PVAC Minutes 08/08/2002 RAugustS, 2002
County Public Vehicle Advisory Meeting
Building F, 3rd Floor
3301 Tamiami Trail E
Naples, FL 34104
MINUTES
August 8, 2002
Attendance
Members:
Pat Baisley
Dan Shriner
Chairman William J. Csogi
Allen Walburn
Eric Hyde - absent
Staff:
Michelle Arnold - Code Enforcement
Ekna Heo - Code Enforcement
Tom Palmer
Public Speakers:
Jack Radenfeld - USA Limo
Russ Beasley
Janet Powers - Operations Manager Code Enforcement
August8,2002
Chairman William Cosgi called the meeting at 9:05 a.m.
Michelle Arnold stated that they received a formal announcement that Brian Pierce
resigned. There is now a vacancy and a posting for this position.
Chairman Csogi asked if there were any additions or deletions to the agenda. Michelle
Arnold stated that she may want to consider adding an election of officers since a vice
chair is now needed. It is up to the committee to decide on this. Chairman Cosgi wanted
to have the election at this meeting for the vice chair position. Allen Walbum nominated
Pat Baisley for vice chair, and Dan Shriner second it. All were in favor of this
nomination.
Chairman Cosgi wanted to review the driver ID's and background checks. He wanted to
add this to old business. Pat Baisley made a motion to approve the agenda; all were in
favor of the approval of minutes. Allen Walburn made a motion to approve the May 29,
2002 minutes and Dan Shriner second it. All were in favor of the approval of minutes.
Chairman Cosgi began the discussion on the next item regarding Sunset Transportation.
Ekna Heo, from Code Enforcement, stated that Mr. Melvin Johnson wanted to ask the
committee to skip the application process because he had a company and he applied for it
2-3 years ago. She stated that he never renewed it, so his application was cancelled. He
wanted to ask committee if could skip the application process. Chairman Cosgi replied
and said we caught him operating this past year w/out a certificate and his excuse is that
since he has already had a permit in the past he wants to skip the process and be granted a
renewal of his permit. Chairman Cosgi did not agree. Allen Walbum wanted to know
why he wasn't at the meeting to testify. Ekna said he was supposed to be here. Dan
Shriner began to discuss this issue. He stated this was done in 2000, then his permit ran
out in January 2000, then he came in march of 2000 and asked for renewal at that time.
Was concerned whether he paid for the days that he did business for the days that his
permit was not renewed. He wanted to know if code enforcement was going to bill him or
make him pay the $8 a day. Michelle Arnold said there was a request to waive his
application requirements because he had a prior license to operate. Tom Palmer said if he
wanted to make a special situation of this he would have to get it docited and make some
kind of petition to the board to consider. He said it is a nullity as far as viable application
and as far as having it a special case. Dan Shriner referred to the April minutes that came
in that month, and was told they could not help him. Dan stated that he is very concerned
whether he paid the $8 a day. Chairman Cosgi asked if this was one of the people who
there was a complaint against. Chairman Cosgi said he put in a complaint for this
company, Sunset Transportation. Again, Allen Walburn expressed that this shouldn't
even be an issue if Mr. Johnson isn't willing to come before the board to testify. He also
stated that going through code enforcement seems inappropriate. Tom Palmer stated that
he has two options; either ceases to do business or come in and get recertified. Tom
Palmer also stated that the new ordinance says if you reapply a year later, five years later,
and you owe the county money, one must pay in full to be recertified. He stated any past
dues would have to be paid. Tom doesn't see any factual basis for a waiver and doesn't
AugustS, 2002
even think the ordinance contemplates anything like a hardship to waiver in these
matters. Chairman Cosgi feels they should write a letter to him so he can come in.
Russ Baisley, a public speaker, had a couple of questions, one on driver certification. He
stated that taxi drivers and school bus drivers are in a very tough market. He stated that it
is tough for guys to spend $50 on a permit. If the permit process is going to take place, it
should be done when the vehicle is renewed. He stated that it is difficult and time
consuming for the county to do and that there should be some grace issues for guys who
have been driving for 4 or 5 years and that they should be grand fathered in.
Michelle Arnold wants to know how one gets grand fathered in when it is required to
show documentation. Russ feels that it should be put into consideration to deregulate taxi
fares because the market is changing. Lastly he wanted to know what the board's position
is on false filing, if operator comes to you and submits a document incorrectly.
