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PARAB Minutes 05/24/2000 1 1 2 3 4 5 PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY BOARD 6 7 MINUTES 8 9 10 May 24 , 2000 11 Vineyards Community Park 12 4:00 p.m. Via,... 13 14 15 16 PRESENT : John Grice , Chairman Lisa Barnett 17 Charles McMahon Edward Olesky 18 Mary Ellen Rand Samuel Welborn 19 20 21 22 ORIGINAL 23 24 4 25 GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 2 1 (Pledge of allegiance . ) 2 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Please remain standing . 3 ( Invocation . ) 4 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Everybody read the minutes 5 from last month? Nobody ' s read it . Okay . 6 Does anybody have a problem with the minutes? 7 MR . OLESKY : No . 8 CHAIRMAN GRICE : I ' m sorry, Ski . Was that - - 9 MR . OLESKY : No , sir, I do not . 10 MR . McMAHON : I second that . 11 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Those in favor of approving 12 the April minutes , affirm by saying aye . 13 Those opposed, say the same . 14 (Unanimous vote of ayes . ) 15 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Passes . 16 Okay . I think I ' m going to - - we have two or 17 more presentations , and I think I ' m going to do 18 them one at a time , please . 19 Jimmy Alaniz , front and center, sir . You have 20 been awarded an excellence award for your attitude . 21 This is presented to Jimmy Alaniz - - is that the 22 correct pronunciation? 23 MR . ALANIZ : Alaniz . 24 CHAIRMAN GRICE : - - for consistently showing 25 his enthusiasm in working with an unwavering GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 3 1 positive attitude . And you ' ve clearly made a big 2 difference . Thank you very much, sir . We 3 appreciate your efforts and we would like for you 4 to stay right there and take two minutes and tell 5 us what it is that you do . 6 MR. ALANIZ : I ' m a park ranger for Collier 7 County and I work in Immokalee . And I take care of 8 all of the parks in Immokalee . That ' s making sure 9 that they stay clean and people don ' t try to - - you 10 know, stop people from drinking there . And I ' m 11 kind of nervous . 12 CHAIRMAN GRICE : We couldn ' t tell . I guess 13 you know this bearded guy over here? 14 MR . ALANIZ : Yes , sir . 15 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Know him quite well? 16 MR. ALANIZ : Yes , sir . He gave us a boat ride 17 a couple of weeks ago . 18 MR . McMAHON : Cool . 19 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Thank you very much, Jimmy . 20 (Applause . ) 21 CHAIRMAN GRICE : And Denis Dipert . 22 MR . DIPERT : Dipert . 23 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Sorry . Even after somebody 24 told me the correct pronunciation. 25 We have the same attitude award for you . This GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 4 1 is presented to Denis Dipert for consistently 2 showing his enthusiasm working with an unwavering 3 positive attitude . You ' ve clearly made a big 4 difference and we appreciate your efforts . And 5 would you please tell us a little bit about what 6 you do? 7 MR . DIPERT : I work at the pool and I take 8 care of the pools , cut grass , paint , make any 9 repairs that I can make and try and keep the place 10 looking good . 11 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Somebody said that you can 12 repair anything . Is that true? 13 MR . DIPERT: Not anything, no . 14 CHAIRMAN GRICE : I ' ve got something in my 15 house - - no . 16 MR . McMAHON : I was going to talk to him about 17 the grass cutting thing . 18 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Thank you . 19 MR . McMAHON : Thank you . 20 (Applause . ) 21 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Okay . 22 MS . RAMSEY : Do you want to go right - - do you 23 want to go right down the row? 24 CHAIRMAN GRICE : I had interjected introducing 25 - - GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 5 1 MS . RAMSEY : Go ahead . 2 CHAIRMAN GRICE : At this time I would like for 3 Marla to introduce her new boss . 4 MS . RAMSEY : That ' s right . I ' ll - - I don ' t 5 know how many of you know Leo, but Leo has been 6 working now with the parks and recreation 7 department and the public services for about not 8 quite a month . Close to a month . So this is going 9 to be his first PRAB meeting to come out and see 10 what you guys are doing and how well we do it . And 11 I don ' t know if you guys want to introduce 12 yourselves to him and tell him a little bit about 13 what you do? 14 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Here or elsewhere? 15 MS . RAMSEY : Well , you know, basically your 16 business , so to speak, so he can get a little bit 17 of an idea of the complexity of our board and where 18 our backgrounds are . 19 So, Steve , you want to start , maybe , and come 20 down the row? 21 MR . OLESKY : Ed Olesky . I own Lake Trafford 22 Marina and we have met . 23 MS . RAMSEY : Okay . 24 MR . McMAHON : That wasn ' t fair, man . 25 CHAIRMAN GRICE : There was - - somebody forget GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 6 1 to tell you we ' re keeping it short and sweet? 2 MR . McMAHON : I am Chuck McMahon and I ' m 3 involved in the Park and Recreation Advisory Board 4 because I have children in the county . And I ' m 5 also involved in Swamp Buggy, Incorporated, and I ' m 6 a director there . And I kind of enjoy having fun 7 with Parks and Recreation . 8 MS . BARNETT : Forgive me . I ' m not going to 9 stand up . I ' m Lisa Barnett . I ' m an attorney with 10 Cheffy, Passidomo, Wilson & Johnson . I do 11 primarily real estate . And I grew up in Naples . I 12 have lived here since I was three, so I ' ve used our 13 parks a lot . And this was a good opportunity for 14 me to help give something back . 15 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Okay . 16 MS . RAND : Sorry I ' m late . 17 CHAIRMAN GRICE : That ' s okay. You ' ll get 18 twenty lashes later . 19 My name is John Grice . I ' m a real estate 20 agent here in town and I have been on the board 21 here , I believe, two years now, mostly because I 22 don' t have any kids here , but it ' s - - I thought it 23 would be a thrilling opportunity to see the things 24 that should be done in the area, that could be 25 done . GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 7 1 MS . RAND : What - - 2 CHAIRMAN GRICE : We ' re introducing ourselves 3 to Leo . 4 MS . RAND : How are you? I ' m Mary Ellen and 5 I ' ve been - - I think it ' s been just this year . I 6 can ' t remember what month . I guess since the 7 beginning of the year, I joined the board . And I ' m 8 a landscape architect . I have been living in 9 Naples about four years and was involved in the 10 design and construction of a couple of the parks . 11 MR . WELBORN : I ' m Sam Welborn . I ' m a retired 12 educator . I have been in Naples about twenty 13 years . I ' m the newest member of the group . I ' m 14 still trying to figure out what they do sometimes , 15 but I ' m learning . And I ' m very involved in the 16 Golden Gate community . 17 MR . OCHS : Since you-all told me about 18 yourself , I ' ll tell you a little bit about myself . 19 As Marla mentioned, I came over to the Public 20 Services Division on May 1st , officially after 21 serving as the support services administrator here 22 at the county since 1986 . 23 I came down from Joliette , Illinois in 1986 to 24 join the county as personnel director and then 25 became what we call our support services GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 8 1 administrator, which is kind of the back office 2 group that does the purchasing and the personnel 3 and the benefits management , real estate 4 acquisition, information technology, that kind of 5 stuff . And when Tom was named the county manager, 6 he came over to the office and wondered if I had 7 had enough of that back office stuff after that 8 many years and if I might have an interest in 9 working over in public services . And I jumped at 10 the opportunity . 11 I ' ve got three kids that have kind of come up 12 through the system and used a lot of the Parks and 13 Recreation facilities over the years . I ' ve got a 14 daughter that ' s seventeen years old at Barron 15 Collier and two boys , fourteen and twelve, that are 16 over at Pine Ridge . And when they are not at Pine 17 Ridge, they are usually using the Veterans Park 18 roller hockey rink or some of the other facilities 19 that Parks and Rec . provides . So I ' m not only a 20 member of the county staff but I ' m a customer, 21 along with my family . 22 So I ' m very excited to be part of the team and 23 I certainly appreciate the opportunity to be here 24 today to learn a little bit more about what you-all 25 do . And I can ' t thank you enough on behalf of the GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 9 1 Commission and Tom and Marla and her staff for all 2 the volunteer hours that you put in . It ' s very 3 much appreciated . Thank you . 4 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Thank you . 5 MS . RAND : You ' re coordinator of public 6 services? 7 MR . OCHS : I ' m public services administrator, 8 Tom' s former position . So , like Sam said, I ' m new . 9 I ' m trying to figure out where things are, who does 10 what . So we ' ll learn together here , Sam. 11 MR. WELBORN : Very good . 12 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Okay . Specific updates . We 13 have nothing in here . Is that - - are we going to 14 get something now? 15 MS . RAMSEY : No, we ' re not . Not unless you 16 have something you want to give me that you want to 17 request that I give an update on . 18 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Does anybody have any 19 specific items that they would like update on at 20 this time? 21 MS . RAND : Just one , and I know this isn ' t 22 something that you ' re going to be covering, but on 23 the Bluebill part on the bypass , it said you were 24 going to maybe just check with transportation to 25 see if there was any arrangement for getting GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 10 1 people , you know, any improvements in the lane 2 across the bridge or how that was going to be 3 developed to get people from the bridge to the 4 south side of the road . 5 MS . RAMSEY: We actually met on Thursday or 6 Friday of last week and we got an update on that . 7 Joe , do you want to go ahead and explain a 8 little bit about what that is , what they ' re doing? 9 MR . DELATE : We met with the developer of that 10 parcel . We met with the Dunes developer of the 11 signature community and their representatives and 12 they are required by the PUD, planned unit 13 development , zoning document , to widen the access 14 across the bridge for a sidewalk as well as bikes 15 lanes all the way over to Gulf Shore Drive . So at 16 this time they are proposing a two-lane road with 17 bike lanes on each side and sidewalks on each side . 18 That ' s their preliminary plan . That ' s not the 19 final plan . They may adjust that , but that ' s 20 currently what they are proposing . 21 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Okay . Any other specific 22 updates? 23 Okay . Now we ' re on to old business . Do we 24 have any old business? We have a lot of no inserts 25 today . No old business . GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 11 1 Okay, reports and updates . The monthly 2 reports . This is our old revenue user card, 3 correct? 4 MS . RAMSEY : Correct . 5 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Did you make some changes? I 6 thought we had already seen March ' s report . 7 MS . RAMSEY : BJ? 8 MS . JOHNSON : I wasn' t in there last month 9 because I was making some changes . 10 CHAIRMAN GRICE : So we are going to see them 11 about sixty days in arrears or forty-five days , or 12 something like that? 13 MS . JOHNSON: It ' s difficult to get it done 14 because the concessionaire reports don ' t come in 15 until the 15th or the 16th, and the packets have to 16 be out ahead of time . So it ' s sometimes - - 17 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Okay . 18 MS . JOHNSON : - - the timing doesn ' t coincide 19 correctly . 20 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Any questions on the chart , 21 spreadsheet? 22 Okay . There being no questions , we can move 23 along to the BCC recap . Were there any questions 24 on this? 25 Marla, I would like for you to explain . GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 12 1 I had an opportunity this week to talk to 2 Marla quite extensively, and we were going over 3 some of these items today or the other day and she 4 explained to me some things that I didn ' t 5 understand, I didn ' t know, that it made it a little 6 easier to read these . 7 I would like for you to go over these same 8 things with the rest of us so that maybe we can all 9 be singing from the same hymnal then . 10 MS . RAMSEY : I think what you are referring to 11 is what the number system means underneath the item 12 number . If it has a 16 in front of it , that means 13 it ' s ongoing and the board will not discuss it . 14 That ' s why you will not see an approval behind 15 those , because those are kind of blessed at the 16 beginning of the meeting . They are pulled off and 17 discussed . They are routine kind of activities 18 with no controversy, so to speak, and they are 19 blessed at the beginning of the meeting . 20 The other number set that you will see there 21 will be an 8 number, and that is a item that was 22 put on the regular agenda to be discussed by the 23 Board of County Commissioners . And those are the 24 ones that you will find approvals . As you can see , 25 the two that are listed here over 50 on both of GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 13 1 those, the one being the recreation open space 2 element with the Growth Management Plan, which is a 3 report that we give to them as to how well we ' re 4 doing on that and what areas we would like to see 5 changed, and the second one was for the approval 6 for the performers for the Summerfest Rock and Ride 7 night , which is a teen concert that we hope to do 8 in conjunction with our Summerfest over June 15th, 9 16th and 17th, I think is that . And an update on 10 that particular item is that we are unable to 11 secure a performer that can come for that weekend . 12 So we are going to take the grant money, $10 , 000 13 grant money, that was allocated to us and move it 14 to September 17th, which will be the day after our 15 Country Jamboree . So we ' ll have Country Jamboree 16 for two days and a Summerfest or a teen concert on 17 the Sunday following it . 18 One of our goals on this particular concert is 19 to make sure that it ' s a nice act , so to speak, a 20 clean act . The message that they are sending to 21 the public is going to be hopefully void of drugs , 22 alcohol , sex, et cetera . So it ' s a little harder 23 to find those groups out there that will come down 24 for a one shot outdoor concert . So this will give 25 us a little bit more time to secure an act that we GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 14 1 think is good for the community . 2 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Thank you very much . 3 Does anybody else have any questions about the 4 BCC recap? 5 MS . RAND : I was wondering about the Growth 6 Management Plan . When was there any kind of 7 amendment to the recreation open space element in 8 terms of any amendments or changes that were made 9 in that and how - - you know, is that something you 10 do annually? 11 MS . RAMSEY : We do updates on the recreation 12 open space element as far as facilities and 13 facility spaces that we have , and we look at 14 adjusting dollar amounts attached to them, because , 15 as we go through what we billed twenty or fifteen 16 years ago, there ' s a different price tag attached 17 to those now . And part of that Growth Management 18 not only deals with acreage per population but also 19 with capital dollars , $179 per capita in Collier 20 County . So we update those annually to make sure . 21 I don' t know that we have had a policy change or 22 objective change in there in quite some time . Not 23 in the three years that I have been here . 24 MS . RAND : It is possible that , coming out of 25 the community character planning process , there may GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 15 1 be , you know, major changes or amendments that 2 might grow out of that Growth Management Plan? 3 MS . RAMSEY : That ' s a possibility, yes . 4 CHAIRMAN GRICE : I had a request to go back to 5 the specific updates . 6 MS . BARNETT : I just wanted to know if we have 7 had any reports on the dog park . I ' ve heard from 8 people that have just said it ' s great and I wanted 9 to know if that was the consensus that you ' ve heard 10 as well . 11 MS . RAMSEY : This afternoon I read through 12 about twenty-five evaluations that we ' ve collected 13 so far out there , and every one of them has been 14 positive , complementary . A couple of requests that 15 we have had come off of those have been, can we 16 have a water fountain for people and can we have a 17 few more benches , because, if there were more 18 benches to sit down on, people would stay longer 19 with their pets . Those are the two items that are 20 easy for us to address . And I know that Joe has 21 got it on his list to do that as soon as we 22 possibly can . I know he was talking with the 23 plumber today . So hopefully we can address that . 24 Very, very positive , very good press . We have 25 received a lot of good press off that park as well . GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 16 1 For the two acres , two and a half acres that we 2 have there , we ' ve gotten a lot of play off of it . 3 They are averaging about - - I believe last night 4 was fifty dogs in the park and that was between 5 6 : 30 and 7 : 30 at night . That ' s the prime time . So 6 if you are looking to just come out and see the 7 park in action, come between 6 : 30 and 7 : 30 just 8 about any evening . I was out there a week ago 9 Wednesday, I believe it was , and there was probably 10 forty- five dogs and as many humans in there as 11 well . And everyone was very appreciative of the 12 opportunity to be able to bring their dog to the 13 park . And, of course, the first question is , where 14 else are we going to do it and can we have them in 15 all parks? So - - and I know that we ' re going to 16 address of little bit of that later this afternoon . 17 MS . BARNETT : So there hasn ' t been any 18 negative , that we ' ve heard? 19 MS . RAMSEY : The only negative we have is that 20 we go through doggy bags like that . 21 MS . BARNETT : That ' s good, that people are 22 using them. 23 MR . SMITH : We went through 6 , 000 in the first 24 two weeks . 25 CHAIRMAN GRICE : How many? GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 17 1 MR . SMITH : 6 , 000 . 2 MS . RAND : We ' ve been there about three times 3 and it ' s not only a neat thing for the dogs , I 4 notice that the benches help because a lot of 5 people go with their dogs and you get to meet 6 people . The thing that ' s amazing is all the dogs 7 get along . 8 MS . BARNETT : Except for mine . 9 CHAIRMAN GRICE : We ' ve got to do things one at 10 the time here folks . She ' s got to record 11 everything that everyone says , so we need to do it 12 one at a time . 13 MR . McMAHON : I ' m next . 14 CHAIRMAN GRICE : And you ' re next . 15 MR . McMAHON : I ' ve heard a lot of people come 16 to me and tell me that they are having a lot of fun 17 out there . The dogs are doing great . And several 18 people have inquired about a pool for the dogs , 19 especially with the summer coming up , and they 20 asked me to bring that up and see what everybody 21 thought . I don ' t know what that is . That may be 22 something that you might want to look into . 23 MS . RAMSEY : Do you mean like a pool or like a 24 shower? I ' ve heard people ask for a shower, which 25 is real easy for us to put in . GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 18 1 MR . McMAHON : I never heard the shower . I 2 heard, like, the pool . 3 MS . BARNETT : Like a pond? 4 MR . McMAHON : Like something that they can get 5 in and cool off in the afternoons and in the 6 summer . Like I said, I told them I would bring it 7 up . 8 MS . RAMSEY : Our plan at that park is we ' ve 9 got some plastic containers that we ' re putting out 10 and asking for suggestions . I have talked to dog 11 owners out there and some of them are very pro to 12 having a water source to wet the dog down and 13 others are very anti that because they don ' t want 14 to take their dog home wet . That ' s one thing we 15 may need to kind of iron out here as to, do we want 16 to do that? I don ' t know . We might get some 17 negative off of that by doing it , or we ' ll get 18 positive , too . So I ' m not sure what we want to do . 19 MR . McMAHON: We can always fence another area 20 off and they can let the dogs go in the wet area by 21 choice . 