. It ' s
just got to be there. Are we ready for the video?
I 'm very proud of this and we hope all of you will
appreciate it as much as we do. I always judge things
4:) about how good it is to whether or not I get weeping or
goose pimples, and I did both, so I think it's very
49
good.
401)
PAUL C. PINSON: Well, let me set the tone. It takes a
second to do that. It ties in directly with
everything we' re talking about this morning. It ties
in with the fact that Judge Brousseau sits over here
and is frustrated with the system and really wants the
issue of awareness to come to the forefront of what the
issues and the key things are.
It touches on the fact that a lot of us get
excited about the possibility of having a special
taxation district and being able to fund perhaps
creative innovative programs aimed at prevention. What
did we do the morning of the 26th of January when we
shot this video for kids? What did we do? One way to
look at it is absolutely nothing. 15 hundred kids
showed up on a beach in Naples and they had fun and
they participated in an event that was designed to be a
kick-off for a year of activities of awareness.
But did we help any kids that morning? Probably
not. Help in the sense that we' re talking about
helping here. But what we did do I think is create a
tool that 's going to be used throughout the year, a
tool that will be used in many different ways. In
Qparticular, as the campaign actually begins, we have a
three minute version, the entire video is three minutes
60
Clong, and we have added to it in the sense of
incorporating what the service providers, incorporating
other elements.
(videotape played)
PAUL C.PINSON: As we sit here this morning there 's a
proclamation being passed throughout the Collier County
Schools for all 22 ,000 students to sign challenging the
community to rise up and address the kids.
CHAIRMAN HARPER: If there's nothing further, the meeting is
adjourned.
(Meeting adjourned at 10: 30 A.M. )
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61
STATE OF FLORIDA )
® COUNTY OF COLLIER)
I, Robert E. Harrington, Notary Public in and for the
State of Florida at Large, do hereby certify that I was
authorized to, and did report the Children's Services
Council meeting held on March 1 , 1991 ; and that this record
is a true and correct computer aided transcription of my
Stenoram notes of the proceedings had at said session.
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and
seal in the City of Naples, County of Collier, State of
Florida, this 8th day of March, 1991 .
ROBERT E. HARRINGTI , RPR
Notary Public
State of Florida at Large
My Commission Expires : 9/26/94
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