Tom Palmer stated that the Statutes apart from county ordinances address these cases,
and it may be a misdemeanor or a felony. If there is a violation it may be more
appropriate and more efficient to bring this to the state attorney's office if in fact it is
forgery. If it's forgery and it is submitted to the government and one is trying to get a
permit or permission this is another matter and more aggravated situation. Russ gave out a
copy of the lease that was allegedly forged while the client was out of the country. The
public speaker gave the committee a copy of the lease that was signed. Russ submitted
this to code enforcement. Michelle Arnold stated that code enforcement has already
looked at it and has passed it on to the county attorney's office without respect that the
county no longer permitted the vehicle. In turn this was not an issue. A copy of
documents was sent to the notary to advise that the notary notarized w/out the proper
present. Allen Walburn asked what this has to do with the committee. Tom Palmer agreed
and said why would this document be presented to code enforcement. Dan Shriner stated
he pushed it out in January when he first came on the board. He also said he does not
want to make a move on this unless someone around him wants to take care of this issue
as well. He stated that this situation is a concern and an important issue. It was noted that
the person being discussed is still working, but not w/the same vehicle.
Tom stated that if some action is going to be taken, it should be by the state attorney's
office. Allen Walburn made a motion to submit all of the documentation to the state
attorney involved in this case. He feels that they don't have enough facts to go on.
Michelle Arnold requested that the matter be presented from county attorney's office so it
is appropriately stated to the state attorney's office. Dan stated that the two company's
paperwork since 2001 has been brought up frequently to the board. Public Speaker Russ
Beasley wanted to ask one last question. He wanted to make aware and request to make
policy or judgment so if in the future code enforcement is brought this type of situation
again they will be able to follow certain steps that would need to be honored.
Tom Palmer stated that anytime someone submits a forged or false document, the
ordinance states that this is basis to revoke the certification for the company. He stated
that the vehicle should not have been certified because it was not leased to that company,
He thinks they have a basis to try to prove that the documents are forged. He stated that
worst-case scenario, they revoke the certification to the company. Allen Walburn wants
to amend the motion to turn the documents to the state attorney for review. He feels the
law should takes it course first before the board or have a hearing here first. Chairman
AugustS, 2002
Cosgi feels that they can do both based on the one document. Tom said could run the two
concurrently. Dan Shriner second the motion to bring documentation to state attorney. All
were in favor of this motion.
Chairman Cosgi also made a motion to start a hearing process to review this document if
in fact it was forged and proceed with hearing on Naples Taxi and the other taxi
company. Chairman Cosgi wants to look at documentation and evidence that they could
come up with and contact the companies involved and any witnesses involved.
Chairman Cosgi amended his motion. He stated that the code enforcement contact will
contact the contact and the proper offices and ask how to proceed and if there is enough
documentation to review and lastly, how to review for the hearing date.
Allen Walbum second the motion. All were in favor of this motion.
Jack, a public speaker, wanted to discuss the color still an issue with code enforcement
He stated that he sent a letter to PVAC on August 2, 2002.
Michelle Arnold said item was put on the agenda just for clarification on whether there
was a time flame discussed when the color scheme was brought before the board.
Jack stated that this is not a color scheme issue, but a configuration that needs to be
changed. Michelle Arnold stated that the definition of color scheme includes not only
color but also logo and everything else. She questioned whether the board approved the
continuation of both color schemes, including logos and everything else included in color
scheme. She wanted to know if this was the board's intent. Jack thought everything was
approved with letter sent to the board.
Tom said he can't reopen the matter, seeming it is an exercise of discretion and it's done.
Chairman Cosgi asked if the board could set a time frame for 1 year from letter, June 1st
Allen Walburn made motion that USA cabs will all comply with color schemes on or
before June 2003. Pat Baisley second this motion. All were in favor of the motion.
Michelle Arnold stated the executive summary provided information about the matter at
hand with A-1 Limo; one of the companies's inquired about doing business without a
permit for operation. She stated she has the receipt of an invoice and an affidavit of
violation.
Ekna Heo read statement of violation section 142-40 of ordinance 2001-75, the Collier
County vehicle for hire ordinance. In this was the date of violation, June the 5th, June24th,
the day the violation should have been corrected, and June 7th, the date ofreinspection.
Janet Powers, Operations Manager Code Enforcement, gave out a packet w/the executive
summary, which follows with the code case, affidavit of violation, and lastly the receipt
with notice of violation that was submitted to the driver. Based on the recommendation of
the PVAC, a sting operation was performed attempting to contact the companies that
were operating without a certificate. Janet stated she made a telephone call on June 5th
through A-1 limo. She went though her situation with A-1 limo as noted in the packet.