22 MS . BARNETT : Is anyone using the small dog 23 area? 24 MS . RAMSEY : It varies . When I was out there 25 a week ago there was nobody at first , but then, by GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 19 1 the time I got ready to leave, there were like five 2 or six dogs in it , so I don ' t know . It ' s not as 3 heavily used as the other . But it is an 4 opportunity for them to separate their dogs off . 5 Even bigger dogs I ' ve seen over there in order to 6 rest for a few minutes so that the owner can take 7 their eyes off of them, so to speak . 8 MS . RAND : I have an idea . Could we have a 9 dog wash? It would be like a little thing that the 10 dogs run through and get squirted from all sides , 11 like a car wash . 12 MS . BARNETT : The only problem is getting your 13 dog to go through it . I know mine wouldn ' t go 14 voluntarily. 15 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Okay . Those would be good 16 items for new business . 17 MS . RAMSEY: Next time . 18 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Next month? 19 MS . RAMSEY : You want to do that next month? 20 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Yes . 21 MR . OLESKY : We ' ll do it in July . 22 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Okay . All right . The 23 special events calendar . I see one of those in 24 here . This is the summer teen event . This is 25 going to be happening June 15th? GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 20 1 MS . RAMSEY : This is the item that I was 2 talking about a few minutes ago . That ' s kind of 3 our next big event . It ' s a carnival attached with 4 some music , dancing, and food and beverages . We 5 have held it at Golden Gate, at the Golden Gate 6 Community Center . So if you ' re free that weekend, 7 come and join us . 8 MS . RAND : Are any of these events that ones 9 that you moved to, September or is that something 10 extra? 11 MS . RAMSEY : Some of these are with our teen 12 committee that Steve Peppers works with, one of our 13 recreation supervisors . And we work in conjunction 14 with the city, and they do some events , we do some 15 events . So this is an extension of what we offer 16 to the kids during the summer when there ' s no 17 school in progress , kind of a diversion, so to 18 speak . 19 MS . RAND : But the concert is not - - 20 MS . RAMSEY : Not one of these , no . It ' s not 21 listed here . That ' s going to be September 17th . 22 CHAIRMAN GRICE : So these are all still good? 23 MS . RAMSEY : These are all still good . 24 CHAIRMAN GRICE : And then we have parks 25 update , and there ' s no insert on that one . Is this GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 21 1 going to be just a verbal report? 2 MS . RAMSEY : Yes . 3 MR. DELATE : I was on vacation for two weeks 4 while this was prepared . By the time I got back, I 5 didn ' t have time to complete an agenda packet or 6 anything else . I want to give you a parks update . 7 I ' ll keep it very brief . 8 We have an update on Collier Park . We ' ve been 9 meeting with the adjacent property owner and we ' re 10 working on our final design-out project . That 11 continues on . 12 Clam Pass boardwalk construction staging has 13 started . Boardwalk re-decking will begin 14 approximately June 1st . We ' re working with The 15 Registry on the logistics of that project , and they 16 are in the process of doing some redesign in the 17 concession area for their permitting for the DEP . 18 Eagle Lakes Park, we have the ninety percent 19 plans for the lighting for the second soccer field 20 site as well as we are going to add some additional 21 lighting at the playground out there . 22 Golden Gate Community Park walkway, we ' re 23 calling it the Golden Gate Greenway . That ' s the 24 pathway that ' s going to connect our community park 25 to 951 . We are proceeding with the purchase from GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 22 1 two property owners for easements , as well as 2 buying a five-acre tract within there for a small 3 passive park . Phase II pathway within the park, as 4 I told you before, that ' s out to bid . The bids 5 have come in and we ' ll have a finished project by 6 the end of the fiscal year, which will be by 7 October 1st . 8 Immokalee soccer field lighting, we have 9 ninety percent plans on that . We are proceeding 10 with that project . 11 Max Hasse Park, we ' ve seen the preliminary 12 plans for that . Maybe next month we may bring 13 those in and show them to you, there ' s not really 14 enough time this meeting, and we ' ll show those 15 plans in detail . But we have an architectural plan 16 as well a site plan ready for that . And it ' s 17 proceeding along well . 18 North Naples Regional Park, the Board of 19 County Commissioners yesterday approved the design 20 contract for that park, a little over a million 21 dollars . And that ' s with Belnor, Herbert 22 (phonetic) as the lead . They are a landscape 23 architectural company out of Orlando who has done 24 many parks throughout the state . They are a very 25 high class team. And we ' re going start the design GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 23 1 process from here on . 2 Pelican Bay Park, we ' re working with the 3 croquet and lawn bowling group . We ' re putting out 4 right now a request for proposals for doing the 5 design for that re-configuration of that facility. 6 Tract 179 Park, that ' s a neighborhood park in 7 Golden Gate . We have hired Michael McGee, a 8 landscape architect , to design that park . And 9 we ' re looking at some submissions with rocks and 10 things out there . And that project is moving 11 forward . 12 Sugden Park Phase II design is almost done . 13 And Tiger Tail , we ' ve received the City of Marco 14 variance approval for that coastal construction 15 line variance . And right now it ' s in the process 16 of being submitted to the DEP for their approval . 17 So that project is moving along well . 18 Exotic removal is going very well . We ' ve 19 finished Pelican Bay beach access , Vanderbilt Beach 20 parking area . Cocohatchee Park, they have finished 21 since we last had this meeting, and we are going to 22 do Bayview Park at the end of June . 23 This Friday bids are due on 951 Coast Guard 24 area . That ' s the area to the east as you approach 25 the bridge to Marco Island . We have a little piece GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 24 1 of land there . We are going to work on that , 2 exotics . 3 We are going to next attack Palm Springs Park, 4 East Naples Community Park, and Sugden Park is 5 ongoing. It ' s being done right now . It ' s 6 continuing . We should receive some good news . 7 South Marco Beach access renovation, we 8 received a DEP approval permit for doing that 9 upgrade of the beach access there . The good thing 10 is , it ' s not costing us as much money as the 11 adjacent developer is paying for that , and we ' re 12 going to upgrade that with a paver path and a small 13 plaza all the way to the beach . And construction 14 should begin very shortly, as soon as Marco City 15 gets approval , which should be imminent . 16 Veterans Park, covering the lower hockey rink, 17 we have a structural engineer and an electrical 18 engineer on board working on the plans on the 19 project and the design process and soon will be 20 bidding that . 21 And let ' s see . Vickers parking lot , we ' re 22 going to be working with cooperation with the 23 school board on that parking lot over here , along 24 Vanderbilt Beach Road . We ' re just about to write a 25 work order with local design firm to do that GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 25 1 parking lot . We ' ll coordinate that with the 2 transportation department as they are getting 3 prepared to widen Vanderbilt Beach Road right out 4 here to four lanes , eventually to six lanes . So 5 we ' re working with them and the school board on 6 that . 7 951 boat ramp, we finished re-paving that 8 site . We finished adding a guardrail and the curb 9 stops . And it ' s pretty much a complete renovation . 10 We are going to add possibly a couple of trees out 11 there and some new signage . Other than that , it ' s 12 done . 13 And we ' ve been working on some other projects 14 that we ' re going to talk about when we get to the 15 beach and water report , which will be the public 16 hearing at the end . And we ' ll give you updates on 17 all the beach and water park activities . 18 That ' s all I have . If you have any other 19 questions - - next month, you ' ll have a written 20 report . 21 MS . RAMSEY : I have one thing I want to add to 22 that . I want to talk briefly about Clam Pass and 23 the closing of Clam Pass . As you are all aware of , 24 when we are doing that boardwalk, we ' re closing 25 that parking lot there to the public . And I have GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 26 1 been working with The Registry and with the WCI , 2 who owns the Seagate parking area, that segment 3 down in there, about alternates for public access 4 in that area . We have two things that we ' re 5 working with right now . With WCI , I ' m trying to 6 get them to give us some overflow parking area, 7 some gravel area there that we can put maybe ten or 8 fifteen extra cars in so they can utilize that 9 access point . That ' s our number one priority . If 10 we can ' t get that , then I ' ve worked out with The 11 Registry on the weekends to use their parking lot 12 between their tennis court on Seagate, coming in 13 towards The registry on the right-hand side, a 14 twenty-nine space parking lot , their driver, our 15 fifteen passenger van, to shuttle down to the 16 Seagate access point . And so those are new things 17 that we ' re working on currently . I ' m not - - we ' ll 18 probably be already into the process before you 19 will hear which one is final because we only have a 20 week to really get it together . 21 I don ' t know if you have any comments about 22 either one of those two . I would welcome those . 23 Again, the shuttle would only be on the weekends 24 because we don ' t believe there would be a lot of 25 demand during the weekdays . GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 27 1 That ' s a little update for you . And we ' ll 2 have signage and we ' ll put up something in the 3 paper as to whichever one happens , hopefully by the 4 1st . 5 MS . RAND : Will you have a van in the 6 department that you ' re going to use for the 7 shuttle? 8 MS . RAMSEY : Yes . We have a current fifteen 9 passenger van in our fleet that we would just 10 dedicate over there on the weekends . 11 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Any other questions on that 12 subject? 13 Joe , I do have a couple questions . There - - I 14 believe it was in the newspaper this morning that 15 they are not going to four-lane 111th Avenue now . 16 Does that make any changes in the plans to Conner 17 Park? 18 MR . DELATE : It does make some in that we 19 won ' t be provided with curbing . So we are going to 20 have to provide our own barricading to keep people 21 from curbing the park once it ' s completed . That 22 will be the only real change . We may have to put 23 in a temporary irrigation system for grass between 24 where the edge of the pavement is now as opposed to 25 where it would eventually be at four lanes . That GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 28 1 would be the only change . 2 MS . RAMSEY : The one thing that wasn ' t clear 3 on that is that they were discussing the four- lane 4 itself and not the intersection in yesterday ' s 5 paper . So we ' re not exactly sure what the 6 intersection is still going to look like . It could 7 be a stoplight or it could be a roundabout . And 8 they are still studying that . So there ' s still 9 going to be some improvements to that area . We 10 just don ' t know exactly what they are going to be 11 yet . 12 CHAIRMAN GRICE : So does it look like we ' re 13 going to have to be adding some more expense 14 possibly there? 15 MR . DELATE : Possibly to provide the curbing 16 but probably end up using something alternate, like 17 plant material or rock or wood or concrete 18 boulders . 19 CHAIRMAN GRICE : And the other question I had 20 was , since we ' re getting ready to re-configure the 21 Pelican Bay Park, have we had any contact with 22 those folks that were doing the fundraising to 23 actually pay for installing the croquet and lawn 24 bowling area or we ' re installing and they are 25 taking care of it? GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 29 1 MS . RAMSEY: No . Actually, the way we ' ve 2 worked that out is that we ' re getting a price on 3 the design and they will provide us with the 4 funding . 5 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Has anybody had any 6 conversation with them as to how well they are 7 doing with their fundraising? 8 MS . RAMSEY : Yes . Actually, just before last 9 meeting I had a meeting with them, and they are 10 ready to go with the design . They have got that 11 much funding available right now that they can 12 write the check to us so that we can go ahead with 13 the design aspect of it . And I know Joe is in 14 conversations with the group about what that design 15 should look like . And they will actually be 16 involved with helping to design that all along the 17 way . 18 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Okay . 19 MS . RAND : I have one question . When you were 20 going through your exotic removal list , you 21 mentioned a small piece of property that you had 22 just recently purchased that I didn ' t catch where 23 it was and what you are going to use it for . 24 MR . DELATE : Are you talking Marco Bridge or 25 the Coast Guard site , or did you say the Greenway, GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 30 1 the piece of property that we are buying there? 2 MS . RAND : No . It was in your list of exotic 3 removal . 4 MR . DELATE : Coast Guard site would be the 5 only one . I mentioned the East Naples , Sugden 6 Park, Pelican Bay Beach, Vickers/Vanderbilt , 7 Cocohatchee, Bayview Park, 951 Coast Guard area, 8 Palm Springs Park . So it would have to have been 9 951 Coast Guard area . We ' ve owned that for a 10 while . We ' re just going to remove the exotics 11 there, now that the building is demolished . 12 MS . RAND : Do you have any idea what you ' re 13 going to use the site for? 14 MS . RAMSEY: That particular site is currently 15 being used by jet skiers . They pull into that 16 location, and then the jet skiers use that as their 17 launch site . What we ' re trying to do is just clean 18 the site up . And then we have had conversations 19 with the Department of Transportation, the Florida 20 Department of Transportation, about the trolly 21 bridge . And hopefully, when they go to do their 22 design on that , they will remember that we ' re still 23 talking to them and help us do something under the 24 bridge , a walkway to connect the two areas , to make 25 that into a little park area down there . That ' s GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 31 1 what our ultimate goal is at that location . 2 Whether it will have jet ski only or boat launch 3 facilities or fishing pier only or what , we ' re not 4 exactly sure , but we do want to be involved in the 5 process . 6 MS . RAMSEY : And I have a request that - - I 7 know we ' ve already got our meeting scheduled, kind 8 of laid out , but I ' m not familiar with the parks 9 down in that area . I was wondering if at one of 10 our meetings - - I know it is a long ways for 11 everybody, but like we did in Immokalee, when you 12 took us around and kind of gave us an update of 13 everything, that got me at least knowing what you 14 were talking about there . If we ever could do that 15 in Marco , that would help . There ' s a lot of things 16 going on down there . 17 MS . RAMSEY : We can have a traveling day, if 18 you would like . No problem. 19 MS . RAND : Okay . 20 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Plan that for July . 21 Okay . Thank you, Joe . 22 Anybody have any other questions for him? 23 Okay . All right . Adopt a park report . And I 24 don' t believe we have one this month because - - 25 MR . OLESKY : Don' t bet on that . GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 32 1 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Oh, we have one . We ' re going 2 to have one for two in a row . 3 MR . OLESKY : All right . Community Park in 4 Immokalee, the parking light and some of the 5 walking lights are out . I would like to see them 6 fixed . The playground lights are out again . I 7 have kids playing in there . This is the second 8 month in a row that they were out , I don ' t know for 9 a burnout or just something wrong with the 10 electrical in it , but they should be fixed . Then 11 the basketball court , we have got a net out in the 12 center court . 13 All the parks look good as far as trash goes 14 this month . I was very surprised . But they are 15 looking real good and it ' s starting to improve . 16 Sports complex, we had lighting out in the parking 17 lot there also . There was three double lights and 18 they were out . 19 South Park, we have had three security lights 20 out since we ' ve opened that park . They are right 21 by the trailer, right by our trailer . I would like 22 to see them get fixed . And we have two lights out , 23 one on the playground and one that shines off part 24 of the playground and the basketball court . And 25 they were out last month, too . GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 33 1 And Dreamland Park, we had a security light 2 out there, too . And, other than that , I didn ' t go 3 to over to Airport Park. I was too scared . 4 CHAIRMAN GRICE : You were scared? 5 MR . OLESKY : Yes , I was . It ' s usually kind of 6 dark over there, so - - 7 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Thank you, Ski . 8 MR . OLESKY : You ' re welcome . 9 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Okay . The meeting schedule . 10 Our next meeting is at the Cocohatchee River Park 11 on Vanderbilt Drive, and I will not be at that 12 meeting . I will be away on my vacation. Our vice 13 president will be in charge, hopefully with a back 14 that ' s better . 15 Okay . And the membership address list . 16 Anybody have any problem with that? It looks like 17 it ' s in great shape . It probably will stay that 18 way . 19 Okay . New business . Caxambas Dog Park, and 20 we have a speaker . I suppose she ' s here . 21 MS . LEE : I ' m here . Should I go any 22 particular place to speak? 23 MS . RAMSEY : Go right up to the podium. 24 MS . LEE : For the record, my name is Sandy Lee 25 and I live on Marco Island and have lived on Marco GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 34 1 Island for twelve years . 2 Firstly, I wanted to - - I guess particularly 3 Murdo Smith - - to thank you so much for the dog 4 park . That ' s what I ' m up here about . We ' ve waited 5 a long time and we are the owners of two small 6 Pomeranians , and we have been up a number of times 7 from Marco . As you might imagine , it ' s a bit of a 8 distance for us but we are so thrilled to have the 9 facility that we make the effort to come up . 10 In the twelve years that we ' ve been on Marco, 11 one of my favorite places - - and I don ' t know if 12 all the people here have been there - - is the 13 public dock area . And for years we have seen the 14 front area of the public dock area as a possible 15 dog rover run . It is an ideal setup . I brought 16 pictures , which I would be happy to pass out , if 17 you would like . As you enter to the public dock 18 area, there are fenced areas on the right and on 19 the left that are just there and beautiful . They 20 are grassed in . There are trees beautifully 21 maintained . They don ' t do anything . There aren ' t 22 any picnic benches , there isn ' t anything, just an 23 area that ' s there . And we ' ve often felt that even 24 one side of that area could be split into two as 25 you ' ve done up in Veterans Park and made into GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 35 1 another rover run . 2 I don ' t know the intricacies of county versus 3 city . I haven ' t approached the city . We don ' t 4 really have a lot of facilities yet to work with . 5 And, looking at this particular facility, it just 6 seems like a perfect fit . But I thought - - I 7 E-mailed Mr . 011iff and Ms . Ramsey just to thank 8 them for having the facilities and mentioned that 9 this was a thought in the back of my mind, and I 10 was kind of curious where I should go from there . 11 And it was suggested that I come up and just speak 12 with you very briefly . And I don' t know where to 13 go from here . I don ' t know what a private citizen 14 should do from here, but I just thought at least we 15 can put the thought in your mind and let you know 16 there ' s a perfect place to further extend this and 17 that there is obviously a demand on Marco for it . 18 I would be happy to answer any questions , if 19 you have any . 20 One other thought , too, when you were talking 21 about the two things . Number one , the doggy 22 shower . It sounds like a great concept , 23 particularly with the idea that it will get very 24 hot during the summer . The only question that I 25 have is that in that area there it ' s mostly sand GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 36 1 and dirt , and these dogs , if they get into water, 2 are going to be absolutely filthy . So it ' s just a 3 thought , because if the dogs are filthy, the owners 4 are going to be filthy too . 5 And, in reference to the small dog area, we 6 have been up there a number of times and there have 7 been different numbers of dogs up there . But one 8 time we had over fifteen little dogs all up there 9 together, and I think the idea of another area to 10 sit would be very nice , because the point was very 11 well made and very true that , not only as the park 12 ranger said, do the dogs enjoy it , the owners enjoy 13 it as much, if not more than the dogs . It ' s just a 14 marvelous thing . 15 So that ' s about it , unless I can answer any 16 questions . 17 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Thank you, Sandy . 18 MS . LEE : Thank you . You ' re free to keep the 19 pictures . I have more . And my husband came with 20 me , I don ' t know if - - 21 MS . RAMSEY : Would you like to speak? 22 MR . LEE : Can I add to those comments? 23 MS . RAMSEY : Sure . Go ahead . 24 MR . LEE : As my wife was saying - - 25 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Identify yourself , please . GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 37 1 MR . LEE : My name is Robert Lee . 2 Sometimes too much is not good and I think 3 most dog owners would just appreciate the 4 opportunity to have a place where their dogs were 5 welcomed . And we don ' t want an air conditioned, 6 domed type of park with HBO, running water, or 7 anything else like that . 8 I ' m sorry that the doggy bags have become such 9 a problem here . I think that ' s amazing . I didn ' t 10 know the dogs were so prolific . Maybe somebody 11 ought to take them to the bathroom before they get 12 to the park . But I know it works in other areas . 13 I , for example , bring my own large-sized Publix 14 little plastic container there , so that takes care 15 of some of the things , so I ' m not a heavy user on 16 your doggy bags . But I ' ve noticed one thing that 17 the people who have used the park have really been 18 dog friendly . And I notice there ' s a lot of people 19 in this area here that are not dog friendly, which 20 is probably why we have so many rules against it . 21 But the people up there really do appreciate it a 22 hundred percent . And we thank you very much for 23 the opportunity at least at this point to have 24 something, someplace to go . 25 I noticed that it was rather cool up there one GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 38 1 time when we were up and the temperature was hot . 2 So you got a little shade thing . And if you look 3 at those pictures , you also have trees there 4 already in place . You got a fence that ' s already 5 built , so you don ' t need to spend a lot of money in 6 that area . And all you got is the land, if you 7 wanted to divide it up . In one way I think it 8 could be operated relatively inexpensively . At the 9 same time it would give Collier County more of a 10 presence on Marco, which is fine , too . And Collier 11 is a pretty big county, as you know, so we got 12 something for this end, now we need something for 13 the south end. 14 And I appreciate the opportunity to express 15 these opinions . Any other questions? 16 MS . RAND : Did you look at other parks? Did 17 you look at all the other parks on Marco to kind of 18 come to the - - 19 MR . LEE : There is not very many parks on 20 Marco to look at , to be honest with you . Mackcoe 21 (phonetic) is the ultimate . But Mackcoe has 22 certain problems and - - or certain situations . For 23 example, you got that big lake with a trail around 24 it , which is nice to carry your - - to walk a dog 25 around . But you also got ducks and things like GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 39 1 that . That could be a problem to the ducks , and 2 then people would complain because they are 3 disrupting the birds and so forth . 4 The second thing about Mackcoe is that you got 5 areas where the kids use to play on, and sometimes 6 the small dog, like a Pomeranian like my wife 7 mentioned, and other smaller dogs could be an 8 attractive nuisance . We don ' t really want to be an 9 attractive nuisance, children who want to come over 10 and pet your dog and so forth and so on. All we 11 want is a place to have for our own enjoyment and 12 for the enjoyment of the dogs who are also a part 13 of our life . 14 Being retired, I don ' t have any children here . 15 Mine are all grown up and gone away, so my kids are 16 my puppies . 17 MR . McMAHON: I ' ve got a couple boys out there 18 on the playground . 19 MR . LEE : The only one thing I was thinking of 20 is , if you wanted to spend money, rather than dog 21 showers , you could build a small agility course . 22 That would be a lot of fun for the dogs because I 23 probably created a criminal act , that is to say, I 24 took my dogs to the school down there at Tommy 25 Bartlett when nobody was around, and they learned GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 40 1 how to climb up a little children' s slide . 2 Actually, if you saw a little Pomeranian going up 3 and down the slide m, it ' s an interesting 4 experience . Unfortunately, they take the slide 5 apart now, so you - - they can' t go up and down that 6 thing anymore . But they do love - - little dogs , 7 big dogs , they love to run, they love to have 8 little places where they can, you know, sort of do 9 their thing . 10 And to show you how important they are to us , 11 you have jets up in Fort Myers scaring the birds 12 away . Now, all our dogs aren ' t jets , but we 13 certainly should reward them, I think . 14 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Thank you very much . 15 MR . LEE : Anybody here hate dogs? And I don' t 16 know . I hope that this - - I hope you don ' t feel 17 that we ' re asking for something and then you ' re 18 opening the door here to somebody who says , well , I 19 want a park for my cat or give me a hamster park, 20 or something like that . I really hope that we 21 could get something here and keep it under control , 22 in other words , not let it get too far out of 23 control . I ' ve seen a lot of people here who don ' t 24 know obviously how to use their - - how to keep 25 dogs , maintain dogs , and make dogs part of the GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 41 1 community . It ' s unfortunate . I usually try to 2 tell them when I see this , you know, you should be 3 walking around with a little bag in our pockets 4 like I do when I take the dogs for a walk and so 5 forth . 6 And you ' ve seen a lot of things in some of the 7 areas up in Golden Gate where they have used dogs , 8 like the junkyard dogs . I don ' t think - - that ' s 9 not representative of the dog owners of this 10 community at least . I think that down here there 11 are generally a lot who feels that everything can 12 be compatible . Dogs can be compatible with people 13 and people can be compatible with dogs . 14 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Thank you very much, Mr . Lee . 15 I ' m going to address this issue as I believe I 16 recall that what we had done when we had decided on 17 doing the rover run is that we were in fact going 18 to examine the results of rover run for a year 19 before we did anything else . And that ' s what - - as 20 I recall , that ' s what the board had agreed to . So 21 what we ' re going to do is - - I think possibly this 22 is a very good area for one . I can ' t see the 23 fences and stuff that she ' s referring to in the 24 photographs , but I ' m assuming - - that ' s okay . I 25 don ' t need to see them at this time . We will - - I GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 42 1 think we will probably keep this in mind for a 2 later date because we are going to give it that 3 year . It ' s only been in existence just a little 4 over a month now, hasn ' t it? 5 MS . RAMSEY : Not quite a month . 6 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Not quite a month . So we 7 will keep an eye on what ' s going on there , see how 8 things go with that dog park . And if we can 9 possibly expand them, we probably will , and 10 probably more than just one area . So we ' re 11 going - - I 'm going to table this until when that 12 time comes that we would be looking at a more 13 serious aspect of doing something here . 14 MR . OLESKY : I do have one comment , John. 15 About that particular park, I was down there today . 16 I run by before I come up here , and it ' s fairly 17 narrow on the right-hand side as you go in . The 18 other side , there is a fence on three sides , but I 19 think you would have a problem with parking because 20 that ' s a boating area, and I know it overflows now 21 with boats . And I believe it would be a problem 22 with the park . 23 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Okay . 24 MR . OLESKY : So in fact if it could be 25 addressed somehow, then possibly - - GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 43 1 MS . BARNETT : There was a new park in that 2 direction that was possibly being considered down 3 the road . 4 MR . OLESKY : It was 951 . 5 MS . RAMSEY : We ' ve got about sixty acres right 6 next to Manatee Elementary School , if you are 7 familiar where that location is . It ' s back behind 8 the outlet mall , right off of 951 . We have sixty 9 acres over there . We originally were talking about 10 trying to put the dog park in that location . 11 There ' s a lot more expense involved in that 12 particular location, only because we would have to 13 build a road across the canal to get into it . But 14 it too is treed and fairly good sized, and we 15 probably could get , you know, anywhere , probably a 16 five-acre parcel in that location as well , which 17 would kind of split the difference for Marco 18 Island . 19 But Caxambas doesn ' t work out to be the ideal 20 place . We are still looking at one down toward 21 that area, which would be very close to Marco 22 Island residents . 23 MS . LEE : Could I make one comment? 24 MS . RAMSEY : Sure . 25 MS . LEE : The other thing is , we have a lot of GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 44 1 elderly people with dogs who don ' t like to drive 2 too far . My thought was that was another positive 3 thing for Caxambas . They don' t mind driving on 4 Marco, but the minute they hit 951 , they feel like 5 they are on the Indianapolis 500 . They are 6 terrified of leaving the Island . So it ' s just 7 another thought for that location . 8 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Okay . Everglades City - - do 9 we need to do a motion? 10 MS . RAMSEY : You tabled it . Do you want to do 11 a motion to table it? 12 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Okay . 13 MS . RAMSEY: Somebody want to make a motion to 14 table it? 15 MR . McMAHON : You know what? I would like to 16 make a motion to this . I would like to make a 17 motion that we table this about the doggy park for 18 a six-month period and then re-look at it . Because 19 of the success that we ' re having on the first park, 20 we may want to look at that in six months rather 21 than waiting a year, because of the public outcry 22 for it since that . So maybe we can table this and 23 re-look at it within six months . 24 And I agree with your needing parks down on 25 the south end of town on Marco and in between and GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 45 1 all of that . So it really needs to be looked at in 2 six months . I would suggest that we table it for a 3 six-month period . 4 MS . BARNETT : Second that . 5 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Any discussion on it? 6 MS . RAND : I think it might be a good idea, 7 because I think if there ' s anything that may come 8 up with the rover run once season opens up again, 9 it ' s going to get really overcrowded, and having it 10 kind of move a little more quickly on something 11 else might - - but I do think we need enough time so 12 that whatever problems we haven' t foreseen have a 13 chance to happen, if they are going to happen, and 14 we can come to some kind of a way of solving them. 15 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Okay . Any other comments? 16 Any other discussion? 17 Those in favor of tabling this issue for six 18 months - - does that mean we can have it put on our 19 schedule so that it will appear automatically 20 before us? 21 MS . RAMSEY : Correct . 22 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Okay . In six months , which 23 would be , what , November? 24 MS . RAMSEY : Yes . November, December . 25 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Okay . Those in favor, say GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 46 1 aye . 2 Those opposed, same sign? 3 (No response . ) 4 CHAIRMAN GRICE : I think I heard too many ayes 5 for there to be any . 6 Okay . Now we ' ll go to Everglades City . And 7 we have a presentation from Fran Tifft . There she 8 is . Please identify yourself . 9 MS . TIFFT : I ' m Fran Tifft representing the 10 Everglades Community Fireworks Fund . We would like 11 to put in a request to help us with fireworks for 12 next year . Not this year, but for next year . We 13 would like to ask for $18 , 000 for our fireworks . 14 We are a unique community . Of course most of you 15 know that Everglades is a unique community, but we 16 do our fireworks on a different day so that we get 17 more value for our money . Our fireworks this year 18 are on July 2nd . I would hope all of you would 19 come out and see what a marvelous day it is . It ' s 20 an entire day of fun with a parade and boat races , 21 river races , games for kids , and so on, and then 22 the finale of the fireworks in the evening . 23 It is getting increasingly difficult for us to 24 raise our funds from the community because of 25 economics out in the Everglades area, so we would GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 47 1 like to request or ask you to put in a request in 2 this year ' s budget for fireworks for our community . 3 Any questions? 4 MR . OLESKY : What does it cost for your 5 fireworks display now? 6 MS . TIFFT : We do $8 , 000 this year and it 7 gives us twelve minutes of fireworks . And we would 8 hope to increase the time of the fireworks so that 9 it would come, you know, to more than twelve 10 minutes . 11 MS . RAND : Would you be continuing to raise 12 the 8 , 000 that you have been raising? 13 MS . TIFFT : Yes . We can raise some funds but 14 it gets increasingly difficult . 15 MR . OLESKY : Do you go through the county to 16 see about getting the fireworks? 17 MS . TIFFT : No . They referred us to you . 18 MR . OLESKY : I mean, as far as working with 19 like Marla, if she has to order fireworks , do you 20 order from the same place? 21 MS . TIFFT : No . We get ours from Garden State 22 Fireworks , have for years . 23 MS . RAND : I ' m a little curious as to why it 24 comes to the Parks and Recreation Department for 25 the funding request . GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 48 1 MS . RAMSEY : Everglades City requests for 2 recreational activities have always come through 3 the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board and then 4 right through recreation activity . 5 MS . TIFFT : And this is not just Everglades 6 City . Most of it is unincorporated Collier County . 7 MR . OLESKY : There are five different 8 communities down there . 9 MS . RAND : Where do you have them? 10 MS . TIFFT : As you go into town, there is an 11 area on the left that used to be the old railroad 12 track . That ' s a cleared area, and they have them 13 there . 14 MR . McMAHON : Why do you vary from the 4th to 15 the 2nd? I mean, I ' m a real patriotic person and I 16 don ' t understand that concept . 17 MS . TIFFT : You get more fireworks for your 18 money if you do it on an off day . 19 MR . McMAHON: They do what now? 20 MS . TIFFT : You get more fireworks for your 21 money if you do it on a day other than the 4th . 22 MR . OLESKY: They give you more fireworks than 23 what you would get on the 4th . And they got a 24 celebration down there and everything . 25 MR . McMAHON : So is it actually considered the GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 49 1 Fourth of July fireworks but it ' s done on another 2 day? 3 MS . TIFFT : Yes . 4 MS . BARNETT : How far in advance would you 5 have to know when you need the funds? I mean, 6 you ' re talking about for next year, so you ' re over 7 a year out . 8 MS . TIFFT : Right . 9 MS . BARNETT : I mean - - 10 MS . RAMSEY : I can answer that one for you . 11 This is the budget time for next fiscal year . 12 That ' s why she would need to ask now . 13 MS . BARNETT : Okay . 14 MR . McMAHON : Ski said that you have a 15 festival or something that ' s going on with this 16 that weekend . 17 MS . TIFFT : We have the whole day with the 18 parade and boat races , kids games , entertainment . 19 It ' s an all-day affair, a community affair . 20 MR . McMAHON : Does it have a title? 21 THE WITNESS : Just Everglades Fourth of July . 22 MR . McMAHON : Festival? 23 MS . RAND : The only thing I was wondering is , 24 you ' re currently raising 8 , 000 and you want to have 25 it twice as much . It seems like , why are you GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 50 1 asking for 18 , 000 if you know that it costs 8 , 000 2 to do twelve minutes? It seems like - - what ' s the 3 other 10 , 000? 4 MS . TIFFT : That would give us more time . 5 Twelve minutes is very fast fireworks . 6 MS . RAND : Right . I ' m just thinking, if it ' s , 7 you know, twelve minutes costs you 8 , 000 , it seems 8 like thirty minutes would be 16 or 18 , 000 total . 9 If you are still going to be raising 8 , 000 , why are 10 you asking for 18 , 000 instead of 10? 11 THE WITNESS : Well , we - - well , you know, we 12 accept whatever we get and we work with it . As I 13 say, it ' s increasingly difficult , given the 14 economics in that area, with the fishing and so on, 15 to raise funds because the funds come from the 16 business people mostly . 17 MS . RAMSEY : Maybe I can help put this in 18 perspective for you . Each year Parks and 19 Recreation allocates $25 , 000 for the fireworks 20 celebration that we do at Sugden . We get about 21 twenty minutes worth of fireworks for that $25 , 000 22 on July 4th . Does that help? 23 MS . RAND : Are there any other places that the 24 county funds for the fireworks show? 25 MS . RAMSEY : No . Just Sugden . That ' s a new GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 51 1 one . This will be our third year, I believe . 2 MS . RAND : The city does the one here? 3 MS . RAMSEY : The city does one and Marco 4 Island does one, and both of those are funded by 5 the cities . 6 CHAIRMAN GRICE : How many people actually 7 attended your Fourth of July fireworks celebration 8 last year? 9 MS . BROWN : My name is Judy Brown . I work for 10 the city . I ' m also on the committee with her . 11 Along with the last company that cosponsored this 12 event , they posted the insurance for the daytime 13 event . The fireworks company furnished the 14 insurance for the nighttime event . We were told 15 five years ago that we could get a deal by having 16 the event on another day than the Fourth of July . 17 All the men that work on the Fourth of July events 18 throughout the country with this particular company 19 are busy that day, so they would have to hire a new 20 crew to come in and put the display on for us , 21 which was twelve minutes . They said, we can give 22 you a discount if you have it on another day . 23 Well , we knew that the county had - - sometimes 24 there ' s three events going on in the county on the 25 Fourth of July, I believe , and our town is so GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 52 1 small , we would be like out of the range with 2 everybody else in the county . There ' s no way we 3 could put on the display that the county puts on 4 for the money that they spend . So we agreed to 5 have it that year for - - I think we spent $7 , 500 . 6 They have been good enough to keep it the same 7 price for the twelve minutes for $7 , 500 . And then 8 at the last minute , we boosted it up to another 9 500 . We are lucky enough to get the money to pay 10 for it . And they give us a few more minutes and a 11 spectacular event . 