4
August 8, 2002
On June 7th the driver showed up and took to the proper destination, the driver was paid
and notice of violation and notice of hearing was personally served on the driver. The
limo had an insignia on both doors, no name on it, and noticed there was a current sticker
on back bumper (collier county permit). Ekna Heo referred to the executive summary and
how it gives a brief synopsis of what happened on that day. Pat Baisley asked that A1
limo sent a certified vehicle to pick up Mrs. Powers. She also stated that the problem is
that they are advertising service without out a permit. Ekna Heo stated they have not yet
established the driver ID.
Ekna wanted to mention that a couple of company's who do not have enough vehicles,
may call some other company to do the pick up even though they still do the transaction.
Dan asked Janet Powers whether he told her he was with Elite or if he gave her a card.
She said he did not mention what company he was with and he did not give her a card.
Dan felt that it would be necessary to get records from June 7th from both companies in
order to look into more. Chairman Cosgi feels there is a clear-cut violation, with backup
of this. He wants to move this along properly. He asked if there were any other questions
from the board or the public. It was stated that the evidence from code enforcement
showed there was a violation here, one that they advertised in the phone book w/out a
permit, secondly that they pick up Mrs. Powers and were paid and received a receipt
beating there name that was in the phone book without out a permit. Allen Walburn
asked if know who parties of A1 limo, and do we have any documentation of them
making an application to be a transportation company and do they exist other than the
add in the yellow pages. Ekna replied and said she looked it up under the corporation's
site and she said they cease to exist or they are under another name. (Bentley Swanson)
Michelle Arnold stated that according to corporate registry, it's an individual w/the
business in Fort Myers. Chairman Cosgi stated they need to consider the gravity of the
violation, whether there are any previous violations. He stated they need to consider an
action, which will include a fine that will not exceed $250 a day and they need to set a
date for compliance. There was some discussion on the amount that can be fined.
Michelle stated that under code enforcement board rules, they have the ability to fine
someone up to $250 a day, but in your ordinance you have a fine amount of $25. Allen
asked code enforcement if they were still under operation since the violation or did they
cease operation. Ekna Heo stated that they had not been notified of either. Tom stated
that this is a specific incident on this day and evidence represents that there was a
violation on this day and there is no question the board can not fine the $25 a day, but
there are no facts whether they continued to do this. He feels that they can get
cooperation from the Lee County authority that regulates cabs in that area and find out
what is going on here and what the relation is between the parties. He feels there is clear
evidence that there is a violation that occurred on this particular day. There was some
discussion on ways to find out if the business is still operating in order to know if still in
violation. Supposed if made a phone call and testified and the company in fact was
offering service in Collier County today, it would be a reasonable presumption that the
company has been offering service from the date of violation, from June 7th up until
today.
August 8, 2002
Tom Palmer said there is a legal issue to whether a violation up to today is noticed.
Michelle Arnold said the only thing they are factually in violation of from the time the
notice was put in the paper from when served company on June 7th is the advertising in
the phone book. Tom Palmer said they don't know if they are continuing to offer services
in Collier County after June 7th as the matter of the record evidence. Allen Walbum
suggested that they take a quick break to make a phone call to the company to try and
find out if they are still in operation. Tom stated that they are not being charged with any
violation subsequent to this time. Dan brought to attention the address on the receipt.
Ekna stated that the receipt shows a Golden Gate address but when this address was
checked, they have the Fort Myers address registered. She stated that this address does
not show up in any records.
Chairman Cosgi asked Tom Palmer how to proceed based on the documents at hand.
Tom stated that even if they prove that they are operating today, there is a question about
whether there is a notice on a continuing violation.
Chairman Cosgi stated that in future when doing a sting operation like serving a notice,
! 5-20 days after it has been served, go back and go through the process again before
coming to a hearing. Tom Palmer said to do so when this happens.
Allen Walbum stated that the $25 is insignificant and asked whether the committee can
bring back evidence to the next board heating. Tom stated that the heating may be
continued for certain purposes.
Chairman Cosgi asked for the committee's opinion on whether there is enough evidence
to show that a violation occurred. The committee agreed that a violation did occur.