12 We get approximately 600 people that comes 13 from the surrounding areas . Once they see our 14 display - - it ' s usually after what goes on in the 15 county . It seems like it usually follows on the 16 Sunday after the Fourth of July, but this year it 17 will be the Sunday before the Fourth of July . Once 18 you see our display, because you ' re so close to it , 19 you can go anywhere else in the county and you ' ll 20 come back and say ours is the best , even though 21 it ' s the smallest and it ' s only twelve minutes 22 long, because you are right there at it . They give 23 us a wonderful display . It ' s just all over before 24 we realized it . And this year we ' re putting music 25 into it , and we ' ll have music as it goes on . When GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 53 1 we say you ' re right on top of it , you get the ash 2 on your cars . I mean, we ' re right underneath it . 3 And it ' s just gorgeous . And everybody - - you know 4 how you hear people say ooh, ah, yeah, yeah? Well , 5 we still do that in Everglades City because it ' s so 6 great . We would just like to show the people in 7 our end of town that we can put on a really 8 beautiful display for less money, more - - what ' s 9 the word? Ump for the money . 10 MR . OLESKY : More bang for your buck? 11 MS . BROWN : Right . And we ' re coming to the 12 county to ask for help only because we have a lot 13 of people that come to our display who do live 14 outside of Everglades City . We only have probably 15 fifty kids that live inside Everglades City . And 16 right now, we probably only have 350 people that 17 live in Everglades City . But it ' s the surrounding 18 areas that we ' re pulling in . And the event goes on 19 all day long, and everybody just - - we make it seem 20 like the Fourth of July . 21 On the Fourth of July, a lot of those people 22 take their boats or they come to Naples and they 23 see those displays , so they are getting two 24 displays . That ' s not the way we want it to happen, 25 but we cannot afford to have a $25 , 000 display on a GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 54 1 Tuesday night . We have to do the best we can . And 2 that ' s why we ' re asking you for some help . 3 This year we got $3 , 700 from four different 4 organizations . The festival , seafood festival , 5 gave us $2 , 000 . That ' s the most we have ever 6 gotten from them. The city gave us 1 , 500 . The 7 Lions Club gave us 500 . And we collected 400 from 8 private individuals , checks that were given to us . 9 We ' ve got the down payment on the 7 , 500 . Most 10 likely we ' ll come up with 500 more dollars and go 11 to 8 , 000 . That ' s what we used to do, because we 12 like that big ending . 13 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Okay . 14 MS . BROWN : It ' s getting so hard now to get 15 people to donate $20 , $30 . It ' s such a small 16 community . 17 MS . RAND : I have one more question . 18 Everglades City is not incorporated? 19 MS . RAMSEY : Yes , it is . 20 MS . TIFFT : Everglades City is , but not the 21 surrounding areas . 22 MS . RAND : Because I was going to say, you 23 know, in terms of recreational opportunities and 24 that that we ' re providing in that area, the 25 jurisdiction - - GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 55 1 MS . RAMSEY : I think part of what will come 2 down is you need to decide what your policy is 3 going to be, especially with the recreational 4 activities such as this . 5 MS . RAND : Have you gone to the city? 6 MS . BROWN: The City of Everglades? 7 MS . RAND : Yeah . 8 MS . BROWN : They give us 1 , 500 . Remember, 9 their budget , their year budget is a million 10 dollars and that ' s it . We are just so appreciative 11 that they gave us that much. 12 MR . WELBORN : This is for the year 2001 . What 13 are you going to do this year? 14 MS . BROWN : We ' re out there beating on 15 people ' s doors . 16 MR . WELBORN : You are going to have a 17 fireworks display? 18 MS . BROWN : We will have one . It ' s getting 19 hard to get it . We would like to have it bigger 20 and better, that ' s all . We was hoping you could 21 help us . I wanted to say, we - - Parks and Rec has 22 helped the City of Everglades in so many ways in 23 the past , not with something like this , but coming 24 down there and helping with tennis courts . They 25 are down there right now putting in - - I think it ' s GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 56 1 Parks and Rec that is doing it . 2 MS . RAMSEY : You mean the work on the - - 3 MS . BROWN : In the children ' s area, the 4 cushion under the swings . This is the second time 5 they have done this . And the little town 6 appreciates it . They go around saying how great it 7 looks . You guys really have helped the City of 8 Everglades . But it ' s also helping the surrounding 9 areas , because the kids come to our park in the 10 City of Everglades . It looks better all the time . 11 If you don ' t give us any money, thank you 12 anyway for what you have done in the past . Thank 13 you . 14 MS . RAND : The only thing I ' m thinking is , if 15 the whole fund for fireworks for the whole county 16 is 25 , 000 and it ' s not - - I mean, the City of 17 Everglades is not - - is a separate organizational 18 area, that I could go ahead and make a motion - - or 19 what I ' m thinking is just - - I think if we ' ve made 20 contributions to recreational activities there 21 before , that I would be in favor of making a 22 contribution, but perhaps not as much, just in 23 terms of comparing the amount of the cost of the 24 county ' s program. 25 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Well - - GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 57 1 MS . BARNETT : I agree , Mary Ellen . I was 2 thinking more along the lines of maybe something 3 like $5 , 000 . 4 MR . OLESKY : Why don' t we - - I ' m in favor of 5 giving something . I think maybe , being they raised 6 $8 , 000 , maybe we could match it and then that will 7 double their fireworks . 8 MS . RAMSEY: So is your motion going to be to 9 match what they have raised, up to 8? 10 MR . OLESKY: To match the $8 , 000 they have 11 raised, up to $8 , 000 . 12 MS . RAND : The only thing I ' m thinking is that 13 we do want to kind of put a little responsibility 14 on the city to do some of the matching, maybe, if 15 the county is going to . 16 MR . OLESKY : You ' ve got to realize now, you ' re 17 talking about Everglades City and not Naples . 18 MS . RAND : Yes , I know . I mean, not an even 19 match, but put a little bit of the responsibility 20 on the city to come up with a portion of it . 21 MS . BARNETT : They will , Mary Ellen, because, 22 if we say that we will match what they raise up to 23 $8 , 000 , then if the city puts in their 1 , 500 , we 24 match it . I mean, if they only end up with 25 7 , 000 , my understanding is that ' s all we would GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 58 1 match, is 7 , 000 . So there will be some pressure , I 2 think, on the City . 3 MS . RAND : In the overall fund raising. 4 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Anybody want to put that in 5 the form of a motion? 6 MR . OLESKY : I ' ll make a motion, what I said . 7 MS . BARNETT : I ' ll second . 8 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Any more discussion on it? 9 What does that motion exactly read, Ski? 10 MR . OLESKY : That we give Everglades City up 11 to $8 , 000 in matching money for their fireworks 12 display . 13 MR . WELBORN: You said match their money? 14 MR . OLESKY : If they only raise 5 , 000 , that ' s 15 all we give them, 5 , 000 . If they raise the full 16 8 , 000 , we give them 8 , 000 . 17 MS . RAND : And this is for this coming year, 18 it doesn ' t commence - - 19 MS . BARNETT : 2001 . 20 MS . RAND : It ' s not an ongoing commitment . 21 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Okay . Those in favor of that 22 proposal , say aye . 23 MS . BARNETT : Aye . 24 MR . McMAHON : Aye . 25 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Aye . GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 59 1 MR . OLESKY : Aye . 2 MS . RAND : Aye . 3 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Those opposed? 4 MR . WELBORN : No . 5 CHAIRMAN GRICE : One opposed . Okay . 6 MS . RAMSEY : Again, remember that just for the 7 Everglades City people , remember this is a 8 recommendation from the Parks and Recreation Board 9 and it has to go through the Board of County 10 Commissioners in order to have approval of that . 11 MS . TIFFT : Thank you . 12 MS . BROWN : Thank you . 13 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Okay . Are you going to do 14 your beach program report? 15 MS . RAMSEY : Yes , but I need five minutes to 16 set that up . 17 CHAIRMAN GRICE : I was going to take a 18 five-minute break, and I didn ' t know whether to do 19 it before or after . Okay . We are adjourned for 20 five minutes . 21 (A brief recess . ) 22 CHAIRMAN GRICE : The meeting will reconvene 23 now that Marla has got the technical problems 24 solved . 25 MS . RAMSEY : I ' m going to try not to use the GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 60 1 mike . I don ' t think I ' m going to need it in this 2 size of a room. If I need to, let me know and I ' ll 3 pick one up . 4 What we ' re going talk a little bit about is 5 the five-year plan that Parks and Recreation staff 6 has put together to deal with the access and boat 7 ramp issues that we have here in Collier County . 8 First of all , just to give you a little bit of 9 a setting as to where we are with this - - and 10 excuse my back over here - - our Growth Management 11 Plan for recreation and open space talks about one 12 goal that we have . That goal is to provide 13 sufficient parks and recreation facilities and open 14 space areas to meet the needs of the residents and 15 visitors of Collier County . 16 And we have six objectives that we deal with . 17 And tonight I ' m only going to deal with one of 18 those, which is Objection 1 . 3 , which is to continue 19 to ensure that the public developed facilities and 20 open spaces and beaches and public water bodies are 21 accessible to the general public . And so that ' s 22 what this entire talk really is going to be about 23 tonight . 24 To give you a little format of how I want to 25 do this , I ' m going to do the presentation and then GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 61 1 I ' m going to open questions up for the Parks and 2 Recreation Advisory Board . Once they are through, 3 then they will open up the questions to the public . 4 And you should have registered as you came in if 5 you wanted to speak . We ' ll going to allow five 6 minutes at the podium to do so and to give us your 7 comments on the presentation . 8 Okay . Starting off with the beach parking 9 boat ramp expansions . Okay . We have proposed boat 10 ramp and expansions . We have proposed canoe 11 launches . We are talking about parking garages , 12 beach parking expansions , propose a boardwalk, 13 ferry services and then some future services is 14 what we want to talk about as far as our agenda 15 tonight goes . 16 Our first one is going to talk about the boat 17 ramp . There is a - - at the corner of 951 and Isle 18 of Capri - - and I ' m going to show you a map in just 19 a second . At the location of 951 and Isle of 20 Capri , Rookery Bay, DEP, Department of 21 Environmental Protection, has a parcel of land 22 there that was used by the Florida Department of 23 Transportation as a staging area . So it ' s an 24 impacted area currently . We think that we can put 25 twenty-five to thirty parking spaces at that GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 62 1 location, provide a crosswalk at the corner to 2 cross over 951 and allow you to walk down to the 3 existing boat ramp . We ' re looking at a projection 4 of somewhere in 2001 and 2002 for this particular 5 project . And this is the corner of Isle of Capri 6 here and 951 . And this brown area right up in here 7 is the area that I ' m referring to . It ' s about 350 8 linear feet by about 75 linear feet , and currently 9 boats are using that as an overflow parking area . 10 Because the grass is dead at that location, Rookery 11 Bay feels it might be a very nice opportunity for 12 us to allow them to park on that particular side . 13 On the other side of that road, the Rookery 14 Bay is putting in a parking lot and a boat 15 ramp/fishing pier, going into that back bay area 16 there . So that ' s one of our projects that we ' re 17 talking about . 18 This is a schematic of that , showing again, up 19 at the top - - we have to hold it . See? 20 MR . DELATE : Hold it and point . 21 MS . RAMSEY : This again being the parking area 22 coming and doing a crosswalk in this area right 23 here , and then walking down to the boat launch area 24 here . 25 The second one we have for boat ramps that I GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 63 1 want to talk a little bit about is the 951 boat 2 ramp expansion . Currently we have nineteen spaces 3 at that location . We could expand north and 4 possibly south of that existing boat ramp area and 5 add forty- five parking spaces there . We have 6 talked to the Florida Department of Transportation 7 and they are willing to give us an easement . Now 8 we need to talk to the Department of Environmental 9 Protection to find out if we can get a permit to 10 fill that location . If we can do all of that , 11 we ' re talking about a time line of approximately 12 2002 , 2003 fiscal year . 13 And this is our boat ramp currently . Nineteen 14 spaces here that we ' ve just re-surfaced and 15 re-done . And we are talking about expanding this 16 way and from this corner here, all the way up to 17 the light . We feel this corner right here would 18 give us a lot better access into that boat ramp 19 area because we have had the light to provide an 20 in-segment here and an out at that location . 21 And, again, this gives you another one of that 22 last one I was just talking about , coming and going 23 down that direction . 24 If you are familiar with this location at all , 25 you know that this is an extremely popular boat GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 64 1 ramp area and people are parking all over the road, 2 anywhere that they possibly can . And this is a 3 schematic of that location that I was just talking 4 about . Parking here and possibly down here as 5 well , keeping the same boat ramp . We have two 6 ramps in there currently . We don ' t believe we 7 would have a backup on that . And we probably could 8 accommodate all that parking with just those two 9 ramps . 10 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Marla, is there any 11 consideration to put a left turn lane coming from 12 the north on to 951? 13 MS . RAMSEY: We have a lane right here . 14 CHAIRMAN GRICE : No . Up at where the light is 15 at Isle of Capri Boulevard . 16 MS . RAMSEY : To come in here? 17 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Yes . 18 MS . RAMSEY: Oh, yes . Most definitely . That 19 is what we want to do . We would like to have an in 20 there . I don ' t know if I can get an out of there 21 because that depends on how wide this is . There 22 might be a one way going through . But , yes , 23 definitely be able to come in at that light . Make 24 it safer to enter . 25 Another project that we ' re working on as far GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 65 1 as boats go is that we ' re looking at the parcel of 2 land in Goodlin. It ' s 4 . 5 acres . We think we can 3 get somewhere around fifty parking spaces at that 4 location, two boat ramps . It has deep water access 5 right from that location, and I ' ll show you that in 6 just a minute . There are marinas on either side of 7 that . So we can accommodate the fueling and the 8 bait needs at that location without having to add 9 anything to our own . We envision this particular 10 location to be very similar to our Bayview boat 11 ramp area, if you are familiar that . It ' s got a 12 little playground area, restrooms , picnic shelters . 13 And it would be a nice addition to the community in 14 Goodlin, who do not have a park currently . So we 15 could accommodate their park needs as well as maybe 16 expanding our property for boat launch facilities . 17 At this particular area right here is the area 18 that we ' re talking about . It was slated for a 19 condominium. If you have been reading the paper at 20 all , it was kind of controversial at that area . 21 And access would be coming in . Right here is 22 Strands , if that helps you with your orientation, 23 and driving down through here into this particular 24 area . And again, you can see there ' s a marina on 25 this side and then there ' s a marina over here on GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 66 1 this side . 2 This is a schematic of what we think it would 3 look like . Again, these are - - we ' ve got about 4 seventy - - we could get seventy- five parking spaces 5 in here . If we want to save more green space, we 6 could do fifty parking spaces here for the park 7 itself , which would provide shelters , restroom 8 facilities , fishing area, a pathway along the area 9 here to view out over the bay itself . Again, we 10 think it would be a nice addition to that 11 particular community . And we are going to be in 12 Goodlin, if you happen to be here from Goodlin . We 13 are going to be in the Goodlin community on June 14 7th to address the community about it in person . 15 MS . RAND : Can I ask you question about the 16 plan? 17 MS . RAMSEY : Yes . 18 MS . RAND : Any of areas along the water, do 19 they have any kind of a dock or any kind of access 20 adjacent to the water, pedestrian access to the 21 fishing area ; is that like a little - - do you have 22 the ability to dock right at the water there? 23 MS . RAMSEY: Yeah . We would like to have all 24 traffic here . We would separate the boat traffic 25 from the park . GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 67 1 MS . RAND : And like a little fishing area 2 here? 3 MS . RAMSEY : That ' s kind of what we are 4 talking about . 5 MS . RAND : Right on the edge? 6 MS . RAMSEY : This has got a little bit of a 7 mangrove right in here . We also think that this 8 would be a prime location to talk to Florida 9 Community Trust for a grant that would help us with 10 the purchase of the land to counter balance the 11 cost that we ' re looking at for that location . I ' ve 12 also talked to some of the marina people in town, 13 and there ' s a possibly of maybe some donations from 14 that as well . We ' ll pursue that as well . 15 Can I get you afterwards? 16 The next one that we have, the - - if you are 17 familiar with going down 92 toward Goodlin, there 18 is a little pull off where the old bridge used to 19 be there , and currently the transportation 20 department takes care of that . It looks like it 21 would be a very nice place to do canoe/kayak 22 launching into that little bay area there - - and 23 I ' ll show you a picture in just a second - - as well 24 as providing picnic tables and parking for that 25 community . Right now we have a number of people GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 68 1 that pull off in there and have their lunches . We 2 figure , if we improve the area, we maybe could get 3 a little better compliance at that location too . 4 And, again, the estimated project time line on 5 this would be like 2003 , 2004 . And this is the 6 location I ' m talking about . This is 92 , it comes 7 down here . And then Goodlin is down in this area 8 right here . This is where the old bridge was . You 9 can see part of it is still there . Transportation 10 wants to clean up this area here , take out most of 11 this area here , and then provide this as a sand 12 launch area for canoes and kayaks and put a 13 retaining wall in here and then have picnics . And 14 all the way back into here can go to parking . So 15 we ' ve got a nice little strip of area here . And 16 then there is a little walkway underneath the 17 bridge that can access this side over here , kind of 18 like one of those little roadside park facilities . 19 Now we are going to talk a little bit about 20 beach parking, and these are the various items I 21 want to talk about tonight . First of all , we are 22 looking at Vanderbilt parking garage , 275 spaces , 23 in the year 2001 , 2002 . Barefoot Boardwalk Ferry 24 Service, we ' re looking at 2004 right there . And I 25 have an asterisk that says that on Tuesday, GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 69 1 yesterday, the Board of County Commissioners 2 reviewed that project as a petition from the public 3 to try and move that up on our five-year plan. We 4 also have Connor Park, which is eighty spaces that 5 we ' re currently building . And then Seagate parking 6 expansion, which is at the Seagate Boulevard area . 7 We have twelve spaces there that WCI Company is 8 going to be expanding that parking lot for us . And 9 I ' ll get to that in a minute . 10 So I ' ll start with the biggest one first , and 11 that ' s the Vanderbilt parking garage . And before 12 we get into the meat of this particular one , let me 13 talk about looking at these projects as all 14 interrelated projects . Each access is not just one 15 or the other . It ' s kind of an intricate chain of 16 things that we wanted to do over a period of years 17 to try and enhance access to the beaches 18 themselves . 19 The access itself , just to give you some 20 background, the county beach access that we have 21 there currently is about 51 , 000 square feet . 22 National Parks and Recreation guidelines for square 23 footage on a beach area is fifty square feet per 24 user . Using that ratio, we come up with 1 , 020 25 users right at the end of our cul-de-sac area at GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 70 1 Vanderbilt . The Vanderbilt Beach provides access 2 to 3 . 7 miles . And, yes , we don' t expect people to 3 use all 3 . 7 miles , but if you ' re a runner or a 4 jogger or something like that , that access is very 5 nice . It takes you all the way down to Clam Pass 6 and takes you all the way up to the state park . 7 That 3 . 7 miles does not include Wiggins State Park 8 in that mileage calculation . 9 Currently we did an actual body count at 10 Vanderbilt parking lot , which has 125 parking 11 spaces currently, and 25 along the road and with 12 handicapped, which is 152 parking spaces at that 13 location . The current lot is accommodating 255 14 people when the lot is full , up to 300 . And where 15 I get that is that the count that we did at 16 Vanderbilt over Easter weekend was 2 . 03 people per 17 car . And that ' s one thing I want to discuss a 18 little bit about in the minute , too . 2 . 03 people 19 per car . We use a standard in Parks and Recreation 20 at 2 . 4 per car . So it was actually lower at that 21 location per car than we normally use . That ' s why 22 you get a range of 2 . 5 , 255 versus 300 people when 23 the lot is full . A lot - - a typical beach lot will 24 turn over three times during the day . Which means 25 we ' re somewhere around 900 to 1 , 000 people at that GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 71 1 location . The proposed parking garage would add 2 275 spaces at that location . 3 One of the things that we find is that people 4 know that, if they wait , that we turn over that lot 5 quite often . And if they wait and drive around and 6 around and around, sooner or later they are going 7 to be able to pull into the parking lot . So we 8 think, by adding parking spaces to try and pull the 9 people off the roads and get them into a parking 10 spot , it will actually reduce the amount of traffic 11 at the cul-de- sac area . The proposed time line on 12 this is 2001 , 2002 . And I ' m going to talk a little 13 bit about this a little bit later, about providing 14 parking for future shuttles into the Vanderbilt 15 Beach access points , because we think it ' s going to 16 be an anchor that will flow into Vanderbilt to use 17 the access points to move people down the beach . 18 I had a point I wanted to make here . It will 19 come to me . 20 This is the way that we propose that it would 21 look as far as any site plan . As you see there, we 22 have existing buffers here of mangroves around the 23 area itself . This parking garage would be very 24 similar to the Ritz Carlton garage that ' s sitting 25 there currently . It ' s basically called a GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 72 1 three- story but that ' s three stories including the 2 ground floor, so it ' s two floors up off of that . 3 Joe , do you know what the height is that gets 4 to be ; do you have any idea? 5 MR . DELATE : Twenty feet . 6 MS . RAMSEY : Twenty feet off the ground, more 7 or less? 8 MR . DELATE : Well , people come on the ceiling . 9 MS . RAMSEY : We ' ll get to that . 10 MR . DELATE : Twenty feet plus a paraffin wall , 11 so it ' s probably twenty-three or twenty-four feet . 12 MS . RAMSEY : This little thing right here is a 13 concourse that goes from the parking garage over 14 into the beach area, which is located right in 15 here . You will still have that access around the 16 outside , if you wish to do so . As you can see , we 17 still have a little bit of space left here by 18 putting in the 400 parking spaces . 19 This is a picture of the Ritz Carlton parking 20 garage . And we sent this picture down to the firm 21 that we ' ve been talking with giving us this 22 estimate and they are - - the 3 . 8 million that they 23 quoted us came off this exact design, just to give 24 you an idea of the looks of that . 25 The funding source that we ' re looking at for GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 73 1 that is actually coming from TDC, the Tourist 2 Development Council tax. 3 We ' re going move into Barefoot Beach Boardwalk 4 Ferry Service . Again, yesterday I was before the 5 Board talking to them about the boardwalk into the 6 Back Bay, up to a thousand linear feet into the 7 Back Bay . Right off , our existing restroom 8 facilities provides ferry service by a concession 9 agreement from one , two, or three people . It 10 depends on what we work out with them. Also , to 11 provide interpretive programs into the Back Bay and 12 along the mangrove area as educational . The 13 proposed time line , I have two in here , I have 14 2004 , which is what we have on our, list but it 15 could be moved up to 2001 , depending on the budget 16 process as we go through it . The funding source is 17 the impact fees . And we had the public come 18 forward and commit approximately $100 , 000 toward 19 this particular project . 20 This is our - - this is Barefoot Beach . This 21 is our existing restroom facility right here . What 22 we are talking about is taking the boardwalk out 23 here and along this mangrove area right in here so 24 that the boats could access at this point . And 25 I ' ve got another look at it here . Again, GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 74 1 concession area here , going out into the Back Bay . 2 This is about 300 linear feet , and then however far 3 we have to go along this mangrove area to get to 4 the right depth for the boat access . 5 And this is a schematic for you . Just shows 6 you, currently at Cocohatchee we have a 7 concessionaire who can make that trip up through 8 here . It would be about thirty minutes , I believe , 9 by boat . We ' ve looked at that as being a tourist 10 kind of thing, mostly geared toward interpretive on 11 the way up and back, so we can educate people while 12 they are riding on the boat itself as well as 13 residential , resident people as well using this 14 facility . 15 Before I move on to that , we are also trying 16 to secure some additional land across the road from 17 that Cocohatchee River Park to assist in the 18 parking lot situation to make sure that we have 19 enough parking for the cars . So again, things have 20 to go hand in hand in order for projects to be able 21 to be released, and parking would be examined on 22 the other side of that . 23 Barefoot Beach parking lot expansion . If you 24 are familiar with Barefoot Beach, we have the 25 parking lot , a green space and parking lots . We GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 75 1 could add seventy-five additional parking spaces 2 and join those two lots . May need to make some 3 improvements to the restroom facilities to 4 accommodate additional people at that location . 5 Proposed time line is 2003 . 6 And here is a little schematic of this as our 7 Parking Lot Number 1 . Parking Lot Number 2 , we 8 were just looking at it to try and connect those 9 parking spaces , a boardwalk . 10 Right now we are constructing Connor Park, 11 which is a five-acre linear park off of Louisville 12 Avenue . It ' s got eighty parking spaces planned at 13 that location with walking access to Wiggins State 14 Park . The developer adjacent to us in their PUD is 15 responsible for making improvements on the bridge 16 area . I saw the plans last week, Thursday, Friday, 17 and it calls for improvements to have sidewalks on 18 both sides of the bridge , bike paths on both sides 19 of the bridge, and two lanes of traffic in the 20 middle . The completion date we are looking at is 21 about 12 of 2000 , this year . And, again, that 22 funding source is TDC . 23 Seagate parking lot , which I mentioned before, 24 WCI has asked us to take over our existing parking 25 lot so they can expand a building they have there . GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 76 1 In exchange they are going to build us a new 2 parking lot . And when they are done with their 3 enhancements at the end, they are going to take 4 their staging area and turn it into twelve 5 additional parking spaces for us at that location . 6 They think they will be done with the additional 7 lot spaces in 2002 . We ' ll have no downtime at all 8 at this location . They will build a new parking 9 lot before they take the old one away . And I ' ll 10 show you - - do I have an access point? I guess I 11 don ' t have access for that . 12 That particular location, if you are not 13 familiar with it , if you are going towards Clam 14 Pass , which is to The Registry, off to the left , 15 you take the road off to the left , and it kind of 16 looks like it ends in a condominium association 17 down there . And we actually have a public access 18 to the beach there with twenty-five parking spaces 19 currently . That ' s kind of a hidden secret that a 20 lot of people don ' t know about . 21 Future plans , we ' re looking at a parking 22 garage probably at Clam Pass . Time line , outside 23 of my five-year, that ' s why I don ' t have a lot of 24 information about it , but it ' s probably 2005 or 25 2007 . GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 77 1 Now, future services is the one I want to kind 2 of dwell on for a couple minutes . Again, we have 3 three access points on Gulf Shore Boulevard North 4 that are public access currently that are really 5 only accessible by bikers or walkers where they can 6 walk through it and get to the beach area . We ' re 7 looking at using the parking areas that we have at 8 both ends , the parking garage with the 400 spaces 9 and the 80 spaces over at Bluebill , going down and 10 dropping off at of those various locations , after 11 we ' ve made improvements to these locations . Of 12 course , we would have to enhance them, maybe add a 13 little tasteful bench area with little covered bus 14 stops , so to speak, look to it . And once we have 15 provided enough - - we feel comfortable with the 16 quality of service that we ' re providing with the 17 shuttle - - because honestly we ' re not going into 18 the transportation business , and that ' s kind of 19 where we ' d be going on this shuttle . And once we 20 felt comfortable with the quality that we ' re doing 21 there , then we can look at off-site locations and 22 add shuttle service, not only to Vanderbilt , but 23 maybe into Barefoot , once we feel comfortable with 24 how that whole thing works . So, again, it ' s a full 25 plan, looking at it , and it ' s a long - - kind of a GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 78 1 long way out . You know, I don ' t have a time frame 2 specifically on this here . We could possibly 3 accelerate it as soon as the parking garage is 4 available to us at that location . And we have made 5 improvements to those accesses at Gulf Shore 6 Boulevard North. 7 That kind of ends my presentation . And I 8 guess I ' m going to turn it over now to PRAB . If 9 you would like to come back up to your seats and 10 ask me specific questions , I can go back through 11 and answer some things in detail , now that you ' ve 12 got the whole favor of what the report is all 13 about? If I could have you come up, and then I ' m 14 going to let John take over at that point . 15 CHAIRMAN GRICE : We have nothing in our agenda 16 about this , so I can close that . 17 MR . WALTERS : No . I was making adjustments . 18 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Anybody have any additional 19 questions on any of those? 20 MR . OLESKY : Not at this time , I don' t . I 21 think everything looked pretty spicy to me . I 22 think it looks good . It looks like a good go . 23 CHAIRMAN GRICE : The only comment I have is 24 that , if I ' m mistaken, the road you ' re talking 25 about is Gulf Shore Drive? GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 79 1 MS . RAMSEY : Gulf Shore Boulevard North . 2 CHAIRMAN GRICE : No . Gulf Shore Drive . 3 MS . RAMSEY : I ' m sorry . Yes . Did I have the 4 wrong street name? I apologize, Gulf Shore . 5 CHAIRMAN GRICE : I know a lot of people don ' t 6 realize that there ' s two different streets because 7 they are basically in the same place . I didn ' t 8 have any other questions , other than, what I ' ve 9 already asked on any of the - - any of your 10 presentation . 11 I did have - - was concerned about one thing, 12 but it must not have been a big one because I can ' t 13 remember . 14 Anybody else? 15 MS . RAND : The concessionaire that ' s going to 16 do the ferry, have you got a contract that can 17 limit how much they can charge for that? Will that 18 be a part of the - - 19 MS . RAMSEY: What we will do with that is 20 actually we would put that out for bid and we would 21 allow them to come in, like we do with any 22 concession agreement , and give us their best price , 23 and we would work with them. And then, once we 24 found something that we like , if there were two or 25 three people , we would try to make them consistent GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 80 1 with one another and try to open it out . 2 MS . RAND : What I meant was the fare . 3 MS . RAMSEY : Right . The gentleman that I have 4 been talking to currently, who is with the 5 Cocohatchee Nature Center, which is right across 6 from the Pewter Mug, he has been talking about 7 possibly a 6 . 50 price to take them up, do the 8 interpretive along the way, and bring them back. 9 It ' s a round-trip price . What he has been talking 10 about currently is 6 . 50 to do that . 11 MS . RAND : So you might have two different 12 people using the same facility to do two different 13 things? 14 MS . RAMSEY : Yeah . One of the things on top 15 of that is that right now Topper and Culmen 16 (phonetic) and some of the other locations are 17 already faring their people to the tip at the pass 18 at Barefoot and they are already dropping them on 19 the beach area there and going through the preserve 20 area up the beach . Now there are no facilities at 21 that location . So we already know there is ferry 22 service happening . And maybe what we can do is 23 kind of push the ferry service towards one location 24 or maybe we have to make enhancements to the tip . 25 I don' t know . But our goal is to try to GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 81 1 concentrate people in certain locations rather than 2 all the way through the end of the preserve area 3 itself . Again, the preserve area is owned by the 4 state and managed by Collier County . The whole 5 south side of that , we have about , I think, 156 6 acres that we own there which is where all of the 7 activity is being held, and the preserve area 8 itself is very natural , with gopher tortoises , et 9 cetera, nature trails in that location . We ' re 10 trying to enhance and preserve the integrity of 11 that location as part of our management plan . 12 MR . OLESKY : Are you going to try to use 13 electric engines on these ferries rather than gas? 14 MS . RAMSEY : I have not gotten into that much 15 detail , but I ' m not sure . I don ' t know enough 16 about coding to say yes or no . I ' m sure it ' s 17 something we can look into . 18 CHAIRMAN GRICE : I remember the question, my 19 concern, now . It was the fact that you even stated 20 a little later in another different presentation 21 about getting into ferry service . What is the 22 purpose of the dock and the ferry service that 23 you ' re talking about in the first place? What - - 24 MS . RAMSEY : Into Barefoot? 25 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Yes . GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 82 1 MS . RAMSEY : Well , part of the concern that 2 we ' ve been hearing is that it ' s a long ways to 3 drive, Barefoot , because you ' ve got to go all the 4 way up to Bonita, come down Lely/Barefoot Boulevard 5 down into the park . It ' s a long trek up . And they 6 were thinking that they could do something that 7 would shorten that trek right from the north side 8 of Collier County right into the park, that we 9 might be able to enhance the usage of that 10 location, especially in the county-owned portion of 11 it , which is more recreation in nature . And that 12 way we can pull some people that maybe would 13 normally go to Vanderbilt up to Barefoot . 14 MS . RAND : The parking right now would have to 15 be at Cocohatchee, unless you can arrange 16 additional parking? 17 MS . RAMSEY : Right . And currently we ' re 18 working with two different plans right now, 19 possibly getting additional parking located real 20 close to the Cocohatchee River Park right now . 21 Whether we get into either one of those, I don ' t 22 know . That ' s just something that we ' re working on 23 currently . 24 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Okay . Anybody else have any 25 questions? GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 83 Iou want to open it up? E : We ' ll open it up now to gistered to speak for five have nine registered speakers . Le and you can come up to the raker we have is Lou Newman and ?wman . I think we both got our answers . 3o then the next speaker then L . And after Pat is Carol Timbus . You may have to pull that a right into it . Zan you hear me? I can . The questions that I have to ask according to your presentation it I believe , and 75 spaces . I read paper where it said something Okay . Clarification on that . ial parking spaces . We have 125 24 parking spaces at that location currently . 25 MS . LUCCI : Okay . My question also is , if you GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 84 1 have 275 , or easily around over 400 , figuring - - 2 I ' m just figuring, with two people coming, that ' s 3 over - - going to be close to 900 people that would 4 be utilizing the beach . And, I mean, quite 5 frankly, I have been to the beach during the height 6 of the season and there ' s very little space on the 7 beach to accommodate even the amount of parking 8 spaces that you already have . 9 MS . RAMSEY : One way I can address that real 10 quick for you is that , according to the statistics 11 that NRPA puts out , National Recreation and Parks 12 Association, the fifty square foot per user, using 13 the 51 , 000 square foot we have just at the access , 14 from the access point down to the Ritz Carlton, 15 using that area right there, according to the 16 statistics , will accommodate 1 , 020 people . And I 17 understand that 933 , I think, is what - - parking 18 spaces will be anywhere from 800 to 960 people , 19 when it ' s 400 . All right? If you use those 20 numbers , the statistics show that yes , you can 21 accommodate them just in the access . Now, 22 there ' s - - that doesn' t take into account anything 23 going to the north . And what we ' ve seen from the 24 statistics that I have been able to gather is that 25 people will walk about a quarter of a mile , which GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 85 1 is 1 , 300 linear feet . And currently what I ' m 2 talking about - - we ' re talking about 600 linear 3 feet in that space that I was talking about before , 4 from the access to the Ritz Carlton . If you take 5 the center of the access and go 1 , 300 linear feet 6 in either direction, it disperses that way, there 7 is a lot more space on the beach . 8 Now, you and I both know that they are going 9 to go to the next available spot , and that - - but 10 that they would probably continue to go to the next 11 available spot out to about 1 , 300 linear feet , out 12 to the access itself . So that ' s the - - those are 13 raw data statistics , not taking into account 14 anything that has to do with the quality of 15 experience once they are there . That ' s raw data 16 coming at you . And then the other side of that , 17 again, is , of course , if you go shuttling at some 18 point down the line . And, using that , you would 19 take some of those up to the access points and drop 20 them off . So we have a better experience at the 21 access itself . 22 MS . LUCCI : I would agree with that . 23 The other thing was , the park that you ' re 24 building at Conner, you ' ve got eighty cars? 25 MS . RAMSEY : Correct . GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 86 1 MS . LUCCI : And you had mentioned about it ' s 2 going to be a while before a shuttle would be 3 provided? 4 MS . RAMSEY : Yes . 5 MS . LUCCI : Because I ' ve walked that , up over 6 the bridge , not carrying a thing, and that is a 7 long walk. 8 MS . RAMSEY : I agree that at some point in 9 time we are going to have to shuttle with that . We 10 do have it in the initial plans . For eighty 11 parking spaces and to provide shuttle service, it 12 was not feasible at the moment to do shuttling . 