Chairman Cosgi also asked if the board thinks because the violation occurred should they
continue the hearing, get more evidence so then can attach a large fine and get into the
Elite issue at the hearing. It was stated that if the board was going to go after Elite then
they need to have a charging document. It was suggested that staff call Elite and find out
what's going on between Elite and A1 limo to get a clear picture, to see if Elite is in
violation as well.
It was stated that the committee needs to find relationship between A1 and Elite.
Tom Palmer will prepare an order for the chairs signature that finds there was a violation
on June 7th at least and if then if want to continue matter of further evidence, whether this
situation is a continuing problem that maybe they can get assistant from A1 Limo in Fort
Myers.
Chairman Cosgi made a motion to continue this hearing in order to gather information
whether or not A1 limo is continuing their operation or if they have ceased business.
Allen Walburn second the motion. All were in favor of this motion.
OLD BUSINESS
Michelle Arnold and Ekna Heo stated that Diamond Limo service and Gatsby Limo are
two other businesses set up with sting operations. They stated that Diamond Limo never
responded and Gatsby had car problems, but they agreed. They will try again to have a
full execution of service.
August 8, 2002
Chairman Cosgi said that they will take Diamond Limo off the agenda, but will continue
w/Gatsby Limo.
Chairman Cosgi referred to item C under old business about driver id's and background
checks.
Michelle stated that the resolution was brought before the board of county commissioners
at there last meeting and they approved the resolution to authorize the staff to assess the
fees for background checks as well as the issuance of driver ID's. She stated that this
process may be started as soon as possible.
Chairman Cosgi thinks that a notice should be sent out to everyone that his has passed
through this process. It will state the person has between the date of the letter and January
31st to get their certification. Michelle said it would be easy to put out a notice. She also
stated that if the company can at least provide some information on drivers in advance
then they could request background checks, because this will be time consuming.
Chairman Cosgi made a motion and Pat Baisley second the motion. All were in favor.
COMPLAINT REPORTS
Ekna Heo stated that an individual submitted an application that had been conducting
business prior to. Someone called in and said this person is conducting business although
the application is incomplete but is being completed. The individual is aware that he may
not be operating business until the application is complete.
ANNOUNCEMENTS
Michelle Arnold stated that Jack Radenfeld had some complaints that are several years
old and is not sure if staff can do anything w/them, but will look at each one
individually.
Chairman Cosgi stated that recent complaints are in regards certain areas in Collier
County that have had several individuals picking people up that are not certified.
Michelle Arnold stated that it was suggested that we look at the bus schedule and see who
is waiting there ready to conduct business. She is not sure if it is a violation just to sit at
the bus station. She stated that she needs to actually see an exchange of money and see
business conducted in order to be a violation. She also stated that an unmarked vehicle
may be someone's relative or someone of this nature picking an individual up. In turn this
is going to be a very time consuming process.
Dan Shriner said there should be log records of these cars. He explained that people have
been parking certified vans downtown. He stated that some of these people are hocking
people to solicit business. Michelle Arnold stated that they rely a lot on city police for the
enforcement of this since they are familiar with the ordinances regarding this matter.
August 8, 2002
It was asked by the committee if a member witnesses a violation of a taxi, could they get
the taxi's tag number and report it.
Michelle Arnold stated if a member is traveling and sees a violation they take down info
needed because this would be very helpful to the staff.
Chairman Cosgi says there is a vacancy for a position on the committee. He asked if there
is a section where it mentions if a member misses two or meetings, should they be
removed from the board. Michelle Arnold said this only applies to permanent members
on the board. She stated that Eric Hyde is a non-affiliated member. She stated that they
need two positions filled and they need to be affiliated members.
Referring back to A1 Limo, Tom Palmer stated that ifa phone call to A1 limo was made
asking if they provide service from Collier County, and set up an appointment at a special
time and place and they say yes, he feels that this is enough evidence that they are still
doing business in Collier County without having to go through any other evidence.
Chairman Cosgi reopened the meeting, which was closed only for a few minutes.
Jack stated he is going to hold his complaints tmtil the next meeting. He gave Michelle
20-50 copies of complaints, specifically the recent ones mostly about black cars by
Checker. Jack feels that soliciting is a violation. He stated that if car is at bus station and
doesn't have a name of person or a reservation to pick up, then this is a violation.
Chairman Cosgi requested to have copies of these complaints before the next meeting so
he can review them and try to absolve the situations. Michelle stated she would make the
copies for him.
Chairman Cosgi adjourned the meeting at 10:55 a.m.