13 Now, if we worked something from both ends - - and 14 I ' m going to two directions - - then it becomes more 15 cost efficient . And, remember, every time I do a 16 shuttle, that goes as an ad valorem tax to the 17 public itself . So there is an annual cost 18 associated with that particular activity . So when 19 we do it , we want - - and we also want to make sure 20 that , when we do it , that we do it with quality and 21 that we have a place they can drop or, if there is 22 a lightening storm that comes on the beach, I can 23 get them back off the beach in a timely manner . So 24 we want to make sure that the quality experience is 25 there because otherwise they won ' t park at those GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 87 1 locations , they will continue to try and drive 2 around until they can find a space closer . 3 MS . LUCCI : My third and last question, that 4 would be - - it just went right out of my mind . I ' m 5 sorry . I can ' t remember what it was . 6 I know what it was . It was - - I was going to 7 ask, will there be any particular parking areas for 8 county residents because - - believe me , when the 9 tourist season begins , I ' ve had the experience of 10 not being able to find a parking spot . 11 MS . RAMSEY : You know, that ' s one of the 12 things that we have concerns about because we live 13 in a society that is very non-public transportation 14 or carpool . And what we ' re finding is that our 15 numbers in our parks per car are going down . And 16 what that means is that families are driving two 17 cars to the same location . And so I think that ' s 18 something we need to address . 19 Now, maybe we address that , you know, 20 through - - I know I ' m not answering your question 21 100 percent . Just wait a second . Maybe we could 22 address that , something like only allowing one 23 beach parking sticker per residence and that way 24 that one car will come down and carry most of the 25 family with it . And if they decide that they want GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 88 1 to come in two, that the second one would have to 2 pay the parking fee to do that . Maybe that will 3 help us loosen up some of the parking problems that 4 we ' re having currently as well . 5 Now, can we designate resident parking only? 6 I don ' t understand why we couldn ' t . 7 MS . LUCCI : It certainly would be a help, 8 especially during the height of the season . Thank 9 you . 10 MR . SMITH : The next speaker is Carol Timbus 11 and then Eric Synne on deck . 12 MS . TIMBUS : I just wanted to ask a few 13 questions . We weren ' t sure about which parking 14 lot . Are you talking about going and being joined 15 to the next one? Is that the one next to the 16 learning center in the Pavilion now, with the next 17 lot? Which is - - I think you changed the numbers 18 on those . 19 MS . RAMSEY : My numbers were 1 and 2 , but - - 20 MS . TIMBUS : 1 and 2 , okay . That ' s 21 interesting . That ' s a good place for it . That ' s 22 what we say, if it has to be . 23 We are concerned about a few other things in 24 the preserve . I don ' t know if you ' re thinking 25 about addressing any of these or not , but one of GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 89 1 the things is the trail , which we - - you did have 2 people come in and remove the exotics , cut them 3 down, I should say . But they left all the debris 4 in the - - along the trail, and some on the trail 5 and places . It ' s like waiting for a fire . If 6 anybody ever throws a cigarette down or anything 7 back there , the whole end of the island will be 8 burned down, I can assure you . We hope that you 9 may address that and figure out some way to get 10 somebody in there to take that out . 11 The other thing is one of the other things is 12 the gamma derma which is affecting the palm trees , 13 and that has been started, but it needs to be 14 finished . We still have quite a few trees that 15 have the gamma derma, and this is going to be 16 spread and possibly eventually infect the whole end 17 of the island with palms . 18 The third thing are the gopher tortoises . And 19 we are definitely trying to protect those . We 20 think we have about 150 to 180 at that end of the 21 island now . And so any building or whatever 22 hatches , we ' re trying to disturb as few of those as 23 possible , which is going to help where you ' re 24 putting the parking lot there . That will 25 facilitate that , because there are fewer there than GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 90 1 there are down at the other end . 2 I can ' t think of anything else right now 3 except that , are you going to - - you said you would 4 increase the restroom facilities , and are you 5 bringing in concessions , did you say, or - - 6 MS . RAMSEY : We will have to look at that . As 7 soon as the usage gets high enough at that 8 particular location to warrant concessions , we 9 definitely will bring them back . 10 MS . TIMBUS : That is one thing . We had other 11 people come in and complain to us . They think 12 there is a concession because there was one out 13 there before and they are very unhappy when they 14 find out that they have to go all the way out to 15 find some food for their family . That would be one 16 thing we would like to have addressed, too . And I 17 think that ' s it , unless somebody has a question . 18 Thank you . 19 MR . SMITH : The next speaker is Eric Synne . 20 MS . SYNNE : Erica . 21 MR . SMITH : The next speaker is - - I think 22 it ' s Hank Fay . 23 MS . SYNNE : I have a couple of questions about 24 the parking garage , and - - on Vanderbilt Beach . 25 And when you say that you have this statistic , 50 GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 91 1 square feet per person usage , that ' s seven feet by 2 seven feet , which is not very much space . If you 3 think about seven feet by seven feet around you, 4 that ' s how much space that statistic is allowing 5 you . Is that a law that we have to supply this 6 much access? I mean, who set that standard? 7 MS . RAMSEY : That ' s a National Recreation and 8 Park Association, open green space . It ' s from the 9 open space and greenway guidelines nationally . 10 MS . SYNNE : Okay . But, for example , could we 11 decide that we wanted to preserve a lower density 12 on our beaches? 13 MS . RAMSEY : Yes . I believe that we possibly 14 can do that . Again, remember that the parking 15 garage - - I ' m building for the future when we are 16 talking about the parking garage , and we want to 17 move shuttles down into the other access areas , 18 which is - - a lot of the public has been telling me 19 that they want to do . Then I have to have a 20 parking place for them. And if I put them in a 21 parking garage and shuttle them from there , I think 22 the quality of the access will be enhanced by doing 23 that . 24 MS . SYNNE : Okay . My point is , can we, 25 Collier County Parks and Recreation, make a GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 92 1 decision for at least some beach areas to have a 2 higher quality or more space per person that they 3 are going to be providing facilities and 4 transportation for? 5 MS . RAMSEY : Yes . We actually do that in the 6 preserve areas . We have a higher standard in the 7 preserve area than we have in the recreation area 8 at Barefoot . So we have two standards at that 9 particular location . 10 MS . SYNNE : Which location? 11 MS . RAMSEY: Barefoot Beach . 12 MS . SYNNE : I ' m talking about Vanderbilt 13 Beach . 14 MS . RAMSEY : No . You asked if we do that in 15 Parks and Rec, and I ' m saying we ' re already doing 16 that . 17 MS . SYNNE : Can you do it at Vanderbilt Beach? 18 MS . RAMSEY : I don ' t know why not . 19 MS . SYNNE : Will you take that into 20 consideration, please, when you ' re making your 21 plans? 22 MS . RAMSEY : I can do that . 23 MS . SYNNE : Thank you . You had said that 24 there were 2 . 03 people per car . And that was a 25 recent survey . Is that - - GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 93 1 MS . RAMSEY : Easter weekend . 2 MS . SYNNE : Okay . Did you try anything during 3 the season? 4 MS . RAMSEY : Well - - 5 MS . SYNNE : Easter is busy, but it ' s not high 6 season . 7 MS . RAMSEY : We actually did that on Easter 8 weekend on purpose , to make sure we had the most 9 current holiday weekend that we could get to . 10 MS . SYNNE : When you say that you think that 11 the traffic will be decreased in the area of 12 Vanderbilt Beach Road, do you have any traffic 13 studies to show that? I mean - - 14 MS . RAMSEY : Not currently . As far as talking 15 about transportation, we would - - we don ' t have any 16 data or statistically at the moment that tells us 17 that . 18 MS . SYNNE : And one concern of the people that 19 I ' ve talked to is that having the garage there will 20 actually increase the number of cars on Vanderbilt 21 Beach Road, causing more traffic congestion, and 22 that is a constrained two- lane road . 23 MS . RAMSEY : We ' re not sure if it ' s going to 24 increase the traffic there or if it ' s going to 25 allow traffic to get in off the road sooner, GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 94 1 because we don ' t know how many people are actually 2 driving around that entire congested area waiting 3 to get into a parking lot itself . Maybe what we 4 need to do is do a little survey on a full lot 5 weekend and do a little - - talk to the people that 6 are coming in and out , how long did you wait to get 7 a parking space, how many times did you drive 8 around, where did you drive around? That kind of 9 information might help us a little bit with 10 it . 11 MS . SYNNE : I think that getting that traffic 12 study done before you spend the three million 13 dollars or whatever it is to build something and 14 then just to have massive traffic jams along 15 Vanderbilt Beach wouldn' t be so good . 16 I guess I would also put my two bits in for 17 something for local residents parking . They are 18 the ones that are going to bear the extra traffic 19 and the extra so forth, and it would be nice if 20 local residents could get a parking place without 21 having to be there at the crack of dawn . 22 Finally, have you consulted with Dovin Cole 23 (phonetic) at all about any of these? 24 MS . RAMSEY : Yes . We have had conversations , 25 in-depth conversations , and I know that their study GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 95 1 will be coming out in February . 2 MS . SYNNE : Have you talked to them about the 3 Vanderbilt Beach parking garage? 4 MS . RAMSEY : Yes , I have . 5 MS . SYNNE : What did they say? 6 MS . RAMSEY : They are going to put it into 7 their study and look at it . 8 MS . SYNNE : Thank you . 9 MR . SMITH : The next speaker is Hank Fay, with 10 Bobbe Hickman on deck . 11 MR . FAY : Thanks . Yes , I guess I would like 12 to make a pitch for not using the Jones Beach 13 standard of available space on our beaches here . I 14 don ' t know if any of you have had the pleasure of 15 being on Jones Beach, and basically you look for a 16 place that ' s big enough to put your beach towel and 17 step over people . Same way in on Cape Cod . They 18 probably all follow the standard, but the standard 19 isn ' t - - doesn ' t really work, not in a way that any 20 of us would enjoy. 21 But at the same time, I ' ve very pleased to 22 hear that you ' re going to do something about the 23 beach access points of Gulf Shore, whatever it is . 24 The - - I didn' t even know that they were there . 25 And I ' ve rollerbladed there, jogged there , ridden GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 96 1 my bike there . I didn ' t even know that there are 2 three . Where are they? 3 MS . RAMSEY : They are opposite of the roadway, 4 and I think I have a plan up here that I can show 5 it to you when we ' re done that actually shows the 6 access areas . They are 10 -foot wide and they are 7 opposite of the roads that are going in toward the 8 bay area . 9 MR . FAY : They must be carefully hidden . Do 10 they belong to you? 11 MS . RAMSEY : They are Collier County 12 easements , yes . 13 MR . FAY : You could get a lot of bang for your 14 buck by just marking them and putting some shells 15 down where people could walk to the beach . 16 MS . RAMSEY : That ' s part of the thing that we 17 talked about , is trying to enhance those accesses 18 so even the walkers and bikers can use them. 19 MR . FAY : Making them even usable . I mean, 20 they are invisible now, and probably because the 21 people who live on either side want them to be 22 invisible . 23 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER : You got that right . 24 MR . FAY : Secondly, I don ' t think you can plan 25 a parking garage by yourself without the GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 97 1 transportation department , without the community 2 development folks . And it sounds like that ' s sort 3 of what ' s happened, though . 4 MS . RAMSEY : I would think that - - how this 5 really comes about is , I ' m trying to secure funds 6 to do a parking garage , and what the parking garage 7 really looks like is , when I come out to all of the 8 communities and say, here ' s what so-and- so said, 9 here ' s what the parking garage looks like , okay, 10 let ' s talk about the number of parking spaces , and 11 that all comes once I ' ve got some funds . If I have 12 no funds supporting me - - that ' s part of the 13 concern that we have , is I want to make sure we get 14 the funding for them, because if I get I don ' t get 15 the development funds , I can ' t do it for awhile . 16 MR . FAY : That , I understand . I also 17 understand that , once the funds are there, there 18 will be a tremendous pressure to spend them on it . 19 And then the question of whether there should be 20 one there will be mute , will be totally gone by 21 then . On - - was it Monday night? I heard Tom 22 011iff speak just to the association . And he said, 23 we ' re going to put in shuttles because we don ' t 24 want to have more traffic down near the beach . And 25 that is a policy constrained two-lane road across GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 98 1 from Beachwalk . And putting more cars down there 2 is going to make it a lot worse, I think . And I 3 think that the input of the traffic department , 4 community development and the Dover Cole ought to 5 be there before a decision is made to make - - to do 6 the garage , because it may be that you ' ll get 3 . 1 7 million in funding, but the conclusion is , no, 8 there shouldn ' t be a garage, what there should be 9 are two big parking lots over near the trail with a 10 shuttle . And that may be a lot better solution for 11 a lot more people . And if you do have those three 12 access points actually working, you are going to 13 open up most of the beach . 14 I guess the other thing I would suggest for 15 everyone to look at is , are those three enough or 16 should the county take another ten feet and make 17 some more access points to open - - to truly open up 18 that entire beach? And I think that that would be 19 a great improvement . And then your parking lots 20 are going to be totally useless , a parking garage 21 is going to be relatively useless as being too 22 small . So then you ' re really going to need the 23 parking lot . So I agree with you, it has to be 24 part of a total package . But I don ' t think the 25 parking garage should be the first step . I think GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 99 1 it should be the result of an entire study with 2 these other departments all working together . 3 Thanks . 4 MR . SMITH : The next speaker is Bobbe Hickman 5 and Dick Lydon on deck . 6 MS . HICKMAN : I just wondered, is there a 7 difference between the space allowed per person at 8 the preserve or a county park? 9 MS . RAMSEY : Yes , there is . Our management 10 plan at Barefoot , I believe - - I don ' t have that 11 statistic in front of me , but it ' s much less dense 12 at the preserve area than it is even at the 13 northern side of that . We kind of take the whole 14 area and use a low density on it . But we 15 concentrate most of them on the north side . 16 MS . HICKMAN : And also there is a lower 17 parking lot in the preserve that has never been 18 filled . Is there really a need for this new 19 parking lot to take more of the natural look of the 20 park away? 21 MS . RAMSEY : And, again, I think that it ' s 22 down the road, but it is an option for us and it is 23 in the management plan that we can do that as 24 needed . 25 MS . HICKMAN : It just seems a shame to keep GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 100 1 opening up along the road there . You are taking 2 away all what - - because it basically is a 3 preserve . And even the beach is supposedly called 4 a preserve . And we just wondered if it has to be 5 done . It just seems so natural there . And that ' s 6 one of our purposes , was to keep it natural . And 7 how many parking places are there now with three 8 parking lots? 9 MS . RAMSEY : 256 , I believe . 10 MS . HICKMAN : That ' s along the road too? 11 MS . RAMSEY : I don' t believe - - I ' m not sure . 12 I don ' t know if that ' s along the road . No . That ' s 13 overflow parking, I believe . 14 MS . HICKMAN : So it seems like it ' s not 15 necessary to open up another parking lot when it ' s 16 never full as it is . The reason it ' s full right by 17 the restrooms naturally is because the restrooms 18 are there . But people don ' t want to walk . It 19 seems a shame . We keep taking away the natural 20 part of that and losing the purpose of the whole 21 thing . Thank you . 22 MR . SMITH : Next speaker is Dick Lydon and 23 Vera Fitzgerald is on deck . 24 MR . LYDON : Thank you for permitting us to say 25 a few words . It will take me a lot longer than GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 101 1 five minutes , but let me see if I can hit a few 2 highlights . 3 First of all , let me share my understanding as 4 it relates to beach access . There was another 5 interesting letter to the editor the other day . We 6 were being accused of protecting the beach from all 7 the outsiders . I wanted to point out that I took 8 about two years of head - - beating me over the head 9 to get those eighty parking spots on the north side 10 of the area . We were responsible for getting the 11 facilities , the bathroom facilities down by the 12 parking lot on the south end . We were responsible 13 for getting the upgrading of the turnaround down 14 there . We ' re not trying to keep people off of our 15 beach . I want that carefully understood . 16 Now, let ' s kind of take a look at these 17 things . First of all , the parking garage . I love 18 you, Marla, and you always get the money before you 19 talk to anybody . That ' s the secret , see . Because , 20 if you talk to somebody, they might have a 21 different idea . Besides , there ' s only about eight 22 million dollars coming into that TDC fund every 23 year, and you are looking at a guy who spent a lot 24 of his time and effort in keeping that eight 25 million coming in, because we almost lost one-third GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 102 1 of it not too long ago . 2 That parking garage at 3 . 8 million compares to 3 the Ritz , as you said. The Ritz spent about a 4 million and a half . There must be some reason why 5 they can build it so much cheaper than we can . 6 The number of people that you ' re projecting, 7 1 , 021 , I believe , as coming out of that garage , 8 what about those folks that walk? We have a whole 9 area called Beachwalk. We have Naples Park. We 10 have a lot of people that walk to the beach . And 11 where do they go? You got 1 , 021 of them that are 12 south of the entrance, and then you got another 13 2 , 000 that are up almost to La Playa before they 14 can find a place to put their blanket . 15 Secondly, I think it ' s a great idea to put in 16 that boardwalk across - - I think you may have a 17 little trouble getting $6 . 50 . But , again, it ' s a 18 tourist attraction and it might very well go well . 19 It certainly gets them to a beach that has room to 20 put the people . 21 The other question I would have is on the 22 Barefoot Beach . One of the problems we have up 23 there, you know, is there ain' t nobody from Collier 24 County can get on there because all of the Lee 25 County people are there, because the one up there GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 103 1 on the north side of Bonita Beach Road is so - - 2 they got more blankets than they got people up 3 there, or people than they got blankets , so they 4 all come down into our park . Our problem is trying 5 to expand that one . And if we are a going to build 6 a 3 . 8 million parking garage , let ' s look at 7 Barefoot . The problem has been that you can ' t get 8 people to go to Barefoot . They all want to come to 9 Vanderbilt . If there ' s no place to park at 10 Vanderbilt , odds are they might go to Barefoot . 11 Let ' s think about some of that . 12 The other thing that I was looking at here on 13 the shuttle . If you want to get - - you start 14 running shuttle buses up and down Gulf Shore 15 Drive - - I don ' t know whether any of you were at 16 the meeting yesterday, but there was a whole bunch 17 of folks over there yelling and screaming at the 18 Commission meeting yesterday because the -La Playa 19 is going to go private and they are trying to sell 20 a thousand memberships . And, good God, look at all 21 the traffic that ' s going to create . 22 And, Marla, before you start using those three 23 parking - - those beach accesses up there , you 24 better talk to the folks that live across the 25 street , because those three that you ' re talking GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 104 1 about are deeded access in writing . We ' ve been 2 into this . They belong to the people up in those 3 places . They are not public access , according to 4 the existing deeds . There are two that are south 5 of the La Playa that are in fact public . And, 6 again, as he said, nobody can find them. All this 7 sounds great . 8 What we haven ' t gotten into is any numbers 9 except that 3 . 8 , which scared me to death when I 10 first saw it . 11 But numbers become important . That TDC money 12 is a cash count . And the problems that we have 13 had, and you ' ve heard me make this statement , 14 perhaps when I was talking about the penny, the 15 damn cow has built another udder . And everybody 16 wants to get to the udders . We ' ve got beach 17 renourishment . We ' ve got passes . We ' ve got all of 18 these things . And the minute they open that up to 19 Parks and Rec , hey, there ' s Marla, was in there . 20 God love you . If I had been in your spot , I would 21 have done the same thing . 22 All we would ask at Vanderbilt is to sit down, 23 talk to us , let us take a look, we might honestly 24 have an honest and reasonable idea . Thank you . 25 MR . SMITH : Vera Fitzgerald is the last GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 105 1 speaker I have registered . 2 MS . FITZGERALD : You made the statement , or 3 one of you made the statement that building this 4 garage was going to reduce the turnaround . I beg 5 to differ with you . It ' s going to increase them, 6 because what ' s going to happen is that everyone is 7 going to drive up to the beach . They have a 8 parking spot over there, they are going to drive up 9 to the turnaround and they are going to drop their 10 family off with all of the stuff that they always 11 have . They are not going to carry their coolers 12 and their umbrellas and their chairs and 13 everything . They are going to drive around the 14 turnaround . They are going to drop the people off . 15 Then they are going to come back and pick them all 16 up . Dad goes off to the parking garage , and then 17 he walks over and joins them. That ' s how it works 18 now and that ' s how it ' s going to work in the 19 future . It ' s going to increase the parking . 20 I think the parking garage at the Ritz Carlton 21 is just plain God awful . Parking garages are in 22 general God awful . If you want to know what God 23 awful is , go down Goodlette Road, have a look at 24 that parking garage on the east side , just before 25 you get to Airport Road on that new development . GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 106 1 That ' s a parking garage . It ' s just - - the idea is 2 horrible . 3 And it ' s interesting that Seagate gets twelve 4 more parking spots , but they fancy throwing 275 at 5 us in Vanderbilt Beach Road. I would hate to see 6 them cut down the green space at Barefoot to add 7 more , but one of the reasons - - as we all know, 8 what the problem is at Barefoot Beach was that 9 there ' s been such an effort to keep people out that 10 that ' s why they haven' t gone . Maybe if it was 11 better signed, people would know it was there . Get 12 a great big sign up or something . 13 And we ' re going to build this garage for three 14 months a year usage? I live here usually 15 year-round, and I never had a problem going to the 16 beach . Mind you, I don ' t go to the beach during 17 the height of the day either, but it seems that 18 it ' s crowded during the season and it just seems 19 crazy . But if you are saying you are going to have 20 400 spots in this parking garage and it ' s going to 21 roll over about three times a day because people go 22 for so many hours , so that ' s 1 , 200 vehicles . And 23 they are going to go down and then they are going 24 to go back . That ' s 2 , 400 vehicle trips per day 25 minimum thrown onto Vanderbilt Beach Road, which is GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 107 1 already congested totally . And I just cannot 2 imagine throwing this number of vehicle trips on 3 that road . 4 And I ' m wondering why the shuttles can ' t be 5 paid for by the tourist tax and not ad valorem. 6 After all , you are not doing that for us , you ' re 7 doing it for the tourists . What I want to know is , 8 why we can ' t look more closely at remote parking 9 areas and using the shuttle service, have a shuttle 10 service like the Naples Trolley, which means it ' s a 11 beach trolley . And there ' s - - for instance, Sam' s . 12 Sam' s is usually half empty . It ' s more than half 13 empty, and it ' s so empty all of the time that they 14 have these great big car sales and they don' t have 15 an impact on the shoppers at Sam' s . So perhaps you 16 could lease some of theirs . 17 I ' ve - - I also want to know what the parking 18 situation is during the off season . As I said, 19 I ' ve never had a problem. What - - how many people 20 have a problem? Perhaps on a Saturday afternoon or 21 a Sunday afternoon, you might . I don ' t know . But 22 during the week in the off season, I have never 23 seen a problem down there . But again, perhaps I 'm 24 wrong . 25 As for the invisible accesses , the property GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 108 1 owners at Naples Park did a study . Actually, it 2 cost us $250 , and we had a - - I ' m trying to think 3 of the name right now . It ' s gone out of my head, 4 but a title company. We had a title search down 5 there and there were six accesses . Of course, the 6 previous county commission gave away a marvelous 7 access right to the south side of La Playa . They 8 simply vacated it for La Playa . But we used to go 9 down to the commission all the time and talk about 10 getting signs up . And the County Commission did 11 have the parks department put signs up showing 12 these six accesses . And every time they put them 13 up, the people who lived in the condos would go and 14 rip them down. And this went on and on . And we 15 were talking to Burt Saunders one time . He said, 16 why don' t you get some more signs up there? He 17 said, why don ' t you do something . You bought a 18 piece . What do you want me to do, sit there and 19 protect them? 20 What else did I want to say? I hate to see 21 cutting down more green space to put some more - - 22 as you know, I ' m a bird lover and the birds need 23 some trees too , you know . That area, the migrants 24 come through, it would be nice just to have a bird 25 to be able to sit in a tree . And I ' ve been sitting GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 109 1 here watching a logger head sitting in that palm 2 tree . But , as for the parking garage, no . 3 MR . SMITH : That ' s all the speakers we have . 4 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Okay . Thank you for your 5 input . 6 MS . SYNNE : May I ask a question? 7 CHAIRMAN GRICE : I need your name . 8 MS . SYNNE : Erica Synne . When they calculate 9 how much area a beach has , is that at high tide or 10 low tide? 11 MS . RAMSEY : That was high tide . 12 MS . SYNNE : You mean high tide? 13 MS . RAMSEY : Yes . 14 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Yes , sir . 15 MR . LYDON : One other quick comment . We had an 16 incident last week of code enforcement trying to 17 write a summons for a broken chair that was in 18 front of a hotel , and they tried to - - tried to 19 give the guy a ticket for having that broken chair 20 in there and feeding the turtles . We ' re faced at 21 Vanderbilt with a very serious problem at the north 22 end . Vanderbilt Inn has been kind enough to let 23 the tourists come through there , walking . But 24 still and all , if that situation goes on and, I 25 think it ' s going to be handled at the county level , GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 110 1 if it hasn ' t - - if Vanderbilt Inn cuts off public 2 access through their property to the beach, we 3 would have a serious problem at the north end of 4 Vanderbilt Beach . Please get that message along to 5 Michelle Arnold. 6 MS . RAMSEY : That was Dick Lydon . 7 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Where do we go from here , 8 Marla? 9 MS . RAMSEY : Up to you . It ' s your meeting. 10 CHAIRMAN GRICE : It ' s my meeting . 11 MS . RAMSEY : I completed my report . It ' s up 12 to you now . 13 CHAIRMAN GRICE : You completed your report , so 14 I assume we ' re supposed to take some action on 15 this . 16 MS . RAMSEY : You can accept the report as 17 given . 18 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Accept the report as given . 19 MR . FAY : Or you could accept it as I amended 20 it . 21 MS . RAMSEY : You can make comments about it . 22 MR . McMAHON : I would like to make comments . 23 My name is Chuck McMahon and I live in Golden Gate . 24 I have a family and we ' re very much users of the 25 parks , the beaches , and county facilities . I sat GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 111 1 here and listened to a lot of different things . I 2 took a couple notes . And some of the things are - - 3 you know, I grew up originally as a child in 4 Pennsylvania, and I used to visit the New Jersey 5 beaches . Shoulder to shoulder is what the beaches 6 were , and it was a hassle . It really was . So I 7 understand where you ' re talking about when you ' re 8 talking about the seven- foot by seven square foot 9 area . It ' s tight . 10 At the same token, I visited Vanderbilt Beach, 11 and I ' ve walked the total length of that beach in 12 maximum season . And there ' s hardly nobody ever 13 there . As big as that beach is , there is more than 14 enough room for everything and anybody in our 15 county . I have been there and I ' ve walked it and I 16 enjoy it . 17 I ' ve also experienced the fact that - - oh, 18 yes , I ' m not a tourist , I ' m a taxpayer in Collier 19 County and I need access to my beaches . Okay . I 20 do use beaches , as I said before . I use all of our 21 beaches . I use the City of Naples beaches , I use 22 the City of Marco beaches . I use every beach and 23 any beach that I can at any given time that ' s 24 available to me and any family and my friends and 25 tourists that are visiting me . I would like to GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 112 1 show my beaches off , because we have some of the 2 most beautiful beaches around . Vanderbilt Beach, 3 in actuality, coming up there on the extension, 4 I ' ve left Vanderbilt Beach because there was no 5 parking either in the lower parking area or up 6 around the circle . I ' ve come around that circle , 7 went around and down and come back up that circle 8 and actually went all the way down to Vanderbilt 9 and Wiggins Pass , came back, and I couldn ' t find a 10 parking spot . So we left and went to Barefoot , I 11 think, a couple of times . 12 So there ' s a lot of different stuff there 13 that , you know, I myself have experienced . One 14 thing that everybody really needs to understand and 15 pay attention to in Collier County, we are growing, 16 a major growing county . There is so much growth on 17 the north end of Naples in the area off of Airport 18 Road, going back, for heaven ' s sakes , I don ' t know 19 what ' s going to happen when Livingston opens up 20 because it ' s going to explode with more growth . 21 And we need to think about access for the growth . 22 And this is something that I really see that Parks 23 and Recreation is looking at . It ' s going to be 24 very important to have access for all members of 25 our county . And I just think that we need to all GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 113 1 look at that . And not - - you know, I know it ' s got 2 to be an inconvenience to some people that live in 3 that area, and we ' re all inconvenienced at 4 different times . And we have - - Marla has talked 5 to us before about another park in Golden Gate 6 where they are having to park on the back side , and 7 it ' s going from 951 down along the canals and all 8 that . And people are upset about that . There ' s 9 going to be people upset about everything we do, no 10 matter where we do it . And we ' ve just got to be 11 able to get through with these things and try to 12 make accesses for everybody . 13 If you have to bring a vehicle and a family 14 from your home to the beach, I mean, it ' s our 15 obligation to find parking spots for us , because , 16 if we don ' t, where do we go? And do I want to get 17 a ticket? No, I don ' t want to get a ticket for 18 parking where I don ' t belong . I need parking . And 19 I really see a need for parking garages and parking 20 spaces throughout our county, and not just here , 21 all over for our beaches . We are losing - - we are 22 losing access to our beaches every day, and we 23 don ' t need to do that . There are beaches 24 regardless of some of the businesses and the condo 25 associations and all that along the beach fronts . GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 114 1 They are still - - they are county beaches and we 2 need to be able to use them. 3 So I hope everybody can understand that kind 4 of a need that we have . Thank you . 5 MS . RAND : I have some comments . I have some 6 comments , and I did talk to Marla yesterday to kind 7 of give her my opinion . And I did do some outreach 8 in the community to try, as a member of the 9 advisory board, to know . I feel like - - I feel 10 like my role is to represent the community, to some 11 extent , you know, to try to understand . I ' ve heard 12 people on both sides of the deck issue , park and 13 deck at Vanderbilt Beach . And some people said, 14 you know, we need more parking because I can ' t find 15 a place to park . My thinking on it is that we need 16 to look at - - more comprehensively look at access 17 and to use - - to look at the entire beach front in 18 the county, long range , in terms of developing more 19 opportunities for access and to create a system to 20 do that . I know that it ' s a complicated thing to 21 get that together . But , say, right now - - because 22 I do think that trying to meet the overall county 23 needs too much in concentrated spots instead of 24 utilizing the whole beach front , I think some of 25 the things - - what I ' d like to see is , instead of GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 115 1 putting the money into building the deck now, to go 2 ahead and start a small scale shuttle service that 3 at least serves Conner Park to get people over to 4 Conner Park. You could expand that by picking up 5 some spaces at Sam' s , because I know that they 6 lease spaces now . And there may be - - and I don ' t 7 have solutions , but I think there may be 8 opportunities for leasing additional parking 9 farther inland to get - - because you cannot have a 10 shuttle unless you have the parking . They work 11 together . But you already have a need for the 12 shuttle to get people from Conner Park over to the 13 beach, because it is a long walk . But if you did 14 that and at the same time you arranged some 15 off- site parking, shared parking, at least you 16 tried that system out instead of putting all the 17 bucks into the one point . It seems to me it would 18 be a lot less money to do that , to get maybe two 19 shuttle stands , like the ones that are going to be 20 working for the - - I don ' t remember, but you said 21 you are going to van people somewhere . 22 MS . RAMSEY : Seagate . 23 MS . RAND : That can be part of the system. 24 The same van that is taking people at Seagate might 25 be able to go around and pick them up at another GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 116 1 park . 2 MS . RAMSEY : How much time do you want to 3 wait? 4 MS . RAND : Pardon? 5 MS . RAMSEY : How long do you want to wait for 6 a shuttle bus? 7 MS . RAND : I think fifteen minutes , because if 8 you are not finding a parking space, then you don' t 9 go to the beach and you ' re sitting probably longer 10 than that , going up to Lely . Sam' s . 11 Anyway, I think if you right now hold off on 12 the deck and try a system that utilizes the other 13 access points - - I know you said there was no 14 restroom facilities at the access points . That ' s 15 the problem. But there ' s no restroom at Seagate 16 now . And I know people can get in their car and 17 drive to the bathroom. But probably to get a 18 shuttle that would stop at least at the two secured 19 places that you have , and at least start that 20 system . Because it seems to me that putting it off 21 and doing something that the community doesn ' t - - 22 has a lot of resistance to and not just because of 23 the impact locally, because of the whole beach 24 experience that it ' s providing to the people county 25 wide that are going to be - - going to the beaches GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 117 1 at those points . It ' s not - - somebody in Golden 2 Gate going to the beach is going to have a better 3 experience if they can go to the beach and park and 4 if they have to go to get on a shuttle and go to a 5 beach where they don ' t have to step over people and 6 find a place to put their towel . 7 So I guess my feeling is just that I thought 8 we could try doing one deck to expand . But at this 9 point , if you look at the overall parking provided 10 at all the different access points , there ' s so many 11 underutilized access points that I just think, if 12 we got off-site parking through an arrangement to 13 get a shuttle and just maximize the other access 14 points , initially, I think we ' re going to have a 15 lot more net result in terms of getting people to 16 the beach . And, then again, we can expand that . 17 We can secure better access points , get a better 18 shuttle service, even get drop-off points that may 19 have restroom facilities , to build on the whole 20 system. Start with a system and then build it . 21 That ' s my thinking on it . 22 And the lady that said that the parking lots , 23 that Barefoot Beach is not full . If it ' s true that 24 it doesn ' t fill up , is there a need to expand that 25 parking lot? Because it is the biggest asset GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 118 1 there, is the green space and the preserve . 2 MR. OLESKY : I would like to make a little 3 comment on that . First of all , you probably have 4 to have at least four shuttles if you want them for 5 fifteen minutes apart . That ' s an added expense . 6 Then you would also have to pay Sam' s for their 7 parking lot . That ' s an added expense . If you 8 build a parking garage , you got it up front and, 9 after that , it ' s just a little maintenance on it . 10 You don ' t have this ongoing expense . That ' s all I 11 would like to say about that . 12 MS . RAND : True . 13 MS . RAMSEY : John, can I suggest to have the 14 staff look into contacting Sam' s and find out what 15 it ' s going to cost us to do shuttles , find out how 16 many drivers it takes , benefits , et cetera, et 17 cetera, look at the quality of the experience, 18 bring it back to you at your next meeting and have 19 you look at it? 20 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Yes . That ' s an excellent 21 idea . Also, I would like to see a traffic study 22 done at Vanderbilt Drive . I realize this is not 23 the time of year to do that , but even at this time 24 of year, there ' s still traffic going to the 25 beaches . GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 119 1 MS . RAMSEY : I ' ll check . 2 CHAIRMAN GRICE : It probably can be 3 interpolated with the data that you already have to 4 determine what the impacts would be during season 5 or around season . I don ' t know that we have any 6 less traffic in January than we do in March . I 7 know that on the roads there ' s less traffic , but 8 that ' s - - that ' s immaterial . We still have to 9 compensate for somewhat of our highest use . 10 I would also like for you to investigate, and 11 I guess I ' m making this in the form of a motion 12 while I ' m doing it , so as I don ' t have to repeat 13 it - - 14 MS . RAMSEY : Are you going to start over now? 15 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Yeah . I ' ll start over . 16 I would like for you to investigate with Sam' s 17 to see what that kind of activity would cost , as 18 well as perhaps - - and this , I don ' t know if it 19 will work with some of the - - perhaps some of the 20 shopping centers in the area that don' t fill up, as 21 well as Sam' s . Well , schools would be okay for the 22 weekends , but I don' t think schools would be 23 apropos for the weeks . I would like for you to 24 investigate the shuttles to see what they would 25 cost , what they would cost to run, what they cost GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 120 1 to have drivers for them, how many we have to have 2 to maintain drop-off points , as suggested, as far 3 north as Lely/Barefoot Beach and as far south as 4 Clam Pass . I believe that ' s what the - - all of the 5 range in between was mentioned . 6 MS . RAND : And the shuttle - - can I interrupt 7 your motion? 8 CHAIRMAN GRICE : No , please . I ' m going to let 9 you comment on it afterwards , if you don ' t mind . 10 I would like for you to do a traffic study at 11 Vanderbilt Drive and Gulf Shore Drive . I would 12 like for you to research the Gulf Shore Drive 13 access ownerships . 14 MS . RAMSEY : Can I ask a question? 15 CHAIRMAN GRICE : I have heard different 16 stories now, but I would still like to know - - 17 MS . RAMSEY : Are you going to put this all by 18 the next board meeting? 19 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Am I going to do what? 20 MS . RAMSEY : Is the time frame going to be by 21 the next board meeting? 22 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Well , yes . I think you 23 should be able to do it , because I ' m not going to 24 be here . 25 If it has to wait until August , then it has to GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 121 1 wait until August , but I think these are important . 2 I mean, the people have brought us some issues and 3 I don' t think that we need to stick our head in the 4 sand and not look at them as alternatives . I 5 also - - I ' m not sure what - - this is beside the 6 point . Let ' s just look at it - - how late do we 7 have to obtain those funds? 8 MS . RAMSEY : If I can remember now, the funds 9 that I have originally asked for and have asked for 10 over a two-year period, I asked for half of it in 11 this fiscal year and half of it in the next fiscal 12 year . So we really won ' t be building this until 13 after the next fiscal year . The reason I did that 14 is because it was a little less painful to the fund 15 itself and allows there to be a reserve available 16 to do some other things with it . But , you know, 17 hey, if we have to do it over three years , that ' s 18 possible too . But I think that they could probably 19 absorb it in a two-year period . 20 CHAIRMAN GRICE : I would still like for you to 21 go forward to get the funds , if you can . I don' t 22 know how much of a project you ' ve got to have to 23 draw it up and dried in concrete to establish that , 24 but I would still like for you to get the funds , 25 because we ' re definitely going to need them. No GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 122 1 matter which way we go, those funds are going to be 2 required . And that ' s the end of my motion . 3 Is there a second? 4 No second . 5 MS . RAND : I would like to add a question . If 6 you secure the funds , don' t they have to be used 7 for the purpose that you secured them? 8 MS . RAMSEY : If I secure the funds for the 9 parking garage , they are set aside in a project , if 10 we decide the project is different than what we 11 originally stated because we ' ve done some research 12 and design and traffic and whatever and talking to 13 the homeowner ' s associations , we can go back to TDC 14 and amend the project with their blessing . The 15 point is you get some of it sitting in the fund, at 16 least you have something to work with . And if we 17 have to do traffic counts and other things , I ' m 18 going to need some funding to do that , if it isn ' t 19 already available . 20 MS . RAND : But it has to be for a specific 21 capital project? You can ' t say for beach access 22 facilities and then use it for developing other 23 types of facilities? 24 MS . RAMSEY : I can ask that . I haven ' t 25 specifically asked that . I ' ve always asked for a GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 123 1 specific project . 2 Leo, do you have an opinion; Leo? 3 MR . OCHS : No . That ' s something we have to 4 ask the attorneys . They would have read that 5 ordinance and they can tell us exactly how far we 6 can go with the use of TDC funds . We ' ve asked that 7 question already . 8 CHAIRMAN GRICE : We just don' t have an answer 9 yet? 10 MR . OCHS : No answer back, right . 11 MS . RAND : The other thing, on the shuttle, 12 there is a possibility of having a private 13 concessionaire do that , so it wouldn ' t be just a 14 county expense . 15 CHAIRMAN GRICE : It doesn ' t matter who does 16 it , it ' s still an expense . Somebody ' s got to pay 17 for it . 18 MS . RAND : If you have a concessionaire , 19 aren ' t they basically just coming in and providing 20 service and collecting, you know, as a private 21 service? 22 MS . RAMSEY : I think that ' s something I ' ll 23 have to bring back to you at a future meeting . If 24 you say, here ' s what it is going to cost for the 25 county to do it - - I mean, I don ' t know that I GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 124 1 could get data by the next time and say, this is 2 what it would cost a concessionaire to do it and 3 how much would they charge to do that . I mean, 4 they wouldn' t do it for free . Would they charge 5 five dollars , and would you take a shuttle for $5 6 to the beach? I think you have got to look at the 7 whole process . Because, as a resident , you can go 8 and park for free, and so you can take the shuttle 9 for five dollars . I think those are things we need 10 to discuss and find out , because a concessionaire 11 is not going to do it for free , so he ' s going to 12 want to make a profit . If the county does it , you 13 probably are going to want to break even on it , 14 unless they are going to fund it . I don ' t know if 15 the board is going to fund, you know, supplementing 16 that aspect . I don ' t know . 17 MS . RAND : Isn' t it about five dollars to get 18 into Wiggins Pass for a carload of people? 19 MS . RAMSEY : I think it ' s like four . It ' s 20 like three or four . I think there ' s a level 21 according to how much - - it ' s a dollar to walk in, 22 so - - 23 CHAIRMAN GRICE : I made a motion and nobody 24 apparently liked it , since nobody seconded it . 25 Would somebody tell me what they would like to do GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 125 1 then? 2 MS . RAND : I would like to - - I don ' t remember 3 everything in your motion. 4 MR . McMAHON : Are we open for discussion on 5 your motion? 6 CHAIRMAN GRICE : No, because it ' s not 7 seconded . 8 MR . McMAHON: I ' ll second it so we can have 9 discussion . 10 MS . RAND : You have to make another motion . 11 CHAIRMAN GRICE : No . Now, the discussion . 12 It ' s been seconded . 13 MS . RAND : Okay . 14 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Now we can have discussion on 15 it . Now, what would you like to say about it? 16 MS . RAND : The thing that I would like to add 17 would be to look into - - rather than just secure 18 the funds , to look into if funds can be used for 19 another purpose too, you know, for a more general 20 purpose for beach access . 21 CHAIRMAN GRICE : It ' s been amended to 22 include - - they would like to amend it to include 23 researching whether TDC funds can be altered in 24 their use without having to go through the whole 25 process again. GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 126 1 MS . RAND : And, if so, then the request or the 2 grant , however you put it together, that it be done 3 in such a way that you can use it for other 4 alternatives . 5 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Yes . You had questions , I 6 know . Did you have questions? 7 MR . OLESKY : I got one question . Can you give 8 me an approximate figure of how much all of this is 9 going to cost? 10 MS . RAMSEY : Can I off the top of my head? 11 MR . OLESKY : Right . 12 MS . RAMSEY : No, I can ' t possibly . 13 MR . OLESKY : Are we talking about half a 14 million dollars to do all of these studies? 15 MS . RAMSEY : No . I don ' t think it ' s going to 16 cost me a half a million to do that . It ' s going to 17 take some time to do that . I ' m going to have to 18 figure out - - because what I ' m hearing you asking 19 me to do is to provide a shuttle to Clam Pass , to 20 Vanderbilt , to the accesses , to Barefoot . So I ' m 21 hearing shuttling to maybe four different 22 locations . There ' s no way I can possibly do that 23 on one shuttle . I would have to do that at all 24 different locations . 25 MS . RAND : I don' t think you need to get to GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 127 1 Lely, because that ' s underutilized as it is . 2 There ' s probably parking available there . 3 MR . McMAHON : Not really. 4 CHAIRMAN GRICE : There ' s a motion and a 5 second . 6 MR . McMAHON : Not really . 7 CHAIRMAN GRICE : She ' s going to have Leo out 8 here . 9 MR . McMAHON : Lely is jammed . Man, there ' s 10 people parking on the side of the road in Lely . 11 MS . RAND : The one up at Bonita Beach, not at 12 the end, though. 13 MR . McMAHON : All over . 14 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Not at the end . 15 MR . McMAHON : I haven ' t been able to find any . 16 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Do you have any other 17 questions or concerns or would you like to make 18 comments? 19 MR . McMAHON : No . Go ahead . 20 CHAIRMAN GRICE : You apparently didn ' t like 21 the way it was originally done . 22 MR . McMAHON : It has to be done . And I 23 noticed that the study part of it needs to be done, 24 as far as the traffic and all that . And there are 25 certain things that need to be studied . So I still GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 128 1 feel that we need parking, and that ' s a prime 2 location for parking . So I really want to look 3 into that a little bit more than what we are 4 talking about . 5 MR . OLESKY: I don ' t mind looking into 6 something. I think some of the stuff you stated is 7 too much . 8 CHAIRMAN GRICE : For instance? 9 MR . OLESKY : I don' t know . You want to do a 10 parking or a road study with cars . I can 11 understand something like that . It ' s going to cost 12 you a fortune for these shuttles . I can tell you 13 right now. 14 CHAIRMAN GRICE : What ' s your other concern, 15 Ski? Are you concerned about the researching - - 16 MR . OLESKY : I think wasting time and their 17 time , the time they' ve already put into it , by 18 going over and doing all this other stuff again. I 19 think it is a waste of time, personally . 20 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Okay . So you would just like 21 to see them go ahead and go for the money and go 22 build the garage? 23 MR . OLESKY : Right . 24 CHAIRMAN GRICE : That ' s not the motion . 25 MR . OLESKY : I understand that . GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 129 1 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Any other discussion? 2 MR. WELBORN : I don ' t think shuttles are going 3 to be the answer . Too complicated . Too much 4 involved . 5 CHAIRMAN GRICE : I agree . 6 MR . WELBORN : Maybe from a small standpoint . 7 From the overall project , I think shuttles is going 8 to be a waste of time . It ' s going to cost too much 9 and going to be too much delay in the shuttles . 10 MR . McMAHON : I don ' t have five dollars to pay 11 for a shuttle from Sam' s to the beach, let alone 12 would I wait another thirty to forty minutes to get 13 to the beach? I have a car and I have a permit to 14 park on the beach, and I should have access to my 15 beaches . And this is all - - shuttles are crazy. 16 CHAIRMAN GRICE : I agree with you . 17 MR . McMAHON : If you ' re talking about a 18 shuttle maybe from Clam Pass that ' s a quick trolley 19 type shuttle , that ' s one thing . But going to Sam' s 20 and asking the grocery store areas - - I mean, 21 that ' s crazy stuff . They are not there for parking 22 for us , they are there for parking for business , 23 number one . I think that shuttle stuff is not 24 proper . I don ' t think that ' s what we should ask 25 our residents to have to do . GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 130 1 MS . RAND : That happened in Lee County . 2 MR . McMAHON: Lee County is - - maybe in the 3 future we ' ll have to go that way . 4 MS . RAND : They have a lot of beach access . 5 MR . McMAHON : Where? 6 MS . RAND : All up and down Hickory Boulevard . 7 MR. McMAHON: The thing is , we ' re not Lee 8 County, we ' re Collier County . 9 MR . OLESKY : Compare their parks to ours and 10 you see why we are Collier County . 11 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Did someone want to amend my 12 motion? 13 MS . RAMSEY : Why don' t you take a vote on it 14 then? 15 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Those in favor of that motion 16 say aye . 17 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Aye . 18 MS . RAND : Aye . 19 MS . BARNETT : Aye . 20 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Those opposed? 21 MR . OLESKY : Aye . 22 MR . WELBORN : Aye . 23 MR . McMAHON : Aye . 24 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Okay . So it doesn ' t pass . 25 MS . RAMSEY : Anybody else have a motion? GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 131 1 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Now I need to have another 2 motion . 3 MR . McMAHON: I would like to make a motion 4 that we go forward with securing the funds for 5 parking facilities at our beach accesses , not 6 necessarily a parking garage but parking 7 facilities , as you said you were going to look and 8 see if we can do . I think we really need to look 9 at how we ' re going to park . I also believe that 10 you do need to look at the traffic at Vanderbilt , 11 if that ' s one of the areas that we ' re actually 12 looking for a parking garage . But if we ' re going 13 to go for funds that we ' ve got to put in for, let ' s 14 go for the funds first and then find the proper 15 location . If the traffic is not right , then we 16 have to move , but at least now we have the funds . 17 And I think it ' s that simple . So that ' s my motion . 18 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Is there a second? 19 MS . RAND : Your motion is to go ahead and 20 secure the funds but to do some traffic study 21 investigation? 22 MR . McMAHON: Traffic study on location and 23 parking locations . 24 MS . RAND : Looking at alternative locations ; 25 is that what you ' re talking about? GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 132 1 MR . McMAHON: If need be . 2 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Is there a second to that 3 motion? 4 MR . OLESKY : I ' ll second . 5 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Any other discussion on it? 6 MS . RAND : The only thing I would want to add 7 to that would be to see if it ' s a possibility of 8 going for the funds in such a way that you ' re not 9 tied down to using it for that specific - - 10 CHAIRMAN GRICE : He already said that . 11 MS . RAND : Is that part of your motion? 12 MR . McMAHON: Yes . 13 MS . RAMSEY : Not to exclude it . 14 MR . McMAHON : Not to exclude it , by no means . 15 MS . RAND : To get the funds secured in such a 16 way that you can look at alternatives , you can do 17 the study. 18 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Okay . 19 MS . RAND : I second that . 20 CHAIRMAN GRICE : It ' s already been seconded . 21 We ' re discussing . 22 Sam, you got anything to say about that? 23 MR . WELBORN : No . 24 CHAIRMAN GRICE : You are for it , too . 25 How about you, Ski? GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 133 1 MR . OLESKY : No, that ' s fine . 2 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Any more discussion? 3 Call for a vote . 4 Those in favor of Charlie ' s motion say aye . 5 Those opposed? 6 (No response . ) 7 CHAIRMAN GRICE : It ' s unanimous . Okay . 8 MS . RAMSEY : Can I ask one more thing? 9 Do you like the report? 10 CHAIRMAN GRICE : I think your report is great . 11 MS . RAMSEY: Do you want to make it a motion 12 to accept it or - - usually that ' s what we do, to 13 accept the report as written . 14 CHAIRMAN GRICE : I would like to make a motion 15 that we accept your report and use that as actually 16 guidelines for exactly what we are looking for, for 17 funds for parking, because it ' s great guidelines 18 for beach and boat access , so it ' s all 19 comprehensive . 20 MR . OLESKY: I second . 21 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Motion seconded by Ski . 22 MS . RAND : Can we discuss the motion? 23 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Sure . 24 MS . RAND : What does accepting the report 25 mean? Does it mean that we ' re endorsing all the GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 134 1 elements in it? 2 MS . JOHNSON : Endorsing the elements , that the 3 report basically meets what you have been thinking 4 about and what you are interested in having us 5 pursue . 6 MR . WELBORN : It ' s the guidelines for the next 7 two or three years . 8 MS . RAMSEY: Our five-year plan . 9 MS . RAND : I already - - my - - I guess I 10 already stated my feelings . I think all of the 11 other elements are in - - I really like all the 12 other components . It ' s just that I think that one 13 element is the thing I have an objection to . I 14 guess that means I can ' t vote on your motion then . 15 CHAIRMAN GRICE : It ' s up to you . 16 MS . RAND : Does voting on accepting the report 17 mean I ' m accepting everything in it? 18 CHAIRMAN GRICE : You can sustain and you can 19 say no either way . 20 MS . RAND : Right . I ' m just clarifying what my 21 vote would be . 22 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Any other comments? 23 Questions? Discussion? 24 Those in favor of accepting the report - - and 25 there was a caveat . GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 135 1 MS . RAMSEY : No , there wasn ' t . 2 CHAIRMAN GRICE : There wasn ' t a caveat, just 3 accepting the report . 4 Those in favor say aye . 5 MR . OLESKY : Aye . 6 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Aye . 7 MR . McMAHON: Aye . 8 MR . WELBORN: Aye . 9 MS . BARNETT : Aye . 10 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Those opposed? 11 MS . RAND : Aye . 12 CHAIRMAN GRICE : One opposed, four ayes to 13 approve . 14 Anything else you need? 15 MS . RAMSEY : I ' m satisfied . I know my 16 direction. 17 CHAIRMAN GRICE : I still want to find out who 18 actually owns those . I know that that ' s not part 19 of the motion. I would still like to find out who 20 owns those pieces of property . 21 MS . RAMSEY : That ' s on my agenda . I don' t 22 need a motion for you to go ahead and do that . 23 CHAIRMAN GRICE : I think it should be settled 24 once and for all so that we are not battling with 25 homeowners or associations or anything else . GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 136 1 MS . RAMSEY: It will be addressed when I talk 2 about making improvements to the accesses , in order 3 to do that , the shuttle or whatever we want to do, 4 and, even if it ' s just making more access , we need 5 to make improvements to those accesses , and so we 6 are already researching it . And I know Joe has a 7 plat map over there and he can show it to you when 8 we ' re done . Basically it says that it ' s designated 9 to the public, or something to that effect , and 10 there ' s a gray area in there because the people in 11 the neighborhood are saying it ' s just for our 12 neighborhood and - - 13 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Well , that ' s a possibility . 14 It could be deeded access to that community . 15 MS . RAMSEY : To the whole county . So, you 16 know, and if those three are not available , we can 17 only find one other access point , south of La Playa . 18 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Maybe the other one is still 19 hidden . 20 MS . RAMSEY : I could see it if a condominium 21 was built over it . 22 CHAIRMAN GRICE : That ought to be fun . Okay, 23 then we ' ll just condemn the condominium. Look at 24 how big our access is going to be now? 25 MS . RAMSEY : Are you adjourning? GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 137 1 CHAIRMAN GRICE : Any other business before the 2 board this afternoon? 3 Adjourned . 4 (Meeting adjourned at 7 : 05 p .m) 5 6 7 * * * * * * * * * * 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA 138 1 COURT REPORTER ' S CERTIFICATE 2 3 STATE OF FLORIDA 4 COUNTY OF COLLIER 5 6 7 8 I , ELIZABETH M . BROOKS , Registered 9 Professional Reporter, certify that I was 10 authorized to and did stenographically report the 11 foregoing proceedings and that the transcript is a 12 true and complete record of my stenographic notes . 13 14 DATED this 6th day of March, 1998 . 15 16 17 184- --- -- — — - - - 19 EL • ZABE ' M . BROOKS 20 Notary Public 21 State of Florida 22 My Commission No . CC 658403 23 Expires : June 24 , 2001 24 25 GREGORY COURT REPORTING NAPLES/FT . MYERS/BONITA